balance-feedback-discussion

[flint locust]

Lil bro im not gonna wish you happy birthday on ur birthday

[hexed tapir]

that's nice

[junior harness]

Even that weight difference still makes me think the deino v. spino fight should be 50/50, it shouldn't be the whole "who ambushed first" thing deciding the entire fight

[flint locust]

Soz lol i am not good with size
I do think isles spino outways deino by a large margin

[junior harness]

Well, not 50/50 if spino is meant to be far stronger, but you still get the point

[flint locust]

Probably a 30/70 if adults
Deinos will decimate sub spinos in the water and likely be extremely dangerous on the edge

[hexed tapir]

at the very least it should be equal it should be way stronger but even getting them to make it tow here the only way it wins is getting the jump will be a task im not willing to try

[golden coral]

Not so sure on it, I don't think it's the weight that will make the difference as much as the fact we have a monster JP spino

[flint locust]

I love mutant crocodile dinosaur with knives for hands and the strength of a rex

[hexed tapir]

if the deino gets it's jaws around it's kneck theres nothing those hands can do

neck

[junior harness]

I mean...

Those massive knife claws say otherwise, I could imagine a good deal of damage if the spino can scratch up the deino's belly or neck while in that sort of hold

[flint locust]

Claw its fleshy neck

[hexed tapir]

it would die far before then

[junior harness]

You're still imagining a realistic spino I think

[hexed tapir]

if it does a death role with it's neck in it's mouth it's done

and they already have that in the game or will have it while you can death role if you have something grabbed

[junior harness]

Maybe smaller things, but a deino trying to do that to a full adult monster spino?

[flint locust]

Yeah for sure
If they finalize the injury system deino may be able to put the arms out of commission
But otherwise I see the spino winning just because its lethal arms

[flint locust]

Exactly
Deino will be the sub spino killer but adult spinos will be a force to be reckoned with

[hexed tapir]

it should be an equal

at the very least

[junior harness]

I can see your reasonings, but I do think deino in this case would have to settle for sub spino if it wants to consistently win in deep water conditions. At least if Isle's spino is gonna be a mutated monster far stronger than its real life counterpart

[hexed tapir]

wont the deino be able to mutate as well

[junior harness]

I meant the mutated monster part as in it's like JP spino, not the mutations system, though I'm sure deino will get that system too

[flint locust]

Sorru if size isnt completely accurate
Deino height is kinda close to rexes knee height

[hexed tapir]

what about an unmutated deino and an unmutated spino

[flint locust]

They dont mutate into beasts....

[hexed tapir]

it should atleast be a 50 50

[flint locust]

Mutations just stat things like
Blood thirsty - gains water while eating flesh

[flint locust]

The isles spinosaurus lore wise is kind of like an amalgamation of things put together, thats why it looks so crocodile like

Deinosuchus in the isle is really close to a very large alligator, thats why it was able to be so close to what actual deino was like

If for some reason they both had every mutation I think spino would still win due to its arsenal of weapons
See above, same reason for unmutated

[hexed tapir]

they should give the deino to deathrole with the spinos head in it's mouth kinda like the pin ability for rex but the lunge grabs the head of the prey instead of grabbing it

[junior harness]

Jesus, I didn't think spino was gonna be that big. If that's the case, I see no way how it'd even be 50/50 for spino v. deino. You'd have to target subs to break even against spino as deino

[flint locust]

Yeah, the isles spino is a straight up beast

[junior harness]

I was thinking spino was maybe a bit shorter than rex, not this monster of a size

[hexed tapir]

if it's that broken how is rex even going to be able to kill it

[flint locust]

there is also official concept art of it flipping over an anky

[junior harness]

Its crushing bite, probably. Spino doesn't look like it can crush exactly, but rex? I wouldn't doubt it can at least have a somewhat even matchup with a spino

[flint locust]

Rex has a crush ability that will cause severe fractures where as spino is mostly bleed and slashes

[hexed tapir]

they should give the deino the ability to grab onto something's head and death role if it's to big to grab

[flint locust]

They might expand on deinos attacks when the bigger apexes come back

[junior harness]

I think the ability to grab and death roll something in general is already going to be done, I don't know if that would be very fair/fun. I certainly don't think, if that chart is accurate enough, that deino would be able to death roll a spino of that size by the head very effectively

[hexed tapir]

i just hope they are making deino so weak for when the apexs come out then they will also make deino as strong as the other 2

[flint locust]

Imo deino is a pretty good "low apex" since it definitely is an apex and can consume other apexes, but things like rex or spino are "high apexes" because they can triumph fairly anything their size, they are the thing that eats deino
Idk if anyone uses these terms but 🤷‍♂️

[hexed tapir]

i wish they would add some reailism to how strong the deino actually was compared to spino to atleast make it a 50 50 i know irl the spino vs deino fight would be 85% chance deino wins in the water

[flint locust]

The spino in the isle is almost the complete opposite of a real spino

[hexed tapir]

i wish they would make the deino unrealistically strong then if they are doing it to spino why not deino

atlesat in the water

in the water it should be the king but on land is where spino should be able to get it

[hexed tapir]

if they can make spino that unrealistic they can surly make deino unrealisticly stronger as well

but they wont

[flint locust]

Why would they lmfao

[hexed tapir]

i wonder if they will ever make a dinosaur game that's 100% realistic

[flint locust]

The deino is a relative of alligators... hence why it looks the most like its counterpart out of the current dinosaurs

[flint locust]

Check out saurian
They tried that and have to update constantly due to the information being constantly updated

[flint locust]

Which led to many delays and an eventual lack of updates

Please keep in mind the isles dinosaurs arent actually dinosaurs
They are creatures produced in a lab

[hexed tapir]

i just wish that in the water soly in deep water the deino has the upper hand and they not make it run like a coward

they can even double the growth time for deino i dont care as long as it's able to kill spino in water

[flint locust]

Its not cowardly to stay alive
Deino is the king as it will be able to throw around bary and fight sucho
It will likely be the spino sub adult killer, keeping the population low

Spino wont be a rocket in the water and will likely use it as a means to escape threats it cant handle

[hexed tapir]

do you think atleast 2 can take on 1 adult spino

it should be the other way around but i feel like the only reason it is because spino wont have the ability to lunge at things and drown them

[flint locust]

If they add the ability for deino to break spinos arms yeah
Kind of guessing here but I believe otherwise spino would drag a deino on land and flip it over, like it did to anky

[hexed tapir]

what if deino got the jump on a spino and ripped one of it's arms off then do you think it would win

[flint locust]

See above

[hexed tapir]

i mean do you think 1 deino could if it ripped it's arm off to start the fight

[flint locust]

If they had to fight
Cause otherwise spino would leave the water and trot away lulw

[flint locust]

Maybe but im now wondering if spino would have the health (weight) to face tank or shove deino around underwater

I did something similar to a utah in the ocean as a teno, I kept pushing in to it and it couldnt turn to bite me

[stark knoll]

Ripping limbs off of living animals is not a planned mechanic

[hexed tapir]

nevermind then

[flint locust]

Did occasionally bite me but iick spino is not something a solo deino wants to pursue

[flint locust]

What about biting them and breaking them temp?

[stark knoll]

We have leg fractures, not sure if arm fractures are planned or if deino will ever cause fractures

[flint locust]

Ahh
In that case spino definitely wins 😂

[hexed tapir]

yea if your going to do deino that bad there's no chance it wins if it gets out weighted out damaged and you cant even bite their little tiny arms off even temperarily

[junior harness]

Tiny?? Those arms looked pretty bulky, deino would have to put a lot of work into breaking those without the spino stopping it from doing so. Even if the deino got the jump, if it's an adult, that's a pretty bad matchup

[hexed tapir]

yea are we forgetting that it had a bite stronger than rex irl

well irl dont really mean much to this developer community

they nailed stegos realistic features

it can bascailly kill anything it runs into

unless you meet a deino player that's god

[stark knoll]

Fairly certain that was debunked

[hexed tapir]

deino would have the jump most of the time

[golden coral]

They... really didn't

[junior harness]

Mostly because the game, while it is trying to be realistic in some matters, the creatures are not fully their real life counterparts. Like JP in a way, they're artificially made or somethin along those lines. If they want spino to be stronger than deino, than as long as it's balanced so that it's not a complete trounce the second spino even spots deino, then that's their plan

[golden coral]

Scorpion jabs, lacking a ton or two in size, halfmelted plates for male detail, can "gallop" somehow, and so on. There's little about stego that's very realistic or accurate to the actual animal.

[hexed tapir]

oh trust me the second it releases im growing a rex and massacuring them

[golden coral]

No idea why you think "power" is the only metric to use, or the only one that matters

If rex can do that, it remains to be seen how that balance goes after all

[junior harness]

Even as a fg rex I'd hesitate going up against a spino like that honestly. With them being that big anyway. Mostly because I'd rather not fight another similarly sized carni if I can get away with it (like any predator tbh), but still. Rex v. spino matchup looks like it'd be fairly 50/50 depending on the playing field

[hexed tapir]

i sware if they make rex not be able to kill spino i might actually go to path of titans

[junior harness]

I mean that would be a bit ridiculous, I'm sure it's a more even fight than deino v. spino in TI terms

[hexed tapir]

i get that they are making rex stronger than deino but they should atleast make deino even with spino i know it will be a 50 foot snow in hell before that day comes around but it's still a hope

[slim dragon]

Can confirm
As always, rex comes out on top
Even nature was a goddamn rex fan

[tiny thicket]

After bunch of playing the omni is quite decent even with 2 sec bite cooldown, gives more room to dodge attacks and also clear some misconception the pounce needs to be hold if latched else if not latched it is a tap pounce.

[zenith sedge]

that's literally impossible lmfao

[golden coral]

@wicked idol Sure, if deino is also one or two shot to the head by the stego

[wicked idol]

I’m fine with it. Honestly if we’re trying to be the “most realistic” Then any headshot with a certain bite force should be one shot for any Dino.

Or extreme damage to the head.

[slim dragon]

Good thing we're not trying to be the most realistic

[wicked idol]

Isn’t that the whole spiel of the isle?

[stark knoll]

No

You're thinking of Saurian

[wicked idol]

Ahh ok. I’ll leave u guys to it then.

[quasi flare]

So lines for Carno and Omni...how come they don't get goat but Dilo and Cera does? Is there something about Omni and Carno design that deemed them much stronger than Dilo and Cera and the latter two need a boost in the early stages of their growth?

Edit: forgot Herrera and PT gets goat too. There’s gotta be a reason Omni and Carno are intentionally left out of this loop yeah? Deino I get has a diet largely consisting of mostly just playables.

[dusky surge]

@bleak vortex cerato makes up for lower biteforce with its powerful charged bite and very quick biterate, allowing it to out-DPS carno, who has a slow bite. The lower bite force and higher biterate also help it with bacteria application, which is its main gimmick.

Also, a compact jaw like carnos could easily be carrying some hefty force, not all jaws need to be massive to be powerful.

[bleak vortex]

Multiple paleological studies, even recent ones, have pointed strong evidence to Carno having a comparatively weak bite. Even biologically, the apex of force in the jaw directly correlates to how large the central axis of the jaw is, the mass of the neck muscle, and the mass of the cheek muscle on an animal, all three of which Carno lacks. An upturned jaw, a relatively smaller upper neck ridge, smaller facial structure, much smaller cheekbones, and a big lack of larger, thicker teeth to better spread that force

Ceratosaurus, even the model we have, has a heavier lower jaw, an apex range sitting in the middle of its jaw, large, evenly spread teeth to distribute mass effectively, a much larger neck ridge, larger cheek bones, and a much denser facial bone structure to support some monstrous face and neck muscle

[dusky surge]

Now, here's the thing. And I know this is a copout, but it's an important note to be made, the game is not made to be realistic, and often sacrifices realism for balance or gameplay.

In the case of cerato, it's designed more to be a "rapidfire" bite, so it can apply the bacteria faster. The tradeoff is needing to reduce the cera's damage to prevent it from just nuking things, rather than actually relying on the whole "making them sick so they go away" thing. They were aware it had low damage for a cerato, which is why they added the charged bite to provide that hefty chomp worthy of cerato.

Think of the base bite as a jab, and the charged bite as a haymaker, putting in 100% of its strength.

Hell, if we wanna talk realism, carno's entire neck would be obliterated and shattered by its charge, as would pachy

[bleak vortex]

Well, the structure of the neck bones are dense abd large. Neck meat also dampens that blow pretty heavily. Pachy does have a pretty skinny neck tho

I dunno. M2 just seems so goofily telegraphed that it's difficult to land. Maybe that's my Tekken brain having an aneurysm

[dusky surge]

it is telegraphed, that's the point, because it does crazy good damage and bacteria application

cerato also has a much higher bleed output than carnotaurus

[bleak vortex]

Really? That's...kinda the point of Carno's razor-like teeth...

Paleobrain is dying

[dusky surge]

do not bring paleobrain to The Isle

it's not as bad as BoB but it chooses semi-realistic design

taking ideas from the real animal, but changing things to make it fun/unique/balanced

[bleak vortex]

BoB?

[dusky surge]

Beasts of Bermuda

the game where the rainbow mosasaurus launches itself out of the ocean at mach speed to grab a t-rex and drag it into a watery doom

oh and pterosaurs pick up adult sauropods and drop them

[bleak vortex]

Huh

Seems like Jurassic World Rainbow Friends

[dusky surge]

but tbh i would not bother getting caught up with paleo-accuracy with The Isle lol, otherwise you'll die on spino's release

[bleak vortex]

Don't get me started bro. I already wanna die. Hypospino's hunchback posture and sailtail are more accurate than the JP3 imposter

[dusky surge]

Technically, if we wanna talk accuracy (albeit not paleo), it's hyper spino, not hypo

but for reference, here is regular spino vs regular rex. This isn't even the hyper version

[viscid schooner]

Oh I didn't expect them to actually make spino bigger than rex. Wasn't spino actually larger realistically?

[quasi flare]

@dusky surge I’m open to the criticism/disagreement, why do you believe carno and Omni shouldn’t get goat when every other carnivore playable has at least one ai source of lines?

[dusky surge]

i dislike the idea of large playables having the ability to get perfect diets exclusively off AI

[quasi flare]

So as opposed to just Omni/Carno you believe that Cera, Dilo and Deino should all have their ai sources of lines removed instead?

[dusky surge]

no

it's not specifically targeted at lines

it's targeted at being able to get a perfect diet from exclusively AI

deino doesn't have an AI option for carbs, for instance

[quasi flare]

So you think boar, deer, goat etc should all be removed? Essentially be more in line with Dieno’s diet which is largely just playables (exception of fish or course)

[dusky surge]

dilo i think needs to have less AI but that's a different topic

kinda? but not really

again, perfect diet, not a diet

[quasi flare]

I’m kind of confused by that though, can you clarify? I’m getting you think large playables shouldn’t have access to perfect diet via ai but how do achieve this without removing all three ai animals from diets?

[dusky surge]

perfect diet = getting one of each nutrient

[quasi flare]

Right, but your position is that this shouldn’t be obtainable via ai for large playables?

If this is correct, how do you achieve this without outright removing all three animals from diets?

[dusky surge]

why does it have to be all three

[quasi flare]

I’m not saying it has to be all three. My question is why do most of the carnivores get it while these two don’t? I.e what makes them so special over the others that them omitting goat/line ai is warranted?

[dusky surge]

cera doesn't

deino doesn't

ptera is entirely AI oriented so it makes sense
troodon is tiny and designed to scramble around AI
dilo... i honestly dont know why
herrera is tiny and opportunistic

[quasi flare]

Deino gets elite catfish and frogs. Via a bug (I think unless intentional) they get dots from rotting school fish. (But IMO this is the one dino that I have never been able to keep a PD on since what comes to the watering hole is totally RNG based)

I thought cera got boar but it seems I’m mistaken and they just get deer and goat. They do however get dots from other ceras, a playable that is commonly seen. I’ll take finding ceras over finding galli/dryo anyday. In addition, every corpse provides 2 lungs but only 1 intestines which means dots are significantly easier to come by even without boar on the diet.

I agree 1000% with you PT and Troo need to rely on ai more being what they are.

Dilo and herra are both also questionable for why they get all 3 from ai considering they have no problem killing smaller playables up to fg Dilo size. (700kg)

So ultimately Carno and Omni are the ones who are more likely to be forced to grow with a 2:1 diet.

[dusky surge]

Juvi herrera is REALLY bad at doing anything, the AI makes sense on it

Also deino's frogs barely count

Frogs do nothing for a deino's food or nutrition

[quasi flare]

I agree Juvie herras are not great at killing things but neither are juvie omnis. You can pounce a deer, pour 100% of your stam into the pounce and the Deer will still live and run away.

Yes, deinos don’t get enough for it to matter but nonetheless they still do get it.

[obtuse bison]

yall fr hate deinos

[dusky surge]

its a giant gator. They are not renowned for their stamina

[obtuse bison]

4 alt bites intill ur stam goes

they may not be renowned for their stam but that doesnt mean there stam has to be that trash

[dusky surge]

and you can still alt-bite even without stamina

[obtuse bison]

what

[quasi flare]

Deinos can still alt bite with 0 stam so it’s not a big setback for them. They’re not meant to be doing a lot of running around on land. Their z walk is actually not bad at all compared to their trot so they are surprisingly stamina efficient on land as long as you’re straight up not sprinting for more than a few seconds.

[obtuse bison]

main problem is the stam regen tbh

[dusky surge]

again, giant gator

[obtuse bison]

i gotta spend like 5 minutes in water to get my stam back up

[quasi flare]

Your large HP pool is the trade off for the bad mobility. Other than a stego or other deino nothing else is gonna threaten you enough to need to sprint

[obtuse bison]

pretty sure giant gators would still have pretty good stam since they can drag down a 15 ish ton trex down to the bottom of a river.

(in real life)

(i aint no palaeontologist)

[obtuse bison]

mobility is fine its just the stam regen is awfull.

i cant even bask for faster stam regen anymore.

[viscid schooner]

People can argue for deino love when spino gets added to humble them

[quasi flare]

It’s a balance decision would be my guess. If you gave the tankiest thing in the game the ability to sprint often as well as being able to one tap anything up to 500KG and also drown things in the water when they come to drink, you’d have a pretty OP dino. Their mobility is the only weakness they have and even then, they aren’t really dying for it. Just being limited from being too oppressive.

[dusky surge]

that's kinda ridiculously fast given that most animals regen stam while standing

[obtuse bison]

wha

i am pretty sure carnos aint got a slower stam regen time then deinos or utahs or pretty much anything else in the game.

i aint even sure it is 5 minutes its prob longer

[dusky surge]

It's the same standing regen time as other creatures

[obtuse bison]

in the water

[dusky surge]

actually, that means deino has a better stam regen than like... all creatures

[obtuse bison]

not standing

i aint even sure deinos regen when standing

[dusky surge]

because no other creature can regen stamina from 0-100 while moving but deino

[obtuse bison]

i would rather have faster regen when basking then getting 1+ stam every 10 seconds

[dusky surge]

you do

you have to actually rest for a while to get full regen speed

[obtuse bison]

how long

[dusky surge]

a while idk exact numbers

[obtuse bison]

intill full regen then how long intill my stam is full

atleast give us faster basking time aligators bask for a reason

[quasi flare]

The only thing Deinos actually need stam for is drowning things. They can bite and do pretty much everything they need to do with little to no stam.

[obtuse bison]

and the deino is based off the american aligator#

[dusky surge]

they also bask for hours at a time

[obtuse bison]

which is what in game time

[dusky surge]

deino is designed to have extremely long rest times

[obtuse bison]

cas i am pretty sure aligators cant grow fully in 6 hours

[quasi flare]

Roughly 3-4 RL seconds per in game minute during the day and roughly 1-2 RL seconds per in game minute at night. So they’re really not all that different from carnos or any other land dino that has exhausted itself to 0 stam.

[stark knoll]

It's based off of the deinosuchus

[obtuse bison]

deino evolved into the american aligator

[quasi flare]

They do if you’re at the appropriate percentages I.E above 60 you can trot, 40 you can z walk and IIRC that would mean you could stand on land from 20-39 and regen stam. But that would be a bad idea considering you dry out quickly. This is why it’s best to never drop below 40 and just z walk. At least that’s how I’ve played deinos. if I’m mistaken someone correct me so I can learn lol

[slim dragon]

Haha
No

[obtuse bison]

[quasi flare]

@distant torrent would love to hear why you disagree that Omni and carno shouldn’t receive an ai source of lines when every other carnivore does. Is it related to the two species specifically or something else about diets altogether?

[unborn iris]

I would argue no carnivore that is able and balanced around hunting other dinos should be able to get perfect diet from just AI.

[distant torrent]

I’d personally just prefer if larger playables such as carnos and the like (not entirely sure about omni yet. still on the fence about it) only get food and not nutrients from ai, and smaller playables such as troodon being able to get nutrients from those said ai

[unborn iris]

AI should be good for growing and supplementing diet later on if desperate.. shouldn't be able to just survive off them indefinitely, and definitely shouldn't be able to thrive with perfect diet.

[distant torrent]

though I do think organ values should give a lot more nutrients

[unborn iris]

Agreed.

They tuned it down pretty low at the moment.

It was too much before.. now it's almost nothing.

[distant torrent]

yea that needs to be changed lol

[quasi flare]

Im not so hung up on perfect diet itself as I am on obtaining lines specifically. It’s significantly harder to get without an ai source since every corpse gives 2 lungs to 1 intestines. In addition because dots are significantly easier to obtain, most stomachs are more likely to have dots or S over lines.

So I feel the species without lines from ai have to struggle a bit more.

Also the playables that give lines are also significantly more rare.

[distant torrent]

bettering organ values will make it far more manageable

[quasi flare]

I agree, and if they made that change it might be a bit more forgivable but ultimately those two species would still have more of an uphill battle than the other species.

I’ve been trying to come up with reasons this might be a thing. For example could chuffing mean more ceras die in childhood which means they need a better boost? That seems plausible to me. But at the same time, while applicable when comparing carno to cera, this doesn’t explain Omni who while having the ability to hide easier than the others as a juvie, still cannot actually kill reliably to obtain those line nutrients. I guess thats me zeroing in on ceras getting goat recently though as Dilo and herra also gets the lines.

[grand grail]

I love killing three adult dilos as an adult cera and all their combined organs didn't activate a single nutrient slot lol

[odd pebble]

<@&933486433342222376>

[plush cove]

@alpine plover Hardly disagree on the troodon part. Troodon should never ever be punished for failing a pounce.

I dont know if you wanted to say "its not fair omni and troodon will not get punished" or "its not fair Pachy gets punished". I hope you mean the 2nd one, dont punish troodon for failing a pounce.

Troodon pounces fail 90% of times because of the aiming being so ... .
Additionally troodon is basically one shot by everything. Give troodon a stun after each pounce and no one will play it anymore because it will be straight up instantly dead whenever a pounce fails. Not that anyone would play one for more than annoying other players. Even more frustrating if you keep the Growing time in mind.

If anything, improve troodon pouncing because the aiming for it is horrible.

[knotty locust]

Am I the only one who thinks teno vs cerato situation should be changed, since in this setup the teno is the one hunting the cera, without the cera having any way of protecting himself?

[plush sphinx]

ptera feels like it is designed to starve to death. NV is so bad you cant move at night at all, and if a storm hits at dawn you will starve guaranteed. It is an incredibly unsatisfying game loop. there needs to be a reliable food source that a ptera can find in the dark.

[quasi flare]

I don’t think Petra is bad anymore tbh on the food/diet front.

A single frog for instance will fill your entire S hex if I’m not mistaken. Fish were terrible before but since they fixed it we need considerably less, and since we can swallow while wall clinging, it’s very easy to be stamina efficient while fishing. Lines are the riskiest thing for us to get because we have to be on the ground for an extended period of time to eat the goat, but even then we can actually kill goats pretty quickly despite our low bite force and even keep up with them while sprinting on the ground if the player is not experienced enough to be consistent with fly by pecks.

The only complaint I have on PT is their stam regen and even then I think they’ve actually done a pretty good job with the last update of having us use less stam for takeoff.

I’m getting a little away from your complaint on the dark but even that is more of an overall isle problem, not a PT problem. Our problem is no different than that of Cera, Stego or any other dino that has poor NV compared to the rest of the cast.

In fact, due to the fact that we basically can’t be killed if we manage our stamina and fly correctly (I.E not crashing & not ascending or holding shift a lot) I think it’s a fair expectation that PT is supposed to make sure it has filled its water and food before nightfall. Doing so ensures we survive through the night and the extended water/hunger timers helps this.

Sorry for the long reply. Don’t mean to be super contrarian, but I just think PT is in a much better place than it was pre-patch.

[quasi flare]

Agreed. I think Teno overall is a bit overtuned right now.

[torn egret]

I think cera v teno is balanced 1v1, but you rarely see a solo teno.
I think a stam nerf for their kicks and slams needs to be added. Or a slight cooldown at least.

But the biggest problem I have is each fight is designed to be to the death every time. There is no reason or chance to escape because of the way fighting works rn, with everything being damage related.
I know it’s a lot of work to implement, but I think herbivores should do less damage, but more status ailments.
Pachy has fracture and fracture is awesome, but it’s too strong because it not only prevents the carnivore from effectively killing, but makes them an easy kill.
I’ve been an unlucky cera, carno, even teno, that got his fade run while resting and minding my business.
Anyways,
The fracture is designed to let a pachy run from a fight, but is being abused now for PvP imo.
Same with teno kick and slam. Herbivores have a higher dpm potential than the carnivores do.
I’d like to see more fights with escape in mind for herbivores, (or at least deterrence like stego tail, fracture for pachy, and kick/slam for teno)
And let carnivores focus on hunting more than fighting.
Not sure how well I explained my idea lol, but hopefully my point comes across.
Herbivores should STILL be hard to kill, but they can’t have the crazy kill potential they have now.

[halcyon elk]

Imo I think pachy main thing is that it's supposed to be something you gotta very much think about how to attack it before doing so, though tbh I do agree it does have insane kill potential for things like cerato and carno

[quasi flare]

I agree with this but feel it’s hard to fix this because the core issue is that it is a human piloting the animal, not a dinosaur. The herbivore players get bored as easily as a carnivore player who hasn’t seen action in awhile and killing is typically how you fix that in this game until they implement more things to do in down time.

I saw a video recently where the author suggested that it’s good herbivores win in a straight 1 on 1 most of the time because it’s what they’re designed to do.

What carnivores are supposed to be good at is ambushing and that’s what gives them the edge to kill an otherwise stronger enemy. For example, a Teno IMO is stronger than a carno in a head on 1v1. But give the carno a chance to Ram and knockdown the Teno to open the fight up and suddenly it’s the Teno who is on the wrong end of the encounter.

The issue is just that ambushing is not very efficient for most things except deino and that’s largely due to the Deino not having any tells before it ambushes. Imagine how useless they’d be if they made growls or if the water rippled BEFORE they came in for a lunge.

For the other carnivores a big part of why they can’t ambush very well is how noisy everything is. When you can hear a carno grunt pre-Ram or herra latching you are more likely to be ready for a fight or flight scenario and that’s where the herbivores strengths are. So the solution without making herbis worse, is to make ambushes better so carnivores can successfully get those openings that will let them win an otherwise lopsided matchup. This also puts more of an emphasis on player skill since it’s on the carnivore player to get in without being spotted and the herbivore’s fault if they aren’t paying enough attention.

The camera changes are supposed to help with the ambushes but I believe the issues are the noise. Even with camera changes, the audio will give away the carnivores approach and give the herbivore the same chances they’d get with the current camera.

[halcyon elk]

If you fail hunting a pachy you should be punished with something getting broken, but pachy should be more "bonk and get away" for things like cera and carno.

[golden coral]

The problem is also that we as humans know the other guy can and might come back, so kill confirming is the only way to be safe. Which means the concept of "break and run" is less effective than "break and kill" and so on. Pachys are menaces, yes, but there's reason behind that.

And honestly, no the issue with ambushing has nothing to do with tells, but how close you are and if you can attack at point blank when those tells happen. It doesn't matter if carno makes a noise when charging, if it's already right there. Deino could make a noise when/right before it lunges, even have water ripple, wouldn't make a difference at all. Because by the time it does that, the lunge is already hitting you and you won't be able to react in time. Omni can ambush perfectly fine, despite making a noise when pouncing, because it can pounce very close, so by the time you hear any noise or see it, it's too late to react. And carno struggles because it's not an ambusher, it doesn't play as one very well, and the charge isn't designed for it. But pachy, omni, deino and so on can ambush quite well. Even teno and stego can, it's not a matter of making noise or being seen, it's entirely a matter of being close enough when you attack that the target have no chance to react.

[quasi flare]

Agree 1000% on the guy coming back, that’s definitely another reason to kill them quick.

On the ambush I disagree on the carno part. The way carnos are rn you have to begin your charge and hold it for quite a bit to get the knockdown effect. You’ll get the damage, but what the carno wants in an opening against a Teno is a knockdown so you can get free bites in to the head. But the grunt is incredibly loud and begins the moment you hold RMB. So anyone listening will hear the grunt somewhere around 3ish seconds before you’re even on them. If a Dieno had a tell 3ish seconds before they came out of the water, that is more than enough time for even something like a Dilo/carno (bad turn) to get out of there. While I agree on Omni being mostly fine, I think Carnos are absolutely made for being ambush predators. The Ram feels like it’s specifically designed to open fights up and the stamina drain required to score a knockdown from it has me thinking it’s definitely made to get the drop on prey and end encounters quickly with it.

[golden coral]

I know how the charge works, that was my point. It's terribly designed for ambush and makes carno bad at ambushing. But the issue isn't the noise, or the visibility itself, the issue is the amount of time you have to be visible/making noise before your attack happens.

Carnos aren't made for ambush, because of how the charge works. Ambush require a point blank, or near point blank, attack ability. Charge kind of has it, if you only go for damage, but if you want the knockdown, it doesn't work.

And yes, if a deino had a 3 second between the noise/ripples, and the lunge actually happening, it wouldn't work. But it could make a noise/have ripples, and a .5 second between that and the attack, and most would not be able to react in time. Though some might, and that could be an interesting aspect of it to be honest.

But people confuse the problem, it's not a sound/visibility issue, it's a "delay" issue, between you letting the target know you're there, and your attack impacting the target

[torn egret]

100% agree.
Think someone else said the same thing too, but people don’t play like Dino’s. But the risk and reward of this game is rough.
Carnivores are more “fun” because scary teeth and roar amiright, but herbivores don’t have any purpose besides get attacked. And that’s why herbivores are so strong combat wise, because in a game where killing is the only thing to do, why reward or make escape and avoiding fights a thing?

[onyx garden]

I think the core of issues is there isn't much else to do.
Sit there and get a perfect diet and grow.
And kill and survive.
There should be more content to do rather then nerf and buff dinosaurs.
Could do simple fun things like change the environment around you to fit, and wouldn't it be fun to see what another dinosaurs did to an area? Sparring is a great idea for the Diablos right ? Why not add that mechanic as well for other species, I know dinosaurs would show off their little arm wiggles to be a more attractive mate, maybe give incentives for it too.
I think adding content instead of banalcing should be the focus, they have great ideas but finish them and set them up would be ideal

[crude patrol]

they hate anything that has to with carnivores

[dusky surge]

where are you getting that from lol

[daring spindle]

I think it may have been a joke

[crude patrol]

no im being serious

i go tthat from looking at suggestions ive been a full groun cera and carno hard to find herbs when i do get jumped by pachys since pachys is garunteed to break legs or head cant do anything as a cera as a carno cant find anyone or when i do i get out ran

[dusky surge]

okay so WE hate carnivores because YOU get jumped by pachies?

[crude patrol]

no the fact that every suggestion to nerf pachys or make it easier to find diets gets shot down

[dusky surge]

because pachy doesn't need a nerf, and carni diets are honestly not that hard with organs

[crude patrol]

oh so its fun smashing into a target and automaticly braking a leg

[dusky surge]

i mean... yea, that's why people play pachy

[crude patrol]

ok bet so dont play anything else thats not meta

[dusky surge]

not remotely what i said, and pachy being "meta" is really funny to me

[crude patrol]

it is when you have a group of four

[dusky surge]

anything is good when in a group of four lmao

[crude patrol]

what im saying roaming by yourself have difficulty with just one pachy

any dino is good standing alone but since pachy is only like what an hour long grow theres always a group of them

[daring spindle]

@minor zealot lighting and weather adjustments in that direction are being worked on currently iirc

[minor zealot]

thats good to hear

[daring spindle]

Yep

[grand grail]

Anyone know if leg fracture changes your turn speed? Or does it just cap your max speed

[keen plover]

Seems to only cap speed

[olive zinc]

I bet this will last for about half an update before they throw in bihourly hurricanes to make the game more challenging, and then when people complain a certain dev will tell them it's a skill issue while he streams from his admin sandbox server

[halcyon elk]

They said they're reducing the amount of bad storms dude

[dusky surge]

Love the completely inaccurate reasoning for why he does things because you're mad over a stream that was WIP then and WIP now

[dusky surge]

@wet holly Playing an 8 ton gator then being surprised when most of the experience is sitting there and waiting for things to come to you is bizarre to me. It's a gator. That's how they hunt.

[wet holly]

The playstyle would be viable if people werent so risk adverse and there was more dinos and therfor a higher chance someone would actually come by a given lake or river

The only thing that ever comes around are Pteras

which have zero nutritional value for Deinos and catching them relies on them making a mistake

Also, aligators and crocodiles of all species are known to migrate when food is scarce in a given area

[dusky surge]

And you absolutely can migrate

[wet holly]

This is well documented, so if you wanna make the argument of "well thats how they hunt irl" you need to remember that they can also move

But current map design discourages movement

[dusky surge]

I disagree

[wet holly]

You're objectively wrong :)

[dusky surge]

I played deino and moved frequently

I moved slowly, but I moved

Deino has a generous hunger time and fish to consume on its path

As well as the ability to eat rot or bones that may be near the waters edge

Objectively speaking, I felt more encouraged to move on this map than I ever did on Spiro

[wet holly]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[keen plover]

tbf its a pretty bad time as deino. Without fish (which gives way too much food for a deino) it would probably be starving sim

Also you can pretty much never get a balanced diet

[wet holly]

Getting perfect diet is really hard if you dont wanna cannibalize yeah

and cannibalism is cringe so

[keen plover]

I mean why wouldn't you? Readily available food?

[dusky surge]

That's more on the fact that deino gameplay is currently "which is the ONLY deinosuchus who gets all the food from east plains, and who are the rest who starve"

Which is more on the fact that east plains is where everything is

[wet holly]

Would be nice if Pteras provided nutrition cause they are the only thing that comes around

[dusky surge]

They used to. IDK why they disabled that

[halcyon elk]

If I play deino and I see small juvies and I'm hungry enough I will nom them.

[keen plover]

I mean even if they did they give like nothing lol

[wet holly]

Much more beneficial to team up, especially when AU servers have a bunch of zergs mixpacking and going on rampages

[keen plover]

45kg for a 8000kg creature would probably be 1 minute of diets

[wet holly]

Especially at this time of the night, lotta chinese zerg clans come online around this time

[keen plover]

Fair

[halcyon elk]

Then again my experience is much different, I play on unoffficials.

[dusky surge]

You aussie?

[keen plover]

I forgot about the playerbase for a second lol

AU is hell

[wet holly]

🇦🇺

yup :)

[dusky surge]

AU is bizarre

Just the other day I ended up in a chinese mixpack between a dilo and cera

[wet holly]

Chinese Isle players are something else

[halcyon elk]

Both irl and in game.

[dusky surge]

But frankly they were so pleasant and harmless I just allowed the cera to follow along. It ate organs and their dilo friend spoke highly of how beautiful their cera friend was in real life and it was frankly wonderful

[wet holly]

The gravity harnesses arent that weird mmkay?

[halcyon elk]

Non toxic mixpacking??? How the hell was that possible?

[dusky surge]

IDK they were just chill like that

[wet holly]

Rare non-tryhard mixpack

[halcyon elk]

Nah I mean the kangaroos that are suspiciously good at drowning things.

[dusky surge]

Legit they just had a friend who they wanted to tag along and they found us food and the dilo just spoke so kindly I would feel like the ass if I killed them

[halcyon elk]

Dear God they're being polite

They can be reasoned with

[dusky surge]

I once mixpacked with a friend who was playing carno as I was cera. All we did was walk around, find food with my scent, scavenge it. I 1v1ed another cerato and my carno friend stood WAY back and just watched the fight as to not make it unfair.

[halcyon elk]

There are very rare circumstances where mixpacking is harmless to people, just don't do it while hunting.

[dusky surge]

We also walked past a group of ceratos in the highlands who acted like a bunch of rednecks who said "we don't much care for YOUR kind around these parts" when he saw my carno friend so we left as to not make any trouble and went back to eating corpses

[halcyon elk]

Could've just said that we don't hunt together we just vibing.

[dusky surge]

Mixpacking is fun if you aren't doing it because you're bad

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/penninsula-open-space-trust-post-coyote-and-badger-coyote-badger-gif-16267305

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message another day, another teno nerf suggestion

also another suggestion to make the small game hunter better at hunting large game about its own size and to make the scavenger a better hunter

[vital summit]

i play teno allot and i dont think teno are Op, compare to the dilo, ive goten beaten by dilos raptors, ceras, carnos at times and even beat them too, it all depends on HOW you play the teno

[grand grail]

#balance-feedback message People are against this why exactly??

[vital summit]

my gues it can maybe outrun deinos?, but not sure they would, i feel like teno are good swimers as they are atm, my opinion since i play them allot

[noble shore]

if teno needs anything at the moment is a nice juicy nerf.

[peak seal]

Honestly it really depends on the skill of the player, me and a couple raptors took out 7 tenos in south plains like 2 days ago

But a good teno is super hard to kill

[noble shore]

thinking of balance means thinking about being same skill, these arguments of what individual skill can achieve mean nothing

[peak seal]

If that's the case omni needs a nice buff thrn

Then. Still waiting for pounce to pin mechanic l...

[noble shore]

ofc he needs, omni carno and troodon are pathetic atm

[peak seal]

Troo being able to pounce from most directions would definitely help them out a lot

[noble shore]

yes, and the rework of his ability that is already being worked on maybe can save it

[peak seal]

I love playing troo but it's a bit aggravating to have a 1h10 min growth time to die to some bs because the pounce didn't latch

[noble shore]

yes i can feel that, also falling through the map after a dismount from pounce is not the best thing as well

[peak seal]

Oh god that's so irritating as well

[keen plover]

What type of nerf?

[unborn iris]

I feel like the attacks don't use enough stamina, personally.

But just a little bump up wouldn't hurt that much.

None of the current carnivores are really meant to have an easy time with teno, is part of the problem people have, I think. It's in a good spot for the most part.

[keen plover]

Yeah agreed. Apart from that its great

[keen plover]

This especially. Like Teno starts to lose in the 1 v 2 but is generally safe in the 1 v 1

2 good ceras / carnos will fold you

[marsh hollow]

So when is pachy nerf coming? or is it gonns stay as an apex dino untill Trex comes??!!??

[tropic horizon]

Pachies just fine

[marsh hollow]

No. pachy way to much hp and dmg

[tropic horizon]

Pachy dies in like 3 bites to carno and cera I think it’s okay

[marsh hollow]

Raptors and dilos and everythign smaller has no chance against a pachy its insane

[tropic horizon]

And it’s damage is pretty low but okay

[marsh hollow]

Ye ofc a cera and carno no shizzle sherlock

[tropic horizon]

Two raptors can kill a pachy with no issue if one of them hangs on because a raptor pouncing a pachy disables all of its attacks, if a dilo bites it twice it can spam hallucinations till it dies

Sure if you mess up you die but that’s fine

[marsh hollow]

nope it does not

ive played dilo and raptors alot of times, its impossible to 1vs1 pachy

[tropic horizon]

It does that’s exactly how it works but okay dude

[marsh hollow]

imagine not being able to 1v1 sometimes which is the same size or smaller

[tropic horizon]

The animal designed to bully small tiers bullies small tiers

[dusky surge]

both of those things are low on pachy lmao, bizarre you picked them

[tropic horizon]

Idek why im saying anything really

No point in arguing anything

[marsh hollow]

Have you looked at the offical stats i dont think u have

[dusky surge]

i have

[marsh hollow]

pachy has insane high hp and dmg output

[tropic horizon]

500 hp 100 damage

[dusky surge]

pachy has 500HP
omni has 450HP

[tropic horizon]

Misinformation is funny

[dusky surge]

dilo has 700HP

dilo is actually MUCH tankier than pachy

[marsh hollow]

yes and still dilo cant 1v1 pachy

[dusky surge]

good.

[marsh hollow]

pachy can basiaclly 1v1 eveything and raptor/dilo/galli/ need groups to kill 1 pachy

its quite embarrasing

[dusky surge]

pachy has stuns and fractures. That's why it beats dilo. It is also SPECIFICALLY designed to be strong against creatures less than 1 ton, and struggle against larger creatures. Which it does. Carnos are by far the biggest threat to a pachy

[dusky surge]

if you're getting 1v1ed by pachy as carno or cera

lol

[marsh hollow]

I dont agree, pachy need 1 headbut against everything, and if the legs are broken is done

[tropic horizon]

It’s almost like it should bully small tiers or something

[tropic horizon]

No?

[marsh hollow]

That doesnt make sense, why does it need to bully somethign tf

thats weird gameplay

[dusky surge]

cerato is a bully

that ain't weird, that's how it is

[tropic horizon]

That’s how it’s designed

[marsh hollow]

ye and its design is unbalanced and embarrasing

breaks bones of every dino way to easy. pachy is strongest dino in the game which makes no sense

[dusky surge]

pachy absolutely is not the strongest dino lol

[marsh hollow]

i have 1v1. fullgrown cera/carno/dilo literally everything

why@!??! because i break legs in 1 hit and its over

it makes no sense bones break that fast

[dusky surge]

that's just embarressing if you're dying as a cera or carno to a pachy lmao

[tropic horizon]

You were fighting lobotomites

[marsh hollow]

nope, because pachy is insane dmg and bones break too fast

[tropic horizon]

Like genuinely, you were fighting some really bad players if they are getting 1v1ed by a pachy

[dusky surge]

you say that as if it's true, but pachy's fully charged ram does barely more damage than a dilo's bite. An uncharged ram does less damage than a dilo bite

[marsh hollow]

nope not really. pachy is way too strong

i can 1v2 u guys with 2 fingers in my nose

[tropic horizon]

What do you want from pachy

[marsh hollow]

less hp like raptor

[dusky surge]

it has like, the same HP as raptor lol

it is BARELY higher

[marsh hollow]

it has way more hp then raptor

[tropic horizon]

Oh so it gets pinned by raptor, yeah no

[dusky surge]

it has 50HP more

[marsh hollow]

ye and 50 hp is enough to be unbalanced

[dusky surge]

it takes ONE more bite for a raptor to kill a pachy rather than another raptor

[tropic horizon]

Two raptors can kill a solo pachy without having to think since holding rmb disables Pachy’s ram and alt swing so you can pounce it while the other bites it to death

[marsh hollow]

there is no counterplay to pachy, he headbuts you from the back or front. instant bones break and u jsut lose

[dusky surge]

there is counterplay. i suppose you just can't do it lol

[marsh hollow]

lol u have not played raptor huh

[tropic horizon]

Dodging is counterplay, or something

[tropic horizon]

I literally mained it for weeks what are you on💀

[dusky surge]

pachy is MUCH slower than raptor and dilo. Like it is ridiculously slow

[marsh hollow]

dodging while bones are broken by the first hit sure buddy

[dusky surge]

don't get hit. You easily outrun pachy

[tropic horizon]

Don’t get hit then

[marsh hollow]

and how many pachys did u kill?

[tropic horizon]

If you get hit that’s on you

[tropic horizon]

Several, I don’t write this down on a chart or some crap like that

[dusky surge]

he said a slur

[tropic horizon]

That’s hilarious

[dusky surge]

lmao

i can tell because it got autodeleted and he's now muted

[tropic horizon]

When all else fails, result to gamer words

[dusky surge]

guarantee you it was something beginning with r

god its always nice when a story has a funny ending

[tropic horizon]

“The tale of the skill issue”

[dusky surge]

oh it was something beginning with r, but not the one i was thinking. Somehow it was worse actually

[tropic horizon]

Oh wow

[dusky surge]

he appears to be threatening a heinous crime upon me

heavens

[tropic horizon]

over pachy balance

[drowsy thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-crazy-shocked-surprised-flames-gif-16577214

[keen plover]

Pachys ram and dilos alt bite are the same damage. (125n). Pachy’s alt attack is 75n and so is the tap ram.

What makes pachy ‘strong’ is the fractures lol

[noble shore]

pachy doesnt even need to have damage, it only needs to be around 1 teno or 1 stego. Fracturing the legs is just guarantee k.o. for anything that dares to attack

maybe leaving pachy as it is and making the diet buff from 10% to 20% resistance to fractures would make things more interesting

also keep in mind there are so weird hitboxes, like raming the tip of the tail of dilos its guarantee leg fracture for some reason

[flint locust]

I'm seriously not seeing the issue. Pachy is great at what it does and doesn't need any nerfs! Choose your fights

[hasty coyote]

mixpacking is a separate issue, it shouldnt dictate balance. Otherwise you essentially force a dino to mixpack or be unviable.

@analog mirage My main issue with that is without the launch, it makes it too hard to hit targets, since you essentially reduce the hitbox drastically. Then you essentially give it the fracture-stun rule (which imo should just be tied to fractures in general) which makes it better at dealing with larger threats. So what you have done is just nerfed it against smaller targets and made it better against larger targets, neither of which need to be done imo.

Currently, I think its fine against the small tiers. Omni is getting tail pouncing back (which is a huge buff against pachies) and dilo is fine against pachy: pachy hard counters it but if a dilo gets its hallucinations it just kinda wins. However, pachy's issue is the larger dinos, who it struggles against solo, but in a group they can just beat anything to death.

Personally, what pachy really needs is a rebalance on fractures:

head fracture: stays the same
Body fracture: no longer disables certain attacks (teno tail slam), and instead makes attacking deal a slight amount of reflexive damage depending on the attack (likely tied to stam consumption)
leg fracture: reduces speed by less (enough to make carno slower than pachy, but not by much) (maybe dino specific), no longer disables alt attacks, only disables jumping attacks (like pounce).
all fractures now stun when applied by any source.

Essentially, remove pachy's ability to entirely prevent a target from fighting back, but continuing to fight is the worse option for both sides. While also allowing both sides to still have the option to escape. This also works as a good foundation for the future fracture dinos, since they either use it as an escape option or as a supplement for combat.

[analog mirage]

Then play like any other playable who relies on actually being next to your target to hit them. Pachy is a defensive dinosaur. things come to it and if they do they get destroyed.

Pachy has it too easy. you look in someones general direction and send a unjukable nuke at them

If a Pachy runs up to you and bonks you, you are still getting fractured, Now Pachy can't just do it from 10 feet away

You already have the ability to prevent someone from doing anything. So making it more about them running to you isn’t a bad thing

[hasty coyote]

I see pachy as no where near as defensive as other species, its inherently an aggressive species even in the concept art. Hit first, ask questions later deal. It lacks the hp and reach to play defensively and just stand its ground. Prime example of defensive dinos are teno and stego, who both have a long reaching and heavily damaging tail attack that locks them in place, while also having a solid hp pool to tank a few attacks.

Also, it is nowhere near an undogeable, it may feel that way because of latency and such making it favor what the pachy sees (you like a seond ago) so it appears like you got hit from 10 feet away, when you were actually right infront of the pachy.

[hasty coyote]

The issue is less of the ability to land an attack, and more of leg fracture just being a death sentence.

[keen plover]

Those other animals don't get stuck in place as long as pachy does. Maybe if Pachy had a moving attack similar to legacy it would be a fine trade

[strong kayak]

I see your point
But the pachy missile is very funny

[dusky lynx]

THIS

[dusky lynx]

no its not a garantee. i play pachy and if i tail hit anything IT DOESNT BREAK ANYTHING -600 plus hrs of pachy experience here

To everyone mad about pachy all of its predators are** faster** than it and cera and omni have better turning than it too! if u are so worried about being leg broke then leave pachys alone. but if you are a half decent carnivore you can kill a pachy because just like everything else it has cooldowns on its attacks and has weak points to. ❄️ 's

[dusky surge]

cera also can just bite pachy after it goes for a ram, given how pachy's ram does not stun it

[deft blaze]

Simply perform better

[quasi sandal]

I've killed some fg ceras as pachy, but in pachy's defense they were pretty bad at their job

So the lovely little bonker missile can stay as it is, the carnivores just have to resolve their skill issues

[dusky surge]

pachy is to carno and cera as stego is to deino

a skillcheck

[quasi sandal]

Solo pachy runs are great

So is solo cera

[torn egret]

You can’t alt bite with broke leg right?

[noble shore]

2500 hours in game and i can say pretty solid tail hits specificaly to DILOS they end up in leg fractures. It doesnt happen to all species as i said, just learn to read more carefully next time before u start typing out from frustration

[drowsy thunder]

Broken legs are probably the most punishing fracture in the game

It hurts

[tropic horizon]

more pachy balance discussion i see

[tropic horizon]

yeah thats usually what it comes down to at the end of the day

[vital cradle]

This channel might be the wrong place to ask this, and if so I apoligize, but does anyone know if the devs are aware of the bug (i atleast believe it to be so??) w carno instantly knocking you down?

[tight cove]

@noble shore your absolutely right teno def needs some type of nerf.

[noble shore]

glad u realise it too mate

[torn egret]

ngl, getting very tired of how anti solo the game is

pack animals are ridiculously strong

[tight cove]

Teno is a very good solo animal rn it can hold its own

[dusky lynx]

tail hits are not legs break. 2500 hours since dilos release? probably no

[leaden remnant]

honestly it's just survival

you can find another solo player and destroy him but irl, which is what this somewhat represents, you either pack up or be strong enough to kill something in seconds

[tropic horizon]

its actually ridiculous to me at this point. Like you can't expect everyone to be grouped up at all times thats just not how this stuff works at all.

[alpine plover]

Teno doesn’t need a nerf

[torn egret]

This sounds out of left field, but the migration zones themselves are a bit of a problem. Because they are the same, and food always spawns in the same place, yet why is it so hard to find anything in the migration zone?
I think that the current way food spawns for both herbi and carni are causing the issues with people grouping up.
It’s better for carnivores to have at least 3 for ai spawns, and herbivores can smell meat, but carnivores can’t smell the herbi food.
On top of the ridiculous combat power bigger herbivores have, the only playable you see are teno steg and pachy.
If they want to make packing more common, then have Dino’s spawn in different areas, and maybe actually reward nesting. But I know mutations will allow that.

[leaden remnant]

why does teno even need a nerf...

[coarse blaze]

It doesn't

[leaden remnant]

a cera can absolutely demolish it and a carno as well

[coarse blaze]

Omnis are also still very, very capable of bleeding out a teno

[slim dragon]

it's a herbivore duh

[leaden remnant]

yea cause teno has a bad bleed resistance

so it makes sense

[coarse blaze]

No no, they have a point. Walking food can't fight back, God forbid run.

[leaden remnant]

im just confused

like why do tenos even need a nerf what's there to nerf

[coarse blaze]

They complain about it's stamina

[leaden remnant]

teno ain't fast anyways

and has pretty bad bleed resistance

like seriously a cera is more than capable of killing one teno

[coarse blaze]

Personally I think a lot of carnivore mains have just gotten a little too used to being hand-held.

I'm a carnivore and therefore herbivores should fear me, they are food, etc.

[leaden remnant]

i am an omni main

and i think teno does NOT need a nerf

[coarse blaze]

I'll rephrase it

[leaden remnant]

at all

i absolutely agree with the new statement

[coarse blaze]

🤝

[leaden remnant]

🤝

when i first played cera i was so confsued

i was thinking how the hell is this so op

boi i can beat anything that i want up

went straight for two carnos and actually won

nobody died tho since they wanted my body and well

i am not giving up my damn body hehe

i am seriously confused how does teno need a nerf it is a punching bag imo

raptor can bleed it out solo

cera can maul it to death, carno can absolutely obliterate it

[alpine plover]

A skilled teno vs a skilled carno is leaning towards the teno player no matter what

Unless the teno player is injured already

[leaden remnant]

i mean to be honest

teno should absolutely be able to defend itself from a carnivore

and still fails most of the times

a very good teno player should absolutely fend off a carno/cera

i seriously doubt even the most skilled teno can fend off two mid-good cera players tho

it is in the place it has to be

smth that you can try to hunt but isn't a guaranteed meal

[noble shore]

Teno has insane dmg, insane bleed, insane cc (stuns, knockbacks) which guarantee powerful chain attacks, insane stamina, minimum stamina consumption from attacks (50 kicks arent already enough?), insane max group for how strong it is, can jump and stay safe on unreachable terrains, and its very very fast on land and water. If these points arent valid to nerf him then u just "play it blind". He needs to be nerfed asap.

[tropic horizon]

no?

[leaden remnant]

it does not need a nerf sir

[tropic horizon]

literally the only nerf it needs is a slight increase in stamina cost for its abilities to me and thats it

[leaden remnant]

carno has insane damage amazing speed horrible turn speed imma keep charge out of this because no chance u use it and the ability to bait

and cera has the charge bite

[noble shore]

carno is a clown currently

[leaden remnant]

i dont think i have to even say more than charge bite

[noble shore]

literally at its worse from the moment of his release

[leaden remnant]

carno is a killing machine

[tropic horizon]

eh? yes and no, its in a really weird spot atm

[leaden remnant]

it just goes around wiping out entire ecosysetms

[tropic horizon]

its not weak, its just all over the place atm

[leaden remnant]

its charge has the laggiest hitbox in existence that you can use to kill people from 1000000000m away

the alt bite is laggy as hell and can hit you from everywhere

[tropic horizon]

thats every attack in the game honestly

[noble shore]

okay i though i had to do with some logic and sensible statements here, u clearly are trolling or speaking out of thin air

[tropic horizon]

everything has a bad hitbox

[leaden remnant]

i am not trolling good sir

theres a reason why when the carnos pull up everything goes silent

[tropic horizon]

carno isnt a pushover either, but its not really op either

[leaden remnant]

carno is the strongest carnivore atm

[tropic horizon]

tenos punk carno easily

[leaden remnant]

however i am surpised that you try to hunt tenos as a carno

[noble shore]

maybe could do the trick

[leaden remnant]

it isn't designed for that with its turn speed

[cosmic pelican]

6.5 carno:

[leaden remnant]

but either way with a lil skill you can wipe out entire ecosysetms

oh and also teno's stam is completely fine, it can't run so it has to sit there and fend off for itself

[noble shore]

fend off with 50 kicks? like what? 10 carnos?

[leaden remnant]

1-2

and even 2 is awfully difficult

[tropic horizon]

if theyre ceratos, sure, ig. right now its really bad at the whole small game hunter thing. Cant really chase down anything with its awful turn and ambushing is literally impossible now because it takes all of your stamina to actually be able to use your ability as an ambush tool

[leaden remnant]

the charge thing rn is awful

[coarse blaze]

I don't think carno's charge should have ever been able to topple teno from a short distance honestly.

[tropic horizon]

charge is insanely wonky rn

[noble shore]

carno is a beast, we dont speak about troodon weight here

[coarse blaze]

Carno literally had the combo people are currently whining that teno has, stun + an attack.

[noble shore]

guess what, he nerfed into the void, teno is still there untouched

[coarse blaze]

Guess what? Carno has more health than teno

Crazy really

[tropic horizon]

teno does more damage than carno, and way quicker as well

[leaden remnant]

gotta remember that teno is also a beast

1.6 tons

look at those legs

it absolutely should stun and megabonkers a carno

[noble shore]

people here just whining when it has to do with carnivores, i see it over and over again, then once someone says something for nerfing a herbie, and the most powerful chosen one (teno), suddenly they turn against it

its hilarious

double standards all the way

[coarse blaze]

It takes no stamina to bite with carno, it takes stamina to attack with any of tenos "higher DMG" attacks

[tropic horizon]

teno literally takes like, 1000 damage away with one combo on a carno not to mention bleed which with 2 kicks usually is enough to bleed a carno out

[leaden remnant]

yes because teno doesn't need a nerf

but certain carnivores do need a buff

a herbi and a carni are very different, it's not double standards, it's understanding its hunters/prey and situation

[tropic horizon]

takes practically no stamina to do a 300 damage kick that has CC and bleed. like 1 percent of your stamina to kick which is tenos strongest move btw so that point literally means nothing

[coarse blaze]

Wouldn't that be to the head? Which realistically I don't see you hitting without a stun.

[stark knoll]

Kick hasn't had 300 damage in quite a few patches

Iirc the damage is closer to like 170 right now (excluding headshots and the like)

[coarse blaze]

Wasn't it 70 something a bit ago?

[tropic horizon]

I forgor, wasnt 300 was slightly less than that but the point is that you can easily stun a carno and follow it up with 2 kicks to the head

[stark knoll]

No, never that low

[coarse blaze]

I might be thinking of the claws

[tropic horizon]

its more like 220 atm, or higher. not really sure

[tropic horizon]

the claws do like 125-150 damage if Im remembering things right

along with very great bleed

well, great bleed for an attack that is so easy to land anyways

[noble shore]

thats another joke, he has nails to dig up potatos and roots and he can inflict heavier bleed that raptor xd

[tropic horizon]

point is that yeah, teno needs some stam increase to its stronger attacks (mainly just the kick)

[coarse blaze]

I'm just saying I think teno is in a fine place right now, I don't think it needs messed with. Carnivores could use some help sure but right now I'm just seeing a lot of "pachy and teno OP"

[noble shore]

its in a fine place but he needs to be dethroned and put back in line

[tropic horizon]

The pachy op thing is a complete joke, the teno op thing has a bit more merit to it but I feel people just want to overly nerf teno in a lot of places

not saying people say pachy op is a joke, but the argument itself has no merit to it lmao

[coarse blaze]

Last time teno got nerfed it wasn't viable really, I completely get people not wanting it touched.

The pachy thing is weird

[tropic horizon]

which was... when?

[noble shore]

it was viable, it wasnt op like u have been used to it being

[coarse blaze]

A bit ago to be fair

[tropic horizon]

like which teno nerf are we talking here?

[golden coral]

In general, carnis should fail more than they should succeed in hunts, at least if we want a decent ecosystem and so on

So while maybe teno and pachy are bordering on too good, it does make sense that the carnis should fail and starve more often than not

[noble shore]

i think he saying for a small change in stamina that got reverted back cause of outcries here

[coarse blaze]

I couldn't tell you the exact patch when those nerfs were, it was before Gateway however and around the Spiro times.

[leaden remnant]

unless you're mega skilled

[golden coral]

If all AI was removed, then there'd be a decent reason to nerf herbis a bit

[coarse blaze]

You know it wouldn't be a "small stamina" change

[tropic horizon]

that never made it unviable, at all. the nerf itself didnt make it unviable, the thing that made it unviable was the fact that carno was literally completely overpowered lol

[leaden remnant]

that's why you always make sure you're good to at least fail one hunt heal up and succeed in another

[noble shore]

yes, but they should fail hunts cause of big herds and of failed ambushes, not the hunter to become the hunted

[tropic horizon]

it wasnt so much a teno problem as it was a carno problem at that time

[golden coral]

Well yes, but unless you always pick the best options and are really skilled, you should have the worry of a failed hunt in the back of your mind. And you put it quite well, you should always make sure you can afford a failure, just in case, and still be around for another attempt (or scavenging)

[leaden remnant]

ofc

[golden coral]

No, because herd argument makes for terrible balancing. Ambushes, sure, if they're designed to ambush

[leaden remnant]

that's why you go and commit murdur

[noble shore]

then remove max number of herbies and lower it if thats not a thing

[leaden remnant]

i am surprised tho, do you fail most carno ambushes?

[coarse blaze]

I just think too many people expect carnivores to just go around killing anything that doesn't have sharp teeth

or if it's bigger it's better

[golden coral]

It's more so that you can't balance something to not be able to survive 1v1, or it won't be viable

[leaden remnant]

yes

herbis r literally designed to survive most encounters

[golden coral]

I mean, carno currently is really bad at ambushing, again, because no knockdown unless you run for a while in charge

Which is, quite frankly, a very strange decision

[leaden remnant]

with ambushes i don't mean the ambush ability by teh way

i mean approaching someone and megabonking him in the head

[coarse blaze]

God I hope rex isn't the nightmare it was on Legacy however, trikes gotta do something when the time comes.

[tropic horizon]

I honestly just want more changes in favor of solo players because jesus christ the newer changes just seem to do uh, anything but that

[golden coral]

Nor do I. But current charge isn't really good for ambushing unless you're doing the instant only damage version

[leaden remnant]

i agree

[noble shore]

1vs1 raptor and carno is not viable, there we go with pack limits again;)

[golden coral]

Because no player with half a braincell is going to see you approach from half a mile away and wait there in place for you to land the charge

[golden coral]

They are, they are very viable

[leaden remnant]

i mean to be fair i find carno to be the best ambusher right now

get close and then just speed at him

[golden coral]

Carno can survive any encounter 1v1, if it can't fight, it can run

[coarse blaze]

^

[golden coral]

Omni, same, it can avoid and juke carno, and dilo too (and fight back against dilos, at least in part)

[tropic horizon]

Current charge isnt really good for much atm, unless we're talking about insta ramming something like a cerato which is like, one of the only practical applications I can think of for it

[noble shore]

well, teno too he can jump

[leaden remnant]

uh in this one u mean that carno survives or that raptor survives most of the times

[golden coral]

And they can hunt and survive, be it on AI or proper targets

[tropic horizon]

Herrera is the best ambusher atm id say

[coarse blaze]

Most people aren't jumping with teno mid-fight

[golden coral]

Yeah sure, teno can jump, or swim away, or other options, like other playables can

[leaden remnant]

only on certain spots of the map tho

[coarse blaze]

I know people are complaining about the noise it makes but it's not that loud I don't think

Herrera and deino I think have the best ambushes

[noble shore]

they jump to a rock and come down only to bully and up again when they get beaten up cause they re trash skilled

[coarse blaze]

Then leave

[golden coral]

I'd argue instant charge on omni or similar sized critters are the good point, it still does damage point blank, if less, and you can probably kill those in two or three quick "point blank" charges if you have to

But if you need the knockdown, well, good luck

[tropic horizon]

like 90% of the map has trees everywhere or at least some highground for it to jump off of, its better than carno at it

[leaden remnant]

i guess i can't really say no to that

[golden coral]

95% of that is because people are just.... stupid honestly

[noble shore]

then fix the game, just what kind of argument was that

[coarse blaze]

It's really not

[leaden remnant]

why r u down there waiting to get bullied

[coarse blaze]

They're not fighting you, they're cheesing so just leave it if it's that bad.

[noble shore]

waiting to finish them off and eat maybe?

[golden coral]

Like, you'll have players get jumped by a herrera, then proceed to chase the herrera up the tree, and stand right there, just for the herrera to, predictably, drop down on them again so they die

[leaden remnant]

you ain't gonna succeed if he can even get up

[tropic horizon]

yeah thats honestly where most of the "balance issues" in this game come from usually. Its usually just dumb people complaining that the game didnt live up to their dumb expectations XD

[leaden remnant]

just dip and scavenge for a while or go kill something else

you even said it, go down to bully, so you're just begging to get bullied

[coarse blaze]

Waiting to starve I guess is the strat

[golden coral]

"Oh hey, this herrera dropped on me, let me chase it back up the tree, then stand around so it can do so again and maybe this time kill me"

[leaden remnant]

absolutely

[coarse blaze]

Why happen again ???

God people are going to riot with dibble

[golden coral]

I'd argue deino, then followed by omni/troodon (if they can still pounce from very up close), then pachy and then herrera honestly

[leaden remnant]

im scared of dibble

genuinely i am scared of it

when it gets added... boi pachy players are gonna get an upgrade

[tropic horizon]

"Oh this stego started walking away from my deino onto land. Better chase it down on land and attempt to hunt it!"

[leaden remnant]

FR

[coarse blaze]

Troodon I think needs a little love but I'm just not sure what exactly.

[golden coral]

Pachy can ambush surprisingly well with tap rams, and pounce was always really good at ambushing, especially if you're aiming for things you can pin. Herrera I would say vary, because the drop time is a thing and if they move even a little you might very well miss, it doesn't have the instant attack deino does

[leaden remnant]

i mean to be fair having a small as hell animal against raptor, cera, carno, etc, well...

[golden coral]

Maybe so, I was purely talking ambush potential with the pounce

[coarse blaze]

No no I get you there, I just feel like the kit feels weirdly lacking right now.

[golden coral]

I think troodon is... badly designed

[coarse blaze]

Maybe since we're getting more fleshed out mechanics it just feels a little funky

[golden coral]

While the "mini game" of pounce/venom is cool, it does not suit it

[tropic horizon]

The fake animal

[golden coral]

I imagined troodon being much more of a "dogpile" playable, just everyone jumping the target, all the time, being all over it and all that

[coarse blaze]

I gotcha, I gotcha and with it's size it does the "get in and get out" pretty well I think.

[golden coral]

Rather than this weird turn based game

But I guess omni with pounce to pin might be more of the "just everybody jump the target at once"

[leaden remnant]

i have a question for yall

do yall think it'd be a good addition to make raptor pounce do 50% more bleed but in return 50% less raw damage?

pounce doesn't do much bleed right now honestly

i find it dumb that it does so much raw damage

[tropic horizon]

really not looking forward to this depending on how they execute it. If its just "a bunch of raptors pin one dude down while he cant do anything about it" Im gonna really hate it

[golden coral]

It does, though ideally an ambush would be a one hit kill, so troodon lacks the power for it more often than not, but it's mechanic, as can be seen when you pin, is very good for the "boom, you're dead"

[leaden remnant]

it literally is that 😭

buncha raptors pounce smth and overwhelm it so it goes down and dies

[golden coral]

No, I honestly want the raw damage pounce back

[tropic horizon]

it does plenty of bleed atm

[leaden remnant]

it isn't in a bad place right now but imo could do some more

hell, a teno claw attack does more than raptor pounce

[noble shore]

it will be more like a finisher move, if they have succeeded to weaken the target enough

[leaden remnant]

surprising

[tropic horizon]

I'd hate for this to be back in the game because this is what enabled it to do horrendous things in the past. Like when 4 omnis could guarantee a kill against a stego by just, holding rmb

[golden coral]

If you get a full pounce off, compared to the teno claw?

[leaden remnant]

oh no not a full stam pounce

honestly that's never going to happen unless you want to die

[noble shore]

compare the stamina cost and the output, teno has better bleed

[leaden remnant]

typically you spend 20-30% on a pounce and then let it bleed out for a while

[golden coral]

To be fair, that was far more an issue with stego than omni, and of course, weird hp/weight/balance per say

But there are ways to make raw damage based pounce work, and work with bucking better than current as well

[leaden remnant]

as a raptor going below 60% is a very bad idea

learned it uhh... the hard way

[golden coral]

Is it? I want pounce to be more of a finisher, in order to mitigate the terrain use better

[tropic horizon]

I like bleed pounce way more tbh, just my opinion anyways

[golden coral]

Well no, but a reasonably long pounce at least

[leaden remnant]

yeah it surprised me, but alright i have no issues with it

[golden coral]

Though to be fair, it could also simply be because teno can't set the pace compared to omni

[leaden remnant]

of course, that's what you try to achieve, however you need to make sure that you can run away from it if it fights back very aggressively

[golden coral]

So omni get to take more time, while tenos bleed might need to be more effective to make the predator go away quicker

[coarse blaze]

Can steg still not swing if latched? I'm growing a new steg since that was a thing.

[leaden remnant]

yep

[golden coral]

I think they fixed that

[coarse blaze]

Thank God

[golden coral]

Not sure, but hopefully at least

[tropic horizon]

it can fight back while pounced now

[leaden remnant]

fixed

[noble shore]

he can just kick it back to selection screen xD his high bleed is more like a cherry toping to his op raw damage

[golden coral]

But with current omni, if it gets pounced by four of them, it loses all stam bucking them or how it went

[coarse blaze]

I'm genuinely curious about stegs new attack but I'm also a tad worried with the talk of weird camera angles or it being removed by the time its added in.

[golden coral]

So keep a tree or rock close xD

[leaden remnant]

honestly a 4 raptor pounce is pretty damn scary to me

[golden coral]

Honestly, the kick is rather limited in range and all, the teno has to get up close, turn around, and then hit you

[coarse blaze]

That is actually just awful

[leaden remnant]

it's very difficult and unlikely tho

[noble shore]

to kick him down the rock? right xD

[tropic horizon]

its honestly just better to not even buck and walk your butt over to a tree and park yourself there

[golden coral]

It should be, honestly, if they can pull off a coordinated ambush like that, you should be in trouble

[coarse blaze]

Can you swing on dismount again or is there still a safety net?

[golden coral]

Bucking being back to not being that good of an option, unfortunately

[leaden remnant]

you're in mild trouble if they do that

thing is, you need an actually good pack to be able to pull that off

[golden coral]

And thus we get all of the "terrain abuse" complaints

[leaden remnant]

in your 99% raptor gameplay, that being done is delusional

[golden coral]

Wouldn't really call it mild if you lose all your stam bucking them off or even moving with them

[coarse blaze]

I know I had the same omni pounce me twice as teno and I bucked both times for a pretty good while and it didn't seem to help. I ended up bleeding out.

[golden coral]

Since they drain stam just by being latched, if you move

[leaden remnant]

if you lose all your stam it would be horrendous

[golden coral]

No idea there either, I would think there's probably still a safety net there

[coarse blaze]

[leaden remnant]

they greatly reduced teh raptor stam consumption while pouncing

[golden coral]

So try and catch them on the mount rather than dismount, or if you knock em off with terrain

[tropic horizon]

Also Ive had a lil idea in my head where like, omnis could manipulate the movement of whatever it is pouncing a tiny amount but I havent fully fleshed it out much in my mind so idk how well that would work. Idk if it would work well but it could perhaps stop people from camping near tiny ledges against omni.

[golden coral]

You do as stego, if you buck all four of them, so yeah xD

[leaden remnant]

good luck getting it back without dying...

[coarse blaze]

Noted, I'll just scratch them off if need be; I'm seeing a lot of mixing still with omnis which is always a bit nerve wracking.

[leaden remnant]

i find the fact that if stego goes below 25% it's game over horrendous

[golden coral]

Hence, you're in trouble, and not just "mild" trouble if you do run into a coordinated ambush

[coarse blaze]

People still love to say steg is immortal but it's really not

[leaden remnant]

don't bother bucking, trust me, go to a tree

[golden coral]

I mean, going below 25% and you're solo, and you rely on stamina for useful attacks, you just die

[leaden remnant]

yall know that im a raptor main, the pounce really got a nice stam consumption

[tropic horizon]

Also wondering if gravity could be more fleshed out to where larger things would slip down stuff they should actually be slipping down instead of them like, standing on top of a tiny little rock near a death drop

[leaden remnant]

i can pounce smth and stay there for a little while

i typically do 5-10 second long pounces depending on the circumstances and then just bites

if the player decides to try and defend without running at me ill get my stam back and pounce again

for example tenos trying to make me go to their tail

if they dont wanna move i wont either

[alpine plover]

Troodon was fine before dilo got released, after that everyone just forgot about it..

[leaden remnant]

i absolutely hate dilo

[alpine plover]

I’m the opposite

[leaden remnant]

the way it works right now is horrendous imo

[tropic horizon]

cause I think the main form of terrain which actually makes steg immortal are stuff like little corners of the map where they can sit by and not be punished at all while if an omni were to pounce or try to do anything to kill them, theyd just throw them off a death drop while suffering no consequences

[leaden remnant]

i don't hate dilo itself but the way it works agains other dinos

the speed, etc

[golden coral]

Well yeah, dilo cooler! But even back then I didn't agree with how troodon is designed xD

[leaden remnant]

i can't lie tho, it works as a stego population control

[coarse blaze]

I don't like just how many dilos I see with one another

[tropic horizon]

idk I just wan a counter to people standing on tiny bits of geometry and not just, falling off that ledge like they actually should because theyre too heavy

[coarse blaze]

for something made to be more of a solo hunter seeing 9-12 isn't uncommon

Let alone mixing with genuinely any other carnivore

[golden coral]

And for something not meant to punch up, dilo does it quite well

[coarse blaze]

I love biting 3 times and then just spamming the same key for 5 minutes

[leaden remnant]

fr 💀

[alpine plover]

whatever happened to dilo eating stuff alive wasn’t that in its concept art?

[golden coral]

Carno = hunt small game - has a rather badly designed mechanic for it. Dilo = does not punch up - mechanic allows it to do so really well

Makes perfect sense I guess xD

[coarse blaze]

Solid design

[leaden remnant]

pretty much yes

[golden coral]

I think they want to add that, but it's going to be down the line, and probably for more playables, as well as the ability to skip it, if you're on the recieving end

[alpine plover]

Makes sense

[tropic horizon]

the only small game that carno is even remotely good at hunting is ironically, dilo itself. just something i find really funny

[coarse blaze]

I think cera is in a pretty alright spot, it's a good nomad sort of carnivore and feels scavenger-esc. Also while being pretty capable in defending itself.

[golden coral]

And all they had to do, was limit the knockdown range on charge xD

[tropic horizon]

No.

[coarse blaze]

Herra I think is pretty alright too right now

[coarse blaze]

Genuinely curious why you think its not

[alpine plover]

Herrera is pretty good

[golden coral]

For now

[tropic horizon]

Cerato gets like, absolutely punked by 90% of the roster rn

[alpine plover]

Gotta love the “for now” xD

[golden coral]

Cera needs some more "long term consequenses" to it's bile

[coarse blaze]

A good cera though can hold real well, I don't see it as something that should be getting into fights but can defend itself pretty alright.

[tropic horizon]

Because bile is such an ineffective detterent against stuff it should be bullying. You can run away and heal the bile in under a minute and then come back and kill the cera with no issues.

[golden coral]

Less of "vomit lock" in the direct fight, more of a "yeah sure, fight me, even kill me, but for the next two hours, you'll be in misery, so is it really worth it?"

[coarse blaze]

I mean that's enough for a FG carno to starve to death after the fact.

[golden coral]

At some point, I'm sure people will learn to look up, not stand still under or near trees, and so on

But to be fair, that point could be far into the future

[tropic horizon]

A good carno can kill a cerato with basically nothing the cera can do to defend itself. Dilo also rinses cerato pretty effectively same with teno and pachy. Cerato just gets punked by most things which is my main problem. The corpse bully, gets bullied by everything even WITH a corpse.

[coarse blaze]

I've seen solo ceras wipe dilo packs; carno though is for sure far more tricky for cera if you never saw it coming.

[alpine plover]

A good cerato against a good dilo, idk if dilo rinses it quickly

[coarse blaze]

Cera shouldn't hunt teno in my option.

But can kill a pachy, I wouldn't find it worth the effort though.

That's why I'm glad it scavs well, it makes up for not being a big brawler.

[tropic horizon]

Im not saying it should hunt teno, Im saying teno absolutely rinses it. Also a teno can straight up chase a cera down for... some reason.

[tropic horizon]

it can kill a pachy, but like, the moment one or two more shows up it crumples like paper.

[slim dragon]

Last time I played dilo, all it did was confirm my suspicion : AI are immune to venom

[tropic horizon]

Its "fracture resistance" is like, one more hit to break a bone. and sometimes it doesnt even work right

[alpine plover]

Ceratos wipe dilo packs easily, a single dilo wouldn’t be enough to deal with a skilled cerato.

[slim dragon]

I kinda noticed it when I pounced boars as a troodon, my troo would never do the "can pounce again" call
And as a dilo even after biting AI a few times I would never be able to laugh

[coarse blaze]

AI needs work

Can't wait for taco to run at mach 10

[tropic horizon]

no? where are you getting this from im curious because two dilos can shred a cerato with little effort and the only hope the cerato has of living is if it gets into water. and even then it might just die outright on the way there to the venom.

[slim dragon]

AI having good stats is fine
It's their behavior that poses a problem

[coarse blaze]

If I saw more than 2 aggro pachys I'd just consider it done if I can't run from em.

[golden coral]

I think we should try with AI disabled entirely for a while xD

[coarse blaze]

I like how I looked at a boar from 10 meters and it chased me down right away.

Or when my fresh teno got tail nipped to death via boar

[tropic horizon]

Yeah thats my issue, cant really escape from much or defend itself from much outside of like, omni.

[alpine plover]

It’s frequent I’ve seen skilled players go against each and multiple isle videos (also skilled YouTubers) test these matches and majority of the matches end with ceratos winning either closely or drastically.

[coarse blaze]

Gotta live that nomad life away from people, clean up what's left and hope you don't get chased down.

[slim dragon]

1. Calling constantly, but not having pain sounds
2. Sometimes they see you from the other side of the map, sometimes they don't notice you biting their butt
   3.Boar attack hitbox is massive

[coarse blaze]

It just works

[tropic horizon]

Ive killed so many countless ceratos as dilo theyre honestly dilos best choice of prey outside of omnis atm. Ive seen these "skilled players" kill dilos but more often than not the dilos literally let the cerato kill it.

Me and my friend have a pair of dilos we havent lost for several months and weve killed like, 6+ ceratos as just 2 dilos.

We 2v2ed a group of ceras and won somehow so idk. Maybe we just have different experiences.

[alpine plover]

Probably but most dilo players don’t know what their doing so I guess you have a point.

I’ve been in dilo packs where they’ll face tank ceratos charged bites

[tropic horizon]

Yeah and ive seen ceras do equally stupid things and its just funny when it happens XD

[alpine plover]

Yeah lmao 😂

[tight cove]

Yes it does bro it’s way to powerful

[alpine plover]

In what way

[tight cove]

It needs at least a stamina nerf

50 attacks is busted

And whoever says a single cera and kill a teno must have never played against a good teno player

You need at least 2 ceras to do that

[alpine plover]

I’ve seen skilled ceratos kill skilled tenos

It’s not impossible

[cosmic pelican]

After those 50 attacks its pretty much defenseless, unlike its carnivore counterparts who get infinite high damage attacks.

Which are forward facing, allowing for better offense, and can have better attack speed than tenos attacks

[leaden remnant]

it's very much possible

unless you have a big skill issue as a carno/cera you can demolish a teno

[tight cove]

Carno vs teno is even worse odds

[tight cove]

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but the odds aren’t very good

[alpine plover]

I mean yeah because teno isn’t in a solo carnos ideal prey

[leaden remnant]

worse than cera, yes, but cera odds are pretty high already so

[tight cove]

It’s still busted bro if you wasted all of that stamina of course your gonna be defenseless doesn’t change the fact teno still does high dmg plus has good cc, and it does knock down and stuns plus it has great bleed and etc 😂

[leaden remnant]

well what r u asking for

because teno rn pretty much gets demolished by cera and carno

you can't have the kill in a silver plate

you gotta fight for it, you gotta use all of your skill, your baits, chances, etc

if you go in and try to tail tank a teno ofc you're gonna die

this is gonna sound stupid but the solution to stuns is not getting kicked

[tight cove]

It needs at bare minimum a slight stamina nerf we should make teno have at least a bit more skill to use, a lot of teno players don’t even have to think about using there attacks and can just span them. 😂

[leaden remnant]

you can't spam a teno attack

[tight cove]

I got no problem with tenos stuns

[leaden remnant]

you're dead if you do

also all of its attacks cost stam

the only one that doesn't is the bite which does just no damage

[tight cove]

In a 1v1 unless that teno is a bad player your most likely losing

[leaden remnant]

wat

no you win

how do you lose to a teno as a cera

you gotta have a very big skill issue to lose to it

like even as raptor you can kill one without much issues

[tight cove]

I mean your right you can’t spam it as much ever since the attack cool down update but you can still use your attacks without much thought and still do decently well

[leaden remnant]

no you gotta be extremely precise

you gotta use a lotta brain power to hit em

[tight cove]

No bro 😭

[leaden remnant]

absolutely

you really gotta have a big skill issue to lose to a teno as a cera

they are walking food

[cosmic pelican]

Im against nerfing teno, but Ill have to disagree

[alpine plover]

Ye

[tight cove]

Yeah if the teno player is dirt lol

[cosmic pelican]

Teno can put up a very tough fight short term, but struggles in prolonged fights

[leaden remnant]

no he can be skilled and still die

use the environment to your advantage

[tight cove]

… 💀

[leaden remnant]

don't get behind it

and you already win just by doing that

[tight cove]

That’s how Ik bro only fought against dirt tenos ☠️

[leaden remnant]

boi i maul them as a raptor with bites

i can't get thru my head how someone can die as a cera

you can even tank some kicks i get 1 shotted

[keen plover]

Is this bait

[leaden remnant]

the few times that i play as cera i just eat tenos

[cosmic pelican]

I dont even know at this point

[alpine plover]

I’m confused as well

[leaden remnant]

no i am absolutely fr

[tight cove]

Gotta be, and I’m glad you joined in bro, tell him 😭😭😂

[cosmic pelican]

Teno balance discussions are just something else man ;-;

[leaden remnant]

im not tryna act like a god here or anything btw

i fail miserably more than i win

but man as a cera with the charge bite vomit etc

[keen plover]

Maybe you can lose to a cera but an Omni lol?

[alpine plover]

I don’t think anyone would be on the side of nerfing teno it’s not coherently unbalanced.

[leaden remnant]

i gotta say that the ones i kill as a raptor aren't the best

they have a moderate skill issue

it isn't a terrible thing but there is a lot of room for improvement

but i just don't understand why teno has to be nerfed

it is a moderately big herbivore 1.6 tons that kicks

and has a tail half of its body long

ofc it's gonna do damage

hunting isn't a 100% guaranteed meal

[keen plover]

Personally I don’t mind if teno stays as is, but I do think the stamina costs are a bit much.

I’d make it so Teno and other defensive creatures can regen stamina while walking / standing when under 25% though

[leaden remnant]

it's a 30%

[leaden remnant]

stegos' situation right now is terrible with stamina below 25%

i mean i can't lie i hate stegos but i don't think they should be miserable with the stamina since its tail swing does cost quite a bit

[keen plover]

Yeah

[cosmic pelican]

Stego is just a joke of an animal rn lol
Its only saving grace are the mudpools at swamp

[leaden remnant]

i actually feel bad for stegos for the first time in my life

[alpine plover]

That works yeah, but I’m tired of seeing carno/cerato mains flat out want teno to be nerfed because they couldn’t kill it with no skill whatsoever.

[leaden remnant]

literally

i recommend those ppl to become raptor mains for a month or two and then go back to cera

they will see a skill increase of 900%

[tight cove]

Let me make this clear I just want a stamina nerf for teno

[keen plover]

I’d make kick 4% and slam 5%, but let Teno actually regen stamina when below 25% while walking, standing and sitting

[leaden remnant]

that wuold be reasonable

[cosmic pelican]

I do love how I barely saw people complain when insta charge carno absolutely demolished teno without barely any counterplay, but as soon as teno is decent at defending itself balance feedback is flooded lol

[leaden remnant]

and i would definetely go all for it

[leaden remnant]

literally 😭

let tenos enjoy emselves now that they can

[cosmic pelican]

And even though teno is supposedly op, I barely see any

[keen plover]

Tbf there was a decent amount of suggestions to nerf Carno.

[cosmic pelican]

I saw like 2 this month, thats it

[alpine plover]

Problem with carno right now is that it needs 6 full seconds of charge to knock something over, like 6 full seconds of charge to knock galli over?

[keen plover]

Problem with Carno is it’s so reliant on a mechanic

[cosmic pelican]

Probably, yeah. But I feel like teno caused way more of an outrage

[keen plover]

Fair

[tight cove]

Funny enough I see herds of them of them constantly

[cosmic pelican]

Where do you play usually?

[tight cove]

Na1

[keen plover]

Same

[cosmic pelican]

No I meant map area

Ive regularly been everywhere but water access, yet I dont see a single teno

I hear them, but they always vanish ;-;

[tight cove]

Ngl I don’t know the names yet but I go to the regular hot spots 😂

[keen plover]

Teno’s have all their diets at the east side of the map so they stay there

NE, East plains & the coast is usually the teno migration cycle

[tight cove]

Yup

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah same, maybe tenos are just near extinct on eu

[cosmic pelican]

@viscid schooner oh boy do I have news for you...

[viscid schooner]

About time. I'm assuming that means omni will be able to pounce at things' tails again?

And/or troodon

Oh nvm I jsut saw that part, sweet

[leaden remnant]

yis

rappie mains rejoice

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

goddamn i knew nickaboay had some bad takes but jeez lol

is this from that "if i were a dev" playlist i heard so much about lol

calling a raptor a "pseudo-bleeder" is wild too lol

someone needs to remove pseudo from this community's vocab at this point

[golden coral]

So much for omni and troodon requiring some skill, if they're just going to let them pounce from the rear as well again. Could just adjust the angles if needed, but it should still require aiming mostly for the flanks. But I guess we're going back to "just aim in general direction and you're good", more or less

[dusky surge]

at least it isn't facepounce

i think it's a decent in-between. It means they can't play overaggro and facetank you, but actually can ambush

i assume that's what they're going for

[slim dragon]

I'd make it so tail base works, tailtip pounces don't

[dusky surge]

obviously lol

[slim dragon]

You never know with this game

[dusky surge]

im hoping they don't do anything to raptor besides pounce to pin and these pounce changes. Any more than that, and raptorpocalypse (again)

[slim dragon]

I just watched the beginning of the video
It begins with "carno is a bad ambusher, that's wrong"
Duh

[dusky surge]

i've already explained how ambush carno is inherently in combat with itself lol

it's BIZARRE how much people want this niche

an animal all about sprinting faster than everyone else, designed around a hunting style that revolves around waiting

i'm convinced it's all because of the cheetah

[slim dragon]

carno is the cheetah of the isle
They're both fast
It's like it's the same animal all the way

[dusky surge]

it's also funny because... the cheetah isn't even full ambush?

it very much is a pursuit predator as well

people seem to forget that cheetahs are small and built to literally blend in with the yellow savannah grass, and the carno is a 1.8 ton creature that towers over most of its prey, and is not just fast, but also BIG

[alpine plover]

Cheetah do complete ambushes they try to close the gap as much as possible, there are records where they don’t even run although they do is wait for the prey to come to them (in rare cases).

[dusky surge]

Anyway, point is, carno ain't cheetah

[alpine plover]

Ye

[dusky surge]

And the only reason I think carno is consistently made into an ambush hunter (despite being horribly suited for it) is cheetah existing

[alpine plover]

Also given the fact cheetahs are agile and carno isn’t..

[dusky surge]

I mean, the amount of differences in niche is astounding. People are just fixated on "fast predator"

[leaden remnant]

it's gonna be like that btw

can't just pounce the tip of the tail and expect it to work

[deft blaze]

I think we should let them tail ride again

[halcyon elk]

And I think you should be sent to tartarus

[leaden remnant]

not the tail riding 😭

[deft blaze]

But it was the peak of combat

Nothing was more exhilarating than it

[leaden remnant]

i hate that so much

[deft blaze]

But it was so engaging

[leaden remnant]

no it wasn't 😭

[deft blaze]

Literally how was it not

[leaden remnant]

it was just get nibbled to death by a juvie dryo as an adult rex

ass biting

[deft blaze]

Exactly

[leaden remnant]

literlaly get your ass beaten simulator

[deft blaze]

The rush of battle

It took a lot of skill to do it

[leaden remnant]

it was just bite ass till he dies

[deft blaze]

But you had to manoeuvre to that position and then hold it

[leaden remnant]

hold his ass 😭

[deft blaze]

Well you don’t want to lose your spot behind him

[leaden remnant]

you never want to stop biting ass 😭

oh my lord im gonna die im laughing so hard

help me