#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages ¡ Page 226 of 1

grave veldt
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^

alpine plover
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Dude, shut the fuck up honestly. Instead of downplaying my argument why dont you actually aport something to the discussion.

obtuse shuttle
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Sorry

grave veldt
lean shoal
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imagine if rex could one shot stego and could take 8 hits to the head and grew faster and ran faster. that is utah pounce.

obtuse shuttle
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I have been arguing the same argument years

lean shoal
alpine plover
obtuse shuttle
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And even after even devs said this is not a fighting Game you Guy keep saying the same

grave veldt
alpine plover
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They should. You are equating the life on an animal as a statistic. Its not.

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THAT in itself is the essence of a fighting game.

grave veldt
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yea i dont wanna argue with u anymore becuz ur never gonna listen

alpine plover
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Its a hypocritical thing to say

ebon kraken
sonic flame
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Zote has a point tho

obtuse shuttle
grave veldt
alpine plover
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bro 🦍

sonic flame
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An organized pack won’t be making mistakes like running into a stego to get stabbed

obtuse shuttle
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Organized =/= perfect

grave veldt
obtuse shuttle
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Mistakes can and Will happen

sonic flame
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Counterpoint a good stego won’t be making mistakes and leaving any openings

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Yeah pounce is wacky

grave veldt
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can we all agree that pounce should be looked at to be more skillful

grave veldt
obtuse shuttle
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Space bar and right click goes brrr

alpine plover
grave veldt
sonic flame
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Honestly I wish the stego buck killed Utahs

grave veldt
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it just flops over and kills them

ebon kraken
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Stegos buck flops like it’s walllow animation

obtuse shuttle
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The skill difference the utahs needs should be higher anyway

sonic flame
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Pounce atm takes little skill to execute

grave veldt
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

alpine plover
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Okay, and Im still saying that its fine the way it is. I think there is counterplay to it, I think its not at all ''low risk'', and I think that its fair that a swarm of Utahs are able to kill something they ambush.

grave veldt
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its super low risk

obtuse shuttle
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It is not Risk at all

grave veldt
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barley even have to try n pounce

obtuse shuttle
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You are t diying, and even if you did you are losing only 1 hour of grow compared to the 5 hours of stego

sonic flame
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Right click > you miss > no endlag > Right click

grave veldt
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^

hollow canyon
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Currently the only risk to using the pounce is that you risk bugging out and getting stuck in the air - that's the risk to using this skill.

sonic flame
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That’s not a risk of pounce, that’s a bug

grave veldt
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like stego misses one tail swipe and boom like half its hp or more can be gone for that if their facing a utah pack

sonic flame
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Bugs get patched, pounce needs real risk

alpine plover
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it is a risk of pounce, because it is a bug

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currently

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I think the risk of pounce is just the fact that Utah is so fragile.

grave veldt
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pounce needs a fundamental change or rework

hollow canyon
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Precisely my point, if that's the only risk to using that skill it's not very risky at all.

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Fundamental is a bit of an overstatement tbh

grave veldt
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Being strong or fragile doesnt make pounce any riskier

obtuse shuttle
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Maybe because Utah is on 2 tiers under stego

grave veldt
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it needs to be changed

ebon kraken
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You should have to aim for certain areas on the body and if you miss you should be punished

grave veldt
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^^

alpine plover
obtuse shuttle
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If tiers dont exist give me 1 hour grow stego

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If not this is bullshit

alpine plover
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It is a bit silly that you can pounce a Stegos head or behind and poof you are on teh side

ebon kraken
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^

alpine plover
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it's in early development

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So yea, I guess thats one change that could happen

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of course they aren't gonna have extremely detailed systems atm

grave veldt
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Pounce dps needs to be changed or if it stays it needs to be actually risky

alpine plover
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Well you convinced me of one change

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Im still gonna think it doesnt need anymore rework unless future experiences convince me otherwise

sonic flame
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Tiers will always exist as long as stats and move sets differ

alpine plover
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Im gonna go now, it was a good discussion but please next time do not undermine the argument of another, thats now how you argue

grave veldt
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i mean most of the community agrees on pounce needing changed so it'll get changed eventually whether u like it or not so

sonic flame
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But balance based on tier is dumb IMO

obtuse shuttle
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I Will undermine a argument that is objetively wrong according to the main dev

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But hey

sonic flame
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Balance based on what it is as an animal, I.e. Stego is 6 tons of bad attitude

frosty heron
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I predict a lot of whining when the Tyrannosaurus comes out, that's for sure

alpine plover
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Oh yeah

golden coral
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Late to the party, but two things strike me as odd when it comes to stego. 1, that it should not have it's tail pointed towards the threat/at least sideways more or less, it's the main weapon, it's the one end you do not want to be near at all. It's like if a trike should not want to have it's head pointed at the threat. 2, that bucking is not the main defense mechanic against a pounce, since it's specifically there for it, and that using trees/rock (water goes bye bye with deino), should be the main way to get someone off, instead of an added advantage to counter numbers.

Pounce need a rework so there's actually some sort of back and forth between the attacker and the defender, and that the immediate impact is removed, otherwise a utah can just jump on/off, and still deal decent damage just fine (also works as a way to negate using rocks or trees), which just seems like it's not how a pounce should work. It should also take more than a full "set" to kill something, especially if the something bucks, since otherwise there's very little risk with "going in" for the pounce, at least with how it works right now.

frosty heron
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Pounce right now does about 35% to 40% hp drain to a Stego is this one doesn't buck and Utah has all the Stamina (and jumps off with a tiny bit left to run away) tested my myself, it's a lot of damage but as I said I'm not counting the bucking

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You actually need 3 Utahs pouncing the Stego to actually make it a danger, balance it torwards that because I don't want useless Utahs neither

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Pounce might need a rework and get nerfed, but right now it's buggy enought to make it a "Risk"

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Not because the mechanic itself but the bugs

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Not long ago I died to a Stego by pouncing it and I clipped thru its entire body, boom got impaled. That day I thought everything except pounce being OP, then I noticed it doesn't work on laggy servers with Desync issues

crystal wharf
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balancing off bugs and desync isnt good game design

golden coral
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True, but we should talk about and focus on how a mechanic should work when the game works properly. We can still consider ideas on how to make pounce interesting and all, even if it's not to be implemented right now.

rapid bison
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Damn i expected all the emotes to be put by one specific person but no it's multiple people leaving the reactions

tender hatch
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@grave veldt personally I want stego to jab AND swing
Swing would cover a larger radius and do more damage, but would cost more stamina than a jab.

golden coral
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I don't really see why you'd jab as a stego or anky really

alpine plover
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whats going to be deinos weakness?

golden coral
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Other deinos? :p

orchid depot
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because there are currently no other semi-aquatics that can challenge deino, it's pretty much always safe as long as it stays near/in the water

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an adult deino, anyway
a juvi may have some complications

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and yeah other deinos would be a threat, but i'm pretty sure they are going to discourage cannibalism with the diets update

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excluding cerato, cerato can eat pretty much anything that's made out of meat regardless of how bad it is

sinful cove
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Personally i hope gators arent punished for cannibalism because they do that shit all the time irl

orchid depot
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yeah that's true
deino needs competition, it's pretty much invincible in the water so i wouldn't mind cannibalism

grave veldt
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I mean idc if they keep the jab but I think a swing is much more effective

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If they give stego a swing and a jab then anky should get something similar

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Deino will only be invincible in the water just cuz nothing else is semi aquatic so

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Once more semi aquatics come in it’ll get more balanced

alpine plover
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I hope sucho would basically be anti-deino, im not saying it should be beat the adult version but it should body its sub and juvie forms, because its faster and way stronger.

Its preferred food should be deino.

If we dont have something keeping the deino population somewhat small like other apexes they’ll get OP.

grave veldt
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Spino should be able to body it relatively easy when it’s on sun stage

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Sub*

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Even as an adult spino would most likely win

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Anyways it’s best to wait till other semi aquatics are added before making any decisions

orchid depot
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suchos could keep the sub/juvi deino population in check

lean shoal
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that was originally suchos role along with being a real fisher but it was taken out because sucho was deemed "too strong" for the current roster. because its not water locked like deino and is a predator.

grave veldt
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i mean ig but there is stego so and also sucho wouldn't excatly be very fast

alpine plover
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Those mechanics already exist for a Stego tail swipe

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Where you aim the camera will dictate how fast the jab is

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When you aim directly to your side, the speed and cooldown of the attack pretty much emulates a tail swipe already

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The tail swipes in Legacy covered far too much range
Making Stego almost invincible to approach for small to mid predators

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Stego is still fairly considerably powerful
You have to aim and be patient with your attacks

lean shoal
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its powerful until you get swarmed by a pack of utahs or get your hitbox abused.

alpine plover
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The tail hitbox seems unintended atm
Though you should lose to Utah's if they garner that much numbers against you

lean shoal
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4 utahs should not 100-0 a stego

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if you get 4 on you you are dead if you arent already in water.

alpine plover
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You should
A: Use trees and foliage to break up their swarming. Dense forests limit their mobility
B: Head to water shallow enough for you to walk and where they have to swim. It puts their aggression to a halting stop
C: Patiently use your attacks. Good timing can easily snipe Utah's consecutively
Pounce is op atm, but its getting a rework or fix. Though bucking is still available to use
Incorporate a few bite to discourage them from crowding your face as well

lean shoal
alpine plover
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Well

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Yeah

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Thats why it getting tweaked

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Even then, strats should play a part in how to dissuade certain match ups

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It is hard to keep all 4 of them

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But they're still all players coordinating to take you down when you have one shot capabilities compared to them

lean shoal
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it dosent matter if you can 1 shot them if you have almost no chance of hitting them.

alpine plover
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You can hit them

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It's not impossible, it takes aiming and timing
Use your camera to aim than just spamming right click

lean shoal
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stego is fine against 1-2 utahs but when theres 3 its really tough and 4 is pretty much instant death. if one lands a pounce on you the others are going to try and if you miss you die.

alpine plover
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I think that's rather a case of panicking
You can shrug off 1-2 pounces

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What the Utah's currently want you to do, is make you attack when they're not even in range
They have to bait out and attack for an opening

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If they're landing attacks before you're even striking, then it's on your end

lean shoal
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its pretty easy to do that when theres a large pack and you cant keep your tail to all of them.

alpine plover
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Ofc

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That's why those strats exist to stop them from effectively swarming around you

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It makes it easier on your end to hit your tail jabs

lean shoal
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stego needs a better aoe attack soon and utahs pounce needs to be gutted.

alpine plover
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The Stego aoe would be overdoing it

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It's already pretty difficult to take one on when fighting it properly without relying on pounce or the tailbox issue

lean shoal
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stego is probably getting an aoe attack anyway when we get larger predators.

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the issue with stego is its way too easy to kill for a 5 hour grow. its legacy balance of a single utah being able to kill a rex.

alpine plover
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Which is why pounce and the tailbox issue are getting fixed

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Without those crutches, stego fights are going to play out more as intended

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They're difficult, and adding more to the stego other than an hp buff would be an overkill solution
to a problem that has disappeared

lean shoal
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pretty sure they still have a larger aoe sweep attack planned for the future for stego just the jab is what it has right now. doubt we will see the sweep until some mid tiers or apexes are in.

alpine plover
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Maybe so, but as a balancing act. If they do add a such large aoe attack
It should consume 10-20% of stam
That much range and power together needs to have drawbacks

lean shoal
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i think the aoe should be lower damage but be better against smaller or multiple enemies with the jab doing more damage but being a higher risk move.

alpine plover
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That could work too
Though it's best if we don't have a recreation of Legacy Stego
Pack hunters like Utah should still be able to hunt Stego's if they work together

lean shoal
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id say the things that should be hunting stego are a pack of allos and the apexes.

alpine plover
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should but not exclusively

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Stegos can graze and mix herd

lean shoal
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mix herding will be mostly dead with diets.

alpine plover
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Giving them a large significant advantage compare to their carnivore counterparts

obtuse shuttle
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Is this another "herbis must be weaker because they eat plants" comment?

alpine plover
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nope

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Im just saying legacy stego should be avoided

obtuse shuttle
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"stegos can graze"

lean shoal
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stego cant run so it should be able to fight. stego should do insane damage.

alpine plover
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Stegos do tho

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They one shot Utahs
and eat carnos for breakfast even in squads

lean shoal
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legacy stego was death for mid tiers that attacked you but had no chance against apexes.

obtuse shuttle
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Stegos do but is not something that should be taken into account when balancing an animal

lean shoal
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stego should hold its own against apexes and only have a hard time if ambushed or if theres multiple. best way to counter stego will be an ambush to a face bite or a pack to distract it.

alpine plover
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The balance is tricky

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Because it's supposedly going to be an Allosaurs counterpart

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Yet has to be able to fend off Apexes

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Theres a gap there, since it also cannot run from an Apex

gaunt jackal
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Well an allo pack is very strong and stegos weaknes is that it cant turn very well

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Atleast in one place

crystal wharf
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@worthy fossil bleed is dangerous, it affects regeneration and stamina, instead of being a dps battle its now something used for persistant hunters to gain and edge on larger prey

worthy fossil
crystal wharf
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what dino are you playing

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it really shows on things like tenonto how much it affects you, utah and carno both have extremely fast stam and health regen so it doesnt show well

worthy fossil
# crystal wharf what dino are you playing

theres only 2 carnivores in the game, ive noticed carnos needing massive packs to take on stegos due to how risky it is to go in for a bite and how many bites it takes to kill a stego. Carnos arent 1 shot unless headshot when 90% health or higher so Carnos just trade bites and such on a stego until its dead

crystal wharf
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that doesnt answer my question

worthy fossil
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i played carno

crystal wharf
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thats the problem

worthy fossil
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I suppose the dps thing isnt a issue

crystal wharf
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carno isnt a bleeder

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at all

worthy fossil
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ah

crystal wharf
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and it has fast regens

hollow canyon
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I haven't had much of an issue with bleed as Tenonto either - typically I either won a fight or died on the spot.

worthy fossil
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i thought it would be

hollow canyon
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Bleed is somwhere between doing very little and doing nothing as it is. It was far more potent back when update 2 released but got nerfed hard aftewards.

worthy fossil
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i take back what I said as Carno isnt much of a bleeder, i thought it was atleast a bit of a bleeder

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ill wait until bleeders are added

hollow canyon
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I don't know if there's even any difference between how much bleed each attack applies. In my experience they all seem to do about as much and I don't notice any specific animal doing more bleed than the others. This however is an issue with the game development overall - the way the game works is just completely unclear.

worthy fossil
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thinking again bleed does help alot at stopping prey from healing, i was in a massive carno pack the other day and took down 3 full grown stegos just trading bites and keeping it bleeding by biting it on the tip of its tail. carno has more potential against stegos than i thought

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yeah idk what the difference is between a utahs and carnos bleed if there is one at all, idk which lasts longer or drains faster

hollow canyon
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I think Carno does more bleed but honestly it's not like I notice it in either case. The fights are over long, long before bleed starts doing anything.

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Aside from Stego-hunting that's pretty much the only use of bleed right now.

worthy fossil
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stego does need a tail swipe or predators need to take a small amount of damage when biting a stego's thagomizers though. a stego cant hit a carno when it bites the tip of its tail because by the time its jab reaches the carno is backed away

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you can bite the tip of a stego's tail then turn your body to avoid its reach or back away. not very fair

hollow canyon
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Yea you can do that but it takes the Stego to start swinging at something before you attack its tail.

worthy fossil
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yeah

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well no

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you can bite its tail while its not swinging and have no issues

hollow canyon
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It can hit you in that case if it swings as you enter the area of its tail

worthy fossil
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ive done it plenty, stego has never hit me while doing it because its jab is inaccurate and slow

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you have to be behind the stego to do it

hollow canyon
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Yea I've done it too but depending on the server I could sometimes hit the Stego from outside of its range and sometimes I couldn't

worthy fossil
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you can chomp on its thagomizers and turn your body to make more distance between yourself and the stego or run back, no matter how fast the stego reacts after the bite its jab wont hit

hollow canyon
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The hitbox for the tail overall seems to be really wonky

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I've sometimes hit it while biting the air and at other times the bites seemingly didn't connect while I bit the tail itself

worthy fossil
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i wasnt abusing the hitbox, abusing the broken hitbox is hard to do because the stego will almost always turn its tail away after swinging. youd have to stay behind its tail to abuse it

hollow canyon
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Hmm... I might test it out a bit more later. I haven't been playing Evrima much last couple of days.

worthy fossil
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if youre willing to friend me so i can video share i only have one recording of me doing it but it was when biting its thagomizers was the final blow so you wouldnt see how it couldnt reach me afterwards

hollow canyon
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Dw. I've seen it done and I've done it at times myself. It just didn't seem very consistent in my experience.

worthy fossil
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ahh

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it works all the time with no risks if its tail is right infront of you

hollow canyon
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Overall I agree that while you're behind the Stego, meaning that your face is close to its tail and your body follows the body of the Stego but I still found the hitboxes working in quite a wonky way. They seemed quite consistent on the officials though.

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On other servers it was a bit different but it could've been caused by me lagging or something.

worthy fossil
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im sending a short clip

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His body fucking folded

hollow canyon
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that seems to be an issue with the hitboxes tbh, I don't think that bite should've landed.

worthy fossil
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that was clearly right on the thagomizers

hollow canyon
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Was it? Seemed like your head was a bit too far from it. I don't think he would've even hit you if he took a swing there, although I'm not super sure.

worthy fossil
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i can screenshot the frame the bite began

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i was aligned with its thagomizers

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youd have to rewatch and maybe watch it bit by bit if you still doubt it

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though the delay of the server processing the bite was wonky

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still doubt it?

grave veldt
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It still doesn’t make it right tho

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Stego should have passive dmg on tail kind of like how they showed it on trike when a Utah pounce it’s horns

hollow canyon
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It might be the camera that's right behind the dino with Carno covering what's happening in front of it that leads me astray. Then again - you were quite close to it already and given the fact that you took a step forward it may have landed there.

worthy fossil
grave veldt
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Whomst has summoned me

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Oh yea passive dmg on tail should be a thing

sinful cove
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Small amount of damage for willingly slamming a massive bone spike in your mouth? Nah that shit should be punishing af

slim dragon
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Well, there are teeth between your flesh and the spikes
And realistically, an animal that bites something that is literally piercing its jaw wouldn't put too much force in it. Plus, the thagomizers don't have the speed to penetrate the target

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But I agree that it should deal a reasonable amount of damage

sinful cove
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Also a carno just biting the spike shouldn't even do shit, it isn't a crusher and it's supposed to hunt animals smaller than itself lmao. What's he doing rn killing stegos by biting their tail spikes that's just wack he has no business doin that

slim dragon
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Well there's that too. In my opinion biting a thag shouldn't deal a lot of damage to the attacker, but deal almost nothing to the stego

sinful cove
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Guess we can just disagree on that. Because I think attacking the one part you should be avoiding the most on an animal that has no option to run away should definitely be a decision to regret and not a little slap on the wrist.

slim dragon
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You'd still deal less damage than you take

sinful cove
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Point is a retarded decision like ‘bite big spike’ should be punished justly for how stupid it is to try, sheer stupidity should earn you a darwin award not a friendly warning

hollow canyon
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Well it depends as long as you clamp your jaws around the spike and not onto the spike you wouldn't really get hurt.

slim dragon
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But you can allow people to make errors. If a new player bites a thagomizer and takes some damage, they'll be like "ok that was stupid. I won't do it again." If they bite a thagomizer and fucking die, they'll think "what the hell just happened ? Did I die by attacking my opponent ?"

sinful cove
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Large amount of damage =/= insta death lol

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Its just common sense not to bite something spiky, new to the game or not

slim dragon
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Then what amount of damage compared to a regular thagomizer strike are you thinking of ?

hollow canyon
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I just think that it should do really negligible damage in general. You're not biting a vital part of the Stego and this is something that's rather risky to do. It just deals way too much damage for whatever reason. Killing a Stego with around 10 bites onto the tail is quite weird.

golden coral
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Could just let it be your biteforce, raw damage inflicted right back on you. I doubt there's anything that wouldn't be able to take their own biteforce a few times, and that's without any multipliers.

sinful cove
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Yeah wtf are you doing making it bleed to death through its bone spike?

hollow canyon
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That's the thing - this isn't even so much done to bleed the Stego, you can outright KILL it with raw damage.

sinful cove
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And yeah reflected damage equal to hitting yourself in the face with your own attack works

hollow canyon
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You need around 10 bites and Stego keels over.

sinful cove
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A sort of ‘no u’ from the stego

slim dragon
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Yeah if biting a stego's thag does as much damage to you as your biteforce, then yes, seems fair

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And the stego takes like 5 or 10% of the normal damage

sinful cove
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Also being bit on your spike or horn has no business inflicting you with bleed unless perhaps it was dealt by a crusher

hollow canyon
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As it is Stego appears to receive over 100% of normal damage when bitten on its tail.

sinful cove
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So much for locational damage lol tho im sure its still a heavy WIP

hollow canyon
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I think this is the main problem with this strategy right now.

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Yea locational just... works in mysterious ways. This stuff really shouldn't be under NDA. It's borderline impossible to speak about the balance of a game without knowing how it works in the first place.

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As it is - it seems to me that Stego either has around 3500 health or its tail has a multiplier higher than 1.0.

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Either way it shouldn't have been released like this as it's pretty stupid no matter how you look at it.

frosty heron
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I got hit by a Stego in the face today as Carno and it left me at 5% HP from full HP so idk how exactly locational damage works but I never got hit that hard before.

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It almost 1 shooted me

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I know there's Head / Body / Tail spots to hit

hollow canyon
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Yes, that's what happen when it hits the head. You lose out the vast majority of your health and most of the time - if you have any locked health it's going to get you killed.

frosty heron
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But I belive I got hit by full Stegos before on the head leaving me at 20%, not 5%

hollow canyon
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Must've triggered on the body and not the head itself.

frosty heron
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Perhaps

hollow canyon
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To my knowledge the headshot almost takes you out

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Like you live just barely assuming you were at full health before you got hit

frosty heron
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Yeah got out of the fight for a good bunch of time

hollow canyon
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if you were hurt you pretty much always die

sinful cove
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I think the head is the only spit really covered by locational now because it def seems to take more damage but being hit on the tail is still body damage

hollow canyon
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Not necessarily, it's just that tail has weird multipliers and not all of the animals have separate multipliers for it. E.g. Utah takes barely any damage on the tail.

frosty heron
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Not really if Stegos hits my tail they do like 50% dmg to Carnos

hollow canyon
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I think so is the case for Tenonto

frosty heron
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Tested multiple times

sinful cove
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Well damn i guess stego's more more problems than just his hitbox being abused lol

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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Against Carnos, yea. In general Utahs are more of an issue for the Stegos.

frosty heron
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We killed one today without that tail bug shit and it was a damn boss fight, took us perfect teamwork and coordinating in baits

sinful cove
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Until larger preds come out at least, but im sure(hoping) his stats are adjusted when that time comes

frosty heron
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And of course all 3 of us got hit at least once

fallow kernel
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the delay on the bite sucks bad on dryo and is also a problem with the utah but less bad of a delay. these times should be reduced to a small delay or none at all when clicking to bite with a primary attack.

terse blade
#

It feels like there is a delay in general for all dinos attacks. I've even noticed it on tentos when I try and kick or tail slam the attack happens well after I had clicked so it often leads to miss's. Its almost like you have to predict before hand rather than react to the then and now. Like if a carno is charging me to bite, and I try and kick just as hes coming up, the kick ends up happening after hes already past me... same with all the dinos.

fallow kernel
#

i understand the other attacks like a teno cc or a tail slam or kick that you have to to time because it’s a special ability to stun and costs stam. meanwhile the bite for carno, stego, and teno are close to no delay and bite much quicker than the weaker utah.

cerulean ruin
#

Do you guys think that the update 4 will take longer/the same/smaller amount of time? Any opinions are welcome

alpine plover
cerulean ruin
alpine plover
#

hard to tell, all of them are adding fairly complex mechanics in, i believe that 8 will take the shortest time and 4/5 will take the longest

ruby merlin
#

@ember ivy or you can just hold e and buck them and make them waste their stam :/

crystal wharf
#

bucking doesnt work on any utah with a third of a braincell

ruby merlin
#

well that's not really the games fault because that just means the player is smart enough to learn that if they don't get off their fucked

crystal wharf
#

honestly what we need is something like what was shown with trike a while back, where, if you pounce the main attacking areas of something its going to knock you down, and if they time an attack right they will instantly murder you

ruby merlin
#

but utahs don't pounce on the tail of stegos anyways :/

crystal wharf
#

oh they do

#

because it sockets them onto the side

ruby merlin
#

Yeah but just a utah poucing on the side of the ail where the spikes aren't at shouldn't just knock you off

crystal wharf
#

never said it should

ruby merlin
#

i was more of going off the guys feedback example

golden coral
#

What we need is a "windup" for the utah pounce if nothing else, so the pounce itself/latch on does no damage, and the utah ramps up damage the longer it keeps attacking while on, thereby making bucking valid to get them off, minimizing their damage, or if they want to get up to the real damage, they risk running out of stamina entirely and fall off. That combined with primary bleed for the pounce attack, and it'll be much more of a drawn out fight, with repeated pouncing while the prey runs out of stamina until it can no longer buck at all.

grave veldt
#

there rly should be no pounce zones

#

the fact a carno has to dodge the pounce is weird

#

it should be the other way around

#

like the video in balance feedback shows how a utah can just pounce a stego tail and end up on the side

cerulean ruin
obtuse shuttle
#

@warm mesa while i agree with your feedback, It feels like is more an attack on Utah mains rather than a feedback, you are just flamebaiting even if what you are saying Its true

sinful cove
#

Just like real life? Both males and females incubate the eggs irl for many species, and both males and females take part in crafting thd nest in many species as well

dense hamlet
#

As a Utah main, i agree that pounce shouldn't have the teleport on the side and that a couple things should be changed, BUT i do think they should bring back the old acceleration and maybe buff the attack speed on their normal attack, having slower attack speed than a Carno is not something i would expect from a Utah, but that is just my opinion

marble imp
alpine plover
#

Yeah but not all birds have the males incubating

#

For example, in passerines or birds of prey (like hawks), it is typical for the female to incubate

#

And most fowl have females incubating as well, mainly because the males play little if any part in rearing up offspring.

#

So which gender incubates should be either based on player choice or the species

#

And it's likely some animals don't have any need to incubate whatsoever (like Allosaurs or Crocodilians, which happen to build nest mounds reliant on rotting vegetation to produce warmth)

#

And I'd also make the assumption that Ceratosaurians make nest mounds, too, since they're more basal than Allosauroids. So this means Ceratosaurus and Carnotaurus build these organic incubators.

marble imp
#

Doesn’t matter which gender does which I still think we need a system similar to this to stop females from just making a nest and sitting on it for protection in servers like New Beginnings who have rules against killing nesting females.

#

@wispy valley your idea is so much better than mine wow

#

I gives u respect

#

Maybe the quality of the nest depends on how much nutrition the male had in their life time

#

Or depends on if you pick that route

#

And maybe if you hatch young they can start off with a perk like being able to climb trees or swim well until they hit sub/adult

#

I can just imagine a tiny Utah being able to dive for food. Though it comes with deino risk lmao

grave veldt
#

@ember ivy i just wanna point out that I understand your suggestion, but it’s best to wait till update 3 and test pounce ourselves before saying anything. Im happy they even bothered to listen to making pounce more tailored to bleed

eager otter
#

Yeah, unless this guy's a QA tester, he's talking pure conjecture

#

The majority of us don't know how its gonna play out until its in our hands

#

So saying that combat is ruined before we even know what the exact changes are is just fearmongering IMO

grave veldt
#

Yes I don’t wanna make any early judgement calls

#

If it is like ruining combat when we get it then yes but we haven’t tested anything for ourselves so it’s best to wait

frosty heron
#

We haven't seen how it works yet and people already wants to rework it, damn people hates Utahs a lot

vernal sentinel
#

raw pounce damage-bad, nerfed pounce is also bad, honestly leave utah alone, pounce is it's main way of dealing with bigger creatures and it should be a strong ability

grave veldt
#

No as it was now pounce needed a change

#

If u left it as it was it would be broken

#

There’s a difference between a strong ability and something that’s too strong

vernal sentinel
#

that's not my point, Im just tired of people constantly crying about utah, pounce needed a change and it sounds like it will be a decent change but then you have a post like the latest one from #balance-feedback

grave veldt
ember ivy
ember ivy
eager otter
#

Current Utahs shred stegos in under a minute precisely because they have chainsaws for feet so much raw damage on pounce

#

Bleed spreads that damage out over time

vernal sentinel
#

not really, bucking will be buffed

#

you're just assuming rn

eager otter
#

Gives the stego opportunity to fight back instead of getting instagibbed

ember ivy
ember ivy
eager otter
#

But we don't know how much bleed pounce will do until we can play it ourselves

#

So maybe you're right

#

But maybe not

#

For all we know it will take ten minutes to stack full bleed with a pack of utahs

#

It all comes down to whatever values the devs give pounce

grave veldt
#

Remember that bleed doesn’t directly tie to ur hp and it won’t kill u directly

grave veldt
#

Unless this was changed

#

Then someone correct me

tender hatch
#

Bleed pounce is going to be SO much better than pounce doing a ridiculous amount of damage

#

4 utahs are enough to kill a full stego when they pounce

#

Bleeding will make that harder to do so (in my eyes)

#

And also, everything you've mentioned are just problems with the pounce in general, not the bleed pounce

hollow canyon
#

Not sure how it's going to be all that much better - Stego will have to wallow in mud to clot the bleed in this case - do you believe it will be able to do that with Utahs all around it?

slim dragon
#

Wallowing in mud is getting less important for bleed

hollow canyon
#

I mean - implying it was of any importance so far.

slim dragon
#

And stego is supposed to go wallow in mud only once all the utahs are dead, that's how fighting works

hollow canyon
#

Going by all that I'd say it's most likely going to be just as dead when facing a Utah pack. It will be dying a bit longer and in a different manner but I don't see how that fixes Stego's problems

slim dragon
#

If it takes longer to die, it still gives stego are better chance to fend off the utahs

#

And remember that bleed, even improved, is going to be nowhere as lethal as in legacy

hollow canyon
#

If it already has the bleed on it then why would the Utahs bother walking up to it to get hit?

#

Right, how much do you think "nowhere as lethal as in legacy" would be exactly? Especially with Utah's pounce being more bleed oriented now and bleed overall getting a buff.

tender hatch
slim dragon
#

Well since both your blood pool and stamina have to deplete for you to take damage, that's still a lot less dangerous than losing all you health in a few minutes as in legacy

tender hatch
#

All I'm saying is, it'll be way more balanced than pounce causing outright a ridiculous amount of damage

hollow canyon
#

No, it doesn't work like that - the blood pool has to deplete for you to die - fullstop.

#

There's no stamina depletion and no damage taking, you just die.

slim dragon
#

Besides, if stego took enough bleed for it to be lethal, then the utahs have won.

hollow canyon
#

@tender hatch Agreed there, anything is likely more balanced than the current Stego vs Utah match up.

slim dragon
#

But it'll still be hardr than just shredding it with pure damage

hollow canyon
#

Hardly so, it will most likely just take a bit longer to pull off but the Stego is going to be dying all the same.

slim dragon
#

You can only assume for now

hollow canyon
#

Have you played Evrima in the initial stage(of update 2) when bleed was more powerful than it is now?

tender hatch
#

Oh god

#

Remember that but in QA when it wouldn't run out lol

hollow canyon
#

Yea but tbh I haven't even died to it on the QA branch.

#

The bleed just used up blood way too slowly and it didn't matter even without healing it.

slim dragon
#

Yes I did, but I didn't get to experience it well since I mostly got insta-killed by carnos at the time

hollow canyon
#

I did get to experience it back then and while it was different to the legacy branch bleed it was still quite powerful and Stego would have little to no chance against a competent Utah pack if that bleed was a thing.

#

Matter of fact I saw and have bled Stegos out myself during this update with the terrible bleed we have atm.

#

I just don't see this as a solution to Stegos problems.

slim dragon
#

we'll see

hollow canyon
#

Will it be better now? Kind of... but not really if those are the only things that get changed.

#

Then again bucking is also getting a buff so that might be a lifesaver

slim dragon
#

They've gotta rework their socketing mechanic at some point

hollow canyon
#

That too, idk what happened with it but it worked much better until ~update 1 I think?

slim dragon
#

Maybe it's just a bug they haven't got time to fix yet

hollow canyon
#

perhaps

frosty heron
tender hatch
#

I just want pounce to latch on only if you directly hit the area

Not hit the head and then hey I magically teleported to this guys side

hollow canyon
#

@frosty heron I think you misunderstood. I compared the bleed in the initial stage of update 2 to the legacy bleed.

frosty heron
#

Oh alright

#

Anyways, right now on Evrima I rarely see Stegos dying to Utahs, think I see Carnos hunting them more oftenly, pounce kills need 3 Utahs in coordination to kill the Stego and pounce at once

#

That doesn't happen much

hollow canyon
#

I've seen far more Uthas killing Stegos than I've seen Carnos. Admittedly Carnos killing Stegos became more common after finding out that issue with the hitboxes but Utahs still do it more easily.

#

Well it's technically 4 Utahs, preferably 5. If 4 Utahs pounce a Stego and they have an additional Utah with them then the Stego is dead no matter what it does.

frosty heron
#

Also I gotta say most Stegos that die to uncoordinated Utah pounces are terrible players, I'm sorry but judging what I've watched most just spam tail swing with terrible timing

hollow canyon
#

Killing a Stego isn't very hard whether it coordinates its tail swing or not. The moment it dares to attack in any direction the other side of it gets pounced by Utahs that have at least one working hemisphere working.

frosty heron
#

I'm not saying pounce doesn't need a nerf but many people complaining about it should at least learn how to play their Dino properly

tender hatch
#

I've killed good stegos when I was in a Utah pack mate

Its ridiculous

hollow canyon
#

It does need a nerf, I just don't think this is the nerf that it needed.

tender hatch
#

This is a rebalance I'd say

#

Not necessarily a nerf but not necessarily a buff either

hollow canyon
#

It really depends on how bleed ramps up during the pounce.

frosty heron
#

The day I'll play Stego and test by myself I'll judge

hollow canyon
#

The issue with Evrima in general is that bleed works there in the most cryptic ways.

frosty heron
#

Utahs doesn't need to be useless neither on my opinion, skilled players should be able to take bigger prey on packs

#

Otherwise Utah gameplay will turn into boring easy prey hunting

#

Or rather AI hunting lol

hollow canyon
#

It doesn't need to be useless, it needs to have its ability work in a way that will force it to pounce multiple times rather than press the rmb in the general direction of its opponent once and wait for them to die.

#

Which can be achieved in a couple of ways - my issue is that I don't think this one is such a way.

frosty heron
#

Well on defense of the Utahs there's a bug related to pounce I've already used against them and managed to kill 2 Utahs that pounced me as Carno

#

And it's the "Tree bug"

tender hatch
#

Let me guess

#

Tou get stuck in a ttee

#

Tree

#

Omg my spelling

frosty heron
#

Just run into a tree and the Utah in your side will get stuck there uncapable to move

tender hatch
#

Wasnt that fixed?

frosty heron
#

Nope I did it the last weekend

tender hatch
#

I'm pretty sure they get stunned when you run into a tree now

#

Oh damn

frosty heron
#

They both literally got stuck mid air

#

And there wasn't any lag issues on that server. At least on that moment, think player count was 32

tender hatch
#

I'd suggest reporting it (if its not being tracked)

frosty heron
#

If I manage to record a clip sure will report it

grave veldt
#

i mean i still want to see pounce for ourselves before making any judgements

#

but i still think "no-pounce zones" should be a thing

#

Its rly broken how a utah can just pounce literally anywhere on a dino even a stegos tail spike and somehow end up on the side of it

#

it doesnt make sense and it still enables the "press button to kill dino" mindset

tender hatch
#

Honestly

#

If you pounce the wrong area, you should be punished

#

Along with missing

grave veldt
#

thats what im saying

stray cypress
#

I think for stego specifically utahs who pounce the tail should just be immediately killed by the spikes I remember they used to show off utah getting killed on trikes horns I dont see why diving face first into stego spikes doesnt lead to death

grave veldt
#

^

tender hatch
#

I'm happy they're readding the miss pounce animation

grave veldt
#

same

tender hatch
#

No more will you spam pounce

grave veldt
#

now ppl cant spam

#

no pounce zones will probably come soon actually since theres no reason they would work on it with trike but not implement it

tender hatch
#

We just need the bleed pounce, punishments for pouncing the wrong area, and miss pounce animation, and pounce will be 100% balanced in my eyes

grave veldt
#

^^^^^^

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

Becuz that’s an apex

frosty heron
#

Press Tail Swing in the right moment, kill stuff

grave veldt
#

Literally all apexes will be like that

#

All apexes r gonna one shot Utah

#

But apart from that stego needs to actually time it’s attacks otherwise the Utah’s can just pounce it

#

The spamming stegos will die first

frosty heron
#

Well of course, but for that reason the fact Stego exist in the current niche its unbalanced

grave veldt
#

Ye I still understand why it’s here but since it is here we gotta balance it

#

Even if it may seem op we need to balance it accordingly

frosty heron
#

I mean nothing will take on a pack of 3 Stegos, unless they're real potatoes

grave veldt
#

Anyways stego still needs to time it’s attacks

#

Spamming will waste stam and the pred can get a free attack in

tender hatch
#

Stego really isnt imbalanced in this niche

#

Or more or less OP

#

But due to its speed, it really does nothing to the ecosystem

grave veldt
#

Stego rn is pretty easy to kill becuz of pounce and the broken tail hit box

frosty heron
#

Legacy might be broken in a lot of aspects. But it had some of them that actually makes me like the combat when it comes to knowledge/skill, right now after the last patches Legacy lag turned that in a NoNo your positioning and patiente wouldn't work because teleports and weird stuff

grave veldt
#

All I’m saying is that Utah shouldnt be pressing one button and then dealing massive dmg in a few seconds

frosty heron
#

I agree with that, think I said it multiple times

#

But idk feeling like people wants Utahs to sit on a rock and bark only Lol

grave veldt
#

Idk but let’s see how pounce works with bleed based instead of dmg

frosty heron
#

I enjoy combat/hunting, people gets salty too soon when getting killed by smaller dinos

#

Think last week we hunted a Stego as 3 Carnos and the guy just spitted Salt on global at us, saying we cheated

grave veldt
#

Did u guys abuse the tail hit box?

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

Ok

frosty heron
#

All of us got hit once by the Stego

#

I almost died in 1 hit

#

(He got my head)

grave veldt
#

Then that’s salt hopefully that person learns what to do

frosty heron
#

Then I disengaged and decided to heal and be bait for a good amount of time

tepid summit
#

Tbh, the stego issue is mainly network and the absurd speed of the dinosaurs atm

stray cypress
#

nah stego issue is that hitbox abuse thats been going on

orchid depot
#

^

lean shoal
#

hitbox abuse, predators too fast for its horrible attack to hit, roster isnt big enough for it to destroy them as it should.

grave veldt
#

^

#

I still don’t get why they added it

#

Just because it’s ready doesn’t mean it’s good for ecosystem

#

Hard to balance something when the biggest carnivore is a carno

lean shoal
#

they added it because it had a lot of animations and they wanted to give us another playable without delaying the update much.

grave veldt
#

Ik

#

But it ruins the playable when the only thing to compare power wise to a stego is carno

smoky vine
tepid summit
safe anchor
#

well shitty network problems and teleportation isnt meant to be there and therefore isnt a problem with balance in the first place.

smoky vine
#

Desync certainly adds to the issue, but I just don't see the enjoyment of such high speeds in the game. Though I put that feedback comment into general feedback, sorry if it was 'sposed to go here!

safe anchor
grave veldt
#

well high speed gameplay makes for constant action

#

and u wont always be fighting

#

especially when diets come and other abilities

#

u'll think more about other stuff then just fighting

smoky vine
safe anchor
golden coral
#

Are we talking run or trot?

safe anchor
#

either

golden coral
#

Trot is fine, could be a touch faster, so could walk for that matter. Run for travel is stupid in the first place, so should not be a thing at all. Also, why do you need to travel across the map, find a good spot and live there, proper territory and all that. Would be much nicer if that was a thing honestly.

smoky vine
#

Not too upset, personally. Especially if the run wasn’t as fast as is. If someone is persistent enough it can be tough to lose them, at least in my experience

#

I think the walk and trot are fine for the most part, but the run is strange.
That, and, Stego of all dinos shouldn’t use run to travel too much.

safe anchor
#

steggo is a creature that is large not too fast and cant pick its fights which is why the big spiky tail hurts

golden coral
#

Yes?..

smoky vine
#

Okay then

golden coral
#

I honestly think all runtimes should be gutted. Running should be for "get me the hell out of here/get over there right now", not for travel or otherwise. You're hauling ass, you're in a hurry, not just, "Hey I want to go over to the other swamp there for a bit" :p

#

So perhaps it's less the run speeds, more that you can just use run a bit too freely as of right now

smoky vine
#

I can get behind that, yeah.

golden coral
#

Would be less of an oddity with stego (and other big critters especially) speed if it only really hauled ass to get a utah off it or get into defensive position vs a rex or similar (or whatever would suit other critters). Sure, it's still maybe "too fast" but in those circumstances it makes sense to step on it.

smoky vine
#

Actually- Stego has a lot of run stamina, considering it isn’t able to pick its fights.

safe anchor
smoky vine
#

But regarding it being able to pick a fight, it’s pretty capable of doing that in the live servers, as far as I’ve seen.

grave veldt
#

but its way to slow to even use the stamina in the first place

smoky vine
#

Particularly an adult

grave veldt
#

it has lots of stam so it can swing its tail

golden coral
# safe anchor i agree with this,but its nothing to worry about just yet

Fair enough. I think we're just talking in general, and it's just my opinion on how run vs trot should be used and all that. To me run is "life threatening" and trot should be the main "I wanna migrate" or similar mode, so I'd be fine with trot maybe being upped a touch. And walk being more useful would be nice too, right now it makes no difference trackwise, though I guess you're somewhat quieter at least.

smoky vine
#

Maybe this is better a consideration for the future, but maybe implement a line between movement and attack stamina?

golden coral
#

Honestly, stego can swing it's tail way too much with current stamina

smoky vine
#

Its run is pretty quick for its size, and doesn’t use a whole lot of stamina.

grave veldt
#

true it can definitly swing it a lot

#

too much honestly

golden coral
#

I don't think I've ever, excepting heavy bleed and pretty close to death in the first place, been even near to go "Oh, I should conserve my stamina"

grave veldt
#

^

safe anchor
#

later on when diets come in and travelling will be hopefully a big part of the game or at least be a should be part of the game

smoky vine
#

I’ve tried running A to B a lot and use all my stamina with Stego, you can make considerable distances.

#

Which is odd to me.

grave veldt
#

yea but it takes a lot of time to go to A to B

golden coral
grave veldt
#

stego cant pick any of its fights

smoky vine
#

Rest stops are a part of migration, but yeah, migration isn’t about hauling ass. It’s a long journey

grave veldt
#

yea i would like to see trot used more in migration

smoky vine
#

My summarized thoughts are; Stego shouldn’t be able to run as long as it can, and good lord it can swing too often.

grave veldt
#

i think overall its stam pool might be too large

smoky vine
#

Figured I’d cut the speed part out of it since that wasn’t going anywhere.

grave veldt
#

Stego is already super slow as it is

#

doesnt need to be slower

golden coral
#

Nothing should be able to run like it does, really. It's way too good right now, especially since mobility in general is very good. :p And attacks for stego needs a look at, much as I love my stego, even I find the lack of stamina cost on the swings a bit odd.

#

Especially since it's not an attack you're meant to spam or use rapidly in the first place.

grave veldt
#

actually stegos attacks in general are just strange

#

they went for a jab u can perciesly aim

#

but it just looks odd to me imo

#

and theres no running attacks

#

or moving ones

golden coral
#

They are, but that's a different issue. But yes, stego should have its proper swing. If anything, kentro would make more sense with a sort of jab/shove I think.

grave veldt
#

stego having like a tail swing while it moves would help a lot

golden coral
#

If they want to make them different. Kentro has the shoulder check, and could do a more porcupine like rear handling. Since it's entire tail is a weapon, unlike stego who needs that tip of the tail strike.

grave veldt
#

^

#

not to mention kentro is much much smaller then stego

smoky vine
golden coral
#

You're welcome I guess :p

wispy valley
#

@raven egret post feedback here. I don't want you getting in trouble.

raven egret
#

Ok cheers

dry badger
#

@cloud urchin Kinda like dbd? I dig it

cloud urchin
#

Hmm. A bit more like monster hunter. Either stop bitting the target or get knocked off.

crystal wharf
#

so what you mean to say is like, either attack or hold on

cloud urchin
#

EXACTLY

#

if that's already in, apologies

#

If not, prioritize

#

I mean. I'm close to just saying let Stego use its obviously flexible tail to knock the off, but a minigame is fair for both parties

cloud urchin
frosty heron
#

I dislike the idea because what happens on Monster Hunter it's if you don't hold yourself in place the monster drains all your stamina in 3 seconds and you gotta react to it on time, if a Stego bucks and drains your Stam that quick you're good as dead if you fail once, looks fun as minigame but on Isle is just not viable

#

Not viable not because the mechanic itself but the game Netcode, on Monster Hunter you fight AI, here you fight players, desyncs for the attackers will happen a lot

smoky vine
#

@mighty knot
Personally, I think Utah’s momentum buildup is fine. Carno’s buildup needs to be slower than that, though, considering how much faster it is.

mighty knot
#

Sorta what I'm thinking

#

Utah probably just feels slow because I'm expecting Carno to be slower

smoky vine
#

Maybe.
When they implemented the momentum for Utah in EVRIMA so it takes longer, I thought is a good and pretty damn necessary change. Carno just needs the change to take longer than that to build momentum.

#

Not even because realism, but balance and physics lol.

hollow canyon
#

Utah accelerates faster than Carno, marginally so but it does accelerate faster(by about half a second).

smoky vine
#

Yes. I'm saying Utah's acceleration time to reach top speed is fine. Carno's is not.

hollow canyon
#

I think Utah's too slow, Carno's fine. Utah just got a weird nerf to the acceleration to balance out the broken pounce very likely but I'd personally revert that. This isn't how this animal should've been nerfed.

#

Carno takes around 3 seconds to reach full speed, I think that's very much sensible.

smoky vine
#

Have to agree to disagree on that.

grave veldt
#

Utah isn’t too slow but it’s acceleration shouldn’t be almost the same time as carno

#

Pounce was the real issue so idk why they changed its acceleration

smoky vine
#

I felt it accelerated too quickly before the “nerf”.

grave veldt
#

I did feel it accelerated to quickly but now it’s way too slow

#

No reason to be this slow either

smoky vine
#

Either way, Carno shouldn’t accelerate so quickly.

grave veldt
#

Yes carno def needs some nerf to acceleration or deceleration

smoky vine
#

I think Utah’s acceleration is fine, but heck, find some middle ground maybe? Between the instant acceleration from the beginning, and how it is now.

grave veldt
#

Utah’s acceleration is way too slow for what it is

#

They didn’t need to tone it down that much when the real issue is pounce

smoky vine
#

I don’t have great comment, all I can say is that’s another agreeing to disagree. Just unsure of how to make input from there

#

Maybe I’m just looking at Utah from the perspective of if it weren’t so damn small compared to the real animal.

grave veldt
#

Utah’s acceleration is almost the same speed as carnos

#

Imo Utah might have gotten a nerf on its acceleration but this is a little too much honestly

hollow canyon
#

Yeah, it's a matter of personal preference. I don't think the playables should take more than 3 seconds to fully accelerate, it both starts to look really weird and I don't think it's necessary balance-wise either.

grave veldt
#

Agreed

smoky vine
#

Carno should take longer to reach it's top speed, that's all I have for a case.

grave veldt
#

Carnos deceleration I hope is looked at

smoky vine
#

Considering you need to run at top speed to charge, it's a bit fast.

hollow canyon
#

I think it shouldn't, back in that legacy this animal looked really unnatural while picking up speed.

grave veldt
#

It drifts around like a big Utah

hollow canyon
#

There are ways of avoiding the drift altogether but that's a different story.

grave veldt
#

Acceleration on carno is ok I really want them to change the slide/drift

smoky vine
#

It takes less than 3 seconds to be able to begin charging while running, or it's felt like it in my experience.

hollow canyon
#

It took around 3 seconds in my experience while I was looking at the timer.

frosty heron
#

What's the issue with Carno drift?

smoky vine
#

The timer for the charge??

#

That's not

grave veldt
#

Drift needs to be toned down

#

A lot

#

It feels like a big Utah

#

It needs to slide further much more

hollow canyon
#

No, the time on the server - from the moment I started running to reaching full speed. It took around 3 seconds.

frosty heron
#

And pretty ok in my opinion, Carno is heavy but not that Heavy, it's only 2 tons

#

Longer drifts=baits will suck

grave veldt
#

Carno is gonna be 1.8 tons that’s a lot of weight for something moving so fast

frosty heron
#

And you're risking yourself to get it in the face just by baiting

grave veldt
#

Rn Utah’s die pretty easily to a carno with no real way to juke them

#

Carno should usually win anyways

#

But Utah should be able to juke a carno

#

It can’t tho

frosty heron
#

Utah has very Agile movement compared to Carno and I juke Carnos a lot

hollow canyon
#

That isn't true, you can juke Carno's relatively easily as a Utah. You will die if you keep the engagement out in the open for a prolonged period of time but it's really easy to juke a Carno and make it into a forest.

frosty heron
#

I also always manage to run away from them, even on open plains

grave veldt
#

Obviously using the enviorment is a different story

hollow canyon
#

Utahs most certainly don't die easily to Carnos if they're good

#

The bad ones do of course but that's to be expected

frosty heron
#

Just run and make big S or L turns if a Carno is chasing you, their sprint turn sucks

#

And use environment, that's how it should be done

hollow canyon
#

My last 2 deaths as Utahs against Carnos were both caused by getting stuck in the air after pouncing them, that's pretty much the only one really unfair aspect of this match up.

frosty heron
hollow canyon
#

Yea but a good Utah won't let you run into a tree with it, it will disengage before you get to the tree.

frosty heron
#

They almost got me but I had a crazy reaction time and a tree saved me

#

Yeah I just did the move quick enought

#

A Carno tried to do that on me today and I disengaged way earlier

hollow canyon
#

I fought some Utahs as a Carno that pulled off jumping off of me a split second before they hit a tree. It all depends on the skill of the Utah really.

frosty heron
#

They even tried with the water

frosty heron
#

@worthy fossil According to testing if a Tenonto stuns you, you have a cooldown til you can get stunned again, they can't permastun you to death, if it happens it's a bug or you're stuck in their hitbox (maybe)

sinful cove
#

Tenonto needs a cd on his only defense against larger opponents because a predator faster than it chose to engage?

frosty heron
#

Carno isn't technically larger than Tenonto, they're both 2 Tons, but that cooldown thing... Tenonto waste already big chunk of stamina using tail slam

grave veldt
#

carno after the update will be larger

#

their size will be much similar

#

but carno will weigh 200 kg more at 1.8 tons

smoky vine
#

Luckily Carno’s won’t be so supersized.

grave veldt
#

size difference here

smoky vine
#

It’s nice

#

Since currently Carno is nearly taller than Stego’s plates lmao.

grave veldt
#

yup

#

lol

#

also stego and dryo i keep hearing r getting resized

#

unknown if this is fact or not

smoky vine
#

I think they're fine as is. If anyone needs a size change, Utah is a bit too small to be Utahraptor anymore.

#

But, yeah, creative liberties.

grave veldt
#

nope utah is its paleo accurate size range

#

actually this photo better demonstrates its accurate size when comparing it to teno

frosty heron
#

Utah its fine, I heard it gonna get weight nerf, hope that isn't true

grave veldt
#

it is

#

its gonna be 500 kg

frosty heron
#

Bruh

grave veldt
#

as it should be

frosty heron
#

For you maybe

grave veldt
#

no not for me the paleoaccurate size and weights are now being used in the isle

frosty heron
#

I'm a bit tyred of Carnivores getting nerfed to the ground, gives me some bad flashbacks about other games

smoky vine
#

Utah is like a polar bear lmao

grave veldt
#

lol you know that weight doesnt affect dmg right

#

500 kg will just be the weight of utah thats it

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

it doesnt affect any thing related to combat except fall dmg

#

in evirma it doesnt

frosty heron
#

It also affected the damage taken

grave veldt
#

theres locational dmg only now

#

weight doesnt change any major stats

frosty heron
#

Then I'll just TI_Shut

grave veldt
#

everything is just getting their accurate size ranges

smoky vine
#

Just

frosty heron
#

But let's see if that's true when the weight gets readjusted

smoky vine
#

Looking at that “paleo accurate” thing for Utah, only acknowledging the size. Not feathers or anything else

#

I’m seeing a minor discrepancy

stark knoll
#

why is that utah so damn big

frosty heron
#

Bruh plz no feathers for Utah, it might be paleoaccurate but feathered Utah its a big chicken

grave veldt
#

the ist as what we know is:
Hypsi: 80kg
Dryo: 120 kg
Utah: 500 kg
Teno: 1600 kg
Carno: 1800 kg
Stego: 6000 kg
Deino: 8000 kg

smoky vine
#

Utahraptor is massive

grave veldt
smoky vine
#

Hm

grave veldt
#

utah is big but its not the size of an allo lol

smoky vine
#

I was only referring to the size not the feathers

frosty heron
#

Yeah that Utah size is inaccurate

grave veldt
#

yea that general image is so wrong

#

pls use novas images

smoky vine
#

Huh?

grave veldt
#

Doctor novas images

#

for the dinos

smoky vine
#

I don’t know who that is

grave veldt
#

hes a QA member

smoky vine
#

Either way, it feels like the size of Utah on that chart is bigger than he is in game.

frosty heron
#

Cera only gonna weight 1 ton?

grave veldt
#

ye cera isnt all that big

#

its gonna be 1.06 tons

frosty heron
#

I've seen 700 kg estimates somewhere but that's just... Too smol

#

Cera gonna be Carno food lmao

grave veldt
#

i mean carno in an open field seeing a cera

#

the carno is prolly gonna kill it

smoky vine
#

Considering the intent for Cerato's gameplay, I don't imagine Carno easily overpowering it.

grave veldt
#

carno overall is just a bigger dino

frosty heron
#

Hope it has a Strok bitteforce at least

grave veldt
#

cera should get strong bite force so carno cant face tank it

grave veldt
frosty heron
#

Also Diabloceratops being 1.2 tons only feels weird

#

When on Legacy we had a 3 ton OP mid tier 😂

grave veldt
#

1.2 tons of muscle seems scary enough for me lol

drowsy shell
#

ngl chickens are pretty badass

sinful cove
#

Chickens are more badass than the rat raptor we have lol

grave veldt
#

i wish utah was deleted lol

frosty heron
#

Lol

#

Wish Herbie mains were not so salty

sinful cove
#

Upset that i spoke the truth about ye olde novaraptor reject ay

slim dragon
#

Why do you ask to remove Utahraptor ? It's not even in the game

grave veldt
#

lmao

sinful cove
#

lol truth

grave veldt
#

You know it might just be me but it feels like Utah

#

is a jp copy

cloud urchin
# frosty heron I dislike the idea because what happens on Monster Hunter it's if you don't hold...

You don't have to react to it 'on time', however, you just have to do it before knocked off. Only late game monsters, in most cases, evaporate your stamina bar even when actively bracing yourself. Beyond that, those numbers can be tweaked afterwards. You could even make it so that Utah gets small stamina buff if it willing jumps off a target. That's fine, but there needs to be punishment for being knocked off as well as a realistic way to knock Utah players off.

If dsync is the problem, then a quick rework is to have a Pouncing Utah start in the brace state where it can't be bucked off without depleting its stamina while turning the damage window into the vulnerable state where it can be. At this point, all the Utah player has to do is let go of the mouse button.

grave veldt
#

@alpine plover

alpine plover
#

yes?

grave veldt
#

you should probably edit ur paragraph to say herbivore instead of carnivore

#

"Hypsi is at this moment the most useless predator The Isle has. "

alpine plover
#

Thanks!! It was my damn phone lol

#

Changed playable for predator

grave veldt
frosty heron
#

@grave veldt Hey man if I survived an Utah pounce as Juvi Stego you should be able too TI_LUL

grave veldt
sinful cove
#

upvoting ur own suggestion TI_Yikes

grave veldt
#

Lmao sonic did u rly upvote ur own suggestion

sinful cove
#

So shameless lol

grave veldt
#

Anyways Sonics suggestion I still don’t agree with it

sinful cove
#

Yeah screw utahraptor lol

#

Fix its braindead pounce mechanic before giving it better accel

#

It definitely doesnt need a speed boost either

grave veldt
#

^

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

When you have no argument of substance to say so you resort to salt TI_Wheeze

#

Silly rex mains

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

You really wanna buff Utah??? Cmon lol

sinful cove
#

Lmao you're the only one here being salty, I was just stating the obvious that utah doesn't need a speed boost

frosty heron
#

And I'm not gonna talk the histories on the actual game, never enjoyed other people saltyness so much

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

Ok good

#

Leave Utah as it is and fix it’s broken pounce before anything

cloud urchin
#

What's all this about NaCl?

frosty heron
#

I even agreed with most of the stuff people whine about from the Evrima Utah situation

sinful cove
#

God knows

#

This guy just trynna flame bait or smthn

grave veldt
#

While I do agree Utah acceleration is a little too slow the main issue is still pounce

frosty heron
cloud urchin
#

...should I come back later?

sinful cove
#

Making fun of your stupid comment =/= defensive lol

grave veldt
sinful cove
#

Utah pounce should get fixed then its accel can get fixed at the same time

grave veldt
#

Honestly herbis have a right to complain especially stego mains their Dino was done poorly

#

It’s hit box can be abused like fuck and Utah’s destroy it in packs

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

Flame baiter try harder lol

frosty heron
#

Go back to eat bushes m8

sinful cove
#

That all you got

#

Disappointed tbh

grave veldt
sinful cove
frosty heron
#

And hopefully someone else will enjoy your salt in the global chat when you die, again

sinful cove
#

Again who here is being salty aside from you? We were discussing feedback broh

#

But whatever lol

grave veldt
#

Ah yes the stego is salty becuz it’s hitbox was abused what a bad stego player

frosty heron
#

Not gonna discuss the same thing again, it's pointless

grave veldt
#

What are we arguing about again

sinful cove
#

Personally i assume stego is shit rn just because no mids or apexes are in, would be kinda broken if it was released with stats to fight an allo when the biggest thing is carno

grave veldt
#

If

#

Ig*

sinful cove
#

The hitbox is gay af tho

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

People want herbi buffs cuz they don’t want another legacy isle game

#

Carnis good herbis bad thing

frosty heron
#

I just post a gif and get insta aimed with pistols

frosty heron
#

Explains everything

grave veldt
#

That’s literally what legacy was

frosty heron
#

Nope

grave veldt
#

It’s not even cap

#

Yes

#

It was

#

That’s a fact

frosty heron
#

Not worth discussing Legacy stuff here but I can prove you're wrong

grave veldt
#

A rex can face tank a trike in legacy balance right

sinful cove
#

I just wish herbis had more niches personally, they seem neglected in comparison. I want to eat fruit while flying not just walking ya know

#

More diverse fruit eating

grave veldt
#

Forget about legacy tho

#

Let’s focus on making each playable dinosaur good

frosty heron
grave veldt
frosty heron
#

I killed Rexes with most mid tiers on the game, I mean...

grave veldt
#

Not much you can do even if the trike is skilled

dense hamlet
sinful cove
#

Id say giga is more broken that rex, legacy rex is only “broken” because its competition has bad defense

frosty heron
#

It's stupid yeah but Trike is the worst Apex in the game

grave veldt
#

Sadly

frosty heron
#

Trike sucks

sinful cove
#

Like giga can solo camara and trike ezpz

grave veldt
#

Now let’s make it better here

frosty heron
#

But there's other Herbies that can do it very well specially mid tiers

#

In the mid tier branch Herbies dominate most if not all Carnis

grave veldt
#

Para moment

sinful cove
#

Well aside from some outliers cough cough para

grave veldt
#

Maia is the only dinosaur I feel is actually good

#

From the herbi side

frosty heron
#

Dibble is fucking good

sinful cove
#

Maia is good, diablo is good, legacy dryo is good because its basically a shitpost dino

frosty heron
#

Theri is fucking good

grave veldt
#

Dibble is def good

frosty heron
#

Stego is damn OP for a Mid tier

sinful cove
#

Galli is good except it takes 10000 hours to heal one utah bite

grave veldt
#

Theri doesn’t count it’s a non survival

#

Stego is the same thing

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

These things don’t count as they weren’t supposed to be played at the time

sinful cove
#

‘Don't get hit’ is kinda a dumb excuse for atrocious healing lol

grave veldt
#

Trike is the one that rly irks me honestly

sinful cove
#

Trike and para are sad bad

frosty heron
#

I've killed Utahs with Galli

grave veldt
#

Are we really defending legacy isle

sinful cove
#

I have too what's your point tho

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

I killed a couple idiot sub gigas with a galli but its still annoying to be on 3rd screen from 1 tip of tail utah bite for over an hour

grave veldt
#

Herbis weren’t done very well in legacy tho

#

This is a fact

#

So I hope their made better in evirma

frosty heron
#

This never happened to me tho

sinful cove
#

Yeah its unbalanced it doesnt invalidate the other tho lol

grave veldt
#

Yea dilo bleed from legacy is op

#

But the main point here is that herbis weren’t done so well

#

So let’s make em viable that’s all

#

Teno is a great example of how a herbi should be done honestly

sinful cove
#

Or assridden by a utah as a rex on one of those gay ass no alt servers, couldnt be me tho i dont even bother making rexes on non officials or friend servers

frosty heron
#

And also Theri murdering a Rex in 2 seconds being able to do it even in a frontal engage (not now after the nerf)

sinful cove
#

Hypsi could be a great example too with some touchups

grave veldt
#

Teno I think is the best example at how herbivores should be done

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

In their respective tiers

frosty heron
#

Never got killed by assriding on survival, learn to drag/brakecheck with the Rex and you can defend yourself from most players, just those really good ones will kill you

sinful cove
#

I remember some guy left feedback bragging that he and his clan buddies trained like a year to assride rexes as utahs lmao

#

Like thats something to brag about broh

grave veldt
#

Lol

frosty heron
#

Instead of crying about it everywhere, git gud

sinful cove
#

Bragging about abusing a hitbox is kinda sad tho

grave veldt
#

A Utah assrode me to death I will get good now

#

Lol

sinful cove
#

Most of the time i brakecheck them but its still annoying asf, i just avoid no alt servers unless im following a friend

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

I mean I don’t blame them ass riding is cancer

frosty heron
#

I avoid Alt turn wanna know why? Because there's dinos there like that the Giga that become broken af

sinful cove
#

Also gotta admit tho ive gone on no alt servers as cera a few times to assride rexes im not innocent

frosty heron
#

Giga it's untouchable with Alt turn

grave veldt
#

So happy evirma has a much better version of alt turn implemented into the whole movement systems

frosty heron
#

Evrima removing it was the best deal for everyone

#

And also made it more realistic, I currently enjoy Evrima more than Legacy, Even if I had fun on Legacy aswell

#

But my point since the beginning it's the same thing, Carnivores hate is over the clouds

#

Just take this phrase to resume Legacy: Rex it's OP, remove Leg break

sinful cove
#

Lowkey rex is one of the more balanced legacy dinos

frosty heron
#

When more than half of the Rex players I've seen bite the dust unless theyre paired with another Rex

sinful cove
#

Nerf giga, but legacy doesnt matter anymore, it is just an example for the devs of how not to balance the roster lul

#

Only bad thing about legacy rex is how many of them are on servers taking up like a 3rd of the population

frosty heron
#

Legacy for me died when devs tried to fix the hackers issue and the game when laggier overall, is not fun to play anymore

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

Yea its the face of dinosaur media basically tho it gets tiring to see or hear one every few min. I wanna feel like “oh shit it's a rex” not “ugh another rex?” Ya know

But apparently it will be a great challenge to grow one in evrima, i hope it cuts the population of adult rexes by a ton

frosty heron
#

As it should, if the Rex gonna have a viable sub Stage I'm ok with being a challenge to grow

#

I'm currently growing a Stego and feels hard to do it specially on servers with so many carnivores

grave veldt
#

Growing apexes should be hard

#

But once grown your basically at the top of the food chain

cloud urchin
#

Growing Apexes should take an average of 12 hours

grave veldt
cloud urchin
#

Lol

grave veldt
#

Yea no

#

Lol

cloud urchin
#

Let me explain first

#

Leave the Juvi and Sub stage alone

#

Just take the 1 hr adult growth, and multiply it by 6.

#

Juvi-3 Sub-3 Adutl-6

#

12 hr growth

grave veldt
#

Pls don’t post that in feedback

#

U would get so many X’s

cloud urchin
#

Lovely Scars, I Welcome Them

grave veldt
#

Max apex growth should be 8

#

Even that’s too much imo

cloud urchin
#

Sure, if they nerf their overall power, I'll accept 8 hr. But so long as they're 4 times as strong as the next mid tier, they deserve 12 hr growths.

#

Besides, it's not that a Fresh Rex, Giga, or Trike is lacking in viability. You just have to play them a little smart.

#

A 1.0 Rex is something that should be rare to find, a monument to a player's skill and/or luck.

frosty heron
#

12 hours it's insane, imagine dying at 80% of your grow Lol

#

8 hours should be max grow time of the top Apexes, and even so if you want a thing to be "rare to find" in the game, we gonna have the elders

#

While a normal Rex could be rather common, and elder Rex will not

#

Just imagine such beast being 15% larger than a regular Rex

sinful cove
#

Brachi being 10-12hr could work unless its somehow shit but the others are fine at 6-8 lmao

#

Tho perhaps depending on how ‘viable’ the growth stages of the animal are it can be slapped with a worse growth punishment for not playing correctly

#

No way should rex be common tho lol dont need that again

frosty heron
#

Make the first 30%-40% grow part of the Rex a pain in the butcheeks and it might reduce the population

#

Or whatever, but then if the Dino as Adult is fucking strong, no whining, it's the present you got for making it full

#

At least, just strong Dino

grave veldt
#

12 hours is just

#

no

frosty heron
#

Killable of course. But strong, and hope it has mechanics/form of gameplay that requieres mastering

#

That punishes Unga bunga players

sinful cove
#

A rex that grows right should be 6-7hr but if it does like all the wrong shit (afk, bare minimum effort, taking no risks) i think 10 hours is a good punishment for something with such an athletic juvenile and sub stage. But like only total shit trash players would end up getting that punishment because theres no excuse to grow with minimal effort on such an athletic animal

grave veldt
#

honestly i dont like afk gowing

sinful cove
#

Same especially on mobile animals

grave veldt
#

why would u wanna try to afk grow and not play the game lol

frosty heron
#

If the sub is strong enought to fight Carnos im ok with it

grave veldt
#

bigger sub stages can probably take on a carno

sinful cove
#

Waste of a server slot to just hide in some trees as something thats supposed to be an active member of the ecosystem

grave veldt
#

^

sinful cove
#

So they deserve 10hr growth

frosty heron
grave veldt
sinful cove
#

I made a joke a while back that afk grow rex players should he punished by having their growth stopped at sub stage with subpar stats and being species changed to tarbosaurus… but unironically i'd love to see it happen

grave veldt
#

lol

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

Rex juvie currently is the best apex juvie

frosty heron
#

Sub is only strong at 90% grow and above

sinful cove
#

Its better than a good handful of non apex juvies too

frosty heron
#

Gets murdered by Juvi Utahs and Ceras

sinful cove
#

Tho we wont know how it is for evrima yet, it certainly looks like a fast little fucker

#

Juvi rex outruns juvi utah

#

Even if juvi utah can defend itself surprisingly well

frosty heron
#

Not with ambush, that's the thing

grave veldt
#

juvi cera is the best juvi out of any dino in legacy

sinful cove
#

I like juvi carno the best myself, juvi cera is a beast tho

grave veldt
#

but legacy has horrible balancing so growing in evirma is much better

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

yea

#

its like

#

kind of crazy how juvi cera is

orchid depot
#

juvi para is insanely strong tho

grave veldt
#

was*

#

yea wtf is juvi para lol it can literally one shot a utah thats fully grown

sinful cove
#

Juvi para is good for bamboozling unaware docktahs

frosty heron
#

Ironically Juvi para OP. Adult meh

sinful cove
#

Adult para is peepeepoopoo

grave veldt
#

literally

frosty heron
#

Adult could do very well with Utahs and Carnos before the last patch tho

grave veldt
#

latest evirma patched fucked everything in the ass

#

legacy*

sinful cove
#

Giga sees you? Better hope its raining and the giga has low motivation to chase you

frosty heron
#

A single Allo can bleed you easily with it so, if you play Para and you wanna live you need to be protected by herds

sinful cove
#

Most herds ive been in use the paras as meat shields lol poor things

grave veldt
#

para is pretty bad ngl

frosty heron
#

I've seen a Para wrecking a dumb Carno 1v1

sinful cove
#

It has such a pretty skin pattern and sounds but its just a steak

grave veldt
#

^

frosty heron
#

Make it faster, Para doesn't seem like a fighter/dangerous dino tbh

#

Or rather give a very good stamina game

grave veldt
#

para should be going for the speed route although it is quite massive compared to allo

sinful cove
#

Dondi said it was supposed to run then nerfed its speed kinda silly

grave veldt
#

balanced as all things should be

sinful cove
#

It needs better stam regen especially, it has one of the slowest regens especially considering its supposed to be on the move so much

grave veldt
#

i just wanna point out how big para is compared to allo

sinful cove
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Just make it a CCer and have better mobility, it doesnt need its dumb headbutt either

frosty heron
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5 tons

grave veldt
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5.34 tons

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quite a huge load

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allo is 2.7 tons

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?

frosty heron
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5,34 tons of pure Dino hamburger

grave veldt
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i think BuffTrike got muted

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wait

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lol

frosty heron
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That means...

grave veldt
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wait hold on lol

frosty heron
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Should we TI_Shut?

grave veldt
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what did he even say

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@sinful cove speak

frosty heron
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Idk thought all us 3 gonna get muted

grave veldt
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yea hes muted

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poor fellow

frosty heron
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Rip

grave veldt
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welp

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guess i dont have a choice

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gotta call a mod

frosty heron
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Wait why is Alberto on that image?

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That Dino will come back?

grave veldt
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yea

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its coming back

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<@&401466542140817419> @sinful cove got muted for no reason

stuck shoal
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Incorrect.