balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

they should absolutely have a problem

pachy was designed as bane to raptor

[grizzled anchor]

Ive played it yesterday it still sucks. Not only to the stam even tho its a huge problem but because of how the map is designed... every 50m is a spot where you can just let any raptor fall to its death when daring to pounce you.

[dusky surge]

thats its purpose

[grizzled anchor]

Wow alr then we wont come to any agreement if u really think a pack of raptors shouldnt be able to hunt a single pachy. we won't need to continue this discussion 🙂 Im out

[solid imp]

No matter how slow stamina drains, it still drains, and u can't get it back unless u afk in a bush for 5 mins, and that's the problem

[dusky surge]

depends on pack size and competence

[keen plover]

They won't tbf. 8 bites to drop a pachy

• pounce is free damage when landed

[golden coral]

Well, last I tested, a pounce itself cost very little. Not sure how bad bucking is, but since it got nerfed, I doubt it's that bad, and it was fine before the nerf so yeah.

[dusky surge]

pachy should do more damage regardless, it's absurd

[keen plover]

Pachy having the damage to put them out of commission if played well is fine

[dusky surge]

it does like, so little damage

[grizzled anchor]

competence shouldn't be a question in such a discussion ofc if the pachy is great and the raptors are trash its another story but we always think about equally skilled players. Skill gap is not helping any balance discussion ngl

[keen plover]

If they're equal skill then 3 should be enough to drop one imo.

Since 3 bites each are needed

[dusky surge]

equally skilled players should have trouble as a 2v1 with raptors vs a pachy, imho. However, larger animals should be a significant threat to pachy, and groups of 3+ raptors should have the upper hand

[grizzled anchor]

lol the pounce itself cost very little? Still takes 5 minutes to get that pounce of stam back... and bucking feels almost like in spiro and with the time it takes to regen the stam it is very punishing.
Even one missed pounce felt pretty punishing (not too punishing but still) but bucking just felt outta this world after I got bucked for 0.5 secs my stam is so low im out of the fight (FOR 15 MINUTES). Raptors should have a higher stam regen thats a fact

[dusky surge]

i've been fine with omni and troodon in fights tbh

[grizzled anchor]

The bigger problem is finding mates rn tbh. Especially troodon is rarely seen rn and I do understand why. Roaming the map as a small dinosaur which then takes 10-15 mins to regen stam feels terrible you might aswell play carno or cera then.

[golden coral]

Yes, it cost little, from what I could tell at least. And sure, regen is slow, but you can walk around, or stand/crouch. And well, depends on what you're hunting, if you have a partner, stam shouldn't be much of an issue at all as long as you're not hunting too large things. I sincerely doubt bucking is anywhere near that, was it possibly an AI teno you pounced?

And no, no they should not, that's what you have packmates for, to take turns and rest up while the others do their part

And it does not take 15 min to regen, not resting at least

I don't think there's any playable that takes longer than about 5 min at most, or at least none I've played so far, and that's from all empty stamina

[grizzled anchor]

It was a cerato I pounced. And the fact alone that raptors need to traverse the map walking only takes away huge amounts of fun. Raptors should be fast and agile rn they're just agile cant call walking around normally as fast

[grizzled anchor]

And thast what is not possible anymore. We either have a different feeling of time or idk what but rn you can retreat to get some stam and join back because you either take ages to get back into the fight or have like one pounce in you and have to retreat again. Ive played alot of Omni on spiro and how the omni feels rn its not fun simple as that.

[golden coral]

Everything has to traverse the map, most things struggle doing so. But that will be adjusted with better walks/trots and adjusted drains on food and water if needed

[grizzled anchor]

The difference with omni is that its stam reliant so every running increases your risk of dying greatly. So you're basically all for the new stam system and wanna waste hours just recovering stam instead of having fun?
The amount of times I need to sit in a bush ruins the game for me currently, every sprint dooms me for another few minutes of swiping on my phone...

[golden coral]

Yeah, we clearly have somewhat different experiences, I've yet to feel that regen is as bad as people sometimes make it out to be.

[grizzled anchor]

but bro its a raptor... why does a raptor take as long to recover stam as a freaking carno for example... makes no sense its a small agile creature it shouldnt be that long

[golden coral]

And well yes, I appreciate the goal and sentiment of the new stam system

For all playables, I like the idea that you use trots and walks to travel and move, rather than run around. And only use stam when it's absolutely needed, escape or combat, or to get to food or water before starving or so

[grizzled anchor]

I do too but I dont praise every change they did. And not scaling the stam regen is one of the worst things they did imo.
Troodon and raptor feel terrible rn (troodon much worse) because you cant sprint anywhere.... Hear a dino to fight closeby cant run there since you cant start a fight with half stam....

[golden coral]

Because even raptors shouldn't be running around everywhere? Or be able to just regen stamina and keep going forever. Even less so when you can have an entire pack. And well, I did not feel at risk of low stam on troodon, granted I didn't hang on to the target.

Can't agree on troodon, it felt perfectly fine, both being in the sanctuaries, and hunting that cera

And it chased me around quite a bit and then tried to run away

And I still had plenty of stam and never needed to rest more than once

[grizzled anchor]

We cleary enjoy the game differently. I dont wanna play a pressing W sim which punishes me for every sprint I do with wait time. I really love this game but if nothing changes I might quit it tbh every day my excitement to play this game is going down and a huge portion of the community feels the same obv.

[grizzled anchor]

bruh then you seriously never run anywhere. If I hear a dino I wanna fight I dont want to walk there and take 3 times the time while the dino I heard probably moves too. And idk about you but whenever prey tried escaping when I was a troodon there was no catching it it was gone.

I dont think the number of troodon players is so low because its such a fun experience.

[golden coral]

Apparently we do. Or it's more so that I do not think the stam regen is the problem, but the lack of good trots and all

If those things were better, you wouldn't need to run everywhere

[golden coral]

I do, when I do need to run. But in most cases, I don't really think in terms of "let me go fight that", I hunt when needed, or avoid things if I'm a herbi

[grizzled anchor]

I dont mind walking to travel but If I cant "hunt" herbis as carni and instead walk towards them because I cant waste that much stam for just getting there idk.

[golden coral]

Hence better, faster trots

Which would solve that problem

[dusky surge]

i mean, troodon is fun, it's VERY good

[grizzled anchor]

Well try chasing something after pouncing it once or twice you'll lose it since your stam will be 0 soon.
In my opinion small dinos should have faster stam regen. Would only make sence if the stam regen is scaling

[dusky surge]

i've killed so much as troodon

[golden coral]

I am not saying current travel options are good, I am saying that the solution is to make better trots/walks, not change the stamina, because the concept of using all your stamina, and then needing to properly rest, is good, at least to me

[golden coral]

I did, it worked fine with troodon

[grizzled anchor]

In Sanctuary? 😂 because outside of sanctuaries troodon isnt "VERY good"

[dusky surge]

nah, it is, i've killed so much as even a solo troo

i can't imagine how good this animal is with more

and with the new NV, it's a menace

[grizzled anchor]

lol alr then I wanna see how you pounce 3-4 times and then still chase it down when your prey have barely used any stam.

[golden coral]

Troodon is quite scary these days, or so I've heard, and with current NV, no surprise (can we get good NV in general, please, I'd like to not have to sit in place or logout at night)

[dusky surge]

the pounce is very cheap. I've used like, 8 pounces in a fight and still had like half stam, it's absurd

[golden coral]

Granted, my target chased me around, not the other way around, but it wouldn't have gone anywhere fast anyway, since it was a cera :p

[grizzled anchor]

if every dino had good NV you can throw dilo for example out the board. Every night hunter can just be left out of the roster then. I love the new NV and even the Ceras NV feels realistic for me.

[golden coral]

Having playable NV does not mean there can't or won't be advantages for the night hunters

But having NV that you can't do much with, just means it's better to afk, or log

[grizzled anchor]

Anyway I dont wanna spend hours and hours on end discussing here rn gotta do stuff.
I guess no one where will change its opinion so it doesnt lead anywhere too XD
Have a good one guys

[dusky surge]

ceras NV is kinda silly tho

[golden coral]

Why would I stay online as cera, when my only options at night are to find a crevice, shove my head into it, and then just stand there for 20 min

[golden coral]

I mean, if you can provide examples of good or fun gameplay for a cera at night, be my guest

[grizzled anchor]

So basically stego fighting tactic? 🤣

[cosmic pelican]

Doesnt matter when the stego cant swing because of vomitlock

[golden coral]

But so far I've yet to figure out what I can possibly do at night that is actually useful

[golden coral]

Yes, what else would you do?

[cosmic pelican]

Even if the swing animation starts, the damage will cancel out

[golden coral]

Stand in the open where everything else can see and manuever better, while you can't see anything, or hunker down in as defensible position as possible if you have to stay in game

As anything short of troodon, or maybe omni (I think it has decent NV), I'd just find the nearest cliff/good defensible position and stand there for the night time

[grizzled anchor]

Well go eat something? Cera has a great sense of smell why do you need to see far in the night? also drinking at night is the best time since crocs cant see much too.
Cera has great smell and bad eyesight so I dont see any reason to give them better NV than they have alr.

[golden coral]

See so I can avoid dangers, or defend myself

[grizzled anchor]

See what I mean with omin sucks with the map design?

[golden coral]

Why would I risk myself when I can fill up and then just wait the night out

Instead of risking running off a cliff, or be jumped by something that can see me better than I can see it

[golden coral]

No, not at all, you just need to plan your hunt

And be a bit clever and trick your prey

But I'd be happy if there were better defenses vs pounce than terrain

But yeah, I can't see any use of actively playing at night with current NV

[grizzled anchor]

Well do what you gotta do, I dont just sit in a bush just cause its night as cera. Im confident that I see enough to defend myself. I can easily fight of other dinos from bodies with that NV

[golden coral]

Safer to log, saves food and water too :D

[grizzled anchor]

Bruh he just goes to a cliff and the hunt is over no plan can change that.

[golden coral]

You can absolutely work around the potential defense strategies and tactics of your prey, such as considering when and from what direction to attack, trying to trick the prey into leaving by pretending to give up, and so on.

[grizzled anchor]

Safer yes more fun? I doubt it. Especially with the upcoming night terrors the night will be a thrill. Its a game of survival but that doesn't mean you gotta log out if you're at a disadvantage. I hope for cool interactions and fight and if that means I get slaughtered at night so be it.

[golden coral]

Disadvantage is fine, not having any ability at all, is bad

I don't consider it cool or fun to try and survive when I can't see what I'm doing at all

And sure, but I play to survive, not to fight

If you consider fighting fun, I can see your point. I consider surviving fun, so I will play when I feel I have a reasonable chance at doing so

[grizzled anchor]

From experience I can tell you any half decent player wont be fooled that easily. And I wanna see your pack pretending to give up and consider how to attack when their stomach is empty. 🙂 Its a race against time and mostly the herbivore wins this fight. If you're fighting a carni you might be lucky enough that hes starving himself.

[golden coral]

Why are you not hunting while you're still full and have the time to fail a hunt or two?

That seems like a failure to plan on your part if you don't consider failure a possibility

[grizzled anchor]

You have the ability to defend yourself. And I think a cera sees quite far. Just because everything beyond a point is black doesnt mean oyu dont see you still see glowing eyes and even movement if you look correct. Ive fought off a carno at night np.

[golden coral]

And sure, some people won't be fooled, but a lot will take the chance, because since you mentioned fun, it's not fun to just stand there next to the cliff for the next 30 minutes, doing nothing

[golden coral]

Maybe it's just darker on my screen, but cera/stego I can't see anything beyond my own body pretty much, at best

[grizzled anchor]

Because it takes ages to find prey? I moved with a pack of 9 raptors and we ran around desperately looking for any prey. In the end more than half the pack died because there was no time for anything but fighting to death or starving to death

[golden coral]

That is not good enough to defend myself no, since the target can literally be in striking range before I can even see them

If you think Cera sees quite far, I don't know what it looks like on your screen, but it sure doesn't look like that on mine

[grizzled anchor]

It was so from the start but I feel like they brightened up the cera NV quite a bit which was enough for me to say thats fine.

[golden coral]

If you don't mind, grab a screenshot for me next time, so I can compare

Because that is definitely not my experience, for either cera or stego, I can't even see my own tail end as stego

[golden coral]

Yeah, fair, but that's probably because migrations seems to be a bit weird at times

When they work, you pretty much do know where to go to find prey

[grizzled anchor]

actual fighting is fun yeah even trying to escape can be fun, in survival its not only I sit in a bush until I need food or water. I want to have interactions, explore, make friends, fight foes just do stuff. The way I imagine your playstyle is basically chill all the time rn.

[golden coral]

I do tend to be more on the "I enjoy being a dino" side, yes.

[grizzled anchor]

We were in highlands migration zone nothing there we went to lake... nothing there ofcourse we need to move then... 100 players is not enough for this big map

[golden coral]

With that said, I agree with you, fighting, interactions, exploring and all is fun (and maybe nesting if that was you know, useful to do)

I would like herbi food to be outside of migration zones so you can explore

[grizzled anchor]

nesting is dead tho 😦

[golden coral]

I know, also something I hope they do something with, especially now that sanctuaries are a thing for juvies

[golden coral]

I think it might be due to migration zones not changing or updating as they should

[grizzled anchor]

I 100% agree, I dont play herbi since for me its kinda boring and I dont like the current herbis but Ive heard from my herbi friends that exploring is basically not possible rn lol

[golden coral]

Because earlier when migration zones did work, highlands was apparently the hot spot to go to

[grizzled anchor]

Highlands has always food even if no migration zone is there. I think its more that the servers population isnt great enough to fill this map so if you're unlucky and on the empty side of the map you gotta hope to not starve

[golden coral]

I play both, depends on the mood and what critter is playable (since I tend to play based on if I like the playstyle and critter in question)

[dusky surge]

highlands are dumb lol

[grizzled anchor]

Well highlands was a hotspot outside of the migrations zones working just because its always filled with food no matter if the migration zone is there or not....

[golden coral]

Could be, I just know that migrations have been odd, but when they do work, it seems to at least be a decent way to find players, and sanctuaries would be the same for juvies now

[grizzled anchor]

totally agree, I hope it wont become the new center :/

[golden coral]

But more players wouldn't be bad, assuming performance allows it

[grizzled anchor]

sanctuary is a heaven for herbis but for carnis idk doesnt feel that good...

[golden coral]

@grizzled anchorAnyway, I didn't mean to keep you here talking. But I'd appreciate a screenshot of your cera NV, cause it could be that my basic "setting" is just darker than yours

[grizzled anchor]

Herbis easily get perfect diet by their mushrooms a carni needs to hope there's something dead there or something which can be killed rather easily.
I saw a pachy in sanctuary yesterday which killed everything trying to go there (I mean I used it to kill me food but for my food it wasnt a great experience)

[golden coral]

Troodon. Basically a paradise for them, probably even an omni, since they can hunt the juvies having to leave

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah troodons I agree its stupid that they can chill there all the way... but besides that its tough. I died there so often... for me it was easier to get my first meal on spiro in center ngl.

[grizzled anchor]

np Im waiting for my order rn 😄
I can make a screenshot of my cera NV when I play him. Keep in mind small ceras are more blind than adults.

[dusky surge]

i mean they recently buffed juvi NV

[golden coral]

That I know. If you get to adult, get me one of that. Since that's the "goal" after all, to grow up and all.

[golden coral]

I would imagine scavenging, I was thinking more that as an older omni ,you could hang out around the sanctuaries to hunt the juvies having to leave due to the bees evicting them xD

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah alot of carnis also do that, takes away the fun from hunting and stalking prey for me tho. I usually head there for the first meal then leave and never come back ^^

[grizzled anchor]

I fought fg troodons as juvi carno there, they're tough to fight but not impossible (the terrain kinda is their disadvantage at least in NE Sanctuary) I go there try and get a first meal and then leave asap becaus thats kos zone basically 😄

[slim dragon]

@oblique wigeon That's already how it works

[oblique wigeon]

it def is not i rested for 3 minutes as a baby troodon adn still didnt have full stam

i startedstarving faster than i got my stam back

if it is the curve needs to be massively reworked for at LEAST the smaller dinos

[lone timber]

yeah i also have experienced rampaging big juvi pachys just annihilating every baby in the sanctuary

[coarse blaze]

As a sub-FG carno I charged into the backside of an AI teno and took a hefty bit of damage twice, has that always been a thing? The teno was just running away, nothing special but I kept taking DMG.

[dusky surge]

you take recoil damage from attacking too large a creature

[coarse blaze]

OH yeah that adds up

[slate knoll]

Weight moves weight, gotta do some more squats eat some protein

[dusky surge]

im playing carno and damn this animal is broken

[shadow vortex]

Ikr. Btw can you gimme some tips on how to play teno against cera? I was 1400 kg, landed 2 knocking down tail slams on him, 2 kicks to head and 1 to body and that bastard didn’t die lol… Also do you think that puking shouldn’t cancel non-bite attacks?

[dusky surge]

tailslam to kick is def the best way

kicks do the damage

[shadow vortex]

Yep but it’s kinda hard to land a proper tailslam since they’re quite agile oh… Just running around charging their bite which does roughly 300 damage even to body, mhem

[dusky surge]

yea, it does 300, more damage than any of your attacks

[shadow vortex]

Welp I surely need to practice as a teno, but I’m so lazy to reinstall Evrima and go to Norden again lol

Thank you for answering btw :)

[distant torrent]

puking should definitely not be affecting non biting attacks at all

[coarse blaze]

I won't lie, the grappling mechanic makes me a tad worried watching a single omni subdue a FG stego seems a bit much.

[dusky surge]

thats an example

[coarse blaze]

I hope it stays an example because my god

[dusky surge]

not actually whats happenin

[coarse blaze]

Considering the love for omni I wouldn't have been shocked

And therefore worried

[halcyon elk]

When the omnis on you equal your weight you get pinned. Iirc there's an upper limit to this

[unborn iris]

Still a long way off. I'd be surprised if pounce ever really works right. The more they mess with it the worse it gets.

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message
Herbivore: "oh no grass smells bad here" dies

[dusky surge]

smells fresh meat of 3 compies it killed on its nest
pukes
dies

just like nature

[slim dragon]

realistic

[strong solar]

Tailslam to knock them then kick them on the head until they get up and then tail slam again for range

[wary canyon]

Definately think if Ptero's stam regen gets adjusted that the rest of it is fine (imo)

[oak copper]

stam should go back to monke

[random stump]

hear me out, have the stamina drain be differently working on different creatures

[alpine sleet]

guys what do you think about the carno? maybe its because of the lag but i was testing on a pvp server and it seems super strong against teno now

because of how it can instant charge now

the charge has a big cooldown but its almost certain it will land

[random stump]

on an endurance hunter/plains run away herbivore have it go down a very, very small amount over time, only having any real amount dissapearing from attacks (although special attacks would probably rely more on charges like dryos dodge then actual stamina being spent)

on an ambush predator/forest run away herbivore/burrower, have it start dissapearing slower then the endurance hunter, but as you sprint longer, it goes down quicker. (Obviously you are likely a higher speed then the endurance creature)

you rely on stamina for your attacks as well, but for a big, heavy hitting attack like an allo tackle or something, you would require a significant amount of stamina, meaning you cant run a long distance and then do it, you have to actually use it for ambushing

[livid crater]

Deino is practically unplayable right now unless you somehow manage to make it to fully grown. They should scale the stamina regen time based on size (for all dinos), there's no reason a baby croc should take 5 minutes to regen stamina. It basically makes you a complete sitting duck for other crocs, even more so than you already were on Spiro

I'd rather they just revert the stamina changes entirely though personally. I'm a new player and really liked the way it worked on Spiro, Gateway is just not fun to me in its current state at all

[keen plover]

Omni is in its most busted state ever

[livid crater]

From what I've seen, pretty much all dinos are not happy about the stam changes. There's some outliers but way more complaints

[dusky surge]

is it that strong?

[dusky surge]

goodness

[keen plover]

You nuke everything

via damage / bleed. Since buck stam cost is less

[dusky surge]

was he bucking lol

[keen plover]

YES

[dusky surge]

WHAT

[keen plover]

Bucking is worthless

also pachy now trots with Omni on it

[coarse blaze]

I love that omni, previously strong is actually now just busted

I love how stegs swinging on dismounting omnis was what could separate good omnis from bad omnis

[shadow vortex]

So it can’t even run to trees… The hell?

[keen plover]

Yeah pretty much

Imo

[shadow vortex]

Devs are really high

[keen plover]

2 raptors should be needed

if they want that system

[distant torrent]

omni mains got their wish

[shadow vortex]

How many click-to-win dinosaurs are they gonna release again hm…

[stark knoll]

@chrome jacinth That's currently in the game

[jovial vessel]

oh man it really dont feel like it is x_x

[odd pebble]

Eat grass and die it is

[scarlet onyx]

nice joke, good one.

[dusky surge]

it literally is

how can you spend "all your time resting" and not notice

lol

[distant torrent]

I’ve found it to be a lot more noticeable on playables like pachy but practically not noticeable at all on things like omni and ptera. mostly ptera

ptera’s stam usage is genuinely terrible. the regen wouldn’t be as bad and would be understandable if taking off and everything else regarding flight took significantly less stam. it’s either that, or the regen for it needs to be better

[round ginkgo]

Dang are you one of my ptera group that flew for one minute then had to sit down and regain stam for like 5 mins. It really sucks out there for ptera stam right now

[distant torrent]

nope I’ve only been playing solo ptera

[round ginkgo]

It's no exaggeration to say that 90% of my ptera life has been regaining stam

[distant torrent]

the running take off is genuinely painful lmfao

one of the best ways to evaporate your stamina

not drain your stamina

literally evaporate it

thanos snapped

[slim dragon]

Running takeoff was never any good and I still don't know why it's still in the game
It's only purpose is serving as a trap for people who don't know how to play ptera to trick them into losing all their stam

[distant torrent]

it’s saved me a lot of times when it worked correctly

it just needs to be more reliable and cost significantly less stam

it was okay-ish in spiro, but it’s not okay at all in gateway with ptera’s new stam regen

[slim dragon]

I've never found a situation where running takeoff was preferable to launch takeoff

[distant torrent]

I had a lot because I’d annoy the hell out of people and constantly peck them then occasionally get thrown to the ground out of flight after a peck or crash into something a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one

[slim dragon]

But you stay on the ground for a lot longer

[distant torrent]

you sometimes have to gauge whether you want to stand still for a take off or run to keep just enough distance away for flight if standing still means you’re guaranteed death

or guaranteed to crash into something trying to kill you

[serene osprey]

Herbivores really need a debuff for hanging around corpses. It gets very very old to be a baby carni and finally smell food nearby, rush to go eat some just so you can stay alive only to find out some random degenerate herbivore is sitting there waiting for you to show up so it can just kill you and go back to waiting for another baby carnivore to show up and repeat the process. I feel like they should get sick and start to die if they hang around a body for too long.

So I posted this the other day and I was wondering if anyone could explain why 34 people disagree with this? Im not sure if they were just being jerks because they are the people who enjoy doing this but I was hoping to find an actual reason aside from "Im a crap player and just enjoy making the game terrible for others"

[dusky surge]

because if i puked and died for defending my nest, i'd be pretty annoyed

i cant move corpses

[slim dragon]

Because of this

[dusky surge]

the issue with causing corpses to make herbis puke and die is that it kinda lets carnivores be horrible to herbivores

a bunch of juvis running at your nest simply to generate as many corpses as possible and make it impossible to be near

[quaint karma]

Sounds perfect

[dusky surge]

a group of small animals running around with meat chunks to proc the debuff

[quaint karma]

Hilarious

[dusky surge]

nah, corpse camping is funnier

because the idea that you can't do anything about it is hysterical

[raven thistle]

A singular cerato can do something about it.

[quaint karma]

Against a Stego? I think not.

[raven thistle]

Cleaning corpses. Not against a stego.

Always allow a local trash man to do his duty.

[dusky surge]

walk away and find another corpse, or just walk away and the stego gets bored and leaves lol

[slim dragon]

Depends, can cera still stunlock stego ?

[dusky surge]

yea

[slim dragon]

So it can cancel bodyguarding

[dusky surge]

yea

bodyguarding is such a non-issue that adding a system to make herbivore even less fun isn't really the way to go

[serene osprey]

Simple solution, the nest removes the debuff. A fresh spawn Omni cant fight a full grown herbivore of any kind so it isn't a skill issue on my part.

[dusky surge]

then me and my stego friend nest on a corpse for the fun of it lol

stegos do this because they're bored and want a reaction

and people give them a reaction

[serene osprey]

Just say "Im a shitter who cant get kills as a carnivore so I just body camp"

[dusky surge]

i dont even like stego

its a hypothetical my friend

[serene osprey]

it genuinely is hilarious that your argument for it is "Herbivores get bored"

[dusky surge]

it's literally the reason

if you don't stay near and don't give them what they want, they get bored and leave 95% of the time

[slim dragon]

Once again, wavepoole is a toxic speedhacking canni mixpacking bodycamping deino-fishing stego main who sits behind their computer trolling people 30 hours a day

[dusky surge]

i literally play primarily carnivores, and i never struggle with corpsecamping

[serene osprey]

Except in the dead of night when you are a small carnivore just trying to not starve to death and some random herbivore is sitting in the shadows waiting for you to try and get a bite to eat. Then boom you get one shotted and have to start all over again

[dusky surge]

that would happen with another carnivore too

[slim dragon]

^

[dusky surge]

i don't quite see why it's so offensive when a herbi that's worse at doing that does it

[slim dragon]

Except carnivores have better ambush and chasing capabilities

[dusky surge]

a death is a death, i dont really care who deals the finishing blow

carnivores kill carnivores, carnivores kill herbivores, herbivores kill herbivores, herbivores kill carnivores, who cares

[serene osprey]

It wouldnt bug me if a carnivore did it because that is a fair strat for getting food. Herbivores are HEEBIVORES they have no reason to body camp except for wanting to kill things which if that is what they wanna do then they should play carnivores and actually eat the pile of bodies they build up

[dusky surge]

the more bodies they build, the more food for other carnis

them being so killhappy technically also helps feed carnivores

[slim dragon]

Herbivores killing carnis is a fair strat for survival
It's eliminating a potential threat

[dusky surge]

^

as someone who spends most of their time playing the literally "one tap and die" carnivore known as troodon, i just learned how to deal with it by either just leaving or waiting for them to leave

[serene osprey]

Except in nature herbivores tend to avoid corpses.

[dusky surge]

in nature they really don't care

[serene osprey]

Not true. Herbivores tens to avoid areas where things have been dying

[dusky surge]

in nature, herbivores will substitute their diet with meat

[slim dragon]

What's for certain is that they don't die just by smelling a corpse

[serene osprey]

No but hanging around a dead body can get you sick and kill you

[dusky surge]

and some herbivore players do that, like me. Too many corpses = something is there I'd rather not deal with

[dusky surge]

so make the same apply to carnivores

the toxic meat air should be toxic to all

[slim dragon]

If it's been dead for several days and you're wallowing in it yeah

[dusky surge]

except maybe cerato

if a fresh corpse is killing a herbi, it should kill a carni

through whatever dark aura its creating that apparently magically kills herbivores

[serene osprey]

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree because clearly y'all are the issue I am referring to

[slim dragon]

clearly

[dusky surge]

clearly, the troodon main is body denying too much

carnos tremble when they see me atop their fullgrown teno kill

[slim dragon]

When someone says "agree to disagree" or "to each their own" I can't help but read it as "I'm know I'm wrong but I don't want to admit it"

[dusky surge]

lmao

[serene osprey]

Except I'm really not. It is a constant problem that I have seen and it needs to be fixed.

[golden coral]

Is it really a problem though? Carnis will corpseguard, herbis can too. And any solution has to take into account potential abuse in defensive situations and at nesting, and so on.

But it does seem to come down to "I don't like that a herbi killed me, but a carni doing it is fine", which is... well, not a valid argument.

You died in either case, or you lost the food. It does not get "better" because it was a carni doing it compared to a herbi. It kind of seems like it's the whole "I got killed by KoS" compared to "I got killed for food", it doesn't matter, you got killed all the same.

And in most cases, it's worse if a carni does it, because it will eat the food, not just stand there temporarily. So if another carni does it, the food is gone, not just temporarily unavailable.

[quaint karma]

^ Herbi's can puppy guard if they want, but it's an understandable opinion to be frustrated by it.
Him saying "agree to disagree" is exactly that, accepting you have two different opinions that are unwavering from each other's argument. Just immature to use it to be derogatory afterwards.

[serene osprey]

When I spawned six different times and was starving trying to find food. Finally smell something and head over to check it out. Area looks clear and as soon as I start to eat I get bum rushed by an herbivore that 1 wont even be able to eat the body they just created 2 doesn't have to leave that area really because they can eat plants and stay alive to sit and watch the body

[golden coral]

And if it had been a carni, you'd have had the exact same happen to you.

[serene osprey]

Yeah but at least they can eat the body and didn't just do it to do it

[golden coral]

And it'd have just fed on the fresh kill instead of grazing, while waiting for the next target to come by. It's how I hunt as troodon in sanctuaries, listen for others eating sounds

[golden coral]

See, while that's technically true, it doesn't matter for the result

So it's not relevant for the issue

You still die six times in a row to the growing carni that keeps killing you and feeding it, while it may feel "better", because it eats you, the end result is no different from a herbi doing it

[serene osprey]

To you it doesn't matter and that's fine but I have only had a carnivore do that to me a total 5 times whereas herbivores do it constantly. Hence the issue.

[golden coral]

Maybe you've just been unlucky on that account

I've had it happen more often the other way around

Normally there's always a carni at any given food source, most of the time a cera, which means you're not getting that food

Because they are a pain and a half to get rid of

[quaint karma]

Like it's understandable to be frustrated by it Kats, but if that's how they want to play that's just kinda the end of it. Not anyone's right to make half the playerbase have a substantially harder time because some of them are jerks cause of boredom (which is understandble Herbi's have nothing to do)

[golden coral]

Meanwhile herbis, I've found, are more inclined to run you down. I killed a teno out of three as carno, the other two tenos backed off. Que the random nearby stego running me down so I bled out, because well, it wanted me dead I guess.

Was that frustrating, absolutely, mixherding and a stego going after me for hunting tenos, but well, it would have been no less fun if a cera had done it, or a pair of raptors.

And my point Kat, was purely that you're focused on the playable doing it, not the actual thing

[serene osprey]

If they want the gameplay experience of just killing things all the time they should play the creatures that require killing to actually survive. Also I never said it should be an immediate effect.

[golden coral]

Being run down by a third party is frustrating, no matter what that third party is, for example

Being more irritated because it was a stego instead of a cera (that could have taken the dead teno and been happy for example) makes little sense

[slim dragon]

Like stego for example

[golden coral]

Same applies here, being more irritated because it's a herbi jumping out of the bush at you instead of a carni makes little to no sense

[slim dragon]

Every animal that is not designed to run away from every threat has to fight to survive

[serene osprey]

Except stegos have no reason to HUNT or AMBUSH none of the herbivores do

That is my entire point

[slim dragon]

Are you really getting ambushed by stegos ?

[dusky surge]

they're also really bad at it so you can easily avoid it

[golden coral]

But the reason doesn't matter, does it?

[serene osprey]

A 45% grown stego sitting in a bush at night watching a body for any carnivore the same size or slightly smaller that it can one shot especially when its camera is locked while eating. Yes. They ambush.

[golden coral]

I had my kills stolen repeatedly as carno by a pair of ceras, three times in a row, with time in between

I can assure you, I was very unhappy with that pair for runing my day so much

It didn't make me feel better because they wanted to eat my food, it made it worse if anything because it now made them better off

So it just made it even harder for me to find a way to stop them from doing that

[quaint karma]

There comes a point when it should be recognized the conversation is going nowhere.

[serene osprey]

Yeah I see that Reaper

It seems as though the concept of Herbivores shouldn't really be HUNTING other creatures is being lost here. They are mindlessly killing because "they're bored" but they choose the creature they know they get bored with.

[slim dragon]

Oh I get it now
You want to make the herbivore experience even more insufferable so people stop playing herbis alltogether
Makes sense

[quaint karma]

To end the discussion, it is a survival/horror game that let's you be a dinosaur. Not a serious Dinosaur RPG. People can do whatever they like, regardless of how frustrating it is to the opposition. That's why unofficial servers with rules exist, they are an option.

[slim dragon]

It would solve every problem you've mentioned having

[serene osprey]

Ok Bub whatever you say, I rather enjoy playing Herbivores myself and I wouldn't mind getting a debuff if im body camping because I recognize that it is a ridiculous thing to do as a plant eater.

[golden coral]

No, I can agree that herbis shouldn't be looking for trouble. Though I do think it's fine to charge down juvie carnis if they get close enough, killing a future threat and all that. And by all rights, sitting at a corpse as herbi shouldn't be a thing. I just take issue with the idea that "x doing y" makes it bad, rather than "y" being bad in and of itself.

[serene osprey]

To each their own though Im just gonna go ahead and KOS any and all herbivores at all times. 🤷🏽‍♂

That's my solution to it. Mass kill all herbivores and give them no opportunity to body camp 😊

[golden coral]

Well, you can do that so go ahead

As Reaper pointed out, you can play as you see fit

[languid vapor]

Would be appreciated that Pteranadons get stam abit faster...

[shadow vortex]

@last rain lol that’s true. Funny enough but it was better getting nutrients before they’ve made a special ‘fix’ for it in one of the latest hordetesting patches…

At least hunger drain was faster and nutrient drain slower, so every time I fell to 96% hunger I replenished the third slot at ease instead of first two slots

[safe scroll]

the new stam is hot trash though, baby dino needing a year

[tropic horizon]

That is vile.

[shadow vortex]

That’s another change that proves developers don’t play their own game.

[tropic horizon]

Like I’m getting ptsd flashbacks to when I used to watch update 2 vids and seeing how 4 Utahs could just stick to a stego while it bucked and the stego would just die anyway

Hold right click and win

[tropic horizon]

I mean I wouldn’t stretch it that far but clearly they didn’t think this through very well

[shadow vortex]

All last balance changes made me stretch it :^) Carnos acceleration, this thing, tenos and stegos can’t use their attacks while someone is latched onto them… Bruh moments are tend to happen really often since the Gateway dropped

[tropic horizon]

Yeah that’s fair, they’ve made several blunders

Also this might be an intentional mechanic or a bug but it feels like I pretty much have invisible barriers around my Dino at all times because I cannot slide without running for a good few seconds. And even when I tried pressing my buttons for sliding it would be wildly inconsistent with whether or not I’d actually slide and change direction.

[shadow vortex]

Are you playing as a carno now?

[tropic horizon]

It was with pretty much all the Dino’s I tried when the update dropped which Tbf was a small amount but yeah carno was amongst them

I tried Carno, Cera and Pachy and had the same issue with all three of them

[shadow vortex]

I see. Welp yeh I felt that dinos became clunky with Gateway either… Especially carno tbh. They deleted my drift boy and now I’m disappointed

[tropic horizon]

I remember barreling over a teno and having to STAND IN PLACE to turn around to bite it on the tail because I physically couldn’t turn around while running

It feels like tank controls

[shadow vortex]

Lol exactly as I would describe it xD

They also didn’t add back the ‘alt-bite while running’ thing, so it’s even worse now

[tropic horizon]

Carno may have gotten overbuffed this update but at the same time it’s the single most unresponsive and clunky thing that I played while testing out the update

[shadow vortex]

Every other day I’m getting more and more thoughts about quitting this game until they make it really enjoyable (fixes, balance, optimisation)

[tropic horizon]

Arguable feels slower and clunkier than a deino

[shadow vortex]

True

It was so nice drifting around tenos and biting them in 6.5, and it was fair for both sides because ‘winrate’ was actually 50/50 and depended on who played it better

Now I just don’t know

[tropic horizon]

I used to tell myself that but then came to the realization that for some reason no matter how bad the update was I managed to still enjoy the game despite all of that though I might just have some serious stockholms syndrome with this game

[shadow vortex]

Mostly in carnos favor

[shadow vortex]

Lol yep… It’s the only dinosaur game with pretty realistic models and interesting interactions, but it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s goddamn broken in many ways, sadly

[tropic horizon]

Every update manages to have something game breaking in it or some issue but Tbf this isn’t an isle specific thing really

[tropic horizon]

I am going to seriously miss being able to actually move around without being stopped in place as if I slipped on something

[primal heart]

I really feel disrespected.I don't think 2 seconds is enough to read my advice and give a big ❌

[dusky surge]

carno is in one of the strongest states it's ever been and you think it still needs buffs

[primal heart]

Can't agree it's the strongest states

[dusky surge]

it's got insane accel, the charge still does the highest damage of any non-apex creature along with knockdowns, its running stamina got basically DOUBLED, and the only nerf it got was a 20 second cooldown which is so inconsequential if you know how to space yourself from your opponent

[serene osprey]

I have revised my debuff or sickness statement. Feel like y'all made some very valid points, instead I feel like they should make a small noise every so often when they sit on bodies for too long so you can hear and know a herbivore is sitting on a body. Just a thought

[primal heart]

“only nerf”,You really don't know what's going on between omni and carno.

[cosmic pelican]

Carno still has it way better than pachy, poor thing gets 1 shot by pounce

[dusky surge]

and that's after all the bleed res buffs

[dusky surge]

its an omni problem, not a carno problem

omni is insanely broken this update

don't buff carno to be on omni's level, nerf omni to be on a reasonable level

[cosmic pelican]

"Broken" is an understatement lol
Not even u5 utah was this broken
Omni is a God now at minimum

[primal heart]

It's true, but I love Omni now,it's fun.and I want carno,and teno, pachy can be fun too.

[dusky surge]

then that's just nuts overpowerscaling

carno is already incredibly strong

the fact that omni is so much better than it is shocking

[primal heart]

A game should be balanced in its playfulness, and nerf feels bad

[dusky surge]

take it from someone who's done game design as a career and as an education path, nerfs are necessary

[primal heart]

So buff teno and pachy,and they already buffed

[dusky surge]

nerfs feel bad psychologically, but that doesn't make them unnecessary

[primal heart]

I like current pachy and teno,very smoothly

[cosmic pelican]

If we were to go down that path, everything would literally 1 shot everything or stunlock it till it dies

[tropic horizon]

Nerfs are kind of needed at a certain point you can’t just keep buffing everything

[slim dragon]

If the never nerf anything we're gonna end up with 500+ damage attacks being the standard for omni-sized animals

[dusky surge]

if we never nerf anything, we end up with BoB

[tropic horizon]

Where literally everything is god

[dusky surge]

it's "fun", sure, but it's also exceptionally dumb

you have to keep a character at a point where skill remains a core factor

[primal heart]

Well, I don't think things are only black or white in the world, and I actually agree with a lot of what you say.

[dusky surge]

carnotaurus is already too strong, it remains astounding that omni makes it look weak in comparison

[tropic horizon]

And holding down right click till something dies without any counterplay to the victim requires no thought from the Utah yet the victim of the Utah has to do every maneuver possible to avoid the Utah or else they’re subjected to a long slow one shot so yeah Utah deserves a nerf

[shadow vortex]

Excuse me what?

The hell xD

[tropic horizon]

Teno is secretly deino (real)

[shadow vortex]

Lol just tried a fight with a carno as a teno on Norden, that's incredibly stupid

Anyone wanna play on Norden with me btw?

[shadow vortex]

Carno just mocks you all the time as he charges and then keeps the distance... Bruh

[tropic horizon]

I would if I could :<

[tropic horizon]

At least it’s not Utah

[shadow vortex]

Oh, sad

[tropic horizon]

Utah arguably would feel worse to die to. You have to sit their and watch this guy hold onto you for dear life while you know that you physically can’t do anything about it but watch him kill you. But that’s also subjective

[dusky surge]

you can jump in water i guess

[alpine sleet]

for me teno is fine but carno is super op with the new instant charge wtf

[tropic horizon]

And if there’s no water around oh well, die and try again ig

[alpine sleet]

no way to dodge it if you are a teno, its the teno hunter 3000 now

[dusky surge]

yep

carno and omni are the big winners this patch

pachy and teno are closer to being not awful, but once again fall short of true power

[shadow vortex]

Yep teno is nice, I complaint about carno

[dusky surge]

@shadow vortex i honestly don't think cera is that bad now

like, i honestly think it's fine

[shadow vortex]

The problem is vomiting which completely cancels non-bite attacks

[dusky surge]

i mean, i guess? but honestly, it's kinda just whatever, the animal is certainly no longer the behemoth it once was, considering basically everything got a runtime buff but it

[tropic horizon]

Cerato really doesn’t have much on it’s competition now

[shadow vortex]

Except for herbis which it isn't supposed to hunt but anyways all herbis mostly have non-bite attacks lol

[dusky surge]

hell, pachy and teno can now stand a decent chance against it

since they're so ridiculously stam efficient

which is a good change, mind you

[tropic horizon]

Pachy can just body fracture you and then dip

Teno has the strength to fight it off

[dusky surge]

any fracture is basically a win for pachy

[tropic horizon]

So yippee they aren’t complete fodder

[dusky surge]

like i'd argue cera is surprisingly now the most balanced carnivore

which is a massive change of pace tbh

its actually meant to be scav/bully rather than endurance hunter now

[alpine sleet]

true

carno id just make it so they need to run a bit more to charge

makes no sense how it can instant charge and instant accelerate at the same time

[tropic horizon]

I’d argue it’s kinda weak against most things now unless it has a group, groups are kind of what made cerato so obnoxious in the first place since groups allowed ceratos to run anything down, switch off if they get injured, stack vomit easier than they could before etc. Solo? Sure it could run you down, but unless you were very low on stam/food you could pretty reliably fight them off as a solo player, groups are what made them so cancerous since they’d run around the map with effectively infinite stamina sniffing down anything that died and then running down the player who made the kill

[tropic horizon]

Also infinite vomit lock, forgot to mention that wonderful mechanic

[dusky surge]

i'd usually put deino down as busted, but the new map seems to really have hit it hard and made it far less of a goddamn pest, so that's nice. It's still statistically a powerhouse, but that's kinda unavoidable atm, so for once, I won't put it top

Beipi and hypsi get punished too much for using their mobility, which is basically 95% of what they have going on, so yea, obvious placement. Ptera is still ptera, so it's never going to be outright unviable because, y'know, flight

but that's how i'd rank 'em all

nvm cera is still in strong which is weird

[primal heart]

Stego now grow so fast

Only take 3 hours

[dusky surge]

stego doesn't feel like it grows super fast

but i wasnt really counting

[primal heart]

Deino grow so fast too

[brazen talon]

🦖 + 🌬️ + 🪑 = ⏲️ 🪦

[primal heart]

Big dinosaur is too cost-effective

[slim dragon]

Beipi has something going for it tho
Swimming on the water surface regenerates stamina, which makes it super efficient for traveling

[dusky surge]

true

[alpine sleet]

i think carno should be a tier above utah, because since they made it so tap pounce doesnt work you have a window to use a tree and not take any bleed damage, but carno is like something else, you just run and pray

[dusky surge]

nah, omni is nuts

like omni is literally that good

it can basically shred everything with how ineffective bucking is

[alpine sleet]

i didnt find many omnis so i could be wrong tbh

[dusky surge]

an omni can literally just kill a pachy using a single pounce and a few bites

[alpine sleet]

i just fought a pack of 3 with a cera and killed them using a tree but cera is super good against pack hunters imo

[alpine sleet]

yes thats doesnt sound good

[torn egret]

Didn’t they change initial pounce bleed? I think they made it so that it’s less tap and go now

[golden coral]

They did, but they also apparently changed a bunch of other things that has made omni even more broken than prior times

[normal ginkgo]

can omnis still bounce in your face and latch onto the side?

[halcyon elk]

They got rid of it.

[coarse blaze]

Genuinely feel the same, cera was a problem on Spiro but I'm not seeing there here anymore.

[coarse blaze]

Yes, or at least previously yes.

They can exploit face-pouncing and rear-pouncing

[coarse blaze]

You can stay latched for longer now so it doesn't really matter that they removed the tap-pounce bleed. It drains far less stamina to pounce now and with bucking doing nothing it's a real issue

[normal ginkgo]

yeah, i like to play smaller dinos so thats my biggest problem with them, i avoid them mostly.. a shame because i really like fighting em

[high dragon]

guys game is so suck

is this jurassic park

[alpine sleet]

is it true that a omni can solo a stego? if its true something is going very wrong

[jaunty vessel]

why would it matter? they were able to do it in previous patches

[alpine sleet]

i never saw a single utah 1v1 a stego unless the stego was afk

and it matters since the game is intended to have some kind of realism and balance

[jaunty vessel]

well i have seen and done it multiple times but isnt it a good thing that there is even one small threat to stego on land so they dont die of boredom

[alpine sleet]

yes but do you notice that if the utah is alone it can bully a stego since it has a delayed swing and buck is useless now, imo thats a lack of roster problem

[jaunty vessel]

they can swing when the raptor is going for the pounce if they cant hit them its skill issue so they can either learn to play or stop crying and since migrations stegos are often in big groups and if they get bullied by a single raptor then they definitely deserve it

[golden coral]

Assuming face pouncing has been fixed, but even so, it's far too easy to bait a stego, and at no point should a solo omni ever be a threat to a stego. I've no idea who thought it'd be a good idea to delay reactions (only real threat to an omni, and even then far from guaranteed), and then also make bucking so incredibly weak as it seems.

[alpine sleet]

whatever lets go back to legacy why not

stegos should herd so a solo salty utah doesnt end their life

[golden coral]

Stegos should preferably never come in more than pairs as adults

Being one of the worst playables for group defense in the first place

[alpine sleet]

i know they tend to friendly fire

but for real why do they keep buffing utahs, everyone was asking for a pounce punishment but we get even less punishment?

[golden coral]

Main character syndrome for omnis I'd guess... Can't have the most mindlessly simple playable require any form of braincell usage, would be too much to ask

[alpine sleet]

i see, good point

[golden coral]

I mean, I do think omni is in a sense a bit of the "main" playable, similar to rex you know? Omni is after all a JP raptor, and well, this is kind of a JP "fangame", at least in some sense

So it wouldn't surprise me that it and rex and maybe a few others get some extra attention and "power" to fit that, the whole pounce fantasy thing and all for example

[alpine sleet]

yes i know what you mean, the most mained playable has to be omni by far

[alpine sleet]

thats what i fear the most, a rex being super strong, having good stamina and speed and just going face to face with a trike

[lunar yacht]

@golden coral can you let me know what you think about my last post?

[short meadow]

As someone who plays ALOT of carno, I agree with everything besides the traversal debuffs. I honestly think the charge could deal 150-175 and it'd still be nuts. It makes fighting cerato feel trivial sometimes

[sonic flame]

That terrain impacting mobility thing is actually something I've been hoping for as a universal thing

would be neat for Carno to act as a test bed for it

Also Cerato jump would be very nice to see, tho in the absence of that I think it'd be neat to make it uneffected by the shallow water slowdown, so it could sprint through water that other animals would trot through, and can get more of a headstart into water

[golden coral]

@lunar yachtWell, I can tell you I believe the minimum NV needs to be improved for all critters, cera included (I'd like to be able to play at night, not just sit in a corner...). I like the idea of various terrain having more effects, not just for carno but for all playables depending on where they should and should not be doing good or bad. So on those accounts, I agree. As for what specifically should happen, I'm less sure, it'd depend on what result we're looking for. I do think not all of what you listed should happen, mostly cause I think we can both agree that changing too much at the same time is not ideal. So I'd test out perhaps only turn for now, or maybe speed, depending on what would serve the prey the best.

Specific for cera, I'd like a more semiaquatic style, especially if it comes along with teno also getting that. It'd be nice if the critters that do have good swim speed actually uses it more often. For carno, I stand by what I pointed out last time, the main issue is charge power/knockdown and that's why it scales so well. Solution to that? Power down to 150 or so, knockdown threshold 1K or lower. Granted, I don't know how bad the turn radius for run, much less charge is now, but I personally would like the turn to be good for carno, since I favour the pursuit hunting style, and with the other changes, it'd not be needed to dodge half as much for those things that wouldn't be agile enough to do so well enough.

Is teno able to run in water like that?

[sonic flame]

at the moment, no, but it can jump

so a sprinting jump carries it well into deep water, bypassing the slowdown entirely

[golden coral]

Well, it should also be able to do that then, semiaquatic teno is good teno!

[lunar yacht]

i wouldn't be against terrain affecting everything, but give it more consequences for a specialist like carno

[sonic flame]

One of the harshest things you could do, imo, is outright disable charge outside of the plains

[lunar yacht]

i like teno and cerato having better water mobility beyond swim speed yeah

[golden coral]

I'd say that depends on the critter and the terrain. More so that I believe the mechanic should apply in general.

[sonic flame]

if the Carno is on unstable terrain, it can't get the speed to use charge

[lunar yacht]

i think just tie its power to speed, and reduce speed outside of plains

[golden coral]

I kind of feel like you'd have to improve carno in other areas then

[lunar yacht]

so paths in jungles would still be lanes a carno can ambush

[golden coral]

Otherwise it kind of seems like it might be too bad during travels

And carno would probably have to travel through non plain areas too at times

[short meadow]

I feel like that's balanced for Combat but not for just general game play like, moving.

[lunar yacht]

trot doesnt need changed

[sonic flame]

could just add an exclusion for the dirt that makes up the big trails

[lunar yacht]

its trot can stay the same, you shouldn't be sprinting everywhere amyways

[golden coral]

I don't think trot was mentioned?

[lunar yacht]

jungles specifically have a leafier, muddy terrain you could use to justify worse mobility on it, paths are tamped, flat earth, so its fine

[lunar yacht]

nah

[short meadow]

The only issue I have with specialized environmental movement debuffs is unless the players are FORCED to go to those areas, to avoid Carno they can simply just, not go to those environments

[golden coral]

Anyway, need to go see how bad carno turn radius is now, if it's worse than before, I'll be sad :p

[short meadow]

It's kinda rough, but it's not horrible. The worst thing about carno is the diet drain imo

[golden coral]

I do like that idea, that carno would be more likely to travel on the roads than in the jungle

[lunar yacht]

there's plenty of interspersed open areas, almost all water requires going in the open

i'm fine with carno trotting in the jungle as normal

[golden coral]

:(

[lunar yacht]

give it slightly less acceleration on jungle floors is all

[short meadow]

If you travel from highlands to the Delta, you are going to be at 15-20% diet if you don't sprint the whole way

[lunar yacht]

thats a separate issue

we're targeting prey acquisition here

[short meadow]

I was just voicing what I dislike about carno

[lunar yacht]

yeah food drain is weird for some things

i would like if stomachs were larger maybe, idk, diff topic tho

[short meadow]

Carno isn't rapid- but it feels like if you don't kill a teno or Cera every 30 minutes you might as well drown

[lunar yacht]

i need to test carno some more, i haven't touched it much

[golden coral]

@lunar yachtI like the idea overall at the very least.

[lunar yacht]

[short meadow]

I love all the animals, I've had a bad taste from Cera with how many awful interactions I've had with other Cera players

[golden coral]

Need to get myself some feedback on how the turn radius is now, and how easy it is to dodge a carno or not.

[short meadow]

It's "easier" but if they are lined up right, it'll still knock you over. It mostly connects with the tail hit box I've found

[short meadow]

I think 1 teno, and 2 Ceratos are a 50%50% match up for a mediocre carno.

In the 1v1, cerato does not do well without a corpse.

2+Tenos will show a single carno the wrath of God

[golden coral]

Tenos are scary!

At least if they are good and smart about it

[golden coral]

Trying to figure out if the turn got worse from the hordetesting

[short meadow]

I'm pretty sure not alot changed from horde testing

[golden coral]

Hm, maybe not. Still worth checking out I guess

[lunar yacht]

holy crap that post is controversial

we're almost 50/50

[alpine sleet]

its almost impossible if the carno knows how the new charge works

like it just stops moving if you are close to him and when you are in from of him he zooms like flash in half a second and thats all

[dusky surge]

@lunar yacht i personally dont think you've really addressed any of the carno's issue. Your new game plan is "hope to god you dont migrate to somewhere too open or you die"

[distant torrent]

literally just make ram’s damage do next to nothing when compared to its current absurd damage because the knockdown + the accel is already powerful enough, and lower the knockdown/stun to half its weight or below. then buff its bite damage so it’s properly a small game hunter and not a medium game nuke

ram’s stamina cost could also then be tweaked for the better since it’d no longer be a nuke

[alpine sleet]

a change that big would be ideal but its not going to happen, id suggest just removing the instant charge so we can atleast enjoy the survival experience

[distant torrent]

oh it’s definitely not happening. at least not any time soon I’ll still see it as a big win as long as at least one of those changes happen (except the bite damage buff. carno does NOT need that if everything else goes unchanged lmao)

[alpine sleet]

lol i hope they dont buff the bite damage XD

[dusky surge]

id be fine if they brought it back to 200 if they nerf charge damage

the nerf to 175 was weird and unnecessary

[alpine sleet]

well if they nerf the charge damage and make it not instantaneous id be fine

[lunar yacht]

to say i haven't addressed any of its issues is ridiculous. i don't think anything i could put into one post would address all of its issues, but let's not pretend that jungle carno is only marginally less viable than sticking to the plains. for context, i made a post within the past month addressing the damage values and people really hated that. some people said it was because i lumped in too much extra stuff on the post that was unrelated, and made the post in its whole hard to totally agree with which i get. but a lot of folks are outright against taking away any more power from carno, if it were up to me, it would only be able to kill omni and galli, and entirely lack the bite strength to brute force a teno or cerato. the point of the post is to bridge a gap between die hard carno fans that will never stand for the "small game hunter," and the people that it effects the most who also have the least recourse when encountering a carno, teno and cerato.

[dusky surge]

i get that people don't like the idea of a carno nerf to its power, but it has to be done, simply due to the fact that this thing hits about as hard as an alberto should, in the package of a carno

[lunar yacht]

cerato and teno don't have THAT much to worry about if they are "caught out," because they can at least dodge/flee until they manage to get to nearby terrain that would make carno less capable, in my proposed changes

[dusky surge]

you actually can't in some cases

i can name a few areas on Gateway where you'd be dead to rights

[lunar yacht]

i know, i'm saying if you could at least play around terrain more- if terrain actually meant something aside from being purely cosmetic, then maybe there could be some more counterplay, by having more situational awareness

[dusky surge]

it's also, imho, rather unintuitive and clunky to have carno fluctuate in speed and efficiency when the foliage around it changes. It'd be hard to express that to the player, and imho, would feel wrong

[lunar yacht]

and then, IF the carno meets you in the jungle, a cerato and teno can go, "yeah nah"

[lunar yacht]

i disagree, all of the jungle terrain is covered in a certain kind of covering, dead leaves and a variety of short green plants, the foley artist could create different footsteps to signify when the carno is on terrain that give it worse mobility

[dusky surge]

i mean, zero other creature cares

[lunar yacht]

and if you're on grass, all clear

[dusky surge]

its just the carno that suddenly feels off

[lunar yacht]

hyper and Erik brought that up as well, then you apply the system to everything, travelling by jungle comes with a few costs, this could be a variety of things, or things different than what i suggest, but my proposal was worse turning, less top speed, and worse acceleration

then you could have creatures that have "mutations" that lessen that marginally, or have creatures that are unaffected altogether

as a passive

like troodon and omni for example

or dryo perhaps, hypsi, herra

things you would expect to be well adapted for moving through a jungle

i'll be sure to add these points to the post, because they are surely important

@dusky surge additions written in at the end to address possible issues

[strong solar]

yeahh having carno only hunt galli and omni is another extreme that shouldnt happen ever

just like how buffing carno or keeping it the same is extreme

[strong solar]

I like this idea

the ram would be a part of a toolkit and not a win button

[dusky surge]

i'd honestly much prefer it if a solo carno was only expected to hunt things less than 1 ton, but could sufficiently sustain themselves off those prey items

[lunar yacht]

i don't have a problem with taking away a lot of carnos ram damage, but you could honestly take away from either. personally i lean more towards taking away bite damage because that removes the spammy aspect of brute forcing a fight with bite after bite. so you have the ram that is more of a "skill shot," keeping with the 20 second cooldown on activation. normally its not the ram that kills you anyways, its the bites that come after. if you reduce the bite damage, then the carno can't follow up and explode a teno or cerato, but that follow up bite could take out a galli, omni, or dryo pretty easily for example. you really can't have the best of both worlds here, it shouldn't be able to reliably kill both galli and cerato. two entirely different skillsets for a creature.
what exactly do we want carno to be? what should it be? i feel like you have unrealistic expectations for making the creature feel balanced. if we're being honest, carno really sucks at hunting things that you would expect it to be the best at hunting. it really struggles at hitting galli or omni with those charges, if it does, its pretty decisive. one ram, one bite, and done. but really those charges work best against larger prey that it can hit consistently with it. i think the fantasy of the creature is getting in the way of what makes more sense, which is that it specializes in hunting things smaller than it. there is nothing wrong with that and the fact you consider that as an extreme is kinda silly to me. i think people have too much of a knee jerk reaction to the "small game hunter" idea as a meme, but its true, and it should have been the design philosophy behind carno the entire time.
the power it has right now, i would expect more for something like allosaurus. like come on lol. why can't we have a plains hunter that is nimble on its feet when it is in its element, the plains... lol. make it really good at hunting little things that are on the run, MAYBE two of them can take on a cerato or a teno, but this should be really hard. it doesn't deserve to have all that speed and power in one. it is completely bonkers. @dusky surge @strong solar

[strong solar]

you said that you'd like it to be "only be able to kill omni and galli, and entirely lack the bite strength to brute force a teno or cerato" which yes, is extreme. This is a video game and being able to hunt the already small roster is ideal

[distant torrent]

tbh i wouldn’t call ram a skill shot. a skill shot against more nimble targets like omni? sure. against slow targets like cera and teno and probably dibble when the time comes? nah

[strong solar]

now should carno excel at hunting cerato and teno? No. It should excel at hunting smaller animals, but have cerato and tenonto as an option

[lunar yacht]

being able to reliably kill both galli, omni, tenonto, and cerato, should not be a thing. it makes more sense for it to be able to reliably kill the first two, and with teamwork, allow it to manage a tenonto and cerato, if they are skillful enough. but tenonto and cerato should be able to fight one off. the carno should be doing jedi mind tricks level of mental plays to manage that fight by itself, if its going to be a speed demon. otherwise it might as well be a different creature

[dusky surge]

nerfing charge would literally assist the small game hunter thing more than nerfing bite. The charge is used as a nuke to soften up bigger targets with a whopping 350 damage plus hard knockdowns. Its inaccuracy makes it terrible for dealing with smaller creatures. Bite, should do enough damage to actually matter to a small creature while a carno is in pursuit.

[lunar yacht]

yes, it shouldn't be able to brute force a teno or cerato, by that i mean face tanking them

[lunar yacht]

yes, that's exactly what i said

[strong solar]

I never said it should be reliably killing cerato and teno. A cerato and teno balance wise should def be able to fight off a carno as they're both slower & should be stronger

[lunar yacht]

you need to be more specific then

[strong solar]

yeahh idk you're putting words in my mouth lol

dont do that

[lunar yacht]

if that's how you felt the entire time, then i don't understand what you're arguing for

because you are saying the same things i am

[strong solar]

I primarily play teno and I would like a nice matchup with carno that isn't just getting nuked, but carno should not be only hunting galli and omni 😂

[lunar yacht]

i am saying they should not be able to reliably kill a teno and cerato, it should not be able to brute force them, you called that extreme

[strong solar]

there was a time in the game where carno would get walloped by teno if they played poorly or if the teno played its cards correctly

think update 5 or 4, it was nice

because teno could tailslam and stop the charge

[lunar yacht]

they shouldn't be looking at ceratos and tenos and they instantly explode

yes

[strong solar]

read what I said up ther' again

[distant torrent]

carno can’t solo brute force a teno with just bites. it can easily however with ram. 4 rams to the body put it on life support. 5 to delete its existence

[strong solar]

and teno cant stop the charge either, or evade it

[lunar yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-in-the-big-blue-house-okay-ok-awkward-bitbbh-gif-6618908777464324965

[strong solar]

I havent fought any carnos yet on gateway but the matchup does seem poor on paper. Not sure why carnos are a bit rare

[distant torrent]

yea you’re not evading a charge if a carno knows what it’s doing with accel lol

[strong solar]

sadly

it's crazy because at one point the balance was actually decent but it got nuked for no reason lol

[distant torrent]

I’ve fought several. I’ve only managed to dodge one ram barely but that was because a carno was b-lining it for me predictably. you have a slim chance of dodging if it uses its amazing accel and doesn’t make a brainless b-line. even then it can still register as a body hit on your tail if you dodge a b-line charge

[strong solar]

Yikes

[distant torrent]

two will delete you without you having any say unless you have a rock

[lunar yacht]

wow carno sounds really powerful

i wish someone had an idea as to how we could change it fundamentally

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562

its almost as if changing numbers isn't enough

[distant torrent]

I mean several ideas were proposed but I doubt any will be implemented now matter how good they seem

[lunar yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/well-thats-a-very-cynical-attitude-surprised-negative-bad-attitude-cynical-gif-15320117

[hasty coyote]

I may be a lot late to the convo, but I severely dislike the idea of creatures being straight debuffed for being out of their terrain. I’d rather they make it an advantage based on their mechanics. Great example is carno v Omni. If carno can’t go to the jungles, then it has very few areas to either escape a pack of omnis or at least scrape them off. With omnis how they currently are, if you can’t scrape them off quickly, you die. Even if they nerf Omni, having trees to scrape off Omni is incredibly useful. So being punished for trying to use terrain just feels bad imo. Instead keep it how it currently is, omnis feel better in the forest because it’s easy to break line of sight and ambush the carno while the carno has more trouble lining up its charge since it has less distance to see and more obstacles in the way.

[dusky surge]

<@&933486433342222376> i dont think this guy is telling the truth

[stark knoll]

@fluid sail If you are experiencing issues with your controls since the latest update (can't move camera, unable to court, etc) then please try wiping your config files in localappdata.

1. If running The Isle, exit the game.
2. Press the Windows key
3. Type %localappdata% then press Enter.
4. Find "TheIsle" folder. Open it.
5. Open the "Saved" folder.
6. Delete the "Config" folder. Note: This will reset any of your custom settings to their defaults.
7. Restart the game. The issues should be fixed.

[slim dragon]

@main helm Why do you want to stay latched on for longer as a troodon ?

[main helm]

it's not latched on for longer but it takes too much stamina whenever you latch on as a troo in comparison to omni

[golden coral]

Troodon can pounce plenty of times already, and yeah, you don't run the risk of losing stam while latched like omni (not that that's a risk anyway with how immensely bucking was nerfed)

I tested, it's the same cost for pounce for both of them

[main helm]

well it's either something with the stamina or just fix the getting off pounce hitbox which is never gonna happen

you can tank a hit or two as omni but with troo you just get yoinked with the alt bites

[golden coral]

Apparently you cant alt while being pounced, and there's a delay between dismount and attack, or at least omni is said to have that

[main helm]

that's weird, the alt bite still worked for me all the time whenever i played cera

[golden coral]

Maybe it's a bug then, only affecting some playables

Anyway, for troodon pounce, when I tested, I could do 20 of them on a full stamina bar

I'd say that's plenty enough honestly

[main helm]

aighty then

[hasty coyote]

You can’t alt if there’s enough weight. Not sure on the specifics for troo, but 2 omnis on pachy, and 4 on teno, cera, and carno stops them from sprinting or using any attack other than bite.

[unborn iris]

4 omnis can pounce a teno? Use to only be 2 for everything but stego and maybe deino.

Pounce has been so buggy, multi-pounces have been too dangerous to mess around with.

[golden coral]

I heard it was 1 omni on pachy for it to not be able to sprint

And apparently 3 for carno

Though could be wrong on the latter one, not as sure there

[distant torrent]

I know omni’s stam drains pretty slow for pachy bucking, but I noticed a teno ai bucking drained my stam pretty normally

is the reduced stam drain for omnis getting bucked only for other players, or is it for certain playables? or playables that aren’t able to sprint due to too many omnis on?

[odd pebble]

1 omni prevent teno from using alt claw. I tested

[golden coral]

I think AI bucking is strangely effective, it apparently was before at least. As for the rest, I have no clue, I'd imagine that the nerf to buck would apply to all playables unless it was stated specifically in the pathnotes. And I don't think the whole not being able to sprint/attack relates to the bucking, not sure why it would. The no sprint/attack seems like it'd be part of the pounce to pin thing if anything.

[golden coral]

Can it still sprint?

[odd pebble]

Yes

And pounce cancels attacks mid animation

Atleast omni pounce does

[golden coral]

Think I read something about that in the patch notes, pounce stopping things. Because clearly pounce needed to be even more powerful... xD

[odd pebble]

I did some 1v1s on norden as teno against omni and one time an omni pounced me 3 times consecutively for like 5 secs i think even when i was bucking. It is sooo ineffective its not even funny

[odd pebble]

Of course. If anything pounce should be 1 shotting everything

[distant torrent]

I love when carnivore playables get overtuned

[hasty coyote]

I know when I was messing with it I was sometimes able to still attack and such with one, but that may just be a bug. I wasnt able to truly test it, more noticed from chaos of combat

[hasty coyote]

that one i did get to see in action, I was on a carno that was sprinting with 3 omnis, 4th one stops it from sprinting.

[distant torrent]

4 would be enough to kill a carno from full stam pounces wouldn’t it? since 1 omni pounce can nearly kill a pachy and apparently kills another omni or galli

just with raw damage

[hasty coyote]

that is interesting, they may have made pounce disable certain attacks based on the amount. That would be something I'd need to test tho

[hasty coyote]

3 pouncing is enough to kill a carno with bleed within seconds. From the fight I had, carno had 2 of us on it, ran around a bit, I got on, it ran to a tree within 10 seconds of me getting on, then said it watched its bleed go from 40 to 20 within seconds of us hoping off

I know 4 is def enough to kill a cera with raw damage though, watched it happen

[distant torrent]

delightful

[alpine sleet]

and the fun part is they will make omnis able to pin larger creatures, which makes them even stronger, dont be surprised if a solo omni can one shot a pachy in one pounce in the near future, right now it can pounce it one time and face tank, main character syndrome at its peak

[violet yew]

you are leaving context out to justify your claim

[golden coral]

Such as?

[violet yew]

pinning a larger creature is gonna be based on how damaged said larger creature is, pachy just got buffed maybe even twice recently, an omni has never been able to one pounce or even 2 pounce a pachy... the claim is based on nothing. but dont take my word for it, this is from reading what the devs have wrote and hearing what they have said in their lives

[golden coral]

Yeah, based on damage, which for all we know could be very little damage required. Omni have absolutely been able to more or less two tap (tap pounce) a pachy. And as it stands, omni is now more OP and broken than ever before, more or less. So I think it's reasonable to be wary, at the very least. Considering how utterly useless bucking is, and the fact that pounce already limits you when there's "too many" omnis on you.

It's nothing new that omni fluctuates between being useless if pounce isn't working, to outright OP or broken when it does work

Right now, omni is stupidly broken, troodon somewhat too, and there's no reason to think it'll get better, more likely it's going to get worse. The entire pounce to pin is questionable in the first place, and even more so now with how useless bucking is.

[torn sky]

#balance-feedback message @coarse blaze Have you played Raptor? He is at his worst. You depend on luck to survive (or a bad player)

[violet yew]

you are the one assuming, they never said it was based by very little damage... you are saying more or less but it isn't. i dont know what your experience is or even how recently you had it but i couldnt even kill a solo pachy as a full grown raptor after pouncing and biting multiple times. in fact i kept getting head/legs fractured. we fought for hours to no avail...

[golden coral]

No more assuming than you are. And then you're, well, maybe not the best at omni.

The sheer concept of pounce to pin isn't ideal, especially not with how mindless pounce is

[violet yew]

" which for all we know" but WE don't know. consider taking things at face value rather than making assumption that feed into a negative outlook.... you are assuming more, ive told you what the DEVS themselves have written and spoke

[torn sky]

This is the worst update and balance for the Raptor. Most complaints are when the raptor is juvi. Once big, if you are unlucky, or your opponent doesn't know how to play, there is an 80% chance of losing the battle, whether you have 1 or 5 raptors.

[golden coral]

You're... entirely wrong. Omni is stupdily broken this update, it's so very good.

So with all due respect, if you think omni is bad right now, you have no clue

[torn sky]

why? Don't juvis spend stamina while hanging?

[golden coral]

I'm not being negative, more so realistic

[violet yew]

realistic based on assumptions? ok

go play an omni and tell me how "broken" it is

[golden coral]

What? Pounce barely cost anything, bucking is outright useless. You can't attack while the omni dismounts, you can't run or alt if there's too many omnis on you. A single omni can pounce a pachy, and then just alt bite to kill it even if it bucks.

[golden coral]

No assumptions at all, just how the game works right now.

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message

[golden coral]

I don't need to, there's feedback on it already, with vid included

[slim dragon]

"Omni is bad"

[golden coral]

Omni is immensely broken right now, stupidly OP, more than it usually is

[violet yew]

so youre not even speaking from experience? LOL cool stroy

[torn sky]

If a bunch of raptors do whatever they want with you, it's because you need to improve your gameplay. Have you done a pounce as an adult? Nobody wants to do pounces because it means dying.

[golden coral]

I don't need to when I know how things work

[golden coral]

You're, again, entirely wrong

A "bunch of raptors" is, aside from a group of carnos, the most OP thing right now with how pounce works

[violet yew]

exactly, pounce is broken to the point where it does more harm than good for a raptor lol

[golden coral]

You... seriously believe that

[torn sky]

Surely if you walk down the street and see 5 thugs, you can do something xDDDD

[golden coral]

Despite the fact being it's entirely the other way around

[golden coral]

Depends on the circumstances, but what kind of comparison is that?

[violet yew]

raptors can't even kill a cera..... a cera will kill the whole pack before its half stam and health

[torn sky]

Ponce is pounce, or die

[golden coral]

Four omnis shred a cera right now

So again, you have no clue

[torn sky]

What kind of medium-sized dinosaur do you want that can defend itself against a command? Ask a wax what he does if he finds two carnotaruos

[golden coral]

What?

[violet yew]

absolutely not, with ceras chuff buffs and bleed resistance its nearly impossible or just not worht it

[golden coral]

They do, they absolutely do

It's been tested

[violet yew]

youve already outted yourself for having no experience actaully playing the most recent omni, its ok

[torn sky]

Yeah. the worst update for the Raptors

[golden coral]

No matter if you want to believe it or not, omni is quite broken, more than usually right now, and stupidly good

[torn sky]

Ask a Cera*

[golden coral]

But I know people that have tested

[cosmic pelican]

4 omnis can kill a cera with pure pounce dmg

and that needs no explanation

[golden coral]

I know how the game works, you clearly do not. Next time, test things, or have someone test it for you. You'll see.

[torn sky]

WHAAAT?? hahahahaha u need play raptor xDDDD

[golden coral]

Yes, it's true. Maybe you're just not up to date with how omni works.

But if you truly think this is the worst for omnis, you... well, you've missed out to say the least

[violet yew]

I can solo take a full grown carno before me and 3 other raptors can kill a cera. speaking from "experience"

[torn sky]

In Spiro it was possible (a little) now it is not. Unless the Cerato doesn't know how to play or it's his first time in the game

[golden coral]

Did you watch the pachy/omni vid?

[cosmic pelican]

I tested it today with friends, it absolutely does. even the math holds up for it

[golden coral]

It is very possible, more so than in spiro

[violet yew]

show me the math

[golden coral]

Yes, you can do that. It's doable.

Not like omnis couldn't solo carnos before, though with new accel, it's probably harder

[torn sky]

-So the certato was his first day playing

[golden coral]

But with new buck nerf, you probably can solo them quite well

[cosmic pelican]

1 full pounce does around 400dmg. 400x4= 1600, which is more than enough to kill a cera

[violet yew]

either way, youre right about 1 thing, raptors are going to get better in the near future and i cannot wait

[golden coral]

No, it's a matter of the damage/bleed

[golden coral]

Yeah sure, mindlessly op playable is fun I guess. I sincerely hope they nerf omni, it's very needed

[cosmic pelican]

you dont even need to kill it right away, just get it below 50%hp and it will bleed out no matter what

[violet yew]

if you full pounce you wont have any stam left to sprint away... youll be dead lol but yeah go off

[golden coral]

Won't matter, the cera is dead

[cosmic pelican]

doesnt matter when the cera dies before you dismount

[golden coral]

Exactly so

[torn sky]

Try it

[violet yew]

the cera is bleed resistant, its literally easier to kill a full grown stego with proper timing

[golden coral]

Don't need to, I can calculate and know how the game works. How about you try to do that too?

[cosmic pelican]

bleed doesnt matter when it only has 1300hp

[violet yew]

sure

[cosmic pelican]

and its only resistant above 50%hp

[golden coral]

And that doesn't strike you as odd? Or overpowered? But yeah, it doesn't matter if it's bleed resistant when it can't get you, or die to pure damage.

[torn sky]

Only Juvis stay longer, an adult Raptor means putting a rope around its neck for more than 5 seconds.

[golden coral]

But you think omnis are bad this update, despite them being overpowered and broken so

[golden coral]

No, you're entirely wrong

... Are you... do you know how bad bucking is right now?

[violet yew]

just becuase you say he is wrong doesnt mean he is

[golden coral]

Do you, comprehend that you can pounce for 15+ seconds, despite something bucking, before being out of stam?

[torn sky]

Hahahahaha what an argument

[cosmic pelican]

less than 2 pounces is enough to deal 650dmg, and after that you still have plenty of stam to run away and watch the cera bleed out

[golden coral]

Yes, because again, I know what I am talking about

[golden coral]

Correct, but he's wrong because people have tested and know how it works

[violet yew]

thats not true at all. you are making things up at this point

[golden coral]

No, no I am not. It was literally tested.

[torn sky]

Apparently you know very little about the game, and apparently you have been a victim of the Raptors, which may have been their first day xDDD

[violet yew]

when was it tested? show me the test

[golden coral]

So what I just stated there is what the people that tested concluded

[golden coral]

That's not an argument. And I know more about the game than you do, clearly.

[violet yew]

thats what im thinking too, they must have got killed by a raptor and just came to vent it out

[golden coral]

@vague helm Hey, what did you conclude on the bucking/stam drain? Can you weigh in, since you tested it properly?

[golden coral]

You're entirely wrong. Again, which is no surprise.

[torn sky]

Of course, you expect a medium-sized dinosaur to have a chance against 6 predators xD

[vague helm]

As the bucker or the buckee

[golden coral]

Either. These guys say you can only be on for 5 seconds or so.

Worst update for omnis

[violet yew]

when did i say that? lol

[golden coral]

Apparently omni is terrible, despite everything I've heard being that omni is bordering broken

[violet yew]

you can literally quote me haha anyway i would like to know the tests, the numbers, or the math anyway, thanks

[torn sky]

Pls read again

[golden coral]

What? No? What does numbers have to do with it?

[golden coral]

Oh so now you're going back on your words...

[golden coral]

One of you did at least, I don't care who, you both seem to think omni is bad when it's really really good

[vague helm]

A raptor can stay on a creature for 20 seconds while being bucked.
45 seconds if not.

A full buck(with a raptor being force-dismountd) drains the prey's stam by 16%

[golden coral]

There you go.

From someone that did test it properly

[golden coral]

Oh btw, the "5 seconds" comment

[torn sky]

You have good understanding

Pls read again xd

[golden coral]

Better than you do. You said juvies stay longer. Adult raptors can pounce for quite some while.

[torn sky]

Nobody said they couldn't xd I said that spending more time is a noose around your neck xd

[golden coral]

In any case, omni is very good right now, as stated. Bucking is more or less useless, the pounce to pin is already showing how good (too good) it might be, and dismount is safer than ever with the delay. There's no way you can argue that omni is bad.

[golden coral]

Except its not, you have 20 seconds to sit there and do massived bleed and apparently damage too

So you can be on for 10-15 and still get off and move away

[torn sky]

pls play the game

[vague helm]

It isn't

[golden coral]

I do.

[vague helm]

You can stay on for essentially 18 seconds on a bucking creature.

That is massive damage and blood.

A raptor jumping off at around 7% stam does around 390 dmg

[torn sky]

With so many hitboxes on rocks, palm trees, trees, bushes? Mathematics doesn't work here xd unless your prey plays with only one hand. There you are free

[golden coral]

So now you want to add other factors?

[vague helm]

That isn't pounce times then. That is environment just cucking Pounce in general

[golden coral]

Sure, but I was talking about the pounce, the bucking, the time you can be on. As well as the other changes to pounce, and how good that makes pounce and omni in general.

[torn sky]

That's why it's putting a rope around your neck xd

[golden coral]

But it's not, because you can take terrain into account

[torn sky]

In real gameplay

[golden coral]

You're basically just saying you're bad at planning your hunts

Which is very much a skill issue

[vague helm]

You forget that Raptors can now also slow things down.

2 Raptors pouncing a Cera, the Cera can only trot.

[golden coral]

Now with omnis making things unable to run or alt, and the dismount delay safety, you're going to be far better off than not

[vague helm]

Obviously if the opponent uses the environment you're cucked

[torn sky]

It's easy to kill players who don't know how to defend themselves, which is fun, but the majority know how to defend themselves and survive, since survival against a raptor is much higher than in spitro 6.5

[golden coral]

So even with terrain, you can get off far more safely than not, it would seem, at least there's less risk

[vague helm]

But that has nothing to do with pounce times and all to do with environment being hard counters

[golden coral]

It's not. There's no way you're worse off now than back then

[torn sky]

u play raptor?

[vague helm]

If you're ambushed and caught in a field you'll be taken massive amounts of bleed and damage

Raptor staying on a Pachy, dismounting at maybe like 15% can then just facetank it and win

Not to count a Pachy having a slow-ass trot and being unable to run with a raptor pouncing it

[golden coral]

I play troodon, does that count?

[golden coral]

Is it one or two omnis for the no run?

[vague helm]

If the raptors get a pounce off on you, they succeed massively.
If they can't because you use the environment, they lose.
Once more, nothing to do with the pounce time and stamina, more with the environment hard countering

[vague helm]

On Pachy it's 1

[golden coral]

Oof, poor pachy

[torn sky]

As long as the pounce is done, and you don't get stuck and unable to move because of the bugs.

[golden coral]

You keep shifting the goalposts, don't you...

[torn sky]

Troodon is new playable xd

[golden coral]

It kind of works like omni, so...

[torn sky]

XD

[vague helm]

Unable to move? Which? WHere you get stuck on the prey when pouncing themand can't get off?

[golden coral]

What? You play very similar, except you pounce more as troodon because well, omni do bleed over time

[torn sky]

This is how pounce works, 30% good, 70% bad

[golden coral]

So it's a decent comparison

I like how the other guy apparently ran away... xD

[torn sky]

In update 6 the pounce was decreasing, in 6.5 it returned with many more bugs, like getting stuck on the dino you were attacking. Now all that is multiplied, you stay under the map, you don't see where your dino is or it just gets stuck

[golden coral]

So basically, the argument is "it bugs out", which is not how balancing is done or taken into account

Well, this was an interesting discussion I guess, points proven and all. Omni is quite powerful now, potentially broken, and now terrain is an absolute must or you just die to one or two of them

[vague helm]

??
Idek what you are trying to say

[golden coral]

I gess they really want you to just hug a tree or rock to stand a chance :p

[violet yew]

are you okay? go for walk, enjoy some sunlight, maybe even eat some fruits and vegetables… this is no longer a discussion, it’s becoming more of a back and forth antagonizing argument. but go off

[torn sky]

Play and try

[vague helm]

I have.
I have done deliberate tests.

These tests won't help me if I can't understand what you are trying to say.

[golden coral]

I am perfectly okay, thanks for asking. I do enjoy going on walks, though sun is not my favourite (I prefer the cold and dark). I enjoy fruits, vegetables not so much, but hey, to each their own. And no, it was a discussion, or at least I tried to keep it one. You asked for better test/information/stuff, I asked the guy who tested, who confirmed my claims. You then stopped responding, so I guess you recognize your errors then.

[vague helm]

I would appreciate it if you could just formally write out what exactly your issue is, so I can understand you.

(I am not being sarcastic.)

[torn sky]

Players who die easily for a raptor, and come to get even here

[golden coral]

Which is not the case at all

[violet yew]

i have to admit, i have been pouncing and immediately jumping off. with this new found info that Idnod provided i’m sure to be more successful with my hunts. thanks for that

[golden coral]

So you were unaware that tap pouncing got removed? :p

Well, maybe now you'll see how good omni really is

Best of luck!

[violet yew]

i have been tap pouncing… i didn’t know if a group of us punched and stayed on that it would making killing a cera an easier task

[golden coral]

Of course not...

[torn sky]

You're talking about how the game should work, right? with tests and things like that. Testing with friends or player X doesn't mean everyone will be like that. And the Pounce mechanics are still deficient, they have not improved it or corrected its errors and hitting a good Pounce, without any type of bug, is almost impossible.

[golden coral]

Well, it explains things. Looking forward to see how you change your opinion now that you know how to play

[violet yew]

initial pouncing damage has been reduced per the most recent patch notes… there is a lot of good info in said patch notes regarding most animals. pachy included. which was my original reply to begin with

[torn sky]

These people think that as they explain the mechanism to you it must be like this, since reality is too far from the calculations xd

[golden coral]

I mean, originally you said you couldn't kill pachy very easily, whereas I claimed you could. And then we disagreed on how the pounce to pin will work. And you accused me of assuming because I go by how it currently seems to have started working. Which is, can't run when pounced by one or more omnis, making defense more or less impossible.

[golden coral]

Except it works how it works... testing proves that

You want to use bugs as an excuse, whereas I am talking about how the mechanics and stats work

[vague helm]

Incorrect.
The pounce bugs have been relatively fixed.

You can still get hit while pouncing something, but that bug is less prominent.
The only big bug I have encountered, testing and normal playing, is that sometimes you can get stuck on the creature you're pouncing and are unable to dismount.

I have played raptor on official's and I have also tested them on admin servers.

The pounce works great if the creature is in the wide open and doesn't use the terrain against you.
If they do, and do so well, they win.

If they don't, you win.

[golden coral]

Yeah, sure, pounce bugs out... it happens. That doesn't change how things do work, when they do not bug out.

[torn sky]

relatively fixed. I report and find bugs and errors

[vague helm]

Tap pounce is gone completely(for Omni)
You have to basically stay on for at least 1 second to inflict bleed and damage.
Simply tapping RMB won't do any bleed or damage.

[violet yew]

pinning a larger creature is gonna be based on how damaged said larger creature is, pachy just got buffed maybe even twice recently, an omni has never been able to one pounce or even 2 pounce a pachy... the claim is based on nothing. but dont take my word for it, this is from reading what the devs have wrote and hearing what they have said in their lives” … this is what i originally said. you don’t need to make anything up lol you can literally just go up the chat and read it. thanks anyways

[vague helm]

That's good.

[violet yew]

that’s what i meant by tap pouncing. i meant that i’m on than go off after the minimum time i can be on. thanks for helping me clarify

[golden coral]

I read and I responded to it, you made claims and I disagreed with them :p

[torn sky]

Yeah, my pack play Raptors all days, we try to find best ways to play and find bugs and errors. Now, is best 6 and 6.5 that this To hunt something big

[golden coral]

Unless you were only using tap pounce, omni is better off now than before. Now you can slow things down, prevent them from alt attacking, and they can't buck you off at all, more or less.

[vague helm]

Are you saying you had more success on 6/6.5 than you do now in hunting as a Raptor?

[torn sky]

Now a Carno that can spam a ram after a skid and an alt attack is impossible. There you have a real problem

[golden coral]

Bucking is pointless, and with enough omnis (doesn't seem to require that many...) on the target, there's no defense.

[torn sky]

Yes

[vague helm]

I agree.
But that's Carno being busted, not Raptor being bad

[golden coral]

Carno being questionable does not mean omni isn't also questionable

[torn sky]

I didn't say the raptor was the problem.

[golden coral]

Both of them can be OP at the same time

In this case, that holds true. Carno in groups still scale too well, and the instant accel does make juking them harder (but apparently not impossible). Doesn't mean omni isn't also OP and just as good, both solo and in groups. Both of the playables are broken and needs adjustments.

Also carno being good vs omni is reasonable, omni is within prey range. Now teno and cera on the other hand...

[torn sky]

The Carno can run, brake and throw a ram, stop doing the ram, turn and do it again, stop, give a directional hit and run away with ram

I don't know how much I've played Raptor, but in Gateway the hunts are not enjoyable, you practically can't indulge in hunting something bigger than you. I tell you playing every day with my pack

[golden coral]

There's a cooldown of 20 seconds, so carno can only charge so often

I mean, other omnis seem to be doing fine, and can hunt things

[torn sky]

don't work

[golden coral]

What do you mean don't work?

There's literally a cooldown, so unless the carno is cheating, it can't spam charge

[torn sky]

Because I fight every day with carno xd

[golden coral]

?

Anyway, maybe you and your pack need to adjust to the new stamina and all that, and learn how omni works, and you'll find more success

[torn sky]

xDDD

OMG

Learn to play better, your math won't help you defend yourself against an Omni xD Thanks for so many laughs this time lol

[golden coral]

What else do you want to hear... the fact is, omni is very good, borderline broken. So if you struggle, that's kind of on you and your pack

Me knowing the math means I know what is a good and not good response, such as never use buck, just stand next to a rock or tree, as not very fun as that is

[golden coral]

Learn to play better should perhaps apply to you. I don't struggle vs omnis, I just stand next to terrain and wait until they give up. Not very fun, but it works.

[alpine sleet]

nope, omni is extremly op and they are planning to give them a new advantage in combat, thats a fact

i literally killed a lot of pachys in a 1v1, they literally have no counterplay

except for going to a tree to save them

[golden coral]

Oh here we go again xD

[violet yew]

they cant leg fracture or even head fracture? lol "literally no counterplay" words matter

cool story though

[alpine sleet]

go norden and choose pachy

[golden coral]

Leg fractures, from what I know, aren't that easy to get. Head fracture don't kill the omni, so kill confirm is hard to get.

Which is an issue pachy does struggle with. And did before this patch where omni just... shreds it

[violet yew]

they are easy to get LMAO

its ok to not know

[golden coral]

Maybe you've been lucky

[alpine sleet]

you notice that if the omni dodges the pachy just once the pachy is dead?

[golden coral]

You know, considering you've been wrong most of the convo, maybe you should not be so self assured

It's okay that you don't know the game works out at times :p

[violet yew]

experiences cannot be wrong but go off with whatever youre talking about

[golden coral]

Experiences are all based on how the game works, simple as that

Sure, you can get leg fracture, but it's not just "ram omni and you get one, guaranteed". And omni can juke, being faster so it sets the pace

[alpine sleet]

theres literally a video showing how a omni 1v1s a pachy easly xD

[golden coral]

Granted, pachy did get some buffs lately, but well, considering omnis state, that did little to nothing

[alpine sleet]

i dont get the point on wanting the devs to buff your main playable to an extreme, its not even fun for the rest

[golden coral]

So, bait a ram then pounce, or ambush pachy, and it just dies, more or less

[violet yew]

it does matter what i want or dont want, lol they are making their choices based and how the devs want it. cope

[golden coral]

Especially since it now can't do much even with one omni on it, much less if there's a pair, while before you could handle one omni, and maybe two if you had terrain and were good

[violet yew]

maybe they'll nerf omni just for YOU

[golden coral]

No, I would hope they nerf omni for the sake of the rest of the roster

[alpine sleet]

sure, they can do whatever they want, but if they dont hear the whole community they would lose potential customers, also we are free to argue about it

[golden coral]

They do, but that's why we have feedback, no? To give feedback and discuss those choices

[alpine sleet]

if they want they can make omnis 10x times stronger, we are free to say what we think about it, i never said they have to do what we tell them

[golden coral]

Wouldn't be the first time they've buffed, nerfed, and go around doing that, to both carno and omni

[violet yew]

argue? this is balance-feedback-discussion not arguments lol

[golden coral]

Both of those playables seem to live on a cycle of "underpowered" to "overpowered" taking turns, or as of right now, sharing the throne of being overpowered

[alpine sleet]

sorry i mean "discuss"

[golden coral]

And thus, we point it out and hopefully they'll rebalance again

[alpine sleet]

good answer tho xD

[violet yew]

a single raptor should be stronger than a single pachy... thats how it is

[alpine sleet]

why?

[golden coral]

It really, really should not

[alpine sleet]

arguments

[violet yew]

ask a paleontologist why

[alpine sleet]

XDDD

[golden coral]

Pachy can't choose the fight so it should by all rights be more powerful than the omni

[alpine sleet]

bro thinks the isle is a documentary

[golden coral]

In general, if a playable can't run away, it has to be able to fight

[violet yew]

why shouldnt it? it is literally prey and predator. pachy is a prey animal LMAO get real

[golden coral]

Ah yes, omniraptor is a well known real life animal xD

[violet yew]

are you saying dinosaurs never existed? hahaha

[alpine sleet]

hey bro i will ask a paleontologist who would win, an omni or a pachy xD

[golden coral]

Game balance. That's why. Prey should be dangerous, so the predators fail their hunts more often than not. You know, like in real life, as it were.

[golden coral]

I am saying that omniraptor didn't

[alpine sleet]

hahahahah

[golden coral]

Pachy, because well, omniraptor isn't a real animal ^^

[violet yew]

talking to you people is like talking to bag of rocks

[alpine sleet]

go to the savanna, strongest animals are herbivores by far dude, mostly because grass dont run away

[golden coral]

Please stop projecting, it doesn't make you look good

[alpine sleet]

he gave us 0 arguments

[golden coral]

If you do not understand that game balance takes precedence over irl anyway, then that's on you

But pachy should by all rights be far stronger than omni since omni can choose the encounter

[violet yew]

they have said they are going for realism, learn to read what the devs put lol

[alpine sleet]

his only argument was that according to a "paleontologist" a real life omni would beat a real life pachy??

[golden coral]

Unless we make pachy do a galli and run away

[golden coral]

Ah yes. Thats why omniraptor exist. Thats why carno charges, stego scorpion jabs, and so on. Oh and rex don't get a normal bite apparently.

[violet yew]

fact: pachy is a PREY animal fact: velociraptors are PREDATORS

[golden coral]

Very realistic, very accurate to how those animals really worked

[violet yew]

its really that simple

[golden coral]

Fact. Prey can be dangerous. Fact. Game has to have balance. Fact. Omni should have to work for it's food. Fact. No one will play pachy if it just dies to omni.

It's really that simple.

[alpine sleet]

realism, the game where a pack 60 kilos poisonous dinosaur can kill a 6 tons dinosaur

[golden coral]

Predators should have to work for their food, and prey should always have a way to survive, be it fight or flight

[violet yew]

the game is balanced according to the devs, this is their vison not anyone elses

[golden coral]

Correct. We can still criticize it.

[alpine sleet]

fact: the strongest and biggest animals in earth are herbivores by far 😉

[golden coral]

Yep xD

If you think the game is about realism... well, I don't know what to say, you're just wrong :p

This is even more hilarious than the earlier debate

[violet yew]

read what the devs write, hear what they say

[golden coral]

We literally have made up animals in the game

[alpine sleet]

so you argument is?

[violet yew]

its not really a debate is it? lol

[golden coral]

We have animals that doesn't work like they would irl

[violet yew]

ok

[golden coral]

Trust you me, there's realism, and there's "this playable works like it would in real life".

[alpine sleet]

its literally a channel dedicated to discuss balance and you say we shouldnt because they do what they want?

[golden coral]

We might have the former, not the latter.

[alpine sleet]

thats how you defend your point

[violet yew]

when did i say not to discuss? stop making up stuff in your head lmao

[golden coral]

You know they can change their minds right?

The entire point of feedback is to provide, well, feedback for them to take into account

[alpine sleet]

"the game is balanced according to the devs, this is their vison not anyone elses" what do you want to say with this? whats the point?

[golden coral]

So while you can make a post about how pachy should just die to omni, others can make a post about how pachy should obliterate omni (as it should).

[violet yew]

cool

[golden coral]

On top of that, we got unofficials that can change settings and all, and then mods in the future

So you know, it's not that important. If they want to make omni the most broken op animal, I'll just play on a server that disables omni, like how they intend to disable apexes on officials

But we can still talk about it and discuss what makes sense or not for the game

Which is why I'm here, at least

[alpine sleet]

so the only argument for the which pachy should die to an omni is because its a predator-prey relationship, if we leave the fact that its a game and the playables should all be viable, go and tell that to a hippo, by example

[golden coral]

I guess it's like how people want stego to just die to rex

Not taking into account that stego wouldnt be playable if it had no way to survive the encounter

[alpine sleet]

or look at wolves and bisons

[golden coral]

"Eat grass and die" I believe the phrase is :p

[alpine sleet]

i dont understand, i guess its the main character syndrome at its full potential

[golden coral]

Nah, in stego case it's people somehow thinking it's OP when deino exist, and not at all taking the whole playable into account

They just see big damage number and think that's the only thing that matter

So people just hate stego for no good reason

[alpine sleet]

no, im talking about those who want omni to solo anything for some reason

and just wait for rex

[golden coral]

That should be fun if nothing else. Omnis shredding trikes and rexes three times as easily as they shred stego

[alpine sleet]

i cant wait to see the omni mains arguing with rex mains

[scarlet onyx]

Has anyone tried to see how bad/good the changes to dmg×healthloss=output are? Or oos?

How well tuned is the blood loss from alt attacks? (stupid idea imo)

[hollow canyon]

lol predators of Homalocephale maybe, not a goddamn pachycephalosaurus.

And don't hide yourself behind the realism argument. If the game was that realistic Carnotaurus would be eating everything and anything but Deino and Stego. None of the other animals lived with something that much larger, stronger and so much better armed than them. It would be update 6 on steroids.

(also Tenonto would be half its size, Omni wouldn't exist, Beipi would be like 10 times bigger etc. etc.)

This game is so far removed from realistic that this argument is just amusing.

[coarse blaze]

Yes I have, if I didn't I wouldn't have made the post. You seem to be fairly alone in your option.

#balance-feedback message and Bird already posted a great example of it.

[coarse blaze]

So incredibly based.

[torn sky]

Omni exists because of all the crying of the players who did not know how to kill the raptors xd