balance-feedback-discussion

[hasty coyote]

I think you either fundamentally don’t understand how to deal with pachies, or severely overestimate how strong pachies are.

If Pachy bonks, you trade with it, they don’t stun you but stun themself. If you just trade with them, they will die incredibly quickly. Especially since if you just walk and face your tail to them, their hits literally won’t register.

Like trading bonk for tail slam and kick literally isn’t worth it for them unless they got like 5+, especially if you position yourself so they can’t hit the leg and head

[worthy steeple]

the hit not registering is very random and buggy, i’d rather not test that on survival.

and i do not overestimate them, they are strong, the fractures are insane, even if i trade hits it’s still just 2 bonks, it’s nothing serious, they can recover from that, but healing fracture… ehhh that’s very complicated

[hasty coyote]

I can tell you exactly what causes it to bug, and it bugs incredibly consistently.

Genuinely had a fight where 5 pachies jumped my cera, and only 2 of the 5 rams I saw registered, I killed one, and then they scattered.

[hidden kettle]

Sounds like a serious Problem.
speakin even as a Cera at heart 😄

[viscid mica]

@somber glen wait your losing to dilos as pachy? You practically 2 tap them

A quick charge m2 will knock em over a alt left and then a single left is all you need

There is no reason to lose 1 on 1

[hasty coyote]

Your numbers are off there. Pachy ram deals 125, and the alts deal 55. Dilo can quite literally face tank a pachy unless the pachy runs off during the stun immunity

[viscid mica]

The numbers at what I’m experiencing in game are 2 different things (HS alt and HS left click always)

I’ve never not had a dilo unless in group fight die first combo

[hasty coyote]

I can test in a bit if you want to see

[viscid mica]

If you want

[unreal crystal]

Problem I have with a potential pachy buff is that people want to play it as a carnivore but with all the benefits that comes with being a herbivore (super fast growth % due to mushrooms, faster healing than carnivores, easy to survive as all you need to do is eat plants/grass, no repercussions in case you get injured in a fight because you wont need to fight anything to secure your next meal)
Also why does pachy gets to stay in the sanctuary till almost 50% (around 275kg) .... Omni in comparison gets kicked out around 124kg.
Imo that's a tradeoff where omni gets to punch higher than pachy (carno/cera etc) because it's harder to grow and survive as an omni compared with pachy.
Yes, pachy struggles against carno and I think it's totally justifiable, that's a fight pachy shouldn't win in a 1v1 scenario at all but pachy still dominates his weightclass class quite comfortably and 2 pachys that know what they are doing can be a real problem for a solo carno.... but in 1v1 situations everything bellow 760kg is getting smoked by a good pachy and that's why I don't think pachy needs a buff/time reduction to bonk animation

[steep gazelle]

Pachy is extremely slow for his weight, the least he can do is be good in his class xd

[unreal crystal]

I agree, a fg pachy could feel slow for his weight but sub pachy is a completely different story. In ceras case for example its the opposite,only reaching full speed when full grown

[steep gazelle]

Sub pachy only has 100-300 health. Do you really have problems killing that?

[unreal crystal]

It's not my point, it's just to solidify my argument on how pachy is having a very easy time reaching full grown compared with other carnivores. I understand Pachy being able to hold his ground against fg omnis/dilos/sub cera and carno but it doesn't seem fair for pachy to be able to mess with fg carnos or ceras when (comparatively) growing and surviving on a pachy takes very little effort

[steep gazelle]

Growing is not a point they use to argue about buffs and nerfs, but rather when you are already 100% against others who are 100%

With exceptions like Omni and Troodon juv being able to drain the stam of something 100x bigger with Hordtest's new pounce, but that's not the case with Pachy.

[unreal crystal]

Oh yes you might be right, I guess let's just completely ignore all the reasons I gave as they are completely irrelevant

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[unreal crystal]

Silly of me imagining a different conversation outcome when the person im talking to has #buffpachy in their name...why did I not see that coming

[steep gazelle]

Exactly

[swift beacon]

*75 for alts

[hasty coyote]

Just did a test, and got 63. So I was off, but it’s prob more like 65

[swift beacon]

Not that it changes much in the matchup

[swift beacon]

Sounds like a leg hit

Locational is.. weird

[hasty coyote]

Could have been, but they were hitting me dead in the body. Could have been another pachy hitbox moment

[swift beacon]

Pachy hitboxes are notoriously weird yeah

I am 100% confident on it being 75 damage though

[hasty coyote]

Either way, dilo still face tanks you unless you get head fracture.

[swift beacon]

In my humble, unbiased opinion,

Pachy should do 300 with a fully charged ram, and 100 with the alt-headbutt

[hasty coyote]

That’s way too much

I’d prefer we made the downwards head slam deal like 200-300 to knocked down targets

[tropic horizon]

absurd damage

[swift beacon]

I have fine tuned these numbers for one purpose

[hasty coyote]

That if pachy is being given a damage buff

[hasty coyote]

1-shot headshot Omnis?

[tropic horizon]

I feel like around the 200 range is better, since it still gives a huge chunk of damage without being overbearing

[swift beacon]

If you hit a raptor it should not be walking away

[unreal crystal]

Maybe bc Congenital ?

[hasty coyote]

That’s… the point of fractures

[tropic horizon]

it should be limping away, not just flat out dead

[hasty coyote]

Dilo is larger than pachy, and continual only matters about incoming, not outgoing damage.

[swift beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/swords-flynn-rider-rapunzel-cornered-gif-8743512

[tropic horizon]

also that would mean pachy would be two shotting dilos

to the head at least

[unreal crystal]

Ah mb thought you were trying on omni

[swift beacon]

I fail to see the problem

[tropic horizon]

not even mentioning like, carno, cera, and teno

[hasty coyote]

Ah fair enough, I didn’t specify it was against dilo

[tropic horizon]

teno feels like itd be the worst victim of 300 damage pachy rams, at least in groups.

[hasty coyote]

Especially since teno’s combos deal about 300 total

[tropic horizon]

its just, excessive to me.

I am all for pachy buffs, just don't want it dealing that much

hell, 175 on a downward slam against knocked down targets. that seems fine to me.

against raptor you leave them hobbling away on very low hp, and its a similar story with dilo

[swift beacon]

Consider:
Herrera 1 taps Dilo from hitting its head just below self-fracture distance.
Raptor kills anything smaller than 450 kg with 1 button click that gets no punishment for missing, and can combine its forces to take down animals just shy of 2.7 tonnes, and this is only extended upwards the more they force the target to spend stamina.
Deinosuchus effectively kills up to 4/6 tonnes with 1 click depending on whether they're swimming or just near water.

Pachy killing something that has a 5-6 km/h speed gap in 1 hit when it doesn't have the health to afford many mistakes, especially against larger things, doesn't seem like the end of the world

Especially if it still has no method to stun animals larger than 1 tonne

Plus let's be real, people who play pachy are there for one reason; incredible violence

[tropic horizon]

The dilo thing Im unsure of because I havent really tested damage values but I'll take your word on it being true. But I think you should also consider that 2/3 of these attacks are on ambushes that take quite a bit of setup to accomplish and are reasonable given how many mistakes the player on the receiving end has to make by being hit by them.

Pachy is just, not the same. Against a raptor it can afford several hits as 1 on 1 pachy is a pretty tough barrier to break when it comes to getting a window in to attack it. Meanwhile pachy has to land one alt swing + headshot ram or a headshot alt swing + a body shot ram and then youre done for. Its not really comparable to deino and herrera who you can avoid much better than you can with pachy (although with deino this statement is a bit more questionable I will admit, it doesn't really have a windup either but you can still play around it with map knowledge and the like, though I would want to see it changed.)

sorry that was long, I hope its not like awful to read

[fierce marlin]

#balance-feedback message
Those 2 peoples💪

[swift beacon]

I know a man who puts out longer for less

[tropic horizon]

Oh I complete understand. I am one of those people, I just want my violence to feel more earned and less swift than an instant kill, unless you gave pachy some insane gore effects when it killed something with a headshot.

[swift beacon]

Dw

[tropic horizon]

does he go by hacker

[swift beacon]

No, but I know him as well

[tropic horizon]

okay this second half though I would really like, more gore effects in the future please...

[swift beacon]

It's only an instant kill of you have the breathing room to finish them off, or if they were an idiot and approached the hard-headed lizard head-on

Especially given that ram has a cooldown of like 2 sec or so afaik

Gonna double check smth rq

[tropic horizon]

I mean, its not really that hard to be hit by one. Plus this can be completely circumvented if you were to alt swing them first which even non idiots get hit by pretty often.

[swift beacon]

There's also other things you can do to circumvent how "broken" Pachy is

At least in terms of punchup

For example, did you know that charge does more damage if it knocks you over?

[unreal crystal]

I only gave X vote because I have only seen Carno and Cera stun suggestions but no metions about Trex

[swift beacon]

I imagine it would be possible to implement this into Pachy, letting it reach the 300 damage only if you're bashing something 1 tonne or smaller

[tropic horizon]

I did not, thats pretty sweet

[swift beacon]

In a similar vein Dibble does less if it knocks you over with the running attack, but more with the "thrash" where you maul them

[tropic horizon]

so if a dibble were to for some reason use its running attack on a knocked over creature it would do more damage?

interesting

[swift beacon]

It does more into targets it doesn't knock over

But the thrash does more into targets that are

[tropic horizon]

I wish some of these things were made more apparent in game, I remember reading that damage wasnt even consistent with the damage you dealt at times and it seems theres more stuff like that in theres more stuff like it in game

[swift beacon]

Yeah,,

[tropic horizon]

like the fact that the damage values you are straight up shown on the stat screen isnt even consistent with how much you do is uh, its interesting

[swift beacon]

In practice, numbers are not reliable

[swift beacon]

They are, but they're linked to specific attacks

For most animals it's the "basic" LMB attack, but others have this value tied to a secondary attack using the head

[tropic horizon]

tbf I am running off my old, old memories of me and my friend testing damage on carnos bite attack on cera, teno, and omni i believe and not getting consistent results despite hitting the same part of the body so, I may just be like, wrong since then

it was strange, id have to try it again sometime

[swift beacon]

that would be a factor of locational damage and funky interactions with hitboxes and hurtboxes

[tropic horizon]

thing is we specifically bit on like, the body and then the head since carno was taller it would always hit the same place so it wasnt any funky leg shot stuff so im like, still very confused as to why that happened

[swift beacon]

Shenanigans.

[tropic horizon]

I question to this day whether my brain was working right that day

[swift beacon]

What matters, really, is what you can reliably expect to happen, and give yourself breathing room for an extra hit or two

Back to topic however,

300 full ram on knockdown + 100 headswing, 2 main reasons are kill raptor on headshot and kill raptor in a quick 1-2 combo if it doesn't respect your space and has no backup

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Cannibal rex is going to do the opposite of controlling its population

[fierce marlin]

do you wanna stun t rex?

[steep gazelle]

I understood that too xd

[fierce marlin]

rex kill rex

few rex alive

rex suffer kill other things

[dusky surge]

server full of rex
rex eat rex
rex have full diet
rex grow

VS

server full of rex
rex eat nothing because not cannibal
rex have no diet and no food
rex weak and rex die

a non-cannibal rex would still have to kill other rexes

[fierce marlin]

i didnt said it was on his diet tho

[dusky surge]

food competition would be too fierce to allow other rexes to exist in its space

[fierce marlin]

and the cannibal rex will be weaker at earlier stages

[dusky surge]

as long as it has organs it is

[dusky surge]

but it'll be faster, and able to sniff out and steal the food from corpses

also being cannibalistic inherently means you have your own kind on your diet

[fierce marlin]

didnt said it was faster, said it was fast
because rex is fast at juv stages, thats basic knowledge, speed wont change at all

[fierce marlin]

just means you can eat your own kind without any issues

[dusky surge]

so you just eat rex organs lol

and you get huge nutrition from it

[fierce marlin]

make it give less then

then rex kill rex, then there´s no rex

[dusky surge]

so dont put it on its diet lmao

[fierce marlin]

we know there´s nothing else to control rex

[dusky surge]

and rex will kill rex regardless

because 9.35 tons is difficult to sustain with other 9.35 ton predators

[fierce marlin]

lemme read my suggestion again, wait a sec

[dusky surge]

dont make it cannibalistic

literally it will suffer more for it

[fierce marlin]

1. i never said it has his own kind on diet
2. i didnt said it was faster
3. rex cannibal will make rex kill other rexes, because thats the only thing that can kill a rex

[dusky surge]

rex will kill other rexes cannibal or not

food competition

you're not going to get much food if another rex is in the same space

[fierce marlin]

sometimes is just more worthy to go to another region

[dusky surge]

and risk starvation? kill the other rex, and all the food is yours

[fierce marlin]

then he´s cannibal

[hasty coyote]

starvation

[swift beacon]

Killing another human doesn't make you a cannibal, only if you eat him

[fierce marlin]

thats the point

[swift beacon]

Kill other Rex to keep competition for food low, eat other food that isn't Rex

Better idea would be putting Rex on various carnivores' diets to further encourage population control while they're young

[haughty grotto]

@fierce marlin you seem very confused..
Cannibal literally means it has itself on its diet
That is free food

Also it doesn't seem like you understand what apex means. You want apex to be weak? With bad bleed and regen? Like what

[fierce marlin]

what would kill a rex.-.

[fierce marlin]

didnt said bad

weak at juv stage

[haughty grotto]

Yes you did, multiple times.
In fact you use the word terrible

What are you even saying anymore

[fierce marlin]

for high compensation at late game

[dusky surge]

but hes not, because he cant eat his own kind

[swift beacon]

A healthy, fully adult Rex? Not much right now. But young or weakened Rexes that haven't been eating well bc they have metabolic needs too high to sustain a large enough pack to reliably hunt Trikes at their skill level?

Well

Not to mention that I could see a persistent pack of raptors, Dilos, or even Ceratos posing a non-insignificant threat

[haughty grotto]

Rex will die to trikes, stegos, allo packs and other rexes

But the vast majority of them will die to literally everything during their growing stages

It will need to eat so many meals during the many hours of growth time
Risking its life every time

Can't pack up reliably, can't trust anyone

That's where the difficulty lies

You make it through all that, you better be strong, truly apex level
Idk why you want rex to be weak, that's disrespectful

[worn sentinel]

How would they do the same thing with trike to make sure there isn’t 50 trikes all walking around being unkillable ?

[elfin night]

@fierce marlin

Cannibalism does not control population in The Isle, especially with Rex who is by design immune to larger of its own kind. Basic knowledge

and also some of these changes are absurd and do nothing to control population, but rather make things unfun to play

like trike getting a growth curve where it picks up most of its power when adult and after going through 5-7 hours of +200% diet

also rex as a juvi is meant to be a small game hunter, so it being unable to nourish itself with certain AI (early on, very early on) and small playables is unnecessarily handicapping it, especially when you are making it terrible and giving it terrible regen for its size (why the regen? people dont like to just sit in one spot after getting hit once)

and trike's stomach is so big it still needs to eat entire migrations on its own to max out its diet

[warm flax]

imagine trike have to eat oranges and bananas one by one like stego does right now

[elfin night]

Why would anyone do that lol

I just skip to the next bush, others can have the spoils

[tall cypress]

@stone forum Good idea Also stamina thing can be same as New Cerato RMB

[stone forum]

Yeah perhaps! I don't see any reason why pachy shouldn't be able to build up more force if it's running for longer. Maybe it even gets a little bit faster the longer it runs, but that's just details I guess.
But if pachy gets stunned while attacking, it dies almost every time to something larger, when in reality, that hit would be a VERY crippling thing.

[tall cypress]

"Buff pachy
Increase the level of stuns pachy can throw, so it has a chance against carno and cera. But we don't want it to be too strong, so reduce its leg break chance a little, so we will have less chance of seeing pachy constantly hunting tenonto, of course its damage should increase to balance this. Also, either shorten or remove the time it stuns itself when it headbutts. And buff its speed" this is what i think

Reducing leg break chance is important

Iw this changes causes overbuff its over

If*

[unreal crystal]

I said that before but based on how easy it is to grow and survive on pachy I don't think it deserves a buff.
Giving pachy the ability to stun/fracture whilst running would be OP and unfair for smaller classes like omni for example.

[dusky surge]

Pachy absolutely deserves a buff irregardless of growth rate lmao

Under that metric, hypsi should be kept completely as is because it’s easy

[unreal crystal]

It's not growth rate alone it's survivability aswell

[dusky surge]

It’s got some of the worst in the game tho lol

[unreal crystal]

Comment I posted few hours ago"

"Problem I have with a potential pachy buff is that people want to play it as a carnivore but with all the benefits that comes with being a herbivore (super fast growth % due to mushrooms, faster healing than carnivores, easy to survive as all you need to do is eat plants/grass, no repercussions in case you get injured in a fight because you wont need to fight anything to secure your next meal)
Also why does pachy gets to stay in the sanctuary till almost 50% (around 275kg) .... Omni in comparison gets kicked out around 124kg.
Imo that's a tradeoff where omni gets to punch higher than pachy (carno/cera etc) because it's harder to grow and survive as an omni compared with pachy.
Yes, pachy struggles against carno and I think it's totally justifiable, that's a fight pachy shouldn't win in a 1v1 scenario at all but pachy still dominates his weightclass class quite comfortably and 2 pachys that know what they are doing can be a real problem for a solo carno.... but in 1v1 situations everything bellow 760kg is getting smoked by a good pachy and that's why I don't think pachy needs a buff/time reduction to bonk animation"

[dusky surge]

Poor speed, middling turn rate, clunky primary attack, easily outclassed by mutation builds, poor trot, low damage output, self-stun on ram, ability literally just doesn’t work on inclines

It’s the games worst animal

It’s actually infinitely better as a sub, then loses out on that value

It is the only animal I can think of that is objectively weakened by growing

[unreal crystal]

You have fracture ability for a reason, break legs and run if you wish to do so.... making pachy faster would be unreasonable and deinos not willing to deal with fractures should be able to outrun pachy. Also speed mutation is available for pachy so I don't see a problem there

1v1 you can easily deal with fg omni/dilo sub cera and sub carno.... for fg cera you can just outrun him as you are faster and the only thing you really need to worry about is fg carno

If pachy would receive all these buff I don't know why anyone would even bother playing omni to be honest

[dusky surge]

Because it has an entirely different niche and ability set and playstyle??

An omni can punch up massively with a pack and grappling. A pachy has a total size before it’s literally useless

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy also just dies the moment its spotted by more than one omni, carno or dilo lol

Like, you might as well stop moving and just give up if youre solo

[dusky surge]

^

[dusky surge]

using fractures is a copout imho. It's ALL pachy has, and it's not that great nor consistent. Every fracture attempt against a larger species will be met with immediate reflective punishment. Mess up the fracture, or fracture the wrong part, and you may as well admit death. The "herd up against carno" argument only serves to justify exactly WHY pachy is so bad, because unlike literally every other creature in the game, it cannot survive specific threats without groups.

Hell a single omni can just one-tap a pachy with no counterplay if it gets a backpounce and holds LMB, and the buck just doesn't feel like being lucky

[tropic horizon]

The fact that pachy has to pretty much pray when it gets pounced that bucking will work if no terrain is around is just

Yeah it’s just a testament to how garbage the animal is, and also how awful bucking is as a mechanic

I can’t think of any other playables that relies that much on rng to save its life

[dusky surge]

I hate the "this is easier to grow therefor it should be worse" argument

Hypsi should be fun and viable, regardless of the fact that it's a little rat bastard you can grow in literally less than 10 minutes

[unreal crystal]

Few days ago I was playing pachy and and literally destroyed 3 fg omni solo..ended up killing 2. Must say it was in the jungle but had that been in the plains the outcome would have been much different

[cosmic pelican]

Incredibly skill issue omnis then what can I say

They wouldve won even if they just traded hits

[dusky surge]

That speaks heavily on the ability of the omni players, given all you need is 1 to pounce it to slow it down, then another one will grapple it, fight won

[tropic horizon]

So?We can bring up anecdotal stories as much as we want here and use it to fit our opinions till the end of time.

[dusky surge]

I've also heard of 2 omnis, adult, losing to a beipi. Overall, I just don't like using omni matchups as a basis for balance, because I tend to find omni player bad

[tropic horizon]

The suggestions are being made with the assumption that both parties are equally skilled

[tropic horizon]

I once killed a fully grown pachy as a Beipi like way back when it released lol

[unreal crystal]

Easy to grow and easy to survive... pretty much I can snap my fingers and have a fg pachy. Saying that pachy should be able to mess with Cera and carno it's disingenuous. Might aswell buff carno and cera so they can 1v1 stego at this point

[dusky surge]

It should be able to mess with them, they're core predators

It should not be forced to basically put itself into orange/red health every time these predators rock up

Same way a herrera can kill a dilo

[unreal crystal]

I like when people say " don't bother about stego you can just run away from it" .... well same goes for cera and pachy... pachy can simply walk away or even better jump on a rock etc ez disengage

[dusky surge]

Pachy can't if specific muts are in play

And being able to run the same muts doesn't make it justified, it just forces pachy to do that

[unreal crystal]

You can chose to play on servers that disables speed mutations like Petit or get speed mutations yourself

[dusky surge]

And if you don't do those things, pachy is unviable, well pointed out

As such, it should be addressed

Because pachy suffers more than any other creature

It's a mixpack tool honestly

[unreal crystal]

Pachy is very strong and fun to play as it is in my experience... any buffs would be totally unjustifiable imho

[dusky surge]

Pachy is very weak and frustrating to play in everyone else's

[unreal crystal]

I'm sorry to hear you feel this way

[dusky surge]

It's a pretty shared sentiment lmao

[tropic horizon]

I like pachy, just wish it was better

[dusky surge]

Same

[tropic horizon]

Used to main it for like the very longest time until pounce to pin dropped and then i stopped playing it, that was the final straw for me

[unreal crystal]

Maybe a "change" instead of buff could work where pachy can deal fracture whilst running (so he doesn't get punished easily) but the fracture efficency should be reduced to like 20% of what it is now. Otherwise it would be completely unbalanced even for bigger classes like carno and ceras

[tropic horizon]

I’d be fine with fractures receiving a nerf if the rest of pachy’s kit was buffed. They shouldn’t be gutted but a small change would be fine.

[worthy steeple]

“classes” 😔

[worthy steeple]

yeah i agree, fractures should be nerfed, pachy buffed

[fierce marlin]

I've made things a little unclear and not very specific in my terms, in the beginning he'll be able to sustain himself, but that ability will decline over time very quickly.
About the cannibal, I wanted him to be able to eat members of his own species but not gain much diet from it, he would be forced to do so(because it would be weaker at juvies stages If thats the case)
But i dont Wonder If yall didnt liked the idea

[elfin night]

well

I'm a hater

[haughty grotto]

@kind plume lemme burst your bubble
Allo has a pin and grapple mechanic

[kind plume]

I am totally fine with Grapple being a thing tbh, but pin should NOT be included in allos kit

[haughty grotto]

And there are several ways to balance it, btw.
It's not that fast, and it'll probably have a big stamina cost.

[kind plume]

Allo In real life and legacy was pretty fast, and i honestly expect it to be faster then cera and teno, who would both be pinnable targets

[haughty grotto]

I would certainly not expect that. Would be game breaking if it was faster than smaller targets.

37-39 is the expected speed

[kind plume]

Allo is fast tho, and as far as i know it also has ambush, and pin is just such a no skill insta kill mechanic

[haughty grotto]

It is not fast
And it does not have ambush either

[kind plume]

Does it not ? My bad i guess
One second please

The Real life counterpart could reach speeds of estimated 50 kmph

[haughty grotto]

"No skill" is subjective.
Is it skill to be a stego, hit once with a tail strike for instant kill? Or to oneshot grab as a deino? Or to insta vomit and then keep biting to instantly kill as a cera?
Why pretend that pin is the problem? The game has oneshot mechanics everywhere.

[haughty grotto]

The game doesn't take stats from real life.
Also there's no way to know how fast something actually ran

[dusky surge]

we dont know that for sure

[haughty grotto]

Filipe said it won't launch with ambush but may be added only if allo needs it

[kind plume]

Yea, but most of them are more Balanced, stegos tailswipe is pretty easy to bait and dodge, and deino does (in my opinion at least) not need to be Balanced, since its key Feature is to make drinking scary. Ceras vomit is also not insta kill, since almost all dinos bigger then omni can survive the Initial Animation

[dusky surge]

everything needs to be balanced

[haughty grotto]

So you need to have faith in the fact that allos pin will also be balanced, before making an assumption of a mechanic you haven't seen and imagining a instakill scenario in your head

[kind plume]

Pin however is compleatly unbalanced with the hitbox Bugs, and the speed of omni, i really love allo, dont get me wrong, but pin is not a Feature that is very balanced, fair, or needs skill

[kind plume]

We have seen it tho with omni, yea its a whole different playable, but i kinda expect allo to Also have that fast agile playstyle

[potent fox]

I doubt it’s gonna work exactly like raptor pounce. Troodon while using the same mechanic works entirely different aswell

[haughty grotto]

This man gets it

[elfin night]

Imagine stamina being the main limiting factor for allo pain despite having the same math as omni

So a pair of canni allos can pin you, and then as you get up his buddy pins you again and you die

[kind plume]

Guess we just have to Wait and see how it turns out 🤷‍♂️

[elfin night]

That would show people how fair, fun, interactive, engaging, well balanced, magnificently designed and skillful pinning is

[potent fox]

Je im mostly scared of something like that but then again a dibble or Stego should probably lose if he’s outnumbered

[kind plume]

Peak gameplay experience

[haughty grotto]

I've learned ppl prefer to die instantly with no chance of escape, compared to dying slowly with a possible escape

[potent fox]

Rlly? For me long hunts are the funnest thing about this game

[tall cypress]

Allo needs ambush i think

[potent fox]

No matter if I’m hunter or hunted

[tall cypress]

I mean ambush makes allo allo at legacy so

[kind plume]

Because then they can blame it on the game and not on themselves

[potent fox]

Good point honestly

[haughty grotto]

Yes same.
I'm just saying that ppl complain about pin when it actually involves a lot more risk and effort from the attacker, for example you can't pin if the target is not alone, or if you're low on stamina, etc.

But dying instantly to stego hit or dibble stun with no escape? That's perfectly fine. They'll never complain about those mechanisms

It's ironic that pin is actually not insta kill at all. It takes a lot of time.

[potent fox]

Agreed and most things that are in pin range for a single Omni can avoid them quite well

[tall cypress]

Prob depends on kg

[haughty grotto]

Every single thing has an escape. Either in the form of climbing trees, or water, or flight, or being faster, or being so small that you can just hide.

[kind plume]

I dont really see any issues with pin on omni either, but allo is a whole different Story

[potent fox]

For sure for sure but we don’t know how it’s gonna work yet

[potent fox]

And tbf again most things that seem like they would be in pin range for a single one can prob run from allo

[dusky surge]

if allo gets pin, im guaranteeing that thing is going to be turbonerfed to compensate

[tall cypress]

I don't think Allo will get a pin, it could be a claw attack that will change based on weight.

Same as this picture

[dusky surge]

i mean, that's a para

thats not getting pinned regardless

[tall cypress]

I think Allo will be a dinosaur focused on bleeding because its claws are very suitable for this, although I'm not sure.

[kind plume]

probably and hopefully

[tall cypress]

It may have the ability to directly kill very small dinosaurs, like the ability of a rex, for example under 200 kilos. For those above that, for example, pushing between 200-2500 kilos or a similar ability 2500- no limit pounce. just guessing

[dusky surge]

i mean that much makes sense

[tall cypress]

I mean allo is like Victoria secret :D web will never know until it comes

[dusky surge]

most dinos are like that lol

[tall cypress]

Nah we can gues at all but allo

[dusky surge]

i dont think that's true lol

[elfin night]

Para should be over 6 tons and be capable of soloing an allo 🙏

Also if allo isn’t crazy agile then it might be pretty bad vs stego

[dusky surge]

I can't really see HOW allo will be good against stego unless in a pack

Like I get the jurassic predator meme but like, tf is allo gonna DO

[unreal crystal]

The only thing a solo allo will be able to do against stego is walk away

[dusky surge]

I should hope so lmao

Allo 1v1ing a stego would be uh

Concerning

[unreal crystal]

The only thing I'm worried when I play stego is a pack of good raptors or troodons

[dusky surge]

I mean, rex will likely also be an issue tbf

Trike already is notably concerning. If you think yourself a big man and try to take on a trike, just wait till that trike tanks your powerswings and now runs your exhausted ass down

But trike is evadable by not being dumb and trying to 1v1 a competent trike lmao

[unreal crystal]

Yeah stego can ez disengage trike that's not an issue

[dusky surge]

Rex will be interesting. They balanced trike to avoid it just slaughtering stegos en-masse, so it's pretty clear they are thinking about the issue

I just wonder how that'll apply to rex

[steep gazelle]

Allo won't be as slow as stego. And Pin is the most idiotic and unskilled mechanic in the game, just get close and press the button once and that's it

Pin hitboxes are also extremely huge

[copper lily]

MAKE TENTO LESS OP

[worthy steeple]

MAKE TENTO MORE OP

[golden coral]

What are you fighting it as?

[worthy steeple]

people should really stop calling it “tenon” or “tento” please…

it’s teno, or tenontosaurus GRRRRAAWWRRR

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message teno has one of the smallest hitboxes lmao

[maiden temple]

If it's any smaller we'll have to merge with the opponent

[lilac leaf]

Nooo we don't need two maias! Lol

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message instantly dies to a dibble 🔥

[slim dragon]

People misnaming ptera are so much worse

I've seen it called petra, peta, pteri, pteradactylus, teradon, terranodon, or even terridactyl

[crimson crater]

people misnaming herrera as “herra”

[slim dragon]

diablosaurus

[golden coral]

Dyro is another one I found particularily irritating

[eager saddle]

@hidden tartan Do you mean max damage when the prey is getting low hp? Wouldn't that make it very hard to hunt anything?

[hidden tartan]

Right now all dilos are doing is biting once and running away and spawning clones, if you have a pack nothing can survive for long, making dilo clones do less damage when the prey has more hp would incentivize dilo players to get more bites in.

Im not saying that the max damage starting point should be 25% hp but there should be a nerf to the 85 damage clones that you can spawn after 1 or 2 bites

[eager saddle]

Maybe a change to the amount of bites would be better then? Your suggestion in the feedback is very minimal, it's hard to gather this. It just looks like a massive nerf rn.

[viscid mica]

The damage isn’t the problem

It’s the length and ease of application

[steep gazelle]

@versed sable Definitely not. Leave the spar to the dibble, trike and rex vs Trike and it's just fine like that

[dusky surge]

I can’t imagine any situation where I, as a carno, would ever want to spar anything lmao

[steep gazelle]

Sparring is very buggy and full of problems, why add this to even more creatures?

[steep gazelle]

I can't imagine that either, and even more so with a Teno and Cerato?? Xd

[versed sable]

i had the idea it was going to be somewhat like when utahraptors pin prey, help others in your pack do damage but i could see it being broken

[dusky surge]

wouldn't that make solo play basically near impossible and insanely unfun

because everything in the game can lock you in place and get their pack to finish you

[steep gazelle]

And honestly, there is no way there could be a sparring between these species or cerato Vs cerato

[dusky surge]

i mean, they could do that, idk what you mean by "no way"

giga and spino will also be getting sparring, and its more than likely that rex v rex sparring will exist

[versed sable]

well i thought it would be more suitable for cannibalistic species and predator v prey but i guess we have to wait and see how it works out between rex and trike

[steep gazelle]

Well, Carno uses small horns and tenonto kicks and claws, and the cerato only uses its bite...

What would a ceratos sparring be like? Kisses?

[forest charm]

Probably like pushing or something

[versed sable]

headbutting and wrestling like adult komodo dragons do just off the top of my head

[dusky surge]

in concept art they're shown doing something akin to sparring

also, rex/giga might more than likely be able to spar, so that argument doesn't really work

[versed sable]

i think the arms were used to wrestle other males instead of having to kill each other biting

[dusky surge]

i dont think cerato is using its arms for much

[steep gazelle]

Using concept art is good, but it's not ideal since many of the things that were there will probably never be added, being just something to make that dino more pleasing to the eye.

[versed sable]

just an idea

[steep gazelle]

And Carno really doesn't see how he could have a sparring with Teno, that would completely take away his speed specialty

[dusky surge]

personally i dont think much things besides ceratopsians/apexes SHOULD have sparring, but I also don't agree with the idea that they CAN'T get sparring

they can, it's not like it stops working when a smaller animal is involved, it's just smaller animals don't really need to be sparring all too much

[steep gazelle]

In my opinion, sparring should be something exclusive to the ceratopsians of The Isle

I even think it's really bad that Rex and Trike have a sparring partner, it seems like it takes away some of Trike's ability to defend itself.

[versed sable]

it depends on how the devs implement it for different species it could be more fast paced for carnivore sparring considering rex will be faster then trike atleast in short bursts of speed

[steep gazelle]

I don't disagree but I also don't agree with the sparring of rex and trike, I have a controversy about that

[versed sable]

i am curious how that is going to work if its more then a 1v1

[steep gazelle]

Sparring is good, but it leaves the fight very dependent on luck and not having bugs

[worn sentinel]

And who has a pack

[steep gazelle]

Besides making the fight slow too

[dusky surge]

I think that's the idea

[steep gazelle]

It may be, but it kind of takes away a good player's ability to defend themselves by being stuck in an animation

I'd rather have a more free-form fight where your choices have consequences than just pressing buttons while in an animation and being lucky enough to press them first.

[versed sable]

i should of mention but i had the idea it would be similar to when omni is pounced on prey but it can still fight back

[coarse blaze]

I could be wrong, and I'm not sure if there's a fix but I feel like a lot of hunts happen way too fast. The extended ones I experience just involve camping a cliff or water.

Legacy had awful combat, that's for sure but I do miss the 15 or so minute back and forth fights.

[maiden temple]

Some carnis play for time, my fights against decent raptors are very long but I don't see a good reason for most fights to be made any longer

I think it's down to how people play, carnis beneft from longer fights but not many players seem to have the patience for it

Artificially making the fights longer by adding HP or lowering damage won't make them any more fun

[elfin night]

@true abyss

[viscid mica]

@jovial vessel already fixed in HT

[elfin night]

How is that a balancing suggestion

And why?

[true abyss]

yes ?

[elfin night]

Your idea is so bad💔

And does nothing to solve hotspots

[true abyss]

what one and how ?

[viscid mica]

Ignoring the context and that suggestion would be better suited to #general-feedback

[elfin night]

Other than having a pack of omnis guiding a bomb to a stego

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

genuinely also just not how volcanoes work lol

[elfin night]

Well now they do

[viscid mica]

I’d be down if they had a Balkan eruption event once a blue moon but not consistently

[elfin night]

They bombard the entire island periodically and life still thrives and there’s jungles everywhere

Or a volcano emerges out of nowhere and starts erupting

[viscid mica]

Tbh they should create patches of shallow water to get people to use the islands

[maiden temple]

I'd love some natural disasters but not this way xD

[elfin night]

I would love acid rain

[maiden temple]

Floods, draughts, volcanos and the ash fallout after them etc would be amazing

[viscid mica]

Give us some floods or forest fires but god forbid they happen on a very consistent basis

[maiden temple]

Nooo, random time, random locations only

[viscid mica]

With long cooldowns between

I don’t really want BoB were there is a forest fire every 5 seconds

[maiden temple]

Yes, I want floods so I can slurp random puddles and deino tears

and then draughts where I'm most likely gonna feed them

That would add so much more interaction for deinos tbh

[viscid mica]

Uh…. You do realize a flood would mean they have a extremely increased range of access right?

[maiden temple]

Yeee, they could migrate during floods as well

[elfin night]

Add random meteorite impacts

(+1% chance if you are playing omni)

[viscid mica]

Ya floods would make normally safe water less safe

[maiden temple]

It could create new safe water, ideally one that exhausts if you drink from it but I doubt we'd have that

[viscid mica]

well to be fair there are meteor impacts extremely often the problem is earths atmosphere turns then it’s pebbles

[viscid mica]

Fair fair

[maiden temple]

Getting bonked by a sky rock would be funny

[viscid mica]

Not really

If the rock is big enough to survive the atmosphere and still be sizeable enough to have any real effect it would 1 tap you no matter what you are

[maiden temple]

It would definitely be a mini game my herds would play

[viscid mica]

Hell even the ones that make it through have enough speed to literally blow your brains out if they hit you and we talking pebble sized rocks

[maiden temple]

I'm fine getting 1 tapped to win the 'catch a meteorite' game tbh

[viscid mica]

If the locations are randomized and could happen anywhere that would extremely unenjoyable to just randomly get 1 tapped with 0 responsibility or counter play

[dusky surge]

meteor wouldn't be fun, no matter what

[viscid mica]

Casually walking

Boom dead

12 hour Rex? Boom dead

3 month old Dino

Boom dead

Knowing my luck it’d happen way too much

[maiden temple]

[viscid mica]

It’s funny from a 3rd pov for sure

[maiden temple]

Could hide in some places, like caves or under the biggest trees

[viscid mica]

Ya na trees don’t stop meteors of if they are any bigger than your finger nail

These boys be coming in extremely hot and fast

[maiden temple]

Hmmm okay caves only then

Still a fun addition, with a low enough chance of getting 1tapped

[viscid mica]

Meh I’m down for a meteor shower event that you can look up and go wow but anything hitting the round big naaa from me

Lighting we can work with you can survive lighting with little damage

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message or make it so bacteria won’t affect dinos that already vomited

which is even better solution imo

[elfin night]

they should introduce AI cars and trucks that run over people

[worthy steeple]

this is S tier feedback ^

[viscid mica]

@near basin not balancing feedback + read the lore

[worthy steeple]

another cringe feedback from barion

[viscid mica]

@wispy condor why faster when they can go in land super easily

[viscid mica]

Bro has no idea what this game is

[wispy condor]

wdym

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

[viscid mica]

Why should bary, Sucho and spino be faster in water

[viscid mica]

Ignoring that those are only concepts and not even confirmed atm

[near basin]

how is it not balancing feedback?

also, with the post i'm disregarding lore and more so focusing on the health of ti

[near basin]

do you want to know what's cringe

[viscid mica]

What about the future state of concept art is balancing related?

[worthy steeple]

yeah, this feedback #balance-feedback message

[viscid mica]

I just wanna know how a concept is balancing related

[near basin]

balance doesn't matter if the game is abandoned

[viscid mica]

That….. makes 0 sense and proves my point it’s completely irrelevant to balancing

You wanna rant about how bad of a idea gene spliced creatures are go to #general-feedback at best

[wispy condor]

I didn't mean for them to be faster, just that Deinosuchus had some kind of enemy underwater and not just on land

[near basin]

it's not generally abt gene splicing, it's specifically abt certain humanoids

didn't mean to upset you w that

[viscid mica]

Oh well they will naturally do that, they grow faster were as deino takes at least 3.5 hours just to barely reach 2 tons

Of course a FG deino willl push most except for FG spinos out of the water when they are near

I’d dare say bary will have a very good effect on deino

[viscid mica]

Ok have you ever read or atleast asked for a basic concept of the lore and intention of the game?

[near basin]

deino juvies

[viscid mica]

Destroy the child

[viscid mica]

I’ll explain this to Save you time

The entire idea of the game is horror survival and while the key feature is big Dino awuga they do plan all thou its far and thin to enforce the horror.

If you’ve been playing for awhile you’ll have heard of strains or mutant versions of dinosaurs that are objectively far stronger than their normal counterpart.

We know for 100% fact those WILL be something you can unlock if you grind out certain Dino’s which will add some progression

That creature would be one of those “unlockables” through specific achievements

As I said it’s all related to the game lore if you want to understand it further ask rumple the admin he knows the lore way better than me

[neon willow]

Have we gotten recent confirmation that the devs still plan to introduce strains? I thought it was unclear whether those plans had changed

[viscid mica]

Not recent but it was something they said was gonna happen ages ago

It’s just a matter of time really

[neon willow]

Plans change, though. I know on the subject of gen 1 and mercenaries the devs have shared some information about development on both of them (gen 1 had concept art in a dev blog, and mercenaries/humans are in pretty much every dev blog in some capacity)

I haven't recently heard anything about strains, not even in a vague "sometimes after elders/humans" way

Okay I can't remember if it was gen 1 or the eyeless but still

[viscid mica]

I’m talking strains for Dino’s not the other creatures

And human mercs are confirmed

[neon willow]

I know. I'm saying we have recent indications that mercenaries and eyeless (or gen 1) WILL be added to evrima at some point

[viscid mica]

Oh we do have recent for mercs but not for gen 1s

[neon willow]

In contrast, I haven't heard ANYTHING about whether dino strains are confirmed for evrima

Just what was known from legacy

[viscid mica]

As far as I’m aware that was confirmed ages ago

And nothing contradictory has been said since

[neon willow]

What is the dev blog model/3D concept art of a humanoid monster that I'm thinking of then? The eyeless?

[viscid mica]

That’s ancient

[neon willow]

It's Dev Blog #51. Tapwing's section. He specifies he's working on Gen 1 customization with some pictures

August of 2024 isn't all that ancient

[viscid mica]

@sand garden well I understand the sentiment those mutations have absolutely. Nothing to do with mix packing

[viscid mica]

Time flys so fast I though that was far longer

[sand garden]

It's helping the problem, when they kill something they can just heal to full health and continue their killing spree, herbies never run out of stam and speed mutations are allowing them to catch things they normally wouldnt. It all is tying in together to be fuel the problem.

Mixpackers wouldnt be near as brave if they didnt have certain mutations that kept them from dying when they should have.

[viscid mica]

That’s purely PvP aspects

[sand garden]

It wont ever go away, but certainly dont want to give them even more power.

[viscid mica]

They are mutually exclusive to the actual problem of mixpacking

Mixpackers don’t NEED those mutation to be just as successful

[sand garden]

No they dont, but it isnt helping the problem, because you can never catch them at their weakest moments because of those mutations.

You cant ever stop mix packing, but you CAN stop them from having OP mutations that are helping keeping them alive.

[viscid mica]

And it wouldn’t change it much if at all without them

Just make a suggestion about the mutations

You brought up something completely irrelevant to the point

[sand garden]

It will to a extent, most are trash and cant even fight, thats why they mix packing, so if you level the playing field people can deal with them better.

[viscid mica]

Like people aren’t using the same mutations already?

[sand garden]

Ya, that's why they're broken and shouldnt exist, skill and battle prowless should be on the player, not some broken aah mutations.

[viscid mica]

Ok but why bring up mixpacking?

[sand garden]

I HATE those mutations, but I pick them because the game itself leaves me no choice when EVERYONE else picks them as well and leaves you with a obvious disadvantage.

I brought it up because its obviously one of the biggest problems in the isle besides hacking, and having certain mutations that literally 'help' fuel these problems is just sad.

[viscid mica]

So basically you brought up a completely irrelevant point to earn your post about something else entirely more attention

Mixpacking and mutations being op are completely mutually exclusive

[sand garden]

I'm always bringing up these mutations, in feed back and balance, its the first time I brought up mix packing about it, I dont know why your getting so butt hurt about it lol.

[viscid mica]

Because it’s dis-ingenious

You brought it up to try and garner more attention to the mutation concern when it’s entirely irrelevant

[sand garden]

I dont see how, I'm just saying it could possibly help some with a big issue, because its making it easier, and I'm sure a lot of others can agree to some extent.

[viscid mica]

That’s not how you portrayed it

You clearly wrote it in a manner to make it sound like mutations were the root cause of why mixpacking is so bad

On top of your first reaction attempting to defend that point

[sand garden]

I mean you can take it how ever you want to but the problem still lies that the mutations are broken, they are helping the problem and they need to be either reworked or removed to even the playing field for EVERYONE.

[viscid mica]

So why bring up mix packing?

[sand garden]

Because I wanted to and I hate them.

And seeing those mutations help them also makes me hate them.

[viscid mica]

Uh huh

[sand garden]

All you have to do yourself is ignore it if its not affecting you lol.

Or thumbs it down.

[viscid mica]

Don’t get me wrong I agree the mutations are strong I just find it incredibly dis-ingenious to portray it in such a manner to garner extra attention by using a hot topic from something completely irrelevant

[sand garden]

I mean, people can either thumbs it up or down regardles of the mix packing being thrown in there, ya it garners more attention because I WANT it to because these mutations shouldnt exist to HELP these types of people.

You scream, you fight, ya never give up until something is changed, that's the way I see it.

[viscid mica]

You added it as a “clout chase” that’s it

[viscid mica]

You should go into politics your good at this

[sand garden]

Everyone hates mix packers, and if getting rid of those mutations to cripple them somewhat I'll do whatever it takes to see them gone.

[viscid mica]

But it wouldn’t we both know that

[sand garden]

It wont, but I want to see them crippled and not being hand held, I want to slaughter them with my own brain power and wits, not some broken aah mutations.

[viscid mica]

Stop that

Don’t do that

You don’t like the mutations and that’s why you want it gone

You can’t BS a BSer

[sand garden]

🫵 You can stop responding right now, I do hate the mutations and I hate mix packers as well. I hate seeing 12+ players sitting around in a bird bath simulator for several hours.

[viscid mica]

But those are mutually exclusive

[sand garden]

I refuse to go to 100+ rules that only benefit the admins and their friends just to get to play this game.

[viscid mica]

[sand garden]

I remember before those mutations how easy it was to slaughter mix packers because they couldnt fight, but now they just run to a corpse and eat to full health or just run away because of the stam benefit from damage. Its silly its all silly.

[viscid mica]

Its never been easy plus things like dibble didn’t exist back then

[sand garden]

Unless ya cant fight it wasnt easy...But me and my pals slaughtered them like nothing. Even now most dibble players are terrible so its easy, its just those bloody mutations are ruining it all.

[viscid mica]

It’s not but pop off

You should go into politics your good at this

[sand garden]

Lol can you not fight? If so that's fine, because most people on this game cant.

[viscid mica]

It’s not the mutations

Fighting is what ever I rarely play in large enough groups to challenge that thou

I’m like solo to trio at most 90% of the time

[sand garden]

The mutations help, it helps people who are fairly good at the game to destroy others, and its helping people who are terrible to exist, Its playing a huge part ya.

I dont like seeing masses of people going around killing everyone either, even tho thats all there is to do on the game right now, its still not a pretty sight.

[viscid mica]

[sand garden]

And if I can just eat none stop and gain all my health back? Eating a lil rocks here and there to help, then going off to slaughter the entire server with my pals? Ya its a bit of a problem. Especially in certain instances were I knew I should be dead or healing for a long while after doing something silly, just to go ''eh, I'll go eat all those off and no bad repercussions will happen to me!''

[elfin night]

dont think that would solve mixpacking

but they are still a problem that should be addressed (removed)

[sand garden]

It wont ever solve it, but it'll help with it even in the slightest by not giving them a edge along with shir numbers.

Mix packing has plague this game from the very start, but they were easily dealt with by being better then them, but these mutations are literally HELPING the issue even further.

[neon willow]

Those mutations are definitely broken, and it's not an unpopular sentiment to get rid of them. But, they don't affect a mixpack group more than an over pack group or just a normal group. They won't fix mix packing because they aren't the cause and they don't amplify mixpack power more than they amplify other group's power. Mixpacks are bad because they allow dinosaurs that are intentionally designed with weaknesses to cover their weaknesses by pairing with another dinosaur that doesn't have that weakness. Getting rid of the meta mutations doesn't change that. Meta mutations still SHOULD be removed on their own merit - ignoring mix packing entirely, they're STILL broken because they ameliorate important weaknesses that dinosaurs have (such as being too slow to catch something faster, or taking a long time to heal)

But that is an entirely separate issue to mix packing, although the end result is similar - weaknesses are reduced or covered

[sand garden]

That is true, but if the players are trash they'll just be trash regardless of what class they play and if they bundle up, its just these mutations are literally giving them even more advantages, I keeping saying this, it WONT solve the problem, it'll HELP by evening the playing field for EVERYONE across the board, people will be either good or bad at the game regardless.

[neon willow]

My point though is if a mixpack takes gastro, and me and my 3 cera buddies ALSO take gastro, the fact that the mix pack has gastro doesn't give them any advantage that we don't also have. The playing field is already even in terms of mutations. The uneven playing field occurs when they bundle up. Removing the mutations won't even the playing field because by definition mix packers play at an advantage by combining dinos that cover for others weaknesses.

Mutations like gastro are only an advantage when your group has it and the other group doesn't. The problem that they cause is therefore a meta where you HAVE to take those mutations or you are at a disadvantage, which is why they should be removed. But that is a completely separate problem than the issue of mix packing, because again - you can just take the same mutations as the mixpack and then everything is an even playing field again

Or at least, as even as you'll get given mix packing itself inherently creates an uneven playing field

[sand garden]

Mix packing isnt always so much the problem because why do you think they mix pack? They suck and cant fight, for as long as this game has exist mix packing can easily be dealt with by overpacking yourself and dealing with them, but these mutations are tying into the problem, remove those, and mix packers can easily be dealt with by skill alone until a better solution comes along for them, I'm just saying these mutations are fueling and helping the problem, even if everyone picks them to deal with said mix packing by either doing so yourself or over packing.

[sand garden]

@tardy wind Then the Devs need to tweak the stam across the board with the herbivores, but running out of stam is part of survival in my eyes, no creature should be able to fight forever with no consequences, ya it sucks to get teamed up on by either herbies or carnies alike, but thats just part of the game sadly, and I dont see why anyone should get a advantage over something that just comes with the territory of the game.

[tardy wind]

Oh I absolutely agree, there is a purpose to it. But it’s also not even across the board either. Take Teno. It can defend itself fairly well without stamina, since it has an insanely fast and pretty high damage claw alt to use. And Diablo/Trike have very high damage base attacks, as well as their Alts. I get there is a purpose to running out of stamina, but it’s incredibly unfair for certain animals and only slightly hindering for others

If it was consistent across the board, I’d feel a bit differently. But in Stego v Trike, one has to use every ounce of stam to fight while the other just has to use running stam a little bit.

[sand garden]

Stego/Trike is deadly throughout its growth stage AND grows pretty fast, they are majority of the time always in herds, them having somewhat poor stamina to counter balance them makes sense to me honestly.

[dusky surge]

they aren't mercs but yes they are planned

[viscid mica]

Humannnn happy now!?

[keen plover]

I wouldn't say trike grows fast. At least not anymore.

[dusky surge]

agreed, stego melts its own stam and is incredibly hard reliant on tactile to exist

in the case of maia, it can just not fight and focus on fleeing, where it is remarkably stam efficient, although i do somewhat agree the shove is too costly

i haven't played much adult trike to speak on its combat, but i have watched several of them get obliterated by like a couple of ceras or raptors so i'm thinking they aren't great

[sand garden]

But it still packs on the weight relatively fast does it not?

[keen plover]

That was also changed

[sand garden]

Good, I like when apexes get kicked in the teeth with nerfs, now if only they'd do the same more with cerato.

[dusky surge]

eh, not a huge fan of how they handled it personally

because rex won't have it half as hard

honestly trike in general just seems... bad? Like it really ain't doing it for me as an "apex"

[sand garden]

I dont know why they'd touch Trike now of all times when Rex is right around the corner, but if Rex gets some nerfs as well I wont complain lol.

[dusky surge]

to me it's a larger dibble with even more of the flaws that already made dibble bad

[keen plover]

I like the speed. Personally think it should be more agile (not while running) and hit a bit harder for what it is. Like imo Ceratopsians should turn in place really well

[dusky surge]

agreed

poor moving turns, decent standing turns

if it could turn better while standing, it would aleviate A LOT of its core flaws

[keen plover]

also their attack needs to be faster

[dusky surge]

either that, or make every one of these attacks hit like a nuke

which also works for me given, y'know, trike

but its base damage output just kinda... doesn't really feel impactful like at all to me

[keen plover]

Agreed lol. I've several ceratos survive knockdowns

Meanwhile Stego straight up kills them several times over

[dusky surge]

i think it's fine stego does more damage, but trike doesn't even do half of stego's

and stego has like, infinitely better flank defense

[keen plover]

Oh I agree dw. I just think it's a funny contrast

[dusky surge]

i think you should really want to avoid trike's business end, and being caught in front of a trike should mean a pretty horrible death for most creatures that aren't BIG

[keen plover]

Yeah. Especially for that grow time...

[dusky surge]

like genuinely just grow a stego

without rex around, you are still by far the most capable of defending yourself from every possible carnivore in combat

[keen plover]

[tardy wind]

Yeah that’s why Maia is a bit more tricky, because it does have the ability to run from ceras. Struggles a lot more than I think it should with packs of carnos and dilos though

[tardy wind]

Yeah neither have I, seen plenty of videos though and so far the majority of the trike players seems pretty horrendous 😂

[swift beacon]

Imo Trike should probably be doing same as Stego jab with its alt attack and running flip, 750 with its basic and stationary flip, 1000 with the spar attack, and 625/1250 for thrash based on knockdown state

[keen plover]

[dusky surge]

Agreed. Feels like they really lowballed its numbers out of fear of its knockdown potential, but it really needs it due to its sheer vulnerability to any flank

[swift beacon]

Like a big part of it is just attack rate

[dusky surge]

honestly, i'm FINE with it attacking slow, but it needs to really feel that oomph

for me, trike should be defined by big, brutal hits, not quicker hits

[swift beacon]

That's a valid interpretation

In general, facetanking a Trike should be a bad idea

[dusky surge]

dibble having a faster attack rate befits it imho, but trike should deal DAMAGE

[swift beacon]

Whether that's because Trike quickly mulches what's in front of it with many decent-strength attacks, or because its slower end attacks do a truly astronomical level of damage isn't too relevant to me so long as it doesn't feel like you're hitting too weakly

Though I'm also in camp "I think it would be funny and fair if Stego 1-shot Allo"

[dusky surge]

i mean, agreed

also it's pretty difficult to make it not possible for stego to do that

hit the head and allo go pfft

[swift beacon]

I mean ig going off current numbers it already does from that pov

1800 on swing × 1.5x headshot is 2700

And running swing iirc is 2250 which puts headshot at 3375?

[dusky surge]

yup

[swift beacon]

So yeah uh we got ourselves paleo accurate Morrison Moment

[dusky surge]

also powerswing does knockdowns

so even if allo gets hit and lives, it can get comboed lol

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message it’s getting buffs to aid it in hunting better, just not that lol

[rapid flume]

I do wonder how they'll address troodon pinning it, or if it will still not be really able to hunt troodon

[crimson crater]

even if it can’t it’ll probably still get melted seeing as troodon can kill things 3x their size fairly easily

[signal hearth]

Truedon xD

[elfin night]

@open flicker ptera is getting a rework. We don’t know what it’s getting so asking for buffs is a bit meaningless

[signal hearth]

#balance-feedback message
This could end up becoming partially obsolete when Hypsi gets the ability to latch on walls and such, though I feel like it should still be possible to spit while running- maybe not directly over the shoulder unless Hypsi has an owl's neck rotation range, but you should at least be able to spit while running sideways without being stopped in your tracks.

[potent fox]

Agreed. Some might be worried it’s too easy to annoy people with hypsi then but I honestly think people only play hypsi to annoy people bc it rlly doesnt have anything else going on rn.

[open flicker]

do we know when its coming?

[elfin night]

This HT

[open flicker]

so it should drop on next update to the game?

[signal hearth]

I think the main point of Hypsi should be to harass mixpackers and bound away laughing 🤣

[viscid mica]

@coarse blaze Galli with bleed is op

Fastest Dino by default with only 1 real counter? Could legit wipe the roaster. Just by following and keeping the bleed going

Uncatchable bleeder lmao

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message dibble is quite loud tbh, but i agree with the stego

[viscid mica]

I mean compared to dilo and troo thou….

[worthy steeple]

yeah dibble is super loud D:

dilo is just wild tbh, they're trying to balance op dino with loudest footsteps LOL

in case of troodon its just super small and hard to see, so giving it loud footsteps is actually a good thing

especially with the new grass, you really only use your hearing, especially when its night and you cant see well

[coarse blaze]

Galli's kicks take a decent bit of stamina and genuinely hitting them more than once is enough to get them to leave you alone. You're not bleeding out from 3-4 kicks. Galli doesn't have a lot of health.

[worthy steeple]

i'd say galli should have its bleed back, but significantly nerfed

[cosmic pelican]

The new grass that only loads 2 meters infront of you 😭

[worthy steeple]

omg not the word "troodon" summoning potato

[coarse blaze]

That's why I mentioned that it doesn't have to be what it was, but having none if absurd

[worthy steeple]

ITS WIP GRR!!! 😭

[viscid mica]

You trot faster than half of the roaster can run

[coarse blaze]

And?

Again, hit it once or twice, it'll stop.

It has 400 something health, one charge bite would basically kill a Galli.

[cosmic pelican]

Also this 😭 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401481371249541120/1371437249610383461/2025-05-12_12-37-05.mp4?ex=6825c4f8&is=68247378&hm=034bd595dbcfaa9e2c1585254208804beda7b5c05259d0a42f8f986f7630a93a&

[viscid mica]

And you can hit trot away hit repeat until they eventually bleed out it’s OP AS ALL HELL

[worthy steeple]

https://youtube.com/shorts/JfGXtONbKtE?si=A-KAjc2Py_G6nMzL

[viscid mica]

Only way galli with bleed isn’t op is to nuke the speed

[worthy steeple]

the lawn mower niche

[dusky surge]

i think you're overselling it

[coarse blaze]

You're glossing over the "hit it twice or thrice and it'll die before you bleed out" thing

A charge would also almost kill a Galli, basically almost anything on the roster will kill a Galli before you bleed out.

If you decide to run from a Galli and continue to bleed out quickly, that's entirely your fault.

If you genuinely can't land two hits on the Galli that's also on you

[viscid mica]

Ya because your gonna catch gallis

That’s a weak arguement with how fast galli is

[coarse blaze]

I hate to break it to you, but in order to kick you

It needs to run up to you

Meaning you could hit it then, when it kicks you

[viscid mica]

I’d think dilo capacity with half as good of a turn is enough of a example to how op it could be

[coarse blaze]

God forbid there's two things that can chase a Dilo down

At night a Dilo needs to bite it once, and Dilo bites cause bleed which isn't great for the thing that needs to run away.

[viscid mica]

God forbid galli can bleed out the entire roaster solo with little consequence and minimal skill required

[coarse blaze]

Except you can kill it if you can aim

The declawed Emu makes way more sense, you're so right but Cera and Dilo cause pretty nasty bleed on top of DMG.

[viscid mica]

I’d love to see a clip of you easily hitting a competent galli as anything other than omni

[coarse blaze]

I'm sure you would, that's very specific and shockingly not many play Galli since it's nerf.

[viscid mica]

Any galli that actually knows spacing which 90% of galli mains don’t thus they die to omnis a lot can evade the entire roaster and get hits with ease

[coarse blaze]

Gallis weren't shredding the roster before, a few people did die to them, I died to them but it wasn't like it was some gamebreaking plague.

[viscid mica]

Ya because they are stupid and swear they should always win against omnis

The one thing that counters them

[coarse blaze]

Again, more than half the roster will 1-2 shot a Galli

[viscid mica]

And galli easily Jukes more than 90% of the roaster with minimal effort

[coarse blaze]

I've yet to really see that more than maybe 3 times

[viscid mica]

If you think for a second that galli with bleed won’t immediately summon a ton of sweaty trolls your insane

[coarse blaze]

Anyone can be God at any playable, the minority shouldn't dictate balance.

Omni can solo most things and so can Cera by that logic, might as well nerf those too since some people can take on genuinely anything with those playables.

[coarse blaze]

Except it had bleed previously and even then you didn't see that situation very often.

[viscid mica]

What???? You saw it ALL THE TIME

[coarse blaze]

It wasn't an issue, if it were and people were constantly getting slaughtered by Gallis they would have been nerfed ages ago on Spiro.

[viscid mica]

It really was

[coarse blaze]

It really wasn't

A handful of people isn't all the time

[viscid mica]

That’s why it was removed

[coarse blaze]

When Dondi started doing balancing changes and only then

[viscid mica]

It was happening on a extremely consistent basis

Gallis were bleeding out everything in the game

[viscid mica]

That’s a weak reason

[coarse blaze]

Is it though? No one else thought it needed nerfed until then?

[viscid mica]

No one else? Brother what

there was A TON of complaints

[coarse blaze]

That vast majority don't seem to think it was an issue and think it should have bleed to an extent is all I'm getting at

Which says something

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback message "Make troodon a scavenger, as it should be." 😭

[dusky surge]

i want ptera scav so bad

[coarse blaze]

Troodon has the most potential to be a big game hunter, my mind cannot be changed.

[dusky surge]

a flock of these lil vulture bastards swarming random meals

[coarse blaze]

Vulture niche

It'd offer a really nice playstyle I think, nomadic scav

[viscid mica]

The vast majority did

[cosmic pelican]

Ptera as a scavenger makes sense, it cant hunt for the life of it. But TROODON???

[viscid mica]

Bro most content creators who played during that time said it was awful

[coarse blaze]

Agree to disagree

[viscid mica]

Uh huh

I’m glad they said they’ll never bring the bleed back

[dusky surge]

using the turbobleed galli to justify why galli shouldn't get a little bleed is bizarre

[coarse blaze]

Nu uh

[viscid mica]

That would be 100x more agonizing than unpinnable galli

[coarse blaze]

I'm just saying, if you can't hit it twice before you bleed out in the matter of 10 minutes, it's on you.

I'm sorry some players are really good, it happens but that's never the majority.

[viscid mica]

What’s the difference the only problem is gallis mobility that would make it op

[coarse blaze]

I'm just not sure why you'd try running, to chase it? To run away?

Sit by something and just bite it when it runs at you.

It has to be in bite range to kick you anyway

A cera biting it would likely do far more bleed than that single kick if it were brought back with even a little.

[worthy steeple]

they did?

[viscid mica]

Wait for em to sit or leave

It’s a galli it can graze

The only problem I have with galli is the insane troll capacity bleed would give it

You’d make it impossible to avoid never have good blood and basically just get harassed until you inevitably rage quit offline if not die

Galli is too fast and too agile for bleed to be ok on it

[coarse blaze]

I don't think you're right, my mind won't change. I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong. Agree to disagree, this isn't progressing and thank you for your feedback.

[viscid mica]

Average galli main galli must be op take

[coarse blaze]

I actually main Troodon, having an opinion on a playable you disagree with doesn't always mean that that must be their main. Very closed minded, but good ragebait for sure.

[viscid mica]

I find that hard to believe

You ignore every comment I’ve made

Ignored the speed and agility issues

Ignored the troll potential

[dusky surge]

your argument relies on a very outdated galli that everyone agrees is too strong lol

[viscid mica]

You’ve just ignored everything I’ve brought up

[dusky surge]

a small amount of bleed isn't making galli god amongst mortals

[coarse blaze]

It's almost like I said that it doesn't have to be like before

[viscid mica]

Even current galli it’s faster than everything except a charging carno it’s more agile than everything except the tiniest of tiny and omni

Even a lil bleed

Has huge troll potential

You could bleed anyone to death if you are patient enough

[coarse blaze]

Again, making decisions on a minority isn't healthy for the playerbase.

[viscid mica]

It won’t remain a minority for long

[dusky surge]

hypsi has huge troll potential lmao

[viscid mica]

Every mix pack will have gallis every troll will switch to galli people will play galli just to wipe groups by bleeding them out

Gallis do not take long to grow and with bleed that is a massive boost to they’re already very annoying harassment value

[viscid mica]

Hypsi can’t bleed you to death

[coarse blaze]

But it can blind you and graze constantly to keep doing it

[dusky surge]

if a galli bleeds you to death, i'mma be real, round of applause

if the bleed is moderate, that's indicative of a dedicated and skilled galli

[coarse blaze]

Has great agility and it gets lost in the grass, mixpackers will use it and it doesn't take long to grow. Better nerf Hypsi just to be safe.

[dusky surge]

it's no less unfair than being bled by a raptor

[viscid mica]

It really just stalk hit once every now and then and go until they die

Trolls ain’t afraid of time dumps

[dusky surge]

so... like how many bleeders do it

[viscid mica]

How many bleeders are the fastest in the roaster?

It’s the same reason PT doesn’t have bleed

[coarse blaze]

No it's not, PT flies

And most things can't attack upwards

[dusky surge]

raptor is literally one of the game's most mobile animals, with insane agility and speed

[viscid mica]

And galli runs significantly faster than 99% of the roaster

[viscid mica]

It’s slower than a dilo….

[dusky surge]

so?

[viscid mica]

And dilo is slower than galli

[coarse blaze]

What has better turn than Omni actually? Genuinely curious.

[elfin night]

galli should bleed things for harass potential

[coarse blaze]

I feel like Troos is pretty same-y

[dusky surge]

it's also more agile by a dilo, by a significant margin, and dilo is more agile than a galli

[viscid mica]

And galli has nearly omni equivalent agility

[crimson crater]

dryo

[coarse blaze]

I almost mentioned Dryo but wasn't sure enough

[viscid mica]

Troo too

[coarse blaze]

No it's not, Gallis turn is way wider

[viscid mica]

It’s really not that big of a difference

[coarse blaze]

It really is

[viscid mica]

Galli almost trots omnis run

[elfin night]

incorrect, it is faster than 15/17 in the roster without counting itself. Faster than less than 95%

[coarse blaze]

Okay? That has nothing to do with the turn.

[elfin night]

gallis turn super slowly

[viscid mica]

What are the 2?

[elfin night]

you can avoid them very easily

[viscid mica]

It’s faster than carno if carno isn’t charging

[elfin night]

ptera and carno

[viscid mica]

False it’s faster than carno if you don’t count charge

And PT doesn’t run

[elfin night]

but carno has a charge so I will count it

[elfin night]

git gud

[viscid mica]

That’s a unfair argument but ok

[elfin night]

it's not because it is part of carno's kit

[viscid mica]

We can just use agility argument sense galli is dam near as nimble as omni if only slightly worse

[coarse blaze]

Except it's not, go play Galli

[viscid mica]

I did less than 48 hours ago in fact

[viscid mica]

I played troo, Herrera, PT and galli

¯_(ツ)_/¯

If they ever give it its bleed you’ll see I’m right pretty quick

When mix pack #5672 starts having multiple galli just constantly tapping you for bleed or troll #372 stalks you for your entire play session just constantly applying bleed

You severely underestimate the level of petty some players can be with these things

Even the current galli players will stalk you for ages just to constantly kick you and try and get you to chase them no matter what you are

[dusky surge]

pachy

you want trolling potential? pachy

[viscid mica]

What about it

[viscid mica]

Is pachy was 8 km faster and bone breaks were consistent? Sure

[dusky surge]

i think balancing around "trolling potential" just rips away lots of animals unique mechanics because they're too easy to troll with

which is boring

[viscid mica]

If it’s easy to troll it means it’s easy to PvP which means it’s too strong

Like dilo and cera rn that are both over tuned

[dusky surge]

i think galli having bleed is fine, and it's ridiculous that every other animal that logically should do bleed does it, except galli for some reason

[viscid mica]

Give galli more damage I can work with that

But bleed is just a whole other monster entirely for something that fast

Like a skilled carno can bleed a Maia with ease

Imagine that but more agile and always at top speed

Might not destroy medium sized + but all things teno and below would get destroyed

[crimson crater]

practically impossible

[elfin night]

well then you are blind

[viscid mica]

Well all except omni

[crimson crater]

carno has subpar bleed damage

[dusky surge]

if a carno does that, round of applause lol

[elfin night]

because galli is by no means any close to omni in terms of agility

[viscid mica]

When your opponent is running constantly that bleed stacks

[dusky surge]

if a maia allows itself to be bled out by a carno, that's on the maia, it's not the carno's fault for having bleed

[viscid mica]

The only reason omni is safe is pin

If omni pin didn’t work gallis would ram ranch them

[elfin night]

nah

omni wins no diff

[crimson crater]

a staggering 0.5% at most, you’d have to run 10 marathons for it to even be slightly impacted

[coarse blaze]

Except Omni can turn far tighter than Galli, the same thing it does with Dilo

[steep gazelle]

Omni only needs a damage pounce to kill a Galli, no Pin needed

[viscid mica]

It’s the consistency of the bleed

[viscid mica]

Your assuming they could hit it on one they can’t front pounce

1-1 I don’t see omni winning at all

You’d need to be a very good omni

[steep gazelle]

Yes. Omni has agility, use that and you will certainly occasionally land a pounce

[viscid mica]

I tested this omni no pounce loses to galli

[viscid mica]

The agility difference isn’t big enough like for dilo or pachy (which funny enough you can basically front pin)

[cosmic pelican]

What even is this

[viscid mica]

A fact

[cosmic pelican]

Forget the bleed, how is a maia gonna lose to 1 carno

[viscid mica]

Well current main branch Maia

Not HT Maia HT Maia got that

[cosmic pelican]

Show me 🙏

[worthy steeple]

even main branch maia doesnt lose that fight imo..

[viscid mica]

I don’t record gameplay so like…. I’ll try

[cosmic pelican]

I know I can beat 2 carnos comfortably, 3 is where it gets dicy

[viscid mica]

Well more often than not but I’ve done it and seen it a good few times

[steep gazelle]

The difference isn't that big, but there's still a difference. And a lot of the time Omni can land a pounce even from the front, so that would make the fight between them fairer

[cosmic pelican]

But its never because of the bleed

[worthy steeple]

that sounds more like true

[viscid mica]

Mmm I dunno when you get drive by’d it’s kinda hard for something as fast as galli

[cosmic pelican]

The fight would need to be 30+ mins, and the maia would need to be continously bleeding for the carnos to even have a CHANCE at bleeding it out

[viscid mica]

Well ya that’s a long wait but they’ll at least be 40% range or lower

If the Maia is non stop running after you thou….

[steep gazelle]

Omni literally needs just one pounce of damage and less than half the stam to kill a Galli, it's not much of a Pin but it's fairer for the Gallis

[viscid mica]

If you can hit it sure

[steep gazelle]

Obvious

It's better this way than pressing a button and waiting for it to die.

[viscid mica]

Like as galli I can usually reasonably take a dilo and win yes it’s a hard as hell fight but as of rn it’s totally feasible

I can’t imagine how much easier it would be with bleed

[viscid mica]

Meh 1 thing you have to avoid isn’t world ending

[steep gazelle]

Avoidance is different from not existing in the same place as that thing

[viscid mica]

Herrera for Kentro, most of the small things for anky, dibble for Rex

Need I go on?

Everything will have something at some point that is a direct counter and should be avoided lest you die

There is NOTHING wrong with that

Sorry 1-1

It gets abit dicey when we account for numbers

[steep gazelle]

Dude, there's a huge difference in weight between Dibble and Rex, but Galli should be the same weight or bigger than Omni

Dying so easily with just 1 single click for something that weighs so little more than you is disgusting

[viscid mica]

Deino spino, acro anky, carno allo.

[steep gazelle]

Pin is the most horrible and crappy mechanic in the game

[viscid mica]

Why MUST you be able to go near omni?

[steep gazelle]

That's the point. Without it, everything would be fairer between the two, the fight would depend on actually fighting and interacting.

[viscid mica]

Why must they fight?

[steep gazelle]

Why not???

[viscid mica]

Because galli is faster

Galli can just LEAVE

[warm cloak]

2 30% omnis pin galli

[viscid mica]

?

[steep gazelle]

?

[warm cloak]

Felt a lil unfair

[viscid mica]

At what weight are they ?

[crimson crater]

why MUST omni have a mechanic that is a death warrant for anything touched by it?

[viscid mica]

That math ain’t mathing

[viscid mica]

Never said it must

Just said why shouldn’t it

[warm cloak]

Like 150-200

[viscid mica]

Unless that galli wasn’t FG or under 20% stam that shouldn’t be possible

[steep gazelle]

Being faster doesn't mean you should never exist in the same place as that, it just means that what is slow should be stronger, but with Galli and Omni and the Pin mechanics there is already a chasm between the two

[viscid mica]

Exactly and without pin omni isn’t stronger than galli

[crimson crater]

“why not” dosen’t justify a lazily designed mechanic

[warm cloak]

He was idk 80% maybe then

[viscid mica]

Because it’s stats without it aren’t strong enough to win against some of em

[viscid mica]

That sounds closer to right

[crimson crater]

can’t there be a middle ground then

[viscid mica]

I’d say it’s at the middle

[crimson crater]

i ain’t suggesting for the pin mechanic to be completely removed but it could work better.

[steep gazelle]

He is, it just depends on whether he can land the pounce or not. If a bad Omni goes against a good Galli, he's dead, but if a good Omni goes against a good Galli, the Galli is dead

[viscid mica]

Na

Galli diff is 70/30 no pin

Same skill galli wins majority of time

[crimson crater]

i’m not sure how a 100-0 matchup in the omnis favor is the middle ground lol

[warm cloak]

We both used almost full stam he went off and we needed 1 hit

[steep gazelle]

It's better to be like this than just a fight that makes Omni something don't even need to use her brain

[viscid mica]

Galli has higher damage and is fast enough to evade reverse pounces

[worthy steeple]

even if omni couldnt pin galli it would still kill it with just one pounce since theres nothing galli can do in that situation

i should probably mention how much i hate the pounce

[viscid mica]

No pin galli deletes yes pin omni wins BUT galli can just leave and not engage

[viscid mica]

Most do

Hate pounce

[steep gazelle]

That's what I mean. Removing Omni's ability to pin Galli wouldn't make the fight unfair for Omni, but it wouldn't make it entirely in Galli's favor either, just fairer between the two

[crimson crater]

like i said i’m not advocating to butcher it completely but the pin mechanic shouldn’t be instant death

[viscid mica]

Like a struggle mechanic

[worthy steeple]

i guess thats what devs mean by "isle is survival game" omni pinning galli is justified, because galli can simply run away and not engage

[viscid mica]

Exactly

That’s my main arguing point when it comes to Omni pin it just comes down to the fact that you don’t have to fight. This is not a death match

[worthy steeple]

i think it shouldnt work this way, its the same thing with the dilo, yeah we will give it one shot mechainc, but balance it with loud footsteps so you can hear it and hide!! wow so much fun so cool thank you devs

i honestly hate that balancing

[viscid mica]

Dilo venom is kinda over tune though

[worthy steeple]

well thats the point

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mind a struggle mechanic for pin if it’s only really effective for things roughly its size and had no effect on grapple

[steep gazelle]

The pin mechanic needs a rework in general, and this will be even more noticeable to the community when Allo launches

[worthy steeple]

its been what, 8 months since they buffed clones?

[viscid mica]

If allo pin is like omnis where it can be just a minor difference in weight that is a huge problem due to allo size

[steep gazelle]

I'm 99.99% sure he will, since he has a pounce

[viscid mica]

My secondary reason for omni is that it’s so small that it doesn’t matter enough for me to consider it a concern everything it’s pinning is the same or shorter grow than it Gallis grow should be adjusted accordingly

[viscid mica]

That would be rough

I would hope it would follow deino rules at that size

[steep gazelle]

Pin in my opinion should be a mechanic like Deino's grapple

Where you can only Pin things less than half their own weight

[worthy steeple]

hmm but imagine how goofy that would look like

[viscid mica]

For anything above 1T sure

Omni is just so small I don’t see the problem

[worthy steeple]

imagine fg omni pouncing 226kg teno

instead of pinning

[steep gazelle]

Yeah, it would be a bit visually ugly indeed

[worthy steeple]

IMO if we make omni smaller we can somewhat fix the pin problem

375kg omni gang

[viscid mica]

Make it smaller than omni survivability plummets

Galli will unironically delete omnis

[worthy steeple]

good👹

[steep gazelle]

The weight of the Omni is fine, the Pin which is completely grotesque and poorly balanced

[viscid mica]

I mean everything smaller does or will have counter play and ways to avoid omni so like I just don’t see the issue

[cosmic pelican]

375kg omni can still pin galli, so not really

[crimson crater]

that mechanic goes against the premise, it takes away the stakes to guarantee omnis the win, feels cheap knowing that the “hard core survival game” is playing the game for you

[viscid mica]

[cosmic pelican]

Galli, omni, troodon and hypsi have pin vulnerability

[viscid mica]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worthy steeple]

well then what should we do with fg omni pouncing small targets, pounce would look super ugly, pin is the only way

[viscid mica]

Galli out runs, troo literally vanishes into grass, hypsi can do the same as troo plus will climb trees

[worthy steeple]

imo decreasing weight is the only way to make it less ugly and also little more balanced

also making omnis model smaller

[cosmic pelican]

How is that relevant to what I said

[steep gazelle]

Well, maybe not half the weight, but also not just 1kg less would make it fairer

[cosmic pelican]

375kg omni still pins a galli, thats it

[crimson crater]

the model is already pretty small which is why i find the weight so absurd

[worthy steeple]

fair point

[viscid mica]

Fair

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/о-gif-7889686974128802233

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/send-this-to-someone-who-looks-like-this-send-this-cat-silly-cat-gif-7223206856976176840

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[viscid mica]

@worthy steeple ^

[worthy steeple]

NOOO😭

[viscid mica]

You got got

[slim phoenix]

are you guys saying the omni needs a nerf?

even though its incredibly weak and can easily be killed by almost everything

[hasty coyote]

omni needs nerfs and buffs, when it gets countered, theres practically nothing it can do except die. When it doesnt get countered, theres practically nothing the target can do except die.

[slim phoenix]

i only find raptors hard to kill when its like 6 v 1

[hasty coyote]

pin needs a nerf (not grapple)
bucking needs a buff
scraping omni on terrain needs a nerf

[slim phoenix]

and even then i can take half of them with me

[hasty coyote]

then you are either playing against very bad omnis (which most are) or playing as something like a stego (which innately counters omnis)

[slim phoenix]

only play cera carno dilo and dibble

[slim phoenix]

yeah i see alot of ppl pouncing each other

accidently

[worthy steeple]

any fight with omni pack is just terrain camping which is totally lame

so they either getting easily countered by terrain, or you easily die to grapple

[hasty coyote]

cera and especially dilo are overtuned atm, but both can be shredded by omnis who play well. Diablo is much larger, so its going to take more omnis to kill, though I have killed one with only 2 omnis. Carno is designed to hunt them so they are gonna struggle, especially solo, but a pack of 3 can maul a carno.

[worthy steeple]

there’s nothing in between and that’s the lamest part

[hasty coyote]

basically if omni plays well and the target doesnt terrain camp, the target just dies. If the omni doesnt play well or gets terrain camped, it just dies

and thats the issue

let alone you play anything 1kg lighter than omni and just die on the spot because funny pin

[worthy steeple]

“but isle is survival game, not pvp” yeah nice but what about making game little bit more pvp and skill and less “this dino can’t fight this dino because there’s a small bush”

[slim phoenix]

so you know how cera gets a buff from corpses, would it be a good idea to give a sort off passive buff like that to omnis. so maybe a damage or bleed damage buff when in a group or something or would that be op

[hasty coyote]

that would just make omnis more oppressive when strong, but just as weak when behind

[slim phoenix]

omnis attack with claws aswell as their mouth so...

[hasty coyote]

what omnis need is a smaller gap between op and unviable. terrain camping needs to be less strong, bucking needs to be more strong, and pin need some nerf.

[hasty coyote]

thats why theres damage and bleed pounce. Omnis can literally choose their hunting strategy based on the target. Bleed pounce may deal more bleed damage, but just going damage pounce against something small allows you to kill it insanely fast.

damage pounce deals 1000 with your whole stam bar, against pachy and dilo, you can kill it in 2 pounces even if it bucks instantly.

[slim phoenix]

i pinned a dilo not long ago with a friend we had full stam and the dilo got up due to our stamina running out and the dilo ran of like we never did anything to it

we was both 100% also

[hasty coyote]

were you dealing damage or bleed?

[slim phoenix]

damage

[hasty coyote]

genuinely, something had to go seriously wrong because thats not physically possible

[slim phoenix]

thats what i thought. we was both shocked that it diddnt die

[hasty coyote]

either you pounce didnt deal damage, or that dilo was hacking somehow

because even one of you dealing damage should have killed it from full stam

[slim phoenix]

ever since then ive been telling myself omni needs some sort of damage buff cause its just really weak. imo

atm omni is run and hide or be killed by almost everything unless its a full group vs 1 other person lol

[topaz elm]

@steep gazelle I agree with everything except the scavenger part
troodon is getting luckier with it's changes in part with sanctuary AI and changes to it's diets and overall it doesn't really make sense for troodon to be in that scavenging position
A highly social, coordinated pack hunter who uses venom to take down things larger than itself is kind of numbed by the ability to simply scavenge as theres no real reason to try and take down fresh prey

great suggestion with the venom though, I like that

however maybe not dropping from stage 3 to 2, instead going back to stage 1 since going back to 2 would be really overpowered

[steep gazelle]

I'm saying this more because of the inability of the Hordtest Troodon to get food. Perhaps making it a scavenger only during the 1st mutation

[topaz elm]

that works but thats also a job covered by sanctuary AI

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1003091745984233563/1301683837566320723/GrasshopperIdle.gif

the humble grasshopper

[steep gazelle]

Well, there's been a while since there's been anything about them

[topaz elm]

true

[steep gazelle]

2 devblogs and none talking about the smaller AIs

[steep gazelle]

I really don't think it will be op, as the duration of the 2nd stage is really low

[topaz elm]

well Im just thinking that it goes back to second and theres only one pounce into another 45 seconds of stage 3

dont get me wrong as a troodon lover, it sounds great.
but i just want to speak in fairness

[steep gazelle]

Maybe it really could be too strong. But on the other hand increasing the purple stage to 60s would be good, at least at night

[topaz elm]

yeah I'd like to see the night time venom get buffed in time duration

[haughty grotto]

@topaz elm there are two important oversights in your post.

Firstly, large animals are not susceptible to bleeding more just cause they have larger arteries.
Everything is relative.
If I cut the same artery (say, on the front leg), of a cat versus a tiger, the cat loses less blood because it has less blood, and the tiger loses more blood because it has more blood. Overall percentage wise if it was the exact same attack intensity, depth and location, both lose the same percentage of blood relative to what their bodies have. The tiger would not be hurt more.

Secondly, you're probably comparing bleed inflicted by small creatures to large creatures. That's a huge difference. Of course a raptor bleeding a dilo will cause more bleed damage than trying to bleed a stego. Just like a cat slashing you will make you bleed far less than a tiger slashing you.
Large arteries are protected by more connective tissue, deeper in the body and surrounded by thicker skin.

[eager saddle]

wouldnt it make more sense to say larger animals are more susceptible to bleed because they need to bleed blood further in their large bodies so it goes faster and needs to pump stronger? Or something like that?

[topaz elm]

its a lot easier to actually make contact with that huge area that is susceptible to bleed
going off how the game works, If i hit you somewhere it will do a set amount of damage and a set amount of bleed that is changed depending on a few factors (stamina, diet, hunger, thirst etc)

small creatures should take less bleed damage from a regular because theres less of them to hit
5 liters of blood in a human, 245 liters in an elephant 49x more
a person dies from losing 2 1/2 to 4 liters of blood, so 50% to 80% of our total "blood pool"
an elephant may die from losing 73.5 liters of blood, thats only 30% of their total "blood pool"

humans are quite resilient so lets use an example you used, cats and tigers

average cat is around 9 pounds and has around 540 mL of blood
tigers can get up to 600 pounds so we'll put it down at about 450/500 for an average male, having around 60 mL per kg
500 pounds is ~226kg, giving us 13,560 mL of blood (13.5 liters)

A cat can lose 30-40% of it's blood before dying while a tiger can lose up to 50% before going into shock

So I think what we can take away from this is:
Micro tier animals may die quicker since they have less blood
medium sized animals can survive higher amounts of blood loss since they both have lots of it and a good size where they can recover from losing nearly 50% of their bloodpool
Large creatures aren't very resistant to bleeding because they need lots of blood to supply their body with oxygen, after losing 30% of their blood their systems fail

so something like herrera as seen in the photo would die quick from bleed as it physically has less blood
Diablo, in this example, would also die quickly because of it's weight needing a lot of blood to supply it's body with oxygen. If it loses too much it's body fails
Dilo/omni is at a good weight where it's body can recover from larger amounts of blood loss, due to having a body that does not need as much blood as something like a diablo, but also having ample amounts as opposed to herrera

[viscid mica]

Human smol

[unreal crystal]

Agree, scavenge ability would make troodon a bit op imo but 100% agree with the rest

[neon willow]

@sand garden The tail tip actually does have a pretty hefty damage reduction already. Like, I've gotten hit with a stego tail swing (1000 base damage) on the tip on my tail as an Omni (450 hp) and it didn't kill me in one shot damage reduction. The base of the tail has less of a damage reduction modifier, though.

Honestly I think the main issue is desynchronization. The hit lands as a Body hit because the server thinks you're closer to the other dinosaur. But on your client locally, it appears you are further away and got clipped by the tip of the tail. As a result it looks like you took full damage on a tail hit

[sand garden]

That may be so, but there's been time were I've been running away from something like a Cera and he does about 2 charge bites to my tail and puts me to orange or red, so sometimes it feels like it does and doesnt have damage reduction lol.

[neon willow]

That's the desync. It looks like you're being bitten on the tail. But the server thinks you're closer to the cera, so the server's calculating damage like they're body shots

I hope they fix that though because it's really awful for pvp especially for glass cannon types that need to dodge hits

You think you're clear and you're not. It's awful

[sand garden]

For real, one of the main reasons I dont like playing things like Omni or Dilo, I always end up getting killed because of it lol.

[neon willow]

Same lol