balance-feedback-discussion

[tropic horizon]

This was in like

A stream a while back

The speed probably isn’t accurate but the rest seems to be so

[primal heart]

Maybe it...just testing phase

300 normal attack is too broken

[tropic horizon]

Wait not 350

Im actually blind

So the alt attack does around 350 then

[halcyon elk]

Not really, diablo is meant to be scarily strong.

[halcyon elk]

And the charged alt would be doing more

[tropic horizon]

Oh boy I can’t wait for that

[primal heart]

But deino bite only 500...don't you think deino will cry？

[tropic horizon]

The average deino main cries a lot about most things let’s be honest

Not all deino mains but just

We all know that one deino player

[primal heart]

[tropic horizon]

So yeah Diablo is gonna be a menace to most small tiers and even mid tiers

So that’s incredible

[primal heart]

Yes, almost all current herbivores deal well with carno.
Carno out,we need bigger carnivore（not you,Rex）

[tropic horizon]

Not necessarily no

[halcyon elk]

Ironically it's threat would be small pack hunters.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah I can already see omnis tearing it apart with the slow af alt swing they showcased

Though that’s probably subject to change

[halcyon elk]

That's the charged alt

[distant torrent]

a herd of diablos making a circle formation to defend young against omnis and dilos or themselves sounds pretty epic ngl

a wall of sharp things to get impaled on

[halcyon elk]

We have concept art with them keeping albertos at bay

[distant torrent]

if they can’t run from albertos or allos then I certainly hope they can defend against them

[primal heart]

I think if you have eight teammates, the player is more likely to chase and bite the Albertos

[halcyon elk]

They definitely should

[distant torrent]

I genuinely hope all future large carnivores aren’t cannibals

the moment something becomes cannibal is the moment you’re going to see large sustainable megapacks

[halcyon elk]

Agreed

[primal heart]

But mixpacker still solve food problem

T Rex Mixpack with Triceratops...They can always do sustainable megapack if mixpacker want to.

[sick sage]

tf are mutations?

[tropic horizon]

Planned feature

[sick sage]

know wot they do?

[halcyon elk]

Essentially they help with survival. (Food drain, water drain, possible stamina, among other things)

[sick sage]

stamina seems like a bad idea

[halcyon elk]

Yea that's more diet related

But unlike diets. Mutations can pass on to the next dinosaur of that species

Like if you get to senior and die of old age. You can carry the mutations, at least that's the theory.

[sick sage]

seems unnecessarily complicated but so did gore and that worked out

[halcyon elk]

It essentially works as a way to make sure people are more survival oriented. Because if you die not of old age. You lose mutations

[sick sage]

fair

will u have like the choice to die of old age or just happens

[halcyon elk]

It's a choice

[sick sage]

sounds cool

[halcyon elk]

Here's a diagram to explain what I mean.

[sick sage]

cheers

[halcyon elk]

So what do you think?

[sick sage]

seems like growing weaker is the kind of thing you'd hate on paper but might work in game

[halcyon elk]

Yea, besides you wouldn't immediately become weaker.

And elder would make you even stronger

[sick sage]

yh might be cool one thing u cant say bout the isle devs is theyre not inventive

and ambitious

[halcyon elk]

A little too ambitious.

[sick sage]

yh might work out in the end. I'd 60/40 chance the game becomes great

[halcyon elk]

True

[grizzled anchor]

@nova otter Is it me or did they silently increased the stun timer? Before I could just run straight back to my tree if I missed, now its a death sentence :/

And its not like herra is that great ambushing anyway

[nova otter]

it was increased, herrera is currently next to unplayable rn with that stun. before i could slowly pick off dilos and omnis now leaving the tree is a death sentence

I have a whole essay of ideas and stuff for the feedback section but it is too big to post so imma be slowly posting it in sections

[grizzled anchor]

Why tho? And especially why do they keep nerfing things and not saying a word about it that enrages me the most... At this point let their community vote for the stats the dinos have and its better balanced than whatever they're doing lol

Theres 2 new playable one completely broken and stopping gameplay of their target for 5 minutes straight the other just able to scavenge and prey on smaller dinos. Ofcourse the second one needs the nerf like where is the logic?!

[nova otter]

yee ik its a pain, I want to play this game so badly but its almost painful to play as everything is so broken rn.

[grizzled anchor]

The devs are making one bad decision after the other. Every patch makes the game more horrible currently... it can hardly be called balancing at this point D:

[nova otter]

yeah, I am grateful for the ai fix tho, the devs that worked on that patch did a very good job!

[sick sage]

dilo buff gonna go hard next update

[grizzled anchor]

I wish Spiro servers wouldn't be so empty because that actually felt balanced. (And just running around gave me so much joy yesterday lol)

[grizzled anchor]

I mean it took them 3 days... every other game developer wouldve swapped back to the last stable version and then fix it instead of making one patch a day which didnt fix the problem. (Despite the fact that every other game developer would've tested patches before rolling them out lol)

[grizzled anchor]

If they really buff that thing I'll uninstall fr 😂

[nova otter]

honestly the best course of action rn would probably to be to revert the ai back to how it was in spiro (different areas spawn different ai when a player is near) and focus mainly on getting the last of the mechanics out and balancing the dinos that are already out

then once they have that foundation layed they can start to work on changing the ai and stuff around but rn the balancing is so busted its nearly unplayable

[grizzled anchor]

Thats exactly what I said multiple times in the feedback channels 😂 it would fix so many problems including the insane hotspots currently. But I feel like The Isle devs dont really care much about the communities opinion.

The evrima main branch feels like a huge horde testing since gateway released. Theres no testing done or VERY poorly as the frog patch proves 😂

[nova otter]

I dont think its the devs that dont care as if it was I wouldn't believe that anorak would be working on a patch till almost midnight but it more of feels like whoever is managing their priorities doesn't care

That and with all the hate and rage focused their way if they didn't care they would of just said f it and gave us all the middle finger pretty much but they haven't so they must care to a degree

[grizzled anchor]

You're probably right I've also discussed that in evrima-na with someone. I said its probably the lead developer not giving clear instructions so every dev kind of just has to improvise and hope it works...
Oh boy could The Isle be a great and successful game if under the right management

[grizzled anchor]

I mean the middle finger is basically that feedback channels are being ignored at this point. 🤔
Either they ignore it or bringing feedback suggestions up isn't welcome for the management.

Anyway what can be said for sure is that the person making the decisions are making a horrible job currently and should probably be replaced.

[nova otter]

yeah, i feel bad as the game has a lot of potential and it feels like its just getting stomped into the ground

[nova otter]

I would assume whoever doing the decision-making for their priorities is the person ignoring the feedback channels. That or the feedback they are getting doesn't align with what they personally want to see so they pretend it is not there.

[grizzled anchor]

I feel that. The potential this game has is crazy. But instead of using it they kinda go the opposite direction.
I'd totally believe every dev being frustrated looking at the state of the game and the feedback and then thinking about what couldve been achieved.

[nova otter]

yeah, would kinda be like seeing something you are passionate about and love slowly deteriorating before your eyes

[grizzled anchor]

The big question is if the person making the decisions is even playing the game himself. Im a developer myself even though I have no clue about game developing and I know too well that letting the devs be creative can improve the outcome so drastically. It doesn't feel like the devs have much freedom

[halcyon elk]

The devs do care about the community's opinion. But if they really want a system. They'll keep it.

[nova otter]

idk, I know Dondi and Anorak does. I played with dondi when the update for herrea first came out, pretty sure a dilo ate him and I saw anorak in a free admin server fighting with some people once so ik those 2 do

[grizzled anchor]

Are you sure its the devs themselves who want to keep the systems tho? Im not too sure about that Ive also researched some time ago about the behind the scenes of this game and that didnt sound like a nice place to work at honestly.

[grizzled anchor]

But everyone who plays the game for some time can easily tell what needs to be done to make the gameplay fun instead it feels like they limit the freedom the players have. Migrations are a good example of that since no herbivore can really decide where they want to go they have to stick to migration zones to not starve.

I think the overall communcation is a big problem of this game. Be it between devs internally or even between community and the devs. At this time there is no way to tell what is being worked on and what is on pause atm

[nova otter]

yeah, I think migration could be done but instead give them 2-3 options on where to go based on what diet they want. Idk tho, would have to look further into the migration system

[halcyon elk]

I have heard from punch, filipe, dondi, and other devs that they like the systems they made, and have said that they do need adjustments.

[halcyon elk]

The simple solution is to have multiple migrations to choose from at a time. Wanna go to the highlands? They got migration ATM so you can go. The swamp? They're also there too.

[nova otter]

yeah, that seems to be a theme for dino games. PoT and BoB is the same. makes it very painful

[grizzled anchor]

What you're saying is basically the old system. Ive read that they wanted to prevent hotspots with the migration system but as we see now that didnt work out

[halcyon elk]

Actually BoB is the opposite.

[grizzled anchor]

I mean in theory those systems aren't bad dont get me wrong. But they were not ready to be implemented yet imo. I think one of the biggest issues is the lack of testing when it comes to new systems.

[nova otter]

yeah something like this. could make it to where each species doesn't have its own migration zone aswell but instead they all share one of the 2-3 that are active around the map. then make it to where after a certian amount of time the migration zones all swap to a new area that has yet to be used

[grizzled anchor]

PoT updates have been very good though. I rarely see any complaints when a new update drops and much praise for what is being added. Im not really deep into the development of those games tho. I havent touched BoB yet and PoT is just not my type of game

[nova otter]

Is it now? I havent played it in a long time, granted I was also rather dead in the community aswell

[nova otter]

I play PoT as much as I play Isles and they are both good games. problem is that PoT has the same issues with balancing as in it either breaks a creature making it op or useless. PoT also has a much more toxic player base and the moderation of chat isn't the best.

[halcyon elk]

Yea, a lot of new systems were shut down because of initial disagreements

[grizzled anchor]

What I felt was a big difference between PoT and Isles balancing is that PoTs balancing problems are mainly focused on PvP while The Isle balancing is bad even looking at simple things like moving around or hunger/water drain.
I think they gotta rethink the way they're implementing things and especially improve their testing before putting it out for the public.

[halcyon elk]

Basically imagine if the new stamina system was immediately shut down because people disliked it.

[nova otter]

there is also the issues of there becoming a loud minority of people that ruin the game of the majority so they gotta be careful who they listen too as they could ruin the game for more people

[grizzled anchor]

I still think its horrible. It could be improved but every suggestion Ive seen to achieve that wasn't a part of the developing process of the stam system so far. I totally understand the reason behind it but they completely killed the fun of just existing with it at least for me.

[nova otter]

I think it would be good if they took more advantage for public stress tests aswell. could have a perminate testing branch that they push the updates to before the main one to gauge how people react to it

[grizzled anchor]

But aren't the feedback channels the best source to see which the majority agrees with? Of course theres some people screaming about things that the majority would dislike but those things get down voted so heavily that it shouldnt be taken into consideration from the start.

[grizzled anchor]

Exactly my thought. Testing isn't done properly. Gateway was only 2 weeks in public stress testing which isnt really long considering the amount of changes made from the previous version. People loved the map even with its unfinished edges but the new system were criticised and discussed heavily which was a big sign that its not ready for the main branch.

[nova otter]

yeah rn its ok but if they aren't careful it can become an issue to where they start to mainly listen to people like youtubers and people who scream in chat about stuff that is not an actual issue

[halcyon elk]

I mean as in imagine if people vetoed it before the devs could even think about how to fix the issues.

Like for instance decreasing hunger drain, or trot speeds. The community just goes "NO, NO CHANGE."

[nova otter]

yeah, and they could keep the test branch open so they could get contnual feedback for what they update and it would keep the issue of people getting bored of the long wait times for updates if they get to participate in the testing themselves

[grizzled anchor]

Fair enough. It was a big change so it took some time for people to accept the idea. But look at the state it is in now with how it completely ruins some dinos because it doesn't encourage their playstyle. Beipi and ptera is the best example for that imo. Beipi not being able to swim much anymore takes the purpose of a semi aquatic away. Ptera not being able to fly much is ridiculous to this day

[halcyon elk]

Or let's say the idea of elder and senior. People saying no because they like the PVP aspect of the game over everything else.

[halcyon elk]

Beipi can swim on the surface and crawl, and ptera will be getting slip streams and updraft for free incline and speed.

[grizzled anchor]

What? Hunger drain being adjusted has been wanted for so long now since its not fitting to the new stam. The combination makes the stam look even worse than it is

[nova otter]

yee but they shouldn't of changed the pt flying on the main branch until that was fully implimented.

[halcyon elk]

Tbh I agree. There's some things that need to be fixed.

[grizzled anchor]

Beipi cant really dive though thats what I dont get. It uses more stam slowly diving than running on land...
And Ive heard and seen the upcoming change for ptera but its not in yet so I dont get why they already implemented the stam for those systems?

[halcyon elk]

Or changed. Notably imo you should have a faster regen when your at higher levels of stam.

[nova otter]

agreed, I think the stamina rn would be fine if you decided to fully drain your stamina as you would be more exhausted after fully draining you stamina then say you drainig half of it

[halcyon elk]

Like from 70% I wouldn't mind getting to 100% in 15 seconds or so. But from 0% to 100% I don't mind waiting that long.

[grizzled anchor]

Todays birds can rest while gliding that couldve been a good thing to implement until their updraft system is in the game.
Im not a fan of the updraft idea overall though, once thats in ptera will probably not be one of the dinos I'll play. I havent tested it yet though so we will see I guess

[halcyon elk]

50% being probably 45 seconds maybe.

[nova otter]

im actually about to post a suggestion related to this

[halcyon elk]

Iirc someone asked kissen about this. And there is an issue of ptera being in the air permanently.

[grizzled anchor]

looking forward for what you've come up with. Theres definetly alot of possibilities to make ptera fun again

[grizzled anchor]

Where is the problem with ptera being in the air permanently? Its not like it can participate in ANY pvp its more of an observer

[halcyon elk]

Doesn't sound like an issue until you realize that ptera won't be attacked by anything unless they're getting water or landing.

[nova otter]

yeah, that would be a bit of an issue until they add more aerial creatures

[halcyon elk]

Not a lot of dinosaurs can attack directly upwards. Not saying that this is a bad idea I unironically suggested it myself.

[nova otter]

they should make it to where you can tilt your head back and bite while looking up to bite up like in PoT

[grizzled anchor]

Even considering this I dont see the problem in this. Ptera has always been a nuisance and observer thats all. Very rarely youve seen it as a hatchling thief but with nesting being basically useless rn that not a thing too.

[halcyon elk]

Or alt attacks

[nova otter]

ye

[grizzled anchor]

Ive seen that some dinos already got the directional attack at least the ones able to jump. Ive noticed its a problem for alot of other tho the pteros are the best way to notice that 😄

[nova otter]

yee, cera is a pain to kill them on due to how low its attack box is but ik omni can bite upwards

[halcyon elk]

Tho tbh I wouldn't mind if they did add the regen. I would suggest that it's much slower than normal resting.

[nova otter]

dondi actually said the reason to bite upwards was to fufill our ptera catching dreams in a stream xD

[halcyon elk]

Also apparently the devs may be doing this percentage based Stam regen which is just. THANK YOU.

[nova otter]

this timer sucks for balance feed back. have about 10 more pharagraphs to post

[nova otter]

oo that would be cool to see

[halcyon elk]

Idk if it's true or not

[halcyon elk]

IT IS. SIR DON MENTIONED IT.

[grizzled anchor]

The pteros hitbox is kinda playing into that too theyre so high above you and still hit you with their tiny little beaks.

[nova otter]

yay popping into a QA server to see whats going on

[nova otter]

xD the dino lord dondi

[halcyon elk]

AND IF HIGH STAMINA. YOU COULD TROT AND GAIN STAMINA.

[nova otter]

that would be cool, should release it into a test branch first tho, would hate to have it break the game again

time to be an annoying galli

[halcyon elk]

I love gallimimus

[nova otter]

yee I am on the QA server rn, just wanna observe what is popping,

[grizzled anchor]

I sure hope they dont make stam regen generalised. A raptor for example should be able to regen stam trotting even if its on low stam. Might be slower on low stam but it needs stam for everything it does and has always been hit and run.
They gotta tweak those values to fit the playstyle of the dino which also encourages to play the dino like intended.

[nova otter]

yeah, honestly I wouldn't mind it to be generalized for the moment just to fix the system but in the future that would be nice

[dusky surge]

@solid imp considering the fact hypsi is a confirmed arboreal, it should be able to fall from even greater heights than herrera and go unscathed

Hell, if it were up to me, I’d go the squirrel route and grant hypsi immunity to fall damage

[solid imp]

yeah iv heard it will be able to climb one day but i doubt its being worked on any time soon so i thought in the meantime it might as well get some good resistance to shatterd ankles

[dusky surge]

They’ve confirmed that now that Herrera is in, they’ll be working on hypsi climb

[solid imp]

alright then

thats what i like to hear

ig its still valid for troodon lol

[dusky surge]

IDK if Troo needs to be able to fall from that high

But a higher fall damage resistance wouldn’t be bad

[keen plover]

dryo + pachy need a fall res buff

[dusky surge]

Herrera and hypsi are both encouraged to get ridiculously high up

Pachy suffers the most from fall damage imho

Because it’s ability sends it hurtling forward with zero control, and puts it slightly airborne

[keen plover]

Yeah. Annoyed how easy it is to break your leg on this map with ram

[dusky surge]

It was easy on Spiro centre lol

It’s not a map issue, it’s always been pachy

[keen plover]

yeah lol

Pachy ram is great on flat maps which is sad

[dusky surge]

It should be able to climb up and shove people off large surfaces imho

[keen plover]

My biggest issue with this game is how useless attacks are when faced with an incline

well not my biggest issue lol but yeah

tail slam? useless

ram? pounce? same result

Can't go up at all

[nova otter]

would be cool to be able to look up and have your omni do a giant jump up than latch for the upcoming things like rex, make it easier to latch its side

[vague pawn]

Ngl troodon needs a fall res buff

[cobalt dagger]

I have no other context and haven't read anything else but, in the past, that's how my ptera gameplay was. I would rest and eat on cliffs where no one could get me, and only peck jumping fish so deinos couldn't snap me. I only died when I drank water.

Nowadays the lack of fish makes me have to eat dead bodies and then I die when I am doing thattoo

[dusky surge]

@tight niche Fracture isn’t chance based in EVRIMA, it’s damage based. Every limb has a unique amount of “blunt health” that attacks like pachy’s headbutt can reduce

[tight niche]

Umm idk it seems really buggy if it is

[dusky surge]

You do more damage (and blunt damage) with a fully charged ram. It might feel inconsistent because sometimes you’re using uncharged rams

[tight niche]

whats a "fully charged ram"

[dusky surge]

When your pachy stands upright while holding RMB

When you release, it will do more damage, stun and blunt damage

A tap ram (when you just press RMB before your pachy stands upright) will do less

[tight niche]

how much more you talkin

[keen plover]

There's only 2 states.
Tap ram - 75n iirc
Charged ram - 125n~

Pachy of old required you to hold the ram to ramp up the damage

but that has been gone for a long time

[forest pivot]

put teno on dilo's diet

fuuuu

[latent bay]

Hell it's even butchering one in the art why isn't it on Dilo's diet

[cobalt dagger]

If dilo gets nerfed, will it still be able to 1 v 1 a teno?

[tall bronze]

Depends on how it gets nerfed

[tropic horizon]

Probably not

I think the teno buff alone has made the match up way easier for Teno

[cobalt dagger]

The reason I ask is since they are saying teno should be on dilo's diet, because of how easy it is for a dilo to kill one

But that may (or may not) change

However, maybe it should be on dilo's diet, simply so that it can eat dead ones. I mean, deino is on omni's diet.

I assume that's for scavenging purposes.

I suppose it might find the rare baby deino.

But that really applies to everything, after all a dilo could find a baby teno and if 'raptors hunting baby deinos' is enough reason for deino to be on raptor's diet, then surely that would apply to teno being on dilo's diet.

Honestly, I don't get why pachy is on dilo's diet but not raptor/other carnivores

Troodon is on most carnivore's diets but not dilo's

Dilo's diet is weird

I like that it has crabs and sea turtles in there though, makes it feel unique

Like, it really gives them a reason to be near the ocean.

I love the idea of different creatures belonging to a 'biome,' I don't want them trapped there but letting them benefit from being there (dilos eating sea turtles) is just the sort of thing I like to see to encourage them to enjoy the beach every now and again

[scarlet onyx]

The idea of species specific nutrients I think just needs to go. Anything can hunt/kill anything when it's young enough, the current system doesn't incentivize hunting preference at all, it's an afterthought once basic stomach and water needs have been filled because unspoiled carni food can be so hard to come by in normal circumstances and with how stressed hunger drain is. Now that organs have been HARSHly nerfed, it's even more of a problem.

Every species should correlate to a specific nutrient for everyone imo. The preference to hunt one or the other should ONLY be down to viability and specialization to hunt that specific thing. The system we have now is outdated and doesn't work

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah I think that would be nice.

We kinda have that, everyone that eats cera sees it as dots and everyone that eats carno sees it as S.

I'd like there to be a carnivore who gives //, probably dilo because there's so many of them. Hypsi, beipi, dryo, galli, and stego, give // most of the time but... Hypsi is too small to give most things any reasonable //, which is the same issue with beipi and in some ways dryo, and very few people ever play these things so they're pretty rare. Galli is less rare but still kinda rare and also FAST and also not much food since it's so light,
Stego, you'd have to find a baby, stego itself isn't really approachable.

We don't have any good // source.

[grizzled anchor]

@jaunty jetty 30mins-1 hours is a bit much but there was a respawn timer on spiro I hope it will be back on gateway its definetly much needed. (And would probably help with stopping the hotspots)

[jaunty jetty]

I meant 30-1hour for that spawn location, they can still respawn elsewhere. I still thing the 30m-1h time limit is good.

[grizzled anchor]

Its too long in my opinion. It was like 5 minutes on Spiro if I remember correctly. I think 10 minutes would be the maximum that I would be okay with. I guess we just have different opinions about the time. But I guess any time would be better than no timer at all 😄

[jaunty jetty]

The whole point is so a group wouldnt take advantage of it. If it was less than 30mins then they'd still be able to wait and then reapply the bleed. So no it should encourage preventing urself from dying and spawning else where when u do.

Currently theres so many mixpackers of 5+ that a 5min-10min timer wouldn't do anything.

[grizzled anchor]

I feel like even if abused a baby every 10 minutes would hardly make a difference.
They should just make it so the bleed rate drops after time and a baby would be able to keep the bleed up but its bleed rate isnt nearly high enough to be a threat.
Whats more abusable without the timer is the dilo venom tho since it has venom from the start and can envenomate everything even an 8 tons croc.

I just think that more than 10 minutes would be waaay to punishing for a death, and imagine youre playing with friends, you die and then have to either wait 30 minutes to join back or have to run across the map.
5-10 minutes would be enough to make a difference but not enough to feel punishing to the point where people just go offline if they die.

[distant torrent]

honestly I say get rid of picked spawn points altogether. just get rid of them and have people spawn relatively close to their migration

[grizzled anchor]

While I understand the thought behind it I wouldn't like that tbh. Having the choices of where to spawn gives you more opportunities to decide how and where to play. I already feel like migrations are limiting the free will of herbivores waay to much.

[distant torrent]

they do which is why I heavily support a mixture of migrations and Spiro’s food spawning system

people like to poke fun at Spiro but it did get one thing right lol

it allowed herbivores to more freely choose where they wanted to go which genuinely made it a lot more fun

[graceful ice]

Yeah I mean tbh I preferred being able to scoot around the map all the time for whatever food I wanted

[golden coral]

@leaden remnant You claim omni gets oneshot, then proceed to count a number of non oneshots... Maybe reconsider that argument. Also omni pounce does quite a lot of bleed, so no idea where you're getting the "does no bleed" from. Even the damage is more or less decent. And I think you oneshot adult troodons, don't they come in at 60 in weight while omni bite is 65? (could be wrong there though).

[cosmic pelican]

Omni can 1 shot troodon yeah.

Technically it can also 1 shot anything under its weight with pounce

[golden coral]

Also should mention I'm pretty sure pin on dryo and herrera kills them in one go too, but again, could be wrong there

[cosmic pelican]

1 full pin even kills omnis

[golden coral]

So yeah... a bit of a strange feedback that one :D

[cosmic pelican]

8 omnis not being able to kill a cera is just skill issue, at that point it dies to just pounce dmg

[leaden remnant]

i don't actually mean getting 1 shot, but with 1 shot you reconsider the entire fight, also what bleed does pounce even do there's a reason why nobody uses it, and it's not just the bugs, it's that you can pounce a dino for 3 mins straight and nothing will come out of it

[cosmic pelican]

1 big pounce on a dilo will pretty much bleed it out completely if it keeps moving

[leaden remnant]

if you're an utah main you know that everything bullies you, you gotta resort to left click attack and that simply does no damage, that's why you need 4 utahs to try and kill a cera and even then, if he knows what he's doing, just leave it be

[cosmic pelican]

Cera is meant to counter omni though

God forbid it has a bad matchup

[leaden remnant]

it's fine that it may be meant to do whatever, but what it's not normal is that every single dino bullies utah so much that it's almost useless to play

[golden coral]

If you don't mean it, then maybe use a different word. You know, to be accurate to what you're trying to say. Pounce does lethal bleed, that's a fact. But bleed is overtime effect, not a direct killing method.

[cosmic pelican]

Ive played omni a lot since the new changes, and it definetly does not feel like a pushover

[eternal oak]

im pretty sure that if you are playing omni your first thought should be "not getting hit"

[leaden remnant]

i don't know if y'all have played utah or not, if you have you will know that it's herrera gameplay, always on high spots as anything just destroys you with 1 hit, and with this lag you're gonna get hit

[golden coral]

So yes, you can pounce them for a minute, and they still live for a few minutes, but they are "already dead" as it were, it just takes a bit to catch up. Though a full pounce for an entire minute would kill a fair few targets with sheer damage first

But to claim pounce does no bleed is very odd, when it's one of the most damaging attacks bleed wise

[leaden remnant]

nah he starts healing the bleed and you gotta keep pouncing and hitting, and when you make a mistake you pay it with your life

the most hilarious fight i've ever had was as an adult troodon in which a 100% utah bit me and he didn't even kill me, not even close, and in the end he had to run because 4 venom pounces were enough to deter mr utah from attacking me

[cosmic pelican]

You got lucky there, probably a tailhit

[leaden remnant]

troodon and utah are just the same thing, utah is just a lil bigger, anything can just destroy you; teno tail slam and kick kills you, stego tail attack kills you, a pachy bonk breaks your head/body and forces you to run, carno ram puts you at 1hp, a cera charge puts you at fast orange, anything with 1 good landed hit takes away over half your health while you gotta bite em from 30-150 times to kill it, smh

[golden coral]

And you can in almost all cases juke and avoid being hit, you're very fast and agile

[leaden remnant]

most of the cases you can easily dodge any attack for over 5 minutes, it's not difficult, but if the person has any sense of pattern recognition you are dead

[eternal oak]

i wouldnt go in to bite a cera if its charging its bite...

[golden coral]

Maybe if you're going at it solo, but even then you can change up your behaviour

[leaden remnant]

do u really think im not in a 6 adult pack at all times

[golden coral]

I've practiced with omni players at times, and that was usually the main criticism, that they always tried the same thing. So change things up, to avoid being easily predicted

[leaden remnant]

good sir do you really think i go and attack the tail all the time

no i try to make my prey insane by attacking it everywhere i can and trying to bleed it out or killing by raw damage, but the concern here is that while you gotta bite your prey an insane amount of times, only 1-3 hits from it are enough to either force you out or kill you

... which is why a skilled cera has no issue against a skilled 4 utah pack

[eternal oak]

raptors should NOT be considering fighting a cera

[leaden remnant]

my point is, utah is paper, it's a bigger troodon, it resists no damage, feels like every dino has a x10 damage multiplier on utah while it does no damage whatsoever

you do realize that with the current dinos you HAVE to kill a cera

or a carno or a teno/stego

you can't survive on herreras

you're too big, you gotta feed a whole pack, you can't survive on scavenging or killing herreras, you must go for bigger prey

[eternal oak]

tenos and stegos are kinda clunky. but very common. you can in fact take them out. especially with more raptors. carno is just kinda weird...

especially with multiple raptors. tenos would be a great meal

and enough patience will allow you to kill a stego

[leaden remnant]

tenos would make a hell of a meal if they didn't kill you in 1 second

[eternal oak]

dont. get. hit.

[golden coral]

I don't think anything, I'm just pointing out that if the argument was "recognition" then there are ways to counter that too, and so on. If the argument is "I die too easily" then the counter is to use your agility and bait attacks. And so on.

[leaden remnant]

you will get hit, there's no other way around

[eternal oak]

not much they can do against ya if you pounce one

especially with multiple raptors

[golden coral]

It can die, you just need to get over the bleed resistance via bites, and then pounce.

Carno should be easier to take out again now that it can't point blank charge and knock you over

[leaden remnant]

at that point you are all dead

[eternal oak]

if you get hit yes

but as a raptor you are so unbelievably agile

[leaden remnant]

i know that you gotta be agile and bait attacks, it's the only thing i do after all, but as i said any mid dino can deal with you so easily it's unreal

agility helps a lot, but again utah is paper trying to cut open a rock

actually killing smth like a teno takes around 10-20 minutes of bleeding it out, the teno has to be pretty damn bad to not hit you after all that time

[thin mantle]

I mean

[eternal oak]

well. cera and carno can deal with you very easily... or well... carno is kinda weird rn... but still

[thin mantle]

There’s a reason why larger animals are harder to kill and have an easier time dealing with you

Because they’re bigger and slower

Not sure what the issue with them expressing relative ease in dispatching your advances

[eternal oak]

cera is just an absolute tank and also very agile.

but its slow...

[golden coral]

Yeah, if you're solo. If you're a pack of 4, that teno would struggle quite a bit more with you from my experience at least.

[leaden remnant]

only if the teno is very bad

imma tell yall my experience

[thin mantle]

The teno had to be exceptionally good to survive 3 competent raptors

Let alone 4

[leaden remnant]

yesterday i saw a very good carno, very skilled, i am very skilled as well so i kept pouncing and biting, but then i committed a single mistake, only 1 small mistake, a bad approach, and boom im at red and i have to run for my life

[leaden remnant]

no you just need to know when to attack

[thin mantle]

You make that sound easy

[leaden remnant]

it is easy

[thin mantle]

If you miss time the attack you get pounced

[leaden remnant]

1-2 hits and the utah is gone

well landed hits

[thin mantle]

2-3 pounces and the teno dies

[leaden remnant]

if you do tail bites good luck

ive pounced tenos over 10 times and still alive, so no

and im talking about long pounces

[thin mantle]

Then you’re tap pouncing or they’re legitimately hacking

[leaden remnant]

5 second ones

[thin mantle]

Or you’re not keeping them engaged

[leaden remnant]

the strat is very simple

[thin mantle]

Because a teno doesn’t have the blood pool to survive what is essentially 700dmg worth if the highest bleed attack in the game

[leaden remnant]

make it run after you because then you can easily bait and bite, get a bit away and then pounce, then while it's stationary keep it trying to desperately survive

[eternal oak]

carnos should be absolute nightmare fuel for raptors

[leaden remnant]

sounds easy

[thin mantle]

Like 10 5 seconds pounces is enough to kill a full grown stego let alone an animal a 5th of its size

[leaden remnant]

but no you commit 1 mistake and you're dead while the entire fight was a mistake from the teno's part

[thin mantle]

Yes

[leaden remnant]

i don't want this to be fair, it shouldn't be fair for raptors

[thin mantle]

What’s the issue with that

[leaden remnant]

i don't want it to be fair, i just want to be able to survive more than 2 well landed hits

[thin mantle]

Why you’re fighting an animal that weighs as much as 4 of your combined

[leaden remnant]

that a whole pack can't do anything against a somewhat skilled (insert dino here)

[thin mantle]

Like animals that are YOUR size can 2 shot you

[leaden remnant]

the only exception is a solo pachy, 4 utahs easily deal with one

[thin mantle]

2 should consider that free food tbh

[leaden remnant]

they tend to run a lot so bleeding out is not an issue there

if he doesn't know what he's doing i can kill him myself, pachies are my personal favorite

it only takes me 2-5 minutes of biting and pouncing to bleed it out

[thin mantle]

I feel like we just have a drastic disconnect in how we perceive omnis skill ceiling because this kind of testimony makes no sense to me

[leaden remnant]

i feel like that as well ngl

[thin mantle]

I haven’t struggled against tenos in groups of 2 or more since update 3

Because they got hit pretty hard in 4, and every subsequent update has made them far easier to deal with

[golden coral]

So, 1v1, when it should be about 3 omnis for a carno?

[leaden remnant]

it actually was a 3v1

my packmates were there ballin out of stam while i kept him engaged

[thin mantle]

Again I have literally no clue what the issue is with you nearly dying when making a mistake dueling an animal 4+ times your size

[leaden remnant]

realistically it's perfectly fine

[thin mantle]

Balance wise as well

[golden coral]

Get better packmates xD But then the point was that yeah, you had to bail after getting a hit, that's fair when you can and should spread those hits over multiple pack members, sort of

[thin mantle]

Go for a dilo that’s a free kill for you

Pachy can be soloed

[leaden remnant]

nuh uh

[thin mantle]

Ironically so can stego lmao

[leaden remnant]

a dilo can land a hit on you and wooo venom

cant see anything oorah

[thin mantle]

Your agility advantage is absurd and one pounce can take them down

[leaden remnant]

a pachy can be soloed

you can't pounce with these nerfs

[thin mantle]

You seem to have quite the issue of tanking hits on an animal who’s playstyle revolves around never taking damage

[leaden remnant]

pouncing is a memory, you simply can't pounce anymore

[golden coral]

Anyway, we can argue the amount of skill and how difficult killing x or y as omni is, but the feedback is so very off. While I get your point, I disagree with the usage of the term "one shot", and your claim that pounce does no bleed is just wrong. Even damage is decent on pounce, last I checked, and bleed is quite lethal, even if you have to hold on now to get it, rather than tap pounce.

[golden coral]

Dilo venom is a bit overtuned perhaps

[thin mantle]

Pouncing from specific angles and not being able to land a pounce from all sides has been a necessary change for ages

Ever since it was removed in U3.75

Ever since then omnis only had disadvantages matchups when other creatures are statistically broken

[leaden remnant]

i understand that you should avoid damage as much as you can, but literally a well landed hit from almost any dino causes you too much damage, gotta wait 20 mins to be back on track again

[eternal oak]

"well landed"

of course a well landed hit would hurt

[thin mantle]

Good for them, you’re a glass canon and they outplayed you

[leaden remnant]

you only need to be hit once to be out of the fight with a once again well landed hit

[thin mantle]

Same applies to something like teno

[leaden remnant]

yeah and utah shouldn't just be a very thin glass panel

[thin mantle]

Once you’ve been pounced you cannot sprint for example

Your stamina economy won’t allow it, and it’s not like you can escape anything

[thin mantle]

Why not that’s its entire design

[eternal oak]

in your feedback you said it could survive 3 bites from a carno

[thin mantle]

We’d have to giganerf it’s damage output to justify making it tanker

[leaden remnant]

pretty sure i said 3 bites killed it

[eternal oak]

you said after the second bite you were at 1% hp

oh wait

crap

[leaden remnant]

because it's impossible to play with how slow health regens

[thin mantle]

This is a problem not unique to Omni, actually amongst the roster Omni is in a favorable spot

[eternal oak]

i mean even then after the first bite you can run off and heal

[thin mantle]

Because it can escape most if not all engagements with just running away

[leaden remnant]

no you take 10 mins to heal

[thin mantle]

Pachy teno stego etc can’t do this they win the fight or they die

[eternal oak]

thats when your raptor buddies take over

[leaden remnant]

they also took 1 alt bite they need to run

[thin mantle]

It doesn’t take Omni any longer to regenerate HP

[thin mantle]

So don’t get hit

[eternal oak]

and by the time they have taken a hit you would be healed decently

[thin mantle]

If you’re getting hit it’s because you’re making mistakes

Or you aren’t sufficiently baiting as a group

And btw

Healing during combat is a commodity

[leaden remnant]

way easier said than done

[thin mantle]

Most creatures can’t do that because they aren’t fast enough to disengage

So Omni being able to regen at ALL is a benefit most creatures can’t claim

[thin mantle]

Exactly, Omni isn’t supposed to be easy

[leaden remnant]

you have to bite many times to keep bleed going, eventually you'll get hit

and only a single hit is enough to take you out of the fight

[thin mantle]

You’re fighting creatures WAY bigger than yourself there’s nothing about this that’s supposed to be fair on an individual basis

[eternal oak]

pouncing is always a good alternative for bleed

[leaden remnant]

it shouldn't be barely possible to play

everything preys on you for a reason

[thin mantle]

Major skill issue

Considering how many advantages the animal has by comparison

[leaden remnant]

major skill issue isn't an answer

[thin mantle]

At this point it can’t be anything else

[eternal oak]

that reason being. the raptors walk up infront of you... the amount of times that has happened to me is absurd...

[thin mantle]

I and many others don’t struggle nearly as much as you’re saying Omni is to play

[leaden remnant]

the advantages are agility, dipping from a bad fight, jumping

which, mind you, are actually pretty damn nice

but because everything can maul an entire pack with ease, it doesn't go well for an utah

[thin mantle]

That’s literally just not true

[leaden remnant]

thinking that you'll have 4 great packmates is a dream, not a reality

it doesn't happen, your packmates usually suck and you can't carry a whole teno fight yourself

[thin mantle]

They don’t even need to be that good if they’re simply distracting you can carry if you’re good enough

[eternal oak]

meat shields

[leaden remnant]

meat shields when they can only tank 1 hit, yes

[eternal oak]

yeah. meat shields

[thin mantle]

Solo Troodon and Omni are basically all I’ve been playing this last couple updates precisely because this playstyle is very much possible

[eternal oak]

they can tank the hit which allows an opening for you

[thin mantle]

You can carry almost any 1v1 on Omni it has so many tools to ensure this

It’s uniquely capable of it actually

[leaden remnant]

only one hit isn't enough

[thin mantle]

Because it has the most effective hunting mechanic for bridging gaps in size in the entire game

[eternal oak]

they still shouldnt be trying to get hit but even if they do its still an opening

[leaden remnant]

needa land many, pounce may do a lotta bleed as you're saying but eventually the dino in question is gonna heal it and you gotta bite or pounce again

[thin mantle]

You need to land 3-4 on anything below 2k kilos to bleed it out under 10 minutes

You don’t need to land that many hits

Bleed won’t heal even at a stand still unless you give the target a minute or more to basically stand still

You’re making it sound far more grueling than it realistically is

Bleed is a system that’s very easy to abuse

[leaden remnant]

you're, in all honestly, making it sound far more easy than it really is

first you gotta find a pack

[thin mantle]

I’m just telling you numerically how many hits you need to land to succeed

[leaden remnant]

you always find one, but 4 adults? meh not that easy

[thin mantle]

I’m simply correct I’m not even saying it’s all that easy

And you can do everything I just listed by yourself

You just have to be good enough

[leaden remnant]

being good enough isn't enough

you have to be very good and your prey has to be very bad

[eternal oak]

not necessarily

[leaden remnant]

and alone, which, mind you, is just not happening

yea he has to fall for 20+ baits

[thin mantle]

Idk I guess everyone I play against in this game is just the worst players imaginable

Must be getting perpetually lucky

[dusky surge]

i find omni most satisfying when it's competently difficult, which it hasn't been for many updates now since the introduction of magnet pounce. Current omni actually feels good, and in a 2v1, can take on even tenos

[thin mantle]

Realistically it’s moreso around 10

[leaden remnant]

i guess im perpetually unlucky then

because nothing goes as you say it

in a silver plate with no issues

the teno is probably gonna land a lag hit which is enough to say omalord gotta keep this a lil lower

[eternal oak]

you know, you claim to be "skilled" have you considered that isnt the case?

[thin mantle]

Luck has nothing to do with the amount of hits it requires to kill something

That was my primary clarification, so idk what you’re referencing here

[leaden remnant]

yes i have

and it's not the case

[thin mantle]

You were saying it requires ten when it demonstrably doesn’t both through testing and practical experience

[eternal oak]

you sure about that buddy?

[leaden remnant]

gotta rely on my teammates to do anything, and typically they ain't gonna succeed at doing much

[thin mantle]

It objectively requires less pounces that 50 seconds of pouncing

[dusky surge]

buffing omniraptor because of lag hits means we can buff deino because sometimes a prey item lags out of its mouth

[thin mantle]

We can also buff every animal in the game that requires timing

[leaden remnant]

do you really think i just suggested all that because of lag

[thin mantle]

So all of them

[leaden remnant]

you ain't getting 50 seconds of pouncing

[dusky surge]

i mean, you are suggesting it because your glass cannon bleed machine animal is a glass cannon bleed machine animal

[thin mantle]

You said it takes 10 pounces at least at 5 seconds a pounce to bleed a teno to death

That’s your words not mine

[leaden remnant]

yeah and i also said it's not happening

[dusky surge]

the whole point of omni is to get hit and realise quickly why it doesn't like having that happen

[thin mantle]

I’m telling you those metrics are probably untrue

[leaden remnant]

utah cycle:

[thin mantle]

And numerous tests have been conducted to achieve these metrics

Like the optimized hunting methodology to kill a teno is 3-4 pounces at 4-6 seconds a piece and to prevent it from AFKing, it’ll die in under 10 minutes

You need to re-up bleed maybe twice?

Like we have this down to a science

[leaden remnant]

grow, a carno charges you and you die while at 50%, grow again, make it to 100%, go fight a teno, his teammate arrives so you gotta get the hell outta there, find a carno, pick a fight, 1 of your pack member dies, you keep going, oops alt bite get outta there, 20 mins to heal, scavenge, see a cera, get away, you find a pachy, you kill it, 2 carnos come and your entire pack is dead, you're alone, you die

[dusky surge]

i play omni, a lot. I've played it since I first starting playing. What my most satisfying hunts were were against tenontosaurus when literally two tailslams would nuke you and put you to the select screen, because then you had to fully utilise teamwork, agility, skill and timing to turn this thing into meat. The whole point is, you are using the fact that you are the simultaneously one of the fastest and most agile animals in the entire game to ensure that you never get hit and you can always control your engagement

It's why omni's potential for killing is essentially limitless with skill

[leaden remnant]

any dinosaur who knows what he's doing won't just stand there taking hits

[thin mantle]

And that was back when teno actually stunned the things it hit

[eternal oak]

no way! people dont like taking damage!

[leaden remnant]

a good defense is a good attack, it will take any chance it can to attack you, and a hit will rip you off and force you out

[thin mantle]

Why would you imply that the combatants in my examples are AFK at their monitor, ofcourse they’re fighting back that’s just bad faith interpretation

[dusky surge]

which is good, you want them to attack, so they make an opening

dodge, create an opening, someone else strikes

or you strike

[leaden remnant]

because you make it look like they're standing there tryna defend themselves

[dusky surge]

people have figured out how to 1v1 ceratos as omnis using only bites

[thin mantle]

Point me to where I’ve done that

[leaden remnant]

the entire time

[thin mantle]

Would love an example

[leaden remnant]

because an utah pack successfully bleeding a teno out with pounces and stuff is a dream

[thin mantle]

I think I’ve never once said that these tactics only work on bad players

[leaden remnant]

is it possible? definetely

is it gonna happen? maybe...? small chance

[dusky surge]

i've done it several times so it's a very real dream

[thin mantle]

Skill issue, I can literally do this alone unless the teno is exceptional

And I shouldn’t be able to do this to an exceptional teno

Teno is an animal that shouldn’t really be a reasonable hunt if it’s a really good player to most

If that weren’t the case teno wouldn’t be playable

[leaden remnant]

the entire point of my suggestion is that utah requires far too much skill than it should

all of my packs are decimated

[eternal oak]

maybe you just lack that skill

[leaden remnant]

and i am always alone because of that

i go and murk a pachy, etc, a cera comes and contests it, i fight it to the point where it says okay okay im out

and then another carno comes, gotta leave

i find another pack, we go hunt, they all die to 2 hits

[thin mantle]

And the only examples of non viable 1v1s you’ve provided is that of creatures far larger than you that can’t disengage when you attack them save for Carno, all of this bizarrely ignoring the fact that Utah is meant to be a disproportionately difficult animal to play because of its incomparable range of viable prey items

[eternal oak]

hide the body in a bush - bushes stop scent and the cera wont find it as easily

[dusky surge]

so your options are

• lower omni's overall killing potential but increase its skill to reduce the fact that it is one of the most potent killers in the game in order to make it more inviting for new players
• buff it to the moon and let everyone suffer beneath it

[leaden remnant]

a body that feeds you is definetely not able to be dragged

[thin mantle]

You being capable of soloing a Cerato to the point of retreat is prooof enough that Omni is far from underpowered

[thin mantle]

You can feed yourself off a dryo

[leaden remnant]

i only solo it to the point of him saying okay man im out goodbye, not killing it

both things are very different

because he's coming after me, not me going after him

[eternal oak]

IT LEAVES?!

[thin mantle]

You literally BTFO’d one of your hardest counters….

[dusky surge]

omni can kill a cerato solo with bites in 2 minutes lol

[thin mantle]

Mhm, as it can with most, it’s got really good bleed

[dusky surge]

also being able to scare off a MUCH larger predator is pretty indicative of omni's sheer terror

[thin mantle]

An animal 3 times your weight

[leaden remnant]

im perfectly aware, unfortunately my packmates won't

[sour ice]

we have a hacker on EU 3 mini dino kill all one shoot.......

[leaden remnant]

utah SHOULD require skill

but not INMENSE skill as to survive for over 3 hours

[thin mantle]

It’s an animal triple your size and you seem to treat getting it to run away from you as evidence that Omni isn’t strong enough

I don’t get it

[eternal oak]

my guy. you sent your biggest op runnin

[leaden remnant]

honestly i think i've made it a lil confusing

[thin mantle]

Like no other animal in the roster can do this

[leaden remnant]

hold on chat let me give my point without confusion i think ive said everything wrong hold on

[thin mantle]

Teno can’t even send cerato’s running because if a Cerato knows how vomit works the teno is in major trouble

[thin mantle]

Alright go for it

[dusky surge]

omni requires minimal skill to survive. Low hunger and thirst drain rates, a wide diet and a small size mean it can comfortably live off AI and scavenging. This is omni's skill floor

omni can also competently take on apexes and win. This is its skill ceiling

[thin mantle]

Well tbf, it's skill ceiling is moreso about taking on ceratos carnos and tenos, stegos are easier than those

[eternal oak]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-mr-bean-bored-waiting-gif-16962141

[dusky surge]

omni is a unique animal where it actually has a significant gap between its skill floor and ceiling

except for some goddamn reason people just assume it should shred anything that enters its FOV and not actually engage with said skill

[eternal oak]

the amount of times raptors walk up to me and just dont do anything is absurd

[thin mantle]

As a comparison to that range, it's viable target range is similarly just as vast

Like you can take on WAY more than most predators can

[dusky surge]

the thing is, a group of coordinated, skilled raptors is literally one of the scariest things in the game

a single pounce and there goes your ability to regen stam or hide, and if multiple pounce you at once, it's REALLY bad with how bucking works with multiple pouncers

[leaden remnant]

my point is that utah requires far more skill than most people can even hope of ever having, the way to in my opinion solve entire packs being obliterated by a single solo dino which you are obligated to kill in order to survive is making it resist more and do more raw damage, you gotta munch a fresh spawned cera 3 times to kill it, which just shows how lil damage it does, surely it's a bleeder but with those jaws, man, it's capable of way more

utah rn: requires inmense skill to survive for over 1 hour and a half
how utah could be more "viable": requires average-above average skill to survive for over 1 hour and a half

im basing all of this from what my packmates always die to, which is small mistakes that cost them their life, should it be like that? a mistake should be punishing, not deadly

realistically dying to a mistake is completely normal, but realistically you also throw your prey off to the ground and bleed it to death on the ground, so an utah should be able to take some more damage, not really close to a cera or a carno, but not die to 2-3 nice hits

[eternal oak]

yeah... thats what youve been saying...

[dusky surge]

you're under the impression that omni RELIES on big game hunting to survive. This is not true. It is comfortable with AI or scavenging

omni's skill floor is low

[thin mantle]

The first issue here is assuming omni must hunt large game to survive, it can easily survive off of AI and smaller animals without issue.

You're examining the peak of utahs skill expression as if it's meant to be the average when it absolutely isn't

[leaden remnant]

depends on your pack

[dusky surge]

as a small game hunter/scav, it literally just vibes

[thin mantle]

IF your pack is so large that AI can't feed you you're numbering over 5

At least

[eternal oak]

which makes it even funnier when they just run up to you for no damn reason. like seriously they are like a friggin skyrim npc

[dusky surge]

well, if you have a pack, you should go after large game, but then also assume your pack knows how to dodge

[thin mantle]

one boar feeds 2

[leaden remnant]

and numbering over 5 is the way to survive, otherwise you're dead

[coarse blaze]

I love how omni went from - okay-ish previously on Spiro, it was still really strong with it's tap-pouncing and rear/front pounce exploiting, didn't take much skill - To incredibly strong, no skill, kill genuinely anything and everything it sees solo last major update to - needing to actually think to play well.

I get the pounce issue currently but it's not a hitbox issue, it's a dsync issue which is just a server thing. I think needing to pounce from the side is far better, tap-bleeding being removed was a Godsent and now it just can't stay latched for years to bleed anything out.

[dusky surge]

many omnis often forget the fact that they do indeed have the A and D keys available at any time

Shift + W as omni will get you killed basically always

[eternal oak]

perhaps they played too much path of titans and thought i would be friendly...

[coarse blaze]

People I think expect too much from a pack-oriented, small tier carnivore.

[thin mantle]

That's comically false, your'e not obligated to hunt anything besides AI unless you're group is over 5 players, it's a choice not a requirement

[thin mantle]

There's that too

[leaden remnant]

im not saying the peak utah should be the average as you're claiming, im saying that it shouldn't require you to be at the top to be able to do anything in a group against any other dino let alone pachies

[dusky surge]

omni is so fast and agile to the point that it can bait out an alt-bite, then turn around, run back and get a free hit before the creature has fully recovered from the animation

[leaden remnant]

if you wanna survive to 3 dilos you need more than 2 utahs

[coarse blaze]

I've sustained most omnis off AI and juvie playables alone, it gets by just fine.

[thin mantle]

If you can't 2v1 a pachy you haven't achieved the animals skill floor

It's as simple as that

[leaden remnant]

you can run up to the dam or a high spot but have you forgotten how pachies will bonk you out to the death below you?

[eternal oak]

omni is one of the easiest things to play in the entire game

[thin mantle]

Easily

[leaden remnant]

i just said 2v1ing a pachy is not difficult, but do you think they are always alone

[thin mantle]

You have good mobility good stam good regen good food good water

[thin mantle]

Most of the time yes, pachy is by comparison WAY less popular

[leaden remnant]

no they're always with 4 more other, can you try to win that? sure, will you succeed? possibly! will they body camp? guaranteed

[coarse blaze]

People got too used to just being able to kill everything without thinking in my opinion.

[dusky surge]

the reason omni mains exist so prevelantly is because the animal is easy to get into but has consistent potential to do more

[thin mantle]

The number of omnis to pachy's is a comically disproportionate ratio

[thin mantle]

It's basically the tracer of the isle

[leaden remnant]

killing stuff should need a strategy, but from a lil mistake you shouldn't die

[dusky surge]

compare this to teno, who requires you to understand the situational use of all of its attacks and how to aim/use them before even surviving competently with them

[leaden remnant]

if it's a stego then yes you should die, idk what you're doing even trying with that

[coarse blaze]

At the size, depending on what you're fighting it should be death if you mess up.

[leaden remnant]

stego is off limits

[thin mantle]

Correct, but only if you're fighting animals in your weight range

[dusky surge]

teno has a MUCH higher skill floor while also being a skilled animal

[thin mantle]

Stego is legitimately one of omnis easiest targets

[leaden remnant]

nothign can feed a big pack in your weight range

[dusky surge]

well with stego's current design, omni shreds it

[thin mantle]

a solo pachy feeds 3

a teno feeds all 5

[leaden remnant]

no, there's alwyas that mini lag thing that makes you die

[dusky surge]

stego is kinda pathetic

[eternal oak]

once i saw 7 boars RIGHT next ot each other

[leaden remnant]

key word: once

[thin mantle]

That lag benefits you just as much as it benefits them

[dusky surge]

i saw 8 boars today

[leaden remnant]

that lag makes you die from 5 meters away

[dusky surge]

all within the same space

[eternal oak]

well... maybe twice

[thin mantle]

That lag allows you to pounce them before you've visually reached them for their POV

[leaden remnant]

twice

[thin mantle]

It's not tilted against omni

[eternal oak]

in the same day

[leaden remnant]

playin for 10 hours be like

[eternal oak]

it was half an hour...

[thin mantle]

Unless you're under the impression that stegos are exploiting lag by some dark magic

[leaden remnant]

with how you've been editing what u said, don't believe you

[leaden remnant]

no they don't do that, but that lag is simply gonna get you killed

so it's not the best idea to hunt one

[eternal oak]

no it was. i was playing raptor with some buddies and within like 30 minutes we saw two massive groups of boars. they killed us since we were tiny but still

[leaden remnant]

you can succeed, of course, and you're most likely going to succeed, but at the cost of what? half your pack gone

and you need big numbers to stay alive

[dusky surge]

you absolutely do not

[thin mantle]

It applies to all players

[eternal oak]

you really dont...

[dusky surge]

solo raptor is entirely viable

[leaden remnant]

the 2-3 carnos:

[thin mantle]

Don't get caught

[leaden remnant]

im not talking from an above average skill level

[thin mantle]

Play in forests

[eternal oak]

well carno is weird currently...

[thin mantle]

Play near water so you can jump rivers

[leaden remnant]

im talking about the gameplay of an average skilled utah

[eternal oak]

like really weird...

[dusky surge]

average skilled solo omni is entirely viable

[leaden remnant]

no it's nt

you'll die to everything

[thin mantle]

Below average solo onmi is entirely viable

[eternal oak]

i suck at omni. easiest thing ive ever played

[leaden remnant]

if you only scavenge, sure

but if you wanna hunt smth, good luck

[thin mantle]

Just go for solo dilos or smaller

[leaden remnant]

solo dilo will envenomate you and turn the tables in 5 seconds

[thin mantle]

If you hit it once you automatically win

[leaden remnant]

smaller dilos are only present in packs

[thin mantle]

If you land a pounce it dies

[coarse blaze]

That's not true

The smaller dilo pack thing

[leaden remnant]

if you land a pounce, yes

[thin mantle]

Right, so you have a stronger singular hit than they do

[coarse blaze]

Doesn't dilo have atrocious bleed?

[leaden remnant]

the dilo will bite you so you can't see and get away

[thin mantle]

It's tilted in your favor and you have better agility

[leaden remnant]

as simple as that

unless you're saying that the dilo is terrible, in which case he ain't got a chance

[coarse blaze]

If you pounce and run you're golden, it'll bleed itself out trying to chase you

[thin mantle]

Just keep up with it if you've managed to damage it at all it'll bleed out

[coarse blaze]

not to mention you can jump

[leaden remnant]

no it will just lay down

[coarse blaze]

Jump onto a rock and you're fine.

[leaden remnant]

and when you approach get up

[thin mantle]

At which point it's presenting itself to die

[leaden remnant]

if you run he'll sit

[thin mantle]

dilo is literally 1 kmh faster than you it isn't getting that distance

[leaden remnant]

if you don't run he can do two things

first one: die

[thin mantle]

Why would you run it's a dilo

[leaden remnant]

second: envenomate you and get the hell outta there

[leaden remnant]

y'all are saying pounce and get out

wait for it to die

[coarse blaze]

We're saying to fight it

It's 700kg with awful bleed

[thin mantle]

No someone else said that, I'm saying pounce and keep up with it

It dies, you win

[leaden remnant]

not as simple

[eternal oak]

with the bonus of food

[leaden remnant]

it's perfectly viable to do that

[thin mantle]

Case closed then

[leaden remnant]

but think about your average utah, aint happening

he'll get bitten and the dilo will run away then spam clones

[eternal oak]

bro why are you strugglin so much as raptor???

[thin mantle]

Its actually way too easy like dilo arguably doesn't have the agility to handle omni

Which is fine

[leaden remnant]

im talking about the average utah

you haven't even read anything i've said if you say that

[eternal oak]

i suck at utah and im fine as it

[thin mantle]

I'd say the same thing

[coarse blaze]

Off-topic, what's the bite force of FG cera & carno currently (?)

[shadow vortex]

Utahs are fine, what isn’t fine is desync and the amount of bugs. Two (skilled) utahs can still kill a 85% grown carno, if they don’t bump into weird hitbox problems and stuff. That’s how it is supposed to be

[shadow vortex]

140 for cera and 175 for a carno as I remember

[leaden remnant]

what you said is perfectly able to be done, yes

[coarse blaze]

Thank you!

[leaden remnant]

im trying to speak for your average utah tho, not skilled ones

[golden coral]

So the issue is that the "average" omni player is just terrible?

[leaden remnant]

no, a single mistake kills you

[dusky surge]

150 for cera

[shadow vortex]

Okie, thanks

[thin mantle]

Yes, if you can't do this you're not meeting the skill floor of the animal and are falling below the expectation of the creature

[golden coral]

Because if so, then the omni players just need to get good, as it were. We don't balance based on bad players, but on what you can do if you're good with the playable

[leaden remnant]

every other dino can commit like 4 mistakes and still have a chance, an utah who messes up a lil one time is dead

[golden coral]

Which, considering how agile and all omni is, is not too hard to avoid from what I've experienced

[leaden remnant]

the thing that they need to get good is both true and not happening

[thin mantle]

Accept for animals in omnis size range considering they're small

[leaden remnant]

cant feed an entire pack

and are always in big groups

[thin mantle]

Get good

[leaden remnant]

getting good is not a proper answer

[thin mantle]

That's what it comes down to it's not a hard animal to play

[shadow vortex]

Utahs I was fighting messed up at least two times where they landed pounces onto my head. I bit them twice, they still won because I bled out

[golden coral]

Depends on their size, dryo can't, herrera can't, dilo may be able to get away with one or two mistakes, pachy as well, but they don't have too much leeway either, and so on

Troodon can get away with even less than omni

[leaden remnant]

troodon is not even able to be played at this point don't even count it honestly

[shadow vortex]

If you fight smth more dangerous than a carno (stego), ofc you’ll need a big pack

[thin mantle]

Pachy honestly has less leway than omni because of it's self stagger on ram

[golden coral]

Well, we can't really make people get good, they'll learn as they play

[eternal oak]

fredi... my guy... take it from my experience alright? i am incredibly bad at utah. and yet i can get hunts and survive for a very long time. most of the time i kill my raptor out of boredom...

[thin mantle]

Troodon and omni are the only animals I play rn because they're skill expression allows me to kill anything I want

[dusky surge]

i can still play it so

[thin mantle]

Troodon is VERY playable

[golden coral]

It's playable from what I know

[leaden remnant]

your experience isn't everyone's experience

[dusky surge]

troodon can even shred dilos, its so fun

[leaden remnant]

relies on pounces which are bugged to hell

[thin mantle]

Troodon can solo tenos if you give them like 15 minutes xD

[leaden remnant]

definetely possible lol, but pounce is so bugged that just forget about troodon for now

[thin mantle]

Its super hard

[eternal oak]

my point being that i suck at raptor. making me an example that raptor functions FINE

[golden coral]

"the only thing a venomous critter fears, is an even more venomous critter"? xD

[leaden remnant]

if you can survive as much you clearly don't suck

[thin mantle]

I haven't been encountering many issues with pounce being bugged, just lag

[shadow vortex]

Lol before latest ~6 patches, which address issues, I lost my adult teno to 4 troos that just spammed RMB xD I died in 4 minutes

[eternal oak]

no i definitely do.

[leaden remnant]

oh well, in my case i really like troodon, but i quit for a while because pouncing was impossible, you would just phase thru the dino all the time

[golden coral]

Bugged in what manner? Anyway, to go back to a point you made, you were talking about solo omni, then talking about "not feeding a pack". Are we talking about solo omni viability or a certain pack number?

[thin mantle]

Yeah i've honestly only had that happen to me a couple times because I pounce the tail, I just aim for the flanks and it almost always works, and fortunately there's no punishment for missing so it's a pretty easy recovery

[thin mantle]

Troodons capacity to bleed is also something often overlooked, bleed is just as much the actions of the bleeding target as much as it is the damage you deal, just gotta get the ball rolling

[leaden remnant]

we could say a mix between both, what i wanted to state is that while in a pack, a single mistake is too punishing, most of the times it becomes deadly, and, while that's realistic, it's also realistic for 5 utahs to pin down a teno and kill it within seconds, which is impossible

[leaden remnant]

oh well, i typically try to get the prey still and then pounce it, the venom does insane damage so it's mostly done already lol, unfortunately i just phase thru the dino

[thin mantle]

Right it's a compensation for omni having a gargantuan list of viable targets and it being nearly immune to predation

[dusky surge]

fave part about troo venom is techincally a single hallucination from a dilo does more than a full envenomation troo pounce

[leaden remnant]

utah is the main prey for all carnivores, even adult ones

[golden coral]

You'll get that pin abiliy in the future

[thin mantle]

Not for deino, troodon, cerato, ptera, herrera...literally just carno and they're easy to deal with (or dilo)

[leaden remnant]

who wouldn't want to kill a dino that while it can definetely mess you up you can kill it in a few bites?

[golden coral]

I'm pretty sure troodon and herrera do not want to try an omni unless they are under very specific circumstances

[leaden remnant]

cerato and deino definetely prey on em

[leaden remnant]

my bad i forgot to exclude the small ones

[thin mantle]

Cerato quite literally isn't able to prey on them they lack the speed and stam for it, and deino hunts literally all sentient life

Because deino is deino

But it's pretty easy to avoid now

[leaden remnant]

while they lack the speed and stam for it, 2 bites and dead utah

[thin mantle]

Why would you ever be hit by an animal that literally cannot touch you if you know it exists

Like sure a rex can oneshot a galli that doesn't make rex an effective predator for them

[leaden remnant]

can't hear it coming

[dusky surge]

land deino can kill most of the animals in the game without much contest

why don't we see much of that

[thin mantle]

Ok then that's on you for lacking awareness

[leaden remnant]

or perhaps the cera finding a route towards you

[thin mantle]

Again, that's on you for lacking awareness

[leaden remnant]

if you're in a forest as you suggested, a cera can find a way to get you

[thin mantle]

If you get ambushed by a creature that is far slower than you that's entirely your fault

[thin mantle]

Not if you're moving, cerato does make noise when it moves

[dusky surge]

and a CERATO no less, one of the worst ambushers in the game

[leaden remnant]

not all the time, if you're drinking at a forest you're bonked

[leaden remnant]

if it's like 3 meters away yes

[dusky surge]

whos primary damage ability has the lyrics of

"AAAAAUUUGHHRRRRRAAHAAAHHHHHHHHAHAHHOOOO"

[thin mantle]

A cerato can also only onetap you if it charges up it's loud af WRYYY super bite

[leaden remnant]

actually it might be my headphones not working or smth but i can't hear anything from ceras

[thin mantle]

Totally on you for allowing it to come that close without being spotted, even if it lands a hit on you without you seeing it just leave, it needs to land 4 bodyshots to kill you

[eternal oak]

cerato when anything: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[leaden remnant]

never knew that any attack could even be heared

[thin mantle]

Cerato is one of if not the loudest creatures in the game so probably

[dusky surge]

and, as an omni, you can only get one-tapped by a cera to the head

so basically, to die to a cera in an ambush you need to

• not touch the keyboard
• be blindfolded
• not wear headphones

[leaden remnant]

it definetely has to be that

[thin mantle]

It can't even come within a corpses area without gurgling

[eternal oak]

bro you playing at 0 volume?

[leaden remnant]

no, my headphones are just very cheap

[eternal oak]

fair enough

[leaden remnant]

i wanna hear what's outside as well not only the game

[thin mantle]

Yeah that's gonna limit you severely

If you're wanting to play the game to your fullest capability

[leaden remnant]

yeah ignore my last point of not hearing, that's on my headphones and on me for choosing these

[thin mantle]

It's a VERY audio based game

No worries

[leaden remnant]

yeah lmao, i alwyas drink where there's leaves and stuff so that i can hear both predators approaching and deinos moving

either way, let's settle this shall we?

in my most honest opinion and after seeing y'all discuss, utah does not need the claw to pierce thru everything and stuff

[thin mantle]

You actually can't hear deinos below the surface basically at all, just drink at shallow water instead it'll be way more reliable

[leaden remnant]

it only could use some more resistance to bites so that learning doesn't cause you to die all the time

[leaden remnant]

i surprisingly can hear deinos if they move very close to me

[thin mantle]

I disagree but it was good chatting regardless

[leaden remnant]

definetely, however im not saying it should be able to take many cera hits

not even a carno can

[dusky surge]

damage resist on omni is really counter-intuitive to its core design

[thin mantle]

Yeah it can already tank 3 probably shouldn't tank more

[dusky surge]

(assuming all are body shots)

[thin mantle]

Right right

[leaden remnant]

since you can't pin a teno down with 5 ppl you gotta get some other small advantage

[thin mantle]

it can potentially tank like 10 if it's being chased

[leaden remnant]

pretty sure it's a bit more than 10

tail bites do nothing anyways

[dusky surge]

we don't want a PoT where paint dries more rapidly than a dinosaur dying in a fight

[thin mantle]

Probably is I don't recall the multiplier

[leaden remnant]

just for the sake of helping the average utah learn, 4 would be fine imo

it's not an insane more but it's just a bit more enough to make it a lil better

[thin mantle]

I feel like making the animal easier is counterintuitive to the learning process

[dusky surge]

PoT having stuff like a raptor tank a rex bite and retreat to heal it all off on a rock within 5 seconds is why i dont wanna touch the game lol

[thin mantle]

You need to be less aware of your limits than before

Which requires less skill, and therefor less learning

Which makes the animal far more simple and thus defeating it's purpose

[leaden remnant]

honestly that's a good point, however right now you only learn by dying, since everythnig costs you your life

with omst of the other dinos you learn by getting a massive whooping

[thin mantle]

Unless you're fighting animals that aren't several times your size

[dusky surge]

part of the reason raptor as an animal is so attractive to so many people is due to that massive discrepancy in skill floor and ceiling, and that insane level of versatility

solo omni plays almost entirely differently from pack omni

[leaden remnant]

well, if you aren't good against pachies for example, broken body... death is upon you

[thin mantle]

Right and you should die, that's how you learn your limits

[dusky surge]

pounce as a mechanic is fundamentally the most complex mechanic any dinosaur has atm

[thin mantle]

being tankier doesn't change that actually

[leaden remnant]

i mean since it's a pachy, i guess you're right

but if it's a cera for example, you aren't fully healed and a very nice alt bite ends you, well well well...

[dusky surge]

honestly, you wanna make raptor better while not betraying its core design philosophy, you could do stuff like increase its endurance

[thin mantle]

Nah you can tank 2 headshots

You can't be oneshot so at that point you just leave

And you've learned AND survived

[leaden remnant]

yea but not if you're not full health

a raptor is never full health anyways

[thin mantle]

And if you're not thats entirely your fault and you deserve to die for that mistake

[leaden remnant]

you're always healing up from a fight

[leaden remnant]

honestly bro you got a point here

[thin mantle]

If you're not full HP don't engage

[leaden remnant]

agreed you deserve to die if you messed up that bad

[thin mantle]

You dictate the majority of your engagements because you have godly stam and are really relatively fast

And you dont need to eat very often

[leaden remnant]

either way we've been here for a while, y'all got some very good points that showed me how the claw actually doing insane damage is simply way too damn far

[dusky surge]

here's how pack omnis should generally play

• hunt
• kill the thing you need to kill and fill up
• retreat to heal any wounds
• while doing so, sustain on AI or scraps
• once healed, go back out there
• repeat the cycle

its honestly quite chill

[leaden remnant]

so don't mind me if i edit my feedback

[thin mantle]

Mhm, a problem I often have with omni buff ideas is that they detract from the value of making mistakes, concequences is what defines the limits of an animal AS WELL as how impressive it is to beat your odds and kill larger targets, like it would become way less impressive to solo a teno on omni if you could simply tank an entire combo from them, and it severely damages tenos viability as an animal that has no choice but to kill you or die as it cannot disengage

[dusky surge]

beating the odds as omni is why omni became so attractive to so many

[thin mantle]

And omni is a much smaller animal so it having really harsh limits is apart of why it exists as it does

[thin mantle]

Yeah its why cerato has fallen off in popularity as opposed to omni over time, cerato is easier to play and has less expression potential (and carno but we wont talk about that), despite being bigger and stronger

[leaden remnant]

got a point here as well

[dusky surge]

also people refuse to play cerato like a scav bully

because carni = hunt

[thin mantle]

Yeah they play it as forward facing tenonto with carnos hunting preferences

Its bizarre

[eternal oak]

i mena... you can play cera however you want...

[thin mantle]

Right but it's most effective playstyle is hardly ever engaged with

[dusky surge]

you can play carno as a corpse bully but you're gonna realise why that don't work too good

because when the two raptors go "wait if he's just standing there the hell is he actually gonna do with his slow-ass alt-bite" and then pounce that carno to smithereens

[thin mantle]

Like sure you CAN try to hunt stegos on carno it's just sub optimal and you're gonna be punished for trying

[dusky surge]

carno and cera are supposed to essentially be polar opposites. Carno keeps moving, cerato finds a spot and holds it

Unstoppable force, immovable object

[leaden remnant]

alr bois im out, been a great chatting, imma grow an utah now (oorah)

i edited my feedback, check it out if you want

[thin mantle]

GL and thanks for the chat

Go solo a teno for me >:)

I know you can

[leaden remnant]

if he is alone sure thing man

[thin mantle]

[eternal oak]

yeah. play your favorite dinosaur how you wish. its just... not the best idea

[dusky surge]

it's kinda why i think carno and cera represent two rival carnivores done well. They both compliment each other by providing entirely different experiences and fighting styles

Meanwhile allo and alberto literally just seem like the same

[leaden remnant]

if he isn't alone i'll try but i can't guarantee anything

[thin mantle]

Yeah there's no denying that intended playstyles are often incentivized

[dusky surge]

i'm of the opinion your favourite dinosaur should derive from your favourite playstyle

[leaden remnant]

definetely

[eternal oak]

i mean. bottom line is that people want to play and survive as a dinosaur they think is dope as hell

they can do what they want with that it really doesnt matter...

[dusky surge]

like carno, cera and bary are literally the trifecta of three interesting carnivores that share the same size tier but provide such wildly different gameplay experiences that all interact with each other uniquely

[thin mantle]

Right but those people still need to accept that their animal is designed for ceratin tasks

[eternal oak]

yeah

[thin mantle]

Oftentimes players want to morph their favorite dino into the roll of another because they enjoy the aesthetic but not the playstyle

Dilo and Cerato share this issue

Moreso than most I'd say

OH....deino is the queen of this mentality

[dusky surge]

dilo unfortunately does get away with a lot of it because of how permissive its kit is to mucking about rn

[thin mantle]

Yeah it just requires so little effort, and the value it gets is primarily in limiting what a player is allowed to do in response as opposed to just killing it

Which is annoying on every front, for the dilo player, and for the afflicted

[eternal oak]

take someone like me fx. my favorite dinosaur is carnotaurus. (obviously). my favorite playstyle is a very fast paced ambush hunter. although carno ingame isnt necessarily the best ambush hunter. he still has the damn tools to ambush...

[thin mantle]

Mhm, and tbf your favorite playstyle doesn't align much with carno outside of being fast, so there is a conflict there

So you CAN ambush with carno

It's just that you're incurring an uphill effort

Which is fine if thats what you want

[dusky surge]

i mean, i like new carno, but the stam on charge is just bizarrely unfair for the current limiters

[thin mantle]

A lot of the stam costs per action are just weird

[eternal oak]

yeah. of course carno absolutely can ambush... i mean... being big, stripey and insanely fast helps a lot

[thin mantle]

jumping for most creatures is absurdly costly

The fact that herrera spends more time resting than actively climbing is such a crime

Like of all animals to have a favorable stam economy herrera would be at the top of the lsit

[eternal oak]

it really sucks doesnt it...

[thin mantle]

It's such a shame cuz climbing is fun

You just can't really DO it that much

[eternal oak]

they really did good on climbing mechanics

[thin mantle]

They need to tighten up their hitboxes for basically every object in the game but yes

[eternal oak]

devs deserve a round of applause for that one

[thin mantle]

They also for the love of god need to make vaulting less janky

Like herrera can't figure out how to scale a 5inch lip on the side of a building

Because it counts as a horizontal ceiling

via climbings logic

Despite it easily being something you can reach over with minimal effort

Like this is a hyperspecific example but I hate it relentlessly

The watchtowers on most human bases, specifically the one directly south east of highlands overlooking the forest...you cannot get on top of that tower

Because it has this miniscule lip on the edge of the railing

And your herrera lacks the brainpower to use that as a grip

[eternal oak]

the isle has always had a few relatively janky physics

[thin mantle]

Instead of perceiving it as an immortal bastion of impassibility

its so funny too cuz your herreras neck will bend as if it's pressed into a ceiling xD

[dusky surge]

wanna talk about a playable that's actually suffering, beipi lmao

i'd have to say beipi takes the cake as the current worst playable™️

[eternal oak]

yeah... the hell happened to those little guys... havent seen any since... idk

[dusky surge]

it is the only animal where growth kicks your ass

[eternal oak]

i miss them...

[dusky surge]

here's the issue with beipis

once they reach adult, they suck

they are literally better off not growing

they are the only animal that has its worst everything at adult

[eternal oak]

reminds me of update 6.5 carno.

[dusky surge]

not even

because U6.5 carno was faster

[eternal oak]

well yeah. i meant the whole "being better off not growing"

[dusky surge]

beipi as a full adult has its primary tool, the dolphin dive, SHAFTED

[thin mantle]

Beipi is actually such a depressing tragedy

Like it's whole identity has been gutted

[dusky surge]

it's literally two easy fixes too

give beipi's adult stage airtime proportional to its younger stages

and make it that the diving stamdrain is tuned for gateway's new stam system

[eternal oak]

isle devs: "beipi needs a nerf, it is WAY too op"

[dusky surge]

no, that never happened

it's more of a lack of paying attention to it

something happened along the way that neutered its jump and the devs never noticed

[eternal oak]

yeah... but its funnier that way...

[dusky surge]

i just find it more frustrating

because beipi is so easy to be good

just make its movement satisfying that's literally all you need to do

[eternal oak]

and perhaps fix the alleged lack of fish...

[dusky surge]

although i think migrations limiting factor also plays a part in the lack of players in the herbi and omni department

in which you literally just make 2 active migration zones per species at any time rather than one

and done that's it badda boom its fixed

give people the option to move to point B if point A becomes too dull or overpopulated

the issue we have with migration zones is they're GREAT for stuff like stego, but galli/beipi really like moving, so let them

[eternal oak]

you could also just make food spawn outside the migration zone. just in their specific environments. ie coconuts at coasts and such

[hollow mantle]

is there anyonels, that get's dc every like 15 min or so?

[shadow vortex]

Honestly it's kinda funny and sad at the same time that migration zones from optional became mandatory. No food outside, I couldn't even smell other plants which are not on my diet as a dryo. Also one time there even weren't ANY plants in my migration zone, the only way to survive that time was either grazing or logging out in hopes of a better gameplay next time lol...

[dusky surge]

@short meadow that's not a being big problem, that's just cera

cera has a bottomless pit stomach, AI is meaningless

[short meadow]

Carno has double the hunger drain of Cera lol

[dusky surge]

its not hunger drain

cera literally has a larger stomach for its size

it can devour an entire tenonto and still be hungry

[short meadow]

Well when I say "hunger drain" I mean eating all of that food but it not mattering because I'm still going to starve to death.

Because even though I've been nonstop eating I am going to die

[hollow canyon]

if it has a larger stomach for its size does it mean that it starves very slowly then? Cause if it takes 45minutes-1h then it's not so much that it has a big stomach and more so that it just doesn't get much food from much of anything

[dusky surge]

no it just devours more

[hollow canyon]

again - how long does it take to starve?

Because if it just devours more then it should starve much slower

[shadow vortex]

No. Basically cera gets 2% food from AI when carno gets 10% from the same AI. But the depletion time is the same, ~45 minutes for both

[hollow canyon]

then eating stuff gives it little food

Also - Dilo diet is awful

are the diets of everything else also just as overloaded with AI?

[mellow zenith]

Only dilo and herrera

[hollow canyon]

Bizarre design, hopefully it gets fixed

[neon willow]

Eh... Sort of. Think about it like this-- if carno stomach holds 500 food points when full, and cerato stomach holds 1000 food points, and a boar provides 100 food points when eaten. Then the carno refills 20% food, but cerato only refills 10% food. However, if hunger drains at 100 points per hour, then both the cerato and Carno are still gonna be at 0% at the same time-- in order for cerato to be full longer it has to eat twice as much

All numbers arbitrary of course. But it illustrates the idea

[hollow canyon]

I know precisely how it works

those values are irrelevant

effectively it makes Cerato receive very little food from everything it eats

[neon willow]

If you want to think about it that way... But if a cerato eats the same amount of food as something else (eg, if it ate a boar and a carno ate a boar) they'd both have food for the same amount of time

[sharp patrol]

Omni def not the worst carnivore atm that's troodon hands down

[hollow canyon]

@cloud sigil I don't think they would do that it would literally give some people an unfair advantage

if you don't see a bush that someone is hiding in but you see them that would give you an advantage

[cloud sigil]

How does that make any sense, so what you are saying is, you should keep this so you cannot actually do what predetors would do which is ambush? Thats silly. Might as well all play with our graphics on low so you can see everyone one everywhere without bushes till you get within 20 meters of them,.

[hollow canyon]

I'm saying that the bushes should not be disappearing

no matter what your graphical settings or hardware are

if your card can't support bushes spawning as far away as they do then that means that a newer card is required

[neon willow]

The fix could be that on lower settings dinos don't render in if they're within x radius of a bush that won't render

[hollow canyon]

I have thought about it but but I somehow feel iffy on the render distance getting limited

but yes it could be a solution

[hallow hinge]

omni shares his place with him (dog tier) worse than F tier

[hollow canyon]

What has exactly been changed about Omni to make it so bad?

[cosmic pelican]

bucking got buffed, its strenght depends on species. you cant pounce the face and the back now, if you do youll do a claw attack that does 65dmg

but it is far from bad, even with the nerfs tbh

its biggest downfall rn is desync, but that doesnt matter to balance

[hollow canyon]

those sound reasonable depending on how strong bucking is but tbh it should've always been stronger on larger animals

[cosmic pelican]

the animal with the strongest bucking is dilo, which is kinda dumb imo

you can only stay on for 7 seconds before falling off

[hollow canyon]

hmmm, probably so that it doesn't get oneshot by pounce's bleed

I'd nerf its buck and give it some good bleed resistance

[cosmic pelican]

meanwhile carno does pretty much the same stamina dmg as before

[hollow canyon]

yea Carno being trash vs bleed is clearly how they want to go about it, not a fan of this set up with Carno and Dilo but devs do things in a weird way

also does pouncing something's face cause Omni to get stunned?

if it does then that should be removed it should just deal damage and be able to freely run with no delay

[cosmic pelican]

while in the claw attack animation, but thats like 0.5seconds

still enough to get hit though

which is fine

[hollow canyon]

I mean if you jump at the face of something that can bite you

that's on you

yea that sounds about fine, I think those are fine changes

[sharp patrol]

Omni atleast has the ability to bite and deal somewhat decent damage plus their pounces if you stay on are much more effective

[thin mantle]

Omni actually has one of the strongest bites per weight ratios in the game

So its bite is exceptionally good

[sharp patrol]

Yeah troodon does nothing

[dusky surge]

just played against a group of competent raptors

the people saying this animal is bad are completely deluded lol

it is literally nothing more than a skill issue to not be able to hunt effectively in packs

this animal is horrifyingly powerful, and that "pounce kick" does such insane bleed damage that it's almost like getting a tap pounce

the only reasons i can see people calling it weak are

A: They're playing pure solo facetank machine
B: They're bad

[distant torrent]

to be fair a lot of people on official servers are pretty bad

like me

an adult cera the other day got sent to the respawn screen by two pachies because he took baits like crazy and didn’t know how to use walls, corners, and cliffs lol

clearly the playable needs a hard buff

can’t let the poor ceras get steam rolled by a pachy pair

[shadow vortex]

I’d doubt that two pachies could even deal major damage to a cera lol… Did they buff its damage?

Cuz cera can just tail ride them basically and easily avoid at least 80% of rams

[distant torrent]

not as far as I’m aware. but the mans got his ankles and legs bashed in like 20 times

[shadow vortex]

Wth

[distant torrent]

^

this was on the beach too where there were many places he could go to to outright deny pachies

[dusky surge]

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