#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 251 of 1

hollow canyon
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Deino CAN kill a Stego.

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if 7 Deinos go down to a single Stego then idk what they were doing while fighting it

granite gate
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being stupid as hell and trying to play like a fatter rex

hollow canyon
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At the same time I don't think a single Stego has to go down against even 7 Deinos if it's all taking place on land

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It can just... run away, they are too slow to catch up to it unless they have it surrounded or something

granite gate
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people just want deinos to be able to face tank everything when it can already kill the entire roster -1 in one hit (through either lunge or drowning, and yes their kits should be considered in balancing their bite force??)

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people are dinguses sometimes i swear to god, this is why no one wants to play herbi. they're all too busy sucking on deino's toes

hollow canyon
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Well not exactly - Andrei I believe did play Stego

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I personally have no interest playing herbivores either for the most part(and most definitely not Stego)

granite gate
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i know, but the ratio of stegos to deinos on most servers i've been on (flying around as a ptera)... it's like 1:10

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if even that

hollow canyon
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I haven't seen a Stego in ages either tbh

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I hear them sometimes

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but rarely

proper zephyr
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if Utah dismount and hit boxes/desync all got better simultaneously balance would be pretty good rn

dawn falcon
proper zephyr
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well yeah

dawn falcon
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oh

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After rereading

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Yeah dismount needs to be fixed to balance Utah lol

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I only read the Desync part sorry

proper zephyr
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like I said yesterday im putting faith in the hotfix they said on the roadmap to help with a lot of these issues

dawn falcon
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Hopefully it’ll cause fewer issues

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hopefully they’re listening in on a lot of balance issues

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This’ll be the balance hotfix

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Or the BalanceFix TI_Perfect

proper zephyr
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it says it’ll be fixing up a number of issues, so let’s hope so

soft girder
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The Tails and the kick shouldn't be able to stun a carno since it's bigger than it

sonic flame
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That would leave Tenonto with no counterplay

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Good luck surviving if your predator is bigger, stronger, faster, and can knock you down while you cannot counter it in any meaningful way

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Plus the Teno Carno matchup is one of the most even in the game atm, either side can win if they play it well

soft girder
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I mean I said by number for people to choose not like ohh make it not viable, no I just put numbers for to choose as a suggestion

hollow canyon
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Ok, that was a bit not clear honestly

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I understood it the same way Hypernova did

sonic flame
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I'm keeping my ❌ there simply because I do not feel that matchup should change

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It's actually so fun to play, because it's entirely down to using your attacks correctly, fuck up the aim or timing and you lose as either animal

hollow canyon
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I think it might be slightly too much in Tenontos favour atm but I honestly haven't had much of a chance to try it yet.

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There aren't that many Tenontos around and I haven't had a 1v1 against Carnos so far

soft girder
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Charge them and you already won

sonic flame
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If you land the charge lol

hollow canyon
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I don't think landing a charge is possible unless the other player goes afk

sonic flame
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Plus with the right timing you can tail slam a carno and stun it, it's really really hard tho

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It's possible, but you usually need a distraction

hollow canyon
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At least I don't think I ever got hit by the charge without having input lock/being afk

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I've hit some charges on Tenontos but they were absolutely not paying attention to their environment at the time.

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And that was back during update 2

sonic flame
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I would say in general the match up is in Carno's favor, as the Tenonto really needs to make its attacks count and it is forced to wait for the carno to run in

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if the Carno burns up its stamina tho, the Teno can come in and finish it

sinful cove
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Why is it that once an herbi is able to defend itself from its faster predators people cry for a nerf lol

sonic flame
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Because there was only like, 2 animals in Legacy that were like that

frosty heron
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People who still using Legacy as "excuse" should forgive it already honestly

soft girder
sonic flame
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I mean you only get 10-12 swings

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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you get 10

sonic flame
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and that's assuming you aren't sprinting around and kicking

hollow canyon
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but as long as you hit one of them the Carno will have to disengage

sinful cove
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Wanting teno to lose more stam on its slam is asking for a nerf

hollow canyon
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else it dies the next time it gets hit

soft girder
alpine plover
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Teno vs Carno is perfect atm

hollow canyon
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I don't think it should lose more stamina tbh

alpine plover
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Especially the rework for the alt claw and buff to the kicks

sinful cove
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Teno should have the upper hand on carno because carno controls the confrontation

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Teno doesnt need a nerf

alpine plover
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Carno will always have more speed and more base bite damage

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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I think it was perfect in update 2, I haven't had much of a chance to try it out yet but considering that Carno got nerfed rather heavily I suspect Tenonto should be winning it handily now

sinful cove
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Lmao its simple balance dude

frosty heron
sonic flame
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Yeah if you are faster, you should probably be weaker

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unless you have some special ability that lets you otherwise avoid conflict, being slower generally should mean being stronger

sinful cove
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So you want to be both faster and have an equal or higher chance in the melee

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Sounds like awful balance

frosty heron
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Teno is very capable of running away from Carnos in the forest, it's slower but more agile

hollow canyon
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Nacen, Carno does have more bite damage but Tenonto doesn't really rely on biting. Its tail slam actually outdamages Carno's bite very slightly iirc.

frosty heron
sinful cove
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People want any herbi capable of defending itself reliably nerfed into fodder

alpine plover
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True, but it doesn't have that same amount of punishment for tail slam

frosty heron
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With that logic Ava should be able to fight back an Utah

sonic flame
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I mean, Ava is heavier

alpine plover
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When you slam, you lose stam, are locked in place for a counterattack. And they could get a free headshot

frosty heron
sonic flame
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and has a pretty wicked beak, and those horns would do a number if they smacked ya in the jaw

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plus if it gets a charge I'd imagine that would stagger or knockdown the Utah

hollow canyon
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I'd say that it doesn't really matter because with how the game is right now there are hardly any tenontos anyways

sinful cove
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Yes ava should have a chance to fuck up a dumb utah that messes up

sonic flame
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And it has an armored face to reduce damage to the front

hollow canyon
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I think Tenonto is the best terrestrial animal of the current patch in terms of combat but it doesn't really matter since nobody plays it anyways.

alpine plover
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It's probably due to growth times

frosty heron
sinful cove
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The isle's utah is a scrappy gremlin, realistically ava could mangle it if the raptor doesnt play smart

hollow canyon
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I hardly ever see them around tbh

frosty heron
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And should be played more that's right

alpine plover
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They tried to reduce it to incentive it

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But it hasn't had that effect they were looking for

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Map is still flooded with deinos and carnos

hollow canyon
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Nah, every animal aside from Deino, Stego and Pteranodon was supposed to have their growth time reduced

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That didn't go through though

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Tenonto still takes 120 minutes to grow, Carno takes 150, Utah 90

alpine plover
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No one's playing raptor because of the dismount really

hollow canyon
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I haven't checked Dryo but I suspect its growth time remains the same as well

alpine plover
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They haven't made herbis interesting yet, and the time is still too long for Teno's

hollow canyon
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I see quite a lot of Utahs despite the fact that they're rather bad

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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The time isn't too long for Tenonto at all. It's an animal that goes either head to head with Carno

alpine plover
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And playing dryo or hypsi is just a time sink unless your trolling other players

hollow canyon
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or outright wins that fight

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Despite being incomparably easier to grow

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and way easier to maintain

alpine plover
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Then we'll chalk it up to boring herbi gameplay

hollow canyon
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It's just more so about it being a herbivore so more people consider it boring

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I personally am not exactly a fan of this animal because it's trash at hunting

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It's pretty much a purely defensive animal

frosty heron
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Herbs need quality of life updates hope diets will get into that and make their gameplay more enjoyable

hollow canyon
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If it could use the clawswipe while running I'd be playing the hell out of it

alpine plover
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I mean, combat is fun when it happens
Though you have to wait or look for a fight that gives you no real gain if you want an experience out of a herbi

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That's why Tenos or Stegos are so bloodthirsty

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They want to do something

hollow canyon
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I actively hunt stuff as a herbivore

sonic flame
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The problem is Herbivores have literally no incentive to interact with other players or travel the map

frosty heron
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I hunt Deinos with my Stego xD

sonic flame
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Carnivores at least have to find and kill herbivores or each other to survive

hollow canyon
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To me they are the same thing, they are just... easier to grow and can't eat the corpses of the things they hunt down

sonic flame
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Hopefully diets will give you a reason to go places and do things

hollow canyon
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Which sometimes feels bad after you've killed a couple of people and have their bodies go to waste

alpine plover
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The diet update might as well be the make the herbi playerbase interesting update

hollow canyon
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Also - the servers seem to be getting more laggy

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At least for me lately the game lags far more than it did the past couple of weeks

alpine plover
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It's honestly a big shame that 50% of the playables have so little mechanics and are poorly implemented

hollow canyon
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And that's an issue for Tenonto, a really big one

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the animal relies on landing its attacks precisely

sonic flame
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Most of the playables have more going on than any animal in legacy tho

hollow canyon
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They do, I agree

alpine plover
hollow canyon
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Each one of them feels like a separate animal that plays very much differently

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I don't think all the animals have to be that much different in terms of their gameplay though

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It's nice if they have their own schtick and some thing that makes them different

sonic flame
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True, tho I'm curious which animals you feel are lacking in mechanics, because personally I really only feel that way about Hypsi and Dryo

hollow canyon
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but trying to come up with a 100 different mechanics for all of our playables might seem a bit overmabitious I feel

alpine plover
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I feel that way whenever I play Teno or Stego

hollow canyon
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Tenonto is just a war-machine with 4 different attacks

alpine plover
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When I have to go hunt carni's for fun, or go on a killing spree to do something

hollow canyon
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It doesn't really need a separate mechanic I think

alpine plover
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Then something in the design isn't working

hollow canyon
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I feel that way no matter what I play

alpine plover
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^

sonic flame
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Well with Stego and Teno they both will heavily rely on diets I'd think

alpine plover
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Yeah...

sonic flame
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Stego especially

hollow canyon
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I like killing in this game, that's why I play it

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to stalk, hunt and kill stuff controlled by other players

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it's fun

alpine plover
sonic flame
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You are an herbivore, which is already off to a bad start without diets, and you are also a defensive tank, meaning you have to hope players attack you

hollow canyon
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It's... supposed to have its main source of food in the swamp areas

sonic flame
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Teno is at least fast enough to play aggressive

hollow canyon
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Yea, it is, you can actually hunt some stuff with it

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I've hunted down quite a lot of Carnos during update 2 with Tenonto

alpine plover
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Fighting raptors or carno is fun with teno, because how fair and interesting the matchups can be

sonic flame
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Personally I feel like if you are attracted to hunting type gameplay you'd be better off playing carnivores, since they are designed around hunting

hollow canyon
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Some Utahs too but I went after those more rarely

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@alpine ploverI wouldn't, but those are the only herbivores that are worth playing imo

sonic flame
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Herbivores are designed around defense meanwhile, making them inherently less interesting if you want to go on the offensive

hollow canyon
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I do

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Dryo rocks atm

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It murders juvies with ease

sonic flame
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Kind of like how most people would find Brachiosaurus unenjoyable, but I for one would love to play an invincible glacier

hollow canyon
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admittedly I've had issues with Deinos because they are just too tanky

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Yea I wouldn't want to play any sauropod. Matter of fact I think someone would have to pay me to grow another Stego.

sonic flame
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I mean a Hyperendocrine would hopefully take many more hours than a sauropod

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So the big tanky types aren't for you, which is good to know about yourself for the future

hollow canyon
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I've done it once, almost died of boredom, called quits after 4 hours despite the fact that I was afk growing it while playing another game. I've finished the next day, ran around, killed some people that were nice enough to actually try to hunt me and then died to water disappearing in the river causing me to fall to my death.

sonic flame
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I would hope they are infrequent enough that seeing one is this huge event, rather than it being like, 8 hypers a week or smth

hollow canyon
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Just going to say - that was during update 2. I haven't noticed water doing such shenanigans on the current live-build.

sonic flame
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I mean I highly highly doubt you would be able to consistently get Strains, it'll probably be complicated to the point of borderline impossibility

alpine plover
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So to summarize

  1. Herbivores need reasons to interact with other playables and the map without combat
  2. Herbivores need downtime since they're not on the hunt for food, they need activities of some capacity
  3. Herbivores should have incentives to play and should be encouraged to play in order to balance out a lobbies ecosystem, I'd advocate more mechanics be implemented than what the Carni's have(doesn't have to be direct fighting).
  4. They need challenges, other than being hunted or killed.
sonic flame
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That's assuming obtaining strains has a consistent method

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If they go with that unlock system mentioned on stream, the one that star wars game uses for its Jedi, then it'd be pretty rare I'd hope

proper zephyr
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it’d be cool if herbivores in groups could spar or play with each other while on downtime between looking for food and fighting n such

sonic flame
alpine plover
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Cool idea

proper zephyr
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yeah

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mini games like ptera’s fishing make it more lively when you aren’t flying around

alpine plover
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Ya'll feel free on stealing my suggestions

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I gotta go bounce for dinner

sonic flame
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If I were Dondi, I wouldn't make borderline invincible playables like the strains easy enough to maintain that you could describe it as "farming"

proper zephyr
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^^^

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getting strains should be an extremely tough process

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if it isn’t then balance is doomed

sonic flame
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Like let's say there are 50 things you could do, and you need to do 15 of those things to unlock the strain, with each thing being this long time consuming task, and you don't know which of the 50 you got that you need to complete.

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This is one of the times RNG would be good, you don't know what you need to do to unlock a strain

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The strains I feel are more about the lore and the shock value of actually seeing one, rather than being garden variety playables

proper zephyr
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im hoping we get humans before any sort of strain

dawn falcon
sonic flame
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Like they flat out won't be balanced I'd imagine. You get a strain and you are just flat out the best thing until you die.

granite gate
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strains are (hopefully) going to be last on the priority list

proper zephyr
dawn falcon
sonic flame
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A Brachi could probably take out a strain Utah or Carno, but a Hyper Rex is a death sentence to anything that isn't a Magnatyrannus

sonic flame
dawn falcon
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Kaijus are also invasive creatures 👀

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But

sonic flame
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depends on the context of the universe lol

granite gate
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a hypo quetz is what i fear

dawn falcon
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They’re just extremely, extremely destructive

proper zephyr
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it was said that humans playing style will be centered around repairing the abandoned buildings on the map to become bases right?

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least the mercs anyway

granite gate
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😩 🤚

dawn falcon
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Tribals would be more building while Mercs are seek, repair, establish.

proper zephyr
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imagine playing merc becomes more fun than any dinosaur and the game just becomes rust but on a tropical island

granite gate
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i hope tribals will be caves, i dont want some ugly ass structures popping up like in rust or ark or smth

dawn falcon
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More preyTI_Troll

proper zephyr
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god forbid proximity VC is a thing for mercs

dawn falcon
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A carnotaurus is pure muscle so that’s going to have to be 1. Good aim

  1. A powerful bullet, and also if you even have enough bullets since those will be rare

And finally
3. A weapon if you can even find one.

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God forbid a shotgun probably will be considered decent against a carno

full ocean
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One message removed from a suspended account.

wheat field
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Try not be be bias.

granite gate
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dude have you seen half the suggestions in #balance-feedback? it's just a bunch of carnivore mains complaining that they cant one shot things

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everyone has biases

wheat field
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The lot of them pretty reasonable and the stego one quite literally can’t be bias considering he is literally playing and complaining about stego. The rest of them talk about bleed rebalance considering it is useless to the majority of fights

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Not to mention the majority of Herbis are fairly balanced. The carnis are the ones really needing balance checks

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Considering Carnos buff suggestions. It does need Alt bite dmg increase considering how slow it is. Carno charge isn’t used as often which is balance in itself considering how valuable it can be in the future for hunting low tier dinosaur such as utah

wheat field
granite gate
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i do agree that carno's alt bite should be changed, but it should be changed speed-wise and not damage wise imo. carno charge could also use some work -- i agree it should be more rewarding to use an animal's special abilities rather than defaulting to biting (i.e, pounces for utahs, charges for carnos, lunges for deinos, etc.).

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yes, some balance suggestions are reasonable. i was referring to the ones like the most recent suggestion, where someone just complains that tenontos shouldnt be able to use their primary defense without a large cooldown (despite already using stam). tenontos are fairly balanced already, and certainly dont need to be weakened.

wheat field
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Perfect we agree. Now you can keep giving feedback ima go play BF5

vapid fable
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@languid frost everyone thinks their dino is underpowered so stop asking for buffs and nerfs, everything is balanced rn and will be more balanced with diet and perk system

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@languid frost and you're wrong about so many things you said, first of all carno turn got a huge nerf just last patch, and they dont "bite too fast" because they bite just as fast as utah, so does utah need a bite speed nerf too? also a good teno absolutely destroys carnos, carno does not "easily" kill tenos, one head slam and carno is stunned, two more and they're dead, go watch some videos or just ask for one in isle-discussion

hollow canyon
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Carno's definitely not that good against Tenonto. I just had a fight against one and despite the fact that I've played it in the most sub-optimal way possible(by running after it and trading clawswipes and Tenonto bites for Carno bites) it still went down like a house of cards the moment it decided to actually commit and got hit with a single tailslam.

I'm not good with Tenonto because I don't like this whole waiting for your opponent thing, it's not my playstyle and Tenonto's pretty bad at going after something. Nevertheless it has the easiest to land form of hard crowd control in the game and the moment you land it on a Carno the fight is over unless it dealt a tonne of damage you before you hit either a kick or a tailslam. That's also coupled with the fact that Tenonto outheals Carno by a mile on the current patch.

Is it an issue with how the game is right now? Not really because there aren't that many Tenontos and even when they are they don't have enough offensive options to grief fully grown animals(having said that I've killed 2 young Carnos and a young Utah the moment I saw them without them being able to do much about because their stamina was just worse so they eventually got ran down). Is Tenonto too good when compared to other animals in the roster? Yea, it kind of is. I wouldn't nerf it for now though since it's not particularly oppressive.

sinful cove
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Tenonto isnt too good for the roster, it's just that there aren’t a lot of the animals carno is supposed to hunt in game yet

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Not a tenonto problem

hollow canyon
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I think tenonto is a perfectly fine target for Carno to hunt

granite gate
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tenontos are arguably the best-balanced dinos in-game rn. they dont go around in murder packs killing everyone, but they still have a decent chance in a 1v1 and if more than one person at a time manages to play as a tenonto, they're great in a herd

hollow canyon
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Saying that they have a "decent chance" in a 1v1 is a bit of an understatement imo.

grave veldt
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ok i just counted stego only has 10 tail swings b4 its out of stam

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13-ish with stam regen

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thats actually insane

hollow canyon
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Yea it uses up 10% of its stamina for every swing. I've already said in this channel that it burns through its stamina pool way too fast.

grave veldt
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i knew it was bad but like wow

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this is literally stegos only weapon

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and ur limited to 10 swings basically

dusky surge
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stego needs another attack imo, or something else

silent comet
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Stego is good as it is rn

dusky surge
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people don't like grinding stego for 5 hours for a character that relies entirely on a single attack and is essentially a walking brick wall. Granted, stego feels beefy as shit and its satisfying to land that tail, but teno can pull out like 4 different moves depending on his opponents actions and location, whereas stego has one very slow attack. Stego may be strong, but he's really not interesting enough to be worth the major grind.

left scroll
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yeah. the stam drain would make sense, if it had other attacks it could rely on

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teno's tail slam is it's major attack, and consumes a lot of stam. However, teno still has other pretty decent attacks it can rely on

dusky surge
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stego has ONE attack. Once you've caught a stego and you bait out enough of his tails, he kinda just has to sit there like an idiot

left scroll
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none of the bites for carnis consume any stam at all iirc

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so its weird that basically the only useful attack for stego is so limited

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cus that bite aint even worthwhile

dusky surge
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if stego had some kind of charge/ram/trample attack for front-facing opponents, that could help combo into a tail, it could be better

left scroll
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tbh a stab vs swipe would be a good way of doing it imo. the stab being the stronger one, but the one that consumes more stam, while the swipe is a little less powerful, but has a wider range of attack and doesnt use as much stam

dusky surge
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idk, stego feels kinda balanced but not fun. Doesn't have half the cool tools of a teno or much defining it besides "beefy bastard who can one-shot raptors". Not worth the 5 hour grind imo

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also the fact that if a stego forms a herd of any more than 2 adults, nothing will ever fight them and the game kinda just becomes "waltz around and eat food because nothing is really a prime threat for you"

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nothing scares a fully grown stego with a herd. Perhaps with more venom-based or nocturnal creatures that can attack when stego has their guard down and weaken them over time, this would shift things up

grave veldt
sinful cove
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stego is good as is... if you want it to be a fodder animal for rawr xd carnivore rp hunts where you can act tough for killing a weak animal disguised as a strong one

granite gate
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rn for instance, stegos have to play pretty tactfully to avoid getting mauled by megapacks of carnos / utahs. not that it's impossible of course, they still hit hard, but they definitely have to be pretty careful to avoid being baited and to stay near a rock / tree

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a lot of the people saying "ive played stego and demolished packs of carnis" are mostly people who have played a fair amount of stego in either legacy or evrima or both. a skillful stego should absolutely demolish other dinos. a shit stego gets killed pretty fast in evrima...

grave veldt
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stego has so many turn offs and for no reason

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2X multiplier, long cool down for certain tail attacks, hp is relatively low which is fine but not rly

granite gate
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well the stam drain on tail swipe is kinda ridiculous rn

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even just realistically speaking it's weird that a cornered stego would be exhausted by swinging its tail around 10 times

grave veldt
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the long ass cd on the tail swings front and back

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and the 2X are def enough of a downside

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it doesnt need even more nerfs

granite gate
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yeh...

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why grow 5 hours for something with (again, unless you're a stego main) worse survivability than a croc for the same amount of time? of course stegos can survive a decent amount of time if they play smart and stick to trees n rocks, but even the more stupid crocs are pretty much immortal in my experience

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even if they mess up big time they can just run back into the water

grave veldt
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theres literally 0 reason to play stego rn

dusky surge
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i mean, besides fucking with deinos, yea

granite gate
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even then a half decent deino can now 1v1 a stego

grave veldt
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not anymore

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deinos can spam alt bite to bite the head thru the ass of the stego after a lunge

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theres 0 reason as to why u would play stego rn its pretty sad

old hull
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finally people noticed this

granite gate
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f

granite gate
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@dusty fable deinos can currently 1 shot everything on the roster minus stegos, using their lunge n drown ability. how does that make them underwhelming bruh...

dusty fable
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no they cant

granite gate
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?

dusty fable
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they dont even 1 shot utahs

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unless they lunge

slim dragon
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Currently deinos have the upper hand against stegos

dusty fable
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and lunge is hard to pull off considering everything can see you move into postition to lunge

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no they done

granite gate
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bruh i said "using their lunge and drown ability"

dusty fable
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ive seen stego sit in deep water waiting for a deino to try so they can beat the ever loving sh*t out of them

dusty fable
granite gate
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???????? what?

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unless those players are hacking, they should not be able to see you underwater

slim dragon
granite gate
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^

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just abuse alt bite

dusty fable
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and ive seen way more times a stego in water fishing for deinos

granite gate
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literally shit tons of people have started 1v1ing stegos as deinos and winning easily

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if you're a half-decent deino you can win against a stego -- if you actually use your kit to fight it instead of trying to facetank it like a legacy rex

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yeah, facetanking a stego will kill you. oh the horror.......

dusty fable
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a half decent deino vs a ha;f decent stego is no atch for deino, no matter where they are, unless to stego is dumb enough to go into swimming animation or gives you free hits, the deino will loose 80% of the time

granite gate
#

i guess that's where our opinions differ. to me, a deino should have to be far more skillful than a stego in order to win. that's not even the case right now -- if you properly ambush a stego as it's drinking, you can pretty easily kill it.
now keep in mind carnos and raptors can also kill stegos, especially with all the megapacks running around.
what threatens deinos other than other deinos? a stego that can be 1v1'd easily by a single deino?

#

right now stego's survivability for the average player is trash. meanwhile, a shit deino can survive all the way to adulthood easily, surviving off of AI as long as it manages to not be cannibalized.

alpine plover
#

Play on a dead server and boom

#

adult deino

#

it’s so easy to grow one atm

#

just takes forever

granite gate
#

seriously, if stegos are so op why do i only ever see 1 herd of like 3-4 adults on a server of 100 people? meanwhile both rivers are infested with 30+ adult deinos?

dusty fable
#

stego survivablity is trash? no it isnt. everyone always gathers at south, center, or south east swamp. if you go to literally any other water source your chance of finding a deino is slim

dusty fable
ripe zinc
#

Deino kills a stego by the water ez

granite gate
#

i dont see a shit ton of pteras anymore tho

#

why? because they're not op

#

deinos are easy to play rn, only thing you have to worry about is other deinos cannibalizing you. you see a stego by the water's edge trying to fish? how about trying something radical like, just swimming away from it?

dusty fable
#

and about the ambush, deino does 500 damage per bit, im pretty sure stego tail does 1000 since ive been 1 shot as a full health utah. i have been lunged as a half hp utah and survived. it takes a deino 12 bited to kill a stego, it takes a stego 8 hits. so unless you can get 4 hits off its not a fair fight

granite gate
#

meanwhile stegos have to drink every 30 minutes maximum (yes, that's their full thirst bar gone in 30 minutes) and every time they risk encountering a deino at deeper parts of the river, or carnos/utahs at shallower parts of the river

#

it takes like 8 bites for a deino to kill a stego on its body, which it can reach through to right now easily

ripe zinc
granite gate
#

well they're not OP in fights is what i meant

#

survival-wise they're OP

dusty fable
#

ptera is less popular because its a throwaway animal

granite gate
#

people should use their fuckin kits..... why not suggest that stego bite be buffed?

ripe zinc
dusty fable
#

it did. it pulled me under, and i got away

granite gate
#

after all, all that matters is bite force, right?

#

then it should have held on better, or ensured it had proper stam

dusty fable
#

yes

#

it held me enough to bring me to the south pond from just past the shallow area

#

so yes, it had full stam

#

and i still goot away

slim dragon
#

Then it did something wrong

dusty fable
#

no it didnt,

slim dragon
#

Carrying a dino on the surface of the water doesn't drown it

dusty fable
#

it lunged me, brought me there, pulled me under, then i escaped

slim dragon
#

You're literally saying a deino can't drown anything
Which we both know is false

granite gate
#

lmao then it must have fucked up and let go of rmb

slim dragon
#

You've seen a deino drown something at least once, right ?

#

So you know this one did something wrong

granite gate
#

deinos can literally drown adult carnos and adult tenontos easily

#

it's also fine if they fail sometimes especially when they screw up. deinos should not succeed at every single hunt every single time just because they take 5 hours to grow

dusky surge
#

if deino really was that shit, we wouldn't have servers literally infested with them

granite gate
#

^

dusty fable
dusky surge
#

stego however, does not infest servers

dusty fable
#

people just want to feel big

dusky surge
#

because compared to deino he is far less mechanically interesting

dusty fable
#

legacy rex could get fucked by a single utah

granite gate
dusty fable
#

yet rexs where all you saw

#

deino has less stam than a utah

slim dragon
#

Or it was carrying you at the surface of the water

granite gate
#

^

#

which is a waste of time

dusky surge
#

utah is meant to be high stam tho

dusty fable
#

it pulled me under

#

heard the heartbeat

dusky surge
#

deino has to drag around its massive body wherever it goes, of course it's gonna have less stam

granite gate
#

so why did it not bother to try snapping at you as you swam back to shore? or what?

#

just sounds like a stupid ass deino

slim dragon
#

XPLOYTED you know deino can drown things
Why are you still arguing that it can't ?

#

The fact you survived one time, whatever the reason, doesn't mean it's impossible for deino to drown something

dusty fable
#

im escaped many times

slim dragon
#

I can argue that I've seen a lot of dinos get drowned

dusty fable
#

just save your stam when you drink. almost everything has higher stam than it

slim dragon
#

So what ? Is one of us lying ?

dusty fable
#

im not arguing deino cant drown thing im arguing that deino is shit

slim dragon
#

I don't even think grabbed dinos waste deino's stam

dusky surge
#

i disagree with the notion that deino is shit

#

stego, dryo and hypsi are far higher priority imho

#

hell, even utah feels worse

dusty fable
#

utah isnt supposed to be good though

#

not alone anyway

granite gate
#

even if deino is shit, it can literally survive off of easy AI anyways. it has the best survivability out of all dinos right now excluding ptera

dusty fable
dusky surge
#

okay but he sucks in groups too lmao. His damage is so low and his pounce punishes him for using it, so what's the point of ever using his main tool

slim dragon
granite gate
#

then balance it again. spino is not in right now, so we're not discussing its balance in relation to a dino that wont even be added for another year at least

dusky surge
#

can spino dive or would it remain on surface

#

because if it chills on the surface than deino can hide under it

#

sorry, spino

slim dragon
#

It will be able to dive

dusky surge
#

ah

dusty fable
#

deino is supposed to be an apex killer. right now it feels like a mid tier hunter. just an oddly shaped sucho

dusky surge
#

eh, it's pretty oppressive atm as far as i can tell

slim dragon
#

here did you see it's supposed to be an apex killer ?

dusky surge
#

i dont think it's designed to take on the likes of rexes or gigas, but it has such great stealth options and such power when it comes to locking down it's environment that it doesn't need to

#

if any food is near the water and the deino wants it, it's pretty much already theirs. Especially against utah, who cannot drag kills away fast enough to avoid the deino.

dusty fable
#

it was literally said by punch some time ago "we will make full use of its apex killing potential"

dusky surge
#

its clearly designed to hunt smaller game tho.

dusty fable
#

it shouldnt be

dusky surge
#

why not

#

that seems perfectly fine

#

small-mid sized prey makes fine sense

#

it can take in basically anything that isn't an adult stego

dusty fable
#

for now

#

but with a bite force that supposedly stronger than a rex, an ability to drown things and high stealth for the uncautious it cant do any of that

dusky surge
#

i dont see whats wrong with it, i think its designed quite well. It kills things efficiently with ambush techniques, all dinos are forced to eventually visit one of its habitats due to a need to drink, so it doesn't need to waste time hunting, it can kill most of the roster very quickly and has amazing stealth capabilities

slim dragon
#

Haha the biteforce argument

dusty fable
#

i said its supposedly, i did not say anything that it would be

dusky surge
#

utah is far worse when it comes to "bad carnivores", specifically due to the whole "pounce = complete loss of movement no matter if you hit it or not and you take stupid damage you shouldn't have" fiasco

dusty fable
#

but if it stays the same, they shouldnt have hyped it up to be this huge river monster capable of spareing up rexs

dusky surge
#

i mean, if it could spar up to rexes, it'd be fucked design wise

dusty fable
#

thats what the trailer showed

slim dragon
#

No
The trailer showed it roaring at a rex then backing away

dusky surge
#

i dont remember seeing a rex fight a deino in there

slim dragon
#

But I didn't see the deino kill the rex

dusty fable
#

not fight, but square off against one

slim dragon
#

This is just an assumption

dusty fable
#

thye could have showed deino face against anything else yet they specifically picked the apex-iest apex there is

slim dragon
#

Because its more impressive

dusty fable
#

implying that it can hold its own in a head to head against one

dusky surge
#

well yes, the deino would, in-game, naturally do that with a rex. Since neither side would be confident in killing the other since deino is in the water where it had an advantage and rex was positioned on land, neither side would want to approach, hence the hissing and not actually fighting

slim dragon
#

It's implying nothing, we also see a spino walking in the forest, does that imply that it's a forest predator ?

dusty fable
#

im pretty sure since deino currently looses in or out of water to psuedo apex stego, a rex would go for it

dusty fable
dusky surge
#

how does deino lose in water

#

ive seen dumbass deinos charge a stego and get rightfully punished

#

but deinos in the water sport the power of just fucking leaving into the water

slim dragon
#

Herrera is

dusty fable
#

land = forest. its taking after the spino in jp3

#

forest is a part of land last time i checked

slim dragon
granite gate
dusky surge
#

As I see it Deino is the "apex" ambusher, the best of its class. It has very high health, decent damage, a unique sense that grants it the best tracking if something enters its specific environment and a powerful move that can instantly kill most opponents if used correctly. However, it's not an apex in the same way, say, a T-Rex is apex, since it cannot roam and is far less a hunter than a patient ambusher. It shouldn't be allowed to take on others in the apex tier because its designed to ambush, not go in for long-winded fights.

mellow zenith
granite gate
full ocean
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

dusty fable
#

Damn, that looks cool. Wish the lighting was that good in game

dim radish
#

Wdym

old hull
#

sometimes it is

dim radish
#

Day and sunset/sunrise looks good

#

But night not so much. That'll be worked on tho

dusky surge
#

i feel like the lighting is really good as it is in Evermia

slim dragon
#

It's way above the average in terms of quality

dusky surge
#

i can agree that night is a bit

#

meh

#

especially since the dynamic lighting of the moon is far less notable and it's really just... dark

slim dragon
#

That's because we don't have night vision yet, so it can't be too dark

grave veldt
#

ur barley useful at anything till atleast 60% growth

#

even then ur pretty bad still

#

u got a 2X multiplier on your head, u cant outrun anything, u have long cd's on front and back tail attacks

#

theres 0 reason to be a stego and waste 5 hours

dusky surge
#

eh, i do feel stegos are quite good, especially with herds, but i can see what you're on about

#

zero flair

#

i mean, it's still better than hypsi and dryo

#

but that's really not an impressive margin

grave veldt
#

its just why would u be a stego when u could be a deino and tank more hits + the bonus of just going into water if things get bad

misty rock
#

Because deino boring

grave veldt
#

ig

#

but deino is a specific playstyle and not everyone will like it

#

hopefully diets makes things interesting

dusky surge
#

imo, deino is still more engaging than poor stego

#

deino can bite, drag, ambush, move stealthily, sense movement, so on. Stego gets a tail swipe that drains tons of stam

misty rock
#

Deino life: swim back and forth in center river to find nothing but ganker cannibal pair

dim radish
#

Make up your damn mind people.
Some say Stego is trash, some say it's op, can we just agree that it is fine for now?

dusky surge
#

i think stego is very well balanced

grave veldt
#

its anything but fine rn nor have i said its op

dusky surge
#

i simply think it's not FUN

grave veldt
#

its the fact that all its positives are negated by its negatives

misty rock
#

If stego hangs around in open field it is bad decision

dusky surge
#

big difference

dusky surge
grave veldt
#

theres way too many disadvantages for a creature that already attacks slow

#

ur literally supposed to be out in the field

#

and yet it does so poorly

misty rock
#

I think stego should stick in forests

#

I think stego should stick in forests

grave veldt
#

terrible idea for the future

dusky surge
#

why

#

that's literally not how stego is designed from a biological pov

#

stego is a massive field grazer

misty rock
#

It is best environment to counter attacks right now

#

I am talking about in gamr design

grave veldt
#

yes but thats the issue u rly shouldn't be there

dusky surge
#

i've literally been a game designer

grave veldt
#

but stego is just not that good so u dont rly have a choice

dusky surge
#

you know you can change a creature's design to benefit it in certain environments?

#

aka, making stego much more designed to be present in large fields and take that as their primary habitat

misty rock
#

I mean with the current gameplay it is best go stick in forest so it will be hard for utahs to pounce and carnos to run around you quickly

#

If you are in open you are vulnarable

grave veldt
#

which just shows just how bad stego is

dusky surge
#

i agree, stego should not be some forest creature

misty rock
#

No it is good that certain dinos have their own habitats to stick with

grave veldt
#

yes but its habitat is meant to me a plains grazer

#

not a forest dweller

misty rock
#

I do not know how it is planned in the first place i do not mind if it is forest or field animal

dusky surge
grave veldt
#

it was planned on trello to be a plains grazer as said by a few devs as well

misty rock
#

But rn forest is the best choice to go

dusky surge
#

yes

#

we are aware

#

however

#

the devs can try to change that

frosty heron
#

No matter what people will keep saying Stego is bad, and Utah its OP, just because some Stegos have died to Utah packs and they think that's unbalanced. I see a common pattern there

misty rock
#

Also maybe they can go to eat grass and turn back to their nests in forest later?

dusky surge
#

utah isn't OP tho

grave veldt
#

utah is actually not op

dusky surge
#

utah kinda sucks ass atm tbh lmao

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

it needs fixing not nerfing

dusky surge
grave veldt
frosty heron
#

And yes Stego shouldn't be sticking to forest, it's a plains animal. But I think on combat being on a dense forest gives you a big advantage so it's not a bad idea to have one close

misty rock
#

I do not mind if it becomes field animal i was talking about the current gameplay

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

explain

#

why would u ever pick stego rn

dusky surge
#

thinking realistically, a stego would not be able to use it's massive tail in a dense forest, nor would it be able to take advantage of the dense shrubbery to hide

grave veldt
#

big dmg numbers?

dusky surge
#

stego isn't underpowered tho

misty rock
#

But forcing them to stay in forest would solve the campimg in river thing

dusky surge
#

it's just not fun

misty rock
#

Utah is the most fun to play rn imo

dusky surge
frosty heron
#

While is not the best made Dino, Stego still the only playable capable of 1 shooting Utahs, do big damage to Carnos and even bully Deinos in certain cases

dusky surge
#

i have to say that i really don't think stego is underpowered

grave veldt
#

only if u can actually hit them

frosty heron
dusky surge
#

it's just not that fun or interesting

grave veldt
#

have ppl not figured out the deino method?

#

wait till it gets popular

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

wow i never thought of that

#

place my swings

frosty heron
#

Mmm yes? A lot of Stegos just swing spam to the air

grave veldt
#

they literally cant spam tho

#

u only have 12-13 tail swings

#

and ur out

frosty heron
#

And yet they still do spam/miss swings, some of them are missed from obvious baits

#

A good Stego will place those better unless it gets swarmed by Utahs

grave veldt
#

yes but thats way too much stam usage for stegos tail

#

this is literally its only weapon

frosty heron
#

At least with Carnos I hit the 90% of my swings

#

Idk I think the Stego it's just "fine" for the current game status, people just likes to downplay their mains without a good reason, happens everywhere

grave veldt
#

no its not fine ppl just dont see the issue cuz its "op" to sum ppl

#

it needs fixing not buffing

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

no thats absolutley untrue

#

sorry

#

a utah gets hit after they dismount

#

their a bad player now?

golden coral
#

Carnos have a harder time vs stego than utah, that makes some sense. They're a bigger target and all that. Stego is "bad", not because of lack of power, but because of bad delivery of said power. The stego does not so much needs buffs or nerfs, it needs fixing, just like the utah.

#

It's flaws in the design of the critter rather than any stat issue I would say.

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

they should be

#

like how deino has almost no collision

#

so its able to bite stegos head thru its ass with an alt bite

frosty heron
#

Well as I said those game design mistakes shouldn't be counted, exploiting that won't make you a good/bad player

#

It just happens, like desync

#

But I've seen both scenarios where Utah is OP because "I died to Utahs" and Stego is OP "because I lost my Deino" and I believe on most of those scenarios people has to be constructive and not go into whining immediately

mystic loom
#

just got killed because of this

dim crown
#

Utah main? On a rock? TI_Yikes

dusky surge
#

what

ripe zinc
#

find a taller rock

languid frost
#

@vapid fable first of all, I'm not one of those players thinking "his dino" is underpowered, I play all dinos, even if I main some I want all to be balanced, I want avoidable challenges fighting, not one thing being OP and others being just meatballs. Also we're talking about fighting and juking abilities, don't talk about diets here.
Second thing, you said I'm wrong maybe thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about, as if I hadn't been playing this since September, and I didn't know how to play or that I just play one dino, when I've played all of them a lot and killed everything as everything in different scenarios, even stegos as carno or utah 1v1 not even taking damage.
Now ofc tenos can destroy carnos if those carnos attack like idiots or teno knows exactly what to do, but if carno bite and turn good timing, teno has nothing to do. Teno attacks are slower to repeat and tail slam takes a lot of stam. I'm not saying carrno should be slower biting anyway, but turning in place while running, RUNNING. Like you're running forward and then press S. I know the progressive turning rate has been nerfed, same walking, but that turn rate (again RUNNING and suddenly looking back) hasn't been nerfed, or if it was, it's almost imperceptible. Add that to the broken bite or desync or whatever is the reason you take bites from carno even when you already are behind them or 5m away to the side and you're done, forget about juke or survive a fight, even if you manage to hit them, they would've bitten you prolly every single time.

wheat field
#

Long lost to start with

#

List*

languid frost
#

@vapid fable The thing is, considering both players are skilled and equal fighting, utah v teno is a balanced fight (more chances for teno due to strength, health, etc, but avoidable), carno v teno isn't so balanced but we can say it is more or less (still way more chances for carno due to its faster attack and turn running), carno v utah isn't at all (carno will always win or make the utah run away). Even running away isn't an option the way the game is working rn, since most times their bites land no matter if you juke to the side, run behind them or even jump above a log (I took a bite some days ago from a carno like that, I was in the air and already far from its mouth, it was stuck in that log and still landed the bite). And let's better not mention the slow movement dismounting after a pounce lmao

vapid fable
#

@languid frost carno vs utah is supposed to be in carnos favor, you can't ask for nerfs because you're having trouble winning a fight that's supposed to be risky to start with, and the slow movement after dismounting is because you held shift before you actually landed, that won't register the sprint, it's not the games fault

#

@languid frost if carno like you said gets a nerf, then what can kill utah? you're asking to nerf carno because it can turn when it's running, but that turn stops carno completely so why does it matter? when they turn like that they drift and stop completely
it seems to me you want carno nerfed so you can have a easier time killing them

#

carno is the only carnivore faster than utah, and in evrima it's so easy not to die to them as utah because you have so many ways to escape, you can jump across a river, on a rock, juke them, lose them in the forrest, outstam them because you have twice the stam

#

the only way you can die is if you play too aggressive, and even then, you'd have to get bit 3 times to die, or fail your pounce

#

if a utah doesn't want to die to carno, they should not, so stop asking to nerf a dino because you have a hard time killing them

wheat field
vapid fable
#

i think the issue is people don't realize any other mid tier carnivore is going to dump on carno, especially with how little stam carno has, and instead they're trying to do it with utah which isn't supposed to fight carno to begin with

#

if you have a pack, go for it, but accept that it's a risky fight

languid frost
#

@vapid fable I hold shift right after I land on the ground, it doesn't matter, it's a free hit most times. Also as you said is supposed to be in carnos favour sure, they're stronger and faster running, RISKY, but not a dead sentence and an easy fight for carnos just running and biting with no skills. Also utah is meant to kill bigger things, that's why they have pounce, jump and agility. So even if the carno survives, at least a single utah should be able to give a proper fight to a carno like the competitors they are, not being am easy prey.

Now, even slowing carno turn rate it would be able to kill utahs, most of them, would be just harder to kill a good utah player knowing what to do. Rn it stops the carno completely yeah, but the head is already looking back, it just makes impossible to avoid their bites, so it really matters.
And btw, I play carno too and it's pretty ez ro kill utahs even in the woods, you just need to track them. As I said I don't want any of them being easy to kill, I want them balanced, being challenging to fight each others, not making carno unavoidable or impossible to fight like now

#

@vapid fable haahaha how many times have you played as utah and juke a carno after update 3 tell me, do you really did it? Cause their bites land whatever you do and where you are

vapid fable
vapid fable
#

carno biting you from 20 ft away is not carno hitbox, that's server desync

languid frost
#

Also how much forest is in the game? How much food can you find in the forest? Nah you need to go to the plains far from rocks, the river and any wood.

#

And yeah I know is desync, I mentioned that too, maybe you didn't read it

vapid fable
#

how much forest is in the game are you serious?

wheat field
vapid fable
#

and yes i played plenty of utah, and i never died to carno chasing me, i always manage to lose them

#

so like i said, if you're getting hit while running, that's you not juking right, because go ask anyone in the discussion channel, is it hard to juke a carno

languid frost
#

Well congrats then, maybe you don't die cause of that desync, maybe you weren't alone so while that carno focused on others you ran away, or maybe that carno didn't know what was doing directly

vapid fable
#

look it's simple, most people don't have an issue juking carnos, so that's a skill problem not balance issue

wheat field
languid frost
#

Yeah sure, I've soloed a lot of carnos before but it's a skill problem, and good carnos but the way

vapid fable
#

and dude 80% of the map is forrest

#

then why are you complaining lol

#

you kill carnos

languid frost
#

With no food? Are you reading what I say or just what you want to read to accomplish your arguments?

vapid fable
#

i think reading meanless arguments is pointless because carno just got nerfed twice in a row and they didn't touch anything you mentioned

languid frost
#

And btw I'm not complaining, that's what you're doing, I'm exposing a fact, reasoning and taking everything in consideration, you're just assuming I wanna nerf carno to easily kill it, or that I don't know how to juke and fight carnos, ffs you're even saying it's possible to survive staying in woods as if ai was everywhere lmao

vapid fable
#

so don't listen to me, but the devs nerfed carnos stam in half and didn't change your complaints, it's pretty clear what they think is the issue

#

let's just say we have different opinions

languid frost
#

You know I agree with that, so just shut up, I didn't ask for your opinion anyway, and if you take a look to my suggestion, you'll see more people agreeing

#

Stam doesn't matter when you have a carno next to you, it will catch you before it's depleted

lament cloak
#

@dusty fable the game isnt a fighting game. it is a survival game. just because one animal doesn't have a good matchup against another animal doesn't mean that animal isnt as good. deino has insane matchups against everything except stego. just because one thing beats it isnt a good reason to lower its growth

#

and deinos matchup against stego isnt even that bad, a good deino can murder an unsuspecting stego pretty quickly

languid frost
#

Oh one last thing, you say carno has been nerfed, yeah that's true, not enough tho, almost imperceptible expect for the stam, but also each time they nerf carno, others are nerfed too and even more, and that's a fact

vapid fable
#

yes we get it you hate carno

languid frost
#

Keep saying I'm complaining lmao, if everyone was like you taking as complaints every argument and reason we would still be in the Stone age 😂

vapid fable
#

i think complaints that are actually educated and not out of hatre on a specific dino are more worth reading

languid frost
#

I don't hate carno, I've played carno a lot, what I don't like is anything way more OP than it should

vapid fable
#

op? nothing should die to it 1v1

#

if you think it's op you're just bad

#

it's that simple

#

literally nothing should die to it, you run into the forrest and it loses you

#

if you're ambushed, or you played too aggressive that's your fault, but accept the risk will you

languid frost
#

And it's exactly what I think about stego and deinos since they can use the tail with more than half body in the water, oh and just to be clear, I play more stego than deino, fixing that would make it harder for me as stego to fight deinos, but you know what? Would be balanced and better. Now keep saying I want to nerf something cause I hate it

vapid fable
#

fighting something bigger is gonna be risky dude

lament cloak
#

tbf, a good carno is a pretty big threat to the entire roster on land atm. but that can be said about pretty much every animal with combat capabilities too

vapid fable
#

you're saying carno should be nerfed this and that, but we have 20 dinos that are bigger than carno that haven't even come out yet

lament cloak
languid frost
#

I'll try to be clear, carno isn't an apex, carno isn't a big carnivore thst should be able to kill a utah in a fight as if it was a dryo, utahs shouldn't run away from one carno, so yeah, carno is OP and added to desync makes it barely killable

wheat field
vapid fable
#

yes and that is actually gone with the stam nerf

#

you can't run half of the central without using all of your stam as carno

#

so what happens when a dilo bites a carno once and it needs to wallow?

#

when an allo bites it once and it needs to run

#

look carno is trash

lament cloak
vapid fable
#

don't believe me but when other mid tiers come out, you'll realize carno really isn't that viable

languid frost
#

And again, utahs are meant to kill things bigger than carnos, 2 or 3 should be able to kill a maia not even taking damage, 1 utah should be able to kill a carno in a good fight. Okay I get it, since it's the biggest carnivore on land it's needed to be stronger to keep utahs away from erasing an entire server, but is excessive tbh

lament cloak
vapid fable
#

that's about picking your fight imo, carno is faster, so killing an allo or cerato will be easier for utah

languid frost
#

Prolly once others are added carno will get a nerf to keep it balanced, otherwise allo would need a bite force like deino has to balance them

wheat field
vapid fable
vapid fable
lament cloak
#

carno will have a better time against cera than a utah would. but against allo you either want to be bigger than it, and if your smaller you want to be more agile which falls to utah

wheat field
#

A utah is not gonna be able to kill an Allo and Cera because they all have relatively similar speed and stats, Allo is quite literally a bigger better and stronger Utah as well as cera

vapid fable
#

if you're bringing up the guaranteed hit when dismount that's there by design, and it's not a guaranteed hit, learn to dismount when your target is running

vapid fable
golden coral
wheat field
vapid fable
languid frost
#

Yeah I this case at least 2 utahs should be needed to fight an allo, and I say fight, not kill

lament cloak
languid frost
#

3 to kill it

golden coral
grave veldt
vapid fable
wheat field
golden coral
#

And yes, allo is probably going to be slower than utah, but allo might be plenty fast even so.

languid frost
#

So according to that, if 2 or 3 utahs can't properly fight a carno, that's making carno better than allo, when it shouldn't be

wheat field
#

Nothing to do with balance

vapid fable
lament cloak
golden coral
languid frost
#

Well according to their size and weight, speed, agility etc, a utahs should give a good fight against a carno or cera, even if they die, and 2 against an allo, same, prolly dying, but fighting, not being a prey

wheat field
#

Or not

golden coral
#

Two utahs vs an allo?..

grave veldt
#

stats cant always judge the dinosaur and how it plays

languid frost
#

I didn't say they would kill the allo, I said it would be a good and balanced fight, at least 3 would be needed to kill the allo

grave veldt
#

3-4 utahs is a balanced fight for an allo

lament cloak
golden coral
vapid fable
#

utahs should try to kill things slower than it i think we can all agree on that, utah is a one mistake dino, so there's nothing wrong with it being easy to kill, plus that thing has 75 minutes growth time

wheat field
# vapid fable oh boi...

Its gonna take more because Utah can’t utilize pounce on Carno because of its speed. Not to mention because carno is faster it can go for hit in runs. So naturally it is gonna take more utahs to kill a carno than it is a slower target

grave veldt
golden coral
vapid fable
golden coral
languid frost
#

And yeah carnos are meant to kill smaller things, but the way it works makes utah like a dryo for them, carno should turn slower, they already have advantage with the movement speed and strength, allo by the other hand should turn faster than carno since they're slower

grave veldt
#

stego TI_Succ

wheat field
grave veldt
#

its stam usage on a tail swing is actually cancer

wheat field
grave veldt
#

quite bad

golden coral
#

@lament cloakI'm basically thinking that if it takes a full pack (more or less), that's at least 6-7+ for a good chance, then it would be 4-5+ or so for the "mid", allo/maia and others. Carno would under normal circumstances be a good target, except for it being designed for shitting on small tiers. Just like kentro would be a good target, except well, no good pounce slots for obvious reasons.. :p

grave veldt
#

i def agreed before stego could swing like 50 times which is too much

#

but now it can only swing 10

#

12-13 with stam regen

languid frost
#

@vapid fable precisely being a one mistake dino is the reason to make carno more avoidable to fight, i mean utah has everything against it anyway, carnos always would keep advantage, turning that fast just makes them unkillable, and if they keep that turning rate and bite force won't be balanced even fighting allos or whatever you want, they always will have advantage no matter the scenario

lament cloak
wheat field
#

How are you even supposed to kill a damn kentro when you are prob gonna take dmg from just biting the damn thing

grave veldt
#

go for the head

wheat field
#

What is the damn thing Thanos only the head is a kill shot

golden coral
grave veldt
#

theres also a side gap if u wanna risk it

wheat field
grave veldt
#

or its fat ass spike on the side of its body lol

golden coral
#

@wheat fieldI'm sure some other smalls might be good at it. I imagine solo utahs would do fine headbiting. And mono maybe, cerato, and others.

#

Would be nice if there were some targets where you're better off solo/pairs vs having a pack

grave veldt
#

its not invincible tho its still in general not very big as a creature and it has weak points

wheat field
#

Im just looking at Kentro and it looks like a damn fortress

grave veldt
#

it wont have a lot of hp and it doesnt have too much weight

#

im sure agile creatures will bite the head and kill it

golden coral
#

Yeh, that's what it should be. So vunerable to smaller and faster stuff that can go around and headbite, but strong vs bigger things.

grave veldt
#

by baiting tail swing or shoulder attacks

#

kentro and diablo r like mini stego and trike

#

change my mind

wheat field
#

Mid-Tier Versions

grave veldt
#

^^^

golden coral
#

I don't think they're midtier, small tier? :p

grave veldt
#

well yes while they r small tier

golden coral
#

Kentro is tiny! :D

grave veldt
#

their able to punch up

golden coral
#

True

grave veldt
#

both diablo and kentro have the opportunity to punch up and be able to defend themselves from bigger threats

#

such as allo and alberto

lament cloak
#

i mean, kentro isnt that small. I can see kentro and dibble fighting a single allo because their weapons are so single directional

3WqH1wX.png
grave veldt
#

it would make sense too

#

as seeing a diablo and kentro faster then an allo would be kinda cursed

#

lol

lament cloak
#

though if not in a forest or something dibble and kentro would be pretty screwed against 2 allos or alberts

grave veldt
#

ofc that is to be expected

#

although considering diablo is a ceratopsian and kentros spikes

#

if in a rly good position they might be able to do it

slim dragon
languid frost
#

Ooof omfg they really made utah stupidly small, same for Kentro and dibble but not that small... ofc they die like that against carnos, they're damn JP Raptors, not utahs

golden coral
#

.... You only realized this now?..

slim dragon
#

What ? They're accurately sized

golden coral
#

Maybe size, but not bulk Necro

slim dragon
#

I mean, Utah is super skinny, but it's at its accurate size

languid frost
#

Nah I already knew it, you just need to look a utah next to a door in legacy and do the same in evrima

golden coral
#

So it's not an accurate utahraptor, it's a JP raptor as Imperishable stated

grave veldt
#

actually wait ppl keep saying that dryo isnt supposed to burrow right?

lament cloak
slim dragon
languid frost
#

But ffs, making some dinos thst small while the others are more or less accurate is shit, thst just give an easy game for the rest

grave veldt
# slim dragon Dryo burrowing wasn't confirmed

ok i was just wondering cuz i saw this on trello

A favourite snack amongst the carnivorous population, encouraging the Dryosaurus to hide itself away from what it can't outrun, within the safety of its burrow.

golden coral
lament cloak
languid frost
#

Not really, I took 2 screens from legacy and evrima to compare, there's like 40cm difference compared to a door, so yeah utah in game is that small

grave veldt
#

idk on trello it said something about it hiding in its burrow

#

so

languid frost
#

And no utah isn't accurate, utah height to the hips is the height in game ones have to the head

#

And they were more than 1m longer than the game utah

#

Legacy utah was accurate , evrima one is just JP raptor

slim dragon
#

Huh, strange

lament cloak
slim dragon
#

I wouldn't charge a kentro XD
But I understand what you mean, you're right it's back is better armed than its front

grave veldt
#

i think blunk abilities will work best on kentro

#

things like pachys ram or carno charge

lament cloak
#

kinda hard to explain for me, partly because I suck at explaining but it makes sense in my head. TI_HypsiShrug

languid frost
#

I would be happy if they change the name to dakotaraptor for example keeping it like it is, but utah should be bigger and stronger, prolly slower to, that would be a good addition for the game, limiting the group size to carno group for example

slim dragon
#

They could rename it so we can hope to get an actual utahraptor in the game :D

lament cloak
wheat field
slim dragon
grave veldt
#

accurate utah cant jump all that well was much more bulky and not sure how fast it rly would be

slim dragon
#

It's slow, not very agile and way too small compared to other carnivores
It would struggle against a carno, and couldn't fight nor run away from an allo

#

I think accurate utah is theorized to be around 30 km/h

grave veldt
#

i might be able to see accurate dakota working but idk

languid frost
#

Well then they should give an accurate utah, lowering speed, making it heavier and bulkier, smaller groups, something we can feel as a real utah, the current one could stay as dakota for those who prefer speed and higher jumps

slim dragon
#

But as I said, it would die

grave veldt
#

no it would just die

slim dragon
#

Irl utahraptor was the biggest predator in its environment

#

In the Isle it's not

grave veldt
#

carno would kill accurate utah its too bulky to be super swift and agile

lament cloak
#

accurate utah would die, just let us put on feathers and call it a day

slim dragon
#

It would need some special ability like hypsi

languid frost
#

30-40km/h I think but being bulkier and stronger wouldn't be an issue, and being able to pounce too

grave veldt
#

thats a major issue

#

teno is faster then utah now

languid frost
#

But an accurate utah pounce could leave a carno almost dead

slim dragon
#

Accurate Utah couldn't pounce

grave veldt
#

aacurate

languid frost
#

Is it faster, the one chasing me some days ago couldn't catch me

grave veldt
#

^ yes what bub said

lament cloak
#

if we are being accurate a utah couldn't pounce like ours does

grave veldt
#

why r u reacting to comments lol just speak

#

also idk why ur X'ing it it would be a major issue

languid frost
#

Maybe not pounce like current one, but able to jump and grab or put something its own size to the ground

grave veldt
#

30-40 utah speed wouldnt survive in the isle

languid frost
#

That one was a mistake lol, I'm using my left hand 😂

grave veldt
#

where ur right hand TI_monkaS

slim dragon
#

don't ask

languid frost
#

Maybe not @grave veldt

#

Hahaha hurt, I almost cut my thumb working

grave veldt
#

lol

slim dragon
#

The idea of the stomping land to get austroraptors to fill the fast and agile predator niche was nice...

#

But we're getting both utah and austro in The Isle

#

So they would be clones

grave veldt
#

well

#

atleast autro is semi aquatic

#

provides a different gameplay experience

slim dragon
#

Yes that is a good thing

#

I hope it will be able to hunt on land too tho
Could make for some competition to utahraptor

#

Not as strong nor as tanky, but it might have something else to its advantage

languid frost
#

Another reason to make utah stronger, even if it's the same than now, but able to survive more damage at least, or to give proper fights like legacy's one

grave veldt
#

Well it has water to its advantage

#

Lol

slim dragon
#

(I'd say more speed but for that Austro would need to be really, really fast)

grave veldt
#

Austro doesn’t need to be super fast on land although I can see it being faster then Utah

languid frost
#

Agree

slim dragon
#

Current evrima Utah is 50 km/h, right ?

#

And Carno is 56

hollow canyon
#

52km/h Utahraptor and 61.7km/h Carno@slim dragon

grave veldt
#

Carno is 61. Something

languid frost
#

That's the importance to give devs suggestions and feedback about balance, even if they don't do it in the end 😂

slim dragon
#

Bruh that's fast

grave veldt
#

Yea carno is fast

slim dragon
#

And when charging ?

hollow canyon
#

Dryo is 55km/h atm iirc, Tenonto is 45km/h

languid frost
#

Yeah, it's like a bull with a rocket in the ass

hollow canyon
#

We don't know Carno's speed when it charges

#

It's not public knowledge

#

Tbh I doubt even QA know how fast it moves exactly

slim dragon
#

Oh, and does anyone know the sprinting flight speed of ptera ? Because from my experience it's faster than carno

languid frost
#

I think 61 is charging, a little bit slower running normal

grave veldt
#

Yes it is faster then o carno when it sprints but we have no idea how fast it is

#

Guesstimates is what we can do for ptera when it flies fast

hollow canyon
#

61.7km/h is the running speed of a Carnotaurus. Charging is faster than that

languid frost
#

Really? Ffs and they said it doesn't need a nerf on something else, totally unkillable cause just needs to run to survive, even with the stam nerf it doesn't matter if its only competitor uses most stam to pounce

#

And even less if misses the pounce lol

slim dragon
#

Utah isn't supposed to hunt carno tho

#

What carno has to fear are bigger things that can kill it by ambushing it
Like deino

hollow canyon
#

Utah isn't supposed to hunt Carno yea. Atm Carno is vulnerable to Deinosuchus and to a certain extent to Tenontosaurus. Utah isn't meant to be hunting it.

#

That's kind of like Giga hunting Rex in the legacy - it's doable kind of but the odds are stacked against you.

slim dragon
#

Carno absolutely needs that super-speed to catch things on the other hand, because it needs to catch up with small prey and is not strong enough to fight other dinos its size

languid frost
#

I don't say it's supposed to hunt it, but a single carno almost can wipe out 5 utahs attacking by surprise, even if the other 4 stand up and fight, some fail the pounce due to carno's speed, others can bite it but taking way more damage, and even if one lands a pounce just needs to buck and it's done. That happened some days ago, we killed it but only one of us had enough stam and health to chase it and finish it, 2 died, 2 were outta stam and almost dead

#

That isn't balanced at all

#

5 utahs should easily kill a carno, 4 too, 3 harder but should he able too

slim dragon
#

Carno is literally a counter to Utah

languid frost
#

And rn groups are 5 v 8, how is it supposed to be balanced lmao

slim dragon
#

No number of utahs should be able to easily take one down

languid frost
#

Yeah a counter, as I said they're competitors and carno has advantage, that's obvious, and I get it's needed to kill utahs easier rn due to the lack of bigger carnivores

slim dragon
#

No, they're not competitors. Carno is meant to hunt utahs.

languid frost
#

Well I don't agree with that, utahs are just easy preys rn, shouldn't be like that

slim dragon
#

They can always run off in the forest

#

Or, as everyone always say : jump over a river, jump on a rock, or just abuse carnos bad agility and juke them until they're out of stam

sudden orbit
#

Just because utah has the ability to jump doesn't mean they are safe. Getting away from a carno is possible but rather tedious at times. Why wouldn't a big pack of utahs be able to hunt a carno? it's silly that it shouldn't. With that logic full packs of carnos shouldn't be able to attack a stego or a deino, but they do and they win.

#

Favoritism towards carno is strong and people seem to hate utah for legacy reasons of them sitting around and chatting or something idk

wheat field
#

The reason you think their not even is because you are only taking combat abilities into account

#

Utah has infinite amount of escape options with its jumping and stamina

sudden orbit
#

Oh I am very well aware 2 utahs can kill a carno if skilled enough. I am talking about him saying no amount of utahs should be able to take on a single carno

#

which is ridiculous

#

And escaping too, rocks and whatever

#

outjuking it

#

its possible ish

wheat field
#

Hell you can jump over a river. Carnos swim speed is slow af

sudden orbit
#

let me rephrase that. Its possible on very lucky terms and on a good day to kill a carno

#

Its not like 2v1 is a fair fight atm

#

But I agree Pyromaniac

#

escaping is fine, but you aren't always left with options to escape with

wheat field
#

Which leads to death unfortunately. If you can’t escape as a Utah when you are outmatched in Damage and Speed you’re practically done for

#

But that goes for every dino

sudden orbit
#

Yeah but that's not exactly the conversation tbh

wheat field
#

That being said Carno is quite literally meant to hunt Utah and other small tiers. So it’s obviously not gonna be a completely fair fight

sudden orbit
#

It should still be vulnerable when encountering a large pack of utahs. Right now two utahs could pounce it and it just kind of... runs off never to be seen again

slim dragon
sudden orbit
#

I might have misread then

#

I did personally very much enjoy in update 2, as it seemed a full pack of utahs was a fair match to a full pack of carnos if the utahs have enough skill

#

3v6 etc

#

but thats just me

#

I think the dynamic competition drove a lot of conflict. Carnos could be prey or predator and they kept trying to one up each other

#

it was a fun thing to watch and experience

wheat field
#

Update 2 gave me cancer with the pouncing glitches

sudden orbit
#

Which glitches?

#

Curious

wheat field
#

You would get stuck mid air and would have to relog or be pounced to fix it

#

When you pounced if you even so touched a tree you got stuck in it completely

sudden orbit
#

Wait really? I never have seen that

#

Weird

#

Oh, to fix my statement. Update 2.5 i guess

wheat field
#

Here i got a photo of a time it happened to me and this is quite amazing one of a kind

sudden orbit
#

i never actually played as part of update 2

#

but the next patch, I never saw those weird pounce things.

wheat field
sudden orbit
#

what in the world

wheat field
#

This one was when I pounced a carno and it led to me being stuck underwater not losing oxygen and being able to sit

sudden orbit
#

what the hell

#

that is cool as heck though gotta say

wheat field
#

It was pretty weird. Not to mention Carnos then were easy prey for utahs. Now with the pouncing Meta basically extinguished against carnos I wonder what will happen

sudden orbit
#

nothing really happens tbh. I just see carnos fearlessly body utahs even when they are outmatched because pounce is suicidal rn

languid frost
#

Same @sudden orbit it was balanced for then, just desync and glitches were a pain in the ass, but utahs had a chance against carnos as long as packs were withing the limits

#

But now they didn't just nerf the pounce but made it a death sentence no matter if you miss or latch. Yeah sure they nerfed a little bit carno, and? Each time they nerf carno utah is twice nerfed. Again don't misunderstand me, 2 utahs easily killing a carno wasn't balanced, fighting hard could be. Rn now not even 5 utahs can easily kill a carno. And forget the idea utah is just small game and a prey for carno. It is the way is done rn. Shouldn't cause utah characteristics are to counter big carnivores. I mean what's the purpose adding a playable dino with those abilities just to not being able to kill something bigger? Let this be like that and soon carno, cera or allo will be small game for everything bigger even if it's just slightly bigger. This game is becoming a "the biggest thing always should win" game

dim radish
# wheat field

Ahhhh the good ol' early days.
Where Utah's wouldn't swim but Tenos would, so Utah's just sat at the bottoms of rivers to heal their bleed safely

languid frost
#

That was before update 2 when rivers weren't even done lmao

#

Well not even bleeding

sinful cove
#

If you're a deino getting massacred by a stego now you're just bad

sudden orbit
#

Or... the stego has the advantage in most fights lol

#

Which is fine because it is the herbivore

dawn falcon
#

In most fights

#

Stegos have advantages on land

#

Which Deino is not specialized in

silent harness
#

hell its still surprisingly effective

dawn falcon
#

Yeah that’s because Deino can now bite through the ass of a stego and hit its head

#

But hey

#

atleast deinos are getting payback now

wheat field
#

DOWN WITH THE STEGO REBELLION!

dim crown
#

I have a different opinion about the hypsi, @alpine plover , i dont think hypsi, is anywhere near useless, its another "piece" very unique, very special and different.

alpine plover
#

@dusty fable

You do know that deino can easily kill a stego right?

#

Deino doesnt need a buff because you dont understand its mechanics

#

And why should "same growth = just as strong"? Thats legacy logic

#

niches exist

#

Deinos a ambush hunter, not a brawler, just stop attacking stegos when you dont know how to fight them

grave veldt
#

Are ppl still complaining about stegos?

#

Deino can literally kill stegos now because of stun and alt bite

wheat field
#

Deino Superior

old crag
#

I think ppl make the mistake of lunging full grown stegos still and wonder why they get whacked lol

vagrant mural
#

@fading pagoda you do realize that hypsi is supposed to be arboreal right? and that it making burrows is completely antithetical to that design philosphy

#

and iirc dryo is going to be able to invade/renovate burrows

fading pagoda
#

or do anything of the sort

vagrant mural
#

it is supposed

#

to climb

#

ik irl hypsi was once thought to climb and that it was disproved a while ago

fading pagoda
#

disregard what i said about burrowing

vagrant mural
#

currently the climbing system for hypsi isn't in order because funni devs, but climbing will be actually introduced once herra comes out

fading pagoda
#

i really hope that they will implement that

vagrant mural
#

they will

fading pagoda
#

ok thats good to hear

#

but i feel that what i said about the semi auto aim is still justified

#

@vagrant mural

#

and i still feel that hypsi should be faster than teno

vagrant mural
#

what do you mean by semi-auto aim, like it somewhat locks on for you, or it helps guide the projectile

fading pagoda
#

or something similar to that

vagrant mural
#

hypsi is pretty fast for its size, but its stubby little legs are not going to carry it as fast as a runner like teno

fading pagoda
#

but tons of smaller creatures out run larger ones

#

i feel it would make sense

vagrant mural
#

at that point you can just aim it yourself, a hypsi is usually aiming for the spit, and its a decent tradeoff, you miss, you give your rough position away and lose some hunger, you hit, you get a complete blind, although I do think the hitbox and duration could use a buff

fading pagoda
#

what im saying is that when you are in a high speed chase, and the enemy already knows your position, you are too slow to out run them, and it's too difficult to hit the spit

vagrant mural
#

yeah smaller creatures ourtun bigger ones but there's only something so small as hypsi can do, again teno is somewhat of a travelling animal, its going to run pretty fast and far for its size, hypsi is quick and incredibly stealthy, but like it takes 10 hypsi steps to take one dryo (a somewhatcomparable animal) step, even if it is fast for its size it simply can't compete with some things speed and stride length

#

juke em, lose em, or go to a high spot

fading pagoda
#

maybe just buffing the hitbox of the spit like you said would satisfy me

vagrant mural
#

hypsi is so small it can disappear in normal grass fairly easy, its turn rate is a bit garbage for its size for some reason tho, so that could use a change, and again by making hypsi a runner you kind of draw away from the idea of it being arboreal

fading pagoda
#

like maybe instead of hitting square in the face it could be in the neck or somth idk

lament cloak
#

honestly making hypsi spit a cone of spit instead of a line of spit would do it wonders

vagrant mural
fading pagoda
#

omg piggy you are a genius

#

you just resolved this debate in a single sentence

marble pond
#

Cone like a tight shotgun spread or cone like 45 degree angles out? If they're going to make it a cone, it better have a shorter range.

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I've heard you can knock pteranodons out of the sky with it. Don't need to make it easier to aim if people are going to use it to make others miserable for no reason. There's already enough of that sanctioned by the game lol

fading pagoda
#

And yes the range should be shorter

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If it is a cone

granite gate
#

if they remove the ability for it to knock pteras out of the sky, there shouldnt be anything wrong with keeping the range the same

fading pagoda
#

It having a shorter range and a cone would make it more useful in defense situations, and it would decrease the amount of meaningless trolls

fading pagoda
granite gate
#

kinda dumb that it can knock pteras out, it’s a fucking 90kg bird. blindness? fine. downing it is dumb as hell

fading pagoda
#

It doesn't way much

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I agree with you

granite gate
#

yeh

fading pagoda
#

Yeah either make it a cone and decrease the range, or make it a cone and have it not knock Pteras out of the air

marble pond
#

45 degrees strikes me as a rather extreme spread for an ability like this.

fading pagoda
#

Like maybe just extend the hitbox of the line

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Make It easier to land

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Just make the spray wider

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Or maybe make the spit more like a belch that shoots a blob of acid that on contact with a physical object explodes in a balanced radius or trajectory

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If the hypsi spray is like a circular spray rather than a line, and once it can climb trees, it finally might be viable

lament cloak
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45 degrees is way too much, even just a 10-15 degree cone would actually make hypsi spit worth using when not trolling

fading pagoda
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Literally just extending the hitbox into a circular round shaped cone projectile no matter how large it is would be an improvement

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Because the ability is completely worthless when not trolling

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If you are ever in an "advantagous" position for you to use the spray, I can almost guarantee than running away would be the more logical thing to do

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As If the enemy moves by a pixel, you miss and give away your position

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Which is almost practically an instant death for you

hollow canyon
#

Wait? Hypsi can knock Pteras out of the sky by spitting on them? That's... interesting but honestly very niche. Is it even something that happens at all considering how difficult Hypsi's special ability is to aim? I have to say that even if it does knock out Pteras I don't see it as a problem, whatever makes flying animal less safe in the air is a win in my book.

granite gate
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it’s fine as it is rn, we’re saying it shouldnt knock them out of the air if aiming is made easier

fading pagoda
#

Yeah

granite gate
#

plus it would be a bit op for an instantly-grown hypsi to be able to (essentially) insta-kill a ptera that takes an hour to grow

dim crown
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Aiming doesnt need 2 be made easier.

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For hypsi

fading pagoda
#

If the hotbox is made larger by making it a cone, it shouldn't knock them out of the air, because it would be too easy, and people would do it all the time to be rude

fading pagoda
#

Lmao

dim crown
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TI

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U just dont have imagination.

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But ur not alone....

fading pagoda
#

I'm just busting chops my dude

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But In my opinion the spray is useless in situations that it should not be useless in

dim crown
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Well im talking about balance for hypsi.

fading pagoda
#

Its way too hard to use when in a high speed chase

sinful cove
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It's simple fact that hypsi's spit is a poorly made defensive ability, yes you can use it offensively but that is not its intended primary purpose

dusky surge
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hypsi sucks ass the fuck do you mean

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dryo, hypsi and stego all need love

dim crown
dusky surge
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hypsi most of all

dim crown
dusky surge
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hypsi's defence sucks lmao

dim crown
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No

dusky surge
#

it forces him to STAND STILL to shoot his acid

fading pagoda
# dim crown Like what? Examples plz

First of all literally everything outspeeds you except Ptera and deino, second the hitbox is way too small to constistantly hit a moving target, 3, hypsi can do nothing except run and spray so for it to be this bad is really upsetting

dusky surge
#

while trying to hit a chasing target

sinful cove
#

Hypsi is supposed to be able to blind approaching predators and make an escape, at the moment it is suicidal to spit at something that is already pursuing you

fading pagoda
fading pagoda
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That's why they need to make it into a cone to constistantly hit moving targets and fulfill its purpose

dusky surge
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the best way to use hypsi's spit is to run up to a predator rather than run away (already bad), while the predator is pre-occupied with drinking or eating (i.e. not chasing you) and shoot it in the eyes. The best way to use this "defence" ability is to use it offensively in specific scenarios where the hypsi would be better off running away and making distance

fading pagoda
#

Because right now it's only use is to troll people

sinful cove
#

Hypsi spit is only useable to snipe unsuspecting dinos who aren't attacking you or to mix pack and blinding enemies distracted by your allies

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Neither if these were the intended primary purpose as far as i know

fading pagoda
dusky surge
fading pagoda
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Once hypsi can climb and as long as they buff the spray it will be really fun

dusky surge
#

yea

sinful cove
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Is hypsi planned to have actual climbing mechanics?