balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

besides it's VERY good at smelling blood

i mean, the way it's presented, it can quite literally smell a bleeding animal and find it in the dense forest

bloodhound doesn't mean specifically it's good at smelling blood, ironically

rex is presented to be good at generally tracking

[karmic lynx]

No. You puke instantly after x amount of bites

[dusky surge]

you puke instantly once your stomach is full of bacteria

[karmic lynx]

Indeed

With. %age you would have a chance of fighting back for a few min before puking once and than having the %age reset

Giving cera maybe 2 free bites not a free kill

[hollow canyon]

aside from it being almost literally a bloodhound

[scarlet onyx]

Am I crazy or is troodon night visions just not that good? For a nocturnal dino I was expecting to see really far. But it seems the same range as adult carno nv?

[flint jacinth]

I pounced a stego, landed the pounce successfully, the stego then swung its tail AFTER I landed the pounce, and then I died…. SMH

[tall bronze]

The average NV range is way too good for some reason. Even Carno which was shown to have poor NV has really good NV, so Troodon and Dryo NV is just.....meh compared to them.

[scarlet onyx]

Yeah I thought I was nuts but I think carno's really is the best hahaha

[livid spindle]

Nv is far away, but troodon is too short to see far by itself.

[blissful bloom]

you can eat a certain diet to increase your sense and NV: google evrimacalculator.com and you can see some of the buffs

[neat forge]

@opal linden what u said makes 0 sense
With that Logic it's like

Yeah Rex has Omni on its diet so Omni should have Rex too

[hollow canyon]

no, Carno should be hunting it too because Cerato is just the right size to also be on its menu.

[cosmic pelican]

Or you can just eat the organs? 2 organs can almost fill a carno

[hollow canyon]

So? It should still hunt Cerato which should be on its diet

if you go by this ridiculous logic Cerato should have nothing on its diets and get everything from corpse-remains.

as it is meant to actually be a scavenger

[cosmic pelican]

Which it already does.

[cosmic pelican]

Cerato not being on carnos diet does not mean it wont hunt it, organs still give a lot of food and nutrients

[hollow canyon]

not as much as the whole animal, there's 0 reason why Cerato shouldn't be on Carno's diet

Carno being on Carno's diet is a no-no now, it should've absolutely been replaced by Cerato

instead of just getting deleted

[dusky surge]

i would be against cera being on carno's diet, but apparently it's on OMNI'S diet so clearly anything is game

like this is the most baffling decision. Both Troodon and Carno have an easier time with ceras, yet it's omni that eats them

[hollow canyon]

why though? Cerato is LITERALLY what Carno would want to hunt, just like Tenonto, just like Utah, or any other animal in that size range

[dusky surge]

omnis struggle so goddamn hard against ceras

[hollow canyon]

isn't that because of that weird bug that lets you attack things that are latched onto you?

[dusky surge]

i personally believe people shouldn't be getting all their nutrients back after squaring up with a cera within a few seconds

[hollow canyon]

you're not getting all your nutrients back up though

[dusky surge]

no because cerato has agility and the bleed resist of a God

[hollow canyon]

you're only getting the one that Cerato gives and however much you get from organs for the others

[dusky surge]

got into a fight with an omni pack earlier, my bleed and health was barely impacted, yet they outnumbered us greatly and the fight took a good while

[hollow canyon]

I mean last I've heard of an Omni pouncing it it died because Cerato just charge bit in front of itself and Omni died

[dusky surge]

oh yea, that too

there's a fun new thing where now, instead of being punished for missing a pounce, you're now punished for landing one

[hollow canyon]

that literally makes Omni incapable of killing anything that has that bug

which I've heard of it being a thing on Cerato and Stego, idk if it's universal

[dusky surge]

its also on teno if you pounce near its ass

[hollow canyon]

also regarding this - no, I disagree, Cerato has so much ridiculous mechanics thrown at it at once that you shouldn't be that heavily punished after you'd killed an animal with a:

• no cost most powerful attack in the game barring Stego and Deino,
• ridiculously powerful damage reduction near bodies - which is where it should be trying to take fights
• absurd vomit lock it has going for itself

[dusky surge]

vomitlock is absurd and frustrating

i'd say vomitlock is by far the most egrigious

[hollow canyon]

it was already sufficiently powerful before it even had that damage resistance as per what every stress tester I spoke with said at that time and THEN it had its damage resist added to that and charged bite damage buffed

this thing doesn't need to be anymore punishing to fight than it already is

its body should absolutely already give nutrients

Cerato isn't a plague just because its new

it's a plague because it's overpowered

it's as simple as that

if Cerato stays like this there's hardly any reason to play much of anything else

[manic owl]

but like, I think omni should have everything on it's diet because it wants to hunt all the babies

[dusky surge]

i'd def not say cerato is MEGA OP, at least when compared to absolute monsters like U6 pachy

[dusky surge]

by that logic, carno should have everything on its diet because carno kills smaller things (like juvis of all species)

[manic owl]

yes

[dusky surge]

then why have the diets?

[manic owl]

because not everything would have it?

dieno doeosn't need it, cera doesn't need it

just specialized "small thing" hunters

[dusky surge]

but nothing needs it

because everything can hunt juvis

[manic owl]

they can but putting them on diets gives incentive

[dusky surge]

(i mean, i personally believe species diets are bad)

[manic owl]

that's fair

[hollow canyon]

because each species gives a different nutrient, you don't want to hunt those nutrients you already have, isn't that obvious?(Although I don't think any animal should have everything on its diet, Carno shouldn't be hunting anything larger than itself and it shouldn't be hunting anything smaller than Dryo or even Dryo itself)

Carno should be hunting everything between Dryo and itself in terms of size barring maybe the likes of Kentro and Diablo as it has no business even getting close to them.

Omni should be hunting things such as Maia, Tenonto, Carno, Pachy, smaller animals such as Herrera, Dryo. But no Beipi, Minmi, Kentro or Cerato.

[dusky surge]

beipi i'd be fine with omni hunting

[neat forge]

If it can eat it it doesn't mean it should be on the Diet

Diet is just the preferred food to encourage to Hunt the things the Devs intended

[dusky surge]

thing is with cerato is that it isn't even encouraged to hunt

[neat forge]

No not really Omni is one of the biggest Carno is intended to Hunt

[hollow canyon]

no, no it isn't

[dusky surge]

that seems really limiting

[hollow canyon]

Utah is one of the smallest Carno is intended to hunt

[dusky surge]

honestly carno's stomach should be smaller but that's another bag of worms

[hollow canyon]

smaller things don't give Carno enough food they are too agile and too small

ridiculous statement

[dusky surge]

if carno had smaller stomach, it could subsist on some of the very small and juvi animals

which would be ideal for its playstyle

and make it even further of a polar opposite to cerato

[hollow canyon]

no

it wouldn't be

Carno is trash at hunting small things, it's nowhere near agile enough to do that

[dusky surge]

which is why i'd like it to be better

looking at current garbage carno and balancing around its mess of a design is what got us it in the first place

[hollow canyon]

I ran into Carno packs with both a juvie Omni and a Dryo and lived, they just can't kill animals like that

if it's agile enough to hunt such animals the community will screech its lungs out until it gets nerfed anyways

[dusky surge]

carno being a glass-cannon burst damage animal that obliterates the pseudo-mids while struggling to catch a single small is still one of its glaring problems

[neat forge]

If u think so im not in the mood to TekaDC u ur wrong

[manic owl]

i don't mean if it can eat it, I mean dinos that should be encouraged to hunt juvies specifically. Like carno (if it was playing like a small game pursuit hunter..)

[dusky surge]

which is why you need a map that can actually allow that

[hollow canyon]

I don't think so, I know it

[dusky surge]

current map sucks

it basically is the only thing keeping glass-cannon burst carno alive

[neat forge]

If u think so

[dusky surge]

massive sprawling plains being the only areas of activity, tons of line of sight breaks with bushes and hills, etc

put current carno in an open field wth plentiful water and forests on its ouskirts and now you can actually design the animal around that environment

[hollow canyon]

I don't think so - I know it and I explained how I know it, keep coping though, being wrong does that to people

[dusky surge]

creatures bolt for forests when they see a carno, they shouldn't stay in plains and run circles around it

it's funny, because if omni is the biggest carnivore carno is intended to hunt, it's failed

carno can't hunt omni for the life of it

[hollow canyon]

true but I still find the idea of a 2t theropod hunting Dryos and Hypsis ridiculous

[dusky surge]

cera though, it can hunt

[hollow canyon]

yea

[dusky surge]

cera is basically the ONLY thing it's actually good at hunting

[hollow canyon]

as I said - Omni should be the smallest thing Carno can hunt, I don't think there was an update where Carno could hunt smalls like Dryo well... maybe U2 but I haven't played that match up on either side

[dusky surge]

i think carno should be a threat to dryos, personally

[manic owl]

I thought carno was designed to hunt small things?

[dusky surge]

it is

[manic owl]

liek that that was it's whole niche

carno shouldn't be hunting ceras

[hollow canyon]

it's not, it's really bad at that

Omni is a much better hunter of those very small animals

[manic owl]

i'm not talking about ingame, i mean the way it's supposed to be

[hollow canyon]

it has an instant kill button on them

[dusky surge]

it's SUPPOSED to be designed to hunt smalls, it's just failed spectacularly in how it is now

[hollow canyon]

when it says small - it means small overall not the tiniest animals on the roster - Omni is small, tenonto is small, Cerato is small

Carno is bigger than all of them

[hollow canyon]

it's always hunted smalls relatively well, not the microscopic things though

[manic owl]

buut how much bigger, it's not that much bigger than cerato is it. and carno doesn't really look built for going head to head with a beefcake like cerato

[hollow canyon]

half a tonne bigger than Cerato in the game

[dusky surge]

i personally think carno shouldn't be so good at hunting ceras

[hollow canyon]

Cerato isn't a beefcake either

[manic owl]

like cheetah vs lion

[dusky surge]

ehhh

[hollow canyon]

Cerato ain't a lion, Carno aint a cheetah

[dusky surge]

i hate the carno/cheetah comparison

because carno is literally as far as you can get from a cheetah, the only resemblance is "fast"

[manic owl]

i mean, I'm just going by what I think i remember hearing lol so i';m probably off

[hollow canyon]

the size difference between the two is like that between a lion(Carno) and a jaguar(Cerato)

[dusky surge]

it's quite literally a carnivorous bull

[hollow canyon]

yea, people say nonsense

[dusky surge]

carnotaurus

[hollow canyon]

Carno is the bulkier one of the two

[manic owl]

oh fr

[hollow canyon]

yea

give me a sec, I will show you how those animals compare

[dusky surge]

carno is 500kg larger

if you wanted a lion comparison, use allo

[hollow canyon]

Ceratosaurus

Carnotaurus

Carno is as bulky if not more bulky than Allosaurus

it's just smaller

[dusky surge]

cerato is still oversized in The Isle, although not as obnoxiously as in Legacy

[hollow canyon]

it's not, it's the size of BYUVP 12893

a new specimen that isn't described

a skull and a bunch of vertebrae

they do come out at about the size of in game Ceratosaurus

by eyeballing them

that's the biggest Ceratosaurus we have

if anything it's Carnotaurus that's sort of downsized and made more gracile than it was

it'd still be heavier than what it is in game even with its current ig model

[dusky surge]

like tbh, i really am looking for a buff to stamina/trotspeed/turn and a nerf to the charge damage with carno

[hollow canyon]

I've waited for that last update along with the charge hitbox nerfed but I got disappointed

[dusky surge]

i'm personally really into the idea of carno charge not being a stamina thing, but similar to dryo's charge/cooldown thing. You have 2, using it increases your speed and makes you do damage and knockdowns for the duration (around 2-3 seconds) and has like, a 1 minute cooldown. This removes the spammability of the move, increases it's utility in both combat and general mobility and overall allows carno to pursue prey in its preferred hunting grounds

[hollow canyon]

tbh that does sound like a good idea

[dusky surge]

thanks i made it myself

[opal linden]

lol Cera is same size as carno and carno can 1v2 ceras, not to mention everyones playing cera instead of carno. It honestly just makes sense to me, a carno can fend off ceras but its quite annoying when the ceras make it vomit all its diet and it can't even get it back.

[keen plover]

Cera is tiny compared to Carno

[thin mantle]

And if the ceras just…dodge charge

They win via stam

Cuz if the Carno ever tries to disengage they can easily follow

[keen plover]

2 ceras should win. 1 v 1 though, Carno can just keep chipping away at your health by biting

Stam decay build. Disengage before they have enough bites.

[keen plover]

Good idea tbf.

Also no, every creature bar stego and deino is potential Carno food. Carno isn’t just an Omni hunter

[opal linden]

eh looks same to me lol, if the ceras were smart they'd win a 1v2

[hollow canyon]

this is how they compare

[opal linden]

eh still looks not too far off, lol

[hollow canyon]

that is very far off lol

[opal linden]

carno just got some big legs

XD maybe

[hollow canyon]

no, it's not just that, Carno is also wider as far as I can see

[opal linden]

looked just a little smaller to me on screen

[hollow canyon]

and those legs also add a lot of mass

yea I checked it it's a bit wider although Cerato is definitely wider than it should be in TI

[opal linden]

big legs and carno's stam is that bad wow

[lost cave]

Big legs do not equal stamina. Look at most marathon runners
By your logic Eddie hall should beat Usain bolt in a 100m dash

[barren pivot]

diablo solos all three

[dusky surge]

i hope so since it's slower than all three

[slim dragon]

Diablo will have a 56 km/h trot

[dusky surge]

i'm curious to see how diablo will fare

considering its probably smaller and slower than teno

[slim dragon]

Idk he was pretty easy to beat in Diablo 3

[dusky surge]

i stopped playing like midway through

whole game was easy as

[barren pivot]

it'll make cera look like a wet noodle made of paper 😎

[keen plover]

Vomit locked

[dusky surge]

idk man

[barren pivot]

NONONONONONONONONOONON

[dusky surge]

cera's weak specifically to high damage output where it can't fight back

[slim dragon]

Since people tend to love facetanking I think diablo will be okay

[dusky surge]

bleed it walks off, and diablo looks like it'll be a decent bleeder

true, diablo will probably be able to keep cera to its front, but the question is, will cerato be rewarded for facetanking with the vomitlock covering for it

[barren pivot]

that would suck

vomitlock is cringe

[dusky surge]

it is

the entire sceptic bite needs a rework imho

[slim dragon]

Maybe vomitlocking will no longer exist by the time diablo comes...
Because with such a mechanic enough cerato could stunlock a rex to death with no possible counterplay

[slim dragon]

OR there needs to be a minimum delay between successive vomits...

[dusky surge]

the only relief is the fact that it will eventually run out of bacteria

[dusky surge]

but then you punish the cera by making it waste an actual resource

[slim dragon]

Applying more bacteria makes the debuff last longer ?

[dusky surge]

i'd just want bacterial bite to be more of a "actively not worth fighting cerato" over "this is how cerato stunlocks you to death"

[barren pivot]

what if it made the vomit debuff extra strong, but you can't trigger it again until they're healed from it?

[dusky surge]

so basically, my idea was

apply bacteria until it fills target stomach
target pukes
target now has a debuff that causes them to puke repeatedly over time
successive bites will not fill up the stomach and make them puke again, but rather increase the amount of locked stam, food and water, as well as a minor stam drain

[barren pivot]

so it's like even worse than vomiting normally, but you can't get vomitlocked anymore

[slim dragon]

This sounds like a weird fix

[dusky surge]

this makes it that the "smelling vomit" mechanic cera has actually has some kind of utility

[opal linden]

lol it was a joke

[barren pivot]

how so? it keeps the septic bite as a thing that makes it not worth fighting cera over, as intended, but it prevents vomitlocking

[slim dragon]

What is "extra strong" and what does "trigerring it again" means ?
Is it like you can't apply any more bacteria ? Or people become immune to vomiting ?

[barren pivot]

you know how vomiting decreases your maximum stam/hunger/thirst? the debuff applied by cera would do that, but more than the normal amount it would be decreased by normal sources of vomiting (ie food poisoning, overeating), and you wouldn't be able to be afflicted by the debuff again until you've healed from it the first time

but mega's idea is much more thought out than mine, I just came up with that in like two seconds lol

[wraith relic]

I change my mind now that I know gallis one shot troodons

[obtuse ocean]

Didnt diablo destroy cera back in legacy? I mean diablo could go up vs a allo

[dusky surge]

im not using legacy values here lol

because diablo in EVRIMA will be not absurdly oversized like it was in legacy

it will more than likely end up at a lower weight than a carno

[obtuse ocean]

Yea,but i asked kissen about it a few days ago.

Stronger for sure. Has way more attacks. lol ( she replies this )

[dusky surge]

that doesn't mean bigger

[obtuse ocean]

No not bigger,but she said stronger somewhat

Im not sure what she means,but dibble was though in legacy sorta : P

[dusky surge]

idk, dibble could be an entirely different animal. I honestly heavily doubt it being an allo-killer personally, since I predict allo will be like over double its size

[obtuse ocean]

Yea sorta same,allo is big

#isle-discussion message

But its prob gonn be somewhat strong i guess

[slim dragon]

That's honestly not very indicative
Every dino in evrima is stronger than their legacy counterpart

[obtuse ocean]

Yea,but so? If cera is twice as strong and so is dibble from legacy counterpart. Cera will still take a beating

[thin mantle]

Cera taking a beating from dibble is like

So more than fine

What is dibble even supposed to do if it doesn’t batter Cera quite a bit

Or are we gonna have another case of an obligate defensive animal running for its life from Cerato just cuz

[hollow canyon]

ofc, ez

[gleaming junco]

cera is balanced its just a skill issue really if you cant kill it as a teno or carno just make sure you have high food and know how to avoid its charge

[hollow canyon]

I think you're coping

[thin mantle]

Lmao

Teno barely even has the stam to kill one in chuff

Ideally you’re not fighting a chuffing Cera but Cera can literally carry an Omni body with it, drop it, then instantly get that 50% DR

It’s disgustingly effective

And all you need to do to kill any teno is to proc vomit once, it’s over after that

Much higher average dps, no stam consumed, higher effective HP, and higher base stam than teno as well

If it tries to run out of the chuffs range

Pick up the body and follow it, it’ll run out of stam eventually then it just dies

If it has sub 50% stam it auto loses anyway

You can just facetank

It’s a funny matchup

Like Cerato can deadass tank 7-8 headshot kicks in chuff

That’s hilarious

[cosmic pelican]

And we thought the days of the op ceratorex were over

[unborn iris]

Just needs some tweakin.

[thin mantle]

It’s really easily fixable

Just needs WAY more reasons to not pursue

And be poorly facilitated in doing so

Like it’s power level isn’t really an issue, it’s just that it’s also the best hunter in the game

Bar maybe Omni, but Omni is currently it’s own can of worms

Oh and vomitlock

That as a concept just needs to be completely removed

It’s just worse Pachy stun

Vomit sickness isn’t intrinsically problematic, it’s just lacking significant limits, and gets exponentially more potent the more it’s used

Like it’s should absolutely be one of the abilities that suffers from diminishing returns

Currently it’s the direct opposite

[cosmic pelican]

I would say nerf its stam by 10-15% or make holding charged bite while running cost a bit of stam.
Also maybe make its bile work like the sickness you get from bones, minus the dehydration part

[thin mantle]

I’d just make it so vomit sickness can only trigger once per target until it recovers from it, it’s a borderline dietary deletion, there are loads of debuffs that come with that on top of the raw stat loss.

Prevents it from being a stun tool

Which it never should have or was really intended to be

And yeah it’s stam is high but I don’t think it’s stam is in need of a nerf, definitely a relative nerf but this is also touching on how short global stam pools are

Like I’d basically universally buff sprinting stam pools by quite a bit, minus Cera

And maybe bring it’s speed down to 39 so it can’t as easily chase animals in its own tier outside of the initial advance

Just to tip it over that speed breakpoint a bit more

Would you mind describing why I’m wrong instead of voting on my messages?

[halcyon elk]

You have a point

[thin mantle]

Apparently not one worth using words to disagree with

[halcyon elk]

Whoever that was they're a troll

[thin mantle]

Oh surely I just find em interesting anyway

[fallen oyster]

Teno needs a buff.
not a crazy one, something to the stam and that's it

also Omni's are broken, you can full bite them wail in grapple now and the rotton icon for them is broken and sometimes it displays food as rotten when it's not

also haveing issues with the pounce animation playing on a dinosuar and then stoping and pulling you out of the pounce

lots of people are also talking about how it takes 5 and up omni's to kill a Cera, personaly i do not main them but that's what people around me are saying

[fallen oyster]

i agree, or give it a half way and let it be a 1 time pass for vomit sickness so it keeps it's potancy but it's not overkill

you can also change the sevarity depending on the amount of bio you have insted of just adding more to it

[dawn falcon]

Honestly man

I think EVERYTHING needs a stamina pool buff, purely because of how big gateway is going to be. You’ll need that stamina to go place to place (just incase)

And plus, on the bright side, buffing stamina pools heavily means combat won’t be based on who loses stamina first anymore. And instead it would be whos skilled enough to kill the other person

[fallen oyster]

really buffing them would help HOWEVER i will say some carnivors being able to out stam dose make sence in terms of hunting style but it shoulden't be rediculous of course

[dawn falcon]

Plus it also buffs solo players, because you’ll actually have the stamina to escape

Since you’ll be alone and aren’t as competent as someone in a group

[fallen oyster]

like haveing a 20-15% stat over them within that range would make sence for me, and people need to remember to run away and not try to just sit thare and out manuver and either fight or run

[fallen oyster]

im a solo player and your preaching to the quior

[thin mantle]

That’s one of the primary drives behind why I want more mobility stam…
Like sure it makes sense for powerful abilities to have those kinds of harder limits, but when it comes to movement I’d vastly prefer it just come down to who’s better than who, best part is that it doesn’t effect baiting as a strategy.

[dawn falcon]

Walking

• Animations replaced by current trotting speeds/animations.
• Bump in stamina regeneration.
• • This movement state would essentially be used as a regeneration or combat stance.

Trotting

• New animation + bump in movement speed.
• However, worse turning, agility, and stamina regeneration.
• • This is the opposite for the walking movement. Instead of being slow and relying on sprinting to move around, trotting would be mostly used for traversing the map. It would be poor to use for combat.

Sprinting

• Same values, except stamina drain. It would be 1/3rd of current stamina drain.
• Stamina drain would increase the longer you utilize sprinting, so it’d be a fight or flight movement. Not good for traversing the map.

Credit goes to Wyatt for the idea

[alpine plover]

The stun allows pachy to fight them

Question - Why do so many people want pachy stun back?

I seriously can't imagine ANY case where it needs to stun bigger animals.

It's faster then cera, and can juke carno. And can fracture carno and escape easily.

And it can already make omni fall.

So why do people think it needs stuns? When the only thing stuns allow it to do is fight bigger animals

[vital gulch]

The stun is need it because the Cera can follow you until you ran out of stamina if you turn to Fracture them they will bite your face and if u are low food they will kill you in a vomit stun lock you clearly do not play pachy at all .. I said give pachy stun on fracture only once the dino is fracture no more stun that way you have a chance to escape the ambush.

[dawn falcon]

Or just increase Pachys run time

[thin mantle]

Yeah the first option is busting balance

The latter is making Pachy run longer

I feel like the answer is clear

[dusky surge]

pachy deserves the stam regardless

i suppose one could argue it can "stam down omni" but in the time spent running, I'm sure the omni could break line of sight

[thin mantle]

Oh easily

The comparison isn't even close between pachy and omni

The difference in speed between cera and teno is WAY smaller than that between pachy and omni

Also....its still less threatening than another omni just running you down anyway

[dusky surge]

lmao true, and if we get omni's planned "scramble up tree thing", both carno and pachy can afford to be better at killing them, since omni can just go up

[thin mantle]

Mhm

Options provide more balancing metrics to work around

Which provide more leniency in making some animals incredibly disproportionatly strong in certain areas or contexts

And as long as players can fullful needs while avoiding those circumstances we're good

[dusky surge]

i personally am all for pachy bullying every small animal there is

[thin mantle]

Same

[dusky surge]

idc if dilos and omnis seethe that this is a god amongst their size tier

[thin mantle]

Move in the other direction or bring friends

Ideally the animals that must be constantly predated for food wouldn't be pushovers

Especially when they're on the slower side

[dusky surge]

yea

i dont see any small animal more deserving of being the true bully than pachy

[thin mantle]

Would probably be good at that too if it could alt while running but

Yknow

[dusky surge]

make it galli-esque. Running headswing that takes stam

i stand by galli being the better carno than carno

[thin mantle]

It literally just is xD

[alpine plover]

fracture then run, easy.

use terrain

[dusky surge]

well actually

cera has fracture resist

so its not even that simple

[alpine plover]

oh

why did they give it that?

[dusky surge]

you need like a good 2 charged rams to fracture it

[alpine plover]

that’s dumb, is there a reason?

[dusky surge]

it's supposed to be a tank thing

so it has a metric ton of resistances

[alpine plover]

But the only thing that can do fractures in game right now is pachy, and if pachy gets ran down by cera because it’s either that or dying trying to fracture isn’t thag a bit unfair

[slim dragon]

Cera... has fracture resistance ? What in the ninth hell ?

[dusky surge]

Yea I'm pretty sure

try fracturing a cera

[keen plover]

Takes 2 hits to the body and head

1 hit to the leg though

[orchid patrol]

Ye, that’s why i argue the devs should bring back the stun

[cosmic pelican]

But then we would be back at U6 pachy...

[lost cave]

So, I need to know if I'm just a shitter or if the balance is out of whack, because I am too inexperienced to know the difference

A sub adult stego nearly 1 shot my full adult cerato (took 80% of my HP) last night and out one nasty bleed on me. I thought I was outside the range of his tail, since I attacked him just in front of his foreleg (like 10-11 o clock) but no dice.

I was later killed by a Gali and tenonto double team. I half expected to die there since I had not healed (was about 35%) though the tenonto did kill me surprisingly fast.

So is this just me being bad? Is stego OP? What about teno?

[cosmic pelican]

If the stego got a headshot on you thats a possibility, even fresh spawn stegos do around 50 damage

[lost cave]

I couldn't tell you if he hit my head. I mean maybe since I was biting him and that was the closest part of me

[cosmic pelican]

If they didnt change the damage to weight ratio on stego then that sub was a bit more than 3 tons

Thats way out of ceratos hunting cababilities

[lost cave]

Huh I've learned something I guess. I thought an adult cera could take on anything but an adult deino or stego

[slim dragon]

Deino and stego, even as juvies, are clearly out of cera's league

[lost cave]

Now in regards to the teno and Gali. Again I expected to die, being at less than half hp, but I think the teno hit me like 3 times (with a crazy 180 tail slam)
I'm not sure how to gauge combat, but I'm confident I bit him at least twice (1 being a charge bite)
Not sure how to deal with herbivores that can hit you with their tails when you are in front of them. Is it just luck?

[slim dragon]

I'd need to see it happen but if you were hit by a tailslam that lloked like it didn't connect, it was probably desync/lag/hitbox issue

[cosmic pelican]

But galli is a lil bit overtuned rn
At least its bleed is

[lost cave]

I'll see if the game saved the replay. But I was running away from the teno, charged my bite, and whirled around to chomp. Then wham, I'm stunned and the teno sound played. After that I died, idk what he hit me with to kill but it was probably a kick

[dusky surge]

honestly, i'd say galli is in an okay spot, in all honesty

yes, it's bleed is brutal, but it has accel and turn radius weaknesses, as well as the kick costing stam

honestly, it's hardly close to how OP some other animals (cough cough cera) are atm

[cosmic pelican]

Cerato is just... there are no words for it

[dusky surge]

cerato is a problem lol

literally, nerf its stam, since its vomit nerfs yours

[cosmic pelican]

Or just buff every creatures stam pool, but that seems like a band aid fix :/

[lost cave]

I have yet to make a creature puke, despite being at full bile in every fight

Now again, I might just suck at the game, but that's my experience so far

[dusky surge]

its dependent on how full their stomach is

[lost cave]

And the puke lock videos I have seen are all 3v1 in the Cera's favor, which I feel like you should lose if 3 big carnivores are on you

[cosmic pelican]

After the first puke however the target vomits every second bite

[cosmic pelican]

Only 2 ceras are needed for vomitlock

And even if one of them dies the other becomes basically immune to damage

[slim dragon]

The thing is, cera isn't really a big carnivore... it's medium-sized at best

And I think there is no size limit to what ceratos can vomit-lock

[cosmic pelican]

Then buff its weight

[lost cave]

Well it is the biggest land carnivore in Evrima, or at least tied with carno

So I feel like it should, reasonably, threaten other land creatures since it's an "apex" by virtue of being a big fish in a small pond

[slim dragon]

Cera is smaller than carno

[cosmic pelican]

Its smaller than teno as well

And by a lot

[dusky surge]

cera is much smaller than both carno and teno

[slim dragon]

And in no world should a cera threaten something like a stego
Unless there's a hell lot of them

[cosmic pelican]

Cant wait to "outplay" stegos as a cerato megapack

[lost cave]

That means the stego has no land predators, which from a balance standpoint seems wrong

[dusky surge]

it has ceras, omnis and troodons now, but all actually need to try and kill it

[cosmic pelican]

Good omni and troodon packs can very much kill a stego

[slim dragon]

It has omni
Apparenty troodon is quite adept at killing stego too

[dusky surge]

deino also has absolutely zero predators, to a ridiculous degree

[cosmic pelican]

Last update 2v1 was possible with omni (against the average stego player)

[slim dragon]

And what predator does cera have, apart from deino ?

[dusky surge]

carno, if anyone is bold enough to play one

which is unlikely since it's terrible atm

[lost cave]

Wasn't carno a small game hunter? Whereas cera was a corpse bully, like a hyena

[dusky surge]

except carno sucks ass at hunting small game and is exclusively good at hunting cera

[slim dragon]

Carno is a small game hunter who cannot hunt small game
Cera is a corpse bully that can hunt and kill pretty much anything

[dusky surge]

which is testament to how off-the-rails insane this animal's balancing has gotten

cerato can be fixed with like, a stat tweak

(and the removal of that accursed stam diet)

god i hate stam decay diet

they added a cool system then made a meta

[lost cave]

Why is the stam decay diet so powerful?

[dusky surge]

imagine being able to run 15% more than everyone else

and then that's your answer

in a game where stam economy can decide chases and fights

reminder, both teno and cera have the same amount of stam, but teno is 0.1km/hr faster than cera. If cera has the stam decay diet, and teno doesn't, there is no fundamental way a teno can EVER escape a cera

there is never a good reason not to make yourself run 15% more

[lost cave]

From my perspective, getting a specific diet is pretty hard.
It's not really easy to track down the specific nutrients without a degree of luck
I'm not saying that means it isn't strong, but like, every cera isn't likely to have that diet

[dusky surge]

i find it pretty damn easy

coming from someone who has had a cera survive so long i just decided to screw it all and pick a dumb ass fight with a stego and die, and the whole time i had stamdecay

[lost cave]

I typically find hexagons, occasionally a "S" but those are raptors and you need to eat like 7 of them to fill the box

Even on a 100/100 server I'm not running into players non-stop and AI are pretty infrequent imo

[dusky surge]

i ignore AI generally

[cosmic pelican]

Organs are a pretty easy way to get stam decay diet

[dusky surge]

organs and bones are a secret resource

[cosmic pelican]

2 lungs and an intestine is usually enough

[lost cave]

Hmm maybe I'm doing the organs wrong, I usually shake them out and then eat them off the ground. I haven't seen any crazy food or nutrient gains from it. Granted all the corpses I find/things I kill are much smaller than me. It's pretty rare to see sub-adults wandering around (outside of that stego that merked me)

I also can't tell the organs apart worth a damn barring intestines. I can barely see them in the grass let alone say "oh that's a heart I need a lung"

[cosmic pelican]

https://youtu.be/VJx2w2mz4xE this is the full guide to the diet system. Hope it helps!

[crimson echo]

@chilly cargo your suggestion is bad

[chilly cargo]

explain

[manic owl]

ceratos should get more nutrients from rotten meat imo. They're supposed to be bullies, not hunters. And it would actually give them a reason to cleanup when there are a lot of corpses

[tall bronze]

It's just so weird when I play Cerato, find a bunch of rotten food and go "hmm, better avoid that so I don't screw up my diet"

Nutrients feel like such a chore right now

[floral heath]

stego nerf when?

[dusky surge]

hopefully never

doesn't need one

[floral heath]

I was hoping for a serious answer not some cringe schneider

[dusky surge]

this is a serious answer lol, stego doesn't need a nerf, it's already looking like it's going to be absolute trash against animals like rex, and the only reason it performs so well is because not a single animal in the roster is built to kill it. It literally needs buffs when a larger roster gets added

If anyone needs nerfs, it's the deino

[floral heath]

I agree that the stego needs some staying power when the apexes comes but the Deino needs to have a good matchup

[dusky surge]

deino is infinitely more unkillable than the stego, far more lethal and far better at killing

[dusky surge]

it really doesn't, because that's a complete overpowering of the deino. Deino is meant to punch down to creatures less than half its weight

[floral heath]

it's a water tank, it's realistic with the current roster

[dusky surge]

and stego is a massive damage dealer, that breaks through the defenses of the deino

[floral heath]

agreed, unless a creature has a stego head. If said creature features a stego head then it just looks stupid that it won't be killable

[dusky surge]

deino already has the tools to avoid stego easily

if stego was prey to deino, deino would have nothing stopping it from playing landcroc

it'd be even more riskless

[floral heath]

apexes would stop it

since you allready opened the door for pre balancing creatures for future additions I see this as the same thing

[dusky surge]

except nerfing stego still doesn't make equal sense

because you're making it deino food

[floral heath]

Let's say a deino gets a lunge at the head, it should do way more damage than it does now

[dusky surge]

stego should be fighting off deinos, because it is a herbivore beyond the hunting range of the deino

it does literally 1000 damage if it bites the head

[floral heath]

mate, the steg should be more equal to deino and a risk prey IMO, the way it's set up now with a stego comfy 1v2 ing deinos is stupid

[mental roost]

That poor man

[livid spindle]

Because whether a creature weighing 6 tons or a creature weighing 500kg, cera attacks make them vomit the same number of times.

If this is not changed, even rex will end up in the same situation in the future.

[dusky surge]

yep lol

[mental roost]

Wait...so everything but Deino and Cera(because they don't vomit) take the same number of bites to assumedly start vomitting?(stomach percentage?)

I'm actually curious if Wave or someone knows what the mechanics/actual mathematics for the septic bite are, and if it's correlated to amount of bacteria, damage, both, etc

[livid spindle]

Regardless of the size, the number of attacks to make an utah vomit is the same as that to make a stego vomit.

After the first vomiting, all creatures vomit after two attacks.

[mental roost]

Yeah that'll... probably need some looking at, and that's probably also one of several reasons why Cera megapacks can be a nightmare

More bites, more bacteria: more effective stunlocks

[livid spindle]

Adult Stego should not be the target of cera if there is no infinite stop attack caused by vomiting.

The strange thing is that the emptier your stomach is, the easier it is to vomit.

[mental roost]

Adult Stego can't exactly run either... and the stun stops it from fighting back

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcjB2MHJqMWR6cGtiMHF6dGRnMHlxcGRtN2Z4dGs5eWtpd3hpYjg4dCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/RWaLSJHpOR9du/giphy.gif

[mental roost]

Yeah, you'd kind of think that: the fuller you are, the easier it is to vomit, since after vomiting a few times, you're not going to puke up much when on empty--apologies if that doesn't make sense, a tad tired

[livid spindle]

In this video, 4cera kill 2stego

Stego is not a good player, but after a few mistakes, they completely lost the chance to fight back.

[mental roost]

I wonder if having the violent maul grapple would have been the better call now

I kind of feel like Cera and Carno both need some reworks

[livid spindle]

I have a few ideas:

1. Bacteria are injected by attacking with the right mouse button, so that it is not easy to have unlimited control, and you probably don't want to consume bacteria when attacking an easy-to-kill prey.
2. Bacteria increase greatly by eating carrion, while eating fresh meat increases slightly, which makes bacteria more valuable.
3. Let the bacteria take effect a few seconds after injection, not immediately.
   The above opinions are not simultaneous, and any one of them may improve the status quo.

[pseudo spruce]

Ceras are insanely OVERPOWERED

Me and my mate 2v1 a almost FG deino

[dusky surge]

i mean, on one hand, ceras are OP, on the other, that's gotta be a REAL bad deino

[pseudo spruce]

We did catch him on land^ but only took us under 5 minutes

[thin mantle]

tbf if you're near or otherwise had a "battle buddy" corpse being carried around (since an omni gives full damage res and can be carried), a deino headshot would only deal 375...a cera can tank 4 headshots till it dies...less with alt but I think only by 1...
If you baited most if not all alts out prior to just...tailriding the deino, you'd be more than capable of tanking the hits when the deino recovers stam enough to attack again

Like ceratos are probably the most competent deino hunters on land bar stego

[dusky surge]

Because of course they are lol

[thin mantle]

Isn't that what everyone wanted? The next best predator in the roster?

[dusky surge]

and by god they got it

[obtuse ocean]

What a skillfull fight, reminds me of pot

[dusky surge]

lmao i love this dude who just puts an x on any critique of cerato lmao

nvm he's EXCLUSIVELY putting xs on me

I'm glad to know someone is this fixated on me to personally go out and react uniquely to each of my messages

[obtuse ocean]

You should say something good about cera, he prob gonna x that to. Doubt he actuually reads your points

[hollow canyon]

@lyric anchor because Cerato's bite isn't as strong as Carno's, Carno bit harder(significantly harder) in reality too

they were being generous either way, irl Carno bites 50% harder than Cerato

[vital gulch]

Check this out i try to fracture a Cera as a Pachy and after i hit it i get 2 bites and after that running from him 3 more i went from 100%HP to 20% only to get a fracture... Balance

[hollow canyon]

I think the intended strategy for Pachy against Cerato is running for its life though

not that Cerato isn't broken

[vital gulch]

Fix Cera hit box is stuped you are running or unpouncing from him and he hit you a mile away from you fix this HIT BOX PLZ

[dusky surge]

i really dont understand your need to vent every complaint you have in every available channel

[grizzled pagoda]

@jovial vessel If you run into trees, pounced dinosaurs will be pushed

[jovial vessel]

If you are pinned, you cannot move 😂

[inland oracle]

stegos are a different kind of strong

[hallow spire]

@olive aspen slightly agree. it should get even a little bit of nutrients but it shouldn’t be the only source of the bacterial bite in my opinion

[olive aspen]

I mean by it that cera shouldnt fill whole bacteria from fresh body.

[hallow spire]

So it should get some or none at all?

[olive aspen]

It should depend on how fresh body is, but for sure not from fresh kill.

[hallow spire]

If it does get a kill and it wants the bacteria it would have to wait for it to rot and possibly getting its kill stolen during that time and I’ve rarely come across any rotten corpses so far since it just gets eaten before it rots

[distant torrent]

cera is supposed to be a scavenger, not a hunter

if a scavenger can successfully hunt a healthy adult dino down, then there’s a problem. I’m looking at ceras vs. stego, teno, or carno

[hallow spire]

Got it👍🏾

[fallow blaze]

Well the isle is a game with its own set of rules. If we look at nature, we will find that all scavengers (except vultures) also prefer live prey. So, they hunt in their own way.
Whether using a septic bite as a weapon or something else.

Let's look at pure base damage (skill is ignored)
Then the Cerato loses to the Teno.
the same with the Charge as a weapon from the Carno, should it hit. with the attacks that followed.

The Cerato is the best midtier dinosaur. But compared to the selection (Stego, Teno, Carno<- they are no easy prey) it's not OP.

[rigid tulip]

Is it just me or is baby omniraptor slower now?

[vital gulch]

We need a better tracking system just like the old one with yellow food print.

[hallow spire]

Agreed I think it should be different than both systems tho

[dusky surge]

@mighty haven the bacterial bite should deplete nutrients, its meant to dissuade you from facing it, but i agree with a lot of what you've said

also i do think it should have the bleed res

because it's meant to face off against carnivores like omni and steal their corpses

if it's as vulnerable to bleed as everything else, how can it do that?

[mighty haven]

I just feel that it already does enough with capping ur food,stam and water, taking your nutrients is just a screw you especially considering how bad the effects of no nutrients are

[dusky surge]

yea, that's the idea

it's supposed to be a "don't face cera" thing

which is good, but on top of how good it is at hunting, is a problem

[mighty haven]

it should have weaknesses having bleed resist is just more blot on top of it already strong kit, it should see 5 omnis on a kill a think easy meal, its gotta be reasonable

maybe a higher blood pool

but not bleed resist

[dusky surge]

literally the same thing in different writing

a higher blood pool is effectively bleed resist

[mighty haven]

no

[dusky surge]

yes

[mighty haven]

bleed resist like deino means he starts healing blood much faster (ive tested it)

[dusky surge]

no, that's not how it works

(i've been QA)

[mighty haven]

k you got time? to get in game

[dusky surge]

bleed healing is dependent on food, water, stamina and health

[mighty haven]

dont care test it in live and youll see

[dusky surge]

but it heals the same

bleed resist reduces the amount of bleed damage you take

but bleed resist has nothing to do with healing speed

deino has a few bleed modifiers since it can't wallow, like i believe it specifically heals bleed faster

[mighty haven]

if this is true

[mighty haven]

this is what i noticed, when testing cera

[dusky surge]

cera bleeds just as long as everything else in my experience

[mighty haven]

he would run around like a maniac and not bleed much and on top of that stop bleeding relatively fast

[dusky surge]

he doesn't stop bleed that fast

[mighty haven]

again test it in live

[dusky surge]

literally what i did

[mighty haven]

same

[dusky surge]

i'm a stress tester also

i did nothing but combat tests

[mighty haven]

same thing since the update drop

[dusky surge]

cera didn't heal bleed any faster than other animals

also i still believe cera should have a bleed res

[mighty haven]

stop saying "im a stress tester" position waving means nohting to me

especially with how much changes between stress test and live

[dusky surge]

i don't care about the position, i care about the relevance of the experience

[mighty haven]

welp agree to disagree

[dusky surge]

why would you want cera to just suck at actually corpse bullying

bleed resist grants it the ability to fight back against omnis and steal their food

without it, it's just not allowed to engage them

if anything needs nerfing, it's the stamina and the ability to vomitlock

[mighty haven]

ima have to make a spreadsheet on bleed at this point

let me ask you this

how many omnis should a single cera feel confident bullying off a body?

[dusky surge]

a lot, idk, omnis should just avoid it

it's already absurd how easy they have it against carno

[mighty haven]

cmon give me a number

[mighty haven]

thats because of the bs pounce having no stagger

[dusky surge]

no

they already had it easy before the pounce having no stagger

the only reason carno's weren't dropping like flies in U6 was that ridiculous hitbox

[mighty haven]

depending on the number you could admit its a bit too much or you are just completly delulu

and think 1 ceras should bully 6 omnis

[mighty haven]

whatt

good carno vs good raptors, was in raptors favor

[dusky surge]

carno's been trash against them for a while now

only being carried with some dumb bugs in U6

U5.5, it was trash against omni

[mighty haven]

but its no way comparable to how it is now, they literally can get off scot free from missing their ability

[mighty haven]

nah

the stagger was long enough that a carno next to a tree or rock

was basically unkillable or god forbid he was in a mud pool

[alpine plover]

Carno still has no competition in current roster

Cerato is pathetic

[dusky surge]

what?

cerato is insane atm lol

and carno is pathetic

[alpine plover]

no its not lol

[dusky surge]

carno dies to gallis, omnis, ceras, tenos, pachies

if you, as an omni/galli are dying to a carno, that's a skill issue lol

this animal is terrible

[alpine plover]

Dude, A CERATO WEIGHS less than a CARNO

[dusky surge]

yes

[alpine plover]

thats sad

[dusky surge]

that's good

[alpine plover]

no its not

[dusky surge]

it shouldn't weigh more, cerato weighed less irl and it has more than enough tools to compensate in-game

cerato was grossly oversized in legacy

[alpine plover]

I knew this was going to be a waste of breathe

smh

I'm not looking anymore, as of now. talking to yourself.

[dusky surge]

damage resist near corpses, fracture resist, bleed resist, insane stamina, swim speed, great damage, great bleed damage, sceptic bite that can stop the opponent from attacking, what more does cera need?

if cera is bigger than carno, cera will have no competition, and to quote you "Carno still has no competition in current roster"

[white crest]

Wile training 2 of us omnis were enough to bring a cera to its knees with damage and it had body buff, it was another dead cera I think

[white crest]

I do think they should remove the no pounce recovery thing, but carno is an ambush predator(🤓) they aren’t meant for prolonged fights, and omnis benefit from extended fights, that isn’t exactly a fair fight, but carnos can spam alt bite, not justifying some of the balancing for carno or omni, but just saying, it’s not exactly a matchup made in heaven for carno

[dusky surge]

carno is a terrible ambush predator and i hope one day they actually design it so it isn't ambush-reliant

it should be pursuit-focused

[white crest]

I believe skill should also be a huge factor, a good carno should wreck a pack of unprepared omnis

[dusky surge]

a tall, loud, specialised plains animal that only works in the open plains forced to use a hunting style that necessitates cover and stealth

terrible designed animal

[white crest]

I do like the ambush-cheetah style carno to be honest, I just think it’s acceleration should be buffed back to what it was

[dusky surge]

i really don't

[white crest]

But that should be determined by diet right?

Hear me out for a sec,

[dusky surge]

ambush cheetah style is completely antithesis to an actual carno

cheetahs have so many advantages that carno don't, and carno/cheetahs are so unlike each other it's silly to compare them

i actually like the new acceleration

[white crest]

If a carno has the less stam decay diet (2 dot 1 bar) for a long, long time it should be able to lean more into a marathon style carno, to adjust to the players play style

[dusky surge]

i personally despise the stam decay diet

[white crest]

Really?

[dusky surge]

the diets have unique niche scenarios and then this one, really good, perfect diet that is always the meta

it completely overshadows everything else

why would you not want that diet

its objectively the best diet, every time

[livid spindle]

Carno has too little physical strength. If carno is chased on the plain, it will eventually run out of physical strength, but if carno has too much physical strength, it will chase all creatures crazily and it is difficult to balance. If they add more things to the forest, it may not cause everyone to go to the plain.

[dusky surge]

Gateway has a good balance between forest and plains (and is also TERRIBLY designed for ambush carnos due to how open and flat the plains are)

[mental roost]

I do kind of think charge needs to be reworked severely, or completely replaced: Carno being so ambush reliant will only make it struggle horribly ...in its own biome which is full of wide open views and vistas which just feels...wrong

This would also call for things to balance out Carno and jungles that aren't a nightmare to travel though would help out.

[dusky surge]

Hopefully carno gets turned to a pursuit animal before it gets obliterated by Gateway

[white crest]

Fair, but that’s just a players preference, I know a person that goes for all S, or when I play teno I go for 2 dot and 1 S, it depends on the play style

[dusky surge]

yea but, thing is, those are the wrong choices

that's why i hate it, you are never picking right if you aren't picking stam decay

cannibal attacks? you can't outrun it unless you have stam decay. need to escape a cerato as a teno? Best hope you have stam decay or it doesn't. wanna hunt more? stam decay

[white crest]

That’s not the wrong choice that’s your personal preference

[dusky surge]

objectively speaking

[white crest]

Not everyone has your play style

[dusky surge]

the playstyle of winning?

[mighty haven]

brother what ur smoking??

[mighty haven]

in the open i assume?

[white crest]

Mostly open with bushes close

[mighty haven]

would make sense but i would need to see it

to know the cera wasnt wiffing

[alpine plover]

DONT @ ME

go away

[white crest]

Unfortunately I didn’t record the fight but I’ll be sure to record the next one 😁

[dusky surge]

lmao

[mighty haven]

lulw

[white crest]

He wasn’t a bad cera, I’d say a little above average but we were also really good utahs,

[livid spindle]

Charge seems to be a skill that either produces great effect or has no effect, and carno's physical strength is not much, which leads to carno's preference for ambush tactics. If carno's skills are made easier to use, but it will not end the battle as soon as it hits, and at the same time increase carno's physical strength, perhaps carno will be better at chasing tactics. Deino's skills are the same, either completely ineffective or declaring his opponent dead.

[mighty haven]

yeah again wouldn't suprise me considering how hard it is to punish a utah rn

[white crest]

Well above average isn’t really saying that much cuz the “average” isn’t a hight bar

[white crest]

We didn’t pounce

[alpine plover]

Dude

[white crest]

Bites only

[alpine plover]

STOP

[mighty haven]

are you okay?

[mighty haven]

thats actually crazy then

considering the state of alt bites

[white crest]

Yeah we’re really good utahs 💪

[mighty haven]

killing a cera with only bits is insane

[white crest]

I soloed a teno in Update 6 without pounce, I know what I’m saying when it comes to utah

[white crest]

That, I actually caught on recording, it’s on my YT channel if you wanna see for yourself 👍

Anyways I must go to bed, have a good morning/evening/night 😄💪

[crystal wharf]

@mighty haven i feel ceratos bleed res is fine, its not extremely oppressive, especially compared to deinos
what it definitely doesnt need is the fracture resistance, which in general terms completely screws over a single playable, and only that single playable

[fallow blaze]

Oh that explains your knowledge about the game😄
I thought stress testers have a special color in the nametag

[dusky surge]

only QA has a unique colour

[hollow canyon]

that's accurate

Carno is larger and heavier than Cerato by at least half a tonne to some 800kg or more.

In game Carno is smaller than its irl counterpart in the first place.

[alpine plover]

stop replying to me

I dont care anymore

FFS

[hollow canyon]

it was my first time replying to you, calm down

that was the first message I saw when I opened this channel

and it was a particularly bad take soo...

[thick wedge]

when is the sandbox coming out?

In evrima

[hollow canyon]

no idea

the devs haven't said when it would come out I think

[alpine plover]

With Carno's current stam, I wouldnt mind if its charge took no stam use

I like Carno's stam atm

Maybe with a slight speed increase at least

[frosty heron]

Carno is a pretty sadge position rn , I dont fear them even as Omni , think we bleed out 3 Carnos yesterday as 3 Omnis , they dont have the stam to run away from a missed charge

On Legacy Carno was a stam machine and felt better imo

[hollow canyon]

anything feels better than Evrima Carno

butchered up garbage playable

[dusky surge]

lmao true, and they have one update to salvage it before it becomes true, undebatable garbage on Gateway

best hope to god this thing gets a rework soon

[alpine plover]

can't believe there's people calling cera too weak rn lmao

[dusky surge]

ikr

people literally play only cera, die once, call the animal garabge

[alpine plover]

i think some were expecting for it be able to just facetank carnos

[dusky surge]

which is such a bizarre desire too lol

like... you wanted an animal that just auto-wins against carno

with zero actual mechanical depth or thinking

[alpine plover]

yeah its weird

and hey if you've got a decent body nearby you literally can lmao

[dusky surge]

and the fact that people complain that "carno still has no competition" as if omnis, gallis, ceras and tenos haven't all been collectively kicking its ass this update is bizarre

yea, carno can kill ceras. but that's the literal only thing it can do

its amazing too that people are STILL asking for carno nerfs because the ONE animal it performs well against is dying to it

carno is hanging onto a thread and killing ceratos is literally its only way to stay relevant in the roster

[hollow canyon]

in the right circumstances it seemingly can do that

if Carno is below half hunger Cerato facetanks it

[dusky surge]

and hell, if carno gets perceived at ALL by any more than one cera, it's dead essentially due to the whole endurance predator cerato decided to become

[dusky surge]

or if cera has a semi-big corpse

[hollow canyon]

that too

the damage reduction should be lowered and the vomit mechanic has to be weakened

imo

[dusky surge]

i'll be honest. I'm fine with the bleed resist, the sceptic bite (minus vomitlocking), the fracture resist, even the chuffing buff, but putting ALL this defensive capability and then giving the same animal one of the best staminas IN THE GAME to run down most animals on the roster? What?

And that's not even mentioning the fact this thing has absolutely zero stam committal on any of its attacks, or the fact that it has genuinely good speed, agility and aquatic movement, as well as a decent trot

[hollow canyon]

no, stamina is ok, damage is ok, bleed and fracture resistance are ok

the issue is just how potent the chuffing buff is

and how the sceptic bite works

when we first heard of it I assumed it would proc after a certain time not immediately right in the middle of the combat when you get bitten

calling this dumb is an understament

getting infected like that takes time before you start feeling bad

[dusky surge]

idk man, i find it weird that the corpse bully doubles as a nuts endurance hunter

like the fact that the entire matchup with teno is partially decided by what diet each one has is just

bleh

[hollow canyon]

I always said that imo it should be an endurance hunter

I think that's a very nice niche for Cerato

as opposed to Carno which tries to blitz its opponent(or would on some update where it wasn't cursed by the devs)

and Omni which is a bleeder

[slim dragon]

Cerato has no need to be a hunter at all

[hollow canyon]

it does, being just a scavenger is a dumb niche and not very viable in the game

[halcyon elk]

Its a scavenger and bully. That only hunts when it needs to. Think a wolverine for example.

Would you attack a teno when there's a juicy unattended and rotten stego corpse right there?@hollow canyon

I'd honestly go for the stego

@white dagger stego can one shot cera. That should be normal.

[golden coral]

@white daggerOnly on headshot, and with a full body buff, cera can survive a headshot (stupid as that is, cera is... overtuned to say the least).

[white dagger]

it hit me in the body and i got killed in 1 swing

[halcyon elk]

It registered as a headshot. Skill issue.

[distant torrent]

cera has been given so much love in such a short amount of time. more love than dryo or hypsi will ever see

[halcyon elk]

Hypsi getting its climb with herrera:

[white dagger]

bruh, it barely brushed the base of my tail, this game i swear

[halcyon elk]

"It hit my body"
"Brushed the base of my tail"
Two contradicting areas

[white dagger]

i assumed it got a body hit because of how close to my body it was

[distant torrent]

compared to all of ceras buffs and abilities. bacteria, insane stam pool, powerful charge bite with no downside, bleed resistance, fracture resistance, ability to eat rotten meat, ability to stunlock creatures to death, an actual alt bite…

[halcyon elk]

Still. Stegosaurus should 100% be able to kill a cera in one shot.

[white dagger]

not to the body

[golden coral]

Carno could use some buffs, or well, just revert things to U6 aside from the hitbox (that needed fixing) and keep the cost (but maybe only 5%?) on activation of charge. That'd help it out. Teno, not sure what happened there,don't think it needed any nerfs, and it seems to have other issues now as well. Pachy should be fine, though stun only on fracture might be a good idea. Just need to make sure a small group can't just bully and kill way larger things like before.

[distant torrent]

oh and corpse buffs. insane swim speed too

[white dagger]

should nearly kill it but not in 1 shot

[golden coral]

Well, cera has 1300 health, stego does 1250 damage (far as I know), so that wasn't a body hit then.

[white dagger]

yeah i was told

hit boxes

[golden coral]

Most likely yes, unless stego for some reason got 50 more damage, but I sincerely doubt that

[limber delta]

The pick rate of pachy and teno are proof that they need buffs. I still see plenty of carnos around so clearly it hasn't been affected that badly if its pickrate is now average instead of extremely high.

[distant torrent]

poor teno always getting demolished by something every update

[limber delta]

gotta love how every update it goes from decent->useless->decent->useless

[distant torrent]

honestly

[golden coral]

I'm not sure, considering all the other four are still rather new, so people are liable to go for them first. As well as how well they survive as them as they pick them. And then you got to factor in people will generally go for killing ability, cera is better than teno on that account for example, and omni is back to being more or less op. Sure, carnos and the others are still played, but that does not mean they are good. Any more than it means some of the others are bad despite not being the most popular picks (see ptera, probably the best playable for survival, but I don't think it's the most picked one).

[limber delta]

if it has a high pick rate does it really matter if it's not as good as you want it to be? buffing it will only make it overused, like it has been ever since release. Also ptera is picked a lot, if you want to make an unfair comparison of small tiers. it's hypsi and dryo that have low pick rates.

[hollow canyon]

the second sentence says it all

[hollow canyon]

note but that rotten corpse isn't there

[halcyon elk]

If you absolutely have to hunt. You should be able to. Just not all that effectively

As an incentive for looking for a corpse

[hollow canyon]

you can't make a dinosaur reliant on scavenging but hoping that whatever it was that killed the goddamn thing didn't just eat it at once considering the ridiculous Evrima hungers.

Literally stop with those takes, you're talking about it as if it's real life. The game doesn't work like that

at all

[golden coral]

Yes, balance matters, not pick rate? Pick rate is influenced by far more than how good or bad a playable is, but balance relates to how good or bad it is. Also it's not even so much what I want, it's more so just looking at the circumstances. You can have barely picked playables that are well balanced, and vice versa. And sure, ptera is picked a lot, but probably not as much as it's "op" status would imply. Things should not be buffed or nerfed based on how used they are, but if they are matching what they should be and do what they should do, or not.

[hollow canyon]

half the time when I'd kill something as a carnivores I'd just eat the whole thing all at once

the only instance where I'd leave bodies was if I committed mass cannibal fiesta as Deino and left multiple bodies each one eaten just a bit

[hollow canyon]

Carno is trash, no idea about Pachy, Tenonto suffers when it encounters more than one Cerato but considering it got some random nerfs too - it's probably also trash

most old animals on the roster that aren't Deino and Stego are trash, Omni could be good but I have no idea, I haven't played it and I probably won't play this update much more if at all cause it crashes every 20-40 minutes thus it's not worht playing

this might actually be the second most unplayable update after 3.75 and that's being generous in my experience, so far the game crashes as much as during U4 stress tests

I don't remember any other update where they game would be crashing quite this badly

[rigid tulip]

delete pukelock asap, most cringe thing ive ever seen, we cant have pachy stun but we can have this? lol

[knotty venture]

@fast pelican Targets highlight blue/purple. & players using the environment like that is perfectly fine since the venom is deadly.

[alpine plover]

nerf carno charge hitbox like the very little tip of the tail as a hitbox?!

[thin mantle]

Hehe

[golden coral]

The hitbox has already been fixed, I'm pretty sure. On top of everything else, carno is hardly a threat anymore.

[alpine plover]

the very tip on a creatures tail they do 25%

that is stupid

[thin mantle]

Tip of the tail is like…5% of total damag iirc

[golden coral]

Are you talking about the hitbox, or about the multiplier on someones tailbox? Because those are different things. Far as I know, the charge hitbox is fixed, so it shouldn''t be hitting you unless the carno aims well. And far as I know, the multiplier on tip of tail is like .1, so it would not be doing that much at all, so maybe that wasn't a tailtip hit but base of tail or something.

[thin mantle]

Charge hitbox is actually really tight now

[alpine plover]

not on cera it seem

[thin mantle]

That’s not exactly how hitboxes work

The target of the hitbox doesn’t change how big the attacks box is

And Cerato also has some pretty tight hotboxes

So you’re probably having latency issues

[alpine plover]

@thin mantle you seem to know a a lot can you explain how a carno like knocked me over when he hit my full grown cera on the tail

[thin mantle]

Sever latency

You can still get knocked down if it hits the base of your tail btw

Not the end tho

[alpine plover]

What is that for bl

[hollow canyon]

lag, they do that on the base of the tail, the tip is 10%

[hollow canyon]

10%

[thin mantle]

Ahh gotcha

[keen plover]

Less NV won't make the game scarier. Just annoying to play. We still have moon phases planned as well.

Also legacy had apexes that could one shot you and ambush speed for stuff like allo. That's what made it truly 'scary'

Bad NV and something that could nuke all your progress

[wispy gate]

Should a stego rly be able to go face-to-face with a deinosuchos? Doesn't that mean that it'll be able to kill gigas quite easily?

Without trikes it's hard to tell how strong deinosuchos really is and maybe I'm overestimating it a bit

[slim dragon]

Yes it should, deinosuchus isn't supposed to be hunting things its own size, as opposed to giga

[wispy gate]

I just find it weird that the stego is able to tank so much and it doesn't have any sort of armor like anky

Maybe rough skin, but idk

[thin mantle]

Same can be said for deino

[slim dragon]

Stego's health is equal to its weight, just like with every other animal
It isn't especially "tanky", it's just big

[thin mantle]

By all rights it should die in one hit

If attack concequences were realistic

[slim dragon]

Stego is also the only creature to take more than % damage on its head

[thin mantle]

Thankfully they aren't, otherwise combat would be really boring

[slim dragon]

Oh right mb

[wispy gate]

it doesn't feel right. I've always seen it as a glassy-cannonish dinosaur. Not a dinosaur that u bite 5 times and it dies, but I've seen deinos hitting them multiple times and still not managing to kill it

But I get what you mean by the deino not being supposed to hunt big prey

[thin mantle]

Well your perception is simply wrong then

Stego is just a cannon

[wispy gate]

it does seem that way

Hopefully once the giga is introduced, we can get a better perception

[thin mantle]

Oh giga is a terrible predator for it

[wispy gate]

It wouldn't be able to bleed it out?

[thin mantle]

Giga is an animal stego needs to be directly buffed to counter

[thin mantle]

Well ofcourse it would be able to...but stegos bleed output is lilely far higher, as well as it's damage

[dusky surge]

by all accounts, giga will likely hand stego's ass to it on a platter, same with rex. Stego lacks landspeed, water speed, and the deinosuchus matchup is only so easy because it has poor agility, stam and speed

[alpine plover]

make it so stegos cant just spamm their tail without any consecvenses like you cant even get a hit on them

[thin mantle]

Why

It's not even free it costs stam

[alpine plover]

wdy they got so much stamina can do 20 swings and more without regaining stamina

[wispy gate]

It'd be interesting if it worked like raptor's jumps. Steadily costing more and more stamina? I can't talk much about it cuz I'm still getting used to it

[thin mantle]

There's quite literally no need for these nerfs

The only matchup that gets changed by this is deino v stego

Which should already be heavily stego favored

[wispy gate]

Its kinda hard to hunt stego with anything else

[thin mantle]

Good

That's, well, it's supposed to be basically the hardest thing to kill bar deino

[cosmic pelican]

Omnis and troodons do decently well against it

[thin mantle]

Because deino literally can't die

[wispy gate]

Never tried with troodon. Might give it a shot cuz it sounds fun

[cosmic pelican]

It is, without latency...

[wispy gate]

oof

[thin mantle]

Latency permeats every matchup unfortunately

even negatively impacts stegos

[cosmic pelican]

Blame stego for the latency issues

[keen plover]

cerato can hunt it

Groups of 4 can

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/778350416831709314/1124558049160474695/GIF_2023-6-29_8-25-35.gif

[wispy gate]

I've gave it a few shots but never with an organized group

[cosmic pelican]

[keen plover]

A pack can vomit lock it

nukes stego

[thin mantle]

Duos stunlock it as well

Not sustainably but they still can

[keen plover]

Yeah but 4 are needed to get the damage needed

[thin mantle]

Mhm

It's just hilarious that they can even proc it more than once

[keen plover]

also an extra body to throw in if one dies. So more bacteria

[wispy gate]

In estimate, how long does it take?

[keen plover]

Can be a minute to like 5 minutes

[thin mantle]

To kill a stego with ceratos?

40 seconds ish

With 4

[cosmic pelican]

Still much faster than what omni and troodon can do...

[thin mantle]

Which doesn't really prove a whole lot since they're supposed to suck at hunting stego anyway

But cera shouldn't even be trying let alone excelling

[cosmic pelican]

But they stilll have the highest chance of sucsess out of the current roster, maybe alongside deino

[thin mantle]

Uhh...well no it's still cerato

But yeah they'd be next on the list

[cosmic pelican]

Well I was referring to an ideal world where cera isnt a God
But I undertsand :p

[dusky surge]

lmao

[thin mantle]

Understandable

[hollow canyon]

@hasty chasm ngl I have no idea why people are downvoting you. Carno has probably the worst diet in the game rn on top of being one of the worst if not the worst animal in the game.

I was playing Cerato the whole time and only when i decided to do some short testing for it I swapped to Carno to see how their bite attack speeds compare and realised that Carno's diet is so bad the thing is borderline unplayable.

Having said that - the AI is not the problem, Deino should not be on the diet, it's just Cerato that should end up on the S nutrient for it and its diet would be fixed.

Omni having deino on its diet might be one of the most baffling choices the devs have ever made considering that's the worst match up Omni has in the game

[dusky surge]

because deino being on carno's diet is absurd to me

[hollow canyon]

oh yea that part is just dumb

Cerato however should absolutely be there and it not being there is utterly incomprehensible

tbh yea, I agree that's a downvote just for the Deino on Carno's diet

[lost cave]

How are omniraptors meant to approach larger prey? Even as a pack, they have such low HP that a random bite or bad hitbox can kill one of them.

I figured the goal would be to circle the prey with your pack and pounce/bite when their back is turned, but that consistently did not work. Am I missing something?

[hollow canyon]

it's just pounce, they're meant to pounce it and rotate the pouncing/engagint Omnis. Hunting large game is and pretty much always will be dangerous, especially considering that the current large animals are just very dangerous for Omni. Something like a Maia or Para would be much more approachable.

[lost cave]

Is pounce better to hang on or hit and dismount? Seems like you're better off with the latter, despite latching and clawing seeming like the better option

[hollow canyon]

I am not sure how it is on the current patch cause it's been changing throughout the game's existence. Back in the day you'd just pounce and dismount but then they were supposed to change something up so that pounce would work better the longer you'd stay on but no idea how it is now - people have been saying that pouncing and dismounting quickly is better now but I haven't played Omni on this update.

[unborn iris]

If they buck, it's pretty much better to just get quick tap pounces.

Depending how easy it is for the dino you're pouncing to land bites as you go in or come off.

I guess it's situational. So kind of works out. But purely stam usage to bleed amount, tap pounces are more efficient, by far if they buck.

[hasty chasm]

I've killed stegos as a small raptor pack. We got one last night with a bigger pack (7)

[hasty chasm]

So every carnivore has vast diet options including raptors and cera having deino on their diet but carno has about 2 or 3 viable choices and the S diet is just terrible. Not only did carno get the food nerf but also got hard nerfed in all stages of its life. And the bozos say bc deino down vote.

[hollow canyon]

2 choices, it should get Cerato added that, not Deino

Deino dumpsters it and Carno has no business approaching it

Cerato on the other hand might just be its best match up right now

even though Cerato can kill it rather easily too

[hasty chasm]

I would argue if you nerf a very strong predator to the ground it should be able to scavenge to compensate for lack of fighting capability.

[hollow canyon]

remove that Deino from there and I will upvote it again

[hollow canyon]

nah it should get buffed up

[hasty chasm]

True

[hollow canyon]

Carno is just bad, it needs buffs

[hasty chasm]

That's a better route

[hollow canyon]

Cerato needs some nerfs too, it's a bit too bad

[hasty chasm]

Teno too

[hollow canyon]

• Carno needs Cerato on its diet, it's a very sensible food source for it

[hasty chasm]

Every teno move = stam

[hollow canyon]

yea, Tenonto is definitely bad too

[hasty chasm]

Tenos just run now, they don't even fight lol

[hollow canyon]

tbh they don't cost that much stam, the issue is that its stam diet is only available in one spot on the map, occassionally appearing in the south too

[hasty chasm]

Mtn ash se is annoying. I eventually stpp going and just pvp center with potato lmfao

[hollow canyon]

it is...

[limber delta]

I’m assuming it’s because omnis can hunt juve deinos easily, their pin makes sure they can’t escape further to water.

Carno is actually still so good right now, I only have trouble getting the diet for it as a juve, but as an adult I can still bully more than half the server. I don’t think the people complaining have actually mastered carno and just want it to be buffed back to the point there’s no reason to play anything else

[dusky surge]

carno is not good right now, and i seriously have no idea how you're bullying anyone

well... actually, half the server are probably braindead solo ceras, so that part is believable

because literally the only thing carno can "bully" are braindead solo ceras

this constant belief of "if you want carno changed in any way you clearly want an overpowered god animal" is an absurd sentiment, I seriously can't understand why the carno hate runs this deep with the community

[hollow canyon]

that's some serious skill issue on the side of Deino. I have spammed that thing a tonne last year, never, ever have I died to Omnis and any update where there's a lot of Omnis is an amazing update to Deino as they are the easiest thing to bully.

Deino also outgrows an Omni in like an hour if not less.

Also - Carno isn't just "not good", it's utter garbage.

[dusky surge]

^

literally the worst animal in the game right now

[limber delta]

I’ve been playing it and it’s better than cera right now adult vs adult

[dusky surge]

it beats ceras, this is true

[limber delta]

No I mean generally

[dusky surge]

but much like with deino and stego, an animal is more than a single matchup

[dusky surge]

no way lol

[limber delta]

If both are adults, carno has an easier time overall

[hollow canyon]

atrocious diet, awful running turn rate(borderline lack there of), disgustingly slow acceleration, laughably short hunger time, second lowest stamina in the game after land Deino.

It's probably the worst animal in the game.

[dusky surge]

how??

cerato has a billion options and defenses to ensure it doesn't die

carno struggles the moment it encounters a dense forest or any water body

[limber delta]

And carno can survive a million times easier because it can hold shift+w

[dusky surge]

then ceras stam it down

and it dies

[hollow canyon]

Cerato is a vastly superior pick, it deals vastly more damage, has a powerful, long lastking, stacking crowd control that gets worse the longer the fight lasts. Damage resistance, agility, turn rate, aquatic capabilities, diet, ability to eat things that only one other creature can eat.

Carno has speed and hp - literally that's it.

[limber delta]

Tested that, doesn’t happen unless carno gets vomited

[hollow canyon]

its stamina is so poor Ceratos can track it down with ease

[dusky surge]

genuinely surprising people think carno is better lol

[limber delta]

Carno is better right now

[hollow canyon]

lol

[limber delta]

Just because it got nerfed doesn’t mean it’s bad

[dusky surge]

It is literally bad

[hollow canyon]

it's not bad, it's trash

[limber delta]

I can easily control an entire biome when I pick carno

[dusky surge]

I would rather play cera a billion times over

[limber delta]

I don’t know how you guys can’t

[hollow canyon]

^, I haven't even touched Carno this update aside from a short test on a test server

it's garbage

[dusky surge]

I have. Never again

God it's just insufferably bad

[limber delta]

“Carno sucks” (hasn’t even played it much)

[hollow canyon]

I don't need to, I took a look at what's been done with it on the stress test server

killing some random halfwits on the officials doesn't make it good

it was questionable last update where it was simply overpowered in combat due to the broken ram hitbox

[dusky surge]

Carno's ONLY advantages are speed, health and burst damage.

It's weaknesses? NV, hunger rate, stamina, swim-speed, bleed vulnerability, acceleration, turn radius, charge melts stam, limited diet

[hollow canyon]

its survivability and comfort while playing were non-existant even there

[dusky surge]

The greatest glaring isssue with carno is the fact that its still designed as a terrible, terrible ambush predator. The charge damage is absurdly overtuned, so everything else about it has been made insufferably weak to compensate

[hollow canyon]

it's an animal that has asthma, struggles to travel and has one of the shortest hunger times in the game

just that would make it awful, but on top of that it's trash in combat against anyone that's playing this game with both hands and not blindfolded

[dusky surge]

2 omnis are essentially a death sentence for carno

same with 2 ceras

[limber delta]

The pros unironically outweigh the cons here

[hollow canyon]

what pros? It has 2

literally 2 good things about it - the HP and the speed

that's it, everything else about it is bad to awful

[limber delta]

It has some of the best cc in the game, it has the greatest speed, it doesn’t suffer from any hitbox issues, all attacks are consistent etc

It’s so good right now

[hollow canyon]

its CC is awful

[dusky surge]

The charge and its CC are literally part of the reason it's in such a terrible spot. The devs have designed the entire animal's kit around an absurdly overtuned move that does nuts damage and knockdowns

[hollow canyon]

it needs someone to be so bad to be unable to get out of the way of a very slowly accelerating, incapable of turning log moving at them

[limber delta]

So a consistent full knockdown that requires no timing is bad cc?

[hollow canyon]

it does require timing

[dusky surge]

"No timing"

Unless you want to lose all stam in an instant, you time it

[hollow canyon]

it's not instant, it needs 3 seconds of running to be able to use this ability

Tenonto does it from immediately

so does Utah that can pin anything up to its size with a click of a button, so does Deino that can do it instantly with a lunge

[limber delta]

I don’t consider clicking right click a whole second and waiting to either miss or hit ‘timing’, especially compared to Omni and pachy

[hollow canyon]

Carno is conceptually and actually just garbage

[limber delta]

It’s very good to play right now, better than cera

[dusky surge]

I heavily disagree

[hollow canyon]

that's just an outright lie

[dusky surge]

Everything about it feels like a punishment for playing it

I seriously hope to God they tune down the charge's damage so they can work on rebuiliding the rest of its kit to actually fulfil its niche

[hollow canyon]

I've played only Cerato this update, Carno is not even worth touching, it's worse than Cerato in every way aside from speed and tankiness, its CC is also worse. I'd rather have a stackable vomit than that trash charge which anyone playing without a blindolf can dodge

[limber delta]

The speed is what makes carno really good despite the nerfs

‘I don’t want to fight these 5 ceras’ runs away unharmed

[dusky surge]

if FIVE CERAS can't kill a carno who runs away, that's some garbage ceras lol

Stam down, find, kill

[hollow canyon]

Carno rn has:

1. the lowest runtime in the whole roster aside from land Deino
2. the worst turn rate in the game
3. the only ability that can't be used immediately and requires specific requirements to be filled
4. the lowest hungertime in the game
5. the worst diet in the game
6. the worst attack speed in the game
7. the worst stamina in the game
8. one of the highest stamina costs in the game for its ability

[limber delta]

Carno can’t get stammed down unless it gets vomited or there’s severe diet diff

[hollow canyon]

they will catch you if they're any good

[dusky surge]

Like... By the same logic, galli should be absolutely insane in your eyes, since it has all of the advantages of carno, but the weaknesses are far less oppressively glaring

[limber delta]

Unironically yes

[hollow canyon]

it does get stammed down, it can't run as far as Cerato can

[dusky surge]

Galli ironically is carno done better than carno

It's a MUCH better small game hunter with decent stamina management mechanics that aren't oppressive, knockdowns that aren't absurdly broken and enough stamina to both be ready to fight and escape, while still taking the carno's signature turn radius and acceleration weaknesses

[hollow canyon]

@limber deltaoh wait, I'd have forgotten:
9. the worst bleed resistance in the game

[limber delta]

Its speed counteracts that, it can make a huge distance in one stamina round, then recover it before ceras even get to it

[dusky surge]

If they designed carno like galli, they'd be close to a very perfect animal

[hollow canyon]

it has looaaaaaads of the worst things in the game

[dusky surge]

Seriously tho, galli is done so well at completing carno's niche, it's sad that carno doesn't just take a note out of its book

[limber delta]

You seem to want to force carno into a role that you want it in

[dusky surge]

No, I want carno in a role ot can survive in

[hollow canyon]

you effectively need to hope that your Carno is at full stam when you encounter whatever it is that could kill you, which Carno needs to travel as it starves without running between its meals.

[dusky surge]

idk if you've seen gateway, but ambush carno (or whatever it is carno is now) will be obliterated in that environment

Flat, open plains with far more limited foliage

[hollow canyon]

Carno was trash on gateway even before the nerf

[dusky surge]

Carried exclusively by the hitbox

[limber delta]

Then why are you complaining? You already have what you want, carno is already a top pick rate in 6.5 and adults are everywhere

[dusky surge]

Oh, not even mentioning the addition of broader water sources, carno's greatest weakness, and the greater utilisation of forests, which carno struggles hard in

[hollow canyon]

it was carried exclusively by the broken hitbox everywhere. It would've been passable if they just nerfed that but they nerfed everything about it

[dusky surge]

Carno is absolutely not a top pick rate?

[hollow canyon]

no? I haven't seen a single Carno in my whole time playing Cerato, it was hordes of other Ceratos everywhere, quite a lot of Troodons, some Beipis and Deinos whom I've heard but never seen.

[dusky surge]

I see troodons, beipis, omnis, deinos, gallis, pteras and ESPECIALLY ceras more than i see carnos

[hollow canyon]

Not a single Carno in my whole time as Cerato yesterday

[dusky surge]

What carnos are you seeing?

[limber delta]

In EU 1, EU 4, EU 6 and EU 7 carnos are everywhere. Around half as popular as ceras but that’s to be expected

[hollow canyon]

cool I've played on EU5 - again - not a single Carno in the whole time I was there

[dusky surge]

That's bizarre to me, in AU servers I never see 'em, and in an entire 4 hours on an NA server, I heard a single carno and that's it

[hollow canyon]

I've ran across the whole centre and all of SE, I haven't just not seen them - I haven't even heard a single one

[limber delta]

Then you’re either lying or not moving around

[hollow canyon]

in the peak hours at that

[hollow canyon]

or I'm telling the truth and you're lying

which I have moved around - all around centre and SE, I've seen all of the new animals and heard Deinos

and I think one Omni in South East, around the swamp

[limber delta]

Could be if I didn’t just hear one in center plains on EU7

[dusky surge]

The only reason are playing carno is because it's the only true "solution" to the cera swarms plaguing

against any other animal, it's pretty awful

[hollow canyon]

it's awful against Cerato because it doesn't gain anything from killing it, it's not on its diet

[limber delta]

Wrong, double stam diet cera is the best solution for that. I would know.

[limber delta]

Organs

[dusky surge]

so what's carno good for lol

i gave carno one good praise and you shut it down lol

[hollow canyon]

you can get organs from everything, Cerato specifically can make you vomit at that and you're likely to lose more than you gain from that fight

that is if Cerato can actually move from the way of your charge

which shouldn't be a problem to anyone who isn't absolutely trash at the game

[limber delta]

Choosing when and what fights you want as long as you keep your stamina, being fast enough to actually catch omnis and gallis, 1v1ing ceras, the best pack synergy in the game besides omnis and stego hunting ceras