balance-feedback-discussion

[crisp elbow]

I imagine bleed and possibly bone-break might be the Carno downfall. If something manages to get a good hit, running will only exacerbate the bleed and bone-break or at the least fracturing? Would affect speed if not general movement as a whole.

[vagrant inlet]

id rather their bite speed reduced
@granite ruin that’s much better

[twin portal]

If you can outsmart them, not the case. But. That requires people deciding to run and go stealth instead of relying on combat... which, can agree, Tenonto combat requires a TON of skill (and no frame dropping due to accuracy required), whereas Carno combat does not require skill. I played Carno for some time and tried playing Teno for a while, and I could easily land hits and charges as Carno, but as Teno, I haven't hit a tail slam once. Not once. And I'd stand with my butt to the carnivores and wait for them to come to me, and whether it was the middle of the tail or basically on my ass, the tail slam did not hit. On top of that, trying to run after carnivores biting them is basically useless, despite that ending up being my main form of defense since the other attacks need hella accuracy that would only work if the server was running extremely smoothly (which they're not).

[granite ruin]

Yep, atm carno is a low skill dino to play but fun in the process so play what you want. i enjoy teno but i feel i need to use way more tricks to beat a carno

[twin portal]

I really like Teno as a concept, but because of the way Teno's "tricks" are implemented - in that you need extreme accuracy in order to use them - Teno really isn't that "brawler herbivore" it was made out to be in the concepts. Even if they so much as allowed Teno to claw attackers while running (like a big cat clawing at the heels of prey, or like deer / equines trying to trample a predator), it would make Teno a much more viable combatant. I have no idea how much damage the bite does, but it's barely anything compared to the claw attack I'm sure.

[hollow canyon]

That's actually quite funny because I've hit the tailslam far more often than the charge. I rarely ever missed the tailslam attack unless the Carno was teleporting meanwhile I had only one successful charge as a Carno with which I just outright finished off the Tenonto I was fighting. Other than that I seemingly hit the charge on some other occasions but I haven't noticed it do literally anything - the Tenontos didn't stagger, they didn't get stunned nor knocked over despite the auditory feedback suggesting that they got hit with the charge - they were still prancing around as if nothing happened. Then again to actually get hit by the charge the Tenonto has to be either asleep or get ambushed by the Carno I can't imagine getting hit with it in an open fight.

[crisp elbow]

With servers how they currently are, I'm guessing far more people are missing rather than hitting.
All well and good for you getting the hits in, but the problem is the majority are having issues. Just because you're somehow getting good FPS and no teleporting dinosaurs (and seemingly bad Carno players are fighting you) doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

[hollow canyon]

Nah, my fps drops a lot around the swamp area, I've also mentioned teleporting being a big issue for the Tenonto(probably the biggest one). The game simply needs to get fixed though rather than have the poor performance affect the balance.

Other than that I'd like Tenonto to have the ability to use the claw swipe as soon as you let go off the movement keys, I find it quite baffling that it takes such a long time before you can use the swipe if you were moving. Those are pretty much my two main issues with this animal.

[twin portal]

Testing it - you pretty much have to wait one second after releasing your fingers from the keys to do the claw attack as Teno. Your tenonto appears to stop moving at half a second, but you need to wait the full second before you can claw-swipe.

[hollow canyon]

That's pretty much my experience as well.

[twin portal]

You still kick after stopping for one second.

... I guess it's camera based, if looking forward even at two seconds I'm kicking not slamming.

yeah you HAVE to be looking behind you to slam

[hollow canyon]

I find this extremely annoying and that's probably my biggest innate issue with how this dinosaur works(other than the fact that it performs relatively much worse than any other dinosaur if there are issues with ping and stability).

I haven't had any issues with kicking and slamming, it's just the claw swipe that I find problematic for the aforementioned reasons.

[cloud urchin]

@half plover ...but herbivores play fight as young just the same as carnivores, and they both develope their own sense of combat. Knowing how to fight does not stop someone with a numbers advantage from tiring you out, it forces to waste that much more energy on multiple opponents. All those martial art movies featuring one man armies are not what one would call...accurate. The reality is that they would get dog piled and ground pound. Ground Pound is game over, it's why you don't use Brazilian Jujitsu in a street fight. You may butterfly lock (apologise to any martial artist out there) one guy, but his friends can run around the corner and curbstomp your skull. If a herbivore in the wild focuses to much on one enemy, it's vulnerable to another. Having to switch back and forth between multiple enemies is just going to make it exhausted because of course it is.

@upper basin I will keep spreading it on a weekly to bi monthly rate until the devs implement it or tell me to shut up because they will implement it.

[sonic grail]

I doubt they'll have a separate slider for water sfx. People will turn the water and rain sfx off, making footprints and dinosaur sounds easier to hear. The point of loud rain and waterfalls is a sound masker

[modest badge]

@half plover https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6TnWW1s4hE

Also, just because you don't know how to punish attacks does not mean all herbivores need a severe nerf.

[cloud urchin]

@wild cove Looking back at my original post, I was a bit shamed to get so many likes for a badly written essay and was meaning to edit. But you basically did that for me so cheers.

Yes. These hard to reach areas do not eliminate the needs and risk of being a juvi, just mitigate the unreasonable situations that require luck more than anything else. I tried this on the steam forums months ago with a few other versions, something about thorn bushes, and may update that info here.

The best part is that seamless growth will make it so that we don't have to immediately buff the juvies in speed because they will have a better chance at defending themselves from small sized animals.

[twin portal]

@wild cove I agree with having more hidey-holes / "mini biomes" for juvis, but wanted to mention that you can reliably hide in foliage as a juvi. All you need to do is wallow in mud, and then run into the dense forest areas -- wallowing erases your footprints, and being so small, it's easy to just lie down in a good bush and have nothing able to track you until you have to get up for food / water again. :Y

Of course, this requires sticking close to water sources -- which is a good idea as a juvi anyway. It's sadly semi-AFK growing, but super easy to do even in highly populated areas. (Just riskier the more chance something has to spot you.)

[wild cove]

Its possible to reliably hide using mud, bushes, and not moving much but I find it more often than not the main reason it works is that a lot of carni players are constantly on the move and don't pay attention to every single bush they pass, so you don't tend to run into them super often, but when you do run into them and they find you its usually instant death.

The key to surviving through juvie and sub-adult (and late juvie/sub adult is usually when you die the most because you're just big enough that its harder to hide, and just small enough that most counterplay is ineffective) almost always comes down to not being found at all in the first place, but once someone actually finds you, you usually just end up their lunch with no real method of counterplay except run and hope the other person isn't skilled or lucky enough to catch you. Which 8 times out of 10 they do because you're slower, can't fight back, and can only hide visually but not actually hide anywhere that physically blocks being eaten lol

Not totally disagreeing of course tho lol

[desert wave]

@median quest „sprint swimming“ is already in the game for every animal

[cedar shore]

Bucking does not need a buff. Its good enough as it is rn.

[alpine plover]

No.

Pouncing requires a very minimal skill since the change.

Bucking needs to be buffed.

[cedar shore]

Yes but when you eventually do buck of a utah its easy to instantly kill it

Since they get knocked down on the ground and cant do anything for like 1-2 sec

[alpine plover]

or, he just jumps down with low stamina and gets away with free 4 sec of pounce dmg.

[cedar shore]

Well there is a frame where you can hit it even if he jumps off. That rarely happens though as the current buck (depending on dino) Knocks it off before it does like 25-30% dmg

[alpine plover]

I was on both side. I was Utah/Carno/Stego. I'm sorry, my experience is that pouncing is really easy, and there is barely any counterplay. Especially if the utah isn't mentally retarded.

[cedar shore]

Instead of buffong bucking i think pounce should be locational, so you cant directly pounce a dinos head

Adds a bit more skill and coubterplays with pounce

[alpine plover]

it has a socket system. Thats the problem

well, not really a problem

it's just makes pouncing easy af imo.

[cedar shore]

Well if bucking were to get buffed even further there would hardly any reason to pounce at all as they would fall off waay to fast

tenanto allready exeeds at bucking for example

[alpine plover]

Pouncing is currently the most overpowered thing.

You know what it takes to kill a stego/carno?

2 utah with minimal experience.

[cedar shore]

No i dont feel like it is now that the bucking got fixee

[alpine plover]

Because I assume, you don't know how to use pounce properly.

[cedar shore]

If you predict well and play smart you can easily kill 2 utahs trying to kill you. I have

[alpine plover]

I killed too, that doesn't mean it's not overpowered.

[cedar shore]

When they get knocked off or jump off there is a frame where you can hit them easily

[alpine plover]

I will tell you an easy way to defeat a carno. Jump at both sides, let him buck, you gonna still put in 3-4 sec of pounce dmg. You jump off at 10-15%ish stamina. Run away/trot and bait, try to bite 1-2 then when you reach half- 3/4 stam, pounce again. It's incredible easy

same with stego.

[alpine plover]

Maybe if the game would work properly.

[cedar shore]

There is no way you wont get knocked off before loosing 85% of your stam

[alpine plover]

what are you talking about?

You get knocked off when you lose all your stam.

You don't even know how bucking works, yet you argue about it?

That's more than enough for me, feel free to disagree, but I can't take you seriously after that statement, have a nice day

[cedar shore]

I didnt know that made it so that buckibg drains stamina, regardeless ive taken on 4+ utahs as a teno with ease due to buck

Doent make my points invalid

[alpine plover]

it does.

[cedar shore]

I have gone up against 4+ utahs as a teno and killed all of them due to how good its buck is.

They all played well

[alpine plover]

I will press an X for doubt

if you managed to kill 4 utahs as a tenonto.

None of them were good.

[desert wave]

Ehh currently killing Utahs as teno is pretty easy so it is reasonably possible

[alpine plover]

avoid tail, u won already.

[cedar shore]

Easier said than done

The tail has really good range and it hits pretty fast

When utahs get bucked off its easy to tail slam one of them. Getting tail slammed by a teno pretty much means instant death

[alpine plover]

getting bucked off is the first sign of a utah being below average

but honestly, maybe bucking doesn't need buff, as most utah players are so garbage they can miss even with this socket system lmao.

But good players are op with it.

[cedar shore]

Well good players should be able to do well so..

[granite ruin]

tail slams are easy to predict therefor avoid, if you dont avoid it thats on the utah (unless its lag)

pounce itself is ez free damage

[alpine plover]

^^^^

Thx god.

[alpine plover]

You don't get my point.

Good players will do without pounce being so easy to execute.

[granite ruin]

ive played alot and if i see a teno and im behind/side of it ill expect a slam

pounce should be punished for hitting the head/tail, shouldnt be this easy

[cedar shore]

yea they should make pounce more locational instead of making bucking more effective

[alpine plover]

@prime sandal what the hell are you talking about?

[alpine plover]

It was locational before, but it has many issues.

The problem is, that you guys don't know what are you talking about, and this isn't offensive by any mean. It's just how it is.

[cedar shore]

Well perhaps try fix thoose issues? Just buffing buck is such a lazy way to balance out something. Landing a pounce should be rewarding and not lead to getting bucked off in 3 sec

[alpine plover]

I can't tell if you are being srs or not.

[cedar shore]

I am. im just making a lot of typos since i am typing on mobile

[alpine plover]

Landing a pounce is one of the easiest thing to do. It's basically a free damage. Also bucking should/is drain stamina from the prey, but also drains the stamina of the Utahraptor. You know what to do if you don't want it to buck it off after 4 sec? (wich is still 4 sec of free damage) How about juking your prey and actually put some work into the fight/hunt?

If you srsly think that pouncing is hard rn, I'm done with you and done with all of this.

[hollow canyon]

Pounce is the easiest special ability to hit in the whole goddamn game. Also - when i kept latching onto a Carno until it finally bucked me off I still had enough stamina to run away into the forest despite the fact that the game got me to drop onto the ground. Moreover every single time I bucked a Utah off it also had enough stamina to keep on sprinting around.

[cedar shore]

juking isnt an option for any dino with low mobility. Instead they can try to face the utah pouncibg and stop them that way. I want it to be harder to land a pounce instead of it beeing easier to get knocked off

[hollow canyon]

Not to mention the whole thing with Utah being unable to move after disengaging the pounce simply isn't true either. It can run off pretty much right after it let go off the animal it was pouncing.

[cedar shore]

yes but there is a small frame where you can land a hit. Good players know how to use it.

[alpine plover]

juking isnt an option for any dino with low mobility. Instead they can try to face the utah pouncibg and stop them that way. I want it to be harder to land a pounce instead of it beeing easier to get knocked off
@cedar shore utah needs to juke, not the prey.

Bait attacks/juke attacks.

But I won't bothet explaining anymore.

Not to mention the whole thing with Utah being unable to move after disengaging the pounce simply isn't true either. It can run off pretty much right after it let go off the animal it was pouncing.
@hollow canyon let it go.

[hollow canyon]

Pounce is just a broken ability - one of the low risk high reward skills in the game. Even if you miss this - nothing bad happens to you.

[cedar shore]

its not that overpowered though. Its easy to buck off an utah and hit it before it does serious dmg. even if it jumps of.

[hollow canyon]

If Tenonto misses its tailslam it's in a lot of trouble because it can only slam 10 times before its stamina is all gone - for comparison a full pounce does around 4 times more damage than a tailslam.

[cedar shore]

Teno can only slam 10 times if you do it all at once. If you space them out more it will consume less stamina. Like with utah jump

[alpine plover]

Sky, you literally don't understand what we are saying

[cedar shore]

Do you understand what im trying to say?

[hollow canyon]

I haven't noticed the slams costing progressively more stamina and I appeared to run out after about 10 even if I used them sparingly. Utahs pounce is a far better ability out of the two.

[alpine plover]

Yes, we understand. But the problem is that you are wrong, and also don't understand what we are saying.

[cedar shore]

and how am i wrong.?

[alpine plover]

I explained it 3 times.

I'm done

[hollow canyon]

You want to buff the most broken and overpowered ability in the game.

[cedar shore]

I have never said buff pounce

[hollow canyon]

You said nerf the bucking - which is an obvious indirect buff to pounce.

[prime sandal]

Hahahaha this is a good read

[cedar shore]

I want it to be locational, which is a nerf

[hollow canyon]

Yesn't - because the pounce automatically transports you onto the side of the dinosaur no matter what you hit.

[alpine plover]

^

Socket.

[hollow canyon]

Making it locational does nothing if you hit the body by default no matter where you land the pounce.

[prime sandal]

That's just because the game is shit

[hollow canyon]

No, that's because Utah's been given too much free reign - it should drop onto the ground when it doesn't hit the side of the prey animal as it did for most of the time Evrima was out.

[cedar shore]

what? When i say i want pounce to be locational i want pounce to fail if you hit a spot that an utah wouldnt be able to grip

[cedar shore]

thats exactly what i want

[prime sandal]

These guys can't see beyond their own noses @cedar shore, you're wasting your braincells arguing with them

[hollow canyon]

That's not what locational mean - locational damage means that you deal damage based on what location on the animal you hit - Utah can pounce only sides meaning that it always does the same damage.

[cedar shore]

ok

[prime sandal]

I think you should latch on to the head if you jump from the front, thereby getting headshot damage.

[cedar shore]

nah latching onto the head wouldnt be that good of an idea for obvious reasons

same goes with stegos tail

[prime sandal]

Developers probably can't code it either

[hollow canyon]

It's not the coding that's the issue, it's the animation

[cedar shore]

Idk hope they can. Im no game developer so i cant say much on how hard it would be to implement

animation??

[hollow canyon]

And no, if you jump at fron onto most of the animals you should be dead within 1-2 seconds

Yes, the animation

[prime sandal]

I mean, the game is like 5 years old, and we're in alpha still 😂

[hollow canyon]

If you put the Utahraptor that's latching onto the front of an animal it would be both clipping and hanging in the air.

It would require the animation to look differently for it to latch onto a head of e.g. Tenonto

[cedar shore]

how about it just knocks you down like pouncing on a tree.

thats all i want. simple

[hollow canyon]

That's what it used to do, I have no idea why this was changed

[prime sandal]

Also, on the subject of nerfing/buffing pounce/buckle, keep in mind that there are literally places where you can't use it

[cedar shore]

As far as i can remember it didnt knock you down. You could pounce its head but doing so you could get bit

[prime sandal]

So just stick to areas where you can't be pounced or have trees close to knock them off

[hollow canyon]

It did, I got knocked down on more than one occassion if I tried pouncing the head between June and ~October.

Duh, because it makes perfect sense balance wise for Carnos to deal with Utahs better in the middle of a forest rather than out in the open.

[cedar shore]

Carnos suck in forests though

[hollow canyon]

Exactly

which is why an argument that that's where they should fight Utahs to win is... bad

Same goes for Tenontos, they are about as agile as Carnos

[cedar shore]

i guess thats fair

[cedar shore]

way more agile imo

they turn a lot faster on the spot and while running

[prime sandal]

Yeah but Carnos can run away, or go to a swamp

[hollow canyon]

They are most definitely not way more agile than Carnos, I play them both Tenonto is hardly a very agile animal. I had other people who were testing the agility of both tell me that Tenontos are outright worse at turning than Carnos

Yea, naturally the most natural predator of Utah should be leaving it in peace because Utah shouldn't be able to be killed either out in the open nor in the forest. As for the swamp - Utah also swims faster than a Carno.

[cedar shore]

Well tenos dont have to kill the carno, but injure it enough so it will leave you be.

and standing in swamps will be a thing of the past in the next update

[prime sandal]

I was still talking about the pouncing

[cedar shore]

oh right

yea swamps are op rn

But not for long

[hollow canyon]

@north garden Both Utah and Tenonto swim faster than Carno, the latter one swims significantly faster than a Carno. Matter of fact the swimming speeds go something like this in the game: Tenonto>Utah>Carno>=Stego
Hypsi might be the only one faster than Tenonto but I haven't tested them next to one another. I also haven't checked Dryo's swimming speed.

[cedar shore]

Yea it is Hypsi>Tenanto>Dryo>Utah>Carno>Stego

[chrome marsh]

dryo is iirc faster swimmer than tenon

[cedar shore]

is it?

[north garden]

Could it be lag or the teleportation issue that I've been experiencing then? Because every single time I swim it's bad news for me. I don't doubt it's my issue if so

[hollow canyon]

Potentially but a better question is whether you were fully grown - the bigger you are the faster you swim.

[north garden]

I was fully grown at the times I'm referencing, yes : )

So was the carno, or they were at least almost adult

Thank you for confirming it, though!

[wispy valley]

Juvie carno swim speeds are absolute ass. I hate it

[vagrant inlet]

Good thing it’s not an aquatic animal

[cloud urchin]

@wispy valley So what you're saying is Hold Click to Punish Poor Pounce Positioning? I love.

[wispy valley]

Yeah

And flick your camera wherever you wanna yeet the pouncer

Or just grab it if you're a huge sauropod, Rex, Giga, Spino, or Acro

Everything should have some sort of counter.

Pounce has no counter right now.

[sinful cove]

We should be able to fling utahs into other utahs

[wispy valley]

I wanna do what Reptar did to that mouse and smack a Utah into trees as a T-Rex

[vagrant inlet]

Just run into the trees

[orchid coyote]

Also when a Carno sprints into the water is has a little more speed. because of the speed at which it runs into it. That might have been why you got caught?

[chrome marsh]

[north garden]

Potentially, yeah : O
Thing is, they kept pace with my sprint swim speed once they dashed in on some occasions, which is why I believe it's just a lag thing. Some other people told me it's happened to them, too, so it's a weird one...
I know better than to fight one in the water because they can still bite with the strength of being on land (which I think is downright stupid), so I always try to just swim away as fast as possible and wallow to hide. I've grown 6 Tenontos and all of them died in the swamp in deep water to Carnos that swim better than Michael Phelps

[orchid coyote]

Lmao. I do think that biting in water should cause a significant stamina drop though on each bite-

[north garden]

I absolutely agree!

[hollow canyon]

@warm mesa Z-walk actually did decrease the bleeding in the legacy. You were losing as much hp to bleed while walking as you did standing or crouching. In general I'm also in favour of making bleed drain HP again. I think the current iteration of Evrima's bleed is kind of worthless and going in the un-fun direction at the same time. The main issue with the bleed in the legacy was that... there was simply too much of it. Every animal applied an enormous amount of bleed with each attack, if the numbers for bleed were lowered on top of having the mud wallowing to stop the bleeding(and preferably some other additional ways). I think it would be better than either the legacy's bleed or the current Evrima bleed. Either this or have bleed work as a powerful tracking tool where if animal is bleeding a lot they leave a specific trail visible while scenting almost as if they were carrying a body. This would temporarily disappear when clotted by mud and of course it would disappear altogether when bleeding goes down to a certain level.

[cloud urchin]

@hollow canyon I'd prefer we had bleed as implied: A Direct Stamina Counter. Would kill if your stam pool was overtaken completely.

Not as it is in practice: An Indirect Stamina Nerf. Attacks a completely different health pool with side consequences to stamina.

Bleed in Legacy is fine, but I'd rather try something new besides the same old: Drain Health.

Especially when there's a number of things that are going to do the exact same thing.

[cloud urchin]

@warm mesa That doesn't really sound different. Bite something once and it just stands there to avoid losing health. Oh sure, now it loses no health, but it is basically the same thing. And unless you're having it so that victims take dmg when quick turning, than the bleed will likely have to be ramped up so that it actually matters when you do get them to move.

Bleed, in Legacy, wasn't God Tier Aids. Some playables had absolutely horrendous bleed resist and heal, but the bleed itself was fine. And it made for playstyles that can only truly be enjoy by certain playables, particularly the ones who couldn't just brute force their targets. Granted not every playable was appropriately Balanced for this-especially Sub Rex-but the bleed itself was fine.

[sinful cove]

Deinosuchus shouldnt be climbing trees, maybe megalania can scale up some trees when he comes, but a 10k pound croc trying to haul its fat ass up a tree would look wonky as hell

Komodos, the closest living thing we have to mega though, have some climbing capabilities

[warm mesa]

komodos are pretty good climbers in their juvenile stages

juvi mega hunting or being hunted by herreras in trees?

s tier

[gaunt jackal]

and super op deino allredy has water for food, protection and to be abel to kill drinking utahs, tenos, carnos and stegos sometimes if they dont check before drinking so to be abel to kill hypsis in trees and after a while heras will just make denio a go to dino for newibs who cant hunt and will just hope on finding a adult taht will give them food and protection whos only competion will be carno and utahs groups and other denios

[alpine plover]

i think its not about climbing trees and staying on them

[pseudo cypress]

These are also a lot smaller than Deino, and the fence makes climbing easier

[alpine plover]

Deino could not climb the tree like Megalania, but yes hold on them, like on the photos

but as consequense, it could waste a lot of stamina

making him stop climbing the tree and go on land

[cyan radish]

I feel that bleed feels underpowered because we don’t have any “bleeder” carnivores in yet. Carno and Utah have not been known as strong bleeders previously either.

[sinful cove]

He's leaning on it more than climbing it anyway, but deino is way too big to even look right doing that

[cloud urchin]

@sharp isle Shameless plug, but why not just remove the limit to grazing and instead limit the amount of grazing you can do in one area so that you're forced to explore for new pastures.

[wary otter]

@sharp isle New plants are coming in the diet system update, have some patience lol

[silent dew]

@sharp isle the reason why stego doesnt get full from almost zero by eating a single bush or flower is as simple as one could think... its just to massive and has a much bigger tummy than say a hypsi. if you're a big dino you need more food, i hope that made sense

[sharp isle]

Thanks for the feedback I've been struggling tk grow a stego due to the lack of food and water as I don't want to be near a swamp filled with utars canos and soon Denis can't wait to see thd new plants may there be lots of them. I just enjoy walking round the map and appricating the bueaty of it the details and the ambiance.

[cloud urchin]

@wooden jungle ...can't sprinting targets just Dodge a Utah?

[wooden jungle]

That’s sounds extremely hard to do unless you are maybe a Carno, Galli, or something faster than it @cloud urchin

And there is also the idea of running towards the Utah... it just doesn’t make sense

And especially since you need to be at least twice the size of a Utah for the Utah to jump on you

I appreciate the response but I just don’t know if that fixes the problem

[silent dew]

Things that are already on the dev's list for fix and tuning:
✅ Christian_'s concern

[cloud urchin]

@wooden jungle that's the point though, there's no reason why a Utah shouldn't be able to Pounce on a Target that is either Slower (Stego or Tenonto) or Smaller (Hypsi or Dryo).

To make Utah's Pounce Hard just make it Hard. Or, in more detail, make the Pounce a mini game in it of itself and set the Reward for Pouncing after the action is completed. So a Utah Pounces Animal X, but it has to go through a mini game of sorts where it has to maintain its balance and deal dmg over. Now obviously, Small Animals just get fucked if a Utah Pounces them. Bigger animals, on the other hand, have a genuine chance of knocking the Utah off. Add in a few things like making Pounce locational dependent so they aren't just teleported to the middle of the body, and even a Utah Pouncing onto a spot with another Utah knocks both of them off.

Matter of fact, take a look at this discussion we were having on the Steam Forum: https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/2999926461247905452/

[lean shoal]

no utah would not realistically be any where close to carnos speed. if we were to make this games animals 100% accurate then giga would be able to run everything down and rex would be a walking behemoth of legacy giga trotting.

on top of that carno is meant to be fast and hunt small game. utah is supposed to take down prey larger than itself in packs.

[wheat field]

Utah was 25mph-30mph Carno was 30mph-35mph

[lean shoal]

making utah faster than carno is the same idea as making trike faster than theri.

[wheat field]

I didn’t say we should make carno slower

Nor should we make Utah faster

[lean shoal]

im not saying you did im just saying that the thought process of the post that was made is confusing.

for them saying make utah faster than carno.

[wheat field]

Utah was exceptional fast but not faster than carno with its short burst of extreme speed

[lean shoal]

if they gave actual balance reasoning aside from i want it to be faster i could see some sort of valid response.

[wooden jungle]

so people can understand this better: utah is usain bolt at 5'5" | carno is usain bolt at 6'5" usain bolt at 6'5" is going to win 10/10 times with bigger and stronger legs

utah is still fast because he is still usain bolt, but because he's 5'5" he would need to run twice as hard to beat carno which is impossible.

[hollow canyon]

Real-life Utahraptor was not "exceptionally fast" by any stretch of the imagination. Its estimated running speed is somewhere in the range of 30km/h, that's about as fast as Giganotosaurus in the legacy. It would be absolute fodder to half of the roster due to this. Carnotaurus on the other hand potentially reached speeds of over 50km/h.

As for the game balance - Utah doesn't have to be faster, it's already very fast. Carnotaurus is a small game hunter that operates in the plains. If you get caught by one out in the open as a Utah you should be dying to it unless you can make your way into dense foliage relatively quickly while avoiding the attacks from the Carnotaurus - which most definitely can be done(and even kept up for quite some time if you're good at dodging). Utah constitutes a part of Carno's menu, it's natural that it's going to be killed in a 1v1 scenario when the environment favours Carno. This match up is overall pretty well balanced and neither of the two needs any changes.

[alpine plover]

Carno is meant to bully smaller carnivores (including youngsters of the same species)

[warm rampart]

Also if Utah outsped carno then that just makes no one play carno

[wary otter]

Yeah, apart from that the Isle isnt really based on realism lol

[warm rampart]

It feels more of a mix of realism and made up stuff

[glass crag]

I think the Carno/Utah speeds are ok as they are. I do think that the only thing that needs to be tweaked is the Carno’s ability to turn when running. A Utah should be able to run rings around a Carno when it comes to turning.

[wary otter]

Yeah, there shouldnt be any Carnos baiting out Stego attacks lol, his turn radius really could need rework, or maybe the time he needs to stop after running

[hollow canyon]

If you nerf Carno's turning you might as well just delete it outright, I've already been running in circles around Carnos as a Utah. If this dinosaur is meant to hunt small game in the plains then it needs to turn at least well enough to be able to hit them once in a while, otherwise you're turning it into the same thing it was in the legacy where its ability to kill the small tiers was utterly negligible to the point where you could solo a Carno with a Dilo just by sidestepping every time it ran at you. That should not be a thing.

[lean shoal]

i think if anything of carno needs a nerf its its drift. it should not coem to a full stop in less than a second with no arms to balance itself moving at such speed. if anything it should just slide half a body length more after it trys to drift making it harder to fake out hits and bait in turn making it easier to juke.

[wary otter]

Yeah the drift is what im talking about rather than the turning speed

[alpine plover]

Utah would be like 10x better than carno if it was faster, the pounce and turn is what makes it good. Carno is fast but not extremely good at turning like a torpedo

Although

I still don't get why carno has a drift

[lean shoal]

mostly because legacy carno had a hard time fighting without it.

[wooden jungle]

@bold plinth if they add apexes now, without the diet system, everyone will play as them and AFK grow them. It would turn into rex simulator like in Legacy. I strongly disagree. I find the dinosaurs fairly balanced right now

[bold plinth]

you could be right i been playing the isle since forever i may just be tired of waiting on this game to be done

[wooden jungle]

i have been playing it since 2016, i feel your pain. We just need to be patient, stop trying to take over the game, and just play it while the devs just do their thing

[alpine plover]

We are all tired on waiting.

But, at least we are getting updates

[lean shoal]

adding apex carnivores now will just mean a lot of adult apexes running around

stego is at least slow and really defensive with its tail being its only real source of damage.

[cloud urchin]

@bold plinth This just shifts the problem of current carnivores onto the new carnivores. Just keep the current pace and update the game with herbivores that are rewarding to kill but challenging to hunt.

[lean shoal]

i can see pachy being a good example of that in the future. it wont be killing carno but i can surely see one take out a utah. its likely to be hard to hunt but a pretty good kill.

because if you screw up you get a fracture or killed.

[sinful cove]

Why shouldn't carno twoshot a utah?

[hollow canyon]

It doesn't even twoshot a Utah except when it lands two headshots in a row. Which generally doesn't happen all that often. Carno itself apparently dies to a singleheadshot from a Stego and yet I've never seen a Carno get one-hit-ko'd by a Stego so far.

[sinful cove]

Carno is supposed to hunt prey smaller than itself so it should get oneshot by steg's spikes lol, and same reason it should also twoshot utah

Ive also seen teno take like 3 hits from steg it's dumb

[hollow canyon]

It's fine for the Stego to oneshot a Carno with a headshot I think. My point is that headshots don't happen that often.

[sinful cove]

A bite to the head from carno should have utah on the brink of death honestly

[mellow zenith]

Why utah bite is so slow ? Carno/stego bite faster than a raptor

It seems weird to me

[hollow canyon]

Because the bite of the Utah isn't really its main way of dealing damage. Utah also suffers of Legacy's Carno syndrome

You actually need to input the attack command slightly before you reach the target

[mellow zenith]

So, before 85% grow the utah is really at a huge disavantage

That's... meh

[hollow canyon]

It is to a certain extent but you can make it work even then by using its superior agility. I've gone medieval on two juv Carnos, bodying one of them and causing the other one to run for its life as a freshly spawned Utah yesterday. You just need to know how to input the attack before reaching your target and run around them attacking from different directions.

Utahs ability to turn on a dime in full sprint is nothing to scoff at.

[mellow zenith]

I agree

[hollow canyon]

I did resign from playing Utah on this patch after losing two in a row to the pounce bug that gets you suspended in the air.

[mellow zenith]

Btw the alt bite has been remove ?

[hollow canyon]

I think it's still in? I just never use it.

[mellow zenith]

I know its not really good but i can't manage to make it work

Its alt+rmb right ?

[hollow canyon]

It worked the last time I tried using it but it was quite a while ago.

Nah, alt + lmb iirc

[mellow zenith]

Ok i will try it

[hollow canyon]

go for it

[mellow zenith]

It dont work for me, i don't know why :/ @hollow canyon

[hollow canyon]

The alternative attack? Have you tinkered with the controls at all?

[mellow zenith]

No

[hollow canyon]

I think this might be a bug then, I will ask about this in the discussion.

[mellow zenith]

And there's no ALT keybind in the control

So that's weird

[hollow canyon]

It is weird indeed, I think you might want to post about this in Evrima bug discussion or troubleshooting, I think it should work since it doesn't something might be wrong.

[stark knoll]

ive heard other people talk about this, lets go to #723294838610722847

[swift flower]

@alpine plover i completaly agree with you it should ve able to escape any threat rn in water because it has ben proven that it lived in swamps and was a good swimmer

[cloud urchin]

@alpine plover if Tenonto was an excellent swimmer, with say something along the lines of an excellent swim speed, the 2 feet engagement would be a buff. It can begin swimming almost as soon as it reaches water, even shallow water. I don't mind the bipedal option, but maybe stop there.

[torpid bane]

@tender hatch Evrima will become more popular as more playables come into othe game as of right now it has no variety the lag is terrible and the optimzation sucks its pretty much unplayable

[tender hatch]

To each their own

For me it's not as bad as you said

[rapid charm]

variety is something that evrima has wdym, every dino is uniquie

unlike legacy

[slim dragon]

True, there are actually more different gameplays with 5 dinos in Evrima (dryo doesn't exit) than in the entire legacy experience

[cloud urchin]

@rapid charm He means more than 5 dinosaurs. Legacy's playables were unique enough and there was over four times as many to pick from. Evrima needs to up its roster to fully put Legacy to rest, if only in spirit.

[desert wave]

Wdym there are more than 5 Dinos in evrima

[swift flower]

@edgy basalt LOVE your idea maybe they could also smell a little different:))

[sinful cove]

somebody suggested before that cannibal dinos could fade into a piebald skin too, with patches gradually forming. maybe eventually they'd go full albino with the evil red eyes lol

imo things like melanism and leucism should be rare nesting mutations though, maybe related to the parents' affinity

[edgy basalt]

Ye that was me. And thats wut i was saying. Meant albino. So every1 can see it from the distance

[sinful cove]

Think it was someone else a while back, albino cannibal dinos seem to be a pretty common idea, it could work with either albino or piebald or piebald morphing into albino tbh. Melanism just doesn't really fit well as a cannibalism feature, as albinos are just unhealthier and creepier all around so they fit the vibe. Albino skin also makes it harder to hide

[alpine plover]

I just hope that cera is good. I really hope that they don’t just toss it in with it being able to be killed by 2 pouncing Utah’s like carno basically is and able to be easily run down and rammed over by carnos for an easy kill

[hollow canyon]

You generally shouldn't be dying to 2 Utahs as a fully grown adult Carnotaurus. While 2 really good Utahs that know what they're doing and are cooperating well can take down a Carno this can occur only if you continue the engagement after knowing that you're being outgunned. In normal circumstances Carno can survive an encounter with more than 2 Utahs at once.

I don't think Cerato should do significantly worse than that. At the same time I think it shouldn't be winning against a Carno, which is close to twice the size of Cerato, out in the open. I believe that Ceratosaurus should be maneuverable enough to move through the jungle with great ease when compared to Carno and Tenonto and it should pose a significant threat to both of the aforementioned in such circumstances.

[alpine plover]

Two Utah’s pounce at once can drop an adult carno to 25% health is what I was saying before. And if there are more your screwed unless you simply run. I’m just saying I don’t want cera to be a dinosaur that’s completely incapable of fighting back against Utah packs and an adult charging carno. Which will most definitely be able to run down a cera with ease

[hollow canyon]

Two Utahs pulling off a full pounce on a fully grown Carno just outright kill it. You should never let them get a full pounce off though. And yea I hope Cerato's viable as well, Cera and Dilo are the two dinosaurs I'm most interested with. Still I don't see a problem even if Carno is more powerful and faster than Cerato simply because the latter can use the environment to its advantage.

[alpine plover]

I’m interested in Herrera and cera, I’m worried about both being viable, I know Herrera is supposed to be able to climb and cera will be able to eat anything and have extra swim speed. But in certain situations given the stats they want too, both will be 100% defenseless

[alpine pond]

Cera is my favorite dino thanks to Legacy, even though I wish they had been better in Legacy. So I'm also hoping they can be awesome in EVRIMA.

[tough orchid]

Verrrrry hyped for Cera. I hope its turn while sprinting will be great as it was in legacy

[alpine plover]

If it is out maneuvering carno should be easy, also it’s just basic pivot turn should be insanely fast with the ability to attack doing that. Or have a bite attack that can turn them in a 180

[tough orchid]

like teno and utah yea

[cloud urchin]

@cedar kettle If you manage to miss a stationary target, let's not punish the target.

[sinful cove]

Utah already sockets onto the side of targets. It is already way, WAY too easy to “aim” pounce

[cedar kettle]

what i meant wast @cloud urchin and @sinful cove was that it should only work on stationary targets. Because as of now, if a utah misses, it sort of teleports onto its target instead of missing.

[cloud urchin]

Well...that still sounds like we're rewarding someone who can't aim.

[silent dew]

yet the "Utah Lock-on" alone, encouraged me to instantly hit the ❌.

the entire game is about practice, so you'd have to practice pounce and all other things.

[alpine plover]

So it’s showed and stated that the cera will have some extra aquatic mobility to escape from some of the larger, slower swimmers. How quick do you think it’s swim will be?

[swift flower]

Maybe as fast as teno

[sinful cove]

3 hours to grow an apex predator lol no

Thats shorter than steg who gets bodied by a few utahs rn

[alpine plover]

Hola

[meager ice]

4 or 5 seems alright for deino

[sinful cove]

5 seems right

It def shouldnt be shorter than stego what ever it is

[meager ice]

It would make no sense if it was

[sinful cove]

Anything below 5 or 6hr for something that will be wrecking everyone's shit in its adult stage for a while would be a crime

[true ginkgo]

should be similar to or a bit longer than stego, depending on how powerful it is.

[sinful cove]

If it merks stego's shit it should be 6hr or steg grow should be shortened because it really isnt worth 5hr atm already

[obtuse ocean]

I grew my first stego today, i felt strong and good. Walked 50 meter, saw 2 utahs. Told them to move cus ofcourse im strong, next thing they are both hanging on my side. And i was more or less dead, something fishy about the balance.

[sinful cove]

Devs love utah way too much

So unless deino also gets merked by utahs, which is unlikely with it being a swimmer, it should be 6 hours

Or steg should be reduced to 4 hours because the devs didnt give it the justice it deserves

[reef sapphire]

Could of rammed them up into trees and one shot them

[hollow canyon]

Stego doesn't move fast enough to ram Utahs into trees, your best bet is to buck them off by holding "e"

[slim dragon]

Deino growth is 24 hours if my informations are correct

[hallow rose]

where the fuck did you get that info from

[alpine plover]

lol if it's anywhere close to 24 hours to grow a deino im never growing one

thats absurd

[slim dragon]

That's because it's supposed to grow indefinitely, but since the game doesn't allow it it's just gonna grow to huge sizes in 24 hours
But I'm not certain that's gonna be a thing

But it probably won't take that long to reach "adult" stage

[swift flower]

I feel like its gonna reach subadult in maybe 4h and the last 25% could be maybe 5h caude crocodiles first grow quickly and then slow down

[alpine plover]

How many ppl are delusional lol

[sinful cove]

Lmao 24h yeah that aint happening

[safe anchor]

24 hour growth time I’ll pass on that I got other things to do then grow for 24 hours

[lean shoal]

the massive/infinite growth was changed over a year ago. deino will likely take between 6 and 8 hours base like the apexes in legacy.

of course nutrition and other factors will play into your growth.

[alpine plover]

Originally deinos concept was the apex killer and would’ve been like 20 hours to grow. But since it’s now not gonna be quite as powerful as the legacy version was gonna be. Probably 6 to 8 hours

[sinful cove]

On carni hunger, while making their hunger drain more constant would make it harder, it also just encourages more mass killing

[hollow canyon]

Hunger will be probably further tinkered with in the upcoming updates. It would be quite weird to make carnivores have to eat more often than the herbivores as this is not how it works in reality.

[sinful cove]

And that makes things miserable for both parties, one having to focus on hunger 100% of their gameplay and the other having their entire group wiped by the starving pred

[hollow canyon]

I think the current rate of starvation is... about okay-ish right now although in the legacy this would be an extremely short hunger-time for any animal.

I remember the old Cerato-rex starved in about 45 minutes and it was considered to be an animal that had to eat pretty much all the time.

[sinful cove]

Tenonto could use some love tho so the first part of that suggestion is 👌

[hollow canyon]

Does Tenonto need love? I think it just received some and I didn't have any issues playing it upon reaching an adult, I agree that the juv is hotgarbage and could be buffed though.

[sinful cove]

Tenonto juvie is still slow as shit lol

[hollow canyon]

It is the absolute dumpsterfire among the juveniles, yea

[sinful cove]

Both utah and carno get zoomy af juvies and all current herbis get shafted

[hollow canyon]

While it's not the slowest one the combination of being utterly atrocious speedwise while also being pretty large is a really bad combination

[sinful cove]

Well aside from hyps who has no juv atm

[hollow canyon]

Honestly I don't even kill young Tenontos upon encountering them unless I'm smaller than them or starving

1 to 1 equally grown tenonto is by far the weakest animal before being an adult

[sinful cove]

So it def needs some love lol, it will probably go extinct when the mid tiers start rolling in anyway tho

[hollow canyon]

Having said that... the only time I ever died as a young Tenonto was when I got spawnkilled by a Carno after I spawned in the centre on Nycta

Well - the juvie does, I think adult Tenonto is just fine the way it is right now

I haven't had any issues handling either Carnos nor Utahs

[sinful cove]

Atm it could be worse, but the future probably isnt bright for it when things like allo and alberto come

Allo looked fast asfuck in his run cycle preview

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps but we will have to see, neither of these two is going to join the ranks any time soon

Allo ran at 42km/h - 3km/h slower than a Tenonto

So yea not much of a difference there

[sinful cove]

Hopefully they have it well thought out and care bout it lol

[hollow canyon]

Considering it's a much more massive and powerful animal it could very likely wipe Tenontos off the face of Evrima

We'll have to see but I believe they will be interfering when something is clearly out of whack in the game

I don't think they're planning 2 years ahead in terms of how the current animals are meant to interact with those that will be coming months from now

[alpine plover]

I get that Utah isnt popular because of Legacy
But is it really fair to have a small tier carni have base attacks as slow as Teno tail slam?

[hollow canyon]

This "small tier Carni" also has one of the most potent attacks in the game in the form of pounce which is the main way in which it deals damage. That coupled with absurd agility is how it hunts. Not so much by biting things to death. While I might agree to a certain extent that its bite feels really... rigid and weird to use - it's generally not how Utah deals damage in Evrima. Attack speed in general isn't that important in the game and especially not for smaller and faster animals. Fights involving those aren't about running up to your opponent and spamming your attack until one of you stops moving but more so about running around and trying to hit that one attack while making your opponent miss theirs.

[rapid bison]

lol when i shut off my computer to sleep i accidentally put a 🩱 instead of 1️⃣ and when i come back 2 other people for some reason reacted with the same emote

why is there a 6 hour slow mode

[sonic flame]

Prevents people from spamming balance feedback, and also prevents discussion in the feedback channel

[reef sapphire]

Give Stego a weak front attack. It’s actually easier for juvie Carnos/smaller Carnos to hit adult Stegos than it is for an adult Carno. That, or just extend the hitbox downward. I shouldn’t be able to kill an adult stego as a juvie as funny as it is. Something to combat the fact that you can absolutely abuse this

[lament turtle]

Doesn't stego literally have a bite?

[twin portal]

It does have a bite. I’ve eaten many a Hypsi with stego bite.

Left click is bite, like everything else.

[sonic flame]

This is a PSA to everyone talking about the Deino or Ptera stats from the stream

That is all

[slim dragon]

Why are people still concerned about tailriding ? You can't tailride in evrima. Especially when you're a carno.

[rapid bison]

for the people who voted against my suggestion, why would that be a bad idea

[sonic flame]

Well mainly because neither Cerato nor Carno should be as powerful as their legacy counterparts

Do you really want an animal that small killing rex or spino just because it's fast?

[rapid bison]

no

i'm saying it would be able to hunt stuff bigger, not biggest

[sonic flame]

So how much bigger are we talking then?

Cerato shouldn't be beating an allo or an alberto imo

[rapid bison]

in packs it should

[sonic flame]

Yes but packs are tricky because what if they both have the same amount of animals?

[rapid bison]

then the ceratos simply don't hunt them

[sonic flame]

And how many Ceratos per allos? 2,3, 5?

Yes but then what is the point of making an animal geared around hunting larger animals if it can't really stand a chance against the next largest predators

Hell, a Maia is 3x the size of cerato

In terms of mass

Likewise, Carnos bite doesn't seem to warrant a nerf, as Carno is only strong compared to the animals we have right now

and even then not by much, considering a Teno can kill a carno

And hunting larger animals is the niche of Utahraptor

[rapid bison]

first, there would naturally be more ceratos than allos because of the new grouping system
second, ceratos wouldn't hunt maias unless the maia is not in a herd/group, cerato would be able to hunt things like allos because they could use their better agility and speed to single out one of them
third, carno's bite damage being nerf would mean that carnos would have to hunt smaller creatures and would mean that carnos would do more than just bite a tenonto, run and repeat.
and fourth, there should be more than just one animal hunting things larger than them. there would be dinosaurs that are better at doing it and others that are worse, there shouldn't just be one dinosaur hunting things larger than them.

[sonic flame]

But should Carno, a dinosaur that is larger than cerato, be dealing less damage than it?

Nerfing carno to deal less damage than an animal half its size, just so that animal can pretend like it is a mid tier seems a bit strange to me

Likewise Cerato won't be that much faster or that much more agile than an allo, which would mearly need to stand and force the cerato to come to it

Likewise, just because an animal has higher group limits does not mean it will have a larger pack

I.e. Tenos can have herds up to 6, carno packs up to 3, guess what there are more of

or hell, steg is limited to 4 while Teno is limited to 6

and yet there are stegs for days

Like In my opinion, your reward for growing an allo, a creature 3x heavier than a cerato, should be a comparative increase in strength that would at least let you 2v1 them with relative ease

Otherwise, if we are going to make cerato able to hunt allos or maias etc, what is the point of allo?

I don't think we should nerf mid tier animals so cerato can be stronger when there are plenty of small tier options for it to hunt

Plus making Cerato stronger fucks with the 50/50 the concept art shows Cerato and Magy having

You are free to try to attack larger things with cerato, but if you do, you should keep in mind you are a small animal

More over, a small animal with a gimmik that doesn't make it easier to hunt larger prey animals

Utah, Troodon, and Dilo all have abilities that let them punch above their weight when hunting. Do we really need to give Cerato one as well?

[rapid bison]

cerato isn't half the size of carno, and just because hyenas are smaller than lions, do they deal less damage? and cerato would have more speed to escape allos if they're alone.
And when it comes to carnivores, people will always want more if they're not some cannibal. And stegos are the most powerful creature in the game of course there will be a lot of them
Cerato should only be able to hunt allos if they are in a pack of 3, and allos could still hunt larger things because there are still pseudo apexes like sucho, stego, anky or acro.
Small tiers would be able to run from ceratos, and since the devs are still sticking with magy, magy would certainly have more than a body slam to counter cerato, and therefore with cerato being more powerful that would create a 50/50 between them.
And cerato shouldn't be invincible when attacking larger things, it should still be more careful than the dinos you listed because as i said, there would be dinos that are better than others in terms of taking down larger prey

[sonic flame]

Assuming they are going with something around the size of IRL cerato (actual in game size TBD) then yes it is half the size of Carno, getting up to about a ton while Carno is 2 tons

Likewise, Carno's whole thing is hunting animals smaller than it, Cerato is one such animal

a 3 v 1 doesn't sound like a very good candidate for the "I can fight things larger than I am" niche given that you are forced to have 2 other players to stand a chance against an animal you would be competing with for food

All in all it seems you are pushing for a Cerato that is different than the one we can see in the concept art and trello

which isn't bad per say, but Cerato's toolkit just isn't geared to big game hunting

Allo's got a latch, Alberto can abuse fracture, Carno doesn't compete with them because it hunts small game

Cerato is simply outclassed in terms of size, but it does have speed

[rapid bison]

ok

[sonic flame]

Well, probably will have speed

And don't get me wrong Cerato won't be a pushover, but don't expect it to be taking on animals that are double its size

hell, Even a Tenontosaurus seems like a dangerous prey item when you are the size of its tail

[tall bronze]

I always pictured a Cerato and Allo 1v1 being the Allo winning, but the Cerato being super aggressive and not going down without a fight. Like the Allo would definitely feel it afterwards

[sonic flame]

That's more Carno v Cerato imo

[reef sapphire]

Stego bite doesn’t actually do anything to prevent what I said from being abused. Latency issues are one thing, but something tiny and very fast can still easily avoid the hitbox

I was talking a small AOE but aight

I mean it’ll be fixed with Trample damage but as of right now, the Stego has a ‘weak spot’ thats easily abused

[sonic flame]

To be fair that's kind of the point

Given the sheer power of the tail

[alpine plover]

Deinos health is only 3000? That’s bull

[safe anchor]

you are taken stats from a build thats not finished numbers change all the time dont worry about it

every number you see in any build or any game for that matter can change with a single update,its hard to keep track of all the changes sometimes

[alpine plover]

I’m just saying that if it stays at 3000, it’ll be very, very easy to kill. If it weighs as much stego then give it health similar

[safe anchor]

like i said its not done yet dont worry about it 🙂

[hollow canyon]

Why are people even talking about Cerato taking on an Allosaurus? The largest Ceratosaurus is like 3 times smaller than the largest Allosaurs. An idea that Cerato would have a better time hunting an Allosaurus instead of Maiasaura is just completely absurd. 1v1 Cerato shouldn't be "not going down without a fight" - it should be runnimg for its life, praying it gets out of that scuffle in one piece. This is a scenario similar to an encounter between a hyena and a male lion. Unless there's multiple hyenas and when I say multiple I'm not talking about 3 or 4, they don't even think about taking a lion on.
Overall Cerato is not a big-game hunter by any stretch of the imagination. I'd suggest to make it a good swimmer and capable of getting up on rocks so that it can threaten Utahs(and presumably Pachies+Dilos) in their refuges.

As for Carno - it is fine the way it is. Its biteforce is just fine for hunting the smaller things and Tenonto appears to be about the most powerful animal it can take on. It's bad against Stegos and rightly so because it isn't meant to be hunting it.

[modest badge]

I'd like to see Cerato be anti-Utah/Dilo.

Doesn't matter what they do, they will never be safe from a Cerato (Unless they run away in a straight line)

[tall bronze]

I just said not going down without a fight as in it'd just be super aggressive. Allo would still definitely win. But I do keep forgetting Cerato is much smaller now. (which I like)

[hollow canyon]

Aggression of each animal is determined by the person controlling it. I've seen super aggressive Dryos but that's just because people decided to play them that way.

[tall bronze]

Eh, true. Guess that's just how I'd play it 😛 Super aggressive badger....hyena....thing that's not a coward

[alpine plover]

Even pounce with the way its implemented is still subject to change, because rn it does seem "too strong" whenever its working properly
It's just that when a Utah's biteforce is as low as it is, while having its attack speed actually equivalent to a teno tail slam. To me that's flat out ridiculous.

[hollow canyon]

Utah will not be about standing on top of its prey and biting it to death though. It doesn't really need to attack fast as it wants to minimise the contact with its opponent.

It's something that the devs might want to change perhaps but it's hardly a priority and doesn't affect the game much if at all.

[sonic flame]

Plus combat shouldn't get to the point where Utah's bite delay is causing issues

[hollow canyon]

The pounce is indeed too strong perhaps but I can't imagine it getting the nerfhammer to such an extent as to make Utah use its bite extensively.

[sonic flame]

Given that the trend is going away from clicking faster than your opponent and moving more towards making those clicks count

I say delay, I really just mean you can't double bite or cancel the animation before it is finished

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's pretty much the case with the Utah - you need to make those clicks count, you do the input as you're reaching your opponent dealing damage to them and retreating immediately.

I do feel that there's an actual delay on Utah's bite attack tbh, I've heard the opposite from other players but in my experience Utah's attack works properly only when you click before reaching your opponent

similarly to how Carno's bite worked in the legacy where you had to click before you made contact with your foe otherwise damage wasn't being dealt at all

[sonic flame]

If you mean a delay before the damage starts, then that's on latency and desyncs, issues currently being worked on

[alpine plover]

Ofc Utah is not going to be spam clicking its prey to death like Legacy, with the alt turn. That's no longer a concern.
Rn with the way combat works, is that you use footwork and positioning to avoid the enemys superior attack damage. Which makes Teno v Utah fights so engaging for both parties. The delay rather damages this dynamic and makes players more reliant on pounce which is frustrating for the dino on the receiving end. Pounce should only be a finisher.

[hollow canyon]

I understand, Hypernova but this is something I notice exlclusively on the Utahraptor

[sonic flame]

Yeah I've actually heard that from a few others, but I haven't noticed the bite not being as responsive as the other attacks

[hollow canyon]

Idk about pounce being a finisher, it feels like its the Utah's main weapon for dealing damage

[sonic flame]

I'm wondering what might be causing that, and if its not a bug and just placebo, what might be leading people to think it is slower

[alpine plover]

Teno's hitboxes actually seem fine
It's just that Carno's sides and Stego's sniper hitbox I've encountered

[hollow canyon]

It's definitely slower when compared to other attacks, as in - you can get more bites in as a Carno in the same timespan than you could as a Utah

as for the "delay" itself I've heard conflicting opinions on this

[sonic flame]

I think that is due to a longer bite animation on the Utah, but the difference is pretty slight

[alpine plover]

I've seen some tests being run

[hollow canyon]

To me it seems like it's definitely a thing - when I play a Utahraptor my bites connect only when I press prior to reaching my opponent, if I do it after I already made contact with them they miss unless I'm still standing by them

[alpine plover]

It's certainly slower

[sonic flame]

also about pounce and teno, the utah would lose that fight if the teno can force the utah to trade hits, so pounce is really your own safe bet when it comes to dealing with a teno

or ganging up works as well, but if the teno doesn't miss, then it will basically always win

[sonic flame]

Yeah that sounds like the desync issue, it is being worked on

[hollow canyon]

I don't experience that on any other animal though

Carno works as intended so does Tenonto and Stego

[sonic flame]

It has the same symptoms of the universal issue

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps

[alpine plover]

It is a safe bet, but I feel combat is at its best when your bobbing and dodging tail slams/kicks smartly. Which Utah allows to get hits in through those opening.
Risky, but doable. Engaging, and fair on both parties.

[hollow canyon]

Some other people told me that they don't see any delay on Utah's lmb attack however they found some on other dinosaurs that I haven't had such issues with

Overall there are far more pressing matters regarding Utah like the fact that the pounce sometimes gets you stuck be it mid-air or on the ground. Furthermore I had a situation where I got stuck as a Carno after being pounced by a Utah - I experienced an input lock and couldn't do anything aside from biting. My ability to move or even turn was completely disabled, pretty much the same thing that happens with Utahs that sometimes get stuck.

I'm not sure what's causing these issues however I have some suspicions that they might be occurring in specific locations on the map as I got my Utah stuck after pounce twice in a row in the same place.

[sonic flame]

Pounce is a really complicated mechanic, but it is generally getting better over time

[hollow canyon]

Indeed it is, the bugs seemed far more frequent and common before, it definitely needs a bit of work still.

[silent dew]

@alpine plover whoever told you it'll need 24h, that wasnt an official statement from the devs. 5-8h would be a reasonable time.

@alpine plover @swift flower please remember that all stats are WIP and subject to change if they dont fit the desired results.

[alpine plover]

I'm glad.

[undone path]

How can you see your ivnertorry

[wary otter]

press insert

[mellow zenith]

@alpine plover Imo no thanks, first off all, for now every stats (hunger/thirst) is the same for all dino and will be change in the futur. Secondly, utah really need to play scavenger to grow and are very vunerable before pounce (wich is 85% growth), so that would be really rough for them. Not to mention that atm, the pounce is broken, resulting in the loss of the Utah. On top of all of this, the desync/lag/DC will get u killed more often than any other dino (except dryo) as the HP is low.

[rapid bison]

i thought the ✅ was someone who actually agreed but instead it's you who put it without also putting a ❌. At least you didn't put and 📌 , but even if i agreed i would put a ❌

[warm mesa]

Just gonna reply to this rq to go off of what Cerato was meant to be in legacy (and proablly in evrima too, since its just a recoded version of the game with more features added). It was meant to defend itself against carnos, which it could do with more health and damage but at the cost of having no way of escape unless it injured the carno. Meanwhile cerato vs anything stronger than Allos and Allo itself would result in the cerato running away and being able to do so. A carno wouldnt just "feel" the damage a cerato did, it could very well die from a few bites.

[wooden jungle]

@ember ivy first of all, there are only two Carnivores right now, second of all, carnos have a extremely hard time attacking a stego, third, stegos chance of surviving skyrockets of its in a group or near trees, and fourth, although pouncing needs a little nerf, I’m glad stego isn’t invincible. I think evrima is doing an amazing job with balancing dinosaurs.

[ember ivy]

It takes 4 Utah’s, to shred a stego in under a minute

An animal that is 5.3 tons at the very least , is absolutely destroyed by 4 Utah’s that collectively weigh a ton less

Carno on the other hand, can demolish stegos fairly easily because bleed is nothing atm

Ofc not a lone carno, I’m saying 3 to a minimum

It’s not where you make a mistake and your a dead carno, it’s where you have multiple chances to survive a stegos hit bc the bleed currently is abysmal

[tall bronze]

I agree bleed needs to be....well....threatening. I get that there's no real bleeders right now, but that excuse just makes it sound like anything that's not a bleeder might as well not have bleed. Right now you have to let yourself bleed for it to be threatening, and even then you'll probably just heal it before it does anything.

[wooden jungle]

it is 4.5 tons in the game, think about it though, 8 claws and 4 utah bites should take it down easy

its just realistic

and one hit from a stego nearly kills the carno with a body shot, head shots one shot them

stego is balanced, i feel like you just want it to be an unkillable tank...

this isnt legacy anymore

if i can survives 2 weeks with multiple utah attacks, everyone else can too

your argument isnt valid

[tall bronze]

Utah pounce should still be more bleed focused though. But that requires bleed to be a threat

[sonic flame]

The problem is with utah's pounce, not stego

[hollow canyon]

4 Utahs killing an animal of that size is nowhere close to being realistic. I don't think Stego is too weak though, solo perhaps? In a herd which they pretty much always are they are close to untouchable. Carno is pretty garbage against Stego and I don't think it's even worth trying to hunt a stego with it

[sonic flame]

Utah pounce is kind of braindead once you land it

[hollow canyon]

It's not that hard to land it either

tbh I'd be fine with it being strong if it lands, the Utah should however be punished more for missing it

As it is there's absolutely 0 punishment for having missed this skill, it's a low risk, high reward ability atm

[tall bronze]

Yeah, it's so spammable I sometimes use it just to jump around 😛 I always thought pounce was going to be a high risk, high reward thing. Right now it's just "Right click until you latch on"

[sonic flame]

To be fair, with the latency issues on public, landing a pounce can be quite difficult

[tall bronze]

I once latched on to a running Carno and just teleported to the side. You'd think that'd knock me down or something

[sonic flame]

thus if you only got 1 or 2, and the game still had latency issues, Utahs wouldn't pounce

[hollow canyon]

It used to knock you down a couple of patches ago

[safe anchor]

stamina pays a big factor in winning fights miss enough times and you'll run out,but i agree i feel you should be punished for spamming it or missing too much

[hollow canyon]

Back in ~Septbember and before that I know for sure that if you hit the pounce on the head of the Tenonto or on its tail you were getting knocked down onto the ground

I think you should simply have a short moment of recovery if you miss it

[tall bronze]

Yeah, just something to really discourage spamming it.

[hollow canyon]

As it is Idk you'd have to literally just mash rmb at random to run out of stamina while in combat as a Utah

I miss it more than once in a fight sometimes and I still don't really have much issues, worst case scenario I disengage and get back to the Tenonto/Stego I was hunting a bit later

[novel tulip]

Maybe the less stamina you have the less damage pounce does overall

Aka if I pounce at 100% stam the pounce does what it does now, but if I pounce at 80 or 50 the damage and duration are reduced

If I pounce at low like 20 or 10 I just do damage equivalent to 2 bites then instantly fall off

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, with 100 stam you do more dmg then the rex in Legacy does in one bite. Sounds fair

[alpine plover]

@alpine plover Archaeopteryx is a shitty idea

It's pint sized and can't even interact with the rest of the roster

A ptera could swallow it in one gulp.

[sinful cove]

How can archaeopteryx make “very large bleeds” too lmao

Also upvoting your own suggestion

Archaeopteryx could barely even pass as a predator in the isle

He is just a pesky snack for small tiers

Spend multiple thousands of dollars to add a tiny, unviable animal that small juvies can get 20% hunger from?

We already have compy

[alpine plover]

Keep in mind Pteranodon has a wingspan longer than a transit van (by about a metre)

[sinful cove]

Even changyuraptor, a considerably larger glider, would be a bit of a stretch

But if we got a small glider he would be the better option over arch

It can but only if it can survive in the roster, arch would basically be limited to bugs

If its done right sure, there are a few gliders who could fit the bill

What would deinon do

Yeah but what would they do

Deinonychus claw was like velo and utah's

You want someone with special claws look at Balaur

[alpine plover]

Balaur can't even glide

It's too heavy xd

Troodon already had plans

[sinful cove]

We were talkin fancy claws ik balaur cant glide lol

[alpine plover]

And guess what? It's a pack hunting venemous bastard

[sinful cove]

Also didnt bal live on the same island as magy

They could add shanag as a glider because his name sounds funny and he's so fragmentary they could do pretty much anything with him, he's estimated at almost 5ft so he trumps archaeopteryx or microraptor

[alpine plover]

Yuup

Btw the diet of balaur as of now is ambiguous

[sinful cove]

Yea they think he could be an omni because he was fat

[alpine plover]

We don't know if it was a carnivore, omnivore or herbivore

This is our only material of the animal

[sinful cove]

Balaur is pretty unique in having 4 switchblade claws and being another omnivore and probably arboreal option but idk how he'd fare

[alpine plover]

We at least know it's an avialan and not a dromaeosaur.

[sinful cove]

Lot of room for them to expand the omnivore roster so who knows maybe some day

[alpine plover]

Balaur could as well be a robust bastard which literally leaps onto dryos from trees (although that's what Herrerasaurus probably will do)

[sinful cove]

Yeah herrera is the main issue tho balaur could probably juke him considering their size difference

[alpine plover]

Troodon is dangerous to big and large creatures

Well a swarm of them can take on a tenontosaurus

Lemme get the concept art.

Btw @alpine plover are you even a player.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/801601300768227368/image0.jpg

He's dangerous because he hunts in a group AND has venom

[silent dew]

@alpine plover Archeopteryx is too small to a be a viable playable. perhaps as AI, but i dont see it as anything more

[proper talon]

As much as I love Archaeopteryx (it's one of my favourites in a roster of dinos existing in general anywhere), I agree with Melon. Archae is much too small to be a good playable dinosaur. Making it an AI would be interesting for swifter ground predators such as utahraptor or troodon, since it's a glider and leaves itself open to be attacked when moving between trees. But otherwise, I don't see it having much potential in a game this scale.

[fallen lynx]

That's not how

I don't think Ptera should get that. It's a fisher, it shouldn't get punished for fishing. Also, the Isle's ptera appears to lack pycnofibers, which is the only thing that would catch water in a way where it'd need to "dry out".

[soft forge]

And pterosaurs wouldn’t have pycnofibers on their wings anyways

[hollow canyon]

In general Pteranodon was capable of going into the water and then flying off just fine. Iirc Pelagornis would be the one that would actually struggle with taking off from the surface. Pteranodon realistically wouldn't have such issues.

[wild cove]

Agreed. I'm not exactly huge on dino knowledge but isn't ptera basically like the leathery dino equivalent of a sea bird? I'd think it'd be adapted to shake off water just fine like a duck or a seagull

[rapid bison]

that would also mean that pteras couldn't survive at all because they wouldn't be able to escape from larger predators if it is just staying in land and also because if they didn't want that to happen they would need to simply stop fishing

[rapid charm]

@alpine plover are you suggesting that the carno falls over when a utah jumps on him?

the carno falls over?

[sinful cove]

No

Utah pounce is already too low risk high reward, he shouldnt be bowling carnos over

You shouldnt be rewarded with basically a free kill on a higher tier animal who is supposed to eat you, carno is supposed to eat animals in utah's tier

Utah pounce is already socketed and has very little punishment for missing

If you're having so much trouble with carnos just hunt something else, like a juvie tenonto might be more on your level

[alpine plover]

utah pounce is fine, we have enough ways to shorten it and knock them off that it's fine as long as the utah doesn't have too many players around them. But dropping a carno? no, just no. It is fine as is, no need to change it apart from the socket system

[silent dew]

i think a 2t animal in a charge would just let you fly away if you jump in its way

especially if you just weight a ⅓ of carno

[sinful cove]

Alternate idea: let carno yeet utahs into orbit with its charge

[alpine plover]

y e s

[valid sapphire]

bowling except the pins are ragdolled utahs would be a funny interaction

[silent dew]

@cloud urchin grazing is most probably about to change in U5 when diets are implemented

[cloud urchin]

I hope

[torn eagle]

@mellow zenith I agree with this, maybe not both damage AND stamina. But there must be a punish for missing your pounce.

[mellow zenith]

i want it to be really rough on the spam but overall i just DON'T want a stun for a missing pounce, i think that would be too much. Get punish for hitting a wall/tree with a stun, ok. Get a stun because you pounce nothing.... meh @torn eagle

[sinful cove]

Hitting a wall or tree with pounce should also damage you with the stun

[torn eagle]

Never mentioned stuns... I'm agreeing to punishing utah pounce misses. Maybe make it drain the same stam as initally when you start the pounce if you miss (to soak the landing I guess)

[mellow zenith]

like the idea

[torn eagle]

Stun would just make the gameplay tedious, and we want that fast paced gameplay we got a mere taste of in evrima, right? Stamina seems like a great way to punish

Just like tenonto, we can bait their tail slams for stam. Then finish them when they're out of it. A dinosaur without stam is pretty much a dinosaur who can't properly defend themselves nor run away

[mellow zenith]

true

[torn eagle]

also please for the love of god double, if not TRIPLE the stamina usage for stego tail strikes. They already heal like gods (bleed), do damage beyond comprehension , and also basically have NO recovery frames to their faulty swings(swing swing swing swing swing, no opening for anyone to attack).

[mellow zenith]

not really, the opening is just unforgeving as it should be i think

BUT

i don't know how it could works with the accel of the utah on the QA serv

[torn eagle]

well choose one, is what I say. You can't be amazing at everything. Right now a 100% grown stego (I've grown one, had to drown myself due to bordeom) is literally unkillable. My suggestion was merely stamina increase.

[sinful cove]

Not really lol carno trios and utah packs down a lot of stegos

[mellow zenith]

i don't know about that, i don't play steg so i can't pronounce myself

[torn eagle]

Yeah if stego doesn't position and attack properly. All those carno trios always have one or two get hit during the encounter. Don't forget that carno max limit (rulewise, not what's actually being played) is 3, and stego's are 4. Also herds of herbivores would likely be less punishable than a carno pack going to 4. I'm not saying carno's should ever even consider hunting a stego. I am however saying that a stego right now, would probably destroy even an apex release simply due to their mechanics.

[mellow zenith]

with the current state of the live version, we cannot say whats really working or not, with the desync problem, all the fight are pretty much screwed

[torn eagle]

True Vektor, even with the QA server with seemingly (sort of) fixed desync and lag, this still stays the same. Honestly just change stam or recovery frames of stego swings. Not both, just one. Recovery frames nerf would make it so you can bait, hit, bait, hit. Stam would mean you could drain them. Even bleed recovery nerf would help a lot, bleed em out with some lucky hits.

that being said, it's just a suggestion. 🙂

[cloud urchin]

@twin portal The color and graphics of the grass is one way to convey the condition. It's on the table.

However, I would avoid changing the 'Sister Nodes' for that counter offer. It's just a term I'm using because I don't have enough word space to type out the entire function on discord, but it has pretty important purpose you can read up on via the link.

Let me show you why. Say there's a herd of herbies in a praire looking to graze, they'll most likely stand as near the center of the open field as possible or even be on the opposite end of the node in order to be as far away from the tree line as possible and not get ambushed. If the nodes are just humongous circles that you only have to stand within, they can do this very easily. But if the nodes are smaller pieces, the herd can slowly be guided towards the trees over time and BAM! Prime Ambush Real Estate. Knowing this, individuals herds existing in the same area can get snappy and agitated with one another. "Hey! You bois stay away from the center, that's for my kin. Take your ass to the tree lines and deal with it."

Anyway, I digress, Sister Nodes exist to counter Large Maps while also giving greater flexibility in game. Not all grass fields will be complete perfect circles, we'll get plenty of weird shapes. However, what I want is to give the devs and perhaps even server owners better control of the map's detail in terms of grazing. So instead of just having big nodes that control entire sections, I'm instead splitting a single zone into multiple little grid dots that can affect one another. It'll lower the overall food in the area, giving herbies the choice of moving or fighting over scraps.

[twin portal]

The reason I'm against the "sister node" thing, is really, just ease of implementation. The more smaller nodes there are, the harder they'd be to implement. I get what you're saying, but this could easily be fixed by instead just... making "middle nodes" and "edge nodes" instead of a ton of tiny nodes all over.

The more nodes there are, the more lag, too.

That's why I'm against procedurally generated grass nodes. :Y

[cloud urchin]

Hmm. Why not just use Stasis and Unstasis to work around that?

[twin portal]

I'm not sure how the devs have the game set up to run. I know they want to have active AI in the servers, and currently, it doesn't appear as though the AI become inactive if there's no players near them. (Not sure on that though.)

[cloud urchin]

Also, can you explain 'Middle' and 'Edge' nodes a bit?

[twin portal]

As opposed to having one node span an entire large field, and create that "herbivores staying in the middle of a node and never going near the ambush spots", have a single "grazing territory" consist of a node in the middle, and a node around the edge / near the ambush area.

Make the node in the middle have less food, so it'd force herbivores to fight for the "prime" spot.

This would require manual setup, but would allow the devs to determine a good balance between node amount and server lag.

(As well as, y'know, make sure the weird shapes look decent enough intersecting / make sure the middle is the middle and the edge is the edge.)

[cloud urchin]

Active AI is nice, but I think allowing the server to turn down part of its brain and focus power elsewhere will do everybody better. It can always use the more basic 1s and 0s to figure out what happened in a dead zone.

Back to grazing, I can sort of see what you're going for, it's similar but sort of acts like a mega node. Honestly, it just sounds like an extra step to what I have. I will say it is fully in the realm of the map developer to scale the grid dots to whatever size they want and assign whichever number they want each to worth. But I think with proper Stasis and Unstasis, there shouldn't be too many implementation problems beyond the expected.

[wild cove]

The problem with the active vs stasis system in regards to food, because that's what they've always used for AI before, is that you can have someone just camped in one spot where AI (or in this case grass) are supposed to "activate" when players are around, and the AI either never activate or can't be found. You notice it a lot more on low population servers. The stasis system is unreliable at best and outright kills players at worst when AI fail to appear.

[sinful cove]

Upvoting your own suggestion

[sinful cove]

lol so do you want diurnal dinos to be blocked from caves by some invisible barrier or what

[sinful cove]

How about no

[gaunt jackal]

utah be like: i am diurnal dino now im physically incapabel of getting in a dark cave or wdy

[sinful cove]

Troodongod's dream: attacking things he can't handle then running into the safespace cave where an invisible barrier stops him from dying

[gaunt jackal]

to true

[sinful cove]

Totally not broken

[gaunt jackal]

same

[sinful cove]

Mmmmmmhmmm

[gaunt jackal]

have i said live in one?

[sinful cove]

If a utah wants to chill in a cave just let it do so at its own risk

[gaunt jackal]

i just want to explore it mabey get some of taht good stuf like in bob

[sinful cove]

Invisible barriers are gay and restricting by force like that is gay

Should we also make nocturnal animals have total shit sight when the sun is out too

[gaunt jackal]

looks at cat

[sinful cove]

Cats cone out whenever lol

But i dont remember being stopped by an invisible forcefield when entering a cave either because thats now how life works

[mellow zenith]

The acceleration of the utah should be a little better, not reverted back. Atm its too much

[rapid bison]

utah's supposed to be both fast and nimble so instead of being just a tiny bit better i feel like it should be 100% reverted

[quaint gate]

i dont know in terms of balance

but utah is defintly suppost to have extremely fast acceleration

[dense hamlet]

The new acceleration is actually horrible 😅

[vernal sentinel]

it really is, but carno mains will vote ❌ anyway because they only care about their creature

[vagrant inlet]

Honestly seems like Carno should have been the one’s that got the acceleration nerf instead of the Utah
I say that as someone who prefers Carno

[hallow rose]

its so weird that they made utah have the slowest acceleration in game but also made it as maneuverable as dryo

[hollow canyon]

It doesn't have the slowest acceleration, Carno accelerates a split second to about half a second slower. Utah does however have a somewhat weird build up where it seems to gain quite little speed in the first part of its acceleration.

[rapid bison]

Sad how easy it is to both grow and kill as carno, so now all of those allo players in legacy became carno mains
So carno mains went from people that like to improve their skills in order to actually be able to fight anything as carno to people that scream every 5 seconds, and with the collective IQ of 17, as you could already tell in legacy if you played carno and went to twins

[silent dew]

we'll see how "easy" it will get with Update 5 diets and with new dinos in Update 3

[rapid bison]

yea, with diets they will be forced to hunt small tiers, since they are so power hungry and therefore will force themselves to make their dino the strongest

[hollow canyon]

Even without diets carno is kind of garbage against larger animals, it's far inferior in taking down Stegos than a Utah is. Growing anything is a formality in Evrima for the most part(on the current patch) Be it a Utah, Carno not to mention the herbivores which are mainly a nuissance due to how dull their growth is

[silent dew]

aye, rn the entire game is pretty easy to handle

[hollow canyon]

Pretty much

I'd say that no matter what you play if you're determined to stay alive you don't really have to die if you focus on the game properly

[silent dew]

herbis have food everywhere

[hollow canyon]

Yea, exactly

[silent dew]

well said

like, if i want to survive, i will survive, if we just take food/water intakes

dying to anothrr player is part of the game

[hollow canyon]

Indeed but tbh the game isn't just about surviving, I need some action to make it fun, hunting just weaker and smaller things as well as the AI just doesn't cut it for me

[silent dew]

ye, but i dont get the complaints afterward when, eg a carno dies to a teno and whines "muhh carno must be better than teno in 1v1"

[modest carbon]

I love the fact that tenos can hold their own against carnos

[silent dew]

most death are your own faults, no matter what you try to make as an excuse

[modest carbon]

Yep

[hollow canyon]

pretty much unless some bug occurs and e.g. you can't move

[modest carbon]

Yeah but thats different because it's out of your control etc.

[silent dew]

agreed, but ppl just dont only complain about these valid situations. they complain about their own inability to play the game properly

[modest carbon]

Yeah thats more common

[hollow canyon]

true to a large extent

[silent dew]

it is clearly said "Carno is small game hunter in the plains" yet ppl complain about carnos low viability in jungle/forests has a bad swim speed and cant kill a stego

[modest carbon]

Yes

[silent dew]

and we could add many more to this list...

[modest carbon]

The list is endless

I really hope they don't change anything about stego

It just needs to stay

Its great how it is

[alpine plover]

Carno is supposed to be the galli, oviraptor and Utah hunter

Only eating the smaller faster animals while other larger game goes to the pack hunters, brutes, and predators designed to kill them.

[silent dew]

@indigo dagger thats not possible atm, it is extremly resource demanding beyond any viability for the game

[hollow canyon]

It's not really worth doing, it would require a tonne of coordination from the people and a tonne of effort on the developers' part. "The titanoboa of mechanics" requiring an enormous effort for very little actual reward.

[orchid depot]

utah has been nerfed to shit and its annoying me

the only reason it's decent is its pounce, and pouncing is very risky on its own

[rapid bison]

people keep putting X's on the revert acceleration suggestions but never explain why, because they just want utah to not hunt bigger things, even though that's utah's niche

[golden coral]

I think it depends on if you need to use pounce or not, and how many pack members you need for the bigger things. I have no idea how bad the acceleration is, but if you can still pull off a proper ambush, and pounce as a pack on bigger things, then it should be pretty fine. Same as a solo utah for smaller things that you can knock down with the pounce.

[modest carbon]

You can still ambush as a utah with element of surprise, you just can't blast off to a top speed from a stop and juke around your opponents anymore by starting and stopping. I think utah is slight pushed more to a pounce predator in numbers rather than a juke machine where solos can still take on most things, which I think is awesome

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[modest carbon]

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[lean shoal]

legit

[sturdy stone]

I just got done playing utah earlier and honestly saw no issue in it's acceleration lmao I thoroughly enjoyed playing it this time for once

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[mellow zenith]

Imo the acceleration don't need to get revert back, i find it just a little bit slow atm. I would like a a tiny buff to it and a better animation. That doesn't look like the utah want to sprint lmao

[sinful cove]

Lmaoo “change the rules an herbivore killed me reeeeee”

“Herbivores should just wait around to be attacked/killed reeeeeee”

[modest carbon]

Psssshahhhhghah

[orchid depot]

pretty sure he was a stego as well

the other stego that murdered him was likely a sadist

[hollow canyon]

Or it didn't like competition - herbivores should be encouraged to fight one another, although perhaps not intraspecifically, anyways.

[mellow zenith]

In the end, thats on the players. If they want to be territorial herbivore, they can and i don't see the problem with it.

[alpine plover]

Troodon man if you're gonna make a suggestion we need to understand man

What the fuck is "add rule settings for update 4 because get killed by a stego was a stego make me rage. thanks." supposed to mean?

like what do you mean

[dense hamlet]

agree with the utah acceleration boost, feel like utah should be one of the most agile and quick canri but now feels really slow. Feels more like what a dilo should be

[sinful cove]

Well it's one way to tone down on the annoying pounce spamming so its actually used the way a pounce usually is

[rapid bison]

utah should have quick acceleration to dodge most things, instead of changing the utah to make the pounce less annoying, change the pounce itself. If utah has all that acceleration it won't escape deinos, and it would be extremely bad at doing what it's supposed to be, which is take down larger creatures. I'm not suggesting that utah becomes able of soloing a rex or trike, i'm saying that utah should just take on larger things

[obtuse shuttle]

The swift and agile predator must be, well, swift and agile

[sinful cove]

Just nake pounce harder to land instead of the dumb socketing shit and nake it more punishing when you miss and get knocked off tbh

If pounce was riskier and hard to use in the middle of a fight then there'd be no need to cripple utah's mobility otherwise

[modest carbon]

^

[meager ice]

pounce is hard to land and is punishing because desync

and it basically is countered in every way possible, since you can run into water or a tree, or have a buddy bite them off your back. Unless you are solo, you really shouldn’t be dying to Utah’s as carno or stego

[mellow zenith]

bleed should weaken the prey not inflict raw damage like in legacy.
The stam/hp regen is impacted by the level off bleed, that's good.
And for the mouvement making bleed worse like in legacy, im not sure about it, bleeding should be a threat on the long run, not something that kill you in the middle of a fight quickly.
In legacy, bleed was TOO strong. @HappyDerping#9058

[rapid bison]

I love how you posted the "reposting this because..." part without the rest of the text just like people do in general feedback only to realize that there is a 6 hour cooldown

[thick echo]

yeah lol

tbf it was a request

[hallow rose]

@alpine plover no

[wary otter]

just no

[sinful cove]

[mellow zenith]

@proud swan that's intented for the deino gameplay. You'll have to watch out for river

[proud swan]

don't wholey agree but i totally get it. seems a little cheap to die like that but i get they need food too

theyre alredy invisible how much more do they need 😄

[mellow zenith]

Well they will probably balance that when deino will be out

[tender hatch]

@alpine plover
It's already been talked about.
Deino is water locked mainly, so it'll be the strongest creature in the game, IN THE WATER, while being vulnerable out of water.
Pretty sure full adult stego will be able to TAKE ON a full adult

[pale otter]

can the pteranodon eat and drink on the wing?

[hallow rose]

why

[slim dragon]

Because it's small enough. There are gonna be different types of burrows, and every dino small enough will probably be able to enter them.

Troodon will pobably be able to enter avaceratops burrows, but not homalos

dryo won't burrow

well it's unlikely that it will

They made dryo burrow because they don't have any burrowing dino yet, it's only a concept

[hallow rose]

"Burrow Concept Test - Off time play around - Mechanic Concept Test - NOT CONFIRMED"

the stream title

nothing confirmed

[slim dragon]

actually nocturnal dryo is way better than burrowing dryo

[slim dragon]

yep

[candid tulip]

Troodon does NOT need to enter burrows
It's already capable of mimicry, creating psychedelic poisons, and advanced night vision

Entering burrows removes the last defense small animals have against it

[alpine plover]

and even then the psychidelic venom in itself is already over the top

especially since in the concept it appears to be an anticoagulant, too

[hallow rose]

psychidelic venom is for the dilo

[slim dragon]

I agree that Troodon doesn't need to be able to enter burrows but it wouldn't make a lot of sense if it couldn't.

[lean shoal]

mimicry is bad enough

[wary otter]

Sure would be cool but Troodon already has venom and mimic

[lean shoal]

mimicry should be given to ovi instead tbh

[sinful cove]

Yea it's wasted on troodon honestly, when theres so many other small tiers who lack unique features but they cram 3 onto troodon

[sinful cove]

There's a difference between venom and poison…

[mellow zenith]

lmao, wtf is that feedback

[sinful cove]

This dude is obsessed with troodon or something

[slim dragon]

I like troodon but... poisoning carcasses sounds a little over the top

[mellow zenith]

True but his feedback are so f* up. Soon he'll say "make troodon spit fire and akimbo rpg"
Wtf man

[sinful cove]

Lmao right

[sonic widget]

Finally got a gaming laptop

It should be able to support playing the isle

[slim dragon]

Making troodon be able to handle human weapons is already too much

Make troodon be able to tame other dinos 😄

[sinful cove]

Make troodon able to shapeshift into anything it mimics

[hallow rose]

make troodon invisible 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

[sinful cove]

Allow troodon to spray venom from all of his orifices up to 50ft

[mellow zenith]

Allow troodon to use ultra instinct

[sinful cove]

Troodon gets serious bomb and special beam cannon as elder perks

[dense hamlet]

Allow troodon to shoot nuclear waste puddles that are perceived as water for other dinos, so when the dinos drink they die

[sinful cove]

Just make troodon poison any water source it drinks from passively tbh

[dense hamlet]

If we are heading that direction then the air also, you spawn and have a limited time to live, makes gameplay short and interesting

[sinful cove]

Yes allow troodon to gas other dinos by breathing within a 100m radius of them

But so thats not op his breath had a 3 second cd

[dense hamlet]

Allow troodon’s 3 call to summon meteors

[mellow zenith]

Give troodon serrated and radioactive teeth/claw because radioactive poisonning

[wind ivy]

Give troodon slime

[safe anchor]

[lean shoal]

ah yes allow an already powerful mechanic to make the predators not worth fighting at all as a carnivore because they can just make the food you try to take inedible.

[modest carbon]

wooOop wooOOop wooOOop woOOop woOop

[wary otter]

give troodon every special ability of every single dino.. seems fair

[gaunt jackal]

nah man this is a whole new ability where it is able to poisoned carcass

[gaunt jackal]

Godzilla 2.0

[wary otter]

the other suggestions this guy made were even worse tho tbh lol

[gaunt jackal]

tell me

[sinful cove]

he once suggested that diurnal animals be blocked from caves by a barrier

[gaunt jackal]

tbh all the give troodon that give troodon this a bit to much not like troodon is going to be everyone's favorite dino that they play 24/7 i thinks its going to be out shined by dilo and only used for some purposes/a dino you grow quickly to have some fun and fuck around a bit

[sinful cove]

he suggested a mating mechanic, adding rules because he got killed by a stego, utahs bowling carno over with pounce

[gaunt jackal]

i rember that

[sinful cove]

he also wants troodon to burrow

[gaunt jackal]

this dude

mating i can understand the devs even made animations for it

i think

[sinful cove]

wait what

oh dear god

[gaunt jackal]

just searhc for isle mating

search*

[mellow zenith]

So true lmao

[wary otter]

[gaunt jackal]

Same

[frank vale]

That's not from the devs.

[wary otter]

sure isnt, still

[gaunt jackal]

U sure they have isle modles

[sinful cove]

Modders get ahold of those

[gaunt jackal]

Oke

[sinful cove]

Ive seen some wack stuff with the isle models on deviantart too

[gaunt jackal]

Dident think about taht

[sinful cove]

Not dev work thankfully

[frank vale]

It's from some weird guy on deviantart that used to complain a lot in Isle's discussion Steam page.
I'd reccomend not posting that sort of content regardless

[gaunt jackal]

Ok sry

[sinful cove]

Most types of venom break down when ingested. Venom is injected or poured into the bloodstream, it isnt intended to be an effective poison. Poisoning bodies with venom doesn't really make sense except possibly for dilo because his venom is basically drugs

[gaunt jackal]

yeah, venom is used by animals to defend themself like a bee or to hunt like a snake. But it all realise on damaging it by either hurting it an attacker and it fleeing or breaking prey down by making their blood not stop flowing or destroying their nerves, all this with the help of blood sending it through the body and the body unable to destroy the poison enzymes. BUT when it get into the stomach if its not bacteria or a virus it will most likely get destroyed in ur stomach because ur stomach acid will break it down and if there's no wounds in ur moth where the poison can get into ur blood ur fine

[lean shoal]

as long as its not absorbed into your blood it wont do anything. venom=/= poison. also that mechanic would be rather broken and make two already crazy predators even worse animals to deal with.

[sinful cove]

Yeah idk why people seem to think a venomous animal injecting a body will make it inedible. Some weirdos out there put snake venom in their drinks and they're fine.

Some venoms can double as poison, but yeah that'd be broken

[tender hatch]

@desert sierra Ptera is about the size of a dryo. And its confirmed (I think?) Growth time is 1 hour

[sinful cove]

lol 4h to grow something that will probably be 1-2shot by a utah great idea

[tall bronze]

Hypno thought an hour sounded good, it's not officially confirmed.

[slim dragon]

Pteranodon gonna be an apex now

Well technically its the apex of flyers for now

[sinful cove]

lol sure he's the apex of that niche because he's the only one in it

[modest carbon]

Gonna take longer than teno/carno growth times to make a sky dryo

[slim dragon]

Longer than both growth times combined actually

[mellow zenith]

@ember ivy i'm not sure about that because its like saying that the others dino should not be allowed to see above the long grass when crouching in it.

[wary otter]

^

Deino will probably be one of the most balanced dinos since it literally relies on other players choosing to drink at the spot its at, since that probs only happens if you get lucky in the future you shouldnt get the disadvantage of being visible when you want to see whats going on once

[lavish radish]

^

[alpine plover]

Also quick question. Stego is faster than deino on land right?

[tender hatch]

@hollow canyon actually, that first suggestion, there was an animation where a Utah would slide on the ground on all 4s if it missed a pounce and landed on the ground.

It was showcased a while back

[hollow canyon]

4s of CC for missing the pounce is way too much in my opinion. I'd personally add like one second of CC where the Utahraptor recovers. I'd also very likely just use the animation that's already in the game - specifically the one that's used when Utahraptor tries to pounce one of the trees that make it fall down onto the ground. The whole animation is imo way too long to punish people that miss the pounce with it, however the last part of it(where the Utahraptor is already standing up and shaking its head left and right) could very likely be used for what I intend here. This would make it so that people actually think before using their pounce and if they decide to use it thoughtlessly e.g. in a fight against a Stego and miss it, while landing right next to it, they end up dying for it. If they miss it however and they land far away from it they should be fine more or less but it would add n additional dimension to using the pounce rather than just spamming rmb in the general direction of one's target.

[wary otter]

Actually i think deino is a little faster, but as we saw in the stream it looses stamina reaaaally quick when running on land, so should be fine

[crystal wharf]

another thing aken, maybe if utahs couldnt hover and slide away at run speed after getting treed would help

[hollow canyon]

that is a very fair point as well, I'm not sure why that happens tbh and I don't think it's intended

[mellow zenith]

yeah thats clearly a bug

[hollow canyon]

It is, a pretty amusing one though. The expressions on the faces of whatever it was I was fighting while I'm sliding on my butt in circles around them? Priceless

[sinful cove]

Why add something thats only purpose is to kill pteranodon lol just wait for quetz or something

[tame kindle]

even when we have a predator whose prey is mainly ptera that doesn't fix the flying situation
ranged abilities would be the answer

[slim dragon]

But if Alanqa is added, what will hunt it ? Problem unsolved.

[tame kindle]

some archerfish type ability with venom could be cool for a ptera predator that lives on land

[slim dragon]

poison-spitting dilos

[meager ice]

fire breathing T. rex

[gaunt jackal]

@alpine plover who will hunt alanqa

ummm

wat

they cant make one dinos group a max of 1

like will the devs say ur a lone wolf but nothing stoping you from grouping up

[mellow zenith]

Yeah that's why i want so debuff for overpacking/mixpacking

[gaunt jackal]

we still don't need some bs dino that's just going to be a big petra

[mellow zenith]

Oh yeah true

Ptera will be enough for now, i don't like "feedback" for dino that aren't even on the roadmap

[gaunt jackal]

like with his logic why wont petra hunt iteslf

[fallow kernel]

utah’s new acceleration really hurts its maneuverability which can effect some fights especially against carnos, how come every time i see a suggestion for the original fast acceleration no one likes it?

[meager ice]

Some people just want to watch Utah burn

[hollow canyon]

Because Utah is still too good even with the new acceleration. When the acceleration was introduced in the public QA branch I was still capable of running in circles around a Carno as a not even fully grown Utah. All I had to do was avoid skidding in this fight. Not to mention - Carno is meant to have the upper hand out in the open against Utahraptors. If you feel like Carno is getting the advantage just run into the jungle, it can't really fight you there and I've gotten away from Carnos that way pretty much every time.

Not to mention I generally just avoided skidding as a Utah ever since acceleration was introduced back in ~September(?).

[fallow kernel]

i have gotten used to the new acceleration and not losing your momentum in fights is the new trick. but i feel that carno should be punished so much more for skidding from full speed to 0 and back to full speed. rather than the nimble utah who is much lighter and a lower top speed. carno should have a faster acceleration i agree but when they both come to a stop or do a 180 carnos mobility afterward should be hindered significantly more than a utah

[hollow canyon]

Nah, Carno shouldn't have faster acceleration and it doesn't have faster acceleration from what I could see. In my experience it seemed to accelerate roughly half a second slower than a Utah. As for Utah itself. I personally think I wouldn't have gone after its acceleration while nerfing it but the devs and QA decided to address the issue this way. I suppose it could be ramping up a bit differently as Utah seems to gain very little speed in the initial second or so of accelerating and then picks up speed very quickly afterwards. It could perhaps be evened out a bit more if they meant to buff Utah's acceleration but I don't think it should necessarily accelerate faster than it does.

[mellow zenith]

If you check earlier feedback post in the balance chan, you'll see that utah acceleration has already been talked about. And there's a lot of people who want it to be faster

[tame kindle]

@proud swan maybe mind your language a bit, be can have a civil discussion. In feedback discussion not the feedback itself
why tf would something fast that has a hard time turning not stun itself when running into a wall?

[mellow zenith]

agree

[slim dragon]

Actually, even if animals never run into obstacles, players do. As stupid as it may seem, it happens and they shouldn't break the law of physics because the actual animal isn't supposed to do that.

So stunning is necessary

[tender prairie]

While I hate being helpless in water as a stego, an animal's momentum for tail swing would need hip stability. If it swings the tail otherwise all it does is push itself in the water, and even then not all that fast. It's a lesson to not get caught in the water, but you really shouldn't be able to do much there, bar maybe aquatic-adapted creatures with very strong, vertically-oriented tails

[alpine harbor]

@alpine plover is that for legacy?

[alpine plover]

yes i didnt know its not supported anymore, i bought the game on STEAM like 2 days ago

[alpine harbor]

Okay :)

[unreal igloo]

@alpine plover switch to the Evrima version of the game, you can do so in your settings on Steam. It doesn't have nearly as wide a range is Legacy but it is far better balanced.

[slim dragon]

And funnier (combat-wise)

[gaunt jackal]

If you like desync fights

[slim dragon]

I prefer that to legacy fighting

[mellow zenith]

agreed

[winged wagon]

Agreed, I feel like Legacy fighting is only spamming that one button most of the time

[sinful cove]

They don't want teamwork body carrying because it is apparently a nightmare to add

[wary otter]

Bugs would probably be endless as well

[gaunt jackal]

@pine quarry why would they fix legacy?

[pine quarry]

@gaunt jackal What do you mean by legacy? Sorry, I’m quite new to the game. I’ve only had it for 3 days.

[gaunt jackal]

they are remaking the game so why would they fix the old version of it

[pine quarry]

Oh, that’s good to hear.

It’s just annoying to lose 6+ hours of growth progress from starving to death on a semi realistic server because I couldn’t hit a Galli right under my body/chin or at my sides.

Even whilst turning my head towards it

[wary otter]

Do ya know about evrima?

[pine quarry]

I have a recording of the whole encounter too, you’d actually be quite shocked to see what hits weren’t landing

[gaunt jackal]

go into properties then betas and there you try evrima

[pine quarry]

Yeah, i’ve heard about it

Pretty much a brand new game right?

[wary otter]

yep

[gaunt jackal]

yeah its like the whole point of evrima

[wary otter]

right click the isle on steam, properties, betas, evrima if you wanna try it

[gaunt jackal]

remaking the game but better

[wary otter]

the current legacy version is basically unfixable

[pine quarry]

Is there more content/gameplay features or is it just a new map with new dinos?

[wary otter]

Stego, Hypsi, dryo, Tenonto, utah and carno are currently in but for me personally its more fun already, utahs can pounce, carnos can stun etc

plus the next update brings deino and ptera

[pine quarry]

Carnos would be fun to play. I’ve seen a few players play them and they’re quite nimble for their size. Dino abilities sound cool

[gaunt jackal]

dont know about that with all the desync, unoptimized game making you have shit fps and the server dc's

[wary otter]

yeah the desync should be fixed soon except the qa cant find the reason its happening

[pine quarry]

I don’t have trouble running the game, but at the same time I drop to 9 fps when nearby nests render even though I have an RTX 2080

[gaunt jackal]

[pine quarry]

It’s absurd

[gaunt jackal]

its bc the game is broken

[wary otter]

^

Youll have problems in evrima too but thats on the game, not on ya

[gaunt jackal]

they need to remake the netcode

[wary otter]

but personally i find evrima more fun already since the desyncs and crashes arent too bad rn

[pine quarry]

Ptera as in Pteradon?

[gaunt jackal]

yes

[wary otter]

yep, ptera and giant croc

[gaunt jackal]

and denio as in deniosuchus

and fish

[wary otter]

https://trello.com/c/Dkmk1NRd/45-regional-spawning-system you can see all the future updates here

Trello

Regional Spawning System

Are you tired of spending hours searching for that one friend who spawned on the opposite side of the map? So are we. The Regional Spawning System will allow players to select the general area that they want to spawn in. Gone are the days of spawnkilling!

Labels

Complete, Mechanic

[pine quarry]

Nice, can’t wait for the Pteradon to be banned from some servers due to it being the only thing that can fly

I can already see that happening

Which is dumb

[wary otter]

i can already see them spamming around 24/7

[pine quarry]

Pre historic dogfights kek

[gaunt jackal]

no

devs are making it balenced

[wary otter]

if you wanna see what theyre working on btw click on #phase-two-archive

also dont worry ptera wont really be able to do much dmg since its dryo-sized

[gaunt jackal]

and check this guy out he makes compilations of the dev streams

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7jExH2rhNwOCh0FsrqpPiA

[pine quarry]

pack of pteras start to violently tail ride a rex

[wary otter]

pff you wish

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/807731675735523388/ThenThereWasGar.mp4

[wary otter]

also tailriding doesnt work anymore ^^

[gaunt jackal]

no petras will crash into the ground

[wary otter]

all the dinos can turn on a spot now with animations, tailriding will get ya killed

[pine quarry]

That was literally poggers

[gaunt jackal]

not rly tho you can still as utah follow tip of the tail

[wary otter]

deino will also be able to drag other players underwater ad drown em

[wary otter]

if the carno is bad sure ye

[gaunt jackal]

i mean denio

[pine quarry]

Looks like Deino and Ptera will be some of my mains

[wary otter]

deinos should get into water tho

[pine quarry]

Ptera literally just so I can explore and learn the map without taking 3 hours to get from one side to the other

[wary otter]

you can also fish while flying

[gaunt jackal]

watch out for the crocs tho

[pine quarry]

Sounds like a big upgrade that they’re doing to the game

I like it

[wary otter]

cant wait to get snatched by em

[wary otter]

if ya look at trello youll see theres even more coming

[pine quarry]

Man if they ever add aquatic life so you can play as like Megalodon for example

That would be sick

[wary otter]

im sure they will at some point, gonna take years tho >.>

[pine quarry]

I just wanna play as a Mosasaur man

That one scene from Jurassic World made me fall in love with them

[candid tulip]

They talked about possibly doing an aquatic DLC after the main game was finished

[rapid charm]

@viscid mica what now

[viscid mica]

?

What

[viscid mica]

What

[rapid charm]

what's the feedback...?

[modest badge]

@viscid mica me over here waiting for people to realize legacy is abandoned and will never be updated again

[viscid mica]

This is bs this is unfair down right hearchy

[winged wagon]

Why is it unfair

[viscid mica]

Cuz I don’t know what version is getting updates then.

[sinful cove]

evrima because they dont care about legacy anymore til they delete it lol

[winged wagon]

I don’t think Pachy will be too weak tho.

[pine quarry]

Do you guys think they’ll be adding humans to Evirma?

[sinful cove]

Yes

[hallow rose]

obviously

[wary otter]

Thats confirmed soo

[rapid bison]

If the isle was realistic imagine a trike one-shotting a rex without it even being a headshot

[obtuse shuttle]

if isle was realistic rex would have the biggest stam pool in the game, and the speed of giga, i doubt we want that

[hollow canyon]

Depends, the Rex that's estimated to move at the speed of Giga was also estimated as smaller than Giga(6500kg vs 7000kg to reach about equal speeds). The big Rexes are thought to have moved quite a bit slower than that.

[obtuse shuttle]

well, yeah forgot about it, it would still have an absurd amount of stamina no one wants to deal with

[pine quarry]

I feel like rexes should have more stamina if they’re as slow as they are. Prey already outruns them unless they’re AI. Rexes are believed to have run between 36km/h-40km irl

I have no trouble growing a rex, but once i’m at adult i’ve only starved to death and it’s really demoralizing considering i’ve got 6+ hours on that dino

[sinful cove]

Because rex is supposed to ambush not chase things across the map. It is definitely easier to hunt with giga but its not hard to burst out at people with rex once you get the hang of it

[pine quarry]

yeah but at that point you just have to get lucky enough for them to get that close without seeing you in the first place, no?

[sinful cove]

Considering things in ev seem to be getting a speed boost rex probably will too if it is remaining as an ambusher

Idk about total luck, just make a good skin and be good at judging angles from the target's pov

Sometimes it is luck, yeah, but many things are

[pine quarry]

i mean i guess making a white rex with red spots on top doesn’t help me in the slightest

[sinful cove]

lol yea that could very well be it

[alpine plover]

I think its bs that a rex could run 40km

recent testing has found its bones would literally shatter under the stress

[sinful cove]

Yea i cant see that fat hulk realistically going that fast

If they can make it look good and balance it though its fine

[lucid kelp]

well ingame they can run that anyway in ambush

[hollow canyon]

While certain tyrannosaurs are believed to have ran that fast T.rex is not among them having a far more humble speed of 33km/h and going down in speed as it amassed weight while growing, with the largest individuals likely moving quite a bit slower than 30km/h.

The playstyle of the Tyrannosaurus rex in the legacy branch is that of an ambush predator. It's not for everything and it requires you to have a pretty good idea of what you're doing. Rex does have some good match ups where it doesn't have to pull off that good of an ambush(Giga, Trike Sucho) due to being capable of running those dinosaurs down but you technically still have to get close enough to them to pull it off.

Not to mention - Rex very likely won't be an ambush hunter in Evrima. Its presented trot animation implied an absurd speed that would outpace the legacy Giganotosaurus, very likely making Rex an endurance predator although it's hard to say something for certain as the animal isn't yet ready for the release.

[vagrant inlet]

Every animal has a faster trot in evrima, I guess that makes them endurance hunters as well?

[rapid bison]

which trot anim

[hollow canyon]

There's a difference between "having a better trot" and goddamn jogging with your basic trot animation. As for where you can see it, it was available on a couple youtube videos that people snatched from the streams.

https://youtu.be/TDGbLB_xXpg?t=286 Here you you, that's a "trotting" Rex

[rapid bison]

That shit's so lazy

It's just the run animation slowed down

and the eating anim

[hollow canyon]

I'm not gonna comment on most of that but that's not Rex's running animation from the legacy. That one was very characteristic.

[rapid bison]

No i'm saying that was the slowed down version of the run animation of the video that was a few seconds before the trot

[hollow canyon]

Few seconds before trot was the eating animation I think?

[rapid bison]

Before the eating animation my memory was messed up and i thought the eating one was after the trot

[hollow canyon]

After that the whole thing is the trot, also I wouldn't panic about them looking badly yet because they are still WiP(quite visibly wip because I agree those don't look that well yet)

Yea that one is also different to legacy's run(I'd argue it's not for the better tbh but well, let's give it some time)

[dry glen]

Rather than nixing Deino's water-detection ripple mechanic, I'd suggest balancing future and current aquatic-based and -adjacent creatures so as to produce less or no ripples, depending on speed. For instance, an Austro standing stationary in the shallows would produce no special blue ripples, or a Minmi walking (not trotting) along the bottom of the water would produce very faint ones, as opposed to bold blue symbols like the ones seen on-stream

[tender prairie]

That is a good idea

[limber elbow]

why are people still putting request in for legacy?