#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 292 of 1

hollow canyon
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If you're asking about whether Evrima is worth playing then the answer right now would be a resounding "no". Perhaps when update 4 comes out it will be a good idea to get back to it but right now you wouldn't even be able to play it in peace. The livebranch deletes your progress upon safelogging, the QA branch works only around half the time and it's commonly completely occupied.

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Unless you want to play the legacy, in that case it's pretty much the same old thing with hardly any changes aside from the fact that seemingly only the no alt turn servers are left there. If you don't have experience in that sort of environment it could be troublesome.

vagrant mural
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I'd argue ptera gets more fun the more you interact with things, currently ground ptera/juvi quetz is actually viable and since only fish exist to fulfill your diet 90% of the time its fun to just fuck juvi pachies that can't escape or fight back

sinful cove
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It's fun to harass people as ptera on both live and qa honestly

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Its like it was made to be a nuisance

vagrant mural
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its concept art very much showcases that

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I'd rather it just fished and harassed shit than the weird ai only hunter/scavenger that can't actually benefit from carcasses

dusky surge
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honestly, i hope ptera starts stealing eggs or getting competition. Things to make it interact with others and have to pull off more crazy shit to survive. Quetz, herrera or deino with a vertical lunge would be nice too

vagrant mural
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vertical lunge is low key as useless as cling

dusky surge
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perhaps

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but it'd be cool

vagrant mural
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it would be cool

dusky surge
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and would scare the fuck out of pteras

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so that's two benefits

vagrant mural
dusky surge
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minor ptera snack

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also the coolest possible way to kill someone swimming above you

vagrant mural
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ngl I remember when I snagged a skimming ptera as like a sub deino 1 time

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that shit was awesome

dusky surge
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imagine a beipi on the surface of the water just getting fucking grabbed from below and dragged into the depths

vagrant mural
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beipi would either die on impact or probably have enough breath to have a higher chance of escape ngl

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like beipi should just turn into goo

primal dove
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So would u say deino should be able to fight a stego?

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Overall I just want to increase its dmg potential mixed up with more speed and swiftness in water but at the cost of health/resistance.

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I mean that´s how an ambush predator works right?

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Once trampling dmg gets added health will be useless for deino.

dense thunder
# primal dove Once trampling dmg gets added health will be useless for deino.

i generally since both Deino and Stego got addet i never understand how on earth an Stego cant just simply Stomp a Deino

the whole thing Deino should be able to fight Stego is in my opinion pretty "senseless"
Modern Crocodiles only do great against Animal way smaller then themself thigns the same size most of the Time need 2 or 3 Crocs together to drown
and anythign bigger simply bashed the crocodile around like its nothing

primal dove
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yea but stego needs a predator now and since people don´t want to lose their stego to a pack of critter utahs the only thing I see is deino

dense thunder
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thats why the Stego should have been addet with Allo or at least with Cerato

primal dove
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and also, deino is mostly solitary as any apex in the game so there should be at least a 40/60 for the stego

primal dove
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or just buff utah

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or straight up delete it

dense thunder
barren oracle
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In a sense of its not living anymore

barren oracle
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Didnt mess it up too much

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more bleed and it would be fine

primal dove
barren oracle
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everything has always been viable and still is

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just gotta play it differently

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utahs just a bit of a mess

primal dove
barren oracle
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They also want it to jump off a pounce in the direction it wants

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its gonna constantly be changed

primal dove
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but back to deino

barren oracle
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Deino is good at what it should do

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get food whenever it can

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doesnt always mean that they need to put effort into it

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It can pretty easily

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run into water

primal dove
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I think a deino should be able to kill a stego or any apex basically (but it defenitely should be very hard)1v1 but not like the way u imagine it, like going on land and chomping it down

barren oracle
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and problems solved

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New or Old south

dense thunder
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killing a giraffe its like what ?
yeah nothing cause when it falls over its dead its not able to stand up again in time or anything

barren oracle
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Deino wins 2v1 without losing health

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it can stun lock

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1v1 cant do much tho

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thats why new souths better

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Its very clear where you should and shouldnt be there

primal dove
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Deino just does bad as an ambush predator for me which is why so many people went on land in U3 and well played land croc

dense thunder
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or you have 10 Deinos at the same place killign literally anythign even stuff theyr not even get 2 % food from

hollow canyon
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How do you die to Stegos as a Deino? Just swim away from them

golden coral
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If you deliberately stay at the pond and do not consider your surroundings, any complaints about dying as deino to anything, is just invalid.

primal dove
golden coral
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That, is very much a skill issue, or rather, an issue of the deino not using whatever braincells it has

dense thunder
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yeah socan the deinos theyr is enough water around for them to exist but mostly almost all deinos gather at like 2 points

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then complain there is not enough food

primal dove
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Deino vs stego matchup is just who lands more attacks first wins which I really dislike, ofc u can bait out stam from the stego but then again is deino really an ambush predator in that situation?

golden coral
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Then maybe be something else, too many deinos to go around? I guess it is one way to limit population..

primal dove
barren oracle
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smh just dont play deino

golden coral
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If you're dumb enough to not see your surroundings and realize that you can get locked in, that's on you Judas, simple as that.

dense thunder
barren oracle
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cause if there is cannibals at center

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that means there is plenty of deinos already

golden coral
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And why would anyone even bother going to the pond to drink when you got the entire shallows.. :p

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You're not. You're supposed to see the envrionment, and realize "Oh shit, I can get locked down in here" and not go there in the first place

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It's not a difficult concept, I assure you, if you just use a braincell or two

primal dove
golden coral
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It's a survival game, use the terrain, the surroundings, to your advantage, and learn how others can do the same against you

primal dove
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ok so

golden coral
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If you sit yourself in a pond, you need to realize "Well, I can't get out of here if something is nearby" and plan accordingly

primal dove
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should deino have smth. like a death roll as an attack to use it against bigger "prey"? Instead of going on land and chomping it down.

dense thunder
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somehow i never got locked in by Stegos at south
simply in the pond they cant reach you
in the river they cant too
and if your alone or 2-3 theyr enough fish to not starve

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otherwise at least 1-4 deinos get killed

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still enough food

golden coral
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The first is incredibly risky, as you've learnt. The last could work, if people spread out. The middle, well, kill them off I guess. Find your own group and turn on them. The map as it stands has issues, I'm not denying that. I simply do not agree that people can complain about dying to stegos in the pond when it's obvious how it will go there.

primal dove
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can we stop talking about people getting kosed by stegos and come back to balancing a playable?

dense thunder
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no on the old map
stegos cant reach into the middle of the south river or the pond

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same there you can live in the soutpond with 2 other adult deinos and never starve

hollow canyon
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There was more than enough fish prior to 3.75

primal dove
barren oracle
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wha-

golden coral
hollow canyon
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It is kind of a balance discussion since this is about how Stego and Deino handle one another.

golden coral
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I mean, herbis can and do kill carnis on sight to get rid of them

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So if you see a bigger critter, especially of something not your species, you should probably expect it to try and murder you, herbi or carni

barren oracle
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Smh cant really complain about herbis considering the game loves carnis so much

primal dove
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can someone pls just tell me if deino should be able to have smth. like a deathroll as an attack so that it still is able to kill stuff bigger its size while not giving up its ambush predator playstyle (btw there would be a quick time event like in AC so that it´s not an insta kill). And also if u fail the quick time event u should be stunned for like 3-5s giving whatever u attacked the chance to kill u

golden coral
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Well, that sounds fair. You took at risk, and had a bad encounter. Same as will happen if you bump into any of the other bigger things that'll come down the road in that case

golden coral
primal dove
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It already had a bonebreak in the qa (it got removed btw) but well it still doesn´t solve the issue of deinos giving up their stealth and going on land to chomp down stegos which I really dislike

golden coral
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Well, deino going on land now vs a stego usually means a dead deino. I guess we just need a few more stegos to visit the new lake to prevent the deinos from mass grouping there :p

primal dove
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mb

golden coral
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They tend to congregate there, far too many of them at that. Small lake full of deinos xD

barren oracle
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deinos are discouraged already

primal dove
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ofc they will be but there is no other way killing stuff bigger ur size by going on land and biting them

barren oracle
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its a death wish

golden coral
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That much I agree with! I never liked it personally, it's a shame when there's plenty of cool places on the map and no one ever goes there.

barren oracle
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Not a problem In QA unless you count combat players at center pond

golden coral
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Maybe with the new heatmaps and stuff, they can figure out how to make the map better

primal dove
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Diets could solve this problem actually

primal dove
golden coral
primal dove
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maybe smth. like that idk

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otherwise I only see the death roll as an attack as a solution

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Bc rn and also probably in the future a stego isn´t really scared when it goes drinking which it shouldn´t be

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it´s like they´re inviting the deinos to attack them

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and once they come out they kill them lol

golden coral
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Ideally in the future, deino would have lots of prey range so the occassional stego/trike or rex/giga coming to drink wouldn't be worth reacting to in the first place. So shouldn't really be much of a matchup, unless the deino is found while traveling on land, in which case, well, it's probably not seeing water again.

primal dove
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yes but I don´t really like it that an apex predator only has to kill stuff smaller than it, kinda like the carno has to

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allthough carno is the apex land predator rn

golden coral
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Well carno isn't classed as apex, just because it's currently unchallenged. And deino is a slightly different manner because of how it hunts

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If we got something more akin to pounce, not that pounce is all that fun or engaging anyway, it would work out better

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But with current grab, you just can't let it hunt bigger things, since it's one grab and you're dead, drowned or just drowning and being bitten to death

primal dove
primal dove
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there should be a little "minigame" at least

knotty marlin
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i liked the idea of having a carno as an apex - I felt like it challenged the whole big slow high dps apex stereotype that is like super inaccurate in an ecosystem point of view

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but I agree that if we wanna add more dinosaurs it needs to be majorly reworked

sinful cove
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Having the apex carnivore also being the fastest dino in the game was a horrid idea from the start

knotty marlin
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100% agreed

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but slow lumbering rexes are the apex in every single piece of media

sinful cove
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Rexes are boring but carno was a godawful decision for the standing apex

knotty marlin
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because it was poorly implemented

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was carnotaurus an irl apex predator?

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hold on

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yeah it was

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in south america

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but they shouldve made it slower

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or less agile

sinful cove
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Carnos whole thing is speed, they should have just waited. Just like they should have waited on stego and deino

knotty marlin
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agreed

sinful cove
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Pretty sure dilophosaurus and some other preds were apex in their areas too but that doesnt really mean shit in the isle's ecosystem

knotty marlin
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yeah because they're always adding dinosaurs that don't fit

sinful cove
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Tbh cerato coulda been a better balanced option

knotty marlin
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100% agreed

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but honestly a game with balanced carnotaurus as apexes would be amazing

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or dilophosaurus, or utahraptor

sinful cove
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A slower brawler who can more realistically take on young stegos and not be the fastest mf on the island while being an apex

knotty marlin
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yeah

sinful cove
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Then kentro instead of stego actually

knotty marlin
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or buff packs

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prey bigger than predators is realistic

sinful cove
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Being in a pack is a buff in itself

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Utahs are just fucked by bugs

knotty marlin
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yeah

sinful cove
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And the devs made their pounce delay for some dumb reason

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And reduced its range it feels like

knotty marlin
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yeah

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no but yeah balance is hard to do right in a game where KOS stegos and tenos are common

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hard to make realistic ecosystems when everyone is a psychopath

sinful cove
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How does a stego KOS like please tell me

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Even tenos can only KOS you if youre afk or wasted all your stamina beforehand

grave veldt
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Once again just reinforces a point I made ages ago

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If they put kentro in instead of stego things wouldn’t be so off balance

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And they should’ve released deino with some other large semi aquatic so it at least has sum competition

dusky surge
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3 hour growth deino suggestion just sent me into conniptions

hollow canyon
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3 hour is a bit excessive, but having the perfect diet being 5 hours isn't any better(although I'm pretty sure Deino grows faster than that if it has a perfect diet all the way through its growth).

dusky surge
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it is

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it's 4 hours on perfect

hollow canyon
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Are you sure about that? It was 4 hours with the 150% growth buff

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Now that the buff was nerfed down to 120% it ought to be around ~4h30m

dusky surge
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no it wasn't

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20% of 5 hours is 4 hours lmao

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the base growtime is 10 hours

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unless im confused

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the math is WEIRD

hollow canyon
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I think you're confused

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No, the way it works is - you have a certain value for each growth tick

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it used to be base 0.5%

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you would gain 150% buff to that making it 1.25% for each tick

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so you'd need 80 ticks which added up to 4 hours

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I don't have the calculations at hand anymore

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but I remember that Stego and Deino used to add up to 4 hours back when the growth buff was 150%

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Currently the growth ticks work slightly differently

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For Pachy the base is 0.25% which is applied every 35 seconds or so

primal dove
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I think 3.5h would be fine if they tuned down the health from stego and deino, they are literally unkillable with the current playables we have

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allthough 3.5h also might be a little bit too fast but idk, u should defenitely feel it

hollow canyon
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It's too fast, especially for Deino that gets a free ride diet-wise

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Literally the best animal in the game just by the virtue of virtually not having to participate in this dumb diet system.

primal dove
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Yea I also don´t like it that Deino has no prefered food

hollow canyon
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I think you got me wrong

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I like the fact that it has no preferred food, it's all the other having preferred food that I have an issue with

primal dove
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It still should be able to eat anything but for that should grow slower but also have some prefered food which gives more nutrients that other do

primal dove
hollow canyon
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The second part of what you said now seems fine

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Some stuff should give more nutrients

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that's fine

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but having carnivores get no nutrients from certain species is just a... really silly choice to put it mildly

unborn iris
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With the math that every other grow uses, 120% is for some reason only 10% faster than update 3 grow times.

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So stego and deino should be 4 1/2 hours with perfect diet.

ocean wagon
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@surreal mulch i understand that balance can be wonky for 1v1, but utah shouldnt be really trying to solo a pachy unless the pachy isnt full grown or if the pachy is low on stam/health

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I do to somewhat agree that the alt hit shouldnt really stun utah for as long as it does, but its essentaily like fighting an animal that has a hammer glued to its head

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tail shots/body shots shouldnt stun an adult utah from a pachy alt attack but it a pachy lands a alt attack on the utahs head, it should be stunned

surreal mulch
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Utah struggles to kill a carno with 4 and pachy can kill a carno with just 2

sinful cove
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It is fair because utah can just leave

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Utah controls the confrontation

surreal mulch
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What if they r hungry

sinful cove
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Then too bad i guess, utah has multiple preferred prey animals to find

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It shouldn’t have an even fight 1v1 with a pachy unless the pachy is trash

surreal mulch
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I never said even it’s just too sided with pachy rn

sinful cove
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Pachy deserves a big advantage because it cant escape unless the utah was dropped on the head as a baby

surreal mulch
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It can if it runs in the trees plus it has a alt attack which if hits will garuntee death for Utah

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Like even if utahs pounce pachy it will have a good chance surviving

sinful cove
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If they ever fix utah's awful pounce it will have a better chance but pachy doesnt need a nerf and utah doesnt need a buff, just fixed bugs

sinful cove
surreal mulch
sinful cove
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They are slow compared to utah

surreal mulch
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Slower*

sinful cove
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Utah can track on the move and already has the speed advantage in the chase itself

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It has to be a stupid ass utah to just lose a pachy like that unless the pachy is a professional ninja spy

surreal mulch
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Yea but pachy can just setup an ambush whilst Utah is tracking

sinful cove
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And

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If it was weaker it wouldnt

surreal mulch
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Ded utah

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I’m saying get rid of that awful stun on alt attack

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Or reduce it

sinful cove
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A stun makes sense

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Only way it doesnt make sense is a tail hit

surreal mulch
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Mabye headshot stuns

sinful cove
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Body hit should knock over instead of stun perhaps but either way its fine doing cc

surreal mulch
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But alt attack is fairly easy to hit with

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Unlike Utah which is risking its whole life just by using pounce

sinful cove
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Headshot stun shouldnt have a shorter lasting cc than currently if body and tail hits are changed also

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Pounce is broken garbage right now thats a utah problem not a pachy problem

surreal mulch
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I’m talking about the missed stun on pounce

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The recovery frames

sinful cove
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If pounce wasnt so grossly bugged that it bounced you off when you shouldn’t have missed the recovery frames would be fine

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If pounce was fixed then utahs would still deserve to be vulnerable like they are on misses

alpine plover
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Utah is straight garbage because of bugs

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There's no way to realistically gauge it's viability through testing right now because the results in actual practice vary on Utah's getting dunked every time

dusky surge
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utah is shit, yes, but pachy, as a brawler, should be able to hold its own. The fastest creature nearly always controls the pace of the fight, it's up to the brawler to be able to take a blow and hit back

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make utah too good against pachy and pachy gets destroyed

sinful cove
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Legacy pachy where utah could nip it and dance around while the pachy bled out

dusky surge
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new pachy actually seems really interesting, because if utah's pounce didn't suck complete balls, it'd actually be better at brawling off carnos than utahs

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agility is extremely valuable against a brawler such as pachy, especially a brawler which relies on you being in front of it. Carno runs in a straight line towards its opponent, utahs cover literally every possible angle

crystal wharf
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utahs agility controls the engagement
especially with pachys current lack thereof
a decent utah can run circles around a pachy, and when the pounce decides to work pachy just dies
bleed is utahs most effective tool, and pachy cannot fight without stamina

dusky surge
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exactly

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pachy is the example of a brawler done well imo

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even with a slow speed and turn radius

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it hits so damn hard it makes up for that

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it is frankly terrifying how brutal a pachy is for a small tier

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it is the perfect example of a glass-cannon dinosaur that survives simply on the basis that predators know better than to fuck with an angry pachy

alpine plover
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Pachy is good
Right where it needs to be

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The alt attack could use a tweak, but it's nearly perfect

dusky surge
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frankly, i think pachy is perfectly designed because it's a herbi that carnis actually are scared of for once (which is probs why it's getting so much nerf requests)

its like people dont realise that the pachy is slow and they can just choose not to engage

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plus a pachy is extremely vulnerable to ambushes, it basically needs to be facing its prey for an advantage

alpine plover
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If they revert pounce and fix the bugs

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I could see Utah's and Pachy's being equals

golden coral
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Lets not revert the pounce back to that OP shit :p

alpine plover
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The whole interaction playing out on who see's who first

golden coral
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Also they're not supposed to be equals, pachy is supposed to shit on utah

alpine plover
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Update 2 pounce? Hell no

golden coral
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Utah do not get to both hunt big and same size prey effectively, that's not okay

alpine plover
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3.5 ish

golden coral
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Yeah no, that's too good even back then I'd say. Maybe a mix between that and the balance update

alpine plover
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I wouldn't say so

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If there was no missed pounce punishment, terrain counters
I'd certainly agree

dusky surge
alpine plover
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Imagine you miss a pounce right near a Pachy?
That Pachy is not gonna let that slide lmao

dusky surge
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the way pachy has basically handed carno a cold headbutt of reality that the game isn't supposed to be a murder fiesta sim is hilarious

golden coral
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I'll imagine that when I actually miss my pounces :p

alpine plover
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If pounce had no punishment, then I'd call for raw nerfs

golden coral
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But I'd also change the "punishment" to just a stam loss

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Since my main issue was always spammability of the pounce

alpine plover
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The missed pounce fixes that too

golden coral
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If you lost a good chunk of stam if you missed, it'd work fine as well

alpine plover
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But now you gotta give some bang for it's buck
An exchange

golden coral
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It does, but people dislike it obviously

alpine plover
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I'd like it if pounce was actually good

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It'd filter players

golden coral
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So as an alternative, I'd offer to cut a bit of stamina, so you can't just keep pouncing

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I never really missed my pounces so I can't say much for how useful that is as a punishment

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Pounce never demanded much in the first place

alpine plover
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I think there's a host of issue in your suggestion

dusky surge
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i actually think the utah v pachy engagement has the potential to be the most interesting one in the game thusfar (since the teno v carno matchup got fucked over by carno's new strength and teno's nosedive into bottom tier). Utah uses agility, bleed and speed to slowly chip away at a pachy till it can't fight back anymore. Pachy's movement and attacks are slow and clunky, but a single hit renders the fight won.

Way more interesting than "pachy wins and utah loses again lmao"

golden coral
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It being buggy is one thing, but using pounce as easy as can be

golden coral
alpine plover
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Utahs are endurance hunters, so cutting more stam can stagnate encounters/hunts for it. Especially when it needs to get away

golden coral
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You can hunt prey that hits hard, you can hunt small and large, you can hunt prey that runs away

golden coral
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Even one miss isn't going to leave you without at least half stam, you can still retreat if needed

alpine plover
dusky surge
alpine plover
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I'm perfectly okay with Dibbles squashing Utahs like in legacy

golden coral
dusky surge
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cera would also, imo, fuck over utahs (but for other reasoons)

alpine plover
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Raw reasons

golden coral
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I honestly don't see why people think pounce is so difficult to use, it's not

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It's stupidly easy

alpine plover
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Utah is not gonna be good at everything

golden coral
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Bugs aside, pounce is as easy as a bite

alpine plover
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That's arguable

golden coral
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Maybe I'm just better than you are ^^

alpine plover
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Could be the case

golden coral
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But again, I've rarely if ever missed a pounce

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And the times I have, it's been clear I was off in distance or aim

alpine plover
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Though Carno's are kinda proof against your suggestion since their such a good matchup against them

golden coral
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They are, but not because you can't pounce them

dusky surge
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carnos are (and should be) heavily favoured against utahs

alpine plover
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I agree

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Speed types should be tricky fight for Utahs

dusky surge
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deinos are also favoured due to a HEAVY bleed resist and ability to one tap utahs, but that's an unfair comparison due to, you know, them being aquatic

alpine plover
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Yeah
Suchos are just gonna floor Utahs

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Shrug off hits, dip in the water

dusky surge
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anky is just essentially going to be invincible to utahs tbh, but that's a while off

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you aren't going to be bleeding out an anky. You just aren't

golden coral
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We'll see :p

alpine plover
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Anything remotely agile, fast, or in unreachable areas are already scenarios Utah has trouble or simply can't contest

dusky surge
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utah is meant to be an all-rounder predator, hell, even it's biome is all-round

alpine plover
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Someone once complained that it's a "jack of all trades creature" but yeah? Isn't that what a pack hunter is supposed to be?
Viable solo, can punch up very high in numbers

golden coral
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Isn't that allo in legacy, pretty much

alpine plover
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Tree climbers, burrowers, anything that can dive aquatically have surefire ways to deal with Utah

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Let alone adding brawlers to the mix

dusky surge
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legacy had it's own group of issues

golden coral
dusky surge
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yea we need to see more brawlers

golden coral
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So I wouldn't put them together

dusky surge
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teno needs to figure out what the fuck it's identity is as well

#

since teno was supposed to be a brawler but pachy does it better

golden coral
#

Allo in legacy is also both pack hunter and jack of all trades, and yeah

#

@dusky surgeYou need to define "brawler" :p

#

I'm sure there's plenty of ideas of what constitutes that so

alpine plover
#

Brawler is something specified to combat rather than flee in most situations

#

And has the mechanics to support it, like Pachy

#

Or it can brawl effectively as a means to escape

#

Like Pachy

#

Teno is also a brawler
It cannot outrun a Utah or Carno
But it can combat them to kill or to escape confrontations

#

Disregarding qa ofc

dusky surge
#

Ambushers like to attack quick and kill something before it can really fight back. Endurance likes to chase down prey for long periods till it stops moving. Brawlers focus on either self-defence or defending what they want. Cera, for example, should focus far more on brawls than hunting, since it's an angry little bastard scavenger

#

It takes things, be it by force or intimidation and won't give them up

alpine plover
#

Giga and Rex are good examples of ambushers
And Utah is an endurance type

dusky surge
#

Cera doesn't much care for chasing things down or preparing the perfect ambush, hell, it doesn't even really much care to take on herbis, when it's the carnis that it would want to take from.

golden coral
#

Hm

#

Never really saw utah as endurance

#

It's not exactly the chaser type

alpine plover
#

What could it be then?

dusky surge
#

I have always seen it chase lmao

golden coral
#

I always saw them as ambushers honestly

#

But then I believe in using the pounce for said ambush

dusky surge
#

They are endurance/ambush

golden coral
#

Basically, the first you know of a utah is when it's on you

alpine plover
#

It's tool are certainly suited to drain it's prey, burn their stam, and bleed it

dusky surge
#

I believe every dino has a primary type and a secondary type

golden coral
#

Well yes Nacen, but primary prey for utah does not run

#

Big, slow, targets

#

Not something you're going to chase around

#

You're not chasing a rex or a trike down

dusky surge
#

So, for example, a deino is ambush/brawler, but absolutely not endurance.

alpine plover
#

Well, it's also hard to say given the whole roster isn't here yet either

golden coral
#

So to me utah is more so ambush/bleeder, it's a strange mix but yeah

#

But the utahs primary and best targets are not things that'll run away from it

alpine plover
#

Utahs are certainly gonna be chasing down some of these smalls wandering around in open areas

dusky surge
#

A utah is ambush/endurance. It doesn't do brawls very well.

golden coral
#

Endrance generally means the thing runs faster than you

#

But you follow it longer

#

Herrera in legacy was endurant

#

Great trot, great walk, other things were faster but you could follow them forever

#

Mind you, not current sandbox herrera, it goes at the speed of light for some reason xD

#

But yeah, to me a utah attack generally should start with them pouncing on you before you even know they're there

alpine plover
#

Endurance is also a loose term of hunting

golden coral
#

Maybe why I have less issues landing pounce, I don't run up and let them know I'm there :p

alpine plover
#

It could be outstamming it's prey or draining them overtime by working them

golden coral
#

Yeah, utah is the latter then

alpine plover
#

Wolves can catch most bison, but bringing it down is tiring and takes a lot of toll to do it

#

People generally classify them as endurance hunters

#

Even though they can ambush as well

#

Since ambushing is generally an advantage in hunting

#

In this case though
Ambusher predators classify as creatures who excel at it

#

Or rely on it

#

Like Giga and Rex

#

In Carno's case, using it's charge in tandom, it'd be favoured to ambush a Teno

golden coral
#

Rex, sure. Not sure gigas need to ambush, they just follow you forever :p

#

Endurance giga

alpine plover
#

Sure, but you get the gist

golden coral
#

Yeah

#

I do wish utahs were a bit more ambush focused

#

Though maybe that's just a player issue

#

@dusky surgeMuch as it's fun to see a pachy smack a carno, wasn't it said that pachy would do well to leave after having hit the carno, or it would still die?

cedar shore
#

@coral lodge Teno takes 8 tail slams to kill a carno, it has stam for 10 tail slams, juuust gonna let that out there…

jagged heart
#

@hot lintel Carno's bleed is fine, of course its going to bleed out low tier dinos in a couple bites if they dont sit down, bleed will always be something to worry about if youre bitten a couple times by something big, is carno suppose to never do bleed? Carno often kills low tiers before they even bleed out

hot lintel
#

It just makes the whole stunning gig redundant when you can kill pretty much anything in a few bites. It should really be more focused on the charge.

grave veldt
trim rose
# golden coral You're not chasing a rex or a trike down

I thought Utah wasn't meant to fight Rex, especially not in Evrima? Pounce is way too risky to use as a main attack to warrant Utah being an ambush predator. If you get bucked off, you risk being killed while stuck in the resulting animation, which means you need to detach quickly on your own (especially so you don't drain as much stam since pouncing can drain a full stam bar in 10 seconds or less), which means you don't do as much damage. And after the first attack, you've blown your cover and now you're going to have to fight, run while they chase you, or chase them while they run. In Legacy, Utahs had more stam than Maias & Carnos (as long as you didn't jump or use ambush speed).
Plus, Utah is a pack hunter. Pack hunters that cannot wrestle their prey to the ground and suffocate with a bite to the throat (like lions), are endurance runners (like wolves & african wild dogs & hyenas).

hollow canyon
barren oracle
#

7

#

that's not at all balanced

hollow canyon
#

Yea, tailslam deals 250 damage

barren oracle
#

what if theres more than one carno-

hollow canyon
#

The damage output of all the animals other than Stego and Deino was lowered during the update 3.75

barren oracle
#

Without pachy teno would be on a death wish attacking a carno

hollow canyon
#

With Pachy Teno is on a death wish - Pachy absolutely murders Tenonto atm

barren oracle
#

Ikr thats dumb

hollow canyon
#

The moment you land the ram on it it's pretty much dead

barren oracle
#

but their mixpacks are pretty busted

hollow canyon
#

admittedly this is probably because the fractures aren't yet completely ready

#

and they completely bonebreak you with a single attack

barren oracle
#

Tbh dont look bad Rn

#

Keep pachys the same and mess around with everything else

#

mainly mess with carnos bone break and make it 2-3 rams

hollow canyon
#

Pachy will be sorted out when fractures are fully complete I believe

#

well it does need some help at its juvie stage but that's also WiP

barren oracle
#

teno tailslam definitely should break a pachys bone

hollow canyon
#

Since it simply doesn't have the animations for its juvenile

barren oracle
hollow canyon
#

I don't think tailslam should be bonebreaking at all

#

It's an attack that already applies CC and can be used repeatedly

barren oracle
#

I mean your hitting it with a blunt and heavy tail

hollow canyon
#

in general it's hard to balance out properly

barren oracle
#

I can imagine Head fracturing or whatever their calling it

hollow canyon
#

The issue with it is that if you land one tailslam/kick you typically get to land additional 2 for free

barren oracle
#

But tbf yeah hard to balance in current ecosystem

#

They fucked up the order of dinos Majorly

hollow canyon
#

It's not even really about the ecosystem, it's just that an attack that does so many things at once is very problematic to balance out

barren oracle
#

like fr should of got things smaller and the same size of teno first

hollow canyon
#

same goes for Carno's charge although it's less problematic because you can't use it repeatedly, nevertheless - when it applied fractures it was completely overtuned

barren oracle
#

like Mono and Dilo would of been nice before carno

#

aswell as cerato

hollow canyon
#

Dilo requires night vision

#

Cerato would be fine, I agree

barren oracle
#

we've needed night vision for ages tho

#

we also should of got kentro and hera before steg

#

beipi too

hollow canyon
#

Stego was meant to be AI only

#

it got added as a playable because its AI wasn't ready

barren oracle
#

stego AI should be a while away tbh

hollow canyon
#

Stego AI shouldn't be added at all

barren oracle
#

Nah it would be nice after a while

#

not like it should hunt stuff down

hollow canyon
#

Neither should Tenonto or Carno for that matter

#

No, it's about the fact that it would be free food

barren oracle
#

Carno as of RN no

hollow canyon
#

Neither of them is a good addition

barren oracle
#

Teno is good and pretty hard to kill

hollow canyon
#

No, it's absolute free food

barren oracle
#

you gotta put into consideration that there probably wont be cheeses when their finished

hollow canyon
#

(x) doubt

barren oracle
#

If there would be cheeses i doubt they would be worth it

hollow canyon
#

The meta for growing any carnivore on the QA branch atm is to listen for the Tenonto call and bee-line it as it gives you a tonne of food that lasts you for a very long time and puts up 0 fight

barren oracle
#

Teno Needs herds tbh

hollow canyon
#

It's not about herds at all

#

it's about the fact that AI is absolutely mindbogglingly stupid

#

it hardly ever fights back

barren oracle
#

Added too early i agree

hollow canyon
#

and it won't ever fight back against coordinated player groups

barren oracle
#

They need to do quite a bit of changes to make them good

hollow canyon
#

I think you severely overestimate what's possible to do AI-wise for a single person(Amarok) in such a short time span

#

Games that have good AI take ages to be developed

#

and have many people working on them

#

otherwise you get exactly such results like the current Carno or Tenonto

barren oracle
#

Amarok hasnt done too bad with the pathfinding (avoiding carnos existance)

hollow canyon
#

one can't fight back, the other has aimbot and tracks you till the end of the world

barren oracle
#

The threat of the AI is like a scale

#

at one point its a deathwish the other its nothing

#

The AI have potential

#

Just got spedrun very fast

#

Btw animals that should of came before stego and deino time

#

Kentro-Ovi-Herrera-Galli-Dilo-Cerato-Pachy-troodon-Mono

#

Half of that would of been nice before carno too

sinful cove
hollow canyon
#

^

grave veldt
primal dove
#

Utah and teno are free food, pachy is like the only thing that can scare and kill a carno, deino is deino and stego is gigabroken, smash ur head as a juvi (25%) into a wall and not even a carno will be able to kill u, bleeding out a stego is impossible now too bc how fast they heal the bleed

cedar shore
#

@surreal mulch Utah can solo a pachy, just be good at the game lol

barren oracle
cedar shore
#

@hollow canyon ?

hollow canyon
#

I've had this discussion like half a dozen of times already

#

It wasn't fine before

#

Nowhere close

cedar shore
#

okay okay but thats not my main point

hollow canyon
#

Utah had 1/4th the HP of a Stego

#

half the HP of a Carno

cedar shore
#

yeah ik but what im trying to say is that they should be more careful with balancing

hollow canyon
#

it was bloating the biteforces of everything else on the roster

cedar shore
#

Im not saying it was perfectly balanced before but they are too careless with how they balance things now imo

hollow canyon
#

Shouldn't have brought up the point about the HP and weight then because they absolutely should be either equal to one another or close to being equal

cedar shore
hollow canyon
#

Cause Utah shouldn't be twice as tanky as it is

cedar shore
#

?

hollow canyon
#

It had way too much hp

cedar shore
#

Yeah thats fair but making hp = weight is a huge bottleneck

hollow canyon
#

causing Carno and Tenonto to deal way too much damage

#

Why?

cedar shore
#

never said it didnt need a hp nerf

#

all im saying is that you are shooting yourself in the foot by doing that

hollow canyon
#

Why is it a huge bottleneck to have each animal have as much hp as its size would suggest?

cedar shore
#

Weight will be tied to the realistic weight of the dinosaur

hollow canyon
#

No, they're not shooting themselves in the food

barren oracle
#

Utah pounce bad

hollow canyon
#

Not necessarily

#

otherwise Tenonto would be much weaker and Utah would be tankier

cedar shore
hollow canyon
#

Stego takes more than 4 hours

cedar shore
#

with diet

hollow canyon
#

and it's much more vulnerable during its growth

#

with a perfect diet it takes more than 4 hours still

cedar shore
#

stego is suffering from pue syndrome rn

#

its just way to strong and beefy

#

utah has been nerfed to the ground so noone plays it

hollow canyon
#

It's an apex surrounded by small animals most of whom aren't designed to hunt large game and the one that is is so bugged that it's unplayable

cedar shore
#

teno just got nerfed aswell for no apparent reason and is useless

hollow canyon
#

Utah is above all bugged to all hell

cedar shore
#

that aswell

hollow canyon
#

Its pounce has a 50% chance of working

#

if it worked as intended it would be fine

cedar shore
hollow canyon
#

I've played it yesterday

cedar shore
#

still it takes a stupid amount of pounces to kill a stego now..

golden coral
#

It is, or should be yes. Granted, its not well designed for stego or anky, but in general, utah is well designed to hunt large prey.

hollow canyon
#

I've literally phased through animals that I was pouncing twice

cedar shore
#

Once you reach adult as stego everything just becomes stale since noone in their right mind will attack you, making the game more booring

hollow canyon
#

other than that it wasn't bad but the fact that the offensive tool of Utah works only every now and then is just unaccpetable

golden coral
#

Stego should be taken out for now, it doesn't fit, though deino is even worse

cedar shore
#

true

#

but its allready made so why take it out..

golden coral
#

But if you did diets better, you could probably encourage stego on stego violence

hollow canyon
#

No animal will be taken out, it's not a realistic suggestion

#

Utah just needs to have its pounce fixed

#

its range needs to go back to the way it was before

cedar shore
#

Stego just needs to be a bit weaker for now while the rooster consists of low tier predators to make the game more fun for everyone

hollow canyon
#

idk what's up with it barely traversing any distance while pouncing

#

I also don't know why it phases through things this way

#

those issues didn't exist a year ago

#

I can't comprehend how they arose now

cedar shore
#

new update, new bugs

#

its allways like that for every game..

hollow canyon
#

The nerf to the distance that Utah travels by pouncing doesn't seem like a bug I think it was just nerfed

cedar shore
#

regardeless i think you missed my entire main point of my suggestion

hollow canyon
#

that should be reversed

#

no wonder Utah bugs out while pouncing uphill

thin mantle
cedar shore
golden coral
cedar shore
thin mantle
cedar shore
#

its hp got buffed while all other dinsoaurs got an universal damage nerf

#

its extremely tanky now

golden coral
#

If they had decided to make stego growth 3 hours back then, there would be less complaints about the utah/stego matchup and the carno one for that matter (stego would still be badly designed but still), but 5 hours is not worth it

golden coral
# cedar shore part of

Yes, it's "saved by stats", which in my eyes does not make it a well made playable. Hence why I and others talk about a rework for it

cedar shore
#

a rework would prob be better tbh when it has that many issues

thin mantle
#

Indeed

golden coral
thin mantle
#

Particularly it's combat, it's incredibly phoned in

golden coral
#

Hence the rework and "take it out" for now. Because there's only so much you can do to fix things with stats. The same really goes for utah pounce. Sure, we can buff the pounce to high heaven to compensate for how buggy it is

cedar shore
golden coral
#

But that's obviously not the best solution

cedar shore
#

taking it out would only anger the community

#

thats just a nuclear sollution to fixing its problems

golden coral
#

It is, unfortunately

#

Same with deino, there's some fixes, but probs not popular ones

cedar shore
#

both deino and stego are pretty popular

#

with such a small rooster taking out one of the more played herbavores would be a pretty significant change

golden coral
#

I wish we knew how popular. You think they can do a heatmap but just focused on amount of a playable, and maybe growth stages?

thin mantle
#

Popularity is one of the biggest issues the game faces, it prevents functionality enhancing changes from being made to the game because of the perceived/potential community backlash.

sinful cove
#

how is it almost impossible to get away from a fight as deino? jus swim in to the water lol

#

i dont get that feedback

#

does that guy want a deino damage buff

thin mantle
golden coral
#

Well, if it's deino vs deino it's an issue

#

Bad matchup all around

thin mantle
#

Indeed, deino is to slow and clunky to avoid combat with itself

sinful cove
#

the suggestion is complaining about deino vs stego

thin mantle
#

Wow ok that makes no sense

sinful cove
#

like as a deino you HAVE to fight a stego, the stego has a magnetic pull that forces the deino to fight it

#

or something

thin mantle
#

xD

#

Yes, stego plates intrinsically attract crocs to them, you simply can't resist

golden coral
#

Hah xD

mental roost
#

It's the thicc meaty hips on the stego

sinful cove
#

Deinos when they see a stego

thin mantle
mental roost
#

Deinos only know to unga and bunga(same for carnos)

#

They see such a thicc juicy animal and they just have to take a bite out of it, despite being able to avoid the fight entirely

sinful cove
#

deinos are like those fat people who eat at mcdonalds everyday and then blames the mcdonalds for getting them fat

thin mantle
#

That's an apt comparison

mental roost
#

-Deino is 8 tons afterall....sooo

#

Pretty fair

thin mantle
#

"We live in a society"

primal dove
#

I think deino should be able to be at least be a threat to a stego but not in the way like it jumps out of the water and chomps it down on land

primal dove
sinful cove
#

the deathroll basically sounds like a oneshot especially if there is more than one deino around. this guy said the stego killed him in 6 hits, that is nowhere near comparable to getting half your hp chopped by a deathroll + head fracture making it hard to get away after. this is pretty much a one hit death sentence ambush which isnt great on an animal that takes many hours to grow

primal dove
#

I changed my suggestion, but I don´t see any other solution to make a stego fear a deino that doesn´t go on land, bc if it does so it will get spiked by the stego

river nebula
#

as stupid as it would be sometimes I do wish if a stego go bit on the face like a dieno its head would pop like a grape and itd keel over and die

primal dove
#

stegos head is smaller than a melon, idk why deino can´t just break it´s neck or smth. but yea that´d be shit for balancing

#

maybe make it a perk when perks come out? So that not every deino has it but there still is a small chance that the next sip u take might be ur death sentence idk

delicate pecan
#

@jagged heart I wanna discuss your feedback

i think pachy doesn't need a nerf, utah needs buff only. that's why utahs are fucked against pachys, carnos etc

primal dove
#

^

thin mantle
# primal dove I changed my suggestion, but I don´t see any other solution to make a stego fear...

I honestly think the problem doesn't exist. This dynamic will exist for any animal stronger than deino in the future, deino has the water to retreat to and stego beating deinos in combat isn't unreasonable. An alternative change would be to lower the height in which stego has to swim, or at least limit stegos tail swing to when it's unhindered in movement (in a water depth that doesn't slow their sprint to a trot)

river nebula
#

Once something like Acro gets put in Stego will have something that is actually a threat to it since acro could probably easily bleed it out

trim rose
# delicate pecan <@896814963237191681> I wanna discuss your feedback i think pachy doesn't nee...

I agree. I think Utah's jump in particular needs improvement. If Utah could jump from a standstill forward, to the sides, and backward, without needing inertia to do so, and jump a little higher like it does in Legacy, it would greatly help to balance combat more & be an excellent tool for Utah to utilize. It would be much easier for them to dodge fatal attacks & get unstuck from either collision or places on the map where a dino might walk into and get stuck.
Also, Pachy hitting the tip of a Utah's tail shouldn't be able to stun a Utah. That's happened to me twice now.

thin mantle
#

@urban briar just increase its base movement speed, ambush speed logistically makes no sense

urban briar
# thin mantle <@434517251152936960> just increase its base movement speed, ambush speed logist...

When I say tweaked I'm referring to something along the lines of giving it an "ability" to allow it to move faster for a short period of time. Whether that's obtained by crouching for x amount of time or activated by pressing a button and consuming immediate stam, either way I think the Utah needs a way to move slightly quicker in certain circumstances, especially if they are going to allow its damage to remain insignificant compared to other carnivores.

thin mantle
#

Granted Utah shouldn’t be as useless as it is, so giving it an ability that compensated for it being otherwise obsolete is perhaps a step in the wrong direction in regards to fixing it

urban briar
# thin mantle Granted Utah shouldn’t be as useless as it is, so giving it an ability that comp...

Outside of fixing its pounce, what else does Utah need to be "fixed"? Otherwise we're just talking giving it flat-out more bite damage or more bleed from pounce. Either way neither of those things change it mechanically, and that's all I was suggesting. Give it more options. Pretty sure the raptors in JP (which these utahs are heavily inspired by) could run at top speeds between 40-60mph. The current utahs top sprint is maybe half of that.

sudden reef
#

when you get hit by a pachy does it eventually reset to 2 hits again or do you need to be fractured for it to reset to 2

sinful cove
grave veldt
#

The first iteration of evrima

#

Teleportahs

jagged heart
barren oracle
barren oracle
#

Huh

#

Bad WiFi made that tag you twice

delicate pecan
#

3 pachy can kill onr

#

and the other thing is carnos can fuck them up

#

depends on how u play

barren oracle
#

3 tags about pachy being the goat

#

Very nice

jagged heart
dusky surge
#

the other fracture variants aren't in yet

barren oracle
#

I mean like 9 dinos in rn

#

Each has to get like 56 new animations or smthn like that

alpine plover
#

like one charge absolutely shits on a utah cause its slightly smaller, but does a lot less damage to a bigger carno, still leg breaking it though

jagged heart
alpine plover
#

i mean the physical impact damage

red temple
#

Why a nerf tho? If you get slammed in the leg by a big animal...your leg breaks....It creates risk vs reward...Same as in the animal kingdom. A carno for example needs to catch a pachy by itself or have a pack hunt a few of them....Utah is too small to take on a pachy..Unless he/she is a not so good player.
Not to mention that spamming the headbutt uses alot of stam so the pachy has to be careful as well.
When there is an anky in-game and it tail whacks you and you get a broken leg....and you sit there while the anky kills you....It's your fault..you should have chose another target that is safer.
or for example you are a pack of utahs....and you pounce the anky and bleed it out.....but a carno (in this case) or something bigger other than an apex such as allos and such when they get added into game....it will be hard to kill something that can hurt you easily...each dino does...and will have it's preferred prey to hunt. Utah's for example seem that they are meant for pack hunting bigger dinos..whereas carnos are made to chase down small prey and scoop them up...and if need be (you catch something by surprise) something as big...or smaller than you...you can charge and ram them. (But if that thing were to see you coming and act like it's not paying attention....) SCHWAK right in the leg,face,ribs, Whatever then it runs away., or chooses to kill you if it is threatened enough.....There's no need to get mad about the fracture mechanic...its realistic.

river nebula
#

I think pachys head ram should do less dmg but more fracture so you dont have 2 pachys killing a carno instead its a killing tool to animals its size and escape tool for animals larger then pachy

hollow canyon
barren oracle
#

Utah is not infact relevent to pachy in balance terms

#

its job is to hunt large and slower creatures

#

not the bone breaking headbutting boi

hollow canyon
#

That's just nonsense, the only large animla that Utah might potentially be any good at hunting is Stego, Tenonto and Carno just murder it. Pachy handles large animals as well as Utah does if not better. While it might be incapable of killing Stegos it fares far better against Carno and Tenonto than Utah does so this whole "utah's a big-game hunter" logic goes right down the drain.

barren oracle
#

the current roster isnt in utahs favour

#

carno and teno dont fit its diet

hollow canyon
#

Neither does Pachy nor anything else it would seem going by what people are saying

barren oracle
#

small small game and large game fit it

hollow canyon
#

there's 0 reason why Pachy should have a big advantage over Utah, it's as simple as that. Should it be a Pachy favoured match up? Yea, slightly, but it should absolutely be possible for Utah to take down a Pachy 1v1.

golden coral
#

Roster issue :p

hollow canyon
#

Yea, Pachy is small game though

#

why would Utah be unable to hunt it?

barren oracle
#

no pachy is larger than it

hollow canyon
#

Hardly so, the two are just about the same size

barren oracle
#

and pachy can easily defend itself from carno

hollow canyon
#

By this logic Alberto is small game for Allo

barren oracle
#

plus a smart utah could win anyway

#

its not impossible just not remotely favourable

hollow canyon
#

Yes it can easily defend itself against Carno, and Utah and Tenonto while we're at it

barren oracle
#

Pachy is mildly busted at the moment

#

further developed fractures would fix that though

#

As right now its just leg break

hollow canyon
#

It should help, we will see

#

I just vehemently disagree with the sentiment that Pachy should have a very clear advantage over Utah

#

the two are of similar sizes and Pachy doesn't handle larger animals any worse than Utah does

#

it currently has far more favourable match ups than Utah

barren oracle
#

Give me a second i just hit to the chorus of chase you from jojo's

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im in a better place

hollow canyon
#

I need to get back to my Allo regardless and I believe that everything that needed to be said has already been stated so

peak pumice
#

bro lets start with the steg: the steg is way to op in the sense that it can constantly swing without cooldown. Like i got hit twice by a steg in 3 seconds when i was getting tail slammed by a teno. more on teno later. anyway the steg needs a few things: smaller tailswing hitbox, lower health the thing has way too much, and less stam, this thing can swing its heavy tail way too quickly, and as soon as its done with the first swing it can hit again. the stam is way too much because of the amount of swings. and all the adults are always in groups of at least 4, so that COMPLETLY TAKES THEM OUT OF THE FOOD CHAIN OF WHAT ANYHTING CAN POSSIBLY HUNT. Now for the tenos: I can personally vouch that the teno tail slam is spammable and very much so. A carno should be able to kill a teno no sweat, BUT their turn radius is too fast so literally every time i try to carno charge them they turn around and constantly tail smal me in place. As the utah if u get hit twice by that u r ded. And that is saying a lot considering how fast you can use the tail slap. This thing, in my book, only gets 2 low damage attacks considering it already speedy af. first, it gets a bite that does about 7 percent damage. then it gets the kick for about 15 percent damage and the utah gets pushed back a bit. the main defence on this should be speed. And need i explain your pachy? It can literally 1v4 utahs i seen it. nerf literally every aspect of the pachy. make it need more food, less stam, less damage, less speed, make the knockback effect do less it can ragdoll utahs like 20 ft for some reason, and give it like a 3 hour grow time. the pachy's stationary attack should be a bite, and the charge you should need top speed to start it like a carno.

golden coral
# peak pumice bro lets start with the steg: the steg is way to op in the sense that it can con...

So you basically want the herbis to be fodder. Good to know you have no idea what you're on about.

Stego had only 10 swings at one time, it was very bad for it. It has had lower health, which was also not ideal. And while the quick jab is rather fast, it's a specific angle, the other attacks are not as fast. Stego can be baited rather easily and taken down by just a few utahs if they know what to do.

As for teno, in QA it's currently really bad, or so people keep saying. With being unable to defend against a carno like it used to be able to. And no, a carno should not kill a teno "no sweat", it should have to work for it, since it can choose the encounter entirely. If you get seen during charge, perhaps work on your ability to ambush and only engage charge when you're a second away from hitting.

And from what I know, pachy can be defeated by a single utah, it comes down to who hits who first and in what manner. And the utah has the choice of encounter there at that. And pachy bite? Are you serious? Sure, stego has a bite too, but those are not useful except for juvies and similar.

sinful cove
#

Another carni main that wants to play jurassic park RP oneshotting all herbivores and broadcastinng like they accomplished something

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Imagine unironically wanting teno to be nerfed after it has already been turned in to fodder

hollow canyon
#

@peak pumiceCarno handles Tenonto with no sweat atm, it's outright too easy, idk how you've reached different conclusions. All you have to do as a Carno is dodge 4 tailslams and Tenonto is as good as dead because it simply doesn't have enough stamina to kill you at that point.

#

Stego has as much HP as it should have - it's a 6t animal, idk what you're expecting.

sinful cove
#

Carno tanks the slams in qa, it can handle a whole barrage. It has too much lenience vs teno

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Stego you can literally walk away from

hollow canyon
#

What do you mean "whole barrage"?

sinful cove
#

The hits you take while CCed

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So the initial hit+ following hits

hollow canyon
#

Yea duh, obviously you should be able to survive that

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the idea that Tenonto should be capable of killing a Carno after landing a single CC is just absurd as what that guy is proposing

sinful cove
#

Carno is still able to keep fighting after this and isnt forced in to retreating after being a dumbass and being hit

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Tenonto's “heavy hitter” is anything but that

hollow canyon
#

It depends on where and how many you hit

sinful cove
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Carno is a better brawler than tenonto rn while being the fastest land animal planned

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If this person got killed by wet noodle tenonto on their rocket rex then they should probably leave the isle and play solitaire instead

wise sparrow
#

God I hope the dev's dont listen to these people crying about how the herbis can actually defend themselves. Why is it so common in games that carnivores are always better than herbivores. Take JWE a fucking CARNO can ez kill a TRIKE. Poor herbis man.

sinful cove
#

These peoples' crying is probably what got tenonto turned in to fodder in the first place

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Wont be surprised if the devs wreck pachy and stego to pander to the absolute bottom of the barrel players in the carni base

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It tends to happen

wise sparrow
#

The dev's have shown that they can make herbis viable but they keep listing to the JP fans who still think velo is 6ft tall and spino can kill rex

hollow canyon
#

No, what got Tenonto nerfed in the first place was the fact that all the smaller animals were getting nerfed in 3.75. Tenonto was the only one that didn't get its damage tuned down. Carno went down to 200N on its bite from 350N, Tenonto kept its 360N tailslam. The match up between the two was regarded either as 50-50 prior to those changes or even as Tenonto-favoured. It was obvious that Tenonto would get nerfed, it was only a matter of time.

sinful cove
sinful cove
hollow canyon
#

Yes, that's what I'm saying

wise sparrow
hollow canyon
#

it was obvious it would get nerfed

sinful cove
#

It is useless now

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The tail slams may as well be an empty paper towel roll bonk on the head and calling the carno a silly goose

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Thats about how punishing it is

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto's tailslam has no right to be above 300N considering the stats of other animals right now.

sinful cove
#

The stamina cost isnt the problem its the attack being the equivalent of being slapped with a wet baguette

hollow canyon
#

It should probably be higher than 250N though

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All the other animals had their damage nerfed too

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Carno had 350 damage and Utah had 130 damage

sinful cove
#

And? Tenonto suffered the worst. Utah was bad before because the devs cant figure its shit out SOMEHOW

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even though it just needed a few fixes before

hollow canyon
#

Why did Tenonto suffer the worst?

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Why do you think that is?

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It's because its attack costs stamina

sinful cove
#

Carno fucking steamrolls and out-brawls it

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No the stamina isnt the issue

hollow canyon
#

So why does Tenonto fare worse despite losing less damage than Carno and Utah?

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Tenonto's tailslam lost relatively less damage than the bites of Carno and Utah

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the difference between these playables is that Tenonto's attack costs stamina

sinful cove
#

Because its fighting carno who is more durable and can laugh off his barrage and proceed to wreck tenonto's shit

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Utah is also trash im not discussing it here

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Im here on the carno teno matchup

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Because utah is fodder too because the devs couldnt fix the two problems it seemed to have and instead added more problems

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Turned a bad animal in to a bad animal

hollow canyon
#

Again - Carno also deals less damage now, it used to need only 6 bites to kill a Tenonto, now it needs 9, Tenonto used to need 6 tailslams to kill a Carno, now it needs 8.

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They both became more tanky

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and can handle each other's damage output better

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the difference is that Tenonto actually needs stamina to fight

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and the moment you cause it to miss 4 tailslams it becomes just fodder

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Both of those animals dealt way too much damage previously and deserved a nerf

vagrant mural
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What if the two were somehow magically non-exclusive to one another

wise sparrow
hollow canyon
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Exactly

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That's precisely my point - Tenonto simply runs out of stamina because the cost remained the same while the damage went down

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That has to change imo - reversing the damage nerf is definitely not an option(although increasing it slightly wouldn't hurt I believe).

wise sparrow
#

The BIG problem is that the devs need the fastest animal in the game to be the generalist. Once cera comes in carno can afford to be tuned down slightly. Rn carno was just the wrong mid tier carnivore to add first

dusky surge
# barren oracle Utah is not infact relevent to pachy in balance terms

this is stupid and i hate it. Utah is extremely relavent, since pachy is designed to deal much more effectively with carno than utah. Utah is agile, which plays a big part in how it handles pachy, as its speed and agility can make it a tough target to hit with pachy's slow turn radius, slow attacks and so on. The issue carno players are yet to fully grasp is pachy is meant to punish people who run directly at it and do not try to ambush it or move unpredictably around it, and carno mains haven't quite cracked that code yet

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utah, essentially, is pachy's best counter

sinful cove
dusky surge
#

exactly

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utah is EXTREMELY generalist

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but yea

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utah should be to pachy what carno is to teno

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a fair fight

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(now as we know, this isn't the case atm, but one can dream)

sinful cove
#

what it was before qa really

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where if a carno landed its charge it could gain advantage but it would be disadvantaged otherwise

dusky surge
#

Carno being a speedy ambush opportunist that can choose its battles seems far more fun and fitting for the animal

sinful cove
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it feels like they want carno to cover every larger predator role until those other predators are added

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which is nightmarish

dusky surge
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God I just want cera so we can give all the brawl capability to it

sinful cove
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they shoulda added cera first but here we are

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in hell lol

dusky surge
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i agree

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cera absolutely would've been fine first

sinful cove
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utah, teno and ptera are the three animals who make sense to be in right now

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stego, deino and carno were too soon

dusky surge
#

a scary and powerful mid-tier which exists to get a surprise kill or scare off utahs from their food

sinful cove
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oh and dryo and hypsi sort of just exist

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cerato would have been a better even match for teno than carno

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once cera is added i hope its more on par with teno and carno gets a phat nerf

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and then utah is i the back waiting for the devs to stop trying to fix its broken bones with a hammer and actually make it viable

dusky surge
#

funny thing is, cera would likely end up being smaller in weight than teno lmao

sinful cove
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he's supposed to be a pretty tough guy though i've heard

dusky surge
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oh yea

sinful cove
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i hope at least

dusky surge
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honey badger style

sinful cove
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not a blood bag this time

dusky surge
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might be small but can take shocking amounts of beating

sinful cove
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i liked playing cera in legacy but it was bad bad shape

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i could see cera having good bleed resist and damage heal to make up for his smaller health pool, or something else to make up for it

dusky surge
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cera SHOULD have bleed resist

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im sure a heard about it having loose skin

sinful cove
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bleed and venom resist

dusky surge
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the thing animals have irl to avoid being bled out and taking too much internal damage

sinful cove
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like a good few mustelids are venom resistant and he is compared to one

sinful cove
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stego should just be removed from carno diet and be in utah diet for large pack hunting, doesnt need a nerf. teno needs buffs and utah needs serious fixing

dusky surge
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Yea no clue why steg is in there lmao

hollow canyon
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Agreed, Stego's fine, Tenonto needs a buff and Utah needs some fixes

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one thing I'd personally buff about Utah is how high up it can pounce

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I'm quite convinced that a lot of cases where Utah's pounce doesn't connect is caused by it colliding with the ground due to how pathetic the pounce is in terms of the altitude that you reach

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even the tiniest slope can cause it to just go into the recovery animation

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This wouldn't of course solve the issue with Utah phasing through things but it might be worth giving a shot nevertheless

sinful cove
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id give utah a charged pounce personally, so it can adjust the range sort of like hypsi. the delay and pathetic range it has right now is laughable

hollow canyon
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If you were to charge it wouldn't it make it worse though?

dusky surge
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yea the range sucks

sinful cove
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if it could charge for more horizontal reach it would be cooler

hollow canyon
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If the range and altitude got better it could be a very delicate and not particularly oppressive buff that could potentially make Utah a much better playable

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Oh yea, I agree that's not a bad idea

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the question is how would you charge it exactly?

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Since Utah's pounce works as long as you hold RMB

sinful cove
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probably holding the key like hypsi holds space

dusky surge
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i wish the pounce could actually be used for ambush

sinful cove
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oh yeah uhh

hollow canyon
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Yea but Utah stops the pounce completely if you release it

sinful cove
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yeah i have no idea lol hmm... guess the whole function would have to be changed a bit

hollow canyon
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Perhaps it could be changed so that RMB charges it and then holding LMB causes it to release and as long as you hold LMB you will keep on pouncing

sinful cove
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maybe making the hold and release for the charge, and it needs to be hit again for release once it lands

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either or

hollow canyon
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Regardless I'd for now increase the pounce range and altitude and see how it goes from there

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I genuinely think that it even looks kind of bad with Utah having such a pathetic range on it

sinful cove
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did they ever fix inertia? because that was utah's second big issue

hollow canyon
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I think so

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I haven't felt it so strongly when I've played it 3 days ago

dusky surge
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i'd make pounce have more of a speed/distance as an actual jump

hollow canyon
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Btw pounce used to cover an enormous distance in the early instances of Evrima

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I remember using it to traverse terrain

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I'm not suggesting it should get back to that

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but giving it a bit of a buff in that department could potentially alleviate some of the issues this animal has

sinful cove
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wasnt pounce used to swim super fast too before

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i coulda sworn i saw that, it was hilarious

hollow canyon
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Idk about swimming, I've never used it for that

sinful cove
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like the old crouch in water exploit

hollow canyon
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But I did use it extensively to scale cliffs at one point

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I think the altitude is the most important thing about Utah's pounce

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walking up a hill shouldn't make someone completely immune to Utahs imo

barren oracle
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@peak pumice fr asked for a teno nerf

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And not a carno nerf

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Fr

surreal mulch
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Yea u could pounce in water was legit the only good thing about Utah lol no clue if they patched it

barren oracle
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Fr add climbing fb already so you don’t have to do some makeshift parkour to jump people

sinful cove
# barren oracle And not a carno nerf

Probably cus theyre a carno main who wants absolutely nothing resembling an obstacle to get in the way of their jurassic park superpredator fantasy headcanon

dusky surge
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did you know carno turns faster than pachy

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this is real

thin mantle
# dusky surge this is real

Logistically speaking Carno should turn faster than Pachy physiologically speaking, but the devs don’t actually know what a Carnotaurus was so they gave it an entirely mismatched niche

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The fact that Pachy turns slower than current Carno is insane to me

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It should retain that turn rate for when it’s charging a headbutt, but not for normal movement

dusky surge
#

eh

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im fine with pachy's turnrate

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my issue is with carno

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at least give pachy and carno similar turnrates

river nebula
#

If carno had pachys turn rate it’d make it a lot easier for Utah packs to take one down

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So I’d be fine with that honestly

thin mantle
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I still think it’s funny how attached the devs are to making Carno this slow turning missile, it’s so contrary to how it was in life

river nebula
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I fine with it being a slow turner only Bc if it didn’t turn slowly it’d be even more annoying then it is now

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Like imagine if carno had Utah levels of mobility

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That would be awful

thin mantle
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Cuz rn our Carno looks nearly identical to an irl Carno yet behaves completely differently

#

It’s such a mind fuck

river nebula
#

I don’t mind it honestly

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It’s not something that really bothers me

thin mantle
#

It bothers me because the way Carno is currently designed makes it’s ideal target a slower moving animal of similar size

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Charge is not an ability designed for small targets

dusky surge
thin mantle
dusky surge
#

exactly

thin mantle
#

Because they arbitrarily reduce its mobility drastically so they can justify making it strong

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Which makes no sense, you’re working with an incredibly unique animal and applying it’s actual niche to the in game animal actually solves a lot of balance issues

river nebula
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I would’ve liked for carno to keep the momentum dmg it was supposed to have and have it hp decreased so it was a more hit and run animal

thin mantle
#

Especially since charge anatomically makes no sense for a carnotaur

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It’s only in game because carnos have horns, they don’t actually have the physiology to use those horns like a bull or a bison

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Feels lazy

river nebula
#

I mean idc if carnos didn’t have the physiology to use the ram it’s a fun ability to use makes you feel like an actual “meat eating bull” as it’s name implies

#

I think the ram and just general stats of carno should certainly be toned down a bit or the other animals should be up to the standard carno seems to be at rn

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And by other animals I mean just Utah and tento

thin mantle
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Well it’s like giving ptera a bone break attack, just doesn’t make sense

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If you like it that’s fine

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But that’s irrelevant of the fact that a lot of carnotaur a natural traits that are relevant in the in game model are completely ignored so Carno fits more with its legacy counterpart, outside of that there’s no reason for Carno to handle like a freight train

barren oracle
#

Carno is completely fine as it is

#

Just a bad roster

fierce prairie
#

since pachy exist , carno is too weak he just need to hit you once and ur dead

barren oracle
#

Smh a carno can shitstomp a pachy

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if your dying to 1 or 2 there is something wrong

dusky surge
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"carno is too weak"

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what

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stop running straight at pachy

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that is literally how to not die to it

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carno is really really good

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so good, in fact, that its players have become really, really bad

barren oracle
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Carno is broken OP

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Fr its just run and win

dusky surge
#

and just fucking run in a straight line at any and everything

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including the one animal where the way to lose to it is run in a straight line at it

barren oracle
dusky surge
#

and when carno mains finally realised that there was an animal that can't be instantly killed by running in a straight line at it

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they call it OP and ask for a nerf

barren oracle
#

Carno mains after getting fractures for a while

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that was brutal

dusky surge
#

my top tip: literally find any other way to attack a fucking pachy

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like

#

come on man

barren oracle
#

behind

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beside

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ambush

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fr long list

dusky surge
#

they are extremely vulnerable to ambush

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you, a carno, have a better turn radius than it

hollow canyon
#

I don't think Carno does badly against Pachy however Pachy does rather well against most animals on the roster in general

#

This is likely due to fractures being not finished though

barren oracle
#

Pachy is busted rn

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mainly cause it makes no sound with ram

#

and can break all of its effective rosters bones

#

if you team with stegs what is anyone doin'

#

The only thing pachy should fear is a 5% deino

#

faster than it

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larger turn radius

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and it can grab em

hollow canyon
#

The fact that a single ram puts animals like Carno and Tenonto out of action is a bit questionable. It's fine with Carno because it can still bite even with its leg broken but making Tenonto unable to use its attacks while fractured is just kind of too good.

barren oracle
#

Teno is dog shit rn

#

no damage

#

no fractures

#

slower than everything

hollow canyon
#

Its tailslam should probably be given priority over the other special attacks

#

that + it should get a stamina cost buff for its attacks

barren oracle
#

tailslam needs so much more damage + fractures

hollow canyon
#

and maybe a damage buff to the tailslam

#

Oh no, tailslam doesn't need much more damage

barren oracle
#

It does 350

hollow canyon
#

It doesn't

barren oracle
#

wait thats pachy head ram

#

it does less

hollow canyon
#

pachy's headram doesn't do 350 either

barren oracle
#

It does i believe

hollow canyon
#

You'd be oneshotting Utahs with it

#

with a headshot

barren oracle
#

You do

hollow canyon
#

You don't you only take out roughly half the health of a Utah with a bodyshot

barren oracle
#

like up to 90% utahs get 1 shot to a headshot

hollow canyon
#

Pachy's ram does about as much damage as Tenonto's tailslam

#

90% is irrelevant

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it's only about full adults

barren oracle
#

pretty relevant since no utah ever has reached adult

hollow canyon
#

Rofl

#

that's just not true

#

I've reached full adult on my Utah when I last played on QA

#

I did it with first attempt too

unborn iris
#

Yeah. Utah may be the easiest thing to grow.

hollow canyon
#

It is easy, yea, it's just bad

barren oracle
#

so bad

primal dove
#

People playing pachy like it´s a fucking herbiraptor bc of how broken it is

#

on release it was weak after some patches decent and now it´s horribly broken

grave veldt
surreal mulch
dusky surge
#

i think the issue is pretty apparent

#

the fact the fractures are yet to scale

spare badger
#

I have yet to get into a server
How is pachy? I thought they said fractures weren't a death sentence but it seems like they still are

river nebula
#

The only buff pachy needs is a faster juvi speed no other buffs are needed honestly

dusky surge
#

agreed

#

pachy is really well off atm

wise sparrow
#

Watch they will nerf it when carno mains get mad that their prey can fight back. It happened to teno, it will happen to pachy.

hollow canyon
#

Teno could do a bit more than just "fight back"

calm ibex
#

then how about making run more stamina consuming, there fixed your endurance hunter teno

hollow canyon
#

It's been done

#

Tenonto's runtime took a hit, just like the runtime of every animal in 3.75

#

its damage was left unchanged there though, despite the fact that the hp pools and damage values for all the other animals went down

#

Utah used to require 3 bodyshots or 2 headshots from Tenonto's tailslam before that and went down to 2 bodyshots or 1 headshot after

#

Matter of fact 1 bodyshot would leave you with barely any health

#

Tenonto just had way too much damage considering the rest of the animals' health pools and damage values

dusky surge
#

Teno needs, imo, higher swimspeed, a fracture tool, a stun tool and a bleed tool (each assigned to a different move)

You could honestly keep the damage reduction and let teno just beat you so badly in every aspect it's better off leaving it alone

vagrant mural
dusky surge
#

low damage, cocktail of stauts effects

vagrant mural
#

That sounds agonizing

dusky surge
#

we already have claw as a bleed tool and we could simply turn either kick or tailslam into a fracture move

#

not too far from what we have now

#

honestly, scrap the higher stam suggestion

calm ibex
#

i'd just abandon this "brawler" teno, its gonna cause trouble down the line in terms of teno just chasing down similar tier animals and nuking em

dusky surge
#

high swimspeed is needed tho

#

it lives near water like most of the time

#

let it swim fast

vagrant mural
#

Doesn’t teno already have the highest swimming speed out of all the non deino animals

dusky surge
#

You would think so

#

But no

#

Not at all

vagrant mural
#

What does?

#

Wait

#

Actually Dryo is probably the best swimmer

golden coral
#

Didn't it have better swim speed?

dusky surge
#

wait nvm, it is by merely 300cm/hr faster

#

dryo having a close second

#

but dryo can also jump and run faster

#

so it can clear the river far more efficiently than a teno

primal dove
#

tail slam would be the fracture tool for me kick would deal some good stuns

dusky surge
golden coral
#

Anyway, I like the idea, front swipe = bleed, kick = fracture (especially until we get levels of it), and tailslam = stun. Though back kick should probs do a little bleed as well

vagrant mural
#

I’d rather the fracture be easier to land than the stun, so kick fracture

dusky surge
golden coral
#

No idea why you think the slam that has way better reach should be the fracture, makes far more sense for that to be the knockdown/stun, and the kick being the harder to land, but harder damage/result as well

#

Becasue fractures are better than stun/knockdown currently

dusky surge
golden coral
#

As we can see with Pachy, no need to even kill, break em and leave em to die if you want to see them suffer ^^

vagrant mural
#

Run and gun stuns are like my archenemy

#

Tail slam is easy to land if you practice, but baiting it and it animation locking exists

dusky surge
golden coral
#

Kick for fracture makes sense as well, something chasing you, kick it in the face and slow it down severely, makes that more dangerous

golden coral
#

Well, stun, more like knockdown on the smaller things anyway so

dusky surge
primal dove
#

ohh ohh monkey sounds I have an idea how teno should fight, u land a kick, stun ur foe and tailslam him and he gets fractured, if he still can catch up to u somehow u can claw him, forcing him to sit down and stop the chase.

#

smth like that idk

golden coral
primal dove
#

teno shouldn´t really kill its foes but more like heavily injure it with bleed

dusky surge
primal dove
#

not directly kill it

golden coral
#

It would be more effective to land a face fracture than a stun/knockdown