balance-feedback-discussion

[wise sparrow]

Isn't it like super complete?

[spare badger]

Yes
But the fact it was complete had nothing to do with my argument

Because we have 1 carno specimen we don't have any with injuries that could tell us how/what it hunted
For example Allosaurus has a lot of specimens that are injured so we know what it hunted/interacted with

But that has no relevancy to the game itself

[wise sparrow]

Allo seemed like an animal that was super durable and made it everyone else's problem

[spare badger]

We also have things like onchapristis barbs in spino's jaw and stuff
Unfortunately we have none of that for carno so we don't really know much about it's environment

I really wanna know how they are gonna balance carno around bary and cerato

[fair scaffold]

Allo seemed like a mf who just heals quick yk. Hope they keep that in evrima.

[wise sparrow]

@fair scaffold what if a carno just stays near a teno for a while, debuffs it, and has it's friend run in and kill the teno while the teno cant do anything about it

[sinful cove]

Oh boyo another abusable stress mechanic suggestion

[fair scaffold]

Ur right maybe there is no way to fix mixpacking besides server admins being active

[wise sparrow]

If you want to see how abuseable stress is just look at Beasts of Bermuda and its "necro bombing" or "intim hunting"

[fair scaffold]

But I was thinking the mechanic would be about 5-10 minutes and above before stress happened.

Hopefully the teno player could either run or hit the carno to get rid of it. But as a teno main, running from carnos is basically a suicide strat

[wise sparrow]

Still. If it takes that long to kick in it won't stop mix packing. And that whole damage refreshing the timer thing is abuseable as well. Just bite the carno as a teno and boom the carno only takes 20 damage and they continue mixpacking

[fair scaffold]

I was hoping the damage would have to be a certain attack as a Dino. As a teno a tail slam or kick. As a pachy a ram. As a carno about a head bites worth of dmg. You get the idea?

A certain attack or damage value*

[wise sparrow]

Okay? So the attacker just has to avoid heavy shots and gets to debuff the teno

[fair scaffold]

Ur right about that. I didn’t think about dinos like carno (the main perpetrator of mixpacking in my experience) being able to follow dinos as they run away.

[weary idol]

I vote that the Teno explodes into a pile of gore, taking the Carno with it as Dondi's voice booms across the sky. "No mix-packing!"

I will agree that it is highly frustrating but I think one of the QA guys hit the nail on the head that players simply don't have enough to do. As the game becomes more well-rounded the problem wont be entirely fixed, but it will probably be better.

Thus, while different species may still roll together on occasion they at least wont be killing everyone they see as their main objective as often.

[spare badger]

I really want an anti mixpacking mechanic, I've proposed one in the past
But they are all so abusable

[weary idol]

I do too! But, alas you are correct. It seems that quite a few things are dashed once the human element is introduced.

[spare badger]

Unfortunately it will never come to pass. Perhaps proper niches and diets could alleviate the problem but I doubt it

[weary idol]

I have faith that it will. It's easy to doubt when you've been jaded about something that's clearly an issue but some things are difficult to address until the full product is complete so that you can see how changes and tweaks might impact other aspects of what you've made.

[spare badger]

I agree with them
It's essentially Impossible to properly solve because we aren't actually the animals in game

[weary idol]

If you look through various scientific articles one can come to a much more mixed conclusion. Immediate, quick kills were likely made on smaller animals while larger ones were essentially either bled out or worn down by continuous low-risk harassment. Carno was fast. Nobody will disagree with that. However fast can mean that you hunt fast prey in addition to escaping from and wearing down larger prey.

Interestingly enough, as this translates into gameplay you still have an animal mainly targeting prey smaller than it was (smaller being highly generalized here) with dinosaurs like Teno and Pachy being on the higher end of 'smaller' things it hunts to the point of it becoming a high-risk interaction. Changes have been made to Pachy (as previously mentioned) so hopefully that helps out quite a bit in addition to the tweaks made to Carno mechanics.

Pachy having a slower turn now means that the continued harassment mentioned earlier is possible.

Right now, we just don't have the animals nor the bleed for Carno needed for it to realistically hunt massive animals. In addition to this, larger dinosaurs like Allosaurus will eventually come to fill that niche. Perhaps however, instead of controlling Carnotaurus population by having them kill one another, one could change it that it and Allosaurus compete for the same high-reward food sources once Allosaurus is implemented.

(It's been a few seconds since I posted this so I'm already highly skeptical you've read much of what I typed since you've started your response but instead immediately prepared a counter-argument without reading much of what I've said. It's happened so often now that I'm a little jaded about it that this point but please prove me wrong about this assumption lol )

[ripe furnace]

While carnotaurus was specialized for running, I don’t think you should liken it to a cheetah as if it was a glass canon, which is far from what the animal was. While it would be smart to suggest it should go after smaller prey, it should still be taken into account that carnotaurus is a 2 ton super predator. In my personal opinion, it should have no problem dealing with the likeness of the entire small tier roster. This includes pachycephalosaurus and sometimes tenontosaurus.

But even then this is mostly drawn to my opinion anyway

And to be honest I don’t think carnotaurus had the teeth to give it a good blood related advantage.

[wise sparrow]

So what pachy and teno are supposed to be carno fodder?

[spare badger]

Not fodder
Just prey

[ripe furnace]

Yeah it’s a thick line

I don’t think they should destroyed

[weary idol]

At least you're willing to say that it's based more around your opinion. Even so, I think you're more or less on the same page I am without realizing it. Cheetahs prey on gazelles, but during the gnu migrations they will take on gnu as well- but given the choice they'll pick the easier prey item as it is a much lower risk to them as predators.

[ripe furnace]

Yes but cheetahs are weak. I am trying to say that just because the animal was super fast, doesn’t mean the animal would be weak.

[spare badger]

No
Pachy and teno should defeat carno if they see it coming
Pachy break and run
Teno just demolish

If it gets a charge off it should be at a big advantage imo
That's what carno is designed to do

[ripe furnace]

It’s just not a safe comparison to me

[ripe furnace]

Break and run is lame

[weary idol]

Gnu are not weak, and neither are cheetahs. lol

[ripe furnace]

Cheetahs are very weak

[spare badger]

Cheetahs are very weak

[spare badger]

It's the playstlye though

[ripe furnace]

And gnus are significantly bigger than the cheetahs anyway. They need atleast 3 to take it down

[spare badger]

Cheetahs get bodied by everything

[wise sparrow]

Break and run is fine as long as that's not pachy's ONLY option. If the carno sucks, got leg fractured, and has more than 1 pachy on it. It shouldn't survive that

[weary idol]

Okay. So, at this point it's picking apart the wording I've used rather than looking at my actual proposal.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Christ.

[wise sparrow]

A bad carno shouldn't be immune to a pachy because haha break and run

Wtf are gnus?

[ripe furnace]

Yeah but pachy fractured way to easily. And carno just becomes it’s son.

[weary idol]

WIldabeast.

[wise sparrow]

Wait so what's the argument here? I'm confused?

[ripe furnace]

My idea diverges with yours in the form of the animal behavior. A cheetah might attack something like a gun if it’s desperate while as I think a carno would attack thinks just below it’s size regularly.

I think it needs a lot more respect for the animal that it was

Because it seems like everyone thinks of it as a one trick pony

[weary idol]

So, what you're saying is that you disagree with nothing I've proposed but you're just angry about the wording because you use biased terminology for your super predator.

Got it.

[wise sparrow]

Wait so are we arguing about weather or not carno should be really strong?

[ripe furnace]

I don’t understand what you really want me to say. I thought our ideas were pretty different.

And I wouldn’t consider it a bias if you look at the animal itself. It’s not only built for running. It’s kind of tanky in a way.

Maybe I am getting too off track I don’t know

[wise sparrow]

That's... debatable. Carno was tanky compared to others in its environment but things like teno would have proven quite the problem

[ripe furnace]

What makes you say that

[wise sparrow]

Carno was adapted to hunt animals smaller than it. It likely grabbed smaller animals and thrashed them. A teno can not get grabbed by a carno, and carno couldn't charge in reality. Carno was an apex on the secluded island it lived on but anywhere else it would get dogged on

[spare badger]

Abelisaurids in general were bulky for carnivore standards

[wise sparrow]

Isn't carno quite an outlier though? Its legs, its jaw, its overall build was quite different from its cousins right?

[ripe furnace]

Maybe dogged on by the likes of allosaurus but other than that I don’t really see it. It had a pretty okay bite fore so it could still use its thick neck and head to maul things

[spare badger]

That is true, but compared to its cousins it is even bulkier. A carno scaled to Allo size would be much heavier

[wise sparrow]

Yes but the carno would have to get its jaw around prey first. A teno wouldn't let that happen before showing the carno the pearly gates

[ripe furnace]

That’s true teno is kind of that guy

[spare badger]

Carno shouldn't be good at fighting in my opinion.
Bary on the other hand...

[ripe furnace]

It doesn’t seem mean enough in game personally

[ripe furnace]

Why not

[wise sparrow]

And besides. Imagine bulky, strong, fast, grappling, carno in this game. It would literally invalidate literally anything smaller than it

[spare badger]

It's designed for speed, so it shouldn't also be a brawler at the same time

It would invalidate Cerato and Bary

So it shouldn't be good at that

A slow bite speed and mediocre damage makes my point clear

[wise sparrow]

If we have jp utah then it shouldn't be a stretch to imagine carno getting a tad weaker so the game is playable

[spare badger]

Apolloraptor

[fresh laurel]

Irl ootah comin

[wise sparrow]

If irl utah gets the playstyle I think it will I will main the fuck out of it

[fresh laurel]

Then it becomes cera but faster which would make cera just die

[fresh laurel]

Brawler?

Either way im maining irl ootah

[ripe furnace]

Cera should have it’s own set of things that can help it defend itself

[spare badger]

Cera should do a lot of damage, so should bary

[fresh laurel]

But you shouldnt have to change a dino completely just because of carno taking its job

[fresh laurel]

Gonna main cera, bary and irl ootah ngl

[ripe furnace]

Well who’s to say that carno should take a hit for ceras sake? They could still operate differently with carno being a brawler type

[wise sparrow]

No. A solitary ambush forest dweller that jumps small prey and performs RPR. And you have to keep your balance while they prey tries to kick you off. It could mimic ambient birds to communicate with another utah, and would basically be the top predator of the jungle second only to cera who would kick its shit in

[ripe furnace]

I’m not gonna act like this couldn’t defend itself

[fresh laurel]

But why would they want a brawler thats the fastest thing in the game with high dmg stats with grappling

[spare badger]

There is no reason Carno should be a brawler
It's designed to be a fast ambush hunter that hunts things smaller than itself
Very much not a brawler

[fresh laurel]

Thats pretty scary and cool ngl

[ripe furnace]

I think it’s whole grappling thing shouldn’t be a whole damage thing

[wise sparrow]

You're literally asking for early qa carno with even stronger stats and a grapple. That sounds kinda biased imo

[fresh laurel]

Makes me see how crazy big rex is

[ripe furnace]

Update 3 carno is like kind of what I’m talking about

[wise sparrow]

Update 3 carno was busted as fuck and should never happen again

[fresh laurel]

That was broken

It denied utah and teno as a whole

[ripe furnace]

Why do you say that

[fresh laurel]

I even seen them kill stego

[spare badger]

That was fucking op as shit and will never happen again
It's pretty clear that's not how carno is supposed to be designed

[ripe furnace]

What about it made it op

[spare badger]

Did you even play U3 with anything besides carno???

[fresh laurel]

Tured too fast and could run you down and great dmg

Too op

[eager nest]

I was agreeing with you kinda till u said this xd

[fresh laurel]

You couldnt run away

[wise sparrow]

Literally fucking everything. Its dps, its health, its turning, its stamina, everything

[spare badger]

It was Carnorex at the max

[ripe furnace]

Yes I played Utah a lot. I don’t think it’s stamina and turning should remain. But it’s base stats were cool

[fresh laurel]

It was a bigger utah

Like seesh

[spare badger]

Base stats were way too good
Carno is in a good spot now

[wise sparrow]

So you were okay with carno face tanking a teno?

[ripe furnace]

It already does that

[fresh laurel]

Broken and that would cause the real brawlers like cera need very inflated stats

[spare badger]

[fresh laurel]

Someone tell him...

[ripe furnace]

Just give cera some good defense I suppose.

[spare badger]

Other way around mate

[ripe furnace]

If you don’t include tailslam

[fresh laurel]

Why would teno only bite

[spare badger]

Yes just don't include tenos good move

[ripe furnace]

Claws

[wise sparrow]

The carno we have now is quite literally the most balanced I've ever seen an apex dinosaur in a game so far. The only changes it needs are qol changes

[spare badger]

It's true

And it's getting the QOL walking turn fix and acceleration fix

[ripe furnace]

Fat carno thoughts anyone

[fresh laurel]

Thats like saying rex loses against giga in face tank if rex doesnt bite

[fresh laurel]

Looks funky

[fresh laurel]

Im actually happy for carno there

[wise sparrow]

Trike loses a face tank against a rex if the trikes only bites

[ripe furnace]

Remove tailslam cc and everything is good

[spare badger]

That's all carno needs
Carno is really well balanced now

[ripe furnace]

Trike bite op

[fresh laurel]

Utah is actually really balanced too if we had a ecosystem not full of dinos that counter it

Utah would be pretty op if we brought lets say trike

Due to being made to fight carno and stuff

[spare badger]

Lmao just remove tail slam why don't you

[wise sparrow]

Bruh. That's the entire point of tail slam

[spare badger]

Remove teno while youre at it

[ripe furnace]

When I say CC I mean infinite stun

[wise sparrow]

This is like some frosty level balance here

[spare badger]

That DOESN'T EXIST

[wise sparrow]

It's not infinite

[ripe furnace]

Kind of does it can spam

[fresh laurel]

Guess teno becomes dryo food at that point

[ripe furnace]

It takes about 5 to kill a carno and the carno can’t really move

[ripe furnace]

It’s claws and kick are competent

[spare badger]

No
Stun lasts a set amount if time every time and carno gets stun immunity

[fresh laurel]

So you want to remove slam because it can kill carno in a face tank?

[ripe furnace]

I’ve seen too many carnos die that way to believe you

[spare badger]

"headshots

[wise sparrow]

Teno can really only get 3 slams off if the carno doesn't sit there and take it

[spare badger]

That's not how that works
That's just cause teno got 5 headshots
Not cause it gets stunlocked lmaoo

[fresh laurel]

I guess dysync might play a role in this

[spare badger]

Trust me dude I main teno I know how the stun works

[ripe furnace]

If it can’t be avoided then it’s OP

[fresh laurel]

Sadly one slam is gg on utah

[ripe furnace]

I don’t see why everything shouldn’t be able to move under the slam

I wonder what herbi comes next that isn’t complete garbage

[fresh laurel]

Dont think slam will stun a giga

[wise sparrow]

If you are getting stun locked by teno then you are literally just sitting there and waiting to get stuned again

[spare badger]

That's if the teno is super skilled and the carno is stupid
It rarely happens

[fresh laurel]

Pfft pachy, teno and stego are gods

[ripe furnace]

Alt left click isn’t skill

[ripe furnace]

I’m reffering to anything like magy

[wise sparrow]

And spam biting and refusing to dodge isn't skill either

[fresh laurel]

We dont talk about magy... no no no!

[spare badger]

You gotta hit the headshot on the first hit while the carno is moving
That's the only way to kill it in one stun and it rarely works

[ripe furnace]

But it shouldn’t be able to do that anyway

[spare badger]

I agree doesn't mean you should remove the stun lmao

Just shorten it by half a second

[fresh laurel]

Only nerf teno should get with its confirmed buffs are more tail slam endlag imo

[wise sparrow]

Guys teno needs nerfs!, my big apex cant insta kill it with no effort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fresh laurel]

Just play funni giga

[wise sparrow]

This

[fresh laurel]

I would say giga is the best hunter apex

Rex made for big game kills

[spare badger]

It doesn't even need more endlag just a very slightly shorter stun

[calm ibex]

i do think that teno should be reduced to its IRL weight though, its bullshit that this animal got such significant upsize, like what stops other animals from getting similar treatment

[spare badger]

How big is teno irl?

[ripe furnace]

I say shorten it by an entire second since it’s kick gets a stun and bleed too

[spare badger]

That's not necessary

[fresh laurel]

Make it short enough to land at least one more hit perhaps?

[spare badger]

Tail slam still is tenos heavy hitter move

[spare badger]

One *less hit

It's as simple as that

[ripe furnace]

Stun nerf is perfectly reasonable

[fresh laurel]

Upsize utah to carno size ez

[fresh laurel]

I said one more as in when you land the stun you can hit one more then they can manage to get up

[spare badger]

Can't teno go up to 2 tons tho

[wise sparrow]

Okay blunt. Explain how carno vs teno should go exactly

[ripe furnace]

60/40 carno

[spare badger]

[ripe furnace]

Teno has a lot of options to make it fair game so maybe 50/50

[fresh laurel]

How should 8 utahs vs carno go

[spare badger]

Teno definitely should win

[wise sparrow]

60/40 in carno's favor

[ripe furnace]

Die

[spare badger]

Lmaoooo

[fresh laurel]

Who dies

[ripe furnace]

Carno

[fresh laurel]

Phew

[weary idol]

What if I told you the balance is fine as it is and the diet system for Carno just needs a slight TLC. You could even keep Teno and Pachy on there, but give it better alternatives and make predation of Teno the act of no other options being available.

[sinful cove]

Yo what did i walk in to here

[fresh laurel]

For a second i thought you fallen down hill

[spare badger]

Carnage

[sinful cove]

Jesus christ

This guy is insane

[wise sparrow]

Carno simping

[fresh laurel]

Teno should die to carno in a face tank -MrBlunt

[spare badger]

HEY GUYS LETS HAVE THE SMALL GAME AMBUSH HUNTER KILL THE BRAWLER 60/40 !1!1!1!1

[sinful cove]

I recognize that name from somewhere actually i…

He was the guy who wanted stego to not be able to sprint right

[fresh laurel]

Yup

[sinful cove]

Yoooooooo

[wise sparrow]

[sinful cove]

He also wanted utah to be slower right

[spare badger]

[fresh laurel]

Didnt he also say he wanted utah speed and turn nerfs?

[sinful cove]

Yeeaah lmao

[fresh laurel]

[calm ibex]

i also want sprint removed from stego 🙂 its never going to run away from anything in its life and as such sprint only encourages agressive behavior whilst the animal itself is defensive by nature

[wise sparrow]

Okay so basically nerf everything EXCEPT carno. Perfect

[spare badger]

I'm convinced that MrBlunt is actually just a troll account

[sinful cove]

Now he wants carno to have a 60% advantage on a slower animal in the same tier? Yikes

[ripe furnace]

Yes

Look at that body 🥸

[fresh laurel]

If stego cant run then my giga gonna have max nutrients

[sinful cove]

Simple balance logic that the one controlling the confrontation should not also have the melee advantage

[fresh laurel]

Eats his veggis

[ripe furnace]

Stego needs op health and defense with low speed

[sinful cove]

Stego already has that

[ripe furnace]

Everybody tried to burn me at the stake for saying this but idc

[fresh laurel]

dies to trike

[calm ibex]

stego has to fight apexes regardless

[ripe furnace]

It runs kinda fast

[ripe furnace]

Trike should fear the spike too

[sinful cove]

LOL

[wise sparrow]

Stego is a glass cannon compared to the other apexes. Truke is the defensive one

[ripe furnace]

Irl stego couldn’t run at all because of its leg shape

[fresh laurel]

Armor head with horns vs armor tail that you could just aim for head

[sinful cove]

In what world? It can run down a… fat deino on land and a juvie pachy? That's fast i guess?

[ripe furnace]

It only walked really aggressively

[ripe furnace]

Still a bone and flesh head. Stego thagomizers would rip tear and crush

[fresh laurel]

Not juvie pachy since thats confirmed for speed buff

[sinful cove]

True

[ripe furnace]

If trike got hit in the head with a stego full swing it would be injured severely

[sinful cove]

So the only thing it might be running down is a dumb ass deino that is vacationing on the middle of a field

[fresh laurel]

If stego got hit by trike anywhere then stego dies bruv

Irl

[ripe furnace]

Add precise movement

[wise sparrow]

There's nothing really vital in its frill so actually it wouldn't

[fresh laurel]

This aint pot ahhhh

[ripe furnace]

Eyes, face mouth and stuff

Pain pain

Broken jaws

[wise sparrow]

Okay? Simply tilt its head so only the frill gets hit

[fresh laurel]

Pretty sure mouth is not a good target and eyes are small targets

[wise sparrow]

Trike had INSANE neck movement

[fresh laurel]

Compared to stego sides... or front or underbelly

[ripe furnace]

Eyes still exposed and the stego tail isn’t exactly stiff it can get around

[fresh laurel]

More than toys these days

[ripe furnace]

Anything getting hit by those thsgomizers will get demolished

[fresh laurel]

Trike head could take a hit unlike stego

[ripe furnace]

It has jaws to break and eyes to blind

You underestimate stego power

[wise sparrow]

Stego should be relatively swift when compared to other apex herbivores. Trike being the slowest, followed by anky.

[ripe furnace]

Same goes for Anky it’s the same basis

Okay but it’s running amok needs to change

[fresh laurel]

You underestimate trikes head durability and ability to dodge severe head hits

[wise sparrow]

If you are getting run down by a stego I think you need to repeat kindergarten

[sinful cove]

What is stego chasing down successfully? AFKers?

[ripe furnace]

Those 3 foot long thagomizers could crush the skull of a trike. Also, trike couldn’t even charge effectively without breaking its horns and nose

It’s on YouTube check it out

Been tested all that nice stuff

[wise sparrow]

Pfffft

[fresh laurel]

You keep forgetting to mention trike horns

Trike horns arent toys lmao

[ripe furnace]

What about them they’re on the front of its head not the sides

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes trike couldn't use its horns to fight. They would crack if it charged

[fresh laurel]

Trike head is durable while being a weapon

[ripe furnace]

It used its horns to fight but a full on charge would blast its face it wasn’t made for charging

[spare badger]

Imo anky should be slower
Anky can only be harmed by a rex ambush

[fresh laurel]

Rhino moment

[sinful cove]

Carno would also fuck itself up doing a charge like he does in the isle irl

[ripe furnace]

It was probably for gashing at close range and

[wise sparrow]

It literally couldn't go fast enough to do that to itself

[ripe furnace]

Maybe

[ripe furnace]

That’s a good thought

[fresh laurel]

Carno horns arent that strong..

[ripe furnace]

But at the speed that it’s charge effectiveness would meet, it would be clapped by then

[wise sparrow]

Trike could charge shit and the victim would be absolutely FUCKED if it got hit

[sinful cove]

theyd get crunched up very fast if he tried ramming shit all day

[fresh laurel]

Same logic for trike then

[wise sparrow]

Carno horns were likely display/territorial dispute weapons

[ripe furnace]

Na

[fresh laurel]

Would be funny if cera had a stationary ram ngl

[fresh laurel]

Thats sharp

[spare badger]

Nice picture

[wise sparrow]

Okay I get you wank off to rex a lot but there is a point where no amount a bias can justify something

[fresh laurel]

Trike horn still strong

[sinful cove]

Thats just the bone part and not the keratin or whatever covering too isnt it, or does that one have the keratin fossilized

[wise sparrow]

You seriously think trike couldn't hurt things if it rammed its horns full force into something?

[ripe furnace]

It would clap Rex

[ripe furnace]

I’m saying it would hurt itself more

[fresh laurel]

Apparently rhino horns more stronger than a trike horns

The more you know...

[ripe furnace]

🤔💭

[wise sparrow]

Yea ig rhinos and buffalo and other horned animals cant use their weapons

[ripe furnace]

Not a fair comparison

[fresh laurel]

So trike horns work against rex thicc skin but not other dinos?

[ripe furnace]

No it still kills everything

[fresh laurel]

Thats what you're saying

[ripe furnace]

Just not with a charge

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tFZJ-9UhLro&feature=share I think this was it

Trike vs Rex is really 60/40 trike IMO

[fresh laurel]

So why say it hurts trike more to be ineffective?

[ripe furnace]

Because in the charging motion it would fuck up its face instead

It can still use its horns in other ways

[wise sparrow]

First of all

1. Already I can see its outdated
2. Its bbc and they tend to do wack shit
3. The amount of shrink wrapping in the damn thumbnail tells me this is some jfc type shit

[ripe furnace]

Slashing and gouging and stuff

[ripe furnace]

They test it’s bones anyway

[spare badger]

That makes sense, trike should win
Also that doc is outdated as hell

[ripe furnace]

Not about the doc just the test

[wise sparrow]

There is so much wrong with that damm skull replica on the thumbnail

[ripe furnace]

I don’t care for the doc itself

[ripe furnace]

What’s wrong with it

[wise sparrow]

Its horns are so fucking spread out it hurts

[spare badger]

It's entire shape

[fresh laurel]

Rihno moment

[ripe furnace]

It’s a mold of a skull 👴🏻

You are bullying trike disability 👴🏻

[wise sparrow]

And a really inaccurate one at that

[spare badger]

Missing all the keratin on the horns too

So that is not remotely accurate

[wise sparrow]

Those horns are literall toothpicks

[ripe furnace]

I don’t think the keratin would make too much of a difference

[spare badger]

Too outdated and innacurate so your point is invalid

[ripe furnace]

It’s head still can’t take the pressure

[wise sparrow]

It makes all the fucking difference. That's the entire reason the keratin it there

[ripe furnace]

No

[ripe furnace]

Regardless of the keratin not only the horns broke

Did you watch the video or just look at the thumbnail

[spare badger]

Probably because the entire skull is built wrong

[wise sparrow]

The horns broke BECAUSE of the wack skull shape and lack of keratin

[ripe furnace]

But not only the horns broke

[spare badger]

And I doubt the trike would headbutt it like they show there

[ripe furnace]

I don’t think it would head but things at all it wasn’t fast enough anyway

[sinful cove]

With the horns sticking out like that theyre gonna cause additional damage when broken

Its a shit test

[wise sparrow]

1. That skull looks like it is made of styrofoam type shit

2. The skull is made wrong. It's as thin as a fucking pencil.

3. Its horns are missing keratin and are spread out way to far

[ripe furnace]

It was made with the same density as bone literally watch the video

The horns didn’t really even break

[spare badger]

Outdated my guy

[ripe furnace]

It was mostly just it’s skull

[ripe furnace]

How does the date impact the test

If they did it again the result wouldn’t change

As far as I know the test was in like 2019

[sinful cove]

A charge impact with that shape would cause damage to the base, aka the skull. The horns are way too spread, the fuckin things are basically t posing on the trike's head

[ripe furnace]

Could be wrong tho

[ripe furnace]

With the shape of the horns or the skull itself?

[sinful cove]

The horns, their angle is way too exaggerated

[spare badger]

If the skull is built completely wrong ofc it's not gonna work

[sinful cove]

Trikes horns were angled but not that badly

[ripe furnace]

Even then they penetrated the mass

It didn’t really effect the front of its face

[spare badger]

This

[ripe furnace]

How is the skull built completely wrong if the horns are the only problem

[sinful cove]

The shape is still bad, it would cause the skull to take damage on a hard impact

The horns arent the only problem, just the biggest one

[ripe furnace]

So you’re saying if the horns were more forward facing the skull would be okay?

[spare badger]

Who said the horns are the only problem
And the horn shape put pressure on the skull causing it to shatter

[sinful cove]

It should be much better off

[ripe furnace]

Why do you think the horn shape would effect the front of the skull

It didn’t shatter near the horns

[spare badger]

Have you not taken physics?

[sinful cove]

Like try stabbing the ground with a stick, if you do it at a hard angle, like that trike replica's horns, its much more likely to snap than if you stab with it straight or at a less extreme angle. If it is attached to something its likely to put a lot of stress at the base with such a bad angle. It puts pressure at the area surrounding the base of the horns

Since it is all attached

Isle trike has better horns for charging than the skull replica

[ripe furnace]

But the horns are not what snapped. And the damage was taken from the base of the nose. Which is far enough

[spare badger]

Trike can move its head further down

[sinful cove]

Charge yo phone oml

What is that 5%

[spare badger]

My guess is 6

[ripe furnace]

1%

[sinful cove]

Jesus lol

[ripe furnace]

Low power mode allows me to use my phone on 1 for like an hour

[sinful cove]

Also watching that like 3 more times the angle really is bad lol

[spare badger]

The angle of the headbutt is weird
Why is its nose like that

Its like they wanted its nose to shatter

[sinful cove]

Wall that reaches the ground + bad horns + bad angle + no bitches + the damn thing sling shots like the trike has 0 control over its speed despite being a stout quadruped

[spare badger]

I figured it out
Trikes didn't headbutt walls

[sinful cove]

Rex's secret ability is it carried a riot shield with it at all times to defend itself from trike charges

[spare badger]

That's what it's arms are used for?

[sinful cove]

Yes.

[spare badger]

Optimal

[wise sparrow]

Factual

[fresh laurel]

Guess he died

Rex arms are really strong so maybe you're onto something...

[covert cave]

I think it was each arm could lift around 300 lbs?

[hollow canyon]

More than that, I think it was over 400lbs

Also - Trike wasn't charging based on what we know, not that it would have to or want to do that

Last I've heard its neck wouldn't be able to withstand charging something

So that wouldn't be happening irl

then again it's a game that takes some liberties, if Carno can charge, I don't see much of a reason for Trike not to be charging either

[dusky surge]

Charging trike would probably happen

It's too easy of a solution to NOT do

Most people would like charging around with a 9 ton pissed off living battering ram with spikes attached to the front

[hollow canyon]

Ye, I don't mind, allowing the development for some creative liberties is a nice touch as long as the animals stay more or less true to themselves and have a "character" based on their irl counterparts so that they are recognisable.

[grim pulsar]

You might like this https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/old-wounds-show-that-triceratops-used-its-horns-for-combat

[dusky surge]

wha

[hollow canyon]

Oh there's 0 doubt about it using horns for combat

it's specifically about charging

[dusky surge]

of course it used the horns to fight lmao

we're discussing charges

Because charging is very different

To swinging sharp horns in the direction of big thing

[hollow canyon]

yea, it most likely couldn't charge at things because it would break its neck if it gained some speed and used all that momentum to stick its horns into something

[grim pulsar]

right, probably similar to that of 2 elephants if they even charge each other much, mostly just locking horns probably and twisting to see who's stronger, the weak one walks off.

[hollow canyon]

it would've been just fine swinging its head around and skewering

Yea, something like that

[grim pulsar]

time to apply some DNA modifications for the game. Give them the pachy neck.

[dusky surge]

I mean that's what we were arguing

The charge isn't very realistic but it'd be fun

[grim pulsar]

I think the game implies dna modification a bit.

hell ya it's fun

[dusky surge]

There's no implication, they outright state it

[grim pulsar]

in legacy it was a ball to be trike.

[dusky surge]

There is outright DNA modification everywhere in the Isle

[grim pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-world-chris-pratt-dinosaur-cook-up-gif-4314754

[hollow canyon]

Do they? I honestly didn't know that much info about the background lore was released yet.

[dusky surge]

Strains

[fresh laurel]

utah rn not being actual utah

[hollow canyon]

Yea but we're supposedly getting an actual Utah later on so

[sinful cove]

Legacy trike is giga fodder. I never lost a giga to a trike

[wise sparrow]

Legacy trike had

1. The worst sub adult stage
2. The worst mobility of any apex
3. The complete inability to prevent people from just walking away to heal.
4. Super bad matchup against any kind of endurance hunter.

And fucking more.
I guess that's what it gets for being an apex herbivore

[sinful cove]

Legacy trike loses facetank to rex. Top tier balance

[fresh laurel]

Me when utah could tail ride trike

[ocean wagon]

TFW utah can even ride shant AND anky death

[wise sparrow]

Anky got dogged on by everything because "noooo only rex can have bone break!!!!!!!"

[fresh laurel]

i was actually surprised to see that anky couldnt break bones

so really anky didnt have much defense as you would want for viability and was slow as hell

[wise sparrow]

Muh rex

[tribal thistle]

Teno isn't op man, pachy is a serial killer

[wise sparrow]

@fallow blaze that's the entire point of tenonto. Its supposed to be the swiss army knife of dinosaurs. It having multiple attacks doesn't make it broken. It gives teno options.

[fallow blaze]

funny that you mention the swiss army knife, i live there. :D
you're right. on our server i see that the teno players kill everyone in 1 vs1. even deinos to land. Well skill is one thing :D
But I wouldn't say that pachy is more op as teno. Every dinosaur has his own specific strength.
They shouldn't be EASY to kill like in legacy.

That's the great thing about evrima - everyone has different experiences.
if we compare 1vs1: then the teno is more capable of killing dinosaurs than the pachy. that's just the way it is. he deals more damage overall and inflicts stuns and bleeds. in a fight against a carno, there is a high chance that the carno will die. I've seen it often enough (good skill is another thing ;) ). I almost only play pachy. in 1v1 against a carno, it's hard to kill him; BUT EASY to incapacitate him! even with a broken leg and a broken jaw, the carno is still very dangerous for the pachy. you fail to kill 1 carno with one full stamina.
the teno already.

[wise sparrow]

Idk what you're trying to get at there. Obviously teno should be more lethal than pachy. I dont see how that makes teno op

[spare badger]

People need to understand that Tenonto is a brawler. An animal that is slower than most animals in its tier, but makes up for it in strength and fighting capability.

Of course Teno, the brawler, should beat Carno, the small game ambush hunter. That's how it's designed to be. Just because carno is 200kg heavier and is a carnivore doesn't mean it should win.
Teno is quite balanced all things considered. It only needs a few small tweaks

Ark Megalosaurus

The only 'OP' animal in the game rn is stego
Deino is in a weird spot
Hypsi doesn't count

Teno is balanced (almost)
Carno is balanced
Pachy needs a little fine tuning
Utah is balanced
Dryo needs a buff

Night vision is a reason enough

Troodon can see heat signatures

[dusky surge]

i dont like the idea of the night buff. You already have the power of significantly greater vision

the only night buff i like is dilo's venom creating nighttime hallucinations

seems weird to make a creature magically faster in the night

[blissful sundial]

well, the teno likes it the way it is...^^ (of course he's armed against everything) here we're talking about the "brawler" I think all-rounder is meant (would rather fit) i.e. armed for everything and everyone

Which in itself isn't really the problem, it doesn't bother me at all. simply the fact that Pachy is screwed because it is attached to the vice of being OP. He is allowed in his only category where he is (non-lethal) as Jacoby141 has said several times.

We're talking about 1vs1 here, we're not talking about mass runs on official servers because every dinosaur in Evrima OP is probably there. ^^

Back to Pachy, he mustn't shine and is restricted, that's just not correct in my opinion
You treat every Herbie to being able to defend yourself well. that's why we play Evrima and not Lagacy xD

[hollow canyon]

What? What are you even talking about? Tenonto isn't slow at all, it's the fastest quadruped in the game and it's just marginally slower than Pachy - an animal 3 times smaller than Tenonto.

This whole nonsense about this animal being perfectly fine while overpowered because it's a "brawler" is just nonsense.

[dusky surge]

Carno is just really fucking fast for its tier lmao

[hollow canyon]

^

Carno's just the fastest carnivore in the game, that doesn't make Tenonto slow

[spare badger]

When I say slow, I mean in comparison to the other animals in and around its tier. I can't image bary being slower than teno

[hollow canyon]

What other animals around its tier?

Bary is smaller than Tenonto

Tenonto was supposed to be the fastest quadruped in the game, meaning that it's likely going to be faster than animals smaller than it like Kentro, Dibble, Ava

[spare badger]

Same tier tho
And it's not just speed, stamina too
Teno can't run for very long at all

[dusky surge]

The issue I think many people have with the game is very much trying to gauge how fast things go when our examples are

The fastest predator
The fastest quadruped
Two extremely quick and nimble runners
Pachy
Two extremely sluggish apexes

[hollow canyon]

Teno can run for longer than most animals though

Tenonto also has the best trot in the game

[dusky surge]

Things feel slow when everything else is real fast

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't have to run as one of the few animals in the game it's fine just trotting around

[dusky surge]

Also teno's trot is insanely good yea

[spare badger]

And teno isn't all that OP
Except that it can sometimes kill carno in 1 stun which is dumb and should be removed

[dusky surge]

Teno is pretty strong I'm ngl

[hollow canyon]

How is that

not op?

"it's not op at all, except that it sometimes can delete an animal larger than itself during a single stun"

[dusky surge]

I literally walk around as teno and I've had carnivores clear the path for me so I can keep walking lmao

[hollow canyon]

^

[spare badger]

Cause it rarely happens

[dusky surge]

Walked right through a pack of utahs and they cleared out rather than mess with me

Which is cool but I should be punished for my cockiness

[hollow canyon]

I literally ran at Carnos and they just ran away because they knew what was about to happen

[dusky surge]

Playing U4 teno is literally a power trip. Nothing dares fuck with you

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto is way too good it's as simple as that, it does take a bit of skill to play properly but that doesn't justify it being this strong

[spare badger]

Weird, that literally never happens to me, they always engage

[hollow canyon]

I had to force people to fight me by following them around for quite some time and just being a nuisance

[dusky surge]

I literally had to kill myself by running into a pack of 5+ carnos who i did fuck up a good bit before dying

[hollow canyon]

I've died after fighting 3 who then ran away and allowed a Utah pack to finish me off

last I played the game

[spare badger]

I would reduce the duration of tenos stun so it can hit one less tail slam
Other than making kick somewhat useable I don't see anything else to change with it

Maybe I'm just scarred from MT teno and don't want them to nerf it ever again

Cause MT teno might as well have not been playable

[hollow canyon]

You're exaggerating, if it got the buffs it received later on then it would've been just fine even with that nerfed damage.

[spare badger]

It was probably compounded by the fact that carno was really good in MT

[spare badger]

How would you nerf Teno?

[hollow canyon]

Carno was alright in the MT, it would've been fine vs the current Tenonto

[hollow canyon]

Probably change the tailslam stun to root

that's my current go-to option

[spare badger]

Root?

[hollow canyon]

"root" means that the character cannot move/run

but it can attack and turn

you could change that to turn off attack too

[spare badger]

Rooted in place?

[hollow canyon]

yea

you have to stay in place but you can still turn, meaning that Tenonto doesn't get free headshots during that time

[spare badger]

So you can turn to prevent headshots?

[hollow canyon]

yea

[spare badger]

I see

I can see that working
Maybe makes you use kick cause you can follow their turn and get headshots

[hollow canyon]

I'd have the stagger animation playing during that but the animal would still be able to turn around to avoid headshots

[spare badger]

Interesting idea

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it would help Utah much but it could still be of some help potentially

[spare badger]

Would you keep tail slam's stamina cost the same, or would you decrease it?

[hollow canyon]

if its damage output remained the same then I'd keep it the same, I don't think this skill deserves a stamina cost buff unless its damage gets nerfed

As it is Tenonto has multiple options of handling most engagements

[spare badger]

That's a fair assesment

[hollow canyon]

it's the second fastest swimmer in the game

[spare badger]

True
Although that will get less and less useful as more dinos are added

Bary in the water waiting

[hollow canyon]

if anything goes wrong for it it can pretty much always jump into water and get out, admittedly Deino poses some risk if you do that but that's dependent on there being a Deino

We will have to see how good Bary will be in the water

but even then - that dino isn't coming for months at the very least

if not years, so I don't really care about how it would affect Tenonto atm

by the time it's out the balance might change 3 times

[spare badger]

Underwater bary eats teno
Bary looks quite big in that image

[hollow canyon]

Yea we will see how that actually plays out

Also - I wouldn't base the sizes of animals on the concept arts

Tapwing mentioned that they might be inaccurate

that Bary e.g. seems to be Sucho sized there

and Allo would be a Saurophaganax sized monster based on the Cerato concept iirc

[spare badger]

Makes sense

I want to do bary v carno
I want to see how that will play out

[rotund basalt]

I think they will probably be very tied when it comes to fighting each other

[spare badger]

Ooooo they buffed teno kick but nerfed slam damage, but it doesn't say by how much...

As long as the damage is reasonable I'm happy with that

[spare badger]

Bary can escape to water, carno to land. Makes sense

And Pachy has its ram fixed

Teno shouldnt be able to take out carno in 1 stun now
It'll probably need another slam to kill
So now kick is useful

[versed rune]

So like, what does it mean by “special exception for tap ram on carno”

I didn’t even know there WAS a special exception

[spare badger]

I'm not sure

But I'm assuming it has something to do with tap ram being especially strong

They also increased the endlag for missing in all cases

[versed rune]

pachy bandwagoners stay losing

[spare badger]

I know cc means stun but what does it actually stand for again?

[versed rune]

Also for both pachy and carno, the “dealing damage even with no cc”

[spare badger]

Whenever I see cc I think crowd control but that can't be right

[versed rune]

Does that mean carno and pachy can ram shit like stego and damage it?

[spare badger]

I think so? Maybe?

[versed rune]

I think it does mean crowd control. Really stupid term imo

It’d be nice if they actually explained what some of these changes mean in the patch notes lol

[spare badger]

Crowd control should refer to sweeping attacks like a sauropod tail swing

Not a stun

Kinda daft imo

[versed rune]

Apparently carno’s charge and pachy’s ram count as “crowd control” 💀💀

[spare badger]

Lmao

[versed rune]

Like no, that’s not crowd control, that’s an obliteration attack you use on one opponent

[spare badger]

The moves that hit 1 target

[spare badger]

What are your thoughts on the teno changes?

As a teno player myself I'm quite pleased (As long as tail slam still does decent damage)

If it takes 1 more hit to kill a carno with a headshot I'm happy with that

At least kick is going to be USABLE

[versed rune]

Kick buff was very needed, tail slam change should be fine so long as it’s not an 8 shot on carno like it used to be. No more of that one shotting Utah with a headshot crap.

I’m over this whole “make smol herbies super strong so they can send giant predators running by just looking at them” mentality so I welcome it

So the tail slam should still be strong, but just not “4 hits ur ded lole”

[spare badger]

That would require teno slam to be < 300 DMG if I'm right

[wise sparrow]

As far as I can tell from the notes these teno changes are okay. It doesn't seem to do too much but it made it not 1 stun carno!

[spare badger]

Finally
That was just kinda stupid
I felt bad for the carnos

[wise sparrow]

That might make fights way more fun. Kinda boring when I win in 1 attack

[versed rune]

I’m just shocked that carno got agility nerfs and not a bite buff

*agility buffs

[wise sparrow]

At least you can actually turn now

[versed rune]

Also why the alt bite buff

[wise sparrow]

I'm pumped to fight the not crippled carno

[versed rune]

Everyone hates that attack, it should’ve been replaced with a new attack

[spare badger]

This will make teno v carno 2v1's actually not shit to play cause I can actually move around cause I can use kick

[spare badger]

Give carno headswing

[wise sparrow]

[versed rune]

Based

[spare badger]

Headswing over weird alt bite

[winter iris]

lol, Teno is not slow at all. Particularly when compared to other dinosaurs. It has an insanely fast turn radius, which is non sense considering how big it is and how big its tail is; it is able to jump (another non sense for a 1.6 tons creature) and reaches its top speed extremely fast. Additionally, it is not true that in a 1v1 with a carno teno is supposed to win. You seem pretty convinced that carno should hunt only small creatures, but that's an hypothesis still not confirmed by researchers (and additionally we're talking about a game not real nature) and it's controversial. The one thing of which researchers are 100% sure (because there's evidence) is that teno was a prey for utah raptors, and this makes also quite likely that a single carno would have been able to kill a teno but there's no evidence because they lived in different parts of the world. But with your logic in a 1v1 carno would likely win, considering that the only evidence we have is that teno was a utah's prey and utah was 3 to 4 times smaller than carno.
Also, I am not sure on which basis you provided the balanced or unbalanced list, because even if I agree on Utah and carno being almost balanced (need some adjustments which seem to be coming in the update) it is quite evident that pachy isn't balanced at all (by far) and teno is also decently OP compared to other dinosaurs currently.
It seems to me that you based your list simply in your own subjective view of what "it should be" without considering how many and which dinosaurs are currently in the game.

[spare badger]

I don't even play carno but alt bite on carno.seems really weird

[versed rune]

Also no Utah bite buff????? No stego nerfs??? What the hell man

Dear god essay

[wise sparrow]

I do think the alt bite animation is super exaggerated tho. It could be faster

[spare badger]

Thanks for the essay on a convo I had hours ago

I'm not going to read that

[versed rune]

It’s dumb, for some reason they’re against carno using its horns to attack, but sure it can slam things with the front of its jaw lol

[wise sparrow]

Fun fact. Utah wasn't a pack hunter. So you'd have to put that utah in drugs to hunt a teno irl

[versed rune]

If carno can damage stego with charge without staggering itself now tho that’ll be super funny

Risky. But super funny

[wise sparrow]

And I'm pretty sure teno lived with Deinonychus

[spare badger]

1 Teno v 1 carno should always be teno favour imo, with the exception of a good ambush charge

[versed rune]

It did

[spare badger]

Yup, deinony and Acro iirc

[wise sparrow]

Yea deinon likely hunted small microfauna while acro hunted teno and shit

[spare badger]

Yea

[versed rune]

I’m just glad pachy likely can’t pull that combo crap anymore

[spare badger]

Hopefully

[versed rune]

Free double hit just cuz it lands one hit

[wise sparrow]

Pachy combo was aids

[versed rune]

Gimme a break

[spare badger]

Then I will play pachy again cause it's juvie isn't shit and its combat will be decent

[versed rune]

“muh small uwu herbie is super strong!!! >:D”

[winter iris]

my bad, I confused utah with Deinonychus, so insanely smaller than Utah. Using the irl logic that you guys are trying to apply to the game, a teno wouldn't even survive a couple utahs

[spare badger]

Leg break and run
The thing still gets 3 shot and carno can turn now so hopefully the playstyle actually works

[wise sparrow]

No... teno would shit on both our jp fannade utah and irl utah. Acro hunted teno. Utah was a dromaosaur that copied Allo's homework (and failed)

[versed rune]

Ok to be fair, irl Utah was monstrous

[wise sparrow]

Yea but still not a pack hunter so mo hope to kill teno irl

But yes irl utah was a chad

[spare badger]

Let's remember we are using Apolloraptor

[winter iris]

you don't have to believe what I am saying. Just go anywhere on the internet and you'll see that Deinonychus used to hunt tenontosaurus. That's a fact

[spare badger]

A very outdated one

[wise sparrow]

Please explain how the tiny ass beta bird killed a 1.6 ton death cow on its own

[spare badger]

Raptors likely didn't pack hunt and definitely couldn't take on a ln iguanodontid

Also raptors can't pounce irl btw

[winter iris]

but having said that, I would agree that TI is a game and a game balance should be found based on what dinosaurs are in the game...so a couple utahs should not, generally, be able to kill a teno

[versed rune]

If they name it Apolloraptor I am going to jump off a building

[spare badger]

His source is Jurassic Fight club

[spare badger]

Novaraptor is better but Dondi said no

[versed rune]

Wait didn’t deinonychus actually hunt teno tho

[spare badger]

No

[wise sparrow]

Hell even 2 irl utahs would struggle to kill a teno cause they wouldn't be coordinated

[spare badger]

Most likely scavenged it

[winter iris]

I don't have to explain why lol...it simply is what used to happen. Sorry to have ruined your belief of teno being stronger than anything hehe

[versed rune]

Wait so did JFC actually just lie about the 4 deinonychus they found that had crushed bones????

[spare badger]

Raptors can't pack hunt as far as we know so no way they could do that

[wise sparrow]

There was one fossil that was debunked to be a scavenging gone feeding frenzy

[versed rune]

Wait so what was the actual fossil then

[wise sparrow]

The fact that you refuse to give me evidence tells me I ruined your beliefs of your raptor fan fics

[spare badger]

This thing could not hunt the 1-2 ton murder cow

Raptors can't pounce either

[winter iris]

I don't even play utah that much. I prefer by far pachy and carno to be honest

[spare badger]

They can do virtually nothing to it

[versed rune]

Yeaaa as far as raptors go deinonychus is a bit... unremarkable... but hey he started the dinosaur renaissance so I love him

[wise sparrow]

I love realistic dromeaosaurs. They are fluffy and occupy a niche I like

[spare badger]

Same

[versed rune]

They are quite literally rats

[spare badger]

Lies they look nice

[versed rune]

Ok but you cannot deny that juvi Utahs are rats

[wise sparrow]

Rats compared dinosaurs. If you met a Deinonychus you would perish

[covert cave]

the dino equivalent of a rat

[wise sparrow]

Yea they are just literally ugly rats.

[versed rune]

Allosaurus is “medium” by dinosaur standards ☠️

[spare badger]

Feathered dinos are great

[versed rune]

Austroraptor my beloved

[spare badger]

Look at little deinonychus in the bottom
Definitely hunted tenonto

I watched Jurassic Fight club as a kid

Unfortunately

[covert cave]

little guy couldnt even kill a cow

[versed rune]

Didnt we all

[wise sparrow]

Hypsi looking at all the other dinosaurs that got robbed

[covert cave]

lmao

[versed rune]

N A N O T Y R A N N U S

[spare badger]

I remember playing with toys and remaking the nanotyrannus bit

[winter iris]

Guys, I don't have beliefs ...I simply told you that there's evidence of fossils found together and evidence of teno fossils found with Deinonychus tooth marks. It is not my belief it's just a fact. I would agree that it seems unlikely but maybe a pack of 5-6 Deinonychus could have been able to kill a sub-adult or so, I don't know. The only thing I know is that, even if it seems strange, evidence has been found. that's it

[covert cave]

nanotyrannus REAL??!!!!11!1

[spare badger]

They didn't kill it, they scavenged it.

[covert cave]

or they could have attacked it and lost

[wise sparrow]

Okay? What proves it was predation and not scavenging?

[versed rune]

Yknow with our current knowledge, the nano vs rex episode is a hate crime

[spare badger]

It probably died from an Acro or something

[jaunty marten]

I love how pteras who were basically just cheap plastic to begin with are now actual glass.

[covert cave]

but then the marks would show signs of repair

[versed rune]

Skinny baby T. rex murdering a fat baby T. rex

[winter iris]

I think you are the first "researcher" that is so sure about it

[spare badger]

Researcher?

[winter iris]

but I agree it is one of the possibilities

[wise sparrow]

Any paleontologist that still thinks Raptors were pack hunting killers needs to get out of the 19th century

[spare badger]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the 'Deinoychus hunted Teno' thrown out years ago?

[spare badger]

Ask in #paleotalk someone probably knows a lot more than we do

[versed rune]

Not sure, but what I do know is that monsters resurrected spino is entirely historically accurate

[spare badger]

Wasn't it like 90ft long or something

[versed rune]

Well

[winter iris]

what I was trying to say it that it is pointless to say that in reality teno would win against this or that, because we simply don't know. And it is funny that you think that basically nothing could kill a teno. It could be that teno would have killed everything or maybe it could have been a scared herbi killed by many other animals (unlikely but possible)

[wise sparrow]

It was in the 200s

Like 288 feet long I think they put it

[spare badger]

30ft rugops
Picks it up in its mouth

[versed rune]

It dwarfed a carcha and picked up a 30 foot long rugops in its mouth (that’s an oversized rugops mind you)

[spare badger]

The only food monsters ressurected doc was the megalania one

[versed rune]

SEVERELY oversized rugops

[wise sparrow]

Isn't rugops a literal dinosaur rat?

[spare badger]

Yes

[wise sparrow]

Rat

[winter iris]

So, in the end, the game's balance is not very much linked to real life I think...it should just be fun, decebtly balanced in consideration of which dinosaurs are available

[versed rune]

He’s a bit less than cera size

I think that rugops there is way too small tbh

[spare badger]

According to Nova, pachy sized

[versed rune]

Yea that does not look right at all

I mean it might be

But idk

[spare badger]

A quick Google search tells me that yea, rugops smol

[wise sparrow]

Btw does anyone know any good sites to research dinosaurs? Google is a tad... inconsistent. Like, showing jp velo type stuff.

[spare badger]

Unfortunately I don't
Paleotalk will probably know

Maybe Google scholar?

[versed rune]

Here’s an upper estimate of rugops too

Also this artist does some awesome depictions; this one looks to be a bit smaller

[wise sparrow]

That's a huge difference holy hell

[versed rune]

Yea I think all we have of rugops is the skull so the size range varies

[spare badger]

From cerato size to pachy size

[versed rune]

Don’t quote me on that tho

[wise sparrow]

Where do you get these btw?

[spare badger]

DeviantArt?

[versed rune]

So if I were putting rugops in the isle, I’d make him slightly larger than utah

[winter iris]

tbh I don't know if there's evidence that it was scavenging or predation. I assume it would be quite difficult to be 100% sure about what it was considering it happened millions years ago. To me, it seems strange that Deinonychus hunted such a big prey, but my opinion isn't that valuable on this ...that's why I stick with facts which are that fossils have been found

[versed rune]

Hang on let me find the artist

Ok

The artist is named cisopurple, they do a bunch of awesome size comparisons of pretty up to date dinos

[wise sparrow]

Definitely. Give the utah's more to fear

[wise sparrow]

Thank you

[versed rune]

No problemo

They also have 2 potential spino variants

So I’d say this artist is pretty credible for size estimates just based on looking at their interpretations

Granted keep in mind that I myself am an armchair and like dinosaurs more for the artistic and speculative aspect

Not that I don’t like the actual science, I just think the speculation is the coolest

[wise sparrow]

Imagine there was a complete spino fossil at one point but but cavemen burned it as a sacrifice

[winter iris]

guys there's something in the Changelog 0.8.74.130 that I didn't quite understand: they mention in the balance section in buffs that bleed and fracture regen have been increased by 15% and in debuffs that the same things have been decreased by 25%. Am I missing something?

[spare badger]

Diet benefits

Perfect diet does that

[winter iris]

ohhhh OK, cheers for this

[spare badger]

Np

[spare badger]

Finally a good reason to get it once you're adult

[versed rune]

More debuffs and still no buffs

Wahoo....

I hate this mentality of “your reward is NOT being punished”

[spare badger]

They added more buffs

But also added the same debuffs

[winter iris]

indeed. It still doesn't seem very sensible to have the highest reward for growth rate increase once you are adult, but I assume it's for when you'll be able to grow further than 100%

[versed rune]

The absolute max growth beyond 100% should be like 120%

[wise sparrow]

And the best part is, we have the best growth out of any dino game atm somehow

[versed rune]

Beasts of Bermuda experimented with that and its the reason the game is elitist as fuck

[spare badger]

Can't you grow forever in that game?

[wise sparrow]

PoT with its VERY realistic growth times
And BoB with its kaiju that dox the devs if they nerf them

[versed rune]

In theory yes but the way the growth scales it would take literal years to reach 99.0

But people will actually spend months growing their 4.0 rexes

And they’ll be unkillable

Thankfully server owners are allowed to cap growth

[spare badger]

Sounds cool in concept
Not in execution

[versed rune]

But it never matters cuz they always set the cap to like 3.0 or 4.0

If I had a BoB server the cap would be 1.2

[wise sparrow]

I really feel bad for the BoB devs because they try to fix the game but then they get death threats and literal crimes commit against them

[versed rune]

In BoB? Yes I think that happened recently, they pitched a change that would’ve actually helped the game then the sweaty neckbeards flipped out about it

I don’t remember what the change was tho

[spare badger]

What happened?

[wise sparrow]

Inherit nerfs

[versed rune]

YEA THAT

what was the inherit nerf gonna do??

[spare badger]

How does it work now?

[wise sparrow]

They wanted to cap inherits so dinos didn't inherit the power of god and anime but the clans said no

[wise sparrow]

It was gonna cap how many you could have

[versed rune]

All I know is that the entirety of pred’s team was in support of the nerfs, but he bent to the whim of the furry rp clans that play the game

[winter iris]

btw I just checked and the update is now available on Evrima, hopefully the whole game will benefit! Sorry I know it's not what you're discussing about

[versed rune]

Weak leader

[wise sparrow]

People have +2s in literally every talent

[versed rune]

You don’t bend to the whim of the mob EVER

[wise sparrow]

I mean those clans have sent devs death threats over a REMODEL. Imagine the shit they'd pull over THAT

[spare badger]

I hope primeaval horizon avoids that

[wise sparrow]

I'd be worried too

[fresh laurel]

Wow

This update patch i read...

Sounds amazing

[covert cave]

yeah

[spare badger]

Good changes

[versed rune]

What??? What remodel?

[fresh laurel]

Pachy nerf ggez

Utah matchup with it will be better i think

[wise sparrow]

They gave ory a single skull bone it was missing and people told callie to k**l themselves and to quit their job

[fresh laurel]

I forgot birds even existed with how long the bug was in lol

[spare badger]

[covert cave]

there are birds?

[versed rune]

????????????

It’s fucking ORY

WHO CARES ABOUT ORY

[fresh laurel]

When you 1 called in early evrima birds flew from the trees

[spare badger]

It's 1 bone why do they hate it

[covert cave]

oh YEAH I remember now

man that bug has been in for a while

[wise sparrow]

Cause that community hates change for some reason

So I'm genuinely worried for the devs privacy and wellbeing if they make a serious nerf

[versed rune]

Bob just feels unfair

[covert cave]

hell hath no fury like a furry neckbeard with technological literacy

[versed rune]

Even if you reach adult you know you’re still going to get bodied by everything else

[wise sparrow]

The devs have tons of good ideas but cant use them cause of the community

[spare badger]

Y'know those games that if you weren't playing since they came out you will never be able to catch up? Sounds like that

[versed rune]

That’s why the only correct options for playing beasts of Bermuda are picking icthy, lurdu, bird, or megaraptor

[wise sparrow]

Ithy and megaraptor get bodied now

[versed rune]

Cuz at least those ones have viable ways and options to escape furry neckbeard +5 inherits

Yea but icthy has water

[wise sparrow]

Megalo has a bunny hop bug to catch megar

And itchy cant run from much on land and is now slow as shit in water compared to other animals

[spare badger]

I'm quite excited for the influx of videos on the new patch

[versed rune]

Yea I noticed that, why does megalo have the ability to spam jump and be faster

Actual greasiest playable I’ve ever seen in a dino game is bob megalo

[wise sparrow]

You should see acro

[versed rune]

Isn’t Acro slower than rex in that game

[fresh laurel]

I remember saying pachy and birds needed nerfs in bob discord...

Everyone said no cus they bad already

[versed rune]

Lies

Birds can hunt t rexes

[fresh laurel]

This was before bob did the big berfs to them

I lost faith in bobs balance lol

Ill say the isle is in one of its most balanced states but thats just me ig

[wise sparrow]

Acro can obtain 76% damage reduction and can heal 300 health a tick and can do bleed and has literally every single op talents on its tree and MORE

And has good stamina

[fresh laurel]

Dies to meg or megar pack tho

Or dies to velo in a 1v1

[wise sparrow]

Not with thick hide and the ability to break its spine to bite directly behind it

[fresh laurel]

What

[wise sparrow]

Acro has a broken animation that cause legacy rex levels of hitboxes and thick hide makes all small animals useless

Thick hide is a talent

[fresh laurel]

Ik

Im saying what cus its like devs saw how op smalls were and made a lazy counter

[stark knoll]

This isn't a BoB discussion channel, you can discuss it in #offtopic-discussion

[versed rune]

So what you’re saying is that I should be playing Acro more

[fresh laurel]

Wrong moment bruv

[winter iris]

am I wrong or carno stamina got a lot worst with the update? As a baby it seems to deplete as fast as an adult, definitely faster than before. At least to me it seems quite clear

[spare badger]

Check the notes

[fresh laurel]

so uh

ptera nerf again lol

are they trying to make it so my juvie utah doesnt even have to try in a fight with it?

[spare badger]

Ptera shouldn't fight anything really

[fresh laurel]

i know but i wonder why another nerf

i thought it was nerfed fine but...

just find it funny to see another weight and hp nerf

[languid tundra]

ptera shouldnt fight? what do you want them to be, a chicken ai but a player controls it?

I direct us back to the comment "ptera is just a playable spectator"

[dusky surge]

I like how people are complaining like 90kg ptera was at all reasonable

[languid tundra]

Dinos shouldnt feel like the best you can do is watch from afar, you should feel like part of the game, of the player base.... it should be fun for everyone, not feel like just picking the dino alone puts you on the back foot from the outset

[dusky surge]

It's a fucking ptera why does it weigh so much

Thank God they gave it a realistic size and weight

Plus, the lower weight is in many ways a buff for the ptera

Since ptera can select its engagements freely, all it does is mean the ptera needs less food to continue going

For anyone else, a hefty weight nerf would be nothing but detrimental, but ptera's high defensive ability in flight means it barely matters at all

[languid tundra]

you say that, but if you are on the land, which you need to be for water and eating still, literally anything is a death sentence, theres no picking engagements on that side

[dusky surge]

Even so, 90kg ptera was broadly overweight for the animal

Like, insanely so

[languid tundra]

I mean, im not saying the weight didnt need a shift but come on now

in the whole spectrum here, not zeroing in on that 90kg weight

[harsh lark]

definition of looking for non-existent problems to complain about

[languid tundra]

spectator dino who dies to a fly fart on ground

[dusky surge]

Frankly, I think ptera SHOULD be one-shot by animals like utah. Seeing as utah is now a predator to ptera due to diet changes, this makes pteras less unkillable than they were, as they must fear the ambush of a hungry utah.

Also it makes pteras do less dumb shit

Like fly directly into players

Because pteras KNEW they were near unkillable and basked in that power

[languid tundra]

utah already could shred them, but everyone else gets some semblance of survivability

on ground*

[dusky surge]

The whole "ptera is 90kg" thing lead to people asking for quetz upscaling, because why should quetz weigh 250kg only if ptera gets to weigh 90kg? Having flyers be more realistic in weights means they have to actually rely on their, you know, flights in order to not die to land predators

[languid tundra]

anyway im clearly not going to sway you both, with your bias against ptera

[harsh lark]

every dino in the game does dumb shit because they're player controlled. you're not gonna organically force ptera players to care about proper survival because they're a spectator cam with nothing else to do

[languid tundra]

ima stop before i look like an armchair warrior

[dusky surge]

Also, ptera is a scavenger/fisher. The lower weight means they get to eat less for more

Like overall they can just really easily sustain themselves on basically anything

[harsh lark]

you get used to it

[languid tundra]

youre not getting the dang point here wavepoole

we die on the ground... on. the. ground. where we have to go to eat and drink.

[dusky surge]

Yes, that is true

And that SHOULD be ptera's primary weakness and vulnerability

[languid tundra]

we can not, i repeat, can not survive on ground, and thats unbalanced if we HAVE to do it

[dusky surge]

You have flight and the ability to move to safe areas and survey lands to assess safety

No one else has as much visibility and mobility as a ptera

[languid tundra]

im done. this is some bs

[dusky surge]

I am literally stating the many benefits to ptera

Okay lmao bye

I don't see the issue but sure

[sinful cove]

How hard is it to pay attention to where you land and be prepared to take off quickly

[dusky surge]

(very)

[sinful cove]

Ive never been killed while landing to eat a body because im actually careful but ig some people just want to play reckless

[dusky surge]

Yea

Some people fly into the faces of other animals

Then get shocked when they're knocked down

[sinful cove]

If this change thins the pool of spam calling pteras that recklessly swoop people and land in active areas then its aight

[dusky surge]

Utah predating it instead of deino also seems good imho

Especially since bite = kill against ptera as utah now

Utahs can get their ambush game going against these fuckers

[sinful cove]

I practically main pt and a little hp nerf means nothing to me

Also killing pt as utah is fun, was a good choice even if pt is just a snack

[dusky surge]

Yea

Also ptera got the buff of NOT HUNTING FUCKING RABBITS THANK GOD

Chickens are so much better for ptera and rabbits are so much better for utah

Utah is quick enough to catch the rabbits before they burrow without playing a fucking surgical precision game and chickens can be spotted by pteras from above rather than utahs having to run across the nine hells to find one

[sinful cove]

Rabbits and hypsi seemed like stupid additions for pt diet. A forest animal and the most annoying to catch ai

So glad rabbit is off

[dusky surge]

Also pachy changes are nice for carnos

No more special exceptions for the stun

[sinful cove]

The deleted patches of forests probably making carnos happy too, not gonna enjoy the probable increase of carno broadcast spam tbh

[dusky surge]

Now the pachy actually needs to use a charged ram to stun a carno

Also finally, body fracture buff

2x stam consumption is huge lmao

Gonna be brutal against carno imho, but def helps the pachy do the more "hit and run" thing

[spare badger]

What does that even mean?

[dusky surge]

carno got an exception that meant tapped ram stunned it

[sonic flame]

Pachy's ram has certain limits to it on what it can or can't stun based on charge level

[spare badger]

Ah
I see

[fresh laurel]

that was the weight? seesh but i thought using complete real weights wasnt what the game all was

[spare badger]

How much damage does teno slam do now? Do we know?

[sonic flame]

Yall will have to test it

[scarlet onyx]

ptera's primary weakness and vulnerability is already its stats tho

[dusky surge]

yes

[fresh laurel]

you mean juvie utah

just one good pounce and its either bleed or dmg

love it...

[calm ibex]

can u stop nerfing irrelevant animals, why is it so scary to give playerbase reasons to play the objectively worst animals in the game (ptera,hypsi,dryo)

[dusky surge]

Ptera? The worst? lmao no

Ptera has been one of the best animals in the game when it comes to survival for a long time now

Like nothing comes close to how survivable this thing is

[calm ibex]

yes, scuffed admin mode that does NOT need to interact with playerbase, at this point might aswell let AI take over that role

[dusky surge]

Yea, so what does weight change then?

[calm ibex]

if u do the whole sky pecking thing then it actually does not interfere with its "viability" in anyway, since its based on not getting hit even once
however due to reduced weight its even worse meal than before

[marsh lion]

So Pteras damage is nerfed even more then?

[dusky surge]

Nope

Damage is entirely the same, no nerfs

[marsh lion]

Ah ok

[fresh laurel]

isnt there a way to somewhat increase its food value then?

eh but besides that will they make it so you can eat faster

[calm ibex]

imo game needs some sort of nutrient gain multipliers, example as one adult ptera would fill X diet requirement for 2 hours, but since its gonna get scrapped anyways due to gore it may be pointless

i just want there to be value to ptera, not something that u use to observe how others play the game whilst simultaniously wasting precious server slot by being immortal and be encouraged to NOT interact with others

[fresh laurel]

playable fish

[dusky surge]

I'd honestly give ptera egg-stealing at some point

If it's caught, it dies, if it isn't, it gets food and nutrients

[fresh laurel]

i see egg stealing more for land dinos but making ptera somewhat more aquatic could be cool imo

[keen plover]

Ptera having 15n bite at 45kg is pretty wild

Not what I meant. If they're going to downsize it. They need to lower it to like 10n imo. At 60% ptera- you're 1 shot from a full grown which is ridiculous.

[dusky surge]

It really is, it has the best bite to weight ratio in the game by a massive milestone

[fresh laurel]

to be fair

beak go brrrr

[keen plover]

Not sure what they will do- but imo if they're going for this 45kg ptera (pretty much saying no to fighting) then it should be 10n max

[glad ginkgo]

Did the devs make carnos stam worse?

[sinful cove]

looks like everyone got his with the stam nerf hammer

[glad ginkgo]

there wasnt anything really wrong with the stam pools tho wtf

[spare badger]

I thought it was just juvie stam

It seems like a bomb was set off cause of the teno changes

How much damage does kick do?

It seems to me that spamming kick once you get a stun is much better than spamming slam

[alpine plover]

Or just stun with tail, kick and then claw

[spare badger]

Since kick is faster and uses less stamina

[spare badger]

That too, but the damage output would be somewhat low

[alpine plover]

Not even

I made carnos piss of by doing that maybe pne or two times.
Also conserves more stam

Stop being salty you cant kill carno with no skill like before, i can see your rage when i see the crossea in my #balance-feedback comment

[pale surge]

carno main 💀

[covert cave]

💀💀💀

[spare badger]

True, probably better in 2v1's and longer fights

[alpine plover]

I had a 10 minute long fight against a Carno yesterday

[spare badger]

They still haven't gotten rid of the bushes beside gorge so I almost fell in every time I went to try and get radish

[alpine plover]

Shit's nice

[spare badger]

Nice
What are the charge changes? Do they effect fights much?

[covert cave]

You win?

[alpine plover]

Yes

[covert cave]

W

[alpine plover]

Well.
They can turn better so you have to make larger / earlier dodges.
If it hits your tail you don't get CC'd but it still deals dmg. And charge in general has locational dmg now

[spare badger]

Finally
It was really annoying dodging and it hit my tail and I got knocked over
And now I can't dodge with 1 press of the d key so that's good

Seems like once people get used to the new slam and kick teno v carno is gonna be pretty fun

Still teno favour would you say?

[alpine plover]

No

[covert cave]

I feel like that’s alright

[alpine plover]

I personally think it's 50/50
IF maybe a
55/45 for Carno.
But even then

[spare badger]

Damn
Can't say I agree with that tbh since carno has the luxury of leaving the encounter

[alpine plover]

Carno and Teno fights are alot longer and outdrawn now and I love it

[spare badger]

If they are longer would it be easier to get to a river so teno can cross and escape?

[alpine plover]

Yes

[spare badger]

If that is the case I am fine with it

A 50/50 that is

[alpine plover]

Only thing I'd personally change is to switch tail slam with kick stamina

[spare badger]

Imo it should be 55/45 teno favour cause teno can't run too easily of its in northwest plains for radish

[alpine plover]

Since kick will now be your primary killing weaopon

[alpine plover]

Eh I disagree. I think a 50/50 is good

[spare badger]

I just feel a 50/50 between a brawler and carno feels wrong

Cause it's carno

[glad ginkgo]

Carno main 4 life ( or until allo)

[alpine plover]

But Teno is only a brawler through what it actually is now

Use everything in your kit

Not just 1 move

[spare badger]

Carno has the luxury of being the fastest animal in the game

I do like the teno changes don't get me wrong but I feel the matchup should be slight teno favour

[glad ginkgo]

too many times pre patch I fought tenos that used exclusively tail slam

[spare badger]

It was just that good
Which got boring as a teno main

[spare badger]

That I appreciate

Imo decrease slam stamina use and we are good

Since slam isn't a heavy hitter

[glad ginkgo]

Idk maybe Ill play teno in the future. I solo play mostly so Carno was really the only good pick for me and herbi gameplay isnt very much fun

[spare badger]

I don't find carno gameplay very fun so I play teno almost exclusively

[alpine plover]

I love teno mains crying that theu don't get to tailslam slaughter carnos anymore and need to actually use their brain

[spare badger]

The isle players and 'brain' don't go together

[alpine plover]

"But why do I need to use all of my attacks like inteded instead of spamming 1 attack!!"

Cope. Fucking adapt

[spare badger]

I haven't gotten to adult yet but I am so excited to use kick
It is honestly my favorite teno move

[alpine plover]

Stun him with the tail, kick him in the face and then claw him as he tries to run

Dmg + very high bleed

[spare badger]

I'll do that when I get to adult, thx mate

[alpine plover]

That's why Teno v Carno fights are so drawn out now

That bleed on Teno gets dangerous real quick

[spare badger]

Let's go teno bleed

[alpine plover]

What server btw