balance-feedback-discussion

[slim dragon]

It's less a buff than removing that awful clunkiness most herbivores seem to have to be faced with

[opaque vine]

Yea pounce to pin is a problem itself can’t lie

[dusky surge]

pachy needs buffs irregardless. It should not be forced to trade with the animal it NEEDS to hit to escape (carno)

[opaque vine]

Most herbivores?

[slim dragon]

Pachy, stego, hypsi, and teno with its tailslam (although to a lesser extent)

[tropic horizon]

Id rather it just have the whole stun upon a fracture that’s been suggested oh so many times so it can’t stunlock but wont trade for landing its ability properly

[opaque vine]

Use the kicks on teno, they’re stronger and have the stuns then

[opaque vine]

It being clunky is kinda fair for the little stamina it takes imo

[tropic horizon]

That’s pretty much the only buff Pachy needs imo along with making its attacks feel less clunky Pachy is in such a poor spot atm mainly because almost everything else is godlike

[slim dragon]

And cope with the fact teno has an attack that should never be used because there's a plain better alternative ?

[opaque vine]

.

Wait wrong one

[dusky surge]

it takes the most stamina out of any of teno's attacks, and is the most clunky by a mile

it doesn't even do nearly the most damage

[tropic horizon]

Teno’s tail slam kinda servers a niche in stunning larger creatures from longer ranges but I feel like it shouldn’t really have to rely on solely one or the other

[opaque vine]

No the tail slam is also useful. It’s got a long range and little to no stamina usage. Why in the world would you want it to not be clunky

Honestly teno is in a good spot, why complain

[slim dragon]

Because making an attack clunky is not a warranted nerf to an animal's strength, it's a nerf to its playability and quality of life

[tropic horizon]

Im more of the opinion that it could use like, a slight damage buff so it has more use but I don’t want the tail slam to be outright better than the kick or the kick to be better than the tail slam

[dusky surge]

Literally just making the tailslam have no attack lockout would make it fine

its just gross that it has the lockout. no creature should have that lockout

[opaque vine]

It’s got a long range and can controll the directions. Making it less “clunky” would make tenos harder to beat than they already are

[tropic horizon]

Wait you mean like no recovery time after using it? I think that is slightly overturned if ima be honest because then teno has almost no openings to punish a miss and then land a hit unless you’re playing with like 2 other people.

[slim dragon]

Yeah, whatever, just nerf them somewhere else
But don't ever nerf a playable by making it clunky, that's stupid

[dusky surge]

^

[regal tulip]

give pachy stun on fracture but remove the alt bite disable from fractures

[dusky surge]

never sacrifice QoL for balance

[tropic horizon]

Although that weird attack cooldown might be what you’re referring to come to think of it

[opaque vine]

The clunkiness is a trade off for the range it got. Getting instantly sniped 5 meters away would make it unfair

[dusky surge]

Yea, that's not how it works

[slim dragon]

clunkiness is NOT a tradeoff
It's anti-game design

[dusky surge]

You NEVER make a playable FEEL BAD to balance it

[slim dragon]

game antidesign

[dusky surge]

Game Design 101

Tweak numbers, sure, but do not make its kit unsatisfying

[opaque vine]

Yea obviously, I meant that the animation lock is necessary, should be a punishment

[dusky surge]

Engagement derives from the player's enjoyment. If a kit is fun to use, even if it's weak, people will use it.

[opaque vine]

Kinda like how Omni was in the past

[dusky surge]

It is not necessary, at all, especially for an animal advertised to combo

[dusky surge]

And they REMOVED THAT

Why? Because they realised animation locks suck

[opaque vine]

Omnis don’t got the HP to take that. The animation lock was literally a death sentence, teno is diffrent

[dusky surge]

Literally it is hypocritical to have these things apply to pachy and teno, but not omni and troodon, despite the fact that these balance changes were made because of those creatures feeling bad by being locked by their own abilities

[opaque vine]

It can combo. 2 kicks take a way half of a ceratos HP and you want it buffed lol

[dusky surge]

Teno is literally the "combo animal", so it's actually worse that teno has it, because it was designed to combo its attacks into each other

[dusky surge]

It's supposed to be able to chain different attacks into each other

[slim dragon]

(we were talking about pachy initially, who suffers from the same animation lock and has basically the same amount of HP omni has)

[dusky surge]

That was a huge draw to its combat style

Also, I do not want its kicks buffed, I just want the slight animation lockout that leaves it entirely vulnerable for using one of its weakest attacks removed

[slim dragon]

Apart that Omni never suffered from animation lock after landing its ability, pachy does

[opaque vine]

Pachy dosent have a multipler which makes a significant difference

[slim dragon]

Oh and there's also another thing that is extremely annoying with pachy's ram
You can't charge it when moving backwards
For absolutely no reason

[dusky surge]

Cerato can

Stego can

Pachy just doesn't get that QoL I guess

[opaque vine]

It shouldn’t tho. Missing a long range attack like that should be punishable. Honestly teno is already pretty strong as it is. Last thing it needs is a buff

[slim dragon]

herbivore moment

[dusky surge]

It's not a buff. It's a QoL change

[opaque vine]

Let’s not forget about ceratos charged bite here. It was clunky for like a year.

[dusky surge]

And now it's not

Pachy has been clunky for longer, and still remains clunky

[slim dragon]

But it no longer is

[opaque vine]

It kinda acts as an buff tho. They wouldn’t be punished for missing it

[dusky surge]

In fact, cerato's charge bite has ALWAYS been better off than pachy's ram, and yet it got "unclunked" first

[dusky surge]

They would by losing stamina and still having the recovery animation

Just not the complete lockout where it SHOULD be able to attack, but can't

[opaque vine]

Yup because cerato is a brawler. Wanna hop on and see if pachy is that bad?

[dusky surge]

Pachy is also a brawler

In fact, pachy was introduced as the small-game brawler bully

Hence its low speed and hard-hitting attacks

[opaque vine]

Oh you mean it like that, fair enough ig. As long as they’re properly punished for a miss

[dusky surge]

I have no problem with the recovery animation

[opaque vine]

Yea and they bully dilos and omnis just fine?

[dusky surge]

I'd say they underperform in that field

[opaque vine]

My bad lol, thought u had a problem with it

[dusky surge]

I have an issue where, after the tailslam, you are not in an animation, and you can walk around fine, but you CAN'T attack or do anything

It's a complete lock on your animal that has no visual indication

It acts as if you would be able to attack, but you can't

[opaque vine]

Not at all. They can render dilos and omnis useless in one hit, they also got good agility except for when rearing up.

[opaque vine]

I see

[dusky surge]

I still think they do far too little damage and suffer hard when even 2 see it, despite the fact it was built to fight them off

[regal tulip]

something inflicting bonebreak should not deal a huge amount of damage imo

[opaque vine]

They one tap a herrera on the head, they 3 shot a omni and they can throw dilos around like nothing lol

[opaque vine]

^ you have the ability to completely invalidate your opponent. Why increase the damadge lol

[dusky surge]

They should one-tap a herrera to a body on full charge tbh

The damage has been nerfed SO many times for pachy

[opaque vine]

It makes no diffrence tho. After the first hit the Herrera is as good as dead

[regal tulip]

yeah because an animal with bonebreak is impossible to balance

[dusky surge]

Not at all

[regal tulip]

even with 0 damage it would be annoying af

[opaque vine]

Tbh if you can’t beat a omni that’s not the playables fault. It can deals with them just fine

[dusky surge]

i assume that's why they nerfed the damage so many times

[opaque vine]

Let me get this straight. You think that pachys struggles against things it’s own size when it comes down to a 1v1

[dusky surge]

i think that it struggles more than it arguably should

[tropic horizon]

Pachy honestly has fine damage vs Omni but doing the math now with a damage reducing mutation active the amount of rams it takes to kill an omni as pachy jumps from 4 to 5 which is a little silly though this is more so a result of bad mutation balance than anything

[opaque vine]

It can render things useless in one hit and 4 tap an omni. How is pachy underperforming lol

[opaque vine]

True but even then it’s not THAT bad imo. It just requires you to hit a target that can’t move or defend itself 2 extra times🤷‍♂️

But I agree that mutation is just bad

[dusky surge]

I think a pachy needing to hit omni 4 times, given its attacks, is underperforming.

I would argue that rather than a max damage of 125, I'd like to see 150 or even 175 damage. Not so much that, y'know, it's nuking big boys, but enough that smaller targets like dilo fear it

I don't think it should take as many hits as it does to kill a dilo

[tropic horizon]

Dilo is Pachy’s punching bag atm though. Like it is a very bad matchup for the dilo. It’s relatively unagile, is pretty easy to hit, and doesn’t have a good tool to deal with pachy all too well.

[opaque vine]

Pachies are already feared tho. No one takes them in an one on one. 175 damadge is just ridiculous. Where is the harm in needing to kill something in more than 2 hits. God forbid that pachies need more effort in their already low effort and high reward type attack.

[dusky surge]

Sure, I like that, but the amount of effort required to dispatch of smaller animals I think is too much. Pachy should hit significantly hard enough to worry them

I'd also like if the "coconut cracker" move, where it swings its head downwards, gets a COLOSSAL damage buff, perhaps to 250-300. Due to the fact that it relies on the animal already being stationary due to poor range and a small hitbox, it'd make for an excellent finisher on downed targets, which honestly would also be fine by me

[opaque vine]

I think that this is my cue to leave

[slim dragon]

You consider that OP ?

[regal tulip]

can herrera even climb with broken bones?

[opaque vine]

Unnecessary change more so

[opaque vine]

Pachy is not underperforming at all

Atleast when it comes to things around it’s size

[slim dragon]

Makes pachy capable of killing things its own size and smaller, without having to rely on a massive damage buff to its ram

[cosmic pelican]

It can yeah, except with a broken leg

[opaque vine]

Like I previously said. Pachy can render opponents useless with the tap of a button. Is it really too much to ask that they need 3 hits to kill an omni

[regal tulip]

might aswell add critical damage and internal bleeding to hitting fractured body parts

ngl would be cool as the pachy but yeah

[dusky surge]

When it's underperforming to the point that it is more endangered than dryos? Yea, I would say so

[opaque vine]

Hop on and 1v1 me

Dryos u say lmfao

[tropic horizon]

Oh boy

[opaque vine]

My bad but that’s stretching it

Stating that pachies aren’t a threat to dilos and such is a straight up lie

[dusky surge]

When did I say that

[cosmic pelican]

The last time I saw, or heard a dryo was a month ago. And it was a fresh spawn trying to die haha

[tropic horizon]

Dryo isn’t really played not because it’s bad moreso because it’s boring to most

[opaque vine]

dibble is a new playable ofc pachies aren’t gonna be as common. Not only that but it’s spawn points are away from the hotspots

[dusky surge]

i've been feeling for a while that dilo, carno and pachy are the holy trio of "bad playables"

the fact that we're seeing a rework for carno means the other two should absolutely follow suit

[tropic horizon]

I feel like they’re more so the holy trinity of “Good lord these things are a pain to balance and you can see that evidently throughout their history in the game”

[regal tulip]

literally + stun on fracture - alt bite disable on being fractured = perfect

[opaque vine]

Does alt attacks do fractures I forgot

[tropic horizon]

No

[regal tulip]

no i meant that i cant alt bite while being fractured

[opaque vine]

I see

[leaden remnant]

small issue

it wouldnt do anything

it would be the exact same thing as update 6 pachy

good luck alt biting a pachy that's stunning you

any sort of stun for pachy is a terrible idea

even limited stuns are terrible

grants you a free hit without consequences

and then proceed to beat the absolute crap outta that person while he can do little about it

[regal tulip]

max 3 stuns is better than unlimited stuns

[leaden remnant]

it def is but it's also a horrible idea

3 stuns alone would let you solo a carno

begin with a very nice body or leg fracture

after that, head fracture

and after you get a head fracture simply get another

the carno will be miserable after that, so now keep going

[dusky surge]

of course, that's bad on pachy specifically

fine on the other creatures with stuns

[leaden remnant]

you acting like all the attacks are the same, work the same, and deliver the same thing

very stupid if you ask me

[dusky surge]

oh yea sorry

[leaden remnant]

not you but the idea that every attack is the same

[dusky surge]

those attacks can stun consistently

[leaden remnant]

they dont fracture

[dusky surge]

pachy can only stun if it hits 3 specific parts of the body in this hypothetical

[leaden remnant]

thats the thing

[dusky surge]

no, they do far more damage and bleed though

[leaden remnant]

it's either fractures or stuns, cant have both or chaos is guaranteed

[dusky surge]

we literally have both

[leaden remnant]

yea but again pachy has fractures

[leaden remnant]

i mean either have fractures only on pachy or stuns only

[dusky surge]

so you wanna nerf pachy further?

[leaden remnant]

having both is guaranteed chaos

[leaden remnant]

nerf pachy further? it's the state it's currently in

[dusky surge]

pachy has stuns, brother

it has knockdowns even

[leaden remnant]

im talking about big things

if you hit a raptor throw him onto the ground i dont care

[dusky surge]

letting it have a very limited amount of stuns on the few animals it can consistently fracture is fine

[leaden remnant]

makes sense that you can

[leaden remnant]

no it aint

it absolutely aint fine to let it stun a carno

a dilo? sure

a raptor? absolutely

but a cera or a carno? absolutely not

[dusky surge]

carnos worked around it when it could stun them consistently. i'm asking for stuns that are far more moderated

[leaden remnant]

just cause they worked around it, it doesnt mean it's balanced or logical to give it

ppl adapt

but again, just cause they can adapt, it doesnt mean it's fine

if a pachy stuns a carno... damn

we got a big big issue here

cause woo update 6 pachy back 🔥

[dusky surge]

if raptor can work to stunlock a cerato for 10 seconds with no trades, much higher damage and a metric ton of bleed, pachy can have 3 stuns for being a good boy this year :)

[dusky surge]

they are nothing alike

[leaden remnant]

stunlock a cera? how does that work

also we talking about pachy not raptor

[dusky surge]

i wonder what a raptor can do to entire immobilise a cerato

[dusky surge]

yea, the weak one vs the actually good one

[leaden remnant]

are you able to get on rn

[dusky surge]

no.

[leaden remnant]

alr

[leaden remnant]

pachy isnt weak

it's clunky as absolute living hell

and yes raptors are very strong rn

[dusky surge]

in addition to being weak than most of the roster

[leaden remnant]

not weak

[dusky surge]

yes weak

[leaden remnant]

clunky as absolute hell

[dusky surge]

and weak

i hope they fix both of these issues

[leaden remnant]

with fractures available, it's straight up a nuh uh

[dusky surge]

so fractures are good

its still weak though

[leaden remnant]

yea hol on lemme just disable this cera real quick

pachy is truly the rmb gaming

lemme hold rmb for 2 secs and disable this cera for a nice amount of time

[leaden remnant]

certain things about pachy are ass

ill give that to you

[dusky surge]

oh, like raptor! or deino! or herrera! or stego! or most of the roster!

who cares if they're "RMB gaming", that's the game

[leaden remnant]

im not complaining about it being rmb gaming

i am merely stating it is rmb gaming, and, you say it well, as most of the playables

[leaden remnant]

trot speed for example, feels like a walk speed

[dusky surge]

also the idea that the 3 stagger system would NEARLY be as bad as U6 is laughable

[leaden remnant]

lemme just get a leg fracture and 2 head bonks real quick

if it can stun the carno, it's joever

[dusky surge]

no it isn't?

[leaden remnant]

yeah it is

half the bite force, crap ton of damage to the face

now proceed to obliterate the carno while he tries to somehow defend himself

[dusky surge]

unlike U6, you need to actually aim for vulnerable body parts, you can't rely on it because you HAVE to fracture those parts to stun, meaning carnos and ceras can still just hit you if you mess up, and you can't keep stunning them to death, they can trade

[dusky surge]

stuns literally don't matter in that scenario

its the fracture that matters

you realise how short pachy's old stun was, right? It was just barely long enough for you to turn around and get out of trade range. That's it. You aren't locked in place, the stun takes barely more than a second

[leaden remnant]

im aware, but im merely saying that the stuns would give it a massive upper hand to, in the first three hits, be able to fracture as you'd like

[dusky surge]

not really, no. you'd be able to fracture one thing, then back off

[leaden remnant]

really depends on what and who you're dealing with

right now you're able to fracture and run

[dusky surge]

With a trade

[leaden remnant]

not an issue

[dusky surge]

Yes an issue

[leaden remnant]

get hit once, end the fight in a second

[leaden remnant]

can you logically support why it's a bad issue

cause im realizing we're just going around doing circles

saying nothing but "yuh uh nuh uh yuh uh nuh uh yuh uh"

[dusky surge]

because if its ONLY THING is fracturing and making a getaway, why should it also be damaged for that where now it's trackable via bleed and needs to rest sooner

Or worse yet, is forced to defend itself against a speed mutation cera because it can't run, then because it's hungry, pukes on the cera bite, meaning it gets killed

[leaden remnant]

speed mutation is balls

straight up balls

[leaden remnant]

it should have to trade because, if not, it would be able to get free, cheap kills on everything

[dusky surge]

given the amount of damage it does, and the fact part of the suggestion was allowing alt-bites while leg fractures, the fractured thing would be fine

[leaden remnant]

it would apply fractures and stuns, which are awfully dangerous, without any cost or concern

body damage isnt that crazy yknow, it's bad for raptors n dilos but for bigger things ain't that crazy, however headshot damage is damn good

specially if we're talking about a fully charged bonk

that's a crap ton of damage

[dusky surge]

Headshot damage is the same as any other attack with the same damage hitting the head

[leaden remnant]

alt bites with leg fractures ain't a bad idea, however, if stuns were available for pachy, it would be useless

it wouldnt allow you to defend yourself better than you can right now

[dusky surge]

In fact, a fully charged headbonk still does less than a cera regular LMB to the head

[leaden remnant]

it's got a weird multiplier

[dusky surge]

It does not

[leaden remnant]

yeah it does

seen it myself with stats

[dusky surge]

yea but that's not how the game works

attacks do not have unique modifiers, limbs do

[leaden remnant]

im aware

however what you said is wrong

it's not only the headshot multiplier that you normally have

it's got another thing that makes it deal 3-4 times more damage than a body bonk

i believe you said that a body bonk does about 85 damage right?

[dusky surge]

on uncharged

[leaden remnant]

a fully charged head bonk to a raptor puts you to either red or deep orange, cant recall

an uncharged bonk to the head of a raptor puts the raptor at about 56% hp

so theres clearly something going on that allows pachies to deal a crap ton more damage to the face than anything else

thats why i dont like any sort of stuns for pachy

if you are able to do so much damage with a single bonk, i see little reason to allow you to also stun

[tight cove]

Like other ppl were saying before me I just don’t like how clunky pachy feels also keep in mind that cerato for example most of the time can easily dodge a pachy hit and it has natural fracture resistance, and finally a pachy can handle a Omni or a dilo in a 1v1 situation but a Omni or a dilo can also 1v1 a pachy pretty well if they know what there doing but I guess that just comes down to skill.

[opaque vine]

Pretty much

[opaque vine]

@hollow comet #balance-feedback message Herrera is like 4x pt’s weight. Not some small juvi

[hollow comet]

What does weight have to do with anything? It doesn't diminish the fact Ptera should be able to do decent damage to things of similar size and fly consistently.

In the grand scheme of things Herrera is still a SMALL playable. If I'm remembering the isle's size scaling correctly, they are almost on par in size with Dryo and Ptera itself and should be something that a Ptera should be able to contend with.

Besides other Herrera that decide to be cannibalistic, or them themselves making a questionable pounce... Ptera is the only thing that could pose a threat to an otherwise essentially invulnerable playable when not grounded.

Yet the thing with a beak the size of a short sword hits like a pool noodle and can only stay airborne for long stints if you're only gliding around in circles like an Ai seagull.

*Edit wording

[opaque vine]

“Pt should be able to do damadge to do decent damadge to this things similar of size” problem here is that herrera isn’t close to its size at all. Besides they function as a prey item for herreras not the other way around. The trees are supposed to function as a temporary safe spot, their hunger and water drain is ridiculously fast so they can’t stay up there for too long anyway.

Giving a immortal flier this kinda power is not it, they’re the easiest playables to survive with, sure allow them to kill juvis but no bigger than that imo

[tardy wind]

@tulip vale in regards to your post on balance feedback, I had the same thing happen when I played Pachy. I filled my stomach completely and only had 79% of my diets. Glad to see I’m not the only one but it’s very strange that they went and changed the values for some reason

[dusky surge]

I think people misconstrue carnivore as "hunter killer animal" which is just not the case universally

Ptera is a fisher/scavenger that's made of literal paper, and has unmatched mobility. Giving it the power to punch up to herrera size would make it way too good

[opaque vine]

Agreed

[dusky surge]

I agree that ptera is underwhelming though

Which is why I'm excited for the coming "terrestrial ptera" changes

[opaque vine]

Same, they’re finally gonna be more interactive with the rest of the playables

[jovial vessel]

ptera needs some more love, I think its stam issue is why people dont play the poor bird

[frank grotto]

We need lacational spawning pls

[dusky surge]

hmmm

nah

[frank grotto]

Why?

[dusky surge]

Because hotspots thrived off the spawn selection. While I am in agreement that it makes friends WAY harder to group with, I don't want spawn select back, I would rather an alternative system that maintains random spawns

[frank grotto]

Great now i can walk 2 hours straight to find my friend

[dusky surge]

literally adding a party system would fix that entirely

party up before spawning and spawn in the same place and group

[frank grotto]

Yeah great idea fr

Ty

[coarse blaze]

I really like random spawns, grouping issues aside.

• Players can't reply on spawning into areas where they know they'll find easy food and can remain for their entire growth. It also encourages players to learn the map a little more, I'm overall very happy with it.

Also feeding yourself your own corpse, or having someone feed you theirs is an issue that's no longer there with it.

[frank grotto]

Just add spawning cooldown

[coarse blaze]

We had that, that didn't fix any of those issues.

[dusky surge]

they did. it didn't work

[frank grotto]

Bc it was bugged

[coarse blaze]

I still fed myself my own body multiple times to get head-start because I could.

No it wasn't bugged, 10 minutes isn't that long either.

If I died and wanted to stay in a hotspot, I'd just wait again.

Things that there 10 minutes ago, will still more than likely be there once I'm able to spawn back in.

[dusky surge]

no? it worked fine. it just sucked at its job

[frank grotto]

Sometimes i had no cooldown

Sometimes i had

[coarse blaze]

I only had an issue with the cooldown when it came to unofficial servers.

I never didn't have a cooldown once it was put into place.

[frank grotto]

You dont see more of the map because you need to stay in the migration zone to survive

[coarse blaze]

That's not even true, partols allow herbivores to move more and carnivores don't ever need to move to survive given how AI seems to spawn.

Plus players have reported finding more diet food for herbivores outside of partols and MZs during the HT, a very nice surprise really.

[obtuse ocean]

As juvi when you spawn? Or you saying my whole group can run around to find something to fight. Then we log out and spawn in at the same place ?

[dusky surge]

what?

like, before you spawn, you can make a group and spawn in it

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but we spawn in random or we can choose area etc ?

[dusky surge]

random spawn

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, maybe. I hate it, cus it would make it alot easier for survival. I mean i could also just login logout until i got my preffered spot. Lets say i need food, so i just do it constantly until i end up in hotspot or close to one

[dusky surge]

what?

[obtuse ocean]

I mean if me and you are in a group, we login at same place. We dont like the place, we log out again. And then we spawn random again ?

Or is it something else you meaning

[dusky surge]

why would logging out change where you spawn

[obtuse ocean]

You said, party up before spawning and spawn in the same place and group

So if im at south and you are at north, where do we spawn in toghtere ?

[dusky surge]

then you don't get to do it if you're already spawned

you can only do it on the character select screen

[obtuse ocean]

ahh, yes then i get it. Fair

[onyx lichen]

@fathom yoke Wdym?

[fathom yoke]

So in HT, we had about 4 sub troos pounce this teen teno and the venom with the neww pounce seems lackluster from experience

[onyx lichen]

Tap Pounce?

[fathom yoke]

Nah the new pounce does continuous dmg

[mint star]

not for troodon

[onyx lichen]

Troodon need to tap pounce to level up the venom, you shouldn't stay latched until you have level 3 Venom

[onyx lichen]

Troodon now does damage while latched in Horde

[mint star]

HUH

[onyx lichen]

Yeah

[mint star]

https://tenor.com/view/king-kong-skull-island-2023-zoom-gif-11404728373382527620

[fathom yoke]

In hordetesting? I thought they added the new continouous damage while you pounce

I figured it was from Kougas video

[onyx lichen]

Yeah, but staying latched doesn't level up the venom

[fathom yoke]

So the optimal dmg is still tap pouncing then ?

[onyx lichen]

Yeah, but you can stay latched after you fully envenomate the target

[fathom yoke]

I see, didnt know

[onyx lichen]

Troodon has bigger issues tbh

[fathom yoke]

yeahhh, the venom fog addition is pretty nice tho but other than it's kinda lackluster x.x

[onyx lichen]

The Venom Fog is tbh the worst thing it got

[fathom yoke]

oh how so?

[onyx lichen]

Read #3 #balance-feedback message

[onyx lichen]

To sum it up, The fog feels unnecessary because it helps Troodon with something it is already very good at which is being evasive instead of giving it something to help with what it is having trouble with

[fathom yoke]

Yeah that's a valid take

Like maybe increasing the intensity of the fog since there's no hallucination or something newe

[onyx lichen]

Troodon needs something to help with one of its flaws being chasing, it doesn't need to be harder to see since it's already very hard to see

[slim dragon]

@steep echo It's not weight gain as a juvenile, omniraptor is just made of concrete

[fallow blaze]

What kind of adjustmens cerato got?

[jovial bough]

the bacteria bite effectiveness is based on the weight of the prey. so smaller prey puke quicker and bigger prey puke slower

[coarse blaze]

#balance-feedback message Carnivores can carry corpses that give far more food than a mango and even cannibalize party members mid-fight in or out of MZs but the moment herbivores do something slightly the same it's unfair?

The mutation in general is just strong, I dare say too strong.

[fallow blaze]

👍

[steep echo]

I think it applies to other dinosaurs, iirc deinosuchus starts at 40kg but is the smallest hatchling by size. It must be made of tungsten

[hasty coyote]

@feral hazel I agree with the premise of the feedback, but I do disagree with many of the examples you are using. Namely, ptera and hypsi.

Release ptera proves that this thing can be an absolute monster because it has debatably the most op ability in the game: Flight. Flight alone allows ptera to hit things without the target being able to fight back. So when ptera was first released and was overtuned, they were even able to kill stegos because all skill was solely on if the ptera knew how to fly well, not if the target could fight back. So they have had to nerf ptera pretty hard to make sure it can't just bully things who can't fight back. Granted, they have def nerfed ptera too hard with the stamina, but its kinda a pachy problem. They have 1 ability that removes counterplay so the rest of the animal needs to be weak to compensate. So I think the proposed idea of making ptera more terrestrial actually helps it immensely, because now they can actually buff it to be stronger than a wet tissue while still making it not able to bully things almost 100x its size.

Hypsi spit is also a bit weird. Being able to spit 15 times only helps with trolling and not survival (since if you need to spit more than like 3 times, you're likely already dead). Spit overall just needs adjustments that makes it better at actual defense and worse at just trolling. Namely: being easier to hit but not able to be used on large dinos (stuff like stego). Changes like this would actually make hypsi able to actually survive encounters easier and thus be more enjoyable. Hypsi needs to be actively worse at just trolling and much better at survival, otherwise it becomes a troll dino that people play for like 15 mins and drop.

However, I agree that a lot of these small dinos need better QOL to help them be enjoyable and don't require as strict balancing as many of the larger dinos. Though, they still need to be balanced to work with each other.

[feral hazel]

The Ptera part is a mistake of the design between Land vs Flyers, namely not having an upwards bite. Also the Stego example you mentioned was the result of not having an upwards attack and a massively overtuned damage. Ptera's should not be able to engage against anything that isn't a juvie or a small type of species. About Hypsi, the number 15 was just a random number, tho I disagree with the fact that if you spit more than 3 times you are likely dead or that it would turn it into complete trolling. You have many scenarios in this game where you could utilize more spitting. Aka "fighting" against multiple predators and trying to help your teammates/baby/family. Also I feel like Hypsi is a little bit made for trolling.

tho I understand where you coming from

thats why I mentioned having a DR effect on the spit

[hasty coyote]

The issue also arises with that, even with a vertical attack, many dinos would still have major blind spots. Like carno would have a hard time biting behind its legs unless the hitbox was absolutely wild. So overall, its easier to just make the 2 flying dinos unable to bully things while flying than balance a new attack on 60+ dinos that allows each of them to swat out a ptera. And by making ptera more terrestrial, it can pull a quetz and just land on the ground to maul a small juvie or fly to whittle down a fat juvie like diablo.

For hypsi in particular, I wasnt saying that spitting more than 3 times means its going to become a troll dino, I'm saying its generally not necessary for more than 3. Though I can def see hypsi having like 10 spits if its either on a cd like dryo dodge or if it burns all of its hunger spitting. But spit is def designed to have trolling potential, I just think it should be balanced as a survival tool first, and just also be allowed for minor trolling as a side effect.

[feral hazel]

If the upwards bite would have a modifier on them like "alt biting", you could easily make fitting and proper animations to cover most of your blind spots imo. But again, I understand where you coming from and you have a fair point.

I didn't wanted to really get into details, the real point of the post was just creatures that doesn't have much effect on the balance of the eco-system shouldn't be taken as seriously as others and have a little more room to make them fun in different ways

[opaque vine]

#balance-feedback message @dusky surge I think I’ve met your match

[dusky surge]

@frank grotto it isnt their weight. grapple is just extremely overpowered, so even if you were 50% larger than their combined weight, they'd still grapple you

[jovial vessel]

Grapple is overpowered, though I am looking forward to bucking being more consequential to omnis, since right now it feels like it just eats the victims stam only

[leaden remnant]

@frank grotto raptors just got nerfed

the pounce changes nerfed pounce by quite a lot and the bucking changes did as well

also as a 50% teno idk what you expected

what happened to you is totally normal, doesn't mean raptors need a nerf but you should know to fight back better/not walk around where raptors are

brb

[keen plover]

🤔 maybe for the raptors to work for the kill instead of just pouncing and winning

[dusky surge]

now, let's not be too bold

you're sounding like a herbivore player

[keen plover]

lol

[dusky surge]

i got grappled in a fight as a carno. i still got one of the raptors, but it's the antithesis of engagement. Over 15 long seconds of just waiting to be able to control my character

[keen plover]

Yeah it's very lame. It genuinely ruins the fun of playing most creatures solo. I think raptors should at minimum get a creature to half bleed / health and for the prey to be around a quarter stam to pin it. They should have to work for it a bit more than now.

[dusky surge]

agreed. the lack of any and all work required is baffling

65% weight requirement at base, healthy state is just bizarre

[keen plover]

Yep.

On the otherhand, I don't like the % dismount thing that raptor has now

I've noticed that sometimes, they stay on for a very long time. Other times they get off quickly

[dusky surge]

not a fan of chance-based mechanics either, but it is a testing value

[keen plover]

Yeah that's true

[royal beacon]

no way carno is 49 km on HT

a omni with the day mutation is 49,1

[leaden remnant]

herrera, dilo and deino enter the chat

[leaden remnant]

49.5

[leaden remnant]

and carno if he gets a knockdown

could add dibble when knocking down smth small, stego with a well landed swing/powerswing, etc

it all consists in seeing a mistake and getting a kill

[dusky surge]

you're equating short stuns to what raptor has

deino is the exception, obviously

[leaden remnant]

im stating dinos that dont need much to get a kill

[dusky surge]

but deino is environmentally dependent

[leaden remnant]

a dilo only needs 1 bite and no water sources near

a herrera, something below it

a carno, something small that it can knock down

a dibble, a well landed hit

a stego, a nice swing or a powerswing

and a raptor, one or more raptors pouncing something

we can't say "it requires no skill" when most things, if we were to say it, don't require any skill either

the fact that a raptor pin requires just a bit of teamwork already makes it more skill based than a dilo, herrera or deino, who need only 1 bite/jump/lunge

from what i can see, it looks like the devs are making everything very fast killers

if you want to counter something that can kill you very quickly, might as well go full on aggressive mode, borderline mentally insane at them

[keen plover]

Yeah maybe before raptor could side switch and didn’t slow you down lol

[leaden remnant]

and if you really wanna survive raptors as a 50% teno... man, just go and look for other tenos willing to fight for you

[keen plover]

It’s op and playing it down because the other playables are also op isn’t good for the game

[leaden remnant]

keep in mind pounce got considerably nerfed with this update

[keen plover]

No

[leaden remnant]

if everything is op, does it mean nothing is op?

[leaden remnant]

you either do bleed or damage, not both like before

[keen plover]

It’s strong. Juvis are strong. The bleed is strong. The slow down effect is strong

The grapple is strong

Yeah it’s rng pounce but sometimes they stay on forever. That’s the problem with rng

Also the side switching

Go to the back and have someone pounce the sides

[leaden remnant]

teno is strong, raptor is strong, deino is strong, dilo is strong as heck, dibble is strong, etcetera

a lot of things are pretty strong

[keen plover]

Most of those creatures are defensive or slow enough for you to avoid though

[leaden remnant]

it's only logical that everything else is made strong instead of nerfing everything

[leaden remnant]

for example, dilo is not

and raptors are very squishy

instead of going into the slow offensive, go into the attack right away but don't be stupid while attacking

[keen plover]

You can beat them though. They need to bite you

[leaden remnant]

1 bite is enough for em

most dilos straight up facetank you

[keen plover]

As what

[leaden remnant]

then just spam the clones which give you no room for defense

[leaden remnant]

everything that cant 1 tap em

ceras, carnos, etc

[keen plover]

Ceras puke them in one hit

[leaden remnant]

sacrifice health for a guaranteed kill

[leaden remnant]

if they get him to purple it's over

[keen plover]

Nope. Your hallucinations won’t do enough damage. You’d have to get extra bites to reapply the venom.

[leaden remnant]

uh, no

did you see the recent dilo buff

one dilo kills a fg carno in a minute or so only with hallucinations

they begin spamming them and in seconds you have 6 clones up your ass with more coming

and you cant bite them anymore btw

[keen plover]

I fought 4 and beat them. Puked them all. Not to say they were good but cera can dish out enough damage in the puke to get them low

Anyways dilo also needs work. Hallucinations are too free anyways.

[leaden remnant]

i played as a dilo and man

[keen plover]

Only thing holding it back is how bad the hallucinations work in certain terrains.

[leaden remnant]

it was ridiculous

[keen plover]

If it worked well then yeah, it’s cancer lol

[leaden remnant]

and fought some dilos with some carno players that are truly amazing players

[keen plover]

Not even a debate. Worse than Omni

[leaden remnant]

none of us lasted more than a minute against 1-2 dilos

it was 1 bite and be surrounded by uncountable hallucinations all biting you like insane

so many that you couldnt tell who the real one was

it was hell on earth, could count around 10 in 20 seconds

[keen plover]

And that’s an issue

[leaden remnant]

it was so horrendous i could not believe my eyes

[keen plover]

Can we not agree that multiple things can be bad at the same time

[leaden remnant]

yeah they can

i just dont see how pounce to pin is bad

it can be easily countered if in the right spot

[leaden remnant]

with bad i dont mean annoying, it's annoying as living hell but i dont think it's bad

[keen plover]

I don’t think pounce to pin is bad. I think it’s bad when you’re able to do it to healthy prey though

[leaden remnant]

i fail to see how that is bad as well

provided that you put enough weight, i think it's alr

the prey can always fight back till the last second, so there's always a chance

the issue that is see is people only complaining and not doing anything to learn how to fight

[keen plover]

Well if they’re managing their stam and health well, I think they should have the ability to fight back for a period of time

[leaden remnant]

so then they keep dying to raptors and complaining when they can just... fight

i dont wanna die as a teno to raptors so i figure out how to fight them, ez

get a basic notion of how they work and how i can counter them

and the result is ive never died to raptors as a teno in survival

[keen plover]

Teno has no issues lol. It’s too heavy for 2 omnis to pin it and can fight a pack for a bit

Old Carno was also fine

[leaden remnant]

in reality, nothing has serious issues

[keen plover]

Pachy does. Every single addition has screwed it. The creature that was added as an “anti Omni” lol

Dilo can at least run

[leaden remnant]

pachy doesnt have issues besides being clunky as hell

[keen plover]

Everything else is larger and can deal enough damage

[leaden remnant]

it is an anti raptor

the only thing is that you cant expect to fend off 8 raptors as a pachy

... which, btw, you can actually do sometimes if the raptors suck balls and you play it amazingly well

[keen plover]

No one said that. Pachy has never been able to do that anyways lol

[leaden remnant]

pulls a no u on raptors with a single bonk

you gotta land the bonk but thats pretty much it

if it wasnt clunky as hell, it would be out there destroying raptors

[keen plover]

Eh. Have 2 raptors stand near each other and you can’t hit them both. The other gets a pounce off easily and now you’re trotting. You better hope you got a leg fracture

[keen plover]

This I can agree with actually

[leaden remnant]

have 2 raptors stand near each other and i wont ever bonk them

they can come to me and not the other way around

[keen plover]

Ok but they can come together lol

[leaden remnant]

if i cant get an opening at the start ill get it later, that's fine

[keen plover]

I don’t think that tactic should even work vs pachy but eh.

[leaden remnant]

from what ive seen, as long as you practice and are confident in your abilities, youre most likely fine

[keen plover]

Imo pachy being one of the creatures that dealt with grapple well could be interesting

[leaden remnant]

tbh, nothing should be able to escape if pinned

[keen plover]

Well we know some will retaliate

[leaden remnant]

if you already got pinned down, how da hell are you gonna be able to escape

thats fine, just not escape

cause then that would be ridiculous

[keen plover]

I mean retaliation means they have the chance to escape lol

[leaden remnant]

you play it well, you manage to pin something down and bro just says "UNO REVERSE YOU MFERS"

[leaden remnant]

yesyes, but not just hold e and escape

like instantly escape

some things should be p much unable to die to raptors imo

[keen plover]

I mean allo was used as the example for retaliation in the stream. For pounce at least. Could have a few creatures like that

[dusky surge]

only raptor can be bad and thus never nerfed

[keen plover]

I don’t mind if pachy is one of them

It’s like the one creature that is both small and can’t escape Omni

[leaden remnant]

pretty nice imo

dont mind it at all

[keen plover]

Imagine omnis largely ignore allo lol

[leaden remnant]

i really wouldnt mind, i dont see why an allo would get obliterated by raptors unless it's a ton of raptors

but i dont see how most things rn wouldnt get obliterated by a ton of raptors, which is why i just tell ppl to stop complaining and to learn how to fight raptors

[keen plover]

Trying to reply to this message a few times and it broke my discord Ty

[leaden remnant]

💀

[keen plover]

I don’t care if raptor is strong. I just want their fights to be longer. It was said to be attrition based bleeder and that’s what I want from it. Personal preference though. We see raptor as 2 different things

[leaden remnant]

i totally understand

and yes, youre right, we see raptor as 2 different things

[dusky surge]

i see raptor as an animal that is supposed to be skilled but the recent changes says otherwise

[leaden remnant]

i see raptor as a great fighter, squishy but agile, dangerous as heck if you mess up, but, if you play it really well, practically useless

[dusky surge]

its not that atm

you can play really well and they'll just destroy you regardless because a billion damage + grapple

[leaden remnant]

my fighting experience says otherwise (just learn how to fight raptors not that complicated)

[leaden remnant]

@fringe linden iirc photosynthetic tissue and nocturnal give more flying speed

[unreal crystal]

Has there been any mentions from the dev team regarding dibblo hit box review or plans to fix it?

[waxen vortex]

fix rain

[obtuse ocean]

You dont care if its strong? Like this is something that can hunt prob 90% of the rooster. It got speed agility and stam, something will need to hunt them even if they are in packs since they are litterly pack hunters.

[leaden remnant]

aye aye sir, and, btw, most things can obliterate them when not solo

ppl putting themselves at the most awful disadvantage against raptors, literally throwing all their chances of surviving, and then saying raptor is op cause they died smh

[keen plover]

Wym, raptor being strong is fine?

I didn't say it should be tanky but the tools it has makes it strong (and that's good)

[obtuse ocean]

Yea it can be strong and should in packs, but dont mean it should be strong against all. Allo could easy be something you dont wanne mess with as raptor. And allo hunting them even when outnumber by far.

Tanky depends, i think if you screw up vs an allo as raptor your either dead or out from that fight.

[coarse blaze]

I just don't think raptors should be able to take on literally anything in the roster that isn't deino and for the most part, it can. Not everything is meant to fight everything and yet omni can very much kill the majority.

[dusky surge]

i still think it being designed around hunting stego is a colossal mistake

[coarse blaze]

Stego OP, it's fine.

Please know I'm joking

[dusky surge]

lol

[coarse blaze]

Raptors shouldn't be able to kill stegos without a hefty pack to overwhelm it in my eyes

Like a really hefty pack

[dusky surge]

i mean, yea, stego should absolutely be hunted by raptors eventually, but like... it really should not be the go-to

it's the animal with the flank defence

[coarse blaze]

I do worry for stego and I only worry more with allo really

I still haven't grown one after getting stunned by diablos, it doesn't feel worth growing right now to me.

[cosmic pelican]

Even if you like stego it isnt worth growing, all it takes is 1 skilled diablo to ruin 6 hours of growth

[coarse blaze]

That is exactly why I just can't bring myself to grow it now, I really thought the stun was being over-exaggerated until I felt it for myself in the PVP server.

The whole fact I could be stunned out of my attacks felt awful

I can't wait for apexes to be introduced and then people complain about why mid-tiers can't kill fully grown apexes. God forbid your allo pack can't kill a shant.

[dusky surge]

allo fans will just be the evolved version of omni fans

[coarse blaze]

I hate how that's not even a joke

That carni-main protagonist is going to swell

[dusky surge]

i cant wait for literal fires to ignite over an allo nerf in patch notes

[coarse blaze]

Enough allos will be grappled to the ground before they finally decide it was in fact overtuned.

I'm looking forward to trying allo but there's going to be so many.

[dusky surge]

i have literal negative interest in allo

doesn't seem to have any uniquely interesting mechanics besides mistakes from legacy and something that already sucks on omni, in the perfect "i really do not care about this" size range, not a terrifying menace like rex nor a fun unique critter like herrera or troodon

[coarse blaze]

Allo is just going to fill the void that carni-mains want, it'll be bigger and just overall better than what we have now as far as I'm concerned. It just sounds like it'll be a pain in the behind to deal with, that and with the cannibal mutation mega-packs are bound to happen right out the gate.

Allo is pretty, it had nice sound design in Legacy and it's overall a very popular dinosaur for a reason but I'm just so tired of hearing about it. I'll play it when it comes out and likely come to loathe dealing with it after the first month.

[leaden remnant]

it's not the go to btw

more like the desperate measure now that it's got inf swings

[dusky surge]

i genuinely fear the impact allo will have on the ecosystem more than rex by a longshot

[coarse blaze]

I'm not worried about rex that much honestly, I feel like it'll be a pain to grow at least and take ages but allo? Nah.

[dusky surge]

lmao ints "inf swings" are still its jab, so... not that concerning

[coarse blaze]

I only worry about rex when the apex v apex conversation pops up.

[dusky surge]

at least now it doesn't run out of stam and just die

oh wait. grapple. it does

[leaden remnant]

they have the ability to 1 tap you

[coarse blaze]

But -but! It'll one-tap me if it hits me!

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[coarse blaze]

The giant railspike killed my 800 kg raptor!

[leaden remnant]

if the stego goes to a nice wall spot then yeah good luck

(that's why it's really not the go-to)

it's honestly easier to kill a dibble than a stego

[dusky surge]

now you can swap latch points, which specifically helps a ton against stego, because goddamn stego needed that

[dusky surge]

as it absolutely should be

[leaden remnant]

bucking really helps stego rn

[dusky surge]

diablo: no flank defence
stego: flank defence

[coarse blaze]

The 3k HP thing is easier to kill than the 6k HP thing? wack.

[leaden remnant]

doesnt dismount you but instead kick you out like a bugged pounce

[leaden remnant]

when did u see me complain about that

i merely stated that stegos are not the go-to

[coarse blaze]

It was in reference to this

[leaden remnant]

yes and

[coarse blaze]

I was just pointing out that of course the thing with half the amount of health is easier to kill

[dusky surge]

when did you see me say stegos are the goto

i said i don't want them to be percieved as such

[dusky surge]

i dislike how stego is being the design standpoint for omni balance

[leaden remnant]

yea also that

im not sure if it's really the standpoint tho

[dusky surge]

despite the fact that, again, omni and stego should generally not be interacting much

[leaden remnant]

but im not sure if it's not either yknow

[coarse blaze]

I genuinely don't know why stego ever got nerfed, I never thought it was OP. It couldn't and still can't actively engage things, things could very much still kill it before all the nerfs and yet it just keeps getting the boot.

I've only ever died to stego when I've walked up to one

[dusky surge]

there was one thing that was OP

the stam. so they absolutely nuked it

and then every other thing they could

[coarse blaze]

I did see how few things you could use that powerswing in the PVP recently, I didn't know how much 10% or so actually felt until I used it.

I don't think it's worth using the power swing

[dusky surge]

10% feels BAD

wanna know why new carno is SO MUCH nicer

[coarse blaze]

The ram?

[dusky surge]

being usable, yes

[coarse blaze]

I've still yet to grow it this HT, just been seein them a lot.

[dusky surge]

i played carno recently. Genuinely went from an animal I don't touch to an animal I GENUINELY love

Like I can't understate how much of a glowup it got

[coarse blaze]

Isn't it still a 3 hr growth time?

[dusky surge]

Sadly, but that hopefully will be addressed

"It's smaller :("

It's also more fun, and for the first time ever, the niche it was advertised as DAY ONE of EVRIMA

[coarse blaze]

I hope so, it's why I haven't grown it. I started one and when it started to drag I just tried something else.

I wasn't worried about the carno change, I thought it'd be good for it and clearly people are liking it because I'm not seeing shortages of them on the HT.

[dusky surge]

It's got great endurance, it's speedy, it's good at hunting small game

It's done it

Omnis are complaining about it because they got so used to just baiting it out once then getting a free pounce and now it just whittles them down

I've seen many an omni not flee when they can and suffer for it

Just taking hit after hit after hit

[coarse blaze]

Tempting, tempting. Maybe I'll grow one sooner rather than later, I've been holding hopes for a Gen2 egg but maybe I'll just throw the towel in and try it.

I need to try new cera too, I've only fought it and it seems rough with the new bile bite.

[leaden remnant]

surely you'll like this then

[coarse blaze]

My teno instantly vomitted last fight I had, it died but took a teno with it.

[leaden remnant]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/iDEykJEL4x1W53dmO/d1337gHRO30t?invite=cr-MSxOMDcsMjUxOTE1ODY2LA

[dusky surge]

New cera is just broken. Not nearly the same joy as new carno, who is a balanced mesh of unique stats that compliment a playstyle

Genuinely love new carno

[coarse blaze]

With the vomit, do you think it holds up in a fight with new carno? I would assume it does

[leaden remnant]

i meannnnnnn yes and no

the carno can get distance and keep staggering the cera

[coarse blaze]

I'm both worried about just getting rammed non-stop but then there's the vomit

See that is why I'm unsure

[leaden remnant]

but at the same time, the cera can obliterate the carno

[dusky surge]

Well, given current damage values, if you're near a corpse, that'll be a SLOW death

[coarse blaze]

We live in funky fresh times, I'll likely try carno before the new cera. I just have the vibes that cera will get touched on value wise before I settle into it too soon.

I'm excited for maia too, I got a few things to try out really.

[dusky surge]

maia seems interesting

[coarse blaze]

I want

Whatever this shoulder-check-esc thing is

Having two types of attacks per stance seems interesting

Something I hope things like para and shant get too really.

[dusky surge]

i think its a universal hadrosaur thing

[coarse blaze]

I always forget that shant counts as a hadrosaur, my brain tells me that shant and things like Edmontosaurus are in their own group.

I might try pachy again with the new bucking rework but my hopes aren't high.

[golden coral]

@proud anchor I would make it so it's a full cycle of bucking = you get knocked off/on your rear (like when out of stam). Then adjust the bucking speed/cycle/anim to fit.

That way, the omni/troodon can learn how the bucking cycle looks like, to know when they absolutely must get off. And if it's worth pouncing if the target is already halfway through a buck cycle for example. Same way the bucker can learn when their cycle will finish and thus can "predict" somewhat if the omni/troodon is taking the risk of hanging on almost to the end.

I would also make it so you can only buck while standing still/turning and maybe walking (like grazing), so it's easy to see the bucking anim, or at least try and calculate if the target is walking since you don't have to also focus on it running and where you're going as much (since walking is slow, so less change of area while moving).

[proud anchor]

Issue here:
You can buck while sprinting. I've seen people moving and bucking, they only wobble their head.

Restriction to a still point (because it makes the most sense, considering what bucking is...) could be a requirement, given how strong it's becoming.

[golden coral]

I know, I mentioned it. I would restrict it to standing/walking at most (like grazing speed) so even if it's harder to see a moving buck anim, you also don't need to worry about the target running away very far from the area you're fighting in.

[proud anchor]

Ah, I must have overlooked.

[golden coral]

Never did make sense to me that you can buck while running, especially since even moving with someone latched drains stamina, last I checked at least.

[golden coral]

No worries, I should learn to space my message a bit better perhaps.

[proud anchor]

I see it. Yeah. That, and honestly... The animations could use a little more updating, if you ask me. The Carno's for example, not really much going on there.

[proud anchor]

Buddy of mine has very much appreciated me doing this lately. Lol.

But yeah, you just never know "When is someone bucking" when they're moving, aside from extremely subtle cues.

[golden coral]

I really dislike how it's RNG, I'm not sure I see why they did that, especially when it generally feels bad with RNG overall, and would feel even worse in a matchup. Since it could very well be that you get the kill not because of your decision, but because RNG said you could hang on the entire time. Or dying for the same reason.

[proud anchor]

I think that's to feel out the damage thresholds, personally. They're not being transparent in the reasoning, but I'm happy they were transparent in the mechanic's explanation.

[golden coral]

Target the same critter, in the same circumstance. Bucks, but in one case you get thrown off without doing anything, in the other you get to hang on until target dies. Not due to either of your choices/playstyle but RNG.

Could be, I hope they don't keept it, because it really seems off

[proud anchor]

It does seem bad. Instant buck knockdown will feel terrible, no matter what the reason.

Even instant buck knockoff onto your feet feels kinda weird...

9 times out of 10, it's also a free hit on the person who was bucked off.

[golden coral]

Charge idea you offered isn't bad btw, I just kind of like the idea of tying it to the buck cycle (making it clearer to see), because it's a more immersive way to learn and react to

[proud anchor]

(And because how hitboxes work, it's normally a headshot, too)

Right... I understand the need for an immersive experience, but this feature leads to an inescapable penalty, that can't be judged by other factors such as size for Carno's charge fail situation, or Cera's bile ability.

Omni is a very complicated mathmatical character I feel is going to become even more complicated once the Grapple situation is more spread out in it's utility.

[golden coral]

Possibly, but reading a buck cycle isn't neccesarily difficult, if we know where it starts and ends

So I don't think it'd be too bad, just the running version that would need adjustments

(or removal of that one really)

[proud anchor]

Like.. "Surprise you're immobile" even for the attacker could be a bad situation in a 3v3 for example. Then releasing from that grapple, and leaving your teammate on the grapple, but now glitched in a latch animation, it gets real weird real fast, and everything gets more complicated the further it goes.

On Bucking:
The need for the bars is also due to inconstant outliers...

Example:
Omni 1 is latched.
Target starts bucking animation.
Omni 2 latches.
Omni 1 jumps off
Omni 2 gets on just as the animation is completing.

Omni 2 gets instantly punished because they can't jump off in time? (Due to the input lag when the ability connects)

To explain a little further.. When you latch onto something you have a 1s timer, or some sort of cooldown befor you can bite, scratch, or jump off. This could pose problems if the animation is the deciding factor.

[golden coral]

Lag and stuff ruining it is a bother. One potential solution could be that if you latch on just at the end, you do the "kick-off" like if you pounce face. Otherwise I do think it'd be fine if the second one gets punished for jumping on too late. After all, par of the point here is to look at the target and where in the buck cycle it is, to decide if it's worth pouncing now, or wait until cycle done (and the current omni being on has jumped off or is thrown off).

[proud anchor]

No no, this isn't lag ~ this is what's called "Animation End-lag"

Like, the moment after an attack where the attack animation is ending before you can do anything else.

[golden coral]

Not sure why there's a "timer" on being able to act after a latch, that seems a little odd. But then you could probably have some kind of "fail-safe" at the end there, like a "kick-off" reaction

So if you were to pounce at a point where you'd be punished before you can react, you do the other attack instead

Would that work?

[proud anchor]

Well it makes it so people can't "Tap Pounce" because there used to be no lag.

People would pounce and pop off instantly.

[golden coral]

Ah, fair, so it's a good thing there's the timer then, we just need to work with it

[proud anchor]

Right. That's why my opinion lies with the gauge filling or expending in order to properly indicate without being tied to stamina.

It could be something DIFFERENT, too... It doesn't have to be the charges, because who knows. Maybe a pouncer like Troodon gets an ability that calls hallucinations and that's how it functions later on?

A seperate bucking gague... Whatever it would be, and I know they hate extra on-screen elements, but it would be the most effective.

There's a trillion ways they could do it, too. Maybe your Stam Bar glows green > yellow > orange > red and then you're knockdowned. So... However they wanna do it, but something that can show us ~ that's the important part.

Speed of the bucking drain and it's punishment can all come after the initial observational element is online. That's just my opinion, of course. Additional UI elements won't be a simple ask, either.

[proud anchor]

Glad people are coming around to Cera's massive offensive and oppressive toolset.@obsidian junco
You can ignore the Carno bits, because I actually like current Carno with the substantially slimmed down charge, but the Cera points I make may be interesting.
#balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

literally would make diablo worthless lol

that aint balancing the game

[onyx lichen]

@frank mesa I don't think Carno should grow just as fast but around the same time

[dusky surge]

what

[onyx lichen]

The new Balance feedback suggestion

[dusky surge]

so you dont want it to have the same growth time but want it to be "around" the same time

[onyx lichen]

Yeah, like Troodon grows slightly faster Than Herrera, Carno is fast and can escape situations much easier than Cera, it should take more time to grow

[dusky surge]

yea but troodon is much lighter than herrera, carno and cera are literally the same size, just different niches

[onyx lichen]

Weight doesn't entirely determine how fast something grows, Dryo weighs more than Troodon and it grows faster

Pachy weighs more than Omni and it grows faster

so Carno and Cera weighing the same shouldn't make them have the same growth time just for that reason

[keen plover]

Yeah but cera has more power and punch than carno so

[dusky surge]

^

different niches

[onyx lichen]

Then it should grow faster than Cera?

[keen plover]

No. Equal time if anything. Similar to raptor and dilo

[onyx lichen]

They're a minute apart for some reason

[keen plover]

They both have the same grow time roughly*

Which isn't too much of an issue imo

I think carno should like 120 - 130 minutes in grow time

[onyx lichen]

Carno should grow faster or get Taco on its diet, getting lines is a Nightmare

[dusky surge]

diets still need a rework imho

but now that carno isn't an 1800kg behemoth, making it have more AI would make sense

given that its alternative, cerato, has a much more diverse diet, but less AI

[onyx lichen]

Don't they have the same ai?

[dusky surge]

nope

cera has goat and that's it

[onyx lichen]

Let me rephrase

Don't they have the same Number of ai?

[dusky surge]

no

cerato has 1 ai

[onyx lichen]

Cera has Goat and Deer

[dusky surge]

it has deer? not last i checked

[onyx lichen]

Yeah it has deer

[dusky surge]

oh thats lame lol

[slim dragon]

So are shopping list diets as a whole

[tall bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yup-yeah-agree-screaming-gif-15949083

[pearl elbow]

Has anyone done any feedback for Cera yet? With the return of vomit locking people and instant vomiting?

[distant torrent]

return of vomit locking? as in like the first release cera causing endless vomits and no vomit cooldown?

ew

[pearl elbow]

Precisely, it seems there is no cooldown on the vomiting and you vomit even as a full grown teno with near full food from one bite.

[distant torrent]

I’d like to think that’s unintentional and going to be fixed but then I think about omni’s grapple where the best nerf so far to it has been requiring a minimum of two omnis lol
(not touching on the new bucking)

[fast breach]

I thought they were making Cera bacteria according to weight-

[leaden remnant]

@lunar jetty galli is in fact not slower than raptor or carno

galli is the the fastest dino

[lunar jetty]

They are

Caron is 56 I’m

Km

[leaden remnant]

carno is 49.5

[lunar jetty]

Gali is 55

[leaden remnant]

at least in ht

(ignore live branch just use ht)

[lunar jetty]

Cause he got nerfed

Raptor

[leaden remnant]

and raptors run at 46.8

[lunar jetty]

Can pin you down

[leaden remnant]

you r faster just run away

[lunar jetty]

So what

It’s faster if it spams lounge

[leaden remnant]

not in ht

and if he does just dodge the pounce

[cosmic pelican]

Id be fine with that, but for some unholy reason galli takes longer than omni to grow

Like... whaaat

Reduce gallis growth time and everyone will be happy 🙂

[leaden remnant]

i agree

[leaden remnant]

also to answer this

literally just run away and dodge the carno

if it's a raptor, run, you got like twice its stam

and if you play on the live branch where raptors can do the super fast thing, dodge the raptor doing that

consumes a ton of stamina to do that

@spring field uh they have the slowest turn rate and a horrible attack speed

they burn all their stam in i think 5 seconds which they get back in 4 minutes

r u sure they need a nerf

recently they got their overall speed nerfed by a ton

[spring field]

wow can you tell me the last time you killed a deino on ground?

they seemd weak af

[leaden remnant]

probably about 2 months ago

[spring field]

thats enough

[leaden remnant]

not sure tho, havent really engaged deinos

but i will say one thing tho, i personally have no issues with, as a solo raptor, killing a fg deino

about 95% of my deino kills are as solo raptor so like

should show you how bad they are on land

takes a while but eh they cant do much about it tbh

[leaden remnant]

only thing is their health

8 tons... yeah gonna take a while to kill them

[snow glade]

@spring field #balance-feedback message

Crocs are already so down bad that the big crocs camp the spawn points to cannibalize the fresh spawns. Don’t need to nerf them more.

@mortal locust #balance-feedback message

Salt water mutation has been really easy for me to get tbh. Every now and then it takes a bit longer, but you’re getting a mutation that gives you a significant benefit of avoiding conflict. Especially for herbivores. When I play Tenno or Pachy, my migration zones are always near or on the coast line. Carnivores aren’t going to venture out there unless they know we’re there. If we have to run to the fresh water, they will be around there, if not, a croc will. Now that crocs can get the saltwater mutation, they can get into almost any pond they want to. It honestly doesn’t need to be made easier. It’s fine as it is

@vagrant plover #balance-feedback message

Honestly, that extra 5% from the nocturnal mutation would be good to just be added to both of the dinos has an ability. Like how Galli’s can 1 call near each other for a speed boost. Then adding the mutation on top of that would just be an extra boost.

When I play Dilo I don’t even get the nocturnal mutation. Until the new night vision is released, I don’t see a purpose. It’s still a challenge to find other players at night especially when they’re not sprinting around the map in an open field. I get the day time boost since day is much longer than night, and imo at night, I never actually get to take advantage of it.

Adding the 5% boost to dilos automatically as an ability is something I’d like to see.

Honestly, Troodons are already quick and agile and tiny, it’s easy to dodge something assuming both parties don’t have crap ping lol.

[dusky surge]

dilo is already fast as hell, does it really need that? The speed mutations are problematic enough as is without them being basekit

[snow glade]

@mystic terrace #balance-feedback message

Honestly I like these balancing ideas. With the carno being nerfed, increasing their group size would help offset the weight changes. Reducing the grow time just logically makes sense since it has less weight. I would also say doing something about the carno food situation could be good as well.

[snow glade]

They’re fast, but we can still be ran down by carnos even with the mutation. With dilos being night hunters it would make sense for them to at least stand a chance to escape from a pack of carnos.

Honestly I wouldn’t even be opposed to dilos having the 5% boost as an ability, but removing the ability for the dilo to select the nocturnal mutation as one of their three mutations. They’d get the 5% at night by default, and no longer can select the mutation preventing a full grown dilo from running at 52.25kph at night. By default it would be like 49.8 or something at night and no more than that for full grown

[dusky surge]

i mean... they're carnos. obviously they'll run down dilos due to them being fast. Also, why exclude troodon, another nocturnal creature

[snow glade]

Troodons are already excellent at evading. They’re tiny and fast. They can just sprint through any foliage and lose anything trying to chase it.

[dusky surge]

personally, i despise both the day and night variants of the speed mutations, and think speed mutations in general are a colossal mistake and need to be just scrapped, and anything that gives speed replaced with other less harmful stats

[dusky surge]

they're slower than dilos, omnis and carnos

[snow glade]

Yes, but like I said, they’re minuscule. When I play as a troodon it never fails for me to escape something by sprinting through foliage in a random path. Around rocks, trees, etc

They’re already a 1-2 shot kill to most dinos, they’re whole thing with being that small is being able to evade a bite

[snow glade]

I am fine with most of the mutations, even the speed mutations. There are a couple that I am iffy on though. The salt water mutation just makes no sense to me. The devs put in all that effort to make safe water spots from deinos such as preventing them from spawning in the south river, and putting a saltwater lagoon at the bottom of a freshwater river (which makes no sense to me), and then with that saltwater mutation, it enables deinos to quite literally go anywhere they want. Swim around the map in the oceans, get to places like the east pond, south river, highlands, etc. highlands and south river I already know were possible before. But I can say from experience that the south plains river trip was extremely difficult, and required perfect precision and a very specific growth % range for it to be possible. Doing it perfectly would get you to the pond south of the river with red health and 0 water with 0 stamina. With the new mutation, I just made that exact trip with a 15% croc when before I had to be 30-45%. Better yet, I got there with full water, and 100% HP lol.

[dusky surge]

salt water mutation seems a lot better to me than the ability to destroy entire matchups and make animals capable of doing stuff they ABSOLUTELY should not be doing with speed

salt water mutation just grants more flexibility in playstyle and enables you to thrive in areas you couldn't before, as well as aiding with traversal for aquatic animals

the fact that both teno and pachy are REQUIRED to take the speed mutation or get obliterated by a cerato that has it is just sad

[snow glade]

Even without the speed mutations on pachy, me and two others have severely screwed up two ceratos with us just having the mutations for reduced damage from larger species, bleed resistance, and damage to stamina

[dusky surge]

i love how two of those mutations are just as bad as the speed one (reduced damage and damage to stamina are absolutely disgusting mutations)

not a fan of mutations that hard enforce a meta

[golden coral]

@radiant shadow What does your feedback mean? What's the issue?

[radiant shadow]

Utah attack speed is so slow

make me feel bad

[snow glade]

Damage to stamina is a little stupid I will agree with that. I don’t see anything wrong with reduced damage from larger species. Isn’t it a 5% value?

[dusky surge]

15%. Disgustingly high unless it was changed this HT

[snow glade]

Yeah 15% is a bit high. It makes a carnos bite force go from 175 down to 150 which is what a cera would have. I could see this being fine with a 10% value tbh. If not, then 5.

[dusky surge]

i'd be fine if it were 5%, because then at that point its a very minor edge and not a colossal advantage

[radiant shadow]

Stam is so bad now

You must make you stam 60%

But Utah/carno they must use more stam to fight

So how can i heal my stam when i fight????

[dusky surge]

what

[radiant shadow]

So bad so bad

[snow glade]

I mean there are certain dinos where a 10% reduction is the difference of 5hp or death. Like a pachy. If I didn’t have that mutation on, one good hit from a cera would just end me, instead it puts me on red health

Rn with the 15% I believe a full grown cera getting a good charged body hit on me puts me at orange

[snow glade]

Omnis are pack hunters, the idea is to pounce, back off to regain stam, let the rest of the pack take their turns, and hop back in

But yes the stam is a little ridiculous now I’ll agree with that

[golden coral]

Slow? As in, normal bites, the pounce attacks, or what? I don't think the speed has been changed recently for that matter.

[radiant shadow]

How long you play

@golden coral

[golden coral]

?

[distant torrent]

it feels like diablo is starting to get the stego treatment

[dusky surge]

oh it is

herbivores are balanced via clunkiness

[distant torrent]

I always love watching good herbivores get nerfed while the fan favorite carnivores like cera get hard buffs (hopefully unintentional with the hordetest cera. the return of vomit locking and a single charge bite vomitting an adult dibble doesn’t seem intentional to me)

[snow glade]

@wicked idol #balance-feedback message

Do you know how big deinos are? It’s supposed to be rough, it adds a horror element. Just be safer about drinking water or crossing water

Irl they weighed up to 10 tons, in game a FGA only hits 8. Not to mention it takes 12 hours without a perfect diet to fully grow

[dusky surge]

i think you misunderstood

he's talking about deinos grabbing other deinos

[snow glade]

Oh I see, but it still kinda applies

If the other deino is double your weight, he can grab you lol

Once you hit 5 tons, a fga deino won’t be able to grab you on land anymore

[keen plover]

but they can grab you in water

and fg deinos are also faster on land, with a faster trot iirc

so it's pretty unfun to deal with

[snow glade]

Deinos can grab anything swimming

It isn’t going to be fair playing an extremely strong cannibalistic creature. If someone is bigger, you stay away, or do whatever they want you to do

[regal tulip]

The problem is that you cant swim away and you can actually get drowned by a fg at 80% which honestly shouldn't be possible, might even have been 87% I'm not sure rn.

Fact that deinos can drown each other is weird in general

[snow glade]

I think deinos being super keen on cannibalism in general is just weird and not fun

[leaden remnant]

@lunar jetty they nerfed pounce in ht and made bucking way better as well

the way they nerfed pounce is that you have to pick either doing bleed or damage, can't do both, but you can swap sides while pounced

[lunar jetty]

Oh ok

[radiant shadow]

@lunar jetty what mean is Utah get nerfed?

nerfed for what?

[dusky surge]

omni can actually kill you faster with the new changes lmao

[radiant shadow]

Omni nerfed what?? why i cant feel it

[green heart]

I played omni for the first time in awhile last week on hordetest and it shredded through things it’s size and smaller pretty quick

[dusky surge]

omni got buffed in HT, IDK why you'd say it was a nerf

thing does so much damage and bleed now, and it can choose which it wants

[radiant shadow]

What is HT?

@dusky surge

[dusky surge]

Horde Test

[radiant shadow]

do you know utah?

[dusky surge]

do you mean omni, or is utah a guy i should know about

[radiant shadow]

Utah pounce damage get a huge nerfed

do you really know about utah?

[dusky surge]

oh you're talking about omni

also, it really didn't get a huge nerf at all

its recent pounce changes have it doing insane amounts of damage

[radiant shadow]

funny

[dusky surge]

it is funny, but probably needs a nerf

[radiant shadow]

why nerf?

[dusky surge]

because it can melt a ton of animals super quickly with its crazy high damage lol

[radiant shadow]

Isn't utah weak enough

[dusky surge]

no? raptor has remained very strong for a long time, and that hasn't changed

[radiant shadow]

oh,but you can use E to make it down,isnt?

[dusky surge]

yea, but it can just get back on lol

[radiant shadow]

and some trees,stone,anything that you can make it down

[dusky surge]

and it can now swap sides to avoid trees or stones

[radiant shadow]

but swap sides,must use a lot of stam

[dusky surge]

not that much really

[radiant shadow]

you dont know about utah my bro

[dusky surge]

i play it my bro

i just prefer it to be balanced than fulfil raptor fantasies

hell, the fact that you still call it utah makes me feel like you haven't played it in over a year lol

[radiant shadow]

i call it utah,cuz i dont like omni this stupid named

understand?

[dusky surge]

that's going to be complicated when they add utah

[radiant shadow]

If you think it's reasonable for Utah to be nerfed, then you should think about his high stakes during the fight

[radiant shadow]

will a new dino called Utah in theisle?

[dusky surge]

yes

[radiant shadow]

when

[lunar jetty]

Omniraptor needs a nerf

[dusky surge]

they are literally adding utahraptor as a different dino

[radiant shadow]

or just a plan

[dusky surge]

no clue

[radiant shadow]

What kind of Utah is that, do you understand the situation? Can you describe it to me

what different about Omni

OR JUST A STUPID FUTURE PLAN?

SOON TM?

[dusky surge]

it's a different raptor that is based on the realistic utahraptor rather than the jurassic park raptor

it is not a reskin

[shadow vortex]

-# Tbh I had a stroke after reading this conversation.

[dusky surge]

raptor

[vale brook]

((for the record, omni is never faster than gallimimus no matter the growth, unless your gallimimus does not have atleast 2 diets))

[lunar jetty]

IT CAN STILL pin down 1 in 1 sec\

[vale brook]

yeah but you can also just run away from it

i do think galli should be able to knock over omnis again

that one change and everything would be okay again

[neon portal]

literally same I feel like I'm losing my mind

[jovial vessel]

aw gallis cant knock down omnis anymore? laaaame

[dusky surge]

not since the early hordetest of U6.5 lol

[jovial vessel]

Ive not played galli in a while lmao but that succcks

Omnis are a pain and get too many perks, I enjoy destroying them

[royal beacon]

i love getting stunned on the tail from a dibble nice 🙂

[cedar beacon]

@west plank i think they changed it so Diablos can only make an 180 turn when looking back or to the side

@distant torrent they changed it so Diablo can only make 180 when looking to the side or behind it .

[leaden remnant]

did they buff damage and bleed

[vague helm]

@distant torrent

Diablo's drift is weird because FPS messes with it.

My friends who run the game at smooth 60-70 FPS can easily get a full 180 drift going, meanwhile my drift sucks and my Dibble often stops 90° through and then slowly turns the others due to my FPS.

Also, it's still best to just spint forward and then hold S down for the best result rather than S and any other button

[cedar beacon]

needs to be fixed tbh

[distant torrent]

I lock my fps to 60 and it never wavers (4090 i9)

[distant torrent]

that’s not a full 180 drift but honestly

I think the drifting is drastically different for young dibbles vs adult dibbles so I think that’s why it felt so horrible on the hordetest for me

on the hordetest, young dibble’s drift was horrible no matter which way you looked. however, on the main branch when I switched back, I noticed a young dibble’s drift was a bit better than hordetest’s young dibble drift yet still bad compared to its adult equivalent

(I guess speed affects how well the drift is if both age and FPS effects how well it can be performed?)

[vague helm]

If your problem with the 180 drift is the actual speed of it rather than him stopping and then making a 90° turn, then that's intended.

Dibble got a few changes and adjustments in the HT.
Going into the block will have a small activation cost and also won't let you sprint anymore
The drift was also slowed down for Dibble since it was way too good

[distant torrent]

my issue was the apparent inability to go past a 80 degree running turn but apparently that’s only for young dibble

which should still be changed because there’s zero reason for that since young dibble is already slow as hell and can’t really dish out a lot of damage due to inconsistencies of attack damage for different attacks

[vague helm]

Huh, no clue then.

Yeah that is likely a case of "Your speed is so bad so you can't fully drift", I agree in that case then

[cedar beacon]

I wasnt Full adult so maybe thats why my drifts were not fully 180 turns

[distant torrent]

if you get to adult you could possibly clip the turning you get to see if there’s any noticeable difference

[cedar beacon]

True

[golden coral]

@wicked idol What's there to say?

[shadow vortex]

Erik I’m sorry I kept this as a secret for too long, but I can’t unsee Thomas the Tank in your pfp :(

[golden coral]

Not the first, won't be the last.

[wicked idol]

a 24% stego can one shot 100% carno

[dusky surge]

there's absolutely no way that's true unless there's some kind of cheating involved

[golden coral]

What kind of attack, and where did it hit?

[wicked idol]

To the head. But the stego wasnt even addo yet at that size.

[golden coral]

Could still happen if it was a power swing, especially if it was the running one, now that carno is rather small

[wicked idol]

Yea a power swing to a carno that is 100% grown will kill it to the head

cera too

[golden coral]

So the attack would do about 1K damage, might sound like a lot, but it's not entirely unreasonable considering stego has no other recourse but to stand and fight

[wicked idol]

Every other creature at hatchling stage cannot defend itself. Why is the stego different?

[golden coral]

Well, most of the others are smaller, faster, can hide and run and otherwise survive slightly better. And not sure how large a 25% stego is, though I'm pretty sure it's at least omni size or larger at that.

[wicked idol]

And dibble? its slow and fat and cant defend itself until 40% or so in current evirma branch. But has been change in current ht. to be harder to gain the weight.

[golden coral]

Which would probably mean juvie dibbles could use some help. The fact that they were slower than juvie stegos (might still be?) is very strange

[wicked idol]

Also croc doenst gain its weight until 70%

[hasty coyote]

I'm pretty sure stego still has the speed ramp during growth unlike diablo, so they should still be faster

[golden coral]

Deinos also only have their own to compete with, except maybe when very small if a beipi wants them dead

Though I don't think beipis can eat deinos so (maybe they should be able to...)

[wicked idol]

Deinos cant compete when they can be grabbed on land until 70% or so.

[golden coral]

That's just so dumb, why is a dibble slower than a stego

[golden coral]

What do you mean?

[hasty coyote]

good question.

[hasty coyote]

an adult deino can grab an 80% deino and drown it, since an 80% deino is 6 tons

[wicked idol]

U can spend 5 hours on a croc and still be grabable on land and drug into water and drown with no chance to fight back.

U can be grabbed in water until 88%

I just think a whole rebalance on the bigger dino for weight gain over time should be adjusted. (Dibble, Croc, Steg)

[golden coral]

Not sure how soon stego reaches its safe weight, though I imagine it's at least 50% plus. But the point was more so that deinos only get hunted by their own, most of the time. Stego and other land critters have to well, deal with every other land critter more often than not. But sure, stego could be made to gain weight/damage slower, not like it'll matter much.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

wait a minute

this is bait, god forbid

Wow that was gone FAST

[leaden remnant]

stego reaches its safe weight at about 80%

stego is officially the hardest thing to grow now

takes longer than deino and picks up growth slower than deino

[dusky surge]

(because, y'know, stego OP)

imagine having something harder to grow than an apex that loses to a midtier

incredible

for clarity's sake, i am not against stego's difficulty of growth, rather the overnerfed nature of its combat that makes the adult state and said growing insufferable

the only stego nerfs i actually liked from the diablo HT were to the growth speed and juvi power

[deep edge]

hi i would like to see that the nightvision has a source of a bar , like the stamina or the power is lowering over time.

[slim dragon]

For what purpose ?
That sounds just unrealistic, useless and annoying

[dusky surge]

also i dont even know what you want here? You want NV to weaken over time?

[deep edge]

the nightvision i bright , where is the night like a night ...?

[eternal oak]

i could see it, for human flashlights

but night vision is supposed to make the game like... fun at night, while still keeping the game immersive

[dusky surge]

that's already a thing with new NV

[eternal oak]

oh epic

or wait, what do you mean exactly

[dusky surge]

shine light in eyes of dinosaur

NV go poof

[eternal oak]

ohhhhh, yeah thats cool. but i meant more of like, a battery for human flashlights

but that could probably just end up being annoying

[dusky surge]

that's not even how eyes work lol

also that'd be INSUFFERABLE to manage lmao

[eternal oak]

probably, i was just trying to make sense out of "night vision bar/power lowering over time" thing

[deep edge]

sry , my feeling like is the nightvision ,like its on the hordetesting , very strong .

[eternal oak]

i think thats the point

you know, to see at night

as far as im concerned the new night vision is brilliant

[deep edge]

i respect your opinion

[dusky surge]

the nights on hordetesting are too bright atm, that's an acknowledged issue

[royal valve]

@wide copper the hoard test is literally about the issue your talking about, night vision has been reworked you can play it, right now

[opaque vine]

#balance-feedback message it kinda does, the bleed is survivable, I’ve done it as a dilo so it isn’t too oppressive imo

[fast breach]

I got one shot by Herrea as Dilo LOL

Massive cliff over at SP along with a massive tree on top of the cliff- didn’t matter that I was full health xd just super unlucky

[regal tulip]

fg? afaik a herrera puts a fg dilo at 7% hp if it hits the head

[cosmic pelican]

If the herrera has the enlarged meniscus mutation and jumps from really high it can 1 shot a dilo

[stark knoll]

You don't need the mutation for that

[cosmic pelican]

Well yeah, but you kinda wanna live afterwards no? X)

[fast breach]

Both fg. It was a REALLY high fall- like potato said

[molten fern]

growing an apex should be hard hiding away from biger deinos is pretty easy

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message

how about instead of reverting, we make it to where ramming heavier playables at any part of the body (including tail tips) causes the carno to be stunned and we bring back the cooldown charges for charge so it can’t spam it

realism isn’t a really good argument tbh when apparently the lore has it to where the dinosaurs aren’t even related to ones that once roamed the planet and were created from the ground up by some AI (someone please correct me if that’s wrong because I’m definitely not a lore master lol)

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I think carno having a brain dead playstyle is fine. Not every Dino has to require a phd to not be useless. However, I do agree carno seems to get a bit too much mileage on just holding rmb. Tho I’m unsure how they can fix that without another adjustment.

Carno’s entire design philosophy goes against the general balance premise so it’s always going to have some issue. It’s both faster and stronger than most its prey, only thing holding it back is agility and not the best stam.

Plus ain’t no way carno groups would ever stand a chance against allo. If they get mauled by Diablo this bad, they will get mauled by allo even worse.

[obtuse ocean]

Why is that bad ?

[hasty coyote]

Carnos not standing up to allo? I never said it was bad. I was meaning that the adjustment did nothing to change that matchup, carnos would still get mauled if they were 1.8 tons.

Carno honestly should never be designed to punch up. If carnos can fight an allo, imagine what they would do to a teno, or a pachy. Teno is the absolute max I’d like carnos to fight, and they should require groups to do so. Currently the adjustment seems to have done just that.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea im not sure what you mean, you think carno have a chance against allo now? Every playable right now should get mauled by allo if it manages to catch it ofcourse. Except dibble stego deino etc

In legacy allo vs carno was a really fun interesting fight, no tail biting. Just pure timing and dodging etc. And it was hard fighting 3 carnos as 1 allo. But it was a even fight sorta

[hasty coyote]

Im saying carno loses to allo, it should lose to allo. Even groups were going to lose against allo unless the allo had major skill issue.

[hasty coyote]

Also I never take legacy into account because it’s basically an entirely different game when it comes to combat.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, im not saying that its same playstyle. But you still adapt to how the balance is in every game. I was talking about legacy as in powerlevel. Like carno wont take on a allo solo etc

[dusky surge]

#general-feedback message
#balance-feedback message

"Revert carno changes" vs "Revert carno changes (youtuber)"

???

[stark knoll]

"revert carno changes" vs "revert carno changes [actual substance]"

[hasty coyote]

also its balance feedback vs general feedback, different audiences.

[dusky surge]

also bringing back U6 carno is wild

U6 carno was one of the most hated versions of carno

[obtuse ocean]

Ive never understand the "braindead" thing, its like complaing about omni is not braindead and rex is. Cus rex can click a button and win. But noone takes into account the speed agilty stam, pick and choose whatever fight they want.

[hasty coyote]

I agree that the current carno needs some tweaking still, but its in a much healthier spot overall compared to how it used to be.

[dusky surge]

it's not like old carno was particularly intellegent or skilled

idk where people are getting the idea that old carno was somehow better

[obtuse ocean]

omni mains

[hasty coyote]

you just had to be good to use it in any capacity because it was bad

[dusky surge]

yea

and even then, it was just LMB spam instead of RMB spam

it's not like there was some deep mechanical flare to old carno that's been lost

if anything, i'd say new carno has more to it than old carno in the way of actual strategy

[regal tulip]

only mechanic carno ever had was crouch stopping and that wasnt intentional

[dusky surge]

yup. to say new carno is "braindead" is wild, given the animal has NEVER been the height of skilled gameplay

it has always been inherently simple at its core

[hasty coyote]

especially since you actually have the option to just hold down charge and it doesnt burn all your stam

[regal tulip]

i mean the stam drain was complete bs, charge once and your prey can just run you down

[obtuse ocean]

But honestly, if carno is supose to be small game hunter. It needs to be good, they dont come solo. Like you actually need to eat the food aswell, not get killed after you got a kill

[hasty coyote]

now you just hold rmb and accelerate faster rather than decelerate faster.

[dusky surge]

well not only that, you have to decide between charge, which can do less damage, or bite, which does more consistent damage in CQC fights and bleed, but is harder to hit

[regal tulip]

that wasnt a decelerate, that was a straight stop out of a full sprint. Fun af but also busted af

baiting attacks was a walk in the park

i loved it but i also get why they removed it

[opaque vine]

Biting does require timing unlike charging tbf, prob why people think it’s a braindead ability

[shadow vortex]

Ehh that’s why I started to think too that turning headbutt would fit Carno more… Would have a bit bigger hitbox than a bite, but require timing (since I imply it as a tap-ability, not the continuous one like ram), make you turn faster up to 45 degree, and knockdown small things to the side…

[regal tulip]

Actually why not make the carno alt attack the headbutt to the side like you mentioned (similar to pachy alt attack) and the charge would become a speed up (like its rn) but at the end you dont knockdown or stagger but you bite for 200 damage. Making the whole holding RMB while running through whole herds of smaller dinos braindead playstyle redundant. You would still have your knockdown for small game on alt in a brawl fight in that case. Thoughts?

Would also be fun to hunt gallis like that and not just knock them down but really chase them

[obtuse ocean]

But for how long ? Split second anything gets away from open area the carno will not kill. It needs to end the fight fast in the open.

If i can tank a few hits, i will be far off in the woods

[regal tulip]

or hold RMB for the speed up and LMB while running sped up triggers the empowered bite

but RMB would reduce agility ofc

[shadow vortex]

Alt-attacks cannot be performed on the run, and that’s what I seek. And I’d like special ability to be something not only damage related, similar to a bite, but more of a niche tool (which is small game hunt in Carno’s case). So in my head I keep the knockdown for finishing these little critters

[obtuse ocean]

Yea good point

[regal tulip]

yeah ik thats why i said in a brawl you still had the knockdown not while chasing, i just feel the knockdown while running adds to the whole braindead playstyle thats so disliked

[obtuse ocean]

And normally those "small tiers" dont come solo, so you also need to eat whatever you killed. Without beeing butcered lol

[regal tulip]

actually make alt RMB the headbutt knockdown and leave the normal alt bite

[shadow vortex]

I mean, it can have 1. CD and charges like Dryo, 2. Conditions for the knockdown/stagger (like current 2 seconds to knockdown something).

[regal tulip]

stamina drain like on HT rn would be fine imo, probably less tho since its only used to speed up now

[obtuse ocean]

Yea sounds fair

[regal tulip]

well lets see how many Xs i can collect xd

[hasty coyote]

I think that kinda goes antithetical to what carno is supposed to be. Carno is supposed to blitz down small things, not brawl. If you're brawling as carno, you are doing something wrong (or got handicapped by a pachy). I'd rather they make charge have better cc ranges but worse damage, so you're supposed to follow up on the knockdown with a bite for damage. This prevents the sprinting through everything without a care, helps with the teno and cera matchups, and makes carno take a bit more skill.

[keen plover]

Larger Carno could have worked. The downsize wasn't necessary imo. I do think current Carno's gameplay is more fun to play though.

[dusky surge]

True, you could make it work, but 1300kg is the first carno in literal years that fulfils its desired role in EVRIMA

[keen plover]

This is true lol

[dusky surge]

So we either bite the bullet on it being light, or go back to trying our hardest to make the 1800kg carno (which hasn't worked for 2 years) FINALLY do what we want it to

[keen plover]

That's fair however we usually don't get many balance changes. Carno has technically been the same (livebuild) for almost 10 months.

1800kg Carno could of had the same knockdown ranges as current Carno and charge damage.

[dusky surge]

Honestly, I'm still more upset about its speed than weight

[keen plover]

For me its the speed > Bite damage > Weight

I hate that sub raptor / dilo are faster than carno at base