balance-feedback-discussion

[iron remnant]

And Carn's speed is not much faster than Diablo. If you look back while running, you can't outrun him at all.

[alpine plover]

As I said, they never got hit in that vid when they did just one bite unless they were in front of the dib. Dib has to be strong or it would die every fight. Herbs aren't just walking lunchboxes.

No one would play them.

[iron remnant]

With a speed of 36, a weight of 3 tons and a very fast turning speed, only two dioblas standing back to back can defeat any medium-sized dinosaur.

[alpine plover]

The fight went south for the ceras because of lack of patience and bite control. That's really it.

[iron remnant]

His stats are much stronger than other medium-sized dinosaurs.

[alpine plover]

Trike is stronger.

Are we looking at the same potato? lol

It's bad to call for a nerf on something because of one bad fight where the ceras made huge, obvious mistakes.

I just realized you were the green and blue cera. 😅 It's obvious you know what you're doing and how to play cera in the vid. I think if you hadn't gotten greedy with bites and kept out from in front of it you would have owned that dib.

[wise obsidian]

Dibble is not strong at all in its current state

Its damage is fine, its maneuverability is what kills it

3 ceratos do light work of a single dibble

[hasty coyote]

Diablo on live is strong, but it’s avoidable. So not really an issue

Diablo on ht is close to fodder with drift gone and the speed nerf (though iirc the drift nerf isn’t intentional)

[sage otter]

its hardly fodder. just feels like it atm since the entire server pop is rex

[vale brook]

tbf, no drift is a heavy nerf

for a ceratopsian that relies on its agility to maintain a frontal facing direction towards threats, not being able to drift is a considerable hit to agility

that paired with the speed nerf putting it below rex sprint/ambush speed makes it feel real bad from what i see

[haughty grotto]

@sage otter I think you should read the devblog bruh

[dusky surge]

cera and carno aren't medium sized dinos the same way dibble is, much like how they also won't stand a chance against allo

[dusky surge]

no, it really is fodder

dibble on HT is quite literally such food they decided to make it AI lol

as it stands, there is zero reason to select dibble over trike

[stark ether]

Dibble had such a good niche prior to Rex coming out

It just suffers from the infamous “slower and weaker than X playable syndrome” that forces players to either live in open fields forever or die because they accidentally got within X distance of a common, popular playable

[haughty grotto]

Let's see how it fares after the rex nerfs and speed mut removal

[haughty grotto]

Dibble has been very dominant for a long time

[dusky surge]

Ehhh I don’t know about that

[hasty coyote]

diablo has been stronger than most the roster 1v1, yes, but its also larger and slower than most the roster. Plus it's incredibly vulnerable to packs since they can jump its back while it mauls someone in the front.

[maiden temple]

It suffered from an awful hitbox in my experience, hunting these was not fun when the hit happened before the animation properly caught up. I felt it just as badly when playing one v.v

I really like it apart from that, it's bouncy and can defend itself well

[rigid tulip]

Just delete ptera at this point bro

[haughty grotto]

@stone dome I really don't get it. Raptor is literally one of the weakest dinos in the game with a million counters to it. Also it gets one shot or two shot by almost the entire roster. It needs a serious buff to stay viable with rex and allo coming in and here you're talking about a nerf?
Also to pin a cera, it's not 1-2 raptors, it's 3 raptors. 2 can only pin if you're very low on stam or health or blood pool.

[primal kraken]

No sorry

[thorn mountain]

why?

[rigid tulip]

It cannot perform combat

The intention is to literally take away its ability to fight lol

[thorn mountain]

yea

no more pvp ptera

[steep gazelle]

The devs are bullying poor ptera

[rigid tulip]

Its not bullying its a statement of “i will genuinely enforce mechanics that completely stop you from playing the game a way i dislike”

Ptera is hypsi/dryo tier now

Forever

Quetz is the only hope if you enjoyed the uniqueness and 3 dimensional air combat and that feeling of freedom

But we all know its going to probably 1. Be hard forced to not flying peck anything unless its way smaller than itself. 2. Not be able to fly up a mountain without resting twice 3. Take 6 minutes to refill stamina

[cosmic pelican]

Referring to ptera being unable to hunt

[steep gazelle]

Yes, but it's still sad. Ptera will be forgotten just like Hypsi and Dryo

And I have no hope Quetzal will be a good playable just having Ptera as an example, Unfortunately

[quiet ember]

Fair but that's a pretty vague response. This could simply mean they intend to add the small ai hunting mechanic, referred to in a prev devblog. Personally I've reached a point with Pt where im just sitting back and hoping it comes out decent 😅

[sage otter]

depends on what ur definition of a good playable is. It certainly choudlt be able to hunt adult carnos or ceratos. Mybe it could go after omni or dilo tho.

[obsidian yacht]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1011130915054952469/1155498069631172628/attachment-1.gif

[rigid tulip]

Ah yes from “let me fly across the map and peck small dinosaurs and make them fear the open plains and soar up waterfalls to “fly down, kill ai rats, fly back up, sit for 4 minutes… repeat” for its whole life

[vocal mauve]

Real and true

Pre nerf ptera will be missed dearly.

[dusky surge]

small dinosaurs...

if only it were that simple

ptera's issue is that it kinda did far better against bigger boys than small dinos

it was carnos, ceras, dibbles and such that primarily suffered from experienced pteras

[vocal mauve]

Thats one thing that made it kinda fun, it can get one shot by anything at any time but can still bully when it wants to. Also the freedom the previous flight gave can't be matched.

[dusky surge]

eh, i prefer it feeling like an animal rather than a drone

frankly i enjoy this new ptera far more than older ptera iterations

[vocal mauve]

Can't relate, it felt like an animal to me, sounds like you weren't playing it right

[dusky surge]

???

it has nothing to do with how i play it lol

it turned like a drone

[vocal mauve]

How it feels when you play it is definitely determined by how youre playing it

If youre playing it like an animal itll feel like an animal

If youre playing it like a drone itll feel like a drone

[dusky surge]

ehhh

if its base flight controls don't feel natural, i disagree

its base flight feels far more natural now, but before, it turned WAY too fast

[vocal mauve]

When I played it, it felt like an animal that could bully when it wanted to but also gave a level of freedom that can't be matched

[dusky surge]

to me it felt like a demo of flight systems with a model attached

it lacked the weighty, grounded feel the rest of the roster had and had so little to fundamentally do that its core experience was best described as "get bored and harass something that can't do anything about it"

new ptera actually feels like a 45kg flying animal

it has to lean into its turns and utilise air currents to best take advantage of its mobility

its an actual fisher/scavenger with the ability to get clams/fish via a unique hunting method, and it has to crack those clams open to get the fresh meat inside

with more systems like this, ptera doesn't need to harass things to be worth the time of players, it can actually do things on its own merit

[keen plover]

Yeah and that was dumb.

idrc how you spin it, a good ptera player was capable of harassing and hunting everything. The only thing holding it back was possibly the stam. On spiro when it had both the good turn and stam (also stam regen), you could kill anything. In the open or in jungles.

Forcing multi ton animals into jungles is stupid. Good thing it's gone.

Or going up a hill like some ptera players have said. No, it wasn't ever fair. It shouldn't even be a worry. Flyers shouldn't get the luxury of doing that.

[dusky surge]

and by that note, quetz shouldn't get the privilege either just because it's bigger. Mid-large animals should be relatively safe from being spampecked to death without counterplay

[dusky surge]

any experienced ptera knew the way to maintain high levels of stam without consequence

it was only the inexperienced that suffered from the "poor stam". Good pteras were terminators

[keen plover]

Depends with current stam but yeah they were more menacing than they should have been

[dusky surge]

its like if a magpie swooped a kangaroo until it died

do magpies realistically swoop things? Yea sure they do. Do they hunt down animals hundreds of times their mass until they die? No that's absurd

[keen plover]

I remember on spiro when a friend and i hunted 3 carnos. 1 logged and 2 died lol. I've also had it happen to me vs a cracked ptera. Guy could not be avoided even in dense foliage. Even sat and all. Nothing worked. Decided to log on it.

I get the ptera players wanting more pvp though. I just don't think the way it did it was fair

[dusky surge]

honestly i'd be more happy if ptera had a non-lethal encouragement to pester creatures like a magpie would for scavenging/territory protection/general fun

just the lethality completely gets me

[keen plover]

I personally think it should get a stam regen and a bump to the aerial agility. Nothing crazy, but better handling in the HT. Also better ground movement. Maybe an additional attack - for the ground.

[dusky surge]

i stand by ptera not feeling like an animal

its participation in the ecosystem was minimal, with an ability to evade all threats, no organs, hardly on any diets and only 45kg

its flight was weightless and inorganic, a far cry from the movement of the land or aquatic animals, and its combat was entirely unimmersive, with several ton behemoths helpless to attack a small bird hovering just above their heads

it was not to the same level as everything else when it came to participating in the whole ecosystem and it showed

it was a demo of flight, not a playable creature

[dusky surge]

i'd give it ability to eat rotten meat, slight midair agility improvements, heavy ground improvements for combat and movement, and possibly improvements to stam regen

and for things i dream about but likely won't be the case, aquatic diving and takeoffs

that, to me, would be a perfectly unique animal with a ton of unique ways to engage with its ecosystem without being the worst

[vocal mauve]

and thats your opinion, wasnt dumb in my opinion and rip ptera because of it.

[keen plover]

Yk fair.

I can understand wanting ptera to do that tbh

Personally disliked it though and happy for the changes

[dusky surge]

I don’t think “RIP ptera” lol. It has so much more to it

[vocal mauve]

for me rip ptera. IDK if I can enjoy it as much having to hover to play tag with the gators anymore

I also really did enjoy the freedom of flight before, up and down waterfalls and such, idk, I loved the old movement too

but I havent given new ptera a chance yet, barely touched the isle since the cheater epidemic, and when i did play last i of course chose my trusty ol ptera to check out the game again and BAM just so different lol

IDK if i'll be able to love new ptera the same, maybe one day i'll give it a chance..

[faint robin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/OD6PNCaKqTQ?si=y0stw6LGehxif5Gd rex balance

[keen plover]

looks like an old man diablo lol, but that ambush duration is absurd

More of a pursuit tool

[dusky surge]

“Ambush” lmao

[frosty heron]

"REMOVE PIN as Rex doesnt need it to hunt"

"Posts the video of the most skill issue Maia player in the world that got killed being twice the size of the Rex"

Play the playables before posting dumb stuff , for real

[keen plover]

Eh, ngl that speed nerf on old diablo is probably the worst thing there lol. It was struggling to outpace the rex without ambush

[faint robin]

It just shows how small ahh rex pins massive maia crippling it

[keen plover]

I mean that's all changing anyways per the devblog so

[frosty heron]

That Maia was 0% stamina , had you seen the whole fight tho? He missed 90% of his attacks in a 10 minutes hunt , not the best example to say "Rex doesnt need Pin" , completely false on bigger Rexes as most herbs can outstam and outspeed Rex when its bigger

Besides Trike of course

[faint robin]

Pin issue goes mostly to trike when rex is the same size. Most are fine w rex pinning smaller things

[frosty heron]

As far as I could test , a 4T Rex can even pin a elder Stego if this one is 0% stamina , but at that size the pin damage/stamina ratio just makes Rex lose all its stamina before actually doing a decent damage (scales with the bitteforce)

Pinning at those size differences , even if its possible , it would only help when theres 2 Rexes , for a solo is actually kinda stupid to do

Doesnt need it? I would say just in the fast stages , soon as you reach 3T Rex I think it needs it to hunt

[dusky surge]

Lmao the fact that a Maia “twice the size of rex” was getting pinned is bad enough, but idk if you noticed but it has leg frac, meaning it had effectively no good combat tools to deal with said Rex

Don’t tell others they don’t know lmao

[frosty heron]

Im not gonna have an argument with someone who never played Rex , specially if its the carni hater number 1

[dusky surge]

I literally main carnis lol

But yea sure man

[frosty heron]

Thats just bait , probably a straight lie , ive seen all your suggestion , clearly not a carni main

ill say , based on your way to see the game , you main either Stego or Pachy

[dusky surge]

I hate playing stego lol

And pachy is a rarity for me

My fave herbi is actually hypsi

[frosty heron]

Im playing Stego rn just in case someone thinks I hate herbis

In fact I even suggested once to buff Maia

[dusky surge]

Point aside, Rex doesn’t need to pin larger than its own weight, and thankfully it’s being fixed

[steep gazelle]

Rex doesn't need to Pin Low Health/Stam creatures, it just works well without being completely unbalanced on Omni

[steep gazelle]

Not to mention that this Sub Rex was also able to Pin and Fracture the leg of an Elder Maia. How is that fair, man? Xd

[frosty heron]

Calling Omni unbalanced is a big take , thats why im not even bothering on explain to you , play the game first , grow a Rex and you will understand why it needs pin , remove it and all the prey you ambush is gonna wigle on you if you dont get the bonebreak (which is a random chance on non pinned creatures)

Sure not on bigger target than itself , but pin is completely neccesary

[hasty coyote]

Mainly because 1:omni is small, 2: it still requires multiple Omnis to grapple. So for Omni it’s basically a way to finish off a guaranteed kill with a pack, rather than get picked off because the target can still 1-tap you even at low hp and 0 stam.

Meanwhile for Rex it basically just means it gets to ignore 1/4th of your hp. And with it being able to leg fracture, it’s closer to half your hp.

[frosty heron]

Sub/Adult Rexes dont have the stam and the speed to endurance anything they hunt

[steep gazelle]

I didn't say that Omni is unbalanced, but rather that this mechanic only works correctly without being unbalanced in Omni. And I also didn't say to remove the Pin completely, just the Pin on Low health/Stam Creatures. Damn dude

[steep gazelle]

Yes, that's extremely true. Currently a Trike only has 7600hp against a Rex thanks to this mechanic

[hasty coyote]

Also fractures aren’t rng, it’s based on a limb health system.

[frosty heron]

Even worse because to fracture a bigger target than you , you need like 4-5 crushes

[hasty coyote]

The fact you only need to land 4-5 attacks to completely disable something bigger than you is a problem. Because that means you only need to land 1-3 attacks to instantly disable things slightly smaller or similarly sized.

[frosty heron]

The values aint clear yet because I even tested as Prime Elder Rex (12.3T) to crush a Trike at 9.5T from the back and it didnt pin it , not even bonebreak

[steep gazelle]

Leg Fracture is an extremely strong debuff and that's exactly why Pachy has so many limitations, why shouldn't Rex have the same?

[hasty coyote]

Imo: either leg fracture gets the heavy nerf it needs, or Rex shouldn’t get it. I’d be fine with body fracture even.

[steep gazelle]

It's funny to see how these Rex players want to kill everything with just one skill that doesn't require a brain to use, And they still use the excuse of "Because it's a Rex, an Apex!" Xd

[frosty heron]

Yall comparing a fast nimble herbi with Rex for fractures? Im donne lmao

[hasty coyote]

I have seen an 8 ton Rex hit 4 crushes on a prime trike and broke its legs.

[frosty heron]

I can apply that to Stego and Trike as they both do the same actually

[steep gazelle]

The same as Rex? Definitely not xd

[slim dragon]

Stego has a pin ???

Woah I didn't know
Which key is it ?

[frosty heron]

They kill you in 1 interaction with a non skilled button

Case of Trike , 2 buttons , but still kills you

[slim dragon]

Who is "you" is what matters here

Because pretty much everything in this game can kill "you" in 1 click of a button, except hypsi

[frosty heron]

Again , not argumenting this with PRIME carni haters in this game

[steep gazelle]

Stego and trike cannot run at 35km and cause pin and fractures in things 2x their size

[hasty coyote]

Leg fracture basically turns off the opponent. Doesn’t matter what type of Dino you are, the fact is you can ignore at least half of the target’s hp because leg fracture is a death sentence. That’s the problem, and it has been a problem pachy has been dealing with since release.

[steep gazelle]

Carni haters? This is funny

[frosty heron]

Ive seen Stegos killing Trikes by just spamming RMB what youre talking about

Even over 10T Rexes

[steep gazelle]

This is literally the only ability Stego has

[frosty heron]

Same goes for the Rex then? What other stuff it has appart of cringe pushes?

Murder sprint? Oh yeah I forgot , Rex is 29km/h and has no stamina , maybe doesnt need it right?

[steep gazelle]

Rex has a Headbutt that causes Stun and Knockdown, a very strong bite and an ability that overrides his entire skill kit, the crush

[frosty heron]

Remove crush until 50% if you want , but Rex will be the hardest thing to grow in the game , deserves to be strong after reaching the mileage

[steep gazelle]

That's exactly how it should be

Why would you want to grow a Rex as easily as you grow a Cerato?

[frosty heron]

The strong bite has the worst DPS of the apexes , only usefull against tiny targets or to take away a bit HP to meet the HP threesold for crush , you aint killing anything with just bites unless youre the NPC Maia posted in the video

[slim dragon]

Not when compared to the bite of the other apexes

[hasty coyote]

I like carnis, I dislike op dinos that remove counterplay. My dude I have been advocating for leg fracture to get nerfed because of pachy for a WHILE. It has put pachy in a spot where it’s either op or very weak entirely based on if it got leg fracture. It’s poor balance to deal with and I hope they don’t do that to Rex.

[steep gazelle]

Rex bite has the strongest dmg bite force

[frosty heron]

Cerato? My man if I want to play the easy game ill just play any Herbi as theyre damn overtuned

[frosty heron]

Stego does , 1200

[slim dragon]

not a bite

[steep gazelle]

This is a skill that consumes a lot of stam

[frosty heron]

A lot of stamina? Lol , im talking about the normal swing

Powerswing damage is even way higher

Higher , does CC and does the best bleed , EXPECTED to take a chunk of stamina

Also high DPS rate

[slim dragon]

Powerswing deals less damage than rex crush :)

[steep gazelle]

Yes. Do you really think the stam cost is low?

[frosty heron]

Show me the values

[steep gazelle]

Crush does 3k dmg, power swing does 1200-1800

[frosty heron]

Hell it is man , for the damage it does and the potential it has to delete anything in a single mistake

[slim dragon]

powerswing is around 2 000
crush is 3 000

[frosty heron]

Crush isnt spameable , has a cooldown , its the difference

[slim dragon]

Crush is absolutely spammable

[steep gazelle]

Crush is extremely spammable

[frosty heron]

🤣 Whatever m8 , play the game please

[steep gazelle]

And it still costs less stam to use than the power swing

[slim dragon]

But tbh that's not the only difference
Other differences being that crush also inflicts bonebreak, costs less stamina, can pin the target even if its heavier (thankfully not for much longer)

[hasty coyote]

Yes, but 1:that costs a LOT of stam, 2: if trike just looks at stego, stego literally lacks the stam to kill it, 3: trike can kill it with a knockdown + thrash, and 4: stego’s attack is rear oriented and stops movement so it can’t use it offensively.

Rex either lacks these weaknesses or has the tools to overcome them. Namely it can out turn trike, can stick behind trike while spamming crush, spar with trike and lunge to the side, its attacks cost low stam, and it only needs 2-3 before leg fracture, which is immediate death. So Rex just needs to get behind the trike once and trike loses the fight. Meanwhile for stego to win the trike needs to face away, not move at all, not turn towards the stego, and not decide to maul the stego.

[stark ether]

And that's just adult rex's issues. Imagine if stego was running down things like tenos and pachies during juvie stage while still being able to powerswing. Insanity

[magic ermine]

Crush won’t be able to be spammed in the coming update since it was a exploit

[magic ermine]

Stego cannot be knocked over by trike if both are primes and max weight. A stego can and will kill a trike without any real issues since while you thrash once the stego used power swing like 5-6 times not to mention it also stuns you

The most you can do to a steg is stun it with ur knockdown

[steep gazelle]

Knockdown Stego once is all Trike needs to kill him, Only needing 1 thrash to kill an adult and 2 thrash to kill a prime

[magic ermine]

You need to hit both parts of that though. One trash is roughly the same as 3 power swings and the thrash has a LOT of end lag. If the stego knows this it will bait ur thrash and simply walk away from it to avoid its full dmg

Like I said before you CANNOT knock a trike down if you are around the same % growth. Just not possible. Your only defense as a trike is to either walk away or use normal head butt to not eat 5 power swings and die since you can spam it

[steep gazelle]

There is no way for the stego to escape to prevent the full damage (6k dmg), And if he runs away he will leave the 5s cooldown to be knocked down again reset. So, a Trike only loses to a Stego if it wants to

[magic ermine]

Incorrect what part of you can’t knock down a stego if you are the same % do you not get? A stego can stun you as well the same way you stun it but you can’t thrash fast enough to deal significant dmg before you eat power swings

If the trike is significantly bigger like prime vs adult then yes the trike wins that all the time due to knockdown

But without the knockdown trike loses

[steep gazelle]

You said both prime and at your max weight, So Trike heavier

[magic ermine]

Yes but not heavy enough to knock it down

I challenge you to go into a game as a prime trike and fight a prime stego while y’all are both max weight

[steep gazelle]

So they are not at their maximum weight

[magic ermine]

You will NOT knock it down

[steep gazelle]

A Trike and Stego of the same weight, the Stego wins. But a heavier Trike against a Stego, the Trike wins easily.

[magic ermine]

A prime trike is 12.5 tons and a prime stego is 9.3 tons you cannot knock the stego over

You can only knock adults over that are 8 tons

[magic ermine]

You only win if you can knock it down

[steep gazelle]

Trike can knock down anything smaller than him, man

[magic ermine]

Not true

The difference in weight must be at least 3-4 tons

The same way a prime rex can’t pin a prime stego and it’s 12 tons vs 9

[steep gazelle]

Why do you think the 9.3t Rex is knocked by a 9.5t trike? Xd

[magic ermine]

Then why can’t you knock over full prime Rex’s as a full prime trike? Xd

12 tons vs 12.5 and you can’t knock them over? xd

[steep gazelle]

Probably Bug. Or probably both of them weren't actually at the weight they thought they were, due to the rapid changes when they started losing prime

[magic ermine]

Weight doesn’t get affected by the loss of prime you stay the max weight after 87% ish

[steep gazelle]

Unless the Stego magically acquires stability that increases its weight to 12.5t when prime

[magic ermine]

The reason is simple, trike can only knock things over in certain % differences based on its weight

As to what that value is I have no idea but as it stands full prime trike loses to full prime stego and it’s no contest

The first power swing stuns letting you hit 2 more and they HURT

You’ll go down to orange after that exchange alone

The only way rex wins against stego is using crush only

Since crush stuns briefly

[steep gazelle]

Prime stego Stun threshold is 11.5t

[magic ermine]

It works as a full prime I’ve TESTED this

[steep gazelle]

Probably a bug then

[magic ermine]

Trike is probably bugged or stego is bugged

But as it stands right now in current HT trike loses to stego

[magic ermine]

It wasn’t a one off thing either I’ve tested this intently since before rex can knock over a stego but now it can’t

Rex knockdown and trike knockdown work fundamentally the same way and I’ve tested it on both creatures

[steep gazelle]

I haven't seen any of this on hordtest once, so I can't agree or disagree on whether it's true or not, but it shouldn't happen this way, Based on weight difference

[magic ermine]

That I can agree with but sadly the way it is now it’s not like that

Trike needs a buff bad, it loses to stego and loses to rex in a stages due to its thrash’s end lag

If anything make the thrash briefly stun like the crush does

[steep gazelle]

If you have any videos, make one bug report

[magic ermine]

I don’t think it’s a bug though I just think they didn’t make trike heavy enough

[steep gazelle]

Or a feedback

[magic ermine]

Trike should easily be 16 tons

[steep gazelle]

This is a 99% chance of being a Bug

[magic ermine]

Maybe they just didn’t want stego being deleted by apex’s so easily since it’s a sub apex itself

Though the balancing leaves much to be desired

[steep gazelle]

Make a feedback about this

The devs will probably see, Especially if there are a lot of people talking about it

[magic ermine]

Made a post

[steep gazelle]

Post in General feedback too, copy and paste there

[rigid tulip]

if quetz cant at least 1v1 a dilo im honestly done

[dusky surge]

i mean, sure i guess

i dont see quetz 1v1ing much bigger than that though without being absurd

[hidden quest]

@sullen edge it still actually makes sense to it losing dmg as the animal becomes weaker in general, an example for setgo is its tail muscles get weaker as it ages and it cant swing as hard therefore doing less damage
For trike its the same thing, neck muscles are weaker and so are its leg muscles therefore it cant drive its horns as deep doing less dmg

[sullen edge]

that was why i mentioned it might be wise to still have the degredation from muscle loss but more damage since the horns and spikes are significantly bigger and longer

[hidden quest]

For prime elder it makes sense as the animals are gettings stronger, but frail prime elder still should have less dmg
Its kinda like having a sword with (for example) 2000kg of driving force behind it, or a 20% longer sword with 1500kg of driving force, which do u expect to peirce deeper in the same material??

[sullen edge]

20% longer

its literally longer and can go deep deep

[hidden quest]

I prolly shouldve explained better hold on

Okay so on a material that the sword which is shorter but has more driving power pierces half the swords length deep into it. Or a sword thats 20% longer with the same material but less driving force
In that scenario the shorter sword with more power behind it will peirce deeper

[sullen edge]

I totally agree, prime trike is bigger then adult trike so it has more driving force for its attacks

[hidden quest]

Yea, but frail prime bc of muscle degradation n stuff would ofc be weaker

[stark ether]

Why on earth would thagomizers or horns not do less damage, as opposed to teeth, claws, or blunt force attacks?

I’m all for having something like prime elders not degrading below normal adults for gameplay reasons so there’s a reason to grind for them, but frail elders should certainly be weaker regardless of species

Take bighorn sheep in real life for example, they start to lose fights more often as they age past their prime

Their weaponry might look more impressive as they get older (their horns never stop growing), but their muscles getting weaker can’t wield the bigger weapons as well

Males eventually have to stop competing for mates because of the muscle atrophy that comes with age, despite having bigger horns

[crimson crater]

@severe blade were you fully grown?

[faint robin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/eXnhBztoLD8?si=R0f-FDRZPuAv54Xg another example of 3 rexes (1 prime, 2 7+- tons) cooking 3 trikes (1 prime, 1 not fully prime and 1 smallish) w out any difficulty
Nothing ambush-like, just going straight in and winning (big prime trike got crippled almost instantly)

Rex also easily runs circles around sparring trike

[tight cove]

@muted cipher one wrong move as a bite raptor and you die, Omni isn’t supposed to be doing that 💀

[muted cipher]

always depends on target

[wanton edge]

@sacred moat extreme agree, i've lost so many maias to falling off of cliffs/accidentally running into holes in the map at night. and it's made worse by the fact you HAVE to travel at night for water because of how fast it drains.

[coarse blaze]

@haughty grotto Can you give me a explanation as to why you disagree? It's fine to of course have your own opinion, but I am genuinely curious. #balance-feedback message

[haughty grotto]

Because I think the suggestion overlooks pinning/grappling larger-than-self creatures. Recoil damage makes sense for 1v1 pins to avoid instawin situations and create some risk for the attacker. But with your suggestion pinning a teno or a low stam dibble for example becomes impossible cause the health of the fragile pinners will deplete before the massive health bar of the multi-ton prey.
Its just weird why you want to punish a successful coordinated grapple to bring down a hard fought prey by introducing recoil damage, rather than reward it.

Every prey that's smaller than omni either: 1) fights back when you pin, or 2) has an escape mechanism in the form of tree, water, agility, or being faster

[coarse blaze]

In my defense, I did say "pin" and not "grapple" and Omniraptor's group pin is a grapple.

[haughty grotto]

So it makes sense why only troodon omni and beipi fight back and not the rest.

So your entire suggestion is basically just talking about only herra, hypsi and galli.

[coarse blaze]

I just think for a Rex to pin something like a Stego or Diablo, things with massive spikes or horns and take no DMG is very, very strange.

The same can be said for Omni pinning Galli, it's nearly the same size

But if Omni pins Omni, it takes DMG but not for Galli?

I have genuinely no issue with Omniraptor's group pin

[haughty grotto]

Galli is in a bit of a weird spot with pins, always has been. Its obvious that they created this special scenario cause they know galli has speed and if it gets caught it deserves to die. And I kinda agree - I have played galli and you need to be really terribly unaware to die to an omni.

Pin is the only way galli dies.
If you change the pin mechanic to prevent it, you will never see an omni kill a galli ever again.
Its rare as is to see omni kill galli now. Its not a broken mechanic where gallis are being oppressed by omnis. So I always found the balance complaints strange.

[coarse blaze]

I've been pinned via the tail too many times, but that's more of a game issue.

I again, have no issue with corrdinated grapples because it takes skill from the party and stamina management which is quite different to "I'm going to hit RMB and nothing else once I'm close enough" There's no risk, no real thought, nothing on their end that warrents a free kill from something around it's weight class.

I just have a hard time grappling the idea of "well this is realistic" for one playable and then not extend it to others.

Omni V Omni still works fine, despite the recoil DMG but the player actually has to be prepared for the DMG they'll be taking once they pin and I think that's fair, does that make sense?

[haughty grotto]

I think it's necessary balance.
Galli has literally nothing to fear because of its speed.
This gives galli something to watch out for.
It also creates an interesting strength vs weakness scenario. Not all dino matchups are equal. Its obvious they made galli a target for omni specifically for this purpose. Without a one shot pin, omni can never kill a galli. If you remove the oneshot pin, galli has zero ways to get killed in the isle.

[coarse blaze]

I'm using this as a counterpoint to the Galli V Omni if it had recoil

[haughty grotto]

Omni vs omni > the attacking omni will always win.
Taking recoil damage has never changed outcomes. Never has an omni been dissuaded into pinning just cause it knows it'll take recoil damage, whether it's troo or beip or another Omni. Therefore if you extend this to other pinners I don't think introducing recoil damage will change outcomes.

[coarse blaze]

I've won as the pinn-y via mutations or the attacker being already wounded plenty.

[haughty grotto]

I think just introduce bucking to the 1v1 pin that's it.
The larger the prey, the more time they can keep bucking (cause they have more hp that needs to be depleted).

[coarse blaze]

I have a clip of me dying because I pinned a Troodon of the same size and I was already slightly hurt as well.

[haughty grotto]

True, but this is a rare scenario. If you're already pretty hurt and you pin, yeah you can die from the recoil.

[coarse blaze]

Thank you for answering, and giving me your thoughts on it. I did get what I wanted from it, and I appreciate the feedback.

[hasty coyote]

it doesnt have to be all or nothing. If omni's pin had a time limit similar to rex pin, it would allow omnis to get serious damage and bleed without fully 1-shotting the galli. If the galli tries to fight still, it gets pinned again and dies. If the galli runs, it has a chance to escape before it bleeds out, but the omni can track its bleed.

[haughty grotto]

I think a time limit of like 7-8 sec or simply allowing bucking during 1v1 pin is fair

But man to be honest, if galli survives a pin, you then have a galli with full stam and omni with barely any stam. The omni is never catching it again. Even if you track, you can't keep up with a rocket

The bleed isn't significant enough to prevent the galli from running a decent distance away

.
I stand by one thing: when an omni pins and kills a galli, its the gallis complacency and unawareness that resulted in its death, not the pin. If the pin was the problem, there would be a lot more deaths. But as is, it's a rare scenario to see omni kill a galli. Omnis are not at all oppressing gallis enough to call it unbalanced.

[maiden temple]

That's the main reason I'm so torn when thinking about the pinning mechanic. You're spending all your stamina on that one attempt to kill, if it fails you might be the dinner instead

How's the bleed like right now on raptor? Last few times I fought them it wasn't really scary but I didn't fight any decent raptors lol

#balance-feedback message
I don't think raptor needs to be faster, especially since it can jump, parkour and kite efficiently to avoid what's faster than it. Stamina drain when being pounced could be fine, if the pouncers' weight is a fair % of your own. It would be exhausting to move if a fg raptor hung onto a carno/cera/teno, but it should not move at all if you're being pounced by babies

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message "the changes coming to nocturnal and photosynthetic, which will remove the speed buff, is a carpet nerf across the board for sure" little does he know that it will help many playables

[maiden temple]

Yeah finally I don't have to use it to survive lol

About the stamina issues with raptor using persistence hunting - I think trotting speed would be the best thing to address, it's too slow imho

Iirc troo has the most comfortable trotting speed, while still not feeling like it's too much

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

why am i blocked by this person lmao i dont remember ever interacting with them

anyway i was gonna say they actually made some good points outside of the "make raptor faster than dilo" thing

specifically, it gave me the idea of having it that the "stamdrain" pounce returns, but only on non-neutral pounces, or possibly just RMB pounce

a way for raptor to reduce stam consistently while also worsening its own stam, and increasing the viability of more than just neutral pounce

[crimson crater]

why do so many people bring up omni’s speed like it isn’t exceptional? oh no omni gets outrun by 4 hyperspecific playables

it’s a recurrent theme that fast animals lose out on their agility, omni however gets to be both fast and agile, pretty big advantage when you can use the A and D keys to evade anything or rely on pure speed

when it comes to its stamina i feel like people forget that it’s pack oriented, you can easily take turns and have someone cover up for you if you run low instead of dumping it all at once on your pounce with no afterthought

it’s absolutely not weak solo either, you have the ability to delete anything your weight and below, you just can’t punch up solo which isn’t a bad thing, kinda what’s expected lol

[spiral fern]

My take as Omni main with more than 1.5k hours on raptor, also hosting one of the bigger raptor pack communities on the biggest server of The Isle.

No reason to have an instant pin on Gallis, it would be just fine to ride it until low health and have the pin at that time (actually I’d prefer it)

Omni speed is fine, simply use A and D to evade is a naive perception of someone who doesn’t really know. The problem doesn’t lay on the raptor side however but rather other species horrendous hitbox / dsync. You can still manage but it’s about tempo switching to leave as little Dsync as possible for a carno to hit (for example)..

The real struggles Omni players have is the dsync/hitbox, really slow healing for being a glass-cannon that is supposed to take turns with the pack as well as stamina. Especially with the pounce-stamina-drain deactivated in the current patch. While other species like carno / cera / teno has received significant buffs in different areas both this patch and the one before.

Omnis are falling behind because of others getting better

Also the new stun-timer is absolutely 🐶 💩, I have no idea how that could get into live-branch… especially with increasing the kick-speed of tenos, deactivating the stamina drain on pounce and change so that all human-structures and rocks now knock you off into a 3sec stun.

The new trees are a great addition but I don’t like that you can be pounced on the side and not being knocked off.. back position is fine though

[thorn mountain]

why add the" also hosting one of the bigger raptor pack communities on the biggest server of The Isle." but I agree on most of the stuff

[frosty heron]

Omni is an absolute garbage and obsolete playable right now and it will more trash when Allo gets released but people doesnt wanna get Omni buffed because theyre scared to lose their roleplay Herbi to a pack of skilled raptors that are more rare to find than a Dryo player

[steep gazelle]

Omni doesn't need Buff, just Pounce fixes

Troodon too

Pounce is extremely buggy

The only thing I think he needs a buff for is decreasing the cooldown between bites

[eager saddle]

This is literally not true. You can still have a lot of succes on omni

[vagrant plover]

Troodon needs Buffs

To slow as Juvi and gets it's venom to late with 48%

[lethal shale]

omni is just fine and perfectly capable in the right hands. If anything it needs a nerf to pin, especially against players of nearly the same size

[steep gazelle]

Yes, but it also needs to have its pounce fixed

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message herbivores have it inherently easier, you have a place where you get 300% growth boost guaranteed unlike carnis

[vagrant plover]

Yes, that to

And hitbox needs to be better

[indigo rain]

Tbh; i think we cant make any judgements on omni or troodon combat until the pounce bugs are fixed, we can already see its wonky on rex and it will be wonky on allo for sure, which affects their balance too

[vagrant plover]

Die often to stuff that wer like 1m besids me

[spiral fern]

Don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t. It means I get a lot of input from many raptor players. 🙂

[crimson crater]

is this the leader of the infamous rage pack

[spiral fern]

What is the infamous rage pack called? 😆 I don’t think this is us lol

[lethal shale]

its called rage pack, literally lol

they once had a whole ass rave type deal where a buunch of members were hanging out in a bar and cheering when a member from their pack livestreaming skillfully pinned a rival member from another 'rival' pack

[crimson crater]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-my-reaction-to-that-information-angry-reaction-wolf-reaction-gif-27080186

[spiral fern]

Lol.. no idea who they are, nor seen them on petit. Most likely they’ve been banned unless they played somewhere else..

[lethal shale]

Zooming islander im p sure

[spiral fern]

That type of players will never get in our pack… or be long lived on petit at least.

Tbh they should do something against raptor on raptor pins too. Just like they should remove insta pin on galli imo.

[eager saddle]

To be fair I think the pin on galli is fair. It’s extremely fast and outruns an omni (not counting elder stuff) so the only way it will get caught if it was either low on stam to start or gets ambushed

[maiden temple]

That's the only way you'll get to kill one really, the only other scenario I can imagine is hunting one with a broken leg (which you cannot inflict yourself so opportunistic kill)

It's exciting to find one unaware

[calm trellis]

Is unlocking canni on omni broken?

[thorn mountain]

no

[dusky surge]

@vital geode raptor can't pin things larger than it UNLESS they're galli lmao

or other raptors, hypsis and troodons iirc

[vital geode]

yeah that's what i meant sorry i should have been clearer xD

any other things i should add/remove?

[dusky surge]

uh devlog confirmed the fact that rex will no longer be able to pin things larger than it

[vital geode]

ah ok ty :D

[eager saddle]

I got pinged but the message was removed 🙁

[junior wagon]

#balance-feedback message

Carno needs that buff, considering how many buffs they gave cera carno's headbutt spam is perfectly balanced and that's coming from someone who has died multiple times to carno headbutt spam lol

I didn't like it at first, but I realized how weak the vanilla carno is if they were to keep it the same and bring that to hordetest.

[junior wagon]

@thorn mountain you don't like deinos why would you not want to give it a pin mechanic?

[thorn mountain]

ok buddy

I dont like overpacking. I would be fine with 2 deinos just not 3+

[junior wagon]

the suggestion is not overpacking bro, it's a pin mechanic. They probably won't raise bite force, but 2 13.5 ton deinos should be able to drag down a prime rex....

[thorn mountain]

I must have read wrong

[junior wagon]

Im generally against megapacking or mixpacking, but current state of hordetest is horrible cause of cheaters and that is the only way to counter them. Fire vs fire, it's not ideal but thats the current state.

But my original point is 2 deinos should be more of a force in the water when rex is swimming, currently we can only give him love nibbles and most of the time the rex is unbothered.

I want to understand why the other two are against some form of pin attack for croc, they just downvote but no feedback...

[slim dragon]

That's not solving something that isn't even an issue

You complain that there is 1 out of the 20-ish playables you cannot kill (well you cannot kill trike either but you didn't mention it) but increasing deino's killing power won't allow you to kill more rexes

You could give deino 500000 biteforce when in water and you still wouldn't be killing rexes or trikes

Because they would simply avoid deino like everyone else does

Deino's problem was never its killing potential, which is already absurdly high
It's the core of its gameplay

[crimson crater]

it’s kill potential isn’t that good relative to its own weight tbf, but that dosen’t matter when it’s bigger than 90% of the roster

[slim dragon]

It used to be before rex was added

[junior wagon]

They don't avoid deinos actually, they be fighting them in water too cause they barely take damage from us.

[junior wagon]

Im not asking or suggesting for anything outlandish like 500k bite force cause that is stupid. A pin mechanic would make croc combat enjoyable and not just have to bite against bigger targets, it would actually diversify crocs fighting abilities which currently is just bite or lunge.

Normally, rexes and trikes do avoid water but there is a handful that decide they can fight and they can effectively while even in the water Deino is not capable of doing much damage or even be considered a threat to the rex or trike for that matter.

[slim dragon]

And if deinos can kill them they'll avoid them

The only reason they go into water is because they know they can

[junior wagon]

But we can't thats the whole point, prime deino's bite force is so weak we cant even one shot a pig lol

[slim dragon]

It'd still just be bite or lunge lol
But you'd kill larger things

[junior wagon]

It would be a struggle with a pin mechanic, if rex has stamina he should win(same with trike), but if rex is low stamina or injured he should be dragged down with pin mechanic.

Similarly to raptor/rex's pin but with it being overhauled to fit deino and ofc balancing to not make it overly powerful.

Crocs in real life are only scared of bigger creatures, such as hippos or elephants all of which tower over a croc in size and weight.

[hasty coyote]

@olive meteor while I agree with the issue, it’s highly ironic to complain about an insta death button as a deino lmao.

[olive meteor]

hardly
deino kind of needs to survive with the lunge, it's the only way it can guarantee a kill with most things

deino is an ambush predator

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, same things can be said about Rex

[olive meteor]

🥀 it's different when deino is semi aquatic and its whole purpose is to be in the water. its whole purpose is to make people wary of drinking from open rivers and such. it can't go on land, run at you, and instak ill you with lunge

[stark ether]

I’m fine with Rex being able to pin deino like jaguars hunting caiman, but not with the current weight scaling and not without receiving damage like raptor vs beipi pounces

Heck, I still think Beipi should have a better chance when pinned than it does atm.

It just goes double for Rex pinning things like stego and deino.

If a Rex pins a stego from the front, then sure, no damage.

Or a deino from behind.

But if the stego or deino struggle animation has it biting/swinging into the Rex’s hitbox, it should be taking some kind of damage

[olive meteor]

it can jump at you from the water, and then it needs to drown you. you still have a chance at getting away if the deino misclicks or they run out of stamina to hold you
rex can deal fracture (from what i can tell?) at any stage. it can also use crush at any stage. currently it really requires 0 skill. rex doesn't even need to ambush right now because it can walk up to u, hold right click, and ur good as dead

deino is balanced by being slow on land, so it's not like i can kill anything i see by being able to run up to them and hold right click and they just have to accept their fate. rex probably is an ambush predator (hence yk, the ambush ability) but that's kind of messed up right now because it lasts for longer than it should and overall rex is just op

i dont mind rex being able to crush deino... it's not that! one time me and another deino got ambushed by a rex and i wasn't even mad about it because it made sense. they were a whole lot bigger than me.
this however was a rex that was like two times smaller than me, and they were still able to just hold right click and then hit me in the head and i died

sorry for the yapathon i like debates

[stark ether]

Deino’s entire niche and gimmick is water ambushes, it has nothing else. I’m ok with it having its grab as is.

Rex is a pursuit hunter throughout most of its life, and an endurance/ambush/corpse bully as an adult. Rex has so many more routes to go down gameplay wise, it doesn’t need a 0 skill pin as well.

[olive meteor]

^ this guy gets it
i understand rex is an apex but i dont think that warrants it getting this cracked pin that it can use at any time with any creature; not even deino can do that unless you're in the water, and that still excludes trike and rex ofc

also does anyone know why deino got a weird weight nerf when it's growing? like it suddenly packs on the pounds when it's at like... 60%

[viscid mica]

Literally give Rex pin the same/similar math requirements as deino grab and it solves a whole world of balancing problems

[olive meteor]

^

[steep gazelle]

For the Fracture to occur it would also be good to have this math

[viscid mica]

Shouldn’t fracture if it can’t pin

[steep gazelle]

It will make the fight between Rex and Things larger than 5t much fairer, as well as making Rex have to use other abilities instead of just the crush

[steep gazelle]

Yes, that's it

[olive meteor]

this is just an idea but i think it'd be nice if the possibility of it dealing fracture used similar math like what determines if cerato makes u vomit or not
like the smaller u are the more likely you'll get a fracture of some kind

like it's less likely to a trike for example but still possible

[haughty grotto]

@olive meteor while I agree with you, and btw they already announced they're nerfing rex crush, that situation is really of your own doing. What in the world are you doing on land in the middle of so many rexes there? You put yourself in a really dangerous situation.

[olive meteor]

i was near starving and there was food nearby
went to it, only saw a few baby rexes so i didnt care much about them, and i was ab to walk off when the bigger one came by

man. i wouldnt have gone if i knew a rex that can barely wrap its jaws around my leg can just hold crush and kill me

honestly just think about the situation in ur own pov, ur a 55% deino, near starving and finally get a bite of food and ur otw back to water when u see a slightly bigger rex, but you’re a decent size bigger than them
naturally u wont think theyre much of a threat

and then they 👹👹👹👹 annd u just have to weep

[haughty grotto]

Yeah I get it, desperation drives you

I'm not justifying it tho
That crush math needs to go

[olive meteor]

yeahh i literally told myself the other day i wouldnt do that anymore because literally every time i've lost my deino on ht is because i went inland for food
then i did it again 🗿

my worst enemy is lowk myself

js hard to hunt or even get an understanding of deino weight now because it looks bigger than it weighs for some reason

[viscid mica]

Dam

So far every time I’ve died on Rex once I’ve gotten past 1 ton has been to blatant ESPers the same group actually same 3 people with their huge group of white Rex’s, and any other apex they grow for each-other while all blatantly esping and trying to act all friendly 😂

[maiden temple]

My dryo made it to 100% with frail elder, the speed makes me wanna cri

[viscid mica]

Oh lord

[edgy moon]

#balance-feedback message Working as intended.

[eager saddle]

To be fair, it’s impossible to escape another deino around that %. You’re not faster on land anymore, you can’t outswim it unless you have speed muts (and even then it’s likely the other guy has it too), you deal way less damage than a fg and have way less health.

[maiden temple]

Cannibalism keeps the population in check, but smaller stages should be able to escape something they cannot fight off

Small deinos being faster on land was a very good way to keep it balanced, and they provided food for land dwellers if they didn't hide

It was actually fun to play a speedier deino too

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
i like how rather than asking for a nerf man just wants it gone

[slim dragon]

Also the numbers are wrong
I know they're exaggerating but a 0.01% rex is a newborn (not freshspawned) and pretty much incapable of fighting, and a 100% omni isn't prime, it's a frail elder

[eager saddle]

Negotiating is an art

[haughty grotto]

@distant anvil that doesn't look right. Idk what your settings are.
My dilo night vision is a literal flashbang. Bright as day.

In fact that's what my night vision off looks like

[distant anvil]

Well this concerning I was on Hordetest Branch you playing on that branch as well? Maybe I do have some messed up setting...

[haughty grotto]

Unless you chose to take a picture at a very convenient dawn/dusk moment.
There are two points in the day lasting a couple minutes where vision for everyone goes super dark.

Is it still super dark now, 5 mins later?

[distant anvil]

I'm very aware of that moment since I play Dilo a ton and it wasn't during that time.

[haughty grotto]

Yeah hordetest night vision is even better and cleaner than evrima

[distant anvil]

Well then it must be some setting I got messed up then...

[haughty grotto]

All settings reset on the HT branch, make sure they match your evrima settings

[distant anvil]

Good to know I've been playing on super hard mode LOL

[haughty grotto]

Esp lumen, make sure it's on

[rancid ridge]

is fg stego being able to run down a sub rex (because of its horrible stam) an intentional balance decision? i wouldnt be surprised at this point

[dusky surge]

@waxen lance i know you're posting for a friend but just let the know their stego rebalance is really interesting and well thought out lmao

big fan of the stance and the improved stam efficiency

[waxen lance]

will do!

[tardy wind]

Thank you! I came up with it, definitely spent way more time on it than I should have XD

Glad to hear it's liked so far though! Really appreciate it

[dusky surge]

yea, stego needs changes soon too, it's just struggling so badly against these new additions, especially rex

at least with trike it could walk away lol

[tardy wind]

Yeah it's kind of absurd, especially considering the fact that Power Swing was added with the intent of letting stego compete with rex

And it barely even does that

[dusky surge]

Lmao it just cuts through your stam and makes it impossible to flee

If you don’t perfectly land every hit the fight is already lost

[tardy wind]

It's insane how trike uses next to no stamina for it's attacks (and still does crazy damage) While stego is stuck using 10% stamina per swing on it's only useful attack.

It wouldn't be as bad if it had other options in a fight, but it's just stuck in a really bad spot

It's like a worse version of Pachy's kit problems

[dusky surge]

Yea but at least pachy on HT feels way better thanks to weight buffs

Sub pachy is so good now lol

[keen plover]

Stegosaurid moving swing 👍

[tardy wind]

Yeah it's defininitely so much better with the buffs but it still has a really bland kit. A useless left click, an alt attack that's only rarely useful and a solid right click that kinda has messy hit reg.

[dusky surge]

God please

It’d be so nice to get things to stop chasing

[tardy wind]

Seems so simple as well 😭

Like, why can it not do that hahah

[amber wharf]

carno gets audible footsteps at second mut which is about 50%. But it is kinda crazy how silent they are until that point. 🥴

[crimson crater]

footstep sounds scales with growth percentage and not weight unfortunately, iirc they’re going to change that as mentioned in the devblogs

[maiden temple]

That would be such a nice QoL, I hate my teno being loud so early

[sonic flame]

Primarily, I’d imagine it’s an issue with animations

Namely, with how current moving animations are set up, doing a moving tail swing would only animate the tail. That robs the animation of a lot of its power, which could be a problem to have an attack that visually has little impact but statistically does significant damage

[vale brook]

this is why i think stegosaurus should have a "panic and flee" attack option thats mainly CC focused, where it runs and swings its tail side to side with some force

nothing too coordinated, mostly a last ditch effort to create distance from threats

[sonic flame]

The issue is movement plus attack either robs it of its force or requires a Maia-esque animation that has movement baked in

[vale brook]

limit stego turning while using the attack

[maiden temple]

Make it slow but add a stability % bonus while held/used/animation lasts = less opressive, more defensive and still good

Actually, that's a better thing to add to power swing nvm

[frosty heron]

Some people rooftops aint working if someone is asking to buff Stego , unistall the game if you cannot accept losing your 6H playable to a 12H one

[dusky surge]

so should rex instantly die when cama sees it because cama took longer to grow?

cama should be faster and stronger than rex obviously cuz it took longer

unless, of course, that's really silly and not a good way to balance out the roster at all

a hypsi takes less than an hour yet still has the tools to survive the entire roster

[frosty heron]

In case Cama will take longer , it will probably 1 touch and kill a Rex instantly with a CC if that attack lands , that animal weights 20 tons+ , and if took person 16 hours to get there is completely fine

[dusky surge]

yes but the rex has the tools to avoid that

so overall it's balanced out by that metric

stego is slower than rex thanks to murdersprint, has a worse trot than rex, can get pinned by rex, can get fractured by rex, can get flipped by rex

this is the fundamental issue with stego. it doesn't have the tools to consistently not get ripped apart by rex. rex has the tools to not get flattened by cama

stego doesn't have the damage needed to scare off a rex either, despite not having the tools to escape one consistently

its damage is good against midtiers, but certainly not against apex creatures that can flip and pin it with ease

[frosty heron]

Stego has the tools to avoid the Rex , if a Rex ambushes you and its bigger then youre in a disvantage because thats how is Rex is supposed to be played , if the Rex fails the ambush you outstam it by a good margin and also theres stages where Stego turns to be faster than Rex

You cannot pretend to win if you got ambushed by a bigger Rex , had you even saw the amount of stamina it takes out from a full murder sprint?

Also not taking into account crush is gonna be nerfed

[dusky surge]

not enough to really matter. rex can trot up to you and then murdersprint you down as you waste your stam trying to run

[frosty heron]

So probably no more winning on Prime Stegos

[dusky surge]

against larger creatures, sure. a stego shouldn't need to be prime to be considered having a chance against a standard adult

otherwise adult stego isn't really "adult"

adult is the phase of life you should typically be capable of surviving any and all threats. This is the typical balance philosophy for all creatures. It's juvi/sub that tend to have the most inconsistencies when it comes to surviving threats, but adult is where your kit ties together

if adult stego is incapable of effectively surviving these threats, it's not really adult to the same metric as everything else

[frosty heron]

Completely false , Stego has the best DPS in the game as currently is just losing to Rex because fractures negates the powerswing

[dusky surge]

then reduce the stamcost on powerswing as a buff, since it's been absurdly high for far too long, and it allows stego to be able to attack AND flee, rather than having to overcommit to one

no other creature has such an absurdly high stamcost on any move

besides hypsi fully charged jump, but hypsi gets instant stam refunds to compensate

[frosty heron]

Omni pounce , you destroy an entire stamina bar on any playable bigger than 2 tons for 10% bloodpool

[dusky surge]

not comparable, since that's the prolonged use, not the activation cost

you can still whiff it safely without melting your stam and it's up to you how you control the stam once pounced

[frosty heron]

Talking about Stego , nobody seems to care its currently CCing targets bigger than it with the Powerswing

[dusky surge]

i mean, it's supposed to with the running swing

the powerswing was added for exactly that purpose

[frosty heron]

Also the point with Stego is not missing , or missing the very less as possible , I keep finding Stegos that do automatic powerswing to anything that jukes them out

[dusky surge]

stego really shouldn't be so punished for it though, it's bizarre that stego of all animals is punished so heavily for missing

[frosty heron]

Wanna remove pins and grapples? Fine , remove herbie knockdowns

[dusky surge]

especially as an animal that is meant to use that stamina to escape threats, as you pointed out earlier

[dusky surge]

carnis also have knockdowns though

and they aren't comparable

[frosty heron]

Remove them

[dusky surge]

why?

[frosty heron]

Because as currently knockdown means you died to 1 mistake with pretty much all playables

[dusky surge]

knockdowns you recover from in a few seconds and have stun immunity afterwards

pins you can get pinned to death and there's absolutely nothing stopping you from getting pinned/grappled again and again

knockdowns are far more forgiving

[frosty heron]

Its the same thing that people complains about with the goddman pins

[dusky surge]

eh not really

pins are knockdowns but way worse for anyone suffering them

[frosty heron]

Fake , false , knockdown takes ages to recover and you have enought time to land as any herbie with them besides Maia , 2 of your most powerfull attack or rather any ceratopsian thrash attack and I can show you that when the HT comes out on the live branch

Teno 2 kicks , Stego gets guaranteed 2 Powerswings , Dibble can even combo you to death

[dusky surge]

i mean in the case of ceratopsians that's quite literally what their kit is built around with thrash

also frankly i dont agree with removing pins, i just think there should be more interaction with them

since knockdowns also tend to be far more easy to avoid than pin moves

[frosty heron]

So now Ceratopsians are build around that , but Rex isnt built to ambush and catch? I dont get it

[dusky surge]

never said that rex wasn't built to ambush and catch

[frosty heron]

Fine , let me interact with the Trike that just knocked me over from a tail hit and let me escape the guaranteed thrash im about to take and send my playable to oblivion , then start to agree to that

A 4 Ton Trike is very capable to yoink Ceratos tail and gore them out in agony while you cannot move for whole 3 seconds , in 1 mistake

Sure thing make pins more less a button to win , but something has be done with knockdowns in consecuence , globaly , all playables

[dusky surge]

they already did that ironically

in a prior update they not only globally nerfed every knockdown time, they also nerfed many animals stuns and knockdown abilities

never did the same for pins

[frosty heron]

Nerfed? So what they changed it from 3.2 seconds to 3? I dont feel they were nerfed enought , you still die in 1 mistake if the herbie player has the screen turned on

Rex even gets bite + crush combo from a knockdown

What they should do is make the less big playables to wake up faster and not instadying to 1 mistake , specially if your reason to exist is to outmanouver and be agile/fast

[steep gazelle]

I agree with that. Smaller playables like Omni, Carno, Teno, and Troodon shouldn't take forever to recover from a knockdown

Of course, Pin also needs a huge nerf/rework.

Mainly in Rex, as it can also cause fractures

[maiden temple]

That's not how balance works, just because someone took 12h to grow doesn't mean I'm a free dinner plate because mine took 6, that just makes people not pick that playable again.

You can either run away from something OR fight back effectively, anything that doesn't align with this is not balanced and not fun

[dusky surge]

Yea, exactly this. Stego falls in the “food” territory, so it needs buffs to not be that lmao. Doesn’t matter how long the competition took, stego shouldn’t be free

[maiden temple]

Balance is such a frail thing

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
Giving a bunch of randos admin powers must be the silliest idea ever

[hasty coyote]

@analog mirage I agree with all but that last aspect, mainly because it could suddenly completely throw a fight once they start getting low because you suddenly can't pounce the target anymore since you can ONLY hit them from behind. I'd rather make it so that changing slots will not activate the pin, since thats an omni-only mechanic anyway.

[analog mirage]

That’s fair

[eager saddle]

that and the fact that the first part is just ''make me able to spawn near a hotspot again''. You know, they thing they wanted to fix....

[safe steeple]

#balance-feedback message that rex has been growing for 3-4 hours based off his patterns

[haughty grotto]

@pale bolt what hacker? Looks fine to me

[pale bolt]

U can see the white elder rex sliding

And later on idk if it was the same one but another white rex killed my friend who was in a bush

[haughty grotto]

He's prime, they have very fast trots, I don't see any hack-sliding

[pale bolt]

U can clearly see the sliding

[haughty grotto]

I get it, it's frustrating to die, but if everyone complains and blames hacking or bugs when they die even when it's just normal gameplay, we aren't gonna get anywhere

I see a couple frames of desync / lag on your end which is probably what you think is him sliding

[pale bolt]

Dude elder rex doesnt slide like that when walking, when i was elder rex that doesnt happen

And every white rex ive encountered has esp

He told me how he died cuz i ran away, he ran away he hid and just got insta found

[haughty grotto]

Yeah there are esp hacks going around. I can't talk about something I didn't see.
I'm just speaking solely about the video - I don't see any hacking there

[pale bolt]

I couldnt clio enough of it neither did he but im going based on what happened from his pov

Cuz aint no way he can just guess where he went, crushed a random bush and wow he caughtt him

[rigid tulip]

#balance-feedback message

Is pinning seriously planned for more than just allosaurus in the future?

I know allo is already ruined but cmon man leave the rest of the roster alone

I genuinely thought omni grapple was a joke at first man

[wise obsidian]

Stego shouldn't be buffed because another stronger playable is broken, it just makes it worse for the rest of the roster that is below its weight class. Rex just needs tuning right now tbh, people know it's OP and hopefully we get good nerfs as devblog talked about
This will also directly lead to powercreep

[steep gazelle]

Most will probably have pin

Which is not a good thing

[next meadow]

why prime cera has 300kg more and 30bf less than normal cera

[wise obsidian]

Because you're not at your peak stats anymore

[next meadow]

yy but the rest deinos keeping almost same bf but not that too much

i said almost not exactly, cera loses too much

[hasty coyote]

acro was shown choking things out in its concept, if thats still the case, then its gonna have the exact same problems of pin.

[hasty coyote]

most dinos lose as much as cera, deino is one of the few that don't

[crystal stream]

As much as I love Carno these new Carnos are so damn brain dead

New as in updated version not players lol

[rigid tulip]

Wonderful

[dusky surge]

stego does need buffs tho, the rex nerfs won't change how screwed it is

i dont understand why rex getting nerfed undermines the fact that stego is just not to the same level as other playables. Its powerswing stam is still inexcusable given every other attack in the game, and even nerfed rex will still walk all over it since the nerfs are only targeted at rexes punchup, which doesn't really matter since stego is still much smaller than it

more apex releases will continue to highlight stego's state as just "not that good". It was only good because the rest of the ecosystem was small, but it hasn't been set up for apexes and is falling behind

[dusky surge]

yea not hyped for acro either lmao

[edgy moon]

#balance-feedback message Don't you think that giving Ptera a weight buff would be treating the symptoms as all the interactions you use as examples are problematic on account of the pin mechanic?

[worn sentinel]

Yeah agreed the current pinning mechanic isn’t very fun to play against on either end, acros my favourite carnivore and I’ll be really disappointed if it ends up with a “I click a button, I win” ability

If they really want to keep the one shot “pin to win” with the acro, at the very least it should be a choke like shown in its concept where you actually have to grab something’s neck instead of getting their tail and holding down their entire body

[wise obsidian]

You mean power swing takes too much stam to use?

[dusky surge]

yes absolutely

[wise obsidian]

Yea i agree

Played stego a few times, i think it's 3 before you go under 60

[dusky surge]

it's 10% for standing and 15% for running

it's insanely overcosted

no other attack comes close to it

[wise obsidian]

It is pretty powerful in exchange ig but it makes it hard to fight against rex

I dont feel like it's meant to run from the fight though

So you gotta commit

[wise obsidian]

Didn't know that, thought it was always 15

[dusky surge]

compared to crush, thrash, and other, far more powerful abilities, it really isn't even that strong

[dusky surge]

i mean given the fact that it can't really do either running or fighting, that really doesn't work

[frosty heron]

Lets imagine Stego gets buffed and instead taking 10% of a powerswing , it takes 5% , that means you can miss 8 powerswings before reaching the 60% trot regen threesold and many more before you actually run out of stam , probably around 30 , if you missed that many attacks you just unistall or play something else , youre playing wrong.

[dusky surge]

rex takes 4% to crush. it can miss 10 crushes before needing to trot, and 25 crushes in total. lmao

i dont even get the argument here

[slim dragon]

Herbivores getting out of stam = how it should be, carnivores should be rewarded for baiting their opponent and running out of stam should be a constant threat

Carnivores running out of stam = illogical and unrealistic, they are predators who REQUIRE stamina to hunt, it makes no sense that their main form of attacking punishes them with stamina loss, my morbidly obese grandma who died 150 years ago has better stamina than them

[dusky surge]

so true

[maiden temple]

Every carni has a basic bite attack that uses no stam, they always win low stam encounters. If you wanna rage - rage at tactile

Herbis used to require more planning and stam management before it was a thing

[slim dragon]

You don't get to tell me what I should rightfully be angry at if you can't 1v2 rexes with a solo utah on legacy

[maiden temple]

Carnivores that are low on stam simply should not continue the hunt.
I didn't play legacy after seeing my rex bite people with its ass, made it to 10h gameplay before I said ew (2k hours purely on evrima though, it slaps)

[hasty coyote]

Most dinos can miss more or infinitely more, so I don’t see an issue if stego is the same as them. Like trike only has a stam cost on alts and spar attacks after using up all charges, and those costs are minor. Yet it’s thrash deals MUCH more than stego’s power swings and has 0 cost other than end lag.

It really feels like stego deals with double standards since it has had these weaknesses for so long. It didn’t matter before when stego was the biggest thing around, but it ain’t anymore.

[dusky surge]

with the stam system we have, we can't have these huge stam cost moves unless the niche of the dinosaur ABSOLUTELY demands that cost

and i cant imagine what animal that'd be

[slim dragon]

I'm starting to think maybe the stam system should be reworked in some way

But it would necessarily imply making it more complex, which isn't really a good thing

[hasty coyote]

If running power swing knocked down rex, I could see them balancing the stam costs like this, if not more.

[dusky surge]

i mean, not even imho

i dont think 15% is even worth that lmao

[viscid mica]

15% is for 2050 damage seems pretty fair?

That’s on a none prime at that

[dusky surge]

eh, no not really

trike can do like, what, 4000 for free?

[hasty coyote]

Until you see Rex do more on a 4% but it also fractures and stuns and pins

[dusky surge]

^

[viscid mica]

If you consider animation locking for 5 seconds “free”

[hasty coyote]

6000 on knocked down targets too iirc

[viscid mica]

That’s a good point

But I feel like that’s more a Rex problem than a stego problem

[dusky surge]

well, that's the downside, yes

stego's downside for its core move is still too great though

[viscid mica]

That is also true stego costs an insane amount of stam for its only attack

But the same time it’s only attack does enough damage to effectively 1 tap a prime cera

[maiden temple]

15% is a ton of stam in a fight, it's better to modify the movement/agility instead of stam costs imo

[viscid mica]

So it’s both a good and bad thing

[dusky surge]

ehhh i mean

to me that's really not that impressive

[viscid mica]

For a large none apex it’s pretty impressive

But I can see y’all’s point stegos stam cost compared to the others is significant

What if they made stegos tail hit do extra HS damage?

So it specifically does more than just the base headshot multiplier

[maiden temple]

It doesn't need more damage imo - it hits very fast

I'd prefer the entire move to be made defensive, give it a siege stance, make it slower when it's charged and give it a stability bonus

Cera treatment if you will

[viscid mica]

I would like to add that atm Rex is extremely overtuned as well so the matchup might change once the devs eventually push a balancing update

[hasty coyote]

Trike can kill or die to a Rex while spending 0 stam. Rex can burn 16% of its stam on attacks to kill a stego or 16% to fracture a trike (which is an insta win) and then another like 30% to kill (mostly due to pin). Meanwhile stego has to burn 60% of its stam pool to kill a Rex.

[viscid mica]

Op and still getting buffed

Hmmm I see your point

[maiden temple]

This is pushing it more into a defense-only playable, instead of sprinting around with the tail up lol

[viscid mica]

Sorry I get your point I had to just roast cera cuz f cera

[maiden temple]

Oh xD

I missed that completely

[viscid mica]

Your good I’m still in shock they gave cera a weigh up without even addressing the charge changes that made it even stronger

I mean me and my duo have been bullying upwards of 4 ton Rex’s with just 2 prime ceras

[maiden temple]

We don't talk about cera around these parts, mortal enemy and all that. Corpse bully but your living dino is the corpse

[viscid mica]

Yup

Ceras are the black ops of Rex HT

[maiden temple]

hahah

I miss the old stego, even though it was bland in comparison. Timing the tail and predicting where my enemy will be in a second was very rewarding. Open field canni fights were thrilling too, I could handle pairs by the end of spiro

I still use tail only for smaller stuff but canni fights are just.. bleh

It's a strong move but it made it boring for me ;_;

[hasty coyote]

I don’t think that would help much. The main issue is that a Rex has a pretty large range where it can catch a stego off ambush and it can walk down stego with its good trot. Meanwhile the stego is forced to stay above 60% or it can’t regen stam and physically won’t have the stam to kill a Rex. So stego is pretty much forced to fight.

At the same time, if the stego does fight, it’s at a severe disadvantage. If the Rex is more than 1.25x the size of the stego (which it will be assuming equal growth) then stego can’t stun it but the Rex stuns the stego. Even with the stun, you have to hit the timing perfectly, too late and you get hit with a crush (either due to latency or because you just went way too late), too early and now the Rex can crush you AND you lost 1 of your 4 misses.

Imo, buff stego’s cc threshold on headshot to barely stun a prime Rex, but have the increased threshold not apply to those with reduced headshot damage (like ceratopsians). Then either buff stego’s weight or nerf prime Rex so that it doesn’t get pinned instantly. Lastly reduce the stam cost on power swing. Now stego can just hit, stun, and run. But if it plays too aggressive, it won’t be able to get its cc and will get bodied by the Rex.

[maiden temple]

I'm so not looking forward to fighting any rexes on my stego.. So far I've only had to fight a single trike and I barely survived that

[viscid mica]

Tbf they should also just change Rex pin math or adjust the trot speeds accordingly

Stego is imo atm barely playable

You functionally need to have double if not triple the game sense and skill to beat a Rex

[maiden temple]

Rex will definitely change quite a bit

[viscid mica]

ATM you have to either get the first hit or counter hit right before their crush throws out and if you mess up even once you immediately lose

[maiden temple]

lol I'm definitely gonna mess up

Stress swing

[viscid mica]

I grew 2 stegos and lost both to Rex’s that I objectively think after playing Rex were bad but the difference in power was just too deep

Ignoring the 1 death at 3 tons to a 3 ton Rex cuz bro made 0 noise

[maiden temple]

I entombed once, so I'm a bit tankier now but I think I'm gonna get wrecked quick

[viscid mica]

Rex footstep audio should be studied it’s so quiet

Fun fact murder sprint is quieter than default walk

[maiden temple]

Oh no it's the silent carno all over again

[viscid mica]

Naaaa you’ll be fine…. (The white canni mixpacking super pack of hackers has entered the chat)

[viscid mica]

That but they can unironically 1 tap 80% of the roaster

[maiden temple]

Yeah but those are just unavoidable and my skill doesn't matter, I only care about the fights I could have won

[viscid mica]

Me too

[maiden temple]

My last teno died to another cheating cera that could snipe from afar

Suddenly you make hurt noise and your stomach is becoming colourful, ah great

[viscid mica]

We’ve died to them plenty and we always laugh cuz it’s like they try so hard to act cool and it’s like brother the last thing yall are is cool you cheat in a Dino video game if that doesn’t scream ragin V card I don’t know what does

[viscid mica]

Real

[maiden temple]

I don't think they can survive the isle.. That's a big skissue

[viscid mica]

Of everything the most common hack is esp and that movement one where they can drift and stuff watching a Rex juvi 360 drift crush you is a mood

OH AND THAT NEW ONE WERE THE DEINO WENT INVISIBLE WHICH WE COULD STILL HESR CHASING US

Nightmare fuel

[maiden temple]

Yeah I see this often, tail slam a carno and he starts drifting around you, always facing you but still going at speeds

[maiden temple]

Nah that's a very old one, my very first stego died to an invisible deino

That was some serious years ago too

[viscid mica]

Ya but now imagine your a 4 ton Rex and it’s a prime deino that poofs right before you but you still hear it walking towards you

[maiden temple]

So lame

How long does rex take to grow assuming you can keep perfect diet most of the time?

[viscid mica]

12-14 ish hours

On average

[maiden temple]

That's not bad, I thought it would be longer

[viscid mica]

There are 5 major mile stones imo

[hasty coyote]

Main issue is that prime Rex is over 2x the size of regular stego, so if they make the pin like 1/3rd of the weight that could work, but I doubt they will.

[viscid mica]

1 getting to 80kg 2 getting to 500kg 3 getting to 3 tons 4 getting to 6 tons and last obviously adulting

[viscid mica]

Tbf just adjust the trot speed so they are either equal or Rex is abit slower

[maiden temple]

Getting to 500kg is the best one for most playables, yees finally raptors are not my biggest nightmare

[viscid mica]

Well for Rex it’s cuz you run at like 58 kmph

[hasty coyote]

Perhaps, still leaves stego with the 30 meter instant death range though, even more with prime Rex

[viscid mica]

You become the nightmare

[viscid mica]

And tbf if you let a Rex get within 30m of you, you are your own worst enemy

Unless your a prime steg

Than pop off king show them what real fear is

[maiden temple]

Stego is painfully slow trotting, I don't think rex should share this pain. I'd prefer to make stego faster instead

It's a pain to go anywhere at all

[viscid mica]

Tbh I think trot speeds as a whole need some tunning

Like carno trot is obnoxiously slow

[maiden temple]

As long as my teno stays the fastest trotter I approve

[viscid mica]

Teno trot speed is criminal

[maiden temple]

NO

It's reasonable I have 4 legs!

[hasty coyote]

Those things can easily hide with how much foliage is around. So you either sit out in the open plains (so have to run REALLY far to escape) or you have to have perfect game sense 24/7.

[viscid mica]

The fastest trotter should always be galli

[maiden temple]

Galli sprints the fastest, I think it's balanced to be slower trotting

I think maia should trot faster in quad tho

[viscid mica]

Ya that’s also true, I honestly dunno how they’d make it so that Rex isn’t just a free win against stego

[viscid mica]

Fair

[hasty coyote]

Galli has an inane trot atm, it trots at over 30kph lol

[maiden temple]

Lol damn

Time to cancel galli

[viscid mica]

I’m personally of the opinion that things that fit in the large category 5-under 8 ton range

Should have quicker trots than anything 8+

[viscid mica]

I approve of this thou galli is built for one thing and one thing only SPEED

[maiden temple]

So is carno though!

[viscid mica]

Ya but carno is thiccccccc

[maiden temple]

True true

Raptors should have the best trots out of all the carnis imo, persistence hunters simply need it

[viscid mica]

This is also true

Omni trot is a lil sad

[maiden temple]

Troo has a good trot iirc

It feels right

[hasty coyote]

They nerf Rex to oblivion (not gonna happen), buff stego to apex tier (not gonna happen), buff stego’s run speed even more (shouldn’t happen), or give stego tools to specifically deal with Rex like with power swing (prob should happen), or leave stego to Rex fodder (likely to happen)

[viscid mica]

Troo is fine on everything except it’s starting and elder sprint speed BROTHER IS SLOW AF

[maiden temple]

Have you seen my frail elder dryo speed? I wanted to cri

[viscid mica]

Ya this is true tbh they’ll just kill off the stego community

It’ll be as rare as dryos at that point cuz lord knows there always gonna be atleast 4 adult Rex’s on any given server

[viscid mica]

Tbh they need to stop playing with the speeds so much on elders

Like ya go up but I should drop below base adult speed it’s basically unplayable

Like prime elder cera at 96% is slower than a base adult dibble

[hasty coyote]

4 is an understatement

[viscid mica]

“Atleast”

[hasty coyote]

I think them going up in speed is just as harmful as going down, if not more. Like prime cera goes as fast as troodon at base.

[maiden temple]

I understand it for realism reasons, but having a bit more pvp balance wouldn't hurt. The falloff as well as gain should be minimal

[viscid mica]

This is also true

[hasty coyote]

Though I can see certain species getting a speed buff, like dryo, Galli, or carno

[viscid mica]

1-2 max

Anything more and your stepping into dangerous territory too much focus on realism not enough on the actual fun aspect

[viscid mica]

Dryo just needs buffs period that or FINISH THE DAM TUNNEL SYSTEM

[hasty coyote]

It should preferably be 0 change, we have seen even a 5% change can completely ruin certain matchups.

[maiden temple]

Yeah balance was frail to begin with

[hasty coyote]

1-2 is still enough to make Omnis outrun dilos, ceras outrun Pachies and tenos, etc. not to mention it makes primes run down adults with ease.

[viscid mica]

This is a good point

Tbf I’m all for the no touching speed gang

[maiden temple]

I'd love for my teno to be stronger at its prime, not faster

[viscid mica]

Out of everything in the isle speed is probably the biggest fight decider

[maiden temple]

Watch my prime tail slam go brr

[viscid mica]

TENO PRIME IS STRONG DO YOU SEE HOW BIG THEY GET!? Let alone the kick damage being high enough to made dibbles spit their water out

[maiden temple]

GOOD, tenos need to rule the world

[viscid mica]

Omg you haven’t played HT teno have you!?

[maiden temple]

Nah, started with a trike, stego and dryo for my limited time. I see absolutely no tenos though so that's a sign

Actually, I haven't seen many dibbles either. But there's a huge herd of maias I see every session LOL

[viscid mica]

Now’s the time, the Rex players have died out and are way down it’s a lot of carnos, ceras, dilos and omni now

I think after the 20 man Rex wiped out the hacker groups across the servers the Rex playing has chilled out cuz people have been able to actually grow

[maiden temple]

lol what a nice mission

[viscid mica]

Made a whole video of it and 80% of the video is them growing 😂

[maiden temple]

lmao

[viscid mica]

Only reason I’ve played as much Rex as I have is cuz some violent lil thang refuses to grow anything else

[maiden temple]

I'm surprised they fed themselves enough

[viscid mica]

Maia alt accounts

[maiden temple]

fair

[viscid mica]

Maias grow insanely fast so they provide great value

[viscid mica]

That and stego eggs give a FG Rex 30% food and diets

[maiden temple]

Oh that's good, valuable eggs are a fantastic idea

[hasty coyote]

thats actually insane

[viscid mica]

I can drop the video link

[maiden temple]

Egg thief troo is on my playlist

[viscid mica]

If you can get past juvi and actually find players before eldering and losing all your speed

[hasty coyote]

broodmother troodon with the new parthenogenesis is on my list

[viscid mica]

Troodon is fun but needs work with elder system they need to significantly slow its eldering process

You unironically don’t get to have any fun, as Rex juvis fighting some troos over the span of 5 minutes we watched the shrink right infront of our eyes

[maiden temple]

Smalls really struggle, especially if you have a perfect diet

[hasty coyote]

They are globally slowing elders at least

[viscid mica]

Ya but when you see how long it takes for a troo compared to a omni compared to a cera compared to a dibble compared to a Rex? It’s not even funny

Universally the elder stage should last a equal amount of time across the board

That way nothing gets majorly screwed over for simply being a quick adult grow

[maiden temple]

I'd like if it lasted as long as it took me to get to adult at least xD

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-paw-simpsons-wish-gif-22682473

All Dinos now have 5 minutes to hit prime

[viscid mica]

😆

na my monkey paw wish is Alberto to come out faster. But we all fear the copy paste of Rex

[maiden temple]

Mine would be para, the more herbis the better

[dusky surge]

i'll be real man, it probably will be that

based on Don's words

it'll be the dibble to rex's trike

[viscid mica]

I’ll take it in exchange for being objectively better in states to a Rex of equal size

So if I’m a 3.2 Alberto and there is a 3.2 Rex he better run his butt outa town

Come back when you ain’t a twink

[maiden temple]

[viscid mica]

Don’t hate the berto hate your fragility

If I gotta play a copy paste wanna atleast make the Rex mains feel it

Me who will probably spend most my time assisting lil in her Rex grows

[amber wharf]

Alberto players are going to be people who played rex on legacy and stayed fg subs instead of going to adult stage. 💀

[viscid mica]

To be fair if Alberto is a copy paste with minor changes can you even really be mad at Alberto’s for grouping with Rex’s?

[viscid mica]

I’m a legacy Alberto player which was even better than sub Rex but yes that would be me

I enjoyed the speed

[amber wharf]

I woulda played alberto but didn't want to get injected and deal with discord points.🥴

[viscid mica]

I staffed for noobz so I got basically free injects

Endless Alberto’s!

[viscid mica]

Tbf them discord points were super easy to get

[amber wharf]

I just hated being in a ton of discords i rarely touched 🥴

[viscid mica]

Fair

[frosty heron]

Do you really play the game buddy? Activation cost + draining stamina while pinning is not the same that just take out stamina and do instant 1800 dmg

Crush is just doing too much dmg on activation , also who tf misses a crush on a big target like Stego

[dusky surge]

"Draining stamina while pinning"
So my point stays that he can miss it 25 times lmao

"also who tf misses a crush on a big target like stego"
easier to hit AND cheaper to use, lmao

[frosty heron]

And that justifies the whole thing about Stego stamina drain? Seriously some people just want the game to play by itself , hope you someday just admit that you may just play the game in the wrong way , maybe we need to just be better , ive done some skill issue moments and I dont instantly come here to ask for a buff (Besides Omni , that creature is unplayable rn)

Crush is getting nerfed anyways an people will still ask for nerfs , save this line for the future

Even if it takes 20% stamina to activate it (after wasting 30% using the murder sprint) , it will be still OP for people because they lost their Sub Stego

[dusky surge]

"people want the game to play itself"

no i just want consistency. Nothing but stego has this much stamdrain, and it makes zero sense for stego to have it

[frosty heron]

It has that drain due to being the attack with most DPS in the game

You can just spam it after landing one

Besides running powerswing that imo is a useless attack

[dusky surge]

okay but its still also extremely easy to bait, and for an animal that's supposed to be defending itself or outstamming rex (quite literally its only survival strategy against one) having some of the worst combat stam in the game is a bizarre choice

i see no issue with reducing the cost other than i guess people stuck to the idea that stego is OP, even though it was dethroned ages ago

also calling omni unplayable is wild. i genuinely think it's better than stego, and i play it a LOT more than I play stego

[frosty heron]

Feels like its less OP now because Rex is in the scene , but its still the best herbie to fight a Rex off because the Prime Elder exist , its even better than Trike and thats crazy

[dusky surge]

idk i just see prime elder rexes walk all over it

the fact it NEEDS to be prime elder to stand a proper chance against adult rex is rather funny to me tho

[frosty heron]

So you admiting you want a 6H (FG Stego , 6 tons) playable be able to fight off a 12H one (FG Rex , 9.3T)

Thats actually crazy

[dusky surge]

who gives a rats ass about the time it takes

let stego run from rex for all i care

[frosty heron]

Everyone does , thats the whole reason you play a playable or another , who tf whats to be wasting time and effort on a Apex that isnt even able to kill a single Stego? Bruh

[dusky surge]

rex should obviously be able to kill stego, why do people see in such black and white

i never said, nor wanted the concept of an invincible stegosaurus that doesn't die to anything, even apexes

[frosty heron]

Quite literally all the balance post posted are against the carnivores , they just want to be killing each other and not have the proper tools to hunt , or rather ask for a pack and outnumbering like al carnivores have to be played like Hyenas

There sould be viable solo carnivores out there and rn imo only Carno and Rex are

I would agree Stego running away from Rex , if its out of the ambush zone

[dusky surge]

really? herrera, ptera, cera, troodon are all animals i find easy to solo as

[frosty heron]

All of those are juvi hunters besides Cera , and rn its on a weird spot , can´t hunt big stuff as Solo reliabily unless its a very skill issued player , Carno demolishes on sight also due to the booboo "standing in place" charge CC it has

[dusky surge]

i genuinely don't see what's wrong with hunting small things

why do people care so much about the way they survive and not the fact they do

[frosty heron]

Nothing , its just less interesting because you can either kill a small juvenile overpowering it or kill it as big one and make it harder if you find it in the right growth stage , its very unconsistent

Troodon imo only its realiable as solo for below 300 kg juveniles , herbs gain weight kinda fast , you kinda gotta camp sanctuaries , not my type of gameplay

[cobalt dagger]

WAIT did they add Parthenogenesis? I didn't know that was even planned.

I haven't been playing because honestly Rex exists and I don't wanna play the rex vs rex game, but if there's Partheno then I can raise a pack of just about anything I want if I start with a female...

[dusky surge]

next patch, they'll also be adding a sex change mutation and nerfing some of the most infamous mutations (buh bye speed muts)

[cobalt dagger]

Thank, goodness. Good bye speed muts...

Will everything have access to partheno?

[dusky surge]

i think so, as long as they're female

[cobalt dagger]

Sex change mutation sounds kinda cool too

Is it like. Picking it just changes it?

Or, you can change as much as you like by doing something specific?

[dusky surge]

i think so

[cobalt dagger]

I wonder if that means picking it will make you insta-flash into male display color or if you'll slowly acquire or loose the color

I can't imagine they'd want it to be instant

[cobalt dagger]

Where can I read the good news of this beautiful upcoming patch?

[stark knoll]

Devblog

[cobalt dagger]

Somehow I never got any announcements/I usually get something when they post a new devblog

I read it now. I'm very very happy about Partheno.

I Love nesting but finding people to nest with can be so hard, especially when you're playing an unpopular dino.

[hasty coyote]

Not yet, in devblog. It takes up a mutation slot but it’s 100% worth it for a broodmother strategy.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah I know but knowing they wanna add it still makes me very happy.

I mean yeah you could just sit around, have babies and let the babies grow up and do all the work and then be reborn (like a troo) but I plan to use it as a way to invite people to join my pack/herd, just from the character select screen instead.

It's a new way to get pack mates and herd mates and I love that, in a win-win away as now they get cool mutations and stuff from me as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will do this.

[hasty coyote]

Oh yeah definitely.

[steep gazelle]

Troodon solo can do much more than that, but it will depend a bit on lucky for desync doesn't kill you xd

[frosty heron]

Pretty much the same with Omni , what gets you killed its the pounce unreliability

Also the Prime Elder being so slow is what makes it useless

[viscid mica]

HAHAHAHA no

Well more accurately depends on how much troodon you’ve played and how good at stam management you are

Anything 2T and below is pretty easy

My max 1 time success was a full dibble but I haven’t been able to replicate it and admittedly he was mid

[frosty heron]

If you die to a single troodon as a 2t animal , honestly youre doing a lof stuff wrong

[viscid mica]

If you think so you’ve never encountered a actually good troodon

Anything less than a carno is free game and carnos only survive or win cuz of SPEEED (that and omnis but I think omnis are a exception)

[cobalt dagger]

I dunno... The de-sync argument is all I need to be convinced.

You cannot control desync.

[viscid mica]

That is also true if you don’t play on a server with a good connection Troodon is not for you

[cobalt dagger]

If you have good connection but your enemy doesn't, that's all it takes.

I've found out with some testing with a friend in another country, that isle servers favor the 'hitter.' If my raptor is frozen on your screen (because your connection is bad) and on everyone else's screen and also my own screen, I've ran miles away already... And you hit the frozen version of my raptor, then I'll take the hit - even though to myself and everyone else it looks like you are hitting me from forever away.

This is how raptors get those '10 feet away' pins. Of course, if those same raptors fought with a teno they'd then get whooped because their connection was bad and they froze up or something and the teno got them, so I doubt those raptors are desiring their bad ping.

This also happens when, ok have you ever seen it where a raptor pounces onto, say, a carno, at the same time the carno bites? And what you see, is that the pounce connects and the raptor appears on the carno's side, and then 3 seconds later it teleports, dead, into the carno's mouth?

What happens is that because the server favors the hitter, and on both their screens they landed a hit on each other, but the carno's hit was delayed because of his bad connection.

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[cobalt dagger]

Well, as a troo, I might have good connection, but if my enemy doesn't, I must fear them.

Because their ping is bad XD

[viscid mica]

I just learn to give generous spacing if I’m not actively going for a attack

[cobalt dagger]

That's why the 'fear the desync' is all I need to question why I should ever pick a fight with something that can 1 shot my troodon.

I dunno, if you read the balance feedback section long enough and people post things saying 'fix xyz hitbox' you'll see some UGLY 30-foot-away desync hits. They think they are hitbox issues but they're pretty much all desync issues.

[frosty heron]

Pretty much what happened to me as Omni recently where I pounced a SubRex on its side, I latched on him and suddenly I get desync out infront of him , guess how that ended

[viscid mica]

Oh I’ve seen em, just rarely experience them

[viscid mica]

New chew toy?

I dunno guess my desync experience has been pretty mild (maybe cuz I’m the mfer desyncing)

[frosty heron]

Like those Watermelon bubblegums indeed

[viscid mica]

@tranquil trout that’s all you gang ain’t no one missing DOT bleed

[maiden temple]

It's awful, especially on raptor for some reason. My troo is mostly fine with pounces

Meanwhile my raptor still motorbikes and/or gets teleported where the enemy can bite me for free

Just about 2 weeks ago I hunted a mid sized maia, pounced and got teleported right in front of its face instead. The game got tired of my shenanigans

[thorn mountain]

@twilit seal the flying is bugged rn

its not a nerf, just a bug

[twilit seal]

whats exactly the bugged part

the speed? stam drain?

[thorn mountain]

speed which could make the stam drain worse

[twilit seal]

@gilded horizon being sick doesnt remove the chance to get prime fyi

[gilded horizon]

@twilit seal really? ty for info

[twilit seal]

yeah i puke at the start of all lives for more diet spots

and ive never once not gotten prime on any dino

ive gotten beipi and ptera too pretty easy

[gilded horizon]

maybe i have need to long and waste time for travell

[edgy moon]

#balance-feedback message updraft currents are already in the game, they're just few & far between. There's one on the cliffs at the top of delta & another on the rocks north of the mouth of the estuary for example.

[opal plover]

yes that's the issue, too far and few and on top of mountains which if you're on the ground or trying to reach higher ground you burn all stam trying to get close to. What I'm suggesting is closer to realism where updrafts can be anywhere to help with ascending. For instance If I were on the beach and want to get to any decent place inland, I would have to stop multiple times just to regain stamina. If I spawn at the Dam Lake, my only option is to go down river since trying to get over the trees to go to North lake, or going up hill to highlands requires multiple stops for stamina very shortly after take off.
Could also be conditions for the updrafts like only in sunny clear weather; raining or storms can come with adverse conditions to flight such as slowing down or using more stamina. You even see birds in modern times that can stay in the air for long periods of time using updrafts and air currents to help them glide/ stay in the air longer. Ptera just feels like it could do with more favourable conditions to feel more enjoyable.

[edgy moon]

Updrafts only work during the day & I think only during clear weather, but not too sure on the latter. Dam Lake is the only Ptera spawn now (the reason for this change baffles me), but you do have the option to fly over the dam & travel North West around the coast to turtle beach

[opal plover]

yes, then trying to get from turtle beach to anywhere else, is a slow slog of needing multiple stops to go a few miles. That being said earlier I managed to ascend a fair amount on no stamina which was to my surprise (not sure if that was meant to happen or the rubber-banding was glitching the stamina a bit) but that did mean if I stuck a landing somewhere I would have been dead for sure, and since latch is bugged now, trying to land safely in trees is a slight issue with the ping.
I just dont want to see the ptera ending up stuck in one or two areas because the stamina forces people to essentially stay there or risk starvation trying to reach other areas because of constantly needing to stop and wait 5 mins for the stamina to regain enough to go a few more meters. It's much better to implement some kind of wind system to help with getting some lift where ever you might be on the map. The air streams are a good idea, but only if they actually work, or are accessible.

[neon willow]

Really updrafts need to be enabled during storms and night too, and not just over exposed rock. It would be reasonably realistic too - updrafts are present in almost every reasonably large storm somewhere - they're especially well organized in the most violent storms, like tropical systems and supercells, because they draw in the warm moist air powering the storm

[opal plover]

yeah that is true, though trying to fly during the night/storms even with night vision on is awful. The storm earlier it was near on pitch black with NV on, about the only time I could see was when the lightning flashes happened and then had to attempt landing on a rock and wait it out. I think it would be great to have an increase in wind just before the storm hits (not just audio) so that even if your low on stamina when the wind picks up, it kinda helps you (or hinders you) trying to get somewhere safe to ride it out until it's safe again. You ever watched seagulls trying to navigate stormy weather? It's pretty amusing seeing them trying to constantly correct themselves in the high winds and then getting a sudden updraft while trying to land and having to start again or land somewhere else.

[fallow shoal]

Why the nerf on reinforced tendons? Anyone know?

[dusky surge]

@sharp wigeon #balance-feedback message

"Consider what growing a Rex would be like if suddenly all the Dibble and Galli AI vanished. "

it apparently happened this HT and we got a bunch of elder rexes coming out of the woodworks complaining the 12.3 ton super predator is difficult to sustain all of a sudden lmao

[edgy moon]

I just don't understand how I'm meant to hunt players with my free speed boost & instant kill button. What if they fight back?

[sharp wigeon]

Indeed, I don't actually play Rex myself, except perhaps for a change of pace, and I ignored the AI Dibbles and Galli.

It would certainty make a full grown Rex scarier. Since you'd know they were true killers.

[blissful geode]

(I didn't realize I posted in balance feedback instead of balance discussion) @foggy field Ive died 3 horrible ways trying to grow a Deino, with my only motivation being to get prime and rule delta, 1st way I died was after I caught a pachy and prime Teno a cheating rex caused me to disconnect with an anti cheat error message (I'm not the only one that this has happened to) and not 2 minutes later after I rejoin I'm back at the menu screen after hitting jackpot after starving and living off of schooling fish (I was around 5.6 tons), 2nd way I died I was around 1.5 tons I think, I was getting desperate for food so I was forced to delta and I see a big Deino, the moment the dude came in my vision I ran onto land with a dash, and bro didn't even have to dash to catch me easily. 3rd way I died was me around 6 tons after catching multiple large things around east swamp and had a reallyyyy lucky grow since I was already at water access sanctuary and survived off of hell there, always a good diet too. While making my way north to north lake though for the migration zone and patrol zones.... Random rexes in the middle of nowhere and their mixpacking Cera friends find me, they had no reason to run towards a random cliff. I ended up dying to fall damage trying to escape them (I was in despair and extreme disappointment)

This was all after growing in the most random, unpopulated areas known to man too, it's a miracle I survived for that long, I stayed away from delta too, never went in the heart of it, going as far as getting the salt water mutation just so I can go from swamp to east swamp Via the ocean, I did everything right, and even though I'm not a deino main by FAR, I managed to get far by sheer luck, skill and good decision making, and when I finally survive by sheer blood sweat and tears and don't die by my own terms, game/cheaters decide "hippity hippity your Deino is now out property" and die.

[warm flax]

are they planning to do anything about the water ecosystem, elite fish are still barely existent
the lifecycle has become scavange for most of your life and cannibal all the way to the end,no ambush aspect. all you need to do is find a friend hop on VC and win ez 2 on 1

[vocal mauve]

Rip ptera, dondi a spiteful Lil b, who hurt you. Have you never felt the freedom of flying yourself that you need to ruin it for everyone? I'm honestly disappointed. "Ptera is only supposed to make nests and hunt small game" ptera is a bird and is supposed to feel free when flying, you have taken that away

[stark knoll]

@viscid mica #announcements message

[viscid mica]

Didnt fix momentum

You can gain speed but you’ll lose it almost immediately

[steep gazelle]

Watch some gameplay of him playing and you will understand these changes xd

[viscid mica]

Plus it’s hard to properly test this new update as it’s far too laggy

[viscid mica]

When ever they fix lag I’ll check again but we still lost moving attack for no real reason

It feels like quetz testing on a tiny tier

[vocal mauve]

Watched it, still dont agree with it. At all.

Dondi is obviously not a ptera main, he should stick with his land dinos and give us birds back the freedom of flying.

[elfin night]

What is your ideal (detailed) view of pteranodon in a way that it is a playable people can interact with while also being unique and engaging?

[vocal mauve]

I enjoy the new flight mechanics where when you turn it actually turns the wings, it needs to have more flight power, dive capabilities expanded on to increase the zoom zoom, better dive to upward momentum, the wings when flapping need to have more power, air flow on the downward flap needs to have much more lift

It also needs to be able to soar, current mechanics removed soaring

I would love to see the dive expanded on, I could envision right at the apex of the dive to have the choice of soaring or lifting into upward momentum with wing flapping

[steep gazelle]

I don't agree either. But watching his gameplay you can see that he's not very good at playing, maybe that's why he decided to do this with Ptera

[hazy phoenix]

Yeah, the dive is really cool and the devs did say it would feel heavy, I'm hoping with the new "must hover to peck anything heavier than you" feature that ptera does get heavier since it's outweighed by a subadult troodon rn. It's hard to gauge exactly how well it plays right now because of the rubberbanding eating stamina more than usual, but what I've gotten to experience is pretty miserable and I don't know how they expect ptera to function on the ground when it almost gets one-shot by deer and can't see very well at night (the constant storms aren't helping either)

You're safest in the air and it's just been getting harder and harder to enjoy being up there, the pecking thing feels like an attempt at forcing ptera to engage on land but I don't think borderline removing the ability to engage in the air was the best way to go about it. Hovering is slow and carries a much much higher risk of being counterattacked and killed immediately, and with stam costs you just might as well not even try...

[vocal mauve]

They dont expect people to play ptera anymore, at least that's what it feels like. This is now a pvp only game, apex preds only get love, anything fun like flight is being nerfed because they can't (or dont want to) code a way for land dinos to have defense against flying dinos, instead they nerf the only dino that felt free. It really feels like they taking away the fun, i suspect the devs were bullied by some ptera mains and now they do everything they can to prevent it from happening again.
Ptera is now hypsi
In the words of some youtube comments "all ptera should be able to do is fish and nest/raid nests" which just feels wrong.

[timber tusk]

The game does not need to be balanced so that everything can kill everything with enough skill; it just needs to be balanced so that every playable is fun in its own right, and has at least one reasonable escape/defense option.

[viscid mica]

@timber tusk W takes

[hazy phoenix]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Ptera has been getting a good bit of QoL adjustments; Spearfishing, Diving, and plans to improve its air functionality. I think the current issues with nightvision are byproducts of tweaked nightvision and lighting systems overall, and it's clear they're currently trying to find the sweet spot where it isn't too fast, too slow, or too cumbersome. These changes are frustratingly slow going, though, and after a lot of really bad tweaks I'm also not very hopeful that the next changes will be good, but we just have to trust that now that they know what isn't working and what the players find annoying/boring/bad that they'll be able to tweak ptera in ways the playerbase will be happier with overall. That's the point I see with all the testing, and I don't want to take away what they have added or changed that has been to the benefit of Ptera's overall toolkit.

The removal of options is what frustrates me a lot. Land dinos already have plenty of ways to defend themselves from Ptera; Directional attacks, thoughtful positioning, jumping, and overall skill. Running up and down a hill is basically a guarantee that you'll drain it of stam, lol. Forcing it to hover to peck larger targets hinders the possibility for more skill-based interactions, because it takes Ptera off an even playing field and into a forced disadvantage.

And Ptera isn't Hypsi, I feel a lot less miserable playing Hypsi since it can actually move freely within its intended terrain - mostly. Its climbing right now is a bit lacking.

The final comment isn't really what I glean from the developers' current direction. I feel like they want for Ptera to be more active on a terrestrial level, but this is such a heavy work in progress that Ptera's being put in a really awkward transition phase where it just kinda sucks on all fronts...

[viscid mica]

You uh, play pt on HT lately?

[hazy phoenix]

For three miserable hours

[viscid mica]

Mhm mhm

[hazy phoenix]

This is my favorite dinosaur. The current state of it is atrocious, I'm not trying to deny that, but I feel it's a bit more nuanced than "this just sucks because the devs hate ptera"

[viscid mica]

I mean tbf pt has been getting consistently nerfed beyond just changes to how its flight works for no real reason for last year or so

[vocal mauve]

I'm just feeling spiteful because its my favorite and they butchered it. It really feels like they have someone coding it that doesn't actually play it in a way that's fun. It more so feels like they are reactively making changes due to complaints or issues they found, rather than proactively making changes to it that make it feel more fun, that's why it feels like they got bullied or their team got bullied and they are reacting to that with these changes.

[viscid mica]

Feels like quetz testing on a tiny tier 😂

[hazy phoenix]

Yeah, I get your frustrations. I feel them too! It's been terrible since Gateway launched, honestly, and theyve taken... what, 2 years? To verbally acknowledge that it consumes way too much stam to go up

I've been thinking for a while on why, though, because I think ptera was perfectly balanced for Spiro

[vocal mauve]

Could easily be fixed by allowing the choice of dive ending to either soar or give it upward momentum

Imagine a wave, goes up and down, now imagine a dive where you lose altitude but gain it back with wing flapping and the use of the speed boost of the dive

[hazy phoenix]

Yeah, I think I've made a similar suggestion in the past

[cyan parrot]

Ptera would be 10x better if they just made the stamina regen super fast, like under a minute. Then you could make a bunch of short trips instead of having to fly for a couple minutes and then AFK for 5.

[viscid mica]

Jokes on you momentum doesn’t sustain anymore

[viscid mica]

Or just let players keep the momentum they gain like it used too

[vocal mauve]

This is feedback discussion, im not here because I dont know this already, im here because I am frustrated at the current state

[viscid mica]

I’m joking 😂

[trail salmon]

i just want to fly with the flying dinosaur bro for the love of god

[hazy phoenix]

The lack of conservation of momentum is probably the worst thing they've changed >_>

[timber tusk]

It would just feel a lot better if they had given Ptera all of its new kit, which they have CLEARLY been putting a lot of thought and effort into, and THEN nerf other aspects of it to balance. Instead, they needed it to become the least fun version of itself they could (without becoming unplayable) and then started patching in what feel like “fixes” to compensate.
I have full faith that the Ptera we get at the end of all of this will be a very good playable, it’s just that the way they’ve chosen to roll out its changes make it feel like they hate flyers. It’s odd.

[viscid mica]

100% the real enjoyment killer, everything else would be fine if I just didn’t lose all speed 2 seconds after diving from the stratosphere

[vocal mauve]

Again, this feels like reactive changes and not proactive changes.

[hazy phoenix]

Agreed, the way they roll out good changes with terrible ones is such... a choice 💥

[viscid mica]

[hazy phoenix]

I can travel the map faster on a fg troodon than with ptera just because of how much stam gets consumed to go up

[viscid mica]

Tbf isle players as a whole have hit a breaking point with the last patch straight up breaking the servers, rolling out a new unfinished HUD (FEAR THE CHANGE), the hackers and overall balancing issues and feeling extremely unheard by the devs

[hazy phoenix]

and the placement for thermals! It's horrible!

[viscid mica]

Real

[hazy phoenix]

90% of your stam just to reach the dang things and you have to sit there. 5 minutes to get your stam back so you can utilize them

[viscid mica]

• they significantly increased altitude bleed

[hazy phoenix]

sorry ptera mains! we know you've been complaining about how much you have to wait in order to actually play ptera, so we've decided to make it up to you by making you wait even more! 🤭

[trail salmon]

I love sitting on the ground for 5+ minutes just to fly for 30 seconds before having to sit for another 5+ minutes

[hazy phoenix]

spearfishing also makes you wait ~2 minutes

at the very least you can regen stam while using it?

[trail salmon]

I think the fishing is a little too OP. I love it bc it makes finding food less stressful especialy with horrible fish ai spawns but if being able to actually eat food makes the ptera too OP then idk how its supposed to be balanced

[hazy phoenix]

I find it's balanced ok with being unable to use it at night and making you a sitting duck for a minute, beipi and galli foraging aren't guarantees but they don't slow you down nearly as much

[trail salmon]

What i'd been doing was fishing in the ocean and facing the mainland so i can watch for attackers but that was never an issue bc nobody comes down near the ocean anyway

[edgy moon]

What are you doing to deplete your stamina so fast? I can't speak to the latest HT patch, but last patch it was still pretty easy to cross the map using half your stamina.

[trail salmon]

going from the bottom of the dam by the ocean to the pillars. Granted that is a huge vertical climb but still i think making the climb up shouldnt force me to recover for as long

at water access

[edgy moon]

sorry, I don't know what you mean by pillars

[trail salmon]

like the walkway of the dam those little support pillars that go like 20 meters up from the base of road

[edgy moon]

oh, I see

[timber tusk]

Spend enough time on YouTube and you’ll see those “what went wrong with X-game deep dives” and see the ones where the Devs promised to make the “everything game” or “the last game you’ll ever play because it has EVERYTHING,” which would always be red flags.

But Evrima oddly has a weird shot of kinda pulling that off by accident just by playstyles. PvP hungry murder-hobos get Cera, a sturdy, midsized scrapper that can, with practice, kill anything in the game without actually being OP, and Pachy.
Players who wanna be titans or titan killers get Trike, Rex, Camara, and Giga.
Players who just wanna explore, see the sights, and go fishing can pick Ptera. Players that want to fish and stay put get Austro.
Galli go FAST. Anky go slow.
Ambush players get Deino and Herera. Players who just wanna be a cute little guy that everyone loves can pick Beipi or Minmi or Homeo.

And of all freaking things, Hypsi, Dryo, Protoceratops, and more have a lot of potential to add actual, traditional base building and defense to this survival game, like actual Rust gameplay in The Isle, with playables like Megalania and Ava set up to be effective base busters.

The Isle actually has a shot at ALL of these playstyles in one game, without dying to creep just by being dinosaurs instead of people, and I wanna see them get there.

[edgy moon]

before they removed Ptrea's West Access spawn whenever I spawned Water Access I would throw myself into the ground, because at least at West Access you spawned near the top of a hill, rather than at the bottom of a depression.

[timber tusk]

Exactly. If they’d have added the new mechanics, then needed it to balance, that would have felt more like deliberate development, rather than, “we gotta fix this nerf without backpedaling.”

[timber tusk]

Word up.

[timber tusk]

Climbing to the start height of any of the thermals in the game can do it.

[trail salmon]

it would be interesting if pteras could climb slowly and deplete little stamina. Like you can meander up a tree to get some height without having to use stamina before gliding

[timber tusk]

Yeh. I timed it recently, and it takes a minimum of 4min to fully regen Ptera stamina. So if you burn all your stam getting TO a thermal, yeah, about 4min wait to actually use it.
You can fly way longer than 30sec, but it only takes about 30sec of climbing to burn through all the stamina.

[trail salmon]

i feel like in IRL these animals would be so efficient at flying that theyd be able to fly for minutes at a time even with having to gain altitude. Like imagine if an irl albotross had the stamina of a ptera

[neon willow]

To be fair, irl albatross only has the insane stamina it does because they don't actually do a lot of powered (flapping) flight - afaik they do a ton of gliding using ocean winds and thermals. Which would be fine for Petra if they were more common in game

[trail salmon]

yeah thats true. An albotross is a horrible example, they're prolly not comparable to something like a ptera

[neon willow]

Or they could go the game bird/quail kind of gameplay where they regen stamina faster and can use bursts of short flight... Idk, there's lots of options

But Petra is just kinda in this awkward place where none of its mechanics synergize well at the moment, making it boring and frustrating

[trail salmon]

I just want one of two types of pteras. Either an efficient flyer that has to rest for long periods to be able to fly for long periods, or one that flies in bursts. Current pt just feels like an awkward in between with the worst traits of both

[neon willow]

Yeah, exactly

[neon willow]

Ngl, I actually think the fact that Evrima is trying to be the everything game via different dinos (40+ roster) is one of the reasons it's developing so slowly. It's effectively already absorbed a ton of scope creep

[opal plover]

tis like what I was saying yesterday, if they implemented more uplift areas (and not just on the top of mountains) so that pteras can get height, that would be great so that we can explore more of the map even if the stamina stays the same, but at the same time the stamina regen defiantly needs speeding up or at least introducing the mutation for faster stamina regen during the day (or night which ever one you'd choose) rather than a mutation like being able to see under water better or wader mutation...bc who as ptera is swimming?? unless you have an unfortunate crash and even then why waste the mutation slot for that?

I mean I kinda like the slow gliding in some respects (I can see a lot of potential for if you're scoping for prey or watching other players or a camera bird for events) BUT as many others have mentioned the momentum definitely needs to be better (which again I know is going to get addressed at some point) since you can go from diving and having some speed, to pretty much a dead crawl if you dare to touch the climb altitude button

[edgy moon]

Personally, I think that designing Quetz as a sustained glider & redesigning Ptera to be a burst flier would help to differentiate them.

[trail salmon]

that'd be so goated

[timber tusk]

Also, why in the world would they make a change so that Ptera can’t glide anymore? You have to flap or boost every 25sec or so, or you slow way down and start to drop faster?? With Ptera stamina??????

[timber tusk]

True, but at least once Rex and Allo are “done” there will only be a few styles left unfinished. Most of the ones I listed already work, mostly. They just gotta get burrowing going. And big Hypsi nests.

[neon willow]

The final roster is at least double the size of the currently playable one... Including allo and rex to be generous

[timber tusk]

True, but not all of those are gonna need as much work as Rex has, since they’ll be able to use similar animals as a start.
Camara will take a lot of work, but they basically said that all the attention they’re giving to Ptera is in preparation for Quetz. Giga won’t have Rex’s same toolkit, but they’ve basically figured out running and growing a Theropod that size, so it’ll be comparatively shorter dev.

[timber tusk]

That’s why Dibble and Maia were such important additions. The first Ceratops and first Hadrosaur make all the ones that come after easier to develop.

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[neon willow]

Sure, but unless their mechanics are extremely similar, I don't think it will save that much time. The longest time sync has historically been implementing unique mechanics for each creature - for rex, crush and it's bugs and balancing have been a massive sticking point. Same with Trike and it's sparring/thrash... Even though the base is shared with dibble. Herrera climbing, Petra flight/spearfishing/skim fishing, hypsi climbing and nesting, Omni pounce, dilo venom and its many iterations... I don't know what mechanics giga, acro, shant, etc will have, but I'm willing to predict they'll take months each

Not to mention things like spino, bary, sucho, austro

And I sincerely hope para gets some unique abilities related to its crest/calls

[viscid mica]

I mean objectively they are pretty similar on the baseline atleast movement, base attacks and general gameplay are near identical. For example dibble and trike or troodon, omni, and allo.

The only major differences are scale and specialty. So it does help significantly reduce the time of production as it’s more so specific animations and the speed of movements plus stat balancing plus their special.

[viscid mica]

@harsh whale that would be better if it applied to tiny-mid sized Dino’s the larger ones on the other hand last very long anyway

[harsh whale]

Thats why I used omni raptor as a example compared to the rest of the roster it's small to mid sized

[viscid mica]

You lie it it very generally which is why I asked

[thorn mountain]

@terse lily for one: the speed is a bug for two: oh boo hoo you cant kill stuff bigger than you as a fisher and for three : yes stam regen could be better but its not even bad for the amount of distance you get.

[terse lily]

Thank god the speed nonsense is a bug, thanks for the info. That fixes the stam issue maybe. Second, I think it’s unfair to punish players for attacking literally anything bigger than it. What’re you supposed to do when no fish are spawning and you’ve got prey right there that you can skewer but could very well kill you if you landed and tried to fight it head on?

[dusky surge]

carno gets punished for attacking things bigger than it

self-stagger and damage

[terse lily]

I’m not a carno player so I wouldn’t know that but good to know

[thorn mountain]

when no fish are spawning you spear fish

[slim dragon]

Ptera doesn't need to land when fighting
That's why it's fighting ability is so bad

Because otherwise it'd be impossible to deal with

[vagrant plover]

@supple pagoda
Would you please write your own post rather than copying mine?

[slim dragon]

I think they just like you

[supple pagoda]

no

[thorn mountain]

fair enough

[sharp wigeon]

#balance-feedback message

Rex is most certainly overpopulated at the moment. But that's to be expected with the dibbles, and that it's likely made easier to grow so as to be tested more.

I've yet to play much since the recent pingpocalypse. But I've seen large groups of Deino occupying Delta prior to it, usually with outlying smaller stragglers in the vicinity (observed from the air).

Before Trike, when the mantra "Fix Fish" was developed, it seemed like every major body of water had at least three fairly large Deinos in it, and even after, when fish grew scarce, it was generally still unsafe to dwell in large bodies as Beipi.

.
Of course, it's also reasonable to ask. What counts as "overpopulated"?

In the real world a population of animals that can't be supported by it's current environment might be called that, or in certain circumstances considered to be invasive.

However, this is a game, and the desired population is up to developers. Without their input, we don't actually know the numbers they want.

My cute theory was simply that maybe the number they desire is lower then what's being played.

Many people here seem to advocate the idea that population should be controlled through access to food, especially for large predators, and this is a potential example of that process in use.

[crystal stream]

These takes are all so ahh ngl

[shadow sedge]

Hello,

I hope you’re all doing well. I wanted to share some feedback and open a conversation about the balance of mid-sized dinosaurs, particularly regarding Herrerasaurus. This comes from a place of experience and care for the game. Me and my mates have been playing it for decades, and this feedback has been written together with a few other players who have experienced similar situations. I have also discussed this topic in the Evrima-EU chat, so we understand not everyone may agree. I’m not here to complain, but to share experiences and ideas to make fights feel fairer and more enjoyable for everyone.

Today I had a couple of encounters that really highlighted the issue for us. I was playing as a full-grown Omni and, despite running only a short distance of less than 8 seconds to join my mates and resting, I died from a single Herra jump bite, going from 100% blood to 0%, even with the bleed resistance mutation. Later, in the middle of the woods after growing another fg omni, I also died from a one-shot head hit instantly. Situations like this feel extreme for mid-sized, non-tanky creatures.

Realistically, a Herra would latch onto prey and deal damage over time, kind of like an Omni does, rather than instantly draining all health from a single attack. I understand that Herras are small and vulnerable if caught, and they rely on mobility and trees. Which they have in abundance, to survive. That makes encounters very high-stakes mid-tier creatures, and it can feel unbalanced when a single hit can instantly decide the outcome. (im only talking abt fg, mid-sized dinos)

.
I’m not asking for Herras to be nerfed or for fights to become long-drawn-out battles. I think there’s room to explore ways where mid-sized dinos like Omni, Dilo, or Carno have a fair chance to survive encounters without relying on a specific mutation (not die from bleed when resting which really only would be used for the herra), while Herras still remain deadly and skill-based. Small adjustments to bleed scaling or damage could help fights feel fair, realistic, and fun for both sides (from Herra and Omni (and a few other dino) mains).

Between mid-sied creatures, fights are usually balanced… but when a Herra is present, it often feels very one-sided. I think it would be wonderful to have an open discussion about this with the community and the devs, to find a middle ground where everyone can enjoy fair, exciting encounters.

Thank you, for taking the time to read mine and many other people's thoughts! I really appreciate all the work that goes into making this game so engaging, and I just wanted to contribute a perspective from someone who loves the game and wants it to feel as balanced as possible for all players, including some that may not agree with my sayings. 💛

With kindness,
MeowSho

[hasty coyote]

The main thing about herrera is that its almost entirely reliant on that first hit killing its target. If it doesnt kill, then the target can just run out into the open, where the herrera stands no chance. However, to counteract the fact it has such a strong attack, that attack is incredibly limited. It only deals significant damage if the herrera has been falling for a while. So the herrera would need to predict where you are going to be at like 3-5 seconds in the future. This also means the moment you can spot the herrera, its no longer a threat, since you can either dodge its attack or just stay out of its range. So the herrera has to have a good hiding spot, be able to predict your movement, and have good enough accuracy to land exactly on you.

Now you as the omni also have methods of counter play against the herrera. If you know a spot is a common area for herreras, or just a popular area with some tall trees or rocks, keep your eyes up to catch them and keep your movement erratic. This alone will save you from 90% of herreras. Then if you do need to rest, drink, or eat somewhere, look around for herreras. Especially if you find a barely touched body next to a giant tree (or multiple bodies) thats a pretty clear sign of a herrera.

So yes, the single hit does decide the outcome, which can feel very one-sided, but there are many options to prevent that hit. It is in a similar situation as deino. Except herrera has many more limitations, but more options for places to hide.

[shadow sedge]

That’s actually a fair take, and I absolutely agree. The Herra does rely completely on that first jump, and yeah, once it’s spotted it’s usually done for.

My issue isn’t really that the bleed is strong, but that it’s so strong there’s basically no window to survive even if you react fast. Like, if you rest within 5–10 seconds after the hit, it should at least give you a small chance to live. That way the Herra still wins if it lands just a few more bites (which it easily can, since it attacks really fast), but players aren’t just doomed the instant they get tagged once.

The wiki even mentions that in lore, Herra mainly preys on smaller creatures, so the current one-shot effect on mid-sizes like Omni or Carno feels a bit over the top, especially when you compare it to other ambush-style dinos like Dilo or Deino, who still leave some time to respond. (Though unlike Deino, which is limited to water ambushes and gives players a predictable environment, Herra can strike almost anywhere, making mid-tier encounters much less forgiving.)

Realistically, Herra should attack similarly to Omni by latching onto prey with claws and teeth and dealing damage over time. Omni doesn’t instantly kill its target, and neither should Herra, because in real life it’s a smaller predator that relies on repeated bites rather than instant fatal attacks. The game exaggerates its lethality by making the first hit potentially fatal, which makes mid-sized encounters feel one-sided. Adjusting the bleed to allow a short window to survive keeps Herra deadly, skill-based, and more balanced.

I’m not asking for a nerf that would make Herra weak or unable to kill and end up not so fun anymore. Just a tweak so that its bleed remains deadly without forcing everyone to pick one specific mutation just to counter one species. It’d make fights more dynamic and fair for both sides while keeping the Herra’s ambush playstyle intact.

Of course haha, I understand the game isn’t meant to be a full simulation many mechanics are exaggerated for skill and fun. My goal isn’t to make Herra weaker, but to ensure mid-tier encounters are challenging yet fair, so new players can learn from them without being instantly eliminated and quit, while experienced players can still enjoy the same thrill and skill-based gameplay. It’s about keeping the game fun, dynamic, and engaging for everyone, not just punishing anyone for a single misstep :)

[steep gazelle]

Herrera is very easily countered just by knowing where the spots they normally stay

With just this No Herrera will kill you anymore

[shadow sedge]

Hello, I get what you mean about knowing their usual spots (which dont really stop any herra or dino to be anywhere around the map…) which i do most of the time, having been on Evrima since launch and played Herra quite a lot (even earlier, on legacy). But my point isn’t really about location. I actually don’t even mind them jumping on me, that’s literally what they should be doing to hunt and feed. The issue is what happens once the engagement starts, with the mechanics of the attack and bleed. Even if you’re aware of a Herra and avoid common areas, mid-sized dinos can still die almost instantly wherever they go once hit, which feels unbalanced. You can see more details in my message above about my personal, yet commonly shared, experiences in these situations.

[steep gazelle]

This is how he hunts, with ambush and with only 1 chance to hit, like deino

Just like with Deino, you can avoid an engage with them very easily

You don't even need to avoid hotspots, just avoid the places where they are located in hotspots, like the South Plains Mud, The trees in West Rail lake...

Herra may seem unbalanced, but it is not

Like Deino not is unbalanced

[shadow sedge]

I see what you mean about ambush mechanics and that Deino has a similar “one chance” style, but my point isn’t about avoiding hotspots. it’s about what happens once the engagement starts.

Deino is big, strong, aquatic, and realistic, so getting caught is deadly even for large prey. Herra, however, is smaller, mainly preys on small or slightly larger dinos, and is very mobile. By nature, it latches and applies continuous damage after jumping on prey, which isn’t represented in-game. It shouldn’t one-shot mid-sized dinos just because the game exaggerates its power.

I’ve even died outside hotspots, so it’s not about location, it’s the attack and bleed mechanics being too punishing. Herra should stay deadly and skill-based, but mid-tier fights could use a small survival window like I mentioned earlier.

I’m not arguing about where Herras spawn; I want to discuss how players can respond once danger strikes, being fully aware of the risk without being instantly doomed. Deino’s style is logical , accurate to irl. Herra’s could be more balanced and optimized.