balance-feedback-discussion

[valid robin]

Wait I’m tripping

Nvm

[hasty coyote]

lol

[keen plover]

50% Diablo is 36km/h. 75% is 34.2

[hasty coyote]

oh interesting, I didnt realize they changed its growth. Thats a pretty good change imo (now if only they can continue that for troodon and maia))

[dusky surge]

genuinely im shocked you dont know just how bad dibble is

it is, without a doubt, the worst animal in the HT

[crystal stream]

Without drift sure

[dusky surge]

play maia if you want a strong midtier herbi

play trike if you want a decent ceratopsian

[hasty coyote]

oh yeah, forgot the maia buffs allow them to actually fight diablos now lmao

not nearly as bad as release maia

[dusky surge]

low damage, poor speed, low agility, mediocre trot, worse running stamina efficiency than stego, low bleed, awful alt-attacks

[crystal stream]

Are we fr 😭😭🥀🥀

[dusky surge]

yes lol

[crystal stream]

Awful alts 🥀🥀

[dusky surge]

yes lol

[crystal stream]

Low dmg 😭

[dusky surge]

very much so

[hasty coyote]

the end lag is horrendous, genuinely can't use em

[hasty coyote]

less damage than maia now lmao

[crystal stream]

Yall can’t be real

[dusky surge]

tell me you haven't played diablo without telling me you haven't played diablo

[hasty coyote]

maia's shove+stomp combo deals as much as diablo's flip into gore

[crystal stream]

Ht nah but before they took drift I genuinely don’t know how you can think it needs a buff

[dusky surge]

you wanna know what's 3 tons and has far, far better damage and stam?

juvi trike

diablo's damage was good when it was 1.5 tons

it is now 3 tons, with less damage somehow

[crystal stream]

The things damage is fine 😭😭😭

[dusky surge]

it is not

[crystal stream]

I genuinely can’t

[dusky surge]

genuinely awful for a midtier

its thrash is a genuine joke when against something like trike

[crystal stream]

CC into a trash

[dusky surge]

trike can do that to, except it actually kill confirms

[crystal stream]

Apex to a mid teir btw 🪫

[valid robin]

Nah trike just overtuned while growing

[dusky surge]

a juvi trike of the same weight does more damage

[valid robin]

Same with Rex tbh

[crystal stream]

Apex to a mid tier btw 😭😭

Ofc there going to overtune tf outa the apexes it’s the isle you can’t compare a balanced animal to something like Rex and trike

[hasty coyote]

yeah, 150+450, 600 damage. so about 1/5th of its hp. Also the exact same damage as maia's shove into stomp now (100+500)
meanwhile trike deals 900+6000, 6900, which is over 70% of its hp

[crystal stream]

Apex btw

[hasty coyote]

and?

[dusky surge]

so make midtiers trash so that you're reminded there's better options out there?

literally, the joys of playing as a worse juvi trike lmao

why is this even a playable if its only purpose is to be a worse juvi trike

[hasty coyote]

I refered to the damage scaled proportional to weight

[crystal stream]

I think your missing the point apexes and power scaling in this game is cheeks

So you can’t compare them like that

[hasty coyote]

while trike's is def insane, that still doesnt change the fact that diablo's is still incredibly low. Even if we were to gut trike's thrash by HALF, it still would be dealing 2x the damage proportional to weight

[dusky surge]

yes i can because it pretty accurately shows just how bad dibble is?

idk man im shocked people are STILL on the "dibble OP" thing after all this time

[dusky surge]

dibble's thrash on a non-knocked down target is actually so pathetic it's insulting

[valid robin]

So what’s dibbles max speed?

[crystal stream]

Also juvi trike is fat and miserable to maneuver while as with dibble at least before the changed its drift could actually move I don’t see a problem jst a skill issue

[hasty coyote]

as said by bird above 34.2

[dusky surge]

34.2, got nerfed this HT

[crystal stream]

Omni btw😭😭

[dusky surge]

omni is genuinely better imho

it's fast, it's agile, it got a good stam buff, it can do... so much damage in a single pounce

[crystal stream]

No way your real

[dusky surge]

i am

[valid robin]

AINT NO REXES CATCHING ME TODAY

[hasty coyote]

tbh the pounce stam buffs are insane, genuinely costs 0 stam. Main issue is just primes being primes and bugs being bugs.

[crystal stream]

If you honestly think a dibble cannot defend itself with the current tool set it has in main branch your just bad at the game

[valid robin]

holy moly 35.3 kmh

[dusky surge]

"main branch"?

[hasty coyote]

we aren't talking about the main branch now are we?

[dusky surge]

no brother this ain't about that

this is about the branch where dibble is consistently and repeatedly outclassed

so much so they made the thing fodder AI food

[crystal stream]

So we just ignoring the fact I mentioned how I think in ht it’s weaker but main branch it’s balanced

Cool

[dusky surge]

i dont think it's good in main branch either

just uncontested

which very much came to bite it in the ass once the contest rocked up

i thought dibble was bad before HT, I knew it would get dogwalked by allos and rexes with the current statbuild

[crystal stream]

I want you to tell me how would buff dibble in ht

Typa guy to jst spam alts on dibble and wonder why it died to a solo Omni

I can’t

[valid robin]

guys my dibble is 36 kmh

[hasty coyote]

you're the one who argued the alts werent bad lol

[dusky surge]

i dont alt on dibble because im not trying to throw

also yea, you argued the alts were strong LMAO

[crystal stream]

Alts on dibble oats good wdym spamming them and being predictable is when you suck

[hasty coyote]

@valid robin bird did come and clarify it does reach higher speed while growing now, which is nice.

[dusky surge]

(it reaches its old speed LMAO)

[hasty coyote]

yeah but at least it isnt in the same bracket of growing as maia and troo

[dusky surge]

trueee

[hasty coyote]

Its almost like the absolutely insane end lag make them borderline unusable except to finish off some small target.

[dusky surge]

you should never be throwing out an alt in a midtier fight

genuinely asking to lose your animal

in general though, dibble's damage is pretty awful for dispatching of ANY midtier

[crystal stream]

In a 1v1 what percentage do you think a allo should have of winning

[dusky surge]

against a dibble? 30% probably lol (if it's staying 3 tons, which it likely is not)

ceratopsians in general are meant to be 1v1 champions, weak to packs

[crystal stream]

Now what abt if the allo is really good

[dusky surge]

then uhhh idk good for it

congrats on ur skill

[crystal stream]

wtf you yapping abt jst answer the question

[hasty coyote]

should depend on a lot. But assuming equal skill, with fair terrain, and equal growth, and the diablo and allo both see each other, prob 40-60 to 30-70. Though the allo can put the fight in its favor by ambushing the diablo in terrain that favors itself.

[crystal stream]

Like see thank you

[hasty coyote]

allo dictates whether the fight even happens, so it should be at a disadvantage on average

[dusky surge]

i dont like hypotheticals that change the basis of the conversation based on arbitrary values of skill

when i say 30-70, it is under the assumption that both are skilled

i cant calculate exactly how people play, i'm not a psychic

[crystal stream]

So you think this game shouldn’t take any skill when fighting

[dusky surge]

yes that is EXACTLY what I said

[crystal stream]

It should all just be I stronger I win

[dusky surge]

yup, 100% what I said

[crystal stream]

Gotchu

[dusky surge]

glad you picked up on that from all my words that said something completely different

[crystal stream]

Point is skill shouldn’t matter in a fight with a dibble the allo should always lose

Unless in a park like in lagacy

[dusky surge]

what are you talking about

[crystal stream]

I’m asking a question do you think skill should matter in a fight between a dibble and a allo

Or should it just be if allo in pack it win

[valid robin]

imo they should balance it so that at lower levels of skill its like 80-20 for dibble but at higher levels of skill it should be like 50/50

[dusky surge]

ehhhhh 50/50 sounds pretty awful

like if it's a 1v1 where dibble is an animal supposed to specialise specifically in 1v1s

[valid robin]

maybe 1/6 to 1/8 players is actually good

[dusky surge]

like that's dibble's whole shtick

[crystal stream]

Ofc it would give the dibble a apex while you at it

[dusky surge]

same with most ceratopsians

[valid robin]

give allo a ton of mobility tools and then allow only people who can really master their use to actually stand a chance vs a dibble

[dusky surge]

allo is a pack animal, the opposite of dibble

[crystal stream]

It’s not a Pokémon

[golden coral]

What?

[crystal stream]

You can’t slap titles on dinosaurs and expect them to behave exactly as told esp multiplayer game

[dusky surge]

correct! very astute observation

i too noticed that

[dusky surge]

im not slapping titles, i'm saying what its kit is specialised in doing

[valid robin]

ngl i gotta say this prime system is bad for herbis

[dusky surge]

yea prime system not super great imho

[valid robin]

mz hasnt moved yet i gotta roam to reach prime that's an L

[dusky surge]

yea i hate how MZ is handled atm

def needs a rework to make elders engaging imho

[crystal stream]

So buff dibble because allo to strong

[dusky surge]

same with PZs, growth just isn't that great atm imho

[dusky surge]

no? buff dibble because it too weak

allo is honestly kinda fine as is imho, if not a little obnoxious with its killing power in a grapple

[valid robin]

tbh i think its more just that apexes are overtuned and so is allo

[crystal stream]

Buff dibble because I can’t survive 2 fg ceras chasing me

[hasty coyote]

just add back drift, make bucking actually a useful mechanic, then prob go from there imo

[dusky surge]

idk i dont think allo is that overtuned i guess

[crystal stream]

I agree

[dusky surge]

it should def be able to survive two fg ceras lol

[valid robin]

compared to apexes its like B tier compared to everything else its like S++++++

[crystal stream]

😭 your wroung

[dusky surge]

two scavengers that dont even make up the dibble's total weight lmao

[crystal stream]

See putting labels again

[dusky surge]

the labels the DEVS GAVE THEM

BROTHER LMAO

[slim dragon]

Animals in this game have niches

[valid robin]

dibble was balanced for the existing roster apexes entered and blew everything up

[crystal stream]

Idgaf they obviously don’t want to follow it

[dusky surge]

really? IDK man

[hasty coyote]

if bucking was consistent I'd agree, but getting my stam nuked because its my only counterplay while praying to RNGesus that it actually throws them off in a reasonable time is painful. especially when they just immediately latch back on because pouncing costs 0 stam atm

[dusky surge]

TRUE, bucking is a problem, but that's not allo's fault imho

[valid robin]

name me anything that came before allo that can even hold a candle to it

[dusky surge]

Teno can surprisingly do very well against allo if played well

[valid robin]

bro fg allo just pins you

[dusky surge]

I've seen it happen with my own eyes

[dusky surge]

not atm, no

elder yes tho

[hasty coyote]

stego, though not as well after its damage got reduced

[golden coral]

Teno remains the best critter around! xD

[valid robin]

okay ur right, but that's an apex

literally the whole pred roster looks like a bunch of chickens compared to allo

[crystal stream]

I fr hope dondi doesn’t look at any chats in here ts is so braindead

[golden coral]

Then where should they look to find the braincells? xD

[crystal stream]

Not the discord

[dusky surge]

im sorry people dont agree with you

[valid robin]

i mean ngl i feel like allo just pounces teno and its over

[hasty coyote]

my messages specifically, I'm hoarding them all

[golden coral]

Well, certainly not reddit, I can say that much xD

[dusky surge]

i know that must be hard for you

[crystal stream]

God no

[crystal stream]

lol someone’s angry

They jst need to play there game more

[golden coral]

Not many other places to look then, so not sure where the good feedback is

[dusky surge]

who?

[golden coral]

They do play the game, as a matter of fact, Dondi playing the game has on occassion been less than ideal xD

Btw, whats with the Sorcerer Niche thing? xD

[crystal stream]

Cool but do you think he has fun while being killed by one full dmg pounce by a Omni as a pachy

[crystal stream]

You bucko

[dusky surge]

ohhhh

i thought it was Erik my bad

[golden coral]

I think he plays in a way where he does not end up getting into that situation to be honest, but if that did happen to him, he'd probably either think it was deserved, or change it at some point

[golden coral]

So, since I'm going to assume we're not getting actual magic (neuros aside maybe), does that mean para "noise marine" is the reasonable interpretation?

[dusky surge]

yah, i just made a funny nickname based on that comment lol

[crystal stream]

Getting in that situation unreal

[dusky surge]

it likely will be "loud sound" = "magic attack"

[valid robin]

ngl pachy cooks omni in a 1 v 1

[crystal stream]

Yeah

[golden coral]

Would be more funny if you had gone with the noise marine, or maybe that's just cause I like 40K and I can totally see sound attacks/CC or such have a very discordant sound

[crystal stream]

Jst crazy how one full dmg pounce full kills a pachy imo

[dusky surge]

it should tho tbh lol

[valid robin]

yeah

[golden coral]

Probably mostly a bucking issue again

[crystal stream]

Yeah

[hasty coyote]

after the weight changes and ram not being a complete buggy mess, its actually in a solid spot.

[dusky surge]

bucking is just awful atm

[slim dragon]

So they decided to go with sonic attacks in the end ? Nice

[crystal stream]

Real quick what do yall expect a pack of Omni to be able to reasonably hunt

[valid robin]

nothing if it has a tree

omni is thoroughly countered with a tree

[crystal stream]

I mean if you can decide

[hasty coyote]

depends on the size and skill of the pack. Though prob up to maia consistently if your pack is at least decent and has like 3-5. Though that isnt often the case atm

[valid robin]

oh right it can catch like dryos, herras, troos, and gallis

[crystal stream]

Ok I respect it

[valid robin]

i cant lie in my experience omni is useless against maia

[crystal stream]

Less say a pack of 3 Omni

[crystal stream]

It’s not

[dusky surge]

a 3 pack of omni should be going after stuff like tenonto

[crystal stream]

And nothing higher no matter the skill?

[hasty coyote]

its really based on if the omnis know its attack ranges. If they can bait the maia they can shred them

[golden coral]

With equal skill and smarts, probably not, no. If the rex ix absolute garbage, then I guess 3 omnis could eventually kill it

[dusky surge]

dude

im going to be real, kinda bored of you jumping to conclusions to everything i say

[golden coral]

But if we're going to look at matchups, we should probably look at them with equal skill accounted for

[crystal stream]

Oh now hes angry im just asking

[crystal stream]

Ok respect it

What about a pack of 2 ceras i

[golden coral]

No, but because you were being a bit dumb about it before

[dusky surge]

im not angry, just tired

[golden coral]

He answered the question, 30/70 for allo/dibble, and you simply assumed he didn't take skill into account, but he did

[golden coral]

Depends on what cera is supposed to be and do, not sure there so can't really answer that one

[crystal stream]

I’m just asking questions because I genuinely could not wrap my head about how you think dibble needs a full buff to make it already stronger I swear the day I get one tapped by a dibble as a dilo is the day I quit the game

[crystal stream]

Ok

[slim dragon]

Can't wait

[crystal stream]

Tn jst syghaun

[hasty coyote]

you already can... (with headshots) but thats not really an issue because you can just not go near the diablo. Not to mention allo does the exact same thing but is faster and can spam the 1-shot move much easier.

[golden coral]

I don't know how good or bad dibble is, so can't say much there

[valid robin]

ngl i think after maia buffs everyone just wants some crazy buffs to their dino too

[crystal stream]

So as a dilo even in a pack should just never go near a dibble you can’t be serious

[crystal stream]

Ok

[valid robin]

I mean didn't maia get +50%-+300% damage on most of its attacks

[dusky surge]

allo onetaps dilo but dibble shouldn't??

[golden coral]

That's not what was said, though? Just pointing out that you can apparently oneshot a dilo already, and that its fine because you can avoid the dibble

[crystal stream]

It only one taps because of stupid ahh pin

[golden coral]

And yeah, allo would probably be far scarier

[hasty coyote]

not that you should never go near them, just that you never have to. And if you do decide to, you knew the risks.

[valid robin]

allo shouldnt onetap dilo

[hasty coyote]

like with omnis

[crystal stream]

Plus dibble has cc fr so it is pretty much one tapping anyway

[hasty coyote]

or literally any other small dino fighting something bigger

[slim dragon]

Doesn't dibble have basically no NV ? Just wait for the night and kill them while their screen is turned off

[hasty coyote]

yeah its basically pitch black

[crystal stream]

The risk shouldnt be losing a hour worth of progress because the dibble clicked a button on you is the same reason why everyone hates pin

[valid robin]

man i just got killed by an esping maia on dibble XD

that's so funny

that's so the isle

[crystal stream]

Sorry to hear that

[crystal stream]

Only attack the player if there taking a snack break ahh answer

[valid robin]

imagine that, you play a herbi so that you can feed the ecosystem and then a herbivore hunts you down XD

what can i say I should've expected it from superpredator maia

[golden coral]

It's pretty reasonable to utilize the abilities and all that your playable have, dilo is kind of meant to hunt at night, as is troodon. Where the others are vunerable, and less capable of fighting back. Granted, NV is a bit too rough at times, it shouldn't be as bad as it is for some playables.

[slim dragon]

You know night falls every evening right ?

[crystal stream]

But that takes time I don’t have I’m a busy guy you know

[valid robin]

guys ngl i really dont think dibble is undertuned i just think a lot of the roster rn is overtuned

[slim dragon]

Don't play a nocturnal hunter if you can't wait for it to night then ?

[valid robin]

like stego, rex, trike, and allo all way too strong for what they are, growth is also way too easy

[slim dragon]

Or at least don't attack things over 3x your size alone

[hasty coyote]

the main issue with pin is that its being used against similarly sized dinos who should reasonably fight back. Dilo is nowhere near similar size (being literally less than 1/4th the size of a diablo) and is much faster, so its perfectly acceptable due to dilo not needing to fight diablos and having the tools to easily escape. Not to mention you would need to be in front of the diablo to get knocked down and then headshot thrashed to get 1-comboed. In which case you made multiple mistakes to be in that position so thats all on you.

[crystal stream]

Don’t play a survival game if you don’t want to survive ahh answer

[golden coral]

Then take the risk, or play another kind of dino that isn't as dedicated to a certain time of the day (or can handle it better at least)

[valid robin]

sure the growth is long, but like stego and trike are immediately competitive in the ecosystem

[slim dragon]

Well yeah
Is something wrong with that ?

[hasty coyote]

tragic

[valid robin]

and rex sub is kinda insane

[crystal stream]

There are literally animals today who hunt things way larger then themselves

It’s not like its unheard of

[hasty coyote]

yes, and they will get 1-shot if they mess up.

its not unheard of dilos mauling a diablo

just that if you mess up, you mess up

and if you mess up big, you get punished hard

you knew the risks running into that fight

[crystal stream]

Herbi bias is so real

Never thaght I’d say it

[hasty coyote]

I can literally say the same thing about pachies getting 1-tapped by allos, or diablos trying to fight a rex.

i can't say the same thing for pachy v diablo tho because pachy has headshot resistance, so it technically can't get 1-comboed. Though if it died that would still be fine.

[crystal stream]

And then they make the most outlandish version of a pretty reasonable argument I can’t 😭😭🥀

Why would a pachy need to fight a dibble

[slim dragon]

Since you use irl as a comparison, please use it correctly

The punch-up potential of animals gradually diminishes as they get bigger in weight

Something something square cube law, also organic cells being all a fixed size

There isn't a single land predator nowadays that is as large as dilo and capable of hunting things above its weight

In fact there isn't a single land predator nowadays that is as large as dilo

[hasty coyote]

why would a dilo need to fight a diablo

[crystal stream]

Holy yap I ain’t reading that

[slim dragon]

Ok I'll make it simpler for you

ugh dumb pls no dumb

Science stuff grmb

[mint star]

how big do snolar snears get

[crystal stream]

Because it’s a predator who needs to eat meat and is specifically adapted to hunt esp at night

[slim dragon]

500kg average

[slim dragon]

Did you ever consider hunting someting more within your weight class ?

[mint star]

snincredible

[hasty coyote]

its the best comparisons I can make we just simply don't have many carnivores that don't rely on pins and herbivores that would get 1-tapped by them.
I could also say a dryo fighting an omni or dilo if that makes you feel better. Or omni getting 1-tapped by cera to the head with a charged bite.

[crystal stream]

Ok bro whatever you say gng ✌️✌️

[valid robin]

ngl dibble lowkey dilos target prey item

[hasty coyote]

and you can choose to fight literally anything other than the large armored herbivore.

[golden coral]

So hunt at night, and you're probably good to go, though I'd recommend having at least a partner, if not a full pack, since dibbles can be scary

[crystal stream]

So by putting herbies in the shoes of carnis you think that makes it so herbies are not biased

[crystal stream]

Ok

[hasty coyote]

kinda, dilo does have advantages over diablo, but diablo is still over 4x its size. In a pack def a solid target, but solo prob not. Generally its preferred range is closer to stuff like pachies and tenos. Though we don't have many herbivores in that range other than those 2 lol.

[hasty coyote]

yes? what else would you want me to say?

[crystal stream]

No because why would as a dilo pack only be going after pays

Pachys

[crystal stream]

Exactly

[valid robin]

ngl imo small tiers should generally be very effective against mid and apex tiers

[hasty coyote]

I'm genuinely just confused at this point

[crystal stream]

Same but just remember you herbivore biased

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[hasty coyote]

depends on the small tier, the mid tier, and how many of the smalls there are. Generally mids are designed around fighting other mids, so they are gonna feel strong when fighting something much smaller than their main threats. Doesnt mean smalls cant be threats, just that they are gonna have a harder time

[hasty coyote]

again, how? you havent explained anything, I'm not just gonna believe you on blind faith. If you can't articulate your point, I have no reason to accept it. I treat both equally because I work off 1 simple premise for 90% of my balancing takes:
Can't run? fight. Can't fight? run. Can't do either? have a gimmick or be fodder.

diablo is slower, therefore it has the advantage in the fight. And since diablo has much larger targets to worry about, it should be balanced around those targets. Meanwhile dilo can't be as strong as diablo due to it being faster than most of the roster, but it still holds a major speed advantage, so it can just choose to not deal with the diablo and instead hunt something easier.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

this solves literally none of its issues lol

[slim dragon]

Why do people want to increase stego hp all of a sudden ?

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"Maia is able to eat grass, and unlike Rex, she is able to stay in any part of the map for a long time, waiting for the player and not suffering from hunger. If you put the mutation on long-term satiety, even more so."

No one tell them that rex has the longest hunger drain in the game at a staggering 2 hours to become hungry

[sacred moat]

try to feed an adult rex. I've already encountered Maia camping on tests many times, while Rexes are constantly forced to move and depend on bots

[dusky surge]

rexes are absolutely not constantly forced to move

they can stick in one spot with either diablos or turtles and just stay there indefinitely

[sacred moat]

In fact, unlike Maia, they are unable to escape. The older Rex is, the faster he walks, and that's terrible.

I'm already silent about what the omniraptors are experiencing now when they encounter Maia.

[dusky surge]

i mean

genuinely, as an omniraptor, maia should be absolutely no issue

[tight cove]

the new maia dmg buffs are great but ngl maia does need a slight speed nerf now, just make it slightly slower than omni

[dusky surge]

it's only ever so slightly faster, but with less stam, horrible accel and a sluggish turn

use your agility, maia will never catch you

or, just get in a jungle

[sacred moat]

Yes

[dusky surge]

i would rather they nerf the damage again than ever nerf the speed

maia's current speed is genuinely one of its most interesting and fun elements

[sacred moat]

Don't forget that it has the ability to take a mutation for bite endurance, just like all herbivores. Maia doesn't need more damage, she needs adequate stamina requirements for her attacks and speed.

[tight cove]

true, i mean tbh pre buff maia was fine its was powerful in the right hands

[sacred moat]

In its present form, Maia can tank 3t+ players endlessly with spam stomps, while the player will not hit the hitboxes of her head.

[dusky surge]

ehhh, i'd say it was rather underwhelming, same with diablo

although it is funny just how diablo is just being overshadowed by everything

[dusky surge]

remove the mutation rather than nerf the herbivore

i never understand why people see the problem the mutation causes, then blame the creature for having it, rather than the mutation itself

[tight cove]

current maia with the dmg buffs + tacticle endurance is just a monster, even if your losing a fight you can just run away heal your hp in a few mins then come back to fight again.

[tight cove]

all combat mutations gotta go or get a serious rework IMO

[dusky surge]

hard agree

speed mut removal was an excellent start

[tight cove]

indeed

also id like to point out good maia players can use stance switching to remove maia's bad accel thus making it able to keep up with smaller targets

a good maia can honestly just kos any cera it sees now with the dmg buff thats insane

[dusky surge]

cera still has agility and swim speed to escape

[tight cove]

imma be real, the only valid escape route is through swimming, besides that ceras agility isn't enough because maias agilty is comparable using stance switching

if a cera is near water it'll be fine but other than that oof

[sacred moat]

Alr

[viscid mica]

Like it should because you shouldn’t be face tanking Maia

Anything that should be able to face tank Maia can

[grim moss]

Stego cant face tank maia 😡

[viscid mica]

😭

Stego can’t face tank a omni

It do like 20 damage per lil bite

[grim moss]

Thats right buff stego bite force to 2 tons

It NEEDS it

[viscid mica]

😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

Stego needs something….

That or it’s just Rex being op

I’ll go with the later stego was fine for years

[tight cove]

the devs somehow made stego unviable 💀

[dusky surge]

i'll be real

[grim moss]

That takes true skill

[dusky surge]

im surprised people are surprised stego is unviable

it was pretty obvious it was going to be for a while now

[grim moss]

Im surprised you ar surprised that people thought that

[viscid mica]

More so that it was before

[grim moss]

I was counting my stegos days 😢

[dusky surge]

like it was struggling with diablo, had poor stam, no tools to face against larger creatures, low speed, a vulnerable head, no bleed res

it was only good in a limited, small roster

same as diablo, they had the exact same problem

[viscid mica]

Tbf it was already struggling and than they cut its damage in half and while the bleeder strat could work so long as traumatic thrombosis exists and Rex’s are faster it serves 0 purpose

[viscid mica]

Oh that’s easy Rex’s are way too fast slow them Tf down

[grim moss]

Its hard to balance a Dino that existed 80 million years before rex

[dusky surge]

ehhh

[grim moss]

Irl Stego was like 7 km/h it already has a huge buff here

[tight cove]

I always knew when the real apexs pulled up stego would struggle but i didnt expect this, i guess i was just used to stego being the strongest for years 😂

[dusky surge]

stego has always been overhyped imho

[viscid mica]

I didn’t expect Rex to crush directly through power swing and get legacy level bone break mechanics for 0 reason other than making Rex op

[tight cove]

😂

gotta have ya rex, jurassic park fantasy am i right?

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-world-dinosaur-trex-indominus-rex-blue-raptors-gif-14174221

[viscid mica]

I’d have hoped atleast things that take over 4 hours to grow to get some enjoyment :/

[elfin night]

Remember summit and hutch saying stego is overpowered?

In the end look how op stego was

That it is one of the worst herbivores currently

Even pachy feels nicer to play

[sacred moat]

It doesn't work because Maia gets in the tank's face by attacking

[viscid mica]

Pact got giga buffed it’s actually playable now

[tight cove]

pachy is actually not fodder now which is nice

[elfin night]

I know about the weight buff and I did play it

So peak now

[keen plover]

🤔

[elfin night]

Also they removed photo which makes cera not an issue

[keen plover]

Depends on how carno ends up cause rn it is carno fodder

[dusky surge]

Yea true

Although Don directly adressed carno as "making a mockery of CC" so

[tight cove]

damn i forgot 😭 😭 😭

[viscid mica]

If you don’t out weigh Maia by a solid amount you shouldn’t be face tanking it

[elfin night]

I wish it had better tools to deal with carno, but one abysmal matchup is way better than having 3 abysmal matchups

[viscid mica]

Its entire niche is throwing its weight around

[tight cove]

can diablo even face tank maia now with the new maia buffs? 😭

[elfin night]

No lol

[keen plover]

Would have to see a diablo to know

[viscid mica]

Dibble could never face tank Maia 😂

[keen plover]

I think diablo has more pressing issues than maia lmao

[viscid mica]

Fr

[tight cove]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-coffin-meme-rip-gif-16909625

[elfin night]

Diablo needs to do the stego strat to win

Of chipping away with stuns

Otherwise it dies in a straight trade

[elfin night]

Diablo isn’t really good this ht which sucks

[valid robin]

I’m ngl people saying the 50 to 300% damage buff on Maia is fun and fair is crazy to me

[viscid mica]

It’s all cc no actual dps

[tight cove]

lmao so true bro, the only dibbles you see is the AI for the rex packs to feed on

[elfin night]

It was a solid pick in the live branch despite the terrible juvenile and sub, but now it just sucks. Like stego, it isn’t built to accommodate Rex and Allo

[viscid mica]

Bro it’s not that significant yes it’s a solid number yes it made Maia a lot stronger but Maia wasn’t that strong before

[valid robin]

Everything sucks compared to apexes, apexes are way stronger when just grown a little bit

[elfin night]

Nah

[viscid mica]

Allos 1 thing Rex thought…

[elfin night]

That’s not a really accurate assessment

[valid robin]

I can say for sure with stego

Old stego used to be able to cc-> one tap fg Cerato at like 20%

[elfin night]

precisely it is stego the suckiest herbivore apex. One would have to be clueless to say it is op

But then trike is just kind of whatever, and deino has always been abysmally terrible all around

Trike just isn’t really that good now

[valid robin]

Stego is literally only bad versus apexes

[elfin night]

The only good apex now is rex

[valid robin]

Trike is literally only bad versus apexes

[elfin night]

Nope

[valid robin]

Can you name me a single dino these dinos are bad versus aside from Rex

[tight cove]

allo

[elfin night]

Sure, for stego it would be dibble

[mint star]

TROODON

[elfin night]

For trike allo or troodon

[mint star]

TROODON SWEEP HORDE RUN REAL RUN SWEEP

[viscid mica]

Uhhhh when was the last time you played ht? Trike rolls Rex 1v1 unless the Rex is god himself

[elfin night]

Buffed troodon obliterates sub trikes and stegos effortlessly

[tight cove]

current stego is bad againts a lot now

[elfin night]

Maybe adults in groups even thighs it takes a while to bring them down

[valid robin]

Okay I completely agree but this dude was saying trike is bad rn

[elfin night]

I said trike is whatever

[valid robin]

Okay like 4 Allos can pin apexes

[viscid mica]

Trike currently worst match up when solo is the big pack hunters like, dilo, omni, toodon, and allo

[elfin night]

Sure, it can kill a Rex in a 1v1, but most of its lifetime is worthless whereas others still have means to be viable

[tight cove]

i wouldnt even call stego an apex, its not big enough or strong enough

[valid robin]

And troodon is the only real exception to it

I’ve literally played Rex and ignored Omnis following me around and pouncing me

[elfin night]

And trike has actually terrible tools to handle troodon, allo and even omni or cera

[faint robin]

2 crushes and trike becomes cookie

[valid robin]

The only time I’ve ever seen any of these dinos scratch a fg trike was during trike ht on 500 ping

[viscid mica]

Force clash and you won’t even lose half your HP in the ensuing fight

[faint robin]

Crushes to the head also count

[valid robin]

The idea that apexes are bad when they are obliterating the entire is crazy to me

[tight cove]

trike is only bad against rex and troodon lol

[faint robin]

Solo trike worst matchup is rex horde

[elfin night]

Apexes just aren’t that good besides rex dude.

Deino is the worst playable, trike has a terrible early+mid on top of no real defense vs smalls, and then stego is worthless

[valid robin]

We buff Maia some damage values up to 300% and we are calling it balanced because it’s still bad compared to apexes

[elfin night]

Anecdotal evidence isn’t evidence

[valid robin]

Do you have any evidence?

[elfin night]

You not coming across them doesn’t mean the matchup is good

[tight cove]

deino wouldnt suck so bad if the map wasnt filled to the brim with safe water spots and if fish ai worked better

[valid robin]

Like if these dinos are so weak why do I see more trikes than Omnis

Why do I run into three Stegos roaming the map on dibble but see 0 Ceratos

If apexes are fair and there’s decent balance, why are they literally swarming the map

[sacred moat]

It pisses me off that herbivore players complain about weakness based on encounters with Cerato. Most of the hatred towards strong predators is just because of him. Maia has never experienced difficulties with predators other than cerato and dilo at night. Like many herbivores. Maia doesn't have to be the apex.

[faint robin]

Luck
Stegos still try to play rex ht even tho they are unviable
Tbh everything is rare compared to rex

[valid robin]

Like bro I’m playing dibble to feed the ecosystem and take a wild guess at the dino that hunts me down and kills me; yup a Maia

[faint robin]

Dibble is trash rn

[sacred moat]

Nice day 😂

[valid robin]

Most of the Cerato mains I know swapped to Maia to hunt other players

I wish I was joking

[tight cove]

the only things maia had to genuinly worry about is carno and dilo packs, but everything else you could either fight or run away from easily, maia was in a great spot, but now these new dmg and cc buffs boderline make it untouchable LOL

[sacred moat]

In a facebook tank, dible doesn't hit Maia's head's hitboxes when she easily hits his back...... Crazy game

[tight cove]

dibble is so bad the only dibbles you see now is the AI 😭

[elfin night]

Yeah totally. Trike is worthless vs troodon and sometimes dilo groups especially at night where you can’t see anything, doesn’t matter that you have 10k health and can one two then if you can’t see anything due to the night vision and venom fog as your life is being chipped away by clone bites or troodon pounces

https://youtube.com/shorts/9X5j29g2TOs?si=MlVG31ZB-DsnT2Iu

https://youtu.be/KpJZPEzlJlQ?si=SNy2UVkckBaYqoOW

[native urchin]

in a world where the rex stam gets nerfed, and the breaking bones will be nerfed as well (as already addressed in the devblog btw), i think the bleed is the way to go for stego to survive, it will allow it to run away, and if the rex keeps the fight for too long it will die to bleed, even traumatic wont save it! (since u gotta sit down, so u either end the fight quick or be gone)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Zuoto_HrL3U

this is a good example, of a rex eating too many shots, it bleeds fast

[elfin night]

No. Deino sucks still

It sucked through most of spiro too. It is a design issue rather than balancing too, as it is devoid of any agency to both hunt and deal with its own.

It’s the signature clan carnivore before rex came: the one that only works reliably if you have buddies since most of its growth and even surviving in hotspots relies on who has more deinos on their side.

[valid robin]

I already agreed with this, but you can hardly take troodon as a case that apexes are bad

Not just do you require multiple experienced players, you also need players who actually want to play troodon, on top of this troodon isn’t easy to grow

[elfin night]

People still played pachy and play deino because strength doesn’t equate to good game performance, and some may have more appeal than others

[elfin night]

I never said trike is bad, again. Only that it is kind of whatever. And that wasn’t your original request. You asked me for things that give trouble to a trike that wasn’t rex

[native urchin]

reduce bone break (buff dmg though on rex), and rex stam and stego could have a better chance to survive compared to dealing silly dmg like it used to be.

but im also a believer that a fg stego vs fg rex, or prime stego vs prime rex, a stego should find a way to not fight it, since its 3+ tons smaller

[valid robin]

I think if nobody is playing it that’s pretty damning that it’s largely not viable

[tight cove]

Deino from the jump always been canni each other but besides that, thats literally crocodilian gameplay, sit one one spot, wait for ambush opportunities rinse and repeat.

[valid robin]

So let me clarify my stance:

Do you not think the current state of apexes shuts most of the old roster out of viability?

[sacred moat]

This is a bad idea because Stegosaurus is currently running free to catch up with Rex. If he bleeds heavily, none of the apcs, not only Rex, will be able to escape from him.

[elfin night]

Not really

It may have some influence but it isn’t a 1:1 metric

[sacred moat]

Don't forget about mutating stamina from damage. God, I wish they'd take it away!

[elfin night]

No

[valid robin]

So do you generally think that in this game players should interact with each other more or less

[tight cove]

they basically made it that rex gotta face tank the stego, kill it, then sit down lol

[valid robin]

Because I can say with a lot of confidence the current balance state heavily leans towards players not interacting with each other

[faint robin]

Rex will most likely kill the strgo first even if it bleeds out after
Unless rex players will actually think about consequences

[elfin night]

I do think that there’s more interaction in the game than fighting, and therefore smaller playables can still be viable even if they cannot fight apexes

[native urchin]

i mean, rex catches up to stego because of teh stam buff, if not, it doesnt unless it gets close enough to ambush! the bleed will allow it to get away, especially if stego stuns the rex! (even though with the fracture dmg now, basically makes it hard to test, since stego will be broken too quick and cant really put this into test
if the stego doesnt stun the rex, well, its a fight u are not supposed to take (which right now is sadly impossible due to the stam)

[elfin night]

The deathmatch mentality is so harmful for this game

[native urchin]

@faint robin depends on the size of the rex though! again, if the rex is too big then yea. but if its similar size, the dmg rex has now, stego can get enough PS to put the pressure on teh rex and make it bleed out

btu with these changes, Power swing definitely needs a buff on stamina usage! and stego needs to have more stam then rex for sure

[valid robin]

It’s not about it being a death match, asymmetrical balance is a thing

If most of the roster can’t interact with most of the roster, it defeats the whole point of a multiplayer game

[elfin night]

They can totally interact. I don’t know why you think otherwise and why was fighting and hunting a discussion earlier if asymmetrical balancing is the topic

Troodon can still interact with rex

Same with Allo and deino, albeit more situational

[steep otter]

Iam the only one ho thinks rex ambush speed is a bit to high?

[grim moss]

Am i the only one who think sheep are a necessary addition to create a challenge for the apexes 🤔, sheep could balance the ecosystem so that apexes actually have something to run away from to! 🐑

[dusky surge]

(i think it's entirely unnecessary for rex's kit as a whole lol)

[steep otter]

how fast it goes? a very large rex runned down my cerato that was 40km/h

[native urchin]

i think the issue is the prime rex speed, because it reaches 34 or even 35 i think..... and from there i think ambush speed gives 8kmh? nto certain about that stat

normal adult is 29, so it kinda need an ambush speed, or u would actually need someone to run into your bush to catch it..... but peak prime rex + ambush speed is nasty fast xD

[steep otter]

a stupidly large rex was able to catch up to my cerato... makes no sense

[steep otter]

it should be slower them adult rex.

[dusky surge]

yup, elder reaches an insane 34km/hr, on top of the absolutely bull murdersprint

[native urchin]

i think peak prime rex needs a nerf, adult rex is fine.... even if its 8kmh means it goes at 37, but for a short sprint (10 seconds i think).... so allo and dibble can all run away if htey see it in time!

but peak prime rex is too fast, i agree... should not be faster than dibble at any point XD and on top of that u add murder sprint, its too much

[dusky surge]

i had the idea of every prime elder being slower in a sprint but faster in a trot

i think it works well for cerato and would probably work well for most other creatures

[native urchin]

would make sense... heavier so harder to run, but longer strides while walking

i think elder system biggest flaw is the speed

[dusky surge]

yup, effectively that

i think there might be some needed exceptions for animals like galli, dryo, hypsi, troodon, etc, but otherwise i think it'd work well as a system

[native urchin]

speed is too much game breaking, it has so much impact.... the different stages of elder, punishes u or rewards u (depending on which side of the medal you are) just on timing

[native urchin]

i have been told its based on 25% of teh speed it has!

so peak prime rex would be going at 42.5km
regular adult rex would be going at 36kmh

[dusky surge]

absolutely busted

remove murdersprint lmao

[native urchin]

should only be used to ambush... without it a rex who is not peak is kinda cooked..... but should be usable only if u are above 60% stamina, or even 75%.... so it is used for the actual purpose of ambushing (i guess u can work around it by managing your stam but)

[steep otter]

WTF THAT IS FASTER THEM A CERATO INDEED LOL

Thats so stupid.

[native urchin]

cant disagree with that XD u got unlucky that it was in their peak phase pretty much

[steep otter]

something that big should not be moving at 42km/h

[dusky surge]

yup

funny that cera gets a speed nerf as elder but rex doesnt

make all elders slower PLEASE

[indigo rain]

Ngl higher hp and making prime elders slightly slower at the end of their lifecycle but better at surviving overall would probably be the better way to do these things like someone suggested ages ago. It is a survival game. Idk why theyre being made into combat demons. It feels very out of sync with the vision the devs are trying to project.

[steep otter]

YEAH.

Better trots worse speed

[vagrant plover]

How much speed does Cera lose?

Troodon is tough.
Adult 45
Prime (almost impossible) 41
Frail 33.3

[cosmic pelican]

A 100% prime cera is 36kmh, even slower while charged biting

[twilit juniper]

I do hope that by the time HT ends, normal fully grown dinosaurs will return to being the norm rather than prime elders on top of more prime elders with how easy it is

[steep otter]

The main issue with elders is how fast some of them are

All elders should be a bit slower them the adults but have better trots

[native urchin]

they should reward survival to get to prime... like actually have hunts for carnis or surviving hunts for herbis.... getting to low hp and surviving, should count.

if u travel around the map, eat ai or get pz in a corner of the map is too ez, but getting actually into surviving aspects where: if u survive you are going to grow stronger compared to others jsut simming on the corner of the map

[vagrant plover]

I'd prefer the same running speed but a slightly slower trot speed.

That would be much more comfortable, and you'd still feel older.

[steep otter]

Could also work tbh, but may feel a bit strange since larger dinos have a longer stride. Maybe just having the same stats should be the way

[vagrant plover]

I'd find that perfectly fine too.

I generally think it's bad that you get worse values at 100% than at 75%.

Especially speed.

[twilit seal]

The main issue with 100% is that even if youre prime you take 20% more damage

If youre frail you take 40% more damage

At peak prime you have 15% damage reduction

[indigo rain]

How was this found out what

[twilit seal]

People dig into files

Numbers are accessible to those who look

[indigo rain]

Thats incredibly strange to put in tbh and only encourages people to just hide after they hit peak prime

[twilit seal]

Thats the real issue with elder system cuz like, I get they want us to entomb etc. but even after entombing like 3-4 times and stacking all mutations, youre gonna be somewhat weaker than a peak prime. Thats why the nerfs at 100% should be reduced across the board. And even if youre not weaker hp wise or damage wise, youre still very slow

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message what does this person think it’s gonna happen in the live branch then?

[hasty coyote]

I can agree with many being slower, but not all. Certain species really rely on their speed, either because its their main stat (like galli and dryo) or because being even slightly slower could make a matchup miserable (like pachy vs teno/cera or dilo vs omni)

[jade tulip]

I have a question... Why are rexes faster than allos? Was outrun by two younger rexes and could do nothing against them in any capacity. Can't even run away. I dont do enough damage to do anything sizeable to them and my pounce also bugged. Is a nerf to tthe rexes speed something others would agree with? just curious

[sullen dragon]

Nah it just needs a stamina nerf

I’d like for allo to be bumped up a bit in speed though. Rex is still slower than 35kmh allo unless ambush is used and ambush only lasts 10 seconds. Allo can also use his pounce to make distance and Rex can never catch that

[hidden pilot]

Originally I’d have agreed with you, but I think as the Rex grows its speed should be nerfed a little faster, sure an allo is faster than a fully grown but a Rex that’s the same same as the allo even a little bigger which theoretically should still be heavier is much faster than an allo and not only faster but stronger so once it catches you which it will if it’s the same size then you are basically cooked. The. Stamina nerf is a must but I think the speeds as the rex grows should be readjusted too but I would also like the allo speed bumped it feels awfully slow

[jade tulip]

Must have used ambush speed then. Sure didn't feel like it though as they were fast af. Had no escape and they covered the same ground in faster time and managed to completely catch up to me in that time rip. I had no chance against 2 of them ;-; (rip trip entombed allo ;-;)

[sullen dragon]

Let’s look at a Rex that’s the same size as an allo. Adult allo is 2.6 tons but a Rex doesn’t even have a 2.6 ton stage but it shoots up from 1.8 tons to 2.8 tons so let’s compare 2.6 ton allo to 2.8 ton Rex. 2.8 ton Rex is around 33kmh base speed and can go up to 38-39kmh with ambush. This is only faster than allo when ambush is used, ambush only lasts 10 seconds, and an allo can absolutely destroy a Rex 1v1 that’s the same size as him. Allos only lose if the Rex is bigger. Now let’s look at 3.9 ton allo (prime allo) against 3.9 ton Rex. 3.9 ton Rex is around 31kmh and can go up to 36-37kmh with ambush speed. Again ambush speed only lasts 10 seconds. Allo can still destroy the 3.9 ton Rex with pounce spam. Rexes before the stamina buff struggled catching allos even by being slightly faster with ambush speed, simply due to how terrible Rex stam was. You saw basically no complaints about Rex catching allos since Rex stam was again very bad. Rn Rex can out run allos since he has more stam which is stupid and it’s really making Rex seem op. If you nerf the stamina then problem solved. Rex won’t be able to run for more than 20 secs like he did before the buff

So basically only the Rex stamina needs a nerf, not the speed. Peak prime Rex probably needs a speed nerf tho it feels too fast for a 12.3 ton animal

[hidden pilot]

Then maybe it’s that 10 seconds that’s the fault here, I watched cx die they were running for in my opinion more then 10 seconds not only did that catch but also surpassed and surrounded 10 seconds of being able to catch something that much smaller is insane, and unfortunately there is no single rex currently anywhere

[sullen dragon]

Was cx a 100% prime allo

[hidden pilot]

No I’d say about 65% growth about to be fully grown ish

[jade tulip]

I was around 80-90 i think

[hidden pilot]

No me wrong

[sullen dragon]

Yeah only way they catch him (if they’re subs) is by using ambush speed and that only lasts for 10 secs. If they get close cx could use his pounce to make distance. He won’t need to spam pounce either he only needs to use it if the Rex is very close and has ambush speed active

[sullen dragon]

Yeah you shouldn’t be too slow at that stage

[jade tulip]

i could have reached 100, i wasnt sure i hadnt checked for a while due to a crash and trying to wait for rexes to pass lmao

but last i checked about 10-20 mins before i died i was near the end

[sullen dragon]

If you were 100% then it’d make even more sense. Fresh sub Rexes are faster than 100% prime allos slightly even without ambush speed

[jade tulip]

then i must have been cause they kept closing that gap ;-;

thanks for the insight!! I really appreciate it!

[sullen dragon]

Of course! When Rex gets his stamina nerfed they won’t be able to run for that long so that’ll help ease things up

[jade tulip]

Ok that makes sense. How does spam pouncing work and how much stam does it decrease? When i knew i had no hope i turned to pounce but it just made me fall on my face lmao- What's the best way to combat the sheer amount of rexes? Feels like I havent seen anything else but me as a diff species haha

Another question if you don't mind, was witness to 6 allos trying to kill a sub adult rex and everyone was mowed down due to allos speed being buns and not being able to get full pounces off. Everyone got fractured so fast and rex just ran away after. Any advice for combat with rexes when there are enough of you? (Also he was using a rock to advantage so that sucked lmao but trying to get as much info and advice as possible :D ty again!)

[sullen dragon]

Run + press rmb to pounce and make distance since pounce gives you a distance push. It takes around 7% stam to use (I think?). There’s just too many Rexes in the HT rn due to dibble ai + insane stamina + sheer amount of regular ai. It’s ridiculous I can go as far as to say 90% of the pop are Rexes on most servers.

[jade tulip]

damn yeah a population control server limit would be fire upon release lmao, would be nice to see some other dinos other than the big T s lol

[sullen dragon]

If there’s only one Rex and a pack of allos are hunting him you generally want to run AT him at once and pounce him. He simply can’t concentrate on all of you and worst case scenario one of you gets pinned. If for example let’s say you’re a pack of 3 allos against a 6 ton Rex. If 3 of you are prime then you should charge him at once ——> one off you might get pinned —-> 2 others pounce him —-> combined weight of 2 prime allos are 7800 kg so if the Rex is smaller than 7800kg he will get pinned and die

[jade tulip]

Ohhh ok damn ty yeah I didn't know that. I'm used to playing omni and all of us taking turns at pouncing. Everyone else decided to also play very one or two at a time. Good to know for next time though!

[sullen dragon]

Yeah of course ^_^ generally as an allo pack you want to pounce the prey at once since your combined weight can really pin big stuff. I’ve witnessed 4 prime allos pin a prime trike the other day (12.5 tons) and it makes sense since 4 prime allos combined weight is 15.6 tons

[jade tulip]

Ok yeah that makes sense! Thanks again appreciate the advice! :D

[steep otter]

A elder rex managed to cacth up to my cerato so yeah 100% needs a nerf

The elder rex especialy the other speeds are more ok

[shut delta]

Allo needs a speed buff bad rn and so many other things need buffs

[faint timber]

👍🏻

[steep gazelle]

Allo can spam pounce to travel long distances without needing to charge pounce, so i think no

[faint timber]

You're so annoying. Hey, I'm having a terrible time right now.

Have you ever played Allo? It's really boring to play.

[steep gazelle]

It will be even more annoying for players with smaller creatures with Allo running just as fast as them and also having an ability that gives him an extremely long "jump" forward, and a pin

Allo needs a faster trot only

[faint timber]

Diablo can catch an allo, and an allo can't beat Diablo 1v1, so what do you say to that?

We've been waiting for this excitement for years, but all we have is disappointment. They need to at least get the speed up to 38-39.

[steep gazelle]

Don't get near a Diablo if you're not sure you can beat it, Allo has more Stam

[steep gazelle]

The maximum speed that the Allo should have is 36km/h, That would already help in this situation

[steep gazelle]

Don't forget that Allo weighs 2.6t-3.9t and has a Pin hab, This speed is extremely high for him

[faint timber]

That was boringgg and a total disappointment. We waited for this creature for years, but it turned out to be a useless character.

[steep gazelle]

No, you're just disappointed that Allo isn't as unbalanced as Rex

[eager saddle]

^

[faint timber]

😏

[faint timber]

The map is already 80% forest, so it’s not even that strong.

[eager saddle]

reminds me of cera players saying he's weak now x)

[steep gazelle]

Allo is very well balanced now, with only a few problems such as the trot being too slow

[faint timber]

Cera is in its best period right now, for one thing.

[eager saddle]

it's been dominating for at least a year now

just because rex is now in the game doesnt mean cera got weaker x) he's just not top anymore

[faint timber]

I miss the old Carno. It’s dead to me now.

[eager saddle]

fair enough

[faint timber]

Anyway, my only hope right now is that Rex gets fixed. And if Allo gets a bit better, plus Stego getting fixed too, of course.

Also, I’d still prefer Denio to get a bite buff instead of a grab. I want the bite to be the main feature.

I’d love to be able to challenge a Rex and a Stego near the water.

[eager saddle]

bite wouldnt really do anything though

only if people cross (and they barely do)

[faint timber]

Why wouldn’t it work?
If I had high damage, I could push back targets near the water, and they wouldn’t be able to drink—unless I go too far onto land. The shoreline would basically be mine. Before the gateway update, Stego vs. Denio used to be considered fair.

I think I just enjoy fighting head-to-head more, and also Denio is really hard to play right now.

Other Denios… then the Rexes… and all the safe drinking spots (there are way too many of them).

[eager saddle]

because either you can grab them or force them away. And the latter doesnt get you food. Also, people barely cross in unsafe places so biting swimmers is almost never an option

biting won't give you anything if you cant oneshot them or reach them.

[eager saddle]

oh I know deino hurts to play rn x)

[faint timber]

The old tactic worked very well in Isla Spiro's time, so why shouldn't it work for Gateway, and you know what...

[faint timber]

https://tenor.com/view/homeless-nah-id-win-gif-11399565856913576326

[eager saddle]

cuse people dont brawl anymore. Area is too big and they have other things to do now. And food is easier to get

[sullen dragon]

I don’t wanna hear it

[faint timber]

I bet the stego players, trike players, and rex would want to fight me. Anyway, this Denio is manageable for now, but I'm not playing anymore.

[eager saddle]

no...no they dont

there are a lot of safe spots to drink, you have to consider yourself lucky to even see something you can grab

[faint timber]

Ugh... Maybe I'm just missing the old days of war.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7SllWUQZy7U

an example from the past

[faint timber]

Even so, the other apex dinosaurs make fun of me when they drink water, and it annoys me, so I don't play anymore.

[eager saddle]

thats fair, they do 🙁

[eager saddle]

where people would go to the small islands and waterfall near omni rock and constantly get into stego fights? Fun times.

[faint timber]

There was a transition point between the center and south plans, and those were very fun times.

The old map was better. I looked at the gateway with hope, but it wasn't that good.

Isla Spiro's potential was actually very high; she was the biggest contender in the game (only more than half of it was closed).

[eager saddle]

agreed agreed

[eager saddle]

for fighting? Yes. For actual survival? Not as much

[dusky surge]

the old map was absolutely far worse lmao

it was "better" for deinos, but that was about it

it had nothing that prepared it for the future roster

pretty much any biome that wasn't plains or rivers was completely thrown aside and basically impossible to survive in

[rigid tulip]

the gameplay loop was significantly more fun and engaging though and the map design made that happen

forced interaction 24/7

you always felt a little uneasy

[dusky surge]

i'll be real i despised spiro's gameloop and absolutely did not feel it was more fun nor engaging, and i genuinely quit in 6.5 because i could not take the map anymore

[rigid tulip]

I have never once felt any stress getting my herbi diet on gateway besides going to highlands whereas on spiro getting your diet was always a terrifying risk having to run into an open area or cross a river

after spiro i genuinely couldnt play herbi anymore because i felt no sense of fear anymore

[dusky surge]

it was awful

no room for exploration, no room for going ANYWHERE but centre, spawn zones just led to battle royale in centre over and over again, entire swaths of the map entirely worthless, herbivore diets were literally the same goddamn mundane triangle over and over again

god i hated it

[wise obsidian]

I will not miss the 30 fps center hotspot and the constant loop of visiting northwest, south, then swamp to check out what's there

It was too linear

[elfin night]

Even then it was such a clown clan fest for deino

The main thing that dissuaded me from playing it at all was how much you relied on deino mercy. The whole playable map was just a narrow hallway without any place to hide or grow quietly. If a grown croc wanted you dead, you were dead in the water or walked down to death, which is something that persisted until today

Deino in spiro was even worse than in gateway in terms of player agency other than eating

[steep otter]

Spiro sucked

[elfin night]

It really did

Unless you were a central plains pvper

[frosty heart]

Ideally, we should have done Isle V3 remake , but they're not ready to talk about that.

Gateway used to be better, but it's become very saturated now

[faint timber]

I haven't played Isle v3 much.

[fallow blaze]

has someone experience with the new stego? is he feels like just food, or is he more than even just food?

[native urchin]

imo its just a different play style... i havent tried it yet, but now u have to focus on dealing bleed and disengaging, more then killing your target.... so not spamming the attack too much, get a few hits, then keep the pressure on the hunter (or run if its a rex)

[fallow blaze]

yeah i didn't play him too. I mean, its ok to make him like that, but a little bit stronger he could be.
friends told me: with those stats a group of 5 stegos would lose 3 of them until the first rex of two would die.
and this picture feels like "its not worth it".

i like different play style's don't get me wrong. im also not a stego lover. it was just hard nerfs for him i was wondering about

[steep gazelle]

Currently, it's practically just food

Stego needs to have a much lower stamina cost to use the Power Swing

[native urchin]

I mean, you shouldn’t compare stego to Rex!
Now Rex stamina is worse, so u should be able to escape again

[steep gazelle]

Then he'll be good as a bleeder

[fallow blaze]

if you want make him to an herd-animal, i could look in many other ways

[native urchin]

Yeah stego needs the stamina buff on the attacks

[fallow blaze]

yes something like that don note in announcement

[slim dragon]

Didn't they just make rex's stam 100s ?

[fallow blaze]

if i understand it right, trike stego and rex got 100s

[vale brook]

they just changed it

From what I’ve been told (haven’t tested yet)

Rex sprints for 76 seconds
Trike sprints for 90 seconds
Stego sprints for 111 seconds

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[slim dragon]

Ah yeah didn't see the announcement
What are the new values ?

[fallow blaze]

well allo is worse too against him. now he needs 5 hits to kill an allo, if iam not wrong. that is quiet a lot.
2 hits like before was more realistic - it still was. fossils told the same way

sadly don't know about the values

[native urchin]

I did get bit by 4 swings, but with Epi and sitting down immediately I bled down to 20% ! If the stego didn’t let me sit I would have died so quick

[fallow blaze]

oh yeah? is his bleed-damage that strong?

[native urchin]

Yes, 2 ps bleeds an allo out (same growth, meaning adult vs adult) if u keep the pressure and make him run

So basically it changes the playstyle! Don’t spam attack too much! Play defensive, get a few hits then pressure him.. if it keeps attacking I would knock with ps but not follow up (if I had already gotten some hits before) to keep the Stam to pressure him

Now this is how I would try to play, I have not actually tried! So might be all bs! But as muen said, stego needs a buff on stamina usage on its attacks, to be able to do what I have in mind, especially if dealing with a pack of 3 allos

[fallow blaze]

i see. thank you.
we will see until release if he change again or be that way. i think it will stay like he is now. but who knows 🙂

[shut delta]

That drains stam very fast and with the stat or all other Dino’s, it needs more speed

[steep echo]

also the whole speed boost thing from right click has got to go. It got removed from raptor and troodon way back

[faint timber]

You're messing with me, Stego. Right now is my worst period. Why isn't anyone playing Stego? We're bleeding for Rex for free. It's not saving us.

Of course, if Rex really improves, this crazy bleeding Stego might be nice, but the damage is terrible.

[faint robin]

Rex does fracture on every attack

Bye stegos bye trikes

[tight cove]

Bye everything 😭

[maiden temple]

@faint robin Drop that guy, I think he's just ragebaiting you at this point. Looks like an AI conversation from Where Winds Meet lol

[faint robin]

Yeah I see

Tired of trike being rex but worse everywhere except BoB

[maiden temple]

Yeah hopefully the fact that it simply can't get away will be taken into consideration when final balancing changes hit. It has been pretty consistent for release so far

It would be nice to see rexes use tactics and utilise ambush more. It's far more exciting to fight a smart player anyway

Except for bush deinos, they're absolutely evil and give jumpscares

I don't miss these at all

[maiden temple]

Beep has so many colour choices in HT, wow. You can be grey, gray, ash or.. hear me out.. Dust!

[maiden temple]

This can't be right

[native urchin]

i cant even tell what u are 😭

[maiden temple]

Beep 🙁

[fierce cargo]

Okay, well... why do I feel like there's something fundamentally wrong about the game's balance in general? Like... The Isle is fun, but things are off, almost like they've always been off to some extent.
Currently I'm locked out of the game till I get a new GPU, but I've always felt, whether from videos on youtube or in-game, that the overall ecosystem of the Isle is just... wrong.

The carnivore to herbivore ratio. The large to small dinosaur ratio... Both of them seem to be something like at least 2 to 1, whereas it should really be 1 to 2.

First, shouldn't Omnis or be the fastest carnivores? They have that runner bodybuild. Carno, and especially Rex... Why are they the fastest? Carno should be bigger than Cera. Its stun should be strong because of its weight, not because of its sheer speed I think. The idea that Carno should be a small game hunter - where there is barely any small game to speak of aside from f#king Omnis - is just wrong. What, everything designed to bully the nonexistent smaller creatures?

I'll continue later, y'all can agree and disagree, let me know, I wanna see a discussion, not that I'm in power of anything, just curious.

[steep otter]

Horrible Change

[fierce cargo]

Biting Stego's head gives all 3 fractures? lmao

[fierce cargo]

Also, in my experience, being a herbi was kinda boring. Nothing ever really hunted me, even as a Dryo, let alone a Maia. I had to go to croc infested waters to off myself as maia, jump off a cliff as pachy, it's just... I dunno.
Probably isn't so much, now that rex and allo craze has all players be rex and allo, but that's not normal either. Allo shouldn't be a better Raptor, and Rex shouldn't be as fast as it can be.

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[fierce cargo]

It's carnivores hunting other carnivores for the most part as well...

[golden coral]

Carno is pretty well designed to run I'd say, and it's always been one of the fastest critters, and more or less designated small game hunter (which seems to be what they want). If you were to make omni that fast, you'd need to remove their pin, most likely their pounce too, or otherwise severely nerf them in various ways. As for carni to herbi, or small to large ratios, well, carnis have always been more popular than herbis, and generally large critters are more popular, due to lack of things to do outside of fighting and such.

[fierce cargo]

What if Omni was the fastest carni, but small herbivores were even faster?

I mean, I want to solve that large things are OP, instead of them having a proper set of advantages and disadvantages over small things.

Let small things run away or hide from large ones, so large things have to ambush em.

[golden coral]

You could, but it would also depend on how fast you can reasonbly make them, animation wise and so on. You could just replace carno with omni speed wise, but that would still probably require a nerf on pin/pounce for that to work out. And not sure what carno would do then.

[fierce cargo]

Basically, make all creatures equally fun and equally difficult, more or less.

[golden coral]

And if you want to turn omni into the small game hunter, then I doubt that'd go over well

[fierce cargo]

Fair, that's not what I want, so that part's difficult.
I'd want Omnis to packhunt stuff larger than them mainly, which, sure, does happen.
Also, omnis don't needa be faster than their current 47kph. You can just slow Carnos and maybe Dilos.

Troodon could prob be cut some slack as well, idk tbf it's kinda hard to talk Troodon.

[golden coral]

But if you slow them, what are they supposed to do and be then, and how are they supposed to handle omnis?

Dilo is faster than omni so it doesn't just get pinned/pounced/grappled I think, and carno is meant to hunt omnis so

[maiden temple]

Carno is built for speed and regulates raptor packs pretty well, I think that's well thought out

Carni to herbi ratio will always be pretty skewed because.. teeth rawr

[faint robin]

Herbivore debuff to a playable

[twilit seal]

Herbis are pretty strong in general, mostly stronger than their carni counter parts

[maiden temple]

Herbis are more fun to play imho, but I understand the appeal of carnis

People have this persistent idea that herbis are passive chatbots for some reason

[twilit seal]

Its cuz most herbi players just play it to grow safely with 0 combat expectations and nesting etc, resulting in them being worse players in general

In good hands herbis are insanely powerful

Like ive been a teno main for a decent while and had little to fear as a solo teno, same with diablo

Stegos and trikes are just immune on live

[golden coral]

Because herbis are supposed to be nice to each other xD

[twilit seal]

They all die cuz they panic and struggle to fight

[twilit seal]

Not necessarily, I kill herbis on herbi pretty often lol

[maiden temple]

Eh disagree, most carnis aren't good nor can hunt well - no ambush, roar around and make it obvious

[golden coral]

None the less, they are expected to be nice, hence "supposed"

[twilit seal]

Not from a realistic perspective either tho

In general, the herbi playerbase is far more aggressive in this game as well

[golden coral]

And yeah, no idea where you get this from that herbis would be worse players, when it's been teno that required skill from the very beginning, and now maia too

Meanwhile carnis tend to have higher speed/agility, making them far easier

[maiden temple]

And all their kit is in front, making it much easier to kite/feint

[golden coral]

But since when are people expecting realism, people are expecting herbis to be nice, or have done so, ever since way back when

[twilit seal]

Yeah they require skill, thats why most suck

[golden coral]

Its herbi vs carni, not species vs species, as much as it should be the latter

Or has been throughout most of the games history at least

[twilit seal]

Because they compete for the same resources

[golden coral]

Not much, and even when they do, people still expect, or expected you to be nice

[twilit seal]

A carni isnt going to eat your herbi food

[golden coral]

Hence the "canni herbi" thing

[twilit seal]

Thats naive

[golden coral]

Even if that makes no sense xD

[twilit seal]

You dont expect anyone to be nice in this game if you want to survive long in general

[golden coral]

Oh I agree, but I've mostly been teno, later stego, and so on, and I know how people have seen it, even back in legacy and prog, it's far more often carni vs herbi, not you vs everyone else

And the devs don't mind mixherding, just mixpacking

So there's precedent for the "be nice to other herbis", even if it can be frustrating at times

[maiden temple]

Yeah it's still upsetting for people to see 😄

[twilit seal]

Mixherding is equally as bad as mixpacking

Hence why you get the red icon

[golden coral]

I agree, the devs do not seem to

[twilit seal]

I mean, devs do not have any mechanics against either mixpacking nor mixherding so far only red icon, which appears for both

[maiden temple]

Yeah playables can cover their weaknesses in a mixed herd/pack

[golden coral]

Yet, but we know they want to add something

[maiden temple]

No way to fight that off

[twilit seal]

Travelling together is fine, fighting together is not

[golden coral]

Agreed, but not sure that's how the devs see it, or will see it, but I guess we'll find out when/if they figure out what mechanics to add to deal with it

But overall, the playerbase do expect herbis to be nice to each other, far more often than not, even if it doesn't always make sense

[fierce cargo]

Carno should be hunting things like Dibbles and Stegos I'd say.

[golden coral]

Then you'd have to really rework, resize and otherwise adjust carno, massively. And it'd also be close to allo at that point. What should hunt omni then, if not carno?

[fierce cargo]

Nothing, because it's a carnivore. That goes for all carnivores. They should be rivals, fighting each other so each has more prey, not because eating each other itself is worth the risk. That's what you see on lions and hyenas. They're rivals, not predator and prey.

[maiden temple]

The animal itself is thought to be very fast with a pretty interesting bite, allos are stego hunters 😄

Giving a hunter its own niche that somewhat overlaps sometimes is much better than have everyone compete over the same stuff. It's more interesting

[fierce cargo]

Sure, but you give Carno a niche that doesn't exist in proper quantities.

[maiden temple]

It's the scariest thing you can encounter when small, there is no escaping it unless you find a solid rock quickly enough

[fierce cargo]

Well again, unless you make raptors the carno food, which doesn't seem too realistic.

[maiden temple]

You're forgetting that everyone starts small, there is always food. It's just hard to find

[fierce cargo]

I mean, juvis are a different set of thing as well, true enough.

As for too few herbis, maybe aside from dibble herds, there could also be some dryo herds or whatever.

[eager saddle]

how to gut carnis 101

[fierce cargo]

Gut them?

[eager saddle]

make them very bad

[fierce cargo]

You make carnis very bad by them not hunting other carnis for food?

[eager saddle]

yes

[fierce cargo]

Nah sure the whole mindset and balance would need tweaks everywhere, this is a complex thing

[eager saddle]

because 90% of the time, that's the only huntable option

[golden coral]

Sure, you could remove carnis from diets, they've already kind of done that with some, like rex. But organs are still a thing, and as you said, rivalry is a thing. So what does omni then have a rivalry with? What does omni fear then?

[eager saddle]

imagine deino only being able to eat herbivores

[fierce cargo]

Yeah I'm trying to see if there's an alternative real8ty where 90% of shid you encounter isn't carnivores.

[fierce cargo]

Fair, exclude Deino and Ptera.

What I mean is like

[maiden temple]

Yeah the ecosystem is skewed, I'm hoping for some changes to all smalls to make them more attractive to play

[fierce cargo]

Carnis cud be removed from each other's diet.
You could still eat other carnis as emergency food.

[maiden temple]

I'd love a dryo herd, it's been years since I joined one :3

[eager saddle]

but then it would literally be ''pray you come across a herbivore you can kill''

[fierce cargo]

See? We want basically the same thing, it's just really hard to figure out how to get it

[eager saddle]

instead of ''pray you come across ANYTHING you can kill''

you'd have to massively nerf herbivores for this to even be considered an option

[fierce cargo]

True, but herbivore to carnivore ratio is wrong, it shud somehow be fixed such that what you say is a non-issue, due to the abundance of herbivores.

[fierce cargo]

Tenos should probably be able to run quicker, but be less tanky for one. So they can be ambushed, and are not a bossfight to kill.

BUT if you skew your ambush, the Teno can run.

[golden coral]

We could make one, I just need to get my new laptop so I can play the game with more than 2 fps xD

Though not sure how well dryo does with elder system currently

[eager saddle]

okay but what's stopping carnivores from just...surviving off AI?

[maiden temple]

Awful tbh xD

[eager saddle]

and don't say disable it, because that will kill any chance for a juvi to grow up

[golden coral]

Then I'd rather stick on main evrima, than HT if so

[fierce cargo]

Yea well the AI thing is problematic a thing too.

[maiden temple]

There's not enough for everyone so some competition will always happen

Except for the AI dibs x.x

AI dinos are not the ideal thing to put in the game atm

The other small AI is fine though

[frosty heron]

This man is absolutely spitting facts now

[fierce cargo]

How about a reduced island size as to increase player density?

[eager saddle]

but it's necessary because otherwise the juvis simply cannot find food, especially when they cant kill other species juvis for it

[maiden temple]

Already happened once, not that long ago I think

[eager saddle]

it did

[maiden temple]

I'd prefer more players per server than a smaller map though

[eager saddle]

same

[fierce cargo]

Add more small AI. Frogs that everyone can catch, in swamps and around rivers.

[eager saddle]

I'd just rather have them able to kill other juvis tbh. It's a more consistent form of food

[maiden temple]

Swamps should be full of life :c

[fierce cargo]

I'd prefer an entire globe of a map with 7 million players, the issue with that is hardware limitations. That's why a smaller map is better.

[eager saddle]

it is! You can hear the crickets

[maiden temple]

hahaha

[fierce cargo]

Yup. Frogs, lizards, rats, insects, turtles...

And herbi food of some kind.

[frosty heron]

If ive been on a full 100 player server walking for 4 hours and only having 1 pvp encounter, theres some issues with the map/AI spawns for sure , mostly the dibble fields , that should be removed

[maiden temple]

Yeah 100 was never enough

[frosty heron]

Actually a good idea would be spawning the Dibbles at higher % on patrol zones instead of having them flock all the time in the same place

And only 1 or 2 at max

Not whole herd

[maiden temple]

I wish PZ weren't a thing anymore, I like herbis growing and migrating around where carnis can crash the party

[fierce cargo]

That's also kinda fair tho cuz if you do the math and distribute it so there's more than 0 of each species, then...

[fierce cargo]

We have how many species?

[frosty heron]

Problem is that carnis wont crash the party most of the time because each group has his own PZ and everytime you get into one you most likely wont find herbies there

[maiden temple]

I even miss spiro sometimes, I knew my herd would be hunted on the way to radishland, so we gathered before we went 🙁

[frosty heron]

Its just lucky based you encounter people there

[maiden temple]

That's what I mean, PZ ruins migrations and predictability

[frosty heron]

Yeah , I wont remove them but rework some functions

[maiden temple]

You can cheese a PZ if you have someone with you as well, spawning a new one with a new group leader

[frosty heron]

Yeah that also is broken , ive been doing it everything I play herbi to growth in the same place for hours

[maiden temple]

I hate it v.v

[frosty heron]

You can pretty much growth a Stego safely doing it at North lake

[fierce cargo]

1 Rex
2 Carno
3 Allo
4 Cera
5 Dilo
6 Omni
7 Troo
8 Ptera
9 Deino
10 Herra
11 Galli
12 Beipi
13 Dryo
14 Hypsy
15 Trike
16 Dibble
17 Stego
18 Pachy
What did I forget?

[golden coral]

Wasn't that kind of how it was supposed to be, player encounters being very rare

[maiden temple]

The best one 🙁

[fierce cargo]

Teno

Maia

20

[frosty heron]

Everyone wants more player interaction , im not sure if thats supposed to be honestly , thats on the devs not the community

If they want player encounter to be so rare then they gotta either work on the food drain on Carnis , or get more AI

[fierce cargo]

100 / 20 = 5

[golden coral]

And hence, we're getting AI dinos

For good and ill

[fierce cargo]

5 creatures of each species.

[frosty heron]

Its very barebones now , its just dibble fields (a mistake imo) and Gallis

[maiden temple]

I think reworking migration zones is all that's needed. Make them completely random to spawn in any zone and disappear/change after draught/flood events. Just anything really, both species can see MZ, carnis a little bit later than herbis. The idea is fantastic but a bit underwhelming as is

[fierce cargo]

Now if you were to split those 5 such that ratios aren't 1:1, but more realistic to what an ecosystem would look like, well... You'd get what? Small dinos numerous, nice, except large ones, there's only like 1 or 0 per island.

[maiden temple]

There are private servers with population control and it semi-works

[fierce cargo]

I mean, one or two rexes max per island is what Jurassic Park had and it does sorta make sense butl..

[golden coral]

Hopefully they're at least better than the dryos we had back on spiro

[maiden temple]

Idk how that would work for officials though, it would be a bit annoying lol

[fierce cargo]

Yea well... sure, higher max playerpop wud be nice.

[frosty heron]

Unofficials are kinda doing that

[fierce cargo]

I guess I see that the devs have a hard job. lol

[maiden temple]

Making them hard to grow/keep fed is the only real population control devs can implement without it being invasive

[golden coral]

How does PZs work?

[maiden temple]

It spawns for you/your group close to where you are (they are pre-set as well I'm pretty sure, but there's quite a few of them so it always spawns close), even if you're very far from any MZ. Small amounts of diet food

The bigger you are the less food you get, big stomachs need more after all but it sustains you very well

You can grow on PZ alone, not sure about trike but all other herbis can sustain themselves

So the only reason to go in more populated areas is to touch MZ and sanctuary for your elder reqs

[fierce cargo]

True... At some point, the mindset of the playerbase matters a lot. I think a form of the old Progression system, except where herbi and carni tree are intertwined in some way that makes these number ratios roughly right for this "healthy ecosystem" I talk about, could kinda fix things. But, then growth times would probably have to be adjusted as well, idk.

[maiden temple]

Yeah it's so many little things that you have to think about, I don't envy the devs at all. One small change can throw balance off even more

[fierce cargo]

True.

It's like the butterfly effect. lol

[maiden temple]

mhm

It doesn't help that we have apexes, and then pretty small animals in comparison to them to work around xD

and then people that play the game in a deathmatch way only that point out how this and that is not fair, while in a survival scenario these encounters look completely different

eh x.x

[fierce cargo]

Maybe the hardest thing is that we still know so little about dinosaurs, so you can't just like, give them realistic stats and then throw each other at them. We don't know what's realistic, it's all just educated guesses.

[golden coral]

What about after growth, can you use a PZ as a sort of territory, to live in a specific area for a longer period without running out of diets/food entirely?

[fierce cargo]

Today, rex is thought to have only been capable of running at like... 20-30kph?

[golden coral]

Even if you could, it wouldn't work in this game, since most critters are either not entirely accurate in the first place, or not designed to live together at all

[fierce cargo]

Thought also to have been fatter than previously thought.

[fierce cargo]

True, millions of years of evolution separated them, or thousands of kilometres. But alas you could blame the imbalance on that, instead of cryin about devs balancing stuff weirdly. lol

[maiden temple]

You can, I don't think there's a limit to these based on growth, great for solos and small groups can spawn them one after another by regrouping

[fierce cargo]

So yea, I don't envy the devs.

[eager saddle]

yeah whats gonna kill you? A deino?

[maiden temple]

Swamp stego is the best stego, too bad the whole area is mostly abandoned

Stego just fits in there sooo well

[golden coral]

Oh good, just need a suitable area for a dryo then!

[maiden temple]

Somewhere with safe water and rocks!

I think there is a cave with a pool inside, I don't remember where exactly though :c

I was nested there on pachy twice but never noted it down

[faint timber]

@carmine crypt We don't have to stun them, just don't let them knock us down, and that's it, then we win.

[carmine crypt]

look Rex can Fractur pin and cancel the power swing we need a stun to parry a crush ore any cc

[faint timber]

The idea is good, but we don't really need the stun mechanic. Even if we don't stun, we can still defeat Rex.

(Personally, I'd like to see the stun added, but the administrators and community might not accept

Let them not just pin us down, and if the bone fracture attack improves a little, then the problem will be solved.

[carmine crypt]

look it dose not have to be a stun per say that why i to stay stun ore stagger the stagger would simply animation cancel what we need since there is nothing that stop rex from burst dmg kill u on the spot and having the mut that makes sure that u wont die from beed if u rest

[golden coral]

@carmine cryptI'd say put running swing at 10%, standing swing at 5% and then jab at 4%, should be okay costs for the attacks. And yes, running swing should have a higher stun, not sure on standing swing (depends on if that one is also supposed to be used for larger targets or not).

[faint timber]

I accept it, but the real question is whether the developers will accept it.

[hasty coyote]

Could make the standing swing only get increased stun threshold on headshots

[carmine crypt]

if stego is ment to be viable and fun to play they might idk i can only hop

[hasty coyote]

Because power swing in general was added specifically to combat larger dinos

[golden coral]

I don't think that's possible currently

[carmine crypt]

stun on head and stagger on boddy hits would be awsome

[carmine crypt]

they could use the Cera mechanic ...

[hasty coyote]

It could require a new system for checking stuns, but it probably wouldn’t be that hard.

if attack is headshot, increase stun threshold. Then check for stun. Then decrease stun threshold.

[hasty coyote]

Stuns and staggers are the same thing

Only variants of hard cc we have are stuns/staggers, knockdowns, and pins

[golden coral]

In what way?

[hasty coyote]

And lunge if you consider it different from pins

[carmine crypt]

if u stagger u animation is many cancels at least the stagger i am referring to if its called something ells ...

[carmine crypt]

Cera gets buffs wen holding the Carge attack u could use the same logic for better cc

[golden coral]

Oh, yeah, but that wouldnt be locational, just an overall buff, but you could just add higher CC on the attacks at base

[hasty coyote]

All stuns/staggers cancel all attacks except specific ones which are given an exception and when latency is not in your favor.

[hasty coyote]

Honestly a global buff to make your stability modifier affected by location would be nice.

[carmine crypt]

That would be very neat

[carmine crypt]

there sould be a difference on u getting cc rocked on you Face and getting Hit on ur Body ore Tail the same how bleed and and raw dmg are differently on what location u get hit

[indigo rain]

@tulip pond easiest answer is keep your eyes open, dont get ambushed (live in dense forest, on rocks, etc to see them before they can get close), and just run away when you see one.

Old video, but this was when allo would 1-shot you with bleed. That teno eventually got entombed like many others ive played. Ive actually yet to die to an allo outside of as a baby when testing fights.

Ive used the extra logs and trees in the forest to my advantage a lot recently now that ik what will block me and what wont. High stam regen builds seem to do well with a little fracture resist to escape young rexes too

https://youtu.be/8OGQeWMAynA?si=zap9JVkGPqgnMqnh

[thorn mountain]

@frail imp getting rid of mot of those will remove ceras identity, but removing gastro is one way of making cera worse, They could also get rid of charge bite completely in favor of something like a frenzied bite where it bites 4 times in a quick succession but it cannot be used while running or even trotting making it a true defensive move.

[frail imp]

I never said get rid of the things that I listed I meant with all those things in account the charge bite nerf seems more reasonable

[thorn mountain]

I know you said not to remove them, but alot of said nerfs you could do would also remove its identity, best way is just to change chargebite as thats super oppresive and is making cera more of a hunter rather than a corpsebully scavenger

[frail imp]

I don’t really see how just nerfing its charge bite is removing its identity

[thorn mountain]

im not saying that

[frail imp]

I am not saying it will be trash I just want it to have a negative side to it

[thorn mountain]

im saying nerfing something like its body buff or manual vomit or eating rotten things would remove its identity, getting rid of chargebite imo is the best way to make cera fit its niche

[frail imp]

Most things in this game have a positive and negative and the charge bite has none

[thorn mountain]

I know

[frail imp]

Sure I agree with that, bit imo they are never going to remove it.
The entire community for years has been begging for it to be nerfed and they keep buffing it.

I am just being realistic by saying it should get nerfed.

We both know they are not going to get rid of it completely.

[thorn mountain]

yea

[frail imp]

So we agree

Like with Everything in this game there is a positive and negative.
You pounce as a omni you can latch on and do good damage, but you consume stamina and rish the threat of missing which is a big opening

or the fact when dilo goes in for a bite it would need to be careful since it is not as agile and there is a risk there.
The cera's CB has no negatives.
You can hold it out for as long as you want and you can instantly do it again with massive damage, and there is barly an opening.

[slim narwhal]

i agree with u but ceras charge does have a limit and the dmg depends on the time u charge

[tight cove]

@frail imp funny enough cera has even more abilites not on your list 😭

[frail imp]

Wdym limit?
It does masive damage and there is barly any wind up and it powers up very fast

[frail imp]

Please say I want to add more to the list

[dawn cipher]

Doesn't it power up in under 3sec?

[slim narwhal]

it stops if you keep holding it for to long

[dusky surge]

there is no time limit to charge bite, they removed that

[slim narwhal]

but it should be less time

[slim narwhal]

fr buff cera

[dusky surge]

you can hold it forever

[frail imp]

they removed that

[slim narwhal]

that's so dumb what do they have in their heads

[frail imp]

#balance-feedback message feel free to give a ✅ if you agree

[tight cove]

cera has natural bleed resistance, has a higher base swim speed than most other species, takes no dmg from small teirs while eating, can alt bite in water, natural fracture resistance, and i still might be missing something 💀

[dawn cipher]

Either nerf cera or buff everything else angrylaugh~1 Whichever is less work lol

[frail imp]

I would honestly just like the dev team to give a public opinion on why they keep buffing it.

[tight cove]

cera can also eat rotten meat and bones

[slim narwhal]

it was fine because before their weren't any other carni to hunt mid size herbs but they need to stop now

[frail imp]

Croc can do that but considering it can do so much, yea it's a joke

Btw has anyone reliablely seen a solo cera?
Like they are always in groups 😭

[dawn cipher]

My hot take is that more carnis, or at least ptera, should be able to eat rotten meat, since they're scavengers? But that's also part of cera's whole problem. It's supposed to be a "corpse bully" scavenging kills off other animals, but in reality it's just plainly the most powerful mid-tier in the game. That is, it's super competent as an active hunter running things down rather than scavenging

[slim narwhal]

yeah ceras always get together until 4

[tight cove]

yeah i see solo ceras

[tight cove]

cera is so strong 1 single cera can solo an allo 💀

[dawn cipher]

Solo ceras are reasonably easy to kill as maia or teno, but groups of them will melt you with vomit stun charge bite spam (in current live branch)

[frail imp]

I will say this tbh.
I LOVE how the allo pins it in the hordetest.
the only good thing icl

[slim narwhal]

nah

depends a lot

if their both prime at the same % allo wins every time if it isnt bad

[dawn cipher]

Cera cannot solo an allo unless the allo has 0 brain cells, because the allo can RMB to win no matter how bad they are xD

[frail imp]

I will be going allo a lot when it comes to the main branch just so I can maintain the cera popuation 🤣

[tight cove]

cera has 2 options option A you starve it to death, option B if hes bad enough you can just maul him

[slim narwhal]

if allo is bad yeah cera just tail rides it

but a half decent allo demolishes ceras

[dawn cipher]

Yeah, the skill floor for the cera is much higher than for allo in that matchup

[frail imp]

If they remove the allo being able to pin a cera and if the cera get's no nerfs I will be baffled.

[slim narwhal]

im pretty sure they cant now

with the new thresholds

[frail imp]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[dawn cipher]

I am reasonably sure they either planned or have made cera slower? Not sure if this actually happened or was only speculated about

[frail imp]

The HD is not over so who knows

I will wait for it's conclusion then I will see

[frail imp]

It was a nerf in the past but it was very light.
barley noticeable

[tight cove]

does anyone know the base weight for adult allo? i forgot

[dawn cipher]

That makes sense, because I didn't really notice the difference lol

[frail imp]

I go carno because it's the best thing that can kill it but When the first cera goes down the BB makes it So hard

But with the maia buffs I am very happy with that

Going to wipe the floor with this mf when it drops to the main branch

[slim narwhal]

2,6T

[tight cove]

maia now is currently op ngl 💀

[slim narwhal]

fr

anything that's not a rex gets mauled

[frail imp]

Nice, I hope the cera's go extinct

[slim narwhal]

for me cera are kinda fine if they nerf bile

after u vomit ur so doomed every single time

[tight cove]

ok so i do think cera does get pinned by allo unless they changed the pounce math recently

[slim narwhal]

they did i saw a post of a cera with 2 allos on it

[dawn cipher]

This excites me because I've been learning maia on live branch recently, having a lot of fun with it

[tight cove]

wtf????? yeah allo is COOKED 🤣

[slim narwhal]

yeah the new attack is op asf

[dawn cipher]

Yeah, the vomit is crazy. If it stays, I think it should only be applied on charge bites, not regular bites

[slim narwhal]

even rexs of the same size as you u have no problem

[slim narwhal]

vomit only applies on charge bites

im pretty sure

[tight cove]

this not true unless they changed something reecently

[slim narwhal]

it was like that before

[dawn cipher]

I was a (small) carno sitting in a bush, had a cera walk up and regular bite me and I vomited instantly

[slim narwhal]

or the bile is almost nothing

[tight cove]

cera always applied vomit even with regular bites

[slim narwhal]

im pretty sure they dont

my bile never goes down with normal attacks

[dawn cipher]

On current live branch they absolutely do apply it

[slim narwhal]

are yall sure because i use normal bites when i dont want to waste bile

[tight cove]

im sure

[dawn cipher]

No charge bite sound

[tight cove]

yup this is proof

made the maia vomit with no charge bite

[slim narwhal]

if it does apply it's almost nothing but it should be nothing at all

[tight cove]

it depends on the targets weight but regular bites do apply less bile than charged ones

[dawn cipher]

He didn't even bite me that much, I was still on green health and regular bites made me puke

[tight cove]

cera does need a nerf though fr, i cant believe the devs keep buffing it randomly 😭

imo its a better carnivore than allo

[dawn cipher]

For real 💀 If that guy had had even 1.5 brain cells to rub together and actually use charge bite, he would probably have melted me because I'm a noob maia player and that vomit stunlock is brutal

[slim narwhal]

that was one the worst cera players i ever seen

standing behind a maia is not a smart thing to do