balance-feedback-discussion

[viscid mica]

So long as the math is different depending on the Dino I’m fine with what ever tbh

[hidden kettle]

Ye. Also at some Point its a nice optics instead of onebite hanging in mouth 😂

[viscid mica]

I mean Rex will do enough to 1 shot stuff like dilo and below and will certainly be able to carry stuff like tenos

[hidden kettle]

I Like trains

[slim dragon]

who doesn't

[hidden kettle]

My friend next to me Just took my Phone as i got us some Beer xD

[slim dragon]

Well your friend has W opinions

[viscid mica]

Ong

[hidden kettle]

Ye Just meant this more Like " i would Love to have some finishing optics in general instead of Something Just lay flat" 😄

[hidden kettle]

He surely does 😄

[viscid mica]

Ah

[hidden kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-jurassic-world-spinosaurus-tyrannosaurus-t-rex-gif-13132687000543794337

You know some optics on the Killing Blow ':D
I know it would be B-hurt to get that working nicely and Not bothering Most situations but Overall i would really enjoy some stuff like that
Anyways thats Not Part of this discussion.

[viscid mica]

@fervent orchid would you have pinning retaliation apply for stuff duo pinned?

Would the retaliation be sufficient enough to throw off a almost full stam pin depending on weight?

And finally (I know a lot of questions sorry)
What would the math roughly look like?

@torn egret so funny enough the damage applications work on cera for now… and it’s extremely op taking a max charge bite damage from 350 to roughly 470 range meaning it’s almost matching the bite force of deino which is wildly op. So no having damage muts effect specials is very op and def not something you wanna have. (Imagine dilo clones with full damage muts that would be almost 120ish damage at peak dps build per clone that would be horrific or troodon who every t3 can do some 150+ damage yikes)

@acoustic meteor absolutely none of Rex’s abilities and or math for pinning/crush ability is 100% yet as it’s not in testing yet and simply devs trolling and getting the community hyped and on HT so they can fix lag issues and push Rex faster

@steep echo wdym? Like galli can’t do a omni and 90 instantly?

@twilit seal tbh I don’t see the slow down helping with ceras “goal” as a corpse bully. The changes they are aiming for in HT rn (slow down when charge biting) will keep it on target without nuking its ability to fight things bigger than it

@steel hatch well I get what your aiming for I don’t see a point in the devs themself doing this, the results can be inferred or you can go on yt and watch a how too like from Kouga who explains it all(or play a pvp free admin server and find out for yourself)

[steep gazelle]

@soft mantle Rex should not be cannibalistic, as that would make it extremely easy for something like Rex to grow (Which is more dangerous than Trike)

[viscid mica]

How so?

Also you’ll need to ping him again as it won’t show with a edit

[steep gazelle]

Well, the name is blue, so...

[viscid mica]

But it won’t notify them

[slim dragon]

Example 1 : rex is no cannibal
Server is full of rexes, there is no enough food to feed all of them
Rex must kill other rexes to secure their own food
Only a small amount of rexes survive

Example 2 : rex is cannibal
Server is full of rexes, but since rex is on rex's food list, there is no food shortage

Rexes can thrive off each other

[obsidian yacht]

Carno and cerato

[slim dragon]

A dino being a cannibal is straight up a buff, nothing else
It does not increase competition, it does not increase in-fighting. All it does is what it is : it gives them one extra diet option

[obsidian yacht]

Old carno i should say

[steep gazelle]

He'll probably see this channel, so there's no need

[viscid mica]

Sure in HT it will be rough and def for first month at most but it wouldn’t have that much of a effect long term

[obsidian yacht]

What bulbulblu said

[viscid mica]

Fair

[torn egret]

Specified the No dilo venom nor herrera pounce.
Ceras special is a bite, not a pounce like a raptor.
If cera has it it should apply to the raw pounce dmg, not "special damage" like venom.
Its because cera and Deino get it and benefit greatly that it needs to be opened to the 2 lil Carnis.
It only doesnt count for the mutation because its not a "bite"

[viscid mica]

I get that for HT it might be rough but don’t we want more FG Rex’s during HT than not?

[slim dragon]

If people keep playing rex, (which they will) cannibalism will keep being an issue of making them to easy to survive as

[slim dragon]

Nah
I think we want just the right amount of rex to be running around during HT
Which is a low amount

[viscid mica]

“If you do it for one do it for all”

Trust me the community will lose their minds in that arguement

[slim dragon]

We want to see how rex fares within the ecosystem, not how it fares against itself

[viscid mica]

I don’t think it’ll be all that easy tbh like Rex will prolly have the entire roaster on its preferred somewhere so will it really matter much?

I’d say atleast letting them have canni mut by default

So they can gain diet from organs still

[viscid mica]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slim dragon]

No, just don't make rex canni so it's not stupidly easy to grow

[viscid mica]

I don’t see how them being canni suddenly makes them that much easier?

[steep gazelle]

Rex will still be able to be a cannibal (probably), he will just have to get the mutation

[viscid mica]

Emmmm

[slim dragon]

Extra diet option, which is the most played thing around

[viscid mica]

I dunno Rex’s where very well known for being cannibals

[thorn mountain]

• food from birth pretty much

[slim dragon]

Realism doesn't matter

[thorn mountain]

its about game balance

[viscid mica]

Than canni with no diet option?

[slim dragon]

Almost all carnivore dinos were cannibals to an extent, only mammals happen to not be cannibalistic

[thorn mountain]

and apexes needing to be difficult

[viscid mica]

I just feel like having no canni could cause for serious over pop issues

[thorn mountain]

heres the thing

[viscid mica]

Rex’s will just not fight eachother

[thorn mountain]

then they starve

[viscid mica]

Why risk dying if you don’t have too?

[viscid mica]

They can’t eat eachother any way what’s the point?

[thorn mountain]

if they choose to kill another rex for food it will cause them to get debuffs

[viscid mica]

Why not just group up and nuke trike players?

[viscid mica]

Exactly

[slim dragon]

Because at some point there aren't any trike players left to get food off

[thorn mountain]

cause thats alot of mouths to feed.

[slim dragon]

So they starve

[dusky surge]

this mindset doesn't work imho, because we should be seeing how Rex will work in live branch, not getting as many adults as possible

they can't balance around a rex that doesn't work as it should

[thorn mountain]

people complain about getting groups of 5 rexes that wont happen if its not a canni

[slim dragon]

Cannibalism means a server full of only one species is sustainable
Which is precisely what we want to avoid with rex

[viscid mica]

And than people will spend all day crying about Rex being unplayable as you starve 24/7

I’m not saying it needs diet

[thorn mountain]

GOOD

[viscid mica]

Just the ability to eat

[thorn mountain]

it needs to be a hard creature

[slim dragon]

Also cannibal rex can group up and kill trikes just as much, if not better, than non-cannibal rex
Because if they lose a member of their megapack they can eat it and still call it a succesful hunt

[thorn mountain]

not for the simple isle player

[dusky surge]

they should

it's meant to be the most difficult animal to grow in the game

[slim dragon]

Good, let them

[viscid mica]

Like I see the problem of this early on but as more of the roaster fills in it won’t be that much

A lot of people won’t even be willing to grind out Rex 12 hour grow

[torn egret]

Cannibal is a toxic mut change my mind

[viscid mica]

And everyone knows players are finna hard target Rex’s

Especially if they aren’t FG

[dusky surge]

i dont see whats wrong with that lol

[thorn mountain]

eh

[torn egret]

Every new playable is targeted lmao

[viscid mica]

No no that’s a good thing

[thorn mountain]

we get a skin change so

[viscid mica]

My point being Rex being canni won’t matter long term

[dusky surge]

it absolutely would

[viscid mica]

THAT TOO

Forced skin change is mad cringe

Especially if it’s a mut that is practically forced to get just to survive

[slim dragon]

Ok but if everyone is playing rex it won't matter

[viscid mica]

But that’s short term

[slim dragon]

If rex is easy to grow due to being a cannibal, what will make people stop playing it ?

[viscid mica]

Like I feel like the whole idea of why canni is (so bad) is a lot of short term effects of any new playable

[slim dragon]

Deino is not new anymore, yet it's still being hard-carried by cannibalism

[viscid mica]

12 hour grow becomes significantly harder the bigger you get for starters

Again to clarify I’m not saying any diet

No diet from basic meat

Meaning you won’t get a “easier grow”

Just that you won’t suffer from spasms or a forced skin change

[slim dragon]

What's the point of making it a cannibal in the first place ?
Why do you want to ease its existence while it's not even out yet ?

[slim dragon]

So an easier grow

[viscid mica]

Reason to kill eachother

[slim dragon]

They will have MORE of a reason to kill each other if they're not cannibals, didn't you read the previous messages ?

Cannibalism caters to megapacks

[viscid mica]

Megapackers will just get the mut anyway so why does that matter?

[thorn mountain]

if isnt a cannibal it will make you kill out of necessity of keeping your area as your hunting ground as an area would not be able to share 2 groups of rexes

[slim dragon]

Because they need to cannibalize without having the mut first, and they need to use a mutation slot, and they become extremely noticeable
All things you want to give them for free

[viscid mica]

Plus ong megapackers are not patient enough to FG Rex’s and even if they do they are trash anyways

[slim dragon]

They are patient enough to do it with deino

[viscid mica]

You severely overestimate the majority of isle players let alone Rex mains they is not finna do all dat way too much effort

[thorn mountain]

then they die

[slim dragon]

Then they'll die, and we'll avoid having a rex overpopulation
Problem solved

[viscid mica]

Not on the servers I’ve played the few times I’ve seen em it’s a base duo with like 1 cera or teno something minor and they are hard locked plus deino is half the grow time of Rex

[viscid mica]

Why would they die

Just gank everything else

[thorn mountain]

cause lack of food

[viscid mica]

Or log until later I don’t see many Rex mains caring

[slim dragon]

If they can't go through the effort of playing properly to grow a rex, then they die, easy

Unless rex is a cannibal, in which case they can just eat other trash rexes and thrive that way

[viscid mica]

So you must fight something that serves 0 purpose to fighting and 0 real benefit beyond “turf control”

Ya na that’s goofy

[slim dragon]

Exactly

[thorn mountain]

from the leaked stats thingy I think it showed rex not even being on diet

[thorn mountain]

yes.

[slim dragon]

Why ? That's what herbivores do with the limited food in migration zones

[viscid mica]

lol they really don’t they graze

The ones killing other herbis are the type to KOS anything for any reason anyways

[slim dragon]

No herbi player wants to survive off grazing
They kill each other out of necessity

[viscid mica]

I just don’t see how Rex’s being able to at least eat each-other being a bad thing

[viscid mica]

Never seen it ever

Every herbi main I know lets bygones be bygones and leaves eachother alone or is a KOS demon no matter what it is

Like I really don’t see the point mannnn

[slim dragon]

The point is to make it hard to survive as

Because it's an apex, and we don't want the server to be half apexes like it used to be with deinos and spiro, because deino was too easy to grow

[viscid mica]

Ya but I see while it might stifle the growth period it will cause for those that succeed to be a lot more and a lot less interested in fighting one another

[viscid mica]

Of course

[slim dragon]

If you think it's useless to kill other rexes over food, fine. You'll just starve to death or get killed.

[slim dragon]

They will have to

[viscid mica]

Just log come back abit later new players will be on as other things

I don’t think they will

[slim dragon]

And it's perfect that way
They don't want to fight but they have to because there isn't enough food for the both of them
True survival dynamics

[slim dragon]

Or more rexes

[viscid mica]

I don’t see more than 4 maybe 6 FG Rex’s being able to sustain themselves with or without canni

If the food drain is well done right

[slim dragon]

With canni 100 rexes could sustain themselves just by eating other rexes

Because whenever a rex dies another one gets fed

Wait so it'd be 50
Which is still way too high

[viscid mica]

Rex grow is far to long and difficult for that to be possible

[slim dragon]

Growth length doesn't change anything

[viscid mica]

It changes a lot actually

[slim dragon]

Can't make it to full grown ? You die and another rex eats you so it can get full grown

Unless you assume rex will starve in like 20 minutes

[viscid mica]

Abit more but certainly within that range hopefully

[slim dragon]

No that'd be stupid

Giving crazy food drain to carnivores isn't a good way to balance them

It makes them more annoying to play more than anything else

[viscid mica]

40-50 mins too low!? Most playables other than deino are lower than that

And Rex can practically 1 tap half the roaster

[slim dragon]

40-50 mins is not "within the range" of 20 minutes

It's a regular hunger drain

[viscid mica]

Meh compared to deino it’s slow but I get it

[slim dragon]

That's because deino has the longest hunger drain in the entire game

[viscid mica]

Of course

Anyways we’ll have to wait and see how it all plays

Maybe it will be canni and yall are right maybe it won’t

We won’t know for a month or so either way as we’ll have to wait for another playable to drop before we start to see how well it rolls out

The PvP noobs and meta players will be all over Rex and trike for a good bit that’s for sure

[fervent orchid]

It would probably be weight based.
Not sure how to do math for it, id imagine so long as it was within like... example 1k dino could fight off a 1.5k dino in a pin. Up to 50% of your weight limit you could fight off.
Dinos big enough can already buck off latched dinos, there should be something similar for being pinned. Within reason of course

Not the best at math or explaining. But % weight based like carrying

[slim dragon]

@analog mirage I think both nerfs at once is too much

Lowering pin threshold+limiting it severely to the amount of remaining stamina would make it pretty much useless at that point
While yes, current pin is OP, that's too much

[analog mirage]

Great, it shouldnt be used as an execution

You get to pin for a few seconds

Get some good damage, then it’s all up to you

If you are like a dryo, yeah you still just die on the spot

Something like an Austro or Mono, or most juvies? You can pin them briefly but it’s not gonna carry you

I dont like how there’s essentially one big gap of “viable vs useless” because raptor pin

[slim dragon]

But you can't use pin at all past a certain stamina threshold

Omni is overreliant on its pounce, not being able to use it at all on similar-sized targets once you're under 65% stam would make it awkward and clunky

[analog mirage]

No

You can still latch

You just can’t rely on your pin to give you kills

[slim dragon]

Latch ? On a smaller target ?

[analog mirage]

I’d give it something similar to Allo where it’s grounded instead of on the side

You can still grapple onto something

[slim dragon]

It would look goofy as hell

[analog mirage]

Also this only really applies to anything inbetween half its weight and its own weight (so anything 225kg-450kg)

[slim dragon]

I think pin is better staying as an execute, albeit harder to pull off, rather than "chip damage"

[analog mirage]

If you are below 50% of its weight yeah you just get killed

Execute babies

Not things your size

It’s only gonna be worse with Allo

[slim dragon]

Nothing about pin spells "chip damage"
It's literally the opposite

[analog mirage]

It should be a brief damage tool

If you pin something you inherently have the advantage

You just can’t fully rely on it for something like let’s say an austro

If all we add is the front, side, back part

Then one mistake still leads to death

[slim dragon]

Hard disagree

Pin is something that should be used to finish off a weakened opponent, not initiate combat with then stop using

That wouldn't make sense

[analog mirage]

Because as soon as you get the pin it’s an execution

[slim dragon]

Just make pin harder to perform so it's nont instant gg and actually REQUIRES weakening the opponent

[analog mirage]

If it requires lowering their health, stamina or blood first that would be fine

[slim dragon]

Using pin as a "brief damage" is so anthitetical to its concept

[slim dragon]

Something like that
It could be made in a way that if you try to pin a full health/full stam opponent you'll exhaust yourself without being able to kill them

But if they're weakened it's an easy kill

Maybe pin damage8stamina drain on raptor is dependent on the target's remaining stamina

Because logically if they have a lot of stamina left they'll fight back more fiercely

[analog mirage]

That would make more sense then yeah

I just don’t like the big gap of “I can now pin you off the bat”

So you are now useless

Which is what we wanna try to fix

[slim dragon]

Yeah current pin is really a huge issue

It's like deino lunge full black and white, it's either a oneshot or useless

Though pin has the added benefit of being part of pounce so you can still latch on larger targets

[viscid mica]

Hmmm I dunno I feel like out right being able to deny something ability is kinda cringe like sure galli or Austro should have a escape but they should still take serious damage where any anything 300 and below has no reason to a get caught and B escape the pin

Galli has no reason to get caught either but I digress

Tbh I’m a firm believer that omni pin math isn’t a problem and it’s more a player mindset issue

Sure some sort of way to escape for the almost same size I’m down to discuss but I don’t feel like tiny stuff that was no real reason to get caught if they play the playable at all properly for how it’s intended

[fervent orchid]

It just feels awful not being able to do anything. I've played games where players control was taken away and it sucks

[ivory abyss]

I have a question what is a teno going to do if it is being hunted by an allo?

[steep gazelle]

Nothing

Get caught in a Pin and wait for death

[ivory abyss]

Doesn't seem fair

[steep gazelle]

It's not fair

[ivory abyss]

I have a fix

[steep gazelle]

That's why Pin needs rework

[ivory abyss]

Teno should be like a mountain goat able to climb steeper slopes

Boom

[steep gazelle]

This seems cool, but it must be a lot of work to do. The best thing to do is to improve how the Pin mechanic work

When Rex launches, there should be a barrage of complaints about how bad Pin is

Big hitbox, bugged and can pin even with a light touch on the tip of the tail...

[viscid mica]

Walk away or kick abunch teno ain’t that much smaller and certainly could hold its own plus it’s gonna be faster

[viscid mica]

If allo has omni pin math at its size that’s a serious problem

[ivory abyss]

Allo is twice it's weight

[viscid mica]

No less than that

1.6-2.5

[ivory abyss]

Teno is 1.6

[viscid mica]

900kg difference

[ivory abyss]

Allo is 2.5 to 3 tons

[viscid mica]

2.5 on dondi stream

[ivory abyss]

Allo is just going pin it

[viscid mica]

So we’ll work with 2.5

[ivory abyss]

And tenobis dead

[viscid mica]

Like I said if allo has omni pin math that’s a serious problem

[ivory abyss]

Ye

[viscid mica]

Ignoring that thou allo will be slower

[ivory abyss]

Not with ambush

[viscid mica]

Teno can just leave before it even gets pinned

[ivory abyss]

Ambush probably doesn't take that long to charge

[viscid mica]

We don’t know if allo is 100% getting ambush plus teno will still be able to start making distance or simply pull a omni and juke it

[ivory abyss]

Yes we do

[viscid mica]

They just need to have different math for the grapple than omni and it’s fine

[steep gazelle]

Rex (Of all stages) and allo will probably have it, but I hope the devs rethink this soon when they are released in hordtest.

[ivory abyss]

Why is dondi stream was allo 49.5 kmh

49.5 is allos ambush speed

[viscid mica]

That would be a huge balancing jumble

[viscid mica]

For what 3 seconds?

[ivory abyss]

Bro 3 seconds is not how long ambush speed is going to last I'd say at least 10 seconds for it to be remotely useful

[viscid mica]

Well that won’t survive horde test

[ivory abyss]

?

[viscid mica]

People will be all over how unbalanced that is

Same with it having omni pin math

Thus it won’t survive HT

They’ll get changed before official release

[ivory abyss]

They need to rebalance pinning

Plus allo pin probably ain't going to be 1 to 1 as omni pin

[viscid mica]

Omni is fine

It’s once we step up weight classes that it becomes a problem

[viscid mica]

That’s the hope

[ivory abyss]

Ye omni pin is alr rn but kinda just instant death if pinned lol

[steep gazelle]

balance is almost being left aside currently in the hordtest xd

[viscid mica]

Uhhhh no? They did a ton of major reworking during trike and have currently been focusing performance once Rex drops they’ll have to return to balancing

[steep gazelle]

I said this is "almost", Cerato an example

[viscid mica]

Ngl they’ve made some huge balancing adjustments in HT

[viscid mica]

Oh god cera change did not cook fr the speed reduction in concept is good but it not being instant made it redundant

[steep gazelle]

yes haha ​​they gave him 3 free buffs and no countermeasures

[viscid mica]

Real it all comes down to the speed honestly if it was slowed down the rest would be mostly fine

[steep echo]

I mean when you turn 45 degrees via keyboard (i.e. W, to W+D) the galli tries to make that turn instantly, which is sharper than its turning circle. The other creatures I listed have your keyboard presses turn you slowly so you don't break its turning circle

I'm not sure why I'm struggling to describe it, but I'd suggest you have a run around yourself with each creature. Look straight ahead while running, and make a single 45 turn, you'll feel the speed drop as galli only

[viscid mica]

Na I get what u mean now

[dusky surge]

because allo literally just stole carno's stats and isn't done

datamined stats for allo literally just give it carno's stats

[viscid mica]

That’s so real

I won’t lie 49 for more than like 2 seconds would be wild

[keen plover]

it couldn't be that simple could it????

[elfin night]

slopsaurus

carno stats, omni pin and a popular name

ready to be the ultimate soy bait dinosaur

[viscid mica]

@quick pendant have you played horse test carno yet?

[quick pendant]

nah

[viscid mica]

They buffed it abunch and adjusted its grow time go check it out

[quick pendant]

i heard they got slightly better bleed resist, cera growth time (thank god) and can charge a teno now. is that it?

[viscid mica]

Stam, grow time, minor turn, significantly better bleed res, distance over time build for charge is working better so ya teno potentially maybe but still not easily

It’s enough that if your any good at carno it makes a huge difference

To be fair you could charge tenos before you just had to hit tail or head

[quick pendant]

oh, maybe i'll check it when it comes to official, tbh not a fan of hrdetests. i like to try some things but the hordetest does not sound that fun to me. its nice to see better changes (mostly because of the ungodly lag, or dead servers)

[viscid mica]

The more people that play horde test the faster bugs get fixed and pushed to official

The lag is mostly fixed just play a server in your region

But I will concede HT early on especially on big graphical updates like this one is laggy fr

[quick pendant]

yeah, idk i just like the game to be stable, i hate any sort of lag in the isle cuz it makes such a big differnce, i might get on when rex drops so i can play sum else like cera or sum, and see how that will go

[viscid mica]

Fair fair

I’m growing a stego when Rex drops unfortunately

[quick pendant]

oh good point, i kinda forgot about that, i think i just said that i wanted to fight rex as steg like 10 mins ago lol. def would try that first

[viscid mica]

The hardest part will be surviving the grow and not getting ganked by Aton of Rex’s at once

All I need is to make it to FG and see FG v FG once or twice and I’ll be happy

Just to make sure stego can sustain itself

[quick pendant]

yeah, i think rex 1v1 steg is gonna murder a steg if it can pin it, if not or the rex makes a wrong move, i think steg only has to like 4 shot headshot a rex with power swing, so it can go both ways but i assume rex wins most of the time, and stegos will need to group up

[viscid mica]

If Rex can pin stego we got serious problems

Stego ain’t gonna be fast enough to flee too big to hide so it gotta have the hands to fight

[quick pendant]

yeah lol, i mean stego is only like 6 tons and i think rex is believes roughly 10-11? but i can def see it pinning a stego 1 to 1

[viscid mica]

9.3

That would be so cooked if Rex can pin stego

Ngl it’d be cooked if Rex can pin anything over 5 tons

4.5 MAX

Preferably below 4

[quick pendant]

ah ok, maybe im not sure. based on the devs playing rex on ht i saw it headbut a roughly 60% grown trike and made it fly in the air higher than the rex was tall

[viscid mica]

K so like don’t use that as a reference

Cuz all the stats are gonna be in balanced

[quick pendant]

lol

[viscid mica]

And devs will crank damage just to mess with people

[dusky surge]

it was explicitly said that was not meant to happen

very much an issue of WIP that's gonna get patched out

[quick pendant]

oh, i never saw anything regarding that, mb

[dusky surge]

nah all good, not everyone sees every message lol

[viscid mica]

General rule of thumb if the devs are doing it, it’s likely not to par and dev activity is afoot

[quick pendant]

doesnt surprise me tbh

[viscid mica]

They do a lil trolling

[quick pendant]

well i mean if u wanted a second steg on rex release, just dm me. i might not answer on time since my sleep schedule can be bad at times. but i'd be so down to steg vs rex

[viscid mica]

I mean a fresh spawn Rex out ran a galli and 1 tapped it

I’d have issue if that was actually something it could do

[viscid mica]

Might be worth grouping for the grow than running the 1s with Rex’s to test it

[quick pendant]

yeah lol, i usually say i doubt the stats are final with the messeges i say about rex, i just forgot that time

[viscid mica]

Is all ok

[quick pendant]

i also wonder if rex is gonna have a group pin like omni, or if its just a solo thing like troodon i believe

[thorn mountain]

it will def be solo pin lol

the animation is not built for group pinning

||also that would be OP as hell||

[quick pendant]

honestly, omnis group pin isnt a great anim either, i see omnis pinning and they arent even close to the dino or "hitting" it

[thorn mountain]

thats a issue with desync not the animation

[quick pendant]

also with the rex pin anim, i doubt a single rex could pn another rex i will say. maybe they just made it just incase they add some sort of mechanic to pin a rex and just teased it as a sum to shake people but idk

[thorn mountain]

pinning other rexes shouldnt be a thing. Thats what sparring is for and the other things rex has in its kit

[quick pendant]

im just saying, its a 50/50 whether it means something can pin a rex (presumably 2 rexes) or that they just have an animation for the adult varient just incase and so they dont have to back track and add a rex pin anim when making a dino that could pin a rex

[viscid mica]

Pinning as a whole becomes a problem when you pass the 700kg threshold especially if you use omni as a start point for the math

The only reason omni is fine with the math it has and its design is cuz of how small it is

[mint star]

there will be things that can pin an adult Rex

shantungosaurus comes to mind and so does hyperendocrine rex

[viscid mica]

Bouta roll 10 omnis deep and takes bros stam at the knees

[mint star]

I imagine spino might be able to as well, depending on what abilities they give it

[viscid mica]

I mean if it’s not FG

Also why would shant have a pin XD

[mint star]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1301952726753738774/1302657817781604434/Shantungosaurus.png?ex=684f9161&is=684e3fe1&hm=444716a46798ce5291c5c094a9d37f7d4570c9dc27b30c6b17b21bc68941ddf2&

probably less than a pin and more of just a stun of some kind

[viscid mica]

That is a body slam

And a allo

I do see shant having some serious CC potential thou

Lots of stuns backed by a stomp to end all stomps

[mint star]

generic theropod strikes again

because that’s not an allo lmao

[viscid mica]

I NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT IS AHHHHH

[mint star]

it’s a giga

[viscid mica]

No shot?

[mint star]

shown here too

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1301952642116882432/1302654155676192768/Parasaurolophus.png?ex=685036b8&is=684ee538&hm=43aec047101656d009dc95940bd9fae356f269c02bf6e1c20684b0c85e66ae86&

bottom right

[viscid mica]

Dam giga got nerd emojid fr

[viscid mica]

It looks so small from a distance

[quick pendant]

what part are we talking about? the lower right?

[obsidian yacht]

its an alberto

[obsidian yacht]

its an alberto in the shant concept art

[viscid mica]

Na wrong head crests

[obsidian yacht]

no... its very much an alberto

[viscid mica]

We are talking about top left

[obsidian yacht]

oh top left

[viscid mica]

Your looking at the wrong one silly

[obsidian yacht]

i thought sense y'all were talking about a pin you were thinking the bottom right

mb mb

[viscid mica]

That’s a stomp

We talking about top rights body slam

Cuz we couldn’t figure out what it was

[obsidian yacht]

i got it i got it

yeah its giga

[viscid mica]

We’ve acknowledged giga as the likely victim

[obsidian yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/waynesworld-waynes-world-waynes-world-movie-waynesworldmovie-wow-gif-15432656242920888840

[viscid mica]

[obsidian yacht]

jk

[viscid mica]

[obsidian yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[crimson crater]

@steel hatch herreras speed should be nerfed instead

[steep gazelle]

Herrera's speed is good, a 1km increase for Troodon would be ideal. Not to mention that even with the same speed, Troodon can kill Herreras without any problems

[crimson crater]

a small reduction wouldn’t hurt its core playstyle

[steep gazelle]

reducing it to 44.5 would be good. But I feel that Troodon really needs to run at 46km, just like the Omnis

[crimson crater]

we can go lower, think 43 would be good

[steep gazelle]

43km is too slow, he still only weighs 175kg

[crimson crater]

43 is a mere 2kph less than its current speed

[steep gazelle]

2km is a lot. If the problem is that it has the same speed as the troodon, reduce it by 0.5

[crimson crater]

not the only problem, it should be more vulnerable on the ground, it has an easy escape route, it dosen’t need high speed with that

[steep gazelle]

but he is vulnerable on the ground, his speed does not change the fact that his stam is horrible and he has little health. You should not fear a Herrera on the ground unless you is a juv

[crimson crater]

nobody fears the herrera, the herrera should fear the ground more

[steep gazelle]

but any herrera is already afraid of the ground unless he is absolutely sure that he can deal with whatever is there lol

[crimson crater]

well more like in a flight situation not a fight

herrera is a solid and arguably one of the most balanced playables we have, it just has one glaring issue

[steep gazelle]

This already happens. A herrera considers whether he can run away if he makes a mistake or he will die. Herrera does not have a huge life to compensate for his wrong jumps like Deino, that's why he has this speed. Without this speed, Herrera would be die in literally any slightest flaw or bug in the game.

[crimson crater]

you can still dodge hits yk

[strong skiff]

#balance-feedback message wdym ❌

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback message that stego was NOT yellow hp, look at the skin, it had 0 scars

[strong skiff]

we hit him in the head 2 times and body few times before this fight

and we fought 5 min later on thinking okay we can kill him

[steep gazelle]

You are pointing out a non-existent problem that does not affect any other playable besides Juv and some that are currently poorly balanced.

[cosmic pelican]

doodoo image quality, but still 0 scars visible

[strong skiff]

and he tanks all these hits bcs mutations and his damage are a problčem

[cosmic pelican]

that stego was full hp, or at the very least 90%

[strong skiff]

okay count the hits we did to him

if he was 90% hp

how is he not dead bcs of his 40% damage reduction xd

[cosmic pelican]

stego doesnt have 40% dmg reduction what

[strong skiff]

but croc that has mouth like a truck his head is just made out of metal

15% congential and 25% tactical endurance

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/fortnite-gif-4169442390448293969

[cosmic pelican]

Tactile gives stam, not dmg resist

[golden coral]

Well, let's count. That'd be 5000 health or so. 15% less of your damage, not sure how that works, but that would of course help the stego. Tactcile has nothing to do with damage like that, it just gives stam back from being hit.

[strong skiff]

okay but he said in chat hes yellow how is he yellow

[cosmic pelican]

he was lying

look at the picture, the stego had 0 scars, if he was yellow he wouldve looked pretty beaten up

[golden coral]

That or shenanigans caused some hits to not count as hits perhaps

Or it got healed, it seems like an unofficial server, no telling what might happen

[strong skiff]

okay any how stego is too broken

in the video he 3 shot a rex

[cosmic pelican]

that rex was 70% grown

[strong skiff]

the first one not where all ganged up on him

[crimson crater]

was more than 3 hits too lol

[cosmic pelican]

that one was incredibly damaged already

[strong skiff]

idk why is stegos damage like 2500 dmg anyways

[cosmic pelican]

it isnt

[strong skiff]

the powerswing

[cosmic pelican]

still isnt

[crimson crater]

2.2 for running iirc

[strong skiff]

and he can shoot it like ak 47

[golden coral]

2200 or so, last I heard, for the running one. 1800 or so for the standing, I think. No idea, but it's around, from what I know.

[strong skiff]

if you wanna make him at least a little more balanced make him lose a bit stamina when holding his tail up like when ceras are charging

[cosmic pelican]

That rex took 2-3 damage pounced from omnis, like 6 maia/teno kicks, some sub trike attacks, ptera pecks etc and it still took a stego and a trike 3 hits to kill it

[strong skiff]

hes just swinging his tail standing there for 20 minutes waiting for u to attack

[golden coral]

Problem with that is, now you can just bait/wait out the stam

[strong skiff]

problem is 2 crocs cant kill a stego

[golden coral]

That's not a problem though

[strong skiff]

at least back in spiro you could stun him with right click

[golden coral]

Right, and that wasn't neccesarily good

[crimson crater]

you can effectively one shot a stego in the water

[obsidian yacht]

Deino doesn't need to be able to kill stego on land bro 😭

[cosmic pelican]

if stego ever decides to swim, deino 1 shots it, but if it isnt swimming, stego mops deino. Seems pretty fair to me

Both win the fight when theyre in their own element

[strong skiff]

I agree what about 2?

[cosmic pelican]

and they both lose in situation where they shouldnt be in

[obsidian yacht]

Same answer

[strong skiff]

hes getting hit in his little head with big mouth why cant i just rip it off if we wanna get realistic

real life deinosuchus 100000N

[cosmic pelican]

if we get realistic, stego 1 shots you too

[obsidian yacht]

Why is an 8 yon crocodilian hunting on land

[obsidian yacht]

Becaise its a GAME

[strong skiff]

it shouldnt

[cosmic pelican]

deino isnt surviving 2, 1 meter long spikes that just impaled its head

[strong skiff]

ik its a game but dondi saying realistic ah dont find stego yadda yadda

[obsidian yacht]

^

[golden coral]

You really don't want the game to be that realistic, it'd be terrible for most playables

[crimson crater]

that was never the premise of the game

[obsidian yacht]

Realistic as realistic can be whilst still being balanced

But really, realism is out the window with things like strains

[golden coral]

Rex being even more op than it probably will be already, most playables not working like they do at all, and so on

No more fun herrera

[strong skiff]

okay 2 crocs should be able to kill it one right clicks him holds onto him and he cant swing as hard or fast and other one biting its easy to make it balanced

[cosmic pelican]

I feel like youll be delighted to know that one of rexes main attacks will leave stego with just a measily 400hp if done to the head.

[strong skiff]

imagine irl croc holds your head and you swing aimlessly

and the other one biting u

[cosmic pelican]

Good thing stegos thagomiser isnt at its head 😄

[strong skiff]

okay so rex does that amount of damage and deino doesnt why is that deino should have more bite force

[cosmic pelican]

Deino one taps 90% of teh roster near/in water

[obsidian yacht]

This. Isn't. Real. Life.

[cosmic pelican]

thats why, it needs weaknesses

[golden coral]

Because deino has the lunge

[strong skiff]

lunge that stuns him and does no damage to stego

[golden coral]

There's your massive bite force, you're meant to use it, not kill things via normal bites

[strong skiff]

make it so i can hold onto him or smth sl,ow him down

[golden coral]

Correct, because it's out of your weight class, unless its swimming

[obsidian yacht]

Gamr balance like we've said!!!

[golden coral]

Same thing will happen to trike and rex, except you can't grab them while swimming at all

[cosmic pelican]

if deino had a gadillion bite force, one top of a one shot ability it would be left with literally 0 bad matchups lmao

[golden coral]

Since they're quite a bit larger than stego

[obsidian yacht]

Mhm

[strong skiff]

elder deino can grab a fg trike or rex while swimming

[golden coral]

Sounds promising, it'll be interesting to see how well that works out xD

[cosmic pelican]

not even mentioning that buffing deinos bite force would just make the mirror matchup even more brain damaging than it already is

[golden coral]

Yes, but not an elder rex or elder trike I'm pretty sure

[obsidian yacht]

Why are we all of a sudden talking about elders?

[crimson crater]

deino mirror matches being 10x worse than they currently are lmao

[strong skiff]

I feel like rex shoudlnt have more biteforce than deinosuchus

[golden coral]

Cause I pointed out that you won't be able to grab rex or trike swimming, unlike stego

[cosmic pelican]

Imagine a world where deino got its bite force buffed to 100,000N as per the suggestion were talking about, congrats, now you just one shot each other with a click of a button

[slim dragon]

It absolutely should, rex is designed to be fighting things its own size, as opposed to deino

[strong skiff]

no need for 100000 but more than rex for sure like 1000

[slim dragon]

Deino absolutely does not need that

[golden coral]

But why?

There's nothing you need to hunt where you'd need that damage

[obsidian yacht]

Literally so unnecessary

[golden coral]

Also that'd make spino have to be very powerful if you power up deino like that

[obsidian yacht]

Mhm

[cosmic pelican]

an animal with virtually 0 weaknesses and absolute immortality to anything that isnt another deino 🔥

[golden coral]

Since spino is meant to ... well, handle deino like rex handles stego it would seem

[strong skiff]

yeah but the animal with most biteforce its mouth are designed to have such power

search up a bit most in the history

[slim dragon]

3000 BF spino let's go

[golden coral]

And you have that in the lunge, again, you can grab up to 4T from land, 6T in water

[obsidian yacht]

ITS A FRIGGIN GAME MAN

[strong skiff]

spino shouldnt have that biteforce since it hunts fish and its skinny

[golden coral]

And if you grab them, then they drown, unless you mess up or let them go

[slim dragon]

Ah yes
Deino had 3x rex's biteforce

Sorry to tell you that, but that estimate is wrong

[obsidian yacht]

Thats literally his point

[golden coral]

Our spino is JP spino, it's very powerful

[strong skiff]

okay guys so he doesnt need more damage okay then give him some mechanics on land

[golden coral]

Because a, what do we think it might weight, 10+T if it keeps the old "tank" style, + that damage. Well, at least we'd replay the JP3 scene xD

[strong skiff]

like if i lunge at stego slow him down

at least that

[golden coral]

Why are you fighting on land?

[strong skiff]

because i had to

[golden coral]

Do you think it's going to go well when you meet a rex?

[strong skiff]

you think deino shouldnt be able to lunge at him and stun him slow him or dmg him

[slim dragon]

You didn't

[obsidian yacht]

Literally why? its a semi aquatic

[strong skiff]

no but I shouldnt be too helpless im also big and also have big mouth ik rex is designed for land

[golden coral]

Correct, because it already can lunge and drown most things in the roster, and can lunge and drown stego when swimming. That's plenty of power and hunting/killing ability

[golden coral]

Well, I'm pretty sure the rex will just kill you, faster and easier than stego at that

Oh, and it's taller, you're not hitting it's head unlike what you can do with stego

[strong skiff]

rex should be able to kill him but stego weights less he should be stunned by my lunge

[cosmic pelican]

Rex might just pin deino on land tbh lmao

[golden coral]

So... yeah, it's not going to go well I don't think, it's probably even worse than running into a stego

[golden coral]

You're not lunging on land, and even if you did add stun from the water, it's not really going to help

[obsidian yacht]

Just stop arguing man, you're going in circles

[golden coral]

Stego takes the stun, then runs away, and if you follow, it kills you

Like you could do on spiro

I would literally mess with 3-4 adults on land, and unless I let them box me in, I could just keep retreating

(Why there were actual clans of deinos with that many adults, all either white or black... well, never let it be said being a deino was hard back then)

[strong skiff]

stego takes the stun and its slown down and i'm holding onto him (let's say that's a mechanic) and other croc hitting him in the head while the other one holds his leg

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't a pack hunter

[golden coral]

But that would require a new mechanic to hold on, and back when tug of war was mentioned, it was said stego would be pulling the deino

[strong skiff]

yeah so i'm just taking defeat when he runs up on me like in the vid

and his head is thanos and hes not dead from 10 bites okay guys makes sense

[slim dragon]

Deino has an unbeatable defense mechanism that grants you a 100% success rate

It's called water

[golden coral]

If you actually hit the head 6 times, the stego would be dead

Or well, one more bite if it had the mutation, but still

[crystal stream]

So what about spino not that I agree with Sara but how would yall balance spino

[golden coral]

No idea, it depends entirely on what they want it to do, beside making deino run scared

[crystal stream]

Well my whole problem with spino is that everyone is so stuck up about fairness but spino is going to be the definition of unfair being able to completely rule over a aquatic ecosystem system while also being a apex on land I think there going to make it slow it’s just never going to die unless from other apexes ig

[obsidian yacht]

Does this make sense?

[slim dragon]

Make it a slow swimmer and a slow runner

[crystal stream]

Yeah

[crystal stream]

Ofc it’s my grandpa

[obsidian yacht]

does he spoil you?

[crystal stream]

No he eats me

[obsidian yacht]

thats freaky you might want to call CPS

[hasty coyote]

My hope is that spino mostly hippo walks along the bottom (pretty much just as fast if not faster than on land). It’s still able to swim, just very slow at doing so and/or costs a good bit of stam. So if deino fights it head on, the deino is gonna get mauled. If the spino follows the deino into deep water, that Spino is gonna struggle to catch the deino and the deino can bite its sail.

[viscid mica]

This

Spino is the king of shallows

But you’ll be damned to get too bold

[vale brook]

this is partly why i think deinos are stupid for being overtly scared of spino

the most popular deino spot is highlands lake

it is deep as hell

what do you expect a spino to do

it can chase you around but at the end of the day you'll be doing laps around that tub of lard

[viscid mica]

The only difference is your significantly faster in water than spino will be

Tbh deino will he mostly fine beyond over extending their welcome in shallows and on land

[slim dragon]

Deinos just can't understand the concept of not picking a fight

[hidden kettle]

Once again.. you made my day! 😂

#balance-feedback message

I know its wierd but its the same way cera got deino on its diet.. eat the Babies. ':D
Edit: doesnt nearly everything got deino on it?

[dusky surge]

that's not why cera has deino on its diet

it has deino on its diet because its a big ol scav

[hidden kettle]

And a Bully. But ye its mostly for the scav. Got the same thought about it being a "passive" cannibal.
But still fast swim Speed makes it a really fun Baby deino Catcher 😄

[dusky surge]

i mean if you're getting caught by a cera as a deino at any age that's kinda skill issue moment lol, i dont think it should be viewed as an actual hunt you can realistically take

[slim dragon]

I don't see why having a skill issue can't be considered normal behavior for deinos

[hidden kettle]

Well in swamps you got very shallow water and baby Crocs Sometimes get caught off guard there ':D
Also a Lot of tiny juvies (too small to grab someone) Sometimes feel a "Bit" too secure and think they should take a try .. surely a "Skill issue" If it miscalculate its Situation. I Just call it a greedy ooopsie

[carmine tundra]

i refuse to believe eating human meat after a while makes you taller and blind

[dusky surge]

good because thats not what happened lol

[carmine tundra]

someone told me that lmao

[dusky surge]

its called the cannibal but thats not just because "oh i ate people and now my entire physiology changed"

they're not even really human lol, they're a failed attempt at making a human

[obsidian yacht]

Or something

[mellow summit]

#balance-feedback message
how its too powerful bro

[viscid mica]

Charge bite is super strong, it gains alot of extra resistance from body’s and is rather fast

The HT changes made it all the more powerful without any real debuffs until it’s far
Too late

Over all the creature meant to be a corpse bully is the most effective hunter in the game and that ain’t a good thing

[distant prairie]

Honestly Cera should be a slower runner. Cera is a crawling tank that you should be looking out for when it comes to stealing your kill. But its way to fast and agile right now. But its been OP for so long it seems the devs dont care.

[potent fox]

It sadly needs the speed badly especially now with bigger carnis coming but agility is something you could change

[dusky surge]

i think nerfing its agility would be a mistake, given its designed to be defensive

[maiden temple]

I'd love some bleed on galli's kick. Not as much bleed as it used to be, but some

[hidden kettle]

Just remove the ability to run while Charge bite.. boom Defensive Sarah that cant be abused for offensive plays. I know cera rely a Lot on that bite but this would finally Push it into that Bully/scav once and for all. Only Problem is teno for example would just destroy cera then.. make cera 0.5 faster than teno... You can Run from it. If needed.. you already can kinda avoid it.

[dusky surge]

that is far too big a nerf lol

[hidden kettle]

Would i Like it as a cera enjoyer .. No. Am i honest that it would force IT into its branch.. yes ':D

[cosmic pelican]

Me and my friends tested cera applying this nerf just to see how it would turn out.
It got absolutely mopped by carno and teno 3/3 times.

[dusky surge]

just make the speed nerf, the thing they've already done, kick in instantly

[cosmic pelican]

I still have the carno footage if youd like to see

I hate cera as much as the next person, but that would completely kill the animal

[dusky surge]

^

[hidden kettle]

Should Work too,Just Not as Hardcore of a solution but peeps still already complain about "still too fast" "takes Not enough stam" stuff noone talked before 😄
Even with that slow its kinda the Same thing.. you cant use it really offensive since you cant Catch Up to anything

[hidden kettle]

Would like to See that. Just for the Info ^^

[cosmic pelican]

https://youtu.be/QGT_nESQfYc?si=4DmnchyMnR83JF_7 here ya go

[potent fox]

Tbf that’s open field and u still took decent dmg

Carno should win open field 9/10 times

[floral wyvern]

@fiery bough a friend of mine killed a carno as a galli and it was an accident he just wanted to annoy him 😂

[hidden kettle]

Well Open field is an Advantage. Is it on the Version we got on Public now? Or is it hordetest/ an older Version ?

Just to clarify

[cosmic pelican]

Same version we have now

[hidden kettle]

Ima try this myself as i come home. Now im curious about it 😄

[viscid mica]

@fiery bough galli bleed op galli bleed bad

Even in a reduced form the harassment potential of galli with any level of bleed is absolutely insane

Galli trots as fast almost (like 2km slower) as stego runs gallis could wipe entire servers with ease if they have bleed

Inescapable unavoidable and only 3 playables have any consistently effective counter play carno charge omni pin and pachy fracture

Everything else is kinda just screwed especially if they come in numbers

[viscid mica]

Just make the speed reduction instant and undo the other changes and boom perfectly balanced cera (imo)

[obsidian yacht]

galli bleed make sense tho

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, even with the previous bleed. The only thing that bled out before dying to damage was carno, and that normally happened when it was getting mobbed. Gali still has the damage to shred most dinos in a group (I have a clip of 4 Galis killing a cera in under 40 seconds AFTER the nerf) and bleed won’t help it when the damage ain’t enough. However, the issue imo is with bleed being used to track. Especially as the fastest Dino in the game, tracking with bleed is only used for toxicity. Namely, large groups mobbing everything they see or mixpacks using Galis to ensure players don’t escape.

Also saying pachy fractures are consistent in the slightest is a joke and you know it lmao

[hidden kettle]

well tried it a few hours now with different persons ( wanna be sure its not a single persons skill thing ) and staying defensive trade chargebites for rams it wasnt that hard to get a Carno down. Just need to be very defensive, trade and block that carno for a follow up. maybe these players havent been good carnos... 😄

Edit: could send you a Clip If you wanna. Its pretty wierd to just being able to "Body Block" the carno and trade a Charge bite to the head with a ram. Also its in the Public branch Version, Not hordetest which may be worse for carno. So to clarify additional stun buff only useful for specific dibble or cera growth state. And NOT a buff it needs on the roster we got at this Moment. (Maybe its Future orientaded which we cant speak about for now).
So yea im pretty Sure against other carni Dinos it got no need to Sprint at all besides stamina waste. Defensive cera is a Powerhouse.

[neon willow]

With the carno changes on ht, is carno able to catch up to a galli that tries to flee?

Like, is it true that if a carno sees you as a galli you're basically dead?

[hidden kettle]

Cant Galli Speed up with the calls being "uncatchable" to everything?

Maybe i got that wrong Happy to get knowledge if im false

[steep gazelle]

With the hordtest changes, Carno will now be able to reach a Gali who is not using Call F in a group without any problems

But Galli is agile, and it's actually quite easy to dodge the charge, but if he gets knocked down he's dead.

[hidden kettle]

Ouch.. thx for the new knowledge didnt touched it so far.
Thats quite harsh tbh.

[hidden kettle]

Well its not stiff for Sure.

[jovial vessel]

ohh is it the F call that gives galli that boost, i thought it was the 1 call haha

[eager saddle]

Jep F call :3

[viscid mica]

Yea

[viscid mica]

it can catch a solo

[viscid mica]

Makes sense or not it’s potential and what and how it will be used is the problem

[jovial vessel]

give galli its bleed back

[obsidian yacht]

damn you for making me think I got a ping in announcements

[viscid mica]

It servers no purpose but to encourage being a massive troll and harassing people

@hidden kettle cera would be completely fine against herbis if it had speed reduction and focused on being a corpse bully infact it’d be even better against them as it could approach any body they are trying to gaurd and push them off anything short of a trike will have issues with a 3 man of cera with body buff

[hidden kettle]

A Lot of people think running and Charge bite would be the only thing you can do about an aggressive teno.. instead of accept they can Just leave that Encounter 😄
Ye ya right about the Guardians.

Anyway i think we can both agree, cera doenst need Speed after all. If its just an instand debuff or loseing Sprint completely. It will be fine. Its not like either one way of it would make more difference imo. Cant Catch up to anything while doing it. Only thing harder to do would be running around a dibble/Trike since you cant run faster than it turns ( at least i think so, should Test that).
Still these two are easy to avoid by simply based speed.

[viscid mica]

With body buff a solo cera could tank a teno and win in current state on HT (if slow was instant)

[viscid mica]

Plus as previously said cera ain’t intended to be as active of a hunter

[hidden kettle]

Cera already is a Powerhouse on defense but with a Body it can Tank pretty much everything.
Ye exaclty its meant to scav and Bully Not to Catch its food ^^

[viscid mica]

Ong

[thorn mountain]

@fiery bough play HT maia

its actually a menace

[twilit juniper]

@fiery bough
About your maia feedback, just to clarify, Maia stomp DEFINITELY doesn’t do just 175 dmg base damage, a stomp to a ceras head takes off 33% of its hp, which means that’s 429 damage, so let’s take off the headshot multiplier and the base damage ends up being around 350 base damage per stomp on bodies, I don’t know about you, but that seems pretty damn strong- it’s the same as other strong herbivores like dibble and teno, more like dibble damage. The only reason I could see a reason of someone thinking Maia is weak is because to get that good damage in, you more times than not have to get a good shove off, which only does 50 damage, and then a stomp, while the other 2 herbivores stun with a powerful attack AND punish with a powerful attack- opposite for Maia
Maia 3-4 shots carno/cera (1300hp) like teno and dibble do

And as frolo also said, HT maias movement and cooldown reduction makes it an absolute beast- you can even get 2 stomps in if you time it correctly on a stunned target unlike live branch cause stomp is just a TINY bit slower on live That’s either 700 dmg or 900 dmg

I also understand the teno confusion, but just because tenos smaller, doesn’t mean it SHOULD be weaker, teno is slow and doesn’t technically have loads of hp, it needs a way to fend off bigger/stronger herbis and carnivores.
Maia has much more upsides than teno does, for example, it gets to disengage from fights or even run down Omnis (0.1 faster than Omnis), it’s 3.8tons, incredibly fast, completely omnidirectional attacks unlike tenos mostly being rear attacks, having a higher camera angle so you can see danger easier, incredible agility once you master its stance switching, I could keep going 😅
They’re both just a matter of play styles- as both grow around the same exact time, do the same damage but excel at different things

[viscid mica]

The base stomp (double tap one )

Does 150 per stomp base and the charged does stun plus I think 250? Or maybe 200 I might be wrong the hold one

That means a base left click if both stomps hit does a min 300 likely more as they tend to hit hs hitbox often

So your doing more like 500ish damage

Each kick is like 200 min too I don’t know exact value

[twilit juniper]

what even is the base stomp and charged stomp 💀 pretty sure the only stomp is where u hold down left click and u slam down with both feet and then ur stuck in a cooldown

[viscid mica]

If you just left click in quad you do a lil double stomp

[twilit juniper]

ooh, the one that moves u foward?

[viscid mica]

Charged is held left click which applies a stun

[viscid mica]

Ye

[twilit juniper]

ooh, true, maybe he was actually refering to that one-

but imo noone should ever use those 3 attacks, the 3 variations of the moving stomp, its so hard to land 💔

[viscid mica]

Which he isn’t wrong but he isn’t right cuz if you hit the first you’ll hit the second

[twilit juniper]

yeah

[viscid mica]

So it will never do under 300 damage

Unless you are clipping the tail

[twilit juniper]

✅

also the islecord ping made me really happy and then really sad thought it was finally time

[viscid mica]

Yall are really down bad

Like genuinely

[twilit juniper]

Its disheartning when HT was fixed last week and now its fully broken again, NOTHING HAPPENED how does code break just out of nowhere

i just wanna play HT maia sob

HT maia >>>> rex

[viscid mica]

You they miss placed a .

[twilit juniper]

[viscid mica]

Welcome to programming

[hasty coyote]

The stamps (the basic left click) deal 100 each, so 200 if you hit both. The charged stomp has 2 hitboxes of 175 each, so 350 if you hit both.

[viscid mica]

Am I think HT?

No wait

I’m dumb yes that

[hasty coyote]

Maia has not had any damage changes, unless it had a shadow change.

[viscid mica]

AHHHHHHH

[hasty coyote]

So Maia def can deal some solid damage, but it’s def low for its size. Which is fine because it’s FAST. It doesn’t need to deal more, be faster, and have more hp than teno and cera. With its current attacks, it still barely wins a face tank and trading hits against those 2.

[eager saddle]

It’s code. You blink and it breaks

[fiery bough]

Maybe the info I have is old 🤷🏽‍♂️ they don’t list its damages on the guide or wiki so I go off a guide from a reddit post which honestly seems accurate. Me and my friends play Maia pretty often and half the time we KOS Ceras since there’s not really a reason to let them live near us. We’ll get 5+ stomps on one’s body or head without a corpse nearby for it to buff off of and it’ll still be running around.

[hasty coyote]

the stomp has 2 hitboxes of 175 (one on each leg), so its 350 total if you hit both. So if you only hit 1 hitbox or hit the tail, that would be why they survive.

[fiery bough]

So I need to hit their head and their body to do full damage? 💀 that’s totally a great way to model damage

[hasty coyote]

you can hit the head if their head is in the center of your stomp, the hitboxes do overlap

[dusky surge]

@quick pendant #balance-feedback message

Making all apex carnivores cannibals would help increase their numbers though. More diet options, easier to sustain yourself as a rex in a server full of rexes

[quick pendant]

yes, but if you are larger you wont gain much from killing them, and if they kill the babies they would have to restart therefore increasing their window of weakness to lower tier carnivores. which would also make it take longer and a lot harder to grow rex/apexes and therefore discouraging apex play to some extent

[dusky surge]

but the babies wont lose basically any time and they'll get tons of diets from finding basically any corpse of a larger apex

all it does is make it easier to grow, not harder

and its not like an adult rex is consistently catching smaller rexes, who are ridiculously fast

[coarse blaze]

Cannibalism is why Carno megapacks were once an issue

[hasty coyote]

making rex a canni is just giving them more diet options, which just makes them easier to grow/sustain. If you want them to have a hard time sustaining themselves and have more competition, then change how their hunger works directly.

[coarse blaze]

Or why Spiro made growing Deino insanely easy and there were a majority of them per server.

[hasty coyote]

also putting a population cap is bad imo, because theres a LOT of holes in that plan. What if someone already has a rex on a server? What about nesting? What happens when a single group take all the rex slots on the server? What about the people who wait an hour+ in queue just to be met with "nope, you don't get to play your dino today"? What about all the server slots that are gonna be wasted as people just wait in the spawn menu to play rex?

Overall, it just causes a LOT more issues than it solves in the large scale. Its fine in the small scale with petis, since they have constant admins to monitor and ensure no foul play is happening, they only have 2 servers, and they have plenty of slots on those servers.

[quick pendant]

i did say in the idea that i'd prefer to just have them stop allowing spawns when a certain number of that apex is already alive, so you wont have any complications. i do think cannibalism is still gonna help somewhat especially when there are more apexes since like i said the bigger ones can kill the smaller ones, and then the smaller ones that died will have to respawn over and over, and giving more oppertunities to smaller carnivores. also the idea of bigger and smaller i mean like 20% growth difference or something, im aware juvi rex is fast, but can it outrun another slightly larger juvi rex. this would also mean most people would rather kill other rexes rather than grouping up in a swarm, and also with deino they are kinda rare since they usually kos others and you only find 1 or 2 per water area and its usually only popular areas they are in. (i am also aware that people will likely overpack with rex anyway just like deino sometimes, so it's just a side thing to tey and help reduce the amount of rexes trying to overpack. also the only real difference with cannibalism rex will gain is just slightly more diets, which most likely if its smaller than you wont be gaining much)

[hasty coyote]

I think the best solution is to make rexes absolute PAIN to grow, that way many people are dissuaded from growing rexes, and most of those that do just end up as food for the small tiers who can bully them.

[quick pendant]

really the only thing i meant by my post was to reduce apexes and not make it turn into legacy, legacy was only a horrible game to me because there were only either rex, giga, spino, trike, or utah's. on decently rare occasions i would find allo's but thats it

[quick pendant]

i said with nesting that you can still spawn, most rexes probably wont even nest anyway. and then if you already have a rex on that server then you can still spawn as it when you load in, thats how petits pieds does it atleast, there is no problem to me. this will only make it harder for people to get a rex spawn as there needs to be below a certain number of living rexes to be able to spawn, and if you load in on a already made one, that will increase its numbers so it will take longer of waiting and people will likely get bored and just play a non apex. also on petits pieds they have a high max pop of 340 and its at that max most of the time so yes a lot of people will be waiting for a rex unlock, but with that many people it wont be dead servers because "everyone is waiting in the menus for theirdino" since it already happens but most people just move on to sum else when their dino is max pop

[hasty coyote]

The issue there is that juvies eating other juvies is just a net positive in time investment. For example, a 5 minute old rex can feed another juvie for 30 minutes. So thats a net positive and just makes growing rex easier rather than harder. Yeah you will die more in the early stages, but once you get past that, you get an abundant free food source. Compare that to non-canni rex, who now actually has to go hunt other juvies and smalls to grow. Now the more rexes there are, the harder it is to grow rex, since you have less food sources. Grouping in a swarm also becomes BETTER with cannibals since you can just eat the fallen members even if you fail a hunt, rather than non-cannis who then have to find other food sources.

Again, cannibalism just gives MORE food options, the canni kills will not outweigh the benefit of the food they drop for the cannis.

[quick pendant]

i mean either way im going to be on petits pieds after apex drops since they are going to have a low pop max for apexes, but i just wanted to share the fact that on officials and ht its just gonna become legacy. i especially wanna play ht as sum and not run into 99 rexes.

[quick pendant]

well with like a 10% to 20% growth difference the larger rex will be a lot larger when compared to other dino's so only being like 10-15% larger wont really feed the larger rex to kill a fresh spawn, this will only really make a major difference to similar sized rexes. this is already seen in most carnivores. killing a fresh spawn dilo as lets say a 25-30% carno feeds near nothing and barely any diets at all. but you will still do it for the fun and you do get a "benefit"

[hasty coyote]

again, it works for Petis and thats fine. but the official servers only have 100 slots and have around 20 different servers to monitor. If theres only 10 rex slots on a server and 30 people want to play rex, that still means 30 slots are gone for rex, except 20 of those slots are not growing rexes, they are just taking slots. At least with growing rexes they have the chance to die and feed others.

Plus, depending on the amount of slots, I can EASILY see trolls just filling up the slots with juvie rexes on bad diets just to ensure others dont get to play... or worse.

[quick pendant]

imo they would have to test through this, but they need to make servers max pop rise especially when it comes to adding more dinos, if the dinos were split evenly between population based on what they plan to add, having 100 players will mean there would only be like 2 of each species which will once again encourage apex play instead of smaller tier pack hunters. im sure the servers will be extremely laggy when testing through this. but it would be a necessity imo. (they should also reduce the amount of servers but increase the max pop per server so they have less places to moniter and more people per server so pack hunters are more likely to find others)

[hasty coyote]

I can agree with making something to limit their population, but cannibalism does the opposite and putting a cap doesnt solve the root problem. Instead, make rex difficult to grow and sustain while adult, so many die trying. That way smalls get plenty of food sources, large rexes will be more uncommon, and people still get to play rex (until they realize they dont want the hassle).

[quick pendant]

i mean that could work yeah, i mean the idea to start was rex was gonna be hard to grow regardless, then adding cannibalism might make it easier for some rexes and harder for the others, so i mean either way works for me. like i said i just wanted to share that on officials it's gonna suck if they dont do some sort of population control whether they just make it harder to grow, or add a max pop etc

[hasty coyote]

if you are killing something 10th of your size and not getting much food out of it, then you arent doing it for the food in the first place. So if you are wanting big rexes to hunt small ones, making them canni will not change a thing. Not to mention the fact rex slows down considerably as it grows, so big ones are gonna struggle to hunt smaller ones. Its mostly going to be slightly bigger vs slightly smaller, which just makes one sustainable. Or rex megapacks that kill all other rexes and apexes because they can sustain off of them. And even if they lose a member, they just eat them too.

[hasty coyote]

they def will need to increase the player count or split the roster between servers. But atm its not feasible, or they would have already done it.

[thorn mountain]

@quick pendant just make it so rex isnt a canni

then they wont live easily and will starve therefor playing something else

[quick pendant]

theres nothing stopping a rex from eating another rex for food, besides that you might not want muscle spasms, but i think filling up on food but get muscle spasms is better than dying of starvation (plus you can get the canni mut anyway

[thorn mountain]

Yeah but look at it this way

[thorn mountain]

if a rex does that they get debuffs to diet meaning they grow super slowly, they get muscle spasms and a bunch of other things. People will kill others as rex but it will keep the population down no matter what. You kill a rex boom less pop you dont boom you starve and you die lowering the pop

giving a limit is just not fun for the people who want to play it but they cant cause ooo you did not get in fast enough or their are bots just grinding out rexes or waiting till a rex dies and instantly spawning

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message I disagree with this feedback

[rough pewter]

Should Hypsi be able to climb like a Squirrell, more agile then herra and able to climb horizontally

[viscid mica]

@quick pendant that’s a bad mentality when you consider how different they are

Stats meant everything in legacy cuz combat was super 1D nothing smaller stood a chance even in numbers

Which isn’t the truth now I don’t see how apex’s being added will suddenly make it legacy of endless apex’s especially when apex’s are significantly harder too keep alive

Plus if that were true why don’t we see endless deino and stegos?

[quick pendant]

well mainly since rex, giga, spino are notouriosly main stream carnivores, deino is stuck in the water so thats why most people wouldnt play that as an alternative, and stego is because it is extremely slow and a herbi, im calling it on rex/trike release it will be primarily the only dinos you will see, and will stay that way unless they nerf them in some way to discourage players cough carno cough

[viscid mica]

Primary? Na

Especially with allo hot on ankles

[quick pendant]

i did say also in my post that the main dinos that you would only find were either apex's, allo or utah

[viscid mica]

Trikes will be like stegos now a dime a dozen far more rare than not and I doubt a server will sustain more than 5 FG Rex’s at a time

[viscid mica]

Until the rest of the roaster comes

I can see it being them for like maybe a year until we start dropping other things

Apex’s will always be the most popular but evirma food system makes it impossible for servers to sustain apex’s like legacy did

[quick pendant]

tbh most of the roster isnt that exciting to me, like cera has vomit and body buff, most of the other dinos based on concept art are just gonna be a normal and non unique dino. of course theres still some unique ones (namely minmi, austro, sucho, mono are the main ones i can think of)

[viscid mica]

That’s a you thing to be fair

I can get not finding stuff interesting to your liking or play style

[quick pendant]

but most of the roster left to be added are just gonna be (based on) concept just a larger or smaller dino, with different basic stats from others

[viscid mica]

But I really don’t see us having the legacy issue

Where out of 100 80 are apex’s

[viscid mica]

Ignoring their hunting niche’s and why type of combat they specialize in like same weight punch down or punch up

[quick pendant]

we'll see how that goes tho tbf on how unique htey make each dino ig

[viscid mica]

I dunno I’d say current roaster is very well spread tbf

Like name a Dino you think is gonna be super generic

[quick pendant]

i just mean like its just a dinosaur, like herrera can climb and thats really cool, cera can make dinos vomit and get body buff, hypsi can blind dinos with its vomit, dilo has the whole venom mechanic, to me it seems dinos like acro, berto, giga, spino, rex (i'll have to take a moment to think)

are gonna be boring in terms of real uniqueness and not just stats unique

[viscid mica]

So it’s the big Dino vibe you don’t care for

[quick pendant]

well what i mean is that those named dinos based on concept art, isnt gonna be crazy unique on attacks or mechanics, like spino is the most unique namely with being able to flip anky's

[viscid mica]

I mean tbf if you really think about it there isn’t much you can do with Dino’s when a lot of them are the same just in different sizes

[quick pendant]

giga is just gonne deal a lot of bleed, rex can pin a dino which would be cool if a good amount of carnivores didnt already have it in game and concept art wise

[viscid mica]

Like what’s the difference in reality between troo, omni and allo?

Or Ava, dibble, trike?

Anything with big claws like Chrus and theri

[quick pendant]

idk ava could get some cool mechanics, like protoceratops can naturally drink salt water and can steal burrows from dryo in the concept art

[viscid mica]

Ya but everything will have variations like that

Even acro berto giga spoon and Rex

Acro will chokehold and specialize in felling giants

Berto the mid tier king

Giga the lord of blood

Spoon the shallow feind

And Rex the land giant

[quick pendant]

im gonna be honest, out of all those named dinos i said alberto has to be the most basic based on concept, it doesnt show a single unique thing besides child abuse

[viscid mica]

Leave my OG alone we beat the charges in court I swear

I get that its concept art doesn’t show anything

The explanation devs gave was also incredibly vague

[quick pendant]

i like alberto a lot, im anticipating sucho, bary, kentro, alberto, acro and thats it i think

[viscid mica]

From what we understand high dps for stam

[viscid mica]

Ya I get that basically you just don’t fw super sized and are worried about legacy 70% apex happening again

Even if it did they wouldn’t be FGs it’d be like 10 FGs out of all of them

Plus it’s a lot easier to enjoy smaller things since everything plays so differently now

Instead of all the same but ones bigger

[quick pendant]

yes i also dont like full apexes, sub apex is fine to me and below, but im just saying that i dont wanna see most of the servers max pop of apexes since they actually made some smaller dinos unique and they will just go extinct or rare because of apexes imo in its current idea, i do see that they wont have muchfood given the current roster rex's only main foods could be trike, stego, deino, and other rex's. and i heard rex can run really fast for its size but it drains a lot of stam so you can just outrun most mid tier - sub apex if you get close enough

also kinda think thye shouldve built up a support structure before adding apex's, like add some mid tiers, maybe a sub apex or 2, then maybe add apexes. but in the current state it doesnt seem like apex play has much support currently and is unpredictable how apex carnivores will work when rex releases

[viscid mica]

Unless the entire server collectively decided to play apex’s you won’t see more than 10fg carnis and even than that’s shooting high

[potent fox]

One thing that was supposed to be entirely different about evrima is that every Dino is unique and has unique mechanics. I’m very certain that even the bigger theropods are gonna have things that differentiate them from others

[viscid mica]

Yeaaaaa………

I’d say like 7-10 FG carni apex’s depending on server pop will be the max unless there are ALOT of people with very sizeably grown large Dino’s

Which won’t happen

[quick pendant]

also now that i think of it, wasnt rex supposed to be released first week of june and move trike/other changes to main branch? i dont exactly hate them for not doing it, but if they say sum they should be consistant atleast

[viscid mica]

Can’t see a single server on say 200 pop successfully sustaining more than 7-10 fg carnis between Rex gigas and spoons m

[viscid mica]

No they never dropped dates

He said he wanted to move trike but stuff fell through

They been pumping out bug fixes thou

[quick pendant]

yeah, when apex's go live im only playing petits pieds since they said they will have a pretty low max pop for apexes

honestly i just wanna see the carno/cera changes on main branch, carno is horrible to grow rn (on petits pieds) and cera changes balance it somewhat atleast

[viscid mica]

I think servers enforcing numbers of people playing something is stupid

Evirma food system is not legacy

Even a 250 like them will not sustain that many FGs

[quick pendant]

well i like it in its current state since you wont only find ceras or omnis etc, and people actually play most of the other roster, like omni is most of the time max pop which is cool to see, and most of the dinos are actually spread based on how much of each specie is on the map

[viscid mica]

I cannot see the rest of the planned Dino’s for this year taking anywhere near as long as Rex and trike HT

[quick pendant]

dryo/hypsi/ptera/galli/beipi are pretty common to find on that server aswell

[viscid mica]

Herbis is 1 thing

But the devs just need to make patrols not super op

[viscid mica]

I mean most og isle players or people who enjoy more casual isle play on unofficials

I play to remain official until a far larger portion of the roaster is out

[quick pendant]

yeah i played official for a long time, i just play petit pieds for the max pop lock so species are more common for the extinct ones and the popular are less common, and the rules are pretty light. plus the mods are chill and will actually efficiently help with something usch as cheating etc

[viscid mica]

I’m not a huge fan of pop locking mainly cuz the long term effects aren’t good in the short term it’s fine but once the roaster is more rounded all it does is cause issues with no actual benefit

@slim dragon isnt dryo and galli the same weight rn?

[slim dragon]

No, dryo is 130 kg while galli is 425 kg
Tho I didn't mention galli in my feedback

[viscid mica]

Is it really?

I swear dryo isn’t that small

[stark knoll]

Either 130 or 120

[viscid mica]

What am I thinking of that I played that I’m confusing for dryo now

[slim dragon]

Dryo isn't that small visually, it's just paperweight for some reason
I think omni stole half its mass

[viscid mica]

Meh I’ll go play dryo later

[slim dragon]

Why did you downvote tho ? Please enlighten me

[crimson crater]

nah dryo looks beipi sized lol, it isn’t even taller than a blade of grass.

[viscid mica]

I’m very pro omni pounce I don’t think rewarding people for getting close or being dumb near something that specializes in deleting stuff its size and below

Now do note I think omni math is only ok cuz of omnis size

[slim dragon]

It would be ok if omni was like, half as big as it is
Or much slower

[viscid mica]

Everything smaller does will or is planned to have a way to escape or evade omni

[viscid mica]

it will affect under half the roaster when it’s all said and done and even than many can avoid it ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slim dragon]

The thing is, nothing under 450kg is allowed to even try fighting an omni, because it's guaranteed death

[viscid mica]

1 thing you can’t fight ain’t world ending

This is why I’m pro this as well

[slim dragon]

Half the roster is already way too much

Also it isn't just about omni

Allo and rex will be getting pin too

And probably others as well

[viscid mica]

Well below half I was just being generous

[viscid mica]

If their math is the same I can see the issue but so long as the math is different to account for size than it’s fine

[slim dragon]

It's just not about math, pin is terribly anti-fun, just like deino lunge is

I'm not even proposing a nerf to its power, just a nerf to how easy it is to use

There shouldn't be such a thing as an insta-win button unless there is a massive size difference

[viscid mica]

As long as it is something limited to afew and done under the right conditions I think it’s fine

To be frank if your something half Rex’s weight why are you that close to it?

[slim dragon]

Don't you think it's a shame to have such an interesting combat system compared to other survival games, completely neutered by one over-powered ability ?

[viscid mica]

Deino loses a lot of power in exchange for being able to ctrlaltdelete stuff half its size

[slim dragon]

Deino is not fine tho

[viscid mica]

The problem is I don’t think it’s op

It’s a survival horror

It PvP comp

Some things aren’t meant to be fair

[slim dragon]

What does it have to do with the topic ?

[viscid mica]

It’s why it’s not op

[slim dragon]

But it is
Even if its survival horror, there can be such a thing as something being OP

Because as you said, its PvP
And balance is something extremely important in PvP games

[viscid mica]

Yet it’s also a hardcore survival game

So long as everything has the option of fight or flight it’s fine

[slim dragon]

With omni we have a situation where EVERYTHING under 450kg needs to be given a special treatment so it's not omni food
That's what it is

If you're under 450kg and don't have a special ability to climb, dive or somehow be able to get away from one of the fastest animals in the game, you're unviable

[slim dragon]

But right now pin eliminates the very concept of fighting back
Which is way too binary for a game like this

[viscid mica]

That’s why everything under omni size has one of those or is planned too

[viscid mica]

Flight

Evade or hide

[slim dragon]

And that's the issue
It makes everything smaller than omni a purely "flight" animal

Proto won't even be able to exist, or it will be butchered into a skittish animal it isn't supposed to be

And allo having pin just duplicates the problem on a larger scale

[viscid mica]

Flight from omni specifically

[viscid mica]

If it’s math was the same sure

[slim dragon]

Because everything under a certain weight threshold will need to be turned into flight animals, otherwise they become unviable

[viscid mica]

That’s fine

[slim dragon]

It will be the case unless allo is limited to pinning things under 450kg

[viscid mica]

If it’s 50% its weight it’s fine it won’t be faster than any of them and if they are in groups they’ll do enough damage to fight back

[slim dragon]

And then with rex everything under an even higher threshold will be forced into a flight niche
And you think that's fine ?
To have 3 animals dictating how the rest of the entire roster should play and prevent any of them from being designed as a fighter ?

[slim dragon]

Don't get the group argument into this, you know it's terrible

Pin is just so unfun and one-sided

[viscid mica]

Yup

That’s 3 outs what 50?

And they only effect certain amounts

Plus pin isn’t a 1 tap

[slim dragon]

yes
3 animals with an ability so OP the ENTIRE roster needs to be adapted to counter them specifically

[slim dragon]

It literally is

[viscid mica]

It is a garanteed dot if nothing intervenes

Meaning that if you aren’t alone it isn’t anywhere near as useful

[slim dragon]

And what if something intervenes ? They'd need to do enough damage to kill the pinner before the target dies

[slim dragon]

Ok, what if there's 2 omnis then ? Or 2 allos ?

[viscid mica]

Kinda yes no maybe?

[slim dragon]

With groups we can just increase the numbers on both sides and never come to a solution

[viscid mica]

Run hide fleee

Why MUST you fight?

[slim dragon]

Because some animals are designed as such

Why MUST omni win against everything smaller than it, be it by 1kg, without them having a chance to fight back ?

[viscid mica]

Never said it must

Just that it’s fine

[viscid mica]

Poor design

If they can’t do one or the other I see the issue

Now on that point with hypsi now having climb it either needs some improvement to its climb or more speed as it’s very slow and climb is really difficult

[slim dragon]

The issue is, as I said, everything below a certain weight threshold CAN'T be designed as a fighter animal

Because pin exists

[viscid mica]

No no

They can

They just need to designed with omni in mind

Troodons for example big time fighter they just can’t fight specifically omnis easily

[slim dragon]

So they need to be designed to run away from one of the fastest animals in the game

[viscid mica]

Hiding counts too

Or other methods

Burrowing

Directly specific pounce immunity (Ava)

[slim dragon]

Pounce immunity on ava ? Where did you get that from ?

[viscid mica]

Armour that has such a high damage reduction pounce can’t do much (minmi)

[viscid mica]

Directly specific

Front facing pounce no no

Assuming it smaller

While unlikely that is

[slim dragon]

And you think it's perfectly normal to have so many things exist on so many animals to counter omni SPECIFICALLY, in a game with over 50 playables ?

Isn't that telling of some kind of issue ?

[viscid mica]

Yes

And answer to second is no

Creatures having stuff specific counter to another is completely fair

[slim dragon]

But that's a bit extreme

[viscid mica]

When you fight someone and you know they like to leg sweep are you not gonna have a counter?

[slim dragon]

What does that have to do with the point ?

[viscid mica]

Is it “op” in a street fight if your against a 400lb muscle man who can cave your skull in with his punch?

Or will you learn how to dodge?

[slim dragon]

What does that have to do with the point ?

[viscid mica]

Or just avoid altercation all together

[viscid mica]

It has everything it’s hardcore survival

[slim dragon]

What's OP is when a game has one ability so strong every single character in the game has to be designed around that specific ability so they are viable

[viscid mica]

Only reason it wouldn’t is if you choose to think it doesn’t

It’s the same concept

Is it unfair in rust that the AK is so much better than the p2?

[slim dragon]

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of a game

[viscid mica]

While not the exact same it’s the point that matters

[slim dragon]

I haven't played rust so I can't say if the balance is fine or not, but if there's two different weapons with one being better than the other in every way, why have 2 different weapons at all

It's just game design

[viscid mica]

One is harder to achieve than the other

[slim dragon]

And fairness is more important than you think it is in game design

[viscid mica]

If you walk into a boxing gym you think you’re betting the 5 year vet?

Fairness in survival is an illusion

Not everything is fair

Sometimes you gotta find whys around those obstacles

[slim dragon]

I'd like to quote the devs of "Enter the Gungeon", who said "we wanted the player to understand that it's their own fault whenever they die, not because of RNG or situations they couldn't avoid"

And as a result, despite being very hard, Enter the Gungeon is extremely enjoyable
Because it's fair

[slim dragon]

Ok what the F are these comparisons

[viscid mica]

It’s your own fault for going near the omnis

[arctic sigil]

#balance-feedback message i liked this one, so pinning becomes more a stealth and ambush thing than just a (i see someone and i want it dead even if he sees me from far away)

[viscid mica]

Aight I’ll use isle exclusives since trying to use some irl examples clearly are confusing you

[slim dragon]

this is going in circles

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[slim dragon]

Why are you even trying to use irl examples when talking about game balance

[viscid mica]

I’m trying to explain my mindset on hardcore survival balancing

[slim dragon]

Like I get that in a real battlefield I have 90% chances of dying to a stray bullet, or artillery, or idk what, before I even see an enemy
But in a game that wouldn't be very fun

[slim dragon]

You're forgetting the Isle is a game

[viscid mica]

True

[slim dragon]

it's a hardcore survival game, not just hardcore survival

[viscid mica]

No im elaborating mindset not perfectly balanced

As I’ve said countless times so long as everything can do one of two things fight or flight I am satisfied

I don’t need to fight and kill everything as anything else

Somethings simply aren’t meant to be taken on as others

A solo omni wouldn’t dare to challenge a dibble

A allo a Alberto

A Alberto a acro

A acro a Rex

A Rex a cama

A cama a dondi

A dondi a kissen

(She scary)

(Excuse my yapping in that last bit lmao)

My point really just comes down to not everything MUST fight everything that’s what makes the ecosystem a eco system

[slim dragon]

Unless it's weakened
But that doesn't apply to pinners

[viscid mica]

why doesn’t it

[slim dragon]

Because they pin you once and you're dead, the fight is over as soon as it begun

[viscid mica]

But if it’s something you never stood a chance against anyway why does it matter?

(To be fair it also gets messy with some things that are special cases do to speed >_> galli)

[arctic sigil]

but a omni should stand a chance against other omni, rn the first one landing a pounce no matter the position, ambush or health will kill the other

[viscid mica]

Now that I’ll agree with retaliatory damage should be equal or greater than if allowing pin

[maiden temple]

Amazing counter list

or rather a food chain

[viscid mica]

Just things you wouldn’t 1v1 as the other

[maiden temple]

Stam reserve based pin sounds nice, anything that makes carnis make smart decisions is great imo

I love picking targets that were running for a long while or just finished a fight already 😄

Finishing a stego that was just fighting deinos

[viscid mica]

I just don’t like rewarding people for going near something that specializes in killing stuff your size

Like we both know the only thing really benefiting from this is galli and gallis are massive trolls who always be trying to pick fights

[slim dragon]

It's not as much rewarding the other for going near than asking the omni to use a braincell

[maiden temple]

I'd also like to have the fast stand up consume stamina again. Everything gets up way too fast now

[arctic sigil]

looks like galli also got buffed and now cant be pinned

490kg

[maiden temple]

That's still pinnable ;o

Oh wait no

[slim dragon]

Doesn't galli still have the exception that it can still be pinned when it's heavier than the pouncer ?

[maiden temple]

Raptor is 450 not 500

[arctic sigil]

could be, didnt tested myself but the omnis ive seen could not be fg

[maiden temple]

490 is a lot for such a fast playable tbh

[slim dragon]

It has it on live branch

A 400kg omni can pin a FG galli

[maiden temple]

Were there any changes to pachy yet?

[slim dragon]

Pachy ? Never heard of that guy

[maiden temple]

I miss playing it, but refuse to grow just to be easy food ;_;

[rotund sage]

might be an unpopular opinion, but doesn t teno feel way too strong in terms of being able to trait kicks against everything and bleed them down or just outdps them? And in return just getting relatively little dmg due to 70% of its body is arguably getting counted as its tail

[slim dragon]

Teno is a brawler, with no carnivore really designed to match it atm

Well cera can but it isn't really supposed to be hunting it

[rotund sage]

on the servers i play atm tenos roam around and bleed out or just kick to death everything be it herb or carni the exception is cera where they do take losses if the ceras know what they are doing and deino because of its habitat, but the bleed out even fg stegs given time much faster and better than any omni pack i have seen

[steep gazelle]

It's a good weight. You still have to be careful, as an Omni will still kill you with just the dmg puounce without any problems, but it's better than be pinned

[arctic sigil]

nah teno is just a great midtier who has the upperhand in most 1v1 vs others mid tiers of its size, when more , bigger midtiers comes teno wont look that op

[maiden temple]

Way better yeah, more HP is better for solo play I suppose

[maiden temple]

Absolutely not, that's by far the most balanced dino we have with the most enjoyable skillset. Having attacks pretty much only in the back makes it not a good pursuer as well, encouraging more defensive playstyle

Also the long tail is a downside as you take hits you should have avoided, can be KO'd by a high tail hit as well, which is annoying

If tenos roam around bleeding out fg stegos that's a sign the stegos aren't very smart

[dusky surge]

galli still gets pinned

[twilit juniper]

Unfortunately 💔 could have been a fair matchup-
But you can still 1v1 a raptor if your a good galli, cause you can stun it just before it gets the pin as a fg galli, run away, wait for the stun threshold to open, and do it again till it dies-

[dusky surge]

personally i think its fine that galli gets pinned, because now you can free your frends as another galli

[twilit juniper]

True, like PROPERLY free them

I just miss when galli and raptor had a fair fight 💔

Rather than being purposely made Omni food for most of its evrima existence

[dusky surge]

i mean

it always has been pinned by omni since day one tho

what made it fair before was that galli could stun omni, freeing other gallis

[twilit juniper]

Has it? Pretty sure on release it wasn’t, my bad then

[dusky surge]

it was heavier on release, but still had the pin exception

it being put to 490 actually finally makes it go back to how it was

[twilit juniper]

Worth then if that’s the case

[dusky surge]

its only 20kg short of its release weight

the only difference is i dont think it can stun pachies anymore, which is fine

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"Pachys seem overtuned"

They are literally the worst animal in the game atm

"Stegos feel fine with damage but feel super overtuned with how little they are punished with stamina consumption"

They have the highest stamcost move in the entire game

out of every point you could've picked you picked the 2 which literally are just objectively untrue lol

[viscid mica]

@ashen crane aight I’m not trying to be a d about this

Like I got some boiling hot opinions too but I gotta ask how many hours of pachy have you played?

[ashen crane]

around 200 hours, maybe 250

[amber wharf]

this right here. pachy is in an absolute TERRIBLE spot right now. 😭 pachy is only good if it is in a BIG herd.

[ashen crane]

i have 2700 hours in this game

[viscid mica]

Of pachy exclusively?

And you think pachy is too strong?

[ashen crane]

of pachy exclusively probably 200-250 of those

[viscid mica]

[ashen crane]

yes. unless its a carno or cero its 100% overtuned

[amber wharf]

bro died as a carno too many times to a pachy. 💀

[ashen crane]

Nah i kill them which is why i think its stupid

[amber wharf]

elaborate how you think pachy is too strong, please. 😂

[viscid mica]

Na that’s crazy

[amber wharf]

i don't play carni much but last time i played carno, 2 pachies had the jump on me and i killed them INCREDIBLY easy. like within 20 seconds and they didn't break anything. they were landing their hits, but it just wasn't enough / gurantee break.

[viscid mica]

1v1?

[viscid mica]

Usually they could get breaks but you’d still win the damage game cuz pachy has god awful damage

[amber wharf]

even this lol. i could just face tank them and still win, even if they fractured everything. 🤷

i get them doing fracture can be irritating but calling them too strong is crazy work.

[ashen crane]

1. Headbutt is actually nutty, and good players know how to loop any carnivore, or omnivore, and continue to headbut.
2. They have a fairly decent healthpool putting them at a good tanky level without being considered a tank like the stego. But enough to where you think youd win, but you dont.
3. They have a small hitbox. Me and some friends have done extensive testing and i have vod proof but they have a super janky hitbox and cause no regs to happen alot.
4. Its speed and manuverability is on par with some of the most formidable predators giving it advantages across almost so many sides without disadvantages

The game's current meta and the skill of players also amplify the Pachy's power. Skilled players who can time their headbutts and manage their positioning well will make a Pachy feel far more powerful than a casual player might experience.

[viscid mica]

Ong like self stun so slow that cera can run them down omni can basically front pin

[ashen crane]

Im not saying every casual becomes a god. But it does need to be looked at and balanced for both SKILLED and CASUAL

[amber wharf]

not to mention 2 bites from cera = throw up and you are dead because vomit animation.

[viscid mica]

You playing on officials?

Cuz pachy is super slow…

For things its size atleast

[ashen crane]

dude i have owned this game for so long. officials, unofficials, my own servers, or we go mess around in chinese servers

im not here to argue, this the first time im making a statment on this server because Generally they balance super well

but herbivores feel overtuned

[amber wharf]

I'm a pretty decent pachy, but the things you are listening is crazy. The speed? Ceratos can chase them down, you know this right?... Carno has no trouble chasing it down as well as knocking it over and at that point, it's dead in the water. The headbutt doesn't even do much dmg, most pachies deal with wind up because if things get dicey they will be able to escape if they land a fracture.

[viscid mica]

I’m just wondering cuz pachy is not fast so to say it’s got speed comparable is wild

[dusky surge]

1. Headbutt is the single clunkiest move in the game, leaving it entirely open if used incorrectly or whiffed
2. Pachy has slightly more HP than a raptor, less than a dilo. It also has a headshot damage reduction, but not by much
3. Their hitbox is not that small, its pretty much on-par for its size. It's still larger than an omni's
4. It has GARBAGE speed for its size, only BARELY outspeeding cera (unless the cerato takes speed mutations), and cerato is meant to be slow for a 1300kg animal. Pachy is 500kg and barely faster

[viscid mica]

You on evirma or legacy?

[amber wharf]

i've been chased down by ceratos constantly even w/ phototissue. :(

[viscid mica]

Even if used correctly you self stun and are open to response

[dusky surge]

Pachy also has one of the worst trots in the entire game on top of everything

[amber wharf]

if anything, pachy needs a BUFF.

[viscid mica]

I mean if you hold right click you pimp walk so it’s aight