balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

the QA is also filled with toxic herbivore clan people so

[vagrant mural]

at least in terms of unnecesary mechanics

[alpine plover]

there’s always herbivore bias

[dusky surge]

I mean, the Isle seems to be on the opposite end

[vagrant mural]

trope makes me physically angry

[alpine plover]

90% of bob players are afk apato saichania mains anyways

[dusky surge]

New patch is pretty good for herbis tho, which is my fave part about it

[versed rune]

Playing BoB was unironically the most miserable experience i have ever had in any video game

[alpine plover]

If they removed it from the game I’m sure no one would complain

[versed rune]

It’s genuinely the worst video game I’ve ever played in life

And yeah fuck bird mains in bob

[alpine plover]

it’s sometimes fun, but that fun goes away when a 800.0 tropeo left clicks you

[vagrant mural]

I've played a decent amount of worse games

[versed rune]

I hopped on my icthyovenator ive had for months the other day and had to run away and log because a fucking pteranodon was taking out 20% of my hp per bite

[vagrant mural]

paid for creature, and too many no lifers main it

[alpine plover]

Good game design guys

[versed rune]

The only reason I LIVED was because I was semi aquatic and could dive deep enough to escape

If I was a megalo or a rex or anything else I would’ve died

[alpine plover]

It’s funny how trope has a water dart

[vagrant mural]

the fact they gave them darts to this day astounds me

[alpine plover]

are they really that biased

that they give a op injury machine a dart underwater

so aquatics aren’t even safe

[vagrant mural]

my friends lost 3 fresh adult rexes to a flock of tropes one time, it was actually painful to hear about

[alpine plover]

This is realistic guys trust me

[versed rune]

Why dinosaurs can grow anything beyond 1.2 is beyond me

[vagrant mural]

let me see if I can find the image that literally says that

[alpine plover]

actually, forget about realism. This is just about pure logic now

That physically cannot happen

yet it’s bob

so

[versed rune]

If you capped growth at 1.2 for all dinosaurs the game would be so much more tolerable

[alpine plover]

infinite growth destroys the game

8.0 combat apatos

[versed rune]

Creates a greasy elitist atmosphere

[vagrant mural]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/800468112578969611/855306187594924043/unknown.png

[alpine plover]

real life guys

[tacit oriole]

First and second place on my power ranking is herbivore atm

[alpine plover]

Soon as I read that I immediately stopped

[vagrant mural]

spinosaurids were able to launch into the atmosphere

[versed rune]

These people need to be euthanized

It’s for their own good

[alpine plover]

nothing about bob is realistic

[dusky surge]

ah yes, the aqua rex and flying itchy is just a stunning example of real life interactions

[versed rune]

Every carnivore in BoB sucks honestly

[alpine plover]

Krono definitely launched itself 300000 feet in the air, it did this guys!

[tacit oriole]

BoB is definitely on the arcade end of the spectrum, with some seriously janky mechanics trying to masquerade as realism

[vagrant mural]

pachy is a better carni than any of the actual carnis

[dusky surge]

not to mention the fact that pachy launches its opponents into the fucking sun

[versed rune]

But if they ever add carno to BoB it’ll prob be the equivalent of trope in terms of how op it is

Cause you know

Predatoria

[alpine plover]

Dinosauriac

[vagrant mural]

the devs want aram

I can only imagine the pain

[alpine plover]

I wonder if they’ll ever add carno

It would be really interesting tbh

[vagrant mural]

its on the favored list

not confirmed by the devs or paid for yet, but its a defenite possibility

[versed rune]

Holy shit. BoB hasn’t added a new dino in almost a year

Wtf

[alpine plover]

Isle carno will always be the best interpretation of carno

can’t beat it

Pce Carno is cool too, but then again it’s pce

[vagrant mural]

you just now noticed? they've been doing this for a while

[versed rune]

Fallen kingdom carno is beautiful

[alpine plover]

that one too

[versed rune]

Perfect blend between realism and awesomebro

[vagrant mural]

they keep doing remodels that arguably look worse than some of their current models

[alpine plover]

yeah utah is supposedly coming, but it’s been awhile now

forget the remodels, release utah

[vagrant mural]

the problem with utah is that it isn't paid for by a community member

[versed rune]

We need this for the isle

[vagrant mural]

which is their top priority for some reason

[versed rune]

No more JP utah bulllcrap

[alpine plover]

I wonder how rl utah would work in the isle

[vagrant mural]

it wouldn't

[alpine plover]

since carno is also a ambush predator

And can do it’s job

But better

[vagrant mural]

I'm all for the model change but utah would not stand a chance against any mid tier

[versed rune]

I was thinking more along the lines of “fuck realism, make utah function the same as it does now but give it that model”

[vagrant mural]

^

[alpine plover]

that would be cool

Not many people like feathers though

for some reason

[vagrant mural]

wrong

[alpine plover]

Shut up I’ll kill you

[versed rune]

People who like naked raptors more than feathered ones are incorrect

[vagrant mural]

feather fans are everywhere

[alpine plover]

Where

[vagrant mural]

in your mailbox

[versed rune]

feathered carno

[vagrant mural]

brb

[alpine plover]

I will look in my mailbox, it is currently 4 am this is a good idea

Feathered carno is no thanks

[vagrant mural]

hi

[sinful cove]

They should rename current utah to Skinraptor and see how many people still play it

[versed rune]

I’ve seen that one LOL

[alpine plover]

Kinda like it

For some reason

[versed rune]

I actually don’t mind the colors...

[alpine plover]

Pretty

[vagrant mural]

the colors ain't bad

I just find the mohawk ridiculous

[versed rune]

If it didn’t have the mowhawk it would be worse honestly

Because then it’d just be a feathered carno

[alpine plover]

Feathered carno is just uncanny

[vagrant mural]

side profile

[alpine plover]

Full body doesn’t look too bad actually

[versed rune]

At least with the mowhawk it shows the artist INTENDED for it to look bizarre

Without it it’s just feathered carno and that’s a no no

[vagrant mural]

also didn't carno get like an integument change or something

[versed rune]

It’s suspension of disbelief really

[versed rune]

That i word is too big for me

[vagrant mural]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/776862086160056320/875881402007158864/unknown.png?width=1298&height=670

yeah it looks different now

[versed rune]

Oh yeah I saw that on Twitter today

Basically just a skin description

[vagrant mural]

yeah no more neat rows

[alpine plover]

Yes

[vagrant mural]

amazing

[tacit oriole]

It would probably have a thicker neck though, like a seal or penguin

[mental roost]

Does anyone else ever wish that Stego would get an attack that's not so awkward and clumsy??

[tacit oriole]

Not really, seems to fit the bill for me

It's not exactly a graceful animal

[alpine plover]

stegosaurus is the size of a rhinoceros, perhaps even a bit bigger

[mental roost]

Read my message again.. But slowly.

It's bigger than a Rhino, but that's not really a good reason for its primary defense to feel so weird(ei, camera shenanigans.. more control over tail swings would be nice.. and an actual swing instead of the Poke of death

[tacit oriole]

Uh... Rhino is 2.3 t, stego is 6t. Stego is significantly bigger

[mental roost]

||I honestly used to think that a Rhino was only 2 tons....Well that's interesting to know..||

[tacit oriole]

Males up to 2.3 females up to 1.7

[mental roost]

I knew Rhinos were big, just not that big, rip.. Learn something new at least... Still wish Stego's attacks could see some improvements(rearrange controls, and rework the back swing... ei, hold alt + left or right click as a call back to the original tail swing, so the camera still plays a part but the side is different.. if that makes sense(offers more freedom of camera.. and can take that further with a light swing or something for the default..-le shrug-. . I'd like to not have my swings miss when I know I can hit something but end up swinging the wrong way..

Just asking for more control and less clunk(Deino's alt bite is much smoother in comparison..outside of being really good, even with its THANKFULLY new stamina drain)

[carmine charm]

To be honest i dont know why is there so much difference between day and night cycle. Is there any reason DEVS?

[alpine plover]

Whenever I enter the server, the window to select a dinosaur does not appear, but it bounces off the server. What should I do?
Am I Banned?

[tacit oriole]

When you say bounces - do you mean you are back at the title menu? You may be banned if so, or the server may be full. This is not the channel to be asking for help with evrima bugs either way. Perhaps consider #723294838610722847 if it's a bug?

[hallow spire]

@cedar shore agreed the fights seem less exciting imo

[cedar shore]

The thing is, now that its so much harder to take on different matchups, players will simply not do it, making gameplay very stale and booring for that dino

Like utahs should have a chance to take on stegos so they at least try, it will make gameplay much more interresting for the raptors that have to work together in an intense fight and the stego who was to defend itself from multiple smaller carnivores

[proper zephyr]

I don’t mean to sound rude, but maybe give your reasons as to why it’s unenjoyable in your feedback message
yeah I think some things were thrown out of wack this update, but just saying that it’s less enjoyable and nothing else isn’t really helping the devs without reasons

[winged bison]

How much damage does a steggo tail attack do? Is it still 1000 or is it different now? If it was in patch notes I missed it

[tacit oriole]

It now does 1250, it used to do 1300

So I'm seeing some weird stuff with blood regen - every 10% below full takes twice time that the previous 10% took

e.g. for a teno, 90->100 is 1:12, 80->90 is 2:23, 70->80 is 4:48. Or, to put it another way, 90->100 is 1:12, 80->100 is 3:36, 70->100 is 6:01

(standing, sitting is half that time, and no difference between standing and walking/trotting/sprinting)

Which implies that blood quantity affects regen rate in addition to stamina

[oak wind]

I feel like

a lot of people do not get the current balance that's good but actually not because of power gapes.

[tacit oriole]

I feel like theres a lot of people doing armchair maths to work out balance rather than actually playing and experiencing it

For those curious, food and water does NOT affect blood regen rate

[oak wind]

Thing is that, Stego isn't meant to be hunted by any predators in the roster.

Utah isn't meant to hunt a lot of animals in the roster as well.

[primal dove]

but how fast u lose it tho

[oak wind]

I can see problems for Carno's alt.

[dusky surge]

@chrome marsh was a nerf to utah needed? perhaps. did it deserve to be gutted and left to die? Absolutely not

[tacit oriole]

Saying "The current balance isn't an issue because that is the way it is meant to be" is circular logic of the worse kind

[chrome marsh]

instant reply MOMENT LOL

[oak wind]

Utah is now a smaller prey hunter and a large animal hunter, except Tyreophoras.

It could go for slower Hadrosaurs.

[primal dove]

not in the current one but at least some teno and carno maybe that´s enough stego if u are a really experienced and coordinated group kind of like an endboss

[oak wind]

But we don't have them

[dusky surge]

Utah can't bleed, it can't damage, it can't tank

[chrome marsh]

yall just diodnt see how scuffed utah was before. lmao. period

[dusky surge]

Okay, yea

Utah was not the best before

But now?

It deserved the nerf but not destruction

[chrome marsh]

surviving at it is fine, you can get away from things you can fight enough things to gain food.

[oak wind]

If Solo, don't go for larger animals. Even in packs, mediums are bad things to attack as it is meant to be.

[tacit oriole]

If you want to prove Utah is viable: Hit us with a VoD real quick of them killing something that isn't a dryo or a noob

[oak wind]

Current mid are anti smaller animals as well'

[primal dove]

what triggers me the most is that the current bleed has only little to do with the bleed we have in the roadmap

[chrome marsh]

hunt in a pack, dont be a pepega in fight and ur fine.

everyone malding now thta utah reqcuires briancells

[dusky surge]

I'm not saying it should solo things, I'm saying it needs SOMETHING to make it worth playing more than carno

[chrome marsh]

like unironically this is just purely dumb.

[tacit oriole]

Still yet to see a utah pack kill anything

[oak wind]

More preys.

[tacit oriole]

servers are just stegos and tenos now

[chrome marsh]

me seeing pack kill carno 😳

[tacit oriole]

VoD kgo

[primal dove]

uTah sO brOkeN thEy jUst pOunCE mE caN´T do anYthING -most of the stego players U3

[oak wind]

Ava, Dryos, thing a bit smaller and very larger animals like Para.

[tacit oriole]

Don't justify current balance on 2023 roster

[oak wind]

I mean

[dusky surge]

Dryos legit can just outrun a fucking utah lmao. Best you can do is a hypsi

[oak wind]

That's what Utah is meant to go as Solo

I mean.

Ambush Dryo

[primal dove]

or the ai

[oak wind]

Pounce it

[tacit oriole]

Step 1. Have players roll dryo

wait...

[dusky surge]

Carns are faster, stronger, healtheir and better at killing 75% of the roster

[oak wind]

They're meant to kill smaller animals for now.

Alt is just too strong.

[tacit oriole]

What smaller animals?

Dryo? aint nobody playing dryo

[oak wind]

Utah, Dryo, juveniles, Tenonto.

[cedar shore]

@chrome marsh no

[chrome marsh]

i sleep/

[tacit oriole]

Still waiting on that VoD of a utah pack making a kill

[cedar shore]

There is so much counterplay for utahs they never needd a nerf in the first place

[dusky surge]

"Utah is meant to kill smaller animals". Then play carno. Utah is "meant" to be a pack hunter that takes down larger targets, and the damage nerf was a step in the right direction, but the bleed reduction was straightup stupid

[oak wind]

Utah needed a nerf

Before it was overtuned health wise

[dusky surge]

Health and damage nerf I understand and agree with

[tacit oriole]

Tell you what. I'll go teno, you and 5 other utahs try and kill me. I'm a pretty poor teno too

[chrome marsh]

utah bbeing put into its niche now, now people cant kill apexes now anymore wah wah

[oak wind]

Had good damages as well

Also stamina.

Didn't need to have Stam and speed.

[chrome marsh]

utah is finally what its supposed to be now.
the malding is funny

[oak wind]

Speed and agility is enough.

[cedar shore]

Realism will allways be a bad argument for game design

[dusky surge]

Wasn't the point of utah being a big-game hunter that in packs, COULD take down apexes?

[tacit oriole]

Hell I watched a teno 1v3 carnos

[dusky surge]

lmao

[oak wind]

Bruh

[chrome marsh]

not realism.

what was planned for utah before L;MAO

[primal dove]

the thing is tho the packs are desinged to take on bigger stuff u goddamn rex main

[dusky surge]

Carno has more speed, and the recent turn changes weaken utah's agility

[chrome marsh]

not even a rex main

[primal dove]

still acting like 1 tho ngl

[tacit oriole]

Still waiting on proof that utahs can kill a decent solo anything bigger

[cedar shore]

Utah was never planned to only take on small dinos, its pounce was spesificly designed so you could latch onto bigger dinosaurs.

[chrome marsh]

utah packs can vioably kill a carno, carno being the apex of the roster atm next to stego so whats your point

[cedar shore]

no they cant

[chrome marsh]

oh we could

[primal dove]

source/proof/vod

gimme

[chrome marsh]

dryo moment

[dusky surge]

I've never ever seen such a thing, more often I find carnos causing the most disruption, but the hateboner for utah runs deep here. You cannot convince them that utah didn't deserve it because they believe utah should be soft removed

[cedar shore]

I was on mrDbears testing server and we barely managed to kill 1 carno 6v1.

[chrome marsh]

dont rlly have them, but ill enjoy the crying 👍

utah recquires braincells now, like it should. get over it

[oak wind]

Carno is meant to destroy Utah anyway. Utah just have to slide, dodge and try to get away as Carno has a worse stamina.

[dusky surge]

Glad carno mains still don't have to use their brains lmao

[primal dove]

then ur arguments dont make sense since u cant prove them

[cedar shore]

Utah has allways required strategy, you just want an easier time against them dont you?

[oak wind]

Islecord

[dusky surge]

Of course, only utah should use their brain because IT is the only braindead dino in this game

[oak wind]

[chrome marsh]

pressing right click is strategy? Okay lol

[tacit oriole]

I'm in a private server right now where we have 8 utahs trying to kill two tenos, and they got absolutely wrecked over and over

[chrome marsh]

[oak wind]

Yes

[cedar shore]

Carno, thats littearly just carno

[oak wind]

They're not meant to hunt Teborno

[cedar shore]

just biting everything

[chrome marsh]

talking abt pounce

[oak wind]

Tenonto

[tacit oriole]

and we were shit tenos

[dusky surge]

Harder than pressing left click as carno hahaha

[oak wind]

Tenonto is a small tier counter

It destroys them

[chrome marsh]

nothing recquires strategy. combat is still as bland as it was before

[dusky surge]

At least pressing RMB has penalty if you miss

[tacit oriole]

They faired no better against carnos fyi.

[primal dove]

not just pressing it but when and how to, baiting stuff keeping the bleed on, stamina management the list goes on

[safe anchor]

utah was way over tuned it got smacked hard with the nerf bat it might be a little too much right now but everything can be adjusted everything is a wip

[cedar shore]

You clearly arent in this game for the combat, thats probably the stupides take ive herd in a while

[chrome marsh]

synergy coming in with the facts

[dusky surge]

Admit you hate utah and move on, I don't love utah but I like game design. What they did to utah is literally such a hard nerf it completely invalidates the animal when compared to the infinitely superior carno

[cedar shore]

hope so

[chrome marsh]

i still believe its fine rn, but it was way overtuned before.

[tacit oriole]

So lets see: Utah Pack vs Teno (wrecked) carno (wrecked) stego (wrecked) dryo (don't exist) Deino (waterboys) Ptera (flying) Hypsi (don't exist)

[cedar shore]

Test it man, test it...

[tacit oriole]

Tell me again what they are meant to kill

[chrome marsh]

i did my dear

[cedar shore]

how tho?

[chrome marsh]

its been 14 hours, i am alive and well.

[tacit oriole]

And no, you can't say "utahs are only allowed to kill solo babies"

[oak wind]

But they finally designed Utah for what it was meant to be. It just doesn't have the prey items rn.

[dusky surge]

I agree utah was overtuned, this is fair, however, I do not believe it needed to become a worse bleeder, worse dodger, damage dealer and tank all at once

[chrome marsh]

14 hrs ive been awake and playing btw.

[dusky surge]

What prey items?

[chrome marsh]

shows how scuffed this roster is

[cedar shore]

Thats not an exuse to make it completely unviable. "Because it doenst have prety items"

[primal dove]

tell me what was so overtuned with the utah in update 3?

[tacit oriole]

The proof is in the pudding. I'll DM my server, you put your money where your mouth is, and show me.

[chrome marsh]

its viable. you can survive easily.
its so easy to tell you all just want to kill things oput of your league

[oak wind]

Ava, Galli. In packs Pachy, Maia, Para and such animals.

[tacit oriole]

'cos I've not yet seen a utah group who can get squat done.

[chrome marsh]

also this

[tacit oriole]

If that is all they are supposed to hunt then leave the nerf until they are in the game

[cedar shore]

Let the game be fun come on. If you guys want to play a game where everyone runs around as medium and large dinosaurs then i understand your point. Because right now noone wants to play small tier dinosaurs

[chrome marsh]

tfw not even full roster, yet ppl want to kill stego and carno when its not supposed to be their prey

[dusky surge]

All carno prey also, small game are all carno prey. I think, unless they properly decide what they want with utah, it will always be an inferior carno

[tacit oriole]

Utahs can't eat imaginary future roster items my dudes.

[cedar shore]

Sounds like you are balancing the game off realism, bad idea...

[oak wind]

Maia and Para aren't btw.

As Carno's preys.

[primal dove]

HOW CAN WE SURVIVE IF WE CANT KILL ANYTHING. I dont get ur point tbh

[chrome marsh]

lmao you coming with the realism when that aint even the case

[oak wind]

That's why a roadmap rework is kinda needed.

[chrome marsh]

my baby utah reliably killing adult dryos.

go off

[cedar shore]

then how on earth is utahs not beeing able to kill larger prey while in a medium sized pack good balance?

[chrome marsh]

my adult utah reliably killing things in a pack.

pop off

[primal dove]

wait do u mean a solo utah shouldn´t be able to kill a carno or a pack of utahs shouldnt be able to?

[tacit oriole]

So what @chrome marsh and @oak wind are basically saying is: Don't play utah until some future patch when they actually have prey. Solid balancing, 10/10

[oak wind]

But mid tiers are anti Utah.

[safe anchor]

i mean the pack hunter utah was able to solo a steggo if you knew what you was doing.you can no longer do this which is a good thing it just needs more adjustment.you need to look at it this way if you change one number you are effecting how that one creature fights everything else in the roaster

[chrome marsh]

yall just malding

i sleep/

[cedar shore]

Im gonna need proof of that sheesh

[oak wind]

I mean, buff it then nerf it again if ya want.

[chrome marsh]

utah was scuffed as fuck before and yet ppl cried abt it being shit alrdy. shows.

[tacit oriole]

Yes, make it an actual viable pick until it has a niche to fill. At the moment, under your own admission, it is soft-removed from the game.

[oak wind]

Why would you do tweak again Utah for things it isn't meant to go for to then change again?

[primal dove]

we are trying to balance things, u are just going for ur playstyle and harass us. Go out

[dusky surge]

They literally added the new dismount to make utah BETTER at hunting stegos, it seems to me that a choice cannot be made on if utah is a baby killer small-game hunter or a pack based large-game hunter

[tacit oriole]

Nobody is interested in your personal attacks meygops.

[chrome marsh]

utah was NOT balanced before LMAO

[cedar shore]

Can we all just agree that this update make the game less enjoyable? It pretty much eliminated allmost all of smaller dinosaurs

[chrome marsh]

like unironicaly this aint even funny.

[primal dove]

u can still be hit tho lmao

i can VOD proof

[chrome marsh]

its enjoyable to me, at least

[frosty heron]

Getting killed because I'm using my main mechanic, is a big signal of shit playable imo

[dusky surge]

No one here is saying utah was perfect how it was, people are saying it was done too dirty

[oak wind]

I mean, her playstyle is how Utah is supposed to be : either an ambush hunter of smaller prey items or an endurance hunter or huge animals.

[chrome marsh]

^^^^

[cedar shore]

Is a game without small dinosaurs more fun than with?

[safe anchor]

things change all the time in game development

[oak wind]

Just, it isn't good against mid tiers because : Tenonto is anti small tiers, Carno is small tier predator.

Also Stego is an anti flanker.

[tacit oriole]

Again, "It is that way because it is meant to be that way" is just circular logic.

[oak wind]

Utah is a flanker.

[dusky surge]

I know, I was the Lead Game Designer for another game lmao

[cedar shore]

I just hope the devs make the right decicion in the next update to get the utah playerbase back up again

[tacit oriole]

Still waiting on someone to show proof that utahs can kill a competent adult anything bigger.

[oak wind]

TI only have Utah and Dryo for now.

[safe anchor]

oh cool which game?

[dusky surge]

SCP:SL

[cedar shore]

uhh what?

[chrome marsh]

tldr, full roster isnt in yet,
So balance will always change
utah is a pack hunter, and can reliably kill small tiers and more up,
carno and stego shouldnt be on its food list.
utah can get away from things, if needed to, nothing has to be instantly killed, fights should take time and not be done in seconds.

[dusky surge]

SCP: Secret Laboratory

I was the lead game designer, ask any staff member you want

[tacit oriole]

Except that it can't and nobody is playing it as a result

[chrome marsh]

than my experience is ✨ special ✨

[tacit oriole]

Show us your VoDs.

[chrome marsh]

im not a streamer

[oak wind]

Look on her steam and see how much she had played.

[chrome marsh]

i may be purple but for other reasons

LMAO levi

[oak wind]

Emotes

[tacit oriole]

🤔

[oak wind]

'STEAM*

Not

[chrome marsh]

levi is memeing, we know each other

[oak wind]

Stream

Ye

[chrome marsh]

1.3 hrs lol

*k

[oak wind]

Lmfao

[tacit oriole]

Still doesn't provide proof.

[chrome marsh]

im just saying my opinion

[tacit oriole]

I could of spent 1000 hours in legacy as well, and it wouldn't count

[primal dove]

then make it one

[frosty heron]

This update is everything roleplayers wished for

[chrome marsh]

utah is a flanker now tho wh

[oak wind]

It is one. A flanker for large animals that aren't Tyreophoras.

[tacit oriole]

This is just turning into bickering. The proof is in the quantity of utahs you now see on official servers, and it is virtually non-existant

[cedar shore]

I feel like people want the utah nerf because they kept dying to it because they didnt know how to counterplay it

[frosty heron]

Utah isn't a flanker. It's a piece of meat right now

[dusky surge]

lets not use hours as an argument lmao

[oak wind]

It goes for large animal flanks. Heavy ones like multiple tons such as Maiasaura, Para and possibly Shant.

[chrome marsh]

i saw enough utahs play tbf,
but literally i guess im the only one

[primal dove]

it doesnt have enough mobility or agility like a dryo sidestep jump to be counted as a flanker

[tacit oriole]

We all have our own experience, and when it disagrees with you, we want more than just your word to change our minds.

[chrome marsh]

was hiding from some, and thexy just didnt see me like pepegas, when i was right next to them lmao

[oak wind]

It is. Just it has an anti flanker as an apex, 2 medium being anti small tiers.

That's the problem. Utah is in its niche but it doesn't have what it needs to go for. So it feels bad.

[chrome marsh]

^^

again, roster isnt full, therefore the niche cant be fully filled

[oak wind]

If they change again Utah

[tacit oriole]

Right. So it doesn't have prey and is not viable in the game.

Hence

[chrome marsh]

diets, full roster etc etc,

[oak wind]

It will need to be changed over again

[tacit oriole]

utah is trash

[frosty heron]

Nice Balanced ecosystem we have right? Seems like people actually enjoys Utah being trash

[oak wind]

Add them.

Add Pachy.

[tacit oriole]

I'll get right on that one, brb

[oak wind]

Add other animals.

[chrome marsh]

doesnt mean utah should be like before where 2 utahs can reliably kill a stego, an apex

[oak wind]

Don't go full small roster or medium.

[tacit oriole]

Or - and hear me out - maybe DON'T nerf it into the ground before it's actual prey has been added? Crazy.... crazy... but just maybe

[frosty heron]

Which have been a problem since the beginning, people has PTSD with Legacy Utah and they want the playable to just be useless

[oak wind]

Add Para, add Maia, Add Allo, Add Styraco, Add Acro, Add Galli, Add Pachy and such animals.

Power gapes will be filed.

New interesting playables.

[tacit oriole]

I'm glad we all came to an agreement, though. Utah is soft-removed from the game right now.

[primal dove]

6 utahs should be able to tho and not just some utahs but a coordinated experienced pack in a VC

[chrome marsh]

anyway 14 hrs have been killing me,
time to

[frosty heron]

Easier said than done, Utah will stay in the trash can for at least 5 extra updates

[oak wind]

That's why devs should rework their plans on their future additions.

Add what they need.

As they've already said.

[dusky surge]

i hate how utah is being made out to be a smallgame hunter, because you guys are giving it the position of "carno-lite". It needs to have SOME kind of larger game utility

[oak wind]

Yeah. Large Hadrosaurs.

Then mid tiers are bad plans.

[golden coral]

How many utahs have you seen lately, on officials that is? And in relation to other things you've seen, if you know that too?

[primal dove]

they are all small pachy oneshots maia outruns them allo is allo

[dusky surge]

The best I see happening with utah is it becoming the designated human hunter, since its entire toolkit basically is designed to fuck up humans

[frosty heron]

There was a time where Utahs were deadly pack hunters, now I can just pick Carno and laught at them

[tacit oriole]

Yesterday, lots of starving ones getting minced by everything. Today, basically none.

[oak wind]

Allo is Styraco/Para possible predator

[primal dove]

and apexes in a pack at least

[tacit oriole]

I ran at a group eating another utah as a teno and they scattered like mice. It was like wtf?

Since when is teno an apex?

[dusky surge]

Nah, apparently according to some in this chat, utah is not meant to hunt apexes, only babies and small game

[golden coral]

I do think that utahs and others it's size are supposed to be a terror for humans yes. Up to carno maybe, I don't think much bigger will be as much of a threat, since they might not be able to enter compounds and can be aimed at a lot easier.. :p

[primal dove]

in a pack?! just think about it, food problems

[dusky surge]

Yep, very confusing lmao

Apparently utah is not meant to kill anything bigger than it

[primal dove]

yea, sadly

[tacit oriole]

Utahs are just land deino. Scavanging, the occasional noob, and cannibalism.

[chrome marsh]

scrawny 450kg rat

[golden coral]

Well then utah needs to be redesigned. I've always seen it as the one small one designed to punch up really well.

[frosty heron]

Big part of the community hates Utah don't expect anything good for it

[frosty heron]

See, best example

[primal dove]

everyone thinks if we want buffs for utah that we should be able to 1v2 fucking rexes or shit like that

[chrome marsh]

if utah was like its rl form, then sure go ahead

but our utah is a scrawny rat , designed to be a pack hunter

[primal dove]

the assriding made some deep wounds on them

[chrome marsh]

and not the chunktah solo hunter

wish we had chonky utah ngl. but we stuck with the jp ripoff

[primal dove]

that´s exactly my point

[frosty heron]

As I said, they have PTSD with Legacy Utah

[primal dove]

absolute facts

[chrome marsh]

false.

[oak wind]

Not all apexes

[chrome marsh]

again though, our utah isnt chunkytah.
sio it shouldnt be played like one.

[golden coral]

To be fair, that's understandable. :p

[tacit oriole]

Look, when I was doing number gathering I thought Utah had a chance. Their pounce combined with new blood pools looked actually viable. But their one tool - pounce - is so stupidly easy to counter and prevent they just have nothing. It's like having Civil War militiamen in WW3

[primal dove]

i also dont liked it, as an utah main

[chrome marsh]

assriding was a problem on non alt only

[frosty heron]

"There was a time where a NiMbLe rat Ootah assride my Trike and yet I'm still hurt about its loss, Utah should burn in hell"

[chrome marsh]

and non alt, was simply misconception of combat.

[tacit oriole]

^

[primal dove]

so a shant should just be able to turn in place ig

[chrome marsh]

its doable.

[golden coral]

So the statement about 3 utahs vs a teno or carno is no good? You said something like that not too long ago so.

[primal dove]

sure, but not like the legacy alt turn

[chrome marsh]

omg non alters in chat

[tacit oriole]

Yup, I did, and I was completely wrong sadly. It looked like it would work on paper but reality... maybe against a solo player away from trees, but as soon as you get a pair they are powerless

[frosty heron]

I also don't understand why having a JP ripoff is an issue, devs decisions should be respected

On terms of design, Isle never has meant to be a paleoaccurate dinosaur game

Just check on having humans or the existence of strains

[chrome marsh]

its an issue, because everyone plays utah as the solo hunter it was irl.

and not like the scrawny jp knockoff it is

[golden coral]

No, it should have proper attacks and trample really. The problem with alt/no alt was that there was no other way, barring either tricks (including stop-stomping that with collision should not be a thing, as we've seen with deino/stego), and envrionment. But of course "alt spinning" is stupid for everyone, not just the large animals. It's so much better in Evrima with proper movement for everything.

[chrome marsh]

either play it like its meant to be.

or change it to solo chionktah ( real chad )

which is- not happening

[primal dove]

the whole isle is just a human created closement, breeding and changing dinos DNA for war I believe

[tacit oriole]

Don't get me wrong, lost blood takes ages to replace - and the stamina regen sucks - but utah pounce dismount still isn't safe and you can't reliably cycle through a target

[frosty heron]

Give us a Indoraptor so I can solo animals far bigger than me and make them go salty

[chrome marsh]

it was said utah dismount should get faster iirc? which i can agree can be a tad faster

but thats the only change i could accept

[golden coral]

I think they're still working on the dismount at least. It should be done properly.

[tacit oriole]

It is better, but still not good enough atm

[chrome marsh]

its still rather slow

[primal dove]

change the bleed, it is nowhere near the one described in the trello

[chrome marsh]

my guy be yawning and stretching before getting up

[golden coral]

The bleed in general you mean?

[frosty heron]

Sad part is Stego has enought reach that it still capable of killing Utahs on dismount, which is kinda lame

[tacit oriole]

In a low-lag environment where everyone has low ping it mostly works, but hop on NA1 with people with 200+ ping and it's another story

[chrome marsh]

dont be a dumb utah, and dismolunt before getting bucked off

pounce should still be punishable

if done wrong

[frosty heron]

When I said bucked off?

[tacit oriole]

We aren't talking about falling off, we are talking about a supposed safe dismount

[frosty heron]

You can get killed on normal dismount Lol

[chrome marsh]

what. just run

how

lmao how

[frosty heron]

Oh you need video proof of that it seems

[chrome marsh]

how long did it take you to run

[tacit oriole]

You can't start running straight away

there is 1/4 sec where you aren't moving at all, completing the animation, then usually there is about 0.5s of forced trot

[chrome marsh]

idk i was able to get away, i didnt continue my fight tho with the steg

[tacit oriole]

that is more than enough for a teno to turn and slash

or a stego to tail swipe you

remembering 90 degree swipes are quicker than normal ones

[chrome marsh]

then the stego had a bad attentiuon span

[golden coral]

Would it be better with a touch more distance and no "stun" on landing then?

[chrome marsh]

[tacit oriole]

Lots of noob stegos on atm. New apex.

[chrome marsh]

like utah.

lots of noob utahs aswell

[frosty heron]

@chrome marsh https://youtu.be/E2dHlyO4slI

Can you please check minute 20:50

[chrome marsh]

tehres smart stegos, and smart utahs.
i barely see smart utahs tho

[tacit oriole]

yes, but my statements are around experienced players in an artificial sandbox server, not randoms in survival

[hollow canyon]

I'm not sure why you guys are talking about some PTSD to do with the legacy. Utah in Evrima's been better than Utah in the legacy at least until the first patch after update 3 was released.

[chrome marsh]

lmao vid shows you can get away easily enough

u just have find a dumb stego

[tacit oriole]

Like I said. Spent hours trying to make it work and couldn't. Survival servers have matched my testing.

[frosty heron]

How is that possible, Legacy Utah was 1v1 everything except certain playables

[chrome marsh]

or play smart

survival is priority rn btw,

not the sandbox shit

[hollow canyon]

The only playable that legacy Utah could 1v1 in my experience was Dilo?(and Maybe Dryo and some other stuff like that).

[frosty heron]

You just said a dumb thing, you can judge a Stego by just looking at it unless it starts to swing like a dumbass to the air

[hollow canyon]

You could kill a Carno too I guess or a Cerato but neither of those was a Utah-favoured match up

[chrome marsh]

everything ive read so far sounds dumb aswell 😄

[frosty heron]

It could kill Rexes, Gigas and far more stuff on non alt servers

[hollow canyon]

Admittedly Cerato was not good at actually hunting Utahs either

Ah, no-alt turn servers

[chrome marsh]

like to people stego players are aperantly dumb, so whats the problem,

it still baffles me that people genuienly believe they should take on a stego.

[frosty heron]

And even on alt it had far more prey options that could kill with ease, even as solo

[hollow canyon]

That wasn't the intended experience of the game but tbh I've died to Utahs only once on a not alt turn server when I was very new to the game

[tacit oriole]

We are only talking about stego because YOU said utahs could hunt them.

[hollow canyon]

Past that point I haven't had any issues handling them as an apex

[chrome marsh]

i didnt.

[hollow canyon]

or mid tier for that matter

[chrome marsh]

where did i say that

[frosty heron]

You will be surprised the amount of Stegos that actually think what they're doing

[chrome marsh]

i said you can get away from a stego reliably.

[hollow canyon]

I only really feared them as a Dilo because it's just a bad match up for Dilo

[chrome marsh]

not that you can take on it

[tacit oriole]

Dis you?\

[chrome marsh]

before the update

[frosty heron]

Neither did I on non alt servers

[chrome marsh]

read. please.

[hollow canyon]

Yea so I really don't think Utah was that good in the legacy

[chrome marsh]

utah before these current updates, could reliably kill a stego.

[hollow canyon]

it was just infuriatingly fast

making them unhuntable to pretty much the entire roster of carnivores

Allo and Carno were pretty much the only two that posed a threat to them out of carnivores

[frosty heron]

I'm still thinking Legacy Utah was absurdly OP compared to the fragile shit we have now

[hollow canyon]

I think legacy Utah is pretty meh compared to Utah up to first patch after update 3

now Utah is a bit too weak imo

[chrome marsh]

utah was ok in legacy sorta.
it could kill shit that it shouldnt kill, but its, legacy utah is kinda hard to pinpoint imo

[hollow canyon]

although I disagree with the statements that there are no Utahs - I literally spawn in and bump into them even now

[chrome marsh]

legacy was a fuckfest anyway

[true sonnet]

Is utah realy that weak

[chrome marsh]

utahs are everywhere

the 'there are no utah' doesnt apply to me

[tacit oriole]

What server?

[hollow canyon]

It's a bit too weak vs Tenonto, its inertia might be too slightly too high atm

[chrome marsh]

eu 4

kinda every eu

tbf

[tacit oriole]

I want to see this. Hopping on

'cos NA is deserted as far as utahs are concerned

[hollow canyon]

I'm hearing a Utah and a juv Deino next to me I think I'm on EU6

I'm a Utah too

[chrome marsh]

yuh

[frosty heron]

I mean people will still pick Utah, there's lots of people who doesn't even know what the patch did to them, and also there's people who will just pick it because it can jump on rocks

[tacit oriole]

Yeah, seen lots of utahs who don't know that bite does nothing

[frosty heron]

But a person who actually wants to survive and pick something it can fight, you go for something else like Carno

[chrome marsh]

its kinda good it needs to rely on its unique mechanic now

[tacit oriole]

When I was teno there was a whole pack trying to headbite me down... like dudes I can just slash you twice and you gotta bail

[frosty heron]

Fun as fuck to base all the combat on just spamming pounces, hella fun yes...

[hollow canyon]

I don't think its biteforce should've been nerfed this much

[chrome marsh]

better than utah spam biting

very fun, epic comnat

woww

[hollow canyon]

I'd personally bring it up to ~75-85N for now and see where it goes from there

[frosty heron]

At least that required sort of skill

[chrome marsh]

LOL

skill

right

[tacit oriole]

Sure eu4? 23/100?

[frosty heron]

You don't seem like someone who actually played Utah don't you

[hollow canyon]

Yea I don't think it's EU4, I've been there testing Tenonto for a bit and the server was pretty empty

[chrome marsh]

im not playing anymore.
but it was fuller before yea

again 14 hrs

[frosty heron]

You joking right?

[primal dove]

in which case did an utah ever spam bite in evrima . Everything oneshots you going for bites before and after this update is a death sentence

[chrome marsh]

people dont read what i say ig

2nd time now, people misconcept what i say

[frosty heron]

I thought it wasn't for real

[chrome marsh]

i

did not sleep

[tacit oriole]

I'll try and get on EU6 and go utah. I would be super extra happy to be proven wrong, I have a soft-spot for utah

[hollow canyon]

As I said - I can hear one next to me and I'm another Utah

[chrome marsh]

one single bitd

[hollow canyon]

I've just started growing though

young Deino and young Carno are somewhere nearby too

[chrome marsh]

just so i can play utah long enough to come to the realizaion i survive just fine

[hollow canyon]

I might try to go for the Carno when I get to 50% growth and see how that goes

[chrome marsh]

which balance should be around-

survival

not battleground pvp 24/7

dipping from a fight isnt loo

[tacit oriole]

most people want to fight, not hide in bushes

[chrome marsh]

omg i cant type

losing*

[tacit oriole]

we get what you mean

[chrome marsh]

too bad this game isnt purely pvp

[hollow canyon]

I think I'm hearing 3-4 Utahs now, one north from me and 2 or 3 to the south. You might want to spawn in the centre

[tacit oriole]

For most people fighting it the axle which the game revolves around

Eating and drinking in TI is like looting buildings in PubG

[chrome marsh]

wip game, not even full roster

[tacit oriole]

it's a mechanic, but not the point

[chrome marsh]

diets will change things.
more playables will change things

what we have rn, is not even a scratch of the full thing

[tacit oriole]

Which is fine, we are all ok with that. But it needs to be balanced around what we have now not will have later

[chrome marsh]

utah most likely will go thru 100 buffs and nerfs again

but it is

[tacit oriole]

If utahs need to be shifted a tier up to be viable in this roster well... that's a better solution than soft-removing

[frosty heron]

Ffs, who the fuck doesn't launches Isle Evrima today to log on and start killing stuff? It's the current state of the game

[chrome marsh]

balanced around now

[frosty heron]

Don't tell me people logs in to play bush eater simulator and chat with friends

[chrome marsh]

and aorund now, utah got a nerf that was needed,
while i think dismount still should be faster

👍

[tacit oriole]

ironically docktah

[chrome marsh]

people want docktah play back

[frosty heron]

The worst kind of Utah player

[chrome marsh]

[tacit oriole]

Well so far bushsitting hearing a lot of utah 1 calls, so

[chrome marsh]

surviving doesnt mean you sit in a bush

just so u know

[frosty heron]

But nerfs hit us so hard we're forced to be Rocktahs now

[chrome marsh]

the bushsitting is merely a thing rn, bc gameplay loop is literally non existant

[frosty heron]

By popular opinion, Sadge

[tacit oriole]

My bush doesn't outclass my 2.3 damage bite so I'm happy here

[chrome marsh]

evrima still as boring as legacy was

so pvp lowkey only the thing to do anyway.

which is just bad game design

so god bless when diet, perks and all that jazz comes

[tacit oriole]

Exactly. It's a Dinosaur Fighting Game in a big survival framework

[chrome marsh]

not entirely

[frosty heron]

Depends, for people who is bad at PvP it is

[tacit oriole]

This isn't Kerbal Dinosaur Program

[chrome marsh]

its fight game rn, bc its barely polished

[frosty heron]

It's like Ark playerbase, PvE players hate PvP and viceversa

[chrome marsh]

itll become less of a fight agme the more polished

thats my point

remember biomes will also have you far away from certain animals

you might not even get close to stego anymore as utah

try to find it, lose ur buffs bc u left ur biome/area

[dusky surge]

Honestly, if pachy and utah have a decent 50/50 matchup, i think i'll be fine

[tacit oriole]

If the thrill of simply surviving was enough to draw players, we would see more dryos and less stegos

[chrome marsh]

60/50 for pachy at least , 1v1
have you seen the chonker

pachy is bigger

[hollow canyon]

Pretty sure they won't tbh

[dusky surge]

(tbf dryo doesn't have enough fun or unique mechanics to be worth surviving as)

[chrome marsh]

one blow to the head to utah? bye utah

[dusky surge]

I think utah, if it plays smart, should be allowed to take down pachy, but play carefully around pachy's attacks because it will kick their ass

[chrome marsh]

dont think utah will stand normal when its brain just got mushed

[tacit oriole]

I liked old dryo that could actually threaten big stuff. Felt like a naked Dark Souls run, and you died a lot, but it was so much fun

[dusky surge]

I liked legacy dryo more than any other dryo variation

[chrome marsh]

carni dryo

beyond cursed

[dusky surge]

Legacy dryo had horror elements, which I heavily enjoyed

[tacit oriole]

[chrome marsh]

no

[hollow canyon]

Agreed, I think Utah should be capable of 1v1ing a Pachy

[tacit oriole]

More importantly: 4 utahs should be able to threaten 4 pachy

'cos 1v1 doesn't always scale up to group vs group

[hollow canyon]

I view that match up as similar to Carno vs Tenonto but among the small tiers

[frosty heron]

Imagine adding a prey Item for roughly the same weight and not being able to 1v1 it

[hollow canyon]

I think the Pachy's going to be upsized compared to its irl version

[tacit oriole]

"But Utah is a small game hunter" when

[chrome marsh]

a

[frosty heron]

Hunt Hypsis, that's the small game people seems to want

[tacit oriole]

at least they are faster than a hypsi lol

[frosty heron]

An animal even an Human can kick and kill

[graceful wolf]

Just saw 3 tenos wreck 10 utahs. 6 utahs died and the rest ran away. None of the tenos died

[tacit oriole]

This patch honestly felt like a Principle Skinners meme "Sir, the utahs aren't using pounce. Should we buff it?" "No, it is the players who are wrong. Nerf everything else"

Anyway, back on topic: Got to the bottom of the weird blood regen. The last 10% heals at double speed

[frosty heron]

Boom Shakalaka

[tacit oriole]

Matches my experience

woot I'm a quarter grown, nearly as strong as a hypsi

[primal dove]

it should only have this playstyle as a solo utah

[frosty heron]

Enjoy your hour growing a 450 kg worth of Carno food

[primal dove]

in a pack u should take down way bigger things than just a hypsi, i mean u also have to, 1 tiny hypsi won´t feed ur pack

[tacit oriole]

I found one utah so far, sadly it was in the jaws of a deino

I can hear them but they are just sprinting around so baby me can't really join them

[frosty heron]

Lol why I'm laughing at this, I should feel bad

I'm slowly turning into a Stego main

[tacit oriole]

stego is nice but now deinos don't even try and fight you

[golden coral]

And now I have to go listen to that, thank you! :p

[tacit oriole]

it's like those videos of reef sharks swimming through the fish schools, you are just waddling around while everything stays out of reach

[frosty heron]

I will most likely be playing Stego today don't worry

Join me and let's bonk the world

[golden coral]

Hah. I've promised to try out utah for a few days so no can do.

[tacit oriole]

NA1 had like 15 stegos at pond earlier, and they were killing stegos they didn't like haha

was like deino pond herbi style

[dusky surge]

honestly, utah is better from like kinda of a difficulty standpoint, but its not viable lmao

i like it from a "oh shit im going to die oh fuck" standpoint

literally Isle hardmode

[frosty heron]

But nobody is gonna praise you to play hardmode, people will actually spit on you

And say your playable doesn't require skill

[dusky surge]

ahahaha, yea

its all the difficulty with none of the praise

[ocean glade]

yo, anyone knows why grazing doesnt even work? food goes down even while im grazing, feels kinda useless

[chrome marsh]

turn off replies in balance feedback thanks

[primal dove]

grazing only gives u food if u are below 20% hunger

[fresh laurel]

are you 20% food when grazing?

[ocean glade]

ohhh okay thanks! had no idea

[runic cliff]

I think Teno vs Utah is great now. I had a huge battle yesterday with 5 adults who tried to bleed me to death. One Utah survived and kept on tailing me, I could tell this was a very smart player. Only went in when it was possible etc. This cat and mouse game only ended after 30 minutes; he got my Teno down to orange health bar on its own and if he didnt get a lag spike at the end, mayyybe he would have been able to kill me. My point is that I had a lot of fun with this battle because it look a lot longer. Yes, Utah is glass now, but a smart one can deal a ton of damage and it becomes a battle of who loses stam the fastest and the most.

[fresh laurel]

think utahs requires you to be too smart to use rn imo

[primal dove]

wdym with deal damage? We deal 55 dmg and a teno has 2k health, but yea u can still kill them if it´s a raw 1v1

[proper zephyr]

I’m curious if Deino is now fine balance wise since it’s alt takes stam and it can’t just walk inside a stego and murder it with bullshit headshots

[runic cliff]

Yes but Teno burns his stam fast now, utahs need to play on time and be smart and stealthy

[primal dove]

Problem is players make 213301482171232 billion calls in 30 minutes and in that time it´s very likely a whole herd will merge around the fight

[fresh laurel]

it can use alt bite 10 times so thats fine but 8k health...

[primal dove]

true, u definitely have a point there.

[fresh laurel]

i felt like last update utah was fine

[primal dove]

it was definitely viable

[fresh laurel]

it still could die easy but could be scary

now utah is like the isle impossible game mode lol

[primal dove]

might have need a really really really small buff like buff the pounce or the biteforce to 150N and then it would have been absolutely fine

[fresh laurel]

150 bite again

doesnt seem bad ngl

wonder why not make utah a glass cannon

[primal dove]

yea i first thought about giving it 200N like in legacy but that´s maybe to much 150N would have been sick

[fresh laurel]

it had 150 at release of evrima

[runic cliff]

The problem is that people want to kill a dino as fast as possible and thats just not possible anymore. This sadly brings another problem because people log will have time to log into their alt accounts. Happened to me; once the last utah died I got chased by stegos and I was very low on stam! Only got away because the server crashed😩

[fresh laurel]

and teno vs utah at the time was fun

[primal dove]

really? Man good ol ´ times

it had way faster acceleration and speed i just remembered

[fresh laurel]

yup

[primal dove]

but that was kinda too broken

[golden coral]

Broke the game performance ^^

[fresh laurel]

i think 150 could stay

[golden coral]

Teleportahs was a real thing :p

[fresh laurel]

cus now utah has carno and deino

[primal dove]

maybe they should´ve left the acceleration untouched but just nerfed the speed

[fresh laurel]

nah accel was too good

something smaller like velo could get that accel though

[primal dove]

would be great just being able to kite and bait carnos

[runic cliff]

Didnt the devs give utah more bleed with pounce now? Have not been able to test it after the last hotfix

[fresh laurel]

pounce does no damage but ok bleed now

which kinda doesnt make sense at least the bleed does cus if something big as utah is ripping into your flesh then that has to make you become wary at least a tad

[runic cliff]

Gonna be interesting when Pachy comes in..

[fresh laurel]

lol

one hit from pachy and utah cant escape for once

[golden coral]

They did. Remains to be seen how it works when people are more used to how it works now.

[fresh laurel]

wait doesnt utah have 600 hp now?

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover, i'd fix his bleed, not increase his biteforce

[frosty heron]

For what I've seen the bleed remains around the same as prepatch so I'm not sure what they have done with it

[dusky surge]

his bleed is just too low

[runic cliff]

Guess we have to wait and see how it plays out. Maybe Pachy will be number one prey item for Utah and Teno for Carno. Steg for Allo IF he comes to Evrima soon witch I think will not happen. Maybe Don wants to give that spot to Alberto..?

[frosty heron]

Because most blood pools are nerfed

[frosty heron]

It has 450 hp

[fresh laurel]

lol before these big nerf i saw people say nerf utah hp to 750 or 700 and not 1000

so 450 seems just wow

[frosty heron]

750 sounds optimistic, they just turned Utah into a wood stick

[alpine plover]

I'm just saying, if you are thinking objectively, and you say that Utah was balanced in the previous patches, you are just a horribly bad player. (Not you, just in general)

[fresh laurel]

also if devs are nerfing utah to become more pack reliant why not wait for velo or compy for that reliability of packs

[dusky surge]

never said he was, just i think he feels like a worse carno now

small game hunter but with less speed, damage, health and actual efficiency in hunting small game

[frosty heron]

I could say the same about prepatch Stego but people just jumps on my neck

[fresh laurel]

these nerfs turned apexes back into legacy apexes

you know when it took 10 years to kill them as something smaller

[alpine plover]

Majority of the balance feedbacks are just entitled children who's mad because they can't solo Stegos anymore. It's beyond sad 😂

[golden coral]

And thats bad why?

That's not the issue with legacy, anyway

[fresh laurel]

legacy balancing kinda killed the game

[golden coral]

No

You're entirely wrong there

[alpine plover]

Sonic, you are wrong as hell.

[golden coral]

Are there balance issues in legacy, sure. Look at cerato, pachy, para.

[fresh laurel]

ayo my opinion not counting the bugs

[golden coral]

But it's not the apex matchups that are an issue. There are other issues with the apexes there, plus the whole lack of a proper gameplay loop and all.

[dusky surge]

honestly at this point im just waiting on Troodon because utah is losing a lot of charm for me

[fresh laurel]

utah is skin for compy that makes you bigger B)

[dusky surge]

ahahaha, thats actually what it does feel like now

[golden coral]

Anyway, thinking that it's bad that small things require massive amount of bites to kill a large thing is just... It's a survival game. Stop thinking that you need to kill everything. Even if you can only kill one thing in the entire game, that's fine as long as that's all you need to remain alive and to do everything else in the game (not that we have that yet but we're getting there sometime I hope).

Just.. if you're not here for the enjoyment of staying alive and just being, you're.. not cut out for a survival game. You don't want a survival game, you want an action game with "survival" tacked on.

[dusky surge]

i understand that, but utah feels like it cant kill ANYTHING, and anything it CAN kill, a carno can kill better

[alpine plover]

But Erik, A solo Utah now can't kill a Stego.. it's unplayable 🤓

[golden coral]

Which is perfectly fine to want, just, it's not survival any longer then.

[fresh laurel]

so the point of these nerfs were to make utah join more packs but didnt the devs think that the nerfs would make less people play utah causing less packs causing more solo utahs

[golden coral]

And that sounds bad. Though I heard a lot of "carno is just like utah" in the prior patch. Like they played the same way.

[dusky surge]

im fine with utah not being a killing machine, but being invalidated by his bigger, badder and better alternative is just sad

[frosty heron]

Dude not even big packs can kill a Stego tf youre talking about

[golden coral]

Agreed. Carno should be good at one thing, utah should be good at another.

[fresh laurel]

took me 8 utahs to kill a carno but only 3 survied

[golden coral]

Carnos good at hunting smaller stuff, but can't touch the large ones. Utah the reverse, more or less, barring of course making sure a solo utah can survive on it's own.

[alpine plover]

Stego shouldn't be a fucking everyday's food for Utah lmao. What are you on about? It's killable but it's hard, as it should be.

[dusky surge]

I feel like utah hasn't found his niche

[fresh laurel]

everything rn is stegos bitch

[fresh laurel]

he did before

[alpine plover]

you guys are just horrible then.

[fresh laurel]

carno was good

[frosty heron]

[golden coral]

@dusky surgeProblem is that people are complaining that they can't hunt everything good enough. See the feedback on carno vs stego headshot. They think 15 headshots is too much, but a carno should not even hunt a stego, much less solo. Get 3 carnos, and those 15 headshots are not as much of an issue.

It's fine that carno can not touch a stego, as long as utah packs in return can.

That way if you feel the desire to kill stegos, you play utah. If you feel the desire to kill utahs/pachy (later of course), and others around that size, you play carno.

[dusky surge]

I'm probably going to end up being more of a troodon/pachy main once they rock up. Utah has no unique flair for me anymore, feels like a weak carno, acts like a weak carno, basically is a weak carno. Maybe I'll think about utah more when humans are out and it finds its niche as a human slayer

[fresh laurel]

no

not even weak carno

its like a buffed velo

but human slayer is kinda useless when you think about other things utah sized that could probably enter the humans hideouts

[golden coral]

Maybe the utah just needs some extra help on the pounce dismount (since that's still an issue) and another touchup on bleed. But it also depends on how long hunts are supposed to take and how they're supposed to be conducted. I've yet to see any matchup with utahs vs a carno so I don't know how they try to play it out. But before this patch, me and another utah put up a good fight vs a solo carno, despite it being near trees and thus dangerous to pounce.

[fresh laurel]

got a carno to half hp alone before

[golden coral]

But people have this idea that hunting should be relatively quick, when it should be a good few minutes of getting into position, another few of waiting for the right moment to strike, and then a good few minutes for the actual "fight". And so on.

[dusky surge]

I used to enjoy utah, not because it stomped people but because it felt unique in the fact it could basically out-endure and bleed most opponents. Now utah's pounce reduces its stam to zero in a matter of seconds, its bleed is slower than prior and its health makes a single fuckup punishable by death against most dinos.

[dusky surge]

I agree with this, but even now, the bleed is just to minimal to matter

[golden coral]

After how many pounces, is the question to me though.

[dusky surge]

I have no idea how the bleed even works in EVRIMA

does more pounce = faster bleed?

[golden coral]

Because that's part of the balancing too, how many pounces it should take before the bleed is approaching problematic values for the target.

I don't know any more on that one. I would imagine that every pounce both obviously keeps the bleed going and adds another wound to the bleed stack.

[dusky surge]

blood loss should negatively impact your dino more, but it doesn't feel like it does anything at all

[fresh laurel]

kinda wish the devs put these changes in qa branch to see if players would like these huge nerfs

[dusky surge]

a 100% blood steg is just as good as a 10% steg, except one bleeds worse

blood just feels like a slower, more boring healthbar

[golden coral]

It does affect stam and health regen, so if you manage to get the stego low and bait some attacks/make it run or use stamina, then it'd have a hard time recovering from that. Same if you can bait a few bucks.

[golden coral]

That wouldn't be entirely a bad idea no. But then they would also have to keep it up for two weeks or so, so everyone can get used to it. Both the actual stats and how it works, as well as how it feels to play and all.

[primal dove]

u also have deep wounds from the assriding in legacy, huh? We aren´t mad bc we cant solo Stegos anymore but bc we can´t kill anything IN A PACK anymore.

Utah players who think they can solo shit should start playing apexes or stuff like carno/allo/alberto etc.

[golden coral]

I don't think it's an entirely good argument to just refer to assriding and some sort of PTSD. It's more so that there's disagreements in how difficult it should be to do something.

So far I've seen very few, even fewer stego mains, that doesn't want utah to hunt stego at all. We just disagree on how difficult it should be, how much time it should take, and how it should be done, and so on.

[primal dove]

was mainly a joke

also the argument " You are just bad" is the worst thing to say if u want to balance things. I could also just say stego players are just bad and get baited everytime.

[proper zephyr]

stego should be prey for a large utah pack of like 6 (at the absolute least) to 8 or more members, with each utah having to have a good idea of what they're doing in order to have a shot at killing the stego
they shouldn't just be able to curb stomp the stego at all, but also should at least have a chance of actually killing one

[golden coral]

I think both sides like to use that argument a bit too much yes.

That and the "How many hours have you played" :p

[primal dove]

have to agree with that one,yes

and the other one too ofc

[golden coral]

Why I want a balance vision and team so badly. It should be less arguing over good/bad and such if we had a clear idea of "this is how it should work".

[dusky surge]

i personally LIKE this update, just feel utah needs something else to compensate for basically making it one of, if not the, weakest dinos

[golden coral]

@primal doveOh btw, you sure on those day/night times?

Because that sounds.. well, reverse of how it should be.

[primal dove]

just a feeling

[golden coral]

Oh :p Maybe someone should time it, just to see.

[true sonnet]

Is utah realy that weak i thought it needed nerfs but have not played since the new patch so dont know how strong it is now just catching up

[dusky surge]

i do not think carno of all things is the one needing buffs

[true ginkgo]

I think there is a fundamental difference in what people think the gap between large and small dinos should be.

Which is why it’s so hard to find a consensus

[chrome marsh]

ryk my beloved

[primal dove]

it was in a nearly perfect state but the nerfs nearly obliterated it

[dusky surge]

utah didnt need how beefy and how much damage it did

[lament sundial]

i think there's just too many people clamping to the ideas of how to play an animal instead of adapting, this isn't always true but just becuase something worked when you started or before a patch happend, doesn't mean it'll still work. does this mean devs don't make mistakes? no but i feel like too many people are clinging on to what they know

try something new

[proper zephyr]

^ truth

[primal dove]

what would you say was the playstyle of the utah before the current update? (personal opinion: pack hunter/ dmg dealer and 1 shot potential)

also what do u think of this bleed system? Wanted to post it in #balance-feedback but I still have a cooldown.

Idea for the new bleed since it´s nowhere near the one described in the roadmap: You can stack bleed with attacks/special abilities for example 1 Carno bite fills ur blood drop for lets say 5%. The stages of bleed are the following: Blood drop filled to 50%, you slowly really slowly start losing stamina. Blood drop filled to 75% ,your speed decreases slightly and you start taking damage (2 times slower than starving/dehydrating).Blood drop filled to 100%, you collapse and stay unconcious for a decent amount of time (5 minutes maximum).

If you have reached a certain threshhold of your hp you also might die because of the bleed damage.

The lower your stamina is the faster you lose blood since your heart has to pump more oxygen through your blood to keep your organs and limbs healthy and functioning.

[proper zephyr]

id call it a pack hunter that can rush down smaller prey like dryo or hypsi, but relies on out-enduring large prey like stego with bleed, though that's kinda iffy since bleed currently is kinda meh imo

i wouldn't say it's a damage dealer with big prey

[primal dove]

does the writing cooldown disappear if I delete one of my messages in #balance-feedback

[dusky surge]

nope

[chrome marsh]

edit the message mayhaps idk

[wintry mountain]

Can frog man interject possibly

Full disclaimer I ain't gonna be calling anything perfect, but, there are some flaws in the arguments being made.

[proper zephyr]

(nice banner nova)

[golden coral]

Yes. That is the biggest issue here. We really need an official vision.

[wintry mountain]

Aight to be blunt with utah, you've blown the nerfs way out of proportion.

It still gets three shot by carno bite

• two shot by alt(speeds is too high)
  It still gets three shot by tenonto claws
• was four
  It gets two shot by teno tail(one on head)
• this is debatable, last update you were dead anyways because knockdown generally.
  It still gets one shot by stego(nothing changed)
  It gets one shot by deino(why are you messing with this thing)

Its pounce deals very little damage but quite a lot of bleed to compensate. However it can't just nuke an animals BP with 2-3 of pounces like before, it actually needs to be patient and bide time.

If you test properly and practice you'll find that it really isn't all that bad, but you are heavily punished for the slightest mistake.(which is mostly due the bottom segment about agility)

However, it's agility was a large and unnecessary hit for what it lost, that is a big issue as the animal can't properly dodge out of situations like it should.

[frosty heron]

Wish I message like this showed up before the patch talking about Stego but nope never happened, now us, Utah players are the only ones who have to adapt, of fucking course

[wintry mountain]

The animal was made to favor long drawn out hunts, don't think anyone here dislikes that

However certain atritubutes do not favor or support this

(Hunger times mainly)

[proper zephyr]

longer hunts are usually enjoyable and cool

[wintry mountain]

In the time I've played and tested

I have seen more utahs simply trying to bite me to death

And rushing in, then actually being patient

I won't say that's every utah, but there is a strong adjustment period needed to really get a hold of these changes

[primal dove]

not if a whole herd merges around ur target, but just raw long hunts are a lot of fucking fun, yes

[proper zephyr]

yeah true

[wintry mountain]

Because overall, your ability to kill as fast is whats been taken

However, with the loss in agility, you're now struggling to fill the get in get out fighting style

[dusky surge]

I also wish bleed was more effective as utah

[wintry mountain]

It is over longer hunts, just most hunts don't last long enough to allow that

[primal dove]

what do u think about this bleed idea?

Idea for the new bleed since it´s nowhere near the one described in the roadmap: You can stack bleed with attacks/special abilities for example 1 Carno bite fills ur blood drop for lets say 5%. The stages of bleed are the following: Blood drop filled to 50%, you slowly really slowly start losing stamina. Blood drop filled to 75% ,your speed decreases slightly and you start taking damage (2 times slower than starving/dehydrating).Blood drop filled to 100%, you collapse and stay unconcious for a decent amount of time.

If you have reached a certain threshhold of your hp you also might die because of the bleed damage.

The lower your stamina is the faster you lose blood since your heart has to pump more oxygen through your blood to keep your organs and limbs ,to keep them healthy and functioning.

[dusky surge]

bleeding should be utah's thing. I kinda wish blood loss had more than just stam and health regen penalties, something that makes constant bleeding more problematic and slowly shifts the fight in the favour of utah

[golden coral]

I'm not sure it's all that comparable between a change in how to hunt and with what, and a change in how the entire animal works and how the attacks function.

[wintry mountain]

That I can agree with

If bleed had more obvious effects as it gets worse

[proper zephyr]

yeah the stam and health regen stuff is fine, but imo bleed is kinda underwhelming
like said, it should be utah's primary way of bringing down large meals

[primal dove]

read my idea above

[wintry mountain]

Then the actual output would acceptable to more

[primal dove]

about the bleed

[frosty heron]

You know I get Stego needs new attacks for sure but why nobody said "Just adapt" like this guy said when everyone was crying about Stego was supposed to be "Bad"

Because fr Utah is absolute garbage now and I'm getting a "Git gud" as an answer

[primal dove]

exactly

[dusky surge]

heavy blood loss could cause minor slowing to movement, temporary loss of vision, a stam drain from simply walking/standing at REALLY low blood and so on. Realistic penalties for HEAVY blood loss (not utah bit me once, there goes my vision)

you'd need to be at least below 50% blood in order to get any of these effects imo

[golden coral]

@proper zephyrI had the idea that bleed would be in stages. First stage = halve regen of health and stamina. Second stage, all your stamina usage is doubled, for attacking and running. Third stage, you take double damage from attacks. In return, it would be harder and harder to bleed out. Let's say it takes 5 bites to empty from full to first stage, then 10 for the next, and 20 for the last. So at some point during the battle you shift from bleeding and weakening, to killing. Though then utah would have to be a bit changed again, with bite vs pounce.

[proper zephyr]

i enjoy this idea

[golden coral]

Well, a lot of us stegos also got the whole "git gud", you know that :p Both sides like to claim they're the ones with skill, and the opponents are bad. I prefer to have the approach that none of us are half as good as we think we are xD But adapt is more useful when you're still "doing the same" vs a different kind of "playstyle" if you get what I mean.

[proper zephyr]

make bleed a major factor in combat, not just kinda "oh im bleeding, that's kinda bad but ill just fix it later"

[steel whale]

So you want it to be like legacy where the opposition just has to keep you bleeding and you die?

[proper zephyr]

when did i ever say that my guy

[dusky surge]

I don't like the idea of double damage, the point of bleeding something out is to bleed it out, not so you can proceed to damage it to death

[proper zephyr]

i just want it to be more of an importance rather then it just

existing

[golden coral]

Basically. Utahs bite would do massive bleed but little damage. Pounce would go to the old "shred in seconds" (not that bad but still), damage but minimal bleed. So you'd harass the target, and bleed it with bites, to at least around second level, then start pouncing, and thus forcing it to buck or die, which would now cost a lot of stamina. If you pounce before the prey is "worn out", it'll just buck you off and you die, but if you weaken it first, then you'd be able to keep those pounces to do the damage.

[steel whale]

You said a major factor

[proper zephyr]

mmyes because making it more important makes it a broken legacy mechanic

[frosty heron]

I never seen someone telling people posting about Stego feedback to git gud ever, might be me that I could skip some of those days but with Utah situation it has been 2 days of pure debate and the opinions are split in half

[golden coral]

The idea to me is more so that bleed itself doesn't kill. It just weakens you until you can not fight back properly, then you finish with raw damage. I'd rather that, than just have bleed as a secondary "healthpool" honestly.

[proper zephyr]

^^

[steel whale]

There’s no way to make it more important than to make it like legacy’s

[dusky surge]

ehhh, dont like that, bleeding out is a cool mechanic to me, utahs are meant to bleed shit to death, not damage it to death.

[golden coral]

You could still bleed someone out, but it's more so that at some point the prey is weak enough to start properly attacking.

[steel whale]

That’s,that’s how it works bleed reduces stam

[hollow canyon]

I think bleed should be killing, it should most definitely be lethal. I completely disagree with making it just a support tool.

[dusky surge]

Seems lame that there'll be a point in the fight where the prey has no blood and no stam and just stands there as utahs spam their pathetic bites till dead

[golden coral]

Fair enough. It's just an idea I had to make both bite and pounce used in the battle vs something like a maia or diablo or something.

[hollow canyon]

It reduces stamina regeneration not the stamina itself

[golden coral]

Well, there's a lot of that "if you die to x utahs as y you're just trash", and I mean, it's the same as "if you can't kill x with y, you're just trash" :p

[steel whale]

It’s kinda the same thing

[hollow canyon]

It really, really isn't

not even close

PoT has one animal(Metriacanthosaurus iirc?) that drains stamina

[steel whale]

Pot sucks

[hollow canyon]

draining stamina is far more powerful than just reducing the regeneration

[frosty heron]

Oh damn gimme that

[golden coral]

Yeah, I know you disagree with me on this one. :p

[golden coral]

That's when you'd pounce and "shred" the prey. So it wouldn't be biting then, but pouncing. The bites would be the bleed part.

[dusky surge]

i really see pounce as the bleed tool, not bite

[golden coral]

Just because you do not like a game does not mean everything it does is crap.

[dusky surge]

it does suck tho

[golden coral]

So do I. But bite would be the bleed inflicting tool, and pounce the damage inflicting tool, in my idea. I think maybe we talked past each other a bit.

[golden coral]

Metri is really cool in that game!

Anyway, Isle, not PoT, sorry! :D

[steel whale]

No not everything is bad it’s just the fact that the games to similar to the isle at least with bob there’s the perk system and the color system

[dusky surge]

ehhh, watching a utah fucking attack with foot claws predominantly for bleeding along with gnashing with teeth and tearing with hands seems like a bleed move to me

[golden coral]

Fair enough. It's just that it was in relation to PoT just having that kind of mechanic Aken was talking about. :p

[steel whale]

And the fact an isle dev left to make that game

[primal dove]

and betrayed his own team 👀

[steel whale]

Yeah but he ended up just making a low budget isle with slightly better lighting than legacy

[primal dove]

true enough lol

[golden coral]

Let's not talk about that. Much less here.

Can only end in misery otherwise :p

[steel whale]

At least metri is cool

[hollow canyon]

I disagree with that mechanic being cool actually, stamina drain seems like an absolutely toxic mechanic. I just mentioned it because it is present in a similar-ish game.

[primal dove]

remember it wont be like in legacy where you just get some bites in and bleed out ur target, stamina drain should be really really slow and give teno ,for example which heavily relies on stamina, a time window to fight its foes and if it doesn´t use that time window well, then it´s doomed.

[tacit oriole]

We don't need to white knight for dondi

[hollow canyon]

I mean... that mechanic isn't confirmed for Evrima anyways

[tacit oriole]

I think it would be neat if pounce followed a more exponential damage/bleed output

so at first it's a bit slow, but the longer you hold one the faster it deals damage/bleed

[hollow canyon]

I've suggested that during update 2 that the longer you'd be pouncing for the more damage you'd be applying

[tacit oriole]

Well dangit if it doesn't need to be suggested again

[hollow canyon]

which was an issue because Utahs at the time were using the approach of just pouncing and disengaging

to nuke with that initial damage tick

[tacit oriole]

Like it makes sense right - you are digging your way through the outer fatty layers into the sensitive bits

I wonder what The Isle would be with a mechwarrior style zone damage

leg damage is just leg damage (plus bleed), your actual HP is only vitals

[proper zephyr]

@brittle basin ptera's got an alt bite

it's omni-directional like utah's

[dim radish]

Wait a second, I have heard a lot about Utah being nerfed is bad but I haven't played it just yet.
What was that “buff it's bite force to 80“ stuff? Is it currently that low?

[raw sparrow]

dont buff its bite force, buff its pounce bleed

[winged sierra]

it is, the nerfs were to encourage pounce usage and killing via bleed rather than via damage

[dim radish]

That's... humorously bad.
So Dryo is quite literally a Utah just without the pounce and bleed right now, speed, agility and damage wise

[golden coral]

I don't think it's anywhere near that bad no

You're exaggerating quite a bit :p

[dim radish]

That could very well be

[winged sierra]

when you simplify something that much it's easy to make anything seem like anything else

[hollow canyon]

@dim radishCarno's bite is nerfed down to 200N, Utah's down to 55N

[true ginkgo]

I think the agility nerf for smalls is part of the issue. The running turn radius and inertia of hispy, dryo, and utah is way too high

[stark knoll]

dryos bite and health were also nerfed

[hollow canyon]

HP of everything got adjusted to match the weights

[stark knoll]

patch notes are in #announcements

[hollow canyon]

Oh yea, Dryo was also nerfed, Health-wise, Bite-wise and speed-wise

As for bleed - Utah doesn't need a buff to its pounce's bleed. It's perfectly fine there, the issue might be the stutter-step and the agility(caused by the high inertia while running at max speed).

I'd personally also buff its health and biteforce a tad bit(HP up to 500 and biteforce up to ~75N).

The main reason for that is that it kind of takes a bit too long to kill even small things with bites(talking mainly about small mid tiers like Tenonto and Carno). Yea you can bleed them out but its rather comical just how little damage the bite does.

I also wouldn't touch alt-bites damage it's perfectly fine where it is(imo).

[true ginkgo]

I think utahs health is fine personally. Though I feel it’s damage is too low and also the turn radius and inertia nerfs we’re unneeded. The agility (not speed) nerfs on the smalls shouldn’t have happened.

[hollow canyon]

It shouldn't be dying to a onetap from Tenonto's tailslam, even on a headshot - the Tenonto should have to attack it one more time to finish it off.

[true ginkgo]

The isle utah model definitely isn’t 500kg. And having such a small model makes it harder to hit.

[winged sierra]

i agree with the tail slam thing

even if it's still a slam and a bite to kill, it shouldn't be a one hit

[hollow canyon]

Yeh

[true ginkgo]

Upping the model size towards larger speculative utahs could give an excuse for more health

When the isle utah has its head held in a proper theropod position it’s clear it’s too small for 500kg

[hollow canyon]

The only issue with making its health 500 would be that it stops dying to a bodybite from Deino

At least I think

[true ginkgo]

How much damage does the tail slam do again?

[hollow canyon]

360 to my knowledge

might be 400 or 300

I've seen different accounts

[wintry mountain]

You could arguably reduce tenos tail slam instead given its mirror match also saw reduced health

[hollow canyon]

I'd go with that preferably

[wintry mountain]

atm its still a two shot on anything other than a utahs head

[hollow canyon]

Yea

I think Tenonto's damage output might be a bit too high for the current stats in the game

although some people were complaining about it so I'm not sure - I haven't played it much yet

I only know that it runs for roughly 90 seconds and has 16 kicks now(15 but by the time you use them all you have enough stam for one more kick)

[wintry mountain]

Tenonto still feels relatively the same overall, as does carno minus its deino alt bite part 2 syndrome

[hollow canyon]

Carno felt ok to me but I didn't get to play it enough to form an opinion, was busy messing around as a Utah so far

[wintry mountain]

But, I honestly have no issue with the idea of going back to how tenonto was initially showed via concept, in which its tail slam is a cc attack first, damage second

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's how i see it

[wintry mountain]

People have brought up its match up with carno being skewed if you do that but

[hollow canyon]

For the amount of firepower the animal has I think the damage and CC should be spread over different skills rather than have one skill that does it all

[wintry mountain]

If your constantly stunning the thing then what changes?

[true ginkgo]

Yeah lowering the tail slam damage makes more sense imo.

[wintry mountain]

Just cant kill it as fast

Tenonto aside, scrolling back up to the utah said stuff

the issue isnt just limited to utah, people are calling for a buff without looking at other areas of issue

Carnos alt bite speed being one of them

Utahs intertia, something completely unrelated to damage/bleed

Which has seen very little brought up

[true ginkgo]

Hispys and dryos inertia too.

[wintry mountain]

Aye

[true ginkgo]

Turning at all while running just grinds you to a halt.

Which will be punishing utah way too much when trying to avoid attacks

[thin mantle]

Inertia was just unneeded

[oak wind]

Islecord when Utah is what it's supposed to be :

[tacit oriole]

I've not had this issue, can still run in small circles just using WASD