#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 231 of 1

golden coral
#

Possible, but I would say the hunt is failed

#

That's the thing. I want carnis to have to properly ambush and properly hunt their prey. If the prey is outsmarting you, back off, try again later.

frosty heron
#

Legacy maybe was broken in much aspects of the game but one thing I miss and hope devs take on mind when balancing the game is the possibilities based on skill/experience, not make a Dino inmortal even to bad players because its realistic, it's a damn game not a simulator

golden coral
#

Yeah no, skill and experience is all fine, but there are limits.

frosty heron
#

That just would make the game in another social chat game for the herbs to be honest, thing nobody wants

golden coral
#

Sure, can everything damage everything, absolutely. But a solo utah should not be able to kill a rex that has even half a braincell and knows how to press buttons :p

#

Why would it be a social chat game because carnis have to properly hunt? For that matter, herbs should compete with each other too over food and stuff

#

Want to see more herbi competition, hope diets will help on that one

frosty heron
autumn falcon
#

With the diet introduction (trademarked soon), they just might

golden coral
#

It could, there's no reason herbis should be all social and friendly

autumn falcon
#

It very well could limit the amount a herd could sustainably have

golden coral
#

They're not irl after all :p

autumn falcon
#

Especially if they make it so big boys like the stego have to eat a lot

frosty heron
golden coral
#

Because the game allows it

#

See diets and other ways to make herbis compete

autumn falcon
#

I hope the diets thing actually forces players to have to migrate around

frosty heron
#

Uh I really doubt diets would make herbs fight each other

autumn falcon
#

As it stands, you get a nice pool near a forest and then afk for 3 days

golden coral
#

That too, though I hope for some sedentary playstyle options too

#

Why wouldn't diet do it?

#

If I can make my stego babies grow much faster if they et this plant, and the tenno over there also thinks the same way, and there is only a few plants?

#

You think I'm going to just share that with the tenno families and let my own juvies grow slower? Because.. why?

autumn falcon
#

"Back off, jackass, this is my grass pile"

frosty heron
# golden coral Why wouldn't diet do it?

Because it has to be too well implemented with limited areas/amount of food and people has to be aware of that, right now I would never see a Teno fight a Stego why would they do that in a future?

autumn falcon
#

Carnis do that a ton in legacy with corpses

#

Especially when you're talking massive corpses, or full herd kills

golden coral
#

Exactly Stalker. You know back when bushes did not respawn? I had a juvie,tenno with me, I was grown. We were both very low on food, grazing to stay alive, looking for any bush. We met 5+ dryos. My first thought when I saw them was "Oh hell no, you guys can go away, if we find any food, it's for me and my juvie, and if you touch it, I will kill you"

frosty heron
#

Just keep in mind we gonna bring a lot of the legacy playerbase which indeed mixpacks with any herb

autumn falcon
#

Well, its like Darwin proposed. The adapt or die

golden coral
#

Yes, but they'll learn Turok

#

Evrima is new things

#

And I sincerely hope for herbi competition proper

autumn falcon
#

Then we'll get an influx of people complaining that even with diets their herbis grow too slow 😂

golden coral
#

That would also allow for weak herbis

frosty heron
golden coral
#

You want to hunt a stego as a deino, look at that one stego who tried to eat the others ones food and got a tailswipe for it

#

Or the tennos who are not getting much food, and now take far more bleed because low food and water.

frosty heron
autumn falcon
golden coral
#

@frosty heron That was an example!

#

Of how herbi competition can yield opportunities to hunt prey easier, and prey you wouldn't normally hunt

autumn falcon
#

Check out some of the spawn areas near water in the QA servers sometimes

frosty heron
#

Well yes but Deino it's already being bullied by adult Stegos and I never complain about it

#

But I would if that would be the case with the Rex or Giga

golden coral
#

Have two trikes square off over food. One gets wounded, now bingo, as a solo rex you got a lot easier meal right there, as opposed to fighting a healthy one right off.

autumn falcon
#

I know of atleast three instances in my playtime where a fully grown deino has literally been swimming in circles spawn killing fresh deinos

golden coral
#

And the other trike might not even care, because good riddance to competition

frosty heron
#

Mixpacking with PTs, so yeah

golden coral
#

@frosty heron I didn't mean it in the sense of complaining. It's an example of how it could yield the weak/wounded prey I would like to see carnis go for. And how it would open opportunities to go for stuff you would otherwise not do. Like rex vs trike, or rex vs stego. You may not want to go after a healthy stego or trike, they can inflict a lot of harm on you even as a rex. But if one of them is halfway dead cause of a dispute over that patch of grass, well, now you got a nice and relatively easy meal there.

#

Would also increase migration if a group claims an area and chases off others, including others of their own kind at that

frosty heron
golden coral
#

I think it should be relatively common, and no, it won't make any adult able to peacefully do whatever they want.

frosty heron
#

And talking about weak ones, you're suggesting to go kill the juveniles and young herbs, mmmm no, even today I don't do that because that's not a challenge, it's easy meal

golden coral
#

At no point did I say you couldn't hunt them, or wouldn't. Only that it would be preferred to target easier kills, as I think it should be.

#

We have locked health btw

#

So there's precedent for finding weaker ones already

#

They just need to make that harsher, work better, and have a way to counter it like go somewhere. Then you can go stalk that area, see what shows up and tries to recover. Just like rivers have mud that means things might come by to wallow after a fight.

#

@frosty heron Ah yes, it's a survival game. Easy meals are good. Challenge is bad, it's dangerous. This is not a fighting game, you do not want to fight. How is this hard to understand. You should prioritize the juvies, simple as that.

frosty heron
golden coral
#

Just because you don't do it, does not mean it's not the smart way to play. Your goal is to survive, act accordingly, be smart, or die.

#

Yes, challenge in surviving, not in killing or fighting.

#

You're free to enjoy fighting, but that's not survival, nor should it ever be.

frosty heron
golden coral
#

I hope they will add far more danger to encounters, so there's a reason to back down, and people get over the whole "must fight to death" mindset. Elder perks and stuff might help with that.

autumn falcon
#

As it stands now, the smartest move a Deino adult can make is to never engage an adult Stego

golden coral
#

That's fine, I do not want the game you want either so :p

#

We'll agree to disagree on what makes a good survival game :)

golden coral
frosty heron
#

I'm just giving reasons to make it a good survival game like common

autumn falcon
#

I think the premise if fair, I just dont think this is an instance where it should be happening

golden coral
#

So am I? There's no issue Turok, we simply disagree on what makes a good survival game? :)

frosty heron
#

Yeah, perhaps

autumn falcon
#

The Deino is comparable in size to the Stego, and I dont have an understanding as to why outside of game mechanics that I couldnt drag one into the water

golden coral
frosty heron
#

Well Deino weights 3 tons more, that's a thing everyone comes with as excuse on matchups

golden coral
#

But you know I agree the mechanic is bad and we need something better and more interesting, and that would make it so Deino could hunt stego, trike, rex, giga, and all the others as well.

frosty heron
#

Thing I don't really like because not everything is weight based

golden coral
#

I do after all want even a rex to fear going swimming.

autumn falcon
#

The cutoff for dragging is 50% of their weight

golden coral
#

Hell, even shant shouldn't look at a deep river/lake and go "Yes, let me go for a long ass swim in here" :p

autumn falcon
#

Which I THINK is way too small

frosty heron
#

You can drag 4 Ton Stego tho

#

Like 60% grown or so?

golden coral
#

When the mechanic is better, we can let it drag stegos :p

#

But as of right now, you'd oneshot another 5 hour growth with yours. That's, not going to be fun.

autumn falcon
#

I think I'd even be fine with how things play now if they just gave the lung a bonebreak or something

#

The small ass stun doesnt really do much for how long the animation is

golden coral
#

Unless you somehow made stegos very hard to drown and very "floaty" maybe, but then that might be odd in it's own way

frosty heron
golden coral
#

I imagine fractures will come in degrees

autumn falcon
#

Pretty sure they've already confirmed bonebreak is comming back in update 4

golden coral
#

So that should be fine

silver wigeon
#

Real life crocs tear the flesh and rip out animals organs a lot

golden coral
#

Yes, but I think they're going to work it on levels, like bleed sort of. So it's not just bonebreak or not.

frosty heron
#

Those are fractures, not bonebreak ltself

golden coral
#

But rather the more you hit, the more severe the fracture, and the more severe the consequenses

#

Which should be a whole lot better

autumn falcon
#

I mean, we're talking about the creature who still holds the record for strongest bite force in the world

#

If anything would have a bonebreaking bite, I dont know why this wouldnt

frosty heron
#

People hates Legacy bonebreak, it won't come back it's pretty much said by Punch

#

Fractures will work differently

autumn falcon
#

I didnt understand the whole teeth debate people had about this thing earlier too

#

Like, the teeth arent what would be doing crushing in this creatures case

#

Its its raw jaw power

golden coral
#

@frosty heron No shit they do. Let me bonebreak you on tailtip hit. Take away all my worth as an ambusher, aiming for your neck/body and all that. Nah, I'll just run by your tailtip and rely on RNG to get you. Great mechanic right there! :p

#

RNG is stupid in the first place, and lack of locational in legacy made it even more stupid xD

frosty heron
golden coral
#

I know Turok, but honestly, the RNG I think they could have done better.

#

They could have probably added something like amount of hits before break

#

Locational I agree was never going to be a thing in legacy probably

autumn falcon
#

I imagin thats how fractures will work

#

Probably a stacking system up till they outright are broken

golden coral
#

And I know rex wasnt as OP as people liked to say. One of the more balanced ones in legacy if anything.

#

Yeah, I hope so Stalker, that + locational should be good

#

Go for legs for movement, maybe jaws for attack, tail for turn radius perhaps, and so on

autumn falcon
#

Would definately stop creatures from swimming in Deino water like they do now

frosty heron
#

Well legacy is nowhere as cool and well made as Evrima is so

golden coral
#

True

frosty heron
#

Like Legacy in comparison looks at it is, an old game

autumn falcon
#

Deinos, when not attacking something standing out of water, actually have surprisingly little they can do to something thats in the water

frosty heron
golden coral
#

It is, but it has been a fun ride Turok :) Ever since before progression even :p

autumn falcon
#

No no, thats what I'm saying. On the shore

#

But if you snag a peak up at the general feedback you'll see where someone is talking about stegos up to their hips in water just pummeling the Deino

frosty heron
#

I've catched dumb Utahs, PTs and hope to catch more stuff another day to prove you can defend yourself pretty well with Deino

autumn falcon
#

Actually swimming, the Deino really only has one attack, which is the simple bite

golden coral
#

Well that's not "in" the water. In the water = swimming. Though I do agree that standing in water high enough to slow you to a walk should mean something

frosty heron
golden coral
#

Like double stamina cost maybe for attacks, you're after all pushing around a bit of water there, just like how you can only walk in the water in the first place

golden coral
autumn falcon
#

I just want Deino on live so I dont have so many goddamn adult ones camping spawn so frequently 😩

#

By the way, has the update produced any noticeable growth in player count?

#

Or has the PTE servers always been this garbage? lol

frosty heron
#

That's shorta natural population control, sucks but there's survival strats for that, if you get spawnkilled isn't much of an issue you literally spawned, so as soon as you spawn instead of staying near the spawn go somewhere else

#

I've found pretty neat grow spots for Deinos, with abundance on elite fish + lonely spot

autumn falcon
#

Ive yet to properly explore out too much, I must admit

frosty heron
autumn falcon
#

The one good time I had playtime, it took me 4 hours to get into the server

#

Like, new player growth

golden coral
#

More people playing the game I guess?

autumn falcon
#

Are they noticeable amount of new players

golden coral
#

I would say we need to see when update is out

#

And hard to say Stalker

#

No more global chat

#

So no more talking to pepople :p

frosty heron
#

I mean servers are full all day so guess there's a lot of players, old and new ones

autumn falcon
#

Like, Hunt Showdown for instance just had a new update that literally tripled its player counts and broke servers for nearly 2 weeks straight

#

I dont expect something like that here

#

But I was curious to see if this game went from like 1.5 k or so players to like 2 k or something

frosty heron
# golden coral No more global chat

People complained a lot about that, and maybe I'm the only one who likes the change, gives the game less social, more survival aspect to the game

autumn falcon
#

I never understood global complainers

#

Dont they know you can literally open chat and press tab to never see it again?

#

They could have always just made it an option that people could tick on or off in the settings

#

Now its going to push servers to have to have something like a discord server to properly moderate communities

#

Which, okay, most servers were already doing, but its weird to me that they are making it near literally a requirement to use a third party messenger to operate effectively

golden coral
#

@frosty heron No, that one we agree on! I very much feel the same way, no global, and no group chat, means more actual survival style. It is boring that the world goes more silent however, but I can see the point of not having those chats.

autumn falcon
#

In the end though, this is still an MMO

#

And its really odd to have an MMO, even when survival based, to not have some form of grander communication with players

golden coral
#

@autumn falcon I think it's more that you can talk all over, same as group meaning you can talk with people across the map/plot to murder the guy next to you despite being the same species, because he can't understand you. Sure, third party can and will be used, but the game does not need to encourage things it does not want to happen.

#

Eh, not really "MMO", that would be PoT. Isle is survival/horror, yes it's multiplayer, but not in the sense of WoW or something as a game you know :p

#

But it could have been a server setting to have global chat/group chat yes

autumn falcon
#

The top tag on steam is literally MMO

frosty heron
#

Ugh , well I dunno who sets those stuff on Steam games but I wouldn't call Isle an MMO

autumn falcon
#

I mean, by all accounts it IS an mmo

#

Its a massively multiplayer game with many players all interacting on a server together

frosty heron
#

Yes has a lot of player slots in one server but that's for logistic means, we cant have a proper survival in such big maps with only 20 people

slim dragon
#

MMO is massively multiplayer online, so yes, The Isle is an MMO

#

Since you play online with a great number of players

#

You're mistaking MMO and MMORPG

autumn falcon
#

MMO is just the broad term for a large multiplayer game

frosty heron
golden coral
#

@autumn falcon Ah, so it is. Well, they need to update that I think. :p

frosty heron
#

Actually a non-MMO survival would be The Forest

golden coral
#

@slim dragon Fair enough, but I think you understood what I was trying to say right? It's survival priority, and will be based around that for "feel" rather than the usual mmo social gathering thing you'll see in others, be they rpg or not.

slim dragon
#

Yes that I agree, but MMO and survival aren't incompatible

#

Taking your example, PoT is more of a RPG than a survival game, so The Isle is a MMOSurvival and PoT is a MMORPG of some sort

autumn falcon
#

I'm just saying I'd rather they have made the global chat a setting to disable rather than hardcoding it as gone

#

This game, when perks are actually added, will technically be an mmorpg

golden coral
#

Yeah, fair enough Necro. Bad choice of words on my part there then.

slim dragon
#

Perks aren't a feat of RPGs but PoT's quests are

autumn falcon
#

Character development is inherently an RPG feat

slim dragon
#

Are mobas RPG's then ?

autumn falcon
#

Well, I know of atleast two mobas that have quest systems

#

So by your definition, they are

golden coral
#

This got confusing :p

slim dragon
#

If you're talking about HotS, that bears the name of quests but aren't really quests
Though we could argue about what's the definition of a quest

autumn falcon
#

HotS was not an example, but thank you for putting that in my mind

glass berry
autumn falcon
frosty heron
#

Hope it stays somehow for official servers

harsh jetty
#

We'd like to return to our roots.

frosty heron
glass berry
autumn falcon
#

Again, I'd reiterate that I think it would be better for it to be some kind of clientside setting to turn off, that could stay off on official servers, but not take the option away entirely for every community

harsh jetty
golden coral
#

I wouldn't mind if they made it a server setting. They have after all said they want to give as much server options as possible. But I guess this is one thing they really feel the game just shouldn't support at all, hence the modding to fix it only.

slim dragon
#

Isn't it weird to completely remove a feature from the game then allow it again later through modding ? I mean, how is that different from keeping it as a tickable option for server owners ?

autumn falcon
glass berry
#

In the long run I don't think its a bad thing, most privately run servers effectively have a server chat in their discord that basically fufills the same purpose anyways, especially if you use discord overlay to quickly tab in and out between the game and such. Global usually just ends up being a shit fest of people complaining anyway.

#

Well I imagine if its something modded in, it'll be one of those mods that has to be done on the server side rather than each individual player who wants to use it

autumn falcon
golden coral
#

xD

glass berry
golden coral
#

Just play on your own, easier that way, no need to deal with others :p

harsh jetty
#

We'll be adding additional admin panel functionality in future.

#

And so forth

autumn falcon
#

That second part is what I was looking for

#

Thank you

glass berry
#

Either way though, that mod support is planned is a good thing though, I imagine there's going to be a lot of modded skins and I actually look forward to making some myself

autumn falcon
#

Albanism will be one of the first ones, mark my words

golden coral
#

Used to be some really cool skins back in the day

glass berry
#

I had been for a while making templates for skin ideas and blocking them out, but only did a few. I should probably start doing that again lmao

golden coral
#

Make something for the new shant concept :p

shadow sphinx
#

Been having a few fights and the hit box of the croc is really bad. My jaws literally glitch through the enemy dino's body and nothing happens. Like what?? Am I bad at hitting those bites or is the hitbox of the croc waaay too small and you have to be ultra precise to be able to deal some bloody damage

glass berry
golden coral
#

Fair enough!

frosty heron
autumn falcon
#

I hear the alt bite has a shorter cooldown than the base bite and does same damage

shadow sphinx
#

Yeah I've been fighting like this and still cannot hit anything

golden coral
#

Maybe if you can find another friendly deino, you could practice a bit on each other?

#

Could be a matter of you not quite knowing the hitbox, or it could be a real problem, so testing would probably be good

shadow sphinx
#

Like by using ALT + LMB I see how my jaws are actually biting the body and it just doesn't deal damage like????? Excuse me??

#

Yeah..

golden coral
#

And yes, I'm sure I'm having way too high hopes that you'd find someone willing to help out but still, it's an idea

shadow sphinx
#

yeah

autumn falcon
#

Ive read a couple people complaining about the bite having a small hitbox

#

So outside of testing, it could be a real thing

#

I havent actually gotten into many fights where I would notice, so I cant say

#

I recommend @sage stump if you two are ever on at the same time

#

Great guy, genuinly looking to help people out who need it

frosty heron
#

Mmm while I've noticed the bite small hitbox while catching fish, never been a big issue outside of that, killed other Deinos, Utahs and even PTs with not major issues

autumn falcon
#

Catching the schooling fish, or something that slips right over your nose when you're trying to bite is actually the worst

#

I'd rather be spawn camped endlessly than constantly miss a fish 3 inches away from my mouth

shadow sphinx
#

Yeap. The hitbox really is terrible. It's a good idea if it could be a bit bigger

sage stump
#

If anyone needs any help with a watery friend, please feel free to reach out! I love the support others keep giving me and I just want everyone to enjoy the new creatures and experience it first hand 0-100%! I’ll be streaming most of the day tomorrow again so you can even reach out in that! Mic/communication doesn’t matter if you’re not comfortable at all. 😊 @autumn falcon I’m glad I could help you!

golden coral
#

Schooling fish is RNG I think, as well as not something the deino is good at getting in the first place at that.

inland lagoon
#

Have anybody calculated how many hits should be done for killing deino vs carno and deino vs stego?

#

Have newer update give rebalace between utah vs teno vs carno?

alpine plover
#

@humble heron

Your idea would make the game a unbalanced mess

#

A biteforce that strong would make deino able to go on land and bully carnos and utahs

#

And its balanced around the CURRENT roster

vapid fable
#

so how much damage does utah pounce do does anyone know

golden coral
#

No idea, but I think it does more bleed than damage, since that's now the main way to kill with it.

vapid fable
#

ah okay, thank you

golden coral
#

@ivory ocean Both grow in 5 hours. And deinos can fight stegos, if they're smart about it. Besides that, deino is not meant to fight stuff, leave the adult stegos alone, you can "one shot" everything else with the grab + drown, deino is fine on that account.

obtuse shuttle
#

deino should still one shot utah even if not using the grab

golden coral
#

Well you know my answer to that one Dragon. You're not wrong, and I do agree, but for now.. :p

ivory ocean
#

well I thought stego was 4 hours but still my question is: Why is deino not meant to fight stuff? It is a normal dino that needs to eat to survive and sometimes you need to hunt something bigger to have more food. And its not easy to find people to ambush if there are thousand spots on the map where you can drink. I just think a part of this game is having fun and a balanced fight between 2 species that are kinda equal with growth time etc. is for me having fun.

golden coral
#

Because it's designed to use it's grab and drown to deal with stuff, not use the bite. And it's a survival game, not a fighting game. You've chosen to play something very niche, and that's part of the cost of it. If you want a more standard interaction, there's utah or carno.

#

Also the fight isn't that bad, you can punish a stego as a solo deino if you know what you're doing, with two of you, you can kill it.

lament cloak
#

oh but I cant just spam left click and win? what is this game

ivory ocean
#

I dont wanna annoy you or anything I have just another opinion, but left click ( normal bite ) is part of the game otherwise it wouldnt be in and how I already mentioned, sometimes you just cant ambush cause theres absolutely nothing around and in such cases you just have no other choice then leave water for a bit and fight for your survival so you dont starve. And dont get me wrong but isnt fighting a part of Survival to stay alive.
Dont get me wrong, maybe I sounded a bit toxic xD, but I am just trying to convince you. Anyways I guess Ill have to deal with it, at least for the rest of the stress test.

golden coral
#

Yes, you do have a bite, and that's fine for defense and to discourage stuff. It's not meant for your main way of getting kills, and stego is simply out of hunting range, unless it's wounded or weak and you can just bite away/need less bites to kill.

sinful cove
#

I mean you can always eat fish when there ard no players in the area too

golden coral
#

And yes, fighting is part of it, but only for need. You don't, most of the time, need to fight a healthy adult stego.

#

And especially right now, it's very hard to judge ecosystem cause you know, hype and all. Later on, you'll probably see a lot more things, including smaller stegos, to hunt more often, than 90% ptera/deino population.

frosty heron
#

It's happening what I expected to happen

ivory ocean
#

not really fish is really rare and theres a lot of deinosuchus competition for fish. At the end of the day it will always end on an deino vs. deino fight and those fight are kinda ridicoloues.

golden coral
#

OI don't think judging balance right now is a good idea, precisely because right now the ecosystem is all sorts of messed up. Later on, you'll hopefully see fewer deinos and pteras, and more carnos, utahs, tennos, and dryos, and more stegos of varying ages.

ivory ocean
#

I know thats why I am mainly waiting for the real update to see how it is and how it works, but still the stress test gives us a bit of a taste. Ill wait how it is with the real update to judge. Anyways I was just mad that I growed a deino for 5 hours and we lost a 3vs1 (all adults) against a stego. I know we are not the best player, still a lot to improve but still it felt kinda a bit unfair. And besides we didnt attack him cause we just wanted a fight, he started killing our kids and attacking us.

golden coral
#

I honestly think it's not so much about not being good, but about not quite knowing how to do it.

golden coral
#

@eager otter Wait, it takes 8 hits to kill a stego, what locational?

eager otter
#

Assuming body shots, so no multiplier

golden coral
#

So that's a 4 shot on the head then

#

If anything it sounds like stego needs a health buff :p

eager otter
#

I'd agree, actually

#

IIRC Stego is undersized at 4 tons

#

Should be 6 last I checked

golden coral
#

Stego has 6K weight

#

But weight does not equate to health

eager otter
#

Right

golden coral
#

Stego got a weight buff, but I've no idea if they changed health. I do know utah has 1K health but 500kg weight so.

#

But if it's 8 hits on body from deino, that would make it 4K health for a stego, unless I'm off?

eager otter
#

Yeah

#

Last I heard, Stego had 4k health, so please correct me if I'm wrong

golden coral
#

No if you're sure on the hits and no multiplier, you're right.

#

Which does make sense to be fair, stego is fragile for it's size and all, it shouldn't be tanky, just very lethal if anything.

eager otter
#

Relative to other apexes, yeah

#

Going by accurate sizes, these are the apexes that are confirmed

AxGg1NQ.png
#

Stego's pretty lanky relative to Anky or Trike

golden coral
#

Yep

#

You could increase the damage to 650, I doubt over 700, cause then the deino would oneshot a utah on the head, and they clearly do not quite want that as of yet.

#

But 650-660 would leave the utah just barely alive.

#

Would make it just about 3 hits on the head for stego, 6 on body.

eager otter
#

I'm of the belief that a Utah should just die if it gets it's head caught by a Deino, but for gameplay purposes it'd be less frustrating if the Utah had a chance to survive

#

But yeah, that does help even out the Stego vs Deino matchup a lil

golden coral
#

I don't think the matchup is as bad as people say to be fair, it's more a lack of knowing how to play it, than a lack of damage or anything, so I'm not sure a buff is needed at all.

#

But if there has to be one, then keep it within how the devs intended it

#

I am curious what people will think when they run into a trike or shant later on, that should be fun :p

frosty heron
#

How you would play it? You can't dodge Stego attacks as Deino

#

Which is the whole matchup with Utah and Carno

sonic flame
#

We've never had flying or swimming animals before, and they've been out less than a week at this point, so people are still figuring out how they play

golden coral
#

From what I know, there are some positioning tricks to use.

frosty heron
#

Well it's more "baiting" than dodging actually

#

But Deino can't do any of those

sonic flame
#

might be a good idea to wait and see how the animals sit into the ecosystem before messing with anything, but that's just imo

golden coral
#

You might still want to not try your luck with a healthy stego with full stamina, but if it's wounded or otherwise weak, you can take it solo if you play it right. And with two deinos, you can take a solo stego if you play it right.

#

@sonic flame I agree. There's been deinos that have successfully killed stegos, so it's doable as it stands.

sonic flame
#

Also keep in mind that until around 80%, the Stego can be lunged by a Deino

frosty heron
sonic flame
#

that means you can grab it, pull it into the water, and then tear it apart while it can't swing at you

golden coral
#

@frosty heron That someone is quite frankly bad as can be, unless they were all in the middle of a plain or something, which would be dumb. Look earlier. You four shot stego on head, eight shot on body, with three adults, you would kill that stego, even if it kills one or two of you.

sonic flame
#

since Deino can clap everything that isn't a basically full adult Stego/another Deino, I'm not sure a buff is actually warrented

frosty heron
#

While I didn't tested anything related to that matchup yet , it's still to be determined if it's Deinos fault , but lot of people seem unhappy with the situation

golden coral
#

I would say it's the deinos lack of knowledge right now.

sonic flame
#

People I think are misunderstanding the animal, Deino is very focused around using the lunge and drowning its prey, not outright killing them with damage

golden coral
#

And that too yes Hyper. People see it as a water rex.

sonic flame
#

To be fair, we've never had another animal that relies on a special ability as much as Deino, nor is it as polarized

#

Deino is hands down the strongest animal in water, in water.

frosty heron
mild hornet
golden coral
sonic flame
#

On land, Deino isn't that scary, it can't drown you, and it is out damaged by a whopping one animal

#

plus literally every adult animal is faster than it on land, even Ptera

mild hornet
#

can you catch pteras out of the sky in water as deino?

sonic flame
#

not atm no, soon tho

#

as in, sometime after update 3

mild hornet
#

ah cause i was trying lmao

#

is there a way for me to see what server i was in before?

sonic flame
#

not atm, but you could try clicking across servers in the browser and see if you have a saved character

mild hornet
#

yea but its hard when you keep getting kicked back to main menu

golden coral
#

@sonic flame Isn't deino actually slightly faster than adult stego on land, if only until stamina runs out?

sonic flame
#

Also I've seen a lot of people saying Deino should one shot Utah, why not accomplish this by nerfing Utah's HP a bit?

#

just as a hypothetical

#

because if Utah had less HP, then Deino could be buffed to the lowered HP range, without making it too powerful vs other animals

limber elbow
#

Oops didn’t mean to reply to that

sinful cove
#

Could just be a midway of buffing deino to 600 and reducing utah hp a bit, not wildly affecting either animal aside from the matchup

sonic flame
#

If it one tapped Utah with its bite, then it would decimate Teno and Carno as well, and kind of invalidate Stego

limber elbow
#

So the hp for all those dinos are kinda similar then?

sonic flame
#

it was like that for a while in a few playtests, and no one lunged, or stayed in water, land croc was just the best animal because nothing could fight it without dying instantly or being brought to the brink of death

#

Not really all that similar, its just that's a lot of damage

golden coral
#

Yeah, you could nerf utah HP, if that fits with the idea

#

And alright Hyper, I just heard somewhere deino was faster :p

sonic flame
#

and Deino bites fast enough to out damage even stego if it one shot Utah

limber elbow
#

I’m not for deino being stronger then stego on land at all or being a viable hunter on land but I understand the frustration of a Utah tanking a hit to the face

sonic flame
#

Honestly I feel like the small animals might be a bit too tanky, but that's just me lol

limber elbow
#

Ur qa do you have any power of suggesting a change ?

sonic flame
mild hornet
#

you should be able to hold onto your prey, like when you bite you could be able to latch onto them and hold them for a sec or 2

sonic flame
#

I mean don't get me wrong QA talks about balance a lot, but QA itself doesn't tell the devs what to do

#

we just tell them when it sucks lol

vapid fable
#

utah hp could use a small nerf, but i don't think buffing deino bite force is the solution, we don't want apexes one shoting everything like in legacy

sonic flame
#

That is a very good take

#

Apexes need to fear things as well imo, and making apexes one shot everything is not a good way to do that

slate stratus
#

I feel like deino is in a pretty good place atm? For all practical purposes it's lunge attack is a one-shot, once a deino has you in the water you're pretty much fucked, and there's only one animal that is resistant to a fully grown deino just yeeting them into the water so it's effectively against the majority of the roster

lament cloak
#

deino definitly doesn't need a buff, if anything dryo needs a buff, it has a pretty bad matchup against utah, carno, and deino, which are the 3 carnivores that actually make an impact on the ecosystem

vapid fable
#

#buffdryo2021

#

think it'll get the burrowing back tho

slate stratus
#

(also I feel like it's a pretty good model for how apexes should be going forward- extremely powerful in it's niche but kinda unwieldy and mediocre outside of it)

vapid fable
#

^agree

slate stratus
#

Instead of just curb kicking everything in every matchup it gets into

vapid fable
#

rex's bone break and deinos lunge are already lethal if successful

#

and it makes it so hunting as an apex actually takes skills and not just chomp and tank everything with your 3000 bite force

slate stratus
#

also deino's health is such that both carno and stego can actually kill it if it hangs out outside the water, which answers a big problem I had with legacy apexes- their HP pool was way too big and it too megapacks of mid-tier carnivores to even kill one

frosty heron
vapid fable
#

yup, deino is right where it should be, a lot stronger than mid tiers and has the ability to kill instantly but can still be hunted if you're caught in a bad situation

#

can't imagine dilo is gonna do that well in water

frosty heron
#

Thankfully I never died to a Dilo on Legacy, the average Dilo main isn't very intelligent

slate stratus
#

Yeah and outside the one niche of assriding apexes at night, legacy Dilo was kinda very not good

#

It gets ran down by both carno and allo who can stomp all over it

#

Hell even Maia and dibble could just flatten one like a freight train

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

Excuse me sir you're talking with one

ivory ocean
#

DOnt mean to be toxic, but herbi players dont need to be smart in legacy they just chill in group of 20 xD

alpine plover
slate stratus
#

It did not end well for him

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

While I agree most stupid kids plays either Dilo or Rex, not every carnivore main is a dumbass

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

And I wanna think not all the Herbie mains are neither crybabies, there should be a smart guy somewhere

alpine plover
#

suchos are decent to

slate stratus
#

IMO it's dilo, rex and utah that attract the stupidest players

alpine plover
#

Thats why rex needs a high skill gab in evrima

frosty heron
slate stratus
#

Carno, and allo are hit and miss- the bad players are bad, but the good onest are pretty scary and know how to make that mobility, bleed and health do incredible things. They also both benefit tremendously from large groups because of said good mobility

#

As a proud carno main who spent a lot of time growing in packs I can say that the average IQ of a carno player is like

frosty heron
slate stratus
#

Yeah- I think the average IQ of a carno player on evrima actually dropped

#

Because now it's the biggest land carnivore

#

So you have a lot of people trying to play it like a fast rex

frosty heron
#

I have to agree on that, lots of them die stupidly to Utahs now TI_Wheeze

#

I've seen Carnos trying to facetank Stegos like wtf

slate stratus
#

bro just tap charge when you merge with the Utah and flatten its ass

#

beep beep

frosty heron
#

Killed 2 of 3, the third one got rammed by accident 🤣

slate stratus
#

Anyways on legacy carno was in that sweet spot of big enough to be forgiving, small enough you have to mind your own mortality, doesn't take an entire day's work to grow. So it attracted a pretty broad playerbase, from skilled vets to people who wanted to learn to play.

golden coral
frosty heron
golden coral
#

xD

frosty heron
toxic crypt
#

Sincerely hope dryo doesn't get a burrow though. I think the dodge would be enough if they just made it better

slate stratus
#

They can buff the dodge and maybe add an agility perk tree to help it

#

Giving you more and better parkour abilities as you progress

toxic crypt
#

I know dryo as it is now is 100% playable, it's good especially since I think it's faster in the stress test maybe

#

Dryo and hypsi are both in a situation where they're playable, but their main gimmick is actually worthless

#

Dryo's dodge does nothing to help you, and hypsi's spit is so difficult to aim that it may as well not be there

slate stratus
#

I'd give the hypsi spit a targeting cone instead of a line

#

So anywhere within the cone is hit

toxic crypt
#

I agree

#

Dryo's dodge could be given the fancy omnidirectional dodge some others have suggested for it

slate stratus
#

Give dryo the ability to run on walls, vault over rocks and logs and do combat rolls under the feet of bigger dinos

#

Make it go full on parkour master dinosaur

toxic crypt
#

No, it does not need that

#

Not only would that be a stupidly ambitious goal, but dryo doesn't need parkour at all

slate stratus
#

(I know I just think it would be fun to play)

#

(that's probably gonna be herrera's thing anyhow)

golden coral
#

@tribal estuary Unless you were in open plains somewhere, four of you being grown should have no issues dealing with one stego. Have you considered how you fought and what you could have done differently?

tribal estuary
#

@golden coral Wasn't me I watched 4 die lol I got ran down going through the cave river

#

It was sad

golden coral
#

Fair enough, but my point and questions would still stand :p

tribal estuary
#

Oh I won't personally hunt unless it's deep enough water and I go for the neck and belly I've gotten 3 stegos so far and countless pteras just feels like deino needs more kick sad imo a relic from the past is so undercut at the moment I get it all for balance and what not

late kelp
#

I think it's a crime it was advertised as being large enough to take on rexes and yet we got... not that

stark knoll
#

when was that advertised?

late kelp
#

When it was first announced I believe

stark knoll
#

if youre talking about the hope trailer, a cinematic trailer where the gator yells at a rex doesnt really mean it can take it on

tribal estuary
#

I'm wondering about giga and how they're gonna make it effective if you don't bleed to death like legacy... super excited regardless

late kelp
#

Pretty sure it was stated by Dondi himself v-v

stark knoll
golden coral
#

To be fair, Dondi and devs change their minds :p

#

See bleed change :p

#

Wasn't supposed to bleed to death any longer, but here we are xD

tribal estuary
#

Well thank the heavens for that at least lol

golden coral
#

@tribal estuary Considering bleed would otherwise limit your stamina, and it currently does shit on regen, I would imagine giga would fight that way, bleed first, wait, and then bait the thing until it's out of stamina, proceed to murder it the normal way!

tribal estuary
#

Well yeah but that's not how they hunted right if you're on fourth screen fighting a rex and it were to only slow regen you'd have to avoid teeth and could still get the kill but it wouldn't be realistic in the aspect of creatures who would deal bleed then simply wait for it to die that's all I'm saying but if it's in cool just means playstyles have to change a bit otherwise

golden coral
#

Well, I don't think it would be bad if things did change a little. I personally find the whole bite x times, wait to bleed out, pretty boring, and somewhat bad of a mechanic honestly. I think they should have stuck with the idea of bleed not killing at all, just limiting your stamina. After all, if you can't fight back, you will die soon enough.

tribal estuary
#

If it like blacked out your vision made you incapable of moving etc that would be an excellent change instead of dying

golden coral
#

But I also imagined it would limit stamina, not just slow regen

#

Like, imagine if bleed filled the stamina bar from the bottom. And if the bleed level rose above your stamina level, you'd start dying, like if you're drowning or something. So you'd have to manage your stamina vs the bleed you've gotten.

#

Something like that I guess, I'm thinking bleed should basically be a "weaken the prey" style thing, plus slowed regen as an extra effect would make it hard to get back what you've used while you're bleeding, increasing the risk of the next bite going over your stamina bar.

tribal estuary
#

At least then you'd have a chance to escape and recover a bit but still be able to be hunted and I like that then if it fill all the way your lungs are basically full of blood and you'd die lol

golden coral
#

As of right now, bleed is kind of a mix. It slows stamina regen, but the blood itself works as a separate health pool, which makes some sense but it does mean it can be used as an outright kill mechanic, rather than something you'd juggle vs your own stamina while trying to run away or fight off whatever is after you.

tribal estuary
#

Which I do like because I mean blood is life force so if it's gone you should be too but also they should have healing through other methods like say a tree you could find to rub against and sap the wound up for a longer effect than the wallow or something to add variety when you aren't around mud necessarily

golden coral
#

@alpine plover Quick note, ingame biteforce is just that, it is a value for the game balance, not reflective of reality in any way, shape, or form. And as it stands, a deino would not be able to pull a rex. If it will when rex is in, remains to be seen. But it's designed as a midtier hunter for now, as well as balanced for the current roster, which are mostly small things.

spark hazel
#

Does people even know that Deino can stun lock a stego?

When i was playing as an adult Stego i got lunged at by 2 adult Deinos, i got stunned that they could got free hits on me and if they kept doing it they would have killed me .

1 Deino stuns while the other do the dmg part by dealing headshot dmg on stego

golden coral
#

Does a land lunge stun just as well?

#

Because that sounds like a very useful tactic there, if you can stunlock a stego like that.

dusty fable
#

@tribal estuary the bite force is just a damage number. Crocs today can do 16k N but imagibe if you spent 8 houra growing something and lost it to 1 bite from a croc. See where balance comes into this?

slim dragon
#

Actually
Since humans have 1300 N biteforce one could oneshot pretty much everything in the game if biteforces were supposed to be calculated in actual N

alpine plover
#

Im so glad that punch confirmed deino most likely wont be buffed

#

some of these ideas for a deino buff would literally ruin the game TI_sucho

slim dragon
#

Just wait until rex is released and people ask for various buffs to it

inland gust
#

I got a little bit burnt due to the Deinosuchus hitboxes. As with a normal attack, and with an alternative one. Very annoying.

kind brook
#

Sounds like dramatic conjecture to me

#

Stegos destroying Deinos after multiple bites taken across a period of time isn't balance. So I don't see where balance comes in yet. Either buff Deino damage, or nerf Stego HP or HP regen.

golden coral
#

@kind brook The balance is fine. Stego does not need a nerf, if anything it could use a buff in health. Deino is not meant to hunt stegos. Is there an issue if stegos can "camp" the water. Yes, and fixable by better rivers, and maybe some extra stamina drain for an attack if you're standing in deep water. But by no means do deino need more damage.

#

There might be an hitbox issue for deino, but that is a different issue, and will no doubt be fixed if so.

kind brook
#

I disagree, a Stego shouldn't be able to survive seven adult Deinos within a span of thirty minutes, or rather outregen the damage they cause. My opinion.

golden coral
#

It can't

kind brook
#

Well it did

golden coral
#

If that happened, and you were all at least 80+% grown, you are all atrocious

kind brook
#

Good talk

golden coral
#

Sorry to say, but that is entirely on you being stupidly bad

#

Simple as that

#

Just do the math

#

You fourshot a stego on the head as grown deino, you eight shot it on body

kind brook
#

I can only speak for myself and my own skill, not for the others. You can't speak for any of it, so keep that to yourself.

golden coral
#

You got seven adult deinos, you could have swarmed it and killed it

#

I can speak for logic and reason

kind brook
#

Clearly it wasn't together

golden coral
#

I can speak for what the math says

#

Well then it doesnt count

#

Obviously

kind brook
#

Naw, you speak for your ego.

golden coral
#

Says the person not comprehending basic math and logic

kind brook
#

Done talking with you, you want to be an ass—you can do that with someone else.

golden coral
#

You're wrong, simple as that

kind brook
#

Get blocked.

golden coral
#

And I'm not being an ass, just being truthful

#

Yes yes, so much for having no argument

stoic token
#

I could understand if someone was like "yo i dont think you're playing that creature the right way. Ive better luck with (strategy)" but calling people atrocious isnt really the right thing to do.

golden coral
#

So how should I phrase it?

stoic token
golden coral
#

They claim a single stego killed seven adult deinos in the span of 30 minutes. That's just not possible unless they did all sorts of mistakes

#

Stego does not heal that fast for that matter

#

@stoic token Fair enough, but I'm tired by now of deino players just expecting, I don't even know. I know what the math says, I know how many hits it takes to kill, I've been wounded more than once. What that claim is, is just not reasonable to have happened unless there were something really wrong in how they approached the fight.

#

Even if all of them only got one or two body hits, that stego would have been dead before he reached the end of the line, unless he knew some magic way of speeding up healing that I don't know of.

stoic token
#

I see what you're saying. I'm on the side where everyone was expecting deinos to be able to handle bigger creatures like rexes/spinos. So in a way expecting it to have no real issues with stegos while in the water. (there is the fact that stegos can poke from such a far way because of the distended hitbox)

golden coral
#

I would agree "in the water"

#

But to me that means swimming

#

Or at least deep water

#

And I do think standing in deep water should double stamina drain

#

That would probably mitigate the issues a bit

stoic token
#

yeah thats something that could really make it better

golden coral
#

And hitbox issues I've also acknowledged

#

But still, I just find that scenario so..

stoic token
#

i think all there is right now is just the slowdown in deep water

golden coral
#

Yeah, I agree, I was an ass, but it sounds just too weird to be reasonable

#

Did they all just.. wait in a line for the stego to come by and take turns?.. I honestly do not get how that all played out to make one stego able to just plow through them all like that

#

Yeh, there is only the slow down

#

I think a stamina drain increase on attacks would be good

#

Not like you should want to be in deep water as a terrestial anyway

stoic token
#

i was a ptera around that time watching some fights go down. the deinos would come through the water about 2 at a time and the stego would walk into the water and kill them. maybe 3 mintues of resting between each fight.

#

it would wallow every 15 seconds basically so thats probly what stopped it from dying.

#

also a couple tentos would jump into the water and tailslam the deinos while they were stunlocked. felt bad for them honestly lmao

#

wasnt 100% stego damage i guess.

elfin snow
#

I find that stegos shouldnt be able to absolutely bully a water apex in my opinion, like sitting at the shore and taunting deino's on purpose, feels gross to me

#

But yeah 7 should definitely win, my buddies were 3 together and they won vs a stego

#

Unless they all ran onto land and the stego just walked away with its tail towards them idk

stoic token
#

yeah, its also an offical server. so herbies usually act like they are on drugs without any agression rules or anything.

elfin snow
#

yeah i had that issue right when I got on the stress servers

#

Forgot there's no rules so they ran up to me and attacked me and I was like oh shit I forgot there's no rules vs herbivores lmfao

stoic token
#

ive seen so many tentos finding and killing carno babies because reason. like how are you supposed to provide the feedback if you cant even make it to adult lmao

elfin snow
#

and died quite fast

kind brook
#

I forgot to say, the Stego had a Tenonto with it, hitting the Deinos from behind while the mess ensued. Either way it was over a span of time, when it was me, I had an 87% Deino with me and we both died. It was pretty crappy.

elfin snow
#

How did they get behind them? Did they go deep onto land?

#

Id assume so which is the problem

stoic token
#

shallowish water

kind brook
#

You remember that small river near the Central spawn area connecting with the river leading to the eastern Delta?

#

It's super shallow the entire way, start to finish

golden coral
#

@elfin snow Mind mentioning to that guy that I apologize for being an ass? They're right, I was being rude, but I just can't see how they managed this.

kind brook
#

That's where the Stego was perched

elfin snow
#

Idk I stay in water that they cant stand in and if they get out of that water/shore area, I say "welp that's that" and swim away lol

kind brook
#

Yeah, at the time I was just exploring and was too low to turn back (map change needed I think in general)

elfin snow
#

Erik says they apologize for being an ass to whoever blocked them and you were right they were rude and they just can't see how it happened as it did

elfin snow
kind brook
#

Oh thats nice of him, apology accepted.

Yeah I think it's going to be a delicate process but we'll see!

elfin snow
stoic token
#

it wasnt even the deino running up onto land. it was the stego chasing a group of deinos through the water they were too fat to swim in lol

kind brook
#

Lmao it was insane there were Deino corpses everywhere and I was wondering if it was real. Even saw some complaints about it in the Discord

elfin snow
golden coral
elfin snow
#

Anytime 😛

kind brook
#

I'd hate to see another legacy Rex so I'm fine with them being the way they are for awhile, I just hope there are tweaks.

stoic token
#

at least make them 1 shot a utah lmao

kind brook
#

Plus the Hope trailer makes them look like contenders but who knows

golden coral
#

They probably will in the future Kell

#

Unless the devs stick with the design idea

#

But deino would make more sense as a mid tier hunter, small tiers are perhaps not quite enough food, so oneshotting the smalls should be okay

stoic token
#

also the carno headbut should at least do soemthing to a fresh juvie stego. you headbut the baby and you are the one that takes damage.

elfin snow
#

Yeah I was quite surprised when I dragged a utah into the water and he was still alive after another 2 bites

golden coral
#

Wait, really?

stoic token
#

ye i believe the decreased the carnos weight in the last regular evrima patch

golden coral
#

It should knock it over if it's fresh, and otherwise stun it. I think carnos used to stun anything up to their own weight, and I don't think juvie stegos grow that fast.

#

Yes, but a carno is still 1.8K

elfin snow
#

Idk I saw someone headbutt a baby stego and it just flat out killed it and he ran away with the body in his mouth O.o

#

So idk what happened here

golden coral
#

That should be enough weight for a hatchling stego, and probably a bit into juvie too

stoic token
#

oh i headbut one waht was about knee height for a carno. it stunned me and i got hurt. then i bit it 3 times and it ran away.

golden coral
#

Don't recall off the top of my head how the weight goes

#

I guess it's possible it was bigger than it looked

#

Stego do have very high power and weight for it's size

elfin snow
#

I know I can only be confident to kill a sub adult stego cause I can still grab them, idk when they get to 4 tons but before then is when I can fight them

golden coral
#

Mostly I think cause it can't really run from anything xD

stoic token
#

possibly. was def smaller than an adult tento so i was like "okay easy kill"

golden coral
#

78%

#

Is where you reach 4.1

#

Or very close to that at least

elfin snow
#

My issue I had when I fought a stego for the first time is if they push right against your face, you cant exactly move, you'd have to either turn slowly and run and prob die or alt turn bite and get away but you'd still get annihilated, while the stego can attack facing you and turn around and beat the hell out of you and you wont do much dmg cause itd be a tail hit lol

#

I'd like to drag a stego slowly at the cost of stamina tbh, then at least if its not alone, another herd member can try and get the deino off of them

stoic token
#

whats the weight of a stego?

golden coral
#

Fully grown, 6 ton

#

Health is 4K I believe, and head multiplier 2.0

stoic token
#

and a deino cant drag a stego?

golden coral
#

Up until we reach 4.1 you can

#

So anything up to young adult stego can be grabbed

stoic token
#

that seems kinda wonky. deino weighs 8k. so i feel like it should be able to move a full stego

#

how you supposed to move it out of the water if you kill one?

golden coral
#

In pieces I guess? :p

stoic token
#

ohh you grab chunks?

golden coral
#

Or maybe you can drag it when it's dead like a normal body

elfin snow
#

yeah you grab chunks

golden coral
#

It's possible you can drag a dead stego like normal

#

But otherwise, yes, if a body is too heavy, you just grab bits

#

You can also eat in the water I think?

elfin snow
#

The only time I killed a full stego was when it tried crossing the water and I got it

#

No you cant

golden coral
#

At the surface?

elfin snow
#

You have to eat on the surface

#

and the bodies sink

golden coral
#

They do?!

elfin snow
#

Yup

#

Least for deinos idk

golden coral
#

That sounds opposite to what was intended..

elfin snow
#

Yup, they float slightly, then they drop to the bottom

golden coral
#

Might want to report that

elfin snow
#

My buddy saw it at the bottom and for me it was on the surface as well lol

#

Very very buggy lol

golden coral
#

Yeah, sounds like it needs a report, the entire point of floating bodies was so you could swim out and drag em to shore or grab pieces.. :p

#

No more food denial!

elfin snow
#

Lmfao well if a stego falls into the water and a carno wants to grab pieces, good fuckin luck lmfao

#

He'd either get eaten by a deino or he'd have to hope it didnt sink

alpine plover
#

Or just grab some flesh off it

elfin snow
#

Like I said the body sinks sometimes

#

Carno's can't swim under water last I checked lol

#

or utahs for that matter

golden coral
#

To be honest, if there's a dead stego in the water, I would not go near it as anything but deino :p

#

That's a big "food here", and well, why pass up another free meal if it comes along

stoic token
#

is deino able to grab a stego and pull it in? or too big?

golden coral
#

Half your weight

#

So anything but a young adult stego

stoic token
#

oh damn. so you really cant do much against a full stego then i guess

golden coral
#

So yes and no

#

You know, give me a moment

stoic token
#

those stegos are still camping the river killing deions lmao

#

wasnt sure if i had a chance or not

golden coral
#

@stoic token See DM. I can't promise any 100% success, but I like to think it could help you out.

#

At the very least you might get some ideas of what to try out

lament gale
#

what Mr.Jack put in feedback is exactly what ppl SHOULD be saying instead of "buff deino dmg to x amt of absurd dmg"

hollow canyon
#

Agreed, I think the main issue with Deino is that the lunge doesn't connect very well with animals and has a very narrow hitbox. It might need a bit of a buff there... perhaps although I'd wait with that until at least the next patch/update to the public branch as people might yet learn to utilise it properly after the update gets actually released.

wheat field
lament gale
#

it doesn't need to be 1000 though as some people are saying

#

deino is drag and drown, not sit and bite the animal till it's dead

dim radish
#

I think 1000 is quite too much, since I also fear how they are going to balance it with other aquatic animals added to the game like sucho and bary, which are not apex tier like the spoon for example

wheat field
thin herald
#

Stegos do not need a nerf

sinful cove
#

Yeah nerfing stego because of one matchup is a stupid ass idea

stray cypress
#

Buff deino makes sense though, ive seen stegos win against 3 adult deinos and that really doesnt make sense

#

8 tonne croc being bullied by a stegosaur

sinful cove
#

Deino's lunge/grab can definitely use some help to make it stronger in the water without turning it into land croc, i dont think his bite needs a buff though, not a significant one at least

#

Stego will need a buff when bigger predators come too, nerfing it would turn it into fodder later on

stray cypress
#

I had moments where stegos just swam through river not giving a shit about the multiple adult deinos and they managed to make it to the other side with us biting it the whole way

sinful cove
#

Yeah it needs better utility in the water

spark hazel
#

Did you guys stun the stego with Lunge?

stray cypress
#

cant lunge in water if your not touching the ground

spark hazel
#

You can

stray cypress
#

cant

spark hazel
#

Yes

#

I did

stark knoll
#

its a water dash

#

doesnt grab anything

spark hazel
#

Oh

stark knoll
#

you can only grab when touching the ground

stray cypress
#

grab hitbox on the lunge is also bad the ammount of times ive lunged through something is too high

spark hazel
#

Well then lunge at them there you can

sinful cove
#

When fractures come maybe deino can munch on the legs of swimming stegs to slow them down too

#

Who knows until all these mechanics are in i guess

spark hazel
#

Tbh i think Deino should be able to drag stegos that are swimming and thats it

slim dragon
#

Fractures will probably do wonders for deino's combat capabilities
Assuming it gets some fracture damage to its bite

stray cypress
#

It feels weird that it cant grab swimming dinos

#

altho that might be op

sinful cove
#

I mean it'd make a lot of sense for deino to get fractures as a more balanced way to represent his insane bite force without turning him into land croc

#

So we can hope he gets it

#

If rex gets it when he eventually comes theres no excuse for deino not to have it

stray cypress
#

Deino should be able to monch bones when that update comes if it doesnt ill be upset

lament gale
#

prepare to be upset LOL

sinful cove
#

Always am TI_DeinoMischief

crude sluice
#

honestly a full grown deino can bite a carno 3-4 times and carnos fine, the bite force currently for deino is much to weak

sinful cove
#

It should be able to drag the carno into the water and drown its ass but its bite doesnt need a damage buff, at least not right now. Only fracture when that comes.

twilit marlin
#

i think it will make more sense with fractures.

#

I am worried though, you have a 50/50 chance of making it out if you get dragged in the water now, if you have broken legs also it will turn into a guaranteed death sentence.

lament gale
#

again, deino is all abt dragging and drowning. not sitting there and biting

#

you'll kill the carno simply by keeping it underwater because it has trouble getting away from you IN water

#

ppl that want deino to do 1k+ dmg are just mad that it isnt water rex

twilit marlin
#

yeah lol, it frustrates me as a utah player because every matchup has some crazy strong attack like the teno/steggo tails. Everything basically oneshots you.

#

maybe not oneshot but massive damage all the same

lament gale
#

either way, it oneshotting the likes of stego is out of the realm of possibility

#

animals oneshotting something of similar size is just bad balance overall

twilit marlin
#

in a brawl for sure

#

i think theres a place for one or two oneshot ambush attacks

#

the lunge is a good example

lament gale
#

not of similar sized animals, no lol

twilit marlin
#

i think the problem is the deino isnt a fighter, way too slow to go toe to toe with anything really. it has to ambush or fight in the water itself

lament gale
#

yes, and drag in, to drown

#

the only reason why its having trouble with stego is because its drag mechanic isnt in yet

#

once thats in, it'll be a tug of war and on more even ground

wheat field
#

Let me make this abundantly clear for all Deino Buffers and Deino Balancers Deino DOESN’T need an extreme Biteforce buff, however it does need a biteforce buff in general to help with how powerful the stego is, now I am not at all suggesting deino should 1-5 shot stego, deino needs a small buff to his biteforce such as a range to 600-700 anything above that is absolutely crazy anything below that is inconsequential, deino should have a tremendous advantage to dinos such as stegosaurus that rely on their tail attacks when they are in the water and in the water ONLY

#

Stegos are currently camping bodies of water with their tail sticking into it and whacking any deinos they see, stegos need to fear deinos in larger groups yet they don’t it is completely inconsequential and ignore deino as are able to kill numerous amounts of deino with no repercussions

#

Also the hitbox for deino needs to be fixed 😓

twilit marlin
#

in that scenario the deinos are letting themselves be killed. anything that runs near a stegoos tail deserves what they get.

lament gale
#

^

#

just swim away lol

wheat field
wheat field
lament gale
#

why are you in shallow waters as a deino 🤨

twilit marlin
#

so go around

lament gale
#

y'all try to play it like rex lol. thats the biggest issue

wheat field
lament gale
#

there are deepr waterways LOL

#

like

#

if you're caught out in the open, on land or in shallow waters, thats on you m8

wheat field
wheat field
twilit marlin
#

id just go across land, its surprising how sneaky deinos can be

#

it would probably take longer than swimming lol

wheat field
lament gale
#

then, dont go to the swamp?

#

like

wheat field
lament gale
#

center is the current hotspot lmao

twilit marlin
#

what do you mean suicide?

wheat field
lament gale
#

center is not a swamp

#

its a long, deep river that runs through the plains

wheat field
# twilit marlin what do you mean suicide?

There are two ways deino is able to feed, cannibalism or cannibalism, deinos go to swamp live off of other deinos if they don’t get to the swamp in time they usually die of starvation cause elite fish do not spawn everywhere and give little food

twilit marlin
#

how much does a big fish feed % wise? i have seen rivers tripping with these fish

lament gale
#

deino can legit live off the fish wat

wheat field
twilit marlin
#

also obviously there is going to be an ai food shortage at a hostspot.

wheat field
lament gale
#

i've seen, a multitude of deinos run at me ON LAND as a stego

twilit marlin
#

lol

wheat field
lament gale
#

ok

#

doesnt change the fact that deinos can just

#

swim away from a stego

#

if you're caught out in the open

#

thats on you m8

wheat field
#

Aight hold with me right

lament gale
#

dont know what else to tell you

twilit marlin
#

i have been chased on land as a utah, its like wtf are you doing

wheat field
#

No arguing just listen

lament gale
#

not arguing, literally just saying the easiest way to avoid death by stego

wheat field
#

Bro shh and listen

lament gale
#

by staying in or close to the water, and just, swimming away

wheat field
#

If a stego swims through water right

#

Deinos roll up

#

The deino should have an advantage in the water right cause stego only has bite to defend

lament gale
#

yes? more often then not thats how stegos die

wheat field
#

No, stego can completely ignore deinos and swim away

lament gale
#

if the deino is biting its tail yeah

#

go in from the front

#

you do more dmg to the head

wheat field
#

I have seen 3 adult deinos try to absolutely merc a stego and fail while in the water cause it just swims the runs away

twilit marlin
#

can't you lunge it if its swimming?

lament gale
#

because they were prob on its tail? lol

wheat field
wheat field
twilit marlin
#

thats the fix right there

stark knoll
#

stego has one of the slowest swim speeds in the game

wheat field
lament gale
#

no they cant LOL

#

if you hit them right they'll more then likely be under half

stark knoll
#

i find it hard to believe that 3 adult deinos could find a stego in the water and not kill it unless they had no idea what they were doing

lament gale
#

^

#

also yeah

#

it literally just sounds like bad deinos lmao

#

i lost a stego the other day cause they ganged up on me in the water

#

not that hard

clever quiver
#

body blocking is a thing too... u can physically stop stego from getting to shore easily just by going in front of it

#

box em in LMAO

stark knoll
#

lets say deino hits once per second

#

3x500 is 1500

wheat field
lament gale
#

like wider and deeper rivers, + a drag mechanic would help deino more then dmg would overall

stark knoll
#

how much health does stego have?

wheat field
clever quiver
stark knoll
#

so lets say 5000

#

with 3 deinos thats 3 seconds to kill

#

so

twilit marlin
#

can they bite once per second?

wheat field
twilit marlin
#

i thought they were slower than that

wheat field
stark knoll
lament gale
#

so thats a collision thing

#

not a dmg thing

wheat field
stark knoll
#

yea collision is a separate issue

lament gale
#

again, why buff dmg if the mechanic itself is buggy lol

#

doesnt make any sense

wheat field
#

Thats all i know

clever quiver
stark knoll
#

its always needed to be looked at, and will be a WIP for a while

wheat field
lament gale
#

so where does the dmg buff come in

wheat field
#

This could be a possibility, hear me out

lament gale
#

cause all im really seeing from this whole fiasco is; deinos need to stop playing like a rex and actually swim away from the shit they cant hunt lol

wheat field
#

Deino biting box is too small and may not register hits, but idk

wheat field
alpine plover
twilit marlin
#

i thinks that a problem with all dinos, the bite box

wheat field
#

However deino does less dmg than a carno in terms of raw dmg

twilit marlin
#

utahs is horrible

#

you have to bite stupid early

lament gale
#

so? you'll kill the carno by drowning it m8

#

you dont need to do a shitton of raw dmg if you're faster then everything in the water

wheat field
stark knoll
#

whats carnos dmg rn? on the character screen?

alpine plover
wheat field
#

Still does more damage strangely

stark knoll
lament gale
#

lol

wheat field
#

Tested it out on a Stress test server

#

Deino bites stego head takes more shots weirdly

lament gale
#

or you're just hitting the body

#

which, again

twilit marlin
#

carno is a capable fighter and can apply its bites to things

lament gale
#

is a hitbox thing

#

not a raw dmg thing

twilit marlin
#

and can spam its bite really fast

stark knoll
#

which is a separate issue

wheat field
stark knoll
#

now, are you sure you were hitting the body

#

because given how low deino is

wheat field
stark knoll
#

its very possible those were leg shots

lament gale
#

lmao

wheat field
#

Ima have a stroke

toxic crypt
#

Doesn't deino technically 1 shot most things near the water because of the grab?

lament gale
#

yes

wheat field
lament gale
#

but it doesnt 1 shot one thing

#

must be buffed

wheat field
#

I don’t care about that

#

At all

#

No one does

#

Hopefully

toxic crypt
#

Bull.

lament gale
#

i've seen lots of ppl complaining abt it

wheat field
#

Some people are a little challenged

lament gale
#

half the ppl wanting deino to do 1k+ dmg are salty it doesnt one shot stego

wheat field
#

The people who want 1k are stupid

clever quiver
#

they die to stego once and the game is bunk 😂

wheat field
#

End of story

twilit marlin
#

preach

toxic crypt
#

Only thing I think deino needs is fracture, and even then it doesn't need it

stark knoll
#

there are many many people who were expecting and want water rex

wheat field
toxic crypt
#

I want it, I think having a fracture mechanic and not giving it to the animals that would deal fracture damage is stupid, but deino doesn't need fracture

lament gale
#

good thing its a game

wheat field
lament gale
#

and deino is a drowner, not a facetanker like rex

#

it doesnt

toxic crypt
#

To be fair, biteforce =/= how devastating the bite is

lament gale
#

bonebreak would just be more leeway for bad deino players lol

stark knoll
twilit marlin
#

hurr i can oneshot a rex buff deino

#

cant*

lament gale
#

you didnt lunge properly and drag it in all the way, well the animal has bb so now you can just facetank it

toxic crypt
#

Biteforce is just how hard they bite, how many bones they'll break. Doesn't translate to raw damage.

wheat field
#

Deino doesn’t need to one shot hut it needs better raw dmg then carno and needs to be able to compete with stego while in the water

toxic crypt
lament gale
#

you get what i mean

stark knoll
wheat field
#

Bonebreak not fracture

toxic crypt
#

It's called the fracture mechanic on the trello, isn't it?

wheat field
#

No one be open for discussion just shutdowns immediately

stark knoll
# wheat field Bonebreak not fracture

may i direct you https://trello.com/c/ODbi3yvf/24-fractures

Trello
Fractures

Snap, crackle and pop! Fractures are going to be splintering their way into the game. Gone are the days of the so often infuriating bone-break mechanic of old that was in many ways, an automatic death sentence. Fractures have a range from mild to severe. Hindering your character accordingly. But also have more ways to be both applied and mitigat...

Labels

Not Started, Mechanic

wheat field
#

Otherway around haha

#

Sorry

lament gale
#

either way, deino doesnt need it lol

#

maybe on the low end of fracture

#

but not anything like rex

twilit marlin
#

why not buff steggos bite so it can actually fight back in water?

lament gale
#

buff stegos jab since it doesnt have a proper swing troll

toxic crypt
#

Nah, I think deino should deal high fracture if it's as manageable as that tidbit suggests

wheat field
twilit marlin
#

im just joking around

toxic crypt
#

Personally, I'm hoping fracture is weight based so that if a para kicks something as tiny as a velo, the velo breaks something

wheat field
stark knoll
#

i want to see how fracture works before i ever consider giving it to deino tbh

lament gale
#

same

stark knoll
#

stego needs a swing dude

twilit marlin
#

the animation is a bit weird

wheat field
toxic crypt
#

I think it'd be more than a bit daft to add a fracture mechanic, but not apply it to animals which did remarkable bone damage

lament gale
#

i just think it really doesnt need it

toxic crypt
#

It's like adding flight, but not giving it to a ptera

twilit marlin
#

steggo has a strong tail do you think that would make it a strong swimmer?

toxic crypt
#

Or adding armor but not giving it to anky

wheat field
#

Deino is gonna get a buff either way, whether people want him to or not he is getting one when the updates start rolling out for other semi-aquatics and mid-tiers

lament gale
#

animals like rex do need it, since they are sort of actively fighting animals that can kill it just as easily

#

deino?

#

bro just drags and drowns

stark knoll
#

yea i agree the bite damage should be looked at once larger animal are added, but imo it shouldnt be increased much, and it may not need to be increased at all

toxic crypt
#

And yet it still has a bite attack apart from the drag, squishy

lament gale
#

sadly

#

a drag mechanic will be good for it

#

will even out deino v stego

stark knoll
#

deino can lunge and drown (1shot) anything half its weight, which is 4 or less tons. thats a lot of the roster

twilit marlin
#

it cant be so strong that it oneshots a utah on land even later on

wheat field
lament gale
#

it cant in water?

stark knoll
#

it cant while swimming

lament gale
#

oh

wheat field
stark knoll
#

it has to touch the ground to grab

lament gale
#

oh

#

thats a bit weird

#

meh

toxic crypt
#

I do think it's important to note that the fracture mechanic on trello's only real mentioned feature is that it's not meant to be an insta death sentence like old bonebreak

stark knoll
#

so technically yes, you can lunge something that is swimming. but itll be harder due to the angles

twilit marlin
#

oh right so you can lunge something if its swimming?

stark knoll
#

i think being able to grab while swimming is a bit of a necessity imo

lament gale
#

it is

#

deeper and wider rivers too

stark knoll
toxic crypt
#

Also, we have locational damage is a thing so I don't see why locational fracture damage wouldn't

lament gale
#

something like the lazy river below great falls on v3

#

that would be good for deino

safe anchor
#

with the small raptor killing deino,all you need to do is go into the water or Alt bite fixes everything

civic moth
slim dragon
#

That video of utah vs deino is weird
Why didn't the deino use alt bite ?

civic moth
#

Idk he is just bad

twilit marlin
#

even with alt bite its just too slow to hit a utah

civic moth
#

but the thing that I wanted to show was the lack of colision.

slim dragon
civic moth
#

I mean, if you couldn't travel the animal it would work.

slim dragon
#

But yeah, the absence of collision is pretty obvious

twilit marlin
#

i was biting an adult deino as a juvi utah for like 20 mins

#

just danced around him all day

slim dragon
#

But I think it's a bug, probably due to the smallness of the utah

civic moth
#

Anyway it is to correct

slim dragon
#

anyway deino is shite out of water, an utah smart enough to dodge the bites of a deino stupid enough to stay out of water deserves to win

twilit marlin
#

its really easy to evade the deino

civic moth
#

Ngl, I also kind of hope that Deinosuchus gets the grab on land and while swimming..

slim dragon
#

I've even once won against an adult deino with a juvie ptera

stark knoll
slim dragon
#

But a lil tail slap couldn't hurt tho

civic moth
#

I doubt an Utah deserves to win against a Deino in any circumstances.

stark knoll
#

its just has a much shorter range

civic moth
#

Oh didn't know that, thanks.

stark knoll
#

np!

slim dragon
#

Any dino should deserve to win against any other if the skill gap is large enough

twilit marlin
#

heres the real debate, adult ptera needs a buff because it gets bodied by freshspawn utahs

slim dragon
#

Maybe except for some very specific cases

stark knoll
#

ptera is a paper kite

slim dragon
twilit marlin
#

yeah but literally <5% utahs can kll them

#

they think they can win because its a freshspawn so they fight

#

they dont do enough damage

stark knoll
#

then they learn they lose and they dont try to facetank again

slim dragon
#

Ah yes, the damage
Ptera damage really seems incredibly low

civic moth
#

Like, Deinosuchus is a large crocodylian with massive osteoderms which an huge mass difference.

It may be immune to Utah attacks actually lol. That's like asking for Troodon to win against Allosaurus in 1v1 if the guy is too dumb. There are things that should be possible and things that should not. If you want to do a specific action then take another animal.

twilit marlin
#

you can even tank a hit from the ptera as a freshspawn

civic moth
#

Nah, Pteranodon doesn't need of a damage buff.

slim dragon
#

But I'm afraid giving it higher damage might make it op

civic moth
#

Like at all.

#

it could even deserve a nerf.

stark knoll
#

a lot of people dont seem to realize ptera has an alt bite like deino and utah

slim dragon
#

Since ptera can avoid any fight and, even if it decides to fight, dodge every single hit from its opponent with ease

twilit marlin
#

tbh i cant think of a senario where the ptera should be fighting

slim dragon
stark knoll
#

be able to bite something right behind/next to you

civic moth
#

Ptera has the option to 100% escape except if no stams, so yeah it should not fight.

stark knoll
#

easy redirection, basically

#

just like the rest of the alt bites

slim dragon
#

But you need to be on land to use it
And ptera really shouldn't be fighting on land

civic moth
#

It shouldn't fight at all

#

like Dryosaurus except against less 50kg Utahs.

lament gale
#

if anything dryo and ptera need nerfs LOL

civic moth
#

So juveniles.

lament gale
#

least in the dmg department

civic moth
#

Squishy

#

I agree

lament gale
#

dryo more so

civic moth
#

75 damages

#

:kek:

lament gale
#

yeah LOL

#

faster then utah too

#

swarms can annihilate utahs

civic moth
#

4

twilit marlin
#

how much does hypsy do?

civic moth
#

25

#

or 20

#

20

slim dragon
#

wait hypsi can attack ?

lament gale
#

its slowerish though

#

yeah

civic moth
#

It can

twilit marlin
#

I need to try blinding some pteras in flight

stark knoll
#

its got a little peck

lament gale
#

i mean dryo killing utah will never not be really funny but, yknow

#

LOL

civic moth
#

Like, Dryo damages should be of 5, Ptera same and Hypsi 1.

lament gale
#

it does need a nerf in the dmg department

twilit marlin
#

the utah?

slim dragon
civic moth
#

Why?

#

They can flee anything.

slim dragon
#

Against each other for example ?

civic moth
#

They do not need to.

#

I mean

slim dragon
#

I know they're herbies, but every kind of situations happen

civic moth
#

their attacks are peaks

twilit marlin
#

even if they can flee they still need to be able to attack, what if they get a bleed? then they can run so easiler and may be forced to attack

civic moth
#

No herbivore means nothing powerwise.

slim dragon
#

And damage so low is just stupid
an ant bite hurts more

lament gale
#

if anything they should have a stationary kick as the big dmg dealer

#

not a peck

twilit marlin
#

oh god my spellings bad today forgive me

slim dragon
#

This is a game of life and death, everything should have a weapon

twilit marlin
#

^

civic moth
#

Weapon can be run

slim dragon
#

No, because running can't kill

twilit marlin
#

they cant always run

slim dragon
#

Running is the opposite of a weapon

civic moth
#

Why do you need to kill when you can avoid anything ?

twilit marlin
#

what if you are bit and are bleeding? they will tack you down.

#

no matter how far you run

civic moth
#

If you've been caught then my bad for you

twilit marlin
#

be agressive

civic moth
#

you're dead