#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 228 of 1

candid basalt
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i would like a little buff to that jump though lol. seems useless as is

alpine sleet
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true

desert wave
candid basalt
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it at least looks stupid then

dim radish
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It does but eh

alpine sleet
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tenos kick is a little broken

thin herald
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Teno is the best balanced creature in Evrima. Carno can 50/50 Teno as of now and that can change with Update 3. I do think that Carno needs heavy adjustments to it's movement with the A,S,W,D keys and acceleration/deceleration. It's hitboxes can be very off when you get hit on the tip of tail by a Teno and Stego. Stego needs serious buffs in attacks and it needs a swing attack as it's primary right click attack and Left Alt attack being the tail jab. Update 2's animal hitboxes are just fucked up and they need to be fixed.

unkempt vault
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Agreed^^^

sinful cove
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That teno nerf suggestion is indeed pretty cringe

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Teno should have an advantage over carno because carno already holds the speed advantage, it certainly doesn't need a nerf

unkempt vault
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The tail slam/kick also takes quite a bit of stamina so teno players have to actively manage fight or flight situations. 1 v 2 situations usually ends favorably for carnos especially if the teno is caught in a field. At that point a well placed tail slam/stun is it’s only hope of surviving. My personal opinion is that teno is well balanced, it requires skill to survive but it’s no longer impossible to win in 1v1 situations

scenic junco
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I just wanna throw this out there cus I see a lot of people talking about 1 shot head-shots and some people mentioning that attacks should carry through with their animation rather than stopping after they hit.

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This may seem like a good idea, but in play this would be flawed, tails aren't incorporeal. They should impact and stop. Nothing should clip through anything.
Due to the way the game currently works, the animations clip through things. If you then combine this with people who think 1 shot head-shots is a good idea you get a dino that can one shot everything through exploiting the no-clipping aspect of the dino's attack animation. This is not a good idea in the slightest.
Being 1 shot in any game as I'm sure many of you can agree is not a fun experience. It eventually tires out and gets boring. No one wants to get killed due to a slip up or a mistake and lose hours of progress because "haha stego tail noclip body and boop head".
Carnivorous track smells for miles as such their noses could be assumed to be sensitive. like a shark or a bear. Landing a head-shots could give the assailants screen a temporary blur which goes away quicker if the assailant backs away from the person who struck them.
This would inspire a more tactical approach to combat and would mean that both sides would require skills to succeed. Promoting the carnivores to play less offensively would also give both sides the added chance of survival. Herbivores can sit and recover a little, regaining stamina while the carnivore shakes off their haze, Maybe getting enough time to lick their wounds and slow any bleeding. Carnivores can also regain a little stamina and have the chance to recalculate their attack, the small break in combat might even give enough clarity to have the carnivore realise it's outclassed and should go find something else to eat. After-all animals natural give up on food if it's too much hassle because their instinct is to survive and dying over a snack isn't worth it.

I hope from this you all realise that creating an OP attack isn't balancing, it's power-creep. Which will severely unbalance the game and surely kill off the player-base. Fight fire with fire, not a nuclear bomb.

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Sorry for the rant

sinful cove
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Sure it's annoying if an attack clips through your body and hits your head too when it shouldn't, but people who actually try to facetank a thagomizer deserve way more than the slap on the wrist you're suggesting. The animals using these attacks have no choice to run away in the fight so they should be able to severely punish the predators who choose to attack them and make a mistake. Just make it so once an attack comes in contact with a dino it only deals damage to the point of impact in some way, fix that problem instead of giving bad carni players a freebie out of being smashed in the face by spikes and clubs by things they had full choice in starting a fight with.

left scroll
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Also the example given in the suggestion was how if an attack hits the tail first, locational damage for that is taken into consideration and the attack does no more damage for the rest of the attack, even if the tail seems to swing through the body/head. In real life, if a stego swung its tail at a utah in a similar way, it would absolutely keep going past the tail and smack into the body, tail aren't exactly made of steel. It's not entirely realistic, but the game needs to account for the fact that it just does not have real-life physics, in which that sort of attack would do major damage. So there are a lot of attacks that I think could really do with having lasting damage, in particular the longer ones like stego's tail slam

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And as mira said... if you die in one hit to an attack while at full health, you're probably fighting above your paygrade. It's an issue I guess in evrima right now because stego are one of the few herbis available to hunt, but eventually there's gonna be a lot more for carnos and utahs to pick from. If they really want to tangle with a stego, that's on them.

sinful cove
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tenonto should be buffed when cerato comes for sure, but right now since there's not much more to hunt it's sorta fine. carnotaurus should be optimized to stick to small game in the future and not be as much of a problem for teno but the buff can wait a bit

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my take on it at least. also upvoting your own suggestion twice TI_Yikes

golden coral
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If the tenno tailslam stun lasts longer, the damage needs to be nerfed, otherwise it'd kill a carno pretty easy I think.

sinful cove
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a mobility buff especially for its juvenile stage would be nice though to have sooner

desert wave
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are people really this bad with teno ?

sinful cove
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in the future when there are smaller animals and more predators i think it's fine that tenonto should woop carno's ass easier, but right now not really

frosty heron
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I've seen really good Tenonto players destroying Carnos so

unkempt vault
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I agree, there is also no cool down to the tail slam. Instead of running away beat the ever-living daylights out of the carno with that tail if it’s truly a life or death situation, that’s what it’s there for at the cost of losing extra stamina

wise plover
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@thin herald I'll be honest, you got this

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nice feedback btw

naive lintel
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I wish i could fight as tenonto, but all the carnos are teleporting for me so i cant hit them TI_Frown

desert wave
naive lintel
desert wave
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I can‘t guarantee that the desync and teleporting will be completely fixed in update 3 but the devs are working on fixing it

naive lintel
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right now it's like i grow a tenonto and the one carno come and i cant hit it at all, dead in 30s

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desync succ TI_Frown

desert wave
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But if carnos don‘t teleport and you use your tail slams wisely it‘s not that difficult to deal with carnos

desert wave
naive lintel
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yeah i know, Tenonto can be amazing in a 1 vs 1, i also know the z walk for spamming the claw attack when stamina is out

golden coral
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Tenno is probably one of the more fun critters to use in fights, what with all the attacks, decent mobility and all that. A good carno will probably still win, but if you know what you're doing, you can punish it pretty well for turning you into food.

naive lintel
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i know what im doin, but against teleportin carno yeah... cant do anything, so i hope it will be fixed TI_TenontoLove

safe anchor
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teleportation shouldn't be a thing so its not a balance topic really its more of a bug problem when its fixed thats when you can see the difference in balance of creatures

hollow canyon
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I wouldn't call myself a good Tenonto player as I don't play it much but I consistently dumpstered every Carno I fought in a 1v1. The issues were appearing only when there were multiple Carnos in a given area. Tenonto doesn't need any changes, it's just fine the way it is right now. I'd argue that Carno doesn't really need any changes either aside from maybe some stamina-pool nerfs. All the other dinosaurs need some serious fixes though because each one of them seems to have some glaring issues that require fixing. They should be brought to the level outlined by Tenonto and Carno I think.

cloud urchin
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@scenic junco where is your comment addressing me? I wanted to reply.

cedar shore
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@wise plover As a mostly teno main, I can say with 100% certainty that teno isnt underpowered or needs any buffs really. Its attacks are really good and if you know how to properly fight you can single handedly take on 2 carnos or around 4 raptors. Trust me, ive done it. As for the jump, it can be really useful for traversing spesific areas, like jumping over the river bridge rock near bamby swamp.
TLDR: Teno is really balanced

tender prairie
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deino overpowering stego'd be fine as long as it can't catch up to it really. the only issue i foresee is, if nests still need to be near water TI_Troll

quick anchor
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Teno jump is honestly fine for me. You can climb Utah Rock, traverse parts of the map designed for jumpers (bridges, slopes), and generally use it in all the ways Utah can, albeit to a lesser extent which is to be expected considering the differences in weight and build. Teno jump is TI_Perfect

wheat field
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I also think Teno doesn’t need a stam pool buff as it can then stun lock any creature in the foreseeable future like it does with carno currently as well as utah

desert wave
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People are throwing the word stun lock around a lot. Teno CAN‘T stun lock

candid basalt
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^^^ i noticed that too. over-exaggerating it a bit

wheat field
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Teno can in-fact stun lock as it repeatedly uses a tail slam to stun the assailant permanently or long enough so that escape is next to impossible, with large stam pools this “issue” or whatever you wish to call it will continue

dim radish
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Maybe it's also just a buggy animation, because sometimes my Utah just stands there unable to move after getting hit

wheat field
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That my good friend is the gracious act the teno gives, stun locking

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It disables you movement for like 1 sec after the attack allowing the teno to do it again and again and again

dim radish
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I can get why people complain about it

wheat field
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The teno is still fairly balanced but if it lands that tail slam teno wins no matter what

dim radish
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Giving the tail slam a slightly longer cool down, idk maybe a second more could perhaps solve that problem. But I am crap with balancing

wheat field
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Any form of cooldown on the tail slam is needed

dim radish
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Would be neat

hollow canyon
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Stunlocking hasn't been a thing since early update 2. It was patched out after a couple of days. I haven't been stunlocked by a Tenonto in any confrontation against them in ages.

candid basalt
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yeah unless you just stand there and take it then you cant really be stunlocked by a teno. most slams ive been hit with back to back is twice

cedar shore
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the stun on the tail slam seems to have a cooldown. You cant stack the tail slam stun over and over again, that was patched a long time ago. Instead, you can now hit them with one tail slam stun and land 1-2 extra tail slams on a carno before it can run away.

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If the tail slam got a cooldown carnos can simply run at it and bite it to death. The tail slam has a lot og Dps but drains all stamina after 10 uses.

sinful cove
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Hypsi taking two hits to die from a carno is absurd, it could definitely use a buff to its jump and spit abilities though

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Hopefully when herrera comes out hypsi can get some climbing capabilities too

slim dragon
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I think having both spit dealing damage, instant charged jump, more tankiness and climbing is a little too much

sinful cove
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Hypsi should still be a oneshot, it is tiny and weak

slim dragon
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As much as I love Hypsi, it doesn't need all of that

sinful cove
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Its abilities meed tuning but its stats are fine aside from this

slim dragon
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And I'm also against climbing hypsi. Sure it looks like a bird of paradise, but it really has nothing of a climber

sinful cove
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Eh i hope eventually we get an arboreal herbi even if it isnt hypsi

slim dragon
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That yes

sinful cove
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Both hypsi and dryo are pretty bleh right now but they shouldnt be tanking hits from carno like that

slim dragon
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We positively need one

dim radish
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I'm all in except for the two hit and climbing

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Hypsi can't climb

sinful cove
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If i can play annoying squirrel on some herbi in the future im satisfied

slim dragon
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arboreal proto ? TI_Pog

final relic
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@ionic glacier Hypsi's spit is not a venomous attack, it's simply stomach acid spat at a hostile entity to blind it.

slim dragon
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Actually that's hypocritical for me to suggest that while I'm against arboreal velo because it lived in the desert, and so did proto

sinful cove
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Just fix hypsi's asthma whenever he jumps and buff his bulimia ability. Idk how dumb proto would look as an arboreal, if they can make it look good sure lol

dim radish
slim dragon
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Oro doesn't look like a climber at all either
I think it's becoming a burrower

true patio
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I agree with @ionic glacier , Hypsi is so bad rn it's awful for the players who adore that animal and its playstyle.

sinful cove
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Ugh not another burrower

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Are they really doing that to oro

dim radish
slim dragon
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I think it did burrow irl ?

sinful cove
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He definitely doesnt look arboreal though

ionic glacier
slim dragon
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Currently for burrowers we have proto, minmi, ava and... who else ?

ionic glacier
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Thank you @true patio

sinful cove
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Are they removing taco's burrowing or just removing taco outright

slim dragon
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Oh yeah taco too, I forgot it

frosty heron
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I don't understand why people wants Hypsi to be able to fight back or not to be a snack, right now doesn't has grow and tbh even with grow its only a parrot-like dinosaur with nothing else than it's agility & size, when smaller carnivores are added to the game they will have their own place on the food chain, for now I see Hypsis better to be AI like Tacos

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Or play it for trolling, as most people do

slim dragon
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Every dino in evrima is supposed to be viable and playable

sinful cove
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Hypsi shouldnt be fighting back it should just be better at escaping

slim dragon
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Hypsi wasn't intended to be that bad

sinful cove
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Im sure the skin system will help it some though

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Hypsis jump is kinda trash and its spit is better for trolling unsuspecting dinos than actually defending itself

true patio
frosty heron
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What I hope tho is the Carno reduced size makes it to not catch them in the trees

true patio
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I agree with him, if its meant to be in the gutter, then make it nonplayable and only AI.

frosty heron
true patio
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Hypsi's agility is awful.

sinful cove
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Oh yeah dryo also got shafted with an ability that could be good but was done in one of the worst ways possible

slim dragon
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Dryo most likely won't be a burrower in evrima

frosty heron
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Yeah Burrowing will be a thing, to help the Dryo escape... Nor fight back

slim dragon
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It should just be nocturnal

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With its already good camouflage it'd be perfectly fine

frosty heron
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So it gonna die to most stuff except juveniles, and it's a playable so

true patio
frosty heron
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You cant ask for more for the Hypsi being smaller

slim dragon
frosty heron
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As I said, Hypsi fits better as AI

slim dragon
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There's no such thing as AI-only species in evrima, as I said

frosty heron
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I know, I don't mean to be exclusively as AI but like the current Dryo both playable and AI

true patio
stark knoll
frosty heron
true patio
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Anky is famous, hypsi is not.

sinful cove
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Adding hypsi ai has nothing to do with balancing the animal though

true patio
frosty heron
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We have a weird concept of balance I believe

true patio
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Let's balance it! I agreed with the suggestion the person wrote down!

sinful cove
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The suggestion would be good if they didnt also want hypsi tanking hits from carnos

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Cus thats just dumb

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It isnt designed to take hits it is designed to be good at escaping, a task it is pretty mediocre at atm

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Unless the predator is low on motivation or has bad focus

true patio
slim dragon
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If Hypsi's spit was usable, that'd already do a lot for hypsi's viability

lament cloak
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while I agree hypsi is bad, it still should be one shot, its supposed to escape, not tank hits. what it needs is a better way to escape. A good start would be to lower carnos acceleration (this needs to be done regardless of hypsi)

desert wave
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I agree with buffing hypsi but that suggestion is just over the top. A carno 2 shoting a hypsi and the spit doing damage ? TI_Wheeze

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But the stam buff for the jump is needed

ionic glacier
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Think about it. If Hypsi is one hit or has no damage it is unable to fight. An animal like this would never be part of the meta. Imagine Hypsi being a carnivore, then of course it would deal damage. I think it is wasted potential giving Hypsi only the opportunity to run away. A balanced Hypsi should be somehow equal to the meta carnivores with his own trades. Look at the Dryo that is basically a much worse version of the Utah. Almost no one plays it because it is a bad choice. Tho Carno has a small mouth i agree it is kinda unrealistic for the Hypsi to survive 2 hits. But balance wise it makes sense as Hypsi is so easy to hit for a Carno. Maybe a talent for Hypsi to survive a deadly hit by loosing stamina would make sense.

outer topaz
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@ionic glacier

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Hypsi is supposed to be pretty bad

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Its meant to be smaller and faster

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When people are more things that aren't carno and utah it will be better

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currently everyone is only two predators and both are faster so it seems more unbalanced then it is

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I agree with maybe buffing the venom attack to have longer lasting effects so it is mor euseful

ionic glacier
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Please dont tag me. If it is supposed to be "pretty bad" it is obviously not balanced.

obtuse shuttle
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Imagine thinking a hypsi (20 kg) shouldnt be oneshotted by a carno (2 tons)

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Thats a 100x size difference

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The same size difference a human and a Rex have

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And i doubt anyone Will say Rex shouldnt oneshot mercs

lament cloak
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hypsi is supposed to live in the jungle, stop going into the plains and maybe you will survive a bit longer

wheat field
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Hypsi is the equivalent of a flightless microraptor

ionic glacier
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Yeah i agree it is kinda unrealistic, but then it needs something else going for them like climbing trees.

maiden elm
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It was really good until they nerfed it hard in the last update a long while back.

outer topaz
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It has venom going for it

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acid spit*

jolly osprey
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About that earlier conversation, Anky is far from a bad animal. Why people actually still believe what is essentially a meme, not a fact, is beyond me.

quick anchor
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Because Anky bad animal

dusty fable
outer topaz
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Well

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If you had bothered to read down a couple lines I corrected myself

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And agreed, the spit is not as good as it should be

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But if anything they should just make it so there is some sort of visual effect even after you get rid of it

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Like the edges of you screen are black

sinful cove
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Can’t utah easily just run away from the dryos

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Dryo aint that fast lol

ember ivy
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Either way, Dryo is ridiculously overpowered for its size

sinful cove
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If the dryos are blocking you from moving forward it sounds like you can just hit them

ember ivy
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Yea, Utah can just bite and bite, but flocks can kill them relatively easily

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Look, dryos attack animation is a peck, correct?

sinful cove
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If a utah manages to get lynch mobbed by something slower, smaller and weaker that just sounds like the utah's problem

ember ivy
sinful cove
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I mean dryo is faster than stego so its not as comparable

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But why doesnt the stego just bite

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Like its bite is about as strong as utah's isnt it

hollow canyon
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It's a bit weaker iirc

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Not that it matters, Dryo shouldn't be getting hit by that anyways

ember ivy
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Well one, dryos extremely fast compared to stego, 2, dryo is smaller and harder to hit

sinful cove
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If there is a hitbox issue stopping the dryo from being hit by the utah or stego that should be fixed but otherwise eh

slim dragon
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Small dinos flocks will be fixed too once trample gets added

ember ivy
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And have they every confirmed trampling?

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For every Dino?

sinful cove
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Yeah just step on the little shits im sure at least steg will get it

slim dragon
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Probably

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I think trample will simply deal damage if you walk over another dino with a large enough weight difference

ember ivy
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If trample was in, stego would have a better chance but still, why does a peck that looks like it does nothing, do 75?

sinful cove
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Utah has no excuse to be successfully body blocked by a dryo in the front or at its sides even with its lunge attack

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If dryo flocks are taking out utahs stronger and faster than them without bugs then good on them

ember ivy
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So, your saying it’s logical and completely fine to give a raccoon the bite force of a dog?

sinful cove
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If the dog gets hit enough it will eventually sustain lethal damage

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It can just run away if it doesn’t want to make use of the lunge attack and generally far better combat abilities/stats than the dryo

sonic flame
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Plus a single dryo isn’t a threat to a single Utah, you need a significant amount to stand much of a chance

limber elbow
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Cant a Utah jump over a dryo? Just do that If one tries to block your escape

lament cloak
ember ivy
limber elbow
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@ember ivy 1v1 me then I’ll be stego and u can be the dryo

lean lotus
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@ember ivy if you manage to do it again, get me a video.

ember ivy
limber elbow
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is that a no to the 1v1?

lament cloak
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and it better not be a brainless stego, because if you die to a dryo, you either dont deserve to be alive, or there is something wrong with hit boxes

limber elbow
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thats what i saying ill fight him bc i not just gunna sit there and let some dryo get head shots on me constantly

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if you are gunna claim a dryo can take on a stego to the point of it being a problem you should be expected to back that claim up smh

sonic flame
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If the stego is just swingingly wildly even a hypsi could probably do it

golden coral
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Hypsi I think can do it anyway, cause you can't hit hypsi in the first place

lament cloak
golden coral
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@lament cloak You sure you can hit a hypsi that is "ankleriding" you as adult stego? Cause I've heard you can't, tail won't hit and bite is too far in front to reach?

lament cloak
golden coral
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Stego turn is not the best, I doubt you can out turn a smaller and faster thing. Though not sure if stego is faster than hypsi?

cedar shore
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Not that you need to out turn anything as a stego. Its got pretty much a 360 degree attack radius

sinful cove
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Dryo doesn't need burrowing back. It needs a fix to its shitty dodge mechanic, a juvie stage that isn't snail slow and perhaps better maneuverability but not burrowing

slim dragon
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And it absolutely doesn't need a jump higher than Utahs'

stark knoll
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the tug of war idea has been temporarily scrapped due to the difficulty in adding it. evrima is in far too early of a state to add a mechanic that complex. as punch said, its a mechanic that the devs would want to come back to in the future

limber elbow
stark knoll
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lemme grab what punch said

limber elbow
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Ty

ember ivy
stark knoll
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tug of war is vastly different from pounce

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for the first part, refer to the posts i linked

slim dragon
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Saurian is a singleplayer game, The Isle is massively multiplayer. They are extremely different

novel tulip
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^

ember ivy
ember ivy
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Tug of war is different from pouncing, I’m comparing the two because both allow the victim to escape

cedar shore
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How are you supposed to escape when a deino has its jaws locked around you?

limber elbow
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The deino can’t even lunge at a fully grown stego rn Bc there’s no tug of war mechanic so it’s not like it will even be needed atm it’s not like anything smaller then the carno should even consider a fighting chance

ember ivy
ember ivy
limber elbow
# ember ivy Tug of war, as I said by getting it exhausted.

Okay let’s say the devs give the carno some bull shit viability in actually being able to pull and exhaust the deino. Even though it’s comparable to a human being grabbed by a large fully grown crocodile and being able to fight it... but you think a teno and a Utah would actually ever come close to giving it resistance?

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Look at the size difference the Utah and teno could fit more then 50% of there body mass inside the jaws of the deino

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What body parts of there’s would even still be able to touch the ground and pull against it

ember ivy
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Of course some animals are in extreme disfavor against deino in a tug of war, I agree with that

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But they should for the most part, be able to escape

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Like, if a deino is on 2% stam, it shouldn’t be lunging and eating a teno

limber elbow
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I think that’s what the oxygen level is for atm so they die from drowning instead of the bite itself so if a deino had 5% of stam and dragged it under it wouldn’t be able to hold on much longer

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And the teno would then be able to escape

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And the slow ass stam regen would leave the deino unable to bite the teno after it escapes

lean shoal
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as it stands how don described deinos matchups with its grab it will basically be able to drag something around 1000 kg to an auto death where as things like cerato magy tenonto and diablo have a slim chance of escape.

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but it cant pull something like a stego.

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its apex sized but hunts in the same realm of mid tiers like allo sucho and alberto.

jade mica
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Wait so carno has a chance to escape?

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Or did I misread things

cedar shore
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Tug of war might come in the future but not when update 3 is released.

lean shoal
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basically if the deino runs out of stam before it kills or drowns something the food gets away

wheat field
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Small Tier>Mid Tier>Deino>Apex Tier

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Im too tired to explain my thought process

thin herald
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Extra small > Small > Pseudo Mid > Mid > Pseudo Apex > Apex

wheat field
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^Deino is Psuedo Apex^

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A lot like modern day crocodiles

cedar shore
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I think its too early to say weather deino is an apex or not. It isnt even out for the public yet.

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Weight isnt the only factor that makes a dino an apex

safe anchor
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Deino is it’s own thing and play style

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I’d say for what the creature is it’s very balanced

gaunt jackal
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@proper glacier that feels like a #general-feedback post but idk and also it took me 2 minutes straight to find your that with thos capital i's

proper glacier
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Hahaha sorry. I know a lot of people have problems with my I. Thnx for the reply

brazen current
cedar shore
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yeah

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Epic

alpine plover
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500 bite force is absolutely pitiful for a grown deino. Like what the hell? One of the strongest bite forces in existence and it’s given a bite force 100 above last updates carnos bite? The literal strongest jaws of the crocodilians and its bite force is that low? It’s like the devs decided deino was just an oversized gecko. Scaling to body size even legacy dilos have a more powerful bite to weight ratio- so does evrima carno, and Utah. The weight is about right being a walking unit. But they took away what makes crocodiles crocodiles! Their goddamn bite!

golden coral
alpine plover
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The ingame biteforce is just that, an ingame value, that does not relate to anything irl. It'll have the biteforce that makes it balanced for it's playstyle most likely.
@golden coral It can’t 1 shot Utah’s- its jaws the size of Utah’s, can’t crush one between them

golden coral
alpine plover
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Like I said, balance. Stego does not oneshot a carno on the head (at least did not before update, no idea how it goes now), despite the fact that yes, a stego thagomizer hitting a carno in the head is instant death under normal circumstances.
@golden coral that is quite the valid point that you have made there. Apologizes. Simply ranting that they cut the balls off my boi

golden coral
#

The deino will have the value that makes sense for balance, and maybe, like with the stego, right now it does not have maximum power because well, it needs to have proper predators/threats and all.

#

No doubt when other bigger things are in, both of our favourites will need some rebalancing :D

alpine plover
#

No doubt when other bigger things are in, both of our favourites will need some rebalancing :D
@golden coral I hope. Because right now deino is nothing more then Utah tail riding fun on land. And semi buggy lunges that have crappy range.

sonic flame
#

How does it fair in the water tho?

#

But yeah, The main threat to a Deino isn't in game atm [Adult Spino] so if Deino was balanced around fighting something that doesn't exist, that's not very fun

#

likewise giving Deino an IRL biteforce or something too large makes it pointless to hang about in water

#

Those will both probably change when there are bigger threats tho

alpine plover
#

Deinos water capability are pretty solid. Good speed, can drag small creatures to the depths, kind of low ish oxygen compared to irl crocodiles, and for some reason its stam drops at a decent rate in water. Which doesn’t make sense cause again. Irl crocodilians can swim for practically ever lol

novel tulip
#

Imo it should be buffed to where a big sub adult or adult one shots an adult utah

#

But otherwise I thought it was balanced

alpine plover
#

I think give it 800 n of bite force even before the bigger stuff comes. Gives it a good thing to deter cocky Utah’s with. Plus gives it a more fitting strength. Then maybe increase it later on. Cause again. Deinos had a stronger bite than rexes.

#

Almost twice the strength of rexes infact.

golden coral
#

I would make the point that unlike stego (that at least before update oneshot utahs on head/bodyhit), the deino does have it's entirely own element to utilize, so there is that. You're not quite as bound to fight if you see a pack of utahs, as long as you have a river or lake nearby, which you really should have at all times.

alpine plover
#

Really liking the new water ways thou very scenic

novel tulip
#

I 1v1d a utah at 60% and it was able to facetank clear bites

golden coral
#

I'd explore by the rivers, but.. deinos xD

novel tulip
#

It took 5-6 bites before it jumped across the river and ran for a bit before dying of bleed

#

But in that time it landed like 20 on me

#

Because of how hard it is to get bites to register on utah

#

Given that 60% deino is like 2.5x its size and is a crocodile the utah should have dropped dead after 2 bites max imo

#

1 bite would rip a limb off or crush ribs

#

And since Utah is extremely agile it would still be balanced

pliant apex
#

deino is really hard to grow 5 hours takes pretty long and it takes a while for fish to repsawn and you always have the chance that a bigger deino comes past and eats you.

novel tulip
#

^ the bigger deinos are a huge threat and balance out juvi deinos being able to hide in water

pliant apex
#

and a few minuts I whas a adult deino and died still to 2 other adult deinos so its really hard to survive and fully grow to adult as deino

tidal jacinth
#

Deino is insanely easy to grow for the power you get out of it

limber elbow
#

I as a 30% plus Utah can kill deinos noticeably larger then me, the stress test only has 2 main dinos being played as, no group limits and no real land predators hunting

#

Saying the deino is to easy to grow atm isn’t really accurate saying these stress test servers are not really portraying how the survival aspect will really be

#

You aren’t going to have 5 + groups of deinos protecting each other, you aren’t going to have a complete absence of Utah’s or carnos, you won’t have mix packing

tidal jacinth
#

In terms of competition sure, but you can survive off of nothing but fish if you wanted to, even as a large deino

limber elbow
#

I haven’t made it past 50% due to the server wipe but I thought the deino was always planned to be able to sustain itself off of fish until it was a sub adult/ young adult

tidal jacinth
#

The issue is the fish just sit there and let you kill them

#

They aren't very quick and they don't fight back so deinos of any size can just sustain themselves off of fish

limber elbow
#

Idk even if they do enhance ai some fish spawn in rivers that are dead ends they even spawn at that one south water fall that drops into a giant bowl type thing and it’s the easiest place to fish

#

If it’s to easy then maybe decrease the spawn rate a lot more so it can’t really sustain itself to long by just camping and waiting for the next fish to spawn

#

But in terms of growth time changing like some players suggest I think the deino is in a good spot

grim salmon
#

I have conducted a mini experiment because i see people complaining about deino stam. I have failed to kill myself by running outta stam in the water. You gain your stam back once you hit the ground and plus your stam takes 1min 30sec to drain how you killing yourselves this way

sinful cove
#

Pteranodon is basically a paper plane of course he's gonna take tons of damage from anything with teeth

brittle scaffold
#

I dunno how a adult pteradon would die to a baby Utah though LOL

#

Totally didn’t happen to me.
totally

sinful cove
limber elbow
#

press space bar if that happens

brittle scaffold
#

I did and immediately ran out of stam

limber elbow
#

😳

brittle scaffold
#

Meanwhile

image0.jpg
crystal flame
#

I died to a juvie utah too as a grown ptera

#

Thought I could face tank baby

nova olive
#

yet I and 3 other dienos (admittedly all around or just above 10% growth) attacked a ~50% growth ptera and couldn't kill it. I alone hit it at least 4x with 11% growth, including at least 1 lunge attack and it still flew off. I think the new creatures both need buffs to stand up against the current roster.

novel tulip
#

I feel like for deino what they should do is make it very obvious when you use the swim sprint (theres already water splashes iirc), perhaps causing mud to cloud the water, showing where you are and what direction you're going, to reward deinos that are patient and take their time to mask their presence and create risk for those who recklessly sprint aeound

#

I dont like the ripples/bubbles idea because part of what makes deinos so cool, even as their prey, is that you dont see it coming

#

The swim sprint mud clouds/splashes would be nice so a deino in one area can't just chase you down the river undetected, instead of choosing a perfect strategic setup to ambush people at

alpine plover
#

@vagrant owl a pteranodon is just skin, hollow bones, and a bit of muscle

#

obviously it will be easily damaged

#

If a dog can tear up a kite into pieces, a young carno could do the same to a pterosaur

wheat field
#

@quartz matrix Deino can use an Alt bite like utah that allows him to turn in any direction they please fairly quickly while biting in that area at the same time

quartz matrix
#

ooh wasnt aware of that

alpine plover
#

Can carnos eat dead fish?

hollow canyon
#

Yes they can

alpine plover
#

Anyone on one of the eu servers with lots of deinos on a tiny island?

inland lagoon
alpine plover
inland gust
#

It would be nice to increase the visibility range with the growth stage of the crocodile.

#

Because in the adult stage, the radius of view is not much more than the length of the deyno

wheat field
#

If you scroll out it increases you visibility slightly

finite valve
#

Tried it as juvi and fully adult, no problems in cannibalism

wheat field
#

I used ptera cannibalism to escape death many times

ionic glacier
#

Did you find any counter play to Deinos ambushing you while drinking?

slim dragon
#

Don't go drink unless you're sure there's no deino around
When you arrive near water, make sure to check at a safe distance and listen carefully

gleaming lake
#

I have a problem with the game and it is that when I am inside it closes itself, is there a solution for that?

alpine plover
#

The deino tail slap thing is a good idea. Modern crocodiles use their tails to sometimes give a lion getting to cocky a powerful slap to deter them. The strength that allows them to plow through water and propel their entire body vertically out of the water with nothing but their tail, is also very useful for self defense.

novel tulip
#

If its silent either the deino is incredibly patient or there just isn't one

#

Doesn't work if you're a hopelessly slow dino though

alpine plover
#

I’ve delt with Utah’s before as a deino. Especially the really cocky annoying ones that will try to pester you every moment you’re out of the water. Best thing to do if your growing is wait till your 1400kg then lunge them. I’ve seen cocky raptors even enter the water going after smaller deinos. Many of those ones are now dead-

novel tulip
#

^ nothing can do anything to you if you just go in the water

#

Except bigger deinos obviously

alpine plover
#

That’s very true-

novel tulip
#

The alt bite is also a way to deal with utahs

#

Since it turns you around completely

#

But I think if youre a deino and you've strayed far enough from water to where animals can tailride you thats kind of your fault

#

Not opposed to a tail slap though that just does mild damage

#

And no bleed

stark knoll
#

@cedar shore health does not equal weight

#

utah had its weight reduced to real-life estimates

drowsy gorge
#

Do we know when bite force will be to real scale? Right now deino has 500n but a human has 1300n of bite force, 500n is how much a African frog has and today’s crocs have 16000n of bite force

stark knoll
#

they wont be, bite force is just damage

drowsy gorge
#

Ok that makes sense then

stark knoll
#

the Newton label should be removed imo, it just causes confusion

drowsy gorge
#

I was really confused when looked up bite forces of animals

lament cloak
#

they will probably change the biteforce display with the ui overhaul

inland lagoon
hollow canyon
#

Having eaten two different pteranodons one gave me quite a lot of food and the other one gave me next to nothing so it might be either due to bugs/the growth differences between Pteranodons.

cedar shore
#

Hopefully the UI overhaul will show all of the stats from every attack and its health

slim fox
#

Why does stego weigh so much?

hollow canyon
#

Because irl the largest specimen of Stegosaurus is estimated to weigh that much exactly.

slim fox
#

So I’m assuming the isle based their stego off of the stegosaurus Armatus

#

Ok if that’s the case that’s fair.

quick marsh
#

no stamina regen in flight?

stark knoll
#

nope

hollow canyon
#

Stegosaurus ungulatus iirc but yes the animals are generally in most cases based on their largest estimates. E.g. Deinosuchus despite being called "D.riograndensis" in the preview 2 years ago is actually the size of D.riograndensis(although not quite as big as its largest specimens).

alpine plover
#

I'm curious as to why they chose Deino, or D.riograndensis, instead of Purusaurus. Last I recall Puru was larger than Deino by a little bit, unless of course what I read was wrong/outdated.

stark knoll
#

deino is now much larger

#

but beyond that i assume its just personal preference of the devs

alpine plover
#

Makes sense

slim fox
#

Curious to see how Deino holds against allo , carno, cera, and sucho. I don’t think it will be a apex killer like people had hoped a few years back.

lean shoal
#

deino is meant to be apex sized but mostly eat smaller animals. things like tenonto magy and diablo are staples for it and it could probably take something like a maia or allo if given the chance, but its not meant to be a true apex animal. its entire kit revolves around drowning prey.

lament cloak
slim fox
#

Is there a drowning mechanic yet? Usually when I lunge at something it just dies so I haven’t experienced actually grabbing something and pulling it into the water.

stark knoll
#

yup

slim fox
#

That is so exciting! I want wait to test that out.

stark knoll
#

its pretty scary, when youre getting drowned your screen fades to black and you can hear your heartbeat

slim fox
#

I lunged and adult Utah and it just died so I need to get some bigger dinos!

stark knoll
#

once youre over about 4 tons you can grab full grown carnos, too c:

slim fox
#

Is there a struggle mechanic? Or once you get grabbed is that it?

stark knoll
#

thats a good question! i havent been grabbed yet, i think you automatically struggle

#

i do know that if the deino runs out of stamina, it lets go of you

slim fox
#

I have to say the devs did a really good job with this patch. There are some small complaints but over all I had a very fun experience growing.

hollow canyon
#

Iirc Punch said that struggling is not going to be introduced with this patch. Deino just loses stamina and when it runs out it lets you go, if it doesn't you die.

novel tulip
#

Stego needs predators rn

drowsy gorge
#

@lyric ice if thats true then that should be something looked into, but you also need to factor in the skill of the players

lyric ice
#

Since no one can have that much combat experience i think you are absolutly right about that one. But seeing Stego tanking hits and healing bleed like it was nothing it left me with an unpleasant feeling.

drowsy gorge
#

there is most likely some unbalanced thing in what your talking about but we will see in time how bad it is

novel tulip
#

I feel like if a stego gets ambushed by an adult deino it should take heavy injuries

#

Like switch to defense and find a bush to rest in type injuries

#

Not start a fight type and prance around type injuries

drowsy gorge
#

I can see there being a problem were the stego gets a few hits in then goes away to heal and just repeats until its dead or the denio is dead, and I have seen this with other dinos, and I dont think the devs are looking to make a game like that were it is just back and forth

lyric ice
#

Thanks guys for sharing your Opinion.

slim fox
#

I personally feel like everything should have a weakness. Stego should be no exception. Deino should be very strong in water but it should be especially terrifying on the initial ambush lunge. This is balanced out by deino being absolutely awful fighting on land and if it loses that initial ambush lunge it loses its meal.

That being said, stego just being able to walk up to rivers and stomp on deino is not at all fair. Also stego is a herbi so it’s going to usually travel in a herd. It will usually be protected if it goes to the water with its herd. Deino should have the upper hand against a stego that is
A.) alone or with few other stegos
B.) Drinking at water.

It’s weakness is it’s head and front area. So it would make sense for a fully grown deino to attempt an ambush.

I don’t think it should outright kill it but I think it should be able to attempt to drag it into water to drowned it.

novel tulip
#

Idk if its possible for it to pull an adult stego underwater

#

But it should deal a lot of damage

slim fox
#

Pull it not the right word

#

Drag fits better. I feel like if the deino ambush lunges and stego and the hit connects it should go into a tug-of-war situation where you have to try to drag it into the water. This will cost you stam and you have the choice to let go if you feel like you are losing the battle.

stark knoll
#

the devs plan on trying that in the future, but itll be a really complicated mechanic to add. lets hope it works out c:

slim fox
#

I do hope so c:

golden coral
#

@slim fox Do not balance for herd situations, balance is done 1v1. Deino can after all group up too, so that's not a valid argument for saying it should have an upper hand or not. Also predators should always be weaker, so they have to properly hunt, and fail most hunts, honestly. Aside from that, stego is not main deino prey, it should, like other big things, be a situational/weak stego/whatever to attempt it.

@drowsy gorge Deino has far better chance of taking a hit, swimming to the other side of the river, and heal. What is the stego going to do, swim after it and die? Besides, wallow is often done at the riverside, does not sound smart to do if you know there's a big croc or two in there.

@lyric ice Unless the stego was in the water and swimming, or possibly in deep water where it could only walk, it was not in the deinos territory, and should still have the upper hand. That is nothing strange. How did it even stomp them, how did the fight go/what did it look like?

drowsy gorge
golden coral
#

If that stego was swimming, then those deinos either were incredibly bad, or there's something weird going on. Stego can only bite in water, and I sincerely doubt a stego outbites/tanks a fully grown deino, much less two of them.

#

Unless they were just chilling and let the stego run up and get a few free hits possibly, but then, well... that's on them I would say.

drowsy gorge
#

idk the full story of what happened I am just saying what i know from it

golden coral
#

Fair enough, but I can't judge the need for a buff or nerf without knowing that, since that can change the whole matchup and all.

lyric ice
# golden coral <@!102227557520277504> Do not balance for herd situations, balance is done 1v1. ...

Swinging his tail most of the time. Chasing an injured deino to the other side of the river. Started mallow when he bled, went into bush healing bleed. He repeated that till the deino was dead. Maybe Deino could have capitalized when he was swimming, but because of lack of expierience he wasnt able to. It did not felt like Deino was to weak but rather Stego invincible if that makes sense to you?

golden coral
#

Maybe. Let's see, I'm assuming the stego got the jump on the deino then, and hit it first. Deino swims over, but can't recover in time before the stego swam over as well and kept attacking? Did the stego fight them one at a time, cause you mentioned two deinos, right?

#

And yeah, lack of experience is one thing at that. I don't know how well/bad deino handles bleed for that matter, so not sure how well it could move after the first engagement, so that could matter. And it's possible that deino needs a bit more biteforce, so it can kill swimming things easier, but that's just it, it's not supposed to fight on land, so I can't say it seems like it's too weak, more that it chose a poor battleground.

#

@lyric ice But yeah, I'd have to see the battle, cause there's too many questionmarks or "what could you have done differently" things to easily judge it. And if there were two of the deinos at the same time, that's.. I don't know, I fail to see how they could not inflict sufficient damage on the stego to at least make it go the hell away if they worked together.

#

Though maybe I'm just a bit more concerned with my own survival as stego, maybe others just gives no shits and goes all in.. :p

lyric ice
#

Hmm what concerned me the most was the speed stego healed off the bleed when he wallowed. Some bites -> Wallow and heal for what felt like One minute. It was just weird that stego took hits and still went through deep water to get to the Deinos.

#

It was like "Why is he allowed to do that" if you understand what mean. I mean i was aware of the fact that Stego is supposed to be stronger in a head on 1v1 land combat but if you got deinos in water circling around the stego i feel like they should have some means to get him.

novel tulip
#

What i don't like about it is the stego isn't being punished for doing anything

#

Like wallowing mid fight, going in crocodile infested waters, drinking without checking for crocs, etc

#

Like you can play as recklessly as you want

lyric ice
#

Maybe we will see further adjustments in the Future. In the End its still a Beta and things are not in stone yet.

novel tulip
#

Yeah

#

Getting headshot by a deino lunge is something a stego player should fear

#

Even if it doesn't one shot them

#

Hopefully if they add in struggling where its a stamina battle that could add a new dimension to it

golden coral
# lyric ice Hmm what concerned me the most was the speed stego healed off the bleed when he ...

Could be that deino does not do much bleed at all? Because that one I can see, I rarely had issue with the bleed from the deino attacks on my stego. I'm thinking it's designed for the drowning, not so much fighting, much less bleeding prey. And that trying to bleed, or even outdamage, other stuff, is just not how it's meant to work. Would also be why deino vs deino is a harsh battle, you have to beat the other guy into submission, you can't just drown or bleed I'm guessing. But it is a bit odd he could just swim freely after the deino, but that could come down to hits, (with it's performance issues potentially) as well. Did the stego get a head hit, a body hit, a tail hit? And so on.

#

@novel tulip I think stego is simply too big to be proper prey, just like rex or trike or anky or spino or giga. Or any of the even bigger stuff. You're a mid tier hunter, but with otherwise high stats and power, just not for the fighting or hunting. Wallowing midfight should be an issue, unless the hits were traded and the deino is on the other side resting as well, it does go both ways after all. And I've yet to see a stego walk into deep water with 2 fully grown deinos right there, but maybe that is possible. As for drinking, I'm still wary at least, cause even if it can't drag me in, it can still inflict damage, and there could be more than one, in which case it does hurt, I can assure you of that much. Could just be that deinos need to learn how to use the lunge properly, and plan out how to retreat and take turns and stuff.

It would be really nice with a proper struggle mechanic, but even with one, I doubt stego or anything else that size+ is going to be anything but a opportunistic hunt, or when you really have no choice/have at least two deinos. (though it's a trick to not just get BoB mosa chain grabbing so there is that..)

toxic crypt
#

I don't deino should really be going for stego in possible. Furthermore, isn't deino faster in water? How are you getting attacked by a stego in the water?

golden coral
#

I've been trying to figure out how the battle went down, and who did what, cause it does sound odd, but I guess it's possible.

toxic crypt
#

I don't think a stego should really be killable by a deino unless the deino pulls off a proper ambush. I've seen so many deino try charging onto land to fight terrestrial creatures on land. It's goofy.

golden coral
#

To be fair, what constitutes a proper ambush here? It can't really lunge at is, or shouldn't, it gets stunned I think, which might very well contribute to why the deinos are getting their asses handed to them... Just realized. But if a deino comes upon a stego in the middle of the river swimming, yeah that stego should be in the shit, no doubt.

toxic crypt
#

Does stego have an attack while swimming?

golden coral
#

Bite

toxic crypt
#

Deinos are dying to stego bites?

#

Also, you're way faster in water than a stego. Just hit and run it

lyric ice
golden coral
#

No, I'm guessing what happened is the stego swiped the deino, it swam over to try and recover, stego swam after, and they went at that for a little. No idea how badly wounded the deino was, but it apparently did not try and go after the stego while it was swimming over so.

lyric ice
#

through water

#

the whole fight was odd

golden coral
#

Which is really odd, considering stego is shit in the water.. :p

toxic crypt
#

Why did the deino not just move away from the stego?

golden coral
#

But I do wonder if the deino lunged or not

lyric ice
#

maybe the distance he had to swim was just to short

golden coral
#

Maybe

#

But then that would fall under deino proper planning

toxic crypt
#

Why go back and forth when you could just go down stream and leave

lyric ice
#

he did lunge but iam not sure if he landed his lunge correctly

golden coral
#

At least I would say it does, you need to be aware of your surroundings and how they can be used for and against you

#

Ah

#

Lunge at big stuff = stunned deino

#

That probably did not help his ability to get out before stego fucked him up

#

I think it's like carno charge at least

#

I know I read something about it staggering if you lunge things you can't grab

toxic crypt
#

If deino has the chance to swim it can just leave, though

lyric ice
#

in the end i just wanted to know what the rest of you is thinking about that thema

toxic crypt
#

Nothing forces it to stay

#

That deino was just braindead for not swimming out of danger

lyric ice
#

i mean deino is 8 tons beast

toxic crypt
#

Cool.

golden coral
toxic crypt
#

I think stego should be the stronger of the two because in most situations the stego is the slower option.

golden coral
#

Weight does not neccearily equate to what you can fight or hunt though, not anymore. Weight does not relate to health either, much less in combat.

toxic crypt
#

Sure, if you Benny Hill your way back and forth between the riverbanks, you die. But that's a really stupid deino.

lament cloak
#

what many people fail to understand is that deino is meant to hunt things well below its weight class, especially things that don't use multi-foot long spikes as a weapon

toxic crypt
#

And it's an ambush predator that prefers being in water

#

There's a reason even big irl crocs feel uncomfortable when caught outside the water

lament cloak
#

maybe, just maybe deino should be able to hunt stego atm, just because there isnt very much in the way of playables, but once a few more animals come in i feel deino needs to have no chance to take down a stego unless its already swimming

golden coral
#

They can, up to 70% stego growth for that matter. But the whole "can/can not" is a little meh to be honest. Should be a better, more dynamic mechanic for it all really.

queen dune
#

Why would an 8 ton deinosuchus not be able to take down a 6ton stegosaurus if it catches it by surprise? It should never be a one shot, but seems illogical for it to not be capabe of such

golden coral
#

No it should be able to hunt them, same for taking down a rex or anything else, just very difficult. And with a proper play/counterplay preferably, so the deino has to be good at it, or the stego possibly if it's on the defender.

queen dune
#

Agreed

toxic crypt
#

Stego should be the stronger of the two, it's the slower of the two

lyric ice
#

i dont want things to get one shotted like in legacy

toxic crypt
#

unless the deino leaves the water like a muppet

lament cloak
lyric ice
queen dune
queen dune
toxic crypt
#

Why is it even an issue? Deinos can hunt every other species in the game

lyric ice
toxic crypt
lyric ice
#

in 1v1

#

i mean why should stego go for a swim in the firstplace?

toxic crypt
#

Idk, but until fracture is a thing I don't think it should matter

queen dune
#

That will just make deino and stego unbalanced for a very long time. They said they've wanted to balance deino for the current roster, so why is stego above that?

toxic crypt
#

Deino is balanced though?

#

Deino doesn't need to hunt stegos

queen dune
#

But it should be capable

toxic crypt
#

And is more than capable of just swimming the fuck away

#

It doesn't matter, it still isn't unbalanced

#

you might not like that it can't murder everything, but that doesn't make it unbalanced

#

It survives just fine. Actually, more than fine rn.

queen dune
#

That's like saying that a giga shouldn't kill a rex. Yes, it's dangerous and risky af for the giga, but it should be capable regardless

toxic crypt
#

But if the giga is able to escape the rex and still cannot defeat it it isn't unbalanced

#

you just personally dislike it

#

Deino is still plenty able to thrive

golden coral
#

@queen dune Lack of mechanic I suspect.

#

Simple as that, that's why we have the "immune" stego, and why that's balanced. Because the counterplay does not exist.

toxic crypt
#

Judging by the squirming masses on every riverbank I see, deinos are doing just fine without being able to kill stego easily

lyric ice
#

because of cannibalism

#

and its still the beta

#

so everone wants to play deino

drowsy gorge
#

^

toxic crypt
#

And I'm unconvinced that stego can't be hit-and-run by a smart deino in the water

golden coral
#

Though to be fair, not everything needs to be able to kill everything else. So that's not neccesarily a good balance point. It's survival, not fighting after all.

#

And yeah, can't measure population right now

#

Was the same issue when stego was new

lyric ice
toxic crypt
#

The only anecdote I've seen in here so far was some deino who thought running back and forth was a smart plan.

queen dune
golden coral
#

So of course there's a lot of pteras/deinos right now

toxic crypt
golden coral
#

I'm also wary of growing a stego cause the time + boring growth, with the risk of a wipe.

#

And it could be the same for other stego players for all I know.

toxic crypt
#

I'm sure deino'll be better when it can deal fracture damage, but it really doesn't need to murder stego in the meantime

#

It's surviving just fine and still has practical immunity in the water.

drowsy gorge
#

no

queen dune
# toxic crypt Right, so it'd have to leave

So again, deino isn't the threat its supposed to be. I think it is like @golden coral said, the lack of a tug o' war mechanic makes it so stego doesn't have to worry at all about deino

drowsy gorge
#

like stated before cannibalism

toxic crypt
#

They're still surviving fine

drowsy gorge
#

your not getting the point

toxic crypt
#

Deinos aren't going extinct

#

they aren't unviable

#

They aren't somehow broken and unplayable

drowsy gorge
#

no one is saying they arent

hollow canyon
#

Stego has issues with different animals than Deino - it specifically struggles against animals that Deinosuchus hunts very well. They are just made to do different things.

toxic crypt
#

Then how is it unbalanced?

golden coral
#

@queen dune The alternative would be just dying to the deino, so there is that. Unless there's something that'll prevent you from being drowned?

toxic crypt
#

I don't see deino requiring stego murdering abilities super hard to be considered balanced

golden coral
#

And Aken does have a fair point, it's not neccesarily that deino needs to threaten stego, it has threats in the form of utahs, and carnos too possibly, not sure how good they still are to be fair but still.

drowsy gorge
#

a good stego player has no counter herp

queen dune
#

That makes stego, a 6ton creature, able to ignore an 8ton deinosuchus

toxic crypt
queen dune
#

I don't think that makes sense

toxic crypt
#

Deino is literally untouchable in the water, what kind of statement is that?

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
drowsy gorge
#

its legit meant to die on land and live in water

hollow canyon
#

There's 0 reason for the Deinosuchus to go on land though

toxic crypt
#

Good deino has no counterplay, good stego has no counterplay

#

I fail to see how there's any difference

drowsy gorge
#

a deino can get countered by the swarms of other deinos

toxic crypt
#

A stego can get countered by a good carno or another stego, then?

hollow canyon
#

So... the only thing that can kill a Deinosuchus is... another Deinosuchus. Yea that sounds like balance.

drowsy gorge
#

did I say that

hollow canyon
#

Going by that logic you can counter a Stegosaurus by bringing a Stegosaurus of your own.

drowsy gorge
#

that it could only die to that

toxic crypt
#

That was the example you used to defend your point

hollow canyon
#

What else do you think a Deino can die to in the game if it plays smart?

toxic crypt
#

Deino in the water is literally untouchable for most of the cast

drowsy gorge
#

i have died to stegos, carnos and utahs as a deino

#

nope

toxic crypt
#

Yes

#

Carnos and utahs can't dive, and you're much faster than anything else while swimming

#

You're always able to just swim tf away

hollow canyon
#

Yea it is pretty untouchable in the water. You can always just retreat if things aren't going your way. If you're dying to Carnos and Utahs it's entirely on you.

toxic crypt
#

Actually, stego is never untouchable, so it'd seem to me that deino must be more broken than stego by your logic

hollow canyon
#

I've killed a number of Deinos as a Carno(not fully grown ones) even in those circumstances it was entirely their fault, the smart ones had no issues getting back into water, swimming onto an islet surrounded by water or the other bank of the river and that was it.

toxic crypt
#

The dumb deinos stay on land because they think they own the world

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
#

No he didn't

#

On land

hollow canyon
#

I don't think that claiming that Deino dies only if it messes up and plays really badly is your point

toxic crypt
#

And if it is, stego can be played horribly and get killed

drowsy gorge
#

sorry miss read part of it, but i have seen in many cases other denios and my self dieing to carnos and stegos in water

toxic crypt
#

Then you're not doing a great job?

#

Just swim away from them.

#

It isn't difficult

drowsy gorge
#

right ill go swim away from anything that gets in the water then

toxic crypt
#

There's no invisible wall forcing you to engage with them

novel tulip
#

I've snatched and killed baby deinos from the water as a carno specifically because they were swimming at the surface where I could see them

drowsy gorge
#

and you saying that says that the stego is unbalance in water

toxic crypt
novel tulip
#

Nothing does lmao

hollow canyon
#

I've killed some Deinos by using the momentum that carried me into the water to stay for a moment on them and kill them by the shore but in general that's a very risky play cause if there are larger Deinos around you can get lunged and killed on the point.

drowsy gorge
#

^

novel tulip
#

They paid the price for not paying attention

drowsy gorge
#

again my point

toxic crypt
#

Again, the submerged deino is untouchable at the moment

drowsy gorge
hollow canyon
#

@toxic crypt If they were smarter they wouldn't have allowed me to maul them on the shore for a long time before I did that.

toxic crypt
drowsy gorge
hollow canyon
#

Cause that was typically more of a finisher than a specific strategy to take down Deinos.

toxic crypt
#

No, I said to dive if you're an infant being mauled by a predator multitudes larger than yourself

drowsy gorge
#

you never said that, you only said to dive/swim away

toxic crypt
#

Right, if an adult carno is attacking your fresh spawn deino, you should maybe just dive and swim tf away

#

fail to see how that's unbalanced

drowsy gorge
#

sure

#

its not

toxic crypt
#

@hollow canyon Am I missing something? How is that unbalanced at all?

hollow canyon
#

@toxic crypt It's not, it's them being bad. I'm just saying that it's pretty much the only way in which a Carno/Utah can kill a Deino in the water... and even that is risky.

drowsy gorge
#

I cant argue with someone who says that if the deino dies the player is shit at the game

toxic crypt
#

Deino is untouchable in the water, while stego is literally never absolutely untouchable. Please tell me how stego's unbalanced and the croc's not?

hollow canyon
#

Deino can die just fine - to other Deinos, if it dies to something else it messed up... badly on top of that.

drowsy gorge
#

i also cant argue with someone who is implying that denios should not be in water

toxic crypt
#

I never implied that

hollow canyon
#

They should be in the water

novel tulip
#

Theyre supposed to be in water and they get punished for going on land

hollow canyon
#

^

toxic crypt
#

You complained that stego was untouchable, when deino is actually untouchable unless you're totally braindead

drowsy gorge
#

I never said that

#

never once said stego was untouchable

toxic crypt
#

So if stego needs a counter, what's deino's counter?

drowsy gorge
#

counter vs untouchable

toxic crypt
#

answer me

drowsy gorge
#

denios counter is other denios carnos and stegos

toxic crypt
#

What is deino's counter? To me it seems it has none.

#

Carnos and stegos cannot dive under the water to get deino, and others of the same species holds true for stego as well

hollow canyon
#

Let's put it this way - the only animal that can reliably hunt and kill Deinos in the game is Deino itself.

drowsy gorge
#

reliably yes

hollow canyon
#

Meanwhile all the other animals have animals other than themselves that can reliably hunt and kill them.

toxic crypt
#

Stego can be reliably killed by utahs and carnos

#

They are still capable of hit-and-run tactics, which really work well against stego

drowsy gorge
#

not at all

novel tulip
#

Since when have carnos been able to hunt stego

drowsy gorge
#

I don't know if you have played a denio but they cant turn around in time for the life of them

toxic crypt
#

Carnos have been able to hunt stegos for a while even before the beta

hollow canyon
#

For quite some time, in the public branch Carnos have been mauling Stegos for months now

toxic crypt
#

On land, sure

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
#

In the water you can dive as a deino and become invincible

novel tulip
#

How many carnos do you need?

toxic crypt
novel tulip
#

I've tried hunting one in a group of 3 before and its literally impossible

toxic crypt
#

You can bite the tip of the stego's tail when it swipes at you as a carno

drowsy gorge
toxic crypt
#

Sure, ptera is op if you want to consider stego op for not having a counter (which it does)

drowsy gorge
#

i said a good player not the stego in genaral

hollow canyon
#

Do you use alt bite while trying to get the animal that's behind you Chumlee?

drowsy gorge
hollow canyon
#

From what I've heard it's bugged for some people but for those that have it working it allows Deinos to turn around just fine

toxic crypt
#

No, the alt

drowsy gorge
#

which one is the alt

toxic crypt
#

You turn around instantly and bite shit

drowsy gorge
#

from the testing I have done that only works as adult unless its bugged

hollow canyon
#

It's alt + lmb

toxic crypt
#

Think how saurian's croc work

golden coral
#

@novel tulip 1 carno if you use the tail hitbox strategy or are just really good at baiting, two carnos will take the stego, using tail hitbox or head baits/runs. Carnos can and do hunt stegos quite easily, eaiser than utahs almost, on the public branch. No idea how current beta has changed it, except the no more tail hitbox thing.

hollow canyon
#

If you're not using that/it's not working for you it might explain why you're struggling with defending yourself.

drowsy gorge
#

i have only been able to do it as adult

golden coral
#

Seems like a fair few issues with balance can be attributed to bugs and/or not knowing exactly how a mechanic works.

hollow canyon
#

It should be usable at every age

#

If you can't use it as a youngling then it's probably bugged or something

#

but it's meant to be usable even by fresh spawns

drowsy gorge
#

that makes more sense i was thinking it was age related

novel tulip
#

I can see baiting it into a tail swipe and then running in on its undefended side but by the time you run in the other tail swipe has already finished

#

And one tail swipe from stego to a carno puts you out of the action, two will kill you

golden coral
#

You can take tailshots, and even bodyshots, and on public branch, just run off to wallow, and heal up. You'll be fine. You overestimate how dangerous stegos really are. Swing may cover some range, but the tail hit thing works. The baiting works by running the moment the stego swings, the tail only does damage at a certain point, so by the time you're hitting the head, the swing is on it's way back, and it does not have time to swing to hit you again, except maybe a tail hit.

drowsy gorge
#

alright stego tail swipe needs a nerf in water

#

they just sit on the river edge and reach halfway across the river and all the way to the bottom

#

tail swipe should not work near water as it would slow the tail down way to much

golden coral
#

Stego can't even tailswipe while swimming?

drowsy gorge
#

no

#

at the waters edge

#

they get halfway in the water

#

there tail can reach to the bottom of rivers

golden coral
#

Hm

drowsy gorge
#

its the stupidest thing I have died to in my 5 years of playing this game

#

that guy who said stegos are not op in water has not seen anything

golden coral
#

It does sound a bit weird

#

Are they like, leaning down/standing on the edge of a river or so?

drowsy gorge
#

yes

#

they killed like 4 denios who were at the bottom of a decently deep river

golden coral
#

Ah, yeah, that shouldn't be a thing

drowsy gorge
#

they can legit take over a river

golden coral
#

I can get the whole, turn tail towards river, protect yourself/discourage attacker, but using it offensively... not so sure

#

That should be a defensive thing only, to discourage an attempted lunge/attack, not to somehow get the deinos if they're down in the water

drowsy gorge
#

ikr

#

thats something that HAS to be changed or I can see some bad things coming

#

the spikes on the tail picked me up on the river bed and flung me out of the river and I died its so dumb

golden coral
#

If you can, get a recording of the whole thing next time, it's always helpful to see, and easier to understand than just having it described

drowsy gorge
#

ill try

#

this is about the spot the tail got me at

unknown.png
golden coral
#

Hm

#

It looks decently deep, but now you're tiny so the scale is a bit off I think

drowsy gorge
#

thats an adult i think

unknown.png
#

its the river bed entrance to the swamp with that log across the entrance if you know the place

golden coral
#

Nope, I'm roaming on my stego, trying to relearn the map currently

#

But yeah, that looks deep enough, so it sounds odd if the stego could somehow get you there

drowsy gorge
#

they use the shorelines to angle the tail down into the river and go into the river just enough so as not to swim to to go down as far as they can and then they can reach the bottom, the tail swing in water like that should not work at all and consume alot of stam as its working against water

delicate snow
#

Personally i think the Ptera should be able to gain stam while Gliding AT least a little. Its so hard as a hatchy/juvi to stay in the air and it takes so long for it to gain stam on the ground especially when these Dinos weren't meant to stay on the ground for long periods of time; Especially when you don't have the option to land somewhere safe. You could be flying into a carnivores mouth with no choice.

inland lagoon
golden coral
#

@alpine plover Quick note, last I checked, stego does actually have an increased multiplier on it's head compared to the other dinos. So that's a thing already, and I'm not sure it's actually all that good.

alpine plover
golden coral
#

Yeah. Of course, it could have been changed again with this update, but we'd need to test for all of that. But I know I read in some update that they did up the head multiplier for stego specifically.

frosty heron
#

@alpine plover While I agree with you, the fact you're asking for something that negatively affects Stego is enought reason for Herbie mains to downvote it, yet they fixed the tail bug issue and they nerfed Utah pounce they still complaining about Stego being bad animal which I strongly disagree after playing it and fight them in different scenarios

golden coral
#

@frosty heron Apparently one full pounce can now bleed out a stego, so I don't know how "nerfed" that is quite honestly. Beyond that, stego lacks a proper swing attack, which makes it shit at defending itself, it also lacks a mobile attack, which is another issue. Besides, I don't think most mind if deino gets a little more powerful, but it's not meant to hunt things well that it can't grab and drown. Should it be a bit more lethal vs stego, yes, two or three big crocs should make a stego be wary/afraid, but that does not mean it should hunt grown stegos unless in said groups, and even then, it should not be preferred prey, rather a opportunistic one. Especially since deino, unlike stego, has it so much better survivability wise as it stands right now, something people seem to discount for some reason.

frosty heron
# golden coral <@!435451875387506690> Apparently one full pounce can now bleed out a stego, so ...

Since I didn't had the opportunity to test the bleed on the pounce yet I can't say much but you won't die to 4 Utahs pouncing at you at once now, however, it is indeed nerfed, not in the Stego matchup but overall, if you miss the pounce you get a 2-3 seconds Stun animation, that's enough for a Carno with good reaction time to murder you. Talking about Stego capabilities, right it doesn't has a mobile attack and in case it gets added in a future should be a weaker attack than a full slow recovery swing, that way you just won't spam it like Unga bunga player and makes you untouchable while sending anything that gets closes to you to the moon

#

And yes I had played Stego and fought enought of them to notice they just spam the attack when people gets close, the fact most player aren't smart using it doesn't mean Stego is bad, Teno in good hands is pretty good aswell and yet people still asking for buffs, people maybe should learn their Dino properly

golden coral
#

Pretty sure if the four of them pounces you, you'll die, maybe not much faster cause bleed based, but since that would be well above one utahs full pounce in bleed, it would make no difference, unless there's something else going on in how the bleed is calculated. The stun on miss pounce is a nerf for utah in general, not related to stego, and stego would be one of the ones least capable of capitalizing on that anyway, being slowest and with the worst attack for offense. And yeah, I'd be fine with a mobile version of the attack being more rearward limited, so it can't be used very well for active defense, much less offense. And eh, spamming is punished now, pretty sure jab cost is increased, and that's how you punish said spamming, not by making attacks bad or something else.

#

Spamming attacks should be punished no matter what playable anyway, with stamina costs or things like utah pounce stun maybe, though that one only counts if it misses, so it's a bit more specific. And no, stego being bad has nothing to do with spamming or not spamming attacks, that's the thing. If it was, it would be simple to fix, just don't spam your attacks.

frosty heron
#

Well idk in the current QA version but on Update 2 Stego tail swings Stam cost is a joke, and I'm ok with that if we keep the "If I miss a big swing I'm able to get bites as a fast carnivore" that makes the punishing more rewarding for the hunters and honestly puts on the table the player skill also, Stam battles works better on Teno since the Stamina drain of the strongest attacks there are fairly high and the Stam recovery is not the best

golden coral
#

Go check out the beta, and let me know what you think. I think it's been increased at least, and if it hasn't, it should. Cause I do agree that current public stamina cost is a joke :p

#

And yeah, missing should be punished too, but that comes down more to timing and manuvering and all that, more than stamina cost itself.

frosty heron
#

Right now you can punish Stego for doing front and back attacks, of you want to avoid that do side attacks, in my opinion that's fair if we count the amount of bites you need on a Stego as Carno compared to the 2 hits the Stego needs (in some scenarios its only 1 well placed headshot to Carnos with locked damage) it will be fine to buff Stego damage when bigger predators are in and make that 1 shot any mid tier, but there's a long road for big boys to be added

golden coral
#

Or well, being baited punishes you, but that should also go for all playables really.

#

And yeah, damage is fine for now, though I disagree with the balance mentality in general there.

#

But that's a slightly different issues. And the same goes for deino no doubt, it'll probably get more powerful later on.

frosty heron
golden coral
#

I mostly take issue with the fact that for some reason we have a stego that jabs, instead of properly swings. It's.. not a precision fighter, so what is going on here? :p And they do need an attack on the move, otherwise you can just do the carno "zoning" thing without being pressured, and that just seems odd to me. Also it would need one to be able to walk away from a rex or giga while still being threatening. Since stego should not really want to fight in the first place, it's not an offensively oriented herbi unlike trike or even shant, it just wants to go away and prevent you from getting close/following.

#

So it's less stats when it comes to me and others saying stego is bad, it's the.. design of the attacks I suppose.

#

And yeah, testing when you have to grow for 5 hours, and growth is as boring as it is.. no thanks :p

#

I can't wait for proper mechanics to make growth fun and interesting. Biggest deterrent for being stego right now for me, it's just so damn boring to grow!

frosty heron
#

I completely agree with that, just make it if you stop to being defensive all stationary swing attacks are the powerful ones while attacking on the move does little dmg in comparison but gives the predator a reason to stay away

#

But what I've seen about other people asking for some ridiculous stuff that would make Stego untouchable in the current build is just ugh... Not fair tbh, like right now if I grow one I can face my thagomizer on a river and bully Deinos lmao

golden coral
#

Yeah, that's stupid. Stego should not really be bullying the deinos. One thing to be "safe", another to be good enough to actually go on the offense vs them.

frosty heron
golden coral
#

And yeah, nothing should be untouchable to everything, I'm okay with something not being the right target for something else, why I don't agree that stego is incinvible just because deino has a bad matchup, since utahs and possibly carnos can still take it down. And I'm guessing that's why deino isn't as powerful as it maybe "should" be, cause right now, that would make it untouchable, especially with the use of water.

#

Eh, I've grown two stegos so far, though maybe I've just been lucky. And yeah, up until young adult stego, you're still vunerable to grown deinos.

frosty heron
#

It's indeed not invencible, I was able to fight 2 Stegos (left click spammers) as solo Carno and did fairly well, the fun thing is, I died to Utahs in that fight not to Stegos lmao

#

That happened on Update 2 btw

golden coral
#

Makes sense, not as if stego is any more offensively oriented there than in current beta. A stego should not have the mentality of a trike, it just won't go well for it if it does.

#

If you want to be an aggressive herbi, trike, maybe theri, and even the hadrosaurs will be there for you. If you prefer to just chill and keep things at bay, anky or stego should suit you better.

frosty heron
#

Teno right now is a very offensive Herb, and does it well, could be played defensively against bigger predators and still does great, the only issue I've find on Teno it's the Stam workout, if you miss a slam/kick you lose a lot of Stam and doesn't recover very well

#

In fact that can be used against it if the predators are good players. But yet everything that tried to fight me gets bodied TI_Wheeze

golden coral
#

Tenno is a great playable, and my second favourite of the current herbis. Only played it before stego came out, but stego is and will probably remain my all time favourite, with kentro coming in second when it comes out.

frosty heron
#

Teno rewards a lot the precision and well placed attacks

rocky sparrow
#

not sure why people think pteras need more stam, they're already in the air for an extremely long time

delicate snow
# inland lagoon Then ptera would be untouchable, if stam flying regen could be made. Ptera now i...

Well I mean the Ptera isn't meant to be a grounded dino, Its a scavenger class and they're not even supposed to fight any other dinos, they're a fisher and scavenger. They need the chance to get out when being stalked. Carnivores on the ground can see them land and if they've got no stam, that gives them no chance to escape. If it were only a small amount of stam re-gen it will make them want to rest but you have that chance to get up and off of the ground as well to go find a safer spot to rest.

viral walrus
#

just because you're a scavenger doesn't mean you should get a free pass. You can literally avoid anything ever by just flying away. If you're low on stam at the wrong time than thats fair game. Being more vulnerable also spices things up.

pearl chasm
#

not really as a hatchy legit runs out in 2 flaps

delicate snow
#

its not the Adult, im more worried about its the young stages where flight is literally pathetic lmao

pearl chasm
#

if we going realistic a hatchling would just outright die without its parents around let alone be able to fly away.
And what about when bone break is reintroduced??

inland lagoon
inland lagoon
pearl chasm
#

they arent talking about adults tho?? they are talking about hatch lings being unable to fly really

delicate snow
viral walrus
#

doesnt matter

#

if it really were a problem

#

then people wouldnt make it to adult

pearl chasm
#

like ive played ptera non stop since the q/a release and yeah you sit for a good amount till ur near sub adult then you can really fly

#

its not a problem its a quality of life issue

#

hence why you can discuss quality of life things in Q and A

#

same with how i had a deino that didnt grow any percentage for the 2hrs i was on it, that kinda sucked XDD

viral walrus
#

ptera is the type of creature that rewards you for making it to the end

#

i imagine sauropods will be similar

delicate snow
#

Btw if the hunger bar was fixed to something that made more sense, you need to be able to fly

viral walrus
#

shitty early stage with an easy payoff

pearl chasm
#

how??? Ive gotten multiple adult pteras and its juts like idk i can see more map but nothing really chanegs

#

changes

inland lagoon
delicate snow
#

Thats not what they said lmao

pearl chasm
#

like you still cant really fight land stuff and ur an easy kill. Like im chill with being a glass dino but we need some payoff if ya wanna say well once ur adult its gucci

#

like hooray? its mroe like the austroraptor from legacy, your cute and make noises but do nothing in the grand scheme of things

#

*more

viral walrus
#

define doing anything in the grand scheme of things

pearl chasm
#

im saying if you look at the current roster they wer bottom rung

#

*are

golden coral
#

I'm not sure what you're asking for?

pearl chasm
#

even a hypsy can mess a ptera up

viral walrus
#

and?

pearl chasm
#

im not asking for anything im saying when he says at adult you get good is not correct

rapid charm
#

ptera isn't a fighter tho?

pearl chasm
#

i never said that XD

viral walrus
#

you do get good

pearl chasm
#

im asking what is the supposed good you get at adult

golden coral
#

You're basically a living spectator cam. That's it, that's the playstyle.

viral walrus
#

ptera adult is basically cheating

pearl chasm
#

so once again

#

your like a ehrra or austro

golden coral
#

If you do not enjoy that + fishing and avoiding being nommed by the deinos, then do not be a ptera.

pearl chasm
#

litterally nothing.....

golden coral
#

There'll be bigger, more powerful fliers eventually, if you absolutely need to fight. But I wouldn't expect even them to be too scary, because well, flight.

pearl chasm
#

im just saying that it could be better btu i dont see what they mean by its great at adult it doesnt feel any different

golden coral
#

You also can't compare with legacy sandbox dinos that aren't balanced anymore. :p

viral walrus
#

it seems that your point is that theres nothing to do when fully grown which is something that will get expanded upon in the future

pearl chasm
#

if you understand how to stam manage the only difference is higher stam bar

golden coral
#

But what do you want it to do?

delicate snow
#

Well you dont have much flight till your adult, main topic here is they need better stam regen cause you're grounded till sub ptera basically.

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Cause you cant fight things off

rapid charm
#

ptera adult is great wdym? honestly almost impossible to die as it

delicate snow
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you can only retreat

golden coral
#

You're a tiny ass little thing, you're about as powerful as a dryo, or perhaps should be slightly more damaging but less tanky, but that's it. You're a flying dryo sort of, make cute noises and be adorable,that's your life! :p

pearl chasm
#

I want more gameplay for the ptera as it sits now it is as said prior a glorified camera

viral walrus
#

why do you want to make ptera any easier?

frosty heron
#

I don't get why people wants to fight as pteras Lol

golden coral
#

Honestly, we all want more play quality for whatever we are. Not as if a grown stego is more fun, I can assure you :p

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When you're grown, you just.. live :p

pearl chasm
#

yeah but that emans theres legit 0 payoff

alpine plover
#

Why make it easier. A little competition and challenge is what makes it fun

pearl chasm
#

im asking for a reason to spend time growing said dino, it just feels silly for now to grow that long ( yes i know its the shorter grow dino) for nothing but to be a camera

golden coral
#

As of right now, perhaps there is little payoff, but there's not much payoff to be had honestly, it's a survival game, you survive. That's about it.

pearl chasm
#

im not asking for it to be easier

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legacy ahd alot of payoff

delicate snow
#

Okay but make it fun by being able to fly as a juvi and make it so we have to eat while juvi as a ptera

pearl chasm
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*had

viral walrus
#

things will be added it the future to make the game more fun

golden coral
#

We do need more survival things to do, and diets/perks/nesting will come.

delicate snow
#

Makes it more balanced having a balanced stam and food bar

golden coral
#

What did legacy really have as payoff, except nesting?

pearl chasm
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Exactly but for now we can discuss what it lacks

viral walrus
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thats not balanced

pearl chasm
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hence the feedback sections

viral walrus
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you want to make ptera untouchable

pearl chasm
#

legacy we all know was a deathmatch but it felt good to get big and wonder the map to find others or fight

delicate snow
#

Ptera will never be untouchable as they have to land to eat and drink

alpine plover
#

It's already a challenge to catch a ptera i find

delicate snow
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ive caught plenty

pearl chasm
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no ive seen deinos cathc a good 50% of pteras

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its not ahrd

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Hard

alpine plover
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Oh well maybe im a bad deino

rapid charm
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ptera is small af so it's super easy to hide, even if young ptera doesn't have alot of stam it's more than enough for flight if you really need to escape

pearl chasm
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when did i say make the ptera untouchable

delicate snow
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You cant hide very well if something decides to sniff, you have footprints.

frosty heron
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I wouldn't mind to die with a 1 hour grow Dino idk people cares that much, in a future with the perk/elder system your survival will be rewarded but now..

golden coral
frosty heron
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Yesterday I could grow 6 pteras in my playtime

golden coral
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On my stego travels, the only things I've found has been pteras, except that one river, where I promptly had a fatal error while keeping the deinos at bay.. :p

pearl chasm
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yet you still grew up and survived

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its still a survival game

rapid charm
pearl chasm
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im saying there felt more to be gained there

delicate snow
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Juvis literally have the toughest time

viral walrus
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as they should

delicate snow
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And what if you land incorrectly

alpine plover
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I find evrima to be more of survival than legacy. With legacy you spawn try to grow and then fight to your death

delicate snow
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You leave footprints

rapid charm
viral walrus
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then you deserve to die

pearl chasm
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ngl ive hit some nasty sky collision boxes that ahve yoinked my pteras from existence

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this has gone really off topic like XDDD it was about a quality of life issue and now peeps saying you deserve to die

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wowwww

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XD

frosty heron
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Legacy is camping a bush simulator

delicate snow
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love how this is a balance discussion server and suggestions get shut down immediately though

pearl chasm
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why would you camp when i played legacy i wondered the map as every dino, you sound like a pond sitting sucho XD

rapid charm
delicate snow
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Im saying Ptera isnt balanced. that is my opinion.

pearl chasm
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it was a joke

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to lighten the mood

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cause peeps be getting harsh lol

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im just saying quality of life is needed for a game to succeed

viral walrus
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harsh??

frosty heron
rapid charm
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ptera is balanced
super easy to hide
short growth
the best movement in the game
it's not meant to fight, it's a fisher/scavanger

alpine plover
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Ptera shouldn't be a strong animal

pearl chasm
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ya know coarse, rough, sand papery XDD

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straneg servers i played suchos had no protection so it was allways dumb to see em sitting as ducks

delicate snow
pearl chasm
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well no one asked for pteras to one shot a carno

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like the damage is trash and we know it XD

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it wasnt meant to fight but it feels dumb making a glorified camera

viral walrus
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i doesnt need any buffs whatsoever

pearl chasm
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not asking for any

rapid charm
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your chance to retreat is being able to fly, if you run out of stam and land in a bad position that's your fault

pearl chasm
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once again just give a reason for it

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is no one listening XD

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i never asked for a buff

rapid charm
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giving it more stamina is a buff tho?

pearl chasm
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if theres no reason for it why not just have it be AI?

frosty heron
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Most servers I played on add some sort of fisher dino rules, most of them were bullshit anyways thankfully on Evrima without any rules the fisher/semiaquatic gameplay its well implemented and fun

pearl chasm
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i never asked for stam

alpine plover
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I agree it's should be easier to manage stam

delicate snow
viral walrus
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nobody is replying to you demo

alpine plover
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Or have it be able to fly more rather than glide maybe

pearl chasm
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gilbert was

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hence my confusuon

rapid charm
#

also demo what exactly is your feedback?

viral walrus
delicate snow
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Im not saying its bad but it could be better

pearl chasm
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mine was litteraly just me asking what they see to be the reason behind the ptera and growing it. Like for real i love flying around im chill bout that but will there be a reason or will we just be like the herras and austros, able to nest but not do much. will they follow apexes way off in the future. very strange. More asking about quality of life for people playing ptera

golden coral
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People do seem to forget that both ptera and deino are very niche animals with very specific gameplay experiences. But it's fair to want more stuff to do when grown and all that, we do need something to live for after all, and not just go "Okay, I'm grown, now lets go fight stuff until I die".

pearl chasm
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exactly

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^^

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i feel theres something missing

rapid charm
delicate snow
pearl chasm
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i dont want a buff, i dont want to be able to fight the big stuff i just want a reason to be a ptera past flight

delicate snow
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so im not going to bother anymore im going to play the game.

rapid charm
viral walrus
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make sure to count how many pteras you see

delicate snow
pearl chasm
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????

delicate snow
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weather or not they do have stam or not

viral walrus
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the stupid ones for sure

pearl chasm
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Also heres a question anyone else notice that you cant eat pteras as a ptera ?? yesterday i tried eating a ptera corpse and it didnt even have the animation nor the filling the stomach

golden coral
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Nope, not even tried ptera out yet :p

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But I've heard something like that from others

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Seems to vary too, sometimes it works, other times not so much, not sure why

pearl chasm
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yeah seems very buggy XD

brazen current
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Why do people complain about Ptera stam? Even if you're just medium sized you can already basically fly as long as you want

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maybe we need the game to do a better job of explaining how to fly

desert wave
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@pearl chasm both me and my friend managed to kill dryos as adult pteras from the sky but it takes quite a lot of coordination

slim dragon
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Ptera's damage feels super low, but since they can fly and basically be untouchable any more would make them op

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I mean, I've bullied adult deinos as a juvie ptera and forced them to retreat into water

pearl chasm
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@desert wave yeah im talking like juvi and sub adults dont seem to be able to kill the ai at all.

desert wave
inland gust
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And yet, what to do with the eyes?

unknown.png
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i want big beautiful eyes

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where are my eyes

lament cloak
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ptera is really good rn, if anything a bit too good, even as a juvi as long as your not going up, holding shift, or holding w you can fly for quite the distance as even a juvi ptera

novel tulip
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Theres been discussion of giving deinos some sort of fracture but I'm not sure if I like it or not

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On one hand you cant just bully deinos to death because the fractures would build up and give you a broken leg

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But on the other hand if its ridiculous deino becomes op

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I think it would be fair if only deinos 80% and up give you some percentage of fracture, with adults dealing the most, and then if you get bit say 5 times on the leg or something your leg breaks and thats your prize for bullying adult deinos and not dodging their attacks

alpine plover
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@gray star

Your idea makes ptera overpowered, bad idea.

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I would be fine if quetz got something like that though

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but it makes 0 sense for ptera

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since it wasn't capable of using its beak as a real weapon, and it tried to "divebomb" something its fragile neck would break

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Ptera is fine at the moment, it dosn't need a buff or nerf

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If you want to fight things, pick something else instead of wanting to make ptera, the 90kg light weight, a juvie killer

hollow canyon
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Pteranodon to a large extent is too good if anything. It seems to be capable of landing hits on terrestrial animals without being at risk of getting hit back.

alpine plover
alpine plover
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It should be changed though

hollow canyon
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Atm it's probably not too big of an issue because it's just the third day of the open beta, however after this patch lands on the public branch you can be sure people are going to practice this at length on private servers and it will eventually allow them to take down terrestrial animals.

alpine plover
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Maybe a damage nerf to the flying peck?

hollow canyon
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When one Pteranodon attack my 50% grown Carnotaurus I could definitely feel its damage. If I stayed out in the open I'd eventually die.

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Perhaps? I don't see a reason why it should be allowed to attack things on the ground while flying at all tbh.

alpine plover
hollow canyon
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I mean nerfing it down to do a negligible amount of damage is a fine solution too.

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Just like you suggested

alpine plover
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Even the Dieno has similar interactions. It has the lunge and then is vulnerable on land while being able to hide in the water but it can kill stegos as well.
let the Ptera kill juvies, which would put pressure on the constant carno spam and give more things to worry about.

@gray star

With deino you have to go TO the deino to even give it a chance to kill you, and even then its pretty easy to tell if theres a deino in the water, with your idea ptera can just auto kill any fresh juvie because they dared to....... explore the map....... it would encourage juvies to not come out of hiding which is a issue the devs want to fix

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imagine getting punished for playing the game how the developers want you to

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And deino can't kill stegos at all currently

sacred zodiac
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@full ocean i thought they did. i saw my buddy get 1 shot by a stego as a utah

full ocean
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candid stirrup
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"I didn't get one shotted by a deino as a Utah" ?

sacred zodiac
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deino idk but stego 1 shots i think

full ocean
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candid stirrup
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sorry I was just trying to help

full ocean
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lament cloak
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it all depends on location, if the stego hits its utah head it dies, deino hits utahs head it dies (im pretty sure), if you hit its tail even stego takes multple hits to kill utah

full ocean
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sacred zodiac
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they dont need to 1 shot utah tho

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one hit would make the utah run off

lament cloak
sacred zodiac
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it should realistically

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but im saying it isnt absolutely necessary

sacred zodiac
lament cloak
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im. so. confused. your agreeing with me, and your disagreeing with me

sacred zodiac
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yes its realistic

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no it isnt game breaking

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you can easily run off some utahs by hitting one of them as a stego

lament cloak
sacred zodiac
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you're right

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but you can catch them while they are pouncing or running in

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and boom headshot

lament cloak
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im so confused? do you want utah to get oneshot by stego? or two hits

slim dragon
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Yeah, stego's thag should totally oneshot utahs to the body, because of balance. Utah will most of the time attack stegos in packs, if damage is too lenient the hurt one can just retreat and heal while the others continue murdering the stego, then come back

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Utahs should not be allowed a lot of room for error when hunting something 10x their weight

obtuse shuttle
#

Imagine getting pierced from side to side and not diying

lament cloak
sacred zodiac
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i dont care about if they get 1 shot or not

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im just saying if they dont get 1 shot its still easy to kill them

slim dragon
sacred zodiac
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a utah wont keep fighting after you skewer it

slim dragon
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If it doesn't keep fighting, then you can't kill it

lament cloak
obtuse shuttle
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They will, isle players arent animals, they wont stop unless dead, they dont have death fear

sacred zodiac
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believe me, at less than 25% health you wont keep trying to fight

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unless you are just dumb

obtuse shuttle
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I wont, most isle players arent like me tho

slim dragon
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Believe me, people continue fighting at 1% health

sacred zodiac
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yea if they think they did a lot of damage to their target

lament cloak
sacred zodiac
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if they dont even get many bites in and are all low they might just retreat to utah rock disappointed

slim dragon
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When I was playing ptera there were other pteras that literally suicide-bombed on a group of deinos to try to kill one juvie

obtuse shuttle
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The difference between 1 or 2 shotings seems small, but it means twice the hits, specially relevant against packs

slim dragon
#

Stego is made for killing its predators, not simply make them run away. If it can't reliably kill utahs, what is it gonna do against a rex ?

sacred zodiac
#

what can anything do against a rex

slim dragon
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Thagomize it

sacred zodiac
#

besides a damn trike

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if this game was realistic a lot of things would have been getting 1 shot

slim dragon
#

We're not talking about realism but purely about gameplay here

obtuse shuttle
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I once was un a allo 3 man pack, and the idiots of my pack were trying to kill a sub trike of a 10 trike herb, people prefer diying and maybe killing over surviving without getting the kill

sacred zodiac
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utahs wouldnt have a pack system because they were solitary, or at least there is no proof of it living in pakcs

lament cloak
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@bold ridge deinos bite is often mistaken for a devastating bite, while I agree deino should oneshot utah to the body, deino should not have higher raw damage than other large carnivores, as that would allow land deinos, and deinos teeth are meant to grap and hold prey, not to deal devastating wounds

slim dragon
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Land deinos won't happen because they get bullied by pteras and utahs

sacred zodiac
#

you guys act like stego doesnt have a huge amount of health

bold ridge
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land deino will not happen as deino moves at 1 mile per year on land

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not to mention how clumsy it is

sacred zodiac
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doesnt matter if they dont get the kill after the hit thats one more of the pack that may not attack again

slim dragon
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1 mile per second seems a lot

bold ridge
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idk why i said second

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i meant year

obtuse shuttle
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Supersonic speed

bold ridge
#

brain

slim dragon
#

That's less a lot

sacred zodiac
#

thats faster than a bullet im sure

bold ridge
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brain not work ok

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anyways you get my point

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deino does not work on land

slim dragon
#

But now I want deinos running so fast they zoom around the map and crash into the first obstacle xD

sacred zodiac
bold ridge
#

nyooom