balance-feedback-discussion

[dim crown]

For testing\development purposes it worked in Legacy

[zenith vessel]

This roster looks so good so much to choose from

[alpine plover]

@jagged cosmos

theres 0 issues with current deino balance, it doesnt need any sort of buff, infact it needs a nerf.

[jagged cosmos]

i legit said dont change its stats, all i said was change the water.

"instead of changing deino, how about just fix the water"

[grave veldt]

luckily the whole map is getting reworked

again

[jagged cosmos]

hopefully they fix water mechanics with the new water when that happens

[grave veldt]

so it'll pretty much fix most issues

i mean u'll still be able to be as submerged as u are now

whether its new water or not

but with actual good rivers and things as such deinos wont have issues

[jagged cosmos]

thats bc when they fixed the floating bug they introduced the weird ability to sprint full speed while half submerged in water, its just weird

but yeah i hope with new rivers it wont even be an issue

[grave veldt]

so happy they got jace

[jagged cosmos]

me too, his work looks amazing so far

[grave veldt]

i followed him a little awhile ago b4 this so was glad to see he got in

[alpine plover]

the water change you suggested is a massive buff

that deino doesnt need

Wait is there a bug I didnt hear about?

[alpine plover]

@tall plaza

walks are meant to be slow….

[tall plaza]

I know they’re meant to be slow, but it’s just way too slow

[jagged cosmos]

Fixing a broken game mechanic isnt a buff lol. Before they updated the water it was fine, entering the water that deep caused you to swim like it should. but now that they changed it, you can go into the water near the shore and even if its deep you can still stand and run around just fine.

[ripe zinc]

You can' sprint full speed when half submerged in water, stop lying.

[zenith vessel]

Nah not full speed you are slowed down by a lot

And even at shallows utahs are slowed down

[grave veldt]

thats why trot exists

[gaunt jackal]

@alpine plover , your second idead would just make it so friend groups would spend a week nesting eachother and stacking perks onto eachother

or just some days

[grave veldt]

did they get that name from invincible

o wait nvm its an omniVORE suggestion

my bad

[gaunt jackal]

i was so confused for a second

[grave veldt]

perks should be things that add things to your dino w/o being overbearing

no perks should be stat wise

stats should remain the same instead of say increasing stam for a perk u can say increase amount ___ attack

like tenos stam remains the same but with the perks ur allowed say 12 tail slams instead of 9

something like that which doesnt affect anything stat wise but still gives u an advantage for growing through the whole elder cycle

[alpine plover]

Bruh compy’s and herra and troodons aren’t even omnivores

[hallow spire]

Irl troodon was a omnivore but that doesn’t matter since in game it’s a carnivore same for hererra so no they shouldn’t get grazing

[vagrant mural]

Perks should be qol or side grades

At least normal ones anyway

[wet pivot]

Some person said , troodon , herra , compy , should have "omnivore" perk

Nah

I Just wanna know why all these small tiers

[lament cloak]

wdym?

[wet pivot]

Like some dino's viability is questionable , Ok so minmi , beipi , troodon , ovi , hypsi and maybe velo and proto i can see be viable , but like , homalo is pachy but shrinked

[lament cloak]

because if your saying there is alot of small animals, there isnt. at least in the grand scheme of things (this isn't even all the confirmed animals)

[wet pivot]

Unless every thing get's burrow

[wet pivot]

Wow

these all coming to the isle someday

[lament cloak]

homa is going to be upsized to somewhere between hypsi and dryo. the chart is just the accurate sizes (for the most part they are accurate)

[wet pivot]

Nice

[lament cloak]

all of those are either hard confirmed, or soft confirmed, meaning they all have a really good shot at making it in.

however some might only be ai on official servers, such as compy

[slim dragon]

and brachi

[wet pivot]

Wait

so they will have growth

just available in other servers

or they gonna be liek sandbox

Which i dont like how sandbox dinos are

Like only nested

[lament cloak]

they will, everything will get the playable treatment. its just servers will be able to enable and disable certain animals, and compy wont be enabled on official

[wet pivot]

I Feel like they should do everything playable ,

The Isle ain't the same without my choncky boi

Like can it atleast come last , after all these Mf

[lament cloak]

however they will be on official as ai, so brachi and compy will still appear, its just they are ai

[wet pivot]

IK but some people wanna play as a walking un killable giant or a small rat type creature

Like that's why some people ain't gonna play officials

[lament cloak]

nothing is unkillable, some good gigas and your brachi is in alot of danger.

[wet pivot]

I Think cama may be more OP than brachi lol

SInce high legs

UNlike brachi

[lament cloak]

wdym high legs? brachi seems to have some pretty long legs to me, idk if that is what you meant though. oh and bronto is soft confirmed too

[dim radish]

Yeah I don't see every animal being viable either.
Like... Homalo, Mono and stuff, because Homalo and Mono are basically Pachy and Dilo but worse

[zenith vessel]

I completely forgot about apato jeez sorry apato

[vagrant mural]

Mono we have no idea what it’s gonna do

[dim radish]

Mono is just dilo with less lophosaurus and crest

[grand geyser]

@alpine plover What pounce issue?

[alpine plover]

the delay when a pounce misses

well.. every delay about the pounce really

[grand geyser]

that is a mechanic and is intended

[alpine plover]

when you crash against something, it takes a lot time to just get up

[grand geyser]

high risk high reward

[alpine plover]

when they get you off, same..

when you fail it's the same

it's not high risk high reward

it is high risk low reward because if you fail the pounce you're technically dead

[grand geyser]

and that is because you are bad then

you are supposed to die when you miss

[alpine plover]

not really

it shouldn't be so punishable

[grand geyser]

yes really

[alpine plover]

it should give a little bit of room to maneuver

every dino will kill you if the pounce misses

[grand geyser]

then don't miss

easy as that

[alpine plover]

what's the point of having a pounce if you can't use it because of that

okay shakespeare 😛

[grand geyser]

get good or get punished

that is how a hardcore survival game is supposed to work

[alpine plover]

Utah was always a dinosaur that the slightest mistake you make, you die..

but currently not many people use the pounce because of how extremely punishable it is..

yes, you should get hit

but you shouldn't die because you failed

you should at least have a chance of survivability

the current pounce doesn't give you that

it's hit or die.. and it is unbalanced because of that

everything that isn't a Dryo or Hypsi or Ptera could just kill you because of it

[vagrant mural]

I mean Utah is so small either the stuff it pounces is gone by the time the anim is over or is so big it essentially one shots it

[alpine plover]

yeah, Utah gets one shoted if the pounce misses..

it shouldn't really happen.

[vagrant mural]

But the opportunity to do insane bleed and essentially force the target to waste stam is also insane

So it’s fine

The opportunity to essentially one shot smaller things and punch pretty high above your weight is balanced by being fucked if you miss

If you want a more reliable and less risky option you can just bite it

[grand geyser]

or play carno 🙂

[alpine plover]

well, it seems like we have different views about it

you don't really want to pounce on smaller pray.. the rate that you'll hit the pounce is low

especially if it's something quick like Dryo or Hypsi

even tenonto could be hard to hit

[vagrant mural]

Well yeah, because it’s fast

Idk why utahs try to pounce things that are actively trying to run away tho, it’s an ambush/ wearing down tool

[alpine plover]

I don't try to pounce those at all, because I know I'll miss most of the time

because yeah, they're fast..

but for other things.. Stego, Carno.. Deino, Tenonto.. even other Utah's.. the pounce just punishes you too much and basically gives you no room to do anything other than just die

[golden coral]

How you'd miss a pounce on a stego I have no idea..

Carno, utah, I can see, tenno.. somewhat, depending on what it does

But a stego.. if you miss that, that's on you

[alpine plover]

failing is always on you

but it can still happen

and if you do.. it's death time

[golden coral]

Well yes.. you messed up. That much makes sense. The issue with utah is the dismount distance/"stop" on landing, the rest is fine

[grand geyser]

agreed

[alpine plover]

not for me, but yeah

[golden coral]

Well, there should be some punishment for missing the pounce. And a greater one if you get knocked off/down cause of tree/rock or out of stamina. And those punishments have to be sufficient to make you go "oh shit", so you do your best to avoid it.

[silent comet]

Remove utah = problem solved

[golden coral]

Just so.. :p

[grand geyser]

fix desync and rubberbanding = problem solved

[silent comet]

Who dared to ping me

[zenith vessel]

Me lol

I called you noob as a joke then deleted it

[dim radish]

Fix all bugs = delete game

[silent comet]

Toxik.

[zenith vessel]

Add all dinos rn = finished game

[silent comet]

Remove all dinos = no balance needed

[zenith vessel]

Eating Burger = Yum.

[shrewd storm]

https://tenor.com/view/food-lunch-dinosaur-jurassic-park-t-rex-gif-13927520

[silent comet]

Ey thats what we pimp chimpin' about, had those mc'd fries and a vegan burger today

[shrewd storm]

vegan burger

is that even a burger at that point

_>

[wheat field]

Real Burger > Vegan Burger

[shrewd storm]

^

[shrewd storm]

https://tenor.com/view/grass-munching-eating-sun-weed-gif-15563090

[silent comet]

I use white discord so what so u expect from me at this point

[shrewd storm]

ew

w h y

dark mode is god's mode

[wheat field]

🤮LIGHT MODE USER 🤮

[silent comet]

[wheat field]

Why do you have 2750 notifications...

[frosty heron]

Now I get why you said "Delete Utah"

[shrewd storm]

just noticed that what in the fuk

[silent comet]

Umm yea right about that...

Im pretty sure i had more than 50k actually

[shrewd storm]

b r u h

[zenith vessel]

Stop it. Get some help

[shrewd storm]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-7929301

[wheat field]

Do you just not open discord servers or even mute notifications

[silent comet]

Exactly. The 100 servers limit is a huge pain in the ass ngl

[wheat field]

Why do you have 100servers to begin with

This ain’t even fucking feedback

[silent comet]

Thats a good question. Why cant we the people who build this platform, the community have more than 100 discord servers? Utter dissapointment

[wheat field]

I’ve given up on you. Your a lost cause

[zenith vessel]

ikr

[sinful cove]

If you miss a pounce, your victim deserves that opportunity to kill you. Utah is such an easily megapackable animal it doesn't deserve an easy way out when it makes a mistake against large opponents

[silent comet]

Or just play carno. Best in every aspect, easier to find people to megapack with like what else do you need

[silent comet]

[fathom obsidian]

i agree missing punishment is good, dismounting punishment is dumb tho

[shrewd storm]

I agree but I think the missing punishment shouldnt be as long

like its what like 3 seconds rn

most things can get ya like that

[fathom obsidian]

yeah but once you fix dismounting punishment utah will be good again, so im fine with a long miss punishment

[shrewd storm]

^

[fathom obsidian]

should be high risk high reward not low risk high reward

but not even the current high risk no reward

[silent comet]

And nerf carno

[golden coral]

You could lower the missed pounce punishment when the slot thing is fixed, so you have to aim properly or risk getting knocked on your ass anyway.

[silent comet]

Utahs miss punishment is quite long but its for balancing purposes and i think that it shouldnt be shorter

Nerf carno also

[fathom obsidian]

I agree wolf

agreed too

[golden coral]

Even so, with proper aiming needed, that would add some extra difficulty, so it would be fair that a miss isn't as bad then, if the "mis-aim" is bad instead.

[silent comet]

Just hit ur shots m8 git gud

There should be pvp maps or smth

Like sandbox in legacy

[hallow spire]

What part of carno would u nerf

[sinful cove]

considering how easy it is to juke the jab on top of the fact it is stego's only defensive ability, it has no excuse to cost so much stam

it should have an AOE sweep that deals less damage but heavily punishes uncoordinated swarms of smaller dinos in melee range that would have an excuse to drain stego's stam the way its current jab does, but it shouldn't be punished for jabbing

stego has pitiful excuse for AOE coverage and is doomed by its own ability that both utah and carno are agile enough to juke

[grave veldt]

stego has way too many downsides for it to be nerfed

it needs to be looked at

otherwise its gonna turn into legacy para

or maybe even worse

legacy pachy

[sinful cove]

legacy trike

a weak animal disguised as a strong one

i guess it's not as much about it being weak as it is about him just having shit attacks and low hp for his weight though

[grave veldt]

legacy trike

is literally just

the best way to sum it up is basically
"im gonna pretend to be strong"

[sinful cove]

legacy trike is fodder, just like most stegos rn

yeah pretty much, a paper tiger

looks strong, but is actually just an apex happy meal

[grave veldt]

its like im gonna pretend to fight this rex even if i lose everytime

[sinful cove]

stego is being hunted by something that is supposed to be hunting things smaller than itself, along with being taken out by a couple utahs or even soloed at times by utah i've heard

[grave veldt]

yup

it also doesnt help that its tail attack is poopoo

[sinful cove]

for something too slow to run or hide, the devs sure shit on its combat ability

and a 5 hour growth on top of that

[grave veldt]

i actually thought stego was finally gonna be cool now

after they fixed carnos tail riding it

but no

instead it got nerfed

and deino found a way to spam alt bite and kill it

[sinful cove]

the whining from carni players who want to hunt everything in the game with ease seems to be listened to

[grave veldt]

i swear stego gets shitted on every update lol

atleast teno is good

[sinful cove]

yeah only bad deinos or unlucky ones who get lynched by a group of stegos die to them now

[grave veldt]

teno is how u balance a dino

[edgy grove]

a carno tail riding a stego?

[grave veldt]

yup

[edgy grove]

how

[grave veldt]

it was super easy and popular

u bite the tail and abuse its hitbox

thats all fixed now tho

so worry not

[sinful cove]

yeah there was a bug where carno could attack stego tail during its attack animation reset and take 0 damage, after juking the attack. it was pretty well known

and it seemed to do full body damage

just attacking the tail tip

[grave veldt]

yup

thats all fixed now thank god

although it still gets shitted on anyways

[sinful cove]

yeah fixed and replaced with more suffering unfortunately

as per usual

smells like legacy herbivore balance all over again

[grave veldt]

i like how the carnivores always tend to be the super op ones that they have to rebalance/fix

[sinful cove]

utah always needs rebalancing, the devs seem to love that one

carno is mostly fine, the fault in the carno/stego matchup falls on stego's balancing for the most part

[grave veldt]

utah to be completely fair actually feels ok now

[sinful cove]

yeah utah isnt terrible now but it still is capable of juking and soloing stego with just bites to the head

[grave veldt]

just fix the dismounting issue and its in a decent state

[sinful cove]

but again that falls on stego's shitty balancing

[grave veldt]

thats cuz stego sucks

a lot

utah itself feels actually balanced now

if they fix the dismounting issue its in a great spot

[sinful cove]

utah could have a minor hp and weight reduction and the ability to kick off from a voluntary pounce for a safer disengage if it managed its stam well, but other than that its fine

[grave veldt]

i rly rly hope stego gets looked at b4 its too late

[sinful cove]

look at the scrappy bastard, that thing does NOT weigh 500kg and it doesn't deserve 1000hp, if it had its weight reduced a bit it would be better against fall damage and with a minor hp nerf to 750 it would be more appealing to carno who is supposed to be hunting things in utah's size range anyway. a utah who manages its stam and disengages voluntarily doesn't deserve to be punished for it, the missing/knocked stun can stay the way it is

stego should get an hp buff because it is pretty far under his weight for some reason despite being build pretty densly. it needs an AOE to punish smaller attackers that costs more stam, maybe as much as the current jab, and its jab should be reduced in cost

[grave veldt]

4500 hp seems alright to me

actually 5000 would be good

[sinful cove]

when larger predators are added it should DEFINITELY get a good hp buff

otherwise it will be a joke against things like allo, especially with its current attack

[grave veldt]

its big drawback is its attacking method honestly

and also how much stam it costs

[sinful cove]

it's all around a terribly balanced ability

[grave veldt]

literaly 10 swings

and ur outta stam

thats insane

like i literally stopped playing stego becuz of that

[sinful cove]

the only herbivore with decent balancing right now is teno, dryo and hypsi are lazy and rushed and stego is just plain awful

i hope they don't shit on pachy too

and kentro

[grave veldt]

^

[hallow spire]

Anybody else getting tired of stegos running up to a tree and standing beside it so u can’t hit it from both sides lol

[grave veldt]

honestly not rly

[golden coral]

And what would you have them do? :p Also I doubt that's a stego only thing, seems logical to me that any one would try to defend their sides/front/back, with terrain that is available

[high shale]

Whilst I’d love stego to get some kind of aoe for dealing with getting swarmed. All they really need to do for now is revert the stam change to his jab from patch 3. It’s literally worse than tenonto. It takes the same amount of tail slams to kill a carno/Utah for both of them, except tenonto just has to spam alt-lmb at no stam cost. Tenonto is faster, has much better stam regen, and has options for when it’s out of stam. Let’s not forget it takes less than half the time to grow. Compared to the other 5 hour growth playable deinosuchus, which can one shot lunge everything in the game except stego. Stego is a joke right now.

[grave veldt]

^

Actually no it rly does need some kind of aoe swing

Its attack method feels like an alt attack

[sinful cove]

i cant blame stegos for wedging themselves between trees when their setup is so shit

[frosty heron]

🧂

[sinful cove]

very constructive response there bro

[frosty heron]

I don't need to make any more constructive stuff torwards the Stego than I already did, everytime I go constructive people keep spitting on my arguments, I already said what Stego needs to be in a good spot, new attacks, reduced grow time

[grave veldt]

reduced grow time?

[sinful cove]

So why bother trying to bait after a conversation between other people about stego's poor situation? Seems like you just want a bit of drama

[frosty heron]

But I don't see the Stego is as bad as people just said, yes not the most complete playable but neither trash, you got that stamina cost in exchange for being the most damaging playable in the game. People just should place better their attacks, don't get baited, counterbait, use terrain, etc

[grave veldt]

its not always as easy as u think

and having only 10 tail swings is suicide

thats literally its only main attack

no reason to cost so much

[sinful cove]

It isnt only baitable but jukable as well, and something that has no control over the confrontation does not deserve such a punishing cost on its only defense

[frosty heron]

Says Mister "JP Utahs deserve to die because yes"

[sinful cove]

Lmao thats literally a joke and i havent even said that lately

I hate its model thats why i piss at it

[frosty heron]

I don't hate on any playable bro

[sinful cove]

Good for you i guess, i find utah's model an insult to the animal

[frosty heron]

I only did on Legacy because Legacy had some stupid ones but that's just... Legacy..

[sinful cove]

Utah could look cool but they went with that instead, but that's off the topic

[frosty heron]

Revert it to Update 2, but then keep its HP, I don't see a reason to make It tankier if that gives you more missing swings opportunities

HP will directly affect on that, more HP you have more opportunities to hit a swing you have

You both think I don't saw what a Deino is capable to do to a Stego at its current status? Of course I did and it didn't felt right but that maybe will keep Stegos out from the rivers fishing Deinos

Punch already said they wanted to give Stego a bit of care on its attacks so I don't understand the amount of complaiment, it's matter of time

[granite gate]

@elfin night small deinos dont need to be magically faster than adult crocs, there just needs to be more underwater cover for them to lose the adult crocs in. if you're out in the open as, say, a baby carno and an adult carno wants you dead....... you're gonna die unless you find cover. does that mean we should make baby carnos faster? no, juveniles in the game just need cover (and specifically for deinos, for underwater water sense to be removed)

[sinful cove]

Deinos can see the bright blue bubble fart rings through foliage

If they add foliage underwater it probably wont do much

[granite gate]

yeah that's why i added the part at the end

underwater water sense should be removed

[sinful cove]

It should just be changed imo

Though yeah its pretty unnecessary when deinos have pretty clear sight underwater anyway

It could show up for things breaching the surface of the water and things that are bleeding, nothing else is needed especially since smaller aquatics are coming that can be screwed over too

[granite gate]

^

yeh thats what i meant by underwater water sense

surface stuff should stay since it helps deinos target terrestrials or careless deino juvies but the underwater thing's pretty wack and just encourages afking

[alpine plover]

I'm pretty sure the deino walk and crawl are relatively the same speed. Plus, if it's absolutely impossible to not get cannibalize as a deino, maybe it's because there's too many of them lol

[alpine plover]

Also, I agree. Maybe it should only show for things that are swimming quickly or stiring water at the surface. Currently it's either, don't enter the water at all and hope nobody sees you, or sit at the bottom of a river until you think it's safe.

[zenith vessel]

Oh you dont say

[marble pond]

I'm not entirely opposed to making juvenile deinos "faster" than adults with an ability or a speed boost or whatever, but can't justify giving them overall superior movement to adults. What we really need is more ways for them to hide, which is their current advantage against adults. Give them more places like those logs in the swamp, where they can enter but adults can't.

Right now it's very difficult to grow a deino in a river with hostile deino adults. So I don't. I just play in the swamp, there's vastly more options to escape hostile deinos in that area, it's practically an underwater junglegym with loads of cover that the rest of the map doesn't have. That feels like what little deinos are supposed to be doing anyway.

[left scroll]

yeah, I think part of the issue currently is the swamp is a perfect place to grow a young deino... but you have to get there first, which can be treacherous

[marble pond]

Or you can just spawn in the southeast.

[hallow spire]

@alpine plover exactly if u get pounced by another Utah with a pack it’s basically a death sentence you’ll bleed out or either get bitten to death by it’s pack this gets super annoying lol

[high shale]

@hallow spire if you’re a solo Utah and you see a pack, it’s your assumption they’d be friendly. If you start running away from them they can’t pounce you. Unless you’re playing on a rules server you shouldn’t easily trust strangers, even if they’re the same species. I don’t personally see how you can get pounced by another Utah unless you either get outplayed in a 1v1. Or you get surprised by an ambush, in both cases I think it makes sense you lose.

[hallow spire]

Ik and the only way a Utah can really hunt more things is with a pack so it makes sense why they would go up to strangers and try to 2 call but basically Utah should get a bucking is what I’m trying to say

[marble pond]

I don't think it's fair for an adult utah at full stam to immediately die from another adult utah with full stam. I think utahs should have some sort of pounce resistance, or give a consequence for pouncing as was suggested previously. Such as the pouncee inflicting moderate bleed on the pouncer.
You can argue that any utah being able to take out any other utah is balanced, but it certainly isn't balanced in a fun way.

Utahs should not be punished that heavily for being around other utahs just because someone in the group got hungry. Utahs are supposed to be pack hunters, whereas the current balance between adult utahs pouncing one another encourages them to play solo.

[tall plaza]

@alpine plover I like your Utah suggestion, and honestly it would encourage to avoid intra-species combat (cannibalism) at least in Utahs because damage would be most likely a certainty.

Besides, it would be interesting to see. Maybe someone’s desperate and not having enough stamina or life, and just says “fuck it, I’m taking the shot”, and ends up fairing against someone who can defend themselves.

[granite gate]

i just think defense mechanics in general lead to more interesting fights

sure some dinos will be ambushers, but making most dinos ambushers is not going to create interesting gameplay

[granite gate]

to expand: leg short ❌

[alpine plover]

@fading pagoda

its physically impossible, like that is legitimately as fast hypsi can be

also thats boring

hypsi shouldn’t just be budget dyro

it isnt meant to run, its meant to jump

[granite gate]

based on the jumps n stuff, hypsi will most likely have its primary defense be agility

not pure speed

[fading pagoda]

if its meant to jump than its jump should be buffed to not do half height when movin

[granite gate]

is hypsi shit rn? yeah, but doesnt mean it needs to move niches

[fading pagoda]

i know its going to be able to climb later in this games life but like

[granite gate]

it just needs its current mechanics fixed

[alpine plover]

yea agreed

[grave veldt]

hypsi is meat to jump to high places and spit thats what i always thought personally

although currently it doesnt do either of those well at all

[tall plaza]

It shouldn’t have that charge up mechanic honestly. It should just have the usual jump, where if you hold you go higher at the expense of stamina (and seriously lower its stamina consume for its jump)

[tall plaza]

Yea

Regarding hypsi, this is what I thought of it:

#balance-feedback message

Totally not self promoting my own suggestions lol

[grave veldt]

good suggestion tho

[alpine plover]

Can’t tell if that was the real pesky, but rip his input got blasted with “No”’s lol

[silent comet]

me explaining why carno and deinos should be nerfed

[alpine plover]

Idk I agree, having the ability to fight back would make it a bit more interesting than simply dying. It would make the fight more of a fight. But idk I don't play deino enough to even know how the lunge mechanic works

[grave veldt]

Das the real pesky

[hollow canyon]

In general atm Deino is a bit too good. I'm not necessarily in favour of nerfing it but perhaps buffing other animals so that they can compete would be nice. As it is it's the animal that has the best bleed resistance, the best bleed healing, amazing health regeneration, good damage output, best alt bite in the game, special ability that allows it to oneshot most of the roster without its opponent being able to fight back, really easy growth(goddamn thing takes less effort to grow than a Carnotaurus)due to having access to easy source of food and an extremely long hunger drain that allows it to stay low for a very long time.

It does have some downsides too like a snail's pace stamina regeneration or being tied to water for the most part coupled with dehydrating at a fast pace but overall the positives completely outshine the negatives for this animal.

[old hull]

nerfing deino (except for the foward alt biting) is not needed , it was just put in too early and has no competition

the rest of the roster atm is just not meant to kill them , stego shouldnt even be fighting them and the rest are all full land dinos that would like to avoid going to water as long as possible

now if the sucko was kept in the roadmap , this wouldnt be a problem

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Sucho would be handling Deino well at all

a fully grown Sucho is still a significantly smaller animal even if you are generous and put it at 5t. It has neither the mobility, agility nor power needed to take a Deinosuchus on in a fight.

[golden coral]

If deino does as well as it does vs stego, I don't see how sucho would do any better vs a deino

[old hull]

sure but its a videogame , we can just give it the stats to be able to do it

[hollow canyon]

why would we give those stats to a Sucho though?

[old hull]

can always tweak the sucho after stuff like spino comes in after , much like how stego was beefed up with update 3

[hollow canyon]

Was Stego beefed up with update 3?

I think it was only nerfed with update 3 and afterwards

Its stamina usage went from negligible to really high

[old hull]

well its weight was , dont think the stats like health and damage were changed , stam drain is much worse tho

[hollow canyon]

yea its weight was changed to reflect what a real Stego's weight would've been

that's what has been done to all the animals

[old hull]

but even if sucho cant fight a deino 1 on 1 , just having another semi aquatic around would make them harder to grow

could use bary for the same purpose too

[hollow canyon]

I mean - to a certain extent probably yea

it's at least an animal that could threaten it in the water perhaps

[old hull]

yeah exactly

[hollow canyon]

then again I think it's meant to be more so a wader rather than a swimmer

[old hull]

possibly , altho i imagine it will be able to swim

[silent comet]

Sheesh

[alpine plover]

@tawny trench

Use alt bite, its omni directional

[grave veldt]

i like that suggestion a lot

it makes brawlers feel like brawlers

[spare badger]

i agree

[grave veldt]

it would make them stand out as a fighting class if that makes sense

especially cera

[spare badger]

yup. if the whole idea behind a playable is that it should fight a lot, it shouldnt be punished as hard for it

[grave veldt]

actually i dislike locked hp being tied to heal faster when u rest

it promotes afk

i wish there was something else to heal locked hp faster rather then just sitting on ur ass lol

[spare badger]

hopefully a type of food will make it heal faster when diets are a thing

they could be more rare

[grave veldt]

yea herbis and even carnis could get something to eat or drink or even lick to help locked hp

would be cool

[spare badger]

that would only work for herbis tho

carnis imo should be punished a little bit more for being careless while hunting

they should just have to rest

[grave veldt]

well logically that makes sense but the issue is carnis have to hunt and put them selves in danger all the time

so idk if that would work out

[spare badger]

it could make scavengers (like cerato) better and stealing kills

so it should stay as it is for carnivores, but a type of fruit or smth for herbis i think

[grave veldt]

they had salt rock models for healing u when u vomited after overeating

i think maybe that could tie in with locked hp maybe

[spare badger]

maybe

[grave veldt]

just something else so u would need to go do something and then sit for some time to heal

instead of just sitting for a long time

[spare badger]

ye

[old crag]

@tawny trench yeah you can basically use alt bite to bite directly behind you. Alt bite is also faster and does more damage.

@versed rune I think the struggle is auto. The prey loses stam because its struggling and the Deino loses stam because its being resisted. I also think thats going to be something prevalent in The Isle, insta kill/demobilize. If you are the bigger preadator and you get the ambush on your smaller prey. They just dont have a chance.

@alpine plover I think the pounce is meant to be deadly against same size or smaller prey. If you pounce something same size or smaller it should be a death sentence imo. Unfortunately that would include other utahs.

@dusty fable the smaller deino is faster.... on land. If you are smaller and see a bigger deino your only hope is to go to land. OR stay in the swamps so you are not on a linear track.

Should get better when more water sources are added, I would think. Also river foliage should make it easier to hide/avoid the bigger gators.

[hollow canyon]

@old cragAs for your comments about Deinosuchus. I can assure you that Alt bite doesn't do more damage than the normal bite. It is however indeed faster than the normal bite(I even use it to just turn around because its faster than normal turning). As for the small Deino moving on land to escape a larger Deino - yea that's the best bet to get away from one however to my knowledge large Deino has more stamina so you will be in a stick spot even on land from what I know.

[pale surge]

Why would something extremely large and heavy with short legs have more stamina than something smaller and more agile?

[hollow canyon]

Idk. I'm not saying that it makes sense for da big croc to have more stamina. I'm just saying that it does have more stamina right now.

[lean shoal]

small deinos should have more stamina than big ones so they have a chance to run.

[old crag]

Gotcha, I guess darting on land makes you a less convenient prey at the very least. It’s worked for me in most cases so far. I have started sticking to the swamps as a general rule. More enjoyable.

[hollow canyon]

It worked definitely far better than staying in the water yea.

I'm just saying that if a big Deino gets onto you when you get on land you most likely won't be getting out. In general however growing on land>>>growing in the water as a Deino. Even if it may seem paradoxical.

[lean shoal]

so currently, baby stego is too strong adult stego gets bodied by utahs and large carno packs. juvie deinos are free food for adults. adult deinos are insane against everything except stego.

[grave veldt]

deino alt bite needs to take stam

utah alt bite takes stam why not deinos

also for deinos problem

i say keep the water values the same as it is

but decrease the sprint % decrease over time

this way smaller crocs can escape the bigger bois via land

w/o being usian bolt

[hollow canyon]

Adult Deinos aren't too bad against Stegos either

Also - Utah's alt bite does use stam but it actually deals more damage as well

Deino's alt bite deals the same damage as normal bite

Having said that I think it should use up some stamina and imo it should have a slower attack rate than the normal bite(the attack speed of the two should be reversed)

[grave veldt]

^

thats actually pretty good honestly

theres literally no reason to use bite if alt bite is faster and just better

[hollow canyon]

Yea, pretty much. This change would give some purpose to the alt bite and it would nerf Deino in the Stego match up.

[grave veldt]

actually slowing down alt bite might make it much better for stego

[hollow canyon]

As you'd have to use stamina and have a slower attack rate if you want to bite it through its body

As in - if you want to headshot it through its body

[grave veldt]

if alt bite was slower u cant spam it so stegos would be much better off

[hollow canyon]

Deino would still do well as long as it gets to Stegos head

[grave veldt]

although its mainly collision that does that

[hollow canyon]

But that would require Stego to actually face the Deino with its tiny head

[grave veldt]

it'll drink water so u can go for it then

[hollow canyon]

Exactly, the match up would be situationally good for Deino but most of the time it would favour Stego

[grave veldt]

^

[hollow canyon]

I see this solution as a win-win really, solves a lot of the issues

[grave veldt]

this way deinos can still take down stego if their smart

but stego can slap it to death if it isnt careful

seems like a win win

[hollow canyon]

Tbh it would probably make it so that Deino doesn't even need the stamina cost on the alt bite but I would personally still slap some stam cost on it so that it can get killed by terrestrial animals in a prolonged fight

[grave veldt]

that would be nice

[hollow canyon]

I still think that stam cost shouldn't be too high

[grave veldt]

alt bite is way too good rn for deino

[hollow canyon]

Something like ~3% I think

[grave veldt]

honestly slower alt bite sounds even better then stam cost

although getting both would be great

[hollow canyon]

I'd favour slower alt bite and faster normal bite over the stam cost. As in that would be the better change.

[grave veldt]

^

[hollow canyon]

Stam cost doesn't reall change Stego vs Deino match up - Deino will still either maul it and regen that stamina or just die while trying.

It does affect its match ups against smaller animals on land but that's it pretty much

[grave veldt]

yea due to collision deino would still bite its head thru its ass so

i hope deino and just everything in general gets better collision

[hollow canyon]

I think the current one was meant to be a placeholder but the devs have more important things to work on right now so they're very likely postponing any changes to collision for now

[grave veldt]

understandable although collision can literally change match-ups so i hope it gets revisited soon

[sinful cove]

deinos aren't underpowered rn lmao

[alpine plover]

@jaunty haven

deino isnt weak atm

just gotta play it good

[golden coral]

People just need to put the altbite as their main attack :p

[alpine plover]

bad deinos get fucked by stegos, but even below average ones can beat stegos

wait how do you even die to a stego in water?

[lament cloak]

spam alt bite and hit the head and deino kills everything on LAND, dont even get me started on how it goes in the water

[alpine plover]

^

it honestly needs a nerf

Alt bite should consume 8% stam

And shouldn’t unstun deino

otherwise…… it seems fine

[golden coral]

I wonder if you can use the lunge from the water to move up the stegos body efficiently, if it tries the whole "put tail into water" thing..

[lament cloak]

alt bite should be as slow as regular bite since there is no reason to use the regular one

[burnt citrus]

So question when it comes to this: What would people suggest to solve Carnos going swim-hunting in a pond for small Dienos with no one big enough to stop them? This is honestly some of the dumbest stuff I've seen carnos do.

And yet it works.

[dusky surge]

the deinos can swim downwards, can't they?

[burnt citrus]

They still got caught when they were down.

[lament cloak]

that pond is very shallow. just enough so that adult deinos can't be seen if they are at the very bottom

[burnt citrus]

I watched them get caught while under and dragged out, ponds empty now.

[hollow canyon]

That's on the Deinos then. I don't see this as an issue at all if some animal catches them in that pond.

[burnt citrus]

I really think its silly to see a non-aquatic dino going pond/river hunting for aquatic things. Stuff on the river bank sure, but going skinny dipping for dinner when you're not known or built for it? Really dumb looking.

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it's a problem if the aquatic things get themselves stuck in an area they can't get away from. My deino has never been hunted by a Carno in the water, imo it's entirely Deinos' fault for sticking in an area where they can get killed off with no way of escaping.

[tight pecan]

It's just like beach combing. Wolves, coyotes, bears, and many birds aren't aquatic but they will go down to the shallows (especially at low tide) and scoop up tons of seafood that's stuck in shallows.

Not to mention people who do the same.

[grave veldt]

this isnt a deino issue

u shouldnt be in a small pool u cant get out of without putting urself in danger

thats on u and also the environment

[sturdy mirage]

I did that once as a carno because I was starving. I died to an adult Deino that ambushed me, he jumped into the water from the cliff behind the rock. I just hadn't had enough time to get out of the water there, so it still comes with a risk.

Yet I get where you are coming from but since basically every Dinosaur in this game can and probably will be able to swim, you can't really change that juvis being the target in areas like these.

[silent harness]

is the stego going to be getting a tail swing or is it forever locked to its stab? if it did like 15 swings i could get why it gets winded

[golden coral]

We don't know. Maybe it will get something in the future, but for now I think we're stuck with what we got.

[silent harness]

I kinda figured that was the most likely answer just asking in case I missed a note or something

[novel tulip]

Tigers and jaguars do this

Obviously it looks funny because its a game with 3d models translating and animating everywhere to create the illusion of movement, but its a completely natural hunting strategy

The carnos still have a lot of risk because they can't see exactly what's in the water

In that case they were able to find it out, but no ones just going to jump in and hunt without knowing the situation unless they're suicidal

[granite gate]

hunting juvie deinos is absolutely not without risk. keep in mind most carnivores are opportunists

[lament cloak]

you should probably delete this before a admin/mod smites you. rule 5

[novel tulip]

Oh I'm not supposed to link videos?

Oops

[lament cloak]

no, your just not supposed to put animals in distress

[novel tulip]

Oh

Makes sense

[dense kelp]

Yo can U please make the carnos grown up time like 160 to 200 minutes they're too disposable atm ;)

[hollow canyon]

It's 150m atm so you're not very far off with that suggestion. Not that they need a longer growth time for what they have to offer atm.

[inland ore]

Who knows how much health Ptera has?

[grave veldt]

ptera hp is either 150 or 200

[cedar shore]

Hope the upcoming patch has got some balance changes in it

[grave veldt]

yes pls holy shit lol

alt bite consuming stam when

they rly need to make deinos collision better

makes no sense how a deino can bite a stego head thru its ass

just becuz ur glitching thru the whole body

[wheat field]

Bro im either dyslexic or fucking blind I thought that shit said Para

[alpine plover]

@cedar shore

Ive been hunted by two utahs before as carno, just hunt better.

If you cant hunt a carno with 4 utahs….. well its not a carno/utah issue, its a skill issue

Pounce can easily overwhelm carno

it has garbo stamina now and once its stam is out, the utahs can control the fight

and guess what bleed does? Reduce stamina regeneration

Guess what pounce does a lot of? Bleed

[hollow canyon]

4 good Utahs can definitely take on a Carno

[alpine plover]

It should be extremely easy

Unless carno gets lucky it has no real escape option

[hollow canyon]

Idk if it should be extremely easy, they can get themselves killed if they mess up pouncing

[alpine plover]

since the utahs can just stay on it, and since carno cant turn well in forest it can just slink away

Utah does a surprising amount of damage

[lament cloak]

first of all, a few good utahs and any carno is in big trouble, second of all carno is supposed to be built to hunt things like utah.

[hollow canyon]

From what I've noticed while playing Carno against Utahs most Utahs will absolutely let you disengage at will and won't try to track you down which can allow you to even wipe entire packs. That's more so down to Utahs' incompetence though.

[alpine plover]

people dont realize that, or just dont want utah to have any predators

[alpine plover]

I was messing with 2 good utahs before, lost my carno

sure I could have played better, but its possible

[hollow canyon]

Even back during update 2 I ran away the moment I realised I was up against 2 Utahs that knew what they were doing

[lament cloak]

honestly carno could use an agility buff, it is ridiculously easy to loose it in all of the perfectly spaced out bushes of the plains. you can also just jump a river with a few deinos in it and you will be good

[alpine plover]

Im genuinely not sure how someone can lose to a single carno with at least 4 utahs

[hollow canyon]

I could easily kill an entire pack of bad Utahs but the moment I encountered 2 good ones I had to run for my life

I'd hold on with any buffs to Carno for now

[alpine plover]

^, once you get low on stamina you’re basically just hoping the utahs will leave you alone

[hollow canyon]

but later on it might need some if it's supposed to be hunting small game that's very agile

[vagrant mural]

Most Utah packs are insanely incompetent

Carno is only able to go on killing sprees because they let them control the fight and run at them head on, and instantly die because of it, utahs tend to hole up, and carno’s decent stam regen and trot can trap them to an extent

[alpine plover]

yep, all it takes to overwhelm a decent carno is 3 aggressive utahs

Most utah players are just awful at the game, just insanely bad.

its the main reason I just ignore balance ideas when it comes to utah most complaints are due to player skill

people keep saying utah should be a high skill dino but when it takes skill to play they instantly complain

A utah pack has no excuse getting bodied by a single carno they can easily kill AND run away

Admittedly i’m not the greatest carno and was playing recklessly, but two competent utahs were able to kill me, all they had to do was keep tracking me and they can do it easily with they’re godlike stamina/speed combination

It was pretty fair, since I did get away the first time, then died when I went back in to snatch a utah juvie, all they did was play aggressive and use numbers to their advantage utahs do a good amount of damage to carno to, can easily overwhlem someone who wasn’t paying close attention to their HP

If carno gets nerfed its going to be unplayable people just hate having to use common sense to play a video game

I was juking pre-turn nerf carno the first week I played evrima its always been easy

I remember when I had no experience to evrimas movement system and I was able to juke two carnos as a sub utah I simply used my jump and turn radius to get away

Then my utah pack died to those same carnos because they didnt listen to me when I told them we had to run utah players are just unreliable sources when it comes to game balance

[sonic flame]

That is a lot of hypsi shrugs

[alpine plover]

[cedar shore]

Oh trust me, you cant hunt down a good carno from just 2 utahs. I have tested this time and time again and its just not possible. If 2 full utahs both pounce and the carno simply bucks he can walk the bleed off like its nothing.

Many people forget that buck is a thing and just get tons of bleed

I got like 400 hours on evrima and i 1v4d stegos as utah once. dont say its a matter of skill when it comes to me, its not

[serene spoke]

or maybe theres like dsync rubber band and lag. just maybe. oh and i forgot to add ur one of those people who think they are good but play carno

[sonic flame]

What does playing carno have to do with someone's skill?

[serene spoke]

u dont need skill to play carno

a 5yr could kill me, all he has to know are controls :p

[vagrant mural]

someone can still be skilled and play carno

[serene spoke]

yeah but it doesnt take skill to play it

[sonic flame]

That uh, that sounds more like an issue with your lack of ability to defend from a Carno

[serene spoke]

yes u can have skill and play carno

[vagrant mural]

no dino really takes skill to play

if you think about it hard enough

[sonic flame]

As a Teno I can pretty easily take 2 Carnos and live more often than not

[cedar shore]

I woule like to hear your strategy for hunting carnos @alpine plover , because simply pouncing it and bleeding it out wont work on ant competent carno, regardeless on how good the utahs are.

[sonic flame]

most Tenos can't even 1v4 a single Carno tho from my experience

[serene spoke]

we are talking about utah -_- read my msg properly

[sonic flame]

I know, I'm just saying, Carno can be harder or easier to take depending on your own ability to fend them off

[serene spoke]

1v1 carnos as teno is easy

[golden coral]

You can't really say it doesn't take skill to play carno, it most certainly does take some skill. As for two utahs vs a carno, maybe not, but 3, or 4?

[serene spoke]

the only way u die as teno, is if the carno gets a charge on u

[cedar shore]

there is skill involved in ant dino really,

[serene spoke]

no ur taking 2 classes

utah is different from teno

we are talking about utah

[sonic flame]

I was in a pack of 2 Utah adults with 3 babies, and we were able to take out a Carno, despite the fact that it attempted to buck

[vagrant mural]

teno is knowing how attacks work and that's it, utah is run and jump, scavenge and occasionally kill shit, dryo is w+m1, ptera is spectator mode, stego is sit in a bush, and deino is sit still for 5 years and occasionally grab something

[sonic flame]

With utah you just run up and bite them when they attempt to buck, plus you exhaust them first by making them run

[serene spoke]

no no

just stop

[vagrant mural]

explain to me how it takes skill to play any of these dinos over carno

when it boils down to knowing how wasd, mouse, alt, and the game works

[serene spoke]

there is a skill gap. it is much harder to play utah without dying compared to carno

[sonic flame]

I mean Teno is also a knowledge of when to attack and when to hang back, going full offense will get you killed

[cedar shore]

yeah

All dinos in the isle requires skill and there is nearly allways a skill gap that might be hard to see, but its there

[sonic flame]

Utah is much smaller, so it can make fewer mistakes true, but at the same time Utah I find has an easier time overall, less food needed and with even a single team mate you can take most animals, save for Stego and Deino

[vagrant mural]

utah is quite easy, just run around, grab what you can, the only thing that can run you down and actually kill you is carno, and at that point just use a, d, space, and terrain

(and teno but that's another beast entirely)

[serene spoke]

deino no, stego yes

if u kill a deino its just bad

it can swim into the water if its hurt

[cedar shore]

People say juking carno is easy, but good luck on that on someone that is able to controll its movement well, aka not sliding everywhere.

[sonic flame]

I mean I am still firmly in the camp that Stego can mess up even a full pack of Utahs, but past like, 3 and it becomes really difficult

[vagrant mural]

it's still fairly easy

[cedar shore]

You must have not gone up against someone very good

[serene spoke]

if there is no lag no bs happening. i guarantee i will 1v1 a steg and kill it

[sonic flame]

Kinda sounds like the stego sucks then, you can tank a decent amount of hits from the Utah, and meanwhile the Utah is allowed to make 1 mistake if its lucky

[serene spoke]

u cant juke carnos rn. if a carno is up ur ass and u turn to the left or right rubber band or dsync will get ya

[vagrant mural]

the only carnos I've seen that are really good are some people I occasionally play with, and even then its still at least mildly difficult to follow something

[vagrant mural]

game issue more than a balance issue

[serene spoke]

yeah then why are u talking to me. read my msg

[vagrant mural]

because this is about balance, in balance feedback discussion

[serene spoke]

and im talking about game state and replying to someone else, not u

so why do u need to feel to talk to me

[vagrant mural]

idk

maybe because you replied to me

[serene spoke]

so ur name is - thatonediodude

[vagrant mural]

yeah basically

[alpine plover]

endurance hunt it

Im pretty tired so I wont explain for long, but its extremely easy

[alpine plover]

notice how carno got a stamina nerf

[cedar shore]

Cant endurance hunt it when pounce eats all of your stam

[serene spoke]

yk to this day u guys say its easy to hunt it but everytime i ask for a video no one has one. so show me a video

[alpine plover]

and notice how pounce does amazing bleed

now what does bleed do?

Lower stam/HP regen

[cedar shore]

ik and i think its fine in that eay. Utah in general is very good but the carno matchup sucks

[alpine plover]

and what does having lots of bleed mean?

[serene spoke]

if a good carno player bucks u cant kill it

it drains all ur stam

[alpine plover]

You wont be getting much stam back

[serene spoke]

then it runs u down

[alpine plover]

then you’re utah bro attacks him while hes bucking

[serene spoke]

then it will just wallow when its done

[vagrant mural]

carno should decimate utah 1 on 1 but its kind of insane what it gets away with tbh

[alpine plover]

you have to STAND STILL to buck

[alpine plover]

utah is 55 kmh with good stamina

[cedar shore]

You rarely recover stam mid fight regardeless, unless the carno player is really bad and pays 0 attention to stam it wont do much

[alpine plover]

just track it

[cedar shore]

With like no stam?

[alpine plover]

If you keep the pressure up and the carno isnt careful you can get it

[cedar shore]

You do realize pounce eats up all your stam right?

[alpine plover]

then jump off when you’re losing too much stamina

[cedar shore]

then you wont have nearly enough bleed on it to kill it or lower its blood pool

[serene spoke]

they should just nerf bucking, its to op rn and same with utah dismount. it punishes utah for landing a pounce, thats the problem rn

[cedar shore]

thats the problem..

[alpine plover]

also utah doesn’t even HAVE and isnt MEANT to hunt carno in duos, so this doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things

[alpine plover]

why nerf the thing meant to counter pounce?

Just jump off

boom, you keep your stamina

[cedar shore]

bro, you must have never played utah i swear

[serene spoke]

it doesnt matter when u jump off, u will always lose 30% stam or more

yeah

[alpine plover]

not true

[cedar shore]

Jumping off a pounce is so so punishing for 0 reason

[vagrant mural]

bucking is fine, dismount definitely needs fixing tho

[cedar shore]

yeah dismounting is ass

[alpine plover]

I agree that should be fixed

otherwise its fine

[cedar shore]

might be tbh

[alpine plover]

utahs issues are all caused by low player skill

[cedar shore]

Its easy to hit pounces but what nearly allways kills me is the 10m long tail hitbox and the fact that i get hit when jumping off

[alpine plover]

who said that wasn’t a issue

[serene spoke]

idk they should just make the user use more stam to buck, each utah they buck cost 7% stam

for 100% stam

[alpine plover]

nah

[cedar shore]

mabye

[vagrant mural]

I'd rather they just fix dismounting first and then see how that impacts utah from that point

[alpine plover]

Im not sure how that would work in practice, but it sounds awful

[alpine plover]

agreed

fix the actual issue, then see how it works

[golden coral]

@serene spokeBucking should be the best, most efficient method to punish a utah pounce. Otherwise we get treehugging/rockhugging again, and that's stupid. Besides, it already costs you more to buck with more utahs on you, and with the added bleed, it will add up.

And yes, fix dismount issue, then we'll see how it works out.

[alpine plover]

^

[cedar shore]

yeah they should be able to do a kickback for some stam. It would add much more skill to pouncing since you dont allways need to do a kickback

[serene spoke]

someone mentioned the utah will have a option to push off the target and use more stam as a fix, they suggested

[vagrant mural]

that is also something I 100% agree with

[cedar shore]

think that was me lol

[serene spoke]

lol

i was typing that right as u did it

[alpine plover]

utah doesn’t need a buff from what ive seen, people should stop phrasing it like that

it seems like they just want it to be more polished

[serene spoke]

well we found our corporate

[serene spoke]

yeah id say thats it

[cedar shore]

Only pounce, other than that utah is really strong in the right hands

[serene spoke]

game state and dismount needs to be fixed for utah to be viable

[cedar shore]

People say alt bite is useless but its soooo good

[alpine plover]

pounce is super clunkly on both ends

[serene spoke]

otherwise rn its just better damage wins most of the time

[vagrant mural]

so utah just needs a dismounting fixed, agreed? (and desync/rubberbanding to be fixed but that goes for everything)

[serene spoke]

i only use alt bite if i need the damage

[alpine plover]

doesn’t pounce reset the bucking animation each time a new utah jumps on? That needs to be fixed ASAP

[serene spoke]

the dsync/rubber banding is more punishing for utah tho bc a hit is fatal, but yes it impacts everything just utah more

[cedar shore]

If you are for example hunting a baby dino beeing protected by its partents, alt biting is so dam good

[alpine plover]

its super unpolished and untested

[cedar shore]

ik

[serene spoke]

yup

[alpine plover]

recent patch doesn’t feel like it was qa tested at all

[vagrant mural]

ptera probably gets punished more for desync/rubberbanding, but I see your point

[cedar shore]

i never see people use it though..

[cedar shore]

Pounce rework was probably not balance tested lmao

Its kinda busted against slower herbis..

[alpine plover]

pounce reseting the bucking animation is makes it way too strong

[serene spoke]

yeah but like if i die to dsync/rubberbanding as pt i wouldnt mind as much bc its so short of a grow time

[vagrant mural]

fair

[cedar shore]

1 hr feels long now that nearly all dinos got a -15 min grow bufff

[serene spoke]

i would still be mad bc its not my fault but thats like a couple youtube videos and im back to adult

and u dont really play pt for fighting, u play it for the experience of flying.

[alpine plover]

Utah needa a general nerf in the future for sure

[serene spoke]

how so

[alpine plover]

if its seriously going to be able to climb, it needs one

[vagrant mural]

depends on how it affects the rest of the roster but yeah

[alpine plover]

a nerf to its stats

[cedar shore]

which?

[serene spoke]

like wha

[alpine plover]

just in general

minus speed and stamina of course

[vagrant mural]

honestly utah seems like the most balanced dino besides the obvious dismount problem to me currently

[cedar shore]

not health at least

[alpine plover]

definitely health

If utah is going to be able to climb, it doesn’t need to also have 1000 hp

that’s ridiculous

[cedar shore]

one good hit carno bite allready screws it over

A tail slam and you are good as dead

[serene spoke]

i would say maybe less damage on normal bite, so it would encourage more use of alt bite if u need more raw damage

[alpine plover]

carnos cant even hit utahs now with climbing it will be able to escape even better

[serene spoke]

doesnt it have 500

[cedar shore]

yeah probs

[alpine plover]

it has 1000

[dawn falcon]

I don’t think that’s the case

[alpine plover]

HP isnt based on weight

[serene spoke]

the weight says 500 ig

[cedar shore]

Its gona be a while untill that comes though, mabye with herra

[dawn falcon]

It’s weight relatively reflects its stats, which is what’s been said

[serene spoke]

oh realyl

[vagrant mural]

climbing is its own problem that can be solved by simply restriciting health and stam regen while in a tree

[alpine plover]

if utah had 500 Hp, deino would one shot it.

[dawn falcon]

Carno deals what, 350?

That’s 700

Yet carno still 2 shots a Utah

[alpine plover]

it 4 or 3 shots it

[dawn falcon]

So yes I do think it’s HP is 500

[vagrant mural]

no carno at full 2 shots

[dawn falcon]

Not from body shots

[cedar shore]

its not 700...

[alpine plover]

Deino deals 500 and it doesn’t one shot utah

[stark knoll]

to the head, yes

wait

no not even to the head

[cedar shore]

weight has no impact on damage in evrima

[stark knoll]

i think thats still 3

[dawn falcon]

Sorry to the body, it 2 shots Utah.

[stark knoll]

nope

[cedar shore]

its 2..

[dawn falcon]

Atleast that’s what I’ve seen when I’ve attacked Utah’s

[alpine plover]

thats just not true

[cedar shore]

3-4 body shots

[stark knoll]

idk about headshots but its definitely more than 2 to the body

[serene spoke]

i get 2 shot by carno

[dawn falcon]

Hm

It feels like 2

[serene spoke]

it depends where u get hit

[alpine plover]

Its definitely around a 4 shot

[serene spoke]

but i think 2 shots to the head and body and ur ded

[cedar shore]

its prob 2 but landing a head bite on a utah isnt easy lol

[vagrant mural]

typically utah is dead to rights by 2, either acutally by 2 bites or because its finna die

[serene spoke]

but for tail i think 4

[alpine plover]

To the body, its 100 % a 4 shot

[alpine plover]

not true either

[dawn falcon]

I don’t think it’s a 4 shot

[serene spoke]

also does alt bite do more damage for carno?

[alpine plover]

tail hits take heavily reduced damage

[cedar shore]

it reeealy depends on where it hits

[dawn falcon]

I meant mainly the body

[cedar shore]

its 3-4 in 101% sure when it comes to only body shots

[alpine plover]

if we take utahs confirmed Hp of 1000 and subtract it by 350 (carnos biteforce) it dies in 4 shots

[dawn falcon]

Since that’s what you’ll on average hit

[serene spoke]

ive been 2 shot as utah from carno

[vagrant mural]

I could ask someone to help me do some testing tomorrow, but generally speaking, a utah is 2 shot most of the time

[golden coral]

Headshot would be twoshot yes?

But not bodyshots

[cedar shore]

thing is.. body shots can do more than 350

[alpine plover]

must be lag

[serene spoke]

3 is probs body

[dawn falcon]

Then I have no idea

[golden coral]

What?

[dawn falcon]

It felt like a 2 shot

[alpine plover]

?

You must mean neck shots

[serene spoke]

ive been 2 shot like 7 times by carno

at full health

[alpine plover]

I doubt that

math doesn’t add up

[vagrant mural]

maybe carno's hitbox is so big and its right over utah that it just prioritizes the head hitbox

[golden coral]

If they were headshots, then yes.

[alpine plover]

if utah takes PERFECTLY 2 hits from 500 N biteforce deino, it has 1000 Hp.

[cedar shore]

ehh mabye, hard to tell. But a carno might land a bite on multiple body locations and do increased dmg from that

[golden coral]

And yes, that is a possibility with hitboxes so

[alpine plover]

true

[golden coral]

But deino has been said to do 75% on a utah on headshot

[cedar shore]

locational damage is weird

[alpine plover]

and Im pretty sure deinos biteforce is 750 on a headshot

[golden coral]

Yeah, that sounds about right

[alpine plover]

so it makes sense

utah definitely needs a HP nerf when they let it climb

750 would be good

climbing rats that are also tanky would make utah OP

[vagrant mural]

utahs arent really tanky

[dawn falcon]

I mean it’s that or buff the damage

For others

[alpine plover]

1000 hp is tanky for their abilities

[dawn falcon]

Nerf Utah’s hp or buff the damage doe the other creatures

Deino could certainly use a slight buff to one shot Utah

Atleast by the head

[alpine plover]

IF utah gets climbing, nerf its HP, if it doesn’t, im not sure.

[alpine plover]

no that would ruin balance

[dawn falcon]

Not really

[vagrant mural]

deino I believe is in a nerfed state due to it being in a werid ecosystem

[alpine plover]

1000 damage to the head on everything would be ridiculous

[vagrant mural]

deino being able to 1 shot utah makes sense

[alpine plover]

deino is meant to be weak on land

[dawn falcon]

But weak to a Utah?

[vagrant mural]

it be trolling hours

[golden coral]

You know, I think we should focus on one thing to balance/fix at a time. It is my experience that changing more than one thing tends to overdo it, for good or ill.

[dawn falcon]

You serious?

[alpine plover]

it does but the only way for it to work is a utah hp nerf

[alpine plover]

did I say that?

I said a deino damage buffs effects more things then utah

[vagrant mural]

or just buff deino when bigger threats come along

[dawn falcon]

That’s what you’re implying by saying weak on land

[golden coral]

Deino is very fine where it's at from what I know

It's doing surprisingly well even on land against most things

[alpine plover]

not really

[dawn falcon]

I still think it should atleast one shot a Utah by the head

[dawn falcon]

So then what are you implying

[golden coral]

Maybe it should, but it sure as heck doesn't need to, so I'd say it's okay for now.

[alpine plover]

that buffing deinos damage effects more things then its match up against utah

[dawn falcon]

Of course

But it’s not catastrophic

[alpine plover]

and those effects are bad

[dawn falcon]

It’s not going to destroy the balance like you claim

[alpine plover]

2 shotting carnos is ridiculous

4 shoting stegos is also dumb

[dawn falcon]

I never said 2 shotting lmao

Nor did I say that

[vagrant mural]

imagine being a apex that could crush utah like a trash compactor and not being able to 1 shot it, its current damage is fine for the current roster, but that shit needs to be buffed once mids, psuedo apexes, and other apexes start getting added more commonl

[dawn falcon]

But do go on

[alpine plover]

Do you not understand what buffing a animals damage does

it makes it deal more damage

to everything

[dawn falcon]

Do you not understand the simplest thing known only as common sense? I literally haven’t mentioned the bite force increase

[alpine plover]

unless this is specifically only going to effect utah, its a bad change

[vagrant mural]

100% trollin hours doe

[sinful cove]

Just nerf utah's hp, it doesnt need twice its weight in health anyway, then deino can obliterate it

[dawn falcon]

It’s specifically for Utah’s no?

[alpine plover]

Thats how I took it

[dawn falcon]

Exactly

So why did you bring up carno and stego

When I mentioned only Utah

[alpine plover]

Because buffing deinos damage effects it in general, not just against utah

[dawn falcon]

and

[alpine plover]

you’re saying that you didnt want that

when you…. said you did

[dawn falcon]

Are you really not taking into account the fact that one shotting Utah doesn’t mean it’s going to badly balance the ecosystem

Like

[alpine plover]

I just explained how

[vagrant mural]

I really don't understand how deino damage at 1k is a neccesarily bad thing, its a big croc,it should deal a lot of damage

[dawn falcon]

Which really didn’t say much

[alpine plover]

2 shotting carno, the only thing that can somewhat take on deino in packs makes it too strong on land

[vagrant mural]

especially if stego is getting a similar buff once stuff that should actually threaten it are added

[alpine plover]

its bad for how deino is meant to be balanced

1k damage is too strong

it isnt rex

[dawn falcon]

I mean 1K damage atleast when other big carnis get added.
Deino should atleast have a 600N maybe 700N. Just enough to cripple Utah

[vagrant mural]

this ^

[alpine plover]

700 is too much

[dawn falcon]

Not really

[alpine plover]

not sure about 600

[dawn falcon]

Take into account it’s a “fat croc”

A massive one

[alpine plover]

700 would 2 shot carno to the head

[alpine plover]

its a game

[dawn falcon]

So

[alpine plover]

deino isnt balanced like that

[vagrant mural]

carno is supposed to be a fast relatively light animal

[alpine plover]

its balanced around being weak on land

[dawn falcon]

Who are you to judge what Deino is balanced like LoL

[alpine plover]

Im going off of what the developers of the game have stated

[dawn falcon]

Why are you complaining about it 2 shotting carno. Why is carno going after a Deino

[alpine plover]

You know, the game you’re playing

[vagrant mural]

deino is balanced by being mobile in the water and having powerful drowning tool and bite, but not having the mobility to keep it up on lad

[alpine plover]

its the only carnivore able to threaten deino in packs

[vagrant mural]

other things will exist

carno should not counter deino

[alpine plover]

its balanced around being weak on land

[vagrant mural]

ever

[alpine plover]

do they exist now?

Is allo playable?

Acro?

rex?

[vagrant mural]

no, which is why I say it should be buffed when other stuff is added

[dawn falcon]

Stego is a thing

No?

[alpine plover]

well then say that I agree

[vagrant mural]

I did

and you ignored it

multiple times

[alpine plover]

stego is at best a 50/50 against deino

[dawn falcon]

Stego should be the only thing that can counter Deino until other big carnis arrive

[alpine plover]

I didnt see it

[alpine plover]

it doesn’t

[dawn falcon]

Which

Is why Deino needs a damage increase

[alpine plover]

Deinos can stun stegosaurus then go for easy headshots

[alpine plover]

?????

How does deinos counter not even handling it well mean deino needs a buff?

[dawn falcon]

Fix stegos broken hitbox where you can hit its head through its ass

Buff deinos damage

[alpine plover]

no

stegos issue was already fixed

[dawn falcon]

Literally solves the problem of 50/50 stego vs Deino

No it wasn’t

[alpine plover]

deino doesnt need a buff

[dawn falcon]

Deinos can still do that method

[alpine plover]

Oh you mean that method?

Yeah that NEEDS to be fixed

[dawn falcon]

It really does if it can’t even cripple a small, even though it’s a apex of its waters

[alpine plover]

and deino shouldn’t stun apexes

[alpine plover]

of the water

not land

and it can one shot things from the water

[dawn falcon]

So why can’t it actually take advantage of its environment

Ambush and actually cripple something for once

[alpine plover]

it can one shot things from the water

Use rmb

[alpine plover]

fractures arent in yet

[dawn falcon]

With a lunge that’s meant for bigger game than even Utah I’m sure

[alpine plover]

its not

deinos lunge limit is 4 tons

[dawn falcon]

It can lunge and drag down a 75% grown stego

Exactly

[alpine plover]

All the big dinosaurs are most likely out of that size range

[dawn falcon]

It can use the lunge for, omg omg, 1-2 maybe even 3 ton dinosaurs!!

[alpine plover]

not that big

[dawn falcon]

What

Now you’re saying it shouldn’t drag over 3 ton dinos?

[alpine plover]

big game is 4 tons and up in my opinion

3 tons is mid game

[alpine plover]

no it should

[dawn falcon]

SO

There you go

[alpine plover]

Huh

[dawn falcon]

Lunge bigger game than Utah

Cripple anything Utah’s weight with its bite

That literally solves the problem

[alpine plover]

bigger then utah isnt large game to deino

like at all

[dawn falcon]

what

[alpine plover]

para is large game

[dawn falcon]

So a stego

A carno

[alpine plover]

no

carno is mid game

[dawn falcon]

Those still fill it up a lot LOl

[alpine plover]

bigger then utah is too wide

be more specific

[dawn falcon]

I said bigger game than Utah

Use your head

It should be obvious I mean Carnos, and up.

If you can’t, that’s on you

[alpine plover]

That doesn’t tell me anything about what deino is hunting also calm down

[alpine plover]

then say that

[dawn falcon]

I’ve said enough lol
Your call if you want to interpret what I’m talking about.

[alpine plover]

You aren’t making sense

[dawn falcon]

Or

You’re failing to understand it and flamebaiting like you have been

[alpine plover]

You cant say “oh yeah, stuff bigger then utah” then say “I meant carno and up” theres a MASSIVE weight gap between utah and carno

its just common sense

[dawn falcon]

Yeah which you aren’t really using

Listen

Bigger stuff than Utah

[alpine plover]

yes

keep going

[dawn falcon]

How does this not say “Carno, stego”

That should be obvious

[alpine plover]

its too wide

[dawn falcon]

obvious

Not really

It can still drag Carno and 75% stegos

[alpine plover]

also stego isnt really a prey option to deino

[alpine plover]

you mean small stegos? AKA not large game?

[dawn falcon]

Those are still large game

[alpine plover]

They arent fully grown

[dawn falcon]

Doesn’t

Matter

[alpine plover]

it does

[dawn falcon]

It’s still considered large game

Trust me I used to have a 75% grown stego. That shits huge, of which in my opinion is still large game

[alpine plover]

sounds like this is subjective

[alpine plover]

75% stego isnt large

its pretty tiny

[dawn falcon]

Not really

I’ve even compared it to Deino

It’s still pretty large