balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

It's not even about hunger lol they just want you dead

[hasty coyote]

yeah, still doesnt change the fact that they can't heal like the cera can. Plus theres the fact that most herbies have to take tactile instead because their stam costs are so high. Plus theres the fact that cera prevents you from eating with bile. Plus theres the fact that gastro still seems to heal a flat amount so its better on smaller things rather than larger things (but cera doesnt care because it just infinitely heals).

[worthy steeple]

and good luck using gastro when you puked from 1-2 cera bites

sweet

[hasty coyote]

you wont live a couple times. Plus every time they come back, you're losing more stam, bleed, hp, and hunger. You need to kill them BEFORE they heal, not after.

[dusky surge]

^

[worthy steeple]

cant wait for them to add allo and rex and finally nerf stupid cera

[crimson crater]

“most herbis have to take tactical endurance instead because their stamina costs is so high” stego only

[dusky surge]

maia too

[worthy steeple]

because right now it does what allo should do

[dusky surge]

dibble also burns through its running stam extremely fast

[crimson crater]

and how is that most

[worthy steeple]

teno burns its stamina super quickly

[crimson crater]

it dosent

[dusky surge]

you fool

[hasty coyote]

diablo with tactile literally just has infinite stam if you manage it well so its still insanely good

[crimson crater]

☠️

[timber tusk]

That’s definitely a lot of players. Any time I play a carnivore, I’m just happy if I can keep from starvation. No way I’m going to chase another playable if my belly is full. Bad sense, that.

[worthy steeple]

you need at least 5 headshot kicks to kill a cera after the teno nerf. +you're running. and if you vomit you will lose a lot of stamia as well

[viscid mica]

What server you on

Wait teno got nerfed!?

[dusky surge]

I mean, that's a very respectable way of playing, but not everyone follows the same line of thought, so creating systems with that expectation feels like a bad idea

[viscid mica]

When was this teno nerf

[worthy steeple]

a while ago

[timber tusk]

I was thinking that about tactile. I put that on my Stego, but haven’t had a chance to actually test it yet. Too few predators in the northeast corner.

[crimson crater]

ye but i have personally not struggled with stamina while playing dibble, i’d chose gastro over it

[viscid mica]

Oh not new gotcha

[worthy steeple]

i mean they're nerfing it time to time lol

[viscid mica]

Teno isn’t op by any means

[dusky surge]

It's constantly getting shadow nerfed

[worthy steeple]

like the tail slam and kick can only hit one target

[dusky surge]

Wait what the hell

[hasty coyote]

people are people. we need to balance around the players best at the game and most toxic. We can't act like "well, I'd be a nice person and..." because what if someone isnt a nice person?

[crimson crater]

you just need to kick them 3 times and let the game do the rest for you

[viscid mica]

Teno requires abit of skill to maximize tenos danger level

[dusky surge]

No way did they remove the tail slam's best utility of splash damage

[worthy steeple]

yeah tested that on norden

[timber tusk]

If the systems could encourage and reward it maybe, but that’s for the devs to figure out. We need diets-but-for-combat to reign people in somehow.

[worthy steeple]

maybe its a bug tho

but im not surprised after what they did to tail slam. 100dmg? cmon..

[dusky surge]

diets for combat will not reign anyone in lol, that sounds like it'd really encourage people to play to win

[worthy steeple]

not how it works sadly, especially with the ceras being pretty much your speed

[hasty coyote]

teno's main combo dealing less than a single cera charged bite

[worthy steeple]

it deos little more, but yeah

[crimson crater]

why does ceras being nearly tenos speed matter? i’m talking about combat

[dusky surge]

its as funny as it is sad

[dusky surge]

speed is relevant for combat

it's why speed muts are considered combat mutations

[crimson crater]

it is but not in this context

[worthy steeple]

i want you to read this once again #general-feedback-discussion message

[hasty coyote]

teno's tail slam deals 100, kick does 225, so a total of 325. Cera's charged bite deals 350

[dusky surge]

LMAO

Actually sad

[worthy steeple]

you cant call this balanced. teno got massive nerfs while cera got a lot of buffs to its already op kit

[crimson crater]

kick does 250 what?

[hasty coyote]

is it 250? thought it got nerfed to 225

[worthy steeple]

wait WHAT?

[crimson crater]

nah it is 250

[hasty coyote]

either way still EQUAL damage to a single attack

[worthy steeple]

no way

[timber tusk]

Yeah, that’s for the devs I think. Systems that can encourage and reward fair play. Like diets force you to move around and engage in unique encounters, but for unneeded combat. How do you mechanically reward two players for bumping into eachother and deciding not to kill eachother just for being there? Maybe if diet depleated faster in combat?
…I have no idea…

[worthy steeple]

wait no way they nerfed it again, i need to test that

[crimson crater]

625 dmg is the average teno combo tbf

[hasty coyote]

how?

[dusky surge]

what

unless the combo is on a stationary target idk how that is lol

[worthy steeple]

515 just one cera bite. and then 3 more while ur puking

[dusky surge]

like the dude has to be AFK for you to land 625 damage

[crimson crater]

1 kick to the body to immobilize the opponent which allows for a free follow up headshot kick

[hasty coyote]

teno's tail slam now has a 1 second attack lock AFTER the animation is done, you are only landing 1 kick

[crimson crater]

no lmao

[dusky surge]

god its so lame lol

[dusky surge]

how does that add up to 625????

[hasty coyote]

aint no way you are landing more than one kick on a single target. Even then, a headshot is only 1.5x, so thats 562.5

[crimson crater]

250 body shot + 375 headshot

[hasty coyote]

oh wait did math wong

based it on 225, not 250.

[timber tusk]

All of us here could agree to give others a chance to be chill, but then when they betray that, mess em up. Like, if there was a way to track who attacks first or attacked after friendly calls… I don’t know…

[crimson crater]

bro what, the kick STUNS you, which allows for another hit

[dusky surge]

no matter how hard you try, you cant force sportsmanship

[worthy steeple]

tbf it wasnt that bad before, but with the maias in the game i want tenos damage back.

[crimson crater]

tailslams yea, the kick is fine

[worthy steeple]

and after the ai changes, because i see cerato overpacks everywhere

[hasty coyote]

it also knocks back, so unless that cera aint moving or runs into you after the stun, you should not be landing a second kick on the head.

[worthy steeple]

its not lol, its literally not

especially with the 15% damage reduction mutation being it the game

its so unfair, like actually so unfair

[timber tusk]

I can’t wait for Quetz. I wanna decent onto a mix pack in style and blood!

[crimson crater]

you literally can idk what to tell you man, i do it all the time as a teno and have had people do it against me, literally common knowledge.
you just need to angle yourself which takes 0.5 seconds, not so hard

[crimson crater]

275 was a bit too much

[timber tusk]

Y’all have lost me in meta talk. I just wanna catch fish. 🎣

[worthy steeple]

i mean you can hit tailslam + kick + kick combo. but 90% of the times the enemy recovers super fast, you literally dont even have the time to do the combo

[crimson crater]

kick + kick:

[dusky surge]

oh that mutation is foul lol

i despise that mutation so much

[worthy steeple]

cera with that mutation literally has 1490 hp lol

[dusky surge]

plus corpse buffs that gives it 2980

basically as tanky as a DIBBLE

[worthy steeple]

yeah pretty much

[hasty coyote]

I aint gonna lie, I am one of those people who will kill other for sport, tho it depends on the dino I'm playing and what I see and such. And I can tell ya, theres nothing that will stop me from attacking someone for sport unless theres consequences. And theres no ways to add consequences that doesnt hurt the average player majorly.

[dusky surge]

EXCEPT CERATO DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN A DIBBLE

[worthy steeple]

hehe

[crimson crater]

dibble has better dmg potential tbf but i see what u mean

[hasty coyote]

cera gaining cc resistance on a corpse:

[crimson crater]

only up to a certain threshold. diablos can still knock them down

[worthy steeple]

btw after the first puke the cera needs one bite to make you puke again.

which means it can wait for the cooldown, bite you and then bite you few more time, because ur locked in puking animation

[hasty coyote]

can they? I havent tested but I remember when maia first came out, they coulddn't knock down ceras with the shove if they were on a corpse

[worthy steeple]

nice

[worthy steeple]

as they should

[crimson crater]

yea just tested it today

[worthy steeple]

defending current cera is insane tbh, like you cant deny its op, you just cant

[hasty coyote]

good to note

[dusky surge]

this is also very true and a huge part of why they're so strong

[crimson crater]

puking animation that can immediately get canceled if the cera bites you

[crimson crater]

there’s a long cool-down on it

[worthy steeple]

the most annoying thing is that they can bite instantly after they recover from the tenos combo, which means even if you combo them they bite you and then do their combo lol

[timber tusk]

That’s why I made this little recommendation. So players like you will have to stop and decide if they really wanna risk getting temporary blindness or just major damage for attacking someone they don’t need to. You feel lucky? Wanna flip that coin?
(Mostly I just want to be sure that Quetz I scary whether or not it is flying. Scarier on land, actually.)

Also, I would like to encourage you (in being tho it may be) to not kill for sport. It is rude, so please don’t.

[worthy steeple]

doesnt matter, you take one more charge bite that is at least 250 damage, because it charges almost instantly

[crimson crater]

you’ll be trading a body shot for a headshot in that case

[hasty coyote]

for ptera, that wont help it. they just bite it and it dies immediately. What it does do is allow pteras to troll juvies by blinding them and flying off.

[worthy steeple]

i like how you keep defending obvious cheese and op strat

[crimson crater]

teno is exactly the same, animation lock etc

[worthy steeple]

its not even a strat, its just.. poor balance

[crimson crater]

cera can defend itself against tenos! how dare it

[worthy steeple]

its not the same lol

[worthy steeple]

if only it could just defend. not running around the map in 5-6 cera packs

if only cera was good at one thing, not at literally everything

[timber tusk]

Not if Ptera bite is worse. That’s the actual proposition. Give all flyers a WAY meaner grounded bite. They’ll be glass canons, still die in one or two hits if you sneak up on one or are just quicker, but if you lose that coin toss and then can’t see, or just straight up die?

Some players won’t want to risk that, especially if they know they’ve been spotted. As is, Ptera is useless on the ground, dead no matter what. Only a loooooong stretch of beach can save a Ptera from a charging herbivore.

[crimson crater]

it isn’t good at everything, it just needs to work better as intended

[worthy steeple]

it is, its literally good at everything you can be good at

[crimson crater]

like?

[worthy steeple]

oh dont make me start

[crimson crater]

it has bad stam, slow speed and sucks as a juvi

[worthy steeple]

50% bleed resistance
body buff
quick bites
can stun
doesnt puke

cant overeat

doesnt need much food

eats everything

swims super fast, can alt bite

[viscid mica]

What we talking about now

[crimson crater]

bro it needs 1.3T worth of food to fill its stomach wdym

[worthy steeple]

deosnt matter with this ai

you think thats it? no. it has the best scent range

[crimson crater]

“cera is op”

[worthy steeple]

and has literally everything

it uses the charge bite with no stam cost and stuff

[viscid mica]

It’s not op the vomit could use a tweak so you could sprint while puking to prevent free hit but it’s not particularly op

[worthy steeple]

like the amount of buffs it has is insane, literally insane

you cant call this balanced or good for the game

i get it, you like playing cera, but it shouldnt be that strong

[timber tusk]

And no Ptera would blind a juvie then leave it. They would blind it, kill it, and eat it. If the juvie was trying to hunt the Ptera, that’s the cost of losing. If the Ptera snuck up on the juvie, then that’s just silly. Pteras are terrible walkers and can only land safely by flapping their wings really loud. If that sneaks up on you, you weren’t paying attention.

It would also make a muscle spasm Ptera into a fun game of Russian roulette.

[viscid mica]

@timber tusk anti body camping sounds hot

[crimson crater]

and herbivores don’t need ai at all, they have it even easier especially teno.

• fairly tanky
• stamina efficient
• one of the fastest trot speeds
• fastest swim speed (not including semi aquatics)
• easy to grow and maintain
• has one of the best and most versatile combat kits
• evasive etc

[worthy steeple]

no, its not good. with the gastro being in game its not good. maybe if they remove it

and imagine if something died next to ur nest, like you will be forced to stay near the body and get the debuff

[viscid mica]

I mean I already don’t like gastro or tactile so

BOTH VERY OP won’t be good for game health as bigger Dino’s appear

[crimson crater]

slightly overtuned is the word for it, but it ain’t outright oppressive and makes every other playable unviable with its presence

[viscid mica]

Think about how much 5% of a 9T Rex is

[dusky surge]

cerato is actively tanky, not fairly tanky, far more stamina efficient, has a near equal swimspeed but also an aquatic alt-bite, is EXTREMELY easy to grow and maintain because you can smell food across the equator, has an extremely strong combat kit that's easy to use and is far more agile than teno, making it more evasive

[worthy steeple]

tanky is not a buff.
cera has the same swimming speed as teno, but it can attack and alt bite in the water lol,
and teno can only use its swimming speed to swim away from the carnivores, not fight.

the best combat kit is only good if you mastered the teno. it got to many nerfs i cant even find any other teno on the server

[viscid mica]

Tons on na

[timber tusk]

Watch for me when Quetz comes out. That or I need to figure out a Ptera build that can actually solo something bigger than itself…

Let. Me. Eat. Carrion.

[viscid mica]

But if I’m being fair it sounds like na tenos are better

[worthy steeple]

the thing is, teno having stats it has is justified, cera having all its buffs is not

thats the biggest issue

[viscid mica]

You can kill Herrera at full grown with headshots

[worthy steeple]

cera has so many buffs it shouldnt have

[crimson crater]

teno is more tanky, has overall better stamina (2% is nothing for the run time it has), teno is WAY easier to grow and maintain compared to cera, teno has better matchups in general, it can jump and swim to escape threats so cera ain’t more evasive

[worthy steeple]

like to the point when it needs a massive nerf or a complete rework

[viscid mica]

Not really only thing that needs some running is vomit stop

[worthy steeple]

it has 20 seconds more stamina, its nothing

[crimson crater]

cera is slower in water + the alt bite takes a ridiculous amount of stamina

[worthy steeple]

and its using stamina for its attacks unlike cera

[viscid mica]

Tbh gastro and tactile are ok for the under 2T Dino’s anything bigger and they far too op etc see stego with tac

[worthy steeple]

0.1km/h slower

[crimson crater]

ceras alt bite takes stamina

[worthy steeple]

1%?

cmon man

[crimson crater]

as much as tenos strongest attack, that says a lot

[hasty coyote]

when are you ever alt biting as cera?

[crimson crater]

then again the charged bite takes nothing so

[worthy steeple]

huh?

[crimson crater]

against carnos, dilos, omnis etc

[worthy steeple]

its pretty effective, not against the teno or dibble tho, but against the small things it is

[crimson crater]

ceras alt bite takes as much stamina as tenos kick

[viscid mica]

I mean cera is significantly larger than a lot of things

[worthy steeple]

only if you 180

its same for the teno, 1% if you attack in front of you, 2% if you fo 180, but it cant really do 180 its more like 160

and teno also does a lot less damage with its alt attack

not like i want more damage, its just so you wont call it op or something

[crimson crater]

its alt attack is extremely fast

with good bleed dmg

[worthy steeple]

only the one that costs 1% stam

and its the same speed as ceratos regular bite

and cera does A LOT of bleed as well

[crimson crater]

no faster

[worthy steeple]

its not, its the same speed pretty much and even if it was its still does less damage

cmon man give up, stop defending something that is so obviously op

its not even funny anymore

[crimson crater]

it could use some small nerfs but it ain’t so op

[timber tusk]

Herera small, tho that’d be satisfying. I die to them a lot, for obvious reasons.

[viscid mica]

I’ve killed afew to date

[worthy steeple]

#general-feedback-discussion message #general-feedback-discussion message

i mean

its like i talk with 2 different flows

[crimson crater]

rework≠nerf

[worthy steeple]

rework is rework

[timber tusk]

But I’m on Herera’s diet, they can kill me all they want. It’s the Maias and Gallis I’d like to peck in the eye, when they trample me that is. I’d rather find chill Maias than any of that.

[worthy steeple]

you cant make cera even stronger, its already op, which means it should be a nerf

[crimson crater]

btw this^

[worthy steeple]

same what happened with the carno, it wasnt technically a nerf, but its a lot worse at some things now

[timber tusk]

The Cera nerf is called Rex, and she’s on the way.

[crimson crater]

i don’t get how you believe cera is op, killing them is easier than most playables

[worthy steeple]

its not, adding another dino wont make the current one less op

same with the allo

we will see less ceras around, thats for sure, tho it wont make it less op

[crimson crater]

i wouldn’t call it a rework, just straight up a nerf. they decreased its weight, dmg and speed without compensating most of it

[viscid mica]

The trick is to attack them while they climb they never see it coming plus they can’t do up jumps to make you fall

[worthy steeple]

i mean it’s not lol

[viscid mica]

Or if they sitting on a branch they can’t jump or they fall

[worthy steeple]

infinite charges, that makes carno a lot better as a brawler

[vale brook]

tbf all carno needs rn is to have its growth reduced to cera time and its pretty much fine. maybe make sub adults faster than adults as well to help them deal with things like dilos/omnis/etc

also remove to stupid bleed multiplier it has

[crimson crater]

which does almost as much dmg as a dilo, i like this new carno but it’s just underperforming

[worthy steeple]

this is just one gaming session. all killed by me. if i can kill them doesnt mean they’re not op, it just means i can kill them.

op doesnt mean invincible, it means is OVERpowered

[worthy steeple]

.

[crimson crater]

if it is op shouldn’t you have a harder time against them compared to most playables

[worthy steeple]

ofc i have easier time killing ceras than stegos, doesnt mean cera is not op

[vale brook]

teno is also one of the playables best equipped for handling ceratos imo as well

[crimson crater]

where are you getting stegos from lol, by most things i don’t mean an apex

[worthy steeple]

cera being 1.3t scavenger has the damage output of an allo, insane agility and insane amount of buffs

[crimson crater]

allo ain’t even out yet

it could have 600 dmg for all we know

[worthy steeple]

its not, what i mean is cera deals the damage it should deal

its too much

[crimson crater]

teno has decent dmg but you seem fine with that

[worthy steeple]

too many buffs, good at everything, an only carnivore apex

[crimson crater]

similar*

[worthy steeple]

the difference is that teno doesnt have even half of the buffs cera has and it can only ever be defensive.

its not hunter

[crimson crater]

what can cera hunt

[worthy steeple]

guess

everything?

[crimson crater]

nah

[worthy steeple]

yah

[crimson crater]

slow speed + bad stamina

[worthy steeple]

bad stamina? huh

[crimson crater]

cerato has one of the shortest run times

[worthy steeple]

its faster than almost all the herbivores + 0.1 km.h slower than the teno which doesnt matter usually

[crimson crater]

it does matter

[worthy steeple]

2 and half minutes

2.25

[crimson crater]

no? since when

[worthy steeple]

its a lot

and if it makes something vomit it takes all the stamina

[crimson crater]

still has worse stamina than most things except for dibble, stego and deino

[worthy steeple]

which gives cera even more advantages

[crimson crater]

it takes 10% iirc

[worthy steeple]

the difference is that it doesnt use stam for its attacks, so it can use all 2.25 minutes

[worthy steeple]

a lot more

and it doesnt let regen the stamina

[crimson crater]

you should still have no trouble escaping them unless you burnt most of it trying to hit them

[worthy steeple]

2 bites and you cant

2 bites to make teno vomit and then it cannot run away

[crimson crater]

it lowers the regeneration threshold and at a certain percentage you gain some back from vomiting (its a bug tbf)

[crimson crater]

it literally can, you will still have around the same amount of stam a cera has

[worthy steeple]

doubt that tbh, 0.1km/h speed difference doesnt let you run away far enough for them to not be able to track you

better trot does help, but idk really, not a game changer

[crimson crater]

they have a slower trott speed, if both of y’all run out you will still be able to escape it

besides most areas have a rock to jump on, west rail, south plains, east plains, highlands, delta etc

[worthy steeple]

its just doesnt sound realistic, you will most likely die from them biting your tail before you can escape

[crimson crater]

no? you’re faster

[worthy steeple]

too situational

[crimson crater]

i just mentioned 80% of the map

[worthy steeple]

0.1 doesnt matter, like actually

[crimson crater]

so you wouldn’t mind if we buff cera to be 0.1 kmh faster than tenos right?

it does matter

[worthy steeple]

cant balance around the map design, its not fair. and rocks are actually super rare lol, its not like you can find them everywhere

[crimson crater]

they will be able to keep up yes but they won’t be able to bite u

[crimson crater]

you can balance around map design, herrera exists

[worthy steeple]

and teno being able to outrun cera doesnt make cera less op

[crimson crater]

yes but it means that ceras can’t hunt them

[worthy steeple]

not the same, trees are everywhere, herreras are made for climbing the trees, like deinos are made to swim, teno is not made to camp the rocks and climb them to escape the damger all the time

maybe if rocks were everywhere. but theres just few around the giant map

[crimson crater]

no but i’m just saying that it’s 1 of many ways to escape ceras

[worthy steeple]

it is, for sure

but it like just doesnt fix ceras main issue at being too good

[crimson crater]

too good at what specifically?

[worthy steeple]

fighting cera is just not fun, its annoying

[crimson crater]

as it should be

[worthy steeple]

oh dont make me repeat all i said before

[worthy steeple]

if only there was a way to not fight it as most herbivores

[crimson crater]

you only mentioned their stats, didn’t explain what they’re too good at

[worthy steeple]

if only there werent giant cera packs running around the map

[crimson crater]

what herbis?

u mean dibble which can defend itself easily from a cera

[worthy steeple]

good at dealing bleed
good at defense
good at offense
good at being the body bully
good at being a hunter
good at being agile
good swimmer
good at surviving

[crimson crater]

its bad at defense

[worthy steeple]

its too vague, its better to just list all the buffs

[crimson crater]

it is a brawler yea but idk about a hunter

[worthy steeple]

its not? guess why it has the charge bite and body buff

[worthy steeple]

its amazing hunter, it has 3 times the scent range

1500m

and not using the stam for its special ability makes it even better as a brawler and hunter

[crimson crater]

charged bite dosent help you stand your ground, something like a teno for example is defensive as it can stun its opponents before they get to its critical spots, unlike cera since it has its strongest attack in its weak spot

[crimson crater]

what does scent range have to do with hunting? just helps you find food easier

[worthy steeple]

i mean, doesnt make it worse as the hunter

[worthy steeple]

fair

i would rather want it to be just an amazing scavenger and body bully, nothing more

[crimson crater]

as long as it can defend itself i wouldn’t mind its hunting capability being nerfed ig

[dusky surge]

agreed

i always have thought its defensive capabilities were below par

[timber tusk]

Random thought. What if they opened up the Grouping mechanic to include mixed groups, but groups that stick to one species get some sort of buff (or debuff mixed groups). Is that anything? Or would that be too easy to work around by just not grouping? Maybe if friendly fire was turned off between group member?

The friendly fire might make in-game groups more desirable than discord call “groups” in general.

[dusky surge]

feels weird. why do that when mixpacks already work, and packs already have an advantage over solos?

it feels like it's shifting the balance scale even further on the side of the groups and really punishing solos for being solos

[timber tusk]

Maybe JUST turning off friendly fire in a group, so you will only ever not accidentally hit your same-species group members.

[dusky surge]

that alone is INSANELY broken tbh

like there's a reason that isn't a thing

they have a slight damage reduction on same-group members as a middle ground

it basically means that groups can zerg rush their prey carelessly and spam attacks with little to no need for spacing or timing, which many animals cannot hope to deal with

[timber tusk]

Yeah, I think you’re right about that. Groups running the risk of hitting eachother makes 1v5s more viable as the game stands. Oh well, just spitballing.

[dusky surge]

Nah it's fair

[timber tusk]

Word up

[dusky surge]

Just saying that you gotta consider solo players when discussing things like this

Because not everyone has, or wants, a group

Some animals, like deino, don't even like existing around lots of their own kind and would rather eat them than work with them

[timber tusk]

And I play solo all the time, unless I meet friendly randos, in game. So yeah, you’ve got me there.

[worthy steeple]

tbf i’m fine with mixgroup and overpack mechanic being added to the community servers as an option.

majority of the mixpacking players will move to the community servers where that’s allowed. because why would they play on officials when they can have more fun on community and actually be in a group, seeing name tags and etc.

also being able to chat

and forcing devs vision of the game is not fun, i want community servers to have more freedom

[timber tusk]

That’s… actually a pretty good thought. Give them a separate space to do that. It wouldn’t stop the ones that just want to bully solo randos, but it might cut down on some of the bs.

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[timber tusk]

I hear that. I think the devs have the right to make their version of the game a reality, but, and I say this a LOT on this discord, more options are ALWAYS better than fewer options.

When this game gets out of early access and opens up to mods, it’s going to have a bustling modding community, for good or ill.

[worthy steeple]

yeah i mean, if it’s server side mod it should be fine, let everyone have fun their own way

[timber tusk]

Word up!

That’ll definitely result in some… questionable servers… But that’s where that gets to stay.

That’ll happen no matter what.

[worthy steeple]

that’s a good thing imo, majority of the mixpackers will move to those server, it will help isolate them from the rest of the community lmao

[viscid mica]

Doubt it mix packers won’t be a massive issue once bigger Dino’s drop

The only reason they are so oppressive is cuz nothing can easily beat or duel a dibble rn

[worthy steeple]

AHHAHHA NO. it will be even worse

[viscid mica]

How

[worthy steeple]

like ten times worse

[worthy steeple]

what will easily beat rex in 1v1?

[viscid mica]

Nothing on herbi that is big is fast enough to get involved

[worthy steeple]

another rex?

[viscid mica]

Trike

[worthy steeple]

it will be slower

[viscid mica]

Yes

That’s my point thou

Plus Rex isn’t that fast either it’s more burst than anything

And how you keeping a FG Rex fed and a large number of minis

[worthy steeple]

with that amount of ai around? + they’re adding dino ai too 💀

i don’t see rex and trike fixing mixpacks, they will make things only worse

[dusky surge]

oh yea dino AI will really help those mixpacks 👍

[viscid mica]

I didn’t mean Rex and trike

[dusky surge]

big mixpack buff

[viscid mica]

I meant stuff like allo bigger carni

[hasty coyote]

having bigger dinos jsut gives them more options. When stuff like cera and diablo were released, the mixpackers got worse to deal with, not better.

[viscid mica]

Dibble won’t be steam rolling a allo like it does all the carnis rn

[worthy steeple]

i mean, we will see allo+dibble mixpack

allo + cera

like it doesn’t matter what they add, it won’t stop the mixpack

[viscid mica]

The only thing that makes mix packing so oppressive rn is numbers and dibbles being able to steam role everything

[worthy steeple]

wdym😭 it wasnt about mixpacks, it was about rex not starving because they will add teno and carno ai

[viscid mica]

You remove the power to stream role you remove their main weapon a small group or solo that does immediately run when mix packers appear is always gonna die

[viscid mica]

Ya not a fan tbh

[worthy steeple]

them adding bigger ai dinos will help big carnivores not to starve

[dusky surge]

it will though. need a huge rex for the mixpack? it can be sustained

[viscid mica]

If they only spawn near big carnis like the 5T guys sure

[worthy steeple]

i still dont understand why in a world we need bigger ai

and especially ai playabales

[hasty coyote]

you do realize the main threat of mixpackers right? the fact that they have fast AND big dinos. So you can't run or you get whittled down by the faster ones, and if you fight the faster ones the big ones kill you. So now If you stand your ground, rex and trike. If you run, theres a carno and an allo on you.

[worthy steeple]

pretty much yeah

[viscid mica]

If allo out runs cera there will be no cera players

[hasty coyote]

thats what the carno is for

[viscid mica]

1 bite and keep moving that carno will bleed to death before you even get to half HP on most things

[hasty coyote]

allo may not catch you, but it can keep pace enough to prevent fighting back

[viscid mica]

I dunno

[viscid mica]

Seriously makes no sense to me either

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, good luck fighting carno + any apex mixpack, can’t run away, can’t fight back because if you stop the apex will catch you

[viscid mica]

I mean think of the stam Apex have to exert to even remotely keep pace

[worthy steeple]

i guess it’s fair to hate mechanic that is not in the game yet. but i still do. i just don’t understand how that can be good.

[viscid mica]

You can always lead them far enough away to box em

[worthy steeple]

the only good thing is that it will be possible to make the isle single player game

[viscid mica]

I hope it’s more rare than anything

[vale brook]

we've had it in the past and they were walking buffets for megapacks.

your worries are based in reality, dont doubt yourself

[viscid mica]

A single player mode doesn’t sound terrible tbh

[worthy steeple]

and i would honestly like single player version of the isle, but idk if it’s even possible with such complicated combat?

[worthy steeple]

ikr, it’s horrible

[viscid mica]

I mean tbh the only way to really combat mix packing is mega packing

And the only way to stop both is for rules to become admin enforced or create De-buffs

Personally think there is a difference between herds and mix packing thou

Like herbis should have free range to hang

[worthy steeple]

i also see ai being added only for humans, idk what role they’re gonna play, but maybe ai dino is somehow related to humans gameplay?

[viscid mica]

Carnivorous is abit more complex

[viscid mica]

If I can tame and ride a carno I will be so happy

[worthy steeple]

LMAO NO

[viscid mica]

YES AHAHAHA

[worthy steeple]

XDDD

[viscid mica]

FEAR ME DINOS FOR I AM AK CARNO MAN

[worthy steeple]

😭😭😭

[viscid mica]

anyways I do think bigger carnivores will help curb mix packing more than you think

Like I can see allo 4 mans stomping dibble cera groups

[worthy steeple]

or joining them and being even stronger together

🥹

[viscid mica]

Unfortunately mixpacking is something that can only be fixed with staff enforcement

As mechanics angled against it can turn bad and be abused

[worthy steeple]

that’s for sure

[viscid mica]

Etc a comment I made to snow about galli trolling

[viscid mica]

I also don’t think mix packing groups got the energy to grow a FG Rex they basically rage quit if you kill more than 1 of them

The best counter to mix packers is nesting and mega packing your own species

Etc our 13 man dilo group from afew days ago that almost brought a mixpacking deino to death and made him rage quit and leave the cera trio he was guarding to perish to us

[dusky surge]

god i hope taming is never a thing on humans

[viscid mica]

XD it’d be funny lol

Maybe add horses!?

[dusky surge]

I mean

[viscid mica]

A bit of a quiter travel

[dusky surge]

They're adding cars and dirt bikes lol

[viscid mica]

Horses would be cool!

[viscid mica]

Ya but those are gonna be so loud

[dusky surge]

Although horse AI would be interesting, ngl

[viscid mica]

RIGHT

plus horses are fast enough to survive pretty well

[dusky surge]

If we want larger AI, horses fit that bill, while having potentially interesting interactions with humans

[cursive falcon]

#balance-feedback message

i love this guys idea minus the group limit

[viscid mica]

Average horse breed hit 40-48kmph

[viscid mica]

Horse, cows, and for the funny MOOSE AHAHA

[dusky surge]

i dont think a moose would work

[viscid mica]

Wdym

Moose can live in any climate a deer can easily

[dusky surge]

they're more temperate creatures, plus their entire surival plan relies on them being powerful enough to frighten off even the largest predators in their ecosystem, which they wouldn't be on The Isle

[viscid mica]

I mean kinda

[dusky surge]

deer have speed and insanely fast breeding to help them populate

they're extremely invasive for that reason

[viscid mica]

How small do you think moose are

Moose are almost cera sized XD

[dusky surge]

not very lol

yea, but that's not my point

[viscid mica]

I get it I’m just joking but you know what I mean

I think more larger rural Ai is better than Ai playables

Plus like a canro Ai sounds like a pain in the AH as a smaller Dino

[dusky surge]

most of The Isle's AI are actually invasive species. IDK if this is intentional but it's super interesting given the game's lore and how much sense it makes that only invasive species known for being extremely adaptable to any ecosystem to thrive in an island covered in dinos

bullfrogs, rabbits, boar, deer, all are extremely good at being highly invasive and difficult to remove from an ecosystem once in there

[viscid mica]

Horses would fit perfectly then

[dusky surge]

yea i thought so too

they're pretty adaptable to any ecosystem and would make sense for humans to actually bring along with them

[viscid mica]

Literally in every corner of the world

Would add something to sustain bigger boys for sure

And could add some intresting mechanics such as a quieter way to travel for humans

[dusky surge]

i dont think cows would work because i genuinely think their entire population would be wiped out within days because they lack any proper natural defense from the dinos

[viscid mica]

Fair

Buffalo of some kinda would probably do better

[dusky surge]

maybe? idk about that tbh

[viscid mica]

Meh just ideas like I said Ai playables especially ones as like carno and teno souls incredibly annoying and free food for large mixpacks

[worthy steeple]

yeah i would love horse ai being added. actually makes sense

[iron tree]

Teno's long lost sibling

[warm flax]

anything is kinda free food for mixpacks, at least with ai dinos ppl can live far away from them

[dusky surge]

brother that's making MORE and bigger mixpacks

[viscid mica]

Hopefully elder system will have some effects on that

[viscid mica]

Ya this too

[dusky surge]

if the solution is "live on some desolate part of the map and just hunt AI for my entire life", I think at that point we gotta acknowledge that they aren't good

[viscid mica]

Current solutions are either play something that puts you in a position to avoid them like beipi, PT and Herrera or mega pack your group

That or play fast things

But even than carnos exist

[viscid mica]

Bro it is a problem the smaller mix packs of like duo cera and dibble aren’t nearly as bad as the super packs that have become more and more common

[warm flax]

good, let them fight while I hang around in my little corner like east part of the map where usually only juvi will pass through

[viscid mica]

Na2 average gameplay loop 6 man mix pack 12 man mix pack 13 omni group just to compete 7 man dibble group 5 stego group and random galli

[dusky surge]

yea but dont you see the problem with this

[viscid mica]

That shouldn’t even be something people consider thou like that’s the problem

[dusky surge]

you're enabling a problem and then to deal with it, simply not engaging with the game

like... no one wins

[viscid mica]

You should want and be able to adventure

[dusky surge]

you're unable to experience the game as it should be experienced, and instead effectively sentenced yourself to a singleplayer experience on some dead part of the map no one likes

[viscid mica]

I don’t mind if it’s big groups of all 1 Dino but these groups of 13 with 9 different Dino’s meaning 9 different abilities is absurd

[viscid mica]

Fr

[warm flax]

they are gonna to kos everything no matter what , so why not let player to decide where they want to hang around
dying to 6 cera or 12 cera is kinda the same

[dusky surge]

because making the problem worse is just going to make more people suffer

[viscid mica]

I mean yes but no but yes I got your meaning but there is abit of a difference from getting cera clamped than getting knocked by a dibble while venomed by a dilo and vomiting from cera

[viscid mica]

^^^^^what bro said

[warm flax]

we already have this kind of stuff, no matter the ai works or not
tbh, it feels so much worse when there is no ai and you are force go to some dead body pile camping by mixpacker at south plain

[dusky surge]

there's currently tons of AI

we don't need entire organ-filled dino AI too

[viscid mica]

^

[viscid mica]

Ai spawn other places but I just don’t think organ full Ai like previously said will help anything other than grow these mix packs 3x faster

[warm flax]

speaking about ai spawns, did they broke the fish spawn again?
saw plenty of post talking about them not spawning while the land ai works fine.

[fiery shard]

I think they just increased land ai spawns and reduced the fish spawning

but. there are always fish spawning in the sp river

but [2] there are almost always no fish in the central river

[warm flax]

I guess they really like deinos to camp at sp instead of being in the swamp

[fierce forge]

Not sure, i went an entire hunger bar as deino (with the reduced hunger drain) finding pretty much zero fish. I was able to find some on relog though(i was in the swampy area).
I then spent an entire ingame day waiting for fish to spawn yesterday.
I guess the issue with fish spawns is that only 3 actually dinos can catch them so mayb they have reduced spawn priority?

[warm flax]

the stam you need to burn in order to catch 1-2 of these elite fish is ridiculous

[fiery shard]

agreed. it's not funny when I burn ~70% stam to catch 1 elite fish and only get 5% hunger

[viscid mica]

Fish always be finicky you need like more than 1 thing in the area otherwise it’s always bone dry

[fiery shard]

honestly, my deino right now is saved by two things: elite fish that spawns 5 fish at a time + other crocs I kill and eat. on sp I've seen a few players drinking behind a rock where it's very hard to catch them

if they see you, they will go drinking in the three lakes that are close by. it's horrible for deino. that being said, deino can't eat lil fish effectively

[warm flax]

ppl in this chat will reply with "skill issue", "it is an 8 ton apex' then end the conversation ,maybe adding some emojis.
while ignoring most of the playables can move across the map within like 10 mins , covering vast area to find AI.
and killing these ai like a group of boar /deer doesn't require you to burn out your stam

[haughty grotto]

@fiery shard @warm flax ive played plenty of deino but I still kinda agree with the changes
Helps to counter deino overpopulation cause there were too many growing too easily

About elite fish: they are meant to be ambushed not chased. When you spot one, just sit completely still at the bottom of the river bed and wait for it to come close, then when it turns around just grab it (it won't run). You should not be wasting any stamina on them.
About schooling fish spawn, it only happens mainly in certain areas consistently, you have to learn those spots. Also the fish spawn rate is much lower at night and during rain.

So there kinda is a skill / knowledge component here too. Regardless even with a lot of experience, deino is super difficult to maintain cause it's an apex and therefore should be a rare sight rather than being the most commonly played carnivore

[worthy steeple]

i agree with that

[fiery shard]

elite fish crash into the rocks and sit there for hours, or similarly crash into the bottom and sit there. i think this is the end of the “sit and wait” talk

on sp river, I pull elite fish out of the rocks all the time

almost all deinos are cannibals. there were a lot of them only on Spiro (Islander and similar heresies are not considered)

when u have 8 lakes on map, deino gameplay is not about skill but about luck and only luck

apex should be a rare
would love to hear about this about a t-rex that won't have any food issues

[dusky surge]

why wont it

[elfin night]

I really wish things above allo size are genuinely hard to grow and maintain

not just rng boredom like deino

[vale brook]

it SHOULD have food issues, and rexes that are sub adult and up SHOULD be rare, just as deinos that are sub and above should be are

[elfin night]

mhm

hopefully rex above 40-50% cannot live exclusively off AI

[vale brook]

granted, no way of knowing until its out. we can only hope that we wont have a repeat of legacy where apexes were stupidly easy to grow. i have faith in em though

but the deino changes are a step in the right direction to making sure apexes are sufficently rare and hard to grow. they shouldnt be for every player, but instead the players that are the most skilled in game and have extensive knowledge about it and the internal mechanics, alongside a hefty amount of determination.

this is somewhat of a problem right now due to no tutorial or any hints in game, but thats changing with the UI update thats coming relatively soon.

[elfin night]

hopefully rex will also be more skill dependent than deino to survive as well

since all deino can do is hope that someone will walk into the water to take a drink or swim at the wrong place and the wrong time

and well, deino gameplay takes negative skill too

I can only wish Rex is different in both aspects

[vale brook]

oh absolutely. i dont nessecarily have issue with deino having some inherent luck needed to thrive, but i dont exactly think its great either. i think its just one of those things you should know youre signing up for when you pick a water locked ambush hunter

[elfin night]

true

it's something inherent of deino

[iron tree]

I think rex will be skill dependent as you've to be able to sneak up on something AND to get the jump on it. As a large carnivore. I think almost everything will be faster than rex too

[haughty grotto]

If you go to tiny lakes then yes ofc you're only relying on luck
That should not be deino gameplay imo
Deinos shouldn't have free access to every single water body and live off fish forever until someone comes along for a couple sips so that they get easy kills in an easy effortless life
Stick to main river areas and you'll do fine mostly
Ofc you'll have to cannibalize and not miss your grabbing opportunities to be able to survive
It's a high skill high maintenance thing

[haughty grotto]

Also I don't think you understood what I said.
You're not supposed to sit and wait for elite fish.
You roam around till you find one but instead of chasing it just lie still at the bottom. If it's not stuck in a rock, it'll swim to you and then turn it's back, giving you a window to grab it

[tropic horizon]

@elfin night I do agree with some the pachy buffs but it’d honestly make more sense to just remove speed mutations. If they aren’t gonna do so then this change makes a bit of sense but also I think that’d result in Pachy being able to chase down raptors who don’t have the speed mutation I think. Or at least be VERY close to their speed.

Nevermind did that math, it wouldn’t be as fast as them but it would be close.

[iron tree]

it'd be close

BUT pachy's headbutt slows it down

[mellow sable]

nerf everything.. buff herra

[vagrant plover]

double Nerf stego

[hasty coyote]

You do realize how much slower pachies are than Omnis right? Even if we buff pachy to its current speed mutation speed at base (around 43), it still won’t catch an Omni without a speed mutation even if it has it (Omni at base is like 46 and a 43 pachy with speed mutation would only be 45).

Tho I do 100% agree, speed mutations ruin balance and need to have never existed. I’m honestly surprised they still exist.

[carmine tundra]

@tacit hull devs are bent on making carno a small game hunter, we likely wont probably see its weight changed anytime soon

i probably shouldnt have pinged mb

[tacit hull]

That's okay! I was just providing my own input as it is currently a bit too small by any modern estimate. And it in fact did hunt small prey, but it was also an ambush predator that took down impressively large specimens too. However currently it appears to be in the same weight class as the ceratosaurus which is not accurate.

Of course I recognize that this is a game and things have to be balanced around that too, but for the sake of realism I would give the carnotaurus at least a 300 kilogram bump in size.

[vale brook]

the game isnt focused on realism

3 ton diablo, schizophrenic dilophosaurus, monkey herrera

[stark knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[vale brook]

troodon as a whole

[tacit hull]

That's true. The diabloceratops is a bit too heavy as well. I just didn't want to nitpick across the board but point out something rather obvious about the carnotaurus.

[hasty coyote]

That 300kg bump makes it weigh as much as teno and tank 1-2 more hits (or more if fighting smalls), which is actually a really big difference in combat.

[tacit hull]

Right. As I said I totally understand that it's a game and the species have to adhere to their unique roles.

[hasty coyote]

If you really want to see an inaccuracy, go see how big beipi really was

It wasn’t a tiny duck

[tacit hull]

lol. I will~

Well, hopefully balance changes arrive in due time when more animals make it to the isle. I have hope for the carnotaurus.

[hasty coyote]

Carno could use some buffs, but honestly I think the weight nerf makes it 10x easier to balance, they gave it so many specific weaknesses so that certain animals could put up a better fight or escape because carno was so big. Though they should probably remove a lot of the weaknesses since they aren’t really necessary anymore.

Like it has incredibly low fracture hp for its size for pachy and high bleed multipliers for Omni and teno. They would likely have to keep expanding this list as more combative smalls are added.

[vale brook]

• remove weird bleed multipler it has
• buff charge damage by about 50
• increase speed slightly
• change growth time to match cera

and then you have the perfect small game hunter carno

[tacit hull]

Oh interesting. I wasn't aware of its in-game history.

For me it was essentially its real life counterpart that peeved me enough to express my opinion. As its weight doesn't reflect the reality. 1,300 kg is very small for the larger specimens unearthed that put it closer to 2,100.

But even a happy compromise of 1,600 kilograms would be more in line with reality.

[carmine tundra]

the last one was confirmed by dondi

[crimson crater]

hopefully next ht

[hasty coyote]

I'd rather instead of buffing the damage, instead make the initial cc range higher on charge. So like it knocks stuns below 650 (half weight) on a tap charge, and then after the 3 second run up, it knocks down below its weight and stuns up to 1950 (1.5x its weight). So tap charge is a solid cc tool against smalls for it to land a bite, and still decent at fighting things its own tier especially in a group where they can chain the damage.

[eternal iris]

Cerato should also have significantly less weight than it currently has. It's nearly double the size and weight in the Isle compared to its IRL self

[tacit hull]

Yes, that's true. Ceratosaurus most likely weighed as little as 750 kilograms all the way up to 1,500 kilograms. Of course all of these numbers are just estimates entirely based on paleontological findings - which is why it's always important to leave a window of possibility open. It's also entirely possible that some of the larger ceratosaurus specimens achieved a greater size. This is why understanding how a carnivore hunted in relation to the prey at the time tells us a lot about its size and general ability. There's much speculation surrounding its lifestyle - from scavenging dead dinosaurs to hunting smaller prey and even eating fish, turtles, and other aquatic life.

But in that same spirit it is a mainstream consensus that the larger carnotaurus specimens reached up to 2 tons and beyond. Fossils are funny like that in that they provide us with remarkable stories of how they lived and by complementing it with muscles, tissue, and more we get a pretty accurate image of how it looked and weighed. But understanding its role in that eco-system is considerably harder - at least beyond the generalization when you dive into its nuance.

[crimson crater]

yea because game design comes before realism, dibble is a good example of that (before they increased its weight).

[eternal iris]

I don't see why Cerato can't work with its originally intended niche rather than being the large all-around brawler they made it into. Now you just see them everywhere all the time because they are overtuned

[crimson crater]

yea it just needs to work better as intended, it can be done without making it necessarily smaller

[eternal iris]

Being smaller would actually further solidify the previous idea for it's niche. Being that it was more vulnerable to predation from animals like Carno if caught wandering around, but were very formidable specifically when around bodies. They were meant to have an amazing sense of smell to be able to find corpses and bully others off of them with the proximity buff. I just personally don't like the direction they took it

[worthy steeple]

oh no we dont need a smaller cerato, not with the current roster

[eternal iris]

That being said I doubt they will ever go back to the old idea so it's hardly worth discussing

[cosmic pelican]

Maia knocking down cera if it gets below 1.2T

[crimson crater]

carno was never meant to hunt ceras, making it smaller won’t solidify its niche. cera needs a rework to make it less effective at hunting and better at being defensive

[eternal iris]

You sure about that? Because when Cerato first dropped in Evrima you could hunt them pretty comfortably as Carno

[crimson crater]

yea and carno was doing something it wasn’t intended to do🤷‍♂️ just like cera is rn.
that’s why carno got reworked

[worthy steeple]

you want bigger carno for what? for realism? i just dont understand why would current carno be 1.6t. it would be terrible for the balance

it doesnt matter how it was irl. carno is 1.3 for a reason

[cosmic pelican]

1.6T spam charge carno would make current cera look weak

And thats saying a lot lol

[tacit hull]

@worthy steeple
Yes. Because that's what the empirical paleontological evidence suggests. That was my initial reasoning. But I'm not a very accomplished player as I only recently started playing The Isle so I cannot speak in regards to the balances needed (as you pointed out). In that regard it may not work, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

[viscid mica]

I mean carno would get played reasonably more with a minor weigh up and not all the way to 1600 maybe 1400-1500 but a weigh up would certainly give it a good boost in not being completely dog walked if the skill level is the same

[tacit hull]

@viscid mica
That's fair. My suggested compromise was originally 1,600 (as they grew even larger) but the experienced players out there are probably more capable in finding the right numbers for the game's balance.

[viscid mica]

I mean cheesy is a PvP player so he always focuses on what the top 1% can do not your average experienced player

[tacit hull]

Oh, I see.

[viscid mica]

Ya so he is right a super sweaty carno could beat a average cera but if both are same skill level as of rn it’s a complete wash for the carno

[onyx lichen]

@vagrant plover I don't think Troodon needs to bite faster since fuly envenomed targets already take like 75 damage from bites

[vagrant plover]

You have to hit 3 points to even trigger the condition, which only lasts 40 seconds. and troodons can only use their venom after 48%.

[onyx lichen]

Still, 75 damage for something that small is a lot

[vagrant plover]

not really, biting is hardly worth it because of the slow speed.
And as I said, poison only works for 40 seconds and in that time you have to manage to land a hit without dying from the slightest movement

[worthy steeple]

not how it works and troodons biting speed is fine

[warm flax]

I don't think troo needs a bite speed increase. Most of the time, it just bites or pounces and then disengage to avoid being stomped by its prey

maybe add something like dryo's dash ability?

[iron tree]

Maybe something like "lucky feather" where you barely survive

But you lose half of your stamina or something

[warm flax]

like every 30 mins you can survive a heavy blow leave you at 1 hp or something

[iron tree]

Yah

And like half of you current stam

But it can only be triggered when it'd have been a 1 tap

[warm flax]

maybe not triggered by like stego's swing/ deino's lunge or herreras pounce

[iron tree]

Yah

There should be a threshold

[warm flax]

you should put it at general feedback and see ppl like it or not

[iron tree]

True

[worthy steeple]

i mean.. rewarding troodon for playing bad? it’s small and agile enough to be able to dodge all the attacks

why would troodon survive a lethal injury

[warm flax]

cause the desync stuff happening in this game
even bigger playables like omniraptor suffers from it

[worthy steeple]

yeah, let’s fix the desync instead

[warm flax]

doubt they can fix that

[worthy steeple]

and tbf desync helps troodon a lot more than it helps its prey, ability to pounce head and just tp to the side or like pounce air and tp to its prey’s hitbox

[worthy steeple]

don’t, they will fix that at some point

it’s better than adding unnecessary buffs to troodon

[viscid mica]

Me when people focus on doing damage damage instead of venom damage as troodon

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message herrera being bad in the water is fine, it’s not designed to stick around longer than needed

[eternal iris]

It's purely quality of life to go along with a mechanic and part of it's diet they felt the need to add to it

[worthy steeple]

tbf herrera is untouchable most of the time because it’s the only playable that can climb, it is also ridiculously fast on land which makes it even more untouchable.
let it be vulnerable at least in water

[eternal iris]

I get what you are saying, but its not like 5 seconds longer o2 is going to make a Deino (the only thing hunting you underwater) unable to catch you. Herrera are pretty slow when submerged

It just feels weird to dive into water to catch some schooling fish and have your screen starting to fade to black from o2 loss after only a few seconds

[viscid mica]

@eternal iris think Herrera just needs to be slightly faster swimming not as much on the others

[worthy steeple]

herrera doesn’t need to dive in order to get schooling fish, same way ptera doesn’t need to dive, you cal literally catch it on the surface of the water

and no, it doesn’t need to be better swimmer, let it be vulnerable in water

[eternal iris]

I never feel particularly vulnerable when swimming as Herrera

If you know there arent deinos its not like going for a swim is very dangerous

Herreras vulnerability comes from its predictable game plan. They hang out in trees around popular water spots, or near corpses, and jump on you.

[crimson crater]

tbf they are killable on land

[worthy steeple]

they are, but they should not be that fast

literally almost the same speed as omni

[crimson crater]

they should tone its speed down a bit, 44-43

[dusky surge]

agreed

[crimson crater]

its speed being 45kmh never made sense to me. an arboreal dino being the same speed as troodon and dryo (speed proclaimed critters)

[worthy steeple]

43 sounds fair

[slim dragon]

Tbh
36 km/h would be sufficient
But should come along with better stam efficiency when traveling through trees, so it becomes the better way of traveling

[crimson crater]

36 is crazy

[crimson crater]

seems like the sweet spot, not too fast and not extremely slow

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[elfin night]

herra isnt even meant to stay in the water for long

[eternal iris]

Never said for long, just longer than rn

[elfin night]

it doesn't need to regardless

[eternal iris]

Like a difference of 10 secs of o2 being buffed to 15

[elfin night]

and you think that would make much of a difference in playstyle when herra isn't even meant to stick near the water?

it has enough being able to dive and fish

[eternal iris]

Where am I saying it would make a difference in playstyle? It's simply a quality of life change to make diving feel a little better

[viscid mica]

Wdym Herrera is technically semi aquatic

They got fish in diet and can dive

[elfin night]

I know but that was an arbitrary decision from devs and this thing already has everything at its disposal

[viscid mica]

I’m not agreeing with quark take but it do be semi even if it’s “arbitrary” the devs made it in such manor

[elfin night]

If you are making a balance suggestion, it is inherently something to make a difference in how you play it or how it performs

You don't need to dive for more than like 5 seconds to catch a fish and no one is stopping you from getting some air and diving again

herra is a climber, not really a swimmer

[viscid mica]

I do think Herrera should swim faster than fat ah cera ngl

[eternal iris]

No.

A balance change is a suggestion to change number values or mechanics about an animal. A suggestion can be as small or large in scale as someone feels like making it.

[elfin night]

Yeah, but that would not make it a full blown semi aquatic. Right now herra fishing and diving just seems like a sprinkle of cluttering a dinosaur's kit for no real reason.

[elfin night]

so...It is a change in the gameplay.

[viscid mica]

It’s got reason to it you just don’t see it which is fair

[elfin night]

alright, tell me the reason

[thorn mountain]

to use it as a escape

[elfin night]

explain logically why herra and no one else in the terrestrials gets diving and fishing

[elfin night]

It has literally all vertical surfaces and the highest fall damage resistance in the game already. Cluttered kit?

[viscid mica]

1.add to things going in water to give deino abit more as it’s something that has more than just drinking to go near or in water

2. It’s a slow ah Dino because of its tree movement so adds some escape tech to it.

3. Read the actual Dino’s lore it do he a wee water boy

[eternal iris]

Obviously, but you have been commenting like I'm talking about some sort of shift to a more semi-aquatic playstyle, when its not that deep. My suggestion was meant to be small in scale. Not playstyle changing for Herrera

[elfin night]

not really, no. I was commenting that it won't make any meaningful impact and that it is unnecessary when it has other escape tools and schooling fish are so easy to catch

a playstyle change doesn't have to be something fundamental

[viscid mica]

I don’t see any good reason to remove the dive and fish diet adds to its uniqueness

[eternal iris]

Quality of life, thats the point of my suggestion. They gave it a unique diving mechanic that the other terrestrial animals don't have. I want to be able to dive a little longer. It's fun. Diving is fun. Longer dive = more fun

[eternal iris]

Makes it sort of like a Jaguar. Able to play a bit of arboreal, terrestrial, and aquatic

[viscid mica]

Mhm

[vale brook]

just because something can dive doesnt make it semi aquatic, nor having fish on its diet

semi aquatic animals rely on the water to survive, they spent a large chunk of their time within the water, near the water, and interacting with it. sucho likely wont be able to dive, however that does not make it any less semi aquatic. herrera's dive/fish catching ability has always been more about being a unique tool to survive in desperate times and serving as a means of last ditch escape rather than encouraging herrera to spend long amounts of time in the water

[crimson crater]

^ couldn’t have said it better

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message this sounds like a mixpacking dream

[dusky surge]

why would anyone want to nest in something that doesn't interact with them and exists to be food

[worthy steeple]

distraction probably

[hasty coyote]

at that point nest a player, most of them are only useful as a distraction anyway

[worthy steeple]

so true😭😭😭

[stark knoll]

@pure heath Holding E for deinos has never been a thing, you struggle automatically

[pure heath]

Wait what :p

nvm then...

[maiden temple]

@wanton igloo I love that idea instead of the passive AIs. Being able to nest even when there are no players to take eggs sounds really fun for herbis

I don't get many takers for my teno eggs anymore 😅

We'd need some commands for nested AI though, like 4 call making it hide/lay down and 2 call make them follow

They could disperse once sub

Or when 3 called 😍

[wanton igloo]

Thank you!

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message jesus christ

[wanton igloo]

I mean for herbi mix packs sure but with herbi&carni mix packs the ai offspring would run away from the carnis and die quickly.

[stark knoll]

And then feed the carnivores

[safe sand]

@severe root Just a tip that might help with stam management: Stamina regens faster the higher it is, generally. Above about 60% stamina you can trot and regen stamina, but if you dip below 60% you have to change to walking or standing still to regen stamina. So if you stay above 60%, you can alternate trotting and sprinting to maintain high stam and move pretty quickly

[severe root]

thanks for the tip

[viscid mica]

@shadow warren I’m interested in how you decided stego is too tank to other large species when it’s the only large species not including deino

@wanton edge that would be abit of a overtune to dilo a simple reduction of the time stage 3 lasts would do wonders

[wanton edge]

not really. dilo as of now is defined as a pack hunter and should rely upon other members distracting to create opportunities for another to go in. this only emphasizes the use of actual coordination and proper usage of the clones.

[viscid mica]

Certainly but that would nerf it to the point of being unplayable 2 for ever 1 plus having to get what ever it is to stage 3

A heavy reduction in time to force them to remain involved would be better than making them need bites to recharge

[wanton edge]

given that dilos nightvision is comparatively twice as good as many herbivores i don't see this as an issue. dilo is fast enough to play hit and run style combat especially at night where its near impossible to counter attack. this only makes groups of dilos have to constantly be involved whilst still being able to have their venom as an aid in fights.

[viscid mica]

If you reduce time of stage 3 it’ll also force them to stay involved without nerfing it too drastically

[wanton edge]

and that would be a better alternative how? it seems moreso a bandaid fix as the duration isn't the problem. you seem to be only thinking of fights with large tier animals things like omni and pachy are literally floored from 2 bites due to the spammable nature of the hallucinations and the lack of a long cooldown or something to recharge them. bites being the charges fuel keep constant pressure on the target by limiting field of view for the fight duration whilst still keeping the dilos engaged.

[viscid mica]

That’s life, dilo is a lot bigger and stronger than the both of them if pachy wasn’t broken it could hit em and leave range and omni can pounce and far more mobile so skill issue.

Dilo venom isn’t particularly op so to speak the clones are a unique application of poison damage, the problem rn is that it lasts super long and if it’s night it’s basically indefinite which is far too op. It should be like troodon a set number that can be increased by a second or 2 per hit

[wanton edge]

if a dilo knows what its doing u can effectively match a raptors turn by simply running away then crouch-turning. plus dilos dps is insane so two hits (even one if u land a headshot on an omni) to be able to run away for 20 seconds to murder something is incredibly unbalanced.

currently, clones are completely unable to be countered so the issue is not the duration since it also has the fov limiting effect so it SHOULD be long. it defeats the purpose of it having a cloud if it literally can just run away afterward and camp outside of their preys fov range before only deciding to attack once that cloud has left (if u just take away venom duration). bites being fuel incorporates the use of the cloud AND the clones since ur prey has to guess which one to attack allowing dilos to strategize their use of the clones more effectively.

[viscid mica]

I do think it needs a nerf but not the one you recommended

[hasty coyote]

Imo, I'd rather we nerf the damage of clones, than the amount. Clones are what make dilo unique and allow it to get openings on the target, but they shouldnt do all the work. Like if the clones did half damage instead of the damage of a full bite, it would already make dilo much better to fight against.

[flint locust]

Clones need be something else.,,...

[timber tusk]

When it’s herbivore only, I call it a mixed herd, and those are usually okay. Mixed packs with carnivores tend to be way more aggressive and deceptive, luring players into unwinnable battles.

[viscid mica]

The clones are legit just a unique version of tic damage from poison

[wanton igloo]

Mixed herd, I like that. Yeah that’s no bueno. I hate that.

[dusky surge]

mixed herds are a fine thing according to devs

[worthy steeple]

i don’t have any issues with mixherding when there’s 3 times amount of carnivores on the server compared to herbivores

[viscid mica]

mix packing is combo of herbi and canris a herd is just herbivoures of all kind

[worthy steeple]

well thank you the isle wiki lol

[viscid mica]

your welcome norden bot

[worthy steeple]

jesus christ you’re still mad

[viscid mica]

never mad always roasting thou

[worthy steeple]

touch some grass pls

[viscid mica]

just come back from doing that

[worthy steeple]

you can’t roast someone who doesn’t care, it just looks like you’re really trying your best to hurt me, chill out

[viscid mica]

if thats how you take it

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, the balance discussion and people not agreeing with you makes you genuinely hate people, like actual hate just because someone has different opinions

[viscid mica]

my god bro called me isle wiki and is pressed about a clap back

have a gn

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[eternal iris]

Mix packing can also mean a mixing of carni and carni

[viscid mica]

ye i was meaning most common definition

[eternal iris]

It's pretty gross behavior, saw a Diablo mixing with Ceratos earlier. There was a juvie Diablo in the distance calling and it got lured over by the adult Diablo to be killed by the Ceratos

[flint locust]

Thats wild and messed up

[viscid mica]

this is why i grow stegos its my callling

[flint locust]

Herbi and carni mixed is another level of toxic tbh 😭

[eternal iris]

It's even worse when they get one of their buds to hop on Ptera and scout for them. Those sorts of players are just a maelstrom of game ruining behavior, from mix/mega-packing, to bloodthirsty KOS, to body guarding

Been playing playing this game for 8 years now and its been a problem for the entirety of it

[flint locust]

Honestly hope the officials get a rule for that since they are the most populated servers
Honestly think the diablo bait might have happened to me because I was an adult teno who stumbled upon a diablo baby and suddently 6 ceras jump out of the bush ignoring it

[eternal iris]

NA 4?

[flint locust]

No clue

[worthy steeple]

🥹

did you kill at least one?

[flint locust]

I dont think so it was sad honestly LMAO all of them with their no cost charged bites on my ass

[worthy steeple]

ah sad times

[flint locust]

I tried but then I saw all the others but I was already too low to flee fate was sealed

[worthy steeple]

😭

[flint locust]

The day that cerato gets a cost to its charged bite will be wild i will be so happy

[worthy steeple]

yeah it needs a rebalance, too many buffs, too strong for no reason.

tho the game kinda needs a carnivore like that i guess, cera basically took allos role so when allo comes out we won’t need such strong cera in the game anymore

[flint locust]

Someone who sees the light ❤️

[worthy steeple]

and they will probably rework it into scavenger it suppose to be

[flint locust]

I really really hope so! You see it actively hunting than you see it stealing bodies!
I dont think I have ever seen a cera do that

[eternal iris]

🙏 🙏 🙏 PLZ

[worthy steeple]

yeah they don’t even need a body buff tbf, they’re already the strongest even without it

tho cera being that strong makes majority of its player base underestimate the herbivores they’re fighting with, which is funny

[flint locust]

The speed mutations kind of ruined everything too since..
Dilos can catch carnos, omnis can catch dilos, cera can catch teno and pachy
Mfw speed mutation to not get ran down

[worthy steeple]

yeah, it’s annoying, i guess you should try petits, they removed or nerfed all meta mutations

[flint locust]

Cera when it discovers dinosaurs have other attacks than rmb

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[flint locust]

I tried it and loved that they did that but my ping sucks on it

[eternal iris]

Yeah they need to go, mutations having a fairly ridged "Meta" is not fun

[worthy steeple]

oh yeah, the server is located in europe

[flint locust]

Genuinely so nice
Survival mutations should stick in the game, maybe be renamed to adaptations and able to be chosen throughout the course of gameplay (as in do things to unlock)

[eternal iris]

If unofficals had good ping id never even play official servers

[flint locust]

Fr lol

[worthy steeple]

tbf meta mutations exist for mechanic itself, just so community servers can tweak em and do some funny stuff.

i bet the devs know its gamebreaking

there are servers that change mutations like to 10% speed buff instead of 5%

tho it’s cringe and i don’t like that, i guess they want everyone to have fun their own way

which is fair

[flint locust]

Speed demon peak gameplay

[worthy steeple]

ahah

[flint locust]

Do you guys know if the more group member mutation only adds one additional member or

[worthy steeple]

i think it’s % value, like if the group limit is 8 it should be 12 with the mutation

8 x 1.5 = 12

[flint locust]

Mm fun good someone told me it addel only one more person cause the value said 1

Goodnight

[worthy steeple]

it was like that before, but they changed it afaik

goodnight

[timber tusk]

Makes sense.

[timber tusk]

That too lol

[timber tusk]

Yeah, that’s just bullying. Even if the baby Dibble was the most experienced player, deception and ganging up like that is just mean and unfair.

[swift wind]

i wouldnt say it is a problem if an omni can outrun a dilo considering the dilo has it beat in hp and dmg

[flint locust]

speed mutations are kinda crazy

Its the fact that speed mutations are meta if you don't want to get chased down by something that shouldn't even be faster than you

[swift wind]

Things like omni should be faster than dilo imo. They can’t effectively 1v1 a dilo and are slower than it without mutations.

[flint locust]

Dilo is just too fast in general

[swift wind]

Definitely

[flint locust]

The day will come when it has a reasonable speed

[swift wind]

I am not going to hold my breath lol. It seems obvious to me that dilo should not be that fast with its hp and dmg.

[hasty coyote]

thats why omni has the agility advantage. If omni was faster, they would just destroy dilos without a way for them to fight back because of pounce.

However, dilo is def still op atm with its hallucinations, if those get nerfed that should make the matchup 10x better

[swift wind]

Maybe so, but dilos aren’t particularly sluggish, which combined with their better stats on most else means it’s a pretty unfair matchup.

[hasty coyote]

they arent super inagile, but they are still inagile enough for an omni to get around it and juke it. I agree its a bit unfair because hallucination spam, but without it its not bad due to a single pounce dealing half of dilo's hp or even enough to bleed it if it keeps running. Plus omni is small and quiet enough to easily lose a dilo in a bush, dilo does not have that luxury due to stomping louder than a stego lol

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message @compact coral well considering dondi owns the game and theyve said they arent going for purely realism...

[hasty coyote]

there is also a huge difference between realism and scientific accuracy. Is beipi being a little duck accurate? not in the slightest. Does an animal like that break immersion? no it feels realistic.

[swift wind]

Yeah fair enough. I’d still argue that the agility advantage for the omni isn’t big enough to justify the speed advantage for the dilo. In all Fairness my opinion could change as I play more

[hasty coyote]

<@&933486433342222376> look free money

[viscid mica]

@scarlet remnant it already has a cool down lol

[scarlet remnant]

?

[viscid mica]

Stego power swing

All of stegos attacks have cooldowns and roughly 2-3 second openings

[scarlet remnant]

it can be spammed. it is not 2-3 seonds.

[viscid mica]

It can’t if they are spamming they are hacking

I legit just got off stego it can’t be spammed

[scarlet remnant]

what dino do you main ziowar?

[viscid mica]

This is irrelevant as my main ain’t even apart of the roaster yet

Currently it’s PT or troodon

[viscid mica]

Still completely irrelevant to the fact that I was playing stego a total of 3 minutes ago

[scarlet remnant]

u don't know what you're talking about sorry.

[viscid mica]

How many hours do you have in envirma?

[scarlet remnant]

5000

[viscid mica]

Pft that’s believable

And bro said stego has no pause between swings

Have a gn man

[worthy steeple]

it’s less than 1 second cooldown.

[scarlet remnant]

play a dino that attacks stego. and tell me power swing is fair.

[worthy steeple]

you’re thinking about alt attack, the suggestion is about power swing

[viscid mica]

The hitbox is jank but its speed isn’t spamable

[keen plover]

it is

That thing is insanely quick lol

[viscid mica]

It has a opening between every attack

I got off stego it’s over a second between power swing hits

[scarlet remnant]

ziowar you don't know what you're talking about. if you think you can fight a stego go on raptor and abuse that 2-3 second window you believe in

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

what game are you playing?

[viscid mica]

Cheesy you got pressed after insulting me and getting clapped back I ain’t even gonna engage with you

[keen plover]

you can get off like 2-3 hits in a second

[viscid mica]

Not a chance

[worthy steeple]

i never insulted you, and you’re still mad lmao

you’re the one who insulted me

[scarlet remnant]

i think ziowar is rage baiting.

[worthy steeple]

he’s not, that’s how he is

[viscid mica]

God I wish I’d commented 5 minutes early I could clipped this

It’s certainly quick but not that fast

[scarlet remnant]

ziowar. what change do you think should be made to a dino's balance?

[viscid mica]

Wdym

Only thing imo stego needs is its hitboxes tuned cuz they are very jank in range

[worthy steeple]

hitbox is fine, it’s mostly desync

[viscid mica]

Could be

I mean if all it is desync than leave stego it’s not like anything on the current roaster should even be considering stego a option

Wait till bigger Dino’s arrive

[worthy steeple]

omni? dilo? the cera?

[viscid mica]

Nope nope and nope

[worthy steeple]

tho i’m fine with the current stego

[worthy steeple]

yes yes yes lmao

[viscid mica]

Cera is supposed to be a scavenger

Omni maybe but only in mass

And dilo are just op rn and really shouldn’t be considering stego

[worthy steeple]

you should definitely read your own message

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

Bruh

[worthy steeple]

i never said i want it to be weaker lol

[viscid mica]

I’ll get clips next time I’m in my stego if I remember

It’s atleast 1-2 seconds after the attack ends and return to stance

[worthy steeple]

in your stego?😍

[viscid mica]

Engrish well

[worthy steeple]

it’s literally not, if you ever played a stego you would know that

[viscid mica]

I legit got one on na4 rn

[worthy steeple]

sweet

[viscid mica]

I just got off it

And it ain’t that fast

[dusky surge]

imma be honest they should not be going after stego, at least in my personal opinion

but the roster calls for it because otherwise they aren't really doing much

[eternal iris]

Better chance looking for AI and hoping you dont starve then going after a Stego tbh

[worthy steeple]

hm, idk really, maybe only if they make it so dilos clones won’t work on stego and omni won’t be able to pounce it? like in a current roster they for sure can hunt the stegos

idk how much we should nerf those for them to not be able to hunt the stego

[eternal iris]

I mean anything with enough numbers can kill a stego

But in survival (not on Norden) it's not a good idea to even try. 90% chance you die or just lose lots of hunger before eventually giving up

Unless the stego is like... really bad

[dusky surge]

its not a matter of nerfing them

its a matter of stego's unique defense mechanism kinda countering their gameplan

it's an anti-flank animal vs flank-based animals

[worthy steeple]

alright, any stego balance suggestions?👀

[worthy steeple]

tbf killing out of stam stego is pretty easy

[dusky surge]

i mean... no lol, besides reducing the insane cost on powerswing, but that needs to be done when we have actual behemoths like rex, too early and stego will just be foul

[worthy steeple]

hm fair

[glossy elbow]

depends how strong rex will be honestly since it's dps is crazy rn with it not having a cooldown even if it can only do it for a few seconds

[dusky surge]

i think rex and trike should be around the time they start modifying stego to be less easy to exhaust

because those two will present a considerable new challenge to overcome

[worthy steeple]

yeah i guess balancing stego around fighting larger carnivores would be great.

current stego is like if tenos stam was balanced around fighting troodons

few alt bites and you’re out of stam

[dusky surge]

which is fair for the ecosystem it's in, don't get me wrong

[worthy steeple]

in the current one? absolutely

but once allo and rex in the game i expect major balance changes

PLEASE

[eternal iris]

How many Allo do you all think it should ideally take to kill a Stego?

[glossy elbow]

2 or so

[eternal iris]

I'm hoping for 2 - 3

[hasty coyote]

issue is, with the way stego works atm, it does just flat out 1-shot an allo to the head if its under 2.7 tons. Even then, it still dies to first hit knocking down and the second killing, dealing 3.6k damage.

[glossy elbow]

now that I'm thinking about it I wonder if allo will get a "murder sprint" like rex will have.

[eternal iris]

I think it might have something (similar but hopefully not identical) to legacy ambush

[worthy steeple]

i like how “murder sprint” is just the clever way to hide an ambush mechanic that everyone hates xd

but yeah, i think an allo might have similar ability? tho i really dont want it to have it😭

[flint locust]

allo bloodlust meter: insatiable

[eternal iris]

Theres isnt all to much to go on for potential mechanics in the concept art, though "Murder Sprint" does seem like it'll probably be in Allos kit

Theres also a picture of it bodying Cerato

[glossy elbow]

Hopefully rex or anything else that gets it will only be able use it for a little bit. we'll see I guess

[worthy steeple]

yeah, i hope it’s like 3 seconds long ambush with the slightly buffed speed. not what we had in legacy..

[eternal iris]

Crouch battles were sooooooo lame

Visually and mechanically

[worthy steeple]

yes, it was terrible, like honestly the worst mechanic ever

[edgy crow]

And the fact that every Carni had it???

[undone hollow]

outstanding game design with maia being able to run down and stam carnos. top notch. next stegos should get 500% stam and speed buff

[cosmic pelican]

They cant though? Carno is more than 10km/h faster

[undone hollow]

right balanced for a 75% maia to run down a 50% carno . besides its sarcasm when everyone knows maias are OP.

[cosmic pelican]

Literally run in a straight line and the maia cant catch you ;-;

[worthy steeple]

they can’t, not anymore

they used to be able to tho

[undone hollow]

mm i didnt know they changed it

how far into growth can troodon be in sacs?

[dusky surge]

carno didnt, i think

[keen plover]

juvi carnos did!

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon never has to leave

[dusky surge]

what a hyperspecific thing

[undone hollow]

that makes sense. groups of like 10 troodons in sancs on servers i am playing on. kinda of defeats the purpose of sanc for young dinos imo.

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message took me like 1 hour to explain it to you why exactly dilo is op and why it needs nerfs and now you’re writing a feedback about it, you grew a lot my sugar bear

[viscid mica]

I mean I never said it wasn’t strong just that the suggestions at the time wouldn’t fix the problem imo

[worthy steeple]

noo i remember the conversation, took me a while to actually convince you, anyways, glad you see the truth now

[viscid mica]

Upvote it then no balls

[worthy steeple]

🥹

there’s some misinfo, but i will upvote anyway, i generally agree with the feedback

[viscid mica]

@random stump matching cera grow is one trying being fast as or faster than omni and dilo is a whole other thing

[viscid mica]

Well it’s not 100% accurate but it’s how it feels in game

[worthy steeple]

it does, yeah

[viscid mica]

Added a foot note

[undone hollow]

your statement is false when comparing juvi / sub carno and juvi /sub maia. testing was completed in beach combat. maia can indeed out stam and out run a carno. carno must use sprint and maia will overcome the carno due to stam.

[iron tree]

Charge

Forest

And Carno is faster than maia

Even if it's a speed maia

And Carno can outturn maia

[haughty grotto]

@wet rivet deinos deserve to be the oneshot horror killers
It's already super difficult to play them as is

Deinos can't grab anything larger or even the same size as them. They need to be double the weight of the prey or more (or 1.5x prey weight if prey is swimming). If you think about it, something half your size/weight can be easily grabbed and drowned by any species no matter how much the smaller one struggles or screams. Deinos are built to literally do that. Their bite grip strength is unparalleled. Once they latch on they don't let go.

[warm flax]

plus often times the gator is there watching your every steps and following you (if you are around the central river) for over 10+ mins , waiting for the perfect timing to strike

[wet rivet]

I said exactly that… if it catches something smaller thats fine. I agree, that is fairly logical.

My point is, regardless of how bad ass you are, a fully grown 3ton dibble or 5ton Stegg will put up one hell of a fight and there will be a chance of a well placed kick loosening the grip of the croc.

I believe that adding such a chance will actually have a positive impact on the Deino survival cycle by creating more opportunity for them. Most “survival” players avoid waterways because it is a 100% death sentence if there is a deino lurking close by. (I do appreciate that some don’t really care for realistic survival - but it is afterall what survival games are all about)

If there is a chance of survival to the non aquatic animals, they will be more willing to risk the last 3 - 4 hours of their time, creating more hunting opportunities to the Deino community.

It will also create some mindfulness in the Deino player - do I go for the adult because I need more food at the risk of failing my hunt, or do I go for the smaller “sub-adult” and have a higher chance of success.

It will also create more engaging gameplay for Deino players. A carnivore attacking prey on land is a strategic match and making calculated decisions in order to be successful.

In my honest opinion, surviving as a Deino is only that hard because of a the unrealistic cannibal behavior of the Deino community. Yes Deinos were, and crocs are cannibalistic - but do not kill their own on sight.

By adding a say 25% chance, that would mean that you at least have a 1 in 4 chance of surviving the ordeal, making it more engaging for both predator and prey.

[slim dragon]

If only it wasn't RNG based

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message lets nerf the bleeders bleed and give the slightest bleed increase to claw attack which is useless against anything bigger than omni.

this is ridiculous, because you don’t fight with the claw attack, you fight with the kicks.

i swear to god this community upvotes everything that “makes sense”, just think about the game balance first, not how cool it sounds like

last thing teno needs right now is bleed nerf lol. keep in mind it’s damage got massively nerfed few patches ago and it’s already a lot worse than it used to be

[crimson crater]

dmg got reduced by 25 not massive at all

[eternal iris]

Different attacks having different utility is what makes combat interesting. Spamming of an overtuned move might keep a character meta, but it's also pretty boring to play with and against

I mean, Teno kick really does do basically everything you could possibly ask for in an attack. It has great damage, good bleed, it stuns, it combos, it comes out fast, it's on the opposite side of the body so it keeps the head out of reach, and it can be used while sprinting so you aren't left vulnerable if you whiff.

[worthy steeple]

it is lol, it’s a lot, tail slam reduced by 50 lmao

[cosmic pelican]

Only real ones remember the time when tail slam did 350dmg

[worthy steeple]

because it’s the only attack that you use fighting something cera or carno size, you never use alt attack, because it’s not good against bigger dinos.

its basically just straight up kick nerf for no reason

[worthy steeple]

👹
yeah 350 is a lot, 150 if fine tho

100 is just.. mehh

[worthy steeple]

last thing teno needs right now is more nerfs, especially bleed related, it’s bleeder lmao, let it use its bleed

[worthy steeple]

tho the devs will never listen to feedback like that, just because it doesn’t make any sense

[crimson crater]

yea but we’re talking about the kick here

[edgy crow]

Let the brawler herbivore do its thing, it has no other way of countering predators 😭 🙏

[worthy steeple]

yeah kick already got damage nerf, why would you want bleed nerf as well💀

[cosmic pelican]

[steep otter]

Bro, leave teno has it is

[crimson crater]

to give the front alt more purpose, its obsolete compared to the kick

[steep otter]

Teno already got nerfed enought

[worthy steeple]

you never use kick instead of alt and alt instead of kick, different purposes.

[crimson crater]

it hasn’t

[crimson crater]

the kick is quite literally better in every aspect which it shouldn’t be

[edgy crow]

Except for the fact it hits behind you???

[worthy steeple]

jesus christ flows, you want the teno to be second pachy?

[crimson crater]

lmao

[steep otter]

Meanwhile cerato exists

[crimson crater]

nerfing the bleed won’t make it unviable

[worthy steeple]

teno got ridiculous nerfs

[cosmic pelican]

My reaction to this conversation:

[crimson crater]

“teno is weak”

[worthy steeple]

never said that

[crimson crater]

it has gotten multiple buffs to compensate that small 25dmg decrease

[edgy crow]

The Teno clearly uses its alt lmb here?

[worthy steeple]

it’s usually always better to kick the second time instead of alt attacking

[worthy steeple]

what buffs?

[cosmic pelican]

No time, I barely got the alt in before the cera escaped

[worthy steeple]

fair

[cosmic pelican]

The kick was on cooldown

[edgy crow]

Wait that's YOU?

[cosmic pelican]

Yessir

[worthy steeple]

and it’s one of the most badass tail slams i’ve ever seen

[edgy crow]

ma'am

[crimson crater]

kick hitbox got increased and missing a tailslam isn’t as punishing anymore, you got locked out before

[steep otter]

I remember when tail slam used to do 200... good times

[edgy crow]

gives me motivation to not give up on my 40-50% something Teno

[crimson crater]

it wasn’t even that good

[worthy steeple]

the lock is still there tho, the kick is fine, the hitbox got changed, but it’s barely noticeable

and how that should compensate 25 kick nerf and 50 tail slam nerf?

[worthy steeple]

hell yeah

[cosmic pelican]

My bad

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/shower-soap-friendly-reminder-you-stink-gif-15157732979346099491

[edgy crow]

Although for some wacky reason I've decided to give it meniscus + hydrodynamic

[crimson crater]

it isn’t, you could get in body shots if the teno missed, can’t really do that anymore. the hitbox is noticeably bigger

[worthy steeple]

hydrodynamic teno is the best teno

[worthy steeple]

it’s literally not, even i didn’t notice anything

[edgy crow]

trying to live out the semi aquatic teno life that the devs refuse to unleash upon us

[crimson crater]

25 dmg nerf is nothing, you’re acting like they butchered teno

[worthy steeple]

literally no one did except you, that says a lot

[crimson crater]

who is “everyone”

[worthy steeple]

yes? 25 damage nerf on top of 15% damage reduction everyone uses makes it deal like A LOT less.
and don’t forget ably ridiculous 50 damage nerf for the tail slam

[worthy steeple]

?

[crimson crater]

the kick dmg was way too much before, that 25 dmg nerf just made it less overtuned

[worthy steeple]

real!

[worthy steeple]

even tho i don’t mind the kick nerf, funny how you ignore the tail slam

[crimson crater]

because this discussion is about nerfing the bleed on the kick, what does the dmg on the tail slam have to do with anything

[worthy steeple]

and funny how you want even more nerf for the playable that at this point almost nobody plays as, because it’s so complicated and also got a lot of nerfs

[steep otter]

Why the need to nerf the bleed?

[edgy crow]

It's to explain why Teno doesn't need a nerf on the kick

[worthy steeple]

because it’s another nerf and on top of that it’s a bleed nerf for the bleeder

[crimson crater]

the feedback suggested that they buff the bleed on its claw attack for compensation. the kick can’t have everything

[worthy steeple]

slightly? and what’s the point of that lol?

[edgy crow]

But it doesn't, it hits behind you

[worthy steeple]

meanwhile ceratos charge bite:

like you literally main the dino that does w+m2

[crimson crater]

so there’s this neat thing called A and D keys which allows you to turn around and kick!

[edgy crow]

Which takes time

[worthy steeple]

it’s still hits behind you

[steep otter]

(Deals 500 damage with 0 stam Cost)

[crimson crater]

0.3 seconds for a 360 spin lol

[worthy steeple]

still behind you, not in front of you

[edgy crow]

It takes more effort to turn around and kick something then to just alt + lmb, kick needs to be stronger to compensate for it