balance-feedback-discussion

[faint robin]

Rex is also way smaller in your vid

[frosty heron]

Its 7 tons , yeah its smaller and it shouldnt win , but it literally killed it on a single flip , which means that whole combo is more than 7k dmg , if that lands on a FG Rex while doesnt kill it you already losed the fight

And you can land a thrash on a CC combo to FG Rexes

[mellow badger]

i have a question for the devs, why cant i catch a crab as a gali?

its one of my main food sources when im traveling the beach

[vale brook]

you may have to bite it

[mellow badger]

ok, how do i do that if they are constantly scudling around and i can only kick while mooving? D:

[viscid mica]

Think I might need to grow a stego to see how it’s handling the damage changes

[sullen dragon]

Isn’t trike getting a turn radius buff

Pretty sure dondi said trike is getting that buff soon

[faint robin]

No its not

[sullen dragon]

It is

Dondi said it

[faint robin]

Sub amd juv already got it

Where?

[sullen dragon]

On stream the other day I believe

Just saw the clip, that first trike literally had better turn radius than the Rex too…. He just messed up by missing an attack so the Rex got behind him. And second trike was absolute trash at the game

[viscid mica]

Na tbf well bro did get caught hacking he is still one of the best Rex’s I’ve seen. The first trike was doing good he just threw by trying to close the distance with a charge rather than keeping the spin up. Second like nemesis said was just bad.

Thou I do think trike could use a very very minor turn speed increase just enough for instead of being JUST able to keep turn pace if sparing and backstep turning it can atleast be slightly ahead or equal if it does that

[sullen dragon]

Agreed

[faint robin]

Second was fractured in 2 crushes

[viscid mica]

K but look at how he started that fight

He was losing either way

The skill difference was diabolical

That’s litterally a noob trike vs a Rex 1 trick who hasn’t felt grass in 9 years

[mellow badger]

lol

[twilit seal]

The first trike had the right ideas and wasnt doing bad I agree, he simply was too small to stun the rex and got fractured from head crushes

[viscid mica]

Yeah

[twilit seal]

Idk why they buffed that but nerfed the damage, imo shouldve been the opposite, since once youre fractured its over for both stego and trike

But since damage got nerfed, I dont mind the fracture buff I guess, stam is the main issue tho

[viscid mica]

Tbf if your bigger or same size as the stego you basically win

[twilit seal]

Not same size

If youre within stegs stun range, its very difficult

[viscid mica]

True

[dusky surge]

they didn't even nerf the damage btw, crush damage is still the same

[twilit seal]

Otherwise yes

[twilit seal]

Yeah 1k, its the nerfed damage

[dusky surge]

nope

[twilit seal]

I have the numbers wait

[dusky surge]

it was 1k before the patch, absolutely no change

[twilit seal]

Yeah but its not the original

[dusky surge]

the nerfs were to its alt-attacks and regular bites

[twilit seal]

It used to be more

[dusky surge]

yea, ages ago

[twilit seal]

1k damage is the nerfed damage, ppl were complaining its too low for the “most devastating attack” in game

[viscid mica]

Ya that nerf was like a patch or 2 ago

[twilit seal]

Which it is, 1k is less than a hold lmb attack of trike

[viscid mica]

🤔

[twilit seal]

Yeah ik, i personally would prefer if fracture was nerfed but damage was buffed

[viscid mica]

Same

[dusky surge]

id prefer if fracture was nerfed and nothing else was buffed lmao

im really bored of rex gameplay being "crush"

[twilit seal]

Its the brawler apex carnivore, you expect it do deal paper cuts?

[dusky surge]

that's it that's the entire gameplay

i would hope that somewhere in its extensive kit it would do something besides one attack

[twilit seal]

Its a design flaw all other attacks are basically unusable because they dont have the utility crush gives

[viscid mica]

Agreed

[twilit seal]

3 sec 700 damage normal bite, unusable, 400 damage headbutt: why would you use it when crush does the same cc, does 1k damage and fractures

[viscid mica]

Ehhh alt rmb is kinda nutty

[twilit seal]

Rex only needs alt rmb and crush rn, if you removed lmb it would still be the same

[twilit seal]

Yeah, i was gonna say, rex literally has 2 useful attacks

[viscid mica]

That plus LMB has a wild delay to it

[twilit seal]

Rest is literally just cosmetic

[viscid mica]

Pretty much

[twilit seal]

Its ultimately a design flaw, cooldowns and damage values on other attacks need to change before rex becomes something other than crush spam

Until then, you cant blame the rex players for crush spamming

Cuz its literally the only useful attack lol

[viscid mica]

Left click has a weird delay so it’s underused

Alt LMB while fast is mid compared to alt rmb

RMB is good and all but just use the stronger version of alt RMB

[twilit seal]

Alt lmb has no real benefit over alt rmb either

[viscid mica]

And crouching rmb is only useful when your smaller and need the extra knock over capacity

[twilit seal]

Good luck hitting that mid combat lmao

[viscid mica]

Eh as a Rex that needs it to knock over elder or adult allo you’d be suprised what value it can have

Especially if your camping water edge

[sullen dragon]

Hypno did say this These changes should make them all feel fairer against one another, as opposed to the Tyrannosaurus breaking a Triceratops leg in 2 crushes and winning.

Right now Rex still breaks a trike leg in 2 crushes (adult trike) does that mean it’s gonna get changed or

Lastly, Don has been making balance changes to the majority of the roster, fine tuning the damage, knockdown thresholds, and fracture modifiers of the larger species. Stamina is also being adjusted for these characters and has been temporarily put on a level playing field in order to find some more appropriate values for them. These changes should make them all feel fairer against one another, as opposed to the Tyrannosaurus breaking a Triceratops leg in 2 crushes and winning

The full thing

[steep echo]

#balance-feedback message
New pouncer meta, pteranodon armour

[twilit seal]

Thats what confused me, cuz it wasnt fracturing trike in 2 crushes, now the damage got nerfed but fracture got buffed to actually fracture it in 2 crushes

[mellow badger]

someone wana join my gali nest in US3?

[sullen dragon]

That’s what I’m saying

[golden coral]

@viral heath Didn't they literally just change stego into being much more of a bleeder, and lowered the damage on all of its attacks (while still keeping the excessive stam costs). And stego seems to be somewhat lacking in stun capabilities (can't stun a rex, despite that being possibly more needed now with the bleed rework, in order to inflict bleed and gain distance), so what targets is it currently knocking too easily and with what attacks?

[dusky surge]

stego's powerswing also murders its stam, so i dont know how it isn't "strategic" enough already

[viral heath]

young rexes, Allos, Dibbles, young trikes, all get knocked and spammed which doesnt even let stego actually fit into its role as a bleeder and its just annoying when this bleeder just completely negates everything by doing something it isnt supposed to do in its niche

[viral heath]

tactile endurance

stegos also have a lot of time to regen stam mid fight

[dusky surge]

yea, it relies on an overpowered mutation to not suck, i fail to see your meaning

remove the mutation, lower the cost

[golden coral]

Diablo shouldn't be fighting a stego, allos, sure in packs. Young rexes should probably just fight young stegos, not sure how that matchup goes. But knockdown or knockback is kind of needed if you want bleed, since you need a way to inflict the bleed and then get out. And that should really only apply to similar sized critters, or even larger if it's meant to defend up, rather than down. Otherwise you'd need some other way for stego to "delay" the engagement to let bleed do its job

Since it's not really outrunning either of those smaller things, it can barely outrun rex apparently

[elfin night]

I love the maia buff

Finally capable of fighting ceras as a herbivore larger than dibble

[hasty coyote]

Maia already could maul ceras in the right hands, this thing is gonna be an absolute nightmare the moment people start learning it

[elfin night]

Tbf cera has ways to evade it

[hasty coyote]

With the new buffs, you get 3 mistakes as a cera. 100 shove + 500 stomp = 600, so 3 combos is 1800. And Maia still has a solid amount of stam, not too much, but enough to have time for it to land those 3 hits.

[elfin night]

Seems fine to me

It just never really felt right that cera or carno could take so much vs maia

[hasty coyote]

The fact Maia is 3.8 tons and running faster than an Omni is the reason it lacks damage

And now that weakness is gone

Only thing holding it back is its turn radius, and it ain’t even that bad because of quad drifting

[elfin night]

Hmmmm

Yeah…

[hasty coyote]

Like I can understand a slight damage buff

But this is practically 2x damage on all attacks

[elfin night]

Maybe harder cc instead of so much more damage would have been better

Just stunning a cera on shove was dumb

[hasty coyote]

I’d be fine if they buffed maia’s cc or buffed only it’s quad attacks

Those were a bit overboard but not that problematic

The shove and stomp buff is insane though

Like I don’t think even a Diablo could fight this

[dusky surge]

here's the issue with new maia

it has access to tactile

and that makes it godlike

[elfin night]

True

Also goated nickname

[dusky surge]

well i mean

based on the current state of diablo that's not really a huge revelation

[elfin night]

Diablo buff??

[dusky surge]

like diablo atm can only fight off things below its weight class then gets bodied the moment anything large rocks up

[steep gazelle]

That's without considering hits to the head

900 dmg If the shove and stomp hits the head. This is crazy

[dusky surge]

costs the same amount as a powerswing, minus the bleed

is it that crazy?

powerswing does more damage and tons of bleed on a bodyshot for the same amount of stam

and its only one move, not a combo

[steep gazelle]

Well, for something that can run 46km/h, that is

Not that I didn't like it...

[faint robin]

The thing is - its just the buff cuz rex doesnt care about normal bite
It rarely uses it. Fracture buff is just bs
And rex still does full fracture on trike's head for some reason🥀

[faint robin]

Seems like they know the crush issue, good to see

[sullen dragon]

Yeah fracture needs a nerf and Rex raw damage needs a buff tbh

Fracture is just uninteractive

[golden coral]

@rugged ember Honestly, I think your solution is to play allo instead, or maybe omni or dilo. Carno is the designated small game hunter, and if you find that to be boring and not to your taste, the best solution is probably to play something else.

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message Mfw the specialized small game hunter is specialized in hunting small game

[twilit seal]

Yeah like I do think rex growth and playstyle is(was before the stam buffs) well designed, but its kit is kind of cosmetic like i said earlier

People complain about crush spam but you cant blame the rex cuz its the best attack with the most utility

If they decide to nerf crush and keep the current damage numbers, I think trike damage should get nerfed too. All of this might make apex fights last longer

Because one mistake on each side and youre done

And I thought crush to the face didnt fracture, or at least wasnt doing it when it was properly starting sparring, but in those clips it did not

[faint robin]

I think base bite dmg should be what it was and crush fracture nerfed
+stam adjustments for sure

[twilit seal]

Oh and stego after the changes has like absolutely 0 chance of fighting now, I could beat prime rexes as prime stego if they messed up but rn it seems impossible

[twilit seal]

I do think the extra stam does feel nice for the gameplay, but it should be brought down to at least 1 min instead of 1 min 40 secs

I would change normal bite back to 850, lower bite cooldown to around carno or omni level (which isnt fast), and nerf fracture chance so with similar sized targets it can take 4-5 crushes, UNLESS there was a longer cooldown added to crush

But crush has its issues too, if you dont use it, and release left click, it still goes on cooldown, making it awkward, and the mouth open thing showing that its primed is only when standing still making it hard to tell for everyone. And crush still doesnt register sometimes if you use it too close

Rex still does feel pretty incomplete, still the movement after you hit a crush doesnt play proper animations for example

Like you can move during the self stagger animation

Right now rex is in a good spot but its a weird spot, the buffed fracture but lower damage is just less interactive compared to the opposite

Especially stego, after its fractured, literally loses 40% stam with a single power swing, then its a sitting duck

[frosty heron]

Honestly if they change the fracture and we keep that bitteforce , the crush should do 2k damage

Just if they decide to not nerf Trike damage

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message …

Why is stego getting a 100% size increase on its elder

And why stego in particular and not other playables that could get infinitely more value out of it like troodon or hypsi since beipi got it

[viscid mica]

Cera…..

Not to justify him just…. Cera….

[elfin night]

Cera isn’t as egregious ngl

But to be fair it is pretty fat

[viscid mica]

Too far

Teno buff when?

[elfin night]

Dibble buff appears more urgent

But I guess teno could do with something too

[viscid mica]

They both getting washed rn

[mellow badger]

is bepi breaching broken? it doesnt seem to give me the same speed as it does in evrima.

and can we crack coconuts as bepi since there on our diet? and if so... how?

[slim dragon]

Beipi only has 2 attacks
If neither of them work, you can't

[mellow badger]

why are they on our diet then XDDDDDD

[mellow badger]

Fair point 😆 🤣 😭

[elfin night]

WAIT WHY AM I BEING UPVOTED

You all lowkey agree with tiny tiers getting substantially more weight in proportion to their adult size?

[mellow badger]

hell yea

[elfin night]

Insane

[viscid mica]

Troodon is super awful rn I’ll take anything

[viscid mica]

I’ve resorted to dilo to get my venom fix DILO (I’m not sure if it’s venom is even working rn 😭)

[valid robin]

I really disagreed with u on the regular Maia damage buffs, IMO Maia was already basically an S tier playable as FG, hands down the best herbi, I mean NGL this video clip is from current Evrima branch and you can watch a maia with a teno basically rip through an entire server pop of ceratos some of whom (only 1 group) are actually extremely skilled players

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUtzJkFq2b4&list=PLk2qyB62Uwlc-6prt9byrHOAkQ3GxwdEZ

That being said I think tiny and small tiers have really been left behind, it would be nice to see them a bit more competitive; why ever play them when some of them take nearly an hour to grow when something like allo is only 2-3?

[maiden temple]

None of these cera groups looked 'extremely skilled' nor coordinated at all. They split focus, and mostly go at the maia one by one making it super easy to pick them off.

Also you simply can't judge a playable when most of your proof is a video of it packed with another, more agile, playable. The first fight maia had alone didn't go as smooth (and it was just 2!) even though the ceras made it convenient to hit by staying on the same side of it.

I'm not saying maia needed all the damage buffs, it has speed and cc. The big back kick def needed a boost imho, the rest was fine

[sullen dragon]

Maia beat all carnivores 1v1 pre buff except for deino on evrima

Now Maia is just broken

[maiden temple]

It's much bigger than all of them spare the deino xD

[sullen dragon]

It’s also much faster than all of them. It’s not fair

[maiden temple]

I don't think it should lose to something much smaller than itself 1v1

Nothing should tbh

[sullen dragon]

Well it shouldn’t be faster than them then

[maiden temple]

Having a strong cc attack deployable in the front was always stinky, but that's how they want it ig

[sullen dragon]

Being both stronger and faster just isn’t fair imo

[maiden temple]

I mean if it's slower than ceras it's cooked, especially with primes and stacked damage muts. Redistributing damage would be better

Putting its firepower in the back makes more sense, to me at least

Maybe it would be too much like teno, idk

[sullen dragon]

Honestly Maia is just in a weird spot

[maiden temple]

It's too chasedown oppressive when it's supposed to be prey

[sullen dragon]

Before the buff it was bad at fighting but good players could make it work - good players are rare btw so Maia still seemed so weak. And with the addition of allo and Rex allo decimated Maia in a 1v1 and same with sub Rex. Maia just wasn’t on the same level. But the fact that it wasn’t on the same level as them didn’t really matter because it could always run away, it’s faster than them both. Now Maia is both stronger than allo and sub Rex 1v1 and is also faster than them, I just don’t like the change because of that

[maiden temple]

I like it being fast, but again the frontal cc at that speed is stinkyyyy

[sullen dragon]

The cc needed to be better for sure. Not the damage tho

[maiden temple]

The buff was out of nowhere honestly, I thought it was mostly fine for the longest time

I didn't play it with allo and rex though so eh

[valid robin]

I wasn't saying that maia was unbalanced in that video, im just demonstrating that a 50% buff is ridiculous

like why are we buffing that with a 50% increase that's insane

[maiden temple]

Play it while it lasts

No way that's staying for long

Maybe it's a test to check how it fares against allo/smaller rex and then maybe await nerfs to speed/hp based on that. Who knows

Carnis will need to eat something, and if people only play trike and stego they might not even make it to the plate

HT is going crazy with all these changes, I'm not touching it until it settles

[sullen dragon]

Yeah lots of changes in the HT rn. Praying for the devs lol

They’re even going to change pin to some degree

That’s what dondi said the other day

Gonna be harder to execute

[valid robin]

ngl allo and rex were arleady bad

maia changes make it nearly unplayable

take your pick of most played dino on HT: Stego, Rex, Maia, Trike, and Allo, literally every one of them absolutely flattens cerato atm

people out here saying its op; op vs what omni who's like the weakest pred on the roster?

[maiden temple]

Yeah I need to believe these changes and tweaks are not nearly final to stay sane

It's still sad not seeing smaller tiers but I get the novelty and all

[frosty heron]

Omni recieved a nice pounce stamina buff and still feels... lacking , the bleed should be more dangerous imo , specially when youre Prime

[eager saddle]

It’s already really good especially with omni stam, it really doesn’t need another buff

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message Omni moment

Omni also does this!!!

[frosty heron]

Needs fixing , the only thing preventing Omni to being good is that you still die when pouncing the prey

Pounce the side , get bounced to ground and ggs

[eager saddle]

that's bug fixing, doesnt make it less strong

you dont buff something to compensate for the bugs, you just fix the bugs

[frosty heron]

I still think the bleed is a bit lacking , now its better to just spent stamina into damage

For a playable that is actually a bleeder

And yes definetly a bug fixing will making it stronger because you just dont straight die for using your main ability

Most Omnis players are well known for just skip using the pounce in many cases

[eager saddle]

that just heavily depends on the target you'rea ttacking though

if you try to bleed a cera, yeah sure its awful

but overall the bleed is perfectly fine

[faint robin]

Dibble ai should just go
20 rex megapack is unhealthy

[crimson crater]

still works as a bleeder. it takes a while for the applied bleed to fully set in, that’s the only drawback but that’s expected from the endurance hunter who takes things slowly

in terms of potency the bleed is around the dmg if not more

[elfin night]

Truthnuke

Apexes should be heard, but rexes are more abundant than any other carnivore

All running around in groups with canni skins cheesing the game

[faint robin]

I just got molested by at least 15 rexes

Holy sandbox that is

Dibble fed pasture raised no skill rex herds spamming crushes

[elfin night]

As I said elsewhere

HT currently just reminds me of progression all over again

With all of the apex swarms around, especially in hotspots

[quick socket]

Well Don himself told that letting out rex on officials is a mistake and he never wanted to do it(only for unofficials to manage it themselves) . Community asked for it though, so here we are. Removing diablo ai will make it more difficult to grow rex, but it will always be huge megapacks of it anyway. Unless there's hard cap for species. People will always find a way to grow them one way or another

[elfin night]

Hard caps are so cringe

[faint robin]

You can't sustain rex megapack w out dibble ai

[elfin night]

You could just remove Diablo ai, make canni mutation functional, and we would be fine

Healthy ht

[faint timber]

@grave wind My friend, I understand your pain very well, but even though the solution you suggest is good, I don't think it's enough.

Rex is much faster and has much better stamina, and we can't fight against them.

What the developers need to do is reduce Rex's bone-breaking damage and fix the grab attack. This is the most ridiculous attack in the game. Why can he grab you? You're the same height as him. Maybe he weighs more than you, but that's not a huge difference. Rex shouldn't be able to grab you.

[quick socket]

Of course you can. People self feed and feed their friends on alt accounts all the time. Not to mention the egg abuse. It's just instead of solo regular players it's gonna be done by friend groups or clans that dino games have plenty of

[elfin night]

Feeding apexes on alt accounts sounds like the single most energetically insufficient time waste someone could ever do

And self feed only really works in some cases like when you wanna kill your adult to have a good start with some other playable or as a cannibal

Or when you’re very small still

[quick socket]

Yet we have whole ass servers being controlled on legacy by clans, and those are moving over to evrima now

[grim moss]

I will self feed my stego some rexes 🐑

[elfin night]

What does that have to do with alt feeding being counterproductive?

You simply lose time

[grim moss]

Wastes server space

[elfin night]

It takes way too much effort to keep rexes fed through alt accounts

[quick socket]

We will never have a decent population of apexes. Rex is gonna be next deino/cera, being the largest % of the server pop

[elfin night]

False

Well no, most could be playing apexes, but they would be juvies dying all the time

[grim moss]

There r always low amounts of stegos in the unofficials i play nvm stego aint apex but its big

[elfin night]

Just rework canni mutation, remove dibble ai, and now rex is mega cooked

[quick socket]

Stego is a herbivore. Playerbase prefer carnivores and at any given time the ratio is 20/30% herbivore and the rest are carnis. So it's not really about stego

[grim moss]

stego cool tho 😎

[hasty coyote]

Yeah but that’s a problem that can’t easily be fixed, but is also not very consistently done. Curbing the Diablo ai pop and cannis would make at least half of the giant megapacks die off. And if clans start becoming an issue, then that will be a separate problem to solve.

[elfin night]

Half is an understatement

If you disallow them from cheesing the game in delta and getting nutrients from other things other than Rex (as well as probably retouching their hunger drain), you’re dooming all of them unless there is some special case

[quick socket]

I mean I agree with removing diablo ai, I just think yall underestimate sweaty gamers we have. The tendency shows it's not gonna be much better, but I'll gladly be proven wrong when we're at it

[grim moss]

Unofficials will have rex limit. Reason more to play in them!

[elfin night]

Doesn’t matter if they’re sweaty clan players if they cannot farm food

[hasty coyote]

Yeah people will find work arounds, but that doesn’t mean you can’t just later fix many of them.

[quick socket]

Yeah that's the plan for me at least. I enjoy having no cheaters ngl

[elfin night]

Literally me when I become the only one to unlock hyper colossus (because I’m just a good player) and I come across a clan mixpack

If you know you know

[grim moss]

I do too

[elfin night]

Either way I don’t care most people play Rex as long as they don’t do so in mega packs safely

Cera by design was/is super easy to grow in the live branch

[hasty coyote]

I’m honestly hoping Hypers are designed as mixpack/megapack deterrents by being able to track and run them down.

[elfin night]

Give them the ability to smell high pop concentration

To all of them

Or just the super hungry ones

So there’s no cringe mixpack of them teaming up

[quick socket]

That's true, I just mean that's its no longer biggest baddest land carnivore anymore and that's a big part of why people pick those

[elfin night]

I of course would be a honorable player

Slaying giants as a neuro troodon

[quick socket]

I'm probably gonna be 50 when hypos are out

[elfin night]

But through proper balancing there wouldn’t be much of an issue as there is with cera

There’s (adult) cera overpopulation because it’s easy and strong, naturally

Rex in HT is easy and strong too

Take one of them away, and the results will be completely different

[elfin night]

💔 don’t be so hopeless

[hasty coyote]

Then we have something to look forward to in the retirement home

[quick socket]

I saw someone saying devs wanted to spread diablo ai over the map instead of removing it? Is that correct

[quick socket]

Jokes on yall, I'll still be partying at 50

[hasty coyote]

According to latest devblog, apparently so

[elfin night]

Devblog says they don’t want to make them just free food and in large clusters, yes

Depending on how they execute it, maybe it could work

But getting 4 free dibbles as food is not okay

[crimson crater]

@vagrant plover some of the weights are excessive, i get hypsi since it’s small and any weight increase that’s proportional is just gonna be negligible, but for things within the 100kg range simply doubling their weight isn’t ideal

a playable dosen’t have to be heavy for it to be fun

[stark knoll]

@faint robin Do not give out other players' skins, names, or locations please

[faint robin]

It was like 8 hrs ago...

[stark knoll]

You have to understand how often people lie about that

[faint robin]

Alr alr I get your point

[steep gazelle]

The elder Prime of the small creatures is the only one that doesn't change anything except speed and a slight, almost nonexistent increase in damage, so I don't see why not do that.

While the larger creatures gained many kg and even nearly doubled their weight, the smaller ones also need gain as much weight to be fair

[hidden pilot]

whats everyones thoughts on allo? I've been waiting for a while for it and I'm a little disappointed especially compared to the murder machine that the rex currently is, my hunger even with a good diet drops rapidly, the allo is unbearably slow, damage wise its not bad health too ignoring earlier today when at full growth no damage taken a maybe 60% grown rex headbutt me or smth once and both my body and leg fractured immediately. regardless i have still enjoyed playing it one of my fav dinos so there is a bias, but AI is fast as balls and there's not enough and since the servers are primarily the rex rn eating players is essentially impossible especially since the rex can get on me like a dog in heat and i can not escape

[valid robin]

Allo is viable but the things that are stronger than it are so insanely strong that Allo looks bad even though it really isn’t

[hidden pilot]

I do agree, I’d like it to be a lil faster I mean the Speed on some rexs is insane I be running for my life and they can catch me even just the walk speed or smth being faster allo just feels so slow. But I will say the things that are strong in the game aren’t just strong they are literally like gods I mean I watched a deino get ran down by 5 rexs earlier where he has home advantage

[crimson crater]

a bit outdated but you get the general idea

[vagrant plover]

Yep. I made the list.

Like I said in the post, the growth is comparable in percentage terms. But in actual kilograms, the difference is huge.

And even if she weighed twice as much, a Herra could still take them down with a single jump, for example.

I also Made this

Tiny dinos need at least half an hour of playtime to catch up with the stats of larger, fresh juveniles.

Tiny dinosaurs should generally receive more advantages to compensate for the huge size difference.

[elfin night]

Hyper troodon should be the first strain to come

There

[crimson crater]

what is that arbitrary tier? i get making hypsi a little bigger but dryo being 70% of a fg omni is a joke lol

[crimson crater]

that’d require making its visual model size bigger to match that and adjusting all of its animation which is just a hassle overall

[elfin night]

Imagine a 70kg elder hypsi

[dusky surge]

so an omniraptor with venom

lol

[elfin night]

Absolutely

200kg hyper troodon

Super easy to maintain and wreaking havoc in sanctuaries

Or you know, being more serious, I don’t think tiny tiers should have a frail elder

Just let them keep the prime for as long as they like

And then give them proportionally more weight

[vagrant plover]

So what?

Omni has pin and pounc.
Dryo has dodge jump, and that's a limitit.

And Omni is still bigger and stronger.

Are you suggesting that Omni, who gets also gets bigger in his prime , can't take down Dryo?

[crimson crater]

i’m not, i’m saying it’d look ridiculous

it already has a 42% weight increase, that’s more than most

[vagrant plover]

Then you should also have something against Maja.

They have almost the same percentage weight.

But Maja has gained almost the entire weight of a Prime Carno.

That's 1600 kg more.
Dryo gets 55 kg.

The percentages translate less effectively for comparison the smaller the species gets.

[vagrant plover]

There are also giant rats that are half the size of house cats. It's unusual, but not unrealistic.

Or maybe a you Omni Main and just don't want the Omni to look smaller?

[crimson crater]

yeah that’s how math works, it’s proportional

[crimson crater]

i’m not an omni main, i just think upscaling it is very unnecessary

dryo isn’t in a balancing position where it desperately needs that

i think you’re conflating strength and survival

[crimson crater]

ok if we go by this logic then every small tiers weight is gonna have to be changed, why stop at dryo? you could even argue for mid tiers “oh no an allo dosen’t gain as much weight as an elder deino”

[vagrant plover]

It's not directly about strength; it's about the idea that tiny species should have better advantages to compensate for the larger ones.

How often do you see tiny ones compared to medium and large ones?

[crimson crater]

should herrera be 350kgs because it merely gains 55 from the elder system?

it’s slightly larger than dryo but same logic should hold no

[vagrant plover]

I don't see Herra as tiny.

And he kann still kill all tiny even If ther 2x bigger

[crimson crater]

so? we’re talking about size, and it fits your criteria

[native urchin]

the only ridiculous things about elders weight is my poor teno 🥲

[slim dragon]

Tiny tiers will remain tiny tiers, even if you double or triple their weight
They're small in the first place, so size or weight is definitely not something they need, especially not more than other creatures

[crimson crater]

yeah it was left behind

[slim dragon]

What does it matter to a hypsi if it goes from 20 to 200 kg upon reaching elder ?
200kg is still tiny for this game

[native urchin]

it would look silly ngl XD prime hypsy new king of sanct

[slim dragon]

Exactly
It would look silly and also serve no purpose

[native urchin]

i would punch my monitor if i die to a hypsy

hypsy pin

[crimson crater]

people don’t seem to like the idea that tiny tiers consistently remain tiny

[vagrant plover]

It doesn't hurt them either.

They need other solutions to their problems, but I doubt they'll come quickly.

Making Prime bigger is just a small, quick fix.

They already have too few players and problems getting Prime. It should at least be well rewarded.

[slim dragon]

What is it fixing ?
What's so different between getting your 120kg dryo getitng pinned and killed by an omni, or getting your 240kg dryo dying the exact same way ?

[elfin night]

They don’t get pinned by 150kg omnis ig

[vagrant plover]

that they are not also pinned by juvis

[slim dragon]

It's all ?

[elfin night]

Insane buff

I will say, however, that 200kg beipi is the light and the truth

[native urchin]

we should waste less times on smaller playables lowkey, and focus on actual dinosaurs that are not there just to watch and die

[golden coral]

You're larger, thus easier to see and hit I guess

And you'll get grappled by the juvies instead, if that's more fun

[elfin night]

Buff dryo

[slim dragon]

I mean
Unless speed is scaled
So we'll get like a 80 km/h dryo

[slim dragon]

L take

[elfin night]

Like when someone said once according to a crusty dinosaur website that hypsi could run at 70kph

[crimson crater]

give dryo burrowing, dryo issues fixed

[golden coral]

Dryo burrowing is just meh, honestly

[elfin night]

Burrowing better be good then

[crimson crater]

how good?

[elfin night]

Until you realize that you can make this (I wish lol)

[native urchin]

u can give these dino whatever mechanic.... they will always be a niche pick.

only chance for them is realism server, where they have different interactions aside from doing nothing till something kills u

[elfin night]

About ory level

[elfin night]

BRO

That mentality is precisely what holds tiny tiers back

[golden coral]

Eh, I don't think burrowing fits dryo, it does not appeal to me all that much

[elfin night]

They’re not meant to be fodder

[native urchin]

its not a mentality XD its a fact! all the pt changes are pretty cool, i tried them!

yet on a full server i see 2 or 3 of them, and 50 rexes, 40 allos and 20 trikes

[golden coral]

They will be, but so will others, no matter the size, I imagine sauropods might also be rather niche, despite being big and strong

[slim dragon]

If they're finished and fun they'll be played
Hypsi got a huge jump in popularity when it got climbing

[elfin night]

How does that tie into tiny tiers being fodder to watch and die?

Them needing balancing and still being in the works does not equate they’re hopeless

[native urchin]

yea, the first 3 hours, then back to being forgotten

[slim dragon]

Troodon is very powerful
Ptera always has been, and still is pretty popular

[elfin night]

^^^^^^^

Dryo, hypsi and pt aren’t played because they’re barebones rn

[crimson crater]

ptera and hypsi are fine

[elfin night]

And then troodon is a very popular carnivore even though the juvenile speed nerf really hurt it

[crimson crater]

so is dryo, just to a lesser extent

[native urchin]

troodon punchees above its weight, has pvp involved!

dryo and hypsy are spectators dinos

[elfin night]

They’re viable, just not interesting now

[native urchin]

burrow and better climbing wont change the fact that they will be a niche pick

[elfin night]

Dryo is incomplete and so is hypsi really, although much less now that it can climb. Sanctuary hypsis have a pretty fun life

[slim dragon]

Everything has pvp involved to an extent

[elfin night]

I still remember when I got a ptera killed by an hypsi swarm in a sanctuary

[slim dragon]

Saying that after hypsi got barebones climbing and got 10x more players because of it is crazy

[native urchin]

even people who want to chill will probbaly choose sauropods, so they can sit and chill, if someone bothers them they unleash great strenght and go back sitting (bsaically stego and trike gameplay for the past years)

[native urchin]

0x10 still 0

[slim dragon]

What about people who want to be small and nimble ?

[native urchin]

niche

[slim dragon]

You're denying facts bro

[native urchin]

only hypsy i met i got one shotted by

[slim dragon]

So are people who want to chill and do nothing
So are people who only care about being strong and doing PvP
So are people who want to explore the map

You need to understand different playables cater to different types of players

[native urchin]

yes, im just saying, htey will never be popular or fill up a server

[elfin night]

Actually sauropods are super unpopular. They’re by far the hardest thing to implement in a game like this

Just look at how legacy went both in progression and survival. People would rather play dryo or galli any day over pue and cama

[native urchin]

the more dinos they introduce, the less they will play thos

[elfin night]

If they remain barebones, yes

[slim dragon]

Yes with more dinos each individual option gets less players in proportion
This doesn't mean they should be ignored

"Rex does not matter because once giga and spino are out less players will play it"

[elfin night]

Do you not see how it’s a perfect circle?

People don’t play the tiny ones because they receive no special attention for balancing and new mechanics. Since they get no attention, no one plays them and instead go for the other playables.

You have to break the cycle

[golden coral]

Its also just a roster size vs server size thing, even if everything was popular, you're still going to have issues with numbers at some point

[twilit seal]

People dont want to play tiny ones because no matter what you add to them, the amount of playables they interact with will be always lower, there is also no survival aspect you get from growing larger thinngs because tiny things simply grow too fast, and they cant pvp

[elfin night]

Add rotations or quests/incentives to play other characters!!!!

[elfin night]

Interactions aren’t limited to brawling

[twilit seal]

Players want player interactions, being cute and running around isn’t enough for most people

Lets say you add burrowing to dryo, or like climbing added to hypsi, it wont change anything, unless they have other tiny tier carnis to hunt them etc, which carni players will also avoid unless they can punch above their weight class like troodon

[elfin night]

That’s why they get other mechanics

Plus they don’t have to cater to every player

It’s fine for them to be niche as long as they are viable and have anything going for them

[twilit seal]

Yeah hence why they are a niche, they will never populate the servers, so 1-2 tiny tiers are enough, no need to waste server slots with 5 more tiny tiers that essentially do the same thing

[elfin night]

Except that…they don’t?

[twilit seal]

Also, like i said, they grow too fast and having their lifecycles complete do not give the same satisfaction you get from others when you grow in a survival game

[elfin night]

Give them a post game quest

[twilit seal]

Tell me how dryo is different than hypsi in what it can do with other players, even when dryo gets burrowing?

Same aimless running around, nest all you want, be cute all you want, gameplay is the same

[golden coral]

So then increase growth times, if that's an issue?

[twilit seal]

Then people will complain why it takes so long to grow a useless dino for example, you get my point?

[elfin night]

Hypsi can actually mess around in sanctuaries for all of its lifetime, mess around in the heights with herra or ptera, troll with the spit…

Dunno how dryo will do with burrows though. It killing all fresh spawns is hilarious regardless

[twilit seal]

Tiny tiers will always be niche

[golden coral]

So the issue is what, that they can't get into fights, or aren't hunted? Wouldn't the latter be solved by more similar sized or slightly larger carnis that would consider them a good meal

[elfin night]

So will pretty much every playable ngl

Other than like cera ig

[golden coral]

Not really, because I'm not sure I see how it's "useless"

[twilit seal]

I answered the carni thing above

[golden coral]

Ah, right, that people don't play carni unless it can punch up?

[twilit seal]

Carni players dont want to play small carnis to hunt babies or tiny stuff, people like the sense of accomplishment, like with troodon hunting big targets

[golden coral]

That's a player mentality issue though

And should be approached from that

[twilit seal]

Yeah exactly, cuz people that want pvp want some sort of accomplishment, nobody is in awe after 1v1ing a fresh spawn as a troodon etc

[twilit seal]

Every player that wants pvp thinks like this, you can ask anyone

[golden coral]

Solution to that isn't to remove or otherwise neglect tiny tiers, solution is to teach players, the hard way, that this is not a PvP game

[twilit seal]

Why play carni then if youre just gonna hunt ai

[golden coral]

Because you want to be that playable and have the mechanics it has to use

[elfin night]

Skill issue

[twilit seal]

Multiplayer survival game is always going to be a pvp game

Unless you make a realism server and give these animals some imaginary things to do

[golden coral]

I pretty much only hunted small things + large juvies (apex juvies and such) with my carno in legacy, cause it was well, a small game hunter

The food is the reward, the "achievement" is that you get to live longer

[elfin night]

Beipi is the funniest thing ever

It is the largest tiny tier that can enter sanctuaries, can bleed out adult omnis EASILY, is super fast, heals at the speed of light…

I love beipi. Buff it please

[golden coral]

Having PvP and being a PvP oriented game is not the same thing

[twilit seal]

Thats boring to 90% of the time, imagine you could instead say you hunted a maia as a solo carno instead, youll be proud of yourself more too

[golden coral]

You can have engaging combat, while making it undesireable to engage in combat in the first place, for example

[golden coral]

I've solo hunted paras as carno, didn't make me feel any more proud honestly

Cause the idea that "I'm going to show off my skill" didn't enter my mind

[native urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-liar-star-wars-lying-gif-8634649

[twilit seal]

Survival is easy if you JUST want to survive, but it gets repetitive and boring eventually. The real engagement is having these different kinds of encounters

[golden coral]

Right, but that is the mentality issue

Most people don't want a survival game, they want a game with survival mechanic added onto it

[native urchin]

yea, but its human nature! we still do wars over religions

[golden coral]

You could remove the survival part and still have a perfectly fun game

[elfin night]

Tail riding is the epitome of skill

[twilit seal]

Like look at apex herbis rn before rex and allo, they were chasing baby carnis just to get some attention. They literally can survive forever just munching grass if they want. People grow big herbis to fight carnivores, have the sense of adrenalinr from being hunted

[golden coral]

Why does everyone ignore alt turn?

[twilit seal]

Cuz alt turn was disabled on legacy on most servers or not allowed

And why are we even talking about legacy lol

[golden coral]

Not at all, I would hunt subs rather than adult trikes on my rex (and get yelled at by my then ingame partner for not going for a proper fight xD)

[elfin night]

Because it’s cooler to turn like a truck

[golden coral]

Except officials literally had it, and if you're not playing official/with the mechanics given by the devs, then it does not really matter, I believe unofficials are still considered irrelevant for feedback

[native urchin]

ahaha i am just being silly! i liked that gif there!

[golden coral]

Just an example of the whole what you hunt, and how it might make you feel

[golden coral]

All good :D

I just used my time as carno in legacy as said example for what to hunt, and why I don't really see the issue with PvP challenges in the same way

[twilit seal]

Yeah, i get what you mean, but like I said most people want the thrill of the hunt, a difficult hunt even more so, evrima battles feel so much more satisfying when you bring a large target down because most stuff is like a boss fight with timing the attacks and dodging

Youre a niche player

[native urchin]

without rules game is pure chaos and clans sizing up for who has it bigger.... only thing that can save this game is unofficial server

[golden coral]

I've no doubt, but I would approach that issue by making the game more hardcore and well, undesierable to get into a fight in the first place (while still making fighting itself fun and engaging, unlike certain current mechanics)

[golden coral]

Not true, also I could have sworn we had rules on officials at times

[twilit seal]

Then you will have people just outright stop playing the game if combat is unappealing, its still a game

[twilit seal]

No rules never, I had the game since 2017 lol

[native urchin]

no official server i ever played on PoT or isle has made me felt immersive gameplay

[golden coral]

Combat itself can be appealing, getting into combat should not be so however

[golden coral]

I've had it since before legacy even were a thing, pretty sure we had rules at times, unless I've dreamt up both that and the admins

[elfin night]

I got it since 2016

My opinion is better

[golden coral]

Okay, that's more fair, immersion can be quite lacking

[twilit seal]

Then you have people playing only the biggest stuff cuz they are too risky to fight, then the same cycle continues with people getting bored. Pvp is part of the game

[golden coral]

Wouldn't it be even more risky for the large things?

[twilit seal]

Not even when we had the progression mode there were rules, on officials there were always clans

[twilit seal]

Why would it be? Its easy to grow an apex herbi and when youre adult/elder you would be unkillable

Like how stego and trike is on live right now

Plus again, people like the sense of danger, there is no reward without risk

[golden coral]

I'm going to have to look into this, cause I recall things vastly differently apparently

[golden coral]

Yes but larger things would lose more in time and everything else if they get into a fight, than smaller things?

[native urchin]

btu combat is more dangerous for the weaker individual, compared to the strongest, so you have more of a survivabilty if u are the big bad boy of the island

[twilit seal]

Its already like that, you said you want to make fights riskier no? It depends on what you want to do

[golden coral]

Depends on what you're fighting I'd say

[golden coral]

Oh I've got some ideas on how to make it less desireable to get into a fight, but I doubt most would like that, since I seem to be the niche player wanting an actual survival game over a fighting game. It's not neccesarily making the fight itself riskier, but more so that using stamina, taking wounds, and such should have perhaps longer lasting consequences, or otherwise have consequences that might make you ask yourself "Do I really need this other thing dead" and "Should I break off, this target seems to be able to put up too much of a fight, can I retreat and find easier targets" and so on.

[twilit seal]

Like from what I understand, you essentially want to make carnivores, even apex carnivores go mostly for smaller animals or babies, and you want herbi apexes to be practically immune. Then you will have carni players unsatisfied because they dont get any challenging hunts, and herbis getting bored because they are unkillable

[golden coral]

Well, I want the carnis to go for the young, old, weak, and so on, like they tend to do, cause the less risky a fight, the better. Your goal isn't to have glorious combat and a trophy, but to get food

Or maybe avoid becoming food at times

[golden coral]

Though I'm not sure why herbis would be immune, they should be at risk too, food competition, and being hunted, and of course being in situations where they end up that wounded and thus better to go for target

[eager saddle]

That only works when the elder system actively hurts you for not reaching prime, which is also a bad mechanic

[golden coral]

But the whole wanting a challenging hunt is kind of what I want to get away from, cause it's meant to be survival, not PvP, and challenge tend to mean risk

[eager saddle]

Also that is unsustainable

[golden coral]

The elder system has its issues, I wouldn't do it like it is currently done, to be sure

[native urchin]

u (and I) simply need a realsim server! if someone ever make one!

also, elder system right now breaks pvp mentality, and people complain a lot. being old and weak makes u vulnerable, and people dont like that, even though, from a survival aspect is normal

[golden coral]

I do miss the old, good realism servers, yes, and I'd be fine with an unofficial one, especially if we get mods/settings and can adjust things and stats and all

And yes, people complain, no surprise there

But the better solution to the lack of tiny tiers or such, is to make them more desireable, by making their lives comparatively easier than the larger things, which can be done in multiple ways

[twilit seal]

I understand your perspective, I played a lot of realism myself on PoT despite being a “pvp player”. I enjoy the survival feeling, but I just think what we have for the base game rn is a pretty middle ground for both kinds of players, you just need a realism server like shady said

[golden coral]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm arguing for this as an alternative solution, in part, to the lack of tiny tiers, where I think making survival more hardcore would make them more appreciated, since they'd have easier lives compared to the larger things

Though depending on what the devs settle on, it might to more "my" way than the PvP, pretty sure the devs do want to get away from that mentality, or used to at least. And with AI dinos, there's the whole "rare player encounter" thing too.

[frosty heron]

Youre playing the game as it is a Paleoaccurate realistic game , its ok if you like it but thats not my mental to give an example, I prefer the PvP on all the meaning , since people is encouraging player interaction more and more is what im looking for most of the time

The game has to be played like a PvP game since the AI while it exist , it doesnt compliment the challenge everyone is looking , AI doesnt even fight yet

[golden coral]

No, I play it as a survival game, it's not realism per say, much less paleoaccurate. Sure, you prefer PvP, that's fine, just like I prefer survival. But looking for a challenge isn't the right mentality for a survival game, and so I'd like to see that changed, especially to encourage less combat oriented playables to be picked more often

[frosty heron]

Everytime I play "Survival" which in fact I have to do , is only to grow my playables so I dont take unneccesary risks , but after that yes I gotta look for PvP , honestly ive been not surviving 12 hours to get a Rex and use it to hunt juvies , thats just boring as youre just playing the game on advantageus position all the time , thats no fun... , I even do that with the herbies , when im adult im wishing to some pack to begin a hunt.

And to be honest is what the community has been asking for , player interaction , remove AI , and such

[golden coral]

Sure it's fun, you're successfully surviving, that's the fun. I see no fun in taking a risk for, what exactly? Does it matter in any way how "good" you are in random dino game? xD I want survival to be present all times, from spawn to entomb, and I dont think thats strange honestly. And well, most don't like dino Ai cause free food, and tricks you into thinking it's someone you can talk to when it's not, at least not yet xD

[twilit seal]

It feels good to be good in any multiplayer game, doesnt matter what type, its satisfying to beat others, competitive vs casual mindset. I personally cant enjoy the game if Im not good at it

Where is the challenge in surviving by not taking risks, its the adrenaline feeling that makes it fun

Have you ever had the experience of hunting a tough prey as smaller carnivores? It feels amazing when you succeed

[golden coral]

I have, but I don't really feel that at all. Sure it's nice to be good and win, but that's the thing. You win in a survival game by staying alive. If this were a arena style deathmatch fps, then win means something else obviously.

So the risk in a survival game is bad play, since you win by not dying, that's all there is to that.

I don't "win" more in the game because I killed something after a long, hard and dangerous fight, as opposed to finding something already dead from fall damage. So I don't really see the "competitive" aspect when there's not a win condition there like in a different kind of game

[twilit seal]

Winning the fight is also not dying, and getting food

[golden coral]

Winning = staying alive

If I can scavenge over a dangerous fight, it's win just as much

[twilit seal]

Yeah, winning the fight = surviving

[golden coral]

But much safer, and thus the rational choice when your win condition is to stay alive

Yes, but why get into a fight, or a more dangerous, risky fight, if not needed

[twilit seal]

Not as rewarding, takes longer to grow etc. high risk high reward comes into play

Ultimately, for fun

Its a game, I enjoy killing others in a game

[golden coral]

Which is fine, but I'd consider that a different genre I guess

It's just strange that you'd play a survival game, but not actually find surviving fun

[twilit seal]

I do find surviving fun, i find not fighting boring

It seems like a waste of time to me, but to each to their own

If i wanted to survive with 0 player interactions, I could play any herbi and just stay at some remote area

Where is the fun in that?

[golden coral]

But you could have a survival game without any fighting, so I don't know, it seems more like you would be happy with a fighting game, with or without survival thrown into it

[twilit seal]

Im literally a plant then, or an ai

[twilit seal]

No because I love the danger, I love the growing part and most importantly, i love wasting hours of others or die trying

[golden coral]

I find it surprisingly fun to just roam as stego and well, be on my way and live. I don't actually want things to attack me, cause that's a risk. I'd rather just nest and roam and that's about it. I would expect fights, but if I could convince the dangerous thing to change it's mind and leave me be without even having to hit them once, all the better

[twilit seal]

In a multiplayer setting its hard to please everyone tho, but I think the isle gives enough freedom for both playstyles

[golden coral]

Right, you love danger, in a genre where avoiding dangers as much as possible should be the play, I don't think you like survival at all at this point

If they removed any food/water drain and such, maybe even growth, you'd have just as much fun it would seem

[twilit seal]

No, then there is no penalty to dying or killing

It would be sandbox

[golden coral]

So?

You wanted a fight

[twilit seal]

The joy comes out of the risk of losing hours

Fighting for your survival

Just pvp isnt the same, there is no risk

[golden coral]

But you're not, you're fighting for the sake of fighting

So why would risk matter then, it makes no sense

You still died, you still lost or won the fight, growth or no growth

[twilit seal]

No, why would I care if i win or not then

[golden coral]

Cause you still win or lose

[twilit seal]

The part that makes winning fun is that I make another player lose their hours, because they are unfit to survive

[golden coral]

A win is a win, sandbox or otherwise, you still fought, and outfought your opponent

I fail to see the difference between doing that in sandbox vs survival

[twilit seal]

Think of competitive games, with ranking system, why would I play normal games instead of ranked

[golden coral]

They would still be "unfit" due to the loss of the fight

Cause win is win, no matter if you get ranked for it or not

[twilit seal]

I just dont see any achievement in simply afk surviving thats the point

You just have a non competitive mindset

[golden coral]

But you don't see any achievement unless you and the other guy invested, and can "waste" hours, yours or the other guys

[twilit seal]

If you just wanna survive without any challenge, then you could play on an empty server or single player

Where is the satisfaction in that

[golden coral]

I do want the challenges, but also want the challenge in question to be undesireable, so I actually think about if I need to commit or not

Like, ideally, you should never be in a spot where you're "safe", but your goal should be to get to that point, as much and as often as you can

[twilit seal]

Thats the growth part, you dont take undesirable hunts as a youngling

[golden coral]

You should never do that, no matter your growth stage

Cause it's always survival, no matter the growth stage

[twilit seal]

Why would I not? As a carni I have to hunt to eat

[golden coral]

Otherwise we have the whole "game only starts when you're adult"

[twilit seal]

I prefer no AI, ai removes any challenge

You see all of these beginner rexes make it to adult or prime thanks to ai

Who would normally be naturally selected in a survival setting

[golden coral]

I suppose, or more so, I care about my own success, not measured against anyone else cause well, they don't matter I guess

[golden coral]

Well, to be fair, the AI is rather plantlike at the moment xD

[twilit seal]

Okay my point is then why not play on an empty server so you “survive” forever

[golden coral]

But you're not talking about being unfit, you're talking about deliberately putting yourself in danger cause of "mindset"

[golden coral]

Because the argument isn't to not have dangers, but to do your best to minimize them, rather than maximize them as you seem to want

You talk about feeling good about taking down a dangerous target, that's maximizing your risk. I talk about feeling good about the result, food, scavenging or taking down a dangerous prey because of not better option, that's attempting to minimize risk,

It's not a matter of not having dangers, it's a matter of seeing them as undesireable, and thus trying to avoid them and make the least dangerous choice, as opposed to seeing the dangers as desierable and deliberately going for them

[twilit seal]

Pvp is part of survival tho, i have to put myself in danger to hunt for food or compete for resources

[golden coral]

And I've never been against that, have I? But that's not what you've argued, you've argued you want the risk of wasting hours, the risk of dying, rather than avoiding that risk to the best of your ability. You don't need to hunt if there is a carcass, but you sound like you'd still go fight the trike with your rex, rather than scavenge. Again, the point isn't to lack dangers, but to avoid them wherever possible. Instead of actively wanting them because you're looking for a fight and trying to test yourself.

[twilit seal]

Ofc I would hunt rather than scavange (why would there be dead bodies if nobody is fighting anyway, or it would simply not supply my rex), its more rewarding, organs, fresh food, more food even

[golden coral]

And if the trike body is fresh, just killed a few minutes ago by another trike that is now sufficiently far away that you can eat in peace?

Or if you had a pick between a trike, and a diablo, with the diablo providing you all the food and nutrients you need as well, but is a much easier and safer kill

[twilit seal]

If i need food, im not gonna skip the food

[golden coral]

Cause I find it hard to believe you'd go "well, I'd rather not risk my life right now when I don't need it"

[twilit seal]

Depends on the growth point im in, if im same size as trike, id rather fight the trike then risk diablo getting away

Because im confident in my ability and experience, its not that risky to me even if its risky for you for example

Im not the person to take risky fights either, im not gonna die for no reason trying an impossible fight

I would let a camping trike go for example

[golden coral]

Ability and experience does not change the risk in the sense of what the trike can do compared to the diablo, or for any other situation

[twilit seal]

This risk is just different to individual player

[golden coral]

You might be able to handle it, or mitigate it, but it's still the same danger

[twilit seal]

Is it risky if i know i can kill the trike without getting hit? I first would test the trikes skill

[golden coral]

Fair enough then, but it didn't sound like that earlier xD

[golden coral]

Maybe risk is the wrong word, danger then?

Even if you can pull off a clean kill, the potential for what happens if it goes wrong is still a bit worse than for the other thing you could go for

[twilit seal]

Yeah but I know my limit, like as a young rex I wouldnt try a trike that can knock me down, because I would get one shot. If im big, even if i make a mistake, I wont fight to death, ill retreat

Im not trying to be seen as a mindless pvper, ofc I pick my fights

Im just saying I would still limit test before I give up

[golden coral]

I don't see anything wrong in testing a potential target at all, as a matter of fact, I'd like it if there were more situations where there's a "break point" to where a hunt might not be worth continuing, though Isle players do tend to struggle with the idea of a failed hunt and backing down

And so we end up with funny situations like hiding behind terrain and just not getting very far for either side

[frosty heron]

Real , im playing Troodon rn and we made a big Sub Rex panic so hard he hardlogged

[golden coral]

@haughty grotto They'll probably get to it, I suspect this is a work in progress

[haughty grotto]

Yes I suspect that too

[faint robin]

With allo's bleed, i don't mind it not being a speed demon too
Dibble is the one struggling rn

[frosty heron]

@west plank Youre asking to have a damage + bleed Stego , you can have one , not both

[golden coral]

@frosty heronAgreed on stam costs needing to be lower, as for rex, just let stego stun rex with the running swing, that should help it get the hit in and then retreat safely, making use of the high bleed to prevent a chase. Oh and give stego a stability multiplier when the tail raised so it can't be knocked down unless it's caught unaware and unprepared.

[faint robin]

Rex should get its dmg buffed slightlt but get its stam and fracture nerfed

[sullen dragon]

Stego should not have a 15% damage reduction on body hits wym @west plank that’s broken af

That means entombed stego will have 40% damage reduction overall on body hits. Just think about it

[lunar fox]

do i have to respawn and grow again if im stuck in a small ditch i phycally cant get out off? new to this discord

[sullen dragon]

Since congenital is a THING

[stark knoll]

Try using /unstuck

[lunar fox]

thank you ill try that now

[sullen dragon]

Should still bone break a trike in 3-4 crushes tho

[faint robin]

Trike should get reduced fracture dmg to it's head

[west plank]

Then go and hit him in the head, he takes 200% damage.

[golden coral]

I don't think they meant for that to stack, but it makes no sense anyway, better use of the plates would be to not have pounce slots on top of them, and maybe make it harder to pin (like needing higher requirements to overpower when you're biting around those plates)

[sullen dragon]

Too bad you can never get to the head of a good stego. They turn on a dime and can keep their tail facing ur face

[faint robin]

And I'll say 4 crushes minimum. Rex is no skill playable breaking its peers in 1-2 crushes rn

[sullen dragon]

Yeah

[frosty heron]

That can also could work but probably people wont retreat and will keep trying to kill instead of using the bleed advantage, there should be a clear form to make it viable being a bleeder

[sullen dragon]

Well it will stack lol

[frosty heron]

And thats why I asked for Trombo to be removed

[west plank]

Then take a rex and break its leg, otherwise this becomes a skill issue.

[faint robin]

But buff its bite and maybe crush dmg
Bite to 800-850
Crush to 1500 max

[sullen dragon]

? Even with a broken leg he still turns on a dime

[golden coral]

Not if its some kind of built in resistance I don't think, like bleed resist or fracture resist

[sullen dragon]

Rex never is able to get to a stegos head lmao

If anything the tail is always facing Rex head

[golden coral]

Depens on how long the stun is/immunity is, and if the rex can at that point just take the stego, on if it hasn't made distance. Generally bleed only really does work if you can well, give the target time to bleed. So stego at that point need a way to "delay" the matchup, and to do so reliably

[timid void]

youve stated this already

[sullen dragon]

Yeah and apparently he doesn’t seem to comprehend it

[slim dragon]

An innate damage resistance for stego just kinda has no reason to exist

[frosty heron]

Thats why I also suggested to be faster

[timid void]

idk they seemed to comprehend it and label it as a skill issue

[golden coral]

I'd rather maybe introduce internal bleed, like fracture severity, where stego would give some kind of "status effect" due to impalement that thrombosis won't protect you from perhaps

[sullen dragon]

Clearly not a skill issue. Have you ever played stego?

[frosty heron]

Like 32 km/h , faster than FG Rex sprint for a margin

[golden coral]

I believe there's this thing called ambush xD

[timid void]

oh i wasnt saying this was my opinion. just helping to clarify what i understood

[sullen dragon]

Even if you ambush a stego body he always has his tail facing ur head. It doesn’t take more than one second to position urself. Holy

[golden coral]

Then you didnt ambush...

[frosty heron]

Pulling an ambush on a Stego head is pretty hard

[golden coral]

Like, the point of an ambush is to well, jump them before they can react

[frosty heron]

Most unlikely to happen on the distance where it cannot react and turn away , it will spot you first

[golden coral]

Maybe so, but I sincerely doubt its not doable

[sullen dragon]

I have ambushed plenty of stegos, they always have their tail in my face one second after positioning…. It doesn’t take more than a single second for them to do that

[frosty heron]

Its like a 5% of chance , pulling that off , waiting for them to come to your bush , and considering they dont hear you running into them , unlikely

[sullen dragon]

If you don’t see what the problem is for a stego to take 40% less damage on body hits, well I’m concerned lmao

[golden coral]

Depends on if you know where to hide and hunt I'd say, 5% seems incredibly low for what is pretty much normal hunting from what I can tell

[golden coral]

I don't know why you think built in resistances stacks, do fracture and bleed resist do that? Anyway, I did at no point defend that idea, so its not relevant

[sullen dragon]

It’s not. It’s rare especially when their head has to be facing your position + they have to be zip lining towards ur position and no less than 10 meters away. It’s near impossible to happen if u think about it. Don’t forget crush doesn’t even have locational damage

Crush used on the head doesn’t even deal more damage

[timid void]

why not hunt things besids stego if they are so very op then?

[sullen dragon]

Stego should be able to run away, but he absolutely should be prey for a Rex if Rex ambushes

[golden coral]

Crush and similar abilities not having locational is an "issue" all of its own, but I was more so thinking you could start off with a headbutt and knock the stego down if that's doable, that way it won't matter if they've turned a little bit

[sullen dragon]

And you can do that by nerfing Rex stam to how it was before the buff

[timid void]

well according to erik he has successfuly hunted a stego

[sullen dragon]

Prime stego doesn’t get knocked down, ever

[golden coral]

Maybe it should, to be honest, at least if its not prepared

[timid void]

or am i misunderstandign the debate here?

[golden coral]

I do like the idea that stego is vunerable to knockdown, unless tail is raised, plus making that a bit slower and perhaps adding a cost there rather than on the attack

[sullen dragon]

Yeah right now it’s easy to hunt a stego. U can just chase them down

I want Rex to never be able to chase down a stego or trot it down. If a Rex wants to hunt a stego he needs to ambush. If you fail to ambush that should be a missed meal. That’s how it should be

[frosty heron]

Maybe a good idea is to make Stego drain stamina while RUNS with tail raised , and not when its only trotting

[golden coral]

How long is the murder sprint duration?

[sullen dragon]

10 secs

[frosty heron]

Encourages to make the playable defensive, but I wouldnt do those changes without buffing it first

[golden coral]

That's a bit more than an ambush mechanic then :D

[frosty heron]

Should be 10 seconds , pulls a good distance , it could work fine with 5 seconds but not completely remove it

[golden coral]

I'd agree, but they do seem to want that running swing to be rather offensive and the main use vs large things

Which is really weird, but Evrima stego design is weird so

[golden coral]

Honestly I would remove it, but I'd probably also adjust a few other things, like where herbis go, and the potential ambush spots and so on

[frosty heron]

You should check what MrGray was pulling with the old Stego and the running swing

[golden coral]

But 5 seconds would be fine, if you've not reached the target by then, you weren't close enough for an ambush

[sullen dragon]

Stego just needs a way to reliably run away from a Rex to be honest. If that ever happens then he would be in a good spot. He doesn’t need to be fighting Rexes

[frosty heron]

https://youtu.be/cpKf6KOViUI?si=geyOuIdE4MPHYUsm

[sullen dragon]

After all it’s a 6 hour grow vs a 12 hour grow

[golden coral]

Though then you kind of just have a large kentro, but less interesting xD

[frosty heron]

Those run swings into power combo are just insane

(Old Stego btw)

[golden coral]

So increase the growth a bit then, could do 8-10 hours or so

[sullen dragon]

No it’s still interesting. You’ll still fight anything smaller than a Rex or trike reliably.

[sullen dragon]

Why do people want stego to reliably fight off Rexes, I don’t get it tbh

[timid void]

i mean the easiest way to run away is to break your pursuants kneecaps, isnt it?

[sullen dragon]

I don’t and never will expect a playable that’s not even an apex to fight off the strongest carnivore apex

[frosty heron]

Nah not fair , ima say it could be able to run away , not only grows faster , it was actually smaller , should be faster than a Rex

[sullen dragon]

The easiest way to run away is run the moment u spot whatever ur running away from

[sullen dragon]

Agreed

[golden coral]

Because it is ill suited in design, and looks, to run, has the potential weight and weapons to make it immersive enough to fight, and could serve as the lowest end of apex, similar to acro

[sullen dragon]

Yeah so why should the lowest end of apex be able to fight off the highest end of an apex

[golden coral]

Not fair? Its not fair to increase growth if you power up the playable?

[golden coral]

Because still apex, and because it's not designed to run, meanwhile you got shant, massive, and still less designed to fight for example if you're purely looking at size

[frosty heron]

Not fair to increase the growth time for a playable thats 6 tons FG , honestly as nemesis said , I dunno why people is so obsesed to Stego being able to fight Rex

Its apex on the lower end of the weight range , just like as you said Acro

Rex still 3.3 tons bigger than it and thats such a difference

[sullen dragon]

Shant is absolutely able to fight. He will pretty much one shot stomp a Rex. Even in legacy he one shot a Rex with his stomp

[golden coral]

Because stego sits in a weird position of being too large for a mid tier, not large enough to be an apex, too powerful for a midtier, not powerful enoigh for apex, and that's kind of why it seems hard to give it a good place

[sullen dragon]

If anything Shant is DESIGNED to fight

He’s a massive ass animal that one shots apexes with his stomp

[frosty heron]

We called those "Pseudo Apex" back on Legacy

[golden coral]

Having no natural weapons, I don't know about that one, sure weight, but still, trike and stego and anky are far more designed to fight

[grim moss]

What abt the buff in general feedback where u gotta flip a low stam stego to pin it?

Cuz 40% dmg reduction is Indeed insane

[golden coral]

No such thing, stego and acro were not in legacy survival

[golden coral]

Does it? The thing it stomps is an alberto

In concept art that is, for Evrima

[frosty heron]

Shant was 1 shooting Rex on Legacy , sure Shant wasnt on survival but it seemed pretty much complete (not like animals like Alberto)

[grim moss]

Stego evolved to oof theropods but i dont think anybody wants stego to get such high dmg reduction

[sullen dragon]

Yeah if it’s gonna be 14+ tons (prime is most likely 18+ tons if not more) he’s gonna one shot apexes with a stomp on the head

[frosty heron]

Also 16 tons +/- that weight is crazy

[golden coral]

No, it was never adjusted for survival, nor was anyone else that wasnt in survival

So you can't look at that matchup, you'd have to look at prog for those

[frosty heron]

People also should not forget we gonna get Camara

[golden coral]

Not neccesarily I don't think

[frosty heron]

Camara gonna pull 20 tons or so at FG probably , gonna those be inmorthal once they reach their adulthood?

[golden coral]

That'd be more likely to do the whole one shot stomp, if it can land such an attack that is

[grim moss]

I heard it was 13-15 tons

[golden coral]

Nah, giga will bleed it out probably

[grim moss]

Canara wont be fighting 1 on 1

[frosty heron]

Thats closer tho a reasonable value honestly , and still doesnt seem to be a prey item for anybody

[grim moss]

STEGO WILL DEFEAT IT

Trust me

[frosty heron]

Giga is way afar from Camara, it will happen like Stego on isla spiro, it did show up without any real threats

[frosty heron]

😏

[golden coral]

I was just talking the matchups, not at which point in time they might happen xD

[sullen dragon]

Like 40% damage reduction is actually insane. Rex regular bite deals 700 damage. 40% damage reduction on that means Rex will only be dealing 420 damage with his regular bite and crush deals 1k damage so that means it will be dealing a total of 600 damage to stego. Do you not see how ridiculous that is? Rex will basically just never win if that’s the case

[frosty heron]

Noted

[grim moss]

Its not going to be added anyways so who cares

[golden coral]

Why would stego have damage reduction anyway, theres mroe reasonable use of the plates

But the suggestion was 15%, not 40%

[grim moss]

He means people could stack it with mut

[golden coral]

But its not a mutation though?

[grim moss]

Cogenital is a mut

[sullen dragon]

Yeah just saying why rotten suggestion is ridiculous and shouldn’t be taken seriously

[timid void]

id be interested to know where we got the % numbers from

[golden coral]

How much do you get from that one when it's full?

[grim moss]

Idk i dont play ht i just trust nemesis

[grim moss]

Cogenital 15% tho

[frosty heron]

I think full upgraded Congenital is 30%

[grim moss]

15+15 is already 30

[sullen dragon]

15% passive damage reduction if the suggestion was implemented. Another 15% damage reduction from congenital (can be buffed up to 25% if entombed 2x) and people would absolutely entomb a stego and just chase down Rexes to kill them because the stego would basically be invincible at that point

[frosty heron]

25% thats it

Thought it was 30

[sullen dragon]

Oh maybe it’s even 30

[grim moss]

15+25 is 40 in total

[sullen dragon]

I’m not sure if it’s 25 or 30

[grim moss]

40% dmg reduction stego will be crazy either ways

[frosty heron]

Anyhow the combination of both is like 40% or more

which is crazy

[sullen dragon]

Ye it is crazy

[grim moss]

Crazy?

[sullen dragon]

I was crazy once

[golden coral]

I guess we should save that for anky

[grim moss]

You ruined crazy chain

[timid void]

the crazy chain went off the rails

[grim moss]

🥀

[golden coral]

I know, I saw that coming, but I've no time to spare for your shenanigans, sorry xD

[valid robin]

Did they lock you in a room? (This is supposed to be a meme)

[twilit seal]

that totals to 30% lol not 40%

[sullen dragon]

He wanted to give stego another 15%

[twilit seal]

yeah congenital is 15, so 15 plus 15 is 30

or am I missing out on congen being 25?

[sullen dragon]

Hold on

Busy rn I’ll explain in a bit

[sullen dragon]

Wait I’m talking about max entomb btw

Max entomb buffs. Stegos would do that to be invincible

So 15% passive damage reduction and top that off with 25% damage reduction for entombs that’s 40%.

[twilit seal]

I meannn against rex, youre dead after you get broken, which is the only thing you can utilize congenital against (i guess trike too but you cant really fight it)

[grim moss]

More stego bleed 🤑

[hasty coyote]

I don’t think congenital or the added damage resist would affect the fracture lol, since crush targets specifically the leg with fracture damage. Because Rex can fracture trikes from the face even through the damage resist because the leg is what’s tanking the fracture.

[twilit seal]

Yeah I know i meant like

Congenital is only gonna benefit against rex or trike matchup

I didnt mean it reduces frac damage

Cuz they are the only two larger species, which already have an easy time with stego

[hasty coyote]

Ah makes sense. Then consider that to be even more reason for congenital being bad on stego lol.

[sullen dragon]

No lol

[twilit seal]

No i mean its not bad, i still take it. Its useful for rex

[sullen dragon]

At that point Rex won’t deal any meaningful damage. Crush literally would deal 600 damage and regular bite 400 damage

And if the stego has tactile the Rex insta losses

[twilit seal]

Okay and? Doesnt matter in the end, a stego cannot power swing at all, does a measly 600 damage anyway, and you stun the steg with each crush meaning you dont get hit at all, you can kill stego without getting hit once as rex

[twilit seal]

Even with tactile, one power swing takes 40% stam after being fractured

And the stego will likely be spamming the alts after getting fractured in panic cuz what other option does it have? Other than hoping to get more damage

Meaning it will lose 20% stam each alt nullifying the stam regain, because again, rex is dealing less damage=less stam

I have a recent clip against stego when I was 4 ton and steg was around 4 ton too (it took like 3-4 crushes to break) and I killed it hitless basically cuz i stunned it every time i crushed

[sullen dragon]

Bad stego* you can’t base matchup on one player being bad and the other being good. A good stego will always trade blow with blow with a Rex lmao

[sullen dragon]

Again bad player

[twilit seal]

Okay lets say it trades 2 hits with 2 crush, gets broken

Rex just gets away, sits

Heals the bleed

And then stego dies cuz it cant power swing

[valid robin]

That takes like 15 minutes bro

[twilit seal]

Takes 90 secs at most with low water and food

[valid robin]

Bro my Allo didn’t heal depleted bleed for 45 minutes

[sullen dragon]

By the time Rex sits he will have 90% blood and when it heals he will be down to 20% blood. That will take around 10 minutes to heal. And you only deals 1200 damage to stego with the crushes

[twilit seal]

You know when you have the plus icon, youre not dropping right?

[twilit seal]

Rex blood heal is insanely fast btw, you get to full blood super fast

[sullen dragon]

Rex quite literally bleeds out against a stego in 3 body swings even if the Rex sits down 10 secs after

[valid robin]

Yeah but if Rex walks away and heals the bleed it will drop to like 30-20% off 2hits

Maybe even die

[twilit seal]

No, you bleed less sitting down

You guys are exaggerating the bleed on stego rn

Plus traumatic is kinda meta now, i would pick it on rex everytime for allos too

[sullen dragon]

I am not

[valid robin]

Bro if he needs traumatic he is not healing that bleed for 20 minutes

1000%

[sullen dragon]

My clan has tested this. They hit the Rex with 3 power swings and 10 secs after the Rex sat down. He still bleedout

[twilit seal]

As long as the rex gets the plus icon on that bleed bar, its gonna heal to full bleed in 2 mins mean while the steho cannot heal the fracture unless it sits down for at least 5 mins

[valid robin]

Maybe headshots

[twilit seal]

Sizes?

[sullen dragon]

Both prime

[valid robin]

Did the Rex have bleed res mut?

[twilit seal]

And like, a smart rex isnt blindly going in, its easier to bait stegos as rex, because they panic more of a hit from a rex, its the same deal when hunting stegos as diablo, since you can stun them, stego has to swing earlier

[sullen dragon]

Not sure

[valid robin]

Ima guess no

[sullen dragon]

You can try baiting a stego but a good stego never is getting baited and will always trade

[valid robin]

I think bleed res mut reduces bleed received and bleed damage taken

Which means it actually reduces bleed a lot more than advertised

Ngl I think part of the problem is just the bleed res mutation is way too strong

[hasty coyote]

wrong fracture effect, body fracture increases the stam cost, leg fracture just disables attacks (iirc it also disables power swing).

[sullen dragon]

40% damage reduction stego is just too broken

[twilit seal]

Rex gives both

Leg fracture doesnt disable any stego attacks

[hasty coyote]

does it? last I checked it was purely leg

[twilit seal]

Nah, it always gives both

At the same time

[valid robin]

I agree, I don’t think stego necessarily needs it, remove or rework traumatic, reduce bleed res mutation to 5%+2.5 per entomb, should fix all the problems

[sullen dragon]

Fr

[twilit seal]

Its not location based like pachy, you can give trike a body and leg frac from the head

[twilit seal]

Im not defending that, im just saying rn stego is free rex food

[hasty coyote]

that I do know, I just could have sworn it only applied leg

[twilit seal]

Ive died enough to rexes to know it gives both lol

[valid robin]

Going back to that video where I bit the Rex 15 times on prime allo I think it only lived cause it was like 2-3 entombs with bleed res which means it probably had like 30-60% effective reduction in bleed damage taken

Ngl all bleeders are super weak rn cause bleed is just a really weak mechanic, it’s easy to reduce bleed by an enormous amount and most bleeders ultimately just use flat damage to kill

[twilit seal]

Bite doesnt bleed that much bleed, and if it stood still or sat it wont die

[valid robin]

Fix the problems with bleed and stego will be fine

[twilit seal]

Allo bleed is fine rn, claw does insane bleed

Traumatic is annoying tho

[sullen dragon]

Yeah and solution to this is to lock Rex behind ambush when trying to hunt stegos. No more trotting stegos down or chasing them down. Nerf his stam to hell like how it was previously

[grim moss]

Buff stego bite to 1 ton dmg

[sullen dragon]

Make stegos reliably run away from Rexes

[twilit seal]

I dont think it should be like before, maybe 50 secs

[sullen dragon]

I don’t expect a non apex to fight off an apex. He’s a 6 hour grow

[valid robin]

Bro, no shot I should be closer to killing a dino with flat damage from bites than with bleed, what’s the point of even being a bleeder if I’m just flat damage dpsing things down

[grim moss]

Are u assuming my stegos gender?

[sullen dragon]

My bad lol

[sullen dragon]

50 seconds is too op. Still would trot stego down

[valid robin]

Does claw actually do good bleed? Have you tested it or experienced it?

Or is this just a repeated rumor

Cause from my own game player experiences on Allo claw attack is downright useless since it lowkey stunlocks you

[twilit seal]

Both

Yesterday we hunted 4 trikes and 2 of them wouldve bled out without traumatic

They only lived cuz they sat when their screen went dark at 0 bleed and 3 friends didnt let us get hits

[twilit seal]

Yeah but as a young rex it was miserable, its a good middle ground imo. Stego running stam could be buffed more to help that

[sullen dragon]

But it helped keep the population down

A lot of young Rexes died to them not being able to play around the bad stamina

[twilit seal]

I mean its such a horrible testing environment rn to test any animal survivsl rate

The whole ecosystem is messed up, and dibble ai makes it s free grow

[twilit seal]

Im still suggesting it gets halfed, from 100 to 50

[sullen dragon]

Yeah we have different opinions on that ig which is fine. Let’s see what the devs cook

[twilit seal]

And ambush can actually properly drain more stam. I mean honestly remove ambush

Rex doesnt need the ambush speed

[sullen dragon]

How would you ambush anything while being 29kmh is the question

It’s so rare to find anybody that goes straight to ur bush, basically impossible to ambush without ambush speed

[twilit seal]

By setting up a proper ambush, not running and blowing my cover and pressing a button to increase my speed

[sullen dragon]

Setting up a proper ambush doesn’t work 90% of the time

[twilit seal]

Non of the rexes ive seen use it to ambush lol, they just run out of a bush and run fast for like what, 15 secs?

[sullen dragon]

29kmh is just far too slow

Even my grandma reaction time would be able to react fast enough to get away even if the Rex ambushed from 20 meters away

[twilit seal]

Yeah but the way its executed is wrong imo, either it should require you to be crouched or stand still to fill up a meter before you can use it

[sullen dragon]

If they do this they’re ambushing wrong. Even with ambush ur slower than 95% of the roster

So if the opposing Dino sees them he’s able to get away

[twilit seal]

Its more so an issue with younger rexes, i mean even with ambush anything small can still get away from a fg

[sullen dragon]

Yeah def too easy to use rn

Personally I’d like ambush to only be usable at 100% stamina. If you stop ambush goes away. If you get hit it goes away. And if you bite it should go away

[twilit seal]

The ambush just lasts too long too imo

[sullen dragon]

Making it 5 secs seems fair too

[twilit seal]

Yeah

I dont like the stam thing personally, id rather have shorter duration and a crouch requirement

[tight cove]

they could make rex run at ambush speed at 39 but only for 15 secs

[twilit seal]

I mean 15 secs is long, and 39 is hella fast

[sullen dragon]

39 is too much. Rn it’s perfect. It goes to like 34.2kmh which is slightly faster than allo

[twilit seal]

Isnt it already something around that

[tight cove]

i was thinking anywhere at like 10-15 secs

[sullen dragon]

No rn it’s slightly faster than allo around. 35.2kmh

[twilit seal]

I mean if you set up a proper ambush, 5 secs is actually pretty long enough to catch up imo

[tight cove]

regular adult rex or prime elder?

[sullen dragon]

Adult Rex

[twilit seal]

Most ambushes I got were people just coming towards my camping spot, that couldnt react in time

I never needed to activate ambush to chase

[vagrant plover]

Wtf , Rex is.34.2?

[sullen dragon]

You’ve been super lucky then. Personally even if I try ambushing things they’re usually 5-1 meters away from me which is super close but at the same time without ambush speed they’ll be able to react fast enough to get away (ur 29kmh without ambush which is slow af). Having something be close to you point blank is near impossible to pull off an ambush without ambush speed

[tight cove]

thats sound good, becuase if it can catch allo then it can catch dibble

[sullen dragon]

Ye but it shouldn’t be catching dibble to begin with lowk

Dibble is a walking free meal rn

[twilit seal]

I set up ambushes well at better spots too

[sullen dragon]

You mean like bridges?

[twilit seal]

I mean honestly, like i said, hordetest is a horrible testing environment. You dont get nearly enough player interactions, survive mostly on ai, horrible diversity, everyone at delta etc

[tight cove]

yeah dibble needs a complete rework but i do think that if a rex can get within ambush distance of an unaware dibble it should be able to catch it with ambush speed.

[twilit seal]

Not necessarily, just high traffic pathways people usually take

[tight cove]

solo dibble rn is a unviable fodder animal 😂

[twilit seal]

You can also sometimes predict if you spot a potential target where they are gonna go

Like I dont like that there are many changes to balance going on hordetest

Balance changes couldve waited for live

Hordetest is just a bad experience with many factors that ruin proper matchups to test

[tight cove]

yeah the ping is always bad and theres a ton of hackers and mix packs

[finite shadow]

both prime and frail end up having a trot speed similar to that of cerato @twilit seal

[twilit seal]

Yeah Im aware, which is what it should be normally. Its weird that it doesnt have it early

Ive seen a clip of a friend, that had frail allo but close to 100% having much faster trot

[finite shadow]

most of allos stats rn still seem to be tuned to when it had ambush speed, hopefully they get a good once over cause yea the trot is painful until you hit prime or after 95%

[twilit seal]

I mean allo still feels so incomplete, the broken turn, the lack of a slide, the fast bite speed etc

I still think allo should be 37kmh but not get an ambush, it doesnt need an ambush

Trot is probably bugged too cuz no other playables get that high of a trot difference

[finite shadow]

pretty sure they're all intended, at least for now. id like to see allo moved upto at least 37-38 then 35 for prime

i know the fast bite speed is intended

[twilit seal]

Thats worse if its intended, the animations and fluidity are so much lower quality compared to others

Im mainly talking about the standing still turn, and the weird slide. I mean, its clearly missing a slide animation

[finite shadow]

it has a really nice slide anim its just being extremely restricted atm so makes me think its intentional, i think the standing turn is also intentional considering it loses it at adult and becomes way more sluggish.

[twilit seal]

The standing turn animation doesnt seem complete, it just rotates. Same with the slide, it slides forward, but doesnt have animation to slide to the sides, it just weirdly leans around

If i was on my pc i would show what I mean

[finite shadow]

I’ve seen the full slide animation, what we’ve got in game atm is pathetic I know what you mean. You only keep the rotating standing turn until you hit 75% then it slows down and starts playing properly

[twilit seal]

Yeah exactly, thats what I mean

[crystal stream]

Are we deaduzz🥀

[valid robin]

Well he’s right, it’s kinda funny since this has been true for a lot of preds for a while tho

[crystal stream]

I can get behind Stego but wtf does dibble need a buff pin is just stupid broken rn

[boreal ingot]

I just need to get this out of my system, but I just got out stammed and out run by a bigger deino ON LAND. I swear there is no escape for smaller deinos at all.

[valid robin]

Yes growing Deino is basically self mutilation

[crystal stream]

This game makes no sense sometimes

[valid robin]

Meh imo stego is only weak cause bleed res mutations are insanely strong

[boreal ingot]

It honestly is at this point, unloess you are mix packing to grow at 200% then you are getting KOS'ed. And the fish are so broken the only place to get a consistent food supply is delta, where you will 100% be KOS'ed. He was also able to grab me on land? I was 60%. It's so unbalanced right now.

[crystal stream]

I can get behind it I don’t agree but a Stego buff I wouldn’t complain the most about even if the thing is already stupid strong

Mainly because Rex exist

[hasty coyote]

they never said diablo needs a buff, just that the balance needs an overhaul. Though tbh, I do think diablo should be slightly faster than rex's ambush since it genuinely can't fight back, can't juke it, and doesnt really have any other way to escape except running.Whether that means buffing diablo and allo's speeds or nerfing rex's doesn't matter to me

[valid robin]

All I can say is, aquatics are seriously unbalanced rn and until there are 2-3 more aquatics in the game deino is gonna struggle

[valid robin]

Also I think they changed dibbles stats

[hasty coyote]

there is no escape, you're only option is to hide. Which stinks ngl

[boreal ingot]

Agree completely

[crystal stream]

Dibble is fine rn wdym

[valid robin]

Like yesterday I watched a sub dibble chase down a Cerato

[boreal ingot]

That's the best part there is almost nowhere to hide in the water

[crystal stream]

Rex being able to be fast than dibble as fg is stupid in general

[valid robin]

I didn’t know they could do that

Then they chased me down

[hasty coyote]

other than it getting nerfed to 34kph at the start of the ht, I havent heard of any changes

[valid robin]

I was an allo

[crystal stream]

If ambush lasted less sure but it lasts way to long to be running down dibble

[boreal ingot]

I feel like if the fixed the Damage goes to Stam first mut, it would help Steg a lot. Like make it hit food or water or something instead of stam- the thing you need to defend yourself and get away.

[valid robin]

I swear either those guys were hackers and I somehow 1 v 3ed some hackers or dibble got some changes

[hasty coyote]

run down by rex (who now has equal stam time), allos can literally face tank a knockdown then pounce and still win the trade, and 2.1 ton cera is a menace.

[valid robin]

I am going to grow a dibble right now, I swear they changed it

[crystal stream]

2.1 prime cera should be a manace to a frail dibble 😭😭

[boreal ingot]

I feel like they are adding just too many one-shot KO abilities in general.

[crystal stream]

Ran down by a Rex only with ambush that lasts way to long

[valid robin]

Doesn’t ambush only give you like 35 Kmh

[crystal stream]

And dibb can knock allo off with tree

[hasty coyote]

diablo is 34

[crystal stream]

I don’t see a problem here jst a skill issue

[hasty coyote]

if they have then I'd love to see it

[valid robin]

Maybe they just buffed the growth curve

[crystal stream]

Allo pounce and pin is kinda dumb rn tho

[valid robin]

Cause I swear I watched two sub dibbles run down a Cerato

Then they ran me down

And I had to 3v1 them

I was an allo

Not fg

[crystal stream]

Dibble has all the tools it needs to survive just the question of if your lucky and if you use them right

Imo

Except for allo pin

[hasty coyote]

its still a menace to any diablo because it still has the agility to damn near tail ride since diablo got its drift nerfed (or bugged).
Rex having that run time is a problem that needs to be fixed (aka part of that the balance overhaul mentioned above)
and allo specifically requires large trees or rocks. Neither of which are very common or very easy to access when you have something on your back making you bleed out as you run there. Though this is more of a bucking issue in general with allo (aka part of the balance overhaul)

Balance overhaul doesnt mean make diablo and stego into gods to fight the op dinos, it means make the op dinos less op and fix the glaring issues with these dinos.

[crystal stream]

Okay bro no need for a essay damn 😭😭🪫🪫

[hasty coyote]

when you point out the exact problems, then glance over the reasons they are problems, and then say skill issue, I aint letting that slide

[crystal stream]

Anyway deep dive time idk why tf they got rid of dibble drift that’s dumb on dev part but if you can’t defend yourself as a dibble against a prime cera im srry but you lwk buns with drift again idk why they got rid of it

[crystal stream]

Does sound like a skill issue still

Again with drift idk why they would remove one of dibble main way of defending themselves

[hasty coyote]

because they can literally tail ride you. You can't physically turn fast enough to get them off before they land like 4 bites.

[crystal stream]

Again with drift that should not be happening

[valid robin]

Cerato bite speed is not all that

[crystal stream]

They removed it for some reason

If you fight dibble v cera in main branch rn and I used to love fighting dibbles as cera I will say it is one of the hardest matchups you can have

[hasty coyote]

IT DOESNT HAVE DRIFT THATS THE PROBLEM

You can't just say "this wouldnt be a problem if X was the case" WHEN X IS NOT THE CASE. Me wanting X to be the case is the entire point of the balance adjustment

[crystal stream]

If the dibble actually has a brain

[crystal stream]

So give dibble drift back problem solved

[hasty coyote]

it aint cera's bite speed, its the damn agility without drift being abysmal

[hasty coyote]

That is what I am saying

[valid robin]

Even with that dibble should absolutely cook cera 1 v 1

[crystal stream]

We don’t need a whole overhaul jst give it drift back and dibble chill and fix Rex and allo

[crystal stream]

Tbf without drift is a lil brutal

[hasty coyote]

if the cera is dumb and gets hit constantly (which lets be honest, most ceras will) then yeah, but it takes 4 combos to kill a prime cera. That means the cera needs to make an egregious error 4 times to die. Meanwhile all they need to do is shift w in a circle and they get behind you unless you immediately get your back to a rock.

[valid robin]

But you can’t compare primes to normal dinos

That’s like comparing prime Omni to normal Dilo

[hasty coyote]

1: primes are still part of the game, whether you like it or not. And if the adult of a species is having way too much difficulty with a prime, that really hurts their viability. Who wants to play a dino when they just die on sight to X prime? Granted, this is an issue with many primes overall, but its still a problem in this case.

2: if anything, prime cera is worse at killing diablos because adult cera is faster, which means it can get more bites before the diablo is able to turn around.

[valid robin]

Dude I can make this same argument about prime carno vs normal Cerato, why don’t we buff Cerato?

[hasty coyote]

not buff normal cera, nerf prime carno

[boreal ingot]

I agree. Being Prime should give you an advantage, not make you OP. And whether you are prime or not, the dino should stay in its tier.

[hasty coyote]

granted, carno kinda needs a nerf on manual headbutt because that thing is a bit op atm anyway as well (mainly the fact you gain full value while being able to spam it standing still)

[hasty coyote]

I can see a fight becoming more favoring a prime due to a prime being stronger, but that shouldnt mean it should suddenly be allowed to run down every other adult. Like prime cera got its speed nerfed from 45 to 39, which is a really good step in the right direction. Prime cera does get a lot more power, but it comes at the cost of being slower than many of the targets it bullies

[boreal ingot]

Agreed. I think a lot of problems could be fixed if the difference between a normal and prime dino weren't so dramatic.

[hasty coyote]

however the diablo v prime cera issue is purely due to diablo's drift being gutted for 0 reason, which is a diablo problem that persists through many other matchups too (like allo)

[valid robin]

Ok I’m working on a dibble rn

Yo I’m at 36.1 Kmh

Was he always this fast

[hasty coyote]

at what size? because normally diablo is slower than the adult as it grows

[valid robin]

One sec screenshot inc