balance-feedback-discussion

[umbral solar]

making stego powerful and when rex and other apex carnivores come out i would not be mad if they made the power swing to more damage too

because as of now it has best of both worlds

[spark hazel]

This was something i tried to tell you earlier 😅
New attack kinda makes Stego less of a defense oriented and more aggressive like a trike playstyle

Though it was fun to chase after adult dibbles as a 30% Stego an K.O them down like they are nothing

Has anyone tested Deino vs "new" stego?

[livid spindle]

It may look interesting to swing a bat, but this action is very dangerous for a 6-ton creature.
Even if this is ruled out, I think stego should be defensive, and it may be more suitable if it can shake its tail from side to side and make it difficult for carnivores behind it to get close. Now it seems easier to take the initiative to rush to the opponent to attack.
Unless stego can beat rex, I think it's better to run away when I see rex instead of rushing to attack him.
Thanks to this endurance and injury mechanism, a single rex may not want to consume all his endurance and health.
Since rex has not appeared yet, the only conclusion that can be obtained from the changes to stego now is that stego is op.
At present, we can only guess the combat effectiveness of rex, but deino has a big mouth close to rex but only has 500 attack power, while stego casually has 2500 attack power. I'm not sure whether rex will eventually become what I imagined.

I have some thoughts out of ecological environment:
Stego and deino often fought before.
Deino can find a safe place to recover from the injury, so it doesn't care about the injury.
Stego can hardly be shaken on land, so it doesn't care about injuries.
Although rex is better than stego, it doesn't have such a good environment as deino. Will it want to avoid injury?
For stego, the creature that really threatens his life has appeared, and whether it will be so belligerent.
But you can never guess what individual players think.

[spark hazel]

@analog mirage
There was some talk about the hallucinations spawn other things like a Deino and other things so you are never safe from hallucinations regardles if you are in water or air or trees

[analog mirage]

I don’t really see the point in making an entire new hallucination for water when you can just slap the swimming animation on dilo.

On rocks I can understand a Pterodactylus ai

Even so, that doesn’t fix the issue that they straight up don’t spawn

[spark hazel]

Its to make it scary and an attempt on trying to scare you out of the water.
Dilo is not that fast in the water, Deino are

[golden coral]

Heh, I agree on the "how should stego work/how should the new attack work" more or less, but I also know that my view does not align with the devs, hence I will argue that their implementation most likely works as they want it. Much as I would change around the damage values, and various other things, that's not going to happen. So as silly as stego "run at things" attack is, it does seem to be how they want stego to do things, both in general and specifically vs large things, considering how clunky and limiting the old attack is.

@analog mirage I would keep the noise, but let the dilo hear it too, maybe with some kind of visual indication as well, so you know where your clone is and from which direction it'll be running (assuming they do run more or less straight towards the target). That way you can coordinate with your clones for attacks.

[analog mirage]

The issue is it doesn’t become an effective hallucination anymore. When I know exactly where it is and what it is. Dilo hallucination should make me question if it’s the real one or not and react as if it’s the real one.

When I get a distinct noise that alerts me “this is a hallucination coming in” it just doesn’t work

Dilo doesn’t make that 3 call. The hallucination does

[golden coral]

Depends on what you intend for the clone to do. Is it meant to be "is this the real dilo", or is it meant to be as a "missile attack" that you need to deal with, at the risk of being hit for real. So you'd either deal with the "guaranteed" incoming damage, or keep looking for the real dilo. And I meant that dilo should be able to hear/see its own clones so it can coordinate with them for an attack. You could also keep the noise, but "throw" it, so you do get a warning, but you don't know from which direction the clone will be coming.

[analog mirage]

Dilo hallucinations (while they should be able to deal damage as a stand in for venom doing its thing”) should mainly be used to make me question if it’s real or not. A dilo just shot out of the dark at me. Things that happen suddenly that make the player react quickly

Instead of just “oh great, here comes a Dilo that I 100% know is fake. Time to counter it

[golden coral]

Isn't part of that issue the lack of ability for the real dilo to coordinate the attack though?

Even if you know one of the dilos are fake, the ability to counter becomes a lot harder when they're both jumping out at you from the dark and you don't know which one of them is the real one?

[quick cargo]

@sly pilot cera is pretty slow and dilo oblitarites him so idk what you are on about

[coarse blaze]

Why are people trying to fight stego currently as dibble and then complaining that there's no counterplay? Dibble isn't meant to fight it, the same way carno isn't and teno isn't. Not everything should have a chance fighting everything.

[eager saddle]

I don’t think getting run down by it counts as fighting

[coarse blaze]

That's not exclusive to steg and not an issue that should nerf said playable. Anything faster than you can run you down.

Adult steg is 28 km and adult Dibble is 36 km. Steg is slower.

I do, agree that younger dibble should be faster but I don't agree that something that takes 6 hours to grow suddenly needs to be slower.

[eager saddle]

It should at least be adjusted

[coarse blaze]

Which part?

[eager saddle]

Because if you can’t fight it and you can’t run, you just lose

[eager saddle]

Either or

Preferably dibble because its new

And not properly balanced yet

[coarse blaze]

Again it makes no sense to nerf the speed for steg because it's not an issue specifically tied to it. It's needlessly punished.

Young dibble though is exceptionally slow and for a "fast ceratopsian" it's not very fast.

[golden coral]

Just make juvie and sub dibble faster, and it should be all good

[coarse blaze]

Hard agree

[golden coral]

No reason it should be slow anyway, not like juvie stego is fast in the first place, don't really see any reason for anything to be even slower

[coarse blaze]

It's really slow

[golden coral]

At some point it also just becomes bad/unfun to play, even if you never encounter a stego to smack you, if you're too slow

[eager saddle]

I just want a change for the stego charge attack with the animation hitting you at the start

And MAYBE 2% more stam use

But otherwise it’s okay

[golden coral]

Hitting you at the start? Explain? Does it work differently to other attacks?

[coarse blaze]

Hitboxes are an issue and so is latency. I agree with niche man that steg should just be loud when charging and the charge shouldn't be held stealthily.

[coarse blaze]

I'd also like to know

[golden coral]

From what I've been told, the new attack hitbox is even more accurate than the old attack, and that one was pretty solid in the first place

[eager saddle]

I know it’s in one of the feedback channels. It’s when the charge attack starts but instead of killing you at the end of the hitbox (the lasrt part of the attack) it inflicts the damage at the start while the attack hasn’t technically hit you yet

Making the hitbox messed up

[golden coral]

Shouldn't the attack do damage throughout the anim if anything?

[coarse blaze]

That could be abused if it didn't

[eager saddle]

No, not if the tail isn’t at your body yet

[golden coral]

And the attack is a bit more efficient than the old attack, could it be a matter of not being used to how well it hits, compared to the old and clunky one?

[eager saddle]

Imagine it as a raptor pouncing you at the start of the jump despite you being at the max range

Let me go find it for you rq

[coarse blaze]

The new attack is also limited to it's flanks, leaving the back and front vulnerable.

I feel like the attack hitting you before connecting is an issue most of the playables have

[golden coral]

I think I know which vid you mean, but it's hard to say if it's "do damage too quick" or if that was a hit, the new attack is a bit better than the old, clunky one

So could be a matter of not being used to the new attack being faster

[coarse blaze]

Stegs footsteps however I do think should be louder when it's bigger for sure.

[eager saddle]

I’ll go test it just to be safe when it hits live

#general-feedback message this was what I meant

[golden coral]

I would test, if we had test servers

But yeah, will have to wait for live

[coarse blaze]

But you getting snuck up on in any sense because you're not being situationally aware should be punished.

But could see it being louder.

[eager saddle]

Also holy I had to scroll up a lot to find it, feedback got SPAMMED

[coarse blaze]

Test server should be a thing during HT, it'd give a lot more consistent feedback I think for balancing.

[eager saddle]

Agreed.

But at the same time I would worry that everyone jumps on that instead of the actual servers

[coarse blaze]

It's so hard to go off a case by case because sometimes the game is just funky.

Also yes and if things don't change people would just use it to sweat for sure.

[golden coral]

Problem is that it could be that he was properly hit, it looks uncertain to me (not like some cases where you can clearly see "that was nowhere near"). And the new attack is faster, so could be a misjudgment of how fast it comes out. But it'd have to be tested better to be more sure.

Could also be intended, the attack is quite telegraphed after all, you should keep distance

[eager saddle]

I personally didn’t see the tail before the death screen

And that would be my problem, nothing else

[coarse blaze]

This goes for steg as a whole, I've genuinely never been killed by a steg as anything other than steg. I just don't go near them unless I'm 100% sure they're not going to kill me.

[eager saddle]

Havent played omni?

[golden coral]

I do see the stego swinging when I'm looking at it, hear and see it start the attack, and if it did catch the rear, then it would hit. Could be a matter of how well you notice it?

[eager saddle]

Mayhaps

I’d be glad to be proven wrong

[golden coral]

At the very least I think it looks like it is attacking, not just "poof, dead", but I could be mistaken on that

[coarse blaze]

I've played everything.

Hunting steg as omni without a good pack isn't worth the risk and I'd just rather kill something else.

[golden coral]

But to be honest, we'd have to see it from both sides to be sure

And preferably in daytime, so we can see things properly

[eager saddle]

But you’ve NEVER hunted a stego as omni then?

[leaden remnant]

i was properly hit

[coarse blaze]

No, I've been on the other side though being hunted as steg by omni.

[eager saddle]

You can join me and my friends for a try then👍🏻

[leaden remnant]

but the instant the anim plays you di

wive seen it with my pack members all the time

[eager saddle]

We cross the whole map in search of steg, usually with like 2 kills in a few hours

[golden coral]

Got any more examples to look at?

[leaden remnant]

im sure i do let me get one

[golden coral]

Just wait until omni gets pounce to pin, then they'll wipe stegos again!

[leaden remnant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UvER0G3x0&lc=UgyMngYZ5dJBdWTqy1x4AaABAg

and a compilation i found not much ago

[coarse blaze]

I know omni can, sometime ago I had an omni get me to half bleed as steg solo. Man was slippery to hit and well throughout.

[coarse blaze]

I'm convinced we're getting another OP omni with that update.

[golden coral]

That looked more like it hit the omni while latched, which I'm honestly not sure if it's meant to do or not. Considering how the attack looks, it's a possibility I'd say.

[leaden remnant]

i saw a pack member die after 3 seconds of being latched

[golden coral]

I was thinking more of the "does damage at the start" claim, and how it should work otherwise, because it'd be odd if it didn't do damage from when you start the attack to the end?

[coarse blaze]

I'm already not a fan of pins so a bigger pin isn't ideal. I'd hate to lose a 3-4 hours because I got pinned by two omni and can't fight back.

[leaden remnant]

we all saw it happen at the same time and he clipped it

[golden coral]

I'm aware, I'm just not sure if it's meant to be or not. Could be in relation to the pounce to pin for all we know.

[leaden remnant]

it'll be a finisher you're good

at least that's what ive found by searching around

[golden coral]

Well, "finisher", we don't know how it'll work to be fair

[coarse blaze]

Like low health? Because low stamina would be awful.

[eager saddle]

I just want terrain to be less good man

[leaden remnant]

ive no idea

[golden coral]

And considering dibbles can, rumor has it, stun adult stegos, I don't know xD

[eager saddle]

Making bucking good

[leaden remnant]

yeahhhhhhh true

[coarse blaze]

You can still fight a lot at 3rd screen it'd be so unfair to just shut them down then and there.

[golden coral]

You can confirm? Because that's some scaling on their knockdown/stun then xD

[eager saddle]

New mixpack incoming

[leaden remnant]

can't really ocnfirm

[golden coral]

Not that I really mind it, it's somewhat funny and I guess it'll keep stegos in check, but it's a hell of a punch up for a 1.5T critter

Makes me wonder if it can stun deino too xD

[coarse blaze]

I'd let someone test the stun on my steg if they didn't get wiped. I haven't checked if it's still there.

[golden coral]

Ah okay, then I'll file it as rumor, but if you can somehow test, by all means do!

But it'd be hilarious if it really is true

[tidal jacinth]

doesn't seem like it luckily, I've had plenty try to stun and tank me

[golden coral]

So at least not stun all the way up to 8T then, at least something!

[vale brook]

@primal heart #balance-feedback message deino has an attack that one shot everything on the roster except itself

its also protected by the fact its basically waterlocked, meaning barely anything can hunt it

[primal heart]

But stego is able to kill another stego in one second

I don't deny that each species has a different way to play, but I don't think stego should be able to dealing such explosive damage

[vale brook]

it has to be able to defend itself from rex

[primal heart]

Yeah, it's been defending against rex for 3 years

[vale brook]

lol it hasnt

it would get mollywhooped by rex without its power swing

its not like stegos are much of a problem anyway, just hold w and trot away

[primal heart]

Two stego with stun ability can protect themself well from a rex

[vale brook]

a stun ability it didnt have until now

[primal heart]

Just don't think 2400 damage is necessary

[vale brook]

to defend itself against rex, it is

stego becomes free walking mcdonalds buffet for rex without that attack

dont wanna get hit by it? dont go near stegos. they're not exactly hard to get away from

[primal heart]

Deino can't chase any thing on land so why don't we give deino 1000 bite force

All my herbivores are killed by herbivores all time,cause carnivore don't have enough damage to kill me,but herbivore does better at kill.

[crisp cloud]

你说的毫无作用,因为在平衡反馈这,几乎全是草龙玩家的拥蹩,一旦提及草龙削弱或者肉龙增强,就有一大群憨批反对,你看看平衡反馈,几乎搞笑的不行.

[vale brook]

because it can already 1 shot everything in game

[primal heart]

So you just ignore Stego can also one shot everything in game

[vale brook]

you can also just... walk away from the stego

[dusky surge]

Lmao even in legacy stego got wasted too

[vale brook]

on god

[dusky surge]

One stego should be able to do that if it can’t outrun Rex

[dusky surge]

No hablo espanol senor

[dusky surge]

It can’t

[primal heart]

You keep talking about rex, but it never shows up

[dusky surge]

Deino can one shot stego, stego can’t one shot stego

[dusky surge]

It’s about to, hence the change to stego

[vale brook]

literally coming after dibble

[primal heart]

And I don't understand why you think stego is qualified to fight rex.That's Triceratops' job

Rex has been an excuse for stegosaurus imbalance for three years

[dusky surge]

Because if it can’t fight and can’t run, it dies

Which is bad for balance

Self reliance is a must for all creatures for good gameplay

[primal heart]

We could also say that Deinosuchus needed to fight Spinosaurus so it needed 2,000 dmg.
Since Spinosaurus will be joining the game in a few years so deino need ability to defend spino now.

[vale brook]

deino will be able to swim away from spino most likely

[primal heart]

Dinochirpus is also a threat

We just give every big herbivore high damage and stun ability.They're better at killing than carnivores.

[vale brook]

again, deino will probably just outswim it

[dusky surge]

deinosuchus can swim away from spino, so it doesn't. As I said before, if it can't flee, it has to fight, and deino can flee, so it's not the same

unless we truly believe stegosaurus is somehow outspeeding rex, it needs the power to fight

deino already has the power to escape spino, so your argument isn't really valid. Deino is in a position to survive basically all future threats. Stego isn't. So stego got the buffs needed, and deino got a buff to drown even larger things, all is well

[keen plover]

good thing every big carnivore will be able to grab

[spark hazel]

Remember during that time when Acro got added and everything had very little HP.
Few swings from a Stego on a Rex, could kill it 😅
Back then, 10 bleed was pretty much a death sentence

[thin mantle]

The alternative would then to make stego FAR faster than it is now in order to enable it to escape rexes consistently, I have a feeling more people would hate this than a stego that can’t kill them because it’s too slow to outpace their trot like we have now

[slim dragon]

Give stego a skateboard, every problem solved

[spark hazel]

@primal heart Deino is also getting a kit upgrade

[regal tulip]

just give stego the damage to kill a rex but slow its movement speed while doing so. Now it can 1v1 a rex if it chooses to hunt it but it cant go around KOSing other dinos

[thin mantle]

it already can't its insanely slow

there isn't anything in the game stego can actually catch up with

[dusky surge]

ermmm, deino???

anyway yea just make stego's movement not cancel its combat stance sound and we're good

[regal tulip]

obv not if you pay attention but i meant like ambush style, like pachys do rn only that they just break your leg and not oneshot you

[slim dragon]

true, nerf stego's speed, and damage, and health

[dusky surge]

which is why it's supposed to make a loud-ass sound

it only does it while standing still for some reason atm, but the point stands, it's supposed to be loud as hell, so anyone can hear or see it coming

[thin mantle]

Thats essentially what deino does only stego is astronomically less effective at it

[dusky surge]

true lol

[thin mantle]

Idk how we can expect players to survive an ambush from liteerally anything if stegos are sneaking up on them

[dusky surge]

honestly rex might be better off than i thought if stego ambushes are so common and easy lol

[thin mantle]

the easiest animal to notice in the roster

[thin mantle]

Yeah just throw that sucker in it'll do fine

animals double stegos speed are getting pounced on by it

Rex is just that but way better

[golden coral]

I imagine it's mostly juvies/subs (and whatever a substego can get) where the issues come in. But that's more so an issue with said juvies/subs being slow most of the time, rather than stego being fast

[cosmic pelican]

Sub stego with a speed mutation is almost identical in speed to a fg diablo and can easily outstam it while being almost 2x its weight.

Its just honestly sad

Theres genuinely nothing the dibble can do if a sub stego wants it dead

[cedar beacon]

Dibble without sparring isnt Dibble

[brave estuary]

@alpine plover Just a reminder, weight = the dino's health

so if they increased diablo's weight, it's health would too

[alpine plover]

It should still weigh more than a damn Teno

kinda ridiculous that weighs less than that

[dusky surge]

@brave estuary @alpine plover they just updated it to now be 2 tons so

[brave estuary]

neat

[primal heart]

Stego sneak attack is so deadly

[alpine plover]

good to know and ty

[halcyon elk]

Give it a bit, it's still in hordetesting

[halcyon elk]

Oh damn.

[cedar beacon]

oh right, maybe after the update fully releases we will get it, just saying btw

[leaden remnant]

@spark quartz dibble can buck

check your keybinds

[golden coral]

You know if bucking is any good again, or still not really worth it? Haven't tested the mutation, not sure if that helps much or not

[leaden remnant]

i've no idea

it does something tho

[slender lion]

@steep warren Increasing their weight is not a good idea, what about teno, pachy, and other dinos that have to deal with that? makes no sense, Diablos are suppose to be hunted in packs smartly plus most of the diablos are dumb so u will get good luck and run into a stupid one and hunt it successfully, I seen other people literally solo those as dilo/utah/carno

[dusky surge]

diablo also just looks heavier than both those animals?

you'd also have to buff teno's weight to compensate for that change

[steep warren]

Fair enough, suppose a trickle up would require other low tiers to get a boost and that starts looking silly. Looking at you, 1.5 legacy dilo

[dusky surge]

basically you'd end up buffing everything, rather than just dibble

[slender lion]

^

I feel like its balanced enough, its just u gotta work a bit more harder to kill dibble which makes sense cause i mean look at it lol

[dusky surge]

and apparently dibble's change is in preperation for a future addition to the roster, or at least is implied

[slender lion]

Wasnt it allo or rex

[dusky surge]

who knows

[steep warren]

yeye, def allo: That secret dino man

[dusky surge]

i hope not but its getting more likely :(

[crisp cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-gif-25866515

[slender lion]

@supple mural whats ur reason for down vote?

[supple mural]

?

I didn't

[slender lion]

On my balance feedback

Oops wrong sorry <3 @supple mural

[supple mural]

Oh lol

[slender lion]

@noble shore Why did u downvote, whats the reason?

[dusky surge]

he literally despises herbivores iirc

i have never seen him upvote anything to do with herbivore buffs

[slender lion]

All the carni mains downvoting my thing without giving a reason and one even adding a laughing emoji

U can just tell what kinda person it is lmfao

[dusky surge]

literally can't even fathom how anyone thinks galli's kick is good

[slender lion]

Right? defenseless af, one latch is all it takes too or ram or bite

[sterile thicket]

@dusky surge @slim dragon you didnt even have time to read it

[slim dragon]

I read all of it

[sterile thicket]

so what did u not like about it

[slim dragon]

And I dislike every part of it apart from the cannibal thing, which imo should be the standard for every cannibal species

Deino doesn't need a buff, and certainly not one to its ability to kill

[sterile thicket]

its for the future

[dusky surge]

it's already set for the future

[sterile thicket]

a rex should fear the waters but as of currently that wouldnt be valable

[sterile thicket]

wdym?

[dusky surge]

it literally doesn't have a single thing present or future that genuinely concerns its survival

[slim dragon]

A rex shouldn't fear being oneshot by an invisible threat just because it went for a drink

[dusky surge]

you could leave it as it is and it'd be fine against pretty much anything the game can throw at it

[sterile thicket]

there are safe places, quite many

totally avoidable

[dusky surge]

also yea, rex should just not be on the menu for deino, at all

deino is a punch-down ambush hunter, rex is bigger than it, rex wins

[sterile thicket]

everything that comes remotely close to the water should pay the price, not a one shot, but a heavy punishment as an 8 ton monster shouldnt eat AI fish or baby tenos

[dusky surge]

it's literally able to drown stegos, adult. It is fine

[sterile thicket]

yh tell that to a quick neck bite from a deino (its a decapitation), but being that this is a game i understood how that wouldnt work

[dusky surge]

You want your big scary rex threat in the water? Spinosaurus

[sterile thicket]

have u seen stegos that taunt us on the shore? you literally get killed in 5 hits from a stego

you cant even attack a 6000 hp steg

imagine a 11 ton t rex..

whats the point for a scary water dino if from juvenile rex you can just stop caring

[slim dragon]

At that point just make the water poisonous for land dinos, it'll save development time

[dusky surge]

And a game needs to be balanced. Deino has an instakill move that can kill things up to 6 tons, a huge biteforce, an insanely high oxygen pool, probably the best swimming speed in the game against everything, an incredibly high bleed resist, the ability to turn effectively invisible, etc

It literally is fine.

[sterile thicket]

the point of deino being in game was for people to consider when to drink

[dusky surge]

Juvi rex would be killed by deino tho

[sterile thicket]

whats the instakill move u talk about...

[slim dragon]

There isn't only deino and rex in the game

[dusky surge]

Yes, unless they're literal colossi

[slim dragon]

What is the point of deino if you're never afraid of water in your entire life when you're playing as one

[sterile thicket]

so a troodon should get instakilled by an 8 ton croc?

[dusky surge]

There comes a point where you just stop being able to deal with the things that come to the shore. No amount of affirmative action is letting you kill an adult brachi as a deino

[dusky surge]

What?

[sterile thicket]

that doesnt exist

nor is it reliable

[dusky surge]

????

brachi is confirmed on the game's roster

[sterile thicket]

8 ton crocs should be able to fight

[dusky surge]

they are

[sterile thicket]

do u think real crocs are worms?

[sterile thicket]

adult dinosaurs

[dusky surge]

why would that be the conclusion

[sterile thicket]

you said that

[quiet smelt]

I like the stealth move idea, very nice. But crocs are quite strong at the moment with their drag ability being upped when both creatures are swimming. I wouldn’t say the rivers arent feared.

[slim dragon]

This escalated quickly
I lost it

[dusky surge]

I think I'm being strawmanned? It's hard to tell

[sterile thicket]

anyway its your opinion dont rlly care to argue about it when its rlly just BSing at this point, play adult deino for once in your life and u will spot the issues by now, in the future it will only get worse

[dusky surge]

I played adult deino, it's VERY strong

[sterile thicket]

if u say so

[dusky surge]

Unless I decide to be a fool and sprint to fight a stego on land, I'm fine

The biggest threat to deino is deino, which proves how uncontestable it is

[sterile thicket]

i pointed that those would be more for the future, so yh

NOW it is not necessarily needed but it needs to be considered

[quiet smelt]

Talk like a big kid Tactical, they’re not BSing they’re expressing their opinion. ur able to be respectful and disagree at the same time.

[sterile thicket]

their points dont even make sense lol

i literally looked at them insta downvote

how can i take them seriously lol

[quiet smelt]

To you maybe, you can still be respectful about it. No need to insult their views on the playable

[sterile thicket]

you wanna tell me they read it in 20 seconds? total lies

[dusky surge]

I'm a fast reader.

[sterile thicket]

no they just seen deino suggestion and insta downvoted

[sterile thicket]

ok bro keep it up

[dusky surge]

LMAO you're the one finding every reason I'm invalid for disliking a single feedback post lol

[quiet smelt]

You shouldn’t be posting reviews if you aren’t open to opposing opinion, whether you think it’s justified or not.

[sterile thicket]

did i say anything bad to you

you told what u liked and that was that

[quiet smelt]

No, but don’t have a go at this other guy for trying to have a discussion with you haha.

[sterile thicket]

and i clarified again how the suggestion was more for the next years not necessarily by next week

[slim dragon]

Remember kids : if there is no aggression, there is no conversation

[dusky surge]

Deino doesn't need all that for the next years

[sterile thicket]

yh ok

enjoy your 15 ton t rex

[dusky surge]

It is literally a playable perfectly designed to adapt to anything the roster throws at it

[slim dragon]

Your suggestion will only be needed if spino is somehow faster than deino or if sucho is inexplicably stronger than it

[dusky surge]

Don't see what T-Rex weight would have to do with anything

[dusky surge]

Neither of which should be the case

[quiet smelt]

Rex won’t be an issue for it I don’t think. When Rex swims it won’t be able to bite under its belly or behind itself. Easy pickings for a croc, just as intended.

[sterile thicket]

are you even ok with deino bites having a chance of fractures or are u just completely on the downvoting part

[slim dragon]

Fractures aren't chance-based

[dusky surge]

Well, firstly, fracture chance ain't a thing

[sterile thicket]

weight = HP

and deino can hardly touch fg stego

[quiet smelt]

You could maybe argue for a charge bite for the croc that induces a fracture, but in its current state I don’t think it’s needed. It’s an effective killer as it is.

[dusky surge]

Deino can literally drown it now. It has well over half the roster in its kill range, and moreso if they're not adult

[dusky surge]

Charge bite for deino could be cool, I've advocated for such a thing for a while to replace land lunge

[slim dragon]

Charge lunge

[sterile thicket]

well i just said it so people would not get hot if i state that with every bite you get fractured

[slim dragon]

Is that what you want ?

[quiet smelt]

Deino can’t touch a stego on land, yes, but riverbank ambush is not the only thing it is meant to do. It’s meant to be a in-river hunter too.

In the water, which stegos often enter from my experience, crocs rule the roost.

[sterile thicket]

so lets clarify a bit

the suggestion was long anyway so i didnt rlly wanna speak my mind

if u would allow me to say everything properly im up for it

[dusky surge]

Literally, again, an uncontested playable in the water, and likely will be until spino decides to exist

[sterile thicket]

i will slice it up for u

[sterile thicket]

i stated how the changes would be for when spino gets added

[quiet smelt]

Even then, Croc and Spino have two different skill sets and will likely be a very fun fight haha

[dusky surge]

Except those changes go the complete opposite direction of how devs want the spino vs deino fight to go, which is deino sees spino and it gets as far away as possible or dies

It's not a fight, it's a murder, and deino is pretty much always the victim

[sterile thicket]

So I stated how deino bite would mean a fracture or heavy bleeding

im not saying that only deinos should deal that

rex, giga, spino might a well have the same effect because their bites are strong

[quiet smelt]

Mhmm. Deino is meant to be almost a psuedo-apex from the looks of it. It doesn’t need to be able to slaughter stegos and things like spino. It’s not an apex.

[dusky surge]

here's two artworks made of spino just shredding deino. Deino doesn't win

[dusky surge]

Well it's also a punch-down predator

[sterile thicket]

at this point your gaslighting

[dusky surge]

It's bad at picking on its own size or higher

[sterile thicket]

spino will never be able to easily out compete deino

[dusky surge]

How is that gaslighting that's DEV RENDERS

[quiet smelt]

Yeah exactly, it’s incredibly deadly for what it’s made for.

[sterile thicket]

no matter what devs say

[sterile thicket]

so by a funny dino stancing you came with that conclusion

[quiet smelt]

I disagree. Deino isn’t designed to hunt large carnivores, as you even established in your suggestion.

[sterile thicket]

sure spino would be able to kill a deino in a long fight, ok

[sterile thicket]

so deino is practically a crocodile ok? are we agreeing on that?

[dusky surge]

I mean... Spino dwarfs basically every other apex predator by a significant margin and has been stated by devs to designed to win those fights basically every time. Deino is designed to fight things below its size, spino is like, COLOSSAL compared to it

[dusky surge]

Technically, a gator, but yea

[sterile thicket]

its none but let me say this

crocodiles can fight great whites that are triple their weight and so so the same size

alligators hunt buffalo and zebras that are considerably larger in size maybe even weight

so now you tell me

[quiet smelt]

In a fantasy game where there are predators 2x larger and stronger than it. Being a crocodile doesn’t mean anything.

If we wanna go the paleobiology route, gators likely werent top predators against larger land based dinosaurs. They were likely opportunistic hunters, not selective predators.

[sterile thicket]

that a prehistoric 8+ ton croc wouldnt even dare to attack a rex if needed?

so thats your logic

[dusky surge]

and this is a video game that needs to be balanced, and all animals need a weakness, and deino's is "I am bad at punching up" and that's it so far

[quiet smelt]

If needed, yes, but that doesn’t mean it would be successful.

[sterile thicket]

deino's weakness should be starving

[slim dragon]

Square cube law comes to mind
As well as documentaries bias

[dusky surge]

That's literally every dinosaur lol

[quiet smelt]

A real life example is crocodiles against hippos (a herbivore, but similar larger creature situation). Crocs are not adapt at killing larger aggressive prey, even to this day.

[sterile thicket]

well i mean it differently

[dusky surge]

In fact, deino has an EXTREMELY slow hunger drain compared to most other species

[sterile thicket]

that you would need to actively hunt large things

[slim dragon]

Except deino because it has the longest hunger time and infinite fish

[sterile thicket]

yes ik

[dusky surge]

And, with the addition of the larger animals, it has more large prey items to hunt and kill

[sterile thicket]

which is balanced considering that you can hardly get anything but elite fish rn

[dusky surge]

So rex would be a boon for it, because sub-rex is a very hefty meal for a deino

[sterile thicket]

but not reliably

you told me that deinos would absolutely get destroyed in a 1v1 with a spino

[dusky surge]

no carnivore has food reliability really

[quiet smelt]

Crocodilians and gators hunt large “passive” animals, such as gazelle, buffalo, etc. Not large aggressive creatures. They don’t actively select to kill aggressive predators/herbivores, even in modern day

[dusky surge]

because that's what the devs want

and if deino starts beating spino consistently, either spino will be buffed or deino nerfed

[sterile thicket]

leopards, humans, sharks, other crocs..

[sterile thicket]

or vice versa

[meager glen]

The spino is so freaking big omg

[slim dragon]

(These are far from passive)

[sterile thicket]

however i did not talk about that, i advocated for common sense

if you get bit by a large carnivore you should get a heavy bleeding and maybe a fracture

[quiet smelt]

Of course but you know what I mean, when compared to something akin to a hippo.

[sterile thicket]

whats the problem with that

[dusky surge]

im also advocating for common sense, like not letting the uncontested water monster also fight the entire roster for no reason other than a gator power fantasy

[sterile thicket]

im not even biased to deino

[sterile thicket]

never advocated for deinos to run out of water to hunt rex

[meager glen]

Will their an available animation for attacking the deino as a spino?

[quiet smelt]

IMO even with their current design crocs will be able to hunt rex just fine when the rex swims.

[sterile thicket]

its a difference from being able to wait underwater and being able to put up a fight in case of anything, or just limiting yourself to baby t rex all because you dont think a massive croc wouldnt attack a very vulnerable rex

[sterile thicket]

ok

im not biased i literally told u

from my view

[quiet smelt]

No one said ur biased.

Anyway, i've expressed my opinion :D toodles

[sterile thicket]

sure a fg spino could kill a fg deino, but that should also go vice versa depending on environment and player

[dusky surge]

probably not, tbh, but you can avoid such colossal preds so

[sterile thicket]

but spino just swimming ina river KOSing every fg deino just because u think spino is cool, thats dumb sorry to tell you

[dusky surge]

another issue with allowing deino to punch up to spino or rex level also means that the deino v deino matchup becomes SO much less engaging than it already it is

[sterile thicket]

and you made it sound like fg deinos wouldnt stand a chance, like thats crazy sorry to tell it like this

[dusky surge]

Ain't my choice mate

[quiet smelt]

Situation dependent, of course, what I mean to say is deino wont be slaughtered by rex/spino provided the deino isn't an idiot and running right into their jaws.

[meager glen]

That would also be funny to watch as well don’t get it twisted lol

[dusky surge]

It is literally stated deino must flee spino if it sees spino

[sterile thicket]

deinos would be easy to kill in a situation like that

[sterile thicket]

on land maybe in water no

[quiet smelt]

I dont know if you realise what punch up/down means.

[sterile thicket]

like if they do such a thing you might as well not play deino at all

which completely kills the motiv for a croc

[dusky surge]

on land it can't flee or fight, in water it can flee

[sterile thicket]

i dont think that would be final, that sounds unbelievable

[dusky surge]

this is, again, not my choice or opinion, it is how the devs have stated the matchup WILL go

[sterile thicket]

thats completely non sensical lol

[quiet smelt]

What, that a psuedo-apex will often die to an apex? I dont see how that doesn't make sense.

[sterile thicket]

just remove deino already

[dusky surge]

well, it can escape spino, which is the point. It swims MUCH faster

Spino is a bottom walker, deino is a VERY fast swimmer, spino can't keep up

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't forced to fight everything it sees...

[sterile thicket]

spino should be an apex thats the first thing, the second thing would be that deino needs to put fear into fg rex if they just feel like drinking from whenever

[quiet smelt]

Likely will have better stam in water than a spino too i imagine.

[dusky surge]

^

[sterile thicket]

no no, they will make spino a speed boat

just because they hate deino

their opinions point to that

[quiet smelt]

Uh huh... No i dont think so haha

[dusky surge]

they have stated spino is a poor swimmer and instead walks on the bottom of the water

[sterile thicket]

like bro remove deino already if u dont like it into the game

[slim dragon]

[dusky surge]

spino is also intended to be a very slow moving brawler type animal

[sterile thicket]

yes but deino should be able to put up a fight

sure crocs tend to flee

[slim dragon]

If only I could do that

[quiet smelt]

No, it shouldn't. It should be able to flee, it isn't made to hunt Spino, nor does it need to.

[sterile thicket]

but dont tell me you think that a fg deino would be scared shitless just because a spino is around, that is crazy non sensical

[sterile thicket]

never said to hunt

i said if a rex wants to drink water, HE SHOULD AT LEAST have the need to consider it

[quiet smelt]

Makes sense to me.

Smaller predator is scared of bigger predator, so it runs away.

[sterile thicket]

crocs hunt only bigger things than themselves so that doesnt rlly matter

[quiet smelt]

Rex will have enough to worry abt with Spino, it doens't need to be also scared of deino imo.

[sterile thicket]

and irl he just has to bite a rex's neck and he's done for

[keen plover]

As long as deino can escape every threat then it's fine lol. It can already hunt like 70% of the roster that gets within range of waters + even more when they're swimming. Also elder deino will exist which means you'll be able to grab even larger creatures

[sterile thicket]

animals know their powers and u can be suree deinos knew how powerful their bites were

[slim dragon]

90% now with the new lunge thresholds

[keen plover]

• elder deino that will drag larger things lol

[sterile thicket]

because so many fg stegos actively swim

[quiet smelt]

In the end this isnt real life, its a fast paced pvp survival. Deino being able to square up against everything is a bad idea and boring design.

[slim dragon]

bruh

[dusky surge]

they swim enough for the change to be very substantial

[slim dragon]

Ah yes let's mention irl

[sterile thicket]

yh so then if this isnt real life I want deino to actively KOS any spino in range, your argument doesnt make sense as I can state such things myself

[slim dragon]

And compare this game with animals none of us has ever seen before to make a point

[keen plover]

Lets not use irl as a basis for balance. We literally have a carnivore in game that would make everything else unplayable if it was realistic (carno)

[sterile thicket]

you either make it completely fantasy or as real as possible

[sterile thicket]

yes thats what im saying

[quiet smelt]

No, because that would be a boring design haha. Just because it is a fantasy game doesn't mean that you can't have niches.

[slim dragon]

Well irl during the 25 million years span that stego existed, only 6 of them died to crocs, and they were juveniles

[quiet smelt]

No, you're constantly referencing to IRL crocs as if that is the standard. We are disagreeing.

[sterile thicket]

so then what would deino players do in the next couple of years? be scared of any "bigger" dino that comes around? what if a rex would just swim and kill deinos?

[quiet smelt]

Deinos are faster in water and can... run?

[keen plover]

Hope that you're an elder deino so you can drag them i guess

[sterile thicket]

why would an 8 ton croc run

[dusky surge]

its fight or flight not fight or fight

[quiet smelt]

Because a larger more dangerous predator is threatening it...

[sterile thicket]

elder deino that would automatically die in like 30 minutes of gameplay sure

[dusky surge]

because it's being chased by a 15 ton kaiju

[sterile thicket]

ok, i will bite his neck therefore he will have a massive bleeding. Now what?

[dusky surge]

it kills you because its bigger and stronger

[sterile thicket]

so why should deinos NOT deal massive bleedings and fractures?

[keen plover]

that's not how elders work lol

[dusky surge]

why should spino not?

[sterile thicket]

that doesnt work like that because this game is fantasy!

[quiet smelt]

Tactical I suggest we end this discussion, you aren't budging to the responses people are giving for your suggestion. It's a bit of a circle now :)

[slim dragon]

Doesn't need to, won't ever need to

[sterile thicket]

i literally stated how every big carnivore should..

[dusky surge]

this game is fantasy where you get killed by things bigger and stronger than you

[dusky surge]

so spino does it, but better, and deino loses, because spino is bigger

and it is stronger

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message this would kinda ruin the game for everyone else

[sterile thicket]

yh ok so i want this fantasy to get changed a bit differently and that would bee easily done because we dont have to account for reality, ok bro

[leaden remnant]

not to mention that if deino had that much bite force it would pulverize its own skull by biting

[slim dragon]

Sshhhh

[sterile thicket]

how so

[leaden remnant]

(the 100k bite force thing is literally fake)

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-exactly-what-im-saying-chido-nwokocha-gary-marshall-borders-sistas-youre-right-gif-16191671

[sterile thicket]

do you know how many Newtons did a deino bite have?

[leaden remnant]

100kn of bite force absolutely destroys everything

[leaden remnant]

less than a rex

[leaden remnant]

any material would turn to nothing

[slim dragon]

You just want to change the rules from "bigger one wins the fight" to "deino wins every fight" and that's not biased towards deino ?

[leaden remnant]

including its own skull

[sterile thicket]

i said that the current 500 needs to get to 1000 in order to remotely compete with rex's that would be prob higher because ofc it will be

[slim dragon]

No, and you don't either

[quiet smelt]

Backing u up :)

[leaden remnant]

appreciate it brother

[dusky surge]

hes not biased he swears

[quiet smelt]

The 100k thing is an EXTREMELY high estimate and not accurate at all.

[leaden remnant]

imma be honest i dont think it should compete with rexes

[sterile thicket]

nope, i said that maybe if a 8 ton croc that in reality had a 105K N bite force should maybe MAYBE deal some more damage to your beloved t rex that literally really has no armor on its neck

[leaden remnant]

drown them like stegos? maybe

[leaden remnant]

it had 10% of that bite force tho

100kn is enough to make everything turn to sand

[dusky surge]

if it can drown rex like stego, it can also grab other deinos

imagine how that'd go for deino gameplay

[leaden remnant]

thats what im thinking

[slim dragon]

Never said it shouldn't
Actually I only mentioned rex once and it was about the ability to lunge apexes

[quiet smelt]

IRL crocs have only 16kN, and deinosuchus has an estimated 18k-100kN, which is a massive range and not indicative of the actual animal.

[slim dragon]

You shall not play ! No ! YOU shall not play !

[sterile thicket]

So a rex goes to drink, I as I deino would have the option to bite at his neck therefore dealing more damage burning more of my stamina (being just a hold, not how the lunge works now) and that should make the rex either flee or maybe attack back if he so choses but that would probably mean death

[leaden remnant]

irl crocs have 6kn and that's the saltwater croc

which also is the biggest bite force registered on present animals

[sterile thicket]

i didnt say that in my suggestion

[dusky surge]

imagine growing your deino to full only to be grabbed by jackass mcgee and brought to bastard billy to bite you to death while you can't fight back

because you're within deino's grab range as a deino

[sterile thicket]

.

[slim dragon]

How did you manage to write that without triggering the bot

[sterile thicket]

you dont want to read what i clarified you only read what u like reading

[dusky surge]

and then rex would bite your neck with its advertised crush move, pin you to the ground, and kill you

[quiet smelt]

Google says around 16k on most articles, but regardless, the point stands

[slim dragon]

Biting the neck already does extra damage, so there is no mechanic needed

[leaden remnant]

i see

[dusky surge]

i know the bot's openings

[leaden remnant]

16k is almost deino bite force tho so yeah it must be wrong

however i agree

[sterile thicket]

no, crocs have bone plates on its back + it has a massive bleeding so it will need to flee and maybe learn one of the tens of safe spots to drink at

[leaden remnant]

it is a lot

[slim dragon]

Although I think neck should suffer 2X bleed damage instead of the normal 1.5X like head does

[sterile thicket]

???

clarify

[leaden remnant]

deino bite force is 18kn

[dusky surge]

remember, this game is fantasy, so rex will just crush you

[leaden remnant]

so a saltwater croc having 16kn is impossible

[sterile thicket]

aaa u said KN

[dusky surge]

the back plates don't matter

[quiet smelt]

That's the low estimate, keep that in mind.

[leaden remnant]

yus k meaning thousands

[leaden remnant]

true true

[sterile thicket]

gaslighting counts as being disrespectful btw

[dusky surge]

i'm LITERALLY using your words how is that gaslighting

[sterile thicket]

your logic is flawed anyway

[slim dragon]

XD

[quiet smelt]

Brother what, he's not gaslighting haha.

[leaden remnant]

minor inconvenience

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-princess-bride-inigo-montoya-meaning-are-you-sure-of-that-gif-7536490

[sterile thicket]

no you said that somehow because this is "fantasy" i cant come up with irl stuff

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-laugh-heman-motu-gif-22603313

[sterile thicket]

and i just used your own crap against you

[dusky surge]

so you gaslit me

[quiet smelt]

Productive discussions. love to see it.

[slim dragon]

We're all going insane because of one person

[sterile thicket]

no i just showed you how that doesnt make sense as an argument for anything because someone disagreeing with you can simply say the same thing

[dusky surge]

who isn't deino biased btw

[sterile thicket]

I am up for anything but they clearly just dont like deino, they insta downvoted it after all

[quiet smelt]

@slim dragon @dusky surge
Gonna specifically talk to y'all since I find you two lovely to talk to!
What is your hopes for the match up with deino and rex if rex starts swimming? Don't think I caught it

Im personally undecided on how it should go balance-wise

[sterile thicket]

mr indo said that spino should mass kos fg deinos

thats his sincere opinion how can i take this guy seriosuly LOL

[dusky surge]

i honestly reckon deino swims away and just lets it pass, unless it's young, in which case it minces it

[dusky surge]

never said this

[keen plover]

is it mass kos if the deinos can just swim awy?

[sterile thicket]

you said that spino should be able to massacre a deino

[quiet smelt]

The young part is super fitting for the punch down design too

[keen plover]

Like sounds like you're swimming into the spino

[dusky surge]

i didn't say it SHOULD. I said it WILL, because the devs WANT it to

[slim dragon]

I think rex will die, by virtue of not being able to fight back against a submerged deino
Or survive long enough to go back to shore and run the F away (or kill the deino if it has enough health left to do so)

[sterile thicket]

well i dont think just because spino is "larger" he should not be harmed at all

[keen plover]

Same way a carno is harmed fighting a cera. Ultimately it wins

[sterile thicket]

and their necks arent protected either

[quiet smelt]

Yeah, i agree with the idea that if the rex is swimming across a massive body of water, deinos will be able to take advantage of that. In rivers though I think rex's will generally be okay

[sterile thicket]

you cant bite a croc by his neck unless you flip him which is impossible with an 8 tonner

[slim dragon]

What's this fixation on necks anyway ?

[sterile thicket]

nor by his head

[keen plover]

It's a game. They can just make it happen lol

[quiet smelt]

There isn't a 'neck' hitbox in the game, so idk why you're referencing that.

[sterile thicket]

deino should not be able to necessarily drag things bigger than his 50% blah blah, however I should have the option to lunge at the drinking dino like in a holding manner, that action would deal heavy bleeding and maybe a skull fracture, that doesnt mean its a complete disaster for the attacked dino, but there should be the possibility that if the guy was already low HP, he might die

[dusky surge]

he a lil freaky

[sterile thicket]

did not ever say that deinos should easily grab rex and just drown them

[slim dragon]

There actually is, but it's the same damage modifier as the head, except for pachy and dibnle

[dusky surge]

there is actually iirc, but its small and headbites do more

[sterile thicket]

@dusky surge @slim dragon

[dusky surge]

you can also just bite

[quiet smelt]

Oh okay! Even then though, that's basically included in headshots. You can't specifically grapple the neck.

[sterile thicket]

well this holding animation would be like multiple bites, this would burn my stamina faster

so maybe if my attack is unsuccesful on a spino, he might just come into the water and kill me because im 0 stamina

that would be undertandable

[dusky surge]

but why would it need this besides giving deino more riskless encounters

[quiet smelt]

What stops a rex from turning its head and just biting? I definitely won't be lunging any rexes.

[sterile thicket]

its not riskless, a croc shouldn't have a "risk" like you your omni being chased by a pack of rex

[sterile thicket]

cuz you literally hold his neck?

your massive skull that would probably be hundreds of kgs heavier?

ur massive bite force?

ur massive body weight hanging by your neck?

[quiet smelt]

I don't think that is a great design then; again, crocs should be fearful of rexes and shouldn't be able to lunge them and hunt them.

[dusky surge]

^

everything needs to fear something

[sterile thicket]

its one thing for me to camp a spot for 2h in hope that I might deal some bleed damage to a rex and its another thing to just go on land and hunt t rex

[quiet smelt]

Again, deinos have a massive advantage over most the roster. Having something they lose to is a good thing.

[sterile thicket]

maybe the other deinos actively trying to kill me?

or maybe ur beloved spinos?

[sterile thicket]

other deinos

[quiet smelt]

One thing. In a roster of what, 40 dinos?

[dusky surge]

i dont actually like spino

[sterile thicket]

i just said that you should get diet necessarily from deino meat while being a deino

[sterile thicket]

well lets take sauropods

argentinosaurus is 140 tons i think

[dusky surge]

hwat

[quiet smelt]

Sauropods arent carnivores. It's quite different.

[sterile thicket]

I DONT THINK a deino would be able to easily kill argentinosaurus

[sterile thicket]

you just said 40 dinos

and sauropods are planned

[leaden remnant]

65

[quiet smelt]

Deino is not an apex, it needs to be hunted by something. Herbivores don't count.

[sterile thicket]

you didnt state 40 carnivores

[sterile thicket]

other deinos which it already is

[quiet smelt]

1 carnivore.

[dusky surge]

1 carnivore that is the same carnivore lol

[sterile thicket]

yeah which can literally kill you easily if he's bigger, you got 11 hours to survive since you cant even have a diet with deino

[dusky surge]

even apexes will be hunted by other apexes

[quiet smelt]

Non-apex creatures (which is what deino is) should be at risk to multiple apex carnivores if they are risk takers.

[dusky surge]

why is deino an exception

besides, y'know, bias

[sterile thicket]

well they never stated that deino would be an apex, it currently is at apex

[sterile thicket]

keep telling yourself that

[quiet smelt]

It wont be staying that way, its going to be a psuedo-apex.

[sterile thicket]

and i can bet they will actually increasee deino's weight anyway

all i asked for is an animation that would deal some bleed damage to something larger than 50% of your deino's weight and you guys felt like its too much, like bro ok (its clearly bias right)

[sterile thicket]

who said that

[slim dragon]

That's not what was written in your suggestion

[sterile thicket]

then I want my deino to be faster with 1 km/h on land

oh wait no, thats bias!

[sterile thicket]

well did i ever state how deinos should somehow chase 10 rex on land?

i literally hit the word limit

maybe u read it wrong since u only gave it 20 seconds of reading

[slim dragon]

No, neither did I state that chickens should be able to spit fireballs

[sterile thicket]

so what words did you get triggered by from by suggestion

[dusky surge]

you said the only thing that should threaten deino is deino, and EVERYTHING should be availible prey as long as it drinks for deino to hunt

yea thats bias

[sterile thicket]

cuz maybe i rlly stated crap there and now i will edit it with what i rlly meant

at the end of the day i dont have a diploma on english

[sterile thicket]

so a massive mouth with an incredible bite force should do anything to a rex?

[slim dragon]

Doubled biteforce, aquaphobia sickness, charge attack, fracturing bite, stealth mode

[sterile thicket]

im up for more deinos having features just for them

but i wont make suggestions on all of them at the same time

[dusky surge]

it will do something

[keen plover]

stealth mode is pretty hilarious considering how easy it is to go up to drinking prey lol

[quiet smelt]

@vagrant magnet I second your suggestion for sure. Ankles definitely need to be a major weak spot.

[vagrant magnet]

@minor condor unfortunately I think it's a frog issue as their hit box is pretty impossible for any dino. Same goes for crabs

[minor condor]

Oh no, I probably should have clarified that it wasn't just frogs it was just in general.

Idk if I'm just a skill issue but my direct bite just flat out don't work half the time

[pale aspen]

#balance-feedback message cerato has the perfect tool to deal with dibble as maintaining food and diets is not easy allowing bile to dismantle all of dibble's buffs from its diets lowering its damage to just 180 bite force, plus the reduced damage from larger species makes cerato quite the opponent for our potato. @analog mirage

i have yet to really struggle with cera v dibble match up unless ofc its a herd, but dealing with 1-3 dibbles is not too hard of an achievement in a grp of 3-4 ceras

[analog mirage]

Vomit is not a great way to deal with stuff. You are not ensured to rid nutrients with a single vomit. Also even if its nutrients are drained it takes awhile to get malnutrition going

It also can still just be knocked over easily

I also dislike encouraging one specific mutation that makes me better against other species

“Go this mutation or you will have harder time in fights”

[pale aspen]

unfortunately things mutate to deal with things they couldnt before, making a more dangerous play style more manageable

[pale aspen]

most of this really hasnt been an issue, time is money and sooner or later the dibble will starve or need water, water messes with blood pool and without diets that blood pool is going everywhere but up, maybe its a skill diff

[dusky surge]

@rigid tulip you are aware that bary is smaller than carno and around a similar weight to cerato, right? It's not really filling any gaps

[glossy sapphire]

Full grown full hp Omni getting one shot by a Herra, is this normal/intended?

[dusky surge]

Yes, that's how it is. You have to be careful for them, bait them, and then kill them once they hit the ground. They are one-strike ambush predators that lose their chance if they fail

[glossy sapphire]

Awesome thanks for the fast response, was just the first time it's happened and was utterly gobsmacked and confused as to wtf killed them at first lmfao

[dusky surge]

Ya, highly dense areas with nearby trees/elevated surfaces should be where you're at your most cautious

[shadow vortex]

The most upsetting death to herreras is when you notice them in the last moment on a tree branch, but you’re speeding up too slow to dodge…

[toxic zinc]

#balance-feedback message

Is game mechanics to make the game more fun and engaging the priority in this gaming community or does this community want other things cause I don't see any issues with this other then weird introverts or the devs not wanting to do it

and yes there should be a mute option duh

[dusky surge]

humans are getting proxy VC, if that's any consolation, but dinos won't

the dino chat feature isn't really designed for VC at all

[toxic zinc]

but that is so idiotic if your pushing Pack playstyles

I would understand if the majority of dinos were like the Rex and Spinos and were mainly solo

[dusky surge]

it just doesn't work well with how dino communication is done. You can't replicate human speech well with animal sounds

at least what we have now it's type, send, sound

[toxic zinc]

WDYM you just play the Mic for the same species and seperate the audio to the already made generic audio already played when you type in chat

[dusky surge]

how? like how do you do that with VC, without a raptor just barking at machspeed

[toxic zinc]

like a pack of Raptors will communcate in ENGLISH and every other species around them will hear RAPTOR NOISES simple

[dusky surge]

okay but that's not really that simple though

[toxic zinc]

so its a needed gameplay feature I and I bet alot of people aren't getting the game or playing it cause there waiting for the SOLO REX cause I ain't playing with this outdated chat features

[dusky surge]

do they bark when the person speaks? When they start speaking? When they stop speaking? Both?

Does it depend on the VC button or voice detection? How do you hear the person over the raptor barks, unless you specifically mute raptor barks for other raptors?

[toxic zinc]

like aye if the devs wanna focus on close ups of the dinos rather than actual gameplay features thats on them im out

[dusky surge]

Like this system, again, does not at all elegantly mesh with the ideas so far

[toxic zinc]

Sure a feature that's existed for 20 years is hard lmao

Call of duty and indie devs can do it but the isle devs can only do it with a text chat UE5 has many tools even for beginners to help them 😄

[dusky surge]

it's not about how easy it is to actually slap VC in

i know that much is easy

the difficulty is actually meshing that system with the current communciation system seamlessly

it feels like you're focused on it as just an idea and not understanding how little proximity voice chat actually cooperates with the way the game itself handles communication

yes, technically, it is easy. It comes down more to the gameplay-side than the functional ease of implementation

you can do it on humans because humans actually TALK like that, so there's no need to struggle with the "hows" and "what ifs" of it all

hell, we know for a fact humans will have proxy VC which will sound like static to non-human players

[golden coral]

If dinos need better communication (and even humans) then more calls/options and maybe even bodysignals/handsignals (for humans) would be good. Not everyone likes to talk to others after all, as you pointed out. So might be better to offer more and detailed calls and other alternatives than just adding mic. With that said, could of course add mic as well, not like that would be a problem, just that it might not be just that and call it a day.

[toxic zinc]

There's not meshing cause there's no communication system besides the text chat

[toxic zinc]

Of course there should be a mute option in general but letting the game not have features cause some people don't want to hear them is walking backwards packs need communication and humans definitely do

[golden coral]

On top of that, you don't need to write out things, you can already use the current calls and body language plenty well enough, even better if you have already talked and sorted out a few signals and so on to work with

[golden coral]

Like I said, there's not really an issue with adding mic, but there should also be other non mic options added for those that prefer that then

[toxic zinc]

LMAO imma wave my tail to tell my bros there's a rex there

[dusky surge]

you'd be surprised how much simply using the 4 call can communicate. I literally can warn my entire pack of danger by pushing a button

[golden coral]

No, you just use the danger call and run away. If the others don't catch the "danger, let's run" call and also start to run, that's on them. Though in the case of new stego, yes, you could see a fellow stego raise it's tail and go "hm, maybe I ought to pay attention"

[toxic zinc]

LMAO we can't have voice chat for humans and packs cause we can already dance and text to the bois

[golden coral]

As a matter of fact, that's already my reaction when I'm around other stegos and someone charges, it's either "something is threatening us all" or, currently not unlikely, "this guy might be planning to kill me"

[golden coral]

I don't think I ever said we can't have voice chat, merely that it's not needed since you can communicate already in various ways, and that those ways should in any case be improved upon, since not everyone would like to use voice chat anyway

[toxic zinc]

I gotta tell the R6 devs about this like bro you don't need vc when you have pings

[dusky surge]

why do you keep comparing competitive FPSes to this game which literally couldn't be further from that genre lol

[toxic zinc]

We took vc out of sea of thieves cause we think chat wheels and text chat and most of all emotes are enough to communicate 👍

[golden coral]

Ever heard of a game called Deep Rock Galactic? You'd be surprised how well you can communicate with pings/voice lines the dwarves say, and a simple "Rock and stone" salute (which can mean pretty much anything you need it to mean, and people will get it anyway). Probably not a perfect comparison, but I can tell you that you don't need to write in chat, much less speak in voice chat, to communicate with randoms, given alternatives

[toxic zinc]

LMAO nope

[golden coral]

But in any case, adding more non voice chat options, such as expanded calls (which really should be a thing), does not mean voice chat can't or won't be added as well

[toxic zinc]

Guys we took vc out of CSGO 2 cause we thought text chat and chat wheel was enough

[golden coral]

So I'm not sure why there'd be a conflict in the first case. Might as well add better and more options aside from voice chat, and add voice chat as well

[dusky surge]

None of these are remotely comparable

These comparisons are just bizarre

[golden coral]

You might want to check the game out, it's really good!

[toxic zinc]

Pack gameplay team gameplay bruh really thinks animals change team gameplay 😭

[golden coral]

It's not even that, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them actually would be perfectly fine without voice chat, even more so when you play with people that kind of "know the drill" as it were. At some point you don't even need to talk, you just know what to do

But there's no real reason to argue over it, we can have both voice chat and other options

[toxic zinc]

Exactly you need VC in those games or there not viable they'll lose most of there population just cause of the loss of voice communication

[golden coral]

I'd like to see more calls, to be a bit more specific, and emotes might be a thing, plus what you can do with body language already (and it's not that difficult at times to read what someone is planning to do)

[golden coral]

Literally said you don't need it, they'd be viable without.

[toxic zinc]

Your a loud minority most people in the gaming community want voice communication and to mute that communication too

[golden coral]

But if they always had, then sure, people would miss it and be upset, that much I've no doubt

[golden coral]

Sure, but again, I did not argue that it wasn't a wanted feature, just that it wasn't needed, and that you already can communicate quite well in the game as it stands

You're the one that seem to desperately need voice chat (which you can do on discord anyway) to function in game

[toxic zinc]

This game is dead bro

[dusky surge]

Also you keep saying "tell x to remove VC" which is weird because we're simply discussing VC being added, not being removed

What they have is a global, team-based VC (or for sea of thieves, a local proximity VC with no team limits)

What you're suggesting is a local proximity, team-based VC with unique dinosaurs with specific call ranges which mute the calls of said dinos so you can actually hear what the other guy is saying and also manage to accurately express to the opponent that you're speaking to your teammate only using one generic call, all while not spamming said call and adequately communicating what is happening to outsiders.

[golden coral]

And I've never argued we can't or shouldn't have voice chat, so you're upset for no reason, I've literally, repeatedly, said we can have both voice chat and other options

[toxic zinc]

Like "it doesn't need that" doesn't apply when your community is dying

[golden coral]

For some reason you seem to not quite get that we can both add voice chat, develop calls/emotes/body language, and have both options, working well no matter which one you prefer to use

[golden coral]

Yeah.... no, no it's not

[dusky surge]

I love proximity voice chat, it is literally one of my favourite features in most games, hence my excitement for The Isle adding it to humans, but I just don't think it works on dinosaurs given the gameplay restrictions

[golden coral]

What are you even on about? Where are you getting this from?

[golden coral]

You know, it would be interesting if they changed it so voice chat makes the ingame call, but text chat does not

Give a reason to use text over voice, for stealth at the cost of speed or something

[dusky surge]

Ehhh, see I kinda hate that?

It's why I dislike the idea of humans getting text chat

Because it just kinda goes ahead and makes a meta to communication

Also the idea of psychically communicating dinos is already silly enough with discord

[golden coral]

So humans should only have voice chat, and dinos only text chat/calls?

[dusky surge]

Ya but also I'd give humans stuff like

• Radios
• Hand signals
• Morse code (if you know how to use a flashlight well lol)
• Flares

[golden coral]

Herreras doing morse code with their dewlaps! Fancy communication even for dinos

[dusky surge]

Yea stuff like what herrera has is great

[golden coral]

But yeah, I'm fine with that, I would like expanded calls for the dinos and maybe emotes of some kind too

And I guess it would be interesting if humans and dinos played differently even in communication

[dusky surge]

I legitimately think the addition of a mating call not only adds more to the game but also helps nesting actually work, I'm still upset it's not a thing

Omni's court sound should be a mating call it's literally so distinct and one of my favourite noises

[slim dragon]

I'd rather be for a "point" call
Like many games have a point emote

[golden coral]

Mating/Broadcast call, Friendly/Basic call, Warning/Threaten call, and Alert/Danger call. And maybe let the talk call work as a "point" call/emote as well.

[slim dragon]

Also ease of communication isn't universally a "better" feature.
To name a game that one specific person here hates, dbd has purposefully disabled any form of chat to make cooperation and coordination between survivors harder (which also in turn makes discord VCs completely OP but that's another story)

[dusky surge]

Honestly DbD is one of those games which is actually baffling WHY it doesn't have that kind of communication when it's become the norm in the genre

My only guess is the sceptic toxic ooze that radiates off that community needing to be contained to end-game chat and nothing else

[spark hazel]

Pretty sure they said something about this many years ago that they would like to have a system like this for the dinos.

Not sure if they are still going for that idea.

All i know is that when humans are talking with in-game vc, dino players will not understand what they are saying due to it being static sound for dino players or a different sound.

[dusky surge]

Enabling VC in DbD means the game can be balanced around it, rather than these 4 man squads being able to far exceed solo play

Anyway, while there is a point to be made about ease of communication, it's not like The Isle fails at that. The call system is an excellent way for quick and snappy communication through animation, sound and personality that establishes a quick message

Again, 3 call and 4 call are very underappreciated and underused

[quiet smelt]

I think VC is a great idea. The majority of long term players just VC outside of the game anyway.

[dusky surge]

Lacking VC isn't a big deal when it also has other options to compensate

[dusky surge]

On paper, yes. The execution, however, I don't see working

It's too many moving pieces

[slim dragon]

That's true
But I don't think DbD devs are that good at balance
Considering one of the killers has a power with no cost and low cooldown that can spot and debuff every survivor in the same half of the map as him

[dusky surge]

is it doctor

[slim dragon]

It is doctor

[dusky surge]

lmao

[quiet smelt]

I do think that there are better ideas than a VC, I will agree. Hot keys for type outs in chat such as “careful” being supported may be a better option. VC ruins the point of “if you speak in game you can be heard by other Dino’s.”

[spark hazel]

Thats for sure they are useful, but they are not that good for a cordinated pack hunting unless you make a plan for what x call tell you to do etc

[dusky surge]

I mean, my point is more the complexities of integrating VC into the existing system

Like it's easy to say "VC in The Isle would be good" but to consider HOW you'd add VC in a way that meshes well with how comms are already done? Not so easy

[spark hazel]

Im more into a counter strike like command wheel for pack dino such as raptors for cordinated hunts😅

[quiet smelt]

See that’s not even my biggest issue now that I think abt it.

People are meant to use the chat and the calls in order to make speaking in game more of a risk. You’re making noise, you have to have the consequences of that.

I.e if you are hiding and someone typed in chat, there would be a consequence for that.

So overall VC is just not an ideal situation with ur point included as well

[dusky surge]

Like the way I've trained myself to think over literal years of Game Design work is EXCEPTIONALLY holistically. I literally make up scenarios in my head to nitpick all the problems that can arise so I can address them before adding them.

It might have a good part in why I'm seen as the "guy who hates all feedback". For example, "buff carno and cerato weight to compete with dibble" is okay in a very closed vaccuum, assuming that's what we want from that matchup, but then you need to buff effectively every dinosaur's weight to keep up with the pressure applied by a heftier carno and cera

[slim dragon]

That's not exceptionnally holistic
It's the normal way of fiddling with game balancing
Or maybe I'm an annoying feedback-downvoter too

[dusky surge]

Issue with games like these is there's a colossal butterfly effect to balancing

And game design in general

[quiet smelt]

Yeahh, the isle suffers really hard from balancing impossibilities and always has.

[dusky surge]

I mean, to be honest

The Isle is basically the most insanely asymmetrical style game ever

No set teams, classes each with unique abilities, stats and interactions, specific classes designed for specific purposes, etc

You buff cerato by literally letting it move 200cm faster per hour and you've completely shited an entire matchup

The "Isle sucks at balancing" argument is a frustrating one because it genuinely is an insane undertaking with so many moving parts

[quiet smelt]

It’s frustrating but it is true, and it’s not necessarily the devs fault. It’s, as you said, just how a game like this works.

[dusky surge]

I think the endgoal from this game should be less "how much can I make everything perfectly balanced" and rather "how much fun can I make each individual niche so that everyone has something they enjoy while avoiding exceptionally suffocating choices in dino"

[quiet smelt]

Yeah balance is never going to be perfect in any game this style.

[rigid tulip]

Just an example. Plus it could be up to 2,000 kg if they take a liberal guesstimate. Besides, its not like it could possibly be worse at fighting things similar to its own size than carno.

[dusky surge]

oh no its supposed to actually fight bigger things unlike carno

[rigid tulip]

Yeah im just extremely worried everyone is going to be playing checkers and rex/trike playing chess

[dusky surge]

i mean, isnt that the reason they're supposed to be going to unofficials?

[rigid tulip]

And due to how omni is the only dino that causals can punch up that high with, it will become yet again the best option

[rigid tulip]

I suppose so but I feel like its a waste of time to create something like this that you know will destroy game balance and just putting it unofficials- rather than adding things that harmonize with balance first. Ur just putting the non-applicable work first when it actually does become fine down the line

Its like making a square block and setting it aside when the game is full of circular holes, instead of making a square hole first.

[dusky surge]

i mean, it's literally the most popular two dinosaurs in the world

also, humans are in unofficials, and that alone justifies it for me

[leaden remnant]

@rigid tulip teno can get absolutely crushed by a raptor or a cera

not a carno tho

[alpine plover]

Multiple raptors right?

[rigid tulip]

True but in a 1v1 it has an advantage on every dino essentially. Not a problem, all im saying is that would be nice for there to exist something it would have to really fear 1v1. As I think every dino needs this for balance purposes. Same with carno.

[leaden remnant]

1

[leaden remnant]

the thing it has to fear is a skilled raptor or cera

[alpine plover]

if both players are on the same skill level i doubt one raptor is destroying a teno.

[leaden remnant]

i agree

[rigid tulip]

I dont think teno should be nerfed. i just want it to have more competition as its kinda boring and safe to play as an adult. Same with dibble

[leaden remnant]

i agree

[cobalt dagger]

I think Raptor's new pounce is a bit difficult to deal with, in that it seems to connect from far away and bucking doesn't work very well. I think 1 raptor 'gives something to fear' to all but those fast enough to run away from raptors, and then croc.

However, among those who cannot run away or swim - Teno has it the easiest, as it has attacks from all sides.

[cobalt dagger]

I agree with this. Depending on how fast things are really affects this though.

Ex: Let's say carno has something he fears 1 v 1, he can just run away from it if he is faster.
Let's say Teno has something it fears 1 v 1, and that thing is actually in a group right now, but if this thing is faster than teno, the teno will simply die because it was seen by a group.

I see speed as it's own form of power - the power to pick your fights, the power to pressure and kill someone who doesn't want to fight, the power to live and survive when a fight doesn't favor you by running away as soon as you can.

[leaden remnant]

^^

[cobalt dagger]

I don't mind some animals being faster than others, in fact I like the diversity the game has

But speed needs to be factored in to an animal's 'power level' as well as bite force or health or stun attacks.

If I have 2 identical carno species, but one species of carno is faster than the other species of carno, then I want the slower species to at least grow faster to make up for the increased death.

Effectively making the slower one a different 'tier.'

Now, Stego is slow - BUT, stego has other power, MUCH more health and damage than most things.

But if Carno was as slow as stego? Groups of ceras and raptors (And there's plenty of them) would make carno life unbearable, as it doesn't have the means to defend itself that teno or stego has.

[cobalt dagger]

Anyway basically though I do think it's a good idea. Just gotta make sure you pay attention to how an animal's speed works. If you make the animal slower, it has to have some increased tracking ability and suprior stamina if it's going to threaten the carno by any degree.

[cobalt dagger]

I think, remeber earlier when people were talking about stego - And that it needs it's buff to deal with rex? Because if stego can't run, and it can't fight, it dies?

We have a lot of 'it can't run and it can't fight so it dies' animals. And it's not entirely based on growspeed or size. Ptera and Herra both have superior methods of escape, in spite of being small. Carno too, even though he's bigger.

I agree 100% that all animals need 'something' they can do to stay alive - Or else, they won't be fun. Everyone wants to play the lion, no one wants to play the lamb. (They want to play the RAM instead and fight back. Or the gazelle and run away. But not the helpless lamb.)

Fighting should be skill based and running has stamina, obstacles, some things like carno need plains to run effectively, ect ect, so both fighting and running aren't perfect but that's good. You want a little bit of 'will I live or will I die?' in there.

But I definitely think that all things need 'some way' to stay alive and I worry that not all creatures will be given that.

I guess as far as balancing goes, that is my idea on the first step to take.

[dusky surge]

this is the main thing i want

either something can fight a thing or flee a thing, and it can do that for basically everything, albeit uniquely depending on how they tend to operate

[cobalt dagger]

Or climb tree, or swim, or like a solo dilo dodge a carno

[dusky surge]

like a beipi sees a raptor on land, it's gonna die, no way to get around it, but it easily survives in water

[cobalt dagger]

Being a solo dilo/raptor escaping a carno is really interesting

[cobalt dagger]

I mean, it COULD dodge and hope it succeeds until it gets to the water, but I agree that beipi has a good spot

[dusky surge]

anyway, point is, every single matchup should come down to fight or flight. If it can't fight, it should be able to flee

[cobalt dagger]

I've wiggled around some raptors at times I shouldn't as, say, a juvi dilo.

[cobalt dagger]

I agree 100% though

I think situations like solo raptors running from solo carnos is ok too, well, 'it can flee' even though it is slower-

By having superior stamina and better turn and evasion

And if it can get just 1 pounce on the carno, and start some bleed on him, then that will punish the carno for sprinting after him. Basically 1 pounce and run, because you bleed faster when you sprint and carno bleeds like an anime character.

And with carno, he's not perfect in every environment - you'd want to run into the nearest forest, and your raptor would have an easier time of escaping or disappearing into the bushes.

[rigid tulip]

absolutely, speed is always underrated, it allows you to avoid unwinnable fights

but tbh I think some dinos will never be able to fight/flight everything. Dibble vs allo for example. Or small carnivores vs carno. But they can be balanced around besides speed i guess, terrain, agility, hiding, etc

[golden coral]

Considering dibbles ability to stun, they might be able to fight allo better than we think. Unless allo will be even heavier than stego and all.

[rigid tulip]

allo could be anywhere from slightly larger than a bary to slightly smaller than a sucho depending on interpretation

[hidden kettle]

well if allo doesnt get a stun/pin to throw that piggy over.. its gonna have a hard time on this 2 ton beast imo 😄
really depends on allos pin/mechanic `:D
still dont like the dibble buff tho was already a big booii <-<
really throws over the herbie/carni balance haveing most played herbs being bigger 😄

[rigid tulip]

it could be anywhere from 1,500kg to 4,000 so we will see

I hope they make it around 2,000-2,500 personally. The game is usually at its healthiest when things arent too big to be killed as an adult.

[hidden kettle]

ye would like to see something in that range as well.
2.3 tons kinda and bary a close to carno maybe 😄
just cant wait for a worthy carni man ._.
just doesnt feel right to have no real big deal besides raptor packs.. like carno is a joke in hunting bigger stuff ( what is should be ig ) and cera with a 2 ton dibble now aint a big thing either.. its good fo steal meat from raptors and maybe a solo carno ( if it got 2 left hands ) but overall we really need something big to even out being same size/armed as the herbies then imo that would make it balanced at the end..

[cobalt dagger]

Stamina, agility, terrain advantages, things like venom, can all help. As a dilo, when being chased by a carno, I try to give him just enough venom to fog his vision, and then try to disappear into that fog.

I feel alright with how raptor and carno/dilo and carno interact.

I think we CAN give this to every creature and most carnivores already kinda have it. They even took speed into consideration with Cera at least back in 6.5 with pachy and raptor, giving cera both bleed and fract resist because he was slower than those two.

Small carnivores like Ptera and Herra have superior methods of escape.

It's the herbivores that I think are falling behind, namely things like Dyro. Teno used to be in a bad spot but it's ok now.

I think for herbi's what I really want above all things, is for them to be FREE - Migration zone feels like jail. People complain there is no nutrients or, the MZ is missing one nutrient entirely because of how many dibbles there are - But I am sorry to say, this was the case BEFORE dibble. // is most likely to be missing, dots is 2nd most likely to be missing, S is most common.

The thing about increased competition over food for herbi, is that... Until dibble, no one plays herbi, really.

And so, when you find another herbi - even when they are not one of your kind - they are kinda your ONLY SOCIAL INTERACTION available. So I understand why herbi mixpack with other herbi so often.

[slim dragon]

@outer bone There's a mutation for that
Also I think you're getting a bit heated over a minor mechanic

[coral stratus]

@west plank they have high stats because devs are testing them if they work properly.

[west plank]

I know, I just wanted to specifically mention these ridiculous details.

[hidden kettle]

#balance-feedback message
its actually wierd that omni is one of the only ones haveing a real Prime..
like a sub omni is such a awesome sweetspot haveing more stam and speed than adult and still applie good bleed.. only raw pouncedmg is smaller so imo its their prime 😄
and i would like to see those "being in their prime" thing more often on other dinos 🙂

[median crow]

carnos also can run away from fully grown adults I think

[hallow sonnet]

@outer bone #balance-feedback message bro what r u talking about reabsorbtion gives plenty of water

[keen plover]

Nope

While it does have more stamina, Full growns are faster than any other stage

[median crow]

it used to be different back then every update they add some new bs

[hallow sonnet]

carno is faster than omni

[median crow]

first it was that random stamina change 6 months ago

and then they needed 3 months to make it acceptable

to play with

[median crow]

bro im talking about same species

[hallow sonnet]

sub omni is slower and weaker than adult omni and will always lose a fight between the 2 same with carno

[median crow]

yea

expect idk if this applies to omni its pretty random

with the dinos

[hidden kettle]

omni is faster than full adult before being full adult around 65-70% omni got slightly over 50km/h
it got less damage but also good bleed just meant its feeling like being in its prime then and to me at least it is like that. they are very fun and useful at that stage due to the higher speed.

[leaden remnant]

at 65-70, raptor runs at 49ish

it's at 50% when you run at 50.2, reaching a peak of 50.3 for around 3 minutes during your early sub life

with the speed mutation, you can run at a peak of 52.8, averaging 52.7 during your sub life, and running at 49.1 as fully grown

[hidden kettle]

well iwas sure i had something over 50 as a sub tho 😄
still its faster during grow process and then flats out on getting adult and i really like that and wish those curves would apply more on other dinos, could even see cera haveing a peak biteforce at a slower pace as early adult and flat out that to more momentum as fg. just think these "prime" states would be a lovely thing 🙂
but thx for correcting me on that ^^

[leaden remnant]

anytime

[golden coral]

@rapid harness Why would it be fine if rex/trike was in? Would it somehow make it better for everything else?

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Actually good balance change for the new stego tail which isn't "less damage" or "more stam" or "remove it"

[rapid harness]

Pretty much, as stegos would be the only reasonable food source dor rexes, and they would have to compete for food with trikes, massively reducing their "easy life" and actually making stegos to think through fights

if a stego goes on and murder a family of dibbles, wasting it stamina, atm it would have no punishment, but if a rex was closeby, it would not stand a chance

[golden coral]

Sure, trike and rex would "balance out" stego, in a sense. But that does not change how the other matchups would go, which is why I find it a bit odd. Even if that stego does that, A, there needs to be a rex nearby, B, the rex could be the thing killing instead (and if the stego then tried to kill the rex, then no doubt someone would complain about that instead). While being third partied would be a risk, it would not really prevent interactions, as can be seen in most cases, since carnis need to hunt and as such are always at risk (like cera taking your kill, or just being jumped by whatever else might be watching the hunt).

[rapid harness]

The point that i want to get is not by having a Rex nearby, but actually, Is there a Rex nearby? atm stegos dont fear nothing, they dont have to, thats why they are reckless and do whatever they want. As a Cera, u just dont wastes your entire stamina on a single hunt, Why? u fear that a carno can appear, or a teno. Same would go to stego. The fear is a powerfull weapon. About the other matchups, you have some things that you should fix, being these: Stam and hitbox. Atm the stego matchups are equal to put a band-aid where u lost your entire limb, it stops? a little, but not enough. fixing the hitbox and stamina, if the matchup still cant stand up to stego, its not meant to. you also need to consider that Rex and Trike arent the only big guys coming along, Allos and albertos are also getting close.

[rapid harness]

do you think a stego would play reckless if it knew that theres rexes, allos, alberts and trikes out there? so am not

[golden coral]

Maybe not, any more than either of the others would, so maybe that would work out.

As for the specifics you mentioned, the new attack has a much tighter hitbox, so there should be no issues there. As for stamina, I doubt the current stamina drain for the new attack is fully balanced, unless it is to compensate for the stam drain while running. Aside from that, I don't think there's any stamina issues.

[keen plover]

@west plank Carno is getting a rework btw.

[west plank]

Yes, this is good news, but for now there may be a solution to this problem.

[keen plover]

I don't think we'll see any changes until that update drops

[west plank]

Maybe, but if it's not changed too much, I think its stamina cost should be reduced.

[keen plover]

Fair enough. Regardless I hope the update is in the upcoming week

[west plank]

I hope we will get a good result

I think it would be better if Rex Trike and Allo come at the same time.

[keen plover]

I sort of want maia before allo and then honestly? I think it will be a fine addition

[west plank]

Most likely it will be as you say because not much progress has been made for Allo.

[hidden kettle]

ye saw the talk about it in the isle-discussion that they wanna change it a bit.
dont be too happy about it they might actually nerf it by that to get more into the small game thing 😄

[thorn mountain]

im guessing it will be something about getting more food from smaller things since you know they want to be a small game hunter

[keen plover]

Nah it's more like making it a better small game hunter

Don't know what they'll give it though

[thorn mountain]

ah yeah

[keen plover]

😔 As long as I can hunt omnis better

[thorn mountain]

prob more diets or something

and not gaining 2% food from something

[keen plover]

Maybe better movement as well?

[thorn mountain]

they would never

[keen plover]

We'll have to see tbf. All I know is that it's going to be a better "small game hunter"

[thorn mountain]

watch them be able to take stegos

[keen plover]

💀 Not a chance with new stego

[hidden kettle]

well if you can ambush it its onecomb 😄

[thorn mountain]

like how cerato is meant to be a scavenger and it can kill just about everything with time

[thorn mountain]

oh wait yeah... WHY DID THEY NOT ADD THAT WITH REX AND TRIKE WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO COME OUT 😦

[hidden kettle]

well that really depends on the situation. sure as long as you get anything to puke you can wait it out and trade every 60 sec to puke again til its dead 😄
but its not that big of a killing machine as it was imo.
remember times with pukelock to facetank carnos thats not a deal anymore 😄

[dusky surge]

and making more endurance/pursuit over ambush which is :)

[dusky surge]

god i hope not

[dusky surge]

because old stego was being destroyed by raptor packs who realised how glaring its weakness was

[thorn mountain]

so do I

[thorn mountain]

yep just bait the swing pounce until almost outta stam it was quite easy

[dusky surge]

also they needed to test the new stego eventually

[thorn mountain]

i love sending dibbles into the stratosphere so fun stego golf

[dusky surge]

eh, i don't see the joy in it, all it is gonna do is end up getting stego overnerfed again lol

[slim dragon]

Isle players when stego receives its very first buff since release :

Oh wait it actually got some minor ones before
At one point tail stab had a ridiculously high stam cost
Also its health got upped from 5k to 6k when health got globally changed to match weight

[west plank]

They need to fix stego's new feature and stamina cost

[dusky surge]

i think its honestly fine, outside of the dibble thing and being able to hold its tail up indefinitely

also it needs to roar when it puts up its tail always, not just when it's standing still

[keen plover]

dibble thing?

[dusky surge]

the fact that dibble is just getting slaughtered because its juvi sucks

i dont think stego needs a nerf as much as it needs more warning

like the fact it can ambush? Ya not great

[keen plover]

Ah fair enough, but even with a warning juvi diablos will still be rolled. It needs to be faster

[dusky surge]

of course

[keen plover]

Imagine growing for like 2 hours and still being slower than a sub stego

[dusky surge]

i just don't want stego's speed nerfed because my god does it not need it

[keen plover]

Agreed

[lone dome]

#balance-feedback message

[hidden kettle]

well the feature is fine to me and i like it. i also like the powerswing and thing its good for it. the stam cost for that power swing can be more. loseing as less stam as they do stationary is fine to me since its in a " battlestance" already yelling at you its advantage tho

[tight cove]

@dusky surge why’d you disagree with what I just said? I’m just curious

[hidden kettle]

speaking of that mutation again.. does it work on Dilos hallucinations ? and does anyone knows how its stacking up with troodon venom ?
would be some of the only things makeing sense to pick it imo..
like 15% aint that big of a deal otherwise..

[hidden kettle]

that powerswing while running should take just a bit more.
the normal swing while in "comat stance" or what it shall be is fine to me 😄

[golden coral]

@fleet whale Rex is meant to be more powerful than stego

[fleet whale]

So deino is also not weaker than stego, but it feels like the herbs will soon be on a high chain

[golden coral]

I would put the old/jab at 4% (and keep the usage even when out of stam), the new one at 5%, and the running one at 10% if needed. But the latter depends very much on how stego is meant to use it, is it a "I will smack you, then kill you, or at least cause a mutually assured kill", or is it "I will smack you, use the anim turn + the stun (if it stuns rex) to then make distance and hope the damage + bleed makes you unwilling to follow". Since we don't know how the attack is really meant to be used, it's hard to say how the stam should work.

[golden coral]

Deino is not on the level of rex, rex and trike are both a bit above stego and deino (and spino is above deino too from what we know)

[hidden kettle]

deino can kill a stego with full stam tho
deino is fine atm imo

[hidden kettle]

well a rex still wont go for a swim with it i guess 😄

[golden coral]

The new running stego attack is so weird, since we don't really have any sufficiently hardy target that can fight back to see how it's meant to be used

[golden coral]

Maybe not, they might up the "can grab swimming things with higher weight". I wouldn't mind it, I don't think even rex or trike should feel all that comfortable going for a long swim.

[fleet whale]

Deino shouldn't be vulnerable to the same duck, but right now, especially Hatcha, anyone can kill him. I wouldn't be surprised if they even kill Drio.

[golden coral]

What?

[tight cove]

Sure

[hidden kettle]

ye true.
like it doesnt need to grab it. could get like a "underwater pin", just grabbing the leg and pull it down a bit 😄

[golden coral]

Sure, hatchlings might have it rough, and that's fair (stego should get the same treatment, really)

[golden coral]

Now I imagine two deinos just hanging on to a trikes legs and making it sink down like that

[hidden kettle]

well better be hard to grow something that can literally do whatever it want fully grown 😄

[golden coral]

Would honestly work really well, and could apply that to stego as well (since it does look a little silly with deino holding a fully grown stego). And it would be a better version for use vs other deinos

[fleet whale]

I agree with Stego, at any age they are now stronger than many, and this is not fair

[golden coral]

Since while you could grab another deino and stop it/make it sink, well, unlike the land critters, that deino can fight back underwater

[hidden kettle]

uuuh ye like the pounce to pin in water then that would be awesome 😄
can already see 4 midsize crocs towing on a stego xD

[golden coral]

So that would both allow you to do something to another grown deino, but at the same time not just pull a "you're grabbed, have fun with that"

So that's honestly a cool idea, and would make for a difference between if you're grabbing onto something terrestial or aquatic/semiaquatic

@mortal gust Just let dryo eat anything, anywhere, at all times. That way dryos can go where they want, and spread out as they see fit.

[hidden kettle]

well we will see but i can see that comeing up somehow 😄
may on another semi aquatic if they dont wanna touch crocs too much

[mortal gust]

Been playing Dryo since legacy. It only got bad with the introduction of migration zones and it got even worse when the grow times adjusted. Now its a slow growing helpless dino that never sees other players. I loved the high night vision and 4 call for it being a sentry for a herd. I miss finding a herd, pooping out a nest in the open, having 9 babies 7 of which die in dramatic ways and only seeing 2 family members live to adulthood.

Well... Not entirely helpless its damage is unexpectedly high with the new attacks lol

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, it can beat up some things now. But I'd like for it to be one of those "I can go wherever, whenever" critters

[mortal gust]

Yeah. Small dinos like Beipi, Dryo, Ptera (though ptera has some problems still with how annoying they can be) should grow fast and just get to hang out wherever

Troodon is fine though wish they had just slightly lower grow time

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

why do so many people agree with this, this is literally an insanely overtuned nerf

[golden coral]

Could be multiple reasons. Just dislike of stego. Not understanding that the issue comes from diablo and others being slow rather than stego being fast. Not taking into account what the new attack is potentially meant to be used vs. Not wanting stego to be able to provide any offensive pressure. And so on.

[regal tulip]

Cuz the "it needs this attack to fend off a rex" is bs if it could do the same damage while being stationary. If rex is gonna catch up anyways why does stego need the ability to run around while charging its strongest attack? The only thing this does is make stego a slower rex with no need to actually eat meat, so easier to mantain. It sucks for slower dinos that just get KOSed and its annoying for everyone else cuz the stego is still gonna chase you like a rabid dog. The players are always the issue and i dont think they need to be given the tools to live out the dino bowling playstyle.

[frail bobcat]

If rex gets too close to it, it can use the swing to punish it by sprinting at it and whacking it

[keen plover]

tbf stego is the slowest land animal in the game. The only thing it does bully is small diablos, which shouldn't even be that slow in the first place

Other than that, you have to run into the stego to get hit

[regal tulip]

yes, right now stego would be the aggressor in this matchup because if you have the tools why not use them. After all the best defense is a good offense.

[frail bobcat]

It's not the aggressor, but it can be situationally aggressive

[regal tulip]

imo herbis just shouldnt have the ability to initiate a fight (apart from pachy maybe but thats mostly a hit and run) since if they go for a kill, its only for fun. They dont need to eat other dinos to survive and right now the roster is pretty good at standing its ground with dibble being slow (maybe a bit too slow) but a literal wall and teno only having access to its strongest attacks when its back is turned to the hunter. Stego only being able to swing while trotting is balanced rn. If you meet a group of dinos in the open, you are dead, if you have rocks you might still be dead but have a fighting chance. Herbi gameplay shines in a herd when you build a defensive circle and not running around swinging at random dinos. I understand your points as to why it would generally be a good addition but with how most stegos are acting right now its just annoying and looking at all those suggestions i feel that im not the only one who thinks like that.

[solar folio]

Herbis should not be balanced around herd in the first place, neither should any other playable
Every playable should be able to survive solo, avoiding situations "oops you haven't find a herd so you're dead coz you should've find one"
I'm not sure about stego running attack because haven't touch HT yet but I guess it should be a little less passive that it is in live build

However, I think it would be better if stationary attacks dealt more damage and running attack wasn't that devastating, but I'm not sure about it

[uncut cove]

@robust jay lions often pin down wilderbeast and zebra, both animals that weigh more then them. Even Tigers can pin indian Guar, which are massive cows that dwarf them. (they also have equal weight in game)

[thin mantle]

Balancing creatures on the off chance others of your species might be playing and willing to group with you generally is a terrible idea

[hidden kettle]

well i like the idea of galli fighting back like troodon but omni should also pin it more like a "hang on neck throw down " 🙂

[neon willow]

@lone dome eh, I don't find the description of that mutation confusing. Hunger is the need/urge to eat. More hungry means you need to eat more. Hungry/very hungry/extremely hungry/starving. Eg, what the mutation is saying is: the less food in your stomach, the more you need to eat to refill said stomach, so you do more damage when you have low food. The hungrier you are, the more damage dealt

[lone dome]

wait xD

[neon willow]

XD

[lone dome]

not what u said.. xD

[neon willow]

You realized before I replied lol

[lone dome]

wait lemme post it here rq

oh wait, if I could only take my answer out of the bin... xD

right, so I thought aswell its dealing more dmg the hungrier u are, so empty stomache = poorest/none additional damage and full stomach = poorest/none additional damage. But, ive been told by multiple people ( u can read the chats) that its dealing more dmg the more hunger you have.
really confusing... xD well its being still tested and hopefully cleared soon

[neon willow]

Uh... That's poorest/no additional damage twice 😬 what did you mean to say?

[lone dome]

xDD, sorry *empty stomache= max. damage

as u can see Im very confused, thats why I put it in feedback

u can read the discussion I had with the guys that told me probably right, if u really wanna go down that hole xD

[neon willow]

Yes that's how I interpreted it. Empty stomach, max damage. Full stomach, normal damage

[dusky surge]

@alpine sleet making stego slower is a bad idea, but i think the roar it does when it raises its tail should always happen, not just when its standing still and raising the tail

[rigid tulip]

anyone else just now realizing how incredibly TRASH carno is? Carno and dilo live in the shadow of omni/cera and its not even close

[dusky surge]

Yea carno has been bad for a while

[shadow vortex]

By the way, can actually a galli fight back when pinned? I for sure saw several times how a pinned omni sometimes can injure the pinning one, but never saw a galli kicking its hunter in the face hmh.

[mint star]

even better, make it "growl" during the whole tail-lifted sequence

so its constantly making noise

[solid belfry]

@cobalt dagger Soon multiple raptors will be able to pin a larger creature and at that point your stam is gonna be useless

If you're a stego and 3+ raptors are pouncing you they can roughly get your stam all the way down if they stay on while bucking

[cobalt dagger]

Okay so, if I stay still to buck, this gives other raptors a chance to jump on and help pin. But if I don't buck, then I can run and dodge and try to rub them off on a tree.

If bucking is useless, WHY would I not run to the nearest rock or tree instead? But if bucking actually works, I might try to do it, which could benefit the raptor if he has friends.
Notably, not all raptors have friends. So if a solo raptor is trying to solo something bigger, bucking is really important to making sure that a creature that grows less time (the raptor) can't easily solo something that grows for more time (stego/teno/carno/cera/ect)

Sometimes there are solo raptors, and Sometimes, you're a cera/carno/teno/something big, and a tiny itty bitty solo baby raptor with frustratingly fruitful stamina latches onto you and chews on you and just, doesn't even kill you and eventually dies to you, but you CAN'T get them off and it's aggravating.

I think that how many raptors are on could, for example, also increase the stamina cost. But if bucking removes the whole stamina bar because a raptor less than 2% of your weight latched onto you, no one will buck. Why have a 'raptor defense feature' that hurts you (by making you stationary so other raptors can get on and pin you) more than it helps you? No one will use it.

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message

curious why some people are saying no

[dusky surge]

there was literally 3 people who all disagreed at the same time

i dont see whats wrong with it, it's literally a buff to dilo by all means

[slim dragon]

Before dilo release I really hoped the hallucinations would be used to confuse prey, but they really don't fill that role rn

No wonder people treat them as magic summons, that's how they feel right now

[alpine plover]

Nah Fr, like it’s going to help it, the downvoting doesn’t make sense lmao

[distant torrent]

it’s all fine to me but 3 minutes is way too long. a minute is long enough especially when sniffing isn’t allowed at all during envenomation

some people don’t mind that ig but I personally see it as unnecessarily long like dilo’s venom before it was first nerfed

[vale brook]

its venom, its not supposed to be forgiving lol

3 minutes is fine

[golden coral]

@west plank Better to just remove the "charge" then and just use it as a normal attack(?), since now you're punishing the whole "ready stance".

[west plank]

They can do this with a low enough stamina cost, otherwise we will see stegos whose tails are constantly in the air, this is ridiculous.

[dusky surge]

just literally make it go down over time

like how pachy and cera both work

its not like it needs a uniquely punishing stamina cost

[alpine sleet]

yes i just dont want to get ambushed in the night or in a jungle by an animal who is supposed to act in a defensive way, the roar may be a better idea

[west plank]

This is a very powerful attack and there must be a price for it.

[golden coral]

Rather just time it then, though being able to remain in a ready stance isnt bad when your other attacks are clunky. I just dont want stego to go back to being clunky, easily baitable and far too stamina reliant.

[cobalt dagger]

I think some people don't want dilo to be buffed/still feel like it's op.

I do think that when dilo first released there were some balancing problems + People did not know how to defend themselves from the animal or how to take advantage of it's weaknesses yet.

I think the key to dilo balance is to make sure it has to engage at least sometimes and not let venom do all the work, and make it so fragile that doing that engagement could mean it's death if it's not skilled or careful or if it is simply unlucky

Right now, the counter to dilo is standing in water, mud, or a rock and this is really bad for dilo because now the dilo does ALL the work and the venom does kinda, none of it.