#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 303 of 1

keen plover
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Magy is in one of those situations where if you make its kit strong enough to repel an allo, a cera will probs get stomped out

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People were giving it the idea of being grapple resistant as well

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Also bleed resistant

dusky surge
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except we literally see cera grappling it in concept art so thats not gonna happen

keen plover
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Ok so there's that

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Also if magy was to have fractures, it will be in a limited capacity as it won't deal the same damage as a pachy (imo)

barren oracle
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If diets do their job magy should be fine

dusky surge
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behold, magy being grappled at the bottom left

Ceratosaurus_Concept.png
barren oracle
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Not like allo should be meeting it anyway

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Give it some good fracture and allo wouldn’t have reason to attack it

keen plover
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I mean if allo can use grapple on a magy, it's a pretty easy win considering size difference

barren oracle
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Depends how grapple works though

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And they shouldn’t see each other anyway

keen plover
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True, not sure what allos abilities would be for smaller prey item. Does it just use lmb?

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However magy is at the height where grapple can work

keen plover
placid reef
barren oracle
placid reef
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just stego beeing stego

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also my comment twas but a joke

barren oracle
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Art thou joke was fabulous

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Twas one of great comedic value to me

spare badger
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Magy is just sauropod pachy
Can't box with the big guys
But can break their legs and run into the woods

barren oracle
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Yeah but it can fight with the smol bois

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Actually yeah its just sauropod pachy...

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Still a W

wise sparrow
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It tastes bad therefore it is a completely viable animal TI_Troll

spare badger
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Yea
I imagine it will be able to stun smalls with a tail attack

spare badger
barren oracle
spare badger
wise sparrow
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Like I'm glad they even bothered to acknowledge smaller sauropods but they just cant work in a world where every apex predator ever is on the same island

barren oracle
barren oracle
wise sparrow
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Minmi needs everything in the world to be viable

spare badger
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A pygmy mammoth wouldn't work in a Pleistocene game
Same here
But making it taste bad, giving it armour and fractures can work

spare badger
barren oracle
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Make it taste bad to anything that doesnt have it in their diet* we dont want only cera to eat it

spare badger
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Quetz should
Cause that's what hatzegopteryx ate

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Magy

wise sparrow
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"Yay we established ourselves on an island with no predators we can vibe now!"

Sees a hatzegopteryx shadow fly by

placid reef
spare badger
placid reef
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look at utah, its not right TI_Troll

barren oracle
spare badger
sonic flame
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@abstract geyser for all stats but growth, 1/3 is neutral, compared to 3.5 anyway

tall bronze
sonic flame
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growth is also technically neutral, but people don't want to count it

abstract geyser
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i've heard a lot about growth times being fked, and when i say neutral i mean the growth time should probably be the default it was before the QA branch with that 1 nutrient. and you work up from there instead of having your stats halved based on what foods you have access to

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i actually haven't switched branches even once because of how much it changes gameplay right now

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i'm glad the normal stats aren't super affected; i didn't know that so i edited my post

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to be consistent the growth times should line up with it imo. and 0 nutrients is when you start being punished

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like 0 is punishment, 1 is normal, and 2 and 3 are added perks all around the board

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and 0 punishing your bite force is just weird. or the scent range thing i heard is affected too?

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not really great for those starving players

grave veldt
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and huge changes are highly unlikely

craggy apex
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full adult carnos get tail slammed by a teno and loses 40% health, he hit the tip of my tail

hollow canyon
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That doesn't sound right, a single tail can't do that much damage even if it's a headshot.

urban dome
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A single tail from a teno one shot me at adult utah

craggy apex
hollow canyon
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Adult Utah can absolutely be oneshot by a tailslam - a headshot kills you instantly. Bodyshot takes out 80% of your health.

hollow canyon
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And yea Tenonto simply deals too much damage right now, that's the reality of it but the regulars on this discord will be denying that with all their might for one reason or another.

spare badger
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Cause teno tail is big but shouldn't be that strong

Rp9R9vY_d.webp
hollow canyon
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360N

spare badger
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Hmmm
How many hits to kill carno then?

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5 exactly?
That seems about right for a carno
But at the same time too much to a Utah...

hollow canyon
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4 headshots take it out

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three leave it barely alive

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5 bodyshots won't kill it because it will have healed up a little bit of hp between the attacks so it will survive

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in general though you want to land headshots after you CC it(although this is somewhat problematic on the QA branch due to lag since Carno doesn't stop straight away but with a delay after getting hit).

spare badger
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I see
So nerfing it's slam damage a bit won't effect the carno matchup eh?

hollow canyon
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If you pull it off properly you can 100 to 0 a Carno in a single combo

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you see

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the thing is that it really depends on how you want this match up to work

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there are ways of nerfing it in a way that won't cause Carno to survive more headshots than it does now

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e.g. if it's nerfed down to 310N Carno will still die to 4 headshots

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you simply overkill it so hard with Tenonto right now that even if you nerf the damage output quite significantly it doesn't actually change the hits to kill

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it would require 6 bodyshots as well

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so technically you don't change hits to kill

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despite the fact that you nerf Tenonto

spare badger
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Well
That works out
If they nerfed it to that how would it effect Utah?

hollow canyon
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It would take out some 65-70^ of Utah's health with a bodyshot instead of 80%

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it would still kill it with a headshot

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which I don't think it should tbh

spare badger
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Imo it should
That looks like it would crush the Utah's skull

7d8zhmhw4m941.jpg
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How weak would it need to be to not oneshot its head?

hollow canyon
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299N or lower

spare badger
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Hmm

hollow canyon
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I'd personally rather buff Utah rather than nerf Tenonto that much tbh

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just buff Utah up to 490kg or 500 and buff Pachy to 510

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or something

spare badger
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Yea
That could work
And not be ridiculous since Utah irl can get up to 700 or so
And ours is slimmer
As long as they buff pachy enough so it isn't pinned

hollow canyon
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Irl Utah is more so around 500kg

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I've seen some estimates allegedly putting it at 660kg

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but they didn't have much evidence to back that up tbh

spare badger
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Max was 700 last time I checked
But that's a high estimate I think

hollow canyon
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the GDi of the animal puts it at 500kg I believe

spare badger
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That makes sense

hollow canyon
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700kg seems way too high for Utahraptor although i don't doubt that someone might've estimated it at that size

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There are people that estimate it at 270kg too

spare badger
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It still would be better to buff Utah and Pachy weight to match slightly nerfed teno slam DMG

hollow canyon
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and they are palaeontologists

spare badger
hollow canyon
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I don't think so

spare badger
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Isn't Utah now seen as being on the slower end?

hollow canyon
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this was a pretty new estimate

spare badger
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I see

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Interesting

hollow canyon
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the researchers even made the video about this, it was available on youtube

spare badger
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Either way 500kg Utah isn't out there
And would be a needed buff

hollow canyon
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most people generally agree that the animal weighed around half a tonne though

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Yes, I agree it wouldn't hurt to buff it up to 500kg

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I generally have a feeling that the balance-people don't actually do all the work with the numbers before they buff/nerf animals

spare badger
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Just like
Hmm make teno stronger they say?

And don't do the math and just buff it a lot

hollow canyon
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The nerfs to Tenontos tailslam and Carno's bite were just... weird and really not thought-through

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Nah, Tenonto just got reverted to its old value I believe

spare badger
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I see

hollow canyon
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my point is that

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they nerfed Tenonto - presumably for a reason

spare badger
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Buff Utah TI_Succ

hollow canyon
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but they nerfed it really, really hard

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to the point that you could tell it would just be a bad animal

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its damage went down to 250N

spare badger
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Like
Why did they do that? Teno was literally the most balanced animal back then

hollow canyon
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I can't say for sure why they did that and I don't have that much experience on 3.75 but

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every animal with exception of Tenonto(among the smaller ones, so excluding Deino and Stego) got its damage nerfed on 3.75

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Carno's bite went down from 350 to 200

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Utah's bite went down from 130 to 55

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Tenonto was left unchanged and the devs have probably decided to get it back in line with the rest of the roster

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this wasn't necessarily a bad idea and it might seem like they didn't even nerf it that hard(it lost only 30% of its damage compared to 40% on Carno and 60% on Utah iirc).

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the issue is that Tenonto uses stamina for its attacks

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so taking away its damage hurts it more than doing the same does to Utah or Carno

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so any nerfs like these have to be very carefully considered for such animals

spare badger
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I'm still of the opinion that all attacks should use at least a little stam

hollow canyon
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I believe that nerfing Tenonto's tailslam wasn't necessarily a bad idea but it shouldn't be nerfed so much that it significantly changes the number of attacks you need to kill something

spare badger
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Yes

hollow canyon
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as I said - nerfing it down to 310N doesn't really screw the animal over

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the attacks to kill a Carno stay they same

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well for the most part

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despite the fact that you don't chip away at your opponent's health that hard

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this is really something that should be sorted out by the QA but I guess they're too busy with other stuff

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in normal cirumstances they should just test different set ups for damage and hp for different creatures and test for all the match ups and how they feel and play out

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and then go with what they feel is the best option

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but I'm pretty sure this isn't something that the QA can afford to do

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with their rather low numbers and so on

spare badger
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Yea

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Utah really isn't a teno rival anymore

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It's more of a minor nuisance

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Besides that
Pachy needs a slight increase on stam usage for it's alt attack
So Utah's can actually have a go at it
Besides that the rest of the roster is ok
Havent seen too many complaints about carno rex

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The biggest shake up for balance will be when cera eventually makes it in

hollow canyon
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Carno's pretty bad imo but it's not "unviable" level of bad I think. The one thing that I'd buff about it is probably the standing/trotting/walking turn rate. The running should stay the way it is as that's supposed to be its weakness

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The main reason why Carno's not all that bad is because the size difference between it and most other animals makes up for its weaknesses but I wouldn't say it's a good animal atm

dusky surge
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personally, i'd buff the charge, it doesn't even do as much damage as a teno tailslam despite being a much tougher move to pull off

hollow canyon
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I kind of disagree there - I really disliked the fact that charge dealt all that much damage, it should be mainly a CC move imo

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I remember it oneshotting Utah and I was really not in favour of that

dusky surge
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hell, even fracture carno could arguably be brought back seeing as body fractures have gone from death sentence to survivable inconvenience that grants a greater advantage to the attacker

hollow canyon
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not a fan of that either, I don't think Carno should be a fracturing-animal

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it should just CC the small game the way it does now and then maul the prey item down while it's on the ground

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a bit of an issue with this is that Carno takes a while to actually come to a stop and get to the knocked down target when it hits the charge

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but I wouldn't necessarily tinker with that for now

dusky surge
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im on the fence of not agreeing with a turn radius buff for carno. I really like the animal's focus on running more than standing still to fight

hollow canyon
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I'll try to give a more concrete feedback on it when update goes live and I can test it

dusky surge
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hell, you could even argue for a charge buff in the form of lowering that insane stamdrain it has

hollow canyon
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Carno might be into running while fighting but at the same time it has a pathetic stamina pool

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it shouldn't be running all the time in a fight

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and if it's standing then it means it's playing defensively

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I see no reason to punish it while it's on the defensive

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besides it just feels really weird and unnatural how this animal turns atm

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while standing

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it feels like it's stuck in a tarpit

dusky surge
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thats the thing, i don't think carno is, or should be, a defensive animal. It's essentially the cheetah of the Isle, its designed for offence, and when it doesn't want to fight, it can simply run

hollow canyon
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I don't think any animal should turn this badly while not running

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except when it can't

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Carno has the lowest stamina pool in the game atm when you're fighting e.g. Utahs the last thing you want to do is run around really

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in general you don't want to be running much as a Carno atm

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the stamina pool will punish you for that heavily

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if you're up against a Tenonto you will literally die against a good one if you decide to expend too much stamina

dusky surge
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i'd personally give carno more stam and longer regen times. This way it can engage in long hunts and journeys, yet its primary point of weakness and vulnerability would be its resting time. A hungry allo, for example, cannot hope to catch an alert and energised carno, however, if the carno exhausts itself, the allo can go in for an attack and actually catch the slippery bastard.

Running is carno's primary offensive and defensive tool, so letting it run more and having its weakness be when it can't run is more interesting imho

hollow canyon
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in general it's just nonsense that any animal(maybe except Deinosuchus) should turn so badly while standing

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You'd basically turn it into the legacy Carno then

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I'd rather avoid it

dusky surge
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i honestly like legacy carno more, and this is the very rare time I ever say I like legacy more

hollow canyon
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I absolutely despise that animal in the legacy

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and I kind of just outright wish it got deleted because I consider it that bad of a playable

abstract geyser
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i like legacy carno a lot because turning like a bus fits the animal and its niche as a hit and runner, not close combat

hollow canyon
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not that it's "bad" in terms of being weak

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I hate it because it represents all the properties of an animal that I hate

abstract geyser
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you should run far away then come charging back instead of waiting to turn around when things are up in your face

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i mained it so i guess i'm just the total opposite of you TI_AlloPopcorn

dusky surge
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doesn't that simply mean you should avoid playing carno?

hollow canyon
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No, it's not just about playing it

dusky surge
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i mean, everyone has animals they flat out do not like

hollow canyon
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I hate what this animal stands for in the game

abstract geyser
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if carno turns sharply it makes me NOT want to play it

hollow canyon
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It's not just - I dislike playing Carnotaurus, I dislike this animal because it's at the same time way too easy to survive with

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and simultaneously really limited at what it can do

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it abuses animals really hard

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or is completely useless against them

alpine plover
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carno stamina

hollow canyon
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I hate this design with a passion

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I was hoping it would die with the legacy but unfortunately we ended up getting back to it

abstract geyser
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it sounds more like you just dont like the animal rather than there being anything wrong with it as a playable

dusky surge
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i can agree, however, carno is meant to have its speed be both its offence and defence, which is why adding defensive capabilities where carno can react to attackers on its flanks quickly in a brawler fashion makes it extremely oppressive, leading to the carnopocalypse of early QA

sinful cove
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carno players ruin the animal

hollow canyon
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No, it's definitely about the playable - as for Carnotaurus the animal - I'm kind of completely indifferent to it

alpine plover
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i think carno still has major powercreep, although the nerfs made it..what's the word

abstract geyser
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i mean you dont like it being in the game because the playstyle isnt your thing

hollow canyon
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early QA carnopocalypse was caused by the fact that all the other animals were just hotgarbage

alpine plover
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carno has always been boring , but now it's tiresome

hollow canyon
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Utah - nerfed to the ground, Tenonto - nerfed to the ground, Pachy - still in early works

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admittedly there was quite a lot of Pachys but then again they were actually capable of going at it with Carnos

sinful cove
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its the fastest land animal + the current land apex predator

dusky surge
sinful cove
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no wonder a bunch of low iq spam callers play it

hollow canyon
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Trust me - you'd have enough weight to your actions if you were up against players who had a brain in update 3.5

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I've killed more than enough Carnos at the time

alpine plover
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it doesn't really necessarily fear anything unless it decides to mess with a teno or gets ganged up by a bunch of pachys

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utah is out of the question, we don't speak of that thing

hollow canyon
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Well if you want to go with this legacy Carno thing then you should probably indeed nerf the animal's stamina regen and buff its stamina pool but I genuinely think that's a terrible direction to take this playable

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In general I've been heavily against that during the days of update 2 - making fast animal have a large stamina pool can be really oppressive, even if it regenerates it slowly

alpine plover
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they are wanting it to be a small tier bully that can demolish anything smaller than it, but sucks against fighting things almost as large, or larger than it

hollow canyon
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I believe that the smaller animals that Carno should be going after should try to avoid it in the plains simple as that

alpine plover
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teno can manageably take on a carno atm

hollow canyon
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that's a bit of an understatement

alpine plover
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but something feels missing from carno if you know what i mean

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i'm not sure what that exact thing is

hollow canyon
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Idk to me the issues with is that it needs a new running animation and it outright needs a faster turn rate while walking/trotting/standing

versed rune
hollow canyon
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even the legacy one didn't turn this awfully while walking/trotting

versed rune
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get rid of the dumbass alt bite and give it a headswing

hollow canyon
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^

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that too

alpine plover
hollow canyon
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but that's a bit of an afterthought imo

alpine plover
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why doesn't it have a headswing attack actually

hollow canyon
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I agree that a headswing would make more sense for this animal than the dumb altbite

versed rune
alpine plover
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turkeys off the menu

versed rune
alpine plover
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ah thats right

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cant have nice things

versed rune
alpine plover
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it doesn't even make a difference tbh

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200 was fine

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agreed with the turning nerf though

hollow canyon
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that damage nerf is one of the reasons why I said that whoever makes the balance decisions doesn't actually do the calcs for the match ups

versed rune
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i was against the turning nerf at first but honestly

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it feels fine now

hollow canyon
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this nerf literally does nothing

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I'm fine with the running turn nerf

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it's the walking/trotting one that I take an issue with

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this animal moves like it's stuck in a tarpit

versed rune
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wait they nerfed its walk/trot???

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tf lol

alpine plover
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what why

hollow canyon
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yeah duh

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that's what I'm complaining about

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try to turn in place

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and see how Carno struggles with moving around

jolly matrix
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And the trotting and walking deceleration is so terrible feeling

hollow canyon
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as if it was stuck in some goo

alpine plover
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let me try rn

versed rune
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honestly

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i barely noticed it

hollow canyon
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I've noticed it straight away

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Idk to me it's extremely visible I don't know how people are missing it

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and it's not just my impression, give me a sec

alpine plover
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yeah uh

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its slow

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too slow

versed rune
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honestly im most butthurt about the drift nerf

hollow canyon
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"Carno

  1. We'll be reducing the damage of it's primary bite (left click)
  2. We'll be reducing the damage of it's Alt attack
  3. It's group limit will be reduced to 3
  4. It's turn rates are decreased (plural because multiple movement states like walk/trot, etc)
  5. We've also increased it's inertia
    "
versed rune
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feels slow and ugly now

hollow canyon
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that's by Punch

alpine plover
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carno is very unenjoyable rn, then again most of the animals are

versed rune
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yea cuz they nerfed everything to make them all shitty together

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except stego

hollow canyon
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and tenonto

alpine plover
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curse stego

versed rune
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stego gets to reign supreme with several buffs for some reason

alpine plover
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big herbi therefore it must never die

hollow canyon
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these two are just the best animals atm

alpine plover
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teno is terrifying rn

versed rune
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honestly

alpine plover
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monster swamp horse beast that can end your carnos life in a matter of seconds

versed rune
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i think stun is a dumb mechanic

dusky surge
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i genuinely like new carno lmao, i really like the drifting, it feels fun to drift around sharp turns

versed rune
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or at least feels very broken

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it should either be knockdown or nothing, or a rework of stuns

alpine plover
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i'm a teno main and i even think it kills carno way too easily now

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although it certainly beats 2 damage teno that's for sure

versed rune
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id rather teno be too strong than too weak like it was a few builds ago

hollow canyon
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the balance between these two was generally ok in update 3.5

versed rune
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but then again that goes for all things

hollow canyon
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the devs had to just... "transfer" that state to the new stats

versed rune
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more fun when everything is OP rather than UP

hollow canyon
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idk what was so hard to do about that

versed rune
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all the balance issues can be traced back to weight=health

alpine plover
versed rune
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but people are ignorant of that

hollow canyon
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it could've been sorted out just fine with weigh=health but the balance folks decided to be creative

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and just changed how this match up worked altogether

alpine plover
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they had solid balance beforehand, was abruptly changed i guess

versed rune
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the funniest part is that weight=health literally guarantees that magy will be shit TI_Wheeze

alpine plover
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update 3.5 teno v carno was probably the most enjoyable matchup

hollow canyon
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it was

alpine plover
hollow canyon
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really it was the main reason why I played the game at the time

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just to fight Tenonto vs Carno and Carno vs Tenonto

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these two were my most played animals

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and I actively sought them to get to experience this fight because it was fun and enjoyable

alpine plover
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utah pounce also working would be kinda cool

hollow canyon
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now the game doesn't really have anything interesting to offer

alpine plover
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pachy is really fun to play, but it gets stale after a little while

hollow canyon
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aside from walking for hours to fill up the nutrients

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that's some quality gameplay right there

alpine plover
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if you can get past the painful growth, i guess it's alright

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game isn't really enjoyable

versed rune
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pachy's stats are perfect as far as update 3 goes

alpine plover
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could do something worth my time while growing in a bush

versed rune
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if you put it into update 3 it would fit right in

alpine plover
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remember pachy when it first released

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nightmare

hollow canyon
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btw just for perspective - if anyone's interested as to what exactly the Carno biteforce nerf has achieved

alpine plover
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it's 175 now right

hollow canyon
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it has caused the increase in terms of htk in the Carno vs Tenonto match up to go up by... 1

craggy trench
hollow canyon
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it literally just added one more bite in this match up

craggy trench
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I think game is fun rn

hollow canyon
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I've afked all the way through after walking

alpine plover
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this game has always been bush sim and will be for a long time

craggy trench
hollow canyon
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The way it works is as follows: if you're a carnivore you walk a little bit and then afk, if you're a herbivore then you walk quite a bit and then afk

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it's the walking part that I take an issue with because it's a snoozefest

alpine plover
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does getting perfect diet even increase your growth? I've heard it only puts your growth to normal speed

hollow canyon
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"vulnerable spot"

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please

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it makes the game a boring chore, it's not like I died while walking

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during that whole time I felt like I was in danger... around 0 times

craggy trench
alpine plover
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diet system is bad

hollow canyon
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I've done that as Tenonto too

alpine plover
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just sit at swamp

hollow canyon
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ended up killing it around 40% by drowning

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didn't encounter a single player

craggy trench
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wow

hollow canyon
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and just quit the game after getting the nutrients

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walking around was a chore

alpine plover
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diets do not encourage player interaction which sucks

hollow canyon
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and I realised I was having more fun afking in a bush than stumbling around the map

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like literally - the gameplay during the growth is atrocious

alpine plover
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pressing w while pressing q every 2 minutes

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fun

hollow canyon
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the only good thing that justifies this garbage is the fact that I can do other stuff while I'm growing

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this update has caused me to have to pay more attention before I get to afk

craggy trench
craggy trench
alpine plover
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what

craggy trench
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you walk around, eat, chill

hollow canyon
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no, I don't want to "chill"

alpine plover
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that is not how the game should be played

hollow canyon
#

if the game lets me chill it's failing at entertainment

craggy trench
#

get into a fight now and then

hollow canyon
#

why?

alpine plover
#

i want to survive a harsh island filled with dinosaurs, not chill

hollow canyon
#

that's a terrible idea if the dinosaur isn't fully grown

alpine plover
#

i hate how this game is a death battle royale sim

#

instead of a survival game

hollow canyon
#

I only get into fights when my dinosaur is fully grown

alpine plover
#

or a role play path of titans esc simulator where everyone sits at pond

hollow canyon
#

prior to that it's completely counterproductive to do that

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

"harsh island"

#

this game atm is about as far from the word "harsh" as it gets

craggy trench
#

omg

jolly matrix
#

This game is stupidly easy currently

hollow canyon
#

the only time this was even remotely close to that was in early update 2

#

when you were starving in a blink of an eye

alpine plover
#

you eat something and then sit in a bush

hollow canyon
#

and had to go out or your way to kill everything on sight from the moment you'd spawned

alpine plover
#

update 2 was chaotic

#

but i enjoyed it overall

hollow canyon
#

atm it's just - find the w/e dumb AI and kill it

#

or whatever plant you're after

alpine plover
#

i think most of it has to do with the layout of the map, plus everything is plastered at center

jolly matrix
#

yeah this map is terrible for gameplay

alpine plover
#

they want map exploration, however theres no food

hollow canyon
#

Maybe? I honestly wasn't even growing in the center

jolly matrix
#

It looks good but is just boring to play

hollow canyon
#

Last Tenonto and Carno that I grew were both in the southeast

alpine plover
#

thats pretty much the go to spot with teno anyhow, although its boring

hollow canyon
#

I like the fact that Punch said they intend on making juvie gameplay more interesting

#

I love that

#

but... how about doing that first

alpine plover
#

rn they are adults but slower and weaker

hollow canyon
#

before doubling the growths of all the animals

#

and adding this dull chore of a diet mechanic

alpine plover
#

now they are planning to make dinosaurs take even longer to grow

#

they'll probably make carno take like 3 hours

craggy trench
versed rune
alpine plover
#

they can have certain attributes for them to escape

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

or just make them play differently at younger stages

hollow canyon
#

There's this thing called "ontogenetic partitioning" among certain dinosaurs

craggy trench
#

Oh you mean speedwise

alpine plover
#

irl, juvenile tyrannosaurs were sleek, slender and fast, adult is very much different

hollow canyon
#

this means that different growth stages actually occupy different niches in their environment

#

we know that this was a thing for Tyrannosaurus rex

craggy trench
#

yeah got it

#

rn being juvenile has only stealth advantage regarding its size

hollow canyon
#

yea in general each animal doesn't have to play the same way as its adult counterpart

#

yea

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

true

#

that's one of the issues with it

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

i don't think anybody asked for longer growth

#

unless i'm unaware of it

hollow canyon
#

this community definitely has enough masochists that someone said that it would be cool if all the dinosaurs grew longer but

dusky surge
#

i wouldn't be too upset with longer growth if it came with new unique takes on juvis and juvi playstyle TI_HypsiShrug

alpine plover
#

if juvie stages were interesting yes

dusky surge
#

but if juvi remains the same then no

hollow canyon
#

first - let's get those unique takes and actually interesting juvenile gameplay before we even approach the idea of longer growths please

#

then if the juvenile gameplay actually ends up being good then we can talk about increasing the growth times

#

I have to say however - I don't think it's quite achievable for certain animals

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

as Ozgurdeniz pointed out - some animals are actually just kind of... worse copies of their adult counterparts

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

specifically the slow, lumbering herbivores that rely on being big and powerful would kind of have a tough time being good in their juvenile stages

#

I mean there are limits to how fast you can make a juvie stego or trike run

dusky surge
#

some animals really can't get these unique juvi niches. Take stego for instance. Stego literally cannot do jackshit because it quite literally is such a simple animal that little stego will never truly be much different from big stego

hollow canyon
#

yea

#

what I'd suggest for Stego is

alpine plover
#

how would you even make juvie stego different

hollow canyon
#

make its growth scale non-linearly

sonic flame
#

Well you could do something like biped Juvi run at least

hollow canyon
#

have it so that its growth is fast by default during the hatch/juvie stage

#

and then have it slow down during the subadult and adult stages

sonic flame
hollow canyon
#

it should really go for all the apexes imo

alpine plover
#

slow sub stage good

hollow canyon
#

so let's say that you want to play a Rex or Alberto

#

you can have a fully grown Alberto in let's say 4 hours

#

you can have an Alberto-sized Rex in 5 hours

dusky surge
#

a carno could grab some higher agility and less drift at younger ages, utah can do some tree climbing, deino can start off as more of a piscivore than the adult versions of itself, so on

hollow canyon
#

but then it will take it further however many hours before it can get to its colossal size

alpine plover
#

iirc they confirmed utah climb right

#

for all stages

sonic flame
#

Atm Juvi animals as a whole share far too many stats with the adults imo

alpine plover
#

or just adult

hollow canyon
#

Btw all the juvie theropods could actually be allowed to jump

#

technically just about every theropod could probably jump prior to reaching ~1t

sonic flame
#

I’d like faster stam regen across the board for Juvi, but I’m sure the time to improve Juvi animals gameplay will come

hollow canyon
#

or well most of them

#

nevertheless - make the juvie gameplay actually fun first then think about extending the growth times

#

the reason why people afk with juveniles is because they are trash

#

and offer garbage gameplay

#

it's not that everyone wants to afk

alpine plover
#

slow adults

hollow canyon
#

I'd be perfectly fine with playing the game all the way through

#

I'd prefer that

#

but as it is I'd rather do something else while my animal is growing

vagrant mural
#

Fun juvis>>>> dumbass balance changes that are lame and make shit worse

hollow canyon
#

rather than waste time in the game on something boring

alpine plover
#

the balance decisions are certainly questionable

#

and what is currently being planned of

craggy trench
#

I need to go but before that I need to share one last opinion of mine. All the things you say about the game needs to be more enjoyable is very VERY understandable. Its just that when I first played the Isle (I started playing evrima, never played legacy) I fell in love with this game's immersion to its nature and environment AND about the dinosaur gameplay. I actually like that the map is big just the right amount that you dont have that much encounters with other dinosaurs if you are not in an especially popular area. I actually like that it takes so long to grow a deino or a stego (or anything actually)that the reward at the end feels so good. But this is valid at times I didnt AFK, I AFK so rarely because it also takes away that rewarding feeling when youre big enough. I didnt earn it. I didnt take risks, been through some dangerous things and ended up there, I just straight up put my ass on grass and idled. Thats why even if its "boring" --- the game isnt that boring for me, gets a little boring sometimes tho--- I afk soo little. The game isnt that boring to me because I actually like the slow paced gameplay. It feels so realistic to me and the vulnerability of juvie stages actually seem valid enough to me because IRL the food chain and general "unfairness" of nature doesnt let much of the juveniles survive, survivability of baby-juvenile animals is so low in environments where survival competition is present. Thats why I actually kinda like this stage of the game but has very huge missteps and missing features and bugs, what I am saying is beyond all that.

hollow canyon
#

It might be a bit late since you have to go but

#

Your point of view might change quite drastically with time

#

You might be right about that for the first 100 or 200 hours in the game

#

I'd have to ask you whether you still feel the same way about it when you reach 600 hours though.

#

Also - I think you might be under the wrong impression about dinosaurs. They were likely far more capable during their younger stages than mammals are.

#

Young lions or bears need their parents to look out for them for a rather long time. Meanwhile tyrannosaurs fraction the size of an adult individual were actually accomplished hunters in their own right.

#

Mesozoic was in a way the era in which the smaller/younger animals were preyed on by those that were bigger(even if they were of the same species) but those very same smaller animals were very often quite capable of surviving on their own based on our current knowledge.

#

This doesn't go just for Tyrannosaurs, we have evidence of young Deinonychus preying on different animals than their adults.

#

This heavily indicates that they weren't being taken care of by their parents and hunted on their own.

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

I see, well fair enough

#

I guess what I'm saying is that

#

if you know the optimal way of how to survive, which largely comes with experience in this game, you just kind of know what to do and what not to do

#

and it sort of changes how you look at it if you've done the same thing a dozen of times

#

I've grown most animals actively and afk more than once

craggy trench
#

the game has very addicting attributes but as I play for the addicting side of it instead of playing it for the sake of playing it, the less joy and fun I have from the game

hollow canyon
#

I mean - I love dinosaurs and I always have

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

the game is kind of a dream come true for me

craggy trench
#

kinda looses its fluidity and mystery u say

hollow canyon
#

and I've played it since... 2018?

#

Every game does

#

that's unavoidable

#

but the issue here is that The Isle sort of promotes certain things with its design

#

and I think it could just be done better

#

I think the devs go the wrong way about sorting out certain problems with the game

craggy trench
#

true, true

hollow canyon
#

I believe it's possible to make it a fun and enjoyable experience that rewards the player for actively participating in the game

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

rather than by punishing them for playing it differently

#

which is what it currently does

#

There are people that have played it much longer than me

#

I know that a lot of them have quit it with time because of how it developed

#

for some perspective - intially growth wasn't a thing in this game

#

at first there was just sandbox mode and later on the "progression" game mode

#

progression was already on the way out when I started to play the game

#

but I think it's the game mode that is potentially much better than survival which we have now

craggy trench
#

Rewarding players are slippery slope for developers. as I imagine very corrupted arcade-like reward systems which currently nearly all game has, as all the games are sort of in a competition of which can stimulate our senses more and which can give us dopamine more.I am actually OK with getting punished if Isle isnt in danger of becoming even a little arcade

hollow canyon
#

When i say "reward" I mean more so that if you do the right thing you get to be rewarded with e.g. a shorter growth time

#

the devs however went a different way and decided to first double the growth times of all the animals

#

and then made it so that you reach the old growth time by following the diet

#

e.g. update 3 Stegosaurus took 300 minutes to grow to full adult

craggy trench
#

Yeah I got it, its just so hard to implement that sort of reward system without it being too overpowered or sticking out, getting in the way of things, breaking balance

hollow canyon
#

now it takes 20 hours with 0 nutrients, 10 hours with 1 nutrient, 7h40m with 2 nutrients and 5h with 3 nutrients

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

this effectively extends the growth times

craggy trench
#

heard about that

hollow canyon
#

even if you play it perfectly you will still technically grow longer than in update 3

#

and due to how growth and survival work - your animal is technically subpar until you reach 100% growth and therefore most people feel punished unjustly by the new mechanic

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

Yea... 20 hours

dusky surge
#

its actually less than 5 hours with 3 nutrients tbf

hollow canyon
#

Yesn't

#

It should be less

#

due to 120% buff

#

however someone actually made calculations for it and it turned out that Deinosuchus(not sure about Stego) took 5 hours to grow

#

I've reported that to Hypernova

#

not sure what the QA investigation has shown though

#

maybe it's less than 5 hours but maybe it's actually still bugged and still takes 5 hours with 3 nutrients

#

I do also know that Utah took ~75 minutes with a perfect diet

#

which also should be shorter

#

so there might be some bug with perfect diets

craggy trench
hollow canyon
#

If you want you can ask Hypernova whether I'm correct about this or not

#

I've played Deino during the QA too, I've played it actively the first couple of times(it was actually surprisingly good at active growth, I created a large pile of bodies before I even hit full adult) but then later on I decided that it's more efficient to grow it afk

#

because that just decreased the risk of bumping into a larger deino that could cannibalise me

craggy trench
#

yeah I just not straight up AFK but go to a safer river system which we call pilgrimage which starts from north of center river and eventually goes back at the center

sonic flame
#

However 2 things can influence growth time

craggy trench
sonic flame
#

1 amount of time to reach max diet buff

#

2 server lag

hollow canyon
#

Server lag?

sonic flame
#

Since if the server is lagging, you may get your growth tick a little later

#

This adds up over the course of dozens of ticks

hollow canyon
#

I get the first one but I'm not sure if it should bump Utah's growth up to 75 minutes

#

then again - I have to specify: I wasn't the one making the calculations and experiencing it in either of th ecases

sonic flame
#

That being said, the difference was only about 1-2 minutes for an animal like Stego

hollow canyon
#

So if you're saying that it's correct then I'm going to take your word for it

sonic flame
#

So I basically have to chalk it up to either awful lag on their end, or they mistimed it

#

Especially since growth cannot be calculated like in legacy

#

As unlike legacy, you don’t get 1 tick per minute

#

Both tickrate, and amount per tick are dynamic

hollow canyon
#

Yea it's the same tick for every animal the species only changes how often the ticks occur

sonic flame
#

The amount per tick is also influenced by diet from what I found iirc

hollow canyon
#

yea it is

#

but it's the same for each species from what I recall

#

as in - you get the same %age for the perfect diet no matter whether you're a Stego/Pachy/Deino or whatever else

sonic flame
#

When I timed it I think there was a 0.001% variance or something slight like that

hollow canyon
#

it's just that you get it more often if you're the faster growing animal

#

I haven't noticed any differences for any animal that I was checking but I've done the tests in the early stages of the mechanic test

sonic flame
#

But yeah, growth is a lot harder to calculate now

hollow canyon
#

it is but it's not impossible

sonic flame
#

And do keep in mind, the 4 hr 30 ish min time for Stego and Deino is assuming you spawn with max growth rate

hollow canyon
#

either way I'm not sure - are the growth times something that the devs want to keep hidden?

sonic flame
#

I’d have to ask Hypno

hollow canyon
#

Yea, I know I'm always stating that the perfect growth rate is for the animal with the perfect diet all the way throughout their growth

sonic flame
#

Tho they were public knowledge before so I assume it’s fine

hollow canyon
#

Hypno was available in the Isle-discussion not long ago btw

#

not sure if he was answering questions though

sonic flame
#

Yeah, I’m just not too eager to bug him atm

hollow canyon
#

sure thing

#

I do hope the devs don't decide to hide the growth times though

sonic flame
#

I’ll see about tomorrow, I know he said no to sharing my internal spreadsheet of growth times and rates

hollow canyon
#

that would be very questionable

sonic flame
#

But I assume sharing the base growth times could be fine if I asked

#

Then you can calculate the rest as needed

hollow canyon
#

dw - people will probably calculate that stuff either way, that is if they can be bothered

#

I know I intended to do it when the update came out

sonic flame
#

For the most part, doubling update 3’s growth times works

hollow canyon
#

but Idk if I can actually be bothered now that my excitement for the game kind of died out after the mechanic test

sonic flame
#

Tho Pachy, Utah, Teno and I think a few others have been adjusted more beyond that

hollow canyon
#

yea that's what I found out while calculating this stuff during the MT

#

Teno was different

#

Utah I'm not sure I haven't tested it in depth

sonic flame
#

Eh, patch notes will clear it up when the update drops

hollow canyon
#

Hopefully

sonic flame
#

For now, I’m off to bed

#

I’ll see what growth related info can be shared later

alpine plover
#

Inflating the growth times was a mistake

scarlet onyx
#

anyone else hearing the slow tick tocks from the dev's desk clock get louder and louder as we get closer to the new years lol

alpine plover
#

Biggest issue was that growth was a queue before we got to actually play the game

#

Adding in fetch questing in the mix to justify the inflation wasn't too riveting

#

Might as well write this prompt up

hollow canyon
#

This is honestly a great way of putting it: "a queue before we got to actually play the game" and "a fetch quest in the mix to justify the inflation"

dusky surge
#

i honestly found adult to become boring quicker than growth tbh. The feeling of slowly becoming stronger is much greater than the constant deathmatch that is adult. Growing, or helping others grow, is some of the most rewarding I've found this game

spare badger
#

We need a gameplay loop :(
Perks and elders are kinda needed to make it feel like a proper survival game instead of a deathmatch game

scarlet onyx
#

welp, boys, LETS GEET IT

ocean wagon
#

All of these nerfs to Utah……why play it when carno seems to be the better creature objectively

dusky surge
#

utah is not bad by any mean atm, its actually decent tbh

slim dragon
#

Every creature gets nerfed
People : Why nerf utah !!?

dusky surge
# ocean wagon All of these nerfs to Utah……why play it when carno seems to be the better creatu...

listing off every positive utah got this patch

  • pounce actually WORKS
  • starves slower
  • regens stamina faster on the move
  • alt-bite is not as restrictive on movement and you can sprint immediately after doing it
  • stam recovery is cancelled while pounced (this is pretty fucking good)
  • pounce recovery animation is faster
  • pounce missing is less stam costly
  • pounce no longer put into knockdown by shallow water wading
  • pounce no longer put into knockdown by hitting objects like trees and rocks
  • pretty much every blood pool has been nerfed across the board
  • wallowing is MUCH harder now due to wallow spots, meaning bleed cannot be fixed as effectively (a huge deal for bleeders like utah)
#

utah may not seem like it got buffed, but you have no idea how good this wallow change is for it

#

there are buffs littered all over the patch notes

placid reef
#

curious, did anything change about packy from QA?

barren oracle
placid reef
#

the only nerfs utah got could barely be called nerfs since either they are miniscule or countered by another buff

spare badger
#

They nerfed teno slam? Now how much does it do?

placid reef
spare badger
#

Those are the old nerfs tho

barren oracle
#

Old nerfs are deserved

spare badger
#

They nerfed the entire cast
So that's fine
If pounce works Utah will work
Also it has better stam Regen? Nice

placid reef
#

utah barely changes since qa or at all

#

only got fixed

barren oracle
#

so so well

spare badger
#

Nice

placid reef
#

are diet plants still shit?

spare badger
#

Wdym

placid reef
#

like is if its still just center

spare badger
#

Ah
Probably let's be honest

#

Imo get rid of centre lake

#

I think they should reduce the drain to make it almost time a migration
For example teno should be layed out like this
Diets drain slowly but are spread farther apart

ymwtwu1ftvz61__01.png
#

Excuse my terrible art skills I'm using my phone

placid reef
#

imo diets shouldnt be set in one and be all spot

spare badger
#

Teno is supposed to be a plains/swamp/river
So it's diet would be spread out like this
Obviously it should be more intricate than that

spare badger
placid reef
#

Hold on, i wrote in a comment how imo they should be, gottas find it

#

Firstly the food spawns would be semi-random, not totaly rng but nor designated a one and be all spot on the map, so jungle food will spawn only in jungles but randomly for ex, this could be attuned via making that there will always be a minimum set number of food in each biome if needed. This would bring more dynamic to herbis gameplay loop and a less sedentary style making them be on the move more, enforcing migrations with bigger herds.

spare badger
#

Maybe like this
With more than one pathway

ymwtwu1ftvz61__01__01.png
#

We need a reason to explore the map

#

Wherever herbivores go carnivores will follow

#

All plains should have radish
All swamps should have ash
All rivers should have potatoes
Just spread far and few between

#

Just something

placid reef
spare badger
#

Yea

#

Rng would be perfectly fine for diets as long as there's a set amount of plants in the biome

placid reef
#

well not RNG, semi/pseudo-RNG where ther are still limitations to how "random" it is

spare badger
#

Exactly

placid reef
#

like how i said in the growth segment from my too long to read lazy comment, if its to hars it could easily be so thqat there is a set minimum to spawn in the biome, tho for this to work best there would be need for some sort of region segmentations where a jungle is to large you segment it so if only 2 spanw they arent at the total polar edges

alpine plover
#

so question we got another a creature or two is now outclassed or just mediocre after the update situation going on or things seem to be relatively on par with each other

placid reef
#

?

alpine plover
placid reef
#

well other than the obvious hypsi and dryo, no

#

so all the finished creatures are good more or less

barren oracle
#

Balanced

unknown.png
abstract geyser
#

i posted in the wrong place whoops

barren oracle
#

lul

abstract geyser
#

i'll redo my response some time later; i'm actually heading out omf

barren oracle
grave veldt
hot hatch
#

@waxen ivy No offense, but those must’ve been some small Deinos, or they weren’t that great at the game. My boyfriend and I 2v1’d a Stego and won. I tanked a few bites, ran, then he finished it off.

sinful cove
#

some deino players are just that bad

#

i still run in to deinos who dont know how to lunge or alt bite

#

wouldnt be surprised if they wasted all their stam running in to the middle of a field and then got their spines perforated by the stegos

dusky surge
#

true lmao

#

altbite goes crazy

alpine plover
#

Anyone else feel this way?

#

The controls and movement feel gross

#

It's like..

#

Combat gets more and more worse

barren oracle
#

It’s great wdym

grave veldt
#

Combat has been honestly quite good for me

thorn pecan
#

@onyx trellis do you want to explain how a pteranodon is going to take off out of the water? While it is almost completely submerged? that's like a human running while almost completely submerged, I don't know if you've ever swam before, or tried going as fast as you can in a pool but the fastest swimmers swim at about 7 kp/h
and the fastest runners can go about or over 35 kp/h. I want to know how a pterosaur can generate enough lift to fly while trying to swim? and if you ever looked at a duck you'd noticed their wings are folded over their backs while they swim to prevent them from getting wet, because water adds on a lot of weight. Even for an average adult male if you were to go into water your weight would increase by 3%, now for the pterosaurs in the game about half the size of that also with their wings which have a massive surface area for water to hang onto, their weight would increase drastically. So do you think with all that happening a pteranodon is going to take off out of the water?

sonic flame
#

Oceanic pterosaur moment

thorn pecan
sonic flame
thorn pecan
#

I guess it could work but it still would be unbalanced unless it took a lot of stamina to water launch

spare badger
#

They are fishers
Ofc they would be able to

sinful cove
#

I guess the ‘unbalanced’ part is it makes ptera even more invulnerable

thorn pecan
#

pteras can glide for a very long time especially when adult which it takes half an hour to reach

thorn pecan
spare badger
#

Yea so it'll take more stam it still makes sense

thorn pecan
#

you still have to break water tension and the smaller you are the worse water tension is

spare badger
#

That's true

sonic flame
thorn pecan
sinful cove
#

unless they give ptera diving fishing in the future theres really no reason to let it take off from water

sonic flame
#

Like Miragaia said, it doesn't make sense for the current "water is my weakness" Pteranodon that skims, but if we got diving, then it would make sense

#

The animal is physically capable of such a thing, but letting it do so is a separate matter entirely

sinful cove
#

personally as a ptera i love seeing other pteras ail at fishing, falling in to the water and getting snatched by a deino. i dont want to lose this entertainment

thorn pecan
#

I also agree

sinful cove
#

a few times ive also knocked other pteras in to the river to watch them die, it is great

thorn pecan
#

that's a little far

sinful cove
#

gotta eliminate the competition ya know

thorn pecan
#

I guess

#

I only kill the hatchlings

#

hatchlings are like little road snacks

sinful cove
#

if another ptera keeps following me theyre gonna get bonked. lots of ptera players just see another ptera and tail them like some annoying parasite, i gotta teach them a lesson

thorn pecan
#

I like having a buddy but when there's too many and you can barely feed yourself it's time for one or two to go

#

as a deino especially

sinful cove
#

also when that buddy spam calls it gets tempting to silence them forever

thorn pecan
#

yes

#

I do not stand for spam calls

#

they deserve death

sinful cove
#

idk how people just fly around spamcalling how do they not annoy themselves doing that

thorn pecan
#

they came from legacy and were the people spam calling as dryos

sinful cove
#

i only call when im trynna find somebody but other pteras are just AREEEEE EEEEAAAAKAWEAWR right in my face

thorn pecan
#

I only spam call when I'm near deinos so people know that they are there

#

I am a very nice ptera

sinful cove
#

poor deinos lol

onyx trellis
# sonic flame The animal is physically capable of such a thing, but letting it do so is a sepa...

Thanks Hyper you explained exactly what i meant. No question ptera irl would be able to do it, and it is about game balancing whether it should be possible. Ptera is (imo) the most PvE styled dino and i dont see how it would be op since literally anything in game can easily kill a crashing ptera on water or ground.
I would love to see diving mechanic with higher risk to reward ratio 😁

sullen owl
#

@alpine plover
I don't know if this is just me or not but

I don't play Utah to be 'challenged and overcome greater odds' since I'm not playing dark souls, I'm playing them as they need more thought into actions and are an endurance fighter. A fuck up shouldn't cause me to die per-say though I'd probably hit the point of break off the hunt faster, this then being during a long hunt of stalking and hunting as I harass prey to die.

My general loop of combat for Utah is

  1. Find Prey
  2. Stalk to appropriate hunting site/decide when and if to attack them
  3. Run in, pounce for as long as possible
  4. Either run away, hide and stalk again or circle around trying to keep them moving
  5. Repeat step 3 & 4 until they die or break it off if too dangerous)
alpine plover
#

Because that's the main reason I'm drawn towards this certain playable, it hits a unique experience for me.

#

Over course it's mainly based around pack hunting and endurance, which I agree

#

But recent changes have nulled out the challenge aspect, and have pushed it too far to be reliant on special abilities imo

#

Rather than using all of it's abilities as a tool kit
Which imo is what offensive based creatures should do

sullen owl
# alpine plover Rather than using all of it's abilities as a tool kit Which imo is what offensi...

I mean, I can agree that offensive creatures should use all of their abilities and honestly, I think the Utah can do that pretty well. It's just a matter of learning 'how much' bleed is applied by pouncing and when it is enough that someone will bleed out.

Imagining I knew all the stats more-or-less perfectly, when I can be certain that I have enough bleed applied to the prey to bleed it out, I'd switch over to bites in an effort to keep the wounds open and harass the creature without using a lot of stamina.

Thinking on it, by reducing the damage raptor bites do it also makes you rely more on the bleeding aspect which pounce dominates purely through (in 1 on 1) safety and amount applied.

I haven't done testing but perhaps upping bleed applied values from biting/alt-biting could be a way to make those tools more utilized.

Of-course this is assuming mud-pools/wallow locations will increase in presence

barren oracle
#

Damn this sounds real nerdy

barren oracle
frosty heron
#

Cant believe people is already asking to nerf pounce after Utah being completely useless for the entire QA Branch, Islecord I guess...

barren oracle
frosty heron
barren oracle
alpine plover
#

I want it to be strong for different reasons

frosty heron
barren oracle
#

Everyone loves Utah now

frosty heron
#

Also its a bit of hypocrisy that people doesnt want 1 or 2 pounces to be fatal, when a Pachy breaks your leg and youre good as dead as Utah

barren oracle
#

No one complains about our boy itself

#

Other than the jp part

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

Yeah I dont either but people already looking for nerfs pisses me off a bit

alpine plover
#

Utah is an offensive based creature
Pachy is a defensive based creature

#

The headbutt and fracture is a deterrent because it cannot control the engagement, it can only respond to it.

frosty heron
alpine plover
#

How the success is applied is what's important
The method for it's success

#

I believe the method should be different than what it is now

frosty heron
#

Missing a pounce still could be a potential death , for me thats enought

#

And considering Pachy is small target , that would likely happen a lot in that matchup

alpine plover
#

I don't disagree

#

But the point is that considering Utah is an offensive based animal
It should have encouraged uses in it's tool kit other than being special ability dependent like a defensive creature

frosty heron
alpine plover
frosty heron
#

And thats kinda the point of the game right now, Carno also needs to charge to success on the hunt

barren oracle
#

Utah’s fine wdym

frosty heron
#

Except for Pachy matchup

barren oracle
#

It’s about as hard as it should be

alpine plover
#

Not in terms of how previously engaging it was though

barren oracle
#

Nah it’s super fun

#

I played one for like 3h straight

sullen owl
#

@proud swan Effectively what I mean, wallow spots shouldn't be immune from bleeding locations. They should come with their own risks and advantages and should be located in locations where no specific party benefits from it

alpine plover
#

Then you like Utah rn, which is good for you personally

proud swan
#

@sullen owlexactly, im with you

barren oracle
#

Everyone’s with you

proud swan
#

I was surprised at the lack of wallowing spots in update 4

alpine plover
#

Looking at it's mechanics, it's far less dynamic and relying only on one ability makes it less engaging/discouraging abilities in tandem together.
Pounce is so good rn, you don't need to bother biting to open the wounds, regen buffs makes pounce easier to reuse over

barren oracle
alpine plover
barren oracle
#

No one else does so it’s fine

frosty heron
#

Going in for bites to keep the bleed its adding a bigger risk factor than Utah already has with pounce, I dont understand why people wants Utah to be a Dark Souls dinosaur

proud swan
#

I have a training server ive done extensive researcha nd testing in how bleed works, i understand it fully, but bleed is the only thing utah has going for it, it cannot kill anything with bites since its biteforce is so week, so bleed is its only option, but in order to do that you need to pounce, if you miss you get killed in recovery frames. if you land it you have no stam to get away safely, no other playable has to risk so much just to make damage

barren oracle
proud swan
#

the utah has been shit on for the whole history of its existance in evrma, and mostly because of cry baby casuals in the community got it nerfed into oblivion

alpine plover
#

True

frosty heron
barren oracle
#

Nah Utah being weaker was a good thing

#

It was too strong in update 2

#

Fine now and in update 3

alpine plover
#

I'd like to see a return to update 3

barren oracle
#

I wouldn’t

#

It sucked after a bit

#

Diets and fracture are so much more fun

frosty heron
#

Were on Update 4, Utah its fine now, let it be

alpine plover
#

I personally found that Utah was perfect say for a few kinks
Until 3.75 happened

#

After that update Utah was carni Dryo

proud swan
#

the damage nerfs across the board took me a while to settle on, it firmly seperated dinosaurs into what you can fight and what you can't utahs could easily snipe carnos with shots in a pack and kill them, no thats not possible, i woudlnt say update2 utah was OP but it was stronger

barren oracle
#

Utah’s fineee

alpine plover
#

Not really

proud swan
#

we're all agreeing they are fine lol

#

apart from him 🙂

alpine plover
#

It's homogenized, and not in a good way

golden coral
#

You're kind of entirely missing Nacens point though, since you're just focused on the "nerf pounce" thing :p

alpine plover
#

An offensive creature being homogenized with a defensive creature shouldn't be the case unless it has very convincing intuitive mechanics

barren oracle
#

I’ve not a clue what that means being honest

alpine plover
proud swan
#

it means seperating fat droplets from milk

barren oracle
#

Lemme do some googling

golden coral
alpine plover
#

Oh, read that wrong lmao

barren oracle
proud swan
#

no erik i think we was reminiscing on update 2 utah and comparing it to update 4

frosty heron
golden coral
barren oracle
barren oracle
golden coral
barren oracle
#

Utah doesn’t need it

proud swan
#

i think the pounce is it one of the best spots its been in throughout its history, you can still punish dismounts though

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

I prefer a strong special ability over going back to bite & run tactics and making Utah a glass pistol instead of a glass cannon

barren oracle
alpine plover
#

Offensive creatures should be using multiple tools in tandem

golden coral
frosty heron
golden coral
barren oracle
proud swan
#

@alpine ploverthis was my counter though, its strong but not OP and it has too many penalties for using that most people dont use it, where it gets really dangerous is with a well coordinated discord hunting pack ❤️

frosty heron
#

How so? You miss you die, simple as that, and you can be killed on dismount

barren oracle
alpine plover
golden coral
#

You don't neccesarily die, and missing is very hard to achieve ^^

alpine plover
#

Is Dark souls esque game inherently linked with using more than one mechanic?

frosty heron
barren oracle
golden coral
frosty heron
#

Theres so many scenarios where you can miss , let the Ego stay on the side

barren oracle
#

If so I hated that argument with a Passion and would rather not recreate it

alpine plover
proud swan
#

pounce is still buggy int he sense that you can end up dismounting and falling when your supposed to connect. you can still get caught floating in the air, janky hitboxes mean you pounce others of the dino they have pounced etc lol

golden coral
barren oracle
#

AGHAGAH

#

I RUN

golden coral
#

@barren oracleI meant in game you dumbass :p

alpine plover
#

Offensive creatures having more uses and properly applying a tool kit to close the gap should be how offensive creatures overcome their counterparts

proud swan
#

@golden coralpounce is only easy to land on a big fat steggy, try landing it on a pachy or utah lol. bit easier on a carno but its still difficult, and when you miss and take 3 bites and die its fubar

golden coral
alpine plover
#

Let me in too

#

Testing is really hard without sandbox

proud swan
#

@golden coral server is up right now

alpine plover
#

what server is it called?

proud swan
#

The Raptors [TRAINING]

alpine plover
#

aight thanks

proud swan
#

we have our own discord if you wanted to join but we mostly play utah lol

alpine plover
#

I mostly play it too

#

I'd be down

proud swan
#

don't wanna appear to be puaching people but were a community of utahs

dusky surge
#

@honest fjord you know humans have like, 85hp right

#

they're fucking pathetic

#

you can one-tap them as utah with a headshot

#

a carno is just instant death to them no matter what

#

and a pounce/lunge is guaranteed death if you're playing deino/utah

barren oracle
#

Are dinos in the QA?

#

I@mean test branch

#

Or whatever it’s called

#

If so can I per say try to get kidnapped by a deino

#

I want to feel fear

frosty heron
dusky surge
slim dragon
#

A 60% juvie Utah can pin down a human with a pounce and kill him

barren oracle
#

Can I get kidnapped by deinos?!?!?

slim dragon
#

When I was playing earlier as Utah we kept killing every human in the server with no problam, even when they were 8+ against a single one of us
One juvie utah died when they were 10 humans on him
So I'd say they are balanced

#

But I agree the kick deals super high damage

barren oracle
#

There is a kick??!?!?!

slim dragon
#

Balanced that the fact its range is puny and you gotta be standing still to use it

slim dragon
slim dragon
barren oracle
#

What weight are they and do they have a Health bar

slim dragon
#

They weigh 85 kg and I think they have as much health

#

And they're herbivores

sinful cove
#

I saw a juv utah eating a dead merc by the river, kicked it in the face and it died instantly. Compies came for the body and i kicked 4 of them to death, then a hypsi showed up and tried to attack me so i kicked its ass 3 times and it died. This is peak gameplay

barren oracle
#

My pc is broken rn so I can’t play them TI_Cry

#

But ugh have this clip

#

39 seconds

placid reef
#

god this clip is getting more reposted than shit on reddit TI_dondiSmile

barren oracle
#

Good example of what I want to happen to me

#

I love horror with a passion

placid reef
#

if this can happen even with good gear, im all for it

barren oracle
#

I want to be stolen by a deino

#

That itself it the best

placid reef
#

i just want to roam in the night like in the clip and randomly hear a utha/dilo then i hear more of them one after the other TI_DiloSip

barren oracle
#

I just want to scream at the top of my lungs

placid reef
#

i hope there will be a mod we can make to attach the flashlight to our gear so we dont need to hold it

barren oracle
#

I hope there is flashlight gun attachments

placid reef
#

like shoulder, head

#

or that

barren oracle
#

Mercs kinda ugly without gear

placid reef
#

mercs took pec steroids

#

i hope there will be more models or we customize one before spawn

barren oracle
#

I want a animation for cleaning hypsi spit

#

Dunno if there is one

#

But I want it

placid reef
#

there prob is but again, hypsi lol

barren oracle
#

Kick the little bastards

lapis storm
barren oracle
#

Stop Trademarking things!

#

Especially the word soon it gets our hopes™️ up

alpine plover
grave veldt
#

What happened

alpine plover
#

Dev pings

grave veldt
#

Oh

#

Expected like a super bad nsfw post

alpine plover
#

no lol

placid reef
sinful cove
#

the issue of herbivore diets isnt that they are "hard" it's that they are boring as fuck and feel like nothing but a chore that punishes way harder than it rewards

placid reef
#

herbi diets is just down to spawn for food

sinful cove
#

running in a triangle to eat 3 plant with not even a semblence of choice is boring no matter what

#

the "oh thats cute i dig for roots" or "cool i knock coconuts from a tree" is interesting the first time but gets old and tedious fast

#

because it ends up being 75% of your gameplay

tawny sable
#

imo herbi diets should be like what carni diets are now, at least 2 different plants providing each nutrient. its such a boring mission to run in giant loops as a little pachy checking off oh, horned melon, oh, coconut, ooh, agave, when it should be more than that so im not stuck if all the melons are gone. like, why not pumpkins too? or dates if theres no coconuts? stuff like that.

sinful cove
#

herbivore diets should be more vague

#

for example, pumpkins and horned melons are both in the gourd family, gourd are very similar to eachother, so theres not much reason that a pumpkin should give you nutriends but a horned melon does not.

tawny sable
#

yes yes i like that, more plant family oriented rather than a specific type? and maybe the specific type would just give a little bonus, being a favorite. and the favorite could even be random for each dino.

sinful cove
#

idk if you saw the fat boring document i posted on diets before if you want to

tawny sable
#

like, pachies can eat all gourds, but maybe one pachy's absolute favorite is pumpkins, but this other pachy's favorite are melons

tawny sable
sinful cove
#

separating herbivore diets in to families like rose, cucurbits, legumes etc, and having different grazing terrains that benefit different animals more would be much more interesting variety

tawny sable
#

agreed

#

i would have loved to have like minerals too :( salt licks and stuff

#

so id have a reason, as an herbi, to visit the coast

#

or the mountains

sinful cove
#

i heard a while back that such things were planned but idk if they still are

tawny sable
#

i saw a salt lick thing in a dev stream but i dont remember right this second what they said they were for? i might be recalling wrong but it mightve had something to do with like. poison. idk.

sinful cove
#

i think it was to help with sickness debuffs

tawny sable
#

ah yeah

sinful cove
#

considering we will have more ways of getting sick in the future aside from overeating, supposedly

tawny sable
#

poison, being sick, pretty much the same nauseous feeling all around lmao

sinful cove
#

like venom and poisonous/rotten food yeah

#

troodon venom looks like it causes nausea in the concept

#

nausea and fatigue

tawny sable
#

i wonder how theyd make nausea work without giving people motion sickness irl

#

maybe just being likely to puke if you move too quickly or too much

#

nauseous teno would puke all over the place trying to chase down a utah after having an encounter with a troodon

sinful cove
#

probably the animal dry heaving and whatnot

hollow canyon
#

Herbivore diets definitely need some help. Herbivores should be at most as challenging to grow as carnivores(if not less, I outright think they should be easier o grow than a carnivore of the same caliber due to being typically less capable offensively), instead of being screwed over for the entire growth which artificially gets extended for them when compared to their carnivorous counterparts.

half girder
#

@wispy cave what?

half girder
spare badger
#

I like that idea
Instead of getting tired faster having a reduced capacity
Easy to implement too since it's already a thing for throwing up

sinful cove
#

What is that pachy feedback lol “killed one meat with 6 or 5 head butts” “kill a beef with 6 or 8 butts”

grave veldt
#

islecord moment

#

why is there a post about carno being bad

#

like you are stronger and faster then your prey

sinful cove
#

Carno clearly isnt that bad because the bastards are still spam calling in every corner of the map so theyre growing and thriving in large numbers

grave veldt
#

exactly

sinful cove
#

Its shitty that the fastest animal is also the apex predator and also has one of the most loud/annoying broadcasts

grave veldt
#

you can outrun the entire roster and are stronger then almost the whole cast except for 2 dinos

#

ambush charging is also surpringly effective

sinful cove
#

Actually depletes from gameplay quality to hear those cancerous moron carnos spam calling no matter where I go

grave veldt
#

its always carnos

#

or the pteras

#

i keep hearing pteras

sinful cove
#

Whenever i play ptera there are other pteras who fly close just to spam call and ruin my ears

grave veldt
#

the isle

sinful cove
#

Ive knocked a few of them in to the river to get them killed by deinos but a lot of them are just too high up for that

#

Often i feel like im like the only ptera on the map who isnt screaming like a chicken on fire

grave veldt
#

u probably are

#

the juvi ptera is the worse

#

super high screeching noise

#

constantly in my ear

sinful cove
#

Juvie pteras and juvie stegos never stfu they spam almost as much as carnos

half girder
grave veldt
#

^

sinful cove
#

I can never find the juvie stegos either like wtf are they hiding and spam calling like its their job

grave veldt
#

its like as soon as u kill one 10 more come out

#

or if its only one they start spam calling so others come

sinful cove
#

When one carno broadcasts 10 more respond

grave veldt
#

fr

half girder
#

im gonna go utah and kill stegos with a buddy cuz its just too easy

sinful cove
#

Utah is always either broken or busted fr

half girder
#

it is lol

#

i barely play pachy now, its just unfun

sinful cove
#

I remember when utah and dryo could solo stego with bites a few updates ago

grave veldt
#

why did they remove the trees as a way to get em off u

half girder
#

^

sinful cove
half girder
#

bushes apparently work but its hard to camp in a bush

sinful cove
#

Whenever they buff an animal out of being bad they do it too hard, when they nerf an animal people complain about they do it too hard

#

They rarely get that good inbetween

half girder
#

body fracture needs a buff man

grave veldt
#

i think your suggestion limiting max stam is pretty cool

#

and then if u keep getting body fractured the limit gets higher and higher

half girder
#

who?

sinful cove
#

Ive wanted the stam cap body fractures for a while, i was pretty disappointed with how they were implemented

grave veldt
half girder
#

oh

#

idk y utahs and carnos can use their right click tbh lol

grave veldt
#

my main problem with pounce is how theres barley any mud pools and you cant use your environment either

sinful cove
#

Pouncing while your ribs are broken. The isle

half girder
sinful cove
#

Fixing the water exploit was good but we shouldnt have lost trees as an option

half girder
#

pachy is playable but u better run if u see utahs

frosty heron
#

The Carno post doesnt make sense , however they arent as annoying and OP as they were, you kinda can fight them back now

half girder
#

either run or hope they are bad

sinful cove
#

In fact, when we get trample damage added we should be able to turn utahs and other grapplers in to skid marks against rocks as larger dinos

half girder
frosty heron
#

Everytime I saw a Carno on past patches from QA as Utah or Pachy it was like "Bruh im so dead" . Not feeling that anymore

grave veldt
#

having good positioning should be part of the game

barren oracle
sinful cove
#

Utah is just chaos embodiment in balance

barren oracle
#

Poor trike players

#

Their gon suffer so much

grave veldt
#

i think pounce itself is cool and fine i just hate that u cant use your environment

half girder
#

i use utah alt bite to dodge carno bites sometimes