balance-feedback-discussion

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't even say that I was done fighting Carno pack I just did a 180 and went after the Utahs when they appeared and left the Carnos to their own devices the moment I saw Utahs because I wanted to see how this match up works now

[primal dove]

ok fine utah loses stamina as fast as on a normal pounce

Should we buff buck then if u say that my suggestion would be a nerf for bucking

both sides lose if the utah just stays on, if a stego for example bucks while a utah is just grappled on it, it will be bitten and if the utah spams RMB it will fall down in 1s (literally)

If the utah just stays on it will lose stam and deal no dmg but the stego can still kill other utahs that go for bites, where the hell is a nerf for any side in there?

[sinful cove]

The person bucking can choose to attack people who get close regardless. Plus, they are bucking when the raptors come in to bite, as the suggestion said. It is a nerf to buck because the literal only change is utahs can hang on and render the buck useless

It changes nothing except the fact that utahs can stay latched on

So yes, it's a nerf

Bucking costs stam so it is a plain loss

[hexed sorrel]

I said 15, and I never said JUST juvie carno, I was mentioning my experience with juvie carno, but 6, especially when its lowering every second when you spawn. is just ludicrous I mean, It took me like 25 bites to kill a juvie teno shortly after that message. and a juvie teno can just 4 shot you? like what

[primal dove]

ok how would u change my suggestion then?

[barren oracle]

Have it not exist that seems dumb

I dont want no utah stuck on me for ages

or consequences for trying to get it off

And what if two utahs are pounced on? can one just stay on during a buck while the other does damage?

and they can cancel attacks

[primal dove]

yes

but canceling gives them a 2s cd to do so again

honestly if yall don't like this then just make utahs bite deal more bleed

[sinful cove]

means nothing against a pack. your idea is just a death sentence to anybody who encounters a pack

if buck received such a daming nerf then the punishment for messing pounce as utah would have to be greatly increased which would just lead to more people whining

utah already hunts tenonto and even stego in packs, ive seen it, ive heard other people doing it, it is fine

[primal dove]

I know, utah is really good atm and I killed a stego a few moments ago lol but I just don't like how simple bucking is

footage is 32 minutes long and the f*cker drowned himself in a deino infested river

[sinful cove]

so if "utah is really good atm" why do you want to nerf buck? seems like you just want everyone else to take their hands off their keyboards and let themselves die if a pack rolls up

[primal dove]

I don't want to nerf buck! I want to make it more wild and active, charging utahs into a wall would be smth. I'd love to see for example

[sinful cove]

your suggestion is literally nerf buck by letting utahs stay on during it

and wall scraping was removed

[primal dove]

That sucks

[sinful cove]

it is still a nerf to buck, re-adding wall scraping is an unrelated "solution" as well

right now you can rub a utah against a tree and it just goes through the tree like some danny phantom bs

[primal dove]

ok well I'll try to think about an other solution for this

is bucking in a good state for u rn?

[sinful cove]

it glitches out half the time

so not really, but it is hard to judge when it breaks half or more of the time

either stam doesnt drain properly on it or it randomly cancels out

[half girder]

bucking needs work, alot.

kool that it takes very little stam tho

i just want my body fracture buff

[placid reef]

@alpine plover finally more people realise that pachies alt literally negates what is supposed to be its weakness, also i think tail slam is supposed to override headbut not the other way around

[dusky surge]

I wish pachy got rebalanced to rely less on altbite during confrontations with utahs

Pachy has, imho, the best alt-bite in the fucking game

Speedy, check
High damage, check
Low stam cost, check

All this alone would make it top tier as a good alt-attack, except it also knocks down

[placid reef]

i've been saying that pachys alt is literally busted for some time now and people still negated that

[barren oracle]

It has knock down that my only personal problem

[cedar shore]

@alpine plover Utah has a very good chance at facing off pachys in a 1v1 or even 2v1, you just gotta know how to fight them 😉

[turbid steeple]

weak game

[alpine plover]

right? unfortunately out of 50-60 utah I killed in the past few days, none of them were good enough then I guess

If you die to a Utah in 1v1 as a Pachy, you just terrible at the game.

[barren oracle]

Fun fact

2.4 seconds after a failed head butt you can alt bite

[alpine plover]

Again, the guy just comes in stating something with literally nothing to base it on. No explanation, nothing. I explained thoroughly the situations and why Pachy feels too strong, and I'm saying as a person who favors Pachy currently over every other playable. If it's just too strong then it is, no matter how much I like it.

[barren oracle]

Luv pachy

its so fun to stun lock people

[alpine plover]

The best is as a Duo imo. Switching the bonks. Carno literally won't be able to do anything just watch itself Die

I love it, or when you send a Utah flying

[cedar shore]

Im not trying to start a debate here or whatever, im just saying lol. ALT bite on utah is severely unerutilized and it shreds pachys if used correctly

pachy is honestly one of the most well balanced dinosaurs in the game right now imo

[alpine plover]

If you alt bite a Pachy that knows it's job, you will die.

[calm ibex]

ima just gonna add that all of your feedback is pointless if you dont back it up with evidence, videos preferably, just putting lines and lines of text means nothing

[alpine plover]

I agree and disagree with this. I think if you can explain your reasoning you can see if there's evidence behind it or not.

[calm ibex]

i think its just more likely that QA takes a good look at feedback that shows "proof", explanation and suggestions as to what to change potentially, more likely it ends up being seen by balance team or hypno or who ever it is

[alpine plover]

I'm basing my feedback on mine and few of my friends's experience. Which doesn't necessary means it is 100% right, but since I'm getting the same feedback from different people aswell, I feel like my feedback is based, especially because I even explain the issues and situations. And for people that says, "Well yeah, I could kill a Pachy as a Utah" or etc, yeah, it's not impossible obviously, but balance should never rely on extremes, that's just common sense. I played 20+ hours in the past few days just with Pachy. Both in survival and deathmatch environment. Feel free to prove me wrong anytime, and I even go and play with the " doubters" if it's necessary, there are instant growth servers or servers where you can practice combat

[cedar shore]

Im down to show you my strategies if you want

[alpine plover]

Im gonna dm you later on so we can 1v1.

[obsidian crow]

@sinful cove Nice 4 emojis that are all by you, maybe give some actual feed back lol.

[sinful cove]

My feedback: take a chill pill bro

[obsidian crow]

i am chill, its like that's it reaction no feedback?

[sinful cove]

Hard to make a rational response to what is essentially just a salt mine from somebody who is fuming with rage

[obsidian crow]

i love your magical skills to tell emotion through a message, just a typical child claiming someone is angry or salty lol.

[sinful cove]

I killed 3 separate pachies as utah with some rando group mates before, and utahs can hunt stego and teno

[obsidian crow]

its like nah i posted it to see what the community thought

[sinful cove]

Calling names makes you look salty

[obsidian crow]

name calling?

where

[sinful cove]

Lmao youre so blinded with rage you already forgot calling anybody who disagrees with you a kid

[obsidian crow]

lmao what are you talking about? i literally mentioned my feedback then told you to give proper feedback? like what.

[sinful cove]

Also just called me a child

[obsidian crow]

you are acting like one

so there for you are a child.

[sinful cove]

Because i disagree with you

[obsidian crow]

no thats not it

[barren oracle]

That is one salty piece of feedback

[sinful cove]

Right??

Lmao

[obsidian crow]

i aint gonna argue in a feed back discussion, you claiming to tell my emotions and calling me salty or angry is childish.

so there for called you one

good day

[sinful cove]

I sure am glad disagreeing with your salt lake rant has rewinded my age so i can relive my childhood all over again

[barren oracle]

sounds like you lost your utah to a pachy and because you immediately didnt win its OP

[sinful cove]

Reminds me of that guy in feedback way back who suggested that utahs 1-2 shot pachy

[obsidian crow]

And you guys just remind me of kids that never get off video games lmao. Proves you guys never read the entire thing i mentioned how pachy dmg to a utah seems normal due to similar size, So yes continue your only profession which is sitting in a chair lol.

[sinful cove]

[half girder]

@obsidian crow please get good and get over it, pachy is so easy to kill as utah you just dont know how baiting works. I'll understand if it was lag or desync that made you get hit but come on man, pachy bleed is absolutely horrid, needs a buff tbh. I killed full adult pachy as a fresh sub utah 😆 even if there are 3-4 pachy against ur 2 utahs, if far away enough from a mud pool you can really ruin a pachys day no matter the pack size cuz 90% they'll bonk each other and make mistakes. If they chase you thats less stam for them cuz utah has better trotting stam regen, so maintain your stam and wait for a a headbutt then pounce, it is harder then it sounds but in time youll learn and destroy pachy.

[sinful cove]

Did he leave the server

[placid reef]

he would lose the roles if he did that so i dont think so

[sinful cove]

Weird

[placid reef]

im more curious not about whats missing but about whats in the image...

[grave veldt]

[frosty heron]

The post was obviously salt but the Pachy vs Utah matchup is , due to the current state of the game, favoured to the Pachys , and honestly if a Pachy can 1 shot an Utah with the proper combo I dont see why a proper pounce its "unbalanced" for the Pachy , I have to remind that Pachy is a 500 kg animal and has the same grow time as Utah

[hollow canyon]

Herbivores are just too good in general, it's as simple as that.

I thought that the diets were a bit of a downside for them since they don't free growth before reaching 50% but honestly the more I play the less of an issue getting those three nutrients becomes.

[alpine plover]

@alpine plover I think there are multiple other ways to fix it.

Way 1. You make it so a Pachy can't cancel attacks
Way 2. Slow down the alt attack
Way 3. Make the recovery of the missed headbutt longer.(Imo, if a Utah is basically found with insta-death all because it misses a special ability, so should Pachy with an ability that is(imo) way more devistating)

[alpine plover]

AND cc

Literally does everything

High dmg, knocks down and stuns, extremely fast AND low stam cost

[half girder]

@alpine plover LMAO

nerf alt attack and head fracture?

bro get fucking good with utah and figure out the timing, its so so sooooo easy to kill pachys man, the knock down is perfect incase you are being overwhelmed by utahs, i cant believe people prob even agreed with that dogshit lmao

and for carno, maybe use its ability??? literally insta kills. Lastly if you know you are going to be going against 3 pachys with a pack of lets say 4-6 utahs and you cant kill one? thats a skill issue on utahs part. Not always a skill issue though, from playing utah recently i understand that desync, fps and lag can really smack u in the face so it wont always come down to skill atm. but come on man.

[rancid bluff]

ryk already said that it's really easy for a pachy to dodge a carno ram, even if they notice last second, though I haven't gotten into a fight/hunt with a pachy as anything in the release of update 4 so I don't have much of a say in this

[half girder]

the way the map is designed where the whole server literally hangs in one spot really will put a hurt on carno cuz its in an open area where anyone can see anything coming

ofc unless they arent paying attention

i would slightly increase the stam cost for a tap charge and reduce the cc for smalls that are around pachy weight. same goes for alt bite

tbf i think pachys get way too much time for doing really quick attacks

[feral flume]

So I think that the whole only wallow at mud holes is a pretty bad choice. If wallowing is the only way to mask your scent and important for bleed heal, there should either be a good amount more mud pools or they should add “deep mud” spots by rivers and in swamps that are scattered about that you can take a wallow at. maybe this would last less time or something but I feel there’s a need for more opportunities to wallow. I’d like some other opinions on it.

maybe not even deep mud or whatever just something or anything help players with the general absence of wallowable mud

[alpine plover]

What do you mean get good with Utah? You realize that I'm talking from a Pachy PoV right? I'm not talking out of salt xD

Pachy is just to good right now, thats it. It's funny that a very few people disagree with me and tell the exact opposite, when the youtube is full of vids about pachys destroying everything. Played through multiple days as a Pachy on both EU and NA servers, Utahs were a joke, same goes for Carnos. Alt attack knockdown and head fracture is just too good, it needs a minimal nerf. It wont destroy Pachy at all, it will just make it not ridicoulus.

I don't even want to talk about how once you bonk a Utah, sometimes as a Pachy you can't even land a hit on it while it's on the ground, which is something that should be fixed and would make pachy even better against it.

[half girder]

i can see the immunity window being a balance though it does look dumb and sometimes it feels as if the immune window extends cuz of the mechanic being wonky rn

and if head fracture is nerfed it should be very slightly, cuz leg break is actually canca to get and body fracture does not do the job.

[alpine plover]

Yeah leg fracture is hard to get for some reason

[hollow canyon]

Carno is meant to be exactly in the open, what are you even talking about?

[sinful cove]

Ptera getting hatchlings/juvies on its diet would be fine (it should replace the hypsi preference honestly) but it doesn’t need an attack buff, it can already kill small juvies without much trouble

[barren oracle]

Ptera is fine

[marsh lion]

Eh I guess so

[sinful cove]

I can kill bad juvie carnos with it so its good enough

Something so untouchable doesnt need any attack buffs

[sinful cove]

has Upinsky not played this patch and realized that pounce works now?

[barren oracle]

probably missed it and died

[primal dove]

U defenitely can kill a pachy as a utah, quite easily even but it pachy still needs some changes and tunes here and there.

Also why can it carry 2 utahs on its back as if those were small chicken.

[frail flicker]

On the basis of wallowing, if we could wallow at River sides again with the exception that it takes litteral ages I think it'd be balenced, the reason for the time to get longer that say at a deeper mud pool is because there's less mud and your dino has to work harder to get itself covered my that thin layer of mud

[half girder]

doesn’t seem to work out does it 😬

unless again you charge someone typing or very unaware orrrr overwhelmed

which imo is very rare unless it’s a baby pachy cuz they are very dumb

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't which is an issue with its design

[half girder]

so what would you change

[hollow canyon]

I've said that like twice today I think, I'm a bit busy right now, if you read up in general feedback or here you should be able to find it

if not I will write that down a bit later again

in general there is a couple of things that can be done about this animal but the devs need to decide how they want it to play

and go from there because atm it's all over the place

[primal dove]

alt bite should be a literal dodge imo

for utah

[alpine plover]

Doesn't sound too bad actually

[placid reef]

seem kinda useless for a predator

the things utah is running away from are much slower than it or have/should have well or carno with bad agility and worse in forests

[half girder]

i use it to dodge lol

[alpine plover]

You'd have to take into account that not all abilities would need to be inherent attacks

As the function of them is to serve and support the playstyle and into the kit of the animal

Dryo's dodge would be an example, (if implemented correctly) It would aid into it's escape

You could play around the idea possibly with a dodge supporting it in combat to aid it's other abilities or positioning

For a Utah's case

[half girder]

dryo dodge is dogwater.

[primal dove]

just make utahs alt bite a literal dodge maybe it could kinda scratch with its claws while doing so or smth like that

make it cost way more stam tho

[half girder]

idk stam is key to utah pounce tho

i wouldnt use dodge if it costs alot

rather just zig zag

[placid reef]

thats why its getting a rework

[half girder]

im getting an idea of a charge where the carno can use its body weight to knock things over from the second clip i sent 🤔

[sinful cove]

Idk why charge doesnt yeet shit like pachy's alt does

I want to see a utah get sent flying

[half girder]

true

[alpine plover]

It should be the other way around

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/6aKevqRHNVMAW/d1337PEH6Z7K?invite=cr-MSxEYUosNjY1MTQxMSw

is this dumb or am i just being salty

[half girder]

its dumb lol

[alpine plover]

so annoying lol

[sinful cove]

#general-feedback message

Only thing missing, the great yeet ),:

[half girder]

teno slamming me from 3 feet away from it

[alpine plover]

think it was my turn that got me killed

but yeah still so far away

[sinful cove]

Damn he just walks away like “my job here is done” lmao

That was cold

[alpine plover]

they should make tenos and pachys predators at this point

they're such effective killing machines i swear

Lmao

Well that is true

They brawl so good

[sinful cove]

Utah: drinking water
Tenonto: “and I took that personally”

[half girder]

yeah we need cera asap

[sinful cove]

We shoulda gotten cera instead of carno tbh, brawler pair

[grave veldt]

Ngl pachy is the greatest ambush predator

[half girder]

i think im gonna calm down on the aggro side with pachy, from what i played as carno abit ago i can see it getting annoying ONLY IF there arent many carnos on

tho i did kill one and its funny seeing them flee and spam 4 call

life hard as solo carno, with aggro ass tenos too

[half girder]

eh, since i know how they are now i dont really get ambushed anymore

i just wait for my opportunity rather its them cracking a coco or eating animation

really easy to pick them off

but then i heard like 20 utahs so i logged cuz im not trying to die to that bs bleed

[alpine plover]

Again it comes down to roster choices

Teno and Pachy feel too strong because there's no real threat to discourage them to immediately flee

Stego's power indicates and thrawts attempts when it comes to mix herding, again which has no reliable threat

That and Carno/Utah are flawed in implementation compared to their brawler counterparts

[half girder]

killing a pachy as utah isnt the hardest

a teno tho.. yeah teno is something else

and stego.. yeah stego should be locked off

[alpine plover]

Utah can kill Pachy, just not in a reliable way that doesn't feel cheap
Utah is viable, but it's flawed in the method in how it's viable

[half girder]

i killed like 3 so far, not the hardest thing but damn its scary

[fervent tusk]

Yeah the problem is that the threat from carnos and utahs isn't high enough to discourage pachy/teno/stego players from going full aggro and killing on sight.

[half girder]

i killed a pachy with a 2 second pounce and like 2 bites

i gave my feed back on how tap charge and alt bite can be tweaked

[half girder]

true

[alpine plover]

That's also a fair point
Teno/Pachy and Carno/Utah have similar growth as counterparts to the both factions

Issue is as brawlers the Herbies have to be stronger since they don't control the engagement

Herbies can and should use aggression as a defense mechanism. But you can adjust the scales while satisfying the rules

[fervent tusk]

The hitbox issue is the main thing imo. You have to be so careful as a utah or carno just because you get clipped when you're seemingly clear. Personally I don't think 5-6 Utahs or 2-3 Carnos should ever feel truly threatened taking on a smaller number of herbos. I mean it's sort of accepted that a pack of 5 or so Utahs is going to lose at least one in a scrap with 3-4 tenos, and that's mainly due to the tail strike hit box being so busted.

[alpine plover]

To do that is the tricky part

[grave veldt]

Depends on what herbivore you’re actually attacking

[fervent tusk]

I specified.

[half girder]

i think its the desync

pachy has a nice balance with its bleed tho, u hit ur pounce and its game ovr

when more dinos drop we'll see the play count of pachy drop, im sure

[fervent tusk]

Idk I don't think herbos should be able to actually threaten any carnos in a straight up fight.. the nature of the things was to inflict damage if they could and get the hell outta dodge.

[half girder]

that comes down to the players man, cant control the players

[fervent tusk]

Mmm you can balance it by changing stats.

[grave veldt]

?

[half girder]

so nerf the dino into submission

[fervent tusk]

Give the herbos less stam drain and less dmg on attacks, but allow them to inflict fractures more meaningfully.

[half girder]

so dinos can face tank aahhh

[fervent tusk]

what do you mean by dinos?

[grave veldt]

so your saying just for an example a teno should try and escape a carno because it shouldnt threaten it fighting it straight up?

[half girder]

i dont like this take my man

[grave veldt]

Ye I’m not too keen on this either

[fervent tusk]

Correct, to an extent. I mean is there any true reason why a large predator should just get smacked around by a smaller herbivore? You don't see that in nature anywhere.

[grave veldt]

Honey badgers, porcupines

[fervent tusk]

honey badgers are predators

porcupines simply run

[grave veldt]

But apart from that tho your asking for a teno who’s slower then carno and roughly the same size to try n run way

[frosty heron]

Buffalos are capable to wreck Lions sometimes

[half girder]

i think it comes down to the player

kissen explained it really well

[fervent tusk]

Sometimes. But it isn't the goal for the buffalo to stand and fight a lion.. You see how they react. They'll stand and front until the actual hunt is on, charging singular lions to try to scare them away. But once they break and start to run, it comes down to lucky kicks and out stamming the lions

[half girder]

bro its a game lol u want mfs to play immersive?

[grave veldt]

Real world animals and the isle shouldn’t have a correlation

[fervent tusk]

I'm saying give the herbivores a shot at inflicting enough dmg to make a carno second guess, and enough stamina to get out

[grave veldt]

No that’s terrible

[half girder]

join an rp server

[sinful cove]

Since youre using real line as a basis for your argument, you know lions have like 30% hunt success rate right?

[grave veldt]

You are literally saying herbis shouldn’t be able to kill carnivores essentially

[fervent tusk]

Okay so in y'alls eyes a teno is fully fine being able to stand toe-to-toe with a similarly sized carnosaur?

[half girder]

immersive andy dude

[frosty heron]

@fervent tusk Consider this is a game and devs have to balance it out that way, not making it a extreme realism ecosystem where herbs should react like irl animals that just would make them unviable and annoying to play

[grave veldt]

Balance wise it’s perfectly fine

[sinful cove]

If herbivores can’t absolutely wreck a predator's shit then there's absolutely nothing pushing predators in to calculating their actions and being careful

[calm ibex]

you'd make teno a discount pachy that way, they'd break your bones and use that extra stam to tear you apart afterwards

[grave veldt]

The slower dino can fight the faster dino seems pretty balanced

Remember that carno dictates the entire fight

[fervent tusk]

Is it? Because the carno can't eat without killing said teno, but the teno doesn't actually give a fuck whether or not the carno dies from a food standpoint lol

[grave veldt]

Carno can eat ai or something else

[half girder]

thats the game man.

[sinful cove]

Then the carno should a. Find a different thing to hunt or b. Play better

[fervent tusk]

You keep saying "that's the game"

[half girder]

it is?

[fervent tusk]

well we all seem to think the games pretty shit right now lmao

[half girder]

it is lmao

[calm ibex]

sadly carno is the fastest thing in the current game, and because of that you have to fight it head on or just stop existing

[fervent tusk]

Game is shit, but discussing how to change it is also shit

Got it

Think about a cheetah

[half girder]

didnt say that

[sinful cove]

If the solution you give is shit then yrah

[grave veldt]

Cheetah and carno are wildly different

[fervent tusk]

fastest land creature, can only maintain that speed for ~15 seconds

[grave veldt]

Don’t compare balance issues with real world animals

[fervent tusk]

dude

[sinful cove]

Cheetahs get their asses beat by everything lmao

[fervent tusk]

simpy drawing relatives

[grave veldt]

.

[barren oracle]

That’s true to all games

[sinful cove]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-kaperoo-the-isle-path-of-titans-gif-23526654

[barren oracle]

Someone gimme a tldr I want in

[frosty heron]

I dont usually defend Herbievores, but yes im totally fine with that if you can properly kill it with strategy , not just straight up destroy it on a 1v1, its slower than you , it should be able to defend itself, the problem In this version might be that Teno vs Carno its on a bad position because Teno its overpowering Carno a bit too much , thats a thing I have to yet test

[half girder]

he wants herbis to fear carnis

[fervent tusk]

I want prey to fear predators, yes.

[barren oracle]

That’s dumb

[fervent tusk]

that's how this shit should work lmao

[sinful cove]

He wants herbis to not be able to deal enough damage to neutralize their paired predators

[grave veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-the-isle-kaperoo-path-of-titans-gif-23526684

[fervent tusk]

Didn't fuckin say that

[half girder]

lmao

[barren oracle]

Herbis should be stronger than them if anything

[alpine plover]

Yeah they should

[sinful cove]

He wants herbivores to eat grass and die if a carno looks at them

[barren oracle]

They’re defensive ability is a lot higher

[half girder]

we need a hippo in the game rn

[fervent tusk]

Putting words all the way in my mouth

[grave veldt]

That’s still what it comes down to that’s what ur saying

[barren oracle]

So what do you want

[alpine plover]

But the tool kit for Carnies is pretty lacking to circumvent that power difference
Is probably want Steve is really getting at

[fervent tusk]

Exactly. Let the defense be strong, the problem is the offense is strong too

[sinful cove]

You literally said you want them to deal less damage and focus on running away from the predators that are faster than them

[alpine plover]

Lmb'ing/facetanking Herbies is really jank

[barren oracle]

It’s not? All carnivores are faster than their paired herbi

[alpine plover]

So we should get more mechanics and intuitive means to overcome the general power gap

[fervent tusk]

I said allow them to inflict injury, with the fracture system, and be able to get gone, just as they should want to.

[sinful cove]

No lol

[grave veldt]

Lmao

[sinful cove]

Thats cringe

[fervent tusk]

Oh okay

[barren oracle]

That’s pachys whole thing

[grave veldt]

Imagine crippling a carno and just letting it live

[sinful cove]

If a utah or carno fucks up let them die

[barren oracle]

Teno and stego should slaughter their opponents

[fervent tusk]

It's not cringe that a pachy can knock a full grown utah down then kill it with 2 bites

got it

[sinful cove]

They’re brawlers for a reason

[alpine plover]

If we use realism as an example
Big cats can apply killing techniques not reliant on raw slashes and bite to bring down significantly larger prey
By suffocation or asphyxiation

[barren oracle]

Utah can kill it with one pounce what’s your point

[sinful cove]

Utah can kill pachy just as quick

[grave veldt]

But pouncing a pachy and it bleeding out every easily is fine?

[alpine plover]

Steve stop, you mean well but your points are really bad

[barren oracle]

Shhhh game

[half girder]

ah yes let me make something that will come back to kill me heal up when i have it in a corner!

[alpine plover]

Yeah it's a game
But why not have interesting systems rather than lmb's?

[fervent tusk]

I mean getting ganged up on, having my words minced and warped is tons of fun for me, truly.

[half girder]

if i leg fracture a mf im killing it, body fracture, sure they can go

[frosty heron]

Problem with Pachy is not the animal, its the desync and performance

[half girder]

yes

[barren oracle]

There’s rmbs too though

[sinful cove]

He wants nothing to keep the low skill carni population in check while herbis just give them a warning bonk and run away

[fervent tusk]

Who the fuck said that?

[barren oracle]

Did you lose a Utah in a fight against a pachy recently?

[fervent tusk]

Mir you're an actual dick lol

[sinful cove]

You

[alpine plover]

Death by techniques or methods would be significantly more interesting than just slaughtering larger creatures with jank mechanics

[fervent tusk]

Again. Put more words in my mouth.

[grave veldt]

I’m sorry but I’m just gonna stop responding to this cuz this convo is the worst thing I’ve read today

[barren oracle]

So wut do you want

[half girder]

true im out of here lmao

mf wants legacy back

[fervent tusk]

Never played legacy but alright

[half girder]

funny.

[calm ibex]

like i said, just discount pachies

and pachies dont run

[fervent tusk]

Sorry but you seem to think that the herbivores one shotting carnos is okay and I just don't get that?

[sinful cove]

-brawlers
-slower than their paired predators

Steve: “they shouldnt kill their attackers lol”

[barren oracle]

I failed to loop the conversation I feel sad now

[grave veldt]

Guys stego one shots carno it’s op and broken

[fervent tusk]

If it's harder to kill them, and you have to sit and heal before attacking again, that's a win for an herbivore.

[barren oracle]

More of a prolonged problem

[sinful cove]

Guys a 6 ton animal with swords on its ass one shits a pauedo mid tier thats 100000% faster than it, OP

[sinful cove]

“Before attacking again” is not a win for the herbivore

[grave veldt]

Even then u need a head shot a body shot will let it live

[grave veldt]

This is the problem

U don’t want it to attack again

[barren oracle]

Plus where is the satisfaction in it killing them. That only happens with pachy

[grave veldt]

U want to kill it now

[alpine plover]

Well, Pachy might not be the best example

[grave veldt]

Eliminate your predators not let them live

[alpine plover]

It's overtuned atm

[barren oracle]

Same fun

[calm ibex]

tracking prey is pretty easy in this game, that on top of superior mobility make it so that fleeing is not very relevant option

[sinful cove]

It isnt a win as a brawler unless you’re sending the person who tried to kill you back to the selection screen

[fervent tusk]

It is if the thing tracking you is physically broken

[alpine plover]

You can quite literally double combo the Headbutt, doing absurd amount of damage in a short amount of time
And the alt attack is way too good for the stam it costs

[fervent tusk]

But the tracking system is broken too, so bringing that into the discussion is irrelevant

[barren oracle]

Yeah but that’s boring where is that satisfaction. How can you 1 call on their body if their body is healing in a bush

[fervent tusk]

We all know that you shouldn't be able to lock on to footprints for an hour and track something clear across the map

[barren oracle]

I mean if mud pools were better that would be fine

Dryo and hypsi are runners they run

Teno and stego are brawlers they beat the shit out of you

[sinful cove]

Stego is more defensive than brawler

Brawlers can play on the offense at close ranges, stego is too slow to

[barren oracle]

And pachy is a mix where it beats the shit out of you and chooses weather you live or die

[fervent tusk]

All I'm saying is that there's absolutely no deterrent for a teno or pachy to see a carnivore and immediately attack right now. Stegos would, too, if they could keep up. My suggestion was to adjust the raw dmg of herbivores to prevent them killing carnos so easily, as that's not really the nature.

[barren oracle]

Less problems

[alpine plover]

I disagree with that sentiment

[barren oracle]

More fun

[calm ibex]

teno has pretty bloated stats across the board to be fair, its gonna get hit hard with nerf hammer down the line, as for stego it does not need to be able to sprint around

[barren oracle]

It’s boring walking in a triangle and eating food waiting for someone to attack you

I want to attack them

[fervent tusk]

Sucks to suck?

[barren oracle]

Cause fun

[alpine plover]

It'd cause far less issue if Carno/Utah got tweaks to compensate
Not with more damage or stats, but more techniques available to them to overcome the power vacuum

[barren oracle]

If doesn’t suck right now

[alpine plover]

Utah and Carno sucking doesn't mean bring everything down to suck as well

[fervent tusk]

The fun should come from being on your toes, watching out for the things that can kill you, and feeling good when you thwart an attack and escape

[half girder]

they are sucking?

[alpine plover]

Kinda

[barren oracle]

Wdym they’re great

[half girder]

garb ass players lol

[alpine plover]

Yeah

They're sucky playables

[sinful cove]

That shits boring bruh

[alpine plover]

I'm just gonna put that out there
Utah and Carno suck

[sinful cove]

Not every herbi should be the same boring “run away” gameplay that’s cringe

[barren oracle]

The fun is shooting a guy till he’s low hp, running into a building and hiding, and letting them get a second chance

[sinful cove]

I want to gut my attacker and take selfies with their corpse

[fervent tusk]

Then play a different fuckin game. Making this one completely broken because you're bored is dumb as hell.

This isn't a FPS

[frosty heron]

Imagine a Stego running way Lol

[sinful cove]

Youre the one who wants to change it

[fervent tusk]

It's a fuckin dinosaur horror/survival game

[sinful cove]

You play a different game

[barren oracle]

Nah your opinion is obviously awful everyone hates it

[half girder]

its a joke

[fervent tusk]

^ true

[half girder]

atm at least

[barren oracle]

Lul true

[sinful cove]

And killing your attacker so they dont attack again is survival

[barren oracle]

I’m gonna make this a mod at some point and no one can stop me but that irrelevant rn

[fervent tusk]

I mean the current list of horror games don't follow that model, at all.. but okay.

[barren oracle]

That’s cause your meant to lose

[alpine plover]

Isle isn't a horror game
Maybe in name and genre but nothing in mechanics

[half girder]

timber ur going into bob territory from what i read

[sinful cove]

You want only one faction to run like pussies from everything despite having their own weapons

[barren oracle]

Horror only applies to humans

[half girder]

not my taste

[barren oracle]

I did with that mod I’m gonna make and I can’t avoid that

[fervent tusk]

Holy shit Mir, you're real good and taking what I say and just making up you're own shit dude

[barren oracle]

Horror

[fervent tusk]

your*

[grave veldt]

Stego runs away from carno

[barren oracle]

Still luv that clip

[sinful cove]

I aint making anything up, i am following what you said. Everything you say is a bad take

[half girder]

that soy boy scream lmao

[frosty heron]

[barren oracle]

It’s perfect

[sinful cove]

Herbivores irl KOS, even deer

[half girder]

should be human death sound tbh

[calm ibex]

would be hilarious if steggo whacked carno and gave it bonebreak plus like 10dmg, and run off to narnia

[grave veldt]

Stegos gets dryos dodge ability and loses its tail spikes

[barren oracle]

Burn the bird? Yes

[sinful cove]

Stego tail spikes deal fracture damage for some reason so they can run away from a utah

[fervent tusk]

Nah man you're straight up projecting some weird feeling you have and trying to rip apart an opinion. I get it if you main herbos, but they shouldn't straight up run shit.

[barren oracle]

Human 4 call* dondi screaming profanities is the death sound

[sinful cove]

Honestly you gotta be a troll or you have short memory and forget what you yourself say

[barren oracle]

Herbis cringe ptera gang all the way

[fervent tusk]

Ah the troll calling

[grave veldt]

Trike has to run away from Rex

[fervent tusk]

You're a dork, dude.

[barren oracle]

You just have a bad opinion

[frosty heron]

One of the reasons herbies are so aggro on most servers its the mixpacking , thats on players not the playables

Mixpacking is Cringe

[calm ibex]

^

[grave veldt]

End mix packing

[fervent tusk]

Fine for you to think that, but attempting to portray my opinion in a way that I haven't explained is fuckin stupid

[half girder]

yes!

[calm ibex]

having all diets on one spot makes mixpacking even worse

[barren oracle]

It’s fine if it’s a one off and you aren’t cannibalising or anything like that being honest

[half girder]

i killed a carno mixing with a pachy and stego the other day

[grave veldt]

Your opinion is that herbivores should run away which is laughable

[fervent tusk]

Bruh

You're paraphrasing, at best.

[sinful cove]

There are brawlers, defensive and flight animals. Only one of these should be running like steve wants

[grave veldt]

Fracturing and running away I should say which is even worse

[barren oracle]

Wut you want then

[frosty heron]

It isnt fine when you mix certain species as that makes broken combos and coverage to weaknesses

[barren oracle]

Carno pachy cough cough

[frosty heron]

Or Pachy Stego

[calm ibex]

pachy anything with raw power to be fair

[sinful cove]

Ive met pchies who were breaking peoples' legs to help feed their gator friends

[alpine plover]

Yikes

[barren oracle]

That’s normal Tbf

[barren oracle]

Pachys before fracture run lul

[frosty heron]

It is, but if you think on it, well performed its broken

[grave veldt]

becuz every diet is in center mix packing and mega herding is destined to happen

[sinful cove]

Yeah now you can just haul ass lol

[barren oracle]

It wasn’t even intentional for me it’s just fun to break legs and watch them try to run

[sinful cove]

I just like to hear the crunch

[frosty heron]

Myself as Stego completely wrecked a whole pack of Carnos because a Pachy suddenly showed up and started to CC them

[fervent tusk]

My opinion is that herbos should actually be afraid of carnos. The way the current mechanics function make it way too easy for a carno to get ripped apart. The pachy and teno hitbox is busted, and their bites deal a significant amount of DPS relative to the shit that's actually hunting them.

[frosty heron]

I just had to bonk

[barren oracle]

I like watching their friends try to help

[sinful cove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/543732635948679169/831434725309546496/image0-36.gif

[grave veldt]

Stego should be afraid of carnos

[fervent tusk]

Wasn't talking to you

[sinful cove]

Idc

[fervent tusk]

Leave stego out

[barren oracle]

Nah homie I’ve been living the high life with carno for like 6h in total just vibing with my full diet

[grave veldt]

No it’s a playable and will remain in the isle

[fervent tusk]

We're not talking about what's practically an apex

[grave veldt]

Why not?

It infers the same logic to them to

[barren oracle]

Tis an apex

[fervent tusk]

Because it was never apart of my points? I'm focusing on tenos and pachys?

[sinful cove]

If herbivore brawlers cant deal enough damage to neutralize their faster predators then they are fodder

[alpine plover]

I get your sentiment but the execution of your idea is flawed

[grave veldt]

With your logic trike would fracture Rex and run away

[barren oracle]

They beat the shit out of stuff cause they’re slow heavy hitters

[alpine plover]

Again, nerfing brawlers, and nerfing herbivores because of sucky carnivores
Means everyone loses

[barren oracle]

Not too hard to fasme

[fervent tusk]

Again, my issue isn't with what they do, it's how they do it.

[alpine plover]

We get way less cool herbies, and the issues with said carnivores don't get addressed

[barren oracle]

Beat the shit out of stuff? It’s reasonable

Woo more company to disagree with you

[fervent tusk]

A teno knocking a FG utah to the ground and one tapping it isn't reasonable lmao but alright man

[sinful cove]

Yeah it is

[barren oracle]

It is

[sinful cove]

Utah is tiny

[fervent tusk]

If you legit think the current game-state is fine, more power to you. Enjoy.

[barren oracle]

Utah is smol

[grave veldt]

Seems pretty reasonable lmao

[barren oracle]

Teno is big

[alpine plover]

It kinda is, if Utah has the means to bring it down

[barren oracle]

Utah try kill teno

Teno kill Utah

[alpine plover]

Right now the way Utah brings it down is cheap and unrewarding

[grave veldt]

The bigger and slower dino being stronger makes perfect sense

[barren oracle]

Shush bleed is just bad

[grave veldt]

Takes longer to grow too

[grave veldt]

True true

[sinful cove]

Utah is getting pummeled by a massive slab of meat and bone covered in thick skin and scutes, its gonna go splat

[alpine plover]

Nah, applying bleed is kinda lame too

[frail flicker]

From my own opinion, Herbs that cannot run should be able to defend or chase off a predator, and Pachy and teno do that, very effectivly, the issue rn is the swarm of pachys that pound everything like they're the hammer in a nail shop, which will get fixed when more playables are added, besides, I feel the herbs do infact fear carnivours, why else would they seek carnivours out to kill them first before they become an issue

[barren oracle]

Pounce is fine wdym

[fervent tusk]

Defend and chase off is good. Outright chase and kill is bad.

[barren oracle]

Ayyy the same argument that’s been here for 20m

[alpine plover]

It's not
Utah's is way too dependant on it, and it's not fun for the pounced to be melted and have long periods of prolonged death to a pursuer it can't chase down

[barren oracle]

It’s not chasing more like instakilling

[sinful cove]

It is human nature to seek out threats and eliminate them, and thats what herbi players controlled by humans are doing

So its just how it is

[frail flicker]

Eh, sorry to pull it all back to that, just got here

[barren oracle]

We can talk about this later but rn this

[fervent tusk]

So adjust mechanics to remedy it

[calm ibex]

i actually enjoy current utah, very based on good stamina management and knowing the bleed values

[barren oracle]

Nah the conversation is a loop, I’ve said “wut do you want” 3 times and got a reply Each time

[sinful cove]

Nothing to remedy

[fervent tusk]

Tenos hunting Carnos is a problem

[barren oracle]

Booo I wanna kill shit

[alpine plover]

If Steve can't bring it back with formulated points and satisfying explanations I'm just gonna ignore him

[fervent tusk]

You seem to just ignore my points lmao

[barren oracle]

But it’s funny to make fun of his lack of logiicccxxc

[grave veldt]

No it’s because your points don’t make sense

[alpine plover]

It's fun for 5 minutes

Afterwards it becomes a waste of time

[barren oracle]

Point is “herbis shouldn’t kill carnis cause why not”

[sinful cove]

Sounds like the carnos' problem

[fervent tusk]

when I say that's not how nature works, you tell me it's a game and to discount real life. When I say the game feels like shit, I get told "Is what it is"

[barren oracle]

Hey it’s 12:50 for me I’m enjoying myself

[frail flicker]

I'm more so interested in how Omnivours will play into the isle, because they're both prey and predator in a way

[sinful cove]

In nature, most predator hunts have very low success rates

[fervent tusk]

Not because they fucking die

jesus

[sinful cove]

In nature, deer kos an eagle sitting on the ground for fun

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em?

[grave veldt]

Hippo

[fervent tusk]

Hippo=stego equivalent. Shut up about it.

[sinful cove]

Hippos, elephants, buffalo, deer, horses, they all kfs

[grave veldt]

Never said that

[alpine plover]

You know what fine, let's run it back so we can talk about better things

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[grave veldt]

But the point is a herbivore will kill you and not think twice about it

[alpine plover]

Herbivores can and will kill you

And should kill you given the opportunity

[sinful cove]

Ive seen a deer run across several yards just to attack a dog that was just vibing

[fervent tusk]

Neat

[alpine plover]

Consistent attempts to kill a herbivore will result in death as a Carni if you make too many misteps/mistakes

The herbivore must kill you otherwise it has no means to defend itself

[sinful cove]

So if you wanna bring your nature bs excuse up, herbivores do the shit youre whining about irl in nature

[fervent tusk]

Sure they do

[alpine plover]

The only exception to the rule are flight herbivores

Which will escape rather than fight

[barren oracle]

My cat was kicked in the rib by a dog one time. Poor cat had 3 broken ribs, a broken leg and a hole in its stomach. Somehow still with me

[grave veldt]

Literally look it up

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[frail flicker]

Ive seen Humming birds beat the crap out of eachother to get food

[barren oracle]

Cow*

[fervent tusk]

Yeah whole ass herds of buffalo or wildabeast don't accidentally kill their own in massive stampedes because 5 lions walk up to them

[grave veldt]

Herbivores actively kill threats to themselves or their young

[fervent tusk]

never happens

[alpine plover]

In this case, Pachy's/Teno's cannot control the engagement
Meaning in this matchup they are not flight animals

[barren oracle]

I was thinking about dogs cause you said that lul

[alpine plover]

They are fight animals

[sinful cove]

Herbivores even kfs other herbivores

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[sinful cove]

Dam thats savage lol

Theres a vid of a horse walking up to a bird and just stepping on it for no reason lol herbis are dicks

[alpine plover]

So they must fight better and do so appropriately as it means it is there best means of defense. They cannot run to escape the engagement.

[barren oracle]

Cows are evil man I swear

I almost got killed by one as a kid

[calm ibex]

remove carno and tone down those herbs, ez fix 🙂 everyone happy

[barren oracle]

Thing just walked up to me and tried to kick me

[half girder]

yall still going?

[fervent tusk]

Most predator hunts in nature end unsuccessfully because the prey escapes, not because the prey kicks the shit out of the predator

[barren oracle]

Yeah it’s pretty fun

[sinful cove]

Replace carno with cera so we have a slower brawler carni

[half girder]

lmao

[barren oracle]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[fervent tusk]

Timber

[alpine plover]

Herbivores moving to kill Carni's works for them long term
As it prevent them from grouping up, packing up to formidable numbers, and protects weaker and young members
Meaning you're advised within game to kill them if given the opportunity

[barren oracle]

I want an answer!

[fervent tusk]

You're my favorite kind of person

[sinful cove]

Why shouldn’t we kill em

[fervent tusk]

I really hope you've had an amazing holiday bro

[grave veldt]

The prey sometimes does kill the predator or heavily injure it

[barren oracle]

Ty much appreciated

[alpine plover]

Now now, don't deflect

Get on the point

[barren oracle]

Dw I’ll ask it again soon

[fervent tusk]

What fucking point

[sinful cove]

Lots of cases of lions getting fucking destroyed by the things they try to hunt

[alpine plover]

Why shouldn't Herbies kill Carni's given the chance?

It's an effective long term strategy

[fervent tusk]

I NEVER SAID THEY SHOULDNT

[barren oracle]

Talking about soon when do you think we’re getting mods

[fervent tusk]

I SAID IT SHOULDNT BE SO DAMN EASY

AAHHHHH

[alpine plover]

There we go

[fervent tusk]

Holy fuck

[barren oracle]

Hahah we’re getting somewhere

[grave veldt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778350416831709314/925179684629655642/IMG_0651.png

[fervent tusk]

I fucking started with that

I don't get it

YES

[alpine plover]

Though the thing is, it's not that easy
Utah/Carno's have the speed and agility advantage

Meaning they can't kill you if you leave the confrontation

[fervent tusk]

FRACTURE THEM AND MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO KILL YOU

[sinful cove]

Its easy for utah to bleed a pachy out so why shouldn’t it be easy for pachy to turn utah's ribs and spine in to a jigsaw puzzle?

[fervent tusk]

DONT FUCKIN NEUTURE THEM WITH ONE HIT AND COMPELTELY SHIT IN THEIR MOUTHES

[barren oracle]

Right so you wish to nerf herbis so that fights lasts longer, in proposal you could also nerf everything

[alpine plover]

The Carni's control the engagements

[fervent tusk]

In what fucking universe? A teno out stams a carno all day

[barren oracle]

If nothing is good everything is good

[grave veldt]

Carno can easily run away

[barren oracle]

In running? Don’t think so, in fighting it’s like a 50\50 depending on who gets first hit

[fervent tusk]

I've been in groups of 5-6 carnos straight up fleeing aggro tenos that chase for days

[sinful cove]

Sounds like a skill issue

[alpine plover]

Depends
Carno's can easily escape within cover
Jungles are dense asf
Carno's are also the fastest thing in the game
The longer Teno chases, the worse in the fight it will be

[grave veldt]

^

[fervent tusk]

Yeah man, because the hitbox on tail slam is totally skill based and has nothing to do with a fucked up mechanic

[barren oracle]

Aren’t they slower with less stam though? Couldn’t you turn around and face tank them as soon as they’re out of stam from running?

[barren oracle]

More of a game issue tbh they really need to fix the ping…

[alpine plover]

Teno is locked in an animation, unable to move and is delayed after applying the slam

[frosty heron]

Uh, nope, that was on U3, on U4 Tenonto has the upper hand in combat

[alpine plover]

Desync is the shitty game's optimization's fault

But balance shouldn't be tweaked for that

[barren oracle]

I mean I can consistently kill them after getting one charge in

[frosty heron]

Bad Tenontos for sure but a decent/average Tenonto should wreck you straight up in a 1v1

[fervent tusk]

Balance should be tweaked to encourage people to play the species as it was designed.

[alpine plover]

Ofc

[fervent tusk]

You aren't hunting dick on a teno besides plants

[alpine plover]

Mmmmm

Nah

[sinful cove]

*play the species as you think it should be designed

[alpine plover]

Teno is a brawler
Therefore people apply it's kit as a brawler

[fervent tusk]

So allowing them to shit on FG carnos in a straight up fight is kinda fucking dumb

[alpine plover]

It literally has 4 attacks on it

[barren oracle]

On officials they kinda panic after a charge cause of the amount of red on their screen, you can kinda just face tank after that anyway

[fervent tusk]

You keep saying that but look at the anatomy for a second

[alpine plover]

Irrelevant

In the context of the game, it's a brawler
Designed to be, balanced to be

[barren oracle]

Yeah probably the reason why your slow and thicc

[sinful cove]

So you think its fair that the fg tenonto can die and the fg carno just gets an ouchie on its knee while the tenonto runs away so it can be attacked again later? Thats how you want it?

[barren oracle]

Hey anyone watched dr strange here?

[fervent tusk]

Slow and thick is fine, why do they need to do so much damage?

[alpine plover]

To brawl

[sinful cove]

To eliminate threats

[fervent tusk]

Talking in circles.

[barren oracle]

Cause they chonky and need to beat the shit out of carno players

[alpine plover]

Bring Allo in the mix
It sure as shit isn't brawling that

[fervent tusk]

I hope you all have the night you deserve, take care.

[alpine plover]

It'll be floored

[sinful cove]

Carnos are annoying af spam calling everywhere they need to die

[frosty heron]

Yeah basically a bad player, ive seen Tenos fighting even 2 decent Carnos in this build, theyre pretty scary to engage

[barren oracle]

Before we go anyone watched dr strange here?

[frosty heron]

1v2 I mean

[alpine plover]

Watched the first one

[barren oracle]

There’s more than one!?!?!?!

[sinful cove]

Pretty recently actually

[barren oracle]

When did this happen!?!?

[sinful cove]

Isnt multiverse of madness not here yet?

[alpine plover]

Right

[barren oracle]

Idk I don’t watch marvel stuff

[alpine plover]

Anyways to the point

[barren oracle]

I’m still busy watching my 1k episodes of one piece

So so so so so many episodes…

[barren oracle]

Ugh everything is kinda fine I guess

Utah is kinda boring otherwise we doing pretty fine

Kinda is an understatement

[sinful cove]

More variety to its pounce would be cool

[barren oracle]

The only joy I get as Utah is fighting pachys

[sinful cove]

Idk who made the suggestion for a sort of kickoff pounce

[alpine plover]

Lmao

[barren oracle]

Like the one from JWE2 yeah!!

[sinful cove]

They used indoraptor as an example yeah

[alpine plover]

I still standby that Carno/Utah suck

[sinful cove]

Would be a cool thing for utah

[barren oracle]

Where you kinda bounce off them

With a lil kick

[alpine plover]

I know they're viable but that doesn't mean they're in a good spot in terms of engagement and intuitive mechanics

[barren oracle]

Carnos a fine boy

[sinful cove]

Would be a pretty sensible thing to add to utah's toolkit

[barren oracle]

He needs more things to beat the shit out of though

[frosty heron]

Utah is fine, Carno might got a bit overnerfed

[barren oracle]

Fighting the same stuff gets boring cause players fall into this kinda “meta” play style

[alpine plover]

Also
viability doesn't always mean = well tuned/interesting

[alpine plover]

Utah is only fine viably

[barren oracle]

Yeah Utah boring af so is dryo

[alpine plover]

It still sucks and is janky in how it achieves this

[half girder]

utah isnt boring wym

[alpine plover]

I think it is

[barren oracle]

It’s boring when your not fighting pachys

[half girder]

i have fun fighting carnos

[alpine plover]

Though fun, is something that's more subjective
So would should switch goalposts from this point

[barren oracle]

It feels like different game where you shoot every so often to do damage

[half girder]

fighting a stego is meh

[alpine plover]

I'm phrasing that Utah is lackluster in how interesting it achieves it's viability

[barren oracle]

Utah is fun against carno till they start lagging. Then you in trouble lul

[half girder]

what would u want

[alpine plover]

It's essentially a one trick pony

[half girder]

yeah true, losing a dino to some bs is ass

[barren oracle]

Da kick!

[alpine plover]

utah is fun till a few stegos sit on a mudpit meaning any bleed you try on tenos or pachys means nothing

[barren oracle]

Or just more mechanics added to make it fun

[half girder]

yes

wym more?

what else would you give utah

[alpine plover]

I'd want multiple attacks doing different things to adjust to different situations or more methods to bring down prey/attackers

[barren oracle]

I loved doing this thing where I used admin to teleport onto tree branches and jumped players below. You watched their character head go up cause they jumped lul. I want climbing fr so I can do this

[half girder]

herra

[alpine plover]

Similarly like Teno
It's alt claw swipe is designed for trading blows and dealing with more nimble attackers
The Tail slam is a punishable power house to deal with larger opponents or dish out dangerous deterring attacks

[barren oracle]

More feels overkill but also needed

Utah’s already the hardest thing I don’t want it harder

[alpine plover]

Those are two different attacks with different functions that support it's defensive brawler playstyle

In comparison, Utah/Carno are more lacking

[sinful cove]

There are a couple things utah could logically get. A kick, a kickoff pounce, like why not?

[barren oracle]

Can’t they both have it

[alpine plover]

And imo
Herbie's should have size/weight/power advantage

[barren oracle]

I want austro

[half girder]

a kick off pounce?

[alpine plover]

Carnies should use mechanics/techniques/methods to bring down the power counterparts

[sinful cove]

Herbis should have advantage against their faster predators but that doesnt mean those predators' toolkits should be a one hit wonder

[alpine plover]

Exactly

Nor should the toolkits should be shallow and uninteresting

[barren oracle]

Just so I can be an alarm system at the water. Vibing on the surface knowing there is no deinos and letting players have a casual drink

[alpine plover]

Otherwise if it's remotely viable, then it feels cheap

Just like our current Utah

[barren oracle]

Deino utah and dryo need sum new stuff

[half girder]

yeah deino is asss

[sinful cove]

Dryo needs a dodge that isnt shit

[alpine plover]

This makes Utah either trash or cheap

[barren oracle]

Not even like the planned stuff just even more

Utah could get a kick

And maybe like a dodge like dryos

[alpine plover]

A kick/lash sounds cool

[sinful cove]

Deino could use fracture too, to represent its impressive bite force without making it a land gator

[barren oracle]

Except better

And less predictable

[half girder]

thats what i said

deino needs fracture

[alpine plover]

Deathroll/Thrash attack?

[barren oracle]

Nah we want tug of war, upwards lunge and fracture

All 3

No more no less

[sinful cove]

Yeah upwards lunge kinda appeared in concept and they never really made a move on it sadly, i hope its still coming

[alpine plover]

Yeah

Deinos's headshotting Stegos feels lame

[barren oracle]

Dryo should get some based night vision. Look at the lil dudes eyes

[alpine plover]

If there was a tug of war, if properly done it would make those engagements intense

[sinful cove]

Dryo and taco with good nightvision would make me happy

[barren oracle]

I remember them mentioning it once. Dunno when but it was mentioned

[sinful cove]

I dont think dryo even needs burrowing, it should just be agile and endurant as fuck with dodge and nv

[barren oracle]

Drop has some cool eyes

[sinful cove]

I want squirrel hypsi too

[barren oracle]

I want burrowing. It doesn’t look like it should with them floppy arms but it would be cool to run across the entire map through tunnels That head to all your diet locations + a POI

[sinful cove]

Taco deserves advanced burrowing more than dryo imo

[half girder]

hypsi needs the ability to see where its jumping when the nest in tree system comes out so its not too hard to jump onto a tree, like a leap ability ig

[sinful cove]

The long tunnels/multi chambers stuff

[barren oracle]

I want hypsi to have different spits, have the ability to pick up stuff with those sweet hands, have the ability to mount onto stuff like stego and magy to become a living Turret and the ability to eat bugs

[sinful cove]

I usually dont have trouble aiming hypsi jump rn except the way surfaces randomly bounce me off or are senselessly unlandable due to badly shaped hitboxes

[half girder]

imagine a hypsi throwing rocks

[sinful cove]

Different spits are planned afaik which is nice

[alpine plover]

Hypsi spitting and climbing would make it a convenient pick for me

[barren oracle]

I don’t know what this is and at this point I’m too scared to ask

[alpine plover]

Though we're all really assuming hard they burrowing and tree climbing don't suck and are jank as hell

Remember, temper expectations

[sinful cove]

You dont know psittacosaurus? Or advanced burrowing

[half girder]

hypsi will be crazy in the future, def could change the fight around if being attacked by rexes and stuff

[alpine plover]

Every inclusion of a concept has been regularly broken/mediocre

[barren oracle]

Is that what it is? The little porcupine thing?

[sinful cove]

Yeh this guy
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/isle/images/0/09/Psittacosaurus_The_Isle.png/revision/latest?cb=20161026033904

[half girder]

i cant wait for cute lil proto

[sinful cove]

He was the second dino with burrowing in legacy

[barren oracle]

He should get venom and porcupine things

[barren oracle]

It had burrowing and I didn’t know!!?!?

[sinful cove]

He should use his quills and have advanced burrows

Yeah he burrows and is slow as fuck

[barren oracle]

Herbivore but venom

[half girder]

that thing is so ugly

[sinful cove]

His slowness is what would make advanced burrowing all the much more useful to him

[sinful cove]

No u

Taco best ceratopsian

[barren oracle]

I have been scammed by legacy. I knew none of this

[alpine plover]

Taco down bad fr

[barren oracle]

ITS A TRICERATOPS BOY!

[sinful cove]

Taco my beloved

[half girder]

they better make it cuter when it comes back

[sinful cove]

Yeah hes one of the isle's 7(i think) ceratopsians

Taco, proto, ava, diablo, styraco, pachyrhino, trike

[alpine plover]

Hmm

[half girder]

i dont get why so many people dont want proto in

[sinful cove]

Personally i would have preferred koreaceratops to proto but proto is cool as well

[alpine plover]

I'd remove Proto, Styraco, and Pachyrhino

Too much filler

[sinful cove]

Pchyrhino is a fracturer he can be good

[alpine plover]

Ehhh

[sinful cove]

Styraco can be an anti-pounce with that badass frill

Also his big ass horn can really punch up

Id say hes better than diablo tbh

[alpine plover]

I just disagree with sub class playables rather than playables in clear distinct niches

[half girder]

like bro

so fucking cute

I WANT IT

[sinful cove]

Yes he is beautiful

[alpine plover]

With the bloated roster, playables constantly rub elbows and struggle with niches rather than settling into them

[sinful cove]

That is true but styraco is hot asf and i want it

Semiaquatic koreaceratops woulda been cool but its fine

[frail flicker]

Well proto is essentially gonna be a coast ceratopsian, so I think it's neich is fairly secure

[alpine plover]

The issue with the roster is that only negative come for the niches, ecosystem engagement, and the playables themselves

You're far less likely to herd, packy up(especially with creatures that are encouraged to) since the options muddy this design

[sinful cove]

God i want him. I want him so bad

[alpine plover]

With the considered player pool in mind, it comes off as more of like a battle royale with animals playing hot potatoes with niches constantly

Balance also presents an issue

It'll be a tremendous task to balance around and have every playable viable/interesting and not become invalidated by other playables

The Stego/Acro/Giga interaction example is just to name one on the top of my head

[sinful cove]

Eh servers can easily just disable the trimmings they don’t want. I want my styraco with his big ass horn. I crave it

[alpine plover]

While that is true

[half girder]

ugly

[sinful cove]

[alpine plover]

Server filtering don't resolve this issue

[half girder]

built weird

[alpine plover]

Only remedy it

[half girder]

that front horn would one shot stuff

[alpine plover]

There's gonna be a few servers with all playables, or servers with playables that have specific interactions that leave some invalidated

[sinful cove]

Yes.

[alpine plover]

Which is why it's more intuitive long term to have a clear cut working roster as a baseline experience firstly

[sinful cove]

Pachyrhinosaurus my beloved

[half girder]

i dont know about that dino, is it faster than proto?

not the pachy the horny one

[sinful cove]

Its basically diablo but with a sword if you remember how fast diablo was

[half girder]

hmmm yes

[alpine plover]

Though this is assuming if the design of the game would seek perfection on these fronts
Which in terms of current design language isn't a priority

[sinful cove]

Id assume they have a general odea on the ecosystem they want to build before adding the fat to the roster, but then again this is the isle

[alpine plover]

Yeah

[sinful cove]

The isle where they threw deino and stego in to a small tier ecosystem and made the largest land predator the fastest animal on the game

[alpine plover]

Carno/Stego/Deino moment

[sinful cove]

But assuming they saved the ‘shared niche’ dinos for last i dont see much of an issue

Things like mono and styraco or diablo

[alpine plover]

So perfection or effective executions to achieve strong design isn't a priority

Since getting the game working is already the meat on their plate currently

I just dislike the idea shared niches of filler creatures

[sinful cove]

They have animals that would really play no interesting role like rauisuchus

Like wtf is raui gonna do lol

[alpine plover]

Yeah

Or Rugops

[sinful cove]

Honestly just replace raui with presto

Rugops could be interesting but i doubt theyd make it interesting

[alpine plover]

There's no roles for those creatures to play in the ecosystem

[sinful cove]

Like rugops and mono could be made interesting but the chances of that happening are small and theyll likely just feel like filler

[alpine plover]

Therefore, they're filler and adding them to the game would be a redundant attempt to only muddy the ecosystem

It's like adding wolves to Africa when there's already painted dogs

Then adding Tigers

Jaguars

Or Cougars

[sinful cove]

Just ends up being a worse or better version of a pre existing animal because they dont make it unique

[alpine plover]

The roles already filled, if it offers nothing new, then it has no real justification to add it

[sinful cove]

Like what is mono gonna do but be a utah without pounce

[alpine plover]

No idea, unless they hypo magy resolve that

[sinful cove]

Its not even as big as utah is it

[alpine plover]

I don't think so

[sinful cove]

Rugops will probably end up being juvie carno gameplay and velo will probably end up being juvie utah gameplay i have little hope in the isle's execution of them

[alpine plover]

Again, even with the baseline roster, the issue arises with your example with the velo/ juvie utah

Giga has no reason to exist since the top predator niche is already filled by Rex

Therefore has no justification within a role in the ecosystem

[sinful cove]

Theyre unique enough i think

[alpine plover]

That's not the point

The point is that the creatures addition offers no real clear cut role with it's addition
While a preexisting creature already satisfies that role

[sinful cove]

I mean my point was a lot of animals will probablt end up not being unique and just mirroring the different growth stages of others

Not really comparable to the rex/giga comment

[alpine plover]

They may play differently, but what they acheive in the sandbox is evidently the same
Big bad carnivore that trumps most combat encounters

Right right

[sinful cove]

If an animal has a unique set of skills that sets it apart from others in its tier and isnt just a bad version of another animal then i think its fine

[alpine plover]

Even if animals are unique or distinct enough, there still needs to be a role justification for their addition
Styraco might play differntly than Pachyrhino. But if one or both of them offer no added value to the ecosystem's roles. Then there's no real reason to add them as valuable members to the sandbox

Hell, I like both of them. But I'm arguing from a place of rational design implementation

[sinful cove]

I guess variety ends up being the only reason, and the fact that the devs said everything is likely coming aside from pue

It would be down to servers to trim animals to create the ecosystem they want

[alpine plover]

Which is a stopgap

But I'm still really iffy about that

[sinful cove]

Picking between diablo and styraco, same tier but different damage outputs, for the niche in their ecosystem

[grave veldt]

pue

[sinful cove]

RIP king

[alpine plover]

Some servers may favour certain playables with the matchups, or have playables invalidating other playables by nature of balance or existing.

[grave veldt]

replaced for brachi

pue was cool cuz it wasnt a huge popular dinosaur people knew about and it was larger

[sinful cove]

Brachi the pretender

[grave veldt]

it was also one of the 5 first ever dinosaurs added to the game

[sinful cove]

Pue was cool because he has like 2 neck bones in his entire discovered skeletal but the isle made him well known lol

[alpine plover]

It was fun fucking with admins as pue and nuking servers

[grave veldt]

this this

[sinful cove]

Pue was ez to kill on legacy but it was still a cool animal to see and hear

Pue and cama were free giga food

[grave veldt]

Pue being removed but troodon added even though it never existed

[sinful cove]

The isle

[grave veldt]

you won't survive it

[alpine plover]

surviving as juvie carni and farming ai in evrima

sure as hell surviving rn

[grave veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-survive-it-survived-the-isle-gif-23580246

[alpine plover]

ur gif was nuked for the longest time

[half girder]

idk what was with that pachy but it survived a full pounce and like 5 bites

think it was bleeding for like 5mins straight lol

yet when im pachy i get to 50 while sitting, this dude was running around n charging

[frosty heron]

Clearly skill issue

[half girder]

how tf my pounce not register

fucking tap charge pachys dude

[frosty heron]

It got negated by the Pachy headbutt , that happened to me couple times

[half girder]

look again, i was on his hitbox before he even did it

idk y my pounce took ten years to fully go out even wen im looking down

[frosty heron]

I looked at it couple times and while youre right, the pachy did a weird move to the left so I consider that as a desync

and also, checking at Stego position , bet you died there

Pachy + Stego combo just wrecks everything

[half girder]

yes. the fucking wall that shouldnt be in the game and is overtuned killed me

[alpine plover]

Wouldn't say Stego is "overtuned"

But I agree keeping it in game is dumb

[half girder]

it is, rn it could tank a rex with how its tuned rn

[frosty heron]

On my personal experience Stego is the only playable that if you manage it to grow to adult, its almost unkillable if you know how to play it , you will only die if you get killed by other Stegos or you get swarmed by Utahs in the plains which is kinda rare to happen

Is the playable which I have the better survavility ratio on fights, I always kill a Ton of people on my playthrought and then happily safelog to come another day and keep going

[half girder]

yep

[alpine plover]

without a doubt

[placid reef]

tf, the pachy did an alt but it was headbut

[barren oracle]

I passed out from not sleeping in 48h

[hot lintel]

@spring dagger if a Carno got a grace period after getting rammed where it doesn't get stunned anymore there would be literally nothing stopping it from just face tanking the rest of the herd to death. I like how you said a Carno can get stun locked IF all the Pachys time their attacks correctly, which is to say if all the Pachys play well and are coordinated, which makes perfect sense that they should get rewarded for getting the timing up so perfectly, but apparently rewarding good timing and strategy is unfair. Both Carnos and Utahs are faster than Pachys so the only way one is gonna get rammed by a Pachy is if they try to face tank it or they get ambushed, both situations being their fault, so why shouldn't they get severely punished for it? A good Carno or Utah will literally never get hit by a ram because it has barely any range and is extremely predictable. Not to mention leg fractures are next to nonexistent, so a lot of the times a Utah or a Carno can get rammed by a fully charged headbutt and start running like nothing happened. Also Pachy's alt attack would be complete useless garbage if it didn't stun people. It doesn't cause bleed, it doesn't do that much damage and it stops the Pachy in place for a second, so what you're saying is it should just be a light tap that a Utah can go and heal off in a minute, while a Utah can pounce a Pachy for like 5 seconds and bleed it out. Sounds like you're just upset that a herbivore is not just free food on legs and can actually punish people who play poorly.

[hollow canyon]

So what? The rest of the herd isn't meant to be fighting that Carno, they are supposed to just leave. You seem to be under the wrong impression that Pachys should attempt to bring down a predator 4 times their size for some reason. The way this match up is supposed to work is for Pachy to fracture Carno and then leave.

[placid reef]

pachys doesnt fight, pachy leg breaks and yeets the fuck out of there, this is what the devs said pachy should be doing

[hot lintel]

Yes, 5 Pachys should just run from a Carno that probably didn't even get fractured, great balance

Because that's why I play in a group of 5 people, so I can run away

[hollow canyon]

The way Dondi has put it - "If you were to fight a lion with a broken leg, you will still die to it, you can however just leave"

[barren oracle]

It’s more fun to WOMBO combo them

[hollow canyon]

Oh I mean if you're playing Pachys in a group to hunt other people then perhaps you've chosen the wrong animal?

[placid reef]

if you do not enjoy beeing the chased then dont play herbi?

well at least pachy

[hot lintel]

If the Carno is hunting us than why tf shouldn't we kill it if we have the numbers advantage?

Ah yes, herbivores never kill their attackers

[hollow canyon]

They don't typically kill their attackers when those attackers are 4 times their size, no.

[placid reef]

yes, cape buffalos kill the lions, bc they are significantly bigger thna them

[hollow canyon]

Unless you have some footage of an antelope taking on a fully grown male lion and killing it.

I do have a feeling that such footage doesn't exist though.

[placid reef]

or a deer killing a bear

[hot lintel]

I'm sure all of 10 people will play Pachy if it's made into a Dryo with leg break

[hollow canyon]

That's why Stego which is 3 times bigger than Carno can send it to an early grave with a single attack or two.

It's not meant to be a Dryo with a legbreak.

[hot lintel]

Sounds like extremely fun gameplay and not just Legacy Pachy with extras

[hollow canyon]

You can kill Utahs, those are animals in your size range.

[hot lintel]

And 3 Pachys make up the size of a Carno, what is your point?

[hollow canyon]

Carno is literally the largest terrestrial predator in the game in the foreseeable future, meanwhile you're playing an animal that is 4 times smaller.

[hollow canyon]

They don't for starters and even then: do you have some footage of three antelopes killing a lion?

[hot lintel]

And you can;t even do that, a ram to the side will not even leg break it which means it can just get up and run

Happens to me all the time

[hollow canyon]

That means you didn't hit the leg

Complain about the hitboxes or what have you

[hot lintel]

Who tf cares about antelops and lions? This is a video game

[hollow canyon]

Oh, so now we no longer hear about herbivores not killing their attackers?

[placid reef]

granted that more about the hitboxes and how they work not pachys fault

[hot lintel]

No one is gonna have fun on Pachy if the devs just came down and forced them to run away instead of killing something they earned

[hot lintel]

Oh great, the good old "just hit the leg bro it's your fault"

[placid reef]

yes, but one also grounded in realism

[hollow canyon]

That's exactly what it is though

[hot lintel]

You're fucking delusional

[hollow canyon]

I don't care for your opinion about my state of mind.

[hot lintel]

I've seen Utahs sniped right down the middle of their bodies where the legs are at and nothing happened

[hollow canyon]

Well then we have some issue with the hitboxes, report that, instead of arguing against a well deserved nerf.

[placid reef]

ye, bc im pretty sure that that counts as the body hitbox not leg, thats the hitboxes fault not pachys

[hollow canyon]

^

That's something you should report

[hot lintel]

"well deserved nerf"

[hollow canyon]

It's as simple as that.

[hot lintel]

Everyone has reported that issue

[hollow canyon]

That is exactly what it is

[hot lintel]

It's a well known fact at this point

[hollow canyon]

Have you reported it?

[hot lintel]

I've left feedback on it plenty of times yeah

[hollow canyon]

Have you made a report outlining this bug to the devs in Evrima bug report?

No, I'm not asking about feedback.

I'm asking about bug reports.

[hot lintel]

Ah yes

The good old "you didn't make a full 200 word essay as a report so your voice shouldn;t be heard"

Classic

[hollow canyon]

No, you don't get it

[hot lintel]

Bug reports are next to useless

[hollow canyon]

I will tell you how wrong you are about that

[hot lintel]

There are still bugs from update 3 times that exist to this day

Guess no one reported them?

[placid reef]

thats how the devs find out abot bugs they havent found or havent talked to people that had them

[hollow canyon]

During the Mechanic Test there was an error causing fatal error crashing the game in certain circumstances(e.g. applying CC). The entire discord was screeching about it for a week, it was everywhere from feedback(of every kind) to isle-discussion.

The lead programmer only found out about it after that week while he was speaking in Isle-discussion and someone brought it up

The devs said that nobody reported it via bug report and they were unaware of its existence until that point.

[placid reef]

granted the bug report channel was basically hidden under all the feedback channels so its understandable that people didnt report bugs

[hollow canyon]

Therefore no - the fact that "everybody knows it exists" doesn't mean anything.

[hot lintel]

Yes, so it's my problem that the devs themselves are deaf to what 200 or so people are saying all at once

[hollow canyon]

Unless you reported it via evrima bug report channel it might not exist at all as an issue in the eyes of the devs.