balance-feedback-discussion

[leaden remnant]

its really just 9.5/10

youre in danger for about 4 mins per hour

[opaque vine]

<@&401466542140817419> consider muting this guy

[leaden remnant]

the rest are in danger for 60 mins per hour

[leaden remnant]

bro

what

[cosmic pelican]

What😭😭😭
Ive known you for so long and you betray me like this

[green heart]

[opaque vine]

That could be said about anything. I could be a raptor grab food and then go back into my hole in the middle of the jungle where no one can find me

[leaden remnant]

not really tho

[compact bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/for-what-special-agent-cameron-vo-fbi-international-for-what-reason-why-gif-26205624

[leaden remnant]

you can be found

[opaque vine]

No

[leaden remnant]

yes 😭

[opaque vine]

What are the possibilities

Exactly

[leaden remnant]

5%

[opaque vine]

Less

[leaden remnant]

herrera gets 0.1% 😭

[opaque vine]

True but at the end of the day both are safe 9/10

[leaden remnant]

eh

[opaque vine]

More like 10 for Herrera but u get the point lol

[leaden remnant]

i mean yes but

idk man ive died so many times while afk growing in the middle of absolutely nowhere that i just know it aint like that

[copper ridge]

Me: herra is inherently a safer dino because it can retreat to any surface where it cannot be pursued. Not invincible, just safer than say, an omni.

This guy: I CANT BELIEVE YOU'RE SAYING HERRA IS INVINCIBLE

[opaque vine]

Unless a stego magically found u as a raptor u can tank a couple of huts and then run

[opaque vine]

Real

[leaden remnant]

i mean yes but

by the time you get up youre dead

[copper ridge]

The "this guy" is you

[leaden remnant]

it takes nothing to kill a raptor

[opaque vine]

All I’m saying is that it can’t always successfully retreat like ur implying

[opaque vine]

I’m aware of that

[leaden remnant]

never implied that

[copper ridge]

Then why are you arguing? If we're both in agreement I don't understand

[leaden remnant]

merely stating that the chances of the herrera making it safely to the tree are inmense

[opaque vine]

Depends. And you can always use your ears to hear their footsteps in the first place, preventing the situation from even occurring

[opaque vine]

Well you want to nerf Herrera so there’s that

[leaden remnant]

i was talking about afk growing

away from keyboard sir

[opaque vine]

Your fault lol?

[leaden remnant]

i agree

but you said youre basically never gonna be found in the middle of the jungle

[copper ridge]

So you've decided to insult me and irritate me because we... don't share an opinion about a video game dinosaur you like? Very cool of you man super mature

[leaden remnant]

well he didnt insult you

[copper ridge]

He did tbh

[opaque vine]

You might aswell try the lottery at that point I mean, the chances are non-existent

[leaden remnant]

are you sure about that

died many times to smth lik ethat

either afk growing (primarily) or working while growing

[opaque vine]

May I remind you that you called me delusional and a troll

[leaden remnant]

i hear a cera coming, i tab back in but im alread ydead

[leaden remnant]

with all due respect and with absolutely no intention of being rude, based on what you've said, he's most likely not wrong

[opaque vine]

Yes I’m sure about that. I’ve got 10K hours of footage of me being in a bush if you want to review it all

[leaden remnant]

pause

how many hours do you have in this game

[opaque vine]

2K

1.8

[leaden remnant]

how do you have 10k hours then-

my ass has been killed at least 6 times in the middle of absolutely nowhere

[opaque vine]

Hyperbolical statement bro😭

[opaque vine]

How many hours do you have on the game

[leaden remnant]

places like this (above ne plains)

[copper ridge]

"delusional" is just a way of saying you're ignoring facts, and "troll" is someone on the internet who argues to make people mad. Neither of these are inherently negative they're just adjectives/nouns. I do apologise if you got offended but that wasn't my intention.

You called me stupid and mocked me. We are not the same.

[leaden remnant]

1.3k

[opaque vine]

I never mocked u

[opaque vine]

1.3K and it only happened like 6 times

[leaden remnant]

yeah cause i afk grow in the southern beach

[opaque vine]

So the chances are basically non existent then lol

[leaden remnant]

i rarely go in the jungle

and when i do, i get caught about 10% of the times

[copper ridge]

You did, even if it wasn't intentional you did

[opaque vine]

My bad

[leaden remnant]

once again with all due respect, and with absolutely no intention of being rude or anything of the sort, based on the super intellectual things you have stated, i believe he's got a point when he says he's been mocked

[opaque vine]

The “I’m intellectually superior” thing I said? That was obv me joking lol

[leaden remnant]

no sir

[opaque vine]

What then

[leaden remnant]

the amount of times you seem to have ignored the most obvious and logical things only to counter those statements with things that make absolutely no sense

allow me to give you an example

[opaque vine]

What’s “logical” to you is subjective

[leaden remnant]

as we all know, based on logic, a herrera being concealed on a tree, having to get down for about 4 minutes per hour, being exposed to dangers, is not the same as being exposed to the same dangers, with more resistance to them, yes, but still being exposed for the entire hour

a pack of dilos cnat reach up a tree

[leaden remnant]

my good sir, certain things are subjective, certain things are not

[golden coral]

Herrera, deino, and ptera are all very safe critters, ptera and herrera being a slight touch safer only due to deino in theory being "hunted" by beipis when very tiny

[leaden remnant]

deinos arent that safe

most deinos have turned cannibals

[golden coral]

Aside from beipi, when you're very tiny, you only fear your own

[leaden remnant]

a natural predator, yes

[golden coral]

And fearing your own applies to ptera and herrera too

[leaden remnant]

herrera doesn't have those besides the ones that pick cannibal mutation

[golden coral]

Anywhere you can go as herrera or ptera, obviously another one of your kind can too

[golden coral]

I'm not talking about if they want to hunt you, purely that they can

[leaden remnant]

you'll be able to see him tho

[opaque vine]

What would the herrera be doing in the trees?

[leaden remnant]

surviving

herrera has no reason to be on the ground unless for feeding purposes

[golden coral]

Want is irrelevant, you can not avoid your own kind as ptera or herrera either, but you can avoid everything else. Could argue that ptera and herrera can get to each other, so maybe they're about as safe as deino.

[leaden remnant]

a herrera cant die to a ptera

straight up cant

[copper ridge]

Any dinosaur (with a deino exception) that does not have to spend time "on ground" is inherently safer than something land-locked like an omni. That's not subjective that's fact

[golden coral]

Deino worries about beipi when small, herrera and ptera worries about their own and each other, to variying degrees

[golden coral]

Maybe not to one, but multiple

[leaden remnant]

deinos are really unsafe till they reach 6 tons

[golden coral]

You're smarter than this, you know I'm talking about being in a spot no one can reach you

[opaque vine]

It has though, it could be trying to ambush something, finding a better spot, filling up on diets or migrating

[leaden remnant]

im aware, yes, but you say some things that aren't that true if you get what i mean

[golden coral]

Ptera and herrera can get to their own and respectively each others spots

[copper ridge]

Yes but the time herrera spends on the ground is much lower than that of almost any other creature. Percentage-wise, a herra is in danger for far less time than any other land dino in it's weight class

[leaden remnant]

you dont ambush from the ground as a herrera

youre not a carno

[opaque vine]

That’s true but omnis can easily survive aswell

[golden coral]

Not quite? Where am I wrong then? Deino are safe from everything else but their own. Herrera and ptera are safe from everything but their own and each other.

[leaden remnant]

doenst make em safer than herreras 😭

[copper ridge]

That may be true! But an omni is in constant danger, whereas a herrera can alleviate that danger by resting in a tree/on a cliff edge

[golden coral]

Hence why I acknowledge that deinos do fear beipi when small, just like how herrera and ptera can hunt each other, to varying degrees

[opaque vine]

Never said that. An opponent isn’t always directly under your tree, you use the ground to travel and then climb up the tree to ambush from

[golden coral]

So overall, I'd say ptera, herrera and deino are about as safe, and capable of being in a spot where nothing but their own, or one specific other critter, can even really get them, much less fight them very well

[leaden remnant]

you're not wrong but also not correct, deinos are always unsafe due to the fact that most of the rivers and places are not viable places, they're in grave danger due to the fact that you cant escape a bigger deino unless you break his ankles underwater due to the low visibility underwater, however herreras and pteras have concealment, easy movement and more to avoid their kind

im not sure if you've recently played deino, but the same deinos that refused to kill their own have finally understood that they must kill their own

[golden coral]

Right, but I'm not arguing that they're safe from being hunted, I'm arguing they're safe from everything else on the roster, like ptera and herrera

[copper ridge]

Also I accept your apology. However with all the love in the world I do recommend you do some research on the art of debate. Being able to clarify yourself under scrutiny and acknowledge the other side of the argument are invaluable tools. Usually used for more important things than arguing over a dino game, but my point still stands.

[leaden remnant]

yeah of course, im merely saying that deinos are really unsafe

[opaque vine]

Omnis are fast enough to run away from 99% of the playables and they can use rocks, water or the A and D keys to escape dilos or carnos. How exactly are omnis struggling

[golden coral]

A ptera or herrera isn't safe from being hunted in a tree

Just that very few things can hunt them, thus they're very close to being safe

[leaden remnant]

way more than herreras or pteras

[copper ridge]

I get the sense you dont play omni at all

[golden coral]

Eh, don't know how popular canni ptera/herrera is, so can't say much there

I'm purely talking the actual "how it works", not if people play that way or not

[leaden remnant]

canni herrera is popular, canni ptera is somewhat unpopular, canni deino is a must

[leaden remnant]

yeah i get this, that's why i say you're not wrong but not right at the same time

[opaque vine]

I’ve been debating for 4 years and been studying it online

[copper ridge]

You think you'd be better at it considering that then

[leaden remnant]

cause you're not wrong with what you say, but it isn't exactly the way you say it

[opaque vine]

This is not my finest moment I know😭

[leaden remnant]

herreras and pteras are not fully safe, i agree

[golden coral]

Fair, depends on what specific thing we're looking at then

[leaden remnant]

completely true

however, the chances of being killed by your own are way less than a deino

[golden coral]

Well yes, that should hopefully be the case at least!

[leaden remnant]

a deino is almost a guaranteed death if you see a bigger deino

[golden coral]

Isn't part of that the issue that juvie deinos can't realiably escape anymore?

[leaden remnant]

a herrera is probably about 15%

[leaden remnant]

yea

deino food is scarce as hell, so the same people who say they'd never canni are now killing machines

pretty sure they got the message lol

[golden coral]

Well, that much is good, but juvies should be able to run away on land or something, you know. Not just "oh, I got seen, time to die"

[leaden remnant]

i agree with both things you said

[golden coral]

Then again, most juvies tend to fall into that category

[opaque vine]

@copper ridge after re-reading your arguments and your Herrera nerf suggestion, I really don’t think it’s necessary. They’re pretty much confined to the trees and don’t have as much freedom as other playables. The only nerf Herrera needs is a speed nerf, 45 kmh is a bit too fast

[golden coral]

flashback to 10+ groups of deinos in the rivers of spiro Back when cannibalism was seen as the worst thing ever, glad that changed

[opaque vine]

Herrera is a pretty popular choice for people who canni

[leaden remnant]

LMAO

it's the same thing now tbh

[golden coral]

@copper ridgeOh yeah, might as well comment on your feedback. I disagree, because quite frankly, the climbing mechanic is really fun, and letting herrera climb almost everything (I think it should be able to climb into human bases too honestly, let it hunt humans like the other smalls), is a big part of why it's a good and fun playable, at least to me.

[copper ridge]

That's so much better, very well articulated, addresses the points in a clear and succinct way and explains why you disagree.

[leaden remnant]

groups of 8 deinos (basically all the deinos in the server) trying to protect themselves

flashbacks of ne plains in november when it looked like a damn deino sanctuary

15 deinos all chilling till two chinese appeared

[golden coral]

So I don't think removing a decent part of herreras ability to move around is going to make it more fun neccesarily, and herrera is at the end of the day not as powerful or worrysome as deino is, so it doesn't quite need that harsh limitation

But, I will say this. If they changed herrera from ambush to pursuit, I'd be fine with that change. More of actually chasing things from tree to tree, rather than ambush from one. But it would require a much more mobile and speedy herrera arboreal wise, than current one.

[copper ridge]

I knooooow. I was talking to a friend the other day and I said "herrera is super fun to play but not very fun to play against", which is why I didn't want to take it's climbing ability away all-together, that would be stripping it's identity. My thought process was more around that if a herra is going to be able to one-shot with no counterplay, then they should be punished for messing it up and not immediately allowed to retreat (in all cases/environments).

[leaden remnant]

i wish they did it

[golden coral]

Agreed, but alas. Mods will fix it! xD

[leaden remnant]

real

herreras can get REALLY annoying sometimes

i dont care about deinos, im terrified of herreras

theres clips of me baiting deinos outside the water just so i can beat the crap outta them, but herreras? boi

extended jump hitbox, nope

[copper ridge]

And tbf I do also have problems with the other one-shot kill methods, like omnis pounce to pin and deino's lunge. I fully believe there should be some sort of minigame or something to help curb some of that damage, it's not like I just hate herra. I don't hate herra! I like playing it it's super fun.

[opaque vine]

In my opinion, herreras are very easy to counter. I just avoid Herrera popular spots and i always look up before eating, haven’t died to one in a long time

[leaden remnant]

few times ive looked up, scanned as hard as i could and still died to one

i never eat below trees cause they are invisible in the trees

i only eat below palm trees or in plains

herrera ptsd

[opaque vine]

Same, I’ve noticed that omnis pounce hitbox is kinda big, i hope it gets looked at

[leaden remnant]

but tbf you can claim skill issue in this scenario

[copper ridge]

And that's totally fair! It's alright to disagree with me on the nerf, it's admittedly not my best solution but I'm so tired of getting killed when I'm trying to walk through the tunnels to get to highlands lmao

[golden coral]

Removing the climbing entirely would not fly, no, even if we wanted it since the devs have made herrera the way it is. Personally I don't think herrera is powerful enough to warrant this, it can't really kill too big things unless it's a very coordinated pack (or you'll land on each other when you try to drop on something). And there is counterplay, same as deino. Look at environment, and be wary, don't stand too near things. But for example, hunting in the "canyon" up at highlands is cool, but there's only mountain there, so you'd lose out on that if you changed it the way you want. Maybe a better option would be to speed up climbing/jumping and all that, plus better stamina if needed, and then slow herrera down on ground properly. Could also adjust the strike range, so it can't jump as far out, if neccesary, to limit the reach of it.

[opaque vine]

Good point, but in most cases there will be more than one body since juvis often come by to eat. Big red flag

[leaden remnant]

yus

[golden coral]

I think a lot of us agree there. I'd like to see far better interactions when it comes to lunge, pin, and so on. But they're not as good to compare with, because in those cases you're "stuck", just sitting there watching. If a herrera hits you, it's more like well, any powerful normal attack, even if it comes from above.

[copper ridge]

Hmm, thats a good point actually. Allow them to set up an ambush but make them slow enough that if they miss/get baited people can chase them down

Tbh I don't know why herra is so fast on the ground to begin with considering it's not a ground hunter like omni (yet is only a couple km slower)

But buffing it's jumping stamina by decreasing the cost, while dropping its speed would actually be a very good compromise, allows herras to keep their main attack and identity, but also help ground creatures get revenge if they're not one-shotted by them

[golden coral]

Could be because it wasn't neccesarily fast in arboreal movement, at least not back then. So you'd still travel a lot on ground.

Hence you'd need speed, you're after all, very fragile. And stopping to get up into a tree every few meters does sound like it'd be not that fun to deal with

[copper ridge]

Yeah I guess it's just a case of tweaking it, like what they're doing w carno rn

[golden coral]

But if you can stay in trees more reliably, and travel via them and cliffs, then you could afford to not be as good on plain ground

Do wish they'd also make it better in the water, last I were one, you drown far too quickly

[copper ridge]

You can take the O2 mutation but yeah it doesn't really give a lot of extra time

Again, it's the thing that I don't blame people for playing herrera, it's super fun, I just wish it was a bit better tuned. Like as much as I hate dibble I can't blame people for playing it considering they have no competition besides eachother.

Same as stego before dibble came out

[leaden remnant]

give it a super super low jump cost (2%), more range, reduce the jump damage by a ton, reduce the bleeding by a ton, make it a better and faster climber

[golden coral]

If they combined the o2, the wader, and the visibility one into one mutation, I'd take it, but on their own, they do not seem worth it at all

Or not enough worth for just being a little bit better when I want to go fish

[copper ridge]

Yeah you're essentially wasting all 2 slots for a niche qol improvement instead of getting survival mutations it's rough

[golden coral]

Most things require tuning, I don't think there's a single playable that is where it should be at

[copper ridge]

Aint that the truth

[opaque vine]

Bruh, that’s not necessary

[golden coral]

Speed up the jumping/falling speed, and we're good to go. Decrease the strike range/reach as well.

Speedy herrera, but far less powerful, chasing things through the forest

[copper ridge]

And tbh I don't envy the devs, having to balance pvp, survival and fun, I'm sure it sucks, but it's the game they made

[leaden remnant]

would make it an endurance hunter instead of an annoying as hell tree deino

[opaque vine]

Decreasing its range would affect its performance in trees

[leaden remnant]

we dont need tree deinos 😭

[golden coral]

True, maybe you could have different ranges for strike vs just jump?

[opaque vine]

As much as I would love that it’s simply not possible. Your opponent can just run away from the trees

[golden coral]

Trade bleed for a body fracture on impact

[opaque vine]

Yea that’s what I just thought about XD

[leaden remnant]

probably

[leaden remnant]

mayhaps youre right

[opaque vine]

The only thing you could do with it that I can think of is making it more than an ambusher. It heavily benefits from it but it can’t one shot you, instead it has the capabilities to now finish you off on the ground

[leaden remnant]

that's a good thing imo

[opaque vine]

Yeah it would make it more engaging for the Herrera and it’s opponent

Instead of it being just a “press RMB + space to win” type

[leaden remnant]

yos

[obtuse ocean]

How ? Its fighting small tiers, they are not solo normally. So you prob will never get to eat anything

[opaque vine]

Good point, considering that herreras are solitary hunters it wouldn’t be possible

Or atleast it would make things quite complicated

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, and atleast when i tried it. I felt the food drain was quite high on herrera.

[opaque vine]

Yea food drains needs to be slowed down universally. The game is a little too fast paced now that we’re stuck with this stamina system and randomized spawns

You can’t even relax after a successful hunt lol

[cosmic pelican]

Give taco ai organs plz

Would fix every problem the game has, trust

[obtuse ocean]

Yea maybe, but then you might get the problem people make big herds/packs. And people spread out really thin on the map

[dusky surge]

it was

[rancid sluice]

@Minmilophodon this dude suggests remaking all the dinosaurs, instead of changing Carno) in the league of legends, interesting characters like Aurelion sol are remade for a new youth style of play, instead of slowing down the game itself, where everyone has 100 jumps and removing death from the 1st blow in 0.0001 seconds. No one is going to do this.

@grave wind

@solar lodge You don't have to do anything else with the steg, you've already done enough incredible mechanics for him.
Infinite stamina (mutation),
endless tail attacks even with 0 stamina.
A charged punch that can reach the head, although visually it barely scratches its side, which also flies incredibly fast.
Do not forget about the doublet. After the charged blow, the stego immediately makes the 2nd ordinary hit attack

@karmic lynx my man nappn here! and he hits the nail on the head! I never doubted you)

[golden coral]

Wouldn't it make sense, if carno is in a good spot now and works like it should, for those that struggle to be adjusted to do better? Instead of reverting carno back to being less functional and good? The entire issue has always been that carno was never good at its job, now if it is, then it makes more sense to adjust the ones struggling with it to be somewhat better off, while keeping carno good.

[rancid sluice]

Will the developers do this? or at least strive for it? So this is NATURALLY the right decision .But you're right, I wrote it in such a way that, like, do you want to do reasonable things? I didn't realize it. The question is with the developers, I use a translator, I'm sorry

I just don't believe they will do it, it's more difficult.

[golden coral]

None of those things are "incredible", or even mechanics really. The fact that stego more or less needs the mutation speaks pretty badly for stego itself. And the mutation itself is kind of meta (and can be taken by others too, not stego specific), just like speed and damage mutations (and probably should be removed). Endless tail attacks mean rather little with how bad those attacks are (and it's just bringing it up to normal status of being able to alt attack out of stam, like everyone else, so nothing stego specific). The swing has a cooldown, making the attack clunky, so while the speed of the attack itself is fine (but hardly out of the ordinary in speed from what I can see), the cooldown completely negates that. Also yes, stego can "combo", which well, any playable can do, far as I know. Most playables can attack repeatedly, be it the same attack or two different ones, so again nothing specific to stego, or "incredible", considering it's rather normal.

[golden coral]

Why wouldn't they, if they have finally figured out how to make carno work and fulfill its intended niche and purpose?

Carno has had an identity issue for far too long, and if the current changes makes it work like intended, I think it'd be more reasonable to adjust the others that need it, instead of continuing to try and sort carno out

Otherwise we might never get to a point where carno actually works as intended

[golden coral]

It might be, yes, but so far we've seen that most carno changes has not fixed the issue carno has had

So it'd be a bit strange to go back on that, if current carno is finally fixed

[rancid sluice]

Okayyou wrote a lot of nonsense, I barely understood. What you wrote .I'll try to set your mind straight.

after I try to read your next messages. time\

https://youtu.be/UGvmVmbq41s?t=543 Or maybe I just going to show you this moment at 9:03 instead of a thousand words????

XD

[golden coral]

Reverting things are rarely a good idea, and while cerato has current issues with how effective bile is, the change is for the better, letting it scale properly. Same with carno, it might require tuning, but old carno clearly didn't work out very well. I can agree on the grapple changes however, mostly cause it would feel better if it was a finisher and not just a "main attack" in a sense. And I think dilo clones currently have other issues, like teleporting on to targets, and they may or may not currently be able to be hit before they bite at that. (not sure on that one, but they did do some kind of change not too long ago that seems to have to do with that).

[golden coral]

What's the point you're trying to make there?

[dusky surge]

a stego struggling to defend itself from bogged ceras really proves how strong it is LMAO

[golden coral]

A stego having no proper way to fight so it has to hope the terrain can save it?

[dusky surge]

clearly stego must be amazing if it has to hide in mud and it STILL sucks at dealing with cerato, a creature less than 1/4 its size

[rancid sluice]

I'm going to start swearing right now and get out of the chat, there's not even any point in communicating with you

[golden coral]

Literally nothing I wrote was nonsense, or anything needing to be "set straight", I know what I'm writing, maybe you need to translate it better. You call a bunch of things that are not stego specific "incredible mechanics" when they're not related to stego. Most of what you wrote, applies to any carni (and the mutation to any herbi) and so on, so it's nothing given to stego. While giving it strafing would be something it'd share with the ceratopsids, but not many others. So it'd be more "unique", kind of like how troodon now have dilo fog and auditory hallucinations.

[rancid sluice]

then make him just stretch his tail like a sword, and if you approach the tail, he will cause damage to you. and add holes so that only the tail sticks out from there LMAO XDXDXDXD ФРФРФРАЗАХАХАХАХХАХАХАХАХА

[dusky surge]

what

[golden coral]

Because of what? I asked what the point was? You showed me a stego struggling to fight off 3 ceratos and having to sit in mud to fight? That does not look like a stego that is doing well or being capable.

[rancid sluice]

OKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEYOKEY, I'LL ANSWER THAT

[golden coral]

Sounds more like kentro there. I imagine it's spikes might have "thorns" damage, it would make sense and be interesting/set it apart from stego a bit.

[rancid sluice]

what?? WHAT IS THAT???? YOU WROTE THAT THEY ARE POOR AND CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES. ALTHOUGH HE WAVES HIS TAIL WITHOUT STOPPING. IT'S NOT NORMAL, I SAY. DO TO THIS DEFENSELESS CHILD, THIS IS THE MECHANICS THAT I SAID (IT'S HYPERTROPHIED, IT'S A JOKE)

[dusky surge]

i'm not entirely sure what is happening

[golden coral]

Every critter can attack infinitely with alt attacks?

[dusky surge]

cerato has infinite alt-bite with no stam

and infinite charge bite

[golden coral]

Everything does, it's not a stego specific thing

[rancid sluice]

SORRY GUYS, English is too poor.to make you understand me, I can't find any other explanation.

[dusky surge]

hell, cerato's kit is entirely unchanged besides not sprinting

[rancid sluice]

he couldn't do that before, he had to use his stamina wisely, why it was broken, I do not know

[golden coral]

You show a video of a stego struggling to defend itself, trying to point to what? That it can jab out of stam, like teno can claw swipe, cera can charge bite, every other alt attack works the same?

[rancid sluice]

An incredible excuse

[golden coral]

Because otherwise you're dead without stamina, which was not desireable. If anything, it was broken that stego had no proper alt, especially with how bad the attacks are and how stamina reliant stego is. Especially with the new stam thresholds to take into account.

[golden coral]

It's not an excuse, it's pointing out that stego works like any other critter now, at least in that aspect

[rancid sluice]

Well, if you play badly, you'll die, but what am I talking about, we're not playing a hardcore game where we measure our skills, give him endless punches, why does he need to recharge a loaded punch at all?????????????Take it away

[dusky surge]

so make a fullgrown deino unable to bite at no stam by the same logic

[golden coral]

Sure, if you play badly, you die. That happens even if you can attack "endlessly". Also "recharge", why does omni not need to recharge the pounce, or cerato the charged bite, or deino the lunge, or herrera the jump attack. And so on.

But without any ability to attack out of stam, you're basically just dead, and that was, last I heard, seen as a bit undesireable. The whole "counting attacks" thing.

[golden coral]

I mean, I guess every playable should be unable to attack when out of stam then.

[rancid sluice]

take away the waste of stamina? It looks broken

[dusky surge]

what

[keen plover]

(I'd be so happy if this happened)

[rancid sluice]

I can kill a cheater, then why ban cheaters? I don't really know.What kind of logic do you have

[keen plover]

[dusky surge]

i mean, defenselessness ain't fun

[rancid sluice]

BUT THIS IS A BROKEN MECHANICS, JUST LIKE CARNOT'S ENDLESS RAMS, IT'S NOT NORMAL OH MY GOD

[keen plover]

With their alt attack speed, I'd rather it not exist! Would love it if the attack rates were slower when out of stam at least lol

[golden coral]

I figured the entire point of those is that they kind of you know, cheat to get stats and stuff they shouldn't have, thus making you unable to fight back.

[golden coral]

No, bad!

[golden coral]

Everything else can do it, how is it broken then?

Stego jab is it's "alt", you need to compare it to any other alt/similar

[rancid sluice]

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

[keen plover]

lol

[dusky surge]

He clown reacted himself

A bold and new move

[slim dragon]

Most sane person in islecord

[golden coral]

We're all more or less insane here so fair enough

[dusky surge]

It's still so wild to me that stego, being in a really poor spot atm, still has people wanting it to be further dropkicked into utter obscurity

It's getting outpowerscaled like crazy with all the buffs and newer, stronger creatures

[golden coral]

@rancid sluiceAlso, as your own video showed, you killed the stego, so what exactly is the issue? Oh, it gets even better, you killed multiple, and yet somehow you're not satisfied. No, at this point, you want a free kill, that's the only conclusion to make here. The only thing your video proves, is how utterly bad stego is, so congratulations for proving my point.

[dusky surge]

Deino, cera, omni, dilo, troodon have all gotten buffs that directly buff their ability to kill stego

Stego got 6 nerfs in hordetest to a new mechanic that made said mechanic so bad that you're better off not using it 9 times out of 10

This isn't even mentioning diablo

[keen plover]

Stego main cope!

😠

[dusky surge]

And then who do we have next for the carni roster? Oh right, Rex and allo, two of stego’s biggest threats who are actively encouraged to hunt stego

[keen plover]

Idk why troodon can even hunt stego lol

[golden coral]

Stam drain on latch mostly, free alt might help, not sure. But new buffs might still make them able to, due to terrible attacks on stego side.

[golden coral]

Because stego just isn't supposed to be good, it's meant to be free food it seems.

[keen plover]

They can drain a lot out of you, yeah. I'm just surprised troodon doesn't have a cap that's all

Stego isn't on your diet and the organs are WAY too big

[golden coral]

I'd argue troodon hanging on shouldn't drain anythings stamina, with how tiny they are

[keen plover]

I 100% agree

[golden coral]

Not that I'm a fan of omnis draining it either if that's still a thing, they already have the "can't run when pounced", no need for stam drain

[golden coral]

Troodon next for scaling!

Dilo venom does kind of scale, with night time too, though it could probably do with some tuning. Cera bile now scales, time for troodon venom to follow suit

Fixes the issues, and allows troodon to have potent venom where it should have, without worrying about larger things dying when they shouldn't

[keen plover]

nah but if we're being real, troodon isn't that hard to fight off lol. I do think maybe a bit of a drop off is needed. But the stam drain 100% needs to go

I can see the fun aspect as well. A hard lock on what you can and can't hunt is a bit lame

[golden coral]

You know, on second thought, maybe keeping the stam drain would be good, now that troodon can hang on and attack at stage three. Would help with the whole "prey run away" I keep seeing complaints about.

[golden coral]

Scaling does not mean hard lock though? Cera can still hunt stegos, just that it's a lot harder, and an already weakened one is a better target

You could just apply similar scaling to troodon, so it can't just get a rex to stage three in three pounces

[golden coral]

Also not entirely sure there, they're very fast and agile, so depends on how well you can handle that. But then, I play stego, so it's a lost cause to begin with there as it currently stands

[rancid sluice]

Endless tail attacks mean rather little with how bad those attacks are (and it's just bringing it up to normal status of being able to alt attack out of stam, like everyone else, so nothing stego specific). - You cant compare it to fights between Carno and Cera, or utha with someone. These fights are rarely about endurance and waiting. A fight with a stegosaurus is all about endurance and waiting, you will die from 1 hit if you rush but steg will lose If he's not careful. You answered this yourself - You said that these are not mechanics, it is not clear what it is. In one update you can't attack with a tail without endurance, in another you attack, endurance is spent, but zero endurance does not limit your attacks.
The swing has a cooldown, making the attack clunky, so while the speed of the attack itself is fine - You forget that he can put his head in water, in a stone, in the mud, and it will be very difficult for you to kill him when he has ENDLESS attacks.

(but ​​hardly out of the ordinary in speed from what I can see) - The thing is that the cerata has a mechanic (maybe even a bug, yes yes), canceling the damage from the tail, while the target vomits. Before the update, you could easily hit the head or tail, and he would swing for a long time, but he could expose his side, his attack speed would increase, but it does not give you 100% cancellation of his attack, because he simply has a higher chance of killing you. Now with a charged blow, you can try to hit him, but even if he vomits. you will die or he will knock you down, but will not cause you damage, a lot of bugs.
Also yes, stego can "combo" - The animation is too choppy, he can do a normal attack after a charged attack. (doublet) IMAGINE, you try to force him to do a charged attack, BUT you can't hit him. Because of this, and he can't do the second normal attack that you expect! and you'll never kill him.
Most playables can attack repeatedly, be it the same attack or two different ones, so again nothing specific to studio, or "incredible", considering it's rather normal - Again, you're comparing stegosaurus to fights between carno,cera, utah, tenonto, which are different

[golden coral]

You can absolutely compare, I'm comparing how the playables work. None of the things you mentioned were stego specific. You were the one saying it was "incredible mechanics" for stego, when it's not for stego specifically or anything. And that's kind of the thing, endurance hunting is fine, so is waiting. But being defenseless due to out of stam is not, and that's what the change fixed. You can still not swing without stamina, so think of that attack as the "special" then if you want, and the jab as the alt attack.

Not sure what you're trying to say later on, yes cerato could vomit lock? That was a bad thing and made every playable suffer. The only side angle that's good on the jab is the very specific one, and even so that's nothing impressive, and very easy to predict and avoid. Not sure what you're referring to with bugs, the jab does not knock down, the swing does. And yes, it can combo, like any other playable can. Again, it's nothing incredible or a mechanic, or even specific to stego. Teno can, most of the others can of course bite, or alt bite, or follow up a charge or ram with another attack, and so on. You're basically saying that you don't want stego to be able to miss one attack and then follow up with another, despite the fact that every playable can do that. No matter if the attacks hit or miss, really.

And no, there's no difference. I am literally comparing how the playables themselves work, which is what matters here. It doesn't matter how you hunt them, you can endurance hunt, and exhaust a teno, or a carno, or an omni even. There's no reason why stego should be defenseless out of stam when a carno or omni or even pachy or teno isn't. It has no relation to how the hunt works. There's nothing that says playable x can be exhausted but not playable y. Especially not when teno is an endurance hunt, and carno can be as well for that matter.

You also showed in your video that you successfully hunted stegos, multiple times, despite them using terrain, and presumably having "unlimited attacks". Which goes to show that stego is not only perfectly huntable, even when it's using terrain, but also that no amount of "free" attacks matter if you can't deliver the attack properly anyway.

[dusky surge]

If a stego using mudpools and "infinite attack spam" still loses to cerato, the "small defensive corpse bully", I don't think stego is overpowered

[golden coral]

They need to hurry up and get us rex and trike, it will fix everything

[shadow vortex]

Cera bile scales really weird though xd

[golden coral]

It does currently, yes. I imagine there might be some values that are a bit off. But the scaling as an idea is good and does help with letting something be powerful where it should, without also making that power too good vs things it shouldn't. Troodon is a good example, now with the fog, unless people think it makes sense that a rex would suddenly see and hear things because a troodon pounced it three times.

[dusky surge]

@dreamy wadi Unfair for the cera? Or the big herbi?

[clever valley]

What do we all think of #balance-feedback message ?

[snow glade]

@leaden wagon #balance-feedback message

This is probably just a case of terrible servers / bad ping

[leaden wagon]

@mystic jacinth the carnos ram doesn’t do crazy damage I would make it so you have to run a little to ram but still have no cooldowns

[regal tulip]

plus as a teno you WANT a carno to use charge

[leaden wagon]

@stark knoll WHY? ❌

[stark knoll]

I think most of those are just op stat buffs and don't provide what I want out of mutations

[leaden wagon]

these mutaions are like full adult mutaions and make your dino build different/ more your playstyle @stark knoll

[stark knoll]

The vast majority are just outright damage buffs and rng

Both things I dislike, so that's why I put an x

[leaden wagon]

@stark knoll but theres cons?????

[stark knoll]

I know

[leaden wagon]

@Herp-A-Derp why?? ❌

@stark knoll so how is it broken if you have cons for better stats for your liking

@stark knoll which one is broken?

[stark knoll]

All of them honestly

[leaden wagon]

? but thats what makes your build different its not all broken you lose something to get somerhing also if you look at the % and check

can you at least put a 👍 for the idea for personal mutations

[slim dragon]

For example, the -50% health for a 10% damage boost on herrera isn't a real downside as herrera never really fights
Same as the biteforce decrease since herrera exclusively fights by launching itself from a tree

I agree with Lunary, all of those are either OP combat buffs or just useless

[leaden wagon]

@slim dragon it's +15% more damage from Height for -50% heath capacity

[slim dragon]

Yes

[leaden wagon]

from hieght so its using its tree and jump attack

[slim dragon]

Why does a herrera care about its max health when it fights exclusively by oneshotting things
And a damage buff alows it to oneshot more things, so that's a OP combat buff without a real downside

[leaden wagon]

but at the same time your health is like 65 so your 1 shot by omnis allmost but for more damage

[slim dragon]

But even if it wasn't op or had an actual downside, combat mutations are bad

RNG is bad too

[leaden wagon]

but its a personal mutation, lets befare its a good idea** YES **but dont take it as its being added yes?

[slim dragon]

Species-specific mutations have been suggested before, and in better ways than this one
I only upvote suggestions that I like

[leaden wagon]

but you like the idea for personal mutations?

[slim dragon]

yes

[leaden wagon]

so put a 👍 ❤️

[slim dragon]

Why ?

[leaden wagon]

you said yes

[slim dragon]

I did

But as I also said, species-specific mutations isn't exactly an original idea, it's been suggested many times before, and has also been considered by the dev team already

I don't like being railroaded into putting a specific reaction under a message I don't agree with

[stark knoll]

I like the idea of species-specific mutations, I don't like any that have been suggested in that post

[leaden wagon]

ok 👍

ill make it more diffrent

hows that

[slim dragon]

Combat mutations are still bad

[leaden wagon]

why

[slim dragon]

Because they create a meta in which they are necessary in order to not become fodder for the ones who have them

[leaden wagon]

you could have like +10 damge for -10 stam capacity

[slim dragon]

Also since there is currently no visual cue for mutations, you have no way to know if an enemy is going to hit you harder, or have more stam than it should and it feels like you're fighting against cheaters all the time

[leaden wagon]

but the other dinos could us there buff to

[slim dragon]

(And by the way, it also makes it easier for cheaters to cheat without being banned because it's harder to tell a cheater apart from someone with a combat mutation)

[leaden wagon]

but that makes it more different and more skill based

[slim dragon]

Therefore combat mutations become the meta, and everyone is forced to pick them in order to be able to defend themselves against the others, and every mutation that isn't combat-related gets thrown into the trash

[slim dragon]

No, it's the exact opposite

It's less skill-based if you can compensate being bad through dealing 15% more damage

[leaden wagon]

true but they will find a way to kick people who run to fast or fly hack

[slim dragon]

No, not people who run too fast, since there are speed-increasing mutations

[leaden wagon]

ya +15 damge for maybe mid tier

and that would only give them like 25-60 more damage for like a big con

[slim dragon]

Why do you say that ? Because apexes would get even bigger increases ?
Do you realize how OP a 15% damage increase on all attacks is in this game ?

[slim dragon]

Then you've succesfully created a mutation that is absolutely OP for some playables and absolutely worthless for others

[leaden wagon]

ya but the CONS you could have stam or bleed cons and what ever sound like a even con

[slim dragon]

That's a balancing nightmare which has no reason to even exist

All that hassle could be saved by simply not having combat mutations

[leaden wagon]

ok how about +5 something not like +15% i said personal mutaions

[slim dragon]

How about nothing

[leaden wagon]

but then wveryone is going to use the same build all the timne

[slim dragon]

NO, that's the point

[leaden wagon]

i mean we all know what 3 mutations we all get

[slim dragon]

If mutations aren't beneficial for combat, then people use them to compliment their own way of gameplay through increasing their survival chances for the way they play

[leaden wagon]

thats not fun

[slim dragon]

Neither are combat mutations tbh

[leaden wagon]

but if you wanna do more damge for a con or have more food cpasity or stam when why cant you

[slim dragon]

Because it's not balanced

[leaden wagon]

its a personal mutaion

only for your dino only

[slim dragon]

Because it makes you win fights you shouldn't be winning, and there is no way for opponent to tell you actually have more damage, or more stamina

[leaden wagon]

and the other dino may also have ther own but you never know

[slim dragon]

You understand this is a mustiplayer game, right ?
Everything a player does affects other players as well

[slim dragon]

And that's exactly why combat mutations create a meta and reduce variety

Because then you HAVE to pick the best combat mutations for your dino in case you meet someone who has combat mutations, so you may styand a chance

And you will never pick any other mutation than the combat ones because these won't save you in this situation, while a combat mutation will

[leaden wagon]

when why is ther covert 50% damage to stam or eating restors 5% health???

[slim dragon]

Implementing combat mutations is reducing the mutations system to combat mutations only, even if there are other mutations available

[leaden wagon]

still combat

[slim dragon]

Because devs made a bad decision by implementing it

[leaden wagon]

no its diffrent and you dont like diffrent and fun?

you like legacy bro thats the same stuff over and over again

[slim dragon]

The reabsorption mutation that allows you to get hydration from rain is a good example of well-designed mutation
It's kind of a gamble since you can't be certain there will be rain when you need it, it gives a good edge in survival, but doesn't affect combat

[leaden wagon]

but bro its a personal mutions** only get to pick one** and thats when your full adult or what ever the devs make it you cant pick more then one but the buff is strong but also has cons like i said or you can pick a team build or survival build

[stark knoll]

It doesn't matter if you only get to pick one, they're still OP imo

You only get to select either eat-to-heal OR damage-to-stam but both are still op

[leaden wagon]

@stark knoll bro thats what make it diffrent then just 1. reduce incoming damage from bigger creature by +15 2. eating restors +5 HP 3. some random mutaion you may pick

[slim dragon]

You know what would be simpler and less headache-inducing ? Removing the adult mutation slot form every playable
This way you achieve the same result without having to come up with weird buffs and debuffs that are balanced for every playable

[leaden wagon]

its all the same and never diffrent but with personal mutaions its may be easy to kill something or hard by what you picked

[stark knoll]

I think those two mutations should be removed, too

[leaden wagon]

but everyone uses them and its not diffrent

just believe i promise it will be more fun with personal mutaions ok ❤️

[stark knoll]

The fact that everyone uses them because they're so strong is why I want them removed

I think species-specific mutations would be fun, too, but nothing like what you suggested

[leaden wagon]

well they nerfeed them but people want the combat build not no survival build

but they sill use them for a resean

only time will tell

[hasty coyote]

My issue with combat mutations is that they are either strong enough to make an impact in combat, or they’re useless. And if they’re able to make an impact, they’re op. Perfect example is speed mutations. 5% speed boost sounds negligible on paper, but it allows a cera to outrun other ceras, tenos, and even pachies who don’t have the mutation. This means those dinos have to waste a slot to make sure they are not randomly run down by a speed boosted cera.

[sour otter]

#balance-feedback message - deleted - requires detailed verification
(which, by the way, causes the death of the cer since they cannot catch up with the Guerrer in an open field). Although deinosuchus, as a semi-aquatic, cannot run on land quickly, since evolution takes away another advantage due to one advantage in return. The crocodile swims well, but runs poorly, the guerrera climbs trees well and runs well on the ground - how? the foss cannot run fast on the ground
further along the strong advantages of Guerrera - he does not know errors in height calculations, the mutation -miniscus allows guerrera not to crash at all, you can fall from the sky and not crash at all.
Also, guerrera has an unreasonably strong blid against the background of an omniraptor, perhaps once in Dilophosaurus , compare the claws of guerrera and omni, he cannot give a full blid to a ceratosaurus in the adult stage with one jump - when guerrera is 145 kg. and cera is 1300 kg.
the disadvantages of guerrera are insignificant: weak vitality, stamina is quickly spent on the run and regenerates for a long time, that is, ceratosaurus does not catch up with you and you can climb to regenerate stamina anywhere - guerrera is an unpunished dinos and ceratosaurus is easy prey for him with a minimum of effort. I jumped 1 time, you don't let it sit down (you update here blid it sometimes) - all the loot flows out standing up. 1 guerrera takes 1 cera :/
I suggest that guerrere running speed be reduced, since he has lost his adaptation to good running instead of climbing trees well.
Weaken the blide of the guerrera so that it requires several jumps on large prey - ceratosaurus, diablo, tenonta and pachycephosaurus.
In fact, one ceratosaurus suffers greatly from guerrera.
The Omni detain Guerrera to the ground
up with Karno,
Diablo takes a running shot pushes groin to the ground
breaks legs
deino lives in the water
dilka catches
up, etc.

[hasty coyote]

This singular mutation also affects so many other fights as well, like Omni outrunning dilo or troo outrunning Omni. Current few combat mutations already affect fights so much. You have ceras and omnis being nearly unkillable because they just eat from a body and heal to full, you have stegos and diablos having near infinite stam. Now imagine every Dino having a mutation that does this something to this extent, balance would be absolute chaos.

[opaque vine]

#balance-feedback message @sour otter Herrera does have disadvantages. It’s pretty much confined to the trees and can’t move so freely on the ground.

• fast hunger + water drain
• poor swimming speed + O2 capacity
• clunky alt attack and low HP for its size (can’t brawl anything)
• poor bleed resistance and small blood pool
• it’s slow during its growth stages except when it reaches 100%
  Herrera does have its disadvantages. It has good advantages not denying that but it’s not perfect in every possible way

[sour otter]

I did not understand in any way how your listed points relate to my essence of the problem
, let's better go with you to the sandboxer - you will be a cera and I will be a guerrera and show how to fight off a cera from a guerrera, do you?

[opaque vine]

You can’t fight off a cera as a herrera

On the ground atleast

[sour otter]

Will you prove it to me?

[opaque vine]

Prove to you that the 1.3T carnivorous brawler with 345N biteforce is stronger than the 175 kgs Herrera with 30N? Sure

[cosmic pelican]

I wanna see this 1v1 happen so much

[sour otter]

prove it in practice ! go behind the cera and kill / be able to save herrera

[opaque vine]

Sure what server are you on

[sour otter]

name server: (ru) Sandbox SkyTopgames the world of dino
come on in - I'll be waiting for you
in advance - settings: standard, as the developers prescribed

[opaque vine]

Switching back to the main branch

Gonna take a minute

[shadow vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/muzeke-gif-27066381

[cosmic pelican]

Hmm cera vs herrera 1v1, woder who will win

[royal beacon]

where are they fightin tho

[sour otter]

Do you want him or me to upload screenshots of corpses or a whole video later?

[sour otter]

@royal beacon

[slim dragon]

Does cera get stunned by a succesful herrera pounce ?

[cosmic pelican]

Nope

It bleeds out from 2 max height jumps if it doesnt sit though

But good luck getting that on a cera that knows youre there

[sour otter]

Well, 1 jump and a full blid, probably feels it to the fullest

[slim dragon]

Getting the first one on a cera that's aware of your presence, and not getting alt-bitten instantly after, would be hard

[sour otter]

there is no difference for the blide, your height is 1 for me, herrera micro-jumped and updated the blide to the very 0 drop of blood

[cosmic pelican]

Herreras dmg and bleed output is affected by how high it jumps from, a micro jump cant even hurt omnis

[sour otter]

to understand the probability of waiting for deinosuchus in water is more obvious than herrera in trees - trees (any hills) are everywhere

[sour otter]

to damage no - to give a strong blid yes, is there a mistake in the development?

[slim dragon]

Yes but herrera's pounce is easier to dodge than deino lunge
Also herrera is easier (and by easier I mean possible) to spot before it can attack

[sour otter]

🫠

[slim dragon]

I meant easier to dodge

[opaque vine]

Have you ever beaten a cerato as a herrera

[sour otter]

is it easier from deinosuchus or herrera ?

[sour otter]

Are you coming in soon?

[slim dragon]

It's easier to dodge a herrera pounce than a deinosuchus lunge
Because it takes time for the herrera to fall, while the lunge is pretty much instant

[opaque vine]

My download speed is slow, I’ll be there in a bit

[cosmic pelican]

I could join instead, if you dont mind

Im on the live branch

[opaque vine]

Was gonna ask you that lol

[cosmic pelican]

😛

[opaque vine]

Perfect

[sour otter]

for some reason, it's easier for me to predict deinosuchus than for herrera

[opaque vine]

^ the server

[cosmic pelican]

I only have 20 mins, but Ill try to make do

[sour otter]

you nickname ?

[cosmic pelican]

Mr.Potato

[sour otter]

ok, my ashkirill

caps lock

[cosmic pelican]

I should spawn a cera, right?

[cosmic pelican]

Im in the server, tp me

[sour otter]

yes

[sour otter]

global in server

[opaque vine]

How did it go?

[cosmic pelican]

should I send a video?

Although we could only do 2 fights

one ended in herrera death, the other was a tie (I tanked the first pounce and walked away)

[sour otter]

Can I see how it was with you on the blid

[cosmic pelican]

I never went below 90%

Heres the footage of the first fight

That pounce got me to around 70%hp

[slim dragon]

That's exactly how I pictured it would go

[cosmic pelican]

Second fight was just the 2 of us looking at each other weirdly

[opaque vine]

“Herrera is OP”

[sour otter]

Come into the game and I'll see Blida's work

[opaque vine]

Alr

[sour otter]

can private servers change the balance of dinos or mutations?

[opaque vine]

No

[cosmic pelican]

Unofficials can alter mutations, but not dino stats

[sour otter]

He didn't get a full blitz for the jump - And threw it off standing up

[cosmic pelican]

The other fight where you didnt fall over and die was even worse

I tanked the pounce and was still blue hp

[sour otter]

what mutation affects the strength of the blida in guerrera? - I was promptly assured that the settings were not touched

[cosmic pelican]

Damage mutations. Like hypermetabolic initiation, hemomania etc

but those only add an extra 5% or so

not enough to make a significant difference

[sour otter]

if I was deceived, I curse
if there is a bug, I curse

[cosmic pelican]

Theres no bug, herrera just isnt op

[opaque vine]

No! That’s just impossible….

[sour otter]

I have a video where I got as much blitz as I described

[opaque vine]

Send

[sour otter]

When are you coming in?

[cosmic pelican]

Tbf you also said herrera can 1v1 a cera, which as we saw just isnt happening, even if we simulate an ambush

[opaque vine]

2 more GB’s

[cosmic pelican]

I believe you saying you got a lot of bleed from a herrera, yes they do decent bleed, but nowhere near enough to just go around killing anything with one jump

[cosmic pelican]

sending hopes, prayers and wifi😭 🙏

[sour otter]

Are you listening to me? I'm telling you, you didn't get a full blida, as happens to me - 2 fights is not an indicator, because you wrote that it's time for you

Don't you want to throw off the video of 2 fights?
@cosmic pelican

[cosmic pelican]

In the 2nd fight you jumped on me, got a headshot and I was trotting/walking until the bleed healed. All that moving and it barely got me to 90%.

[cosmic pelican]

I dont have it sadly, didnt save

[opaque vine]

“Are you listening to me” no offense but I don’t think anyone can, you’re speaking in a hieroglyphic way😭

[cosmic pelican]

Not really their fault, its hard to make yourself understood without good english knowledge here

[sour otter]

What is the difficulty? or did you just throw off 1 fight for fun, I don't understand

[cosmic pelican]

You said I can do anything in my power to save myself, which I did in the form of walking away so you cant get a 2nd jump

[sour otter]

language barrier - sorry. I see that there is a problem with the word "guerrera"

[opaque vine]

No worries

[sour otter]

I remember how I put a stego on Herrera because of the blid, but the second adolt helped him throw off the build - that is, even the stack was able to get a full blid in 1 hit

[cosmic pelican]

You mean you made something bleed out from 1 hit?

I mean, yeah herrera can do that, but 1 jump will only bleed out dilo sized things at most.

[opaque vine]

Yea but even dilos can survive it as long as you play smart lol

Hell, I’ve done it with omni

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah if you can find a save spot and sit youll be fine

[sour otter]

yes, the stegosaurus began to sit down and allowed him to give a blide once again, even his friend on the stegosaurus hit him, but he sat on until the end while he protected him and was able to throw off the blide. That is, if he were alone, he could bleed out standing up

[cosmic pelican]

So you made a stego that let you get free jumps on it bleed out? I really dont see how this makes herrera op.

Just sounds like a skill issue from the stegos part.

[sour otter]

Should I sit down alone? It's obvious that the party will help to get rid of the blood

[opaque vine]

Yea that’s like drinking out of a river knowing there is a deino there. Just move out of its range after the first pounce

[sour otter]

I don't know for sure, but is it really necessary to sit down from one blow? I was definitely dying when I didn't notice that I was leaking blood, so I was running away from 1 blow

[cosmic pelican]

Why would the stego sit down where the herrera was, it couldve just walked away after the first jump if it needed several more to bleed it out.

[sour otter]

if I get 1 blow and stand up, if I need to throw it off while sitting, he just won't let me sit down, and if I sit down, he'll run up and bite and run away

[opaque vine]

I’m in btw

We can test it out

[cosmic pelican]

I had no problems evading your pounces earlier, just move out of the way and the herrera cant do anything

[opaque vine]

@sour otter are you in?

[cosmic pelican]

And if it tries to follow, just walk away some more, even if youll lose a lot of blood, better than letting it get a second jump on you and signing your death certificate.

[sour otter]

there would be no problem if: Guerrera needed to do more than 1 stroke for full blood and did not run faster than cera

[cosmic pelican]

Herreras damage is affected by how big the target is compared to itself, so if you almost bled out from one jump as a stego you mustve been a juvenile

[cosmic pelican]

Theres global chat in the server

[opaque vine]

Bleed healed at 85%

[sour otter]

I'm not a teenager Stegi

I've talked to others on the stego , it's only happened to me on the ceras

[cosmic pelican]

A sub or an adult would not have even noticed a herrera jumping them

[opaque vine]

I survived 2 pounces from max height

[sour otter]

in general, guys, I will check the server where I received so much blood and if it turns out that the mutations were twisted, I will tell you about it and delete my idea then. anyway, I'll figure out how it turns out that the players on herrera have rabid blood

[opaque vine]

Sounds good 👍 have a nice day

[sour otter]

send me this video

[sour otter]

private messages

[opaque vine]

Done

[sour otter]

surely it can't be a bug that dinos suddenly started to apply blood furiously? at one moment or from one player, in any other way

[opaque vine]

No it isn’t a bug. Unless you get pounced 2-3 times you should be good to go

If you’re above 1 ton

[shadow vortex]

No EEL, I won't give you my "Y"

[royal valve]

: (

@bright oasis hmmm not balanced spawning as a full adult i think making it spawn as juvie with a 10 hour growth time would be a better fit

also another balance could be reducing its stomach size so it needs to eat every 30 seconds or begin to starve

[shadow vortex]

No, crocs need food.

Actually, remove at all its attacks and make it spawn as a 500 kgs free meal right in a Croc's mouth.

That would be fair for both sides I think.

[royal valve]

remove all mobility as well

its like a McChicken ready for eating

[coarse thunder]

#balance-feedback those nerfs aren't nearly enough to balance beipi, it needs to repent for it's crimes against humanity

[shadow vortex]

Yes, why would it need running? Its destiny is right there, green scaly beast dropping saliva in temptation.

[royal valve]

https://tenor.com/view/kummeli-thumbs-up-nice-well-done-approve-gif-12348671

[coarse thunder]

the evil and dastardly beipi mains have had it coming for too long

[shadow vortex]

Beipi mustn't shouldn't oughtn't haven't needn't have fun in its pathetic ducky life at all.

[royal valve]

chance for a bepi to spontaneously detonate? anyone else think that would be a good addition

[coarse thunder]

TRUE!

[shadow vortex]

Yes please.

Shh chat mr omni is speaking...

He must tell us the TRUTH!

[royal valve]

hes been typing for a while

[dusky surge]

as funny as it is to make fun of how utterly garbage beipi is, I really want more people talking about what needs to be fixed because DEAR GOD the fact that this meme exists should prove the fact that this animal is hotdog water LMAO

[coarse thunder]

im still so mad about the breach changes

[dusky surge]

devs need to make it not an actual joke

[coarse thunder]

Why Would You Not Increase The Breach Height To The Fun Height When You Fix The Bug

[dusky surge]

I understand it was a fix, but why not make EVERY BREACH THAT GOOD

[shadow vortex]

Hotdog water? Wait, really, Beipi needs to turn into hotdogs for every carni in its reachable range.

[royal valve]

mokurni they wouldn't see it, can we make it levitate towards their mouth?

[shadow vortex]

YES PLEASE!

[coarse thunder]

give deino a passive ability where all beipis on the map are slowly dragged towards it like a black hole 🥰

[shadow vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/brazil-mordekaiser-gif-5435322123100200200

[dusky surge]

THEY'RE ADDING AUSTRO AND BARY AFTER OUR NEXT GROUP OF ANIMALS WHY IS BEIPI GETTING EVEN WORSE RAAAGH

[shadow vortex]

bALAN.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/970413335243817001/1285697173295464469/sad-homelander-yuyocomepingas.gif

[dusky surge]

They are:

• Reworking ptera
• Reworking deino
• Adding austro
• Adding bary

And beipi is STILL GETTING NERFS

[shadow vortex]

Devs are restraining from making Beepy worse (they can't resist). Live ViDeO.

[royal valve]

can ptera get ability to carpet bomb bepi habitats

[royal valve]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-tom-hardy-transform-painful-agony-gif-11732228

[opaque vine]

Any mentions on what they’re doing with deino?

[dusky surge]

Besides vert lunge? Not really no

We know it's a kit rework tho

Something akin to stego's (which is already raising red flags for me)

[coarse thunder]

deino doesnt eat grass so i cant imagine it getting gutted as hard as stegos rework

[dusky surge]

true!

that was stego's big mistake if i'm to be honest

[bright oasis]

SUCH A GREAT IDEA

[slim dragon]

Deino will get a power lunge that costs 75% stamina but allows it to grab things up to 3x its own weight

[olive zinc]

My brother in christ, Gallis are the fastest dino on the isle, why on earth would you need bleed as an escape tool?

[royal beacon]

random spawns are good why people crying

[distant torrent]

@viscid schooner agree except for the unnecessary jab at teno. we don’t need more herbivore nerfs while the current carnivore roster keeps getting insane buffs lol

plus the claw attack is to punish things with bad bleed res for getting up close and personal with teno while the teno also gets equally punished with a head shot retaliation and bad bleed res of their own. teno can’t really chase down targets around their same speed or faster and actively claw attack them while they’re running

[bright oasis]

Not even just that, but they also have almost twice the amount of runtime as most other playables. Just over 4 mins normally, perfect diet bumps it up to about 5.

It's playstyle is intended to be: Kick small stuff, run from big stuff + omni since it's pounce is a one shot. It didn't need bleed to be effective at running away. It's a fine nerf that doesn't affect the way it's played when played to its strengths already.

[viscid schooner]

Stamina. A persistent Carnivore, raptors in particular, will track until it gets low and then pin it because it's an easy meal.

[viscid schooner]

Carnis are incredibly over-tuned right now, and teno doing bleed is fine, my problem is with the freakin machinegun rate it can spam its claws at. It's unpunishable, especially if the teno backs its ass against a wall and just sits there and spams alts. Other dinosaurs aren't rewarded for getting it low on stamina because to be honest, tail slams and kicks are infinitely easier to punish than claw spamming.

[clever urchin]

galis need bleed not to be able to escape, but to defend. and fight. otherwise they are just a dryo. they are omni cause they should be able to fight some things

[neon hound]

Yeah seriously like come on the Beipi needs something more, give it a speed boost and a stam boost and a breach boost and increase it's damage and health

At this point the Beipi needs a buff more than Carnis who get buffs none stop (looking at you Omni)

[dusky surge]

I don't think it needs all of that

I'd say having its claws do 40 damage and high bleed, its breach height being increased and surface swim speed increased would be enough

[neon hound]

Maybe fast stam regen while in water when above 50%

[dusky surge]

Ehh, I don't know, it's pretty stam efficient as-is. The surface swim speed nerf came with a crazy good stam buff

[neon hound]

Yeah fair it just needs better surface swim speed and more damage and a bit of bleed

#balance-feedback message Hitboxes are usually ping or lag problems also the whole point of the Carno rework was that the charge was less powerful but didn't have a cooldown

[golden coral]

@blazing sedge How so, what is it lacking?

[golden coral]

@mint rain Just don't make the buck some RNG but a way to tell that "I better get off before it's too late" and it'd be less of an issue

[mint rain]

Right if I could tell when I'm about to come off and jump off myself I wouldn't care

[golden coral]

@mystic jacinth For the diet, I would imagine smaller dibbles would be prey. As for current carno, it does seem to do the job it's supposed to do better, unlike prior iterations, so while it might be overtuned, I do think it's more of a step in the right direction than not.

[mint rain]

but just getting dropped right in a carnos mouth is just kinda

[golden coral]

I should probably clarify, I firmly believe that if you do get bucked off, you should be in a terrible spot. But I would change the RNG to "full cycle of bucking throws you off" + "if you pounce while bucking, you do the kick/off instead". That way you can learn a playables buck cycle, and know when you have to get off (though if you do wait that long, you can be timed, but well that would be a choice you make)

[mint rain]

I understood you, I feel the same way. Being dropped in a bad spot wouldn't be an issue if there was clear sign before

[golden coral]

This way there's some learning to "how does this critter buck" for the omni, and for the target, if the omni is brave enough to hold on for "too long" and can be timed

Current RNG is just a really strange choice honestly, no matter how the drop off looks

Since its well, if you're lucky, you can sit there forever, if not, you get thrown off before you can do anything

[mint rain]

I've been knocked a few times on peoples first buck. I don't believe they even specified the exact % chance it has to happen

[golden coral]

No idea on that, I doubt they'd tell us, us knowing numbers and stats seems to be bad xD

I just find the entire idea of making it RNG so very bad

[slim dragon]

On one hand RNG is bad, on the other hand I understand the need to make it unpredictable
If it was for example a fixed "buck damage" it would be too easy to predict for the raptors, who would then always jump off one milisecond before getting bucked off

[golden coral]

If they did wait that late, you could time to hit them on dismount perhaps?

[slim dragon]

And I'm not sure how it could be made unpredictable in any other way
Many people suggested a DbD skillcheck, but it doesn't solve much, because if it's too easy, no raptor ever gets bucked off, if it's hard, every raptor will get bucked off on the first cycle, only the best raptors will be able to stay on indefinitely

[golden coral]

I don't think it necesarily needs to be unpredictable

Bucking should be a "you will get off, sooner or later, either get off quickly but safely, or wait and get hit on dismount/fall off"

Nothing should be able to sit for more than a cycle really, that's kind of the point

[slim dragon]

No because they jump far away when dismounting
Also it's just an example, they could dismount a the safest moment knowing exaclty when they would have been bucked off

[golden coral]

But if you know when they would have gotten bucked off, you could stop right before and attack, to catch them, even if they do jump far?

[dusky surge]

also DbD sucks

[slim dragon]

It's better than SCP secret laboratory

I mean yeah DbD is bad on many aspects, but you can't disregard some good ideas in that game

[dusky surge]

like

[slim dragon]

The "red light" that indicates where the killer is looking and the pulse that plaers when it's getting close
The "survivors are slower but more agile than the killer" chase mechanisms
And honestly some perks are great

But yeah, DbD skill checks kinda suck

They're more a latency check than a skill check tbh

[dusky surge]

Both the red light and the heartbeat are anti-horror

They provide the survivor with easy instant warning that danger approaches, discouraging actual sitautional awareness and communication in favour of a flat alarm. The red light is also only necessary for that game because of how much the game relies on using line of sight cutoffs for loops, an entire counterplay mechanic so mindnumbingly dull it deserves to be used as an example of how not to do counterplay.

I played a game called Monstum 2, where one of the main killers was the brute, a character with a COLOSSAL orange light that emitted from it like a beacon, and booming footsteps that alerted you to its presence. What was cool about that though is that it was unique to that monster and made it an intimidating presence, given said monster was instant death if it got its hands on you. No other monster behaved in that way

Some perks are great, and others fully lean into the "nuh uh uh no playing for you" mindset

[slim dragon]

Well some killers have the ability to hide their red light and terror radius too
But yeah, Dead by Daylight isn't scary
And I think it's a major issue in that game
They made a scary game, but they wanted it to be competitive too, so they removed the scary element

[dusky surge]

The level of distaste I have for every single facet of DbD's game design is beyond comprehension

It is a bad game carried by star power and an established community

Adding skill checks to omni pounce just basically means that bucking is good against people who suck and is useless against people who are good

A forced skillfloor that means that if the raptor attacking you is good, you're already screwed

[keen plover]

being pounced by 4 raptors rn is hell...

heck even 2

the stam loss

[dusky surge]

don't know why bucking still costs stam, i thought that was dead lol

[golden coral]

??

[keen plover]

It drains a lot of stam out of the prey

Like if the rng doesn't favour you it's gg

[golden coral]

Sounds great, I take it stego is no better off, unless you run the mutation, if that helps?

[dusky surge]

bucking mutation was removed lol

[keen plover]

which mutation?

[golden coral]

Not that one, the stam return on damage

[neon hound]

Bruh that should be the other way around

[keen plover]

Also idk about stego but playing as a diablo and stego, it was pretty much gg

NO CERA

Not stego * lol

[golden coral]

Stamina one, so you get some back when attacked

[keen plover]

ah not sure if that works against pounce or not

[golden coral]

Oh, even better then, sounds like a great time xD

[keen plover]

You'd think that

[dusky surge]

Pick raptor more

[keen plover]

Omni, Cerato and dilo are annoying me rn :(

[neon hound]

Also pinning taking barely any stamina and not being able to buck is kinda terrible

[golden coral]

No, I will play my stego, and remain depressed!

[leaden remnant]

just so yall know, raptor got nerfed to the absolute worm realm this update

[golden coral]

What happened? I know galli got gutted apparently, what else?

[dusky surge]

galli's honestly fine, people are overblowing it. It can still slaughter carnos and ceratos in groups as it did before

[golden coral]

Still, doesn't make much sense to remove all bleed. But true, it can still run, so all is well.

A bit surprised a cera get ganked though, carno I can see more easily now with how "tiny" it is

[dusky surge]

Well given your trotspeed is almost cera's sprint speed, you can kinda still just walk away while puking and be fine

[golden coral]

Still, you'd be out of the fight, wouldn't you?

[dusky surge]

You can just trot around and kick some more

[leaden remnant]

im not aware of all nerfs, some are reasonable imo, but these are the ones i know:

• group pinning (not sure if solo pinning) now costs way more stamina
• bucking is a death sentence (hold e and do your most damaging attack, you are 100% landing it)
• pounce damage reduced (not so unreasonable)
• more nerfs that i gotta check

so uh mr omni there you have it

raptor now takes a ton of skill

(not a bad thing imo)

[dusky surge]

"pounce damage got reduced" is rather disingenuous

[leaden remnant]

lmb damage

[golden coral]

So you can survive being pinned if they run out of stam? How's the damage/bleed on it? Also what did they do with bucking then, is it no longer RNG or why are you guaranteed a hit?

[leaden remnant]

about the pinned thing, not sure, if the raptors apply bleed im assuming not

the damage got reduced, a full stamina damage pounce puts a carno to orange, but remember that he can buck you off infinite times so you gotta apply bleed instead

bucking is still rng, doesn't dismount you or anything, just bonks you off, taht's why you're guaranteed a hit

[golden coral]

Don't bucking drain stam for the bucker still, so no infinite bucking?

Well, last time, didn't you say damage when being pinned was very reduced, or did they up that + bleed again?

[leaden remnant]

if a stego begins bucking then everyone is getting wiped

[golden coral]

But it's more so, if it now takes a lot of stam, how long can they keep something pinned for, if they get the pin immediately?

[leaden remnant]

don't think so

[leaden remnant]

damage when pouncing was reduced by a bit

[leaden remnant]

im not sure

if a raptor is pouncing and no other raptors jump in within 3 seconds, the main raptor should definetely leave it

[golden coral]

Would be interesting to know how long you can pin for now, if you say the stam drain has been increased, and if it actually makes a difference in being able to survive a group pin or not

Maybe it's a way to make it more of a finisher in some manner

[leaden remnant]

most likely

cant deliver enough damage or bleed to kill something unless you're basically full stamina

[split plume]

Is it me or is there 273 massive storms a day since the update ?
It's nice that there is a storm sometimes but, it's almost a few times a day now.

[hasty coyote]

Carno got nerfed to ceras size, they get mauled about as easily as each other. Especially since bleed isn’t a factor, ceras get evaporated by a group of galis.

[spring field]

should ceras make me puke withouth dealing damage?

[opaque vine]

#balance-feedback message @burnt cloud ngl it should make an adult teno vomit with a fully charged bite, Why were you even fighting it in the first place

[distant torrent]

it’s a body snatcher trash bin, not a hunter that easily hunts prey larger than itself

that’d be fine if it caused an immediate vomit while by a body, but not in the middle of nowhere without a body to defend or steal

[neon hound]

No really and expecting bucking from pinning is not unreasonable so you can actually fight back

[coarse blaze]

I know yesterday I bucked a raptor twice, the first time he did in fact get bucked off - the second pounce he never got bucked off and I did end up dying via their ability to just do flat out DMG now.

Why he got bucked the first time and not the second is beyond me and seemed pretty unfair that I just needed to hope he'd come off. Everyone had me thinking it was a constant and instant dismount every time someone bucked and yet it's clearly not.

[golden coral]

It's been stated in the patch notes it's RNG

[coarse blaze]

I heard that bouncing around, I genuinely didn't know if it were true or not for a bit. Having felt it finally I can't say I fully understand why everyone was making out that bucking was completely curbing omniraptor's ability to hunt.

[golden coral]

Bad luck will make it seem like bucking is really powerful, or really worthless

Depends on which side you're on

[slim dragon]

If bucking has to stay RNG, they could at least make it a karmic system to avoid these kind of situations...

[obtuse ocean]

What on earth is karmic system

[dusky surge]

@cobalt dagger #balance-feedback message

galli was many things, but it was NOT weak

[dusky surge]

what is this in reference to

[obtuse ocean]

look one up

[slim dragon]

A not-so-RNG RNG system

[cobalt dagger]

Nah I think Galli was just a bit weak. Definitely other things were WEAKER, though.

[obtuse ocean]

karmic

relating to or characteristic of karma.
"the karmic wheel of life"
    informal
    denoting good or bad luck, viewed as resulting from one's actions.
    "his new job must be some form of karmic payback"

[dusky surge]

You haven't seen the killsquads then

[obtuse ocean]

Im still confuse lol

[neon hound]

As a galli main no it wasn't it's still strong without bleed

[dusky surge]

Galli was without a doubt one of, if not the strongest creatures in the prior patch. It was WILD

[neon hound]

The stun on kicks are strong

[dusky surge]

And it's still strong even without bleed

[dusky surge]

I mean... Not really, since you can't stun most of your predators

[cobalt dagger]

I nested as Galli once and therein became part of one, but killsquads of raptors of the same number are worse.

[neon hound]

Nah raptors aren't as fast and rely on their pounce

Also raptor players are kinda stupid

[slim dragon]

It alters its probabilities based on your results, basically say you have a 50% chance of generating a positive result
Every time you get a negative result, the probability increased until you get a positive result, then it gets back to 50%
If you get multiple positive results in a row, the probability of getting a positive result will decrease until you get a negative result

[dusky surge]

Honestly, not even, galli was genuinely better

Bleed was nuts, the TROTRATE was unmatched insane endurance stamina, decent damage, etc

[neon hound]

Or just make bucking a meter you have to fill to kick the raptor off and add bucking to pinning

[cobalt dagger]

Not evaluating player capacity; I've seen some dumb galli too, some were in my group.

[obtuse ocean]

Ahh, get it. So its sorta favor more after awhile.

[neon hound]

Galli was not weak at all and it stil isn't

[dusky surge]

Then people would just dismount when the meter is close to full

[neon hound]

Did they decrease trot

[dusky surge]

lol no, galli's best asset remains alive and well

[neon hound]

Don't let the raptors see the meter and not have it be an actual seeable meter

[slim dragon]

Many modern games use this for their RNG, as it feels "fairer" for the player, but it's more useful for very low or very high probabilities
Like if you have a 10% chance of achieving a certain result, but fail the first 9 times, you're almost guaranteed than the 10th attempt will succeed

[slim dragon]

If the meter is always the same length, they can still memorize and guess it

[neon hound]

That does sound alright but I think there are much better ways of doing that and before we remake the bucking system add bucking to pinning

[dusky surge]

Then they'll just count. Still easily countered with the simple ability to memorise time and animations

[neon hound]

Yeah fair

[slim dragon]

Working the same way than bucking when standing ?
Like a hypsi throwing off an omni pinning it because it got lucky ?

[dusky surge]

Honestly a hypsi should be allowed to slip out if it gets that lucky LOL

[neon hound]

Yeah sure because otherwise pinning is kinda silly

Especially because Galli has the fun always gets pinned mechanic

[slim dragon]

If they make it a bar, then bucking while pinning will only be relevant to animals roughly the same size as omni, because others would die before they can fill it

[neon hound]

You know what just remove pinning it's stupid anway

[obtuse ocean]

Remove bucking worste thing ever, most uninteractive thing ever to be added to a game

[slim dragon]

Then what happens when you pounce something smaller than yourself ?

[neon hound]

Flat damage

[obtuse ocean]

Something is attacking me, let me push E and see what happends. God is awfull

[dusky surge]

what?

[neon hound]

Yeah just make it so bucking is a karmic system like you suggest

And have pinning also have bucking and remove the Galli pinned mechanic because why would you do that just ignore the rules you set for a system just because you wanted raptors to pin gallis for no reason

[cobalt dagger]

So, ptera, herra, and galli all have superior escape methods. They all have lower health and in herra's case, some decent way to deal damage. Raptor too, minus superior escape method, add killing capacity. I haven't played since bucking was updated, though.

All these creatures grow about the same, all of them are one-shot-pinnable to raptor, and all of them have some genuine escape method. All but ptera have some decent killing capacity. However, I think Galli's killing capacity is lower than Raptor, and close to about the same as herra. I think Galli's survivability is only slightly higher than raptor's on paper; But in effect, as raptor you often find friends to help your survival, where as galli rarely does, (Again last I played was before bucking update).

More notably though. As herra, and Ptera, if I don't want anyone but my own kind to touch me, I just fly or climb. And sure, Galli can run. But it doesn't have that same peace. You're far, far more invincible when flying or resting in a tree, than you are running. You can run off a cliff, get stuck on a rock or on a tree stump, run into a river or another predator. Running isn't perfect. And at the time I played, Galli's 'killing capacity' was severely held back by it's very low hp, low bleed, it's need to constantly fill diet in migration zones capping it's ability to endure prolonged 'patient' fights, pinnable-ness to raptor... And of course, the fact that no one else plays Galli anyway so, the only targets you can murder are solo unlucky 10 minute old juvies, or packs of 3 ceras or 4 raptors, or try your luck with the crocs in the water. Most of the players are inaccessible to you. Your most fun would most likely be acquired by tricking Herras to pounce you and being ready to kick them as they come down.

[obtuse ocean]

Worste thing ever, zero skill. You litterly just push a button, instead of having something the player can control and interact with whatever is on you.

[cobalt dagger]

I need to sleep now so I will have to see any answers tomorrow.

[dusky surge]

how else can you do it

[obtuse ocean]

I hope they add stuff, like bary. Who can drag them off, it looked like atleast in the picture

[slim dragon]

Make bucking like OSU

[dusky surge]

they're going to iirc

i believe allo will be able to do it

[neon hound]

This is actually a great explanation of my problem with Galli and Raptor interactions

[obtuse ocean]

I actually have zero clue what else they could be doing, but i dont like when i need to interact with something attacking me without actually dealing any dmg back or hurting them.

[dusky surge]

then your issue isn't bucking. it's pounce

[obtuse ocean]

Now i would like stego to just lay down and crush whatever is on it lol

[neon hound]

Yeah pouncing is kinda terrible

[obtuse ocean]

Im fine with pounce, is the fact that its untouchable when they are on me.

[neon hound]

Yeah exactly

[dusky surge]

if they weren't, raptors would be in hysterics

[neon hound]

As a galli shouldn't I be able to kick the stuffing out of a galli when they pin me

[neon hound]

I really hate raptor players as they are big crybabies who think they should be apex predators and everything else should be walking food that can't defend itself

[obtuse ocean]

And carno cera omni dilo, is litterly the same when you play them in tactic. Hit and run hit and run, herrera was the only fresh thing so far.

[dusky surge]

cerato is hit and run?

also btw i see a lot of people play herrera as hit and run lmao

[obtuse ocean]

lol, did they buff its health or something ? I die if i fight something on the ground

i jump and then straight to a tree lol

[dusky surge]

climb up a tree, jump on the thing, run up a tree again, repeat

people have killed diablos doing this

[obtuse ocean]

lol how, cant you just move as dibble

[obtuse ocean]

Can you use dilo hallucination at any stages? Or only last ?

[dusky surge]

last

[obtuse ocean]

Ahh ok, but they still get the sky thing around them ? even at first stage

[dusky surge]

yea

[obtuse ocean]

So bad map design, when everyone is forced to go the exact same place when traversing. I need to go back and in the middle of those mountains, just like everyone else

[opaque vine]

The thing is it can’t hunt a teno. It’s not fast enough to chase and a cerato should absolutely be able to make a teno vomit in one fully charged bite. If you don’t want to vomit then simply don’t fight it

[golden coral]

Speed mutations would change that though

[opaque vine]

True but that’s a mutation problem. Not exactly a cerato one

[distant torrent]

it’s basically the same speed and once it vomits, there’s no running away even if you get a stun on it to get it off of your tail because the vomit takes a chunk of your stam (correct me if that’s wrong this update because in the last updates, vomits annihilated my stam. also correct me if cera still won’t have enough stam to chase the teno down after a vomit)

cera needs to punish people for trying to take their deceased trash. allowing it to immediately vomit without a body kinda makes it an excellent ambush hunter against teno

sneak up, get a charge bite in, boom. it’s not getting away. it’s especially not getting away if you have a buddy. if you have more than one buddy, that thing is utter toast

[opaque vine]

You’re still faster. Unless the cerato is up your tail and you got ambushed by it somehow you should be good

Just avoid it, they can’t run you down

[distant torrent]

cera, a 1300kg scavenger, has no business going near a 1600kg angry brawling herbivore

if the cera has a body, that’s another story

[opaque vine]

Ambusher? I don’t think cerato is an excellent ambusher with its loud charges lol

[distant torrent]

you’d be surprised lol

[opaque vine]

Cerato is also a brawler but prefers to eat rotten meat as it’s more beneficial to it lol. Also weighting less dosent make something inherently inferior

[opaque vine]

If a teno gets ambushed by a cerato that’s on them

[distant torrent]

it’s a body defender brawler

[opaque vine]

Yea it punches up when it has a corpse but it can defend itself against things in its own tier without a body

[distant torrent]

don’t have a body, then stay away from the large angry herbivore with giant claws and a powerful horse kick

[opaque vine]

Realistically speaking, tenos kick shouldn’t be doing what it does and it’s no where near a horse anatomically speaking. My point is that it’s the teno that should be staying away from the cerato not the other way around. Tenonto has multiple ways to evade it so I don’t see a problem with cerato being able to make it puke with a charged bite

[golden coral]

True enough, so I'll agree overall, charged bite should also be rather obvious to see and react to.

[keen plover]

Their speed and stamina isn’t too different tbf

[golden coral]

With that said, bile is somewhat powerful currently, could do with a nerf

[keen plover]

I think they should remove the speed mutations and lower ceratos speed if they want it to be like this

[distant torrent]

realism is never a good argument

but we disagree and that’s fine. I personally feel like cera should be staying far away from teno unless it has a body, then it has all right to punish a teno for trying to mess with it

[opaque vine]

True but teno has one of the best trotts so if both let’s say run out the cera won’t be able to catch it

[golden coral]

Downsize teno, make it semiaquatic, adjust cera bile for that!

[opaque vine]

True, was just pointing out a common misconception

[keen plover]

You don’t need to downsize it for that tbf

[golden coral]

True, but I also think we should downsize stego so it can maybe be less clunky

[distant torrent]

(or maybe we can stop balancing large herbivores with clunkiness)

[golden coral]

Ideally, but in case we can't, downsize stego to 3T, lower damage by quite a lot, and just remove cooldowns/excessive stamina cost and make the jab good all over

[distant torrent]

deino mains will rejoice

[tropic horizon]

Just don't balance things in general with that

[golden coral]

I'm fine with that if I can get a stego that feels and functions good

[distant torrent]

I wish

[dusky surge]

I feel like at that point it really should be replaced with kentro

[glossy elbow]

Being clunky is fine as long as you're strong enough to warrant the clunkiness.

[golden coral]

Kentro would still be way smaller

[golden coral]

Can't agree, clunky just makes things feel terrible to handle, no matter the strength. Leave that for AI if things need to be clunky.

[dusky surge]

@analog mirage carno gets a 20% speedboost while charging. 55.6km/hr would let it move nearly 70km/hr

[clever valley]

what do we think of #balance-feedback message

[analog mirage]

Forgot about this, Charge shouldnt give a speed boost either

I'd rather it just be fast than a funny speed boost to encourage me MORE to charge

[clever valley]

anyone wana talk about hypsi spit aim noise/visual?

[glossy elbow]

Maybe stego just needs more agility when fighting rather then sizing it down?

[golden coral]

Well yes, but in order to get that, it would probably need a nerf to weight and damage and all

[glossy elbow]

Maybe a slight one like carno? I'd be fine with that

[clever valley]

it doesnt need more agility, just dont fall for fake attacks

[golden coral]

Maybe, but it doesn't really solve the issue, it's a matter of how it feels and handles, and things being clunky just does not make for engaging or fun gameplay

[golden coral]

That's not the issue, no matter if you fall for a fake attack/bait or not, does not change if something is clunky and does not handle well or not

[glossy elbow]

But stego is naturally clunky?

[golden coral]

Why would it be? Is there a natural case for a cooldown? Is there a natural case for why an attack need to be so slow/have so much lag that it just locks you in place?

Being slow is fine, being clunky is not, there's a difference there

[leaden remnant]

clunky means that it doesn't work as it should, that controls overlap with each other, that the outcome doesn't match what you pressed, etc

[dusky surge]

There's a difference between clunky and slow

[leaden remnant]

basically disfunctional

[glossy elbow]

Yeah idk why it has a cooldown should be in faster with attacking in all aspects

[dusky surge]

Nothing, in any game, should feel clunky

[glossy elbow]

Yeah

[dusky surge]

Feeling slow is fine

[glossy elbow]

Without nerfing it's weight by a large amount

[dusky surge]

Good game design should have all creatures feel satisfying, even if they are slow, fast, weak or strong

[glossy elbow]

Just unnerf stego and it'll be fine

I think

[golden coral]

Side jab angle is fine in speed, it's not a fast attack, it's not slow, it's you know, normal. Then you have the front/rear angles that are just very slow, which combined with you being locked in place due to no moving attack, makes it clunky. If all jab angles were the same speed as the side jab, they'd all feel equally good to use, and it wouldn't be a matter of if you use anything but the specific side angle, you're only punishing yourself. And the cooldown on the swing is just artificial clunkyness, like all cooldowns really (and I am not a fan of any of them to be honest, but at least things like diablo, even dryo, have multiple, so they can use it in succession if the situation allows/demands it. Though I will say, dryo dodge feels terrible too, not sure why it only has 2 dodges and why they regen so slow, it is not fun either.)

[burnt cloud]

Are you sped they hunt us and ruining our diets in 2 normal bites is crazy did I mention Charged bites too 🙏 averag carnivore player type shi

[dusky surge]

Unironically, yea, it would be, with some QoL changes thrown on top

[golden coral]

I don't want it nerfed, I just think it'd be a compromise

Since people are convinced that if stego wasn't clunky, it'd be unhuntable or something, so

[dusky surge]

That's because stego exists in a vacuum

[glossy elbow]

There's nothing that can hunt stego rn besides deino

And other stegos

[dusky surge]

That's just not true tbh

[golden coral]

Hence, nerfing it in return for adjusting the jabs, and removing the cooldown (and maybe adjust stam a bit, and remove the tactile endurance mut) might go over better

[glossy elbow]

Maybe dibble can kill it idk what else

At full growth at least

[glossy elbow]

Yeah

[golden coral]

Omnis can, troodons apparently can, diablo can, teno can, deino can, carno most likely can too, dilo can, and so on, cera can too

Most of the time, stego relies on using terrain, mostly due to said clunkyness being a thing

[glossy elbow]

That's not good lol

[leaden remnant]

um

[clever valley]

all the things you speak of would be solved by rex and trike entering the battle

[golden coral]

How so?

[opaque vine]

Don’t call me sped, I’m warning u. If that’s the case then that’s stupid. But I still hold on to the opinion that it should make tenos puke in a fully charged bite

[leaden remnant]

everything besides a ton of raptors, expert troodon gang and dibbles dies miserably to stegos

[golden coral]

It tends to be a matter of, if you rely on your own ability as stego, you die. If you put your head in a corner, you're almost invincible. Which makes for rather boring engagements, one or the other way

[clever valley]

for one thing, rex and trike are apexes yes? that means that stego would be both nerfed and buffed simply from them existing

rex also has bone break

[burnt cloud]

I wasn’t talking about charged bite was I like bro please don’t reply to me on a off topic, topic

[golden coral]

How would it be nerfed and buffed? And yes, they're considered proper apexes, so they'll just be outright more powerful than stego

[glossy elbow]

Possibly

[golden coral]

Not sure how that helps stego

[dusky surge]

why? it's so broken and goes against exactly what the devs said was intended for cera

[glossy elbow]

Stego would still be clunky even with buffed stats

[dusky surge]

says who?

[opaque vine]

How exactly does it go against ceratos intended style

[golden coral]

Cera vomit, dilo hallucinations, and you don't need that many troodons or omnis even, even less so now with terrain negating and troodon buffs. Carno can probs use accel + bite on head, though it is more dangerous for them now being smaller

[clever valley]

it would be nerfed because trike and rex could kill it, but buffed by the fact that it is pretty much a pseudo apex, that rex and trike would have to pull off an even fight with

[clever valley]

says common sense

[leaden remnant]

i mean yeah but just swing em and it's joever

[dusky surge]

it is literally meant to be worse against creatures larger thani t

[golden coral]

Don't think it'll be an even fight, rex and trike are meant to be way more powerful

[leaden remnant]

dilo hallucinations... sure, but that's if they can get a hit on you with their awful agility

[clever valley]

they said steg would put up a fight against rex

[golden coral]

And thus we're back to the issue of clunkyness and if you need to sit in terrain or not

[dusky surge]

common sense also dictates stego shouldn't be exhausted from doing the one thing the entire animal is built to do, but such things surprise us

[glossy elbow]

Yup

[golden coral]

You can put up a fight and still just die no matter what you do

[leaden remnant]

i mean... we're never gonna get rid of using terrain to win

[dusky surge]

nor should we

[leaden remnant]

but yeah it is unfun

[clever valley]

well then its skill level

[golden coral]

And the whole rex not just outright killing stego or how the answer went, doesn't mean much

Since we don't know what exactly was meant by it

[leaden remnant]

and yea it's clunky as heck, but even then, i don't find it difficult to get rid of things like dilos, carnos, ceras, etcetera as one

[dusky surge]

cerato is also just not at all meant to be a hunter

[golden coral]

Moving slots for pounce helps, so there is that

[opaque vine]

It can’t really hunt tenos though, there’s no reason for cerato to be weak against it just because it’s slightly smaller

[leaden remnant]

buck as well

[burnt cloud]

Don’t ping me again 🙏💀

[golden coral]

Right, I barely consider that with how RNG it is. Can go either way, really

[clever valley]

Deino's alt attack also happens to stun stegs

[leaden remnant]

but yeah bucking is really sub par

ive seen that it costs the same stam just for an rng chance of getting the raptor off

absolute gaming

[golden coral]

No doubt, I've never claimed stego is unviable or can't fight, just that it's clunky, handles badly and feels badly to engage in combat with

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, it does cost stam to buck, right?

I've heard either, so wasn't sure

[dusky surge]

there is a reason, it's called being a balanced animal. Instapuking tenonto just means it's insanely broken.

Instapuking dilo is fine, but teno is way too much overscaling

[opaque vine]

How come? You can prevent it from happening by not playing around with it

[opaque vine]

I don’t see how it’s broken. Against dibbles sure but not tenos

[dusky surge]

it's broken against both

there is zero justifiable reason for it to instapuke teno

[glossy elbow]

Teno is quite a bit bigger than cera right?

[dusky surge]

yup

[opaque vine]

There is. You’re acting as if cerato is faster and oppressive against tenos. You shouldn’t even be finding yourself in that situation unless you deliberately put yourself in it

[dusky surge]

small tiers instapuking is fine because they're small tiers

[opaque vine]

By 300 kgs

[dusky surge]

explain one good reason to why it should be that way rather than "tenonto is literally .1km/hr faster therefor should avoid cerato at all times like the black plague"

helpless to the mighty scavenger bully, as it is a mesely herbivore

it should lose all nutrition for daring to be in its divine presence

not even carno should be getting instapuked, let alone teno

[burnt cloud]

Speaking the truth rn

[opaque vine]

You have many ways to evade it, not just with speed. You’re basically asking me why tenos can’t fight them without suffering serious consequences lol, if you play around then you absolutely deserve to puke

[dusky surge]

they should suffer serious consequences, but not on the FIRST BITE

you're acting like every fight with a cera and a tenonto is determined by the first attack which is absurd

[opaque vine]

Of course. All I’m saying is that a fullly charged bite should make them puke

[dusky surge]

you have yet to give me one good reason as to why cerato should be able to do this

what does it benefit for its kit

[dusky surge]

also shouldn't make them puke

besides the fantasy of just ruining a teno's day i guess

and being insufferable for most creatures to engage with

you know, like it is now

[opaque vine]

It makes tenos more wary of them. Like I said you shouldn’t even be finding yourself in that situation unless you put yourself in it

[burnt cloud]

Fr and it’s not like we engage them they actively hunt us

[dusky surge]

tenos would be wary of them without the insta charge puke

literally what are you on about

they do a ton of damage with charge bite, have a crazy good bite speed, and if the teno is slightly hungry, it will be puked

[regal tulip]

I literally have to waste a mutation spot on photo now just to be able to run away, that's not fun

[opaque vine]

Not really. A teno can kill a cerato in 2 combos. Takes less than 10 seconds

[dusky surge]

why does a 100% hunger teno need to be instapuked besides "it needs to be wary", which it already is

[regal tulip]

The teno can't combo when it's vomit locked

[opaque vine]

You’re faster without mutations?

[leaden remnant]

thing is tho, once something is bucked off a stego, it's game over

[dusky surge]

and you're slower if you don't take them

[regal tulip]

You act like every cera isn't running that mutation

[dusky surge]

justifying a lame-ass engagement being lame and ez for the cerato is just the height of boredom

[opaque vine]

Exactly! Without the insta puke tenos wouldn’t be so wary

[dusky surge]

they'd still be wary

[opaque vine]

No

[dusky surge]

THE HELL YOU MEAN NO

CERATO IS A NUKE ON LEGS LMAO

[regal tulip]

? Teno can't even fight back how is that balanced

[opaque vine]

You’re justifying tenos not suffering serious consequences all because they wanted to pvp and fight a cerato.

[opaque vine]

Run

[dusky surge]

THE CONSEQUENCES ARE STIL THERE

JUST NOT ON ONE/TWO BITES LMAO

[opaque vine]

Regular bites should never insta puke what u on about

[dusky surge]

I suppose stego should also instapuke as it is not yet wary enough of cerato

[dusky surge]

they do for smaller animals

[glossy elbow]

Being able to puke anything is insanely strong just because it drains basically everything including stam

[dusky surge]

and they instapuke tenos if teno is hungry

[opaque vine]

No, stegos are slower and don’t have ways to evade it unlike tenos. Horrible comparison

[regal tulip]

Yeah the brawler of the isle has to now run like a chicken from the scavenger, nice

[opaque vine]

Cerato is also a brawler?

[dusky surge]

so teno should lose because it's simply an inferior brawler

should've picked a REAL brawler, like cerato

[leaden remnant]

it's a scavenger with the ability to fend off things from corpses

[dusky surge]

not a fake brawler, like teno

[opaque vine]

You don’t need to brawl it though

[regal tulip]

Yeah I cant

[leaden remnant]

somehwat weak when not around corpses, really strong when near corpses

[dusky surge]

Because of the instapuke

[leaden remnant]

... which is not the case rn

[opaque vine]

No, it’s a brawler that prefers to eat rotten stuff as it’s more beneficial to it

[leaden remnant]

no sir

that is incorrect

[opaque vine]

Also it’s too slow to hunt so there’s that

[dusky surge]

it's also not that either

it's quite rapid given its niche

[leaden remnant]

around corpses = strong as heck

[dusky surge]

and it has instapuke, allowing animals to simply slow down and permit more bires

[leaden remnant]

not around corpses = also strong as hell cause instapuke moment

[opaque vine]

No, my point is that you don’t need to fight it

[leaden remnant]

which gives you an issue to take care of for hours

[leaden remnant]

unkillable then

should be able to die if you get waht i mean

[dusky surge]

so, as a tenonto, i should cower in fear at the animal smaller than me because it has an overpowered mechanic to instantly ruin my day

awesomesauce

[regal tulip]

And that is bs, cera is literally what a Rex would be, only counter play is to avoid it

[dusky surge]

and if the cerato ambushes me, my diet is immediately ruined because haha two bites = puke

shouldn't have played tenonto i guess 😔

[opaque vine]

It’s supposed to punch up a bit with corpses. It shouldn’t be helpless without iy