balance-feedback-discussion

[leaden remnant]

ofc that's what always happens

[final coral]

Didn’t say weaker bro said balanced

[golden coral]

Which is what will happen to stego, stego cant fight rex

[leaden remnant]

just like any spot you go to as a teno 15 pachies will kill you

[golden coral]

It's meant to run from it

[leaden remnant]

or 75 dilos

[final coral]

Like stego can’t swing it’s tail in water, that’s not making it weaker is it???

[golden coral]

It can't if it's swimming

[final coral]

Like bro lol

[leaden remnant]

cant if it's swimmin

[final coral]

Yes it can

[leaden remnant]

no it cant

[final coral]

In water

[golden coral]

No, if stego is swimming it can only bite

[leaden remnant]

while swimmin only nibbles

[golden coral]

And on hordetest, you can now grab stegos, as stated as well

[final coral]

You can’t rest when you’re in water right?

[leaden remnant]

no you cant

[frail bobcat]

you cant

[golden coral]

I don't think you can, unless it's shallow?

[frail bobcat]

needs to be really shallow for that

[final coral]

Exactly so then no tail swing, way

[golden coral]

Don't actually recall on that one, don't normally sit down in water

[final coral]

Easy balance right there

[leaden remnant]

was the stego swimming or

[final coral]

That puts risk on stego end

[golden coral]

Right, and then what happens when rex or spino shows up?

[leaden remnant]

well there is no tail swing so

^^ while swimming

[frail bobcat]

brother, you can already grab them. what else do you want?

[leaden remnant]

^^

[final coral]

Brother I’m playing official servers

[leaden remnant]

then play hordetest

[frail bobcat]

then join the hordetest

[final coral]

No

[golden coral]

Right, and as we said, play hordetest, that's where the latest balance is

[leaden remnant]

indeed

[golden coral]

Which means, you are currently complaining about something that kind of has a fix already

[leaden remnant]

if you want to be able to bonk stegos, just... play hordetest

[final coral]

I’m not gonna play one single server that’s temporary

[frail bobcat]

official on live branch does not matter

[leaden remnant]

then why are you complaining...?

[frail bobcat]

its not the newest balance

[golden coral]

Then you'll have to wait for the hordetest to be the main update

Though if we go by the potential of dibble coming to hordetest

[leaden remnant]

by playing live branch as deino and fighting stegos you accept that you won't win just like terms of service

[frail bobcat]

If you want to seriously discuss balance, you need to do it in the view of the hordetest

[golden coral]

I think you might want to reconsider, unless you want to miss out on that

[final coral]

It’s not a complaint are you educated? It’s a legitimate study with hours of experience behind what I’m saying

[leaden remnant]

it is a complaint

[golden coral]

Well, you're asking for balance that is considered in the hordetest

[leaden remnant]

and it's already fixed in hordetest so

[frail bobcat]

studys are usually done by scientists. its so far away from a study

[golden coral]

For now, you'll have to deal with live being an older version

[leaden remnant]

just play hordetest, and, if you don't want to, don't complain

[frail bobcat]

I would call it subjective opinion that doesnt even consider the newest factors

[golden coral]

And I doubt, even with hordetest changes, you will be doing fine, unless the pond is deep enough to drown an adult stego, which I think at least one of them are, if not both

[final coral]

Really? Just scientists dude lol only scientists conduct studies?

[golden coral]

But then if another stego comes along, they might be able to "cross fire" you, if the pond isn't big enough

[frail bobcat]

yes, kinda

[golden coral]

So I would still suggest you consider the risks and take them into account the best you can

[final coral]

Exactly so if you can’t rest In water implement a stego can’t tail swing in water.

[final coral]

Sorry you are mistaken go look it up if you’d like

[frail bobcat]

you could call it observation, your opinion on the matter, but please dont call it study. because it is so far from a study

[golden coral]

What does resting in the water have to do with it

[frail bobcat]

its still not a study

[final coral]

.
a detailed investigation and analysis of a subject or situation.

[golden coral]

Just wait until cheirus and spino comes along, that's going to be fun for deinos

[leaden remnant]

if its tail isn't covered by water it absolutely should be able to swing

[frail bobcat]

did you document it?

[final coral]

Does it say it needs to be documented lol

[golden coral]

Even if you add so stego can't jab at all in deep water (instead of just making it cost more stam if anything), then stegos can still stand in shallow water

[frail bobcat]

how many people participated in your study?

[golden coral]

And then you still have to take things like rex, or trike into account

Or maybe a rex shouldn't be allowed to bite if it stands in water deep enough

[final coral]

I bet all of you Main stego and don’t like my valid points,

[frail bobcat]

its your own subjective opinion on video game balance, that aint a study

[final coral]

Yup

[frail bobcat]

THERE WE GOOO

[golden coral]

I do, but your points arent valid at all

[leaden remnant]

i hunt stegos for a living and last played stego when ne plains spawn was still a thing

[frail bobcat]

I have played stego like once, a year ago

[golden coral]

since you're literally putting yourself, in a tiny pond, at risk, and then complaining

[leaden remnant]

in total, i have played it once

[final coral]

Yeah your opinions are biased thank you for your time

[leaden remnant]

and refusing to play hordetest where it's fixed

[golden coral]

Okay yeah, that kind of invalidates everything

You think a rex shouldn't be able to bite in the water because ... it's standing in deep water?

Okay, sure, what about spino? You know, the thing meant to hunt deinos

[final coral]

Do you think it could 20 million years ago lol

[golden coral]

The thing deinos are meant to flee from?

[leaden remnant]

yes

[golden coral]

I think, you should consider game balance

[final coral]

A stego would be decapitated realistically

[golden coral]

And understand that even deino, is going to be at risk from things

[final coral]

Pretty sure no lol

[leaden remnant]

and a deino would be 1 tapped by the stego...

[golden coral]

So even if you got your wish, and stego was nerfed, spino will kill you

[frail bobcat]

realism doesnt matter

[leaden remnant]

get into a pool and bite the water

[final coral]

They weren’t really aquatic anyways

[golden coral]

You've only traded one danger for another

[frail bobcat]

do you main deino?

[final coral]

Btw the pond im at a rex wouldn’t reach,

[golden coral]

And yours aren't? The guy that has invested so many hours in deino pond life?

[frail bobcat]

why not?

where is the pond on the map?

[golden coral]

Then it's not likely stego can reach either, but remember that rex is way taller than stego, so it can go further out into water

And again, you got cheirus and spino

[frail bobcat]

so many that he could conduct a study

[final coral]

Deino cerata and patchy mostly, btw I’m not a toxic player either, I don’t eat babies and don’t eat other deinos unless provoked.

[golden coral]

So all that will happen, will be a spino will learn that "deinos like this pond", and thus come by for a visit

[frail bobcat]

so, your opinion is also biased?

[golden coral]

And when it does, you will die to that instead

[golden coral]

You know deinos are meant to eat each other right, they're cannibals

Anyway, this all seems like it comes down to you picking a spot that has both pros and cons, and now you want the cons to be removed so you can just sit there and be untouchable for all your life

[final coral]

I bet spino wouldn’t have the same health pool as a stego or 3 shot a deino, what I’m saying is there’s no fight, it’s a shotgun to a knife fight situation. At least Deino vs Deino is a fight, there’s no balance on the stego

[golden coral]

... Spino will most likely be way more powerful than stego

Like, lot more health, powerful arms to hold you down and kill you with

[final coral]

That’s really all you took from everything I’ve said, are you a simp?

[golden coral]

Have you seen our spino? It's a JP monster

[frail bobcat]

its gonna be roughly 9-10 tons

[golden coral]

It will be powerful enough to contend with rex, and well, rex is more powerful than stego

[slim dragon]

The closest estimate we have regarding spino's health, according to what we saw in streams and size charts, is something between 9 000 or 15 000

[leaden remnant]

indeed, it's a shotgun to a knife fight situation, and you are complaining about a knife not being enough to kill someone with a shotugn

[frail bobcat]

god damn, he is thicc

[tulip tusk]

cough.

[golden coral]

No, it's just a conclusion

[frail bobcat]

thank you

[leaden remnant]

either bring another shotgun or don't engage 🤷‍♂️

[slim dragon]

big boi indeed

[frail bobcat]

I love this pic

[final coral]

Cool Them I’ll have less stegos to worry about and maybe then stegos will be less bored and attacking deinos for NO REASON THEY CAN’T EAT US lol

[golden coral]

Yeah, you'll just get eaten by spinos instead

[final coral]

That’s fine

[golden coral]

But maybe that makes your death more acceptable, I don't know

[final coral]

At least there’s a reason besides YOU being a troll

[frail bobcat]

About deino not getting bullied by spino

[golden coral]

But honestly, I doubt it, unless you're very much the... biased one here

[tulip tusk]

As someone who used to play deino often..
It’s not hard to avoid stego and just.. not fight it

[golden coral]

Yeah, deino won't be having a good time with spino apparently

[frail bobcat]

he trapped himself in a pond and now is complaining he died

[final coral]

Yeah you agree you can’t fight it

[tulip tusk]

Also in hordetesting they can literally grab swimming stegos

[final coral]

Thank you

[golden coral]

Yes, and thus most of us take that into account

[leaden remnant]

you were never supposed to fight it 🤷‍♂️

[frail bobcat]

thats not enough for them

[leaden remnant]

not everything needs the ability to fend off stegos

[final coral]

I’m not downloading hordetesting

[tulip tusk]

If they cornered themselves it’s really their fault

[leaden remnant]

just... run away

[golden coral]

Why not, honestly curious here?

[frail bobcat]

it is

[golden coral]

Why do you dislike the idea of going on hordetesting so much?

You know you're missing out on new cool things, right?

[leaden remnant]

complaining just to complain

[golden coral]

If we're getting new mechanics, or playables, or anything, it'll most likely go to hordetesting first

[final coral]

Because I have to redownload EVERY time I want to change like if my group of friends hop on

[frail bobcat]

they should just go on hordetest too

[golden coral]

Hmm, I don't know if there's a way around that, like with legacy and evrima, but fair enough. If it does take you a long time to change, I guess it's understandable. But you could maybe try to convince your friends to change too. You are going to be missing out, and well, lots of people are hyped about diablo, but maybe you and your friends don't much care for it

[tulip tusk]

Then just wait for hordetesting to move to the live branch and don’t get salty over deaths
It happens, it’s a survival game, some things aren’t supposed to fight other things, it’s a game where you learn from mistakes
Not trying to attack you here, just stating it

[leaden remnant]

potato invasion

[tulip tusk]

🥔

[final coral]

Like im a chill player and im not expectingg an unbalanced nerf, but a mechanic that puts risk assement on the stego. right now they hae no fear of the waters edge and thats just bias

[frail bobcat]

you trapped yourself in a pond, where stegos could reach you all the time. that death is entirely on you. the stego could still swing and thus was favored to win. dont blame it on balance

[golden coral]

No, it's not bias, because you're not meant to fight a stego

A stego isn't meant to fear a deino, unless it's swimming, or so deep in water that a misstep could be the end

[final coral]

like add leg fracture to deino bite, yall are just hating on me because yall probably just childeren that like to argue but REALISTICALLY and for game equality and even for the food chain of the game the stegos should have the same fear of the waters edge like everyone else, Just like a deino has risk for being on land,

[golden coral]

Which I wouldn't be surprised, if that happens on hordetest

[final coral]

drinking water lmao

[golden coral]

Since stegos will learn that the moment they swim, they get grabbed, so going too far out is now very risky, since you can't be sure what step might be one too much

And stegos swim slowly, so you need to turn around and get back, giving the deino time to lunge

[final coral]

there is ALLOT if shallow areas for stegos to go, so still no risk

[golden coral]

No, stegos can drink safely

[frail bobcat]

Leg fracture would be laughably op

[golden coral]

That's.. they're not meant to fear deinos while getting water, any more than any other large thing is

At least not for now

[golden coral]

Why should stego fear the water the same way a galli does?

[final coral]

that would be perftect , stego lives but thinks twice about continuing engagement, thats an eductaed solution to the problem

[golden coral]

Why should a cheirus or spino fear the water the same way a rex or trike should

[frail bobcat]

you could just facetank it

thats not balance

[golden coral]

Different playables, different situations, different reactions. I don't think a trike will fear the water much either

Or maybe it will, but not from deino, but spino possibly

Though how a spino would possibly sneak up on something drinking with that billboard on it's back is anyones guess

[cosmic pelican]

Stego can still swing with a leg fracture

[final coral]

im not vsioning deinos being able to KOS stegos but to put fairness into the fight wher a FG stego has to think twice before Trolling a croc, like for real if you cant agree you are probably a stego main that has fun trolling Deinos and other player just because you know you can.

[cosmic pelican]

It just wouldnt be able to leave

[final coral]

so add bleed or bile bite

[frail bobcat]

nvm then

[frail bobcat]

bleed is a thing on deinos bite

[golden coral]

No, I don't generally bother deinos unless they lunge me first, but I don't think a stego should have to worry about a deino, unless it's swimming

[frail bobcat]

it doesnt need anything, it can literally delete them if they catch them swimmingh

[golden coral]

Anything large enough should not worry about deino, really, unless again, it's swimming and putting itself at that risk

But deino can already take on most of the roster, even more so now with the swim effect

So I don't think it's a problem that there's a few matchups that's just "don't do it", and the whole trolling deinos only happens if the deino puts itself in a pretty bad spot in the first place

I have to deal with stego having to run from rex, despite it being possible to make it fight the rex instead, so you know, you're not the only one that has a playable that isn't as impressive as you'd like it to be

[final coral]

doesnt do enough bleed, need the bleed affect of legacy lol

[frail bobcat]

what if you try out the new deino on hordetest before complaining about it being too weak?

[golden coral]

I don't think legacy bleed is something to go back to

[final coral]

i played hordetest for a few hours

[frail bobcat]

ok, and?

[final coral]

was a loose example

[golden coral]

Fair, but giving deino very good bleed might be a balance issue for other reasons

Same with fracture, there might be a potential risk of making deino use bite more than lunge again

[final coral]

my friends got on and switched back to officail lol my point, is all revolved around official servers

[frail bobcat]

so you didnt conclude a study about deino on hordetest?

[golden coral]

Anyway, can you point out which pond you're trying to live in, I want to see how deep it really is?

[final coral]

anything that can be grabbed off the bank why would you use bite istead of dragging it that makes 0 sense

[golden coral]

Because it's effective enough, and doesn't waste stamina

[final coral]

its the only pond with algae cover. THats the BIGGEST reasono i chose that pond, location and the algae cover

[golden coral]

Oh, okay, yeah then I know

[frail bobcat]

I think its hushwood pond or verdant pond

[golden coral]

I've been checking it out too, not for deino, but herrera purposes (so it'd be a lot better for me if there were no deino there)

But yeah, that would be one of the tiniest ones you could settle for I think

[final coral]

it can still hobble out of reach, leg break or bile bite would be pretty affective balance

[golden coral]

Don't know any names for them yet, map doesn't have that added xD

[frail bobcat]

https://vulnona.com/game/the_isle/#side/cfg

[golden coral]

If you break somethings leg, it's not moving away, and bile is for cerato

Ah, they've updated their map too, let's have a look then :D

[golden coral]

Been using Islemaps for it, less names there xD

[frail bobcat]

pretty sure its verdant pond

[golden coral]

Yeah, if I recall correctly, that's the one with algae

[final coral]

its small. but given the spawn change where deinos camp water access, the location is just out of reach from constant canni attack, its got enough traffic to stay entertained, just enough fish to stay alive, and its got cool algea cover, so with that its a GREAT spot, the problem is toxic players given a stego with no balance and no life that have no risk wading through a pond to kill a stego for no benefit

[final coral]

dont think thats it

[frail bobcat]

play hordetest, deinos can spawn at swamp and northlake now

[frail bobcat]

where is it then?

[final coral]

crocs and alligators have infectious bites so it wouldnt be to far fetched, i mean in game stegos have necks of steel right otherwise id pop it off when they got a drink

[golden coral]

Sure, it's good in many ways, but not in all, and you need to take that into account. People can and will kill you for any given reason, it's not really toxic. And well, we're just going to disagree on stego being balanced, well, I agree it's not balanced, but not in the same way you do.

[frail bobcat]

realism doesnt matter

[final coral]

its a realistic survival game lol

[frail bobcat]

its not, look at carno

or omni and troodon existing

[cosmic pelican]

If we go for realism, stego should 1 shot deino as well

[golden coral]

True, but I don't think they'd want to give deino the mechanic that cera has, something about playables being unique. And well, game balance. If we did it realistically, deino and stego would one shot each other, carno would break it's neck charging, dilo would have no venom, nor would troodon. Omni would not pounce because too heavy, herrera would certainly not jump down and be fine like it does, and probably not even climb, due to also being a bit too heavy. And so on.

Oh and rex would be the most overpowered thing ever

[cosmic pelican]

No creature is surviving a 1m long spike to the head

[frail bobcat]

except hypsi, its just built different

[golden coral]

Suffice to say, the game is... realistic but not accurate, I suppose might be the best way to put it

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah hypsi is too op

[final coral]

isnt there more than one dino that can pounce?

[final coral]

deino would, realistically

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon can pounce as well

[final coral]

crocs survive MAJOR life threatening injuries

[cosmic pelican]

I highly doubt lol

[tulip tusk]

Difference is a gator doesn’t hunt based off its bite and bacteria
It hunts based off of ambushing and grabbing

[final coral]

no for real im not joking

[cosmic pelican]

Not ones that pierce through their skulls

[golden coral]

In game? Troodon and omni. Irl, well, omni is a JP raptor, and troodon probably did not pounce no. The whole "restraint" raptors might do, but not any actual pounce.

[cosmic pelican]

Yes they can survive losing a limb, part of their jaw or their tail. But no reptilian is surviving with a punctured skull

[golden coral]

Yeah, they can survive a lot, but getting your entire head kind of demolished, probably less so

But it doesn't really matter, the game doesn't go for accurate interactions like that, or we'd not have a very fun game

[tulip tusk]

Gators in real life aren’t this unstoppable force, they can be killed by all sorts of things, hippos, elephants, jaguars, I’m not surprised it’s larger counterpart also wouldn’t be able to just kill everything

Also you can tape their mouths shut, it’s funny

[frail bobcat]

a deinosuchus skull is 1,5 meters long, with the thagomizer being 1 meter long. lets say that the TWO thagomizers pierce 30 centimeters deep. if they hit the skull with a direct hit, the deino just dies instantly

[frail bobcat]

snakes

[tulip tusk]

That too

[leaden remnant]

realistically, raptor would 1 shot everything with a pounce

... a lone raptor

[golden coral]

Probably, yeah, but they also wouldn't pounce in the first place

[leaden remnant]

which is just mentally insane

[leaden remnant]

they would be able to pounce even tho they're heavy as hecc

and those claws are no frickin joke

[golden coral]

Not sure they would, as in, built for it, or would behave like that, if they were realistic

[leaden remnant]

just not how the normal animation

[golden coral]

After all, it's a JP raptor

[leaden remnant]

have your body on the back while obliterating the side of whatever you're trollin

weight distribution 👍

[golden coral]

If we did the critters realistically, most of them wouldn't work the way they do in game

[leaden remnant]

sure it would not be easy at all but if done, realistically, it would 1 shot everything

[golden coral]

Sure, if we're just looking at the mechanic itself, I'm also talking about how the critters would work xD But yeah, most things would just one shot each other

Which, while interesting, is probably not that fun

[leaden remnant]

yea ofc it makes total sense

[final coral]

do you know how accurate that hit would be to kill a croc and not injure it, really think about that, maybe watch a few episodes of swamp people to really understand what im saying lol

[golden coral]

Also wouldn't that mean smaller raptors would shred their larger siblings as well potentially, given not too large of a size difference

[leaden remnant]

a carno would 1 shot everything with the ram

[golden coral]

Or well, troodons could if they kept pouncing

[leaden remnant]

but if the dino was big enough or the area too big, it would break its neck

so if it rammed the head of a teno, insta kill, but if it rammed the body, insta death

and would be able to 1 shot a stego the same way

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, stego if it hits anywhere aside very end of tail, would oneshot the carno too

[leaden remnant]

troodons would just shred everything in seconds

[golden coral]

You're not walking off a thagomizer to the chest

[leaden remnant]

indeed

[golden coral]

Sure, you'd walk away, with massive internal damage

[final coral]

you say this but they are also ancient in the same sense. literally survival kings

[golden coral]

So even the things that wouldn't outright oneshot, would inflict massive wounds

[leaden remnant]

they still wouldnt take a thagomizer to the head

[final coral]

a pack of raptors can take a stego

[leaden remnant]

i mean TBF realistically he wouldnt even hit the deino but

[tulip tusk]

There are a few creatures you can say that about yet they aren’t unstoppable forces, some are even gooP

[leaden remnant]

because the deino wuold be too low on the ground for the stego to aim the hit

^^ as stegos could not swing downwards

[golden coral]

@leaden remnantIt would be interesting with a harsher server, if they can up multipliers and stuff, at least for a test

[leaden remnant]

actually no joke

[final coral]

a pair of cerats can take a stego, most other dinos have an advantage, deinos dont

[leaden remnant]

would be cool to have this absolutely extreme thing

but growth times would have to be like 3 times shorter

absolutely hardcore survival

[final coral]

I know but i dont want to get into that and further trigger the stego babies here lol

[leaden remnant]

where everything 1 taps everything

[golden coral]

Really? Not sure how well a stego could control the tail, I know it's very flexible (they could reach their own necks with the tail or similar, so there was quite the reach), but not sure on up/down aim. Also irl stegos couldn't run, only do a decent walk xD

So if we had realistic stego, you'd be at best trotting everywhere

[leaden remnant]

it is very flexible, but sideways

up and down... well, difficut

[golden coral]

Because not everything hunts everything

[final coral]

they galloped like a hippo

[leaden remnant]

sure you can aim it a little down but def not touch teh ground

[golden coral]

Though the fact ceratos can hunt stegos might say something about balance...

[golden coral]

What now? I'm pretty sure irl stegos couldn't run at all

[final coral]

they have bile

raptors have heavy bleed and pounce, and packs,

[leaden remnant]

cera bile isn't realistic either 🤷‍♂️

nothing in this game makes sense ngl

[final coral]

dillo hase venom. deino as of right now on official has nothing

[golden coral]

So noted :) Always happy to learn about stego, I've ended up really liking it as a critter xD

[leaden remnant]

lunge ability

water

[final coral]

how so? Komodo dragons do thats where they got the concept

[leaden remnant]

komodo dragons dont make you vomit

[final coral]

against stego on official it does nothing

[leaden remnant]

they bite you once and wait till the wound just gets so badly infected you die

[golden coral]

I mean, deino has lunge, dilo has venom (and god knows that thing is questionably balanced), cera bile is an issue all of it's own, and so on

[leaden remnant]

it does on hordetesting

[golden coral]

Honestly, stego is one of the few that does not have anything

[leaden remnant]

ig it has inmense power and swing...?

[golden coral]

It just... jabs. No mechanic, no alternative attacks

[leaden remnant]

but no actual special ability

[final coral]

only swimming,

[leaden remnant]

good enough

[golden coral]

Too bad that doesn't make for a fun playable itself xD

[leaden remnant]

yep 🤷‍♂️

[final coral]

how long have you survived as an adult stego lol prob a while huh

[golden coral]

Quite long, it's not hard to survive, any more than most playables are hard to survive with

That... does not relate to my point that stego doesn't have any unique mechanic, or ability, or even much in the way of alternate attacks

Even teno, also lacking in any mechanic, has more alternate attacks at least

[final coral]

you can kill everything that comes at u lol i guess thats not fun huh, get a pack together and you get avoided lol

[leaden remnant]

i prefer to, as a raptor, kill stegos in groups

they suck so bad they kill each other for me

[final coral]

i wonder why its not hard to survive as a stego lmao

[golden coral]

Believe it or not, no, being able to kill everything (and be killed by everything, most things can hunt stego), does not itself make the game fun, at least not to me

[golden coral]

You survive easier overall as deino, and as a lot of playables, some far easier

[golden coral]

Worst animal at herding, teno being a close second, yeah it's far more likely they kill each other than the thing they're aiming for

[final coral]

bro teno has knock down are you smoking crack, do you play anything but stego lol it seems you have no first hand experience other than playing stego

[golden coral]

But anyway, if you only measure fun in "what can I kill", then I guess that makes sense with how you see deino then. But I would rather the playable be fun, interesting, and well designed

[golden coral]

Knockdown is not a mechanic per say, carno charge does it, pachy ram does it

While the ram itself, or the charge, would be the mechanic/"gimmick" as it were

[leaden remnant]

yep

[golden coral]

Teno, does not have any "gimmick", since everything it has are just normal attacks, but at least it has more options than stego, which is why teno is generally a very fun playable, because the combat is engaging

[leaden remnant]

i am playing teno as we speak

only teno in this world that doesnt attack others for no reason!!!!!!

[golden coral]

It's a good critter, apparently a little overtuned, but a good critter overall

[final coral]

that is the literal definion of a mechanic lol biting is a mechanic

its coding that allows an action long story short

[golden coral]

Okay, fine, then I'll try and be more specific, so see "gimmick" then or what you'd like to call special attacks

[final coral]

deino has lunge yes, and can grab every player off the shore but not stego, that is an unbalanced mechanic

[golden coral]

.... I need you to read that again

[leaden remnant]

well idk how on earth a deino would grab a 6 ton beast

that is way taller

[golden coral]

You can grab everything but adult stegos, I mean, sure, it's unbalanced

But very much in the favour of the deino

[leaden remnant]

it is not unbalanced but logical

[final coral]

to make it balanced it should be replaced by something else towards stego like bone fracture even to the head or infectios bite or anyhting really

[golden coral]

Do you realize how much of the roster an adult deino, can now take out, counting not only from the shore but swimming

[leaden remnant]

it is not unbalanced at all...

[final coral]

HOW does the Deino benefit lmao

[golden coral]

No, deino should absolutely have some limits

[leaden remnant]

by physics you can't even do that

you can't grab a 6 ton thing as an 8 ton thing that's way taller than you that's also resisting and pull it towards you while on land

[golden coral]

You can literally one shot, indirectly, everything from shore aside from 4+T stegos, and you can one shot, indirectly, everything swimming that you can currently play in the game (and you can grab other deinos up to stego size too, so 6T or what it is)

[frail bobcat]

bro is the most biased deino player I have ever seen

[final coral]

do you realize the roster of the dinos a stego can 1v1 without a sweat, even 1v2, 1v3 you start to sweat lol

[golden coral]

And you, somehow, don't think that's enough, or in favour of the deino? You fear little bar your own kind, though recent changes have made life more difficult since deino now start smaller

[golden coral]

Everything stego can do, deino can do better, in almost all cases. And quite frankly, deino can in many ways do it easier

[leaden remnant]

because... it has thagomizers

[golden coral]

But I was talking about the entire roster we will get

[leaden remnant]

and it's big n strong

i don't see any teno feet competing with a thagomizer

[golden coral]

Of which there will be very many things deino will just...grab and kill, with little to no counterplay bar "avoid drinking here"

[leaden remnant]

it's the final solution to everything: put a spike in its skull

[final coral]

as a deino player we fear crappy people that play it so constantly dying to other deinos, and stegos. as a deino player you die to 3 things, other deinos, stegos and the game bugs

[leaden remnant]

surprised you dont die to more things

[golden coral]

Saying that "anything stego size or larger is out of deino league" is balanced, you still have so much to hunt, and will have to hunt

[frail bobcat]

you should add beipis

[leaden remnant]

as a raptor player we die to literally everything and we dont think it's unbalanced

[golden coral]

Beipis kill deinos now?

[final coral]

be smart on where you drink, that sounds like survival, otherwise stegos just dominate

[leaden remnant]

we just say skill issue i shouldn't have done this, regrow and try again

[frail bobcat]

as freshspawns, yes

[golden coral]

You mean like you considering your pond? :p

Or does the "be smart on where you live" only apply in some cases?

[final coral]

a pack can take a stego

[cosmic pelican]

Beipi is a legitimate threat for the first hour of a deinos life

[golden coral]

Ah, nice! Finally something else than deinos they can fear

[leaden remnant]

and yet a few are guaranteed to die

[frail bobcat]

its so much fun

[final coral]

plenty smart place to live if stegos wernt as op as they are

[frail bobcat]

how are stego better than deinos?

[golden coral]

I mean, you're the one that disliked me pointing out the risks of your pond. And stego isnt op, it's rather... lacking as it were

[final coral]

croc is guarenteed to die

[golden coral]

You know, a stego in the open kind of just dies to most things

[final coral]

whats that risk again? stegos right,

[cosmic pelican]

Just... press ctrl in water

[leaden remnant]

then... dont take on a stego

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, a deino is sitting there nice in it's bath, worried not at all about the rest of the roster

[final coral]

the only risk

[leaden remnant]

or go to the middle of the pond 👍

[golden coral]

Yes, the one thing that can currently dislodge you from the pond

[frail bobcat]

Deino players when they cant instadelete everything 😠

[final coral]

i dont

[golden coral]

Because nothing else is going to be able to make you leave

[leaden remnant]

good

i dont take on 3 dilos as a raptor and complain when i cant 1 shot them

[final coral]

i dont play like that

[golden coral]

Aside from maybe a megapack run by @leaden remnant

[frail bobcat]

you sound awfully like you want that

[final coral]

actully protected the one chill stego i met the other dat

[leaden remnant]

LOL

[golden coral]

Honestly, that would be a showdown, bring your pack to the pond and see if you can get the deino here to leave

[frail bobcat]

probably not

[leaden remnant]

bit of trolling

[leaden remnant]

nah impossible

[final coral]

really, read again, i said i want risk for the stego not to insta kill them, read better

[golden coral]

I will give them the benefit of the doubt, since they've argued from being a very good omni, so maybe they can pull it off

[frail bobcat]

the risk is crossing rivers for them

[leaden remnant]

zero chance

[frail bobcat]

they made it all the way to adult, reward it by atleast not having to worry about drinking

[leaden remnant]

if the croc is nowhere near the water i can guarantee you im killing that mfer regardless of how big it is, but otherwise, nope

[golden coral]

The entire issue is that you've put yourself in a spot with no way out if something you have to fight shows up, and you don't want that to be a risk, and you don't want to consider for the future either, where even more powerful things than stego comes in

[leaden remnant]

we ain't gonna kick it out when it 1 shots all of us

[cosmic pelican]

Also, if stego becomes discouraged to fight deinos, what would keep deinos in the water?

[leaden remnant]

i was just thinking that

on the one hand, it's atrocious that stegos behave like that, but, on the other hand, it also keeps deinos in the water, so idk...

[golden coral]

Fair enough, but it goes to show then that aside from a megagroup of tenos/carnos that can literally attrition the deino and fill the pond, it's not really being at risk

[cosmic pelican]

Id take stegos on land any day than deinos

[golden coral]

It is, but then thats part of survival, like how omnis do kill each other, despite being a pack animal

But I do agree, stegos should have their drink and be on their way

[cosmic pelican]

None of them pose a threat if you dont let them become one, and stego at least doesnt steal all your kills lol

[golden coral]

No need to bother the river worm unless it bothers you first

[leaden remnant]

raptors practically dont kill each other tbh

it's a rare thing to see

[golden coral]

But in this case it's also a matter of putting yourself in a... not ideal spot

[leaden remnant]

yeah

[golden coral]

Glad that's changed again then, it used to be common in periods

Though seeing proper pack fights would be cool

[leaden remnant]

that's weird as heck, ive only encountered that situation 2-3 times in 500 hours of raptor gameplay

most of the time with randoms ^^

[golden coral]

Two packs fighting over hunting grounds or so

[leaden remnant]

that... would be pretty cool

[leaden remnant]

well, nothing can beat deino in the water

nothing stands anything close to a chance tbh

[golden coral]

Eh, it's happened way back, originally omnis cannibalised a plenty, cause well, we only had teno and omni. And it's happened a few times since then too, you get a pack that deliberately goes for their own, for whatever reason they might have

[leaden remnant]

if they choose to get in the water they're a free defenseless meal

[golden coral]

But probably hasnt been much of a thing on Gateway, yet

[leaden remnant]

yeah i figured

[golden coral]

Reminder that mutation for cannibalism might be a thing xD

[leaden remnant]

it will be a thing

[golden coral]

So... yeah, you might get a pack that will go that course

[leaden remnant]

yep

pretty scary ngl

[golden coral]

Why you don't trust randoms that just comes running up to you, as any playable really

[leaden remnant]

i mean tbff

if i ever see a random i never approach him

if he approaches me, i just back off a bit, and if he starts talking like a casual player i chat back n stuff

but if anyone runs towards me im instantly either attacking or leaving

no matter what i am, i shall always do that

and when someone follows me i just run away or mock charge

^^ without chatting ofc

[golden coral]

Back then, I would crouch (for extra distance on pounce) and just watch the other omni approach, if it just ran up, it'd get a pounce to the face. If you can't take the hint that this stranger omni is crouched, ready to pounce, and is following your movements very closely, I don't know what to say, read the body language.

[leaden remnant]

if im a raptor and another raptor, without saying a word, gets close to me, might as well just not risk it and run

[leaden remnant]

yep

i'd rather just run than fight ngl

[golden coral]

Same applies as stego, if you're coming at me too fast, I'll turn and aim, you just get up close, I'll strike.

True, in raptor case running can be an option, less so in other cases xD

[leaden remnant]

but if i feel like i have no choice, zero issues with killing him

[leaden remnant]

yep

just in case the person had good intent ykow

[golden coral]

But yeah, I imagine with mutations, there might be some interesting situations

[leaden remnant]

with mutations im never approaching a random

i mean not like i do it rn anyways

i only approach raptors who are chatting

[golden coral]

Maybe there'll be some kind of tell

[leaden remnant]

hopefully

[golden coral]

The whole albino skin or red eyes or so

Then again, if you're close enough to see the red in the eyes,you're probably already done for xD

[leaden remnant]

yea

pretty much survival instincts

if you see smth sketchy, run or fight

[final coral]

allot of rivers even the swamp have shallow spots to cross, no risk unless deino could drag a stego off the shore not swimming, how about increase stamina drain because of increased size of the stego?

[leaden remnant]

thing is, there is nothing to balance

[frail bobcat]

just accept that you cant grab everything, its fine as is

[final coral]

as sooon as i accept the map is flawless and needs no work done to it lol

[frail bobcat]

what is so bad about the map?

[leaden remnant]

the map needs work done to it, absolutely

[final coral]

many holes to fall through, spawning inside rocks mainly

[frail bobcat]

I get that

[final coral]

youll admit that but wont admit stegos are over powered and can attack everything without risk?

[frail bobcat]

because thats a clear issue while stego is not op?

[final coral]

how is it not?

do you know what op means lol

[frail bobcat]

everyone gets stuck and that, but not everyone agrees that stego is op

you can ALWAYS avoid stegos

[final coral]

how many times have you died to a stego?

[frail bobcat]

not that many times, I usually dont go after adults unless I am in a vc pack

[final coral]

if you main a stego that question is irrelivant to you

[frail bobcat]

I literally only played it once

[final coral]

so you have died to them lol how many times have you killed a fg stego?

even rexs get wrecked in legacy lol

[cosmic pelican]

Rex could facetank stego in legacy, it wasnt even a matchup

Back then stego was absolutely garbage vs anything bigger than it

[frail bobcat]

I have only hunted a big stego a handful of times, so id say like 3-5 max. A couple hunts ended because we played badly or I died early, but we secured the kill

[frail bobcat]

by trying to hunt their babies mainly, I like to go after those

the small ones are usually more than enough to feed you

[golden coral]

They cant, though. Plenty of things can kill you as stego, so no, stegos arent overpowered. Just because deino has one bad matchup, vs stego, does not mean stego is overpowered, or that deino is underpowered.

[golden coral]

What?... No, stego in legacy folds to rex

Not that it's really relevant, they're not balanced for each other in legacy anyway

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, back in progression, even rexes had to be wary of stegos at times!

[frail bobcat]

Stegos are so much less annoying than deino. I can literally walk away from a stego

[golden coral]

Good times, doing more bleed than any other playable, even gigas xD

[frail bobcat]

I never have to interact with one

I like to, because the baby calls are a neuron activation for me and the big ones dont like their kids being gored

[golden coral]

Also if the question is "how many times have you killed an adult stego" then we can ask that for deino too, no? How many times have you killed an adult deino, as anything but deino of course. Unless we count stego vs stego as well.

[frail bobcat]

Stego vs stego, its two I think

I also really love that deino will be made much harder to grow following hordetest

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, Ghost, I really do recommend you try out hordetest, you might want to see how deinos new growth and other changes are like

[golden coral]

Now we just need stego to be almost as hard to grow and sustain

[frail bobcat]

If that means more dead Steglings, I am all in for it

[golden coral]

Almost because I do think herbis should be slightly easier overall than the carni "counterpart", but that should still mean 90% of deinos difficulty level or so

[frail bobcat]

me when deinos cant do anything against bigger deinos now

[golden coral]

I want it both because it should hopefully cull a few of those that only play it because of "power" and also because if stego becomes properly diffcult as a playable, maybe more people will realize how not very fun and well designed it is, for the investment it now requires. Which means we can look forward to the rekit and possibly even more (I can wish at least) to make stego a good playable.

[final coral]

wasnt talking about vs stego, ive seen allot of trikes stand against rexs

[frail bobcat]

then these are bad rexes, Rex is like the best playable in legacy

[golden coral]

It's easy to just let things be when you can just afkgrow in a corner, and huddle up in 3+ stegos, but if stego also becomes a proper investment like deino, then hopefully it comes with improvements to the playable

[final coral]

you can walk away from deinos, they suck on land

[golden coral]

At least we are getting the rekit, and hopefully that'll do some good

[final coral]

but a stego can camp a deino all day if the player is toxic enough

[frail bobcat]

you need to interact with deinos, when you drink, when you cross. you are forced to interact with them

[golden coral]

Hm? What did trike have to do with it?

[frail bobcat]

just leave

[golden coral]

Can't, because tiny pond life

And therein lies the issue

[frail bobcat]

I forgor

[final coral]

plenty of water away from rivers

[frail bobcat]

If you choose to camp in tiny ass ponds that you cant escape from, its entirely on you not being able to flee

[golden coral]

It's like if decided to live in an area as stego, that had only one good way out, and knowing that if a rex show up, I most likely can now not run away and will die. This applies to any playable that is faster but weaker (in deino case water, ptera can fly, and so on), and thus need a way out. Don't "corner" yourself unless you're the biggest and most powerful thing around. And even then, don't, because you can still get outnumbered and then you die anyway.

[frail bobcat]

if you play a playable that takes heavy time investment, dont YOLO it into a pond that can be camped very easily and then complain about it

[final coral]

i can flee, the issue is toxic players that will camp for hours because of the LACK OF RISK

[golden coral]

But if you can flee, then how are you camped for hours?

[frail bobcat]

because they are clearly in the better situation

[final coral]

litterally id let a fg stego drink and pass , take a guess why that doesnt happen

[final coral]

why is that

[cosmic pelican]

At that point respect for the stego player, thats some goddamn dedication lol

[golden coral]

It's like a pachy, or omni, jumping up on a rock to be out of reach, but the carno can still reach you from a specific position, so you die because you chose a poor escape option

[final coral]

Because they know they can because in the game their stats are over powered

[golden coral]

Fair, I agree that the stego should just drink and leave, but again, players don't behave like that here

You'll have people kill a tiny juvie because, why not I guess

Depsite giving no food, being no threat, not even as grown (like killing a juvie dryo), but still

[frail bobcat]

because they see a deino being stuck in a pond that they just need to camp out and wait until they can kill it. Stego players are desperate for combat because everyone flees.
You being stuck there must have been a lottery win for that stego

[golden coral]

You should always assume that if something can kill you, it will do its best to do just that

[golden coral]

Not even that, it's purely the "must kill" mentality we have

[final coral]

so then put something in the game that migates that, i mean deino had 2 spawn points and now only have one, like wtf they can do that but not balance the stego

[frail bobcat]

because what else is there to do

[cosmic pelican]

It has 3 in hordetest

[frail bobcat]

they have 3 spawn points

[golden coral]

This is just a specific example, but you have people that will go out of their way to kill anything, even if it literally gives them nothing xD Stego/deino is just "common" because well, nothing else can even go near deino without dying, and most things that hunt stegos need numbers that they might not always have

[final coral]

WHY IS IT EVERYONE FLEES LMAO THEY ARE OVER POWERED fml

[golden coral]

I know. Elders, mutations, life cycle, we have to hope for the best!

[frail bobcat]

which foe except a big raptor pack can take on a stego?

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon packs

[final coral]

how many times have we seen deinos chillin on the bank with other dinos like bepis +

[frail bobcat]

I was talking about fg stegos, not hatchlings

[golden coral]

Hordetest did fix that with adding spawn points. And stego is getting a rekit, so there's hope yet. Deino is also getting a rekit, as is omni kind of. The whole pounce thing. Makes me wonder if they can pin down deinos if they go on land. Would be interesting.

[frail bobcat]

why does that matter here?

[cosmic pelican]

Im not joking, its doable, just takes painfully long lol

[golden coral]

Tenos, ceras, dilos, even carnos at times now with their accel allowing for bite runs, at least vs not fully grown stegos

[frail bobcat]

and 9/10 times everyone dies

[golden coral]

Troodon can actually kill adult stegos too, stam drain from pounce + new stam + bleed is not fun

[final coral]

it shows that deinos arent really a problem and are chilll allot

[frail bobcat]

stegos do that too

[cosmic pelican]

Then krill issue from the troodon players🤷‍♂️

[leaden remnant]

troodons, ceras, raptors, dilos

[frail bobcat]

as usual

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, deino fears nothing but stego and deino (and beipi when freshly hatched, but hey, fresh stegos die to pretty much everything looking at it too so)

But sure, deino is the poor one, while stego is somehow too good

[frail bobcat]

but raptors are the most common

[leaden remnant]

indeed

because they actually need to kill the stego

[final coral]

Deino vs Deino is a fair fight what you mean

[frail bobcat]

troodons only get a big pack once in a blue moon, ceras usually get oneshot in the head and dilos are hydrophobic

[final coral]

stego doesnt even get injured enough to flee really

[golden coral]

What? Also deino vs deino isnt... much of a fight. Though I guess now you can grab the larger ones and dont have to spam bites

[frail bobcat]

Its a damage check

[cosmic pelican]

I wish troodon was more than "juvi omni++"

[golden coral]

Troodon is apparently quite popular lately, but that might change again, ceras can handle it, and to be fair, if one of them dies, the other ones are now all the more dangerous for it xD Dilos will be fixed, and then we'll see how that balance goes

[frail bobcat]

but we will get buffed stego too

[golden coral]

But funnily enough, they all still stand a far better chance vs a stego in its terrain, than a deino in its. And the deino has the ability to entirely "nope out", something a stego can't really do

[golden coral]

True, well, rekit, buff remains to be seen

But we're also getting omni pounce to pin, I'm sure the roster in general will love that xD

[frail bobcat]

I am so scared of that, saying that as a omni main

I really hope its just a finisher

if something is on the verge of dying

[golden coral]

Maybe it can make pounce overall more of a finisher, would be interesting

I would like to see playables in general do more than just their gimmick as it were

[leaden remnant]

it will

at least im pretty sure it will

theres no way they make it so it aitn

[final coral]

Deinos vs each other it’s a risky fight for both isn’t it?

You can look at another deino and feel the risk of engagement, that’s what should happen between a stego and a deino

[golden coral]

Yes, I meant more so in the engagement and how the fight actually tends to play out, but the same could be said for stego vs stego, it's a fair fight and risky for both

So both of them already have that mirror match

[final coral]

But not stego vs deinos there’s 0 risk thank you for finally agreeing

[golden coral]

But that does not mean it should go down like that between stego and deino, due to them being well, different playables with different abilities and all

No, there's risk, but I've never disagreed that stego wins if it doesn't go swimming, I disagree that it being that way is bad or a balance problem. But to be fair, deino can avoid stego as much as stego can avoid deino, unless you deliberately put yourself in a bad spot

But aside from some... very interesting periods, deinos generally took on stegos in pairs, and they can still maul a stego in pairs decently, even if they can't do it quite as well as before

[final coral]

So basically it’s okay with you that deinos are forced to stick to a river and can’t explore other parts of the map?

[golden coral]

Yes, you have a playable that can one shot everything but one thing on the roster (if it's grown enough and not swimming), and you only really have your own kind to fear aside from being very tiny due to beipis

You're playing a deino, a croc, it's how you function

[final coral]

Stego can easily take 2 deinos, think of the dps on both sides of that fight

[golden coral]

You find a spot, you sit there, wait until something you can lunge comes by, then jump out and get it

That's kind of deino life, you're not really meant to "explore", much less live in little ponds really

Just like I as a stego have to trot all around and can't really run due to stamina importance, if I wanted to move faster and explore better, then stego is not a good playable for that

[golden coral]

Not really, and not so much anymore, the quick jab isn't as quick any more now that anims are fixed, and since stego can't both turn and attack, in order to jab at one deino, the other can spam alt/bites on the stegos head

Is one deino likely to die, yes, but at that point the stego will be quite wounded, even more if it decides to finish off the second one, so I wouldn't call it "easily". Can you win, sure, is it costly and risky, yes.

[final coral]

Says who? Did it create the deino? They do travel to different water holes especially for nesting

[final coral]

Stego has range and aoe

They can hit two deinos with one swing

How many times have you died to a Deino as a full grown stego? You main stego right

[golden coral]

What do you even mean? I am mostly telling you that well, you are playing a croc, it's reasonable that you'd be playing it like a croc, more or less. You can travel and explore, doesn't mean every place you find will be suitable for yuo

[final coral]

Wounded is the key word not dead, so you agree it’s 1v3 for a stego to have risk of death.

[golden coral]

Range that is limited due to no mobility, and not really AoE, it's jabs, not really swings. And honestly, not sure you can hit multiple targets, but maybe that does work. In any case, if you're two deinos, and the stego somehow hit you both, you've positioned badly. At the very least it'd be hitting one of you at most on the body, probably on the tail. And I've not died very often, because I tend to immediately retreat if there's two of them jumping me, because I know how quickly it can go bad for me if I stay and fight.

[golden coral]

No, you're at risk of death in a 1v2 if you do not disengage

At the very least you'll have to retreat away, which means the deinos will have to follow you up on land, which they obviously shouldnt

And further issues does, again, come down to you being at a spot where you are at the mercy of the stegos due to lack of options to leave. Just like any playable cornering itself in some manner where it can't really get out.

[final coral]

The chances of finding two fg crocs is also very slim so that increases stego odds doesn’t it, especially with the spawn change there’s been an increase in canni crocs

There was 8 dead crocs at water access last night it was sad

[golden coral]

Two deinos are plenty scary, even for a stego. Can you win as stego, sure, can the deinos win, yes. Is it a fight either side should engage in, no not really. And well, as pointed out, new spawn points in horde test

So while it might be a bother on current officials, it won't remain that way

Though crocs are meant to be cannibals, so I would imagine that will still happen quite a lot

Especially when growth becomes harder, and well, other deinos are good food

[final coral]

That’s the pond, if they made other ponds with Algae or made that pond a bit deeper that would be cool,

This pond is nice and deep but it’s dead

Same with those two ponds.

[hidden kettle]

those ponds are deep enough fora croc (barely if fg) and spawn fish if you stay long enough make it able to survive btw.
i tried every pond/lake/river in this game since stresstest to know if you can be croc safe... you cant.
a croc btw doesnt need any bitefore by just drowning your prey like they should... leading to full adlunt carnos drown in a pond barely bigger then themself to a deino half grown with no diets .. dont blame crocs or stegos to be what they are 😄

[final coral]

Me to. i went on an exxpedition and on each NA server put a croc in each diff pond

[hidden kettle]

Damn congratz i got bored pretty quick as Croc tbh 😄 Made a full adult in each water place once and felt already tilted of it 😄
I dont know how you Crocs can so this that Long ... Respect the patiences for being a long time Croc . Just cant do it 😄 Most other Crocs got the social skills of a Stone or Something 😄 as a pretty extrovert individual i Just cant stay forever and have a Talk of "ya gonna eat me" - maybe.. forna few Seconds before start over again 😄

[final coral]

well by personallity ima pretty chill person and native to florida so swamp puppies are familiar to me, so chillin smoking some but role playing a gator is pretty chill for me, i dont eat everything that comes to the shore either,

[final coral]

adding fracture ability to larger dinos would be a great balance out for the deinosuchous because you can survive a fracture, you dont want it though, and it would set up the deino for future updates when the rex, trike and spino come in, that would be considered a less lethal balance

[thin mantle]

Deino having fractures removed the purpose of lunge

It’s also just completely unnecessary

There isn’t a challenge deino needs to face that necessitates fracture damage for it

Empowering one of the most inaccessible animals in the game with some of the highest health in the roster with fractures would be incredibly bizarre

[alpine plover]

Deino definitely doesn't need anymore crutches lol

[coarse blaze]

Bucking honestly feels like it punished you more for doing it considering how much it drains your stamina.

Freshspawn omni should not be able to drain a FG's stamina the way it does.

[rigid tulip]

Can u use a tree to knock off an omni if its on ur back or no?

[hidden kettle]

as far as i experienced no.
at least i didnt get knocked off. Got the feeling its harder to knock off on hordetest anyway, was hanging on a sarah which hugged a wall that didnt knocked me off somehow 😄
pounce overall still needs a bit of love, getting bitten from the dino you latched on while on it sometimes still happens (could also be the high ping on hordetest now but like 2 sec later is wierd)

[coarse blaze]

Most of this was done via baby omnis, I killed a group and they just kept spamming back as babies forcing me to just log since I couldn't heal. It was so petty and so annoying.

Having 0 stamina and over half bleed from freshspawn omnis is absurd.

[keen plover]

Sort of? It’s a lot harder

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message i would love to see raptor requiring quite a lot of skill but being insanely good even solo if you have enough skill

[leaden remnant]

i once got killed as a fg cera by a pack of raptors, half of my blood was taken away by a single fresh sapwn

i could not even see him

he was too small (there was like no light)

[hidden kettle]

wouldnt make em that strong solo since its a groupy boii
but overall ye would like to see it strong but more skill dependend. and with a pounce that wont bug/bounce for whatever reason .. or gettin bitten while attatched .. 😄

think raptors in general are pretty well balanced and a damn force if a well coordinated group, but thats pretty rare tbh

[keen plover]

Insanely good? How would that work

And insanely good vs what?

[leaden remnant]

with insanely good i dont mean just whoopin everything

i just mean not sucking

[keen plover]

I know dw

[leaden remnant]

because at this point insanely good speaking about raptor just means be able to exist

[leaden remnant]

stuff that takes bleed badly

not requiring 700 miracles to take on a carno that sucks

[hidden kettle]

well thats why some bleed less and some bleed more 😄

[hidden kettle]

true

pretty ez overall

just make it run 😄

[keen plover]

Can’t you kill bad carnos rn?

[leaden remnant]

nope

stamina regen is way too bad to be able to

[keen plover]

Ahhhhh true

[hidden kettle]

sure just pounce it 2-3 secs make it run around and pounce again bleeding out very quick imo.

[leaden remnant]

nope

[keen plover]

Ngl bad carnos give decent windows to bite

[leaden remnant]

you need a full stamina bar pounce to bleed a carno out

and once you're below 60% you're in trouble

[hidden kettle]

time is key ig 😄

[leaden remnant]

actually might be 1 and a half - 2

[keen plover]

I do agree that the current stam regen has reduced the chance of killing much larger game

[hidden kettle]

true

[leaden remnant]

if the carno doesnt move at all he just camps it's perfectly possible to solo him

but the second he runs after you...

gotta hide, 1 min to get stamina decently high up again and he's long gone already

[hidden kettle]

but still managable for rappi packs without sweating for existence id say

[leaden remnant]

if it's a pack, absolutely

but solo is legitimately impossible unless the carno is a camper

[hidden kettle]

thats what they ment to be in D:

so i wanna solo stegos at eez now! 😄

cera big cera bacti 😄

[leaden remnant]

well a solo raptor can definetely solo a stego but

[hidden kettle]

well 2v1 you can get down a carno pretty good tbh

[leaden remnant]

i just wanna be able to regen stamina faster

im not even kidding i would definetely trade way more stamina consumption for way faster stam regen and no thresholds

pounce takes super lil stamina now

but you cant really pounce for long cause damn thresholds

i just hate thresholds tbh

imo they ruin the entire game

[hidden kettle]

raptor got pretty much stam imo and as you say pounce aint that much of a stam burner

[keen plover]

Yeah it’s kind of goofy. Carno fears Omni way too much

[hidden kettle]

ye since they know they bleed out quick D:

[leaden remnant]

carnos usually suck

[hidden kettle]

just latch on it a few secs and make it run around to waste stam and blood then go again.. times on you as soon as its bleeding 😄

[leaden remnant]

i literally killed 9 raptors myself as a carno and im not even a good carno

[hidden kettle]

just need to keep it bleeding

[leaden remnant]

im a bit decent that's pretty much it

[hidden kettle]

then these raptors been really bad 😄

[leaden remnant]

(it was my 2nd time playing carno)

[leaden remnant]

well they were mid

[keen plover]

2 good raptors will always force any Carno into using foliage to block pounce

[leaden remnant]

they didn't pounce each other they timed it correctly

[keen plover]

Or the Carno runs. Either one of those

[leaden remnant]

however, my great savior the palm tree helped me a lot

[hidden kettle]

mid ? 9v1 ?! they could even powerpounce force you to die kinda instant 😄

[leaden remnant]

not with a palm tree

also there was a cera mixpacking witht hem

so half of the fight i was in the open with little stamina

however they committed a terrible mistake

[hidden kettle]

so you should have been dead pretty much in secs 😄

[keen plover]

See that doesn’t count in my eyes. They quite literally couldn’t even pounce you lol

[leaden remnant]

they ran too much and had to stop it for a second to get satmina

and since it takes forever we had a 3 minute no fighting period

getting stamina and healing bleed

[leaden remnant]

the fight started in the middle of ne plains

3 of them were pouncing me

[hidden kettle]

so they messed up with no backup

[leaden remnant]

then palm tree moment for 3 minutes till the cera arrived and kicked me out

i went, from the middle of the lake, all the way to the fences at the entrance of ne plains in the open

trying to shrug them off me

then at the big wall-fence things they had no stam and i had no frickin blood so we stopped

after that i just beat em up and got away

so most of the time i was out in the open till i reached the wall

i say they're decent because they were patient, didn't pounce each other, didn't bite each other, and let bleed do the thing

but still got whooped

so a carno dying to 2 raptors is just miserable

[keen plover]

I guess but 9 raptors?

2 raptors in the open *

[leaden remnant]

thing is since stamina sucks rn they weren't able to do much

cause they just had no stamina

[keen plover]

That I do agree with. I think stam regen is terrible

I especially despise the fact that you can’t regen standing when under 25%

[leaden remnant]

i despise the fact that you practically can't use it

you always have to be way above 60%

which is just sad

stam consumption is really low but you can't even use it so nothing has changed

you only use it when running away from certain death

[keen plover]

Yep. Current hope is modding is soon so I can avoid official server balance

[leaden remnant]

i just hope they rework it

[keen plover]

Well soon as in the next year lol

[leaden remnant]

remove thresholds, allow stam to regen from 0 to 100% while trotting, make it faster and to balance it make consumption faster as well

in short spiro but somewhat different

so it's not use all your stamina in 1 second and get it back in 1 second as well

[keen plover]

Spiro stam of course felt too easy. I’d keep it closer to Gateway personally

[rigid tulip]

Yikes

[keen plover]

But I do think that stam regen should be possible while trotting from any %

[rigid tulip]

Every update raptor feels less like a wildcat that pounces the deer and more like a leech that sticks onto the pig

[keen plover]

And the ramp up should happen sooner. While also reducing the regen times and slightly reducing the total run times

[leaden remnant]

spiro stam was easy indeed

but i don't want smth too difficult

stam is essential, keep it simple

[hidden kettle]

would be too much arcade style for em id say.
For me i loved the stam we had on stresstest. was punishing and a nightmare for most to either z walk for stam or trott around instead of sprinting but i really liked it. also meade fights ezpz since you were able to household stam or waste and die 😄

[leaden remnant]

i just... want it simple

[hidden kettle]

i get that and i think it could be way more simple but should always be a very powerful resource and that feeling may not be there if its getting up quick :/

[leaden remnant]

well either it goes up quick or you can't fight properly

[hidden kettle]

sorry for not getting it but id say stam is good as it is on nearly every dino atm.. theres only one dino i would even take stam from/let it use more 😄
Raptors arent supposed to kill the "Apex of now" which would be the carno in a solo rush. i totally get the point of you should be able to if you are good enough. But still.. it aint supposed to be like that.

[leaden remnant]

sure, it ain't supposed to be like that, but a good raptor should definetely kill a terrible carno

rn you need an insane raptor against one of the worst carnos ever to exist

merely running towards the raptor is already enough to win the fight, literally

if you get pounced, just hol on and then run towards him, he'll run out of stamina and you won't

[hidden kettle]

somewhat true i would say ye

can agree on that

[coarse blaze]

It is actually insane in the worst ways

[hidden kettle]

#balance-feedback message
@analog mirage good idea so far would really love to see some changed around the bacteria, they just vannish after a short period of time. in that case most times its useless..

should be something you want do avoid not a thing you just ignore <.<
should have mid-long term effects.

[west tide]

does anyone know why they removed the ability to gain perfect diet for omniraptors solely off of Npc's?

[leaden remnant]

well tbh that thing should have never existed

no dino should have the ability to get perfect diet from ai

#balance-feedback message aint this a thing already?

when i click left click and back off the bite doesnt register

it only does when the mouth closes in the body

[hidden kettle]

dilo can at the moment which is already in discussion of being too much 😄

[hidden kettle]

thats my experience as well so far.. well hard to tell on hordetest atm D:

[west tide]

i understand why they would lean away from that. but why give dilo the option and not omniraptor. raptor is to small to kill a stego ever, galli and dryo arent very played or at least i never see them. so the only real way to get line diet to start growing at 100% is basically get lucky. I was just curious on the logic. off spawn youre too slow to catch deer, goat isnt in the diet and i have yet to see a single rabit in 15 hours of gameplay on any dino lol. it just seems really tough to grow for a dino that gets oneshot by a lot of things, even when adult.

[leaden remnant]

well stegos can be killed

and you can always get lines from organs

[leaden remnant]

(raptor is its worst enemy rn)

not gonna lie this is kinda logical

[hidden kettle]

ye organs play big roles atm.
jsut kill a non diet dino and eat the organs sadly 😄

[hidden kettle]

it is mostly

[leaden remnant]

i just spawned and broke my legs as a teno

i will commit very bad things

[hidden kettle]

but at a 1.3 tons cerato you shoud not be whooped by a pachy 😄

[leaden remnant]

well, depends

i mean 500kg with that battering ram should do damage yknow

[hidden kettle]

break my legs and run for sure 100% but tank a charged bit and bonk to infinity and beyond is kinda heavy 😄

[leaden remnant]

if you see a pachy go to a body

[hidden kettle]

if there is one

[leaden remnant]

yes

[hidden kettle]

pachys arent a big problem since you can turn your tail to bonk and alt bite tho

[leaden remnant]

cera already has bone break buffs by existing, multiply it with a body

and if the pachy is 100% gonna land a bonk, start eating a bit from the corpse

eating from a corpse as a cera gives you inmense buffs

so much so that a raptor does no damage if the cera is eating

[hidden kettle]

to a certain point yes

[leaden remnant]

not about yknow do a bit of damage, no no, does zero damage

the cera can keep eating while being bitten (kinda not) by 700 raptors

they simply deal zero damage 🤷‍♂️

and ofc fractures n stuff are just a joke for a cera eating from a body

[hidden kettle]

until a certain amount is reached yes 😄

[leaden remnant]

wtf

i just healed half my hp as a teno in 3 minutes

how the hell does that work

[hidden kettle]

said teno too stong 😄

[leaden remnant]

a raptor takes like 20 minutes or smth

[hidden kettle]

but remember at least you got 4 attacks XD

with a kick strong as ceras bite

[leaden remnant]

nono im saying wtf is this how is it so quick

[hidden kettle]

ye

"raptor skill issues" be better at sitting! 😄

[leaden remnant]

real

i just broke my frickin leg again

im never going to reach this damn migration zone

actually let me count how long it takes to heal

[hidden kettle]

"some seconds later"

• yuup good to go 😄

[leaden remnant]

@vocal matrix they kinda are already ngl

[hidden kettle]

@vocal matrix well they shoudnt be a big threat to grown omnis obv.. its still a 70kg (?) duck.
it was a troodon terminator as far as i remember (which is totally fine) and you can easily kill fresh spawn carnos/omnis. (just know that cause i got a carno at west rail). Claws do damage not that bad and also apply bleed that can (dint believed it first) kill low bleed resistance freshies like carno and dilo 😄
once again danger duck did vengance!! 😄

[hidden kettle]

how was ya leg heal btw ? 😄

decent ? 😄

[leaden remnant]

2 minutes brother

took me 2 minutes to heal the leg and 4 minutes to go from 50 ish% hp to full

never seen anything that heals so fast

[hidden kettle]

its just insane 😄
doin a teno as well atm to prove myself ..if they are acutally that much strong or do i just get the dirty end of the stick most of the time for whatever ..
til now .. super chilled growing ins same enviorment as carni with no problems at all. ez food. stronger than a carni same age .. i feel like i picked up ez mode in some settings 😄

and perfect diet for FREE 😄
you can smell your food always where carnis can just smell dead food which is contested then or need sound

a carno just passed me by texting may i get em 😄

have to say food is even more buggy (stuck in your mouth) than on carnis since carni food can rott.. thats actually a issue i feel bad for herbies

[leaden remnant]

herbi food goes away after a bit

atp i just dont even bother if it bugs i let it be till it goes away

[hidden kettle]

wel this tiny thing meant to stay forever somehow 😄
at least its way longet than bugged food rotting for carnis tbh.

[hidden kettle]

true only herbies could smell you anyways.
speakin on this its kinda wierd that herbies can ALSO smell flesh.... why ? 😄
but its too much to ask for being able to smell better for tracking/living food 😄
img you can smell a corpse 1500m away but not a stinky dude sitting in the same bush 😄

[leaden remnant]

tbh it doesnt really do anything if they can smell meat

it smells pretty damn bad so

[hidden kettle]

but afterall it does make it easier to avoid carnis while they have no counterpart to spot/find herbies besides foodsteps which mostly arent as useful at all because if you find footsteps you already saw/heard it :/
you could camp a plan you see but that wouldnt work as equal after all 😄
thinking of this foodsteps/tracking could see some love then ..

[vocal matrix]

beipi shoudnt be locked to killing juvis and troodons since troodon isnt played as much as it should be and juvis wont even go for a beipi so its just KOS

[golden coral]

So what should beipi fight? And why?

[vocal matrix]

i mean once asutro is added beipi will just be free food for it so it should be able to fend of atleast an austro

[golden coral]

Depends on how austro is balanced, it's probably going to be a bit easier to handle than an omni

But if beipi at that points need a buff, it will probably get one, be it for fighting or running

[hidden kettle]

Seen a Lot of troodons Last Weekend tho. I dont See the need of beipi fighting Something bigger than itself especially on Land.. they already can kill juvies and troodons. And of there will be a contesting species Sometime they will Balance them then as they did with other Dinos on new releases as well. But for now its fine as it is imo.

[coarse blaze]

I don't think beipi needs to fight things bigger than a troodon or juvies, not everything is meant to fight everything.

This is the "Well how is the deer going to fight the bear???" thing Don mentioned.

[slim dragon]

Isn't austro like... 350 kg ? versus beipi's 90 kg ?

I assume beipi will be able to escape an austro fairly easily

[coarse blaze]

I feel like most of the time beipi is just supposed to evade other things

[tall bronze]

I agree it doesn't need to be fighting things like Austro at all (unless they're determined of course huehue)

But I do think they could still use a moderate damage increase. Nothing crazy, just something that isn't 25. Personally, I say bump it up to 50. Not too much, not too little.

[shadow vortex]

Beipis just need buffs to their dolphin jump and stamina underwater, imho Wouldn’t talk about anything other until austro arrives

[tall bronze]

Their water maneuverability could definitely use love yeah. The breach is AWESOME.....until you reach adult. Have fun being a rock

[shadow vortex]

Yeah..

[next hamlet]

Playing beipi right now and you have literally 0 reason to ever use the dolphin jump, it's in such a sad state.

Sprint swimming on the water's surface is less noisy, drains less stam, and gets you a further distance without needing to slow down or stop anywhere close to as often.

Hopping barely gets you anywhere and drains you to below 60% FAST. I miss on Spiro when, if you were smart, you could actually regen stamina while breaching by keeping your momentum going.

[halcyon elk]

Hold on, on the live branch beipi breach takes zero stamina they change it in the hordetest?

[next hamlet]

I haven't really played beipi much on the live branch so I couldn't tell you if anything feels different. All I know is that breaching definitely doesn't feel like it takes no stam; that, or the brief moment where you go underwater sucks beipi's stam dry compared to swimming on the surface. Every time I try to use the fun movement I feel like I'm getting punished for it.

[halcyon elk]

I've played on the live branch and spamming the breach (holding shift and space after the first breach) takes no stamina

[next hamlet]

It definitely seems to be taking stamina to me, and I know I'm not doing it wrong because back on Spiro I perfected beipi's jump arc to let me regen more than what would have been lost.

Last time I counted I can do like... 20 breaches as adult before my stam dips enough to where I have to awkwardly sit around so I never breach anymore.

[hidden kettle]

as far as i experience (played it a few days ago) it takes a bit of stam since you "sprint" up the surface to "lunge" above and dive again. but really not much. travelt pretty far as beipi without much problems tho. even its "less fun" im totally fine with useing a bit of stamina for it (less than sprint swim the same distance). It totally makes sense and is a pretty sweet thing so i dont bother as long as its less than "sprint swim" 😄
EDIT : nvmd just testing ( still tiny ) no stam use by shift+space or at least it looks like getting it back(?!) inbetween, so yea shift+space for ever 😄

[sand garden]

Please leave Herrera alone, its fine were its at besides its juvi speed needing tweaking.

[gentle robin]

Beipi needs a habitat where it is king, just like many other creatures. Places where only very small fish spawn or where mudcrabs are hiding in small puddles. An area where bigger Crocs are having a harder time to hide and navigate the terrain. Maybe something similar to the swamps with more roots, or areas where we have lots of rocks/boulders and only small bodies of water. An area where crocs just would not want to be stuck.

[hazy echo]

I think Herra is close, speed improvement is a given, but as an ambush predator and having to wait in position for attack, not regaining stam (to some degree) while clinging is an issue. Absolutely 0 reason to ambush with so much margin for error on divebomb. So much stam wasted. I'd much rather scavenge for food and save stam for getting away from bigger predators to jump and sprint up trees.

[sand garden]

Naaaah its fine, it takes patience and skill to take down a pretty big target and not get killed instantly while doing so. Its about the only class I can enjoy right now and it doesnt need to be spoiled by salty players.

If it was turned into a small teir AI hunter/scavenger that'd be a complete waste and a perfect way to ruin a completely alright class.

[hazy echo]

Not salty, just saw an opportunity to suggest feedback on an otherwise fun dino.

Curious, how would that change make it not enjoyable? Why can't a clinging and unmoving dino not regen stam? If it's realism, standing/walking takes energy, (you ever work a job you can't sit down?) but stam still regens while walking and standing still for all dinos, albeit slowly. But that is all that is being requested.

"If it was turned into a small teir AI hunter/scavenger that'd be a complete waste and a perfect way to ruin a completely alright class.",

Ironically I 100% agree with you, the main difference is that I believe it is already there. That is all I've ever used it for, or seen it used for. This change would take it out of that state.

[tulip tusk]

I wouldn’t mind if herra’s climbing was a tad more refined and less finicky at times

[sand garden]

I'm ok with any changes of Herrera as long as its 'good' changes, any nerfs at this point would make it obsolete and I'd hate to see that come to such a unique class.

One thing I'd love to see is for its juvi speed to be buffed, it can't even catch a frog as a fresh spawn...

[tulip tusk]

I do agree with the juvi speed, that or at least make it so ai reliably doesn’t spot you when you’re way up in a tree

[sand garden]

The ai doesnt even reliably move around anymore besides a aggroed Pig.

I'm kinda sad that deer was removed from its diets when there's so much of them around, why anything is moved out of carnivores diets dont make sense to me honestly, the more options the better.

I'm honestly with a lot of people, the diet system doesnt make much sense and its just a chore.

(Why is troodon on carnos diet? Once your sub/adult a troo is not gonna do anything for you at all)

[coarse blaze]

How much does deino's alt bite do?

[dusky surge]

same as regular bite iirc

[hasty coyote]

Yeah last I checked (which was a while ago) it did the same amount but bit slightly faster. And I don’t recall them really changing anything with it (other than stam costs).

[coarse blaze]

Understood, thank you!

[leaden remnant]

@keen plover sir do u mean this as in bucking related or

cause i agree that bucking is completely ass right now but it's a bit confusing

[keen plover]

Ah. I pretty much meant it as- if you stick to the open, you're forced to buck. Which means you're dead

Bucking is weak

[leaden remnant]

oh i understand now and i completely agree 👍

[leaden remnant]

yes it is completely useless

for example stegos cant buck! if they do, it's a guaranteed death sentence

as ive said a few times i would make it so bucking consumes way less stamina for the pounced not the pouncer, kicks you off after 3 seconds without stun tho, that'd be just way too op, but raptor would need a considerable bleed buff if this happens tho

[keen plover]

hmmm not too sure about a bleed buff, but it might leave omni too weak

not too sure about those numbers

All I know is that it doesn't feel fun currently

[leaden remnant]

well rn it takes a good while to bleed things out so yeah it would definetely be a must

in fact sometimes you kill things by raw damage when trying to bleed em out 😭

[keen plover]

Yeah lool

[viscid schooner]

If this were the case, things like stegos could just count to 3 and swing you as you detach

[leaden remnant]

wait that's a great point

[viscid schooner]

Yeah... personal opinion, I think raptors should be able to choose how long to stay latched, within reason, and not just get forced off into a death sentence because a stego tail is just waiting for them to get thrown off. Although I agree, bucking is pretty terrible right now. There are surely better ways to go about it, but forcing the duration of a pounce doesn't feel very engaging to me

I think maybe just consuming less stamina would work decently well for most creatures

[leaden remnant]

yeah youre right

[viscid schooner]

The system they have in place right now where the smaller the creature is, the faster it drains the pouncers stam seems kind of odd, but I guess I understand the purpose for it. Smaller dino = less health = needs a higher chance of throwing a raptor off

[leaden remnant]

🤷‍♂️

[hasty coyote]

you could make bucking them off give a slight moment where the pounced dino can't attack if they force the pouncer off. Similar to pachy's inability to attack for like a second after a ram.

[viscid schooner]

I'd take having to be smart about detaching over a given set amount of time I get to stay latched

[hasty coyote]

eh, the issue then becomes "how do I make omnis be forced to jump off without just absolutely nuking their stam with buck and without them being able to stay on so long that they can just burn most their stam and kill the prey that way."

Which is why I'd like it if they made a system where bucking would automatically throw the pouncer off after a bit

[viscid schooner]

Wouldn't omnis just spam pounce for their 3 seconds or however long then? They'd be able to use the same amount of stamina either way, just broken up into separate pounces rather than one long one. At least if their stam is drained in one go, they're forced to tap out and regen, which makes more sense to me

[golden coral]

You can already do this, except it counts to whenever you're sufficiently low on stam to either jump off or get knocked off. Having a set time wouldn't change that, you could still jump off earlier before you're "forced" off. It would just mean it's a way shorter time to stay on.

[viscid schooner]

That gives tap pouncing vibes, which I thought was supposed to be frowned upon. Pouncing was changed to begin with to counteract it. The way I see it, it's harder to predict when a raptor will detach if they can choose through their whole stamina bar rather than a set x-amount-of-seconds.

[golden coral]

True, just pointing out that the "count to hit" works no matter, since there's still a limited time before the raptor either gets off, or falls off

But yeah, with shorter time limit, it does lean into tap pouncing, which is troodons style more so

[viscid schooner]

I'm sure we'll see pounce changes one way or another once we get pounce-to-pin

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, that's going to be a mess and a half, no doubt

[hasty coyote]

Yes, but then it gives you more chances to hit them before they get back on. Its the exact reason troodons have issues, they are squishy and have to constantly jump on and off. Except omnis have more hp and the target would have to burn stam to get them off. This can be fine tuned so its fair for both sides, but I think its a healthier solution than allowing omnis to just hit a single pounce and win or be unable to kill-confirm even after burning all their stam.

[viscid schooner]

I'm in favor of a stam depletion rework over tap-pouncing making a comeback, personally

[shadow vortex]

I honestly don’t get it why if an omni is thrown off by a tree it takes literally less than 1 second to get up for him. They just slide a bit and boom, again on their feet running away… With the latest hordes of omnis on the live servers, I’m just going crazy lol. They either bite you to death with tail hits or don’t suffer any consequences of being kicked off you by trees…

[grizzled needle]

I think getting bucked off should come with a risk of leg break.

You'e literally digging thick claws into flesh. Being ripped from said body is going to cause a lot of twisting/sheering.

[ornate ermine]

I'm pretty sure the sliding ur describing is a visual glitch on your end from like desync or something. A lot of times the pounced will think they knocked the raptor off, but in reality the raptor jumped off long before u made it to that tree, so it causes the falling off animation on ur end but in reality the raptor jumped off in time and is safe. It takes a looong time to get up as a raptor when u actually r knocked off

OR another buggy thing ive seen as a raptor is u will have let go of the rmb a while ago but dont get to jump off until ur "knocked" off (trapping u onto the side of the dino if they never try to knock u off), but bc u had already tried to jump off theres no falling off animation on the raptors end

[frail bobcat]

@strange spindle deino is actually hard to grow now, which is neat

[cosmic pelican]

Whole point of the nerfs it got was to make its new buff justifyable

[strange spindle]

theres no deino whole waters of map is free to drink

[cosmic pelican]

It literally has 0 bad matchups once grown

[frail bobcat]

deino can drown fg stegos now. it needed somewhat of a nerf

[strange spindle]

i want to grow my sweet deino without pain btw

[frail bobcat]

its a apex, it needs to be difficult to grow

[strange spindle]

alr ima spend my time for it

[quick cargo]

@strange spindle #balance-feedback message i think that was the intetion

[cosmic pelican]

This trick is gonna help u grow immensely: catch a schooling fish and put it onto the shore, wait 5 minutes for it to rot, and enjoy your carb diet.

Lipids you can get from elite fish, and you just canni for s

If you play patient and choose your fights wisely youll be fine

[strange spindle]

i played troodon a lot so it feels like 16hours to grow

[cosmic pelican]

Its "only" 5 with perfect diet

[dusky surge]

then you're playing the wrong animal

[coarse blaze]

I think deino is fine now, I think it's changes in growth were nice but the audio bug and NV might need touched up.

I still hate lunge but I have the same issue with pin but I can confirm that a FG teno can outstam a FG deino, if the water is shallow enough the teno will get away if you, the deino use all your stamina for that lunge.

[scenic quail]

ai spawning should be boosted there very very rare

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message i think maybe a lil buff to bleed against big things...? idk man small things literally dont last a single second but taking down a stego takes like 15 minutes of fighting

[hidden kettle]

ye but then a "nerf" of stegos blood pool would do better than a buff to omnis bleed effect 😄
pounce actually is really strong, just deino/stego got insanely amount of health and blood i guess.
even see how long it takes to kill them or how strong the juvies are is a thing on its own <.<
Deino got its nerf/buffs to a point i would say is pretty good balanced. But steaks still could be looked at while growing. FG fine should be a damn thing but a pack of 5 raps can struggle a lot on even a 40-60% stego like its adult 😄

[leaden remnant]

oh no not deino

you cant hunt a deino by pouncing

the reason why i say a very little bleed buff could be nice is because, considering what raptors hunt, 10+ minutes to bleed it out is a bit excessive imo

you gotta play it calm, slow, etc, but, in my honest opinion, while it shouldn't be so easy, you shouldn't also half of the time kill your prey with raw damage as a bleeder

pounce and bites do raw damage ofc so that's what im mentioning

[hidden kettle]

well chances on a FG deino arent that big under the most conditions i gotta say 😄
well carno bleed out pretty quick same for dilo. but ye i get ya point of haveing for focus on the bleedings itself. sometimes if feels like a pounce to kill by pure force 😄

[golden coral]

@faint timber Biteforce is not related to IRL bite strength, thus it is perfectly fine for deino to have a "weak" bite, and to give rex a far stronger bite. if it's meant to do raw damage. On top of that, deino does have it's "biteforce" in the form of the lunge, that can grab things up to 6T if they're swimming, and 4T if they're standing.

[slim dragon]

@faint timber Ok so

1. The "deino bites harder that rex" theory is dubious at best
2. Biteforce doesn't equal bite damage, compare croc bites and shark bites
3. The game is not trying to be realistic
4. Balance comes first, and deino has plenty enough bite damage already

[faint timber]

I'm confused now, one side says that the game should be realistic and one side says that it should be balanced.

[frail bobcat]

balance matters, realism doesnt

[slim dragon]

The side who says it should be realistic is wrong

If this game was trying to be realistic, then it's doing a very bad job at it

[faint timber]

then you are telling the truth

[golden coral]

It's more so that people probably mean that it should be realistic in that the critters should work, more or less, like how they would irl (and even then, the game is not doing that very well at times). But as an example, deinos are still crocs, they function like a croc in the game. But balance takes precedence over realism, for obvious reasons.

[faint timber]

👍🏻

[dawn falcon]

People went after Carno and shoved it to the ground and now teno is next.

[hallow oracle]

IMO, if in open water, lakes/shoreline, 90% of the time you want to breach all the way to the next shore. I've noticed the animation gets cucked in rivers. Feels like your not moving as fast bc the river floor body blocks the animation. You absolutely want to breach onto shore when escaping. The animation will allow you to instantly sprint off compared to swimming to shore then sprinting off, feels like a stutter just as you get out and before the sprint starts.

[west plank]

@tropic horizon if u wanna give charge damage u have to press left click while in charging.

[wintry mountain]

its a reported issue now

afaik both bites should be letting you execute the damage

SO should hopefully see it fixed in due time

[next hamlet]

Not even talking about situations like exiting the water. I was referencing using the jump consistently, chaining jumps together to travel like beipi was encouraged to do on Spiro. You literally cannot use it as a travel method like you're "supposed to" anymore because it drains stam blisteringly fast for 0 returns.

[shadow vortex]

#balance-feedback message if the attack cooldowns were actually reversed to their previous versions, I would agree… But now, testing the Teno, its attacks are still easily baitable and leave you in vulnerability for ~2,5 seconds. You can’t perform a really fast combo chain anymore, so you def need those additional 10-15% of stamina, imho

[hallow oracle]

I'll lead this response mentioning I am new altogether. I still don't agree. I just traveled on the shoreline from swamp to east lake, pretty sure I did it in 1 if not then definitely no more than 2 Stam bars. When I first discovered the mechanic, it was obvious that's how we're meant to travel distances. We're slower in a straight line, even with the breach, but we're more agile and our stam lasts much longer.

[next hamlet]

Watch any pre-gateway beipi gameplay. Its locomotion got thrashed on gateway. It used to get stam BACK for repeatedly breaching and now it just wastes it tremendously.

[median pagoda]

I miss east isle getting perfect diet and going on my own mission. now there is no food anywhere esecially for carno

[hidden kettle]

well deino is calculated to have up to 3x the biteforce of a rex and even nowadays sharks have more biteforce than crocs (because the need to bite at that water pressure so the bitefore we calc are diffent work down there) but for balance its dumb ye 😄
deino if played well doesnt even need any biteforce at all if you drown your prey 😄
gimme a fg deino with no teeth and a half grown stego in water see who comes back XD
saying that im with ya good points ! 😄

[distant torrent]

this hits home. I’ve been playing teno recently and its attacks have been feeling pretty.. slow and a little bit on the clunky side. definitely easy to bait, and combos are harder to do. nerfing the stam on attacks doesn’t fit into teno’s current state imo and will only make it feel more clunky

I can’t pinpoint what exactly is happening to teno, but I feel like it’s getting ever so slightly more clunky-feeling with each update

[final coral]

Let’s add bone fracture to deinos crushing bite. Just to make the big things coming in the future (rex and spino) Think twice about just trolling a deino. It’s the longest thing to grow in the game

[dusky surge]

rex and spino will be longer

and spino won't just "troll" deino, it is already confirmed to hunt, kill and eat deinos

spino isnt supposed to think twice, it is supposed to make deino flee in terror

[slim dragon]

One part of me feels like spino and deino should have a match-up, instead of being completely one-sided
Another part of me can't wait to see deino poayers get obliterated

[dusky surge]

i think spino should destroy on land for sure, but i think deino, as the most aquatic animal in the game, should at least have an even-ish matchup in the water

like i will stand by the fact that as much as i dont like how OP deino has been since its launch, I still don't want it to be turned to trash-tier fodder, same with how I feel about stego (except in that case it's a lot more hopeless for its future lmao)

[slim dragon]

Yeah deino should stand a chance, even if it's disadvantaged in a fight

[slim dragon]

Well at least deino is stated to be able to flee from spino
Can't say as much for stego

[coarse blaze]

Deino will hurt for sure but I think the chances of it killing a spino would be low ideally, if spino has any sense of the health it had before.

I am genuinely curious how hard spino and rex will be to grow, or how they plan to make trike hard to grow given it's an herbivore.

I assume for trike it'll just have a very, very long grow-time with the majority being weak until adulthood.

Rex I assume will have gnarly hunger drain and spino I have no idea.

[dusky surge]

Spino will likely be SLOW. Bary, sucho, austro, deino will all likely be able to catch it

[coarse blaze]

Slow is what I was thinking but I hope it's not painfully slow. God I hope if it is it keeps it's turn radius advantage.

I'm fine with slow, tank with low DMG but God let it turn then.

[alpine plover]

I'm pretty sure they have given a rough estimate for about 22t's of force using fadeno's information.

[slim dragon]

I'm not sure what 22tons of biteforce means
But afaik it was made by upscaling a croc to the size of deinosuchus and guessing the biteforce
Which is not a quite scientific way of doing it

[hidden kettle]

well same goes for many dinos most is pure calculation from angle and potential musscle. But saltys are pretty close to deinos so numbers on it could be pretty close. deino could have up to ~100kn which is around 2-2.5x waht we expect/calc on Rex. still balance wise im sure they adjust whatever comes to whats there. realisticly yes it got more biteforce than rex but both use their force way different.

[slim dragon]

Most dino biteforce estimates nowadays are made through muscle study, not scaling up an extant animal

[hidden kettle]

ye most is calculated but still i think a croc that times haveing double the biteforce could be pretty possible. The all mighty allo had a bitecore close to modern day lions 😄
img that to balance 😄

#balance-feedback message
well get some audio clue by "Q" underwater is fine if close to it the raising bubbles make some noises. But yea swim underwater should only be able to make noise if close to the surface id say.(since if would move water on surface by momentum)

[median pagoda]

diet for carno is ass im deleting the game right now

[dusky surge]

LMAO

literally got a better diet for this patch