balance-feedback-discussion

[lethal current]

Who in this game must hunting on Teno, Maia, Diablo, Stego. Who?

[golden coral]

Troodons can, omnis can, depending on size of the target and numbers, cerato can too, rex and allo when in will be able to

[dusky surge]

omni, troodon, cera, dilo, deino

[lethal current]

Diablo stay to the wall and u will loose someone with 100% chance even if kill diablo

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, dilos too, and possibly even carno, at least for teno and maia, if they're in a pack

[golden coral]

So then adjust and adapt your hunting methods and tactics, you can't really expect your target to just stand there and fight honorably after all

[keen plover]

Carnivore groups

[lethal current]

What hunting methods? Herbies just unkilleable and skill demands for skill and team work Ceras/Carno players in 100 times bigger than to herby and in same time Teno and Maia just run, Diablo have one shot combo, Stego it is no commentary

[keen plover]

This is annoying though i agree. Herbi stam cost being really low on non existent and the ability to keep attacking when out of stam is kind of lame imo

But same with cerato's non existent stam cost

[golden coral]

Well, carno is meant to only hunt smaller things, cera isn't really a hunter, but you can still very much so, especially in packs. You can always try to trick the target into leaving a defensive spot, and things like that

[golden coral]

Make every attack, even basic bites, take stamina!

[lethal current]

Cerato die for 1 mistake if fight vs Diablo Stego.

[keen plover]

Sure why not

[golden coral]

Because those are massive targets, not something cera is meant to really hunt

[lethal current]

It would be nice seriously

[golden coral]

Wait for allo and rex, and you'll see

[lethal current]

Or if u have no stamina ur atacks in 50% slower or smth like this

[thorn mountain]

are we having the herbi op discussion

[lethal current]

It is not discussion

Herbie OP it is fact

[thorn mountain]

its a debate!

[thorn mountain]

no its really not

[lethal current]

Xd

[keen plover]

I mean I wouldn't say OP but they do have issues. But so does nearly every playable

[dusky surge]

herbi op it is an opinion

[lethal current]

Who meant hunt on them? Which dino i can take for hunt on this targets? And what about Teno, Maia, ceras supposed hunt of them or not? If yes i have bad news for u, Cera cant

[thorn mountain]

you see a small minded player might think that but instead you see they cant make them useless otherwise no one will play them. It would be odd seeing a 1.3T carno or cera mauling a stego, dibble, maia or trike (Cera already does that), no real midtier carnivore or apex is in yet

I agree on herbivores should attack eachother but thats a different topic

[golden coral]

Allo, rex, when they're out. Ceras and dilos, omnis and troodons in packs can also do it. If you want a 1v1, allo or rex, if you're fine with a pack, troodon, omni, dilo, even cera.

[thorn mountain]

yep

also cera can literally take a teno or maia what 💀

[lethal current]

Give than other dino that can hunt on this targets, now we have no any predator that can hunt on something big. Cera in THEORY can but it need very skilled pack of players that will do perfect game and anyway u can kill just very nooby players

Why i must take Herbie for hunt on herbie, it is totaly degenerative

Why game has no normal predator

[thorn mountain]

no for one cera can take alot of things. little I need to remind you we are getting rex soon and allo is after rex 2 LARGE carnivorous animals that will be able to take on things like maia, dibble , trike

cera is in a very powerful spot rn doenst matter of you like it or not. But nerfing it rn will lead to herbivores being completely unchecked

[lethal current]

Ceras and dilos, omnis and troodons in packs can also do it. Ceras have zero chanches vs Stego, can hunt on diablo 2 vs 1 if in free field and 4 vs 1 if he near wall and anyway if near wall very big chance that someone from Ceras will die, if Diablo in pack it is stay quest with unreal difficult each ur mistake mean that u will die.

[golden coral]

So they can hunt them, is it difficult, yes, but it's still doable. And well, stego is a little out of ceras weightclass, as is trike.

And well, cera isn't really meant to be a good hunter, and it's still quite capable

[thorn mountain]

it is a issue when the small tier scavenger can take a apex herbivore

[lethal current]

Hope Rex will okay. But about Rex theme, say me why they add Trike without Rex, now half of people play on Trikes and u can do nothing to them, just create ur own Trike and atack

[thorn mountain]

what? Anyway they added trike without rex due to people wanting trike to release it was also their plan

[lethal current]

Hunt stego it is 1 case from 10000 in all others Ceras die. Hunt Diablo pack it is real, but u will 100% loose someone

Why they start think about add normal carnie just right now, when u do strong herbie u must in same time release carnie that can hunt on him.

How many time stego in this game? And zero carnie that can hunt on him, best stego killer in this game it is same herbi diablo

[dusky surge]

i mean

cera, omni and dilo i have all seen successfully hunt stego

[lethal current]

Good to know that u have so nice dreams

Now go and try hunt stego like Cera

[dusky surge]

i have

[lethal current]

xD

[golden coral]

Last I heard, omni, dilo, and even troodon can hunt stegos. With a lot of effort and a more or less full pack, but still, it's doable

[thorn mountain]

I literally kill stegs on cera

[dusky surge]

just because you cant doesnt mean others cant either

[lethal current]

U pathethick man u lie without any sense, where ur dignity

[thorn mountain]

its one of my favorite hunts

[golden coral]

Maybe cera can't as well as the others can, but I think they can too, at least in packs

But it's not like cera needs to be able to hunt stegos anyway

[lethal current]

U can kill stego that first time enable this game of stay afk

[thorn mountain]

like vanilla you speak as a new player ofc you will have trouble

[lethal current]

xd

[thorn mountain]

no

[golden coral]

Well, if you want to hunt stegos, maybe don't be a cera then, be an omni or dilo

[thorn mountain]

i have actually fought quite good stegs on pvp servers and officials

its a fact of a skill issue on your end

[lethal current]

Good fantasy boy

Thats why this game in statement like it

[thorn mountain]

weird thing but ok

also you speak in code my man

[lethal current]

Herbi nooby guys just want safe condition where zero predators that cant do nothing to them

Enjoy when i will kill u on my diablo or Trike

U anyway will die

[thorn mountain]

I dont think I will

[dusky surge]

i mean

i can just walk away easily lol

[golden coral]

There's no guarantee you will kill another stego or trike on the respective playable, they might be better than you at fighting their own kind after all

[thorn mountain]

you aint scary my dude like saying "oo im going to kill you" like ok cool I guess? You wont by how you speak about playable but still

[lethal current]

But if this game would be normal i play on predator and we both would get fun from this game. In that cond like now u will feel bad that u atacked by same herbie i feel bad bcs cant play on predators. Ur pathethick behaviour, decline facts just do this game worse for all players

[thorn mountain]

and since you said your hours to me ill say my hours to you 2900

[golden coral]

Cera is fine, if not even a bit overtuned still, unless things has changed. Just because you can't hunt the pseudoapex and apex doesn't mean you can't hunt anything else, or that there aren't things around that can hunt those large things

[thorn mountain]

ok I get it you use google translate flexing you play on a carnivore doesnt mean much I do it all the time and have very good success

[golden coral]

If you want to hunt certain things, play as a playable that's designed to do that

[lethal current]

Dilo, croc, omni has same noobie gameplay like herbi

[thorn mountain]

crazy how you didnt say cera but I play carno and dilo

and one atleast has skill according to you

[lethal current]

Carno it is okay, but u cant kill nothing. Best target that u can hunt on ur carno it is.... Cera.

[thorn mountain]

you can kill alot

[thorn mountain]

believe it or not thats what its meant to do

[golden coral]

Carno is supposedly a pretty good small game hunter these days

[lethal current]

No one big game hunter in this game, all predators here can hunt just on each other or on small

[golden coral]

Which is why we're getting larger predators soon enough

But you already have omni and troodon, both designed to punch up very well

So you do have large game hunters, it's just not cera and carno

Be a troodon, be an omni, even dilo can work due to funny clones and all, and hunt larger things

[lethal current]

Stego already 100 years in this game and zero predaters that could hunt on him all time. People literally take Diablos for killing Stegos. Thats what u did with ur own hands when defend that nerfed carn condition. And lets go look at Rex i will so laughing if he will weaker than Trike when release

[thorn mountain]

hmm yes I understand stego already 100 years in this game

[dusky surge]

i mean

rex shouldnt be stronger than trike if it is also faster

thats how the game works lol

[lethal current]

xd

If Tyranosaur Rex will weaker than Trike this game can be finish on this

Or it will be finish when they decide add here robo dinos and other marvel clown things

[golden coral]

Deinos could hunt stegos for quite a while, so could/can omnis, troodons, dilos, even ceras can and could before at least. And yes, diablos can too, becuase for some reason they can stun that high up. And why would rex be weaker than trike? Though even if it is, it'll still take on stegos, diablos, and all the others you seem to have a problem with.

[thorn mountain]

me when the UNFINISHED rex smokes a trike

even without crush

[lethal current]

" Though even if it is, it'll still take on stegos, diablos, and all the others you seem to have a problem with." Rexx by definition cant be weaker than Trike

Trike it is what Rexx eated

[dusky surge]

rex is what trike had to kill to survive lol

trike is specifically designed to kill rex

[lethal current]

Rexx must be more skilldependence than Trike it is true, but good player on Rex must have all for kill Trike

[golden coral]

It most certainly can, it's a game, it'll be treated like that. If rex is faster, it might have to be somewhat weaker than trike, but I doubt it'll be much. After all, I'm pretty sure rex is meant to hunt trike, but it's meant to be a dangerous and difficult fight.

Or trike might have to run, but if stego can barely run, I don't imagine trike will do much better on that front

[lethal current]

If devs will continue listhen guys like this it will always 7k online game and nothing more

[golden coral]

Well, if both are good, then trike would probably come out on top

Being that rex can pick and choose the hunt, so if the trike still loses, despite being as good as the rex, it might feel a little off

[lethal current]

If Rex will weaker than Trike he will die from hunger

Guys really just be better in game and stop turning her into rubish pile bcs u scary for play in equal conditions

And want play on dinos that in 1000 times stronger than predators

It change nothing, just people will take herbi and killing u, nothing more

[golden coral]

You know there's other things to hunt, stego, diablo, and so on. And you can ambush the trike, and so on. It's not an honorable 1v1 duel. Rex might get better NV, considering trike doesn't have that good, so maybe hunt them at night.

[golden coral]

Okay, so if both players are of equal skill, how does the matchup go then?

Or do you want both playables to have the same stats?

[lethal current]

Rex must win bcs Trike it is gregarious animal, Rexx it is solo killer

Trike cant be good by a definiton he just stay near wall and wait Rexx atack and even man that first time in live enable this game can defend.

I agree that Rexx than need a bit lower speed than Trike

For atack in night from ambush but in same time Rexx need something mechanic that if he did hit he slow target and Trike already cant run from him

[golden coral]

Trike is very slow, it is unlikely rex would be slower

[golden coral]

You're still likely to find solo trikes, and rex can probably pair up at the least

[lethal current]

Much worse if Rexx would be weaker

[lethal current]

Trike too can be pair

[golden coral]

Well if you make rex that slow, I doubt it'll be able to hunt anything anyway

[golden coral]

Yes, so choose your hunt carefully

[lethal current]

Rexx cant be weaker than Trike. Rexx it is solo predator that living by hunting Trikes

[golden coral]

Not sure why the idea of picking and choosing your fights and hunts isn't occuring to you. If trike is a bit more powerful than rex, then you need to properly ambush one, or otherwise work with it, like getting the jump at night, or some such. There's ways to hunt things that are faster than you, or stronger than you, already

[lethal current]

What mean choosing my fights? Not atack Trikes or what u mean

[golden coral]

Rex has other options to hunt too, it doesn't need to rely only on trikes

It means what I said, hunt at night perhaps, get an ambush on the trike so you get the first hit, and so on

If you know the trike is stronger in a facetank, which it reasonably would be, you need to approach it differently from how you'd approach a stego that is weaker and can't fight back like that

[lethal current]

"t means what I said, hunt at night perhaps, get an ambush on the trike so you get the first hit, and so on" That what i mean

If Rexx will just stay and fight vs Trike face to face Trike must win

But in same time Rexx must have options for have opportunity go to Trikes in back or smth

Rexx very big and it would be difficult do ambush on him, and he do many sounds

Same situtation like Teno and Cera, Teno faster, Teno stronger, someone care about it? No

If it will same situation in Trike and Rexx i dont know what say here, just continue killing all by Trikes

[faint robin]

There are no reasons for rex to be stronger face to face than a much slower trike

[lilac leaf]

There should never be a situation where if you were seen by something as a full-grown dino you might as well just sit down and die because you are too slow to evade and two weak to fight back.. trike being slow is fine, that works because of how strong it is, but you wanting Rex not only faster but being able to face tank a trike, no way lol

[steep gazelle]

Just by those words, i can see how much you know nothing. Cerato is the strongest carnivore in the game and the easiest to play

[lethal current]

Сry more herbie, mayeby one day u will get eggs for try play on most difficult dinoi in this game

[steep gazelle]

I play carno and troodon man xd

[lethal current]

And?

[steep gazelle]

Still ask ? These two are extremely difficult to play compared to Cerato

[lethal current]

Carno cant do nothing just kill Ceras and if Ceras do all right Carno will die, toodon it is just joke zero skill dino same like omni

[steep gazelle]

Damn dude

Even herb like Diablo are harder to play than Cerato, especially after the buffs from the last update

[lethal current]

I play on Diablo beter than 99%

And no Diablo much easier

[steep gazelle]

Stay close to a carcass and become immune to the carno charge and tenonto's stun xd

Nah, I'm not gonna keep feeding that ragebait

[lethal current]

U must hunt

not stay near carcass

I have better idea for u, go to the corner on map and stay in bush. Most powerful strat

Gypsy strongest dino with this logick

[steep gazelle]

Damn, are you really serious and not baiting?

[lethal current]

No need write empty message be man

[warm flax]

maybe Rex received faster trot speed but slower run speed compare to trike?

[lethal current]

Ye it would be perfect

[warm flax]

Im worrying trike just runs down rexs with tactile endurance
its not like tenno vs cera, which tenno's main attack is defensive rear kicks/ tail slam and they will slow down

[viscid mica]

@lethal current personally get abit better before you make comments based on nothing

Like your brand new

[eager saddle]

Someone: disagrees
Them: So you’re a herbi player

Why is this such a common thing? Not even just in game, overall.

“You disagree, Clearly you must be against me”

[elfin night]

@lethal current nice tantrum in the balance feedback chat. Funnily enough it is the update you did to the post what made me feel the need to comment and call out the blatant unawareness about this game’s current state when only stego and fg trikes are the things that are completely outside of deino and cera’s possibilities, with the latter being historically one of the most oppressive creatures in the recent years of evrima.

Also Rex is coming soon if you want to take on stegos and trikes so bad, but to declare they’re all somehow inherently overpowered stinks like copium.

And ngl you going on that rant calling everyone biased and “herbi player” as a derogatory (even though I for instance am one) was a really bad way to defend your case instead of providing actual arguments

[elfin night]

Also this is a mega cringe balance take when trike’s entire thing is defense, also making Rex somehow slower than trike would do nothing but feed into the existing sentiment in some sectors of the community that carnivores are somehow trash

[eager saddle]

Anyone that immediately assumes “you don’t agree with me so you’re against me” shouldn’t be taken seriously tbh (as ironic as that is )

[elfin night]

Real

And honestly, who cares if some herbivores play aggressively? If they have the means, let them be

[eager saddle]

Like I don’t agree with 90% of the stuff you say. Doesn’t mean I become hostile towards you

[elfin night]

It’s not like they’re an issue anyway

Only herbivore right now that is designed to be very forward and proactive is pachy and it sucks

Back then you had HT Maia but its nerfs made it into a not so effective hunter

[eager saddle]

But I am still open for facts and discussion despite not agreeing usually. Because that’s how you discuss things.

[elfin night]

[eager saddle]

Like I hate your takes on deino but you’re not wrong most of the time

[hasty coyote]

pachy and trike being shown to be aggro for literally 0 reason even in the concept arts:

[viscid mica]

Rip pachy please buff 08/2025 fr fr

[viscid mica]

Fr

[viscid mica]

HT Maia was nutty

[hasty coyote]

but honestly the crux of their argument seems to be that cera and carno struggle to kill stuff like teno, diablo, trike, and stego. Which is perfectly fine since they dont need to fight any of them. Besides cera v teno (which is a mostly skill based matchup) both of these carnis can easily shift+w to not deal with any of the larger herbivores. carno is designed to punch down really well, but struggle incredibly hard to punch up. Cera is supposed to be more of a scavenger bully, not a hunter that punches above its weight class. Ceras can still def group up and maul diablos, and a coordinated pack can hunt even trikes. What they really want is a larger predator thats actually designed to hunt many of these species, which is fair and should have released along side them tbh. However, if diablos, trikes, and stegos can get killed by something as small as a cera, they are just gonna die on sight to larger predators, which is horrendous for the game.

[hasty coyote]

honestly gonna change my tag to #BuffPachy

[viscid mica]

Ya I mean hypsi in a very good spot with climb now

Even if climb is very skill based

[viscid mica]

100% I feel like bro wouldn’t complain if we had anything mid tier carni side or bigger

[hasty coyote]

I just haven’t had the chance to fully test the climb, I tried when it first came out and it was just super buggy.

[viscid mica]

Land wise that is

[viscid mica]

I tried later on it’s fine just difficult to do fast

Once you get the hang of it though you can escape anything instantly

Faster than Herrera actually

[steep gazelle]

@autumn zephyr Omni is currently extremely good at hunting bigger things, there is no need to make him stronger

[autumn zephyr]

I absolutely disagree, whatever doesnt oneshot it right now, knocks it down for 3 billion years so it dies anyway

And thats fair, but the damage/bleed it deals is minuscule, if you're a pack of 4 raptors you need like 3/4 stamina bars per raptor for a single stego, and that is assuming you play your cards right

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Wolverine from Marvel Rivals shows us exactly how this would turn out (very poorly)

Also, yea, Omni is very good at hunting big things idk what we're talking about

[autumn zephyr]

I have only died to an omni pack, once, and that was my very first time trying evrima's dibble, I cannot possibly see how omni is good at hunting big game

[steep gazelle]

Omni can deal 1k damage in a single pounce damage if using all stam, and the bleed damage is even higher

[autumn zephyr]

If you're patient enough to not fall for baits you're guaranteed to win

[autumn zephyr]

Not for stego tho, which usually either stands still or z walks, and is also very good at dealing w bleed

And keep in mind im not asking for big numbers, im not saying 4 raptors pouncing a stego once should guarantee a kill, im just saying that there should be some sort of threat about it

[steep gazelle]

This is not a problem

[dusky surge]

stego has zero bleed resist lol

[cosmic pelican]

Omni has a pounce variation that literally kills a fg trike in 3 pounces. It does NOT need a buff damage wise

[dusky surge]

lmao

[steep gazelle]

Dude, 4 omnis can pin stego with 20% stam/bleed/health

Omni is already strong and has all the capacity to hunt bigger things, like Stego, it just takes a coordinated group to do so

[autumn zephyr]

A patient player will never go below those thresholds, making it impossible to hunt one

[autumn zephyr]

😔

[steep gazelle]

This is good. If the player is patient and knows how to handle their stam carefully, they should be rewarded for it

[autumn zephyr]

Hell, a patient player would rarely allow a raptor to pounce it to begin with, and theres so many trees around that even if the raptor somehow manages to pounce it, it will be knocked down and killed immediately

[autumn zephyr]

Absolutely, thats why im saying the numbers shouldnt be gigantic, if you slip up one, the damage will be similar to what it is right now, but if you allow more to hop on you, thats when you should feel the damage

[steep gazelle]

Stego will be difficult to hunt even for Allos, why should Omni kill him "easily" even against a good and patient player?

[autumn zephyr]

I repeat, I never said it would be "easily" killed, the numbers shouldnt be too big, but right now theres too many things working against omnis, making hunting a player that mind you, is just patient, not exactly mechanically efficient, impossible

[steep gazelle]

The current state of Omni is indeed a bit confusing, but one of the things it isn't is hunting bigger things

What Omni needs is to recover faster from knockdown (As it was before the Trike update)

And of course, desync is what hinders Omni the most in a fight, but it also affects all other players

[autumn zephyr]

Have you ever managed to kill a stego that was near a tree? no matter the number of omnis?

Or seen anyone pull it on a semi competent player?

My point with that change is, as long as you know how the game works, its nigh impossible to lose against an omni pack if youre big enough to guarantee one's death after a hit

And the change would help with that

Again, that doesnt mean the omnis should automatically win, it should just give them a window of opportunity, to actually try and kill that thing

[steep gazelle]

If you know how to play but the omnis pack also knows how, it will be a fair fight

[autumn zephyr]

I disagree, I've fought competent packs of omnis before, even nickboay and his crew, they struggled hard to kill my stego, and im not even a huge stego player, I play it on ocasion

[steep gazelle]

Omni is doing very well currently, needing only minor adjustments, but he is already extremely skilled at hunting large things

After the last update not every tree drops Omni anymore, maybe a bug or a shadow buff

[autumn zephyr]

Well, if not for the % health change I mentioned, they could also remove trees knocking omnis down and buffing the heck out of bucking

[steep gazelle]

Stego is not a good example to use in this question, as he is extremely strong and has very fast attacks to deal with Rex

[autumn zephyr]

But personally I like the realism of trees knocking them down, adds to the realism, although they should be knocked down w the stun after a certain momentum and not just trotting

[autumn zephyr]

So then what is a good example? stego is big game, something raptors should be able to hunt

Dibbles dont have it much harder either, hug a tree and you're safe

[steep gazelle]

Dibble, Maia, Trike...

[autumn zephyr]

It even has stego in its diet for crying out loud

[autumn zephyr]

maia can just run away most of the times

[steep gazelle]

Can't

[autumn zephyr]

trike, as well, can just hug a tree and is 10x more safe than stego is

[steep gazelle]

Maia runs a little slower than Omni

[autumn zephyr]

Nope, maia runs .1 km/h faster than omni

[steep gazelle]

Maia runs 46km and Omni too xd

[autumn zephyr]

omni runs 46.8, maia runs 46.9, same difference can be found in cera and teno

yet teno can very simply run away from ceras, that .1 makes a difference

[steep gazelle]

0.1km makes no difference in this fight

Omni can just follow behind biting or just use pounce

[cosmic pelican]

(Sub omnis run at 50.2kmh)

[autumn zephyr]

It does, because just like in the cera/teno matchup, it can just run away into the forest and eventually lose them

[autumn zephyr]

sub omnis also deal a lot less damage, and can be actually oneshot im pretty sure

[cosmic pelican]

Thats not really the point, maia can only run away from omnis if every single member of the pack is fully grown, which usually isnt the case

[crimson crater]

you could be 80-90% grown and still be faster or its speed

[cosmic pelican]

A 90% omni is still similar speed to a dilo, and its almost as tanky as a fg

[autumn zephyr]

Then what is the point? you can very easily run into a forest, and if a younger raptor catches up and pounces you, you can very easily knock it down and kill it using alt attacks only

[cosmic pelican]

If the omni pounces you and lets itself be knocked off by a tree it deserves it lmao

YAY FREE MONEY WOOHOO

[autumn zephyr]

Oh shi its from mrbeast, you know its legit

[steep gazelle]

I'm going to get rich now 🙏

[dusky surge]

to be fair, its attacks dont really do that lol

rex stomps it

[autumn zephyr]

Which is a fear I've had ever since rex got announced, I really hope stego doesnt actually just get to go extinct because rex exists

[steep gazelle]

Yes, the fully broken Rex actually does this. Stego will have a fairer fight against the officially released Rex

[dusky surge]

somehow i doubt that

[cosmic pelican]

Anyways...
The point of the sub omni is to keep track of the maia, it doesnt even need to go near it. Eventually the adults catch up, and after that the fight continues with the maia being at a disadvantage, since it just ran a whole lot.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

I agree that stego maybe shouldn't get one-tapped, but don't REVERT the damage buffs. The thrash was pathetic, and you couldn't even one-tap a dilo with an LMB

[autumn zephyr]

But tactile exists and usually raptor pounces give just enough steam to usually keep going for another 500 meters or so

[dusky surge]

tactile shouldn't exist is the core issue lol

[steep gazelle]

Crunch (I think that's what it's called) probably won't be able to be used on Stego as it is currently, only the headbutt

[dusky surge]

it almost certainly will be able to be used on stego lol

[autumn zephyr]

much better than gastro imo

[dusky surge]

nah, equal evils

[cosmic pelican]

Being pounced doesnt give you stam, even if you have tactile

[autumn zephyr]

It does just a tiny lil bit, the initial damage the pounce deals

But the rest of the damage doesnt count

[cosmic pelican]

It doesnt tho 😭

Like, even if it does, its useless

[autumn zephyr]

I've tested it king, im not saying ur lying, but im not either

[steep gazelle]

I really doubt that, as it would make the Stego practically useless against a Rex, Something heavier and running at the same speed

[cosmic pelican]

You start off every pounce with the neutral one, which does 6 dps roughly, that aint giving much stam

[autumn zephyr]

Depending on the ammount of pounces and bites, but usually its just enough

[dusky surge]

so they gotta buff the stego, because crush is intended to be usable against all sizes of creature, including stuff like trike

[autumn zephyr]

keep in mind pouncing also drains theirs

[autumn zephyr]

allowing rex to be stunned by the power swing is the best play imo

[cosmic pelican]

Not anymore, passive drain for the victim has been removed

[steep gazelle]

Obviously this ability will be totally different than it is currently with this incomplete Rex

[autumn zephyr]

I meant the raptors, while they are pouncing something, their stamina gets drained too

Not the prey's

[cosmic pelican]

Ah mb

[dusky surge]

nah, it doesn't solve anything

[crimson crater]

i think stego needs some improvements in general not just in 1 particular matchup. for a start it could be to reduce its stamina

[cosmic pelican]

But if you use neutral pounce you can stay latched for nearly 4 mins

[dusky surge]

stunning only lasts so long before the rex runs at you, knocks you down and finishes you

honestly a stun on powerswing would be largely worthless

[autumn zephyr]

You can always spam left click and it barely drains any but you wont deal any damage either

[dusky surge]

the fact that the rex is close enough to get stunned in the first place means that stego is probably already dead

[cosmic pelican]

(Thats neutral pounce)

[dusky surge]

i highly doubt that. seems like the ability is pretty much mostly done to me lol

[steep gazelle]

Maybe make it so that stego can "parry" this Rex skill

[lethal shale]

It doesn’t.

[autumn zephyr]

Rex usually has to charge you head on to bite you, so if you manage to stun it, that means free headshots no?

Its not about escaping rex, its about kicking its ass to the point its forced to run away

[dusky surge]

sure, but it breaks out of stun, swings at you, and you're on the ground and dead

also rexes probably won't run if they know one good strike is all it takes

[autumn zephyr]

Well one good strike shouldnt be all it takes, it absolutely shouldnt oneshot stego w one crush

[dusky surge]

if stego is balanced around "injure" and rex is balanced around "kill", rex still holds the heavy advantage

[autumn zephyr]

Well, it should have that advantage since it is THE apex carnivore, but stego should absolutely survive one rex crush or even more, and be able to fight back, one more stun and a few swings and rex should be either dead or almost

And heavily bleeding too

[dusky surge]

then imma be real stego's still screwed

apex carnivore or not, stego not posing a true lethal threat means rex doesn't really need to care that much

[autumn zephyr]

It would be a true lethal tho, if you get stunned twice you should be either dead or sitting on 5% health w about 20% bleeding and going fast

a single stun should guarantee at least a single headshot and a tail hit or sth

[dusky surge]

and the stego is dead, so... meh

like first of all, landing two stuns as a stego is a longshot, second of all, the fact that rex isn't dead and stego is means stego lost

if that's how the matchup is MEANT to go, with stego losing each time but getting some damage in, stego is just... not good

same as pachy

you got a fracture but you're still DEAD, so who really cares, your animal still sucks

[autumn zephyr]

Listen, so far what I got from rex's crush by playing around with it is that it kinda works like a pachy's ram with a short term pin, it will deal heavy damage to the stego but it shouldnt be able to kill it as soon as its got

And absolutely agree pachy deserves some love

Like, rex's crush is used multiple times per fight

[dusky surge]

i fear stego is going down pachy route

except honestly pachy has it better

[autumn zephyr]

Hey if rex is gonna destroy stego as hard as we think thats gonna be worse than pachy

[crimson crater]

at least pachy dosen’t take hours to grow lol

[autumn zephyr]

And can jump on safe rocks

[dusky surge]

and has a WAY better juvi and sub stage

seriously pachy is actually better as a sub than a full-adult lmao

[autumn zephyr]

It can also stay in sanctuaries till it reaches sub lmao thats also crazy

One of the best dinos to reach almost 300% growth rate with

[dusky surge]

The true best dino is hypsi

The speedrun niche

[autumn zephyr]

Yeah, I didnt forget about the king, thats why I said one of the best lmao

[autumn zephyr]

Adding onto that tho, rex has to retreat as fast as it can after its first crush, stego has the chance to stun it again in that time, if it tries charging in again or even when retreating

So a stun would make it fair as long as crush isnt meant to be a full duration pin, which from what ive seen, is not

[hasty coyote]

Well seeing as how it takes 3 headshots and a body shot to kill a Rex, a stun could give stego a chance. If Rex’s knockdown has a bit of a wind up and the crush has some limitation for being used on stego’s butt, then stego can potentially get 3 headshots in a row. Which means that if stego can at least survive the Rex combo, it can get the last hit or 2 it needs to kill the Rex. Though it would def take a LOT of effort from the stego while the Rex just goes “he he he CHOMP”. That or they make stego able to survive a non-headshot combo with enough hp to just swing the Rex to death.

[steep gazelle]

@soft mantle Considering how Op and poorly balanced Dilo is currently, these noisy footsteps are in some ways not bad

[hasty coyote]

it would def be best if it wasnt op and didnt have foosteps that loud. Because they really make it get run down by carnos, since even breaking line of sight wont save them.

[faint stirrup]

they should make a quick-timed event for when you get pinned by an omni, rex or allo. So you arent just DEAD from someone holding rmb on you

anyone else agree?

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mind it only in the context of things roughly of equal weight and even than only if above 60% hp

[faint stirrup]

you do have to admit, it is kind of boring just waiting for your dino to die, especially when all the person pinning you has to do is hold a button for a couple seconds

[viscid mica]

No cuz me personally I know what can and can’t be pinned and have learned the ancient art of not fing around and not finding out

Everything that omni can pin can evade and escape it or atleast is the planned to have a way to do so

[rigid tulip]

Quick time events are so janky and weird and really aren’t any kind of skill expression

The truth is that pins in general have no place whatsoever in this game and never have but such an opinion is sin

[dusky surge]

@rigid tulip Idk if you remember this, but back in like, early EVRIMA, stuns WERE way longer and basically resulted in death for your raptor if a teno landed a strong hit

If anything, we’ve just gone back to how EVRIMA initially was

[rigid tulip]

Well for raptor yes. A teno stun has always been death. Thats not my specific point. Its that in early evrima the entire hype around the gameplay was 1. You didn’t have to sit down for as long 2. Combat was deeper and no more tail riding 3. Player skill decided a fight much more than stats

We are slowly reverting towards legacy combat. Where larger dinos have a massive advantage over smaller ones (with the stun one shots we have) and there is less overall action and more sitting (new stam system) and player skill decides less the outcome of fights now (stuns and pins)

If you told any legacy player that the isle would have a mechanic where a dino would be pinned down they would actually laugh in your face at the concept

Its only because its currently in the game and currently the direction that the devs want that ANYONE is fine with pins

[dusky surge]

Idk if the stam thing is that bad though?? Like I don’t think this game should be treated as “fast pace action awesome combat sim”

It was fine when EVRIMA was nothing more than really a system presentation, but for an actual survival game, I don’t think it works

[rigid tulip]

I thought the stam system was honestly fine its just that it heavily punishes some playables while others play the same as they wouldve before the stam changes

It most heavily punishes pt, herrera, troodon and omni. Everything that is made to punch up against things larger than it

Its completely inconsequential to a dibble

It’s just that i feel no more freedom or speed of gameplay when picking smaller more agile dinosaurs

[dusky surge]

I also don’t really agree with the concept that player skill doesn’t matter, I moreso believe that people need to realise that some things just… don’t hunt other things. That’s how an ecosystem works. No amount of affirmative action is making the solo raptor kill the trike

[rigid tulip]

I feel honestly more burdened by playing pt or herrera than I do playing as a maia lol

[dusky surge]

I mean, Herrera isn’t (and never will be) an endurance animal, somewhat par for the course with it

[rigid tulip]

And i feel more athletic and like i have more endurance when i play cera rather than troodon

Because it doesn’t take stamina to play the game for it

Its stats speak for itself

[dusky surge]

Well that’s just bizarre because Troodon has INSANE stam efficiency, the best of any carni

[rigid tulip]

If the worst trike player ever faces the best raptor player ever the raptor should absolutely have the possibility of winning

[dusky surge]

It’s pounce is cheap, it has the fastest trot of the carnivores, it has the highest running stam of the carnivores and I believe it also has the fastest stam regen of the carnivores

[rigid tulip]

And i think a teno should be able to beat 8 raptors if he’s that goated

Thats just more fun. Everything is in place to make it extremely hard already. Always has been that way

Completely slapping a good player’s hand and saying no to their personal ability will never be a recipe for fun

[dusky surge]

Ehhh, idk, personally I just think in the situation that a solo raptor is facing an adult trike, it should always lose logically speaking

[rigid tulip]

Yes and it will if the trike player is decent. Im just saying forcing players to lose in interactions is unfun always

[dusky surge]

Because the implication should inherently be

1. The trike is not unskilled, given that it actually grew the trike
2. The raptor is just inherently outclassed

[rigid tulip]

Why cant things just be extremely hard? Wouldn’t that be better than FORCING a loss no matter the player ability of either party

I think the stat difference is more than enough already

[dusky surge]

I’m gonna be real. When kentro comes out, Herrera should basically be worthless against it. Same as a raptor vs an anky. The reasons why should be obvious

[rigid tulip]

8 raptors shouldn’t just get to pin down a teno because he “shouldn’t win.” Said teno should be given the ability to USE HIS KEYBOARD at least

I dont think thats too much to ask in a pvp game

[dusky surge]

It can

[rigid tulip]

Of course and theres nothing wrong with that

[dusky surge]

It can put itself against terrain, obliterate the raptors before they can pin it, so on

[rigid tulip]

Im just saying that there shouldn’t be any kind of destruction of the herrera players personal controls in the situation

[dusky surge]

It also has a superior swim speed and trot, so it could arguably play the endurance game

[rigid tulip]

Before pin it would just be an extremely engaging and always scary for both parties fight

Pins and stuns take away the fear of the survival horror game

Uncertainty of outcome is where we get our dopamine rush

Wait until allo groups find anything smaller than them lol. Facetank one hit and then pile on and remove the herbi’s controls

Nothing will survive an allo group whatsoever unless they are faster or can stun them

Omniraptor but with 0 risk

The number one most important thing in balancing any pvp game is counterplay and player skill expression. Every decision that has been made since early spiro has gone against this

[faint robin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-evrima-t-rex-rex-diabloceratops-gif-13308571214103444922

[obtuse ocean]

I agree with you one some here, I dont get why you need counterplay, like you meaning everything should have counterplay against everything? And any pvp game? Like if you play counter strike, and someone sneak up on you from behind. You are 100% dead without any counterplay. You got outplayed.

[autumn zephyr]

Bad comparison, in counterstrike everyone plays on equal terms, and yours is an example which could have been prevented if the player getting killed was more aware, his argument is that no matter what you do, if the allos outnumber you, you are 100% dead with nothing you can do about it

[obtuse ocean]

We play on equal terms in this game to , we all have pros cons you need to use. If allo outnumber me as a cera, im dead or run get away. If those allo ambushes me they deserve that kill. If im trike vs a pack of allos, i can defintly defend myself i hope and guess.

[autumn zephyr]

The pros you mentioned, thats what counterplay is, if you're a solo dibble and you stumble upon a pair of allos you're 100% dead with nothing you can do about it, if their ability is literally raptor's pounce (im not too sure havent seen what allo can do except that one video)

They should absolutely have the advantage in that fight, and win 70 times out of 100 even, but they should be rewarded for their skill, not just get one to tank an attack while the other pounces so then the one that initially tanked can pounce too and guarantee a kill

[obtuse ocean]

I play 90% solo so yes i know. I would love that solo players get more playables. But then again, i hate to say it. Those allos should defintly kill me without much problem.

[autumn zephyr]

But thats not fun now is it, I say they should kill you, but at least w a lil bit of a problem

[obtuse ocean]

That does not mean dibble is a bad balanced

[dusky surge]

Imma be real, with dibble’s damage output being as it is, it really doesn’t stand any chance against 2 allos lol

Dibble’s damage is good against our tiny roster, but I reckon it’ll need buffs come allo

[obtuse ocean]

Agree, but if i wanne play solo and defend myself. I either need to play something that most likely are big like trike etc. Or something fast that i can pick and choose my fights. Its not a luxery unfortunately to play solo.

[autumn zephyr]

Yeah, at the same time ceras have way too easy of a time w dibbles rn, even a pair of ceras pose a threat to a solo dibble

[obtuse ocean]

Or something that can avoid stuff, like bary etc

[dusky surge]

Yea

Lots of people really talk up dibble but imho it’s not that great at all

Trike does what it does but better 95% of the time

[autumn zephyr]

To be honest w the new thrashing it does stand a slightly better chance at fighting said ceras

But they can just retreat and gastro anyway

[autumn zephyr]

fr, people that die to dibble either arent that great or got screwed by desync, its attacks are barely faster than trike's and unless its the knockdown + thrash combo they dont really deal threatening damage

[autumn zephyr]

I'd say, unless you play something thats notoriously known for thriving in packs, like raptors or dilos, then you shouldnt have to struggle too much being solo w a playable

[soft mantle]

but the current game state and it's playables are almost all in a poor state, i'm giving my opinion about what the final product should be

[autumn zephyr]

Take cera, they are not supposed to be pack hunters at all, they're supposed to be solo scavengers that bully people off of fresh hunts, they're not played like that at all because of lack of bigger carnivores, but a trio of them should be able to have a chance at fighting a dibble, and they do, a cera fight is interactive enough to be fun

In most species that dont depend on it a pack shouldnt be the main survival point, just an opportunity to thrive

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, true. Biggest problem i see when playing in packs right now. Is that stuff gives to much food when you kill something, even just small stuff. I wish you would be forced to go for something big that is a threat when you attack it even in packs. It should have a drawback playing in a pack aswell.

[autumn zephyr]

Meanwhile you have to eat up forests as a dibble because oranges and the plants give 0.1 food

Feels like a chore more than anything

[obtuse ocean]

lol yea, i have not played much dibble. But again if herbis can thrive on food, well then you need big packs aswell : P

[obtuse ocean]

This is true, but cera is actually quite small. Meaning it got good speed and turn etc. Interactive fights like that can be fun for you, dont mean everything in the game should be like that. Rex will prob kill fast without anything more to it

[autumn zephyr]

Yeah and thats fair, rex is an apex carnivore, the biggest of the big boys, but that doesnt mean everything bigger has to pin down and instakill everything smaller, im fine w a few exceptions like deino and rex, but allo having a pin/grapple is a bit too much imo

[keen plover]

I mean it's pretty powerful. You can near 1 shot cera in a single combo. I doubt anything in diablos knockdown range will beat it

[obtuse ocean]

But how would it kill then, lets say your dilo and im allo. I ambush you, hit you. And you just run away ? How i eat : P

[keen plover]

1 v 1 at least

[autumn zephyr]

But as a cera you are fast enough to keep up w a dibble's turning, and if the dibble doesnt know how to turn properly, you're faster

[keen plover]

That's true. I dont' think diablo's issues are damage related if anything.

[autumn zephyr]

Allo should deal massive damage, bleed too, which is also one of dilo's biggest weaknesses

And seeing as allo is a 2.5 ton beast, I doubt a dilo can envenomate an allo in just 2 bites or something like that, it'll likely need more

[keen plover]

Imo pins are fine if the size difference is large. I don't think it's fun or healthy for the game if you're 1kg larger lol

[autumn zephyr]

If you make dibble turn too fast then its unkillable, my idea for a fix like this is either increase the damage somehow or give the alt attacks a knockdown too

[keen plover]

I also think grab/pin moves are too spammable. They need to be costly so you don't use it every second

[keen plover]

It's alt should knock if anything yeah

[obtuse ocean]

Ohh that i agree on , i was more meaning allo getting a ambush on a omni should be a death sentence.

[keen plover]

It's damage and turn are fine for now

[dusky surge]

Genuinely? The best change that could be given to it

I 100% agree, and honestly, I reckon it should be a dibble exclusive thing. Trike shouldn’t knockdown on alt

[autumn zephyr]

Oh and also, definitely remove the interaction where a troodon pounce cancels the entire animation of a dibble's attacks

[obtuse ocean]

I tried troodon the other day, did a few pounce on a dibble. Actually got it to last stage much faster then i tho lol

I did die tho

[dusky surge]

Troo is underrated. It’s venom is insanely potent given it applies regardless of weight

[keen plover]

Troodon venom appllication doesn't scale. It takes the same amount of pounces to envenomate any creature

[autumn zephyr]

Its not like it needs it, with the current roster at least lmao

[obtuse ocean]

Thats insane lol

[dusky surge]

Ehh, allo and rex are quite literally the next two animals, I say it needs it

[autumn zephyr]

No im talking about trike

[keen plover]

I think there might be issues with attacks cancelling thrash as well for trike and diablo?

[dusky surge]

Ahhh

[autumn zephyr]

Dibble getting a knockdown on alts was MY idea after all 😎

[dusky surge]

Well I don’t think trike needs it regardless of roster

Imho, dibble should be the “flipper”. Its horns just look like their designed to flip things over

[keen plover]

Trike's already pretty tanky and powerful. I don't think it needs more cc attacks lol

[autumn zephyr]

And even the way it swings its head when doing an alt attack screams "im gonna flip yo butt"

Dibble's gotta get a knockdown on alts

[obtuse ocean]

I think it has very weak attack, unless im not seeing it. Im just having problem facetanking that and get away with it as cera. Or can the trike kill it?

[keen plover]

Trike can kill anything in 1 or 2 hits rn lol

Well apart from another trike

[obtuse ocean]

lol ok, good. Yea another trike or croc i get : P

[keen plover]

tbf even deino can die in 2 hits if you land headshots

[elfin night]

Thrash meta

From absolute worst to the most broken move in the game 😭

[thorn mountain]

I wish it did terrible damage without knockdown

[elfin night]

Same

[slim narwhal]

Anyone fells like the game has become basically one shots i can't get cc its basically a death sentence

i feel like its 100% easier to kill any carni then a herb

[thorn mountain]

honestly

herbivores should be hard to hunt

and also punishing (which they are)

[slim narwhal]

they would be fine if they didnt one shot

and the desync was fixed

[thorn mountain]

like what oneshots?

[slim narwhal]

most of the times i die because they hit me and im not even there

[obtuse ocean]

Depends on what herb you mean, dibble should def kill a omni facetanking it lol.

[slim narwhal]

not what i mean

diablo with 2 charges and full combo

kills carno and cera

fight should be longer

[thorn mountain]

eh

carno shouldnt be hunting it

[slim narwhal]

i just wish they fixed desync

if they fixed it not even a problem

the dmg

[obtuse ocean]

I disagree on that, think the dmg is to low already. Would be boring if i can just do mistakest after mistakes without any threat

[slim narwhal]

the problem

is that i make no mistake and im in the ground

because they can hit my tail

3 m away from me a knock me down

thats what i rlly dislike

[obtuse ocean]

Thats not balance issue, sounds more like hitbox prob. But yea thats not good agree

[slim narwhal]

like every single time

im dyeing to this

[dusky surge]

thats not really a one shot tho is it

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @dreamy gulch it’s almost like omni is a pack reliant predator. it has decent stamina, a run time of 2m and 45s, recently they increased the latch duration of the neural pounce by 4 times. it has good enough stamina to reliably take down things like pachy, what more could you want lmao

[dusky surge]

the troodon complaint is even more wild

cheap as hell pounce, INSANELY high stam for a carnivore, highest trotrate of any carni, fastest stam regen of any carni

like... troodon is THE endurance king of carnivores

[crimson crater]

practically feels free

[dusky surge]

hell, unlike omni, who needs to pounce for long durations/burn stam to do notable pounce damage, troodon is in and out

it is SO cheap to hunt as troodon

part of why i love it

[viscid mica]

@pale bolt are you sure you where full? Cuz a single charge bite can’t vomit a full stomach cera

Not even half stomach cera

It takes 2

If not 3 with diet and full stomach

[pale bolt]

no i was fg carno and one bite made me puke

i rammed into him he bit me once and i puked immediately

[viscid mica]

I didn’t ask your size I asked how filled was your stomach

[pale bolt]

like 70-80% full

[viscid mica]

Sounds like a cheater

It shouldn’t have done more than half max stomach

I know for a fact cera cannot 1 tap vomit a carno with more than 50% stomach

[pale bolt]

i see

[lilac leaf]

Yeah usually it takes two to three bites to vomit a carno

[rigid tulip]

Thats absurd

It should take minimum 8 to 10

[slim dragon]

8 to 10 is more than the amount it takes to kill one lol

[rigid tulip]

From regular bites it should only barf whenever its on orange hp

Charge bite i could understand puking in 2 bites

Make it give a heavier speed reduction while using it and a light light light stam cost of holding it and you have yourself a defensive ability that uses puke perfectly

And we can completely avoid the opressiveness of hunting with the puke

[viscid mica]

That’s completely false lol?

8-10 would kill a carno

[hasty coyote]

if you get headshots, you can flat out 1 combo a carno or cera from even the sprint knockdown: sprint attack + headshot thrash + headshot spar = 1350. If you hit the heavy attack first instead, only one of them need to be a headshot. Being able to thrash and spar attack before stuff like carno can get out of range is kinda op imo, but thats more an issue of them having too long knockdown durations.

[rigid tulip]

Im saying thats how it should be

[hasty coyote]

also what would be the point of the vomit if it only activates once the target is almost dead lol. It will take just as long to heal from vomit as it will to heal from the damage, so it accomplishes nothing. It should be earlier on so that if you fight a cera, you will have to deal with vomit, rather than only if they nearly kill you.

[rigid tulip]

Exactly bro

Cc attacks of any kind should have massive cooldowns or stam costs

And missed grabs should seriously put you in trouble

[rigid tulip]

The point of vomit would be as a deterrent to fighting it. So make charge bite a purely defensive ability and let it give the vomit while we make it very hard to vomit anything with normal bite. Corpse bully niche saved while it’s opressiveness in hunting is fixed

[viscid mica]

That’s still way too much it’s basically invalidate the entire purpose of that ability

They just need to tune cera more towards defence than offence and it’d be fine

[rigid tulip]

Keep the cc resistance on charge bite, make it reduce your movement speed while holding it

Boom. Defensive ability

[hasty coyote]

I think it should really depend on the attack, like maia's alts have cc but they also deal very low damage for its size and have a decent stam cost. But in general many of the spammable cc attacks should have higher disadvantages than they do currently.

[rigid tulip]

And it would be fine if 1-2 charge bites cause vomit in this case

Because you chose to engage with the vomit dino yk?

[viscid mica]

Fr

Cera kit just allows it to be way too active of a hunter

[rigid tulip]

But its not cool for my fully grown pachy to vomit in one left click from a sub cera and be stunned to death because another player did the extremely difficult task of walking up to me and left clicking

Full stomach btw

Cera vomit on left click gives it 2x the reward with no risk

Its a zero stamina cost cc ability that also debuffs you

And you can spam

[rigid tulip]

Very agreeable

Im saying for example especially with current knockdowns dibble for example can spam its absurdly stupid hitbox punt attack over and over again and if it lands even once even a body buffed cera is out of the fight lmao

0 risk and 99 reward

[hasty coyote]

I think what we have now is already solid at that, though it def could use some nerfs to really push it into a more defensive style with charged bite. Namely reworking the stam cost to be larger and on the bite, so holding it is fine but attacking is nerfed, and also making the speed nerf immediate rather than only at full charge. Other than that I think cera alone is mostly fine, the rest of its issues are because of mutations and other dinos being trash.

[rigid tulip]

The only reason cera is good is because its the only agile larger carnivore and 2. Because left click can cause puke

It just doesn’t take any stamina investment to have combat unlike every other predator besides dilo. And dilo dies in one hit to every cc because of knockdown get up times

People play it because they dont need to use stamina to deal damage

And they can tank one hit

Thats the only reason people play it

[steep gazelle]

Cera is just extremely easy to play while also having no awareness whatsoever for making mistakes or using his abilities, just like any other playable

[rigid tulip]

My whole friendgroup stopped playing raptor entirely because a desync cc means your 100% raptor is just dead. And you have to use stamina to deal damage

[hasty coyote]

diablo's sprint attack 100% could use a nerf now that it actually deals a LOT of damage with the combo. Probably give it a slight stam cost or make it have a higher cd would prob help a lot. However, I do also think its alts should do cc since atm they are trash. Even with cc they have decent wind up and heavy end lag with only decent damage.

[rigid tulip]

Raptor isn’t in a bad spot or anything. Its just that cera is significantly better in every way. And this goes for every carnivore

Its more rewarding less risky

In all scenarios

[steep gazelle]

Cerato definitely needs more attention from the devs to make his charge bite a defensive mechanic rather than an offensive one

[rigid tulip]

And vomit needs to as well be a defensive ability

[rigid tulip]

To be honest every herbivore (larger than pachy) is now significantly better than carnivores and can make 20 mistakes before it dies whilst the carnivore makes one and is out of the fight

Except teno. It has good hitboxes and is well balanced.

[hasty coyote]

this prob will be true until larger carnivores come, who will actually destroy cera and are much closer in speed. Like a rex aint catching an omni, but it could for sure ambush a cera. So the advantage of speed and choosing your fights will only become stronger as time goes on

[rigid tulip]

And this is basically just because every herbivore has a cc combo that takes over 60% of a carnivores hp. (And they can spam this minimum 25 times per stamina bar)

[hasty coyote]

so basically every herbivore thats over 2x the size of the closest carnivore is stronger than the closest carnivore, who woulda thunk it lol.

[rigid tulip]

If knockdown times were made back to normal and we made cc attacks themselves have a decent 1-2 second cooldown then everything would be beautiful

[rigid tulip]

No im completely fine with the stats of the creatures

Teno should be able to kick the hell out of 2 carnos at once in a facetank lol

Im saying that there is no counterplay to cc and the herb can make 30 mistakes for free while the carnivore makes one and is out of the fight

Just make knockdown times normal again and make attacks such as dibble punt have larger windows or happen less often in some way and everything is beautiful

Herbivores should as a whole be stronger than carnivores

Thats fact

A raptor should die from one mistake against a dibble obviously. Im just saying make its hitbox more reasonable and punish it in some way for the dibble spamming the punt. (Even just a 1.5 second cooldown where it cant attack after a missed punt would be fine) take a good lil 50 damage nibble at least for your mistake

And then obviously a Cera shouldn’t be nearly one shot by a dibble thats just absolutely insane

[hasty coyote]

again, thats really only if you look at larger herb v smaller carni. Cera kills teno just as fast as teno can kill cera. Pachy dies faster than it can kill a omni or a dilo.

If you compare a stego to a cera, then of course that stego is going to be strong. You're comparing a scavenger bully to something over 4x its size and built to fight things even larger than itself. The issue is not with diablo, trike, and stego being too generous (for the most part), its the issue of them not having a carnivore to compare with.

[hasty coyote]

that though I can agree with, the sprint attack is def a bit too spammable.

[hasty coyote]

also it can get flat out 1-comboed if the diablo goes for the head, which is a bit much. But thats more an issue of them being stunned for so long, because diablo does need that damage to deal with larger threats.

[slim dragon]

@soft mantle an afk debuff can't be triggered after just 2 minutes, that's waaay too short
It needs to be at the very minimum as long as the time it takes to regen to full stam

[viscid mica]

Not deinos who need to camp areas for potentially a hour just for one meal

[rigid tulip]

lower weight dinos should be able to get up faster. if you watch flyweight ufc fights their recoveries are much faster than heavyweight

[rigid tulip]

teno is completely fine and honestly the single most balanced dino in the whole game. im just saying the knockdown is the number one problem in the game rn by far

and this dispraportionately benefits any cc herbivores where they can spam a move that is essentially a one shot (teno is not really as much of a problem here but it can be the case against for example a glancing desync blow on a dilo where the dilo is now dead because it got tapped slightly by a stun where the player cannot play for the next 4 seconds)

i dont have any issues with herbivores specifically. I think in every scenario in a 1v1 an herbivore should be able to have a nearly 80% win rate against its same weight counterpart/main predator. Such as trike beating rex, teno beating cera, theri beating say an acro etc. Their stats and defensive abilities SHOULD be better. Im not arguing against herbis, only i am arguing against the current herbivore roster's CC abilities and the lack of counterplay or risk involved in interactions with said abilities

pachy is absolutely not involved in this convo though. Using its CC stuns itself every attempt missed or landed lmao. If anything I would be completely fine with it stunning like it did in spiro. It has punishment for a miss and a low hp pool.

pachy is the dino that lowkey needs the most love in the game rn

[lethal current]

Just zero predators that can hunt on her

He stronger than Carno and Cera

And even faster than Cera

Stop ruin this game with ur crying and look at things objectively

[dusky surge]

"stop ruin this game with ur crying", says the man who's been crying about herbivores existing for the past few days lol

[lethal current]

I said facts

[dusky surge]

you spell opinion super weird

[lethal current]

It is not "opinion" it is fact

Teno stronger that Carno it is fact

Teno stronger than Cero it is fact

Teno faster than Cero it is fact

[dusky surge]

the only fact you've said is teno is faster

that is an objective fact

[lethal current]

As i said Stop ruin this game with ur crying

[dusky surge]

im not the one crying lol

[lethal current]

U do

U just decline objectivly facts

[dusky surge]

who's the one crying over "teno so strong teno so strong" lol

[lethal current]

For herbs not be nerfed because u unskilled boy that cant plya in this game

[dusky surge]

i dont even play the herbs you have a problem with is the funniest part

my fave herbi is hypsi

[lethal current]

U words like: "Fire is hot it is just ur opinion"

It is not my opinion

it is fact

U not play on carni same

[dusky surge]

i play carnivore all the time lmao

i just like having skilled hunts as opposed to demolishing an overnerfed herbi

[bitter kite]

First, mate, work on your English before you come to the table talking about skill, secondly, through skill, anything is possible, a solo troodon can take down a trike, a Dillo can out play teno and I absolutely clean server when I play cerra. The balance is fine, expect for deino, hes got the rough stick with these new safe drinking spots.

[dusky surge]

i actually think a trike flat out can outheal a troodon's damage output, but idk

at least from what i've seen and heard

[lethal current]

I already said to u in this game just 2 carn it is Carno and Cera(mayeby Dilo) all other it is just same no brain gameplay like herbies

[dusky surge]

carno and cera aren't all there is lol

[lethal current]

If u jumping on people like Omniraptor u not play on carni

And u still killing just small guys

[dusky surge]

i love the elitism too, as if playing certain carnivores makes you "not a real carnivore""

[bitter kite]

Max poison and pounce damage increases the bleeding stacks, so you tend to bleed them out before damage killing them.

[dusky surge]

fair fair

bleed does reduce healing rate so I suppose that would eventually end up with troo having an advantage

[lethal current]

Stop ruin this game with ur crying

[bitter kite]

Bleed actually drains stamina regen, lower stamina means slower bleed heal, it's a funny little loop.

[lethal current]

Herbies overpowered it is understand all, but not all have courage say about it

U just little girls that want for them characters stay OP and no one can kill u

People like u doing this game dead

[bitter kite]

This guy is ether 10 years old or has mental health problems, would not do for anyone's dignity to continue to engage with it.

[dusky surge]

he's so funny though

[bitter kite]

Yea but it's very sad, it's like kicking a puppy, truly not something to be proud of.

[lethal current]

Stop crying and just learn play for ur dignity, stop ruin game balance with ur hysterics

[bitter kite]

The bleed system is wonderfull, I have yet to die from a bleed out but I have killed many with it. It's the stopgap for smaller carnivores with patience and literaly ruins any argument about OP big dinos

[thorn mountain]

I Agree

[lethal current]

Man that defend brocken balance bcs he scary play in game where people have approximately equal chanches, he want play in game where he play on OP character that invulnereable for any predators and saying some about dignity, pathethick boy

[thorn mountain]

'people like u doing this game dead' - vanilla 2025

[soft mantle]

i agree, idk stamina regen times, i just gave an example

[bitter kite]

Brocken balance he scary chanches character invulnereable pathethick boy

I had a stroke trying to write that.

[thorn mountain]

I had one reading it

[bitter kite]

But remember my hysteterics will ruin game balance, so jot that down.

[dusky surge]

just play the game and eventually you'll get good enough to kill a herbi lol

[thorn mountain]

facts

[lethal current]

xd

Lets go to sandbox i will take teno u cera, show me how not good i enough

[dusky surge]

im going to assume you're not australian

[thorn mountain]

I dont think wavepoole has a sandbox

[lethal current]

I am going to assume that u have zero skill in this game and never was at sandbox and never fight vs normal players, u grazing boy that can just crying and ask for devs do balance where herb in 100 times stronger that carn

[dusky surge]

again

i dont play herbis of that size, they're far too slow for me

[lethal current]

Again play on omni it is same like play on herbi zero brain needed

[dusky surge]

i mean, if i wanted zero brain, id play cera lol

[lethal current]

As i said: "I am going to assume that u have zero skill in this game and never was at sandbox and never fight vs normal players, u grazing boy that can just crying and ask for devs do balance where herb in 100 times stronger that carn"

[dusky surge]

and you'd still be wrong

[lethal current]

But ye i was wrong herbie need more skill than deadbrain jumpingsw on Omni

[obtuse ocean]

What herbs you mean, most are stronger atm. You wanne take down a dibble as omni or something with ease ?

[lethal current]

I say that play on herbies need at least some skill, for play on Omni need nothing, totaly nothing, just deadbrain jumps and run repeate so much how u want

No any difference bettwen skilled player and player that first time enable game when play at Omni

[lethal current]

Just wasted 1m and found video where showing Tenoi vs Cera fights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0quIl_U2Xqo&ab_channel=Frenchy

[crimson crater]

the cera had no bile

[lethal current]

What will change with bile

Cera cant atack

for not get atack in back from Teno legs

[crimson crater]

without bile cera is at a disadvantage

[lethal current]

I say to u one more time with bile nothing change Cera same dying

U just do bite Teno do to u legs atack and u loose in this atack change

And Teno can run in any moment

Cera not

[crimson crater]

yea idk, having the ability to instantly drop your vitals and locking you in an animation is pretty huge

[cosmic pelican]

Outdated, cerato got buffed since then

[lethal current]

It is not outdated this buff nothing chage fight still same

[cosmic pelican]

Are you from europe?

[lethal current]

Tenbo still stronger and give zero chance to Cera

[cosmic pelican]

We can test on an admin server perhaps

[lethal current]

So go

[crimson crater]

skill issue

[lethal current]

And test it at least 1 time in ur life u will play at sandbox and get some skill

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah hop on

[lethal current]

U will not find any Cera that will win normal Teno, u just about "skill issue" bcs u totaly noob and understand zero in game

[cosmic pelican]

Youre the one stating that teno is so absurdly op, so the burden of proof falls on your shoulders

[lethal current]

Xd

Finish with u grazing monkey

[cosmic pelican]

Dodging I see

[crimson crater]

i don’t count? because i can kill them just fine

[lethal current]

Cry more and continue kill game

[lethal current]

U from Europe?

[crimson crater]

no

[lethal current]

Lets go to sandbox show me how u will kill

[cosmic pelican]

All Im asking for you is to hop on an admin server and kick my grazing ahh on teno

[lethal current]

As i think, finish with u, all what u can kill it is afk Teno just download game yesterday

[lethal current]

Say me server name

[cosmic pelican]

Euomni

I have admin there

[lethal current]

sec

"Client disconnected"

Brocken server

[cosmic pelican]

This is the one

[lethal current]

I understand

I tried log to him 2 times

I get client disconnected window

[cosmic pelican]

Ig its whitelisted then

[lethal current]

How?

What mean whitleasted

[cosmic pelican]

Only certain people can join

nvm I cant join either lol
probably crashed

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah let it restart

[cosmic pelican]

its up, spawn a teno when youre in

[cosmic pelican]

still cant connect?

[keen plover]

How’d it go

[cosmic pelican]

He never showed up, but I took his advice and fought some tenos on an admin server, only lost once out of like 6 fights vs 2 different people

Currently editing it into a video just so no one can say I made it up

[thorn mountain]

wow

I cant say im not suprised

[keen plover]

Classic

[mint star]

even if you did, he'll still say "they are not real players" or something and continue dying on his hill

[cosmic pelican]

If he does, the only person to blame would be himself, I gave him the chance to prove his point, the fact he never did isnt my problem lmao

[dusky surge]

U lying or fought bots, grazing boy cry more and keep kill game xd

[cosmic pelican]

🔥

[dusky surge]

the fact he never showed up is so funny tho lmao, although i totally called it

[cosmic pelican]

https://youtu.be/NTVpLP_0NNg @lethal current There you go, 2 different people on an admin server, no bile used, only lost once out of 5 fights.

(I wouldve won the last fight if I had bile)

((Video isnt public, so Im not self advertising))

[steep gazelle]

This is fake! How did you kill the Apex killer Tenonto with the poor weak Cerato?? 😭😭

[crimson crater]

it’s all an elaborate scheme to hide the truth. paid actors to make cera look strong

[cosmic pelican]

I have been exposed 😔

[slim dragon]

Reminds me of some guy I played against in For Honor once

I and this guy were both playing shinobi in 4v4
Kept calling me bad for whatever reason
At some point some other dude in the lobby told us to sort it out in a duel
When we got there he feigned to not notice me and try to chip away at my health with area attacks
After a while I decided that was enough and began attacking him back
At which point he ran away and claimed I attacked him by surprise, and started running away whenever I was around

[eager saddle]

man I get a stroke every time I come back to that conversation T_T

[maiden temple]

Hell I'm a noob cera and can wreck a casual teno What are we even talking about

Still doing pretty well on carno too, but I need bushes for my tactical ninja moves

[maiden temple]

You what

[steep gazelle]

Its better Don't even try to argue with him xd

[maiden temple]

You're probably right

[naive hemlock]

Anyone have locational damage values? i know body hits are flat damage.

[steep gazelle]

Head- 1.5x or 2x (Only stego), Body 1x, Tail - It can reduce damage from 50% to 90% depending on where on the tail it was bitten

But often tail hits count as body hits because of desync

[naive hemlock]

And imagine ceratopsians have reduced headshot damage and smaller tail hit boxes right?

[steep gazelle]

Yes, Trike and Diablo take less head damage

Pachy too

[naive hemlock]

gotcha gotcha gotcha. i appreicate you lad.

[hasty coyote]

Trike and Diablo take 1/4th damage to the head and no bleed, 1/8th while blocking. Pachy also takes like 3/4ths damage to the head (number may be slightly off but I know it’s a slight reduction)

[naive hemlock]

so 0.25 and .75?

[naive hemlock]

Also i heard that blocking also reduces damage taken while trike and dibble. do you know those numbers by chance?

Also i appreciate the help from the two of you hard to find this info by simply googling seeing as how everything is super out dated on youtube

[hasty coyote]

I know it reduces damage to the head from 1/4th to 1/8th, I’m not sure if it reduces damage to the body though.

[hasty coyote]

Np, it’s def not easy to find (if it exists at all), best way to find it is through testing or asking here lol

[maiden temple]

I think it's head only, but didn't test anything in a while :c

Testing stuff yourself is the way to go, everything changes very often and some changes are surprises

[crystal stream]

I heavily agree with this

[crystal stream]

I agreed so much I made my own post saying the exact same thing pretty much

Hopefully the devs will care if there’s two 😂

[crystal stream]

let’s keep this train going 😂

Hate to say it but a lot of it also has to do with the player base a lot of balance changes are do to complaints from people that may or not be actually good at the game from a PvP standpoint jst wanting to win because they think it might be unfair when in reality it’s not that bad if you know how to play the game the other side is the devs doing random changes nobody definitely asked for

[obtuse ocean]

I downvoted, cus i dont know what you mean with unfair? Its a survival game, not a pvp game. Meaning you can be absolutely gutted in a fight without any chance or any fair pvp fight. Not cus your bad, meaning herrara can destroy you as omni in the right situation.

[lethal current]

Even not start, now run bunch of girls that will tell to u, that carnivores cant do nothing to herbies it is okay game balance and all cool

And will say that carniv need nerf

Big part of community it is just girls that grazing and want chating with smiles ))))) and that no one dirty carniv cant disturb them

If Rexx on release will good enough they will crying for nerf him that he cant do nothing too, they not interest in balance and fun game, they interested that Herbie be OP and carniv be unplayeble and can kill just other carniv

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
I agree with the knockdowns and hate artificial cooldowns on some abilities (unless they're part of an animation which makes sense), but some fights should just be.. death.
Some mistakes you can only make once, which is essential for a hardcore survival game - you'll know better next time, when you're reincarnated again

This is a very odd roster to balance around, with all the stat jumps

[maiden temple]

You can put your point across without hating women btw

[eager saddle]

''Big part of community it is just girls that grazing and want chating with smiles '' yo dont let this guy know what kind of games I play, it would shatter his world

[maiden temple]

[viscid mica]

Share the drugs cuz they be doing gods work for you gang

Most chill and chat herbi groups are old ah dudes

Not that a baby to the isle would know that

[cosmic pelican]

Got me rolling on the floor LMAO

[viscid mica]

Na bro I pulled this up looking for something silly but I wasn’t expecting the whole ass clown car

[eager saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/jeff-the-land-shark-jeff-marvel-rivals-absolute-cinema-gif-13695558822116321078

[thorn mountain]

Im stealing that

[eager saddle]

be my guest xD

[viscid mica]

[analog mirage]

People often use the excuse of “well it’s a tropical island” for grazing to provide as an infinite food source supporting megaherding

Or that “you wouldn’t attack a rhino would you” for trike to one tap things its own size

[eager saddle]

I hear island, meaning it ends somewhere meaning so does the food

[analog mirage]

There comes a point where balance needs to be a priority over realism

But of course that means I just want PVP, silly me

[viscid mica]

We don’t even have any carnivores on land rhino sized lmao

[eager saddle]

I WISH people wouldnt attack rhino's, they are suffering enough as it is 😦

[cosmic pelican]

Vanilla finally uniting the community 🙏

[thorn mountain]

lol

[eager saddle]

''the enemy of my enemy is my friend'' aaah

[analog mirage]

It just frustrates me how so many people use realism as an excuse for poor game design

[maiden temple]

Bringing back the bad diet debuffs would be enough tbh, at least it would be easier to kill them or get away from them since it nerfed all resource regen, 25% less damage output AND made you see worse in the dark

[eager saddle]

agreed but it would also punish a lot of people not doing it

[viscid mica]

Bro showed up and has done nothing but awful takes from a clear lack of experience

[eager saddle]

I mentioned I had more than his hours. But bro shook it off saying it didnt matter

then why do your 100 matter then 😠

[analog mirage]

The issue here is that people could still create massive megaherds. Sure I may have a plethora of debuffs but what’s a Rex doing to 6 “weaker trikes

[maiden temple]

lol 100

[thorn mountain]

its birdbrain

[eager saddle]

my thoughts exactly

[keen plover]

It wouldn't be enough imo. Some creatures are just too large and powerful for debuffs to truly matter

[eager saddle]

''rules for thee but not for me''

[thorn mountain]

hi bird

[eager saddle]

sup bird

[analog mirage]

I believe the best alternative is to just completely rework grazing so that it slows down food drain.

Still acts as a way to keep moving but isn’t giving you food

[viscid mica]

100 doesn’t even qualify you as experienced lol

[maiden temple]

Could adjust the debuffs more, or make them different for carnis and herbis. I do want it to be punished this way though

[keen plover]

hello tho lol

[viscid mica]

The reason is simply people will stop playing herbi if it gets to hard

[eager saddle]

1000%

[viscid mica]

The easier herbi is the more That will play it

[analog mirage]

How dare herbivores have some level of difficulty

[maiden temple]

Hell having your food or water decay faster would be enough for big stuff. They'd have to live the teno life, looking for water every 25 mins

[eager saddle]

I know that and you know that but some people dont 😦

[keen plover]

OMG YES

[viscid mica]

100 is Barely enough to fully grow everything once

[eager saddle]

damn I didnt think my isle hours would surpass my arma 3 hours

[analog mirage]

Also another thing, but it’s almost like people shouldn’t be able to flock to large herbivores and turn their brains off to grow

Like herbivores are never gonna be hard to grow

But you can give them some level of difficulty

[viscid mica]

If I’m being honest from my perspective carnis can basically do the same but maybe that’s my hours being biased

[mint star]

what if they were all really loud

[analog mirage]

If we are talking about AI, ai doesn’t support large carnivores like Allo and Rex (I hope) and they have to hunt larger animals

[maiden temple]

They should be easier to grow to attact more players towards them, they provide food and the ecosystem ideally should be made mostly of herbis so we have stuff to hunt. Most of the playerbase are still carnis, despite herbis being easier

[analog mirage]

It’s also not infinite as it requires spawning in and finding it again. Which all comes down to just good spawn logic

Obviously if it continuously spawns yeah it’ll be infinite food

[viscid mica]

But they can still easily grow to a easily competitive size on Ai

Taking on small herbi is easy enough

Plus imma be real Ai will pretty easily suffice for allos to get going

[analog mirage]

Smaller carnivores or herbivores nearly never starving is fine because they are small and don’t need to sustain themselfs with much

The issue comes when larger animals have to. Which in theory works for a Rex, but doesn’t for a trike because grass has completely different food logic than plants

[analog mirage]

To grow sure, but I doubt it should be actively living off it. At least not very well. Allo shouldn’t have any Ai on its diet

[viscid mica]

I disagree

[thorn mountain]

removing grazing would lead to herbi competition for food perhaps (if they remove or rework patrols)

[viscid mica]

Boar on the diet is fine

[analog mirage]

Rework it

[analog mirage]

Why does Allo need Ai on its diet

[viscid mica]

Fresh spawn ain’t big enough to do anything to anyone lol?

[analog mirage]

There it is

[viscid mica]

????

[analog mirage]

Lemme explain

[eager saddle]

you can put boar on juvi diet and then remove it.

Same happens with mushrooms

[viscid mica]

That’s fine too I honestly don’t mind Ai being on a juvi diet thing tbh I’d prefer that

[analog mirage]

The issue is that most adults have things on their diets for their juvies. The problem is that those diet options don’t fade away with growth

I have absolutely zero problems with juvies having easy time growing off Ai. Adults should not (unless you are like one of a few species)

That’s the core issue

[viscid mica]

K then why not just say that instead of being all… that about it.

[analog mirage]

My bad

[maiden temple]

Grazing doesn't provide diet food and only gets you to 25% (or 30%?) food tops, it could maybe provide less for adults (let's say 5% tops) but it is a good mechanic - especially with cera in the roster where you need to graze sometimes because looking for food midfight is not an option

[viscid mica]

Bro made it seem like he caught me in some wild hypocrisy

Got me all like “whadddtid I do”

And I didn’t do anything mannnn

[analog mirage]

But my point is that Allo shouldn’t be eating Ai for nutrition. Which unfortunately isn’t gonna be a thing for any carnivore until diet options fade with growth

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

So long as baby’s can I mean

[analog mirage]

The options are there for juvies. The negative outcome is that they have it for the adults

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[analog mirage]

If Ai options just faded after reaching like Sub. That would fix most of it

[thorn mountain]

I mean rn diet debuffs dont exist so you can get away with 0 diet at adult. It is a nice mechanic I even have had ideas for it but it would make it more OP. Like a rework would be nice for it though instead of having infinite food since it really only benefits plains animals

[viscid mica]

I’m down

[maiden temple]

Yeah I don't like the lack of punishment for poor diets

I miss having different diet combos as well, but that's a whole another discussion

NV diet would go hard with current nights

I just want to see if I'm about to walk off a cliff at night pls

[eager saddle]

yeah but that should be a default thing

[maiden temple]

it should, my teno is legally blind at night

I wanted some hardcore mutations you can be born with but that's not IT

[lethal current]

Where u see that i hated woman?

[lethal current]

U not understand no matter for them on realism or somnething else. They will defend all aspects that do them unkilleable and no matter what it will. Each time they will more and more clown description why carniv must be unbeliveable weak but Herbies unbeliveable strong

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback-discussion message
#balance-feedback-discussion message
#balance-feedback-discussion message
#balance-feedback-discussion message

[lethal current]

Where hated womans here?

[maiden temple]

Use your imagination

[lethal current]

Girls just want more peaceful chating gameplay

[maiden temple]

Says who?

[lethal current]

Thats why i named people that grazing girls

[lethal current]

Evolution or God i dnt knw choose what better for u

[maiden temple]

bro what

[dusky surge]

goddamn we got the whole-ass misogyny catalogue

[lethal current]

It is not i created girls less agressive than mans

Why u ask from me

[dusky surge]

im not even going to TOUCH whatever this is

[maiden temple]

That's some 1920s* narrative

[dusky surge]

like goddamn man is going for it

[lethal current]

It is not "narrative" it is reality around u

[thorn mountain]

wth

[maiden temple]

Absolutely not LMAO

[lethal current]

Okay babe life in pink world from ur imagination

[maiden temple]

You're definitely not friends nor around any girls

[thorn mountain]

vanilla you cannot defend youself here mate

[lethal current]

I not defend

Defend need from smth

I have no atack on me for defend

[dusky surge]

it's like he's trying to get himself banned with the misogyny bonus

[lethal current]

Here no admins

[thorn mountain]

this is just crazy

[thorn mountain]

it doesnt take that much to ping one

[lethal current]

Okay can ban me

It is not change reality anyway

[thorn mountain]

im not going to

[dusky surge]

i feel like reality is a very loose term for you

[lethal current]

Like example girls weaker than boy

It is reality.

[thorn mountain]

depends on the person lol

[lethal current]

Girls less agressive than boys, it is reality

[thorn mountain]

also depends on the person

[lethal current]

Man u totaly brainwahed by modern propaganda

[dusky surge]

Wow just straightout LMAO

[lethal current]

I even dnt know what answer on this

[thorn mountain]

im a guy 💀

[crimson crater]

what does that have to do with a virtual dinosaur game

[lethal current]

Ye i understand it from all ur messages

[thorn mountain]

yeah

[keen plover]

this is so dumb

[thorn mountain]

yep

[lethal current]

Guy xd I think u write one litter wrong in this word

[lethal current]

Nothing, it is not I start this theme

[lethal current]

U really think that girls and boys on equal lvl on strength and other body haracteristicks?

[dusky surge]

that is a question genuinely not worth answering on the isle discord for a PLETHORA of reasons

[lethal current]

I just cant belive that people like u exist, think they can be just in gyperbolized comedy or smth

[analog mirage]

What does genetic anatomy have to to with the isle

[torn egret]

Why are you comparing feminism to Tenos?

[thorn mountain]

you see female and stego plates

[lethal current]

I comapring feminism to Tenos?

[dusky surge]

he believes that all women are passive herbi players that graze and chat i guess

[lethal current]

Wat? XD

[crimson crater]

y’all have completely lost the plot

[torn egret]

You are using the dumbest arguments known to man for a dino game

[dusky surge]

listen man idk what's going on anymore idk why it derailed to this

[analog mirage]

I see

[lethal current]

I didnt say this. In MIDDLE woman more passive than boys. But it is not mean that each woman more passive than each boy

[analog mirage]

Like I get your point that some people just wanna graze and be untouchable.

[thorn mountain]

the is #balance-feedback-discussion not lets compare each gender

[lethal current]

U start it

[thorn mountain]

I never started it

I just joined in.

[lethal current]

Who started said about my misoginism?

[dusky surge]

my brother in christ it was you who started calling people "little girls" for disagreeing with you

that is objectively you starting it

[thorn mountain]

[glass berry]

Aaaaaand enough of that, get back on topic.

[analog mirage]

🍿

[torn egret]

Admin inbound o7

[analog mirage]

I think the original message was supposed to be: some people don’t want to play a survival game, want to graze all dat chilling and being in untouchable herds

Yeah that’s pretty true

[crystal stream]

So you think the game should be if your stronger you always win no matter what there is no skill needed in a game where your main interaction with most players is to hunt or be hunted

Like bro saying it’s survival game doesn’t justify bad balance

[analog mirage]

Part of the issue is lack of roster variety. Some things could use adjustments here and there

But the biggest issue I see is how growing herbivores (regardless of size) is braindead easy

Like in terms of what you actually have to do, growing a troodon is Harder than growing a triceratops (only grows longer)

[obtuse ocean]

Yes, what skill you reffering to? If something hunts you example herrera and your omni. It can destroy you, dont mean the herrera is stronger then omni. Its just better in a situation and should get rewarded to get into a position it can use its power.

[crystal stream]

The example ur using can be easily disregarded however saying jst because a playable has the ability or is stronger means its supposed to win all the time no matter what really makes the game feel so restricted and not fun esp for the predator mainly talking about herbivores carni v carni should always just be excused because it really shouldn’t be happening as dondi mentioned mainly making diets more herbivores based

And carni v carni although should happen for competition rights but down right making a playable or hell a whole half of the roster pretty much restricted into only hunting carni because there not strong enough is very bad for balance fun and freedoms sake

[obtuse ocean]

How can my example be easy disregarded ? You want all the be equal? Some will destroy others, just like most dinos have pros and cons. And its a skill to use them to your advantage.

[crystal stream]

A Dino should take skill no matter what type of ability it has herra has a skill or ability to climb trees and kill a Omni like that a Omni could kill a herra arguably easy with its pin that’s what I mean by disregarded

[obtuse ocean]

Yes, so whats the problem then ? It depends on the situation and skill.

[crystal stream]

You mentioned that matchup 😭😭

Not every matchups like that

[obtuse ocean]

True, but what matchup do you mean ? I get that a fight between carno and teno etc, is not gonna be a quick fight

But that was the point, some will actually just straight up kill you. And some fights you wanne avoid

[crystal stream]

The entire herbie roster can kill all carni in the game except for a select few and you think that those herbies should always win no matter how good you are or how bad unless the fight is heavily situational Carni loses 90% of the time simply because something’s stronger I get some things being untouchable like ofc troodon v fg trike but for the most part most matchups are severely one sided making the game feel restricted and unfun to play

[crystal stream]

If we had it your way every player interaction would be a script almost no actual freedom or fun in the air jst a crappy ecosystem that doesn’t make any real sense

[obtuse ocean]

To many playables for that, i would say whay you are saying is bad balance. You want carno to go 1v1 vs a dibble? Solo omni shouldt be going for something that big, but a pack can.

[crystal stream]

No there’s not to many playable everyone playing the game is a human being not a fictional dinosaur there not going to want to hunt and behave like the Dino and be restricted to what it can and cannot hunt and bad balance ties into it also I don’t remember ever saying I want carno to 1v1 dibble however there should be better balance if a carno was insane and good it should be able to if the dibble is trash same with the solo Omni if the dibbles trash then yeah the solo Omni should be viable

[obtuse ocean]

It will be alot more playables in the future, with alot of diffrent playstyles. And some will have quick fights, some will not. You are not restriced to anything, you can go and hunt whatever you want. If you wanne go for a rex as cera you can, just dont say the rex is op when it bites you. Since you could avoided it.

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/pikanod-gif-17687159938092547682

[torn egret]

Ah, The great "balance debate"
One of the many topics that has the most varied of opinions lol.

My hot take:
The game actually isn't "difficult" enough.
The stamina, bleed, and heal factors are too forgiving tbh.
Too many people want to be able to "fight off everything" or win every fight if they have enough skill.

Look at what happened to Carno over the years. It went from being a true "small game hunter" to now being somewhat confined to Juvies, and Dilo and smaller. because of its lowered size and charge reworks.
You'll still find people that can take the current Carno and run servers with it etc.
But then people bring up the dreaded "1v1 argument", because for some reason, they want to take dinos out of the Niche they were given to play like "Scavenger turned psuedo-apex", Or taking Carno against a fg dibble.
TBF, Nothing in this game should ever have a 50-50 chance to win a fight, and the sooner we all come to terms with matchups we just won't win, (Because this is a survival game not PvP) then the horrid rebalancing and breaking of dinos can stop lol.
This is coming from a Troodon Main, Where I should be losing like 75%-90% of my 1v1s and hunts.
As playables get bigger, we will likely see less of the small- mid tiers (Troo to Rap/dilo, and Hypsi - Pachy on the Herbivore side)
So I hope this game gets "more challenging" to work as a "great filter" to the AFK growers and stops thinks bigger than Cera/Carno from literally getting FG on AI alone.

[ivory abyss]

@distant prairie troodons whole thing is that it can stay in sancs for its whole growth and kill juvis

[distant prairie]

Oh I'm aware that it was intentional. My problem is that people actually think thats the whole point of Troodon. They dont hunt. They camp 2 locations till they die. Its created a toxic gameplay loop. Troodon was fine before sanctuaries existed.

[ivory abyss]

Welp troodon is supposed to hunt mostly juvis and it gives players more fear when the go into a sanc and not just free food and and nothing to worry about

[soft mantle]

@sudden reef tho i agree that realism is a thing, it's not a fun game if a game would be totally realistic, and u forgot the classic example of any animal biting or slashing the throat or any vital spot from another and simply die of bleed or infection, look at stego, any carnivore from cerato size or bigger would instantly kill it with 1 headshot bite, does it make sense? Yes. Should it happen in this game? No.

[ivory abyss]

Also troodons aren't to hard to fight against as a juvi at least if your not fresh spawn for example maia or teno

[distant prairie]

You can still hunt juvies and not be allowed inside the sanctuary. Plus I said a 100% so you just have to leave the trees at full grown

[ivory abyss]

I still think it should stay the same

[soft mantle]

@sudden reef Desync is a thing and Maia already has horrendous hitboxes, a predator should not be penalized with an instakill from a wombo combo that didn't even hit it, not right now at least

[sudden reef]

not sure about the hitboxes and desync, but I can agree with the other points

[distant prairie]

It sounds like youre saying starvation and injury from taking bad fights should be part of the skill and gameplay of the isle. I agree but I think the other species mains will never get there. They just switch to playing something bigger.

[torn egret]

But I think that can be fixed with 2 simple changes, The harsh stamina system when Gateway first came out where regen was WAY lowered, (and infinite alt attacks were not a thing),
and the lowering of heal factors across the board (With a rework to reward those that rest for extended periods of time).
It's funny because someone told me that, (Just as an example), that the Troodon venom is unfair/not realistic, because of how it can take down super large prey. Despite Troodon being at risk of dying with every attack and can pretty much ONLY make 1 mistake, its def a problem when (bigger is easier).
Look at the Cera/ Carno conundrum. Carno has been constantly downsized, Cera buffed up etc. and it's because of the Roster that was released in the order it did. A pack of Dibbles, Maia, and Tenos can do more/better hunting and killing than the current carnovore roster, and have no counters until Allo/rex imo.
Another counter that could fix* the current state would be speed and turning nerfs across the board for everything Larger than a dilo (Save Carno, give old speed please lol)
I'd love it if my Raptor, dilo, troo, and Carno felt like I actually had speed and options, but the ironic "balance" of everything being 35-45 kmph is not great

[torn egret]

Troo is more fun outside of sanctuary,, (least what I do)
but I get why people camp it.
Not that fun when you feel everything has a better chance of winning even if you hunt as a pack

[hasty coyote]

@sudden reef the issue with buffing Maia’s damage to that degree is the fact that Maia is balanced around having relatively low damage. Due to the fact that it’s 3.8 tons, runs as fast as an Omni, and has cc, Maia is counterbalanced with having decent stam costs, low acceleration, low agility, and low damage. With the way you are putting it, you want stomp to go from 2 attacks of 175 (350 total) to 2 attacks of 500 (1000 total) which would be insane. That would mean Maias could run down diablos and allos with that kind of damage, let alone bully anything smaller with ease. Maia is already borderline op if you play it well, since it’s both faster than most the roster and runs them down. And if you start losing a fight, just turn around and run away.

Also the trike comparison doesn’t work for the same reason to why Maia doesn’t need the damage: speed. Pretty much anything getting attacked by a trike has chosen to fight it, since trike is the slowest thing in the game. While maia gets to choose what it wants to stomp to death or just run from. Also trike thrash is absurdly op, that thing does WAY too much damage (it deals like 3k to a knockdown target, it should be like 1500-2000 max imo)

Though I agree somewhat with pachy damage, but that thing is so horrendously balanced overall it needs a fracture rebalance before it can be good lol.

[torn egret]

Why do players go-to for fixes always, "More damage!!! I wanna 3-5 tap everything minimum!!!"
Maia is weak solo because of the damage output, but like you said, the speed, cc and etc.
Everything in this game already has too much speed, (Maia is fine imo, but Teno, dibb are too fast)
Pachy needs love lol, but it can't be balanced for 1v1s because it's the same boat as Maia, where it supposed to be in a herd to deter anything from coming in. Maybe have fractures happen "easier" and more of a penalty when fractured/hit on fractured areas?

[torn egret]

The game is meant to be a difficult as a Carnivore because its naturally a riskier life. Constant competition for hunting grounds, higher risk of injury etc.
The reason it feels out of balance rn, is because the carnivore list we have is already "Niched".
Carno is going to be a small game hunter, going after FG raptors, Dilo, Pachy, and also anything under its weight juvies included. (Hope we see 1.8T Gobbler Carno for example to help w that)
Cera is supposed to be a corpse collector, cleaning up the messes of other Carnivores.
The 2 BIGGEST land dinos rn have no place hunting anything bigger than them because they aren't supposed to.
Raptor, Troo, and Dilo are meant to "punch up" in terms of weight etc and have mechanics that compliment that.
That being said, I have killed bigger things as every playable, so skill will ALWAYS be a factor.
But you can't have a level playing field for PVP, because naturally bigger things will always be better.
Troo is a great example. Highest skill floor and ceiling of the playables rn because of its "glass cannon" niche.
Allo and rex come out, I'm willing to be Cera mains are gonna be mad they can't fight off a rex, or outrun allo lol

But thus is the natural state of video games.
Players want balance* and confuse that with freedom of PVP in this Hardcore survival game if that makes sens

[crystal stream]

Yeah this game kinda sucks lowkey so im dropping it anyway

From dumb neiches to straight up bad balance this game is not at all what I thought it was going to be

Very waste of potential

[torn egret]

Just because its not PVP doesn't mean it sucks lol.
Just not the right game for you

I hear alot of folks go to POT because they want combat etc

[crystal stream]

The game doesn’t have to be PvP but the way the Dino’s are represented jst is very crappy

And ofc PvP is a big deal in a game mostly about hunting

[torn egret]

Not really,
Just hard lol.
PvP is not hunting. And unless you can change that mindset the game is just going to be too hard for you.
PvP is a fair fight, hunting is not

And this is a survival game anyways, so its not gonna be "fair"

[crystal stream]

lol pot is a lil bad to with its dumb ability’s there starting to but out it’s getting outa hand lol

I don’t want every fight to be fair

I never said that

I want it to be more skill based

Not jst oh im stronger i win even if there really bad

[torn egret]

Ikr lmao (POT get apples to grow apex lol)
The Isle has the best combat hands down. The game is already heavily skill based tho

[torn egret]

What matchups in particular you talking about?

[crystal stream]

It had the best combat hands down then ruined it

[crystal stream]

I hate to say it but carno v teno and dibble v cera Stego v anything all had fun engaging strategies that are lost due to bad balance

[torn egret]

"Bad balance" means what tho?
Time to kill? ways to kill?

[crystal stream]

Ways to kill more so

Certain strategies that make it possible but not necessarily guaranteed

Like tail riding with cera just baiting out alts and following the butt of a dibble was fun and tbh still possible but after one mistake it takes all your health now

And don’t get me started on poor carno oml

They killed my boy

I get cera v Carno was unfair but destroying Carno that much is insane

[torn egret]

Thats survival hunting for you.
Dibble is almost 3x the size of Cera, it should die pretty quickly lol.
That's the skill, don't get hit, or hit better than your opponent.
(Carno needs to get back to1.8T and some speed, after allo is added back)
Als, Carno was not "supposed" to have fair fights w Cera.
It should lose those tbh (w current stats etc)
It wont ever be the terror it was in Legacy

[crystal stream]

And ik it didn’t really had a neich but it was fun more realistic and better but now we have a buggy tail chipping mess that gets destroyed after one knockdown

[torn egret]

Carno fights things smaller than it using the charge etc, The charge is mostly for that chip dmg on things similar in size and smaller...

RN it won't do well against teno unless its a 1v1 w a sub

[crystal stream]

Carno should be cera but ik they can’t because ceras sower it would be unfair so I’m fine cera being able to beat carno but teno being unfazed by them is not cool

[crystal stream]

Yeah it sucks

It’s buggy unfun to fight with and fight against

In no way was it ever better then old 1800 Carno with its cc that needs to come back

Jst because it has a dumb neich doesn’t make destroying it ok

Esp with allo and Rex coming in the roster

[torn egret]

Just cause something is "slower" doesn't mean it should insta lose a fight w Carno tho
Carno was pretty strong in the beginning, it will get buffed I'm sure once the new stuff gets added, but there's just not enough small to mid tiers to hunt rn

And btw, Carno is capable of 1v1 w bigger stuff. It's a skill thing.

[crystal stream]

No I’m saying cera should win because it’s slower it would be unfair otherwise

[torn egret]

Takes agees to kill things tho XD

[torn egret]

What???
No not at all XD
If a body, Cera should have the edge, out ion open Carno.
Its a situational thing. Playables are meant to be strong in certain ways tho