#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 224 of 1

sinful cove
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because common sense isn't so common

pine quarry
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I only did it because I just got the game so I didn’t know they were working on a whole new recode of the isle

tall bronze
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Apparently there is a missing "missed pounce land" animation that's going to be added soon. So that should help with pounce spamming.

limber elbow
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on top of that you can knock off utahs with trees and other things so on paper its in a okay place

tall bronze
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Trees are kind of inconsistent and buggy from what I hear

limber elbow
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all around the entire thing is and depending on what bug you get it could mean death for the pouncer or the one getting pounced. but once they fix most of the issues i feel like it will be in a pretty good spot

short scaffold
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Not sure if this is the appropriate place. But is the feathered Utahs an optional thing or are they planning on having them feathered universally?

rapid bison
topaz hedge
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Question, was the stego tail damage nerfed in evirma?

sharp light
alpine plover
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anyone else worried that cama wont get a size buff once its added to evrima? We’ve haven’t had a playable big sauropod in ages.

alpine plover
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It will, pretty sure its confirmed

grave veldt
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would be lit

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bigger cama would actually be something cool to play as

obtuse shuttle
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Unironically cama should have a bite attack, It had one of the strobgest bites among sauropods

sonic flame
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That animation would look very silly tho lol

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"Oh I've gotta bite, alright just gimme a second, almost there, just a bit more, aaaaaaaaaand" chomp

grave veldt
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I mean I think every dino in evirma has a bite animation so

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Let’s continue the trend lol

safe anchor
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@simple fiber There is a way to also avoid this stego problem you are having time your attacks better so you trade hits i promise you will win.

simple fiber
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Sure I can try that

sinful cove
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Biting the tail shouldnt be a viable strategy either way, im shocked they didnt already have reflective damage on it. How will kentro fare if they don't have reflected/collision damage

golden coral
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Not sure you should have to trade hits to have a chance, that seems odd, since you're basically forcing yourself to take damage to have a chance to even deal it in the first place?

safe anchor
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Look at it as a counter punch right the steggo is swinging punches and the carno is just dodging them by moving and punching back for poor timed attacks

sinful cove
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Carno shouldnt even be hunting stego to begin with as well

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It is a small prey hunter

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Carno biting stego's tail should result in a face full of thagomizer for the carno

safe anchor
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not my fault the steggo is swinging randomly at a carno thats timing its attacks better and i see this all the time,if the steggo plays it right steggo wins

sinful cove
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Point is its an issue when the spiky end can just be bitten on with no repercussions

golden coral
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That would be fine if it went both ways Syn, but you did say trade blows

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Not dodge the carno and retaliate

vagrant inlet
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Until the next update there’s no animal that specialises on hunting stego lol. Which means that until the next update carno is absolutely fine being able to hunt stego as well as it does

golden coral
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Considering utah does fine hunting, carno does not need to, nor should it

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Though it should be needed with the double amount of utahs to say the least

vagrant inlet
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I mean it’s not like stego’s are going extinct because carno is effective at hunting it

golden coral
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And yeah, you're biting a thagomizer, that should be a no go in the first place honestly

safe anchor
golden coral
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Doesnt matter Syn, it's still a strange argument

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Even if the carno goes down in two shots

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You're saying the stego needs to let itself be hit to handle the carno, thats just odd

safe anchor
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sometimes you need to trade blows in a fight sometimes you dont it happens

safe anchor
golden coral
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But its stupid

sinful cove
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The animal who doesnt have the choice to run shouldnt be forced to trade blows especially from something that shouldnt be hunting it

golden coral
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Simple as that Syn it's not a reasonable way of doing it

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Especially not when there's probably ways to fix it

vagrant inlet
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If you’re saying that carno shouldn’t be able to hunt stego as well as it does and then on top of that Utah should be worse at hunting stego then you’re basically saying that stego should have no predators

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Game doesnt work like that

safe anchor
golden coral
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No, increasing amount of utahs does not mean it has no predators

sinful cove
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Utah is supposed to hunt things bigger than it, carno is not

vagrant inlet
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Yeah ok but there are literally two predators in the entire game right now

golden coral
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Stego should be treated like any other big animal

sinful cove
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Carno is supposed to be eating utahs and dryos and other things in that range

vagrant inlet
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Like calm your tits. Big predators that specialise in hunting stego will come. Do you seriously think that carno being able to effectively hunt stegos is a permanent thing or are you just thick?

golden coral
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You suggested it as a solution Syn.. how else to take it then :p

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No, I don't think it'll be permanent, but that does not make it any less strange :p

safe anchor
golden coral
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And are you being particularily insane today, or do you not comprehend that upping the amount of utahs does not make stego invincible, it merely means they need an actual pack

true ginkgo
sinful cove
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Stego should have collision damage on its tail. Simple as that, because its dumb that you can bite those big ass spikes as a viable hunting strategy. If carno can fund a LOGICAL way to hunt stego that's cool but this is stupid

golden coral
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Two carnos can hunt a stego perfectly fine anyway

true ginkgo
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My worry is that stego stays how it is now, while allo, acro, and rex turn up.

And end up slaughtering it like a wolf in a field of lambs.

golden coral
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Not as if they needed the tail hitbox thing :p

sinful cove
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Yeah if steg stays this way albertos and allos are just gonna waltz up and annihilate it

golden coral
true ginkgo
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I mean it should be taking about 2 allos imo.

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average

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maybe 3

golden coral
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Pair to have a decent chance, maybe trio for the added edge, I doubt allos would come in bigger numbers than four

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Not that numbers matter in current system anyway :p

safe anchor
true ginkgo
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part of the issue is stego have to stop and end up completely stationary to attack. and this issue will be even worse once actual half dangerous predators arrive.

Stego should be able to have a narrow arc tail flick while walking/trotting. So it can try to walk away from larger carnivores while forcing distance with its tail.

golden coral
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Fair enough Syn, it does work, I never said it didn't. I just don't agree that it should be the solution to the situation.

safe anchor
golden coral
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For now at least. And yeh, I'll do that, + good terrain use should discourage them in most cases I think

calm ibex
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even if stego can win against carno that abuses this strat its still poor hitbox issue, and i thought that was to be left behind to legacy and not carry over

hollow canyon
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This isn't exactly the same problem like in the legacy

safe anchor
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you can just not swing at the carno play very relax and wait for the carno to fully commit to its attack and wack him there is a point of no return to where if your aim is good you'll hit the carno no matter what.

hollow canyon
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In legacy "the hitboxes" were really just messed up attack-sockets, meanwhile this is just a Carno that's landing hits on Stego's tail(which probably shouldn't be ending well for Carno in normal circumstances)

calm ibex
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it is in a way that carno here gets rewarded by biting air, since stegos hitbox somehow extends to the back of its tail ONLY during its swing attack

sinful cove
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So wait for him to get several hits in to deal with something that shouldnt be happening in the first place?

hollow canyon
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it's not really that Stego's hitbox extends there during the attack only. It's just that if Stego is already attacking you won't get hit when the tail is getting back to its default position

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in other words you know where the tail is going to be and you know it won't deal damage to you, you just have to get your head out before the next attack.

golden coral
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Easiest solution would probably be to just make it work like the carno charge, you bite the stego tail, you take damage instead, and stego takes barely anything, like how a utah takes what, 10% health from a stego on the tail? Would work as a good test for kentro spikes as well. And if they can get in that a utah pouncing on stego tail is an immediate death, like the trike showcase, we're pretty set.

sinful cove
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10%hp from a small predator bite on your tail? Is that the actual %? If so, that's kinda a yikes

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But yeah collision damage def needs to be added when or before kentro comes in

golden coral
sinful cove
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O makes sense

sinful cove
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It's still an issue that they can bite big ass spikes with no repercussions, so many people defending the strategy lol

rapid bison
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"It'S pErFeCtLy BaLaNcEd"

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You still shouldn't be biting an invisible part of a giant ass 2 meter thagomizer and be coming out without taking any damage

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You shouldn't take away the biggest power that a stego has in order to reward small game hunters.

golden coral
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Nah, they need to make the thagomizer do "thorns" + the trike autoattack if pounce comes near it kind of thing. And probably lower the damage taken massively, it's barely even any flesh to bite, unlike normal tail, just spikes

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That it is, it does not mean it's a reasonable way of doing things :p

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Just because it can be done does not mean it should be able to be done perhaps, and it is a bit odd that it's viable to attack what basically amounts to chomping down on a massive spike

rapid bison
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It's like saying a rex should 1v1 a cama by biting the base of the tail because it needs "skill" to get there.

hollow canyon
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While I believe you to some extent - Shark seemingly did it on his first try yesterday.

golden coral
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Going for headshots however, is a lot more reasonable, especially since stego head is very much the main weak point, it even has extra high multiplier I think :p

hollow canyon
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The short video of Carno biting Stego's tail repeatedly was done by him and this was I believe his first time doing that

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He said he's going to hop onto a server to check it out

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If stego can hit a Carno back then that's not that big of a problem I think

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From what people were saying it seemed that Stegos tail couldn't actually hit Carno, at least that's what the first report about it in I think general feedback stated.

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Does the tail hit you on the way back or does it register hits only during the swing?

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Thought so

proud swan
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@hollow canyon that's completely wrong, the hit box goes both ways, we take 95% dmg and have to quit the hunt.

hollow canyon
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Yeh, I can imagine, if that's the case then this isn't that much of an issue I think

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admittedly it is pretty weird to bite the thagomizer but

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whatever floats one's boat I guess

proud swan
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alot of salty stegos dont like dieing to it, thats all

hollow canyon
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I mean 2 good Carnos can take down a Stego even without that so

rapid bison
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Because a small game hunter shouldn't hunt something 2.25 times it's size

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alone

golden coral
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That's very true, it does take a lot of practice to measure distance and all

hollow canyon
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Dripsi, this isn't even the only way in which Carnos can kill a Stego

golden coral
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And yeah, carno should not be hunting stego, nor should anything attack the thagomizer any more than attacking a trike head on :p

rapid bison
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I know but it's the dumbest one to kill a stego and shouldn't be possible

hollow canyon
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You can take it down just fine with two Carnos attacking from two different sides, the moment it commits to defending one flank the other one hits

golden coral
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But yeah, carnos can take a stego easy in other ways, can probably solo from the head too

hollow canyon
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You just have to avoid skidding while doing that which can be done by pulling some other shennanigans

proud swan
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a utah wasn't supposed to solo an apex but it happens. player skill will always find a way to do things that wasn't intended by design. yes a carno shouldn't be able to solo a stego but the right driver can make it happen, in the same breath a solo utah shouldn't be able to solo a carno but again, in the right hands, its possible.
If the dev's nerf everything so 1 cant beat 2 and 2 cant beat 3 ect we're going to have a very stale game. skill should always be rewarded or you're literally snatching the fun right out of players hands.

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@golden coral its not easy, come and do it if it is?

golden coral
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But then you can design the game so it won't be possible that way

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Skill is fine, but there is skill, and there is balance :p

proud swan
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land 23 tail bites vvs landing 1 headshot... id say its balanced

golden coral
proud swan
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i know,alot of our boys can do it

hollow canyon
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Is it 23 bites?

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Isn't tail x0.25 damage multiplier in terms of locational?

golden coral
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Pretty sure it's far less than that

hollow canyon
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That would make it more than 23 I think

rapid bison
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Assriding isn't skillful, a carno should never bite sharp bone and get away with it, a carno who loses to a utah deserves it because it could just run away, the devs should put damage for biting the tip of a stego's tail, and there's a difference between it being unfun to dying to a faulty mechanic and dying a fair death.

hollow canyon
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I mean a Tenonto can beat a Carno but it's a skill match up in general

proud swan
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@rapid bison lol @ thinking ass riding is a thing in Evrima 😄

golden coral
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Then what happened when I did kill carnos Rend? :p

hollow canyon
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You're speaking about Carno playing it flawlessly right? In that case yea Carno will be winning but I don't think most Carnos play like that

rapid bison
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I know it's not the only way, but my point is that it's a completely dumb and unrealistic way

proud swan
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@rapid bison i was refering to legacy, the point is, we can always do things that wasnt by design

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@rapid bison you need to bow out and grab your coat, you literally dont know a thing about this conversation.

rapid bison
golden coral
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Well, considering charging a stego stuns and hurts the carno, I figure anything biting a thagomizer would probably be hurt too, would also help stego in the future vs bigger things

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Especially since it might work well with stego doing a defensive retreat

proud swan
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stegos are already in a strong spot

rapid bison
golden coral
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No theyre not Holy

proud swan
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its utahs that need the love tbh

golden coral
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And they will die very easily when bigger things come in

hollow canyon
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I'm just going to point out that this is probably the best argument for implementing sandbox into Evrima asap.

golden coral
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Stegos are nowhere near the power they should have for when bigger things come in, even allos, not to mention rexes and so on

proud swan
golden coral
proud swan
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hopefully yes ❤️

golden coral
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Im just waiting for when it actually takes 15 or so utahs for a big animal and them still losing half of them in the process :p

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If you think utahs are shit right now, what do you expect utahs to do? :D

rapid bison
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Utahs aren't shit. It takes 4 of them to kill a stego with pounce, and a utah can always get off a creature if it's stamina is draining rapidly or if the creature is heading towards a spot that knocks utahs off.
If utahs were shit, you wouldn't have any utahs doing stuff like soloing tenos or not giving a shit about a dryo's maneuverability, and you should know that they can do that, if you can bring a stego close to death needing that much skill

proud swan
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i already give up

golden coral
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... xD

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Fair enough :p

alpine plover
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Utahs are actually pretty shit hah hah. A stego that knows how to use their environment is really difficult to kill without a few casualties. Nearly impossible to win against a Carno even with packmates. Also what Utahs do you have soloing Tenos now

golden coral
alpine plover
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I personally believe they dont need a buff, its just that compared to the competition (Carnos), they pale hard

ebon kraken
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Ok so you can bait out a stegos attack. Great. But why is the stego even taking damage from the spike bite? A stego should be punished for letting a carnivore get to its head. But biting the tips of its tail should not kill it in the first place.

sinful cove
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Exactly, if anything the moron biting the thagomizers should be punished lol it's only logical

ebon kraken
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Yes they should definitely take damage from biting a tail full of spikes.

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Like the trike video with the Utah

sinful cove
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Yea i hope collision damage is added in next update

ebon kraken
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Me too

full ocean
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grave veldt
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How is legacy stego better then evirma stego

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Lol

rapid bison
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Legacy stego had more health, bleed, turn rate, less cooldown and could wing while moving

grave veldt
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Kind of crazy

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Welp I’m pretty sure something is gonna be done with stegos size or something so ig stats tweaks aren’t too far off

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I just hope stego doesn’t stay this way

full ocean
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One message removed from a suspended account.

grave veldt
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Hopefully

alpine plover
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Utah takes skill to play now and all of a sudden "utah mains" ditch them........lol

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As someone who didn't play utah at all in legacy, evrima utah was insanly fun to play

sinful cove
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utha main: "i practiced for months to abuse this broken hitbox exploit, this takes SKILL and is a VALID tactic"

lavish radish
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@alpine plover #balance-feedback message Yet people are advocating for the annihilation and total nerf of Deino before it's even released... also irl crocs/gators can smack the hell out of things with their tails..

sinful cove
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"i train with my clan EVERY DAY we are like gods"

lavish radish
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So it makes sense. (In regards to deino having a "tail whip" attack/ability".)

alpine plover
grave veldt
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Lmao “I can 1v2 rexes because the game is broke” TI_LUL

lavish radish
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And I don't think anyone is saying deino should be able to 1v2 rexes 😄 but 1v1, if deino gets ambush (in water) that rex should be ded

grave veldt
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No I mean legacy Utah

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Lol

lavish radish
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Oh

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rofl yea legacy utah is stoopid

jolly osprey
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Deino shouldn’t be able to do that on land though. Rex should decimate it in land.

lavish radish
jolly osprey
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Punishment fir not being near a water source, one could say.

grave veldt
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Honestly apexes should have the upper hand when deino is in their land

lavish radish
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^

jolly osprey
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Exactly

alpine plover
grave veldt
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I wouldn’t say it would just die instantly to the Rex but the Rex should win in the end

lavish radish
alpine plover
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I'm not saying denio looks like its going to be OP , it looks pretty balanced atm

lavish radish
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Especially if the denio doesn't/can't flee to water.

jolly osprey
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Rex, Trike, Stego, basically anything that’s considered a “Big Boy” should make a deino sweat nervously when it’s far away from water.

grave veldt
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And actually bringing Rex up as balance is a good point because it’s ai is being worked on

lavish radish
grave veldt
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It should be able to traverse water very efficiently

alpine plover
grave veldt
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I say just give the lunge attack the same dmg as the regular bite with the added bonus of u drowning the prey (or trying to at least)

alpine plover
grave veldt
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I’ll just post this in balance feed back

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Nvm still on a timer

alpine plover
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hear me out on this

lavish radish
# alpine plover I DO want it to be the apex of the water, but if its lunge attack is too strong ...

The way I view it is, similar to what myself, you and a lot of others have said; a deino should not, in anyway, be able to stroll up to a Rex in the middle of a field of flowers and destroy it's day. But if a Rex trots up to the wrong section of a river bank and a deino happens to be there.. should be a bad day for Rex. 😄 Not necessarily saying the Rex has to die from that encounter, obviously, but it'd be a spooky experience for it.

alpine plover
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stego should have a 4 hour growth time but still get buffed

lavish radish
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OH! ON a completely different note!!!

grave veldt
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Woah

lavish radish
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Can we talk about the insanity coming from certain people requesting Ptera have a 6-8 hour growth time?!

grave veldt
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Interesting

grave veldt
lavish radish
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Because it's an "apex" because "it's the only flyer in the game right now"

grave veldt
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So what’s the deal of giving stego a buff right but lowering its growth?

alpine plover
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Flying is really powerful

full ocean
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alpine plover
full ocean
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grave veldt
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Ptera is gonna be the only flying thing so that’s why it might seem op

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But when bigger flyers come in it should balance out

lavish radish
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Yea.. but flying is only powerful in the case of evasion..

full ocean
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alpine plover
grave veldt
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Wait but thatonediodude I’m curious on ur take on how stego gets a buff but gets its growth time lowered

alpine plover
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It should be able to hold its own against apexes but not be able to 1v1 them

grave veldt
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Well see that’s an issue tho

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Cuz it can’t run from them

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So if it can’t 1v1 then

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Then it’s a gg

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And no one will play as it

alpine plover
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No, what i'm saying is that it CAN fight them

lavish radish
full ocean
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alpine plover
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it would just be hard

grave veldt
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It should be 50/50

alpine plover
alpine plover
grave veldt
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Damn 4 hours

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Sum ppl got lots of time

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Lol

lavish radish
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Made me chuckle

alpine plover
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4 hours for a stego is really good, so it should have a clear weakness against apexes

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But still be strong enough to body mid tiers

grave veldt
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Instead of this

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I say

alpine plover
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they should have a better chance at fighting someone who spent 4 hours growing a stego

grave veldt
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Exactly so instead

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Ditch stenops stego

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And use ungulatus

lavish radish
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OH! Do we have any confirmed growth timers for gator boi yet?

grave veldt
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A bigger better stego

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That way

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U can make the stego say 6 hours

alpine plover
grave veldt
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And able to give it the 50/50 chance

alpine plover
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5 hours is a good time for a high tier

grave veldt
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Well if u buff it to the point where it’s an apex

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6 hours isn’t far off

alpine plover
grave veldt
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Although let’s see what they do with it

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Idk

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If the apex always has the advantage

lavish radish
grave veldt
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And the stego is slower

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Then this is bad balance

alpine plover
sinful cove
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stego is still harder to grow compared to a rex for example since rex has much more mobility growing up, so ungulatus-stego having a shorter grow time is still fine. it isn't the one who chooses if the fight happens and if its a 50/50 then it deserves some compensation

grave veldt
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That’s what I’m saying

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I have no problem if they made stego faster then an apex

alpine plover
grave veldt
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But I doubt it

alpine plover
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its just a hard fight

grave veldt
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Every apex right should be hard

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Fight*

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But it should be 50/50

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Imo

alpine plover
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Trike and carni apexes should be 60/50

lavish radish
# alpine plover 98% sure that deino is a apex

I also think it will be, but I think Dondi might've said (a very LONG while back) they hadn't decided if it was going to be on apex level or a tier below. I hope they decide to make it apex.

grave veldt
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The only reason I’m saying for it to be 50/50 is cuz stego doesn’t choose to fight the Rex the Rex will fight the stego so if the stego can’t run from it it better be able to at least have 50/50 chance of winning

alpine plover
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Trike should just plain beat rex/giga/spino imo

grave veldt
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Agreed

alpine plover
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Apex herbviores should just be stronger then they're carni counterparts

grave veldt
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Yes

sinful cove
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trike and carni apex win chances are pretty situational, if the carni charges trikes face like a dumbass it will definitely be the trike winning, if the carni isn't a dumbass and ambushes the trike from behind to grab its neck the chances will most likely favour the ambusher

grave veldt
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^^^

sinful cove
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either way slow fucks like trike and stego need to be compensated somehow since they don't really have the option to flee

grave veldt
# alpine plover Eh, I guess I agree

Also I I would completely agree with stego being. 40/60 chance of winning if it was faster but since it can’t outrun from the fight it better have the. 50/50 chance of winning otherwise it’ll just be another trike vs Rex legacy thing again

alpine plover
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Rex in legacy was like a sandbox dino in survival

grave veldt
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Fr lol

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It’s like they drugged it or something

sinful cove
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rex in legacy is more balanced than most actually, giga was busted and trike sucked shit lol

grave veldt
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Remember when trike was actually good for a certain period of time

sinful cove
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giga vs trike is 100% in the giga's favour as long as the giga has 2 brain cells to rub together, giga also solos camara easily

grave veldt
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Giga is rly busted due to the broken bleed system

sinful cove
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yeah and the moving stam regen gives it a huge advantage too

grave veldt
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Giga literally can bite a trike 3 times and it’ll bleed out

sinful cove
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it will track mid tiers and other apexes across the map easily

grave veldt
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So broken

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And then u have Utah’s 1v1ing everything

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Smh

sinful cove
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but people think rex is broken because it can break your leg if it catches you with its awful stam and ambush that a diablo can juke out of

grave veldt
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The moment they have bone break to Rex but took it away from everything else was a big mistake

sinful cove
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yeah theres no reason anky shouldnt have kept it, it's too slow to do broken shit

grave veldt
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Legacy was the carni good herbi bad

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It’s so funny cuz irl stats show that 75-80% of herbivores will survive the encounter with the predator wether it meant they ran away or fought back etc

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Ofc this would be broken in the game

sinful cove
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yeah because "carnivores are cooler so herbivores should roll over and die"
i hate how many people seem to think like that

grave veldt
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^

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Sorry that trike didn’t eat meat and run and kill things but it doesn’t mean it just died all day

warm mesa
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love how we had evrima carno mains defending their balance breaking bug as “skill”

fallen lynx
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I love how we have evrima carno mains

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I thought they were all killed.

warm mesa
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legacy carno is the haha funni fast cerato
evrima carno is like velo used to be in BoB when it came to balance

marble pond
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Having said that, I am glad someone clipped that anti-stego tactic. It is really popular right now, and needs fixing. As I've said previously, I'm not convinced it's a hitbox problem, it's just a lack of passive damage where passive damage would be expected.

fallen lynx
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"It's skill based" does not warrant it's existence.

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This is not a reply to what you're saying. I agree 100% with animals receiving passive damage from attacking certain areas on other animals.

lean shoal
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the bug is not easy to deal with as the stego. as unless your passive to the point they rush you you cant hit them. every time you swing theres a window of no damage that is easy to abuse as carno with its fast turn and stegos bugged hitbox.

true ginkgo
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Why are people having a full on conversation in feedback?

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Balance feedback discussion is the correct spot for discussion of balance feedback.

This channel here.

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Then again maybe the rules changed and I just havn't noticed. People have been holding a conversation in there for like a day.

alpine plover
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Nothing in the game is gonna be able to kill an Anky if its released at this point

sinful cove
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Some very predictable names putting an ❌on the stego collision damage suggestion lol

grave veldt
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These are the same people who probably thought Utah’s 1v1ing a rex was ok

jolly osprey
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Like others had said, as much as I love anky, it absolutely would throw off balance in game. Pachy is the much better option until we get an apex that can go toe to toe with anky. That’s almost no different than the devs throwing Trike into the game right now. Nothing would be able to hunt one.

sinful cove
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I fail to see how something as slow as anky can throw the game off balance, not like it could hunt players down or anything and its juvie stage would probably be ez carno food

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But i hate the new anky anyway so idc

jolly osprey
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You’re looking at it the wrong way. Put simply: Everyone would flock to it, carni players will only be able to hunt each other to survive. Carno and Utah can’t hunt an Anky.

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Judging by your comment, You’re looking at it from a combat balance perspective, to which you are correct. From an ecosystem perspective, it’s a bad idea unless we at least get a playable rex to go with it.

lean shoal
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@unreal gyro anky is an apex. they want to release all the small creatures first and work up to apexes.

unreal gyro
lean shoal
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weight and height wise yes. its still likely to beat up apex predators with ease.

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think of it as stego that takes no damage and keeps you from moving if you get hit.

slim dragon
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imo only brachi should be able to 1v1 a anky

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excluding strains

lean shoal
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strains brachi (basically a strain) camara possibly rex if it gets the drop on the anky.

slim dragon
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Yeah
But even for Rex, it'd be really hard

lean shoal
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then again anky and brachi wont compete for food at all as ones a tree top browser and the other is a low ground forager.

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rex needs to grab it by the front leg or head.

slim dragon
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Yeah, otherwise it'll just break its teeth on anky's armor
Then anky will remove its ankles

lean shoal
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approaching an anky from the back as anything short of a strain should be horrible.

grave veldt
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Hypo anky wen

slim dragon
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That's like approaching a tank head-on

lean shoal
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its like walking into a mace mounted on a battering ram.

slim dragon
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I want tisso anky tbh
Capable of curling into a ball covered in spikes and rolling over its enemies

lean shoal
grave veldt
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Honestly apex herbivores should go with the main gameplay style of being a very strong fighters and trading it off for speed

slim dragon
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Are those fanmade or official ?

lean shoal
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except shant and theri. shant should have moderate damage and speed but very good bulk. theri is just a dps machine.

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those were fan made a while back.

grave veldt
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Yup certain dinos r gonna be different

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But the main gameplay of apex herbis is to be defensive

lean shoal
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they are by tap but before tap was doing things for the devs.

slim dragon
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Hyper Theri with chainsaw claws TI_TheEndIsNigh

grave veldt
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The main apex carni gameplay should rely more on ambushing and stealth

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Not saying they can’t fight but they should rely more on stealth

slim dragon
lean shoal
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rex should be ambush based giga should want to ambush but still be able to go without it to an extent. spino should mostly be defensive and eat fish or smaller animals.

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its uppercutting a theri.

grave veldt
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Spino is the only exception cuz it’s more of a tank dino

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Although it shouldn’t be tanking stego trike or anky hits

slim dragon
lean shoal
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spino wont be going after apex herbivores much if at all. id say more likely to hunt something like a para at most more likely diablo-maia range.

slim dragon
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So much time spent into getting a sturdy skull, only for it to be turned into piled glass

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I'd like spino to have some sort of symbiosis with herbivores ^^
Since it can't effectively hunt them, they'll hang around each other and protect each other in some way

lean shoal
slim dragon
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Like, herbivore would want to go to a lake occupied by a spino because that would mean there are no deinos in this lake

lean shoal
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spino will likely be a passive deino repellent.

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but still wont be helping herbivores much.

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it itself will still take smaller animals. just apexes will be more or less fine with it.

slim dragon
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Yeah I didn't mean that it should actively help them

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And well, spino is too slow to hunt small herbies either so whatever

lean shoal
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its not really slow if it lunges out of the water and pins them.

slim dragon
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But it's not gonna be stealthy like a croc
It has a huge sail on its back

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well not that huge in evrima model, but still

lean shoal
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i cant remember if there was any concept of it but i think don mentioned it grabbing small animals like a crocodile.

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that would have been a year ago.

grave veldt
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If there’s a herd of apex herbis spino will probably stick to the lake

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I think the biggest fights with spino will be with deino and the apex trio

lean shoal
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the only ones i see spino being able to deal with at all would be theri but thats still super dangerous and maybe shant if it ambushes it and gets a few good hits in.

grave veldt
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True

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But stego trike and anky are relatively safe

lean shoal
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spino should be limited to mid tier and psuedo mid/suedo apex herbis like diablo tenonto maia and para.

grave veldt
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^

lean shoal
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ankys life should be hell until its a sub adult. and then it has to watch out for apexes. good sense of smell + easy to hide + armor and a super weapon when your older and you got a decent easy going tank.

grave veldt
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Growing an apex should be the real fight

lean shoal
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if nothings going to happen might as well be the best at doing nothing.

grave veldt
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I rly hope trike anky or the other apex herbis get put in at a better state then stego

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The fact that a stego can’t one shot a carno in the head is crazy

lean shoal
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trike is likely going to be impossible to kill without an ambush or multiple adults. being as facetanking it is death. stego is likely to be buffed when apexes are in.

grave veldt
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^

lean shoal
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right now the only predator stego has is carno realistically (fuck utah it should not be killing a stego without most of the pack being dead) and deino is water locked and will likely have a hard time with stego.

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it should take 6 well cordinated utahs to take on an apex and even then some should die.

grave veldt
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Yeh I won’t talk about Utah cuz pounce is broken carno can abuse stegos tail and stego while being 5 hours to grow is quite weak

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Also what’s with carno

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It stops extremely fast

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It acts more like an allo then a carno

lean shoal
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stegos upsides. bulky high damage. downsides everything else.

grave veldt
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Stego should be having medium hp not too much but trading it for lots of dmg

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Rn it doesn’t have any of that so

lean shoal
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i think carno is going to get changed a lot down the line. right now its the apex and will likely be pushed into more of a small game hunter.

grave veldt
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It’s still funny that they literally stated on the trellis board of carno being a fast small game hunter

lean shoal
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when allo alberto and sucho are in carno will be less dangerous.

grave veldt
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But it comes out being nothing like that

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Well rn it’s basically a pre alpha beta so I’m not gonna judge it too hard

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But it should be changed

lean shoal
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there is no small game to hunt right now. carno is not limited enough because they cant limit it right now with it being stegos only predator.

hollow canyon
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It is a small game hunter. It's not good against Stego at all, it's passable only because Stego itself is designed in a... weird, questionable way

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e.g. having to stop to use its tail

lean shoal
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yeah stegos spear jab is bad.

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super laggy super unreliable.

grave veldt
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They probably dulled down stego becuz nothing rn can actually hunt it (minus the broken Utah pounce)

hollow canyon
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And before the hotfix Stego was actually capable of sniping things that were seemingly out of its range. I haven't seen that happen since the last patch but that was a thing.

lean shoal
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i hope they gut utahs pounce. it should be a bleed stacking tool not a dps machine.

grave veldt
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^^^

hollow canyon
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I don't think it should be a bleed stacking tool at all, Utah's never been a bleeder

lean shoal
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if the server / players lagged stegos hitbox would break causing the tether stabing.

hollow canyon
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I simply think the dps should be ramping up the longer Utah stays latched on

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It shouldn't burst people down with it the way it does now

grave veldt
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Well they should do something with the pounce becuz rn it just kills everything way too fast

hollow canyon
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meaning that you actually have to commit the stamina to the pounce to deal sensible damage with the pounce

lean shoal
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utah should also be able to get hit if it jumps on something wrong. like a utah pounces a tenontos hip and gets clawed in the face.

grave veldt
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Ik one of the devs said they were working on like some kind of stamina regen debuff after pounce so ppl don’t spam it

hollow canyon
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I don't think it should debuff the stamina regen at all

grave veldt
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Idk if this is still planned

hollow canyon
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I also think the acceleration nerf was somewhat missguided

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pounce should simply punish utah for missing it

grave veldt
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Yea the acceleration on Utah is fine

lean shoal
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pachy might get pounce resistance which would be so good. pachy would finally be a force.

hollow canyon
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if you miss it - you should take a moment to recover

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then it should also not deal high damage straight away but deal more damage the longer utah stays latched on

lean shoal
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yeah the acceleration was fine just pounce is broken as hell and it turns pretty fast.

grave veldt
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Also if u pounce on a wrong part of the body say the front of a teno u shouldn’t get rewarded for it

hollow canyon
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Yea definitely

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it should work as it used to back in the day

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you pounce the head/tail? You fall down onto the ground

lean shoal
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yeah you needed multiple utahs to damage or bleed things out with pounce.

grave veldt
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Ye I loved how it was before where u would pounce the front but the teno could do tons of dmg if u stayed latched on

hollow canyon
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Then reverse the acceleration nerf, it's admittedly a bit weird for it to accelerate almost as slowly as Carno

grave veldt
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The acceleration of Utah was fine before imo

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They need to focus on reworking pounce

lean shoal
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carno needs to be kicked in the knees. it should skid much further when it drifts out of its run and should accelerate a bit slower.

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but the charge window should be sooner.

grave veldt
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The acceleration on carno is ok I think the main issue is how fast it can just turn and stop

hollow canyon
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Charge should probably be usable from a standstill in that case

lean shoal
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you should be able to start charging when your speeding up just it slows your acceleration even more.

grave veldt
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Ye

hollow canyon
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If you were to ambush someone you should hide in a bush and then go straight into charge from there knocking someone down

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rather than having to reach full speed before being able to hit someone

lean shoal
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the charge feels clunky rn. you should be able to start it sooner but it should slow your acceleration and slowly increase the power as you speed up.

hollow canyon
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In general I think Carno's acceleration is fine, it could maybe skid a bit further. Acceleration atm takes close to 3 seconds to reach the full speed

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It is very clunky

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there's a bug that allows you to charge in place/ do a 90 degrees turn or even a 180 while charing

grave veldt
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It’s deceleration is way too fast for a 2 ton Dino

lean shoal
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the meter could fill up as you gain speed with it and then go on the normal cooldown timer.

hollow canyon
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you can technically turn better while charging than while running if you use that bug

lean shoal
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yeah carno should skid like a full body legnth if it tries to stop mid sprint.

hollow canyon
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it is a bit difficult to pull off in a combat scenario though

grave veldt
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Yes carnos turn on a dime rn

hollow canyon
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No, you don't get what I'm saying. You're talking about normal turning while running

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I'm talking about bug that allows it to turn while charging

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better than you turn while running

lean shoal
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carno would be fine if there was something to keep it in check but there is not yet.

hollow canyon
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you can just sort of slide sideways while charging, it takes some practice though

grave veldt
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Well stego is kinda supposed to keep it in check but it’s slow and has a strange design

lean shoal
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deino might fix part of the issue but i dont think deino will do a good enough job with how immobile it is.

hollow canyon
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Stego most certainly isn't supposed to keep Carno in check, it wouldn't be able to kill it unless Carno wants to fight the Stego

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Issues with Carno will very likely resolve on their own with the release of update 3 since everyone will play the Croc

grave veldt
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If carno is the fastest Dino to be released then ig ambush dinos would be a carnos worst enemy

limber elbow
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Stego was put in so the update wouldn’t be completely dead in a few days

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That’s prob the only reason

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It not for balance at all

grave veldt
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I still don’t get adding stego now

lean shoal
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on the roadmap the best bets we have against carno are kentro and deino. kentro will probably be miserable to charge at as carno and deino is a larger predator.

grave veldt
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It just throws off balance

hollow canyon
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Yea I think ambush should be in the game precisely to allow other carnivores to hunt things like Carno and Utah

grave veldt
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^^^

lean shoal
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stego was put in because it was mostly done and they didnt want to delay for another herbivore that could fight off carno.

hollow canyon
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As they are they are way too safe, Utah less so atm but Carno is too safe if no other animal can reach it

grave veldt
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I got that but like the issue is stego isn’t balanced at all

lean shoal
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namely kentro was the likely replacment.

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stego was going to get an attack more like it had in legacy but we got lancer stego with a chomp instead.

grave veldt
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Stego dies quite easily to a Utah pack

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3-4 Utah’s can kill it with not much difficulty although pounce is broken for all dinos

lean shoal
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stego dies pretty easy to 3 carnos as well. although being dead the second 4 utahs pounce you is dumb.

grave veldt
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Yea

limber elbow
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Maybe they will buff it when we have actual apexs in the game

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Bc it obviously way to weak to come close to what other apex’s should be

lean shoal
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stego needs to be changed. the thing is missing a key part of its kit in a 180 degree quick turn.

grave veldt
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I think what they did is they were adding carno and hypsi but needed another dino to check carno and the one most polished at the time was stego and they dulled down

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Imo

lean shoal
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stego was planned to get a kind of biped push off 180 turn that did passive damage.

grave veldt
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Wonder why it’s not added

lean shoal
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stego had over half its animations done with the only other option being trike which has less animations and is even larger.

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because stego feels rushed. and carno was 100%

grave veldt
#

Stego is missing a lot of things

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The devs say oh stego isn’t an apex which is fine

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But if ur not gonna make it fast enough to run away or strong enough to fight another apex then no one will play it

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And it will be wasted

jolly osprey
#

It’s for that very reason that I’m worried for Magy. What defense would it have?

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I like the idea of playing as Magy, but I won’t bother if I just serve to be butchered by apexes. Could it outrun the apexes? I guess we’ll find out in time.

fallen lynx
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I think Anky will be absolutely destroyed by everything when it's released.

wet sleet
#

Not if armor works well.

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A proper armor system that reduces damage by a flat amount can be very powerful.

grave veldt
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they already said that an armor mechanic is coming so im not too worried for anky

crystal wharf
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@vagrant inlet the issue is, stego currently is demolished by semi competent carnos and utahs, its not just that it can be killed by them, its that its killed by them on a semi regular basis

grave veldt
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yes

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idk if they made stego like that on purpose but its pretty weak for a dino that takes 5 hours to grow

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also the main point i always like to bring up is if u want stego to be weak thats fine

vagrant inlet
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Not what I said

grave veldt
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but u have to give it the mobility to escape the thing that can kill it such as a rex

vagrant inlet
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Ok. Refer to my post in balance feedback because you seem to have ignored/misread a great deal of what I wrote.

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@crystal wharf The times I’ve played stego i’ve had zero problem defending myself from either. The most broken i’ve found is utah packs but those are easily negated by trees.

Frankly I don’t want to start going into personal attacks but I think you need to get better as stego.
I’ve been killed and i’ve survived. As for for competent carnivores being able to kill you, I don’t know what to say other than, isn’t it a good thing that the game is allowing competent smaller animals to take down incompetent larger animals? Or do you want to return to legacy where being big means you get a free ride.

The only issue with stego is the with tail hitbox issues. Otherwise you need to accept the fact that if a bunch of Carno’s are good enough to outplay you then it’s not the games fault

crystal wharf
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that should not happen

grave veldt
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Do u think its ok for 3-4 utahs to kill a stego pretty easily?

crystal wharf
#

stegos jab is not useful enough against anything with a fraction of that skill

grave veldt
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lets not forget the fact that the tail only does 1100-1300 which seems like a lot but it isnt when ur growing a 5 hour dino

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a stego cant even one shot a carno on the face

crystal wharf
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the stego jab needs its hitbox issues fixed in the near future and as i stated in my suggestion above it needs something to more effectively cover its flanks against attackers, the jab doesnt have enough range to deter animals from attacking its backside the aforementioned swipe could deter attacks like the one seen above while not completely phasing the jab out of the picture

grave veldt
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yea thats what i was thinking

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itll prolly change when deino is in

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well actually it better change when deino is in

lean lotus
#

That was quite something to read.

stark knoll
lean lotus
#

Even more so that he'd actually think animals would just be left to rot when new additions come in over some sort of need to "satisfy carnivore mains", but, I guess there's historical precedent with how bad herbivore gameplay tended to be due to how diets and other needs were never explored in the past.

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Under those circumstances, where the game was all based around on what you could kill, with what animal, I guess it does seem like the game was bias towards carnivores.

crystal wharf
#

actually read it this time, yeah thats painful to read, seems like the alt account carnivore bias guy has begun eating discord regulars

grave veldt
#

There was someone tryna defend an actual bug too lol

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But apart from that Ik carno and teno are getting the proper sizes

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So with that are there gonna be any stat changes? (Apart from speed to match the animation)

ebon kraken
#

There is literally no point in stego being in the game if it’s not given higher health and damage because it will just become fodder. It would look ridiculous to see a stego outrunning predators.

sinful cove
#

There was no point in adding it if they plan to keep it as is, which they probably don't. Though It's always safe to not get your hopes up lol.

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Considering what they did to legacy trike and para when they were still working on that branch, history may repeat itself and make herbis who shouldn't be free steaks into free steaks. They shoulda just held stego off and released it with allo and better stats

ebon kraken
#

Yes I agree stego should have been added later on. I just hope herbis don’t get pushed aside like they were in legacy.

slim dragon
#

For now herbies are in a pretty good spot in evrima. Sure stego is weak, but if they made it with proper stats it'd be unkillable. But Teno can 1v1 carnos although it's much smaller, and dryo is pretty much impossible to catch if played properly. Hypsi is different though, but since it has absolutely no growth time, we can't say it's underpowered.

grave veldt
#

Yes that’s the thing tho it would only be extremely hard to kill because there’s nothing big enough to actually kill it (apart from Utah’s broken pounce)

slim dragon
#

yep
That's why they'll probably buff it once there are apexes in the game. And it'll already become much harder to kill once Utah pounce is fixed

grave veldt
#

Yup

#

Hopefully

dusty fable
#

They probably nerfed stego a bit to not make it Overpowered with the current animal roster. However i just saw that guys balance suggestion and i laughed when it was under "balance-suggestions". Irl carnivores dont always catch there meal and its worked for so why would TI give herbis the boot to satisfy the carni mains. No matter what you play you should have triumph and victory as well as troubles and hardships. Thats the point of a survival game.

hollow canyon
#

As in - that whole paragraph is just sarcasm through and through.

golden coral
#

Making it more difficult to hunt a stego, higher requirements for number of predators, does not equate to it being invincible, having a free ride, or otherwise unhuntable. Changing the amount of needed full pounces from 4 to 6, isn't suddenly going to make stego never die, it just means that now having a full pack of utahs is slightly more needed, and that the hunt might take a bit longer than just getting 4 of them on the stego and then wait for less than a minute. Hunting a stego as a utah pack should be a long time hunt, 10-20 min or so, depending on both sides skill and smarts. As for carno, it was stated that 3 carnos can do it, if they never fuck up. That is clearly not the current situation, for one reason or another. As such, fixing the tail thing, and maybe changing both carno and stego values a bit so it at least takes 2 carnos for a chance, and all 3 for a decent chance, sort of like how 2 utahs were still meant to have a hard time vs 1 tenno, but 3 of them would most likely mean the tennos death unless it was really good and they were not. In return, lower the limit of adult stegos to a pair perhaps, and look over grazing so herbivores can't just sit near water and have infinite food. Grazing should only be to prevent absolute starvation, 1-5% food perhaps, so you have enough time to go sniff for stuff and keep moving, but not so you can comfortably use it while being hunted.@vagrant inlet

grave veldt
#

Actually for grazing they can change it to 10% but give certain dinos the ability to either get more or less from grazing. If stego is a grazer it would be cool as it would be able to get lots of its nutrients on the open plains

cedar shore
#

The diet system will make gameplay a whole lot more interresting as you have to roam around and search for the food you need

grave veldt
#

Yea pretty excited to see what their gonna do with that

cedar shore
#

I hope it will be strongly tied to the perk system

#

So that you actually have to do something to unlock the perks instead of just growing.

lean lotus
hollow canyon
#

Ye, that one was quite certainly sarcasm. He was making fun of the idea that the devs try to keep the herbivores down on purpose or something along those lines.

grave veldt
#

Yea diets I think are confirmed to go with perks like they complement each other but

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Let’s see

cedar shore
#

it is such a good oppertunity to make the gameplay 10x more interresting and engaging

grave veldt
#

Diets system will help herbi gameplay be better hopefully since u need certain plants for ur Dino

hollow canyon
#

Yeah that's the point Ato was speaking about Evrima stego being bad. Tbh I wouldn't say it's necessarily bad but it's definitely not worth growing. There's too much of a risk of losing it in a very unfair way right now and I just wouldn't bother with a dinosaur that takes 5 hours to grow when you can lose it to one unfortunate DC/water bugging out.

cedar shore
#

Yeah it should effect carnivores to some extent too

#

The carno biting the stego tail seems totally broken to me. I mean, how do you even counter that?

hollow canyon
#

You smack the Carno's face

#

it's actually in the range of your strike when it bites you

cedar shore
#

ok good to know

hollow canyon
#

You just need to time the attack, the tail doesn't deal damage when it moves back to its default position

#

So in other words - the carno has to bite you after you've made the attack

cedar shore
#

Idk if it is actually a balance problem or if it is just like with tenanto and players dont know how to fight with it

hollow canyon
#

From what Rend was describing(he is one of the people who came up with this strategy of hunting Stegos) you need one Carno to bait the attacks on the side

#

Then the other walks behind stego and while Stego attacks the first one, the second Carno bites its tail while its coming back

cedar shore
#

So just dont take the bait i guess?

hollow canyon
#

then when stego goes for the second carno the first carno goes for the head

#

yea you just don't take the bait until you can hit the Carno

cedar shore
#

good to know

hollow canyon
#

If it's in your range and you smack it then - gl hf to the carno. The one on your tail just lost 95%+ of its hp

#

since that's a headshot

#

to my knowledge unless you're at absolute full hp you die to that while employing that tactic

#

Admittedly it's still kind of stupid for Carno to bite Stego's thagomizer

cedar shore
#

I remember when update 2 hit everyone though teno was free food for carno but they didnt know how broken the tail slam was then

hollow canyon
#

It's not broken, I think the match up is pretty even in most cases

cedar shore
#

Now it is ofc

hollow canyon
#

a good Carno will probably kill a Tenonto every time but it seems like Tenontos do better in herds

cedar shore
#

But when update 2 just hit you could stun a carno over and over again untill it died

hollow canyon
#

I've played Tenonto shortly after update 2 was released upon hearing it was bad but I've bodied a couple of Carnos in one session and decided it's not too bad

#

oh yea that was bad

cedar shore
#

becuase there was no cooldown on the tail slam stun

hollow canyon
#

I haven't played at the time

#

but I've heard about how broken that was

cedar shore
#

I played utah 2nd day after release when everyone played carno

#

it was so, so much fun

#

People had no idea how to go up against them so we just pounced and killed everyone

hollow canyon
#

Utahs right after update 2 were definitely overtuned, the iframes on pounce and the ability to pounce anything at any angle

#
  • that was before the acceleration nerf
#

I'd personally probably buff Utah's acceleration and make some other changes to it to make it not so overpowered as it used to be

#

because the current acceleration might be a bit too hard of a nerf honestly

cedar shore
#

could be a bug

#

I dont think they would intentionally nerf the accelleration like that

hollow canyon
#

I don't know whether it was intentional but it seems like it was to me tbh, I haven't seen anyone say it wasn't

grave veldt
#

I mean bugs aren’t something I like abusing because their gonna be patched

#

Honestly it’s ridiculous that u can assride a stego in evirma becuz of a bug

#

I still believe stego ungulatus instead of stenops would be better

#

Then u have a bigger stego variant and u can tweak stats accordingly

orchid depot
#

being able to assride a dinosaur that's primary defense is located at its ass

hollow canyon
# grave veldt Honestly it’s ridiculous that u can assride a stego in evirma becuz of a bug

You can't and it's not a bug. This is merely a method that capitalises on Stego attacking with its tail. You bite the tail after the damage frame takes place meaning that the "attack" is considered over by the game at that point. You don't "ride" the Stego(because if you keep your head at its tail it will smack you almost sending you to a grave or just outright killing you) and you typically need two people to pull this off. I haven't seen or heard of a Stego getting killed by being repeatedly bitten on the tail by a single Carnotaurus.

#

This is the equivalent of some animal attacking Tenonto after it threw its tailslam - you can do that after the tail makes contact with the ground as Tenonto is at that point recovering from the attack. Technically you can also attack a Carno that just used its bite because every attack has cooldown during which the part of the body that deals damage is off and can't actually hurt you for a short moment.

grave veldt
#

its not a bug?

#

ur telling me this isnt a bug

sinful cove
#

So you think its ok for carnos to hunt by biting thagomizers TI_LUL

grave veldt
#

if this isnt a bug

#

then im a dinosaur

grave veldt
sinful cove
#

No way anyone in the right mind would design it that way on purpose unless they have some grudge on stego lol

grave veldt
#

im not gonna speak too much of this cuz its gonna get patched obviously but theres no way u cant say its not a bug

sinful cove
#

How it should go: carno bites thagomizer, carno gets stabbed through its throat or face and dies

grave veldt
#

stego doing passive dmg from its spikes would make a lot of sense like the planned feature for trike

proper zephyr
#

kentro is gonna rely a lot on passive and recoil damage if it is to survive

grave veldt
#

if this is stego

#

then im scared for kentro

proper zephyr
#

a carno crunching down on a thagomizer is gonna cause those solid bone spikes to pierce right up through its mouth and face

grave veldt
#

i can see a carno almost dead after biting a tail spike

#

although stego vs carno thats not too big of an issue rn the main issue is utah vs stegos

#

and how poorly stegos do against them

golden coral
#

I don't think it's a bug no, only perhaps a bit of a questionable hitbox/attack movement of the stego, and in general questionable how hitbox damage multipliers work, because there seem to be very little difference in target areas, much less than what I would expect at least.

grave veldt
#

yes i wouldnt say its an outright bug but its a major issue that hopefully is resolved soon

hollow canyon
#

It's not a bug. I think I've given a lengthy enough explanation above. Attacks in Evrima have a specific damage frame - meaning that there's a specific point during the attack when the damage is applied. If you make contact with Stego's/Tenonto's tail or Carno's/Utah's jaw outside of that specific window you will not get damaged. That's just how the game works. Should it work like this? No, probably not. I think it's pretty silly to bite the thagomizer of a Stegosaurus and kill it that way but let's not make the definition of a word "bug" broader than it is. And this does not look like a bug.

marble pond
#

Thrusting yourself upon the enemy's sword to damage them, just because they're not swinging at you in particular, is not intended behavior and will be resolved with passive damage. They're doing the same thing for Triceratops. Read #balance-feedback message

hollow canyon
#

Sure but that does not make it a bug, just underdeveloped game if anything.

marble pond
#

It's a mere oversight that it doesn't hurt to bite thagomizer.

#

It's unintended behavior.

hollow canyon
#

yeh, pretty much

marble pond
#

Telling people "It's not a bug!" makes it sound like you're advocating for abuse of thagomizer hitbox as a feature of the game. Don't do that.

#

Lol

hollow canyon
#

No, it's literally not a bug. The fact that people dislike the fact that it's in the game and the fact that it doesn't make sense doesn't make it a bug.

golden coral
#

I mean I get it, Aken does have a point, we should not call it a bug, more simply something that hasn't been tested/balanced all that well, unless it is indeed intended, which it might be for all we know. I would also think it's a bigger issue with the potential difference in hitboxes, but that would require more testing.

hollow canyon
#

It's like Rex running through Triceratops' horns in the legacy - should that be a thing? No. Was that a bug? Also no.

marble pond
#

You're arguing semantics in a way that most people will not realize that you're arguing semantics.

hollow canyon
#

I'm arguing this because at first I thought it was a bug - specifically that Stego cannot hit Carno back when Carno bites its tail. That's how this was at first reported here on discord. Now that would've been a bug. This however isn't and framing it as such is simply misinformation.

marble pond
#

Regardless, the definition of what a bug is in game design is not why we came to #balance-feedback.

safe anchor
#

the carno bites the tail after it finished the attack and the tail is going back to the default position the attack animation is finished from the steggo this is why the carno takes 0 damage.

hollow canyon
#

^ My point exactly

proper zephyr
#

yeah its not really a bug, probably just overlooked during development

safe anchor
#

this not really something you can balance,just play better and not miss every single attack.

golden coral
#

You can absolutely balance it, hitboxes/damage taken, recoil damage, there are ways to work on this.

mental roost
#

^ Number one best way to tweak it, without screwing up the attack frame, is to just make it so that biting the thagomizers does almost no damage , tenoto has a similar issue as well where you can bite the very end of its tail and still do considerable damage despite it being well, the tip of its tail.

safe anchor
#

this is a additional thing yes it can be worked on/further developed.but as is stand right now dont go wildly swinging like a idiot and you shouldnt lose so easy

golden coral
#

Have you tried defending against it Syn? :p

safe anchor
#

yup i do fine and that not me being a dick or anything

golden coral
#

In that case, I'd love to see you provide a vid on how you handle it, because so far, I've failed, and I can assure you, I do not swing wildly, or anything like that.

safe anchor
#

you need to play very passive and wait for them to fully commit to an attack as the steggo has more hp then the carno you can trade hits i only do this if i have to

proper zephyr
#

thorns damage would be important in future for other playables but there are more important things in the works rn i presume

#

i was able to survive as my half grown stego against 2 carnos a day or two ago
sticking in trees or near them is helpful, and its not very difficult to keep them at bay

golden coral
safe anchor
#

the devs cant balance for every single situation in the game its impossible do keep that in mind

hollow canyon
#

Bean, the issue is - not all Carnos are made equal, I've survived against two carnos as well despite the fact that I pretty much never play stego myself. The point is that 2 good Carnos will be killing a Stego most of the time I believe(although most likely not because of this specific issue at all)

safe anchor
#

some players are just better then others also

hollow canyon
#

Yeh, that's true. I don't think it's an unfair match up atm. Stego has far bigger issues than Carnos imo

golden coral
#

Of course not Syn, I don't think anyone expects that either, but you got to admit this is a bit of an odd situation :p

hollow canyon
#

e.g. the bugs and utahs

#

I wouldn't even attempt to go Stego in current Evrima which can drop you at any time.

golden coral
safe anchor
#

sadly and its annoying but im gonna tell you to just play better as weird as that sounds

proper zephyr
golden coral
#

Yeah but that's not helpful Syn, and you know it. I'm sure you could do better than that. It's fine if you don't want to teach me anyway you know, I'm sure I'll eventually figure out on my own.

safe anchor
golden coral
#

Well yes, that's a given, but that's not what I mean you know.

grave veldt
#

Honestly carnos aren’t rly too bad of an issue for stego it’s Utah’s that really raise questions

#

I already made a suggestion on Utah pounce so yeh

golden coral
#

But apparently wanting a few more utahs for the fight is wanting to make stego invincible.. :p

grave veldt
#

This is the suggestion I made

golden coral
#

I think there's a few suggestions around for making utah pounce a bit more demanding and interesting.

grave veldt
#

I don’t wanna bring another game into this but saurian does have a good RPR system

#

Maybe they can take inspiration from that

alpine plover
#

the isle has such a diverse fanbase, theres some people that know a lot about paleontology and like to give how information to normal dudes like me

#

then you have people who think carnotaurus hunted stegosaurus by attacking its thagomizer

grave veldt
sinful cove
#

“I'm so good at exploiting guys just get better at the game this is so balanced everybody knows thagomizers are made of meat and are perfectly safe to bite just get gud”

#

“It's perfectly viable you can counter it by letting the carno bite you a ton of times so you can land a hit without the hitbox being exploited”

ebon kraken
#

“Yes obviously the most vulnerable part of a stego was it’s solid bone thagomizers.”

proper zephyr
#

"it's tiny pinhead! No! Way too dangerous to shoot for!"

fallen lynx
#

Ay yo quick question who wins Sucho or Stego

#

I feel Sucho since it'd be too strong to be added to Evrima in it's current state.

rapid bison
#

sucho would be too slow to get a hit in the stego

obtuse shuttle
#

Who seriously thinks the longer growing and slower animal Who cant choose if It fights or not also needs more skill to fight in equal terms?

slim dragon
#

Is even sucho made for fighting something the size of a stego ? It's a fisher

true ginkgo
#

Stego should definitely win. It's a larger and slower animal with no option to flee. Also sucho is largely specialised to hunt fish.

rapid bison
#

A stego would need to have extremely bad reaction time if it were to lose to a sucho

lean shoal
#

yeah theres almost no world in which a sucho kills a stego. it would have to grab it by the face and rip it open with its claws to take it down realistically which wont happen in game. spinosaurids are more geared toward smaller prey and fish.

brittle bronze
brittle bronze
safe anchor
brittle bronze
safe anchor
#

yeah but without practice you arent just going to be able to pull it off is what im saying

brittle bronze
safe anchor
#

people are not use to fighting good players in general

brittle bronze
#

It's all about holding the correct spacing, baiting attacks and going for the head in between attacks

#

there is a few of us that do this extremely well so far, and we take stego after stego after stego down

safe anchor
#

yeah not panic and just spam keys till you win

brittle bronze
#

exactly

safe anchor
#

if anything the game is balance pretty well not perfect dont get me wrong but people just dont understand the combat

brittle bronze
#

I agree, i think Utahs need their speed back, carnos are slightly over tuned but other than that, yeah

#

spot on

wary otter
#

People also dont remember that carno is getting downsized and likely getting a stat nerf

cedar shore
#

Most likely just a size nerf. It is way to big rn to weight 2 tons lol

#

Its the same size as a damn stego

crystal wharf
#

utah is in a fine place, the pounce is still busted op
carnos still need some serious turn rate tuning but thats about it

#

utahs acceleration is fine if thats what your about to say

brittle bronze
#

I was, and it's really not okay

crystal wharf
#

it really is

#

it makes them have to think before they act rather than just relying on instant break neck speed to get out of any situation

cedar shore
#

The slow accelleration doesnt feel right and kinda takes away from them beeing small fast agile predators

#

Its still not that bad though since they can turn really fast while running

brittle bronze
#

Yeah, the ramp up is a big nerf to Utah and it 100% needs restoring

cedar shore
#

carno ramps up its speed faster

brittle bronze
#

Utah are weak as it is right now, i've killed packs of 8 and higher as 1 carno ;/

cedar shore
#

Utahs are balanced rn

crystal wharf
#

i have played utah, before and after, it doesnt affect them in the slightest

cedar shore
#

Ik it doesnt mean that much but it really does not feel right at all

brittle bronze
#

It means everything, it's harder to out manoeuvre a carno now, you could duke attacks and go for pounces. None of that is possible

crystal wharf
#

it stops utahs from dancing around things like tenontos when they sit right in the strike zone

cedar shore
#

You can run and turn quickly while maintaining the speed

crystal wharf
cedar shore
#

Utahs should be able to run around tenos and bait its attacks though. If they get tail slammed once they are pretty much fucked

brittle bronze
#

pretty sure i know what im doing, and for that reason i aint playing a weak dino man

#

carno is the way forward right now

wary otter
#

well.. they are able to right now so

cedar shore
#

You kinda just seem like a bad utah dude

crystal wharf
#

no, instead you want to play the busted asf carno instead

cedar shore
#

Its still really easy to juke carnos

brittle bronze
#

come fight me lmao

wary otter
#

If you play well, you can juke carnos easily

brittle bronze
#

on a carno, lets see you duke

cedar shore
#

balance honesly rn isnt bad as long as you ACTUALLY know how to play all the dinos lol

brittle bronze
#

its possible, but no way as it used to be

#

you can alt attack and get safe, but a good carno will destroy that shit

crystal wharf
#

you mean its not stupidly easy?

#

god forbid utah be able to be caught and killed by something specialized to kill it

cedar shore
#

idk how you are juking carnos but the entire point of juking is to doge its attacks and run into the forest or jump over a river or something

wary otter
#

not being able to juke around everything easily is good soo

cedar shore
#

Yeah a good dryo is near impossible to catch for any carno

brittle bronze
#

its harder than it used to be, but pre-nerf you could alt attack away and then pounce for a free pounce, on a carno in pursuit

cedar shore
#

But the de sync often gets me killed while trying..

crystal wharf
brittle bronze
#

Thats just me being better to be honest

cedar shore
#

Pouncing should be a lot harder to land.

brittle bronze
#

just like i can take stegos down 1v1 as a carno, quite easily now

cedar shore
#

Depends on the stego

brittle bronze
#

not really

cedar shore
#

U sure?

brittle bronze
#

i've tested it with stego players, i've even been a stego

cedar shore
#

The tail thing?

brittle bronze
#

tail thing is bullshit

#

i was the carno who used that, and thats why he made that video

#

but thats not how you take a stego down, it's just used to get cheap hits in to keep em occupied

cedar shore
#

then how?

#

Ive never seen a carno come even close to taking down a stego 1 on 1

brittle bronze
#

you got free time?

cedar shore
#

?

#

could you not just explain?

brittle bronze
#

there is a lot to type up, and it will be easier for me to voice it to you. I will show you on my server, in game at some point

cedar shore
#

eh im good

#

I never really play stego or carno anyways

#

I like teno alot

brittle bronze
#

Alright man no worries, take it easy.

hollow canyon
# safe anchor yeah but without practice you arent just going to be able to pull it off is what...

^ Which is exactly why sandbox has to be introduced asap. That's my point exactly, Rend and his friends have a server that they use for practice. Meanwhile most other people playing the game get to practice only while risking their animal's death in short instances of pvp. You're not going to get to their level of skill in terms of spacing and accuracy without being able to practice that for a lengthy period of time in a sandbox-like environment.

#

The idea that people should just "get better" while facing against those that get to practice pvp at length on a private server is simply really disingenuous, whilst most of the community relies on their experience from a purely survival-centric perspective. Now the question is... is it really fair that someone who plays the game just on survival and takes 5h to grow a Stego should be pretty much dead by default because there's a group of people that gets to practice actual pvp at length on private servers unlike those players that play on their own?

#

As for the Utah - I sort of mildly agree with its acceleration being overtly punishing. It's the pounce that should've received the nerf and I've outlined what I think that nerf should've been. Either/or - the ramping up of the damage on pounce or the recovery time after missing the pounce.

obtuse shuttle
#

Aken is recently spitting facts here

calm ibex
#

aken for top QA wen

grave veldt
#

basically not everyone has 5 hours to grow a stego and then die because they never used it before

#

i think utahs acceleration needed a nerf but this might've been a little too much

#

pounce is still broken tho

grave veldt
alpine plover
#

Aken goes off
It's concerning on the QA's part though

grave veldt
#

Teno and carno are getting their sizes corrected but will there be any stat changes like weight dmg etc?

marble pond
#

I'm confident there will be. Someone referred to the next patch as being "the balance patch", the size of those two are not the only balance changes being made. Many things are changing. I can't find a quote for you, it was buried in questions.

grave veldt
#

Ok ty I didn’t know if it was just the size or stats as well so

marble pond
#

It's not clear whether a size change implies a stat change, but it seems likely that a stat change will atleast happen in tandem with size changes for the next patch.

grave veldt
#

Makes sense

#

Ik speed will change to match the animation

marble pond
#

Mhm. It seems to me that changed size implies a stat change automatically, since in legacy our attacks were based on weight and if your weight or size changed, all the math changed. Some people argue that that isn't how it works anymore and everything has to be adjusted manually. That seems very tedious to me but 🤷‍♂️

grave veldt
#

Yea stats themselves don’t go with weight aka if stego does 1000 dmg as an example it’s flat dmg and weight doesn’t affect it

#

I can see weight playing factor in trample

#

Or not who knows

#

Guess we’ll see

frosty heron
#

What the hell is going on the balance feedback, everyone just wants buffs for the herbivores and nerfs for the carnivores, is not enough that Stego just needs 2 hits on a Carno and 1 shoots Utahs? What else you want Herbie mains? God mode? Being faster than an Utah? Omg just learn a bit of combat and that's it

grave veldt
#

It’s a lot more then just “herbi buff and carni nerf”

crystal wharf
#

@frosty heron yes, defend bugs because they allow you to kill things you shouldnt, fucking outstanding idea

frosty heron
#

The tail bug thing it's annoying and should be fixed alright, but apart of that I only see a lot of salt

grave veldt
#

Stego can’t even one shot a fully grown carno in the head

#

But carno and stego is somewhat ok it’s Utah vs stego that shows the issues

frosty heron
#

Play Stego and gain immortality, no predators

grave veldt
#

U seem pretty salty lol

crystal wharf
#

you dense motherfucker, carno weighs 2 tons, stego weighs 6, do the basic fucking math and consider that carno shouldnt solo stego

frosty heron
#

Just learn to fight fellas

grave veldt
#

Yea u

#

Lol

#

U think this is ok?

frosty heron
#

But neither Stego 1 shooting everything that gets close

grave veldt
#

I did read that but u act as if stego is like op or something

frosty heron
#

Stego is fine where is it, people talk like it's trash

grave veldt
#

4 semi capable Utah’s can take a stego easily

#

Is that ok?

frosty heron
alpine plover
#

It should be ok

frosty heron
#

You land a hit and Utah is good as dead

grave veldt
#

I’m tryna talk about pounce

marble pond
frosty heron
#

It's pretty ok

grave veldt
#

Actually yea lemme rephrase that

#

I mean is it ok for 4 pounces to kill a stego

alpine plover
#

Pounce is too high
But 4 Utahs should be able to take on a Stego
Since they are after all "capable"

frosty heron
#

Oh pounce, well pounce is devastating yeah but it's high risk/high reward mechanism for them

sinful cove
#

pounce is hardly high risk lol

grave veldt
#

No it’s low risk and high reward

#

Lol

frosty heron
#

I've clipped through Stegos doing pounce literally

sinful cove
#

its also socketed so its low skill, low risk, high reward

alpine plover
#

That's mostly because of bugs

golden coral
#

@frosty heron Its not about learning to fight, its about it being properly balanced for what it is. Carnos should not be hunting stegos at all, theyre small game hunters, specialized in that. Carnos have utahs, dryos, and hypsis as prey, as well as small tennos and stegos, and even other adult carnos and tennos should they want a bit more of a fight. Utahs should be hunting stegos, but four pounces is a little bit little, especially when bucking isn't much of a counter ,and it's not that difficult to hit a pounce, especially not in a pack. As such, adding a bit more to the pounce, such as demanding six pounces instead of four, to kill the stego, is not unreasonable to me, since the utah pack limit is six in the first place. I would also be fine with limiting stegos to only a pair, instead of a herd of four, since stego is a big animal and should maybe not come in herds.

alpine plover
#

Pounce needs punishment if missed

#

Honestly I somewhat agree with tuork, stego is in a good spot atm and the only reason it has issues is because of utahs broken pounce and dumb hitboxes. If the game worked fine and didnt have bugs stego would be a good spot but that isnt the case.

Pounce damage is simply just too high atm but I'm pretty sure that the devs know that the community wants a more bleed based pounce.

It's getting a buff when stronger carnis are added anyway

frosty heron
alpine plover
#

Stego is in a fine spot currently
Just some kinks that need to be ironed out
A week after release, people were saying that they were invincible

crystal wharf
#

because it was the most worked on and was originally gonna be ai

grave veldt
#

Carno isn’t supposed to be 1v1ing a stego

#

And when Rex ai and deino is in

#

Stego is gonna have actual preds

golden coral
# frosty heron Then I might ask this, why is Stego even in the game if it "Shouldn't have preda...

Honestly, it shouldn't be in, I'd be fine with it being out until it's properly fully powered, but the same goes for deino to be honest. But it would still have predators, just not the carno, but a utah pack, as it would always have. Me saying that carnos should not hunt it, is not the same as me saying nothing should. I did just say a full pack of utahs, six, which is not that difficult to keep up, should be a clear threat to a stego.

frosty heron
#

I will defend current pounce damage just by the fact the bleed now it's useless

#

Otherwise, when they work more on it they can reduce it

alpine plover
golden coral
#

We'll see how they balance out the deino for that matter, if it's going to be fully powered or not.

alpine plover
#

in time, after the updates

crystal wharf
#

bleed is far from useless, its very useful, just people dont know how to use it

alpine plover
#

Well yeah, people dont know how to use it, since almost no one got an explanation for how the mechanic even works

golden coral
#

But since we have a pack hunter that can hunt big prey, even a fully powered stego would be huntable, and at least I would be fine with 6-8 utah pack limits. I know Dondi said for a rex it woul be 15 utahs, but I'd rather not see that big packs in the first place.

marble pond
#

I trained as Stego vs. 5 utahs over and over the other night. I agree that the pounce is high risk if you're skilled at timing attacks, they lost 4 out of 5 members every hunt. But that 5th member killed me every time. We agreed that in a real match where the raptors were playing safe and trying to not die rather than just trying to deal as much damage as possible, it's a much harder fight against a Stego that knows what's up.

The fact that a large group of small dinosaurs can kamikaze into you to kill you... It's not great. It doesn't seem right. So there are some changes that need to be made.

crystal wharf
#

we got one, it affects stamina and regeneration of everything, its much more useful to kill things larger over a long period of time

golden coral
#

I don't know Hippo, I watched that, I'm not sure I can agree that pounce is high risk, they were simply not that good at it :p

alpine plover
#

Yes, but so many people never knew how to apply it and use any strats with it
Majority of the playerbase still doesnt know

frosty heron
alpine plover
#

Though that could come with it being new and all

crystal wharf
#

its not an instant "you loose because my dot is better" type battle anymore, its rewarding persistent hunting of slow moving animals that need stamina to attack

golden coral
#

But currently bleed is rarely needed, you'll kill stuff with raw damage long before

marble pond
alpine plover
grave veldt
#

I’m just gonna wait till update 3 since balance stuff will come out when it drops so

alpine plover
#

Which is why they need to make it bleed based lmaoi

grave veldt
#

Let’s see what happens

true ginkgo
frosty heron
#

I really hope the Croc makes a challenge to Stegos or even overpower them (they have double the HP) so time to turn around the table

#

It's slower tho, good luck

alpine plover
golden coral
alpine plover
#

Its a specialized semi aqautic predator, it should be weaker then other apexes

golden coral
#

Deino would obviously win in the water/ambush, but I mean, if a deino is waddling after a stego, it should probably not end well for the deino

true ginkgo
#

Deino should definitely beat stego. It's a lot bigger.

Unless it's stupid enough to literally just walk into stegos tail spam.

golden coral
#

But the stego should be faster on land Im guessing, so that should be fine, even if the deino could "tailtank" stego, more or less

gritty jolt
#

On land stego should win but obviously in the water Deino is ganna kill it

frosty heron
grave veldt
#

I mean deino wasn’t that slow on land

golden coral
grave veldt
#

It was slow but idk if it was slower then stego

golden coral
#

If you judge it by that, you don't know what you're talking about

alpine plover
#

I mean yeah since stego is faster it doesn't really need to fight denio, so I guess it is fair for deino to beat it

grave veldt
#

Yes if stego is faster then that’s cool

true ginkgo
#

Deino is the least of stegos balance problems, as stego can literally just run off.

The issue comes when things like allo and above are added, while carno and utah are taking stegos without too much difficulty.

golden coral
#

You know what the real funny thing is Turok? Stego in progression was an apex, and one of the more powerful one at times

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

Sure I don't know shit about the game but you do mate, I bet

grave veldt
#

Survival dinos we’re supposed to be balanced they weren’t tho

alpine plover
golden coral
frosty heron
golden coral
#

They should

#

Because stego was an apex before

alpine plover
#

I agree, stego shouldnt be a apex

grave veldt
#

Well stego kinda needs to be one otherwise it’s gonna be fodder for the other apexes

golden coral
#

No reason it couldn't be again

alpine plover
#

Stego was never a apex

golden coral
#

And no, there's no point in legacy stego unless you compare it to others

#

It was the end tier in progression

frosty heron
#

Nah, they even decreased the Stego size, be clear about it or just don't add such Dino to the game

golden coral
#

And could fight off rexes

alpine plover
#

It was a high tier herbivore meant to bridge the gap between apexes and mid tiers

true ginkgo
#

The question is should carno and utah beat things like acro, deino, and rex with similar difficulty to how they beat current stego?

golden coral
#

So I don't know, it was defenitely powerful enough back then

grave veldt
#

I still think stego should’ve been ungulatus not stenops

true ginkgo
golden coral
grave veldt
golden coral
#

So I don't know what stego you're thinking of that would be a "bridge"

alpine plover
#

Current stego is a bridge

true ginkgo
#

The evrima stego is (length and height) correct ungulatus size. Ignore weight as it's a food value stat and isn't accurate in game.

grave veldt
#

At least I was told it was max stenops

frosty heron
#

And I can say with 100% accuracy that when Rex comes out and yall find out it gonna murder Stego or other Herbie of same tier a lot of people gonna cry on the feedback

true ginkgo
#

The reason evrima stego looks tiny is because tenoto and carno have been upsized tons.

alpine plover
#

Stego is not an apex lmaoo

golden coral
alpine plover
golden coral
#

Oh okay

grave veldt
#

It doesn’t matter if stego isn’t an apex it still needs to be viable against the other apexes

true ginkgo
#

The question is later on when things like rex get added, what should stego do if a rex/giga walks over the hill?

golden coral
#

But in Evrima there's no "bridge" to anything though? Just survival, different things

alpine plover
#

Stego will run thats what it can do

grave veldt
#

It won’t

alpine plover
#

Stego should play defenseive against a rex/giga

grave veldt
#

Stego isn’t fast enough

true ginkgo
#

Stego can't run. It's super slow.

alpine plover
#

Speed buff

alpine plover
golden coral
#

Can't play defensive unless you can fight

alpine plover
#

Yes

grave veldt
golden coral
#

And sure, if you let stego run, then I'm okay with it not fighting rex/giga

frosty heron
golden coral
#

But if it can't run, it has to be able to do something

true ginkgo
#

Unless rex/giga is made to move artificially slowly, stego can't be made faster. It physically doesn't have the leg length of body shape.

It's essentially the magy problem.

grave veldt
#

Imagine a stego running away that would be funny to watch

frosty heron
alpine plover
golden coral
true ginkgo
#

Rex packs up to match your herd. gg

golden coral
#

You do not make a playable reliant on a group to survive

#

Bad idea, bad balancing

frosty heron
alpine plover
grave veldt
#

No u have to always look at an animal as a 1v1 u won’t always have ppl

golden coral
true ginkgo
#

Animals reliant on groups end up not popular and so unable to find groups.

golden coral
#

You balance 1v1

alpine plover
#

So, we really want Stego to solo rexes?
Doesn't anky have the same playstyle but will do it better?

golden coral
#

Why? One is a very hard tank, other is a defensive retreat animal

grave veldt
#

Yes but anky is slow as shit

true ginkgo
#

Stego should lose to rex if it tries to 'fight' it.

It should be able to make itself too dangerous to attack if it constantly tries to walk way, swinging its tail and forcing distance.

alpine plover
#

So essentially running/fighting

frosty heron
#

People just wants to defend themselves without any skill/learning curve on the game and that's also bad balance guys

golden coral
alpine plover
true ginkgo
#

Stego attacks - stego dies.

Stego tries to disengage and forcing distance with its tail - rex gives in

rex keeps pushing into the tail ignoring damage - rex dies

grave veldt
#

There’s supposedly stat changes when update 3 drops so let’s see what happens

alpine plover
#

I've actaully said stego v rex should be a hard fight for stego but people here said that was stupid

golden coral
#

Pretty much what Frumpkin is saying, something like that

alpine plover
golden coral
#

I mean, I shouldn't be dead on arrival if a rex sees me as stego, how you want to solve that, I don't really care about, as long as it's viable 1v1.

alpine plover
grave veldt
true ginkgo
#

But honestly stego has the magy problem but almost worse. At least magy can sit in a bush and hide.

Stego is slow af, massive, covered in huge bright plates, yet only adapted to fend off allo sized animals.

crystal wharf
#

rex needs to ambush in order to kill other apexes, thats just a fact

alpine plover
frosty heron
#

There's people asking for buffs for Tenonto when I've seen Tenonto 1v1 Carnos at their current state

grave veldt
#

stego can be tweaked magy tho idk what their gonna do with it

golden coral
# alpine plover That's what I wanted to hear It's a solution to any future "Magy issues"

I don't neccesarily need a stego to solo rexes, honestly, stego, like anky, is not at all designed as an offensive animal in the first place, so you shouldn't really think of going "aggro" on things, thats an easy way to get punished by a head bite I feel, I just want to be able to do something to survive, that is not dependent on being in a herd or similar.

true ginkgo
#

yeah at least the thagomiser can convincingly do damage and not look stupid.

but magy can hide easier than stego

golden coral
#

Or so I've been told at least

hollow canyon
#

I completely disagree with bleed having any use in the game. I play it a tonne and it's an extremely niche feature that has a marginal use at best. Its main use is for abusing new players in Evrima who think they have to sit down after getting bitten.

true ginkgo
#

How should I put it. I don't want stego and anky to 'solo kill' rexes. I want them to be able to prevent the rex killing them.

#

With the most likely outcome being both animals walking away from the fight.

grave veldt
#

i want to be an anky or stego and if a rex sees me im not instantly dead and I can walk away if i play it right

golden coral
#

Yeah, that's good enough for me too Frumpkin, be enough of a danger that if I'm aware of you, that you don't really want to do it, and just let me be on my way. Try again with an ambush!

grave veldt
#

anky will have an armor mechanic tho

#

ima wait till update 3 to see what changes

#

someone said something about 1800 kg carno?

#

idk if thats true or not tho

hollow canyon
#

Yes, that's the weight of irl Carno.

grave veldt
#

ok makes sense

#

guess they'll change teno with that

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is 1600kg iirc

grave veldt
#

oof

frosty heron
#

I'm not gonna mention again the "herds" thing because people seems to want to play solo Herbie and destroy anything that tries to hunt them, when carnivores with the proper pack limits can stay in the balance line

grave veldt
#

well luckily weight doesnt affect dmg anymore