#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 261 of 1

sinful cove
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Lmao cant reliably bait with an attack that has awful coverage and is easy to dodge for an extremely agile small tier

thorn spire
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Yeah, I like being carnivore because I'm an offensive player, most people are. Though I wouldn't mind cracking utah skulls as pachy.

sinful cove
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You basically have to hope the utah messes up or the lag extends your attack

thorn spire
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No, I meant dont fall for the utahs baits

golden coral
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Dryo is perfectly viable, and way too lethal, tenonto is very good, stego is pretty crap, hypsi is just a living meme :p On the carni side, deino is OP, utahs are good if they dont use pounce on stego at least, and carnos are far as I know plenty good too. Pteras just.. are a bother

thorn spire
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And the utah has to hope the stego messes up and not play well

sinful cove
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Not really since its attack is an easy dodge

supple basin
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Yes and that is kinda sad because you can have so much fun hunting for instance a solo tenon as 2 or 3 utahs or solo carno. When the fight is balanced damn, the fact that the hunt is not easy makes it so fun! And as juv stego I was so happy some random juv carno came try to eat me and got wrecked by my tail XD

sinful cove
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It has surprisingly poor coverage

thorn spire
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Use your terrain to your advantage, get around a tree, or into a Bush that obscures where your head and tail is, make the most of your dino.

golden coral
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@thorn spire15 headshots for a utah vs a stego, yes, it's doable, stego attack can be relatively easily baited and juked, especially the swings up near the head. Get another utah or two, and you can take a stego that does not hide it's head in a rock without too much difficulty

sinful cove
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So hide your head in a rock because of one 500kg animal

supple basin
golden coral
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If stego had deinos survivability or tenontos combat ability, people would complain ever so much :p

thorn spire
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@thorn spire15 headshots for a utah vs a stego, yes, it's doable, stego attack can be relatively easily baited and juked, especially the swings up near the head. Get another utah or two, and you can take a stego that does not hide it's head in a rock without too much difficulty
@golden coral

I wasnt aware it was only 15, it seems to take fucking forever but I guess that's not counting raw hits but bleed aswell?

But that's the same scenario as two carnos vs a tenonto.

You just have to be ahead of the game and not fall for jukes. It's like that in most combat games.

sinful cove
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Oh yeah stego dehydrates like a worm in the sun lol

golden coral
thorn spire
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.because stego would be broken at that point, 1 shot + fast attacks?

How about no.

supple basin
golden coral
thorn spire
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But you're talking about a solo stego, if there are two or more it's much harder

golden coral
supple basin
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they are slow af and turning in place for them is hell

thorn spire
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2-3 utahs can easily beat damn near anything.

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That's just utah in a pack

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Even deino

golden coral
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... 3 utahs is not a pack

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Not when the max is 8 :p

sinful cove
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3 isnt really a pack that should take down 5+ hour animals, it is the easiest thing in the world to get 3 raptors together

thorn spire
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Anything more than 1 I count as packed

golden coral
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And no, a deino can take on an entire utah pack/carno pack and come out just fine

supple basin
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At some point in the game, the fact that people knows how to play their dino is always a big factor

golden coral
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And if it can't, it just goes bye bye into water

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Something a stego can not do

thorn spire
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And no, a deino can take on an entire utah pack/carno pack and come out just fine
@golden coral

My pack easily beat deinos, again it's about skill difference and whether or not u can call baits.

sinful cove
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Its kinda funny that deino bas better attack coverage on land than stego and doesnt even use stam for it

thorn spire
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Yeah deinos are punks

golden coral
sinful cove
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Hey let me spin like a beyblade for 0 stam

thorn spire
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Always retreating back into the water like the pond scum they are

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Yeah alt bite should cost stam on dieno

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Though deinos bite is weaker than stegos tail

sinful cove
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I like when they run into their safe space snd then 3 call like theyre the big tough river monster when they just ran away from something a fraction of their weight

golden coral
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To be fair, with how blood screen looks, I cant blame people for potentially panicking :p

thorn spire
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Lmfao, me too, damned cowards think they big on land till they get checked by some Raptors

alpine plover
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All of this wouldn’t be a problem if stego and deino weren’t in the game so early. Pseudo apex in update 2 and 3. That’s too much.

golden coral
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Or just balance them all out

supple basin
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well I agree that it can be annoying to not be able to defeat crocs on land, as a 4 utah packs we have pounced it 4 times in a raw without being touched ourselves (except one lost) but the dude still was abble to fly away T.T

golden coral
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Deino would just.. do what it does anyway, and you'd probably still be able to hunt stegos in 6-8 member packs

sinful cove
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They should have saved stego for later and made it stronger and added something smaller instead

thorn spire
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Deino won't be in 6 member packs whenever they fix grouping

sinful cove
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Now stego is a joke and in the game too early to be well balanced

golden coral
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@sinful coveThink it's cause it was meant as AI that it has odd attacks and not very good stats? :p

sinful cove
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Yeah certainly seems like it

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Shoulda added it with allo and added kentro first instead

alpine plover
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I wouldn’t mind if stego was A.I only tfgif

thorn spire
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Regardless of stegos introduction in what way would u buff it? It shits on almost everything. Buff its attack speed? By how much? Certainly it should still have delay enough for a creature to bait otherwise nothing could hunt it.

supple basin
thorn spire
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And it amazes me people still ask for deino to get buffed

alpine plover
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Deino definitely doesn’t need a buff

sinful cove
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“Give my water rex 20000n bite force!” Funny that some people unironically wanted it to have bite force in the thousands lol

alpine plover
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Rex killer

golden coral
alpine plover
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If only, kentro is awesome

thorn spire
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yes, they wanted it to be too to toe with rex

supple basin
thorn spire
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Kentro is a definite play for me

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A faster stego with more bleed + possible full counter.

sinful cove
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Collision damage kentro TI_Perfect

golden coral
thorn spire
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Lol,

sinful cove
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When stego has actual appropriate predators id just give it a good aoe swing

golden coral
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You'd still be able to bait attacks, and with utahs pounce now being "safe", they can hunt stegos in good sized packs over a decent amount of time with bleeding

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Oh yeah, I'd love to see a better attack, but as for balance right now

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I'd just up the stats, and fix the utah issue, and see how that changes things

thorn spire
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@golden coral ok, agreed, though I dont know how health works so I dont know much of how 6k health compares to other dinos.

golden coral
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Extra health would also remove the deino "bite through your ass" thing a little

sinful cove
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It is dumb how stego has a good chunk less hp than his weight but utah has double ho as his weigjt

golden coral
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So that's a sort of fix without having to bother with collision

frosty heron
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Weight doesn't equal HP, not here and not even in Legacy

sinful cove
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Utah hp could easily be lowered to 750 the carnos would be happy

frosty heron
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Make Utah have 500 hp and it will die 1 shot against anything, its for balance purposes

sinful cove
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I know it doesn’t but its dumb that a utah is such a tank for its size despite its physique

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No 500 is kinda harsh

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750 is fine

frosty heron
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Doubt Utahs are tanks if they die to Carnos with 2-3 hits depending on the locational

thorn spire
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Utah should be 1 shot from head by mid tiers +

2 shot from body by deino

3-4 shot from body by carno.

frosty heron
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I just wrecked 3 Utahs at once as Carno today when they attempted to pounce me, just bucking off

golden coral
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Tanks for their size I think is what Mira means

sinful cove
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Utah is in carnos prey range and it already gets oneshot by steg

golden coral
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So for that matter is dryo

sinful cove
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So it would just make it fit kore for its tier

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Yeah dryo is already a oneshot too plus he's a mobile machine, he doesnt need as much hp as he has

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Its kinda unnecessary

frosty heron
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The only thing Im uncapable to kill are the 2 Apexes no matter the numbers, 2 Stegos that have more IQ than room temperature are literally inmortal

sinful cove
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When more small animals come they should rebalance the HPs in general

thorn spire
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Utah is a high risk high reward dino

You can beat almost anything with skill but u can be oneshot by most things.

frosty heron
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And Deinos, God Deinos are hella OP

alpine plover
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Imagine if deino could drag in adult stegos pain

thorn spire
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Yes carno is damn near incapable of hunting stego lol

frosty heron
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It's capable only on numbers advantage

thorn spire
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Imagine if deino could drag in adult stegos :pain:
@alpine plover

Would like that very much /s

sinful cove
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Good thing that carno isnt supposed to hunt stego anyway lol

frosty heron
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But Stegos in groups. You can't die literally

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You will die to friendly fire if one of your dumb packmates decides so

thorn spire
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Cerato will hunt stego ;)

frosty heron
alpine plover
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Yeah, it’s pretty much impossible to kill stegos as carno, too big and your turn isn’t quick enough

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Utahs can, much more nimble

thorn spire
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Size ain't much of a problem, it's the fact u cant turn very well

frosty heron
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You can safe land bites by juking front/back attacks

alpine plover
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If you’re patient enough, Utah can solo stego

thorn spire
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"Bite the tip of stegos tail"

The best strat

frosty heron
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But a competent Stego will place their attacks and will sidejab you, not worth the risk

alpine plover
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awesome! I will try that!

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it will work definitely

frosty heron
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And anyways if you manage to do such "Boss Fight" the Stego will feed himself to Crocs when they're low on HP like all Stegos does

thorn spire
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Stego gameplay is such 50/50

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With each attack

frosty heron
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So honestly is not even worth to fight a Stego as Carno

alpine plover
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I really hate the jab attack for stego tbh

thorn spire
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Yeah I've seen that happen

alpine plover
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it just looks so weird

thorn spire
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Has to have some sort of frontal covergae

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Its bite ain't much XD

alpine plover
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Yeah, bite isn’t that impressive. I think it one shots pteras though lol

thorn spire
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Though I've seen utahs bitten to death by stego and cant help but think "you're disowned"

frosty heron
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Bite only exists to trade bites against Utahs when they successfully juke you

thorn spire
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Yep

frosty heron
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I've seen Stegos doing it to lower Utahs hp

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Just in case they get a tail tip they die 100% of the time

golden coral
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Bite should not be for full grown utahs in the first place, it's so weird.. :p

frosty heron
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But in the current balance I don't know why Stego "is on a bad spot", yes it's not a Deino but Deino it's just ridiculous

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Get a packmate or a few as Stego and you have no real threats

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I just felt that today finding 5 Stegos in the same place

thorn spire
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Yeah, stego is definitely a power house, u just have to have the skill and know how to land that blow.

And multiple stegos are almost invincible.

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50/50

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"Is he juking or commiting"

frosty heron
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You will start to worry when the Stego doesn't fall in jukes and they reposition themselves to side jab you

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That right there is a good Stego player

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Also using terrain in advantage

thorn spire
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Yeah, that's when I go "stupid utah" and just 100% go in for bites till I think he's tired of my bs.

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No baiting

alpine plover
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Stego is sometimes fun to play, although I hate stego. but I killed like 3 deinos. they kept biting each other for some reason so I had the advantage. but as soon as I went to heal a stego in my group killed me for no reason. Made me not want to touch stego ever again. But yeah it’s somewhat enjoyable

frosty heron
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I keep thinking is not the Dino but the players, the only playable that carries stupid players is Deino because "Alt Bite go brrrrr"

thorn spire
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Yeah u gotta hate those traitorous herbis

alpine plover
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I was playing with that stego for like 5 hours too

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We like grew together and after all of that he just kills me

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awesome

thorn spire
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Ya hate to hear it

alpine plover
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Good thing teno exists though

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A very enjoyable herbivore

frosty heron
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And the only one I felt is so well balanced I respect the players who main it and are capable with the dino

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Good Teno will wreck any attacker, Deino as always as exception

alpine plover
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Deino just destroys anything

frosty heron
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The only counter to Deinos rn, is Deinos Lol

alpine plover
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not even the best teno can kill the average deino

sinful cove
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ive seen tenontos kill deinos maybe twice and it's because a lot of deinos still dont know what alt bit eis somehow

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literally only way it can die

alpine plover
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you’d be surprised how many deinos still have no idea what alt bite is

frosty heron
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I've killed Deinos as Solo Utah by the same reason, because they just didn't knew alt bite exist

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But people seems to start to notice, cases are rare now

thorn spire
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Deino can literally drown adult tenonto, deinos dont be using their brains.

frosty heron
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You can also have 300 IQ and use land lunge as defensive option because it guarantees you a bite after you let it go

alpine plover
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To be fair, you can’t even grow a deino anymore without getting eaten by a group of cannibals

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that’s literally how all of my deinos died

thorn spire
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Underwater foliage will be a thing, and u can grow in the swamp. In the future deinosunder a certain growth will be faster than the adults on land.

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Barely anyone goes in the swamp

frosty heron
alpine plover
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Oh I got all of my deinos to 100%

frosty heron
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I won't give details here but they exist

alpine plover
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It’s just that I get unlucky and stumble into them

thorn spire
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Lol, and they hunt u down even across the plains, the damned cannibals.

alpine plover
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Yeah, very desperate

frosty heron
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Cannibalism is a thing you should consider while playing Deino, if you don't pack with another adult you turn into food. It's sad but that's the deal right now

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When I play Deino I just avoid other adult by giving them a good distance

thorn spire
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Yep, it's a thing now, so when u see a deino who looks at u wrong, feel no sympathy for clapping it.

alpine plover
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well, most cannibals aren’t going to be around since suchos are going to exist

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They’ll keep subs and juvies in line

thorn spire
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As the roster grows there will be more variety in the world, yes.

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Cersto will also appear to hunt some stage of deino as shown in its concept

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Cerato*

frosty heron
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Considering Cerato weight I doubt it will be able to hunt Deinos above 40% grow consistently

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Think that the heaviest mid tier Carnivore its already in the game, which is the Carno

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And yet they're not very capable against certain Deino sizes

thorn spire
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Lol, true but doesn't cerato have a stronger bite, and it's a better swimmer aswell

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With skill I'm sure it could take on deino just aswell as carno but with better turn

alpine plover
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I think it’s going to be a better swimmer yeah

frosty heron
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I'm not sure if it will be better swimmer but the stronger bite yeah that's fr, I hope it hits hard otherwise it will be bullied by Carnos (there faster)

thorn spire
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Yeah, it'll give carnos something to fear.

alpine plover
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I feel like cera should have decent bleed res this time too

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It’s full of muscle and pure testosterone, im sure a little blood drops won’t do much

thorn spire
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Decent bleed res but bad hp heal?

alpine plover
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Yes

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should have pretty good endurance too

thorn spire
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Yeah

frosty heron
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Then it shouldnt be fast, honestly in this game you cant have both

alpine plover
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Since it’s going to be slower, since it’s a brawler and will probably be rather slow. It should probably get a grab mechanic. (Which people want anyways)

thorn spire
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Pretty good speed, strong bite, but less hp is how I'd balance

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Decent speed*

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Moderate hp

alpine plover
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I think it should be a little slower than teno

thorn spire
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It would be forced to hunt stego and deino, unless magy came out with it to have a somewhat balanced fight.

alpine plover
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Magy is interesting tbh

frosty heron
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Cerato still a Mid tier, Stego and Deino will still be dominating the ecosystem until other Apexes are added

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To counter Stego we need Rex, Gigas, Acros..

alpine plover
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we still have no clue how it’s going to play out, other than it pushing a Cerato (pretty much) hopefully it has something cool with it and it won’t be as terrible as the community says

frosty heron
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For Deino maybe Spino and Sucho for population control

alpine plover
frosty heron
thorn spire
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I'd like for magy to be slightly stronger than cerato since it's the main prey item of cerato.

Magy would be a threat but the fight would overall be balanced like tenonto and utah/carno.

frosty heron
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Wasn't Magy 1.5 tons?

thorn spire
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Yeah but in this game they upsize and downsized some stuff.

frosty heron
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If that the case it should be a balanced fight

thorn spire
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But I believe both weighed a similar amount irl

frosty heron
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And magy will be slower so it should have the upper hand defensively

thorn spire
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Yeah, the sumo wrestling sauropod.

alpine plover
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Magy is decently large, so I think it has a chance

image0.png
frosty heron
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Oh it's 1.3 tons

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Well I'm not sure what will happen with that creature

alpine plover
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Not that impressive size wise, but it’s good enough I suppose

thorn spire
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I just hope it'll be good but not broken like tenonto.

frosty heron
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Tenonto is not broken, it's alright, Deino it's broken imo

alpine plover
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Deino is very broken

hollow canyon
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Magy is 1.3t, whilst Cerato is anywhere from 1t to 1.6t depending on what specimen you use(the 1.6t one is rather unreliable).

thorn spire
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LOL I didn't mean to say tenonto is broken, I meant "I hope it's good and NOT broken, like tenonto"

Tenonto is good and not broken.

alpine plover
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Yeah, which teno should be. Small tier brawler horse lizard

sinful cove
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if you miss a pounce, which is a socketed ability that teleports you to the side of the animal if you land on a bad spot anyway, then you deserve to fall over and get shitstomped by your target

thorn spire
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Agreed, pouncing takes skill, it just has to work and have a clean dismount. If u miss you deserve that 5 seconds of being open.

normal granite
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@hollow canyon after thinking about what we were discussing last night, one reason why it might be "harder" to be a herbivore, other than that there are not many people willing to play herbivores, might be that there is nothing much else to do as a carnivore other than roam the map and kill stuff. As a herbivore you don't go looking for fights but have to defend yourself. As a carnivore you literally just attack things for food or fun and travel somewhere else when you are bored. Imo I don't think there is not enough things to do in order to keep them from just attacking things out of boredom

thorn spire
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I always like to keep a body in the fridge, and drag that body throughout the map while I look for my next prey, though I won't hunt it until my current body is gone.

Imma hit the sack now and post my part 2 when I awake.

normal granite
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Speaking of not much else to do as a carnivore I did play a game last night where I did join a pack of raptors and we claimed the pond as our territory and did spend a while defending it from some carnotors. But that was one time and about 3-4 hours out of maybe 25-30 hours of gameplay

vernal sentinel
sinful cove
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magy interests me as a punching bag

alpine plover
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i do agree

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Please dont treat it as "useless", because its not

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or at least not as useless as you think.

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Consider the fact that it has osteoderms (a rather effective defensive measure since its essentially like chainmail, albeit a bit larger in scale), a tail and a neck (both of which can be used to just whack enemies with) and also legs.

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If you want to hear more, it can actually rear up on two legs.

vernal sentinel
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lol

alpine plover
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erm there is really no point at being pissed off at magy being added

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we have fucking animations for it and a model, and it will be added

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and likely will be balanced

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because the devs decide the balance, ultimately

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I mean yeah magy isnt totally invincible, but then whats the fucking point if they just roam around without any predators?

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I mean teno is anything but invincible

latest.png
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it still can be killed by carnos, and is killed by them

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Explain how this is then meant to survive an allo attack?

vagrant mural
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Running

alpine plover
# vagrant mural Running

ah yes, as if those stumpy legs can get it away from an allosaur capable of bursts of speed of around 40KMH

vagrant mural
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Our teno can clock it around 42

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And probably has more stam

alpine plover
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I mean look. Complaining that magy sucks is pointless

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it is not meant to be invincible, but who said all playables should be?

vagrant mural
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No one

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People don’t want it to be invincible

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It’s just most people don’t see a Pygmy sauropod outrunning or fending off an allo or Alberto

alpine plover
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but I would say magy is good enough.

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You have other factors to account for, like manoeuvrability and armour.

vagrant mural
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Yeah magy could probably outweave an allo in like a jungle

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Cool

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And like osteoderms are pretty cool

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But I don’t really see them stopping most thing of similar or larger size

alpine plover
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when you look at the armour of ankylosaurus, its actually not as tightly packed as otherwise depicted

Ankylosaurus_armor.png
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Magy has similar osteoderm spacing ingame

vagrant mural
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That’s neat

alpine plover
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even if a bit smaller, it still likely works

1000.png
vagrant mural
alpine plover
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the point of these is that its harder to bite the animal

vagrant mural
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Yeah

alpine plover
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I mean you risk getting your teeth shattered if you try to bite a magy

vagrant mural
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Teeth shattering mechanic

alpine plover
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and if its struggling about its even harder to bite.

vagrant mural
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Idm magy having some form of damage resist

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Like cera

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And I think magy can be viable

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And unique

alpine plover
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also despite being a titanosaur, magy isnt too cumbersome

Magyarosaurus_Concept.png
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it can rear up on its hindlegs, and it can gallop

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its a bit like a giraffe, an elephant and a horse or pony mixed together

vagrant mural
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But it’s also very much a touchy subject for a reason

left scroll
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i think it's absolutely got the potential to be viable, it's just the devs don't really seem like they actually know what they're doing with it

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it can run fast 😎 and it has armour 😎 oh and its poisonous 😎

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imo i wish they'd just drop the poison thing and lean into it being a somewhat more fast and mobile tank

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the poison in particular really didn't help with magy being meme'd hard. As much as I think it does stand a chance I can see why it's considered such a joke considering everything we know about it so far

fallen chasm
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I don't think it's necessarily poisonous, it just tastes bad and doesn't give any diet benefits/may have negative effects to eating. Only the Cera I believe won't have negative effects to eating a Magy.

left scroll
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it's still a bit... meh. because realistically it wouldn't help magy in the long run

sinful cove
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If magy has a low stam pool, can only perform its stun from the front and has an easily dodgable stomp it sounds like easy food

left scroll
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i think poison as a concept could be really interesting, and I've considered making a poisonous taco suggestion. but the way they plan to go about it with magy is just kind of dumb

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depends on how much stam all of that takes. lowish stam pool for running, but that doesn't necessarily dictate how much stam the attacks take

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im also basing it's supposed stam pool off of the current roster, most of whom have heaps of stam

sinful cove
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Its attacks sound incredibly easy to bait

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But i guess itd have to be seen

left scroll
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that'd mostly depend on how quick those attacks are. teno's tail slam is good because it's fast

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how quick the neck swipe is I think is what would dictate a lot of magy's viability here

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the stomp doesn't matter too much because it'll usually need to knock things down to stomp them anyway

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imo either have the neck swipe be fast but consume a fair amount of stam, or slow but consume a small amount of stam. Or, I think ideally, have the amount of stam it takes be dependent on whether the attack actually landed or not

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just swiping your neck upwards doesn't take much energy. Swiping your neck upwards while trying to knock a cera off it's feet would

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I'm just not sure how difficult it'd be to code something like that. Considering how buggy pounce was (and sometimes still is), hit detection obviously has it's issues

vestal gust
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all that does sound nice, but what happens when something bigger comes across magy. An allo for example isn't going to give a shit about any of those attacks because it's bigger and will just tank that magy. Same goes for any other larger carnivore. Magy still needs something to help deter larger predators

peak pumice
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ok guys the pounce time to get up when u miss is absurd I never get it when there no one around but for soem reason it keeps popping up only when someone is biting me

left scroll
#

any larger than that and the neck swipe probably wouldn't be useful, but by that point those animals are probably slower than magy

novel tulip
#

Would its tail attack causing stun be too op

#

Or a kick attack that stuns as well

#

I think that would make it less tailridable but idk

#

Otherwise it would need good turn and I dont see it having good turn with the neck flap

#

Maybe it building fracture instead

#

If a dino gets a broken leg, its certain to get stomped

hollow canyon
#

@normal graniteTo be fair, I play herbivores exactly in the same manner as I do with carnivores if not in a more bloodthirsty manner. The only difference is that I don't attack adult herbivores I suppose.

alpine plover
#

(Which it won’t be of course because it’s magy)

thorn spire
#

@left scroll

The low stam idea is the only thing I hard disagree with, as allo would outstam + outspeed, that was the original problem with magy.

grave veldt
#

yk i like the idea of the magy suggestion but it all falls apart as soon as alberto and allo come in especially alberto

#

i dont see in any way shape or form how magy could outrun allo and alberto w/o looking like a twat

alpine plover
#

Magy outrunning a ambush predator full of muscle and pure testosterone? Doesn’t sound right

sinful cove
#

yeah if magy has low stam his cc wont matter too much unless it also breaks his targets stam or he can actually kill an allo with his stomp, which if he could you know salty allo mains would flood feedback until magy got nerfed

#

low stam magy may as well just back off from their keyboard if more than one predator sees it

#

and you know that when its spotted there's an overwhelming chance that it will also be outnumbered

hollow canyon
#

Magy killing an Allo sounds about as right as Utah soloing a Stego

sinful cove
#

yeah it would look pretty stupid

#

the dude weighs under 2 tons

hollow canyon
#

If it does happen then we might as well just go all crazy with balance cause it would be a joke at that point

#

It's 1.3t, not even half of Allo's weight

sinful cove
#

magy somehow managing to push an allo and slapping it in the face with its little paws isnt going to save its life

#

it would look dumb even pushing it over honestly

hollow canyon
#

Honestly I think Allo wouldn't even have to use either its close nor its jaws to kill the Magy, the sheer size difference would be enough for it to take the win

sinful cove
#

allo could probably bodyslam magy and kill it lmao

hollow canyon
#

Yeah

sinful cove
#

magy may as well just instadie if an allo sees it

hollow canyon
#

even a Carno or Tenonto would very likely give Magy a run for its money if they decided to kill it

sinful cove
#

magy barely weighs more than teno right

vagrant mural
#

Tenonto would go toe to toe with magy

hollow canyon
#

that is actually even an understatement - I think either of those two would kill it

vagrant mural
#

It weighs less than both of them

hollow canyon
#

It weighs 300kg less than Tenonto

sinful cove
#

carno can literally headbutt it over and bite its head

brittle dirge
#

that's wild lmao

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is the bigger out of the two

sinful cove
#

it doesnt look any more stable on its feet than teno

hollow canyon
#

Magy would just fall flat on its face if Tenonto landed the tailslam on it

sinful cove
#

teno is closer to the ground so if carno pushes teno over and magy is somehow immune that would also look stupid

hollow canyon
#

Agreed

#

Tenonto looks far more stable

sinful cove
#

and it wouldnt be very fair for them to slow down allo's run just for magy to be more viable

#

allo and albert that is

hollow canyon
#

I mean to be fair - Magy shouldn't be a very hard growth and it should rely on staying hidden in the jungles. It would also not really be on Allo's preferred menu at all so if an Allo specifically decided to hunt Magy's it would screw up its diet or need to have a tonne of spare time to hunt them.

sinful cove
#

if magy isnt a challenge to kill allo can just kos it for fun and move on without messing up its diet

hollow canyon
#

Because while it's hunting them it's not getting any food unless it eats them on the other hand if it does eat them then it will screw itself over

sinful cove
#

even if it poses somewhat of a challenge it can be kfsed and move on since it isnt deadly

hollow canyon
#

Yeah, that's fine but this takes time that you could otherwise spend hunting so unless you have a surplus food I don't think it would be worth the time and effort

sinful cove
#

sport killing is just as common as killing for food in the isle, maybe more common

brittle dirge
#

I would say its a tad more common

sinful cove
#

yeah since herbis also do it

#

so carnis doing it half the time + herbis doing it

hollow canyon
#

It is, I kill mainly for sport but even with that in mind there are times where you simply can't afford to spend time on something you can't eat

sinful cove
#

so magy will be a literal punching bag for the roster and theyll just leave the body for scavengers

brittle dirge
#

and they said anky was a bad animal

hollow canyon
#

Unless you spot the Magy just right next to you and don't have to spend time tracking it down and killing it you would be pretty much putting yourself at a disadvantage

#

They haven't said that - Bryan has and he has the right to voice his opinion, the devs aren't a monolithic being. Bryan's opinion of Magy might be not better than that of Anky.

sinful cove
#

if it isnt very fast in its reel so following its tracks would be an easy task for a bored carni, especially a bored carni group who would utterly demolish magy on sight

brittle dirge
hollow canyon
#

It isn't very fast but it's not as slow as a Stego so it could take a while - I personally think all the quadrupeds should be allowed to crouch which would give Magy some edge in covering its tracks

#

I'd argue that Magy should have a decently fast crouch which would allow it to stay hidden. It wouldn't be something immersion breaking and it would give the animal some small edge.

brittle dirge
sinful cove
#

i mean im hebri biased and i already plan on kfsing magy

#

as an herbi

brittle dirge
sinful cove
#

lure them into a false sense of security and then cripple them when i see a predator

hollow canyon
#

I'd probably do that - I typically don't hunt herbivores as a herbivore but if Magy was eating the plants I wanted I'd most likely kill it on sight

frosty heron
#

TI_Unamused Magy mains right now

sinful cove
#

magy mains probably crave pain and punishment

hollow canyon
#

Usually I just hunt carnivores as a herbivore but with diets coming things might change

sinful cove
#

when i play carni i usually try to focus hunts on carnis too, shame diets will probably make it harder for me lol

#

cerato time

frosty heron
#

Perhaps, I feel like Magy mains are the typical players who mains low tiers in fighting games

brittle dirge
#

just play cera

#

pfft

sinful cove
#

i mean teno is in the same tier as magy and is a fighter

frosty heron
#

Anyways to make that animal viable without getting into some unrealistic bullshit terrain (like making it extremely fast) it should have an interesting defensive option

#

To make predators think it twice

#

Otherwise that Dino would be, as you said, a punching bag

sinful cove
#

its cc would look totally silly working on large theropods, its scutes as well wouldnt defend well against large theropods without looking bad. i had a bad idea a while back for camo magy that probably wouldnt be good either

#

would probably be a nightmare to code anyway

brittle dirge
#

~~now if we wanna go into unrealistic territory just make it venomous like a lionfish TI_Troll ~~

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

spike abomination magy

ampelosaurus_1_by_phillustr8r-d6g6i6w.png
#

i know its ampelosaurus but still

frosty heron
#

We don't need 2 dinos with reflect dmg

brittle dirge
#

meh, there's bound to be duplicates at some point or another lol

sinful cove
#

i mean it wouldnt hurt to have multiple collision damage/attack reflect dinos but that would require modifying magy model which seems pretty unlikely

frosty heron
#

Well devs gonna try to have variety with each playable and avoid stuff like Legacy Alberto that was literally a bigger Sub Rex

#

On Evrima each playable is pretty unique

sinful cove
#

i mean there will be multiple burrows, multipel nocturnals, so it isnt that bad

frosty heron
#

Exceptions might be Carno, people says it's a bigger Utah but I disagree

sinful cove
#

as long as they have something else to set them apart

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

like it not literally just being a bigger clumsier kentro

frosty heron
#

Camo Magy it's an interesting idea tho

sinful cove
#

yeah if it can somehow be tackled with coding stealth magy would at leas tbe less ridiculous than seeing it shove an allo over and break its face

frosty heron
#

Maybe will not be added as a mechanic but Magy colour palette/patterns after the skin update can do the job

sinful cove
#

could work, or having two skins in customization it can fade in to so players can make two camo skins for different situations

#

when they use the crouch their secondary skin fades in

#

some people had a similar idea for herrera too, which could also work but idk he's already hidden in trees while magy's fat ass is on the ground lol

frosty heron
#

Herrera due to its arboreal gameplay it will be well hidden without camo, and it seems it's default skin will help him with it

sinful cove
#

yeah herreras can easily make a woody skin for themselves and be set

#

for the off chance that players will even bother looking up in the woods regularly

frosty heron
#

Yes indeed, interesting niche it will make going into dense forest to heal a fun task

sinful cove
#

You should be rewarded with a safer dismount if you jump off with remaining stam and don’t let yourself get knocked off first, otherwise the stun when landing is deserved

#

Pounce is barely aimed right now anyway since you can hit a target's face and the game holds your hand and teleports you to their side

golden coral
#

Wait, did they mean there should be no punishment if you lose all your stamina from being bucked off? I can get the dismount issue, and adding a "kick back" with some stam cost to make it safe to jump off instead of just letting go is perfectly reasonable. But if you stay on too long, you should absolutely get punished. The letting go anim could do with a little more distance for base of tail/tail damage, but it should still hurt, to encourage using stamina to get off safely.

vagrant mural
#

^

thorn spire
#

I agree mira.

I didnt mean if you had no remaining stamina.

#

"Make tenonto's tail slam attack register damage differently depending on which part of the tail hits the opponent. For instance, if a Tenonto lands a tail slam with the base/mid-section of its tail, it should deal full damage coupled with a stun. But if a tenonto hits an opponent with the tip of its tail, the damage should be miniscule. having utahs knocked down and carnos stunned due to being hit by the tip of a tenonto's tail should not be happening. "

Yo pesky so pissed at tenontos, he hates them with a passion TI_Wheeze

#

I concur with his suggestion somewhat though. Though I dont because the same logic could be said about stego but it's the opposite. If you're at the base of the tail the stego shouldnt be able to damage you with its tail since its tail couldn't curve in like that.

Getting abit too specific imo.

vernal sentinel
#

This is true, just ignore the amount of people who get hate boner whenever someone mentions that the pounce sucks now. The fact that when pounce was still good (update 2) and there weren't as many carnos and stegos running rampant proves something.

sinful cove
#

If you let yourself get bucked off and dont voluntarily dismount you should be punished, doesnt make it bad and a utah doesnt even need pounce to kill a stego

vernal sentinel
#

missed the point^ I agree with that

sinful cove
#

The only thing about pounce that is bad for the utah is also getting immobilized for a second when voluntarily dismounting which should be fixed if it hasn’t been, wouldnt know cus i don’t really touch utah

worldly thunder
#

Yeah

vernal sentinel
#

missed pounce animation is bad

sinful cove
#

I mean idk about the animation but if you miss you deserve the punishment

#

Your target deserves the opportunity to eliminate you when you mess up

#

Whats wrong with the animation tho

vernal sentinel
#

too long

sinful cove
#

If pounce was not socketed then maybe it would be worth shortening the stun

#

You have a lot of room to mess up before the game actually counts it as a miss unless you get shit on by lag

frosty heron
#

Pounce still an usable mechanic but since I saw an Utah getting killed when he dismounted "safely" with stamina left just because he was inmobilized I decided to not to use it as much, that thing is just a bad counter to a landed pounce and that shouldnt happen

#

You can still use it against something that doesnt one shot you like Carnos, but with Stegos landing a pounce could mean death

slim dragon
#

Intentional dismount, missing and being bucked off are three different things
Being punished for being bucked off or missing a pounce is fine imo

#

But intentional dismount could be made safer

frosty heron
#

Yes I agree with that, I never got bucked off and I always check my stamina, I just dont understand those utah players who stay on a bucking dino

#

But the problem is, even if you intentionally dismount, youre open to attacks

#

Ive seen Stegos who knew this and killed 2 Utahs of a pack of 6 just by timing the attack with the dismounts, thats unfair

vernal sentinel
#

"Being punished for being bucked off or missing a pounce is fine imo" - probably doesn't play utah

slim dragon
#

Yes, intentional dismounting should be fixed

vernal sentinel
#

punishment for being bucked off is fine of course, missed pounce animation can be there, but shorter than rn

frosty heron
#

The missing animation is fine imo and I play Utah, think its 3-4 secs stun

#

and yes you can die but that doesnt happen 100% of the time

#

depends on where you miss and the reaction time of the attacker

#

The stun that kills you is that one where you hit a tree , and that stun also plays when theres utahs pouncing another creature and it reachs the limit, example of this a Carno only can have 2 Utahs latched on it, if a third Utah pounces it gets knocked off with the long animation, at that point youre probably dead

lament cloak
#

@raw cairn I think a better idea would be to allow pinned targets to fight back, essentially bucking but for creatures that are pinned. it would drain both targets stamina faster, which lets the pinned target have a chance. a utah carrying another utah on its back makes no sense, if a creature throws its entire body weight onto another creature of the same size the creature is going to fall to the ground, and therefore be pinned.

raw cairn
#

@lament cloak yea i just think in general at least for a utah to not be completely helpless when pinned by another adult. There should be some type of way to counter it because if not, its a certain death if that guys full stam

alpine plover
old hull
#

wanna know the best strat to survive a pounce as a utah tho?

#

dont get pounced you dumb dumb

#

stop begging for new mechanics to make up for your lack of skill

granite gate
#

tbf “free insta kill bc i have stam :)” is a pretty shit mechanic gameplay-wise

#

counter play is important for combat

#

even being lunged by deinos should be based more on skill if you wanna get away, not just “yay i had more stam than the discount gator”

old hull
#

yeah and if you are aware and paying attention , you wont get pounced

#

if you let someone pounce on you , you deserve to die end of story

alpine plover
#

It amazes me how carnos get pounced and then complain that Utah is “overpowered” when they can literally just 3 shot them. Utahs pounce is meant to be powerful. those sickles aren’t just for show.

lament cloak
#

Plus the fact how FAST carnos bite is

alpine plover
#

Carno feels like a faster mini sub rex with that biteforce. It needs a biteforce nerf and a charge buff

#

people would rather bite than to use the charge which is pretty essential for hunting, but it’s rarely used

cedar lintel
#

Hey, posted an actual novel on Deino in the balancing feedback. That a hot-take or just an obvious thing people agree with? I'm not too active in the balancing talks so wanna see what people have to say, if anything.

dawn falcon
#

Holy shit my carno balance idea

image0.png
#

Time to repost I guess hmm_run

wild cove
#

Honestly the only "safe" Deino is an adult Deino and they take like 6 hours to grow, but at that point you're at a higher risk of dying to starvation, especially when you have a ton of Deinos all hanging out together. Anything smaller is at risk of dying to utahs, carnos, and being cannibalized by other Deinos. Hell, an adult Ptera can kill a juvie / sub Deino with enough effort and little risk if they catch them in shallows or outside of water.

We don't need more shallow areas of water. There's already a massive stretch of shallow water slightly north of center spawn that no Deino can hide in and it takes a good 30 minutes for a Deino to walk across to reach deeper rivers again, and they're exposed to Utahs, Carnos, and less deadly but mildly annoying Pteras that follow overhead and peck at you. So no, we don't really need more shallow waterways, you just need to know where the shallow waters are.

We definitely don't need less fish. If anything we probably need more, not just for Deino but for Ptera as well. Fish spawns have been rather scarce lately in my experience which makes it more likely hungry Deinos will be jerks to smaller Deinos and other dinos.

As for group sizes, there's not much you can do about that. There are pack sizes, people just hang out anyway. There are rules about mix-packing, people do it anyway. That's just something that works itself out and runs through cycles. Today its utahs and carnos hunting together, tomorrow its 12 Deinos ruling the pond. It'll always be something.

Really the only thing worth criticizing imo is adult Deino is a little too comfortable on land, but we don't have other apexes or bone break yet so those should change the playing field.

old hull
#

you can negate all those "issues" by just making baby crocs not worthless and making alt bite cost stam

#

but thats a problem overall where juvies are just shittier versions of the adults

cedar lintel
# wild cove Honestly the only "safe" Deino is an adult Deino and they take like 6 hours to g...

I disagree with your point on shallows, I think you should be able to come across shallow areas naturally fairly often rather than having to rely on map and navigational knowledge, that just feels... odd to me within the context of the game.

I also disagree with the pteras being a threat statement. Early to mid growth deinos take extremely little damage from pecky bois, though I'll admit that I'm not quite sure what age the 3 that kept attacking me were. But at best they were a nuisance. Could be wrong tho, maybe worth testing.

As for the fish, I can see the logic of more fish for ptera bois, my main concern was with how easy the early stage is for deinos (based on my own experiences anyway, I know cannibalism can be an issue), so I'd be for that I think.

With group sizes, I don't think it's something that should just be shrugged away, it is a significant issue plaguing the game currently. There are servers with active and dilligent admins that mitigate this, but an in game solution I feel is a more than reasonable ask.

Lastly, I hadn't considered those systems, or even really diets and how that might shake things up. So hopefully that ends up being the case.

vagrant mural
#

Isn’t juvi deino getting places to hide and a buff anyway

golden coral
#

Group sizes can be limited by how much food is available. Fish should probably give less food too. And deino is safe, only another, oftentimes bigger deino is an actual threat to you, nothing else. Barring specific areas, but even then you can cross as a smaller one, and a big one is plenty powerful.

#

As for earlier utah conversation, one-shots or similar between same size is generally boring and not that good, and while a pounced utah should perhaps not be able to get out easily, it should be able to fight back somewhat, it's way too safe as it stands right now.

old hull
#

it really is not , its so easy to just dodge the pounce as a utah

#

we wouldnt say deino lunge needs a nerf now because it can 1 shot teno carno utah etc now are we

#

its supposed to do that , so dont get hit by it

golden coral
#

Doesn't matter, pouncing another utah is still too safe and easy, simple as that. So the downed utah should at least be able to deal damage back. And the lunge is, well, mechanically not ideal to say the least. And maybe it needs some sort of struggling there too, or otherwise some sort of weakness for deinos, such as recovering stamina only by resting on land or similar.

#

At least with deino the new water ripples do make it slightly harder to just ambush, so there is that, or at least so I've heard.

old hull
#

why tho , why should the better player that used their attack properly be punished for doing that

#

you got pounced and died? tough shit try better next time

#

got lunged and drowned? again tough shit try again

cedar lintel
golden coral
#

You don't get punished, it's hardly the same as making something more or less difficult.

cedar lintel
wild cove
#

The water ripples if you're just under it but moving, but the ripples stop after you sit still. That said, another dino has to drink from exactly near where you're sitting for you to lunge out and grab it, especially if they're ready to bolt away, so its not as simple as "the whole river is lava"

golden coral
#

You got pounced, you should have some sort of counter action. You could still kill them, but it might cost you a bit more health so you might want to find a utah that has little stamina, so it can't fight back as much/well.

wild cove
#

As for not knowing where the shallow areas on the map are, you can join groups of other dinos and have them show you places

#

Its a multiplayer game, so imo you should make use of the multiplayer and get other player help

old hull
#

there are so many ways to not be hit by either lunge or pounce

#

you litterally just have to pay attention

golden coral
#

Doesn't matter, the interaction itself is not good because of that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

old hull
#

and why is it not good

golden coral
#

Sure, I can hide away and never be pounced by another utah, that does not mean utah-utah fight/interaction is good.

#

Because there's no real combat/counter to it, when there could and should be.

old hull
#

why dont you hit the pounce first

golden coral
#

You have no reason to pounce a utah on low stamina vs high stamina, it does not matter at all.

old hull
#

thats your counter , just pounce it first

golden coral
#

See, that's not a counter.

granite gate
#

wouldnt more dynamic combat simply be more interesting?

golden coral
#

It would, at least to me.

old hull
#

like what , left clicking eachother to death instead

granite gate
#

a fight that’s over in under a minute is “realistic” and “hardcore” but boring as hell, especially for a creature you’ve spent an hour+ growing

wild cove
#

On the subject of the utahs, I agree counter-play options would be good

golden coral
#

And I'm thinking the downed utah can fight back, inflict damage, with it's own stamina. So you might still kill it, but now you're worse off, unless you chose a utah with low stamina that couldn't fight very well. Now you get a bit more choice and interaction.

granite gate
#

there are better dynamic combat options than left clicking lmaooo

old hull
#

then explain one to me "lmao"

granite gate
#

dodges, multiple attacks, counters, struggle mechanics

wild cove
#

On the subject of rivers and deinos though, I think some people are drastically overestimating how many deinos are within any given stretch of river at any time. As having played AS a Deino for a long time, there are literal miles of river without crocs in them

golden coral
#

Longer combat and more dynamic in general would be good, and one-shots or similar in same size class is not fun, nor very skilled.

cedar lintel
old hull
#

dodges , multiple attacks already exist you mongrel

golden coral
#

You don't require much skill to land the pounce, you could just get lucky and get the same result.

wild cove
#

But if you're always going to the hub areas where all the dinos hang together, it'll seem like there's a lot of them

granite gate
#

dodging for utahs?

#

i thought dodging only existed for dryos

old hull
#

yes , w a s d , use them

golden coral
#

Let's put it this way, the more times you have to engage, the more your skill can matter.

old hull
#

walk left or right

granite gate
#

i mean actual anims

golden coral
#

If you just need to land one pounce to pretty much guarantee a utah on utah kill, there's much less room for skill.

old hull
#

pointless , you can just move

#

pounce is stupid easy to dodge

golden coral
#

Because I can just as well get lucky with my pounce and you die just the same

cedar lintel
granite gate
#

pounce is ridiculously difficult to miss

golden coral
#

It doesn't matter how easy it is to dodge, that's not my point. I'm not talking about how easy a mechanic is to use or not. I'm talking about how many times you need to use it, and that the more times, or the more dynamic interactions, means more room for skill and play/counterplay.

cedar lintel
granite gate
#

but the game seems to let people hit their pounces even when it doesnt look like they did

#

its definitely coded to be in favor of accidental pounces vs accidental misses

golden coral
#

Maybe pounce is easy to miss, I've never really had an issue with it to be honest. But then with performance issues, god only knows. It would be interesting to know how the servers work now, with the reset.

granite gate
#

tbf desync and lag is a huge issue rn

golden coral
#

What I do know is that you have slots for bigger things, and that I've not really missed pounces on other utahs when I used to fight them, but that was a while ago so.

cedar lintel
granite gate
#

idk in general i just think longer, more drawn out fights are more exciting than being insta-killed/ambushed. like yeah some dinos like deino have to be ambush but otherwise id prefer longer fights

old hull
#

getting the suspicious that you are a toilet rocktah and thats why pounce is "hard" to dodge ;)

granite gate
#

especially considering growth times are so long

#

what

golden coral
#

But the pounce being difficult or easy to hit or miss with, is not really what I was trying to argue for or against anyway :p I'm just saying that more dynamic mechanics/interactions/play and counterplay and more choice in when/how/who you attack leaves room for more skill, more back and forth, and more variety in outcome depending on everyones skill.

spare badger
#

100% agree with this carno suggestion

pearl elbow
#

The carno, suggestion would have a great many implications. Carno i believe for evrima will work as the line between a mid tier and a lower tier. Carno needs to be strong enough also to contend with teno and by making carno weaker as you put it, is too drastic.

#

For this suggestion to work you would have play around with the other creatures as well. For the time being it works, charge, bite force, and turning.

#

Though the alt bite suggestion is ok

frosty heron
#

I absolutely disagree with some aspects of Carno suggestion, the reason why it's simple, making most of those changes like reducing its turning while skidding is just pointless as right now that doesn't make Carnos land bites on agile dinos easier or even makes them able to chase them down with ease, it's fairly easy to juke Carnos as an agile creature, making it worse will not help.

About the Carno charge, removing the cooldown will not make people use it more as the problem with charge right now is the fact you need full speed to activate it and the distance for that is enought for any person with the eyes open will avoid it just by moving, if you use it as an ambush attack, it will work only once, not twice, against the same player and so removing the cooldown its pointless

#

I would only agree to reduce the Biteforce a bit, not that much maybe 300 N

pearl elbow
#

agreed

#

Especially in the current climate we do not want a weak carno, and the bite force of the carno is the only thing protecting it against utahs. If the Carno is too weak i can see it becoming too weak and not lasting in the future

sinful cove
#

I mean we could also just lower utah hp to 750 at the same time

#

It is weird for a 500kg lightly built animal to have 1000hp

pearl elbow
#

Then what would be the point in changing the carno bite force, if you will just lower utah, to remain as it is against carno

#

Utah vs carno is where this argument i imagine originated. Carno needs it's high damage to contend with the teno.

sinful cove
#

Utah isnt the only other dino in the game, carno doesnt need to hunt teno on the regular when more utah sized animals are released

#

Carno can just avoid teno in favour of things like utah, pachy, galli, mono, rugops, dryo, juvies and other animals in that range

pearl elbow
#

yes, but carno should not be limited to those. By reducing the carnos damage and in turn then also the small creatures health is just not fixing anything, but making the higher tiers untouchable by carno and the small tiers.

#

Carno, should be able to deal with small creatures efficiently giving a real threat to there presence but not to be a push over by other creatures in the same or similar weight class

#

Undeniably carno will have to go through a few changes but, not so that utahs can afford to take a couple of hits and overwhelm a carno or chase it down. This change could make a carno not being able to compete with utahs. Two utahs could kill a carno currently if played well and managed their stamina but, if 250N was given then 2 utahs could definitely fight a carno. Not to mention more than two utahs with 250N carno could too easily become overwhelmed.

sinful cove
#

The small tiers are already oneshot by the high tiers so it wouldnt affect their matchup with them, and good carnos could still take on animals above their tier. It should have the disadvantage in its weight class when there are enough smalls in, as fighting large prey would be entirely the player's choice and they chose a dino not specialized for that

pearl elbow
#

If you have to lower all the small tiers health just for carno dealing less damage makes no sense as it beats the point of it losing damage. Secondly, this would make the small tiers become inferior to creatures like teno which could wipe the flaw with all of them if they are that weak. It is not worth changing the carnos, damage so drastically to force changes to be made to all the tiers below as it accomplishes nothing

#

Furthermore, higher tiers will not necessarily one shot a small tiers every time. For example stego gets a utah in the tail or a stego biting a utah

sinful cove
#

How does it beat the point of it losing damage? The damage lowering is for its matchup against larger tiers not smalls, plus the smalls are awkwardly tanky right now anyway.

pearl elbow
#

They are not tanky

sinful cove
#

If utah has his voluntary pounce disengage fixed it will be able to dodge easier after dismounting as well, it doesnt need 1000hp

pearl elbow
#

Utah with 1000hp still struggles against carno, a single carno. three bites on average will kill a utah

sinful cove
#

So you think one utah shouldnt struggle against one carno? And that specific matchup would also not change much

pearl elbow
#

No that is not what i said

sinful cove
#

Reduced carno bite with reduced utah hp would only reward carno for landing its charge more which it should

pearl elbow
#

No it does nothing to the current state of things. still means the utah will dies in three bites. Just that now they will struggle to contend with tenos. Teno claws will deal more damage to utahs, and generally tip the scales even more towards the teno.

#

Utahs are already pretty much one shot by tenos with the kick or tail slam

#

one shot by stegos and by removing more of their health in making carnos damage less, does nothing to improve it's odds against them as well

frosty heron
#

The only reason I wouldn't nerf Carno right now it's because we have a good 50/50 matchup which is Teno/Carno and nerfing Carno is giving the Teno the upper hand being a slightly smaller animal.

#

Yes Carno can run away but a defensive good Teno player can wreck a Carno with the stun attacks

pearl elbow
#

Yes, true

frosty heron
#

I wouldn't want to destroy the only full skilled based matchup in the game, Herbivores should always have a predator to worry about and let's be honest Teno vs Utah matchup while it's also fun, the amount of Utah casualties is always bigger when there's a pack vs pack scenario

sinful cove
#

Sorry back

#

I agree carno shouldnt be reworked right now, when more of the roster is out there will be more brawler predators and small animals so at that point it would be a good time, obviously right now it would be dumb

#

People in the future can choose cerato or another predator to hunt in their size range, utah with a fixed voluntary pounce disengage wouldn’t lose anything against stego really since they'd get hit less anyway, teno punching up isnt a huge issue since it is slower and utah groups could still take it down with skill

pearl elbow
#

Well, from the concept art and where we know the direction of where the game is heading i can't imagine that carno will change too much as they want to keep the teno/carno match up on good terms. The last point there with the utah i don't quite understand but, utah is fine for now

dawn falcon
#

This isn’t a balance idea for the current matchup. I have other nerfs I would like with Teno aswell, not just Carno, to keep the matchup still a straight 50/50.

#

and that’s regarding its kick

#

But that’ll be for another time

pearl elbow
#

The reasons i would see for lowering both of the creatures stats is to keep balance for that match up and create a divide between the carno and the rest of the mid tiers. Or give the smaller tiers such as cera a better place in the ecosystem. But, to make any meaningful change will have to be looked at across all of the ecosystem not just one aspect.

dawn falcon
versed rune
#

i am still so confused why people are so reluctant to call carno and cerato true mid tiers despite the fact that carno is more than large enough to qualify as one and irl cerato recently got a pretty big upsize.

sharp light
lament cloak
#

cerato being even smaller

JcFZwys.png
#

@fallen chasm Herbies should never get sniffing while walking, the whole pointing of not letting them do so was to try to make herbies tracking down other creatures harder. since they eat plants. not meat

fallen chasm
#

I think of the Cera sort of like the Honey Badger of the Isle. Smaller in size, voracious and savage in nature

sinful cove
#

utah should get a safer voluntary dismount but its punishment for missing shouldnt be changed until its pounce isnt a socket, it is too hard to miss right now for a miss punishment to be lowered

#

you can literally jump on someones head or halfway down their tail and get teleported to their side

vagrant mural
#

I wish they implemented that mechanic they showed off with trike for stego’s tail, yknow the one where you pounce it and then get impaled

sinful cove
#

by the time kentro is added, colission damage like that is a must

vale harness
#

ayo anyone know what the stun limit is for tenos tail/kick. I don't think it is anything twice the tenos weight or less, cause i tested that. but it seems a bit daf to make it so specific, like teno can only stun a dino if its 200kgs bigger then it or less.

pearl elbow
#

No one wants the cheetah role of carno to be it's default style it is a bit like legacy, rubbish and only good in certain scenarios. The current carno has some range as not just a brawler but also a cheetah. Any change to the carno would have to be more meaningful than just making it uninteresting, terrible at turning, can't fight creatures on a good basis in it's own tier. I suggest waiting until Cera needs to be added before even thinking of changing the carno or Teno.

vernal sentinel
#

It's been broken af ever since it was added, something needs to be done. Waiting for cera can take like half a year so why not just change it now

alpine plover
#

Cera is probably going to take even longer than that unfortunately. One of the only good playables coming that’s on the roadmap. Kentro and cera could be pretty good counters to carno. as of now? Carno stands on top

vernal sentinel
#

It's depressing to think when will we see things like acro, giga when just a simple cera can take this long

hallow spire
vernal sentinel
#

Carno will not have any real competition for a while, unless pachy ends up being super strong

slim dragon
#

Playables themselves don't take long, it's mechanics that delay the updates

vernal sentinel
#

Or unless they make pounce good again

pearl elbow
#

Teno is a menacing opponent for a carno along with the stego. A group of Utah's can still accomplish the task of killing a carno. Carno is fine for now, I am not sure where you are basing these assumptions from but clearly you are coming at this with a tenuous view on the current state of the game.

#

Once the mechanics are done like bubulblu said the creautres won't take long

sinful cove
#

Carno is fine for now, but emphasis on for now

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto and Deino are currently the best animals for killing Carnos

sinful cove
#

With a bigger roster carno should have his brawling capability reduced

hollow canyon
#

Why? The bigger animals should simply have even better brawling capabilities where they can just take down a Carno easily.

#

Carno atm can at most handle a Tenonto which is a herbivore even smaller than Carno itself.

sinful cove
#

Stego shouldn’t even be considered an opponend for carno either, not every carni should be brawling

#

When the roster is bigger people can choose frim different designs to play from so its not like theyre being forced

hollow canyon
#

I don't remember seeing a Stego go down to Carnos on the current patch. I typically just see them die to Deinos(or I don't see them at all which is the most common scenario).

#

Even then I think that's more of an issue with how bad Stego is

sinful cove
#

I was commenting on his message calling stego an opponent to carno, pretty sure only shite stegos die to them rn

#

Stego is pretty lame rn

hollow canyon
#

Stego was really bad against Carnos before the last patch when it could only use its main attack 10 times but fortunately that got sorted out.

#

Overall I don't understand why anyone would want Carno's biteforce to go down, that should have to be accompanied by nerfs to Utah and Tenonto.

left scroll
#

Carno is only really fine now because it's like, one of two terrestrials carnivores to choose from, and it's prey is limited

#

Once the roster is more fleshed out I wouldn't wanna see them brawling with tenos, or even THINKING about trying a stego. But with how small the roster is currently it doesnt really matter

sinful cove
#

I think a good carno should still be able to take out a less skilled tenonto, but the odds should be in favour of teno at equal skill level

hollow canyon
#

I don't see why a 1.8t theropod shouldn't be brawling with a 1.6t herbivore. Tenontos rightly are and should be on the menu of Carnos.

#

You rightly say though that they shouldn't even think about approaching a Stego.

vernal sentinel
left scroll
#

currently sure. but keep in mind that carno is specifically meant to end up as a speedy small-game hunter. If you're a good carno you might be able to take a teno, but they wouldn't make up a huge portion of what you eat

hollow canyon
#

If a pack of Utahs gets dumsptered by a single Carno they simply have to l2p.

sinful cove
#

Once smaller game is out carno can have his charge improved and his bite reduced in turn, there will be plenty of small playables and ai at thay point. I personally think utah should also have his hp lowered to 750 and other smalls should follow suit unless they are specialized/armoured so they scale with carno's balance

left scroll
#

that's mostly the issue people have with carno atm anyway, because right now it's more of a brawler than a small-game hunter. Once cera is put in though I imagine carno will get tweaked to let cera take the throne as the brawler

vernal sentinel
#

Simple mistake as missing pounce locks you in place for 4 seconds and you die, how is that balanced

hollow canyon
#

Don't miss the pounce then.

vernal sentinel
#

Not to mention bite speed

sinful cove
#

Pounce is hard to miss unless you lag to shit

vernal sentinel
hollow canyon
#

It's really goddamn easy to land it on an animal large than you.

left scroll
#

yeah i dont really play utah because it's not very australian-internet friendly to hunt as 😔

hollow canyon
#

I know, it is, just don't be atrocious at the game while fighting the animal that's meant to be good at killing you.

alpine plover
#

Why even play utah when you can play bigger, better Utah instead?

vernal sentinel
#

Do you even realize how lags fuck you in the ass and make you die in this game

sinful cove
#

The game shouldnt be balanced around lag

left scroll
#

I do think they need to address lag issues even more, they're still pretty significant. But that's an issue with lag, not with utah

sinful cove
#

The solution should be for them to resolve the server lag issues

hollow canyon
#

I do, but the game shouldn't be balanced around lag being around because it's not a constant factor. Besides the rubberbanding has been mostly fixed since the wipe of the official servers that took place 3 days ago.

vernal sentinel
#

Who's saying utah has any issues, besides that animation its fine, its carno thats broken

left scroll
#

so long as you have a pack to back you up you can get away with missing a pounce anyway, which I think is actually a pretty ideal way for it to work

hollow canyon
#

Missing a pounce imo locks a Utah in place for slightly too long. I'd halve that time personally but it should still be locked in place.

#

Atm it seemingly CCs a Utah for longer than pouncing a tree or getting bucked off.

left scroll
#

a solo utah is better at hunting small things unless they're a big risk-taker. But a pack of utahs is where the danger is

hollow canyon
#

Both of which are far more egregious mistakes on the part of a Utah than missing that pounce in the first place.

left scroll
#

imo it kind of depends on what they eventually want utah to end up hunting?

#

that long recovery time from missing a pounce can literally save your life as a dryo or hypsi

hollow canyon
#

It can't as a Dryo because Dryo is not threatened by a Utah in the first place.

left scroll
#

but being as long as it is would be over the top if utah was meant to hunt larger prey

vernal sentinel
#

Assuming they want it to hunt mid tiers in packs, idk at this point

hollow canyon
#

It is perfectly fine - hunting animals that are much larger than you is risky, if you miss the pounce while hunting something much bigger than you you might die but that's on you.

left scroll
#

utah is faster than dryo I thought? idk maybe it's changed

hollow canyon
#

It's not

#

Dryo is faster atm

left scroll
#

I've honestly not played utah in ages lmao

hollow canyon
#

The only thing that threatens a Dryo currently is Dryo's player's stupidity.

left scroll
#

fair enough in that regard. though the point still applies for other small prey, not everything will be as fast as a dryo

#

im kind of ok with it honestly. it's balanced well against hunting small things solo, and in a pack it's less of an issue because your packmates can go harass while you recover

#

the recovery for successfully ending a pounce is the main issue, last I heard it's still long

vernal sentinel
#

husk Even when they harass the thing (in this case carno) can just tank the dmg go up to you and spam bite you to death, gameplay

hollow canyon
#

You're not meant to be killing a Carno with raw damage, you're meant to bleed it out.

vernal sentinel
#

Something that's so simple to play and has really strong stats is overpowered, it was a shitshow when it was running around killing deinos when they didn't know alt bite was a thing

#

I still think it was way better after update 2 when the pounce was good

#

Bucking wasn't as strong but you could run to a tree and stun the utahs

hollow canyon
#

Oh, yea you mean that time when 4 Utahs could take out a Stego in ~30 seconds

vernal sentinel
#

Yep PCE

hollow canyon
#

by pressing rmb in its general direction

#

that was totally balanced, absolutely

vernal sentinel
#

💪

alpine plover
alpine plover
#

👀

pearl elbow
#

To change the carno you would have to wait for a climate where other large terrestrial predators are around and the carno needs to focus more on the small game which it technically already is. What is wrong with a carno being able to fight the small tiers but also combat some creatures around it's weight class. It would be boring just to play a neutered carno. The carno was never meant to struggle against a mid sized group of Utah's as it is meant to beat combat them. Not to say Utahs can't kill a carno but it is a challenge which is good. We can see that carno struggles against spamming similar or higher weight classes. One Utah cannot take down one adult carno, but one Utah can take down one teno. One carno will struggle to fight a Teno 1v1 so requires a pack mate to make it more even as shown in the concept art. Stego will trash carno now in most cases.

fossil gazelle
#

Is the hyperendocrin colossus coming to the game as a playable creature or is just a creature that was a concept that won’t ever be in the game

pearl elbow
#

Carno currently is not a brawler. Carno has good amount of damage for now in the current game climate and but no nerf in bite force below at maximum 300N.

novel tulip
#

Utah is small game, it should be actively hunting them too

#

If a bite force nerf is applied so should a health nerf for Utah especially since it's really high rn given the size of the animal and how short a growth time it has

alpine plover
alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

It's not, it's too high

slim dragon
#

Utah is small game because it's small
It's in carno's prey range

alpine plover
#

If a Utah is seen by a carno it’s pretty hard to avoid it and not die except run into the jungle. Sure a pack of Utah’s could kill a carno easy but rarely anyone plays Utah cause there is so little things for it to hunt. Literally it’s worst counters are current carno and tenanto being a fighter.

slim dragon
#

Utah has all its chances escaping a carno

hollow canyon
#

^

alpine plover
slim dragon
hollow canyon
#

The only situation where I die to Carnos as a Utah is if I actively try to fight them, I've never died to them if I wanted to stay alive.

slim dragon
#

If you're a Utah and decide to travel in plains, better make sure you avoid being seen by any carno

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

Even in the plains you have the big patches of plants where you can hide and avoid Carnos

alpine plover
#

It’s not that it can escape a carno easily. It’s that it has to fight them for food

slim dragon
#

The fact Utah has no better prey than carno atm doesn't mean carno deserves a nerf. Utah is just not supposed to hunt it

#

The ecosystem can't work with the current state on the game. It just can't. So let it not work with normal balance than make it not work with broken balance.

alpine plover
novel tulip
slim dragon
alpine plover
novel tulip
#

No they dont

alpine plover
#

I see it all the time

slim dragon
alpine plover
#

Big carno packs take on stegos and deinos

slim dragon
#

"big carno packs"

#

Sure 10 carnos can kill a deino easily

alpine plover
#

Yes. Which is most carnos

#

In big packs

slim dragon
#

Don't nerf something because people are megapacking...

novel tulip
#

Why are you trying to balance around megapacks

alpine plover
#

Because it’s the best counter to all the sweaty people playing deino like a Rex

#

That’s why there are so many carno packs

novel tulip
#

Theres also utah megapacks everywhere

alpine plover
slim dragon
#

There is a lot of carno megapacks because carno is the biggest predator out of the 6 playables

alpine plover
slim dragon
#

That doesn't mean it should be nerfed

hollow canyon
#

Deino dumpsters Carnos with ease

novel tulip
#

As soon as something else comes out, like cerato, thats going to be the thing megapacking and killing everything and people wanting to see nerfed

hollow canyon
#

Two days ago I had a chance to try that myself - I saw a pack of Carnos with some food on the plain, just walked up to them and usurped their kill and they had the bright idea of contesting me - effect? 3 adult Carnos watching character select screen.

#

Wasn't even really the first time I did that either

#

The rest were smart enough to run for their lives when they realised they're dropping like flies

novel tulip
#

The only time I killed a stego with a small carno pack was because the stego was a horrific player and just stayed on 0 stam the entire fight by spam attacking

#

Stegos with a brain though you can do literally nothing against

hollow canyon
#

I've soloed some Stegos on the previous patch but that was because Stego was atrocious and could swing only 10 times.

alpine plover
#

Carno is supposed to hunt small game such as herrera, Gali, etc

Dryo and hypsi are it’s (supposed) current main food sources. But both of them suck so no one plays them. So guess what they play stego and deino

So now carno is forced to hunt Utah’s, stegos, tenanto, and deino cause A: it has a bit force it shouldn’t, B:it’s preferred prey even pre diets is never played.

If you put in more smaller creatures carno gets more options. Nerf it’s bite the.man it’s played how it’s supposed to. As a small game hunter and bot a allo

novel tulip
#

Druo and hypsi barely even give any food to a carno, why should they even be hard limited to that

#

Utah is small game and actually feeds decently

slim dragon
novel tulip
#

Especially considering utah is half the growth time, idk why you think carno should only barely be able to defend against it

alpine plover
#

But the problem is people playing carno like it’s a allo. Dryo and hypsi might need to give a bit more food sure but it’s all about tweaking everything to make it fit and work properly

hollow canyon
vernal sentinel
#

Imagine nerfing utah specifically for carno to be able to hunt it

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

Utah is small game

#

Tenonto isn't exactly large either

vernal sentinel
#

Dc

hollow canyon
#

both are on the menu

novel tulip
#

Teno should have advantage over carno but still be able to be brought down with skill

slim dragon
alpine plover
#

Tenanto is a fighter. So carno shouldn’t be able to fight that in a 1v1. Utah is a good option for it to hunt however the Utah’s have nothing else to kill so they are forced to fight carnos which are there main predator.

Think of it all like instead of ecosystem chart it’s like legacy where it’s just a straight down line

novel tulip
#

Utah has tons of things going for it already, it can jump on rocks and be completely invulnerable, jump across rivers to instantly end a confrontation, have insane agility it can use to escape predators and run to the woods, pounce at literally every stage of growth, a death sentence to every competing juvi, jump to dodge attacks, 1000hp despite being a 500kg animal, and then have a short growth time of 75 minutes

alpine plover
#

If you have a ecosystem everything should work together well. Now you slap in stego and deino and it becomes a straight line cause there isn’t anything to sustain the lower parts of the ecosystem

#

Because there isn’t much small stuff to hunt for carno and not enough mid tiered stuff for Utah

novel tulip
#

When the pounce gets reworked to be reliable utah will easily go back to hunting stegos and taking down carnos

#

Unless it gets nerfed in some big way

#

Same with teno

#

Utahs have the incredible ability to hunt things many times their size, the balance to that is that if they screw up they die

#

Especially considering how incredibly generous their growth time is right now

alpine plover
#

This is how it should be. A web that everything works together. But evrima took some top tiered stuff and slapped them in before the foundations for the carnos and Utah’s

image0.jpg
novel tulip
#

We know what a food web is

#

This is a game that is still in development, they don't have the tools to put in all the necessary links in the chain

#

Even then gameplay is prioritized over realism

alpine plover
#

My point is stego and deino shouldn’t of been put in

#

And the smaller creatures should be more prioritized before putting these big creatures in

novel tulip
#

Then why are you talking about nerfing carno based on megapacks

alpine plover
#

Because Ingame its not supposed to hunt those kinds of things. Nor be in mega packs. But they need to rn because there is no foundation for them to feed on. And only the big creatures

#

If you take away a fox’s rabbits in a ecosystem. What does it hunt

novel tulip
#

Then why are you trying to nerf them into hunting animals that don't exist

alpine plover
#

The point is carno isn’t how it’s supposed to be

novel tulip
#

The megapacking is due to the small roster and the lack of actual moderation

#

Nothing is how its supposed to be rn, its an early release game

alpine plover
#

I know. I’m just saying because they put in stego and deino before more foundations for the roster. Carno needs a nerf in its bite to be more of a small game hunter and encourage them to not fight deinos and stegos. Then add in more small creatures and mid tiered stuff

novel tulip
#

I dont see anything about stego or deino in your nerf carno suggestion

alpine plover
#

I’m saying why it needs the nerf

#

Because the ecosystem isn’t complete

#

So you start to complete it. Not just leave it with a creature mimicking a allo

novel tulip
#

If the ecosystem isn't complete yet why balance it based around a complete one? You said nothing about nerfing it in the future

frosty heron
#

There's people saying Carno vs Teno 1v1 shouldn't be happening? TI_Wheeze This Herbie mains

alpine plover
#

It’s to encourage them to play there part in the ecosystem

novel tulip
#

You're thinking of an ecosystem that doesn't exist right now

#

They can't play a part that doesn't exist

alpine plover
novel tulip
#

So nerf everything to be unplayable until the game is finished?

alpine plover
#

No

#

That’s not what I said

#

I said put more smaller creatures in and nerf carnos bite to encourage it to play its part as a fast, small game hunter

#

It needs the nerf because stego and deino ruined the current ecosystem being built

novel tulip
#

Thats nowhere in your suggestion but ok

alpine plover
#

Stego and deino CAN be avoided and not hunted. But because there isn’t foundations there hunted cause of lack of options

#

If you nerf carno. They won’t fight stegos and deinos. Then they can focus on adding in smaller creatures to help rebuild the broken ecosystem

#

Or just nerf carno once smaller things are put in

novel tulip
#

We already went over how they literally don't hunt deinos or stegos

#

Megapacks do

#

Balancing individual animals around megapacking is horrible balance

alpine plover
#

Yes but there not supposed to be in mega packs. You prevent mega packs by making it so there encouraged not to fight stegos and deinos

novel tulip
#

If you hate megapacking so much push for actual appropriate moderation

#

If you nerf them they'll just be more inclined to megapack because now what they can hunt solo is even more limited

#

Again, you're balancing around an ecosystem that doesn't exist

alpine plover
#

You can’t have a ecosystem until you build it

dusky surge
#

i agree with weakening carno's bite force and buffing its charge

#

this is really what carno needs to feel fun and unique as a creature

novel tulip
#

Thats like removing beaks off of birds to prepare for when you eventually add frogs into the area

dusky surge
#

right now its an LMB smasher

alpine plover
#

There just needs to be more small stuff so that when you nerf carnos bite it’s encouraged to hunt the smaller stuff

alpine plover
novel tulip
#

I think nerfing to 300 and making the ambush activate earlier than top speed would be the best route

#

Where the hell did i mention pteranodon

alpine plover
novel tulip
#

Theres literally no pteranodon in that sentence

alpine plover
#

You made it sound like you were talking about it

novel tulip
#

I was talking about a hypothetical food web with birds in it

alpine plover
#

Ok if birds have no frogs to eat. Your saying they should be fighting dogs?

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Cause that’s basically how the game is right now

novel tulip
#

If you nerf birds to hunt inexisyent frogs they just die

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No one would play them

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As the devs have stated multiple time they balance around the roster available in the patch and it'll changes over time as more are added

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Nerfing everything right now is a terrible idea

alpine plover
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Ok maybe I should of put some more thought instead of just nerf carno.

Nerf carnos bite and add more small stuff to fix the balance

novel tulip
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I think the only thing I disagree with is the value of the bite and excluding utah as small game

alpine plover
novel tulip
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If ptera and deino weren't added the fan base would cause a riot

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Those two had been promised since evrima was announced

alpine plover
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Why not just balance the game first before adding those in

novel tulip
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For stego i have literally no idea

alpine plover
novel tulip
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Lmao hell no

alpine plover
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Pteranodon I can understand but putting deino in was a mistake

novel tulip
#

From a marketing pov putting deino and ptera in this early is to keep your game from dying

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As well as getting a lot of basic code foundation in so you can do the higher level ones

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Deino sucks balance wise but there are greater reasons than balance to put it in

alpine plover
novel tulip
#

Evrima actually became alive when those two showed up as they were the new thing

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Why would bary swim like a gator or a fish

alpine plover
#

What else is gonna swim like a gator or fish?

novel tulip
#

Even then small deinos are a nice food source

alpine plover
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Our semi aquatics are bary, austro, sucho, spino, minmi, deino, beipi

novel tulip
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Emphasis on semi

alpine plover
#

They can go on both land and water. That does not mean they should go on land or in water but they have both as a option

Deino CAN go on land but it’s preferred to be in water

novel tulip
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Don't see any of those full swimming except for minmi

alpine plover
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Idk. They should of just waited to work on deino

novel tulip
#

They could have but then the game would still be pretty dead

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After update 3 evrima had some semblance of an ecosystem as players actually populated servers

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Even if its just beyblade deinos and megapacks

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Better than an unplayable game

alpine plover
#

Because of croc?

novel tulip
#

Deino and ptera made people switch over

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Theyre new and fun

alpine plover
#

Bary would of still been a much better semi aquatic pick early on

novel tulip
#

Balance wise? Maybe

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For the games overall success? No

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Deino has added a lot of nice things though, like dumb deino babies to hunt and drinking water a challenge

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Also actually creating a place where people can congregate and form player interaction (center)

alpine plover
#

True. But then before you put in deino at least balance the rest of the roster with smaller creatures like herrera, Gali and ovi

novel tulip
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Well too bad, it's not an ideal world

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They needed deino in to compete with the market and keep people interested

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Imo it'll be much better balance wise when they make the alt bite have stam drain so it can't just run around on land

alpine plover
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Yeah. But I’m just trying to think of how to rebuild the broken ecosystem the game is working towards

novel tulip
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The best route for that is to just balance the game as each new animal is added

alpine plover
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Fair enough

novel tulip
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So the game is playable over the next 5 years, instead of unplayable for 5 years

alpine plover
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Now stego devs wtf went through your head saying. Let’s add a sorta pseudo apex for these small game hunters

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i’m actually happy with the state of the game right now. there’s a lot of challenge because of obvious imbalances

novel tulip
#

It has flaws and weirdness but yeah its playable and fun

alpine plover
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Deino adds fun but also loads of broken balance

novel tulip
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Also once they fix pounce I think stego will have threats again

alpine plover
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I mean who knows what will happen with Rex ai

novel tulip
#

Deinos have also figured out how to kill them

alpine plover
#

deinos make the game exciting. each time you drink you never know what’ll happen. even if there’s no deinos anywhere nearby, you don’t know that. makes the world feel a little more full since you have no idea where they are.

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fixing pounce will be dope

hollow canyon
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There's hardly any challenge with Deino just rolling over the rest of the roster.

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I feel like no other animal is really worth playing currently just because of how good Deinosuchus is.

worldly venture
#

@versed rune yes, same with Tenontosaurus

pearl elbow
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Then Aken, you haven't played a lot. Deino is water locked so there is still plenty of reasons to play teno, stego, utah and carno

civic moth
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I mean

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that's wrong

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he played quiet a lot Deinosuchus recently

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Also bush Deino being some kind of fun tho

hollow canyon
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I just sat there killing anything and everything for 2 hours straight.

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As for Deino being water-locked. Cool joke, is that why I got to run in-land to bully a Carno pack off of their kill in the southern plains and kill 3 adult Carnos in the process?

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This is what happened in one place, on the other bank of the river after I'd killed an adult Deino I had a couple of Utah adults contest me - I got three kills on adult Utahs and some on the small ones. The rest rightly decided to run for their lives after the adults died.

BBF1C9F286CD3731E7B1B647FD0C3F24012BE1CE.png
#

Literally any other animal is kind of garbage compared to Deinosuchus right now.

pearl elbow
#

not stego, utahs can kill a deino. Plus deino is the apex of evrima

hollow canyon
#

Not sure what you're trying to say - Utahs can kill a Deino but Stego can't? Or that neither Stego nor Utahs can kill a Deino?

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Because if it's the latter then yea I agree - only Deino gets to killed Deino

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The only issue with the whole "apex argument" is that the dumb croc is easier to grow than a Carno.

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I can throw this one off a cliff and get another one with zero effort.

pearl elbow
#

My point was stegos can kill deinos, rather well on land

hollow canyon
#

Deino can kill them just fine on land too, it's a 50/50 match up. I've killed a Stego like 3 days ago on a Deino. Unfortunately I rarely see Stegos to kill them more often.

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Not to mention - you don't have to fight a Stego on land, it's your choice if you do it but there's nothing forcing you to contest it

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Meanwhile the Stego in question has to come to water to drink and then you can fight it on your terms

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and guess how that ends?

pearl elbow
#

played stego, also on EU5 killed two deinos, several utahs and carnos. However, i am not saying stego is the only creautre to play on evrima

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Every creature is good to play with two exceptions

civic moth
#

tbh

hollow canyon
#

I've killed far more than two Deinos just today

civic moth
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and even that

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Deinos can still kill Stegos on land

hollow canyon
#

^

pearl elbow
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yeh i am stego i don't hunt for food

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It is not a measure of who killed more, it is me pointing out that carno, utah, teno, ptera, stego are valid to play instead of deino.

hollow canyon
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They can be played but I don't know why anyone would since Deino is just much better

pearl elbow
#

but, not excluding deino

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5 hour growth time

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cannibals, killing you

civic moth
#

It is still easier than any of them

#

like

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hiding in the jungle next to the river

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take fish

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grow

hollow canyon
#

With Carno or Utah you have to at least put some effort, get food and water. Deino meanwhile doesn't have to interact with a single person until it's fully grown.

pearl elbow
#

Yeah and that is boring as f

hollow canyon
#

At this point I'm just growing them like in a factory. I feel like losing a Carno is more of a loss than losing a Deino

pearl elbow
#

if people want action during their growth and not just sitting afk

hollow canyon
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Then Carno and Utah are the best picks

pearl elbow
#

yes, as carno is more enjoyable

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overall

hollow canyon
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Deino shouldn't even get to grow like this by sitting afk completely safe from everything without risking anything to get to full adult if other playables have to actually put effort into their growth.

pearl elbow
#

Deino is great stat wise no question but, why do you think people choose utah it isn't for their 130N bite force

hollow canyon
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Deino has an absurdly long hunger which it also gets to sustain off of fish

teal pecan
hollow canyon
#

I honestly don't know why people choose Utah on the current patch - probably because it's a raptor and these are always popular.

teal pecan
#

tbh I haven't seen that many utahs lately, so it's probably ppl who like how small and agile it is and are smart enough not to use pounce, or just utah mains that like it

hollow canyon
#

I've killed like a dozen or more today, mainly smalls but there were like 4-5 adults among them

pearl elbow
#

you can kill a full grown stego as utah, there is team play, hunting tenos, and picking off carnos in coordinated packs

hollow canyon
#

Deino can do all of the above with much less effort

pearl elbow
#

yes, but that doesn't devalue the utah, just cos you can alt bite and hide in the water doesn't make utah not a good creature

teal pecan
#

some ppl like to have a challange

hollow canyon
#

well minus the coordinated packs part because you don't need a pack, you can just do it on your own

pearl elbow
#

yes, but when you die instead of regrowing in a quick fashion you have just lost 5 hours

hollow canyon
#

It does devalue Utah though, it devalues every other creature that isn't a Deinosuchus simply because Deinosuchus does everything they do better.

pearl elbow
#

Can a deino jump

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can a deino fly

teal pecan
#

ok let's be honest, there must be a reason why so many ppl play deino even tho it's mainly supposed to be an ambush water predator, and that's cuz it's so strong

hollow canyon
#

It doesn't need to do either of those to be the better playable

pearl elbow
#

Also it is a prehistoric crocodile which has been hotly anticipated with great animations too boot

#

yes, also the stats are great

hollow canyon
#

It is the better playable due to vastly superior health regeneration, easy growth, enormous firepower and a oneshot mechanic that allows it to destroy the entire roster minus Deino itself and Stego

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bleed resistance, bleed healing

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the list goes on

pearl elbow
#

Deino has a great deal of advantages no doubt about it. However, there are methods to killing these crocs especially those that leave the safety of the river

hollow canyon
#

are there?

pearl elbow
#

mhm

grave veldt
#

hold on im gonna count all the positives of deino

  • can go on land in water and basically have 0 threats if it chooses to
  • basically bodies everything except stego on land because of alt bite
  • stego while it should be better in everyway on land still somehow has a 50/50 on land
  • super easy to grow arguably the 2nd easiest carnivore to grow apart from ptera
hollow canyon
#

Aside from bringing in an entire Stego herd what would that be? Stego is the only animal that can even hope to fight a Deino

teal pecan
grave veldt
#

the fact that deino is somehow harder to kill on land then stego is an issue in and of itself

pearl elbow
#

oh but you see there are ways

grave veldt
teal pecan
teal pecan
grave veldt
#

yes stego and deino have rly weird hitboxes

#

also becuz of deinos non existent collision it can basically bite the stegos head thru its ass

pearl elbow
#

Deino stat, wise yes, is the best aside from stegos tail. People play the other dinos for the challenge of taking down deinos, or fighting two stegos pretty much with just a small pack of utahs

teal pecan
pearl elbow
#

the feel of the terrestrials is very different to the deino, and if you know the safe drinking spots, well you will never to deinos

grave veldt
#

deino should be a challenging fight

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not impossible

pearl elbow
#

deino is not impossible i have killed two as my stego.

grave veldt
#

yes as said before it has a 50/50 with it on land mind u

pearl elbow
#

1 utah, was able to seriously injure a deino, even when using alt bite

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5 utahs killed an adult deino at pocket today

grave veldt
#

also any deino who doesnt know how to take down stegos will get bodied

pearl elbow
#

i just sat and watched

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even then, a stego can sooo easily kill a deino on land it is laughable

grave veldt
#

those r bad deinos i dont think u have seen what other good deinos do nowadays

pearl elbow
#

i killed two adults, already on orange, and they were full health

#

two adult deinos and i was a stego

grave veldt
#

again bad deinos

pearl elbow
#

alt biting

grave veldt
#

just becuz u alt bite doesnt mean ur good

pearl elbow
#

no they alt bited, i was stego

#

they even lunged and got some hits on me

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but, when they came to finish me, i killed them and they were working as a team

#

Besides the point it doesn't matter, if they are bad or good. Just that it is possible and tested to be difficult but possible

hollow canyon
#

trash Deinos, it's really as simple as that

#

There's no excuse for 2 Deinos dying to a single Stego

pearl elbow
#

You missed, the point, people have off days, you have off days, everyone has off days. They also have good. The point is two deino died to my stego

#

making it not impossible just difficult

#

to kill a deino

hollow canyon
#

The point is that Stego is the only animal that can hope to kill a Deino with Deino having the choice whether that fight takes place or not

#

All the others have to just run away from Deino because it can kill them

grave veldt
#

the point here is that if the deino plays correctly it is in fact almost impossible to kill

pearl elbow
#

A pack of utahs can, a pack of carnos killed three alt biting deinos that went on to land

#

Yes, play properly

grave veldt
#

just becuz their alt biting doesnt mean their automatically good

hollow canyon
#

a pack of Utahs gets murdered by any Deino that isn't outright atrocious

grave veldt
#

^

pearl elbow
#

No just means they can hit their enemies and not be ridden to death

hollow canyon
#

bleed does nothing to a Deino, it has the best bleed resistance in the game

#

it heals bleed in no time

pearl elbow
#

on land there isn't much skill involved

hollow canyon
#

Carnos get murdered as well

#

They can't be ridden to death unless they are clueless

pearl elbow
#

yes, so they use alt bite

#

that is the only difference on land between a good and bad deino

#

if they miss they miss, everyone does

grave veldt
#

no its not alt biting has certain angles

#

just pressing alt bite doesnt make u amazing

pearl elbow
#

No it doesn't you just have to aim

hollow canyon
#

There is far to it than knowing that alt bite exists

grave veldt
#

^

pearl elbow
#

Ok so what kind of magical flying kick can a deino do

hollow canyon
#

a good Deino will dumpster a Utah pack, a Carno pack and just about anything aside from Stego/another Deino

pearl elbow
#

By using what may i hear

#

ALT BITE

#

on land, not at water

#

on land

#

You said you can go on land and not worry at all

hollow canyon
#

it's both, you use it both on land and in the water

pearl elbow
#

but deino has poor stam, on land making it vulnerable to pounces, very small water pool

hollow canyon
#

if a Utah pounces a Deino it just dies