balance-feedback-discussion

[maiden temple]

I think raptor is even faster than 46 at peak

[cosmic pelican]

Peak prime raptor is 52kmh yeah

[maiden temple]

~43 fully eldered if prime iirc

[edgy cliff]

peak yeah,

[cosmic pelican]

But once you age you become rex fodder, as per most of the roster

[maiden temple]

Idk about frail, but it's probably awful

[edgy cliff]

me either but im positive omni prime is around 46,47

that 3km difference is life or death

[maiden temple]

Better than I remember then, no prime rex is catching you

[edgy cliff]

none will catch u

but fighting one is very complicated because of that 3km difference, which isnt much within a good distance

[maiden temple]

I don't think you're meant to fight one to be completely honest, unless you have a big group with some coordination

[edgy cliff]

yeah, 10 raptors 1 rex, but its FKed how they can speed boost the same speed as u run and ur dead

[maiden temple]

You're fighting the rex, server lag, your ping, his ping and your random pack lol

[edgy cliff]

pack not random

[maiden temple]

Lucky, one less challenge

[edgy cliff]

my ping is generally good

[cosmic pelican]

At least omni can dodge and weave, imagine dibble, stego and teno players

[edgy cliff]

but latency yes

[maiden temple]

All I know is rock

[cosmic pelican]

40kmh 12 ton rex go brrr

[edgy cliff]

how fast is a teno?

[cosmic pelican]

Same speed as prime rex ambush, but subs are faster and insta pin it

[edgy cliff]

🥀

[maiden temple]

I'm waiting for some changes lol

[golden tapir]

That is a peak prime dinosaur against an old frail dinosaur sir. At that point you’re ready to entomb and better call it a day. Besides Rex is still slower

[cosmic pelican]

100% prime teno is also like 36kmh, allo and rex fodder basically

[edgy cliff]

we just established this

prime omni is near 47km while a prime rex can ambush near 44km

[golden tapir]

Also 100% Rex is 27kmh. I don’t get ur point everything is slow at 100% that’s a elder system issue

Don’t forget prime allo is faster than all of them and can pin them at peak prime

A 88% allo literally faster than prime cera 100% and can pin him. Same with 100% teno

It’s not just a Rex issue it’s literally a all playable issue

[edgy cliff]

how fast is prime allo

[maiden temple]

Everything is all over the place, but I think raptor speeds are fine :x

[golden tapir]

it’s around 38-39kmh at 88%. Faster than 100% cera and 100% Teno so

[edgy cliff]

its not like im asking for a substantial increase in speed

[maiden temple]

I'd prefer to get its old agility back, I liked to bait carnos

[edgy cliff]

a km wouldnt hurt

[maiden temple]

Yeah but your suggestion was made on a premise you're slower than a prime rex when prime, it's just not true

[waxen lance]

Just nerf rexes speed lol

Raptor doesn't need any speed

[edgy cliff]

i feel theyd be to slow

[golden tapir]

And he’s putting a peak prime x against a 100% frail prime. It’s not just a Rex issue at all too

[cosmic pelican]

Im pointing out how some playables got done extra dirty thats all, even a 100% prime rex can run 33kmh in ambush, which is more than enough for it to stay competitive combined with its weight.
Meanwhile dilo gets a measly 41kmh at 100%

[waxen lance]

Good they should have to time their ambush instead of running it down

[edgy cliff]

im not, ur information is wrong so get it correct before u include ur false opinions

[golden tapir]

What’s wrong?

[edgy cliff]

ive never mentioned once comparing a frail, and a prime

[cosmic pelican]

I dont mind peak prime individuals killing their old counterparts, but keeping a balance between the old guys at least would be nice

[maiden temple]

Even then he's still faster

[cosmic pelican]

Right now 100% prime allo is faster than 100% prime cera as far as I know

[maiden temple]

Oh no, not more cera buffs pls

[golden tapir]

A 100% raptor is still faster than a 88% Rex (even though the Rex is literally at his peak) lol. Go complain about prime allo at 88% being faster than 100% Teno and 100% cerato and still demolishing them while also being faster at the same time

[edgy cliff]

i would if its what i played as

[cosmic pelican]

Its kind of allo fodder rn sadly, not even joking.
Me and my friend ran 40+ fights of peak prime cera vs adult allo with us switching playables every now and then. The cera only won twice. And the joke is, an adult allo is faster than a prime cera. So cera is in an interesting situation, technically frail cera is better because it loses speed later in growth compared to the prime.

[edgy cliff]

i already see im not the only dino with a speed issue when it comes to a rex or allo

we are all suffering

shoulda kept them damn monsters on bugtest

@kind hollow are u saying rex wins over trike? sorry to much to read

[maiden temple]

It's odd, and I don't think cera is in the right spot still, even though it got heavier

It's still too good at hunting and not good enough at being a defense-based bully

[cosmic pelican]

Allo just needs a fat nerf thats all, same with rex

[kind hollow]

Oh yeah it gets thrashed, take a look at these vids #general-feedback message

Or this
https://youtu.be/t721pRy2jFk?si=lC1ynv_IiimIib3c

[maiden temple]

I'd yeet grapple, that alone is cancer

[cosmic pelican]

Allo specifically has 0 openings for a cera, it bites faster, drifts better, and ballerina spins in place

And even if its losing it can just pounce and still win

[kind hollow]

Wouldn't be so bad if multiple allos didn't use 100%% of their total weight to pin

Or were able to pin low health/blood/stam targets 5x theur size

[edgy cliff]

not too fat, but a balancable difference where every other dino is instantly fried going against a rex or allo like
how i want a omni to have more of a speed advantage against a rex

but it would be unfair to other dinos as well ig

[cosmic pelican]

I suppose, but wouldnt fix the issue of it absolutely dominating everything in its size range while being as fast as it is

[kind hollow]

Yeah.. tis a shame. Prime tenno and carno get pinned.. dibble got biig (Much needed) nerfs

[cosmic pelican]

Bringing its bite speed and turn speed to a non comical level would be nice

[maiden temple]

You have enough of a gap there on raptor, at both stages. I honestly don't think you need more, especially considering you can jump well. Rex is survivable for you

[edgy cliff]

survivable, yes. fightable, NO ( kinda )

[maiden temple]

Risking getting 1 tapped but you're not being chased down defenseless. It should be a boss fight by all means

[edgy cliff]

😂u r right

that 360 head spin is no joke, and their ambush making them able to close the gap makes it hell fighting them

[maiden temple]

Classic raptor missions, except now you actually dish out absolute tons of damage and don't lose all stamina in 2 seconds

I need to play again, after my trike gets annihilated

I watched a solo raptor hunt down a dibble when I was growing and I felt the dark urge to bork

[digital vine]

guys, what prime requirements are right now? Its the third time I couldn't get prime

Do you have to go to some especific route ?

cause man I went to 11 pz, 3 mz, no infertile, sanct. But still no prime to me 🙁 Is it necessary to have perfect diet on until 75%?

i need to know what I am doing wrong

[coarse blaze]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, I think you're very wrong and purposely pulling what I'm saying.

All these people must be wrong too, right? Just all weak animals?

Bleed is overtuned, for sure, it's why so many people have complained and why there are so, so many videos about it currently.

[finite shadow]

Lmao half your quotes are from when allos bleed wasn’t tuned properly in HT and the rest are people complaining on dino’s with low bleed res like maia

[coarse blaze]

They're not, and if you're that much of a stickler, I can find more from this month alone.

Only 4 have dates that were shown above. I didn't bother clipping the dates but a lot were this month and just prior.

[thorn mountain]

I think 5 were HT allo

it being the last 5

as in these

not trying to take sides btw or get into a argument just pointing out facts

[coarse blaze]

You're right, let me get newer ones.

[thorn mountain]

there we go lol

[coarse blaze]

I just couldn't fathom that my 5.something ton Maia bled out in just a few hits with bleed resistance, whilst not moving.

[frosty heron]

Is people really suggesting Rex getting backwards damage for crushing Trike head and that suggestion getting upvoted? Lmao

Removing the fracture damage is enough , getting backwards damage when its apex vs apex its toxic

[steep otter]

Fixing the frill not working + buffing its stun treshold a bit and making so rex can only break the leg of animals 70% of its weight should fix this

[frosty heron]

Yeah but many people really doesnt have any common sense when suggesting stuff , backwards damage only exist on Carno charging stuff x2 bigger than it and thats fine but shouldnt be the case on the same weight class

I would find that extremely dumb specially when Rex can spar with Trike

[cosmic pelican]

If you followed a 3rd party map, dont. Theyre all insanely inaccurate, had to learn the hard way myself.

Just keep moving around the map, if you see herbivore food spawn that means its either a patrol or migration, sometimes both.

[spiral fern]

Kouga relesead a video of uninformed raptor pounce changes just recently.. If that is correct they just messed up the game even more 💀 bleed pounce is nerfed to the grave, raw-dmg pounce does more bleed then actual bleed (which now is nothing)... Even raptor mains with thousands of hours thought the bleed was too strong in this patch (in general), that doesn't mean to make it go extinct!
Especially not with these "features" implemented for Carnos that are absolutely broken...

STOP FAILING SO UTTERLY BAD, perhaps it's time to create a dedicated group of players to give advice and input to game-balance topics because the devs clearly have no idea about it...

[frosty heron]

Feels like an unitended bug due to the recent patch but don´t quote me on that one because I do know for a fact people hates Omni so hard they can make Beipi do more bleed and call it balanced

[spiral ledge]

You forgot to mention that the cera is a scavenger and that's why it always runs a bit faster than the allo to survive. I remember just when I ran into you Mr Potato you escaped from me because you were faster than me and we killed you because you started talking in the chat xd

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah I remember, yall chased me through the whole map it felt like lol

But doesnt take away from what I said, adult allo is faster than prime cera while also being stronger, so cera doesnt have any reliable escape options unless it only lives in delta.

[spiral ledge]

I mean a 1.8 cera can easily take down a 2.6 allo, cera have 400 bite force and one of the dinos with best agility and cera now being a scavenger Dino that only survives in group you need atleast four ceras to survive

Yesterday we were 5 primes ceras and we killed like 20 adult allos I mean it is very easy to kill allos

[manic pagoda]

So now Omi's RMB does less bleed than just riding the target?

Wtf?

[cosmic pelican]

You need a group to survive? Thats the definition of unviable. Who are you going to group with if they all die before finding a group?

And trust me, we tried many, many times, the cera just cant win. By the time it runs in, gets the charged bite off, gets out, the allo already bit it 2-3 times. God forbid it lands a pounce.

[spiral ledge]

but with every dino , allos need a group to survive , ceras same , omnis same , dilos same , For example 2 ceras primes 1.8 can take down a prime allo , Every dino needs to be in group to survive

[spiral ledge]

it is hard to win allo? yes but the advantage that cera have in pack limit reduce that difference

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy used to need a group to survive before its weight got buffed, guess how many people played it

[spiral ledge]

and cera prime with body near weights more than 2,7 t with a lot of biteforce and agility it is a beast

[cosmic pelican]

It also doesnt change the fact that cera can neither run, or fight an allo

[spiral ledge]

carnos enters the chat: right now all smalls are a buffet for carno

[cosmic pelican]

That is true yes, but also very situational

[cosmic pelican]

Aside from dilo I gotta disagree, Ive killed a lot of carnos recently on omni, even solo

Dilo lacks the agility to dodge, but other smalls can do it

[spiral ledge]

the other day my friend and me , were carnos 1.8 and we killed like 40 omnis it is so so easy

[cosmic pelican]

A couple days ago I killed a prime carno as an adult omni🤷‍♂️

There are 2 sides to the coin yk

[spiral ledge]

You stay still and start spamming them with the charge, knocking them to the ground and they're dead.

trust me carno right now abuses all the small dinos

[cosmic pelican]

If it stands still you start running, if it runs after you, you try your best to dodge

Aside from the bug where carno cant be pounced while holding RMB, and dilo being fodder to it, I like carno now, most fun its been for me for a while

[spiral ledge]

yea but right now carno knocked to the ground everywhere , running , still i mean Even with the side headbutt, you'll stun ceratosaurs of 1.9 weighing 1.8

[spiral ledge]

it is the small apex right now i really like it but if you are dilo or omni main not so much

[steep gazelle]

@chilly scarab Stego is already severely penalized if he doesn't play on an open field

[chilly scarab]

I'm aware and that's why I also said I know it's hard to balance but I see so many people playing stego for the sole purpose that it's the best thing to kill rexes and pretty much anything else that gets close with. That should be the trikes job imo. I don't think I'll ever understand stego's being able to W key at a rex (especially if it's in a group) and automatically winning

I'm cool with the bleed, I know trees & rocks are stegos worst enemy but spamming powerswing on a stunned target while the apexes are punished for missing their power attacks is mind boggling to me

[maiden temple]

Raptors don't have it nearly as bad as dilos in that encounter but yh, it looks crazy with that headbang

https://tenor.com/view/carnotaurus-dinosaur-drugs-carnotaurus-on-drugs-pesky-gif-21486127

[rocky patrol]

Have dilo clones got buffed lately? I was playing a 60% raptor yesterday and got one shot by a clone when I was still in green

[steep gazelle]

So you want Stego to be punished even more by using His only attack, even though it's already punished far more than Rex and Trike just for not playing in the open?

[viscid mica]

@steep gazelle while I can appreciate the first part and last half of your dilo suggestion you seem to be ignoring that clones only really work in specific parts of the map as they have the iq of a toddler and get stuck on everything dilo is not nearly as strong as it once was to justify neutering its venom that hard

[vale brook]

i think we should fix the bug rather than base dilo balance around bug

i agree to some extent, dilo with that kit and current bug would suck but also like

Please have dilo work for once.

[viscid mica]

Agreed but I wouldn’t balance something while bugged that will cause for over compensation in the next balance that once they finally fix the bug will be so extremely op it’s no good

[vale brook]

all i ask is for a well balanced, consistently working dilophosaurus

ive almost gone back to legacy for my itch to be itched

[viscid mica]

Dilo shouldn’t be touched until they get the clones into a good state where they can navigate decently well

Once they do that start changing clones and stuff

With what he is suggestion current dilo would get significantly worse than it already feels to play in most parts of the map

Literally dense forest nukes dilo as the clones run in a straight line and get stuck on everything you’d get stuck on running straight

[steep gazelle]

The problem is that when the clones work, nothing can stop them, Clones even climbed trees before

[viscid mica]

before not now now they get stuck on everything

[steep gazelle]

But i made that feedback a long time ago, i just added a few things

So Dilo needs to be fixed first, and then rework

[digital vine]

guys, any news about the bugged plants hitboxes?

[crystal wharf]

here i was thinking the carno size buff people had all disappeared into the woodwork once allo came out

[somber imp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1453045519919350017/1461078412193173679/image.png?ex=69693ece&is=6967ed4e&hm=7d49124ef86bc99b86c8125af99699690b7778ab9c5be80822a5adf6fa9e6dc3&

what does it mean ?

[viscid mica]

Didn’t k ow that as it was posted now

[viscid mica]

It means you got old man knees

[steep otter]

Your bones weke broken and healed way to much now they will be easier to break

Its a perma debuff and you cant get rid of it

[shadow vortex]

Interesting... Is this new to this update? Never seen before x)

[neon willow]

I mean... Given the hallucinations are supposed to represent the damage the dilo's venom is doing to an animal's body, terrain really shouldn't stop them. I like the idea of the clones not dealing damage when they take damage, though (sort of represents the venom confusing the afflicted animal and also the animal's immune system reacting to the venom)

[soft tiger]

Ai really should have bleed and stamina drains... especially if their going to pump up their health to accommodate allo and rex players....

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

i love how every allo buff is because rex is exceptionally powerful

nerf the rex instead lmao

[mint star]

also note how its all entirely related to carnivore v carnivore PVP

[dusky surge]

that too lmao

like honestly just make prime rex slower than adult rex and i guarantee 95% of its issues go away

(and then probably should hit a few other primes with speed nerfs because goddamn certain speed buffs are insane on animals)

[viscid mica]

@plush stirrup your asking for one of the strongest playables in the game at this moment to be even stronger fighting cera 1v1 same grow% past juvi always favours the allo significantly

[solemn thunder]

@plush stirrup what are you smoking

[steep otter]

Meanwhile dibble is crying in a corner

And trike is getting demoslished

[steep gazelle]

@plush stirrup Allo players are so funny

[eager saddle]

''1v1 with cera is a challenge for allo''

as it should be, hello?

cera is the ''stand your ground'' carnivore

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
'make allo faster than everything else when 100% prime save for carno and galli because I play it'

[dusky surge]

lmao

he keeps justifying it with "well prime rex is that fast!"

yea, it shouldn't be

[maiden temple]

I'm just flabbergasted

Just looking at all grown primes sprint would be enough to see how absolutely ridiculous that suggestion is

I miss the times before we had rex and allo

[eager saddle]

that's like me asking for deino to be able to grab every dinosaur on land

[maiden temple]

We can make a chain, teno kick should make every playable fall over

[slim dragon]

People do this a lot

[eager saddle]

yeah and I dont see how they do not see the flaws in it

[steep gazelle]

Troodon need be able to pin Rex

[indigo rain]

Technically it can if you use the pin threshold nonsense with allo LOL

[hasty coyote]

they are blind

[onyx lichen]

@bitter iris Its bugged

Not a nerf

[bitter iris]

o good

[onyx lichen]

Turkish made a video mentioning it

[bitter iris]

litteraly watching that video now

[hallow hinge]

they probably not gonna make it any better than now

[steep otter]

They are also going to fix trike getting demoslished by rex

[shadow vortex]

Did they say what specifically is going to be changed about that?

[steep otter]

Onky this ( from turkish video)

[shadow vortex]

Thanks!

[ripe yarrow]

at what age does prime is the most strongest?

[steep otter]

88%

[limber delta]

that'll be good for rex vs trike for sure, sadly it only saves trike from rex when pretty much every species besides maybe stego suffers from how overtuned their mobility and cc is :(

literally seen juve-sub rex run down and kill full grown carnos...

[uncut trellis]

Alright can somebody explain ceratopsians to me?? Why does thrash have to be double click instead of the more predictable “look down + click”? Cause more often than not when I try to do a simple run attack, I unintentionally thrash and leave myself open. Would be nice if there was an option to change these keybinds, but we can’t have nice things I guess

[steep gazelle]

It was like that before, and nobody used thrash

I honestly think double-clicking isn't so bad once you get used to it

[uncut trellis]

I’ve been doing combat practice and I’m really struggling. And I highly doubt it’s me at this rate cause even single clicks get picked up as double. It might be my mouse

It just seems so unnecessary

[faint robin]

Funny how it clearly won't save trike from agility issues and crush stun lock vs rex

Whats the point in all that head stuff when you can't face your opponent nor reliably stun it

Devs clearly don't understand the whole issue

Most of rex vs trike fights are rex just hitting trike's rear or sides cuz trike can't turn properly and rex has op turning

[icy blaze]

for all the people that have been pinned to win, for all the people that were suffering due to this, the Troodon has revenged you and Pinned to win reversed. VICTORY!

https://tenor.com/view/victory-yes-gif-11214411160867121384

[steep otter]

Hopefully the crush will not stun trike anymore from the front

Otherwise that + rex insane agility + being better at sparing will still give it a insane edge

[faint robin]

Front or not, rex can literally pull trike side to it and crush stun it
Just the front armor fix won't help at all

[steep otter]

Yeah, but at this point i doubt they will buff trike agility

Maybe making alt and spar atack stun rex would also help out

[faint robin]

Give trike ability to reliably stun rex and bring back standing flip animation

[elfin night]

Bro

Stop complaining about pins

People wanted is

Now they should accept it and swallow it all

[dusky surge]

do you like pins?

[elfin night]

No

I just want them all to enjoy what they refused to call out when Omni was the only one with it

But now that it affects muh carno

I feel compelled to simply be in favor of pins out of spite

[limber delta]

tbf raptor is in no where near the same category as allo/rex simply because they need skill and numbers to do it

allo still takes skill to pin full grown apexes but not as much, and smaller dinos it just takes one sneak attack

and rex just clicks on you while saying it's balanced because they 'have a hard growth' (10 hours of terrorising mid tiers by having carno speed and cera strength)

[elfin night]

I don’t care about the special pleading sorry

A bad mechanic that makes your dinosaur incompetent when it was perfectly of fighting before being right clicked will always be bad

And by pin I mean solo pin. I think grappling with multiple is acceptable in most circumstances

Also Rex gets stuck in the animation for a while and is huge. It’s like a well executed deino

[limber delta]

deino has to be in the right place at the right time, and has a proper weight limit, it is very easy to avoid but rex just turns on its 'i win chase' button, deino is a well executed rex tbh

I do wish there were some playables immune to cc/pins or at least had some major buff/resistance to it, but raptor is easily the least egregious example especially since it can only solo pin meme playables like beipi and ptera, or small juves

[elfin night]

Deino is bad all around even though it could work on paper

Rex has none of its design flaws since prey have agency to avoid it under most circumstances without cheesing it and Rex has actual agency to hunt and even survive as a young one

[limber delta]

also rex in general is way too fast for an apex, which makes its pin even more problematic

[elfin night]

Either way I think solo pin is cringe unless there are some significant conditions or trade offs like with Rex

Raptor and allo is unacceptable imo

[limber delta]

defending rex is certainly... a take...

what trade off?? it outcompetes every other carnivore its size at every stage of growth, takes almost zero skill, and has zero downsides an apex is supposed to have (low speed, low agility, struggles to fill itself), it exists purely to be a power fantasy hype dino

they even buffed it by removing the only real drawback ambush had (required to charge up by crouching for several seconds), the stam drain is a placebo downside since if you touch your opponent once they either can't move or instantly die

[elfin night]

I already said it

[dusky surge]

i'll be honest

crouching for a few seconds ain't a drawback

[elfin night]

It’s genuinely avoidable most of the time and it actually punishes it for missing

I have my gripes with Rex, but it pinning a maia or an allo is not one of them. In that regard it is a good ambush hunter

[dusky surge]

like it has a cooldown now, that's about on the same level of drawback as "crouching for a few seconds" is

[elfin night]

I think Rex crush is infinitely better than Raptor pounce, pound for pound

[dusky surge]

honestly rex's crush and pin is by far the least egrigious part of its kit

[elfin night]

Raptor fighting smaller things as a supposed big game hunter is just RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB

Turn your whole body into a hitbox and win

[elfin night]

Exactly

I agree with that

[dusky surge]

like i'd argue its fracture, turn radius or ambush speed are WAY worse than its pin

[elfin night]

At least Rex actually has to try to pin something down

[dusky surge]

its pin is like, the most fair pin in the entire game

[elfin night]

Yep

[limber delta]

it is NOT avoidable, that thing has the hitbox of a house, and 'punishes it for missing'? what punish? like 1 second of end lag?

if rex pin was on raptor, THEN you can say it's the most fair in the game, but the fact it's on rex of all things automatically makes it degenerate and unhealthy for the game

[elfin night]

In regards to ambush hunting and the style of pinning things after a good ambush, I am inclined to say that Rex is objectively better than deino

[elfin night]

You can see the house sized dinosaur from a distance too if you are aware or even hear it, also you can actually dodge it unless you have 200 ping and on top of that gets stuck in the animation

[dusky surge]

i honestly haven't really had a problem with rex pin

if it uses it in a chase, it most often just whiffs it

like just hold shift + W away from it, and if you aren't a trike or an OBNOXIOUSLY slow juvi, you'll live the crush

[limber delta]

dude the devs have a hard-on for making it nearly impossible to hear or see in this game so that point is moot, and if you're in somewhat the same size range as it, it doesn't matter if you see it in time, since it clicks its 'i win chase' button and noskill catches you

[dusky surge]

it kinda has to use it specifically in ambush against stationary targets, or in a brawl against guys running straight at it

[limber delta]

I don't mind you defending pins, I don't agree with it since it's stunslop but to each their own, but to defend rex's and not defend raptor/allo's is like saying you prefer torture over mild discomfort

maybe if rex had the speed, agility and animation speed in-line for something its size, then its pin would be manageable, sure, but that's sadly not the case. Rex is an apex sized cera with allo pin, as well as carno speed when not fully grown, so to attach rex pin to a creature like that automatically makes the ability problematic

allo is carried by its pin, sure, but it's no where near as bad to deal with as it's on allo

raptor is the same story but even moreso, it's on raptor, which pretty much automatically balances it out

[dusky surge]

why does raptor automatically balance it out

what about raptor specifically makes it balanced

if anything, raptor has the most egrigious pin of them all

no one has as generous a pin threshhold as raptor does

[limber delta]

because it's on raptor.

I could give a rocket launcher to teno because it's on teno of all things which currently is fodder (slight hyperbole)

raptor is a buggy mess that gets one shot by anything and requires giant groups to even function in combat, the dino the mechanic is on impacts the mechanic itself, it's not all just in a vacuum

[golden coral]

The mechanic is the mechanic, and works the way it does, no matter the playable. Omni, allo, or rex, that changes nothing. Nor does bugs, cause bugs don't actually determine how the playable works or what it can or can not do, and you don't buff/nerf something due to bugs or other such issues. Also what does omni being one shot by larger things, or requiring a pack, have to do with the pin, a solo mechanic you use on other targets your own size or smaller (depending on thresholds). You don't need another omni for the pin in the first place, so it is irrelevant to the point. Omni has had pin before, it has always been a questionable mechanic (omni vs omni for example), its just more obvious now with allo and rex as well having those. Pin is not better or more fun because it's on omni or on rex, you end up in the same situation as the target, shut down until let go or you die.

[limber delta]

raptor pin can be countered in a myriad of ways simply because it's on raptor, such as, clicking the m1 button (once, depending on ur dino) before it gets close enough

the vast majority of dinos raptor can solo pin are meme playables anyways, which die from pretty much anything and everything so raptor pin is a drop in a bucket especially since raptor m1 does the same job

also, pin isn't inherently a solo mechanic. You called it one so we're clearing this up before you say anything else. Solo pin is a type of pin but there are also group pins.

only rex pin is exclusively solo.

[golden coral]

Just because the playables are "meme playables", does not mean it's any more fun to die to a pin from an omni, or an allo, or a rex. Just because you don't care about that playable, does not mean others that play it does not. So that's just a strange argument I'd say. Pin is solo, grapple is group. Very similar, yes, but not quite the same.

Or at least I've seen people make a distinction between the solo version and the group version

Though I'll have to ask, how does just pressing m1 stop a pin, unless you mean if the target does enough damage to kill the omni? Or can I press m1 on a dryo and avoid being pinned somehow by that?

[limber delta]

You already know the answer to that, as I specified 'depending on your dino'. Dryo shouldn't be any where near a full grown raptor anyway. And if it gets caught, so what? just grow another one, you didn't see it and you lost, happens.

Now what ISN'T fun is getting ran down by a sub rex on 100% teno and spending at least double the time as the dryo in that situation would've (even worse considering dryo can actually get away from raptor)

this is why raptor pin and, to an extent, allo pin, are no where near comparable to rex pin, because it's on rex. The same dino that is faster and stronger than several 100% grown playables that invest multiple hours into reaching that growth.

right now growing a rex is similar to when people were deliberately going terrible diet on stego/deino to abuse their lower growth stages

attaching a pin onto that makes the whole problem so much worse

[golden coral]

Right, but the argument isn't that it's as easy to pin on the respective playable, or that it's better or worse on one playable or the other, the argument is just that pin is still pin, and that people seem to care more now that pin applies to larger stuff, and have, as you kind of did, "ignored" the "meme playables", despite them having had to deal with this exact mechanic since the very beginning. Rex might be able to ruin the day of larger playables, but it does so in the same unfun, unengaging and "cutscene" style death with pin that omni has done forever. If pin as a mechanic is bad, it's a bad mechanic, no matter the playable or target, no matter the time invested, because it's the mechanic itself that's bad due to how it works.

[eager saddle]

being able to spam pin is just not a good mechanic, no matter what it's on

it's certain death by spam.

[golden coral]

Pin on omni made omni vs omni rather questionable, even more so before retaliation damage. Since it was just a matter of whoever landed that first, and you'd win (unless you were far too low on stam, and then the other guy could just pin you in return and try and get the kill)

[eager saddle]

yeah pretty much

[limber delta]

yeah that's pretty much it you're spot on, meme playables are ignored because not only are they that, meme playables, but they can also just regrow very quickly, and have more than enough counterplay. Regular playables don't. A 100% teno is getting ran down and cutscene death'd by a sub rex or allo. Don't see why ignoring meme playables is a bad thing. That's kinda why they exist.

Additionally, raptors honestly just kinda suck compared to allo and rex, they're not weak in general, just compared to allo and rex, they suck.

Allo is also very strong, but it still sucks compared to rex.

Since raptors aren't overpowered, their pin is much less frustrating and has much more counterplay. So their pin is not nearly as unhealthy for the game, because, again, it's on raptor.

Rex doesn't deserve pin, it doesn't need it, pin is a bad mechanic... on rex.

[eager saddle]

Their pin doesn’t have counterplay though

It’s just a weight check. That’s not counterplay

[limber delta]

if only dondi thought like this

but sadly not so we're stuck with what we have.

[eager saddle]

Also, “their pin is not nearly as unhealthy for the game” but it’s the exact same mechanic. It just became “less problematic” because there are more playables you can’t pin now. The mechanic didn’t get fixed, the applicable group just got smaller

[limber delta]

the mechanic got fixed because it's on a playable that can't reliably abuse it regardless of applicable group

[eager saddle]

No? Again, that’s a weight check not a mechanic fix. If the mechanic was fixed, it wouldn’t be frustrating on rex still. But I get what you’re saying

[golden coral]

I mean, there is no such thing as "meme playable" or "regular playable", you realize that right? Just because you don't care about a dryo, doesn't mean it's not a fully valid playable, that people do enjoy playing. Or maybe I just do honestly see even the small critters as normal playables that should be treated the same as all the others, and with full development and all that. In which case, I do get your outlook on them, but I don't really see the point in not treating all playables properly, since why add them only to go "don't really care about them", but maybe that's just me.

And sure, allo and rex are probably a bit overtuned, though I hope they're less so than they used to be. But also, rex is meant to be an apex, maybe it's meant to be this powerful, similar to how the smalls are "memes", an apex is meant to be beyond all the "regular" playables too, but in the other direction perhaps. Now, I've not kept up with playing lately, so I honestly don't know if rex is as bad as you kind of make it out to be, not that I mean to doubt you but I'm sure if I asked around, I'd get multiple different opinions on the state of the game.

[limber delta]

it would have to be removed from rex for me to not find it frustrating

[limber delta]

you do realise that I said 'meme playable' and not 'disgusting useless hated playable that people should be banned for playing' right? right?

[eager saddle]

The only insta grab mechanic I accept is deino because 1. i am biased, 2. Deino can’t do it everywhere. 3. You can live multiple lives without interacting with one either

[limber delta]

just because it's a meme playable doesn't mean i don't like it. I delve in some troodon from time to time

[golden coral]

Yes yes, but I didn't exaggerate your stance either, I don't think at least. Just trying to clarify that I do care about those playables too, so I don't quite agree with not caring about pin or any other questionable mechanic in those cases.

[limber delta]

"I'm sure if I asked around, I'd get multiple different opinions on the state of the game." You'd probably get people supporting Dondi too.

Anyways, the last 5 feedbacks have all been to nerf rex. to put it in picture. one from me lol

[golden coral]

Fair enough, and yeah, rex does seem a little overtuned still. Funnily enough, stego seems to have ended up a bit overtuned too.

[limber delta]

just because it's an apex doesn't mean it doesn't need nerfing. In fact that's exactly why it needs nerfing, because it doesn't function as an apex but rather a power fantasy hype dino, as it has no downsides of being an apex

[golden coral]

Well, maybe that was the intention, an apex is pretty much a "power fantasy" in a sense, or at least it might be in this game

They did want apexes to be well, properly powerful, or so I recall

While I can imagine players might prefer apexes being more just a powerful playable but not the be all, end all

[limber delta]

just because it's intentional doesn't mean it's good.

rex isn't just powerful, it's fast, agile, easy to grow, has no struggles feeding itself, has incredible utility, and easily gets prime elder, that sound like an apex to you? it doesn't to me

a proper apex would be trike or even deino, they're powerful while still having downsides appropriate of apexes

(ignoring the deino superlunge of doom and despair)

[golden coral]

Of course not, I was just making the point that it might be how the devs want it. Doesn't mean you or I or anyone else have to like it or agree with it in the slighest. And well, it depends on how you define apex to be honest. Though I would personally expect a difficult growth and difficulty feeding, yes. And trike, judging by feedback I've seen, seems to need some buffs and help if anything. Not sure how well, or not, deino is doing these days, last I saw much of that it was pretty much "too many safe spots" and "too little fish", not the most useful feedbacks overall. (and yes, I did see some clips of the lunge, deino can now use it to travel over small land stretches)

[limber delta]

trike doesn't need buffs its competition just needs nerfs

[steep gazelle]

@nocturne mesa I agree with almost everything, except for the buff on Allo turn

10% may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference. Allo would become the "new Rex," possessing that turn

Perhaps a buff to bite force

Allo also already has a very good turn if you use the drift

And the stationary turn too

[spiral ledge]

drift that is bug by the way , i dont know when they are gonna fixed

[faint robin]

Trike needs buffs against rex

[limber delta]

yeah nerfing rex is a good trike buff i agree

[dusky surge]

you calling them meme playables and "regular playables" effectively entirely invalidates your argument to me

every animal deserves the exact same level of respect, deciding certain animals aren't worthy of respect is absurdist

[steep otter]

Buffs and nerfs that I crave to see

MECHANICS

• Apexes (Rex, Trike, Stego) has to complete more requirements overall than mid tiers and small tiers to reach prime

REX

• Nerf Rex's agility by 25 percent
• Nerf Rex's stamina by 25 percent
• Can no longer crush or pin a ceratopsian of atleast 75 percent its body weight (9.2 tons if prime, 6.9 for frail) by the head, gets punished with a stun
• Can no longer headbutt a ceratopsian of atleast 75 percent its body weight (9.2 tons if prime, 6.9 for frail) by the head, gets punished with a stun and loses 5 percent health

TRIKE

• Buff Turn Radius Speed

ALLO

• Nerf Bite Speed (Including omnidirectional attacks) by 15 percent
• Claw swipe uses 5 percent stamina
• Buff turn radius by 10 percent

DEINO

• Send the super lunge to tartarus

TENONTO

• Buff Prime Teno to 2.1 tons

DIABLO

• Make it 36km/h again

Now its perfect

[nocturne mesa]

Yeah. You're probably right.

[nocturne mesa]

Seems pretty good to me.

[daring aspen]

Why are we stuck in walking animation after getting pinned by an allo......

[solar berry]

Remove the pin mechanic that actively disables the opponent from playing the game with a right click. We have a bigger chance against hackers than pinslop.

[limber delta]

Literally not my point btw it’s you who came to that conclusion

[limber delta]

Trike won’t need a buff if rex gets nerfs but besides that 👌

[steep otter]

It will depend on how large of a nerf rex gets

[timber tusk]

#balance-feedback message

Or make nest building for herbivores MUCH more in depth. Right now, I think all of the Herbivores just make mud nests, the easiest and most boring kind. What if they instead had to put in a lot more effort to make a hybrid nest of mud, sticks, and even other materials like stones? And if herbivores could start a nest without a mate, like how brush turkeys and bower birds do?

What if you could start making a Trike nest as soon as you hit mutation 2, and you had to go through the steps of packing down a mud foundation, gathering whole bushes to be stomped into a stick layer, adding more mud, shaping multiple distinct cups for each egg, and then reinforcing the whole thing with stones and fallen trees, to create pre-arrange bottlenecks for carnivores to approach.
Then imagine every herbivore has a version of that hybrid nest to keep them busy. Massive mud and stick turkey-mounds for Pachy and/or Teno, logs pushed around by Dibble and Trike, burrows and/or turkey/beaver-mounds for Dryo and Minmi, boulder rings for Anky and Stego, branch rings for Kentro, mounds with beaver-lodge spaces for baby Theri and Deinocherus, or any combination, all adding to pre-arranged structures, so it’s not too memory or physics intensive.

It would limit the Herbivore’s ability to travel the map, but nesting already does that, and the devs occasionally mention the idea of “nesting grounds” as a zone or something.
Carnivores already have to rely on non stop killing (killing Ai, herbivores, and other carnivores), to survive, but herbivores just don’t, so they get bored and hunt little guys like Ptera and Beipi for sport, canibalize eachother needlessly, or just walk off a cliff and play something else (I’ve seen all three play out). Carnivores don’t need complex nest or balls to play soccer with to be engaging playables. That’s why there are SO many of them on every server. But Herbivores?

*all of the big herbivores make mud nests. I know Hypsi makes stick nests, but I think it’s the only one. Even Dryo just slaps together a little mud bowl in like six-seconds.

[indigo rain]

Herbivores are expected to migrate from zone to zone, and carnivores follow them. Not sit around long term. Mind, that assumes that migration zones and patrol zones can be made to work properly, which they haven't for a very long time.

Making nests take multiple different materials and take time and effort is all well and good, but you are referencing animals that do not have as high a predation risk as the animals in game do (and why would a trike build an entire fort? Very few animals build shelters). A closer comparison if any for things such as teno or maia (from migratory patterns, not realism) would be wildebeest and or elk. They calve, and keep moving. Galli especially shows this with its honk speeding herdmates up and diets speeding them up.

There already is no viable reason to nest on herbivores due to the delay it puts on your prime requirements to nest hatchlings in by stopping moving around as anything smaller than stego, and you hit 75% before they hit 50%. Making nests take longer to build will kill nesting in its entirety. So, while a visual nest design rework might be a good idea for the oviraptor update down the line, i dont see this making herbivore gameplay more engaging. Its a cosmetic change at best.

[warm flax]

@random stump I wouldn't say it is balance , the hunger drain and its slow movement speed often forces it to strike at bad very timing (not talking about pond ambush play style) and unlike rex you can't fight your prey cause they will just run away or out damage you (stego or trike)
but yeah I agree on the rex part

[timber tusk]

I get that that is how it is now, but the devs definitely want players to nest, which is why they added two optional Prime requirement tasks related to it (hatching from a nest and/or nesting in other players). And I keep hearing “nesting grounds” get brought up. Plus, why should Hypsi and the burrowers be the only ones to get to play with base design?

I have a hard time finding other Herbivores in game, but I’ve found that the best way to survive is to go to lower Delta or The Pit, where there are several of the smaller diet zones right next to eachother, so when one shuts off, another is nearby. That’s where I stay and nest after I’ve hit the other requirements for Prime. Once you have babies to escort around, the best just becomes a home base, a rare mark on the map that the whole group can use to find their way around. Ideally, you plant that nest in between a few diet zones and/or a baby zone so everything is easy to reach.

Comparing dinosaurs to herds of mammals is pretty dubious. It’s worth nothing that basically no dinosaurs actually ate grass. Most of them didn’t have the teeth for it (grass is actually terrible food, with very little nutrients and it wears down the teeth of whatever eats it like CRAZY) even if it was on the menu.
All we know about dinosaurs and how they raise their young is that some nested and laid eggs. Saltosaur eggs were seemingly buried like turtle eggs, while hadrosaurs laid several eggs in ground nests that have more in common with Flamingo nests than anything cattle or antelope do. That’s why Maia got the name meaning Mother Lizard. They did not just calve and move on, they tended eggs and hatchling long enough that we have fossils of some of them, as improbable as that is.

So I’m thinking like birds. Birds build. Some birds build crazy stuff, but all birds that build are also pretty quick to abandon a nest if it’s damaged or compromised by predators.

[timber tusk]

Not sure why you think bower birds and brush turkeys don’t have pressure from predators when birds are only just above bugs in the food chain. Cats and some snakes eat too many birds. Especially cats, it’s actually a problem that ground birds like that, in places like islands with no major predator, tend to go extinct once cats get introduced by people, along with pigs and rats that eat their eggs.

American turkeys are ground browsing nomads that live in small groups, a lot like every playable herbivore in the game right now, and they are on the grocery list of every American carnivore that can catch them, from bobcats to mountain lions, coyotes to wolves, red tailed hawks even. They also build plush mounds at the base of a tree, less impressive than the brush turkey, but still an effort, and typically a female will incubate her eggs completely alone and hope not to be noticed, while the rest of the group wanders around pretty far from her, all until the baby turkeys are ready to run around. And those little nuggets are food for anything. Even snakes will take a turkey chick, easy peasy.
Crocodiles. Crocodiles also build huge mound nests and guard them fiercely. I’ve never bested as Deino, but I digress.

Beyond all that, I’m just proposing giving players more option and things to do, if they want to. You could and should be able to hatch a Trike and bail without pushing a single boulder, but if you’re bored, maybe a friend has to take their dog out, so you’re alone for a while in game with nothing to do? Why not give the player some options other than “kill the first thing that moves” or “just sit there and wait”?

And anyone who says they don’t want to see a Trike knock over a jeep in this game is lying or boring. I think a Trike building a fort would be too much, but knocking down a dead tree to provide a bit of a bottleneck against potential Rexes would be sick as hell. That’s closer to what I’m recommend.

[crystal stream]

Idk if dibble should do cc on its alts ngl

Thing can already turn rlly well

While also having a lot of tools to knock things down

[dusky surge]

all of those tools are VERY easy to dodge/bait, and so is it's alt

all doing CC on alt does is permit dibble to have SOME flank defence in situations where it's being attacked by several attackers (namely, cera or allo), while still being punishable because its alt is VERY slow

it also only has 2 tools to knock things down, both of which are very predictable

hold LMB is super, super slow, and running LMB is choreographed by the fact it's running, and also its running turn is AWFUL

[steep gazelle]

Yes, I don't see much need for Dibble to have that

But Trike having CC on Alt is necessary

[dusky surge]

if you're doing trike, why the hell not do dibble?

dibble arguably needs it more imho, and makes more sense to do it

dibble is the literal "flip you over and stun you" ceratopsian

trike is the "nuke you with raw damage" ceratopsian

[steep gazelle]

Dibble doesn't seem to need that in any situation, his entire kit is already good enough for that. But the Trike has a slow Alt attack, and that would help it in some situations

[dusky surge]

no it isn't? it sucks awfully against ceras, allos and sub-rexes, due to low damage, poor speed, low agility, slow alt attacks, and so on

trike is arguably far better at the same weight

if trike gets it, dibble absolutely should too

otherwise literally why would you EVER play dibble when trike, at the same weight, is better in every way

besides a small speed disadvantage, which doesn't really matter because dibble-sized trike both has more damage AND has better agility than adult trike

[golden tapir]

No it doesn’t

If your losing to cera as dibble it’s a major skill issue. Same with allo. Dibble can demolish both. You can even win against 2 ceratos

[dusky surge]

"you can even win against 2 ceratos"

how generous

[golden tapir]

Yeah so it doesn’t suck awfully against ceras or allos. It demolishes them. It just sucks that if 2 allos see you then you instantly die though because you can’t run away and they can just pin you but even with having alt cc it doesn’t change anything

[warped zenith]

Bro play the game and dibble please XD

[steep gazelle]

The only thing I would add for Dibble would be to allow him to use his normal attack when running sideways during sparring, I don't know why they removed it

[golden tapir]

I feel like dibble needs more damage

[warped zenith]

It's not, u can win vs 2 ceras inclusive if u know how to play obv

[golden tapir]

Allo can tank so many hits from dibble even if he get knock down

[warped zenith]

Have one of the best dmg in the game XD

[golden tapir]

No it’s not that good. More damage would help so much against sub Rex

[warped zenith]

Same to dibble, btw allo have "same dmg" as carno, cera have a lot more XD

[golden tapir]

Yes but bite speed is faster than Dilo bites

And if you have damage mutations it helps so much because you bite so fast

[warped zenith]

?, dibble never would win vs sub rex, have much more DMG and weight, that's why trike exist

[golden tapir]

Dibble should win against sub Rex is my point. A fully grown dibble shouldn’t be losing to a sub rex

But with the low dibble damage dibble just lose to sub Rex it no fair

[spiral ledge]

in the moment they nerfed rexs agility that wouldnt be a problem for sure

[warped zenith]

Yes but not better bcs dibble can knock down allos and have the trash and believe me, it's crazy the dmg, literally u can delete a allo with 2/3 trash XD

[golden tapir]

Yeah nerfing Rex agility would help too

[warped zenith]

In ur point, in the game no XD

[golden tapir]

It should in the game too

[spiral ledge]

look at the allos because of his lack of agility thwy never win

[golden tapir]

For balance reasons

[warped zenith]

A sub rex have more than 4 tons surely, dibble have 3,7 or so

[warped zenith]

Rn dibble is so strong and very unbalanced, what u say it's for unbalanced more the game xd

[golden tapir]

Prime dibble is 3.9 tons and he losses to 4 ton sub Rex and he also slower than 4 ton sub Rex. Do you just want dibble to fall on the ground and die? He’s free food for everything now. Sub Rexes chase you down and are stronger than you. 2 allos see you you instantly die. 3 or more ceratos see you you instantly die. A adult/prime Rex ambushes you from 50 meters you instantly die because they’re faster. Dibble is so bad he needs a buff

[golden tapir]

I just wish they remove allo pounce and give him a little bit better agility

[dusky surge]

what are you talking about lmao

[spiral ledge]

FINALLY SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTAND WHAT ALLO NEEDS

not like others that said that pounce is fine

[dusky surge]

listen, i get it, you can't 1v1 dibble as allo, that does not mean dibble is fine because of the one matchup

i genuinely despise this argument because you always go "but groupsize" and "dibble beat allo 1v1"

that's not the only matchup that exists in this game lmao

it is actually INSANE that anyone thinks dibble is "unbalanced" in a strong way

[warped zenith]

Obv rn rex's speed it's a lot, need nerf it a bit, but what u want abt dibble?, just hide bcs don't have the same dmg as rex, that's why trike exist, and btw, rex group is 2, dibble is 6, 2 allos can vs a dibble but 1vs1 can't do nothing, and btw dibble can 6 in a group but allo 3 so, but if they are more than u it's gl, dw Abt the game, they are more than u, hide more and be careful, isn't unbalanced u want to kill rexes, 3 ceras and 2 allos alone bcs yes XD

[dusky surge]

like "dibble does so much damage" but a 3 ton trike (same size as dibble) not only does more damage on its basic attack, but can actually kill confirm with thrash

trike actively disproves the idea that dibble does a lot of damage

allo has a higher DPS on its left click than dibble does on its left click

hell, i'm pretty sure cera does too

[warped zenith]

Btw, dibble prime have more speed than allo 100% and can't do nothing the allo, just died

[golden tapir]

There’s no dibble players anymore so how are you supposed to group up? Everyone is seeing they are free food solo so nobody is playing them

[spiral ledge]

trike has a lot less agility a lot more easy to kill than a dibble btw it is a lot easier

[dusky surge]

it does not

juvi and sub trike have enhanced agility

they are very agile at that age

[warped zenith]

Bcs the problem rn is the speed with the ambush in rex, they need nerf it a bit

[dusky surge]

i have played trike to adulthood and it is VERY agile at younger stages

[warped zenith]

But the problem isn't the dmg or weight abt dibble, is the speed abt rex

[dusky surge]

there is literally never a reason to play dibble when 3000kg trike is

• faster to grow
• does more damage
• is overall just a better animal

[dusky surge]

it's both

[golden tapir]

Yeah it needs a nerf

[dusky surge]

both are a problem

[warped zenith]

Don't have more than 32 or so?, meanwhile dibble have 36 or so

[spiral ledge]

should run less than a adult it only creates cannibals

[warped zenith]

Then the problem is Abt the grow, they need nerf it bcs trike had 1 ton in like 10 min?, is a lot XD

[dusky surge]

agility, not speed

also dibble does not have 36, it was nerfed

[warped zenith]

Well I mean, trike agility and spin sucks

[dusky surge]

dibble has 34.2, making trike around the same speed, all while having more damage and kill power

[dusky surge]

not while sub or juvi

it's quite good at those ages

[spiral ledge]

why you only extract the speed when is 100 old?

i mean at 100% it is designed to die same with allo and cera

[warped zenith]

Sorry, 35, but trike have much less, the problem is the adult rex bcs have like 40 km XD

[dusky surge]

adult rex is a problem, but dibble is still weak outside of just rex

[steep gazelle]

That is adult dibble Speed

[warped zenith]

Allo with the same grow and weight as cera can't kill it never, is bad and allo need much more time to grow

[dusky surge]

at 100% old it is even slower lol, at a pitiful 32.4 (if prime) and 28.8 (if frail)

[spiral ledge]

A

[golden tapir]

Prime stego faster than frail dibble lol

[spiral ledge]

yep dibble needs a speed buff

[steep gazelle]

Elder Buff and Speed Nerf is almost as bad as the speed mutations, I don't know why they did it this way

[spiral ledge]

it is designed to do that the mid tiers and the small tiers died no more

[golden tapir]

I say make dibble and allo the same speed and same stamina so if 2 allos see a dibble he can run away

[dusky surge]

i think speed nerf is fine and honestly, more animals need to be slower as prime like how cera and allo are (cough cough, rex)

[dusky surge]

why would you do that lmao

that seems like such an awkward way to balance it

[golden tapir]

It’s better for the dibble so if 2 allos see you you don’t instantly die

[steep gazelle]

Yes, now they don't die. They are forced to kill themselves

[warped zenith]

Ye, is bad too, the frail elder is bad always, wtf, carno have 40 km or so, ceras can kill it very easy, tenos, maias, etc, cera had like 30 km, rexes can kill it easily, etc XD

[spiral ledge]

what i hate most that is a system that allows the apexs to still alive but not for the rest of the dinos

[spiral ledge]

i have to remind you that tactile endurance exist btw

[warped zenith]

With the other dinos u can do things when u are prime at 100%, with allo no, just XD

[warped zenith]

True, and is unbalanced XD

[golden tapir]

Yeah you can just remove that mutation problem solved

[spiral ledge]

btw yesterday I grown my first rex and real is a beast lmao , more than 5 allos , 5 dibbles , ceras and like 4 stegos primes and trikes , it is very but very strong I mean the agility that have it is more supposed to have it from a 1t dino more than from a apex

[warped zenith]

Is a good idea but ig devs dont want, so f

[golden tapir]

Sure expect it to be a beast after growing for that long but trike should be stronger

And Rex speed need a nerf so he can’t chase down stuff with that power. If there’s a stego 100 meter away and Rex don’t ambush he shouldn’t walk the stego down

[spiral ledge]

yep but does that the rest of the rooster cant literally exist

[golden tapir]

If Rex speed gets a nerf it wouldn’t be a problem. Maybe even nerf Rex trot stamina regen t 70% more so Rex can’t chase down stegos

[warped zenith]

The problem can be solved with allo's ambush, running 34,5, dibbles running like 35,6 or so but allo's ambush 37, and obv with the legacy's mechanics,

[warped zenith]

Rn is, the problem is the fractured mechanic XD

[spiral ledge]

btw with allo when they are gonna do something with the charge pounce?? literally doesnt do anything new

[warped zenith]

Rn 100% stego had more stam and more speed than a 100% rex and is very strong, like his dps, just insane

[warped zenith]

just crouch, Ig they wanted to make the ambush activate while you were charging it but since they have removed it now it's useless XD

[deft otter]

Really? Stego is faster than a Rex? Since when?

[glacial estuary]

do something about the absolute cancer on this game that is mix packers, i spend 3 hours on a trike just to be lead into a trap by another trike, tricked me into following him then him and his rex group kill me together, really makes me want to never waste a single second on this game again

[golden tapir]

Play unofficials

[steep otter]

Just revert the nerf

So it goes back to being 36km/h

Rn 34km for dibble is way to little indeed

[white spade]

What do you guys think about it?

[dusky surge]

yea see carno is not only already really strong but also this game isn't realistic

carno is meant to hunt small game, that's literally all it's meant to do, pushing it into the role of "actually it can also punch up really well" all while having great speed and stam sounds like a recipe for a server admin dinosaur

[white spade]

They are aiming to make it realistic, we can observe it by looking to the models, graphics and actions (movements). However, you got a point, it still lacks realism

[dusky surge]

they are not aiming to making it realistic, we can observe it by looking to the models, graphics and actions (movements)

• herrera climbing and dropping on people's head
• shadow clone venom dilo
• omniraptor in general
• featherless galli, rex, etc
• beipi being a 90kg penguin dolphin
• spinosaurus in general
• the fact that stego/rex/megalania/humans are all planned to be in the same game
• troodon in general

it is not realistic, it has never been realistic, it will never be realistic

it is immersive, yes, but it is not realistic

this game constantly takes exceptions to realism for the sake of gameplay being unique and interesting

a realistic isle would be boring as hell

[white spade]

Omni is unrealistic, indeed. but why beipi, spino, troodon?

[dusky surge]

spino is a kaiju, beipi was realistically like, almost 5x larger and not at all aquatic, troodon was based on an invalid genus at the time of its inception, and even now is still highly inaccurate to the real troodon

[white spade]

Also I'm not saying a realistic isle, but just look to the 3D models, they are trying to make realistic actions and movements, there are a lot of improvement a sometimes its buggy.

[dusky surge]

not even that, a lot of the animations and models are purposely highly exaggerated

for the sake of gameplay

again, see spinosaurus

[white spade]

Got it

[white spade]

It's not in the game, yet. The closest is bary.

[dusky surge]

this thing is not even remotely close to any valid depiction of spino ever

it is literally closer to JP3 spino than any real finding we have ever had

[white spade]

True, its weird, hope they correct it

[dusky surge]

the point though, is to add something cool and scary and fun

[dusky surge]

they won't, because the game isn't realistic

[slim dragon]

You're mistaking realistic and high quality I think

[dusky surge]

they want their cool scary kaiju spino

so do i, i think it's cool as hell

but i also haven't fooled myself with the idea that this game has ever been realistic

[white spade]

Who wants this spino, its not even cool XD

A better one is more like this

Also more accurate

[dusky surge]

i want it

its cool as hell, big scary guy

realistic spino doesn't work for this game

it would just get nuked by the many, MANY unrealistically overpowered creatures this game has added

it's like adding a body builder into a super hero movie

yea sure the body builder is strong and has trained hard but he's taking one punch from the super hero and turning into a fine red mist

[elfin night]

I want it admittedly

[white spade]

Well, I got your point. But for me, and improvement to the carnos would be great, because right now, if you are playing solo you just get stuck into hunting AIs, because the majority of the players plays as allo, rex or herbs.

[elfin night]

It fulfills a role no other carnivore can right now

[dusky surge]

carno is really strong atm tho

it obliterates juvis or any small tiers

hell, it obliterates things within its size range if it wants to

[white spade]

I agree, but his knock back, knock down, stun doesn't work well

[dusky surge]

it works fine wdym

[white spade]

Even hitting lighter dinos, its hard to make them fall

[dusky surge]

you hit LMB and they go down lmao

[elfin night]

Plus I personally do not like playables that rely too hard on water in a game where almost everyone is terrestrial if you ask me

I would rather have a tank semi aquatic kaiju spino than an oversized salamander incapable of defending itself without looking dumb

[elfin night]

I’ve seen vids even though I’ve been taking a break

The headbutt spam getting free cc to win trades is beyond dumb

[white spade]

So my charge doesnt work haha, because everytime I try to knock down a dino, it just don't.

[elfin night]

It should be getting no stuns unless it is a headbutt while sprinting imo

[dusky surge]

have you been pressing LMB

the charge is now manually activated

it'd be really funny if this whole time you've been holding right click and not actually doing the headswing and that's why you think carno is bad because i would also think it was bad in that scenario

[white spade]

This is what I'm talking, my charge just don't give stuns. Its rare.

[white spade]

yep

I just hit them, they take damage, but don't fall

[elfin night]

Weird

[dusky surge]

then they're probably larger than you

[elfin night]

What are you even trying to charge

[dusky surge]

in which case, yea, that's not gonna happen

[white spade]

How the weight limit works?

[spiral ledge]

carno is in a good place right now , it is one of the unique dinos that his elder 100% still able to hunt and one alone carno can kill packs of omnis , alone ceras and things like that

[white spade]

A few, but when I do I try to aim for the tail and then I get stunned... Bro, the tail! how and why?

its a tail

[dusky surge]

why would you aim for the tail and what are you aiming for that's SO large that you're getting recoil stunned

[slim dragon]

trike

[white spade]

the tail shouldn't make carno stunned

[elfin night]

Prime deino

[dusky surge]

okay so lemme break this down

if it's SIGNIFICANTLY larger than you are, you will get stunned

this applies to juvi too, you don't stun a pachy just because it's pachy and you're carno, if you're a juvi carno and it's an adult pachy, you'll get screwed

[spiral ledge]

1.8 carno can hit i think 2.1 or something like that was

[elfin night]

If it’s way larger than you, I would say that the whole body should have collision ngl

[white spade]

cera, allos, some smallers than me, some at the similar size and some bigger

[elfin night]

Allos?

[white spade]

🤔

[white spade]

adult vs adult. Allo have higher weight. So a knock down shouldn't be possible

[spiral ledge]

that is the capped when stuns you 2.2 i have to try one day what is the max

[white spade]

That's why I'm saying fracture. This would be more logical

Bro, a 1.8T dino running at 55km/h speed

Should at least fracture something in rival dino's legs

Of course not a 5T dino

But at 2.5/3T it shoul make some damage and debuff

[steep otter]

Carno is already in a very strong spot it does not need more buffs

[white spade]

I'm not saying buffs

[spiral ledge]

Carno is one of the best dino , is the only one that allows you to play alone , you can select the battle you want , and the carno drift literally is the best thing of this game

[elfin night]

Dryo should get iframes on the dodge

[white spade]

rebalance is the correct, because the recoil damage would be applied based on the targets weight

[white spade]

I agree with you

Its cool

[spiral ledge]

running 45 when old literally allows carno to still alive and is one of the only predators that literally hunts in the game , not like others ejem (allo)

[steep gazelle]

Prime Carno can Stun adult Allo i think

1300kg carno can stun up to 1950kg

So 1800kg carno stun up to 2700kg

50%

[twilit haven]

Is there a place where they give rationale about balance changes? I keep reading about Omni bleed being nerfed and I am just trying to understand why that decisions was made, It already felt like you have to attack with minimal error as an Omni are they just insanely strong in the hands of the right players?

[cosmic pelican]

2 pounces used to bleed out a prime rex if the omnis were prime themselves, it was nasty

But the nerfs went from one extreme, to the other. Hopefully only temporarily

[twilit haven]

ohh I see thanks for responding I have never played as a prime raptor didn't realise they were that strong jeez. But yeah sounds like they overcooked the nerf hopefully they find the sweet spot soon Omni is one of my favs to play xD

[cosmic pelican]

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message I bet my life that even if deino could grab Rex or trike in the water

People would still complain about Shant, cama and spino bullying them and camping the shore

[clever zinc]

For people who didn't notice: Official servers are back online

[crystal stream]

Does anyone else think for how fast Mia is that it’s a lil to strong and that’s coming from someone who loves Mia

[steep otter]

when cama comes out, some deinos will complain that they are getting stomped in the water lmao

[elfin night]

“How is a sub cama killing me in 2 hits bro???”

“My brother in Christ it is 12 TONS”

[steep otter]

[dusky surge]

"nerf cama, why can't i, a fully grown prime rex, kill a prime cama? we're both prime apexes"

"it is over twice your size and rex has awful punchup"

"irrelevant"

[steep gazelle]

Maia fights practically standing still, and she would also be eaten by Allos if slower

[crystal stream]

Yeah so why does it need to be so strong if it can easily escape most things that it would need that typa dmg for

[steep otter]

it will be funny when they realize that rex can only fracture up to a certain weight and cama will be out of that range so ther crushs will be useless lmao

[steep otter]

maia is balanced, its 4-5 ton large herb

[crystal stream]

lol su bruh

[steep gazelle]

The damage was extremely low before, exactly as you wanted, and Maia was one of the most pathetic dinos. A 3.8-5.4ton dino that can only fight against things 1/3 its own weight...

[dusky surge]

i honestly don't think maia's that big an issue

prime maia is absolutely insane tho

[spiral ledge]

maia is very good in terms of balance right now i think it is one of the dinos with better balance right now

[steep gazelle]

Yes, Maia is fine. He's fast, but his agility is one of the worst in the game

[crystal stream]

Mia survival such a walk in the park

[steep gazelle]

Maybe even the worst, but there's Dilo too, so I'm not sure.

[dusky surge]

genuinely, prime maia is tanky as hell, fast as hell, does great damage

it's QUAD STANCE in prime is faster than TENO, and its biped stance is faster than dilo

[crystal stream]

Mia’s agility is crazy wdym

[dusky surge]

i think maia is specifically insane as prime

[steep otter]

this is more of a issue with all primes getting speed boosts when they should not

[dusky surge]

ehhhhh no not really lmao

[crystal stream]

Quad stance is nuts are yall crazy

[spiral ledge]

if you do the drift maia have good agility btw

[dusky surge]

maia is a lot of things but it is not agile

nah, even quad ain't that agile, it's just agile for a maia

[steep gazelle]

The Prime Speed buff is completely unnecessary, and the nerf to 100% is also unnecessary. It should be removed

[crystal stream]

Nah yall jst never played Mia then

[dusky surge]

i've been playing a good amount of maia

[steep gazelle]

More weight and damage is already enough

[dusky surge]

it's REALLY fun

but i must admit how insane its prime is

[spiral ledge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78s9Cn23Azw

it is a dino that needs a lot of skill to be played good

one of the most i think

[dusky surge]

this is true, but it's still really strong

[crystal stream]

As someone who loves playing Mia no it doesn’t

[dusky surge]

like i dont think "being skilled" should also mean "being busted"

[crystal stream]

Not anymore

[dusky surge]

maia def is skilled, but again, its prime is nutty

[steep otter]

they should make so all primes do not get faster

[dusky surge]

the prime just kinda plays itself

it is so goddamn good

prime maia obliterates allos and ceras SO easily

[spiral ledge]

in carnivores it only does cannibalizes witch is a sh1t

[dusky surge]

what

[steep otter]

fr

[steep gazelle]

Yes, that would be fairer to literally everyone

[dusky surge]

i think galli prime should get faster

that's about it really lmao

[steep gazelle]

If an adult saw a prime from afar, they could run away, since they would be the same speed

[spiral ledge]

this is what a pro maia says xd

[dusky surge]

like, come on, it's galli, it should get faster

[steep gazelle]

But nowadays, if an adult sees a Prime, they're dead because the Prime is faster, stronger, and heavier xd

[dusky surge]

cool i guess lol

[spiral ledge]

for me yes

the herbs should always have a little advantage

in terms of power

[dusky surge]

i agree

[crystal stream]

Mia can just run away

Why even bother fighting

Unless ur bored ofc

[dusky surge]

but i just think prime maia is insane

[crystal stream]

I think he thinks prime Mia is insane

[spiral ledge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NAbO91h96s

for you one hour of maias killing allos xddddd

[crystal stream]

Seems fair

[steep gazelle]

So why play as Maia

[dusky surge]

im not entirely sure what you're trying to prove here lmao

are you agreeing that maia is too strong?? or are you saying maia is skilled and is fine as-is?

[spiral ledge]

skilled

for me it is fine

[crystal stream]

To survive

[dusky surge]

eh

i mean that's not a great insentive lmao

[steep gazelle]

"I'm going to grow a 3.8-5.4 ton dinosaur so I can only run from everything, yee"

[spiral ledge]

like you need to spend a lot of hours with it to be a pro and in that moment you will be able to kill most of the rooster , but you need to grind a lot

[crystal stream]

Why would I fight something that if there 2 of I get pinned and lose all my growth

[spiral ledge]

like the carno drift in the past and things like that , that you need to grind a lot of hours to be a pro

[steep gazelle]

1v1...

[crystal stream]

Another allo jumps out the bush and you die

[spiral ledge]

pounce is a bad mechanic , shouldnt be in a 4t dino

[crystal stream]

Allos 2.6

[spiral ledge]

prime 3.7

[elfin night]

Nah

[crystal stream]

Not everyone’s getting prime

[elfin night]

I’m fine with pounce more often than not save for solo pinning

[crystal stream]

But yeah pin does suck

[spiral ledge]

if you doesnt caught prime you are literally dead xddddddd

[crystal stream]

What bro

[golden tapir]

if you dont get prime might as well suicide

what a horrible system the elder system is it makes all matchups unfair

[spiral ledge]

i do that , if i get the bad elder insta slay

[golden tapir]

same

[dusky surge]

wow that's... really boring lmao

[crystal stream]

Yall lame as hell gotta at least go out with style

[golden tapir]

its unplayable if youre not prime

[dusky surge]

"the elder system sucks!"

"if i don't get the exact outcome i want i don't engage with the system"

yea i wonder

[crystal stream]

If you can move you can play

[golden tapir]

because thats how overpowered prime is. if youre adult and opponent is prime you might as well roll over and die

[golden tapir]

its not fun playing when youre punished 20x more

[crystal stream]

Is it fun for the sick buffalo to get targeted by the lion pride

I don’t think so

[golden tapir]

no

but this is a game lol. it should be fun thats why i suicide

[spiral ledge]

and in most of the cases they run faster than you , if you dont die in a pvp you died from one of your own specie , fastest and stronger

[dusky surge]

"it should be fun that's why i suicide"

and suiciding is fun??

you still get rewards and you still die if you entomb, so you should still aim to entomb

[golden tapir]

more fun than playing a super weak playable because i didnt get prime

[dusky surge]

isn't juvi a super weak playable?

just not really gathering your mindset here

[golden tapir]

yes i thought of this but it takes too long since diets dont affect growth. I can suicide at 75% and then grow another one from 25% to 75% by the time i reach 75% to 100%

[crystal stream]

Tbf you have something to look forward to as a juvi tho

[dusky surge]

hell, elder decline only happens very late, for the most part, a frail is just like a regular adult

[dusky surge]

you have something to look forward to after you entomb too

[golden tapir]

so if you dont get prime rex for example youll just wait 9-10 hours to entomb?

[crystal stream]

I will say ending urself instead of just playing as soon as you find out you didn’t get prime is just lame the whole point of the system was to make it so that there is diversity and weaker members

[golden tapir]

u can just grow another rex at that point and get prime

[crystal stream]

Imo

[golden tapir]

because the system is not designed good

this is how you know the system is trash

so many people suicide if they dont get prime

its not just me

[dusky surge]

agreed

it's weird too, because not getting prime still has rewards for entombment, and a lot of really good rewards too

honestly, entombing as a prime vs a frail is hardly a difference, you only miss one out of four mutations, but everything is still buffed

[crystal stream]

I mean they should def rework the system but how would they what would they change

And still keep the diversity it offers

Even if it is kinda cringe

[golden tapir]

make the speed the same. dont play with it and change it because speed changes so many matchups is the first step they can do

[dusky surge]

a lot of people want frail removed but i think that's dull

honestly i just think prime needs to be less of a massive overstep over regular specimens

i think primes and frails should both be slower when elder, just like how cera and allo are, they are ELDERLY after all

especially since prime is putting on so much extra weight

i'd make it that primes trot faster but sprint slower across the board

[spiral ledge]

allo and cera are the uniques decent primes , they cant cannibalize between them

[dusky surge]

except for galli, who i'd make faster as prime because uh

it's galli

[crystal stream]

Primes are like whole other Dino’s

[dusky surge]

galli's whole fantasy is "boy i love being really fast"

[crystal stream]

Think they should be tweaked a lil

[dusky surge]

agreed

prime rex and prime maia are imho the biggest cases of how insane primes can be, these two are SCARY

both are disgustingly fast and massive, completely invalidating other species just by existing

[crystal stream]

I can’t stand cera still

[dusky surge]

cera is honestly fine as a prime

genuinely i think it's one of the best balanced primes

you lose speed, you gain power, fair's fair

[crystal stream]

Nah idgaf abt its prime just cera in general

Can’t stand it

I love playing dibble trying to survive from allos and Rexes only to have two hunchbacks come up and just eat me as first

[dusky surge]

i mean, that is kind of on the fact dibble is uh

not great

teno too

teno less-so, but both teno and dibble got a fat load of nothin' this update

[steep otter]

teno is more of its prime being super underwhelming

[dusky surge]

teno's prime is just the worst prime in the game (besides beipi), dibble got like, multiple nerfs specifically to be rex chow and now it's rex chow (and allo chow too because why not)

[crystal stream]

Yeah but what more could you give then there already rlly strong compared to most of the roster mainly dilo and Omni who ik are pack hunters still struggle hard compared to a corps bully

[dusky surge]

that and honestly its just falling behind the powercreep

[steep otter]

indeed

[dusky surge]

lots of dinos are getting buffed and teno just... isn't

[steep otter]

and dibble is just crying in a corner, trike too

[dusky surge]

it's holding on by the fact that its kit is very skilled and versatile, but it's only getting scraps while other dinos are feasting

[crystal stream]

I actually wanted to play trike when Rex came out out as soon as I saw how bad Rex dookies on trike I stopped wanting to

[dusky surge]

dude the ceratopsians are just... in such a bad spot

there's no reason to play either, you're gonna get destroyed regardless

[steep otter]

allo can survive 4 knockdows + trash if you fight it has dibble btw lmao

[crystal stream]

Dibble imo is still fun bc although yeah it sucks to get ganged up on they weigh 2.6 tons they should be able to kill Mr

[dusky surge]

dibble less than trike because dibble is both just a worse version of fresh sub-trike with lower damage and kill potential, and both cannot remotely fight back against a prime rex and is clobbered by allo groups

trike AT LEAST has the potential to dissuade rexes, albeit not well, and doesn't care that much about allos

[dusky surge]

yea, dibble doesn't have trike's kill power

[crystal stream]

Dibble can survive 10 claw swipes and knock allo down with one move it’s not that allo is better then dibble dibble just to slow to get away form a group

Imo

[dusky surge]

although i think trike and dibble's kits are both inherently flawed and put too much emphasis on the wrong thing

trike's thrash should not be the main cornerstone of its ENTIRE kit

[steep otter]

10? i have seen dibbles bleed out in 3 hits

[crystal stream]

They need to give trikes standing knockdown back

[dusky surge]

it should be a good finisher, sure, but trike's ENTIRE combat plan is built around the thrash

[crystal stream]

If there dumb sure

[crystal stream]

Trike and dibbles knockdown is fun

[steep otter]

for its size, dibbles damage is kinda meeeh especialy for a slow 3 ton animal

[crystal stream]

Dunno why they tryna get rid of it

[crystal stream]

It’s not its dmg thats killer it’s the fact it can knock you to the ground over and over and allos not winning a 1v1 man

[dusky surge]

how i'd do it

dibble:

• buff speed a lil
• buff damage a lil
• give alt-attack a stun/knockdown
• potentially give it the ability to do an omni-directional short dash in spar mode by pressing space, at the cost of a sparring charge. Would massively change its combat style and properly differentiate it from trike

trike:

• nerf thrash damage
• buff damage on all of its other moves rather than thrash
• give alt-attack a stun/knockdown

[steep otter]

the issue arrises when its something it cant knock down. it takes FOREVER for dibble to kill it

[crystal stream]

Nothing that can catch and kill a dibble it can’t knock or at least stun

[steep otter]

id also buff trikes bleed to further make it difent from dibble, since dibble barely does bleed

[crystal stream]

Maybe execpt Rex ofc

Bc it’s broken

[steep otter]

or make so trikes trash deasl much less damage but tons of bleed

[dusky surge]

that'd be interesting

[crystal stream]

Good idea

[dusky surge]

i feel like we might be getting too many bleed guys now, i like the idea of just "raw damage"

[crystal stream]

Rex

[steep otter]

rex deals surprising low dps

[dusky surge]

rex is fracture

[steep otter]

more of a fracture focused

[crystal stream]

Doesn’t feel low when it pins me and kills me instantly

[dusky surge]

i assume it'll probably be

rex fracture
giga bleed
spino raw damage + tankiness

[crystal stream]

Yuck spino

[golden tapir]

acro probably endurance

[dusky surge]

i dont think about acro

just in general i choose to ignore the fact that it is what it is

[golden tapir]

oh ok

[steep otter]

stam drain

[golden tapir]

well yeah if youre not similar weight dont expect to fight a rex

[crystal stream]

Chonky boi being endurance

[dusky surge]

whats wrong with spino lmao

[steep otter]

acro whole thing is choking stuff

[golden tapir]

yeah acro is going to be cool

[crystal stream]

It’s a kaiju in a game that’s supposed to simulate a functioning ecosystem plus it’s just ugly

[steep otter]

spino claw swipes will have insane dps watch

[crystal stream]

I’m not

[dusky surge]

i mean

we already got kaijus in this game idk

also a functioning sci-fi ecosystem can have a kaiju

it is sci-fi after all

[crystal stream]

Ig but the last thing I wanna deal with while having a nice herd of Mia is seeing a jp clone spino going after a Rex because he genuinely thinks spino should be able to kill a Rex

[steep otter]

tbh, monster spino will be able to

[golden tapir]

rex should definetly win on land

[steep otter]

likely will be the best of the big 4 at 1v1s

[golden tapir]

just make spino more of a water apex that can sustain himself off of fish

[crystal stream]

Ofc it will let’s give spino some badass lasers to

[dusky surge]

i mean, i'm fine with a spino killing a rex, but the rex needs to mess with the spino first for that to happen

[golden tapir]

yeah hopefully its balanced lol

[crystal stream]

It just should not exist

[dusky surge]

nah its awesome

[crystal stream]

I just don’t even want to see it’s

Ugly face

[dusky surge]

i dont understand why people get so upset over spino being fictionalised when so many other things are so heavily fictionalised

[crystal stream]

Good thing there aquatic

Won’t have to see em as much

[steep otter]

iam sure some pvp nerds will be able to 1v1 rexes with acros

[dusky surge]

it'll be coming onto land a lot lmao

in terms of "aquaticness", bary is the most aquatic spinosaurid

[steep otter]

spíno is a close second, and sucho is the more land guy

[dusky surge]

yea

[crystal stream]

And Barys sick why can ppl just take deino and be happy

Why gotta get Godzilla in

[dusky surge]

because spino's an entirely different niche from deino

[crystal stream]

To make the jp3 kids happy

[dusky surge]

it ain't gonna be ambushing lmao

[steep otter]

it does seem to have lunge on its concept art

[dusky surge]

it's a massive brawler apex, which is the last niche not filled by rex and spino

[crystal stream]

Who cares all it’s gonna do is waddle around and look dumb anyway

[dusky surge]

you could say that about bary too

[crystal stream]

But barys sick

[dusky surge]

so is spino

[crystal stream]

It’s different

[steep otter]

i hope they oversize acro a bit

[crystal stream]

It makes me sick yeah

[dusky surge]

it runs in the family

both spino and bary are awesome

sucho is my fave tho

[crystal stream]

Just vary not Godzilla

[steep otter]

and sucho dont forget the poor pelican

[crystal stream]

Sucho is sick to

Love Sucho and bary

Spino can go back to JP3

[dusky surge]

i just dont get why you hate spino beyond you decided to hate it

it's no less JP than rex or omni

[crystal stream]

Bc both have better roles and even though yeah there just jp clones they match the ecosystem so much better

[dusky surge]

spino has a great role wdym

[crystal stream]

Like it wouldn’t make sense to have a feathered raptor on a jungle island

[dusky surge]

we're getting one

several feathered raptors, actually

[crystal stream]

What it gonna do besides dooki on crocks

[dusky surge]

utahraptor, austroraptor

[crystal stream]

Austro fine cus it stil matches the vibe

Spino don’t

[dusky surge]

bully things away from bodies and water, be a mega brawler, genuinely just play as a dominant force that forces players to not be stagnant and stay moving

it keeps the ecosystem active and aware

[crystal stream]

Deino but even more annoying

[dusky surge]

deino doesn't do that, it's not even a brawler

[crystal stream]

Cool can’t wait for spinokaiju

[dusky surge]

deino is more like a water rex than it is like spino

[crystal stream]

No it’s not but spino should def not be a brawler

[dusky surge]

why the hell not lmao

[crystal stream]

Thing needs to stay in the deep dark depths where it belongs

[dusky surge]

it's big as hell and got big ass claws and its slow

[dusky surge]

deino is the depth boy

[crystal stream]

Spino just pmo idk man

Don’t belong

Never will belong

[dusky surge]

it literally belongs perfectly

this is a game where there is already tons of JP animals

or sci-fi fictionalisations

[crystal stream]

Take the jp 3 spino then add more spikes to it and call it a day

It’s almost worse then

Ugh rebirth

I’d be more happy with the old model

[dusky surge]

you say that as if the omniraptor or rex aren't even more like JP than spino is

spino is more original than them lmao

[crystal stream]

Even if it’s gonna be taking on Rexes

[dusky surge]

also old spino model was foul lmao

looked so dumb

"ah yes this walking billboard is a true terror"

[crystal stream]

Looked better the something Hollywood would cook up

[dusky surge]

brother most of this game is like that

herrera is an iguana, beipi is a penguin, dilo is a messy unkempt freak, rex and raptor (you already know my point), galli is a goose

[crystal stream]

Hang on I’m feeding my Mia

[dusky surge]

this game is like, majority hollywood designs lmao

[crystal stream]

Gimmie a sec

[dusky surge]

trike is really funny because anyone who knows what a trike looks like knows trike is just... wrong, but its built like a cow in this game because hollywoodification

[crystal stream]

I think there is a very clear misunderstanding

Everything else in this game looks somewhat

Somewhat like a real animal

Spino looks like an absolute child tryed to make it

Although yeah some do look like jp clones or a lil over exaggerated mainly primes for the most part it passes for me

As long as it’s not all just spikes and and croc armor

[steep otter]

Becouse irl spino would not fit the vibe

[dusky surge]

spino doesn't even have like, any spikes on it for an isle design

teno is spikier than spino lmao

it looks spiky in elder but EVERYTHING looks spiky in elder, they like to do that

[crystal stream]

Last time I checked the spin on spino looked like a saw blade

[crystal stream]

How about no spino

[dusky surge]

i mean... spino always had a spiny looking spine

[crystal stream]

Problem solved

[crystal stream]

Nr

Looked more like a spin dud

[dusky surge]

nah, spino is def needed for this ecosystem

helps curb those overconfident players who assume they're safe just because "oh i'm a big deino and i just hide underwater" or "oh i'm a big rex so nothing can fight me"

great equaliser

and then spino itself is moderated by the fact it's slow so it can't hunt effectively so it just kinda starves out if theres too many

[crystal stream]

But who in there right minds gonna fight it if it jst gonna win

Actually maybe some dumbas would

[dusky surge]

pretty much just jump it

if spino is slow, its biggest weakness will inevitably be getting jumped

[crystal stream]

But why

What’s the point

[dusky surge]

cuz you want to do your thing in peace without a spino getting all up in it

same as why you'd kill a cera

if it's lurking around it's gonna be an issue later

[crystal stream]

I don’t kill cera they kill me

[dusky surge]

it's a cera, its job is to make itself your problem

spino is just that, on a much bigger, much slower scale

and probably without the corpse buffs and all the other nonsense cera has

[crystal stream]

IMO carni on carni combat shouldn’t be pushed

[dusky surge]

big defensively oriented brawler carnivore that controls space aggressively and makes it everyone else's problem by stealing food, controlling water and obliterating people who stand against it

[crystal stream]

I think yeah sure they might have some competition carnivores going outright hunting other carnis is kinda lame

[dusky surge]

it should, but for certain dinos

cera for one, should ABSOLUTELY be all about fighting carnis, not herbis, since its goal is to take someone else's food

cera shouldn't be hunting as much as just bullying other carnis tho

deino should just hunt anything it can see, regardless of what it is

[crystal stream]

Yeah that I can get behind

[dusky surge]

and spino should be similar in that it operates on the idea of bullying, not hunting

the biggest bully which forces respect but has absolutely no real hunting power of its own so it just thrives on either opportunistic kills or someone else's hard work

[crystal stream]

Ig still ugly tho

[stark ether]

#balance-feedback message

Herbivores that aren’t your own kind (sometimes even your own kind) are just competition for food resources and eliminating them makes sense

As for Realism, herbivores kill other herbivores

As for Gameplay, so long as herbivores follow the balance mechanics of “if you can’t fight it, you can escape it”, then I see no reason to force them to be friendly

I’m all for giving herbivores something interesting to do besides walk and eat/drink though

[crystal stream]

Jst dookied on 2 prime carnos as a adult Mia Carno is such a joke

[dusky surge]

i mean, those carnos were

[regal tulip]

Yeah concerning the nesting prime requirement it should honestly be "raise hatchlings to juvenile" since that is when they technically don't need you anymore and get even kicked out of your group if it's full. Them reaching sub is literally impossible before you get to adult unless you drain all your diets.

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message what do you mean nerfing TRIKE

And its turn rate no less

[faint robin]

Nerfing trike turn💀

[elfin night]

When it is already one of the slowest in the game

[faint robin]

Like trike's turn is not already one of the worst turns ingame

[junior jay]

Wdym trikes turn is fast

[elfin night]

It’s not at all

[faint robin]

It's not and most of it's attacks are stationary

Cera outturns trike and dibble even w spar

[elfin night]

Also Rex turn rate nerfed by 60%

Meaning that if you could for example turn fully in, say, 3 seconds, now it would take over 6 😭 😭 😭

[dusky surge]

I mean

It’s cera

[elfin night]

And yeah ceratopsian turn is so bad in evrima. You get carried by the slide

[junior jay]

Thats cause they should

[dusky surge]

It has one of the best turns in the game

[elfin night]

Miss the old days where dibble and trike had a good movement turn

[faint robin]

Why does cera need to outturn dibble?

[elfin night]

To kill a dumb, pacifist herbivore duh

[junior jay]

Dibble can use slide to out turn cera

[faint robin]

Cera shouldn't even 1v1 dib to begin with

[dusky surge]

Imma be real why did you choose cera of all animals to make this argument with

[junior jay]

I never said it should xd

[faint robin]

Dibble can't disengage cera

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message also making it not only so that Rex KEEPS the ambush but then restricting the crush to the ambush

You just can’t royally smack an allo that got too close anymore while you were chilling. Biting is the only way now

[faint robin]

Allo turns good too

[junior jay]

I made APEX balance changes not mid tier

[faint robin]

So midtiers just ahhride apexes?

[dusky surge]

While standing yea it’s an insane turn

[junior jay]

Muzzle swing

[hard prawn]

who in goodnesss gracious is losing a cera v dib 1v1

[junior jay]

Have you heard of things called alt attacks

[dusky surge]

It’s a very easy matchup for a smart cera

[faint robin]

Yeah that 1 year long attack on a trike

[hard prawn]

ive definitely won 1v3s on dib againsty ceras before

[faint robin]

Only good alt attacks are rex's, trike's alts are very slow

[junior jay]

If you spam them ofc gonna lose

Just time them well

[hard prawn]

lowk just unbind your alt attack

[faint robin]

Attack itself is long enough for midtier to react and evade

[junior jay]

Predict

[faint robin]

Not on rex tho, that thing not only alt attacks very fast but can also alt knockdown you

[elfin night]

Maybe I’m dumb when I play cera, but I don’t know if it’s easy enough to the point where I can take it confidently

It’s absolutely doable against bad dibbles, but it feels like the risk is high if you’re alone without terrain and the guy can slide

[faint robin]

Trike shouldn't have this hard time fighting a cera

[junior jay]

Trike already heals every mid tier bite dmg In under 10 sec

[elfin night]

Still

I would rather fight dibble than teno

[hard prawn]

i think teno miiight be overtuned but not enough for me to care

[elfin night]

Nah

Teno is good, maybe even needing some buff depending on how they’ve handled elder cera

Only herbivore I think is genuinely a little overtuned and needing a nerf is Maia

And I love playing Maia but the damage is so bonkers

[junior jay]

Nah maia is perfect

[hard prawn]

is maia really that strong?

i havent played it in like a month

[elfin night]

Got a massive damage buff in the HT

[junior jay]

Basicly doubled In dmg

[elfin night]

It’s fine all around but those damage values should be toned down

It’s supposed to be good at survivability and speed while trading off the damage

It shouldn’t have higher damage than things like dibble

[junior jay]

I mean 3.4 ton herbi stomping you should do 500+ dmg

[hard prawn]

is Dibble good right now

[elfin night]

I don’t care if it’s realistic. Balance takes priority

[elfin night]

❌

[hard prawn]

Damn

[elfin night]

Dibble is arguably at its lowest right now

[junior jay]

I agree that balance is important

[hard prawn]

I got 2 tapped by a trike earlier because I attacked it

[elfin night]

But not because its stats were originally bad

It’s just having to deal with ambush Rex

Or allo packs

[hard prawn]

powercreep

I made a Maia friend and it also got two tapped by the trike and that's why i attacked it :(

[elfin night]

Not really

Powercreep would be getting a playable that is arguably just a way better version of the previous one. I would have said it for allo in regards to Omni but it seems Omni got buffed, so whatever

It’s just dibble being built for a meta where cera and carno were its only concerns

Now it needs to be adjusted again like what happened to stego

[junior jay]

Trike is just better dibble at the same weight

[elfin night]

At least stego is significantly better off now than it was in the early rex HT

[hard prawn]

Powercreep isn't necessarily that, it's just the overall concept of Dibble not being designed around fighting rexes or allos

[elfin night]

Disagree. Hard disagree

If anything dibble is all around a better trike at the expense of less health

[junior jay]

Stego is op

[hard prawn]

But I get what you mean

[elfin night]

Nah stego is fine

Doing exactly what it should be doing

[elfin night]

Which only implies that trike is bad as well

[junior jay]

Dibble at 3 tons need around 3-4 thrash to Kill cera trike at 3 tons needs 1

[hard prawn]

I don't think that's true

[elfin night]

Not a good measure to define wha is or isn’t a good playable

[elfin night]

It’s maybe true since trike thrash is way stronger than dibble’s

[junior jay]

Stego beats rex 80% of the time and takes 4h less to grow

[hard prawn]

Dibble has a way more applicable stun??

I feel like that stumps the whole trike v dibble argument

[elfin night]

A poorly played rex dies to a defensive herbivore meant to be able to defend itself from large carnivores.

Fork found in kitchen

[junior jay]

The problem is that stego is faster

[junior jay]

Takes only 6h

[elfin night]

It does yeah

Better shove, faster, less duration for an atrocious early game, better slide when adult, better sparring…

The only thing where trike is better is health and damage, but it is far less flexible

[elfin night]

And its main weapon is on the rear, meaning that it cannot really use it offensively without getting punished hard

[elfin night]

I don’t think hours alone should determine who is stronger necessarily. Matchups also matter

[junior jay]

You can use it offensively...

[hard prawn]

I think trike is fine comparatively but it's just a statblock

[junior jay]

Go Oasis fight King then Come back

[elfin night]

Cant rn

[elfin night]

Using the most stamina hungry attack in the entire game that also holds you in place and can be anticipated and countered with a crush or muzzle swing

[junior jay]

If you muzzle swing ur gonna get hit with 4 powerswings.

And then you cant run

Only way rex can escape is trees

[dusky surge]

Nah, he’s 100% right. With the nerfs to dibbles speed and the buffs to trike’s juvi turn speed, trike at 3 tons is simply better in almost all regards

Better damage, nearly equal speed, strong agility, equal or greater in other stats

[junior jay]

Dont forget the trike juvi dmg buff

[dusky surge]

Trike is bad, and yet it’s just objectively better than dibble

[junior jay]

Trike is only bad against rex tho

Against everything Else it wins

[dusky surge]

Also I disagree, I think dibble launched with really poor stats and was only carried by the fact it coexisted with smaller carnivores

And in the case of cerato, the “small carnivore” thing didn’t even matter because cera could still destroy it

Dibble has poor damage for its size, really poor. Mixed with its low speed, poor agility, the constant nerfs to its drift and spar movements and we end up with what we have now

If Diablo kept its high movement with its drift and omnidirectional movement, it could’ve both stood apart from trike and been viable even with its low damage

[faint robin]

Rex kills stego 1v1