balance-feedback-discussion

[orchid depot]

why is it's tail bouncing around like that

[lean shoal]

but that run is what we dont want.

[raw cypress]

ASAAAaa

[lean shoal]

it breaks its back.

[orchid depot]

EW IT CAN SPRINT

[raw cypress]

That gave me a stroke

[orchid depot]

WTF IS THIS

[lean shoal]

ark

[orchid depot]

IT JUST JUMPED OVER A SAND DUNE WITHOUT LEGBREAK??

it's repeatedly breaking its back

[lean shoal]

thats what we dont want. animations that break bones muscles and anatomy.

[orchid depot]

🖐️ 😔

[raw cypress]

carno moment

[lean shoal]

everyone said that carnos tail should be stiffer and it went from https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/763544302038155284/CarnoRun.mp4 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/766096832001474580/CarnoRunV2.mp4

so its getting a third iteration of running animations.

[orchid depot]

so the first one has no weight
the second one has some weight, but the tail became spaghetti

good job bryan

[raw cypress]

free gerry

[lean shoal]

the only issues was that it was weightless the head was too high up and the tail was floppy on the first one. they made 2 proplems worse and the third barely changed.

[orchid depot]

slow clap

[lean shoal]

also the legs on the first looked like it was jogging not running.

[finite solstice]

Still kinda looks like a jog ngl

[lean shoal]

tbf carnos tail should just not move left to right when it runs.

[orchid depot]

it would just be better if they used legacy animation with a few alterations

legacy animation took advantage of carno's stride capability

that's what i want

[lean shoal]

they cant use the legacy stuff because its rig was so old.

[orchid depot]

they should at least use it for reference

[lean shoal]

they should have taken insparation though.

[orchid depot]

mmhmm

[cloud urchin]

@cedar kettle large theropods don't need a tail smash, a kick will suffice.

[obtuse shuttle]

You dont want docktahs again (which i agree) but dont care about "dockhypsis"?

[cloud urchin]

They're easy one shots with small stomachs. They can't hide up their forever...

[obtuse shuttle]

docktahs are already unviable, they have to actually search for food, food wont spawn around them

[cloud urchin]

Dock Hypsies aren't predators with fair dominating match ups

[finite solstice]

If utahs are able to get up trees then hypsi's main defence/escape is completely nullified

[cloud urchin]

The art of 'docking' for them is a trade for being able to kill anything, so no-I don't care.

[obtuse shuttle]

how about we dont let anyone be completely safe?

[cloud urchin]

How would Hypsi be completely safe?

[finite solstice]

Ahem, herra?

[obtuse shuttle]

if it can be in a tree and no one can reach its completely safe

herrera isnt coming any time soon

[cloud urchin]

For 30 minutes? Sure

[finite solstice]

It's still gonna be in-game, and I just don't see a, what, 500kg or more predator climbing a tree

[cloud urchin]

Also, we're assuming it can reach the tree before the Utah reaches it

[obtuse shuttle]

if hypsi being safe for 30 minutes is fine so is utah, is fine for both or bad for both no special treatment

[cloud urchin]

@finite solstice to be fair, a Utah shouldn't even be jumping its own height, but that's one thing

[finite solstice]

Utah is already faster than hypsi (at least I'd imagine it would be) and hypsi is tiny with a tiny stomach, so it needs to get down and eat a lot more frequently than utah

Utah is one of the fastest and most nimble/maneuverable carnivores in the game with a lot of stam, it doesn't need trees as a safe spot

[cloud urchin]

@obtuse shuttle back to you, Hypsi being up there is fine for 30 minutes...and then it starves and has to come down willingly or from dying. So Hypsie perching is fine.

The reason why this isn't okay with Utah is because Utah is one of the fastest creatures in game with kill potential.

[obtuse shuttle]

i alreday said utahs cant even be on a safe place (never said trees) for long, they need to find food, hypsi can just find a tree close to a bush

[finite solstice]

Good, so they already have their "safe spaces" ie rocks etc., they don't need trees too

[obtuse shuttle]

again, i never said trees

[finite solstice]

The discussion was about trees before, unless I was the one who misunderstood something

[obtuse shuttle]

also hyspsi isnt even supposed to climb trees, only supposed to jump on high places, some of them just happen to be trees

[cloud urchin]

Several things. First, move bushes away from trees (heigh points in general) and/or put them on a longer respawn timer. Second: Who does Hypsi hurt by eating a bush?

The discussion uses trees cause that's just an easy reference.

[obtuse shuttle]

"Second: Who does Hypsi hurt by eating a bush?", i dont like giving special treatmen to something because it doesnt eat players

herbis and carnis shoudl be balanced the same way

an hypsi sized carni should be able to go to places as high as an hypsi

[cloud urchin]

Special Treament? We're talking about a playable that is basically Viable Taco

It can be one shot by everyone, except another Hyspi

If trample dmg were in, it would just die on passive.

This is less of Special Treatment

[obtuse shuttle]

i dont think you read everything that i said

[cloud urchin]

And more of Trading certain factors for Viability

I did

[finite solstice]

Herra will be the climber, utahs don't need trees also. Again, hypsi (most likely) will still be slower than utah. It's not special treatment, it's just that something like utah should not be in trees in the first place.

[obtuse shuttle]

giving it special treatment due its small size is ok, giving it special treatment because "it doesnt hurt anyone eating a bush" is not

[raw cypress]

"dockhypsis" are more realistic i think
it's common for small birds to hang around in one spot

[obtuse shuttle]

Realism
The isle
Pick one

[cloud urchin]

That's not Special Treament, that's balancing

Special Treament is giving it all that on top of Kill Potential

Which Hypsi does not have

What I did is try to give Hypsi a better hold of a certain niche so it wouldn't kick the bucket

Think of it this way, does Pteranadon have Special Privilege with the ability to Fly?

[obtuse shuttle]

again

you dont seem to understand that im ok with balancing with sizes

is just the "it doesnt hurt by eating bush" bullshit what i dont like

an hypsi sized carnivore dino should be able to reach the same places

[finite solstice]

It's also about stats. Utah would absolutely body both hypsi and herra, but, like Legendary said, something smaller and weaker (for example velo) could also get the climbing niche since its stats don't completely overshadow hypsi's and herras. Also gliding velo when

[cloud urchin]

Utah isn't a Hypsi sized carnivore, so I don't see the problem. Hypsie is barely a quarter of Utah's size.

[obtuse shuttle]

I really think you only read half of what i say

[lean shoal]

velo could be more if a swiss army knife that climbs and is better at raiding burrows.

[obtuse shuttle]

^ no need to say more from my part

[cloud urchin]

No no. I'm just replying to it slowly, doing something else

To get to the other things you're saying, if there was a Hypsi sized carnivore-great, bring it in. But that isn't Utah.

[lean shoal]

velo is not much larger

[obtuse shuttle]

i never said utah was an hypsi sized carni

[cloud urchin]

In fact, I say Bring It On

Give me Aboreal Predators that threaten Hypsi and compete in the treeptop

But, until that day comes

Recognize that everything in game besides Stego and MAYBE Tenonto, can run Hypsi down

And one shot it

[lean shoal]

thats because its shorter than the grass

its running animation is sped up a lot and its moving at 28kmph because its so small.

[cloud urchin]

@lean shoal hey, not disagreeing, just observing.

[lean shoal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/758452638366302268/HypsiRun.mp4

[cloud urchin]

So...how do we make Hyspi compete?

Let it hop in trees

[lean shoal]

sounds like your being outwardly hostile about it.

[lean shoal]

it can stop a predator if it lands its spit and it can also jump into trees.

[cloud urchin]

Me? No. Just trying to explain to the other guy why Hypsi sitting in trees isn't bad thing

[lean shoal]

not to mention you will never be able to spot one in the jungle.

[cloud urchin]

It can be very hard to spot, true, but what happens when you do?

You kill it

It has acid spit? Depends whether or not it's easy to land.

[lean shoal]

if you practice with it landing the acid spit could be easy. it could also charge up its jump to leap over something like a carno.

i do think velo needs a niche but velo is planned to favor protoceratops and could be a good burrow raider.

[cloud urchin]

If velo ends up hunting Hypsi, more power to it. I've friends who wanted it to be an allrounder.

But in Hypsi's case, landing that spit looks difficult.

And second, it looks like you have to be 'close'

Meaning it is a near last ditch effort to survive against animals that can reach and kill you in under two seconds.

And then you have to hope this happened near a tall point where you jump to because any sustained chase is a death wish.

[lean shoal]

velo could be an allrounder.

[grave veldt]

does stego count as an apex?

[lean shoal]

it should and likely will.

[grave veldt]

cuz if it does it should be balanced as one as well

aka long growth, slower but pretty strong

well actually i think they got the strength right it 2 shots tenos so

probably a 1 shot actually if the teno doesnt sit it'll bleed out

[lean shoal]

its got 4-5 hours of growth.

punch confirmed that.

[grave veldt]

thats what i wa thinking

was*

[dry badger]

@cedar kettle That would be better suited for #general-feedback .. but good idea!

[floral flame]

Hypsi seems like way too "trolly" of a creature to be an instant adult. Just my opinion

[lean shoal]

too bad hypsi is the size of a small dog.

giving it a juvenile stage requires more prep and it would grow in like 5 mins anyway.

[floral flame]

Yea, but you can run around spitting in eyes. Die, and repeat with no real time sink.

[lean shoal]

does it matter at all if it would just grow back to adult within 5 mins anyway?

spitting costs hunger for hypsi.

[brave rune]

@tidal jacinth Using mud heals you faster.

It "clogs" the bleeding wounds and appears to help even after bleed

[wary otter]

@tender ermine wouldnt work cuz the claw attack becomes a bite while trotting and running

[tender ermine]

at the very least you should be able to claw if you let go of forward, having to be still to claw is a pain in the arse

[wary otter]

thats true but eh

[tender ermine]

more than anything just make it more lenient to use

[woeful kiln]

hypsi can spit while moving tho... @cinder iron

[cinder iron]

It can? It didnt seem to work for me

Suppose it was some sort of bug or something then

[minor valley]

how much is full grown carno bite force ?

[grave veldt]

Is teno more balanced now?

[desert wave]

Yes

[grave veldt]

Good to know

[desert wave]

In a 1v1 tenonto demolishes Utahs now with ease

[grave veldt]

Finally

As it should’ve been

[marble pond]

lol

[cyan radish]

Tenno against carno feels tough

[grave veldt]

rip

was hoping it would be a 50/50 for both parties

if it was 1v1

honestly they should make teno and carno both 50/50's with same 2.5 hour grow time

[cedar shore]

@wheat field wrong channel

[wheat field]

Its all the same to me

Only difference is 6hr cooldown

[cedar shore]

regardeless, carno needs rebalancing imo

[wheat field]

Not really

[cedar shore]

im pretty disapointed that utahs dont pose any thret to carnos at all

utahs just became obscolete to carnos

[grave veldt]

a group of utahs should be able to kill a carno

[cedar shore]

yes

they dont stand a chance..

[wheat field]

A group of utahs CAN kill a carno

[cedar shore]

have you tried?

[wheat field]

Yes

Hard

But I killed one

[cedar shore]

you sure it was a full adult carno?

and not a sub?

[wheat field]

Absolutely

Just gotta get 2 people to pounce em

Which is damn hard cause theh are speedy

[cedar shore]

Must have been very bad, since if the carno gets low it can just run away waddle and run further away

• it 3 shots utahs

like wtf

[wheat field]

That is u realistic

Carno can one shot utahs

[grave veldt]

well 3 shotting utahs is fine

[cedar shore]

utah takes 2 hrs carno takes around 2,5 hrs

[wheat field]

My carno took 5hrs cause server kept crashing 😭

[golden coral]

1.30 for utah I think, it's less than tenno and tenno is 2 hours, unless things have changed

[grave veldt]

teno was like 2 or 2.5

[cedar shore]

yeah they seem to have nerfed utah weight down to what dryo was

[grave veldt]

utah was 1.5

yes its like 600kg i think

[cedar shore]

If they only buffed utah weight it would actually have a chance of taking down a carno

500 something weight

[wheat field]

Carno needs a buff if stego is post to be the same tier

[cedar shore]

what??

[grave veldt]

what

[cedar shore]

Stego is apex pretty much

it takes 6 hrs to grow

[grave veldt]

stego is supposed to be an apex technically

[cedar shore]

yes

No way carno needs buffing

[wheat field]

Who is carno post to be tiered with?

[grave veldt]

allo

s

tenos

[cedar shore]

tenantos

[grave veldt]

those type of dino

s

allo would probably be like carnos nemesis

[cedar shore]

its so overpowered rn they prob wil deploy a balance patch soon buffing utahs or nerfing it

[wheat field]

Prob keep carno the same and buff utah

[cedar shore]

yeah

[grave veldt]

yeah that works

[cedar shore]

mabye reduce carno size a bit too

Because it hUUUge compared to utahs

[grave veldt]

i think giving carno sum weight would be nice

[cedar shore]

much much bigger than legeacy

[wheat field]

Nah carno sizs is realistic

[cedar shore]

did they reduce utah size or something?

[grave veldt]

carno should take a lil while to get to top speed

not just a few seconds

[cedar shore]

oh yeah

it should be like in legeacy

[grave veldt]

yea

[wheat field]

Momentum and all that jazz

[grave veldt]

yee

oh and carnos hunger

[cedar shore]

it stops way to fast too imo

[wheat field]

The fact that carno can turn on the dime tho is terrible

[cedar shore]

dont even get me started on hunger we all know its low

[grave veldt]

carnos hunger is just

lmao

[cedar shore]

i mean bad

same goes for utahs

[grave veldt]

actually just hunger in general

[cedar shore]

dinos should give 2x more food

a hypsi is like 15% for an utah

ik

[wheat field]

Oh it loaded

[cedar shore]

tbh i feel like combat is very jonkey rn

[grave veldt]

yea carnos turning on a dime is pretty bad

[cedar shore]

like compared to legeacy a skilled utah could take down a carno but a max skilled utah on envrima? no way

[grave veldt]

which is good tbh

[wheat field]

I feel like the perk system is gonna make it just that much harder tho

[grave veldt]

a single utah shouldnt be killing a carno

[cedar shore]

thats what i liked about legeacy utahs, worst dino if you dont know how to play them, absolute best dino if you can use it well

huge skill gap

i mean, if its very good it should. But its not supposed to be easy and carno should have an advantage

[grave veldt]

yes if the carno is not very good it should die to a skilled utah player

[cedar shore]

yeah

[grave veldt]

plus the carno can just dip

[cedar shore]

yeah thats what i hate the most

I have gotten a couple of carnos low as a lone utah by supprise pouncing them and they just dip..

cant catch them

perhaps reduce its stam by a lot?

[wheat field]

I feel the utah used to have a chance because of carno mobility and Utah flexibility but now utah just stops dead in its tracks as soon as it touches carno and dies cause it can’t escape a very fast creature that turns on the dime

[cedar shore]

it should keep its insane speed since thats what makes it so uniqe

[grave veldt]

actually reducing their stam is a good idea actually

cuz they are big dinod

dinos*

they can give sum weight to the carno and reduce stam

[cedar shore]

yeah they were estimated to have pretty bad stamina by paleontologists

[grave veldt]

basically an ambush predator

[cedar shore]

yeah

like reducing its stam could be a very good way of balancing it

so that they can catch utahs running away but will eventually get run down by utahs trying to kill it

[grave veldt]

yea

it would be a good balance

[cedar shore]

like acro on legeacy

[grave veldt]

or they can make its stam regen rly slow

[cedar shore]

can catch everything allmost but get caught by nearly everything

[grave veldt]

yea

[cedar shore]

nah keep its stam regen fair

low stam regen wont balance it it just makes it a pain..

[grave veldt]

tru

no one wants to sit for hours

getting stam lol

[cedar shore]

yeah lol

[grave veldt]

also i made a post in feedback saying stego should have a buckle

but that already exists so

lol

[cedar shore]

but i swear carno just feels way to big..

like too big

massive

they should be of similar size to tenantos not stegos

[grave veldt]

well carno was pretty much the same size a allo

allos tenos and carnos should be in that same sort of tier

[cedar shore]

yeah

allo should be stronger though

relying purely on its ambush

[grave veldt]

yea allo should be the strongest of those

unless it gets tail slammed

or rammed from the side

[cedar shore]

i actually havent tried tenanto yes in update 2

[grave veldt]

apprently its a lot better

[cedar shore]

i wana see how they do against carnos with the new tail knowdown

[grave veldt]

it kills utahs pretty good now

[cedar shore]

yeah i could imagne

[grave veldt]

ppl have said that its hard for teno against carno

but idk

[cedar shore]

i havent tried yeet so i cant say much

btw wasnt heavy bleed supposed to reduce your stam by a lot? Since right now i fee like bleed does nothing

[grave veldt]

ye

i have no idea about bleed

cuz ive been just testing hypsi and stuff

[cedar shore]

oh lol

its very easy to catch hypsis as utah

[grave veldt]

i tried to test stego but i keep getting yeeted lol

[cedar shore]

idk if thats good or bad

i hate stego growth man but i think it will be worth it

[grave veldt]

not from other players but my own internet justs yeets me from a server

[cedar shore]

strongest dino in the game

[grave veldt]

oh yea stego is the strongest dino in game

and when they fix the pounce bug

it'll be even better

[cedar shore]

pounce bug?

[grave veldt]

yes

apparently theres a pounce bug which I'm not entirely sure on the exact specifications

but it sometimes bugs out the buckle animation

i saw this on stego

[cedar shore]

I hope utahs can pounce stegos and not die.. like i was expecting utahs to be able to take down a mighty stego if they had numbers and were strategical

[grave veldt]

yea 4-5 utahs can kill a stego

if their

playing right

[cedar shore]

nice

[grave veldt]

and not just running in

lol

[cedar shore]

very nice

pvp in envrima is kinda scuffed though

not even close to how it was on legeacy

[grave veldt]

it takes 3-4 full pounces from a utah to kill a stego

were probably not used to evirma

plus theres bugs n stuff so

[cedar shore]

yeah but combat on legeacy feels a lot more smooth and predictable

[grave veldt]

yea but no one wants a rex face tanking a trike lol

[cedar shore]

tru

[grave veldt]

actually a rex shouldnt be face tanking a stego tail either lol

[cedar shore]

thing is you cant really go up behind a carno and bite it without getting hit yourself..

and i feel like that kinda ruins pack hunting

[grave veldt]

they need to give carno more weight

[cedar shore]

like right now the only way utahs can take down something bigger is to pounce

[grave veldt]

u can turn on max speed way too fast

[cedar shore]

yeah

give it a large slide or something

[grave veldt]

and it turns way too fast as well

[cedar shore]

oh yeah

[grave veldt]

its supposed to be like 2 tons

[cyan radish]

Slow down the acceleration of carno

[grave veldt]

yes

[cedar shore]

how heavy is the full adult though?

[cyan radish]

Also juvi carno is lightning

[grave veldt]

np idea

servers kept crashing so im not sure

[cedar shore]

it should take like 2 seconds to reach normal running speed and like 6 seconds without getting blocked to reach true full speed

[grave veldt]

oh yea juvi carno is speed

[cedar shore]

juvi carno WAAAAY to fast

[grave veldt]

lmao

[cedar shore]

it spawns faster than an adult utah

• you cant pounce them for some reason it just glitched you right off

[cyan radish]

Tenonto should be able to “stumble” carno with a tail slam

[grave veldt]

wdym

[cedar shore]

nah it should get knocked down hard

carno has bleed which gives it a huge advantage over tenos

[cyan radish]

Like stun it on its feet for about 1 second, enough to get in a claw attack

[cedar shore]

yeah sounds fair

[grave veldt]

that sounds pretty fair

if u get hit with a tail slam the stumble is expected

[cyan radish]

Tenno can bleed too, but I was not able to 1v1 a Carno as Tenno.

[cedar shore]

oh did you die?

[grave veldt]

a tail slam should 4 shot a carno

[cyan radish]

Also the claw attack feels tougher to use now

[cedar shore]

carno needs a nerf in its weight stat

utah should be around 800 as usual and carno 1600 something

it will still make it very powerful

[grave veldt]

well apprently carno weighs 2,200 lbs to 6,600 lbs

[cedar shore]

no wonder its so strong

[grave veldt]

so 2 tons is an ok weight

[cedar shore]

1.800 is more balanced imo

even if they had the same weight it would still be a pretty fair fight since carno is faster and can knock it donw n stuff

not that they should but yknow..

[grave veldt]

a teno is supposed to weigh 1-2 tonnes

so i think having carno in that range would be good

a carno shouldnt have more hp then teno

[cyan radish]

Nerf for weight, damage and mobility to be honest.

[grave veldt]

yea

[cedar shore]

yes

please

[grave veldt]

the mobility is crazy lol

the juvi man

i wanna be the juvi all day

that thing is light speed

[cedar shore]

i wish utahs could single handedly take on carnos if you are skilled, that would be SO much fun to do

[cyan radish]

Utah feels more agile/fluid now too which is great

[grave veldt]

how is teno vs utah rn?

most ppl said its a lot better but idk

[cedar shore]

idk havent tried

[grave veldt]

same

[cedar shore]

noone wants to play utah rn which is understandable

i mean teno

I have only heard a single one i think

[grave veldt]

itll be like that for a little bit

just cuz the new dinos came out

eventually it'll even out

[cedar shore]

ik ik

[toxic crypt]

Utah should not 1v1 carno imo, it's a smaller more agile predator

[cedar shore]

i know but just because its unrealistic doenst mean that a skilled player should be physicly unable too

its a game not an accurate dinosaur representation

[toxic crypt]

I'm not saying it from a realism perspective, though

[cedar shore]

and its very booring to just get deleted by carnos

ok

[toxic crypt]

Carno is bigger and fills a niche of small game hunter. It shouldn't be getting hunted by small game.

[cedar shore]

well it shouldnt be invincible to the only other predator on envirma rn

[grave veldt]

carno 1v1ing a teno should be 50/50

[toxic crypt]

Utah should run away from carno when given the chance, using its better agility to get away

[cedar shore]

still, if a player is good, he should be able to kill an opponent. That goes for pretty much any game. Not just the isle

thats littearly balance

[toxic crypt]

No. A skilled velo should not be able to kill a rex, that would be absurd.

[cedar shore]

well its not supposed to be played

and it cant

[toxic crypt]

Some species are prey for other bigger species, and it's fair for them to be more or less unable to kill other species

Utah should never be 1v1ing a carno. Killing a carno should require more than one utah.

[cedar shore]

Well they shouldnt be just prey. Whats the fun in that?

[grave veldt]

well i mean dryo is basically prey

but ppl play it

[toxic crypt]

They aren't. They're the smallest carnivore, they still hunt other herbivores

[tepid narwhal]

I hope utahs at least can escape a carno, otherwise I'm not going to have much fun

[toxic crypt]

They are also able to kill some relatively large species, especially in a pack

[cedar shore]

they should still be able to hunt down carnos if strategic so that carno actually has something that could kill it once and for all

even if its unrealistic

[toxic crypt]

Stego can kill carno.

[cedar shore]

Cant catch it though?

[toxic crypt]

Carno isn't invincible, utah just happens to have a hard time 1v1ing it

[cedar shore]

and most carnos avoid stegos entirely

not just 1v1ing any amount wont stop a carno

[grave veldt]

stego 2 shots carno in body but basically a 1 shot cuz bleed

[toxic crypt]

Utah should be one of carno's primary sources of food

That's just false. A pack of utah can kill a carno

[cedar shore]

have you tried?

I certainly have..

[toxic crypt]

Utah packs can kill stegos, I'm certain they can kill carnos as well

[cedar shore]

but why should utahs be carnos primary food source though?

whats the fun in that?

from a game perspective

[toxic crypt]

Feel free to bring this suggestion for utahs 1v1ing carnos up to a more populated chat, though

[cedar shore]

lets just keep it here

all concluded, envrima just needs a bigger skill gap for players. Thats pretty much all

[hollow burrow]

utahs will feel alot better against carnos as soon as the absurd carno acceleration is dialed back

as it stands the poor turn of carnos is completely negated by that acceleration

so utahs have neither speed or agility on carnos

[tepid narwhal]

oof

[hollow burrow]

its almost as quick as release utah on evrima (in my experience at least)

[grave veldt]

yea its way too fast

[finite solstice]

Carno as a stego killer?

[novel tulip]

Carno does not kill stegos

[finite solstice]

And part of carno's gimmick is that it's the fastest carnivore in the Isle, discluding strains

[true ginkgo]

carnos are made to be a high speed small prey hunter.

not designed to kill stegos

it's not meant to be a utah counterpart either. it's intentionally much larger and more powerful.

[finite solstice]

Its concept art literally showed carno bullying all the small guys, where did this stego thing even came from?

[true ginkgo]

People assume if it's put in the same patch, they must be made to be predator and prey.

carno juvie does seem fast even by carno standards though. Then again fun juvies is important to make all growth stages fun.

[finite solstice]

I do agree that carno is kinda broken atm with its insane acceleration and brake animation, but Utah is much more maneuverable and can easily lose a carno in the jungle

[cyan radish]

Since tenonto does not have the option to outrun a carno, it should have a slight edge in combat combat against one.

[flint locust]

@/E3S6

Carno has to be nerfed on evrima. Its rediculously rapid. And does too much dmg comparison to utah. So y carnos need its speed if they r targeted to hunt stegos? Dinos should be as good as is player not the specie by itself. Otherwise its too unbalanced. Anyways it lookes that devs just made some dinos on its own not carried about the diete and how it should look like. U need a game designer i guess so he could make all the balance stuff unlike it is now. Carno's and utah's hunger should be nerfed by x1.5. And time too death becouse of starvation should be around 30 mins(with 0 food)
I uh- don't agree with this at all.. Carnos aren't specifically meant to hunt stegos ( possibly in a pack ). It does a lot of damage when compared to a utah because it's much larger and stronger than it 🤦‍♀️

Ay, nerf rex it does too much damage compared to a utah amirite

[finite solstice]

How strong is a carno's bite in evrima atm? Because if we're going by legacy terms, iirc carno had around the same bite force as Utah. Its ram ability should be its main damage dealer

[flint locust]

Forgot rip

[finite solstice]

Carno shouldn't body utahs with its bite, but a Utah should definitely get punished for getting ramed by a carno. Again, more maneuverable and shit

[hollow canyon]

Carno's bite might've been similar to Utah's in legacy in raw numbers but actual power behind it was over twice greater due to how weight impacted combat. Utah and Carno are fine the way they are rn and Utah should most definitely not be 1v1ing a fully grown Carno unless Carno's just really bad.

[cyan radish]

I would agree, though I would hope that a Utah would be able to escape a carno if it is seen by one

[novel tulip]

Utahs should only be able to outmaneuver carno and escape, not reliably 1v1 it or outspeed it

I agree that the carno basically has ninja fast turn radius now and it needs to be nerfed but thats all

[flint locust]

Agreed, needs a longer drift imo

right now doesnt it almost instantly stop even when running at full speed

[novel tulip]

Yes

They need to bring the legacy feel of movement back imo

[flint locust]

ick, not exactly the movement- the freedom evrima has is great, but I do see your point

[novel tulip]

Legacy was slower and more precise

Right now fighting just feels like spam biting the last place you saw the dot move while everything zigzags around you

[flint locust]

Rip, can't say I agree with that but alright

[cyan radish]

Legacy was essentially a dog-fighting game for the combat. This feels much better and looks more like a fight than circle chase.

[flint locust]

Wym?

tailriding ?

Oh sorry my brain didnt work mb 😂

[novel tulip]

Its hard to call it a fight when everything is moving faster than your eyes can even comprehend

Imo they should slow the speed of all dinos proportionally so its actually playable

[flint locust]

sounds a little bit like lag, when Im fighting its perfectly fine

[true ginkgo]

yeah speeds seem crazy high

means any latency at all and it turns into a teleport battle

apart from that the movement is so much better than legacy. feels like controlling animals rather than dino shaped cars.

[novel tulip]

I only get around 10-20 frames so the other dinos appear on my screen for like 5 individual frames at the speed they run

If they turned the speed down it would be more enjoyable

[flint locust]

I get 30-40 ;w; my bad, maybe try to fix your computer settings/lower in game settings

[novel tulip]

Trust me I've tried everything, that's the best I can do

[indigo carbon]

Just died to well coordinated carno group

Stfu

Who else thinks they should add pikachu for balance

[flint locust]

Juvi stego 1 shotting makes sense because it cant run from anything because its slower than everything
A slug killing a gecko makes sense because it's slower than everthing

[wintry hamlet]

How in any way is that a fair comparison

1. Theres not many animals in evrima currently. Most of which are built for speed. Stego is meant to be slow and hard hitting
2. A snail has no offensive capabilities unlike a stego.

3. Your making it sound like you want stego to not be viable at all, when its already the slowest creature ingame

4. Its kinda needed since the audio issues make it extremely difficult to pinpoint where adult stegos are for protection

[flint locust]

They're talking about the juvi

[wintry hamlet]

Wait does it 1 shot

[flint locust]

Yep

1 shots juvi carnos

And all the other juvis

[wintry hamlet]

Everything else at juvi stage?

[flint locust]

Yes sorry had to edit

And adult hypsi too

I wasnt expecting a juvi stego to 1 shot me as a hypsi, it was the fse

[wintry hamlet]

How big is juvi carno compared to juvi stego

Heard it got a size buff

[flint locust]

I dunno about the buff size, I just know they were around the same size and it kept 1 shotting me

Kosing juvi stegos are a juvi carnos worst enemy

[wintry hamlet]

Pooosibly 2 shot juvi carno. Juvi teno and stego should be 3 shot, anything else should be 1 shot

[flint locust]

I actually haven't tried juvi teno against stego, ill try it out on a sec. Also yeah i agree

I meant hatchling growths oops! Anyways- stego 1 shots them all, but yes, juvi stego 1 shots juvi teno ( admin accidentally grew us both to juvi so Im just assuming hatch stego also 1 shots them since the juvi does )

[signal nimbus]

Stego can buck btw yall if ya press RMB

to get utahs off and what not

[grave veldt]

yea i learned that a bit too late

[flint locust]

Can carno get them off?

[signal nimbus]

I'm not sure about that yet

[grave veldt]

interesting question

it probably could

but idk

[crystal wharf]

@alpine plover this is the exact same thing as the utah dryo speed case, how, how did you manage to die to a carno as a hypsi, there is one very clear answer as to how you escape, hide, and turn, carno turns like a boat, you can outmaneuver it then spit at it, then, just, run away, its not that hard

[modest carbon]

trees and bushes, if a utah can escape a carno, a hypsi should be able to as well

[crystal flame]

Teno Vs Carno needs some sort of help.. but I don't want teno to be semi aquatic. I'm not sure how to balance it.

[modest carbon]

yeah, I mean they are the same weight. Teno doesn't look quite like 2 tons though

[desert wave]

Why is there a 6 hour cooldown in balance feedback ?

[true ginkgo]

yeah I think that stego should have a smaller, weaker swing which it can use while moving. Much less area it effects so it can't be used for offence though.

It will be especially useful later on when the super powerful carnis are added. Stegos best defence would be walk away while wagging its tail.

[vestal gust]

Just feeling like teno isn't doing to crash hot at the moment. It doesn't seem to have any cards up it's sleeve to deal with the new carnivore on the block.

[true ginkgo]

Yeah teno definitely needs a shorter growth. 2 hours maybe?

It's worse than carno in every way, so taking just as long to grow seems silly.

[hollow canyon]

Doesn't Tenonto take exactly 2h? From what I recall Utah was 90 minutes, Tenonto 120 and Carno 150 with Dryo taking 40 and Stego 300

[true ginkgo]

I thought teno was 2 hours but i've been told it's 2.5

same as carno

unless the people who tested it miscounted

Maybe this is wrong?

[cedar shore]

seems right to me

[hollow canyon]

I think that's correct aside from Tenonto - to my knowledge it takes 2 hours but then again, I've grown it ages ago. I will try to find out today by asking someone who has far more experience with Tenonto than I do.

In general if it takes 2h 30m it should definitely be dialed down to 2h

[cedar shore]

carnotaurus has the same size as stegos apparently, i was expecting it to rival tenantos 1 on 1 but they easily overpower them

super op

[hollow canyon]

Stego is far more powerful than Carno, it takes one out with two tailswipes

[cedar shore]

i know but it feels waay to big

it is taller than the stego lol

[hollow canyon]

I think it's somewhat oversized

[cedar shore]

yeah

it needs some finer balacing

[hollow canyon]

Until now Tenonto took 2h, it could've changed after this patch though

[cedar shore]

especialy with tenantos n stuff

[true ginkgo]

(talking about size not weight here) utah is undersized, teno is way oversized, and carno is oversized.

[hollow canyon]

I think Carno is generally fine, Tenonto needs some help badly though

[true ginkgo]

whatever happens teno should be lower than carno by a decent margin. it's worse in every way.

[hollow canyon]

Indeed it is, it should take 120m to grow and be able to somewhat comfortably take out a Utah 1v1

[cedar shore]

Carno should have the size equal to the tenanto

they are the size of rexes right now

[true ginkgo]

height/length wise carno is like 10%-20% overscaled currently.

[finite solstice]

Size of rexes? We don't even have rexes in the game yet

[true ginkgo]

tenos are like 30% overscaled currently

[hallow rose]

jesus, that suggestion was painful to read

[cedar shore]

yeah

[hallow rose]

its really not that hard to keep a carno alive if you know what you're doing

[cedar shore]

but i feel like they are far too big

[true ginkgo]

carnos irl are extremely tall. in game they're a bit oversized but not by much.

[finite solstice]

It's kinda hard to judge sizes atm since we don't have an official size chart, but Nova's charts do for now

[cedar shore]

thing is tenanto has same weight as carnos but are waaaay bigger

[true ginkgo]

in game weights are all over the place. irl teno was like 800kg

[obtuse shuttle]

In Game dryo weights as much as real Life teno

Just let It sink

[vestal gust]

Teno is 2.5 hours for sure

It’s the same growth time as Carno is

[golden coral]

So it's been changed then?

[vestal gust]

It’s been 2.5 hours for a while now

Don’t know where this 2 hour grow time people are saying is coming from

It was 2 hours way back at the start

[golden coral]

It was 2 hours before this update

[true ginkgo]

needs properly checking then. it's Schrodinger's teno atm.

[golden coral]

No idea where you get 2.5 from, but last I played tenno, which wasn't that long ago, it was 2 hours from what I've counted

@true ginkgo xD

[vestal gust]

Either way it still needs some help atm

It’s Carno fodder

[true ginkgo]

thing is it can't convincingly fight off or flee a carno. yeah stats and animation speeds can be changed, but you can only do so much before it looks stupid.

so lowering growth time makes most sense imo.

[vestal gust]

I was trying to think of ideas based around it being a swamp Dino but I don’t know if there’s enough swamp around for that to really help

[hollow canyon]

Goddamn thing can't even fight off a Utah reliably

Much less a Carno

At least during the less patch I've been killing Tenontos with a Utah pretty reliably 1v1, not sure how it works now.

[vestal gust]

Was thinking it being a swamp Dino and everything what if it didn’t incur the same movement penalty when running in shallow muddy water like other Dino’s do. Like it’s adapted to running in muddy and shallow watery environments or something idk

[idle tendon]

lower teno growth time and give it more health/bleed resistance?

[vestal gust]

So it’s swim stays the same but it can run unhindered through shallow water and mud.

[hollow canyon]

Is Tenonto's issue the bleed now? I have no idea why it struggles exactly because I barely ever see them on Evrima servers

[vestal gust]

Because they all get munched

[hollow canyon]

I had a similar idea for Sucho

I think it could perhaps work for Tenonto too but I'm not sure if making it this reliant on water is a good idea.

[vestal gust]

The issue is Carno just does everything better tbh. It’s faster, it does more damage, and is just as agile

Can just run up and facetank a teno basically

Well for now at least I don’t even think there’s enough swamp/shallow water for that to work reliably. But I know IRL there are some swamp dwelling antelope that have evolved special shaped hooves and stuff that allow them to basically sprint through mud and shallow water while predators get bogged down. They don’t swim much better than other things but they just run really well on mushy and wet terrain

[obtuse shuttle]

Carno is to Teno what legacy Maia is to dilo
Faster, stronger and turn fast enought to not be juke-able

[vestal gust]

Essentially yes

[royal stream]

"teno is to weak and has a bad machup against utah, please buff him"
Don't worry guys, both utahs and tenos are going to have only bad matchups next patch

[alpine plover]

Teno really sucks atm

The engagements were interesting with Utah v Teno fights

Though I guess with the dev process being under pressure, they must've forgot Tenoto as an oversight to account with Carno

Actually now that I think about it, Stego might've been a bad choice

Since Stego doesn't really "contend" with Carno, because with Carno's drift and turn. They won't even attempt a hunt on a lone Stego.

[royal stream]

stego is to strong for the current metagame imo, it should receive a temporary nerf coupled with a temporary reduced growth timer

[golden coral]

I think it's more that utahs hunt stego, than carno

Carno is small game hunter, it's there to run down the utah/dryo/hypsi pop, meanwhile utah packs hunt stegos

But yeah, stego is a bit iffy, kentro would have been better, since stego is "apex"

[alpine plover]

And Tenoto doesn't really fit in the dynamic either as small game

It's really just chow until we see a buff for it

[royal stream]

yeah, i to think kentro being slightly weaker would have been better for the current state of the game

[golden coral]

Technically tenno is on the small side, both it and carno is oversized in game

But still heavier, should be harder than running down/ramming a utah for sure

[royal stream]

IMO teno should be able to have a slight advantage in a 1vs1 against carno, since carno ins't a brawler but teno is

[golden coral]

Maybe they should nerf stego a bit, lower growth time, and have it play more like a kentro for now sort of xD

[alpine plover]

True, but issue is. Hypsi and Dryo have their small size and greater agility to defend itself against a Carno's speed.
Tenoto is slower, has less power, similar agility, is too big to hide as effectively

Mostly, if a Carno sees a Teno

Its game over, and I really am not a fan of it

[royal stream]

sadly, yeah.

besides, right now the map is infested with carnos packs, the only herb that stand a chance is stego

[golden coral]

Maybe if the tennos stay in the swamp, might help them. Out on open fields is well, carno main hunting grounds so

No idea how well a tailslam works to the head of a carno

[alpine plover]

True, but no Carno is messing with a Stego
It could be balanced if Tenoto could get an ability to defend itself against a Carno

But then it might break the interesting matchup of Utah v Teno

Hate to say it guys, but. I think Carno needs a nerf.

[golden coral]

Possibly, but two utahs pouncing will kill a tenno, no sure if it can actually buck them off, think they made it harder

[alpine plover]

Tenos can buck them off

It takes a lot of stam, but they can be bucked off pretty quick

[golden coral]

Yeah but I think it takes more bucking now, or maybe I did something wrong ,but I couldn't get the both of them off me before they killed me, one did drop and then I died

[alpine plover]

Did you RMB?

[golden coral]

But not sure if bucking is working as intended right now, there seems to be some issues all around

Yes, did, 2-3 rounds of bucking, still had them on me :p

[alpine plover]

Hm

Its definitely a bucking issue with the game atm

[golden coral]

But it could be the bleed effect, since I guess they were stacking heavy bleed, so I might have run out of stamina

Or well, had lowered stamina, so might have needed another round of bucking I couldn't get, but even so I was badly wounded, so not sure

[alpine plover]

Though still, Tenoto has become the new "Cerato" against the Carno

[golden coral]

Yeh

[alpine plover]

Carnotaurus wasn't a quick turner irl, mainly because it was adapted for hunting larger prey (though this topic is still is debated)

[finite solstice]

"Whilst it lacks maneuverability of the nimble Utahraptor" - this is a quote from the trello regarding carno. Why did they make it so maneuverable then if they literally stated themselves that that's something that it lacks

[alpine plover]

Yeah it's contradictory.

[finite solstice]

A brake feature and a 2 second acceleration is the complete opposite of lacking maneuverability.

[nocturne fiber]

Yeah, it’s hella weird, and fucks over us hypsi mains

[obtuse shuttle]

@graceful sigil stegos are slow as fuck, your fault

[topaz elm]

stego needs to be powerful , if not , carnotaurus would completely wreck it ,

adult stegos need to be powerful to raise young stegos into adults to where they can fight for themselves

if stego were weak and couldnt fight carno effectively , the stegosaurus population would be on a rollercoaster downwards

who would play as something that cant fight or run from an attacker

[obtuse shuttle]

Stego is slower
Grows slower
Is bigger
Its only fair it wrecks carnos

Running animals run

Slow animals fight

[topaz elm]

yeah , it takes way longer and thus should be rewarded for that growth time with lots of strength

carnotaurus have a better time running into herds and charging at a baby stego than attacking an adult

[obtuse shuttle]

You can't expect something fast to fight something slow, because then said slow thing has nothing going for it

[topaz elm]

yeah and if you get obliterated by a stego as a carno , thats kinda your fault , you were given incredible speed and didn't run

[obtuse shuttle]

I get that in the moment you can be mad

I would get mad too

[graceful sigil]

@obtuse shuttle i didnt know there were stegos around me

[obtuse shuttle]

But use logic

Your fault

[graceful sigil]

how?

[topaz elm]

they are large and loud

[obtuse shuttle]

You should be aware of your surroundings

[topaz elm]

listen for footsteps like the rest of us paranoid isle players

[graceful sigil]

lel mhm

[obtuse shuttle]

You have the benefit of traveling faster and deciding if you want to fight or run, you will have to deal with a weaker dino

[topaz elm]

literally , carnotaurus has so many options for prey

[obtuse shuttle]

Stego is forced to fight whether it wants or not

Unlike carno

[topaz elm]

carnotaurus can just "no."

while stegosaurus has to fight

[obtuse shuttle]

Is not even about grow time, slower = stronger in general

[topaz elm]

yeah just look at pue or brachi or cama or ANY LARGE CREATURE

besides , with stego's tail attack , where ever it looks the tail swings so a single stego is a dangerous thing

[stray cypress]

The reason dinos are stronger when they are slower is because they always have to fight they dont have the option to just run away whenever

If your forced to fight all the time you better be strong

[obtuse shuttle]

You summed It up perfectly

[golden coral]

@wheat hinge They do have threats, utah packs, and carno packs can take stegos, especially utahs, which makes sense. Carno is not meant to tackle big prey, the utah pounce is way better at it, so when the carno hype dies down, we'll probably see a better ecosystem

[cyan radish]

Stego has a long growth time leaving it vulnerable to adult Utah’s and carnos. Stegos are so popular right now because surviving as the other herbivores is more difficult.

[obtuse shuttle]

Also, Stego has been very anticipated, its a new and very liked Dino you just have to wait until the hype dies

[golden coral]

Tenno only takes 2 hours to grow, not 2.5. That said, maybe tenno do need something against carnos.

[cyan radish]

I enjoy playing herbie and my breakdown of these playables would be

Stego: viable as it can fight all but the largest Utah packs

Dryo: can survive against Utah but dodge is not enough to escape carno hit box

Hypsi: can survive in trees but spit is difficult to aim/use at the moment. Also less appeal with no growth.

Tenonto: can now effectively combat 1-2 Utahs. Carno beats tenonto 70% of the time and tenonto can’t run away. Most of the time there is more than 1 carno. Tenonto becomes unviable.

[cedar shore]

@wheat hinge Utahs can take down carnos

[obtuse shuttle]

You dont get bodied by most things if you just run away

Specially as fucking carno

The fastest shit in game

[dawn sand]

I feel like the only person who has gone 50/50 against Carnos as a Tenonto

[cyan radish]

What’s your strategy for fighting carno? I’m trying to figure it out

[sonic zodiac]

So legendary, you will always escape everything that isnt your species?

Havent you heard of Ambushing?

[dawn sand]

I did a lot of practice fights with one of my admins and we usually test how fights go or how to improve and what we noticed is that if a Carno at any point charges at you, you should land the tail slam, which does more damage to them then they do to you (it actually seems like you're mitigating the damage you take as well. Whether thats cause they're hitting your ass vs you hitting their head or cause the tail is doing substantial stun i dont honestly know).
And if they bite a Teno can trade using its Claws, Kick and tail slam for positive damage trades. You're gonna walk away from the fight hurt but I don't think its anywhere near as impossible as people are saying it is @cyan radish

Not to sure about the claw damage trade but you definitely leave a hurting on Carnos

[cyan radish]

Ok thanks for the insight in that. I’ll try some practice with the tail slam! @dawn sand

[dawn sand]

Ofc!

[obtuse shuttle]

Yeah i have heard of ambushing, and not, i will not scape everything

This is a survival game

If you get ambushed by something slower is either your fault, the ambusher deserves it or both

[cyan radish]

Stego ambush confirmed

[cedar shore]

I hope that strategy works @dawn sand as i got completely destroyed by 2 carnos :I

I just really really want to have some good fights against carnos

[dawn sand]

well two Carnos i dont think a solo Teno can stack against :/
I think a lot of Teno players use the bite attack when that is literally its weakest atttack. You really gotta focus on defense in that fight but if a Carno just runs out you with no brain, punish them with the tail because they HAVE to respect it

[fervent cedar]

also gonna add onto the feedback when I can, i think it is the tree hitboxes that could also be worked on

I'm safe, for now I guess?

[desert wave]

I tried all that in testing and the carnos always won ending in the yellow to orange health are. I never used the bite and only the tail slam and claw attack but if carnos don‘t charge you but just drift bite it‘s incredibly difficult to deal with one

The most balanced fight I tested with carno vs tenonto was when carno was 85% grown and teno 100% the fight really depends on if the Tenonto lands the tail slam and knocks it down or the carno evades and baited successfully all the time

Unfortunately teno doesn’t knock fully grown carnos down

[toxic crypt]

Would be a better matchup if carno wasn't so maneuverable.

[lean shoal]

carno def needs a trun radius nerf and its hunger drain needs to be more in line with utahs or tenontos.

[toxic crypt]

it could also use more acceleration. Carno right now can stop running and turn before quickly running again

[lean shoal]

carno feels half its size right now with its animations but it feels like its 3 tons compared to tenonto and utah.

[real peak]

Yeah I agree I’m fine with carnos power level right now I just wish it wasn’t so agile

[lean shoal]

jungles in general need to have more colliders aside from trees alone.

[raw cypress]

I loved the speeds in legacy, they're so- Perfect.
w h a t

[lean shoal]

@alpine plover click the box in settings and assign it to the desired key. if that dosent work click reset then save those keybinds as they will fix it. sometimes they get scrambled after an update.

[vestal gust]

Carnos don’t really have to use the charge on tenos. It honestly more effective for them to just run up and start biting. The way I’ve seen them do it which essentially guarantees the win for the Carno is they use their better to speed to put themselves in front of the teno and then just walk straight into your head. Forces you into a facetank with claws vs bites and the teno loses out. Works like 90% of time, just run ahead of the teno and chuck yourself in their face, there’s basically nothing they can do about it

[tidal jacinth]

The juvies definitely aren't too fast, though they do look like they slide around a little from a distance. I'd prefer that over legacy speeds though. I'd rather not go back to the juvi dinosaurs being useless snacks

[obtuse shuttle]

Same

[grave veldt]

Am I the only one who thinks carno is way too big

I thought stego was small but it’s more the fact that carno was upsized a lot

If u look at legacy carno to this carno it’s much bigger

[lean shoal]

yeah in game carno is about as big as legacy alberto

its massive

[runic stratus]

Yeah carno seems a lot bigger rn, also carno's biting faster than a utah, what do you think about it? I think utah should definitely bite faster than currently

[lean shoal]

carno in general is just stupidly strong right now. it makes it near impossible to grow anything thats not either in a herd with adult stegos or another carno.

[wary otter]

after all the hype is gone itll be better im sure, rn people have to kos eachother

[runic stratus]

Hope it will be better in fix patch :/ my uwutahs are suffering, I can't fight back them at all

[alpine plover]

God the speed is a bit ridiculous, I dont know what prompted the devs to make them so fast

[grave veldt]

carno is way too big imo

like utah looks like a toy to carno

allo and carno were pretty much the same height

and now carno is godzilla lol

[orchid dew]

I have a legit question, how tf am i supposed to grow a utah when carnos can catch and kill us even as adult? like there is no running away from them lmao. is there a trick im missing or something bc its legit impossible to grow a utah rn

[grave veldt]

yea rn carno shits on utah

just wait for a hotpatch to come out that reduces carno turning speed

[cyan radish]

As Utah you can turn at right angles way faster than carno, just zoom for dense forests and peel away

[inland lagoon]

Utah can jump to rocks.

[late wadi]

@desert wave I was just about to suggest this

Carno acceleration is WAY too fast

[desert wave]

Yea it really is an issue

[late wadi]

I’ve murdered so many small creatures as carno, it has to be nerfed

They’ll dodge and I’ll be on their ass instantly

[desert wave]

You should still suggest it if a lot of people complain about it they‘ll probably fix it

[late wadi]

Alright

I really hope they nerf that in the hot fix

[desert wave]

Me too I like that carno can drift but without proper acceleration it is way to OP

[vestal gust]

Carno just needs it's turning ability and it's stopping ability nerfed. Make it's turning circle wider and make it harder for it to stop. All that mass and speed shouldn't stop that quickly. An acceleration nerf would be justified as well, thing goes from 0-100 in like 0.5 seconds

[late wadi]

Yeah

[vestal gust]

So Utah, Teno and Dryo actually have a chance and are not just chew toys

it's horrific trying to play any of those 3 atm

they get wiped out

[late wadi]

Yeah, finally managed to grow Utah to subadult by hiding and scavenging off carnos that have left their corpses.

Not playing it again until carno gets nerfed

Not in the mood to lose my subadult to em while it’s still over powered

[vestal gust]

I play a lot of teno, and trying to play it since carno has been nearly impossible

[late wadi]

Yeah, my friend was playing tenonto earlier

Got slaughtered

[vestal gust]

There's just nothing Utah, Dryo or Teno can do better. Carno trumps them in speed and power and has the same mobility. That's main issue, something that fast shouldn't have manoeuvrability it does. Makes it faster, stronger and unavoidable

[finite solstice]

"Hmmm, yes. The carno is a fast animal, but has horrible turning and has bad maneuverability. How about we give it insane acceleration and a brake mechanic? Yeah, great idea!"

No self contradiction there, totally not.

[vestal gust]

Yeah, it's like a jet powered helicopter atm

[magic ermine]

They have better maneuverability than Utah what

[twilit kraken]

Hmm...maybe but only if said plant was pretty plentiful and ONLY edible by hypsis...otherwise you're just limiting the spit ability and is better to just have the ability do a slower recharge

@deep finch

[deep finch]

Yeah it should be way more common and the spit should be made more like a cone to actually make it easiter to hit a charging dino

[twilit kraken]

If you don't mind gonna copy your idea over to steam forums where I also posted the idea...or if would rather comment yourself here's the link
https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/2969524751700327822/

[topaz elm]

doesnt carno get 2 shot by stego , not 1 shot

you need a pair of carnos to hunt a stego successfully AND THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE

stegosaurus is weak when its young

thats carno's time to strike

charge into a herd , grab a baby and get out

[desert wave]

It seems like somebody doesn’t understand what dinosaurs fill what niche again

[desert wave]

Exactly

[topaz elm]

carnotaurus is a speed demon , avoiding hunting tanks and going for oppurtunities

grabbing a baby or smaller animal like a dryo or hyspi instead of A FULL GROWN STEGOSAURUS

[rigid swan]

Allosaurus is not much bigger than Carnotaurus, but for some reason everyone sees it as a hunter of Stegosaurus

[royal stream]

the problem is that people were expecting carno and stego to be a fair 1vs1 matchup when in reality stego is really far from carnos league, that creates an inbalance in the current ecosystem making carnos really dangerous for anything else and stegos being usually left alone

dude, allo is like double the weight of an carno

[grave veldt]

allosaurus was heavier and made way different then carno

they have the same height but allo is much heavier

[topaz elm]

allosaurus was actually made to hunt stegosaurus because it doesnt have the insane speed carno used to catch it's prey

[grave veldt]

allo could tackle with a stego as it can hunt in packs to try and bite the head

[topaz elm]

carnotaurus only needs to catch things that are fast and prefer to run away instead of fight

[grave veldt]

carno rn just has op manuverability as it shouldnt have

carno is supposed to be hit n run which isnt a good tactic for taking a stego down

[true ginkgo]

Yep people are thinking stego and carno are meant to be fair 1v1 equivalents.

[grave veldt]

yea like their totally different weight classes lol

[desert wave]

I really don’t know why people even think that

[rigid swan]

The proportionate Allosaurus weighs half a ton more than Carnotaurus, both predators reached 8 meters in length

[true ginkgo]

when carno is a is smaller mid sized animal while stego is closing on apex level territory.

[grave veldt]

yes but carno is made for hit and run

[royal stream]

stegos are supposed to be right now at least, to be the raid boss big packs of utahs and carnos would try to take in a pinch.

[grave veldt]

allo grappled

[desert wave]

Allos niche fits hunting stegos while carnos doesn’t

[grave veldt]

hit and run isnt good for stego

stego can just turn and smack u

[desert wave]

If they were equally strong what even would be the point on having allo

[topaz elm]

carnotaurus is more made for young and fast animals , like run in and grab a baby

allosaurus can actually fight

[desert wave]

If carno is faster then allo

[true ginkgo]

even allo won't be fighting full adult stego 1v1 unless it's really good.

[grave veldt]

i dont even think a 1v1 is possible unless the stego player isnt good or is ambushed

[desert wave]

Yes and people for some reason don‘t understand that

[grave veldt]

1v2 or 1v3 is pretty fair as it will pose a threat to the stego

[desert wave]

You don‘t see cheetahs hunting rhinos so why would carno hunt a stego

[topaz elm]

allosaurus would have to find a lone stego and grab the head to be a threat

[grave veldt]

yes

[true ginkgo]

it's like wanting carno to fight acro.

[grave veldt]

actually tbf that'll prolly go for any dino ever lol

avoid stego tail and go for head

[rigid swan]

In any case, a carnotaurus should not die from a single blow of a stegosaurus.

[grave veldt]

it doesnt

[desert wave]

It doesn’t

[true ginkgo]

it doesn't. two blows.

[grave veldt]

it s a 2 shot

[golden coral]

It does oneshot on a headshot

[grave veldt]

its only 1 shot if it gets it in the head

[golden coral]

But well, it's a headshot..

[grave veldt]

which is perfectly fine

[rigid swan]

2 shot in tail

[grave veldt]

thats lag

[golden coral]

Be that as it may, you're not getting another shot

[grave veldt]

game is laggy rn

[desert wave]

I‘m glad Utah packs are more dangerous to stegos than carnos

[golden coral]

That carno is out of there the moment it's hit, and I don't know, it's probably still much less damage, but might still be high enough for just about a twoshot

[grave veldt]

stego is perfectly fine rn it will be better when deino comes out

[rigid swan]

okey, my bad, i don`t know about headshot, i thought head and body get equal amount of damage

[grave veldt]

yea their all different

tip of tail does very little dmg

head does extreme dmg

body is base dmg

[rigid swan]

i know about tail and body, ty for information

[grave veldt]

np

[rigid swan]

so now i am completely satisfied with the game, gl guys

[topaz elm]

kk

[alpine plover]

for the suggestion for carno vs tento balance its def possible for the tento to win if you play it out right

which is outmaneuvering etc

[drowsy shell]

Using the trees, bro

Almost like carno excels in open spaces.

[alpine plover]

and then

[drowsy shell]

almost

[alpine plover]

that*

trees op

[final relic]

@inland lagoon Please discuss others’ feedback in this channel instead of the general balance feedback channel.

[alpine plover]

using the water is also good in fights

[drowsy shell]

Yeah. Carno swim speed is hot garbage

[alpine plover]

yup

unrelated but hypsi swim is so fast xD

your like a RC boat

[dusk dove]

Hypsi go brrrrrrr

Speedy boi

[alpine plover]

indeed

[grave veldt]

idk y but carno size just makes me uncomfortable lol

[alpine plover]

in what way?

[grave veldt]

it just feels big but this is already known so

[alpine plover]

they are pretty big yeah

[grave veldt]

like ik carno is big but like not this big

[alpine plover]

do you mean height or mass

cuz irl carno was a little over 13ft tall

compared to humans thats a tall fuckin creature

[obtuse shuttle]

hell no, thats rex height

[grave veldt]

13 ft tall?

[alpine plover]

rex was 13-20ft

[topaz elm]

although i dont think hyspi needs a buff , i think it needs more escape options , like more speed , more arboreal abilities or ya know like a burrow

[obtuse shuttle]

rex was 13 feet, not more

[topaz elm]

ah yes the "accurate" depiction of tyrannosaurus

[spring hollow]

hypsi should at least be able to defend itself against fresh hatchling utahs lol

[grave veldt]

nother image as well

[alpine plover]

yeah thats what i was looking at

sorry if it pinged you lol

[spring hollow]

thats like an adult dryo instantly killing an adult utah

it makes no sense

[grave veldt]

nah its cool new reply feature is lit

[obtuse shuttle]

you were looking at a totally unnacurate and cartoonish image of rex

[alpine plover]

whats your source then

not arguing just curious

[obtuse shuttle]

u dont have it here, but its not google images

[grave veldt]

well either way it should be around 13 feet

tall

[obtuse shuttle]

you can ask in paleotalk if you are curious

[grave veldt]

im not that curious i just know that carno is oversized

[spring hollow]

yeah

the carno is wayyy to bug

bug

bug

omg

[grave veldt]

bug

[spring hollow]

big

[grave veldt]

lmao

[obtuse shuttle]

this carno is as big as allo

its so wrong

[grave veldt]

ikr

it makes me uncomfortable tbh

it makes utah look like a toy

[spring hollow]

a carno almost as big as a stego is dumb asf

[grave veldt]

like stego was longer and heavier then a carno obviously

[obtuse shuttle]

specially since, in their own words, carno isnt supposed to hunt stego

the size and the stats give contradictory information

[grave veldt]

actually i already checked with someone from the dev team and they already stated that they know carno is oversized

[spring hollow]

like leave the size for a medium tier to the allo something that’s supposed to be powerful

and able to hunt

[obtuse shuttle]

carno has the stats of an accurate size carbo but is as big as an allo

you either upsize carno to make it strobger, or leave carbo as the real thing, but dont give carno real life stats and at the same time allo size

[grave veldt]

carno stats r fine except for its acceleration from 0-100 in seconds

[obtuse shuttle]

accel is totally op

[grave veldt]

yea

and it can turn on a dime

its like a better utah rn

makes no sense

[spring hollow]

bruh wtf

isnt utah supposed to be agile but carno just ruined it

[grave veldt]

ikr

[spring hollow]

carno was not an agile animal at all

it was only fast

it likely tripped while hunting because it couldnt turn quick enough

[grave veldt]

somehow legacy carno is more balanced then evirma carno which is strange

[obtuse shuttle]

carno's trello card says its supposed to lack agility

[spring hollow]

legacy carno is the best carno

[obtuse shuttle]

they fucking contradict themselves constantly

[grave veldt]

exactly n then it turned to this

lmao

[cyan radish]

Tenonto’s only real defense is its tail slam which is a much higher risk to use than carno’s bite as it immobilizes tenonto and consumes considerable stamina. I suggest lowering it’s stamina cost and increasing its damage output as well as adding a stun mechanic.

This all adds up to carno being punished for fighting a teno without a strategy.

[alpine plover]

Carcasses should provide more food, yes

The amount if food a single carnivore eats in a sitting isn't usually big.

Lions only eat 11-16 pounds of meat per day, for example.

[obtuse shuttle]

lions also dont eat daily

[alpine plover]

Yeah

I own a dog, and she only needs to be fed once a day

[obtuse shuttle]

carnivore animals can go long times without eating

isle think they are humminbirds

[grave veldt]

i mean its just the natural order of things. If carnis are constantly able to eat then the herbis would be scarce and a lot of carnis will starve. If a lion needs to constantly eat all day everyday then it'll probably die. Its just how the ecosystem works

[alpine plover]

Yes.

[vestal gust]

For sure there must be some Carno mobility nerfs coming. It’s just stomping out all competition at the moment

Apart from Stegos herbis are basically extinct. Utah doesn’t have it much better either

[novel tulip]

You should Tokyo drift to a stop, and take a few seconds to reach max speed

Also have poor turning radius when you're at max as well

[vagrant inlet]

@polar urchin Carno should just have its agility and ability to stop and turn on a dime nerfed. Nobody would play an animal that could potentially break it’s leg every time it turns left/right

[polar urchin]

Oh no, you wouldn't break your leg every time- it's a risk, if you try to stop on a dime you risk injury

If you slow down before making turns you don't have that risk

[obtuse shuttle]

Smash bros brawl flashbacks

[polar urchin]

I also figured keeping the ability to stop but with a risk was also better than the chance if you risk running off a higher ledge

Say you're chasing a utah and you come upon a clif face and slowing down gradually won't be good enough, you can make the choice to risk possible injury or roll off a ledge

I'm still suggesting it's turn IS nerfed, but if someone wants to risk making a tight turn at max speed and possibly break their leg, that's their choice as well

[polar urchin]

I'm still saying nerf the turn speed/radius at max speed, and it shouldn't be making top speeds in less than a second, but having the option to risk injury due to either mistakes/carelessness OR risk injury to avoid an even greater injury, gives players more wiggle room

I'd like to actually see that for all dinos in a sense, such as allo, sub rex, for Ex- of course for utah, austro and things like that they wouldn't be rolling across the ground and have a lesser chance to break a leg, but perhaps slight disorientation for them

[cyan radish]

Please remove invincibility frames for utah getting up. Utah should be punished for losing all stamina

[toxic crypt]

Remove utah's getting up invincibility frames and give them to dryo's dodge

[vestal gust]

Yes please

[toxic crypt]

Carno invalidates over half of the roster because it is missing a core aspect of its design. Carno is extremely fast and strong compared to smalls, it needs to be less maneuverable in order to not just be unescapable. Teno, utah, dryo, and hypsi don't need buffs that throw them all out of whack when carno is the only problem.

[tidal jacinth]

Carno stopping should make it skid a good few meters if it's going full speed along with acceleration

[vestal gust]

I agree, Carno stats aren't what is broken about it. It's damage, speed and health are fine. What's not fine is how quickly it can stop, turn and gain back all it's speed

[tidal jacinth]

Utahs definitely don't need buffs, even a small pack of utahs can decimate a group of adult carnos

[vestal gust]

Only if they land pounces

Teno is more screwed if they come up against our new speedy boi

[tidal jacinth]

Yeah but it's not really hard if the thing you're pouncing on is four times the size of you

[alpine plover]

Carno shouldn't even be stationery when fighting anyways. Isn't it suppose to have a "hit and run" fighting style? The turning with the speed is way to over-tuned

[tidal jacinth]

And you don't bounce off of it even if you pounce it head-on like you do if you hit tenonto's tail

[vestal gust]

Carno's power/strength is fine. Just needs it's agility tuned down

[alpine plover]

At least to a point where a Teno can juke it. If it gets over turned by raptors, then it should just run to create distance to charge back again. Like Legacy's Carno.

[vestal gust]

Tbh I feel like tenos tail slam should have more of an effect on carno. Carno doesn't really care about being hit by it. Feel like it should at least stumble them

Doesn't need to do anymore damage, just have some sort of stunning effect

[warm mesa]

People askin to nerf stego since it kills a 100% carno easily, despite the fact allo and above are whats gonna probablly have a 50/50 against stego

[inland lagoon]

Does utah pounce work on carno? How much damage does it deal?

[hollow canyon]

A lot and yes it does work on Carno, Carno also has no way to get rid off the Utah that pounced it so if you're a lone Carno and you end up facing a pack of Utahs you're going to die unless you manage to get away. In general the only animal that can handle Utah and its pounce rn is the Tenonto due to its bucking. Utahs pounce is also much easier to land than Carno's charge attack.

[sweet agate]

l was a teenager teno. had a teen carno on my ass. two tail stuns and it just kept going at me. l clawed its face at thhe same time it bit me. l died. it had only bit my tail once before that. Bit unfair how l cant escape a carno no matter what route l take

l played teno 4 times, got to adult 2x, its a nightmare dealing with how long it takes to eat

my finger hurts holding E.

[late wadi]

@rigid swan carnotaurus demolishes stegosaurus under 50% if coordinated

When I was carno, throughout that single carno life, I had killed at least 20 baby stegos

Baby stegos are basically free food for carno

And that’s the balance, in order to become the very powerful and tanky machine, you have to survive your extremely vulnerable young state

[topaz elm]

you guys , 2 utahs pouncing can almost kill a stego

what do you think it can do to carno?

literally 2 utahs pounced on a stego get it down to about 3rd or even 4th screen , if a utah gets a good pounce of carno , it would easily kill it

as said in carnos description ... well its old description

[lilac quartz]

I thought you were able to remove utahs pouncing you if you hold right click

while standing still that is

[topaz elm]

you can , but in a pack of 4 utahs , 2 pounce on , when they get off the other 2 get on , slowly killing you , or speedily i should say as its pretty fast

[grave veldt]

I feel like pounce should be toned down a bit

Or just give stego hp

Since yk 2 Utah’s killing a stego is broken

[topaz elm]

yeah it should be 4 i feel

skip to 2:02:30 here

wrong link LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQFxKMAAhe4&t=7350s correct link

skip to 2:02:30 here

it shows just how powerful utah is against carno

[grave veldt]

Well carno is always more stronger the issue is Utah’s pounce. It’s Also infuriating bucking off a Utah but they get i frames for like 4 seconds that’s a long time

[topaz elm]

imagine , if you could mud bathe while utahs are on your back to deal a hell of a lot of damage to them and getting them off your back

[grave veldt]

That’s a cool idea

I still think removing the iframes would help a lot

Kinda weird u have to wait for the Utah to get up and it’s invincible the whole time during the animation

Kinda broken

But one of the QA members already said the devs know about this so I’m guessing in the next hot fix it’ll get fixed

Hopefully

[lilac quartz]

ide rather have it so if the utahs collide into another animal or an object the utah would get knocked off

Plus the only real wallow i see would be able to harm utahs properly is stegos as the thing even when squatted down has enough room for the utahs to stay attached

[topaz elm]

like imagine running in a forest with utahs on both side , you scrape your sides against a tree and the utah gets knocked off

[grave veldt]

I still don’t get how utah has iframes like why does that even exist

[finite solstice]

It didn't used to have them iirc