balance-feedback-discussion

[unreal crystal]

I disagree

[faint robin]

Nah it won't

[deft otter]

We want trike to be able to defend itself in a 1v1 against a rex. Rex should not win a face to face fight with a trike

[faint robin]

Youre free to disagree

[junior jay]

So omni is just busted ig

[faint robin]

Whats the issue w utah

[junior jay]

Most People camp water/trees against omni

[faint robin]

Outside of environment not working on pouncers

[junior jay]

So omni is op

[faint robin]

Trees doesn't work

[junior jay]

Ik but they Will get fixed

[faint robin]

Omni is only op cuz bucking sucks

So as allo

[junior jay]

So now bucking sucks too

[deft otter]

People use water and rocks vs omni because bucking is a poorly designed feature that doesnt do what it should

[faint robin]

Yeah bucking sucks

[deft otter]

Ofc it does

[faint robin]

Wanna argue w that?

[junior jay]

Much better than before

[deft otter]

lol

[faint robin]

I surely want my stam to drain for not even a reliable chance to buck off smth

Utah can kill a bucking allo in 1 pounce

[faint robin]

Still sucks

Thats why ppl camp water to prevent pouncing

Ofc you'll do that against a mechanic which has counter but it doesn't work

[junior jay]

so uh whos gonna tell him

[faint robin]

Its rng

[junior jay]

not that

[unreal crystal]

Maybe trike is not your thing, have you considered playing other dinosaurs?

[junior jay]

bucking doesnt take stam

[faint robin]

Its still not doing anything against pounce

[junior jay]

it is very effective currently

have you even played anything this patch

[faint robin]

Maybe actually prove smth instead of just saying random phrases

This guy is saying that bucking is effective LOL

At this point I see no point in arguing lol

Continue saying trike is good vs rex🫥

[junior jay]

you were saying trikes block should fully block rexes crush even if its behind the trike 🫥

[faint robin]

Was just an idea to argue about

Im saying trike should stun rex with standing flip, can you already forget about that block statement

[steep otter]

Bucking may not be perfect but its much better now that it does not drain stam

[steep otter]

That would be op

Trike needs buffs, not be invencible

And rex needs adjusts

[steep otter]

I love trike, its one of my all time favorite herbs, but i dont want him to be unkilable, just have the power it deserves

[faint robin]

Noone wants trike to be unkillable

[steep otter]

He needs some love, does not look on par with rex tbh

[pseudo ember]

100%

[pseudo ember]

That standing flip needs to come back agility buff in spar

Better CC on its attacks

[steep otter]

CC on alt atack would help out a lot

[unreal crystal]

#balance-feedback message

@cobalt dagger
You have to invest alot of time to grow a 45% rex and even then you won't be able to fight things close to your weight (dont think you should). Your only options as a 45% rex is ambush smaller dinos or scavenge and the speed its mostly a tool to escape predators since at that stage theres not much you can do. I also think the speed is perfectly balanced since it immediately starts to decrease once you start gaining more weight

[pseudo ember]

That aswell Yh

[cosmic pelican]

A rex of that size can casually kill 700kg dilos in 2 seconds
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466491303729565696/5911981.MP4?ex=698d6ab4&is=698c1934&hm=30e39b0feb38ecc66e27c5b9aba1706076522d2663c229ba77c9f94f6a496d98&

Rex's pin damage doesnt scale with growth for some reason, or if it does, it might as well not be there...

[cobalt dagger]

I grew a rex to 50 and got grabbed by a deino which, happens to all creatures.

Time alone means little if you are just a 'superior small tier' along the way.

Trike takes a while to grow too, and so as well to deino, and they STRUGGLE as young creatures, they must always hide because of cannibal deinos and predators for trike. They are entirely helpless for all but near the end of their growth.

I'm say rex should get the same treatment... Helpless.

That speed is NOT helpless.

[cosmic pelican]

This means you can casually 1 tap adult omnis even as a 500-600kg rex

[unreal crystal]

Dilos is a different discussion as its in a very bad state at the moment

[cobalt dagger]

Someone should post that dilo murder clip underneath my feedback...

[cobalt dagger]

That is an example of anything dilo's size. Is pachy bad, is raptor bad? dilo bad, herra bad? They all get out-ran and pinned.

[cosmic pelican]

The species doesnt matter, it could be ANYTHING else in that size range and the exact same would happen. Its still a 900kg creature effectively 1 shotting something of very similar size while also being way faster.

[unreal crystal]

Pachy and raptor can easily dispatch of a 45% rex

[unreal crystal]

Thats only if you get a successful ambush

[cobalt dagger]

NO THEY CAN'T because the rex 1 shots them and has VERY good turn radius and if it's getting out-turned still it can run away and re-position

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466492170256122072/46C9291.MP4?ex=698d6b83&is=698c1a03&hm=7bbc5c7db09f2c21b0c78688865cbad41406dfab4b00e6885c834b693c93f6b8&

This is also another example. 100kg rex killing an 80kg troodon in 1 dmg tick.

[cobalt dagger]

Crush/pin is used mid-combat all the time.

[cosmic pelican]

Not really, youre faster, have very good agility for something that fast, not to mention good stamina as well

Even if youre losing, you can run away, reposition, and try again

All you need is 1 lucky hit to win

[cobalt dagger]

Stamina doesn't even matter that much if you run it down and 1 shot it in a few seconds.

[unreal crystal]

I mean i love troodon but cmon ..I think if you manage to pull that off as a 100kg rex you should be rewarded

[cosmic pelican]

It actually only takes 1 second for omni sized things
350dmg per second on any size rex go brr

[cobalt dagger]

Then we need to make it harder to pull off because right now, it's not hard.

[cosmic pelican]

My issue is not the troodon dying, its the fact a rex of ANY size deals ~350 damage per second on their pin

[cobalt dagger]

THAT'S why rexes are everywhere.

[unreal crystal]

Wasn't aware its 350dmg regardless the size... that doesn't sound right

[cosmic pelican]

A 900kg rex only has a bite force of roughly 80 as far as I know, if it scaled properly its pins dps would be roughly 50dmg per second

[cosmic pelican]

I mean... thats why I posted the clips

[cobalt dagger]

It hardly matters if it perma-pins things smaller than it. If you lower the damage but the rex still perma-pins then you just sit there and wait longer for your raptor-dilo-pachy to die. But, longer time gives more opportunity for your friends to help.

What needs to happen is for rex to be slower as well as scale crush to size.. That way raptors can actually hunt it if they want.

[unreal crystal]

Its 60dmg (as per ss provided by Gallus)

[cosmic pelican]

🥔 👍

But with that little bite force you might be able to outlast a pin. I mean ~30dps isnt that much for even an omni

And rex only pins things below 50% of its weight, if you want to be hyper specific theres a light pin that works up to 75% of its weight

[unreal crystal]

I understand stego or trike having a harder time baiting rex crushes but everything else really should be able to dodge them pretty reliably (except dilo atm)

[cosmic pelican]

An adult dilo would be let go of the first 1-2 pins if the damage scaled properly

That would give it plenty of opportunity to fight back

[cobalt dagger]

Oh ok that's better.

I think they put it like that though because rex is supposed to perma-pin/execute things below it's weight.

[cosmic pelican]

Right now it only stays pinned because it instantly becomes weak

Otherwise it should be let go after 1 tick of pin dmg, which would result in ~100dmg total

[cobalt dagger]

AH ok yeah they also get pinned on low hp, low stam too?

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah, allo and rex have solo grapple

[cobalt dagger]

It's easier to bluetooth crush than bluetooth bite. I tried to bite things like dodgey ai rabbits and chickens and then switch to crush and get them WAY more easily. But that's a hitbox problem. Crush hitbox should not be as generous as it is.

[cobalt dagger]

Well the thing is this creature still outruns things, raptor worries me the most as it's main solo damage is bleed. The others might be able to weaken rex with direct damage but the bleed might not impact the rex fast enough and it drains the raptor's stamina to apply it

[cosmic pelican]

Omni would be relatively fine imo. Its damage pounce deals ~30dps as an adult, even more as a prime, so it would only take a couple seconds of pouncing to make a rex that size think twice

Bleed was gutted not too long ago because it was wildly overpowered

[cobalt dagger]

But the other deal here is that if trike and stego and deino all have to be helpless babies, I think rex should be too and being able to run away from your problems isn't helpless.

[cosmic pelican]

Im fine with the growth curve and stats honestly, aside from the pin dmg of course. Id rather see rex get a hunger/water drain nerf to make it harder to sustain and potentially force it to move around more as a juvenile, which then would naturally put it in more danger.

[cobalt dagger]

I've seen some dumb rexes run and chase until their bleed kills them, which is annoying that they run around with no self preservation like that.

For the damage pounce, does that mean if the raptor empties his stamina on the 900-hp rex into a damage pounce, how much damage would the rex take? Ideally of course you don't want to empty your stamina because then it can pin you, but I'm just curioys.

[cosmic pelican]

Right now the 2 hours it has for its hunger timer is absolute madness

[cobalt dagger]

Except it can run away from that danger, and then likely hunt that danger in packs.

[cosmic pelican]

With a full stamina bar an adult omni deals 5000 damage, assuming you never get bucked off or waste stamina on slot switching.

[cobalt dagger]

I think because it's an ambush predator - er, supposed to be.

IF it was slowed down as an adult and truly unable to catch teno/cera/allo/ect no speed boost and had to fully rely on brawling apexes or LUCKY ambushes on midtiers, I could forgive the hunger.

[cosmic pelican]

So you would kill a rex that small in ~20% stamina give or take

[cobalt dagger]

That is a lot of damage, thanks for letting me know.

[cosmic pelican]

🫡

[golden tapir]

rex crush is weird, you can use it on top of them and it'll miss, but other times it'll hit even when using it further originally than when it missed lol

[cobalt dagger]

Agreed with this as well. It should function the same as bite with how it does hit detection.

[steep gazelle]

@wheat forum Well, the "One click win" ability in Deino is pretty much the only way of Deino kill something and have food

[wheat forum]

Deino is not the main concern of the feedback

[steep gazelle]

But you quoted him. And Deino kind of depends exclusively on that "one click win" to survive, Unlike the other 2

[cobalt dagger]

Deinos don't survive off of that 1 click because there's so many safe drinking spots that people don't make themselves grab-able to deino.

[wheat forum]

I did quote it because it’s also a one click win, not because it’s the main concern/issue.

[finite shadow]

@wanton current yea I don’t think we’re getting that Omni back, it did more bleed then allo

[wanton current]

I'd at least settle for an omni that can do a fourth the bleed allo can do.

[finite shadow]

Conveniently pretty close to what the current values are like

[wanton current]

???

nvm, it must be more

[finite shadow]

Omni does around 800 and allo does about 3500 atm

[wanton current]

800? Ain't that practically tick dmg tho?

[wanton current]

like 0.01 or something

cause I saw the effect it did for a carno, and 5-10 seconds of holding it down didn't even get the carno down to 98 bleed

Unless they changed it since.

[finite shadow]

Pretty sure it ramps up atm

[wanton current]

so it goes up at a set rate from 800?

[finite shadow]

The amount of bleed you deal ramps up over time. 800 bleed is the total from putting 100% of your stam into them

[wanton current]

oh

that's kinda buns tho if 800 is like...for 800 KGs

Well maybe not if u have a group-

[finite shadow]

Yea it’s equal to weight, Omni bleed pounce is poop rn but they’re very likely testing ramp up with bleed behind the scenes

[wanton current]

i hope

[finite shadow]

Could come to allo as well hopefully

[wanton current]

I still think they should do something with omni until then

at least give it somewhat better bleed and dmg.

[spiral ledge]

Brotato i trust in you , you will give me good battle in one week

[spiral ledge]

@junior jay in my opinion , they need to listen to the pro players of each Dino , is the best way to create a good balance

[junior jay]

I agree

[spiral ledge]

I mean most of the guys plays 10 hours with each Dino ?? I mean they can’t judge something without having the complete knowledge of each kit

[dusky surge]

i think they need to listen to everyone, not any specific group

in fact, i'd argue they should not listen to only people who are "pro players" of a dino, because

A: said players are inherently biased towards that dino and want things specifically to benefit the animal they prefer
B: it doesn't account at all for new players or their experience with the animal

[spiral ledge]

Good point , I think the same but i would like to think everybody would put from his own part to create a better balance , in the other hand most of the players that plays each Dino are not pro players so the changes of each Dino only would benefit 1% of the players of each Dino

[slim dragon]

The Isle isn't a competitive game

Everyone is supposed to be able to have their fun

[thorn mountain]

I dont think PVP players should be the way to balance it, that was my old ideas, but that would not work for a game like this

its a flawed way of thinking honestly

[spiral ledge]

yeah but in a game that any dino needs a lot hours to be able to be played at 100% and extract the 100% of the kit , i will put a example , A guy with 100 hours played could think that , that dino needs a buff but a pro player in the other side could think that it is to op right now

[slim dragon]

Yeah
Account for the majority, not the outliers who barely represent 1% of the playerbase

[sonic flame]

I disagree as a certified Teno enjoyer, I'd like to see the animal nerfed into the ground to specifically cater to the playstyle I prefer at the expense of most other player's enjoyment of the animal. We are not the same.

[dusky surge]

but here's the thing tho, you're still biased

you PROVE my point

your bias just leads you down a darker, more evil path

which is based as hell don't get me wrong but still

[dusky surge]

when i see the words "skilled isle player" i think of those raptor players

you know the ones

[spiral ledge]

yep but that 1% can destroy the game experience of the rest , if things are done wrong

[slim dragon]

No, they can only destroy the experience of the other players they meet
Which will still be not many players

Plus, I don't think The Isle is skill expressive enough to have that kind of consideration

Like, I understand that in MOBAs, hero shooters or other combat-oriented games taking high skilled players into account is important, because they can obliterate an entire lobby if they play an unbalanced character

But The Isle isn't that kind of game

[dusky surge]

like lemme give you an example of why pros aren't your answer to balance

ivy is a character in deadlock. there was a build for her called "melee ivy". pro players hated it because it was annoying, not even because it was good, and it relied on the melee system as a WHOLE being insanely busted, not ivy

but because pros didn't like it because it was annoying, and it was mainly ivy that was the MOST annoying, IVY got nerfed hard with a massive melee damage penalty

then, they nerfed melee across the board, but kept ivy, so she just... couldn't do melee well at all for a long period until they FINALLY undid the change and melee ivy is now entirely fine

the only reason it was nerfed was because pro players specifically got frustrated with this pseudo-meme build and they nerfed it because the pros agreed it was annoying, even though it wasn't the right answer

[spiral ledge]

i mean for example if a pro carno is able to kill 40 raptors / dilos / etc in one session , that are 40 persons that you ruins experience because a dino is not well balance Sure, your point makes sense; those pro players aren't annoying enough, but they can ruin the gaming experience for a large majority.

[slim dragon]

That ain't happening though

[dusky surge]

pros aren't game devs. they can understand the game and all its deep technicalities and still not have a single damn clue how to balance it

[spiral ledge]

trust me yes

[slim dragon]

If a "pro" carno can kill 40 raptors just like that, then it doesn't take one to tell the dino is unbalanced

Besides, nobody even agrees on what is a good isle player

[spiral ledge]

i have a good definition of that , a guy who knows how to extract the 100% kit of each dino

[slim dragon]

That means literally nothing

[thorn mountain]

guys I know how to abuse bugs!

[sonic flame]

also depending on player age and specifics of the encounter, as well as session length, I could see something like that not being a problem

it's pretty brainless to kill a stupid raptor

[spiral ledge]

it is a way to be more competitive with each dino

[sonic flame]

likewise, it's easy to kill a subadult, or an injured animal

[thorn mountain]

bro...

extracting '100%' of the kit to you is abusing bugs, man thats crazy

[sonic flame]

Frolo that's a crazy strawman

At no point did they say that you need to abuse bugs to make full use of an animal's kit

[thorn mountain]

he said its a way to be more competitive with each dino

but yes

[sonic flame]

He said "it" which could refer to "extracting the 100% kit of each dino" but you instantly interpeted "it" as "I know how to abuse bugs" when it was ambiguous

you then took that assumption and ran with it lol

[slim dragon]

Semantics debate letsgo

[thorn mountain]

I see.. im sorry

[sonic flame]

Bad faith discussion, in my feedback channel?

More likely than you'd think [I have a degree in communications hon hon hon]

[spiral ledge]

sometimes yes sometimes not , i will put you some examples for example with the maia how to change betwween modes very but very fast , carno how to crate directional changes to have good agility or allo how to bug the clawswipe and Moving sideways to strike, as the developers said, nature always finds a way to survive. I know it shouldn't be this way, but sometimes if they don't fix things, what problem do we have? We have to adapt to the tools they've given us to unlock the dinosaur's full potential.

[sonic flame]

That being said, it is also a fair point that being up to date on bugs can be interpreted as being more competetive if it's like "You can use this to invalidate a bad matchup" and I don't think anyone would seriously argue that you shouldn't know how to do that

especially if it's in the game for several months and/or has a massive impact on your animal's viability

[thorn mountain]

I guess

[sonic flame]

On that tho like half of those examples aren't bugs

[spiral ledge]

that is what i said , you doesnt need the bug to exploit the potential of you dino

but in some certain cases could be a option

but what we do if they dont fix his game??

for example with the clawswipe of allo , dondi said they will improve it and it is the same like day one

[feral hazel]

Can a full prime Trike flip a Stego that is also full prime, like 9.3 ton? I didnt really tested that but I dont think thats possible?

[steep otter]

It can on running headbut

[golden tapir]

#balance-feedback message

@fast jetty have you played the game like at all? If a Rex is faster than something and can pin it then he becomes slower than it too, except for dibble mid tier wise. As for stegos the servers are literally plagued with stegos especially on petite pieds. Stegos are broken and they literally demolish Rexes. Go play on oasis free admin and figure that out

[fast jetty]

1st of all we left petits pieds in 2025 2nd of all youre a rex player and you dont see it 3rd of all if youre ass with rex ofc a stego will kill you

[golden tapir]

And if you’re ass with stego a Rex will kill you. It’s a skill based matchup but it’s actually in the stegos favor due to that huge hitbox, never ending stamina due to tactile mutation, broken bleed against a low bleed resistance dinosaur. Also don’t forget stego takes half the time to grow than a Rex, and can still compete against a Rex. Stego is broken and if you think otherwise we can go play oasis free admin in a few hours (me stego against your Rex). Try to prove me otherwise

[fast jetty]

im aint even playing apexes and sub-apex genius

[golden tapir]

Then your opinion should not be taken seriously. I play all dinosaurs and I form my own opinions of them, I advise you do the same

[fast jetty]

the thing that i dont play apexes and sub-apexes doesent mean i didnt try them you also cant say to me that you regularly play every dino

[golden tapir]

I mean I just don’t think Rex is op at all. If you get pinned by one it’s on you and you deserve to die. Rex has to ambush 90% of the roster to be able to catch them. I do think Rex prime speed needs a nerf (he shouldn’t get a speed increase at all), ambush speed needs to be reduced to 8 seconds and nerf the turn radius a bit

Stego can absolutely kill a Rex, it’s a skill matchup, even though stego shouldn’t be competing in the first place when he takes half the time to grow and as for trike trike is a wip and the devs are constantly testing the matchup to try and improve trike. Trike will become stronger at one point

[fast jetty]

i didnt say that stego cant kill a rex but its completely unfair battle and stego cant even run away from the rex

[cosmic pelican]

The 350dps for juvi rex's pin also has to go

50+ kmh almost 1t rex dealing that much damage while pinning every small tier is not okay

[fast jetty]

@golden tapir see?

you cant be fr lol yea your opinion shouldnt be taken seriously not mine

[valid robin]

To get real specific, as someone who has played it, Rex hits 57 Kmh around 600-700kg and massively slows down by 1000kg

The speed only lasts for 3-4 growth procs and it turns like a truck while it’s so fast

Max prime Dilo, max prime Omni, and really any flavor of fg Carno can easily delete you

I honestly just don’t think it’s OP

[valid robin]

Ain’t no way you used this as an argument, prime stego can easily clap prime rex

Literally one good running power swing and stego wins bro

[fast jetty]

is this ragebait?

https://tenor.com/view/jgmm-cat-meme-ragebait-cat-think-cat-ponder-gif-7034802297606826390

[valid robin]

I can tell super clearly you’ve never played this matchup nor seen it outside of YouTube reels

You’ve probably watched dustythrills clap a bunch of stegos and now think it’s completely Rex dominated

[fast jetty]

whatever helps you sleep tonight ig

no one said about primes btw

[valid robin]

Prime is basically guaranteed unless you’re clueless

[fast jetty]

and what does that have to do with this whole conversation?

[valid robin]

As a balance feedback discussion, it’s basically pointless to talk about balance if you’re not talking primes, since players who know the game will hit prime basically every life

[golden tapir]

Yeah that’s a bug

[golden tapir]

It’s not unfair at all

Stego can run away if not ambushed and he can also fight back

[golden tapir]

And this is true…

[valid robin]

It absolutely is true

I’ve ran that matchup multiple times in game, Rex v stego is super close

[golden tapir]

I have killed 90% of the Rexes I fought as a stego

[valid robin]

Stegos can usually bring more bodies to the fight too

[golden tapir]

In survival servers when a Rex tries fighting me I just spam 180 swings and win

It’s really not hard… stego can win against a Rex easier than Rex can win against the stego personally

[golden tapir]

Exactly. 5 group limit. Half the time to grow. And less vulnerable during his growth stages

Don’t forget he’s a herbivore so he doesn’t have to go hunting like Rex or risk his life looking for food

Stego is beyond broken I have been saying this for a while. Every single person that tried to argue to me that Rex wins I have won against them in a 1v1 which humbled them quick

[valid robin]

I think it’s very even depending on skill, crush has a lot of range which most rex players aren’t good enough to exploit

[golden tapir]

If the stego spams the 180 swings crush range doesn’t even compete

The Rex will always get hit first

[valid robin]

I think the one thing is Rex can crush from out of the range of swing if it really knows the hitboxes well

But the Rex has to play out of its mind

[golden tapir]

Can you expand further on this I don’t know what you mean

[valid robin]

Rex lunges forward when it crushes, but it actually hits ahead of itself before the hitbox arrives, so you can crush from behind the stego and disable it before it can whack you

It requires really good Rex knowledge, but if you’re good at timing the crush you can stagger the stego and trade hits at worst 1:1

This requires a huge amount of skill from the side of Rex, I imagine most rexes are just gonna get flattened

It also requires almost frame perfect timing and distancing, its basically worthless in a big disorganized brawl (2v2 or 2v3)

[golden tapir]

Yeah I know what you mean. But if you’re trading hits with the stego, especially behind it, the Rex will receive headshot damage while the stego won’t. And the stego gets out of the stun faster than the Rex does. So the Rex will take another headshot power swing to the head. It simply just isn’t a good trade

[valid robin]

This is true, but after 3-4 crushes and leg break the Rex can pin the stego to the ground by crushing its tail

One small mistake on either side is gg

[golden tapir]

@valid robin you seem like a good Rex want to 1v1 my stego

[valid robin]

I’m at work rn but I’m down tonight

[golden tapir]

Bet in how many hours would that be

[valid robin]

6-7

[golden tapir]

Oasis free admin server?

[valid robin]

Sure, I haven’t used it yet tho

[golden tapir]

Bet I’ll DM you then

[cobalt dagger]

I believe you that stegos wins and I have no other context for this conversation, I ONLY read this comment of yours. BUT. I wanna get gud at stego because rexes keep killing my stegs. Got any tips for me? I know to spam the 180 as much as possible and then immediately attack after since my tail is at them.

But like. My biggest problem is when they crush the tail, get whooped 3 times as a result but kill me with crush damage and then sit down with thrombic mutation to avoid death by bleed. The way I take it, I need to play slower to force them to bleed out, but once I'm leg broken... I don't know how to make them take it slow other than always punish when they crush the tail.

[golden tapir]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP89n6nsB/

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP89nCddJ/

@cobalt dagger this is what you need to be doing

The Rexes almost always die of damage first rather than bleed against stego

And if the Rex engages you, leg breaks you, then retreats just chase after him and he will bleed out even if your leg is broken lol

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP89nfE2K/

[cobalt dagger]

I think that stego is getting high ping lucky hits and I also think those rexes are bad... The rexes I fight, evenwhen they're getting comboed, they don't run away without putting one last crush in. Maybe that makes them bad, but somehow it works on me.

I believe you that stego kills rex but I don't think videos of a good stego whooping BAD rexes will help me get good at stego. I need a video of a good stego vs a GOOD rex.

You can also see these rexes are bad because they're letting the steg get too close. They are taking too long to start running to avoid it.

They're letting it get into hit range, THEN running...

And getting 180'd as punishment.

A good rex would begin running BEFORE the stego is in hit range.

[faint robin]

https://youtu.be/keZ4EcL9HBM?si=kQnB83ROM3DFcjrb 18:04 rex crushes trike on the head and stuns it

Also a little before that rex fractured trike leg via head bite

19:13 - another stun to the head from rex crush

19:17 - leg fracture from bite to trike's front

Yeah surely "trike head armor fixes helped"

[steep otter]

There is still several points of imbalance, rex has the advantage em manny areas

[twilit haven]

Hey question for all the Omnis out there, have you found any success taking down anything larger than a Cera since the changes and how long did it take approximately?

[alpine sleet]

how is trike vs rex now? i didnt play in a month or so

[steep gazelle]

Omni is overnerfed now

But they will fix it

(Sometime in the next few months xd)

[gritty pendant]

osteophagic not giving any diets...

[thorn mountain]

it never has nor is it meant to

[faint robin]

Rex still slams
They said they fixed head armor but apparently it doesn't work

[viscid mica]

@random stump no hate but your just…. Wrong about carno it’s absolutely destroying anything 1800 and below atm no def

[steep otter]

• there is still several other imbalances in ther matchup

I hate the fact that trike can only stun a rex if both are the same size, and trike has to RUN for it to work but a rex can be smaller them trike does not need to run and can stun it

[dusky surge]

ikr, its absolutely bizarre

you would think trike would be the more effective stunner

[faint robin]

True af

[steep otter]

Its stupid

The elder weight gain diference also its crazy

Trike gains weigh much slower

[forest pivot]

an exception is cerato weighing 1950kg, it also gets destroyed by carno :P

[dull viper]

Haven't seen an Omni pack kill anything recently at all, experienced a pack of 3 on an afk trike pouncing and biting nonstop for 5 mins and it stood up and walked off

[forest pivot]

most players are using allo over omni now for the pinslop

[alpine sleet]

bruh

[random stump]

In my experience its been getting folded in half by omnis because you walk 2 inches to the right, dodge its charge, and pounce it

Let alone ceratos making it puke

[viscid mica]

Cera is a exception but omnis atm shouldn’t be able too mount if your holding RMB

If you don’t stop moving and only turn after getting some distance you should be fine

[random stump]

They can

So i guess its bugged?

Cuz ive had them get me while im holding it while sprinting and while holding my ground

[viscid mica]

Interesting cuz playing omni we been having hell

And as carno I’ve shredded everything

[random stump]

Oh and ofc theres pachy which holds m2 and you can either recieve a skull fracture or run off

[viscid mica]

I mean ya don’t fight pachies unless you got the drop of them

[random stump]

And that leaves...
Dilo (bad)
Galli (bad)
Troodon (bad)
dryo (bad)
Hypsi (bad)
Beipi(bad)
Assorted babies (babies)
And herrera (in trees)

As carnos choices to fight

Oh and teno which is an entertaining fight ngl but whens the last time you saw a teno that wasnt actively being eaten by 3 allos

Because its other options are either bigger then it and it doesnt have a sliver of hope (rex, allos, etc)

Turn 1000000x better then it and it is entirely their fault if they ever get hit, and it feels as though carno has 0 agency. You either get an "ambush" where you have to charge from a mile away to do anything (easy to dodge) or you try and ambush them, dont do enough damage to kill (or perhaps dont even knock over), and are juked for the next 5 minutes because, again, you have possibly the worst turn radius in the game, all for a highly telegraphed attack that doesnt result in a kill, a fracture, any real bleed, or really anything at all.

Or cerato.

Cerato.

I rest my case, this dinosaur is complete buns, and is only any good on laggy servers with ridiculous desync making it nigh impossible to dodge

Rex, while being far from balanced, has an attack with an unnoticable telegraph (a quiet rumble and a slightly open mouth while standing still), that doesnt reduce its turn radius, instantly fractures anything weighing like 100kg less then it, and usually just outright kills animals under half its own weight.

Pachy's charged headbutt, which has an obvious telegraph, can generally fracture things ~2x its own weight consistently in 1 or 2 attacks.

Allo/omni pounces 1 shot anything under 45%/100% of the combined weight of pouncers respectively (allos % might be lower)

Herrera.

Deino.

Carno is, relative to every other carnivore (excluding ptera & dilo) utterly and entirely pathetic. Saying otherwise is wild

[viscid mica]

Again I dunno how your losing to omnis so much

[viscid mica]

I genuinely dunno how your finding carnos so hard. In its current form it completely deletes anything its size and below even ceras while the hardest competition are not safe

Gold RMB and click click click

[random stump]

no

it literally does not

[random stump]

carnotaurus charge... slow turn! extremely telegraphed. if not used over extremely long wind up, not punishing to get hit by! at all!

omniraptor, fast! nimble. walk 3 inches to the right or left! carnotaurus miss charge! then, press m2, pounce carnotaurus!!! win!

[viscid mica]

Um

Do you not know how to drift?

[random stump]

i do

[viscid mica]

Than why turn when you can get distance and drift

[random stump]

would you like me to state what happens when you drift the moment after the omni dodges you, or when you continue running to get distance, and then turn?

because ive tried both. neither work

[random stump]

because then i am, once again, sprinting from a long distance, with an extremely telegraphed, easily dodgable attack, that is then, dodged.

now i am down ~10% stamina, and the target (assuming its not a dilo which really cant dodge anything) is down like 2%

I must now continue sprinting, turning, and charging again, while i continue to be dodged. this ends 3 ways

A - I decide to cut and run before im out of stamina against something that will rip me apart
B - Desync loves me today and the thing somehow gets hit
C - I forget about my stamina, and am ripped apart.

[viscid mica]

I dunno not my experience with how spammable RMB attack ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hasty coyote]

tbf, even if its a long telegraphed attack and you miss, you still have enough stamina to try again like 20 times. and if they make a SINGLE mistake, you can just spam ram them while they're down

[random stump]

and if i am hit by :
Pachy charge
Teno Tail slam
Cerato (any attack, as long as it has bile)
omni pounce

I am :
fractured, and likely to die if it was a leg fracture, otherwise still forced to leave, as body increases stamina cost of sprinting by 2x, and skull is... skull.
Followed up with 2 claw swipes, forcing me to disengage or else bleed out.
Puking, hit a few more times, forced to leave
Pounced, bye bye stamina, bleeding, bye bye blood pool, time to run.

All of the currently available targets for carno (that anyone actually plays, i havent seen a dryo in years), can stun it or bleed it out or both.

It is a game of 1 mistake with omni and pachy, it is a game of 2-3 mistakes with teno and cerato.

and thats for both sides.

if you are losing to a carno ever it is because of your own skill issue, lack of awareness as a smaller animal that it CAN actually kill with 1 stun and follow up attacks before you get up, or desync

float like a bus sting like a feather

there are 4 animals carno has the choice of attacking now (as the rest of the roster under its own size is never really played), and 3 of em are busted. The fourth is well designed in a game full of busted animals, extremely rare, and is more or less MADE to be able to fight off carno.

[lucid lark]

Carno mains in the big 2026 complaining about not one tapping everything with a headbutt I see

[hasty coyote]

If you're fighting a single pachy and dying after a single fracture, genuine skill issue. Body still gives you plenty of time to run them down and then you can still trade every hit and win if they try to pressure you, leg just allows the pachy to escape or if they try to fight just trade hits and win, and head may blind you but you can still hear just fine so follow the sounds and run them down.
If you're fighting a group of pachies, then thats your problem. dont. unless you can ambush one and take it out then get out

If you're fighting a teno, then you knew the risks. Thats like the largest thing you're supposed to hunt, and killing you is its main way to live.

Cera is similar to teno, its main defense is just killing you. But you arent forced to leave after vomit, you can attempt to blitz down the cera or leave. your pick.

omni is similar to pachy, except way easier. If its a solo omni pouncing you, hes burning ALL his stamina if he want to deal damage. So just kill him the moment you knock them off a tree or rock. And probably don't even try to buck, its genuinely almost never worth it. and if theres a pack, pick one off or don't engage.

It seems to me like you either like to play very safe (which is not a bad thing) or underestimate carno's ability to just blitz down most targets. Additionally one major thing you seemed to have not noticed, nearly every "failed hunt" you described still allows you to get away, most dinos don't get that option at ALL. If they are losing, they just die because they lack the speed and/or stam to get away.

[random stump]

You clearly havent fought any pachies as carno.

Teno, yeah fair enough, ive stated thats a fair fight and doesnt really need its dynamics changed.

Cerato maybe shouldnt make carno puke with a singular bite but thats a cerato issue not a carno issue

You have clearly not touched the game in a while if you dont understand that they made omnis stamina drain like 1/5 of what it was while pouncing, that trees and rocks no longer knock them off, and that water is full of deinos. The only other option is to buck them off, which nukes your stamina.

someone did a test with current omni and if you let a SINGULAR omni stay on you, and dont buck it off or get to water, it can do nearly enough damage solo to kill an adult rex.

[lucid lark]

So buck it off

[random stump]

bye bye stamina, carnotaurus DIE!

[lucid lark]

Guess you shouldn’t have wasted all your stamina running around before getting pounced

[random stump]

that is literally stating "Guess you shouldnt have played carno".

[lucid lark]

Ok well carnos aren’t inherently bad at stamina management, that’s a player issue.

[random stump]

💀

[lucid lark]

Well yeah, generally when a carno player is bad at stamina management they do infact turn into a skeleton if consumed all the way. Good job.

[hasty coyote]

You clearly havent fought enough pachies as carno.

fair enough with cera, it does love getting 500 buffs for no reason.

I will admit I havent fought many omnis since the recent patch. That is my b for not keeping up with every change. But that does seem to still be the standard "pounce is poorly designed" rather than a carno specific issue then. Though I will not deny that it impacts carno.

The rest of my points still stand though. Carno does have a few bad matchups, but those are mostly against things it either shouldnt be hunting, or things that are obviously overtuned and are hurting EVERYTHING. I could agree with adjustments to carno, but I really don't think it needs any buffs at this point.

[random stump]

honestly i get your points, and i think we agree on alot. my issue with carno is everyone else on any server in the game is playing as those overtuned animals, or carno's bad matchups (as in, anything over 1800 kg). The devs dont seem to nerf the busted stuff much, and when they do, its almost never enough. If the standard of balance is going to be things like cerato, current omni, allo, and rex, then the rest of the roster needs significant buffs to keep up with the overtuned, never-going-to-be-nerfed animals.

and of the playable creatures that anyone actually, yknow, ever selects and plays as, carno is certainly one of the worst, above things like ptera for sure, but that isnt saying much.

[hasty coyote]

that is entirely valid, thats one of the main issues. People gravitate towards the biggest and strongest, and unfortunately carno specializes in the small and weak. The issue is that if you make carno able to handle the big and strong, then it will just reduce the smalls to atoms upon sight (it already is close to that against certain smalls like dilo).

[random stump]

certainly true, but in all honesty i think the carno dilo relationship is similar to the carno cerato, where its not an issue with carno, but an issue with the other animal. dilo is pathetically weak, with a turn radius similar to that of carno, doesnt really have a niche, and the nights are all so bright with most animals having night vision to the point that theres never an opportunity longer then 30~ seconds once every ingame week for dilos to attack when they can see and their target cannot

at least carnos miserable turn radius is like that because carno is a 50km/h speed demon with a charge that (Theoretically) allows it to utterly dominate anything smaller than itself

dilo has a miserable turn radius for the sole purpose of letting it be faster then omni, which i get they want that so it can dart in and out of the darkness when hunting. its just theres no darkness to dart in and out of, and it doesnt dart so much as lumber, and its footsteps are so loud you can tell exactly where its coming from long before it actually hits you

[hasty coyote]

Yeah now that omni has received like 200 buffs, I can def see them buffing dilo's turn at least by a bit. it prob still needs to have not the best turning so omnis still have a chance to get on the sides, but it doesnt need to turn as bad as it does.

[random stump]

dilo should absolutely 100% have the turn radius and acceleration needed to dodge a carnos charge, but it just... doesnt

[hasty coyote]

that and it doesnt need to have louder footsteps than rex

[random stump]

yeah that too, if anything dilo should have one of the quietest, especially if nights are going to remain so bright that even stuff like stego sees like its day 99% of the time

[viscid mica]

Gang he is right

[viscid mica]

Omnis bleed is in the gutter rn thou it’s only really useful against sprint fighters like Maia and carno

[viscid mica]

I still think you are just not doing it right. Carnos are on mass devastating smaller dinosaurs especially omnis I can give you pachy and teno as they are far harder fights but a solo prime can easily beat 3 or so prime omnis with ease if played correctly

Carno can spam rmb and it gets max charge while standing still meaning you can standing spam it for 250 per hit that’s a ton of damage at that size

It’s faster than everything, bigger than most and has a easy to use CC attack that does massive damage for its size

Carno is by no means the most op but it is not at all in a bad spot

I’d say the Dino over all the worst right now is dilo due to its complete and utter lack of mobility

That or dryo

[hasty coyote]

I ain’t gonna lie to you my dude, even if Omni has bad bleed, if it’s useful against carno and especially Maia, it’s gonna be useful on dilo. Since dilo has half the blood pool of carno (and less than 1/5th of Maia’s) and also sprints a lot, especially against Omni. If it stands still, it has to rely on its horrible agility and alts (which is a free win for Omni)

[random stump]

no

im not making an argument my guy im stating reality. nothing you say will convince me otherwise

and carno absolutely does NOT get full damage from charging 2 feet and headslamming, it has to charge for a good while for that

also they nerfed the speed at which you can head swing, its not what it was a few patches ago when carno was absolutely 100% busted

[viscid mica]

no cuz its been bugged since rex HT and they havent fixed it, I both played against as omni and as carno today and can confidently say it still stands still

[random stump]

and i can confidently say i have yet to 2 tap an omni with standing still headbutts.

so it clearly isnt doing that

[viscid mica]

prime omni is 680kg gang

thats far more than 2 tap

and again thats you my play test TODAY says otherwise

[random stump]

adult omni... 450!

[viscid mica]

wrong

[random stump]

450... /250....... <2!

[viscid mica]

380 adult 680 prime

[random stump]

prime omni... 680!

[viscid mica]

yes sir

[random stump]

680.... /250.... <3!

havent 3 tapped any either!

[keen plover]

395 adult

[random stump]

ive battered them with 5+ headslams and they're still running around barking!

so i do not know WHAT on earth you're talking about!

[viscid mica]

dunno what to say man I have 100% been deleting them

[random stump]

gaslight gatekeep girlboss or smthn idk

[keen plover]

not a chance

[viscid mica]

where you full prime?

[random stump]

yeah!

[viscid mica]

than your desyncing bad or missing

[random stump]

i oneshot a sub!

with a full charge.....

and a different sub, wasnt knocked over by the charge and just... ran off!

[viscid mica]

ya do this sounds like your ping is god awful

[random stump]

ping was 60 the whole time

North american on NA servers

[viscid mica]

that makes no sense

cuz I legit wiped a 8 man with 4 primes just earlier

[random stump]

hey man idk what to say

i click the omniraptor with the head slam

and they dont die, and then i click them again, and they dont die again

I'd say it was something like when i lost a deino cuz my hits just never registered even though my ping was 60, but he never even made a hurt noise

whereas in this case they were screamin and screechin when hit and just

didnt die

maybe its congenital out the wazoo + a bit of desync turning body and head hits into tail hits but idk

[viscid mica]

maybe

but like i dunno it sounds weird cuz I was shredding earlier

[limber delta]

@barren oracle I agree completely but you forgot to mention how raptor is good against carno too because not only can it do heavy bleed (which carno is super weak against), it also doesn't take much to pin one as carnos are pretty light so depending on size 2-3 of them can easily take out a carno

[barren oracle]

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure 2 or 3 Dilos can easily take out a Carno, too. But the problem is that a solo Dilo struggles to survive against a Carno. Even a solo Omni can survive if spotted by a Carno, it can juke it and/or jump on a rock to keep out of reach from it.

[limber delta]

yea but it's much simpler for raptor to both 1v1, 2v1 and 3v1 carno, dilo is kinda just cooked rn, not just against carno but in general

[barren oracle]

Dilo is in a bad state but that's mostly because it's so screwed by Carno and it also doesn't help that Omni is currently overtuned with its crazy damage pounce. At least it can still run away from Cerato, Allo and Rex (although there's those speedy big juvi rexes at one point but I digress). That's why my post in the other channel was about the Dilo vs Carno situation.

Omni could use a nerf tbh. That damage pounce is just silly broken. Nerf the damage pounce but also buff the bleed pounce to compensate. Also there's still the fact that trees should go back to knocking off pouncers.

[limber delta]

I actually think raptor is the only balanced small combat dino and all the others are underpowered, rather than raptor being the only overpowered one (by 'small combat dino', I mean pachy, dilo, raptor, and troodon). I agree that bleed pounce can be buffed to compensate for damage pounce nerf, but not one or the other.

Yeah a lot of dilo's suffering comes from carno but it's both a carno being too strong issue and dilo being too weak

dilo seriously loses to a lot while having little to show for it

(especially that turn...)

[barren oracle]

I mentioned this on another channel but I'd be okay with giving up a bit of speed or damage in exchange for better agility.

[limber delta]

lowk i'm not, dilo doesn't deserve to have that low agility full stop 😭 just give it flat agility buff

and while we at it, carno hitbox nerf, that thing is bluetooth even on sub-50 ms

[barren oracle]

Keep in mind it's faster than Omni, that's the reason why I mention potential trading a bit of speed for agility. Quite frankly I think Dilo should beat Omni more often than not in a 1v1 fight because it's almost twice as big. If making it decently agile would make it overpowered, then a slight speed nerf to make it slower than Omni could balance that out a bit so Omni could still get away from it in that scenario.

Oh, and obviously Dilo should have its footstep sounds changed. It should have the quieter small tier footstep sounds, imo that should be the case for everyone below 1 ton.

[limber delta]

Fair but I don’t think raptors will have an issue escaping agility buffed dilos considering they can jump and also the matchup is surprisingly even rn

But yeah full agree on the footstep thing

[lucid lark]

It’s not just dilos that have that footstep problem either, herraras and even troodons sound like a horse clopping away to lmao

[steep gazelle]

Stego and Rex makes less noise when running than Troodon

Very fair 🔥🔥

[maiden temple]

Throwback to being able to hear raptors in bushes but a running carno was silent

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
Buffing dilo agility could heavily change its matchup with raptor, it should never have jump either - unless it loses HP imho.

The way I see it it's meant to envenomate the carno, thus making it lose vision to effectively chase a dilo down, which works in theory but in practice you're on the floor most of the fight and then drop dead

Unless you use foliage to your advantage, that's about the only way you'll get bites in and get away

[limber delta]

Utah already has a pretty good matchup against dilo, worst case scenario the dilo vs Utah matchup just becomes a more even carno vs Utah matchup.

Of course, if carno actually got a hitbox nerf this wouldn’t be needed

[maiden temple]

That's what I'm saying, it's a decent matchup so any change might ruin it. Balance is so frail

I'm always for carno changes, I hate it in its current state lol

[limber delta]

yea my biggest issue with it is that if ur smaller than it and you can't jump to a rock there is absolutely ZERO counterplay

You see it? Too bad you aren't escaping it.

Okay that's fine, I'll just dodge it like in Legacy? Actually force it to ambush or predict me? NOPE, instant charges that have a hitbox twice the size of the carno so it doesn't have to worry about silly things like skill, it can just aim in your general direction and it's guaranteed free damage.

Okay maybe I can go to trees to escape via obstacles? NOPE, its turn speed isn't even that bad anymore and it slides off the edges of trees like it's playing a parkour platformer.

Legacy carno is a small game hunter, evrima carno is a small game genocider, to the point it's unhealthy for the game. My biggest issue with it is how undodgable it is, I don't mind the good speed or forest navigation.

[faint robin]

Why tf is fg rex stunning 11.5 ton trike with crush

[maiden temple]

Carno felt much better when it needed a run up to charge but could brawl instead. Relying on charge this hard and headbanging in place is just goofy

It made it much easier to play though, maybe that was the purpose of the changes

[faint robin]

Just fought 2 fg rexes as 11.5 ton prime trike. Whole fight was stun stun stun stun fracture stun stun stun stun pin pin death
Cool and interactive gameplay for a lot of hours of growth time

[steep otter]

I told you, rex can stun animals up to 1.15x times its weight, trike can only stun a rex the same size has him

A 11.9ton rex can stun a 12.5ton trike

• rex gets full fracture damage at 75% btw

[faint robin]

I don't see any reason in growing trike over stego

Grows way longer yet is a rex fodder

[steep otter]

There is none

Stego even grows faster

And can run away from 2 rexes in open fields

[faint robin]

I didn't even have time to run to better ground so I retreated to nearby forestx didn't stop rexes from crush spamming me

Crush is a low effort high reward ability for some reason

[steep otter]

Aaaaand gets its weight much faster in the elder stage

[faint robin]

Just sad how trike stays garbage since the ht

Even stego got improved but trike is still rex food

[thorn mountain]

@neon olive thats desync

[neon olive]

how can i fix it

if i cant then they should fix it

[thorn mountain]

its a server side issue, due to your ping, play on a server closer to you

[neon olive]

its eu and im from eu lol

[thorn mountain]

its like if im playing on anorth american server as a australian in a shooter game and I complain that im being shot from nowhere (im australian)

[thorn mountain]

you are on 80 ping

[neon olive]

idk why

[thorn mountain]

internet. or as it is the server being too far, the eu is quite large

[neon olive]

but i happent so often this bugg

[thorn mountain]

its not a bug

[scenic crystal]

I had a great time playing Stego, and every Rex = Pin for almost all of his HP. I only hit him three times. I lost a few hours in five seconds, losing my Stego 68% growth. It's a cool skill, such a zero-skill Rex Pin. I hope that when Spino comes out, it's so overpowered that the guys on Rexes cry 😈

[pseudo ember]

Sorry to say but spino is likely loosing to Rex

[dusky surge]

imma be real, the opposite is probably true lmao

spino is probably kicking rex's ass

[pseudo ember]

4 crushes all it takes and spino is disabled

[pseudo ember]

We will have to see as if spino is around 10-13ton range it takes 4 crushes and like 3 from prime elder rex

[scenic crystal]

It's a game so they can overdo it with spino like they did with rex

[pseudo ember]

Spino bite going to be weak but then claws will do some damage

[pseudo ember]

They really won’t and they were hinting about reducing spino size I think

[pseudo ember]

Giga will be the main competitor of Rex

Spino prob too slow to do anything

[scenic crystal]

• Acro❤️

[scenic crystal]

Maybe it will be fast, it's hard to say

[pseudo ember]

Acro too small

[pseudo ember]

Probably 👀

[scenic crystal]

It won't be as small as allo

[pseudo ember]

Acro around 5-6tons it just gets instant pinned

[scenic crystal]

That's why it's a pointless mechanic without the possibility of exiting the pin

[dusky surge]

if rex decides to mess with spino, it likely will just die

[pseudo ember]

On land or in water?

[dusky surge]

also if you think acro is 5-6 tons, you don't know isle acro

[dusky surge]

either

[pseudo ember]

It’s just a bit beefy I highly doubt it’s gonna be bigger than 6 tons

[dusky surge]

it's been classified as an apex several times by devs

[pseudo ember]

Srs? U got ss

[scenic crystal]

And many slower dinos lose out because there is a pin that can be spammed constantly and kill a full hp dino in a few seconds

[dusky surge]

no, i dont have a screenshot, but i do recall it

i believe it was kissen who said it

[pseudo ember]

Hmm ok

[mint star]

it was mentioned in the dev blog with its concept art it’s been “upsized in weight”

[pseudo ember]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-jones-uzbek-gif-9108365450976190246

[scenic crystal]

👀

[pseudo ember]

7500kg Acro

[pseudo ember]

Water it looses but land Rex bullies it 3-4 crushes and it’s disabled

[scenic crystal]

Spino should be strong overall, Giga, and Acro should be on par with Rex. I don't see the point of adding more Dinos if they're already weaker than Rex, not because of the player's skill level. Right now, Rex is just a self-playing Dino. Dinos do everything for you. You kill almost everything, you catch up with the spikes on Stego, no problem. Pin = dead.

[pseudo ember]

It’s going to be strong rex is just the best at 1v1s even said by a dev

[scenic crystal]

So strong. That's why I'm waiting for kentro and if rex can pin kentro without any problems and not take damage then that's ridiculous

[pseudo ember]

99% sure it will take damage

[dusky surge]

i doubt it honestly

rex is designed to be weak against significantly larger creatures

spino is significantly larger

[pseudo ember]

Sbtj + fracture dmg on crush is 4500x3 13500 I don’t think spino will be bigger than that

[pseudo ember]

I wouldn’t say weak it just looses that stun animation after something gets hit by crush but they still get a small stun

[steep otter]

Tbh given how insane op rex current fracture values is they will break spinos in 4 crushes at most

They can break trikes is 20 seconds

Rex is overtuned

Unless they somehow make spino even more op

And spino wont be able to run from rexes also

[slim dragon]

I mean I guess anything loses if it just stands there and waits for the opponent to dish out its damage while doing nothing

[pseudo ember]

Spino will prob slow attack moving dino so juking won’t be that hard

[golden tapir]

use the water

ez

[steep otter]

Yup

[golden tapir]

problem with nerfing rex fracture is stego

if you nerf rex even further stego will demolish rex even more than it does now

[slim dragon]

You base this off nothing

[golden tapir]

stego is so broken its insane

[pseudo ember]

Concept arts and spino is likely going to be slow on land as a semi aquatic

[steep otter]

At miminum hes speed and stun tresholds needs adjustments

[golden coral]

Can't you adjust stego too then, so they keep the matchup but both being a bit nerfed from current

[golden tapir]

what do you mean by stun thresholds

[steep otter]

Rex should not gain more speed at prime and should not be able to stun targets larger them itself with crush

Or buff trike stun range, the better option

[golden tapir]

if something is 300kg bigger than rex he doesnt stun it, he just gives a 1 second stagger. this is so he has a chance against things like spino

[steep otter]

He can stun targets 1.15x times its size with crush, but tbh the better Option would be buffing trike stun range

Trike cant stun a 12.3 ton rex if he is 12.2 tons btw

[scenic crystal]

I was playing Stego and I had 65% growth and an adult Rex attacked me, I couldn't run away and I couldn't fight either because I got pinned to the ground and lost most of my HP + my leg broke, I only landed three hits and died if Rex didn't have the pin, it would have been different and the fight took just a few seconds

[slim dragon]

Concept art isn't an indicator of abilities, even less balance

Look, devs have said multiple times spino will be a force to be reckoned, and that all apexes will be able to put up a fight against each other

I'm not sure what makes you so deadset on believing rex will dominate for no reason

[golden tapir]

the max a 9.3 ton rex can stun is 9.6 tons. wheres this 1.15x coming from

[steep otter]

A 11.9 ton rex can stun a 12.5 ton trike

[scenic crystal]

• dinosaurs like Diblee can be removed from the game because they are also slow and cannot fight the Rex =dead

[steep otter]

This more of a trike issue them a rex issue

[golden tapir]

yeah trike def needs a buff in that aspect

[pseudo ember]

Buffing trike stun range and giving that standing flip back nerf Rex stun is unnecessary

[golden tapir]

you shouldnt be full prime just to stand a chance its not good

[steep otter]

Its better to buff trike yeah

[pseudo ember]

Trike is so bad as an apex

[steep otter]

Also apexes should not gain speed at eldrr

5ton rex is slower them a 12.3 ton rex btw

[slim dragon]

nothing should

[pseudo ember]

Everything shouldn’t beside anything under 100kg

[pseudo ember]

The elder weight gain in apexes is a bit too much and on some mid tiers

[pseudo ember]

It’s going to at least 50/50 to Rex but rex has most of advantages besides weight everything is sbtj tho +devs did say Rex will dominate in 1v1s

[pseudo ember]

Concept arts are sometimes an indicators take a look of Rex concept art

[slim dragon]

How can you say that when we don't know ONE thing about how spino will play out

[slim dragon]

You probably don't understand what concept art is
They don't make the rules

[pseudo ember]

It was pretty accurate

[slim dragon]

The concept art doesn't showcase abilities
It just shows rex biting things and doing headbutts

[pseudo ember]

Shows Rex crushing and pinning and being able to hold that Bary

[scenic crystal]

+acro which kills trike, camara can fight rex without any problem, he should

[slim dragon]

No, the concept art isn't a showcase for abilities. It's shown doing this because it looks cool and shows a brutal style of fighting, not because it means rex MUST have a pinning ability and the ability to hold barys

We also have concept art of carno pinning animals and omni climbing up trees

[pseudo ember]

I was just saying that this concept art and the Rex right now is almost identical of what it can do and spino is basically bary but just in a bigger weight class said by a dev btw and we have seen some of bary abilities in the dev blogs Bary will be a foundation for spino and SOME of its abilities 🥀

[pseudo ember]

Can’t wait for Acro

[pseudo ember]

@golden tapir i think it needs a slight recovery if it misses a powerswing

[golden tapir]

I agree

they can just swing too fast even after getting baited

[pseudo ember]

exactly and even if u bait a powerswing you can stil get hit

[pseudo ember]

i think a 1.75second window of recovery or even a 2 second recovery if it misses

that would be fair if they slow down rex tho

[astral sonnet]

When will the servers be back online?

[crystal stream]

Jst run away if you a allo

Pin is dumb tho

[torn egret]

Rex is also just too mobile rn. There’s almost no sparring that happens anymore

[viscid mica]

At the sizes he’s talking about he can’t murder sprint is faster

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message likely missed out on prime + stopped caring about diets

diets increase your speed quite a bit as gallimimus

[crystal stream]

Oh ok

[viscid mica]

if the % he gave are accurate of course

[golden tapir]

what sparring?

rex should never spar against a trike hes literally always at a disadvantage

spar needs a lot more work before it can be viable and actually interactive

[solid cloak]

Why did dondi decide to make ambush sprint not meet any requirements like legacy? Seems like a regression.

Can’t call it an ambush sprint if I can use it whenever I want. It’s just sprinting premium.

[limber delta]

The ‘I win chase for free’ button rex has for some reason:

[slim narwhal]

well if he cant spar trike is op asf

[frail imp]

@fringe knoll Any reason for the clown emoji?
Would be nice to get your thoughts instead of insults

@slim narwhal Wrong channel
The reason on why allo is excluded is because it makes sense that it can't.
Like I said in the post it's got large claws which can latch hard onto the preys skin, and with it's animation it's in a stance of where you can see it's got a firm grip.
Omni is small, light weight where it's claws and feet are not deep into the preys skin at all and can't go that deep so it makes sense that it can get knocked off, with trees and rocks.

[limber delta]

Allo shouldn’t even be allowed to pounce at all it is far too large to support its own weight off the ground no matter how strong it may be so no way you can use the ‘it makes sense’ argument when allo pouncing in general doesn’t make sense

Balance wise, allo’s pounce is the only one that needs nerfing, utah and troodon are fine because well they’re on utah and troodon, two completely fodder dinos

[frail imp]

I don’t understand how allo pounce does not make sense.
allo is an ambush predator, it needs a way to keep its prey locked when it gets near them.
if you see it you can just run away for things it ca pin solo.
Tbh I think we both know all mos pounce will never be removed because let’s be real the devs won’t do it, so I made a compromise with saying it drains a lot of stamina when bucking.

Also omni Isn’t a fodder dino it is very viable.

A creature of an allos size can decently grip and tear into its prey.

[limber delta]

I am talking about POUNCE not pin. Just nerf allo pounce IN GENERAL and make bucking the old, stam draining one.

Utah and troodon are ONLY viable in combat thanks to both pounce and pin, allo and rex have a million other things that not only makes them viable, but op.

[frail imp]

I agree that allo does not need pounce, I like the idea of the claw attacks and think that would make allo unique.
Do you agree with everything apart from the allo point?

[limber delta]

Eh, I think knocking dinos off shouldn’t be an automatic kill, there shouldn’t be a stun animation and the prey shouldn’t be able to immediately punish. It should simply force the pouncer to release, and give the prey 0.5s of ‘silence’ (kinda like cera vomit where you can move but can’t attack), ofc attacks used before the silence still go off, so prey can still predict the knock off.

I am however all for equality and all things considered allo and troodon should work like this too. Despite how strong allo pounce is.

And I agree bucking should be buffed, but in a different way, just needs reverting to its old stamina draining version

But I do agree that knocking stuff off can definitely be tuned in a way to be added back

Also off topic Rex is a bum that’s carried by dev glaze and needs its crush nerfed 14 times

[frail imp]

I agree with the second and third point, but not the first.
If I am ramming let's say an omni into a rock or a hard surface, it should get knocked off and stunned.
They can simply just jump off when I get near the rock/tree, simple, that's how it worked before.

[limber delta]

The problem is that in this game not only is combat filled with desync that caused utah to fall off in cases where it absolutely shouldn’t have, but also that beforehand, dinos were literally just camping said rocks and trees for over an hour, being completely untouchable because if the edge of your tail grazed the edge of a rock by a stego trotting near it you were immediately stunned for like 5 seconds, completely unable to do absolutely anything

A nearby tree should be an advantage, NOT an automatic win condition, that’s what caused everyone to hate them in the first place

Utah was one of the very first dinos released and is still completely washed by buggy, chopped combat mechanics such as knockdown. At the very least they shouldn’t instantly die for it.

[frail imp]

First you can't just say they should not be stunned because of desync, that is just a bug issue.
Second If they want to camp a tree/rock it is not an instant win condition. If they are camping they are in one place for a long period of time, they can't drink so they will need to get water at some point, and if something bigger see's it they can easily go and attack and get it out, and it's on the move again.
Third it isn't an automatic win condition as I just explained, there are pros and cons.
With what you are saying you should make omni not get stunned due to desync, but you should just fix desync.

[limber delta]

Desync isn’t a bug, it’s the inherent drawback of multiplayer interaction and ping, you can’t ‘fix’ it, and mechanics need to be tuned around it being in play, and most infact are! Such as stego’s absurd hitbox size, but pounce and pin aren’t for some reason.

Desync drastically favors large creatures over small ones, and small ones get absolutely zero compensation for getting one shot on tail hits 24/7.

Are you seriously advocating for not only waiting up to an hour just for a fight to continue, but also mixpacking to use larger creatures to counter campers? Because that’s what your argument implied considering utahs getting food shouldn’t rely on the luck of a draw of an apex appearing, chasing the prey out, and not just taking the free food for itself.

Because we tried that. We had a few guys with an alt account on a stego back when stegos were the strongest, just to counter campers. And yknow what, it worked perfectly! When our utah pack encountered a camping stego, we’d send our own to kill it lol. We might just go back to that if they allow rocks to stun again

[frail imp]

Alright I see what you mean with the desync, it isn't a bug and it's a pain but we can't build around an issue to solve it we just need to solve desync itself.
Idk where you got the Implication of mixpacking but it's called a third party.
For example a stego camping against a wall against troodon's, then a rex comes and attacks it.
What I was saying is that by being in one place and making a lot of noise, creatures are obviously going to notice that and come check it out, a negative to camping.
And there are many ways to flush out a camper, it isn't a instant win.

A third party and mixpacking are two completely different things.

[limber delta]

Third partying is luck based and gets your food stolen. So mixpacking would be the only solution for utahs against tree campers if one pounce meant death.

You CAN’T solve desync. Not in a multiplayer game. That’s how it works. Removing knock down is the solution to desync, bring it back, and you have to compensate buff pouncers (besides allo since it’s op)

[frail imp]

Alright with this line here "Third partying is luck based", A lot of the isle is luck based and people for example the troodons can spam a call in hopes of something coming.
Getting ai, finding food, finding teammates, growth matchups, there are so many things that are luck based so they can 100% be used in an argument.
Most people have fine Internet, we need to favour the majority and not a phew amount of people who don't have good wifi.

With getting your food stolen, it happens but there are always smth else around and for most finding food isn't hard.

[autumn zephyr]

You can't be serious one raptor deals 5000 damage per full stam damage pounce that thing needs turbo nerfs

[frail imp]

Tbh if they can be knokced off easily with rocks and trees it's fine.

[autumn zephyr]

The fact that u have to rely on a 50% chance rng is stupid

[frail imp]

Wdym what is chanced?

[autumn zephyr]

Afaik the way bucking works is the moment u start bucking there's ticks that have like a 20-30% chance each to dismantle ONE pouncer thats currently latched onto you

So you can either get them off instantly or never

[frail imp]

Bucking isn't chanced.
You do a 5 second animation and they are knocked off every time if you complete the animation.

The issue is that the stam of the pouncer drains barly any stam and 5 seconds is way to long, with the fact you can't attack.

[autumn zephyr]

That cannot be right I had the luck of getting stuff out of my back even after a second of bucking

[frail imp]

I play on oasis all the time and survival and that's how it works for me everytime.

Might be using the mutation.

[limber delta]

Dude desync still gets you one shot from a Bluetooth hit at 50ms this isn’t a ‘few’ issue 🫩

[autumn zephyr]

Yeah the old bucking was 100% not chanced tho it was a battle of stamina where bucking would drain your stamina and at least twice the ammount for the latched dino

[autumn zephyr]

The mutation that literally says "bucking has a higher chance of dismantling"?

[limber delta]

That’s why I said to buff bucking by reverting it to stam drain or did you not see that part???

[frail imp]

Like I said most people wifi is fine, so we should favour the little amount instead of the majourity?

[frail imp]

Yea I think

[limber delta]

You’re repeating your point without taking in what I’m telling you.

[prisma surge]

i think omni's pounce is a bit more rng with bucking than allo's from my tests

[frail imp]

Yes and that bucking should be brught back.

[autumn zephyr]

I didnt bother to read past that bro I aint reading allat 😭

[limber delta]

Tell me what ms do you think is ‘fine’? Give me a number.

[frail imp]

I would say 8/10

The game works fine for me and for most the game works well.

[limber delta]

8-10ms… you think 8-10 ping is a normal amount…

[autumn zephyr]

Most people play on 80 and above bro 😭

[frail imp]

Sure this isn't you you issue?, No offence

[limber delta]

Load into the isle and show ms

[frail imp]

Alright let me get this, you want to make it that when you get knocked off you don't get stunned because people have bad wifi?

[limber delta]

One of the many reasons that knocking off via trees/rocks shouldn’t stun if it gets added back is because the vast majority of people play on at least 50ms+ which is enough to cause them to get unfairly one shot, which should be kept to a minimum.

Ts guy really said 8-10ms is what most people play on

[frail imp]

But there is a difference in what I am saying and what you are saying.
The issue I speak of Affects Everyone, bad wifi or not.
Your issue is people who don't have good wifi and they can solve that issue themselves, I understand that sucks but we can't base it around people having bad wifi.
They can solve it themselfs, the devs can't fix that only them.

[frail imp]

Sure I may be wrong on that but In my Experience for 5 years most are fine.

[autumn zephyr]

Idk if u guys were there when it happened but raptors got a nerf to their knockdown duration which made them get up insanely hard, before that nerf nobody really complained about the stun because raptors would get up fairly quick, it was like a second or so and both the raptor had a chance to get away and the prey to kill the raptor for making a mistake, if they bring that back both of your requests would be met

[limber delta]

Utahs shouldn’t be getting one shot from full health for landing a pounce on someone that has stood next to a tree for 45 minutes

This shouldn’t even be a hot take

[autumn zephyr]

Depends on the prey bro if its a stego its their right, but like I said most of the times raptors could get out of the way in time

[frail imp]

Omnis are very agile and fast, it's hard in the first place to even knock them over, which makes it rewarding.
When they are pounced on you and you are going to a tree/rock they just can jump off, simple, Every good player does this.

If a maia knocks them over they can't just walk it off and get back up instantly.

[autumn zephyr]

Rool's talking about players that are already camping next to a rock or a tree tho, which is a valid point, but even then if the stego wasnt fast enough he would miss most of the times, and the raptor usually had time to get away

[frail imp]

Yea and I explained that there are pros and cons to camping, is isn't a instant win.

There are many ways to flush out a camper.

[limber delta]

Stego shouldn’t even have the time to land a hit on an utah that successfully hit a pounce that’s why this mechanic was bs and deserved to get removed. Stego didn’t need skill, aim or timing, it just crammed its fat ahh into a rock for 45 minutes until either utahs got bored, starved to death, or died trying to fight something that deserves to actually be fightabke

[autumn zephyr]

I wouldnt say many but there are ways to do it

[limber delta]

Yeah we had to resort to stegos on alt accounts bro and you think that’s a reasonable measure?

[frail imp]

Waiting for water to drain, third party threat looming with all the noise attracting attention, most get desperate if you just stay long enough and try and run out to escape.

If you stand your ground and wait they will come out eventully.

[frail imp]

What does this have to do with anything I said?

[autumn zephyr]

Waiting on thirst/food isnt a strategy, stegos can graze and they re still at a massive advantage near water, and before rex got added there was no 3rd party that could threaten a stego

[limber delta]

Anything less simply wasn’t viable. We aren’t waiting 45 minutes for a stego to move 100 meters to the nearest water (that we can’t even approach btw bc deinos :D), or for another stego to arrive

And best case scenario? Nothing nearby, not even water, and utahs managed to stock up? The stego would bait hard logging, so you had to take a 50/50 on whether it would disappear or kill someone. So DUH we’re gonna switch dinos to kill them it’s what they deserved for abusing a bs mechanic.

[frail imp]

Waiting on water to drain is absolutely a method to get them out, they need to get it at some point and i've done it many times.
"they re still at a massive advantage near water" sure it's an advantage but there are also cons like a croc attacking it forcing it to get out.
" there was no 3rd party that could threaten a stego" This is irrelevant, we are talking about now not the past.

[limber delta]

Bro actually thinks deinos do anything to stegos

[autumn zephyr]

Croc still aint a very threatening 3rd party, and im talking about the past because thats when we last had the knockdown on trees mechanic available, but even if we had it now, lets say a rex comes and kills the stego as a 3rd party, what do you do now? you fight the rex which is an even harder fight and can pull the same tactic the stego pulled? its also not a very viable strategy

[frail imp]

They are a threat if it is water camping. It does not need to come out and ram it, it can wait for the moment to chip in damage and distract the stego so the omni can go for a quiclk pounce and jump off.

[limber delta]

Deino 2 seconds after ‘chipping in damage’ then being forced to turn around with its abysmal turn face first next to a power swing stego:

[autumn zephyr]

Bro you dont have to send a reaction image everytime 😭

[limber delta]

I gotta get the point across twin

[frail imp]

that method is annoying to an omni, I get it, but it makes sense factually.
If you get slammed against a wall you should get knocked off, and due to the collision and they force of impact you can't just get up insantly.

[limber delta]

W on this tho

[frail imp]

It's still a threat and if you are camping in the first place you are not really good at the game, again it can be done.

[limber delta]

You know irl the utah would just feel the pressure and quickly let go and immediately run, not sit around on the ground squirming like a limbless dog for 5 seconds?

[autumn zephyr]

If im being honest im fine with the tree knockdowns staying gone, but they definitelly gotta nerf raptor damage and rework/buff the hell out of bucking

[limber delta]

Dude I’ve literally seen prime Rexes kill 5 allos then proceed to camp, skill or how op your Dino is has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it.

[autumn zephyr]

But I wouldnt complain if they brought it back either as long as they revert the knockdown durations

[frail imp]

This makes no sense.
If a stego is slamming a raptor against a wall, and if it does not jump off, It would land on the ground and the pain of the Impact would cause it to get stunned and it can't just walk off the pain and the imjuries of the force of the impact against a hard surface.

[limber delta]

Stego could be a super saiyan capable of flying and shooting lasers out its eyes and their players would still stand next to a tree as soon as they feel any pressure whatsoever

[frail imp]

It honestly seems to me you just hate stego and want it nerfed because you don't like it.
With what I am saying I am including all species.

[autumn zephyr]

That would require them to add speed affecting the knockdown, because if a stego is just camping and turning around in the rock to get them down it wouldnt be such insane impact you know? Id respect it if they were full sprinting but that wasnt the case most of the time

[limber delta]

I am referring to any large species. Stego came into conversation because it was the first and the main dino that camped vs utahs (as no others existed)

[limber delta]

Yeah this, 99% of the time the prey isn’t even running at something they just waddle around near it and the utah falls off despite not even touching the tree

[frail imp]

Sure I can actually see your point there, I would not mind that and it makes sense.
But do you think an omni should be able to phase threw a rock?

[limber delta]

That’s how it works currently and beyond bucking needing buffs, it works completely fine.

[autumn zephyr]

If it was me developing the game I could overlook this as long as it makes sense for what I want to do with the game, but this decision is entirely up to the devs, if they wanna add the knockdowns, they should also work on it so its not bs, if they dont wanna bother with it thats fine too

[limber delta]

Utah also needs less damage and more bleed, but that’s another topic.

[frail imp]

That isn't how it works currently.
No matter what you do a rock or a tree won't get them off.
and yea bucking needs a buff we can agree there.

[autumn zephyr]

A buff you mean XD

[limber delta]

Yes that’s my point they don’t currently get knocked off and it works completely fine balance wise. Only allo is op

[frail imp]

Ohn yea mb 😭

[autumn zephyr]

Dare I say allo isnt even that busted, rex is 10x more of a problem and I havent been able to enjoy the game as much since

[limber delta]

I think both are op but rex moreso

Rex>Stego>Trike>Allo in terms of how op they are (not physical power, but overall viability)

[frail imp]

Alright before I get into allo being "op" how is it fair on the other end?
If I am a maia and omni are on me, bucking is pointless and they neutral does a massive amount of damage, what do I do?

[limber delta]

Rex mains will unironically argue a 57km/h juve one shotting full grown low tiers is balanced

[limber delta]

That’s a bucking issue and damage being overtuned issue, both I’ve said need fixing.

[autumn zephyr]

If I were to rank Id say its rex>stego>allo>trike, trike's viability entirely depends on rex since its faster and still strong enough to take it in a fight most of its lifetime (excepting the growth spurts)

[frail imp]

Sure I can agree with that.

Alright how is allo op?
I am not an allo main and I never really play it so explain please?

I understand it's stats but I want to hear why

[limber delta]

Bucking needs to be reverted to stam drain (this is a buff), and utah needs less damage and more bleed

Both of these can be done, without adding knock downs, and be balanced

[autumn zephyr]

Rex mains will look you in the eye and tell you trike should lose a 1v1 most of the time

[limber delta]

Every complaint you have about utah, multiply it tenfold, that’s allo.

[frail imp]

With the Implementation of the momentum of the force while knocking them off sure I can agree with this.

[autumn zephyr]

I agree with this

[frail imp]

No can you please just say aspects of it that are "op"

I want to understand the logic before I make a point.

[autumn zephyr]

It has a longer range with the dash, it deals more damage and more bleed, it slows down prey a lot because of its weight and its seemingly harder to get off with bucking for some reason

Also theres still some trees that are still able to knock raptors down (they're not very common though), they dont work on allo

But Im pretty sure allo wouldnt be such a problem either if they revert bucking and buff it significantly

[limber delta]

Okay let’s go into it then,

First allo isn’t even that hard to grow, it has a mid-range growth time, is easy to get diet on, and is strong in combat while growing. So any potential arguments about its adult being op is actually balanced because it has to grow, isn’t true.

Second, it has one of the highest dps in the entire game, as a bleeder. A very strong bleeder at that.

It can pin the majority of the roster with a DASH, and instantly kill them in one hit via this. There is no drawback to this, it has very low wind-up and even missing has very little end lag.

It’s incredibly fast, especially for its size, dibble is pretty much extinct rn because of allo (and rex) running it down with speed and killing it.

If it doesn’t pin you? It’ll do an absurd amount of damage and bleed with pounce, but unlike utah, is so tanky that pouncing isn’t even high risk, if a stego hits it on the way out, who cares?

Unlike utah, it’s not easy to watercamp one either, as, again, they’re very tanky. They can afford to take a hit if it means successfully landing two. And it’s also easier for them to swim back onto land if they do fall.

And because they’re so heavy, it is incredibly easy for them to pin large targets in groups for an easy kill. I actually like this, it gives larger dinos something to fear other than themselves, but allo has no drawbacks to make this a trade-off of any kind, it just makes allo even better than it already is.

[autumn zephyr]

As a dibble enjoyer trust me they did not go extinct because of allos, im complaining about rex for a reason 😭

[limber delta]

As an allo duo we see any solo dibble as a free meal, I think you just haven’t seen many

[autumn zephyr]

A solo dibble cant do much against 2 allos just as how a solo trike cant do much against 2 rexes, but in a 1v1 or if theres more dibbles allo simply doesnt stand a chance, its not agile enough, trust me I fought even prime allos as full adult dibble, the problem is that you can so very easily instantly die to rexes, because if you dont see them coming from very far away, you're basically dead, they can run you down with 15 seconds of being 6 km/h faster than you

[limber delta]

But to conclude: We have an incredibly fast, easy to grow mid tier, with incredibly high dps AND bleed, a safe dash pounce that easily pins, that can’t easily be camped against, bucked or punished, that gets diet easily and is strong in combat at all growth stages, oh and it has pretty good stamina too.

[autumn zephyr]

Your only hope as a dibble against a rex is that you are able to juke its crush (or hope they miss it) and gain enough distance in the process, otherwise you are 90% of the times DEAD

[limber delta]

And to compare, utah has a dozen bugs that cause an immediate game over that haven’t been fixed since the inception of the game, and dies to a light breeze, and you want the frailest thing to get stunned for doing the one thing it’s good at

PACHY. PACHY IS A MORE VIABLE PLAYABLE THAN UTAH. AND IT STILL DOESNT HAVE ITS LARGER TARGET STUN BACK YET

[autumn zephyr]

Meanwhile allo gets to float in the air being completely invulnerable and STILL doing damage 😭

[limber delta]

Fact status: True

[autumn zephyr]

That bug is annoying ngl

[autumn zephyr]

Dont diss my boy pachy he deserves it after years of being carno fodder

[limber delta]

I am slandering utah via proxy of somehow being WORSE than pachy 😭😭😭

[autumn zephyr]

Yeah I get that but pachy aint fodder anymore, I'd even say its at least an A tier, its really strong and viable rn

[frail imp]

1. Everything in the game is easy to grow and getting prime is easy. allos growth is on the same plate as everything else because ai and food in general is easy.
2. sure it's got high dps but there are a lot of other things in the game that do as well that counter allo like maia, omni with it's neutral pounce, rex, stego, dibble, dilos in packs and even allos against allos. they are also designed to be bleeders that's it hole thing due to it having razer sharp claws and teeth which are make for ripping and tearing.
3. I don't get this here you said you are fine with pin and wanted it's pounced removed. in order for it to actually pin something it needs to get close and if the allo is spotted, the prey can easily flee. it needs a way to keep it's prey when it catches it as a reward to getting the jump on it, but I do agree that it should have more of a wind up and be punished for failing a pounce/dash.
4. the allo is not Extremely fast most things can run from it, tracking is a different topic. with dibble there are more Options than be in the open alone, dibble in numbers are very strong and if you are alone as one you should play it safe and be in foliage or an area where you can hide, and a 1v1 against dib and allo, the dib has a very good chance. if the dib get's spotted by two allos, that's just Unlucky, You should be more aware and watch where you are.
5. It's damamge is fine just reduce the speed of it's bite and the damage will work out. makes no sense it bites that fast, and allo is a slow swimmer and it drains a lot of stam.
6. with the allo water camping in this scenario You are talking about things like omni that can't just rush in like a maia or dib, that is just a bad matchup.

[limber delta]

Sorry I love pachy but I am not touching that fraud until it gets its larger target stun back💔

[limber delta]

You never actually wanted to learn what makes allo op you just wanted to argue.

I’m done.

[autumn zephyr]

Bro trust me pachy is not what you think it is anymore its really good, you can literally knock down fg carnos as a prime pachy

The 200 kgs buff made it an actual good dinosaur, sure it cant 1v1 ceras but its not like it was supposed to anyway

[frail imp]

Wdym I listed you points and make valid points against them.
This isn't a bad faith argument I just make points against what you had.
If you don't have any points or you don't want to discuss this just say that respectfully Instead of just saying I'm arguing with you?

[limber delta]

Dude you literally asked me yourself what makes allo op I thought you were trying to learn not glaze allo

Someone else talk to him, I’m done.

[frail imp]

No Like I said before I want to Understand why you think it's op then break down what you are saying with my points.

You put Everything you think then I do the same.

[limber delta]

I am not going to argue with you about whether allo is op or not. It is not a fruitful investment.

[frail imp]

I can see your offended or can't just respectfully say your done.
Be more mature c'mon I've been nice this hole time.

[frail imp]

This was not an argument it was a debate but I see you took it the wrong way because I disagree with you.

[limber delta]

No, I actually feel pity. It is literally not worth investing time to talk to an allo defender. This isn’t a matter of disagreeing it’s a matter of you asking me to teach you because you in your own words said you aren’t an allo main.

[limber delta]

.

[limber delta]

.

[autumn zephyr]

Chill bro he just said he aint an allo main not that he has no idea what allo does

[frail imp]

So you have made no points and are just using Insults.
I play against allos all the time and I play many PVP servers.
I know allos stats very well and how it works and play it myself time to time.
I don't need to main ir nor play it a lot to understand it's stats.

[dusky surge]

i mean, pachy USED to be awful before the elder update where it got increased to 700kg and got a very good elder state

that weight buff alone made its sub exceptionally viable, its adult no longer fodder and basically launched it back into relevancy

[autumn zephyr]

THATS WHAT IMMM SAYINNNN

[limber delta]

Ik but bro I explained why allo’s op because he ‘wants to hear why’ then goes out of his way to argue to each of my points why it’s not 💔

[frail imp]

Would you like to breakdown how I am wrong or say I'm arguing or bicking?

[frail imp]

I'm not arguing I just disagree with you, I have been nice this hole time.

You taking it the wrong way.

[limber delta]

None of this is true btw

[frail imp]

I am giving constructive critism.

[frail imp]

Alright why?

[limber delta]

Will you actually accept my answer or just refute it

[frail imp]

Alright before we continue I am being nice.
Just beacuse I disagree with you and not a clapping seal and not appeasing to your logic has obviously offended you or made you annoyed.
Bro I don't need to agree with you, it's just called a good fatih debate.

I'm doing this beacuse I love this game and want to see it Improved.

[autumn zephyr]

Cmon guyss just talk it out make love not war

[frail imp]

Yea man Like I've been nice this hole time.

[limber delta]

Yeah I expected as much. Could’ve just opened with ‘allo isn’t op’ instead of getting me to think you were actually interested in learning why because you wanted to “hear why”. Wouldn’t have actually invested my time and effort explaining it to you if I knew you were just gonna disagree with everything I taught you.

[autumn zephyr]

U mind if I give my opinion on what u said about allo?

[frail imp]

Tbh Let me talk to rool and I will gladly talk to you 🙂

[limber delta]

Please do bro I don’t want to invest anything else into this

[limber delta]

I’m going dnd, gn

[autumn zephyr]

I dont think he tried to trick u man u just read into it wrong its not like he gets anything out of arguing lmao

[autumn zephyr]

Aw man :( gn I guess

He had a teto flair while I had a miku flair and he just left like that man :(

[frail imp]

The reason on why I wanted to hear why you think it's op is to understand your logic and already get the answers I need Instead of just asking you what you think, when Instead you said everything you don't like to where I could reply to your points in a constructive way.
I appreciate you explaining why but I Don't need to agree with you, again I am not going to blindly agree with you and instead give me reason on why I think you are wrong in a constructive way.
This was a good faith topic but you have taken this the wrong way, All I done was just reply to what you said and said things you don't like.

This does not offend me but a lot of people just either can't admit they are wrong or just say they are over with the conversation in a good way, Instead resorting to insults and making up lies beacuse they can't admit they are wrong.

I have agreed with you and changed some of my thoughts but you can't do the same.

[autumn zephyr]

I dont think hes gonna read all that, not now at least

[frail imp]

Does not really matter, I have won the allo debate since this person can't give any points Instead of just Using insults and making up lies.

No issue if you are wrong but rool can't just say it, I don't mind being wrong either.

[limber delta]

ok i took a breather and im back also wtf is this

[limber delta]

this isn't even a debate btw

[frail imp]

you said you were done but I am happy to continue.

[limber delta]

this is simply a list of points

I am not 'debating'

[frail imp]

It was until you were taking it the wrong we but you can make points on what I said.

[frail imp]

Wdym?
We have done that this hole time?

[limber delta]

no i mean it's literally not a debate

i debated you on the utah stuff but you asked why allo was op and i told you why, I'm not debating whether it's op or not

[frail imp]

I don't Understand I said before you typed that paragraph that I wanted to hear why it's op and that I would make my point after.

then you said it?

[frail imp]

.

[limber delta]

yea but like what point

[frail imp]

Because I have a different point than you?

[limber delta]

no? I'm just saying allo's op and why

[autumn zephyr]

You guys are not gonna go anywhere lmao, just talk about it at this point

[limber delta]

hey again btw nice flare, didnt even notice till u pointed it out

[frail imp]

Your not making sense.
I said before you typed the paragraph that I would make my point after you layed out what you think.
You could have said before you typed the paragraph I don't want talk about this and instead just say it and that's it, but you then went on to talk about it further.

[autumn zephyr]

I noticed right as u left myself lmao

[frail imp]

I am trying to rool to reply to what I said instead of trying to weasel out of it.

[limber delta]

I don't get what you mean

idk what im trying to weasel out of tbh

[frail imp]

Your not making any points your just trying to rage bait.

It says what it says.

[limber delta]

???

[frail imp]

Bro I said before you typed your points about allo that I would reply to them after.

[limber delta]

yea?

[autumn zephyr]

He wants you to reply to the points he made about allo, just do it atp man

[frail imp]

Made that clear as day

[limber delta]

oh well in that case I don't think he's right

[autumn zephyr]

He wants you to reply to THESE ^

[frail imp]

Then say why, can you please breakdown what I said?

If you can't then you are wrong since you can't actully prove me wrong.

[limber delta]

yea so basically allo is easy to grow, very fast, has huge dps, very tanky, has crazy unfair utility, and is strong at every growth stage of the game

[frail imp]

Yes and I reply to each one explaining why you are wrong.

[limber delta]

but I'm not wrong, that's just what allo is

I was just debunking your claims

[frail imp]

Bro all you have done is say your points, then I said my Points on how they are wrong, then you just copy and paste what you said before.

[limber delta]

no? I don't get what you mean

[frail imp]

Alright to all those points, here is my points proving them wrong.
Now say why they are wrong.

you are giving one word answers.

[limber delta]

because not everything in the game is easy to grow, duh?

have you looked at trike?

[autumn zephyr]

How im feeling w u guys

[frail imp]

Everything is easy.

[limber delta]

explain why

[frail imp]

Trike can bushcamp in a patrol, active or not

Mz zones.

[limber delta]

gets spotted once and dies, struggles with diet, takes 12h+, and is loud af while also being slow af

and you think allo is comparable? genuine answer

[frail imp]

Prime is easy and can get it done when young, if you die along the way it is easy growth to get bcak, when you are big you can bushcamp.

[frail imp]

You understand at a young age you don't lose much so it won't be a bother starting over.
When you are let's say 30% you can defend yourself, camping is an option, might be one no one likes but it's survival.

I stand by everything isn't hard to grow.

[limber delta]

trike dying at 20% is equivalent to losing a prime utah

trike can't defend itself until prime

most things are hard to grow compared to allo.

[frail imp]

As an apex it's more difficult to grow but for what it is it isn't that hard, easy.
trike can 100% defend itself below prime wdym?
It can 1 shot and to a lot of damage below that growth?

[limber delta]

gets spotted by one of the most common predators (rex) and it becomes literal fodder

gets spotted by 2 of any carnivore and it also becomes fodder

@faint robin would know a lot about this

[frail imp]

I've grown trikes many times and it isn't that hard for what you get.
There are a lot more then rexes and allos and if yk what you are doing you can easily avoid them.
There are more skills then fighting, stealth and knowing where not to go is also one.

I can see your point with diets but that's it.

[autumn zephyr]

I'll just give my take on this anyway

1. as an unofficial server player (specifically petits), growing is significantly harder for everyone, but allo juvis still have the combat advantage over most juvis in the game as they deal insane bleed and damage with the pounces
2. omni does not counter allo, rex, dibble and stego can be avoided, they cannot avoid allo though, and they are a threat for them, dilos are the worst carnivore viability wise rn so not a lot of people play em, allo vs allo cant be an argument as we re discussing its viability
3. they can just give it a mechanic similar to pouncing but without being as safe, something similar to crush that deals bleed instead of fractures, as for fleeing this entirely depends on the species but like he said, sub allo outspeeds most herbivores while also being strong enough to kill them
4. see point 3, but I do agree that dibbles dont struggle because of allos currently
5. the pounce could use a little less damage, but yeah the bite speed has to be nerfed
6. imma be honest idk what ur tryna say here

My point is that allo is extremely strong, could still use nerfs, but still falls just short of that "overpowered" state

What currently is "op" about allo can be fixed by taking a look at its juvi/sub stage, nerfing the damage and bleed numbers a lil bit (not too much), and fixing the whole bucking ordeal

[dusky surge]

honestly, i think allo's broken factor is mainly grapple. grapple is disgusting atm, it genuinely makes allo so oppressive in how much stuff it can take down

[frail imp]

1. I play Unofficial myself a lot (Nerf and oasis), Growing can be different for many things but overall if yk what you are doing, either as a carni or herb getting what you need isn't that hard. With the Pounce it does do a good amount of bleed and damage but there are also other aspects of it that are bad, for example when it is latched on it cannot move, hence it can be easily knocked off and stunned. Imo most are just bad and don't know how to actually handle and allo, since allo is easy to use but not op.
2. I would not call omni a counter but it's a threat, maia is it counter which works quite well. sure it can avoid a lot but so can a lot ot things like maia, dilo, omni, pachy etc but the thing with allo is that if you see it you can easilt run away. with what you said about dilo it can take it down with a pack if they know what to do, and allo v allo is 100% a valid points since allo cannis are a thing.
   Pouncing Imo is not Op, I have said why, but I would not mind the removal of pouncing and just pinning, but like a said before the devs will never remove it so I am being realistic. if the species is not designed to flee the species that just sucks, dib for example but again if the dibs is hiding in foliage or watching where it's going, that is a skill that can help it not run into them and 2v2 with dibs and allo is a fair fight.
3. Sure idm this
4. My points are clear, but I get what you mean.

[autumn zephyr]

Is grapple the pouncing of multiple allos or?

[dusky surge]

yea, it's the multiple allo pounce

it can take down animals up to 4x of the allo's combined weight. 2 allos can effectively pin every creature in the game, prime or otherwise

yes, they need to have low stam/health/bleed, but that's still insane

[crystal stream]

Is it just me or allos pounce sometimes shows you get latched on only for it not to be this has gotten me killed so may times while practicing with allo

Ok it’s prolly a bug but omg it’s annoying as hell

[autumn zephyr]

1. Some encounters are just inevitable, its in the nature of the game, and if you make the simple mistake of allowing an allo to pounce on you since they re very quiet as juvis, your chances of winning that fight become very low because it deals a MONSTROUS ammount of bleed and damage as a juvi, im serious, that needs nerfed asap, but other than that juvi allo aint allat much, as for knocking off, no. They cant, not now.
2. agreed up to the allo v allo point, if the creature's only real threat is itself and is otherwise thriving then that means the species is overpowered, the fact that only maias can reliably deal with allos out of everyone mentioned (raptors might be a threat but not a huge one, id say they re about as threatening to an allo as a deino is to a stego on land) can only mean that allo is too strong defensively (also dilo venom aint working so they re really bad rn, they are also outclassed by other carnivores anyway so yet again, nobody plays em)
   As for pouncing, I agree, like I said what is currently too strong about it can be fixed w just a small number reduction and fixing bucking, and dare I say dibbles actually have the advantage in a 2v2, as they can damage pouncing allos and are agile enough to not leave an opening for them if they play carefully

[autumn zephyr]

And yeah thats also bs and must get gone

the 4x thing is def too much, but I dont mind 2 allos grappling stuff up to 5 tons like it does normally (afaik)

[frail imp]

1. Alright sure Idm nerfing it's pounce, it's got other deadly attacks like it's rapid bit (Should not be as fast but that's how it is now), claw attacks and alt bite, and with the addition of old bucking that would make allo more balanced.
2. I never said in my reply that allo is an allo's only threat I said maia, dilo, omni are also a danger to it, even crocs in water are since they need to drink or cross rivers.
   Maias are not the only ones, dibs in duo's or more, dilos, and omnis (A neutral pounce can kill an allo with stam left over). with species are designed to not take on an allo you can just not fight them atm, allo apart from croc is the second highest carni, with the additon of more species down the line allo will have more big threats, but as it is now allo is at the top due to just what it is.

[autumn zephyr]

1. exactly, but the fast bite has gotta go too, it should bite as fast as a cera imo
2. I should clarify that the whole "if the creature's only real threat is itself and is otherwise thriving then that means the species is overpowered" bit is just that, an IF, because allos would rather group up anyway, but my point is that neither dilo nor omni are as dangerous as they should be specifically because allo can just pin them both, I know omni can pounce in the meantime but they wont be able to deal enough damage to threaten the allo in the meantime, ur glazing the neutral pounce too much xd
   dibbles cant be anymore of a threat than a rex if they cant reliably keep up with them, if allo can control the fight, then its not a true threat, but if im being honest thats not exactly a balance issue as it is more of a lack of competition issue, once alberto or some other mid tier carnivore gets added then allo is not gonna be this "safe" to play as anymore (and ofc nerf the juvi/sub stage dmg)

[frail imp]

2. I can get omni not being a threat when they are in numbers but dib and maias in numbers are a threat to it. Most things can just run, there are other options than just fight.
   You are focussing to much on omni and not everything else.
   And with dibbles they don't need to cacth up to them, they can stand there ground and if the allo runs away and flees, that's the dibs win, the allo lost the hunt, all fight's don't end in death.
   Here is also a video of a neutral pounce with current bucking with an omni v allo, I am not glazing it is very powerful.

https://youtu.be/u_3L5ctYkSI?si=5MjgDj9FnoDNGwJ5

[autumn zephyr]

I dont think we have the same definition for threat, if an allo can just avoid the dibble then that means its life is not in danger unless it engages, therefore not a threat, a true threat is something that can kill you, not necessarily beat you, I agree that dibbles beat allos but they cant run them down so they can escape with their life, im focusing on omni because its the only thing aside from maia that can both catch up and deal life threatening damage

[frail imp]

Alright I see what you mean with threat with dibbles and I agree with you there.
Omni's are a threat to an solo allo with the neutral pounce but a duo of allos are powerful and the only threat is a maia and another allo pair, but that argument can be solved with the addition of new species like bary or kentro.

[autumn zephyr]

Neither bary nor kentro will do anything ab allo bro, we need alberto or something similarly sized, kentro im sure will be able to eitger defend itself or just run

[dusky surge]

i think allo's only true threat that is CONSISTENTLY worrying is sub/prime rexes

[autumn zephyr]

Also the raptor is using the damage pounce in the video, not the neutral pounce

[dusky surge]

also yea, kentro will likely be difficult for allo to hunt because spikes make it near impossible to pounce, but i doubt it's going to be able of actually chasing down and killing allos consistently

[autumn zephyr]

Sub rexes ehhhh I can see it, but its a skill matchup before it gets to the point where the sub rex cant catch up anymore, as with prime rex, thats a whole 'notha beast, that thing needs its speed and ambush speed nerfed asap

[dusky surge]

i mean, if prime rex is slower than adult rex, it's honestly fine

murdersprint directly scales with base sprint speed

[frail imp]

bary would be in the same tier as it and we don't know what it can do yet, it can be so I am saying it might, but with kentro on the other hand can actuly be a danger to it, devestating bleed and can run off where I good player can bleed out an allo.

[dusky surge]

no, bary is carno/cera sized, not allo sized

[frail imp]

Alright sure I may be wrong with the video but neutral with it draining barly any stam and doing good damage and the fact trees/rocks don't work yea imo it is powerful.

[eager saddle]

Yeah cuse it would make up for that in other stats like weight and biteforce

[autumn zephyr]

Bary is 100% at least a ton smaller than allo, he isnt a threat to it, as for kentro its either gonna outrun allo or pull a dibble and defend itself nicely, not both

[frail imp]

Sure I can see bary not working with that.

[frail imp]

I can see what you mean but we don't even know what in store for it yet, better wait for it's release and then see.

With kentro.

[autumn zephyr]

They have to either reduce the ammount or the duration, its too much of a boost, putting aside the fact that prime rex is faster, an adult rex is still too fast for any mid tier herbivore to reliably escape

[autumn zephyr]

True, cant wait for it either im 100% gonna main bary no matter what, im a sucker for semi aquatics (croc is pretty much fully aquatic so it dont count and beipi is just a spectator mode)

[frail imp]

Alright so I am happy that we found middle ground and can end this is a constructive way unlike roor.

It was nice talking to you but it is late for me, I hope you have a great day/night!

[autumn zephyr]

You too man take care, and the rool side diss was uncessary tho xd

[frail imp]

Tbh I was being nice the hole time while roor could not just be polite, had to acknowledge you have the decency to admit when your wrong and just being respectful.

[autumn zephyr]

I mean yes I can admit when im wrong but I wasnt necessarily wrong in this debate I never said allo is outright broken, just very strong

[frail imp]

What I meant by you can admit when you are wrong is for example with Kentro where you said what you think it will be then I said we both don’t know so we can wait and see until then and you agreed with what I said.

There are others points but there’s not need to go into it now.

[autumn zephyr]

True

[steep otter]

Likely will be a stego V rex situation, despite being much smaller them allo kentro will likely still stun it and deal massive bleed

[autumn zephyr]

Maybe, but kentro also had a leaner build than stego so it wouldnt be too crazy to see it outrun an allo

[steep otter]

Maybe yeah or have a similar speed, 39km

[frail imp]

@autumn zephyr #balance-feedback message Here are some updates of things that Changed my mind with things that you said.

[crystal stream]

This might be a horrible take but even though allos pounce is a buggy ugly mess esp with pin but it’s really important to allos kit mainly for the fact once you latch onto something you dont have to worry about getting hit by the anima your latched on mainly Stego and dibble without it going in with allo although possible would be extremely difficult and borderline impossible if the other player is good enough

Because most playables can just wait for you to pass the other side and then destroy you

Not to mention the boost it gets although looks goofy is also very important to help allo get into places that would otherwise be impossible depending on the prey

This is more regarding adult allo tho

[autumn zephyr]

Aight aight looks okay, id still preffer the momentum based knockdown tho if they were to add it back (even though that has a very low chance of happening), and making allo's mechanic similar to crush but dealing bleed instead of fractures

(That has a very low chance of happening too but hope dies last)

[frail imp]

The reason on why I never put the momentum Idea is because it will just never happen, and with that logic allo can't be knock off due to the fact the prey would not be bale to run so people would be turned off by that, even if new bucking would fix that they would still complain so just removing the pounce or debuffing it is a good compromise.

@sudden reef With your Suggestion I think you are beating up the wrong bush with cera needing a buff and should Instead saying that Allo should get a nerf.
Cera against most things is very Viable/powerful Like maia, dibble, omni, dilo, pachy, carno and a pack if even able to take on stegos,rexes and trikes.
With allo it's just a counter a skilled cera (Seen it many times) can beat an allo.
The reason on why I think allo should be nerfed is due to the fact that is simply good in to many ways like biting speed, bleed, being able to pounce/pin, high dps and health.
All of these things should not be in playable and barly anything can take on more than 1 allo with maia being it's only threat.

[sudden reef]

Teno cera carno shouldnt be fighting adult allos anyway

The difference being cera cant outrun them for the majority of its life and so just dies

And yes i have beaten adult ceras as prime cera but thats not the point

[frail imp]

Cera has other ways to escape an allo like it's swim speed, good stam management and it can get away if it knows what it's doing.

[sudden reef]

I agree but that doesnt fit with ceras supposed role

Either way i think body buffed should be reworked to become more useful

[frail imp]

Body buff is very good, I don't understand how if cera is weak to one thing then it needs changed when it is very powerful against alot of other things.

Dilo is weak to carno should we buff carno?

[sudden reef]

You mean dilo

[frail imp]

Cera being outclassed by allo is just a counter, sucks but that's the dynamic.

[frail imp]

Wdym

[sudden reef]

Im not implying cera ahould be buffed to win

If you read what i said properly

[frail imp]

With the Suggestion you made you want cera to be buffed because it can be killed by an allo easily?

A buff implies that it makes it more prone to win.

that's what the point of them is for, like a nerf being added to make something weaker.

[sudden reef]

If you read what i said youd know i never mentioned anything about cera winning against allo

I literally say it shoulsnt

If you read the suggestion properly

I said it should have more of a deterrent

A lion wont bother killing a porcupine because the risk is not worth the reward

[frail imp]

My mistake with reading it wrong but Cera is fine the way it is, it can be killed by a lot of the roster and isn't what is was before the HT update.

@sudden reef Really needed to put that there? I made a mistake.

[sudden reef]

Its not for you lol

Dw, its just in general lol

[frail imp]

Alright ig

[sudden reef]

Because if people do think im talking about cera winning i want them to understand it isnt

[frail imp]

yea no problem I just thought you were being rude but it's all good.

[sudden reef]

No no no, i respect your view and you are entitled to it

[vale brook]

i like the cerato suggestion icl

i think it could maybe use some nerfs but not without defensive additions like what was stated

[sudden reef]

I should say rework rather than buff tbh

I do think if cera could smell bodies faster and maybe even how big they are it would give body buff some use

Because its vital piece to its kit which literally never sees the any use

[limber delta]

about your suggestion I just think cera needs to be faster than allo so it can escape but not beat one

but yea your reasoning is right

absolutely insane allo can just run down cera

(also giving growing ceras more speed will help them traverse the map looking for bodies to scavenge)

[noble hull]

The flying reptile I can never remember the name of needs a huge buff, it takes way to long to Regan stamina and consistently get food

[viscid mica]

Um…. Ceras win 1v1 equal grow %

I’ve never ever lost to a allo if I’m the same grow or peak prime

You severely out damage them

Allo and cera are same speed rn and cera has double the stamina allo does

So as long as you start running before they are physically on top of you, your fine

If you let them get that close that’s on you

[limber delta]

yeah no

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

Not charge bite maxing at 5x damage

Add good mutations give or take 800 per chargebite if you know when max hits smh

[viscid mica]

Ceras alittle over tuned atm it doesn’t need more buffs rn just seems weak because Rex is op and allos bite at the speed o sound so newer/ok cera players can’t really handle em

[cosmic pelican]

Allo can just stand still, spin in circles because of its fast turn radious and just spam bite, and itll win

Allo attacks so fast that it can facetank elder maias and somehow win

[viscid mica]

Why are you remaining in it’s bite range while charging the bite

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1473414720911315135/The_Isle_2026.02.17_-_21.21.17.02.mp4?ex=6996c8a4&is=69957724&hm=973ef61238c7120ce792cbbbe78e65b49d97ee977a69a24c8fcdd2268482f99b&
(video reference)

[viscid mica]

That’s a Maia

[cosmic pelican]

Adult allo is faster than even peak cera

[viscid mica]

Negative

[cosmic pelican]

It gets facetanked and deleted in 20 seconds, a 5.4 ton animal

[cosmic pelican]

Peak cera at 87.5% is 39.7kmh, adult allo is 39.8kmh

[viscid mica]

Again WHY would you remaining in its bite range and 2 why are you not using max charge bite

I have NEVER in both PVP servers and actual gameplay lost to a allo as cera

Unless severely outnumbered

[cosmic pelican]

Ive had the opposite experience, sure you can win on a body, but without it cera gets dogwalked

Allo just spam bites it to death, same with anything in its size range

I was playing allo, literally standing still, just spamming, and I was winning against ceras who were trading charged bites

[viscid mica]

Again why are you standing there trying to face tank keep that man turning and moving and use charge bites which damage can match the bite of apex’s

[cosmic pelican]

Again, adult allo is faster, you cant really keep a safe distance

[viscid mica]

Face to face trade keep running past charge, turn repeat win

[cosmic pelican]

Even at peak elder allo is 39.2kmh, so if the cera is even a couple % after it hit peak, its cooked

[cosmic pelican]

Glad you did, Im just saying I had a vastly different experience when I was an allo fighting ceras 🤷‍♂️

[viscid mica]

Most ceras are noobs tbf playing it cuz it’s so strong

I’ve only lost 1 fight to a allo as cera and that’s when I was on a PvP server trying to figure out best way to beat em

And discovered that method

[cosmic pelican]

Id like to think Im a good cera. We tried cera vs allo with one of my friends. I was the cera, an elder, he was the allo, an adult. His mouse allows macros which made him bite so insanely fast I had 0 hope of ever going in for a clean bite. I ended up trading 1-2 bites at least every time I went in. We tried at least 30+ times, I only won once.

I know using macros isnt the norm, but the fact allo even has potential to bite as stupidly fast as it can is insanity

[viscid mica]

Using a cheat doesn’t really count lol

[cosmic pelican]

Its not a cheat really, a built in mouse feature more like

[viscid mica]

But yes allo needs nerf but cera doesn’t need buffs

[cosmic pelican]

Never said it did, but yeah

[viscid mica]

Fair but it’s highly abnormal

[cosmic pelican]

Cera and allo are way too close in speed personally, especially for the weight difference.

[viscid mica]

I’ve never seen anyone not also using other cheats use macros for this game

[viscid mica]

Also agreed allo is far too fast

[cosmic pelican]

The only reason allo even needs to be as fast as it is is because prime rex runs 40+kmh

[viscid mica]

38 tops

[viscid mica]

AGREED

it all comes back to Rex being absurdly fast to compensate for your average Rex players lack of skill

[cosmic pelican]

All it takes is one of those sweaty youtubers to one day discover this, make a video about it and hell will be let loose

Getting macros or setting one up is so mad easy everyone will be using them once they realise the potential

[cosmic pelican]

(he was using the macros here too fyi)

[viscid mica]

Ngl I’d hella use a macro on dilo….

Speed running venom

[viscid mica]

Yikes

That bite speed is demonic

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466491303729565696/5911981.MP4?ex=69974df4&is=6995fc74&hm=142e5306acf77a02c744d4ed2ca5d2b527393c5528904e946f1b965c3efec8d7&
Jokes on you the 1t juvi rex will run you down and kill you in 2 seconds because its pin deals 350dmg

[cosmic pelican]

I hope you get why I said allo vs cera is hopeless for cera now

Your average allo I can fight too, but one that knows how to do this will have you on a leash

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

Fair

[viscid mica]

Rex’s pin math is criminal

I wish crush only insta killed stuff significantly smaller like 35% or below

There’s no really fun interaction between apex’s and mid tiers atm because apex’s are just so strong

[cosmic pelican]

Anyways, was a nice discussion. I hope more people realise how absurd allo is.
Have a nice day my man 😌

[viscid mica]

Fair enough!

Have a good day

[limber delta]

ad hominem fallacy one response in, average allo defender

[viscid mica]

Sorry your bad a cera lol? Only thing allo has is a unholy bite speed and being too fast which it has to be until they nerf Rex speed

[limber delta]

im bad at allo and still 1v3 peak ceras

keep crying, since u want me to return ur attitude so bad

[viscid mica]

They are garbage at cera

[limber delta]

nope they were actually tryhard good cera otps

[viscid mica]

5x biteforce form charge bite damage muts apply, highest bleed res in the game and equal speed but double the stamina not accounting for body buff

[limber delta]

ive never lost to ceras as allo

[viscid mica]

Find that hard to believe

[limber delta]

try harder then

[viscid mica]

Never lost to allo as cera

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[viscid mica]

Hard to believe something I have and will never see happen

The only way I can see that happiness is one. They were sub adults and you were a prime too they didn’t use charge bite Three had no bile

Beyond that it’s physically impossible to lose that within being 30% hp and lower going in

3 full hp cera with bile using charge bites of equal grow % will shred any allo always without issue

[limber delta]

nope they were peak prime i was sub adult

killed all of them, and they were good too

and i have skill issue with allo

[viscid mica]

Ya you’re lying than

That’s physically impossible

[limber delta]

'Ya your lying than'

[viscid mica]

I said cera

[viscid mica]

It’s physically impossible to lose that without being insanely low hp completely unaware of rmb and half asleep

[limber delta]

nope because I did it