All my Stegos got lost to wipes. I should grow it and play it more but it's just damn boring to play
#balance-feedback-discussion
frosty heron
frosty heron
Only fun time is killing those dumb Deinos outside of water
raw sparrow
if someone made a mistake against my shitty attacks, that player deserves to die in game or get hurt, ofc
sinful cove
Snore fest dino
frosty heron
That's why I believe Stego needs quality of life, but not exactly because it's bad
sinful cove
It should have more attacks as well, since the jab is honestly lame and only good against other large animals
A lower damage aoe sweep would be nice, the tail swing is iconic as well so stego just feels incomplete without it
hollow canyon
I don't think this discussion specifically was about adult Stego being baited or whatever else - it was specifically about a Stego that grew for around an hour having less hp than a Dryosaurus. Which is... just weird balance-wise.
I don't think there's much of a way of making it so that the slow, large and powerful herbivores like Trike or Stego are actually viable in their juvenile stages but they most certainly should be better than they are. I'd even argue that they should probably decrease the damage of juv Stego and buff up its health significantly because it's just absurd how it dies from anything and everything.
A Rex that was growing longer than a Utah and reached Utah's weight should absolutely be a threat to a Utah. A Carno-sized Giga should be dangerous to a Carno. Those fights shouldn't be one-sided at those stages.
true ginkgo
Yeah juvies stegos damage is far too high, but its health is stupidly low.
I don't expect juvie stego to ever be properly viable. Even once it hits 500kg, if a carno appears it dies. That's how it should be. All I'm saying is that it should be matching the health of animals of a similar size, rather than having less health than a dryo.
cedar shore
@true ginkgo To be fair, eliminating the tie between weight and health was a really good idea and allows for proper balance without having to worry about its realistic weight.
slim dragon
^
Also, health directly correlating to weight isn't even realistic. Being bigger doesn't make an animal proportionately tougher, because molecules and cells can't change size.
true ginkgo
An elephant takes more to kill than a gazelle. That's just simple facts. Large animals are generally tougher than small animals.
I'm not talking about the legacy damage formula, where larger creatures both had more health and somehow didn't take damage from smaller things.
slim dragon
An elephant takes more to kill than a gazelle. That's just simple facts. Large a...
Tougher, but not proportionnaly
An elephant is tougher because it's bulkier
But an elephat-sized gazelle would still be frail
That's also the reason why all insects are so small
true ginkgo
Tougher, but not proportionnaly
An elephant is tougher because it's bulkier
But ...
A gazelle sized elephant would be about as tough as.... a gazelle.
It wouldn't have 3x as little health.
I'm saying that when a stego matches a utahs size, it should have similar health to a utah. Not 3x less.
slim dragon
I'm saying that when a stego matches a utahs size, it should have similar health...
Well yes
true ginkgo
<@!244886798701035530> To be fair, eliminating the tie between weight and healt...
The old legacy formula was (Attacker Weight/Victim Weight) * Base Damage. I'm not talking about bringing this back. It was awful as it magically made big things not take damage from small things, in addition to the big things having tons of health.
I'm simply talking about a creatures size correlating to its health. A larger animal would still be taking full damage from a smaller animal.
slim dragon
Logically yes
Unless there is a hide armor mechanic implemented
true ginkgo
I suspect either that will be unique to anky/minmi, and maybe magy as an armour mechanic. Or will just be done via damage modifiers to those parts of the animal.
slim dragon
Hm
Shameless plug of my suggestion about damage calculations and armor
#general-feedback message
cedar shore
I'm simply talking about a creatures size correlating to its health. A larger an...
Yeah i understood that, however size/weight shouldnt have much correlation with health.
true ginkgo
Yeah i understood that, however size/weight shouldnt have much correlation with ...
I mean I personally disagree. I've yet to see anyone come up with a good reason why a dryo which is a fraction of the size and weight of a mid way through juvie stego, should have more health.
cedar shore
I mean I personally disagree. I've yet to see anyone come up with a good reason ...
Because it doesnt? A sub stego has around 2.5k health while a dryo has around 500. Weight is exponential with growth where as health is linear.
true ginkgo
Because it doesnt? A sub stego has around 2.5k health while a dryo has around 50...
I was playing a 550kg stego. At that size it dwarfs dryo if you place them side by side.
It also has slightly less health than the 120kg dryo.
golden coral
Are we talking weight/"size" or growth percentage?
true ginkgo
A juvie stego is much larger than a dryo, but has less health.
cedar shore
I was playing a 550kg stego. At that size it dwarfs dryo if you place them side ...
Are you sure it has less health though, like how did you test it?
Also what growth % was it?
true ginkgo
The stats and healths are known via testing. watt knows them all seemingly.
An adult stego has 4000hp and 6000kg mass. A 500kg stego has about 330 health. A 120kg dryo has 350hp. While a 500kg utah has 1000HP.
Can't remember what 500kg correlates to in growth percentage. I'd test it again, but servers are currently potat.
cedar shore
The stats and healths are known via testing. watt knows them all seemingly.
An ...
nonono, as i said. Weight is exponential with growth where as health is linear
golden coral
Do we have confirmation of this?
cedar shore
So at some point because the stats increase unevenly there will be a large gap between the 2 stats
true ginkgo
Do we have confirmation of this?
I'd need to check with watt.
Stego is 2/3 health for weight.
cedar shore
Do we have confirmation of this?
Im not 100% certain but i have survived bites from adult deinos as a 60 growth raptor which is like 100 k
cedar shore
Stego is 2/3 health for weight.
Do you even know what linear and exponential numers are?
hollow canyon
Im not 100% certain but i have survived bites from adult deinos as a 60 growth r...
That proves... literally nothing.
true ginkgo
Yes I do. And if health was linear the juvies would have more health than would be suggested in the early stages. They have less.
cedar shore
That proves... literally nothing.
I mean it did bite me entirely..
hollow canyon
I've had Utahs larger than 100kg get instagibbed by Deino.
It either landed a base of the tail hit or the tip of the tail.
cedar shore
Yes I do. And if health was linear the juvies would have more health than would ...
Yeah they do have a fair bit of health as a juvie, far more than you would exepct from their weight
true ginkgo
500kg utah takes a ram by carno, and then takes two bites to kill.
500kg stego instantly dies when rammed by carno.
They have far less health for their weight than other animals of that weight. Apart from deino which also has low health early on.
hollow canyon
Also - weight has never been tied to health. Those stats were the same for some animals in the legacy but had nothing to do with one another.
cedar shore
It either landed a base of the tail hit or the tip of the tail.
How do you know their weight by just looking at them? + they could have been low hp or injured
I think its best if we actually test this on a server tbh
hollow canyon
How do you know their weight by just looking at them? + they could have been low...
No, I'm talking about my Utah.
hollow canyon
I haven't seen anything that would suggest that the health scales linearly so far. The fact that a 20%+ grown Stego dies to Carnos charge really says it all.
If health scaled linearly there it would have HP approaching that of an adult Utah.
cedar shore
I haven't seen anything that would suggest that the health scales linearly so fa...
carnos charge is determined by weight though
cedar shore
do you know how it is determined by weight?
Wdym how?
hollow canyon
What does it mean that carno's charge is determined by weight?
What does the weight change about how Carno's charge works?
cedar shore
Carno size / target size determines wheter its gonna knock you over, stun you and how long it will stun you and lots of other minor things
Stun target mb
and weight not size oops
hollow canyon
It determines which target gets stunned, whether it will get stunned or knocked down(getting knocked down if it's smaller than Carno and stunning at the same weight). What it doesn't change however is how much damage it does. Whether you charge a Utah, a Dryo or a Hypsi you're still going to deal the same damage.
true ginkgo
I just think if a stego or deino has been growing for 75 mins, it should be comparable to a utah which has grown for 75 mins.
hollow canyon
So I'm failing to see how that's at all relevant to this discussion, since the Stego in question weighed 500kg+.
cedar shore
It determines which target gets stunned, whether it will get stunned or knocked ...
Thats pretty much what i said, but since when did charge do dmg?
hollow canyon
Since... always?
Carno's charge deals damage - the example Frumpkin was talking about was of her Stego being oneshot by Carno's charge.
cedar shore
Must be pretty insignificant, I havent really notice it unlessi ram like a stego as a juvi carno
hollow canyon
If it didn't deal damage how would it oneshot a Stego.
cedar shore
Yeah yeah fair
hollow canyon
If you ram a Stego as a Juvie Carno you're going to deal damage to yourself - you can't charge targets larger than yourself otherwise you stun yourself instead of them.
cedar shore
If you ram a Stego as a Juvie Carno you're going to deal damage to yourself - yo...
Yeah i know that
hollow canyon
And the damage is not very high but significant enough to oneshot many juveniles - including a Stego.
cedar shore
Okay but what does any of this has to do wether health grows is linear or exponental?
hollow canyon
If health scaled linearly you wouldn't be oneshotting a 20-25% grown Stego with the charge.
It would have a health pool approaching that of an adult Utahraptor so it wouldn't get oneshot with the charge.
cedar shore
If health scaled linearly you wouldn't be oneshotting a 20-25% grown Stego with ...
You dont though? Ive charged baby stegos and unless they are low hp they will just get knocked over
hollow canyon
Talk to Frumpkin about it - that's the initial claim in this whole discussion - a 500kg Stego got oneshot by Carno's charge.
cedar shore
That makes no sense
that shouldnt happen
Regardeless wana go on a server i have admin on and test this linear health thing for real?
hollow canyon
Pretty sure it can happen even if just barely. Don't think a 25% grown Stego can get oneshot by that but 20% Stego should be killed by charge itself.
I'm a bit busy right now, just looked at this discussion for a second.
cedar shore
Allright later then ig
The linear health growth was super balanced among dinosaurs so it wouldnt make much sense that they would change it
true ginkgo
Talk to Frumpkin about it - that's the initial claim in this whole discussion - ...
Yep this. A utah can tank it, and takes another two bites to kill. A stego of a similar mass and growth time is instantly dead the second the carno touches it.
I've not tested it with deino, but I suspect the same would happen.
hollow canyon
If Carno's charge kills it then Deino's bite would most definitely kill it, the charge does less damage than the bite of a Carno iirc.
golden coral
@cedar shoreI can test with you. Which server?
cedar shore
Yep this. A utah can tank it, and takes another two bites to kill. A stego of a ...
This seems like nonsene to me, anyone wana please join me test this?
uhh I dont remember the name give me a sec
true ginkgo
This seems like nonsene to me, anyone wana please join me test this?
ok invite?
move to DM too?
golden coral
@true ginkgoYou go test, you probably have a better idea on how to test this than I do, but I can join if you need a third participant :p
sinful cove
“Nerf stego it killed me and my friend while we were walkinng on land as obviously juvie deinos!”
Amazing
This is like the guy who said tenonto needed a nerf because he sat on a rock for 5 minutes as a utah watching a teno climb it to kill him
alpine plover
Might as well remove stego then
sinful cove
Honestly it was added too early
dusky surge
goes up to land as deino
gets killed by a land apex herbi
somehow that's because stego is OP and not on the fact that he was literally in an environment where he's supposed to be weaker
sinful cove
But not because it's “overpowered”
alpine plover
Adding stego and deino this early was a mistake
sinful cove
Also stego doesnt 2 shot full adult deino ao this person is lying
Deino also wins the exchange with alt bite which this person clearly didnt know how to use either
dusky surge
lmao true, thank god U4 patches it a bit
sinful cove
Anyway time to drop that suggestion in my archive of awful isle suggestions 
lean shoal
deino can clap stego with no effort atm
lunge them for a stun then alt bite the head
stego needs a buff if anything. your useless until 70% growth and even then your still pretty easy prey for carnos, utahs and deinos
sinful cove
Yeah it baffles me how two deinos dies to one? They obviously werent fully grown and the person writing the suggestion is lying
lean shoal
they were probably like 40% deinos or 60% and it got head shots.
sinful cove
Most likely
lean shoal
people that say nerf herbivores atm are basically asking for free meals.
old legacy mindset that needs to die.
and has needed to die since 2017.
alpine plover
most carnivore players are just surprised that a herbivore can defend itself.
that’s why there’s so many nerf teno suggestions
sinful cove
Carni players are mad that they can’t just run in, effortlessly tear any herbi to ribbons and then take 10 screenshots broadcasting on the body for their jurassic park headfiction
lean shoal
carnivore: noooooooo you cant just kill me with your tail club, horns, thagomizer or stomps.
herbivores: damage go burrrr.
lean shoal
ban
dawn falcon
Reminds me is someone who kept saying Carno should be able to take on stego and stego shouldn’t one shot Carno lmfao
sinful cove
Why has that shit been happening every day lately
alpine plover
people always ruin the conversations
lean shoal
Reminds me is someone who kept saying Carno should be able to take on stego and ...
brain damage.
sinful cove
Wtf
alpine plover
<@&401466542140817419>
dawn falcon
Oh my god
dusky surge
free
lean shoal
fucking bots
sinful cove
Again
sinful cove
Anyway they want every carni to be some badass brawler that plays more or less the same and every herbi to just sit and wait to die, when that doesn't happen they come to feedback and cry for a nerf
lean shoal
apparently it was every channel too.
sinful cove
Yeah they do that
alpine plover
I’m still wondering why every herbivore in legacy was fodder except for maybe dibble
lean shoal
funny how only a select few predators have a hunt success rate above 50%
sinful cove
It was slightly too offensively capable but other than that it was such a good dino
dawn falcon
Stegos healthpool increase is the first step to making an apex 
Which is an odd one to choose first instead of a new attack but hey
sinful cove
Diavlo could juke rexes and had decent enough stam regen to get away from a majority of gigas but yeah maia was superior at survival
I hope maia isnt fodder in evrima
alpine plover
just hope they don’t gut trike again
lean shoal
maia is also a walking bag of meat.
alpine plover
Trike was actually horrible
sinful cove
Trike the guaranteed 1v1 death against a giga
alpine plover
Same with a rex with that knows how to double bite
lean shoal
i want trike to get a velocity based damage mechanic on its gore where if you are sprinting you deal more damage, fractures and bleed.
sinful cove
Camara was also a guaranteed death against giga if the giga had an ounce of patience
lean shoal
trike could beat giga but 90% of trikes werent smart enough to.
alpine plover
I actually killed a cama yesterday as an Allo lmao
sinful cove
Poor cama
alpine plover
Funny bleed
lean shoal
Camara was also a guaranteed death against giga if the giga had an ounce of pati...
unless the giga fucked up you were doomed.
giga had to get stomped or trampled.
sinful cove
Yeah you had to hope the giga was a moron lol
alpine plover
A giga could just tank a cama get a couple bites and wait
sinful cove
I dont think ive ever died to a trike or camara as giga and i am a subpar player
alpine plover
I never get to fight them, even on deathmatch
lean shoal
A giga could just tank a cama get a couple bites and wait
unless your tanking the tail you dont want to facetank a camma. cammas trample did almost 300 damage every half second to giga because of weight.
alpine plover
everyone just goes rex and quad bites like a loser
lean shoal
everyone just goes rex and quad bites like a loser
this is true
good thing the 2% population of utahs are always fun to delete as pachy.
sinful cove
The thing is to just trade on the tail shots and wait as you heal and the cama bleeds, and bait stomps for free bites if the cama isnt smart
alpine plover
unless your tanking the tail you dont want to facetank a camma. cammas trample d...
No, just for a couple of seconds to apply bleed
Cama stomp is useless
lean shoal
3 seonds of trample from a camma is like 2k damage
lean shoal
i only stomp if i have to or its likely to hit
sinful cove
Shant facetanks cama with stomps
lean shoal
i usually try to stomp rexes if they go for a run through and it works about 70% of the time.
lean shoal
Shant facetanks cama with stomps
shants hitbox is bugged so you cant avoid them easy either.
you know what i liked to do in legacy? kill carnos as cerato and sucho
also use pachy to dunk on cocky utahs.
alpine plover
I’m sad that cerato is bad as it is in legacy
lean shoal
cerato is either insane or weak in legacy
sinful cove
Utahs also seem to think ceras are super easy kills so it was fun to go to docks as one and kill a handful
alpine plover
Cera messed utahs up but that’s pretty much it
lean shoal
sucho is better than cera vs utahs because you care less about bleed, 1 shot them and can bite them through the crates sometimes.
alpine plover
and that broken left hitbox
lean shoal
i killed multiple carnos on deathmatch as cera at once.
i dodged them for a good minute before i decided i had to kill or die
alpine plover
they must’ve been bad because it takes 2 bites to bleed you out
alpine plover
Nah I tested it, you can bleed to death if standing still
lean shoal
i just played it like a bull fighter lol
alpine plover
It took like 2 minutes though so
lean shoal
at least its not the "i die in 3 bites to everything" cera from prog
alpine plover
Yeah at least
lean shoal
ceratorex though
ocean wagon
What did I just read in suggestion channel
alpine plover
You read carnivore bias
slim dragon
"Casually walking as Deinos"
Nothing wrong in that sentence
ocean wagon
I thought it was a meme
Or satire
Let’s say that you were two full grown drinks
How do you still lose
To a single stego
Ya know at this point it’s just natural selection
sinful cove
Guessing the 1 person who upvoted was their friend lol
ocean wagon
LMFAO
alpine plover
Sussy
alpine plover
Uhhhhh
ocean wagon
Like you can’t even hit the plates any more
sinful cove
How tf you die to a ptera as an adult stego assuming thats what they were
ocean wagon
I can maybe understand a freshspawn stego
alpine plover
I’m going to make a suggestion
Rex needs a broken hitbox that can hit anything from a ten mile radius
sinful cove
I know pteras can pick off heavily injured stegs but thats it
lean shoal
to die to a ptera as an adult stego means you were already hurt or your bad
sinful cove
Did they sit there and wait to die like the dude from the nerf teno feedback
lean shoal
stego can hit them out of the air if they fly too low
ocean wagon
Exactly
sinful cove
Literally just
scenic heron
Bro if you get killed by a Ptera as a stego you need to re evaluate your life choices
sinful cove
Go next to some trees
scenic heron
Or just run into a forest
sinful cove
Ptera bullies everything rn if its out in the open just dont let it
Its like a swooping crow
alpine plover
@young elbow pteranodon is very weak, stegosaurus can fend it off easily. Unless it is crippled from a prior attack
sinful cove
You have to actually let ptera kill you unless youre already fucked up on health
scenic heron
Yeah
But if you keep letting them pepper at you they can be a threat
But that can be avoided by just going into a forest
Hell I’ve had carnos avoid me as a Ptera by just running around one palm tree
It’s not that hard
sinful cove
Some ptera players are good at weaving through trees but it still gives you a big upper hand
scenic heron
Yeah
sinful cove
Since they gotta then focus on avoiding you and the foliage
scenic heron
And if your in big enough foliage they may crash into you
alpine plover
Some ptera players are good at weaving through trees but it still gives you a bi...
pteranodons are basically meant to be out in the open
especially since folding wings mid-fight isn't an option for ptera.
sinful cove
Yeah they arent meant to go into the jungle and hunt people
Its hard to see in there anyway with all the leaves and shit
scenic heron
pteranodons are basically meant to be out in the open
Yes but you’d be surprised how easily we’re able to weave through them
alpine plover
most vegetation is too dense for pteras to even see properly
scenic heron
most vegetation is too dense for pteras to even see properly
Not really no
It’s just hard
alpine plover
going into the forest to live another day is a good bet.
sinful cove
I can usually weave through the forest as ptera but fight somebody while doing it? I wouldnt even bother lol
scenic heron
Attacking in the forest is incredibly hard
alpine plover
yes
scenic heron
Flying through it isn’t
alpine plover
vegetation collision isn't a thing yet
scenic heron
True
If your attacked by a ptera the forest is your only option
You can’t outrun it
Even if your a carno
dim radish
vagrant mural
And if they do bother, shitboxes will get them killed
young elbow
<@!545281780434075662> pteranodon is very weak, stegosaurus can fend it off easi...
a Ptera can just stay out of reach and Will just peck you to death
dim crown
Zoom in, when flying&fighting in forests, as a Ptera, it helps your vision.
hollow canyon
I'm not toing to go on about the legacy discussion that took place above since it's widely irrelevant(despite the fact that my experience is somewhat different to what has been described there). However regarding the two feedbacks that people have been discussing here:
Stego doesn't kill a fully grown Deino with 2 shots... ever. Even headshots won't kill a Deinosuchus this quickly(you need 4 of those although Deino should have just a minuscule amount of hp left after the third one). Two Deinos should be killing a Stegosaurus every time, even on land. One of them might die in the process though. If they both die... I suggest to play some other animal or practice Deino a little bit because that's an intolerably bad performance. The very fact that the Deinos tried to run away from a Stego while being on land kind of says it all with regard to their skill.
As for Ptera being too good against Stego - it's most definitely too good against Stego and a couple other animals. Making it so that it can hit terrestrial creatures in flight was a really questionable idea imo. Can it kill them? Not really, but a 90kg flying rat shouldn't be at all capable of forcing an apex herbivore like a Stegosaurus to run for the woods.
sinful cove
Stego is bad against small agile things in general so I don't believe it is a ptera problem but rather a stego one
hollow canyon
It is very much a Ptera problem and not a Stego one. Stego simply has no way of hitting a Pteranodon that knows how to peck mid-air from max distance. Only the animals with jump can hope to hit it. You could increase the speed of Stego's attack to instant and it would fair just as badly against Pteranodon simply because it is completely incapable of hitting it if Ptera remains at the highest altitude from which it can peck it.
Yes, it is possible to hit a Pteranodon in general because they very often start flying slightly below their max range however if they stick to the highest altitude you won't hit them and they can keep pecking you from afar.
wild cove
Ptera does so little damage per peck though, whereas most everything else fully grown can 1-shot it lol
Adult Deino, Utah, Carno, can all kill adult Ptera in one bite lol
sinful cove
stego's attack is also absolute garbage, it can be juked by small land dinos not only ptera, it needs more omnidirectional and aoe control over its tail
deino is getting an aerial lunge to snatch up pteras, so other dinos should be able to lunge or reach upwards in attacks as well, it is not a ptera problem imo
wild cove
Also it just overall seems silly to be mad Ptera has an air attack. Most things can kill it the moment it lands anywhere near someone. They're squishy if you're anything other than Hypsi.
Not to mention you can't fly with the bleed bug, although I know that's supposed to be fixed next update
sinful cove
honestly ptera would be boring as fuck if it couldnt swoop people
wild cove
It would also die constantly if it had to rely on land combat
Be right down there with Hypsi
sinful cove
ptera definitely doesnt need to fight to survive with how easy fishing is, but it would be so damn boring
wild cove
I mean it should at least be able to scare away would-be predators
sinful cove
it can agitate predators in to leaving sometimes right now, which is definitely fine
ocean wagon
Stego should be able to just bum rush things and trample them
sinful cove
birds do it irl anyway
just harrass animals that are too big to beat until they leave the area
sinful cove
Stego should be able to just bum rush things and trample them
hadrosaurs in general should be trample gods
wild cove
I mean if a starling smaller than my hand feels totally confident in air-bombing me IRL, I don't see why Ptera can't do the same to a stego
ocean wagon
Please my phone changed stego to para
wild cove
Or anything else for that manner
sinful cove
oh lmao
ocean wagon
But yes to that too
sinful cove
yeah stego should just be able to pancake a lot of idiot dinos that let it walk over them
large dinos should also be able to pancake grappled smalls against trees and rocks
ocean wagon
I feel like herbis should body bag the carnivores in their class
alpine plover
a Ptera can just stay out of reach and Will just peck you to death
Yes, if you're low on HP or something.
Most of the time you can beat the shit out of em
ocean wagon
I’m tired of seeing 90% of the server playing carnivores
sinful cove
I feel like herbis should body bag the carnivores in their class
they honestly should in a lot of cases but then carni mains whine and cry about it until theyre nerfed again so it's unlikely to happen often
like the guy who sat on a rock for 5 minutes literally waiting for a teno to reach him and then ran to feedback to demand a teno nerf
ocean wagon
Like a lot of carnivores fail their hunts irl be herbivores evolved to deal with them
ocean wagon
like the guy who sat on a rock for 5 minutes literally waiting for a teno to rea...
That gave me a headache reading that
sinful cove
herbis are always outnumbered in the isle which is another reason
as well as being slower than their predators
most of the time the carni will be able to choose if a fight happens
ocean wagon
I hate how everyone wants to be a carnivore
sinful cove
media makes carnivores super appealing and constantly dunks on herbis
ocean wagon
This is why I want the devs to work on herbivores more
sinful cove
documentaries tend to show successful hunts and dino docs always show predators running in and oneshotting huge herbivores
kids see that and are like woah so cool carnivores are the bestest
and it just imprints
eating meat is also just viewed as more manly and badass which isnt really documentaries' fault though
ocean wagon
Herbivores tend to be more complex that carnivores though
Especially in the case of dinosaurs
Damn near every carnivore is just bite bite until you die
And take a look at how diverse the herbivores are
sinful cove
carnivores also tend to all just be theropods with different arms and adornments, herbis in the isle have a lot more anatomical variety
also huge horns and spikes are badass, it really is a shame that carni bias just seeps in to the game so much
sinful cove
unironically rex was one of the more balanced legacy dinos
ocean wagon
I despise legacy “balance” with a passion
sinful cove
i want to play cerato and kentro and ovi and feel like the factions all have equal love put in to them but carnis get so much more attention
more niches, cool ass mechanics, strains
ocean wagon
What’s the point of playing it other than being a running bag of meat
Hypsi should’ve been released with herra
sinful cove
it definitely shouldnt have been released in the state it's currently in
hypsi and dryo were rushed bs
ocean wagon
It has no real way of defending itself
Please, current dryo is literally legacy Galli
sinful cove
they fucked up its dodge or rushed it so they slap on a speed buff band-aid
sinful cove
dodge could be cool if it wasnt done shittily
ocean wagon
Like kangaroo
ocean wagon
I feel like a dodge would’ve matched galli better
sinful cove
personally i want galli to be master speed of the herbi faction
faster than utah, just run like fuck rather than utilize insane agility
ocean wagon
I wonder if it’ll have godly stam still
sinful cove
dryo being agile af with tight turns and a dodge ability and good endurance all to make up for less speed would make him pretty invigorating
i hope galli still has good stam, itll probably be very fragile
in legacy it took me like 2 hours to heal after a fight against a utah, absolute misery lmao, he doesnt look like a tank so itll probably take a lot of damage from utah in evrima too
ocean wagon
For cerato I hope they have a maul attack
Were the cera just clamps down on you and ragdolls you
sinful cove
somebody had an idea of cerato using his size as an advantage to duck under larger mid tier theropods and knock them off balance
i kind aliked that idea
ocean wagon
Ouuu
sinful cove
allo runs into chomp a cera, cera ducs under and whacks allo in the chest. considering he will probably play defensively against a lot of other predators it fits i think
ocean wagon
I’m curious how they’re going to revamp the fighting system
Bc rn it’s just a glorified version of bob
sinful cove
it is a lot less engaging than it was hyped up as way back yeah
it has its moments, but hopefully stuff like socketed pounce and charges/slams on the end of your tail stunning you get redone
mint heart
I mean it works better and less jank than BoB
sinful cove
BoB's underwater fights make me want to die just looking at it lol
ocean wagon
Well yeah, a glorified version of bob
ocean wagon
The krono touching the sky in a single dart
Sending 20 ton apas flying Across the map
mint heart
BoB is goofy as fuck, and I respect that. But hurry up your animation updates lol
ocean wagon
it has its moments, but hopefully stuff like socketed pounce and charges/slams o...
I wish you could bite and hold onto your prey though
I hate the little snaps you do
Because realistically a tiger isn’t going to just do small bites to kill a deer
It’s going to bite the neck and hold on
ocean wagon
People died to hypsi pecks? Once again it’s just natural selection at this point
wild cove
Honestly the only things that die to Hypsi pecks are afk fresh spawn raptor and ptera
Which are usually smaller than it anyway
Literally nothing else dies to Hypsi pecks except people who are just Bad or standing in one spot getting spam bitten
Hypsi can't even really kill other Hypsi unless they're just standing around
Other changes look promising though so guess I'll see how those play
stark knoll
wild cove
Shorter grow time, but smaller health pool
slim dragon
Also everything has been nerfed... if dryo didn't get nerf, it would literally outcompete everything else and become an apex
tacit oriole
Teno bite is 25 (was 110), ptera now 15 (was 50)
teno was bite 110, slash 200, kick 300, slam 400, now bite 25, slash 175, kick 225, slam 300
carno was bite 350 alt-bite 350, now bite 200 alt-bite 250
both have also had a hp nerf
HUGE dryo nerf - was 75 now 10 @slim dragon @dusky surge
holy moly 10 damage, how are you ever meant to kill anything with a dryo now
Teno slams and kicks now get an extra bonus vs head though
graceful wolf
holy moly 10 damage, how are you ever meant to kill anything with a dryo now
You aren't
ocean glade
@tacit oriole I love it, they really needed the nerfs especially teno bite! and why would a dryo kill anything in the first place lol
tacit oriole
dryo could kill stego if you were good enough lol
also there are leg hitboxes now, 75% damage
graceful wolf
But why. It should run away. It is not a veggie raptor lol
tacit oriole
dryo vs utah was an absolute hoot if you were good enough
especially if they kept trying to pin you
ocean glade
i really love that they listen to the community ❤️
tacit oriole
also say goodbye to ptera killing anything other than fish now
ocean glade
even though updates could be way more frequent they really did what the community wanted
ocean glade
how much did they reduce utah growth time?
tacit oriole
confirmed deino alt-bite uses 10% stam
tacit oriole
nobody will ever choose dryo now though, little sad
you'll see a lot less ptera too
ocean glade
true :/ can still be used as a scout in mixpacks i guess but not very fun to play
i like the speed reduction to all dinos aswell
some felt so boosted
tacit oriole
if you want a mixpack scout you'll just take a ptera though
ocean glade
yeah for sure
ocean glade
im gonna time utah growth now
tacit oriole
water now has a weird short-distance transparency, looks kinda janky from the air
ocean glade
hmm gonna try it out, really excited tbh
tacit oriole
will make fishing at pond easier with carnos
utah turn speed also nerfed
hard to know how teno vs utah will go now, I feel like utahs are going to have a harder time even with the bite nerf
graceful wolf
how much did they reduce utah growth time?
5 mins, 70 min til full adult
tacit oriole
you now get an auditory warning when you are alt tabed and drowning as a deino, +1 there
fish no longer trigger water-sense though
and they made it a lot easier to float at the surface
Teno now has the same speed as utahs - 46.8
tacit oriole
haven't had that yet
wallowable mud is now a significantly different colour - used to be a darker green/brown, now it's a bright tan colour
most wallow animations feel faster, too
carmine charm
What??? Deino got an HP BUFF ??????
Deinosuchus
Max Health
Starting Health reduced.
Max Health increased.
Blood Pool
Starting Blood Pool reduced.
Max Blood Pool increased.
Is this a joke?
ocean glade
and it appears carnos can glitch their way up some rocks now
tacit oriole
they could do that before
doesn't seem any different around pond
maybe a little bit better
@carmine charm our testing so far says deino vs stego now heavily favours stego, so something else may be going on
carmine charm
and it appears carnos can glitch their way up some rocks now
Carnos could before the patch as well ... just many of them didnt know how 😄
carmine charm
<@!210791943083393026> our testing so far says deino vs stego now heavily favour...
Ah okay! That's interesting
Hmm, lot of good changes tho! Im happy that devs finally decided to give us something so we can test these things
tacit oriole
Stego got a health buff from 4000 to 6000
combined with carno bite nerf from 350 to 200 means stegos are super safe against carnos now
slight nerf to stego tail damage to 1250 from 1300, but looks like their stam regen got a buff
tenos get additional headshot bonuses for tail slams and kicks - 2x (usually 1.5x) against carnos/deinos, 3x (usually 2x) against stegos
HUGE buff to stegos
utah pounce has been mostly fixed, you can reliably get away from stegos now
but it feels like it does less overall bleed damage
so tldr is overall tenos and stegos are way, way stronger now
frosty heron
What a joke of update then 😂
golden coral
@tacit orioleCan you do your own changelog with all of that? Also with description on how it was tested, because right now you're just "saying stuff". Would be nice to know how you figure out this or that and how well it's tested to make sure it's accurate and all that.
tacit oriole
Yeah, myself and SilverFox have sheets with all the data
We figure it out through server admin commands
carmine charm
Yeah, kinda silly that they dont give us numbers ... Amazing Agouti! Nice work 🙂
tacit oriole
utah HP nerf from 1000 to 450, wowsers
carmine charm
erm, WHAT? 😮
tacit oriole
well, ptera do 15 damage now so not really lol
carmine charm
When you told that tail slam and bit dmg got nerfed, my first thought it was: "Finally im not gonna get 1shotted with UTAH..." well i was wrong
tacit oriole
teno and stego barely got nerfed, everything else got slammed
stego has more HP now too
frosty heron
I'll call this "Herbie main Update"
carmine charm
Teno was the APEX hunter in the game. .... and they nerfing still everything around it
tacit oriole
tenos are the biggest threat to stegos now haha
frosty heron
I'm fine with Stego but Tenos getting buffed is the most stupid shit ever done balance wise
carmine charm
so sad that as a carnivore you are forced to fight against all other carnivores , because there is no way you can hunt down a herbivore
tacit oriole
tailslam does 900 damage to stego head (it gets 3x multiplier) while carno bite does 500 (normal 2x)
tenos can kill carnos in one stun barrage now too, I think
if they get 3x headshot
frosty heron
tenos can kill carnos in one stun barrage now too, I think
Can you test that out please, that would be pretty ridiculous
golden coral
I'll call this "Herbie main Update"
Then I guess every other has been carni main updates ^^
frosty heron
Then I guess every other has been carni main updates ^^
Not really, Utah since update 2 only got nerfs
golden coral
Not really, Utah since update 2 only got nerfs
Hardly. Up until the hitbox change (and that was more of an issue with the dismount), utah was just fine. From the very beginning they were OP compared to teno, if you'll recall how it looked back then.
tacit oriole
Can you test that out please, that would be pretty ridiculous
3 slams puts a carno on 11% if you get headshots, so nearly
frosty heron
3 slams puts a carno on 11% if you get headshots, so nearly
Ough... Did also Carno Stam got any worse?
tacit oriole
a little, but good news is carno charge does decent damage now
frosty heron
Hardly. Up until the hitbox change (and that was more of an issue with the dismo...
It was indeed OP but since then it only got nerfs, dismount Stun, nerfed weight etc, there's no update where all Carnis got buffed this much ever
frosty heron
a little, but good news is carno charge does decent damage now
If it still takes ages to activate it, it will be still useless
tacit oriole
about 500 damage for a carno charge, and you get headshot bonuses
frosty heron
Problem with charge is not damage, is the amount of distance you need to activate it
tacit oriole
it seems a lot easier to trigger now, and you need far less distance to do it
tacit oriole
Anyways Utah hp makes me wonder if it gets 2 shooted by Carnos now
I'll test it but yes, charge should 1-shot utahs and body bites will be 2-shot
frosty heron
I'll test it but yes, charge should 1-shot utahs and body bites will be 2-shot
If that's the case, goodbye Utah, worst playable in the game besides Hypsi and probably Dryo
Fixed pounce is not a good deal if it deals less bleed
tacit oriole
another stego buff: hitboxes now count as the majority hit, not the highest touched - so how it used to work is even if 5% of your bite hitbox touched the head, it counted as a headshot
it was how deinos got headshots from behind
now though it needs to be majority head to be a headshot
ocean glade
is there something wacky with the feeding aswell? just ate a croc same size as me as a utah and it barely filled me up halfway
frosty heron
Which means Stegos fishing Deinos again :D
frosty heron
yeah deinos get wrecked by stegos now
tacit oriole
another stego buff: biting their back legs now counts as legshots (75% damage) instead of body
lol
if anyone was curious, it's 13 headbites to kill an afk stego with a carno now (used to be 6)
frosty heron
Worst update balance wise to be honest
golden coral
Remains to be seen when everything is tested
tacit oriole
full utah pounce duration - no buck - on a carno does about 30% hp damage, and not a lethal amount of bleed
frosty heron
full utah pounce duration - no buck - on a carno does about 30% hp damage, and n...
Before the update it was dealing about 55% damage to the blood pool
tacit oriole
even with the carno full sprinting after the pounce it's still above half when it starts healing
carmine charm
@tacit oriole , will you share the doc in the future?
vagrant inlet
Seems odd to make stego into an apex balance-wise when there’s 0 apexes to hunt it
tacit oriole
Yup it's freely available, I'll throw you a link when it's done
going to be very very hard to kill a stego now, has double effective HP vs carno, quadrauple vs utah, probably around double vs deino
also stegos can 1-shot carnos now
if they get a headshot
golden coral
I don't think stego would have more health vs a deino
That's not possible if they are following the same formula
tacit oriole
stego has 6000 hp (up from 4000) but head hitboxes are much harder to get
deinos typically get leg shots now, which is 75% damage
tailswipes are a bit harder to get headshots with now though for things attacking from behind - used to be the highest box in the swipe arc, now it appears to be the first part of the body it touches
golden coral
Deino also got health increase though?
tacit oriole
I believe so - 8000 up from 6000, I'll test it now though
golden coral
And leg shots would go for any critter, right?
tacit oriole
has been for those I've tested so far (carnos stegos tenos
golden coral
Alright
frosty heron
also stegos can 1-shot carnos now
This gotta be a joke
tacit oriole
Confirmed, deinos now follow the same pattern (HP = weight), so they have 8000 up from 6000
tacit oriole
<:TI_Wheeze:735343241175629824> This gotta be a joke
Nup, they dealt about 1900 damage headshot before, but carnos had 2000 hp so they lived
now carnos have 1800 to match their weight so 🤷♂️
frosty heron
Well, time to go back to Legacy
Wonder if after this patch people will keep posting stuff about Stego being weak
carmine charm
yes they will... Hello kitty players will still die 😄
vagrant inlet
Probably
I mean this is what you get when you put apexes in a roster where the next largest animals are pseudo-mids without any inhibitions on their power
carmine charm
@tacit oriole , is a full pounce on a UTAH will still be lethal?
golden coral
Doubtful. If stego is properly powerful it shouldn't be much of an issue. At least until we can get a proper overhaul of how the stego works. But that would involve all sorts of mechanic changes and stuff.
tacit oriole
<@!117186041248481283> , is a full pounce on a UTAH will still be lethal?
not to a carno, teno, deino, stego
golden coral
Besides, I'm still waiting to see if a pack of utahs can take a stego or not.
carmine charm
not to a carno, teno, deino, stego
i mean if a Utah pin an another utah
golden coral
@tacit orioleCan you test what they mean with "no longer pin anything unless below or at weight" and then say "besides hypsi and utah"?
tacit oriole
<@!117186041248481283>Can you test what they mean with "no longer pin anything u...
I missed that, utah used to be able to pin things slightly above their weight - I'm guessing they are talking about juvy utahs
tacit oriole
a 30% utah (90kg) cannot pin a 100% dryo (120kg)
golden coral
I missed that, utah used to be able to pin things slightly above their weight - ...
So even a tiny utah would pin a hypsi or a bigger utah? I'm confused on what it means.
tacit oriole
utahs can still pin everything under their weight
golden coral
You can't pin a heavier dryo, but can you pin a heavier utah?
tacit oriole
1 moment I'll check
golden coral
Or with hypsi vs baby utah
@tacit orioleChanged pounce to pin only same or smaller weight targets besides Utahraptor and Hypsilophodon.
This one I'm confused about it
Speaking of testing, does the new grouping work?
tacit oriole
a 60% utah cannot pin a FG utah, but a 65% (280kg) can
tacit oriole
Well, a full pin from a 65% utah does about 1/3rd HP damage to a FG so you can't straight kill it
golden coral
Makes sense, but you can inflict bleed, and more importantly, shut them down
tacit oriole
a FG utah can't quite kill another FG utah with a pin
golden coral
Assuming there's still no counter to pin
So it would still allow for a group of smaller utahs to take on a larger one if they need, is what I'm thinking
frosty heron
a 60% utah cannot pin a FG utah, but a 65% (280kg) can
This is another kick in the ass to Utahs
tacit oriole
a FG full length pin to a FG does 88% damage (12% hp remains)
can't see anyone playing utahs this patch tbh
golden coral
Why not?
tacit oriole
Also tenos can 1-shot utahs with tail-slam if they get a headshot
golden coral
Where are you getting the extra head bonus damage and stuff from? Is that just the hitbox multipliers or something else?
tacit oriole
if they miss a headshot it only takes two to the body, so they are dead regardless
with admin commands you can see exact damage numbers, so you can just use the abilities and see
frosty heron
can't see anyone playing utahs this patch tbh
Thing I probably won't do, instead I'll play Stego and will go murder everything on the map
Not even Carno is worth to play
tacit oriole
tenos are way stronger now too, all you need to do is dodge the charge and you win
frosty heron
Not a 50/50 matchup now then
tacit oriole
not even close sadly, there goes my teno vs carno teamfight tournaments
frosty heron
It's funny Teno has the upper hand when it weights 200 kg less
tacit oriole
unless I make the tenos 80% grown
frosty heron
Also did you tested the stamina on both? Patch says both got nerfed
tacit oriole
haven't checked stam, I'll do that now
frosty heron
Carno sprint stamina cost increased
tacit oriole
deino alt-bite is 10% stam
frosty heron
So I don't know if Tenos can chase Carnos like before
golden coral
At least deino alt-bite is finally fixed. Does it do more damage or the same as normal bite?
Not sure if all alt attacks do more than their regular attack
tacit oriole
tenos are faster and carnos are slower, so it's easier now
carnos can still outrun them but they are a fair bit closer
carno alt-bite now does 1.25x damage and has a faster attack speed, so it is more useful, but you end up hitting leg hitboxes half the time
which means less overall damage
tailslam is about 10% stam, kicks about 7.5% I think
ocean glade
ok game is literally unplayable til they fix the rubberbanding/fps lag, gonna take a break. holy shit how could they mess up this much
tacit oriole
it might be an issue specific to your server, mine has been fine
ocean glade
really? ill try another one
tacit oriole
a lot lower player count than officials though
ocean glade
wasnt playing on official either
tacit oriole
yeah, tenos got buffed from 45 to 46.8, everything else got a nerf
tacit oriole
except stego, they are still 26.2
golden coral
But 10% tail slam
frosty heron
tenos are faster and carnos are slower, so it's easier now
Oh my lord
golden coral
That should make them be more cautious
tacit oriole
tenos have exact same speed as utahs now
mental roost
tacit oriole
utahs got nerfed from 52 to 46.8, to go with their hp nerf from 1000 to 450 and bite from 130 to 55
feelsbad
mental roost
How much did juvenile/ sub adult deino speed get nerfed?
ocean glade
well thats basically killing the dino lol
tacit oriole
How much did juvenile/ sub adult deino speed get nerfed?
Can't say exactly sorry, never got numbers on that before - FG utah is 23s from empty to full now though
ocean glade
sry wrong forum perhaps but my game feels a lot more grainy/blurry after the patch, ive tried a lot of different settings but cant seem to fix it, anyone knows?
golden coral
@tacit orioleYou said stego wins over deino, under what circumstances?
mental roost
Wish me luck boys, I'm going in to see how bad it is.
tacit oriole
<@!117186041248481283>You said stego wins over deino, under what circumstances?
A good deino used to be able to reliably kill a stego, even two of them if they lunged inside their hitbox (so they got headshots and stego got tailbase shots)
frosty heron
utahs got nerfed from 52 to 46.8, to go with their hp nerf from 1000 to 450 and ...
Basically Utah is obsolete playable and it's not worth to play
Unless you enjoy sit and bark on top of rocks and eat carcass
tacit oriole
now stegos have more hp, deinos have smaller lunge, and the hitbox rego doesn't let them get headshots from behind anymore (which are 2x on a stego)
deinos also got a speed nerf from 24.8 (faster than a stego) to 18 (significantly slower)
so they can't stay inside the stego hitbox anymore
you also can't alt-bite spam to keep them slowed, as it costs stam
golden coral
A good deino used to be able to reliably kill a stego, even two of them if they ...
Yes, I know. You could kill stegos on land with deino, stupidly enough. So do they win from the shoreline? Smaller lunge? Is this on land or from water?
frosty heron
Stego fishing rods will show up again
golden coral
Not if the deino can still hunt them from the shoreline, or at least inflict massive damage there
tacit oriole
Yes, I know. You could kill stegos on land with deino, stupidly enough. So do th...
Water lunge feels the same (not a deino main) but land lunge is nothing
frosty heron
Not if the deino can still hunt them from the shoreline, or at least inflict mas...
But Stego will always win, unless it gets a disvantage scenario which it will lead to a 1 dead Croc at least
wild cove
What I don't get is why they nerfed Hypsi health and peck. As if Hypsi needed any nerfs lol
golden coral
What shallows are we talking about?
Also keep in mind, shallows won't be a thing in the proper map I don't think
wild cove
The ones between center and east rivers
tacit oriole
shallows between swamp river and pond river are pretty much unchanged, but deinos are way too slow now
and can't alt-bite spam against carnos
golden coral
Water lunge looks okay to me I think, don't really recall that much either but yeah
Not sure on land lunge, but then why would you lunge on land
golden coral
But Stego will always win, unless it gets a disvantage scenario which it will le...
That remains to be seen though
graceful wolf
@flat apex You just gotta now where to look and follow the sounds. I rarely kill players and able to survive only on Ai
wild cove
Also keep in mind, shallows won't be a thing in the proper map I don't think
Shallows are still a thing now though
tacit oriole
Also deino alt-bite has been nerfed from 625 down to 500 (same as normal bite), but it's not that hard to make sure you get body shots instead of leg shots
golden coral
Since when did it have higher damage before?
cedar shore
Never lol
golden coral
Well Agouti said it's been nerfed so, not sure on that one
frosty heron
Wasn't it 500 before?
frosty heron
I'm sure someone said alt and normal bite was dealing the same damage before
tacit oriole
I tested last patch, alt def did more
hard to prove now and a bit of a moot point though
still have the log somewhere if someone wants it
wild cove
Hypsi damage nerfed from 15 to 5 Why does it even have peck honestly
wild cove
Not sure what its health was before or now but considering it already died to one-shot from everything, I bet its stupid ridiculous
frosty heron
Hypsi change honestly doesn't matter much as that thing never could kill anything before
tacit oriole
ptera nerf to 15 damage though... man
wild cove
Wrong, it could kill small raptors in 1v1 if you know how to fight
tacit oriole
no more no-fish ptera runs for me
tacit oriole
you can't even kill AI dryos anymore haha
wild cove
Oh yeah I've killed AI dryo as Hypsi before just to see if I could
Took a lot of pecks but it could be done
It wouldn't be that bad except for the fact Hypsi ONLY has peck
golden coral
And that would be why it's nerfed. You're not supposed to do it. But people forget this isn't a fighting game. Original dryo had no attacks at all, back in the day. It was still fine.
wild cove
So it literally has no way to even attempt to defend itself
In terms of a fight scenario
golden coral
If you're in a fight, you've already messed up? :p
wild cove
Point being why does it even have an attack if the attack is useless
golden coral
Because it can peck other hypsis or tiny babies.
wild cove
Its just a little silly to give it an attack and then make it unusable. Wasted resources
Even before nerf it was hard af to kill other Hypsi lol
frosty heron
Well who cares. Even Utah which is supposed to hunt stuff now it has to do Hypsi stuff, run and jump in the first rock it finds
golden coral
I do think everything should have an attack, but that doesn't mean it should be useful except maybe for one or two things, and that's about it, depending on the critter.
wild cove
I mean I'm not expecting to facetank carnos lol
Should at least reasonably be able to 1v1 a fresh spawn raptor but with raptor toolkit like pounce that's basically out of the question
golden coral
I think you can, though if even a baby utah can pin you, maybe not
Depends on if that pin/pounce does much or not
But every single juvie has no damage at all now
tacit oriole
Utah alt-bite (the front slash) didn't get nerfed as hard as the bite, 100 damage down from 165
so it's about double bite damage now
golden coral
Any stamina changes?
tacit oriole
not noticable, feels like they can run further now
golden coral
I meant for attack use
tacit oriole
slash feels about the same stam wise
I never properly checked stamina before (outside of stego/teno tail attacks)
wild cove
But every single juvie has no damage at all now
Right but the problem is that Hypsi isn't a juvie. Its a full adult, fighting a fresh spawn
tacit oriole
hypsi can kill a baby utah if it's really quick, but they will outgrow them in under 10 minutes
golden coral
Right but the problem is that Hypsi isn't a juvie. Its a full adult, fighting a ...
My point was that as a grown hypsi, you can probably fight off hatchlings
tacit oriole
all babies (under 5%) are slower and have weaker biteforce than hypsis, teno/stego tail attacks aside... but that's a small window
hyspi blind isn't useless either
but yeah like dryo can't see anybody playing them long term
golden coral
I think dryo might be more popular now, apparently the dodge works better.
tacit oriole
feels the same to me
golden coral
And now I forgot what I wanted to ask you.. damn it...
tacit oriole
and I've played a fair bit of dryo in our events
golden coral
If the dodge no longer stops you moving, that's so much better
tacit oriole
still does, but you start running again pretty quickly
golden coral
Oh.. well then.. but is it better than before or?
wild cove
but yeah like dryo can't see anybody playing them long term
Honestly I think that'll come down to how well they can perform on the blind and outrun / escape department with grown utah and carno. Hypsi seems like it might have gotten a tiiiiny speed buff, and utah and carno should have gotten a speed nerf going by patch notes.
tacit oriole
Oh.. well then.. but is it better than before or?
I would say exactly the same
wild cove
Too much rubberbanding and not enough grown carni's for me to say yet though
mental roost
Just make the Dyro dodge a dodge from souls/monster hunter... I-frame carno and rex bites like a true chad.
wild cove
Honestly though the main thing that has me concerned on the Hypsi health pool decrease is fall damage resist. I'm not sure though if fall damage percentage stays the same based upon distance or if it just takes a raw number chunk out.
tacit oriole
Oh.. well then.. but is it better than before or?
just for you: https://i.imgur.com/OAua7iO.mp4
mental roost
Jesus christ...how much did they nerf Dyro's run speed?
golden coral
Thank you! It looks a touch better, I'll try it out!
tacit oriole
Jesus christ...how much did they nerf Dyro's run speed?
55.4 down to 46.8, they now have the same as teno and utah
tacit oriole
yeah, without fractures it's a bit of a mess
sleek obsidian
What’s carno speed after the nerf?
tacit oriole
but they wanted the server hotfix I guess
mental roost
It'd still be great if the juveniles of some of the animals were faster and had more stam than the adults....
tacit oriole
What’s carno speed after the nerf?
61.7 down to 55.5
mental roost
D a m n
wild cove
Yeah the one thing I'm kinda iffy on besides Hypsi is the "We've made Juvies much more fragile" bit. I mean I get that they're not adult dinos but most babies and juvies were already fragile anyway
golden coral
Speed nerfs are good I think, helps with performance, or should. Nvm the new performane issues, I think that's cause of other changes.
sleek obsidian
61.7 down to 55.5
Damn
frosty heron
Speed nerfs are good yeah, until you notice Teno is as fast as an Utah now
golden coral
Yeah the one thing I'm kinda iffy on besides Hypsi is the "We've made Juvies muc...
I don't know what my tailswing does on stego, but my biteforce is 10, and I'm 30% grown xD
frosty heron
Because for some reason it got buffed speed not nerfed 🙃
mental roost
-The small(juvenile, hatchling, sub adult) deinos definitely didn't need a speed nerf . . but tenoto , dyro and utah all at the same speed is just beyond cursed..
golden coral
Speed nerfs are good yeah, until you notice Teno is as fast as an Utah now
Yeah, I'm not sure on their choice of all the speeds. But I will still stand by that speed nerfs in general is good for hitboxes/performance on those accounts. And that goes for all critters. Doesn't mean you have to make teno and utah equally fast ^^
wild cove
Teno speed was nerfed according to dev notes
tacit oriole
I don't know what my tailswing does on stego, but my biteforce is 10, and I'm 30...
Tail damage should be linear to bite, so that should be 250 right now
sleek obsidian
Guess I’m not touching utah ever again
golden coral
Tail damage should be linear to bite, so that should be 250 right now
Alright. Good to know if it works like that.
wild cove
From Teno's section:
"Movement speeds
-Sprint speed reduced."
frosty heron
From Teno's section:
"Movement speeds
-Sprint speed reduced."
@tacit oriole Tested that and it seems to be wrong
Teno got speed increased
wild cove
Then it should be reported to the devs as a bug or an oversight
tacit oriole
<@117186041248481283> Tested that and it seems to be wrong
OK, they must have changed it - thanks. I'll test
You were correct, 31% stego (10 bite force, 20% of FG) does 183 tail damage (14.6% of FG)
Killing deinos as carno takes a lot of patience now, alt-bite stam makes it harder for deinos but they have more hp and carnos deal less damage... it's almost like a utah vs stego fight
frosty heron
Well at least it's now possible, before the update Deinos just had to spam alt attack, they were safe
golden coral
How much patience/time?
tacit oriole
5-10 minutes
golden coral
....
tacit oriole
for 2 carnos
golden coral
Well that's pathetic
If it isn't at least 20 min, don't talk about patience or anything
dusky surge
I think it's a bit weird that the small game hunter can kill a fucking deino, but im assuming this is rare at best
tacit oriole
you can take more hits as carno too with the hitbox rego changes, heaps of bites end up being base-of-tail instead of body
golden coral
Not that I mind that deino has to be wary on land, it should, but that's just not a long or demanding hunt :p
frosty heron
golden coral
If that's how stego / utah goes down, then nothing really changed
tacit oriole
it's hard to kill a deino through damage but you can bleed them out
dusky surge
so fucking weird that carno gets a buff to his special ability, deino gets a buff to his health and utah gets nerfed to... Everything. The "use pounce" argument makes sense on paper, but you get punished to shit for missing a single pounce lmao
worldly venture
I think it's a bit weird that the small game hunter can kill a fucking deino, bu...
Not anymore it can't 
tacit oriole
pounce recovery is a bit better @dusky surge
golden coral
Bleed a deino out, did it lose it's bleed resistance?
tacit oriole
if you pounce on the front of a stego you can get away safely most of the tiem
golden coral
So pounce slotting is a thing still?
tacit oriole
yeah
frosty heron
tacit oriole
but the stagger on jumping is lower
golden coral
.... Right. With that, anyone complaining about utah is invalid
It requires no skill or planning or anything then if you can still just slot on like that.
tacit oriole
carno/utah are basically "use your special ability or be outclassed"
same for teno, really
golden coral
Well that's the point of them I think. If they give stego a special ability, I imaigne it'll have to use that too
tacit oriole
but idk how solo utah are going to kill anything anymore
dusky surge
but idk how solo utah are going to kill anything anymore
hope their prey is either small or juvenile
primal dove
but idk how solo utah are going to kill anything anymore
they never did in evrima and will never do so
tacit oriole
a pin with full stamina does about 400 damage btw
golden coral
So a solo utah can't hunt juvies or dryos or anything?
tacit oriole
so as long as your target is significantly smaller than you (weighs less than 400kg) you can kill it
with a pin
frosty heron
but idk how solo utah are going to kill anything anymore
Feed on fresh juveniles only it seems, that's the Utah people wanted
Strong as a Ptera
primal dove
Feed on fresh juveniles only it seems, that's the Utah people wanted
bc it was "too strong"
worldly venture
Yo, I finally got up to 60 frames with the new update, this is a literal achievement
tacit oriole
solo utahs should be able to kill carnos up to about 40% grown pretty easily, at least
frosty heron
Utah too Stronk plz make it so mosquitos deal more damage
tacit oriole
as long as they are also solo of course
primal dove
uhh wait nvm
worldly venture
*Utah too Stronk plz make it so mosquitos deal more damage*
55 damage = can't-do-fuck-all anymore-a-saurus
primal dove
understood ur message wrong @frosty heron
frosty heron
It's fine
primal dove
U should at least have to fear a pack of utahs but rn a pack of utahs is just like a swarm of mosquitos
frosty heron
I think if they add the Goat from diets it will be stronger than our current Utah
primal dove
i mean where is the skill ceiling if u get 1 shot by anything and deal the damage of a child
mental roost
Human child does more damage than current Utah
primal dove
im begging u ppl of the isle just realize how stupidly underpowered this thing is
mental roost
Bet.
primal dove
Bet.
frosty heron
Human child does more damage than current Utah
He's right you kno
mental roost
I actually enjoyed Solo utah when I played it a little while ago..but now it seems like that's pointless, rip.
Mercenaries run around the isle, killing utahs and carnos by biting them.
primal dove
i always went hunting ai or juvi players till i found a pack and then we could start taking down things
mental roost
It was fun bullying small deinos, rip.
primal dove
Rest in peace my fellow utah, may Raptorjesus welcome you in Raptorheaven
swift beacon
Ah, yes, clearly, taking the damage values of this game as scientific gospel is logical and not at all stupid as fuck
mental roost
"Utah seems fun... I hate how it looks and sounds in-game but the gameplay is fun.. maybe I'll play it next time."
-Next update nerfing it into the ground:
primal dove
it has been buried so low
swift beacon
Good
wild cove
Tbh the nerfs do seem a little excessive for some dinos
primal folio
They should nerf rubberbanding. Most OP dino in the game tbh.
wild cove
I'm glad some dinos did get some buffs like Stego, and I say that as not really playing Stego, but adding onto that nerfing Stego's main predator on the current roster into the ground seems a bit on the excessive side
Also the fact they apparently made Utah smaller to justify nerfing it into the ground
wild cove
Seems like you might as well
swift beacon
Not sure the Utah sizedown had anything to do with its nerfs
primal dove
ill become a goat main
wild cove
I mean if they're adjusting values for the size of each dino species, it probably does
swift beacon
🤷
golden coral
Delete Utah and replace it with Velo
You got hypsi for that! :p
frosty heron
You got hypsi for that! :p
But Hypsi doesn't pounce 
swift beacon
Why should Velo?
mental roost
May as well main rubber banding this update. Only dino outside of stego worth growing.
primal dove
n i c e.
swift beacon
Also why not?
Could make it a kickboxer instead to let it punch really well for its in its own "lane" of 1-120 kg, but lack means of doing reliable damage outside of that
tacit oriole
New effect from over-eating
swift beacon
That's been around
tacit oriole
your food bar didn't go down like that though
swift beacon
Ah
mental roost
E w
tacit oriole
you have to over-eat a lot more now to trigger it, too
wild cove
-Global health/blood rework. Health now matches character weight, which will hopefully make character stats feel less artificially inflated.
-Global damage changes. Damage was adjusted to better match the health changes."
Utah: Adult Mass reduced
Utah is the only dino on the roster who got downsized
swift beacon
Weird flex but ok
tacit oriole
apex more apex, low tiers more low tier, balance: ✅
golden coral
@tacit orioleSo if you over-eat, you lose all your current food now?
tacit oriole
^ Correct
golden coral
Ooh, that's interesting.
tacit oriole
teno mains will be happy though lol
golden coral
I think it is. Makes overeating properly bad for you, will probably really make you wary with diets in the future.
Low food = bleed worse I think
frosty heron
apex more apex, low tiers more low tier, balance: ✅
I wouldn't say this is the case in this patch
mental roost
Did juvi/hatchling stego's head always shrink like doing some animations?
primal dove
at least we have the JP 1 Calls for Utahs now
wraith linden
that's a good thing?
primal dove
yessir
golden coral
Depends on who you ask!
mental roost
-The JP raptor calls make me want to push them to extinction
Anyone else remember the Utah's original triple broadcast call?(when it was first released, and for progression)
That was a fun call..
mental roost
-Simpler times..
worldly venture
Progression
golden coral
@tacit orioleDid you check what all new health values are, if you can do that?
tacit oriole
health matches weight for everything now
worldly venture
Yep
golden coral
So, dryo and smaller stuff dies easier then?
tacit oriole
which is a nerf for utah, carno, teno, buff for stego & deino
worldly venture
Even though the stats were fine as is
golden coral
Dryo nerf too, and hypsi, right?
tacit oriole
carno nerf from 2000 to 1800 doesn't sound like much but it lets stego's one-shot them now, actually huge
worldly venture
Hypsi has like 20 health now
tacit oriole
yeah hypsi 20kg/20hp, they can't live through a utah bite anymore
worldly venture
carno nerf from 2000 to 1800 doesn't sound like much but it lets stego's one-sho...
Wait does it actually?
golden coral
Hopefully food matches that, so no more surviving on smalls all the time
tacit oriole
stego headshot is around 1900 damage
worldly venture
Fuck this game so much man
That's ridiculous
golden coral
That something you can test Agouti?
tacit oriole
yeah, tested and confirmed
golden coral
How food values work, how much something gives, on size?
tacit oriole
oh, food? yeah eventually
worldly venture
stego headshot is around 1900 damage
I thought it was like 2.5k?
Or is that with the changes
tacit oriole
base stego tail damage is 1250 (down from 1300)
headshot multiplier is 1.5x for everything except stego
so 1250*1.5 = 1875 for a carno
worldly venture
Not a big deal with the damage
tacit oriole
stegos have 2x headshot multiplier (as in, hits against their head are 2x) so stego deals 2500 to another stego
worldly venture
If deino didn't have 8k health now atleast 
wild cove
yeah hypsi 20kg/20hp, they can't live through a utah bite anymore
I mean they already couldn't live through a utah bite from a full adult lol
tacit oriole
they could for a tail hit, but yeah
dryos are a bit buffed against them though, 120hp now so they can take 2 hits and live
golden coral
What did it look like before?
Pretty sure dryo had more health before the patch
So this should be a nerf for dryo, make it weaker vs utah I think?
true basalt
Dryo is so bad now. It was really fun while it was fast
golden coral
How so?
true basalt
You could out run everything and go around biting them it was so fun. Now there really slow and even less people are going to play them
its sad cuz dryo is so fun
golden coral
I think the whole outrunning them was part of the issue. You were never at risk really.
But not sure how fast dryo is vs utah/carno now, or how much stamina it has
mental roost
Dryo, Tenoto and Utah are all the same speed now...
46.8/km or something like that.
true basalt
I mean the whole thing about dryo is its ment to be fast. Im pretty sure the name means fast lizard.
tacit oriole
So this should be a nerf for dryo, make it weaker vs utah I think?
Yeah, dryos can't fight utahs at all now with their health and speed debuff
mental roost
Scroll up for more details regarding that.. Agouti's got a bunch of information already posted.
true basalt
Its it only defence in running
tacit oriole
If I can stop trying to work out how to kill stego as carno I'll finish the spreadsheet for y'all
golden coral
Dryo, Tenoto and Utah are all the same speed now...
Please don't spell dryo as dyro... For both of our sakes, and my sanity!
golden coral
Yeah, dryos can't fight utahs at all now with their health and speed debuff
What's the speed/stam in dryo vs utah and dryo vs carno, if you know?
mental roost
Wait shit, I spelled it as Dyro and didn't even notice..
golden coral
Dyro, canro, utha, tento.. xD
mental roost
The legend of Dyro series, am I right..
true basalt
How is the dryo army ment to cope now
golden coral
I don't think you're meant to have a dryo army xD
true basalt
Too bad there already is one
golden coral
Then fight to the last and accept your fate :p
narrow spade
true basalt
Yes indeed i have
true basalt
:3
tacit oriole
if you didn't know they made 2 call have long/short
short just does the call, long does party invite/accept
golden coral
Good!
tacit oriole
What's the speed/stam in dryo vs utah and dryo vs carno, if you know?
Dryo and utah have same speed similar stam, carno is faster with less stam
golden coral
Alright
tacit oriole
(removed due to error, see further down) still need to get all the locational damage multipliers, stamina, and bleed figures
golden coral
You're doing a good job, much appreciated!
tacit oriole
if people can gather grow times that would be much appreciated
grow, thirst (100->0), drink (0->100), hunger (100->0), sprint times, that sort of thing
brittle storm
didnt they state in the notes that the deino health got increased?
wild cove
Went from I believe 6000 to 8000
brittle storm
wasnt it at 8000 before?
tacit oriole
negative, deino was 6k stego was 4k
brittle storm
oh lol oke then
hollow canyon
both of them had 2k less hp than weight
wide cosmos
Weight does not = HP
brittle storm
so that means the carno need 30 bites to kill a stego now? and the stego could maybe 1 shot a carno?
hollow canyon
Yes, Stego can oneshot a Carno now with a headshot. As for Carno killing a Stego you'd probably need at least 16 headshots to kill it.
golden coral
Weight does not = HP
It does now, so now there's some coherency in how the balance works, on that account at least.
golden coral
so that means the carno need 30 bites to kill a stego now? and the stego could m...
No, carno needs 15-16 headbites, stego now one-shots on head, but not on body.
tacit oriole
I tested everything except hypsi and ptera, weight now equals HP
golden coral
Pretty sure it should go for hypsi and ptera too, but you can test that later :p
tacit oriole
stego headshot multiplier is 2x, so carnos do 500 damage with alt-bite, 6k hp means 13 if you are quick enough
wild cove
They did mention nerfing hypsi HP and blood pool so
brittle storm
i mean 15-16 headbites is still pretty many compared to the low chance of getting one-shotted... sounds a bit whack
wild cove
Honestly it probably won't make much difference cuz we already died so easy before anyway
tacit oriole
yeah carno vs stego is super worse now, even the ability to be 1-shot now would be bad enough
wide cosmos
So Utah went from 1000hp to 450hp ?!
wild cove
I mean unless the devs make Stego part of Carno's diet reqs officially and give some contradicting confirmation, Carno isn't supposed to hunt stego anyway
tacit oriole
which is fine, but now nothing can kill stegos
brittle storm
yep
wide cosmos
Whats the point of playing Utah, you'll get one shoted by anything and everything
mental roost
Okay so Stego's a fucking BEAST when it comes to healing now..
tacit oriole
plus tenos have been buffed, so a couple of stegos and tenos are pretty much unkillable
mental roost
My 48% stego killed a ...50-60% deino.. had 10-15% hp left over... and already healed up after about..20-25 minutes??
tacit oriole
utahs can't even live through the teno 3-slam combo