balance-feedback-discussion

[viscid mica]

I’m down with charges for use XD

[harsh lark]

Carno still needs to hold charge for 6 seconds to get max value, short headbutts have less knockdown potential. Point blank headbutts knock down Omni because it’s still a 1300 kg animal that should knockdown a smaller animal without needing to build up speed.

And again it still needs to land 2 headbutts after, which is way more forgiving than every other cc attack in the game.

[vale brook]

i think a slight cooldown on the standing HB would be ok simply to avoid the murder machine gun that is a standing carnotaurus

[viscid mica]

Did you know you can hold rmb while walking or standing and regardless of if your clicking or not it’s value increases

[vale brook]

ive been able to knock down 1600kg ceratos as a 1800kg carno while just standing still

RIP those 2 ceratos, actually

[viscid mica]

You can knock down up to your own weight and stagger anything up to 2.1 tons

At 1800 to be clear

[vale brook]

we really have come full circle back to carno just dominating cerato

well

maybe with the exception of a full prime elder cerato

[viscid mica]

Yes and no because due to changes to cera by holding charge you become immune

[harsh lark]

Oh lol well that’s just a bug that should be fixed. But my point on everything else still stands.

[vale brook]

i dont see how needing 2 follow up headbutts is an issue when carno has 0 issue pulling off that follow up

[viscid mica]

So carno still loses too competent ceratos

[viscid mica]

I’m not disagreeing that you should be able to knock down omnis specifically easily it’s just that charge is far too powerful and easy to spam at the moment similar to why allo is so overpowered speed of attack determines the fight

[viscid mica]

Carno needing two follow up head butts is completely fair The problem is how easy they are to do at the moment.

[harsh lark]

It’s the comparison to other similar carnivores. Carno needs 2 follow-up hits during which its target can escape by juking, jumping on a rock, crossing water etc etc. meanwhile a Juvi Rex can kill confirm in that exact ambush scenario with crush. Carno is not competitive in its own niche which makes no sense given its intended specialist design.

[viscid mica]

I’d honestly argue I would be less scared of the Juvie Rex then of a adult carno any day

Juvi Rex is far easier to juke and or outright kill than a adult Carno ever will be

Smaller turns way slower can’t drift and guaranteed kill attack animation locks it for two seconds

All it takes is one miss for that Juvie Rex to be in a dangerous place, whereas a carno of the same size is in far less Dire Straits

[harsh lark]

Sure but I’m not talking about direct PvP. I mean hunting and ambushing. A Juvi Rex or Omni kill confirms way easier than a carno thanks to pinning.

[viscid mica]

Not atm no not with how easy it is to use and spam rmb maybe before, but not at the moment

If it’s something a Juvie Rex can pin or an Omni can pin than a car no can of absolutely obliterate it in seconds

[harsh lark]

Except Omni and galli, which can be pinned by those things, can survive the headbutts of a carno and get away Scott free.

[viscid mica]

Refer to this video

[viscid mica]

No, no a galli cannot lol?

Charging carno is faster than Galli…

[harsh lark]

You do not need to be faster to escape carno, we just discussed the plethora of methods you can use to get away after being knocked down

[viscid mica]

So my question here is how exactly are you surviving? Getting knocked down?

Cause like in my experience, all you gotta do is walk up to them and start clicking. You can get at least three charge hits which can easily kill anything under 700 kg.

I feel like that’s where the confusion is cause I’m not of the belief that anything Omni is capable of pinning or a peak speed Juvie Rex is surviving the first knockdown of a carno

There’s simply nothing in the game with the health to survive a competent carno knocking it down if it’s within that size range

[harsh lark]

Jump on rock, jump across water, any forested area, you realize the entire map isn’t one wide open 2d plain, right?

[viscid mica]

LITERALLY ALL OF THOSE APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE 1 of them

[viscid mica]

Like I don’t think your using objectively fair assertions here

Are we assuming the carno JUST HITS YOU ONCE and than lets you get up? Than sure ya you can survive than same with omni or juvi Rex if they don’t fully commit but no competent carno is doing that they are Turning around and standing on top of you spamming rmb which is a MINIMUM of 2 free hits for any half decent carno

[harsh lark]

The difference is that a Juvi Rex crushing you doesn’t give you the chance to use any of those

[viscid mica]

Neither does getting knocked down…

Cuz the only time you don’t get knocked down is if you are almost the same weight as the carno

Like your argument is based on the unfair perimeter that you simply don’t follow up the first charge immediately

Which objectively is like a omni or juvi Rex canceling their pins

[harsh lark]

Except you can, the problem is that carno needs to turn around to hit whatever it just charged. End result is only getting 1 maybe 2 free hits out of a hard to land long charge

[viscid mica]

No competent carno is struggling to not get 2 hits off that knock down if not 3

[viscid mica]

Again refer to this video for how easy it is for carnos to follow up that knock down

I mean this in no offence but how many full grows on base game mode not a free grow admin server, do you have on carno?

[deft tinsel]

most carno players dont actually charge through species...ive actually seen players charge stand still for a millisecond to see if they got the knock down and then make one of 2 choices depending on the outcome. 1: if its knocked down must spam rmb. 2: not knocked down? okay im the fastest creature in game lets sprint. most carnos never actually charge through whatever theyre trying to kill so this is a stupid take

also even if in the case lets say said carno did charge right through and got the knock down. knock downs on dinosaurs last 2-3 seconds....and carnos can drift like crazy. how are you messing up so much time to just "turn around"????

and lets say if u did miss an opportunity to get more damage you literally have about .5 seconds where the species is locked in a standing animation before it can move...and u just hit it with another rmb.

giving you yet another knock down

carno is in no need of a buff and does excellent in its niche. id argue it does too well with its new rmb design. most carnos dont even bite anymore bc its pointless. why bite when i can just spam u with knockdowns/stuns and ur stuck until ur dead.

[viscid mica]

[harsh lark]

The game has momentum, you can’t stop immediately like its legacy isle. Carno can’t kill confirm most smalls even if it gets a long charge. Having to run in circles chasing its prey even after a perfect ambush makes it by design worse at hunting smalls than carnivores with pins or pounces

[deft tinsel]

yes but...the isle also has physics andddd if ur running through a dino and knock it down...uuuuu get stuck on the dino and that gives u ur opportunity to see if u got a knock down or not

[harsh lark]

My original point is simply asking why carno shouldn’t be rewarded more for landing its most difficult to land move when other carnivores can outright kill in the same scenario.

[deft tinsel]

also carno isnt really meant to be hunting smaller species of dino its meant to be going after omniraptors, pachies, etc.

[harsh lark]

Those Dino’s are the smalls I’m talking about

[deft tinsel]

because it already is with its knockdown mechanic. and because of there being no cooldown u can literally walk and still hold ur rmb and spam charges without even having to click ur shift key

its rewarded plenty and is super easy to play. how many times have you grown and played carno if i may ask? and have u taken the time to actually learn the dino or did u lose a hunt by some miraculous way and are now wanting carno to be rewarded even more

[harsh lark]

It’s decent but still worse compared to other Dino’s. It should be better when it’s intended design Is literally “small game hunter”. Also holding rmb for full charge value is a bug that shouldn’t count for balancing

[deft tinsel]

carno has been doing well since its release. it did have a small portion of time where it was bad but back then when carno was released lol people literally took down stegos with carnos. i can take down allos with carnos. it doesnt need anymore rewarding than it already has.

and if u go back and check ur feedback plenty of people agree the same thing. carno is perfect rn it just needs its rmb changed and then were all good to go

[deft tinsel]

also to add onto this carnos absolutely smoke most ceratos. its more than a small game hunter meaning it is actually currently overpowered its doing more than its intended design

[harsh lark]

Why do past patches have relevance to current balance, they do not exist anymore.

Carno is rewarding but it isn’t competitive compared to other carnivores. If you want to hunt smalls it’s better to be Omni or Juvi Rex. A long charge is 6+ seconds of charging and turning slow, just make it more rewarding to land.

[deft tinsel]

omni isnt meant to be a small game hunter neither is rex so thats irrelevant. carno currently competes for the top spot of being a menace. its a menace to literally everything including HERBIVORES I MIGHT ADD. i have friends that smoke maias on carnos. it doesnt need anything else

it absolutely competes with cerato for being one of the best smaller mid tiers there is.

[deft tinsel]

im referencing past patches bc carno hasnt been changed that much since its release. maybe its stam or its bleed but most of it hasnt been changed much thats why

[viscid mica]

I’d argue carno is the best small tier hunter and is atleast competitive with mid tiers when fighting

[deft tinsel]

and back then id like to add u couldnt choose when to throw out ur charge. u had to commit to it so if anything carno is now even more catered to people who arent skilled

[viscid mica]

They made the skill gap more vast but the min skill req dropped with that

[deft tinsel]

yerpp

[harsh lark]

That’s the point though. Neither Omni nor Rex are specialized small game hunters. So why do they outperform carno at small game hunting, if you land a pounce or crush on a galli that’s it, it’s dead. Meanwhile a carno landing a 6 second charge still has to play wild goose chase and hope it doesn’t jump on a rock or across water.

[deft tinsel]

at that point if ur losing a galli after youve knocked it down thats a skill issue bro-

that aint a species issue thats a you issue

also no omni is physically catching a galli gallis are just too fast. nor is a rex catching a galli.

unless its ai or they managed somehow someway to catch it off guard its impossible

remember a species is only as good as the person playing it. maybe reevaluate how u play the dino

[viscid mica]

They don’t outperform carno thou 😭

If the carno is getting out preformed by juvi Rex and omni as a carno its honestly a skill issue

[harsh lark]

They statistically do.

A Juvi Rex in speed phase runs as fast as carno (if not faster), has more stamina, and most importantly pins with crush, so it can actually kill confirm on an ambush. Omni is slower than carno but it’s still better at kill confirming since pounce can pin. Plus getting an ambush as either of those two is easier since they’re smaller and more quiet than carno.

Carno gives up an arm and an arm to be the games “small prey specialist”. It shouldn’t be outperformed at this by generalist carnivores.

[deft tinsel]

what statistics u looking at? you yourself and yours?

also juvie rex isnt quieter nor does it have ambush speed at that stage of life

[viscid mica]

They absolutely do not

Juvi Rex gets close but doesn’t have 1/3rd the agility carno does as it can’t drift and charge speed gaps peak speed Rex any day

And again omni and juvi Rex are not better at confirming, small stuff knockdown gives you all the hits you need to kill confirm

[deft tinsel]

also pounce can pin but in the case of galli a single omni isnt getting a pin on a galli

[viscid mica]

Fg v fg omni can still pin a galli can they not? It was specifically made that way due to gallis speed if im not mistaken? (The haven’t met a galli to test that in ages so I could be wrong)

[deft tinsel]

i forgot abt that but ive never caught an omni as a galli 😂 have tried tho

on carno however galli yummies all day

[viscid mica]

Yeah

[harsh lark]

How on earth is a knockdown that you can’t kill something in before it gets up a better kill confirm than pinning?

[viscid mica]

BUT YOU CAN THATS THE THING YOU CAN KILL IT BEFORE IT GETS UP

Nothing a peak speed, juvi Rex or Omni can pin can you not kill before it gets up

[harsh lark]

You would need to be frame perfect to do that. Literally just watch any carno gameplay video and you will see that rarely happens. Consistency also plays a role in viability and it’s simply better and more reliable to land a crush or pounce compared to Carno.

[viscid mica]

WDYM RARELY

ITS SO SO EASY TO DO

Honestly I mean this in the nicest way possible I genuinely just think your newer to the game and don’t have the experience with the carno to understand what we are saying no offence meant it’s not your fault it takes time but from what your saying it just sounds like that

[deft tinsel]

good video lmao

[harsh lark]

???

You can watch any video of carno gameplay, I would recommend Saxicolous since he’s good at Carno.

Every-time they land a charge but the target gets away, whether it be by rock, water or bushes-guess what? That is a situation where Juvi Rex would have killed, where Omni would have killed, where Allo would have killed.

There is a thing called trade-offs in game design. Carno trades in its ability to hunt bigger Dino’s for being very good at hunting small Dino’s. As it is currently it is not the best choice for hunting small Dino’s. Which just doesn’t make sense.

[deft tinsel]

i just watched one of his vids. bro is not a good carno sorry...

[viscid mica]

https://youtube.com/shorts/kagRk6gMN88?si=6bVJh_l-Kw8xY3ro

[viscid mica]

I’ll be fair and go watch one rn

[deft tinsel]

i just did one of his latest. it was horrible 💀

[viscid mica]

Also https://youtube.com/shorts/uNh0tbkyU6Y?si=0-2U5P_QqYSUFKVH

[viscid mica]

https://youtu.be/iHIOpqr4nwQ?si=L6sqiOAeefUNYv0A

40 seconds in already made multiple mistakes

-doesnt have manual alt on
-is not eating organs
-doesnt use rmb the pachy
-runs straight into a log and didn’t use drift

Sorry gang bro is not a good carno

[deft tinsel]

literally 😂 watch the cera fight it was hilarious

also im sure this youtuber doesnt acclaim to be a good carno so ur spreading misinfo sino

[viscid mica]

2:01 why did he run away after running back to hit him!?

2:06 easy knock and finish easy out ran him

Honestly that recovery for the random run off is respectable

Also grabbed the organ double recovery

2:54 not sure if the game bugged or he let go of rmb

Alright I’ve seen enough he’s not awful but he’s not particularly good certainly not the best carnos I’ve ever seen

[viscid mica]

Checked him out

Comes down to it even in his video he proved my point that you can punish and kill knocks easily despite in my humble opinion being a pretty average carno player

9:40 I just watched him face tanking a cera….

N-no just no

[harsh lark]

He has videos where he gets 16 muts carno so id say he’s good enough. It’s not very fair to comb through and nitpick every single misplay he makes, people aren’t robots when they play video games.

But feel free to post your own vids if you have better gameplay. Mechanically I think carno is just lackluster compared to the other options for hunting smalls.

[deft tinsel]

weve posted so many clips for u to look at. also it isnt difficult to get 16 mutation dinos that isnt based on skill lol

no people arent robots when they play but u made a comment about consistency earlier and hes pretty consistently...messing up so..

[viscid mica]

Getting max entomb is easy just afk in a corner somewhere or don’t take risky fights that’s not hard to achieve

https://youtu.be/CF1N_h0jVy8?si=ITA0JrraxJskpVCZ

here’s a much better carno gameplay video mettas a isle vet she doesn’t main it but she’s certainly good

I don’t have any personal clips but next time I play carno I’ll record

[tiny gyro]

Yeah, and let's also forget about the fact that Carnotaurus has an incredibly large headbutt hitbox, and any attempt to dodge a Carno ends up hitting you 10 meters away from its head.

Omni is incredibly terribly balanced; it probably has the worst prime stage of any dinosaur I've ever seen. Speed ​​43.2, terrible stamina drain, jumps that won't help you against Pachycyphalosaurus, and speed that makes it impossible to outrun Pachy, Carno, or Dilo. Omni is the one who needs mobility restored.

[vale brook]

both dilo and pachy are slower than omni at 100% prime, lol

infact it looks like omni has the fastest 100% prime elder for carnivores outside of PT and carno... which, duh

[tiny gyro]

No, they're the same speed, and both have better endurance than Omni. It's always easier to catch up; you can choose more accessible angles.
Moreover, if Dilo starts biting, that's it, you can't escape. You can only jump away, but you can't outrun Pachy; Prime is bigger than you, just as fast, and has more endurance.
Meeting Сarno in an open field = 100% death; if Сarno is +- like you, your chances are zero! You can jump over him, but he'll still hit you, since the attack hits a huge area, even if your Omni is 5+ meters away from the impact point.

[vale brook]

...again, look at the spreadsheet.

thats just... wrong?

[tiny gyro]

1.5 km/h is the same speed. Have you ever caught up with someone? You understand that you can't just run straight into the runner's video; you always have the advantage of being the one chasing after.

[vale brook]

oh, so its a skill issue

got it

because frankly yes, 1.5 km/h is more than enough to escape. teno escapes allo/cera pretty easily and its less than a km faster lmao

especially against herbivores such as pachy, because breaking LOS means they literally cant do anything to track you (unless youre bleeding)

[vale brook]

as for dilo, just jump onto a rock. again, youre faster

and yeah frankly carno in an open field should = death for omni because why are you putting yourself into a carnos prime enviornment, knowing that you are their ideal prey?

either get on a rock and wait them out, or make better choices to avoid being seen to begin with

[tiny gyro]

Is this a joke or what? The Omni is 6+ meters long, 6/1.5 = 4 seconds. When approaching, it allows 4 seconds to attack. There are bushes everywhere in Evrim, so getting close isn't a problem.

[vale brook]

so you agree? you can stay hidden to avoid the carnos? because if getting close isnt a problem, then hiding from animals that hunt specifically in open areas should not be a problem

bushes everywhere, right? make smarter plays, learn to utilize stealth more

[tiny gyro]

So, the Omni, which, according to the developers, is the epitome of mobility, should sit on a rock the entire game?
You know what, you're right. 90% of Omni players play like that, either killing their young or sitting on a rock, because the gameplay doesn't encourage anything else. And why do some attacks, like the Carnotaurus' headbutt, have such huge hitboxes when they miss your dinosaur, but the damage still registers?

[tiny gyro]

Is this a joke too?) Or is it a call to sit in the bushes?

[stark ether]

#balance-feedback message

rex being overtuned doesn’t mean other carnivores should be buffed to outperform it

[vale brook]

the epitome of mobility would be the animal with a literal dodge, dryo

and no one is saying "sit on a rock the entire game." keep a mental image in your head of rocks in the area and stay close, especially if youre in a carno favored enviornement. that is called smart decision making in a survival game.

[stark ether]

Carno being able to standing headflip is wild, but it should 100% have a significant advantage in the open vs Utah

[vale brook]

i think standing headflip would be okay if theyd reduce the CC/bleed on it a bit with the slightest of cooldowns

like, adult omnis should be knocked from standing headbutt

prime elders, probably not

[stark ether]

Yeah, if you could bait it like alt attack then sure it’d be a-ok, but it’s just free midtier CC

[vale brook]

tbh id remove bleed from the headbutt as a whole

[tiny gyro]

You meant Troodon? So what's the point of Omni?
Literally every Omni opponent is better at something. Pachy destroys legs, Carno is the fastest, Hera can climb rocks and kill a Raptor with one hit. And what's a Raptor's strength? Jumping? Pachy jumps just as well, so can Troo and Tenontno. Speed? Well, Pachy is just as fast, and Carnotaurus leaves you no chance in a dash.

No seriously, Prime Omni is terrible. What's the point of 660 HP if it doesn't do anything and takes away almost 10 km/h? You can't even jump; you'll jump off two containers in one jump and break your legs.

[vale brook]

...if i meant troodon, i would have said troodon. but per the previous message, i mention the only animal with a literal dodge in game, which is dryo

omni outruns pachy, just break LOS. (this is factual, not an opinion)
refer to previous message on how to deal with carnos, i cant force you to make smart decisions
herrera literally cant do anything to you if you just look up and watch it

omnis excel at hunting large game in large groups, while focusing on basic survival over thriving as a solo animal.

youre creating problems in your head (i.e "pachy is just as fast") and then getting mad at the imaginary problems lol

[tiny gyro]

Yeah, but a solo Troodon is a much more successful hunter, thanks to its mobility, small size, and venom.
That's great advice, hunting in packs, especially when there are almost no Omniraptors in the 200+ online game. Ironic, isn't it? The top 2-3 most popular dinosaurs in the world are very rarely seen in the game itself.

[vale brook]

from petit pieds right now

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/girl-sure-jan-sarcastic-brady-bunch-gif-11590179

[slim dragon]

Teno

[thorn mountain]

sorry mate but you have no clue on what you are talking about

[steep otter]

Teno sucks becouse of its elder being so bad

[viscid mica]

um.... your not accounting for hard caps on dinos

if that chart was accurate to actual isle community in general trex would be significantly higher

[vale brook]

are we going to pretend omniraptor is not consistently one of the most played animals in the game lol

[viscid mica]

no but I am gonna say carno and trex are significantly more played than that, considering 3x the amount of carnos can be on omni and like 20x than rex its not a fair comparison

the rex and carno limit on petite aint nothing to sneeze at

[thin mantle]

Lmao tenonto

That animal is so forgotten

#maketenodive

[rare light]

@lament nexus whats up

[lament nexus]

saying that carnivores will have challenges as if its not already easier to play on herbs 99% by sitting in the corner of the map and eating pumpkins

try to find any player on this big ass map with 100 players

[rare light]

im not talking about herbis lol

im saying carnivores are too easy to grow on ai servers

and ht servers have up to 115 not 100

[thin mantle]

People say carnivores are so much harder to play/grow as if AI doesn’t literally call you directly to it with their audio

I don’t even have a problem with this but the tribalism around carnivore/herbivore growth is so weird, there are carnivores harder to grow than most herbivores, their are herbivores that are harder to grow than most carnivores

It doesn’t all come down to food, food for both is free and consistent

[rare light]

Not gonna lie I find herbivores harder to grow than carnivores, AI has consistent spawns basically everywhere on the map, herbivore pzs and mzs have been bugged for literal years and nothing has been done, you basically have to stay in one spot and risk losing prime or constantly log out to reset pzs

Not to mention food sources for herbis are so small once you get anywhere past 2 tons

Which is good because you're constantly foraging and interacting, but interacting with a bugged mz and pz system

[thin mantle]

Herbivore food is generally easier but herbivore juvis and subs are generally much harder to play

Pretty much all herbi juvis are free food

[rare light]

Yeah I'm just asking because on rex hordetest no ai servers literally had tons of herbivores everywhere and barely any carnis, when I actually grew a prime rex with no AI it felt rewarding and actually like an apex instead of being surrounded by other apex growers who got spam fed the hundreds of deer and boar spawning in one sot

No ai servers feel more like an actual eco system

[thin mantle]

You’re not wrong but dying to starvation in this game is…super cringe

Like it’s not usually a matter of you not being good enough to find good

It’s a matter of you logging onto the server at the right time and getting lucky enough that a large enough playable is findable and logged on

Which makes the game ironically feel much more artificial than if food is simply more plentiful

Because your ability to eat is reliant on very meta aspects of the game

[rare light]

How? AI spawns are everywhere, I've been roaming the map during this hordetest and just gauging the eco system and theres always goats spawning at hl, always boars and deer in the plains, seaturtles and grabs are seemingly fixed, and even tho elite fish are bugged rn and give zero diet, they are spawning EVERYWHERE in the water

[thin mantle]

I’m talking about servers with no AI as I was responding to your perspective on servers like that

It’s easy to feed any Dino on officials

Nobody here would deny that

My hopium future for the state of AI is that we get AI that’s engaging to catch/fight so that it’s less about sustainability and more about engagement

[rare light]

Oh, I guess I can see how finding food on no ai servers is luck when you kind of have to be during a high population but imo that's just one of the cons and this only applies to carnivores too

Herbivores can find food even if they're the only one on

[thin mantle]

It does only apply to carnivores, but it makes carnivore gameplay super unimmersive as a result

Because your only allowed to play the game based on the playerbase situation on the server

You’re ball and chained by the meta, not the game itself

[rare light]

To an extent, you just have to know where to look and be resourceful, that's also the point of having multiple servers in different regions so you can actually play with people in your timezone

[thin mantle]

But like

Knowing where to look doesn’t matter, it’s not like players will actually be there

Or players you can catch or will feed you

If everyone is playing galli/pachy and you’re on Rex, you’ll starve

Like I think every player should be near guaranteed to find food, but not guaranteed in being able to eat it

Otherwise we’re just playing on starvation timers based on luck, and that’s a waste of time

And not expressive of player skill and knowledge

[rare light]

It does, if you're looking for herbivores at swamp you most likely wont find any, but if you somewhere more high risk like redwoods you can find food more likely

[thin mantle]

Maybe, or you won’t

And you’ll die

[rare light]

Yeah but then thats a whole other solution, im just asking for the servers to be brought back, not like anybody has to play on them. I just know a hand full of people were filling up the no ai servers

[rare light]

And that's ultimately survival

Sometimes you'll starve and sometimes you'll find a juvenile dibble sitting down where you can ambush it

[thin mantle]

So is dying of a stubbed toe

But that’s lame in terms of gameplay, so therefor we don’t have that as it’s a waste of player time

[rare light]

Dying of starvation in a survival game is lame?

[thin mantle]

Dying due to circumstances you have no ability to influence is lame

Dying of starvation because you lack the competence to eat the food you do find is a different thing

I think food should be available but not free to get

Which is why I want more difficult ai, like competently made AI Dino’s that flee properly and fight back if they’re large enough

Make it more engaging instead of just hoping to get lucky that you find a burger in the woods

[rare light]

Yeah but that's a whole other suggestion

And is not being able to find AI also something you have no ability to influence?

And you don't have any ability to influence it, but it doesn't mean we should just add automatic tracking for carnivores

If you know where to look, you can find AI, if you know where to look, you can find herbivores

[thin mantle]

No, it respawns frequently

If you’re unable to find it you’re just not listening

[rare light]

But you can't influence AI spawns

You can only hope you find some

[thin mantle]

No, but they’re consistent

[rare light]

Right but that wasnt your point

[thin mantle]

Yes it is

If it’s a consistent element baked into the game that you can rely on

[rare light]

You said that dying to starvation by lack of control is lame, thats the same thing as not being able to find AI

[thin mantle]

You have no need to influence it as a means to be successful

[thin mantle]

No, because the ai is ALWAYS there

Players aren’t, that’s the difference

If you can’t find AI, skill issue

If you can’t find players that just super unlucky

And if you can find players but they’re animals too small or fast to feed you, even worse

[rare light]

Idk, people call, you can track footprints, track eaten food, go to hotspots, I've found people on 10 player servers before

[thin mantle]

Yeah and you got lucky

[rare light]

And sometimes realism is about luck, that's why I want no ai servers

Maybe a hungry rex may find a young herd of trikes at east lake, maybe it wont, thats life

If you dont want to play it dont, but some people do and it isnt hurting anybody

[thin mantle]

Right but like…the isle is a video game that takes dozens if real hours to play and invest into

We dont want those hours going to waste because the game refuses to give you the chance to live

[rare light]

Bru then dont play no ai servers

[thin mantle]

I’m happy for those servers to exist

[rare light]

There are literally hundreds of people who did infact play them

[thin mantle]

And they do

[rare light]

It isnt just a small amount of people

[lament nexus]

if herbs have food everywhere on floor carnivores can have too, its not always possible to play people sometimes you have to walk for hours to find someone who isnt big herd of 10 herbs

on unofficial its works fine without ai but not offical

[rare light]

Well they dont exist right now on hordetest

[thin mantle]

No because it would be useless data

The game is designed and balanced around AI existing

So the devs don’t gain any data from the test to add a no ai server

[rare light]

Useless? Hundreds of people were on no ai servers last hordetest lol wdym

[thin mantle]

It’s not an official release version of the game, it’s for data analytics

[rare light]

Okay and is a full server of ai not getting as much data as a full server without ai? It's the same amount of players

[thin mantle]

The game direction isn’t balanced around a lack of AI, AI as a system is being expanded upon. The fact that there are no Non Ai servers in this test may even be evident that the data gained by the last hordetest No Ai servers wasn’t very useful

[thin mantle]

If you’re testing for mechanics, player movements, and new Dino AI, and have a server that lacks AI entirely, then you’re wasting server space gaining data that doesn’t help development

[rare light]

Ok so you're just losing data on AI, which hundreds of people are constantly reporting and have an entire dedicated channel spefically to report ai issues on

That's worth having another full server for your players to enjoy, to test the hordetest

[thin mantle]

Why would you think anyone is losing data on ai

Ai is one of the things the hordetest exists to test

Since the future direction of the game has much more AI animals than we have currently

It’s like having a server that for some reason lacks night vision

Why would that server exist for testing, it isn’t testing anything that needs data on

Official and unofficial live branch servers sure, have no AI servers

[rare light]

Do you think AI is the only thing they want data on?

[thin mantle]

No, but why would Ai being on the servers mean that’s the only thing they get data on

[rare light]

AI is a big part but they can still gather data from an entire area of a new eco system

[thin mantle]

It’s not, demonstrable as evident but all current feedback channels

Like for example

You can’t play troodon without AI

You just can’t, it has zero lethality to any playable

You will starve way before you’re old enough to hunt anything

[rare light]

You definitely can

Scavenging

[thin mantle]

Right, which is again

[rare light]

Bbay troodon is meant to scavenge anyway

[thin mantle]

Totally out of your hands

[rare light]

Which is how survival is

[thin mantle]

Again that’s not a good excuse

So is contracting genetic illnesses and tripping and dying

But those, much like starving with no alternatives, isn’t fun or engaging to play

[rare light]

Right cause then you're reaching into the levels of hyper realism gameplay

Relying on luck to find food isnt hyper realism, its just a tiny bit of realism to make the game more interesting

And again there's no downside to having these servers, people still play them, and nobody is forced to play them

[thin mantle]

Right which like I said

I’m fine for these servers to exist off the hordetest

I’m only discussing why there’s a lot of merit to having consistent food sources and why the hordetest shouldn’t lack these for the sake of accurate testing conditions

[rare light]

No ai hordetest will still provide a bunch of data

Just not anything on AI

[thin mantle]

AI is an essential component to the intended gameplay experience

It integrates with tons of systems in the game including dispersal

And there’s…like no reason to disable it at all

[rare light]

Better ecosystem for those who want it, it's just for player enjoyability on the hordetest

The pros outweigh the cons for no ai servers, the only con is just that you get less data from ai servers

[harsh lark]

No ai just makes carni gameplay dependent on luck (finding unguarded player corpses or juvies small enough to kill) or having adult friends who can feed you. It’s not more challenging, it’s just an artificial filter for solo carni’s.

[thin mantle]

Right but that’s not the point of the hordetest

Like obviously it’s not supposed to NOT be fun but it’s primarily to test new mechanics and additions

[mint star]

No AI servers were incredibly good, but they ran empty because of the perpetual:

I want to join no AI -> there is noone playing on the server -> I don’t want to play on an empty server

[stark ether]

AI supports adult, large carnivore populations far too easily. (Love when a server is 20% Rexes lol)

As far as I’m aware, you can’t turn off just the big AI and keep the small AI.

No AI at all does equate to forced player engagement, which imo is good. But some smaller carnivores need AI to grow without relying on luck.

[mint star]

the carnivore players that heavily rely on AI died of skill issue and then played herbivore or omnivore instead

[stark ether]

The swarms of adult Rexes in delta would lead me to believe otherwise

[mint star]

the few carnivores that survived, were moderately rare in comparison to the average official server

[stark ether]

AI servers just need the option to turn off like, deer and boar and goats, just keep the lil stuff

[mint star]

it’s a damn shame the servers died off

[glossy elbow]

hopefully its something they'll try again one day

[torn egret]

Personally, the no AI servers worked well when there was a higher ratio of players on the various herbivores.
I know, AI server naturally curbs. The population of the big Apex is like Rex, allo, etc
It was a good place for herbi to play
The problem now however, is everyone seems to be playing the game for the PVP, so we would just end up having a lot of players feeding carnivores like we have now and a lot of the official servers, etc.
It could be so good, but it’s not worth it when most people are playing the big stuff only

It would be interesting to see if they could do a small AI server
Like the only things that you would be able to find would be crabs tacos compy, frog and rabbit etc
And the fish including elite

[mint star]

people have always played this game for the PVP

it’s always been about the PVP

I just wanted to talk about that specific point because I hate it

[torn egret]

True, but I think a lot of people miss out on a lot of the cool interactions and experiences You can have just by focusing only on PVP if that makes sense.

When everyone’s able to play things like a Rex, or allo that’s pretty much all you end up seeing

The only thing I’m worried about long-term is the death of the small to medium tiers

[rocky coral]

@limber portal I don't think reducing the clones damage is the way, I think changing the effect of the venom to something more trippy as well as somewhat dark would be better. I also think that dilo needs more mobility to dodge attacks rather than making the venom OP.

[spring burrow]

why is this clownvoted

not only is it downvoted it's even clownvoted, why

i don't see a problem with 2 or 3 no AI hordetest servers

Yes I understand that it's best to test in official conditions which include AI, but what about the servers without ai

nice to see how stuff performs without ai as well as with ai

[torn egret]

Cause people want to be able to play there Rex and allo with no difficulty. It’s pretty much always like that.
Unless the herbivores are the strongest PVP playable, then there’s really no reason for them to hop on it lol

There’s no AI servers can be really difficult to play as a carnivore, but with the entertainment system and everything else now, there’s actually a possibility of it working out

I would love to see a few of those for this Ht. Even some regular official servers.

[spring burrow]

few of what, No AI servers?

[torn egret]

Yup

Sorry if I wasn’t clear, voice to text doesn’t always work out well for me lol

[spring burrow]

honestly i advise everyone to stay away from official

they're poorly moderated and honestly, 100 playercap isn't enough for gateway

[lofty epoch]

I feel like 100 player cap wouldn’t feel so empty if the elder system actually penalized siting in a bush for so long

[torn egret]

I’m actually the opposite.
Learning the game but a very basic mechanics of spawns for AI, etc. It’s pretty forgiving all things considered and it’s a good way to teach people how to survive on their own without help from a server.
Even if they’re poorly moderated, dealing with hackers and mixed packers is just kind of part of the experience in my opinion as much as it sucks
It’s just that the bigger stuff is far more attractive to play to most people because they view this game as another PVP game, allowed to miss out on the cool experiences. You can have as a smaller Dino.
But that’s just me. I don’t play this game only for the PVP but the random interactions and encounters you can have. Of course that includes combat, but I don’t think that’s the only thing this game has to offer.

[torn egret]

The problem is, people shouldn’t be just sitting in a bush until they’re full grown.
It’s boring, and there’s really no reason to do a grow in a bush simulator for the sake of combat. It’s like playing a game for a six hour respawn lol

[spring burrow]

even if everyone roamed, 100 isn't enough. the map is quite large and it feels pretty empty in large areas of the map

[torn egret]

In 100 players would be fine if the players didn’t do that just because they didn’t want to die early on. Part of the experience of this game is failing to make it to full grown. It’s a lot more satisfying to me when I finally make it to 100% Dino than it is to just sit in the bush for hours just to die because you don’t know how to fight.

[spring burrow]

to be fair, in a lot of rex's life stages - it's quite vulnerable. roaming freely as a rex that just started gaining weight (aka right after the speedy phase) or roaming as a slow juvie for example is a death sentence
that's why they stay very sneaky

i rarely see fresh sub rexes unless they're in the speedy phase, or with an adult

[torn egret]

But it’s kind of like that for every playable though
And honestly, I think it’s kind of silly to not try to interact or fight things when you’re smaller.
It’s just that everyone’s also playing the big stuff so you’re less likely to run into things that you can deal with at all your various growth stages

[lofty epoch]

Thats my point, if the elder system was implemented correctly, it would actually deter people from sitting in a bush for 6 hours

[torn egret]

I definitely don’t like how you can just hit all the conditions and then just sit in the bush. Which is what I’m guessing that you’re talking about
For me, I would like each stage to have certain conditions that you have to hit
Obviously, for smaller tears, it might not be needed because of how fast they grow, but some of the bigger stuff that has two hours of grow time plus could easily do multiple zones in the various stages of life, and it would make it far more engaging

But a lot of people also just try to hit the easiest of the requirements
For Troodon for example, you don’t have to hit a sanctuary at all if you just roam around and travel your entire life. Once you get perfect diet, all you have to do is go to a single MZ.
But a lot of people think that the sanctuary is a requirement otherwise they’ll never get prime, because the travel was just too risky
It is just weird to me that people play this like a PVP game with multiple hour respawns essentially lol

[lofty epoch]

I feel like something like that would really help with making the map feel more alive, maybe even increasing the difficulty to get prime but making the frail less of a punishment, you would be surprised by the amount of people that try to min-max their life in this game

Theres people that are willing to throw a rex from a cliff if they get frail

[spring burrow]

I don't think that'll do much. People AFK-grew just as much as they do now prior to the whole elder addition

Have you played a 400-pop server before nuclear?

[lofty epoch]

Yes, bc there was no punishment for doing so, and if theres something greater they can try to achieve, most people will try to do so

[spring burrow]

have you played a server like petits pieds or smth?

[lofty epoch]

400 pop servers feel alive bc theres more people in the server, not bc the players decide to be more active, theres still plenty of people afk’ing in bushes in the corner of the map living of body drops (equivalent to living out of ai)

[spring burrow]

i honestly think that should be the solution

better optimization and paving way for larger pops

especially now that we're getting more and more playables

[torn egret]

I think that MZs and PZs can't be active at the same time in an area as well.
Making it so you have to leave an area to go to another one would help spread players out.
I also think that they could add an additional Elder stage.
At 88%, (Peak), you can have 2 final stat possibilities. The current 100% stats, or a slightly increased 100%.
This would only happen if players travel and move to different zones in their early elder, 75-87%.
Meaning that the more players move and engage with the map, the better their 100% dino can be.
Thus players that wanna just stay as a dino forever won't feel too hurt by the end of the elder system nor feel punished as much, but players that do engage with it and entomb could get a benefit. Maybe starting with 1 fewer requirement for the next Prime.
But I also think players should visit zones in both their juvi and sub growth. Not just run in delta for 15 min and have Prime no matter what.

[spring burrow]

hm

[viscid mica]

@sacred moat carnos do get stunned if they ram anything above their weight by a certain margin and can only stagger up to a certain point.

If your a full prime that’s knocking down anything 1600 and below staggering anything under 2.1-1.6 but gets stuck on self stuns and takes abit of damage of anything over 2.1T

[sacred moat]

In front of my eyes, the Carnotaurus stood still, knocked the Allosaurus down, and simply beat it with its horns. This is not normal.

[viscid mica]

If the carno was capable of knocking the allo down it was 1.6T or smaller

While I do agree the standing stun is goofy

What your asking for isn’t a fix it’s a nuke nerf which has no good results ever

I’ve made a post recently just abit after addressing current carno but simply “if you stun why can’t I stun” won’t make it better

It’ll just make people stop playing it

Similar to what happened to pachy on its release

[sacred moat]

I am outraged not only by the fact that a carnotaur can abuse a fast standing attack, but also by the discrepancy in the size of the models. The Allosaurus was a large model, and it was just kicked standing up. This is ridiculous(

[viscid mica]

What were you?

Also sub note allo can attack faster than that carno can with basic bite

[sacred moat]

I was a friend of this guy, and another one like him, and we just met a minotaur that was smaller than us, and he somehow managed to knock my friend over while he was standing. To be honest, it didn't look very impressive.

[viscid mica]

The size vision in this game can be abit jarring as they do a excellent job with camera models when your small bigger things feel way bigger were as when your big small things feel itty

[viscid mica]

Gonna assume yall were a trio of sub allos?

Or large juvis

Allo when a large juvi or sub definitely feels a lot bigger than it is your only slightly bigger/same size as a full prime cerato and carnos are rather skinny so they can feel smaller than you as equal sized things due to that

[sacred moat]

There were two of us, and as it turned out, so were the Carnotaurs, yes. To be honest, I hadn't seen before how ridiculous this attack looks from the spot (carnot) from the outside. And for the first time I became a witness. It didn't look good.

It's so weird)

[viscid mica]

Oh ya charge spam is insanely strong

If you see my post here #balance-feedback message I addressed carno as well as allo

Tbh large juvi allos or young subs are such a good hunt for fg prime carno as a lot of allos will ego it and try and fight but don’t realize how much stronger you are

[junior jay]

#phase-three-requests message
those calls have already been leaked accept para cause they havent even started doing it

[viscid mica]

@tight cove the blackout screen is a bug that simple isn’t a priority atm from what we understand

[tight cove]

Oh ok, I wonder what is on their priorities list though

[viscid mica]

Server stability and game breaking bugs come first

[tight cove]

Nice

[viscid mica]

It’ll get fixed at some point

[tight cove]

I’ll remove my statement

[viscid mica]

Np Dw about it

[urban moth]

@cobalt dagger it can only catch those things if it sneaks up on them. and if it does, they deserve to die

[bitter iris]

Not true, Rex can run 40 mph with its 15 second ambush. Kentro runs 29 at 100 prime, allo 35, Diablo <35. That’s easily enough time and speed to catch up. It doesn’t need a crazy nerf but smth like 10 second ambush and no prime speed would be fine.

[urban moth]

100 prime iss when you're at your weakest. if you play at 100 you're destined to die. if i remember correctly, dilo is 38 or something at 100

[hasty coyote]

Even if we count adult, kentro and Diablo adults run at like 34 kph and get 1-tapped by crush

[bitter iris]

Dilo is 41. But it’s not just at 100% it’s the everything leading up to it and still at peak prime 40 for most Rex is the same speed. A 3.6 ton allo is the same speed as a 11 ton Rex. It’s not an ambush if you can use it well without having to ambush. Keep in mind 40 mph is faster than Diablo and kentro will ever get.

[urban moth]

It's called apex for a reason, don't let it get close to you and you're fine. Prime rexes cannot outrun prime allos

[cosmic pelican]

An 88% peak prime cera is 39.7kmh, slower than an elder rex's murder sprint, which is 40.44kmh. Not even mentioning sub rex who can still pin it and has a faster ambush.

[urban moth]

If you're within ambush-range, it's your fault. Then dying is your doing

"strongest in the game" doesn't necessarily mean "broken and unbalanced"
something will always be at the top and whatever that is will always be accused of being "broken"

[cosmic pelican]

88% allo is 39.2kmh, an adult allo is 39.8kmh, both slower than a rex

[urban moth]

yeah slower than a rex (only if you're within the ambush range, which then you deserve to die)
Just don't get ambushed

[bitter iris]

#balance-feedback message most people want the speed drops offs to change.

[bitter iris]

The ambush range is crazy large though and again it’s not an ambush it’s a speed boost. I have seen 5 total Rexes ever use ambush as an ambush tool and 2 of those were from YouTube videos. They aren’t using them as ambush because they don’t have too. 15 seconds is NOT an ambush it’s just a flat out boost to your speed.

[urban moth]

what i meant to say is stay outside of its 15second sprint zone. if it gets close enough to you where you're within that, it's your fault

@rose cobalt why

[cosmic pelican]

If a 39.2kmh allo gets within 60 meters of a rex, the rex will have enough time to catch up with it before its ambush runs out.

Maybe its subjective but 60 meters seems like a large distance for me when were talking about an ambush.

[bitter iris]

Again that zone is massive, no longer an ambush a speed boost. Also it getting speed a prime can also just allow it to outrun and kill any sub Rex. And 40 is super fast but 33 isn’t that slow either.

[rose cobalt]

less than a minute of spawning, dead regularly..
only limit spaces for dienos to be even more limited water sources that get used for drinking.... because of all this its already hard to find other food, so its not like we can just spread out much

[urban moth]

rex is the biggest thing you can see on land rn, you should see it from even hundreds of meters away. if it gets within 60 meters of you, shouldn't that be enough to die?

[bitter iris]

And that’s an allo who is just barely slower, what about a 34 mph Diablo.

[bitter iris]

Oh so many bushes, luckily they gotten more reduced in the hordetest but still easily enough to not see a Rex.

[cosmic pelican]

Not that easy to spot a rex when highlands, savanna, south plains and pretty much every other hotspot is littered with gigantic bushes.

Only truly rex safe spots I can think of are some areas of delta, and north east, everywhere else the foliage is dense enough to consistently hide a rex till it gets in range.

[cosmic pelican]

Actually lemme math that rq

[cosmic pelican]

90 meters and the dibble is dead meat

[urban moth]

Yeah that's my point, if it gets close to you through bushes then you just weren't vigilant enough. and it just happened to get the upper hand on you
boom dead. I don't think that's unfair

[cobalt dagger]

What skortch said; Prime rex is able to outrun prime allo by pressing spacebar.

[bitter iris]

Again you don’t need to be close to the rex. Why should rex even need to be that fast for that long in the first place? Why does it need that?

[cobalt dagger]

It can be very far away and press spacebar and catch up to you, this also varies per age. The speed of cera and allo get gutted when they get old. When a rex gets old he can still catch things and not die to stuff but cera and allo get hopelessly pinned and outran when they loose their speed.

[urban moth]

yeah only if it gets close enough. and if it does, then the allo got ambushed. that's what i mean

[urban moth]

It's an apex

[cosmic pelican]

But dibble dies if it gets within a whole football field distance from a rex, isnt that extreme you think? Its a range so big its easy to accidentally just wander into lol

[cobalt dagger]

'Close enough' is often the other side of the field. Rexes should not be outrunning things from the other side of fields. Not to mention they also trot you down because you trot slower and they easily trot down allos. You have to log out once they get your smell!

You could fix this by dramatically shortening the speed boost acquired by pressing spacebar so he can't boost across a field. But that would be a nerf. Which is what I'm saying we should do to Rex.

It's why Rex isn't OK right now. I know he beats up other apexes but part of me is at more peace with that then rex outrunning everything else

[urban moth]

Rex is a very powerful apex. Not op, just powerful
If you want to talk about OP, Maia is up there (against mid tiers). Runs things down. It halves cera's health within 2 seconds with that front attack

[urban moth]

Can you show a screenshot referring to what you mean by other side of the field?

[cobalt dagger]

Maia is also an afront to balancing when it comes to both face tanking and outrunning something. However I see maia die to cera more than the other way around because of maia's high end lag on attacks, terrible acceleration and speed loss on turn and slow turn speed. AKA if the cera goes in circles the maia can't keep up.

[urban moth]

I'll make an example
Yk the bridge on delta? that bridge. If rex is on one side, and allo is on the other, rex is not outrunning that allo. That's fair
But if allo gets met midway, then it should die

[cobalt dagger]

I don't have a bunch of recording of my own gameplay but I recommend you watch some of 'JESUS' gameplay on youtube when he plays as a rex, watch how he hunts allo, hunts diablo as a rex, and also watch his video on diablo how he has to log out to escape rexes.

[cosmic pelican]

If an adult stego running at 29.1kmh gets within 170 meters of a prime rex, it gets ran down and dies, amazing

[keen plover]

Not OP dw

[cobalt dagger]

Well, here's some math for you ^

[urban moth]

It's a stego. Completely fair.

[keen plover]

😭

[bitter iris]

That’s not “balanced”. your reasoning for why he can keep his insane speed is just because he has a title? He takes longer to grow? Should trike get +1000 damage?

[urban moth]

Stegos are slow, that's how it is. If it was faster, it would obliterate mid tiers

[cobalt dagger]

You don't think it's bad for a creature to die in a single right click, and also be unable to run away?...

[urban moth]

Remind me how much that fresh adult 75% stego weighs again? and then compare it to what the prime rex weighs?

[cosmic pelican]

A dibble running at 34kmh dies when it gets into a 90 meter vicinity of a rex. 90 meters is a whole lenght of your average football field

[urban moth]

I don't think that's the right math

[cobalt dagger]

I understand that there is a huge size difference but then what we should do is make stego faster to escape what it can't fight and then make mid tiers faster so they can escape stego, who they can't fight.

[urban moth]

Trike shouldn't get more damage at all, but it deserves more fracture resistence imo

[cobalt dagger]

Ideally if you can't fight it, you escape it. And if you can't escape it, you fight it. And if you can't do either and 'just die,' then the species will never be played.

[stark knoll]

Or just reduce prime rex speed/rex ambush duration instead of sweeping speed changes

[urban moth]

that would ruin the entire balance. You can't just make things faster to avoid 1 thing

[bitter iris]

What?! So why doesn’t rex obliterate mid tiers when it one taps them and is literally 10 mph faster than stego

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah that's what I offered in the beginning, reduce ambush

[urban moth]

It doesn't

[cobalt dagger]

We need more speed wiggle room anyway. We currently need to make everything faster, because the speed difference between prime allo, prime rex and prime cera is CLOSE tight. But surely we wanna add more species that are smaller than rex and bigger than cera, right? How are we going to slot them into the balance?

With or without nerfing ambush we need to make everything faster/slower/make more speed difference to make space for new species to slot in.

[urban moth]

I think we can just agree to disagree tbh, i personally don't think rex's ambush is out of hand. It's ok that some people choose to believe that

[bitter iris]

Proof? I have personally been run down by Rexes, there’s many videos of it too. Proof that it does.

[cobalt dagger]

It does though, and it's nightmarish when you have the sub and juvi rexes who are faster and pin cera/teno but also run faster, or juvi rexes who pin raptors but run faster than carnos.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah what skortch said, just go watch some youtube, check the youtuber 'jesus'

[urban moth]

You haven't, unless you were in that ambush range. which imo then it's your fault

[cobalt dagger]

This is fair, to agree to disagree

If you desire for us to leave you alone I can respect that.

[bitter iris]

We’re going circles…. I stand by my point.

And yea its speed can work
If the ambush time is reduced

[cobalt dagger]

I personally think though another layer of pain to all this is things loosing their speed when they become elderly. For trike this isn't a death sentence since it still has beastly base stats and it was slow anyway so slower isn't a death sentence. But for cera it's a death sentence, a 100% cera (prime or no prime don't matter) is caught and pinned by allo and rex.

[urban moth]

yeah dilo also at 38kmh is pretty insane, it's harmless

especially considering the fact that troo and dilo aren't really night terrors at all, their NV isn't anything special compared to other carnivores

[dawn cipher]

This. Maia's high strength is mostly balanced by a high skill ceiling; good maias are pretty oppressive, but they're far outnumbered by bad maias which are walking burgers. Rex's murder sprint allows it to run down huge chunks of the roster and that has nothing to do with sneaking up on them, and onetap kills most things with crush regardless of experience/skill.

[dusky surge]

Acknowledging Maia’s egregiously broken state while still defending Rex is certainly a choice

Both animals are disgusting, but it mainly boils down to being fast, tanky and incredibly powerful at the same time, along with having incredibly unfair prime elders, which both apply to.

The only real defence I saw for Rex is “it’s an apex”, which boils down to “arbitrary titles justifying balance for thee but not for me”

[dawn cipher]

Yeah, if the whole thing hinges on "it's an apex" then we ought to make trike 35kmh plus a speed boost, and give it bonebreak as well, and it wouldn't be broken because it's an apex! If you die to it that's your fault. /s

A 10+t rex is almost as nimble as a 450kg omniraptor with its absurdly fast alt-bite, tight turn speed for its size, high run speed with murder sprint, extremely good stamina regeneration, bone break on virtually all attacks, is quiet for its size, and of course can just tap spacebar and pin2win to win most encounters with crush. If a maia is bad, a cera can beat it. If a rex is bad, it doesn't really matter against anything except other rexes and sometimes trikes, you just dominate the ecosystem by default even if you camped sea turtles for 60% of your growth

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message "trike has a bug involving its hitbox & its MOST DAMAGE INTENSE ATTACK that locks it into place and makes it extremely baitable and abusable, so to counter this i think rex should be able to 3 tap triceratops with normal bites."

wat

[glacial vale]

I did not say this what happend to my message

I'll fix it later

[stark ether]

I can see prime Rex having crazy acceleration, but that’s not the same as having crazy speed

[floral mauve]

Allo right click to win needs few changes. It’s just not a fun game play to click one time and in many or most cases be guaranteed a victory without any skill. It’s

Stamina needs to either drop at 3x the current rate when grappled on and the bleed/dmg needs to be slightly reduced by Around 5%. These are minor changes that would encourage a little more actual gameplay.

[bitter iris]

Honestly I would much rather a compete overhaul of pounce instead.

[floral mauve]

Yes. It’s got a great kit overall. But the average person never uses it. Its actual swipe is awesome. But the pounce should come at a cost. Also need collision with objects. Which would go a long ways in solving the larger issue of infinite grapple.

[bitter iris]

Grapple math was recently changed which is a step in the right direction. Pounce should be changed to either 1 actually for fill a large game hunt niche or 2 be made to help it hunt in packs or 2-3.

[rocky coral]

Ratio'd

[finite shadow]

do we know what it was changed to

[bitter iris]

🤷‍♂️

[junior jay]

#balance-feedback message @cobalt dagger
uh wayy too op pack of dilos ambushing a prime trike could melt it before it even has time to sit up

also troodon only gets 3x dmg when at max venom and it cant spam pounce that fast

[cobalt dagger]

If they bite multiple times they will recharge their clones but they can't recharge it past 3, so spamming bites would give them 3 clones at max still until they back away and summon them with the laugh animation.

[cobalt dagger]

^ Forgot to make it a reply

Dilo would also only get clones at max venom, like troodon.

Thanks for letting me know troo only gets 3x damage though.

1st bite + 3 clones = 4x damage and then get clones per bite, not overtime means they need to bite again or nothing happens, and gotta work up the prey to being envenomed first.

But we could reduce it to 1 clone per bite easily and even make it harder to apply venom

[junior jay]

still you said it will do 4x dmg for each bite which is 300 per bite with around allo bite speed and after that you get bombarded by dilo clones so it would melt maybe a lil too fast

[cobalt dagger]

No I mean, no increase to dilo biteforce

The 3 clones are where the 4x is coming from

Dilo already has a secret increased biteforce, it's clones.

[cobalt dagger]

So I'm saying that dilo will have to put venom on you, using normal bite force. Then, after that, I'm saying clones must be recharged by biting the prey. The charge should still be 3 clones, so if you spam-bite 5 or 6 times you get 3 clones at max still.

[junior jay]

i see then it would be fine if the dmg scales with size ofc so that sub dilo doesnt do 300 per clone though 4x might be still too much maybe around 2.5x could be balanced

[cobalt dagger]

^ Precisely

[cobalt dagger]

Forgot to make it a reply again but, yes, exactly.

We could balance it further by making dilo need to bite more to apply venom.

Maybe venom should be a state of DOOM? Like, 'you've got too far' moment.

Maybe dilo should take a lot longer to put venom on a trike?

That way the trike can SEE while it fights dilo.

And then, when trike is half dead (hard to get a trike that way with no venom) then there's some venom or something like that. Like, bring dinos to half before venom fog effects take place.

That way dilo needs to fight normally until it's prey is half hp.

[junior jay]

hmm if the venom needs too many bites then i think it would too bad for the dilo since it heavily relies on venom visibility (cause of bad turn)

[cobalt dagger]

It's my opinion that dilo should have better turn, it's hitbox is also atrocious. It just, doesn't hit even when it looks like it should've.

I love dilo and it's like, probably one of the things I play most of next to Teno. But you gotta think about the fun of the prey as well as the fun of the dilo. The lack of visibility is unfun combat mechanics for the prey.

[junior jay]

im not sure about the turn cause it cant turn too fast so it doesnt replace omni (it is faster)😅

[cobalt dagger]

I think everyone will have more fun if dilo just, had better mobility so it didn't NEED to hit the prey with unfun blindness.

[junior jay]

yeh a slight turn buff wouldnt hurt and the visibility needs some work

[cobalt dagger]

Omni can get on rocks and has a whole different ecosystem niche with grapple, and damage pounce.

But also as a dilo omni's better turn doesn't save him from me dilo can still turn good enough to tail ride or you can just predict where the omni is going and bit there and he'll often turn right into your bite, kinda like how a carno steps back and charges where the omni is circling towards.

AKA I'm saying omni needs something else to save it from dilo because the increased agility hasn't saved any omni I fought yet.

[junior jay]

yeh omni heavily relies on turn when fighting dilos (and pounce i guess) in every other way dilo is better

[cobalt dagger]

This is true. They could perhaps make more trees that omni can jump into.

Like trees with low branches omnis can jump on. That would make more sense than random rocks.

It would help omni with carno too.

[junior jay]

they are hard to land on when panicking

[cobalt dagger]

They could also give omni better stamina than dilo. This won't doom dilo; omni uses stamina in it's attacks like pounce and dilo does not really. So if omni tried to hunt dilo their stamina would decrease and then even out because of it.

But better stamina won't help if he dies first. I think more things to hop on are better.

If you design the tree right it might not be too hard to hop on. What if it looks like a tree that's broken in half like in the concept art?

[junior jay]

more stam as in more time to dmg pounce

[cobalt dagger]

Damage pounce stamina drain percentage could be kept the same.

It drain by a percent. Just make sure pounce costs the same percent but that running costs less percent.

[junior jay]

yeh though omni does not need any more buffs😭 (accept bleed pounce)

[torn egret]

The bleed system needs a rework overall.
They tried to adjust the values with the current system and that’s what broke raptor for a bit when it had 8x bleed.
Once it’s fixed, then we can drop the damage pounce damage or increase stam on it, then have bleed scale more on hp as wel

[viscid mica]

@tardy wind

Your wrong for 2 reasons about dilo

1.the venom is bugged it shouldn’t be that blinding

2.clones are counter able you can hit them before they hit you

[tardy wind]

1. Yes I’m well aware the brightness is bugged

2. You physically cannot hit them before they hit you. They hit upon any contact, feel free to try it and prove me wrong but I promise you, you can’t.

I know it’s intended to be that way but it hasn’t been for 90% of dilo’s time in the game

[hasty coyote]

clones should be able to be countered by hitting them, but currently they can't, at least not reasonably.

[viscid mica]

Yes you physically can but it’s hard cuz it’s so dark

[viscid mica]

Yes it’s dark af but you can

[hasty coyote]

Ime I have seen people try to hit the clones and still just get chowed down by them, so I'm unsure if its even possible without the darkness. Though its also just too dark to even see and they are just missing. (That and/or its an issue with lag and you have to prediction hit them)

[viscid mica]

We tested abit you CAN hit them rn but you have to pretty much use a alt as if it reaches a damageable hitbox before you hit its you will just take the damage regardless

@spice tiger easy to abuse by following a random group as a galli or dilo/carno/omni/pt

aka mix packs will use it to starve out or annoy groups

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s about what I expected, so for many species that’s not exactly feasible to do consistently (especially with bad ping)

[tight cove]

@turbid roost Herrera is an excellent ambush predator that can kill things that weigh 1000kg or less very consistently , either with direct dmg or the bleed, there’s legit no reason to change it’s hunting style. That’s like making a rex or deino into a bleeder like Omni or allo, Herrera actually has to setup ambushes and land perfectly to get a kill and the fun part comes from setting up the ambush and executing it flawlessly weather the prey does from the dmg or you bleed it out. And you can avoid Herreras for the most part by just paying attention &/or avoid the well known areas they stay at.

Also as a Herrera if your playing correctly stam isn’t to big of an issue when your hunting since when you land your initial pounce on something your stamina should be high or completely full already, and if they survive the hit and the follow up bites while they are knocked down or stunned just chase them and they will bleed out most likely.

[autumn zephyr]

#balance-feedback message
If you buff trike's agility no one will be able to hunt it anymore, imo trike stat wise is perfect, all it needs is the hold lmb stun back (which from what ive heard is back in hordetesting so yay), and the ability to go out of spar removed

reduce rex's agility while we're at it and we got the perfect 60/40 matchup, if the trike gets ambushed then the rex has the upper hand, if not the trike does but even then its not over for the rex, sparing could reward it for correct plays or if the trike misplays the rex should still have enough agility to get behind it and punish it

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

nerf kentro speed?? why? it'd be slower than diablo

also "fix pinslop" like that means anything

[thorn mountain]

just fix it

[viscid mica]

@faint pond it’s a physical embodiment of damage over time just more interactive and less “oh now I’m slowly dying” they didn’t want 2 bleeds

@stable forge so why do we want kentro that is already too slow even slower?

Like you were almost good but you slid that randomly in there and ruined the whole feedback

[stable forge]

it's faster than allo

[viscid mica]

The thing that’s over a ton bigger naturally?

Crazy how that works

[dense hamlet]

yeah no that's a crazy take, kentro is already too slow

[bitter iris]

So is Diablo and Maia if the allo is 100%

[hasty coyote]

It’s not through. Adult kentro is a bit over 34 and prime is slightly under 38. Prime allo (who loses speed compared to adult) is over 39.

The only time allo is slower is at 100% when its speed falls off and when kentro is at peak speed. And that’s more of an issue with prime speed buffs and old speed nerfs than anything else. Because if you nerf kentro’s speed any more, it’s now slower than diablos (who absolutely destroy it). And you can’t buff allo’s speed else it will then destroy stuff like ceras and tenos.

[cobalt dagger]

I think the reason why your suggestion has so many x is actually just the part about nerfing kentro speed. The reason why people don't want it nerfed is because currently rex can catch up to/outrun kentro, and also pin it.

Which it also does to allo and on occasion cera and teno if the rex is young, and does to omni if the rex is younger, and does to almost all of them if they're too old...

[torn egret]

@cobalt dagger
The sore mouth debuff is equivalent to eating a dorito vertical lol
Personally, I think there has to be more deterrent to trying to just crush a kentro as a Rex, but maybe if a Rex shoves it over (at the cost of some retaliation damage) then they can kill a kentro with minimal backlash.

Love the general idea. Kentro has a lot of potential to just be a pain to go after if you’re too big. But balancing it so it can’t outrun everything and kill everything else is hard.
It’s got such a cool kit that is just underwhelming with the current “meta” roster. It should absolutely have more reflect damage

[slim otter]

#balance-feedback message what do people think of this? Right now on evrima, you start to hear a carno maybe 5 seconds before he grabs you, which isn't really fair when they can run across the entire view distance quite quickly. Carno isn't intended to be an ambush predator like Rex, it should have loud footsteps when it's running.

[ashen idol]

does the ptera attack cause bleeding?

[torn egret]

Nope

[ashen idol]

alright

[obsidian yacht]

No, but deer do

[jovial apex]

balance out the pin on allo its to op an fix bucking system please

[dusky surge]

im not sure what that has to do with the question lmao

[slim dragon]

Deer can bleed you out.
They can and they want to bleed you out.
Deer will bleed you out.

You better start running now.

[vale brook]

i think it is a slight jab at the fact deer hooves cause bleed but pteranodon beak dont

which to be fair, is kind of odd

i wonder how it would go allowing it to cause bleed w/ ground attacks on animals under a certain weight

[obsidian yacht]

PSA

[rocky coral]

@cobalt dagger I think just making Kentro un-crushable/prinnable by Rex in Kentro's defensive stance would be better and then make Rex take significant damage and bleed if Rex uses crush/pins Kentro in it's normal state meaning that it would be a risk to pin Kentro at any point and pinning multiple Kentro's in a row would be a no no. But if Rex headbutts the Kentro to knock it over first then it could pin/crush.

[cobalt dagger]

We could do the mega damage AND a long term debuff. Any damage or bleed that isn't lethal will just get healed but a long term debuff could punish him for longer.

[rocky coral]

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea I just think it's more unlikely to happen adding new mechanics/debuffs but maybe. It would be cool if Kentro was like a deterrent for Rex pinning/pinning in general, like quite a few unofficials allow for herbi mixpacking to an extent which makes sense to me and of course official people do whatever they want so Kentro being some sort of deterrent against pinning and making other herbis want to adopt Kentros is kind of a cool mechanic. More mutualism and opportunism in this game would make the echosystem more interesting.

[glacial vale]

I think this is perfect but i would like to slow down basicly prime growth rate after that or ticks in 50 insted of 100.

[cobalt dagger]

@glacial vale Increasing rex's speed to 43 for any amount of time is a genuine buff.

[glacial vale]

Yes but it needs to catch stuff which is why i think 5 seconds is good but i'd be willing to go fown to 2-3 for a lil bit more speed but the stam cost would have to be insane

I will say i give sugestions on rex that i think would make it funner for me

[cobalt dagger]

Rex needs to catch stuff, and stuff needs to LIVE.

If the stuff starts running it deserves to live.

[glacial vale]

That why i said 5 seconds it need to ambush not this stuff it had right now running at 40km for 15 seconds on rex is mental

[cobalt dagger]

Running away is the only counterplay things have to rex if they are small, you shouldn't take that way from them. Sometimes players are just unaware or they are nesting and sitting on eggs, there are ways to catch stuff before it begins running.

But if it begins running because it saw the rex, it should be permitted to live.

[glacial vale]

I'm just saying on officala i've had troubling finding people i can fight so it has the 35km thing to try and keep up but most of the roostee is fastee but for ambush is to catch stuff it can't just be a big that that NEEDS to pin stuff to win

[cobalt dagger]

If the rex fails his hunt, he might starve, or he might not. There are boar and deer and other players and other tries, often times he can just be a pursuit predator and track the player's footsteps and never leave them alone if he fails the ambush. A failed ambush isn't the immediate end.

But a sucessful pin is the immediate end to whatever is pinned.

[glacial vale]

At prime elder deer gives 1.5 i think which isn't enough rex needs somthing to not just let mid tiers run even if it catches them off gaurd

[cobalt dagger]

Rex is an apex, along with stego and trike. The smaller things are faster than it for a reason, if you wanna catch them and not have them run away you ought to play carno.

AKA play something fast, rather than taking one of the strongest things and making it faster.

The trade off is that if you are fast you are weak and must work hard for the fight, then meanwhile if you're strong like trike you don't get to choose the fight, or how many, or when.

[cobalt dagger]

What it needs is to go hunt other apexes. But no one plays them because they die too easily to rex. For example: If everyone played herra, Rex would die. Should we let rex climb to get herra? No. Instead, give people reasons to play rex's prey. Give people reasons to play diablo, trike, stego.

[glacial vale]

I think that it should keep pin but on rex diffrent for other stuff it should have 15 seconds for a damge pin which will deal a big amout of damge at the end but if it releases before that it will bone break

[cobalt dagger]

I mean. He can facetank pretty much everything. So bone break might as well be a pin still. Most things don't survive 15 seconds of that pin though.

[glacial vale]

Sorry but trike hit harder and if it gets a wall behind it you can't win even if you are behind it can thrash you and 3 tap you

[glacial vale]

I know this will reward stego and maybe diaovblo for surviving and give them another chance

[cobalt dagger]

Get a group, or find a younger trike. Not all trikes are adults. But, good rexes and good trikes of same skill, rexes usually win. So it's also a skill thing. Trike kinda gets wrecked by trike. STEGO is the real rex killer.

[glacial vale]

2 words bush growing

[cobalt dagger]

Only stego and trike will get another chance from this.

[cobalt dagger]

Trike sits noisy, people find them that way. Also they gotta drink eventually, live like a land deino and watch some water.

[glacial vale]

But also if you need another apex go win is that not the whole reason for balancing?

[glacial vale]

I've never seen a non full grown trike as a rex ngl

Rex food drain is kinda bad but you run into nothing on officals

[cobalt dagger]

No, because if A is faster than B, when A finds a group of B, it's not forced to die; it is able to run away. But when B finds a group of A, it looses it's permission to live, it is unable to flee and unable to fight out numbered.

Unless you make B able to fight groups of A.

Slower things should be balanced to where they can survive being out numbered because they will be out numbered.

That being said... Rex can still solo trike and also outrun it.

Stego it can solo but stego has a better chance of killing rex.

[glacial vale]

I've honestly seen more trike win in rex vs trike even after bone break

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah no one wants to play as something rexes can catch and now that there's pin everywhere they're more quiet and secretive than ever because no growth stage is safe and no one wants to die.

Like. That's it. Right there. They don't wanna die and if you find them then that's it, game over because most of them can't outrun rex right now, they get trotted down and tracked and out-stammed if they do run fast enough. Omni for example with it's bad trot compared to rex's.

[glacial vale]

Stego needs a rework it obliterates small thing but against rex it dies first but bleeds out rex and the rex it forced to end the interaction after 3 hits wethee by suiciding the stego or by just leg breaking

[cobalt dagger]

They are playing fast things specifically to make themselves inaccessible to Rex. If you make them accessible to Rex then they'll probably all play PT or Herra or something. People are desperate to get away from the pins and I don't blame 'em.

And if everyone plays herra, deino, ect rex will starve anyway.

[glacial vale]

Make rex grow like trike give a 2 ton growth spurt after being kicked out of sanc but slow the rest of it's growth so you don't just see prime and baby rexes

[cobalt dagger]

I agree that stego still dies to rex and that it needs improvement. But stegos preform better against rexes than trikes in high-skill situations. Low skill where they just facetank each other then yes Trike wins.

[cobalt dagger]

That doesn't really fix the problem. The problem is that people are playing things Rex can't catch because it's too oppressive, and then rexes starve or get bored or make feedback asking to be able to catch things they shouldn't be able to catch.

[glacial vale]

Rex will have a 5 second window tho think about how long it took to get there and now even if it's behind it if it's not drinking/eating or resting it just starves

[glacial vale]

Trike wins but trike has one of the easist combos to make rex run sprint stun thrash and rex has to leave unlike rex who don't know if it can find it's next thing

[cobalt dagger]

It's a 5 second window of 'catching up' to prey he's not supposed to catch up to though. The only way Rex should be catching things like cera is if he crushed it before it began running.

Keep in mind, the failed hunt is the possibility of death for rex but it's the CERTAINTY of death for that cera if he's caught!

Being fair to creatures means letting them live via some method. Some live by fighting, some live by running, some will live by both. But most things will survive rex by running, you shouldn't take that away from them. The whole reason why everyone is playing mid tiers is to try and get away from rex. If you make Rex able to catch up to them any more than he already does for even 5 seconds/improve his ability to hunt mid teirs more than it alreadyis, people will start playing herra, PT, and carno/dilo to be even faster and outrun the 43 speedboost with their 49 k/m carnos.

And then rexes will start asking for 49 k/m speedboosts...

[glacial vale]

That's the thing on rex it shouldn't be locked out of catching creatures it just needs a window if that cera is near a forest see the rex and rex sprinta cera sprints into forest and around a tree rex can't turn but it should be like it is now your countee play is to see it before it see you

[cobalt dagger]

It's not locked out of killing them, it's just locked out of catching them if they see it, say 'oh that's a rex' and run.

If it ambushes them, the same as stegos and trikes did in the past sometimes run up and randomly one shot something that wasn't paying attention - Then the rex will get the kill. But it's not balanced to give Rex such incredible killing potential - Such incredible killing permission - over every other creature. If you make it so that rex has more control over your death than you do, people will switch species to something that CAN live.

This is exactly why you don't see as many stegos and trikes compared to midtiers. They are playing midtiers specifically so they can get away from rex. If you ruin that about mid tiers they'll just find some other creature to ignore Rex with.

[glacial vale]

So i think the part is your already about 10 hours deep you should have some rewarda but it cost stam the same way dilo out stams carno but carno is faster but for cera it shouldn't just be a all arounder it's stam is insane if the rex does use it's speed boost it might get closer but it can't keep track

[cobalt dagger]

Instead, if we balance the game so that rex isn't so oppressive, people will actually wanna play some of Rex's prey if they have some real good chance to live and have fun on it. Then there will be less midtiers running away from you.

[glacial vale]

I'ma be honest all i see is dilos and apexes i see more ovee powered stuff than mid tieres cause rex stam rn is insane and the 15 seconds speed boost is mental

[cobalt dagger]

If Trike is 10 hours deep, does trike get to outrun and kill stuff?

The reward is being that massive and that powerful and the ability to outrun and 1 v 1 other apexes, along with a bone break, and a speedy juvi stage. It's WAY harder for a pack of ceras to kill a rex than a trike because of his head swing, his pin, his bone break, there's LOTS of reward on rex.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah dilos are a good pick, OP venom and the speed to run away from rexes with.

[glacial vale]

It does get the 1shot most things with trash + early growth buff

[cobalt dagger]

Yes, so both trike and rex can 1 shot things, and that's the reward. But don't let them OUTRUN things. Even for 5 seconds. It's 5 seconds of 'catching up to something it shouldn't catch up to.' Trike and Rex should be forces to be reckoned with, they should be something a cera fears, but they shouldn't be catching up to the cera when he tries to run away.

[glacial vale]

Cera can just chose to leave after making it throw up and boom 0 rewars for rex 0 reward for cera but now the rex will starve unless the rex is half decent unlike most of the players i see

[glacial vale]

It's 15 rn btw

And for 7% of it's life unlikd trike which can still 3shot rex at 75% till 100

[cobalt dagger]

Just use your headswing, the cera has to come very far into your attack range to bite your ankles. But yeah cera throw up is annoying. To be honest though I think a cera would usually die and it can't make the rex throw up in 1 bite because rex is too big, so instead the cera would get 1 bite in and the rex would pin, or headswing into a knockdown and then a pin. So I think cera would just die. No smart cera would challenge a rex, but some cera packs hunt trike.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah but that attack is so slow and trike can't move while doing it. Skilled players don't sit there and face tank each other they run around, dodge and weave.

[glacial vale]

I've seen horrors of rex players i have seen one bone break a trike thing stand begind it hitting it not relisijg trike has some op hitboxes trike just left clicked to death

Mb for bad grammer on my phone rn

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah, because he just face tanked a trike. ... Why would face tanking the animal who's who identity, and body shape screams 'I FIGHT HEAD ON!!!!!!!" Why face tank an animal with giant front horns and a giant shield for a face?

[glacial vale]

He was behind it

[cobalt dagger]

Ah I see. Yeah, the hitbox thing. I do agree, trike's thrash hitbox shouldn't be at it's butt.

It's pulled back on diablo and trike so that it's less on the front to make it harder for them to chase and hit on the go.

It was supposed to help with latency or something.

But the downside of that means the hitbox is in trike's butt now. I think it should just be pushed forward more, let the tips of the horns be dangerous like they should be and move the hitbox out of trike's butt.

[glacial vale]

Yeah my friend died the same way to one and i got him to groe some on hordtest i'm like 500 600 hours in i've played 0 hordtest we get reset like 4-5 hours and i can't get him on rex anymore so i've been getting battered by mixpackers and over packers

[glacial vale]

Agrees but why does rex not stun trike but trike stun rex with there stun abilities

[cobalt dagger]

Play some troodon, be a sanctuary menace

[glacial vale]

I tryed spawned eastern starved never doing that again

I love carno but last time i got hunted by 8 dilos on hordtest and couldn't outstam

[cobalt dagger]

Oh rex can stun; crush stuns from all angles and headswing/headbutt stuns. Not all trike moves stun, I think only running attacks and maybe thrash. The trike has to be running or actively in a spar with you to run you and the spar favors rex for mysterious reasons.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah you gotta roll the dice a few times until you spawn somewhere with food.

[glacial vale]

Idk why spar favors rex j think because bigger but idk i think rex need a damge nerf to keep the pin but maybe aggiltt buff but nerf the ambush

[cobalt dagger]

I think real life trike actually weighed more on average than real life rex.

But, they are not going for perfect prehistoric replicas. Real life spino was not a match for real life rex but the isle's spino is going to be a scary massive mutant mega spino with genetic modification that will make it more than a match for the isle's rex.

[glacial vale]

We need somthing to balance dieno and rex dieno because fish broken and is the only threat in the water and rex so it can't just only fight other apexes

[cobalt dagger]

However, while I admire that they are building their own lore and I kinda like the isle's lore, I do not like the balance. 8( I don't think trike should have a disadvantage in the spar, because trike cannot outrun rex and fighting head on is it's only option and since slower things WILL get out numbered, trike should at least get the edge on the spar. I expect rex to win by going and biting trike's butt, not by face tanking.

[glacial vale]

Trike outstams rex and tactile is a thing

[cobalt dagger]

I am not sure how spino will work but I heard that there might be migration zones for fish eaters. Like, their own zone and fish are plentiful there. I love the idea because fish in real life are plentiful too.

[glacial vale]

Even if it bites the butt it still might be thrashes lol

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah they can fix that by moving the hitbox forward though.

[glacial vale]

Pleass get dieno out of the gutter having to canniblise every 3 seconds

[glacial vale]

But they won't😭

[cobalt dagger]

They might though, they've made changes people thought they wouldn't make before.

[glacial vale]

There love baby is trike ngl

[cobalt dagger]

I've noticed, it feels like given enough time they eventually get stuff in a balanced way, but it takes them a while because they want it their way and not the faster way we want it sometimes.

[glacial vale]

Rex is the youngest child tho

[glacial vale]

If there's somthing that is op it needs to be a hotfix

[cobalt dagger]

I agree. They sometimes hotfix things but not always. If they didn't intend it, like when single omniraptors could pin full grown deinos, then they do get around to hotfixing it. But when they planned, developed and worked on something, they are slow to changeit.

And I can't blame them, because sometimes changes need some time to 'set.' As people find out how to best exploit them.

Sometimes there are ways to exploit something people haven't discovered yet, or some way to utilize a creature to kill others.

Sometimes it's best to get the full picture before making a change.

But part of giving them that picture is putting feedback in because they read that stuff (even if they don't normally reply) and putting checks and X's on things you have feelings about.

[glacial vale]

I just belive rex need to either be tanker and hit harder but be slow or faster hit less harder and keep it's pin just so it ain't like it is rn where is can kill fullgrown allos with ambush that last 15 seconds

[cobalt dagger]

I think the rex should be the tanker. Acro, giga, and more large therapods are coming some day, who could be the faster ones.

[glacial vale]

I gtg to dinner so peace

[cobalt dagger]

Enjoy your dinner, thank you for the talk

[glacial vale]

Thank you it was amazing and wonderful talk glhf

[rocky coral]

@cobalt dagger Depends on what stage of sub Rex, sub Rex is pretty broad in it's size and speed as it grows through it. When Rex is roughly around the same weight as a dino it's a pretty balanced fight that could go either way but yeah increases speed would be bad.

[slim dragon]

@shut gull No it wouldn't be a good idea. One of the main reason the elder system exists is exactly to prevent that from happening, to keep players in the growth loop instead of them staying forever as super-powered dinos

[cobalt dagger]

Did they fix crush doing adult damage on all ages of rex?

Same-sized rexes perma pin omnis and dilos to death and I've been outran as a 67% teno by rexes big enough to perma pin me but not adults

I didn't try to fight them, I tried to run.

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah they did in the hordetest, a 1t rex does ~30dps in a pin

[cobalt dagger]

Thank goodness then

Well that explains why my teno took longer to die when it was pinned. It still doesn't fix that a rex that pinned me and also out turned me also outran me.

[bitter iris]

Yea honestly just nerfing Rex ambush speed would be fine too.

Like when I see a Rex in an area I try to leave because I will likely get caught at some point but then the new area I’m in just has another Rex. My main issue is how easy it is for Rex to grow. Nerfing juvi Rex speed, diet, lowering ai and hunger/thirst timers while buffing player count to around 200

[keen plover]

Imo, the duration is more of a problem. If it was a short, ambush only tool, I think it wouldn't feel as bad.

[bitter iris]

I ment to say duration lol 🫤

[keen plover]

🤝

[viscid mica]

Everyone hating on genuinely comprehensive feedback cuz how dare you try and make the new playable not op when allo and Rex are. <me rn

[cobalt dagger]

I think it's because kentro can't outrun allo, cera or rex. If it was faster I would agree with the changes though.

[viscid mica]

Can’t out run but can certainly out DPS now

I don’t think people encounter enough competent kentros to realize how dominant they are after the weight change

The only down side to kentro is its defensive stance is bunz and it’s got 0 bleed res

But it put DPSs everything short of a Rex

A Rex that can full pin it mind you

I’m not sure how well a smaller sub would fair

Might have to play Rex

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah and it needs that because it can get out numbered. It's like, trike is 'OP' but it's too slow to force that damage or stats on anyone so it's not the same as rex.

[viscid mica]

Not even considering it has near instant acceleration and can knock things considerably larger than it down let alone the atk speed of its tail attack that 3 shots cera and 4/5 shots allos

Mind you, you can get 3 hits off of a single knock down not including the initial hit

Objectively I’d say kentro is more of a threat by a mile to a cera or allo than dibble is

[cobalt dagger]

That's why I didn't put an X on your suggestion, I'm not sure. But, Kentro is a little new. I think things should marinate a little first.

If they made kentro fast enough to escape rex somehow though I would 100% agree with nerfing it because it would actually be able to catch allos and ceras at that rate.

[viscid mica]

Tbh it’s not a kentro problem that’s a Rex problem as Rex is by far too fast for its size

[cobalt dagger]

This is true, deeply true.

[viscid mica]

This is why I hate balancing around current Rex as we are gonna have so many excessively strong playables by the time it finally gets nerfed it’s gonna be hell

[cobalt dagger]

I keep running into people who want rex to be fast because they can't stand everything not wanting to engage with them and just running away. I wish they'd just play something faster, apexes shouldn't be able to catch all things.

[viscid mica]

Or learn how to be stealthy instead of sleeping on murder sprint to engage everything

[cobalt dagger]

Well, it's not that I'm balancing it around rex, I'm balancing in on whether or not it can escape cera packs. 3 shot a cera is OK if you are forced to fight 4-5 of them when they roll up.

[keen plover]

I mean this was a problem before rex lol

[viscid mica]

True enough

ATM there are a good few playables that are way too strong but are just so violently over shadowed by Rex people don’t even realize it

[cobalt dagger]

Maia is a good example of this.

[viscid mica]

Maia, cera and carno are the top imo

And than there are the ones that are too weak like dibble and teno

[cobalt dagger]

Not dilo? I agree carno is a bit crazy

[viscid mica]

Only thing wrong with current dilo is the vision bug

Fix that and dilos are 100x easier to fight

[cobalt dagger]

Oh I thought it was a feature.

I think dilo should get clones on bite, but have much better agility and turning.

[keen plover]

Nah, nothing is right about the hallucinations.

[viscid mica]

I’d be ok with this as well

[cobalt dagger]

Dilo is SO BAD without venom because it's agility and turning is so bad.

[viscid mica]

Physical imbodiment of DOT that you can technically kill or evade

[cobalt dagger]

If we make dilo 'less bad' without venom then we can safely nerf the venom a little by making clones earned through bites.

[viscid mica]

I’d rather that than just legacy bleed

[viscid mica]

Agreed

I don’t oppose changing it as a whole but dilo cannot currently function without venom

[cobalt dagger]

Well they are not able to attack clones very well at all right now but you can still glitch them out by standing on a rock (did it as kentro) so the clones are still a little sad.

I do agree that dilo venom should deal damage and that the clones should be a representation of that damage. Now if I had a DOT it would do a set amount of damage, so I think it's the unpredictable nature of clones that are bad- As in, unpredictable in terms of how many will appear. If we make clones earned on bite, then each clone is just an extra bit of damage on the dilo's biteforce that just so happens to come later in the form of a freaky clone.

[keen plover]

Some creatures struggle to evade it and this also doesn't stop them spawning and immediately attacking you when you do try to flee. I've been clipped by the clones on the HT as they appeared when i was fleeing.

[viscid mica]

I’m not saying it’s perfect I’m just saying clones are needed for dilo as a whole to function in any capacity

[cobalt dagger]

And now I have to go to work... I'll see you guys later and reply more later if relevant.

[viscid mica]

I’m more than open to adjustments to dilos kit after the vision bug is fixed and we get a better feel for it

[viscid mica]

Kk let me read yours

[viscid mica]

They would need to fundamentally change how dilos current movement scheme is to make that feasible though as dilo is insanely bad agility

[cobalt dagger]

^

[rocky coral]

@viscid mica I like Cera the way it is, I think it's strong but not OP.

[viscid mica]

With the bile changes it can spam bile so easily, has damage to match even the biggest Dino’s can tank hits from things that should cc it because it’s stability is through the roof. It’s not abhorrent or anything but it’s just across the board significantly better than everything else it’s size range

[rocky coral]

It's definitely strong no doubt about it but I think nerfing it in any way would just decimate it

[viscid mica]

Fighting 3 prime ceras as 2 relatively young dibble subs 1.7-2t range with a huge terrain advantage as both sides and backs where unreachable they simply tanked us like it didn’t matter we couldn’t cc them due to stability bonus from charge bite they out damaged us easily even thought most hits went to head that takes reduced damage and they made us vomit 3 times EACH EACH that by all accounts in my books is far too strong

[viscid mica]

Not at all ceras were plenty strong before I think the main issue with current cera is its bleed Res, stability bonus and bile are just way too good

They are effectively immune to bleed to such a degree when I play cera I pretty much ignore it, can tank most cc in the game simply by holding rmb down and can now with the recent bile change chain so many feee hits from vomit it’s simply obnoxious

[rocky coral]

3 Ceras is a combined weight of 5.8 tons vs your roughly 4 tons, that's 2 tons more weight between them. If it was a 2v2 the outcome may be different and a lot closer.

[viscid mica]

Basing everything off weight alone is not good for game health especially when you consider the significant terrain advantage I mentioned

[rocky coral]

If you look at their skin they have really rough looking armored skin almost like a Croc, they look resistant to bleed.

[viscid mica]

There’s being resistant and there’s being immune, cera is effectively immune

I don’t mind have a higher than most bleed res but it’s like I think 60% OFF SPAWN bleed res which nothing else has except maybe deino but even than I’ve gotten closer to bleeding out on deino than I’ve ever have on anything else

[rocky coral]

I mean dying in a 3v2 situation where you are a young dibble and the Ceras are prime seems fine to me, they obviously out played you

[viscid mica]

Really didn’t they just face tanked us

[rocky coral]

Maybe more of an issue with Dibble not Cera

[viscid mica]

Considering we were pretty large, had a massive terrain advantage, and unlike them were full health going into the fight

[rocky coral]

I mean if you where 1.7-2 tons then your around the same weight as a prime Cera

[viscid mica]

No the only thing dibble got changed was its mobility which was a none factor in this fight and previously two dibbles of that size could more than considerably defend themselves from only 3 that’s pretty bad

[rocky coral]

I think it's a problem with Dibble not Cera, Dibble gets shredded even by Allos

And bleed out easy by Allos

[viscid mica]

Allos bite speed is way too fast so it simply put dps slow hits from dibble

[viscid mica]

❌ dibbles are one of the better bleed survivors

[rocky coral]

Their bleed res is not great

Allo can bleed a dibble out very quickly

[viscid mica]

They’re bleed res is the closest to cerato for land animals just want to point that out that that’s just how strong ceras bleed res is

[rocky coral]

Where is the stats on that?

[viscid mica]

Pulled from testing servers you’d have to ask a stat goblins for exact values

[rocky coral]

Because Dibble bleed out to Allo quick

I've experienced it many times

[viscid mica]

I’m not saying they don’t or can’t I’m saying nothing else has comparable bleed res to cera and dibble is the closest to having that

Beyond deino and even deinos bleed res is less than ceras

[rocky coral]

I was just saying that Dibble dies to Allo easily

[viscid mica]

Oh absolutely

Allos bite speed is unholy

[rocky coral]

Allo can facetank Dibble with DPS, even Prime Maia can be face tanked by Prime Allo with pure DPS

[viscid mica]

Yeah and it’s only because of its bite speed having no cap

You should see the dudes who run macros for allo (it’s a cheat btw) they can drop anything in seconds

[rocky coral]

Litterally just standing there like a donut spamming bites, you barely even have to move, just tank the hits and keep biting

[rocky coral]

I've seen it yeah

[viscid mica]

I miss the days when dibble felt like a good hunt for cera now in days it’s so easy I barely have to try against most players

[rocky coral]

And i've done it as an Allo not going to lie (facetank spam bite like a donut not cheats)

[rocky coral]

Yeah I wouldn't mind Dibble getting some small buffs

[viscid mica]

Honestly I feather bite too like a bit if the situation calls for it (two fingers go brrr)

[viscid mica]

It’s mobility changes should be reverted to start with

Maybe make its charge use hits actually worth using as they are kinda bunz would I could just keep spamming flip

[rocky coral]

I've also been destroyed as a peak prime Maia by an Allo just sat there tanking back kicks

[viscid mica]

Not particularly enjoyable I agree

[rocky coral]

I was actually shocked the first time it happened lmao XD

[viscid mica]

Understandable you don’t really expect something that big to bite so fast

But anyhow main point is while I enjoy cera as much as the next there’s a point when a player has to stop at acknowledge the fact that they’re playing something so incredibly easy to play that it’s their default go to when they don’t wanna try yet seems to be one of their most dominant creature

[rocky coral]

Honestly I don't really even know what I would do to balance Dibble out. I'd have to think about it. When I play as Dibble though i still tend to dominate decently.

[rocky coral]

I play mainly Nerf unofficial and Ceras don't seem to dominant, although i have gone on a right spree with it myself.

[viscid mica]

It’s not horrible per say but match ups it should do decently at its losing a lot more to

Give it back its speed and drift and maybe make the charge point hits worth something and than let’s look at what it’s facing and why it’s losing ie allo? Simple allo bites so fast no matter how much damage you do unless the allos are god awful you die

[viscid mica]

I play petite or officials and while I don’t think petite players are gods by any means I think they have a significantly more skilled community than most

I’ve played Triassic Dino den and all the sorts and just find on average they are better

[rocky coral]

Yup and that's one of the reasons I don't agree with a nerf because it's just gonna get even more destroyed by Allo

[viscid mica]

Though I will say Boschs omni community is something to behold

[viscid mica]

Ceras faster than allo has double its stam (unironically double) and even than can out DPS with charge bites and cycle charging

I got a clip all be it one of my worse fights against a allo

[rocky coral]

Nerf has some really great players, especially EU Nerf and plus with Nerf you can pause your dino growth after 75%+ so you come across a lot of peak prime dinos which makes it harder.

[viscid mica]

See I’m not a fan of that as it causes for a lot of fights that you wouldn’t see AND THATS NOT EVEN MENTIONING nerfs player groups…. I think we can both agree that’s a whole other monster

[rocky coral]

Eleborate please?

[viscid mica]

Nerf feels more like a free admin grow PvP server than anything else from my experience thus making it not too particularly enjoyable as I far prefer the more base survival experience

[viscid mica]

Go look at their group limits for stuff they got MASSIVE group limits

Also the “fights you wouldn’t see” is meant towards normal growth being staggered and fights not being these “perfect grow” size fights

[rocky coral]

what do you mean free admin grows? I would say nerf is just as a hard a petits to grow

[rocky coral]

I mean you see variety all the time

[pseudo ember]

needs to be like 30% slower

they went overboard with the maia buffs

[rocky coral]

Group limits seem pretty standard to me

[viscid mica]

I mean the majority of the people you see are peak primes and everyone else is hiding in the corner of the map waiting to hit prime

It’s no were near as hard simply due to everyone hiding in corners of the map till prime, ai, far more open Dino selection and as I said imo on average worse players not that they’re aren’t good ones just from my few play through I didn’t feel nearly as threatened by certain Dino groups as I normally do

[viscid mica]

How many dilos can be in a group?

[rocky coral]

Hypsilophodon______________12
Dryosaurus_________________12
Pachycephalosaurus__________8
Tenontosaurus_______________6
Diabloceratops______________4
Maiasaura___________________4
Stegosaurus_________________3
Triceratops_________________3

Pteranodon_____________10
Troodon_______________10
Omniraptor_____________8
Herrerasaurus__________8
Dilophosaurus__________5
Allosaurus_____________3
Carnotaurus____________4
Ceratosaurus___________4
Deinosuchus____________2
Tyrannosaurus Rex______2

seems pretty standard i would even say a little low for some dinos

[shut gull]

Fair enough, then again I'm curious on how often do people actually reach the 3rd entoombment, what I have in mind to perhaps introduce additional requirements, forcing people into something challenging to actually achieve it

[viscid mica]

Maybe I’m thinking a different server

[rocky coral]

I wouldn't say the majority are peak prime

petits has body drops, any server with body drops is automatically easier

[slim dragon]

But why achieve it at all
There is a system in place literally to prevent that from happening

[viscid mica]

From my experience I rarely encountered anyone who wasn’t large sub or bigger the few I did were in sanc, hiding and I happened upon them when they went out to eat or in large groups growing them

[viscid mica]

Ngl I’ve seen body drops a grand total of twice

And that was only when a deino was around

[rocky coral]

last time i played i was shocked at just how many there are, not as bad as dino den (dino den is just horrendous) but still super easy to grow on petits

[viscid mica]

Still harder than nerf if you do what everyone else does on it

Comparing favourite servers is silly anyways as the communities are different

[rocky coral]

at first i was walking around thinking 'whos killed all these dinos' 'why so many bodies' but turns out it was just body drops

[viscid mica]

When was the last time you played?

[rocky coral]

To me petits is too easy

[rocky coral]

last month

[viscid mica]

Cuz I’ve genuinely never seen body drops the only areas with hordes of bodies is sanc and that’s cuz juvi on juvi violence is rampant

[viscid mica]

Bro when and how were you a deino!? Share with the class tf the amount of times I’ve been begging for a body drop and dam near starved until I found something to kill is insane

[rocky coral]

I also don't like the weird payed stuff on petites, unlocking dinos ect just goofy

[viscid mica]

Agreed but it’s better than 30573037429 Rex’s and allos walking around imo unfortunately

Keeps the playables you encounter respectfully diverse

[rocky coral]

You can have pop control without making it some sort of payed unlocks, nerf has a limit of like 15 Rexs, you see massive variety

[viscid mica]

The payed unlock is optional everything unlocks eventually and a lot of them will open Dino’s for others plus it doesn’t apply to apex’s

Petites limits are weight based not number so there could be a lot of something if everyone is small or very few if everyone is big

It’s nice cuz it’s a lot easier to keep track of Rex’s

[rocky coral]

I just find nerf the most competitive

[viscid mica]

As I said very PvP server esk which some enjoy I myself do not

I far prefer the natural survival gameplay

Having limits makes it feel more natural and alive

[rocky coral]

it has that too, to me nerf has everything to want in a server and thats why i play it

[viscid mica]

Fair enough!

To each their own

[rocky coral]

yup

[viscid mica]

Hope Noobz makes the transfer soon

I miss my og stomping grounds

Than again who knows if I’ll even like how they run things over here lol

Body down rules don’t work in envirma like they did in legacy

Plus Dino’s mixing is way way harder to do fairly

[rocky coral]

Anyway i'm looking forward to Bary and Quetz

[viscid mica]

Trueeee bary willl be cool quetz how ever feels like a balancing nightmare

[rocky coral]

We will have to see when it comes out, seems like it will be decent damage and be able to dodge attacks pretty good by won't be amazing on health

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[rocky coral]

It's why Pt needs more work to get it into a state beyond just being a spectator. Give it it's own pvp niche.

[viscid mica]

Just double its weight and call it a day with its new move set coming it’ll be fine

[rocky coral]

Agreed but stam is a problem, sitting for 5 minutes to regen stam is uhh

[viscid mica]

It’s to prevent it from being used as a relentless tracker

[rocky coral]

I mean I don't really think that's that big of an issue, like maybe on officials where there's mixpacks, overpacks and cheaters but most unofficials have rules on scouting as a Pt

[viscid mica]

Yes but they can’t very well balance around unofficial can they?

[rocky coral]

True but I doubt it would be much of an issue still

[viscid mica]

You’d be surprised how bad it was back in spiro days when it had the crazy good Stam game

Every pt was basically a track hazard

[rocky coral]

maybe you're right but still, sitting to regen stam for 5 mins is super boring and just ruins the flow of gameplay

[viscid mica]

Unfortunately you can blame the no life mixpackers for that

[rocky coral]

that's why i don't play official (apart from hordetest) seeing trikes, stegos, rexs and allos together is so ugly

[viscid mica]

Indeed I do it cuz I’m not patient enough to try and snipe Rex on a unofficial

[rocky coral]

Who else thinks Quetz will be way heavier than it's speculative irl counterpart?

[bitter iris]

I think quetz should be 1 ton around

[rocky coral]

yeah I reckon it wont be far off of that

[gilded linden]

At what % should i get the cannibal mutation on a rex

[bitter iris]

Depends, if you get it at sub bigger Rexes will likely kill you while if you get it at prime then you won’t get the benefits of it through your growth. It depends of how confident you are at finding other food/avoiding Rexes. Someone else may have a better answer I don’t play Rex much

[mental roost]

Hot take: I think Rex having ambush was a massive mistake
We saw how bad it was in legacy and the Evrima Rex's ambush is far worse; sure it has a 1 minute cool down but its duration doesn't come into play that often and there's no way to tell when the Rex has it available either

[finite shadow]

Yea was to problematic to add on allo but rex is fine lol

[cobalt dagger]

I think cera is a bit overtuned but I agree it's not too crazy. I think a good way to put it is to look at creatures that should be in cera's tier (aka things with the same growth time) and see how cera's power compares to their's. That would be kentro, teno, and carno. Look at how each of these kill other things, look at what sizes of things they kill. Carno is obviously OP at killing little things but that's sorta his job, otherwise... Cera is probably the most powerful of the 4.

I think I agree that diablo needs help though; if we compare diablo to others of the same grow time (maia, allo) diablo pales by comparison. Maybe diablo and tenos just need buffs.

To be honest rex, cera, maia, carno, allo are all OP. I kinda want rex and maia and allo and more to stop turning things into fodder and I don't think buffing anyone will stop rex from pinning them so obviously balance is still needed. But basically maybe we just need to give a nerf to them to stop them from fodder'ing each other and then buff things like teno and diablo that are falling behind? But honestly bringing them all down to Teno/Diablo's levels would technically work too...

[cobalt dagger]

I said some stuff if you wanna read it.

[viscid mica]

[wicked swallow]

Bro nerf pin
Way to OP
Like I can’t escape it so if you get pinned you die

[cobalt dagger]

GUYS I put this in the isle discussion but no one is noticing it- I found out how to control the neon colors in hordetest!

Here it is:

First of all, if you don't put enough numbers in, certain layers will not be colored and will be default color.

Each 9 numbers controls the Red, Blue, Green of a color layer. If you only put 9 numbers, then the only layer that gets colored is the male display. (The rest of the dino will be default skin.) If you do 18 numbers, only the male display and the 'markings' layer will be colored. If you use 45 numbers, all layers will be colored.

Let's say you only color your male display and only use 9 numbers. The first 3 numbers will decide how much red is in it, the next 3 will decide how much blue, and the last three will decide how much green. Like a red-blue-green color wheel where you can change the number values.

If you use all 45 numbers though, or even a smaller amount, the game will color the underbelly and lower color boxes with the first numbers and then go one through the last numbers to color the male display. So, if you have more than 9 numbers, the look on the left at the color boxes. The ones on the bottom are the ones you are coloring with your first 9 numbers, and 2nd to bottom is what you're coloring with the next nine numbers. But ONLY if you use 45 numbers. If you use only, say, 18 numbers, then your first nine numbers will color the 'markings' and the next nine numbers will color the 'male display.'

In other words it will color the bottom layers first but how many layers it even bothers to color depends on how many numbers it has access to.

[rocky coral]

@tight cove Maia doesn't need a nerf to it's damage or healing rate, all it needs is a speed nerf it's perfect for what it is.

@viscid mica I agree with a lot of this post but not all of it. With a long post like this that has many suggestions you should put numbers on the suggestions so we can react with the corresponding ones we agree with. Just an idea but it lets you know what part people are agreeing with.

[viscid mica]

I won’t be as it’s meant to address the issue not balancing specifics

[rocky coral]

I disagree that all of what you said is an issue

[viscid mica]

Oh well

[viscid mica]

Like what?

[rocky coral]

You just said "oh well" bro, you obviously just want to put your take out there and that's it.

[viscid mica]

Ya I mean all of they are pretty well acknowledged by the community as not exactly in the most fair state

[rocky coral]

I just wonder whether you are actually sincere, if you aren't then fine.

[viscid mica]

Maia gained a massive cool down fix and a considerable amount of damage, cera is the best all around by a considerable margin

[rocky coral]

Anyway have a blessed day 👍

[viscid mica]

I mean scroll up in this chat alone and you’ll see people talking about them

[viscid mica]

Plus I specifically said I was addressing stigma not making Dino to Dino balancing recommendations

[tight cove]

What would u nerf its speed to? To me its speed makes it unique and fun so i wouldn’t touch that, imo before the dmg buffs Maia was still in a good spot, it could fight everything that it couldn’t just run away from perfectly fine, and a good Maia could fight a cera very well, the only difference is that Maia wouldn’t be able to fight mid tiers & above like allo, but now with the dmg buffs Maia can fight other mid tiers while also being able to run them down.

[bitter iris]

Honestly I’ve just gonna join in here and say all Maia needs is a cooldown between switch stances like 1-2 seconds so it can’t abuse it for speed+movement

[viscid mica]

The problem was just the damage buff it’s that they gave it better attack reactivity AND a significant damage buff

So it went from being hard to group fight to easy PLUS doing a lot more damage (average of 100 increase for most attacks)

[bitter iris]

And fix the glitch that allows it to attack cancel

[viscid mica]

Maias whole build is fine it just needs its damage reverted it’s already a lot better with the CD fix

[tight cove]

I agree

[bitter iris]

Ehh it’s damage is fine.

[viscid mica]

Not considering its speed

Maia needs to be a faster sub but weaker adult it’s fast, does a lot of cc and can almost 1 tap dilos

[bitter iris]

I would rather a slight speed nerf, and the other stuff I mentioned above

[viscid mica]

I think it’s double stop does about 500?

[viscid mica]

I don’t want to ruin its design just didn’t need the extra damage combined with the cd buff it got back in Rex ht

[bitter iris]

And is easy to dodge and can gets hits after

[tight cove]

I heavy disagree on this, that will just make Maia feel unnecessarily clunky and a bad to use while also at the same time removing Maias skill gap entirely, for example kentro rn has a HUGE 3 SECOND POWER SWING DELAY when you first try to activate it, that feels AWFUL, I pray that’s not intended.

[viscid mica]

Depends on how good of a Maia your against

[viscid mica]

???? What you on about? I ain’t seen that kentros attack speed is vilely fast the only cd is it getting its tail up?

Maia mains can currently obliterate everything short of a apex

If they are good

Maia rn is what teno used to be were the better ones are just invincible to none apex’s

[tight cove]

The only attack kentro has to keep mid tiers like allo at bay has a 3sec delay allowing tons of free hits 🤣

[bitter iris]

A Maia who uses those can only die to an allo facetank (which needs to be nerfed) it’s op and not the intended way of playing. He can either be fast but not that good at landing attacks or slow and can defend himself with strong attacks not both that is why he is op

[viscid mica]

I remember when the best tenos could 4v1 carnos

[viscid mica]

Ummmm 1 sec let me get you the clip

https://youtube.com/shorts/4w3tFRwtYG8?si=v8xTDw6l6Qd5Usot

Not sure what you mean 3s cooldown

[bitter iris]

Well if the Maia knows how to attack cancel then yea it will destroy you because of the attack cancel and speed+mobility not one or the other both

[viscid mica]

Ya I find very few “bad” Maias most people that play it sweat it or atleast that I’ve encountered so Maia with its current damage feels very oppressive

[tight cove]

I’m talking about when you first activate it, not when you’re already holding it and swinging unless they already fixed that already, that would be good.

[bitter iris]

That’s abusing a glitch I’m pretty sure, the same one stego has.

[viscid mica]

Oh ya

[viscid mica]

No it’s not a glitch anyone can do that by just spam clicking nothing special required

[bitter iris]

Hm alr

[bitter iris]

Again I don’t think that’s the damages fault it’s the Maia can active go against its stances debuffs and just have everything going for it. It would be like if kentros defense stance can have the damage of its power swing

[viscid mica]

Kentro is silently really strong it’s just slower and got no bleed res

[tight cove]

As a prime 100% old elder Maia me and a friend was able to kill 1 out of 2 of fresh adult Rex’s, the one I ended up killing must have weighed at least 8 tons because I couldn’t even stun him, keep in mind I wasn’t even peak prime 😭

[viscid mica]

Kentros can out dps allos while dibbles can’t its pretty sad

[viscid mica]

Tbf those Rex’s are bad

Rex shouldn’t be losing to Maia Maias more so oppressive to mid sized creatures and smaller due to it being the 3rd fastest land creature

[tight cove]

Idk what he could have done in that situation because I’m pretty sure I was out damaging him and he couldn’t fracture me at all since I was a 2nd gen prime Maia with osteo perk 😂

[viscid mica]

If he was 8 tons literally just using crush and follow up bites woulda easily out dps and broken you as I said bro was bad

It woulda half pinned you as that’s a considerable size difference

If he wasn’t half pinning than he was smaller than 8 tons more so sub 7 only abit bigger

[tight cove]

All Ik is that he wasn’t able to pin me, but he was def bigger than me because my stomps didn’t even stagger him, imma post the vid today 😂

Maybe he was 7

[viscid mica]

Ya I’d assume probably on the higher end of 6 or low end 7 if he couldn’t atleast half pin anything over 8 shoulda been atleast half pinning you as a early 10(early prime) would be able to full pin a prime Maia

[tight cove]

Idk why they didn’t fix allos bit speed yet it shouldt take so long to fix and most importantly idk why they would even release allo in that state with having such a fast bite so it can face tank stuff.

[tight cove]

Quick question, would a half pin fracture my legs you think?

[viscid mica]

atm it’s more about getting some of the popular stuff out to attract attention again refill their coffers I’d assume and than worry about that later ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[viscid mica]

Not on the first hit but diff within a few

[tight cove]

Thx

[tight cove]

Yeah unfortunately 💀

[viscid mica]

Plus if he crushed you from the side during the fight it does more fracture damage

[tight cove]

Really? Interesting

[viscid mica]

Known major Dino bugs rn are

-dilo vision
-troo^
-allo bite speed
-carno charge

To my knowledge

[tight cove]

What’s wrong with carnos charge rn?

[viscid mica]

Ya head on/back crushes will generally do more body or head while side hits prioritize legs

[viscid mica]

You can spam it and it builds in power even if your just standing still, walking or even while attacking with it

It hits almost as fast as allo bites

Does cc and full damage value

[bitter iris]

They should prioritize body ngl. Leg brakes are boring

[tight cove]

I don’t think that’s a bug, just a bad feature they put in that they need to change rip

[viscid mica]

Leg breaks are immediate fight Enders when fighting a Rex for everything except Stego

[viscid mica]

No it’s a bug as when they added manual rmb they weren’t expecting it to be able to be charged or spammed but they just haven’t added a cd

[bitter iris]

Yep. Also imagine a Rex ambushes you as an allo and breaks your body instead of your leg. You run and run as the massive Rex walks toward you and right when you are about to break line you sight you run out of stam and the Rex seals your fate.

Or head brake would leave to panic which can allow the Rex to catch up.

[viscid mica]

Ya honestly I wouldn’t mind that as it still gives you a chance but body fracture stam drain is no joke

[tight cove]

Oh ok, because yeah carno is crazy strong rn, carno just annihilates any small tier in its sight, as it should don’t get me wrong but the small tiers can even get close enough to bite it because the carno can just spam knock it down 🤣

[viscid mica]

The only reason dilos even stand a chance rn is cuz a single hit completely blinds you

But ya carnos op cuz of its spam attack allo same deal cerato isn’t per say particularly op in any one regard its just across the board BETTER by a significant margin than everything and with the bile changes it just got way stronger

[tight cove]

Yeah but even still, a single carno can take on 2-3 dilos even with your screen being pitch blk 😂

[viscid mica]

I’m also convinced kentro is way too strong but ignored cuz it’s slower than Rex and it’s bleed resistant is a joke

[tight cove]

There was recent bile changes????

You’re talking about the old ones months ago right?

[viscid mica]

Ahhhh you didn’t know? Allow me to explain

Bile TAKES YEARS TO GET OFF IS EASIER TO PROC AND SPAM AND REQUIRES SIGNIFICANTLY LESS TO MAKE YOU VOMIT

In a fight as 1.7-2T dibbles with a significant terrain advantage against 3 prime ceras (2full 1 abit younger) they not only were able to face tank us effectively they made EACH of the 2 of us vomit 3 times.. 4 actually now that I think about it cuz my fiancé said she vomited again after I died

You effectively can’t wait bile out anymore you have to salt lick

This was made with kentro ht

So ya cerato are ALITTLE too strong

[tight cove]

Oh ok about this change it sucks, yet another cera buff making it cera rex 🤣🤣🤣

[viscid mica]

Naturally 60% bleed res, high CC, high damage, bile is significantly stronger… need I say more?

[viscid mica]

[tight cove]

If allo didn’t have a machine gun bite rate cera would be just objectively better than allo period, cera is cracked rn

[viscid mica]

Legit never acknowledge my bleed as cera I’ve found adult stegos taken 2 hits never sat and still didn’t bleed out while continuing to sprint and fight

[viscid mica]

Dunno about you but cera is objectively better I never lose to solo allos I genuinely don’t see how people struggle with them

When I’m a full prime I just run hit charge bite run past it start charging my next turn hit repeat

[tight cove]

Yeah pretty much gg cera is so good

I’m talking about like regular adult vs adult allo though

I haven’t played cera in a min but I def wanna try just starving a allo out, should be funny 😂

[viscid mica]

Let me find the clip

The video isn’t saving it broke

[tight cove]

Oof

[viscid mica]

All it is is me using that strategy on a allo trade hit but as cera charge does significantly more damage than allo can do you win the trade

[tight cove]

But yeah the only really bad matchup cera has rn that Ik of is against Maia so u should be around water when u see them

[viscid mica]

Even than that’s only 1v1

Maia like dibble should be something that takes a team effort to take down yet the moment your a duo nothing not even younger rexs are off the table

[tight cove]

Yeah, the only problem is that if a Maia doesn’t wanna fight, nothing u can do 😂

[viscid mica]

Speed decides everything in the isle after all the power to pick who and what you fight is something to behold and it’s why Rex’s murder sprint has devastated the balancing scheme so badly

[tight cove]

This the truth 😭

[viscid mica]

That’s why my last feedback wasn’t really about stats or specific Dino’s it was all about the stigma

How easily every dismissed my kentro feedback and a lot of the responses I got were “well because it’s so slow” or “Rex does exe” or “it’s too slow”

[rocky coral]

Change it to around 40kph give or take or make it so it's running damage is a lot lower so it's mainly just for knocking stuff out the way when trying to run. I like the fact that Maia can fight mid tiers after all it does get to 5.4 tons at peak prime. Prime Allo is still more than capable of taking on Maia in it's currently state even solo.

And good prime Ceras are more than capable of taking down prime Maia since it's quadrupedal stance attacks are very easy to bait.

[tight cove]

Maias shove doesn’t do a lot of dmg and to me 40 speed is way to slow for it, it would get slaughtered 💀

[bitter iris]

@spice mantle Maybe you shouldnt leak how to use the bug to the public

[spice mantle]

the stego bug?? or the trike one

[bitter iris]

Either just don’t say how to do them so less people use em

[spice mantle]

uhmm yes, sorry

should I delete it?

[bitter iris]

I would just edit that part out

But it may get deleted either way cause it’s a “bug”

Alr thanks

[spice mantle]

Thanks to you, I hadn't thought of it that way

[wise obsidian]

@spice mantle Why dont you just make a bug report instead of putting it in there

If it's a bug that's what the bug report form is for

If QA already knows then well.. not much use in reminding them i think

[spice mantle]

yes, I do it today

[thorn mountain]

well, you should also in a bug report say how to do it and show a video of you doing it, it gives QA an easier time finding out how it happens because if you just say "yea it exists" well then how are they meant to fix it without knowing how to do it.

[cobalt dagger]

Actually maia got out-stammed and out-tracked by ceras. I tried to run away from ceras before, crossed water crossed mud took weird paths, no avail. I died because I'm bad a maia and don't know how to fight 2 cera, but I mention this because, Maia is not able to escape them. It is able to fight them but... I honestly watch more cera kill maia than the other way around.

[tight cove]

How did u get out stammed by ceras????????

We’re you adult? Or old prime?

[cobalt dagger]

It took them a while but it's probably because they drain less stamina when running. Adult, it was pre-elder system update.

And pre-rex.

Cera also has a trot speed close but slightly less than teno's, still a very fast trot.

And of course faster swim so whenever I used water to break tracks I lost both stamina and space between me and them.

[tight cove]

You probably messed up by swimming a lot or they was hacking because cera can’t catch a Maia

[tight cove]

Yeah that’s why, never use water when running from ceras

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah but I needed to swim to break the tracks. Well, the problem is, thanks to how the tracking system works now, the tracks just showed up on the other side. I agree; I shouldn't have swam.

[tight cove]

Also when you wallow in mud you leave no prints so idk how they kept your tracks, that shouldn’t even be possible

[cobalt dagger]

But it made me not touch maia like ever again because the death felt helpless, at least at the time. I couldn't flee from them and couldn't fight them, well, to say I wasn't skilled enough to do either. I comprehend the bad cera is far more helpless against the good maia than the other way around, Maia is OP right now. But it's also got a high skill ceiling.

[tight cove]

Indeed

[autumn zephyr]

I think people should be allowed to know the bugs, its on the devs to fix them and people that do know them will just abuse on the ones that dont

[bitter iris]

What no?? Do you want a game where every fight is just wall glitch and 10000 bite speed? Like what? Abusing bugs like trikes infinite spar is practically cheating without downloading cheats. The less people who know the better

[autumn zephyr]

Like I said, the devs have to fix them, its on them that the bugs exist, the more people know and abuse them, the more pressed they should feel to fix them

[bitter iris]

That’s not how it works…

[autumn zephyr]

Thats how it should work, if it doesnt then it deserves criticism

[junior jay]

#balance-feedback message
@cobalt dagger
Nerf are too harsh for dilo and that Last Buff just screws over every semi aquatic and flyer

[cobalt dagger]

Just don't get bitten, it only screws them over if they get bitten by the venomous animal

And they will only recieve damage directly correlated to the amount of bites they get. It becomes an interactive DOT.

[junior jay]

Dilo is Small and runs really fast very easy to ambush with

[cobalt dagger]

I could make venom replaced by immediate extra damage on bite like troodon's venom then. Then they'd die before ever getting a chance to fly away or swim away.

The damage number would be the same either way, but it could be delivered by an attack-able clone later, or just be added on top of the basic bite like troodon's venom damage which is boring.

If clones are earned on bite, then dilo does double-damage to envenomed prey.

[junior jay]

Why would we remove an unique mechanic (clone) just so we could balance around that

[cobalt dagger]

What this means is that dilo just does double damage but in an interesting way.

I agree, let's not remove the clone. But I'm putting it in the perspective of OP or not for you.

If dilo earns clones on bite, then he gets one clone (1 extra bite) per bite, on something envenomed.

Aka get venom up, then he does double damage each bite, but the double is a clone rather than immediate.

I ran out of space but I wanted to ask for an agility buff for dilo. I don't think he would be OP at all with these changes because right now, either his venom works and he's a monster or it doesn't work and he's useless. His venom it totally countered by random glitches, and we shouldn't balance him around how random glitches ruin him.

[junior jay]

The problem rn is that the venom is over turned nothing else

[cobalt dagger]

Make it so rocks and flying away can't save you from venom anymore. Then tone down the venom by making it earned on bite, and making it so that prey has a reason to interact with the clone mechanic. (Currently, it's optimal to ignore clones and tank the damage because it's very hard to hit them as most species, it would be better to wait for the dilo itself.) But if you had a decent chance of actually countering the clone then you might bother to try.

[cobalt dagger]

The venom is working the same as it did in the past, except the horrible visibility is new but that's a bug.

But the damage it does /how many clones it summons is roughly the same and then clones also still get stuck on things and just don't work. I escaped clones as a kentro by climbing on a log.

If you fix the visibility and make the clones earned on bite then dilo will effectively just do a fancy double damage.

BUT his fancy double damage would be ruined by, well, basic logs.