balance-feedback-discussion

[golden coral]

Oh and yeah, at shallow spots, you might have suchos and barys being dangers

[dusky surge]

Spino will likely be one of the slowest carnivores in the game (at least I hope)

[golden coral]

So I doubt it'd just be "drink at shallows and you're safe", that won't work for too long, since there'll be other things than deinos that like their water

[dusky surge]

And sucho is a confirmed wader

[dusky surge]

Like cherius and sucho, two things you do NOT want mad at you

[knotty harbor]

the concept are shows it shooting out of the water at stuff, im going to assume it will get some sort of water ambush ability

[knotty harbor]

yeah well ill be playing stuff bigger then the waders so im not worried about them

my fav dino is acro and i never got to play it on legacy

[dusky surge]

So you can drink at depths too

If you're big enough that you don't worry about sucho, you won't have to worry about deino either

[knotty harbor]

nah i wouldnt risk it cause spino

id just bully a sucho off a shallow spot and drink while eating it

[icy prawn]

it was only knee deep in the water

[dusky surge]

Doubt spino will be able to do much to an acro if the acro doesn't want to fight. Acro is faster and beefy, would easily tank the hits and leave

[icy prawn]

gl with that

[dusky surge]

Spino is a brawler through and through

Sucho and acro will likely be very closely matched, possibly sucho favoured in its preferred environment

Both animals are very close in size

[knotty harbor]

on the right side its clearly coming from water that had it almost submerged

[icy prawn]

prefer it being heavily depending on land or water

[dusky surge]

Those are beipis, very much would die instantly to a spino bite regardless

Spino seems like a brawler type, not one for quick kills, but will win the prolonged fight

[knotty harbor]

true but im speaking on what its doing in the concept not what its doing it to

[dusky surge]

So if you leave spino alone, doubt it will be much of a threat

[icy prawn]

was talking about sucho mb. and uhh spino?? the dinosaur that has a massive sail on its back

[dusky surge]

An acro could easily drink from the depths without worry

[knotty harbor]

the water is much deeper on gateway

[dusky surge]

Agreed, I feel sucho should be exceptionally dominant in its preferred environment of shallows, potentially being one of the fastest waders meaning it can run circles around a waterlogged acro

[dusky surge]

Or shallower, depending where you look

[south sandal]

Ima kill so many deino as spino

[knotty harbor]

well i imagine if a spino wants to ambush stuff it wouldnt be where the shallow water is

[dusky surge]

I imagine spino wouldn't be very prolific at ambushing things to begin with, but sure

Like, smalls sure, but mids + will likely catch a claw or two as they make their retreat

Spino not a fast man

[knotty harbor]

i honestly think spino will be great at killing stuff that crosses the water or uses a bridge and just attacks them when they get to the otherside on land

[dusky surge]

I mean, if I'm on a bridge and I see a spino leaving on the other side, I'm turning around lol

[icy prawn]

not so much the bridge part but def

[dusky surge]

Most aquatics have advantages against non-aquatics as they cross rivers (logically)

Unsure about sucho or cheirus, due to their more wader style, but I assume they aren't sloppy swimmers

[knotty harbor]

seems it will mostly use its claws for fighting on evrima instead of biting as well

[dusky surge]

Which is good

Spinosaurids relying on bites is ridiculous

[knotty harbor]

yes weak freaking mouth lol

[dusky surge]

All spinosaurids should have comedically weak biteforces, but pack a punch with claws

[knotty harbor]

also might mean bary sucho and spino have very small attack range though

[dusky surge]

I'd put a Spino at 250N, a sucho at around 175N, and a bary at like 75N

[knotty harbor]

75? thats less then a human lol

[dusky surge]

They've got good long arms, I doubt their range is limited

[icy prawn]

human op?

[dusky surge]

Actually humans have a biteforce of 0 in the Isle lol

[south sandal]

Irl 162

[knotty harbor]

ok well facts lol

[south sandal]

Humans got rifles

[knotty harbor]

rifle has biteforce of 200kn

[dusky surge]

Hopefully a rifle does not exceed 500 damage tbh

[knotty harbor]

humans will probably murder everything while also being the most vulnerable at night

[south sandal]

Brain shot instant death

[dusky surge]

God that’d ruin the game lol

[south sandal]

Lmaooooo

[icy prawn]

yuck

[knotty harbor]

im going to assume they will oneshot most small stuff and actually have to try against mid teirs and dye to apexs

*die

[south sandal]

It’s interesting to think how they gonna do the human weapons

[knotty harbor]

werent they busted in legacy for the short time it was in? like oneshotting rexes?

[south sandal]

Cause these modern day bullets shouldn’t even be able to penetrate most Dino skin

[icy prawn]

overtuned

[knotty harbor]

i wouldnt say that

[icy prawn]

what else do you expect from legacy

[south sandal]

Did they have guns in legacy ?

[knotty harbor]

for a short time

i think it was just streamers and devs or something

[dusky surge]

Ideally, human weapons will be not worth firing most of the time

Because sound + smell + visual = lots of things coming your way

[knotty harbor]

yeah im hoping gunshot sounds travel across a large portion of the map

[icy prawn]

me want humans with swords aswell as guns

[south sandal]

I would run from gun shots

[knotty harbor]

id stick to bushes and make my way toward them and try to kill them lol

[frank prairie]

i wouldnt maby its a bad player that cant shoot... ez kill

[dusky surge]

Gen 1 are getting hand-crafted melee weapons if thats what you want

[icy prawn]

ehhh

[dusky surge]

9 foot orc man with spear

[icy prawn]

even better

[dusky surge]

Climbs up trees and jumps on you and impales your brain

[icy prawn]

herrera but even more monkey!

[knotty harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/ogre-warhammer3-ogre-kingdoms-greasus-goldtooth-greasus-gif-23748524

[icy prawn]

lovely

[knotty harbor]

gen 1

[south sandal]

So you want Tarzan

Wrong reply

[knotty harbor]

no what lol

[dusky surge]

gen 1 my beloved

[icy prawn]

our*

[south sandal]

I meant this

[knotty harbor]

yo a group of gen 1s with weapons might actually be scary for mid teir dinos lol

[south sandal]

What is that creature

[dusky surge]

that's a generation 1 human

[knotty harbor]

its my wife without coffee

[dusky surge]

also known as tribals/cannibals

[icy prawn]

thats uhhh okie dokie

[dusky surge]

they're what happens when you mess up replicating a human

[knotty harbor]

what you never see a 30 yr old woman with no makeup or coffee before?

[south sandal]

😭😭😭

[icy prawn]

unfortunately😔

im still recovering from that trauma

[knotty harbor]

i love my wife but ive always had this long running joke with her in the morning that she looks like a naked starving dog in the morning with no makeup

for some reason i can never remeber what happens after i say it

[icy prawn]

😶

def needa take your pills

[knotty harbor]

so i was curious and i googled it, humans have the potential to have a greater biteforce in newtons then a utah raptor

we beat it by 75 newtons

[south sandal]

Bruh 😭😭😭

[dusky surge]

The bite forces aren't supposed to be accurate lol

[knotty harbor]

false alarm its the dokota raptor the article title lied to me

[knotty harbor]

im talking rl

[icy prawn]

okay but do you think you can win a 1v1 irl against a dakotaraptor

[knotty harbor]

me personally yeah i have alot of guns :p

[south sandal]

1v1 hand to hand combat

[jovial vessel]

adding humans with guns and modern weaponry is both an idea I loathe and also I feel like if the devs do it wrong, humans are just gunna be mass murder machines

[knotty harbor]

let me size up a dakotaraptor real fast ill get back to you

[dusky surge]

I personally love the idea of humans

Their implementation so far is genuinely so cool

[jovial vessel]

Im not surprised that you do

[thin mantle]

I would be excited for humans

[knotty harbor]

18 ft long hell nah

[dusky surge]

whats that supposed to mean 🤨

[thin mantle]

Unfortunately firearms make me incredibly apathetic

[dusky surge]

same. Not big on the gun part, personally, I want as little of human gameplay focused around the guns as possible

[knotty harbor]

i mean i dont think they will break the game unless they allow humans to craft

[dusky surge]

More cunning/tech stuff imho

[jovial vessel]

Im fine with humans coming in, and their ideas for mutated human strains, that could be really cool. I just do not want guns and weapons etc

[thin mantle]

They really just seem to exist for the fantasy, which is lame af.
I really just want my stealth sim in a multiplayer game with base maintenance

[jovial vessel]

but then I personally do not enjoy many games that involve shooter mechanics

[thin mantle]

It's not that shooters are lame

[dusky surge]

That's fair, I'm not sold on many of the weapons. Mainly snipers. I can vibe with stuff like pistols, shotguns, hunting rifles (not military rifles), so on

[thin mantle]

Dinos just simply lack counterplay for that aside from just not existing

[dusky surge]

God yes

[knotty harbor]

i mean i dont think it will be that bad if they have to find everything instead of making it or spawning with it

[icy prawn]

i mean like

[thin mantle]

Rarity is no fix for bad balance

[jovial vessel]

small guns sure, but as soon as it turns into heavy weaponry that obliterates dinos and just makes it unfun is .... something I dread

[thin mantle]

So if you just randomly lose dinos at range from nowhere....how is that your fault

[jovial vessel]

I want the focus to remain on dinosaurs

[dusky surge]

They will have to find things, which I like, my concern arises with people being boring and just... hoarding.

Now, if weapons and supplies were distributed by big-ass, public airdrops rather than just randomly generating in some well-protected bunker, THAT'S interesting

[knotty harbor]

i think to get certain things they should have to go into the areas where the smaller creatures live to get the guns and ammo

[dusky surge]

Like humans, imho, should always feel "weak" and underprepared. At no point should a human feel secure out in the wilderness

[knotty harbor]

that way dilos and herraras as well as utahs kill them

[dusky surge]

Only in their bases and structures should they have a semblanace of security

And then a neuro rocks up :)

And out goes the lights

[icy prawn]

cant wait to obliterate humans as herrera

[jovial vessel]

dino mutant strains is so soooo far down the line I find it hard to get excited about it tbh

while i really want it, i just know its gunna be a hot while before we see them

[knotty harbor]

see i can already see this game messing up and going the route of ark adding advanced weapons and hypos and it will be like the introduction to tek in ark all over agian but without tames

[jovial vessel]

yes

thats what has me worried haha

[dusky surge]

I'm personally hoping the "anti-hyper weapon" that's been talked about in the past is actually just a weapon that exploits the hyper's primary weakness of starvation, meaning they starve out MUCH faster, killing them via their own biology. Rather that to "big gun that kills everything including hypers"

[knotty harbor]

i didnt even know that was a thing and now im terrified

[icy prawn]

smoke bomb!

[dusky surge]

Like strains imho are far more gracifully done than ARK's complete cluster of random stuff

[icy prawn]

but the LORE on ark

[knotty harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/awkward-umm-what-what-gif-14694719

[icy prawn]

🔥

[dusky surge]

The lore sucks and I hate ARK

[jovial vessel]

ark is a hot mess and its fantastic lmao

[dusky surge]

Genuinely cannot stand ARK

[icy prawn]

2k hours on the game?

[knotty harbor]

i liked ark during the beta when it was just max metal but tek ruined it for me

[icy prawn]

seems like you have an unholy amount of hours on ark

[dusky surge]

The most enjoyment I get from ARK is watching their cinematic trailer with Vin Diesel have goddamn lighting errors

[dusky surge]

I have like, less than 10, because the game appeared free in my library and it was just... So awful

I had to stop soon after starting

[knotty harbor]

i get my enjoyment by trolling large clans with C4 while they all sleep and killing their tames cause mega clans ruined the game

[jovial vessel]

sounds like you didnt give it much of a chance :^)

[dusky surge]

I've watched videos to see what I missed out on, glad to say, I'm not doubting my decision to abandon it

[icy prawn]

multiplayer on ark is trash

[dusky surge]

Why would I if both my experiencing playing and watching the game have left me disappointed lol

[knotty harbor]

my 100% fav moment was when some dude landed his lightning wyvern on my stone raft right after they released scorched earth and i killed him with a regular pike then stole his ascendent pike and killed his wyvern

[icy prawn]

thats actually crazy

but the spawn killers on multiplayer

almost impossible to survive as a beginner

[knotty harbor]

yeah and the clans always put metal pillers around the map so new clans couldnt grow as it stopped dinos from spawning

whole game was aids

and then you have atlas what a dumpster fire that was lol

[dusky surge]

ARK Survival Evolved feels like what happens when you install 300 mods that don't mesh well into one game

[icy prawn]

we will forget about that

[dusky surge]

Except that's the vanilla experience

[knotty harbor]

to be fair modded ark is actually pretty good

[icy prawn]

install 300 mods that don't mesh well into one game to counter that

[grand walrus]

@hazy echo it’s a cruel and unforgiving world out there for carnivores

[jade brook]

Does pachy headbutt have an effect now it's apparently not stunning ? ( haven't played it )

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy can no longer stun targets above its weight.

[jade brook]

hen it does nothing ? like a push effect or something ?

beside bone breaking

[cosmic pelican]

Nope, only knock over when the target is small enough

[jade brook]

Yikes, maybe that what he's missing

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy with stun was ridiciously overpowered though

[jade brook]

I'd love pushing something off a cliff tbh

[jovial vessel]

should stun on initial break/fracture and then not again

[jade brook]

Yeah but instead of removing stun, they could bring a way to make distance with bigger threat

[jovial vessel]

prevents stunlocking but also lets pachy run away

[cosmic pelican]

Agreed

[jade brook]

Stun only on head hitting, with a cooldown on getting stunned ? replace stun to flinch (unable to attack but ok to move ) with cd

many choice, completely remove feels like a missplay

[jovial vessel]

removing it completely did pachy so dirty and is probably why you dont see em much now

[dusky surge]

i think all fractures should cause a stagger

including falling off a cliff

[jovial vessel]

for sure bc ouch, that would hurt (and a pachy slamming that dome skull into someone would hurt) but people are concerned about stunlocking ig

[rustic rock]

After playing again, I'm realizing being a canni croc is the way, and personally I think fish as a diet should be taken out, force crocs to be canni's, make baby crocs take risks and live under fear of being eaten in the river and out of it. It should be incredibly difficult to reach adulthood with a croc. The fish diet is just breeding complacency with crocs and they'll sit and wait to grow for HOURS, if we force em to canni atleast it gameplay will be more interesting. It is a survival game, and I realize about every other dinosaur is pretty hard in comparison to the deino. I can just camp in a corner after getting some food, and come back in two or three hours and start camping rivers or whatever. (provided i get water of course)

[jovial vessel]

Yup exactly

[solar meteor]

deino is a mindless "dino" to play, agree

easy to hunt with, easy to grow, and it's the largest animal in the game

[dusky surge]

Good news, Dondi is coming down hard on Deino with the difficulty hammer

Man is apparently not holding back

[rustic rock]

good! get rid of that fish diet and force em to eat each other.

[dusky surge]

I mean, IDK what his plans are

Honestly, deino could do without the fish, make spinosaurids eat them instead

And cherius

[rustic rock]

Yeah I was soo wrong last night, after I kept playing, realized deino's gameplay is RIDICULOUS.. giant end game dinosaurs like it, should be a harrowing experience to grow into an adult and a rarity.

Like I now realize WHY I was soo damn bored..

[dusky surge]

My God what a character arc

[rustic rock]

because it was soo easy to grow and just be basically invincible.. and having "deino friends" was game breaking imo.

[dusky surge]

yea, basically. Deino is a God

[rustic rock]

Still stand that titanoaboa should come to the game.

[solar meteor]

impossible to balance

[mystic cosmos]

Titanoaboa is an animators nightmare for gameplay. How are they going to eat? Will they have to wrap around its prey to kill it? How will it move?

[solar meteor]

constriction mechanic is something that will never be implemented in a pvp survival game

[rustic rock]

it would only be able to constrict in the water, I looked further into it, and it couldn't constrict effectively on land. It was mainly a water hunting snake, like deino. In the water physics are different which was WHY it COULD constrict in the water

[dusky surge]

i agree but it won't deal with the problem of deinos

[dusky surge]

that is true, because it was primary a piscivore

[rustic rock]

The physics and energy used to constrict and devour in the water are much easier on something like the titanoboa.

but! back to the beat down that deinosuchus deserves!! it must receive the nerf hammer!!

[south sandal]

Spino will whoop deino whenever it comes

Hopefully

[solar meteor]

but then who whoops the spino

[south sandal]

T. rex

[solar meteor]

i just want to drink water in peace man...

[south sandal]

I feel you but that just can’t happen all the time or deino gonna go hungry lol

[rustic rock]

Yeah, but that's the experience this game provides, is that constant paranoia of whether your being hunted or stalked.. etc etc, and on top of it all, you gotta eat and drink 2.

[south sandal]

New map safer water tho

[dusky surge]

that's kind of the problem. They really didn't think that much through. Spino as it stands is just going to replace deino as untouchable to all land animals when it wants to be

imho, deino and spino should have an even-ish matchup in the water, and deinocherius should square up evenly against spino in the shallows

[rustic rock]

If you think in a ecological kind of way, it is most beneficial to eat other deino's so as to establish yourself as the largest deino and then dominate and control the waters. When Spino releases, im sure both these animals will kill eachother throughout their lifecycles to try and maintain that dominance over the river. However with the other dino's preying on their distractions with eachother that's when you can take advantage and kill them as well etc etc.

[dusky surge]

personally i dont feel spino should be a cannibal

it should kill its own kind

but not want to eat them

[rustic rock]

Yeah, but should they hunt together? maybe make part of a terriorial thing.. territory should be brought into the game somehow, providing certain advantages or something like that.

[dusky surge]

i think it should be as simple as food competition. Kill the other spino for being too close to your fishing spot

[mystic cosmos]

Spino could be slower than deino in the water, making deino have a slight advantage over them

[south sandal]

That’s how deino should b also

[rustic rock]

Yeah, that's basically emergent territory control by the player I guess.

because deino does work almost exclusively in the water, I think maintaining a high hunger tolerance and low hydration is fine for now.

[meager oriole]

Deinocheirus

Rex(ish)

Spino and Cheirus are the semi aquatic apexes so

It’s like a Trike-Rex situation

[dusky surge]

I mean, based on how it's described, cherius won't even get that luxury

[meager oriole]

It’s claws are m u c h meaner than Spino

[hollow canyon]

fish are irrelevant to cannibalism, you basically kill those two things as they provide different nutrients.

[solar meteor]

i like that a herbivore is the one who keeps the apex carni in check

[hollow canyon]

are they? I wouldn't say that. They look like they're for grappling, while Spino's claws look like they're for swiping at things.

[solar meteor]

it should be like that

[hollow canyon]

it's an Omnivore

[meager oriole]

It’s an Omnivore

[solar meteor]

eeh, fish eater

[hollow canyon]

and idk if it keeps Spino in check, they are rivals really

[hollow canyon]

maybe? I think it could absolutely swallow smaller dinosaurs whole

it's gigantic, if a Dryo or Herrera get too close they could definitely end up in its belly

to put into picture how gigantic Deinocheirus is - it's in the top5 of the biggest theropods, after Giganotosaurus, Mapusaurus and T.rex, it's larger than Spino and possibly larger than Carcharodontosaurus too.

[hollow canyon]

Wait, that hasn't happened yet?

I think June was meant to be the last month Deino would enjoy the ease of growth?

[dusky surge]

We'll know when it happens

[hollow canyon]

I mean...

[dusky surge]

Deino players will make it known

[hollow canyon]

Dondi said that in June

[hollow canyon]

it was supposed to be difficult by now

[dusky surge]

We'll see what happens

[rustic rock]

But that's it, people don't kill other deino's during the early stages, (unless you come across a dead or something like that) lots of people just AFK grow deino. It needs to be harder to get there. Getting to 100% imo should be in generations.. like reaching 50% as a male to then mate with a female to then birth a new deino that can reach 75% then again and then 100%.. then strains and same thing, which would make the gameplay interesting and cyclical. But that's juat my opinion.

[solar meteor]

that idea's a bust since you can only nest past 80%

but more incentives to nest are sorely needed

[rustic rock]

Yeah if it was suppose to be difficult, it's crazy easy.. because fish olare in my diet I don't NEED to cannibalise if I don't want to and because of that, I hunt a fish then put it up as bait and then I sit there and wait in the water.. and I don't really fear other deinos that much and don't need to patrol the river looking for em because I don't NEED to eat them. It's a real problem to there gameplay, if I had to fear the water and go in and out more then I'd need to stay on the move while still hunting, like every other carnivore.

[rustic rock]

Yeah it was an example, obviously the numbers can change.

[hollow canyon]

wdym? You need Deinos for the "S" nutrient

[rustic rock]

If deino's HAD to hunt other ones, they could stalk the larger one and wait for it to grab a victim and then attack it when it's stamina is down for example, just better more skillful and active gameplay imo

[hollow canyon]

unless you can catch a Carno or an Omni but I have no idea why anyone of them would get baited by a fish of all things.

the first thing I pretty much always do as a Deino

is killing another Deino

unless I can't find one unprotected by big ones

[rustic rock]

Yeah that's what I'm saying 2, but I think having a freebie like fish is not okay. The power the deino has at late stage shouldn't be given to you over an elapsed time of sitting AFK, you gotta go and earn it, kill other players plan and risk, play the game, like all the other carnivores.

[hollow canyon]

you are not saying that

[rustic rock]

How am I not?

[hollow canyon]

you are saying that fish replace killing a Deino in some way

they don't do that in any way

[rustic rock]

Yes I am.

[hollow canyon]

different nutrients

[rustic rock]

They do

[hollow canyon]

Fish is //, Deiino is S

you can replace Fish with Deino

because Deino is a playable

[rustic rock]

Doesn't matter, I can just eat a fish and sit and AFK with some bait, some idiot will eventually come by to drink water or eat a fish and ill just eat them if I can.

[hollow canyon]

but you can't replace Deino with fish

[hollow canyon]

what bait?

[rustic rock]

I think we're confused here, let me be clear..

[hollow canyon]

if someone eats a fish dropped on the ground as a terrestrial carnivore

the skill issue is so large that they deserve to get eaten

idk what a moron would do that

they get nothing of value out of that

[rustic rock]

I'm saying to get rid of fish as a diet, and have deinos only have a diet that consists of player controlled dinosaurs, including other deinos.

[hollow canyon]

eating that is as bad as grazing

[hollow canyon]

it lacks // nutrient sources in that case

Stego is getting removed

the other sources of that nutrient are tiny

and irrelevant

[rustic rock]

BECAUSE deino is soo damn powerful late game, it is something that shouldn't be.. just given to you for playing safe and going AFK in a bush.

Dude, you can grow with one nutrient source

[hollow canyon]

yea that takes like what... 10 hours?

increase that to 20 if you like

[rustic rock]

Yeah, and people do it!

[hollow canyon]

that's a better solution

[rustic rock]

That won't fix the problem..

[hollow canyon]

how does that not fix the problem?

it literally doubles the growthtime of someone who just afks on fish

[rustic rock]

Because people will still do it, just like people in WOW farming boars to gain exp and lvl to max lvl in classic

[solar meteor]

Basically the point is: you can survive entirely on a diet of fish

[hollow canyon]

ofc you can

you have to be insane to do that

that's such an enormous time investment

[solar meteor]

so?

it's easy to grow, not fast

[hollow canyon]

so it's w/e worst case scenario increase the growth time on one nutrient

[rustic rock]

People will do it bro.. and besides the gameplay is bad for every other dinosaur if you just sit there with no SKILL and wait for someone to drink water all day or grab a bite of your fish for example.

[hollow canyon]

higher chance someone finds that afk growing Deino

[solar meteor]

not any higher than a moving deino

[hollow canyon]

if someone tries to eat a fish they are just about as unskilled as that Deino growing just on fish

[rustic rock]

Deinos fighting for territory and patrolling the river is better.

[hollow canyon]

well duh, of course it is

[rustic rock]

Not singing koombiya together camping the river as a happy family.

[hollow canyon]

but its // nutrient has very little outside of fish that gives it

especially with Stego getting removed too

[rustic rock]

Your the minority in that gameplay, and so am I, now that I took your advice in being a canni

[solar meteor]

i'm not sure what point you're trying to make, Aken

are you disagreeing you can easily grow off of fish alone?

[hollow canyon]

that if you remove fish and Stego from the // nutrient

you're effectively making the growth take place on two nutrients

the other two sources were some garbage small useless things I never ate

just increase the growth time for one nutrient

that's an easy solution to making growing just on fish unviable

they give only one nutrient

Deino could easily be an exception and grow 20 hours if it grows on three //

I'd rather have Deino reduced in size down to some 5t

or even 4t

[mystic cosmos]

I wouldn't be mad if a dino with three of the same nutrient had a growth debuff

[hollow canyon]

since it's going to be left without a stego

[rustic rock]

It shouldn't be allowed to AFK grow period. It should have to ACTIVELY hunt and secure food like every other dinosaur but it need to be harder because Deino is soo damn powerful late game.

[hollow canyon]

ez nerf its power in the late game

make it unable to get from one body of water to another via swimming

force it to walk long distances

decrease its hp pool severely

so that it can get killed by the other animals

and make it smaller

[rustic rock]

That doesn't fix the gameplay experience. People will STILL AFK grow, wtf. They will do what is necessary to get stronger. It ain't fair

[hollow canyon]

yea but

[mystic cosmos]

I'd wait for gateway before making changes to the deino

[hollow canyon]

A/ they won't be as strong in the late
B/ they won't be able to afk because they will have to survive in one body of water where they could run out of fish

so they'd have to take a walk every now and then

[rustic rock]

AKEN, try growing without fish in your diet and go after other deinos, you'll find its wayy harder and you'll need to be on the move more if every deino is hunting every deino.

[hollow canyon]

I am always on the move with Deino

and I always kill every Deino that isn't significantly larger than me

fish is absolutely necessary though

[solar meteor]

I think what we tried to say was basically to just remove fish from it's diet pool, and keep everything as is

[rustic rock]

That's boring, and that sucks, that just incentivizes more camping and more AFK watching for dinos drinking water, its a cool mechanic but there should be more tools in its box then just that.

[hollow canyon]

unless you have loads of killable stegosaurs running around

[solar meteor]

Then it would be forced to hunt or scavenge some more

[hollow canyon]

it's not and it doesn't and it doesn't incentivise camping at all

what are you even talking about? You wouldn't be able to stay in one place

you have a single pond

if fish runs out - you have to move

instead of swimming slightly in a random direction to eat a bit more fish a bit further down the river

[rustic rock]

None of those things need to happen.

[hollow canyon]

well you're wrong

those things absolutely need to happen

some of them are a necessity/already happening

Deino can't be butchering the whole map

by having all the water interconnected

[rustic rock]

If you just remove fish from its diet it will be forced to kill eachother and patrol rivers for other deinos, stopping the AFK camping. If you make all these OTHER SWEEPING CHANGES, that's alot more work for the same effect.

[hollow canyon]

because otherwise its mains start screeching "it's unviable!"

[hollow canyon]

it won't

that wouldn't give it enough fo the nutrient for the fish

[rustic rock]

Why wouldn't it? Wouldn't you be paranoid of another deino behind you?

[hollow canyon]

I mean

I am already

[mystic cosmos]

Gateway is already doing away with the massive river system. There will be ponds and lakes. Once a pond or lake runs out of fish, deino needs to get lucky or move on

[hollow canyon]

I always assume a Deino that sees me - wants me dead

and if I see a Deino - I want it dead

[hollow canyon]

yea, I said it was already happening

they shouldn't be able to get lucky though

they should just have to move on

[mystic cosmos]

Get lucky with thirsty dinosaurs. That's how they hunt, afterall

[hollow canyon]

different bodies of water should be running out of them the same way that lakes and other bodies of water run out of fresh water in PoT

[hollow canyon]

I mean either that or kill other Deinos

[rustic rock]

Again your the minority, lots of deinos won't risk fighting knowing they can grow without killing eachother, and that's dumb.

[hollow canyon]

the latter is preferrable in my book

[hollow canyon]

There's no risk in fighting if you know how to fight

if I decide to kill someone

[mystic cosmos]

First bite wins

[hollow canyon]

they die unless they manage to run away(there are ways of escaping a Deino as another Deino, like multiple)

[rustic rock]

Yes that's fine, but they also hunt eachother, it's a more active gameplay experience, vs just playing it safe. This game is supposed to hard, and playing deino ain't hard at all. I can survive forever, with no real threats other then other deinos and I can avoid them pretty easily.

[hollow canyon]

nah, I've won loads of fights where I was bitten first

this guy attacked me first

he was fully grown, I was at 90-95%

still won, then I had one where I was 1v2 and got attacked first - still killed one before dying

not to mention this one

[rustic rock]

Okay dude we get it, your a good deino player. I wanna make the game harder for you, and more enjoyable for everyone playing deino and other dinosaurs, making deinos play actively because they need to find players to eat is incentivizes active gameplay. If I can eat fish I can wait patiently.

[hollow canyon]

It's not more enjoyable if you have to take 7 hours to grow because someone decided to delete half the animals from one of your nutrients

[rustic rock]

What you don't get is the reason you play that way is BECAUSE your bored AF sitting there waiting for something to come to the river.. im saying I WANT THAT PLAYSTYLE you are doing to be THE WAY to play and progress as deino, NOT an OPTION but a requirement for deino.

[hollow canyon]

you can wait patiently unless you run into me

I will kill any Deino I see that are just growing, chilling somewhere

[rustic rock]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

[hollow canyon]

no, that is just very much not true

Idk why you're trying to get into my head

I am not playing this way because I don't want to wait for terrestrial dinos

I've killed loads of those while growing, I just don't care about them when I finish growing because they are the means to the end for me

[rustic rock]

Idk what's happening here, but im very confused and this is a wierd conversation. Idk why your fighting tooth and nail to retain the fish diet for deino.

[hollow canyon]

not the actual reason why I play

[hollow canyon]

because deleting it is bad, if you don't know that you might want to start reading what I'm actually saying to you

I'v explained it half a dozen of times

if you delete fish - you delete half the sources of // nutrient for it

[rustic rock]

Okay, well im done. 😅 this getting annoying.

[hollow canyon]

it's been annoying from the beginning, I don't think you even read what I'm saying to you

[rustic rock]

That's the point dude, make it a survival game, suppose to be hard. It's too easy right now. Plays like a carebear simulator for deinos

[hollow canyon]

this isn't

"hard"

this is just making it "long"

seriously what are you even talking about - you're trying to force it to grow on 2 nutrients and thinking you're solving anything

that just makes it longer, not even much longer but that's still almost 3 hours more to the growth time of plays actively

idk what it would even do to someone who sits passively

they just sit in one spot and kill whatever gets close and still sit there in a group

[hollow canyon]

as for this - I don't kill other Deinos because I find waiting there to kill terrestrial animals boring. I play Deino solely and only to kill other Deinos

I dislike this playable

your nerf for it is just dumb

[jade brook]

Nothing can fight a deino but another, or stego which destroy it.
Long ass river as the only water source, completely invisible underwater whatever speed you moving in these tight place, able to see above water. Yet hunting is based luck cuz u never stay out of it.
I don't find this fun but unfair for Deino and the rest.
To me it's lame

[hollow canyon]

my point precisely - A/ nerf its stats, B/change river into multiple bodies of water

currently it's just dumb.

[keen plover]

Make it so they don't spawn so large. I remember how weak small deinos were in update 3

Make it kind of like that

Change their growth scale

Spawn tiny. Stay relatively small for the majority of their life 2-3t~ and only gain mass towards the end of growing.

There's like a billion ways to hide on Gateway for smaller Deino's as well

Gateway will have 'shallows' & lakes where larger Deino's won't do well in. While other semi aquatics can kill smaller Deino's

[mystic cosmos]

Cant wait to see spinos hunting deinos.

[knotty venture]

#balance-feedback message

If players would stop being spiteful Lil jackasses then maybe not nearly as much food would be in the water. Could always risk it if your super hungry though.

#balance-feedback message

This one just sounds like a spiteful kos pachy who's upset it can't hunt down things and bully tenontos. What you should be asking for is pachy to have its stun back or a speed increase.

Poor thing says it's "faster" then Cera but is out ran, out turned and out gunned compared to Cera. It can't make carnos back off in fear of broken anything cuz no stun. Only raptors and young babies get stunned by it now.

#balance-feedback message

Is forgetting the part where biepi is semi aquatic. Is ment to go to land to find plants to eat at night. And that so long as you are in water at day its easy to spot the crocs and avoid accordingly.

Oh and that it's semi aquatic. And not water bound like croc.

#balance-feedback message

Holding E never helped you in escaping. Idk about you but I don't ever see animals escaping the jaws of gators or crocodiles in the wild unless the croc/gator fumbles it and let's go. Plenty of safe places to drink just learn them.

[knotty harbor]

Eve woke up and chose violence

[knotty venture]

I did. Here's another. #balance-feedback message
This dude wants to make Cera more of a scavenger by making it slower and changing the bite

The reason it's being such a HUNTER is because of;bugs where fake food is everywhere, ppl choosing to die in water out of spite and most importantly it's carno rate of food drain. It already can't catch things well and it's safer to hunt someone that you see vs going to bodies that may not be there or in water. Played alot of Cera. OH and bones give like no food so players are going for rotten meat foremost and bones if they are desperate.

It's annoying seeing bad balance feed back when ppl haven't played the Dino or paid attention when the devs introduced animals like biepi.

[knotty harbor]

#balance-feedback message give me your take on this

[knotty venture]

Feels like the nerf to carno turning & charging was added for ceratos sake. if it had its old turning & almost instant charge cera would be dying left & right. maaaybe not being able to knock cera would fix this? like its still possible to kill cera as carno with out knocking.

I wouldnt change cera's body buff because tbh its easy to force them to move. its ment to stop the herbi body camping I think so making it worse is blah.

Pachy needs its stun back.

I am indifferent to the day & night. because night time isnt nearly as bad as 6.0

Croc gameplay is very limited. you are lucky to find new players to who dont know where the safe places are to drink. the rivers are narrow so they cant escape each other right now. Bring back the crocs ability to stun stegos.

As for stego its fine. it needs no nerfs because if you make it slower its gonna be like how carnos are vs a pack of raptors when solo. unable to hit anything with its alt attack & unable to get enough room to become a threat, easily baited attacks becuase unlike carno alt attack swinging a stegos tail actually costs stam & once out your done.

over all kinda disagree with most of it as a whole

[buoyant peak]

why am I flowing from the teno?

[polar mason]

What does deinos underwater night vision look like? Never played it not really interested in playing it but I've seen a lot of people complain about beipis underwater night vision. I've personally never had an issue with it and it's never affected my ability to see crocs early enough to get out of the water

[tall bronze]

Deino's underwater NV is basically just regular NV, but underwater.

[polar mason]

I looked up some gameplay and it looks significantly darker than out of water

Like I don't see much of an advantage. Beipis weird silhouette underwater night vision still very cleary shows approaching crocs

[tall bronze]

Thing is, Beip underwater NV tends to bug out a lot for many people to where it's MUCH darker than it should be. Even for me, I can't tell if it's supposed to look this way or not. So it's hard to tell who's complaining about the bugged version vs the normal version.

For me, it's very very dark, but I can juuuust barely see outlines.

[polar mason]

Ya that sounds like a bug issue because every beipi I've ever played has fairly distinct bright white lines underwater

Like when looking at deino underwater night vision gameplay and comparing it to what I see as beipi I find beipi's to be better than it. Deinos just seems very dark

[dusky surge]

my concept for carno rebalance is complete

[tall bronze]

I like it, but I'm a little confused. Since we can't use alt-attacks while running anymore and the charge still exists, wouldn't Carno still be encouraged to try and ambush more? Unless I'm missing something 😮

[dusky surge]

the accel remains the same, and you deal far less damage on ram, so ambushes are less effective. The alt-bite is designed to keep stuff like omniraptors off your ass, considering they're currently exceptionally good at felling carnos

The idea of this charge is to make it more than a knockdown tool

A 2 second speed boost also allows you to close the gap between yourself and your prey

Or escape larger animals

[tall bronze]

Hmm, that actually sounds pretty neat. Aightyougotmyvote 👍

[dusky surge]

The bite's base damage is also up to encourage pursuits

Also to allow for proper true combos, with a charge leaving an omni on low enough health for a bite to either finish it off, or leave it vulnerable to death to a mere tailbite

The alt-bite and charge are purposely lower damages to encourage carno to think more creatively with its toolset

Alt-bite won't be effective in hunts against animals like cera and tenonto

But it will be impatful in ensuring you are effective against small tiers

Which you absolutely should be

[tall bronze]

See THIS is the kinda stuff we need more of. Actually thought out with reasons instead of "I died as Cerato so buff it's damage please" ;o;

I also really like the idea of utilizing Dryo's dodge cooldown with the charge.

Limiting but not too limiting. You think perks could affect it? (like the amount of charges or regen?)

[dusky surge]

Yea, because it ensures carno thinks more creatively. Current charge is an objectively weak stamdump. New charge is a pursuit tool, an attack, an escape tool and so on

The hard 2 second limit also ensures carnos don't just run around heads down, and must actually time the attack

For example, if I know a raptor has dodged my first charge, he most likely will dodge my second. If he turns around and tries to fight, a headswing will floor him and leave him exposed to my bites. Should he run away and duke me, I can use the charge to close long distances to ensure I remain a consistent threat.

It's this kind of thinking that makes hunting engaging, and having animals have unique emergent hunting styles dependent on the player's own gameplay that still fit within the flavour of the animal itself is what should be strived for

[rigid tulip]

I like the carno changes but would personally make it have better acceleration and reduce its bite damage

to what it was

[dusky surge]

i disagree with better accel, it should be difficult to get into motion

and i'm increasing it back to what it was

it was 200 for a long while before being arbitrarily decreased, ironically further pushing the chargespam carno we have now

[rigid tulip]

I dont like how its essentially just a raw powerhouse rn, but maybe it only feels that way because we dont have something else bigger yet, by "back to what it was" I just mean current carno. I think it should facetank a cera but only barely tbh.

[dusky surge]

well, it'd actually struggle more against cera with these changes

due to the reduced charge damage and spammability

[rigid tulip]

the only reason I say increase accel is because to me it feels extremely silly how the two dinos built for a speedy plains playstyle rn have the worst acceleration while a fat scavenger goes to max speed in a blink

[dusky surge]

i personally feel the accel grants vulnerability to their speed

it makes them exposed to ambush

Should a cerato, for instance, want to avoid a carno, their primary goal should be to find a forest or river, not stand out in the wide open plains and expect a fight they can win

cerato still has plenty of tools

[rigid tulip]

I agree it should not be able to kill a carno 1v1 consistently, but I think it should be certainly possible, like a teno vs carno 1v1

[dusky surge]

over a body, sure

i'd agree to that

[rigid tulip]

it depends what we mean by the possiblity of a 1v1 tho, like good raptors can 1v1 a carno, and I doubt this is intended

[dusky surge]

i think if the carno is in the forest, cera should have the advantage

[rigid tulip]

agreed

[dusky surge]

remember, carno can't alt-bite spam to win in this fight, or charge

[rigid tulip]

ahh i forgot about the alt bite removal, good point

then the damage is fine honestly

[dusky surge]

well, not removal, retool

it's a stun for smaller creatures now, it's just ineffective against larger animals

so cerato can actually do quite well here

[rigid tulip]

I just want it somehow to be given a way to more successfully catch smaller prey, oftentimes now it seems almost impossible unless im just bad, i dont play carno

it feels like your playing something that is just genuinely handicapped

[dusky surge]

agreed

this is why i retooled the charge and stam as i did

it's very hard to make this new carno give up

either get into the forest and break line of sight, or it will be on you, all the time

[rigid tulip]

would the charge be able to technically "cut off" paths of running creatures with a short burst of speed?

if so I think that would do it

[dusky surge]

It could, it could also be used to close distances quickly if you got left behind

It's about player agency in how they choose to use this tool

[rigid tulip]

a good burst of speed from it sounds really helpful in it actually fulfilling its role ngl

the isles carno cant decide what it wants to be and its sad to watch it play

[dusky surge]

it also helps against, god forbid, gallimimus

both animals having a speed boost permits carno to take the lead in some situations

[dusky surge]

added a caveat where carno should have reduced stomach size, so smaller animals actually feel like a more sufficient meal

[dusky surge]

@rigid tulip Along with hypsi being up in the trees, you could honestly get quite the arboreal ecosystem going on up there, so I'm a big fan of the concept

[rigid tulip]

I feel like herra might be just a dino where u dont see anyone and wait endlessly, hopefully that would spice things up

[dusky surge]

i mean, i'm hoping hypsi gets climbing with/soon after herrera

so those two can have their arboreal vibes

@cursive flare that's the idea, it's a bully, it bullies people off their food

it's been bastardised into a hunter as of late due to its insane endurance hunting ability, but it was always meant to take other people's lunch, rather than kill things directly

[dusky surge]

didn't expect the carno thing to end up being this split tbh

[rigid tulip]

if it doesnt herra gameplay will be quite empty

[dusky surge]

its confirmed to climb, we just dont know when

[rigid tulip]

hopefully simaltaneously with herra release bruhh

[dusky surge]

one can hope

[dawn falcon]

Genuinely curious
Wouldn’t having a slow turn (like current) force you to ambush more than being a pursuit predator?

[slim dragon]

@dusky surge Carno's alt-bite knockdowns opponents under 50% of what ? Weight ? Growth ? Hunger ?

[dawn falcon]

Because what good is all these balance takes if everything practically outturns you

[dusky surge]

Weight, I'll add that

[distant torrent]

I honestly want hypsi and herra chases in the trees to be epic. a battle of who has the best parkour skills

[dusky surge]

Fixed

[dawn falcon]

I love the idea of Herrera being wary of Hypsis, especially them sniping Herreras out of the trees

[slim dragon]

Also isn't a 25% speed increase during charge a bit massive ? That'd be over 75 km/h on a FG carno...

[slim dragon]

:P

[distant torrent]

that’d be funny

[dawn falcon]

The whole Herrera, Hypsi, Ptera and Mega interactions will be great

[dusky surge]

No, it'd be around 69km/hr, it's the same kind of boost a galli gets from its call

[dawn falcon]

Hypsis climbing and defending their tree nest by sniping Herreras out of the trees

[thin mantle]

Honestly I just don’t want Carno charging at all

[dawn falcon]

Based

[thin mantle]

It’s a WIERD ability for what Carno is meant for

[dusky surge]

Not so, as long as you have stamina, you can keep up a pursuit, and at that juncture, it's about time and if the animal can escape. The charge is purposely made so that if you do get outsped, you can close the gap

[thin mantle]

Like why give the small game hunter a CC option

Instead of an ability to counteract its poor standard mobility

[dawn falcon]

^^^

Also I don’t like the idea of locking abilities behind an artificial cooldown.
If you decide to spam, it should be punishing, but not lock the ability

[dusky surge]

The charge is meant to be more than a boring CC with my rework. Personally not a superfan either, but I feel it's not getting removed, so I added a nice middle ground

[dawn falcon]

And that’s just personal preference

[dusky surge]

100% fair take, I personally feel carno's too stam-reliant to the point that it's either you choose to charge and get absolutely screwed, or can just charge infinitely till an animal stops moving

[thin mantle]

It’s a better middle ground than just current charge

[slim dragon]

Unless I'm that bad at math, if carno stays around 50 km/h, a 25% bonus is...
Wait, I AM that bad at math, you're right

[thin mantle]

It’s still a STUPID ability for Carno

[dusky surge]

It's 55.5km/hr, Galli reaches 69.25km/hr while call boosting, and this hypothetical carno would reach 69.37km/hr while charging, basically BARELY keeping up

[dawn falcon]

I’d honestly just scrap charge and give Carno more tools that don’t lock down your mobility and can be used while in pursuit, WITHOUT being OP in a pack

[dusky surge]

This, among other things, is the reason it uses charges instead of stam, to prevent people going mach speed all the time

[thin mantle]

I really just want a simple slide recover based on a charge system with a Bite attached to it

[dawn falcon]

For instance, just by increasing the stamina pool and slightly buffing the turn, you probably don’t even NEED the charge, especially if you give Carno a headswing

Because now it can keep up with smalls and has at least two tools it can use while in pursuit

[thin mantle]

True

[dusky surge]

The headswing is something I def wanted, and I felt was a superior option to the alt-bite because of omnis constantly bullying this thing

[dawn falcon]

Plus honestly

The idea of getting a speed boost is really cool

Maybe have it be a crouching ability

Not sure honestly

[dusky surge]

Isn't that LITERALLY legacy ambush speed

[thin mantle]

I don’t wanna go down that territory

[dusky surge]

I'm tryna avoid the whole ambush stuff

[thin mantle]

I really just want a slide recovery ability

Like it doesn’t need to be complicated

Carno benefits from being pretty simple

[dawn falcon]

Well I mean
A speed boost with charge would just be legacy speed boosts without the crouch, no?

[thin mantle]

Since it’s so statistically advantageous

[dusky surge]

Not really

Because you need to get to full acceleration before you can use that speed boost

As opposed to that speed boost being a substitute for accel like in legacy

[dawn falcon]

Well

[dusky surge]

The idea of this carno is keeping it still out of forests and afraid of ambush, while actually letting it be a "small game terror", and increasing the chances of animals like tenonto and cerato against it, while not making carno objectively trash against those two

[dawn falcon]

I guess it works at least?

But yeah, as stated above, probably don’t need charge if you give it a head swing, even moreso with a turning buff

Which I hope becomes the plan at some point

[dusky surge]

I honestly wanted an ability for carno on alt+RMB that used one of the "charges" I mentioned prior, but instead made carno do a skid then turn in that direction without losing any of its acquired momentum, forgoing the constant fear of losing your acceleration and getting screwed

[slim dragon]

When I suggested the exact same things a few months ago you disagreed

[dusky surge]

I'm a growing man

So now I agree

The difference between past Wavepoole and current Wavepoole is that past Wavepoole was lot about a lot of things and current Wavepoole is wrong about some things that future Wavepoole will soon discover

[slim dragon]

Well only idiots never change their minds

[dusky surge]

Not changing your mind is boring

I used to think carno was an ambush predator

And shouldn't have been changed from such

[thin mantle]

That's literally the ability I want for it xD

[dusky surge]

@molten willow why are you so confused lol :P

i can explain what i mean because sometimes i forget to elaborate appropriately

[molten willow]

Confused on why you'd ever think those would be good or balanced in the current game

[dusky surge]

WDYM

[slim dragon]

Wave gets roasted

[dusky surge]

It gives larger animals a better chance of killing it, while preventing it from getting obliterated by the small tier roster (like it does now)

I really don't know what the problem actually is with it

No one has actually told me anything besides "It's bad and I hate it"

Except for that one guy who didn't like the charge thing which was a valid concern

[molten willow]

It all sounds fine except the new charge and another knockdown? Super unessiary

[dusky surge]

The other knockdown actually was done to prevent omnis and small animals from bumrushing it (given the new alt-bite cannot be used while running), while also giving ceras/tenos more of a chance, as it prevents alt-bite spam in facetanks as an effective strategy against it

[molten willow]

Having a minute cooldown on anything is insane during combat and with the charge only lasting 2 seconds and taking no stam im sure there could be another way to balance it without it getting abused

And you can spam alt bite to get omnis away from you

Alt bites hit omnis while pounced

[dusky surge]

Well the charge is meant more as a movement tool than just a fighting tool, it does both

It's used in close range to punish people who aren't dodging, but also used to close the distance against fleeing prey

It also has two charges to prevent you using it wrong and getting obliterated

1 minute may be too long, I agree

[slim dragon]

(That part shouldn't be in the game)

[dusky surge]

Yea that's just ass, I don't believe that should be considered in this

[molten willow]

Dw Itll get fixed in a year

[dusky surge]

It's so unfair for omnis

And ESPECIALLY for Troodons

[molten willow]

I think 2 knockdowns for smth its tier is too much and too easy

[dusky surge]

The idea is to make it dominant against small tiers, but something like an allo or even a cera will be a considerable concern for it

[molten willow]

Carno is still viable, just not so much solo as anything would be with its stam and turn rate

[dusky surge]

Alt-bite's reduced damage means its ONLY useful against smalls, and charge's reduced damage and spammability means it can't just use this to waste ceras with insane burst

[molten willow]

If you want it to be dominant against small tiers make the charge do knock down and barely any damage and lower the stam cost, but even with knock downs the stand up timers are all too short rn so it doesn't even matter

[dusky surge]

The charge already does do knockdown and I've lowered the damage and removed the stam-melting element

I want knockdowns to not also do some of the highest damage in the game

[molten willow]

Yeah I just think Carno only needs a charge dmg nerf and then to buff its stam cost for the charge and it would be completely fine and still able to fight off ceras and low tiers

Not buff the stam cost, make it better lol

[dusky surge]

I'd be fine with that too, although I would personally like to see more trotrate

And maybe a smaller stomach so small kills actually matter

It has Troodon on its diet yet it barely gets anything from Troodon lol

[molten willow]

Yeah I can agree with getting more food from bodies as well

[dusky surge]

Opposite to cera basically

Cera eats more to fill its stomach, carno eats less, but has fast hunger rate

That way we keep it being a constantly moving threat, while also making it not ignore smaller animals as viable meals

[molten willow]

Yeah it would still balance out

[dusky surge]

Because otherwise what the hell is the point of putting Troo on there lol

Besides to taunt carno

[molten willow]

Ig when you are a juvi you can get a bit a food idk

[rustic rock]

Licking wounds should be a thing when your hurt and resting. makes noises change my mind..

[dusky surge]

most animals don't do this

deinosuchus certainly would not

[rustic rock]

With the exception of deinosuchus, and yes plenty of em do.

[dusky surge]

in fact, this is primarily a trait found in mammals, and even then, it's not super common

[rustic rock]

Honestly, it's a response that we just don't know if dinosaurs did, because it is only possible to observe it, as it was only done on soft tissues,l. But it can be argued the tongue evolved beyond the mouth to do just this.

The bacteria and saliva in the mouth is homeopathic and would help to cover and protect a wound.. maybe this could be a mechanic to shorten bleeding, create a temporary pain immunity allowing your Dino to run short distances while fractured, etc etc.

[rustic rock]

Making such bold claims should be provided with evidence even something to back up your reasoning.. its funny when people just state something like this to justify their reasoning.. while not talking about the gameplay feature and how it could deepen the experience.. because supposedly, "realism". IE back it up game dev / paleontologist

[dusky surge]

How does it deepen the experience? It's an animation that speeds up healing

[rustic rock]

It reduces AFK resting, and keeps you actively engaged in the game, moving, and deciding whether now or later is a better time to heal.

[rustic rock]

Resting speeds up healing already, this would just make noise if hurt and an animation yes.

[dusky surge]

Wouldn't it reduce the amount of punishment for taking damage?

[dusky surge]

Well licking doesn't make a noise that's audible beyond right next to the licking animal, so overall you'd be pretty chill healing in a bush

[rustic rock]

To human hearing yes, NOT other animals.

Certain animals have extremely sensitive hearing as opposed to others.

[dusky surge]

and humans are the ones playing the animals

[rustic rock]

What's your point? By that logic I shouldn't be able to hold my breathe for hours under water as deino, because I'm human?!

Same with nightvision I shouldn't be able to see as far because human

[dusky surge]

We have still got our human senses

We see more colours than these animals could, or in some cases, less

We can only hear as much as our ears and volume can let us

[rustic rock]

Hearing is a sense, im lost with your logic right now. It's a game, your still using "realism" to justify gameplay mechanics.

[dusky surge]

I'm not using realism, the licking sound would be subtle to a human

With the vast and loud soundscape of The Isle

[rustic rock]

We actually don't know that, because the soft tissues of dinosaurs are gone and not examinable. So assessing their vision was worse is not correct and not backed up.

[dusky surge]

Music, calls, ambient sounds, all would clutter the sound scape and be difficult for us to hear a slight licking sound

[rustic rock]

Why are you fighting AFK resting soo hard.. going AFK and resting is a bs no risk mechanic.

[dusky surge]

Licking is AFK resting

You're sitting still, not doing anything, just licking

[rustic rock]

Exactly, cool animation, followed by some noise your making, necessitating the urgency to cover your wound and keep moving

[dusky surge]

In fact, it gets healing done quicker, so you can just participate more in the bloodbath and not suffer the concequence

Slow healing speeds are purposely done to discourage constant meaningless combat. It hasn't really fixed the problem, mind you, but the idea is there

[rustic rock]

You can participate in the bloodbath with less then full HP, being in a disadvantageous position having low hp creates new decisions for the player and makes the fights more realistic.. its hard to imagine dinosaurs were full hp every time they got into a fight, id wager its pretty rare in the wild.

[dusky surge]

Yea, I agree, which is why licking would just be a problem, since you'd always be quickly healed and ready for the next fight

[rustic rock]

Okay I think your misunderstanding me, im not saying licking would increase healing speed as opposed to resting without licking.. im saying making an animation and sound effects while resting, adding the ability to lick your wounds if you have a fracture but having to sit stationary making noises snarls and growls trying to lick the fracture to be able to ignore it for a temporary amount of time.

[dusky surge]

why not just heal the fracture while you're resting?

be done with the problem in its entirety

[rustic rock]

Sure that can be a thing too, just takes longer, but if your in a fight and lose em for a moment, but sustained a fracture, you can lick your wound and if you do it fast enough, your back up for a few minutes and able to run a bit and get away to a safer place to finish healing the fracture is what I'm saying.

This could extend to a jaw injury reducing your damage for example or like the head fracture Mechanic, etc etc.. just stuff like that to quickly patch it up temporarily and get away and re-engage with that enemy dino

[dusky surge]

But licking wounds is against slashing/piercing wounds, not agaisnt blunt wounds

Licking the area of a broken bone doesn't really do much

[rustic rock]

The skin absorbs the bacteria which acts a pain relief for animals (IRL thing)

Have I changed your mind?

Or atleast made you consider the mechanic?

[dusky surge]

Thing is, if you're safe enough to sit still and lick your wounds until you can run off after a fracture, couldn't you use that same safety to heal the whole wound?

[rustic rock]

No.. because sitting there for a long period of time, where a dinosaur is actively hunting you.. you will be found (tracking system) blood trails, foot steps, and scent, etc etc.

[pine pelican]

Why are omnis able to just push a button to invalidate all your bites and jump through your mouth to latch onto you?

[unborn iris]

Thats not how it works. You can bite them going in. It happens consistently.

[stray light]

buff pachy is so bad now

[pine pelican]

I would disagree.

[rustic rock]

Post a clip and show what your talking about exactly, seems difficult to understand.

[wild cove]

Deino is also a semi-aquatic. It has 0 problems just walking on land whenever it feels like, or you wouldn't have so many people complaining about things like "bush hunter Deino".

Saying "You forget the part where Beipi goes on land to eat plants" is the same as saying "you forget Deino waddles up on land and bullies other dinos off their kills to drag the carcasses back into the rivers uncontested".

Its a fallacious argument at best and has nothing to do with why Beipi shouldn't have a few tweaks to make it more viable.

[cosmic pelican]

You can still hit them mid air though. Both pounce and dismount animations can be used to snipe an omni.

[rustic rock]

Who's complaining about Bush hunter deino? Lol

[wild cove]

There's been a lot of people who've complained about it lol

[rustic rock]

I've not read anyone complaining about it. Bush hunter deino is pretty minimal, most deinos just sit in the river and wait, cause dead gameplay, they juat VIBE and wait I guess.

[dusky surge]

"pachy needs its stun back"

no, it really doesn't

[wild cove]

Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean its not something people complain about. I've both heard it and seen it plenty of times, and had it happen (was distracted by a Cera) or almost happen to me a handful of times as well. Its very much a thing.

Point being, pretending like Deino isn't a semi-aquatic to argue how Beipi is is... well, just a bad argument lol

[wild cove]

Don't know if they fixed it but there's also a bug with hitboxes where you can bite/kill Omni and Troodon while they're pounced on your side. Its particularly annoying on Troodon since its often a 1-hit kill.

[cosmic pelican]

Alt bite hitboxes have been fixed in the recent hotfix, never happened to me since

[wild cove]

Oh awesome. Maybe now its safe to play Troo again lol

[pine pelican]

I haven't played troo myself yet but fighting or running from big packs of troo are hilarious.

[rustic rock]

I don't see how Bush hunting deino's are a problem tbh. It's rare and it's risky gameplay by deinos. It should be more like that, playing in the river and not taking risks goes against what the game is about.

[white dagger]

its cause deino is meant to only be a hazard by the water

[wild cove]

I didn't say it was a problem. I was pointing out the flaw in the person who was trying to argue "Beipi is a semi-aquatic and Deino is water-locked" when that's literally, factually not true

[south sandal]

Who said deino was water locked ? They can’t even breathe under and also do a lot of chilling on the banks

[jade brook]

Water level drop quite really fast on a Deino

[wild cove]

Was a post above I was replying to

[south sandal]

Oh yeah crocs are definitely not water bound

That’s why they got legs free to move go where ever

[wild cove]

Deino vs Beipi

[south sandal]

I think that beipi vision is old

Cause my beipi can see underwater much better than that

[wild cove]

I literally took that screenshot 10 minutes ago

So it can't be old

And its like that every time I've played Beipi

[south sandal]

Mines show everything highlighted

Underwater

[eager saddle]

That’s the normal version yeah. Other one must be bugged

[knotty venture]

It's water locked because of water loss. Of course it has legs and can easily go to land to bully things. But do you see them do that when stegos are in view? Only if it's solo and there's a crap ton. Crocs can't even stun lock stego anymore so I haven't seen them leaving the water much.

When stego is disabled on officials nothing will stop them from staying on land but water loss.

So yeah, biepi is more of a semi aquatic and perfectly viable if you go to land at night. I wish it had night vision like troodon and Cera tbh but it isn't hindered that much.

[polar mason]

Idk if you just took the screenshot at a bad time or what but generally my beipis vision is everything highlighted further than the croc screenshot. Again I've never had an issue getting out of the way of a croc while we were swimming in the river at each other at night

[wild cove]

Beipi also loses water at a rapid pace and can't stray from water for very long

[knotty venture]

Biepi doesn't take 5 hours to grow, can kill anything that gets close enough besides stego and is just an omnivore.

It's on croc diet even though half the time crocs don't go for them it is so easy to avoid water at night.

[wild cove]

Beipi also gets 1-2 tapped by just about everything on the carni roster besides maybe Troodon

And by most herbivores that aren't Hypsi

[knotty venture]

Sounds like you are to trusting and can't hide for a damn

[polar mason]

Its incredibly easy to avoid fighting as beipi if you aren't a brick

[knotty venture]

You can easily dive into a forest tree line and stump things. I do this at center of all places

[wild cove]

Sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions lol

[knotty venture]

Like you did when I said crocs more of a aquatic and went on a tangent about Bush crocs?

Idk how bush crocs came up

[wild cove]

I was making a point because you designated Beipi as a semi-aquatic and Deino as a "not" semi-aquatic. I made no assumptions. I pointed out the flaw in your reasoning the way you proposed it

[polar mason]

I don't think it unreasonable to say beipi is more tuned for land than deino is. Beipi has far better movement on land than deino

[knotty venture]

Well I be damned it does have legs, it's not a mosa genius. How ever it's the most aquatic playable ingame because it's water drain keeps it close to it. Losing water in 7 maybe 10 minites.

[wild cove]

But they are both semi-aquatics, and honestly that's really up for debate, considering I just spent a good 4 hours playing with a flock of land-crocs who spent more time out of the water than in it

[knotty venture]

Agreed I just wish it's land night vision was that of troo or cera

[wild cove]

Deino can hang out on land all it wants as long as aggro stegos aren't trying to stab them in the face and can kill just about anything that comes near it. Beipi, on the other hand, can only run, and has to worry about dangers both in and out of the water. Most land carnis are also faster than Beipi

[knotty venture]

You dense sack of rocks. Of course you can stay on land but you can't travel far inland like a biepi could because of how slow you are how fast Stam drains.

On top of water loss

[polar mason]

If you come near a deino on land that engagement is purely your choice. Thats just an issue now because a poor roster to deal with deino

[knotty venture]

Spino hopefully will fix crocs dominating the water

[wild cove]

Deino can travel a lot further across land without water than you seem to think. But sure, go ahead and try to make your point with childish insults. That will definitely convince me

[jade brook]

Sounds like adding some pool could make some change in deino behavior, no deep aera but like enough to get them to sit around and chase stuff 🤔

[knotty venture]

chase

[jade brook]

And drinkers wont get instant delete jumpscares

[polar mason]

Gateway my beloved

[jade brook]

Chase from bushes i guess

[wild cove]

They already do that lol

[jade brook]

🤡

I just don't like long ass river honestly

[knotty venture]

I have given up reasoning with that person. I don't think my points had nearly as many holes in it

[keen plover]

From what we’ve seen, it has shallow rivers, isolated lakes and the general size of the map to really avoid deinos. Can’t wait

Also deino getting changes

[jade brook]

That sound interesting enough

[polar mason]

Idk what the whole argument was about but I'm surprised someone is upset about a deino not being in the water?

[wild cove]

They seem to think Beipi doesn't need any changes because "Beipi is supposed to go on land sometimes", as if that has anything to do with any of the tweaks I suggested for it.

And as if Deino doesn't also go on land

[polar mason]

Ya it'll definitely be a more fun aquatic environment. I like the larger water areas as it allow the chase between beipi and deino to be more interesting. Right now its just jump out of the shallow thin river

[polar mason]

I honestly don't think beipi needs much change. I have no issues surviving as it. The only thing I wish was a bit better was beipi swim stam

[keen plover]

Yep. Stuff like Sucho, Bary, Beipi & Austro having places to counter Deinos is great

[polar mason]

A bigger semi aquatic roseter wil larger tiers would definitely curb deinos dominance

[wild cove]

Which some of my suggested tweaks were about.

-Let Beipi recover stam while not sprinting. The same as Deino does when it does a slow swim.
-Better underwater nightvision so it can actually see.
-Make it a bit faster in water at least as an adult that it can at least match even when Deino's speed
-Give it a higher breech height as adult. For some reason adult Beipi loses breech height compared to its baby stages. For example, baby Beipi can breech well over the crossing log at swamp where it meets the river, but adult Beipi can't even reach the log

[wild cove]

Wonder how they're going to handle the water thing though, because if the semi-aquatics get water drain in the ocean, you're probably not gonna see it used much. And I would think the Isle team would have wisened up about not putting all the cool spots somewhere that you can't actually go hang out at

[knotty venture]

Lol if biepi dolphine jumps it doesn't lose stam

[wild cove]

It actually does and breech slows down your overall travel speed

[knotty venture]

Though if you have to going to land you get Stam back fast

[polar mason]

I don't mind it being slower in the water than deino. As of now its almost untouchable by deino if you're alert they aren't a threat on spiro and from what it seen of gatways larger water areas the deeper areas and terrain clutter with beipis small size and agility might allow escape to be reasonable even if its slower

[knotty venture]

I have jumped moving like that for easily half an hour. At this point I think you are a troll or just haven't played that much

[wild cove]

I haven't been on gateway so I can't speak to that. But on Spiro with the long, straight, narrow rivers, its a bit of a pain

[polar mason]

Nah I'd agree with them. Beipis stam is a bit jarring to the gameplay. I'm often out of the water recovering stam for what seems like too long/often

[wild cove]

Ah yes. Because you called me a "dense sack of rocks" because you didn't like that I don't agree with you but I'm the troll

[polar mason]

Ya I think the faults of aquatic gameplay are a lot to do with spiro sucking

[knotty venture]

No it's your arguments. It's okie to have opinions and debate but you keep saying things that are obvious.

[knotty venture]

I cant wait for gateways wide rivers

[wild cove]

I mean the Isle devs literally call Beipi the "river dolphin" of the island but we're supposed to get out of the water to get our energy back? That does seem a bit off-tune. Not that we haven't gotten contradictory explanations of what some of our roster dinos are "supposed" to be before

[polar mason]

I'm looking forward to that deep large lake

[knotty venture]

Oh the super blue one?

I'm tired of dirty water.

[wild cove]

The fact you have to insult me because you don't like what I have to say says more about you than it does about my arguments 🤷

Honestly though, don't really know why letting Beipi recover stam while slow swimming would be a bad idea. Deino already has that and its not like Beipi is going to be slow swimming with a hungry gater on its ass lol

[polar mason]

If I recall beipi can recover stam sitting at the surface, its just doing that on spiro rivers is pretty dangerous with how easy it would be a deino to wander across you. Its possible that mechanic is more useful in the larger water bodies of gateway

[wild cove]

Possibly yeah. But like you said, its pretty dangerous since Deino has its nifty little "detect anything sitting on the surface" trick

[knotty venture]

What you had to say is so obvious that children in preschool know this.
Biepi can regen Stam on the surface and with 3 dot diet on land

[polar mason]

Ya you'll just have to be very aware of your surroundings. I did try beipi with the improved stam diet after this recent patch and its better but still meh

[wild cove]

If you don't want that sort of response, don't make overtly fallacious statements that even a preschooler could argue.

[polar mason]

Generally though I'd say beipi is pretty well tuned for surviving when compared to some others on the roster that could use work far more than beipi needs

[wild cove]

Honestly the stam issue to me is slightly below giving adult beipi a higher breech, partly because the breech mechanic adds a lot of fun to the dino and its not often we get a small tier that actually has interesting mechs that aren't combat mechs. The other part being, its kind of useless for leaping out of the water to safety if you can't ever reach anything.

Which will likely be more relevant if we get deep water/ocean and rocky outcroppings and such

[polar mason]

Ya beipi breech does fall off once adulthood. Does feel a bit sluggish and I don't see why it would matter to give them a higher breach as it would just be more fun

[wild cove]

Beipi is actually probably the only dino so far where juvie stage is honestly better than adult in a lot of ways. Certainly better at its juvie stage than literally any other dino species so far just for the fun factor

[polar mason]

Well troodon juvi stage is grass pov everywhere so its not a high bar lmao. I imagine whatever faults beipi might have now will come more apparent or be fix with the new map so we'll see when it drops

[wild cove]

Oh I mean just any dino on the roster, not just Troo. I can't think of any other dino species where I'd willingly toss my adult dino into death because juvie stage is more fun than adult. Pretty much every other species except Hypsi (since no growth) is more "grind to adult so you can actually have fun with it without insta-dying"

or worse

bush afk to adult

[polar mason]

Ya it would be interesting if the younger stages of each dino filled different niches, had different diets to accommodate that or even had abilities it didn't as an adult so that the growth stages of each dino were unique enough from the parent that it was an actually fun process to go through

[knotty venture]

Oh that's a interesting idea! Maybe the devs will see this

[polar mason]

Not uniquely mine. Its been mentioned a bunch so I'm sure they've seen it

[knotty venture]

Still it's a good idea so long as it gains traction a bit maybe it will be considered

Could help babies avoid canni adults too

[wild cove]

Its one of those things people have been asking for since many updates ago, so far to no avail. Maybe that'll change now that they're mixing up how they do production

[polar mason]

Ya and it would have people not notice the longer growth times of the larger tiers if they had a more engaging system than just hide or die

[wild cove]

I think the main problem is curbing player behavior, like with KOSers who literally have fields of bodies to eat and want to kill people just for funzies

A lot of people think the Isle is a fighting game

Mechanics can only do that so much

[polar mason]

I'm not one of those but to be fair with a lack of 'endgame' mechanics that exist right now it essentially is a I'm bored, I'm going to find the biggest thing I can and see if I can kill it kind of game right now

I'd imagine improved nesting mechanics and mutations will curb that

[wild cove]

Honestly I think those sorts of players will always be in the game regardless. Kind of like how people keep trying to tell the devs to make a mechanic that'll stop mixpacking from happening, but even if they added one, I don't think it'd stop it.

Or how they wanted to get rid of south falls way back because everyone just hung out there as the main hotspot. And the devs removed it. And then center pond became the hotspot. And people said to remove it so there wouldn't be a hotspot. And now people just hang out at northwest and center river.

Certain behaviors aren't going to change no matter what mechanic they introduce. I think a lot of the same players who are doing those things now will still be doing it when new objectives are added

[polar mason]

Ya for sure there will always be those kinds of players but if the devs introduce mechanics to engage with outside of that that give players something to do then eventually the players that don't engage with those mechanics will get bored I imagine. Mix packing and hotspots and all that are probably never going away completely but if they give players better options that conflict with that play style then I think long term it will become a more rare occurence

[wild cove]

True but while the Isle isn't a fighting game, it is still a survival pvp game. So how do you create systems that go against those types of players without also going against the spirit of naturally occuring pvp?

[polar mason]

I'm not too sure, I think hands down the best fix for endgame they could implement in the nearish future is an improved incentive to nest through the mutation mechanic. It gives players a reason to stay alive to adulthood, pack with their own species and actually having eggs around means ovi's egg stealer niche isn't completely meaningless. I also think nesting and having babies should be a requirement check to have your dino progress from adult to the elder stage. Again it curbs super aggro playstyles by rewarding a more defensive one with a potentially larger, stronger character

[wild cove]

Potentially yeah. They'd have to really improve how nesting works though because most people don't want to even attempt nesting with how it works now

With diets and nesting grounds and such

[polar mason]

Ya it's completely pointless right now and if they don't address it before the egg stealers get in then they're going to be a pointless diet section as there will be no eggs

[wild cove]

Nesting grounds are particularly bad tbh

Its a good idea for mid or large tiers maybe but not small tiers for sure

[polar mason]

Ya, that's probably down to the design of the map as the size difference of the tiers allows you to more and less accessable areas. We'll see what they do with gateway

[limber delta]

@dusky surge if your suggestion was applied to the game, what would stop packs from carnos from being even stronger than before?

This is mostly an all around buff and doesn’t even consider the problems you yourself pointed out. It just makes solo carno better and carno pack scaling even moreso

[distant torrent]

the more I think about carno and its ram in general and how it’s supposed to be better at hunting small game than medium, the more I lean towards deleting ram and replacing it with this #balance-feedback-discussion message

[limber delta]

I don’t think the charge is the issue not by a long shot, the reason it’s so good in packs is because its prey simply can’t run away from it, so they have to either dodge or fight it, both of which are harder the more you’re up against. So we either balance it around being a pack hunter or we rework it to only be good for small prey like omnis, which would include an overall damage nerf but a damage buff towards small creatures specifically to compensate

[golden coral]

If charge was just properly adjusted to be a pursuit and kill confirm tool, that'd basically fix the problem. Also no, balance around groups is... very questionable at the best. And shouldn't be a thing for carno for that matter, it's not really a pack animal.

[limber delta]

That’s why I’m saying to rework it as a pack hunter as one of the paths to balance it.

Because right now it is too strong in packs.

[knotty harbor]

i dunno about it being strong now but before yes

me and my homies just murdered three of the as omnis

there are 5 of us

also calling it omni is cringe ill call it utah

[golden coral]

I don't think reworking it based on being a pack hunter makes much sense, carnos coming in pair, or at most trios, doesn't really say pack hunter to me honestly.

More so just adjusting the kill potential of the charge, at least against larger things, so it doesn't scale so well.

[knotty harbor]

i honestly think with its hunger drain it should be balanced to be pure solo

[golden coral]

Carno currently is... not that good to be fair, but it's still very good in groups because of the charge

[golden coral]

I'd like the hunger to be better to be fair, and I also personally am in favour of most things being able to pair at least

[knotty harbor]

or fix its hunger drain so its not so bad

[golden coral]

Becuase well, A, nesting should be a good thing and something you want to do, and B, we're social critters, so it's nice to have someone else to interact with :p

And we all know how... irritable people can be if you show even some tolerance to another species :p

[knotty harbor]

weird take but i think most carnivores hunger drain should be like cerato unless for some reason they need to make it fast for balance reasons

[golden coral]

Weird how?

[knotty harbor]

no i mean my take is weird

[unborn iris]

Carno is mainly only weak right now vs raptors.. and that's because of the same issue, it's just not built to deal with smaller dinos like it's supposed to.

[knotty harbor]

not really i clap carno as cerato as well\

[unborn iris]

Even before cera nerfs a carno with good food could 1v1 a cera if you had half a clue.

[knotty harbor]

i 1v2 some carnos yesterday as a cerato infact

[unborn iris]

There are many bad players in this game.

[knotty harbor]

i mean they werent really bad though they were trying to bait me and also use their ramm to knock me down i was just better

[golden coral]

To be fair, I don't know how ceras hunger drain is, but I'm not sure why your take would be so weird?

[knotty harbor]

its between carno and deino levels

[golden coral]

Cerato is, from what I've heard, carnos best matchup

Which is... a bit strange honestly

[unborn iris]

You don't even need charge. Just alt bites.

[golden coral]

Especially since cera, while a doable fight, shouldn't really be ideal to go after

[knotty harbor]

now that i read that that makes no sense and doesnt narrow it down lol

[unborn iris]

Especially now with no vomit lock.

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, omnis, your "small game prey" hunts you instead :p

[unborn iris]

Exactly.

[golden coral]

It does help, I've been both carno and deino :p

[unborn iris]

That's a pretty big spread. 45 minutes to 90 minutes.

[knotty harbor]

but yeah i think carno needs better stam management and better hunger drain besides that i wouldnt really touch it the way it is

[unborn iris]

Carno has the quickest hunger drain and deino has the slowest. 😁

[knotty harbor]

yeah i know, after i read what i put i was like im a moron lol

[unborn iris]

Lol

[knotty harbor]

cerato food drain i think is a good medium for larger land carnivores

[unborn iris]

Yeah, I haven't timed ceratos. But it feels about like raptor. It's crazy how fast 45 minutes feels to an hour.

That 15 minutes makes a big difference

[knotty harbor]

yes it does

[dawn falcon]

Hottake people:
Since Gateway is going to be big, and since Spiro is being trashed, all stamina should be universally buffed. An extra minute at least to every dinosaurs stamina pool.
Let me explain the benefits of this system:

[unborn iris]

I would love for univeral stamina/run time buffs. To 2-3x. And make tracking a bit better.

Hunting stuff is actually fun.

Right now it's not really a thing.

You either outstam it pretty quick or it loses you quick.

[dawn falcon]

This will, firstly, buff solo plays, especially when you have to run away from rogue players. So many times have I played Cera for example, and was forced to run, only to lose all my stamina and realize I’m basically screwed now

This will also make combat way more skillful, rather than who runs out of stamina first. Again, going to the Cera example. Had I stood and fought, I would have to worry about my stamina running out. I managed to take on two Ceras by myself, but died because the fight took too long and caused me to run out of stamina, to which I was face tanked by both players.

[dawn falcon]

This

[unborn iris]

And I really miss the days of riverside wallowing.

I hate they are set on these dumb mud pits.

[knotty harbor]

i completely forgot about that lol

[dawn falcon]

Buff trots so they’re useful for travel, replace walking with the current trots (which should also be the main “combat stance”) and make stamina consumption for sprinting be exponential rather than a static, fixed cost.

So you won’t be punished for sprinting away from danger, but if you use it as a form of travel rather than trotting, you’ll lose more and more stamina

[limber delta]

Honestly if you somehow killed 3 full grown carnos. They’re a skill issue. Omni is pretty bad against anyone that knows how to alt bite because you can hit them just after they’ve pounced, though this is likely a bug.

[knotty harbor]

it was more so that we all would go in at the same time and bite them in like a line formation and then one tried to run and bleed out and the other got pounced to death

[crystal wharf]

@dusky surge overall, really like the idea
would propose this though, change the charge to be the headswing
and have it work on momentum determining your damage and knockdown potential, rather than just entirely axing the alt bite while standing

[dusky surge]

momentum-based attacks would be pretty perfect, but I wanted to play it safe by proposing more generic attacks

[crystal wharf]

fair enough, i guess momentum based isnt the right word, more speed based

pretty much, make it more engaging by having to press the headswing button at the right time, and reward players for using the swing at high speed, letting them get that nasty charge damage and impressive knockdown

[dusky surge]

@uncut trellis known issue to do with directional attacks

and pouncing

[uncut trellis]

Yea thought I’d heard about it, didn’t experience it to this effect till now tho lol

[dusky surge]

yea it's not fun

[golden coral]

Honestly looked like the omni pouncing from opposite somehow managed to pounce through and knock you off, and thus you both got hit by the tail when it swung

[dusky surge]

it's really hurt troo populations

[golden coral]

But could be the known issue as well, yes

[polar mason]

I actually didn't know that wasn't intended. Died to that as omni and thought I just timed it poorly

[dusky surge]

yea it's a known thing, it's real bad lol

[supple sonnet]

@cursive flare

"I'm not sure if this is a bug or not but when I was eating a cera came at me and started chuffing so it means it got a buff from MY body so it could freely tank my damage and steal my food. If this was intentional I'm not sure how that's fair if you could just run in and gain a buff from your opponents body."

Thats Not unfair, thats how Cera is designed. Its a Bully and a scavenger, supposed to look for rotten stuff or steal

[sonic grail]

Yeah, that's not a bug it's the feature. their whole point is to steal your food

[dawn falcon]

it is. QA knows about it

[meager oriole]

This is like

Not even desync… that’s crazy.

[meager oriole]

It does, ish?

Pounce occasionally does that on both Troodon and Omni where it just bugs out entirely and pounces something else.

One time as Troodon I got pounced by another Troodon despite being across the field during combat and everyone was confused what was happening.

[wild cove]

I don't think its a "raptors ran into each other" issue because there are tons of times I've pounced things as Troodon and been hit by an attack by the dino I was attacking while on its side. Tons of times I died or almost died to a Cera or Carno because it bit my Troo while it was latched. Allegedly it was a problem with alt bite hitboxes and was fixed but Stego tail swing hitbox might not have been adjusted.

[dusky surge]

@sweet fable pachy does move faster than cera, but not by much, and its trot speed is so bad that once it runs out of stam (which is very likely considering how much cera has), it's dead

[sweet fable]

Well, I didn't know, but I just saw my 100% adult pachy friend today get outrun by 2 Ceras, he ran through the forest, but got deleted after about a 10 sec chase. It was just sad. Pachy should outrun with speed and stam by more than the current stats, especially considering Ceras have just about everything busted in the game (vomit lock, can eat rotted meat, good hp, good heal, good speed, a built in enemy radar with chuffing, etc)

[rustic rock]

despite the dynamic light system in the map, there is a skybox that uniformly changes day and night experiences across the entire map. What seems to impact your experience of day and night most is the obstructions such as trees and other obstacles. staying near the swamps and rivers you'll likely experience more night time then day time if your defining night time by Nigh vision necessity only.

[wild cove]

Its possible your friend could have come across a hacker, especially if they're playing on officials. The hacking problem has been more rampant during update 6 and movement speed is one of the hacks

[south sandal]

Pachy barely runs faster than cera

Isn’t Pachy like 40.3 and cera 40

[dusky surge]

no

[rustic rock]

hacking infests every game nowadays, like to a large degree, really sucks.

[wild cove]

Oh trust me, I know. I play Red Dead and GTA. It doesn't get much worse on the hacking problem than those games 😆

[mighty lichen]

Has anyone else experienced weird hitboxes since the last patch?

[rustic rock]

Like what?

[wild cove]

Yeah hitboxes are pretty jank this update. Someone said they fixed it with a patch like dinos biting Troo and Omni while they're latched but I've seen people complaining about it still as early as yesterday so I don't know that they actually fixed it

[cosmic pelican]

Alt bite hitboxes have been fixed, never been sniped on someones side as omni or troodon. I think people complain about the brief window where you can hit pouncers mid air.

[minor maple]

At least the troodon snipe was fixed, that was tragic

[abstract creek]

i honestly think its a sync issue at this point, you have to very careful with timing your pounces if you dont want to get hit, make sure theyre not going to bite in your direction while your latching on or even when youre already on because i have died plenty after the hitboxes were fixed lol

omni is better since you dont straight up die but troodon still suffers because of the sync

[cosmic pelican]

Desync always has been and always will be a problem, too many players from different regions, and creating a server for all of them would not be very cost efficent to say the least. :/

[abstract creek]

yes 😔

[cosmic pelican]

If 100 player servers can have this bad desync, imagine 200 players...

[abstract creek]

ikr

what we gon do when gateway is out man lmfao

[cosmic pelican]

The actual landmass is smaller than in spiro

[abstract creek]

ah ok thats good

[cosmic pelican]

The map is a bit bigger tho

But who cares about oceans lol

[abstract creek]

i was about to say i heard people saying is much bigger but i didnt really believe it was THAT much bigger

[abstract creek]

true

[cosmic pelican]

I think they were talking about spero

That scrapped map was basically a whole continent lol

[abstract creek]

oh yeah fr 😭 that wouldve needed 400 players

[cosmic pelican]

400? 1000 at least imo

[abstract creek]

lmfaooo

[rustic rock]

Carnotaurus always throws up, is that suppose to happen? or this a bug?

[south sandal]

dont over eat

[dusky surge]

also dont eat rot

[distant torrent]

don’t eat bones

[rigid tulip]

Whats wrong with my carno take? Obviously cera is better than carno against literally everything but I feel that carno is just too easy to kill a cera with. The matchup needs tweaking imo, without directly nerfing carno or buffing cera.

1v1ing multiple ceras just completely changed my mind on the matchup, it felt inherently unfair

[knotty harbor]

i honestly dont have an issue with current cerato vs carno except for carnos lack of stam

as a cerato player i can 1v1 a carno and come out on top but in a 1v2 unless they suck i lose and thats how it should be

[dusky surge]

"bring back exceptionally boring stunlocks to make an animal viable and if u disagree ur biased towards a certain dino i dont like"

no

[slim dragon]

I love that kind of take

[rigid tulip]

Cera stunlock is probably the worst mechanic we have ever had besides land deino’s right click spam

[knotty harbor]

its not a mechanic its a bug

[rigid tulip]

Nobody notices the deino thing tho because few deino players are smart enough to use it

[rigid tulip]

What is?

[knotty harbor]

the cera stun lock

devs literally said it wasnt post to work like a stun lock and was only post to be used for tracking via the puke smell thing

and they said they would fix it

[rigid tulip]

Thats a good sign

[normal lark]

Honestly if it's said to be a tracking attack, wouldn't the whole tracking thing be kinda pointless since if the target manages to escape, how cerato gonna track them down because they only vomit once and don't leave a trail.

Also why make cerato have a tracker of sorts if it's mainly just gonna bully other animals off a corpse unless it's bacteria is gonna do something over time which would likely compete with megalania alot

It should mainly be a tool used for defensive purposes, sure the vomit lock is problematic, but you can rework it to still be a good defensive if not better while removing the problem of vomit lock

[knotty harbor]

yeah nah they should remove vomit lock, and also this idea that cerato is only a scavenger is ridiculous. and i think the way the vomit should work is that you apply the bile and instead of only puking once you puke every now and then until it clears your system

[dusky surge]

cerato is a bully, not just a scavenger, no one thinks its just a scavenger

[normal lark]

Yeah, cerato is made to be a bully that takes care of people who dare challenge it for a body

[knotty harbor]

people have made that arguement before that its just a scavenger

[normal lark]

It's bacteria should be use to give cerato more edge over its foe

[normal lark]

Cerato is said to have short comings as a hunter while being best as a bully

By the devs themselves

[knotty harbor]

eh if they were gonna do that it should have applied heavy bleed or something but that would be even more op with its biteforce

[knotty harbor]

in other words its still a hunter but its not as good at it

[dusky surge]

cerato isn't meant to be a hunter, no

it really doesn't need to be, not every carnivore needs to be shoehorned into a hunter niche

[normal lark]

Yes, cerato has everything to find a corpse and bully others off, but bacteria is litterally a stun lock tool rather than actually giving cerato anything to truely use to its advantage

[knotty harbor]

thats literally a dumb take, its a carnivore that is decently fast and has a huge amount of stam is obviously a hunter all carnivores are

[dusky surge]

ptera

[normal lark]

Cerato can still hunt don't get me wrong, but a major bulk of its diet is scavenged

[knotty harbor]

ptera hunts fish get wrecked

[normal lark]

Cerato is otherwords, is a wolverine

[dusky surge]

lmao dont call that a hunt

[normal lark]

Wolverines can hunt, but do they do that regularly, no

[knotty harbor]

the act of hunting a fishing are literally the same thing the only difference is the type of animal your going after

[slim dragon]

The point is, it shouldn't be that fast nor have such high stamina

[dusky surge]

^

[knotty harbor]

yeah that way a rex can catch it super easy right lol

[dusky surge]

yes that's exactly what he meant good job

logical extremes my beloved

[slim dragon]

There's slow
And there's slower than rex
There is a lot of room between the two

[normal lark]

He means not so fast and such to make it a God tier hunter but enough to atleast outrun those where brute force is impossible

[slim dragon]

It's the best way to defend an undefendable opinion

[knotty harbor]

im aware he didnt mean it that way but i tend to make comments like this against you two because yall lack common sense

[dusky surge]

yes because making a completely illogical and extreme argument really works against someone who lacks common sense

checkmate indeed

[knotty harbor]

its illogical to make believe because you dont like something that it should work a certain way

they said its a bad hunter not that its not a hunter

[slim dragon]

But cera right now isn't a bad hunter
It's a good hunter

[normal lark]

Yes, but ir shouldn't have an ability centered around hunting, most of its abilities boost its strengths as a bully and a scavenger

[knotty harbor]

not really everything can run from it except pachy and stego

[dusky surge]

they never said it was meant to be a hunter, nor did they say it could hunt but poorly, all they said is it has shortcomings as a hunter

and as we see right now, it has no such shortcomings

[knotty harbor]

dude literally quoted a dev earlier keep up

[slim dragon]

Cera can outstam pretty much everything

[knotty harbor]

yes and ive said this is a problem

[normal lark]

Cerato needs nerfs, but it also needs a rework around its vomit capabilities to be more defensive than just vomit lock