balance-feedback-discussion

[leaden remnant]

but im just saying, herrera has more than 1 try

[tight cove]

True, but Me personally if I see a hererra following me I’m going to the plains so good luck lol

[dusky surge]

in fact the crux of your argument is comparing them

[leaden remnant]

wat

it's the opposite smh

[keen plover]

That's just how it is rn either way the issue is the range vs carno. Carno can run in and ignore the buff at certain points due to its speed

[leaden remnant]

im saying that herrera has more than 1 try and is silent right now

and that deino has only 1 try cause it's water and not land

both are ambush predators but both work completely differently

one's a land predator, the other is a water predator

one can follow you, the other can only kill you if you commit a grave mistake

in fact, avoiding deinos is so damn easy that nobody plays deino anymore

[tight cove]

@keen plover first things first carno needs a rework, then teno needs its stam nerfed, then ceras vomit needs a rework. That’s what I would do

[dusky surge]

thats just wrong lol

[leaden remnant]

safe spots:

[slim dragon]

Count the safe spots against herrera

[dusky surge]

its so funny people think no one is playing the animal you can't see because they can't see them

[leaden remnant]

only plains

[leaden remnant]

tbf i think that me drinking in the river for 2 months and not dying once is enough for me to claim that "nobody" (very few ppl) play it

[dusky surge]

ive been playing herrera and beipi a lot as of late, and let me tell you, deino shortage is a myth

these things are still all over the place

[leaden remnant]

and also me playing deino from time to time

[keen plover]

Sounds fine? although a vomit rework could mean anything

[leaden remnant]

cannibalism? yeah sure if you even find another deino 🤷‍♂️

[tight cove]

Some days I see Deinos everywhere but sometimes I see barely any Deinos for weeks so I get both pov’s

[leaden remnant]

up n down the river nothing to be seen goin to da swamp nothing to be seen highlands lake... nothing

completely empty

[slim dragon]

That's still a lot of space
Besides, you can tell just by looking what places are safe from a herrera and which ones aren't

[keen plover]

I was playing as a beipi just earlier and there was a lot of them at water access and delta

[slim dragon]

Can't do that with deino

[leaden remnant]

very rare sighting

[leaden remnant]

true, cause there's safe spots so why risk it

[dusky surge]

it really isnt that rare given i saw around 5 last time i played, each of which were in different parts of the map

[leaden remnant]

you can't see the deino, yeah, but you don't even have to

[keen plover]

idk I see them a lot

[leaden remnant]

you can just drink where there won't be deinos

[slim dragon]

I mean with deino you can't tell what is a safe spot or not just by looking at it

[tight cove]

That is a very good point so a lot of ppls pov is probably inaccurate

[leaden remnant]

you pretty much can

[slim dragon]

Enlighten me then

[leaden remnant]

use your eyes

if it's too shallow it's a pseudo safe spot 🤷‍♂️

[slim dragon]

Ok but how do you tell shallow water
Water in this game is opaque, there is no way to tell how deep it is

[leaden remnant]

and even then you can just do the long lunge weird thing and catch ppl there

[tight cove]

Nahh that made me laugh 💀

[leaden remnant]

from inside the water if you're a deino bruh

[dusky surge]

i genuinely cannot believe we live in a world where people think stego is OP and deino needs help lol

[dusky surge]

okay how do you tell if you want a DRINK lol

[leaden remnant]

you're asking how as a deino can you tell if it's too shallow

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-gif-26280065

[slim dragon]

no

[dusky surge]

that is not what he's asking lmaooo

[leaden remnant]

some ppl think that, yes

yes he is asking that

[slim dragon]

no

[dusky surge]

no he is not

[leaden remnant]

then what r u asking

[slim dragon]

You can tell which places are safe from a herrera just by looking
You can't tell which places are safe from a deino just by looking

[leaden remnant]

ig that's true

but not all the time

[tight cove]

It honestly depends on the area

[leaden remnant]

if the entire thing is covered by rocks, you can tell just by looking

[tight cove]

SOME places you can clearly see it’s shallow

For example, highlands lake by the dam has some pretty visible shallow spots

[leaden remnant]

not to mention that you can just... remember the safe spots

or step in the water to check

[slim dragon]

And die if you're wrong

[leaden remnant]

no

chances of being killed by a deino are so small that it's pretty much safe to check

unless you literally live in south plains in which case... might wanna stay away from the water

[tight cove]

If your in south plains there’s a secret pond you can drink from that’s pretty safe

[leaden remnant]

also pretty sure nobody here has said that deino needs help and stego is op

[leaden remnant]

skull emoji

[slim dragon]

Yes someone did say that stego is op

[leaden remnant]

wat

stego is like the most stupid wobbling thing that moves right now

only thing it can easily kill is deinos smh

[tight cove]

I don’t get the ppl who say it’s op like bro if you can’t fight it avoid it it can’t chase you 💀

[leaden remnant]

literally

[tight cove]

All you gotta do is avoid adult stegos unless you a group of very particular Dino’s 🌚

[leaden remnant]

yus

[golden coral]

It's a cow with a pinecone for a tail, or how someone once put it in a feedback. Which apparently means it should just eat grass and die, at least that was the point of the feedback.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

stegos being literally helpless against the fact the fact that deino can just stay in the centre of the water and win that entire engagement
"FIX STEGO FISHING"
????

[bright oasis]

Stego fishing being entirely caused by deinos taking the very obvious bait

It's literally not an issue and hasn't ever been one

[golden coral]

@north summit Bait them into swimming and you can grab and drown them.

[north summit]

Trust me, they're not that dumb

[golden coral]

Could try and bait one of them into swinging somewhat infront, making them turn their bodies, that'll at least have to make them move around, and all you need is one misstep

[north summit]

Sadly at a beach they can see you coming. Without 5 deinos they can't be killed. They can easily disengage. It shouldn't need to be that complicated if they're half way in the water dragging them in is just grabbing on.

Some people can 1v1, but most can't

[golden coral]

Even if they see you, if you can move in front, they'll have to adjust to that. Maybe it wont work, but they can't really get you either, so you're not really in any danger from them.

And even if you could grab them if they're too deep in, they'd just be standing in shallow water at that point

[tight cove]

I was about to say the same thing, other than that though leave em alone

[tall bronze]

Stego fishing is apparently going away eventually anyways.

[golden coral]

Only to be replaced by something else doing it, no doubt

[slim dragon]

Trike will have its horns removed so it can't go deino fishing

[golden coral]

I'd imagine rex would do it better anyway, taller, can go deeper into water, and powerful bite most likely

Go far out, bite, see if you catch something

[slim dragon]

But people won't complain because rex is a carnivore

Maybe
Just maybe
The definitive fix for Isle balance is making everything a meat-eater

[tight cove]

@slim dragon just caught a baby deino swimming as a cera

[mental delta]

If everything’s broken then nothing is broken

[vital marsh]

Bro...you're a genius

[mental delta]

https://tenor.com/view/syndrome-incredibles-when-everyones-super-gif-10466529

[alpine plover]

I wonder if there's any way to combat mixpacking on the developer side. It sucks when giant mixpacks dominate a whole area of the map. Makes it pointless to play the game.

[dusky surge]

There may be, but it's a VERY complex issue to tackle

[leaden remnant]

yeah they're trying stuff

[rigid tulip]

why do people downvote ptera stam suggestions

[graceful swallow]

mixpacks use them for scouts, guessing no one wants OP scouts

[rigid tulip]

unavoidable issue except through admin action

[leaden remnant]

i mean

ig but those ppl need to understand that nerfing an entire dino to the ground only cause a few ppl use it to troll is not the way

[graceful swallow]

Yeah I agree its a steep slope

alotta peeps just like ptera

[leaden remnant]

yes

if that was the way, pachy should be removed

but since it ain't, keep it the way it should be 🤷‍♂️

[distant torrent]

I love ptera but it feels like a chore to play tbh

most reliable thing you can catch is fish. good luck with frogs or anything else. you’re also not likely to successfully scavenge kills since you’re too light to grab organs out of heavier, more common playables like teno, cera, stego, deino, and carno. last time the game allowed me to steal organs from an adult carno corpse as an adult ptera was back in Spiro when cera was a brutal vomit and endurance hunter

the stam is also.. not the best. especially when paired to the limited diet ptera can consistently get without issue (fish )

[grand grail]

#balance-feedback message solution: don't take the bait and stegos wont do it. There, it's fixed now. Out of all of the things to complain about why this lol

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message we are here to experience nature and dinos, and, well, nature is the most annoying and unfair thing ever, so sucks to say this but stego fishing is normal

nature has nothing beautiful in it, it's everything killing everything for absolutely no damn reason at all

[slim dragon]

This game isn't about nature tho

[leaden remnant]

bru

[slim dragon]

It's a sci-fi survival horror game about dinos that have been created and replicated by a morally-grey company using a sapient omnipotent machine

[leaden remnant]

that doesn't change the fact that this is just a weird nature

sure this game might be, as you said, a sci-fi survival horror game about dinos that have been created and replicated by a morally-grey company using a sapient omnipotent machine, but brother cmon this game has too much nature in it

so that changes virtually nothing about what i said

[slim dragon]

I don't think stego fishing is as much of an issue as deino players claim it to be
However, the "it's nature" argument is invalid in several ways
first, it's a game. It's not trying to replicate nature or natural behaviors, especially considering players are controlling the dinos. Second, as I said it's sci-fi and everything is man-made (including possibly the islands themselves). It's about as natural as Ark is.

[leaden remnant]

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

you aint wrong but you also aint right

because lore here is absolutely irrelevant

[slim dragon]

Maybe not, but the rest is
Should I waste time calling you out on your argument although I agree with your point ? Probably not

Do I want to waste time doing that ? Yes

[leaden remnant]

a map full of plants with dinos that behave just like you would behave if you lived a month in the forest is just nature

[leaden remnant]

real

[leaden remnant]

might be the stupidest and most non-sensical but it still is

[leaden remnant]

most of the things that happen aint that much of an issue

stego fishing is annoying as heck but it is what it is

juvie killing is annoying as heck but it also is what it is

aaaaaaand so on

[dusky surge]

stego fishing is also very... unproblematic

[slim dragon]

The only issue with stego fishing is that somehow deino players fall for it

[leaden remnant]

lol

[dusky surge]

like, it's so easy to ignore and avoid that it literally means nothing

[slim dragon]

I don't see how juvie killing is a problem

[leaden remnant]

not saying it is

im just saying it's just annoying yknow

[dusky surge]

i equate stego fishing to the time i accidentally caught a fish with a hook without bait

[leaden remnant]

natural selection be like

[dusky surge]

you swim up to the shiny metal spiky hook and still put it in your mouth

thats on you

[leaden remnant]

or how could i forget about this, the carno pair at south plains camping all food spots for an entire day just to make sure that no cera is able to grow

[dusky surge]

honestly that sounds more natural than stego fishing by a huge margin

[leaden remnant]

both r natural

it's just how ppl behave

nothing intrinsically wrong with that

[neon willow]

Especially with how wide and deep rivers are now... It's not like a deino can be cornered in a shallow area by a stego. The only way a deino gets marked by a stego is if the deino chooses to engage

[alpine sleet]

so how strong does dibble currently feel?

i heard its weaker than teno and only has a good matchup against carno

[leaden remnant]

apparently it's strong as heck

it's a bulldozer right now

[tight cove]

Nah from what I’ve seen so far Diablo is a tank, as long as your not standing out in the open getting constantly baited you’ll win the fight

It doesn’t even have its sparring yet and it’s really good lmao

[keen plover]

small guy knocked me down :D

1.5 - 1.6t carno btw

Their knockdown range is my only problem

[tight cove]

And that small Diablo in front of the black one knocked you down? 💀💀💀

[keen plover]

YES

[tight cove]

The ppl who say Diablo is weak just simply don’t know how to play the game fr fr

[keen plover]

Diablo does not need to knock down stuff larger than itself lol. Just overkill at this point

It already reduces damage, has high damage, bleed and is without one of its mechanics

[dusky surge]

LOL what

[keen plover]

yep overtuned knockdown range

[dusky surge]

God damn it'd be able to stagger rex lol

[quiet oyster]

With 15% growth my diablo has 62 damage. Is this normal?

[tight cove]

Diablo should def be able to stager a carno though but before I even wanna get to heavy into balance I want to wait till the sparring gets added

[keen plover]

Stagger is fine

Knockdown is not

Just unnecessary imo

[tight cove]

Wait can Diablo knock down a carno with its alt attack or no?

I assume not but idk

[keen plover]

I think if you hold left click it does

Since they're able to run and then do it lol

Not familiar with the attacks of course

[tight cove]

True

[dusky surge]

i believe it's the "sparring attack", where you hold RMB and press LMB

[tight cove]

Diablo is so new ppl don’t even know how to fight it properly yet

Give it a week or two

[keen plover]

ahhhh

I'm not going to call it OP. I think it's like 99% fine as is, but the knockdown range needs gutting

[hidden kettle]

well first encounter with dibby as a cera (not fg atm was about 45%) and had to run off because theres so many of em 😄
but i gotta say as cera its not as easy to get in their flanks as i thought it will be 😄
those things move/turn quick enough to stay on guard and do a good amount of Dmg.

Those will become finally a herbie in a pretty good spot to make fights as cera very interesting ~~

[hidden kettle]

i think a raptor squad will shred that thing pretty quick 😄

[hidden kettle]

dibby is goin Nutz man... gettin knocked and insta killed as a full grown cera near a dead stego is a bit too heavy .. and THEY killed that stego .. 😄
tailhits already pushing into deep yellow near that body..
what made em think it is good to give it that much force ?! 😄
i get it should be strong but idk .. insta knock and dmg like a carno charge is kinda the issue we had on carno with it as well ... just in another dress <.<

[golden coral]

@crisp cloud Because alt attacks can be used out of stam, and a playable should not be entirely defenseless when out of said stam. Is it the new attack or the old attack? Because I'd imagine that with the new main attack, the old one might have been put as the alt attack which would explain it.

[crisp cloud]

Now Stego can still attack even when he has no stamina at all. There are rocks and trees everywhere. They are the best tools to deal with Omni. I think Omni can be deleted.

[shadow vortex]

Wait, last update stego wasn't able to attack when out of stam, right? Did it change in HT?

[crisp cloud]

yeah HT

[golden coral]

I don't believe it was? It certainly hasn't always been able to, even when other critters got their alt attacks to use even when out of stam. Not sure if it has changed, but if it has, it's rather recent. But now with the new attack, it would make sense if the other attack is alt, and thus is treated as it, like all the others.

[crisp cloud]

This is the island of the herbivorous

no the isle

[golden coral]

Ah yes, go and hide in terrain because you can't fight otherwise. Stego shouldn't be defenseless out of stam, any more than any other playable should be. Not like the attacks still can't be baited rather easily anyway. And terrain would be as effective as always as well. Only now, you won't just have to stand there forever and wait until you die because you can't fight back, at least not as much.

Though with stamina "return" on damage, and other funny mutations, that will probably help too.

Of course, omni can probably go for the "less damage taken from larger critters" and whatever else there is to help it out as well

[golden coral]

New attack, seems to be good. Interesting that it can knock over other stegos, not sure if it'll make mirror match better or worse

[crisp cloud]

I want omini to be deleted so I can give up this game

Omni's prey can find a big tree or stone anywhere to perfectly avoid Omni's attack.

[golden coral]

Nothing stops you from taking a break or give up the game, but you might want to wait around and see how pounce to pin works out and all that. And omni got some improvements too, according to the notes at least, though I'm not sure what exactly it does.

[hidden kettle]

well that means it can knock down ceras or carnos approaching it which is even more interesting than the mirror to me 😄

[golden coral]

Yes, terrain is both too good and too bad, but that's an issue all of it's own, and would require a fair amount of rework of pounce and everything else to really fix

[hidden kettle]

nah ya still can get it since back pounce.. one for the bait one for the jump 😄

[golden coral]

True, though I'd have to question the cera or carno that sees the raised tail/running stego coming at em, and somehow gets hit xD

[hidden kettle]

stego hitreg be like ... see that cera over there cross lake? - ye
BANG - daaamn bro 😄

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, back pounces, can you knock omni off from those or is it just a matter of taking it/alternatively try bucking if you got the mutation

[golden coral]

Nah, that'd be dibble, apparently it has great knockdown power xD

Tiny dibbles knocking down larger targets easily

[hidden kettle]

you can knock em off a wall f.e. but its way more difficult like you bug ya tail throu it 😄

[crisp cloud]

Once upon a time, the omni's right-click attack could immediately disengage from the prey's body.

[hidden kettle]

ngl its way to heavy imo 😄
got destroyed as fg cera with a knock and 2 alts (ig) as follow up before im up again ... that was stright up bs to me 😄
2v1 a fg dibble seems pretty easy as cera but one vs one, ya better run .. this thing is a worse terminator than teno was 😄

[golden coral]

Do you know if it works better if you attack, at least for stego. Since omni kind of sits on the tail, would moving the tail like using an attack help, or make no difference?

How large is dibble? And yeah, it does seem like a critter that is great 1v1, but when you start getting outnumbered, you're in trouble

Slow alt attack, I believe?

[golden coral]

I think they improved that on the pin, the pounce is already like that

[crisp cloud]

The game balance is terrible

Includes map hotspots

[fiery shard]

omg. why does this attack spend so lil stam? i think it should spend at least 10-15% so that the player thinks when to use this attack and when to save stam

[crisp cloud]

now Stego can still attack even when he has no stamina at all.

[fiery shard]

i think we can now ask for the removal of all dinos except stego. main thing to remember is that it's not overpowered and is perfectly balanced
sarcasm

[keen plover]

Might main stego now. Actually peak

[golden coral]

I mean, I don't neccesarily disagree, but I probably disagree on which dinos are balanced and unbalanced.

[golden coral]

If it did, it'd be useless. Then you've returned stego to being bad, if not worse, than before.

[dusky surge]

thank god, finally, stego can do what every other dinosaur has been able to do for several updates now

[golden coral]

Yes, it's finally maybe actually good, as a playable. Which is nice, it might be fun to play now.

[fiery shard]

when stego's attacks required stamina, he was useless? lol

[dusky surge]

it can stun rexes omg it might be viable

[golden coral]

Kind of, you were very limited, especially with new stam. Having an alt that you can use without stam means you're not defenseless when out of stam, which is good.

[dusky surge]

stego actually seems fun AND viable, it's crazy

[golden coral]

Maybe. Rex would still be quite a bit larger, but yeah, maybe the strategy would be to run up, smack rex in the face, then run away.

[dusky surge]

all it needs is just changing its RMB jab to alt bite

[golden coral]

Yeah, there's some odd interaction between new and old attack, need to put the old attack on alt properly, should help

[fiery shard]

okay, let's assume that's true. but then we should significantly increase stam expenditure on stego attacks. not 4% but 10-15% for example.

[golden coral]

No, anything more than 5% would be insane

Again, especially with current stam and how it works

[fiery shard]

insane to make an overpowered dinosaur attack without stam

[dusky surge]

its crazy how people find a problem with stego defending itself like everyone else while out of stam

[golden coral]

Main attack should probably be about 5% (new attack), and then put the alt at 4% then

[dusky surge]

deinosuchus can, so that's not new

and it's FAR stronger than stego

[golden coral]

Stego isn't overpowered, that's the thing, it's a big, powerful herbi that should be as terrifying to interact with as a deino, in it's own biome

[fiery shard]

when the deino has 1200 damage, then we'll discuss it

[golden coral]

And 5% stam cost is 20 attacks, 4% is 25 attacks

[dusky surge]

it has 6000, so it's probably better lol

[golden coral]

That's.... not many attacks at all, quite frankly

[golden coral]

Deino can drown swimming stegos, thats 6K worth of damage

[fiery shard]

6000? sure?

[dusky surge]

i'd rather deino's 6000 to stego's 1200

[golden coral]

What did teno have in stam cost attack?

Since it did have a whole lot of attacks

[keen plover]

Who cares? It sucks that deino can protect itself on land. Used to be able to bait attacks and then tail ride them. But it's here so stego should have the same

[fiery shard]

can I see where? lmb 500 rmb 200-250

[golden coral]

Are you aware of how lunge works?

[dusky surge]

lunge can kill an adult stego, 6000HP, instantly

[golden coral]

Cause there's this lovely ability you have that will just... let you directly or indirectly kill stuff

Or just troll them if you want to put them in the middle of the river and watch them slowly try and make their way back before they drown xD

[fiery shard]

i know. right now, you can't even kill a sub carno with a lunge. not enough stam

[golden coral]

In any case, stego finally being more interesting, and hopefully actually fun and good, is promising

[golden coral]

That seems like an issue with how stam is calculated for deino then, it makes little sense that you can't

[keen plover]

Every bit of content I've seen is them chilling and then disrespecting anything that challenges them

[golden coral]

If so, that needs to be looked at, deino should be able to drown things properly after all

[golden coral]

Not seen any vids yet, got any to recommend?

[fiery shard]

try killing fg stego with one lunge at a time. i really want to see if you have enough stamina. i just didn't have enough just a 2 week ago

[dusky surge]

not that hard, 6000 damage is still 6000 damage

[keen plover]

It's some clips here and there. A friend wanted to die and ran into a stego as a diablo and got rolled < discord stream

sent away

[fiery shard]

making excuses. dialogue is useless

[golden coral]

I don't know if you have enough stamina, but if you don't, you should have, but that seems like a deino stam issue.

Not sure what has happened with it's stam if it can't drown things properly

[dusky surge]

i recently did it. there's no excuse

[fiery shard]

at the moment deino stam is not even enough for sub carno or sub ceras. but some experts say you can kill fg stego. funny

[golden coral]

If deino is lacking stam to drown, that's an issue. Nothing strange there

Hopefully that'll be adjusted

I do know you can grab swimming stegos, so that much is doable, if you don't have enough stam to keep it under until it drowns, that's odd

[dusky surge]

i'd rather a conditional 6000 damage to a 1200 damage with massive endlag, animation time and otherwise

every day of the week, the 6000 damage is better

hell, we don't know the concrete values of the new stego swings, so saying it does 1200 damage on no stam is just silly

[fiery shard]

when i killed fg stego i did damage with lmb bites because lunging did little or no damage. i hope the experts show me how to do 6000 damage with lunging

[dusky surge]

its called drowning lol

[golden coral]

You just hold them under water until they drown, given you have the stamina to do so. It's indirect damage, but as long as you can hold on, they're not able to do anything to prevent their death.

And if there is a lack of stam for drowning, then that should be adjusted

[true ginkgo]

I'm usually argueing for stego buffs.

But not a fan of it getting the old tail attacks with no stam. Way overtuned.

The new attack looks great fun though, and far more useful for fending off bigger stuff.

[golden coral]

I'd hope it's more useful to fend off smaller stuff overall

[fiery shard]

i understand perfectly well how to play deino. problem is damage and stam, which deino has significantly reduced. i mean that now deino is not an argument that stego can attack without stam

[golden coral]

And I did point out that if you're lacking stam to properly drown things, that's an issue

[dusky surge]

thats kinda what it needed tho

[golden coral]

Can't agree there, don't want things to be more or less defenseless out of stam. And alt attacking out of stam already means less damage and so on.

[true ginkgo]

I wouldn't mind it getting a smaller and less damaging 'tail flick' without stam. but that massive 1250 damage swing feels very overtuned to get for free.

Especially as stego with a perk can regain its stam whenever it takes hits, which pairs super well with its huge health pool.

[golden coral]

Sure, you could adjust the damage, but attacking out of stam is fine. And nah, don't think we need to focus on getting a tail flick, if the current attacks can work out. And you don't get 1250 if you attack out of stam, I think it's 25% reduction in damage at least or something like that. As for the perk, well that's a perk issue, no surprise there.

[hidden kettle]

phew it should if you swing at a wall or tree but i dunno sadly 😦
ehm dibble is big like 1.5-1.6 tons somewhat there and 240+ biteforce makes chargebite look pathetic tbh 😄
ye 1v1 its a best but i think raptors gets it way easier due to turning speed. also it felt like its really into bleeding hard 😄

[keen plover]

Yep, 25% damage reduction

Now they need to tweak the attack rates for creatures that are out of stam

Right now it's as quick as having stam

[golden coral]

Yeah, heard it bleeds a lot, I guess it's like carno maybe, so guess bleeding is how to kill it.

[golden coral]

25% slower as well or something would work I guess.

[hidden kettle]

felt a tiny tiny bit worse than carno but was red health straight away so bleed was more obv 😄 but yea bleeds good.
still dont get how it got biteforce like a chargebite 😄
depressed cera noises

[keen plover]

Yep. Then it's fine. So they can't spam the attacks but they're forced to time it 👍

Literally what most people should be advocating for rather than leaving creatures defenceless lol

[golden coral]

Ceratopsid beaks hurt!

[hidden kettle]

was always pretty sad to see a stego sit down accepting the stam to die imo 😄

[golden coral]

But it's funny that the one critter currently that should bite very hard, doesn't have a bite

While stego, that by no means looks like it'd bite very hard, has a bite to use

[golden coral]

Pretty much. Not being defenseless, but more vunerable, sounds reasonable enough

[hidden kettle]

you mean ? 😄
its not gettin in a better spot with dibble 😄

[golden coral]

? Doesn't dibble have a gore as a basic attack anyway?

[neon willow]

Yeah, it's strange that carnivores get normal attacks that decent damage, but previously herbivores with no stamina had just their bite, which does like nothing

[hidden kettle]

well lets say it got potential to be the next KOS teno thing 😄

[dusky surge]

its not a bite is the answer

[hidden kettle]

default attack*
better ? 😄

[dusky surge]

isn't dibble the slowest land-based non-apex in the game?

you'd kinda have to be dumb to die to it

also from what i've heard, it stomps like an oncoming locomotive

[frail bobcat]

it does

it has omni weight and dilo feet syndrome

[hidden kettle]

doesnt feel that loud tbh
ye its slow af thats true 😄
but still i think its needs some tiny tweaks like not knock 3x ya weight style 😄

[dusky surge]

so it's slow and it's loud as sin, i dont think you gotta worry about the whole KOS dibble thing

its like how KOS stego is only a problem if you let it be

[hidden kettle]

well same was teno before wasnt it ? 😄
slow, loud but still tried to kill everything it sees 😄

[dusky surge]

teno ain't that slow lol

[hidden kettle]

only cera was like .5 km/h slower so it aint been fast 😄

[dusky surge]

cera was .1km/hr slower than teno

[hidden kettle]

even worse ye ;D
dont get me wrong i like dibby and it should be strong i just see no counterpart ( like it often was ) except big raptor packs (as always like what else should it be than raptors .. 😄 )

[dusky surge]

how is that worse

that means cera has a better time escaping it

[hidden kettle]

that wasnt serious `:D
speakin like at least it was slower 😄
should have made that more clear ig

[rigid tulip]

it comes out extremely fast and pairs obnoxiously well with chasing things, its honestly easier to get hit with than a teno kick

except it will one shot u

[hidden kettle]

💯

[golden coral]

It is a bit odd that stego finally got a moving attack, and it's an extremely offensively oriented attack, rather than a defensive "stop following me" kind of ability.

Meanwhile the standing version can't be used even while walking, and has far more limited reach.

[rigid tulip]

No reason to ever really use the other attack it seems

[golden coral]

I guess the idea for the running power swing is to run up to a rex, whack it, and then run away... Which while, okay sure, it sounds cool, it doesn't quite feel right

[hidden kettle]

would give it the normal swing while trotting tbh. could increase stam for it due to keep walking by 10%ish and would be fine 😄
i like that it has some more offensive abilities but that rushing swing should may consume more than just a swingy swang 😄

[rigid tulip]

Theres no way stego will by any means be capable of outmaneuvering a rex in any way

[golden coral]

I mean, I want stego to be able to fight off rex, but I was kind of thinking of it doing so in a more defensive manner than a preemptive strike

[rigid tulip]

True, I think it would be best for it to have gotten a slow, defensive attack that just does nuke level damage as a deterrent.

[golden coral]

Though to be fair, stego holding it's tail up like a scorpion is odd to begin with, so maybe I should have expected this kind of attack

[rigid tulip]

A well placed and hard swung thagomizer to the head should do more lethal damage than a rex bite

[golden coral]

But yeah, I was imagining stego would walk away from rex, if rex tries to get around to the head, stego would whack it, and keep walking away. Either rex gives up, or eventually takes enough damage to die

But maybe the idea here is that the running attack does enough damage that if you headshot the rex, you can then "facetank" it if it tries to go for you anyway

But we'll see how it goes, I imagine the attack might not be all that after people are used to it as well, so there's that

[hidden kettle]

well .. waitin and well see ig 😄
still a nice add for stegos especially the low stam thing is a huge thing.
stegos running out of stam and be defenseless aint cool 😄

[golden coral]

More attacks/variation and all that is nice, absolutely! Makes it more fun to play overall

[hidden kettle]

stegos will be way harder to kill now which is totally fine.
was actually pretty lame to "out time" stegos by 60-70sec chargebites 😄
should still be possible but at least they wont run out of swings `:D

[alpine sleet]

i never play stego but im glad they look more like actual dangerous creatures because i never liked they idea of them attacking a few times and then running out of stam

also they will send them to unofficial along trike and rex so its normal to see them as op playables but that wont be for long

[true ginkgo]

If you're ran down by a stego, what can I say apart from 'skill issue'.

It's the slowest land playable in the game.

[rigid tulip]

I wasnt aware stego could now attack whilst running so I played like I normally have for the past year, payed for it

[golden coral]

And this is why we read patch notes carefully! xD

[rigid tulip]

lol I like to discover things for myself for a day or so then read the notes, it feels more fun that way

[true ginkgo]

honestly i'm not a huge fan of how stegos attacks are set out. I'd rather it had a standing power attack, and a walking/trotting tail flick.

now it's got a sprinting power attack, and a standing... other power attack?

[golden coral]

Fair enough! :D

[golden coral]

It's a bit odd, yes

[craggy ledge]

@rigid tulip The Dillo's resistance to bleed is really ridiculous, I hate that so much, omnis can easily kill it waiting the dillo bleed out while he is above a rock or something, Dillo should also jump a little bit, no pounce and should not have that crap bleed resistance.

[crisp cloud]

You will only think that the herbivorous dinosaurs' counterattack ability is not enough, but in fact it is the players' lack of skills. Now it is a thorough herbivorous dragon island.

That's funny,

Never consider carnivorous dinosaur players

hehe

[dusky surge]

i play carnivore, i prefer a challenge over walking steaks

[coarse blaze]

Not to mention omni currently is one of the most forgiving carnivores we have on the roster.

Basically just about anything your size is free food because of how bucking/bleed works and you can now pounce 3/4 angles on any playable without much forethought.

[slim dragon]

Devs are biased towards herbivores !!!

[dusky surge]

the mutation for bucking is basically a must-have with how omni is atm

especially as a common omni prey item

[coarse blaze]

Is it actually worth it? I wasn't entirely sure but if it makes an actual difference that's really nice.

I'd rather bucking just work of course and not need a mutation slot but anything is better than nothing.

[dusky surge]

yea ofc lol

[coarse blaze]

I'll for sure slap that on my steg once I get the chance for sure

[crisp cloud]

I just hope the game is balanced enough Today's herbivorous dinosaurs have the advantage of terrain, with trees everywhere, and now they have a variety of powerful means of attack.

[coarse blaze]

I think it's completely valid to use the terrain to knock omnis off since the mechanic that's meant to doesn't work.

Bucking punishes the bucker, for creatures like steg who don't get a free alt. attack without stamina it's very unbalanced as is. Bucking doesn't even throw omnis off, it just drains a little of their stamina without any mutation.

[crisp cloud]

It's so funny, if every player uses the terrain to counter omni What is the meaning of Omni? Then let's just delete omni

In the balance feedback section, I only see one herbivore dinosaur player after another asking for enhancements. Developers do the same

[coarse blaze]

Think about where you attack people and do it in the open, not where they can clearly brush you off.

Omni is incredibly strong as is and it's getting a grapple mechanic that will make it even stronger soon enough.

[crisp cloud]

When each of your prey is attacked, you look for trees and terrain to counterattack. How to deal with it? Choose the next prey and repeat the previous search for trees and terrain to counterattack.

[coarse blaze]

Not every hunt ends with a kill. You're going to fail some hunts yeah, that's playing carnivore.

One pounce will kill a fullgrown pachy, freshspawn omnis can completely drain any adult's stamina if they buck.

[crisp cloud]

Tell me where the empty space is on the map.

[coarse blaze]

Between Delta and Swamp, Highlands, East Plains, North Plains, South Plains, West Rail Access

Any of the coast for the most part

Northern Lake, Highlands Lake

I could find more if you want more

[crisp cloud]

hehe

[coarse blaze]

If you follow any migration zones you'd know these locations already. As someone whose played a fair bit of omni you should have been to these areas.

[crisp cloud]

The habitat of herbivorous dinosaurs is all terrain and trees.

[coarse blaze]

You don't play herbivore do you?

West Rail, Highlands, Delta - Swamp, the Northern lake are all herbivore migration zones.

[crisp cloud]

I don't want to talk to you anymore, you are just a player who is born to protect herbivorous dinosaurs

I just want you to tell me, if you encounter every prey countering you in the terrain, how would you deal with it?

[dusky surge]

you know you can dismount before you get rammed into terrain, then pounce on a new side?

[coarse blaze]

Think a little bit and don't pounce where you can be knocked off, if they decide to run while you're latched let them bleed and then just bite them to death afterwards.

Or yeah, just jump off beforehand.

If they decide to run around or buck with you, as an omni they should die unless it's a cera or steg really.

[dusky surge]

i play mainly omni and troodon

[coarse blaze]

NOOOOO! You're an herbivore main clearly.

[crisp cloud]

Have you ever played Omni? In the current situation, would what you say be too funny?

[dusky surge]

omni is in a VERY strong spot

if you wanna see why dilo started disappearing, that's why

[coarse blaze]

I've played everything on the roster, we don't exactly have much to choose from.

Your post was downvoted quite a bit, to assume you're right and everyone disagreeing with you MUST be an herbivore main is really narrow-minded.

[slim dragon]

Everyone knows he's a stego main and he's the one who sent death threats to the devs so they buff stego

[coarse blaze]

Omniraptor is good, it's strong, it's 100% going to be an issue when grapple comes out.

[dusky surge]

Lots of people here like playing carnivores but also don't want walking meatbags for herbivores

Like me

Might play more herbivore now that stego feels actually complete and dibble exists

Apparently stego is no longer damned by a lack of stam, shockingly

[coarse blaze]

I actually, genuinely felt happy that a carno who waited in a bush in SP for me (a sub diablo) while I was trying to regroup killed me. It was smart and he was big, clearly doing well. He waited for someone to be misplaced looking for diet food and it worked.

On the no AI server I should add

[coarse blaze]

How so?

The new attack yeah?

[dusky surge]

it can hit things while zero stam

[coarse blaze]

Like it's normal attack can still be used with no stamina?

Does it do the same DMG or is it lessened?

[mint star]

I have been considering playing stego now that it can do that coolass swing

[coarse blaze]

I'm currently growing one, I haven't played steg in ages

[keen plover]

Nah omni is countered very easily. That plant in front hard counters omni and it's in pretty much every biome. You pounce and you're instantly off

[coarse blaze]

I assume this is the bush people mentioned, I genuinely never knew which. How does that work with say carno, the hitbox is so low to the ground for that little bush.

[keen plover]

you can crouch when pounced

and full grown omnis can still be thrown off even if the carno is standing

[vital marsh]

Any dino is strong if it is played by a person with hands growing not from the ass.

[coarse blaze]

That is pretty strange I won't lie.

I really thought the hitbox wouldn't connect with it standing

[keen plover]

Hard life for omni. Everything knocks it off and there's nothing ok about it.

But dealing with pounce sucks so we're in this spot where omni just isn't all that vs larger things, but good vs same size

[coarse blaze]

I just want bucking to work accordingly, I want the stamina drain to be weight based given freshspawns can tear through an adult ceras stamina if they even try to buck. It's just a whole situation with the bucking v pounce thing.

As a pachy, if there were no way to scratch them off via terrain as it stands there's nothing you could realistically do to fight back if pounced.

It just all needs work and grapple does genuinely concern me.

[keen plover]

Oh I know

Pachy sucks vs omni in certain scenarios but that shouldn't be a hard change

[vapid pulsar]

People have forgotten how OP dibble was even in the legacy.😭

[dusky surge]

i mean, idk what that'd have to do with anything?

legacy isn't evrima

[west plank]

Under 1200 kg can be knocked down, over 1600 kg can be stun

[dusky surge]

what?

[west plank]

I think it should be better like this

For the dibble attacks

[dusky surge]

it should be able to stun at least a carno

[west plank]

maybe 1800 but current rates are ridiculous

[dusky surge]

i reckon it should be able to knockdown a cera at most

[west plank]

It could be 1400/1800, but its knockdown is a little too strong, maybe just a stun would be enough.

[west plank]

If cera falls to the ground, he has no chance of escape and dies.

[frail bobcat]

and?

[dusky surge]

it can literally outrun it lol

[frail bobcat]

its faster than dibble

if omni gets hit by a stego, it dies

[west plank]

This is not a apex

[frail bobcat]

and?

elaborate further#

theri is also no apex

[west plank]

In 1v1, there was a medium size that almost certainly won, I think this needs to be balanced.

I think it needs to be a little more gameplay-oriented.

[frail bobcat]

dibble is meant to destroy stuff in 1 vs 1 tho

thats its whole schtick

[west plank]

Yes, but the opponent must have some luck anyway. He has 300 bite force and different attack types, for example, when he hits by looking at the ground, it hits twice.

[frail bobcat]

just leave it alone as cera

[dusky surge]

you can sitll outrun it

[west plank]

No, these potatoes are perfect for cera.

By the way, has Dibble diet been given for Cera or Raptor?

For the last patch

[frail bobcat]

omni has recieved it for S, instead of deino

[slim dragon]

Why should cera be hunting a 1v1-oriented tank that is bigger than itself, alone ?

[frail bobcat]

look at the username

[slim dragon]

I literally have the same

[west plank]

dibble will always be better but its current state is a bit exaggerated

[dusky surge]

"these potatoes are perfect for cera" except for the act that they're pretty much perfectly made to kill ceras lol

[frail bobcat]

act

[dusky surge]

I am multitasking

[frail bobcat]

act

[west plank]

There is a high probability that the drop rate will be reduced, why are we discussing this?

[frail bobcat]

cera will likely still be knocked down

also, QA said that it was working intented

[west plank]

Maybe but tenonto never

[frail bobcat]

could also be

[dusky surge]

dibble is meant to be an utter menace, at the cost of poor speed for its size

which makes sense given it's by far the slowest non-apex land creature

[west plank]

300 hits are an indication of this

[dusky surge]

a cerato is over 4km/hr faster than it

[slim dragon]

Is adult dibble slower than stego ?

[frail bobcat]

no

[west plank]

No

[frail bobcat]

and stego is a apex after the changes

[west plank]

Stego max speed 32-33

[dusky surge]

what no

[frail bobcat]

2.5 K damage babey

[slim dragon]

Oh, stego is apex now
Damn classifications

[dusky surge]

FOR REAL

[west plank]

Wht

[dusky surge]

IT HAS KNOCKDOWNS AND CAN DO ACTUAL DAMAGE YES

[frail bobcat]

charge swing

[west plank]

Wow

Gg for the rex

[dusky surge]

Doubt lol

[west plank]

After this update, the life of deinos walking on land is no longer existent.

[frail bobcat]

yes

[west plank]

Poor Deino XD

[frail bobcat]

I like that stego is a proper playable now

[coarse blaze]

I feel like they messed around with stegs thirst drain, it used to be 45 minutes or so but I feel like I'm getting thirsty every 30 or so now

The drain just feels a bit fast, same with it's hunger but it might just be that I haven't played steg in a bit.

[pale aspen]

#balance-feedback message If a creature that is 1.5tons throws its weight at you and you’re let’s say 100 more kgs are you gonna get knocked down?

Dibble sort of relies on knock downs to make distance or badly hurt said dino as it CANNOT run away. As for smaller dibbles stunning things that are 2x its weight, that’s a bit silly but an adult dibble should knock down or stun most things under the 2 ton range as again it cannot run away. Some attacks shouldn’t flip certain dinosaurs but if you’re 55km/h or heck over 40km/h and get hit by something moving at 36 you def need to rethink your tactics, some dinos just can’t hunt what they want all the time nowadays, me and my friends slaughtered stegos back then, dibble and new stego are lessons as to the much more horrifying things to come soon.

[dusky surge]

I wonder if the knockdown range was tuned for foes like alberto or allo

[pale aspen]

Probably

[hidden kettle]

probably yes.
i mean it can knock down a really wierd range like 20% knocks a fg cera or a 30% a fg dibby which is kinda wierd imo 😄
Allo would make sense especially with it hunting dibby, or at least any other big A carni 😄

[crisp cloud]

Developers' work is garbage

5000 bite

[dusky surge]

lmao what

i aint downloading that lol

[dusky surge]

@polar vine that stun might be the only way stego can beat the soon-to-come rex

which it will need to do if it wants to live lol

[polar vine]

Completely forgot about rex, mb-

[golden coral]

What?

[west plank]

I think the stego will need this damage because Rex will probably crush its head in one go and have enough damage to kill it.

[dusky surge]

i mean ideally it wont be that easy but that is my point yea

[west plank]

Yes, that's why there will be a war in the sense that whoever makes a mistake will be eliminated.

[west plank]

I guess 2 headshots can kill a Deinosuchus XD

RIP deino

[dusky surge]

god that'd be funny

but it does need a running start, so i doubt it'd be that easy

[west plank]

Yeah but this is so strong

[dusky surge]

Yea, and deino can drown stego, so it's kinda equal

[west plank]

Ceras will not be able to approach easily anymore

[west plank]

Denios just need the ability to drag

After that it will be enough

[west plank]

I think 2 Deinosuchus should be able to kill 1 stego by pulling it into water.

[dusky surge]

Nah, I disagree, it shouldn't be able to drag things larger than 4 tons in

[west plank]

There is no need for him to pick him up with his mouth. If Stego gets too close, Deino should be able to drag him a little and throw him into the water.

[dusky surge]

thats what happens when it enters water

[alpine plover]

Before making a feedback post, what’s everyone’s thoughts on dilos current state? Besides the wonky hitbox, more balance sided.

[deft blaze]

I WANT IT ERASED

GONE

[alpine plover]

that’s how I feel of a certain playable

[deft blaze]

I HATE DINOSAURS

[dusky surge]

is it dilo

[alpine plover]

maybe…

[dusky surge]

goodness

[alpine plover]

It feels uncommon to see dilo players much now, even before dibbles release on hordetest

[dusky surge]

raptor backpounce kinda changed everything

[hidden kettle]

raptor pack is by far the worst you can meet somewhere `:D
Dilo still strong and in a good spot imo
same goes for most dinos. some could just see tiny tiny spice up stuff like dyro f.e.

[alpine plover]

I agree, same things happening with galli too. There both not unplayed but over time I wouldn’t be surprised if their player base reduces greatly when you see things like allo, rex, trike etc.

[leaden remnant]

bite his head

[leaden remnant]

mfer is FAST

just outrun everything or if chased by a carno dodge blind him and run while spamming clones

[golden coral]

@spark hazel What exactly is a stego running down, aside from other stegos or a deino? And if you make it very draining, then you'd limit the ability to actually run up to said big, dangerous target and smack it and then retreat, or otherwise keep fighting. Unless you're meant to only run for a few steps, but that sounds like it would make it easy for the target to avoid the incoming hit.

[spark hazel]

Stego players are now chasing people around and smack them down with charged attack...kinda more effective using charged attack while running vs normal swing.
No, its not gonna remove its ability to fight off a big attacker.
Stamina is not gonna instantly to drain down very fast
You can chase very far before the stamina starts to drain very fast in similar way to when you are spam jumping

if that makes sense

[golden coral]

Again, what are they running down? Stegos aren't fast. And I'm not surprised the charged attakc while running is the most useful, it's the only really good attack, the standing one is very limited in reach, and the old attacks are no better than they used to be. I'm not sure it's ideal to make actually good attacks worse off. Though sure, if the stamina somehow worked like that, it might work, and could be applied to other things too, but it's still a little odd. And I didn't say it would remove the ability, but it would make it more predictable, and worse off to use. Of course, that depends on how far you consider "chasing" for that matter.

As it stands, stego should probably be treated as if it was a trike, it will charge at you. As odd as that is.

Would have been better if the new attack had been designed to be efficient but "weak", and giving the old attack the power, seems like it would have fit more.

[hidden kettle]

everything that cant run due to mixpacking with a packy .. 😄
dirty mixxies 😄
but ye that powerswing nice as it is, is kinda broken atm since you can hit omnis that are latched to you.. and they still hit further then their tail got in lenght 😄

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, mixing is a problem. But to be fair, if you can't run, even the basic attacks will hit you xD

Huh, strange if the hitbox is off, though to be fair, new implementation

[hidden kettle]

im fine with it have more dmg for more stam as a normal hit it should be dangerous af 😄

[golden coral]

And the hitting omnis that are on you, well, I doubt it's anything but a bug, unless it's planned as a counter to grapple

But I doubt that, so probably just a bug, since again, new implementation

[spark hazel]

1 Stego been killing 40 adult Dibbles

[hidden kettle]

nah ig its just a hitreg/bug issue while the tail kinda grinds the omni on the way forward or so... still that shouldnt be a thing xD

[golden coral]

Eh, I think "normal" attacks for stego should be oriented towards being good vs speedy/agile opponents, which tends to have less health. I would have given the new one the 1250 (if you need to one shot carno on head and all that) and the old one the 2500, as a power attack. And then giving stego something else as a proper "alt attack" like how teno has claw, but can't use tail slam without stam (or can it?)

[spark hazel]

they just charge up their tail attack and 1 hit you get crazy stunned by its tail attack

[golden coral]

Wait, if the tail itself hit the omni, maybe it is intentional

[spark hazel]

I have nothing against its power

[golden coral]

Did it what, chase them down one by one or something?

Cause if that's the numbers, you could literally swamp the stego I'm pretty sure

I know baby stegos are somehow faster than baby dibbles, which is dumb

[spark hazel]

It killed group like they where nothing

[golden coral]

Aren't adult dibbles faster than stegos?

[spark hazel]

dibbles dont have very good stam tho

[golden coral]

Hm, so maybe an issue with stego run time then

Would be fine to cut down on that, stego shouldn't really be running around too much

Though if there were multiple dibbles, they could just spread out

[spark hazel]

cuz now it just promote lots of kos now xD

[golden coral]

The whole "run in the same direction together" is a terrible idea

[spark hazel]

they where trying to flank it

but they got mauled down

[golden coral]

Why were they trying to fight it?

Look, if the issue is "stego run things down" then that's one thing

[spark hazel]

idk ask the Stego for why is wanted to kill them

[golden coral]

But if you're now claiming "they were trying to fight it"

[spark hazel]

they tried to defend themself and run away

[golden coral]

Then the issue isn't "stego can run with powerswing for too long", the issue is "we didn't reatreat when we should have"

[spark hazel]

but it just followed them

[golden coral]

Whatever the reason, doesn't matter, people will kill if they think they can, we all know that. If you're faster but weaker, you run away.

[spark hazel]

They where a mile from it tho

[golden coral]

So, all the dibbles ran the same direction?

[spark hazel]

they still got runned down

[dusky surge]

im gonna be honest, it's very much a dibble issue if they think they'll magically win through the power of friendship

[golden coral]

Or did the stego somehow run back and forth between every dibble in all the directions?

Either that stego was hacking if it could do that, or something else went down

[dusky surge]

apparently speedhacking isn't uncommon on horde

[golden coral]

Cause while it's possible stego has more runtime than dibble, stego can't run for too long

[dusky surge]

although i haven't seen it yet

[golden coral]

Yeah, sounds more like it was some kind of hacking if the stego managed to run down multiple dibbles over an extended period of time

Unless dibble literally has carno charge level of run time?

[dusky surge]

its not got great stam, but certainly not that bad

[spark hazel]

But a pack of 10 Dibbles should be way enough to kill a Stego

[golden coral]

Should they kill a rex?

If stego can potentially fight off a rex, then well, I don't know, maybe treat the stego like that

[spark hazel]

The stego or 10+ dibbles?

[dusky surge]

we don't know what new stego is capable of so that's a rather bold statement to make

[golden coral]

@hidden kettle I'm honestly not sure if the "hit omnis latched on" is a bug. I remember it being mentioned that "even being hit by the tail itself will hurt", so if the anim do actually hit them, then it might be intended?

[golden coral]

10+ dibbles

Because I don't really see 10+ dibbles hunting a rex or a trike, so not sure they should really hunt a stego, or even an acro

[hidden kettle]

well i dont know im not a dev but it doesnt look intended tho 😄

[spark hazel]

You can tell that to the 40 people that died there

[golden coral]

Does it happen on the standing version as well, or only the running frontal swing?

[spark hazel]

most of them was adult dibbles

[dusky surge]

that's kinda funny ngl

[golden coral]

Most of them? Also 40 dibbles, if they were all of that, should have been enough to swamp the stego

Literally, stand around it, can't run, can't run swing xD

[spark hazel]

but idk if that player was cheating or not

[dusky surge]

if FOURTY dibbles died to it, that's not on the stego man

[golden coral]

But yeah, if there were more than 20+ of them attacking it, well, they'd literally attrition it

Dibble has 1500 health, and hits for 300 base or something?

Sure, the new swing will kill them in one go (maybe not on headshot, but probably), but even so, that's one dibble at a time, while the other 3-4 are attacking

[spark hazel]

they have a heavy attack and run something over attack

[dusky surge]

hell, even if it was cheating, each adult dibble can do 300 damage against stego's 6000HP, or 600 damage if a head hit

Literally, 20 good body hits would kill it. That would mean 1/2 of the total dibbles would need to get a single body shot, and that number becomes smaller with headshots or repeat hits.

[golden coral]

Literally, if you had 30 dibbles, even if 20 died, they'd win

So yeah, I don't know, it seems like there's something off

[dusky surge]

mathematically speaking there's literally no reason why the dibbles loss besides skill issue i guess

[spark hazel]

Stego can stagger lock a dibble tho

[golden coral]

Yeah, but can it hit multiple dibbles at the same time?

[dusky surge]

if the dibble lets it get the first hit and has no support

[golden coral]

Normally you swing on one side, giving the other side free hits

[dusky surge]

if you have 3 other dibbles attacking on all sides there's really not much the stego can do

[spark hazel]

1 swing knocks it down and by the time you are able to stand up....its ready for a new charged attack

[spark hazel]

They tried, but they all died

[golden coral]

Yeah sure, but that's one dibble at a time, meaning the others.... are free to attack?

[dusky surge]

again, it's a new dinosaur vs a reworked dinosaur

[golden coral]

So yeah, sounds more like that stego was hacking if it somehow attritioned through that

[spark hazel]

they can charge it very fast tho

[dusky surge]

it's really hard to say what's "OP" and what's not when the dibbles have like, zero experience with the animal, and are clearly not made for apex hunting at all

poor turn radii plus speed really don't lend nicely to stego killing tbh, even if it hits like a truck

[golden coral]

Would be nice if we had a test server

Could try this out, see how it can turn out

[spark hazel]

I have not played the stego yet, so i cant really say much
But it seemed like lots of players are using it as a very good KOS tool now to hunt down anything they see

But idk that player looked like a god

[dusky surge]

well, yea, it got reworked to be better

because it is now built as a threat to REX

EVRIMA Rex

[spark hazel]

that i understand

[dusky surge]

Obviously it's going to seem quite scary when its competition is that thing

[golden coral]

Well, it might be an issue with dibble more than stego if dibble lacks speed (like how the juvie does) or stamina issue

[dusky surge]

im unsure what dibble's stam is, it seems like it has faster regen for its size, but certainly less stamina

[golden coral]

Why juvie dibble is slower than juvie stego is very odd

[dusky surge]

dibble seems very sprint-bursty

[golden coral]

Go try it out, see how easy it is to chase things down!

[dusky surge]

it also doesn't have a terrible trot, so its encouraged usually to take things slow

[spark hazel]

was thinking on that xD

[hidden kettle]

still f that dibble can just insta knock like carno used to do..
why is it okay on one and not okay on the other one ?!
just once again got insta knocked and killed defenseless by a potato that knocks me down on my tail <-<

[golden coral]

Well, dibbles are hopefully slower, but I don't think they are meant to be able to knockdown on tail hits? Also their knockdown range seems a little high, shall we say. Apparently they can knockdown way larger things.

[dusky surge]

one moves almost 20km/hr slower than the other

[hidden kettle]

a little high ?! 😄
its barely 4-600kg knocking everything in its way XD
20% knocking fg ceras it a default attack already as stong as one <-<
and they cant even use their full potential now ..
ngl if this mf doesnt get any counter part or a balanced knockdown im done with this S-Diet XD
its just frustrating bs that those things become the new rampage teno 😄

[dusky surge]

dibble is slow as hell, that knockdown is defensive, it's not half as good as carno's high speed bullet train knockdown

[hidden kettle]

still that one just can walk you over with no sense at all 😄

[rigid tulip]

anyone else just now realizing that dibble completely destroys the entire roster of similar size?

[hidden kettle]

that knockdown aint defensive.
thats pure madness to dinokind and no its better than "carno train" cause carno train got less priority in a matchup ram <-<

[dusky surge]

its a knockdown that anything that can actually worry about it can just shift + W away from on account of its horrid speed and poor stam

[rigid tulip]

the only dino I can kill dibbles with in a 1v1 so far is teno, cause it has stun

[dusky surge]

pretty sure dibble is meant to be more in the realm of something killed by omnis, troodons or other nimble critters

due to its open flanks, poor speed and lack of resistances to bleed and so on

[rigid tulip]

its just annoying because we have such a limited roster rn and nothing is supposed to kill eachother apparently because there are extremely one sided matchups that just stay that way

[hidden kettle]

so why so many catching up on me ?!
i dont belive those thicc dudes run 28.something if im able to run around 40 ('-' )

[dusky surge]

dibbles run at 36km/hr, the slowest of any non-apex terrestrial

[rigid tulip]

I can understand this when the game has more options, but rn it feels like if you pick a dino you essentially cannot combat half the roster

carno you cant fight stego, teno, dibble. dilo you cant fight stego dibble pachy. etc.

not saying that is a bad thing, but rn it really makes things less fun

[dusky surge]

which is good, game ain't a fighting game, you gotta pick your hunts

based on what you personally can do

[hidden kettle]

ye and a non full grown cera is slower and ends up being dead. so cera is the slowest non apex carni if you wanna play like that 😄

[dusky surge]

dibble is slower than cera while juvi, if we wanna bring youngers into it, which is a weird thing to go into

[rigid tulip]

I completely understand stego being invincible to carnos but dude rn we just cant afford for there to be essentially 0 interaction between the largest and most played dinos

in the case of teno/dibble

[dusky surge]

pre sure carno was intended for an overhaul regardless

im not sure if its intended for this update, but it is getting an overhaul to make it less godawful to actually try and play

[hidden kettle]

100%
like dibble may be fine in the future as it is and we got bigger counterparts but for now we got one shotting herbie terminators and carnis that act like their prey 😄

[dusky surge]

namely it'll be a true small-game hunter, rather than wasting 30% stam to maybe knock down a galli with charge

omni as it stands seems to be also slated for the large game destroyer, what with pounce to pin acting as a looming threat to all things that once needn't fear pins

[hidden kettle]

just saying a fg dibby doesnt give a S-diet about it being bored killing everything its gonna get its horns on 😄
so " just run" doesnt work a lot of the times 😄

[rigid tulip]

delete pin

[dusky surge]

we're getting more

[rigid tulip]

wonderful

[dusky surge]

not particularly my favourite but omni has pounce-to-pin that apparently works on stegos and possibly even larger, allo has a pin, rex has a pin, etc

[dusky surge]

literally just run works because its slow and has bad stam lol

obviously dibble seems powerful and carnivores seem hopeless when like 50%+ of a server is diablo lol

your numbers against their herds isn't going to be fruitful

[hidden kettle]

as said... growing a cera f.e. its most of the time faster than ya due to growth.
the thing isnt that there are many of em .. but herbies overall are better armed atm and make look carnis pathetic even before hordetest 😄

[dusky surge]

and growing a dibble, everything is faster than you during growth so often times you'll get nuked by a roaming predator, it's not particularly one-sided in that regard

[rigid tulip]

I dont that is ok for a dino to be ridiculously better than everything in its weight class just because you can run from it. U gotta understand that player interaction is good for the game, and when ur decreasing player interactions by making something broken, nobody likes that

[dusky surge]

i disagree with this, besides carno, i can't see a single "pathetic" carnivore before this horde test

[rigid tulip]

40% dibble already 1v1s over half the roster

[hidden kettle]

ye totally gettin nuked by anyone i can just throw over and kill as it tires to engage me except my own species ? 😄

[rigid tulip]

with no trouble

[hidden kettle]

yep.
even knocking a fg dibble at that point 😄

[rigid tulip]

a at max 50% dibble knocked over and 3 shotted my fg dilo lol

[hidden kettle]

im just waiting for devs to go " trolololol" was just a prank wanted to see peeps knock a lot 😄

[rigid tulip]

only dino in its weight class that has a chance at 1v1ing a dibble player (a really bad one) is a teno

[dusky surge]

i mean, again, the concept behind dibble seems to be something you kill with nimble critters

bad turn radius, open flanks, no attacks that cover said flanks like teno or stego

and low speed

[rigid tulip]

its damage and stun are still completely ridiculous compared to all of its competitors its not even close

I just want it to participate in mid tier combat

[spark hazel]

problem with that is the Dibble can turn on a dime

[rigid tulip]

stun powercreep is becomin an issue imo. any dino with a stun essentially guaranteesa at least 3x your dmg every hit. A cera or dilo has to work 3x as hard for 1/3 of the damage

[hidden kettle]

a default attack as stong as a full on chargebite ? naaahhh thats fine isnt like that the stronges bite a carni has to offer atm isnt it ?

dibble even corpsecamp us now <-< those bloodthirsty bees 😄

[golden coral]

I don't know the exact values, but I've seen a tiny dibble knock over a carno, so something do seem a little off. I think it'd be fine if it could knockdown things up to, 1.5 times it's weight, it'd be 2250, which would be just about carno size, which honestly should be fine. And if not knockdown, then a stagger would work. Knockdown on smaller things, stagger on larger things.

[spark hazel]

keep in mind that something that moves 20 km and are 1500 kg will give you a kinetic energy about 23170.2 joules

[golden coral]

@rigid tulipI think the issue is more so that we're lacking in the "defenseless" department, because well, people don't want to play them. There's not neccesarily a lack of roster, there's a lack of dryo, beipi, galli, and so on.

And a lack of "wounded" status as it were, since fights are most often to the death, so finding vunerable larger prey that you're not actively watching and thirdpartying isn't neccesarily easy

[hidden kettle]

ye kinda like carno got 😄

[hidden kettle]

so why does it makes sense against a carno ?!
thats 55km/h x 1800kg ... just sayin something aint right 😄

that impact force could roll over trucks 😄

[hidden kettle]

well sadly thats true as well but honestly there isnt much to make em interesting yet
cries in defelseless

[spark hazel]

can also be a reason that the dibble have much longer horns and are also are walking on all 4 unlike carno that walks on 2 that can be easily knocked down to the side or off balance

But it might be too early to say much now,

dibble is new and we need to learn on how to counter them effective

[golden coral]

True, but I also think that simply sustainable critters aren't valued. It's the herbi version of free AI for carnis, there needs to be more risks of starvation, so there's some use in being small and easy to keep alive more often than not.

[hidden kettle]

ye right now herbies can grow at eez by sanctuary literally gettin free diets and dont need to hunt food.
other hand carnis got it way too easy by liveing on ai.
was able to grow 3 or 4 carnos in 2 days just useing AI at a spawn with safe water.
there really should be some competition between all species to make smaller more useful and lager less mix packing.
so yea life should be hard here at some point.

[golden coral]

I'd argue the growing part isn't the main issue, a part sure, but it's the "how easy can you remain alive as adult" where the issues really come in.

[hidden kettle]

yes true as well

[cobalt dagger]

Am I the only one who feels like omni is really oppressive at the moment?

[tight cove]

@cobalt dagger the mutation is probably glitched

[vital marsh]

#general-feedback message

@simple silo

Did I understand correctly that you couldn't escape from the stego or did he kill you?

I wasn't on the test because of the work, I can't understand if the problem is in the mows or in the same speed small “potato” (dibble) and a huge multi-ton thing

[minor zealot]

Stego is slower then adult Dibble and has less stamina. Dibbles can get away, that Dibble herd just wasn't smart

[minor zealot]

That's a Hacker then. I played stego to test it out, it cannot run down dibbles at all.

[golden coral]

It can run down dibble juvies, because for some reason, smaller dibbles are slower than stegos

Including juvie stegos that can run down juvie dibbles, oddly enough

[minor zealot]

They're short legged potatoes. Ofc they will be hunted down

[golden coral]

Yeah, but a stego being faster than a dibble? Not sure on that one to be honest

[minor zealot]

A child can't outrun an adult. A puppy can't outrun a grown dog. It life

It's not faster then an adult dibble

[golden coral]

Sure, but juvie stego is also faster than juvie dibble

[minor zealot]

It also has longer legs. I do agree baby Dibble needs to run a tad bit faster but stego isn't the problem

[coarse blaze]

It genuinely pains me how many people upvoted this. This isn't a stego issue. #balance-feedback message

Most things on most herbivores aren't "intended to hunt down players" but players will be players.

The difference is in most cases you can just outrun steg, they're like 28 km as adults.

It might be because I've never died to a stego outside of other stegos but I just don't understand how this happens most of the time.

[crisp cloud]

@coarse blazeHehe, you only consider the Stegosaurus and not other players. I said yesterday that you are a player who only considers the Stegosaurus.

So funny

[golden coral]

I mean, the issue mostly seem to stem from diablo being slow, rather than stego being fast

[golden coral]

What's the issue there?

[crisp cloud]

So do you think that the attack power of the Stegosaurus is reasonable?

[golden coral]

None of that relates to diablo being slow and apparently run down by stegos

[golden coral]

For an attack that is meant to deter a rex, yes

[crisp cloud]

What about others?

[golden coral]

Unless you imagine rex to be about as "fragile" as stego, but I doubt we're getting a rex that's only 6K weight/health

[golden coral]

What do you mean with others?

[crisp cloud]

stego dil

carno cera

[golden coral]

Considering how powerful diablos knockdown and stagger is (apparently 2x it's own weight if not more), and it being faster and probably more capable of getting stamina back, I imagine we'll see diablos hunt others far more than stego

[golden coral]

Should never hunt a stego. If you're not alberto/allo sized (and in pairs at least) or larger, stego should be left alone. Just like a trike, rex, giga, or anky.

[crisp cloud]

Diablos's stamina recovery rate is very fast.

[golden coral]

They don't hunt deino after all, at least not much or often that I know of (at least not adult deinos, and you can hunt smaller stegos after all, just like you can hunt smaller deinos)

[golden coral]

So it'd probably be better at hunting than stego then

[crisp cloud]

Now at the gateway, no one can stop the Stegosaurus

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, diablo can stagger a almost 4T stego apparently

[golden coral]

So stego is finally an actually powerful critter, that's not a bad thing

Unless you imagine rex and trike to be as "weak" as stego have been, but I doubt that

[crisp cloud]

Carnivore players are getting a raw deal because the feedback balance channel is flooded with herbivore players

[golden coral]

Not really, carnis are not doing bad by any means

[crisp cloud]

These few game updates have all weakened carnivorous dinosaurs

[golden coral]

Omni is getting grapple, which will no doubt make it overpowered again, cera is getting some updates, as is carno (making it better at running down small things)

[crisp cloud]

Yes, you think carnivorous dinosaurs are strong because you only see those really stupid herbivorous dinosaurs standing on the great plains.

[golden coral]

So I don't know, not like carnis aren't getting something

[golden coral]

What? No, I'm looking at stats and mechanics and so on.

Carno will be getting better at hunting the small game it should, cera is getting more vicious bile and all to make it even less pleasant to fight or contest food with (hopefully can't be used too offensively), omni is getting the pounce to pin, for good and ill.

[crisp cloud]

The gateway is full of jungle, which makes Omni lose the ability to fight. Standing in the jungle, the herbivorous dinosaur is not afraid of any opponent.

[golden coral]

So you only care about omni and refuse to consider any other carni?

[distant torrent]

to be fair dibble gets absolutely shredded by ceras and omnis that know what they’re doing

I’ve been soloing dibbles today as cera and it’s been pretty easy to bait and dodge their attacks and abuse their slow turn rate

even in the jungle and against rock walls

[crisp cloud]

Now it is difficult for 4 adult Ceratosaurus to kill Stegosaurus, even if it is a juvenile

[golden coral]

Omni is a problem child because without terrain, you can't defend yourself, and with, omni can't really pounce. But I imagine pounce to pin will help there.

[golden coral]

It's not, if 4 of them can't vomit, bait, use corpse buff and take down a juvie (though itd be good to know what size juvie), that's kind of a skill issue

[golden coral]

I'm sure it'll be even more fun with omni grapple pin. Can only go well.

[crisp cloud]

That's because they lack combat experience, and you are an excellent hunter. It's just that your opponent is too stupid, not that Dil is too weak.

[golden coral]

Then why can't that reasoning be applied in all cases?

[crisp cloud]

He vomited 8 times

[golden coral]

Lack combat experience, that stego was a really good player I guess? Or do we only use that argument when it suits you?

[distant torrent]

they were pretty good. I’m not all too experienced with cera, I just know enough about dibble to abuse their turn radius and attack delays

[golden coral]

And if he did vomit 8 times, then they could have literally waited out food/water and so on

I'd argue those ceras just need to adjust for the new power swing and they'd have done just fine

It'll be interesting to see how trike and rex will be, if people still think stego is too powerful, since I doubt stego will really fight them (you're probably not going to trade blows with a rex, the power swing seems to be a preemptive strike and then go away and hope the rex takes the hint)

[mint star]

what i expect to happen:

1. rex and trike release

2. noone knows how to fight trike, and so its immediately seen as "WAY TOO OP DEVS FIX" whereas rex is seen as the messiah that needs to end the trike scourge

3. someone finds out a method for fighting trike that makes it effectively a cakewalk

4. trike is relegated to the "stegosaurus" tier whereas trex isnt touched because "BIG carnivore STRONG !!!" or something

[golden coral]

Doubt it, honestly. Trike is far more accepted as "do not mess with" than stego seems to be. I'd argue trike and rex are the "safe" ones when it comes to sheer power. With the rest in various states of "should be really powerful (spino, maybe giga)" to "it's still a hadrosaur (shant)". I doubt you'd see as much arguments for acro being powerful, even if it is apparently considered something of an apex and has the chokehold, simply because it's still an acro, just like how stego is "just" a stego.

[mint star]

[dusky surge]

i can totally see this happening lol

[dusky surge]

You are a player that refuses to consider the herbivorous dinosaur, so there's not much difference lol

[coarse blaze]

You actually didn't say that yesterday, you said "I don't want to talk to you anymore, you are just a player who is born to protect herbivorous dinosaurs" after I gave you genuine advice on how to hunt as an omniraptor since you were struggling.

[dusky surge]

With the addition of herrera, just sitting in jungles is not always your best plan. A single well placed pounce will have you bleeding out hard

[coarse blaze]

Won't one herrera pounce kill an omni via bleed? Excluding mutations that is.

[dusky surge]

yup

also, just because carno and omni aren't excellent forest hunters doesn't mean herbivores are OP? Try dilo, troodon, herrera or even cerato for a more jungle-based hunting style and you'll see better results

[true ginkgo]

Yeah this one has always confused me. People seem to just accept rex or trike being powerful, but stego seems to be more of a mid tier in peoples minds. Along the lines of tenonto and carno, rather than the herbi acro equivalent.

[dusky surge]

acro is a similar size and seen taking down a trike (bigger than rex), yet stego doing the same is apparently wrong

[spark hazel]

thanks for testing this one out 🙂
sucks that it was a cheater on that server killing everything they see

[true ginkgo]

(admittedly I think that acro soloing a trike or cama is stupid too).

I view them both (and theri too) as 'apex lites'.

But for some reason acro is being made a full apex while the community wants stego downgraded to mid tier

[dusky surge]

we are in agreement on that fact lol

[true ginkgo]

Honestly I either want stego moved up to paleomax size (7-8 tons), or moved down to 4 tons and given a remodel to more convincingly flee from rex.

[dusky surge]

god damn i want 7-8 ton stego

but the community is already throwing a conniption over new stego changes

[true ginkgo]

I don't actually like the stego change. Rather than anything which helps vs rex, we now have a sprinting power attack which makes it even more oppressive vs the rest of the roster.

While doing absolutely nothing if it's trying to escape from something larger and more powerful.

New attack is better at hitting in front to guarding its rear.

Like, the idea of a power attack is good. But not using it to sprint and attack forwards.

[dusky surge]

2500 damage + stuns is still good, i see what they're going for

its like how pachy works, charge the threat and scare it off

not to mention the bleed lol

[true ginkgo]

Unless they make rex insanely sluggish to the point where it's super unfun to play, it's still going to be running down stego.

And the new attack is encouraging stego to run towards the rex.

Rather than move away

[dusky surge]

im curious what the plan is with that

2500 sounds like it'll be one of the highest damage attacks in the game

[true ginkgo]

Dondi already said that stegos rex counter is just 'don't be there'

hard to do when you're a slow walking advertising billboard with low stam.

and no way to cover your ass without stopping to fight directly.

[golden coral]

To be fair, stego wasn't exactly good vs the rest of the roster, and on top of that we have a roster that shouldn't go near a stego in the first place. But I do agree that a frontal, run up to attack, isn't what stego needed, much less what is suited for a stego. Now you have a highly defensive critter acting like I'd imagine a trike would, see target and go "charge" at it.

[golden coral]

I guess the plan is, run up to rex, smack it, then run away, and hope the rex takes the hint.

[true ginkgo]

Rex grapple pin and instikill…

[golden coral]

Maybe not, if the attack staggers the rex

You do get turned around, so you smack it, it gets staggered while you can start running away

[shy pond]

Or it bleeds them...

[golden coral]

Bleed might not help as much, it's not a good deterrent most of the time. Unless one headshot makes rex have to not run/trot or it will bleed out. But that seems like it'd be very powerful if so.

[livid spindle]

Yes, it seems that as long as stego kills rex, there will be no danger. I think stego is either smaller and capable of escaping from rex or stronger than rex, but I think the latter is unacceptable. However, with the increase of some new mechanisms, I think rex may not want to be seriously injured. Sometimes a cera meets a carno, and carno is more sure to win cera, but they may not fight. There are more suitable and safer prey for carno, which is also a more ecological situation. But it is man who controls dinosaurs, and often he will do so as long as the dinosaur he controls has the ability to kill you.

[golden coral]

I'd rather have stronger stego, since stego running is weird. But currently it seems like the approach is, run up to rex, smack it, then run away. Repeat if needed.

[livid spindle]

On the other hand, stego always doesn't look very big. When stego gained weight a long time ago, it didn't seem to change the model, which made stego's combat effectiveness easily misjudged.

[golden coral]

Fair, there's some playables that suffer from that

I think troodon, and diablo as well currently, don't look like their weight (and in troodons case, it got extra health anyway)

[livid spindle]

It seems that we can refer to cera's entry into Xu Li to guard against carno's attack and try to find a chance to escape.

This game often has some counter-intuition, that is, it seems that I should be better than it, but it is not the case.

Many herbivores can do much more damage than they look.

[golden coral]

Part of this could be because people think of the real life animal when that's... not always how the critter works in game and all that. But yes, sometimes the visuals can be a little odd too.

[livid spindle]

There are some problems in the growth curve of many animals, and each version will always be adjusted to the other extreme, which makes some underage animals look small, but their actual weight is not as it looks.

In the last version, there was only a small difference in size between the 1-ton carno and the 1.8-ton carno.

[golden coral]

Very true, stegos look way tinier than they are, and deino before had the same problem. Why people went "how can this tiny thing lunge me"

[livid spindle]

I remember that in a certain version, stego, which looked very small, was actually very heavy.

[golden coral]

Not sure I can recall which version that would be honestly

[livid spindle]

At present, every version will have a problem with the growth curve of an animal, which may be difficult to repair.

[heavy ledge]

balance Tenos omg o_O

Me and a friend just fought 2 Tenos and one of em is bleeding for 15 Minutes straight, both FG Omnis, gave both Tenos a couple of pounces, endless head and body bites, they even hit themselfes and they are somehow still alive after more than 25 minutes of nearly straight bleeding, wtf is wrong with Tenos......

Even with Bleed Resist Mutations or anything this is just ridiculous

[leaden remnant]

uh that is pretty weird

they must've had some stupid mutations cause that ain't possible

[cobalt dagger]

It's funny to me, how all of a sudden now that everyone is playing herbi (diablo) they're also all complaining about migration zones.

Migration zones are why I don't play herbivore as much as I used to, they feel like jail. Plus sometimes, I'm the only herbi on the server and they STILL are missing one of the three nutrients somehow, or spawn on opposite sides of the map consistently causing me to loose diet by the time I get there even as teno, then switch within 15-5 minutes of me getting there - provided I get there before they switch at all, such as it is with Diablo.

I hope they find a way to make migration zones more entertaining for herbis.

[coarse blaze]

@alpine plover Sub adult stego is roughly 28 km/h while adult Diablo is 36 km/h, it's not faster.

[golden coral]

It's faster than sub/juvie dibble, that's where the issues come in

It's more so a matter of juvie/sub dibble being strangely slow, rather than stego being fast. For some reason juvie stegos are faster than juvie dibbles and all

[coarse blaze]

The issue of anything KOSing because it's faster isn't a steg exclusive issue.

I do think Dibble as a fresh is a bit slow but I don't think steg's needs to be nerfed, it's a long growth and you're small for quite sometime.

[golden coral]

Well no, of course not, not like it makes a difference for a juvie dibble really, they can stun/knockdown quite high so might be able to fight back somewhat (honestly not sure if juvie dibbles can't stun/knockdown juvie stegos just as well in return). But it's none the less strange for dibble to be slower than stego somehow

[coarse blaze]

I.. Maybe? I know people are complaining that FS dibbles can stun adults so I wouldn't be shocked if they could stun an adult steg or a juvie. I have an adult alive currently and would be down for someone to test an adult's stun.

I am genuinely curious if it'll stun or not.

Dibble is slow though, for a "fast" ceratopsian it's a bit funky.

I've just seen a lot of "nerf stego" the past 3 days with issues that aren't exclusive to it, and some things just being wrong. One person yesterday claimed that an adult stego outran an adult dibble which it can't and today someone claiming that a sub adult stego is faster than an adult dibble which it also isn't.

With rex on the way steg does not need a nerf or else it will actually just be fodder food.

[golden coral]

Well, people already thought stego was OP, no surprise they are unhappy with new stego. And if rex is supposed to be faster and stronger still, well that should be a fun time for feedback I'm sure. Unless rex gets to be excused for some reason.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

these stamina values are cruel lol

10% immediate stam should not be a cost any attack has like, ever

carnotaurus, looking at you

WAIT HOLD ON IF YOU HIT AN OBJECT IT COSTS 15% LMAO

[vague helm]

For an attack that's 2.5k Damage with knockdown? Yeah I do think so.

Stego should also be incentivised not just spam the uppercut

[dusky surge]

10% is still far too much. We're going back to old stego where all we do is count until it's easily exhausted because of how current stam works then pounce it to death

[vague helm]

Only that you now have far more tools at your disposal, and you can still use your normal swing OOS

[golden coral]

If it was something like 4% for the alt one, 5% for the standing one, then 10% could be fine for the running one. As for adding more to the punishment, I don't know, considering it also applies to the standing one, that seems a bit harsh. If it was only the running one that had the punishment, it'd be a bit more reasonable, but not both that and the base 10%. One or the other would be fine.

[dusky surge]

i agree mainly with stego roaring when charging up the swing, but that's about it. Everything else is insane overkill nerfing to make this thing suck again

oh, and the jab should be an alt-bite

[golden coral]

But in all honestly, the damage values are "backwards", if anything the new attack should be the base attack, with the alt/old one being the power one

[vague helm]

I literally said that bro 💀

[dusky surge]

i know

im agreeing with you

[golden coral]

Yes, the rebinding is needed, it's currently a little odd, and the aim for the running swing could be inverted so it works like the other attack

[vague helm]

My problem with the charge swing is how unpunishing it is for Stego.

2% for that amount of power is absolutely nothing, and I don't think making it 5 is enough either.

[vague helm]

Yeah, that too, but my guess is that's unintentional/bugged

[golden coral]

I'd be fine with 5% for the standing one, 10% for the running one, and 4% for the alt, or well, 5% for the running one, 4% for the standing one, and 10% for the alt if damage values are switched

[dusky surge]

i think if you make it roar, then it's the same deal as charge bite. you have enough "GTFO" like how cerato does, you can easily get out of the way and avoid it. The fact it doesn't make the sound while moving is bad

[golden coral]

Honestly not a fan of the running swing at all, it's really not stego

Now you're encouraged to run at the thing, like a trike, rather than go away

[vague helm]

You still have your normal swing at disposal, especially OOS so stego isn't just a fish on land out of stam anymore

[golden coral]

No, and that's fine, if it's intended. Not sure on that honestly.

It's strange how they decided that the effective attack should be the power one, and the less effective one the weaker one. It really would make more sense if the alt/old was the power version and the new one was the "basic" attack, but oh well.

[vague helm]

🤷 I like the new kit personally

Golfing is just too much fun

[golden coral]

Oh I do like the kit, I just think the damage values should be the other way around

Feels like it'd make more sense. But maybe that's just me.

[dusky surge]

here's what i'd do

• Make stego ALWAYS do the roar (actually warn people it's getting aggro lol why does walking cancel it)
• Put jab on alt-bite bindings
• Let it do those little left/right side sweep moves while trotting because they're basically already legacy attacks and frankly the fact that its got no real good pressure while retreating is kinda lame
• Make the "angry stance" have a set timer before it goes back to neutral so people can't just stealth up and be bastards

Basically, make stego have solid warning that "hey man this is probably something to avoid" rather than butcher its stamina economy, like cerato

I prefer when they balance like cerato and not like carno

Because one kit is fair yet has excellent stamina flexibility, the other one is clunky and has zero stamina flexibility and punishes you for engaging with the stamina-based options

I prefer when the defender is punished for failing to react, rather than the aggressor punished for failing to hit

Albeit, this implies that the defender has fair warning, otherwise the former also sucks

[golden coral]

@umbral solar If that stego was 60%, it was most likely way bigger and heavier than you and thus would have that power with the new power attack, since it does a whole lot of damage. I don't know how much that mutation reduces damage, but unless it does a lot of reduction, it might not be enough if the stego is 3+T.

[umbral solar]

still i was full hp and if that new power attack does do more dmg its stil broken like i said because you can run with it and its faster so still a herbivore bias

i know the reason it got it was so it can compete with rex and other apex carnivores but no reason it should one shot a full hp full grown cera with the mutation

also the mutation gives i think 15-20% value/reduction i think

i know its above 10% atleast

[golden coral]

I don't know, if the attack is meant to compete with a rex, then the power is probably more or less needed, considering just how large and powerful rex and even trike is. A cera only has about 1300 health, it doesn't get oneshot by the old/alt stego attack. I wouldn't really call it herbi bias if a herbivore that's meant to somehow deter a rex can kill a small/small mid tier like cera. I would imagine a rex chomping down or a trike goring a cera would go the same way honestly. And stego is by no means faster than cera, at least not as adult, but it could be that substego is unneccesarily fast. And yeah, the mutation would not be enough by any means, it'd have to do about 50% reduction to save you from the power attack.

[umbral solar]

yeah the move is def meant to compete with the apex carnivores but if your going to make it stong atleast give the move a downside you know? because as of right now its faster the the old stego attack, does more damage, and you can run while doing it so it really makes no sense to me to since theres no big carnivores in the game yet either

other then deino but thats in the water

i would say the powers fine but force the stego to have to stand still

or decrease power but it can run while using it

[golden coral]

I would imagine it's probably not balanced fully yet, similar to dibble really. Apparently dibble can stun an adult stego, so there seems to be some interesting scaling on it's knockdown/stagger. And I think the idea behind the running swing is to run at the rex, smack it in the face and stun it, then run away. And repeat if rex doesn't get the hint. So forcing it to stand still, or decreaese power might cause issues on that front. You can always try to use terrain, if the attack hits any object, the stego gets stunned, so you can either bait for a potential retaliatory strike, or to just gain distance and run away. But it's possible they just upped it all the way, similar to the mutations, to see how things work out. As for no big carnis in, well rex seems to be close, by Isle standards at least so there's potential there. Or if the "shadow" is allo, as some people seem to believe, that could also work.

[umbral solar]

yeah but if the point of the move is to stun and run away then make it do little to no damage because you would stun run and if you wanted to fight back you have the normal swing

[umbral solar]

and on the dibble front it just came out only thing i have to say about it is the stun everything else about it is kind of balanced

[dusky surge]

it's not a great deterrant if all it does is little to no damage

it's also a 6 ton creature launching a medieval spear collection directly into your skull with all its might, "little-to-no" damage doesn't really fit

[umbral solar]

true but im just salty because yeah its realistic but its also a game and having 1 creature one shot every carni that can kill it right now does not make any sense to me

also it was not even a full grown stego it was the same size as my full grown cera so it was no where near full grown and still one shot

[dusky surge]

deino can kill it while swimming, raptor is still great at pouncing it and bleeding it out (although it's not as easy as before because stego is no longer helpless while out of stam)

[umbral solar]

very hard to kill anything as deino this map is not good for deino to many safe spots to drink and to cross most people use bridges

[golden coral]

If it does little to no damage, then the rex would just keep coming after you. You need to both do stun (to get the hit in safely and get out) and do damage so it actually matters that the rex took the hit to the face.

[umbral solar]

use stun then do a normal swing or just stun and run

[golden coral]

I'd agree, dibble seems okay overall, but the knockdown/stun scaling seems very off, even tiny dibbles can knockdown way larger things. Oh and juvie/sub dibbles are very slow, slower than stegos for god only knows what reason really.

[dusky surge]

a stun is not even enough time for the stego to turn around and run before the rex recovers and bites it

[umbral solar]

all i say is make the "power swing" either just a stun swing or make it so you have to stan still to use it

making a stego have to stand still would make it so it cant chase you down or you would have a chance to bite its head while it trys to do the move

[golden coral]

By that time, the rex might be out of its stun and will then grab and grapple the stego. You need to properly deter it, and apparently the way to do so is by having both stun and damage. So you can get the hit in, and start moving before the rex recovers, and damage it so it won't want to follow for more than one more attempt or so preferably. Seeing as rex is liable to be faster, otherwise stego could just run in the first place.

[umbral solar]

any counter play at all would be nice but as of now there is little to nothing you can do if a stego raises its tail

[dusky surge]

honestly i think making power swing usable while standing would make the move better, not worse lol

[golden coral]

Did the stego actually run you down?

Or did you try to engage it and then got hit?

[umbral solar]

yeah true but would that not also make evrima leagacy with more mechanics? it would bring back apex bais if the only things you can play would be rex as carnivore or trike and stego has herbi

[dusky surge]

what?

[umbral solar]

i saw it swing ran in for a bite and then it swung again and one shot body shot me

[golden coral]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there?

[dusky surge]

oh so it used the attack defensively and punished you, i fail to see how that's an issue

[umbral solar]

it swung already and missed when i went for the bite

[dusky surge]

you can't even power swing while stationary, so it had to have gotten another running start to even do that

[umbral solar]

what im trying to say it that the move is broken comes out faster then normal swing is stronger & can be used when moving

[golden coral]

Better reach, compared to the current standing one. Though the punishment might be a consideration, depending on terrain. But still, yeah, it'd probably help more than hinder honestly. I imagine the only reason we got the running is so it looks good when the stego does a full turn and all that.

[umbral solar]

idk it used it i went for a bite and before i could get out of range it went for another and on my end, he swung his tail swing at me in the back and i still died

[golden coral]

Yeah, it's an actually useful attack, and perhaps therein lies the "problem". Because people are used to the old, clunky and rather bad attacks. Now stego is actually capable of offering pressure and being well, fit for combat.

[dusky surge]

i think there's more to learn about stego's new kit before we start screaming for nerfs, especially considering we still need to see the rex matchup.

[golden coral]

I do think it's partially that everyone is used to just "bait attack, go in safely, repeat until stego out of stam, then kill it"

[umbral solar]

yeah i guess but its the isle devs so rex wont come out until mabye next month

[golden coral]

Now it's a little less easy to bait, more akin to other critters

[dusky surge]

there are some things i want to see though, like actually making the power stance call activate while moving, because the "stealth stego attack" is absolutely lame

[golden coral]

To be fair, a month would be really quick for this game xD

[umbral solar]

yeah but thats the point no? that it does huge power has lots of health but is slow

if it had fast attacks like with the new swing has lots of health and does a bunch of dmg that would just be stupid

[dusky surge]

I don't think the new swing is that fast though?

[golden coral]

Not quite, because it makes it both not very fun, and not very good. The whole "have lots of power" doesn't really help if you can't deliver that power. And I imagine both trike and rex will be able to run at you and attack you, most likely all of the other apexes too, so I'm honestly not sure why stego always seem to be an exception.

With that said, if you think rex and trike should also not be able to attack while on the move/run, then it'd be fair

[golden coral]

I don't know if it's actually fast, or if it's that the old attack was just slow and clunky

[umbral solar]

well if you think about it though using you head to attack is way easier then using you tail

[dusky surge]

Old attack was VERY clunky lol

[dusky surge]

If you're built to use your tail, it isn't that hard at all

[golden coral]

Right, but that doesn't really matter for the game. The point is, if trike and rex gets attack on the move, so should stego

There's no real reason to go "sure, let trike charge things, let rex run up and just crush things" and then go "but not stego", despite it having a telegraphed and obvious attack.

And far too many times, it seems to come down to "but stego" and thus, should be bad, whereas other critters get excuses

You're not going to be happier if a trike runs you down, or a rex does it, so why is it just that if stego does it, it's so horrible

[umbral solar]

the only real way to fix that is make stego do more bleed then trike and do more damage but keep the old move

[dusky surge]

And trike and rex might even be faster than stego (no idea if true but its possible)

[umbral solar]

im really only mad about the new move because its faster then the old one and is stronger

[dusky surge]

Well, yes, it needed a move that was both of those things lol

The reason it got that is because with its old attacks, it wouldn't be able to face agaisnt rex

[golden coral]

Considering dibble is slower, even if only during growth, god only knows. But I would imagine the only things that should be slower as adults are spino and anky. Maybe cheirus too.

[umbral solar]

i get testing it now but if comes out before rex does its going to make killing stegos almost impossible unless they somehow swim and a deino catches them

[golden coral]

And well, large sauropods but hey, that should be obvious

[dusky surge]

omnis could still do it (they're also getting pounce to pin which will very likely even those odds)

[golden coral]

To be fair, there's little reason to think that any current roster playable should kill stego, any more than they should kill deino

And now stegos can fight each other, a little more interesting at least

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, that's going to go so well xD

[dusky surge]

oh im terrified but i choose to take solace in the fact that herbivores aren't being made meatbags

[umbral solar]

true but to be fair if the only thing that can kill stego is deino and deino is terrible on gateway its going to make stego broken

[umbral solar]

yeah that would be dumb but like man the way it is now we are going to get rex, trike, kentro, maiasuara. thats 1 carnivore to 3 herbivores

[dusky surge]

we have 8 carnivores and now 6 herbivores with dibble, obviously it makes sense to revitalise the herbivore roster lol

we're also going to be getting bary and austro, who are both carnis

[umbral solar]

fair but of those 8 carnivores we have troodon that cant kill anything unless you have like a pack of 13 lmao herra that can kill things in only certain situations and deino only reason im even grouping deino with herra and troo is that deino is really stuck to places where people dont go like ne and the main river system and well people just walk away from unsafe spots to drink most the time and to get a deino to south plains is crazy hard too

[golden coral]

It will, but that's the issue with making a playable good/balanced for what it should be, vs current roster. No doubt rex and trike will also be the same, and hopefully all three goes to unofficials only.

But it's the same with carno, you have a designated small game hunter, in a roster of small game. If you make carno good at its job, it dominates. If not, then carno kind of suck because it's not what it should be.

[dusky surge]

wrong about troodon lol, as someone who plays it, it's very good at killing things even as a solo or in duos

[golden coral]

There's a fair point about the balance issues when it comes to balancing for the playable itself, or the current roster

[umbral solar]

i would hope they come to official but as of right now i have a feeling that the apexs are going to get out of hand

[golden coral]

They've stated they'll be on unofficials, and that stego would also go there (I hope at least), so I imagine that might be the case until they've sorted out the balance

[umbral solar]

fair enough but still its troodon anyone with a brain would just walk to a water source or tree and one shot it

[golden coral]

And if stego is "overpowered", well, rex and trike are said to be true apexes, even more powerful

So even with new, better stego, it's probably still going to be weaker than rex and trike

I really do not see stego squaring up to either of them, more of a "hit and run" approach and pray they don't really want you dead

[umbral solar]

well stego is a apex and im not saying its overpowered in general im saying as of now it is compared to the rest of the roster

[dusky surge]

stego ain't even an apex lol, according to devs

[golden coral]

Don't underestimate herreras, they can quickly become lethal if they are a proper regiment of drop troopers!

[umbral solar]

but that sounds boring no? that would make stego a oversized like pachy when unless you wanted to fight you mostly hit somthing and run

[umbral solar]

yeah but when do you really get a chance?

[golden coral]

It's not, stego isn't considered an apex. Trike and rex are. Acro, may or may not be one too.

So just saying, stego, for all of it's newfound power, is still meant to be weaker than the proper apexes

[umbral solar]

yeah but still with rex and trike coming out its going to be wild because anyone with a full grown rex/trike wont die unless its to another rex or trike

[golden coral]

At least that's how it was put in the devblog back then

[golden coral]

Fair, it can be tricky, but if you do pull it off, even larger things will find that their blood pool isn't going to be enough

[golden coral]

I kind of agree. I personally find the running swing odd, and would rather stego be more defense oriented. Right now it kind of feels like you're playing more akin to a trike you know, charging at the things, rather than going away and punishing them for following.

But it is what it is, and apparently they want stego to run and swing at things

[umbral solar]

yeah all im saying is that as of now most dinos are small to big mid teirs and making the 1 semi apex we do have be balanced with apex in mid is going to ruin the game before the apexs even come out

[umbral solar]

yeah fair i think if they made the old swing do what this one does i would not be mad because you have a long cooldown for a forward facing swing and a short one for behind and to the side and it could do a stun

because the cooldown is what would make it more of a defense dinosuar and if getting away was a issue make it so in can trot/walk while swinging

[golden coral]

Agreed, I was personally hoping the old one would be the power attack. Like, you'd use it if a rex tried to get past you to get to your head (it'd have to run close enough, just give stego good standing/walking/trotting turn so you can just keep head away if the rex isn't close enough to hit), and then the new attack should have been the weaker "base" attack, used vs most things.

[umbral solar]

yeah i would have way much perfered that

[golden coral]

So you'd have this new, mobile attack to use vs smaller things/things in general, with the slow, clunky but powerful jab for the equally slow but powerful apexes

But well, apparently not how the devs see it

I am unfortunately well aware that my vision of stego rarely matches theirs xD

[umbral solar]

exactly like the clunky old swing with high cooldown but does more damage but the new short swing

so like the poweful swing would take mabye 2 body shots or a singe head shot and the short fast swing would take around 3 - 4 body shots or 2 head shots