balance-feedback-discussion

[dawn cipher]

Yeah I have no clue why he thought he would survive just trading hits LMAO

And actively ran away from the body that would buff him

[tight cove]

maybe he was just lagging hard, the HT servers got terrible ping 😭

[slim narwhal]

maia was a good for both sides before now maia just demolishes cera

[dawn cipher]

This is on live branch, afaik replay is still disabled on HT

[tight cove]

oh wow, that guy just sucks straight up lmao

[slim narwhal]

nah u can see how bad he is by how he doesn't try to bait the maia to miss its hit

[tight cove]

true

[dawn cipher]

I started off trying to make distance in order to shove + stomp, but when I realized he wasn't using charge bite I knew I'd win the trade, easier to hit him if he thinks he can tailride a maia xP

It used to be more balanced for teno, but ever since they made it so charge bite negates the tail slap stun, it feels pretty terrible from the teno side. Their bleed makes carnos think twice, but cera can just facetank donkey kicks and charge bite you to death because of its bleed resist

[slim narwhal]

even with tail slap stun it's easy for the cera

u can just bait tenos so easy

they cant hit anything

the best tenos i have ever seen were the ones that run at you with the claws

those things hurt fr

[dawn cipher]

I mean any fight is easy if your opponent is baitable xD But if you slap + position for 2x headshot kicks + alt claw while they're down and immobile, you could do a lot of damage.

[slim narwhal]

yeah im just saying ceras can bait tenos very easy even good players get baited

[dawn cipher]

But there's no downside to charge bite, so ceras get a 100% uptime stun/stagger immunity for No Reason as long as they hold the button. So even good tenos who avoid being baited are still not rewarded for actually landing hits

[slim narwhal]

yeah charge bite should make you lose stam after u hold it for to long

[dawn cipher]

I think it should:

• Take longer to reach full charge
• Reduce speed and/or turn radius
• Drain stam after being held for ~7 seconds
• Cause a self-stun if held for longer than ~13 seconds

[slim narwhal]

just leave speed and turn radius

that i love about it

like i hate allo rn because of it

[dawn cipher]

I feel like a small speed reduction from current values would make sense while charge bite is held, but you can keep turn radius xP

[slim narwhal]

they made it so bad it almost hurts playing it

[dawn cipher]

Yeah, it's a bit rough

[slim narwhal]

allos is supossed to fight dibbles and etc and u just die to them

[dawn cipher]

My main thing re: charge bite is that it just deals so much damage and bile that it should be deployed strategically, not spammed without consequence

[slim narwhal]

because they can keep their faces towards you

[dawn cipher]

As a solo allo it depends on skill, though 2 allos can pin a dibble and it's GG

[slim narwhal]

i mean yeah but in a 2v2

u cant do much against a half decent dibble

they have almost the same speed as you and better turn radius

and insane dmg

i my opinion dibble needs a nerf it shouldn't move so dam fast it has 3T

[dawn cipher]

Honestly I think dibble is fine where it is, maia is 3T and much faster

[slim narwhal]

but maia doesn't make u hit the ground with tail hits

that's why i hate it so much

or have insane head resistance

and insane alt attack

and insane dmg with trash attack

dibble is op and idk how ppl can't see it

i think they see a lot of noob ones

because a half decent solo dibble on the live branch kills every cani with 3+ members

join primal heaven death match and u will understand what a good dibble does to you

[steep gazelle]

Cerato applies bile using a normal bite, but a charge bite applies more

Cera also makes anything smaller than him vomit with just one normal bite

And now cera prime weight 2.1t

[slim narwhal]

bs

that im sure

i love to kill raptors and they dont vomit on 1 hit

[dawn cipher]

I don't play dibble, but I have a fun time hunting them. Dib, trike, and stego are soft-countered by small animals like raptor and especially troo -- higher maneuverability, smaller hitbox. Hell, even cera can still wreck dibbles. It depends on the player, their map knowledge, the terrain, resources, etc. I feel like the demographics that spend tons of time on dedicated PvP deathmatch servers (set on flat, open ground, food/water not an issue, etc.) are not the majority of players in everyday play, and therefore the game should not be balanced around their performance under those specific circumstances xD

[slim narwhal]

like i said a bad dibble u can maul them with cera and etc

but a half decent solo dibble will absolutely demolish a pack of 3 ceras easy

raptor cant do anything against dibble sure it can outmaneuver

but 1 alt attack and its almost dead

or a rock and the fight is over

their is a reason why death match servers are filled with dibbles it's kinda even rare to see ceras

not saying deathmatch should be were u see player performance but in terms of pvp it's were u almost always find decent players

And u notice this immediately the moment u pick dibble u can almost kill everything like its nothing u just shove and trash

like i never play dibble but when i pick it i just demolish ppl

[dawn cipher]

I don't think you fully understood what I said about how deathmatch pvp with hardcore pvp players =/= representative of the organic game environment with average players. You say that PvP deathmatch server is the place where you find "decent" players, but I'm talking about the game balance as a whole, not just for one specific population.

Plus, alt attack spammers are super easy to bait/predict. Also also, in normal game environments the fight isn't over with a rock. So you're a raptor and your dibble prey has put its back against a rock, you can't pounce or bite without getting impaled.

• Solution #1: you back off, let them feel comfortable, but they'll have to move for food and water at some point, so you stay nearby and bide your time until you have space to make a move.
• Solution #2: you have friends who can distract, bait, or put pressure on, forcing the dibble to prioritize targets. A full pack can take turns resting, drinking, and even eating AI while other members continue to pressure the primary prey. If it's baitable (and it will probably become increasingly so the longer this goes on), it will run out of stamina. Even with tactile, if it's failing to land hits it's still trading HP for nothing, and you can whittle it down or bleed it to death.
• Solution #3: you can jump, it can't. Climb the rock and pounce on its back from behind, ideally while packmates maintain frontal pressure to stop it from turning around.

And so on. There are a lot more variables in a "real" scenario than on South Plains Warzone Simulator xP

[hasty coyote]

I would much rather them punish running with charged bite aggressively rather than punish them for holding it defensively to stand their ground.

So instead of the reduced turn rad, self stun, and stam drain, just make charged bite increase sprint cost and prob make the cc resistance ramp up with the damage. So if you are just standing your ground to cover a body with charged bite, you are fine. But if you’re just spamming it aggressively or running with it charged, you are gonna get much less value.

[hasty coyote]

It’s based on how much bile you have. If you’re full bile, it does 1-tap vomit on the body with a reg bite.

[dawn cipher]

Endorsed nodnod Or perhaps only penalize if held while moving/sprinting, but no penalty if held while standing/trotting, to reward and encourage actual corpse bully play instead of chasing things down

[elfin night]

Did they fix Rex stamina?

[dusky surge]

i mean

they reduced it

[elfin night]

The wording tells me that it is still inflated

[dusky surge]

it is like

75 seconds

[elfin night]

That’s just mental illness alongside the fracture on all attacks

Why is it so hard to like

Make a playable balanced

[faint robin]

Its a rex

Yk
Dinosaur of the kings or smth like that

[faint robin]

And fracture is still inflated too
2 attacks to fracture trike

[slim dragon]

Well rex had a biteforce of 1235489N so it makes sense actually also ate trikes for every meal

Now deino just needs to have triple that amount and it will all be realistic and paleoaccurate

[faint robin]

Trike should have 0 biteforce cuz it can't bite ingame

[elfin night]

The ultimate destroyer coolest thing ever

I have no doubt the tee wrecks would totally destroy Godzilla in a fight

[valid robin]

@steep otter Unless they nerfed it Pachy should still have fracture damage on its alt attacks, it just only works on similar sized/smaller targets

If you want we can go in dm to test

[dusky surge]

it has never had fracture on its alts since it was added in update 4

[steep otter]

It got Removed

[maiden temple]

Well said, fights are vastly different than 1v1 scenarios on deathmatch servers. These servers are fantastic to learn movesets and experience how much damage you have/can take but not much more. Short burst fights where both sides act 'fair' and fight with full diets, water/food, stamina and HP, and start going at the same time don't really happen in a survival scenario. A carnivore that lets you know you're about to be hunted is at a huge disadvantage from the start and that's good design for the intended purpose.

All of this will be even more true after the elder system drops, since then it will be extremely rare that you find someone at the exact % growth as you as well, adding even more variables to the fight

[maiden temple]

I'd say give it a bite! That's more fair

Pinch attack for that beak

[dawn cipher]

Stego gets one haha, trike can too

[maiden temple]

The nibbles attack

[dawn cipher]

And yeah, deathmatches are 100% good for getting a feel for your dino, being able to try different things and make lots of mistakes without waiting hours in between to grow -- but very few actual fights you encounter in the wild will be as expected in that way.

I tend to play small tiers, and often get stomped in deathmatches on open plains -- but can hold my own much better with ground cover and varied elevation to exploit. I'm not "good," but I'm better than my deathmatch performance would suggest, since map knowledge doesn't express well in PvP arena settings xP

[maiden temple]

I hate short burst fights, it's just not fun when my hunters rush to kill me and end up dying within a minute because of it. Especially ceras, it used to be sooooo scary to vomit and see them play for time because mine was running out quickly. I was the desperate side. Now they're usually dead so quickly I have time to trot to a water spot.

Not even gonna mention raptors :c

[eager saddle]

Not to mention getting caught in non ideal situations, like after you’ve run a bit already and you suddenly get ambushed

[eager saddle]

Raptors heavily depends on how good the raptors are

[maiden temple]

I love hunting herbis that ran around a lot
I really wish gastro and tactile was removed

[eager saddle]

Usually not very good tho

[maiden temple]

I feel like the times of persistent, patient raptors is gone

[eager saddle]

Good thing you didnt encounter my friends and I this week we’re used to hunting 1 target for hours

We starved a stego to death once

[maiden temple]

Sometimes when I find a group I try to tell them not to rush fights because there's no need, especially in the spots where we have safe rocks and tons of boars to eat, but they get battle brain

[eager saddle]

“Guys raptor bad” rushes in like a buffoon

[maiden temple]

That was the way, bleed and hunger

[maiden temple]

Exactly!

[eager saddle]

Like bro look at the environment first😂

[maiden temple]

You can spend that hour sitting on a rock chatting or getting some high risk food

and if there are deinos in the water? Sweet sweet bleed starter

[eager saddle]

We didnt find much that session but we killed a fg cera that was watercamping

Took a solid 45 minutes tho

Gtf drive now, cya later

[maiden temple]

Drive safe

[tulip pond]

my friend said that rex dog walked herds of trikes on its own irl do u agree?

[faint robin]

Was rex fracture nerfed?

[frail bobcat]

no

[tulip pond]

also he said that sue the t-rex was 10.5-15tons

is that true?

[grim moss]

your friend ragebaiting

[tulip pond]

hes arguining about it to some guy on the pot discord

[grim moss]

well good luck to him 😂

[slim dragon]

@grizzled stag please explain

[frail bobcat]

likely lost their rex to it, the troodon won because its speed is superior

[slim dragon]

Makes sense

I once lost a cera to a lone troodon

And it clearly wasn't because I sucked

[vale brook]

if it makes you feel any better... i lost a 70% cera to 3 gallis a couple years ago

this was when galli still had bleed. it was a few patches before it got removed so... i guess gallis were becoming a problem around that time

[slim dragon]

In my defense it was night and my computer screen is quite dark
I'm part of the playerbase who can only stare at a black screen at night

[vale brook]

was this back when people thought cerato being ACTUALLY blind at night was a good idea

[slim dragon]

Maybe
iirc it was pretty soon after troo's release
And funnily enough it's the only time I ever played cera

[vale brook]

oh so this was back during spiro times

cringe...!

[sullen dragon]

Look at the damage tho

Rex damage bunzzzz rn

[faint robin]

Dmg can be 0.5 but if it practically disables trike in 2 hits - its still op

Im all for buffing rex dmg back so as all ppl here

[sullen dragon]

Yeah

That’s what I want too - buff damage, nerf fracture. I don’t know why the devs aren’t listening to anyone on this but it is what it is ig

[faint robin]

Small dmg and fracture is already pachy's role tbh

Rex is mostly a dmger, not an autowin fracture demon it is rn

[sullen dragon]

Maybe the devs want the raw damage role for another playable

So they decided to give Rex the fracture role as an apex

[faint robin]

Trike is kinda raw dmg monster but it doesnt work against the fracture demon

[sullen dragon]

I mean we’ll see what happens

Rex isn’t finished yet, probably still gonna get some balance changes

[faint robin]

I hope so

[timber tusk]

Maybe make it so that the eggs of animals on your own Diet don’t provide any nutrients, so that small animals like Troodon and eventually Oviraptor can still benefit from sneakily stealing an egg, but a Rex can’t be raised by mixpacking Maias. Maybe mixpacking Hypsis, but there’s no way they could keep up with demand, even in a group.

Logically, Eggs should almost be the Sanctuary Mushroom equivalent for carnivores, but not if Mix Packers are going to abuse it to raise their pets with no effort.

Oops, I meant to put that in the actual feedback.

[vale brook]

@mellow ferry i cant help much for the other one but once you start getting hit by bees, you're definitely inside one of the sancs. that should help with the lay problem atleast

sancs are such weird shapes and sizes that it can be hard to know when you're actually INSIDE the sanc or just on the outskirts

[narrow hearth]

Fog at night at Pteranodon makes the screen look like blue Star Wars milk was splashed on it lol. I don't know if this is intended or a bug. on HT. 0.21.286

[tight cove]

@analog mirage what were the recent pin changes?

[analog mirage]

Rex and Allo have to wear down targets much more in order to pin them

[tight cove]

Ty

[viscid mica]

@mellow ferry you don’t have to go to sanc as deino to get prime

[tight cove]

@vagrant plover no because it would be OP troodon is tiny and got a super small hitbox it would be so easy to just keep biting ppls feet and get them envenomated

[vagrant plover]

Have you played Troodon yet? He's not overpowered.

If anything, he's underpowered with all his nerfs

[tight cove]

Juvi troodon sucks rn because it’s way to slow but other than that troodon is good

But if it applied venom with bites it would be too strong that’s all I’m saying

[dusky surge]

would it?

bite has a really small hitbox and it doesn't grant resistance or great movement like pounce

it'd just be another approach, arguably riskier

i genuinely don't see how it'd make or break troodon

because atm the bite is functionally worthless in its kit due to everything i already said

small hitbox, low damage, no venom

[tight cove]

You know what I think your right

[vagrant plover]

His bite speed is already slow enough to justify the change.

He bites slower than Dilo.

[dusky surge]

also you raised a good point with the water thing

troodon is an excellent swimmer, it'd be awesome if it could use that more frequently

[tight cove]

The reason I think they devs made troodon only apply venom with pounces was to make it different than dilo but overall I changed my mind, why not make troodon apply venom with bites lol

I’ll remove my X

[dusky surge]

also venom stacks are still, y'know, timed, so its not like the change would mean troodon can instantly get you to stage 3

all it'd do is diversify hunting strategies

[golden coral]

Make troodon apply venom with bites, remove the minigame and let it just stack venom, and change the pounce to a "pass by" sort of lunge/pounce for damage only, and make it a proper horde playable

[tight cove]

Max stack of venom shouldn’t last long then

[twilit seal]

Allo pin limit is 50% now, grapple might take more than 100% of target weight too but didnt test it

[vagrant plover]

Max stacking shouldn't just end in nothing.

It should have a weakening effect afterward.

It shouldn't be 0-1-2-3-0, but rather 0-1-2-3-2-1-0.

If a attack doesn't increase the level again.

It's strange that it goes from being most effective to having no effect at all.

Especially if it's supposed to be Venom.

[twilit seal]

Troodon is in a good spot idk why ppl constantly want buffs, it does what it does perfectly fine, and its quite difficult to fight them. You have no counter play other than camping or predicting with alt attacks, they are hard to see and hit

[golden coral]

Do you know if this applies to rex too or how does it work?

[twilit seal]

no i didnt test it, but its likely the same

[golden coral]

I don't neccesarily want it to be buffed, rather a little bit reworked I suppose. I just don't think the current pounce "minigame" fits with the idea of a horde playable that troodon otherwise seems to be, hence I'd change it around if/when we get the ability to do that. Just like how I'd change a few other critters in various ways.

[twilit seal]

i personally like that it supports more coordination

if you reworked it then you get 100 damage pounces instantly, youll melt everything

like bite doing venom is the only change i could get behind

its a low skill, easy to grow dino, if you had it melting everything its problematic

[vagrant plover]

There are tons of counters.

You can't pounce head-on.

You're limited by the environment.

You can be stripped of.

You can be attacked while hanging onto pray or jumping off.

Going into the water.

And so on.

And Juvi is extremely difficult.

That's the main focus for the desired buffs.

[twilit seal]

so the same problems any pouncer has? but the fact that it grows 5x faster than an omni, yeah, who wouldve thought. Juvie speed i agree with

[vagrant plover]

He also starves 5 times faster.

With fewer food options.

His stomach is completely empty in 10 minutes after spawning.
Und He only gets venom with 50% sadly

[twilit seal]

if you find literally anything thats dead, youre set

but yes, juvie is flawed

doesnt mean it needs combat buffs as adult

[vagrant plover]

Adult does require some minor adjustments, but Juvi is far more important.

Juvi need speed and venom.

[twilit seal]

speed yeah, venom no, and what could adult troodon need?

[vagrant plover]

For example, that he doesn't pin any group members.

He's a pack animal with up to 10 members. Good group cooperation should be a given for them.

Now, large packs are more dangerous than prey.

[twilit seal]

friendly fire is such a skill issue argument, just be more coodrinated, watch what others are doing. ppl want to be hand held all the time i swear

[vagrant plover]

Troodon is already the dinosaur that requires the most skill. That can easily be added to the mix.

[twilit seal]

hahaha, "the most skill", yeah very hard to look for openings and press rmb

[vagrant plover]

Yes, if you want to survive and have to do that 30 more times.

[twilit seal]

if anyone can pick it up and make it work, its not skilled. try maia for example, or fight tenos as carno, then tell me how hard troodon is

[twilit seal]

thats quite easy with everything troodon has going on rn, the fog, the size, the agility, it is top 3 easiest playable for sure, a beginner playable

[golden coral]

Well, you'd obviously have to change other things around, like venom strength, how easy it affects something based on weight, and such. I do find it a little silly that three pounces gets a rex to stage three just as well as a carno. (unless that has been changed, I don't know to be honest)

[golden coral]

That'd probably be teno and maia, or similar. Playables with lots of options, requiring you to know when to use what, and how to handle various threats in various ways.

[twilit seal]

ah so you want it to differ depending on target like dilo? but then i feel like there would be more complaints, it makes troodon venom kinda unique

[golden coral]

I would do it that way yes, mostly cause it A, gives better opportunity to make it more powerful/debilitating (people have complained that targets can just run away and let the timer reset) while limiting that punch up melting potential, and B, cause it just seems silly to me that you can basically "troll" a large playable that you're not killing anyway (unless rexes do get killed by troodon packs?), by just inflicting the effect and not much else (more so now with the fog and all)

Though I'd rework dilo too, not a fan of the shadow clones, I wish it leaned far more into using them as distractions, being much more of a deceptive "illusionist" playable, where you need to use your venom to give yourself openings for the killing strike

[twilit seal]

when dilo first came out, it was like that, clones acted more like players, and you could fake act like clones yourself, and the target could hit the clones first to make them disappear

it was much better, but they werent as effeective and wouldnt work on difficult terrain

[golden coral]

I know, there were supposed to be some kind of counterplay, not sure how that is currently, considering how broken the clones are. But that's part of why I would consider maybe not using clones, or letting the dilo see them, so you can tell if it's working, and what your target is seeing to capitalize on that. And there was a time the clones were visible, so technically that could be going from bug to feature.

Overall I'd just like dilo more if it was more deceptive, rather than inflict venom and then either sit back and watch target die to invisible strikes, or give up because your clones aren't working at all

[twilit seal]

I think, it should just have a longer cooldown, and get charges back if you hit the target again to spawn more, that makes it a more active playstyle

[viscid mica]

Many people seem to have no played HT dilo it’s significantly weaker purely cuz the Ai are dummer and get stuck or just straight up miss

[tight cove]

Nice

[tight cove]

I agree

[haughty grotto]

@tight cove pretty sure prime allo pins prime cera

[tight cove]

It doesn’t if the max weight is 3.9 tons and the cera weighs 2.1 tons and this new 50% weight threshold is true, and imo that’s kinda a problem for the cera vs allo matchup

[haughty grotto]

Oh it's 50% now? Damn

It would look so ridiculously weird
Giant allo hanging off the side of a cera

[tight cove]

Lmao but it’s true apparently 😭

So ultimately the cera either gets away or kills you 💀

[maiden temple]

It should just drag behind it while holding on to its side at this point xD

[dusky surge]

its not meant to hang off in the finished animation

its feet will be planted on the ground

[haughty grotto]

Yeah esp since it has such good bleed resist

[haughty grotto]

I know I know
Still weird imo

[maiden temple]

Nah if it grapples it's fine

[haughty grotto]

Any living creature can easily pin down something that's 60-70%ish of their weight

[maiden temple]

I cannot Especially if it wiggles

[haughty grotto]

We can talk about combat balance all we want
But this is just cera bias, it has no business fighting a prime allo that's almost double its weight

And then run off saying hee hee whenever it wants

[maiden temple]

Cera can still be pinned most of its life, no?

It's ok if you can't pin a prime which doesn't last that long anyway

[haughty grotto]

Much faster growth, more commonly found in larger groups
Makes a big difference

[maiden temple]

It's getting slowed down iirc, so they might end up being just as fast as allos

[tight cove]

No way will they ever make cera the same speed or slower than allo

[maiden temple]

It's meant to stand its ground, especially around a body so it can't be a one tap kill

[tight cove]

It will always be a lil faster

[tight cove]

That’s the idea but in reality it can do that and also do anything else it wants 😭

[maiden temple]

That's why I refer to future changes, I doubt the dev team is nearly done with balancing allo itself

Ceras will have to live in open areas to not get ambushed by allos and I'm here for it

I wonder if the stability bonus from body + held charge could affect pin as well

Allo should be faster than a cera holding a charge, but slower when it does not, ideally

[sullen dragon]

It can’t fight it

It just doesn’t get insta pinned by one button lol. I’m glad pins are getting nerfed they’re ruining the game

[vagrant plover]

Thanks

[tight cove]

np

[twilit seal]

I do think the previous 65% was fine, but I personally wouldnt really pin against multiple ceratos anyway, its just weird cuz in the concept art allo was indeed toppling a cera

It couldve been reduced to 60%

[valid robin]

Bro no way prime Cerato will beat prime Allo in a 1v1 unless the Allo is playing the game with a blindfold on

Same thing with normal adult Cerato vs normal adult Allo

And if you sum up the weight of a group of dinos and have them equal or very slightly exceed the weight of a larger Dino then have them fight, the group usually wins. For example, 3 good Omnis beat a Carno. 2 Dilos can beat a Carno. 3 allos can beat a Rex. 100 troodons can beat a stego. I would guess 2 Ceratos can beat an allo but I’m pretty sure it’s a 50/50. and if there’s 2 allos, the Ceratos are probably cooked even if they bring 4

[rigid tulip]

so true

if a cera is good enough to kill a prime allo LET HIM

LET PEOPLE BE GOOD

#DELETEPINS

https://tenor.com/view/revolte-revolution-france-revolution-francaise-bastille-gif-24476067

the most fun i have EVER had in this game was killing prime carno as a troodon in isla spiro

letting people pull off incredible things makes the game more fun

if you lose to a troodon as a carno you deserved it

size and damage differences are already enough. we dont need hard stop "no-no" features

and we certainly dont need combat being reduced to "bigger thing kills smaller thing in one button because it dare existed near it"

[valid robin]

You also don’t see these people in favor of Allo pinning Cerato because he’s 65% of his weight saying the same thing about stego and Rex

[rigid tulip]

allo has been my favorite dinosaur since I was 7 years old brother

I will NEVER touch that pinslop creature

[faint robin]

https://youtu.be/zpbG3ixjHfE?si=HhCR3nug8-9WA9oj in the last fight sub/adult rexes break prime trike in 3 hits
Looks like subs tho
2 of those crushes were head on in the face

[sullen dragon]

No

Rex having a pin is fine

If a 12 ton monster catches you and you’re not an apex you sure as hell gonna get pinned it makes sense

[maiden temple]

It's the only way slow hunters can catch and kill fast prey, the idea is good

Plus it encourages ambushing

[jovial badger]

I feel like Cerato is missing some dmg or am I crazy?

[steep gazelle]

You are very crazy

Cerato currently has one of the highest damage abilities

Prime Cera with Damage Mutation deals more damage than Deino

[jovial badger]

So my problem is not dmg, but missing everytime?

[neon willow]

Or not hitting where you think you're hitting. Tail hits do less damage, and tail tip hits do a LOT less damage

Body and leg hits do normal damage, and head hits do more damage (except for ceratopsians and pachy, which take less damage on head hits for obvious reasons)

[jovial badger]

Probably that one

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[twilit seal]

This vid was on US 5x i believe judging from the lag, so before the last adjustment patch

[neon willow]

If the other dino made a pain sound when you hit them, but it seems like you're doing no damage, then that's probably the culprit. Especially if you're chasing your target down

Back before stego got the power swing, it was possible for a Utah/Omni to survive a tail swing if it registered on the tail tip hitbox. Just to give you an idea of how big that tail tip damage reduction modifier is

I assume it's still possible because I don't think the basic stego attack has changed damage much... But I haven't personally tried adult stegos often since the power swing was added

[jovial badger]

I don't know why, but the audio from the game, doesn't work properly, some times it makes sounds and other times it doesn't

[neon willow]

That's... Frustrating 😅 hopefully they fix some of the bugs in this game

[sullen dragon]

Can we stop spreading misinformation this has already been fixed

[fossil scaffold]

Allo definitely need to be faster very underwhelming at the moment considering you can get ran down by everything and can’t even run especially considering the rex is faster surely the Allo should be a little faster like about the same as a cerato

[faint robin]

Fracture on rex wasn't nerfed man...

[sullen dragon]

It was adjusted for the smaller Rexes so they can’t able to do what u saw in the video

[faint robin]

Where is it stated

[sullen dragon]

Announcements…

[faint robin]

Cuz theres a literal vid of smaller rexes breaking prime trike in 2 bites post patch

[sullen dragon]

Bro that’s a prime Rex

[faint robin]

I only see "fixed tyrannosaurus fracture offsets" is it the nerf?

[sullen dragon]

Yes

Since smaller Rexes were able to fracture big things ez

[faint robin]

Not full prime judging by the size

[sullen dragon]

Now it doesn’t work anymore

[sullen dragon]

Brother that’s a prime Rex

[faint robin]

Still fractures trike in 2 hits, core problem not solved

[sullen dragon]

Yeah that’s still op lowk

Let’s see what the devs cook

[faint robin]

Yeah

Good to hear abt small rex stuff tho, thanks

[haughty grotto]

All your examples are correct, except for allo and cera.
Trust me, ceras can kill allos v fast while they are pouncing or pinning other ceras. The vomiting constantly interrupts them and drains their stamina pool. They can run and kite allos easily as well.
3-4 ceras can beat 2 allos easily. Their bite does more damage than allos bite.

[valid robin]

Unless it was buffed last patch, fg allo bite is 175 and Cerato is 150. Similarly, prime is 200 vs 175 allo vs Cerato

Allo has way faster hitspeed, and prime allo is dangerously close to being as fast as prime

Cerato does have charge bite, but it’s hitspeed is considerably slower

I have literally watched a prime allo 3 v 1 1 prime Ceratos and 2 normal Ceratos and still drop the prime Cerato simply because he didn’t run away and just face tanked the Cerato

You seriously underestimate Allos bite DPS, I’ve literally face tanked a fully grown dibble (after dodging its charge) and gotten it so low it died after 1 more bite without it even putting me to orange

Cerato can’t even dream about facetanking dibble, Allo does it without breaking a sweat (if you dodge the charge)

Though you do have a point, 4 Ceratos do have a chance against 2 allos, but I would argue its a very close fight, which actually makes things Allo favored from a weight perspective. Stack on top of this that allo is only about 50% longer to grow than Cerato but has a considerably more generous growth curve, i just don’t think allo is in trouble with Cerato

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message WHAT IS THAT STAM COST

😭 😭

[valid robin]

I’m a genuine stego hater, and even I think that’s way too much

That has to be a bug

[twilit seal]

He has body fracture

[dusky surge]

even if he did, which he doesn't seem to be due to the animation not being there, that's STILL too much for even a body fractured powerswing

[twilit seal]

You can see at the start of the clip, hunched over

[twilit seal]

It takes 40% with body

Thats not a bug, explanation is just body fracture

[elfin night]

Even then that is such an unreasonable cost

[dusky surge]

^

[twilit seal]

Its standard, body frac is 4x your regular stam cost, nothing to do with stego

[elfin night]

Almost all of his stam GONE

[dusky surge]

like goddamn this thing is meant to bleed things out yet has stamina that bad?

[elfin night]

For one swing

[dusky surge]

so then the point is simple, the regular stam cost is too high

especially on a now specialised bleeder animal

[elfin night]

Further shows why powerswing needs a stam efficiency buff

[twilit seal]

For the bleeder playstyle, yes

Ive been saying remove tactile but buff stam costs

[dusky surge]

Just tested :)

it's NOT a body fracture

that's literally how much it costs

[twilit seal]

Lmao

[dusky surge]

50% stam

[twilit seal]

Thats funny

Maybe they put 50 instead of 5%

What if they were trying to buff it but did the numbers wrong

[twilit seal]

Try alt and running swing?

[elfin night]

Meanwhile Rex getting fractures on headbutts and bites

[dusky surge]

alt is 2.5% now, so i ASSUME something has changed and this is a very ridiculous misinput

[elfin night]

And trike with the 6k damage thrash

Absolute cinema

[twilit seal]

Yeah thats like halved no? Used to be 5%

[dusky surge]

i believe so

[twilit seal]

im pretty sure they halved all stam values then

[dusky surge]

let me get my stam back because i just burnt it all trying to powerswing

[twilit seal]

But accidentally put 50% instead of 5%

[dusky surge]

lmao

yea what a crazy blunder

[twilit seal]

thats pretty funny

[dusky surge]

thank god its HT

[twilit seal]

I mean, theres no point growing anything this week

[elfin night]

Stego can’t catch a break

[twilit seal]

Probably gonna be wipes every day

[dusky surge]

running powerswing costs like, 10%

so yea, they REALLY messed up LMAO

[twilit seal]

10% or like half

I guess it would be 7.5%

thats pretty funny tho, but i guess stego got buffed in theory

Should bug report it

Don was saying they wanted to buff the bleed too, or something along those lines

[dusky surge]

the bleed is already buffed

its currently got less damage and tons of bleed now

[twilit seal]

Ik, i meant again

Like another bleed buff on top of what we had since the change

[twilit seal]

@dusky surge

actually funny mistake

[dusky surge]

they're good changes just uh

maybe add that 0 lmao

[random stump]

#balance-feedback message

We triple rex sprint time and make it so stego can swing twice before no stamina

😄

[sullen dragon]

@random stump Rex should be slower than trike trot wise?

[random stump]

if a trike is spriting then trotting to regen stamina and sprinting and trotting to regen stamina and etc etc etc the trike should be winning that game and escaping the rex

[sullen dragon]

Ha ur funny

[random stump]

aint an issue with trike starting to chase rexes across the map considering herbivores cant track.

[sullen dragon]

Trike should not be trotting down a Rex what so ever and shouldn’t escape. But because of this you make trike stronger than a rex head on. It’s simple

[random stump]

trex run into any form of cover... dissapear. trex very fast in short burst! break line of sight. triceratops, no smell footprints or blood. triceratops unable to track trex as long as trex no chatterboxing or visible. trex get away.

[sullen dragon]

Rex has to constantly be on the hunt since he can’t eat bones and can’t eat rotten meat either. He has to find prey and kill them constantly. It’s also hard to do this when 90% of the roster is faster than you so you have to resort to ambushing. Trex needs the fast trot speed to traverse the map and ambush stuff. The only reason these Rexes aren’t starving is because of the dibble ai. If you nerf Rex to the point he can barely traverse the map then it only affects unofficial players with no ai servers. It’s not healthy for the game. But I would agree that in no case should Rex trot a stego down. You do this by giving stego more stamina than a Rex and better stamina regen ( we talking 50% more stamina regen) so this way even if a Rex has a faster trot than a stego, stego can still escape. But trike tho? Trike doesn’t need to escape. He can defend himself. He’s stronger than a Rex. It just doesn’t make sense for him to be out pacing a Rex when he doesn’t even need to hunt any prey

[tall quiver]

I agree. Trike shouldn't be able to out-trot a rex. But it's still kind of still a bit fast even considering that. Like, even adult allos and dibbles need to micromanage their stam when a prime rex is pursuing them. And it's not like we can't think of other solution to rex' hunger - Let them eat bones. Give them a 'slowed metabolism' state that reduces their hunger drain when stationary or something. It's not black and white, it's possible to think outside the box you've constructed. 😄 👍

[sullen dragon]

Lord have mercy something has to use its brains against a Rex am I right. A Rex is never chasing down a allo or a dibble lol. Allo trot is even faster than Rex at prime

And I don’t want Rex eating bones or rotten meat either

It just makes it a much easier grow

[tall quiver]

I'm sorry? From what I've seen of videos prime rex it's trot is objectively as fast as prime allo, and much faster than adult allo. And I wasn't saying eating bones is the best answer, I gave it as an example of considering options. And I'd argue rex eating bones is a better alternative than rex trotting down things it reasonably shouldn't. Hell, you could even age gate the ability to eat bones to sub-adult+. I'm really trying to get you to think creatively here...

[sullen dragon]

Prime allo actually trots faster than a Rex. Wow if you have so many good ideas how about you give the devs some suggestions instead of insulting me lmao. I was arguing why his idea is bad, and I offered some solutions to make Rex trot not as oppressive as it is now. Do you have a problem with me or something?

[tall quiver]

Huh...? I'm sorry, you lost me, when did I insult you?

[timber tusk]

#balance-feedback message
Actually, an audio cue would probably work better than any visual one. Just have the Ptera do a new “smooth sailing” chirp to tell the player when it can activate a thermal.

[proud anchor]

Sounds like the balance is going exactly as it always does.
Turning way too many knobs, way too far, for select playables.
Turning those same knobs way down for others and never compensating for the changes.

Balance is meant to be a means of balance across a series of weights. Change one weight or another too drastically "Just to see what happens" and you end up losing the sight of what the term "Balance" actually entails.

[viscid mica]

Imma be real I don’t know how I feel about that seems a little too Arcady for evirma. I do agree they need to have more and lower but a very Arcady system like that just.. I dunno sounds wrong

[tight cove]

@viscid mica u know you put an x on your own post right?

[viscid mica]

Yes until someone else clicks it

I make it easily accessible

[tight cove]

alright

[viscid mica]

K now I remove it’s been long enough

[twilit seal]

Allo trot speed got buffed, and rex stam got nerded to 48 secs, so Allo doesnt have to worry much anymore

[dusky surge]

allo did also get its stam nerfed tho

[twilit seal]

I believe it was also around 100 no? I dont know the exact values

Honestly, I dont mind allo speed (maybe im biased) but it will need that speed against groups of ceras etc

Since pin limit is 50%, it cant pin teno or cera, the dinos that people worry about, both of which have better stam

[steep otter]

By a lot of just a little?

Tbh a little less stam for being much faster is not a bad trade

[dusky surge]

by like 30 seconds

i actually think stego has more stam than allo now lmao

[steep otter]

Whut

[dusky surge]

iirc, allo has around 100, whereas stego has more around 110-120

so uh, yea, stego outstams it

ofc allo can just outrun it lmao

[steep otter]

Its fine them

Allo cant pin a cerato anymore

Its funny how a massive allo just stays there latched

[dusky surge]

from what i recall, it cannot pin it anymore no

but it's also getting a less stupid looking animation lmao

[steep otter]

Looks funny

A much larger animal on top of a smaller one

Same happens to teno

[twilit seal]

I think the sides are fine because its technically just a grapple not a pounce, but the back slot looks weird

[dusky surge]

yea, backslot looks awful lmao

[twilit seal]

Im curious to see how they will tackle the back slot, honestly they can just remove it for allo

Like, allo can just have the sides

[dusky surge]

honestly i also think stego just shouldn't have a back slot at all

[twilit seal]

You have other tools to bring down large prey anyway, you dont need pounce

[twilit seal]

Afaik when tail is up, it cant be pounced

[slim dragon]

Omni doesn't need another nerf

[dusky surge]

don't think of it as an omni nerf

[twilit seal]

Omni pin threshold should be nerfed ngl

[slim dragon]

Any buff to any animal is a nerf to omni

[dusky surge]

think of it as a nerf to annoying stupid stuff that makes no sense and makes me angry

[twilit seal]

It can pin same weight stuff, it should be in lane with the rest of the pinners

Up to 660 kilos now too, can pin allos and rexes almost half their lives

[dusky surge]

thats funny lmao

[twilit seal]

Its equally stupid

Like a same size allo cant pin an omni, but omni can pin you

[steep otter]

Omni is just built diferent

[zinc cedar]

Hi, I put my dinosaur to sleep and exited the game two days ago. Now when I log back in, my dinosaur is gone. What's the problem?

[dusky surge]

that would likely be the wipe that happened recently

[indigo rain]

Honestly im in agreement stego shouldnt have a back slot. Youre not getting a good grip with those plates in the way

It would also give it something a little unique over "hi i walk and slap bleed on you"

[hasty coyote]

then you would prob also want to remove the front slot from stego

[timber tusk]

That’s automatic I think.

[hasty coyote]

nah thats only on general feedback

[timber tusk]

More Arcady than Galli’s speed boost mechanic? Or Maia’s parenting buffs? Granted those are group based, but those are animals that are meant to travel in groups. Cera gets its body buff because it’s scrappy scavenger. Troo and Dilo venom have players counting hits and listening to sound cues to tell when their effects are applied, which has always reminded me of counting ticks in RuneScape, humorously. And Cera’s noxiousness having an actual meter on screen? Dryo’s hops? Trike and Dibble sparring pips?

Plenty of animals have gamey mechanics like that that affect movement or combat. The trouble with Ptera and Thermals is that the only realistic or comprehensive way to make that mechanic actually useful is if every square inch of the MASSIVE map had wind, like real life. But that would be a ton of extra work for the devs and a ton of extra math for the servers, all for one animal that might not be active on the server some days.
It’d be much simpler (just my dent of how big the map is) to tie it to the playable itself as it flies around, and make it feel like the player is just happening upon small updrafts and gust of wind,which would be invisible anyhow.

[timber tusk]

Really? The more you know 🤷‍♀️

[viscid mica]

Makes sense didn’t think about that I would say venom isn’t fair as it’s literally that or just bonus DOT which is just legacy bleed

[timber tusk]

Word up. I think The Isle does a fantastic job of disguising its more gamey mechanics organically, just by mixing most of the indicators into the regular UI or even the actual animal’s behavior, rather than having separate ability cooldown thingies like PoT do. Cera bellowing to indicate when it’s buff is up and Troodon’s little “venom applied” chirp are my favorites simply because you can’t get more organic than the animal making a sound.

That’s why I think an audio cue would be great for this mechanic in Pteranodon. Just a little “that’s easier” chirp to tell you when you’re allowed to activate it. If the trigger time is spaced out enough, I bet it would trick some players into thinking it was a map thing, just invisible and mobile.

[viscid mica]

Agreed

I dunno I guess the video is what had me going eeeee

[timber tusk]

Fair 🙂‍↕️

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message Maybe not the wind 'lines' but using the wings flapping to indicate which direction the wind is coming from, could be used for storms and stuff later if we ever have weather messing with flight mechanics

Didn't mean to make it a reply, sorry for the ping

#balance-feedback message The less apexes we see, the more natural the ecosystem feels

It should be hard work and not for everyone

to succeed growing I mean

[timber tusk]

I realized later that an audio cue would be better. A little “smooth sailing” chirp to let the player know when they can activate a boost up or forward.

[maiden temple]

Yeah that's also fun

[golden coral]

@grizzled stag Fracture doesn't operate on chance, so don't think that'd work out. Nor do I think we should account for obvious megapacking of allos or ceratos, any more than we should account for getting jumped by 5+ rexes, it's not how it's meant to work. And isn't maia already buffed quite a bit, at least in HT? Not sure it needs more, especially not since we're getting larger hadrosaurs as well, para and shant.

[grizzled stag]

Thats a solid point

In that case

The devs need to deal with megapacking because the amount of times I've lost fg Maia's to megapacks of ceras, carnos, omnis, dilos, and even tenos is ridiculous

The game is unplayable if the only time you encounter another player is when the other player has their entire family tree in the server and they run around sliming everyone out

[golden coral]

Agreed, I think no AI servers do help a bit with that. But then people complain about lack of food for their groups. That and cannibalism needs to not being just a free added diet, but rather a proper trade off. And there is the whole megapack/mixpack icon, if it works as it should at least, so you can avoid the troublesome groups somewhat.

[hasty coyote]

maia is faster than an omni, you know what you do when you see a pack of 10 large carnivores? you hold shift+w and just book it. You don't need to be able to 1v10, because then you would be faster than most the roster and stronger than 10 dinos of comparable size. If your issue is with them being able to track, then I would probably want to work on that rather than making maia more of a god in combat than it currently is. Like make large groups lose tracks much faster "because they're so stinky they can't smell anything else" or something.

[grizzled stag]

Omni runs 41 km/h which is legit 5 km/h slower than Maia, and Omni has much better movement and is almost always a megapack. This makes you basically unable to escape considering Maia has way less stamina. And despite Maia being one of the fastest dinos in the isle, that only ever kicks in at fg. When you're young, you're fast, there's no doubt about it. But until you reach 80% growth, you're getting outrun by ceratos, dilos, omnis, carnos, and all of those demonic tenos that are always out for blood for literally no reason whatsoever.

[maiden temple]

Raptors can jump, so that point is not valid anymore. It can get away

[grizzled stag]

They CAN jump, but why would they be jumping if they're running you down through a field or jungle?

Their stamina is superior even if they do have to jump once or twice

[maiden temple]

Because they don't want to be run down in this scenario

Jump on a log/rock/up a hill that has this 'movement block' on it and you're free

[grizzled stag]

In this scenario, im talking about Maia escaping

Not omnis

Maia can't do anything about being chased down by a megapack of raptors

Same goes for other megapacking carnivores if your Maia isnt fg

[maiden temple]

Need to run to a body of water, you can pick them off 1by1 this way, even if there's tons of them

[grizzled stag]

I did that yesterday when a group of 7 omniraptors jumped me

And I bled out even with epidermal fibrosis

I had good stamina and was hitting them a lot

They wouldn't die

Only a singular one died throughout the 20 minutes that fight went on

[golden coral]

That seems more like it might be you lacking, or them being a proper pack and knowing what they were doing. To be fair, that's almost a full pack, they should be rather scary for a solo maia to run into

[maiden temple]

Good raptors or you're really struggling on maia. It takes a while to bleed a maia down from my experience

[grizzled stag]

Oh I definitely wasnt lacking. I kicked and slammed down almost every single one of them and then followed up each time with 2 hits

Somehow they just kept getting up

[maiden temple]

On HT?

[grizzled stag]

Nope

Evrima

[maiden temple]

Ok a bit less damage then, but this still doesn't really add up

[grizzled stag]

Yeah I been watching tons of Maia videos lately and it looks OP as crap

I was roughly 80% grown in the fight though

Maybe that weighed in at little bit

[golden coral]

Yeah, HT maia is a bit improved

Yeah, depending on damage scaling, that probably did make your hits much less dangerous

[grizzled stag]

Yeah

[golden coral]

I'd say that probably went as it should, and it would have been more odd if you had somehow killed them all at that point

[grizzled stag]

Sounds right

[maiden temple]

It doesn't sound unreasonable, especially when not fg

[golden coral]

And if you were skilled enough to reliably hit them over and over, then if you were grown, and especially with HT maia, you'd have come out of that the winner, or at least having made them pay with most of their pack for the kill

[grizzled stag]

Just hit 90% like 3 minutes ago, so in a little bit when I'm 100% it'll go more like what you said lala?

Then again though the raptors that jumped me didnt look fg, they all seemed between 40-85%

The younger ones mostly sat back tho

[maiden temple]

Yeah you'll have no issues nuking them 1 by 1 if you get a kd and a followup as a fg. You definitely want to find a way to force them to fight you in a way you can defend (same goes for teno v raptors, although teno attacks much faster so it's a bit easier, at least for me). Using terrain is how you survive outnumbered, unless the hunters are silly

[grizzled stag]

Sick

Thanks for the feedback

[maiden temple]

more herbis, more fun! No gatekeeping here

[grizzled stag]

Awesome

[hasty coyote]

1: unless Omnis got nerfed, they should be 46.8, it’s 0.1 kph slower than Maia. Though their agility is better and they will out stam you, you can just punt them with the alts. Especially on the ht since Maia’s damage was practically doubled on all attacks. And if there’s like 7, then that’s point 2
2: you can’t balance dinos around 1v10s, for a large number of reasons. But notably the fact that it then makes that Dino stronger than any others solo, which then makes it the go to pick for the 10 man groups.
3: yeah Maia’s juvie is terrible, but that doesn’t mean the adult should become a god. Just buff the juvie speed so it isn’t pain and suffering.

[haughty grotto]

I'm surprised that you think an encounter of a solo Maia against 7 raptors is one that you think you should be surviving.
First of all that isn't even a megapack. 7 omnis is within the allowed group limit.
Secondly, there is no freaking way they outstam you. If they use all their stamina in a sprint, they don't have much left to pounce or bleed you out.

I'm shocked, truly, that you would rather have a group of 7 hard working carnivores starve and not be rewarded, and instead want to fracture and hurt them even more.

It is SEVERELY UNBALANCED if a solo maia was equal or the winner in an encounter with 7 raptors

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, Omnis have nearly 2x the stam, so they would have a solid amount, especially if they coordinated with others to regen stam.

Iirc is 2:15 vs 3:40

[haughty grotto]

No, Omni is like 2 40something
And I thought Maia was slightly more than 2:15

Add to the fact that Maia can 2 shot an Omni..

Yeah, no. Omni is severely underpowered anyway

[hasty coyote]

Wait no you’re right, I’m thinking of pachy run time

[haughty grotto]

13 sec difference

[hasty coyote]

yeah they have practically the same run time

so yeah maia is probably already the best thing in the game at dealing with mixpacks and megapacks. Almost the same distance as an omni with a stam bar, faster than most the roster, tanky enough to survive most ambushes. and still strong enough to fight most things.

[slim narwhal]

so ur saying that u want to nerf a dino because he is playing as intended

allo needs the speed he cant face tank

bleed it's hes weapon ofc he is gonna hit u and run

[steep gazelle]

He already can do this with 35km...

40km is too much

37 is a good speed

[slim narwhal]

that is dibble speed almost he needs the speed

[dusky surge]

what are you talking about right now lmao

dibble isn't even CLOSE to that

dibble is actually even slower on this branch than it was on EVRIMA, at a shockingly slow 34.2km/hr as adult

nowhere close to 40km/hr

[steep gazelle]

Dibble speed is 34km, 37 is fine for Allo

[viscid mica]

Prime currently keeping up with FG teno and cera

[faint robin]

Allo can indeed facetank spamming bites

[slim narwhal]

go ahead and play allo and face tank a dibble

i want to see the video after lol

[slim dragon]

Basing match-ups based off facetanking is so weird in evrima

Like stego cannot facetank a cera
But I don't think that means it needs a buff

[twilit seal]

@feral hazel allo trot speed is buffed, along with sprint speed. Trot is slightly faster than cera rn, its very good

[feral hazel]

Oh it got buffed finally?

[steep otter]

Yeah its not slow mo walking anymore

[grizzled stag]

It literally is a winner against 7 raptors 💀. We talked about it yesterday, i wasn't full grown. I was 80%. Someone who was discussing it with me says that if I were full grown I could punt them all with alt attack and sit in a body of water and i'd nuke them. And they're not wrong either, I've seen it in countless videos on dinosaurs that are big packs of omnis and dinosaurs that aren't.

[steep gazelle]

Allo can win. Allo can use 1 more bite while the Dibble is still on cooldown

[twilit seal]

dibble flip attack stuns allo, and is fairly fast, and does more damage than regular attack, if dibble spams that and allo hits the face of the dibble, it wont even be close

[steep gazelle]

In a facetank, what I said is what would happen. But it's obvious that a dibble won't only use the normal attack against allo

[twilit seal]

i am talking about a facetank, facetanking by spamming the flip, the most spammable and damaging attack

[steep gazelle]

Flip, as far as I remember, only deals 160 dmg

[twilit seal]

does 350, does less damage if the target is on the ground

[steep gazelle]

350? Something's wrong. Whenever I've used dibble, it hasn't caused this much damage

[twilit seal]

its the most recent stats on ht, you sure you used the right attack?

[steep gazelle]

Yes, but that was before. They must have buffed the damage in the latest updates

[twilit seal]

i doubt it, with the right combo you could one shot ceras

[steep gazelle]

Yes. Before it was 2 stationary flips and 1 thrash to kill a cera

[twilit seal]

and ceras all have congenital so

[steep gazelle]

Thrash does 975dmg

[twilit seal]

no it does 600

300 each tick, does 2 ticks

[steep gazelle]

Knocked target and headhit

[twilit seal]

yeah then it does 900, 1.5x multiplier

[maiden temple]

Do you know if any teno changes are out yet? I'm waiting for the shrinkage

I assume it will be small changes stretched out by weeks

[twilit seal]

No idea, I didnt play teno at all on hordetest and unless it was changed this week, it was still the same stats like the last weeks

[maiden temple]

Okays, thanks

[haughty grotto]

@grizzled stag no my guy, looks like you just want the illusion of horror.
True horror is when a deino actually catches while you're tensely drinking and you watch yourself get dragged into the depths.

[wise obsidian]

@grizzled stag Map knowledge allows you to avoid deinos entirely

[grizzled stag]

Im aware, but there's countless scenarios that delay you from running there

[wise obsidian]

You don't have to run very far

[grizzled stag]

If you get stuck in a fight while trying to go get water, or are about to go get water, you spend time fighting and losing more water

[wise obsidian]

Most animals have pretty good water timers and there is nothing stopping you from fighting back while on the move

Hell, delta has a little pond on the west side where you can grab water

As well as right above dibble spawn spot

Absolutely zero risk of deinos

[elfin night]

Problem with deino is that it needs a rework

I don’t think that alone will do

[tight cove]

@grizzled stag #1 your idea would make deino unplayable straight up so screw deino players I guess #2 there’s so many safe spots to drink + water mutations you can have so you can just completely avoid deino #3 there isn’t a deino at every spot on the map so as long as your not drinking at a hot spot the chances of you getting grabbed is low.

I can honestly say that with the way the game is at this current point if you get grabbed by a deino you either got very unlucky or that’s a skill issue for drinking in the middle of deino infested waters.

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
It shouldn't be detectable, that's the only way it can reliably hunt and most playables don't need to drink very often so it has to be very patient to get a meal at all. You can avoid them very easily by learning where to drink. You can either learn by trial and error - that's the most fun way, by playing ptera (you can see shallow spots in water from above), beep or deino to learn where you become visible, or watching videos.

Imagine you're a fg Teno, and are just casually drinking, and see a trail of cloudiness in the water coming right at you super fast
If I can spot a deino I will not die, even if I see it last second due to their eyes shining through water when I have night vision on, especially in spots I choose to drink at.
Having the game snitch on them would feel very unfair

Also talking about horror game, the lack of a warning IS what makes it scary! It's always a jumpscare

[golden coral]

It isn't, you know there can be a deino, so it's just rng, nothing to be afraid of. Either deino is there and you die, or not and you live. What's scary about not caring because there's no counter play anyway?

[golden coral]

Why be afraid when there's no reason to be tense anyway? There's no counter play, so no reason to worry. Just gamble on it, and that does not inspire fear, only boredom.

[tight cove]

i think most ppl are anxious when drinking at an unsafe spot or crossing a river becuase there could be a deino

and deino being a jump scare is cool too so having the game be a snitch is a bad idea

[haughty grotto]

I don't understand this at all

The thought of dying instantly does not strike fear or worry?

How can you call it RNG?
It is the exact polar opposite of RNG. There's absolutely no randomization. There's high risk deino areas and low risk deino areas and you know exactly whether you're grabbable or not.

[tight cove]

i think i understand his mindset but i believe he's in the minority of that

[tight cove]

I agree but unless your in a completly safe spot there's always a small chance

[golden coral]

It is RNG or at least somewhat similar, cause there's no telling if there's a deino there or not. That's kind of the thing, and also why there's no fear. There's no fear, because there's nothing I can do to counter it. Aside from drinking at safe spot which just means no deino at all, thus no interaction in the first place. Any risk is the same, because again, there's no telling, there's nothing to look for (unless you want to wait 5 min or whatever for oxygen and see if something pops up). And if I'm in a position where I can't be grabbed, then there's no risk at all.

[golden coral]

It's like how it's not scary to see nothing at night. If there's little to nothing I can do, why worry. What's there to fear, when there's nothing on my side I can do about the worry.

There is little to no tells if there's a deino, or even if you're about to get jumped until you are already being jumped. So what am I suppose to be tense or worried about, it makes no difference, or little, if I actively look around or not, there's no warning and reaction time involved.

[golden coral]

It does, if there's some way for me to act to avoid it. But then there has to be that, reasonable and reliable way, to avoid it, that I know I can do and use, and thus the fear comes from "If I mess up, I die", rather than "I can die in one shot", the fear and tension comes from if I will play it right or not, not so much if it's one hit or not. It's one mistake or not, but I see little to no "mistake" in deino interaction, aside from just not drinking anywhere a deino can be, which removes the entire interaction.

[tight cove]

I understand what your saying bro but i think most ppl don't think like that, most ppl i think are afraid of the unknown so if their outside and they cant see a thing they might get nervous 😭

[golden coral]

Oh yes, you can be afraid of the unknown. The darkness itself can be scary.

But being jumped at night, while I can't even see my own playable, is not scary, cause I can't defend myself anyway

I can barely see if I'm walking down a road or not, so getting attacked at that point is just "okay, sit down and give up" or "randomly swing and hope for the best", cause that's about as good as it gets when I can't reasonably fight back

[tight cove]

I get it, the devs also really do gotta fix the horrible NV this game has, having your gamma turned on is basically mandatory

[golden coral]

And that takes out the tension and fear, because there's not a sufficient belief that "I can survive this" to counter the situation

And I think that applies to both NV when it's too dark, and deino, unless there are more tricks to deino survival than "drink in safe spot"

[golden coral]

Might very well be in the minority in this, you're probably right there, but I honestly can't really say it's scary unless there's the "counter" of sufficient possibility to act and react to the scary thing

[tight cove]

drinking sideways but that only works when your drinking at a shallow spot lmao 😂

[tight cove]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-gif-13575853101874488635

[golden coral]

Yeah, fair, at least there's something. And I'm glad you understand how I see it, even if it doesn't neccesarily make sense to you

[tight cove]

yup

[haughty grotto]

I'm sorry but I still don't get it.
Knowing that you can't act or counter and that your death is definitive if you're caught is the reason there is fear, but you feel the opposite

[golden coral]

Eh, I tried to explain it, not much more I can do. But the "caught" part is maybe the key here. If I can avoid being caught, then there could be fear. But that still then requires sufficient ability to not be caught, so that I can worry that "this could happen", rather than "this will happen"

[haughty grotto]

Knowing that I can counter something eliminates the fear entirely and instead makes me hopeful and confident
You're speaking a paradox

[golden coral]

Well, if you don't have hope, you can't really have fear either, you need the "contrast"

[haughty grotto]

Fear is felt during hopelessness not hopefulness

[golden coral]

Otherwise the fear goes away, because there is no hope, so no point in it

[golden coral]

So then you'd never worry about any matchup where you can plausibly go "I can survive this"?

[golden coral]

Not really, hopelessness just means there is no point. If you have hopefulness, then there is a point in trying, and thus, the risk of failing

If you know something is going to happen, and you know there's nothing you can do about it, then there's no point in worrying

[slim dragon]

Then why do horror games give you a way to survive ?
Wouldn't it be much more scary to have a monster run at you as soon as you boot the game and have no way to escape it ?

[twilit seal]

@bold vessel #balance-feedback message before the speed buffs I would disagree with the bite nerf, because it was kinda the only deterrent to stop allo being free food to teno and cera groups imo because it was slower, but if the speed is going to stay the same, I think its fine to slow it down. And about the dash, I love using it to dodge and side step, but the problematic side is that you can use it to catch up to stuff that youre already the same speed as now, a short stagger like pachy miss would be the best

[maiden temple]

It's scary because you can't know if it's there, I always get jumpscared and will even with 5k hours lol

Probably even with 100k, I'm skittish!

Your way of seeing it is a lot like learned helplessness

I've gotten away from deinos in silliest of ways so I guess these experiences are deeply engraved in me xD

[golden coral]

What? That makes no sense. Is it somehow strange to you that there's no point in feeling fear when you have no recourse anyway? Do you go around and worry about things you know will happen one day, no matter what, because you're still afraid of them?

[slim dragon]

Dying of old age isn't scary because it will happen to everyone
Getting eaten by sharks is scary because it may not happen

[golden coral]

I'd rather say it is scary, but it's also pointless to go around and be afraid, because it will happen (or well, other worse options might), and so, it's just how it goes. Thus, while you can still fear it, you also know it won't matter, it won't help, and that I guess is what takes precedence for me.

And in the case of deino, when you decide to drink where a deino can be, you know you can be gotten by one, you know there's little (though apparently some) you can do about it, so why worry. Can you still be afraid, sure, but it won't do you any good. Drinking at a safe spot does, but that also does remove the entire interaction, so no worries then.

[golden coral]

But if I play a game, that tells me, "You will be jumpscared alot, its what this game does", then it removes a lot of the fear factor, because now I know it will happen (though not when), and that there's no way to avoid it. I expect it, and while something jumping out at me is going to get a reflex out of me, I also know it's going to happen, might as well take it into account. Not being able to know if something is there might be scary, but if I can't react if the "unknown" is good or bad, then it doesn't matter if I can find out or not, if it's safe or dangerous won't change what happens when I interact with it if there is no interaction to be had.

[neon willow]

For a lot of people, yes, it is strange. People worry about plane crashes or whatever else all the time, even though they have absolutely zero control and the odds are incredibly low

[golden coral]

I guess, though it seems very odd to me. I don't really sit an entire trip in fear of something that if it happens, that's it. Or I don't go on trips if I do have that much fear. Same as not drinking outside of safe spots for deino. But if I do choose to drink outside of them, then I take the risk, and since there's no mitigating it, more or less, then there's no point in worrying.

[maiden temple]

It really doesn't remove the fear factor, I know it can and probably will happen. That deson't make it any less scary imo
You can react and if you react early enough you can get away, it's surprising that you just sit there and accept your fate to me lol

[maiden temple]

I do not, no

[golden coral]

Except far as I have seen and know, you can't actually react in time, or with sufficient time, to make enough of a difference to care about. Hence the "coming to terms" and "accepting" the fate. I do not see enough of a reliable course of action to take in the case of deino.

[golden coral]

Then apply the same to deino, you might see enough of a possibility to react, I do not. So to me, deino is close enough to "nothing I can do about it", and so far, I've yet to see much ingame to prove me wrong.

[maiden temple]

Why would I? I still get away from deinos.
If they were perfect AIs I'd probably feel the same way you do, but they're not.

[golden coral]

Most cases of surviving deino is cause the deino messes up, or cause of bugs or other funny shenanigans, not because the target did see the deino and jumped away in time, like you sometimes see in animal docs

[golden coral]

So it's basically down to us seeing the situation differently, rather than a disagreement on how fear works

[maiden temple]

Exactly, players make mistakes and that's how I live another day

[slim dragon]

Deino lunge is instant, and the animation to stop drinking takes several seconds
There is no such thing as reacting to a deino lunging you

[golden coral]

But that's on them, not you

I am talking about my own ability to act and react, not the deino getting me, then dropping me cause of funny rock in the way, or deino accidentally surfacing cause the player pressed the wrong button

But rather, that I, if I pay enough attention to the waters, can see and react to the deino

[maiden temple]

There are many ways to see them approach, my drinking animation doesn't take serveral seconds to end huh D:

[golden coral]

And if there were more tells, or concerns for the deino to pull off the lunge, then you could also remove the safe spots, because you wouldn't need them

[golden coral]

Some anims might take longer, though normally thats eating anims that take long. But what/how do you see then? Cause if there are sufficent tells and all, then there would be proper tension and fear when I go drink. But so far, I've yet to notice any of that, so it remains too much of a "fate" thing as it stands

[maiden temple]

You can see shiny eyes with NV, especially with shallow (but not shallow enough for them to surface) spots - the bigger the head the easier to see them. It's much harder to spot smaller crocs. This is usually enough time for me to turn and run on agile playables. Heavy dinos can only make a little bit of distance and hope it burns enough stam carrying you as it's going back to water to have to release you where you play a swim to the shore game while getting bit or body blocked

Finding good spots is still the top priority ofc

[golden coral]

Does that work at daytime somehow? I could see it work at night, but well, I play stego so NV isn't really all that (I can't even see my own playable most of the time, but my screen might just be too dark). And the latter seems, so so I'd say, I wish there was something better there. I guess it's not entirely pointless, and if seeing their eyes works reliably at any time, at least there is that. But that still requires more or less "safe spots", rather than the interaction with the deino itself. And I'd rather have the latter, and remove safe spots, so that any spot can have a deino, but some are more difficult for the deino to attack from than others/easier to notice the deino in than others.

But as long as the main method is "go to safe spot", over "pay attention and you're good", it leans on the "fate" aspect a bit too much for my taste. Same with terrain vs pouncers really.

I do not care much for the solution being "do not interact" rather than "interact well".

[maiden temple]

When the screen is pitch black I would not go to drink at all tbh

[golden coral]

But at least shiny eyes is something, so I'll keep that in mind. Does it work well daytime too?

[golden coral]

I don't go anywhere at night most of the time, can't even see my own nose, so what am I even out for xD

[twilit seal]

Having NV on just makes all eyes shine regardless of time of day

[golden coral]

Alright, good to know. A bit strange I'd say, but if it works it works I guess

[twilit seal]

I mean, honestly the game is so dark even during the day I always keep NV on basically

[maiden temple]

Sameee, I secure my spot and camp for the night, hoping a bunch of raptors doesn't want my rock

[twilit seal]

Unless im like out on the beach or plains when the sun is up high

[maiden temple]

It's much too dark, especially for herbis

[golden coral]

Daytime I think it's normally okay, but I also avoid deep forests mostly, since stego do not like those (too many things to accidentally hit), but at night I mostly just find some corner to wedge myself in, and go read discord while I wait to be able to see something again.

Not a fan of NV being so dark that it feels more meaningful to not play the game than to play it, but maybe it'll get better again

[golden coral]

But you're supposed to be vunerable at night! xD

[maiden temple]

I miss the nights pre-NV the most but I think I rather the black and white NV over what we have rn in general

[golden coral]

Which yes, fair, but I'd like to be able to play the game and do something, even if it's just preparing a nest or some such

[maiden temple]

Reducing the vision a bit is fine, but we're staring at a pitch black screen, and the night lasts a while

It doesn't help carnis either because I'm hidden and won't make noise until I can see again

I got stuck in a forest on galli at night, tripped on some rock and broke my leg. Had to sit there with galli paranoia in the background scaring me all night

Got my teno to fall off some random spots a few times too, I always seem to end up really high up lol

Not as funny as falling into the ravine on spiro though

I do wonder what you can really do on stego especially if the deino is big enough to grab you from shore. Prime deino has so much damage even without a perfect grab scenario. You might have to rely on shallow/narrow spots entirely but then again the chance of a prime deino being everywhere is so low uhhhh

[twilit seal]

Honestly, I have utmost respect players that dont use any filters or monitor settings, but thats so miserable lmao

I personally use monitor settings so Im not crazy blind during the darkest hours

[tight cove]

gamma be mandatory when the game decides to be pitch black 😭

[maiden temple]

I tried, still blind, just the 'black' on my screen is brighter

I had to try it on beep, since underwater was just a black screen but it really didn't help at all

I think DLSS makes it worse for me

But I can't give up the extra frames

[twilit seal]

Do you use lumen on? Ive heard it affects it, I have the “black” thing in monitor settings turned on all the way when I play the isle, kinda takes saturation and vibrance away since everything is brighter but its worth it

[twilit seal]

Gamma kinds makes it a bit weird for me visually, I prefer the thing i mentioned above more

[maiden temple]

Nope, no fancy settings

[tight cove]

dang

[maiden temple]

What's the black thing? I'm willing to try anything tbh

[twilit seal]

Its what you said i think

[maiden temple]

Aw, I guess my monitor just can't handle it then. It works very well in other games but it really struggles here

[twilit seal]

I dont think its some advanced stuff, maybe its called “black dot” i forgot, I was just able to do custom profiles on my monitor for different settings and it gave me the brightest result when maxed so thats what Ive been using

The nvidia filters are really good too, and easy to use

[maiden temple]

I forgot about this tbh

I'll mess around with this

[crystal stream]

Instead of just buffing Mia’s damage I wish they gave it a actual reliable way of doing damage to animals like cera I know it has its shuv combo but against things like cera it can very difficult to defend its self because by the time it recovers from the shuv the cera has already moved out of the way animals like carno don’t have this problem though so maybe it’s just cera lmk about your opinion tho

[tight cove]

maia v.s cera was fine and if you didnt wanna fight you could easily run away, the new maia buff makes maia borderline op now 💀

[crystal stream]

There way of fixing it was to just buff its dmg that’s why I stated very clearly that they should try something else

[tight cove]

the thing is the stun combo against cera is most of the time consistent so idk

[crystal stream]

Unless your going against cera who just picked up the game sure otherwise properly landing it is very difficult

Only time it works is if the cera is facing and inside you otherwise at most a tail hit

I think you brainwashed by the fact they buffed the damage into thinking it’s op

[tight cove]

I agree with this but even despite this maia could still handle cera

[tight cove]

the maia dmg buff did make the thing op 💀

this is why im glad for most of its life its slow because once your an adult your damn near immortal now

[crystal stream]

Tbh I’ve seen Mia’s get folded by ceras but they where probably bad as for my experience yes but again not only is it just super tedious and hard to land just for you to barely hit the tail and get bit three times

[crystal stream]

Agian buffing its dmg wasn’t the right play

Wish they gave it a better attack instead or maybe reworked it attacked a lil

[tight cove]

yeah

but wait hold on i just remembered something

[crystal stream]

Hell maybe even buff the amount of time cera gets stunned for by a very lil bit just enough where the moa can capitalize on a misplay

Like Carno

[tight cove]

they buffed maia's cc recently i think so maia actually knocks down cera more but im not 100% on it though

[crystal stream]

If they did that’s op

Ik more talking abt envrima Mia

I don’t like ht

[tight cove]

ik

[steep otter]

Maia can knock cerato to the ground

[tight cove]

can maia do that with its shove too?

[steep otter]

Yes

[tight cove]

wow maia is more op that i thought 😭

without a doubt maia is broken op now 💀

also i know if you run long enough it does knockdown cera

im talking about like standing shove @steep otter

or like slow running side shove

[steep otter]

Nah that still only stuns

Unless you are a prime maia

[tight cove]

alright

so i think maia only does knockdown with kicks now

[thorn mountain]

@inner surge every animal has the same food drain % at every growthstage no matter if you are an adult or juvie, the difference is as an adult you no longer gain weight meaning your stomach doesnt increase, as a juvie you grow meaning your stomach increases, so if you were a juvie and were just not growing you would have the same amount of hunger time as an adult raptor

so changing it so juvies have more hunger than adults doesnt really work

because no matter how much food you give juvie raptor, it still grows its stomach still increases meaning less food

[inner surge]

I see, thanks for the explanation

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

rabbit. elephant. lmao

[vagrant plover]

Troodon juvi literally has the same speed as a mouse now

[haughty grotto]

@grizzled stag the smaller the slower?
Ok, increase rex and trike speeds to 60, I support you brotha

[grizzled stag]

Thats not accurate but sure

[haughty grotto]

Exactly, thanks for proving it, now go delete that post of yours

[grizzled stag]

Nah because im right

[haughty grotto]

You are only one thing
Foolish

[grizzled stag]

Its something known as evolution

Bigger things ARE often faster than smaller things because they take larger strides

[slim dragon]

Nah
There is a sweet spot for maximum speed, after which point being bigger means being slower

Because square cube law is a thing

[haughty grotto]

This is false.

Larger strides is not equal to speed.

Larger strides with an optimum body weight allowing for MORE strides per second is what actually determines speed.

[golden coral]

In any case, game, not real life. So speeds should be decided upon for what works out for the game and is preferably fun to play with as well.

[tight cove]

I agree, this game isn’t meant to be hyper realistic in the first place, you gotta pick and choose the best ways to add realistic believable stuff that can benefit gameplay and chose when not too if it could hurt the gameplay too much.

[vagrant plover]

And that's exactly what it doesn't do.

Troodon juvi doesn't work at that speed and isn't fun.

[steep otter]

Prime elder deino is already insane hard to get and people want to nerf it @_@

[tawdry leaf]

Because if you get to prime deino, there is nothing that can threaten you both on land and on water...Well if its smart deino player

[eager saddle]

Biggest threat to deino is starvation because you don’t come across anything. Your size does not matter in that regard

[tawdry leaf]

Yeah, most old alligators/crocodiles die to same thing tho

Kinda "realistic"

[steep otter]

Ever since deino was added that has being a thing the only animal that adult deinos feared was other deinos

It will be like this for a long time until something like spino arrives

[pulsar dune]

If allos faster, tankier, and bites faster than cera, with more bleed, cera is just a rotten corpse/bone vacuum waiting to be a corpse himself

[eager saddle]

No no stego’s in spiro. But that was when they fought it

[steep otter]

Tbh deinos on spiro only fought stego if they wanted

[crystal stream]

Rip allo thing is abt to be nerfed into the ground

[steep gazelle]

I don't think so. But a speed nerf should definitely happen

[eager saddle]

That is true

[viscid mica]

@restive token soooo

Clones work BUT they can straight up miss rn

And are unironically dodgeable rn they basically run in a straight line and bite

[restive token]

we where like 15 dilos and no clone hit?

[viscid mica]

Clones where probably hitting just not many

And like if he litterally walks foward some will miss rn

The clones are there just a lot stupider

[restive token]

the rex stand stil in a bush never did anthink and we pressed clones. no hit sound nothing so idk

[viscid mica]

Rex’s won’t always make hit noise to things that do less than 250 per hit

Dilos Max at just under 100 for prime

And clones do base damage so it has a high chance of not triggering if they do hit

Sub note clones could get stuck on small rocks really easily

They effectively just Nerfed the clone AI to be really stupid

[restive token]

would be cool if dilos could see there clones. right know are clones work or not gamble ( for me)
sucks

[viscid mica]

Maybe if they could see like a shadow or a ghostly figure but not like a full on clone cause that could get really really confusing

Also 15 dilos!?

Yall wrong for that 😭

[restive token]

he was mixpacking with 2 dibbs so it was fair XD ( we killed his dibble friends hehe)

[viscid mica]

Wild

I’ve been there do the dilo swarm is fun

Plus, I don’t really judge people for over packing/mix packing during this horde test with how bad the hacking problem has been I get it

[restive token]

was just for fun on sunday because all have time. in the week we play normal

[viscid mica]

Fun fun

[viscid mica]

@spiral ledge tbf if you fight ontop of a body against ceras you are your own worst enemy

Also prime allo bleed is insane not even cera is taking that as a prime

[finite shadow]

genuinely what is the difference between its pounce to deal bleed and a grab and rip lmao?

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message @grizzled stag just cope with it

Pin is literally the same as with all other playables

Don’t ask for it being removed now that it is your problem

Just like people were told to simply avoid Omnis with smaller playables, what is stopping you from doing the same?

[elfin night]

It’s either kept for everyone or removed for everyone

But those exemptions are ridiculous

#balance-feedback message man I love my daily dose of clueless carni players deciding to screw over herbivores and omnivores in new ways for wanting to exist

[grizzled stag]

Did you or read what I said? I explained that it is entirely unrealistic and goofy looking that an Allo can jump off of the ground and hang off of the side of a larger or evenly sized dinosaur. I don't even play hordetest, man, but I've seen enough videos to know. And along with that, I've seen countless complaints on the discord server about Allo's grapple. I legit have zero problem with Allo as of today because I have never encountered them, and for your information, I'm a Maia main, so you'd best stop jumping to conclusions because you seem pretty bad at it.

I'm simply seeking a more realistic and reasonable solution to the stupid ability in place.

[elfin night]

You were talking about pin though

People understand pin as solo killing, just catching something smaller than you and helplessly killing it with one button. And that is what I was criticizing, since Omni does the exact same thing really.

Grappling could do with some changes. 2-3 allos pinning an elder maia or a tired trike or rex isn’t really that bad and only looks bad because of the animation. And besides, something looking unrealistic isn’t really a concern for the game: design and balancing matters more

The jump on someone’s back is getting changed iirc

[quick socket]

Omni is 450kg, and allo is upper mid tier that can take on playables bigger than itself. Not to mention there are a few smaller playables like cera or teno who are just simply slower than allo. Not to mention the message you replied to said nothing about PIN.

[elfin night]

So the only things missing are different grappling math for larger creatures and then maybe more commitment to the pounce rather than leaving it as being untargetable on someone’s back while stacking bleed

[elfin night]

Cera and teno aren’t slower than allo under the same conditions though

Plus they have the water

And even then you could just buff those two. Problem solved

[elfin night]

It literally talked about pin

And even if it talked about grapple only, that’s still a “rules for thee but not for me” moment

And well, Omni too can take on playables larger than itself

[dusky surge]

teno is faster than allo

[elfin night]

Land, water and can also jump

Dunno why would they say teno out of all playables

[dusky surge]

its also faster in trot

[grizzled stag]

Dawg grapple needs to be outright removed

[twilit seal]

Allo pounce is still stuck in peoples mind as OP I feel like, it really doesnt do nearly enough damage or bleed, its kinds only useful for its dash and grapple/pin. if you want to bleed out a target pounce is not what you want to use

Its free damage and bleed only cuz terrain dont knock you off, but its never enough to kill anything substantial in size

[twilit seal]

Omni pin is arguably even more OP cuz it can do it on same size targets, but rex and allo cant. 300 kg omni can pin a 300 kg allo, but 300 kg allo cant pin it

[grizzled stag]

I could care less about the animations, I just care about the game being balanced and the devs not adding a pointless and unrealistic ability to the game.

Like, seriously, who was the smarty who thought Allo could jump and hang off of the side of a dinosaur while weighing multiple tons and having feet that look like this:

[twilit seal]

The animation is a place holder, have you seen the concept art?

[elfin night]

True. Thanks for the help there

[elfin night]

Or maybe just reworked to be balanced. Why would you propose a removal for the one thing that needs some effort to be done and can be avoided after the first pounce but not the other one that makes it so that things smaller than allo cannot exist near allos

[twilit seal]

I still think allo pounce should be a troodon like pounce that can turn into a grapple if another allo pounces, like it latches on, does bleed/damage then stops doing any damage or bleed

[elfin night]

We have a creature in this game with reinforced hollow tungsten bones. No one in the dev team cares about realism (and that’s okay).

But even then they are changing the animation. If your complaint is the animation, it is getting changed and we all knew it. If your complaint is balanced, why grapple and not solo pin when it is literally the same but without second chance to prevent it?

Also there’s a creature with telepathy

[grizzled stag]

What is shown in the concept art?

[elfin night]

Quite literally

[elfin night]

Allo pouncing at things but keeping at least one foot on the ground

[dusky surge]

not anymore tbh, they kinda scaled everything to its accurate weight for size

[dusky surge]

it was why omni got weighted down and pachy got a weight buff

[grizzled stag]

...

[elfin night]

And also all the superpower strains

[grizzled stag]

That is NOT a pounce

[twilit seal]

its never meant to be a pounce anyway, its a grapple

the pounce is just a placeholder

until devs figure out how to do the animation and make it be consistent

[grizzled stag]

Thats basically what I said in feedback. Allow could grab onto something and rip off a chunk and cause massive bleeding like it did in real life

[elfin night]

Well that’s the outlier I suppose, but even then we have so many creatures that have superpowers or are not faithful at all to their irl counterparts. Something shouldn’t be removed due to it being unrealistic

[grizzled stag]

True

[elfin night]

It didn’t do that irl

And I don’t get what’s the difference with allo holding there and biting/clawing as opposed to just doing what you say

[twilit seal]

which isnt an easy task cuz theres questions like: what happens when a juvie allo pounces a very large target, how would its leg be on the ground
or how would the legs behave, would they just skate and drag on the ground kicking up dust? or how would it work with latching on from behind

[grizzled stag]

But if they are trying to implement that concept art, im happy, because that's not an allo tightroping on a dinosaur's back

[elfin night]

Unless you propose allo attacks once after your idea of a grapple

Which by then…why?

[grizzled stag]

What i mean by grab, isnt hold on and ski behind them. I mean grab on take off a chunk and back away

[elfin night]

Feels like a hit and run crutch

[grizzled stag]

Exactly

[twilit seal]

yeah how would that work with a moving target? then if its an automatic dismount, theres the risk of getting hit

[grizzled stag]

Stegosaurus and Allosaurus were rivals in real life. You would NEVER see a stegosaurus in a Facetank-style fight with an allosaurus

A moving target could get slowed down and a counterable animation could start playing

Or something along those lines

[twilit seal]

then comes the question of small allos pouncing a much larger target still

does the big target get slowed down by a juvie allo the same way?

how would the feet be on the ground with a baby allo

[grizzled stag]

Yes, but the attacks would be counterable

A baby allo shouldn't be able to grab and rip as it is young and allosaurus already has relatively weak biteforce

Here's the different though

[twilit seal]

i think the best bet personally is just making allo only able to pounce when theres a close enough size difference, if you pounce a very large target as juvie, you just get stunned. and with small enough targets, you just pin them.

[grizzled stag]

With allo's current jump and hold on, you cant really counter it before it happens. They enter the animation, get darted towards you, and then climb on.

With my idea, sure it's a speedy move, but at least you get a chance to hit them before they grab on

[grizzled stag]

Agreed

[twilit seal]

I mean, in general, I dont get all the btching about pins

[elfin night]

I mean YOUR idea

[twilit seal]

pins are completely fine to me, ever since they made the threshhold 50%

[elfin night]

If it only grabs one chunk

But if it stays there, then it functionally is a pounce

[grizzled stag]

Yeah, that's why my idea ISNT staying there.

[elfin night]

And I don’t see how it would be dumb to have 5-6 tons worth of carnivorous dinosaurs pinning something down that is tired, about to bleed out or smaller than that weight combined

[grizzled stag]

Its running up, briefly grabbing on, ripping off a chunk, backing away.

Just like how large carcharodontosaurids did to sauropods

[twilit seal]

I mean i love the spot allo pounce is in rn other than the animation, its actually very weak with damage and bleed, its only use has been reduced to pinning or grappling

[grizzled stag]

Idk man, maybe the animation is deceiving me because it looks so stupid and just like a steroid omniraptor

Wait so explain exactly what it is SUPPOSED to do as of right now

Like if the animation wasnt screwed

[twilit seal]

its just an omni neutral pounce rn, difference being you cant switch slots or choose to do damage or bleed

[grizzled stag]

Well what is the omni pounce changing into?

[twilit seal]

nothing, its the same

[grizzled stag]

So when Allo is done, the animation will continue to just be an allo holding onto a dinosaur like a dromaeosaur?

[twilit seal]

no, the effects will be the same, just a different animation

like the one in the concept

[grizzled stag]

So will allo be dragging his one foot along the floor or???

[twilit seal]

yeah

[grizzled stag]

Um

Thats really weird but okay-

[elfin night]

So a crutch for hit and run?

That doesn’t sound very interesting does it

And we don’t know if any dinosaur did that. Not like it matters though

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message least obvious rage post in a challenge intended for thoughtful balance feedback

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
That sounds.. weird? You want everyone to give a warning before they attack? When ambush/landing the first hit is what gets you kills?

Also I'm sorry but no grown maia is getting pummelled by a teno

Unless you're new, no shade. We've all been there

#balance-feedback message
It's 500 at adult, and that's only the base - not counting the 3 damage muts you can get and stack. It never felt weak to me idk

[grizzled stag]

Its not a crutch when you can be countered

[elfin night]

Crutch ≠ uncounterable

[grizzled stag]

And who cares if its hit and run, its not like you can't run to a cliff or river

Multiple dinos have hit and run mechanics

With your so called "crutches"

[elfin night]

But it would be lame to make Allo’s ability just the same as hit and run but a little easier

Dryo dodge levels of lame as a main ability

[grizzled stag]

Hit and run is perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with it

[elfin night]

Nope they don’t use a hit and run crutch. They run up to something, bit it and then disengage

[grizzled stag]

Just like Omni?

[elfin night]

I never said there was anything wrong with it

[grizzled stag]

And Herrera?

And Dilo?

Yeah that's what I thought.

[elfin night]

I am saying that making Allo’s do that as their main ability when they can do the same with marginally more risk isn’t really a very cool or interesting thing

[grizzled stag]

I disagree

Allo doesnt HAVE to use it as a main ability. If it is balanced right, people will use it just like every other dino. Other dinos do use their abilities very often, but its not like they don't use other attacks as well. Allo already has a claw and bite attack which can already hold their own against some dinos.

If they balance things right, it WONT be a hit and run simulator

[elfin night]

Then what’s the point of making a main ability which is essentially “approach and hit dino safely, then get away safer than doing so normally with your movement”

[vale brook]

allo is going to keep the "grab onto you and rip you apart" personality, dondi confirmed this last night on stream

the animations may be altered/changed but the essence of the animal will be the same

[finite shadow]

^ also have to consider that things like shant and cama will be added in the future that the devs want allo to be pouncing onto to deal bleed

also also your idea for it to only touch the animal once and deal huge bleed sounds like a balance nightmare, instead of allo having to land a decently long pounce to deal bleed it now does a huge chunk of bleed immediately, so something like 4 grab and rips onto a dibble bleeds it out lol

[digital vine]

I only wish rocks and trees hitboxes would work properly. Its so stupid to see an allo phase into a big ass wall and you cant knock it off. I really hope devs plans to change that soon. 🙁 Like its the only effective way to take a 4 ton dinossaur from you

[vale brook]

^ this is a big issue for me as well. i assume its unintentional and just a side effect of the new in-house foliage replacing most store asset foliage

[digital vine]

I think you are right, what makes me sad, its not a new problem. Ominis also can't be knocked off in some certain trees in Envrima for quite a long time now. I think they probably dont know how to solve it yet or just dont care much about it

[finite shadow]

@tidal monolith what size were the stegos?

[tidal monolith]

3ish tons? im not entirely certain i was across the map, but watching their stream

[finite shadow]

Were you talking about it’s claw attack when you say bleed attack?

[tidal monolith]

yes

like they werent fg but still they weigh more than the allo, and there were 3 of them. they shouldn't die to 2 quick attacks

[finite shadow]

It’s still a sub adult animal v an adult animal, honestly the claw attack is pretty hard to land safely with allo and 3 stegos failing to kill 1 allo sounds like a pretty large skill gap imo

[tidal monolith]

2 tapping a dino larger than them seems like bad game design, not a skill gap.

[golden coral]

Were the claw attacks headshots?

[finite shadow]

Once again an adult animal vs a sub adult, there’s also the chance it was a prime allo who wasn’t fully prime

[golden coral]

And for that matter, what was the stegos stam, food and water at?

[finite shadow]

There’s also other matchups to take into consideration, a sub trike at the same time wouldn’t have died to 2 claw attacks worth of bleed

[tidal monolith]

just died to another allo, I was 3 tons. 2 body shots and I bled out in less than a minute. I shouldn't be losing hours of growth if I am that size to 2 attacks

[dusky surge]

@remote charm #balance-feedback message

hit the nail on the head, its people who play the rex as a "facetank win because biggest bite" playable and refuse to engage with both its expansive kit and great movement stats

its honestly really disappointing how rexes just want the stego to conform to their simplistic playstyle, as opposed to adapting to these things

[golden coral]

With full stam/food/water when those two hit?

[tidal monolith]

i was completely full on stam. perfect diet. i couldn't outrun the allo. i weighed more than the allo. but still dead in 2 quick shots

[golden coral]

Hm, sounds a bit rough, was the other allo the same size as yours?

[tidal monolith]

like i can understand a 2 shot from a rex, but to bleed out after 2 attacks that probably didnt even get me to yellow is upsetting. i went epi specifically for this

[remote charm]

thank you

[steep otter]

i think people forgot them can still just ambushe the stego, deal 6000 fracture damage in a combo them be patient and pretty much win the fight

[dusky surge]

yup

ambush animal does good when ambush

[spiral bane]

Adult vs non adult is irrelevant

Size is the the only factor that matters

A sub adult elephant doesn’t fall to its knees from a adult lion

[spiral bane]

Water doesn’t always exist, cliffs aren’t always nearby.

You shouldn’t instantly die if an allo is close by.

[spiral bane]

But it is. Animals don’t just flop over and die.

Even when pinned animals can muscle their way back up, that is why pin should have a bucking feature depending on weight

[valid robin]

@spiral bane I think you underestimate how difficult allo claw attack is to use

While it could probably use a slight nerf, a lot of Dinos naturally have bleed resistance, and on top of that bleed resistance mut is kinda overtuned

Ngl most dinos in this game are basically balanced that they beat everything smaller and win vs everything bigger it’s better to have more dinos that buck the trend

[steep gazelle]

I remember seeing a video of an Allo Bleedout a stego with only 3 claw attacks, so...

[valid robin]

Considering it's a really clunky attack and stego can potentially oneshot allo on any of those attack runs, IDK if this is that crazy

plus those may have been headshots

[steep gazelle]

It doesn't matter if Stego can oneshot Allo or not, that's practically 2000 bleed damage per attack

In a 2.6t creature

[valid robin]

doesn't trike do 6000 flat damage as a 9000kg creature

allo is a lot smaller than trike too so it makes sense that the ratio is higher, omni can do double it's weight in damage off a pounce

plus bleed is the most reduceable damage type in the game

[keen plover]

Where’d you get that value

[valid robin]

people have been throwing around the idea that allo claw swipe does 2000 kg of bleed damage

i do actually think allo needs some nerfs, but in other areas

[keen plover]

They’ve been saying it for ages, but we’ve also had many, many builds that idk if that’s the case or not

[keen plover]

Grapple?

[valid robin]

grapple, also rn it is the same speed as fg teno

no idea why it is the same speed as cerato and teno, realistically same skill level it absolutely puts them into the dirt rn

[keen plover]

I agree with grapple needing changes, but I think the speed is fine. I don’t think the lunge boost is fair though

[valid robin]

bro as someone who is basically maining the dino rn, I genuinely think it is completely broken

like at most it should be 38 kmh

[vale brook]

bird

[spiral bane]

Trike has massive horns it is shoving into you, The allo is swiping its claw into you.

[keen plover]

Teno is faster, has more stamina, trots quicker, doesn’t get pinned and swims faster. Cerato is effectively similar, minus sprint and trot

[spiral bane]

The allos attack does too much bleed for the level of commitment it has

[valid robin]

40.2 kmh on an allo when it declines in speed while growing means that it's faster and bigger than a teno or cerato for most of it's growth

[keen plover]

That can be adjusted

But if it’s in tenos cc range, it gets mauled

[spiral bane]

I just don't see how a 3 ton any animal is meant to survive an allo attack if the allo bleeds it in 3 hits.

[valid robin]

im telling you, if you havent tried using these abilities in an actual combat situation, try again, it's a super punishable move, it hard animation locks you and is really hard to properly trigger in a scrappy fight

[keen plover]

Hi

[spiral bane]

If the allo gets hit by the stego it does NOT get one shot

[spiral bane]

I will admit, I don't have much ground to stand on here. I haven't played allo much.

I will have to test it and see if it is truly as overpowered as I have seen myself. But as of right now, it is too much.

[valid robin]

maybe if it gets hit in the tail, sure, but head or body should force it to back off

[spiral bane]

It is not engaging to hit something 3 times and win.

[valid robin]

bro i was literally playing prime allo last night and did exactly this and lost the fight

[spiral bane]

What were you fighting and what growth/weight of it?

[valid robin]

bleed resistance mutation is insanely strong, and if a dino has innate bleed res it basically bounces off it

[steep gazelle]

Stego has no resistance to bleeding, so his bleeding pool is the Kg, só 6000:3=2000

[valid robin]

i was fighting a huge juvie or small sub trike, I swiped him 3 times, pounced him, and bit him 4-5 times

[spiral bane]

You shouldn't have to pick a mut to not die by a single playable

Do you think every creature should take a bleed mut because of allo?

[valid robin]

imo part of the problem here is the mut is overtuned

nerf the mut and im actually all about reducing the bleed value

[spiral bane]

Woudl you say its about 4 tons then?

[valid robin]

3-4, yeah based on my eyeball

[steep gazelle]

Trike needs a nerf too, to be honest. Trike can deal 9000 damage if it hits the head of a knocked target

[spiral bane]

I can agree with that somewhat, currently I always pick bleed mut because allos bleed is way too much.

[keen plover]

That doesn’t tell me much, since idk what his stats were like initially and were they moving or not. Also what build

[spiral bane]

Trike needs a slight rework, I would be all for nerfing trikes damage if it had a unique ability to rely on.

Damage is all trike has

[valid robin]

honestly the only reason ill hard defend bleed values and argue a lot of them should be buffed is because of how strong the bleed mut is and how many players take it

[spiral bane]

I think trike should have a charge ability. A short increase in speed like rex ambush with one final attack at the end of the charge that deals heavy knockdown and damage.

Good turn while charging and makes it so trike can punish players who don't respect its space

[steep gazelle]

Well, I gave you the explanation of where the assumption that Allo deals 2000 damage per claw attack came from. whether you want to accept it or not, there's nothing I can do about it

[spiral bane]

Then the solution is to nerf the bleed values. You don't blame the mut when the root cause of the problem are the bleed values.

[valid robin]

bleed is weird, because it has a stacking compounding effect

[valid robin]

it kind of runs the other way

[spiral bane]

People wouldn't take the mut if the bleed wasn't overtuned

[valid robin]

this is like saying people wouldn't take congenital if damage values weren't high

[spiral bane]

I mean yeah

[valid robin]

if you're playing a small pred you take congenital every single time

[spiral bane]

not really

If you don't plan on taking on big game that life then you don't take it

[valid robin]

that's fair, we are two different players i guess

imo tho bleed is really wack, either it's ridiculously effective or it bounces off the target like you didn't even do anything

[spiral bane]

Agreed I suppose, what do you think of my allo pin suggestion in general feedback?

[valid robin]

honestly i just think it needs a rework

[spiral bane]

I feel like bleed functions too much like a 2nd health bar

[valid robin]

yeah, don mentioned something about a bleed revamp, I am really hoping he goes through with it

[spiral bane]

Off the top of my head I think bleed should mainly be about making the victim worse at fighting and very weak. With the last 30% of bleed lasting a very long time.

[dusky surge]

people are only taking the mutation because it's the new combat meta tbh

i dont actually believe it's because bleed is overtuned, because bleed was effectively a non-factor before this update with allo and new stego

herrera SOMETIMES caused some major bleed, but otherwise it was EXTREMELY rare to ever die of bleed

[valid robin]

yeah, honestly I would literally take it because it would make me basically immune to bleeders, IMO anti-bleed has been insanely overtuned for a long time

used to play omni with a decent pack, over time swapped to damage pounce for basically all applications

[dusky surge]

agreed, it's really only not been picked because bleeders themselves were rare

raptors always damage pounced, and beipi/herrera were too small/circumstantial to legitimately fear as a consistent bleeder

like, the difference is not bleed is overpowered, the difference is that bleed is now LETHAL, when before, it legit wasn't

[kindred barn]

its a really good piece of feedback which isn't talk upon. its really sad to see that players are saying that the claw swipe is fine becuease it isn't fine. its really broken that a maia dies to about 3 claw swipes.

[finite shadow]

Maia has no natural bleed resistance and its main gimmick is running which also increases the rate at which it bleed out. It’s just a bad matchup mate

[kindred barn]

Don't think it is mate 3 claw swipes is outrages and the speed it like 1 min and you are dead. It's not that maia has no bleed res it's just allos claw swipes is to strong atm

[finite shadow]

Maia legit has no bleed resistance, using the claw swipe against something like trike or cera it does a lot less.

Maia can also just leave if it sees the allo coming lol, like use the speed and gtfo bc it’s not a fight it wants to take. Same thing as carno v 2 PE raptors, you do not want them to get any sort of bleed pounce off as it will melt you.

Time to learn you can’t try and brawl the punch up bleeder

[kindred barn]

get that but 3! claw swipes is beyond broken tbh

[kindred barn]

ik that you dont need to brawl but a dino that is 1,2 tones bigger then a allo dies to 3 swipes

[finite shadow]

It really isn’t, allo has to be moving at full speed, gets input locked into the direction it’s trying to use the claw swipe in

[kindred barn]

3! claw swipes where maia has to do like 7,5 stomps to kill it

[finite shadow]

Allo is the punch up bleeder, that’s the whole point of its design and attacks, it doesn’t matter that your bigger then it bc it is designed to take you down

[finite shadow]

Takes 5 stomps

[kindred barn]

350 times 2,6

[finite shadow]

The stomp does 500, 300 on the first tick and 200 on the second

[kindred barn]

its 350 for full stomp not 500