#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 230 of 1

alpine plover
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Don't stegos have to angle their tails downwards in the first place?

drowsy gorge
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it looks big but bc its so shallow for a good distance in the river until its deep it is small for them

alpine plover
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AND they have a attack cool don

drowsy gorge
alpine plover
toxic crypt
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So just swim above them then, chumlee

alpine plover
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the tail is pointed down

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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The tails are pointed to the river floor, just swim along the surface

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Stegos to my knowledge cannot swing their tails up

drowsy gorge
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again it was not 90 degrees down

toxic crypt
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Also, with how you describe it why couldn't you have just serpentined?

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If you did a serpentine at the surface, you'd have been fine

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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Well from what you describe the river wasn't so wide that the stego was blocking the entire way

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and again, they can't swing upwards

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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you could've swam just at the surface and serpentined out of them

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The central giant river?

drowsy gorge
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no the entrance to the swamp that has that log

toxic crypt
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I wasn't talking about that

drowsy gorge
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thought you asked were I was

toxic crypt
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Sounds to me like a non-issue. I still think you could have swam along the surface

drowsy gorge
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ok the whole point of this was not to complain about how I died but to complain about how a tail can reach 40ft under water and deal the same dmg as on land

toxic crypt
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That's also a non-problem

drowsy gorge
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how

toxic crypt
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Idk how the hell they were swinging, but you could've easily dodged

drowsy gorge
#

again now what the original post was

toxic crypt
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Stego swings are restricted to the horizontal, and if they tilt to aim into the water you can easily just swim away

drowsy gorge
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thats not the point

toxic crypt
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Also, how in the hell would the game know whether the tail was in water?

drowsy gorge
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tail already has a hit box

toxic crypt
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That isn't how the water works to my knowledge

drowsy gorge
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wdym

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just add a few lines of code and done

toxic crypt
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I still don't see how they're hooking you like a fish

drowsy gorge
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spikes on the tail

toxic crypt
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That isn't a real thing that is happening. You encountered a super niche situation (which it sounds like you could've escaped) and are asking for a full-blown mechanic to fix it.

drowsy gorge
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again not complaining about my death, i am complaining that a tail should not be able to deal the same dmg in water as on land

toxic crypt
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Again, that isn't a needed feature

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Your death was super niche and stegos aren't doing that regularly

dapper frost
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that also sounds like it would gimp aquatics

toxic crypt
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At the most, it just prevents them from retaliating to any failed deino attacks

drowsy gorge
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it is as knowing this community if they find out about this on a big scale like the old hit box problem on the stego it will be exploited

toxic crypt
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Right, maybe at the one weirdly shaped river

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that isn't possible on the majority of the map

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it's a non-issue

drowsy gorge
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again not my original complaint

toxic crypt
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it is tho

drowsy gorge
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is it now? can you read my mind?

toxic crypt
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because your original complaint isn't applicable anywhere else

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There is not a single other situation in the game where your complaint would have any noticeable and beneficial consequences

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It's super niche and was brought on by an intensely niche situation

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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No, not unless it is the exact river you've specified

drowsy gorge
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nope

toxic crypt
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Yep

drowsy gorge
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explain then

toxic crypt
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Thinking of the central river right now

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If a stego were to be deep enough to swing underwater

drowsy gorge
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stop thinking about my death

toxic crypt
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you would be able to swim above the tail

drowsy gorge
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thats not what we are talking about

toxic crypt
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Your death is the only time this would ever be applicable

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You just said it's about "stego sees/knows were a deino is under water in deep water it can kill/severely harm it"

dapper frost
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this is such a non issue because if stegos start actually doing that strat deinos would immediately move upon sight of them making their plan useless

drowsy gorge
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so your saying that a stego can NEVER kill a deino with its tail under water

toxic crypt
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@dapper frost did I say that?

dapper frost
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i was talking to chumlee

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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I'm referring to what chumlee said

dapper frost
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oh

toxic crypt
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think I suggested that stego is unable to harm a deino in water

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here, lemme draw a horrible diagram

dapper frost
drowsy gorge
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its gonna be about my death I bet

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for the time being yes but its still an exploit and that you cant say no to

alpine plover
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just avoid the tail

toxic crypt
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Look at that deino, safely swimming

unknown.png
drowsy gorge
# alpine plover not really

again if a stego can clear a river with out even doing anything just bc its there and the reason is for this problem then its an exploit

toxic crypt
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Because if the stegos are at all on a slope, they cannot swing upwards at the deino

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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the tails could be of infinite length and they still would not contact

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unless, of course, you were in a super shallow river as in your death, chumlee

dapper frost
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chumlee we arent saying for the interaction to stay the same, the point is that its so easy to avoid

toxic crypt
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But in almost every other situation the deino is fine

drowsy gorge
# alpine plover Then buff deino

i would like to see a buffed deino but that still does not fix the problem. and you fail to see that this community will NOT respect each other. you have hypsi's attacking carnos rn, you think thats respect

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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what are you even talking about

alpine plover
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I said that deino and stego should respect each other BALANCE wise

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I don't get how you don't understand it

drowsy gorge
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and that still wont do anything

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let me explain

toxic crypt
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I think it's one of your best ideas ever, dio

alpine plover
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I think he just doesn't get what I mean

dapper frost
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it will, because if deinos are buffed to where they can actually deal with stegos in some cases stegos wont stick their tail in the water 24/7

toxic crypt
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Not that it was even that big of an issue to begin with, but it would become less of an issue

dapper frost
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yeah

alpine plover
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Like it basically solve solves hes problem

toxic crypt
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Personally I'm cool with a deino that does little hp damage once it gets fracture. Until then, I think it should deal more hp damage

alpine plover
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There won't BE stegos bullying deinso by the shore if deino can do something about it

drowsy gorge
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you have hypsi's attacking carnos right now. who do you think wins in a fight? the carno right, so even though one might be better then the other, we as players will still try to attack the stronger dino, so lets say "i know its not going to happen its just hypothetical" that the deino is stronger, well stegos are still going to attack and use this exploit if they learn it, we as players are not animals and will not respect each other the way you are thinking

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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I'd be down with that

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It is an ambusher, so it makes sense

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Neither do I

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it seems entirely unrelated

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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it isn't an exploit

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it's a normal fucking mechanic

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You just had some people use it cleverly on you in a very specific and niche scenario

alpine plover
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Adding a water slow down effect to stegos attacks is dumb

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Because the water you were in WAS SHALLOW

drowsy gorge
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that again does not fix that there is still an exploit

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if you think 40ft is shallow then i am sorry for you

toxic crypt
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IT ISN'T AN EXPLOIT THO, BRO

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If it were 40 ft you'd be able to swim over their tails, chumlee

alpine plover
dapper frost
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It does, because if people can now counter said "exploit" it won't be done

drowsy gorge
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I EXPLAINED 7 FUCKING TIMES I AM NOT EXPLAINING AGAIN

toxic crypt
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It flat out isn't an exploit, it's a normal use of a normal mechanic

alpine plover
drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
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see how in deep water even the infini-stegos can't reach the deino on the surface?

unknown.png
alpine plover
alpine plover
drowsy gorge
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holy shit

toxic crypt
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If it were 40ft they would not be able to hit you

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They could have literally infinitely long tails and it wouldn't matter

drowsy gorge
alpine plover
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And even then, my idea of making it so stego respect deinos would FIX IT

toxic crypt
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You've explained nothing

drowsy gorge
alpine plover
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Since stegos wont be bullying them on the shores because deino could FIGHT BACK

toxic crypt
drowsy gorge
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I legit cant make a point with people who have short term memory lose of the sentence they read 10min ago

dapper frost
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can you at least make an argument and not insult our intelligence 45 👍

drowsy gorge
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you guys have insulted mine

toxic crypt
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The stegos could be given tail hitboxes which stretched into infinity and they still would be unable to attack the deino swimming on the surface at the middle of the river

dapper frost
alpine plover
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Your suggestion makes 0 sense

In a situation where it would work (deep water) STEGO CANT REACH DEINO

in a situation where the water is shallow, then how would that even work? Like the moment stegos tail gets CLOSE to water it just slows down? Could cause massive issues for something that the deino could still avoid

toxic crypt
alpine plover
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It was 1 guy

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and hes long gone TI_GarboSquint

drowsy gorge
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you guys can make up your own solution that wont fix an exploit, i am gonna go do something productive

toxic crypt
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Bruh.

alpine plover
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Mine at least soft fixes it

toxic crypt
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Imagine saying we're stupid when you very distinctly ignore all counter points to your argument

drowsy gorge
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and yours does? my directly targets the problem yours just buffs a dino

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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It is literally impossible for us to debate with you because you are blatantly ignoring us

drowsy gorge
dapper frost
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a buff that solves the problem is much better than creating an entire new mechanic for such a non issue

drowsy gorge
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bc its to hard to code

alpine plover
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I just explained

toxic crypt
alpine plover
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Scroll up

drowsy gorge
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it does not solve the fucking action of the exploit

toxic crypt
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For the 3rd time?

alpine plover
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herp also explained

toxic crypt
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It isn't an exploit

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it's literally just attacking on land

drowsy gorge
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WHAT

toxic crypt
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in a shallow puddle

drowsy gorge
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WHEN DID WE TALK ABOUT THIS ON LAND

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i am done

alpine plover
dapper frost
toxic crypt
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the stegos are on land, they are standing

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if the stegos were swimming they'd be unable to swing

lament cloak
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is the guy who said stegos tail reaches 40 ft still arguing with you guys? I have him blocked so I cant tell

alpine plover
dapper frost
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yes

alpine plover
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This entire thing was assuming that the stego was on land

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why is it suddenly NOT on land?

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This is so confusing

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I'm done to

autumn falcon
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Call me biased, but I dont know how you could assume someone with the iron cross, a hammer and sickle, and a lenny face in their name could be making much sense

toxic crypt
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My picture isn't even accurate if he wants to claim the river is 40ft deep

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the slopes of the river would either have to be much steeper or the river much wider

alpine plover
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^

toxic crypt
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In either scenario the deino could avoid the infini-stegos

autumn falcon
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So, what was he claiming? There were stegos on either side of the river just constantly swinging their tails in the water?

alpine plover
autumn falcon
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If you were even marginally deep, wouldnt they just not even know when something was in the water?

alpine plover
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And even then stegos tail attack as a cool down timer

alpine plover
autumn falcon
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I mean, sure theres spots where the water is kinda shallow

alpine plover
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His solution was to make it so stego tail attack slows down in water

autumn falcon
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Could he not

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idk

alpine plover
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But since the water is shallow, how would his idea work?

autumn falcon
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turn around?

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Just not go that way?

alpine plover
autumn falcon
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This is sounding very made up

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Like, he fabricated this to cause outrage in himself

alpine plover
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It could happen

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but its sooo avoidable

toxic crypt
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I'm sure if the stegos ninja-capture you then you are indeed fucked. It's a bit odd to complain though

autumn falcon
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If there are 4 stegos cordinating to that level to trap you in the water and try and kill you, you deserve to die

alpine plover
autumn falcon
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"Man, that was wild." Respawn

alpine plover
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TI_Wheeze This isn't really on topic anymore though, so we should stop

lament cloak
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@void marten while yes, deino had a far greater bite force than what is shown in game, but that numbers only purpose is to go into the damage formula and isnt supposed to resemble what irl deino actually had

void marten
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Fair, again I'm not sure how it translates into code so I plugged in what I know, I mostly wanted to get my point across. @lament cloak

golden coral
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@void marten Why do you need a grapple, isn't the lunge doing it's job well enough?

proud swan
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can somebody explain what this issue is with stegos hitting crocs underwater with their tail? it all seems fragmented, maybe draw a handy picture for reference

void marten
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@golden coral I believe it would make the game more dynamic and interesting especially in the future when larger dinos are added, especially in the combat aspect

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Also means deino has a chance to get bigger game

golden coral
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Maybe, but what is it supposed to do that the lunge isn't doing?

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Is it just a visual difference you want?

void marten
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Make sure your prey doesn't escape as easily, a large issue I've noticed

golden coral
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But.. the lunge does that already? That's what the mechanic is, you lunge, grab something, and drag it into the water to drown it?

void marten
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No, it's just a hard hitting attack that takes a lot of stam rn

golden coral
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No it's not..

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How do you use it?

lament cloak
golden coral
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Cause I'm thinking you're missing a part of it if you only see it as an attack

void marten
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Though you do auto grab somthing if you kill it and it's small enough

golden coral
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Do you just click RMB or hold it?

lament cloak
golden coral
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What Piggy is saying. You click, and HOLD rmb, to grab something up to 4T (if you're fully grown), you then turn around, and drag it into and under the water, to promtply drown it. This works for everything up to young adult stego (who is above 4T at that point).

void marten
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Oh ok, 1st off I'm a bit dum sry, 2nd off I think mechanics should be implemented to extend it to larger dinos too

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Like the if you grab a carno as a freshy it drags you instead

golden coral
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No worries, I figured this might be another case of not knowing exactly how a mechanic works. It's not unsual to be fair, it's not always easy to get how you're supposed to do stuff. But there is info in announcement channel for all the new movement.

void marten
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I guess I didn't see that apologies

golden coral
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And yeh, better drag mechanic would be cool, but we'll have to wait for now. But as it stands, as a fully grown deino, you can drag and drown anything except adult stego, basically oneshotting it.

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As long as you get it's head underwater, so keep that in mind, drag them where the water is deep enough, or you'll just carry them around for a bit :p

lament cloak
frosty heron
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The fact you can only lunge on dinos half your weight it's pretty ok to be honest, if you have experience on the game you will know what you can grab and what you cannot

hollow canyon
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You can absolutely grab a fully grown Carnotaurus as a Deinosuchus. Are you sure you're holding RMB? If you just press it you won't grab the animal you will just hit it.

golden coral
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@void marten No need to apologize, you did nothing wrong. Now go out there and try it out properly, and then see what you think. Remember, half your weight, so keep an eye on your own, max carnotaurus is 1800 I think, max tenonto 1600, utah 500(?), so you can know about when you can grab a fully grown one.

frosty heron
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Yeah Utah its 500 now

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You can grab them at 30% grown Deino which should weight around 1000 to 1300 kg

lament cloak
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and also, alot of people overestimate the amount of damage crocodile bites actually do, their mouths are meant to grab things, not straight up kill them. even modern day crocs dont just insta kill young cheetahs

void marten
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Not saying insta kill, but you have to admit that they do a crap ton of damage

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Even relatively small crocs can break bone fairly well

lament cloak
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ik, im just going off higher estimates here that I got from google

toxic crypt
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I don't like the equating biteforce irl to how much damage an animal should do

lament cloak
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so basically a big nile croc is 1700 pounds which translates to 800 kg

toxic crypt
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Deino's high biteforce would preferrably cause it to deal max fracture damage, and I do think it needs a stronger blank damage, but to base it off of the irl biteforce numbers is a bit goofy

stark knoll
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1kg=2.2lbs

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sorry did i say 300 i just woke up

golden coral
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Hey, luna is blue now... that's new.. :p

lament cloak
stark knoll
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all good, conversions are hard to keep track of

toxic crypt
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I think it's best to think of an animals bite in three axises, axees?
How bleedy is it, how damagy is it, and how breaky is it?

lament cloak
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a big cheetah weighs 160 pounds which translates to 72 kg

toxic crypt
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Personally I think deino's grab mechanic help represent the actual form of a croc's teeth; to grab things

lament cloak
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im not allowed to post it but I saw a video where a cheetah cub was taken down by a croc, (idk how big that croc was) and the cub easily had plenty of energy to fight back, basically what im trying to say here is croc bites arent nearly as devastating as people think

toxic crypt
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I do think it is lacking damagy, but to put it at 20,000 for damagy-ness would be OP because I don't think that's anywhere near anything else.

void marten
toxic crypt
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A high biteforce should be manifested as a high fracture damage on animals of similar size

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I'm holding out hope that fracture is weight based so anything can deal it to something magnitudes smaller than it, but something like deino's bite should be nearly on par with anky's tail imo

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I do think it's goofy that stego and deino only 1 shot utah on the head, though. And I certainly think deino should be a major threat to carnos

void marten
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Well why not, dieno has a high bite force higher than rex and rex dies leg break fir some reason despite being generally too tall to do so consistently

void marten
lament cloak
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perhaps deino should do some pretty hefty bleed, i mean those teeth are huge, and it would help to deter carnos and utahs.

toxic crypt
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20,000 biteforce is not irl numbers though, it's just how much damage it deals

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Not once fracture comes in

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Honestly, I'd prefer it have higher damage until fracture is introduced than that

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it has conical teeth made for grabbing, not tearing. Also, a bleeding animal can just run away from the river and deny the deino food.

void marten
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Crocs aren't designed to bleed things out

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Why they got cone teeth not serated teeth

toxic crypt
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They have high numbers on the grabby and breaky type of bite

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they'll grab you and break every bone you've ever had

void marten
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And I do just mean higher damage not literally bring it up to that high a number

toxic crypt
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I also think a low damage high bone break deino would be better as an ambusher

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I'd hope so, 20,000 biteforce might be enough to 1 hit everything even on the tail

void marten
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I just pluged in my knowledge to prove my point

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As I said idk stuff on the coding end

lament cloak
toxic crypt
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Don't trust the biteforce values

toxic crypt
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the biteforce values are really just the raw damage values, they aren't biteforces

lament cloak
toxic crypt
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raw damage would be better than bleed

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Deino dealing higher bleed does nothing to benefit it

void marten
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Just would annoy everyone

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And make no sense

toxic crypt
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Including the deino

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Bleeding animals can still run tf away from the river

void marten
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But overall are my ideas good?

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I have updated what it says btw

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To accommodate for the new knowledge

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And misunderstandings

toxic crypt
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Slap might be slightly overtuned if it's a long stun, but a shorter one sounds nice

void marten
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Yeah

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There, clarified

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Woo

alpine plover
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@void marten

You do know that a bite force that high would literally one shot everything in the game?

frosty heron
#

Bleed on Deinos is pointless since they're to slow on land to chase the victim, fractures would make more sense

alpine plover
alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Fractures would be dumb if they weren't on deino

alpine plover
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It basically takes all the skill out of playing deino

frosty heron
toxic crypt
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You said it yourself dio, it's an ambush predator

alpine plover
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Oh you fucked up a lunge? Well you have fractures so now that teno that was about to escape gets fucked over

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Its a ambush predator but it should take skill to play

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fractures just makes it a auto win

frosty heron
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Fractures doesnt necessarily mean youre fucked

toxic crypt
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If you fuck up a lunge the teno can run tf away

frosty heron
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It ain't gonna work like the dumb bonebreak from legacy

toxic crypt
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If the teno sticks around and waits for your lunge's cooldown to end, they deserve to be fractured

void marten
frosty heron
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If you lunge/bite tenos tail maybe causes a fracture on them that prevents them to use tail slam attack

void marten
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That would be cool

alpine plover
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I'm thinking of like deinos normal bite would deal them

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That's why I was against it

toxic crypt
frosty heron
alpine plover
toxic crypt
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I was too, I don't think deino can bite instantly after lunging

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Deino would deal high fracture damage for its size

alpine plover
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Like would it deal them in water?

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with its normal bite?

toxic crypt
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Biting something

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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But again, deino cannot bite instantly after a lunge

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Pretty sure?

frosty heron
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Constant bites will deplete that second health bar and causes fractures, locational ones would be cool

toxic crypt
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If deino can bite instantly after lunge then that's a problem regardless

alpine plover
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So would deino be able to break a tenos leg after it escapes from it?

toxic crypt
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deino should 100% have a cooldown that allows for prey to just run if it's a failed lunge

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Not after it escapes, the teno would presumably already have run away

frosty heron
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Uh right now if you miss a lunge you have enought time to escape, you can't bite afterwards

toxic crypt
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I thought so

void marten
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Yeah

frosty heron
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At least til you fully recover from the animation

void marten
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Got lots of end lag

dapper frost
void marten
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Yeah

toxic crypt
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Having the normal bite deal high fracture damage doesn't seem bad to me then

toxic crypt
frosty heron
toxic crypt
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I think that if you're successfully grabbed you're pretty much fucked in most scenarios

frosty heron
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But on land you can run away, in the worst case maybe getting bitten in the tip of the tail that does almost no damage

frosty heron
void marten
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If yall got any more questions for me @me

dapper frost
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I think what dio is worried about is you getting a fracture even after you've succesfully escaped so the deino could potentially still get you even after you escaped (i think)

toxic crypt
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After you escaped the initial lunge, or after the deino lets go of you for some reason in the water?

frosty heron
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That kinds sounds like Rex legacy bonebreak

dapper frost
frosty heron
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It won't happen, people really hates that I know but there's nothing to worry about

dapper frost
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I'm not saying it will, just trying to give dio's perspective I guess

toxic crypt
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Well if you escape the lunge there's a cooldown that prevents the deino from biting for long enough for you to run

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if you escape the lunge because the deino randomly let you go I guess you should still be pretty fucked? I don't know how you'd handle that situation even without fracture

alpine plover
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not sure how I feel about that

frosty heron
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People usually let you go in the water and start to chomp you

dapper frost
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I think you can escape lunges if the deino is low on stam (i think once again)

alpine plover
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The deino fucked up by letting his prey go, he shoudlnt get a second chance

toxic crypt
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When a deino lets you go at the bottom of a lake, you're fucked dio. I sincerely doubt you'll make it to shore in time whether or not the deino has fracture.

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Would be a miracle

alpine plover
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Promotes 0 skill gameplay

toxic crypt
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After a lunge including after they let go?

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I think that's silly

alpine plover
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why?

toxic crypt
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A cooldown after the actual lunge makes sense

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Unless there's an escape anim where the prey fights the deino off, it makes no sense for deino to be stunned

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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maybe if deinos were stunned whenever they ran out of stam while carrying somebody? But if they willfully let you go you should still be fucked.

alpine plover
toxic crypt
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Would probably end up needing anims for critters fighting off the deino though

alpine plover
hollow canyon
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If Deino miscalculates and lets something go, be it because it ran out of stam or because it accidentally let its prey go the animal that got attacked should be free to get out, it shouldn't be fractured so that the incompetent croc can still run it down on land. Deino doesn't need fractures, it can already grab things and pull them into the water killing them on the spot with them being completely unable to fight back if it pulls the ambush off properly.

If the situation changes and the tug of war mechanic is introduced and Deino ends up needing some help then it can always get some further buffs but as it is it doesn't need anymore help than it already gets.

crystal wharf
#

deinosuchus currently is more than fine with its instant death grab, people saying that it needs a bite buff dont know how to play well

full ocean
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

sinful cove
#

Yes sounds totally fair that something that takes the same time to grow as you should be able to just oneshot you with its normal attack TI_Wheeze

golden coral
#

Since when does stego swing not cost stam, if that's what they're referring to?.. :p

#

And yes, because stego attack isn't slow and "bad" as it is right now.. clearly needs to be worse! ^^

sinful cove
#

They probably want stego's only attack that does literally anything to drain 20% stam per use or some shit lol

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The attack that as of now is easily dodged by both land predators

full ocean
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crystal wharf
#

@river lake thats stamina related, you need stam to right yourself in flight

jagged marlin
#

My game doesn't have a server.Give me a way

golden coral
#

@dense hamlet Did you have full stamina? Did you hold him underwater until your stamina ran out?

dense hamlet
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Full stam

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Held him under water, he got out at half stam

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I bit him till he got out, grabbed him again, brought him back and bit again till he got out and hardly a scratch

golden coral
#

Yeah, that doesn't sound right. I've heard that with full stam, if you just hold them underwater all the time they're supposed to just drown, not be able to get out.

dense hamlet
#

Happened to me with a stego also, escaped at half stam

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But i bit it like 4 times after and died

golden coral
#

You sure you didn't accidentally let go?

dense hamlet
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Nope

golden coral
#

Since you have to keep holding RMB the whole time

#

Alright, just making sure :p

dense hamlet
#

Maybe a lag idk but twice in a row

golden coral
#

Not sure what happened then, it does seem odd, but from what I know, you're supposed to be able to "oneshot" anything you can grab if you have full stamina and just keep their head underwater the whole time.

dense hamlet
#

Yeah it’s what I’m saying xD a bit frustrating 😅

full ocean
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inland lagoon
full ocean
inland lagoon
full ocean
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One message removed from a suspended account.

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One message removed from a suspended account.

inland lagoon
#

Maybe mine was not full grown then, they was quiet large but i could not be sure.

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They was just running away from my tale, then i rushed in the water they started to attack, i killed one, the others have swim away.

ornate tendon
#

I dont really like the lunge guys

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Because when i lunge im only anle to do it in one direction i cant turn and lunge at the same time. Even when im 100 growth

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But everyone around me are able to do it.

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I spent 2 hours as a 100 growth deinosuchus to try an do it but i never was able to do it once.

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Anyone else with that problem???

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Because i keep getting bit in the butt and i cant do anything about it

frosty heron
river lake
dim radish
#

I don't think Ptera should grow that fast. It already grows pretty fast

inland lagoon
cerulean rapids
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@dim radish I see the point! And honestly I agree; if the food you get from fish is lowered, I think it would rebalance the growth too ;o; Its really just the fact that growing so fast makes one not need to find food until adult, so imo both ideas work 👍

slim dragon
#

Yeah it's a little too easy for ptera to get fed, they only have to catch one tiny fish and they're full
Especially since when fishing is when they are the most vulnerable

dim radish
#

I don't know but I want to feel some pressure when I play as a ptera.
Like the kind of “If I don't catch these fish fast my babies will be hungry“

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If I decide to play as a parent that is

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I'd have nothing against a bigger hunger drain in the early stages

cerulean rapids
#

Yeahhh same, also a reason why I thought growth should be 20-30 min more, because you dont have time to feel vulnerable for long-- once you get to hang of catching fish its really easy to stay steer from danger also

dim radish
#

Once you get to juvie hood you can just take off everywhere and be fine

cerulean rapids
#

Exactly, which is great for me i have fun still, but I think small tweaks like the ideas we gave would balance it better 🙂
Ptera doesnt need to hunt prey, and finding fish is fairly easy when you fly, so either you need to eat more fish or your growth is a tad bit longer to get to full adult

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30 min really wouldnt be much more as a sub adult, gives you time to get excited to get to adulthood ;u;

dim radish
#

Ohhh yess

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I mean Sub and adult don't differ much in my opinion

#

From juvie hood upwards, flying up to the nearest rock and fishing isn't too hard

cerulean rapids
#

actually true, you dont really see time pass when you're Sub and little do you know you're already full grown hahah! Anyway, I think they generally did a great job on ptera 😊

alpine plover
#

Ptera feels like a scav

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it's perfectly made

dim radish
#

Yes they did, it's so fun to just explore the map and I have learned a few landmarks on the way when it comes to orientation

dim radish
alpine plover
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when it's flying

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however I'm glad it can't gain stam while mid-flight
we don't want Pteras staying in the air forever, and no Ptera scouts

cerulean rapids
#

I do agree, it would really be hard for other carnivores to get to pteras at all

alpine plover
#

yes

dim radish
cerulean rapids
#

Yess its hard to please everyone, but your compromise is actually best of both worlds

alpine plover
cerulean rapids
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just so you can avoid crashing by mistake

alpine plover
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however at a very very low rate

cerulean rapids
#

hmmmm I was actually surprised at how well you can get juvi to fly once you have a bit of experience, I never died as a juvi ever, which surprised me with my experience playing other juvi species

#

if anything, it can make juvis depend more on a flock 🤔

dim radish
#

Honestly, it's pretty easy to not die.

  • Don't get cocky
  • If anything comes towards you, fly
  • Don't drink when you saw a deino by the lake
  • Don't fish above deinos
  • Only land on rocks or in open spaces where you can see other people
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I've seen so many pteras die for just being greedy and wanting to eat the deinos food or fishing next to them. It's not hard to just fly a mile to the next lake, it takes about a minute

cerulean rapids
#

The fast growth surely can make people more reckless since you arent as scared to regrow an adult ptera, which is great imo, gives more chance to carnivores to reach fliers! But if you're actually watching yourself you wont really encounter danger until you're fully grown

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So I think the juvi stage is really fine as it is ;o;

inland gust
#

Does the damage in evrime depend on the mass ratio as in legosi?

lament cloak
dim radish
proud swan
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I dont know about you but when you hold your breath underwater do you need 2 minutes to recover and catch your breath? it feels like a bit of a disability to surface the water as a deino and have to be topside so long before you can dive again, id like to be able to submerge, get air quick and go back to hiding. seems little defeatist in some ways

golden coral
proud swan
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yup, it seems to be some kind of generic timer to 'refil' the oxygen tank.

golden coral
#

I guess you could surface often for quicker breaths then, or wait until the last minute but trade longer surface time?

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Could maybe be a bit faster, but I kind of like that sort of tradeoff

proud swan
#

ive played both sides of the fence and i agree but disagree with myself/and you at the same time. from the deinos perspective you can be following people up river slowly for more than 5 minutes, so you have to breach the surface to get air and risk being spotted. the fact that you cant stay still on the surface means you need to constantly adjust your movements and risk making sounds or drawing attention to movement in the water and on top of that you need to expose yourself for enough time to go back under. it ruins the stalk.
From the land dwellers perspective. im eagle eyed enough to stay enough away from the water to not get snatched while im waiting on my thirst. if i see even a ripple in all that time, i move on and drink elsewhere.
it is balanced as far as the trade off goes, but its really frustrating and unrealistic. Not even a comparable comparison but take a whale, they can hold their breath for 90 minutes but only take a few seconds to catch it, were not whales 😄 but recouping air for 2 minutes is abit weird lol.

dim radish
#

Yeah Carno needs a turn radius nerf. Not as bad as in legacy tho

golden coral
# proud swan ive played both sides of the fence and i agree but disagree with myself/and you ...

Yeah I get it. I just like the tradeoff, go for water more often from your ambush point as rex, or wait until you're almost out, and stay out there, visible, longer. How I used to have to do with rex back in the day when I played it, and it was an interesting tradeoff. Do I show myself often, but shortly, or wait as long as I can for prey, but then have to drink and take all that time, giving everyone who might be near a good chance to see me and ruin my ambush chances. Deino is not exactly comparable, because as you said, you can follow and stalk prey, so maybe the time to get full air should be sped up a little, so it's a little bit easier to properly hunt.

proud swan
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valid points. i thiink it is somewhat fair. you do have to micromanage oxygen and play iit like a mini game, iive started to surface under the canopy of bushes overhanging water to take my 02. or poppiing up if i can block line of sight. its just frustrating when you stay hidden and THEN prey comes along and i just wish i could recoup that 02.
another interesting side note is that other stupid croc players prance around alot in the water and give away your position. ive taken to 'removing them' from my teritory 😄

golden coral
#

That's a very clever way of handling it, I approve! :D And yes, I know the frustration of choosing the wrong thing, missing a prey because I didn't wait one more minute and all that :p

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And all good, no sense in letting them give you away, unless you want a stego to maim them and then finish them off I guess ^^

proud swan
#

sounds like team work brother 😉

sinful cove
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I fail to see how punishing cannibalism will help with overpopulation of predators

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Then there will just be less predators killing eachother and we'll have more

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Deinosuchus is a gator too so it shouldnt be punished for cannibalism anyway

slim dragon
#

Cannibalism has actually nothing to do with predator overpopulation

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Though it can, as a side effect, cause more preds to starve or get debuffs

golden coral
#

I think judging population issues right now is just not a good idea. New stuff plus hype means everyone will be deino or ptera for now. If it's still an issue after the update is out proper, then we can see about if something needs to be done.

sinful cove
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Deinos eating juvie deinos = less deinos making it to adult yeah?

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And yeah it's an incomplete ecosystem and deino is a totally new animal so cant really judge its population as final

slim dragon
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Deino and ptera are also more fun to play than land animals

sinful cove
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But imo many predators, especially apexes shouldnt be discouraged from eating juvies of its own species unless it's its own juvie

slim dragon
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Hmm, depends
Apex will probably be way harder to grow in evrima than it is in legacy

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And as long as there is two different apex species, they can still be punished for cannibalism
For example, rexes can eat juvie gigas and gigas can eat juvie rexes

terse blade
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Perhaps instead of punishing for cannibalism, only allow it if you are below 10%-5% hunger. like you are about to starve, the only other option is your own kind. Otherwise you are fine and the survival instinct shouldn't be a thing. I've actually seen this with gaters before. The biggest one gets to eat first, the smaller ones fall in line, if they don't get enough food after a while they do start to grow more desperate. The documentary filmed one gater that hadn't been seen to eaten in weeks try and hunt on its own leaving the group only to be pushed off its hunted pray by others. In the end it turned on smaller gatters for food.

This can also aid in countering some of the body guarding I seen, like a group of carnos having one of them die to a pack of utahs then try and guard the body for themselves to eat and keep that still denied the utahs the point of their hunt... if the body is useless to them unless there on the edge of starving, unless you just want to be a dush theres no reason to stick around.

Can also be that if you're starving than the food from your own only goes up so far. Much like grazing for herbies. It strives off starvation for the time but isn't going to fill you.

autumn falcon
#

If we're trying to keep the game accurate to historical profiles, its going to be really jarring for people when the Rex gets added and the Deino gets a bite force buff higher than it to match what its irl counterparts were like

lament cloak
autumn falcon
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I'm aware the numbers wont match, but it should always be higher than whatever they make the Rex's

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Thats just how the creature is built

sinful cove
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I highly doubt they care about accuracy enough to give deino a higher bite than rex just to be realistic. I doubt they care about accuracy much at all really, it's more of a guideline if anything

golden coral
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I don't think it'll be higher, since deino is, as a playable, not in the same situation as rex will be.

lament cloak
lament cloak
golden coral
lament cloak
golden coral
#

No worries :)

autumn falcon
#

I'm still of the mind that they will retroactively buff its damage numbers when Rex releases. If not higher, than be comparable. They have different playstyles, but at its time Deinosuchus was also an apex predator of its regional territory, so I dont understand why they wouldnt give it apex like stats to reflect that.

lament cloak
autumn falcon
#

Do you believe that they will add fracture to its bite when that gets introduced?

golden coral
#

If anything, I imagine a buff to its drag capability would be more in line to make it more of an apex.

autumn falcon
lament cloak
toxic crypt
#

deino is an ambusher, rex is a brawler

lament cloak
#

if your prey manages to get out of the water thats entirely your fault and they deserve to get away

golden coral
toxic crypt
#

I think they will give deino fracture

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It seems silly to me to add a fracture mechanic only to not give it to the creatures which would actually have the potential to crush bones

autumn falcon
#

I feel like the counterplay to deino ambushes should be reflected in whatever the water/stealth changes for them they are looking to implement are. The water rippling/moving around if its approaching too fast, stuff like that

fast tusk
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@dawn falcon one stego can just run away and second both are likely to be buffed when bigger dinos are added so stego will get stronger too third deinos bite does need to increased a lot mre than to just 600 its still ridiculously weak for an 8 ton crocodile

golden coral
dawn falcon
#

1000N at this early of the game will ruin the balance.

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Not to mention it'll make the lunge useless

fast tusk
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i never said now but when it is buffed to be balanced with larger dinos

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and how exactly will the lunge be useless?

golden coral
#

If the biteforce is enough to kill, why use the lunge?

dawn falcon
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Because why lunge when you can use your 1000N damage to kill the creature instead of drowning it

autumn falcon
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Theres a number of people currently who spam the alt bite in combat, since it has next to no cooldown and does full damage

dawn falcon
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Or biteforce in general

fast tusk
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make deino bite much slower or make the normal bite take up much more stam

dawn falcon
#

Why would the deino have to bite slower

fast tusk
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so that if they dont lunge they risk the prey running if they dont grab it and drown it

golden coral
#

Spamming bites as a deino, bleh.. :p Weird that the alt bite is better, might need a look at then.

fast tusk
#

bite would be mainly for fighint on land/killing smaller animals

golden coral
#

But if you made it slow, then it wouldn't be much good for fighting, would it?

lament cloak
golden coral
#

You're not supposed to fight on land anyway

dawn falcon
#

^

autumn falcon
#

I'd be fine with the lung being where its main damage comes from and its bite does a much smaller amount

lament cloak
#

they suck absolute shit at fighting

fast tusk
#

ok i get that but im just saying its biteforce should still be higher

autumn falcon
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Make them apply more bleeding TI_DeinoMischief

golden coral
fast tusk
#

they cam change other things to make it bad at fighting head on

autumn falcon
golden coral
# autumn falcon Would the drowning not be for larger deinos that it cant kill by just alpha stri...

Yes and no, I imagine drowning would be for anything that could be seen as main prey. Like, you can oneshot small stuff, but those are hardly what you'd prey on anyway. And the things you potentially cant grab at all, are also out, unless given a good opportunity, such as seeing a stego come to the river to wallow, or maybe having seen it run to the water (could be low on it, and now low on stamina).

drowsy gorge
#

uh higher bite force does do more dmg

autumn falcon
#

But can a full grown deino drag a fully grown steggo right now? I was under the impression that they couldnt

golden coral
drowsy gorge
#

ya he aint fooling anyone if he thinks high bite force does not do more dmg glad he removed that comment so people dont think that

golden coral
#

?

drowsy gorge
#

someone said higher bite force does not mean higher dmg then deleted his comment

golden coral
#

Ah, okay :p

autumn falcon
lament cloak
golden coral
lament cloak
drowsy gorge
#

its gone for me then

golden coral
#

@autumn falcon I would however imagine that when people are done testing ptera/deino and more threat to stegos are around, you're liable to get a few chances here and there to nab a stego that isn't in the best shape.

lament cloak
#

and I thats not what I meant. I meant that just because something has higher biteforce doesn't mean that it does more damage

drowsy gorge
#

a shark has teeth that are meant to grab and rip open prey. and the croc has a higher bite force and can do more dmg

#

their teeth are meant to do the same thing and high bite for on the croc side does more dmg

lament cloak
drowsy gorge
#

so your telling me that teeth that do the exact same thing work better when the force behind them is weaker?

toxic crypt
#

A great white's teeth are very different from a crocs

drowsy gorge
#

i know that

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its the general purpose of the teeth

toxic crypt
#

The teeth do not do the same exact thing

#

They have entirely separate purposes

#

A shark's tooth is evolved to slice through flesh like butter, a croc's tooth is evolved to just grab things

lament cloak
toxic crypt
#

Conical vs serrated teeth my dude

drowsy gorge
#

"Sharks use their teeth to grab, hold and rip prey" taken right from the first thing you search for

autumn falcon
#

I'd like to see where you know that the devs are balancing around historical teeth structures as well, by the way

toxic crypt
#

conical teeth are the teeth used to grab, it's why fishers all tend to have conical teeth

#

They're grabbing fish

lament cloak
toxic crypt
#

Shark teeth are, like all other serrated teeth, optimized for tearing the fuck out of flesh

#

Piggy's point is that the shark, who has a much lower biteforce for its size, is likely to deal more devastating damage with its teeth

autumn falcon
#

What you should really be comparing in this argument is T-Rex teeth shape to Deino teeth shape, then tell me why Rex would be made to do more damage

toxic crypt
#

Aren't rex's teeth serrated?

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
#

I thought they had a serrated edge to them, alongside being able to withstand the high biteforce

lament cloak
#

a trex tooth, is meant to crush, where as croc tooth is meant to grab and hold

toxic crypt
lament cloak
# drowsy gorge

ah yes ofc, the first thing that pops up on google must be the most true thing

drowsy gorge
#

ok another one "sharp teeth that are designed to catch and hold on to slippery fish"

toxic crypt
#

This convo is over dude, conical teeth are used for grabbing and serrated teeth are used for slicing

#

you're bad at searching things on google

drowsy gorge
#

i am not saying they are not

#

i said above that I am talking about the general use for their teeth not the added crap on top of it

lament cloak
drowsy gorge
#

?

toxic crypt
#

Croc teeth =/= shark teeth

autumn falcon
#

Man, looking it up, Deinosuchus had teeth the size of bananas

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Thats nutty

toxic crypt
#

they are extremely different

drowsy gorge
#

again the general use of the teeth, I should try to preserve my brain cells by not repeating the same thing over and over

alpine plover
#

When deino had the strongest bite in the animal kingdom but people are pissing and moaning about deinos pitiful 500 N getting increased to anything that’s near 1/4 of half an irl deinos bite

toxic crypt
#

Biteforce ingame is the raw damage it deals, not the actual biteforce of the animal

drowsy gorge
#

the 500n in game is just game logic, 500 newtons of force is how much a african frog has

#

we as humans have 1300n

alpine plover
#

So an adult deinos bite is only like. 30% more powerful than an adult carnos bite?

drowsy gorge
#

its dumb ik

toxic crypt
#

In terms of raw damage, yeah

#

Personally I think it should get fracture damage on top of that once fracture is added, but I've seen people argue against that

drowsy gorge
#

ya no, it should 100% get fracture

alpine plover
#

I think it should get 1,500 N once rex and things come in the game. Irl rex had a bite force that was literally damn near half of what deino has. And both have teeth that are designed to break bones and hold prey still.

drowsy gorge
#

not even break bones but shatter them

toxic crypt
#

1500 newtons, to my knowledge, would 1 shot everything in the game even when bitten on the tail

#

The real irl biteforce does not matter

#

The biteforce in game is not representative of anything more than the raw damage dealt

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
#

Evrima's dinosaurs have relatively low biteforces because otherwise they'd be OP

alpine plover
#

Hm? Noooo thats 1500 damage right? Weight doesnt scale in evrima. It would one shot Utah’s and and anything below 1500 pounds with a body shot

#

Kg’s

#

Not pounds.

toxic crypt
#

I'm not sure the calculation works that way

#

Evrima's ui is bad, but legacy didn't use biteforce that way

alpine plover
#

Well then whatever N gets it to deal 1500 a body shot give it that. It would one shot carnos with head shots, and sure it could face tank a stego. But you think an irl stego would go anywhere near the strongest jaws on the planet?

toxic crypt
#

Way I see it, a high biteforce should translate to higher fracture damage, not higher raw damage

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Deino should not facetank a stego, the deino is the faster of the two unless on land, and it shouldn't be fighting on land

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It's an ambusher, not a brawler

alpine plover
#

Stego shouldn’t be going anywhere near a deino in the first place. Plus it’s stam is much better. Just run and then bully the now tired deino till it does back to the water

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Simple as that.

toxic crypt
#

Stego needs to drink, fatal

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Deino controls the one resource in the game you cannot avoid

lament cloak
#

i dont understand, because legacy rex had 1200N biteforce, and nobody complained by saying, OMG THATS HUMANS BITE FORCE, at least not to my knowledge, but now all of a sudden people are going shit crazy because deinos bite is sooo weak

alpine plover
#

Stegos can drink in the shallow sections where deinos aren’t in

toxic crypt
#

Where are those shallow sections and why should deino force people to only drink there ever?

#

Deino and stego are both apexes

alpine plover
#

That’s cause legacy rex has the strongest bite in the game, as it should it’s a rex. Deino had twice the power of a rex

toxic crypt
#

Having better stam doesn't help if you're slower, too

#

Deinos should not feel so comfortable on land

#

even irl big fucking crocs get a little bit stressed when they're stuck on land

golden coral
#

@vapid fable Bleed was meant to go from being damaging to being a weakening tool/help instead. It is no longer meant to be used to kill things. Do not bleed things out, use the lack of stamina they'll have to finish them off when they can't fight back. And you can still bleed em out, just prevent them from wallowing, or just, nip them again the moent they've wallowed to reopen the wounds.

drowsy gorge
alpine plover
#

So everyone’s okay with the animal that holds the title for strongest bite on the planet, be pathetic stego fuader?

golden coral
#

@alpine plover Deino, currently, should not be hunting a healthy and rested adult stego. Nor is deino meant to use raw damage to kill stuff.

lament cloak
golden coral
#

This is a game Fatal, not IRL. It'll be balanced for what the playable will be and do in the game, nothing more or less.

slim dragon
#

Biteforce shouldn't even be the only thing in order to calculate damage

lament cloak
golden coral
drowsy gorge
alpine plover
#

im not talking to you stfu, there are plenty of people saying 1000 N is a humans bite force, and people are complaing that 500N deino bite force, and im saying its dumb because nobody complained about legacy rexs 1200N bite force
@lament cloak again cause rex as it should, had the strongest bite in legacy.

golden coral
#

@alpine plover Because rex was designed as the brawler, deino is not.

#

You're missing a vital point if you do not take into account how the playable is supposed to work. Deino has advantages and mechanics a rex does not have.

slim dragon
alpine plover
#

@alpine plover Because rex was designed as the brawler, deino is not.
@golden coral right, deino was an ambush predator that would crush things with a single bite and then drag the half dead corpse into the water to drown it

golden coral
alpine plover
#

Ah okay, but how would that translate into game mechanics?
@golden coral by giving it a bite force that can 1 shot Utah’s and leave carnos and tentos barely alive?

slim dragon
#

It wouldn't change much. Just that in-game biteforce shouldn't be calculated in N.

drowsy gorge
slim dragon
#

There shouldn't even be a biteforce indicator imo. Why does predators have the right to know how much damage they deal, but things like Teno and Stego cannot ?

golden coral
slim dragon
golden coral
alpine plover
#

So if a massive 18ft crocodile bites the body of a small mammal. Like a warthog. What’s gonna kill it? The bite force or the water?

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
golden coral
#

@alpine plover Maybe the biteforce will, but you're missing the point. In the game they want the deino to kill by drowning, simple as that.

#

I can get if that's not to your taste, but that's how it currently is.

alpine plover
#

@alpine plover Maybe the biteforce will, but you're missing the point. In the game they want the deino to kill by drowning, simple as that.
@golden coral I’m well aware. Still pisses me off thou

slim dragon
lament cloak
drowsy gorge
alpine plover
#

This opinion maybe a bit better than just- “make the deino the irl power house it was”. Give the deino a kinda knock back, or just raw damage tail slap

#

To keep annoying things off it, instead of being ass ridden

slim dragon
drowsy gorge
slim dragon
#

I was reading that conversation for some time before I spoke, though I think we should stop right there before someone becomes really mean.

drowsy gorge
golden coral
#

@alpine plover Fair enough if you don't like it, as long as you understand why it's currently balanced the way it is, and how the deino is intended to function. :)

alpine plover
#

@alpine plover Fair enough if you don't like it, as long as you understand why it's currently balanced the way it is, and how the deino is intended to function. :)
@golden coral I understand. But again I’m not exactly happy about it. When they add cera they better get its damage output correct and not just have it weak run down prey for allos, carnos, and anything else bigger than it

nova olive
#

made a suggestion in the #balance-feedback chat a couple days ago and just looked back at it, and it had hella negative feedback. The gist of what i said is there should be some subtle indication that experienced players can use to find out if the water they're about to drink from has a deino in it, because as is its a game of luck rather than skill. What do yall think about that idea cause im super confused as to why that got so many negative reactions?

slim dragon
#

Actually it's not 100% a game of luck

alpine plover
#

I live with one of my favorite prehistoric creatures being garbage but I can’t live with my legacy main suffering as it did in legacy

nova olive
slim dragon
#

And if deinos are noticeable when underwater it makes it too hard for them

#

Deinos are controlled by a human, and humans make mistakes. They can get eager when they see you approaching, they can be baited... It's more a game of mind than a game of luck imo

alpine plover
#

Uhhhh... spoon. What exactly is your pfp?

nova olive
#

ive played deino and I still think it would be a good balance feature? besides it seems like 90% of a deino's diet is fish and other deino

nova olive
#

*bikini shit

golden coral
#

@alpine plover Uh, what do you expect cerato to do? It's small, it should lose to a carno, and defenitely to an allo. I would imagine a cerato will lose to carno in the open, but could probably deal with it in a forest. An allo should just be run away from though, it's way bigger and stronger.

alpine plover
#

its bacon in a bakini standing in a pan. Problem?
@nova olive ... may I eat the bacon?

nova olive
slim dragon
#

There's also often signs that a deino may be in the vicinity, although I agree they're not 100% reliable. Footprints on the shore, no dinosaur nearby, fishes but no ptera fishing...

#

And I say that though my last death was by being ambushed by a deino... it was my fault though (and a little bit of the game's wankineszs that didn't allow me to drink for 30 seconds) I didn't pay much attention

nova olive
slim dragon
#

They're also redoing the water system, a reckless deino will be much easier to spot

nova olive
drowsy gorge
#

what are they doing with the water?

alpine plover
#

@alpine plover Uh, what do you expect cerato to do? It's small, it should lose to a carno, and defenitely to an allo. I would imagine a cerato will lose to carno in the open, but could probably deal with it in a forest. An allo should just be run away from though, it's way bigger and stronger.
@golden coral True. But irl allo had a terribly weak bite force and relied on teeth and bleeding to kill things. Carnos, thou fast were built for speed. And not brawling. If they go the previous route with the cera as they did in legacy and make it a brawler. It better have an advantage over both of them in certain cases to turn the tables on a fragile sprinter that hunts smaller prey. And a long distance bleeder that uses its jaws like an axe to cause open wounds that bleed out its prey.

nova olive
#

wonder how far my frames are gonna drop tho 😂

slim dragon
alpine plover
#

And I say give it a stronger bite than both Allo and carno-

golden coral
#

@alpine plover Yeh, I can see cerato handle a carno in forest, and not doing well in the open where carno can move freely. I suspect allo will just roll over it, but it can possibly swim away from it. Even if you do give it high biteforce, allo might still have far more health and all that. I think facing off against carnos under the right circumstances is about as good as cerato will get when it comes down to fighting.

alpine plover
#

And then maybe an extra thing. Ceras were bulky and low to the ground. So my idea was a counter to charging predators. A lower the shoulder and toss em over the body kinda thing. To briefly disorient attacking carnos and allos before either attacking back. Or running

vapid fable
#

cerato is meant to be a scavenger, it'll be the only creature able to eat rotten gores, it's not supposed to be a scary hunter

drowsy gorge
#

do you guys think a turkey could get crushed to hell by a sub deino? *leading up to a question not some random shit

golden coral
alpine plover
#

That would be cool actually, and an interesting way to possibly counter carnos charge. Sort of a "brace" thing.
@golden coral hey, low man wins the leverage wae

#

Also i hope they give cera a more powerful bite as it should have. Over Allo and carno, so that way it could act as a deterrent for solos to attack cera packs

slim dragon
#

I like the "shoulder bash" or "brace" idea, but not for cerato imo.

#

Keep it for really tanky dinos like anky or magy

golden coral
#

Magy I could see. Anky, eh, it's tanky in a different way I would say

alpine plover
#

Wait- isn’t Allo also gonna have its kinda ambush speed boost thingy?

vapid fable
#

allo will have a grab

drowsy gorge
#

currently if a sub deino has 365 bite force i think up to around 380 you cant one shot a petra. if you look at the size difference even for a sub, the petra should die. at that age I cant remember what % i was when I had 365 bite force but at that age the adult petra was smaller then my head so how is possible that I can't one shot that?

vapid fable
#

grabbing smaller creatures

alpine plover
#

Anky is the kinda Tanky that would laugh at a rex as it bites into its back only for its teeth to break

slim dragon
alpine plover
#

I suggested a anky parry ability some time ago and people seemed to like it
I'm probably not the only one who wants this game to be For Honor xD
@slim dragon we all know the servers are too shitty to handle anything fast paced like a parry lol

slim dragon
#

The fact it laughs at rexes shouldn't prevent it from forcing its armor onto their teeth

alpine plover
#

Atleast legacy servers were-

slim dragon
#

Evrima servers seem to be way more solid now
And it'(s only the beginning

#

You can actually dodge and time your attacks

alpine plover
#

Yeah, and hopefully they stay that way

#

Cause troodon being the agile little bastard he is should have a .5 second dodge ability where you hit Z or something to leap out of the way of an attack to run. And in my head it would have a 45 second recharge

slim dragon
#

No recharge times please

#

They are so much immersion breaking in that kind of game

alpine plover
#

So you’d like an ability like that which fits for a nimble hunter to abuse able?

#

Like an ultra instinct troodon laughing in your face as he lands bites and you just keep trying lol

slim dragon
#

If a troodon is skilled enough to dodge every single of your blows, yes it should be rewarded for it

#

Dryos dodge doesn't have a cooldown

alpine plover
#

True

golden coral
#

Dryo dodge isn't really good though :p Unless it's been changed

slim dragon
#

Well yeah, but imagine it was good

alpine plover
#

Anyone have the size chart for the lower to mid tier carnivores?

sinful cove
#

these?

alpine plover
#

these?
@sinful cove Yes that first one! Thank you

#

Okay- so as we can see cera is the smallest of the mid tier carnivores. But, you can see the cera ducking under the bite of a carno or Allo, then sweeping its body like a weapon into the legs and flipping them over it to run away right?

slim dragon
#

I'd rather see the cera tanking the bite into its back, then looking at the carno with a murderous look and crushing its bones between its jaws

sinful cove
#

martial artist cera ducking attacks and flipping allos over? definitely wouldnt complain if that happened

alpine plover
#

martial artist cera ducking attackss and flipping allos over? definitely wouldnt complain if that happened
@sinful cove Jackie-Cera

golden coral
#

@slim dragon Nah, lure carno into forest, abuse agility. Break/fracture legs, watch carno despair since it can now not out turn/out run you, and you'll just nom away on it.

slim dragon
#

A fair opponent to ultra-instinct magy

golden coral
#

I'm not sure on your wish for this to be For Honor though, I don't think thats how dinos works.. :p

sinful cove
#

ultra instinct cera vs hakai magy

alpine plover
#

@slim dragon Nah, lure carno into forest, abuse agility. Break/fracture legs, watch carno despair since it can now not out turn/out run you, and you'll just nom away on it.
@golden coral giving cera an extra fracturing bite would be a good idea too. But I think the spectacle of watching a cera juda throw a carno would be more fun lol

slim dragon
#

I don't know how you break a dino's guard and I don't care

golden coral
#

xD

slim dragon
#

Cera could have a "special ability" to be so buff it can carry more than its own weight ? Up to dragging stego bodies around

#

Could work well with a scavenger niche

golden coral
#

xD

#

That, is for herrerra!

slim dragon
#

But herrera is so thin

alpine plover
#

Herrera gonna drag stegos up trees

golden coral
#

Yes but it arboreal, and so need to get food up there :p

#

Would make sense to let it have some extra ability to get things up there

slim dragon
#

Just wait for hypsis to jump in by themselves out of boredom

alpine plover
#

Just gonna see a stego corpse hanging from a branch with a Herrera sitting on it starring down at you

golden coral
#

Well, maybe not stegos obviously. But I could see it getting the ability to drag things a fair bit heavier, and maybe bite out bigger chunks of things it cant carry to bring up as well.

slim dragon
#

Make herra able to pick and dry meat chunks on branches 🙂

alpine plover
#

Also I suggested something for Herrera before to give it a hunting advantage. Since they are climbers I don’t really see them in packs. My idea for them is a drop from a tree, onto the backs of things like Utah’s, ceras, and tentos. To rip at the throats and back of the neck to dish out a lethal amount of bleed damage which unless patched quickly might lead to a quick demise

slim dragon
#

That's probably already planned

#

Actually I don't see how they could want to make herrera into an arboreal predator without giving it the ability to attack from trees

alpine plover
#

Actually I don't see how they could want to make herrera into an arboreal predator without giving it the ability to attack from trees
@slim dragon exactly

#

But I’m also kinda curious about what they will do for monolophosaurus

slim dragon
#

nothing
Monolophosaurus is a myth

alpine plover
#

They why do they already have animations and a model for it?

slim dragon
#

fr I don't really see any other ability than improved scent

alpine plover
#

fr I don't really see any other ability than improved scent
@slim dragon and I think that would work. Maybe even creature detection for an especially niche scavenger role?

slim dragon
#

Or they can make it into a burrower ? I know it's most of the time a trach suggestion but I don't think we have any carnivore burrower planned yet

dapper frost
#

making mono like a bloodhound would be good, it could have great smell and it could dig up burrows or something

alpine plover
#

Hm both abilities on it would actually make it not useless

#

Considering it’s gonna most likely be slower than Utah, since it’s already smaller than it. Unless it could have a way to get away from Utah’s. It would kinda be pointless

slim dragon
#

Ah now that I think about it megalania will probably be a burrower

alpine plover
#

What ever happened to the beip and such?

#

Sucho*

slim dragon
#

Pue took them with him into oblivion

alpine plover
#

Ah- gotcha

dapper frost
alpine plover
#

Ah damn. Welp I’d imagine sucho would definitely overpower carnos, tentos and in groups solo stegos

#

Not in the janky or skillful carno way. But the multiple face tank- out damage way

#

Deino would honestly even get bullied by suchos if they got added. That pitiful damage and all

limber elbow
#

deinos damage is how it is to fit the current roster

slim dragon
#

If deinos has 500N biteforce, Sucho probably wouldn't be over 150N TI_LUL

limber elbow
#

so i dont see why sucho would be implemented stronger then deino

stark knoll
#

depending on how much sucho weighs, deino could lunge and easily kill it

#

people are hung up on the biteforce value without realizing that if you lunge something its essentially a one shot

alpine plover
#

deinos damage is how it is to fit the current roster
@limber elbow just cause it is doesn’t mean I’m not gonna bitch and moan that they gave a bite double the strength of a rexes 500 N lol

slim dragon
#

The N at the end of a creature's biteforce should just be removed...

#

No, the entire biteforce indicator should be removed

stark knoll
#

human biteforce is around 1000N btw, just for reference. in-game newtons has literally nothing to do with irl strengths

slim dragon
#

Humans bite stronger than rexes TI_TheEndIsNigh

stark knoll
#

and i agree, the unit should be removed

#

it just leads to confusion like this, and it doesnt show the strengths of other attacks

limber elbow
#

problem solved no more newtons

alpine plover
#

human biteforce is around 1000N btw, just for reference. in-game newtons has literally nothing to do with irl strengths
@stark knoll I know, I know. The N has nothing to do with it. It’s the fact that it’s simply in game the, raw damage is weak as hell. A full grown deino, can’t 1 shot an animal the size of its jaws.

stark knoll
#

it can, if you lunge it

#

thats part of the reason the bie is so low, to promote using the lunge and actually setting up ambushes

alpine plover
#

it can, if you lunge it
@stark knoll it honestly shouldn’t have to lunge-

#

But balancing and whatever

stark knoll
#

if it didnt have to lunge youd just have rex that can also swim fast and hide underwater

#

imo the damage should be increased, but not nearly as much as most people want it to

#

its just that currently the only thing that can deal with a deino that knows the basic controls is a stego

limber elbow
#

does it one shot a utah in the head?

stark knoll
#

the rest of the roster can be 1shot

#

no, it cant

#

imo it should

limber elbow
#

yeah same

alpine plover
#

Atleast 750

#

I know 700 would be enough to kill a Utah but want that extra 50 tacked on

golden coral
#

Well there goes stegos chance at survival if so :p

glass berry
#

the stego would absolutely still have a chance at survival even if the deino got a buff in its damage though. The main thing about deino is it shouldn't be chasing down prey on land, all a stego has to do to ultimately survive is simply move away from the water. land based dinosaurs can also find areas too shallow for the deino, or at least, large ones, to attack them. What a lot of people take issue with for the stego vs deino is that as of right now, if a stego is determined to kill a deino there's not much the croc can do about it other than swim away. Steg can get off far too many hits on the croc, and deino doesn't have enough damage, health, or speed to be able to counter it well unless the steg makes a major mistake on par with afking mid fight

#

One stegosaurus can easily take on a deino 1v1 right now, and that's the issue with the balance, and its been happening on a few servers that stegs are simply camping where the deinos are, and tail slashing them from the banks of a river. Because the stego can hit much faster and just walk away when its wounded and it takes more hits for the deino to kill it than the steg them, that's the problem

limber elbow
#

if the camera angle is slightly off the stego can sometimes swing the opposite direction on top of that the deino hits alot fast in some cases the stego has to gtfo due to bleed the only time a deino gets reckt is when it sticks its head up a stegos ass in the middle of land and not expect to get smack

#

deino vs stego is in a good place deino should get a small power up to one shot a utah like stego can and that will help a little against stego as well but people just want to be able to face tank a stego as deino and thats not how it should go down

glass berry
#

Except it's really not in a good place. Steg can just facetank (or i guess ass tank) the deino endlessly, I've yet to see a single person saying that deino should obliterate the stego, but what's being asked for is the match up to be more fair. As I said, as of right now, the stego can easily tank a deino, and not the other way around for a creature that weighs more and should reasonably do more damage than it currently does.

#

And either way if deino was buffed to the point it could pose a serious threat to stegosaurs, all a stego has to do is walk away as its faster on land and has much more stamina on land as well.

limber elbow
#

okay look at the intended play style tho is a water creature that is supposed to be setting up ambushes. thats why it only spawns on rivers bc thats where its meant to be. if you make it so that the stegos main defense is running away nothing is stopping deinos from just roaming the entire map. no mid tier should be able to kill a deino it has a very good alt bite, the deino needs to be kept in check for now and the devs said the based on the roster at different times stats will change

#

as of right now the devs probably dont want the deino just not worrying about anything on land ive already seen pairs of two adults easily kill a stego and chase solos away

#

the deino can also do a combo where it does two bites in a spam of a second. idk how they do it but i was drinking and one jumped out and did it to my head and then chases me and got some body shots and i had to pull out of the fight as soon as it started

glass berry
#

Bob, I think you're majorly misunderstanding what is being said here. At no point was it said deino should chase things down on land and the fact that the deino doesn't have enough stam, turning radius, or speed to do so is a good thing. What you did say that is correct is that no mid tier should be killing deinos, which is the opposite of what's happening at the moment. Carno and Stego both can do so, and the stegosaurus in particular is able to spam tail swipe and easily bring a deino to 1/4 health just by standing still with its tail at the water. Deino doesn't have enough bite force to damage a stego enough to kill it easily especially on its own, due to it taking more hits from a deino to kill a stego than the vice versa.

If a deino is on land, it can't turn and run fast enough to get away or chase down anything bigger than a juvie that isn't afk. It can be easily bodied by the maneuverability of the carno and outright tanked by steg, so its entirely unbalanced. All a stego has to do as of right now for fighting deino is walk away, heal a little bit, and spam attack. If a stego doesn't like the fight, it can literally walk away from it. That is what's being said is unbalanced, unless the stego is too dumb to walk away the deino can't do anything about it.

#

It takes far too many hits to kill adult carnos and stegos both for it to be worth it for a deino, which is as of right now resulting in the primary tactic for deino players to be attacking juvies and small subs. Anything else it can't easily kill, and can just walk away from any confrontation. No one is asking for it to one shot adult dinosaurs, just to be able to match up better than it is where it outweighs everything else, but can be killed by anything bigger than a utah.

limber elbow
#

im not misunderstanding you said "either way if deino was buffed to the point it could pose a serious threat to stegosaurs, all a stego has to do is walk away as its faster on land and has much more stamina on land as well." the stegos solution on land should not resort to running

#

bc then nothing is keeping it in check

#

deino should one shot a utah which i agreed with u on but are you considering stego mid tier? bc its not stego takes a long time to grow just like a deino which is why the devs had to make the choice of the deino not being able to just wipe the stego

#

what would be the point of that long growth time then

#

what you dont see is the deino does well what it was intended for, drowning its prey and ambushing

#

thats the intended play style and thats what plays get

autumn falcon
#

The problem with that is that after a certain point, the Deino cant drown a stego, even when both are fully grown

limber elbow
#

the fact that a stego stabs a deino to death is bc its on land and not near water its not like the deino dies instantly

#

bc the devs realized a 5 hour grown stego should not be insta kill and they need to implement a new ambush system which gives a fair fight to both

#

which they said they will do numerous times

#

but cant rn so u are complaining about a place holder mechanic pretty much

glass berry
#

How would a stego walking away from deinos, who are confined to the water pretty much, not keep it in check? Deino can't chase it, and for the playstyle of an aquatic creature if a stegosaurus goes in the water and gets screwed during a fight, that should be the intent for it to suffer the consequences of such.

The deino also cant drown a stegosaurus at the moment, as every time I have seen and also tried myself, deino cannot successfully drag a stego under water. Again, no, no one is asking for deino to absolutely wipe out stegosaurus in a fight, just for it be more even because the fact you cannot drown it fully grown, you cannot face tank it, and you certainly cannot chase it down or out maneuver it.

lament cloak
#

you CAN practically oneshot carno, just lunge it and drown it, the reason deino doesn't do much damage is to encourage people to use the lunge

limber elbow
#

your statement was that if a deino ever got buffed to the point of a threat to stego it should run away

#

why would the deino be confined to water at that point

#

what in the game would stop it

glass berry
#

'why would the deino be confined to water at that point
what in the game would stop it'

It's stam, that it dehydrates on land, that it cannot turn as easily as any other dinosaur, and its speed. None of that would be changed by giving deino enough damage to be in a fair fight against the stegosaurus. At no point have I or what Ive read in the channel since the stress test started, anyone else, said for that to be changed.

#

At no point was it said to make it so deino can out maneuver or chase down the stegosaurus, and the tactic for not wanting to deal with a deino should be to just go where it cant follow.

limber elbow
#

ive played both adult deino and stego and im pretty sure stego water drops alot faster then deino

#

like im 100% sure

#

it has a alt bite that makes it turn anywhere it wants

#

ur only true statement is the stam

#

which if it got a damage buff it could easily ambush on land and it would be a four legged rex

lament cloak
#

the only time that I feel deino should be able to kill stego is if they add some sort of tug of war mechanic

limber elbow
#

you want it to be viable as a land creature

glass berry
#

No, a damage buff to it wont make it be a land predator and be able to ambush on land. No one is asking for that, I have never said that, you're the only one who has said 'any kind of buff to deino will make it a rex'. It is not a land creature and never should be treated as such, and the game itself doesn't treat it as one. In no way should it chase down, ambush, or kill on the land. What is being asked for is simply to make it easier to counter the stegosaurus, a creature that should have reason to fear an 8 ton crocodile in the water, not just park its tail in the river and spam attack, killing any deino faster than they can kill it.

#

The current state of both creatures right now, stegosaurus wins against the deino due to higher attack speed, not being able to be drowned or lunged, its running speed and stamina.

limber elbow
#

dive under the water

glass berry
#

As of current, stego can still hit deinos under the water.

limber elbow
#

okay so then how would you buff the deino to make it a better match

#

bc you keep saying the stegos option to survive is move somewhere else

glass berry
#

I'd already said so multiple times both to you and in my own post in the feedback channel that you can go back and read at any time or listen to a single thing that is being said. A deino should be able to reasonably damage stegosaurus, and right now it can't without being out matched in speed and maneuverability. Stego can hit them when they are under water and stego is the one who can chase deino down.

Like I said in the original post, to fight stego, a deino should have a small increase to its bite force so that it is able to at least be even with the amount it takes for deino to kill stegosaurus vs stegosaurus kill deino, or be given enough health that with its lower attack, it can last long enough in a fight to be able to get in enough attacks to make up for it. None of which involve any changes to make deino a land predator, like you keep saying it would.

glass berry
lament cloak
#

at least I think it would, im not a coder

glass berry
#

Yeah, which is why I think lunge should be able to be used on them.

#

the lunge mechanic is already there, so imo I don't think there needs to be an additional tug of war, just make the one we already have work, even if its reduced damage or speed against such a large animal.

limber elbow
#

look at what the deino can do mechanically rn as in ambushing retreating to the water one shot stuff by drowning it compared to the stego

#

in a fight between a few carnos or utahs the match is never decided

#

and u want it to be even

#

the stego has its shit mobility to deal with so it has the extra power the deino does not have the problem

glass berry
#

Again, the opposite of what is actually happening in the game. Stegosaurus out maneuvers deino full stop.

limber elbow
#

okay have you ever fought a carno pack as a stego or utah pack

#

turning in place for a deino is a piece of cake compared to stego

#

the stego has better speed and stam

#

thats it

#

they would play completely differently

glass berry
#

At this point to be so hard line believing that its the stego who suffers against deino and it should be able to counter anything done to it by an 8 ton crocodile, even a properly set up ambush, you have to be a troll.

And yes, many times. And due to the absolutely massive hit box that stego has with its tail and more health than carno or utah, it can reasonably fight against them quite fairly. At no point was it said stego needs anything reduced or changed, because its the issue of the deino, not the stegosaurus in balance.

#

Or in your own style of reply: you just want stego to be invulnerable

limber elbow
#

ill put it in differently a fight between stego and carnos/utahs could go either way, if u make deino even with stego then a fight between deino and carnos/utahs would be heavily in deinos favor

#

see how due to the specific play styles and areas they should be in wouldnt make sense

#

the stego is not invulnerable you must not fight as it much

glass berry
#

Yes, its an 8 ton crocodile, it should be in deino's favor against a carnotaurus or utah. In no world does it make sense otherwise.

limber elbow
#

okay so you are using normal logic

#

use game logic

#

why should a stego be at such a disadvantage with land creatures when it takes the same time to grow

#

wheres the balance in that

glass berry
#

Where in the world was it said that stego should be at a complete disadvantage though?

#

The only one saying such is you.

limber elbow
#

go fight as a stego against a pack of carnos dude seriously

#

u act like the speed and stam advantage the stego has on deino translates to other fights

#

it means nothing at all compared to carno and utah

glass berry
#

Anything anyone has said even remotely resembling the stegosaurus may have too much of an advantage against the deino you come back around with essentially saying the stegosaurus is completely helpless. What is being talked about is specifically the deino versus stego, not at all other dinosaurs.

limber elbow
#

yeah cause you fail to see how unbalanced deino would be against other things

scarlet wharf
glass berry
#

You yourself, bob, said that deino should be able to take on carno and utah?

limber elbow
#

i said it should one shot a utah if it lands a head shot

#

remember u said it should be even as a stego all together

glass berry
#

I said more even. Not the complete one sided fight it is now

limber elbow
#

even only means one thing to me

#

which is even

glass berry
#

Wonderful troll response sir

limber elbow
#

you are welcome to reword what you meant

glass berry
#

I'm not actually, you can simply reread it or stop being willfully ignorant.

scarlet wharf
#

Realistically, the Rex has a weaker bite force so taking on a carno should be able for him to do

limber elbow
#

am i missing the part where you said more even

#

and didnt flat out say even

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or am i still trolling?

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heres the entire post so you know its not some troll i typed up TI_Wheeze

scarlet wharf
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I think deino being able to take on a stego is not really realistic neither a good idea

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from the Bite force sure but

limber elbow
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now get this a deino that has an alt bite and has a better chance of hitting a target alot easier then a stego, bc the stego turns like a semi truck, a deino that already one shots things by drowing stuff which is the intended play style, devs already said they would add onto lunging for the stego in the future. yet you think it needs a buff and im the one trolling

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and the story on how the stego can hit you in the water still, go deeper or on the other side of the river good grief @glass berry

glass berry
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Deeper in the water does nothing, if you are at all within hte stego's tail swipe range, it will hit you. Stego can hit from halfway across the river in most cases. Devs saying that the stego will be able to be lunged is news to me, because at least in the discord as of right now, there appears to be no indication of anyone saying that.

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But again anything at all being said otherwise to you means the deino is a rex, so sure.

limber elbow
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That stego hit box statement kinda bs in my opinion saying how I’ve played both animals and killed one or the other more then once and never had something like that happen the only time I hit something is when I can literally see the tail hit the other creature

north lance
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can confirm I have seen multiple deinos hit while chilling on the bottom of the river by a stego tail swiping above them.

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watched it happen just an hour ago while i was playing a Ptera and watching a stego murder some juvie deinos that were underwater

glass berry
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If you don't think that stego can't hit far outside the actual physical range of it's model, you're not even playing the same game honestly.

limber elbow
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Normally when hit box problems happens the bug discussion goes off with that type of stuff and also the stego needs some ways to hit things like hypsis or juvis so maybe it’s intentional and show some vid evidence next time of some absurd hit since it obviously seems to be a big prob you experience

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Other then that your points don’t really make sense to me and you seem to think balancing is very narrow and don’t seem to look at everything else that surrounds it

glass berry
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I mean it's been a known thing for weeks, pretty much since the release of stego but okay

limber elbow
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Then you shouldn’t have a prob getting a vid of it if u wanna continue the discussion further

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And even then it’s not a balance issue

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Take it up with bug discussion

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Bc it would be a bug

glass berry
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It was never a point in my argument, so no, especially when its already been a known and reported issue for weeks already.

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That one issue has little to no bearing on my original point, and is you moving the goal posts again.

#

But again, if the point in any way resembles 'deino shouldn't be getting creamed by stegosaurus' your response is 'you just want it to be a rex and chase things on land' when that was never said so I'm not particularly inclined to listen to anything you say

limber elbow
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You act like me saying you the four legged rex thing means that I specifically said you stated that it’s a form of expression to show how it would be unbalanced which you probably would know that if you thought about it a little

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So I not sure why you bring it up like it’s a valid point of false information or twisted info but then again you have dementia hand forget what you state previously sometimes so I’m not particularly inclined to listen to anything you say

glass berry
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Your words, not mine. Nice job on accusing me of having dementia, because that's entirely not ableist or a disgusting comment to make tho bro.

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limber elbow
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Where did I say that you said that

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In my statement above I literally said you make it seem like I said you specifically stated that then I literally explained that was the example I used to show it would be unbalanced

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Like what you even doing rn

glass berry
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Right there buddy.

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limber elbow
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Yeah I meant the four legged rex thing buddy and I’ll take owner ship of that sorry if I offended anyone with it I’m sure they’ll forget about it eventually

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That came out wrong...

glass berry
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Nah dude, there's a very real intent with specifically saying 'you have a debilitating mental illness' to attempt to win over in a discussion about pixel dinosaurs. You could use quite a many other words instead, or even just any other straight up insult. You know what you said and you did when you typed it.

limber elbow
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Yeah that’s why I said I’ll take ownership

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Or did you forget that already

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Which isn’t a shot at dementia

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You just seem forgetful

glass berry
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Mhm. says the dude who completely forgot about him saying the four legged rex bit.

limber elbow
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Again when did I say I forgot that

glass berry
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Is your only response to anything you don't like to say 'where did i say that'?

limber elbow
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Dealing with you I kinda have to

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Bc I never said I didn’t say that

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So it’s not like I can go back and find that

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Bc it doesn’t exist

glass berry
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Anyways back to actual feedback discussion: Yeah, the deino does have an issue with things just going under it like Christian_ said, over all I think that the collision boxes are too small in many spots for a lot of dinosaurs.

limber elbow
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I disagree

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Bc apparently stego can hit across rivers so I think some collision points are to big

dusty fable
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@70kg if bleeding affects health then you just get legact all over again. Where people run in, bite, then run away. The way bleed works is if that blood drop runs out, you die. It keeps pressure up but doesnt basically stop your ability to fight

pearl chasm
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Idk you gotta remember client and local side lag can also make it seem like it shouldnt hit you but has.

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Latency is also a huge pain for some people

golden coral
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@glass berry With current damage, deino 4shots a stego on head, stego 5shots a deino (or so I've heard at least). No, I don't think deino needs more damage to deal with stegos, they're not your main prey, there's no reason to hunt them. Deino is more or less a midtier hunter, and they're not mid tier (how are you comparing them to carno?). You can hunt a stego as two deinos, and even as one, you can punish the stego enough to make it want to go away, giving you time to retreat as well. As for hitbox issues, that's a different question entirely.

autumn falcon
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I think the argument is that given what the Deino was, it doesnt make sense for him to just be relegated as some mid tier hunter with mid tier stats. It has the strongest bite force of any animal to ever exist and at the time of its existence it was an apex predator. Even when compared to other Apex's its size alone stacks up with many of them, being nearly as big or in some cases just as big as adult Rex's. I'm not calling for immediate stat changes either, those very much should come out gradually as other also higher tier dinos do in the future. I just dont agree with the narrative that some people are proposing that its fine as is or just needs a couple of minor damage buffs.

golden coral
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@autumn falcon I get that much. I think the problem is that on the one hand we have that "realism" aspect. You're right, it doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that rex isn't steamrolling everything else in the roster. It would in reality, it was apparently a stupid OP animal. And stego would die to anything bigger than allo. And so on, a utah would just not do what utah do at all in the game, they did not function like that in reality.

On the other hand, this is a game, and the playables will be designed for what fits them as a gameplay style, plus whatever balance changes is needed to keep them viable and able to survive against everything else in the roster, one way or another. And here I guess is the problem. Under normal circumstances, deinoo would be much better, but in game it's designed in a very specific manner, it's not so much a narrative as a focus on the play over the look. And same goes for stego, it would not last a day in the full roster here, but that would not make for a good or fun playable, so it needs to be buffed to either outrun or outfight a rex, to be able to survive, even if that does not make much sense from a realism standpoint.

autumn falcon
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Which is why I am all for the numbers being tweaked throughout the ongoing future as more dinos come into play, so there isnt this sense of power creep that could very easily happen.

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Theres also the sense that a lot of the stronger dinos are balanced behind having a longer growing timer. I'd also be all for that increasing for the Deino if it meant that it would be getting the same appropriate sort of increases in power as other contemporary counterparts

golden coral
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I don't know, there's the risk of too high timer there, for both deino and stego, especially when growth is what it is right now.

autumn falcon
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People have been complaining a long time about their favorite dinos having long timers when it comes to stuff like playing Apex's

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Like, what even is the final full timer to get a Rex into adulthood?

golden coral
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380 min, 390 for giga

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And yes, people complain, but honestly, I think it's less the time and more the lack of things to do while growing + being seen = dead in most cases

autumn falcon
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So, what 5 hours in would put it at a higher end sub adult, right?

golden coral
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Even so, I'd rather focus is on difficulty than just time in growth

frosty heron
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It should be around 6-7 hours, If if I put this as excuse (like everyone else does with Stego now) they will pounce on me

golden coral
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?

frosty heron
# golden coral ?

Everyone says that Stego should be destroying any current predator because it takes 5 hours to grow

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With that logic, Rex should destroy Stego isn't it?

autumn falcon
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I dont understand the herbi supremacists in this community

frosty heron
autumn falcon
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Complain too much about them and they all gang up on you and downvote you to oblivion though

golden coral
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Hardly supremacist because I think carnivores should have to properly hunt and choose wek prey.

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I believe every other hunt should be a failure

autumn falcon
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But a failure from what reason?

golden coral
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Lack of skill

autumn falcon
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As it stands, lack of the skill isnt the reason most deinos cant kill a stego

golden coral
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Miss a lunge, don't inflict enough damage so you run out of steam (like cheetah not catching up to it's prey), stuff like that

frosty heron
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People seems to forgot this is a survival game, everything should be possible, if you died to a pack of raptors you shouldn't be complaining about your Dino being weak, if I lose my Deinosuchus to Carnos I wouldn't complain, just get better at the game, that's my vision of The Isle

golden coral
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Basically, it should be so hard that you should always favour a weak target over a healthy one

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No, not everything should be possible. It's not a fighting game, it's a survival game. Sometimes running is a valid option.

frosty heron
golden coral
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And I don't think I've seen anyone say stego should obliterate any carni cause of it's growth time.

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Fair enough, but I want a proper survival game.

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That means you value your life and act accordingly. Maybe it's boring to you, but to me it's how it should be done.

autumn falcon
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Theres a lot of aspects currently missing that would make that more feasible

frosty heron
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Like imagine being a Rex pair and not able to kill a Single Stego TI_Wheeze

golden coral
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Because that's clearly what people who like stego wants? ^^

autumn falcon
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As it stands, this is a very bare bones survival game at best, and a walking simulator with hard ends at worse

golden coral
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Agreed Stalker, but I can still talk about what I would like to see, right :p

autumn falcon
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Have they said they want to add Ankalosaurus?

golden coral
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@frosty heron You're here to survive, hunt is done out of need, not out of fun. If you want to just fight, deathmatch is there for you. :)

frosty heron
golden coral
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Yes, anky will be a thing, or whatever the remodeled anky is supposed to be :p

autumn falcon
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Anky is actually something I could see actually squaring up with a Rex and getting it to back off

frosty heron
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But as Rex main I want people to also to be scared when they see a Rex, not bully it

golden coral
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I don't think I've seen anyone claim a stego should be able to fight off two rexes, unless the rexes are very dumb/or the stego somehow have a perfect defensible position, which I doubt. Same would go for trike, or rex vs something else for that matter.

autumn falcon
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Two rexes shouldnt be able to fail to kill any one thing

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Honestly

golden coral
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Both anky and stego should be able to do that, simple as that. And you should be afraid of any big thing, no matter which "side" you're on.

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They should

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Imagine your trike is backed up against an edge, the only way to approach it is by the front, the worst place to approach a trike

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Sure, they could facetank it, but one of them would die for it

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So it's perhaps less about not being able to kill it, and more that it would be a painful idea to

autumn falcon
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If its backed into a literal corner, you could just wait him out

golden coral
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Obviously you'd have the sheer power to just overcome the trike, but at what cost :p