balance-feedback-discussion

[calm ibex]

utah does not need any buffs

[wise sparrow]

Utah just needs bug fixes

[fresh laurel]

Wdym

What bugs are there?

[wise sparrow]

Utah cant pounce in bushes

And pounce in general is still finicky at certain ping

[silent isle]

also utah cant pounce something in mud pits, it just falls right beside the animal, usually seen carnos abuse this makes them impossible to attack without dying

also sometimes when sprinting and you click pounce you will do it in place instead of doing the leap with it

[hollow canyon]

This happens no matter whether you're sprinting or not, it's about how you position the camera. If you look even slighyl downwards it will cause you to pounce in place because... reasons I guess?

[sinful cove]

Trying to distract people with eating grass isnt going to solve their aggro behaviour

It literally emphasizes on one of the reasons they are so aggro, because the only other thing they have to do is hold e next to a plant

[dusky surge]

Also constant eating is actually really boring lmao

[sinful cove]

Herbi diets are boring as shit idk how anybody thought it would actually be engaging and distract people from brawling

Sure grazing on low quality foliage might possibly work for some animals like anky, but just slapping it on as a half-assed solution to a class that people play aggro with is an awful solution

It wont solve anything

[fresh laurel]

I mean i see stego as the cow of the isle to be honest...

[hollow canyon]

I think the suggestion was more so about perhaps having a fast hunger drain while keeping the current nutrient drain. Meaning that you'd actually have to graze to stave off starvation while your nutrients still remain high. At least that's I'd try to justify that suggestion. Then again - pressing "e" on grass is, well let's just say that I can think of more interesting ways of spending my time - like watching paint dry for example.

[sinful cove]

Yeah it still boils down to “killing people is more fun than holding e next to grass” so it doesn’t really fix anything

[hollow canyon]

That is kind of the issue with herbivores and their gameplay though, if we want to be all realistic they'd spend the majority of their time just eating, meanwhile carnivores would spend the majority of their time just sitting on their butts saving their energy and that makes for some truly thrilling gameplay.

[sinful cove]

Afk gameplay from legacy

[hollow canyon]

I'd say that in this case it would divide the time spent on murdering the hell out of people by short sessions of pressing "e" on grass.

[sinful cove]

Just sit in a field eating bushes or sit under a tree until some easy food spawns

[hollow canyon]

Either way idk, The Isle in general needs to figure out what it wants to be and what it wants its core gameplay to be. This is the biggest underlying issue with this game - the core gameplay is absolute hot garbage.

[sinful cove]

So stego could hold e while he body guards a dead utah or hold e instead of just sitting tabbed out in a megaherd waiting for a fight to happen

[hollow canyon]

The problem is that this approach of trying to have this game being a very... visceral survival horror experience, let's call it - get's in the way of it being actually fun.

[hollow canyon]

Even better, it could do what I used to do in update 2 and 3 and graze over their bodies as a form of teabagging the enemy that it killed.

[sinful cove]

Lol i used to do that a lot when i played teno

[hollow canyon]

Same, I did that specifically on Teno

[sinful cove]

Only thing i used graze for

[hollow canyon]

yea well in update 2 I also used it to get food cause I was too lazy to look for bushes as I was constantly fighting people until I'd die

so I just grazed a bit and went on to fight whomever I could find

[sinful cove]

I didnt go out of my way to start fights but if i won them i was an ass about it lol

I occasionally use it to get like 10% hunger while looking for diet food now but ig thats its purpose

[hollow canyon]

I absolutely went out of my way to start fights, I also bodyguarded and did all kinds of morally questionable things but idc, Tenonto is good at killing stuff so that's what I'm going to use it for

[sinful cove]

I personally only bodyguard if the other party was also being toxic because i'm petty, which is on occasion

[hollow canyon]

I don't, I do it just because I like fighting

I mean - typically I did it when I fought a couple of carnivores and killed them

[sinful cove]

But i cant really blame people for doing it because it starts fights and fights are about the only entertainment in game for a lot of people

[hollow canyon]

I don't group with other people when I play a herbivore so there's not really anything I could bodyguard per se

although honestly if I saw some carnivores having a body I'd absolutely trot over to them and stand on top of it

whatever gets me into a fight

[sinful cove]

Its entertaining to get people to chase you as a hypsi at times or send people in to a rage as ptera but fighting is just the purest form of entertainment the isle has at the moment even with the ecosystem and oasis problem

[hollow canyon]

^

Fighting is literally the only good thing about this game

which makes it painful when devs try to limit it by introducing some dumb mechanics like diets and locked health

[sinful cove]

The isle remains a deathmatch with timer attachments that do very little

[hollow canyon]

anything that decreases the amount of time I can spend chomping other dinosaurs is bad in my book

unless idk, they'd introduce something fun to do but I can't think of anything really

[sinful cove]

I wish theyd just drop sandbox already because people already play with the same recklessness as they would there lol

[hollow canyon]

I think they just want to prioritise other things + they might just be scared that people would drop survival completely

tbh at this point I probably would

[sinful cove]

Even their little mating dances dont look engaging or distracting enough to make me want to do that instead of camp kill some fresh spawn juvis

[hollow canyon]

Evrima's just so bad that I wouldn't want to waste my time playing its survival, I'd just log in and every now and then, have some fun on sandbox and leave

[hollow canyon]

Yea, unfortunately courting and what not is just... kind of a filler? It doesn't count as real content in my book

[sinful cove]

I mainly play small animals and troll in ev because stego and deino are boring as fuck and nothing is worth the time input when youre likely to just die to a cheater or mega/mix pack in a laggy onesided fight

[hollow canyon]

True, when i played it I mainly abused Tenonto

I don't play small animals cause they aren't really my thing

[sinful cove]

Courting so far also seems pretty low engagement and underwhelming. Do a little dance… where are the dominance fights? Tenonto looks fucking stupid doing a mating dance, j wanna arm grapple for dominance not play ballerina on what is supposed to be a brawling animal

[hollow canyon]

Yea, we could really use some idk playfights or something

they could rely on using up stamina instead of actually messing up the health of the participants

then again there should be a reason to even do that in the first place

[sinful cove]

Not to mention the animations on the bald leather jp raptors that look like theyre supposed to be showing off something they dont have

[hollow canyon]

I just don't know how this game could be fixed it has some serious underlying problems and the devs need to ask themselves what they want the core gameplay to be about

Yea these two courting animations are probably the most questionable

even these two don't really bother me though

they are w/e, most courting animations are w/e as far as I'm concerned

Hypsi one looks the best imo

[sinful cove]

Very little thought seems to be put in to the courting system animations so far, it's like the devs themselves aren’t even that interested in it

[hollow canyon]

Carno's ok, Dryo's ok, Deino's ok, Tenonto's looks a bit oof, Utah's look off

[sinful cove]

Dryo is okayish and hypsi is nice but im sick of dances already. Its a lame little animation with no engagement or player input

Its not gonna add that much flavor to the game if its like this when it hits live

[hollow canyon]

Well I said on a couple of occasions that as far as I'm concerned we could do with a nod, these animations bring next to nothing to the game and there are far more pressing matters

[sinful cove]

People are probably gonna use it to dance on bodies while they corpse guard or something

More than their actual purpose

[hollow canyon]

but I guess most people on this discord prefer to make some tier lists of the courting animations and mald over Tenonto's head going too far back or whatever rather than having animals actually get fixed

[hollow canyon]

That's a neat idea

Although I think we might be required to have another dinosaur of our species to trigger the courting animation

[sinful cove]

Maybe they’ve lost hope in the isle actually fixing balance, i myself have at least

When devs hear “this needs a nerf” they destroy the animal, “this needs a buff” leads to an overbuff or them completely breaking one of the animal's mechanics. Shallow water hot spots are a problem for so long, food values for carnis are a consistent problem

[hollow canyon]

Yeah...

I think this is potentially caused by the fact that they introduce balance changes so rarely

the complaints keep on piling up which leads to them overblowing the nerfs and buffs

[sinful cove]

Yeah its probably a contributing factor

[hollow canyon]

inb4 Stego gets nerfed into a state worse than update 2

[sinful cove]

Inb4 pachy reverts to legacy state

[hollow canyon]

Pachy imo is a bit easier to handle

Although I could see it getting overnerfed

[sinful cove]

Its a shame because theyve come up with good ways to balance some trickier animals like deino stat wise, but then mess it up with something else

[hollow canyon]

Then again if it gets the bugfixes I think it should be better

Currently Pachy is still weaker than it would be if it worked properly

the bugs bring it down quite a bit

[sinful cove]

Solving the foliage hacker epidemic and server lag would be nice at least but thats been a problem forever too

[hollow canyon]

well maybe the damage cancel helps it out although tbh I don't think it has that big of an influence

[sinful cove]

The damage cancel seems to do pachy more good than bad

[hollow canyon]

From what I've read apparently people can get rid off the foliage by tinkering with the .ini files

[hollow canyon]

Yea it does, but body fracture not working at all really does it a lot of bad

[sinful cove]

Mfer is parrying heavy attacks from animals 2.5+ times its size

[hollow canyon]

I can't even imagine how powerful it would be if bodyfractures actually did anything

[sinful cove]

Body frac is hot garbage and hitting the leg of an animal just to apply body frac, and the pounce bug are the only two bugs hindering pachy that i can immediately think of

[hollow canyon]

I still find it funny how people said they do too little when in reality it turned out they didn't do anything

Body frac is hot garbage because it effectively does nothing atm

[sinful cove]

Body frac only applies a stance animation change from what i see

[hollow canyon]

someone's finger seems to have slipped while they were inputting the data

Yea that stance change doesn't do anything it was supposed to be a visual representation of the animal being body fractured but since the fracture doesn't do anything it's kind of... useless?

[sinful cove]

It basically is just an indicator of “you missed the leg/head”

[hollow canyon]

Well it's not true that it does "nothing" but it does so comically little that it can be ignored outright

In general - body fractures were supposed to increase the stamina drain on the animal

by 100%

That would effectively halve the runtime of the animal affected

imagine how strong that would be, meanwhile atm it does... nothing

as in - it does increase the stamina drain but it does so in such a marginal way that you won't even notice it

[sinful cove]

I personally wish theyd put a stam cap scaling with severity. Kinda like knocking the wind out of somebody

Either one would be better than what we have

[hollow canyon]

I think the idea is alright, halving the running time would be extremely powerful it's just that somebody must've put in wrong numbers

I remember that that was what the body fractures were supposed to do

but tbh the devs never really outright wrote it down in patch notes or anything like that

so it's just guess work

perhaps this isn't a "bug" but a "feature"

The lack of clarity in how this game is supposed to work leads to all kinds of weird bugs

I've found quite a couple of them were I just malded over a mechanic being absolutely inane and then it turned out that it was just bugged

because the devs don't give us the data lest we create a meta with them or something

For goodness sake it's a game in such an early access that it barely counts as an alpha right now, why would you try to hide the stats from the community?

We keep on having weird situations where something doesn't work as intended for a long time because nobody knows how it's actually supposed to be working.

[dusky surge]

i still want body fractures to actually do what they're meant to lmao

[hollow canyon]

same, I think that could help Pachy out a lot

...which admittedly this animal doesn't need any help, but then it could actually have some of its more overpowered aspects nerfed about it

[dusky surge]

true

[slim dragon]

@languid tundra

[languid tundra]

I know KOS is one thing, but they wanted to push contesting for bodies, if im not wrong in remembering, and being i was eating one...

[slim dragon]

It's not incompatible

[languid tundra]

also thats from 2021 so who knows if the view has changed

[slim dragon]

If you were attacked while eating a body, well, too bad but that's part of the game

As long as they didn't say anything we can assume they still stand by it

[languid tundra]

assumption makes an ass out of you and me, as the saying goes, may as well mention and get current feedback answers than relying on information that may no longer be in the same line of thinking as now

[slim dragon]

Well you can ask Punch again if you want

[languid tundra]

thats why its there ;>

[slim dragon]

That feedback doesn't looks like "Hey Punch, do you still consider that KOS isn't a problem in the game ?"
But I might have misread

[languid tundra]

I mean, its all about how you read it i guess, i didnt specifically type it like above, but I have mentioned disincentives for certain conditions of killing

namely, when theres so much food, get it eaten up, then go back to the bullshittery of KOS

[slim dragon]

And I gave you the last answer a member of the dev team gave to this kind of feedback
But if you don't want to believe it, I have nothing else to say

[languid tundra]

Youre misconstruing me my guy, im not saying i dont believe, youre trying to make this an argument that doesnt need to be

[slim dragon]

I mean, I also agree with Punch here
I don't consider KOS to be an issue in that kind of game, it's part of its point

I get it sucks, but nobody is here to just chill out and watch others live their lives without interacting
Or if they are, they chose the wrong game

[languid tundra]

^as above, im not saying KOS is something that needs to be hammered onto, im saying circumstantially there are times its not beneficial for anyone and at those times it may be a good idea to steer people into a different direction for a brief time, because i dunno about you but playing and ending up in an area that feels like im playing through powerpoint because theres so much carnage even the scavenger ai cant clean it up, isnt all that fun

and thats from either a carni or herbi side

because i play all the dinos

[slim dragon]

I agree, it's the word "disicentive" that triggers me

[languid tundra]

just change it to a word that is less triggering LOL, yeah I dont mean remove the fun of being a mass killer

[slim dragon]

I see many suggestions whining about KOS, and killing others in any form. If lag is you're problem, you're absolutely right.

[languid tundra]

just, give some sort of like "woah now my guy, theres lots of food here, time to dig in"

[slim dragon]

A lot of things need to be done, not against KOS specifically, but about why it happens and its consequences : lag, hunger, hotspot camping...

[languid tundra]

lag is 95% the problem though I would be lying if i said it wouldnt be nice if people would just eat the food for once instead of kill kill kill, i get its fun but come on

food is a good mention tho because lets be honest here, the food water drain is too damn fast for dinosaurs that went long long times between food and water

[slim dragon]

Yes, food drain and food values (especially for carnivores) are absurd

[languid tundra]

id love to vibe anywhere but oasis but theres just not enough food for either side and if you loose track of the water with shit nutrition, youre screwed

[wise sparrow]

Carno is like hypo carno but without the strength atm

[slim dragon]

Hopefully someday all of this will be fixed
Current diets implementation is really lacking

[languid tundra]

pachy is hypo rex but its head is the teeth LOL

[wise sparrow]

Once the bugs pachy abuses are fixed pachy will be fine imo

[languid tundra]

april fools patch, makes pachy do a U-turn when they try and ram any baby herbis ;>

[wise sparrow]

Honestly I dont feel bad for baby herbivores that die to other herbivores. It's kinda on you for trusting a random herbivore while you were still weak

Although you do probably have some self esteem issues if you do that regularly

[languid tundra]

its not even trusting herbs, pachy will be like some sort of homing missile, they spot a baby from the edge of view and its game over, ive seen em do it like, fam, go fuck up a carno or somethin

[wise sparrow]

Pachys like to relog to see through all the foliage to kill babys

[alpine plover]

Hey Punch, are ya lurking?

[shrewd crescent]

#balance-feedback message
I like this idea of a debuff of some kind for herbivores when they spend too long around corpses.

[scarlet onyx]

Why are people SO opposed to incentives to not waste food or bodies. I understand player freedom but don't you want a smooth game economy? Is the experience of DPSing the entire map to death with a mixpack clan really that special that we need to sacrifice not only food and player economy but increase lag and FPS drops by tenfold? Such a fun game design for the 5 people packing together with the most powerful combo of species no matter the diet lol I'm convinced anyone opposing this is simply babied by diet mixpacks

[wise sparrow]

@hasty coyote I mean the reason it feels like that is because most if our animals are ment to end fights quickly. Like that's the entire point of ambushes. The only endurance hunter we have is utah atm. This will be fixed by a larger roster

Also path of titans did the same thing and now their fights are just slug-fests that last ages

[alpine plover]

I disagree with Stego not needing to be in game
@alpine plover

If Stego is gone then Deino will simply go rogue

I love how people say the stego needs to be in game in order to keep the Deino in check like they can’t run from it lol it’s Stan sucks

And yes I already know:
"But Deino is waterlocked"
Tbh..eh?
Like, it can still stay on land indefinitely because they can also just go and drink like anything else, only that they have to do so more often.

Well, the same argument goes for Stego tho

[alpine plover]

No because nothing can kill a stego at all not even Deinos

You can just run from a Stego, can't you?
The thing doesn't run at Mach 10

And nothing can really kill Deino except Deino either.
8k HP, bleed resistance, 100% escape to water, still high dmg

Deinos come out of water because the map is shit and nothing comes to the water lol that’s a entirely different thing

The only thing you'd do is put Deino into a time-out until they finished healing

[alpine plover]

That is hardly my point

You literally just complained about Deinos being in land and stego needs to be in game to counter that

Yeah, exactly

So how was that not the point

Because you argued that Deini only comes out on Land because of the map

It does what you mean dude

No

Nothing goes to the water because of oasis

I mean: If Stego wasn't in the game Deino could be out on land indefinitely

There for Deino has no choice but to come out

That isn't my point

[alpine plover]

No it wouldn’t the food on a Deino is insanely good but the thirst is where it has to go to water or drink

Everyone goes to Oasis because

1. Massive "safe spot" because Deinos can't properly hunt there(which is true) but also because there are thousands of Stegos there that regulate the bastard from coming on Land and bullying everything
2. Mud pools
3. Food distribution

If Stego weren't there, Deino can still come out and go bully absolutely everything, which it can't do because well..stego.

Yeah Deino needs to drink rather often, but it can still drink, can stay on land indefinitely until something actually comes and kills it.
And if something does ever come close to killing it they can simply retreat back to water and be untouchable literally, which stego can't do.

So Stego is needed to regulate Deino.
If you were to remove Stego, then you need to remove Deino.
Or replace them with 2 better fitting animals(Bary & Kentro)

Stego a bully everything themselves they don’t need the Deino to bully anything

Wtf are you even talking about

If almost the whole discord is finding a problem with stego then there is a problem period

I am saying: If you get rid of Stego, hardly anything will change because then Deino will take its spot of bullying everything

And I'm not even saying Stego isn't a problem. I hate the fucker too.
But if you remove 1 then the other should be removed too since he will just take its place

Don’t get rid of it but it definitely needs a nerf

It needd changes, yes

It need definite and major changes

I have a few ideas to make it better

[keen plover]

Honestly, I dislike stego a lot and want it removed- but at the same time. By changing the map and having diets elsewhere, you could incentivise playables to not be around each other.

[dusky surge]

i mean... would stego need a nerf if the playerbase was better split? I feel like stego's power is directly attributed to the fact that everyone is at one spot at all times

[keen plover]

^ yeah pretty much

[dusky surge]

stego is primarily a defensive animal

in most cases, you can leave it alone and it can't really do anything to you

[alpine plover]

I do believe Stego could use a small change

Just to make its combat have abit more thought instead of: "Rmb go brrr"

[dusky surge]

I mean, that's quite literally what stego combat is

idk how you'd fix that lmao

[keen plover]

Exactly, the only thing that annoys me about stego is not even just stego. It's the mixherds. It's a slight annoyance that would change with different areas for herbis

[alpine plover]

Nerf the damage or stamina

[alpine plover]

Front Jab: 1.25 K dmg, 10% stam cost
Side jab: 900 dmg, 7,5% stam cost
Side-Back jab: 825 dmg, 5,5% stam cost
Back-Jab: 750 dmg, 5% Stam cost

[dusky surge]

wtf

[alpine plover]

This already makes Stegos put more thought into their swings

[dusky surge]

i'll be honest

i dont like the idea of making stego need more thought

the thing is literally one of the dumbest dinosaurs in history

[alpine plover]

I disagree, I think it needs to have some more thought

[dusky surge]

having it be a fucking head empty animal makes perfect sense

[alpine plover]

Yes, but we are not heas empty animals.

[dusky surge]

also that's extremely poorly conveyed

and would feel terrible in a fight

[alpine plover]

How?

How?

[dusky surge]

Inconsistent damage numbers fucking suck dude

If I use RMB, I want that RMB to do the same shit

Damn, my camera was facing the wrong way, guess I lose a ton of stam and miss haha

[alpine plover]

So then make Pachy tap and charge ram deal exact same fracture and dmg

[dusky surge]

Except that's not the same

[alpine plover]

Make teno kick and tail slam have the exact same stam and dmg

[dusky surge]

Because that relies on movement and charge, which is more dependent on the player than the position of the opponent

Having systems where I can abuse areas where the stego does less damage, is frankly, dogshit

[alpine plover]

Eh

[dusky surge]

Boy wow these are not at all comparable to what you are suggesting

In both cases you mentioned, the animal is in control of what attack they are throwing out and the opponent has no say in it. In the stego scenario, the opponent can directly control your stam drain, damage output and more based on position

[alpine plover]

Stego side jab would still 2 shot a Carno, Teno and 1 Shot Utah and Pachy, nothing changes on that front only that they can't spam it as much.
In return their attack is alot faster and still has very high dps

[dusky surge]

That's not requiring more brainwork from the stego, just gives the opponent more ways to fuck with them

Also, that UTTERLY nerfs stego for no good reason

[alpine plover]

I disagree.

[dusky surge]

Like in the worst possible way of nerfing it

[alpine plover]

I still disagree

[dusky surge]

The worst way you can nerf something is to make it outright feel worse to play

This would not be more fun for the stego player

[alpine plover]

Hardly anything would change

[dusky surge]

It would be utterly infuriating

10% stam and the opponent HAS to be in front of you in order for you to do the previous 1.25K damage? That's a huge change

When you could do 1.25K damage in any direction for 5% stam before

And the front swing takes literal fucking ages

I understand you dislike stegos but having their gameplay outright feel worse in combat ain't it chief

[alpine plover]

Side jab: Still 2 shots Carno, Teno.
1 shots Utah and Pachy
Still has high DPS, but takes abit more stamina now.

Front jab: slower but longer reach, higher damage. Still 1 shots Utah and Pachy, 2 shots teno and carno
1 shots them to the head still.

[dusky surge]

You realise how vulnerable this makes it to deino, right?

[alpine plover]

How? It still out-damages Deino with the side jab.

[dusky surge]

So? It also has 2K less health

[alpine plover]

And?

[trim ginkgo]

Stego is like,, god with no consequences rn,,

It needs to be vulnerable to something. Sure, edit the numbers of that suggestion or smth so it’s fair but like. Stego vs anything isn’t fair rn-

[dusky surge]

Actually, it probably CAN'T outdamage deino with the side-jab after that

[alpine plover]

You still kill the deino much faster with your swings than he would with their alt bite WHILE he can do that very same action way less already than you

[dusky surge]

Eh

No, I'm fine with nerfing stego, but not like that

That's legit just super icky

[alpine plover]

Stego having 1.25 K dmg with a SUPER fast attack that also barely takes any stamina just makes it fucking brainless to play

[dusky surge]

It's only fast with the side-jab

[alpine plover]

Exactly

[dusky surge]

The front and back-jab are super slow

[alpine plover]

Extremely fucking fast

[dusky surge]

So suggest to slow down the side-jab instead of fucking with stam and damage in an extremely unfun way?

[alpine plover]

Stego has the highest DPS in the game, and even with that nerf it would STILL have the highest DPS

[dusky surge]

Yea, and?

It's a stego.

[alpine plover]

Oh fuck off with that

[dusky surge]

What should have the highest DPS if not a fucking stego

[alpine plover]

"It's a Deino so it should obviously 1 shot the stego to the head as that is an almost 9-10T bite down on that tiny head"

[dusky surge]

I genuinely don't know who would have the best DPS if not a stego

Why are you offended by the concept of the stegosaurus having good DPS

[alpine plover]

Stego has:
Extremely high HP/Blood pool
Variety of attacks that have different functions but for some reason still have the exact same massive dmg + low stamina drain

[slim dragon]

Hyper rex

[alpine plover]

Literl brainless combat

[dusky surge]

We aren't talking for the far future lmao

[alpine plover]

Just swing spam and win

That's it

Just rmb a few times and win

[dusky surge]

Again

[alpine plover]

How is that any more fun than:
"I have these different attacks that do different things"

[dusky surge]

It's a stego. I genuinely don't know why you want it to be doing fucking mathematical formulas while fighting

[alpine plover]

Because brainless fighting is still hardly fun for both the opponent and the defender

[dusky surge]

BTW, it's not making the stego gameplay smarter

[slim dragon]

I agree with wavepoole tho, having the same attack do different things depending on which direction you look at is terrible, and that's the reason Teno's controls have been remade

[dusky surge]

The stego gameplay still boils down to point and click in the direction of predator

[alpine plover]

I play Stego myself and I made these changes because I actually think they'd make it more fun and thoughtful

[dusky surge]

All this changes is how absolutely fucked a stego is against a deino and how much other players can exploit it

Unless you can control where your enemy is, all this would do is make your attacks inconsistent at best and unusable in certain situations at worst

[slim dragon]

Stego getting a nerf to the jab and additionnal attacks to do other things ? Sure. Changing jab's damage and stamina cost depending on the direction ? Just wtf.

[dusky surge]

^

Here's my suggestion:
Up the stam of the tail jab and animation time. Maybe make it an alt-attack, since it fits the bill pretty well
Maybe add a tail swipe as the new RMB that only covers your backside but you can use while moving

[alpine plover]

Let's just agree to disagree

[dusky surge]

That way you have two seperate attacks that do two different things without having them all bound to the exact same input but with wild inconsistencies depending on direction

[alpine plover]

So what you are saying is

Alt + rmb + direction = Side jab

And that way you could change numbers and stam

[dusky surge]

Alt + LMB or alt + RMB. Either works

What?

Omni-directional jab, not just side

The jab would remain the same

Just be rebound and with more stam and longer anim

[alpine plover]

Everything stego does rn is jab

[dusky surge]

Yes

It's not exactly going to bite

[alpine plover]

Yeah? So I don't see what you are saying

[dusky surge]

What the fuck do you want to do? If you want the stego to do more than just jab, give it a move that isn't jab

[alpine plover]

I never said that?

[dusky surge]

^

[alpine plover]

Yeah? I know I said that, and I didn't mean it in a negative way

[dusky surge]

If the stego isn't outright in complete control of the damage they're doing and the stam they're draining, that's a bad change. And don't say they are because in that scenario, they are not

[alpine plover]

So then how about this:

Default RMB = Front / Back jab dependant on where your camera is

Alt + RMB = Side jab, dependant on which side your camera is
This one does 900 dmg and takes 7.5 % stam

[dusky surge]

Default LMB? Why? Just leave it as bite

[alpine plover]

I meant rmb fuck

[dusky surge]

Ehhhh, man, idk. Having two jabs bound to two different keys sounds... Wrong

[alpine plover]

Welp, I give up

[dusky surge]

With the teno, the RMB kicks, allowing you to continue motion but lacks range, whereas the alt-RMB renders you stationary, but you can better control where you're aiming. With this, it feels like you're segmenting one attack into two binds

It leads to a clunky experience

Why not slow down the side-jab to better keep them in line with the other jabs?

[alpine plover]

Well, I thought if there's 1 dino who should have the highest DPS it'd be stego.

Like I said, agree to disagree

bro how about make stego deal 500dmg that way its equal to Deino

and maybe decrease it's health a bit cuz nothing can kill it, things should be able to die no matter what animal it is

[slim dragon]

Stego deserves way higher damage than deino

[alpine plover]

not that high

[slim dragon]

500 damage would make it straight out unviable, that's more than halving its damage

[alpine plover]

maybe 900 max

there is no reason why it has 1200+ damage when nothing can kill it in game

[slim dragon]

Why shouldn't stego have damage that high ? It's supposed to be able to defend itself against apexes

Right now nothing is made to be able to kill stego, except utah

[alpine plover]

there arent any apexes beside stego in game currently

even a mega pack of utahs cant kill a stego

[slim dragon]

And reducing stego's damage wouldn't change anything with the utah matchup

[alpine plover]

it would give deino a fighting chance and give the stego a reason not to chase down or stand in the water and attack deinos

at that point thats not defensive its aggresive

[slim dragon]

If deino can beat stego on land, then it becomes unbeatable and turns into the new toxic unkillable dino

[alpine plover]

im not saying a deino should kill it on land thats insane but it should at least have a chance to but rn it gets slaughtered

[slim dragon]

That was literally mentionee in the above conversation, stego rn is the only thing that stops deinos from going freely on land

[alpine plover]

the ONLY reason deinos even go on land is cuz of oasis, people love to say just eat fish like thats a solution

[slim dragon]

Why should it have a chance ? It's literally going out of its environment to attack something that it shouldn't prey upon

[alpine plover]

it literally has to leave its environment to get food what are you saying

it has no choice but to go on land

oasis and mudpools made the deino literally unviable

[slim dragon]

Deino is supposed to ambush dinos who go for a drink

[alpine plover]

anytime someone says nerf stegos people go ape shit

nothing gets a drink because of oasis

[slim dragon]

I know right now it has few opportunities to do so, but making it able to kill stegos is not the solution

[alpine plover]

so stegos shouldnt die to any dinosaur huh lol talk about balance

utah packs get slaughtered and carnos are a easy target

[slim dragon]

That's chaning the entire game around a gameplay problem instead of fixing that one problem, and is not the way to go

[alpine plover]

stego is a apex in a game with no other apexes it needs its stats nerfed till other apexes release

[slim dragon]

Stegos should die to utah packs and terrestrial apexes
Maybe allo packs too

[alpine plover]

bro what other apexes are there and i keep repeating utahs are useless against stegos with its broken pounce

three allos can easily kill a stego and a solo allo can kill a sub and below stego but allo isnt even close to being in the game

stego is a god in this game and no one can do anything except other stegos

[slim dragon]

I'm more for fixing bugs and issues before nerfing or buffing things like hell

[alpine plover]

the only thing i can thing of is give utah further distance when coming off a pounce and then yeah utahs can kill stegos

[slim dragon]

Once there are no more issues, or at least the only ones left are manageable, we can take a look at balance

[alpine plover]

with the current distance of a dismount utahs lose every time

[slim dragon]

But balancing around bugs and broken mechanics is just stupid

[slim dragon]

Then it's Utahs who need a buff, not stegos who need a nerf

[alpine plover]

i mean they say they are working on bug fixes and balance changes so i hope they solve these issues

[slim dragon]

Especially not a damage nerf

[alpine plover]

so you saying a deino shouldnt damage and kill a stego cuz it definitely should as well as give fractures

[slim dragon]

Why should it ?

[alpine plover]

why should something with a stronger bite than a rex deal fracture damage hmmm i dont know maybe cuz it just makes sense

plus it would make things like stego be able to get killed while keeping its current stats with no nerf

it makes no sense why a deino wouldnt deal fracture damage, if you survive that strong ass bite there needs to be a chance of a fracture at least a 50% chance

[slim dragon]

I'm not talking about fracture damage, I'm talking about the reason why it should kill stego

Also fractures aren't chance-based anymore

[alpine plover]

cuz stego is not invincible and it needs to be killed by others what are you even saying

thats stupid to make stego unkillable

[slim dragon]

Do you forget things right after you read them or what ? We agreed that Utahs are the things that are supposed to be killing stegos

[alpine plover]

also if it isnt chance based then thats even more of a reason to deal fracture damage

[slim dragon]

And later on allo and apexes

Deino isn't supposed to go after stego

[alpine plover]

so deinos should just get killed by stegos lmaoo yeah ok

if a deino is basking a stego runs up at it it needs to be scared not have the deino run away

[slim dragon]

It might be nice for it to have a way to ambush a stego and drag it into water, but deino definitely shouldn't be able to bite stegos to death

[slim dragon]

No, if a deino is caught basking by an apex, it better has to run

[alpine plover]

yes it should wtf

[slim dragon]

You literally want deinorex ?

[alpine plover]

stego is not some god teir thing that only a utah should be able to kill

[slim dragon]

That's the definition of apexes and apex killers tho

And deino is none of them, it's an ambusher

[alpine plover]

both the deino and stego need to think twice before crossing each other instead of stegos running around oneshotting everything

[slim dragon]

Yes, that's why it would be fine for deinos to have a way to drag stegos into water

[alpine plover]

so its ok to have a apex in game without having a apex killer? utah is not a apex killer

[slim dragon]

That way deinos can't go on land and bully stegos, and stegos can't go in water and bully deinos

[alpine plover]

stegos already go in the water and bully deinos lmaoo

[slim dragon]

It literally is. What do you think pack tactics and pounce are for ?

[alpine plover]

bro the pounce doesnt work against stegos lmaoo what

[slim dragon]

You do forget everything right after you read...

[alpine plover]

no what you are saying is utah is the only that should kill a stego and thats not right

[slim dragon]

I'm not saying that, just scroll up

I'm saying deino, carno and ptera shouldn't

[alpine plover]

something as big as a deino should not have to cower in fear of a stego

they both should avoid each other is all im saying

[slim dragon]

In water ? No. On land ? Yes.

[alpine plover]

and if deino can deal fracture that would ensure that

in water no it shouldnt deal fracture but on land yes and it would allow a deino to properly defend itself from a spam killing stego

[slim dragon]

No, I'm saying deino shouldn't fear a stego in water but it should fear one if it's on land
In no world should fracture damage be dependent on wether you're submerged or not

[alpine plover]

im done cuz we clearly see two different perspectives

[sinful cove]

Why tf would a deino need fracture on land and not in the water

Its not a land animal smh

[sonic needle]

why tf shouldnt deino deal Fracture in the Water? No matter where its Biting if its in the water or on land it always will fracture.

[tribal thistle]

y'know now that I'm thinking about it maybe Troodons are meant to be Stego killers, that's assuming the venom of a large pack is actually potent

[wise sparrow]

Stego can literally 1 shot troodon with its BITE

[fresh laurel]

So is deino bite weaker in water or...

Cus i dont how land or water changes its bite

[stark knoll]

It doesn't

[languid tundra]

In the context of modern animal composition, yep crocs will munch down, do a twist and snap goes the bone of, i dunno, a zebra? but here we are talking about a deino vs dinosaurs, for sure some dinos would be folded over a deino knee, but at the same time, there are things that it wouldnt be able to do that to, balance wise, stegs should be strong, as should anky and trikes, the whole evolution of theirs was to be hard to kill, to be attacking one, especially a healthy one, should be a life or death risk if youre not a dedicated predator for it, now juvi stegs sure, munch away as a croc, and yes stegs do hit hard as hell but they arent impossible to kill either, you rarely see a modern croc killing a big game animal solo, like 5 crocs will roll up and take the victim down together. tldr, your fave doesnt have to have all the cool kill people quickly things, you need ups and downs just like everyone else, and this isnt the finished game so chill.

[hollow canyon]

Rex has a stronger bite than Deino

[alpine plover]

no it doesnt lol

[hollow canyon]

It does though

we have the bones of things bitten by Deinosuchus

They aren't crashed nor pulverised

Deino's bite came short off the real heavy hitters like Tyrannosaurus and Purussaurus

It's a big croc but being big isn't the only thing that determines how damaging the bite of something is

and T.rex's bite was more damaging than that of a Deinosuchus

Meanwhile Purussaurus caused a femur of one of its victims to outright implode upon being bitten.

Deino in general shouldn't have fractures lest everything is given fractures all of a sudden

which I don't think should be the case

[languid tundra]

agreed, not everything needs to be a bone breaker

[hollow canyon]

Deino's approach to hunting isn't at all reliant on bonebreaking things either way so idk why it would need a bonebreak all of a sudden, if you mess up your ambush and run out of stamina causing your prey to escape that's on you, you shouldn't be given a bonus of a fracturing bite so that the thing you couldn't drown now can't escape you because you also got to break its leg.

Deino, Carno and Utah are the last animals that need fracture in this game.

[fresh laurel]

Oh god

Utah with fractures

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I was just throwing out the most obvious terrible candidates for applying fractures with their attacks

[fresh laurel]

But..

[hollow canyon]

Not that I think Tenonto or Stego should have fractures atm

[fresh laurel]

Wow utah breaking legs lmao

[hollow canyon]

ikr

it's like... not the thing that Utah relies on

at all...

[fresh laurel]

Like imagine your dilo breaking its leg to utah

[fresh laurel]

Still would be nice to sense the blood levels your prey has

[languid tundra]

people be like "steggo op steggo op" but no ones mentioning the dryo whos only goal in life is to spam 1 and die, also utah with break would be cancerous

[fresh laurel]

Like darker blood drops mean almost done bleeding out

[fresh laurel]

Thought that was ptera but ye

[languid tundra]

well, ptera can get high ground

[fresh laurel]

I remember dryo release when its bite could allow it to 1v1 utah lmao...

[languid tundra]

dryo be condemned to the life of fodder

[hollow canyon]

Stego is kind of too strong in the current game but I mean... it's Stegosaurus among a bunch of midgets and a big croc that isn't meant to be fighting things its own size anyways

[fresh laurel]

So can utah

[hollow canyon]

should Deino vs Stego be more equal than now?

Perhaps, yea

[languid tundra]

bruh i dont see no utahs on the massive cliffs tho ;>

[hollow canyon]

But if anything I'd just tone down the damage output of Stego

[fresh laurel]

I think deino should be able to kill stego with a good ambush

But in open just nope

[languid tundra]

damage stay the same, swing speed reduction in water to deter water camping

[hollow canyon]

That will never be happening most likely unless idk they nerf Stego into the ground

Cause worst case scenario Stego will just run away from Deino

[fresh laurel]

To be fair thats just u2 stego

[hollow canyon]

Well update 3.5 Stego was getting butchered by Deino relatively easily

[fresh laurel]

True

[hollow canyon]

as in, ok it wasn't "easy" per se, but a good Deino could kill Stegos without much trouble

[languid tundra]

Deino shouldnt be able to take out a steggo easily, injured or poor diet steggo, make that something good to do, but in saying that, right now, you can kill them with deinos

[fresh laurel]

Actually you didnt need skill

You just spammed alt bite

[hollow canyon]

It's not so much about the skill

it's more so about how you start the fight

that fight was kind of 50/50

[languid tundra]

if your deino head isnt in the steggos ass, youre trading til one goes down

otherwise, you die to spikes

[hollow canyon]

if Deino didn't get a good headstart with headbites and didn't kill Stego fast enough it was just dying

[fresh laurel]

Or to head

[hollow canyon]

the fact that the health pools of both increased caused the match up to go more in Stego's favour, that coupled with the changes to how locational works

[fresh laurel]

Deino having a tug of war mechanic for anything pass its 4ton lunge limit could work

[languid tundra]

ive had that ^

[fresh laurel]

Like a sick adult would lose stam faster than normal

[languid tundra]

full steggo, the deino grabbed on and shuffled me about

[fresh laurel]

Meaning dein could kill a sick apex if it got the jump

But if a full stam or healthy giga or something pulled up...

[languid tundra]

i just feel like, if youre a deino and youre taking on a full steg thats perfectly healthy, you better be good and better be committed with strategy.

[fresh laurel]

I think the whole deino should kill apexes easy came from hope trailer

[languid tundra]

if on the ground that is

[fresh laurel]

A sick stego should beg to desync lol

But a tug of war mechanic wouldnt need deino stat changes if you think about it...

[languid tundra]

I mean, its easy to not be killed by stegs, dont take them on LOL, and we have like 1/4 of the dino lineup so you want a dino that can smash stegs? wait til its released :>

stegs cant kill you when swimming unless youre afk for 2 hours while it bites you to death, and its very easy to outrun as a ground/flyer dino

[fresh laurel]

[languid tundra]

imo, the more troublesome dino is buggy pachy, they need a little ironing out

but that also could just be that they have popularity right now so its hard to find pachys that arent in kill squads

[fresh laurel]

Its really just pachy bugs

Also why the heck does alt attack do cc

[languid tundra]

why the heck indeed

[fresh laurel]

Also

Pachy endlag increase

[alpine plover]

@wanton hedge It doesn't

[prime igloo]

I think when you hit a dino with pachy u BUMP in to the dino instead of going through it [ Legacy ]I have a 6 hour cooldown on suggestions ;-;

[stark knoll]

This is already in evrima

Legacy won't be receiving any changes or additions

[sinful cove]

God another cringe and highly abusable vicinity debuff suggestion

Do people stop and think for 2 seconds about how disastrous their suggestion would be

[river nacelle]

Even if you might not agree with a suggestion I don't think that calling it cringe helps anything. If anything I think it would just discourage people from posting suggestions at all if what they get posted gets called things like that.

[tribal thistle]

I don't know if i'm allowed to suggest balance ideas for the future but could galli's kick create mild fractures to creatures the size of it or at least a small stun, ( i know i know, that would be annoying ) otherwise its only tactic against something like a utah is to run, and look at the size of its leg, a good kick to the head would give it something of a fracture, i don't think it should do body and leg fractures however

[sinful cove]

Imo galli should be faster than utah anyway but a bit slower than carno. It generally shouldnt be fighting a utah

Would make sense for its kicks to do something like frac/cc to smaller animals though

Or even a momentum kick = fracture but it stops the galli's acceleration. Standing/walking kick = rapid attack like a cassowary that deals a good amount of bleed for its weight class

[hollow canyon]

Quite frankly speaking it would be better if suggestions that are not very thought were to not be posted at all. There's a tonne of basically worthless spam in the feedback channels that brings nothing to the discussion and offers no actual solutions(or terrible solutions).

[sinful cove]

the "debuff mix packers" and "debuff body guarders" and "debuff megapacks/herds" has been posted a million times in the feedback channels, and yeah it is obvious that very little thought is put in to it because of just how obviously exploitable it is

[rancid bluff]

getting rid of mega packs is easy as you just have to limit their chats more to where they can't talk to people outside of their group if the group is full
however this can be countered with people just hanging around eachother anyways like mixpackers do or just using discord calls

[sinful cove]

no, so many people use discord for mix packs anyway and those are very common

if outside chats can be used so often for mix packs they can be used for mega packs

especially since we basically just have local chat now

[rancid bluff]

yeah which is the main problem, there isn't really a way to stop mega or mix packs since chat limits can just be avoided with discord and every counter people come up with is abusable

unless of course it just kills everyone in the area, a nuclear implant in every dinosaur that causes them to explode when they're near a different species for too long

nobody wins

[sinful cove]

things like that unfortunately are probably best left to moderators

would be funny as hell if there was just a massive wipe explosion when ever the game deemed there was a mega/mix pack though

a meteor just wipes a whole group of allos because some dryos follow them around for a hit job

[rancid bluff]

you're just a deino chillin' in a river and you hear a massive KABOOM and look in the distance and see the classic mushroom shape of a nuclear explosion at oasis

[sinful cove]

not together

cross faction mix packs are awful. mix packs within the faction can be fine on less ofensive animals

[rancid bluff]

I don't really mind mix herds, it's the mega packs and mix packs I hate, especially the cross factions

[sinful cove]

but bypassing balanced downsides by mixpacking different predators together, or by mixing high damage herbis with fast herbis to track victims is nasty

[rancid bluff]

all dinos have a better chance of surviving by mixpacking, that's why they do it

[sinful cove]

like in legacy where diablos and maias would keep tabs on a targeted victim while trikes would catch up. or utahs mix packing with a rex that counters the rex's low stam which made it balanced, creating a disaster kill squad

[rancid bluff]

para and acro are not useless at all

[sinful cove]

para should be able to cc and flee, hadros in general should be CCing and hauling ass

[rancid bluff]

magy though, yeah magy sucks

[sinful cove]

magy can just die

[rancid bluff]

don't mixpack with magys, just let them die

[sinful cove]

bait magy for a mix pack then kill it

[rancid bluff]

yes

[sinful cove]

end their misery

they obviously misclicked on the selection menu

[rancid bluff]

playing magy is double suffering
you're already playing the isle, but now you're playing magy

[sinful cove]

i wanna break magys shins and leave it to die

pachy squad breaking all 4 of magy's legs

[rancid bluff]

how would they eat a magy? it tastes bad remember

[sinful cove]

make steam achievements for killing magy, one for every other playable and also one for magy so even magy has a reason to kill magy

[rancid bluff]

that'd give magy some use

possum magy niche: nocturnal, plays dead and smells like rotten corpses, hope the predator doesn't risk it and eat you alive

[sinful cove]

after killing a magy on every playable you unlock a special magy slayer skin for dinos and a magy skin leather jacket for mercs

[sinful cove]

skunk magy that sprays in your face and turns you in to a putrid scent cloud and prevents you from using your scent ability

[dusky surge]

magy is cool

magy is cool

[sinful cove]

wrong opinion

[rancid bluff]

if you kill every playable with magy then you unlock an edgy black and yellow skin for every dino even mercs

indoraptor utah in evrima

[sinful cove]

indoraptor colored magy

[dusky surge]

"Well, sure that a good half the roster in this game are entirely fictionalised genetic monstrosities inspired by the irl animal which have drastic modifications for the sake of gameplay but there's absolutely no way the Isle devs could make magy viable."

IDK maybe they could make it something that isn't a 1-1 copy of irl magy

[sinful cove]

jokes aside thats not really the point since we can see magy, he has no adaptions that wouldnt look outrageously stupid and immersion breaking to survive an allo or alberto attack

unless they go with skunk magy

or... sea cucumber magy

[rancid bluff]

tasting bad will save magy from everything guys

[sinful cove]

i love how in magy's concept he's giving cera a little shove, then in ceras concept he straight up fucking decapitates magy. lowkey even the devs know

[rancid bluff]

I mean, they're already adding diarrhea so

[dusky surge]

You could easily give magy decent bleed resist, a tail-whip with decent damage and CC and body slams

[sinful cove]

god domt remind me

[rancid bluff]

yeah cause a magy tail whip is gonna break an albertos leg

[dusky surge]

that proves nothing. They always give the predator an "awesome kill" moment in the concept art and the herbis never really get that.

[sinful cove]

what will any of that do to save him from THE ALLOSAURUSUS (epic dino) (based dino) or albertosaurus, or sub rex, or any mid tier+ endurance predator

[dusky surge]

I don't think magy should be a plains animal firstly. Allo should be.

[rancid bluff]

don't forget, how will that save magy from pachy

[dusky surge]

Like no reason for magy to be in plains honestly

[sinful cove]

so magy should rely on allo players being bad at moving around some trees and be stuck forever in the forest or he will die on sight to any fast mid tier or pack animal like utah that can thive in the forest

[dusky surge]

I reckon magy should have bleed res honestly

[sinful cove]

man troodon packs are gonna have a blast with magy

and dilos

[rancid bluff]

make magy resistant to all damage, now it's viable

[sinful cove]

give magy a big skateboard so he can escape allo

[rancid bluff]

give magy a driving license

[spare badger]

I mean it has osteroderms so I wouldn't doubt it...

[rancid bluff]

some scutes on the neck isn't going to stop an alberto or troodon or dilo from biting its fat sauropod ass

[sinful cove]

magy's channeld rmb attack begins as he inhales deeply, inflating the skin on his neck, before releasing a chemical blast from his mouth that ignites in a hot white flame when it comes in contact with oxygen

[spare badger]

DMG reduction
Doesn't mean it's gonna survive a hit tho

[sinful cove]

dg reduction on a below tenonto sized animal against a mid tier that is faster than it

[rancid bluff]

if you hold the air for too long you explode, bringing us back to my dinosaur implosion idea to prevent mix and mega packs

an admin spawns in the middle of a mix or mega pack and explodes

[sinful cove]

spontanious combustion magy explodes and ignites himself and anybody else within his blast radius

[rancid bluff]

true horror game

[sinful cove]

tbh best viable magy suggestion to date

[rancid bluff]

how to make magy viable:
skunk magy
sea cucumber magy
nuclear magy

[sinful cove]

unironically and jokes aside i'd take skunk magy because it looks plausible enough and is a good deterrent

[rancid bluff]

that animation would look cursed though, especially since to my knowledge there is no footage of how a skunk sprays, meaning the isle devs would likely have to improvise

[sinful cove]

you're welcome

[sinful cove]

make it spin its tail like a hippo and just release a spray cloud

[rancid bluff]

when you said that I imagined its tail spinning like a boat propeller
new viable magy option
it speeds through rivers at rapid speeds to escape predators like a motor boat

[sinful cove]

baja, amarga or shuno moment

[sinful cove]

look up hippo poo in the gifs idk if id get in troubel for posting it lol

[rancid bluff]

I wheezed

[sinful cove]

magy needs this lmao

[rancid bluff]

isn't its tail too long

[sinful cove]

nahhh nahh its fine

[rancid bluff]

I'm pretty sure how skunks spray is they do a handstand and fire

[sinful cove]

magy handstand

poo club.................................

i

[rancid bluff]

in the isle shitting update, if a magy had diarrhea, it reaches its tail into its... I think you know where this goes

[sinful cove]

oh no

[rancid bluff]

the odd smelling mud

[sinful cove]

god now you got this in my head

like that elephant video

[rancid bluff]

recycled mud

[sinful cove]

if you know the elephant video im speaking of

[rancid bluff]

I think I do

[sinful cove]

lmao

[rancid bluff]

aggro herbis camping the mudpool? not a problem with the isle's new feces update! eat a certain plant to have diarrhea and wallow in it! you can now be smelled but your footprints are invisible and you're just plain nasty to eat

imagine what'd be done with modding and shit in the game at once

or someone adds their own sound files into it...

dog shit

PPPppPppPpPpPppPppPSHSHSHHSHSHSHSHHHHHHHHSSSSSSSSSSSS

5 minutes on loop and when it's over a flush sound

you're a carno trotting around and hear in a bush "PPPPPPppPpPppPpSHAHHSHSHSHHSHhSHSHSHHSHSHSHSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHSSSSSSSSSsssssssssss" as a dinosaur 4 calls

the fact this is a possible future for the isle

it is all unfortunately isle related

[sinful cove]

begins magy conversation, directs conversation to skunk magy and shit, refuses to elaborate, leaves

[rancid bluff]

I remember hearing once that magy would be able to eat berries out of other dinosaurs reach and that's how it'd taste bad
how would a theri not reach those berries

[sinful cove]

maybe magy can jump super super high to get the most toppiest of top berries

[rancid bluff]

51 feet up, just higher than a brachi can reach, then it deploys its parachute to land safely

[sinful cove]

as it should

[wind ivy]

Magy can grow it's body parts at will
It can give itself really long legs and stuff

[sinful cove]

now its jump serves as both an epic aquisition of delicious fruits and all your pain and suffering caused by clicking magy in the selection menu is brought to a relieving end

[rancid bluff]

that one guy whose favorite dino is magy

[dusky surge]

I mean, realistically speaking, magy having bleed resist and maybe a bit of damage resist wouldn't feel unrealistic with it being covered in thick skin and osteoderms

[sinful cove]

yeah it wwould make sense for it to have light resist to incoming damage/status effect applications BUT not enough to save it from things as big as allo and alberto

[dusky surge]

well yes

Ehhh

[sinful cove]

that would just look dumb, its few and far in between scutes fending off the claws or jaws of the mid tier carnivores

carno just rams magy over lmao

[rancid bluff]

I think a carno would have to ram a magy's head to knock it over

[dusky surge]

Magy seems like it would sport more passive defence to teno's active defense. Both are around the same weight, but I'd say magy is harder to kill.

Teno has no passive defences, it's entirely actively defensive

[rancid bluff]

magy wouldn't crush you to the ground with its tail that makes up 2/3 of its length, because its tail ain't that long

[sinful cove]

yeah but would a minor passive defense really compare to the powerful active defense of tenonto? a bit of bleed resist+damage resist only prolongs your suffering unless you can eliminate or drive off your threat

[dusky surge]

Magy could have a tail whip tho, which is honestly something I'd really like to see from it. Covering a good angle, able to stagger/knockdown creatures behind it depending on weight and size.

Could be used while moving also

[sinful cove]

all youre saying is an afk magy might last longer than an afk tenonto

[rancid bluff]

or be shat on by them

[dusky surge]

Well, yes, which isn't something that's necessarily bad

[sinful cove]

tail whip with that wimpy noodle vs the powerful blunt weapon equivalent to guts sword that tenonto wields

[dusky surge]

Magy's tail does not look wimpy lmao

[rancid bluff]

compared to tenos, yes it does

[sinful cove]

it doesnt exactly look strong compared to tenonto either

[dusky surge]

Teno has a fucking massive tail that almost defines the animal, it's not comparable

[sinful cove]

also isnt magy lighter weight than tenonto as well

[dusky surge]

No

Magy is the heavier of the two

[sinful cove]

coulda sworn he was charted as like 1.2

now i gotta relook

[dusky surge]

1.65

Teno and magy are around the same weight. Only 50kg difference

Literally under what proof

In the Isle? lmaoooo

[sinful cove]

nova's chart has magy at 1,325 if the devs dont have an official weight stated, which i havent seen but idk i dont keep a close eye

[sinful cove]

dam even that is inconsistent

[dusky surge]

lmao

[sinful cove]

i gues ill wait for the devs to say if hes heavier or lighter than teno before dunking on magy's weight in comparison for now lol

yeah im still gonna dunk on magy's other... 'features' or lack thereof

remember when kissen said it was gonna be fast lmao

im salty that these two BADASSES were overlooked in favor of magy

[dusky surge]

Teno is the fastest quadruped according to the devs

[sinful cove]

sadge

but also we saw magys run reel and it was laughable

next to allo's

magy looks like hes probably mouthbreathing so loud when he runs

just wheeze wheeze wheeze everyting in a half mile radius can hear it attempting to flee for its life

emphasis on "attempting

[rancid bluff]

I can see bajad being chosen, shuno while cool is a bit small though

it's bajad but with the spikes pointed in a less effective way

[sinful cove]

shuno is a bit small?? bruh magy

at least shuno has a weapon

[rancid bluff]

magy's just there for shits and giggles

[sinful cove]

Still a beautiful representation of magy's inevitable fate

amarga or baja are both cool, baja's forwar facing mohawk is more badass imo

maybe with an ambush headshot? idk

[rancid bluff]

idk but you'll be lookin' like swiss cheese when it's over

[sinful cove]

also inevitable lol

id assume kentro will be awful against bleed itself, so hitting it on the head with a bite and baiting is probably the best shot

[rancid bluff]

also what was magy's first mainstream appearance

[rancid bluff]

kentro friendly fire

[dusky surge]

kentro will likely be as awful against bleed as every other animal but deino lmao

[sinful cove]

i think he was in a documentary

[rancid bluff]

OHHH right

planet dinosaur, where the babies were eaten by a hatzeg

[sinful cove]

lmao poor magy getting dunke don by a pterosaur, humiliating

[rancid bluff]

well many hatzegs, I wish we got to see an adult get bullied by the hatzegs

[sinful cove]

quetz, magy top predator in isle

[rancid bluff]

magy gets ptsd when it sees a quetz

[sinful cove]

make quetz get all 3 nutrients from a magy

[rancid bluff]

if magy isn't one quetz diet I'm gonna riot

diet and riot

[sinful cove]

make magy lose oxygen when it runs so it can kill itself easier and pick a better animal

[dusky surge]

i had a dream where quetz had trash and other quetz on its diet last night

now i refuse to believe there is any other ideal diet for it

trash cannibal bird lessgo

[sinful cove]

quetz dining from merc dumpsters

[rancid bluff]

"it's delicious, what is it?"
"an empty gallon of milk"
"fascinating"

[sinful cove]

quetz eats enough toxic waste and unlocks the type G strain

[dusky surge]

If carno can swim, magy can

[rancid bluff]

"one mans trash is another mans... food?"

semiaquatic sauropod return

imagine if brachi's courting animation is ptera's courting animation

"UGH WHAT KIND OF DANCE MOVE IS THAT!?"
"I saw a bird do it once..."

human nesting with graphic egg laying

[hollow canyon]

Nova only made Magy larger when Cerato was supposed to be getting larger based on that tooth, Magy doesn't weigh 1.6t

Pretty sure it won't weigh that much in the game either

the devs specifically wanted a small sauropod

It would be just a complete joke to pick a small sauropod because it's small and then upsize it just because

[sinful cove]

Look like small sauropods to me

[rancid bluff]

1kg sauropod

[rancid bluff]

oh shuno's bigger than I remembered

[hollow canyon]

Apparently they wanted something smaller

Magy's been getting consistent upsizes on Nova's chart to salvage this animal

[sinful cove]

They shouldn’t even bother salvaging it at this point, they should just maximize on its meme potential

[hollow canyon]

Just put it in, give it an easy growth, make it all about hiding and not being seen and there you go - a difficult animal to play all around for some hardcore players

[rancid bluff]

I mean, no dinosaur is its accurate size in the isle, so who knows what'll happen with magy

[hollow canyon]

If this animal ends up being op it will make this game a joke tbh

[hollow canyon]

This isn't true

[sinful cove]

God

[rancid bluff]

well not none but most are undersized

[hollow canyon]

How are they undersized? The only undersized one in the current game is Deinosuchus.

Carno is accurate, Dryo is accurate, Stego is(kind of) accurate

[rancid bluff]

stego and utah (utah is barely undersized though)

[hollow canyon]

Utah isn't a Utahraptor

at all, this is just a vastly different animal

[sinful cove]

Utah isnt very undersized stat-wise but appearance-wise it definitely is

[hollow canyon]

idk how you can even compare it when it has the anatomy of a completely different and fictional animal

Stego is alright, it's just that it's kind of outdated

[sinful cove]

Utahraptor and stego both lack a lot of visual bulk

[sleek light]

Depends. Stegos upsize was very recent yet 6 tons is still accurate, same goes for deino. Carnos size range is 1.8-2.1 tons so it’s fine. Teno was upsized from 900kg, ptera was also upsized weight wise a bit, etc. Utah isn’t really a Utah plus it’s very funky weight wise.

[rancid bluff]

I was talking more about their visual size

[hollow canyon]

Stego's visual size is alright

it's just not up to date

but when it was being released on Evrima that's how big the largest Stego was

[rancid bluff]

carno in update 2

[dusky surge]

wasn't carno ridiculously large for a while?

[hollow canyon]

It was initially the size of an Allosaurus

it got eventually made smaller to fit its irl size

[ocean wagon]

Update 2 carno was literally on steroids

[rancid bluff]

eh it wasn't really OP, it was a little buggy and for its size it wasn't strong, it had the stats of an accurate sized carno but was b i g

[dusky surge]

nah, he's just referring to the size i think lmao

[rancid bluff]

yeah definitely

update 3.5 (or update 3 I don't remember) carno though was terrifying

[dusky surge]

yea that was the dark age for anyone that wasn't carno

[hollow canyon]

much weaker than update 2

[hollow canyon]

??? update 3 and 3.5 Carno didn't come even close to update 2? What are you even talking about?

it was getting clapped by Tenonto, Deino and did decently-ish vs Utah

[dusky surge]

no but they were fucking amazing in comparison to most animals at the time. Carnos were fucking everywhere in U3

[hollow canyon]

That's... completely not true

[rancid bluff]

I remember barreling through utah packs solo and killing nearly the entire pack before dying on update 3-3.5

[hollow canyon]

Update 3 Carno was meh compared to update 2, much worse agility, pathetic stamina in comparison to update 2

[rancid bluff]

you clearly didn't fight against one or as one

[hollow canyon]

You could do that on most updates, entirely down to Utahs

[dusky surge]

idk what game you played but U3 had carnos fucking everywhere

[hollow canyon]

I've wiped packs of 10 on update 2

then almost died to 2 Utahs when I ran into competent players

[hollow canyon]

so did update 2 and 3.5

just about every update had a lot of Carnos

doesn't change they were pathetic in update 3 vs update 2

[rancid bluff]

in update 3 the only way utahs could have a chance of killing a carno was if it didn't buck

[hollow canyon]

update 2 Carno was the be all end all animal

[dusky surge]

update 2 was different because utahs were fucked lmao

[hollow canyon]

??? What?

Update 2 Utah was disgustingly op too

it got a bunch of nerfs for a reason after that

[dusky surge]

exactly. They were fucked

[hollow canyon]

Update 2 Utahs took down Stego in ~30-40 seconds

[dusky surge]

Absolutely broken lmao

[hollow canyon]

Carno was also much stronger at the time

both these animals got nerfs upon nerfs after that

doesn't change the fact that Carno was really only overpowered in update 2

Mainly its stamina pool was just disgusting

It had a couple of minutes of run-time at a speed of 61.7km/h

350N biteforce

charge that barely used stamina(admittedly was a bit weaker at the time)

[rancid bluff]

the only overpowered thing about carno was stamina ish and the fact there was a bug where it could turn on a dime if it rammed to the left

[hollow canyon]

Update 3 Carno was ok, it was a decently balanced animal, I think its biteforce was too high but it was justified by the bloated HP pools of literally everything

Yea, that bug was pretty disgusting

[rancid bluff]

I feel like update 4 carno though is kinda just there

well, a lot are there

it's stats are good, only problem with it is its pitiful stamina

the stamina carno has in update 4 doesn't even feel like it lasts a minute

[dusky surge]

i think its around as short as it was before in Update 3. I really haven't felt it be much shorter

[alpine plover]

Tbh I think Carno's stam rn is fine

The charge just...isn't great

[hollow canyon]

that's the least of its problems

The stamina pool is alright, the stam pools of everything went down

the issue is - it wouldn't be able to turn its way out of a wet paper bag

...which would be fine if that was the case in terms of its running turn rate

but it can't turn while walking and standing either

its damage is obviously also subpar

overall a really underwhelming creature

[rancid bluff]

I don't really have a problem with the bad turn radius, that's one of the things that's actually accurate about the carno's gameplay

[wise sparrow]

Carno gets fucked over by its food drain imo

[hollow canyon]

That isn't true at all

[rancid bluff]

yeah the food drain is another issue

[hollow canyon]

Abelisaurids, including Carnotaurus could turn decently well, not quite as well as Tyrannosaurids but quite well compared to most other theropods

they struggled with turning at high speeds

[wise sparrow]

Carno needs

1. better standing/walking turn
2. less food drain

[hollow canyon]

^

I'd also say that its acceleration should be better

the animal should just go full into what it was irl

a missile that aims itself at things and then moves at them fast

[wise sparrow]

Other than those 2 things carno is in the most balanced state I've ever seen a large carnivore in

[hollow canyon]

it would be a nice combination with its special ability and it would just make sense

[rancid bluff]

real carnotaurus had a thick and muscular tail to help it with balance while running after prey, so they'd basically have to run at their prey in a straight line to get a guaranteed catch
but I've never actually noticed the slow turn while standing or walking

[hollow canyon]

All the turn rates of Carno were nerfed for some reason in update 4

[wise sparrow]

If carno gets leg fractured pachy has a WAY to easy time killing it

[hollow canyon]

the animal just looks as if it was stuck in a tarpit

it visible struggles to turn around

[wise sparrow]

I'm all for pachy being able to kill a bad carno but rn its kinda dumb how poorly carno can defend itself

[hollow canyon]

it looks hideous and unnatural

[rancid bluff]

remember the update 3.5 carno alt bite speed that turned super fast

[wise sparrow]

Carno should work like this.

It sees prey and gets into an ambush position. Then it charges out in a straight line and tries to ram its prey. if that fails and a chase ensues the carno should run in a straight line and attempt to cut its prey off. if it fails to cut it off the first time, it stops running and makes an adjustment and then tried again. this would go on until he carno killed the prey or the carno was out of stamina

[dusky surge]

i didnt like the quick turn radius carno simply because that fucker was essentially cerato mixed with carno and it was awful. Can't beat it running and can't beat it standing stll

[wise sparrow]

yea i still think its standing and walking turn should be bad. but not so bad it cant chase anything at all

like it should still get fucked in a brawl

@alpine plover wait how would kentro get the mangos off trees?

[hollow canyon]

yea, that was the only time when that ability was actually of any use

[dusky surge]

Magy doesn't seem like it'd want potatoes. It was specifically mentioned it'd use it's longer stature to reach higher foods

[alpine plover]

Tbf we don’t have a lot of “high” food

[dusky surge]

mangoes are pretty high

also i dont see magy with a high enough swimspeed to justify eating water-based foods like potatoes

[alpine plover]

I mean it’s not going straight into the water. Just near rivers

Idk it’s all speculation

[dusky surge]

teno has potatoes and mountain ash because he vibes around swamps and has good swimspeed

[alpine plover]

I just went off of “what does it look like it would eat”

I’m also still debating if omnivores should just have a mixed diet or two completely different ones they should follow or what

[tribal thistle]

I wonder if egg eating omnivores would be physically able to eat carcasses, even if it is a bad food are they able to?

[sinful cove]

cant see weak jawed omnis like galli, ovi and beipi picking apart carcasses without it looking stupid

[fresh laurel]

Humans doe

And galli just eating a dead rex sounds and looks wrong lmao

[tribal thistle]

true true

[languid tundra]

i mean lets all just take a gander at all real life "herbivorous" animals and birds that be out here eating corpses, its all about dem nutrients man, even deer eat bodies LOL

[sinful cove]

yeah though for game balance it would be beat to keep plants to herbis and meat to carnis/omnis

maybe it would be fine to let herbivores chew on stripped bones

and medicinal plants that both factions can take advantage of

[languid tundra]

I was just chuckin that toward the omnis side not saying actual game herbis do it

[sinful cove]

imagine a stego eating a utah it was bodyguarding lol

as far as the omnis go though, it is the structure of their mouth that would determine if they can eat form carcasses too large to swallow whole

looking at a galli, i think it would look downright silly for it to strip meat and sinew with that flimsy little beak of his

[languid tundra]

I mean, its not like they are out here rippin flesh, some animals just like.... gum the bones?

[sinful cove]

yeah things like deer and giraffe just gnaw on the bones, but they have feeth and chewing jaws

a gallimimus beak is like...

[languid tundra]

anyway, beak bois, they got beaks, sure they wouldnt be eating a body in a rush but id say they could probably get some fatty bits like innards

[sinful cove]

something like a ceratopsian i could easily see making a supplemential snack of some bones, but animals like gallimimus would be best off just eating things he does not need to chew

[languid tundra]

omnis always gonna be grey since well never really know what they would have done

well, chickens dont chew... they omnivore

[sinful cove]

oviraptor too, i cant see this guy munching on a bone like a candy bar

[languid tundra]

i said gum not munch, think cigar not french fry

kekeke

anyway, im not here to stand on any hills, i just think its a funny idea

[sinful cove]

if we got an omnivorous ceratopsian, even an omnivorous iguanadont or hadrosaur would have an easier time taking advantage of extra nutrients from sucking on bones

it is a funny idea tbh

would be funny if galli or something could like pick up a detached bone and just carry it around like a prize

[languid tundra]

dryo with bone cigars

[sinful cove]

maybe galli can wield bones with those arms of his

[languid tundra]

bruhhh

galli has bigger fish to fry, holding the handlebars for that bicycle kick

[sinful cove]

bone holding hands

maybe he can kidnap hatchlings with them and throw them in the river

[languid tundra]

be like the egg snatchers from land before time

[sinful cove]

god i hope galli uses its hands to steal eggs and babies

https://tenor.com/view/land-before-time-eggs-gif-11427284

[languid tundra]

not to eat the babies, just to.... relocate

'relocate'

[sinful cove]

i want to kidnap a hatchling and throw it off a cliff in front of the parents

[languid tundra]

[tribal thistle]

Oh god yes, steal em, and drop the just before the cliff and kick them into oblivion, I hope the kick has knock back and or minor fractures for smols, not raptor size, like hatchies and juvies

[sinful cove]

parents get up for 30 seconds, galli just runs up to the nest, kicks the hatchlings 10 yards, runs away while the slow ass parents are helpless to stop it

[true sapphire]

i think about that when a Deino snaches a small Stego right next to an adult. it's like "Damn, Momma was right there and now all she can do is watch. thats dark. lol"

[sinful cove]

lmao ive seen that, grabbing a baby and the adults just run to the shore to try swinging when the deino is on the other side already

also ran in to some deinos carebearing a baby stego, i baited the baby as a teno and tail slammed it and the deinos tried to chase me

i hope galli is the ultimate baby killing machine

[wise sparrow]

@grim pulsar that would cripple pachy's ability to defend itself and turn its ram into something that could only be used on offense. Just because it has a weapon on its head, doesn't mean it needs to function almost exactly like carno

All you'd need to do to counter it would be "move to the side 2 inches"

[dusky surge]

I only just read, and yea, why does this shift pachy into such an offensive-oriented animal

[wise sparrow]

Literally just carno but with the forbidden head swing

[sinful cove]

Sounds like he wants pachy to specialize in ambush hunting and then die if anything attacks it first lmao

Its like giving it the hypsi problem where hypsi's special ability is shit for defense and only good for trolling

[dusky surge]

aka he wants pachy to do the thing its supposed to do badly and the thing it's currently hated for as it's only viable form of combat

[sinful cove]

Basically

Dont think he even plays pachy or herbivores at all yet he is making a drastic gameplay change feedback on it

[wise sparrow]

Hes also asked for some crazy buffs to carno. He literally wants then to be long running endurance hunters that can kick off a utah by pressing e once

I'm pretty sure hes said that utah should be a strictly ambush predator and carno should be running long distances (?)

[craggy apex]

Tbh rn everything beside stego and teno are ambush predators

Well they can't kill anything tho

Beside babies I guess

[wise sparrow]

Yea but wants utah to have worse running stam and carno to have utah levels of stamina

[dusky surge]

Incredible

[wise sparrow]

how the fuck?

As a ptera!?

[craggy apex]

Yeah no Utah should really be the type of animal to fight in the open and have high stamina to drag out fights for bleed, carno is a 1 shot fight making it very difficult especially alone

[wise sparrow]

Bro he had to have been playing at the bottom of the fucking ocean or something lmao

[dusky surge]

i remember when pachy came out picking utah and going on a pachy killing spree so great i had 300% of the pachy nutrient and literally nothing else

[wise sparrow]

Release pachy turning was agony

[dusky surge]

that was MT pachy

I'm talking about the buffed one

[wise sparrow]

Ah

[dusky surge]

The one released on the official U4

[wise sparrow]

Yea. It's easy to bully people who pick the new dino cause no one has practiced on it yet

But if pachy was losing to a single Utah... that's just a skill issue

[weary idol]

So, I have a hot take. Everyone agrees that diets definitely need a rework and Carno vs Pachy is not a favorable fight for the Carno. As such, Pachy should be removed from the diet roster with it being replaced by a stand-in for something faster. aka Carnos are fast. They should hunt fast things that pose little risk to them. Diet options should remain as they are with the exception of Pachy but something like a Teno should be a bit more of a stretch to expect Carno to hunt.

As one would expect, this is something for down the road and not a more immediate change.

[half girder]

nerf desync

[fresh laurel]

Think its just tail hurtbox

[fresh laurel]

He wanted carno to go back to being able to 1v8 utahs like nothing...

[wise sparrow]

Ballerina carno spinning around face tanking literally everything

[fresh laurel]

Pretty much what he wanted

[wise sparrow]

While also being faster than light

[fresh laurel]

Endurance carno lmao

That would run down anything

Like gg dryo

[half girder]

true

[real oyster]

Does anyone know if utah will be getting anything next update? In terms of balance

[fresh laurel]

think pinning might let you fight back

not sure tho

if you mean stat changes then at best maybe something to do with stam or something

[hollow canyon]

In general - Pachy should absolutely be on Carno's diet. It's the exact optimal size prey item for Carnotaurus, that's for starters.

Secondly... you seem to be having a completely wrong idea of what Carnotaurus is as an animal. This theropod is not "lithe" at all. Most abelisaurids aren't. I'm not entirely sure about a direct comparison between Carno and Majunga but I would lean towards Carno being the heavier built animal out of the two, having a deeper chest and generally being more robust, while also being much larger(Majunga indeed does have a relatively broader - albeit not quite as deep - skull though).

This is a picture of the most up to date skeletal of Carnotaurus sastrei. This animal isn't a T.rex in terms of robustness for sure but that is still pretty hefty for a theropod.

[spare badger]

Abelisaurids are typically more robust no?

[hollow canyon]

They are one of the more robustly-built families of theropods, yea

[spare badger]

Makes sense

[hollow canyon]

Carno at the same length as Allo would be heavier than it

[weary idol]

None of the papers published online suggest that Carno hunted large game. Only Bakker pushed the idea that they hunted sauropods, of all things.

[spare badger]

It makes sense that anything smaller than it can be knocked over by it

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's true but... we know next to nothing about what Carno hunted irl

We know very little about what it coexisted with

[spare badger]

We only have 1 carno fossil

[hollow canyon]

so really it's just a complete guesswork

[spare badger]

And know little about it's ecosystem

What did it live with? Was it Salta?

[hollow canyon]

I think we know outright nothing or next to nothing about its ecosystem

[weary idol]

It's almost completely intact. It's not guesswork.

[spare badger]

That's not the point I'm making

[weary idol]

Take this to #paleotalk if you want to continue with someone else.

[spare badger]

We know little about it's ecosystem
Little about what it hunted
The carno we have doesn't have any injuries from hunting

And that doesn't really matter in game does it?
In game it's supposed to hunt small sized animals

[hollow canyon]

Also - I don't see why the fact that Carno is currently pretty garbage at hunting Pachy should mean that it shouldn't have it on its diet

[spare badger]

Based on its diet and charge's function

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is kind of overtuned and seemingly it's getting some minor nerfs

I'd argue that 1v1 Carno wins atm most of the time if Pachy wants to fight it

[spare badger]

Pachy turns too fast when doing it's rear-up attack
That's about it, besides the glitches

Which is what they're fixing

[hollow canyon]

Well... I do think its stun is overtuned atm but we will see how it does past the changes shown in the devblog

[spare badger]

This dev blog was definitely the best so far
Especially since we got best boi bary

Carno is a weird dino to balance around

[hollow canyon]

The devs are doing the right thing about it imo

faster turn rate while moving slower and faster acceleration

[spare badger]

Slow turn while running and fine turn while slow should work well

Anything trying to escape can do so easily with agility
And it's not too shit at fighting with the turn radius being changed

The biggest balance issue with carno is the pseudo mid carnis
Being bary and cera

Cerato is supposed to be a scavenger that looks to be good at fighting
And bary is a jaguar that's good at fighting
Yet carno is kinda big so it throws a wrench into that

Pachy can just leg break and run
Bary and Cera are harder to balance

[weary idol]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1671/039.029.0313
If you want to view the full article, you'll have to pay to get access. I don't think it would be too far-fetched for Carno to knock down smaller prey and then dispatch them as to keep the use for the headbutt mechanic but it's a bit of a stretch for attacking Teno and Pachy. The impact would kill it.

However, you are correct in the changes being made to Pachy probably making it a more ideal candidate for Carno to prey upon. I would also note that I wrote my suggestion before the dev-blog and plenty of people seemed pretty cool with the idea.

The idea of hunting smaller prey also forces Carno into a tighter niche and allows some relief for herbivores as more carnivores are added. Not only that, but spreading the food sources out away from the 'goat hill' would make the population density of Carno players more sparse. This is a far more enjoyable scenario than meeting another Carno with much higher frequency with the outcome being "If he bites me first I die."

Pachies have their food sources close to the hill the goats spawn on, and not only is this a major inconvenience for people playing Pachy but it further enflames the issue of Carnos being in one location. Hopefully with the rework of where the herbivore foods will be, that scenario will also be fixed.

Now, all that would need attention is increasing goat spawn frequency and spreading out those spawns. Filling their diet categories with greater ease will allow some relief from being pigeon-holed into looking for Utahs or goats all the time.

I feel there should be more alternatives aimed at Carno's IRL and in-game biology of running down fast prey. Most dinosaurs have a unique feature attributed to them and Carno's speed clearly causes it to stand out. That defining feature gives it a very clear niche in comparison to the rest of the dinosaurs that are currently playable.

We also know quite a bit about its paleobiology- and Dondi and his team have done an excellent job at trying to model Carno's gameplay into it. I just wish we had a section of beach that the plains was able to transition into.

However:
The patch might make everything I've said null and void with the changes making Carno making them much more enjoyable to play and hopefully spreading them the hell out along with giving them better opportunities to achieve perfect diets.

I also want to say: I hope to GOD the absurdly long list of playables shrinks. Trying to balance that many dinosaurs unless similar animals are basically reskins of one another with different animations is going to be insane.

[real oyster]

wait what are you referring to when you say this?

[real oyster]

I just feel like utahs are going to be so garbage to play with most of the forests being removed and carnos being buffed in areas where they will be superior in going up against even a pack of utahs. Teno is another story but equally important. Their tail slam still hits you even if youre at their hips. A splash damage tail hit! Gotta love that. Now theyre going to make tenos harder to hunt as utah when theyre back kick is probably going to be equivalent to getting rammed by a pachy. I dont get it, the two dinos that are on a utah diet is a whole dark souls boss to kill and it sucks because it seems like every time utahs are doing great and doing what their supposed to do which is pack hunting, the discord goes wild and calls for nerfs against utahs. One pounce(if it connects) you have less stam and you get run down and 2 tapped. Or 1 if you get locked in a CC or stun that last ages. Even a pounce will stun you! lol what? Ever see a predator like a cheetah or lion go for a jump and miss and then proceed to do some B movie "hero-esque" movie landing before being able to move again. Yeah...me niether. Now it will be worse with the carno speed buffs and more open fields. Again for all the people that are dumb and ask, "wHy aRe yOu hUntIng CaRnOs As A uTaH?" . Play utah get to 50% and look at the diets. It just seems like utahs have been getting the bad end of the stick for so long for dumb reasons. Its really sad that pachy is a better ambush predator than a utah at the moment lol. Hopefully that changes but when i see deino players asking for a buff to be able to pull big stegos in the water i can see theres bigger priorities! (sarcasm) LMAO

[dusky surge]

i mean

its not like any of the current animals are really ideal utah prey items lmao

[sinful cove]

so many of the game's balance problems boil down to "shitty ecosystem"

it feels like not much thought was put in to what animals were being added and why

[dusky surge]

Stego is one of the best-suited apexes to utah fights, deino is basically unkillable unless it's a juvi and legit stupid, carno outright preys on utah, teno invalidates utah's mobility/flanks and can attack from range, pachy has stuns and fractures which fuck utahs up bigtime, so on. It's really not got a roster in favour of utah

[calm ibex]

while i think the future map will favor carno compared to current, utahs can just jump over rivers effortlessly, getting rid of carnos as they see fit

[dusky surge]

True, very good point

Carno + water = bad times

[sinful cove]

utah also may still be getting that dumb momentum climb which would help it against carno

[dusky surge]

One of the poorest swimmers in the game not being able to rely on shallows to pass those pesky rivers could prove this update favours carno somewhat in the statistic department, but while deinos jump at the opportunity of new water sources, carnos do not

Water is quite literally a carno weakness

Second slowest swim + highest stam drain for swimming = quite bad

And that river running through plains looks quite large compared to most rivers we've seen

Plus, it majorly limits where carnos will be. If a megapack of carnos decides to live on side A of the river, side B will be more safe from the speedy bastards

[calm ibex]

something i'm a bit concerned regarding next map is that its mostly open space right, and grass bushes render quite poorly at the moment, which means that hiding away in such environment especially as a juvi or sub would be difficult, i dread for herbi especially

[ripe furnace]

Carnotaurus is thought to have hunted similar sized prey

And making it a small tier only killer wouldn’t really do it any justice

[ripe furnace]

But there’s always like 30 of them anyway

[dusky surge]

yea because utah is fun

(also if an ACTUAL utah prey item came in it'd be fucking destroyed because utah has been balanced around animals that destroy it)

honestly i think troodon should be utah food

[ripe furnace]

Other way around

Utah immediately dies to one

[dusky surge]

Nah lmao

Fuck that lmao

[ripe furnace]

Come to think of it if there’s no cap limit on them then maybe that’ll be it

[dusky surge]

Troodon would be dead in one bite from a utah, likely would be slower and its venom isn't enough to prove very fatal to a utah unless in larger doses

[ripe furnace]

I think small carnivores and ceratopsians will be fine for Utah

[dusky surge]

Well yea

[ripe furnace]

It’s being buffed eventually

[tribal thistle]

Just me or should Utah's pounce have less Stam drain, I could be wrong but it think it's a bit much to be seeing it plummet like it was never there in the first place, also I agree I think ceratopsians should generally be good for Utah's to hunt

[dusky surge]

That would probably be the result of bucking

[ripe furnace]

Is that true?

[spare badger]

I think so yes