balance-feedback-discussion

[steep gazelle]

Of course I'm not saying this regarding the current state of the Cerato, but rather in a more balanced state for it.

[crystal stream]

Doesn’t even need to doge unless it’s a full charge ofc

[hasty coyote]

What do you want changed specifically with carno to help it deal with cera?

[steep gazelle]

Just make sure he can land the charge while Cerato is near a body

[crystal stream]

I’m more worried about teno because I’m not a huge fan of carni v carni fighting but that’s a personal opinion

[dusky surge]

imma be real, i genuinely think cera should be basically unapproachable for carno, because there's literally only so many carnivores on the total roster that cera can actually bully, and taking carno off that list limits it pretty hard lol

[steep gazelle]

Cerato still has an extreme advantage over Carno, and that's a good thing. But making it immune to Carno is bad for both Cerato and Carno.

[hasty coyote]

If carno physically can’t charge a cera by a body, that seems like a bug.

[crystal stream]

I wouldn’t even kinda if cera was

[hasty coyote]

Then what would you do to help it with teno?

[crystal stream]

Anything give Carno anything to make even somewhat viable I’m not saying it needs to steam roll teno just something to mark it possible

[steep gazelle]

This is probably not a bug. Now the stability of the charge bite and the body add up giving the Cerato 2.5t

[crystal stream]

I mean the truth is Carno isn’t to much it’s trying to be a small game hunter that can also compete with things in its weight class tho shouldn’t be this hard to reason with

[steep gazelle]

It's simple to understand, but some people turn a blind eye to the old Carno xd

[dusky surge]

for good reason

old carno was a balance nightmare

[crystal stream]

Ig I have a problem for liking old carno like it wasn’t that bad

[steep gazelle]

They want Carno to be a pathetic playable character at all costs

[dusky surge]

brother

how is carno remotely pathetic

is your genuine depiction of a worthwhile playable "how big of a thing can it kill"

because that really shouldn't be the metric

[crystal stream]

Forcing it to a neich that says to only hunt small things is a lil pathetic

[steep gazelle]

How could it not be? One of the only things that was fun to do with Carno before was that he could hunt Ceratos, now that is no longer possible. Not to mention that he is a bit bad at being a small prey hunter

[dusky surge]

that's the only thing you found fun about carno? no wonder you hate it now lol

[crystal stream]

Even cheetahs fast moving animals hunt animal about its size while also hunting small things it’s not a unheard concept

[dusky surge]

cheetahs are not carnos lol

[crystal stream]

Then it’s neich is dumb

[dusky surge]

how lol

carno's niche is dumb because it isn't a cheetah???

[steep gazelle]

Unless they turn Carno into just a monster that hunts smaller things, Carno will become a pretty pathetic playable

[dusky surge]

isnt that objectively what they're doing

[crystal stream]

Bro I’m not going to try to convince you anymore because your so hard on Carno being only a small game hunter that anything even remotely outside of that is a no no I don’t know what else to say to you

[dusky surge]

they're literally giving carno the ability to swallow small things whole, which very much gives off a "horrifying small destroying monster" vibe

[crystal stream]

Oh my hope he don’t kill my hipsi

[dusky surge]

why are you fixated on hypsi lol

[crystal stream]

Oh no my dryo

[steep gazelle]

This is a pathetic skill and it won't make any difference lol

[crystal stream]

Wait maybe my galli

[dusky surge]

yes, because those are the only two small animals in the world

[crystal stream]

Oh my god please not my pachy

[dusky surge]

sorry what's wrong with it being a threat to galli and pachy???

am i missing something

[crystal stream]

It should be a threat why can’t it be a threat to teno

[dusky surge]

right, so if it isn't a cera, it's pathetic

if it isn't brawling things its size, it's a pathetic excuse of an animal

everything should be cera

[crystal stream]

Ceras already over tuned anyway

[steep gazelle]

More or less that

[crystal stream]

Plus teno

Don’t forget teno guys cmon now

[dusky surge]

it can be a threat to teno, just in groups, because it is adapted to hunt smaller creatures

[hasty coyote]

I don’t see any buffs you can give it that won’t just be constant stun and run (which isn’t really fun for either, especially with lag) or ruining some other matchup. Carno’s balance in general is volatile due to being both bigger and faster than many different things.

[crystal stream]

While yes but a solo Carno who detocates everything to try to hunt teno should lose no matter what is what I’m getting from this

[steep gazelle]

Carno being able to charge a Cerato near a carcass, being able to ignore the stability buff that is provided by the carcass would be something to do

[dusky surge]

personally i really like the idea of ram being replaced on swallower carno with the ability to literally just open its gaping maw and sprint right at you

if you're big, you just take a big-ish bite, but if you're small, you're getting picked up and DEVOURED. Even in a pack a carno can run in, literally devour you in front of your friends, and just LEAVE. Sounds insanely fun

[steep gazelle]

Cerato would still fear Carno but would still have an easier time killing him

[crystal stream]

I think he’s more talking about teno

Tbh I don’t rlly know what they could give Carno to be better at fighting teno but all I know is it’s unnecessarily difficult

[steep gazelle]

Teno? Well, I wouldn't mind making Carno ignore the stability bonus that the tenonto has after attacks. A tenonto who knows how to play well can kill Carno easily

[dusky surge]

ignoring stability bonuses isn't really a thing you can do

also the stability bonus was added BECAUSE of carno lol

[crystal stream]

Def that is very annoying how about fixing the hitbox and reducing Carno kockdown time

[hasty coyote]

I guess you could either make them not stack, make the corpse size scale the buff, give carno a specific interaction, or just avoid a cera charged biting on a body

[steep gazelle]

A Cerato or tenonto that is afraid of a Carno should simply learn to play instead of asking for a nerf for Carno xd

[crystal stream]

Witch it doesn’t need anymore

[dusky surge]

who is asking for a nerf to carno lol

[crystal stream]

Hate to say it but that even goes for old carno it just was a lot more in carnos favor than now but it’s not like teno and cera always lost

[steep gazelle]

You. Want him to be completely incapable of hunting things in the same weight class, Even Tenonto and Cerato have a big advantage over him

[hasty coyote]

I’d prob make the self stun on carno not affected by stability, but keep the stun inflicted based on stability. so you can still ram them, but you won’t stun them if they have that major of an advantage.

[steep gazelle]

I remember killing 2 Carnos with 1 single tenonto before the Carno nerf

[dusky surge]

i also advocated for a signifcant sizebuff to 2 tons, the ability to swallow animals up to 25% of its size, heavy stomach and nutrient benefits for doing so, and so on

but if we're only looking in the metric of PvP matchups rather than cool survival niches, every animal that isn't rex or cera is stupid and dumb

[crystal stream]

Hate to say again but it kinda was a huge skill issue lol

[steep gazelle]

Obviously, but it still happened xd

Carno had a long cooldown to use charge and suffered a lot from bleed and his stun time was very high

[hasty coyote]

That could be pretty cool, rather than charging, flipping, and then eating. Especially if they give it a roar effect as the charge ramps up so it’s easier to see the stages.

[dusky surge]

imagine how scary it'd be too lmao

you literally just see a mouth on legs approaching at DISGUSTING speed

[hasty coyote]

Imagine being a human dealing with that lmao

[dusky surge]

god yes

[crystal stream]

And a Carno that can hunt teno or cera wouldn’t lol

[dusky surge]

what

wouldn't what lol

[crystal stream]

Cera and teno always had ways to defend itself just nobody knew apparently petite peids got popular for being a “good” teno when nowadays anyone can play like him

Then again I never rlly watched his older videos but that’s what I’ve heard

[crystal stream]

Idk I’m just saying stuff lol

I love how we just did all this bickering but ik the devs will just continue to make Carno a small game hunter anyway 🫤🫤

[dusky surge]

i mean yea thats its niche idk what you expected lol

[crystal stream]

Bruh a niche doesn’t mean it can’t do literally anything outside of it cmon now it’s like herra can go on the ground because it can climb

[dusky surge]

it can hunt a teno, it just needs a group or to work hard at pulling it off

just like how a herrera can fight things on the ground, albeit not very well

[crystal stream]

Carno shouldn’t have to rely on being in a group to stand a chance and saying work hard to teno v Carno is a not giving teno enough credit

Good tenos are impossible

[dusky surge]

a dryo can kick the ass of a herrera in a brawl, and herrera is bigger

you know how the herrera gets around that?

it plays into its niche

[hasty coyote]

Tbh I think a good compromise could be making the charge itself ignore stability, but the cc from charge still be affected. So carnos don’t randomly stun themselves, but they also don’t stun the target either.

[regal valve]

Would be great

[hasty coyote]

It would still struggle dealing with tenos and ceras, but it wouldn’t just be impossible to deal with them.

[dusky surge]

idk that sounds like hell to program lol

like genuinely nightmarish

stability ignorance alone sounds horrible to try and make work

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s the only issue. Idk how they programmed cc and stability or even charge. But you could make charge look directly at weight rather than “stability modified weight” however, the cc from the attack would still look at “stability modified weight”

Since we only have like 4 playables that have stability modifiers, and most of them use them sparingly, it probably wouldn’t be too bad to change it to flag the “stability modifier” for future attacks that ignore or are affected by stability.

[timber tusk]

Why’d they nerf Pteranodon so hard??

[vale brook]

reading through this was fun because no matter what you said, they would read a completely different sentence

"buff carno to 2 tons, do x y and z"
"ugh u want to nerf carno..."

[dusky surge]

For some reason people hate hyperspecialised predators. I NEED my generalist murderkiller, and NO I won’t play allo even though that’s all allo is meant to be

[hasty coyote]

(even though the "specialist" carno actually has MORE prey species)

[true ginkgo]

ooh more perks people are asking to be removed.

but i never see suggestions for perks which could be added

really feels like the reception to that system has been poor which is a shame

[slim dragon]

I gave some ideas
#balance-feedback message

[true ginkgo]

❤️

nice to see someone actually suggesting new perks

i'm pretty much of the opinion that if you're advocating for the removal of some perks, at least suggest some to take their place.

[slim dragon]

Some of the mutations are so bad, having nothing is preferrable over having them though

[true ginkgo]

ones like photosynthetic can still be potentially reworked to apply to walk or trot speed, rather than run speed.

which keeps them useful, without being gamebreaking

[slim dragon]

yeah, that's been suggested many times as well

[elfin night]

Stego gang unite

This is tragic though

[slim dragon]

better now ?

[elfin night]

A bit

[regal valve]

Stego is fine, it's just Trike's trash that's too strong

[true ginkgo]

i mean, stego is kind of a mess even before trike got the insane thrash damage

it somehow needs nerfing and buffing at the same time

[regal valve]

Honestly Stego is fine as it is now for the time being

[steep otter]

tbh, trike will be MUCH less of a issue for stego them rex.

[arctic sigil]

stego does NOT need buffs

[true ginkgo]

ngl i'd much prefer stego at like 3 tons.

[true ginkgo]

it's going to need a speed buff to not go extinct once rex is in

or at least a stam buff

[vale brook]

honestly a small speed/running stam buff could be fine

[true ginkgo]

shame stegos model is so unsuited for sprinting without looking bad.

as far as I know, irl stego is the slowest dino we know of.

[arctic sigil]

it already has more stam than trike to run away, well see with rex

i think you meant to put it here https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865

[white spade]

Probably, tks XD

[viscid mica]

@timber tusk preach my brother

[maiden temple]

I hate that this is true, carno 1v1s were the most fun I've had lol

[elfin night]

Not just that

[viscid mica]

@round sigil you wanna know why Herrera weight absolutely nothing and are slower than everything else their weight (and even a lot of things bigger)

[maiden temple]

Camping on a tree is the whole hunting tactic, it's awful on the ground and very noisy

[viscid mica]

^^^

Loud foot steps too

[round sigil]

but its too much imo

[steep gazelle]

It's not xd

[viscid mica]

Not really

[elfin night]

Trike’s thrash is stupidly busted but overall it’s just a better steg in the very department Stego was supposed to excel at

And things look bad for stego and even the devs admit it with the arrival of rex

[viscid mica]

They are super easy to kill and have a sizeable stam regen

[elfin night]

Stego just has a pretty unoptimized kit, which is fair since it never had any serious threat

But it’s going to need changes soon

[viscid mica]

No? Steg is leagues better in self defence and dos monster

Thou the thrash do he abit much

[elfin night]

Steg is far worse at dealing damage or protecting others or holding a position

It’s gonna get slammed by anything above acro if it doesn’t change

[viscid mica]

Thrash won’t be very useful against anything trike can’t knock over

[maiden temple]

I didn't chase anything around a trike but I imagine it would be much slower to turn to save a babu than a stego, just by seeing the turn radius. Is the hitbox as annoying as dibbles?

I remember trying to snatch a baby stego from a dibble and getting sniped
Much worse than carno ever was lol

[elfin night]

So like 95% of the roster

[maiden temple]

What's the cutoff of the knockdown? I imagine it's a ton of weight since it's meant to stun rex as well

[viscid mica]

Why is 95% of the roaster that close to trike?

Matter fact WHY IS STEGO THAT CLOSE????

Everything except maybe anky will be faster than trike

Yall got no excuses

[maiden temple]

Do you think anky will be able to walk on the bottom of the lakes so I can bonk deinos?

[viscid mica]

And shant I can see shant being slow

[viscid mica]

It better

[maiden temple]

HAHA

[crystal stream]

Glad someone agrees lol I feel like lot of people don’t think carno should be able to fight teno at all 😭😭

[viscid mica]

All I think when I see anky is that old high school basketball ball chant

DEFENCE (2x foot stops) DEFENCE

[maiden temple]

It's too close in size not to be able to, sure it can excel as a juvi/adol hunter but it should still not be as laughable to teno as it is, especially when it ambushes

Even groups of 3 aren't that scary, especially with where teno would be found. Migration zones have tons of foliage and uneven ground or water to use

[maiden temple]

lol I feel like it will be a ton of fun to play, even though it's gonna be slow

The confused acros just looking at each other after it plopped down

No wait that's giga, the crest >:o

Eh idk

Either way haha

[regal valve]

Theyre Acros

[maiden temple]

Thanks 😄

[steep gazelle]

@royal delta teno is 0.1km faster than cera, not 4km

[dusky surge]

i swear to god it said maia before

[steep gazelle]

and, with the latest cerato buffs, he is 2x stronger than a tenonto now

[steep gazelle]

He made a suggestion about the maia and then edited it and put teno? xd

[royal delta]

It did say maia but i put the wrong dino, also the way I was juking those tenos there is no way they should have been able to catch up that fast, I was getting a good 50-60ft away before they were back up to speed, and they caught up mighty fast, the tenos also had a nest I respawned in and I asked them how badly I got them, and they said barely scratched them, despite the fact I bite each 3-4 times

[steep gazelle]

The tenontos may have a speed mutation, this increases their speed to 42km, but this mutation is available to everyone, including the cerato

[royal delta]

The chase lasted from late that day to the night, how likely is it that they had both night and day speed mutations

[dusky surge]

honestly? quite likely, speed muts are very meta

[steep gazelle]

if they are from a nest, there are high chances

[royal delta]

They had a nest, unlikely they were born in that nest tho considering they were FG

[steep gazelle]

they may have been born from another nest made earlier, this is not at all rare and difficult

[royal delta]

Damn so i just suck then, but still, even with mutations, still doesnt make it fair, I get that this isnt real life and a game but I still feel that being hunted by prey animals doesnt make for the best gameplay loop. I mean think about it, Not having to hunt for your food and being more offensively equipped than the largest predator is pretty OP, but that makes predator gameplay unfun and unenjoyable.

[dusky surge]

but a teno isnt more offensively eqipped than a cera

[royal delta]

Not by itself, it isnt, but have more than one teno and all of a sudden the cera cant do jack,

even if it doesnt wanna fight

its forced to and will lose 7/10 times

[steep gazelle]

Cerato is currently stronger than Tenonto and can handle it if played correctly. And, well, Herb is only prey when you are the one in control of the fight.

[royal delta]

Yeah but its hard to have control of a fight when you are being ran down by two FG teno and they are catching up to you.

[steep gazelle]

This happens from time to time, it won't always be in your favor.

[royal delta]

This isnt me complaining about 3 hours of my life gone, idc abt that, but they just proved how 2 mutations can beat a fg cera

[steep gazelle]

This is not a problem with tenonto or cerato but with the mutations, which really should be removed from the game.

[royal delta]

Agreed

[steep gazelle]

Damage mutations are pretty much the same thing, they should be removed too

[neon willow]

And this is why on pretty much every build designed around ground traversal you HAVE to take nocturnal and photosynthetic tissue. Because otherwise you WILL be run down by things you can't handle

As much as that meta stinks

[strong crypt]

Do really a cerato win vs tenon RN?? ive known this not to be the case for the longest time

even when tenon was winning they said nerf cerato

[strong crypt]

because they didnt like bile

[warm flax]

I would say it's 40:60 Cera/Tenno in a 1v1 situation
This ratio will vary depending on skill level, but tenno's win rate will drastically decrease if there is more than one cera

plus, its isn't fun if you are fighting 2+ cera, they can mess up your diet and stam and keep pursuing you

[strong crypt]

yeah well then we dont need to nerf cera rather buff other carnivores since the cera is the only one that can stand up to herbs atm

[warm flax]

well the Isle devs loves cera atm

[strong crypt]

i see people aswell are like i cant attack cerato on corpse as a herb and its like, u are litrally trying to grief him lol

[strong crypt]

do you know what the DMG reduction is now?

the fact is tho tenon still have more defensive abilities then cerato which means it can use enviorment to its advantage for the fights which cera cant

[warm flax]

right now, people play cera as an active predator instead of a scavenger
great scent range and swimming speed , its bleed resist got even stronger and still got that disgusting gastro heal

[strong crypt]

for sure gastro is busted but so is Tactile endurance for herbs

i see what ur point is its strong but thats only compared to other carnivores

[warm flax]

Gastro just promotes and encourages people to make needless kills even when they are full, and forces herbivore players to camp bodies, making the environment toxic
too many times you let them take their prize and they come back within 10 mins

[strong crypt]

yes gastro is bad addition but i thought we discussing if cerato broken or not?

for me this is truth near a body the cerato will win VS tenon

[warm flax]

combine with how easy to raise one It is the most played carnivore for a reason

But I don't think any of our arguments will matter.
It's been a long while, and the issues people complain about that affect the gameplay experience still exist

[strong crypt]

yes it is the most played one because only other one that is good is Dilo

for sure yeah xd all we can do is hope

[warm flax]

And now, things like non-existent fish spawns are happening again, and the devs are only fixing land AI without addressing the issue

[strong crypt]

For me the thing that would trimuph any balance fix or anything is servers that make the lagg. changing from peer-to-peer or client-reliant mechanics To a server-authoritative model with a lockstep simulation and deterministic game state

but i think it would be really expensive tho which is why it wont be done

.
from what ive seen the isle is a FAN PROJECT and people work on it for free if im not incorrect

[warm flax]

FAN PROJECT
I thought that was the game Saurian

[strong crypt]

maybe im wroing there just something ive heard

[warm flax]

the discord mods are volunteers

[dusky surge]

the game isn't peer to peer, idk where people get this impression

[strong crypt]

The lagg lol

[strong crypt]

do you know why the servers lagg so much (Dsync)

[dusky surge]

100 players + AI + weather + so on

It's a generally intense game

[strong crypt]

so your saying its unfixable and not a server issue?

[strong crypt]

from what i can find Desync in The Isle happens because the game relies heavily on client-side movement and animations

[dusky surge]

no

im saying it requires more work before we see notable improvement

[strong crypt]

from what i can find Desync in The Isle happens because the game relies heavily on client-side movement and animations. Do we agree?

[strong crypt]

this part i agree on tho since it is a procces

partial client-side hit detection with delayed syncing the problem i think

It’s like The Isle is doing a bad impression of lag compensation — it's trusting your opponent's story of what happened, without checking the facts.

[slim dragon]

This is absolutely false lol

[thorn mountain]

false.

[elfin night]

@royal delta I’m sorry, but you got brutally outplayed

Teno is only 3 CENTIMETERS PER SECOND faster than cerato, and its main weapons are on its rear, meaning that whoever plays defensive is going to have the advantage, even cera with the charged bite that can kill teno in 3-4 headshots

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/herrera-gif-6184379319352403749

[maiden temple]

@royal delta Are tenos nibling you to death? I'm confused

[obsidian yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-waynes-world-excuse-me-exsqueeze-me-baking-powder-gif-22047510

[amber wharf]

yeah, cera dominates tenonto 1 on 1... even 1 v 2, cerato can and will win that fight. 😂 What are you on about? Cerato is basically a freaking apex right now, with how the devs are putting it on a pedastool.

[steep gazelle]

@lyric ice Carno hitbox is smaller after the update that came from Hordtest, At least I noticed that during gameplay

[regal valve]

Nope, just tested it, it's still enormous

[steep gazelle]

For me the hitbox is much smaller, before it would hit very far away and now an Omni, Dilo or Troodon can dodge it very easily

I played as Troodon against Carno and was able to dodge without any problems, which was not possible before

[viscid mica]

@unreal crystal the reason that Herrera is slow is cuz it can climb

More vulnerable on ground in exchange for endless tree top Tom foolery

More speed means worse climbing.

Thus great climbing bad speed

(We don’t talk about how wrong hypsi been done in the speed department with a slow climb genuinely criminal)

[unreal crystal]

I think you are missing my point

[viscid mica]

I see no point

Just make it faster

[unreal crystal]

I'm not saying herra is slow I'm saying it's fast

[viscid mica]

Did I misread?

[unreal crystal]

Its basically a tree deinosuchus with 0 interaction with other dinos

[viscid mica]

I did

And of course mobile discor is scuffed as hell and can’t change reactions

Dammit

I was super backed up on feedbacks and was blitzing them

My bad OG

[crimson crater]

should be 43

[viscid mica]

Na he means make it even slower

[crimson crater]

shouldn’t be as fast as troodon means anything below 45 i’d assume lol

[steep gazelle]

I think this speed is fair for Herrera, He weighs only 175kg despite everything. Troodon and Dryo which should have their speeds increased to 46km

[untold coyote]

I think Steg tail quick attack should be usable while moving, especially now that trike is absolutely oppressive. Trike/rex should still win 1v1, but slightly increased mobility should help make steg not completely useless solo.

I get that it's a sub-apex, but that doesn't mean it should get dog-walked any time it runs into a trike or rex (soon ™). At least make it a spicy kill.

Steg should lose 1v1s to these guys, but not get absolutely dumpstered if they get tagged once.

Heck, a good trike player can trash stegs in 3/4v1s right now

That should not be the case.

[unreal crystal]

Correct

[unreal crystal]

Yes Herra is small but it also has its own unique niche , similar to deinosuchus in away

45 km/h for something that spends 95% of its time in the trees is alot

[edgy moon]

The only niche deinosuchus has in the current patch is starving to death

[unreal crystal]

Yeah I wouldn't touch deino this patch either tbh

[true ginkgo]

Yeah i really wish stego had a moving tail 'flick'

rear arc only, lower damage, but usable while running.

that way you can be sprinting away from the danger while making it a bad idea to chase

[untold coyote]

Considering all the ceratopsians can stun a steg from behind, and most of them that exist/are coming can run down Steg as well, having a viable tail attack that doesn't require you to stop is necessary.

The only moving attack Steg has is usable once, maybe twice per fight

[true ginkgo]

I really don't get why stegos super power swing is sprinting and forward facing.

Its most powerful attack requires it to sprint towards the apexes, when sprinting towards apexes is a really bad move.

it's an animal which should be encouraged to make a spicy retreat.

[untold coyote]

Especially with the headshot multiplier

[true ginkgo]

honestly the entire animal seems like it's unfocused and not sure what it's meant to be doing

[untold coyote]

It needs a little bit of a kit adjustment

I honestly don't think it's in a horrible spot

Just needs a tweak or two

But I think an efficient, lower damage moving swing would help a lot

[true ginkgo]

i'm the opposite extreme. i'd honestly like to see it pulled and then completely redone from scratch. Including the model.

[untold coyote]

I think Steg is meant to be a bruiser, but not a tank

[true ginkgo]

The model is from tail end of legacy, and seems more designed around realism than the evrima models.

So when it's doing a galloping sprint to flee from apexes, it looks really bad.

sames issues as ark diplodocus sprinting

[untold coyote]

Leave my floating lizard cow gallop alone

Also tail end

Steg

Haha

Yeah, if Steg is supposed to be able to fight apexes in any capacity, they either need to make its stand-and-fight ability better (which I think is a bad idea), or give it some more mobility relative to true apexes

[hasty coyote]

Steg is def a “glass cannon” for its size tier. Even after the trike buffs, steg deals 2x the damage of trike while having less than 2/3rds the hp and an increased headshot multiplier

[untold coyote]

No it doesn't

Trike can deal 6k with one thrash

And in all honesty, trike probably should do more damage than steg

But steg needs better mobility than it currently has.

If they increased its mobility, it could settle into a nice little sub-apex niche.

Doesn't need to deal the most damage

[untold coyote]

You saw the values for trike attacks, right? Steg barely clears 3k on a weak point hit with a charge swing, trike gets that on one thrash for significantly less stamina and setup. If you thrash the head, it's 6k, which is pretty easy to do when your opponent is lying on the ground. Trike deals 2x damage of steg lol

Unless you mean comparing a 6 ton trike to a FG steg, I don't know the exact values on that

But I'd wager the trike still deals a good chunk more

[hasty coyote]

I was referring to the basic attack compared to power swing, but yeah I forgot that thrash got buffed to an absolutely insane degree.

[untold coyote]

Smart Trikes are just using knockdown/thrash and backing off

But yeah, 900 damage for a no stam attack is still nuts

[true ginkgo]

on a headshot, the thrash one shots a full health standing stego.

don't even need to flip it

[hasty coyote]

Imo, the basic attack buff is good. The thrash being 2 attacks of 1500 is WAY too much

[untold coyote]

I think that all depends on rex stats

[true ginkgo]

2,000x2 now

3,000x2 on a downed target

[untold coyote]

Trike is being tuned to rex, not steg

[true ginkgo]

current trike numbers could flip a rex, then kill it in a single thrash headshot when it's down

[untold coyote]

Oh did we have initial rex stats?

[hasty coyote]

I I think those are the totals, because all the tests I have seen show that it deals 3k on a knockdown

If not then…

[true ginkgo]

no it's just the numbers are so insanely high, that the flip+headshot thrash kills any realistic rex numbers

[hasty coyote]

Yeah trike needs a major nerf

[true ginkgo]

it's been tested. one shot on the head of a full health stego kills it

standing stego that is

[untold coyote]

Yup

[hasty coyote]

Last we saw it’s 9350, so flip + headshot thrash = dead

[hasty coyote]

[untold coyote]

So, secondary point that most people would probably agree with, trike damage is way too high.

Primary point, add more mobility to steg, so it can wallop and run away

[hasty coyote]

What have they done to trike

[untold coyote]

Made it a god

[true ginkgo]

A trike flip + a headshot thrash ends up doing either 10,100 or 10,200 damage to a rex. Assuming rex has a normal headshot multiplyer

[untold coyote]

Also, remove tail flips

That is grade A male bovine excrement

[hasty coyote]

Or they could add higher cc thresholds on headshots. So a Rex running headfirst towards a stego is just gonna get stunned constantly.

[true ginkgo]

A trike can oneshot a standing stegos head by the time it hits about 75% growth

It can oneshot a flipped stegos head by the time it's about 50% of growth, and that's without the flip damage on top

[viscid mica]

With thrash

[untold coyote]

IDK, I really think just letting the quick swing be usable on the move would solve a lot of issues that currently exist with trike, and that may increase with rex

[viscid mica]

Ya yall are also able to like move away too….

[dusky surge]

Yea see that only works with trike, it’s foolish to think that Rex wont present the same issues as trike, but with the speed required to catch and kill stego

[hasty coyote]

Trike is gonna maul stego regardless of what you do to either. Trike just takes 1/4th damage to the head and dishes out solid damage.

[untold coyote]

yOu cAn jUsT rUn

No one is saying steg should be able to 1v1 a trike, we're saying it shouldn't be a 2 shot if you get hit.

[true ginkgo]

it's not about moving away. last patch trike still absolutely bodied stego.

but the stego still got to feel like it was doing something swinging its tail around a bit.

now it's just instigib

Stego should definitely flee from trike. no one is disputing that

[untold coyote]

Also, trike is fast enough that if you make even a slight turn they can hit you with a charge atrack

[true ginkgo]

Current trike numbers would let it do flip+headshot thrash to instikill a full health adult rex.

Can't argue that rex isn't an apex.

but it would still get instikilled

[viscid mica]

If Rex can pin stego one of the two will need a immediate change to compensate I’ll agree

[untold coyote]

Rex will be able to pin steg

[dusky surge]

It’s so weird how black and white some matchups are seen in this community

“Stego should have some chance of fending off Rex” is always interpreted as “YOU WANT STEGO TO EASILY OBLITERATE REX TOO???”

[true ginkgo]

The initial convo was about how stego should have a rear facing weak attack to use while running away.

[untold coyote]

Right?

[viscid mica]

Excuseeeeee me

We are playing a survival game not a PvP slasher

For honor or mordhau are around the corner

[untold coyote]

A 6 ton cow lizard shouldn't be 2 shot by anything

You walnut

[viscid mica]

How big is its head again?

[untold coyote]

Ha

[viscid mica]

And no one said it should be two shot you goob

[true ginkgo]

We still ignoring the fact that this instigib thrash applies to rex too?

[untold coyote]

Well, it is right now, pretty consistently

[viscid mica]

Trike won’t knock over Rex though but ya thrash is gnarly

[true ginkgo]

even if we delete stego from the isle right now.

the thrash is still a problem

[viscid mica]

No one said it wasn’t yes

[hasty coyote]

Last we saw Rex is 9350, so yeah it would

[edgy moon]

Revert the game to pre-trike patch until rex is ready

[viscid mica]

Trikes can know over stuff their same weight?

[hasty coyote]

Same cc scalings as Diablo

[viscid mica]

WHAT

[dusky surge]

No.

[viscid mica]

WHAT IDIOT

[untold coyote]

Dondi

[hasty coyote]

So trike can stun a cama if it’s under 19 tons

[untold coyote]

[true ginkgo]

current trike could literally walk up to a full grown rex, flip it, then one shot thrash it to kill

[dusky surge]

Trikes can knock over larger trikes lol

[viscid mica]

I’m not concerned about stun just to clarify it can knock them over over

[true ginkgo]

what's the knockdown threshhold again? 1.5x weight or something?

i can't remember the exact numbers

[hasty coyote]

It can knockdown anything equal or less than its weight

[true ginkgo]

potentially greater than its own weight if it's knocking over larger trikes

[viscid mica]

Fix trike knock over math and thrash damage

BUT my point still stands yall can still unironically walk away from trike as steg

[hasty coyote]

I haven’t seen that myself but I also haven’t fully tested

[untold coyote]

Except for when you can't.

[viscid mica]

You get caught as bb near giant loud potato?

Why are you near giant loud potato?

Why did you let it see you?

[hasty coyote]

Yes, we all agree steg gets mauled by trike. The issue is more the fact how badly you get mauled. Getting literally 1-shot or stunlocked to death are both WAY too harsh

[true ginkgo]

stego should definitely run from trike. it's mainly the standing instigib which I dislike. I dislike the flip kill, but it's less bad.

But trike can walk up to a full health 100% grown stego, press a single key, and it's dead. instantly

[viscid mica]

Indeed never said that’s not

[true ginkgo]

imagine if tenonto killed carno and cerato in one button click

[untold coyote]

That's exactly what you seem to be arguing.

[viscid mica]

2 keys actually but we get your point

[true ginkgo]

doesn't need to flip the stego first to kill it in one shot

[viscid mica]

Read my boy read

I’m simply saying trikes can in fact avoid the delete key

[true ginkgo]

thrash damage on a non-flipped stegos head is 8000

on a flipped stego it's 12,000 + 1,100 for the flip

[viscid mica]

If we go extreme scenarios and assume the stego is lobotomized and lets them walk up and HS thrash sure

[untold coyote]

Trike still keeps up well enough with steg that any change in direction can lead to a flip/thrash

Even if you're running

[true ginkgo]

sadly stegos most powerful attack is forwards aimed and sprinting. it's literally encouraged to put its head towards targets and sprint at them.

it's why i hate the sprinting power swing existing

it should have a rear facing lower damage attack to use while sprinting away from apexes.

[golden coral]

@true ginkgoSuggestion. Remove stego when rex is in, let them sort out that and similar matchups. When that's figured out, decide on where stego fits in, adjust where neccesary, if neccesary, and put stego back in.

[viscid mica]

^^^^^

[untold coyote]

That probably should happen

[true ginkgo]

i'm unironically a remove stego and rework advocate

[untold coyote]

As much as I would hate to not have steg playable

[true ginkgo]

the animal clearly has no idea what it's meant to be doing. its features are completely unfocused compared to how we're told you're meant to act.

[viscid mica]

If you start running 3 years after it’s a 2km difference potentially 3 plus your stam is leagues better

[golden coral]

Figure that might be a decent way to do it, since it'd let them settle better on where apexes should be in terms of power and matchups, rex vs trike should at least be something of an indicator, decent too with how powerful those two seems to be

And then they can settle on just where they want stego, and then look at what, if anything, needs to be adjusted for stego to work

[viscid mica]

How are they supposed to create a fair rework without seeing how it handles itself rn?

[true ginkgo]

Stegos rework provided it with attacks meant to assist with apexes.
Those attacks tell you to either hold your ground, or sprint directly at the target and hit it.
Stego is meant to flee from apexes.

So how did that rework make any sense at all?

[golden coral]

Are we absolutely sure those were meant for apexes?

[true ginkgo]

The devs are telling us to run from apexes, and giving us attacks which tell us to run towards apexes.

[golden coral]

Or is that just something people decided on because of the whole "how will stego survive" talks

[untold coyote]

Steg is supposed to be able to defend itself from apexes as it flees, yes

[golden coral]

Could be that the swing and power swing isn't meant for apexes but for allo/alberto and similar

[untold coyote]

As a sub apex

[true ginkgo]

(while lacking any attack it can use while fleeing)

[golden coral]

Right, not saying it isnt, just making sure it is why the power swing was added, and not just something someone made up

[hasty coyote]

That’s the entire selling point of power swing. That’s why it was aimed up, so it can perfectly line up with a Rex head.

[viscid mica]

It has that it’s the power swing that does 1800 damage

No attack will help it against a defensive beast like trike fix to thrash and stun capacity or not

[golden coral]

Because there's not that many apexes it can't run from, I guess it'd be giga, maybe? Possibly shant too, but I'm not sure thatll work out for stego either so

[true ginkgo]

the sprinting power swing is 2250

[viscid mica]

News to me

[viscid mica]

Must you sprint?

[hasty coyote]

I remember Don specifically pointing that out on stream

[viscid mica]

^^

[true ginkgo]

for the super powerful attack, yeah it's sprinting and side/forwards aimed

[golden coral]

Then it seems like you'd need some kind of rework of that, cause even if you do run up, line it up perfectly, it won't stun the rex, and even if it does, you'd not make distance enough from the rex before it can run you down, at least I doubt so

[hasty coyote]

For the sprinting one, yes

[true ginkgo]

which is activly telling players to sprint at danger

[golden coral]

Well yes, you must be sprinting, but you can have the tail raised and throw it out as soon as you're up to speed/accel or how it counts

[true ginkgo]

i'd honestly like the sprinting power swing removed.

[viscid mica]

No I mean like why must you have a strong attack while sprinting other than the power swing one

[golden coral]

It's not like carno where you need a certain amount of runtime

[viscid mica]

No that’s not what I meant yall misunderstood

[golden coral]

Cause the power swing one makes you go towards the danger

Putting your extra weak head there as well, plus the lack of stun power

[viscid mica]

I’m not talking g about doing the big attack

I mean why must you attack back while sprinting?

[golden coral]

So you'd run up, smack the rex, then it'll just keep going and knock you over/pinning

[hasty coyote]

Yeah the sprinting one is def odd design wise. It’s an inherently aggressive attack on a defensive dino.

[golden coral]

Well you don't have to, if you can run away. This seems to be more so if the power swing was given to fight back

[viscid mica]

No not exactly you can adjust position mid swing so you’ll be side to it or atleast off angled

[untold coyote]

As a deterrent, so a ceratopsian/rex/Allo doesn't just run up your ass and kill you

[golden coral]

Could have meant for smaller rexes

They're still probably quite tall

[true ginkgo]

#general-feedback message

Made this feedback ages ago. The idea being an attack which encourages you to move away from apexes.

Instead it got the sprint at apexes power swing.

[untold coyote]

You know, the part of a steg that's supposed to be dangerous?

[golden coral]

Yes, you do turn when using it, so you'd be looking/standing somewhat sideways I think, been a while since I played and used it. But if you're to also headshot the rex, then you'd stiill be very close to it. And with no stun, I'm not sure rex wouldn't just tank that, then headbutt stun/knock or grab and crush you, since you'll be plenty close for a rex at that point to run down, unless it literally takes a few steps and is out of stam or such.

And it does stop you in your movement too, so you need to start moving again from that position

[viscid mica]

Stop running and smack em

[viscid mica]

Ya you would have to follow up with power swings

The stam cost isn’t anything to sneeze at for the sprint either

Personally I would say you shouldn’t use the sprint on big things that can kill you though

[golden coral]

Yeah, it's really odd. I wish they'd remove that, finetune the jab angle speeds, and keep the standing swing. Let that one be used while walking/trotting, give raised tail stability, and basically play a "keep away" with rex or some such.

[golden coral]

For the power swing, isn't it like 15% for the running, 10% for the standing? Or did you mean something else?

[golden coral]

I agree, I think this is more so "if swing was added to be used vs them, it's badly designed for that purpose"

[viscid mica]

So the minimum you could do to get it to engage is 17%

[golden coral]

Which forces you to stand there, and well, leave you open to any retaliation, as we can see with trike

[true ginkgo]

trouble is rex is likely to be faster than stego.

[viscid mica]

Power swing is for the chunguses

[golden coral]

If you're just going to start running right before the swing, that sounds about right, yes

[viscid mica]

Rex doesn’t have reduced headshot damage

[golden coral]

Such as? Cause I can see it being good vs allo, alberto, and similar sized critters. Just not sure on rex or giga or even acro

[viscid mica]

And power swing allignment is on point

[true ginkgo]

but if rex has crush, stego will headshot it once, then get crushed to death instantly

[untold coyote]

The whole point, is that steg isn't in a place to stand and fight apexes. That's exactly what is shouldn't do. How it handles things like allos and smaller ceratopsians remains to be seen, but if it's anything like trike but faster, steg will be in a rough spot if it doesn't have something it can use to deter things from running up behind it while running away.

[viscid mica]

It is set high for reaching them heads

[golden coral]

So I've been told, but allo and alberto are probably also tall critters, so does it have to be a rex that it lines up to?

[viscid mica]

It isn’t in a place to fight trike

We have yet to see how it handles Rex

[untold coyote]

If it can't handle trike, there's no way it can handle rex

[viscid mica]

Rex is the top of it the swing starts high goes down thou

[untold coyote]

Did you see the videos of the devs using rex in HT?

[viscid mica]

Ah yes

If it can’t handle the god of defence himself

Certainly can’t handle something same size with 0 defence

[golden coral]

Rex should be easier, its just the speed + crush thats the concern

Otherwise rex is more "fragile" than trike, if you can call it that

[untold coyote]

I don't think you can lol

[viscid mica]

Rex is a significantly easier fight for stego that trike is

[golden coral]

Hey, don't forget anky btw, I imagine it'd be even better at defense

[viscid mica]

Na na you valid I take it back

Trike a Demi god

Anky the og thou

[viscid mica]

You really can thou it doesn’t have defence like trike do

[golden coral]

Would be best if stego could just run from all the apexes, easiest solution

Even if we have to deal with ugly running xD

[hasty coyote]

Nah there’s a major difference between the 2. Trike takes 1/4th damage to the head but Rex takes 1.5x. So stego effectively deals 4-6x as much damage to Rex than trike. Rex is going to be much easier to deal with than trike for that alone, not to mention them having completely different kits.

[viscid mica]

Na I like it having the dps to box the less defensive ones

But like trike is the one exception lol

That and anky

And shant cuz shant it just massive

[golden coral]

And spino, at least if tanky, slow spino is still a thing

[untold coyote]

I still think having a weaker tail attack while on the move would be fine

Like 500 damage or something

[viscid mica]

Depends on speed

[viscid mica]

Like a flick backwards?

What kinda stam cost we looking at?

[golden coral]

If I counted right, it'd take one head shot running swing, then follow up with one head shot standing swing, and two body shot standing swing would kill a rex. Might be doable, if rex takes enough time from being hit from a well positioned stego to get to where it can knock it down or crush it

[viscid mica]

I think my biggest concern would be the affects this would have on smaller things trying to fw stego

[golden coral]

True, but I think spino is supposed to be pretty slow

[viscid mica]

Assuming you don’t land a second headshot since power swings are rapid fire

[viscid mica]

Unknown at this time but you might be right

[untold coyote]

I was thinking basically the same costs as using the quick attack while stationary, just reducing the damage significantly, same kind of directional stuff.

[viscid mica]

10%?????

For 500 damage

[golden coral]

True, but not sure how likely that'd be, and you'd still need one more body shot at least I'm pretty sure

[untold coyote]

Better than 0% for 900?

Or 10% for 1200

[golden coral]

Why not, if it's a proper moving swing, it could be okay

[viscid mica]

Stego has no 0% beyond its 20 bite

I dunno

[untold coyote]

Right, I was referring to trike

[viscid mica]

I just don’t see a point

[golden coral]

I think it's to help fighting back while staying out of reach better

[viscid mica]

Super tight turn circle and power swing

Fafo

[hasty coyote]

Tbh you would likely have to make it like 2.5%, because it’s gonna take like 19 of those attacks to kill a Rex. Any more and it would literally be a net negative using that attack because you will burn all your stam before you even get a chance to kill.

[golden coral]

But the swing locks you in place, unless that's changed

[dusky surge]

Hell nah, stamcosts are way too high on powerswing alone

[viscid mica]

You can still move while power swinging

[hasty coyote]

No?

[golden coral]

Wait, really? Do you have any vid of that, or anything showing it?

Cause that's not at all how it was when I played stego, not even after the cooldown got removed

[untold coyote]

It's not meant to kill, it's meant to hurt something chasing you, as a bit of a deterrent from just tail riding while you reposition or whatever

[golden coral]

Basically, something to keep the target deterred while you outstam it, though that'd be harder with that cost

[untold coyote]

I was talking about the quick swing, not the power swing

[hasty coyote]

You can hold the power swing and move, but there’s a ~1 second stun where you can’t move.

[golden coral]

So maybe 5%, or some such, would be better

[viscid mica]

Yes it’s significantly reduced but if your turning while swinging you maintain abit of movement

[golden coral]

If you just keep attacking, can you somehow still move then?

[dusky surge]

The quick swing is the power swing

[untold coyote]

You'd also have to balance it for things smaller than steg tho

[golden coral]

I would love someone to show me how this looks in game, if someone has a vid

[viscid mica]

Jab is the alt left click power swing is holding right left and than well sprinting attack is sprinting attack

[untold coyote]

I meant whatever you call the alt swing, I've always heard that called quick attack. I call the RMB swing the power swing and the charge swing, the charge swing.

[viscid mica]

No not any noticeable amount anyways

[golden coral]

Well, the jab cost 5%, seems to be okay? New attack could cost 5%, jab down to 4%, then put both standing and running swing at 10%, should be okay

[golden coral]

Then I would still call it movement locked, even if you do keep some momentum somehow. But the way you said it, you had me believing for a moment that it was a proper "moving swing"

[dusky surge]

10% is still way too much imho

[hasty coyote]

It’s only useful as a deterrent if there’s actually a punishment. 500 damage is laughable as a large dino, especially if you know the stego just lost 1/10th of its stam plus sprint cost. Like stego already needs 60% of its stamina to kill Rex with power swings.

[viscid mica]

Ya fair

[viscid mica]

Well see

A lot of this convo is doomjecting

[dusky surge]

How

[untold coyote]

Methinks ziowar just hates Stegs, and is happy to see them get bodied 🤣

[viscid mica]

Well like the Rex will crush stego bit

[dusky surge]

I’m not even talking about the future I just genuinely think 10%+ stamcosts should only be used for very rare situations, in hyper specific animals

[viscid mica]

According to this channel I main stego

Actually according to this server I both main and hate everything very pog

I just don’t want any drastic changes until we actually get a chance to see how it handles itself

[golden coral]

A bit, yes. I do think we should wait and see how it goes when rex is in. Though I do enjoy talking about other iterations of stego and how it could work

[golden coral]

Nah, Zio here is reasonable enough, though there are plenty of people that do think stegos deserve to be entirely destroyed by everything else as some punishment for daring to have been "OP". Same way I'm sure some people will enjoy spino destroying deino, or how the new knockdown get up timer apparently ruins omni (or so it seems if you listen to the omni players at least)

[untold coyote]

Rex will "crush" all dinos. Because of it's ability. Called crush. Laugh at my jokes.

[viscid mica]

Gross ability

[golden coral]

Get out, you pinecone-tailed cow!

Like so! Was supposed to be for that xD

[viscid mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1301952467852071004/1367444167759888504/80a2fc958bb7da451d180b6b559af055af093e15.gif

[untold coyote]

Get thagomized

[golden coral]

That feedback is still funny. Someone complained about stego and referred to it as a cow with a pinecone for a tail :D

[untold coyote]

I mean

Are they wrong?

[golden coral]

Not entirely wrong, no

[untold coyote]

Also, because zio posted it

Where TF is Kentro gonna fit in?

Is it just gonna be a smaller, faster steg?

[golden coral]

No idea, though I hope for a teno style "fighter" but well, stego flavoured I guess

So more defensive/"stationary", but still more varied than stego in attacks and abilities

[viscid mica]

Think of it like a porcupine that’s between dilo and teno sized

[untold coyote]

So biting it hurts you?

Actually that would be funny

[golden coral]

Maybe not biting, but pouncing, like trike and diablo(?) face

[untold coyote]

Do I get to shoot spikes out like a porcupine?

[golden coral]

I don't think they actually do that xD

[viscid mica]

More like it has no weak side and will be the Bain of Herrera and omnis existence

[golden coral]

But you might get some kind of ability to move more like a dibble, if we're lucky, so you can kind of back up towards a target with the entire tail to shove in their face

[untold coyote]

Porcupines do, over short distances

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, we do have a drop bear lol

[untold coyote]

#givekentrorange

[golden coral]

Fair enough

I guess we could let kentro do that, or just leave spikes in targets, like Path of Titans does xD

[untold coyote]

XD

[viscid mica]

Why range when you have speed

[untold coyote]

Memes

Let me throw Dino spikes

Realism ™

[viscid mica]

Counter

We get “no shooty spikes”

You get “complete immunity to Herreras only useful ability”

[untold coyote]

Herras impale on spikes like small dinos do when thagomized

[hasty coyote]

Nah that’s a misconception, they just raise their spines, they will lunge backwards, the spines are barbed, and they come out easily. So all of that combined makes them have deceptively long range while still being “melee”.

[untold coyote]

Lol, give Kentro WWE style body slam

[viscid mica]

basssically yes

[untold coyote]

But back to steg, I guess it just feels clunky to have to stop whenever you wanna swing your tail, and it would make the jab a more useful option than "HAHA I CAN SPAM POWER SWING"

And I feel adjusting that would put steg in a perfect spot

[viscid mica]

Maybe

Maybe not

Who knows

[untold coyote]

I'd like to see it tested at least. I don't feel like that would make steg too oppressive to smaller things

I'd probably also suggest just letting it jab to the sides while moving

IDK, it makes sense in my head

[viscid mica]

Maybe in the future

ATM we just need the forbidden word Dino

So we can move on the the actually good stuff like Austro bary and Kentro

[steep gazelle]

I really don't see any problem with Herrera having this speed, on Earth he is weak anyway. Increasing the speed of Troodon and Dryo would help with other things too

[dusky surge]

I’d prefer to reduce the speed of Herrera than increase the speed of Troo and dryo tbh

[steep gazelle]

Increasing Troodon's speed would also help him deal with Omnis

[dusky surge]

I guess? But tbh I don’t really worry too much about omnis as a Troo, I use stealth to my advantage to just slip away

[unreal crystal]

Yes I'd be happy with herrera keeping it's current speed if troodon gets a speed buff

But ideally I think would be better if herra just gets a speed nerf and troodons speed stays as it is

If feel like Herra should be just a bit faster than pachy and that's about it

[steep gazelle]

It would be something extra that would make it easier to escape from something that can simply chase you and use an attack with a huge hitbox

[unreal crystal]

You never spend time on land as herra it really shouldn't be a big deal

[steep gazelle]

To migrate the herrera uses its speed, which is stifled by the horrible stam

[dusky surge]

Agreed

[steep gazelle]

treating Herrera as if he were a Deino that sticks to the tree, when he is completely different from Deino and is obviously much lighter and more fragile.

[crystal stream]

Why am I a little worried that herbivores are going to out class carnivores by a mile ik the Dino’s we currently have are nothing insane but 3 ton dibble is a lil scary even for larger animals obviously not Rex but the isle devs are going to make all the large carnivores broken anyway

[true ginkgo]

<@&933486433342222376>

poor guy got hacked

[fallen cave]

poor gandalf

[true ginkgo]

RIP had to cut half my suggestion off despite it initially being a copy and paste.

Turns out discord cut its character limit by tons, and then repackaged the old character limit into the supernitro boost

[thorn mountain]

@ivory abyss it was never 500

its either 350-300

at max charge I forgot

[steep gazelle]

350 standard damage and 500 with damage mutations

[thorn mountain]

then just remove damage muts

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[potent fox]

True and even then it would have crazy dps

[ivory abyss]

What damage mutations increase it thay high?

Not doesn't even make sense?

Full charge bite does 500 damage

It's busted

[potent fox]

Na it’s definitely 350. A headshot is 500. With both hemo and the more dmg for hunger mut you can get up to 20% extra

But most people take gastro anyway so it’s probably just 5% from hemo

[crimson crater]

345 to be precise

[ivory abyss]

Ah okay then just make all the other changes I said lol

Then it's perfect

[crimson crater]

it can no longer apply bile with tailshots btw

recent nerf

[hasty coyote]

You’re looking at a large herbivore and comparing it to the lack of a large carnivore, of course it’s gonna seem strong. But if you compare any herbivore to their carnivore counterpart, they are generally outclassed. Compare pachy to Omni/dilo, compare teno to cera, compare dryo/hypsi to troodon/herrera.

[ivory abyss]

Well then the other other stuff

[kind laurel]

@ivory abyss Ceratos Charge bite Damage is 300 not 500 rn lol

[ivory abyss]

I heard it somewhere. Where do I find a list of all the damage values?

[golden ember]

I know that the patchy isnt the most famous dino, but as a retired patchy player I think that it should be a bit faster, atleast faster than the cerato as it stands no chance against a fully grown one in a fight.

[ivory abyss]

Yes

It should be at least 44 base

[golden ember]

Yeah, I mean it slows down from 48 as a juvy to 41 fg

so 44 would be balanced

[ivory abyss]

Ye I love playing pachy but it's just way too slow for something that size

[golden ember]

yeah absoulutely

[ivory abyss]

Also why is herra so fast? It's running animation looks so bad

And goofy

[golden ember]

yeah I know, but I actually enjoy herrera aswell.

But if it was a bit bigger it would make sense for the speed

[ivory abyss]

Yea same but it just looks unnatural for something like herra

[golden ember]

yup

[ivory abyss]

Lol he looks so devious when running

[kind laurel]

Test it

[ivory abyss]

Where?

[golden ember]

Do you guys know if every dino will get the chance to turn elder?

[ivory abyss]

Yes every dino

[golden ember]

damn

Im stoked for this update

[ivory abyss]

I want me an elder teno

The idea of small tier elders is just so peak for me

[golden ember]

Elder deino will probably be the scariest thing about the isle when it releases

[golden ember]

yeah I know

[ivory abyss]

Like teno for example. Teno already being pretty scary and making it probably 2 tons to 2.2 tons will be awesome

[golden ember]

yeah

[ivory abyss]

How much is elder deini?

[golden ember]

Btw what is teno full grown kg?

[ivory abyss]

1.6 tons

[golden ember]

I think the elder deino will be 11 tons

[ivory abyss]

1600kg

[golden ember]

alright

[ivory abyss]

Dang it grows 3 tons? That's crazy

[golden ember]

yeah its crazy

But then imagine a bigger herrera lurking in the trees lmao

like 225kg or something

[ivory abyss]

Scary lol

Did you see elder allo tho?

It's beau

[golden ember]

no I havent actually

[ivory abyss]

Beautiful

[golden ember]

really?

[ivory abyss]

Look it up on YouTube

[golden ember]

alright on it

[ivory abyss]

Dondi did a stream of lots of elders

[golden ember]

found it

[ivory abyss]

Like trike rex carno cera dibble

And beipi

[golden ember]

This one actually looks devious with them little hands hanging hahaah

[ivory abyss]

It's awesome

Also elder dibble might be able to spar with trike

[golden ember]

Yeah but imagine elder trike than

[ivory abyss]

He shows that too but it's a big difference

[golden ember]

yeah

The dibble is to agile in my mind

it moves QUICK

[ivory abyss]

Ye I kinda agree but that's like it's whole concept I guess

[golden ember]

yeah I guess

[ivory abyss]

Or playstyle

[golden ember]

otherwise it would probably be no match for ceras and carnos

[ivory abyss]

Ye

You see the newest dev blog

[golden ember]

where can I?

Like the updates?

[ivory abyss]

On steam or in announcements channel

[golden ember]

aha like patches?

[ivory abyss]

The animations close to the bottom are awesome

[golden ember]

oh for dibble

[ivory abyss]

No it shows what they have been working on

It shows elders austro ava and bary animations

[golden ember]

ava and bary? Im not familiar with those sorry ahha

[ivory abyss]

You need to see it

Bary is like spino but different and like 1.8 to 2 tons I think

[golden ember]

oh

Isnt spino like semi aquatic?

[ivory abyss]

And ava is a small ceratopcian

[ivory abyss]

Yes so is bary

Just look at it if you can

[golden ember]

ooh nice more competition in the waters

yes I am rn

[ivory abyss]

Omg I need austro tho

And pt animations OMG IT LOOKS SO TUFF

THE SPEARING

[golden ember]

pternadon??

[ivory abyss]

yes

[golden ember]

I havent seen all this I gotta look into it

oooho damnnnnnn

[ivory abyss]

Okay it's awesome

[golden ember]

like an arrow lmaoo thats cool actually

[ivory abyss]

I hope it's an attack you can use on dinos like one shot dryos or something

And do good bleed

[golden ember]

yeah, imagine elder pt doing that

[ivory abyss]

Oh wait I forgot about the oviraptor weird attack

Like lunges and flails it's arms XD

[golden ember]

what is ovirapor 😭 Sorry I dont know these

[ivory abyss]

The blue raptor thingy

With that weird ahh beak

It's supposed to be an egg stealer

[golden ember]

This little dude 💀 😂

[ivory abyss]

Yup XD

[golden ember]

ahahahahaah what is the point of this little guy

[ivory abyss]

Eggs

[golden ember]

well.. I guess he could be the egg thief

lmao

[ivory abyss]

Ye lol but unless they make nesting actually worth it. It's gonna suck

[ivory abyss]

Btw this is a baby

[golden ember]

aha

[ivory abyss]

It shows the adult in the dev blog

[golden ember]

let me see

aha yeah, they show a video of the movements

[ivory abyss]

Ye try and find the goofy attack

[golden ember]

Wtf komodo dragon, was looking for the attack but found this

[ivory abyss]

You on the wrong dev blog my boy lmao

[golden ember]

Ive scrolled to far i think

[ivory abyss]

That is megalania tho

It can climb when young

[golden ember]

aha yeah

I scrolled down from 60 to 58

[ivory abyss]

And swim pretty fast

[golden ember]

😭

[ivory abyss]

Dang lol but there is so much cool stuff they show

[golden ember]

lmaoooooo

[ivory abyss]

Yup that's it XD

Alr well I gotta go cya tho

[golden ember]

aha ok

Have a good one

[onyx lichen]

@rich lagoon You could have posted the link in your feedback

[crimson crater]

thats not what we do here

we say bad things and just move on

[onyx lichen]

Is he doing the thriller?

[golden ember]

yes

[strong crypt]

Dibble is ridicoulsusly OP with this new patch lol

[dusky surge]

how lol

[strong crypt]

well since i can flip people so easily not even dinos in my own weight class stand a chance with the gore ability

for example im 700kg dibble i can win vs FG dilo

i belive its called "tharsh" or smth

[dusky surge]

thats not new

it could do all those things before

[strong crypt]

No with the trike the dibble gained the tharsh thingy right and the stand still knockdown

now ability that deals bonus DMG to people on the ground

[dusky surge]

the thrash thing has always been a thing

that's always been a part of dibble's kit since day one

it's not new

[strong crypt]

well then dibble just broken also i know it did get a flip attack in spar mode

its weakness is the dibble spam 1 call when born xD

[keen plover]

No shot. You run at like 16km/h at that size, can't drift, can barely turn and deal low damage.

[dusky surge]

lol

genuinely at some point you gotta look at the dilo and feel sorry for it

[strong crypt]

i mean u can 1 shot carno or cera with knockdown if first knockdown hit head

i can show u if u wanna see on EUomni server

@keen plover

[keen plover]

Show what? The diablo doing that to a carno/cera?

[strong crypt]

1 shot

[keen plover]

On them?

[strong crypt]

or 1 combo

[keen plover]

I'm not shocked btw. I expect that

[strong crypt]

Dibble is insane

also with Desync and really extended charge hitbox it is a nightmere to fight

[keen plover]

You should see what Cerato and Carno do to creatures smaller than them. You can shot shot an omni / galli with cerato!

[strong crypt]

no u cant

[keen plover]

Yes you can

[dusky surge]

you absolutely can

[strong crypt]

No you cannot

[keen plover]

Omni/Galli gets one tapped by Cerato charge bite to the head lol

[strong crypt]

dibble hits 1 attack and 3 attacks is guarranteed

yeah but you will not hit the head

[keen plover]

You can hit an omni on the body and then guarantee a follow up with puke lol

[strong crypt]

does it still insta puke?

[keen plover]

yes

A full charge bite with bacteria is puking them

[strong crypt]

also try hitting a omni with a carno charge that stuns them btw

unless omni lacks WASD keys xD you wont probably

only time cerato gets a 1shot on raptor is on ambush and even then its hard

[keen plover]

Yet the Carno brings the fight to you. While still having the potential to knock you and then outright kill you. Meanwhile you have to run into the diablo for that to happen

I think Diablo's damage is fine. It should have stam costs though imo

[strong crypt]

carno should be buffed in my opinion

i think dibbles dmg is ridicolus

[keen plover]

I can agree with that

[keen plover]

This is conditional no? You can escape most of the time?

[strong crypt]

the thing is dibble is 3 ton other animals that 1 shot carno and cerato are either 6.5 or 9.5 ton

[keen plover]

I know it has the potential to kill you in one combo but is it avoidable

[strong crypt]

most of the time yes it is indeed avoidable unless if you fight it

[keen plover]

My bad. What I meant to say was, can you escape the one shot potential if you turn your head away from it and avoid the headshot multiplier

While actively fighting it

[strong crypt]

also if u have congental Mutation(anti large reduction) u will survive on 11% HP

so im still testing a bit but if it hits you with 1 HS knockdown u are dead 100 to 0 with carno and cerato

[dusky surge]

honestly i think carno is fine as is, cera just overshadows it by being better in every way

which is more a "cera is disgustingly broken" issue

[strong crypt]

well i dont think cera is disgustingly broken see cera is on par with tenon and worse than dibble maia stego trike

carno is far below them in every way and i know its supposed to be a small game hunter but i mean.
1 carno dont apply bleed so tracking is super hard
2. also if u wanna hunt small animals why dont just play raptor and RMB is way more efficient

like if you are good with tenon 1 kick to the body= 1 head kick thats a total of 600 DMG

cera bite is 300 but easier to hit than tenon kick

however since tenon have defensive abilities tenon can just corner camp and stuff aswell

[dusky surge]

cera is not on par with teno lol

cera kicks tenos ass

also carno does apply bleed wdym

[strong crypt]

actually unless body down i would say its tenon favoured

but its really even

[dusky surge]

if body down, heavy cera favoured

if not, lightly cera favoured

[strong crypt]

i just think on avrage carnivore players are often better than herb enjoyers and then u see cera tryhard sweat killing herb chat enjoyer and everyone think cera is so OP

tho i could agree that maybe the stability buff near corpses are a bit too much

[dusky surge]

i think the average carnivore player is genuinely worse than the average herb player and will often play carnivore because its popular, and cera in particular because it's remarkably easy

teno's skill ceiling is MUCH higher than cera's

[strong crypt]

no doubt i think cera is less skillful than tenon however i think tenon iss stronger if ur good

[dusky surge]

nahh

cera is def the better choice

[strong crypt]

maybe 60- 40 in favour of tenon

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[dusky surge]

stronger punchup, punchdown and a ton of mechanics that make it just not die

[strong crypt]

xD

(hate incoming)

[elfin night]

Cera is objectively op

It’s not just people using it well to dunk on dibbles solo

[dusky surge]

its objectively one of, if not the strongest thing in the entire game rn

it has dominated the meta for months now

[strong crypt]

well if you argue who is more likely to survive i mean herbs can graze and also gets alot easier diets when small especially now that AI is off

[elfin night]

Doesn’t need to be the strongest to be the most overpowered

Since it certainly isn’t the one that is more worth your time and relatively better across the board

OVERpowered

doesn’t have to be all about power too

Cera is just the Gary Stu dinosaur now

Does everything great

[dusky surge]

like imma be real i hate the "carno weak" argument because it absolutely isn't, it just lives in the shadow of the "everything master" that is cerato

[elfin night]

Has no business being the ultimate omnisaur yet it is. Short growth time, very easy to maintain, cc, good bleed, good bite speed, stam free ability that has one of the highest damage values outside of apexes, stability bonus, bonkers bleed resistance, gastro synergy, can rot bodies at will, body buff, good swimming, water alts, quick land alts…

I can’t think of a single thing where cera is lacking

[strong crypt]

so carno isnt weak everything else is just stronger

same thing to me

[dusky surge]

no, not "everything else"

literally just cera

although cera might as well count as every other carnivore because well, it's insane

and everyone plays it all the time

[elfin night]

So true

And the worst part is when they suggest carno to be on par with cerato

What could go wrong having two overpowered, zero weakness large carnivores with short growth at once?

[strong crypt]

cera and dilo i would say for weightclass troodon is better aswell ptera AI dino and omni is only one that is bad tbf

[elfin night]

Deino is so much worse than omni

[dusky surge]

omni is not bad what

[strong crypt]

from what point are you arguing

[elfin night]

Ptera and Deino are the worse ones at the moment ngl

Overall gameplay engagement and also solo viability

Omni is a perfectly viable pick even solo

[strong crypt]

valiant is what you mean that if they are able to survive the easiest they are most overpowerd?

[elfin night]

Not at all

[dusky surge]

id argue basically every carnivore is good besides ptera and deino, who need help, and cera/dilo, who are kind of disgusting

[elfin night]

Omni is like a B tier carnivore, just sort of in the middle and that suffers a little from desync

But then ptera is the PvE playable in a game where PvE isn’t good

And deino is miserable when you don’t have another gator buddy watching your back

Well no, slightly less miserable if you are with a group

It’s still bad in terms of viability and engagement

[strong crypt]

yeah still ptera if u are good is really good vs babies had alot of funn with it

[elfin night]

To some extent, although being good vs some fresh spawns is not quite something to boast about

[strong crypt]

this would make every herbivore greater than cera almost

[elfin night]

Especially when you cannot even take advantage of some kills currently

[elfin night]

How?

[strong crypt]

because if we argue from survival standpoint tenon stego and trike all beat cera and they live more easily since they litterally cant starve

like ok u have long scent range and can find bodies but its like id change that for unlimited food whenever

i would not say nerf tenon i would not say nerf cera execpt for stability near body buff. all i would say is bring carno and omni up a notch

[elfin night]

Teno depends on who takes the lead attacking, cera vs teno is such a DS3 PvP moment, ultra passive meta

And then, yes, stego and trike beat cera, but cera is more worth your time when it takes less than half of the time to grow than stego and it allows you to oppress everyone and you ar e basically never going to be killed by anything other than cannis with your exact same build unless you fumble.

Cera has a degree of versatility and omnipresence that is not healthy for the game. It is the intended scavenger and corpse bully but it also is the best carnivore brawler, the best hunter, the best mainly terrestrial creature in the water, one of the best carnivore bleeders, one of the best endurance hunters, grows in marginally more time than a dilo or omni…

It has no business being a generalist that excels at everything

Because it’s not cera being a little good at everything and being master of nothing, it is that it can compete with basically everyone on everything

[strong crypt]

well this is only the case because carno is so weak i mean if u have 1.8 ton carno again cera unless it has a body has a resonably even ffight ahead of ity

[elfin night]

Buffing carno wouldn’t solve anything

Making it somehow an equal to cera would just make the game worse

We don’t need a second cera but this time faster and bigger

[strong crypt]

well it would make carno gameplay more funn

it would not be op like you think cerato is even tho it is not

compared to other carnivores = strong
compared to other herbivores = not so strong

often a cera beating a tenon comes down to a skill diff

or they could reinplant Tap charge as a feature

[dusky surge]

carno being more fun isnt worth everyone else having to suffer through it

cera is fun to win constantly as, not so much for everyone else

also tapcharge should stay dead lol

[strong crypt]

why would you suffer?

tenon would still be stronger if u had old carno with stamina heavy charge and 175 Biteforce you wouldnt suffer you would just have a more even matchup

[dusky surge]

okay but the game isnt just teno v carno sim

[strong crypt]

that is true

but then take a look at other mid tier herbivores

[dusky surge]

okay but like, again, its not just them

also carno isn't even meant to be hunting them

you're buffing carno to compete with a sizetier above what it was designed to go for

[strong crypt]

why is it not supposed to be able to hunt tenon atleast even when its tenon favoured?

[elfin night]

Cera vs teno matchup is just this https://youtu.be/T9O9frzhAYE?si=z_h6fsc5BjGVRHXW

just refusing to engage until one takes the lead and makes a mistake. It’s so mind numbing and easy to grasp. Whoever takes the lead first takes the first hit

Also as Mr. Rex said

something should be fun without encroaching everyone else’s fun

[strong crypt]

O_O

[elfin night]

And 1.8t carno would be that

[strong crypt]

1.8t carno would actually be unfunn for you as tenon if you were horrible at the game and put 0 hours into learning it yes then i would agree

[elfin night]

Carno got shrunk in the first place because of cera

[strong crypt]

other big ones dibble steggo trike u still have no chance

[elfin night]

1.8t carno as it is right now would make it cease existing

And at the same time many other playables would need rebalancing or reworks such as dilo

[elfin night]

Not everything is carno vs teno as we have said

You need to focus on the smaller things too

[strong crypt]

See here you are simply wrong since before its nerf only reason carno won vs cerato was because of its beginner rienndly ability

now if you take people who are better at the game the cerato can corner camp use rocks HS bite charge bite

[elfin night]

The only reason carno won against cerato was the weight advantage and allowing it to knock over ceras

[strong crypt]

well reason i mention tenon alot is because u seem to think every single playables gameplay would be ruined if carno buff but it would only be tenons getting harder actually

raptor still loses 2 dilo matchup become more fair

If use rock carno cannot charge

[dusky surge]

again, tenonto is not the only other playable in the game

[strong crypt]

read above pls

[elfin night]

I don’t think literally all of them would be significantly harmed by a larger carno

But if your only reason to buff carno is cera, then the premise is flawed because we should never be buffing things just to contend with other overpowered characters in a game

[dusky surge]

and using other larger herbivores and conviniently leaving out smaller creatures is just purposely avoiding the issues

and relying on rocks to literally not die, when rocks are very rare now, is a tall order

[elfin night]

Raptor doesn’t even have to engage with dilo, what’s the point

[strong crypt]

reason to buff carno is other midtiers are millions of miles ahead of it. is that good enough reason?

[dusky surge]

no

[strong crypt]

okay

[elfin night]

I can think of at least 5 or so playables that would be unplayable with a 2 ton carno around

[dusky surge]

because the other midtiers are always going to have an advantage over carno, because carno is not meant to hunt them

[strong crypt]

1.8 T

[dusky surge]

carno is quite literally miles ahead of everyone else in terms of speed

[elfin night]

What midtiers bruv? Everyone except for cera is performing just fine, as intended

[dusky surge]

yet that is conviniently glossed over because people idolise combat power

[elfin night]

And carno right now sort of is too

[strong crypt]

Tenon, cerato, dibble, maia

it shouldnt beat maia and dibble

tenon cerato i think should be skill matchup but is currently 1 sided

[elfin night]

Why is carno supposed to do anything at all against adult dibbles?

We know cerato needs a big nerf

Teno is the main brawler of its weight class

Maia is so much larger than carno

[elfin night]

So a 50/50?

[dusky surge]

it is one-sided, yes, although for some reason you think it's teno's advantage

[elfin night]

That’s a pretty bad idea because carno can just choose to freely disengage whenever it wants

And it can also force the engagement

[strong crypt]

you might think this but your not listnening. CARNO IS IN A HORRIBLE STATE. If carno is buffed it would still be disadvantage to tenon anc cerato, it would change it from unfightable to hard but duable fight

[dusky surge]

what about it is a horrible state

[elfin night]

How is carno in a horrible state?

It is doing what it should

And is in fact pretty damn oppressive at hunting small game

[strong crypt]

i mean i can probably kill 2 carnos alone as a cerato

[dusky surge]

okay

and i can avoid 100 ceras as carno

[strong crypt]

and also i could probably kill 2 carnos alone as tenon

i know i can definatly do it as dibble and maia

[dusky surge]

and i could avoid 100 tenos as carno

and i could avoid 100 dibbles and maias as carno

[strong crypt]

yes and avoiding every battle is the absolute worst way to play the game

enjoy the view btw u can kill babies and run

[subtle ice]

How?

[dusky surge]

having the power to freely pick your fights is literally the best trait in the game

it is why galli is just insanely good

[strong crypt]

LMAO

^^^^^^

[dusky surge]

i dont see whats so funny, galli is insane

they've nerfed it so many times and its still insane

[elfin night]

And I can infinitely escape ceras or tenos as a carno. Speed is the most valuable stat in the game

If I threw 6 carnos at a cera, it would die without even a chance of escaping unless near the water and that’s because cera is so laughably versatile at everything

But as a carno you can evade a megapack of 8 ceras in any situation

[dusky surge]

6 carnos vs a cera, cera is 100% dead

6 ceras vs carno, carno can still live

i think thats pretty important to note

[elfin night]

This PvP mindset really doesn’t work in the isle

[strong crypt]

half the game is pvp

[elfin night]

There’s matchups that you’re not meant to take head on in a fight

[dusky surge]

the other half is knowing when not to take dumb fights and die

[strong crypt]

also your overvaluing speed stat

[dusky surge]

not at all

[elfin night]

Always within your league and…yeah, what Wave said

[dusky surge]

speed stat is so good, a 5% boost at a certain time of day launched itself to the best mutation in the game

because thats all it takes

[strong crypt]

i mean u said gali is so OP but ive never died to it once ive killed it 100 times

[dusky surge]

you haven't seen galli herds that know what they're doing

i played galli and in one night, killed one of every carnivore besides deino

[strong crypt]

no cause they dont exsist lol

[dusky surge]

ceras, carnos, dilos, omnis, troodons, all dead because of galli herd

[strong crypt]

and also what ur doing is saying speed is most valuable stat because 8 carnos can kill 1 cera

which is the most unfair scenario ever picked

[dusky surge]

yea, its unfair, thank god carno has a way out

lol

[strong crypt]

okay 2 cerato can kill carno anytime even when it tries to run

u track it and then just kill it when its out of stamina

i really do think you are over valuing the speed stat

it would be like saying trike is worst playable because of its speed its so bad

[elfin night]

You can’t anymore with balance changes