balance-feedback-discussion

[acoustic spear]

https://prnt.sc/tbwlxZrwTqjX

but see it i dont see anything wrong here

[viscid mica]

Now I’m confused

[worthy steeple]

can’t say the wrong word for the poop

[viscid mica]

Ah yes no curse words

[acoustic spear]

never mind

[elfin night]

I am trying to make a spreadsheet for a next suggestion in regards to a problem both legacy and evrima have with growth times and stat gain

Since I am 110% sure that we have the same problem as with apexes being objectively more worth your time in legacy than everything else

And so the smaller critters just have to take an L in evrima

[dusky surge]

only when FULLY charged you have time to attack while charging

[worthy steeple]

ah fair

[viscid mica]

I personally think your objectively wrong for legacy but go on

[dusky surge]

if you keep trying to spam RMB, it will not work. you'll just look like an idiot

[viscid mica]

Still over all a ton of super strong buffs for a minor debuff that as shown but the fact omni dilo and carno get hit by it all the time speed means nothing

[dusky surge]

i feel you're massively overstating how powerful the vomit thing is. Current cera can have you vomit in less time by just biting you

[elfin night]

Mathematically, the stat gain of apexes per minute when compared to smaller dinosaurs of similar build (such as allo and giga or dibble and trike) proves that apexes have a much better average gain

There’s no interpretation about it

Lemme pull out the numbers

[viscid mica]

Currently if your omni and get hit by a charge bite and vomit you instantly die or barely make it away

[viscid mica]

I mean I dunno the only apex in game rn is deino and deino barely hits 2T before 70% when it suddenly sky rockets

[elfin night]

(I know this is for legacy but it is to show the problem)

Allosaurus: 180 minutes, 2800kg, 2800hp and 300N

Average: 15,55 hp, 15,55 kg and 1,66 N per minute

Giganotosaurus: 390 minutes 6500kg, 6000hp, 700N

Average: 16,66 kg, 15,38 hp and 1,79 N per minute

And this is the mildest example

Maybe not the best to show

[elfin night]

Stego is an apex too, and while I agree that deino early game size isn’t that good, it still would prove itself to be so much more worth your time than the others if the playable was actually balanced

And tbh this is a problem for all playables

[viscid mica]

Maybe strength wise but not weight wise

[viscid mica]

I severely disagree

Envirma combat is 1D like legacy

It’s extremely 3D as everything has different techniques and tactics to combat

[elfin night]

My gripe here is that bigger=better when all playables should matter

Try comparing anything with a similar role and build with very different size and the disparity becomes apparent

As in

The bigger stuff is just more worth your time

[viscid mica]

They aren’t even meant to be fighting the same stuff

Not solo at least

[elfin night]

They have vastly better stat gains per minute and also with a higher threshold

The problem is that one is weaker, it is more about the growth time ratios

[viscid mica]

They are VASTLY bigger

[elfin night]

Dude

[viscid mica]

They play completely differently

[elfin night]

The problem isn’t that one is bigger than the other or one wouldn’t win a fight, it is that they growth times aren’t equally fair

Apexes and mid tiers just seem to be so much more worth your time for optimal stats

[viscid mica]

Tbh imo omni is the best over all carni rn

Fast grow you can punch up easily

Good map travel

Seems pretty worth it to me

I’d call the 6 hour croc grind where 4/6 are spent being useless pretty not worth it

[viscid mica]

They aren’t gonna be

A apex compared to a small is like comparing a throwing knife’s range to a Timberwolf (sniper)

[elfin night]

(Both on total growth time without accounting to diet and accounting for averages)

Dibble: 7,14kg and 0,65N per minute

Pachy: 2,63kg and 0.16N per minute

Teno: 5,51kg and 0,13N/0,86N per minute

Stego: 10kg and 0,08N/3,33N per minute

Notice the pattern?

[viscid mica]

Those actually seem really good in the smaller favour

Considering you seem to have ignored maximum size

And time to grow to that max

My guy your math

Just proves they are actually equal

[elfin night]

It’s okay for things to have a higher maximum size

[viscid mica]

Bruh moment

[elfin night]

Problem here, again, is how the growth time is far from fair for the smaller ones

[viscid mica]

1.30 on average for pachy

2.3 or less for dibble

1.45ish teno

[elfin night]

What?

[viscid mica]

5 stego

[viscid mica]

Average hour time to grow to FG

Your own math is mathing against you rn

Like hard core mathing against you

This is just like that flat earther documentary that proved the earth is round my god

[elfin night]

What are you talking about bro 😭

I showed you the numbers of how it is simply more efficient and worth it to grow something bigger

[elfin night]

And how is that the “average” time? What formula are you even using?

They are made up bro

[viscid mica]

Between maximized diet vs realistic best diet

Aka on average of my 10+ grows of almost all the playables noted how long it take to grow

[elfin night]

So you’re sort of guessing while also using anecdotal evidence…

And the saddest part is that those growth times you are proposing still make huge disparities after all

dibble 60 minutes more than Pachy

2500kg and 245N on base attack more

[viscid mica]

Pachy gets the D for like 100 reasons bad example piece

Legit weakest Dino to size ratio rn

[crimson crater]

overall or dmg wise?

[viscid mica]

Overall

[cosmic pelican]

Solo pachy sucks 😦

[viscid mica]

It’s slower than it should be fracture sucks and jsut gets chugged by the whole roaster if it’s a good omni or dilo they clean you out

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy in herds though...

[elfin night]

Alright, we pulled the Pachy bad card, now teno then

15,2kg and 0,33/2,3N vs 20kg and 1,83N

[viscid mica]

The strongest and most balanced Dino in the game rn

Where the best teno can even beat a dibble

Try again

[elfin night]

With those times you proposed which do not have to adhere to reality at all + it is unfair to compare them with different diets

[elfin night]

What am I supposed to do with this information?

[viscid mica]

Those times made up of a average between over 10+ grows? Ya ok

[weary dust]

Teno maybe does too much bleed with its kick but even then its the most balanced bar none

[elfin night]

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence

And if we’re gonna put them in different situations with their diets, what stops a dibble from theoretically growing in 2 hours and teno in a little more than that?

Better to use the exact same diet standards for everyone for more objectivity

[viscid mica]

Nothing theoretically you can grow a dibble in 1.30 and a teno in .40 minutes but that would require you to maintain a 300% diet the entire time which isn’t possible the best you can usually manage for teno is 140ish and dibble 115 as dibble stomach empties slowly I value lived experience over theoretical numbers that you are you using thou

Theoretically you can grow a deino in like an hour or some crazy number same with every if you could maintain 300%

[analog mirage]

Though that would never realistically happen

So you take an average

[viscid mica]

I thought my numbers where pretty fair on average

[viscid mica]

Here salty these

Tbh a hour and a half is actually kinda long

You can hammer out like a hour if you keep moving

Longest time in sanctuary

[analog mirage]

Yeah

I was talking about growing dibbles in 1 hour 30, or Teno in 40 min

[weary dust]

So how we all feelin about monolophosaurus? 👍👎

[iron tree]

https://tenor.com/m097Abp9vru.gif

[elfin night]

The funny thing is that the numbers I’m using are the ones the game has by default

And it would be very flawed of me to for example consider dinosaur B in 200% diet and dinosaur A in 100%

[weary dust]

@iron tree

@iron tree im stealing your meme btw

[viscid mica]

So your using the max grow without diet?

Which is a let me double check here

K just as I thought 10hour grow for deino

And you think smalls that would be a 3hr without diet

ya ok

Eh @steep otter You valid but why you throwing shade at pachy man why not dilo

[elfin night]

Do you realize that what matters here is that all my calculations have the exact same diet?

Sure, values would be different if I had used stego in perfect diet with 300 minutes instead of 600, but the proportions would be the same relative to everyone else with their 100% boosted diet

[steep otter]

Pachy alt atack being able to knock down dillo?

[elfin night]

I could’ve used perfect diet too but I wanted smaller numbers for the sake of it

[viscid mica]

Ya but that’s not practical in practice

Like tell me your getting the same diet on deino as omni or compared to herbis

[viscid mica]

Bro the way it’s written I though you meant knock stuff down THATS pachy sized not knock stuff down Like pachy can

[elfin night]

How is it not practical that I want to prove that some playables are far more worth growing than others per minute in about the same conditions and I calculate it in the same conditions?

[viscid mica]

Lmao

[viscid mica]

But some playables are easier to get better diet than others so it simply doesn’t work

[elfin night]

Herbis all get about the same diet, and to be honest deino is a very special isolated case even though you make a fair point about comparing deino to all other carnivores

[viscid mica]

Like stego is way harder to maintain good diet vs pachy or teno

[elfin night]

Lmao

[viscid mica]

?????

[analog mirage]

Because the playable being worth your time doesn’t come down to stats. It’s about if the playable is functional and balanced

[viscid mica]

That’s… no?

[elfin night]

Keeping super good diet on any herbi is easy

[viscid mica]

Ya and some are easier than others

[elfin night]

You sit in a patrol zone and that’s it

[viscid mica]

Hate to be that guy but I gotta, How many hours you got?

And how many of the Dino’s in envirma have you grown more than once?

[elfin night]

In a vacuum all of these adult dinosaur numbers are balanced and good across the board, but the thing is how insanely rewarding it is to grow something like a cera or an omni compared to troodon or ptera in regards to how your growth is rewarded

[analog mirage]

Which is because the playables themselves aren’t good

Troodon and Ptera are really mediocre

[viscid mica]

Troodon is incredibly rewarding you can litterally bring down titans as a venom rat

[analog mirage]

Ehhhh

[viscid mica]

I’m telling your boss

But both those take barely half an hour to FG

[analog mirage]

We enjoy the concept, not the playable

[viscid mica]

[dusky surge]

troodon could do with a few buffs imma be honest, but the devs said they're getting some so

[elfin night]

Yet the complaints about them have never been growth, so you cannot really just go and justify this by saying they’re bad because they themselves as full adults are bad when compared to others. We are talking about growth here

Does that make sense?

[analog mirage]

Iirc both troodon and Ptera take about an hour to grow

[analog mirage]

And if they were improved in their respective niches would they not then be worth growing? Even if a raptor is gonna take 30-40 extra minutes

[viscid mica]

The funny numbers mean everything apparently

Actual combat and how it plays mean nothing

This is legacy chat tail ride for the W

[elfin night]

The humble omni taking about twice the time troodon does and getting over twice the damage gain and about 4 times more health per minute

[analog mirage]

The only thing I think your growth vs stats comparisons really apply to is Carno. Which is only because it’s still taking about 3 hours for something with the exact same biteforce and weight as Cerato.

[elfin night]

[analog mirage]

Which doesn’t matter if the playable itself is good

[viscid mica]

Carno grow agony I hope the carno grow time reduction comes with the test they got coming QA or HT

[analog mirage]

Which troodon is not

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

[elfin night]

Maybe this is hard to show with the current roster, and while I think that making them genuinely unique and interesting to play is a good way to justify the balance, I have the impression that this will become an issue in the future when more playables are added and something like rex is simply way more worth your time to grow than an alberto

[viscid mica]

EXTRA HERACY

YOU PUT SOME RESPECT ON THE DINO OF MY PEOPLE

[analog mirage]

Your stats vs growth is based on raw numbers and time. But raw numbers and time isn’t that relivant if the playable sucks

What’s worth growing is based on balance

[viscid mica]

But in all seriousness I feel like your ignoring the ecosystemic roles of stuff

A Alberto is the cleanser of all things mid sized

While a Rex is the embodiment of $ around and find out

They target completely different things

They probably will rarely interact unless a big group of Alberto are feeling spicy

I just don’t see how the #s matter that much

[elfin night]

For now I will step back and observe

[analog mirage]

Keep in mind all of our current carnivores can afford to get most of their growth through eating Ai. (Outside of deino)

I highly doubt allos and Rex’s are gonna eat Ai all day

[elfin night]

Will probably take eons but still

[analog mirage]

Those larger carnivores actually need to hunt people during growth

[viscid mica]

I highly doubt Rex will be able to after a certain grow stage

[analog mirage]

Because they become too big to sustain off Ai

[elfin night]

I just really don’t want that the game encourages people to play apexes and nothing else, and their amazing ratios are an incentive for it

At least they were in legacy and to an extent with steg now

[viscid mica]

I really don’t think envirma does

I get legacy right cuz 1D combat

But envirma has a whole different ecosystem and play style

[dusky surge]

oh just you wait baby, with enough dino AI and enough complaining about AI spawns from rex mains, they'll be nice and full

[analog mirage]

[elfin night]

Please

[viscid mica]

Down with Dino AI

[elfin night]

I need to see a deino trying to lunge an adult rex in south plains when it comes out

[viscid mica]

Dino AI are a terrible idea! Just increase server pops!

[elfin night]

Preferably the lower river where Rex could maybe walk near the waterfall

[viscid mica]

Let’s be honest some new deino will do it then come here and whine about how op Rex is

It’s like watching people make stego balancing suggestions

[elfin night]

It will be hilarious

If a croc tries lunging a 9 ton rex and gets ripped to shreds by the shore

[analog mirage]

This is why ai should be locked to specific species/growth imo. Juvies spawn ai, small carnivores do as well, and even small herbivores/ herbivores juvies

At least the animal Ai we have rn

[elfin night]

“Nerf stego too op the tailswing can one shot ceras”

Uh…that’s the point?

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/boar-ai-gif-10029750210535585520

[viscid mica]

RIGHT ITS MEANT TO BE ABOE TO BOX APEXS WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM IT

[viscid mica]

I made a really comprehensive suggestion somewhere in general feedback I’ll find it rq

[mint star]

free food

[elfin night]

Carnivore newbies when the herbivores are actually not walking steaks

https://tenor.com/view/tgwtg-that-guy-with-the-glasses-doug-walker-point-computer-gif-17022655

[viscid mica]

#general-feedback message

Found it

[viscid mica]

Truely

[viscid mica]

AHHHHHH

[analog mirage]

The problem here is juvies and small carnivores are limited if they dare set foot in a populated area and would encourage players to just go to small sections of the map alone to grow.

Because juvies and small carnivores are the only ones who need it, just lock the spawning to them

Carno goes to a corner of the map by itself, spawns a gazillion boars

[viscid mica]

Unfortunately I typed that poorly and shoulda said groups

[analog mirage]

Oh you mean groups, not just large amounts of players

[viscid mica]

Meant be typed yes

[analog mirage]

What would stop them from just not grouping up and traveling together

[viscid mica]

Still benefit smalls and not large

And the game could make it have redundant for if they are in each others render distance for a long time

It wasn’t a completely thought out suggestion tbh

[analog mirage]

Fair

I see the thought process, though there may be a few issues with it

I just think it would be much simpler to lock it so specific species/juvies

Which the whole East plains Ai issue won’t be of an issue now that random spawning is a thing

[viscid mica]

[analog mirage]

Though things like Carno or dilo who have ai on their diet wouldn’t necessarily spawn it. It would more so just be a thing they can get every so often

Which you could get a Juvie to spawn it for you sure, but the Juvie needs to eat as well, and they will eventually grow out of it

Now that diets actually last for a long period of time I wouldn’t mind carnivores having stricter diets overall

Make them something you have to kill herbivores for

[eager saddle]

I mean, you can respawn patrol zones so it wouldn’t be that bad

[elfin night]

Buff Rex

[slim dragon]

on it

[elfin night]

good

[floral sinew]

playing stego for a good 4 hours and have seen more ai than I have in 8 hours playing cera

[elfin night]

Man

why did the mixpacking feedback become so frequent

with all the petitions to ban mixpacking or adding debuffs which would become a problem in many places

[lone cliff]

dilos' hallucynations dont do any attacks, is that bug or feature now?

[elfin night]

they do

they are just buggy

sometimes they bite, sometimes they dont

and thank they dont bite all the times, that would make the game unplayable for so many things

[lone cliff]

i mean, they should make it consistent, then nerf it

[slim dragon]

It's the hivemind

[elfin night]

Mfw stealth exists

Or like, strains in the future dammit

[steep gazelle]

@dusky surge Cerato is already OP and you want it to have extra life? xd

[steep gazelle]

extra life and charge bite in alt atack, bro kskksskks

[crimson crater]

for 20% speed reduction that’s more than fair

[elfin night]

A suggestion to make charged bite a deterrent and also a defensive tool?

Doesn’t sound bad at all

Literally addressing one of cera’s biggest problems

[dusky surge]

i want it to do its job. notice how ive made its hunting power significantly worse

[iron tree]

And made its scavenger and corpse bully power significantly better

[viscid mica]

@viscid schooner cera doesn’t need to click you can just let go and it does it’s m2

[viscid schooner]

You still time it like a bite was the point I was getting at

[worthy steeple]

i’m surprised you weren’t against it? like you didn’t want even 2% difference (from 40 to 39) and now you’re agreeing with 20%?

[dusky surge]

because it's actually compensated for with other mechanics

[viscid mica]

Yea because 452 damage + what ever bile% buff would be balanced

(Using damage perks makes charge bite)

I too like the idea of a 600 damage charge bite

[dusky surge]

ah yes op mutation is op therefor dont add a feature unrelated to it

[steep gazelle]

rex with 1200 bite and cerato with 600, good

[viscid mica]

Gonna make me puke

[viscid mica]

Acknowledging the fact that those mutations aren’t going anywhere helps make good balancing suggestions

I think the devs have been pretty clear that they don’t intend to remove or change mutations anytime soon

[steep gazelle]

Unfortunately, these damage mutations only favor the Cerate, other carnivores barely have their damage increased. There shouldn't even be mutations that affect the dino's status such as damage and speed xd

[viscid mica]

And I still think that that’s a lot of buffs for a minor debuff in my opinion as I said previously speed hasn’t stopped cera so far

[dusky surge]

yea because it isn't slow lol

of course it doesn't care

speed hasn't stopped it before because it really ain't that slow

[mint star]

just give cerato ambush mechanic that’ll solve everything perfectly

[viscid mica]

It’s slower than a good portion of the roster and it still manages to get bile on them

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nope-no-way-noo-absolutely-not-gif-20244171

[mint star]

god if only cerato was like 2 kilometres slower

[viscid mica]

And then suddenly allo will be a OP

[dusky surge]

it'd be OP regardless lol

[steep gazelle]

I wouldn't mind reducing the speed of the Cerato to 20km/h

[mint star]

allo is its own problem

[dusky surge]

what lol

[steep gazelle]

its a joke @stark knoll

i realy hate cerato 🙂

[mint star]

lower the oppressiveness of cerato, relegate it to the disposal unit it’s supposed to be

[dusky surge]

So do I, that's why I want it to actually do its job

Because the thing I hate abut cerato is how much it fails at its purpose

[viscid mica]

Remove animation lock vomit BOOM problem solved

[dusky surge]

it doesn't solve the other underlying issues with cera

[viscid mica]

And what’s that

[dusky surge]

like it being a generally better hunter than an actual body guard/defensive animal

despite its entire niche being, y'know, that

[viscid mica]

It loses 50% of it dps power because it doesn’t get free hits from vomit

Seems like it would make it not a generally better hunter to me

[dusky surge]

Doesn't that also make it worse at what it's supposed to do as well as what it isn't

[viscid mica]

ALSO it’s the only mid sized Dino with any sort of punching power that doesn’t result in a 6 second stun animation

[steep gazelle]

also. What should be a carcass-targeting dinosaur is the best hunter in the game

[viscid mica]

No you still lose a lot of stuff for vomiting just doesn’t lock people from moving

[viscid mica]

POV when there are only 2 mid sized land carni and the other one got nerfed into the ground to a point where it can’t compete

[dusky surge]

but if cerato loses damage output, it loses pressure and intimidation aspect

[hasty coyote]

and survivability in general

[viscid mica]

Not at all it still has body buff and vomit

The only thing it does is let stuff keep running after getting vomit hit

[steep gazelle]

carnotaurus was always something that hunted smaller dinos, I'm talking about dilos and omni

[viscid mica]

Simple size

A omni solo isn’t gonna have the same bite force or survivability to hits as something nerdy triple its weight

That’s like comparing cera to a Sucho

Or carno to acro

Naturally bigger things have a easier time individually

[dusky surge]

not even tbh

a herrera or ptera have a far better time individually than, say, dibble

[viscid mica]

The ability to fly or climb trees are abnormal variation and not fair or subjective to the discussion

Ah yes “quetz is the strongest apex cuz nothing can attack it 90% of the time”

[dusky surge]

that's not even what i said what

also excluding a huge part of the game because they're not literal generic land animals is bizarre to me

does galli also not count because it's too fast?

does deino and beipi not count because their aquatic?

[viscid mica]

When talking generic land Dino I prefer to compare to those who have the same or similar restrictions

[eager saddle]

Not really. Vomiting and losing 80% of your food and water and being unable to regain diets until cured is plenty of a deterrent

[viscid mica]

^^^^

[viscid mica]

Yes, abnormal variation that gives a advantage compared to the Dino in question

[eager saddle]

Plenty of times where I spent a lot of time on a hunt and a cera came in and body camped the thing I just killed. But I was almost half food so better to find something else than fight a cera half exhausted

[dusky surge]

and yet it doesn't deter most players. If the cera dies, the organs and meat on it are enough to regain those lost things. So, most players take vomiting as a reason to double down rather than back off

[viscid mica]

Quetz and spino are gonna be some of the best apex’s for the simple reason that they can leave a fight extremely easily etc fly away or dip into water too deep to be followed

[dusky surge]

If an abnormal variation is simply having a niche, idk what to tell you lol

[viscid mica]

It is but like I said

[dusky surge]

this is some legacy player talk rn lol

[viscid mica]

If we are talking about something locked to land let’s talk other things and compare those with the same limitations s

[eager saddle]

Yeah because a lot of players don’t play to survive but to fight. We would have to see if the behavior changes once elder is released and there is an incentive to survive

[worthy steeple]

flows said 39km/h will make cera clunky, idk how flows agreed to 20% speed reduction no matter whats the buffs

[dusky surge]

every animal has to be exactly the same to make the argument work

[viscid mica]

Smooth brain

[dusky surge]

okay but we can also change features of cerato to actually make it something worth avoiding (while also not being insanely over-aggressive like it is now)

[viscid mica]

It’s a massive lack of variation in size as well

[eager saddle]

But then we circle back to “it already is”

[viscid mica]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[eager saddle]

I’d only take on a cera at a body if I was really desperate or if it was low (and gastro didn’t exist )

[dusky surge]

I just want to see more nuance to charge bite than "you hold it and attack and that's your entire gameloop as cera"

[viscid mica]

Solo carno yoinked a trio that had just backed off after getting beat by some tenos LOL

[viscid mica]

To be fair no one really uses body buff to their advantage properly unless they are extremely low HP

[eager saddle]

There is a lot of non nuanced fighting

[viscid mica]

The amount of legacy time face tank battles that happen are wild

[dusky surge]

Okay and cera is literally the worst example of it besides maybe dilo

[viscid mica]

Cera mains are why I believe the average skill level is relatively low

[eager saddle]

Dilo being bite->envenom-> spam rmb?

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/860702568145354795/1340505598638166056/attachment.gif

[viscid mica]

Fair lol both pretty 1 D get in get your hits spam the same ability endlessly

[dusky surge]

hence why i actually want a rework that adds mechanical depth to the animal

[viscid mica]

But it won’t

Like I don’t see a simple slow down changing cera behaviour at all

[dusky surge]

you'd be surprised how much it matters, especially in a game like this

[viscid mica]

It’s super easy to avoid and now not only are you offering constant vomiting which would be hell on earth to the victim your giving MORE DAMAGE

[dusky surge]

given how dominant we all know photosynthetic and nocturnal are, a simple speed change can MASSIVELY impact gameplay

[viscid mica]

I legit off the top of my head can think of 7 ways to bypass the speed reduction

[eager saddle]

And I just came in to say that losing damage output really wouldn’t bring cera to a bullied state, simply because vomit exists (even if it lost the stun)

[dusky surge]

list them

[eager saddle]

Can we at least agree on the “F those mutations in particular “?

[dusky surge]

that's basically a punishment for not respecting it to the point that you got infected, and then STILL STICKING AROUND AFTER you got infected

Like genuinely that's on you if you're in that situation

[viscid mica]

They are situational and are explaining entire combat but I’ll keep it brief all can be summed up in 3
-tap m2
-inflict bile
-wait till target is locked in 3+ second animation to attack again
-rinse repeat

[eager saddle]

Also gastro and tactical endurance suck (as in, are broken.)

[viscid mica]

You realize you suggested bile last for 5 minutes and repeat a minimum of 5 vomits

[dusky surge]

that's literally just 1 way to do it you said you had 7 ways to bypass it lmao

[viscid mica]

Your stam regen bar would be BELOW HALF after 5 vomits

[dusky surge]

yes and there's a point in the fight where you aren't infected

[eager saddle]

Sooo basically any herbivore stunlock?

[viscid mica]

You’d prolly starve to death after being inflected for that long

[viscid mica]

Yup basically

[dusky surge]

also you want me to solve it? easy. make it shorter

[viscid mica]

Go read his suggestion

#balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

done

your problem is solved

[eager saddle]

Would you not need to program it seperately from normal vomit sickness?

[viscid mica]

Still don’t vibe with extra damage and lasting repeating vomiting

[dusky surge]

i think its fine because it's a genuinely effective deterrent

[viscid mica]

That’s not a deterrent that’s like throwing a live f1 grenade in someone’s hands and calling it a deterrent

Yes let me kneecap this dude with a 12 gauge to deter him from walking on my land

[dusky surge]

it's more like yelling at someone "hey, i'm going to throw a live f1 grenade at you soon. if you don't leave you're gonna probably die" and they choose to catch it

[viscid mica]

A deterrent is to scare or be annoying not so devastating you need life support to operate afterwards

[dusky surge]

yea, and it's scary

[viscid mica]

Constant vomiting for 5 minutes is not deterring it’s down right op

[dusky surge]

it has successfuly scared you off

a deterrant that only deters after it's been delivered is an ineffective deterrent

if the idea of the deterrent scares you, it's an effective deterrent

[viscid mica]

Killed*

It’ll kill you because they only gotta inflict it once for constant effect

[dusky surge]

which is why you don't let them inflict it, and given that they're

A: Slower
B: Not instantly gettign value

You CAN escape

[viscid mica]

Not instant for anything bigger than cera is

Everything else is pretty dam instant

[eager saddle]

Writing down notes/thoughts:
-Would you NEED the health buff on top of the body buff?
-I hope the vomit lock is disabled if it’s going to be random timer.
-Rolling in the mud seems a bit inconsequential if it wears off within a minute but hey can be situational I guess
-the additional damage would be more deterrent but it seems a bit over the top with what vomit already does.
-How does “claiming a body” work with ceras in your party? Can they get nutrition too? Or is it supposed to be a deterrent for when you’re solo?

[dusky surge]

You gain additional time with other bites. It can stack to be pretty annoying if you manage to get infected as a big thing

[viscid mica]

Bro changed it from 5 to 1

[dusky surge]

Dilo balance

[viscid mica]

Dilo venom lasts far to long they fix that it would be far more balanced

[worthy steeple]

you both come take my eu2 teno egg

nerds

[keen plover]

#balance-feedback message good suggestion omg!

well the charge part

[raven mist]

Mr pachy thinking about your suggestion from yesterday and today, I understand where you're coming from however in the game state that Evrima is currently in trying to make Cera play the part of a scavanger/defensive corpse hugger just can't work at least right now.

This why I suggested to wait until Allo Drops because it will be the first and closest thing to fit that 'Mid' tier category when it's most likely going to sit at the 2T range in Weight, and why Carno was probably nerfed in HP alongside the devs wanting to balance it out in their own way.

Where am I going with this?
Going back to why you want Cera to be more accurate to how they might've been in real life. Does that mean we will ignore the teno players and Maia players and dibble players that actively try to hunt you down when you're playing Cera and they are mix packing? Is that scientifically accurate in our history books? Not to my knowledge at least but correct if I'm wrong. This is a game and it needs a bit of structure. Cera will remain how it is because it needs to be where it is with what's in the game. Allo will drop and players will learn where it sits in the food chain then further adjustments will be added if necessary by the devs to other Dino's or Also depending on where things stand. Because at the end of the day this is a video game and a lot of players will not understand and know how "accurately" play a dinosaur. Trying to make a Dino very niche in respects to how we think it might've been in real life will make the game play even more boring yo a lot of people right now because there's not much else to play on the carnivore list that screams "let's go hunt something that isn't a total bore" It needs to not get so complicated at least for now.
You aren't objectively wrong just at this point in time I don't think it's right and some of your adjustments would be a little bit out of line as well for what the Dino is

That's my two cents on the topic of Cera right now feel free to disagree but all levels of players and game feel sort of needs to be included. At least you're not one of those players that is just downright asking for a nerf or buff and we are kinda getting somewhere in a conversation.

[iron tree]

Play on islander instead

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-gif-13575853101874488635

[dusky surge]

"Going back to why you want Cera to be more accurate to how they might've been in real life"

And you've immediately misunderstood my entire point

My goal is not to make cerato realistic. I have made that abundantly clear

If anything, my suggestion fictionalises the animal even more

I also fail to see WHY cerato needs to be how it is atm. It's literally the most oppressive, frustrating dinosaur to deal with in the game because of its current generalist design, and it completely invalidates other creatures by being such

You act also as if allo will solve this, which is bizarre. What exactly about allo makes it suddenly okay to change cera, but cera CANNOT change without allo? I fail to see why allo is so vital here. Carnotaurus got downsized to 1.3 tons and entirely reworked without allo being around

I don't want a scientifically accurate cera. I want a cera that has a fun, unique and specialised gameplay style that was advertised from day one of cerato

[crimson crater]

vomit isn’t strong enough to dissuade things from going after it. if they do no problem, plenty of AI to fill up on

having it actually inflict something more than just vomit will make opponents think twice, hell even thrice before attempting to hunt one

[worthy steeple]

some quality feedback #balance-feedback message

[elfin night]

Bro got mega salty

Posting the same gamer rage spamming caps message in every channel doesn’t make it any less embarrassing

#balance-feedback message Imagine

Carno not only hitting you from a mile away with the charge

But also bleeding you

Why even have a bite at that point

@broken light Why not give dilo a chance of persistent psychosis and injuries in the central nervous system of its prey too since it is using a potent hallucinogenic venom?

Or fractures to stego and dibble

[broken light]

Carno horns causing a blead feels more logical than blunt damage, hell I would even give up the instant damage and would give them a realistic way of hunting their more impossible diet species like Dibbles, its not even close to being as op as giving instant vomit sickness.

[elfin night]

If we go entirely by logic, carno would fracture its skull charging at something even omni sized. And balance/gameplay >>>> realism

And stuff like dibble in diet could be solved by just removing dibble from there lol

And yeah it would be extremely broken to just zoom around and give bleed to someone alongside a knockdown as you move faster than a sprinting galli

Just a better teno kick

[mint star]

@runic star the hypers, neuros, and (i think) tisso strains are still planned for the game

and its theorised that they have something to do with the upcoming elder mechanic

basically, if you’ve lived your dinosaur life to the fullest, you become a prime elder (the physical peak of your species) before slowly declining in strength and eventually becoming a frail elder

if your dinosaur has been living like a bottom feeder, you’ll go straight to being a frail elder

at some point, you’ll be given an option, either peacefully pass of old age and gain (this may change) a permanent buff/mutation which carries through with your next playthrough of that species or continue playing as the frail elder

keep in mind that this stuff may have been changed or adjusted, or may not be the final result

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message
That's waaaay to easy to obtain hypers

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message they don’t know

[woven lake]

How do you know he’d fracture his skull? Were you there in the early Cretaceous? I’ll come with a bit of realism for you. So far.. We think that Carnotaurus used it’s horns to hunt (and if so, it would be the first animal to have used horns to hunt with). Because its fossilized remains suggests so (think of it’s neck, spine and tail section. Which are broad and accentuated. Tbf they only found one ‘almost’ complete fossil of it. But if you want realism? Then return its weight to 1.8 or 2 tonnes. I can yap on for hours but won’t spoil you with the details.

[elfin night]

Lmfaoooo

Hold on

[safe pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1254848305687691375/1313246729725808640/image0-2.gif

[woven lake]

Its alright, a good debate favors all of us.

[elfin night]

1. Can you bring me the source that says carnotaurus used its horns to hunt? One that isn’t wildly outdated please.

2. Paleontologists do not need to travel back in time in order to determine many things. We can know many physical and anatomical traits about extinct animals thanks to recent technology and being provided with the right remains. That is exactly how we estimate with considerable accuracy the weight of many animals that we didn’t get to see, or calculate their bite force or what they would be able to do…And it is completely out of the question that an animal like carnotaurus would break its head or neck or risk trauma if clashing against something the size of a polar bear at a speed of over 15 meters per second

And I will reiterate

This was a counter to the idea of defending realism and logic

I do not care about that all that much, and I think the idea of giving carno whah basically is a forward teno kick with functionally zero stamina cost is immensely dumb

Imagine that thing just running around and giving you bleed with the attack that has the biggest lag issues in the entire game in the user’s favor 😭 😭

@runic star way too easy

[woven lake]

Strong arguments. However both I already have explained.

1. I never said it did, I said so far it’s suggested! Conceptually it’s just theorie. Since you’ll be needing hundreds of fossils to be sure. And since we only have one..

2. I elaborated that exactly by remarking the elaborated neck joints, spine and tail. Which suggest it was designed to be a sprinter!

3. I positively wish to encounter this proposal since there’s no logic in getting bleed after being rammed by the equivalent of a small truck.

• I honour the idea, of course.

To add: I main Carno and like the animal deeply! I personally wish it sees redemption. It needs to be nerfed and buffed simultaneously. Very interested on how exactly that should be!

[elfin night]

1. Same question, where did you get that information? Which professional has ever proposed that?

2. It was designed to be a sprinter and I know and could cite the studies that prove it was a speedy animal for its size, yes. But there’s nothing there specifically that would mathematically allow it to harmlessly use its head to charge at a 700kg animal and tackle it to the ground without suffering injuries or a commotion

[viscid mica]

Counter arguement guys #paleotalk

[slim dragon]

Being a sprinter doesn't mean it was adapted to colliding with objects at high speeds

[woven lake]

Well, no. I wouldn’t have that ‘evidence’ I’m afraid. As far as I can ‘fact’ check. However I would be intrigued to have your own information cited in an academical format as well?

[slim dragon]

In fact, the ability to ram things require extremely specialized neck muscles, vertebrae and skull structure, which even pachy didn't have

So far paleontologists believe carno either used its horns through headswings when fighting other members of their own species, or to destabilize a prey they were running next to

[broken light]

actually no, Carno had an extra sturdy skull, neck and spine for absorbing impacts

[elfin night]

Source? You’re gonna need that

And still the balancing point remains untouched

[woven lake]

Where are your sources?

[broken light]

im not doing your basic google work for you man

[woven lake]

Many sources seem to contradict each other.. seemingly a reoccuring topic in paleontology

[broken light]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0oa3Qiz5tw

[elfin night]

Brother

[elfin night]

Brother

You were the first ones to talk about realism and accuracy, you cannot just go and switch and tell me to look the evidence of how it was NOT built to do that

And yeah sure I will make mine

Also, looking things up in Google is far from reliable lmao

[slim dragon]

If your source is google might as well say you don't have a source

[broken light]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnotaurus

[slim dragon]

Are you just gonna post the wikipedia article that everyone's already read here or show the part where they say why carnotaurus did charge things and back that up with a reliable source ?

[woven lake]

Well it’s a source at least. None of the articles that may contradict this is shown.

[broken light]

if you want the sublinks thats a lot of them

[dusky surge]

is that AI lol

[broken light]

thats the brief summary

[stark knoll]

That's AI

[broken light]

you can look up any article on it just about brings it up

[elfin night]

I am looking for actual evidence in scientific articles to battle...google and AI "sources"

ridiculous but I guess I have to do it

[broken light]

Ai search of real articles

look it

[bronze rapids]

Naahh i would also rather get actual articles than some ai slop

[slim dragon]

AI is literally taught to lie

[dusky surge]

paleo university professors when their students use google AI as their source

[elfin night]

hold on

got one article

[broken light]

https://www.darwinsdoor.co.uk/prehistoricplanet/carnotaurus-sastrei-the-short-handed-sprinter.html#:~:text=Carnotaurus is perhaps most easily,The second theory is hunting.

[elfin night]

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202407.2099/download/final_file get some actual evidence from a properly written academic text

literally this year

[slim dragon]

hatched bite mentioned

[elfin night]

now, with this part refuted, why dont we talk about the balancing part of this balance feedback? Why should carno be given bleed during the charge that it can spam and is extremely easy to land instead of simply removing dibble from its diet?

[broken light]

refuted? it litteraly says it was possible lol?

[elfin night]

yeah that is from a very old article almost in the time where carnotaurus was discovered. Disproven a while ago

[slim dragon]

Wait carno had "densely vascularized horns" ?
Then combat was definitely not their main purpose lol

[elfin night]

lol yes

otherwise it would be the one bleeding

article discusses multiple purposes

[slim dragon]

Horns being used for sparring against other members of their species, yes
Horns being used as a main form of attack, no

[elfin night]

^

[slim dragon]

Because again, an animal needs very extreme adaptations in order to be able to just throw itself headfirst into a target and not die

[elfin night]

and it would certainly not help at all to have its anatomy to crash against a 700kg target at 60 kph

An animal capable of withstanding such stress would have a much more rigid and dense neck, as well as shorter and with a body perfectly suited for that. Hell, not even pachy irl would be able to do some huge frontal rame to its own lmao

Carno is completely out of the question, it would likely suffer as much harm as its target if not more doing that since the whole head and neck are involved.

[slim dragon]

It's like
idk
Deer
Deer have functional horns (antlers) but they cannot really ram things
Not while sprinting, that is
Because their necks and heads are too frail to handle the impact of a full charge
Doesn't mean they cannot use their antlers in self-defense either

[broken light]

stating it may not have been for combat is not definitive it's presumptive.

[elfin night]

now, with that out of the question, what about game balance? Why wouldn't bleed on charge be broken and also very much replace the bite?

[elfin night]

nearly everything about paleontology is presumptive, but if you have an animal with a rather rigid neck and with horns filled with blood vessels, then it is very likely it didn't use its horns to crash against its prey at 16 meters per second

[slim dragon]

(147 alligators per well-done burger in american units)

[elfin night]

pffft

like man, do you know how fast that is?

it is inhumanly powerful

it's like a literal car crashing

[broken light]

well as is it stands a chance against adults in its own diet Dibble, Maya, and teno, as a solo hunter, limited to a group of 3, I would love to see the figures on win rates vs these three because I would wager a lot they are not in the carno's favor

[elfin night]

so...you should give an extremely powerful buff to carno...

instead of simply replacing dibble with like troodon or something in its diet

[slim dragon]

Carno is a small game hunter
None of them fall under the category of small game

[elfin night]

dibble is regrettably in its diet, but man, it could simply be replaced and problem solved

[broken light]

yet all 3 are in their Diet

[slim dragon]

Diets are stupid

None of them make sense

You can pick any dino in the game and see how absurd they are

[broken light]

Maya is its only realistic line diet, unless you count Dryo but you might as well add Unicorns to their diet

[elfin night]

maia is out of carno's menu in practice unless the maia is total dog water

lol

[slim dragon]

Or a juvie

[elfin night]

true

I was assuming adult

but tbh which juvies besides those who can fly or swim are not options for carno

[slim dragon]

I think devs overestimate the likelihood of finding juvie animals to eat

[elfin night]

bro...I tried calculating it out of curiosity and a 1300kg carno ramming something at 60 kph and it's actually nearly as strong of an impact as the bite of a Tyrannosaurus and being very generous with the distance it travels right after the impact. Ramming something like a maia would outright kill it 😭

[elfin night]

juvenile ceras and dibbles screaming their lungs out as soon as they spawn in sp:

[broken light]

dude, the hypsi was nerfed compared to its 80kph estimate

[elfin night]

WHAT

WHAT WHAT AND WHAT

[broken light]

one of the fastest land creatures ever

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/violet-wtf-spit-take-spit-water-gagged-gif-5590139569255826240

[dusky surge]

im sorry is hypsi a ferrari now what

[elfin night]

what are you talking about????

bruh

leave wikipedia and 2000s dinosaur books

hypsi was never capable of doing 30 strides per second

💀

well no, 30 is too little to match that

[broken light]

i will have to look that one up again but I remember seing 50mph

[elfin night]

lmao

[stark knoll]

Just think about that one logically

[elfin night]

^

please

[broken light]

hypsi..."I'm fast as f$5( boi!"

[elfin night]

do you see hypsilophodon capable of running at 14 meters per second by doing a stride (at least) every 0,08 seconds?

do you actually believe that?

[broken light]

50kph

[dusky surge]

biomechanics be damned we ballin

[elfin night]

I can't

[elfin night]

brother, 50kph is 13.9 meters per second

[broken light]

https://www.q-files.com/prehistoric/dinosaur-species/hypsilophodon#:~:text=Gazelle dinosaurs,(30 mph) or more. 50kph but way faster than in game

[dusky surge]

what the hell are the q files

[elfin night]

does that look like a scientific, peer reviewed, academic article to you?

or like a recent website at the very least???

dude

a bipedal animal of that size likely cannot stride more than one meter

this thing wasn't running around like a damn whippet

[broken light]

1869 so this is one of the first named

[viscid mica]

@restive token they are

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-gif-5848418847127216186

[elfin night]

grow up

please

[viscid mica]

But health regen and stam regen are slowed when 40% or lower bleed as your basically dying

[minor axle]

Seems pretty legit to me, but just to be safe I think we should double its speed to 100mph, and then nerf it if needed

[elfin night]

this guy lol

actually clueless (no hard feelings but oh my god)

[viscid mica]

Are yall still having paleo talks in this channel and not #paleotalk

[elfin night]

tells me when hypsi was discovered in response to me asking for an updated, academic text instead of a website anyone could've written

[elfin night]

sorta tied to balance

[viscid mica]

From the looks it’s all paleo stuff but ok

[elfin night]

bro said they nerfed hypsi by not making it run proportionately faster than a cheetah and that carno logically and irl used its horns as a weapon so they should cause bleed

whatever

what do we have now

@restive token yeah it's called commitment. Fights are meant to be risky. You better know what you're doing if you attack something that can hurt you that badly

[broken light]

hard to find any recent scientific papers about the hypsi and the scorces range in speed pretty wildly from 50mph to 22kph

[daring spindle]

Why the change in units

[broken light]

what they are listing

[daring spindle]

Who’s they

[broken light]

in the older articles they thought it was arboreal

thats just a uk school article but its hard to find anything consistent

my guess is its a typo and they meant kph

[daring spindle]

I’m gonna be honest everything about that article is fishy

[broken light]

https://www.hook-jun.hants.sch.uk/index.php/school-news/289-getting-to-know-hypsilophodon#:~:text=The Hypsilophodon was not a,to a speed of 50mph.

[daring spindle]

“The hypsilophodon was one kind of dinosaur because it is only 1.3 meters tall”

What

Not even the same tense used

Nor does the word “because” make any sense there

[broken light]

another says 40km ...its all over the place

[slim dragon]

Um, hypsilophodon is 1.3 meter tall now ?

[daring spindle]

I was also gonna say

[weary dust]

Just curoius what anyones reaction would be to carnivores taking no damage from herbis while dragging a body, the idea is to kill deny body campers but still allow carnivores to attack, what do you think the ramifications are, is it stupid, is it good? Also do yall think there should be different speeds at which you should drag a corpse, like z walk to maintain stam, walk to do it how it is now, and maybe move a little faster than walking normally by sprinting at higher stam cost?

[slim dragon]

I think it's completely absurd

Dragging a body making carnivores invulnerable to herbis makes no sense at all

[iron tree]

fr

this could get abused too

you could bite and drag to not get hit

[iron tree]

@chilly scarab that's just carno's cc recovery speed

it really needs to be faster. Carnos can get stun locked very easily

[shadow vortex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1232185340425404427/1311055207299420362/carno_funny_theisle.gif

[broken light]

herbivores outside Hypsi & Dryo are pretty boring to play, your just on easy mode, free food all the time and offensively your pound for pound better in a fight ...drinking water is often scarier than coming across a lone predator

[elfin night]

I am sorry, but that is so stupid

It would be SUPER exploitable, and also pointless because you would be draining stam and herbis could just stick around next to you until you either run out of stam or you are forced to drop the body without full stam and you can get ran down…or at best you have to drop the body but now they are guarding the body again, back to square 1

So it is exploitable AND doesn’t solve the problem

[broken light]

hell I fear other stegos more than carnivores

[elfin night]

I wouldn’t say that at all for most herbivores, it really is just a stego thing because if the fact that the biggest land predator is cera rn, but the rest can be consistently threatened by cera and/or carno

It’s just stego the one that needs to kos and guard bodies to get any interaction at all

[broken light]

I enjoy hypsi dryo for actualy having to fear things

[elfin night]

Pachy, teno, maia and even dibble do have consistent threats though

It’s just stego the one that becomes untouchable past 4 tons unless the stego is total garbage at the game

[broken light]

carnivores now run for Ai and stay away from fights unless they have no other choice

[elfin night]

What?

They don’t do that at all

Carnivore players are as violent as they have always been

[broken light]

if theres is a fight the herbi usualy started it

Dibble players...🫴

[elfin night]

That is sooooooo biased

Like actual confirmation bias

It is true many herbivores initiate because they don’t feel like having carnis close

But carnivores are also going out of their way to kill constantly

[broken light]

carnivore players do start fights but its usually carnivores vs carnivores

you play a Stego, Dibble, or Teno and every pred acts like you havent had a shower since the Cambrian

God bless the Deino players for shouldering the entire horror aspect of the Isle....the next time your yoink'ed remember to thank your croc player

[slim dragon]

That's because almost everyone plays carnivore

[broken light]

[elfin night]

He said it already, but that is a fundamentally flawed statement because…you know

Easily 70% of a server at a given time is playing carnivores

So it’s either that or starving

[broken light]

the problem I stated was that herbivore is boring thats why is isnt played as much

[elfin night]

No

You are not locating the issue properly

Carnivores are always going to be more played than herbivores simply because carnivore dinosaurs have always been favored culturally. They are portrayed as the coolest and baddest ones so that is where most people go, and also because of their gameplay having the whole stalking and hunting as a necessity

Has nothing to do with herbivores being either bad or boring, they’re just fine

Only genuinely boring herbivore right now is stego because of the ecosystem it is in. As soon as rex and allo appear it will have something to actually worry about consistently

Dibble still can die to ceras if the ceras aren’t stupid

Or to dilo and omni packs

[broken light]

it does when the available predators avoid hunting or stalking them unless you get overpacking gangs

[elfin night]

But that is more tied to the ecosystem they are in

It is a extrinsic issue for herbivores

Not an intrinsic one

And there’s very much nothing we can do about carnivore bias in pop culture and that’s okay

[broken light]

Troodon packs are somehow scarier than omni's

[elfin night]

Not at all

Because with troodon you can just w shift and they can’t do anything about it

And omni has more tools than pouncing

And well, if you choose to hold your ground, pounce is much stronger in Omni AND it can grapple

[obtuse bison]

i tried fighting 1 single pachy as a dilo... then it ended up with me running away from 5 pachys and i died.

[broken light]

i just see see more stegos struggle to troodons in grass than omni's

[obtuse bison]

little bugger was baiting me to his 4 other mates

[elfin night]

Anecdotal evidence

And what stegos would ever be more scared of troodons than omnis 😭

[broken light]

we need better statistics made public of what kills what.....I have a gut feeling thats fall damage and starvation

[elfin night]

Maybe

[viscid mica]

For what

I’d say that’s two are givens for newer players

[timber tusk]

I had a Troodon jump on my full grown Stego, and it didn’t do ANY damage at all. He left, but I respect that he tried.

A big group could do some damage, but it would take a LONG time to take down a Stego like that.

[elfin night]

You probably need like 10-12 troodons that are any decent to take on a stego

And assuming none of them die in their first pounce or the second

[timber tusk]

They’d get a few pounces off before I reacted, but then it’s thagomizer city. With that many Troos, some would perish. 😔

I’m not that good, but the range on that tail is spooky.

[elfin night]

As long as you don’t get baited and you have some reaction time and game sense, a stego is basically untouchable rn

Even against a troodon or omni megapack

Only real threats a stego could have are dilo packs at night in the open, or a large cera group on the open

Besides cannibals and dibble groups although those are a bit more rare

Everything else is easy game and with terrain, stego is untouchable

Imagine trike when it releases 😭 🙏

[timber tusk]

Maaaaan, the coolest scenario I’ve found myself in was as a fledgling Troo in that one Baby Zone that has roads through it. There was a Sub Carno in the zone, yanking the bees to hunt the Troo nest, and everyone was running circles around him, BUT he was GOOD and kept popping up near me or other groups! It was cool!

But I went and fell off a cliff during a lull in the action, and I was so sad!!

[timber tusk]

I got ambushed by three Cera in the dark on that same Stego, and they could’ve had me if they pressed, but I did enough damage that one died and the others cut their losses. They had the benefit of eating their friend.

I couldn’t see ANYTHING

[elfin night]

You only need one successful powerswing hit to kill them: they either get one tapped or knocked and you can poke them with an alt

Meanwhile they need 9-10 headshots to kill you and that assuming you don’t dodge their charged bites

[timber tusk]

I don’t bother with the power swing cause I prefer the speed. I’d rather do damage than miss, and it gives less experienced hunters a chance to bail, and experienced hunters a chance to make me sweat.

[elfin night]

Power swing is great when you are fighting something that could survive an alt

It is an insanely useful tool vs canni stegos, dibbles and ceras

And I am certain it will be a must vs rex and trike

[timber tusk]

I’ve been lucky to only meet chill herbis on my Stego. He lives on AU1, and all the Maias, Tenos, and occasional small Stegos I’ve seen have been friendly. Heck, on AU2 I have a Teno and tan with three Maias for a bit, and they didn’t on-site the solo Omni that was shadowing us for like fifteen minutes. I’ve had Maias ambush my Pteranodon on NA servers, which is why I’m excited for Rex. Some Herbi players are bored in NA servers, and just need something bigger to worry about.

[haughty grotto]

@glass harbor
Use Vulnona
The devs aren't in charge of islemaps.com
That site is outdated since forever

[timber tusk]

You can’t zoom in very far on that one.

[glass harbor]

oh i did that in the wrong channel

but okay

[timber tusk]

That’s why I’ve been getting into playing Dryo. It’s intense being that vulnerable, trying to just find a pumpkin.

[glass harbor]

yeah im not using that, its really weird

do the devs own that website?

[elfin night]

???

[elfin night]

Its just a map of the island where you can put coordinates and it shows places of interest 😭

You ain’t gonna get hacked bro

[glass harbor]

It's not that, it's just the fact the it looks complicated to use.

[elfin night]

It’s very simple

You get map and a small bar for coordinates. You type the first two coordinates that you can see in your tab menu in game and boom, now you have your exact location displayed on the map

[haughty grotto]

What?
It's fantastic with all the details you could possibly need

And once you set your settings you never need to touch anything else again

On the top dropdown select gateway
On the left use mapconfig to add labels like locations, sanctuaries, water etc

[raven mist]

#balance-feedback message I think the incentive is that raptors get to jump while being slightly slower so it balances it out

[viscid mica]

He blocks anyone who down votes him btw

[raven mist]

Really? Ahaha one of those hey

[dusky surge]

raptors also have better agility and running stam

[raven mist]

Yeah that too

[random stump]

I block people who think something getting outrun, outturned, and outstammed by something that face tanks it is fair.

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

can't outturn or outstam lmao

if the omni pounces or jumps, yes, dilo will outstam, but in pure base running in a straight line, omni gets further

[hasty coyote]

and if omni pounces, the dilo either dies to bleed, or dies to a second pounce if you did damage

[nocturne wind]

Why do you think dilo shouldn’t be faster considering I’m pretty sure you only need photosynthetic tissue to be quicker anyway which why wouldn’t you take as Omni

[dusky surge]

photosynthetic tissue really shouldnt be used as an argument here lol

that mutation is its own problem lmao

[nocturne wind]

Huh? I’m saying if he wants to outspeed dilo just take a speed mutation like nocturnal or photosynthetic tissue it’s that easy

[dusky surge]

yea, and that's the problem

it REALLY shouldn't be able to do that lol

[edgy crow]

And the Dilo is forced to take a speed mut too

[nocturne wind]

I mean there’s that too I just don’t really see how dilo being faster is an issue when it’s a night hunter and can’t jump that’s the whole trade off of Omni being able to jump

[edgy crow]

I know, I agree with you

[dusky surge]

i mean it also has way worse agility

[edgy crow]

I'm just saying bringing up speed muts is useless

[dusky surge]

like dilo has some of the worst agility for a creature of its size

[nocturne wind]

Yeah exactly I feel like there’s a lot more to unpack then just dilo has higher top speed like you said things like it’s agility come into play also

[viscid mica]

You’ve blocked 90% of the people who pay attention to balance feedback

[viscid mica]

Omni has a significantly better turn too ya nub

[edgy crow]

Lmao I'm blocked too

[viscid mica]

Ya legit at one point there was some 15+ of us in chat blocked by him so we can’t vote. It’s also why his suggestions get ignored 90% of the time

[viscid mica]

Like I said 90% of the people who touch balance suggest

[dusky surge]

its extremely funny to me that people also keep going after dilo and omni despite the fact that

• omni can jump, dilo can't
• omni has a much better turn radius than dilo does
• omni can survive multiple attacks from dilo while trying to flee
• omni can kill a dilo with a single pounce if done right and dilo doesn't get it off in tome

meanwhile, troodon is slower AND

• troodon and omni can both jump so good luck using that to get away
• both are exceptionally agile
• one hit and the troodon's dead
• there's no universe troodon is killing omni in a single pounce

and yet troodons manage lmao

so omnis really have zero excuse

[viscid mica]

It’s fsh bro has never cooked and blocks everyone he’s blocked so many people at this point he barely gets 6 reactions

[keen plover]

They should be asking for more rocks and the ability to scramble

[dusky surge]

honestly based hell yea

[dusky surge]

(add rocks with little hidey holes under them so both small critters and jumping critters can benefit from them PLEASE I BEG YOU)

[edgy crow]

Ew not another Omni scramble mention

[dusky surge]

omni scramble is based as hell imma be honest i dont get the hate

[edgy crow]

In its current state absolutely not

[dusky surge]

decrease its weight and give it scramble based as hell

[edgy crow]

If Omni was nerfed sure

And if pin was reworked sure

But right now no

[dusky surge]

eh. i dont see what needs to be reworked about pin

[keen plover]

Even in its current state, what is the issue?

[dusky surge]

^

[keen plover]

I'm so lost lol

[edgy crow]

Obvious bait is obvious

[dusky surge]

scramble doesn't do anything for it in combat, it'd honestly screw it over if it tried to use a scramble midfight

[keen plover]

^

[dusky surge]

its current combative state has little baring on if or if not scramble should be added

[edgy crow]

What it does let it do is invalidate herrera if it can pin

[dusky surge]

no???

how tf would it invalidate herrera at all

a scramble vs herrera climbing are ENTIRELY different beasts

[edgy crow]

Simply make it unable to pin while scrambling, and make its bite just not knockdown Herrera and it's fine

But Omni has no problems hunting Herrera at all so... y'know

[iron tree]

Herrera one shots them

[keen plover]

???

[dusky surge]

it wouldn't be able to pin while scrambling huh

how would it pin anything while scrambling it's trying to use all of its limbs to climb a surface

[edgy crow]

Also why Omni?? I know it was in the concept art, but it's already pretty fleshed out. Why not a carni that actually needs a unique mechanic... like rugops

[keen plover]

HOW

[dusky surge]

how tf is rugrops scrambling be honest with me

[iron tree]

Omni is fine

[edgy crow]

Are we referring to the same thing, Rugops could easily do this

[dusky surge]

how tf

no it would not are you actually messing with me

do you remember what rugrops is

herrera climb has it gracefully move its way up a tree, or just comfortably hang from its side

omni scramble would be a desperate attempt to simply drag its body upwards, consuming stamina for as long as it stays on and releasing the moment it runs out of stam, sometimes to a lethal result

[hasty coyote]

my little guy rugops aint got arms

[dusky surge]

omni ain't attacking anything as it scrambles as it's far too focused on not falling

[edgy crow]

So we're not referring to the same thing cool

[edgy crow]

I'm talking about this, running up trees

[iron tree]

It can't climb trees either

[dusky surge]

we've been referring to scramble the entire time

which would be a climb, like how the concept art shows

[edgy crow]

Oh

[iron tree]

Just rocks and logs

[edgy crow]

No??????? The Omni is RUNNING up the tree

[dusky surge]

its using all of its limbs

you can even see the smaller claw marks from its front limbs

i dont want omni to sprint up a tree, i want it to scramble

[iron tree]

I doubt this will invalidate herrera in any way

[mint star]

make it run up something like trying to run up a skateboard ramp

[hasty coyote]

it scrambles like an egg so that it doesnt get folded like an omelette.

Not herrera 2.0, now 450kg and 0 fall resistance

[iron tree]

It's not gonna climb trees

And even if it could

Herrera would simply press spacebar

[edgy crow]

Point is, Omni is fleshed out. It doesn't need it. It doesn't help what it is meant to be doing (pack hunter), and it only serves to cause Herrera's slightly more misery when it can already one shot them on the ground. Rugops, however, seems like a small game solitary hunter. A scramble would be much more useful on it.

[iron tree]

And the omni would be dead

[mint star]

i do find it kinda funny that if omniraptor got that scramble ability, it could safelog on things it couldnt normally, and make things like carno and cerato complain in feedback

[dusky surge]

funny

[dusky surge]

a scramble would make no sense on an animal that literally HAS NO ARMS

you seem to misunderstand what people want from a scramble

you seem to think it's the ability to run up trees which uh

no it would not be that

[iron tree]

As a carno main, hell yeah

[edgy crow]

FOR THE MOST PART THE OMNI IS RUNNING UP THE TREE

[mint star]

TEAM SCRAMBLE

[keen plover]

erm do you not see its sickle claw!

jk but anyways

[dusky surge]

its using all of its claws into the tree you can literally see it in the concept art

[iron tree]

I'd actually like trying to prevent omnis from scrambling

[edgy crow]

I'd expect it to be much more obviously quadrupedal

[edgy crow]

Again, it doesn't help with its niche at all

[dusky surge]

the idea i want from scramble is basically herrera climb with a LOT more stamdrain, can't be used while out of stamina and a LOT less graceful

[iron tree]

It'd make hunting omnis as herrera way easier too

[edgy crow]

Literally just pin them on the ground, you are much faster

[iron tree]

Think you're safe on that rock of yours? Well, thank you for being stationary

https://tenor.com/bXagw.gif

[dusky surge]

it helps solo omnis and gives it more ways to engage with its environment or opens unique nesting spots, hunting spots or hiding spots

frankly i think restricting animals entirely to these niches is silly. dryosaurus technically doesn't need burrowing. its current niche is a nocturnally capable herbivore with high agility and excellent stamina efficiency. By the logic you put forward, burrowing is unnecessary for the animal, even though it would open leagues of environmental engagement for the creature and make far more unique interactions with its other players

[iron tree]

Herreras shouldn't really be on the ground though

[edgy crow]

Solo Omnis don't need help. Again, pin is that mechanic.

[dusky surge]

you also seem to be fixated on this idea of herrera being invalidated. I think an omni scramble would be as scary to herrera as herrera's dive is to beipi

herrera is a master of the trees. Omni is an unwelcome visitor. Omni would soon realise why it's unwise to try and rival it

[edgy crow]

Ok you do give a good point with the Dryo.

[iron tree]

Imo dryo kinda relies on burrowing because of dilo and omni

[edgy crow]

Idk just... Omni of all playables?

[dusky surge]

why not omni? like genuinely i dont get the issue

its literally in the name

omni

[iron tree]

Do you want a climbing dilo instead?

I don't

[dusky surge]

omni looks like it'd be able to scramble

so i wouldn't be upset if it could

[iron tree]

And neither should you

[edgy crow]

I think Rugops would be a better choice. But with what you've said, Omni scramble doesn't seem that bad. It's just a weird pick imo.

[iron tree]

Actually give it to cera

[dusky surge]

hell, eventually there's going to be THESE THINGS up in the trees so I'm sure herreras are going to inevitably have SOMETHING up there that's going to cause notable problems

[keen plover]

It's a neat feature. It doesn't screw up balance and gives you the chance to evade a dilo and Carno. Seems fine

[iron tree]

How'd rugops manage to do that

[edgy crow]

Those things will climb?

[dusky surge]

oh you bet

in fact they're adapted to it

[iron tree]

I'll play on dinosaur only servers

[dusky surge]

also i frankly am of the belief that smaller tiers should generally have a LOT more unique environmental engagement in their kit, stuff that fundamentally changes how they engage with the environment over sheer combat stuff

[edgy crow]

For the love of god tho, rework pin

[iron tree]

I don't wish to fight scp-096

[dusky surge]

genuinely still don't know how you rework pin it's kinda exactly what you'd imagine a pin would do

like this game just kinda has grabs in it that's the nature of it being a game with dinosaurs built around grabbing things

[iron tree]

Pin ain't that bad

[edgy crow]

ANY way to fight back for a start

[hasty coyote]

#balance-feedback message

basically just make it not a 1-shot if you're 1kg lighter

[iron tree]

Omni is fine atm

[edgy crow]

Also it should be much slower than Herrera's climb

[iron tree]

I'm worried about elder omni though

[dusky surge]

i'd say slower than herrera sprint climb yea, but i'd have it also cost good amount of stam and also IMMEDIATELY end when you run out, regardless of how high you are LOL

uh oh no more stam buh bye

[iron tree]

I hope it won't be able to pin pachy

[dusky surge]

could honestly lead to some really cool plays like omni sliding down a tree to avoid fall damage

i love unique environmental interactions

[edgy crow]

Have we... reached an agreement? Impossible

[iron tree]

Now

Elder omni.

[edgy crow]

Omni shouldn't be able to stay in place as well, it should be one continuous movement

[dusky surge]

simple solution:

make omni lighter, give it scramble, make elder omni its current weight :)

[tight snow]

Tell me u arent saying omni should be climber

[dusky surge]

im saying it should have a scramble

[iron tree]

Yes

Hell yeah

[tight snow]

Wdym, i,m spanish, dont know what scramble mean

[edgy crow]

350kg Omni would be so good

[iron tree]

Basically pulling itself up to a rock or smth

[iron tree]

350kg omni would be balanced as hell

[tight snow]

Hmm not bad, but omni cant be able tp climb a tree, maybe a small rock, but not a big one, or a tree

[iron tree]

Not a large tree

350 hp with the current damage output and spammable pounce is fine

[elfin night]

Bruh lmao

A competent omni with an ounce of situational awareness is never gonna get ran down by a dilo

It is only one kph faster, 30 centimeters (one foot) per second faster lmfao

With a good headstart it will never catch you, and you can just undo all of that progress by using far superior agility and turning quickly

Omni players whenever a carnivore dinosaur excels mildly at something they do /j

[violet needle]

Pteranodon needs to regain stamina when gliding (not climbing, not flapping). It would be a million times funner if it had better stamina usage. Right now it’s stepping stones just to glide a bit, bite a bit, then back to sitting down for 5 minutes.

[elfin night]

Lmao

[elfin night]

If you call glide a bit to be able to sustain yourself in the air for literal kilometers, sure 😭

[violet needle]

I have no idea what your reply means….

[elfin night]

That it feels disingenuous to say “glide for a bit” or any diminutive to downplay how much you can travel with ptera’s stamina and without even having to burn half of it

Plus not every movement has to be flying

You can always be on the ground too and regain stamina, and latching exists for a reason

Stamina only regens slowly if you sit and have to recover all of it

I don’t want isle ptera to become like Bob’s where you can basically spend all of your lifetime flying other than for drinking and sometimes eating

It’s far more skillful and interesting now, and it is also getting a rework to be less reliant on flight which is great

[violet needle]

Yeah because it’s a weak fragile thing that nips at people. It is accurate that it can regain stamina while gliding, just like real flying animals.

Do you play as them?

[elfin night]

Yeah I play ptera and most small critters a lot

And I think the stam is totally fine. It just requires some management and is more complex than simply taking off anytime from any place and expect optimal performance

There’s two takeoffs that take literally 0 stamina and gliding doesn’t waste anything at all. And in order to be a creature that actually interacts with the roster and is reasonably vulnerable (since it is the fastest, it is the only flyer and it can also get its food while flying), it is good that it doesn’t regen stamina as it glides since that would allow it to remain in the air for like…what? 70-80% of the time?

[violet needle]

I’ve been on the isle since 2016, so I’ve seen the changes. Your opinion is it’s fine for you, mine is it needs work, which is why the devs are bringing out the up drafts around the place.

You cannot glide kilometers on first launch, and have anything left for another successful glide afterwards, and that’s a fact. It’s literally hop hop hop up to a higher point then do a zero stam drop glide sure… doesn’t change the fact why it can’t regen stam while gliding, even if it is half tick.

And why can’t people “remain in the air” all the time, it’s player choice, and it’s acceptable mechanics. They land when they need food, drinks (if they don’t have the perks). If you mean landing, so they can be food is a good play mechanic then lol.

[elfin night]

You absolutely can glide for kilometers if your altitude is good enough. As I’ve said, your takeoff point does matter. And the amount of stamina it takes when flying up does force you to both manage stamina properly and also choose routes more mindfully.

And well, yeah? Literally everyone in this game except for kinda deino (although it is a cannibal) have their kit and stats adjusted in a way that they need to be vulnerable at some point. It is for example why beipi’s surface swimming is so slow while the quick one takes stamina, or how herrera does not regen stamina unless it sits at a high place, instead of regaining it when latched to a random palm tree. Everything needs to have drawbacks and other players are given a chance to take advantage of your moments of vulnerability.

Does it sound like good game design to you to enable to playable to ignore virtually 100% of other player interactions and be untouchable when everyone else is forced to play the game and mind other players?

Just removing all of the skill needed to use one of the absolute best abilities in the entire game

And the devs have stated that this rework is mostly to make ptera more viable when walking around on the ground, which is precisely what it needs to be a good playable

Rn it’s mid not because of the stamina since its flight is goated, but more so the fact that it cannot really interact with anything at the moment

[violet needle]

*You absolutely can glide for kilometers if your altitude is good enough. As I’ve said, your takeoff point does matter. And the amount of stamina it takes when flying up does force you to both manage stamina properly and also choose routes more mindfully. *

= burning almost all stamina to get high enough to do it.

• herrera does not regen stamina unless it sits at a high place, instead of regaining it when latched to a random palm tree. Everything needs to have drawbacks and other players are given a chance to take advantage of your moments of vulnerability. *

= Uhm....Herra gains stamina regardless, unless this was patched yesterday. I play Herra 60% of the time.

Does it sound like good game design to you to enable to playable to ignore virtually 100% of other player interactions and be untouchable when everyone else is forced to play the game and mind other players?

= Let people play how they want to play, that does sound like a good mechanic, instead of forcing them into situations where they get one shot, and then left to rot.

Anyway, back to the game for me 👍

[edgy crow]

No. Herrera does not gain stam if it is latched to a tree. It only gains stam if it is standing or sitting on a branch

[edgy crow]

Things are meant to be able to catch Ptera y'know

Like how does a Ptera die if it just flies on end?

Being literally invincible to everything besides canni Pteras is boring

[elfin night]

1. Mfw latching, going to a higher place and then resting a bit or walking up to a mountain or hill are totally valid options to not waste stamina

2. Herrera factually does not regain stamina when it is actively clinging to a tree, only when it is standing or sitting on a tree or rock bruv

3. I am sorry if this comes off as douchy, but the game has a set of rules and everyone has to abide by them. It doesn’t matter what the player wants if it goes against the point of the game. It is a survival game with strong PvP and multiplayer elements, and so creating a character that can simply ignore all of it with minimal effort is fundamentally flawed and will surely never make it into the game

[violet needle]

I was talking about the "height" I sit on top of palm trees all the time and gain stamina./

[elfin night]

Things need to be able to hunt pteras too. No one can escape this game of cat and mouse

BoB ptera really is just broken and not a good reference to how a flyer should be in the isle. Regaining stamina while slowly going up or while gliding just enables that to never die, and that is more or less how ptera with stam regen during flight would look like

It is not valid or reasonable to make a playable only vulnerable to any ambush or confrontation exclusively while they drink or swallow a fish

[violet needle]

They can hunt em, like they always do, when they get food on the ground, or when they drink. Nothing will change in that regard.

"Will never die" that's about as accurate as saying "I'll hide in a bush all the time and never die"

My argument stands factual, they can and most likely will die when attempting to eat something other than fish or drinking from a source of water.

Having them regain stamina while gliding is also factual and correct.

Cheers.

[elfin night]

having them regain stamina while gliding is also factual and correct

[bronze tendon]

God's you're acting like that would make them invicible.

[elfin night]

Also, yeah, they are vulnerable in those scenarios and it is such a limited fraction of their lifetime even with their current flight. Why even make it even better?

Also, only a sith speaks of absolutes

[bronze tendon]

It's not that limited.

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-jeff-bridges-the-dude-stir-stirring-gif-5154450

[elfin night]

Not strictly, but it would allow them to simply never sit and be functionally immortal for sure. As well as removing all of the skill that comes with the current flight

You would be turning a mechanic that encourages you to mind your stam, pick a good starting point and managing your altitude all in once, to simple “press space to go up, wait, press space again”

[bronze tendon]

No they wouldn't

[violet needle]

Mate lol, I'm suggesting something, and your arguing because of your opinons, which, if you played as em, you'd agree. You're probably a dieno that one-shots them or a player that gets wrecked by em a lot tbh.
No point contiuing this conversation, as its getting no where.

My points are solid. Yours are "you would live forever!!!"

[elfin night]

1 minute or so of drinking for like 45 minutes of no mutation thirst drain time, and 2-3 fish for 50 minutes of hunger drain as an adult without mutations…

2-4% of your total time exposed

If we wanna be generous, 10%

[elfin night]

It is going nowhere because you keep talking about how you are talking about facts and truth while I am opinionated and allegedly have no experience. Deadset in your beliefs and also making strawman arguments

If you don’t wanna engage in a stimulating way, sure, keep playing

Maybe the number of fish is off

But still

[bronze tendon]

Why do you have to be here trying to invalidate someone else's opinion. This discussion is for giving ideas and talking about whether or not they would be good ideas. All I've seen you do is say that it would make them "immortal" and sent emojis at him to try and rile him up so you can invalidate anything he says. You aren't giving any constructive feedback here. You're trolling.

[violet needle]

You sound like you don’t, and I also don’t appreciate the emoji’s attempting to mock around with my responses. Not that cool tbh.

Anyway, like I said for the third time, moving on.

[elfin night]

That goes both ways. I am also expressing my opinion and not shutting down anyone, and instead I am explaining (with far more than “it would be immortal”) why I don’t think that’s a good idea/a necessity and I did not misrepresent any argument to downplay anyone’s stance at any given time.

Also, it’s an emote lol, why so defensive about it? It can’t do anything about it, and it invalidates nothing.

[elfin night]

I guess this isn’t constructive feedback

[elfin night]

Neither is this

[bronze tendon]

Who deleted my message?

[elfin night]

Nor this

I am just a grifter looking to ragebait and troll- 😔

[bronze tendon]

He didn't try to invalidate your input he defended his feedback.

[bronze tendon]

Pretty much.

[elfin night]

Bruh

[violet needle]

You’re taking this whole chat way too seriously man, chill a bit. I know how to debate and reason, I’m 33 mate. So just stop being weird at this point and let’s move on. Cheers.

[elfin night]

I am pretty chill

[violet needle]

😂

[elfin night]

Even if it is hard to convey through text

[bronze tendon]

I'ma go back to my game.

https://tenor.com/view/forza-horizon5-land-rover-drift-drifting-land-rover-range-rover-gif-27415115

[elfin night]

It’s a dinosaur game and this is balance discussion, why would I get frustrated or anything

Anyways buff Maia

And hypsi

[violet needle]

Haven’t played that much, is it lacking?

[bronze tendon]

How would you buff them?

[elfin night]

Little bug that is extremely bothersome and incapacitating at times since it cannot switch stances while being attacked

And then some attacks are just so slow or they don’t do enough damage

[bronze tendon]

I like the hypsi as is.

maybe a little less drain when spitting but thats it

I don't now about the maia. Don't play them

[edgy crow]

spit is weird and outdated

it needs better controls

[elfin night]

1. Quad stance damage, (quad stance) attack speed, fixing the issue of stance switching

2. Hypsi would be better with the climbing, but on top of that spit needs to not hold you in place since it is counterproductive for a escape tool and you will get killed even if you land it, needs far more maneuverability and less stamina cost with the charged jump

Also A LOT more fall damage resistance if not totally immune to death by that

[bronze tendon]

I didn't play them back then so I don't have an idea as to compare how it worked with the environment back then to now so I'll just take your word for it

[elfin night]

Hypsi and troodon fall resistance is actually shameful

[edgy crow]

It'd be much better if it held rmb to aim the spit and hit lmb to release it

[elfin night]

Which is sad for creatures that light and nimble

As well as good jumpers

Also ngl I would buff dibble a little as well

Adult is perfectly balanced, but I feel like more stam and a little more speed wouldn’t hurt to juveniles and subadults to stand a chance vs cannis and also the coming of allo and rex

[edgy crow]

reduce weight in exchange for something

I don't know what

I just don't like dibble being 3 tonnes

[elfin night]

Nah dibble weight is fine in case allo is around that size or even a little less

It needs to be outside of the grapple threshold

Otherwise it would be far too one sided in allo’s favor and you would have to make it either slower so dibble can run or making dibble faster than it is now and make it a cera and teno bully

[edgy crow]

2.5 tonne dibble, 2.3 tonne allo

[elfin night]

Maybe

Although Allo looks pretty large

[edgy crow]

make it small

[elfin night]

As long as it cannot pin dibble we’re good

Imagine. I know you despite the Omni pin

Imagine adult dibbles suffering that fate in the hands of allo💀

Although for sure fresh adults are gonna be cooked

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-seal-sad-seal-sad-crying-seal-gif-19684439

I hope allo's pin has a method to fight back

[slim dragon]

The method is to not get pinned

[elfin night]

To be fair, facing an allo as in putting your head in that direction is likely going to be far easier than with an omni

Although, well, if it can pin it doesn’t matter…

[edgy crow]

pin mechanics suck

[elfin night]

They’re a bit lame when you die to them as of now yeah

Mostly because it feels dragged out and it is a one tap attack sometimes to things of similar size which can feel unfair with lag

[dusky surge]

if omni's doesn't why on earth would you think allo's would lol

[edgy crow]

because the things that allo will be pinning take a lot more effort to grow

cera players will be a force for good and complain hopefully

[keen plover]

Cerato doesn't take any effort to grow tbf

And its grow time is comparable to small tiers that omni pins

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[edgy crow]

Please

[elfin night]

Galli stunlocks herra, omni pins galli, allo pins omni and rex pins allo

The cycle of life

[worthy steeple]

i don’t want it to be possible to fight back the pin, i want pin to be situational attack allo could use for high stam cost, with cooldown and it should run to be able to pin something

[slim dragon]

And who pins rex ?

[worthy steeple]

humans.

[elfin night]

Its fat bum

[iron tree]

This

[crimson crater]

depends on the threshold

[iron tree]

@pure tiger pterodyctyl? 😭

[pure tiger]

I’m at work and don’t have time to look at auto correct sometimes. And it only missing 2 letters lol

[iron tree]

it's the wrong animal

I think you mean Pteranodon

[pure tiger]

Ah, will correct thanks. Has to chase someone down as I was writing it all (gotta love trespassers) so I just hit post and ran lmao

Corrected

@iron tree would this be valid tho? Almost everyone that I’ve seen play them seems to have the same stamina complaint issues. I’ve been feeling it to. Granted I’m still new to them and I’ve just recently learned a few way to help mitigate the issue but even so they still burn through stamina way to hard just to get moving

[iron tree]

yes

[stark knoll]

Ptera can stay in the air for 15+ minutes and it's still getting thermals to improve its flight time

It doesn't need more flight stam

[elfin night]

Whether or not many people complain about something doesn’t make it true though

That’s an appeal to popularity

Plus there’s also many people who are fine with ptera’s stamina

[pure tiger]

I mean as someone playing it I was feeling like it was rough before I met others so idk about speaking to popularity

[elfin night]

It’s just hard to get moving with ptera if you are constantly trying to go up manually instead of simply starting from a good place and then planning where to latch or land

Ptera can easily travel across half of the map without wasting any stamina whatsoever with the right setup (which isn’t really that hard to do)

Ptera’s flight is a very good ability but it needs some skills you might hone sooner or later (depending on whether you want to learn them) about stamina management, handling your altitude and choosing where to land/take off

You can latch to vertical surfaces which allows you to regain stamina unless it is lower than 20% and then taking off wastes zero stam. And dropping yourself from a high place allows you to start flying without wasting stamina either

There is value and it feels rewarding when a player is required to put some effort into using a certain mechanic as opposed to simply “press space to go up and go wherever you want”, you know? Also as lunary pointed out ptera is also getting air currents

[pure tiger]

I was actually gearing up to ask about latching. Glad to know I can recover if I manage it right

[elfin night]

And is gonna be less pathetic on the ground so that it doesn’t need to rely on flight for everything

[pure tiger]

Fair, I did recently learn how to get into tree branches without breaking every bone in my body and how to recover mid air to. I guess my only other point of confusion would be about fish spawn rates.

[stark knoll]

Those are definitely screwy yea

There's either a million in one spot or none at all

[pure tiger]

I know we are basically flying rats that eat what can be found but if there isn’t really anything around I’ve noticed it’s a GG situation sometimes

I have noticed at least that they show up more when more players are nearby but the threshold feels odd if there is one

[elfin night]

@coarse sentinel man I would love the idea of getting my carno killed because a maia running round me

Or having a bunch of tiny critters running around you for the debuff when you are larger

Such a great and thoughtful idea

[pure tiger]

I’m not sure I understand the mix packing issues people are taking about to cause wanting proxy debuffs.

I had assumed the concept of co-existence and targeted hunting/stalking would be a core concept

[elfin night]

I despise the idea of mixpack debuffs and I don’t know why there are so many suggestions like that now

I don’t want any rules or debuffs against mixpacking like that

Because the earlier would just be so annoying for the staff since kids would just rage and report 5 people for mixpacking when they got third partied

And in the latter they propose extremely exploitable mechanics

[pure tiger]

I have to agree. I’m still learning the game but I know enough about wildlife that when I see mix packs I’ll just stare and go “good for them I hope it lasts”

But if penalties get put in for mix packing you know damn well that will be exploited to kill off any pack and cause major issues

[elfin night]

Devs are already working on something and hopefully it will be better than stuff like this

[pure tiger]

Oh?

[elfin night]

We don’t know much at all

They’re just doing something

[pure tiger]

Ah tracking

[indigo rain]

Punch confirmed they will be making mixpacking unviable in some form or other, so that could mean a number of things. For example (and unlikely to be used because it screws solos but it gets the idea across) same species packs within group limits might get buffs. That will encourage players to play the same dinos and avoid overpacking and mixpacking both.

[pure tiger]

I could see them doing more with their current pack mechanics. Tbh it would be fun to see what else they add to it

My only question at that point is how would the system identify mix packing?

[indigo rain]

Identifying mixpacking itself is borderline impossible, because everyones definition of mixpacking is different. Some say doing so much as just tolerating another dino a few bodylengths away is mixpacking, while others argue its only if they fight on the same side. What happens if its a 1v1v1 battle royalle? Etc

The solution (or at least the focus) is fairly simple. Encourage non mixpacking behavior. Thus, mixpacking becomes the worse choice of the two strategically and players will naturally choose not to mixpack. Thats what i meant in my earlier post. I was only using (and pointed out it was flawed) an example