balance-feedback-discussion

[hollow canyon]

I don't think anyone has done it on this update, but people have done it in the past

[meager oriole]

Let me get one

[knotty harbor]

Stego on land obviously drinking

[golden coral]

Well if the lunge stun was involved, it might not work this time around, but if you didn't use that, there shouldn't be much of a difference, unless the alt change also affects it

[knotty harbor]

That's not even an adult stego lmao

[meager oriole]

Literally

[knotty harbor]

And he face tanked like a dumb ass

[hollow canyon]

https://youtu.be/MTC9SU-rIjc?t=253

there's loads of videos

[golden coral]

That's how the fight goes, if they both fight, that's the thing

[hollow canyon]

of Deinos killing Stegos, but the situation where Stego is drinking and remains there

without running in land or doing something else

isn't that common

[meager oriole]

Deino can stay on Stegos head with alt attacks??

[golden coral]

Sure, the stego can run away, in which case the deino just goes back into water

[meager oriole]

^

[golden coral]

The point, I believe, is that you can fight a stego as deino and even win, 1v1

[hollow canyon]

it's a difficult fight by default for Deino, but it's its worst match up

one from which it can disengage

[meager oriole]

Deino also can just avoid Stego

[hollow canyon]

its main issue is that it's too slow

[knotty harbor]

All I'm seeing here is stegos spamming right click and not paying attention

[hollow canyon]

if Deino was back at 24km/h it would be doable much more easily

[meager oriole]

Welcome to the average Stego player

🧀

[golden coral]

What would you have had the stego do?

[meager oriole]

Because also that’s literally what Stego would do, even with fast jabbing and walk turning

The Deino isn’t going anywhere lol

Once/if Stego becomes 7-8 tons it will probably be unkillable for a Deino 1v1 unless if it’s literally afk

I would not want an apex playable losing to a playable with a crocodilian kit anyway

[knotty harbor]

Move away from the water, keep the crocs head at the tip of my tail forcing him to burn Stam then move away again, when he tries to go back to water chase down and kill

[golden coral]

Even if you quick jab, with that specific angle, it's not that hard to avoid if you keep moving as deino, which you can with the alt bite. And since stego has to either turn or attack, while you can attack on the move as it were, it would still be doable if the stego attempts to fight, unless it has seen you coming and already lined up the angle. But then you're a master ambusher as deino, so why did the stego see you coming? :p

[meager oriole]

If you move away from water a good Deino will just go back into water

[golden coral]

here's the thing, any reasonable deino would not follow in the first place.

[meager oriole]

🧀

[hollow canyon]

if Stego moves from the water then that's the same as Deino moving into the water - the fight effectively ends

[golden coral]

The moment the stego turns, you do as well

I'm talking specifically a fight, ie, trading blows, not one of them going away and forcing the other to follow where they "can't"

[hollow canyon]

not to mention that guy has some videos where he kills Stegos on land with Deino, I would never try that but he's done it if you look closely enough

[knotty harbor]

I didn't say sprint into the hills lol I literally mean keep him at body length away

[golden coral]

So in general, both sides can avoid the other, deino better than stego, and both have a way to end the engagement, deino better than stego, but still. In an outright fight, stego has the advantage, but deino can still kill it if it plays correctly.

[golden coral]

The sentiment still applies. If that stego turns and actually moves away, not just turns in place, you just back off.

[knotty harbor]

If both are played correctly stego wins.

[hollow canyon]

if both are played correctly nobody dies

if you're dumb enough to run after Stego in-land

it's on you

[knotty harbor]

Which means deino gets no food thus lost

[hollow canyon]

it's the same thing as Stego chasing you into the water

wat

Deino doesn't need to kill Stego for any real reason

it's perfectly fine killing Omnis, Carnos and other Deinos for its best diet

I don't even bother eating anything else with Deino

it's not worth it

[meager oriole]

Why does Deino need to hunt Stego?

[golden coral]

No, if both are played correctly, there's no interaction between them. Stego is not deino prey, and well, deino is not something a stego should be all that wary of.

[meager oriole]

The only other thing it can’t one shot that isn’t a mirror match

Whilst it de facto one shots everything else

[hollow canyon]

to get a bad diet

I think

[golden coral]

There's plenty of potential matchups where it's more or less "not worth it", it's doable but the best option is to not bother

[knotty harbor]

Organs frankly have become more important for diet then actual dino

[hollow canyon]

I can get those easily enough out of Deinos

by killing them en masse

[knotty harbor]

True until 8 of them come looking for the cannies lol

[hollow canyon]

I don't typically have issues with that

[knotty harbor]

Nothing against cannies btw

[hollow canyon]

I do die if I attack whole groups

that's how I die most of the time

but groups of 8 aren't very well organised

I have chewed up through them one by one at times when they isolated

[slim dragon]

That "did the stegos do this ?" message is still the funniest thing I've ever seen in this game

[hollow canyon]

ikr

I was laughing really hard when I saw one croc ask that

spoiler alert

he died btw

[meager oriole]

They get confused all the time

I did it with a friend one time

Attacked like 10+ Deinos and everyone was so confused

In chat we were acting like as if we were also confused lmfao

[slim dragon]

Oh ? did he get killed by a stego too ?

[hollow canyon]

presumably

btw it was funny but now the funniest one

I had one where a large group of Deinos found bodies of 2 fully grown adults I had killed one by one

one of them decided that his conclusion to what he saw was

"they probably fought each other and died simultaneously"

spoiler alert - he died shortly after too

I unfortunately didn't print screen this, I've stopped doing that at some point

[slim dragon]

sadge

[hollow canyon]

also a matrimonial offer back in legacy was pretty funny

although that's cringe comedy

[slim dragon]

I haven't had many experiences with cannis since I typically play more chill dinos
But it's always weird
Once I was a galli in a group of 4, we meet a juvenile who 2-calls us so we invite him to the grou^
Then he starts attacking us, so we kick it back
And then he tries to run away but we can see his nametag
So he died

[hollow canyon]

I have some other messages from when I cannibalised people

but Idk if I can post them here as they kind of break the rules

I mean, probably not all of them

[slim dragon]

dm maybe ?

[hollow canyon]

this one doesn't break the rules and tbh it's hard to find them cause I just toss them into the same folder

[slim dragon]

lol

[crystal wharf]

no clue why people are disliking saltys suggestion, not much wrong with it

[meager oriole]

Probably just people being reluctant to buff Tenonto

[hollow canyon]

no, they don't want it because it's in a way a nerf to Cerato so - that's a no-no

[slim dragon]

I would honestly have preferred cerato to be underpowered and unviable at launch rather than how it is now

[warm shuttle]

Idk the people in this server can never make up their mind

[knotty harbor]

Y'all know if rex is going to have an ai still or was that scrapped?

[white crest]

how the heck does everyone expect us omnis to use pounce, this is why I'd literally rather fight a steg with bites then pounce

you could have the most mid reaction time and still have enough time to hit an omni when it pounces you

[unborn iris]

I always feel a need to explain this kind of thing, but I'm afraid people will just start abusing it more than already.

[fresh laurel]

what the hell even happened, did you just do a tap pounce and died mid dismount or???

[white crest]

died wile on him, didnt even get to dismount XD

[fresh laurel]

💀

we headin back to update 4 pounce with this one guys

[white crest]

yeah, I'd rather fight a steg with bites then a carno with pounce XD

[fresh laurel]

ngl find it funny that omni pounce has never been truely balanced ever at this point
its either too op, broken or too weak

🦈

[hollow canyon]

I feel like this is a misunderstanding - that Stego doesn't hit you mid-air

it's hitting you when you're already latched onto it

...for some reason

I've heard that it's what happens when something alt attacks while something else is latched unto it.

[meager oriole]

Desync moment

[hollow canyon]

I don't think that's desyn, I think that's a bug

@fallen vale Very balanced, definitely intended, should stay in the game as it provides so much enjoyment when you can't attack for 2/3rds of the fight due to puking up your guts.

[fallen vale]

tha'ts more than 2/3rd lol

I hope this teno enjoyed growing over an hour

[dusky surge]

I'd do it that bacteria is applied over time. So, for instance, you bite target, and instead of applying all of it instantly, it instead passively applies 1% bacteria per second over 20 seconds. A charge bite applies 2% per second, and more bites stack over each other, accelerating the speed of bacteria gsin/. Would mean you can't use vomitlock, but also means cera can use its puke smelling ability, as well as dissuade attacks.

[tardy wind]

@brave breach while I agree that pteranodon is currently quite boring, it's actually quite overpowered against dinos such as carno. I've seen (on multiple occasions) pteranodons killing carnos while they physically can't do anything to stop them. But that's a whole seperate issue that I feel the only solution is a complete pteranodon rework.

What I would like to see currently is the addition of all player Corpses to pteranodons diet. Encouraging a dangerous scavenging lifestyle, I think that could make it much more fun that it currently is.

[dusky surge]

I mean, organs are on ptera’s diet, same with any carnivore

I feel adding player dinos to ptera’s diet gives people the idea they should hunt them

[tardy wind]

I can see your point, but at the same time I think people need to stop thinking that way xD food shouldn't always mean hunt. I mean, cerato is a good example. They've got carno on their diet but they aren't exactly built to hunt them

[pseudo spruce]

It has to do with desync considering when you have both parties sides recorded - For the one getting pounced the Utah is in mid air when they are killed. And for the one doing the pouncing they are latched on when they get killed, desync definitely plays a big part in it, an example is in FPS games where you get shot behind a wall, but for the enemy you are not behind the wall yet.

[tardy wind]

Surely the desync is worse this update, right? Because I don't feel like it was as prominent of an issue as it is right now

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah I'm with you on that it has never been this bad before, even back in update 3 I don't remember getting so frustrated and feeling cheated in death so often while playing Omni, and with Troodon you really notice it because of how low the healthpool is, as with omni sometimes you will only take minimal damage from getting hit in the tail or you may be able to face tank one hit

[meager oriole]

It’s been worse

There is definitely server/multiplayer issues with 6.5, though.

Please fix server infrastructure…

[tardy wind]

Yeah exactly. I'm finding that it's near impossible to hunt things that attack quickly like cerato because of this. As a Troodon that is

[pseudo spruce]

Yes with stego it is a lot more forgiving as baiting attacks is easily viable, I have stayed away from ceras as everytime I have tried to attack even just a solo cera my group gets demolished lol, and every one of them dies mid pounce usually

With cera specifically the alt attack is extremely broken, the hitbox is out of this world

[tardy wind]

I saw a video testing the alt attacks, and for both carno and cera they can hit behind themselves. It's insane

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah I seen the same one, a lot of good videos out there that open your eyes to how jank it all is

[latent lotus]

@tiny depot its better to make the vomit animation quicker or male it cancel if u atack then to make that cera can only make things puke once cause one puke doesn’t completely remove someone’s stamina

[tardy wind]

I dont even understand how they messed up the hitboxes that badly. Why did they even change any of it in the first place?

[pseudo spruce]

They change stuff for balance, but I agree I don't know how its possible that the hitboxes were like that, I think it must be neglect because you can literally see the Attacks Hitbox while in UE

[tardy wind]

Exactly, it's just too ridiculous to really see it as a mistake, in a way. I mean of course, theres zero way thats intentional. But like you said, neglect is probably the reasoning for it.

I am happy with the update, but I feel like they were just plain lazy in a lot of areas.

[old hull]

not the first or 2nd time they added blatantly broken hitboxes to evrima

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah, stegos tail

Update 3 I think was where it truly shined

[old hull]

pretty much

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah lol stego got rushed to all fukery when it was first released

[old hull]

tenos kick at one point would have more reach then the tail too

[pseudo spruce]

Jeez

[old hull]

and we all remember carno in the last patch

[pseudo spruce]

Lol, I just remember

[pseudo spruce]

yeah thats what I was about to say

that one was just sad

Like how do you ignore carno so much while in the process of balancing it that you somehow don't see that, yet thats the exact situation we were in

[old hull]

if only they learned how to make small tweaks to dinos instead of either overbuffing them to absurdity or nerfing them into the ground so hard they basically cant be used

carno has yet to have a patch where its just good , its either completely busted or useless lol

except maybe on carnos release , it was pretty solid back then

[pseudo spruce]

It always confuses me that the devs always take the drastic change route

Its like they think everything they change has to actively be noticed by the community

[old hull]

like ceratos vomit lock , both people watching the stress test and the people in it knew instantly that it would be a problem , how did a full team of devs who designed the feature from the ground up not for a second think hmm yeah this aint gonna do lol

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah this is a point I bring up so often with broken mechanics, there is only one reason why it is released the way it is, urgency and neglect - 2 reasons but ya get the memo

[old hull]

my suspiscion is that they just dont play their own game at all except running around in their dev builds , so on paper their balance changes sound nice but they never try it on an actual server with players

[pseudo spruce]

Another thing, foraging for gallimimus

gallimimus can only attain 2 food sources from foraging, Frogs, and Compys. Frogs are the only source that provides nutrition, they don't give ANY nutrition at all when eaten

Frogs fill up less than 1% of gallimimus nutrition

Making foraging completely nullified, so that must mean foraging was never tested, because they would have had to have picked up on it not working correctly, right?

[old hull]

you would think yeah

[pseudo spruce]

There is just so many things that are overlooked

I take away the ignored because I dont know that for certain

[old hull]

them not playing their own game wouldnt even be such a big problem if they actually used their own damn QA team , but from the lil snippets of info ive seen from them they just ignore them anyway

[pseudo spruce]

Seriously dude, I remember when QA was open to everyone aswell, not just certain privileged roles

Like for some reason I am able to find TONS of bugs on the first day I play the new update, imagine if us regular players got to do QA like back in update 3, or I think it was 4 ( The one wiht Deino added)

[old hull]

yuuup , thats why i cant stand the excuse people use like oh its release date of course they are issues the testers missed , like the issues we usually find is such basic things that HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE SEEN IT

if its super obscure bugs that arent easy to have happen sure , but when something as basic as eating your diet as a galli or ceratos vomit lock , how could noone have seen that

and from the few things the stress test people and QA have let out , it does sound like those people do bring up those issues but they just get ignored anyway

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah, for sure, I just find it interesting when simple fixes are ignored the diet system is a huge example of this, it is not broken but poorly made

So much could be fixed in the diet system by simply adding variables like if this slot is above 70% full yet slot 2 is empty - set nutrition to fill partially full slot

[old hull]

like alot of features in evrima it feels half assed , like they just said eh its good enough to put it in only to move on to the next thing

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah, and the real question icomes down to is it caused by Urgency, or ignorance

I think its a mix of both

[old hull]

id say quite a bit of arrogance as well

[pseudo spruce]

Oh yeah and with the diet again, they could literally give us 150% max nutrition slots, nothing would be worse but everything would be better.

We lose our diets at such a fast rate already that extra 50% is just a little bit more

[old hull]

you see how the devs talk to people , especially anyone who doesnt lick their boots constantly and they treat them they are just silly children who shouldnt ever question the almighty devs , they can do no wrong afterall ;)

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah dude, I haven't had much experience with them personally but I have SEEN how it goes

eitherway, I always will hold a inner hope for this game as its the only Dinosaur game apart from JWE that has gotten me over a 100 hours haha 680 hours at present

And thats the reason I get so annoyed with it

[old hull]

almost at 2500 here

[keen plover]

This was cancer from the beginning. Hopefully they look at it lol

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah I could have easily done those hours if I got this while I was in the middle of college, I got into the isle at the end of it though

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah lol ceratos Bacteria + vomit system is all sooo scuffed

[keen plover]

I think they wanted the update out so they didn't have time to change Cerato's vomit locking shenanigans

[old hull]

its just so confusing why they did it like that when you already had a solution to stunlocks with teno and pachy , just do that again

[keen plover]

It was already 6 months. Likely chalked stuff up to a later fix

[old hull]

hell they removed the stun from pachy entirely but then give cerato something even worse

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah the community was probably begging aswell I wasnt here on the Day of the update drop but its what I would imagine

Around the 6 month mark of no updates everyone gets pretty damn fed up

[old hull]

true but since when do they care what we think xD

[keen plover]

I hope we get smaller content drops. Gateway shouldn't be delayed for the new playables if it's ready

[old hull]

one can hope , but i sadly predict yet another 6-8 months of nothing

thats how its been for 3 years now

[pseudo spruce]

Honestly, thats what I have been begging for in general feedback so often, probably made atleast 3 posts already asking for regular hotfixes, not even asking for much just 3-5 bugs each hotfix

[keen plover]

I hope we get more hotfixes / balance changes. I don't want to wait for half a year for Cera to be changed

That would be crazy. Dondi recently said that won't be a thing anymore, but we'll have to see lol

[old hull]

i feel like a broken record saying this but , id take anything they say with a ocean of salt

they have contradicted themselves , or straight up lied so many times i cant even remember them all

[keen plover]

They did say the roadmap would either launch with the update or would be here shortly after so

[pseudo spruce]

God damn Dandy dondie

[pseudo spruce]

They said in their devblog A new Roadmap is coming soon, that was a month 1/2 ago haha

My assumption of soon from The Isle Devs is 3 months, and also I saw something about releasing gateway independent of the new dinos

[keen plover]

3 weeks ago

[pseudo spruce]

Oh my bad lol

[hollow canyon]

I seriously doubt it, in this instance it happened shortly after the pounce has started but I have seen Ceratos just alt biting forward and killing troodons that were latched onto them for some time. Same goes with Omnis being latched onto anything. Every animal seems to be doing that with an alt attack.

Or at least that's how it was, idk if this hasn't been fixed. But based on that - I doub it has.

[old hull]

the alt attacks are very busted and there is also horrible desync , sometimes both happen at once sometimes not , but either way its very annoying

desync just adds even more bs to the already dumb massive hitboxes

[pseudo spruce]

^

[meager oriole]

@tight cove What do you mean when you say vomit locking is not an issue?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/778350416831709314/1124558049160474695/GIF_2023-6-29_8-25-35.gif

[tight cove]

Most of the time it’s your own fault if that happens to you 💀

[meager oriole]

Except it's not?

[tight cove]

Explain

[meager oriole]

Can Stego control how many Ceratos it comes across?

2 Ceratos can absolutely just vomit lock a Stego, and the more times you vomit, the easier it gets.

Realistically, it would be 3 Ceratos minimum, and due to Stegos incredibly counterable kit it's... quite easy to get hits off Stego.

Even when I was playing Stego with its walk turn + fast jab, I still got semi-vomit locked.

Remember, even your normal bite is septic. It takes 5 bites to make anything vomit from a full stomach.

Vomit locking Stego will also happen on Trike and Rex.

[tight cove]

In stegos example is can’t control how many ceras it meets which is true but a stego is more than capable of defending itself from multiple ceratos.

[tight cove]

Yes but again if you let that happen MOST of the time that’s on you

[meager oriole]

Irrelevant

[tight cove]

You have to get bitten 5 times to vomit or 3 times and a charge bite like cmon

[meager oriole]

CC-locks shouldn't be in the game, that's not fair. Especially with how simple it is to currently play and fight as Cerato.

[tight cove]

Keep in mind it’s not a hard lock you can still move and run

[meager oriole]

You are probably thinking it's harder than it actually is.

I pretty much test on Cerato every day, and have had multiple fights in actual gameplay and not scripted tests... it's really not that difficult.

Some Ceratos have died to lag, though.

[tight cove]

It honestly varies by skill

[meager oriole]

It does, but not as much as you think. This shouldn't be a thing in the game.

It only depends on "skill" as in you not being a wuss against Stego.

[keen plover]

Assuming a player starts the fight against a cera with 100% hunger

[tight cove]

Fair point

[meager oriole]

Too many people overestimate Stego, so that skill is really just knowing how to counter Stegos kit and not being overly cautious.

[keen plover]

Tbf they should just make it scale. It current takes 5 bites to puke a raptor

and 5 for stego

[meager oriole]

Scaling with weight is one of the few changes I would like.

[keen plover]

It needs to puke a raptor in like 1

and 10 for a stego

[meager oriole]

Much more than 10

[keen plover]

Fair, but you get the point

[tight cove]

Imo I really believe cera is perfectly balanced rn, it’s slower than pretty much anything and anything that is slower than it can easily kill it

[meager oriole]

It's statistically relatively balanced, the only base stats I would change on Cerato is its runtime.

Cerato has too long of a runtime

[keen plover]

I think it's fine

[tight cove]

That’s good though it needs it

[keen plover]

Imo we should get a universal bump to stamina

[tight cove]

Cera needs high stamina 💀

[keen plover]

Especially for Gateway

[meager oriole]

I wouldn't touch Ceratos runtime until we see it with a charged bite costing stamina.

Not like 3% either, I'm talking 7-8% stamina.

A tool meant to be used defensively is used offensively because of how spammable it is.

Cerato in general is too good offensively.

[tight cove]

Ppl still forget cera is slow and has low hp

[meager oriole]

It's an attack that deals 375 damage with a l o t of bacteria, I don't see a problem making it take a hell of a lot of stamina.

[meager oriole]

It's not slow

[tight cove]

It’s not slow, but it’s slower that everything in its size range on land pretty much

[meager oriole]

Yeah, but it's by no means slow.

In fact, X Zag was surprised at how fast they made Cerato.

^ iirc

[tight cove]

Not only can teno and carno out run cera, they can easily kill it if they play correctly, but again that depends on player skill and the situation

[meager oriole]

Cerato doesn't play like that, though

If you chase after Cerato as both, you die.

Well... if you're in jungle as Carno anyway.

It's more punishing to Tenonto especially.

Cerato "runs away" to make them waste stamina, and then pretty much just tries to vomit lock them.

Once Cerato makes them vomit once, Cerato wins.

Like Carno managing to charge Cerato on the head, fight is pretty much just a Carno W at that point.

[tight cove]

As a teno if you don’t wanna fight a teno you can run and make distance then lose it in the forest, and since teno trot is the best in the game, easily make distance

[meager oriole]

Vomit lock is stupid

[tight cove]

Is it’s necessary though

[meager oriole]

Vomitting being a silence can be fine, but being able to be spammed is bad.

[tight cove]

Legit without vomit lock cera is gonna get face tanked

[meager oriole]

So?

Cerato isn't supposed to punch up without a body.

[tight cove]

Wdym so? Cera should be able to be viable without needing a body, this that is why the devs gave cera a bacteria bite in the first place

[meager oriole]

Its septic bite is used in an offensive way.

Just because Cerato can't facetank Carno doesn't make it not unviable.

[tight cove]

It can be used for both, but again, cera is slower, deals less dmg, and has less hp than both teno and carno

[meager oriole]

*Cerato deals more damage

[tight cove]

I’m talking about regular bites

[meager oriole]

Tenonto will probably be downsized.

(again)

But even rn, its matchup with Tenonto seems fine.

Tenonto chases Cerato, Teno dies. Cerato tries to fight Tenonto head on, Cera dies.

[tight cove]

Without vomit, body buff wouldn’t even matter anymore because you’ll be able to straight kill it 😂

[tight cove]

Why do you think that?

[meager oriole]

Both Tenonto and Cerato should be running from Carno into the jungle.

[tight cove]

I mean they can if they want to lol

[meager oriole]

No, they s h o u l d be.

[tight cove]

Why? How come?

[meager oriole]

Because it’s Carno and that’s its job?

It’s also larger than both of them.

[tight cove]

They way carno is rn that’s just not gonna happen

[meager oriole]

The way Carno is right now is underpowered.

It can be 1v1’d by Omni

[tight cove]

Underpowered is a stretch ngl

It’s a weird mix between pursuit and ambush hunter

[meager oriole]

How Carno is supposed to play changes every month, lord knows what it is this month.

[onyx scroll]

Agreed on the Omni fall damage. It's a bit ridiculous that you can't fall 1.5x your height without breaking your legs and taking half your health. For a dinosaur built around jumping as it's main gimmick it should be far more resiliant

[dawn falcon]

Because, Carnotaurus, which has been stated to be a pursuit, plains hunter, according to the current roadmap, hunts and prefers to be, I quote, “the absolute nightmare of every small critter as this”.

Now I won’t agree with the statement that teno should always run away from Carno into the forest, but tenos main threat when entering the plains should be Carno

[tight cove]

1300 kg cera and 1600 kg teno ain’t small bro

[tight cove]

Alright

[dawn falcon]

They’re both near the bare minimum of being pseudo mid

So almost a small tier. Afaik dibble is under them, while being a true maximum small animal, however that’s beside the point

However, with current balance you have three current problems:
Cerato having such a low skill floor, and small skill ceiling, that anyone lobotomized can pick it up. which is a contributing factor to the current ceratopocalypse

Carnotaurus having a billion different personalities because this community can’t find a fine line between what should or shouldn’t happen to it’s balance.
However Carno is so underbalanced that you’re relying on charging into anyone not looking at their screen.

Omniraptor being an absolute menace because it’s ability is not a double edged sword anymore and continues to dominate.

So we have the new current land apex, which is comparatively either Cerato or Omni, and the main predator for both of them, which is meant to keep them in check, is now being preyed upon by its own prey

[tight cove]

Ngl Omni having no pounce recovery is crazy rn, anyone can play as Omni and dominate

[dawn falcon]

I like the idea of Omnis acceleration being a second slower if it misses a pounce

Gives you the smoothness of current Omni gameplay, but adds a punishment that may or may not backfire

[thin mantle]

Still needs a major value reduction

[tall bronze]

[dawn falcon]

In what way

Bleed values?

[thin mantle]

Bleed and damage yeah

[distant torrent]

#eatgrassanddie

[meager oriole]

@prisma pagoda Disagree

How would Spino deal with Trike? Spino would just go Deino mode.

Spino isn’t really supposed to be a land predator…

I’d rather Rex be first, unironically

Or both

Spino is certainly not hunting Stego or Trike though

[alpine plover]

I made a litteral paragraph on my opinion but it was too long and i cant send it now, even when shortened, cuz discord counts it as if i sent it for yall to see

Damn

I could send it here if someone wants

React if yall want to see it

[prisma pagoda]

(In response to Carth, because the reply feature bugged before I sent this, I guess) Ideally, I would rather see both at the same time rather than one over the other. I was not trying to make it seem that Spino would be stronger against Stego than Rex. I’m aware that Spino would stick closer to the water. However, I personally believe Deinosuchus currently is the bigger “fun killer” of the two (Deino and Stego), and Spino is more adept at killing that. Also, Spino could definitely pose a threat to Stego, even on land. At least, I think it could. Even if it can’t, Cerato, Omni, Carno, and Troodon can pose a decent threat to them already. I don’t think they’re lacking in predators as much as some people think they are. Deino is literally uncontested by anything and denies a critical resource to every other species. As I said in my initial post, you can avoid Stegos. You can’t really avoid Deinosuchus, and if you can, it’s not as easy as it is to avoid/ignore stegos

[alpine plover]

I agree that adding Rex would solve the Dieno and Stego problem. Devs should not get rid of stegos, just add something big, to create an Ecosystem of apexes.

Ecosystem would work nicely, you got players that enjoy small dinos and stuff, ppl who enjoy medium-sized and, lastly, apexes. Apexes are long to grow so only the most skilled can survive all the cannis, natural predators and hunger.

Stegos would fit nicely, they can travel in bigger packs and fight Dienos, who also comonly are in bigger packs. Rexes would probably pack as well, but cannis exist amongst all carnivores, so there wont be like a 100 rexes in one place.

(If anyone reading this, rages bc they got killed by a Dieno, do not come near their packing spots, like Center and NW. Plus not all rivers are full of Dienos, so just traveling furthutrer south is a good idea. - Dieno main)

My opinion on Spino is- they would be a death star if their swimming was as good as Dienos and they could run. I heard someone say on this Dc that spinos are not probably as good in swimming as Dienos, so adding that would sorta ballance it. And, rivers would need to be bigger cuz Spinos are kinda big.

The center would become a war if Spinos would swim well and run, Dienos players would quit and decrease in number, Stego and Rexes would get some damage too, but not as much as Dienos.
Why?
Bc right now, Dienos are dependent on water, its their escape from predators when they grow up, so if Spinos appared they would be really screwed. Rivers are already just right for Dienos and adding a Big Semi-Aquatic would make them stuffed.

I know, i know, Dienos are "Too op" and "Killing for fun" but just avoid them.

Rn crocs, aligators etc drown their prey so making them more land-like would not work out. Devs even made them Water dependent so... Its just different, not bad.

Ok lol

I made a few mistakes lemmie edit

Oh i f up

Fixed

Btw Gavials ( similar to crocs ) have long faces adapted to hunting fish so when i say Crocs, Aligators etc i dont count Gavials

[prisma pagoda]

I totally agree with the River size not being adequate enough to support Spino rn. Since the new map is on the way too, maybe water will be more attainable with the larger bodies of water like lakes and such, and Deinos won’t have so much of a vice grip on it.

Also, spawning anywhere other than Center or South for an infant carnivore means (essentially) starvation, since it’s not exactly possible to hunt where there’s little to no people. The reason most infant carnivores spawn center is because that’s where the players are, and players=food, but just as they know it, Deinos know it too. So then what happens? Carnis spawn at center and pray they don’t have to cross river, and if they do have to, pray they get across

[alpine plover]

In center, if they go south somewhere near the forest, there are no Dienos so its safer then going in the middle of fights.

Also, from experience, in bigger packs there are more 30%-50% crocs so at least natural selection works

[prisma pagoda]

Lol yes, at least that’s true. There’s safer places to go for sure. I just personally think Deinos have too much of a grip on water. I’m sure my opinion will change when Gateway releases though. And yes, thank goodness for natural selection

[alpine plover]

Haha yea, i hope we get something cool plus lore on Gateway, and natural selection my beloved, dum pepople die.

Dienos sure have a grip on waters but they are slower than a truck on land so its kinda fair, plus i think Devs nerfed their bite-force to be lower then irl lol

[plucky aspen]

please dont continue trying to bypass the automod

[alpine plover]

18,000 N (1,835 kgf; 4,047 lbf) to 102,803 N (10,483 kgf; 23,111 lbf). Dienos bite force

18,000 N to 102,803 N - cleaned it up a bit

So yea, in game they have 450

Not 4500, 450

Yea they should litteraly break everyones bones

Hah, and 450 ofc talking about 100% grown Dieno

Oh and Dienos are more visualy similar to Crocodiles

I have a question, how much Bite Force will rexes get?

[golden coral]

I don't think we know yet, but probably a fair amount. Stego does 1200 damage or so, so something like that maybe, at least on it's special attacks/abilities

[alpine plover]

35,000N - Bite force of a irl rex, 18,000 N to 102,803 N - bite force of a Dieno irl

[alpine plover]

Thanks for the info!

[golden coral]

Mind you ,that's just speculating, but I'd imagine rex gets one of the highest biteforces because well, rex, it's what it does

[alpine plover]

Yea, but still thanks for the speculation! Really cool to know anything

35,000N - Bite force of a irl rex, 18,000 N to 102,803 N - bite force of a Dieno irl

I dont want to research deeper, if everything in isle would be irl it would become a deathmatch

[eager saddle]

I’d appreciate another water apex so that deinos would be spread out more. It would make it easier to find food (the other apex) but riskier though some pvp focused people would like that. If they are almost equal, it would even prevent the population in the water being 90% deinos

[alpine plover]

When humans get addded, they will be a snac

[alpine plover]

Rivers would become too small for 2 apexes = lag + war, center would burn Potatoes ( for The isle standards )

[eager saddle]

Hmm that’s true...

[alpine plover]

Yea, and seperating Dienos from the water wont be a good idea ( someone suggested it earlier ) cuz Dienos water is like Rexes land, its their only safe place

They are strictly bound to water already and its diffetent, some ppl want Dieno to become like "the rest"

I kinda consider them fish that can breathe on land

( i know they are not really fish )

[eager saddle]

There are some places when you can drink 100% safe so people just need to learn those I guess

[eager saddle]

I meaaaaan 😅

[alpine plover]

Yup. Just a little south from center and your fine

[alpine plover]

big fat water lizards - my brain

[eager saddle]

Hate that spot🤣

[alpine plover]

XDD

[eager saddle]

But nerfing the deino and removing the diet gain from full stomach hurts. It doesn’t do anything, it only forces to not eat sometimes.

[alpine plover]

Yea... The hate on dienos is really annoying, they are already balanced and a bigger nerf will make them worthles

Canis are a big problem for starters anyway

Its hard not to die sometimes

Skill is needed, like in some games, you need skill to play a certan character

[eager saddle]

I get the frustration, getting oneshot is never fun in any game

[rigid tulip]

Deino is balanced the playstyle is just incredibly cringe and lame for most people

[alpine plover]

Yea... But, devs cant make all dinos equal. Like irl, there are " classes " you know, from smallest bugs to tigers

[alpine plover]

You are just inpatient...

[eager saddle]

The problem lies more in “where do you draw the line between realistic and fun for the player?”

[alpine plover]

I love dienos, got 100% myself

[alpine plover]

Yea. Devs really need to think

[eager saddle]

I love the ambushing. The thrill of your patience being rewarded

[alpine plover]

The Best feeling... None "ambushers" get it...

[dusky surge]

Deino isn’t balanced, it’s still the strongest animal in the game, as well as having growth far too easy for an animal of its niche and size

I find it easier to grow deinos than carnos

Which should not be the case

[alpine plover]

Do you have a 100% dieno?

[rigid tulip]

Stego is stronger but deino can just survive in the water. It desperately needs competition

[eager saddle]

It depends on how many cannis are in the game that day

[dusky surge]

Yes. Most of my deinos end in suicide because it is so dull and without challenge

[eager saddle]

True!

[rigid tulip]

Cannibalizing as a deino and watching people cry in the chat is so hilarious

[alpine plover]

Damn, are you peacemaker?

[dusky surge]

Stego isn’t stronger, it has far more threats, far less strengths and far more weaknesses. It’s only redeeming quality is its raw damage output. Compared to the plethora of advantages deino has, it isn’t comparable

[alpine plover]

Bro thats a comeptition you are asking for 💀

[rigid tulip]

Majority carebear. We get put on canni lists. Cannibalism isnt a final solution to the problem of competition

[eager saddle]

I hate cannis, but they aren’t wrong about the competition

[dusky surge]

Cannibalism is a massive contributor to how easy deino is, I hope Rex isn’t a cannibal

Rex should kill it’s own kind, but not eat it

[eager saddle]

That sounds like the opposite to “its easy to grow”

[rigid tulip]

By stronger i mean its raw power. Deino is not as strong but it does have the safety of the water which is broken

[alpine plover]

Spino would be as big as a dieno, imagine rivers but 90% of them are fighting dienos and spinos

[rigid tulip]

Especially when carebears are around

[alpine plover]

Haha, i think Rexes will have canibals for 100%

[rigid tulip]

When deino gets competition i think it will be absolutely perfectly balanced. Its already significantly weaker than its real life counterpart

[eager saddle]

True but in a 1v1, they both have that safety

[rigid tulip]

Same with stego, they are just both in the game too early

[dusky surge]

Cannibalism means you can support dozens upon dozens of the same species and not struggle with starvation. By removing cannibalism, you make large populations entirely unsustainable and encourage food competition between animals

[rigid tulip]

Stego can die but exclusively to good, coordinated players in vc who get one shotted by the stego

[dusky surge]

God I hope not, then we have rexpocalypse. They promised Rex would be difficult, cannibalism makes it much easier

[eager saddle]

But how is it easy to grow when you get eaten constantly

[alpine plover]

Bro, Dienos are Strictly water dinos, adding a water and a land dino would straight up erase the problem

[rigid tulip]

Deino has less threats but it can die easier is my point

[alpine plover]

Imagine being a 10% rex and getting cannied.
Over
And
Over
Again

[rigid tulip]

Based adult rex

[dusky surge]

Pretty easy. Cannibalism only impacts the bottom line, who will just respawn and try again due to the lack of progress lost. It makes adults WAAAAYYY easier, and if Rex has an accurate growth cycle, adults will rarely catch younger Rexes

[eager saddle]

Can you imagine thr undeep area near the bent to center waterfall if spinos existed?

[alpine plover]

And, canibalism is not what devs add, its the players that make the infinite circle of cannis- get killed, grow up, kill, get killed...

[dusky surge]

That should happen without the dietary incentive. Losing 10% is meaningless, all that is is making sure the adult Rexes live longer without proper challenge

[alpine plover]

Bro that wpuld straight up be a body, not a river

[alpine plover]

I mean- cannis kill 20%, 30% too. Even 50% arent really safe

The thing is, spino would make Dienos unplayable bc their best card, water, will become common. Like your safehouse lacking doors. Devs know about that. The whole thing about dienos is their ability to swim and drown...

And if Dienos did make a hostile spino leave water, it can just run as Dienos struggle to even get out of the water...

Spino would destroy dienos, and that would make the game lack its somewhat iconic dinosaur that haunts the rivers and brings stress to even drinking...

[rigid tulip]

Bro what kinda argument is this man. Every other dino has its realm threatened by other dinos and its not unplayable

Even against dinos it cant really kill easily like that, for example carno and omni

[alpine plover]

Bro, imagine trying to run away from a carno with no legs

[rigid tulip]

What?

[alpine plover]

Rivers would be very laggy, they would need to be desperatly bigger

Canibalism of Dienos would spike, bigger ones killing the competition

[rigid tulip]

There would always be more deinos than spinos lol. Its safer, takes less food, and grows faster. U can rely on numbers like omni does with carno

One competitor doesnt cause nuclear devastation of a population to the point of server lag. Cera does not make servers consistently laggy killing carno or omnis

[alpine plover]

There are two outcomes- your opinon and complete masacre of dienos

[alpine plover]

The thing is, other dinosaurs have all the plains, jungles and mountains.

Dienos are very limited to water...

Look at the map. Dienos are really limited

" But the swamps are big! " There is no players there, no herbis, no food... Noone goes there

[alpine plover]

95% of the map are plains etc. Mainly used rivers are only in center and nw. So imagine the frames of many ppls laptops/pcs

Yeah, around 1

[alpine plover]

For a meter of river, there is a 100 of plains

So thats kinda my point, spinos would overpopulate the rivers, easier to live cuz they can just go on land, and kill dienos that need the water to survive. Idk if many pepople know that, but

Dienos dehydrate and swimming gives them some hydration, like they are drinking constantly but on a smaller scale. They can refill their hydration by just drinking or, swimming tough swimming is way slower

[dusky surge]

Waterways are very different on Gateway, much wider and with many more lakes and isolated bodies of water

[alpine plover]

Cool

[true ginkgo]

@prisma pagoda what would solve the spino problem? After spino solves the deino and stego problems?

[knotty harbor]

Meteor?

[prisma pagoda]

This is where my idea begins to have problems. I developed this idea believing it would be a significant time before Gateway went live, and even then, I don’t know too much about Gateway’s map ecology. However, if there are oceans planned, Spinosaurus would have a rough time going against two things: Mososaurs and Plesiosaurs.

That being said, Spino players could choose to lay claim to the rivers existing on that map. If that were the case, Deinosuchus players (from what I’ve seen) have a tendency to group up and face off in a territory battle with anything that appears to be larger than it (Stego and maybe Cerato rn). The same would be true if Spino were in the game. In a 1v1 between two adults, it’s likely Spino wins. If it were 1 adult Spino vs. a horde of Deinos, Deinos would come out on top.

Obviously there’s room for holes in that assumption of the food chain’s evolution also, but hey, this is only my speculative guess.

(Also, Spino’s enemies on land would be like Carno’s and Cera’s. Omni packs, Troodon packs, Cerato/Carno families, Stego herds, etc. Spino isn’t exactly invulnerable, it would just take strategy and coordination to kill)

[knotty harbor]

Problem is the deino hordes will become spino hordes lol

[prisma pagoda]

Oh for sure. However, Spino’s size would arguably be its biggest disadvantage in shallower waters. In the event its spine is above water level, Petris could nibble at it without Spino being able to do anything (if the petri went far enough back to avoid being 180-bit). Also, as lame an answer as this is, having Spinos have Spinos on their diet and also limiting their group size to two would help in some aspects. Obviously in regards to cannibalism, another Spino wouldn’t be a Spino’s main food source, but if killing one gave good nutrients, I don’t see why they wouldn’t

Also, Spinos would not be able to camp water bodies as hard as Deino. I’d imagine that in turn for a bigger bite and more land power than Deino, its oxygen meter would arguably be a good degree lower

[bright oasis]

So you want spino to be cannibal and have small group sizes

Literally just deino on 2 legs. Guess what would have just as easy of a time surviving, heck even more so than deino. It being both safe in water and able to go on land means it becomes a huge issue. Spino would legit replace both stego and deino players. Most of the server would legit be 1 animal. Deino is already an issue and it's got a tough time even doing anything on land. I saw 25 deinos in center last week. I actually counted. That was 1/4 of an official server all as deino all in one area. And you think spino wont be a problem

[knotty harbor]

Spino won't be an issue for land animals as the spine makes it impossible to ambush from water

Unless your dumb and drink from the deepest part of a lake

[bright oasis]

I'm not talking about solely ambushing

[knotty harbor]

What's it gonna do run you down?

[bright oasis]

Players have tons of problems with stego players being all over, plus croc players being an issue and you wanna add an animal bigger than both stego and deino this early on and make it deino but bigger

Making spino cannibal is not solving any issue

You are missing the entire point. The devs want spino to be a threat to deino, so in turn it would also be a threat to stego. Its able to not only water camp EVERYWHERE as it doesnt need to swim, the rest of the playerbase literally could not interact with it aside from going "ah theres a spino, nothing I can do"

[prisma pagoda]

I’m not saying that’s what I want. Rather, that’s just how I imagine the devs would handle it. I’m sure there’s better ways to structure its diet and role in the ecosystem. The whole reason I came up with this idea, by the way, is because Deino is a big, big problem right now. This was just a theory on how it could be addressed beyond gutting it, because that would just ruin the fun for every Deino player. Also, there’s definitely dinosaurs they could add going forward that could prey on Spino in larger water bodies (Mososaur and Plesiosaur, as I stated earlier). In a perfect world, those Dinos that would prey on Spino would then have a suitable aquatic ecosystem to thrive on without the need to pursue land animals (since, y’know, they live in the ocean) but that, like any content they’re going to add, will take the devs time. However, Deino is an issue that really needs to be addressed asap, because like I said in my initial post, the monopolizing of every water source ruins the fun for any infant carnivore who practically needs to spawn center to find any suitable food to prey on

[bright oasis]

Because one dinos a big problem we just add another even bigger problem? Not the way to go about it

[prisma pagoda]

Also, you’re acting like everyone playing Deino would just play Spino because it’s “more op”. If everyone playing this game was out to be a meta slave they would all be stegos and Deinos. While Deinos make up a large portion of any official server, like you said in your one example, they were only 25% of the player cap. It’s not like you don’t see people playing Omni, Carno, Cerato, Troodon, etc.

[bright oasis]

The first solution should be getting gateway out THEN figuring out a way to deal with deino of it's still an issue. Gateway has tons of varying water sources, huge wide uncampable rivers and even some smaller bodies of water are clear enough to see deinos swim to shore.

[bright oasis]

They are almost all currently stego and deino and cera. The meta picks.

[knotty harbor]

Spino doesn't have the lunge and it's spine will make it really hard to camp water, if you die to a spino on land you deserved it

[bright oasis]

25 deimos JUST AT CENTER. I did not count anywhere else but knowing deinos players they would likely be some south and NW. I'm undercounting total deinos on a server. Have 25%+ animals be in the water and thriving while that very animal is also not contributing to anything other than filling more deinos stomachs when they die is absolutely not good.

If deino is anything to go by there would easily be 10 spinos in an area if not more. That's not something that should realistically be happening either.

Theyd be better at taking food on land than deino too, all kills would be theirs. Let's not make spino cannibal and let's not add it this early on. We're still waiting on a new map with entirely different waterways plus future balancing for deino that isn't just adding another power fantasy animal that survives the exact same way with as little effort as deino

[dusky surge]

Spino should not be a cannibal, nor should it rely on ambush hunting. Due to its massive size, it'd do best as a brawler bully animal that steals food from others, akin to cerato

Cannibal spino makes zero sense to me, the animal should be killing other spinos on the basis of food competition, not because it's easy nutrition

[prisma pagoda]

I feel like I either misworded something prior to this or my previous statement was misunderstood. I never said Spino should be a straight-up cannibal. Rather, it should have members of the same species on its dietary range. It wouldn’t be dependent on cannibalism, because, evidently, that would suck. However, I do think it should still be an option for it

[dusky surge]

Members of the same species on its dietary range makes it a cannibal, and makes it real easy to grow

And mainly, exceptionally easy to sustain

Imagine there are 50 spinos on a server. Waterways are full of the damned things. With cannibalism, the spinos can subsist off other spinos, rarely needing to leave the safety of the water, and given the fact that 3 spinos can likely feed on one spino, this would allow the animal to thrive off this exceptional overpopulation.

Now, imagine 50 spinos without cannibalism. While they can't eat each other, they all share similar food sources (including fish). As the spino population expands, more of their viable prey is consumed by competing spinos, forcing spinos to either kill other spinos out of necessity to ensure they can obtain the most food and control their territory, or die due to malnutrition/starvation as they cannot rely on their own overpopulation to sustain them

By removing cannibalism, you actually enforce the total number of the animal on the server to be lesser

Without cannibalism, as the number of spinos increases, the amount of viable prey items decreases, while the number of direct competitors increases, leading to more and more pressure to cull the population to increase your own chances

[meager oriole]

Remember that cannibalism affects megapack combat as well

If a Spino were to say, die, in combat fighting a Trike, the Spinos will get food regardless

and then the Spino that died just returns to the safety of the megapack when growing

[alpine plover]

I think removing option of canibalism being beneficial would be a good idea. I imagine spino as a mid runner, mid swimmer that yoinks prey of other dinos and has water as an escape and eats fish npcs. They honestly look more adapted to eating fish and corpses, not straight up fighting but they cant have no self defence... In the concept art they are shown to eat juvis, so maybe something like that would be their food source.

Also, dont think they should have a bigger bite force then dienos, their mouths are more adapted to grabbing for smaller dinos, not like Dienos mouths that are build to hava a grip on something

[alpine plover]

And, on RMB they could have sort of attack that grabs dienos tail and makes em lose some stam, only dumb pepople would follow a spinoo with like 20% stamina, allowing them to escape.

They cant be too op, thats for sure. And about the group encounters with Dienos, why not form a group too.

And Dienos should not get any major nerfs. They are balanced, but strong like they are meant to. 100% Dienos have a 500 bite force, thats just right for them.

Btw, dienos dont really group on south. Even if it seems like they should cuz there is a swamp, there are no other dinos. I personaly use swamps to grow to about 30% and go furthurer north, to center or nw

The tail grab should not work on 100%, cuz they weight 8 tons

[alpine plover]

Btw, watch this: https://youtu.be/LC_QPQMLAfM

[polar vine]

nope, cannibalism is a part of the nature and i think it shouldnt be removed in game either, specially for croc. Half of the server is litteraly playing it and the map is empty. So cannibalism shouldnt be removed from the game

[alpine plover]

Oh i meant that no diet consisting of spino for spino

I dont want to change anything for dieno

😅

[polar vine]

oh k

[alpine plover]

Fun fact- biggerst speculated Dienos was around 15 m. And, some may even lived over a 100 years!

So imagine seeing a dieno half bigger than it already is... Maybe an elder?

And fun fact2- indominus rex had some Giga and Dieno dna, and it was the reason it was bigger then rex!

[eager tide]

Honestly they added deinosuchus way too soon, it should of been a Kaprosuchus :3

[cosmic pelican]

Even if it was smaller it would still be just as op. Since it would have the same mechanics and playstyle

[eager tide]

But it wouldn’t be a tank

The other mid tiers would be able to kill it fully grown

Plus it wouldn’t be able to grab a fully grown carno or cera

I don’t mind the mechanics

But a kapro would be on the same level as the other mid tiers

[cosmic pelican]

But whats the point of it existing if its basically a smaller deino?

[eager tide]

I’m saying it should of been added instead of the Deino, or added before the Deino

[cosmic pelican]

Personally I would have preferred bary over deino.
Bary is cool :p

[eager tide]

And because they are fast on land as well

Just smaller

By a lot

[cosmic pelican]

Seeing the deino nerfs we got this update, I dont think the devs want land croc

[cosmic pelican]

Also kentro instead of stego

[eager tide]

I know they don’t, and I’m just saying this because I think it’s cool and think it would of been better balance of it was added instead of the Deino

[cosmic pelican]

Well, probably
But we cant have nice things

[eager tide]

True

[knotty harbor]

I would have preferred Alberto and put bary sucho deino and spino all in one update, in a perfect world

[prisma pagoda]

Totally agree with this. At least, the first part. Deinosuchus should have been added when two things were achieved: 1. A map with larger bodies of water and 2. An aquatic ecosystem that could support Deinos so they aren't reliant on baiting land dwellers. While yes, that's a core part of their gameplay, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be, they should have dinos to prey on that dwell in the water beyond Bepi

[old hull]

they added it to stop people constantly fighting near water for an advantage , and it worked , the croc is fine it does what it was designed to do , keep everyone away and afraid of water

[alpine plover]

I love ambushing clueless dinos when they drink... Its a feeling not many pepople experience. I dont get why some pepople just want to kill everything in sight as dienos, but im glad less ppl do that, not only it makes game a little unnatural, it ruins Dienos reputation.

But can someone talk about how 100% dienos have less stamina as 50%? I get that some ppl just ran on land, and devs wanted to prevent that, but bigger dienos can drown bigger prey so should they have more stam? And some debuff that makes walking on land cost more stam.

Idk its just kind of strange that bigger dienos cant swim as much as smaller ones.

[old hull]

id just make drowning things in general take way less stam , to drown 1 full grown dino is usually your entire stam bar , which is a bit much

[alpine plover]

Yup. But we cant ask for things about dieno, no no no. They are hated anyway lol.

Btw, i found a cool vid with a guy talking about how other aquatics will probably affect dienos, if you want i ts above

[dusky surge]

I've seen that vid, he's probably wrong about sucho considering sucho and deino will probably rarely ever interact. Deino is a depths dweller, sucho is a shallows wader

[old hull]

on paper sure but this is isle , they will interact

on paper stego and deino have no reason to ever interact either and yet they do it constantly

[dusky surge]

Sucho losing that fight is more than reasonable then, considering it's already out of place

[old hull]

oh yeah it probably will lose , but that wont stop them from trying

[alpine plover]

Yea...

[dusky surge]

I feel like saying "they will interact" doesn't mean sucho should be designed to deal with it

[alpine plover]

On paper everything looks nice and cool but irl...

[dusky surge]

Okay but IRL who the hell cares it's a videogame

[alpine plover]

Yea, Sucho is just different but if it becomes a danger for Dienos, well, it wont end in a peace treaty

[old hull]

im not saying it should , still got no clue what sucho will even do besides the basics like it will swim and eat fish

[dusky surge]

I mean, it probably won't even swim all that frequently

[alpine plover]

Haha lol maybe

[dusky surge]

It's clearly shown as a wader

I'd be surprised if it can dive

[alpine plover]

Dienos are really out of all the semi-aquatics the most water dependent

[old hull]

makes sence its a croc

[alpine plover]

So f for anyone that tries make it go out of there

[alpine plover]

Yup, sometimes crocs just chill in bigger pacs and overall chill

And irl they even coexist with small birds that protect their nests in exange for protection

Plus the birds that clean their teeth, a dentist birb

They really love birds

And in evirma they really love duckys too

[dusky surge]

Oh yea, bad news, deino is planned to get nerfed a ton to make it far more difficult (or as the devs say, beaten unconsious with the difficulty stick), making it MUCH harder to grow and sustain an adult deinosuchus next update

[alpine plover]

...

Noooooo

It will become useless

[old hull]

sounds good to me , it should be difficult to grow

[dusky surge]

It'll be fine

[alpine plover]

I hope tho

[dusky surge]

Deinosuchus is wayyy too easy to grow, it needs this

[old hull]

oh yeah , you can litterally fill yourself up and a watch an entire movie before needing to eat again

that is absurd

i was sold a super hardcore survival experience for the croc , what i got was dino daycare simulator in the center of the map

[alpine plover]

That WHITE SKINNERS ( not racist, dont cancel me on twitter ) WILL DIE

They are seen from a mile away, i personaly use greenish skins and im happy to see more pepople go green #eco #recycling XDD

[old hull]

atleast on deino doesnt matter too much since if your playing it correctly noone should be seeing you before you kill them anyway , unless its croc on croc (and at night) where good colors will give you the edge

but yes dont be a weird albino ever

[meager oriole]

Albinos try not being KOSer challenge (impossible)

[alpine plover]

Yup. Also when you are resting for O2 for example, i would rather be not seen near my hunting spots.

[old hull]

if it aint me or in my group , it must die

[alpine plover]

Any% NoAlbino% speedrun

[alpine plover]

Yes

FINALLY SANE PEPOPLE

LETS DEFFEAT THE EVIL ALBINOS ARE

[old hull]

well yeah , if you kill everything you see then they cant kill you , thus you survive xD

[alpine plover]

IT AINT MY FRIEND ITS FREE LIFE SUBSCRIPTION ENDS

[meager oriole]

An albino Deino is like a blue Stego, the thing is a KOSer/Canni and must be destroyed

[alpine plover]

XD

[old hull]

this person actually asking for ceras body buff thing to be changed so it stops camping bodies? its litterally designed to camp bodies lol

[alpine plover]

Yes, yes my brothers. Dealing with the "Albino Dienos" -

Crowd boos

• is our PRIRORITY

Crowd cheering

[old hull]

hey i do not condone this racism , you should kill everyone equaly

[alpine plover]

Yup. Some ppl want everything to be plain Ground stompers

[alpine plover]

Yes, bit of a stego, a raptor for a snack and a tasty carno for a romantic evening

Dream life

[latent lotus]

@alpine plover it is deino, should it really have good stamina even underwater? lets save that for bary and sucho, also currently deino can literally drown anything no struggle

[alpine plover]

Welp, not really stamina, more of a swimming buf, but not a big one.

They could add more momentum or something when you sprint underwater and lose all stam, you get momentum

Even a little buff could be nice

[cosmic pelican]

Do you hippo walk along the river bottom or swim normally?
Hippo walk is almost as fast as swimming and consumes much less stamina

[latent lotus]

idk dude i just dont feel like deino should be agile or fast in any way

[alpine plover]

Hippo walk, its really usefull

[cosmic pelican]

I feel like its fine when it comes to stam usage

Rather have the normal swimming speeds buffed

For beipi too

[alpine plover]

Yea, they are kinda bad

Sometimes you see someone drinking and need to sneak up quickly to attack

[latent kraken]

literal right click gameplay in no way or form does Deino need a buff rofl its been nerfed and needs to be again

[old hull]

you do realize every dinosaur in evrima is just right click gameplay right?

casually ignores the whole staying hidden , keeping your oxygen high and actually finding someone dumb enough to drink where you happen to be lurking , but nah its just right click for insta kill

i keep drinking at center and dying to crocs , pls nerf croc i dont wanna have to use my brain and drink anywhere else >:(

[thin mantle]

None of that is even remotely impressive

[thin mantle]

Like that skill floor is still so astronomically low

[dusky surge]

it's a sad day when people think U5.5 carno was better than what we have now

[hollow canyon]

Honestly

anything was better than the Carno we have now

this Carno is the weakest it has been in this game's history

[dusky surge]

Well yea but U5.5 carno was also bad

[rigid tulip]

Yeah but as a group of 3 ur still invincible unless ur drinking water lmao

Carno will never be balanced until it has a dino that not only can beat it in a 1v1 consistently but also move faster than a human

[knotty harbor]

Every Dino in the game so far is faster then a human

[rigid tulip]

But carno is absolutely not oppressive in spiro. U can just run into a forest and the most skilled players cant track u

[rigid tulip]

No way stego or deino runs 30km per hour

[knotty harbor]

The fastest man on earth runs 43kph, do you think the average human comes close to that?

Answers no the avg human run speed is 10kph

[rigid tulip]

That is barely jogging speed bro what. Athletes run 30kmh on average. In a state of nature with 24/7 exercise and complete whole foods and nutrition it is highly likely for humans to reach modern athlete level. Likewise, the animals on the island already live in this state, meaning they are already at relatively high speed for their species. Comparing the two species in the same state, its roughly equal.

[rigid tulip]

Average run speed of 5’2 50 year old named melvin from alabama

[knotty harbor]

So your answer to the avg speed of a human on this planet is speculation and comparing them to Olympic athletes?

[rigid tulip]

Im not talking average speed im talking average speed of a human who eats exclusively whole foods and runs for hours everyday their entire life. This is the condition that the islands animals are in, im comparing the speed of the dinos in their conditions to the speed of humans in the same condition

[knotty harbor]

That's not the reality of the humans in this game read the lore

And I'd argue the weird tribal group aren't human anymore

[rigid tulip]

Not olympic athletes bruh. A 4.8 40yd dash in american football is equal to 18.75mph or 30kmh. This is the averagr speed of linebackers, players who are well over 200 pounds and not the fastest on the team normally. Compare that to a 150 pound human whos entire life is exercise itself

[knotty harbor]

The humans on the isle aren't born on the island read the lore, your better off comparing the speeds of trained soldiers or mercs then athletes

[rigid tulip]

I know. Im saying that the speed of a stego in game is quite fast because it lives in conditions where it eats whole foods and constantly exercises. Im saying that if a human were in the same position, it would be faster. Therefore humans on average are faster than stegos when they both live in the same environmental conditions. Mercenaries will be slower because they eat chemicalized foods with preservatives and maybe only exercise for around 6 hours a day.

My point is that in the same conditions, hypothetically, a human would be faster than a stego. Therefore stego doesnt count as “faster than humans” just because it can outrun modern average humans.

This whole argument is pointless tho. I just like talking about this because often people significantly underestimate the physical potential of humans. We have documented cases of a human killing a mountain lion (AKA cougar/puma) with no weapons. Not saying balanced should be based off of that tho just talking hypothetically to the potential of our species in an ideal environment or with ideal conditioning.

[knotty harbor]

My argument is until they add a weight room and put every macro nutrient in the game you shouldn't expect athlete levels of human performance

[rigid tulip]

My only point in this argument is that stego is not faster than a human if they both lived in the same envious hypothetically, therefore it doesnt count towards my point regarding carno balance. The original statement regarding the speed of a human was just an arbitrary example of slowness of other animals I said. Im not arguing humans should be usain bolt in game. Im saying that stego doesnt count towards my original point when it comes to carno counters, because it contradicts what I said about speed.

*environment not envious

[knotty harbor]

I mean I'm not really aware of a Dino big enough and fast enough to counter carno if line of sight is broken. Having said that I think endurance hunters or animals such as hadrosaurs if given high Stam might be able to counter carnos

[dusky surge]

Yea they are, they’re made by AE, same thing that made the dinosaurs on the islands.

But, to be fair, they are designed to be physically perfect, so they should be treated as seasoned athletes at least

They are by no means average.

[knotty harbor]

Can you find me something stating this cause as far as I'm aware the regular humans work for the company where as the tribals were a failed attempt at making humans

[dusky surge]

Generation 1 and Generation 2 are hints enough. Tribals are Generation 1, the failed humans, the humans we have now are Generation 2, which are a lot more successful

The humans we have are the second iteration of AE’s attempts to reconstruct humans

[knotty harbor]

So you base this theory simply on generation 1 and 2?

[dusky surge]

No it’s literally been stated by Dondi

I’m just using the easiest form of reasoning

[knotty harbor]

Then just say dondi said it? Lmao

[rigid tulip]

My point was that carno will never be balanced until it has a looming threat that it always must be concerned with. Like teno for example at any given point if a group of ceras or carnos see you ur just dead if ur solo. Carno has absolutely nothing like this unless the enemy can just track where u go even after u zoom off and outstam u. Which is crazy difficult on spiro, as tracking is horrid

I dont think carno is particularly overpowered or underpowered rn, but i feel it may never be properly balanced until something like allo comes to the game.

[knotty harbor]

Yeah I agree but currently cerato can do exactly what you just said

[rigid tulip]

Something it can lose a 1v1 to but also get chased by

[knotty harbor]

Having said that cerato will probably get the nerf bat

[dusky surge]

Carno is underpowered because it fails at its primary role (small game hunting) and succeeds at something it wasn’t intended to do (fighting cerato and winning consistently)

[rigid tulip]

Main difference with cera is that it can just facetank it if it has to. Obviously this is a rare case though as ceras are often in groups but like still. No other dino really has this kind of safety besides deino or maybe stego.

[dusky surge]

Carno also still can’t decide if it’s an ambusher or a pursuit predator and fails at both

[rigid tulip]

I agree, the other day i killed a galli as a carno for the first time and it was miserable but felt very rewarding and it felt like a cheetah vs gazelle style niche and it was very cool

[dusky surge]

I mean, carno should not be designed like a cheetah at all. Cheetahs have stealth and agility, carno is bad at both.

[knotty harbor]

Is galli on carnos diet? I never bothered checking lol

[dusky surge]

Yea but you’ll be hard pressed to ever catch one

[rigid tulip]

We have a predator designed for speed that works more like a stat bully due to it being so awkward to control which is just weird.

[knotty harbor]

Carno should play like a cheetah with Stam in my opinion

[rigid tulip]

Yeah but still it was nice to finally see the small game plains hunter role for the first time ever

[rigid tulip]

How would anything escape it

I cant say much for carno balance tbh I dont play it often but ideally i would like it to have better acceleration and maaaybe agility but tone down the charge damage and its overall raw power

[knotty harbor]

Hiding or outmanuevering, I didn't mean alot more Stam BTW maybe just like 10 to 15% more

I also think it's bite force for something hunting small animals is a bit much but I think we need other medium carnivores in game to compare bite force

[hollow canyon]

average human sprinting speed is estimated at around 24km/h or so

actual athletes push that up by about 5km/h

[latent lotus]

#balance-feedback message yo give this guy more attention his idea is cool as hell

@devout dawn it’s not because we asked for it that we can’t complain that they did it wrong

this is not fine, the isle balance rn is not fine

[warm shuttle]

@tight cove Jesus, i just saw your balance suggestion and i can tell so many people hated it lol

[distant torrent]

vomitlock is just so bad nearly everyone can agree it needs to go lol would it be fine if everyone rolled as single ceras? eh, I’d be fine with that. the problem is when multiple people team up, then it’s just a game of brainless left clicking and no punishment to failed right clicks

[warm shuttle]

Ik but holy legit every single person in the server hated that jeez

[distant torrent]

I still want bacteria to only be gained via eating rotten meat, and nutrients only also able to be gained via eating rotten meat so it’s a true trash goblin. nerf its stam, and make it so rotten corpses give it far more food (also let overeating give diet so that’s not a problem). a buff to its hunger drain would make it fit better and not inclined to attempt to hunt. tossing the idea of vomiting having more long term consequences would also sit well with it too to discourage fighting unless necessary

[distant torrent]

I think it was mostly because of the mention of skill lol..

[warm shuttle]

[dusky surge]

i mean, his definition of skill being "don't be seen by a group of ceras lol" doesn't really match the conventional defenition

[grand walrus]

@brisk laurel Ceratos are slow and they’ll naturally fall down the food chain once more Dino’s come along

[grand walrus]

Maybe people don’t know how to properly use carno? It also doesn’t help that there isn’t many players choosing to play small game either and the ones that do just stick around larger herbivores

Which something must be done to stop mixed herb grouping imo, I’m fine if they use each others niches to each other advantage but I don’t think they should help each other fight if they’re not of the same species

[brisk laurel]

No, they're overpowered as hell and need nerfs. They have far too many strengths with their only weakness being "they're slow". They can outstam all the carnivores, they simply need to keep chasing them then their speed will be irrelevant

[grand walrus]

That’s by design though, they have tough hide and they’re meant to out distance you but maybe make their stam drain quicker or regen slower?

[brisk laurel]

Make their stam drain faster and take away their bleed resistance. It makes sense for deino to have bleed resistance as it actually has armor and tough skin. Cera does NOT have skin like Deino. Take away bleed resistance and increase stamina consumption and that would at least make this dinosaur tolerable. Cause right now everyone is playing this overpowered nonsense and getting away scratch free

[grand walrus]

I like it’s bleed resistance but maybe decrease it so it’s not as strong. Or keep the same resistance level initially but bleed packs on the more something that gives bleed like Omni pounces on it, rendering its base resistance useless the more it gets hit

[brisk laurel]

That makes sense yeah

I just don't find it reasonable or fair that a pack of like 6 omnis can land over a dozen pounces on a cera over the span of 20ish minutes just for it to run it off and literally heal the bleed during the run. That's literally happened. They're RUNNING and the bleed healed. Running is supposed to wear the bleed even further but ceras can heal the bleed during a run, make that make sense

[dusky surge]

The bleed res I feel it needs to keep. It’s designed to bully carnivores off food, many of which use bleed to attack. The bleed res actually makes it a “don’t fight me” bully. If anything needs a nerf, it’s vomitlock

[dusky surge]

Everything can heal bleed in a run

[tight cove]

yeah tell me about it, but it is what it is though but im glad i was able to get that off my chest 😂

https://tenor.com/view/eh-meh-jim-jim-halpert-the-office-gif-25317293

[tight cove]

i mean even if you get seen by a group of ceras unless your a stego you can always run away, and even as stego you can still take on a cera group

[tight cove]

saying thier only weakness is that there slow is just not true 💀

[dusky surge]

any competent cera group can forbid the stego from taking them on. If the ceras are dumb, then yes, stego can take them on

Ceras can also marathon down carnos and outstam tenonto with the right diet

(said diet shouldn't be in the game at all imho but that's a different topic)

ceras are not that slow, and their stam means that they can cover longer distances than most animals can in a single sprint

[grand walrus]

Yea that’s one thing that I think should be changed, Omni should be able to starch bleed and the longer an only stays pounced the more bleed damage it gives

[golden coral]

Cera is at the least overtuned, or carno and teno are undertuned. I also expect omni and troodon to be quite op after the altbite thing is fixed, but we'll have to see there I guess. Also no matter what else, cera vomit lock needs to go, just like pachy stun lock had to.

For the bleed resist, it probably would do omnis well to have something they can't/aren't well desgined to take on, and if it can't be stego for some reason, then cera being a corpse bully around their size is a good choice

[dusky surge]

There is no skill expression to preventing your opponent from possibly counterplaying

[tight cove]

true, but do you mean to tell me a good stego player that uses the environment to its advantage cant take on a cera group? a good, coordinated group of ceras can for sure kill a stego but its still gonna be difficult.

[golden coral]

Depends on the terrain, as long as the ceras can just zerg rush the stego, it dies no matter what

[dusky surge]

Environment actually means very little. You can bumrush the stego to pukelock and win

[golden coral]

So maybe if it's right next to a sufficiently steep cliff, so it can literally prevent attacking from an entire side or more, it won't stop a determined group of ceras

[dusky surge]

Literally, cera has one of the least skill-expressive styles of big-game hunting... ever

Even tailriding took more skill than this

[golden coral]

Currently vomit lock is zerg rush style. You sacrifice 1-2 of the pack and you get the kill no matter what

[tight cove]

this is true, but you can honestly easily lose a cera in the forest since you are faster

[golden coral]

And you get the bonus from both the body down, and regrow fallen due to cannibalism

[tight cove]

honestly yeah i cant argue that

[dusky surge]

The fact that carno (hyper-specialised plains hunter) has to flee into the forest, where it sucks, against cerato (scavenger) should be raising red flags already

[tight cove]

if a pack of ceras all decide to charge bite you at the same time then yeah there is nothing you can do in that situation

[golden coral]

The issue is similar to pachies earlier one, it's not neccesarily that x amount of ceras can kill something, but how they go about it. Same as x amount of pachies beating up a solo carno is fine, but how they do it is what determines if its fun or not

[grand walrus]

Packy stunblock is the only think keeping it alive since it literally takes like 3 bites to kill one

[dusky surge]

it's like getting a herrera to run out into plains against an omni

[tight cove]

i see what your saying, but you gotta keep in mind that carno isn't made to brawl with things head to head while cerato is, and since carno is the fastest carnivore on land it always gets to chose its fights and honestly cera vs carno 1v1 can go either way.

[golden coral]

Pachy can't stun lock any more, which is good, it may be undertuned otherwise, but stun lock was not acceptable. And from what I know, pachies in groups are still pretty scary

[dusky surge]

carno's ONLY good matchup is against cerato, the animal otherwise is literally dogwater

[grand walrus]

But it’s rare to find other pachy players and a solo pachy gets easily mobbed because of it. It doesn’t have enough time to escape

[tight cove]

thats funny because just the other day i saw someone say that carno easily kills teno too lol

[dusky surge]

if teno is bad, yes

[golden coral]

Yeah, solo pachy might need some help, not sure how well it does vs carno, but I think it can outrun cera at least?

[tight cove]

but i will say carno vs omni is rn is one of the saddest fights there is rn

[golden coral]

Teno is probably still capable of fighting carno, should be even easier now with the accel and stam requirements on carno

[dusky surge]

carno gets bullied by pachies for god's sake, and everyone is convinced those things are garbage

[tight cove]

1 omni is capable of soloing a carno 2 omnis and the carno loses 90% of the time 💀

[grand walrus]

I think stun lock should only be activated if the pachy gets a successful headshot, that’ll definitely be worthy of stunning anything

[dusky surge]

as pachy, i have humiliated carnos, its not even funny

[golden coral]

Considering teno requires some amount of skill, I've no doubt carnos can steamroll bad tenos, even with how undertuned carno currently is

[golden coral]

Could work, but I can promise you the former full stun lock pachy could do was not acceptable, at all

[grand walrus]

I get not having it for body shots but head shots are risky so it should be the exception

[tight cove]

like i said in my recent balance suggestion, all the devs gotta do is give pachy stun on fractures and pachy becomes perfectly balenced 🤷‍♂️

[dusky surge]

also more stam and trotrate would be nice

[grand walrus]

True

[tight cove]

yo but i really wanna know who green lighted pachy being able to stun carno and teno every hit that was insane 🤣

a solo pachy could easily kill a carno that was crazy

[tight cove]

speaking about stam, earlier today i ran down a pachy as a cera, but i did see him already running before i gave chase and he was in the plains so he was an easy target 😂

i hope the stam decay diet buff never changes 😂

[dusky surge]

i hope it gets removed

the fact something like that exists makes the game so lame

legit, having meta diet buffs means there is literally no point ever doing anything but eating that combo

[golden coral]

At least it's not meta on every playable?

[dusky surge]

it is tho

there's not a single playable where I wouldn't see it as the best option

[tight cove]

fr?

[dusky surge]

what animal would benefit more from any other diet combo than stam decay?

[tight cove]

imma look at the diet combo sheet brb

[dusky surge]

i wish we had a combo related to either venom or sickness in that spot instead

[sonic flame]

Since it only impacts movement, something like a Stego cares exactly 0% for that compared to faster regen of stam/hp, or bleed resist

[golden coral]

I could see cerato benefit from max protein? health/locked health regen?

[dusky surge]

or i could run down tenos and pachies with far greater ease

[golden coral]

True, but if you go health, you can keep your extra bleed resist better

[tight cove]

i can see tenos and pachys using the bleed resistance diet combo

[golden coral]

Or does cera not have the whole "extra bleed resist while above x hp"?

[dusky surge]

or they could use stam decay to survive ceratos also using it

[tight cove]

yeah i agree

[dusky surge]

because bleed resist isn't useful when you're trapped and out of stam

if it were something like 5%, sure

but 15% stam decay is a MASSIVE amount

[golden coral]

Sure, the extra run time is nice, but I'm not sure it's always the best choice to be honest

Then again, for stego it might depend on how troodons kill them, via damage or bleed

[tight cove]

im not even gonna lie as a cera with 15 stam decay if i see something that has spent even a little bit of stam and i keep on its tracks i can run it down 100% 🤣

[dusky surge]

Bleed resist is nice if I have no way to get stam decay. Everything else is situational. Bleed helps against omnis, sure, but you could face off against a pachy. Fracture resist is nice, but you could never once encounter a pachy. Egg incubation only matters if nesting.

Stam decay is consistently good, all the time, for traversal, survival, hunts, being hunted. Objectively speaking, it has the most value. Not even mentioning the fact it also relates to carbs, which provides stam regen, which is ALSO extremely good compared to the health regen/NV + scent range.

[golden coral]

True there, I guess overall it is the best, which kind of is meh

[dusky surge]

Like if you want a 100% sure good diet that you can never go wrong with, stam decay. Why choose to prepare for something specific when you can prepare for everything?

[tight cove]

as a cera i always use that buff simply beacuse i know no other cera can catch me no matter what

[dusky surge]

All of the stam related diets very much overshadow a lot of the other diets, because stam is universally a part of every dinosaur's gameplay. A hypsi doesn't care about proteins because when is it going to need to heal?

Honestly, if it were up to me, carbs would only increase resting regen (thus bringing it more in line with the other "generic" buffs, and stamina decay would either be a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller value or just be replaced with sickness recovery/venom recovery

Venom/sickness recovery means we can have the "prepare for a specific encounter" diets that we have in basically EVERY other slot besides this one, and would mean there's never a true "best option" that significantly alters the outcome of hunts

[tight cove]

interesting

[dusky surge]

I genuinely wish QA/devs take note of this, because I like the diet system conceptually, but this one issue basically overshadows all the good ideas it has, because I have yet to see a "competent Isle player" use any diet but this one for any reason besides food shortage

What I also find weird is LITERALLY every other combo gives stat buffs of 10% (10% fracture regen, 10% bleed resist, 10% egg incubation), but for some bizarre reason, the highest stat buff is on stam decay at 15%, meaning it's NUMERICALLY the most impactful

[tight cove]

i guess dondi just really enjoyed this buff 😂

[dusky surge]

So it's conceptually and numerically the most viable option, it's just odd.

[dusky surge]

I mean, I'm just confused at how it's slipped under the radar for so long, you'd think someone would notice how many players gravitate towards this diet, regardless of species

[tight cove]

the devs know about this combo and how many ppl use this 1000%

i mean this patch they even fixed it because last patch it was bugged

so they literally fixed it, tested it, saw how many ppl used it, and then still released it for this update lmao.

its really gonna be interesting to see the meta perks that comes out when the perk system drops since rn the devs got at least 60 rn

[dusky surge]

i mean, ideally, they aren't combat oriented

but we'll have to see

[tight cove]

yeah the devs keep saying they wont be but but rn we got the stam decay deit which is enormously helpful so we shall see 😂

[dusky surge]

I want more stuff built around diversifying playstyles, less of just "do thing you already do, but better"

[tight cove]

imagine seeing a teno diving for underwater plants as a deino lmao

[dusky surge]

i REALLY want to see that

[hollow canyon]

they oustam Tenontos without any specific diet, they literally have a longer runtime than Tenonto as a base

I haven't been vomitlocked once in the game but I don't need to be to notice that it is obviously broken and shouldn't be a thing

Also if Tenonto burns the whole stamina it just turns into absolute food for Cerato, while Cerato doesn't really care cause its special attack doesn't even use stam

totally a balanced animal

[brisk laurel]

I do not understand why someone thought that the charged bite on cerato shouldn't use stamina, like HELLO? WHY TF NOT? ITS CHARGING UP ITS BITE, ITS USING 'ENERGY' TO MAKE ITS BITE STRONGER. Ofc that ability should use stamina! And yet devs thought, nah

[dusky surge]

Probably because it has the loud-ass noise to indicate the attack is coming

[brisk laurel]

That makes no difference, like why does audio presence mean a buff in actual gameplay (the no stamina consumption)

[south sandal]

I think cause it doesn’t make you move faster you just use more bacteria

[brisk laurel]

We've established that a cera doesn't even need to go any faster since it can outstam basically every dino in evrima

[dusky surge]

I mean... Most abilities don't make you move faster

Also it increases your damage, not just your bacteria

[south sandal]

Bacteria is what does all the dmg

Caron charge makes you run faster , pounce is literally jumping in the air

Carno *

Croc grab you carrying something

Etc

Things that use up quite a lot of stamina

[hollow canyon]

why would it need to make you faster on top of being like the third strongest attack in the game?

[brisk laurel]

Pounce is buggy and full of desync, it can get you killed most of the time if you don't know how buggy it is. Can barely call that a speed buff bro, raptors need some love oml

[south sandal]

I’m not saying it should , Its just a thought on why it doesn’t

[south sandal]

Yep sadly why I had to stop maintaining Utah

[hollow canyon]

I don't think that's why, my bet is that the devs wanted to dial down the stamina cost on attacks.

[south sandal]

On official it’s unplayable

[hollow canyon]

and just started with Cerato

[south sandal]

Maybe it’s just for balancing for the cera

[brisk laurel]

I main raptor atm, I can't help it. I really love the agile gameplay, but the devs have to do something to buff raptor cause its such a high risk low reward dino right now. Whereas cera is literally so brain dead to play and is OP. Straight low risk and high reward on something that just wins with left click or one right click

[south sandal]

I think they need a buff as well to speed and attack like they glass cannons and can be ran down by carnos no problem

[keen plover]

Nah, it's not needed

[brisk laurel]

Do you mean for ceras or for raptors?

[dusky surge]

IDK what animal you are talking about, either cera or raptor, but neither needs that kind of buff

Both cera and raptor are well and truly strong

[south sandal]

Utah

[dusky surge]

Raptor does not need speed nor damage

[south sandal]

Utah is not strong at all rn

[dusky surge]

Raptor can quite literally solo carno I have absolutely no idea how you think it's bad

It's not even a close fight either

[south sandal]

If a carno got solo by a Utah they jus bad

[dusky surge]

Two raptors is easily raptor sided, 3 raptors easily kills the carno

[brisk laurel]

I don't think they need a speed buff... but they do have potato damage, there's kinda no winning doing dmg with raptor. It's all about bleeding your opponent to death which is next to IMPOSSIBLE with a solo cera, let alone a pack of ceras

[dusky surge]

I mean, carno is bad atm, hence why they can get soloed by raptors

[south sandal]

Especially with desync

[dusky surge]

Don't... Go for ceras. You aren't supposed to

[south sandal]

One min you in pounce next your dead

[dusky surge]

Ceras are not meant to be an animal an omni can comfortably hunt

[brisk laurel]

Kind of hard when 60% of the server player base is playing cerato dude. Everyone is playing cera these days cause of how brain dead strong it is

[dusky surge]

Go for carnos (if you can even find one of the poor things), tenos, troodons, etc

[dusky surge]

That is more of a cera problem, not a raptor problem

Fix the cera, don't buff the raptor to compensate for it

[brisk laurel]

Oh come on now, raptor isn't strong right now in comparison to the other dinos. It could definitely use some love

[dusky surge]

Raptor is quite literally one of the strongest animals atm I have absolutely no clue what you mean

It got nothing but love this update, to an insane degree

[brisk laurel]

Maybe it would be strong if it actually WORKED

The desync is insane man, it can get you killed most of the time

[dusky surge]

Agility increase, NO POUNCE RECOVERY ANIMATION, less stam damage from bucks

[south sandal]

All that means nothing when you pounce and then your dead

[dusky surge]

Desync isn't a raptor balance issue though

So your problem is desync, not raptor

[keen plover]

Desync will always be a thing. I don't know why that's a discussion point

[dusky surge]

(by the way I'm pretty sure that's the janky alt-bite hitboxes which are for some reason 360 degree death spheres)

which is being fixed in the next hotfix patch

[south sandal]

Desync could be fixed with better server

[brisk laurel]

The stam drain from a dino bucking is still costly dude. Pouncing a dino for longer than 2 seconds can be a death sentence for raptor. And yet raptor gameplay is supposed to be pouncing your prey and holding it to inflict max dmg, and yet we can only do touch pounces so that we don't immediately shoot ourselves in the foot

[dusky surge]

I mean... Just watch your stam? Bucking is also costly for the prey, and they can't buck when out of stam, it's all about forcing your prey to make bad choices

[brisk laurel]

Exactly, its always an issue that can't be fixed nowadays. So until its actually fixed, compensate with a balance change for raptor

[dusky surge]

You can't just play all in and expect to win as raptor

There's some depth to how it's expected to hunt

[keen plover]

What does it need though??

[dusky surge]

Raptor has everything it could possibly want and more

[south sandal]

It’s just weak glass cannon

[dusky surge]

I recently played raptor and had no issue with it, it was an extremely laid back lifestyle

[south sandal]

You must only kill juices

Juvies*

[dusky surge]

I literally hunt adults

It's really not hard to win hunts as raptor

[keen plover]

What matchups does Omni suck in then 🤔

Cera of course, since it's anti bleed

[brisk laurel]

Laid back? Damn where you playing then?

I'd love to join that server to have some easy ass hunts

[dusky surge]

Deino because it's deino

[south sandal]

Carno to even tho it’s on diet

[dusky surge]

But 95% of the roster sucks against deino so no surprise there

[keen plover]

What

How are you not dropping Carno's???

[dusky surge]

how

dude carno is omni's BEST hunt option

[keen plover]

Forget the animal. Which is mid. Most Isle players don't know how to play with it

[dusky surge]

Low stam, high bleed vulnerability, terrible agility

[south sandal]

Every hunt I been in no matter what server before th me carno dies atleast half the group dies wit it

[dusky surge]

god that's sad

[keen plover]

lmao

[brisk laurel]

I'll happily hunt carnos if I can find some of the poor sods. They mostly move around in packs now too, I never see a solo carno anymore. It's usually more than 2, and sorry but that makes the fight a bit more tricky to handle with raptors

[keen plover]

That's not the animal. That's the players not knowing how to use Omni

[dusky surge]

omni players are a true different breed if they can literally be handed a matchup on a silver platter and STILL mess it up

[south sandal]

Especially when we constantly fighting two or 3

[dusky surge]

Because solo carno is literally the worst animal in the game

It NEEDS packs to continue living

[south sandal]

You never find solo carnos

[keen plover]

Fair. I don't really expect Omni to hunt 2 Carno's anyways. Even if it's good

[dusky surge]

God carno needs work

This animal needs to be less group-based and more self-reliant

[keen plover]

Either way. With a pack, just tap pounce them

[south sandal]

I like to let them charge run out they Stan

Stam then just keep pouncing

[keen plover]

Do you tap pounce or hold?

[dusky surge]

God imagine holding charge as carno

[south sandal]

You would be surprised on how many do it

Tap

[keen plover]

Yeah, the average player don't know much about the creatures in the game. What happens when there's no tutorials

[brisk laurel]

Its true that the player really counts in making the carno or the raptor works. If you suck and don't understand the gameplay, then you're insta dead.

But you can't expect everyone to use pro plays when some are just trying to learn. Like I said earlier, raptor is high risk and low reward. Hell even carno, but the main issue I have is that cera is the complete opposite. LOW RISK AND HIGH REWARD

If you're not going to buff raptor (or rework carno) then NERF THE DAMN CERA

[south sandal]

Yea cera on top rn

I’ve kill cera 1v1 wit carno tho

From ambush charges

[jovial vessel]

man, imagine how helpful a tutorial mode would be

I also think cerato needs some nerfing, right now it feels too strong for what it is

[neon portal]

yeah for real especially with things like troodon pounce

[south sandal]

And it’s also like as soon as I find a solo carno while we fighting something intervenes almost everytime I hate that

[jovial vessel]

yes, yes literally always

[neon portal]

Cera has amazing stam, good speed, good bite, bleed, bacteria, bleed resistance, damage buff etc etc

[south sandal]

Once saw one cera kill two carnos with body buff , that might’ve been a skill issue but still

[neon portal]

fought group of four carnos the other day as a cera duo and won cause they had no idea what they were doing... last ones alive got salty and drowned in the water

[dusky surge]

Probably was tbh, but then again, cera is nuts

Carno is funny in that it is literally garbage unless it is killing ceras

It fails at small-game hunting but succeeds at kicking cera's ass

[neon portal]

I feel like a lot of the time carno HAS to get that ambush charge off otherwise its screwed

[brisk laurel]

Do you know what's even funnier?

Cera not being on carnos diet list

[jovial vessel]

i wanna murder ceratos but i main utah and thats just a bad idea unless its a bad cera

[dusky surge]

God carno is just bad

[south sandal]

Or a juvie I love to reduce the competition

[dusky surge]

Ambush carno 🤢

[neon portal]

I've killed so many carnos as a cera just by avoiding a charge and then just running it down

[dusky surge]

God I hate the fact it's STILL an ambush hunter

Please for the love of GOD make it endurance-based, it's a goddamn PLAINS PREDATOR

[south sandal]

If you get that first charge on em cera is done for

[dusky surge]

It's a tall, 1.8 ton, exceptionally fast plains predator and it's relegated to ambush

[jovial vessel]

if endurance, would it not need to be made slower?

[south sandal]

This make me wanna do research about the Dino’s to see how accurate this game is

[dusky surge]

Well, I misspoke, I should've said pursuit

Endurance doesn't quite fit

[jovial vessel]

ah I see I see

[south sandal]

Basically they don’t care about being seen cause they fast asf

[dusky surge]

Carno should be all about either chasing you out of plains or killing you

[jovial vessel]

I still miss it when teno and carno were pretty evenly matched

[neon portal]

I've yet to lose a fight to a carno as a cera I don't claim to be good im average at best but cerato is insane in my opinion only way carno wins is with charge

[south sandal]

Teno smokes Carno

[dusky surge]

I do feel teno SHOULD have the advantage against carno, I disagree with herbivores having 50/50s or less with their predators, they should naturally have the advantage

[jovial vessel]

if it doesnt get charged and spam bit to death lol

agree, herbis should have the advantage

[keen plover]

Update 5 Carno with a tweaked charge + better trot 🦾

[jovial vessel]

devs need to stop making them so weak

[brisk laurel]

Same dude, I want to cull the current cerato population cause all they do is bully people off of food that they don't even need (yes I know the dino is actually designed to be a body bully but no one thought about how players would abuse that system by literally stealing food from everyone and everything without a single punishment)

I hate cera PLAYERS so much man. 99% of the time if me and my raptor pack actually manage to find something to kill, and actually kill it.. there is always ceras around that come and steal the food and camp it.

The other night I was playing by rap rock and there was a pack of FIVE CERAS that came and stole all the food laying around and packed it behind stego rock and sat on it. Literally logged after that cause whats the point. They were chasing everything around it.

[keen plover]

Carno has the exact same trot speed as Cera.

1:1

[dusky surge]

Honestly, I'd vibe with that. Reduce charge's damage, MAYBE do that dryo-charge thing, and we good

[jovial vessel]

fr tho agree, they come to bodies like flies and while i get it, it drives me insane after a good hunt lmao

[south sandal]

That’s how I feel you hunt hard work as a Utah then cera jus come take it all

[neon portal]

agree!! They cannot out run a carno they NEED to be able to stand their ground and as said theres so so rarely a solo carno so you're usually fighting a group of carnos so need a good advantage for teno

[jovial vessel]

buff teno

[dusky surge]

I do like how cerato does actually do its intended role, but it needs to not be so good at also hunting things

Fixing the vomitlock is a good step in returning tenontos viability

Because it can slap a cera silly for trying to facetank it

As it should've always been able to do

[jovial vessel]

vomitlock is broken

[neon portal]

yeah I play raptor 90% of the time at the moment and carnos are so annoying they smell the body from half a map away and come bully you off it... you cant even fight back cause they hav ea buff and even without it are incredibly hard to bleed out which is raptor main weapon

[south sandal]

They should only make the cera buff work for bodies they have killed

[brisk laurel]

You're absolutely shitting me if you should give carno that kind of dryo agility. Nope, nah ah. No way.

[dusky surge]

Tenonto once again proving that it is consistently always the best-designed and well-balanced animal on the roster, and is invalidated by other animals having unfair cheese tactics rather than teno itself being bad

[neon portal]

yeah if it was primarily a body bully i wouldnt mind but it can also kill most of the roster without much issue

[dusky surge]

Oh, no, not what I meant. I meant giving carno a "charge" system similar to dryo's dodge. So it can use one of these "charges" for a 2 second charge (sorry, I know, confusing), on a cooldown of 1 minute

[south sandal]

Yeah I like teno i feel it still slaps Carno around pretty well

[neon portal]

I LOVE tenos kit I used to main the hell out of teno but got so sick of huge mega packs of carnos spamming me to death

[dusky surge]

So instead of charge taking stamina, it takes one of these slots

[south sandal]

On teno you can’t over commit and go for kills you just gotta put em out of action and manage stam

[dusky surge]

I disagree

I feel the body buff should be allowed to enable it to bully and scavenge

It's not expected to kill much anyway, it was never built to be a hunter

[neon portal]

1v1 maybe but carnos are almost never alone i mostly see them in groups of 3-4 if not MORE and a single teno has no chance and finding tenos to group with is hard as hell

[dusky surge]

I use water/forests in those situations

Carno is terrible in those environments

[brisk laurel]

Although as a raptor I don't like that cause it's not as punishing for carno.. I do think that would actually be a good balance change to carno. Less punishing on the stamina drain but also makes it so they don't just perma charge you if they have the stam for it. Makes sense

[jovial vessel]

i do need to try teno out again but the servers I play on are littered with cera megapacks and mixing carnos

[dusky surge]

Wait for the vomitlock hotfix

I imagine teno might end up being a good cerato moderator with this change

In the stress test, I successfully killed a cera and scared off his friend

As a tenonto

Teno is no joke if it has the environmental advantage (it is absolutely NUTS in shallow water, heads up)

I wish we had shallows honestly because of how well teno performs in it

[jovial vessel]

yeah but then theres crocs

and then what lol

[dusky surge]

I hope to GOD Gateway has proper shallows

[jovial vessel]

crocs can grab anything and oop, game over

[dusky surge]

Sucho needs a place to wade and I frankly just want more aquatic diversity

[jovial vessel]

tail slam to a crocs head should make them drop what they are holding

[brisk laurel]

I just want cera bleed resistance gone man. So that raptors actually have a chance of killing these a**holes.

Cause literally no one is killing ceras man, or at least not enough to deter them from playing like unstoppable arses

[dusky surge]

Bleed resist should stay

Cera should perform well against raptors

[south sandal]

T. rex gonna murk ceras

Hopefully

[neon portal]

croc overpopulation is driving me nuts can't find anything to fight? opp its those 40 crocs sitting at centre hoarding bodies and dropping everyones frames

[jovial vessel]

lol when trex comes out noone will Play cera

just like in legacy there will only be apexes

[south sandal]

You right about that lol

[dusky surge]

Ceras probably will just... Leave

Honestly, without the alt-bite being broken, troodons also can perform extremely well against ceras

[jovial vessel]

if the regular player knew how troodon worked

[south sandal]

Yes this annoys me it would be 7 deinos together , then come on land to hunt

[brisk laurel]

Dude, it makes sense that deinos have bleed resistance cause of their ACTUAL body armor and skin. Why should cera have bleed resistance? It's skin is not bulky, thick nor chunky like deino. Make it make sense man

[south sandal]

Like eat each other

[dusky surge]

Because it has loose-fitting skin similar to the honey badger, which it is constantly compared to. Also, it fits well with its niche as an animal that bullies carnivores away from their food. Without that bleed resist, it's barely a threat to the actual animals its supposed to be scaring off

[south sandal]

Troodon is so good cause of venom

3 can take adult stego

[dusky surge]

I still am hoping rexes aren't cannibals because I REALLY don't want to see servers of nothing but rexes

I feel like they will be, in which case, easy sustain city, but hopefully they aren't

Carno cannibalism showed us how easy it makes them

[jovial vessel]

idk why they feel the need to be working on rexes rn anyway but go off devs

[brisk laurel]

Putting in another powerful dino to ward of another current powerful dino doesn't fix the problems the OTHER dinos are facing with trying to fight an OP dino

[keen plover]

and cera rn

[dusky surge]

Cera is slightly more forgivable because it has to eat more food and is generally a scavenger-style animal

Carno was egrigious as a cannibal

[jovial vessel]

ceratos hunger drain is their only drawback

[south sandal]

Not really

If you can just take any food you want

[brisk laurel]

I don't get why ceras can also eat nonstop?

They should make ceras get sick as well when they overeat

That also solves that asshole problem of camping food that they don't need

[dusky surge]

I still adore the complete juxtaposition of what people thought cannibalism would do (moderate populations) and what it actually did (assisted in making said animal absolutely DOMINATE servers)

[jovial vessel]

they should also only get bacteria from rotten bodies or bones

[neon portal]

I don't mind a little bleed resistance but the current level is nuts a large pack of raptors SHOULD be a threat not well this fight will take 30 minutes cause it will never bleed out lets just leave it i dont care how its skin is

[dusky surge]

I truly hope the devs learned from carnopocalypse and aren't thinking of apex cannibalism being the norm

[brisk laurel]

See this would be an easy hotfix for devs to do, it's not writing new code, it's implementing code that already exists for the balancing of cera

[neon portal]

even if they dont throw up from overeating it should just... stop them from eating

[keen plover]

I think it's fine if Carno's could also just scare off Cera's. Rather than Cera's looking to run one down.

So Carno > Cera > Omni

[dusky surge]

Hell, Dondi's war against Deino's ease-of-growth surely has exposed some flaws in how cannibalism permits overpopulation

[jovial vessel]

also the devs need to fix the ceras being able to BITE omnis that are latched on it

[dusky surge]

They're doing that now

[jovial vessel]

good bc its stupid

[dusky surge]

It was confirmed that the next hotfix has that fixed

Along with vomitlock

[jovial vessel]

shoulda been fixed in stresstest lmao

[neon portal]

I'm honestly surprised some of these made it in from stress... especially vomit lock

[dusky surge]

Vomitlock is surprising considering it was the number one balance concern amongst stress testers at the time