balance-feedback-discussion

[wanton edge]

already said this in my discussion with the other person but u can literally just dodge...

[viscid mica]

Yea but it’s the fact they got the stam and speed to hunt you for as long as they want

You either gotta jump or basically run till no stam

[wanton edge]

maiasaura and good stamina in the same sentence 💀💀

[viscid mica]

Not good but enough

[wanton edge]

shove takes like 5% stamina and does 50 dmg whilst limiting turn radius. u literally CAN just run. they can't shove u to death lol

[iron tree]

Shove is good when something is in your way

I tried to run from a cera pack yesterday and a cera tried to stop me by charging at me head one. I knocked it over and kept running

That was fun as hell

[worthy steeple]

tbf nothing stops them from just running after you till you’re out of stam and then they attack

even tho maia doesn’t have the best stam, it’s still more than enough

[wanton edge]

then they wouldn't have stam to attack either

[worthy steeple]

i will test that soon

maybe you’re right

[viscid mica]

They’d have enough to get some stompies and most people will panic attack and give them tac stam

[worthy steeple]

or they will give stam each other, but i decided not to mention the mutations, because even tho they are in the game, i by default ignore them, because i think they should be removed as well

[viscid mica]

i acknowledge them as is like or dislike

(Tac for smalls ok for the bugs very cringe)

[weary dust]

@carmine tundra I think you are on the right track but I think carnos bite isnt a stat issue but a mechanic issue, unfortunately shrinking the animal to 1300 does logically conclude its bite force could reduce,however on the oposite end this opens the door to a much better system for carno that has a faster bite speed, in the animal kindom shorter faces and strong necks result in inherantly faster biting, and what do we see on carno? A dino designed for fast precise biting, so my suggestion is simple in that omni should have a BF of 85, dilo 105, and carno 150 with dilo and carno swapping their attack speed, I also have an idea to balance charging once and for all but thats off topic

Also yeah it makes more sense to me(especially when you look at dilos long heavy face and weaker neck) that dilo would try to hit hard and run away fast, bting fast is something predators looking to pursue or get into a slug match do, dilo wants to inject its venom and get out, or bite when its clone are distracting the target which is a VERY hitandrun fighting style

[carmine tundra]

carno shouldve been buffed to 1600 kg so it can match teno and its speed reverted back to 55 but make it so it cant take any speed mutations

[dusky surge]

or just remove speed mutations lol

[iron tree]

True

[eager saddle]

Think this is one of the few mostly universally agreed upon things here ngl

[worthy steeple]

so you want them to swap the bite speed of an animal that heavily relies on charges as its main combat mechanic and source of damage with an animal that can only deal damage by biting stuff?

[worthy steeple]

no no and no. carno is 20km/h faster than the teno, why the matchup should be even? carno should absolutely suck in 1v1 against the teno, as it does tbh

carno is amazing at hunting small tiers and anything 1.3t or below. it doesn’t need any major buffs. you just need to learn how to play carno well

[cosmic pelican]

Dilo level attack speed carno would facetank a cera with ease 💀

[eager saddle]

This sounds like horror🤣

[jade prairie]

A good carno can even take on a teno, even if its rather tough

[worthy steeple]

very true, but it’s very teno sided fight

[dreamy swan]

Seriously though. A T-Rex should be a walking catastrophe.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
"Enough AI around that it can grow up and terrorize anyone stupid enough to gather a schoolyards worth of dinosaurs in one place"

If you need to rely on AI to grow a rex, you don't deserve to grow a rex

[dreamy swan]

Fair enough!

[dusky surge]

I agree, rex should be a walking catastrophe, but to a limit

[dreamy swan]

Yeah like what, a limit so that mixpacks can team up on it like everything else?

[dusky surge]

I mean... If it can't win against them, it can't win against them

[dreamy swan]

We need an in-game weapon against mixpacks. There's no way to police it out of game

[dusky surge]

Rex beats like... Everything easily besides than stego

[dreamy swan]

I honestly think that's the ideal punishment for gathering in big silly groups like that. Let a T-Rex charge in with his bottomless hunger and wipe them out. Of course, the other check-and-balance for that is the fact that if his hunger level really is super crazy, if there's not enough people hanging out as mixpackers he's just going to starve to death.

[dusky surge]

Sounds kinda boring if its just an instawin

[dreamy swan]

So its like, he becomes the tool of justice who survives off of super-large herds

[dusky surge]

That doesn't really sound like a tool of justice as much as something to megapack with

Does rex beat everything else? Yes? Then just form megapacks of rex to murder everything

[dreamy swan]

how would a megapack survive??

[dusky surge]

"Enough AI around that it can grow up and terrorize anyone stupid enough to gather a schoolyards worth of dinosaurs in one place"

[dreamy swan]

would take too much food if his hunger was jacked up

[dusky surge]

That's how

[dreamy swan]

well i already agreed with you that if you can't survive on the ai as it is now you don't deserve to have a rex

[worthy steeple]

i really hope the stego will be able to stun the rex, i don’t see how it can survive it any other way

[dusky surge]

Hopefully

Rex can't be unbeatable, because that's an unengaging battle

Like just kinda not fun

[dreamy swan]

This game's biggest problem is mixpacking. One overpowered, insatiably hungry super predator would be enough to keep everyone on their toes

The key is excessive hunger. Like its an eating machine and can only survive if there's huge quantities of food available. So its like a high risk high reward type of dino

So if there's no unreasonably sized packs of dinosaurs around its really difficult to survive as a rex

Like when wolves were reintroduced to yellowstone

[dusky surge]

Then doesn't that seem kinda... boring? Like your entire gameplay is relying on people standing still in a big herd and not fighting back

[dreamy swan]

they balanced out the ecosystem, changed the entire park.

[crimson crater]

i don’t think it’ll need to stun it, if the rex gets close the steg can just spam the power swing

[dreamy swan]

Why wouldn't they fight back?

[dusky surge]

Because they'll lose lol

The hell is anything but a stego doing against rex

[dreamy swan]

I'm not saying make the Rex invincible, but tough enough that if it charges your herd most people are going to try and GTFO

He needs to be able to break up the riff raff

[worthy steeple]

with 9k health it can tank one power swing and then pin stego to the ground

[dusky surge]

But like... He'd do that regardless of anything

He's over 9000kg. Most creatures in a mixpack can't do jack against a rex

[dreamy swan]

Well thats good though

[hazy lark]

Im pretty sure its been said its Rex and Trike at apex. idk where the steggo stuff is coming from.

[dreamy swan]

Exception being a megapack of like carnos

[dusky surge]

Stego needs to be expected to survive threats

[dreamy swan]

which really a carno megapack is almsot the same mechanic as a rex

[dusky surge]

And I doubt stego is outrunning rex because that sounds dumb

[dreamy swan]

They're big enough and hungry enough that they can charge in and disrupt mixpacking

noooo i love stegos funny little waddle haha

[hazy lark]

it can survive many threats. it hasnt had a real threat since evrima dropped. its funny seeing eveyrone flip out at the idea that could end

[dusky surge]

Most of that mixpack can just... Run away and continue mixpacking tho

[dusky surge]

No other creature has a situation where they just lose instantly on sight with a predator

[hazy lark]

true. only predators against prey lmao

[dreamy swan]

Yeah that's true. I miss the legacy footprints. Easy to follow a giant pack of dinosaurs. Now you can barely track anything

[dusky surge]

Nothing should be expected to instantly die on sight with a predator

[hazy lark]

Hold me deino

[dreamy swan]

lol except me apparently? I get one shotted all the time

[dusky surge]

Step away from water and ez

[worthy steeple]

you can avoid it

[hazy lark]

Like i said before. rex and trike at apex is what ive seen

[dusky surge]

Depends on growth, circumstance and overall skill

[crimson crater]

and?

[dusky surge]

Which is absolutely fine, stego should just be able to survive both of them

[hazy lark]

the idea steggo cant possibly be beaten 1v1 is just eird

[dusky surge]

Not the idea at all

The idea is stego should not be worthless in a 1v1

[dreamy swan]

Yeah I agree. Stego should be a big, slow tank.

[dusky surge]

This game isn't black nd white

[crimson crater]

“but stego is significantly smaller than rex therefore should always lose to it”

[dreamy swan]

true

[dusky surge]

It's not just you either 100% win or 100% lose

[hazy lark]

you want it scaled to defend against a much bigger predator. Youre coping to justify making a steggo with a head smaller than a raptor, able to battle a rex lmao

[dusky surge]

Then make stego faster

[hazy lark]

some match ups you juist lose man. thats the way it is

[dusky surge]

it'd look stupid as hell but it'd balance it out

[hazy lark]

welcome to the isle

[dusky surge]

name one

[hazy lark]

lol this again

[dusky surge]

legit name one

"this again", literally name one

[hazy lark]

you said last time for me to name one

then admitted minutes later "i can only think of 2". im not engaging in this dishonesty

[dreamy swan]

A skilled stego should definitely be able to go toe-to-toe with a rex realistically. In paleontology Stego lived with top tier predators and was designed to face off with them.

[dusky surge]

so you cant name one

you must be thinking of someone else because i have no recollection of this lol

[hazy lark]

pachy cera lmao

pt vs herra lol

raptor vs steggo lol

theres alot more. dont be silly

usually a larger opponent has the advantage... youre just used to being the largest and the idea that changes against your favour is too much to handle i guess

[dreamy swan]

There should be a chess-like aspect to the strategy in this game, and I think mixpacking should have some built-in disadvantages. The Rex would be a great catalyst for that. Megapacking carnos or ceratos is another.

[crimson crater]

pt can escape herreras, pachy can run away from ceras etc

[dusky surge]

Pachy can (normally) outrun a cera. Mutations don't count because it's well established they destroy balance

Ptera can... Fly??? Like what??? The hell does a herrera do against a flying ptera lmao

Raptor v stego is hysterical who is it that's supposed to be helpless here because stego can one-tap raptor and raptor can easily outrun stego.

[dreamy swan]

ive killed a stego as raptor and it wasn't super hard. I'm fairly certain its because the stego was inexperienced

[worthy steeple]

🗿

[dreamy swan]

and/or maybe he was weak from another battle. who knows

[worthy steeple]

it’s a rare moment of larger carnivore hunting smaller herbivore

[slim dragon]

Ok but
What if a mixpacker plays rex

goodbye mixpack solution

[dusky surge]

LMAO

true tho

[keen plover]

This is so wrong though. Like blatantly wrong

There’s a chance to escape / fight back in any matchup

[tropic horizon]

Make it like .1 kilometers faster like the teno cera matchup thing

It would look dumb but itd work out in the end

[hazy lark]

well mutations are in the game currently, so they very much count despite any feelings otherwise.

I see where youre coming from, i was talking about combat 1v1.. not running away. Didnt see what you meant so mb, and to that I say. Hypsi vs basically anything. Dryo vs basically anything. Idc if they arent played, or whatever. They are examples of "lose on sight". At least steggo wins most others i guess. All im saying is idk how its gonna shake out... but apex means the top. You aint the top if youre losing to a non apex. How thats balanced.. who knows, but its been said Rex and trike on top.

[slim dragon]

It's a survival game, not a fighting game

Dying is losing
Running away is a valid form of survival

[hazy lark]

yes and i said i misunderstood that point

[slim dragon]

"losing on sight" means an animal cannot win in a fight, nor can it avoid the fight
Which is bad

[hazy lark]

hypsi or dryo. Prey animals losing on sight

[slim dragon]

Both of them can avoid most threats and are pretty good at hiding
Hypsi does have situations where it's very hard to escape, but mind both of them are unfinished and lack their most important mechanic (burrowing and climbing respectively)

[hazy lark]

we said on "sight"

[slim dragon]

You can break line of sight and hide after being spotted

[hazy lark]

m8 its slower, weaker.

youre relying on chance not reality. They die on sight lol. Its why no one really plays them i guess

fits under cant run/ cant fight

[slim dragon]

It's because they lack their most important mechanic

[hazy lark]

theres always some specific moment where you can say it doesnt apply.. but they just lose. They are prey

[slim dragon]

Yes there are specific situations
But nothing in this game is supposed to have literally no way to survive against a specific other playable

Of course if you're playing omni and you just fell from a cliff, broke your leg and survived with 1 hp you may die to one hypsi without being able to run away
Doesn't mean omni dies on sight to hypsi

[hazy lark]

dryo vs raptor

[slim dragon]

again, dryo can escape by breaking line of sight and hiding, and AGAIN, dryo still lacks its most important mechanic

The speed difference between dryo and raptor isn't huge

[hazy lark]

they are in the game currently and lose on sight with those predators the majority of the time. One offs where you slip away dont count. Its why they arent played along with missing mechanics or whatever.

[slim dragon]

Still, that's not something to take as granted or that should stay that way

[hazy lark]

im not argueing for it either way lmao

[worthy steeple]

they don’t, and even if they did it’s not like it’s a good thing

[hazy lark]

sure m8

[bronze rapids]

Idk man I have survived as a Dryo from most carnivores in the game, Dryo is pretty good at hiding/ breaking line of sight :)

[frosty heron]

With the charged swing pretty sure Stego will be able to fight back Rex, BUT we always need to take player skill into consideration here, because if we talk about equal knowledge as example Teno has sighly advantage over Cerato

Also Rex has an ambush mechanic that favours it for a proper engagement, if you get ambushed from a creature as big as Rex you deserve at least be on disvantage during the hunt

[steep echo]

'one offs where you slip away dont count' a ton of the foliage in this game is for the express purpose of breaking line of sight, I don't see how it doesn't count

[iron tree]

I don't think stego needs its head to deal with predators

[elfin night]

Maia struggling to fight dilo packs is so 😭 😭 😭

They will simply never allow you to switch stances

[iron tree]

You can't run from them either

[viscid mica]

Run away

Most of not all except stego of the large herbi struggle to fight packs of the smalls

Maia is plenty strong

And with its speed if it’s any stronger it’ll become op

[elfin night]

it cant from dilos unless you got muts they dont

so if you try to run instead of holding your ground you might get locked into bipedal position

[viscid mica]

Only things that is faster that Maia is galli isn’t it

[elfin night]

nope

dilo, carno and galli are all faster

and mutated omni too

[worthy steeple]

dilo is slightly faster, like 1km/h faster

tho i’m not gonna say maia is having easy time fighting the dilos it’s definitely not that bad

i’ll be honest, i miss HT maias agility, but it was too op.

imo the only way for maia to have that agility in biped and stay balanced is to remove its ability to stun anything bigger that dilo.
and that could work and make it better as a playable or might actually make it too powerful, idk really, i’d be glad to test that

but i sadly can’t, since we can’t change dinos stats and test stuff

[edgy crow]

that's a cursed idea

[worthy steeple]

ikr

[edgy crow]

is it wrong for me to want maia to be able to knockdown ceras and carnos

[cosmic pelican]

💀

[edgy crow]

only with the shove, tho, not with the standing one

thats a bit OP

[cosmic pelican]

You technically can knock them down already

[worthy steeple]

in quad? ofc, it should be able to do that

[cosmic pelican]

The front shove while running at full speed is stronger

[edgy crow]

yea

[worthy steeple]

i was talking about buffing biped to ht level of agility but instead removing ability to stun anything bigger that dilo.

so maia uses biped for smaller dinos
and quad for bigger dinos

but again, i have no idea how it will work, it might be very bad, i’d be glad to test that

[edgy crow]

intriguing...

[worthy steeple]

tho tbh i don’t mind the current maia, its not as bad as people say it is

or actually

you know what they should add to maias kit? the trample damage

that would help it a lot

but it should only work on things that are small and not in group.
so basically any omni/dilo will get trampled by maia

[haughty grotto]

@steep echo bites are always in front
If you're turning your head right and attack, it will not hit a target to your right unless you alt attack

[steep echo]

Eeeeeehhh... in my experience it has been based on head angle

[haughty grotto]

Idk how else to tell you man, you've had it wrong this entire time I guess

The way you posted that body shot pic
Try standing the same way against the head
Perpendicular 90 degrees
It will hit

[steep echo]

An example I can think of off the top of my head is trying to bite a troodon that's right up to your face. If you don't look down, the attack goes over them (as dryo)

[haughty grotto]

Correct that applies for most things

[steep echo]

so you mean its just for left and right?

[haughty grotto]

But here's the bottom line: hitbox doesn't change if you pan your camera left and right
It'll always be front

Unless it's an alt attack (in settings make sure manual alt attack is checked on) - in that case your dino will do a whole new directional attack

[steep echo]

herra I was with is long gone, but I just did the whole left right thing with a troodon, no alt bites

same thing occurred, no damage facing forwards but damage done facing right

[shadow vortex]

Tbh I think adding this element of limited ‘direction changing’ to normal attacks too (depending on the head position, left or right) would allow for more hunting tactics, which imho could be interesting to try at least 🧐

[fresh sand]

@dim prism it just doesnt work, true mixers will just send in their faster creatures to debuff people then come in and fight them after. Any system of debuffs for mixpacking will be abused.

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @languid sparrow carno dosent have a cool-down on the charge

and if you’re referring to the old 20 second one, why should cera get butchered like that lol

[carmine tundra]

it does

after you ram something you can try running again and you cant ram for another solid 1-2 seconds

which is still plenty of time to get back into position to ram them again which i dont mind

[cosmic pelican]

You can keep holding rmb to nullify the cooldown

[iron tree]

nah

they should leave carno finally alone

[worthy steeple]

that’s what i was about to say.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah that’s how you make cera trash…

[carmine tundra]

no

carnos growth time is horrible, and it still consumes meat like its still 1.8 kg

[crimson crater]

nah they want cera nerfed not carno

[iron tree]

naur

"same as carno"

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message let the deterrent actually be impactful, what’s the point of it, if it dosent dissuade something from picking a fight with a cerato? its frustrating yes as it should be

[sly hemlock]

I shouldn't win a fight and feel like I lost. Winning a team fight against Ceratos will typically leave the victors with less food and water than they started with, which makes no sense. I'm not saying to remove it, just reduce it from being basically your ENTIRE hunger/thirst bar to something more reasonable like 50/60%

[crimson crater]

that’s kinda the point of its mechanic, not worth fighting it

[sly hemlock]

I don't see how that's a fun gameplay loop

[crimson crater]

it isn’t, it’s annoying

[sly hemlock]

It doesn't benefit the Cerato

[crimson crater]

it does

[sly hemlock]

If a Cerato attacks me and I manage to win the fight, by the time I've healed up the bleed I will most likely be on less than 5% thirst, at which point I am helplessly sprinting towards the closest water source and praying to god nothing tries to fight me or is in/around the water.

[sly hemlock]

I think the benefit remains roughly the same from 90% to 60%

(I don't know the exact % it drains 90% is a guess)

[cosmic pelican]

Youre left at 25% food and water after vomiting

And each time you vomit you lose 20% of your nutrients

[sly hemlock]

Alright, so taking into account this happens at the beginning of the fight you'll probably be left with around 10-15% hunger by the end of the fight, then taking into account healing bleed you'd be at the range of 5-10% right?

The nutrient drain is fine

[crimson crater]

yea the deterrent should make you want to disengage to get food and water

[cosmic pelican]

Thats still a net positive, and vomiting will help you get even more nutrients than what you had before

[sly hemlock]

I don't follow, I don't think anyone would want to engage in the first place

[jade prairie]

It actually does benefit the cera because they use it to:
Dissuade you from picking fights with it (avoiding a fight is a fight survived)
Persuade you to leave any carcass youre nearby
If they are clever they can follow a weakened herbivore and get you while you are trying to eat or drink

[crimson crater]

yes, the deterrent is there to dissuade things from trying to hunt it

[sly hemlock]

But the deterrant is unchanged from reducing the amount

Having it as high as it is leans into being excessive

It's unnecessarily punishing

[cosmic pelican]

Only if you dont kill the cerato after, if you do, you actually make insane value for later, plus the minor inconvenience of needing to get water

[sly hemlock]

In a team fight, you end up with less food than you started with

[cosmic pelican]

For example?

Even 4-5 omnis can eat themselves to full from 1 cerato body

Even 2 carnos can stay well fed

[sly hemlock]

Let's imagine 3 Carnos vs 4 Ceras.

3 Carnos enter the fight with 80% food/water.
They're all forced to vomit and a Cerato dies so the other 3 disengage.

They're now going to be at a net negative for food and all be desparate for water

[cosmic pelican]

Should not have taken that fight, simple as that, the carnos get punished for letting the other 3 run

[sly hemlock]

A lot of servers follow body down ruling

And as such you cannot pursue the other adults

[sly hemlock]

If the Carnos for example have a juvi, they are forced to take the fight to save the Juvi.

[cosmic pelican]

Special server rules should not be taken into account, the devs balance the game based on official servers

[sly hemlock]

If the Carnos were to pursue the other 3 in most scenarios they'd probably bleed themselves out.

[cosmic pelican]

Unless its a literally fresh spawn, less than 10 minute old carno, even in the worst case scenario it can charge away, their charge speed reaches 42.2kmh insanely fast

[crimson crater]

then don’t pursue

[sly hemlock]

Which was my point

So now you are at a net negative and desperate for water

[cosmic pelican]

Unless they all took nearly fatal hits themselves that wont happen

Besides, carnos that know what theyre doing shouldnt be getting hit anyway, especially if they have a group

[sly hemlock]

I don't understand the idea of pushing a dino in a direction where nobody wants or enjoys fighting it.

[cosmic pelican]

3 carnos can go bowling with ceras, unless they fight in a forest, but at that point, just dont take the fight

[sly hemlock]

I refer to my previous point

If a dino revolves around being the most unenjoyable dino to fight, is that not terrible for game balance?

Does that not instantly scream there should be change?

[cosmic pelican]

Stego can be unenjoyable to fight as well with the current roster, yet it doesnt mean that its unbalanced.

[crimson crater]

it dosen’t make it overpowered

[sly hemlock]

Who said it was overpowered?

I said it's a blatantly unfun mechanic

And you seem to agree

[cosmic pelican]

Same is with cera, the bigger carnivores that are supposed to push it back to where it belongs just arent in the game yet

[crimson crater]

implications. you said that its terrible for the game balance

[sly hemlock]

I think Stego is highly unbalanced within the current roster but that's a debate for another time

[crimson crater]

yea allosaurus

[sly hemlock]

Gaming is a recreational activity, if something is not fun then it fundamentally lacks proper balance.

[cosmic pelican]

If you look at it from a deathmatch pvp perpective yes, but from a survival perspective, no.

[sly hemlock]

I think Cera is fairly balanced, I think vomiting takes away an egregiously excessive amount of food + water

[cosmic pelican]

I refer to this.
The things that are supposed to have an advantageous matchup vs cera just dont exist yet.

[sly hemlock]

I don't have an issue with how it plays out in a fight though

It's purely the famine simulator

[cosmic pelican]

The carnivores that are in the game right now are the same ones cerato was designed to bully

[cosmic pelican]

Think about it, the better your matchup is with cerato, the less likely it'll make you vomit since you'll probably end the fight quicker.

[sly hemlock]

I think it's a perfectly valid argument for the balance of a PvP matchup, but not relevant to the argument at hand

If as you say it does reduce you to 25% hunger + thirst, I simply advocate for it to be changed to 40% or even 30/35%

That is all

[cosmic pelican]

🥔 👍

[carmine tundra]

cera should run slower when doing charge bite and give it a cooldown everytime it bites, but the buff would be making cera's charge bite last forever

cera should be a dino where it stands its ground not use the charge bite in active hunting when chasing something

[sly hemlock]

I'd like to clarify my balance change proposed is purely to do with the amount of food + water taken from vomiting and not to do with nerfing Ceras in combat.

[sharp patrol]

the problem with the vomit as a deterrent is that whats it deterring atm? cerato is arguably the strongest carnivore rn or its atleast between it and dilo, so there is no bigger thing to deter from attacking it

[iron tree]

@raven mist the devs said they're going to release stuff when it's done instead of holding stuff back

And rex will also get the job done

[raven mist]

Yeah I did hear that. I didn’t know if they want to release all 3 together or not. Don’t know what the plan is

However just an idea around mid tiers for carnivores since the apex’s will cause mayhem on release and to make sure it’s a bit more balanced instead of pick apex carni or play herbivore

[iron tree]

Doubt it

You can just w + shift and survive an apex

[dusky surge]

allo sounds like it'd cause more mayhem then rex tbh

[edgy crow]

its gonna be easier to grow and just as rewarding if it gets a group pin mechanic like omni

[mint star]

depends on if it has AI in its diet or not

if it has AI like boar or deer then itll be rather easy start growing an allo

but if it has a diet that changes as it gets older, or no AI at all, then that might actually prove it to be a challenge

[edgy crow]

this could apply to rex as well

[mint star]

i would ONLY put boar AI on juvenile rex's diet, and after it grows large enough it loses it

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message

well if we ignore the cerato itself as a playable and think just about the mechanic...
so is it fair for another player to bite you 1-3 times to drain almost all your water, hunger, give you vomit sickness, drain your stamina as well and lock you in animation at the same time?
and after the first vomit it would need to bite you just once to make you vomit again and drain even more of your stamina bar.

is that a good mechanic? is it fun to deal with? is it necessary for cera to have it? is it just a defensive tool or cera does use it mostly in offense?

just asking community opinion

[dusky surge]

I think it very much indicates what cera is SUPPOSED to do

Why fight a cerato over food when it can make you lose it, and more

Put it on top of good stam efficiency, speed and agility, and suddenly it becomes a better tool to stop things from getting away

[worthy steeple]

thats a good argument.

[versed sable]

dibble basically just spam stuns stego side and kills it

[iron tree]

Power swing:

[maiden ginkgo]

If you don't play Troodon, you should. Then go give a ✅ to my suggestion.

You'll understand then lol.

Troodon should be able to get diet from successful pounces (I like the idea of below 50% food for this)

I also feel they should be able to eat mushrooms, the little scavengers. Though not past 50% growth otherwise they become less fun.

They definately have a niche, but are also die with one shot from most dino's (not an issue) they also don't deal much damage but do have a minor poison (not like dillo)

[eager saddle]

Why…..would they get diet from pouncing prey?

Do they chip off some flesh while pouncing? You mean like that?

[iron tree]

That wouldn't fit troodon at all

It's a nocturnal pack hunter

[vale brook]

i play troodon

❌

[maiden ginkgo]

Yes, as opportunistic scavengers it makes a great ramp up, even if it's a sliver it will push more agressive play from troodons that haven't eaten in a while giving more options.

It's also almost impossible to get a perfect diet before 50% due to mostly how fast they grow.

[maiden ginkgo]

Ok, do you have an alternative suggestion?

[vale brook]

yeah, improve venom and stamina consumption across the board for troodon to allow it to exahust its prey, etc etc. dont give it abilities that dont fit what it is.

i would be interested in troodon becoming an omnivore though and allowing it to eat select plants (ideally the fruit ones)

[worthy steeple]

when will people stop asking to do something with the mixpackers, imo if you dont want to play with the mixpackers just play on the servers with the low rules.

you're playing on anarchy no rules server and asking people to follow your imaginary rules lmao. i never mixpack. but i love freedom. i dont want to get punished for sitting next to random friendly beipi i dont want to kill.

[indigo rain]

Ngl the fix for cera to stop using vomit as a hunting tactic and only as a deterrent could be to not have vomit stunlock you so prey can just keep running. Cera doesnt have a bonebreak or grab. Why should it effectively function like it has that? However being punished for simply existing and not competing over a body is a problem. So another fix could be to make bacteria drain very quickly so ceras are going from body to body to get it back to defend said body, and or have to hunt like a normal predator without an ad-hoc grapple + stats drain. Because lets not forget its not just draining food, water, stam, its draining diets and debuffing you as a result on top of that.

[viscid mica]

@proper berry personally wanna wait and see how it preforms against bigger carni

Cuz to my understanding cera is set to be the land bully of all small tiers(in this context under 2T) and the buff is intended to make it even give some mid tiers (2T+) a run for their money

[maiden ginkgo]

Nice I like that. Definately have poison hit stam a bit on it's target.

My point for the diet on pounce was to match similar hit and run tactics, I don't want it to be above anything usefull but to give a bit of a risk reward for daring play - especially when starving as it follows with the intelligence and tactics of a troodon (or velociraptor)

[eternal iris]

@proper berry rather it be the complete opposite. Nerf other aspects of it and lean into it being strong specifically when contesting/defending bodies

Why diminish what makes it unique just for it to be further pushed into being a generic all-arounder brawl carnivore

[viscid mica]

A lot of stuff isn’t balanced towards the current roaster leave it until bigger stuff comes so we can better feel it

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message yeah let’s just take away the only thing that tangibly makes it a defensive corpse bully scavenger

[worthy steeple]

that guy blocked me for downvoting his feedback

says a lot

[elfin night]

Kids

Also the math is wrong

[worthy steeple]

yes, it is

[elfin night]

It gets 1300 extra hp , you take half the damage, you don’t have 50% more health

[worthy steeple]

yes

[hasty coyote]

that seems to be the strategy people arer using, if you block everyone who disagrees, then you will only have ✅

even though that does nothing but help with ego since the amount of checks doesnt even matter

[worthy steeple]

yes, i’ve noticed that happening, it’s so funny to me

[worthy steeple]

yes. exactly

[slow heart]

that is WILD

some people can’t handle the idea that maybe they are wrong or their opinion isn’t the best. that is criminal lol

Yo btw, since we have so many pros in here maybe someone can tell me. wtf is up with omni bleed? shyt is weak asf. the pounce damage doesn’t seem to be consistent.

made a dedicated server with my brother to test out damage.

a full grown omni can pin and kill another full grown omni in 1 pounce.

But a full stamina bar of pounce on a stego brings it from 100% -> 99% blood.

had to do like 8 FULL stam bars of pounce to get him like 75%. so right now omni’s just can’t kill stego? am i missing something?

[stark knoll]

Did you hold RMB?

And yea stego is designed to need a large group to take down

[cosmic pelican]

A full stam dmg pounce does exactly 1k dmg.
A full stam bleed pounce can bleed out a carno if it keeps moving.

Pounce is NOT weak.

[tacit ether]

Also with dmg pounce (LMB) you can kill a fg dilo and pachy just by riding it and using dmg, a fg carno you can drop its health 50% with LMB so imagine if you had two raptors it’s dead. RMB does double the bleed of what just regular pouncing would do iirc, and bucking will reduce the damage done and drain both the pouncer and buckers stamina. Pounce is infact not weak it’s just a tool to utilize.

[indigo rain]

The irony with blocking people is they might agree with you on other points. Someone blocked me and i noticed because i tried to ✅ two diff suggestions and it went nah. So welp

Net loss in the end

[maiden ginkgo]

A lot of people seem to hate the idea of giving troodon a niche ability.

[raven mist]

If a single raptor could bleed out a FG Stego easily then I’d be questioning the game design

[maiden ginkgo]

I definately agree with that.

[swift wind]

omni has ass matchups against any larger creature i dont understand the resistance to omni buffs in balance feedback

partly in due to the hitboxes being ass

[elfin night]

Omni pounce is the last thing of its kit that needs a buff

It is one of the best special abilities in its weight class, only bested by dilo’s currently which is buggy

You have a safe instakill on anything that is marginally lighter than you with one button press, you can leave things like ceras and carnos seriously wounded if not dead, you can pin down things larger than you by latching onto something in group, its super easy to aim, it has no commitment if you miss…

It’s not even the only thing omni has in its kit. It can also bite, not all kills have to be with the damn pounce

[swift wind]

not implying pounce needs a buff just responding to the overwhelming rejection of calls for an omni buff in the balance feedback

dilos have it beat on dmg hp and speed

carnos have it beat there too, and omni doesnt have a workable agility advantage over carnos considering the terrible hitbox for carno attacks negates any successful dodges by the omni

[raven mist]

Yeah the only thing I can agree on is nerfing dilo speed

They don’t need to be that fast with the kit they have already plus mutation buff. I think they are finding it hard, if any of the devs actively play and see the state of the game, to see where the low tiers sit.

[swift wind]

dilo definitely needs a speed nerf considering its other strengths but i think omni could benefit from a buff to stam or speed or a small buff to both

[viscid mica]

Could be worse could be a fsh suggestion bro got half the server blocked

[sharp patrol]

Ik which is crazy

[dusky surge]

remove the mutation buff, don't nerf dilo's speed, dilo needs that speed to escape omni, because it lacks any defensive power whatsoever

dilo has honestly one of the worst self-defence in the game. It needs speed for survival

[raven mist]

It’s kinda hard with micro tweaks on these lower tiers, I feel like dilo is already quite strong they don’t need to get away from raptors. Dilos can contest even ceras. Correct me if I’m wrong I can’t remember if there have been any changes but dilos have more bite force, they are faster and they have a pretty overwhelming ability with venom. I think they can take a little nerf to speed or we can buff omni stamina especially when pouncing. I think that’s fair.

[dusky surge]

they do have better bite force and venom, but they also have what i believe to be one of the absolute worst bite hitboxes in the entire game, on top of terrible agility, no resistances, no jump and so on

the venom is exceptionally overwhelming, yes, but it honestly needs to be really balanced out because it's far too OP atm. I don't think raptor needs any stam buffs as much as dilo needs venom readjusted to actually have counterplay

[swift wind]

better speed than omni, better hp than omni, better dmg than omni, hallucinations...

there agility isnt even bad, dilo has an advantages matchup in every way. it can escape when it wants and it can hunt when it wants. omni cant do either of those things and gets beaten in a brawl... it doesnt need speed advantage over omni

[dusky surge]

their agility is def bad, especially for its size

and given its lower stam and agility, as well as inability to jump, i say it def does need the speed advantage

[swift wind]

it is not bad enough that an omni can get around the sides like with a carno

if the dilo player is somewhat competent

it is unfair to give all the cards to the dilo, he gets to choose when to run, when to fight, and is a better brawler in every way

[dusky surge]

i mean... he isn't a better brawler. he lacks any defensive resistances, has a worse turn radius and has an inaccurate bite, alongside a slow and mostly useless alt-bite

like by the metrics of what a brawler represents, dilo sucks

[worthy steeple]

it’s not better brawler, i wouldn’t really even call it a brawler

[swift wind]

my point is that a competent dilo player is not hindered enough by the worse agility that an omni player can effectively leverage the omnis agility advantage

therefore it is effectively just trading blows, which the dilo will win

when i say it is a better brawler i am arguing in comparison to omni for the above reason

[worthy steeple]

can’t call a brawler 700kg animal with poor agility, no special attack or abilities outside of biting and pressing rmb to spawn the clones

[swift wind]

^

[keen plover]

Carno's hitbox is fine. The issue is that the a creature running at like 60km/h with an active hitbox will cause some issues. Latency just screws you over every time.

[dusky surge]

honestly i never understood why people wanna go at dilo's basestats when that's literally never been the problem with it

[keen plover]

Charge isn't a fair mechanic to face

[worthy steeple]

well omni is one of the best brawlers in the game i’d say

[dusky surge]

ehhhh

[worthy steeple]

i mean..

[swift wind]

lol

[dusky surge]

ehhhhhhhh

[worthy steeple]

it has a lot of potential, alright?

[dusky surge]

pachy? teno? cera? dibble?

all better brawlers

[keen plover]

Tbf even if dilo was slower, it would win the fight 1 v 1

[swift wind]

thats what i mean, latency will always mess with you and nullify any agility advantage that omni has

[worthy steeple]

what makes it a good brawler is mainly its agility, good omni can do some funny things

[worthy steeple]

oh definitely not the pachy tho, i can agree with the rest

[keen plover]

Yeah I can agree there. More of a Carno issue sadly

[worthy steeple]

pachy is kinda meh

[keen plover]

Omni does need some buffs imo though.

[swift wind]

💯 ‼️ 🔥 👍🏻

[dusky surge]

pachy is meh but it's still a better brawler than omni imho

[worthy steeple]

idk really, i don’t want an omni to get any buffs, its pretty strong right now

[swift wind]

PRETTY STRONG!!!!!

made me laugh cheers for that

[worthy steeple]

yes? anything >450 kg dies instantly to you. best agility in the game. grapple mechanic, pounce does a lot of damage, good bleeder for its size.

pretty fast as well

[swift wind]

matchups against anything below your weight are pretty irrelevant considering you are rarely going to be fighting them

[keen plover]

I want there to be less terrain that can knock you & for them to be running into those limited objects to knock you off. No more standing around by a bush lol.
I want bucking to be better. Possibly make it to where the prey loses no stamina.
I want omni to bite faster.
I want omni to get the scramble ability from its concept art.

[worthy steeple]

well idk, using terrain is like the best thing you can do to survive and you should abuse the mechanic. imo it’s good that you can easily use the tree or a wall to get omni off of you

[keen plover]

I disagree. Omni's are effectively useless in 90% of the map. Even the "plains" have objects to camp

[worthy steeple]

especially when 2-3 omnis pouncing you is insta grapple for a lot of creatures

which is a death sentence without engaging the fight

[dusky surge]

scramble ability is my most wanted omni buff

[worthy steeple]

same, i really want it

[dusky surge]

terrain and niche versatility over boring combat statbuffs 🙏

[keen plover]

I would say that's pretty rare. Happened to me once tbh since grapple was added. Purely because terrain is so easy to abuse

It isn't even a skill thing. It's just a hard counter that's everywhere

I personally find it to be unfun

[keen plover]

Honestly same lol

[worthy steeple]

i got grappled only once tbh, it was during the dibble ht when they just added the mechanic, i didn’t know how it worked so i instantly lost my fg teno.

tho there was a bug where you could attack even when you’re getting grappled. and i killed one of them xd

tho it didn’t save, i still died

since then i always hug the walls or the trees, since you just don’t have enough time to buck them off before they all latch on you. tho it’s not like bucking is even useful

[keen plover]

Omni just doesn't feel like a threat as is. Even big packs. Even at its worst, you could counter it so easily as most animals and it leads to the most boring fights imaginable.

I genuinely don't see the point of picking omni when stuff like dilo are more effective at its role. I see them as spectator dinos.

[swift wind]

very ture

[worthy steeple]

different play styles, but dilo is also busted

[keen plover]

I'm not even arguing about it from the omni POV. I don't play omni too often if at all. Not my type of playable. It's just sad seeing them as a teno or anything else lol

Dilo's bring some form of fear lol. Omni is a punching bag

[swift wind]

good to see someone has sympathy for the downtrodden and oppressed amongst us

[worthy steeple]

tbf even when you can’t pounce stuff you still can bite, omnis in packs are danger for sure, like if you’re a lone cera and omnis found you in plains they will just insta grapple you without any chances to fight back

[golden root]

omni bot

[worthy steeple]

but if it hugs the wall or the tree you can still run around it and bite

[golden root]

una mordida que no hace daño

[worthy steeple]

i think an omni is actually well balanced, it’s more of the rest of the roster issue, like some dinos are clearly a lot stronger than they should be, the dilo and cera are the best examples

[keen plover]

Omni is meant to be a big game hunter. Conceptually going after stuff like stego in full packs. It's genuinely laughable how little fear anything around teno size + fear against it lol. I remember bodying 10+ as a solo teno purely because of terrain.

Get 2 dilos and I would have been gone

[worthy steeple]

this is from yesterday, 15 dead omnis, 12 of them were adults, all killed by me

i was never even yellow health or below 70% bleed

[keen plover]

💀

[swift wind]

i cant think of anything larger than omni that omni has a balanced matchup against, that in my opinion is an omni issue not an everything else issue

[keen plover]

Also omni isn't good against herds. Why can't it be good against SOLO players in PACKS.

[worthy steeple]

and idk if that’s player issue or playable issue, since sometimes i’m having hard time 1v1ing omnis on death match servers

like it’s genuinely difficult, maybe it’s just a rare tryhard breed

[swift wind]

if you play on a deathmatch server youre going to find pvp sweats

i dont think thats a good way to base your balance of a dino

[keen plover]

^

[worthy steeple]

i think it’s because omni is not suppose to have even matchups against something bigger, it’s a pack hunter after all, even tho in theory you can kill a cera or a carno as a single omni it just doesn’t really sound realistic

[keen plover]

PvP fights are also... not realistic to survival

[worthy steeple]

fair point tbh, tho potential always matters, it’s not like those players are isolated, you can always find them on survival servers too

[swift wind]

omni cant hunt in packs

very rare success

[worthy steeple]

yes, survival fights and death match fights are absolutely not the same

[swift wind]

maybe you can get a fresh spawn dibble if youre lucky

[worthy steeple]

well idk, people say the carno is weak and i just go and 2v1 ceras with the body

so i guess it depends on experience, maybe some luck and coordination

i wouldn’t really say omni is weak in packs, it’s very strong.

[keen plover]

Cerato just isn't worth hunting as is.

[worthy steeple]

it’s definitely not, tho i do it all the time, i hate ceratos, it doesn’t matter how many times i will vomit, i will kill it.

[keen plover]

Low skill playable that only needs to bite you once to puke you and then you're on orange-red health after the next bite or 2

[swift wind]

i have had roughly 10-12 omnis fight 3 carnos multiple times before and omnis always lose

similar results when fighting dilos

[keen plover]

omni is harder to use than any of those playables. But the reward is also worse lol

[worthy steeple]

oh that just sounds unrealistic, i don’t see how omnis can loose that tbh.. carno will probably run out of stamina before they could kill you all

[swift wind]

carnos do not have to kill them all, they rarely have in these fights, but the carnos have to kill/disable just a few to allow the numbers imbalance to feel negligable

[worthy steeple]

omni is high risk low reward playable tbh. but at the same time it has kind of a brain dead mechanic called “pounce” and it can be very effective

[tacit ether]

these raptor arugments are laughable, just because you grapple something doesnt mean its insta dead, the first raptor that pounces on is gonna lose its stamina quickly and when the second gets on they will all be bumped into a tree/bush and get stuck frozen to get spam bit before they could even escape. If you do manage to pin something its not going to die unless its a juvie or a small sub adult it will just be hurt and continue to fight. if you manage to get randoms to coordinate pounces without killing eachtother in the process then consider yourself lucky lol. the only way grapple is effective is if you find something solo in the open field that doesnt have a teamate or mixpack to come help

imo people just have raptor ptsd from spiro so they downvote all raptor stuff xD

[swift wind]

another intellectual omni sympathiser here to spit wisdom on the unenlightened

theyre not going to like this im sure

[tacit ether]

is what it is stilll gonna maul the carnos,dilos,dibbles, and ceras regardless of weakness

[raven mist]

Yeah idk why we’re still fighting against omni being as capable as a dilo reading all that

[tacit ether]

dilo can face tank a rapt ez

not complaining but the raptor has to bite and burn its stam pouncing and pinning

[dusky surge]

nothing should be as capable as what dilo is now, not even dilo

because dilo atm literally plays itself lmao

[tacit ether]

sadly dilo clones broken but 2 dilos are enough to maul anything tbh

[dusky surge]

its effectively free wins

[tacit ether]

bite a few times and run away for 8 min plus

[swift wind]

just ban people who choose dilo at this point

[raven mist]

Yeah exactly, that’s why it needs a nerf

Omni sucks and needs a bit of a buff to stand against other low tiers other being just a juvie hunter

[tacit ether]

nothing should be an even matchup but raptor is just a mosquito gets brushed off by everything, bleed is almost ineffective unless its a couple ton behemoth

then its gonna be 30min to 1hr hunt because mud camp, water camp, treecamp, wall camp, mix pack, by then other dinos going to pull up and you have no stamina to run becasue yo pounced for 10 seconds

[raven mist]

But this is just a repeat of legacy, Dilos were so disgusting in legacy. At least with Dino’s getting special abilities now they can be dealt with. But now dilo gets hallucinations that do damage and have been tweaked to be the fasted low tier

[tacit ether]

pocunign take stam jumping off takes stam now youre below 40% stamina

get run down by a cera o7

[dusky surge]

i mean... galli lol

[tacit ether]

I liked legacy dilo, was a heavy bleeder but was p weak ( I played cera on legacy)

[worthy steeple]

legacy cera is pretty underrated

[tacit ether]

was very fun had best turn, i would 1v12 utahs and get mauled and barely survive but they had a lot of opportunity to drop me

[raven mist]

Every Apexes worst fear in legacy was a dilo once that sun went down it was fun but so bad haha

[tacit ether]

truuu legacy was a horror movie, got a clip of a rex sneaking up on me and my m8 and we both got chomped and bone break and he died and im on 1hp xD

[worthy steeple]

yeah, dilo needed like few bites to bleed out things, that was insane

13 bites to bleed out fg rex afaik

[raven mist]

Yeah 7+ hours of growing gone in a couple minutes at night ahah

At least it’s not like that in evrima now, a few small tweaks to dilo and omni then things will be fine. If people still care about cera being to strong which I don’t think so then we can maybe add a slow to the charge bite or something

[tacit ether]

raptor doesnt need much, but an increase in bite speed and some added bleed to actually be a bleeder. i dont want to sit hunting something an hour plus just to bleed something out. most rapts just end up dps spam and then die trying that against bigger stuff. its possible to pin a carno/cera with 3 but the likely hood of acutally getting raptors to not kill eachother is so low using pounce. Raptors get punished for using their main ability, left with no stam and defenseless where no where to jump so jumping is basically useless most the time

[raven mist]

Yeah nerf dilo speed, buff omni stam was my answer with maybe a small buff to bite force just don’t want to make them too similar in terms of the overall foundation of the Dino’s stats

[dusky surge]

Omni already has better running stam than dilo tho. Main issue is the fact that dilo doesn't really do anything with its attacks that cost stam, so omni feels like it has less

[tacit ether]

wouldnt mind dilo speed tbh a sub rapt can catch it and slow it down for the rest of the pack

dilo isnt too tuff if you know how to fight it but most players arent too competent with the combat so they end up just running into alt attacks n stuff

at night you might as well jump off a cliff tbh fighting one is skoomacide

[dusky surge]

still think a speed nerf is entirely unnecessary. want to change the omni dilo matchup? don't remove the ability of dilo to flee, change the other parts of their kit that actually make it feel unfair

[tacit ether]

leave dilo as is it just needs a venom fix tbh with dmg and clones, rapt just needs to be a bleeder if thats what its supposed to be, with an alright bite 65 bf is good for me

the issue wiht pounce is its buggy, can kill your team, pouncing drains your stamina, riding drains it slower btu still fast, lmb drains it hellish as well as rmb and jumping off drains it a lot so by time you get a few pounces in good luck with 30% stamina

you regen and the fight is 100m away so you burn it down to 70 runnign to it and wait to pounce again until full unless you wanan wait for regen again

pounce is just a tool to not get bit at the exchange of stamina btu without stamina a raptor isnt $h!t as well as every other dino

[raven mist]

Just drop Allo, Rex, Camara, and Trike. All these problems will disappear and we can enjoy mid and apexes instead

[tacit ether]

real allo first, let rex trike cook and release together then drop bary and sucho or another large carni. almost all the herbivores are tons heavier than about every carni thats a whole nother thing tho

[long nova]

The fog on troodon venom is actually bad, it removes the ambient sounds so you can clearly hear troodon footsteps and know where it is

[raven mist]

Exactly, we’ve got mix packing mid tier herbis and there’s nothing you can do unless you have 10+ ceras/Dilos and even then it would be a challenge. Adding Allo first was what I’ve put in the suggestion before too and having Sucho would be so fun to have I reckon, give deinos some competition or something in the water

[dusky surge]

mixpacking allos

lol

[tacit ether]

sadly bro spitting xD

[dusky surge]

honestly if you want an animal that's better against the mixpacks, adding rex first is unironically a better idea

[raven mist]

Fight fire with fire 😈

[viscid mica]

Why is everyone who says buff troodon want to remove the mechanic that helps it get in and out

[tacit ether]

trood needs a floor fog or somethign that covers the floor the AOE is useless if i can still see it on the ground xD

[dusky surge]

rex ain't consistently feeding on this roster. Most animals are below 1 ton, barely enough to feed an animal over 9 tons, so if there's one too many rexes, they kinda just starve (that is, if they aren't cannibals, hopefully they aren't)

[onyx lichen]

Because the grass already does that

[viscid mica]

Fr

[tacit ether]

good thing every dibble player going to go straight to trike

steg players too lol

[dusky surge]

depends really

[raven mist]

It’ll balance out over time

People will just want to play the new Dino’s

[dusky surge]

some people will likely prefer steg or dibble over trike for their own reasons

[viscid mica]

I can tell you now it is 100x easier to track a troodon without the fog the fog helps a lot as a solo troodon connoisseur I like ma fog

[dusky surge]

(that is, if steg doesn't end up being rex fodder like some people seem to want it to be)

[onyx lichen]

Ohhhh, so because it helps a Solo it should stay

[viscid mica]

Yes? Every Dino even if intended to be a group main should have solo viability to some extent

[tacit ether]

playing solo should be viable

[onyx lichen]

Troodon is entirely designed around groups, solo hunts are intended for sanctuaries

[tacit ether]

not all the time you will have agroup

[viscid mica]

So basically you want to make it entirely unviable solo? Force you to have a group 24:7

[onyx lichen]

It is already extremely viable solo

[tacit ether]

gets dsync killed

[viscid mica]

Yes because of fog

[onyx lichen]

Nope

[raven mist]

I can’t take genuine Troodon feedback serious tbh, like is that thing ever going to do anything other than be able to role play against ai?

[viscid mica]

What do you main

(Current roaster)

[viscid mica]

The ability to dip in and out of visible range lets you loop and mix up the attack angles you can’t do that if I can clearly see you

[onyx lichen]

The grass already does that, its been one of the most evasive playables since its release

[viscid mica]

If your struggling to track troodon through grass as anything that isn’t stego or deino that’s simply a skill issue

[tacit ether]

trood id want trood to be like cookie cutter sharks, taking chunks out of their prey and gaining some thirst and food from pounces while bleeding and poisoning you

[raven mist]

Cera/dilo right now and play mid tier herbs sometimes so it may be ironic ahah, but what do you contest as a troodon

[dusky surge]

pretty much anything due to how well it can punch up with its insane damage

[viscid mica]

11 pounces after t3 6 pounces after t3

[dusky surge]

ive killed a few sub stegos solo

[viscid mica]

Both can be solo’d on 1 stam bar

Every pounce after t3 does 120 DoT

[raven mist]

Is it really that viable? I just never notice when I’m against them

[dusky surge]

not DoT

[onyx lichen]

Troodon been extremely viable solo ever since Sanctuaries

[dusky surge]

it just does the damage instantly. Instant 120 damage

Absolutely manic

[onyx lichen]

Troodon does do DoT, only for 5 seconds after you pounce

[dusky surge]

Yea, but that's not where the 120 damage comes from

[tacit ether]

juvies die in a few pounces thats all thats in sanct

[dusky surge]

The DoT is extremely menial

[onyx lichen]

I died for the first time to that DoT yesterday actually

[tacit ether]

imo troods should get venom younger, ceras get bile as lil doods

[viscid mica]

It’s the 120 that’s why you don’t 1 tap after the final pounce and it takes a second then they just kinda drop

[dusky surge]

It's still very menial tho lol

[raven mist]

So you get 120 flat plus tier DOT?

[dusky surge]

Yup

[viscid mica]

120 after t3

[onyx lichen]

I fought Troodons with the fog, and let me tell you, it does not help them, it helped me find out where they are

[viscid mica]

I think the damage multipliers are like 1.2, 1.5, 3x respectively? Something like that

[dusky surge]

They're actually SHOCKINGLY good at killing dilos who are stupid enough to stand around and fight. Dilo's bite sucks at hitting small creatures like Troodon, and their turn radius and long body makes them easy to get pounce on

[viscid mica]

not my experience ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[long nova]

Bite Stage 1: 15 Dmg
Bite stage 2: 25 Dmg
Bite stage 3: 45 Dmg
Pounce stage 1: 30.85 Dmg
Pounce stage 2: 45.34 Dmg
Pounce stage 3: 99.87 Dmg

[raven mist]

Might have to give troodon a proper try

[viscid mica]

Doesn’t help that troodon running is louder than stego

[long nova]

from what ive tested those are troodon dmg numbers in each venom tier

[onyx lichen]

Was this before or after the buff?

[viscid mica]

Best in trio or quad

[long nova]

after

tested it yesterday

[onyx lichen]

The fog increased the sounds of footsteps while also reducing the sound of rain and disabling certain sounds like Waterfalls

[viscid mica]

Which makes no sense tbh

And again dilo and troodon have some of the loudest run noise for no reason

[onyx lichen]

I got video of me fighting the Troodons as Dilo and knowing where they were because of the fog

[viscid mica]

Skill issue ig

[viscid mica]

I find it extremely useful

[viscid mica]

?

[onyx lichen]

What I mean by the fog not being useful, I was still able to see them

[viscid mica]

I mean yes? It’s not straight blindness

But it makes it harder to outrightly track them

[onyx lichen]

The grass is doing a better job at hiding them than the fog

[tacit ether]

the fog effect is useless lmao

[viscid mica]

Ya but why not leave it

[onyx lichen]

Leave what?

[viscid mica]

Like what’s the point in removing it?

[onyx lichen]

Amarok already mentioned on stream that it may be changed so hopefully it will be

[tacit ether]

hopefully it gets its own effect not the dilo knock off, trood is fun but you can bite them with your eyes closed if your ears work

[onyx lichen]

There are 3 main reasons why people don't like the fog on Troodon

1. It feels meaningless since Troodon is already extremely evasive and just helps it out in an area it is aready strongest in
2. It doesn't fit Troodon's design since it seems to cause more physical effects than Mental
3. It was just ripped off from Dilo

[viscid mica]

Troodons would be cool if it had other effects to compensate for its size and speed like stam drain then I’d be down with no fog

[onyx lichen]

I suggested that in the feedback you reacted to

[viscid mica]

I mean most venom act similar to some regard

[tacit ether]

needs an effect like this

[viscid mica]

Now that

Would be terrifying

[onyx lichen]

Ground fog is not gonna be useful

[tacit ether]

this what i been talking about the fog needs to be on the floor

someone said it would be pointless i said howwww swae

[viscid mica]

Little black dots blasting through ground fog would be devious

[onyx lichen]

Because the grass already does that

[tacit ether]

still pretty ez to see movement in the grass

[viscid mica]

Really is

[tacit ether]

our eyes work that way

[viscid mica]

Some people just have terrible motion tracking

[onyx lichen]

I escaped and juked so many things in the grass as Troodon

Also, the new grass coming is gonna be interesting for Troodon

[tacit ether]

its do able but ive never lost track of a trood if i was rlly trying to get it, norm i let them slide anyway

[viscid mica]

Man I’ve chased a troodon around as pachy for ages before

[tacit ether]

granted i have 20/20 vision

[onyx lichen]

I would prefer the Venom reduce NV instead of ground fog so it encourages more Night Hunting

[tacit ether]

that would be very good

[dusky surge]

so where's the harm?

[viscid mica]

What more can you do to something like stego lmao

[viscid mica]

Fr

[onyx lichen]

What is the purpose of hunting a Stego as Troodon?

[viscid mica]

Glory

[tacit ether]

^ xD

ive done it once against a medium steg and like 8 troods

[dusky surge]

subs and juvis are extremely easy hunts as troodon in my experience, especially at night

[onyx lichen]

Stego isn't on diet and organs from something larger than 1.3 tons can't be picked up

[tacit ether]

still a fun boss fight

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/gladiator-finance-gif-25530028

The ability to say you’ve taken a FG stego as troodon is all the reason I need

[onyx lichen]

Troodon's Venom causing the target to have increased stamina consumption feels more fitting and useful than the fog

[viscid mica]

It’s like why omni hordes challenge dam near everything

And dibbles will dare the dance

[viscid mica]

That’s fair

[onyx lichen]

I can only see the fog be useful on coast or Human buildings, but those places are often great for pounce counters

[viscid mica]

Tap pounce lads tap pounce

[dusky surge]

give troodon a psuedo-bile that causes opponents to throw up blood, losing stamina, health and blood. Make the effectiveness of this bile scale with venom application and regenerate over time, rather than scaling with weight and regenerating with food

Would be fitting, act as a "stam drain", while also adding to the horror element of Troodon

[raven mist]

Yeah give it percentile health drain so even stegos will be scared ahah

[viscid mica]

Making their venom more of a gastric effect over physical eh

[dusky surge]

That is physical

Literally puking blood is far more physical than the fog

[viscid mica]

Not dilo shadow clones which are broken rn and do no damage

[dusky surge]

????

What does that have to do with anything lol

[viscid mica]

Venom stuff

[hasty coyote]

Could make it so that resetting the venom causes the vomit and the % of stats decreased scale based on the amount of pounces hit (with a cap of like 15%). Like, say each pounce adds 1%. So if you get jumped to 3rd stage and left to vomit, you're only losing like 1% of your stats. But If you're getting swarmed and get pounced 20 times and live, you lose 15% of your stats.

My only problem is it doesnt solve troo's main issue of the target just running the moment they hit stage 3.

[dusky surge]

You know... I think people are looking at things the wrong way

Extra stam drain is well and good right, but this is VENOM we're talking about. Why not take a page from the notes of bleed, and feed into the "physical" aspect of Troodon? DoT is directly related to movement as you pump the venom through your body faster and faster. Lets Troodon have DoT that's actually counterable, makes sense for it, and doesn't require Troodon to have to have effectively body fracture but worse, and instead gives prey actual options of counterplay.

For instance

Stage 1:
Sprinting = 1 DPS

Stage 2:
Trotting = 1 DPS
Sprinting = 2 DPS

Stage 3:
Walking = 1 DPS
Trotting = 2 DPS
Sprinting = 4 DPS

Arbitrary example numbers but you get the idea

[hasty coyote]

that could also be an interesting way of working it. I just generally default to stam drain because troodons are relatively slow, and burn stam pretty quickly with their pounces. so unless the dot in 3rd stage is inane enough to kill, the target can get away unless one of the troos has full stam purely to catch the escaping prey.

[maiden ginkgo]

I can just see it. a troodon with stage three will live for 2 seconds while sprinting.

[stark knoll]

@ember summit Huh? You can already move anywhere you want while scenting

I'm not sure what you're asking for

[ember summit]

When I'm holding "scent" my dinosaur can only move forward or side to side. It's been like this since Evrima released. Is this really just a me problem? xD

I can record it, but heck, is this a personal bug, not a feature?

[maiden ginkgo]

What dino?

[stark knoll]

I'd have to check out what you mean lol cuz now I'm confused too

[ember summit]

I'm usually Carno, but every dino from what I recall

I'm going to record a quick short video and see if it helps

[maiden ginkgo]

Very odd. I was thinking if dibble, it might be in def posture (crtl)

check your keybinds as well, if you have a combo for movement?

Idk.. is it like side stepping left/right or just lateral and forward movement, (like when alt held)?

[stark knoll]

I mean I can fully WASD while holding Q

So maybe it's a you thing somehow

[ember summit]

I think I was describing the issue wrong

I'll try again xD So, when in legacy I could be sniffing and turn my camera, and the direction I turned is the direction I'd be moving forward while still sniffing and holding W to go forward. Right now in Evrima, if I wanted to suddenly turn around and go the way I came, but while still sniffing, I now have to press S instead of W to keep moving in the new "forward" direction

[stark knoll]

Oh that sounds more like something with the freelook

Tabbing in and out of the game can get it stuck

Holding Q and W makes you move wherever the camera is facing

[ember summit]

I've never used freelook though. This is every time I want to sniff and follow a trail

Hm

[stark knoll]

It's on the Alt key, so alt tabbing might leave it enabled

[ember summit]

Oh

Wow. This was a me issue all along xD 🪦 this is game changing. I'm just dumb

I had hotkeys overlapped

[stark knoll]

Yea I'm in game just to be 100% sure and holding Q and W follows my mouse

[ember summit]

It was 100% a freelook issue

Well thank you very much for helping me out there xD that was driving me nuts for ages

[stark knoll]

Np!

[ember summit]

I feel more free than I've ever felt before now ;-;

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message carno always breaks on first hit, tho both teno and cera should have fracture resistance just so bunch of pachys won’t be able to hunt them.

the thing about maia is it’s too big for pachy to bone break it

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback message carno and omni are NOT unviable what 😭

[dusky surge]

Bro roped omni and carno in with pachy and thought we wouldn’t notice

[eager saddle]

yeah what

[swift wind]

omni not unplayable but not particularly well balanced either

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Ceratos bypassing deino's entire physiology with their bite:

[worthy steeple]

ceratos hunting deinos:

[eager saddle]

Yeah like wtf😂

[iron tree]

why would cera-

<@&933486433342222376>

Anyway, why would cera even mess with a deino

[frozen ibex]

1.3t scavenger vs 8t blueprint hunter

[elfin night]

should carno's charge damage on tail hits be reduced or removed?

[elfin night]

ceratos ruining the playthrough of a creature that can only have a chance to eat every 30 minutes or so:

[worthy steeple]

no. they should work on desync instead.

[elfin night]

what

but like

think about it. Why does it even hurt that someone charges the tip of a tail

a part that isnt rigid nor fragile

[dusky surge]

not even that

crocodilians CANNOT vomit lmao

[elfin night]

didnt know that, curious

although even then, game design >>>>> realism to me. I would rather support balance and fairness over whether something is accurate or not

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message with what claw?

[hasty coyote]

That’s why if they hit the tail tip, like every other dino, it deals severely reduced damage. Latency just makes the carno appear further behind for you, and you closer to the carno for them, so that “tail hit” was likely a body hit or base of the tail hit.

[dusky surge]

the claw

mysterious as it is powerful

[elfin night]

aight, disable charge tail hits then

/hj

[elfin night]

give maia claws that is can pull out by clenching its fists that cannot be clenched

https://tenor.com/view/ready-to-fight-logan-wolverine-deadpool-%26-wolverine-ready-for-combat-gif-14649007747768500673

[eager saddle]

That sounds awful tho

The fast herbivore that can literally chase you to the other side of the map, being able to bleed you.

You can’t run away and you can’t fight

[worthy steeple]

pre nerf galli👹

[worthy steeple]

@jovial bough #balance-feedback message you mean 10% damage and bleed from regular dilos bite?

just making sure i understood this right

[jovial bough]

A 10th would be 10% i guess.

[worthy steeple]

i like the idea of clones not disappearing and giving a dilo a chance to bite while target is distracted

[worthy steeple]

alright, i like that

honestly, making clones more of a distraction and not main source of damage would be amazing

i hate that m2 click = win mechanic

[pallid acorn]

Question, why does everyone seem to hate the idea of locational spawns? I thought they were great

[crimson crater]

creates hotspots which ruins the map kinda

[pallid acorn]

Ahhh I understand

[swift wind]

👍🏻 💯

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message imagine how bad maia would be if it couldn’t run away from cera (megapacks)

Or balancing it in a way that it is viable but we just get dibble without bleed

[edgy crow]

pain

[viscid mica]

@elfin night alt left click

Does same thing as charging headbutt

[elfin night]

Damn

[onyx lichen]

@half estuary Cerato's bacteria isn't venom though

[elfin night]

I think that consistency doesn’t really matter that much, but I actually think at the very least troodon should get its venom as soon as it starts to make hunting easier and less dependent on scavenging or finding a little fawn in the middle of nowhere

For gameplay’s sake

Dunno about dilo. Seems pretty standard as a juvenile

[viscid mica]

It’s similar

[onyx lichen]

Small ai is planned so fresh spawns will be easier to play as

[elfin night]

Good

As long as it works and there’s something, we’re gud

[onyx lichen]

Similar does not mean the same

[elfin night]

Also Cera’s bacteria does need to be refilled. That’s something dilo and troodon don’t have to abide by

[viscid mica]

Similar enough that I agree that cera ain’t got no business having it until sub

[elfin night]

Stealing kills from smaller stuff?

[onyx lichen]

Cera's bacteria is weight dependent and can only be filled by eating

[viscid mica]

It’s big enough to kill most small stuff out right it doesn’t need bile to carry it through

[elfin night]

Also a deterrent because stat wise cera has by far the worst growing stages. It’s a land creature that isn’t tanky, is one of the slowest and subs are one of the exceptions to the rule of them being faster than adults…

Young ceras are just atrocious against everything except for smaller stuff

They don’t even have the tools to escape

[viscid mica]

Ah hell no deino is the worst grow by a mile its power scale chart is wild

It’s legit a straight line until like 70%

Over 10% from 90-100 you go from 5T-8T

[elfin night]

I mean in terms of viability. Because at least deino only has to worry about itself despite being unable to escape or fight.

Cera on the other hand has to worry about every other land creature and as I said, it is one of the few exceptions (the other one being dibble lmfao) where younger stages are never faster than the full adults, and in fact the juvenile is pathetically slow

[elfin night]

That’s insane

[viscid mica]

I dunno I find cera the easiest grow by a mile

[elfin night]

Juvenile cera is such a legacy juvenile as in pathetic and useless, which is ironic because juvenile cera in legacy could perfectly be a solid higher end low tier

[viscid mica]

My rank for difficulty is like
Deino
Carno
Troodon(getting food at start is annoying af)

[elfin night]

Carno is pain

[viscid mica]

Carno is just way too long for its weight re class

It’s like dibble long but weaker than cera

[worthy steeple]

i dont want microscopic fresh spawn juvie troodons and dilos have a venom #balance-feedback message
and what consistency they're talking about? one is venom and the other one is bacteria lmao. and the difference between baby cera and baby dilo is both are super fast and small as a juvies and the other one is slow and cant really defend itself or run away, so it having bacteria is actually a good thing, because it will make everything that wants to kill it vomit.

[viscid mica]

Yes cheesy carno can beat cera but on average if the skill is same cera will win

Oh nvm bro didn’t care XD

[worthy steeple]

and that means less chances anyone will attack a baby cera

which is good.

the devs did a good job balancing that, suprised that post got so many upvotes, those changes dont make any sense

[viscid mica]

Destroy the child

[worthy steeple]

lmaoo yeah i didnt read the conversation above, im here for other reasons

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/king-king-baldwin-king-baldwin-4-rikoamv-riko-amv-gif-8479237540916603760

[worthy steeple]

yes, 100% and that’s how it should be

the his is me killing 2 ceras with the body buff as solo carno

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

i only recorded the kills just for the proof, you have to imagine the rest of the fight

[viscid mica]

Painful drog

[worthy steeple]

was like 10% stamina when i killed the second one

[viscid mica]

@cobalt dagger 140kg

[edgy crow]

a certified carnotaur moment

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message i would rather remove that ability elite fish has, its meh

[edgy crow]

then what else do you do to make elite fish a challenge, deinos shouldn't live off big defenseless fish

[cobalt dagger]

Gee, I thought it was 90.

[viscid mica]

14% deino is roughly 140ish

That’s when it stops eating you so we’d have to nearly double beipi size

[worthy steeple]

beipi is already OP, like actually op, but the thing is it doesnt have anything to fight lol, if it was in an ecosystem with the other tiny sized animals it would murder everyone

[viscid mica]

Fr beipi bleed is criminal

I’ve killed FG deino with beipi before

[worthy steeple]

the claw damage and bleed is just insane for its size

but i love it that way lmao

[viscid mica]

Bleed is wild

[worthy steeple]

its okay, since it literally doest have anything in its weight range to fight anyway

[viscid mica]

XD

Austro

[cobalt dagger]

Still... I think it would be OK if adult beipi was heavier, I don't think that would affect it's matchups that much if it was.

I agree beipi is OP for it's size and terrible also because of it's size (aka, good for being small, bad because of being small: Raptors pin you, deinos grab you, elite fish eat you, and there's nothing your size to fight so you spend your days always on the run)

[viscid mica]

Na it doesn’t need it you can easily evade the elite fish

[worthy steeple]

i mean.. i dont want ai eating fg beipis, thats it

i never got eaten, but i just dont like the idea

[viscid mica]

They could just change the Ai to not attack FG beipi

[edgy crow]

fair and I agree

[cobalt dagger]

Already, deino live off of big defensless fish, after a certain growth.

[worthy steeple]

it could do damage to beipi, but not insta kill, especially when its so buggy

[cobalt dagger]

I've been eaten as herra, beipi, and one other thing I don't remember.

The elite fish can sneak up on you

[viscid mica]

Bb Herrera activity

[cobalt dagger]

You're typing and one swims up behind you, and it's a 1-shot

[edgy crow]

I feel like austros are actually gonna have a hard time hunting beepys in the water, they will probably have both the speed and agility to turn the kookaburra into a pillow

[worthy steeple]

one beipis alt attack leaves herrera with red health and insane bleed and i love it lmao

[cobalt dagger]

You try to fight them so you can have the pond to yourself? Unfortunately their 'swallow' range is ridiculous, you're also visually bigger than them and they stills wallow you

[worthy steeple]

tho it should be a headshot ofc

[worthy steeple]

im really excited for austro and beipi interactions and also i hope they will add more underwater stuff

and when they will add other isles they could finally make teno a semi-aquatic

[edgy crow]

I genuinely can't see austro being faster/more agile than beepy in the water

[worthy steeple]

maybe add some underwater plants for beipi and teno and other semi-aquatic herbivores

[edgy crow]

in general I feel like austro will be a worse swimmer than people expect for it?? of course it's gonna be good... but it's not nearly as adapted for the water as beepy is I feel

[worthy steeple]

it probably wont, i dont think austro is going to be an amazing swimmer tbh, like above average for sure, but i really expect bary to be the best swimmer

like i just dont see austro being as fast as beipi for example

[worthy steeple]

yeah same

lmao we were thinking about the same thing xd

[hasty coyote]

it does not do the same thing, ram deals significantly more damage, has higher knockdown thresholds, and has fracture damage

[elfin night]

That’s so fake dude. Troodons can survive 2 claw swipes to the face without bleeding out

[edgy crow]

how

[viscid mica]

Alt left click does fracture damage

[hasty coyote]

it does not

ram is the only attack in this game that deals fracture

[viscid mica]

Spam and a lot of it you just need to get the bleed going

[hasty coyote]

not even the alt

[elfin night]

I literally play beipi like if it was deino, I ambushed a troodon once and gave it two claw swipes while it was drinking before it escaped. I personally had to go there because he was sitting to finish it off

[viscid mica]

Go play pachy and alt left click another pachy or omni and you’ll feel really dumb

[elfin night]

Alt should deal fracture ngl

[viscid mica]

It does

[elfin night]

It doesn’t

[viscid mica]

He doesn’t know what he is talking about

[hasty coyote]

Ill go do it real quick, brb

[viscid mica]

It does you can body break other pachy with alt left

I’ve been the victim and perp of this exact thing

[hasty coyote]

You’re likely thinking of a tap ram

[elfin night]

Pachy just feels like if its fractures are disabled rn.

I landed 4 rams as a sub pachy on a sub dilo of around my size and at best it stunned and I also knocked down with several alt headbutts but still lost and didn’t fracture anything. Then I grew another pachy and a carno tried killing me and I had nowhere to go, I landed 4 rams and still the guy didn’t break anything

[viscid mica]

Alt left

[viscid mica]

Ya fracture damage is atrocious it pretty much is off

[elfin night]

I think you’re all either deeply misinformed or lying about the numbers with stuff like beipi or Pachy because then my results are beyond disappointing

😭 😭 😭

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mistake hold alt and clicking left to the self stun lung that is m2

[hasty coyote]

That’s a little funny I call ghost hits. None of them actually landed

[viscid mica]

How can I be misinformed about stuff I play consistently

[elfin night]

Meanwhile carno registering tail hits with its charge 2 meters away from someone’s tail

[viscid mica]

Bruh fr 70% of your charging hits just don’t register

[viscid mica]

It’s got 1.8 head charge hitbox so it’s super thiccc

[elfin night]

It gives off that vibe when people go “oh yeah beipi bleed is THE best in the game” and then when I try it I cannot manage to bleed out anyone as I see them coming back even when sub omnis or sub carnos get 6-7 claw swipes to the body

[elfin night]

That’s so stupid and unnecessary for a knockdown attack

[viscid mica]

It’s dps is abysmal and I’m not sure about best bleed as I’d have to give that to dibble or stego rn ( if you manage to survive stego) but beipi bleed is better than omnis

Especially sense omni bleed pounce tends to straight up not work

[elfin night]

Still it is disappointing that I couldn’t apparently bleed out juveniles with 2-3 hits

[viscid mica]

I mean you’d have to stop them from healing the bleed and juvis heal bleed faster than adults

The problem is you’ll probably outrightly kill them before you can bleed them out

[elfin night]

Well, I guess I cannot keep much pressure when I move so slowly in land

[viscid mica]

Yurp

[elfin night]

Sucks

[viscid mica]

Try slapping around some 50% deinos

That is fun

[elfin night]

Funny how beipi is apparently so good for its size but it is hot garbage in the grand scheme of things

[viscid mica]

Fr

[hasty coyote]

Yeah I just alt spammed a carno to 25% hp and they didn’t get a single fracture. Kept hitting in the same spot without moving.

[elfin night]

It’s so sad that a 30 kph therizinosaur cannot even reliably trade with a faster, stronger and tankier sub herrera

They hate tiny tiers

[viscid mica]

Try doing something in your size ball park

I know it works on omni and pachy

[viscid mica]

One is a good bit larger

175-80?

That’s 3 bites for Herrera

[hasty coyote]

I can try but that won’t change the result. Carno has the worst fracture to hp ratio in the game, so unless it doesn’t deal fracture damage to something bigger (which makes no sense for it). But I can attempt to wrangle an Omni player.

[viscid mica]

It does fracture damage even if it’s abysmal compared to the charge fracture

I know 100% that I’ve body broken another pachy with it

[elfin night]

But it doesn’t always have to be about size.

[hasty coyote]

Alt spammed an Omni, nothing. And everyone I have tried to wrangle has said that there are no fractures. I don’t know what you have seen then, but pachy alt does not fracture.

If it does have fracture, then it’s such a small ratio that you’re going to kill someone before a fracture occurs.

[viscid mica]

Na I swear life broken pachy with it 100%

These talks always happen when I’m gonna be working the night and I can’t go fact check I swear

No one ever posts clips either

[hasty coyote]

If i had a way to record I would have, but I dont sadly.

[viscid mica]

[hasty coyote]

If you are able to prove me wrong later then do so, I'll gladly see. But from my many hours of pachy, and those tests, I'm 99% sure it doesnt have fractures

[viscid mica]

If I get a chance I’ll try maybe it’s just that pachy body is mad weak to fracture damage

If I even remember this convo

[sterile geode]

To help balance mix packing on official servers, “Add an aura that makes herbivores and carnivores when near one another for X amount of time lose nutrients.”

[viscid mica]

Sounds like a easy way for galli or PT to troll larger Dino growth

[slim dragon]

Posting this in every channel doesn't make it a better idea

[spiral kindle]

My balance Feedback got deleted twice

why?

[stark knoll]

Use #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞 to report bugs

[spiral kindle]

Ppl already know about the dilo bug lol

Clones doing 0 dmg

5 days ppl have been reporting it

[cosmic pelican]

And the devs know

[spiral kindle]

Exactly so why delete it lol

[spiral kindle]

Are you sure?

[cosmic pelican]

Read the devblog

Hypno said he playtested the game himself and knows about that bug

[spiral kindle]

I must of not seen it

Doesnt say it here

[cosmic pelican]

Nevermind Im dumb
My bad

😭

[spiral kindle]

All good bro

This is what happens when we play too much isle 💀

[worthy steeple]

#general-feedback message i wrote this feedback and the devs nerfed dilos clones in a day or two

it’s a sign they’re listening

imo removing the clones temporarily is better than what we had before💀

one bite during nighttime = death

[spiral kindle]

Thats not fixing it tho you're just making the playable useless

Not fair at all

[worthy steeple]

nice

[spiral kindle]

Creating another problem

[worthy steeple]

temporary fix before they figure what they want to do with it

[worthy steeple]

no?

the dilo could kill anything with one bite, that was a problem, now the problem is fixed.

and they can just focus on changing the dilos mechanic completely

[spiral kindle]

It's special ability / identity is gone

It's just a legacy walking bite bot

[stark knoll]

Ok, but the feedback channels aren't for bug reports

[spiral kindle]

I'm not reporting a bug

tho or i would go in detail

[worthy steeple]

you did tho

[worthy steeple]

it was game breaking

[spiral kindle]

No cause if i was reporting a bug i would go in bug reports lol

[stark knoll]

We expect posts in the feedback channels to be constructive and descriptive. Your post failed to comply and was removed

[spiral kindle]

Devs did it on purpose

It's not a bug

[stark knoll]

How do you know?

[spiral kindle]

Look at chessy

[stark knoll]

Either way, put effort in when using the feedback channels

[spiral kindle]

Hes convincing me

[worthy steeple]

i’m just guessing

[spiral kindle]

You liar

[worthy steeple]

but if it was intentional that’s a good thing

[stark knoll]

He is quite literally just making things up

[spiral kindle]

Yeah ik im just playing

[worthy steeple]

exactly

[stark knoll]

Dilo clones have been buggy for a hot minute

[worthy steeple]

i wrote a feedback and they changed things in a day or two, dilo was busted for months before that

maybe it’s just a coincidence, maybe they did listen to feedback, who knows

but one thing for sure, it was a good change, id rather want dilo to be temporary nerfed, instead of them being broken as hell

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

The world if cera spawns were temporarily disabled:

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[random stump]

<@&933486433342222376>

[cobalt dagger]

@random stump

I agree dilo shouldn't be faster than carno, but if it's slower than raptor how will it survive raptor packs? Raptors can survive dilos with superior turn radius, and dilos bleed way faster than raptors so get one bleed pounce in on a solo dilo and it simply won't have the blood pool to sprint after you.

Much more notably though, raptor can jump onto rocks and dilo can't. I've actually killed very few raptors with my dilos because they get on rocks. If you venom them, well that works now, but if you didnt venom them before hand, then the dilo is outta luck.

But if raptor packs were faster than dilos, dilos - with their bad turn radius, minimal bleed resist, and smaller size - would be one of the easiest kills, probably easier than a pachy by far. As it is, my dilo has already been hunted by raptor packs - after one bleed-inducing pounce, I can't run or I'll bleed out.

In fact, in the update right after mutations were added, I was a 50% dilo at rail access trying to hunt 3 raptors that looked about 20%. Not only did they easily out-turn my dilo and avoid hits, but they all pounced me at different intervals as I tried to bite them. I ended up running away after I was pounced 3 times, and I had the 'don't die of bleed if sitting' perk, but it was glitchty at that time and so it didn't save me; I ran away, sat, and the bleed killed me.

If I was a 100% dilo vs 100% raptors, they would have just pinned me, forget bleeding.
But the 1st pounce gives you enough bleeding damage you can't even run away. Raptor packs can already hunt dilos this way by just getting the first hit. I understand dilo being faster than raptor makes it hard for raptor too, but I'm trying to say it would be harder for dilo to handle a faster raptor, than for raptor to handle a faster dilo.

[sharp patrol]

Dilos are actually almost double raptors size tho, raptors are 450 kg dilos are 700 kg

They also envenom a raptor in 1-2 bits on the body 1 bite on the head

Also if ur complaining about packs hunting you as an individual, that's a numbers game, your dying to packs while ur solo Thats simply a numbers game

[swift wind]

dilos agility isnt that bad. dilo shouldnt be able to run away from, outrun and out tank omni players. in this state we are effectively giving dilo players the choice of whether or not they want to run and whether or not they want to kill the omni because the omni is beaten in most regards by dilos

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message if dilo was slower than omni it would be dead.

not only is omni much better at turning than dilo, but omni can jump.

there would be no way for dilos to escape omni packs

getting chased by dilo as omni? just jump on a rock

getting chased by a hypothetically faster omni as dilo? just die

[swift wind]

acting like dilo isnt a better fighter than omni

is it more fair that dilos are stronger and faster as opposed to being stronger but not faster?

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, dilos are incredibly op atm with venom. But without it, omnis can absolutely shred a dilo.

[edgy crow]

If a dilo pack tries to attack an omni, the omni easily escapes by jumping. If a hypothetically faster omni pack attacks a dilo, the dilo just dies, there's no escape.

[hasty coyote]

and with its horrid turning, omnis can get around a dilo, so it relies on the speed to actually catch an omni. If omnis were faster, then dilo would have no way to hit them and just die.

[swift wind]

you say this as if rocks are present on every part of the island... it is just not the case

[hasty coyote]

so while it aint perfect, its much better that omni is slower than if dilo is slower.

[swift wind]

no

[hasty coyote]

plus dilo footsteps are LOUD, you aint hiding as a dilo

omnis have that option

[swift wind]

omnis dont have options when it comes to escaping a fight

you cant just hide midfight and you cant outbrawl a dilo because regardless of what people say its agility isnt so bad that omnis can get free hits if the dilo player isnt incompetent

it results in a matchup where omnis cant outfight a dilo and nor can they escape

[hasty coyote]

Omnis:
1: hiding
2: breaking line of sight with bushes
3: jumping
4: turning
5:just bleeding/killing the dilo

Dilos:
1: hiding
2:kill the omni

and if you nerf its speed, killing the omni becomes 10x harder

[edgy crow]

like dilo just straight up loses if omni is faster, it has no advantages over it that way

[swift wind]

1 and 2 are effectively the same point, 3 is null whenever youre in any area without rocks, 4 is null whenever youre playing against someone who isnt incompetent, bleeding works if you have numbers advantages

also totally ignored the fact that dilo having higher speed means it can disengage when the omni cant

[swift wind]

more dmg... hallucinations...

[hasty coyote]

I consider them different because I was referring to hiding BEFORE the fight starts, and breaking line of sight with bushes is not a luxury dilo gets because you can just hear its stomps even if you can't see it.

[swift wind]

breaking line of sight is not particularly viable considering it is hard to lose a dinosaur which is faster than you

an fg omni isnt just going to get lost in some bush like a troodon will

[hasty coyote]

I have had no issues with it myself, espeiclly if you abuse the fact it can't turn well. zig zag to a bush, stop on the edge of the bush, wait for dilo to go through, run opposite direction.

[hasty coyote]

I was referring to if each was slower.

[swift wind]

thats fair

but nonetheless i still disagree

[hasty coyote]

either way, omnis have so many other options that dilos do not have. While I agree it aint the best, but its better than the alternative.

Honestly I'd rather see some omni buffs and dilo nerfs than to touch either's speed. Dilo needs its hallucinations to not deal so much, and omnis could use some adjustments with pounce.

[swift wind]

as an omni player i think the alternative (dilo being slower/at minimum matching omni speed) is the better alternative. in a 1v1 situation against ceras, carnos etc the omni can use its superior agility or speed to avoid a fight that it knows it cannot win. the option isnt there when fighting dilos due to its higher speed/dmg. the omni is basically forced to lose whenever it isnt in a part of the map where it can jump to safety

[edgy crow]

omni buffs??

[swift wind]

double hp would be a good start

maybe let it climb small trees like herras can so it can kill them too

[edgy crow]

[swift wind]

would be fair imo...

[hasty coyote]

The issue is, if dilos are slower, the same thing will happen to them. Except dilos have a much harder time hiding due to having louder steps than a stego, and don't even have the option to jump. And with the speed nerf, they would have no way to hit an omni unless the omni makes a mistake, due to the fact that omni can run faster, literally run circles around a dilo, and dilo's alts are so slow that they are pretty much useless. For context of how much it relies on that speed advantage, take a cera, reduce its hp and damage by half, remove its bleed res, make it turn like carno, and make its alts even slower. Thats how pitiful a slower dilo would be.

With the current system, omni can at least juke out the dilo, get to a rock, and/or break line of sight with bushes. Dilo would just have no options other than pray the omni is bad.

[hasty coyote]

That would make omni the single most broken dino in the game. Pinning dilos and pachies, tanking 3 charged bites, tanking 6 carno bites, the list goes on. Omni's weight is fine.

Main things I would buff would be bite speed, stam drain when bucked (but also remove stam drain from bucking in general), removing the rng from bucking, and buff bleed pounce (but nerf damage pounce).

[swift wind]

the options at the end rely on the omni player praying the dilo player is bad. i dont agree that in a situation where either the omni gets shafted by bad speed or the dilo does that the omni should have the burden, because it is already a weaker animal that is not going to win the 1v1

if your solution to losing the omni 1v1 with dilo is jumping on a rock... then youre forcing omnis to only go where rocks are

[hasty coyote]

The issue is, dilo loses the 1v1 without the speed advantage. You would just be throwing dilo under the bus, but with even less options than the omni. I agree, it sucks, but if you learn the matchup it really isnt bad.

[hasty coyote]

That is ONE option, they have many more, basically the exact same options as with dealing with a carno.

[swift wind]

i cant see how it loses without the speed advantage when it does more dmg and having some competency means you can nullify the agility disadvantage