balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

it can

[fervent orchid]

only if its swimming

[solid wyvern]

Deino not intended to fight stego on land

[dusky surge]

tail jab is 1250
powerswing standing is 1800
powerswing running is 2250

this animal is designed to hurt

[fervent orchid]

yeah and it should have a cooldown and stamina cost to match

[dusky surge]

it does

[fervent orchid]

hardly

[dusky surge]

10% is insane

[fervent orchid]

tactile makes that 10% stam loss a joke

[dusky surge]

it is the highest stamcost for any attack in the entire game

so then remove tactile lol

like people blame stego for the overpowered mutations

[solid wyvern]

Ahem. It's a mut issue not stegos balance

[fervent orchid]

stego shouldnt have access to tactile

[dusky surge]

nothing should

without tactile, stego would suck. remove tactile, reduce the stamcosts on powerswing, good

[fervent orchid]

i mean it can but it should be nerfed

tactile should be nerfed

[dusky surge]

tactile should be entirely reworked to not be how it is

[fervent orchid]

tactile makes herbis a problem to deal with sometimes. especially bigger ones like trikes who can just beat each other up and stay at full stam in a full sprint just by riding each others asses lol

ive done it, its broken

[half widget]

remove combat muts. it further complicates the balance of the game when it was already a mountain to climb beforehand. game needs to be in a copasetic state before combat mutations make any sense

[solid wyvern]

Btw Dondi was saying somewhere that most mutattions will be nerfed by giving lower % buffs. Instead mutation buffs will proggress after completing life cycle and reincarnating after dying as senior

[dusky surge]

thank you, yes

[fervent orchid]

i think if they nerfed muts across the board and made it a small bonus instead of a near combat changer it would be good for the game

[dusky surge]

that doesn't solve the issue

[solid wyvern]

Yeah but I am just saying that this a thing

[dusky surge]

it just means people will grind out the "good" mutations till they're good again

[fervent orchid]

at least you'd have to work for it i guess?

but yeah that would just be grinding for the good ones and nothing else

[solid wyvern]

Tactile definitely should be reworked from % bonus to more constant number or something like that

[fervent orchid]

or just removed because i can see it being a huge problem later when we have even bigger things that can use it

imagine shant with tactile

[dusky surge]

frankly i just think a lot of herbis are balanced AROUND tactile (stego) rather than around the base stam system

nothing should cost 10% per single attack

[keen plover]

also the cool and epic 15% running power swing

[fervent orchid]

yeah tactile just needs removed. i think it would make the game easier to balance as a base without it

[keen plover]

Meanwhile trike is dealing insane damage at 0% stam cost 😭

[fervent orchid]

^

[keen plover]

Why do the ceratopsians not have stam costs is my question

[dusky surge]

absolutely foul

[fervent orchid]

i wonder how a slow stam drain keeping themselves in the sparring stance would work. give them a stam cost for their increased defensive stance

[dusky surge]

they're actually designed well if tactile wasn't a thing

[dusky surge]

would be exceptionally unfun and probably would kill the animal

[keen plover]

I don't think being in a stance should cost stamina. Only attacks should imo

[fervent orchid]

especially the running knock down

[keen plover]

It just seems odd to me is all

[fervent orchid]

i agree now that i think about it

[keen plover]

I think Stegos powerswing should cost like half the amount for each attack version. If tactile is removed

[fervent orchid]

i have bad luck growing dibs and ht is too unstable for my internet but yeah... never really thought about that

[keen plover]

I think the running flip should cost something lol. Maybe 2%

[fervent orchid]

it should cost something for sure

[dusky surge]

yea for sure. that would be fine

[dusky surge]

eh, if it did decent damage, sure, but i think that sounds super clunky

[fervent orchid]

dibble charge does quite a bit on top of the insane bleed it does i think a stamina cost is due

[dusky surge]

ehhh, it does pretty poor damage all things considered

[keen plover]

you know my thoughts on that haha

[dusky surge]

only slightly more than a cera bite

[keen plover]

I want better diablo in terms of that, but it shouldn't be free

[fervent orchid]

does the running charge do more than just the horn hit?

[dusky surge]

nope, less

i think it's the weakest attack dibble has damage wise

[fervent orchid]

vs a normal cera bite or a charged bite?

tho i guess today i wasnt a fg cera and got a body hit by a charging dib and got dropped to fast yellow.
im just trying to make sense of the damage is all

[elfin night]

Deals less than a normal cera bite I believe

[fervent orchid]

but the bleed is decent

[dusky surge]

nah its more

[fervent orchid]

i do think the dibble/trike running attack should have a stam cost to it even a small cost. like yes, they'd be running at you to begin with but

[keen plover]

I mean it's a knockdown ability that sets up for their harder hitting attacks

Like rn you can get a cerato to red health in the best case scenario as diablo. All that from a 0% stam cost ability

[fast meteor]

no nerfing dinos plz! with apex introduction the last thing we need is weak dinos

[elfin night]

Bruh

If something needs a nerf it should get it. Although luckily that’s just a few cases

If anything most need a buff

[fervent orchid]

dinos need nerfed at some point to avoid power creep. trikes on ht are probably at their strongest. i imagine they'll get nerfed once theyve been tested with rex, along with rex being on ht at its strongest then nerfed. which makes sense to do

[dusky surge]

trikes on the HT probably will get buffed if anything i'mma be honest lol

like i think you're vastly underestimating just how strong they want apexes to be

[elfin night]

Agreed

The only nerf I can really see is toning down the growth curve

But then there’s parts like the alt attacks and some aspects of its mobility that do need buffing

[solid wyvern]

Trikes damage aint as big to require any nerfs

[fervent orchid]

i only played it a little bit and never made it past 40% so i cant really say for sure that it absolutely needs nerfed. i said they were probably at their strongest, not that they were at their strongest.

[elfin night]

Only the growth spike

Then it needs buffs elsewhere

You gotta acknowledge it is a damn trike too

[knotty stratus]

150 is normal bite damage charge bite is up to 350

[steep gazelle]

And it can reach up to 500 with the 3 mutations, since the cerato is the only one that has its rmb ability affected by the damage mutations.

[viscid mica]

@dusky surge omni-directional high speed movement for such minimal cost would make dibble way stronger and probably let it counter even 3 skilled cera

[dusky surge]

ok lol

[viscid mica]

It’d be op for such a low cost

If it where more high risk high reward they I could see it being fair play

[steep gazelle]

Dibble is fine as he is, most things can run away from him without any problem due to his low speed and not so good stam

[dusky surge]

yea for now

but i think an ability like this would be useful come allosaurus or even rex

also frankly i thought it was cool and made dibble less of a smaller trike so i stand

fully expected the downvotes tbh but i'd sooner die than allow a cool idea not to be shared

[crimson crater]

wouldn’t mind it but it probably would be too much considering dibbles current state

[viscid mica]

@wanton igloo there’s a mutation for that

@candid dome that count for _ is op?

[candid dome]

It's for isle discussion only otherwise we'd all get bingo in like 1hr

[viscid mica]

DAMMIT aight aight got it

[onyx lichen]

"Though it is neither particularly fast nor damaging for its size, ceratosaurus is an extremely durable animal." #isle-phase-three message

[solid wyvern]

I am feel bad for saying this but Dondi written it in the way that makes it sound dumb considering charged bite being 350 damage

Like I am pretty sure that even when creature roster will be complete it still will have strongest bite for its weight category

(kentro doesn't count cause it do damage by tail)

[iron tree]

@languid sparrow #balance-feedback message Alligatorid*

[faint mist]

Give Dilos working Venom back

[stark knoll]

#🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[viscid mica]

Works on the horde test but the patch hasn’t been deployed to main branch yet

[glass harbor]

@analog mirage I agree with all muts, except for nocturnal. There's already a mutation that buffs night vision.

[analog mirage]

That’s why I said to just merge them into the same thing. Keep the name nocturnal, put the mutation on it and keep it a base mutation

[viscid mica]

@hasty dune I agree it’s too long how ever I don’t agree in sized based adjustments exactly just a across the board would be nice imo

[hasty dune]

Yea something needs to change, trood only last 45 seconds and it resets back at 0

[viscid mica]

Ya you can get a solid 1.5k ish damage or more if it’s night off dilo venom from a single dilo it’s pretty nutty

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message is 99% cera bleed resistance fixed? if not then i guess that was a buff, not a bug

[steep gazelle]

Cerato immune to allo 🔥🔥

[worthy steeple]

yeah cera was really underperforming before

punching bag for the rest of the roster

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

At this point Im praying to all thats holy that sub rex will absolutely maul ceras

Its the ecosystems only hope at this point

[neon willow]

I have little faith that will save it. We'll just trade ceras for rexes - all the people who follow the current meta will just upgrade

[cosmic pelican]

At least rex will be vulnerable to the rest of the roster for most of its growth

Up to ~70% its viable prey for even 1 carno

[steep gazelle]

Really, low damage, low life and only has debuff. Cera needs buffs 🔥😭🙏

[worthy steeple]

i hope not, imagine how strong they should make sub rex for it to maul cera

[cosmic pelican]

1.3T, 50kmh sub rex with pin

[worthy steeple]

real!

[cosmic pelican]

Gg for ceras

[worthy steeple]

please no..

[cosmic pelican]

I mean, from what weve seen sp far of rex it may be a reality...

[worthy steeple]

i think it was wip, but thats totally possible lol

[steep gazelle]

50km is faster than a 100% Carno 😭

[cosmic pelican]

Hopefully, 2-3t rex being omni speed with ambush is criminal

And it has pin too, like wtf 😭

Cant wait to kill juvi rexes that try to pin my troodon with retaliation dmg though

[steep gazelle]

I just want to see how op and broken Allo and Rex will be in their hordtest

[dusky surge]

i mean... technically, but also no

[cosmic pelican]

A 700kg rex ran as fast as a galli last time we saw it so...

[dusky surge]

carno can reach top speeds of nearly 60km/hr

[steep gazelle]

55km with charge

[cosmic pelican]

59.4kmh

[steep gazelle]

Nah

[dusky surge]

no. 59.4

yes, objectively, yes

[cosmic pelican]

Yah

[steep gazelle]

It is not possible

[dusky surge]

it is literally HOW it is

[steep gazelle]

I don't believe you

[dusky surge]

it is so possible that it's reality

[cosmic pelican]

If it was 55kmh a charging carno couldnt catch up to a galli, ever

[dusky surge]

you think we both arbitrarily pulled 59.4 out of our ass? No, that's literally how fast it is

[steep gazelle]

Nah

[dusky surge]

glad you agree

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/potato-emmy-emmy28potato-gif-24833658

[steep gazelle]

Not that that's a problem 🙈

[worthy steeple]

🫥

[worthy steeple]

hehehe💩

[minor axle]

imma prepare a burner beipi, as a prank

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message or just remove the mutation in general since its so problematic lol

[languid sparrow]

youre right XD

[cobalt dagger]

I kinda only read this one comment but I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

If something 'destroys' something else, the players will just play that something else. And if something is popular, such as a cera, no matter of 'population control' killing will actually get rid of them. It will only make them smaller. (Although I suppose that's still an improvement, albeit a short lived one.) But if it's harder to kill a cera than a raptor, they'll still play cera even if their cera dies, as long as cera is the most OP.

Killing overpopulated things doesn't get rid of them as long as the players keep picking them. Balancing the playables themselves would have more impact on what species players pick to go as.

[neon willow]

Well, that's exactly it. If the new meta is that rex is the OP playable, then all the players that play cera because it's the OP playable in the current meta will just switch to rex. Which, to be fair, there's no telling if rex will be OP because it hasn't entered HT yet.

I've seen it happen over multiple patches - Utah was op so everyone played Utah. Then carno was king, and everyone played carno. Then pachy, and deino. Cera is currently on top. Every time a new dino hits the top of the food chain, a significant number of players who care about meta will switch to whatever the new most effective fighter is. Only those who actually genuinely enjoyed the dino keep playing it after it loses it's throne

[hasty coyote]

Honestly, if they just remove combat mutaitons, a LOT of cera's power will be removed. The main issue with cera is that its stats work perfectly with EVERY combat mutation.

eat to heal with over eat, damage muts working on charged bite, speed muts making it faster than 3 common threats (other ceras, tenos, and pachies), less damage from larger targets also works on common targets, more bleed or fracture res is just insane, and all the other life style mutations are all pretty solid.

[viscid mica]

@fervent orchid wdym?

[fervent orchid]

a friend and i were fighting teno and got stuck on a rock with it, it was kicking and facing us but still kicking us

[viscid mica]

So it was hacking

Cuz teno kick doesn’t reach past its thighs

[fervent orchid]

yeah i was at its front shoulders and it was kicking me

[cobalt dagger]

'Only those who enjoy the dino play it after it looses the throne'
That happened to me with Dilo, I keep playing it when its trash and then dropping it when it's OP.

I'm still a dilo lover, deep down inside. But I am very in favor of 'recharge clones by biting the enemy', I think it needs that.

And retain it's fragility so that it risks it's life to recharge those clones.

[cobalt dagger]

That's definitely hacking. I saw a similar hack on a trike that was hitting stego's outside their tail swipe range and also speed hacking. He was sliding all over the ground/his animation was not following his speed or his movements.

[hasty coyote]

personally I'd rather we just nerf the clone damage to like 1/4th of dilo's bite and make them actually able to be hit before they hit you. That way the target can choose to either burn some stam to hold off the damage, or take damage to preserve stam. This also gives the dilo more openings to bite as the target will either be vulnerable after an attack on a clone, or the dilo can attempt to fake being a clone and the target wont hit them thinking that its a weak clone.

[fervent orchid]

i dont remember if i was recording or not, ill have to check

[solid wyvern]

I think it will be juvie and juvie can't crush

[viscid mica]

@steep gazelle 1.2k in 30 seconds isn’t accurate it’s far less than that for 30 seconds but I digress

Reducing the damage won’t fix the fact that it’s gonna do a ton of damage as the venom lasts insanely long especially at night well over tuned the damage isn’t the problem it’s the ease of application and length

[cobalt dagger]

Some don't need to spend stamina to kill an incoming clone. Teno turns very fast and has a fast bite rate, turn and biting the clone can eliminate it with no problem even with it's current very fast bite rate, so long as the clone isn't invisible.

I really don't like the idea of reducing clone damage because I feel like dilo should be venomous, and I want a venom that does damage. But venom is injected on bite, so I think damage relative to bites dealt is fair. Therein, if clones are potential damage (if the prey doesn't attack the clone first) they are gained by landing hits.

Faking being a clone is really hard even when they try to hit them, because if they ARE trying to hit them then of course they're going to hit you as you run in thinking you're a clone. It's easier to land a hit when they're ignoring clones and mistake you for one and then proceed to ignore you because they think you're a clone.

The best way to let dilos pretend to be clones would be if smelling would show them a faint ghost of where their clones are.

[cobalt dagger]

I basically agree to this.

I think they sorta summarized what I was thinking.

[viscid mica]

@cobalt dagger not bad

[eager saddle]

#balance-feedback message @sour gyro pretty sure that’s just a visual bug

You can get meat stuck in your jaw even though it isn’t there. So you can still bite because the meat doesn’t actually exist

[steep gazelle]

This is also a problem, the duration of the fog is too long. About the damage I mentioned, it's the 3 initial clones and the 3 that take 24s To recharge, This for each dilo

[obsidian yacht]

This person has copy pasted this in every single feedback channel

[rapid flume]

#balance-feedback message @keen zealot clones are still broken

[keen zealot]

no

[rapid flume]

yep

[keen zealot]

ok

[rapid flume]

99% sure you are supposed to be able to see them

[keen zealot]

no

not as the dilo that sent them no

[rapid flume]

as the envenomated creature you are

[keen zealot]

ok

if thats all you have to say then have a good one im playing dilo right now and they are working fine

[rapid flume]

how would you be able to tell if they were invisible?

[keen zealot]

because ppl im fighting have been biting them which means they can see them

[rapid flume]

some are some aren't

[keen zealot]

okay

this conversation has nothing to do with my suggestion though

[rapid flume]

you said they were working, but they're not working as intended

[keen zealot]

cool

[rapid flume]

https://youtu.be/S7Myy6FxJWY this video shows the bugged clones

[viscid mica]

@keen zealot while I get where your coming from clones are currently over tuned (venom lasts too long and is insanely easy to apply to things far larger than you) it wouldn’t help to make it even stronger by being able to min max your damage

[keen zealot]

bro i do not care im ngl (not to u ziowar)

[viscid mica]

No I know I saw the above convo

They work just fine on HT

[keen zealot]

thats fair tbh but i still think it'd be really neat

still more balanced than almost dying and coming back full hp tho

[viscid mica]

Absolutely if the timing and ease of application was better tuned I would fully agree it’d be neat

[keen zealot]

honestly tho if the ones with it are forced to go that instead of gastro it could also hinder the dilo in some cenarios bc it cant just go gastro and has to actually heal like the game intends

[viscid mica]

I mean dilo heals really well tbh

Deino imo is the worst it takes well over a hour to get from red to orange let alone full

[keen zealot]

i totally see where ur coming from and see how it could be pretty awful to play against with huge groups but like, if a group is super big and you get purple ur prolly just dead anyways, imo it would most assist duos and trios hunt larger prey

[viscid mica]

Well think of this a single dilo at night with roughly 400 damage worth of bites can deal roughly 3k damage to a stego by himself with just clones over the 10ish plus minutes allotted to night infection (yes a solo dilo can solo a dibble if they get them to t3 at night I’ve tested this it’s insane)

Mind you it also takes less bites to afflict stuff smaller than a stego

[keen zealot]

fair enough

yeah im with u then on this one i didnt know it was that insane, cool change but only if clones get nerfed lol

[viscid mica]

You should try solo dilo hunting up it’s hard cuz you gotta not get hit lol but you can do unholy damage

A trio can reasonably hunt a FG stego with working venom at night right now

Easily at that they need only not get hit

[keen zealot]

tbh ive mostly been killing ceras bc i hate them i havent been messing with herbis too much, will try it

[viscid mica]

I mean that’s another good example of how over tuned the venom is you can face tank a cera walk away and spam clones till they die

Cera in all aspects should easily win a face tank battle, larger health pool, higher bite force etc no reason you should win that. But because you can apply t3 venom in only afew bites you win

[keen zealot]

oh i havent been face tanking ive just been abusing the speed difference lol ive killed several and not been made puke so i havent rlly been abusing

[viscid mica]

Ya I mean dilo wins for other reasons if they play it well but you can in fact face tank to t3 run away easy claps

[keen zealot]

they keep tryna run in a straight line away from me so i just eat their butts

[keen zealot]

cancer but neat

[viscid mica]

Stop and alt bite that HS would be like 200 damage ish?

Silly cera mains

[keen zealot]

🤷‍♂️ they play cera for a reason

[viscid mica]

Fair

[keen zealot]

good talk tho thanks for like being a real human being abt it instead of just toxic
cya around

[viscid mica]

[minor axle]

#balance-feedback message

Tbh, gastro isn't something I would really usually pick on dilo. It is alright, but you have to be low on hunger to really use it, and only kind of have the health to tank a few hits. Usually I would reccomend speeds, and then reabsorb or a safety meniscus etc (because as a dilo besides venom your advantage is speed, which you HAVE to maintain. And the remaining slot to be fair is just a "whatever")

[stark mirage]

nah there is no face tanking a cera to apply venom. That is how you die asap, right after you vomit, since dilo has the longest vomit animation. Only way this can even remotely work is if there are multiple dilos to split attention. Dilo vs cera though, if the clones are working (bc they still have places where they dont work) is pretty even. Just takes a little coordination from the dilo player.

[viscid mica]

Hahahaha unfortunately with working venom this does infact work

It only takes about afew bites and dilo has by far the fastest bite speed by the time you get a vomit(roughly 2 hits) they can get off 3 ish bites and that should be neary enough to t3 if not t3 (night)

Then it’s a simple run away and spam

The majority of people who frequent this channel or even gen chat will agree that a dilo with venom can infact face tank a cera

[stark mirage]

At night its 2 in day its 5 if im correct

[viscid mica]

5 sounds about right

But that’s more than enough you can get five out in the time a cera could get maybe 3?

4 probably during day if you account for vomit

Still plenty of HP to run and spam

[stark mirage]

thats just something you dont do as a dilo

[viscid mica]

Don’t but can

[stark mirage]

i say this bc you have to bank on ai working

[viscid mica]

The can is the problem

[viscid mica]

Like I said working venom

Ignoring something simply cuz it doesn’t work on one branch doesn’t mean it isn’t a thing

[stark mirage]

I hear people say venom works on ht but it is still unreliable for me outside of hl

[viscid mica]

Ya it works fine ish on horde test

[stark mirage]

got some weird prblms within 50ft of water

[viscid mica]

Meh it’s a constant WIP

Especially with stuff that has different mechanics than basic land Dino

[stark mirage]

I think the dil /cera matchup is mostly a net positive for the game same with carno

[stark mirage]

Also i would like to add(because I forgot) that during the day it wont happen, but during the night this is possible since it takes 2 body shots to F.E. and the time F.E. lasts at night is pretty long. During the day ,it wears off alot quicker before you have to risk yourself again.

[crimson crater]

you can overeat without vomiting, gastro is busted on every playable

[viscid mica]

It can happen for both ones just far easier than the other

[dusky surge]

@elfin night with the coming rework ptera is gonna be FINE lmao. Get ready for the downvotes tho for being a filthy ptera hater

[elfin night]

Exactly

I genuinely think the rework is all it needs to be more useful in land

Because then it would allow you to better reposition yourself for more take off spots and also be more useful in tiny tier PvP

I’ve played ptera like 12 times at best in my life and even then I bet I could win ANY short or long distance race with any playable ever

[slim dragon]

I once tested ptera's sprint flight speed by chasing carnos around, before the nerf
My conclusion was that ptera's sprint is at least 70 km/h
Also ptera can keep its top speed even after releasing the sprint key, so no stamina cost

[elfin night]

Dunno if it was nerfed, but ptera holding shift and flying is apparently around 100kph

[slim dragon]

Well, possibly
I said atleast 70 km/h because I could outfly them easily while they were charging
At carno's old charging speed, which was around 65 km/h iirc ?

[elfin night]

Correct

Either way yes, it can clearly outpace a charging carno and wasting a minuscule fraction of its stam since it keeps that momentum

[slim dragon]

Heh
I remember back when omni (utah at the time) was 110 km/h

[elfin night]

Back when omni was balanced and not unplayable and terrible and underperforming at everything

[obsidian yacht]

#balance-feedback message An accurate to life ptera could, yes. The Isle's scrawny ahh island locked ptera? No.

[dusky surge]

i played ptera as of late. basically never went under 60% stam. the idea that its stam is bad is ridiculous, this thing has the best stam efficiency in the game, bar none

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message cera being agile has always kinda been its thing. and dilo is already busted as is, no need to fuel the fire

[dusky surge]

"a little more agile than cerato"

cerato is one of the game's most agile predators lol why does dilo need to be that agile

[topaz elm]

as another pteranodon player, that’s not really playing pteranodon

In trying to get pteranodon to interact more with the other species, they ruined its ability to fly around and now pteranodons are more conservative with their energy and don’t interact

Yes pteranodon has great stamina if you glide everywhere and follow down hill trends

But if you actually wanted to do something as pteranodon, hunt a baby, dog fight another pteranodon, take off of the ground in an emergency

You are losing nearly all of your stamina
Pteranodon cannot rise into the canopy level of trees without losing 15-20% of its stamina as a flying creature

If carno’s charge took 15% of your stamina minimum to activate, it would useless
If galli’s mobilize call took 15% of your stamina to activate it would be useless
If pachy’s ram did this, pachy would be even more dead

So why is pteranodon to heavily nerfed, it feels like I’m playing a spectator when I just want to hunt stuff

[dusky surge]

how tf are you losing 15% of your stamina just getting into the trees what

[topaz elm]

the take off for pteranodon should be like 5% of its stamina so it’s on par with Omni’s pounce, pachy ram, galli kick etc

The rise in elevation stamina drain should also be reduced so that pteranodon can get to more places and not use more of its stamina because while yes Ptera can get everywhere on a single bar of stamina by carefully gliding around inching yourself higher etc etc

Try to fly around one area, catch fish, land, escape danger, do what other creature do

You’ll be nearly out of stamina very quickly

[topaz elm]

Pteranodon launch from the ground just going up costs so much and which is why I think its stam cost should be nerfed

Ptera gameplay is just so restrictive

Not only in how rudimentary Pteras movements are but also keeping your movements limited to conserve as much stamina as possible

Flying feels like more of a chore to manage than a super powerful unique ability

If you want to have fun and play pteranodon, just play Herrera you can get much more freeing style of gameplay than the flying reptile

[dusky surge]

imma be honest lol no ptera is infinitely more free

such a wild claim to even state that somehow by any metric herrera is more freeing lol

[elfin night]

@pale token AI overview + we don't care about accuracy

[dusky surge]

if you want to traverse the entire map in the least amount of time for the least amount of stam, that's what ptera does

[elfin night]

also saying that it starts at low altitude is far from disingenous. The only thing taller than water access is the highlands, and then west access is a giant plateau so far above west rail and south plains

Oh and the part of "almost never there are fish" is...laughably biased

if you so want as a pteranodon, you could literally spawn in water access and fly directly to west rail before you starve

[pale token]

Bro, nobody plays ptera just to travers the map, we like to like....play the game, you know? Sure, if youre flying to a lower eleveation, its fine, But, for instance, just now.....I HAVE TO land to drink, i drank at water access, then flew to highlands, because of the change in elevation, i couldnt even get to highlands

[elfin night]

no other carnivore could ever do that

[pale token]

You barely ever spawn at water access, tf?

Used to, not anymore. You spawn at west, to the west of the pond.....and to get to that pond, you have to fly up. You even play ptera, or just playing devils advocate?

seriously, what is your deal? Do you just make shizz up? Like to argue? I just sat at west for literally like 25 minutes, no fish there. They didnt spawn, it stayed empty

[elfin night]

you literally only have two spawn points

west access and water access. 50/50

barely ever is...a blatant product of confirmation bias

[pale token]

uh, OK? What is your point? If i spawn at West and want to get to the pond, off the rip im using ridiculous amounts of stam, thats a fact

Why should deino get regen while swimming, dinos while walking

[elfin night]

you might spend like 30% at best

[pale token]

Yet ptera cannot regen GLIDING, it makes zero sense

OK, wtf is youre point? Thats ok for you? I shouldnt have to take a 10 minute break every time i have to climb because of map elevation

You are daft, bye

[elfin night]

because deino doesn't move at 60kph with zero costs and it also has other things to worry about in its very limited volume of water it lives in

[crimson crater]

last time i checked it can’t cover the entire map with full a stamina bar

[pale token]

Dondi spawned himself in the sky to show it can

[elfin night]

it only takes 4 minutes to regen your whole stamina bar. and yeah, some areas are gonna be harder to traverse than others without slipstreams yet, but it is what it is.

[pale token]

LOL it sucks

[elfin night]

you can go from water access all the way to west rail pond potentially wasting like 30% stam and much quicker than everyone else

[pale token]

yea, and? I should be able to, Im a ptera

[elfin night]

for being able to fly for much longer than that, not really

[pale token]

i should regen stam GLIDING

it makes literally zero logical sense, that i remain exhausted gliding

[elfin night]

then it is not unreasonable for you to regen the entire stamina bar sitting 4 minutes when you can stay in the air for 15, much longer in theory

it is already one of the most stamina efficient travelers in the game

[pale token]

Dude again, do you even play ptera? I dont want to carefully GLIDE everywhere then sit....tf

[elfin night]

on top of being a flyer with its advantages

[pale token]

i want to fish, fight, chase things

and doing all of this is not practical in its current state

[elfin night]

Imagine the strongest movement ability in the entire game taking some effort to be used

[pale token]

sure, if i want to fly to the highest point and just....glide, i guess you have a point

straight up, i think youre an idiot my guy, just please dont talk to me.

[elfin night]

pffft

I guess proving it with a basic, completely unbiased experiment isn't enough

okay, I kneel before you, bearer of the Truth, educate me in your ways

ptera flight is abysmal and terrible and it should be able to fly up for 80 centuries

because the mighty AI said so

HE BLOCKED ME

LMAOOOOOOO

ofc he wasn't replying

@dusky surge you were right, I despise ptera and I didn't even play it like, yesterday with an actual timer and measuring distances 😔

[eager saddle]

Doesn’t ptera only lose stam while climbing in the air? Pretty sure it doesn’t lose stam while gliding

[elfin night]

yeah it doesn't

and it can glide at like...50-60kph?

imagine galli trotting 30% faster than it does already on a perfect diet

and running twice as fast

[eager saddle]

I mean, I get his point too but as long as it doesn’t lose stam while gliding it’s fine

[elfin night]

and ignoring terrain

[elfin night]

And the devs get it. They are going to make ptera not completely useless on land so people can still hunt and thrive there, or go up a more optimal take off spot instead of slowly trotting there

that's all ptera needs really, being more capable on land so flight isn't the only real option you have to move

[pale token]

no it doesnt lose stam, however if you actually play ptera, you find out quickly, that you cannot simply "glide" everywhere. For instance, going from drinking at water access to highlands, you have to CLIMB, ALOT to get there, and it absolutely destroys your stam. People act like ptera is only meant to glide, and sight-see. I main ptera, and i enjoy killing things, fighting, fishing, harassing deinos, traveling everywhere. You find out pretty quick that Pteras stam system severely punishing.

[eager saddle]

This is a fallacy. They are severely different playables and they are forced to walk around things. If you have climbed up above the trees, you can ignore terrain and the other dinos absolutely cannot.

[elfin night]

in fact, screw it

[pale token]

Uh, im forced to fly up over terrain that gets higher....

try again

[eager saddle]

Yes and then you take a break

[pale token]

Yea, nobody that acutally plays ptera enjoys sitting for 5 minutes after climing for 20 seconds

[iron tree]

just manage your stam

[pale token]

Try again with your fallacy point though, it was cute

i do, pretty well

[iron tree]

that's what I do

[elfin night]

they can...you know, accept that without the upcoming slipstreams, there are going to be parts that are harder to traverse than others. The overwhelmingly majority of birds also can't fly wherever they want (using this since this guy cares so much about realism despite me prioritizing gameplay)

[pale token]

but the climbing is an issue

[iron tree]

incorrect

[eager saddle]

Bro nobody that plays ANY dino enjoys sitting for minutes on end

[eager saddle]

Thank you, it was correct too

[iron tree]

If you'd manage your stamina you wouldn't be here

[pale token]

You literally cannot climb for more than 15 seconds your dork

you cant "manage" that

what is this, middle school hour?

[elfin night]

most birds can't fly over 5000 meter mountains or through cliff sea currents and that's okay. Deino in game also can't thrive wherever it wants, neither can herra or carno

[pale token]

bro, youre blocked, i cant read your stupid

[elfin night]

lmao

should I call a mod to see if the little goober calms down with the pterosaur talk, chat?

[pale token]

still cant read it

[golden coral]

I think there's some ways to just about keep height/glide by tapping and only ascending very slowly. And you can save stam, I think, by latching and regen stamina while hanging there, instead of landing fully and using more stamina to start flying again. Unless that's been changed.

[pale token]

I do that.....

im not a re re, ive got 1000 hours, over that now....ive been playing ptera for years

but, you have to land to do things, like drink, eat, and climbing is an issue, the main issue

[iron tree]

maybe try to glide every now and then

[golden coral]

Still struggling? If so, then maybe the better option for now is to wait for the slipstreams and thermals, and see how that works out. I imagine that'll make it a lot easier to travesere without worrying about stamina too much.

[eager saddle]

1. I have played ptera. A lot actually. And what I usually do is just climb to a tree top, rest on a tree and climb again. Which gives me plenty remaining stam.
2. If you wanna harrass dinos, you are using stam as a way to combat. And like any other dino, you can’t just keep fighting. You need to rest at one point and recovering stam while gliding would give you 0 reasons to sit aside from eating a fish.

[golden coral]

You can eat while latched, I believe. So catch fish, latch, eat, then fish again. Drinking, yeah, though that shouldn't be too often?

[eager saddle]

Yes, and you get stam while latching too

[iron tree]

and ptera is supposed to fish

[pale token]

No, im not "struggling" kids, youre missing the point, Gliding should regen stam. Climbing terrain uses an obscene amount of stam. Im happy that all 3 of you are happy with sitting for 5 minutes after ascending for about 10 seconds

it makes no sense

[eager saddle]

How about

You wait for the slipstreams to come oht

[iron tree]

nerf Ptera stam regen

[eager saddle]

And see then

[pale token]

1 second, im going to count in my head, right now how long i can climb for

[iron tree]

10 minutes seems fair

[eager saddle]

The slipstreams will change stam management a lot I imagine

[golden coral]

I don't think I ever said I would be happy with that, just trying to offer advice to make it easier. And if gliding did, you'd be able to just stay in the air forever almost, I don't think the devs might want that. But there are going to be things to help out, like aforementioned slipstreams and thermals and things, so you'll have a better time flying, while still not being able to just go here and there and everywhere however you see fit

[iron tree]

yeah and ptera will not have to fly everywhere

[pale token]

what? Its a ptera, it SHOULD fly everywhere

[eager saddle]

How many times do I need to tell you that NO ONE enjoys sitting for that long? You think dilo’s like it? Or omni’s?

[pale token]

thats like saying, dibby wont have to walk everywhere

They estimate they could fly for DAYS on end, at 15000 feet

[iron tree]

what the hell is a dibby

[worthy steeple]

we got a mad gamer in the chat

[iron tree]

we don't know that

and that makes like no sense

[eager saddle]

That’s a given in this society tbh

[iron tree]

that thing has to sleep at some point

[pale token]

Ok, lets look at a modern vultures, crows....

anything that flies for a living

[worthy steeple]

lmaoo

[iron tree]

screw autocorrection

[pale token]

the ptera would be an evolutianary failure

[golden coral]

A ptera is not a bird, and even if it was, game takes precedence over IRL

[eager saddle]

….you mean the ones using wind that isn’t currently in the game?

[iron tree]

Most pterosaurs were gliding most of the time

[golden coral]

And yes, that too, there's mechanics going to be added to help out, it's not neccesarily a stamina issue

[pale token]

Pteranodons, based on current scientific understanding, could potentially fly for 7 to 10 days at altitudes of 15,000 feet, covering distances of 8,000 to 12,000 miles.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Long-Distance Flight: Studies suggest that pteranodons, like the giant pterosaurs, were capable of long-distance flights, potentially even 10,000 miles nonstop.
Flight Characteristics: They likely flew at speeds of up to 80 miles per hour and could soar at altitudes of 15,000 feet.
Flight Duration: The estimated flight duration ranged from 7 to 10 days.
Range Estimates: The maximum range was estimated to be between 8,000 and 12,000 miles.
Flight Adaptations: Pterosaurs likely had adaptations that allowed them to fly efficiently, such as large wingspans and lightweight skeletons.
Comparison to Albatross: Scientists previously used the wandering albatross, the largest living bird, to model pterosaur flight, but they now understand that pterosaurs likely had different flapping frequencies and soaring abilities than albatrosses.

[iron tree]

most flyers glide most of the time

[eager saddle]

Is this AI again?

[pale token]

Ok, what source do you want?

[golden coral]

Even if all of that is true, it would not neccesarily work out well in the game

[iron tree]

most certainly

[pale token]

because there is a lot of it

[iron tree]

Me when animals have to sleep

[pale token]

you want an articly instead?

[iron tree]

me when animals have to drink

[eager saddle]

Literally anything else

[worthy steeple]

hmm no, you can fly from south swamps to north plains with just one stamina bar, no other animal can do that, ptera has excellent stamina, you just need to know how to use it properly

[pale token]

https://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131362653/peerless-pterosaur-could-fly-long-distance-for-days#:~:text=Peerless Pterosaur Could Fly Long-Distance For Days The massive,for up to 12%2C000 miles.

[eager saddle]

Better.

[pale token]

not the same ptera, but even larger

[eager saddle]

Ty, now let me read

[worthy steeple]

wow it could do that irl, unbelievable

but here’s small problem… it’s a game, not real life

[iron tree]

you do realise that an animal can't be active for multiple days?

[iron tree]

they couldn't fly for days anyway

[pale token]

Bro, how do you know better than the people that literally research the shizz

you cant just...make stuff up to support what you want to believe

[iron tree]

Because I use actual sources and use my brain

[pale token]

It says estimate, that is....a real source

[eager saddle]

Tbf the article is an actual source

[pale token]

is YOUR source sitting with you in the room, right now?

[iron tree]

maybe, just maybe animals can not be active for multiple days without taking a break

Animals have to drink and rest

[eager saddle]

Tho it is specifically mentioned tho that they aren’t entirey certain about the distance

[pale token]

Really? There are literally animals, right now, that do that

are you 5?

[iron tree]

they have to drink and rest at some point

[eager saddle]

This is correct. Iirc, there is a swallow that can do this

[worthy steeple]

some birds can sleep while flying long distances, pteras could do the same, tho it’s not confirmed

[pale token]

Yes, but there are MULTIPLE species, RIGHT NOW, that stay active for many days without eating and drinking tf?

[iron tree]

Pteranodon is not a bird

[worthy steeple]

so?…

[iron tree]

they have to sleep though

[golden coral]

But how would you translate that into the game? Technically, shouldn't deino be able to go without food for very long? And well, growth times clearly don't follow real life time.

[iron tree]

Crocodilians are a great example

[pale token]

Bro, im not saying the NEVER do...my god....im saying the video game Ptera SHOULD regen stam GLIDING, and use LESS STAM climbing

[eager saddle]

There is a slight problem with that statement tho. Even if they could, for in game balance and interaction sake, you cannot allow that

[elfin night]

people who try to use irl comparisons to justify balance changes

[pale token]

i will die on this hill

[iron tree]

another reason why it's a terrible idea to let ptera fly for an even longer time

[eager saddle]

Again, the less stam climbing issue can be resolved with the future upcoming wind mechanics

[golden coral]

And you might be right, but I would wait for the new mechanics first, then we'll see

[worthy steeple]

i can agree with stam for climbing, but even if they add stam regen for gliding it should be minimal, like 3 times worse than stam regen while sitting

[iron tree]

you can fly for almost 20 minutes

[pale token]

WHY? What happens if he does??? What game-breaking, earth shattering thing is a ptera going to do if he can regen stam gliding?

[worthy steeple]

the reason for ptera to have “bad” stam is so it can’t fly and harass players without them being able to do anything about it.

[pale token]

i already do that though....

i wanna do it longer!

[iron tree]

see

ptera is not built for combat

[worthy steeple]

yeah but you can’t do that forever, if they go uphill and then down you will lose a lot of stamina flying up

[iron tree]

Ptera is a fisher

[eager saddle]

Wasn’t there a meta some point of people getting pecked to death due to ptera’s mobility and low stam?

[worthy steeple]

like sucho 👹

[eager saddle]

As in they literally couldnt outrun and stam it

[iron tree]

Wait for quetz if you wanna be a flying menace

[iron tree]

Sucho is different

[golden coral]

And you're not supposed to do that, so no

[pale token]

Im jk, yes thats fun, but ptera should use less stam for climbing, and regen gliding, boom, im dying on this hill. I still love ptera and cant stop wont stop. And yes, i used to kill ceras, deinos with my ptera

[iron tree]

it's a massive animal

[worthy steeple]

it’s weaker, i agree

[iron tree]

Ptera weighs like...nothing

My sub troodon pinned an adult ptera

[iron tree]

Yeah

[worthy steeple]

i’m just messing around, why would you take this seriously😭

[iron tree]

some Utahraptors (rare W Utah players) were running around the map saving everyone

[worthy steeple]

ambush predator👹👹👹

[iron tree]

I wasn't replying to your message

[iron tree]

I already saw that clip

[worthy steeple]

yeah i sent it here like few times

[iron tree]

I saw most of your clips

😭

[worthy steeple]

😳

stalker!!

[iron tree]

or we just used to talk a lot

I...am...

[pale token]

This is disgusting

poor ptera

[worthy steeple]

oh… for some reason i knew that

[iron tree]

I am going to brutally trash every Pteranodon longiceps to death

[worthy steeple]

why did you change the username😭

[iron tree]

I changed it four times now

[pale token]

https://tenor.com/view/take-it-back-arnold-schwarzeegger-angry-gif-14193165

[worthy steeple]

fair lol

[iron tree]

let there be...CARNAGE

[worthy steeple]

troodondi..

[pale token]

also, Ptera shold be able to move when clinging to something, why is he jsut.....STUCK

like a freaking piece of gum on a wall

they were excellent climbers, their anatomy shows this. They were well adapted for climbing

[iron tree]

because it's a game and not its niche

keep in mind the game wants to achieve realism and not accuracy

[elfin night]

screw it, I am doing another experiment

[pale token]

what? Thats an oximoron. How can you have true realism with bad accuracy.

then its not very....realistic, is it?

[iron tree]

nah

Realism isn't accuracy

[pale token]

i cant, im done here. Im in the twilight zone

[iron tree]

and the devs are really good at creating a realistic but also fictional ecosystem

carnotaurus charging at high speeds was impossible in the real world yet it feels realistic in the isle

[elfin night]

I like to use the word grounded or immersive rather than realistic to avoid conflation

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1113598209584005231/Troodondi.png?ex=67ea7166&is=67e91fe6&hm=fe1df4daa1870f63969a8b70be3c51acb55faa49e38e17bb77f7b3f7c8c60796&

[pale token]

I hope to god you are trolling. Realism is literally based on accuracy. You cant call something "Realistic" when it has no basis in reality and is inaccurate.

[stark mirage]

i like carnos charge, but right now the servers cant predict player locations correctly so it looks like carno has psychic powers

especially at the speed it travels

[iron tree]

ehh

something can be realistic yet be inaccurate

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-patrick-star-patrick-stare-patrick-eyes-red-eyes-gif-14781443

[obsidian yacht]

Quetz and ptera need a mechanic where they can't be pinned unless the pinner exceeds 1 1/3 their weight

as it stands it just looks goofy and a ptera will get pinned by a freshspawn omni that it can one or two shot

[iron tree]

Omni is gonna pin quetz with the current pin mechanic

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message Actual testing

precise times, detailed route

thoughts?

I of course did try to be as impartial as possible

I like both playables, and did try to hinder the ptera on purpose in some stretches

less stamina, same regen, and still traveled for almost twice as long and twice as fast

[elfin night]

@viscid cave why would they need that? each omni can already deal like 600 damage with one pounce before needing to disenage to rest while the rest of the group keeps the target busy. And they have grappling to make team play more effective

The other two examples you mentioned are rather necessary to give each playable their role and capacity to pull enough weight

[viscid cave]

They would need it because it would be a crucial thing to help in the fight against large dinos, and also the omnis are very weak because they are small, or they could add more stamina to it to balance the game.

I'm having to speak through a translator because I'm Brazilian, so it may take me a while to respond.

[elfin night]

but they are already well equipped for hunting large prey. Their pounce makes them untouchable for their opponent unless they use terrain while also slowing them down and draining their stamina if they try to even walk, and their agility also makes up for their fragility, since there is very little that they cannot outmaneuver easily such as dibbles who use their slide or ceras.

And well, if you boost their stamina, then you would be allowing them to basically one shot ceras and carnos on their own since a full stamina pounce can already do exactly 1000 damage. Even if you give it a 30% boost then they could just run in and solo carnos and ceras on their own, which obviously is not balanced when all it takes is one pounce.

feel free to translate all of that, I will wait

[wanton edge]

maybe a different social buff would be better but i dont see the purpose in a strength buff when grouped. their fragility is counteracted by their maneuverability so if you're struggling to fight any of the larger lumbering animals in a group u just may need to practice movement.

[viscid cave]

The omni simply takes 30% for sub meat and cerato alone, if they increase it by at least 15% it would already help a lot to kill a diablo, but now that I've said what I had to say, tell me at least 2 buffs that the omni has if they take away the grab that it has.

[elfin night]

why would they take it away?

and honestly dibbles aren't something omnis should be messing with unless they are either very good or in a decently sized group

[viscid cave]

I'm not dying for nothing, but I realized that the omni is very weak in terms of resistance and etc, but don't you think they could at least increase the stamina? Even if his stamina is good, when he grabs someone, dino, it gets too complicated.

[wanton edge]

the stamina pool seems fine as is, i mean, if u have a competent group u can kind of relay hunts with larger creatures to wear them down gradually.

[elfin night]

you can already one shot pachies and dilos with the current stamina in a single pounce, why would omni need more

And part of that damage and huge agility are meant to be balanced out by its lack of considerable defense. Otherwise it would be good at everything

[viscid cave]

I'm not saying they would take it away, I'm asking you what would be left of the omni without grabbing it.

[elfin night]

I mean, you still have enough agility to get several bites on someone unless they are very good dibbles or ceras

sub carnos in a 1v1 are so free as an omni

same goes for adult pachies and dilos

[viscid cave]

Calm down, answering 2 people using the translator is too complicated, and if it takes me a while to answer someone, it's because I'm translating rather than answering.

But answering your question, I think it would make a LOT of sense to put this buff, especially since the Omni is a social dino, and explain to me what the point is of putting a buff on the Cerato per carcass but not putting a buff on the Omni per group?

[wanton edge]

ceratos buff is supposed to be symbolic of it being an extremely voracious eater being more aggressive in the face of food. omni's group power comes from strategy and how u and ur packmates coordinate, there doesn't need to be a mechanic to reinforce this other than the chat function and the general grouping mechanic.

[elfin night]

Because cera would get brutalized as a slow moving, not-that-large carnivore whose main job is bullying other carnivores (including packs) off their kills.

Omni one taps animals larger than itself already. It doesn’t need more damage nor maneuverability nor tankiness. Just bug fixes

[viscid cave]

Yes, the resistance is good and the stamina too, but now that Rex and Trike are coming, they should at least put a buff, right?

You guys are really good at talking, but now I understand that the omni doesn't need a buff, just a small increase in resistance.

[half widget]

it just doesnt do this lmao. i agree the stamina pool is not anywhere near the issue. but i do think omni needs a lot of work. bite cooldown being one of them, it bites as slow as deino.

and as far as stamina, it could use a reduction in run cost, maybe like 10%. but i agree that increasing the stamina pool itself is not the route of attack here, the pounces need to be a limited resource. its stamina hungry usage in other areas is the problem.

[elfin night]

I mean, pounce on full stam does 1000 damage, that puts dilo and pachy in a very uncomfortable position if you make a good ambush in the open.

Pachy is probably cooked whereas dilo might stand a chance, although small depending on the distance to the trees or water

pounce is nothing to scoff at

[iron tree]

the bite cooldown is literally fine

you're not built to face tank anyway

Omni is a hit and run playable

get some damage in and get the hell out of there

[elfin night]

I agree. Bite force just isn't really that necessary

you're better off giving one bite and getting away before they can retaliate

[iron tree]

^

[elfin night]

whereas animals like dilo need high bite speed since their ability relies on biting

and cera needs the dps

[elfin night]

and if you can trade with anything, you very likely can pin them anyway

[iron tree]

mhm

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message i don’t want a growth buff, tbh i would rather want growth nerf, it takes me barely hour an a half to grow it to full adult

[elfin night]

only one person reacted to my 40 minute experiment to prove ptera flight is great...

[worthy steeple]

i also don’t think it needs any buffs other than tail slam damage nerf revert

[elfin night]

[worthy steeple]

but honestly depends how strong or/and fast rex will be

the whole reason teno got nerfed is because carno got nerfed too and if sub rex will be heavier and faster than teno, yeah only then it will need a buff

[elfin night]

to be fair the yapping was unparalleled

[worthy steeple]

tbf i don’t know who you’re writing that for, it looks like message to community, but everything you said is welll known by the devs

[elfin night]

mostly against the pseudo ptera glazers who think it is terrible with that stam

the devs know this and have the perfect solution

[worthy steeple]

fair lol!

[half widget]

dmg pounce does maybe 900 dmg in literal perfect conditions. meaning, you have full stamina, land the first pounce, and your prey NEVER bucks. if you get bucked, thats lost damage because you have to use 5% to pounce again. if you somehow win the RNG and stay on, you still lose extra stamina which is more lost damage.

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message what
teno in particular dosen’t struggle against rex to warrant that buff

@sullen edge teno is already easy to grow compared to its peers btw, don’t see why it would need a tweak there

[half widget]

bite cooldown has nothing to do with face tanking. even with 0.0001 bite cooldown, omni cannot face tank because its made of glass. giving it the abysmal bite cooldown that it has only serves as a rate limit to its ability to perform hit and runs & utilizes its agility. hence why i didn’t suggest a bite force increase. i think it could comfortably move to be somewhere between where it is now and dilo (probably around cera would feel nice?). because as you said, it can only get so much value out of it given how squishy the playable is. the value would come almost entirely from using bites as baits, and making the use of agility more rewarding.

bugs are its biggest issue, obviously. and pin is just a boring mechanic, but thats an entirely different convo imo. i think a noticeable bite cooldown decrease and maybe a sprint cost reduction are not unreasonable changes at all.

[iron tree]

I ain't reading all that

Even so

Omni doesn't need a fast bite

[half widget]

yes it does, good discussion

[iron tree]

But why

[half widget]

high cooldown rate limits ability to hit and run

[iron tree]

Why does the animal that relies on bleeding its prey to death need a fast bite

[iron tree]

It doesn't

[wanton edge]

how if ur're not near them? a cooldown becomes irrelevant when ur're not in close proximity.

[iron tree]

Bite -> dart out

-> go for the bite again -> dart out again

[half widget]

raptor is not ranged

[half widget]

yup, which is rate limited by bite cooldown

it makes the playable clunky

[iron tree]

It doesn't

[half widget]

it does

[iron tree]

You're right

[half widget]

i know

[iron tree]

If it's any faster it wouldn't be hit and run anymore

It'd straight up be a chainsaw

My bad

[worthy steeple]

i agree, it should take at least half an hour more to grow it to fg, it’s way too easy right now.

but the buff part honestly depends on how strong rex and allo will be, if you remember the whole reason of teno nerf was because of carno nerf, teno didn’t need that damage to fight back 1.3t carno.

but if sub allo and rex will be heavier and also faster then it could get its pre nerf damage back.

[half widget]

no, because like i said above, none of that changes the fact that raptor gets 1 shot left right and center.

[iron tree]

That's why you pounce your prey

[half widget]

ok remove raptor bite

[wanton edge]

i meant u go out of range when hit and running. if ur're not staying on/near an animal throughout the entirety of the fight like say.. teno vs cera then u don't need to make sure ur're pumping out damage insanely fast. if u disengage and build a good rythm for going in/out u don't really struggle w the cooldown as omni. + u have pounce

[iron tree]

And name me one animal that can one shot utah (body shot) besides stego and deino

Dibble kills it in a combo yeah

Cera kills it with a headshot

[worthy steeple]

imo teno should grow longer and be little bit slower in its juvie-sub stage, even animation looks a little bit speeded up

[half widget]

yes, a stun lock combo is still a 1 shot

not going into semantics

[iron tree]

But omni is never truly one shot unless it's an apex

[half widget]

point being, the slightest misstep on omni means death

[iron tree]

Nah, if you've friends you can still survive

A dibble knocked me down and I would have died but she pounced the dibble and it canceled the attack and allowed me to get out of there

[iron tree]

Which is fine because omni should require at least some skill

[half widget]

yes, i agree

[iron tree]

And that's against larger prey

[half widget]

how does a bite cooldown decrease do anything but make the playable less clunky?

[iron tree]

Omni can survive off juvis

[half widget]

what is the negative?

[iron tree]

We don't need omni going full dilo mode with the ability to pounce and pin

[half widget]

its bite does hardly any damage unless you put yourself in an extremely risky position

how does that make it “full dilo mode”?

[iron tree]

It does 60 damage

[half widget]

yes, and often times thats a tail bite

[iron tree]

It's only 20 less damage than dilo's bite and it's not in dilo's weight class

But utah doesn't rely on bites

[half widget]

not the point

[iron tree]

It kinda is

We don't need omni being able to bite like a chainsaw

[half widget]

quite literally not what i asked for

[iron tree]

Omni/utah whatever

[half widget]

i did not ask for dilo bite speed

it bites like a deino right now

it should be around cera’s bite speed

[iron tree]

Deino bites just a bit slower yeah

Cera is supposed to have a fast bite speed as it needs it to apply bile

[half widget]

even if it bit like a chainsaw, you are then bottlenecked by your ability to utilize the playables agility

normal bites dont apply bacteria, do they?

[iron tree]

They do

[half widget]

i dont play cera so i may be wrong

[iron tree]

Every bite does

[half widget]

ok, dope, i still think omni should have close to cera bite speed

[iron tree]

I think it's fine

But well

That's just my opinion

[half widget]

i dont think it would be a problematic change.

[iron tree]

It would be waaaay less problematic than a stamina buff

[half widget]

i agree, and i think an increase to omni’s stamina pool would be problematic

though, i can understand reducing stamina costs of omni in areas unrelated to pounce (sprint, jump at most, alt bite cost would still be an issue to reduce imo)

[iron tree]

It'd allow it to do even more damage when pouncing

[half widget]

yes it is a direct correlation

[keen plover]

Could just yk reduce their speed to be slower than teno when similar size

Assuming they’re faster at similar size which I don’t think should even be a thing

[crimson crater]

rex is like 800KG at 70% grown though, doubt it can do much

and adult ones are slow

even if rex were to be hypothetically faster and stronger than teno, it would also affect other playables such as cera. why not just address the root problem instead of buffing everything else

[worthy steeple]

it was clearly wip

[worthy steeple]

because cera already more than overtuned and look at carno situation, cera was arguably weaker when carno was 1.8t

carno and teno got nerfed and cera got a buff

so if they add faster than teno carnivore it just makes sense to give it its old damage back

time will tell tho, i only really want tail slam damage back, i don’t care about anything else

[crimson crater]

teno is just as strong when playing it defensively, it just sucks at using its power to oppress things unlike cerato

[worthy steeple]

teno is strong in defense even one of the best id say, that’s true.

but it needing a buff really depends on how strong and capable of hunting rex and allo will be. it may receive a buff, it may not, idk what’s on devs mind

when i asked kissen, she said teno will not get any changes for now, this HT.

[crimson crater]

yea just think that buffing teno ain’t the right call here

[worthy steeple]

#isle-discussion message

oh didn’t mean to reply lol

[worthy steeple]

yeah as i said i really only want the tail slam damage back, 100 is painful

[crimson crater]

tru

[crystal stream]

I heard something about reducing the time carno and cera take to get up

Ngl I think carno takes way to long to get up for something that takes 4 kicks to die to a teno

[topaz elm]

@steep gazelle does carno get stunned when it charges tenonto?
ive been charged by carnos as a fully grown tenonto and they didnt stun themselves

[steep gazelle]

Yes, just attacking between the beginning and middle of Tenonto's tail with the charge will stun Carno. (Using the charge on the tip of the tail does not stun Carno, but it also does not cause any damage to Tenonto)

[topaz elm]

oh so attacking the stiffest part of tenonto stuns carno

I dont really see whats wrong with that to be honest

[cosmic pelican]

Teno gets an extra stability modifier while kicking and tail slamming (and a bit after the attack finishes too), which makes it technically heavier than 1.9T, so carno stuns itself if it tries to charge any part of its body.

[topaz elm]

I feel like stego could use that

especially with trike and rex

[steep gazelle]

Because this gives the tenonto a completely unfair advantage. He can already knock Carno down with his tail and stun him with his kick, so it only takes 4 kicks to the head to kill a Carno.

Carnos currently has difficulty hunting Tenontos precisely because of this.

[topaz elm]

but carno can also completely avoid this by targetting the front and using bites instead of charges

[steep gazelle]

Are you okay with not being able to use your main weapon on something that weighs just 300kg more?

[topaz elm]

carno's biteforce is 150 no?

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[topaz elm]

150 damage + bleed - the chance to stun myself and take near lethal damage

yeah im okay with that

[cosmic pelican]

Carno can bleed out from 2 kicks if the teno doesnt let it rest, 4 is just overkill lol

[steep gazelle]

A tenonto should never be able to fight well in open field against 2-3 Carnos, but with this he can

[topaz elm]

the same way I use bites instead of pounce on omni when taking on large prey
its more risky but it also prevents a lot of issues relating to the ability

[steep gazelle]

4 is to finish the Carno, from green life to death

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah ik, just saying it can already die from 2

[steep gazelle]

With the bleed resistance buff that Carno had in the hord, is this now less bad?

[crystal stream]

Not that stun I mean from kicks or tail slams

Idk care abt the charge stun

It’s not even that bad

The tail slam takes so long to get up by the time your up you’ve lost the fight and that from like one slam while cera can tank 3 take a kick and walk it off

[steep gazelle]

The omni pounce is very different from the Carno charge, there is no comparison between them

[topaz elm]

the situational use of them is the main point im trying to bring up

[crystal stream]

Only way I see that comparison working is if you are fighting Mia with carno

[topaz elm]

if i carelessly use either Im likely to die

[crystal stream]

Hitting a teno with a charge on csrno is easy it’s jst not getting hit in the process and losing the fight immediately is a diff story

[steep gazelle]

This advantage that the tenonto had was good against the old 1.8t Carno, but against the current Carno it only gives the tenonto an additional advantage over the Carno...

Tenontos should not be unbeatable for Carnos, especially in open field. Not that this makes the tenonto unhuntable, but it makes it very difficult, being necessary to know how to play very well while the teno just has to stand still.

[crystal stream]

Fr I rlly wish they would’ve have nerfed carno

Top ten most unnecessary nerfs of all time

[steep gazelle]

Are you forgetting about the troodon juv speed reduction? Xd

Maia too

[crystal stream]

Oh yeah nvm I forgot about that lol

Carno still got done dirty

For no reason either

[steep gazelle]

Honestly, it seems like the devs hate Carno

[crystal stream]

There main purpose of it was to make it a better small game hunter but the thing was always good at hunting small game

[steep gazelle]

The only advantage that Carno has is speed, while Cerato only lacks speed, but has everything else.

[crystal stream]

Yeah also old carno made fights with it seem way more dimamic and fun to watch

[steep gazelle]

Unfortunately it was nerfed because cerato players were crying about being killed

[crystal stream]

That’s the only problem with prenerf carno is that it destroyed ceras

[steep gazelle]

Carno is currently not bad against Ceratos, but has a lot of difficulty

[crystal stream]

Ceras are op right now because of the nerf I feel like

Carno rn has to try so hard to take anything even slightly larger than it solo

Meanwhile a scav can take on basically the entire roster

[steep gazelle]

The biggest problem with Cerato is his vomiting, before he received his buff in the night vision hordtest he was completely fine and fair

[crystal stream]

I jst rlly hope carno gets love because rn it feels so unassarrely weak

[steep gazelle]

Well, he received 3 buffs in this hordtest (which I consider just adjustments that should have been made right after he received his nerf)

[topaz elm]

@azure pebble the primary use of maia's stun attack is for maia to escape
its usually only good for offensive when your attacker is close to you, so you can shove them then stomp

however because of how much weight maia can bulldoze, its essentially meant to clear a path for maia to run through, think of it like a truck in football

[crystal stream]

Buffs are cool but I still need old carno back

lol

[topaz elm]

its more like a "get out of the way or i will make you get out of the way" while running

[steep gazelle]

Me too. The old Carno was balanced, you could hunt smaller dinos but it wasn't bad for hunting some bigger ones either. It spent a good amount of stam on the charge and still had a pretty big cooldown.

[azure pebble]

I don’t see how it’s supposed to be used as an escape at all, it basically has the same functionality as Carnos charge with less damage, and Carnos charge does far more damage anyway.

So it shouldn’t use that much stam

[crystal stream]

Unfortunately the devs will probably never change because “it’s supposed to be a small game hunter” (even tho carno could always hunt small game)

[topaz elm]

how do you not see the function?
the weight for maia's body slam (running shove) is around 2.5 tons which is allo's weight
the idea is that a running maia is very hard to stop once its in motion and maia doesn't have great maneuverability while bipedal

So instead of making maia have to swerve and dodge to avoid its predators, if you get in the way of a fleeing maia, you will be trucked and thrown to the ground while maia can continue to sprint and create distance

the offensive purpose of the attack is primarily for small predators, getting an omni or dilo on the ground for a better stun
the stomp already has the ability to stun carno, cera, diablo, teno so you really should just learn how to time your stomp

plus you can go from running directly into a stomp

[azure pebble]

Why would the Maia be fleeing directly towards the opponent. And I’ve also never seen anyone use the attack that way, if the Maia wanted to flee it would just leave in the opposite direction so the attack should be used for fighting

[steep gazelle]

The servers after Carno was nerfed were completely infested with Cerato without anything that can hunt them properly, that's what irritates me the most. The devs simply don't do anything about how op cerato is now

[topaz elm]

ambushes
the primary predator of maia is allo which is an ambush pack hunter, if they set up an ambush in a tight area then what do you do? you charge straight through him

[crystal stream]

lol and they nerfed the only thing that could keep the population down

[topaz elm]

lets use an example like highlands canyon, if theres two allos behind you and a third in front of you, you just knock through the guy ahead of you to freedom

[crystal stream]

And for some reason it seems every YouTuber seems to love new carno

For whatever reasons

[azure pebble]

No that still makes sense and allo isn’t ingame yet anyway, there are almost no areas on a map where you would be closed into a corner either

[azure pebble]

That’s just about the only location that’s possible

[topaz elm]

alright well then you dont know how to play maia im sorry but you dont?
you just dont understand the kit then

[azure pebble]

Also why knock it instead of just running

[topaz elm]

the shove isnt supposed to be your primary attack it really should be used sparringly

[topaz elm]

allo can grab you, if you charge straight on he cant grab your face and you bulldoze him
1 allo would slow maia enough for the other 2 to grab hold

[azure pebble]

Well clearly you haven’t ever played Maia because neither me nor anyone I’ve ever seen has been in that scenario, nor have I ever even seen someone stuck in that canyon with a proper ambush, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t leave,
It’s such a niche area of use which makes no sense

[topaz elm]

the argument they arent even in the game yet is flawed because creatures like diablo, stego, deino and omni have all been buffed for future additions

[topaz elm]

I just used one example, the whole point is theres someone in front of you, you dont have time or space to swerve, you go straight through

thats the bare bones explanation

[azure pebble]

Again, there are incredibly few scenarios where a Maia would need to do that, it’s very rare for a fast animal like Maia to be fully cornered

[topaz elm]

you still arent getting the point
maia's predators are ambushers, you arent going to be cornered, they are going to jump in front of you and give you 2 seconds to react
thats why the shove can knock them over

it does what like 50 damage? its not supposed to be your damage dealer, at most its a combo tool

[azure pebble]

That shouldn’t be the only use of the attack

[topaz elm]

yeah it isnt the only use i gave you the other uses

thats why maia's shove changes between walking and running

walking and standing still is for defense against small predators, knock them over to get a clean stun on them

running is for escaping predators, fully knock them over/stun them to create distance and avoid getting hit

[azure pebble]

That’s exactly what I’m saying, it’s a combo tool where you hit it then stomp it, I’m saying it’s not a precise attack and it’s easy to miss, and if you don’t miss you still keep moving about 5 metered away from the target so you can’t hit it again

[topaz elm]

you are so close

if you dont miss you end up 5 meters away from the target
the whole point is to stun them and create distance

when using it while running

[azure pebble]

It’s far less effective against small things, 1. Maia rears up on its hind legs so it doesn’t have a far down hit box and 2. Small things are agile enough to not go directly in front of Maia where it’s close enough to hit

[topaz elm]

if you wanted to stun them and deal damage, just learn to hit your stomp

[topaz elm]

thats why maia is getting more stunning attacks

its alt attacks can stun, all the stomps can stun

[azure pebble]

No you are so close to getting it, you said it’s a combo tool then you said it’s for running? How does that make sense

[topaz elm]

Its a combo tool when playing defensively and walking

its a running tool when running

[azure pebble]

That’s what I’m saying, alt attacks are for small things not the shove which is what you said

[topaz elm]

if you want to fight someone you walk, stun stomp

if you want to flee and someone is in your path, you run, body slam and keep running

there isnt much overlap there since they are two different moves on the same keybind

its easy to get confused

[azure pebble]

Maia rarely runs away like that, it’s used in a very similar way to Carnos charge where you charge something to cause a stun then stomp it

[topaz elm]

just because people rarely use it like than doesnt mean its the intended purpose
its an addition planned for a greater purpose

like stego's powerswing
omni's different pounces
deino's water vs land grab

once allo is introduced, then it will be used for its greater purpose
just like cerato's charge bite

[azure pebble]

What I’m saying is that running away is not the attacks ‘greater purpose’

[topaz elm]

and like you said its not very good at charging something and stomping is it? you end up being 5 meters away
carno's charge is so fundamentally different than maia's bodyslam

[topaz elm]

its literally in the concept art

[azure pebble]

Obviously it’s different but even you said it’s meant to be a combo attack

[topaz elm]

it slams into a cerato and looks the opposite way to keep on running

[topaz elm]

when walking

[azure pebble]

No it’s not, that’s not showing running away that’s showing the attack itself

[azure pebble]

Walking is not fast enough to hit anything, most creatures are way too agile to be hit by the attack if the Maia is walking

[topaz elm]

its not aggressively attacking the cerato, its using the escape ability to adequately escape cerato by stunning it

if it were an attack, we'd see maia stun then stomp the cerato

[azure pebble]

There is nothing there suggesting an escape.

It’s a single image there’s no second one, it only shows the attack

[topaz elm]

the maia is literally looking the otherway while continuing to run, my interpretation is that maia is using this to nullify cerato as an attacker and creating distance

[azure pebble]

That’s what the attack looks like. It’s a shoulder barge so the Maia moves it’s head, that’s what it looks like ingame

[topaz elm]

which is why its a defensive combo
you use your environment and stun things that get too greedy, cliff edges, water, mud pits, etc

[azure pebble]

It’s not looking away it’s shoulder barging

[topaz elm]

but the shoulder barge is used to escape

thats why it hits slightly behind maia and to either direction

[azure pebble]

Why?

[topaz elm]

you can hit something running along your thigh and that proximity
so maia can hit something on it's side or kind of behind it so that it can keep running

wouldnt it be always in front of maia if it were offensive?

[azure pebble]

It’s the shoulder not the thigh, it’s shown running and hitting something with its shoulder which is in front on an angle

[azure pebble]

That’s so that the Maia doesn’t have to be directly in front of it, ingame if you lean your screen to the right the attack shoved to the right

[topaz elm]

im talking about in game
when doing the bash, maia's arms go slightly behind the shoulder and almost reach to the thigh, giving it the capability of hitting stuff slightly behind it

its like a shove to get someone off your flank

[azure pebble]

That’s not what happens, the arms don’t attack in the shoulder barge at all

[topaz elm]

this is pointless

nvm

[azure pebble]

Exactly

[topaz elm]

if you dont know how to play maia thats not my problem

[azure pebble]

See? Makes no sense for it would be to escape

[azure pebble]

Clearly you have never even played Maia, watch anyone play it and they never use it like that

[topaz elm]

im not going to keep arguing with someone who is blatantly wrong

[azure pebble]

Well I’m not either, you’re blatantly wrong

[topaz elm]

just because they dont use it doesnt mean thats not an intended purpose

devs add things and people use them as they see them to be used

the intended purpose is different from the player's preceived purpose

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah, using shove like that is just a waste of stamina, anything you can stun with shove, you can also easily shrug off a hit from.

[azure pebble]

You literally just said it has a greater purpose you can’t now use this argument

[topaz elm]

how?

the devs put something in, players use it wrong, are the devs wrong because you cant see their vision?

[azure pebble]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[topaz elm]

thats not an answer that just circles back to my original point

which is that maia's bodyslam is used as an escape from allo and its more dangerous predators

[azure pebble]

You switched sides completely, first you said it has a greater purpose to fight allo, now you’re saying the devs make the attack without a purpose for the players to use

[topaz elm]

when did i say the devs make an attack without a purpose?

the developers have an intended use in mind for attacks, and players using it incorrectly does not invalidate the intended use of an attack

[azure pebble]

Who are you to say everyone else is using the attack incorrectly, literally everyone uses the attack to fight not run

[cosmic pelican]

Is it really "incorrect use" though when the devs clearly didnt do anything about it?

Shove has been used as an offensive combo tool ever since maia was a thing

[azure pebble]

Exactly this

[topaz elm]

they arent going to lecture us on how to do something
its a survival game, unless the concept is completely alien they wont tell you what to do

you get a moveset that they tailored for a dinosaur and you must use it how you see fit

[cosmic pelican]

Maia received multiple balance changes, none of which affected how shove was used offensively

[topaz elm]

the way you use it does not interfere with how the devs had the primary use being

[topaz elm]

just because everyone does something doesnt mean its right, i feel like a parent saying that because its literally if everyone jumped off a bridge would you do too

[cosmic pelican]

Why lecture us? No need for that. If the devs wanted to have clear limitations for shove's purpose they couldve gave it one by now. Like how carnos charge works for example.

[azure pebble]

How do you specifically know then how it’s supposed to work, and as Mr.troodon said it’s had balance changes which all support the attack being used offensively

[topaz elm]

you missed the entire point i made

im not saying you cant use shove as an offensive tool, I do it all the time because theres not really a need for its intended use

the stamina cost currently is put in place as a balance for creatures like allo, which is why it has a greater purpose in mind

[worthy steeple]

hm that would be amazing tbh.. i don’t like maia being able to hunt and stun tenos and ceras

[topaz elm]

the intended use and the player use will more closely allign when the need arises

allo

[cosmic pelican]

The more hourst I pump into maia, the more I realise good tenos cant be fought with it

[azure pebble]

Why would the stam drain be for allo, how would that balance anything to do with allo, if you’re suggesting that the attack is to prevent the lunge attack it wouldn’t need such a high stam drain anyway

[cosmic pelican]

And if youre outnumbered, swim away or go into a forest

No amount of maias is killing anything in a forest

[azure pebble]

It’s like tenos tail attack countering the carno charge, that doesn’t make tenos tail attack cost 5% stam because of one specific use

[worthy steeple]

hm.. idk about that, i fought few decent maias who got me to red health. can’t imagine how strong maias are after ht buff

[cosmic pelican]

Also why would a maia run away from the allo if it already stunned it? Use the opportunity to just stomp the living duck out of it.

[topaz elm]

its in a sweet spot so if maia misses it uses a chunk of its stamina and allows allo to get an easier grapple
if maia hits it, it uses 5% stamina and allo is knocked to the ground
maia can use this knock over to run and create distance and what for maia would be 10% of its stamina would be maybe 30% for allo

its purpose is to close or increase distance

[topaz elm]

if you slow down allo can grab you lol?

[worthy steeple]

well yeah i can possibly swim or run away, but i just don’t like the maia dominance, like once maia showed up its time to leave

[topaz elm]

and allos hunt in groups so two allos bring you to the ground

once one grabs you its pretty much over

[cosmic pelican]

Nah, unless were talking teeny weeny sub maias, in which case shove wont even stun the allo

[topaz elm]

shove wont, body slam will

[cosmic pelican]

They work the same

Same dmg, same cc threshold

The only difference is when you look forward while running full speed. That shove can knock over ceras.

[crystal stream]

Guys look at my recent post on the feedback discussions so I can get some feedback

[topaz elm]

which is exactly what i said

thats the body slam

maia puts all of its weight to shove predators over

[cosmic pelican]

If its an ambush you cant get the speed required to perform it

And it still wont knock over the allo, only stun it

[topaz elm]

im trying to use a coordinate ambush as the example

[azure pebble]

I would say that the devs are trying to turn carno into a small game hunter, so it’s not supposed to hunt anything bigger than dilo

Ofcourse it should fight decently against things like teno and cera but it is being changed to hunt small game

Many people don’t like the carno changes but I assume they’re intentional

[topaz elm]

allos chase you to a hidden allo, the hidden allo jumps out and grabs you, the others pile on once you cant run away

the frontal bodyslam if timed correctly would let you knock over the allo, preventing the grab and giving maia the escape

[crystal stream]

But Carno was always small game hunter making it even more of one jst seems like a unnecessary advantage

And plus just makes it feel buggy

And unfun to fight against

[topaz elm]

I love looking at the concepts and applying what we know now
power swing was teased day 1

[cosmic pelican]

Dude the front shove literally never will knock over an allo, it cant even knock over a teno. 😭

[azure pebble]

Not really, Carnos used to be able to hunt tenos and ceras far too easlily, as you said now it can only really hunt things smaller than dilo

[cosmic pelican]

What youre thinking of literally doesnt exist

[topaz elm]

what kind of maia are you playing? I can knock over teno am I insane?

[crystal stream]

Carnos matchup between teno was fair I will atmit I think ceras matchup was a little unfair

[cosmic pelican]

Not a fg teno then

[topaz elm]

I feel insane

[azure pebble]

You can stun a teno you can’t knock it over

Like it stops for a second but it doesn’t fall over onto the ground

[cosmic pelican]

Anyways shove, and especially the frontal shove, is very clearly an offensive attack.

[topaz elm]

to each his own

i use it defensively

[cosmic pelican]

Exactly the same way dibbles running knock over is

[topaz elm]

thats different since diablo can stun x2 its size

[cosmic pelican]

🥔 👍

[cosmic pelican]

CC is different yeah, but literally same use

[topaz elm]

diablo is also a more offensively based creature overall

[cosmic pelican]

You run forward, knock something out of your way, then combo

[topaz elm]

wish they would fix diablo's hitbox

did they in the hordetest? feels the same

[cosmic pelican]

Doubt

[azure pebble]

I heated someone complained to dondi about it on a video interview and I think he said he’d look into it but it might just be latency

[worthy steeple]

how in a world do you use shove defensively😭😭😭

[topaz elm]

like an "ew get off me"

[worthy steeple]

well best defense is offense i guess

[topaz elm]

when im trying to run away and people get in my way I just bulldoze them and keep running

[worthy steeple]

lol fair i guess

[warm flax]

Any thoughts on whether a trike can deal full damage to a deino while swimming?
I know that an FG trike is truly an apex, but dealing full damage while it is swimming and chasing a deino around feels super weird to me.
Yeah, sure, in real life elephants often drag Nile crocs and stomp them to death, but you don't see them attacking crocs when they're in deep water where the elephant has nowhere to stand

[iron tree]

Deino can always choose not to engage

Also, deinosuchus is not a crocodile

[warm flax]

yeah and a semi apex with 1hr30min hunger bar duration
only reliable food sources are it's own kind,and basically 0 night vision
no wonder it goes extinct

[iron tree]

It doesn't

Deino is receiving kit adjustments soon anyway

And 1 and a half hour is a long time

I always use efficient digestion to buy some more time

[minor axle]

Actually deinosuchus did go extinct

[elfin night]

@worn sentinel carno received a buff in the hordetest already

[worn sentinel]

YOURE LYING

[elfin night]

they did

[worn sentinel]

BRO DONT PLAY ME

https://tenor.com/view/jalen-hurts-jalen-hurts-meek-mill-i-used-to-pray-for-times-like-this-gif-13709870523385828441

[elfin night]

one hour less of growth, more running stam

and more bleed res

so now it is in a pretty solid spot

[worn sentinel]

Also I fw the profile picture

[elfin night]

thx

yours is rad too

[warm flax]

finally adding bleed resist to a creature which its whole strat is to run around and looking for window to ram

[worn sentinel]

Ikr for smth that’s meant to run it can run for as long as a fetus

@elfin night also where did it say Carno got a buff ? Am I blind or no patch notes

[elfin night]

hordetest

where people are testing trike. It's a public branch with a beta you select on steam like evrima

[worn sentinel]

Ain’t there usually patch notes for hordetest tho

[elfin night]

not really

[worn sentinel]

Damn

[sacred moat]

@elfin night I sincerely disagree with your statement about the pteranodon. Everything is fine in your experiment, except that at the moment the journey you have demonstrated will end in starvation or death after dehydration. If any other predatory dinosaur overcomes this distance and is still able to move fast enough at the end of the journey, then the pteranodon will simply die. He won't be able to find food, because turtles on most of the EU servers I played on may not appear for hours, not to mention frogs, fish, and others. In this case, pteranodon will die faster than any other predator that has just appeared, only because death from hunger or thirst is faster due to its very low health. The gameplay on each dinosaur is unique in its own way, and the pteranodon is just a lump of pain among all other predators - it learns very hard to drink salt water, look for food, water. With the abundance of herrerasaurs and other predators on the island, almost any food item is a gift to him. The only natural and more affordable food for him is fish, which he often lacks the stamina to find.

I've played on the pteranodon for over 400 hours now, and I can say that I've had quite a few moments when, after flying through the entire river system, I haven't found a single spawn of fish or turtles, and for me this is already a good indicator that the endurance of the pteranodon requires improvements.

[dusky surge]

goodness

[elfin night]

Brother, I did this to prove that literally no one can catch up to it

A galli could run for literally over 15 minutes and still travel half of the distance the ptera did

It was done to prove how it is not unreasonable to regen your stam like a galli when you are so much faster and can last for much longer

I flew past all of the hotspots and also did hear so much fish in the delta, and could see a few turtles in the west access beach but I simply ignored them and kept moving

[sacred moat]

Galli can eat grass bro

Ptera carni

[elfin night]

Yeah, what’s the matter?

Do you think that a galli, if persistent enough, could eventually catch up to a ptera and kill it?

[sacred moat]

Such a distance is death for Ptera without everything, for Gali it's just an excuse to take a break.

[elfin night]

I am having a hard time understanding what you’re saying, a juvenile galli with a 17 minute stam only traveled half of what a fresh spawn ptera could, and I could have stopped to eat in many occasions but simply refused to

[sacred moat]

I remember the days when all the bushes were kicked with gallimimuses on Spiro

[elfin night]

There was nothing stopping me from pecking a taco in the coastal sanctuary or drinking by the west access pond or the swamp

It is hilarious because, literally, a galli could start chasing a ptera with 30% stam in water access and follow it down the river delta until the swamp

The ptera would literally have enough time to go for a drink, rest to recover all of its stam and then keep flying lmao

[sacred moat]

I'm talking about the expediency of moving around the map with a stamina like pter's in the first place. For gally, even such a high speed does not mean anything bad, he literally can pluck frogs from rivers, eat grass and drink water quickly running away from it. You are literally tied up for a pteranodon and are not allowed to go beyond the prepared gameplay of constantly monitoring bodies of water.

[elfin night]

But you can

[sacred moat]

Nothing sounds incomplete

[sacred moat]

For five minutes until I start looking for a body of water? To do this, I believe that ptera's endurance needs to be improved so that he has more opportunities to behave frivolously, without thinking about the fact that while studying the map he may fly too far and not be able to return until he dies of hunger.

[elfin night]

Not only ptera is meant to stick close to the water (which that is another argument), but you can also go into land to hunt other things without much issue such as juveniles or even getting into a sanctuary since many fresh spawns are fair game even in land

Also ptera being more terrestrial with the rework (and I argue in my feedback that is all Ptera needs) would allow it to be more free and go wherever it wants since most of the map is a dense jungle where flying can be risky unless you go above the canopy

[sacred moat]

Endurance greatly limits the range of movement, and if it weren't so acute, the developers wouldn't have introduced the air currents that can now be seen on the hordtests.

[elfin night]

Ptera thirst and hunger bars drain in like 45 minutes and all you need is like 4-5 minutes to move from west access all the way down to south plains

Dunno how is it really that limited

[sacred moat]

The pteronadon must fly and not run for most of the game (

[elfin night]

If you fly like a bird, then yeah it limits you a lot, but considering you can normally remain in the air for like 10 minutes, it is not unreasonable to have that regen

[elfin night]

I know, but making it not helpless in land will make them less dependent on flight to do literally anything which would solve the issue of having to take off very often

And on top of that you would be able to move on the ground to a good elevated spot to take off and therefore be more stamina efficient

It is an indirect yet effective way to solve the problem without touching something that really isn’t wrong

[sacred moat]

Everything is fine in what you're saying, except for the herrerasaurs

[elfin night]

What’s the problem with herrera?

It barely is a problem unless you have negative stamina management and are very noisy

[sacred moat]

But I still think that 10 break-ins a day is absurd.

[sacred moat]

almost all high points are favored by them, and the bird takes an incredibly long time to get up from a sitting position. It's death for any bird to miss a Herrerasaur 50 meters away.

[elfin night]

It’s on the ptera for being unaware then

Nothing is stopping you from hiding in the jungle when regaining stam or in a place where sneaking up is impossible like a tall rock wall

Herras won’t be camping any place, they’re always sitting at the same spots especially in hotspots unless they’re very good at the game

[sacred moat]

and it's not just about the speed of ascent. You know that it can easily take more than an hour to build a nest for a pteranodon?

[elfin night]

Don’t build it near herras then

Put it in places they would never go

[sacred moat]

This automatically means not settling by the water, and here again the problem of insufficient endurance for constant long-distance breaks comes out.

[elfin night]

I’ve seen ptera families having no trouble nesting like 500-1000 meters away from their nearest water source and they do quite nicely

Even the juveniles would have no problem once they can fish

[sacred moat]

if she doesn't die sooner because the mechanics of the flight are strange (almost one hundred percent of the players who play with me don't understand how to fly correctly)

[elfin night]

Their problem

[sacred moat]

The game punishes your stamina for literally any small deviation in the angle of ascent, and when you try to explain it to others, they don't always understand it.

[elfin night]

Their problem

Why is that an issue with the playable?

They can learn to use ptera semi decently and become practically immortal

[sacred moat]

because it's easier to adjust the game to new players on it than to give all the beginners a tutorial. Right now there are no learning mechanics, and if the ground controls are intuitive, then with pteranods it happens so that players simply do not play for them. They don't play because it's weak, but primarily because of problems with endurance and lack of understanding of its mechanics.

[sacred moat]

It's more like a fairy tale than reality.

[elfin night]

well...skill issue

not everything has to cater to everyone. UI will probably tell them the basics and then people can choose to become better at a skillful playable or go back to omniraptor or dilophosaurus

all up to them

[pale token]

These dudes literally dont play ptera, and its obv from the comments. They act like every person that plays ptera just seeing how long they can glide for, while doing nothing else. I like to actually play the game as ptera, pick off healing dinos, (killed a cera today), pick off baby deinos at water access, go fishing, catch turtles......when you actually do more with ptera than just...."let me see how far i can glide", you find out pretty quickly, the stam system for him is bunk.

The changing elevation and the adjustments in altitude you need to make as elevation rises, is what kills me. There is no "skill" when the elevation goes from 10m to 500m as you are flying over terrain and have to climb. Even feathering up, not using space bar, you run out of stam super quick.

[maiden ginkgo]

@pale token wrt timers on dino's, what would you propose instead?

It's not a solution that would be mandatory but an option like the spawn location timer.

I can just see officials 100/100 T-Rex players lols.

[sacred moat]

ab agree

[elfin night]

he blocked me for having a take he didn't agree with

and honestly if you can remain in the air without constantly gliding down for 10 minutes, it is perfectly fine to do anything else besides traveling

I cared to spend 40 minutes testing it on roughly equal conditions with the fastest and most stamina efficient terrestrial animal in the game when it comes to traveling but

[elfin night]

LMAO

[elfin night]

I mean, isn't that very much going to happen anyway?

does this guy think teno is gonna trade with rex with its super pwoerful 100 damage tail slam?

[wanton edge]

yes from the crush ability but the suggestion is so weirdly specific 😭

[elfin night]

true

lmao...

😭

guess using a timer and a competitor in a race aint enough

[topaz elm]

Rex will probably one shot teno

I don’t really have a problem with that either

[sleek sierra]

#balance-feedback-discussion message
Actually, I main ptera, and at least 60% of all my hours in game are as a ptera, and I don't agree with your take here. You're right that people seem to think gliding is all ptera can be measured by and that playing in the way you described is how it should be rated, but to me it does things just fine. The part though that I think your comment is missing is that you still have to be selective in when you do these things. Much like a pachy wouldn't want to take on a 4 pack of carnos while in a wide open field, nor should a ptera look for fights that are filled with elevation changes of 500m. The skill is very much found in where you choose to use your stamina. If you try to use it where the elevation change is drastic, that is a failure on your part. If you try to kill a fg stego and end up having to watch it walk away while you rest, that's on you, you shouldn't expect to kill many big things anymore than a raptor should expect to 1v1 kill a trike. So using your stamina on these things, knowing that is your most precious resource, is where the real skill is found. That and flying in a way to uses it the most efficiently.

I also think the timer for regaining stamina should remain long also. If you could rest for 30 seconds and go again for another 8-10 minutes pecking away at someone, then there are very few dinos you couldn't kill. And as much as I love ptera, it shouldn't be something that is regularly picking off large dinos by pecking them nonstop without ever having to take a significant break. People underestimate the amount of effort it takes a flying animal to maintain or gain altitude and ptera is one of the largest animals to ever fly. Maneuverability and acceleration would not have been its strong suits and should not be in game either.

The changes ptera actually needs is a better system of allowing it to grab smaller prey, like a smaller troodon, or a hypsi or fresh spawn raptor without having to land. A perfect hit should grab those and allow you to fly off with them, either as dead bodies, or something you have to drop to kill. Flying with a grabbed dino should also drain your stamina like dragging a body does for other carnivores. Beyond that it just needs more small dinos to be more common among players. It's real issue in all this is that it's a small prey hunter in a game filled with dibbles and ceras. Those should not be what you're expecting to battle as a ptera.

[steep otter]

yeah its a no brainer

teno is 8 times smaller