balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

so make them lmao

[proud anchor]

Honestly.... My HONEST opinion?
The jungle across the river to center's west should be where Herbie food spawns.
What's the point of ambush predators, when all the herbie food is in the middle of open fields?

[wicked quarry]

Well then what would u do if ur food didn't drain and could body carnis that need to eat more frequently than herbis

[spring dagger]

^

[wicked quarry]

Wave this is feedback

[spring dagger]

Eitherway you look at it, the game sucks with the diets system; tinkered too much and it becomes a chore, tinkered too little and it doesnt remedy the pre-existing issues that it should remedy.

[wicked quarry]

Not opinion station

With a little opiniin

[spring dagger]

Theres no balance to it

[dusky surge]

lmao, feedback is 100% opinion station, have you been here before?

[proud anchor]

Issue:
Keeping all the herbie food close together, centralized, in the center incentivieses mix/mega packing.
Toss some of that food into the jungles, make it something you have to actually look for, rather than forcing it all into oasis area?
Also... Fix Oasis lag... It's horrible.

[wicked quarry]

In my opinion: either a carni buff needs to happen or a herb mega pack debuff needs to happen

[spring dagger]

I mean thats such an obvious issue right? you'd figure the devs would use their brains and realise thats an omega bad idea to put everything in one spot

[proud anchor]

[spring dagger]

big brained

[proud anchor]

I know they're stress testing.

It'll pan out eventually.

[barren oracle]

diets just bad rn

[spring dagger]

How long will it take tho?

3 years?

2 Months?

[proud anchor]

As long as it needs to.

[spring dagger]

We can't know

[barren oracle]

ages this is the isle

[spring dagger]

survive it

Well elden ring comes out in two months so you wont see me around here at all prolly

[barren oracle]

we waited a year for teno and utah and a bunch of bugs

[spring dagger]

HOPE BRO

HOPE

[wicked quarry]

They focus on the environment much more than the system itself and dinos

In my opinion

[spring dagger]

HOPE.JPEG

[alpine plover]

You know why you'd rarely ever see megapacks in update 2? It's because the map complimented playing multiple different areas and as a map it was interesting to explore. The Diets can't do anything about the latter but if they spread resources out and don't make them seem almost infinite they can quite easily aid with the megapacking issues

[barren oracle]

Isle just a patience game

[dusky surge]

i think what needs to be done is carnivore stomachs need to be made more realistic, it takes too long to fill, but otherwise, i'm happy with the balance state, pachy may be a bit overtuned but its overall fine, herbis should require some skill to take down

[proud anchor]

The only thing I can think of, is the Oasis food bounty will just push the focus onto performance issues at Oasis.
Oasis is worse performance than north shallows has EVER been.
If they can fix Oasis performance issues, they can fix the game's terrible FPS across the board.

[barren oracle]

Pachy is overkill good rn

[dusky surge]

a teno kill should be able to feed a utah pack well, not barely fill one adult raptor, it's absurd

[spring dagger]

And what? carnivores get no counterplay to the stunlocks and spams? As i said before its too easy to grow them and their is no mechanical complexity to them, you just hit a stun and spam the tail slam with tenonto, and you tap right click as a pachy

[proud anchor]

If they can fix the performance issues in this game, I could care less where all the food is... Lol.

[spring dagger]

They've gone to the opposite extreme

[wicked quarry]

What's the biggest thing that a deino can drag I to the water

[spring dagger]

Stego at 4.5 tonne

[alpine plover]

A stego that weighs 4 tons

[barren oracle]

That wont help

[spring dagger]

wut

[barren oracle]

that would just make deino into a land carnivore

[spring dagger]

I was replying to unga, mb

i keep forgetting about fucking reply functions

[barren oracle]

oh

Im blind

and deaf

[wicked quarry]

Not when shallows make it impossible nearly

[proud anchor]

Yeah, food values are in a BAD spot right now... But this is all balanced with AI in tow, is it not?
They recently removed Dino AI, so I can only assume this is what is causing the major issue with food atm?

[barren oracle]

and probably something bad in the head

[spring dagger]

Eitherway

[dusky surge]

its completely unrealistic how little food you get per corpse

[spring dagger]

The balance has been further skewed into herbivores when before in U3.75 it was relatively fine

Carno was fine as it was, i will not budge on that

[dusky surge]

hard disagree, carno was a disease

[wicked quarry]

Yeah full grown deino barely fills another full grown deino

[spring dagger]

I mean i'd rather have carno 225 Bite force rather than Pachy rn

If carno is a disease then pachy is a cancer.

[proud anchor]

Oh, I don't disagree. But with AI, there is more option, and less 'challenge' so the balance was to nerf values to meet the ease of the kill, no?

[dusky surge]

ehhh

[placid reef]

dino AI meant nothing, idk why its such a bik take between them and ambient AI, its just how each change the experience of the game, one for worse and the other for better

[proud anchor]

I don't disagree it sucks right now, but I'm playing devil's advocate here.

[spring dagger]

Like im sorry

[proud anchor]

The solution @dusky surge ? Make player kills give more food than AI. SOLVED

[dusky surge]

just make it that stomachs are smaller and kills matter more

herbis SHOULD be strong honestly, but the kills reward should reflect the difficulty

[proud anchor]

That would cause food to drain much faster than you can find and kill something tho..

[barren oracle]

except pachy its overkill good

nerf its infinite stunning abilitys

[spring dagger]

You have with pachy:

• I have said this repeatedly: 1 RAM TAPPED can stun a carno, you loop around and hit it again and boom something is broken guaranteed.
• You can coordinate stuns to stunlock shit, i've seen a pachy 1V1 a CARNO today and its absurd, the guy was stunned into oblivion and couldnt retaliate cause head and leg fracture.
• Pachy can face tank utahs and just kill them, not so much with carno.
• Pachy ALT bite stuns and kills utahs, and can stun carnos.
• 1 Charge + ALT SPAM = DEAD UTAH. Very counterplayable.

Compared with Carno with 225 BF

• Fast as shit,
• Charge knock down
• Could trade with tenontos.
• Could hunt stegos and deinos if they were good enough and patient enough.

Sure, it was a nightmare, but still compared to Pachy as it is now, fuck that give me my carno back.

[proud anchor]

At current, as a full grown Utah, I can run from Oasis, to shallows, and back to Oasis, and not see a SINGLE source of food.
My Utah is now below half food.
If my Utah's stomach was smaller, I'd die of hunger by the time I made it back.
The issue is: It's unreasonable how quick your food drains, and how little kills fill your food.

[dusky surge]

lmao having carnos being able to turn tight corners and tango with STEGOS AND DEINOS was far worse than what's happening with pachy, because at least pachy can be run away from

[barren oracle]

Utahs basically have to spawncamp due to the shitty map

the reason i loved evrima so much was update 2

[spring dagger]

You cant run away from a pachy when you have a broken leg.

[barren oracle]

the map was Mwah

[spring dagger]

Update 2 was the best

[placid reef]

carno, when utah was still 500 was pretty fine imo, could just turn way to fast, pachy tho is in every sense 10 times more busted

[spring dagger]

Yeah

[barren oracle]

pachy is infact busted

[spring dagger]

I agree with that tbh

[dusky surge]

i hope update 5 comes with a map overhaul to account for nesting

[barren oracle]

i wouldnt mind being able to move after getting bonked 5 times

[spring dagger]

Pachy is just turbo fucked and i dont understand why people are not ok with carno being turbo fucked but they are with pachy

[placid reef]

like i only wanted its turn to be nerfed, and its slide, and bite ig so it still 3 shot utah since it became 450

[spring dagger]

It needs its tap ram changed

for sure

that is fucking beyond busted, the wind up is non existence and theres no punish for it

[placid reef]

just hit a pounce, bleeds instantly, its not hard

[dusky surge]

because carno was more turbo fucked than pachy is imho

at least pachy is mortal

[spring dagger]

It wasn't though

Carno was mortal...

[barren oracle]

Carno was not

[dusky surge]

if it was dumb, yes

carno was mortal

[proud anchor]

The Pachy is only a threat because of it's knockdown. It only has ever broken my body, and that seems like a trivial debuff.
#balance-feedback message
Do you think Pachy is balanced with it's 99% damage potential, 1v1 on a FG Utah?
It was said to "Hit and run"
Running is the LAST thing I've seen a Pachy ever do.

[placid reef]

neither was mortal

but the dif is a dumb pachy can still win a lot of times, unlike dumb carnos back then

[dusky surge]

if carno knew it was both the fastest and strongest thing on the land, it could just play into that and win whatever it felt like

[spring dagger]

Carnos could die to stegos and tenontos that played with eachother and coordinated shit well with eachother

Same with deinos

[placid reef]

deinos just pick one up and drown it

[spring dagger]

The turn was fucked, but that pales in comparison to pachy in which its entire kit is completely borked and unbalanced

The dmg was always fine for carno at this moment in time since we dont really have a solid mid tier carnivore atm

unlike herbivores which have a OP apex, and a solid mid-tier

[alpine plover]

Well because Pachy can't chase down everything in the game, and the only thing it can that it can damage has a fight ending tailslam
Besides the only thing "fucked" about Pachy is its alt attacks cooldown, which only impacts fights with utahs

[dusky surge]

unless it realised it vastly outsped both of those animals and basically every animal. Pachy, however, is nowhere near the fastest land animal, in fact, it outright has the worst trotspeed of any land creature atm

[spring dagger]

Pachy can chase down shit it breaks the leg of

Like its kit allows it to do that

[placid reef]

also, not really just pachy but stuns and staggers as a mechanic they are bad, at least what we have now

[spring dagger]

I've been chased down as a carno by pachy swarms

[alpine plover]

Don't get your damn leg broke

[spring dagger]

OH GEE

SORRY

Let me just not get stunlocked then

[dusky surge]

Or just run away since pachy is slower

[spring dagger]

I cant. Fucking. Move.

I am stunlocked

[alpine plover]

If you're trying to fight more than one Pachy without a plan as a Carno that's on you

[spring dagger]

I'm not, i fight just the one pachy.

[proud anchor]

Knockdown is cancer.

[spring dagger]

AS I SAID for the 14TH time.

Pachy can tap ram into you once, stun you, then target your legs and break your legs in the time your stun has come off cool down

Thats the problem i have with it mainly

[dusky surge]

i prefer carnivores when playing the Isle, but even with being biased towards carnivore playstyles, i still think carno was FAR more fucked than pachy is lmao

[alpine plover]

You also have an ability that stops them from even touching you as long as you're running at a good speed

[spring dagger]

Yeah sure, if it didn't fucking cancel that said ability.

[proud anchor]

Carno was far more fucked.
However, you admit the Pachy is indeed fucked, yes?

[alpine plover]

Tap rams don't stun, you can still bite and I think move as well

[spring dagger]

They do stun

100% they do because i've been hunting pachys on EU1 with a friend and thats how they've body fractured me every time

[dusky surge]

yes pachy is fucked, but not some god-level threat like carno was

[spring dagger]

either through cancelling my charge, or just looping around after tapping me once and breaking my leg

[alpine plover]

That's honestly still your fault either way if you attack a Pachy without an ambush or without knowing what you're doing

[proud anchor]

For sure, not god-tier threat, but it needs to be reigned in, still.
It starts with it's animations. It's spamability is honestly worse than the Carno.
It's not as deadly, but it's still pretty bad.

[spring dagger]

So its my fault for having my charge cancelled, stunned and then the guy to just braindead tap RMB and then break my leg?

swell logic there.

[alpine plover]

Yes, and don't bring mechanic bugs in to balance

It changes nothing

[proud anchor]

RMB tap should not fracture until the 4th hit. Just saying.

[alpine plover]

If it was working and you were playing well you'd have nothing to complain about

[spring dagger]

It still doesnt change the fact that i was stunned out of my charge and then the guy looped around after TAP ramming me, not FULLY HOLDING IT DOWN. and broke my leg with one combo

That being two tap rams.

You're seriously telling me theres nothing wrong with that and thats perfect for balance?

[alpine plover]

Pachy is strong sure and stuns need to be looked at but no where near to the level of Carno and you can quite literally just not go near it if you aren't comfortable fighting one, even though it's not hard

[spring dagger]

Bro

I hate to break it to you

I need my fucking diet.

[alpine plover]

Tenonto, already dead Pachys, boars

[spring dagger]

I'm perfectly comfortable fighting them too, i've killed alot of them its just the same consistent shit.

its consistently been that

good pachy players dont hold down the RMB they just tap it, and thats fucked for balancing

[proud anchor]

The Carno is fixed.
The Pachy is broken.
There is a difference here.

[spring dagger]

we're pretty much back at mechanic test pachy, remember how cancer that was?

[alpine plover]

Not really actually

[spring dagger]

If you can get off: TWO TAP RAMS, whilst stunned and instantly break the guys leg or body

thats a fucking problem

[hollow canyon]

If Carno is fixed in its current state, I hope we stop fixing animals

[spring dagger]

theres no counter play

You just have to sit there and take it

But i deserved it right? Cause i went to fight them

[alpine plover]

Considering it was much slower turning, it had a shit alt attack, and a Carno could quite literally assride it, the only advantage it had was fractures being a lot better

[dusky surge]

honestly i just think pachy needs its turn radius readjusted to stop letting it do wacky little circles lmao

[proud anchor]

Fixed in terms of being overpowered.
Food values are an entirely different story.

[spring dagger]

It needs its tap ram looked at

for sure

[dusky surge]

also buff body fracture

[hollow canyon]

When exactly was Carno overpowered?

[proud anchor]

Herewego.gif

[alpine plover]

^ or at least tend to the fucking hitboxes

[hollow canyon]

Yea here we go, Carno was fine since update 3 rolled out

[spring dagger]

I agree.

I didn't see the issue with it

[hollow canyon]

It was too strong back in update 2, but rightly got nerfed to a manageable level with clear weaknesses when update 3 came out

[spring dagger]

The turns was ridic but thats about it

[dusky surge]

what were the weaknesses besides hunger fast

[proud anchor]

^

[spring dagger]

Stuns existing and herds existing

Stego existing

[dusky surge]

both of which you could run away from

[hollow canyon]

low stamina pool, bad turn rate while running, if you were any good at Utah you could've easily escaped a Carno, if you were any good at Tenonto you could've won the fight against Carno

[dusky surge]

you could easily disengage all those threats no problem

that's like saying it was weak to cliffs

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto had a roughly 50/50 match up with Carno(if not slightly in favour of Tenonto)

Utah could'v escaped Carno easily

[dusky surge]

all animals suffered from stuns and stego existing, wasn't a carno exclusive weakness

[spring dagger]

Teno could easily 1V1 a carno

[hollow canyon]

Deino clapped Carnos en masse

[proud anchor]

As a Utah that is starving, running isn't really ever an option.
Food drain is far too fast for running to be the only option, I have to respectfully point out @dusky surge

[hollow canyon]

Stego was the only one that could've been brought down a bit too easily by a Carno

but it got buffed later on

[spring dagger]

nah bro

pachy is fine bro

but carno bad

[dusky surge]

never said pachy is fine

[spring dagger]

(I am pulling your chains chill out)

[dusky surge]

just said that carno was worse

lmao

[hollow canyon]

When?

[spring dagger]

I mean i'll respectfully disagree with that tbh

Carno was perfect and the community wanted it nerfed cause they couldn't contend with players that knew how to play it

[hollow canyon]

Carno was arguably worse during the Mechanic test but that was because all the other animals were hot garbage for one reason or another

It wasn't a Carno-problem it was the everything-else problem

[dusky surge]

carno has historically been one of the best animals in the game. Before update 4, it was not only speedy, but shockingly agile with very good damage and a powerful stun attack with high damage output

[proud anchor]

Was
We're talking about now though.
Please, let me know how you would fix the Pachy, which by your words, is 'not fine'.
I'm genuinely curious!

[spring dagger]

A stun attack that WASN'T instantaneous unlike pachy

that also didnt do fracture

unlike pachy

that actually required some runtime, unlike pachy.

[dusky surge]

personally, pachy could do with a turn radius and alt-bite nerf, both being to speed. These are too fast

[hollow canyon]

Carno had 200 biteforce before update 4, is that what you're calling "high damage"?

[dusky surge]

it leaves pachy without openings

[proud anchor]

What about RMB spam?

[hollow canyon]

That's 9 bites to take out a Tenonto

[dusky surge]

much easier when you can quickly make distance, turn around and go in for another

it all falls back to its agility

[hollow canyon]

30+ bites to take out a Stego, 3 bites to take out a Utah or Pachy

[dusky surge]

OH ALSO make alt-attack on pachy consume significantly more stamina, at least double, 3% stam is far too low

[proud anchor]

It plays (outside of it's ground speed) like a light, when it's said to be a medium.

[hollow canyon]

Pachy just needs to lose its crowd control

it shouldn't be knocking down Utahs with its alt attack

and it shouldn't be stunning stuff with its ram

[proud anchor]

The issue at the current state is solo efficiency, where it should be a herd mentality.
Alone it's FAR too strong for the current roster.

[hollow canyon]

there you go - Pachy fixed

[dusky surge]

pachy is a small-tier, but it is also a brawler, and brawlers should do lots of damage, but lose out in mobility. In the case of pachy, its ability to remove mobility from others makes it a threat

[placid reef]

this would be more of how flawed stuns and staggers etc are in evrima/ how badly designed they are

[dusky surge]

thus, it should have less mobility than other smalls to compensate

[proud anchor]

Right, but a pack is a no-go for anything looking to eat it.
It needs to be nerfed that the herd mentality is maintained, and leveraged.
Right now it's survivability solo is way too high.

[hollow canyon]

They work the same way they do in pretty much every other game, idk what you guys want to do with stuns and staggers, but they aren't worse in Evrima than in any other game

[alpine plover]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-meme-deepfried-oh-nah-bruh-gif-23469570

[hollow canyon]

The only reason why they might be too strong is because they are too easy to apply on Pachy and Tenonto

it's as simple as that

the idea that Pachy can just mash its alt attack and knock Utahs down is a joke

that attack shouldn't have in-built CC

[placid reef]

yea, personally i'd add that they last just a bit to long too

[proud anchor]

I say RMB should do way less damage. It feels like how powerful the Carno was for a long time. Massive damage potential due to it's knockdown and stuns. They're too easy to achieve, and need to be investigated.

Pachy: Punches above it's weight.

[dusky surge]

RMB should be focused more on the snap than the base damage

[proud anchor]

Exactly.

[dusky surge]

the goal should be to break the bone then get the fuck out

(which is why body fractures need a buff because they are utterly useless in assisting in a getaway)

[proud anchor]

Exactly, but the damage makes it focus it's kill potential.

[dusky surge]

yep

[proud anchor]

It's punching up. It should flee more often.

[dusky surge]

it CAN have high damage potential, but imo, that damage potential needs to be defensively oriented

[proud anchor]

Exactly.

Now that we're all on the same page...

[dusky surge]

IMHO, the charged ram feels like a somewhat missed opportunity. The standing upright anim could not only make for a good threaten display but you could make it also designed to convey when the pachy is in a defensive mode and will fuck you up if you approach

[proud anchor]

Yeah, it cooling down makes no sense. You should be allowed to stay in that stance indefinitely, but at the cost of sprint-level stam drain.

[dusky surge]

remove sprint from charged ram, let it be held indefinitely, make it do a good hefty amount of damage and fracture damage and give it a little audio cue when used. Hell, you could even add a mechanic to cancel the charge into a quick alt-attack so people know "this pachy isn't fucking around holy shit"

upright pachy = defensive and pissed off pachy that demands respect but cannot persue

like you approach a pachy nest and the two parents see you and stand upright to your presence as a sign of aggression and "get the fuck out of here"

[proud anchor]

Do you think it shouldn't drain stam in that stance? Act as more of a 'mode switch' while held? I dunno, stam debt needs to be a thing, and if it were this would force herd mentality.

Where the front line is in stance, and switch out occasionally for the back line when stam becomes an issue.

[dusky surge]

nah, no stam drain, you're losing out on sprinting for being in that stance and if you cancel, you'd have to reactivate it with an animation

would also make the ability literally less than useless

because carnivores would see you do the stance and just wait for you to tire yourself out

[hollow canyon]

What you're proposing would hardly fix the issues with Pachy

[dusky surge]

again, abysmal trotspeed on pachy

[proud anchor]

True.

[proud anchor]

Lay out the remaining issues.

[hollow canyon]

The fact that it has stuns on its attacks is the issue, even if you decrease the damage and increase the stamina cost that's now why Pachy is oppressive

the issues with Pachy are the fact that you can stop Utah mid-pounce by using your alt attack

and the fact that you can chain stun things larger than yourself by bonking them

which is just absurd

[proud anchor]

It should have stun, but shouldn't do as much damage as it does, and the speed should be slowed.
It does target some of the issues.

[hollow canyon]

it's the exact opposite

the damage is fine

it's the stun that's the issue

[placid reef]

imo the alt should knock a mid air utah, but its just that utahs recoveries always take so fucking long

[hollow canyon]

the fact that you have a hard control on your goddamn alt attack is the main issue with this animal

[placid reef]

and the fact the alt can be spammed

[proud anchor]

Utah recovery needs to be sped up substantially. Period.

[hollow canyon]

I completely disagree, I don't think that an alt attack should knock down a Utah unless the alt attack starts eating some 10% of Pachy's stamina

[placid reef]

like idk why they made the combat faster and more snappy and add animations that take years

[hollow canyon]

Ram? Cool, I can see that taking a Utah out mid pounce but not the alt attack

[placid reef]

oh well i thought that was already stated in this disscussion, that it needs to consume a fuck ton more stam

[hollow canyon]

In general Pachy has way too much CC

[dusky surge]

pachy needs the stun otherwise it's IMMEDIATELY punished for going for a fracture

which makes it doggy doo-doo

[brittle dirge]

exactly

[hollow canyon]

If it doesn't fracture it should be punished

[dusky surge]

trading a carno bite for a pachy ram is hardly worth it

[hollow canyon]

If you fracture it - yes it is

[barren oracle]

It needs it but it needs more I frames from stun afterwords

[hollow canyon]

if you don't fracture it

you deserve to be punished for it

[barren oracle]

Carno shouldnt be stun locked by it

[hollow canyon]

the fact that you get to ram for free

because you can stun an animal 4 times your size

is absurd

[proud anchor]

The issue with knockdown:
It is static, in once place.
It needs a pushback, or ragdoll away from the moment of impact.
Paired with much faster getup animations.

[placid reef]

you can cancel the charge of animal more than 3 times your size while its running

[placid reef]

yep, except for teno bc for it makes total sense to just pin you in the ground

[hollow canyon]

If you fail to fracture that Carno, you should be in a load of trouble, but you should be reliably fracturing it if you can land that hit on its leg

It makes sense on Tenonto because Tenonto is big

[proud anchor]

Teno should plant you like Donkey Kong in Smash

[hollow canyon]

Pachy isn't big

it shouldn't be knocking things its own size down

It's completely ridiculous that an animal 3 times smaller than Tenonto gets to have CC that's arguably comparable to Tenonto

[placid reef]

no i meant like how knocks work, a teno slams it tail on you makes sense you just loose all momentum, but like a pachy knocks you instead of getting flung a bit you just drop in a dead stop

[hollow canyon]

while supposedly being the mascot of the fracture mechanic

[dusky surge]

we've literally seen goats able to ram bulls and win the brawl lmao, which is a shockingly decent comparison in this scenario

[hollow canyon]

when they ram them on the head

not on the side

[barren oracle]

I would say stonger

It can stun lock teno cannot

[hollow canyon]

what do you think would happen if that goat tried to do that to a lion, hitting its flank?

If Pachy hits a headshot on a Carno

that's fine

the Carno could get stunned and head fractured

but its side?

Hell no, it wouldn't somehow get magically stunned because of that

[hollow canyon]

And even then I know which video you're talking about and that cow was hardly moving at its full speed, it barely started accelerating when the contact took place, if the cow was moving at its full speed the goat would likely get ran over

Would the cow get a concussion? Sure, but that goat would be sent flying if it hit a cow moving at full speed

[brittle dirge]

the issue isn't that carno is getting stunned. the issue is that the pachy can stack these stuns and when you combine that with the damage and spamability of the alt bite is what makes the attack broken. if you remove the ability to stack stuns after a set amount, tone down the damage, and add diminishing returns to it (like with utah's jump) while also making fractures more consistent with where you're actually hitting then you're golden when it comes to pachy's balance (also body fractures should be more substantial but that's a different topic entirely)

[placid reef]

imo the issue isnt that pachy can stun carno, its the context of it, or more exact how this game lacks any form of momentum, like stunning astationary carno is one but stunnung a charging carno is another, and so on

[brittle dirge]

I think pachy being able to stun a carno, moving or not, is fine cause if you get hit by something that's basically stationary as the fastest creature in the game you should absolutely be punished for it whether that be via stun or fracture but that's just me

[placid reef]

how is stuning a 1.8t animal running at its max speed (also the highest in game) by a stationary 500kg small ram fine

[crystal drum]

Actually this is the chase IRL aswell

Idk if you have seen that video of that ram that stops a charging cow dead in its tracks

If you get a substantial blow to the head without being made for it (I know the ram has some cushions for its brain and can direct bloodflow in its head aswel) your going down

so i would imagine that a pachy has some of the same biology

[placid reef]

theres also the dif that a carno is substantually faster than a cow

[placid reef]

https://youtu.be/H-bMT8BYNO8 this one?

if yes that cow dint even reach any substantual speed

[brittle dirge]

balance

regardless if it's "realistic" or not if you tone down pachy's damage on it's alt bite specifically on top of everything else I suggested in terms of nerfs then you have to at least give it something which would give the animal a chance to run away from the fight

[placid reef]

as i said, imo stoping a stationary carno is fine but a full sprint one isnt

[crystal drum]

I still dont think it shuld be a viable option for a carno to facetank a pachy

[brittle dirge]

otherwise you risk making it unviable

[placid reef]

pachy can easily dodge a carno, with how shit carnos turn is rn

[crystal drum]

But yeah i would take a knockback on the pachy aswell

but the carno shuld lose that trade

if carno charges and pachy rams

[hollow canyon]

A/ the cow hasn't reached its full speed yet, B/ it was a hit on the head. I'm perfectly fine with Carno getting stunned if it gets hit by the ram landing on its head. I take an issue with it getting stunned when it gets hit on its flank.

[brittle dirge]

without anything of a deterrent (stun/fracture) a carno would have zero reason to exit the fight for any reason other than boredom

[crystal drum]

Yeah i think we all agree on that

[hollow canyon]

If that cow was moving at a speed of 50km/h+ that goat would've gotten sent flying

[crystal drum]

If you can defend yourself with tailhits or something similar

I think it would make it allot more interesting to play the matchup

[hollow canyon]

You can technically just make it go out of stamina considering how poor its stamina pool is, not that I think that should be Pachy's go to method of surviving a Carno - it should just fracture its leg and leave it limping around.

[crystal drum]

Yeah for sure you can see it allready gets knocked way back

[placid reef]

exactly, speed is much more impactfull, momentum really doesnt mess around

[hollow canyon]

Which - admittedly fractures atm seem really random and unreliable

[crystal drum]

^

[hollow canyon]

I think that's the aspect of Pachy that has to get fixed

Fractures need to get better and more reliable and the stuns have to go

[placid reef]

ngl the unreliable imo is more from how shit body fractures are

[hollow canyon]

It might be

body fractures need a buff in terms of their severity

[placid reef]

which bc of the hitboxes rn is 90% of what you get

[hollow canyon]

Then again the hitboxes in the game are just really... questionable

[placid reef]

like imo we just need to have better hitboxes to make sure body fractures need to be buffed

[crystal drum]

Honestly

I think the netcode might be the issue there

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps? I'm honestly not sure

[placid reef]

wel they do lack a back end dev from what i heard, amarok is doing that atm, the AI guy... yea...

[crystal drum]

Uff

[placid reef]

so it makes sense why AI and servers are... troubled, rn

[crystal drum]

I at least think its hard to know if the hitboxes are actually bad or if the ping compansation is to blame

[placid reef]

i think they did say smth about the hitboxes not beeng that good rn but not sure

[crystal drum]

Do you have a sauce for that?

[placid reef]

as i said, not sure, i just think this was mentioned once but i dont remember exactly

[crystal drum]

That`s alright. I mostly wanted to see what they were saying about the hitboxes themselves

[proud anchor]

Okay, I was just 1 meter ram knockdowned from a bush by a pachy.
Please defend that horrible balance harder, Pachy mains.

[brittle dirge]

that just sounds like a skill issue

[placid reef]

just hit 1 pounce to bleed insta, just bad

[frail flicker]

Just land a charge

Pachy mains when they say it's not that bad ->🤡

[proud anchor]

1. Pachy lacks skill.
2. Pounce is actually less reliable than headbutt.
3. Charge is a meme.
   👏 👏

[placid reef]

it weak to bleed, just bad

fr these people just went against the worst pachys lmao

[proud anchor]

I'm all for getting better with time on the new releases, but this is a joke.
It's like when a new item drops in an MMO, and everyone rushes for it because it's broken.

If this is the direction the game is headed, Utah and Carno are going to find themselves on the shelf sooner than later.

[placid reef]

D2 be like...

[proud anchor]

The Isle logic:
Canrivores, the creatures that killed things for food, can't kill things.
Herbivores, which relied on fleeing rather than attacking are the alpha predators.

[placid reef]

herbis do fight tho

half the herbis rn should fight, and i think half of the full roster is gonna fight or more

[proud anchor]

Fight, yes. Faceroll... Hmmmmmmmmm.....

[placid reef]

its the context that matters, one does it for food the other bc of iminenet danger

[proud anchor]

They need to get a backend tech hired... I watched a solo FG Carno dick down 6 FG Utahs.
They were all lagging and missing their pounces because Oasis is cancer.
I suggested don't pounce in lag, and someone decided "You talkin smack about my boys all dying to a single Carno, I'm gonna pounce you, how about that?"
The performance is top-of-the-list the biggest problem with Evrima right now.

[barren oracle]

Dryo runs

[proud anchor]

And now you see why no one plays Dryo...

[placid reef]

dryo and hypsi are unfinished... def its not this why that is

[proud anchor]

Yeah yeah... Because burrowing and climbing trees is going to make them benefit the ecosystem. They'll fill 1/8th of your food, and take 1/2 your food to chase down.

[placid reef]

thats not their fault

plus, they will have what to fear when herra comes (for hypsi) and all the other burrowers/invaders

[ocean wagon]

Wdym? Dryo is super fun to play. Juking shit and making carnos drift off of cliffs is prime dryo gameplay

[sinful cove]

Yes but you can do that and more with utah

[dusky surge]

they'll benefit the ecosystems they live in. If dryo becomes a nocturnal burrower, we'll likely see troodons going after it, and hypsi would be preyed upon by herra

also you say that as if ptera doesn't exist

[dusky surge]

i hope my man wasn't hoping that herbivores would be treated the same as JP in the Isle lmao

[sinful cove]

Another jp fanboy that wants all herbivores to be flight animals and thinks a raptor 1v1ing a large sauropod is cool because thats how jp treats is herbis

And “big boys fleeing lil tanks” what is this lol

What big boys

Pachy aint a tank id thats the shit hes talkin about

[proud anchor]

"I hope that <insert words into mouth> wasn't the intent!"
Ofc I don't, or else I would have said so.
It'll be better once AI is fixed, which amarok has come forward and said AI is spawning perfectly fine, which no one agrees with.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It'll get fixed the day those who are on the task decide to experience the lack of spawns in the live servers, and find the underlying problem.
Then there will actually be Dryo in The Isle.

[hollow canyon]

not sure if that was supposed to be an argument for Dryo or against Ptera

[dusky surge]

i'm saying some animals will impact the ecosystem less than others

for example

ptera

[hollow canyon]

I mean yea, Pteranodon doesn't impact the ecosystem much... if at all

but then again I don't think that making Dryo a nocturnal burrower would make it have much of an impact either.

I guess it might work when Troodon is in the game?

But we will have to see

My bet is that most Troodon player will try going after the big game, that's probably why they'd pick this animal in the first place, I doubt they will be trying to hunt Dryos

[dusky surge]

i agree, however, you need groups to do that

a dryo would be more manageable for a troodon on its lonesome looking for more

and making dryo a nocturnal burrower would make more people play it, and honestly, having it be a discount galli will never NOT be lame, especially since the actual planned galli for EVRIMA has so many more unique mechanics going for it, including omnivorous diets, higher speeds and even dust clouds to cover tracks iirc

[spring dagger]

Nocturnal herbivores would defo be a cool addition for sure

[dusky surge]

agreed

let there be an actual ecosystem at night as well as day

don't make the only nocturnals venomous carnivores, because frankly, that's kind of lame

[wise sparrow]

I- Did this guy seriously say that the herbis need to be defenseless prey animals that run from everything?

[dusky surge]

yes

[wise sparrow]

he really wants harbis to be the fodder they are in jp?

holy shit...

[sinful cove]

"haha these sharp tooths are so cool chasing down triceratops that just runs away and doesnt fight back haha badass, this movie monster fetishism looks great for game balance"

probably broadcasts after he kills a fresh spawn juvie

[wise sparrow]

Have you seen how dino "documentarys" treat sauropods when the focus is a large carni

ive seen them just make the diplo or whatever just put its neck down to be grabed

why do herbis get it so bad in media ):

[sinful cove]

lol they pick actual dangerous herbivores and treat them like overgrown rabbits

[wise sparrow]

Like fuck it, Most herbivores were more badass and interesting than most carnis

[sinful cove]

theyve got big ass horns and spikes and clubs and most theropods are relatively the same with their weapons

like wtf are the horns on animals made of styrofoam in these docs

sauropods can snap your bones by whipping you with a big ass tail but they just stand there and let a mapusaurus chew on their ass cheek in a doc

[wise sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/tyrannosaurus-rex-running-biting-sauropod-dinosaur-gif-17288632

[sinful cove]

lmao this

[wise sparrow]

obtain realism

[sinful cove]

https://tenor.com/view/sauropod-allosaurus-running-jumping-animal-gif-17282623

[wise sparrow]

did that allo just pounce?

[sinful cove]

this one is funny too though at least the sauropod is just like ":/"

lmao yeah allo straight up does the utah pounce

[frosty heron]

Allo pounce wtf I missed that one

[spare badger]

isn't that a juvie

the diplo

[frosty heron]

Its a big juvie yeah

[spare badger]

diplos are undersized often which is weird

[sinful cove]

probably cus it make it easier for docs to show them getting attacked

[wise sparrow]

Ark diplo

[spare badger]

i hate it

its so sad

[sinful cove]

wait isnt everything in ark like 50x accurate size lmao

is diplo an exception?

[spare badger]

everything except diplo

and dilo

[sinful cove]

jees

[spare badger]

dilo is JP dilo

[wise sparrow]

Diplo doesn't do damage

[spare badger]

diplo is small

[wise sparrow]

No joke

[spare badger]

and does no damage

only knockback

they have stupid amounts of health tho their health is very high

[sinful cove]

so... they added an animal with a literal giant whip on its ass that can crack a dino's skull and made it weak? dammit ark

[frosty heron]

Diplo kills with fall damage on Ark, which is sad

[wise sparrow]

B- but it's an herbivore

[spare badger]

it can run really fast though

gallop diplo

[frosty heron]

Diplo on Ark is so useless humans kill them with hatches for Meat literally

[sinful cove]

wtf whyd they even bother making it diplo then lol

[wise sparrow]

Wild diplos dont run

[spare badger]

ever tamed one?

[wise sparrow]

No bever bothered

[sinful cove]

they shoulda just made it magyarosaurus

[spare badger]

they run very fast, have stupid high health and high weight

there are mods that can let it stunlock tho

[frosty heron]

Amargasaurus on Ark is the way to go

[spare badger]

amarga is eh

it gets mobbed really easily

[frosty heron]

At least has utility

[spare badger]

yea

well diplos do

they are the best turret soakers in the game

[wise sparrow]

Mfw ark trike is weaker then an allo

[spare badger]

its so sad

[frosty heron]

I used to soak turret walls with a Diplo ass

[spare badger]

giga is twice the size of rex and rex is twice the size of irl rex

[wise sparrow]

Maybe ark 2 will treat herbis better

[spare badger]

they are all 'different species' but it doesnt make it better

[frosty heron]

Giga is just ridiculous on that game lol

[spare badger]

if i knew how to mod i would make a paleo accurate mod for ark

[wise sparrow]

At least its something stronger than "muh rex"

[sinful cove]

herbivores are wasted in media, a triceratops would make a badass battle mount but i literally wedged a trike in a tree and punched it to death in ark. havent touche dthat shit it ages because my saves always break though

[spare badger]

at least spino is broken if its touching water

[spare badger]

had that save problem but it got fixed

[sinful cove]

oh maybe i should get on again lol

[frosty heron]

At this point theres a lot of stuff that is stronger than a Rex in that game , Rex is just now the best all rounder damage + hp mount

Althought even being oversized I find Ark Rex pretty cool

[spare badger]

giga, spino, all mythical creatures, titanos, and thats about it

[spare badger]

its head is too big and looks kinda goofy

[frosty heron]

Maybe and also its feet are massive but I dont know its just how Ark makes his creatures , just look at Yutyrannus

Its an oversized big chicken with Teeth

[spare badger]

lmao

[frosty heron]

Its funny , I just like it

[spare badger]

im going to go play ark now lmao

[frosty heron]

Enjoy it , I left Ark long ago I just couldnt stand the amount of time the game requires

[spare badger]

thats why i only play singleplayer lmao

[wise sparrow]

What's the worst offender of making herbivores shit?

[sinful cove]

for dinosaurs? probably the jp franchise

even some docs like dinosaur revolution at least give herbivores some moments. but in jw they do shit like make their fanfic dino tank face hits from an anky and then slaughter entire sauropod herds, and make rexes run down gallimimus

and then the games have their own level of bullshittery

[wise sparrow]

I really thought that anky would finally get a moment to shine but nooooo indominus rex go brrrr

[sinful cove]

they could replace basically every herbivore in jp with nigersaurus or homalocephale and the results would be the same on how their interactions pan out

[ocean wagon]

But some people don’t like hunting for their food most of the time though. I think dryo is definitely a nice beginner Dino to play for people who just got the game

[sinful cove]

people want to pick carni because "rawr cool sharp claws teeth grr" even if they suck shit at that playstyle and then get mad when something they want to kill kicks their ass

dryo is a good beginner animal though i can see how many people just find it boring even if they arent already carni biased

[ocean wagon]

Yeah don’t get me wrong, dryo still needs fleshing out. But for the most part it’s an okay playable

[dusky surge]

Better idea:
Don't play ARK

[sinful cove]

it's alright, though there's just not much reason to pick it over something like utah right now except its easier to not starve to death as

[ocean wagon]

Some people just like the “I’ll break your ankles then go have a salad after” play style

[sinful cove]

hopefully it does get nocturnal vision. personally im not a fan of burrowing dryo but the devs seem set on it

[dusky surge]

i like dryo conceptually, but it needs more unique niches, otherwise it will find itself quickly invalidated by galli

[sinful cove]

galli should be speed, dryo should capitalize in sheer agility

[dusky surge]

i'd say dryo should have nocturnal as a niche, i will DIE on this hill

[sinful cove]

yeah it deserves it

i also want taco to lean more on nocturnal too, and have advanced burrowing

[dusky surge]

even in model, it looks like it'd be capable in the night

[ocean wagon]

Herbivorous carno go brrr

[sinful cove]

technically he's omni now but he's still pretty close

[ocean wagon]

Imagine Gali actually out competes carno lel

[sinful cove]

i'd imagine galli is a little bit slower than carno, but with more stam and agility, but faster and less agile than utah

some acceleration time that makes him ambushable, otherwise he hauls ass and leaves you in the dust

[alpine plover]

I like your idea @sinful cove

[placid reef]

well it is unfinished (same for hypsi) and Kissen confirmed its dodge will get reworked

[crystal drum]

So I have been thinking~ Petradons are kind of garbage for the game. There really is no good way of interacting with them, currently i would add deino into the same group, but when nesting becomes a thing it shuld make them at least a bit more interactive.

Like people be upset about stegos, but at least you can do something with them even if its not normally super smart. deino can just sit in water and eat fish all day, and petras just come down to fish

[placid reef]

quetz will fulfill that, and PT iirc is confirmed to have to nest on rocks and dinos that can climb will be a threat to them

[crystal drum]

Still

[dusky surge]

I'd actually put ptera down as an egg stealer, not a baby killer

[placid reef]

plus deino, there are 8 i think other semi aquatics so ye he will have a lot of interactions

[dusky surge]

i def like ptera interacting with nesting tho

[crystal drum]

Well i see peopel compaining about stegos not being healthy for the game

but

i dont see the same with deinos and petra

[placid reef]

stego just came at the wrong place in the wrong time

[crystal drum]

not to the same degree

yeah but its allot more interactable

then either deino and petra

as of right now

[placid reef]

when the whole apex roster is here stego might need a buff as its the weakest but has the most dmg in the game so we will see

[placid reef]

they just lack part of the roster and mechanics

[crystal drum]

Yeah but i think most of the complaints right now is mainly because a third ish of the srver is going to be playing those

Not finding enough players etc

Same with finding food~ For both deino and petra its super easy to find

Fishing might be a bit overtuned

If we say that both fishing and land ai has the same spawnrate

fishing is going to be way easier since they dont run/fight and the area they spawn is much smaller

I hardly see complaints like this though so i have to wonder why it's not brought up

[placid reef]

yet only a quarter of the roster will be able to interact with it, unlike the other one, beeing that semi aquatics are locked to those biomes while every other playable is free to go where ever

[crystal drum]

Well no

i dare say deinos fair far better on land then any of the terestrial dinos does in water

But the issue i think i have is that they dont really have to make themself vounerable

at all

Can litterally just sit ontop of a montain or in water without much of a reason to do anything else

[placid reef]

deinos fair good on land rn just bc they are the strongest carni, i dare to say it will be as peachy when even alberto is here

[crystal drum]

I think they need to have a reason to go on land more often

basking or something similar

Even with spinos/suchos i think they will be to easy to keep alive

[placid reef]

they can, on the river shores

[crystal drum]

Yeah but there isnt any reason for them to

right now

I think forcing them to bask

might be a solid option

[placid reef]

spino has 1.7t more health than it and prob also a stronger bite or equivalent, and sucho is far faster and just heavy enough to not get grabbed

[placid reef]

oh def... just that they can go on land, aka the edge of the rivers and swamps

[crystal drum]

Yeah give them a dbuff of sorts if they stay in the water for to long

Stamina regen debuff at least

bare minimum*

Actually a heat regulation system

would be nice to see

[placid reef]

god no more dbuffs please... they juust need an incentive to do so, punishing players is never the choice, you need to offer a reward, for ex if you bask, you stam drains slower so you have a better chance drowing etc

[placid reef]

temperature and all that is not confrimed nor planned i think, but at least they are looking into it

like its smth they are considering

[crystal drum]

Good

I think they are in a really unhealthy spot right now

Even more so then stegos

[wicked quarry]

imagine growing a rex on the feed values now it wont be rewarding at all. in fact knowing u will have a long lasting meal after taking down something tough like a stego is very rewarding

but it now being able to feed a full grown deino all the way is not rewarding at all

[dusky surge]

what?

[wicked quarry]

going back to food values

and i got a question wave

do u eat, breath, and sleep on this channel

food values should be proportional to what is killed not what feels it should be

[dusky surge]

i just check in when im not doing anything lmao

its pretty easy to see when someone's sent a message

[wicked quarry]

i didnt @ anyone tho

[dusky surge]

so?

[wicked quarry]

was just saying

[barren oracle]

how much food do ya eat a day btw?

I assume not something the same size as you

[dusky surge]

also i still have no idea what the fuck you are talking about with food values

[barren oracle]

I dunno i assume he means you dont get enough from what you eat

[dusky surge]

which is true

imo, herbivores get too much food and carnivores get too little per food item

[crystal drum]

Aside from deinos

Fishing is overtuned af

[wicked quarry]

fish dont help if they only give u like 2% food when they about the size of u stomach as a deino and 3x the size of ur stomach as a carno which give like 40% food

[crystal drum]

Even as an adult deino i am usually compeltly full on food

and fish to spare

[wicked quarry]

i havent played carno yet

[crystal drum]

Fish is more then enough to support a full adult deino

++

[dusky surge]

yea, fish are silly

[crystal drum]

Hopefully sucho and or spinos will eliviate how powerfull it is

[wicked quarry]

how are fish more sustainable than a utah body or dryo body apart from being about 3 times the size of a fish

[crystal drum]

but the spawn area is just way to small and its not like they actually try to runn away

Im not sure what your on about, a utha body will fill you more then a fish

but fish are just super easy to get allot of

Unless you want the stam/healthregen boost

there really is absolutly no point in hunting/pvping

as a deino

[wicked quarry]

but its more fun and thats the point of the game is to use the deino to ambush

i rather lose my full deino to a utah or even pachy or stego than hunger

idk thats my opinion

[crystal drum]

It shuld be reasonable to die from both

as of right now hunger isnt a thing for deinos

unless you have absolutly no idea what your doing

[wicked quarry]

i dont have a problem with hunger i just dont want to sit and only eat fish for 4 hrs

[crystal drum]

you dont have to

thats a personal choise not a game imbalance thing

[wicked quarry]

but food should be increased a little for future dinos

[crystal drum]

Nah

On land it shuld be slightly easier to track and find

but the rate seems allright

Considdering i can live of ai as is right now (Because i bothered to find decent spots)

when they add other dino ai it shuld be super easy to feed an entire server

The main issue with food/ai right now is that it will spawn in thick foliage

back in legacy yo could track sounds fairly easily

but in evirma you kinda need to see the ai, so open fields are the best hunting grounds

[wicked quarry]

yeah ik

i played legacy

can u tell me where these good spot are plz

[crystal drum]

I honestly coudn*t because i don't use map.

I know the place around oasis has allot of ai spawns

and its super open to

[wicked quarry]

i play deino so i cant do that open area thing

[crystal drum]

Deino you can just fish

[wicked quarry]

if they are abundanyt

does ai increase when more ppl are around

like in legacy

[crystal drum]

It does seem that way, but i dont know for sure

[wicked quarry]

cani make the water less murky in settings or something

[spring dagger]

I dont wanna give my 10 cents on deino, i've done it enough but it will always be in a bad spot until semi aquatics are added

They added it too early imo, just baited the hype with it and then boom. same thing with stego

Given that stego is pretty iconic

[thorn dome]

What are the reasons not to implement an auto walk button?

[crystal drum]

I can't answer for the devs but I would assume they want the player to be engaged while playing. On a personal note I wanted auto walk for a while, especially on stuff like trikes in legacy.

[hollow canyon]

I mean... if the devs want the player to be engaged they should make the game engaging. Forcing me to press "w" button constantly is anything but that(I personally have at times built different structures on my keyboard that were supposed to just press "w" and then went afk, it's not something I do that often but it did happen a couple of times which speaks volumes about how engaging the game actually is).

[daring kraken]

Pressing "w" has nothing to do with the topic Engagement. Like the ,,w"-button is in almost every game the button that lets you go forward. What's the problem with that?

[hollow canyon]

The point was - why is there no autowalk in the game?

And the guess of an aswer to that was "the devs want the player to be engaged"

I've heard that explanation before

I honestly absolutely believe in the current state of the game there should be an autowalk button that allows us to press it and have the animal go forward.

Also - there are games that also have autowalk buttons.

[daring kraken]

PoT has it and in my opinion it totaly kills the immersion. That's like saying cars in Forza need auto acceleration because i don't want to press the acceleration button or guns in CoD need auto firing whenever i aim at enemies because i don't want to press the fire button.

[hollow canyon]

I don't think either of those is a good comparison

It's not comparable to autofiring

If anything you could compare it to just tapping a button instead of holding it to walk in CoD

I genuinely don't understand how you can compare autofire while hovering over enemy to having your character walk forward automatically

Like... that doesn't win the game for you

it just saves you time when you have to get from one garbage spawn point to... wherever you have to get

[barren oracle]

Quick question how many hours does everyone in this channel have

[mental roost]

Too much

[slim dragon]

None

[wicked quarry]

not enough

[wicked quarry]

I wish the deino could drag in a full grown stego I mean it's not like it could t if it wanted too thing is pure muscle

[spring dagger]

I wish deino would just not exist.

[alpine plover]

I remember there was some bug LONG time ago when Deino first came out, and the bug was that the Deino weighted 16 tons but that was pretty rare one, and I was able to drag full grown Stegos and carry adult Stego body as a Deino, man that was funny af

[ocean wagon]

Chad deino

[sinful cove]

claims sarchosuchus is bigger and better than deino
deletes comment

[half girder]

bro i was falling asleep while trying to take down a teno that was getting defended by stegos

[dusky surge]

who the fuck even likes sarco that much to warrant asking it to replace deino lmao

also i feel deino will feel more impactful when we have more mid-large tiers

let me remind you it can drown a whole-ass allo pretty easily

it can even drown maias to a watery grave

[sinful cove]

God knows lol i was halfway through reading the comment before they deleted it. A big ass gharial certainly aint gonna ambush terrestrials better than a big ass crocodile though

[rancid bluff]

I know one person who does... one really weird person...

but sarco wouldn't fit at all for a deino replacement, sarco's weaker than deino and probably couldn't do a lot of the things deino could

[sinful cove]

If anything, purussaurus could be a deino skin, but sarco would look ridiculous trying to wrangle large land animals the way deino does

[half girder]

love playing pachy and killing utahs without spamming alt bite

[rancid bluff]

could you imagine seeing a sarco dragging an allo or even sucho

[sinful cove]

it would look like picking up a whole turkey with a pair of tongs

[half girder]

pachy speed nerf? oh boy people are getting angy rn

[dusky surge]

i would like to point out that, for a small tier, pachy is SHOCKINGLY slow

[dapper frost]

pachy needs changes but making it slower than teno is not one of them imo

[dusky surge]

like, the fact that it's barely faster than a mid-tier brawler like teno is pretty bad for a small-tier

making it slower is not the way to go because we may see it becoming outright fodder to larger animals with a speedy focus

i seriously think it just needs to be slower offensively, but when it comes to defensive purposes, like escaping large predators, a speed nerf is not the way to go

lower its turn and alt-bite speeds for a start

[half girder]

pachy isnt all that op as people make it, its just a buggy kindaaa op dino

i had an idea of alt bite setting a utah off balance and slowing it for a duration

cuz people seem to hate the spamming

[dusky surge]

im actually fine with the alt-bite having knockdown, just lower the speed of it and increase the stam use so we don't have pachy spamming the damn thing

[half girder]

diminishing?

[dusky surge]

nah, just slower base speed

[half girder]

yeah speed could be lower

[dusky surge]

you can't even ambush a pachy atm

[dapper frost]

pachy ambushes you

[rancid bluff]

I think the turn is fine so it can dodge carnos, maybe a slight turn nerf, it needs attack speed changes mainly, maybe a lower damage output as well so it instead fractures and runs instead of fracturing and ruthlessly murdering

[dusky surge]

I actually enjoyed MT pachy with the lower turn radius, since it left pachy open to a weakness, that being its exposed flanks

you stand in front of a pachy, you're fucked, so you try to attack it from the sides

[half girder]

i didnt but the turn does seem kinda wicked

atm

wait guys, anyone know if tap and full charge does more dmg?

cuz tap seems to do alot

[dusky surge]

charge does more

[half girder]

well tap needs a slight dmg nerf

that and

[dusky surge]

nerf pachy's turn radius and alt-bite rate, increase the stam penalty for alt-bite, buff body fractures

[half girder]

the alt bite spamming, some bugs and hitboxes

[dusky surge]

tap's damage is increased while sprinting

[half girder]

YES WAVE

now u talkin my language

body is so ass..

[dusky surge]

if we want pachy to be focused on fleeing

make it that body fractures assist in that goal

[half girder]

facts!

people dont seem to know pachys cant smell prints and just run into a jungle

[dusky surge]

body fracture, imo, should fuck your stam rate up and heavily impact stam regeneration. Hell, the winding effect of the body fracture, imo, should immediately take 50% of the receivers stam and heavily reduce stam regeneration and increase consumption. Instant impact that would encourage the foe to retreat

[half girder]

also

pachy has DOG water bleed

blood pool i mean

[dusky surge]

that too

[half girder]

i honestly think it could be slighlty buffed

its so odd that a juvie utah can drain 30% if the pachy runs even for like 5 seconds

[dusky surge]

which is why i personally believe a higher stam consumption on the alt-bite makes sense, since it punishes foolish play with it against utahs, which is what alt-bite is generally used on. If you waste all your stam against a utah, you die

blood pools and HP are directly tied to weight

[half girder]

well its just awful on pachy

but at the same time i think to myself

pachy is a dmg lord plus the stuns

from my pov pachy is nowhere near as scary to fight then when i play utah and fight a pachy

the stun on carno is fine, just extend the window. im not trying to go back to old days of carno getting a free bite after i headbutt

[fresh laurel]

That would perfectly balance pachy

Adds more reason to try and think when to attack as pachy instead of using rmb everywhere until it lands

[fresh laurel]

But if pachy lands a body break on something what stops it from chasing that broken bone dino down to smack it to death

[versed rune]

I still think pachy should at the very least be slower than teno. Not by much, but the speed + turn rate + ability to combo stuns/fractures (why?????) makes the thing play like a carnivore

[fresh laurel]

Thing is

[fresh laurel]

Could pachy fight back?

I mean pachy has to avoid teno just incase

I think it should be slower than utah by a good amount but faster than teno a noticiable bit

[versed rune]

teno being only slightly faster wouldnt really be an issue. teno's two strong attacks are from the back so they're not too effective while chasing

[dusky surge]

pachy is slow af dude, it being slower than teno is not a good idea

for its size, pachy is pathetically slow

[half girder]

it is slow by a good amount lmao

[fresh laurel]

Yet can almost keep up with utah...

Idk how

[half girder]

almost

[versed rune]

^yea thats the thing

[fresh laurel]

But its funny

[half girder]

it is

[dusky surge]

pachy literally moves 5km/hr slower, which is a big difference

[fresh laurel]

Big bone head lets it still almost catch utah

[dusky surge]

and oh my god its trot speed

[fresh laurel]

Doesnt feel like it in action

[dusky surge]

it has the WORST terrestrial trot speed of any animal

[fresh laurel]

True

[dusky surge]

besides the non-terrestrials

[versed rune]

i mean trotting is a convo for another day

[fresh laurel]

I mean

[versed rune]

utah pachy and carno could all stand to have their trots turned up a notch

[fresh laurel]

Im not sure how bad trotting is for pachy

[fresh laurel]

Utah fine kinda

[versed rune]

like tuned up to teno's trot level

well

not really teno's trot

[dusky surge]

teno's trot level is unique to it

[versed rune]

but proportionally speaking

[dusky surge]

it's SUPPOSED to be a fast trot

[half girder]

wtf..

[fresh laurel]

Utah could stand to have another stam regen buff

When sitting

[dusky surge]

utah and carno have actually very similar trot speeds, carno being a teeny bit faster, but both utah and carno have the second and third best trots in the game

[fresh laurel]

Also are different tracking powers planned?

Like

[versed rune]

im in favor of trot buff across the board though because to be honest it's kinda dumb watching animals run everywhere

[fresh laurel]

Utah tracking dinos better than carno

[versed rune]

teno needs the fast trot cuz it requires stam to be at all useful in a battle but even so its nice to have the luxury of not feeling pressure to sprint everywhere all the time

[fresh laurel]

Just bring back old acceleration for dinos

Those were good times

[half girder]

jungle, u dont out position urself in case, i think a map rework will help for that

the agave field north of oasis is nice, the jungle is close for an ez escape

[fresh laurel]

Eh

[versed rune]

i mean

[fresh laurel]

Also

[versed rune]

pachy's not really a big animal

[fresh laurel]

Can we nerf utah tail dmg

Pls

Its not even fun

[versed rune]

things larger than a utah shouldnt exactly be running for their lives from it unless there's like. 5+ of them.

[fresh laurel]

And yet carnos find a way to complain

XD

[versed rune]

the vast majority of evrima carnos opinions dont count

[fresh laurel]

True

[versed rune]

they team with stegos half the time

[fresh laurel]

Most carnos i see pack with deinos or other utahs

Its weird

[half girder]

stegos..

[versed rune]

its legit just the "muh big carnivore" players

once allo comes out theyll all flock to that

[fresh laurel]

Back to this

[versed rune]

then acro, then rex, etc

[half girder]

i see alot of carnos with stegos

[fresh laurel]

Utah tail dmg?

Nerfs?

[versed rune]

it's ass

needs a reduction

or just buff utah's hp

[fresh laurel]

475 utah?

Could that work?

[half girder]

ok hang on

[versed rune]

475/500. 500 if pachy doesnt get nerfed

[half girder]

earlier i collided with a baby carno as pachy and it won..

[fresh laurel]

Devs dont want utah pinning pachy

[dusky surge]

you know utah tail damage is around the same amount of tail damage that the rest of the roster takes

[fresh laurel]

Theres no way

That low hp must be the problem

[half girder]

it is

[versed rune]

its almost like weight=health is the legacy weight system 2.0

[dusky surge]

its the same multiplier around the board iirc from testing it

weight = health isn't that bad imho

[fresh laurel]

I think it is tbh

But eh

[versed rune]

it locks dinosaurs into a corner as far as balancing goes

[fresh laurel]

Feels like makes balance harder

Like want something to have more hp but less weight?

Cant

[versed rune]

because you literally CANNOT buff certain dinosaurs even if they need it, because then it will intrude on another matchup

[fresh laurel]

I just want utah tail dmg to get a nerf tbh

[versed rune]

Just an example. Should a carno take 20+ HEAD shots to kill a stego? no. so what happens if we buff carno's damage? Well then rip utah.

[dusky surge]

i find it makes it that normalises health stat across the board, plus, they've already done unique things like having pachy's head take less damage than the body

[dusky surge]

yes lmao

[fresh laurel]

Normises?

[dusky surge]

fuck carnos fighting stego

[fresh laurel]

Mind explaining

[dusky surge]

it normalises the stats so you can balance its other unique stats around that weight/health/blood value

[fresh laurel]

Simple we bring back 1000kg utah from the dead

[dusky surge]

deino, for example, has 8000 blood because it's 8 tons, HOWEVER, it also has a passive bleed resist and will bleed out much slower than other animals

[half girder]

true!!

[versed rune]

if a stego lets a carno get even 12 headshots on it then it absolutely deserves to die. all you gotta do is time a right click and one shot it in the face

[fresh laurel]

But wouldnt having its own hp stat be better

[dusky surge]

ehhh

it makes balancing a mess

and makes your max HP less clear

HP is very clear to players now

[fresh laurel]

Yiu can add it to menu thing

You*

Because ima be honest

I thought that would of made hp clear back then

[dusky surge]

but it's trying to keep the character menu in-universe, having "HP" alongside gestation and weight would just seem weird

[versed rune]

or you could just make a separate stat on the menu for HP. like weight=how well your abilities work against opponents, then add something like "durability" for hp. doesnt have to be that specifically but you get the idea

[dusky surge]

there's no way to quantify how many hits an animal can take, but you can weigh an animal

[versed rune]

i feel like at that point its best to just break the in universe rules

[dusky surge]

i find "durability" to be a copout, since there's no realistic way to quantify that

[versed rune]

because since when does this game have consistent lore anymore anyway

[dusky surge]

the lore seems like the most consistent thing so far lmao

[half girder]

@dusky surge what you think about pachy missed headbutt recovery

people say it needs a nerf

[fresh laurel]

Oops

Still had reply Xd

[fresh laurel]

More endlag

[half girder]

endlag?

[fresh laurel]

Yea

Means more punish

If you dont play it right

[half girder]

oh yeah

how it used to be

yeah the bouncing is so dumb

[fresh laurel]

Like miss that rmb in a utah fight and you are dead

[half girder]

i hate it honestly

[fresh laurel]

Because bleed is no joke

[fresh laurel]

Hate what

[half girder]

yeah, you can say that again

the fact that pachy can keep moving even after heabutt

[fresh laurel]

At least someone admits it

[half girder]

as a pachy main it get annoying

[fresh laurel]

Pachy swinging its head like that should make it feel a slight dizziness

[versed rune]

hot take, we need to move away from this whole "one hit from X creature and ur ded lole" idea. with the exception for things like deinos. cuz yknow. crocodile.

[fresh laurel]

Eh

Stego one shotting utah is fine ig

[versed rune]

i mean yea thats fine

im talking within reason

[fresh laurel]

Teno tail slam one shotting utah feels bad

Also

[versed rune]

like if something's massively larger and has knockdown or somethin then thats an exception

[fresh laurel]

Did you know

[dusky surge]

stego can one-shot carnos and its amazing to do

[fresh laurel]

Stego bite does same dmg as utahs

[versed rune]

oh yeah doesnt tail slam clean one shot utah on a headshot?

[fresh laurel]

If not more

[dusky surge]

stego is also like, 12 times its size and still falls behind lmao

[versed rune]

yet another reason why stego is cringe

[fresh laurel]

It can one shot head and body is stun which lets tebo use another slam and tail is funky

[fresh laurel]

Not sure about falling behind

Akward silence

[versed rune]

Im just so against this idea that the game seems to have where you have to spam click 20+ times to win against anything slightly larger than you, but big guys can right click once and simply win. it might make realistic sense but when it comes down to the actual gameplay, you get stuff like current stego where it cannot be killed by anything but a pack of utahs

[dusky surge]

i mean, it literally has a lower bite force

[versed rune]

its what made legacy insufferable. along with other things. but largely that.

[fresh laurel]

I think carnivores could get more attacks like herbis tbh

They only get 3 counting alt attack

[dusky surge]

i mean, only teno has 4 attacks

that's kind of its thing

[sinful cove]

we have two brawler herbivores and no brawler carnivores yet which may be one reason for that

[fresh laurel]

Probably the weight then

[dusky surge]

its not like carnis are really being left out in that department

[versed rune]

i mean to be honest

we have what

[dusky surge]

weight?

[versed rune]

5 carnivores??

[fresh laurel]

Stego bite does alot to utah

[dusky surge]

what would weight have to do with that

[versed rune]

ptera and deino cant really do much else besides peck/ lunge and bite

[dusky surge]

a utah bite does more to a utah

than a stego bite

[fresh laurel]

4

[versed rune]

oh wait

[fresh laurel]

Right?

[versed rune]

holy crap we do only have 4 carnies

wtf

[fresh laurel]

Yup

[versed rune]

awesome game

[fresh laurel]

I think giving carno and utah another attack could help them

[versed rune]

the only carnivore that really needs an extra attack is carno

and even then i wouldnt say extra

[fresh laurel]

I mean ppl complain about carno ram not being good

[versed rune]

just replace the dumbass alt bite with a headswing and call it a day

[fresh laurel]

People say utah kinda bad at low stam

[dusky surge]

i dont see the need for another attack, they're supposed to be fast-paced hunters, not brawlers like teno

[fresh laurel]

Utah could be fast paced with a claw attack tbh...

[versed rune]

there is literally no downside to giving dinosaurs more attacks when applicable

[dusky surge]

alt-bite is a claw attack

[fresh laurel]

Doesnt look like it

Looks like arm is aiming the bite

[dusky surge]

it absolutely uses its claws

[fresh laurel]

Idk i just dont see it

Maybe a slow down of the animation

[versed rune]

it spices things up other than carnos just going charge>miss>bite>drift>bite>charge

[half girder]

juvie utah got a 5 second pounce on me and im on 70% bleed only trotting

[fresh laurel]

Look my point is

[dusky surge]

we have animals like stego which have only two attacks, do we give it 4 attacks?

[fresh laurel]

Canis are going bite bite and maybe one special move

[dusky surge]

and dryo literally has one attack

[fresh laurel]

Thats dryo

Dryo!

The least viable

[versed rune]

as i said above,when applicable

[dusky surge]

okay, why isn't stego applicable

what makes carno and utah applicable

[fresh laurel]

Ppl were asking for a quick version of tail smack sooo...

[versed rune]

because what else is stego going to do??

you could give it a different type of swing

[dusky surge]

use its tail while moving to swipe away enemies following it

[versed rune]

like a sprint swing

[fresh laurel]

Like a low swipe

Look im just saying carni fights feel boring

You only really dodge and bite

[versed rune]

im thinking a 180 swipe that can be used while sprinting that takes like 30% stam but has strong power

[dusky surge]

that's probably because the carnis we have are really "dodge and bite" style animals

[versed rune]

other than that what else does stego NEED

[fresh laurel]

Nerfs or be removed

Ggez

[versed rune]

true

[fresh laurel]

Game fixed

Balance saved

[dusky surge]

nah, imo, with a finished roster, stego is utterly fucking trash

[versed rune]

good

[fresh laurel]

Stego

[dusky surge]

would get bodied by a rex ez

[versed rune]

[fresh laurel]

Was not meant to be added yet

[versed rune]

OR

you could add a new type of stun

[fresh laurel]

No

NO MORE STUNS

Pls

NO MORE

[versed rune]

which disables attacks and nothing else for 2 to 3 seconds

[fresh laurel]

Bruh

[versed rune]

give that to stego so apexes cant face tank it

[fresh laurel]

Idk man

[versed rune]

and make stego a target for mid tiers over apexes

[fresh laurel]

We shouldnt be talking about this yet

[versed rune]

interesting unique playstyle

[fresh laurel]

Too early into game

[versed rune]

counters apexes, vulnerable to mids and smalls

[frail flicker]

Ez idea, Ptera flys to radio tower and DDosses the server letting it peck anything it wants to death before anyone can log back in

[versed rune]

smalls meaning utah/dilo

[dusky surge]

imo, if we want a carnivore with "lots of attacks", literally cera imho

[versed rune]

true