That's what I'm sayin'.
#balance-feedback-discussion
lament turtle
Without that stun
The stego would win.
It's a very
"Down to the wire" thing.
Like
Gimme a sec.
For reference
This was the amount of health left after tanking a stego
But
It does guarantee a stego kill.
Which is silly imo.
lament turtle
You shouldn't be stunning things and then completely screwing them over in such a short time ESPECIALLY as an apex, which is why I don't like the way it works right now. I still think Deino should be the semi aquatic menace that he is, but, he shouldn't be guaranteed a stego kill.
Ye
grave veldt
ye guarenteed kills of the same tier shouldnt be a thing
lament turtle
Ye, I'd honestly say it's fine if it were more skill based, but, it's not. It's just right clicking and then spam biting.
lament turtle
Ye, it's likely it'll get much more popular.
full ocean
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deep escarp
Doesn’t that tell you something?
full ocean
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deep escarp
Couldn’t say I’ve never played legacy
I enjoy fighting stegos and I think they should be pretty strong which they are. Only issue I have is the tail hit box seems to be a bit broken.
full ocean
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deep escarp
Yea that to
full ocean
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golden coral
With the hitbox change, deino is pretty solid now i think.
deep escarp
I think server lag is also a huge part in the hit box.
full ocean
I think server lag is also a huge part in the hit box.
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deep escarp
Exactly, hard to fix something around a laggy game.
But it’s horrible when as a raptor you pounce on a stego and they just spam tail swing, as soon as you jump off you are dead even if they hit you in the tail.
deep escarp
No it’s just the tail lmao
Today I jumped off a stego and was way out of it’s reach or at least should of been, but it clipped my tail and one shot me from it.
Next time I will try record it.
golden coral
Maybe there needs to be a better jump off for more distance using extra stamina or something, but in return I think there needs to be more danger in using the pounce, especially vs large and slow prey. It's all good with the stun, when the target is actually capable of juking, but otherwise
deep escarp
Pounce is so bad these days, it’s easier and better to just bite and bleed them out most times now.
golden coral
Could be some lag/latency then, but with the hitbox change, if the attack covers more of your body, it'll count that, so no more tailtanking at least
deep escarp
It’s super risky in the first place since the pounce hit box seems to be a lot smaller than it used to be so it can miss WAY easier than it used to, which is fine but if you miss vs a good player you are 100% dead. Then on top of that every Dino can now buck us off and even if we jump off our selfs we get stuck in a slow animation where most dinos can just hit us, which as a raptor takes half or more of your hp most times. On top of that your Stan drains sooooo much now from attempting to pounce and biting. So yea there is a lot of risk involved.
golden coral
Depends on your target. You're making it out to be far more difficult than it really is.
deep escarp
Yea it does
golden coral
Though I do think a normal dismount should allow a utah to hit the ground running, so it can get away without being hit, unless you're being watched and timed.
deep escarp
Vs stegos the dismount is the problem
golden coral
That way you're only getting oneshot by a stego if it can afford to specificially watch you, something it really shouldn't if there's a pack going at it.
Since that leaves the entire other side + head open, if you're trying to just wait for one utah to get off.
deep escarp
Vs carnos ect I think it’s fine since if you miss the pounce it’s your own fault but I feel you missing one pounce shouldn’t mean you should just die off it.
golden coral
Nah, let the utah start running immediately, that way you get out of range, unless you're being specifically targetted. But again, with a pack that stego would lose more than it would gain if it just tries to wait one utah out.
deep escarp
That way you're only getting oneshot by a stego if it can afford to specificiall...
We had a pack today me and two other jumped on it, it sat and spammed tail swing until we had to jump off then it one shot two of us on the one side.
golden coral
You can actually hit more than one at the same time? Even so, point still stands, if you could start running immediately, then you'd be less likely to be hit unless you're being watched.
deep escarp
The thing is as a Utah you can’t just go at a stego lmao
golden coral
You can, but I would suggest needing 4+ utahs to give it a try.
deep escarp
You get 1 shot by the tail
golden coral
As it should be really, pack for big prey, trying with anything less than 5-6 should not be viable really.
Still requires you to be hit, and I did say the utah should hit the ground running, thus minimizing that risk unless the utah is being specifically targetted, which means all the others get away perfectly fine. Not a good trade for the stego at that point.
deep escarp
We have killed multiple stegos with 3 people even 2. I know how to fight a stego the problem is being hit while dismounting and not being able to do anything about it takes away any skill.
supple mauve
^
golden coral
Yes and the fact that you can kill them like that is the problem
full ocean
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golden coral
When it really should take 5-6 minimum to have a fair chance
full ocean
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supple mauve
if you have 2-3 people its pretty much a toss up who wins in most fights as a Utah
deep escarp
It’s a game
full ocean
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full ocean
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golden coral
I agree that it shouldn't be a guaranteed hit while dismounting no matter what, again let utah hit the ground running, that way you're only liable to get hit if the stego is specifically watching you, which means it's open to the rest completely. That will not be a good trade for the stego.
It's not so much an issue that you can get hit while dismounting, as how easy it is to get that hit and the tradeoff for the guaranteed kill of one utah.
full ocean
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supple mauve
or be able to push away from who youre pouncing
deep escarp
Saying you should pack hunt is fine and it should take so and so many to kill stuff isn’t really great. I’ve solo’ed a fully grown caro as a Utah does that mean carno needs buffs? No just means he wasn’t as good.
golden coral
Well, you'd have to compare two good players of course.
But if the carno and you are both very good, then you should lose as a solo utah.
supple mauve
and you do
full ocean
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supple mauve
full grown carno can kill you in 1/2 bites and the stego almost always kills you in 1 hit
full ocean
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supple mauve
anf them having a guaranteed attack after you use your signature ability is kinda booty
golden coral
Maybe if they fixed the slots on pounce, it would be slightly more dangerous vs a stego.
deep escarp
I just think from my experience today vs a stego that if I jump on a stego and they just spam hit, I jump off and get 1 hit mid dismount for 100% of my hp isn’t fun and needs fixing imo.
supple mauve
^ i agree
golden coral
I mean, yes and no Toxxin. I feel that if you pounce as a solo utah on a stego, you should not be able to get off safely. Why? Because the stego can focus you down safely. That's part of why you have a pack, to provide distractions and all.
supple mauve
why would they be able top get a guaranteed hit?
when they can 1 shot you if they hit you
golden coral
Because they can focus you and time you to when you jump off
Since there's nothing else to worry about if you're solo
supple mauve
guaranteed is a bit of a stretch
golden coral
It's the same as if you were to pounce a rex solo, it'll take it, let you jump off, then turn and chomp you.
full ocean
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supple mauve
thats what im saying the pounce needs some polishing
golden coral
Yes, and A, I personally don't like the speedy jab, and B, again, fix the dismount speed. That way it'll be a very small window to hit you.
deep escarp
And even if there was a full pack around they still just spam tail swing, no other Utah’s can do anything they will just get 1 shot if they try to help, they are more so as a distraction but they just spam tail swing so they don’t care who’s around them lmao
supple mauve
i dont think you should be able to be punished for using your signature ability that you only get when youre at 100% for some reason
golden coral
If that window is very tiny because you can land and start running immediately, sure, a stego spamming that one side will get you. Meanwhile, the other four utahs on the other side of the stego is pouncing/chomping away at the head.
I think the reason the utah only get pounce at full grown has to do with animations or something
supple mauve
i mean you should be able to be punished ofc but not guaranteed
i agree that you should have to time it
golden coral
There's some reason for why it doesnt work/is hard to work at lower growth. It did have pounce from young adult earlier.
At one point at least
supple mauve
no it only works at 100%
deep escarp
I agree with toxin yes they should be able to punish you from it, but not 100% you from it.
And that’s not even for missing the pounce that’s from hitting it.
golden coral
And even if there was a full pack around they still just spam tail swing, no oth...
And if the stego is tailspamming in one direction, entire other side + head is open? Sounds to me like that stego is asking for more pounces/bites. And if it's not bucking either, then there's no defense for said pounces.
deep escarp
They don’t have to buck, our stam drains so quick these days they don’t care xd
supple mauve
then again its a really big animal being pounced by a much ssmaller and lighter animal
takes 4 full pounces to even get a stego low
lets not even talk about deinosuchus lmao
deep escarp
I killed a adult croc the other day while he was afk. Took me over 30 headshots think that says it all.
supple mauve
theyre super tanky and they can do the most damage in the game
full ocean
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deep escarp
Who was solo pack hunting?
full ocean
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supple mauve
were not talking solo
deep escarp
Yea but you said solo
supple mauve
even lets say a apack of 4
full ocean
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deep escarp
We had 12 today
full ocean
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deep escarp
Nope
full ocean
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golden coral
takes 4 full pounces to even get a stego low
And it should take at least 6.
deep escarp
We only had I think 5 fully grown
full ocean
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deep escarp
Two got killed mid air dismounting
full ocean
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deep escarp
The other got hit 1x and that’s them out of the fight for 30 mins while they heal up
full ocean
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golden coral
No idea what kind of hit that was.. :p
full ocean
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deep escarp
I think you are missing the point
full ocean
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supple mauve
i mean if its 12v1 i dont see why you would lose many people...
full ocean
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supple mauve
should be a rather quick kill
full ocean
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golden coral
I mean, Dondi basically said "takes 20 utahs vs one rex, and you'll lose half the pack anyway"
full ocean
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golden coral
While I do agree getting a guaranteed hit on dismount sucks, I'm not sure how to fix that without making it too safe the other way. Before hitbox change, you'd just tailtank, and there was nothing the stego could do to actually get you to go away unless a lucky hit when attempting to pounce, and that's so much on the utahs so.
Maybe if stego had proper moving attacks and better swings in general, it'd be a lot better to let utahs jump off safely, since then the stego could actually do something in the engagement :p
deep escarp
They can buck
supple mauve
ok but i killed a adult carno as a baby stego in 2 hits :/
i literally avoid stegos for this reason alone
full ocean
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supple mauve
i see a stego i go the other way
full ocean
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deep escarp
Haha I’ve seen many adult Utah’s die to baby stego they think because they are small it’s fine to face tank them, then rip.
golden coral
They can buck
That doesn't fix the issues I'm talking about at all.
And yes, baby stego OP :p
Should at least have to be juvie to be somewhat scary, hatchling has little nubs for thagomizer :p
full ocean
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golden coral
Not anymore it isn't?
full ocean
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golden coral
Pretty sure they fixed it in this latest patch, it shouldn't be OP anymore
Not that weight matters there anyway
full ocean
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supple mauve
their tail isnt spiky and their tail also doesnt weigh half as much as a juvie or adolecent
umbral inlet
Should at least have to be juvie to be somewhat scary, hatchling has little nubs...
Not to mention the fact that Utah’s don’t get their pounce until they are full grown. There needs to be fair compensation for that in the form of a flawlessly working pounce which doesn’t desync and land you somewhere you did not intend.
supple mauve
we were just talking about that
golden coral
I think the reason for strong stego juvie was because it cant run or do anything, and that's fine, but strength should be in relation to the other juvies/subs, not fully grown adults. But stegos and quads need a "crouch" instead.
trim ginkgo
There was a kick off suggestion made by Rend. An idea could be that Utah can take about 10-20% stamina to perform a jump off.(Maybe jumping farther away but still enough to get a tail hit or body hit? Could put % in there, 65% tail hit and 35% body hit chance).
If you aren’t watching your stamina essentially you just get messed up. At least that’s what I gathered from it, and I made up some numbers there.
golden coral
So you can move around while being stealthy, like the others can with crouch
golden coral
Not to mention the fact that Utah’s don’t get their pounce until they are full g...
Lack of desync and all that would be nice for all playables really.
golden coral
There was a kick off suggestion made by Rend. An idea could be that Utah can tak...
Eh, not a fan of RNG. Just make it a guaranteed get off safely then if you use the kick off. Or at least enough distance that barring anything else, at best you'd get a tailtip hit, or maybe base of the tail, but even so.
deep escarp
There was a kick off suggestion made by Rend. An idea could be that Utah can tak...
Imo that would cost you to much stam and no one would use it.
supple mauve
i mean yeah after one pounce youd be practically useless
not saying youre not atm lol
golden coral
But maybe fixed slots and possibly a knockback if the target is moving, might help vs slower stuff. You'd have to either get a proper ambush or "convince" the target to stop moving so you can pounce properly.
supple mauve
just the other way you wouldnt be dead and useless
deep escarp
It cost like 30% to even pounce and hit then more stam to keep on them. By the time you jump off you would be left with what 10% stam if you are lucky to run away with.
trim ginkgo
It doesn’t seem like that much?
From my experience anyways. Me and some others tried for about an hour to figure out how to counter the Steg tail hit, at that point I wondered about aiming hop offs.
Stego swings towards its head so if you jump off near there and it times it’s jab right it looks like a tail shot maybe.
supple mauve
one other thing is that most of the time i play in my experience at least im with 1 or 2 other raptors sometimes 3 and we get shit on by pretty much anything bigger than us
i guess that could be my own fault though
golden coral
It cost like 30% to even pounce and hit then more stam to keep on them. By the ...
I have no idea what you've been doing, but that's nowhere near from my own experience. Pouncing barely does anything on stam, and it drains very slowly unless the target is bucking?
deep escarp
Our group most of the time we run around killing most stuff, I’d like to think we are pretty decent at the game. Before we died to the stego today we had killed like 7 carnos, 3 tenos, some crocs. Then we got one shot while dismounting a stego YEY!
supple mauve
doesnt help that 40% of all servers are Deinos lmao
golden coral
one other thing is that most of the time i play in my experience at least im wit...
You're barely half a pack. I'd say that sounds reasonable honestly.
supple mauve
you gotta teach me how to play the game @deep escarp 
trim ginkgo
Were the Carnos all packed into one pack?
deep escarp
you gotta teach me how to play the game <@!273143536856203274> <:omegalol:37719...
Don’t be greedy when hunting stuff down I would say is the biggest tip, which goes for your whole pack.
trim ginkgo
And if they were then what growth,,
deep escarp
The best part when playing a Utah is when you get ANY Dino low and they know they are going to die so they run in the river so we can’t eat them. Like no one can die with honor these days.
golden coral
Pray there are no deinos and go in to get it :p
deep escarp
You can’t
golden coral
What do you mean you can't?
deep escarp
We can’t eat while swimming, can’t drag big stuff.
golden coral
But you can grab chunks out of it if it's too big to drag
deep escarp
Not while swimming
golden coral
You can swim out and grab chunks, so you'll still get your food
Maybe not to you, but there's a mechanic there to prevent food denial so :p
deep escarp
Maybe people need to stop crying and throwing themselves in rivers because they lost a fight xd
It’s mostly carnos that do it tbf
golden coral
The mechanic is there precisely because people do at times do that, so you can still get food
So.. you have a way to deal with it
deep escarp
The thing is they throw themselves at crocs just so we can’t eat them.
If you get lucky and there are no crocs around then sure it’s whatever but you still have to risk just getting grabbed by a croc and dying. That’s after having to grind to kill just 1 carno or something. It’s just a pussy move and I’m more so just calling people out for it rather than saying it needs fixing or anything xd
golden coral
Fair enough, but they can do so, and at least it gives the crocs food :p So Im sure they're not complaining ^^
umbral inlet
https://isle.fandom.com/wiki/Pteranodon
So apparently they had a decent control system in game and they effed it up.
golden coral
How so? Mind you, I've not been ptera much, but from what I know it felt okay at least?
supple mauve
i think the flying system in game is really nice
golden coral
I saw your feedback, why not just change the keybinds?
supple mauve
ive played ptera a fair bit
golden coral
You might be right that the basic controls are off, but you can easily change everything around, so I don't know, just do that?
supple mauve
if you dont mind reiterating what his gripes were with the original controls were? I'm not aware
golden coral
Just look in the feedback :p
supple mauve
oh lol idk i find that z is an okay keybind for speedbrake.
im used to pressing that button from shooters and stuff ive played to go prone etc. I find it easy to reach with my thumb
golden coral
It's fine if you don't like the keybinds that's fine, but you can change them around, so I'm not sure it's an issue really
umbral inlet
I saw your feedback, why not just change the keybinds?
I want to. Problem is, there’s just one key bind that has not option to change, and that’s Z. If we could just swap Z and X in keybinds, problem solved. Speed break is notoriously non intuitive to use in tandem with other controls when mapped to Z.
umbral inlet
You might be right that the basic controls are off, but you can easily change ev...
Yep I am right. Notice how the article says that W and S are supposed to control pitch while gliding? But they don’t, and it’s frustrating in flight.
Regarding Z, which key is easier to press with more fingers, Z, or X? Isn’t it X that’s easier to get at? So it makes sense to use X as speed brake for this reason too. Succinctly put, the key bind for flight wasn’t thought through as carefully as I would have preferred.
golden coral
@umbral inletI don't know. I could change my airbrake without issue?
I also figured out how to change tennos alt attacks to normal, and vice versa :p
umbral inlet
Woah you did? Where? Teach me your ways! Lol
supple mauve
so can I, also I think the way that they implemented W in flight is more intuitive than having it control your pitch, by way of analogue
golden coral
I got my airbrake on < if I recall correctly, since I also use it for crouch, instead of ctrl.
supple mauve
all you have to do is press W and point in which direction you want to move
umbral inlet
Dude I love you forever if you can help me figure this out
golden coral
@umbral inletHave you removed the saved folder from appdata and all that?
And I honestly don't know.. all I know is I have all the keybinds and I can change whatever I see fit from what I know.
golden coral
Do pteras have a secondary attack?
Or do they just have primary/alt primary?
@umbral inletunder actions. Should be a "airbrake" keybind there
And go remve that folder and all that first, maybe it'll show up then
Need to go try and see if using airbrake with RMB works now
umbral inlet
so can I, also I think the way that they implemented W in flight is more intuiti...
I disagree and this is why. If while gliding, you pitch up, it acts as a speed brake of sorts, very intuitive to use. You turn ur body into a wind sail/brake and catch the wind basically. Or you can alter your pitch to catch breezes or thermals etc. extremely useful for landings and precision flying. I am a flight sim pilot tho so I’m used to having hair done control of my craft and multiple aerodynamic options for maneuver. So the current model is woefully lacking in the dynamics of what is possible as a powered glider animal/craft.
Ok I’m deleting the saved folder now.
umbral inlet
Do pteras have a secondary attack?
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
No homo
golden coral
I take it you got it to work? All good then!
supple mauve
I'm also a flight sim pilot, in fact I just finished flying a sortie in an F-14. But all in all I'm flying as a bird not controlling a machine. I think the way they implemented flying is alot more geared toward the typical player which I like.
umbral inlet
I take it you got it to work? All good then!
Yeah bro sure did! Lots of different stuff here too... looks like my menu works now too
umbral inlet
I'm also a flight sim pilot, in fact I just finished flying a sortie in an F-14....
Yes I agree it is mucc more geared towards the typical player! From one flight sim pilot to another, this fact is what makes you like it and me dislike it! Haha!
supple mauve
At least you got it to work the way you wanted to 😄
umbral inlet
Yep! And it turns out, my speed brake wasn’t working at all before. I was wrong about my complete hatred of the flight model.
supple mauve
😂
wraith spindle
I find it weird that, Pteranodon grows so fast when it has basically the highest survivability in the game, even as freshly spawned, and Deino grows at an absolutely comically slow rate, when it, on the other hand, is practically unplayable until its near fully grown.
dim radish
Well I mean Ptera dies to everything and can't fight
ripe zinc
it doesn't need to fight, it can fly
dim radish
Yeah so who cares if Ptera grows fast?
Haven't seen a single person, unless it's a hypsi who doesn't grow at all, die to a Ptera before
sullen dock
its a nice dinosaur for those who sorta keep to themselves and im fine with that - if it needs any sort of balancing later it will get it
but rn its fine, they just sorta vibe
dusky surge
pteras dont have any real impact on the ecosystem unless we're talking fish, they can really be considered herbivores due to how non-aggressive they are
dim radish
They just vibe, turn into pancakes if they fly into a rock too hard and eat anything they can get their little, grubby hands on
proud anchor
Can I get some constructive critiques on the Deino suggestion I made in #balance-feedback?
It's a very simple change, but would make pressuring a Deino out of a land-dominance situation where it crawls on it's belly for 500 meters and takes your kill, essentially uncontested much more balanced for land-dominant packs.
@proud swan first off, wrong chat.
Second off, no.
proud swan
We can disagree all week
Make the Deimos hit box actually hit something. Make that attack faster then you can add stamina. Until then. Nope
proud anchor
Nah. It does hit often. If your server is telling you otherwise, you must be missing intentionally.
proud swan
We’re done being ‘constructive’. 😂
proud anchor
I'm*
But okay.
I stand by the issue. If there is a problem with the hurtbox, then fix that too, but also change the land-based combat to stamina drain moving all that mass around.
If all other attacks do so, and this one causes massive damage, then it should reflect other's drawbacks as well.
Stego loses stam. I rest my case.
old hull
We’re done being ‘constructive’. 😂
i want to slap you
golden coral
I don't think that's helpful.. :p
old hull
it is when they want landcrocs to be viable , when they kinda are already which is another problem altogether
proud anchor
A little too viable, if you think about it critically. Moving 8 tons of mass around without a stamina penalty is an overbalance issue.
Especially when the baseline of Alt attacking is generally considered to be a special type of attack.
(I think it was an oversight, honestly.)
Alls that this would cause is a counter to it's land viability, since it shouldn't be that viable, it's damage is deadly as-is, and a lot of people have concerns about that aspect, but this is only due to the inability to tire it out, outside of baiting it to sprint, however, even then that does nothing but limit it's lunge-grab, and ability to retreat.
Stamina cost would balance it to think twice about agressing larger packs, where it should be less viable in a solo-vs pack enviroment.
Couple two together, and they're basically invincible if they're competent enough.
Alligators actually tire easily. Apparently playing with them is enough to wear them out.
Cold blooded animals, actually.
Not sure if I'm allowed to post links, however.
ripe zinc
Deinos are horribly slow on land though, to the point everyone else can easily dodge their attacks or simply go elsewhere. How is the deino viable on land again?
final relic
@proud swan Reminder to always use the discussion channels to respond to others’ feedback.
proud anchor
Deinos are horribly slow on land though, to the point everyone else can easily d...
If I have to explain why it being an outlier for having unlimited stamina, the conversation will just repeat itself.
The only thing it has to do is not sprint.
ripe zinc
If I have to explain why it being an outlier for having unlimited stamina, the c...
none of the dinos use stamina for jogging around
ripe zinc
so what? it takes ages for the deino to turn around even with alt attack, just move out of the way
proud anchor
So, what you're saying is the croc should have unlimited attacks, where other dinos do not.
golden coral
All attacks should require stamina, and if you're out of it, they should do much less damage! :p
proud anchor
That's called imbalance. Sorry.
ripe zinc
I'm saying the croc is shit on land, and I don't see a reason to nerf it
proud anchor
Nerf? It's a general implementation of already implemented mechanics.
Again, this is a balance feedback discussion. Just because you like it's ability to attack infinitely, doesn't mean it should be the strongest in-game outlier that can 3shot a carno, and still have full stamina after the fight just because it didn't sprint.
ripe zinc
A carno shouldn't allow a land croc to hit it once, let alone 3 times lol
proud anchor
Uh-huh...
pine pelican
What about bites on legs being weak but if they manage to bite while drinking, to the neck then it's deadly, on bigger dinos?
proud anchor
Broken bones will be an issue soon.
I'm not sure that legs have a hitbox however. So, this would be a core mechanic implimentation.
pine pelican
Dinos that have drank within few seconds could be marked as vulnerable for neck attacks?
ripe zinc
What about bites on legs being weak but if they manage to bite while drinking, t...
croc can already grab drinking dinos and drown them, much cooler than an arbitrary damage buff when they're drinking
proud anchor
I'd say during their drinking animation would be more applicable, easier to deduce for the implimentaion.
pine pelican
Small ones but let's say similar size to their own since their damage is so debated, so I was thinking if this is a good idea
ripe zinc
up to 4 tons is not "small ones", imo
proud anchor
Right, that'd be an addition to the framework of the lunge, likely based on weight, however.. It would require all dinos receive more hitboxes like the Utah pounce points.
That's a bit of a tall order, since their damage compensates that need currently.
pine pelican
The drinking animation can be good but some players may stop drinking during the attack or idk about latency issues. Weight based sounds like good solution. Dinos are all different sizes as they grow
ripe zinc
apart from deino players who can't stand that there's a single playable character they can't insta-kill, or that they as an ambusher should rely on ambushing, I don't see much debate about the deino's damage
proud anchor
Well just like Wallowing, drinking should have a momentary animation for leaving the water.
However it'd have to be a VERY short animation. Carnos already suffer from a terrible turn time, they're the easiest targets atm.
Well, that and lumbering juvi Stegos.
I'm not rallying for nerfing damage, range, or force of the Deino's bite. I'm simply stating that it should require stamina like the others.
Everything else about it's attacks should see equal love, too.
Whether it be toning down, or raising up, its all about balance in the end.
ripe zinc
deino is in a good spot balance wise as is imo. It's absolute shite in a land battle, but it can make all but the very biggest land dinos very afraid of the water.
proud anchor
That's an opinion. For sure.
I have no issue rallying around a gator, however there are many players who play Deino because it's mindless in combat, and while it can't stand against people who understand the game backwards and forwards, it levies on the people who are able to effectively combat it singularly.
It should have a lot of push, and a lot of force. I'm not denying that. However, it should also tire, realistically, as well.
stuck nova
This is non sens, the deino got beaten by a carno wtf need balance, and the utha raptor as well is to much tanky than i, Legacy
In documentary at the TV allways telling that the crocodile as the most bite force of all animals, imagine is ancestors then ?
modest carbon
Deino should always have the disadvantage on land
modest carbon
In documentary at the TV allways telling that the crocodile as the most bite for...
Yes, but balance is required here. Otherwise deino would just one shot headshot literally everything, including other deinos.
proud anchor
In documentary at the TV allways telling that the crocodile as the most bite for...
Yes... and they tire very easily...
stuck nova
Deino should always have the disadvantage on land
Its not what is happening in game whe you have Carno jumping in water like nothing
modest carbon
Its not what is happening in game whe you have Carno jumping in water like nothi...
I can assure you that carnos can and will get drowned by deinos, they do fear water
proud anchor
Its not what is happening in game whe you have Carno jumping in water like nothi...
Are we really on the skill of players, and not the balance of the game right now..? I don't understand the purpose of this point.
modest carbon
100%, If a deino dies because it doesn't know how to use rmb that's on them
proud anchor
stuck nova
Are we really on the skill of players, and not the balance of the game right now...
its not the skills of player, they swiming to good for carnos, they are to fast in water
proud anchor
I feel like there is a Deino bias, and I don't really care for it, since we're on about skill.
modest carbon
its not the skills of player, they swiming to good for carnos, they are to fas...
Majority of first time deinos have no idea what they are doing, and carnos swim speed has already been reduced to slower than sin, if you die to a carno in a big ass river because you didn't swim away from its woodchipper bite ngl that's on you, don't blame the carnos stats
There's only so slow a carno swim can be reduced to, you can drag the carno underwater and drown it using RMB and you shouldn't be trading bites with carno on land because that's not deinos playstyle
ripe zinc
the carno is really slow in water and even a medium sized deino can pull a grown carno under, be serious
a carno is 1.8t, so a deino only has to be 3.6t (less than half the weight of a fully grown deino) to kill any swimming carno with ease with no chance of escape.
deep escarp
slim dragon
This is not a balance problem but bugged collision
golden coral
? :p
slim dragon
Well, assuming the red circles on this black screen are here to exrpess the fact that our beloved utah player here was some distance away from the adult stego that most likely killed it in one hit (since the opposite is pretty unlikely)
young tinsel
Are we really on the skill of players, and not the balance of the game right now...
People keep mixing up the two
Deino is perfectly balanced imo
People that say it is unbalanced are the ones that tease them at the shore line and then get dragged into the water, like you get what you deserved lol
deft folio
We missing the point Hypsi should one shot everything, and the spit should melt everything's face off, and should be able to jump across the map in one jump, that's the balance we need.
young tinsel
Based
desert wave
Let me guess, the invisible wall is the juvie Utahs hit box
deep escarp
Well, assuming the red circles on this black screen are here to exrpess the fact...
Was a friend of mine.
golden coral
But what issue are you trying to point out? That there's lag/desync?
deep escarp
The hit box on stego tail swing is broken
If the stego hits a raptor in the tail it shouldn’t be one shotting them.
deft folio
Want borked stuff, Hypsi spit is the same range as every carnivores bite and has been since added, an no sign of fixing the small dino's cause everyone wants to be the big dino's an feel like a boss so all the small are left to be broken.
golden coral
Hmm. No, not if it's an actual tailhit, but I'd have to see a recording to make sure of that.
deft folio
I get a lot of desync issues when it comes to combat, one second your out of range next your rubber banded back dead in the mouth from 50 feet.
I have noticed a lot of rubber banding when people get in range, then it smooths out until combat then it goes into rubber band mode so you can be far away an get hit cause of the weird combat desync.
umbral inlet
Yep
wide tulip
raptors are fucking nuts right now, the map is covered in them and they do INSANE bleed damage
@zenith lion would you like to debate my opinion there bud
wide tulip
Even if I am good, they still have a strong bleed
and with them growing like weeds
It's a tough mixture
zenith lion
shit health, shit recovery after failed pounce, shit recovery after getting down of a pounce
zenith lion
being able to one shot one to the head with the tail
zenith lion
i dont think they deserved a nerf because they have good bleed
deft folio
People flock to what they can win with if being a pack of Utah's is it then they will, if Hipsi spit acid that one shot things everyone would play it, that's how games an people thought patterns work.
zenith lion
literally the only thing they have besides mobility
wide tulip
they have their leap
and a strong pack
and it takes them no time at all to grow
EVERY hit they do bleeds
zenith lion
and a deino takes 2
the problem there is that the head multiplier in utah should be more for deino, but not the utah health
zenith lion
EVERY hit they do bleeds
of course, they are bleeders, they cant do more dmg with bites, they have to bleed you out
zenith lion
and it takes them no time at all to grow
because they are very easy to die to alomost anything
but a pack can kill almost anything
wide tulip
and bleeding is VERY strong against land animals
zenith lion
i dont see any issue with that tbh
wide tulip
it's not skill based
zenith lion
it has to be
zenith lion
it's not skill based
eh
zenith lion
you need skill for not dying of one shot to the head against stego
or dodge attacks from carno and deino
wide tulip
okay
zenith lion
6 utahs are a big pack
wide tulip
WELL
zenith lion
if they want to bring you down, they will if you are alone
the " alone "part is very important
wide tulip
I can see you're just going to be contrarian to my opinion
zenith lion
I can see you're just going to be contrarian to my opinion
nope
im being honest
6 normal utahs against someone good
6 utahs should win if they are normal players
not bad ones
wide tulip
As aa 80% stego 2 raptors attacked me
they hit me ONCE
and my stam stops regenerating
now I cant tail swipe wildly I have to count it
zenith lion
that is maybe a bug
i have seen other videos of stego vs utahs and that is weird
but 2 utahs that are good can kill a stego easily with coordinated pounces
zenith lion
and, attacking wildly is not skill based either
wide tulip
you latch on
you get a ton of hits
on a stego he cant knock you off unless he's near water
zenith lion
yes, if they are good playing utah and you are normal stego
zenith lion
on a stego he cant knock you off unless he's near water
or trees
wide tulip
by the time you get to a tree
zenith lion
as soon as a utah attakcs you
wide tulip
you're fuckin dead
zenith lion
go to trees
wide tulip
if I see a utah I go to a tree
zenith lion
you're fuckin dead
they choose the right moment to attack then
zenith lion
they must be rewarded for attacking when there arent trees near
zenith lion
but stegos are fuckin slow and not manuverable at all
well, they are big, heavy and do a ton of dmg
wide tulip
and maybe i killed one
wide tulip
i agree
zenith lion
or carnis
wide tulip
but have you tried to find a herd recently
wide tulip
a baby stego gets yeeted
zenith lion
yep
wide tulip
you cant play in a herd without friends in discord with you
zenith lion
normally dont
thats true
if we would have the same group system as before and maybe global
but now that is a dream
they have stated very firmly that it will not come back
wide tulip
I'm just saying, bleed is VERY strong. It gives location/stam drain/ does damage AND it can get worse the more you move
and raptors dish out a TON
wide tulip
it's a death sentence right now
wide tulip
I mean, if it becomes about herds then it's numbers
zenith lion
if you are a solo herb and a group of utahs see you
you better pray they are bad players
deep escarp
on a stego he cant knock you off unless he's near water
Can’t stegos buck you off?
zenith lion
Can’t stegos buck you off?
yeah, but drains too much stam
zenith lion
it would be better to go to a tree
deep escarp
Then do what most do and spam tail swings until they have to jump off and you one shot them from miles away xd
wide tulip
if you are bleeding
and spam tailswings
you run out of stam and die like a loser
you get like 8 tail swings dude
deep escarp
That’s 8 kills lmao
wide tulip
have you played stego
zenith lion
yeah but you will fail most of them
deep escarp
I’m fucking with you
zenith lion
utahs are very nimble
wide tulip
EVERY raptors wait for you to swing them jump in
deep escarp
Meh I’ve seen some dumb ones NOT do that
If they have half a brain then yea they will wait until after you swing otherwise you get one shot and that’s your whole time wasted.
zenith lion
If they have half a brain then yea they will wait until after you swing otherwis...
yeah
that is the thing
you have room for one mistake
if you fuck it up
boom
1.35 hours more
deep escarp
Exactly I think people forget at least with stegos or others you can fuck up and get away with it. As a Utah if you fuck something up 9/10 you will die for it.
zenith lion
Exactly I think people forget at least with stegos or others you can fuck up and...
yep
that is why they are easy to grow and do bleed
in my opinion
wide tulip
its not easy to fuck up
the latch is a fuckin easy missile
when i play raptor and I see a stego its free lunch
a stego has to stab at you
it has no sweep
deep escarp
Btw the stam regen from bleed thing isn’t a raptor issue
deep escarp
It’s part of the game
wide tulip
I think every hit is guaranteed to bleed
deep escarp
That’s because normally our attacks do fuck all dmg
deep escarp
It’s only the bleed that does anything
wide tulip
there are litterally 900000 of you in every spawning point right now
deep escarp
Hahahaha
wide tulip
go to a server, spawn as a raptor
tell me how long it takes for you to find 15 raptors
deep escarp
Ngl we wiped a server yesterday and EVERYONE spawned back as a raptor and wanted to join us, whole server was pretty much raptors.
wide tulip
I mean damn if we wanna play raptor simulator chill cool keep stanning your favorite dino
deft folio
most groups are loud making chatting an 1 calls, how can you not avoid them all the time?
deft folio
everywhere people seem to all like to go an hang out
wide tulip
I can see that we're chill with the map being tons of raptors
golden coral
Are you guys arguing an actual balance issue or just how many raptors there are? :p
deep escarp
Our group doesn’t allow any others we play with our same group and tell other raptors to stop spam inviting us or we kill them.
wide tulip
bleed is strong with 9000000 raptors
my arguement is that bleed is too good on stam drain
deep escarp
True
golden coral
Wiping servers? Sounds like there's some imbalance there if that's a possibility, no matter what you play as.
deft folio
whole football team vs one line backer, rdy go.
deep escarp
But that doesn’t mean they should nerf Utah bleed xd they should look in to how bleed effects stam.
wide tulip
sure
deep escarp
Wiping servers? Sounds like there's some imbalance there if that's a possibility...
If you have a good squad why not?
wide tulip
I just hope this game doesnt turn into a sweaty discord group oriented game
golden coral
If you have a good squad why not?
Because no matter how good you are, that should not be a thing. That's very much an imbalance issue, unless everyone you met was afk possibly.
umbral inlet
What they need to do is make entire body susceptible to break and bleed, but only head and torso directly susceptible to direct vital damage.
deep escarp
The other day a stream was running around with 5, tenos and 5 stegos wiping a server, does that mean they are unbalanced?
wide tulip
how are they wiping a server
stegos are so easy to avoiud
you litterally just walk away
golden coral
Yes. I would say that's an issue, perhaps not so much a balance as some issue with survival demands. But the concept of being able to run around and wipe a server is not reasonable. And that would be an issue with mixherding, which is an entire issue on it's own.
So yes, that combination would be imbalanced actually.
deep escarp
I don’t mean EVER single person that’s impossible like you say they can run away. I just mean the main packs you see running around.
Like we ran around and killed off all the adult carnos, stegos ect and they all spawned back as Utah’s and it ended up being like 50+ Utah’s so we just all went off the game.
wide tulip
Right now, every spawn point is FULL of raptors
deft folio
play Hypsi an die just from something just looking at you from across the map, have a spit that if they're in range for it they can just bite an one shot you, any place you can jump to everything else can get up there. Want bad balance try playing Hypsi all the time.
wide tulip
Imean hypsi is just for fun
golden coral
@deep escarpEven so. But it's a personal preference I guess. I don't think it should be doable, so to me there's some issues there, be it balance or something else.
deft folio
Oh its just a fun dino, my bad..
deep escarp
It’s going to happen it’s the way people are they are like sheep. They see one good group of people running around and want to join them so they switch to that Dino and try to fit in.
wide tulip
you're a fuckin skunk dude you're not going to murder dinos
blind is p good
but anyways lets not get distracted
nerf bleed when your bleedbar is mostly full
at 50% it should drain stam
or something
deft folio
Blinds range is the same range as anythings bite, you blind they just bite, spit does nothing.
wide tulip
OR we can just all roll raptor
deep escarp
Sheep
wide tulip
50% raptor 50% croc
deft folio
I only play big dino's an whatever big dino I play should destroy everything even packs. .
alpine plover
I have a server on the old the isle without the crocodiles and the birds ... But how can I transfer my server to the BETA the isle evirma
wide tulip
I aint playin stego when I walk into 15 raptors randomly
boom 6 hours gone
PACK UP!
deft folio
play Hypsi no grow time. tada problem solved about wasting time.
wide tulip
okay let me coordinate a discord group for 6 hours
deep escarp
I’ve only ever played one Dino so can’t say I know how you feel but I have been a solo raptor and been chased down by 8 or so carnos before just part of the game.
wide tulip
I guess herb will suck without friends or nesting
deep escarp
I’ve seen a solo teno wipe out 20 raptors
wide tulip
I've only seen Teno corpses tbh
ripe zinc
Tenos are solid fighters, and dryo is very fast and agile
wide tulip
it kindof has to be since the entire server is carnos
ripe zinc
is just stego and hypsi that's ez food
wide tulip
its like a 90/10 split if that
golden coral
Tenno is good, dryo is basically immortal these days with the speed. Hypsi do not matter, and stego sucks as always :p
deft folio
dryo is fast till you get caught eating an takes like 2 seconds to stop eating so you can run.
deep escarp
it kindof has to be since the entire server is carnos
Raptors?
golden coral
@ripe zincI went dryo to try it out a bit lately, it's surprisingly fun! Then I went to nibble a deino and forgot the new hitbox change.. :p
deft folio
lol
golden coral
And yes, slow stop when eating. At least it doesn't do a doubletake like stego used to do :p
deep escarp
You do see a lot of herbs but yea as a Dino game I would expect the mass to want to be a meat eater over eating grass.
deft folio
I learned if close enough to spit as hypsi carno, raptor an deno can just bite an kill you, spit is soooo broken.
deep escarp
Imo in order the best dinos atm are Croc, Teno, stego, carno
wide tulip
i'm not even sure why i'm even bothering trying to convince anyone anything
the devs dont read this shit
but can we tlak about how many goddamn raptors there are
jesus christ
deft folio
all the big dino's everyone is playing them in large numbers, its not just raptors, that just seems to be the ones you run into.
golden coral
That's probably more an issue with lack of diets, lack of actual survival demands, and all that.
ripe zinc
@wide tulip Raptor's fun
umbral inlet
Imo in order the best dinos atm are Croc, Teno, stego, carno
If the devs would fix raptor pounce, that would be so nice.
wide tulip
Imo in order the best dinos atm are Croc, Teno, stego, carno
what are you playing right now
and why is it raptor LMAO
grave veldt
raptor pounce itself isnt bad its just the dismount issue
that needs to be looked at
grave veldt
when u dismount anything
ur guarenteed to get killed especially as a stego
when u dismount an animation plays
the stego can wait for u to dismount and hit u when u dismount
grave veldt
ur no getting it lol
if u dismount anything ur gaurenteed to get hit if they buck in place
wide tulip
whats buck, E?
It feels like everyone that was being a deino fanboy got bored and went to raptor
the 20,000 N BITEFORCE posts are all gone
deep escarp
and why is it raptor LMAO
i liked the whole idea of pack hunting so i played raptor and havent changed since.
wide tulip
So you see, you saying every class is stronger than yours
deep escarp
also i feel being able to be 1 shot and having to be careful adds a bit more hardcore aspect to the game which i like.
wide tulip
is interesting
deep escarp
So you see, you saying every class is stronger than yours
talking to me about this?
wide tulip
what
deep escarp
are you talking to me or someone else?
wide tulip
you, you rated every dino higher than raptor lmao
wide tulip
gotcha okay
deep escarp
as a solo raptor yes its probablt the worst dino
but it depends on how mnay 100% you have in your group and if they are any good. Raptor is all about pack and team based playstyle.
if you have a group of shit players it will be shit, if you have a group of good players it will be one of the best.
that being said you still need to fight people with less number than you, a group of 8 raptors wont be able to kill a good group of 8 carnos or any other dino, UNLESS you some how split them up and bait them 1 by 1.
wide tulip
can you leap on crocs
deep escarp
out of water yes
deep escarp
but still most of the time they are to tanky to even kill
wide tulip
and it didnt work
TBH if they're out of water they're dead
you just bleed them to death
deep escarp
pounce these days is in a bad way, the hitbox for pounce seem to be very small you have to rather be right next to them or make sure they aint moving.
mighty knot
Deinosuchus hard counters Utah pounce
It's super resistant to bleed, and can swim in water to get rid of hit
deep escarp
you just bleed them to death
you are over rating utahs bleed
mighty knot
Plus alt bite let's you easily hit a Utah dropping off
deep escarp
we had 8 of us all pouncing and bleeding an adult croc miles from water, he just slowly walked back to the water without stam and was fine.
wide tulip
because the game is fucking broken
mighty knot
Honestly Utah needs a kick back off of pounce
deep escarp
we pounced him like 8x
wide tulip
It says E to wallow
mighty knot
Well yeah you can't really bleed it
wide tulip
but you dont
deep escarp
It says E to wallow
that happanes for everyone
wide tulip
ya
it should be X to wallow or something
all these keys
and they chose the same one for eat drink and wallow
deep escarp
i killed an afk adult croc and it took me 30+ bites to the head
mighty knot
As Utah?
deep escarp
yup
mighty knot
That's a good thing
It weighs more than 8 times more after all
And Utah isn't a biteforce to weight ratio dino either
deep escarp
yea i mean most poeple seem to want it to be realistic rather than balanced so is what it is
mighty knot
Realistic is making it so nothing in the game can damage it anywhere but the underside
Lmao
P'ting xD
deep escarp
whats pting?
deep escarp
o okay
mighty knot
It needs to be in a populated area, which has deep water, which has people in it, which are thirsty, which have no idea you are there, which aren't careful, which are small enough to grab
deep escarp
or desync and lag needs to be worked on
mighty knot
Which aren't being guarded by mixpacking stegos
The way that Deino kills stego is impossible to do when there is 2
Even with 2 Deinos
I like stego on Deino for the most part though
deep escarp
tell you what sucks, the hp regen thing from fighting to much. Will get hit 1x by something which takes half my hp or so then it takes 2h to heal to 100% again.
mighty knot
Yeah scarring is really bad now
deep escarp
its quickker to die and start again as a utah
mighty knot
I guess it's supposed to stop people from living for fighting
But people just do the same thing and complian lol
deep escarp
i know and i like it but cmon i was healing 5% every 15mins yesterday
adn when everything pretty much 1-3 shots you its so annoying.
maybe when the elder thing arrives it will kinda balance it out a bit.
deep escarp
yea or water
mellow zenith
yea or water
Yeah, only if you're above 80% other wise deino can grab you
stuck nova
Also one think, need to boost a bit Ptera beceause even in full adult, juve can kill us like nothing.
zenith vessel
thats because they eat fish and hatchlings
juvies are a lot bigger than hatchlings and can defend themselves
wide tulip
water is bis because they cant even get on you and it slows them down
but then you've got bleed and you cant wallow
stuck nova
the problem with ptera is when you are on land it takes time to fly its almost impossible to escape an ennemie, and when you achieve to escape, you hit a fucking invisible wall, or collision with the predator.
And the animation to get up is so slow
lament cloak
the problem with ptera is when you are on land it takes time to fly its almost i...
stay aware of your surroundings better, ptera is the easiest thing to survive as and it isnt even close
fathom pelican
with a ptera you can never get too pre occupied for too long
stuck nova
Yes i know but the collision whe you escape is crazy
ripe zinc
the problem with ptera is when you are on land it takes time to fly its almost i...
don't stand around and be attacked, you can fly
fathom pelican
but it takes about 3 seconds to start flying
and by then your already bleeding
well around 3 secs
stuck nova
if the collision was not there it will be better
fathom pelican
true
lament cloak
but it takes about 3 seconds to start flying
it definitly does not take 3 seconds, hold space your in in the air in 2 seconds or less.
stuck nova
i mean only for the flying escape not collision of the entire game
ripe zinc
land somewhere safe then, when something's attacking you you already messed up
lament cloak
Yes i know but the collision whe you escape is crazy
your trying to escape something thats already on top of you, like I said earlier you should have been more aware and left the ground before it was on top of you
deep escarp
Also one think, need to boost a bit Ptera beceause even in full adult, juve can ...
haha i just killed a ptera as a juvi on EU6 wasnt you was it?
stuck nova
haha i just killed a ptera as a juvi on EU6 wasnt you was it?
utha who was hiding behind the tree ?
lament cloak
the only time you should ever be in danger as a ptera is from deino ambushes while drinking
deep escarp
na i was on a rock
stuck nova
ah no wasnt me
deep escarp
at pond
zenith vessel
ptera is so easy to survive as just sit ontop of a mountain if you getting caught on land thats on you
stuck nova
no i got kill in center
kille by juve utha LOL
i got collision with him and animation to get up took fucking 3 sec
zenith vessel
and if ptera didnt have collision they would just fly through thing
stuck nova
and if ptera didnt have collision they would just fly through thing
im talking only the collision when you try to escape the attacker not the collision of the entire game
zenith vessel
yeah if they ontop of you ofc you cant get away
its like if you are pinned down you cant just phase through them and get away
lament cloak
im talking only the collision when you try to escape the attacker not the collis...
yeah, taking away collision is stupid. first of all phasing through things is outright dumb. second of all it allows the most immortal animal in the game to be even more immortal
stuck nova
but an tiny utha the size of my finger, how can he block me xD
zenith vessel
because they literally on top of you
stuck nova
yeah, taking away collision is stupid. first of all phasing through things is ou...
The collision they added is very cool juste some times its make me salty to die by baby xD
the update is very cool, im waiting so much an new map 
umbral inlet
Ptera takes too much fall damage. Obviously an attempt at game mechanic balancing with no regard for reality. Birds have light bones which makes them have low mass which means any type of impact damage has very reduced effect on them, meaning, a bird takes very little fall damage. But somehow, ptera is designed to take immense fall damage, or maybe it takes normal fall damage but just has a very low health pool. I think fall damage needs to be significantly reduced for ptera, like as much as 50-75% even.
zenith vessel
Ptera takes too much fall damage. Obviously an attempt at game mechanic balancin...
Those are birds and pteras are a lot bigger
hollow canyon
It doesn't take much fall damage at all I feel. At least compared to most other animals in the game.
umbral inlet
Size isn’t a big factor, it’s a size to mass ratio. Provided that ptera didn’t have solid bones, it would have been light. Light enough to fly.
hollow canyon
I've managed to fall down from some impressive heights and I was genuinely surprised how I'd survived those falls as a Ptera.
slim dragon
Ptera can survive a 20 meters fall. That's not that bad
Considering a human would fucking explode from such a fall
umbral inlet
Aken it may not seem like it but just now, I jumped off of a 1.5 meter drop, not far at all, didn’t fly, just hopped. I instantly took near fatal fall damage. I had 20% health left from one little hop. I’m sure you agree this is not a believable amount of fall damage.
Correction: it was a 3 meter drop, maybe 4 meters when you account for the initial hop.
slim dragon
Now this is incredibly weird, because I fell higher heights as a ptera without taking any damage
Maybe baby and adult have different fall damage resistances ?
umbral inlet
That is very strange. I have also fallen as an adult for a fair distance and survived. I was a sub adult at the time, so that’s a good possibility.
slim dragon
Actually I think fall damage is a little buggy, devs said it was decreased during last update but it seems to have drastically increased for some people
Maybe it's not the height that is taken into account but the overall speed ?
So if you fall while sprinting you're gonna take a lot more damage ?
mellow fable
if you put an X on my balance feedback post i'd love to have a civil discussion on why you disagree
sinful cove
That sounds threatening 
mellow fable
no i'm all for balance and i feel pretty strongly about the deino being in an unhealthy place atm. and i do recognize the game isnt in its final state, despite that i still think it needs some tweaks
slender cargo
if you put an X on my balance feedback post i'd love to have a civil discussion ...
I do not think the deino should get trampled on land by any dino at all, now any apex yes but a few utahs or canos? No, not at all If everything cost a large amount of stamina on land it would sit in the water and kill only fish, If It can't drag you into the water it has to come on land to fight you.
Deinos run on land right now when theres nothing to challenge them, a stego will destroy you on land as would a rex or even a large pack of carnos.
mellow fable
when i said cost of stamina on land, this wouldnt affect grabbing things and pulling them under, because you do that from the water anyway
im all for that staying the way it is
slender cargo
Yeah, I'm aware.
You're talking about alt biting ect.
If you're a pack of carnos, you can run away from a deino when on land a deino can't escape anything, unless its close to water as is.
So to use stamina alt biting, sounds terrible.
mellow fable
that's the thing. a deino shouldnt be on land in the first place
if you are in that spot, its bad play and its entirely your fault for being in a bad position
wise obsidian
While deinosuchus is not meant for prolonged land combat it should not be immediately stumped when fighting on land either
slender cargo
Remember, this is game not real life it would literally destroy the fun of the deino, we can't pick up anything any drag them in the water.
wise obsidian
More so even if deino players attempt to hunt on land, the sheer stamina drain and how slow it is stops them from doing so
All they can do is defend themselves
mellow fable
that wouldn't take away from deino gameplay at all? you dont run onto land to try and grab someone out in the middle of a field
and expect to drag them all the way back to the river
yes, but youre always near the water so you can retreat
im just thinking of the logic of the creature
slender cargo
I get that honestly.
mellow fable
it is meant to be in the water, whether or not its fun doesnt matter
i enjoy stalking and hiding in the water waiting for the right moment
that is how crocodiles do
hollow canyon
I don't see what the issue with Deino being on land is exactly. You can always just... walk away from it?
mellow fable
because they can walk onto land and challenge land dinos for their food
and there is nothing they can do about it unless they have significant numbers
hollow canyon
I don't think that's a problem. I have more of a problem with Deino getting to casually get back to water after it does it whenever it feels like it's getting its butt kicked.
mellow fable
it is so obnoxious and unfun for everyone else, it takes a significantly greater amount of coordination to take down a deino than it does for the deino player
slender cargo
Once more dinos are added, esepcially more apex carnivores.
I don't think you'll see many deinos.
But If you nerf it, it'll be absolute terrible.
hollow canyon
I wouldn't be too sure about that, crocs are very popular
mellow fable
im talking of the state of the game currently, i want it to be a bit more fun for the people playing land dinos
slender cargo
Its the apex carnivore right now, ofc its popular I play it a lot.
mellow fable
the ability to one shot anyone who comes near water is insanely powerful
i dont understand why you would need to walk onto land and start biting people
slender cargo
Whats a croc suppose to do, to take down dinos it can't drag into water?
mellow fable
nothing
just like if a single raptor sees a carno
youre not going to fight it, its part of the game
its the exact same idea
small dinos? it can grab an entire carno
fully grown and one shot it
wise obsidian
To be fair grabbing an adult carno requires full stamina
mellow fable
ofc it is part of the game, but literally every time we go to get any kills, even if its far off the shore, like 3 deinos walk up
because they know they are untouchable
slender cargo
Well, I think to use stamina on land for attacks is terrible idea and I hope they never do this.
mellow fable
it doesnt matter how long it takes for them to get there, they will eventually
hollow canyon
Atm land dinos are getting the short end of the stick
mellow fable
the only fun part of deino is grabbing people into the water
hollow canyon
it's not really due to Deino claiming their kills though
mellow fable
running onto land is boring and not fun for either player
hollow canyon
the main issue is with AI being unavailable to them
mellow fable
i mean the stego will take 2 deinos with ease
mellow fable
ive seen it lol
if its back facing to the water
it will totally wreck them, its like 4 hits to kill the deino with the tail swing to the head
hollow canyon
This is the kill I've made today. I did it alone 1v1
mellow fable
anyway it is off topic
long raise or not i dont think a dino should be exempt from the logic of the game
what is the deino doing when it attacks on land? twisting its entire body around to bite behind it, how can that not cost stam?
the teno uses stam just to swing its tail
and its primarily a land dino
i dont see the balance
therefor the deino isnt
slender cargo
Disagree.
mellow fable
wdym? the teno can get 10 hits off and then its out of stam
10 tail swings or kicks
slender cargo
10 slams?
slender cargo
I think the tail slam is a op attack tbh, it does'n't look natural at all.
hollow canyon
they don't have the same cost
slender cargo
But kicking is fine.,
mellow fable
lots of dinos used their tails
slender cargo
Go and look at the teno tail slam, it doesn't look natural it looks like a sledge hammer.
I'm sure they did lol.
But still, you're the one comparing deinos to real life.
Its a game and I don't think everything should be decided on realism ect.
mellow fable
because its a common argument against this idea
candid tulip
teno is perfect the way it is
slender cargo
Yeah, teno is fine.
mellow fable
that it has a strong bite force and should do a lot of damage, then you can make a counter argument with saying it should use a lot of stam doing what it does on land
slender cargo
The deino does a 500 bite? Thats not even strong.
mellow fable
because you cant say it needs to be realistic in one way and dismiss realism in other ways
slender cargo
I don't think it needs to be realistic at all in anyway.
mellow fable
i dont know what its bite force is i just see people bringing it up a lot
slender cargo
I never said that.
wise obsidian
Its bite force is 500n
mellow fable
to real life*
slender cargo
The deino bite force is 500, thats fucking low for its weight.
And you wanna add stam to fight on land to that.
No thanks.
slender cargo
I'm only playing deino really, because its new and feels nice.
zenith vessel
well if it got any more biteforce rn it would dominate even more than it does
mellow fable
thats why they kill each other for no reason and waste each others time
mellow fable
thats why its a completely pointless creature to even play unless you have a ton of friends
zenith vessel
yeah but rn
slender cargo
Yeah, rn but thats only because theres a lack of dinos.
zenith vessel
add more bite force later on but not now
slender cargo
But the debate here isn't the bite force, its wanting it to cost stamina to use it on land.
mellow fable
aaron this discussion was primarily on should the deino use stamina to attack behind it
when its it turns completely
to attack
or to the side
zenith vessel
aaron this discussion was primarily on should the deino use stamina to attack b...
yes i think it should because it is pushing almost its whole body weight
mellow fable
the regular bite shouldnt use stamina, but when it turns behind it i think it should
hollow canyon
That's not really true - Deino can be played solo perfectly fine. It's one of the better animals for solo play I'd argue. The only thing that screws it over are megapacks and mixpacks but these are an issue for literally every animal except Dryo and Hypsi.
slender cargo
I honestly don't like the idea of any dino using stam to attack, but thats just me.
zenith vessel
That's not really true - Deino can be played solo perfectly fine. It's one of th...
other deinos and stegos
mellow fable
you cant even get behind a deino because it can just attack you from directly behind it with its huge hitbox
hollow canyon
Stegos are not an issue
zenith vessel
alt bite is faster than normal bite for deino
slender cargo
Alt bite is not faster than normal bite at all.
Normal bite is faster, especially in water.
hollow canyon
Other Deinos - yea they can be an issue but I haven't found them to be a problem aside from the instances where they were mixpacking with other stuff.
wise obsidian
you cant even get behind a deino because it can just attack you from directly be...
You actually can. The bite doesnt reach directly behind- it reaches to the side, but you still have time to land a bite yourself
hollow canyon
That's not true - alt bite is faster
mellow fable
maybe if youre biting the tail
slender cargo
Alt bite is slower.
zenith vessel
Alt bite is not faster than normal bite at all.
wrong it has less of a cooldown when looking forward so if something is standing still its better to use alt bite
mellow fable
or youd have to get right up close i mean its so much effort to take a single one down i know its a 5 hour grow but
hollow canyon
Alt bite's just much better overall
wise obsidian
Even then the alt bite is supposed to defend from ass riding
mellow fable
with the whole cannibalism aside
its impossible to die with
if you play smart
literally impossible
so if you start being dumb, walking onto land
you rightfully deserve to lose a fight against 3 carnos. 0 chance
zenith vessel
wrong it has less of a cooldown when looking forward so if something is standing...
I tested this and alt bite shouldnt have less of a cooldown imo
mellow fable
even if those carnos are completely incompetent
hollow canyon
It's only impossible due to the fact that Deino always gets to sod off into the water if things start taking a bad turn for it
slender cargo
If you're good, but It comes down to skill of the deino and carnos.
mellow fable
you really dont require much skill
to fight with deino on land
since it uses no stamina, and there is no stamina game to play
mellow fable
so much of this game revolves around the use of stamina
like look at carno vs stego carno vs teno
its all a stamina game
the deino is EXEMPT from that rule
it does not deserve to be
zenith vessel
If you're good, but It comes down to skill of the deino and carnos.
Nah i took on 7 carnos and they couldnt get much hits in because of how fast i could turn around with alt bite and with no consequence
slender cargo
Do you hate that dinos use stamina for abilitys?
mellow fable
no
zenith vessel
Do you hate that dinos use stamina for abilitys?
no
mellow fable
i think its necessary for balance
slender cargo
Nah i took on 7 carnos and they couldnt get much hits in because of how fast i c...
Yeah, my self to I'm confident on land against dinos but I have seen a lot of bad deinos land.
mellow fable
if you can spam swings, there is no benefit to baiting out attacks
land combat is extremely skillful atm
zenith vessel
Do you hate that dinos use stamina for abilitys?
if it didnt use stamina things like utah could latch on forever think about that
mellow fable
land combat versus a deino requires a large amount of finesse while the deino player just needs to click towards you
its so one sided
slender cargo
The only way I'd be like yeah okay, alt bite uses stam is If it was a small portion, that being said when I travel on land I barley travel far at all I alays stay close enough to water.
mellow fable
deinos are raid bosses, and it seems worse than it is atm because it has no real competition
see michu, these are the times when other creatures should have a chance to killa deino
i should be able to camp a crossing, and catch a deino
golden coral
As what?
mellow fable
just like other creatures can camp a body
slender cargo
Camp a crossing?
slender cargo
A small crossing spot?
mellow fable
no. an example would be
the waterfall to get to pond
from the river
you have a fairly long path there
it should be a terrifying experience to walk that path as a deino
golden coral
Why you'd ever go up there as deino is beyond me :p
mellow fable
you SHOULD be afraid
i see so many deinos go up there bro
every time i see at least like 10 deinos in that area
golden coral
And then they complain about being locked in by stegos, yes I know :P
slender cargo
Thats not a long walk at all.
I don't think full grown deinos should be afraid at all personally.
mellow fable
its a pretty long walk compared to most walks they have to make
im fine if they are allowed to tank a lot of hits, i get it, its an armoured creature and is naturally durable
just off of it being flat and hard to bite at
but it shouldnt also be able to fight the creatures that are supposed to dominate that environment
zenith vessel
spino will clap it so dont worry
mellow fable
then how can other creatures fight it? it cant go both ways
slender cargo
Exactly Aaron.
mellow fable
it cant have the best of both worlds
slender cargo
Deino is not op at all, it will get destoryed by other apex.
mellow fable
ofc, but spino isnt in the game yet, and i think a small change can make the current experience more fun for everyone
slender cargo
Once spino is released, I hope deino is a faster swimmer lmao.
mellow fable
i think when spino is released there will be lakes
where spino can hide, and rivers where itll be exposed if it runs through
deinos that go into lakes will be at a disadvantage because they will die to spinos but spinos wont be able to see all the deinos in the river and will be exposed to other apex predators that can simply wade through the river and fight him
slender cargo
But currently rev, you said 3 carnos can kill a deino depending on how good they are, I still don't think deinos should use stam for alt bite on land but maybe one day it will.
But if deino uses stam for alt bite, I'll be arguing the damage should be increased.
mellow fable
the reason im so adamant about this change is because we had like 5 - 6 dudes and listen we arent pros, but we arent stupid either
we baited out hits, went in
and bit, ran past
they just dont fucking die
its ridiculous
slender cargo
Yeah, they're pretty tanky but they definatly can die.
mellow fable
its so not fun for the other party
do you see the issue though?
they can stand their ground so well on land
slender cargo
Sure, but like I said, If you want stamina used for alt bite then up the damage to.
mellow fable
so when the hell can anyone fight them?
golden coral
Not sure what the issue here is? Maybe just make alt bite take stamina, and that would solve it?
mellow fable
the answer is only if they are being absolutely braindead
out in the middle of an open field nowhere close to water
yes erik thats the suggestion im making
slender cargo
Also curios, have you seen how much stam drains for an adult deino running on land?
mellow fable
because it turns around completely to bite behind it and that should be a feature exclusive to the alt bite and use stamina
golden coral
Not like a deino should be up on land in the first place anyway, so shouldnt make much of a difference unless it insists on fighting up there
mellow fable
yes i have
i know it uses a lot of stamina
they dont need to move though
they can sit there
bite, regen stamina
and run off
or, what they usually do is, full sprint at u use all their stamina and sit there spinning in a circle biting you
until they regen full stamina again, so they can run at you some more
slender cargo
Yeah, I've not really plyed much carno yet so I can't comment on that against deino, but I have played utah against deino.
And I've seen deinos run back to the water in a utah pack.
halcyon slate
tbh making an aquatic dino being over-effective on land and say its ok because something is gonna be stronger is a stupid way to patch thing. to me his mobility on land is retarded, an almost 180 degree bite on land for and aquatic dino that is not supposed to be effective on land it is just not right
so the spino excuse suck