balance-feedback-discussion

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, exactly. Cus the utah has all the tools to not do a mistake. Speed/agility/stam etc.

Its what you get in return for loosing that , power and health.

[old hull]

sure on the utah case you could make that argument , but if you try to fight an apex as anything midtier its the exact same

the gap between apex and midtier on legacy was stupid af , for a tiny bit more growth time put in you are like 5x stronger

and all you sacrifice is slightly less agility , but in gigas case you dont even lose that

thats why everyone picked them , not too hard to grow and are so brainhead to play a blind person can do it

[obtuse ocean]

Cus your not supose to take on an apex, i would 10 out 10 times go in a pack of dilos vs an apex then allos. But allos where far better at going for smaller tiers

[old hull]

yes because a game where over half the roster cant do anything but run from the big bad apexes sounds so fun to play

rex is only slightly bigger then allo and yet it can kill 10 on them easily lol

[obtuse ocean]

Yes it is, they are apexes for a reason. Sounds like you just wanne pack up and have easy kill

[old hull]

damn you went from calling me an apex player that wants it to easy to now a midtier player who wants it easy lol

sounds like you just want to disagree for the sake of it so you are no longer worth my time

[obtuse ocean]

yea thats what im seeing from this , they are top of the foodchain. They gonna have huge problem with their own, and prob survival. But the split second you wanne brawl and apex, that should be hard as hell.

[halcyon elk]

In my opinion that apexes should be a high skill floor. But an enormously high skill ceiling

[unborn iris]

The problem is in this game 90% of the "skill" comes from the movement.

[hollow canyon]

ermmm... no? Large swathes of the playerbase spammed Utah and Allo, I would say either one of those two was more numerous than any apex.

Allo didn't grow in 4 hours and Rex didn't grow in 5

Allo had one of the lowest skill floors in the game while also having one of the highest skill ceilings. T.rex handled every opponent well in a 1v1 but it was garbage vs groups and killing it even on officials as a group of Utahs/Dilos was not difficult.

You also never really wanted to spam left click in legacy either way, that's a skill issued way of playing that game.

[thin bough]

dude why does everybody feel the need to write out an essay in balance feeback

[dusky surge]

thats where essays go

[thin bough]

to get downvoted into oblivion because they feel the need to write every minor issue they have with balancing issues

[dusky surge]

hey man

thats just where they go i dont make the rules

[strong solar]

Yeah well never settle for less

[strong solar]

Essays are really easy to write so I don’t blame them

[thin bough]

take it to reddit \

[strong solar]

Good luck getting that to happen

[dawn falcon]

Balance feedback is balance feedback for a reason. You’re literally just explaining what you want changed.

[thin bough]

that doesnt mean list out every niche issue you have with the game 💀

[stark knoll]

People are encouraged to share their thoughts about the game's balance. Any and all of them they want

Quit trying to discourage constructice feedback 👍

[thin bough]

yeah just dont write 10 paragraphs about how you hate the bush placement at 192.23, 293.192, 68.823 and how it should actually be a rock instead because it limits deino gameplay

[dawn falcon]

People can write that stuff, bruh.
Devs will still read it.

But go off I guess

[loud rune]

i don't know if they truly did fix carnos absurd charge hitbox because im still getting hit and killed as an omniraptor from id say 4 meters away from the carno with 20 ping i don't know if its latency or not but its so frustrating to fight a carno when they can spam their charge and just hit you with the full force of air

[keen plover]

20 ping?

6.5???

Also even if you have good ping, the player you're against probably has high ping. If they hit you on their screen, then the damage is taken. Even if you were miles away on your own end

[small jacinth]

it should be server based but you can only dream about that, as bird said you're gonna get killed if guy has 200 ping and is literaly on top of you on his screen

[loud rune]

Wow i didnt know it was server based like that and i meant 20 ping for myself i didnt know i had to take into account my targets ping either guess that clears up things still very annoying guess carnos off the table if thats the case

[dusky surge]

@gleaming verge carno canni was a massive reason they were so good at megapacking and were literally all over the place in U6

i'd prefer carno be a hard grow to an easy grow

canni makes carno way too easy to grow

[gleaming verge]

I understand, I never really want to over pack anyway, but if thats how u want it, then enjoy it :)

[dusky surge]

i mean, i enjoy carno being hard to grow

[winter iris]

Just don’t read it if you don’t like it

[slim dragon]

@wild yew Update 3 had absolutely terrible balance

[wild yew]

How?

[golden coral]

Omni is most likely going to end up overtuned now again, if not outright op, but that's kind of how the balancing seem to go. What was good about U3? I honestly don't recall much any more, but I'm pretty sure there were all kinds of issues back then.

[slim dragon]

Stego was under dryo in the food chain
Ptera could solo anything

[dusky surge]

deino was a beyblade

[wild yew]

Now Stegos can go afk and nobody will get close to them (OP) and on the other hand we are playing on Carno And Dino Isle so yea .. Back to my point Omni are useless right now between the lag and get hit once by a Carno Ramp they have no chance .. but i respect all opinion but the game speak for it self .

[wild yew]

Now is better right ? 😂

[golden coral]

I would say omni is more or less balanced in U6. Aside from some bug with the turn radius, or whatever happened there, carnos shadow charge hitbox, and the visual issue with bucking, omni is perfectly fine. The only fix needed was for those things, but as per usual, things seem to have been overdone and now omni is most likely going to be op again, even more than it was in U5-5.5.

[hollow canyon]

That is precisely what should be written - you ought to give concrete examples of what's wrong instead of saying "map be bad, devs fix fast"

[golden coral]

Well yes, it's a stego, what did you expect. It's like deino, they're not something you mess with.

[hollow canyon]

Stego was food to everything that looked its way. Utah had half the health of Carno while being a quarter of its size(not to mention larger animals like deino and stego whose health pools were extremely tiny for such enormous animals). Carno and Utah butchereted everything else at the time with ease and ruled the map while herbivores cowered in fear.

It was also a bad balance design to build the game upon.

[hollow canyon]

now the game is as bad as anyone would expect of this bunch of playables put together.

[proven trail]

Please put in a bigger land Carnivore. The fact that the biggest herb can one-two shot the biggest land pred and the biggest aqua pred can grab and drown a fg land pred needs some balance. We need a rex or spino size carnivore.

[placid reef]

Wasnt u3 Utah bleed also... beyond busted?

[hollow canyon]

that was not even the biggest issue with it

[hollow canyon]

Rex is getting added "soon"

[alpine sleet]

what do yall think about the cera buff near corpses? i feel like people can just camp them until the body disappears

[placid reef]

No, just adding to how much of a mess/wild moment u3 was for balance

[placid reef]

Thats kinda their deal, Cera camps coprses

It cant hunt from there, it cant go out, its camping the corpse so it can eat it

[alpine sleet]

i mean if i was a carno i could camp near a cera until he loses the body buff and kill it

not the cera

[hollow canyon]

it's fine

[hollow canyon]

skill issue on the side of Cerato if it lets that happen

[alpine sleet]

but what would be the way to avoid that?

[placid reef]

Huh? I dont see the issue with cera beeing able to camp a coprse

Its what its meant to do

[alpine sleet]

nono im not saying that, i mean other predators like carno could just wait for the body to dissapear then butcher ceras

[hollow canyon]

not what the argument is about

[placid reef]

Ahhh

Misunderstood, mb

[alpine sleet]

like imagine you are in a group with 3 ceras and then 3 carnos appears, wait for you to end the body or the moment you need to drink water then kill you

[placid reef]

Idealy Cera camps corpses that have been left or fresh kills so the thing that took it need the food, so the longer it waits for the cera the more it starves and Cera can wait as while bc rotten meat doesnt affect it

[proven trail]

I mean the same way as any other dinos pros and cons. How do you stop people from camping raptors when they have to get off a rock to eat or drink? You dont but thats the risk with any dino. Your buffs only get you so far

[placid reef]

Thats what I believe the devs designed cera around, that context

[alpine sleet]

yes makes sense

[distant torrent]

@ember osprey pretty sure deino is being taken off the cannibal list next update, so megapacks won’t be much of an issue (unless people still constantly swarm nw and throw themselves to the crocs). big deino packs almost always sustain themselves on other deinos

[ember osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/john-cena-cena-are-you-sure-are-you-sure-about-that-are-you-sure-about-that-meme-gif-23133134

[ember osprey]

No for real, let's see. I hope, it makes sense that the only form of sustainability is to cannibalize. Won't it make no difference tho? Like if they don't care about nutrients nothing's going to change

[distant torrent]

I’d imagine they’ll care about nutrients if the punishments for having terrible diet actually are something to fear. unfortunately deinos can’t vomit so that debuff for cannibalism is thrown out the window

but at the very least they won’t be able to get nutrients easily

I think diet buffs and debuffs are bugged anyways. I bet those stats that go into the negatives when you have zero diet will be absolutely debilitating if they’re indeed bugged and are finally fixed. I want it to take ages for stam to regen if it even regens at all with zero diet

[neon willow]

Vomiting is not one of the punishments for cannibalism. Cannibalism is punished with muscle spasms (random bites), infertility, and no diet gained. Presumably, the same would apply to Crocs as well.

Honestly, with how long it takes for deinos hunger to drain, and the fact that you cannot gain nutrients after your hunger is at 100%, that's already a pretty big incentive not to eat other Crocs just for food alone. Plus the random biting is extremely loud, which will alert not only other deino's, but also land dinos not to drink

Makes them easier to avoid. But also, it would be nice if poor diet (no nutrients) also debuffs max health, as an extra little kick to be paying attention to diet foods. That would also have the side effect of making canni deino's significantly weaker than normal deino's, making megapacks that sustain on deino's weaker and easier to fight

[indigo tide]

#balance-feedback message this is definetly a carno player lmfao

[dawn falcon]

It’s copium to think 6.5 Carno is balanced

[indigo tide]

i know, but i can tell who plays who by how they respond

[stark knoll]

Carno is no longer a cannibal, deino still is

[indigo tide]

it’s not a bad thing, carno isn’t balanced but i can tell he’s\she’s a carno player

[dawn falcon]

I mean sure ig

[golden coral]

No, no you can not. You have no idea how many times I've seen someone be accused of being x main, while knowing that is not the case at all.

[frail bobcat]

If you had a euro for every time you have been called a x main, you would probably call Bill Gates a poor man.

[rigid tulip]

carno is easy mode, literally just dont be low stamina around anything and u stay alive or kill them

[dusky surge]

carno in 6.5 is not easy mode

it is by far the most unpleasant animal to play in the entire update

[rigid tulip]

i almost exclusively play raptor and i played with 2 friends on carno today for the first time in 4 months and i counted our kills, we ended up with 30 before we logged for the night. Copium

[dusky surge]

I'm talking about U6.5

[rigid tulip]

oh my fault gang

[dusky surge]

starve fast, can't see at night, water/forests instantly end your hunt, stammed down by ceras, bled out by omnis and gallis, disabled entirely by pachies, ran circles around by dryo/troodon/omni

U6 carno is a bad animal carried by a ludicrously OP and broken charge. Without the charge having a celestial body of a hitbox, carno would likely be underpowered, and U6.5 made everything about U6 carno worse while fixing the one bug it relied on to be playable (this being said, that bug was awful and 100% needed to be fixed)

[rigid tulip]

keep carno how it is rn but nerf charge hitbox, slightly buff acceleration, and give cera a small 24/7 damage resist then carno is not the opressive fastest animal in the game plus the land apex (wonderful idea for a dinosaur)

[dusky surge]

i'd prefer its accel stays lower

also cera doesn't really need a 24/7 damage resist, it's meant to be focused on corpses specifically

if you get beaten down for chasing a teno, that's on you

cera is also well and truly already VERY strong

[rigid tulip]

its just honestly a gimmicky mechanic that feels like POT to me, personally

and i cant imagine accidentally finishing a corpse as cera then just getting facetanked by a carno like wow thats just beautiful man

[dawn falcon]

I think that’s the point

[dusky surge]

i mean, troodon has timers on its venom, galli can speed boost its allies with a call, beipi can infinitely dolphin dive

U6.5 isn't much stranger to gimmicky mechanics

[dawn falcon]

Cera bullies you off the corpse, you try to bully it, surprise damage reduction

[dusky surge]

idk why cera's is so egregious

chuff buff is no more strange than galli's call buff

[dawn falcon]

And if you’re patient enough to wait for it to finish than I think that’s fair

[rigid tulip]

some people dont like the fastest dinosaur on land also being the strongest

like i said when i played carno earlier literally we killed so much that the only thing we could even still find was other carnos, stegos, deinos, and baby dinos we logged because of boredom man like on raptor i NEVER have this same issue even when we have like two full groups lol its just low risk high reward compared to raptor, just nerf the charge hitbox and add some competition like a predator that can run it down over distance and outmuscle it

there is just simply no like "existential threat" as carno rn, u arent constantly worrying like you have to with omni whatsoever imo, just my two cents, sorry if i came off as rude didnt mean to

[lyric anchor]

Enlarge the bones in back

[hollow canyon]

Those are very sensible buffs though. I'd personally go about it another way - buff its agility, obliterate the damage on the charge to the point where it would deal little to no damage, and make it rely on knocking down smaller things to then kill them with bites.

Considering it's been absurdly overpowered on U6 however, it's probably in for being garbage for some time in the future and then it will probably get buffed again in the next update or whenever. That's just the balance cycle in Evrima. It's either Carno or Utah being too strong quite consistently.

As for the stamina I'd globally buff the stamina of every animal in the game by doubling it. This game is a chore to play with the awful mobility of every animal coupled with relatively small hunger and thirst pools.

[keen plover]

^ infinitely more fun Carno

Carno hasn't felt fun in ages

[dusky surge]

I'd personally buff carno's trot speed too

Even if it were in the place of a stam buff

[keen plover]

(Galli, Pachy & Carno should get a trot buff)

[dusky surge]

fair

troodon is a rare example of an animal that actually has a decent and useful trot

good stam regen, good mobility

[keen plover]

Also good stamina in general.

Galli should have its legacy trot imo

A lot of personality behind it

And it was one of the faster trots

Good for a plains creature

[indigo tide]

those buffs are a good idea ngl

the charge shouldn’t do massive damage just knockdown

[indigo tide]

facts i also feel we should last 3x longer without having to hunt or something, feel like i always have to kill something instead of being able to explore the map

hunger and thirst i mean

[hollow canyon]

Absolutely although 3x longer seems a bit excessive in my book

[gray barn]

i feel that water should drain much slower for everything making going to other places/exploring the map a bit more viable rather then just hanging around hot spots/the same places the whole time because its the only place with diet and water

[rigid tulip]

fr fr no cap

[halcyon elk]

@strong solar in my opinion. I believe that they should have albertosaurus. Or allosaurus be added as a countermeasure. When the ecosystem is more fleshed out I mean. For rn stego is overpowered due to lack of large enough predators. Even then a skilled pack of omnis in 6.5 could probably take one down

[strong solar]

If stego is overpowered these new predators would need to be even stronger to take it on

which means a massive power gap between something like albertosaurus, allosaurus, etc and the currently roster

Stego isn’t overpowered because of the lack of predators, it’s overpowered because it has no real weakness. It has amazing health and amazing attack, shrugs off attacks, and is unhuntable

from what I’ve seen even deino struggles to fight it when it should be an even 50/50 depending on skill. Deino is one of the massive predators that is stronger than allosaurus and albertasaurus I guarantee you yet it cannot take on a stego current build

I hope you see what I mean

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't supposed to hunt stego, at all. There is also a massive power gap between deino and everything else, and deino is much more OP than stego, but for some reason no one bats an eye about it.

Carno is also not a big game hunter either, which only leaves omni as a potential threat to stego, but as expected, it takes skill and coordination for a pack of omnis to kill a stego, which most people in this game lack

Things like allo and alberto are much larger than carno, and most likely better suited to kill big prey, so packs of those will very likely pose a threat to stegos

Stego will also require a buff when apexes comes because from what we've seen of rex so far it may completely invalidate its existence by merely looking at it

[strong solar]

So deino cannot hunt stego but allo and Alberto can? Deino can drag both of those in the water and eat em up with ease. Who is making these rules you’re putting here

[slim dragon]

Common sense

Animals are specialized into niches. Deino's niche isn't to kill anything above 4 tons

Omni, for example, is specialized into killing things larger than itself in packs

[strong solar]

You talking about deinos niche irl or in the game? This is a game where you can do whatever you’d like in the name of game balance. Unless this is written down in the isle’s pre planned thing or whatever you can easily switch it up and allow deino to kill stego. A massive alligator slamming its jaws on the animal’s head and killing it isn’t outside of the realm of possibility

currently the game isn’t very balanced so that’s why I’m bringing it up

currently in official you got stego taking up the niche of killing everything and everyone because it’s an op playable in a game

[dusky surge]

it has a plethora of weaknesses, to the point that I fear larger predators will outright invalidate it

rex for instance has a very worrying potential matchup

[strong solar]

I’m talking about currently, it can take years for Rex to come out at this rate ngl

also adding rex in at this state wouldn’t be a great idea

[slim dragon]

I'm talking about the game
In game deino is designed to kill things under 4 tons
It can do other things, but it won't be as efficient at it

Just like you can go the tank route as a rogue in WoW, but it won't be very efficient

[dusky surge]

rex is planned to come after like U7

on unofficials

its quite literally in production atm

[strong solar]

Curious but is this written anywhere

I don’t hang out in this discord or look at the trello as much as you possibly do

[slim dragon]

It was mentioned a few times
Also just look at its kit
Deino's ability only works on things under half its weight

[strong solar]

Gotcha

I don’t think waiting on more predators is a very… viable strategy rn

We don’t know when these things are releasing as update 7 looks like Diablo, dilo, and herra are coming out

and stego can continue walloping everything and killing everyone for eternity if nothing is done about it

[dusky surge]

stego is also arguably way easier to kill than deino

[slim dragon]

You know you can also just ignore stegos

You have the option of walking away as any dino
Except if you're a stego yourself

[strong solar]

They body camp & hide in bushes and are great ammo for mixpacking

Deino isn’t much better either but it’s stuck in the water at the very least

[dusky surge]

it's only stuck in water because of stego

[strong solar]

And water drain

[dusky surge]

eh, not as much a deterrent

[slim dragon]

Back when deino could kill stegos easily you would see land deinos all the time

[dusky surge]

i still remember how pathetic U3 stego was

[slim dragon]

And they would not just camp bodies, they would eat them all without anyone being able to do anything

[dusky surge]

they still can

can't vomit, no problem eating rot, nutrients from bones

[strong solar]

Forgot what update this was but you were able to kill stegos as carnos p sure it just took a massive pack and a few causalities

Was a fun fight

[slim dragon]

In update 3 a solo carno could kill a stego without breaking a sweat

[strong solar]

Well that ain’t right

[slim dragon]

And you still can
But it's not recommended

[dusky surge]

carno really shouldn't be facing off against stego

i honestly don't know why every animal that's a carnivore keeps getting specifically requested to matchup against stego

from omni mains assuming they're apex hunters, to deino mains getting upset that they have mortality, to that pesky video where he said carno hunts stego

[keen plover]

I think the way it was in update 5 was decent against Stego. Agile enough to dodge attacks and bait. Bad Stegos struggled. Rn it's a lot easier.

For stegos

3 good Carnos against a bad stego should be possible imo (and it was)

[slim dragon]

I'm telling you
If stego had the exact same stats and the same abilities, but was a carnivore, people would complain that it's too weak

[dusky surge]

true lol

[strong solar]

It would be a decent matchup so it’s fun for both stego and x carnivore (probably Carno)

Having an op creature in any game sucks all around ngl

[dusky surge]

it sucks that we have deino then

because it necessitates stego existing

[strong solar]

Both of them should have honestly waited a few updates

Replace them with a smaller semi and a smaller herbivore

[keen plover]

The thing is, it wasn't impossible for carnos to take down average stegos. The map has been the biggest issue + the amount of diet plants around leading to stegos forming massive herds

A lot of fights as Carno has been a Stego player being in the 'plains' and they use trees

I think with Gateway + Carno changes it will be possible again. If Stegos have to eat more in the open

[strong solar]

spiro is so terrible I can’t wait for it to be gone

[strong solar]

When U5?

[keen plover]

In update 5, yeah. Good Stegos would still roll you, but the players that were average or worse would die in the open

[dusky surge]

god i hope stego gets a buff for the future, its so sad that omnis and even carnos/troodons have such an oddly easy time beating it

it won't stand a chance against any larger predators at this rate

[strong solar]

I hope rex doesn’t become legacy rex 2.0

[dusky surge]

i mean, if it does, it probably won't be super good

legacy rex was mostly overpowered in 1v1s

the moment you grouped up on it, it kinda sucked

[strong solar]

Well taking assriding into account

[dusky surge]

the whole body down rule hard carried many rexes

[strong solar]

fr

[keen plover]

Rex bleed heal lol.

Body down rules should have never applied to apexes

[strong solar]

I wouldn’t worry, if it has trouble it’ll most likely get a buff

Allo, Alberto, and every other carnivore of that size can still get walloped under the fact that tail spikes hurt

you’ll most likely need to go for the head primarily or (with allo) bleed it out

[hollow canyon]

ermmm it has loads of weaknesses in comparison with the animals in its weight-class. It's naturally very strong against anything on the current roster though.

If anything a better question is how a Stegosaurus will possibly survive a T.rex walking up to it and crushing its head, rather than how to make a small game hunter mid tier and a small-ish corpse bully have a go at an animal many times their size.

It doesn't matter whether waiting for bigger predators is a viable strategy or not. You're not going to be hunting Stegos with midgets like the ones we have on the roster rn or even Deino. The devs have said that at best they might remove Stego when they release Kentro into the game.

Stegosaurus has always punched down insanely well in this game. It's also historically struggled against the larger animals that simply overpowered it very quckly.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but who knows maybe they added stego etc. To actually get the balance how they wanted. And to have a better idea when the bigger guys comes how to balance them etc.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

This is just a carni buff list

[obtuse ocean]

I wrote what he said about omni and downvoted lol

[slim dragon]

Buff every carni
Nerf every herbi
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be

Imagine stego needing 3 body hits to kill a carno

Or 2 headshots

[obtuse ocean]

Christ, how many hits you would need on allo then lol

[dusky surge]

clearly you need to die to allo

allo hunted stego irl therefor stego is helpless to it

[obtuse ocean]

ahh correct! should actually one shot the stego : P

[frail bobcat]

Least biased isle player

[hollow canyon]

no, they added it because they wanted it to be AI and since the AI for it wasn't ready they added it as a playable

[obtuse ocean]

Ok, never heard of that. I know stego was gonna be a playable long before the release of evrima tho

[hollow canyon]

I'm not sure what you mean. Stego was initially marked as an AI even on the old roadmap.

[obtuse ocean]

yea, but devs still said it was gonna be playable

Even utah back then was supose to be AI

[obtuse ocean]

Nah, im wrong. They talked about that in update 2 i tho it was before the release, just checked : P So yea i think your correct

[warm shuttle]

Pretty sure the devs said they want apexes to be STRONGER

[strong solar]

When do they plan to release kentro

[hollow canyon]

I do not know if there's a set update for it but it won't be in 6.5 nor in 7.

[strong solar]

This game has a long history of long waits for major updates. That’s why I suggest to tweak the stats to allow for stego to be hunted in the meantime. It’s not a hard stretch to say it can be killed if it takes enough hits to the head either by a massive alligator or enough carnotaurus

It may not be the most paleo accurate thing in the world Ahh small game hunter but it would interact and add to the roster instead of being unstoppable

In the meantime

[hollow canyon]

they won't do it, Stego already has a higher damage multiplier on its head than any other animal

the devs don't care about how the game IS rn

they keep on repeating it

[strong solar]

A shame

[hollow canyon]

they're far further in development on their builds that they're tinkering with and all they care about is putting out all the core mechanics

Idk how long you've played this game

but in 2021 we've had 4 months of a gamebreaking bug

that would delete your dino if you logged out

it didn't matter cause again - it's an early access alpha version of the actual game and there are more important things for the devs than fixing stuff that would make the game more fun to play rn

[strong solar]

I’ve played since v4 but took a long hiatus during the end of legacy and beginning of evrima

They already change around stats every update?

Drastically so

Asking for one (or two if you really want to count deino) of the strongest animals to be brought down a peg so the current game is more fun isn’t much to ask

And while waiting for updates that bring in carnivores or mechanic changes past U7 you can have a somewhat balanced, fun roster

[halcyon elk]

@warm shuttle on what you said about Omni. They're gonna be making an accurate utahraptor

As it's own separate dinosaur from omni

[warm tusk]

Me no liked alt attacks having no stamina cost

[golden coral]

@warm shuttleIf you increase stamina drain by 5%, stego would only have maybe 10 attacks before it's out, if you increased it by 10%, just about 7 attacks, before it'd be almost entirely incapable of defending itself. Not sure if that'd be balanced, compared to everything else. No idea why you think stego would be a glass cannon though, or perhaps more so, sure it would be in some sense, compared to the other large and apex animals, but it's still a 6T, possibly up to 8T sized animal, it'd have a lot of health.

[hollow canyon]

The only significant stat change like what you have in mind happened in 3.75 - August 2021. This was the update when Stego stopped being fodder to everything thing that decided to walk up to it too.

That update took place because the HP pools were all over the place in the game.

[hollow canyon]

it'd be food just like on 3.5 when it had 10 attacks and was getting soloed by Carnos left and right.

[strong solar]

I’m talking about the stat changes that are altered every update. Some examples include allowing 50% deino to run on land, pick up something, and run back to the water. You got the stamina changes, nerfs, buffs, of multiple dinos, dryo getting juke charges and multiple changes (iirc nerf to dryo) and many more

You also got the changes to pachy which made it not as hard-hitting than what it was on release

& a plethora of Carno changes regarding its hunger, stamina, charge and it goes on

[hollow canyon]

those are global changes that were supposed to make subadults better, this wasn't a Deino-specific buff. What you want is effectively to change Stegosaurus into an animal it isn't - one that could be hunted by animals that have no business getting close to it. This just isn't going to happen.

Advocating for a temporary nerf so that an animal is weaker than intended is in vain. It's not happening.

[strong solar]

Because it was released so early and in an ecosystem with these types of animals, partially yes. Stegosaurus is still an animal with a small head that can be targeted during a hunt, again it isn’t out of the realm of possibility and especially within a game. I’d like it to be temporarily huntable in rarer circumstances, i.e large packs, skilled players, deinosuchus. That way the game is more fun and brings a survival experience for both stegos and the other playables on the roster. In its current state stego is just kind of there, it isn’t very fun to play because there’s nothing that can threaten you, and you can just kill everything. Naturally this isn’t very good for a game.

Respectively, you aren’t a developer so I don’t see this feedback in vain. People have been suggesting stego nerfs or changes to these playables because yes it’s weird that they’re in the roster to begin with. Whether it be temporary nerfs or deleting stego from the roster and replacing it with kentro, let’s see what happens

Im just putting out another option that isn’t just waiting for more playables. Don’t worry because even if it can be hunted in rare scenarios it will still be stego

[golden coral]

Deinos can hunt stegos, as can omnis, and apparently troodons. Meanwhile the only thing that can hunt deinos are deinos. Why is it not as fine that the only thing hunting stegos would be stegos?

Should just remove both deino and stego really, at least for now. Neither fit the roster well at all.

[strong solar]

They really don’t

I feel like it’s way too late to change minds about them existing though

would be a waste of development time for them to be removed

[strong solar]

Ehhh can omnis kill a stego in 6.5? Haven’t seen it yet

[halcyon elk]

In my opinion they should've worked on kentrosaurus first. Not stegosaurus

[golden coral]

Yeah, they can, they already can in current version and prior ones. As can deinos.

[golden coral]

Well it was meant to be AI I think

I'd rather they remove deino than stego honestly, at least stego is interactable and huntable, deino is not

[halcyon elk]

It really shouldn't. I'd much prefer to have Kentrosaurus playable as of right now than stegosaurus

[strong solar]

Gotcha

I’ve just never seen it

[golden coral]

It was more so a response to your comment on what they worked on. Stego was meant to be AI, as to why that was worked on first, I have no idea

But that's why we have stego for now and not kentro

[strong solar]

I played stego for a while and was never threatened by omni packs

[halcyon elk]

Well it should have a problem when bary and sucho are brought in. They should not only take players away from deino. But also perhaps they could've have deino on their diet so they can eat the babies

[golden coral]

To be fair, most omnis aren't that coordinated or good at it, but it is very much doable. Especially if you can catch the stego in the open, where it doesn't really have reliable defensive options if there's no terrain to use (for being an animal with flank defense, it really isnt good at its job, but thats what we get with a scorpion stego I guess).

[halcyon elk]

It's usually when Omni players are incompetent and don't know how to Omni properly. Competent packs are scary mfs.

[golden coral]

Also two deinos can maul a solo stego pretty easily, if you prefer to hunt them like that

[golden coral]

Maybe. But full adults would still be untouchable, more or less.

[halcyon elk]

Oh yea. But there'd be a lot less deinos getting to adulthood

[strong solar]

👍

[golden coral]

I'd be fine if we applied that to stego as well. Both of them should be pretty much invincible to current roster, aside from their own kind really.

[halcyon elk]

Meaning the deinos who do survive actually are good at playing the playable. Meaning less complaining of deino mains who don't know how to deino

[thin mantle]

Well no

Because deino reaches sized that render them irrelevant within the first hour of their growth

Also unless bary is the fastest aquatic in the roster it literally won’t be capable of threatening a deino small enough for it to hunt unless the deino has terminal brain damage

Sucho is such a non factor with deinos that I’m confused why they’re ever brought up

It’s a wading defensive fisher

They’re about as relevant to the deino hunting conversation as something like Alberto or allo would be

Whether they’re even gonna be able to dive is still up for speculation

[halcyon elk]

But here's the thing. Most deino players play like they have brain damage

And you could compare bary to a shoebill stork. Going after smaller deinos that are close enough.

[thin mantle]

Not sure how bary and Sucho really threaten deino when their entire effectiveness relies on the deinos being less spatially aware than a headless chicken.
Also threatening small deinos is borderline inconsequential. Adults and subs are the ones requiring harsher conditions.

[rigid tulip]

game waaaay too ambitious for itself

[thin mantle]

@warm shuttle Stego is both a tank, and a tank that hits hard

What’s the issue with it

Stego was never meant to be nor is a glass cannon

[rigid tulip]

the issue is there is no risk in gameplay

teno and omni are high risk, carno mediumish low and stego absolutely none, just temporarily give it a small hp or damage nerf until it has some competition. it just takes up server slots being invincible

[strong solar]

It’s wild that stego’s #1 terrestrial predator are tenos

saw a couple videos of them running in front and kicking them in the head constantly until it died

what an awesome niche

[rigid tulip]

lmao teno vs stego is almost unwinnable for a stego if the teno is good its actually wild

idk how u would fix that tho, what kind of penalties could you give a herb for killing another herb that wouldnt also punish simple self defense?

[halcyon elk]

That would wipe out the idea of ceratopsians being absolute menaces. Which is what the devs want.

[halcyon elk]

For adult gameplay is low risk. But getting to adulthood is the hard part

[rigid tulip]

I agree ceratopsians should have hippo or rhino agression

[halcyon elk]

Though iirc it's mostly avaceratops and triceratops. and avaceratops is an omnivore

[strong solar]

Don’t think it’s possible unless you really hamper gameplay for them

[golden coral]

Can we just put both deino and stego on unofficials, problem solved!

[halcyon elk]

It's basically just a deal with it.@strong solar

[strong solar]

Like for some games you have herbivores have defensive moves so you can’t attack while running

But this ain’t that type of game

[strong solar]

P much

[strong solar]

Wym by unwinnable? Is there hitbox abuse where you can’t hit them?

[halcyon elk]

Also tbh some of the suggestions here can be considered complaining in some way shape or form.

Though a few are what I would consider whining

[strong solar]

Gotta be careful what you consider constructive criticism and complaining

There’s a line between the two and people mess it up all the time lol

[halcyon elk]

My definition of whining is complaining without proposing a solution

[strong solar]

yerp

[rigid tulip]

in my experience u can kinda just snipe their head with ur tail if u have 2 people to surround them and the stego kinda just cant reach a teno if the teno is paying attention and is smart

[small ether]

@mint rain I agree, cerato’s buff does seem kind of out of place compared to every other dino. Might as well give other dinos buffs for playing in their niche, it’s a good point

[mint rain]

Lmao I got downvoted to oblivion. I’d like dinosaurs getting buffs based on niche more than perks.

[unborn iris]

Seems logical, if you can't force a dino to play how you want/need it to play then reward them for playing that way. Almost the same thing.

[frail bobcat]

How about making them just naturally good at in their biome and not give them some weird buff

[unborn iris]

Sure, that sounds good.

Kind of like saying "Why not just make all dinosaurs perfectly balanced." Sounds good. One option to accomplish a dinosaur being "naturally good" in a certain niche is to give an advantage (buff of some sort) while doing so. Doesn't have to be the only option.

[mint rain]

I just don’t understand what makes Cerato so special that it’s the only playable to get a buff like that.

[unborn iris]

It's supposed to be a "corpse bully". It's hard to make it strong enough to do so without making it overpowered everywhere else, unless they give it an advantage around corpses. Maybe they went a little overboard with it, but it seems logical to me. Or at least worth a shot to see how it works out.

[neon willow]

I'm guessing it may not be the only one, it's just the only hyperspecialized dino right now with the current small roster

The other dinos don't really specialize. Carno is supposed to be small game hunter, but is reasonably capable against mid tiers too, Omni is a generalist, etc

Also, troodon also gets a buff, and it is similarly hyperspecialized. They get damage buffs when they coordinate attacks, and without the venom buff they're pretty weak

[vital gulch]

so just to confirm pachy does not stagger anymore right ?? cuz on this patch note saids reduced stagger not remove so just trying to confirm

[tall bronze]

Correct. It only knock downs stuff around it's own size (like Omni). So something like a Carno would just take damage/fracture, but no stagger. c:

[stark knoll]

@quiet peak Alt attacks are now automatic. You can revert to the old controls in the Game Settings by enabling Manual Alt Attacks

[golden coral]

@sterile shell Are you taking into account that omni is a pouncer now, and meant to use that as it's main "damage" and all that? Using legacy as a reference isn't really ideal, since there's more than just bites to use now. Omnis are quite lethal, even more so this update since there's no punishment what so ever on missing pounce and all that, so get a pack and bleed things out. Also I don't believe a deino is meant to 1v1 a stego, neither stego nor deino is considered apexes currently, and will most likely not do well vs rex and trike when they are implemented (well, deino will be fine, it's invincible more or less, after all). And both of them take about the same time to grow, while deino is designed to "punch down" with it's lunge.

[sterile shell]

Ok maybe omni can be good, just felt like the leap from 200-64 was a bit extreme.. also I am comparing legacy to Evrima, as Legacy was the Original game, also with Cera added who can basically ignore the damage an Omni does, with thier new ability.. it still feels like Omni needs a bit of an buff, as there is so many things that will F them up in an fight.

Also Deino's grow is around 6-7 hours.. which was the time it took for apexes before.. and they are very big dinos.. not to mention they have the animation in the main menu that shows an Deino go up against an Rex.. so yea I call them Apex.

[golden coral]

Yes, legacy, or well, progression were the original game. But Evrima is entirely new, and any balance changes does not transfer over from legacy to Evrima. As can be seen with how stego works differently, cerato has a whole bunch of mechanics it does not in legacy, same with omni, as well as the new critters and how they work compared to legacy ones. And well, yes, cerato is not something omnis generall goes up against, I think the idea is that if a cerato wants something, you let it have it, unless you have the numbers and power to make it change it's mind.

Deino grows in about 5 hours with good diet, same as stego, unless something has changed. But this does not relate to if it's an apex or not, since there's far more to that, than sheer growth time. (especially considering how easy it is to grow a deino or stego, not much "apex" about that, though it's even easier in legacy so maybe that doesnt say much to be fair). And no, the only thing it shows is a rex and deino roaring/hissing at each other, they're not fighting, and spino has been said to make deino swim away.

And sure, I'd agree that stego and deino should both be apexes, but powerwise, they're not considered as such, as it stands, compared to rex and trike at least. Or so the devs have stated.

[sterile shell]

Yea.. I can take that if an Cera comes up to an Omni, the omni is most likely not fight back.. again.. Omni to me personally, feels so weak, like even the ones that are meant to be their diet feels way too strong to deal with as an Omni, like Carno, pachy, Teno.. I know an Teno can be easy to deal with if you have number, but that can also work for the Teno themself also.. so they may have the Numbers also, that give them the upper hand against an pack of Omni.
And lets not even start with Pachy.. the bully/A-hole in the game.. Pachy who will start attacking without no warning.

But Sure.. Deino and the rex aren't fighting in the animation, but The Deino is standing up to the rex, so it still feel like they were ment to be apexes.

[golden coral]

Well, considering omni, like troodon, is designed as a pack hunter, it makes sense that you'd want to have at least one other omni with you (for things like pachy or maybe galli, though gallis should be soloable I believe, since you can pin them), and probably 3+ for teno and carno. You're not really meant to solo a teno or carno far as I know. Yes, pachies are ... volatile, but you are faster and more agile, so just keep your distance, they can't really get you if you don't let them.

I don't know, it could just be a cool epic scene you know. Or it's just old, deino has changed from original ideas, such as unlimited growth and stuff. I don't think the deino there is standing up to the rex, just showing up and hissing at it. People like to read into things like that far too much. The fact is, when asked, the devs have stated that they do not consider deino and stego apexes, and that trike and rex will be far more powerful. So, make of that what you will I guess.

[warped wharf]

stego gets bodied by competent raptor packs

[wraith relic]

Alright guys give me one actual good reason Galli shouldn’t be able to oneshot troodons

[dusky surge]

it can if it hits it in the head, and if the troodon doesn't immediately rest it'll bleed to death in one kick

that's more than enough

[odd pebble]

Plus the knockdown, so its basically a 1 shot

[keen plover]

Yeah

It also screws with more matchups

60n kick would be rough

[keen plover]

@near owl Cera is meant to be anti Omni and pretty much all small tiers

Also 2 troodons killing a cera???

It's meant to tank bleed and fractures

[dusky surge]

troodon does perform better than omni at killing ceras, but that's not a bad thing, omni doesn't need every matchup handed to it

remember that an alt-bite on a troodon will end it as a cera

[near owl]

yes, just yesterday my friend and I killing ceras on 2 troodons

[near owl]

it may be made as an anti-omni, but still, everyone should have a weak spot, shouldn't they? after all, it is necessary to somehow compensate for the strengths

I'll tell you in advance, my English is not very good, sry(

[keen plover]

True. However it's in that stage where it's a new playable and in the future we'll see buffs / nerfs to everything.

Carno may end up being a more competent cera hunter

[keen plover]

All good. Don't worry mate

[near owl]

I didn't quite understand how a troodon with alt attacks could turn into a cera...

[dusky surge]

what?

as a cera alt-bite instakills troodon

we both knew what i was saying

[near owl]

well, not really, the difficulties of translating into another language...eh

most likely, the translator did not clearly convey your idea, so I did not understand

[near owl]

true. I can only hope that in the future everything will look better than it is now.

[rigid tulip]

Skill issue u one shot them. Ive never seen raptors kill a stego ever before, only on yt vids with like 8 experienced players in vc. (Besides early evrima where u could basically solo a stego)

[keen plover]

I agree with the Teno take. I wish this thing could run for longer. Really seems to struggle on officials rn against ceratos

Puke locking as well

[keen plover]

10 for both

🫡

[cosmic idol]

please take a look at the cera you get one shot by boars when you fresh, they slow feeble it was my most exciting one to play and i haven't even got to adult yet, also can you stop the automatic 3 call when near a body and leave it to be a choice causes so much issues

[sterile shell]

Ok well that does feel better to know, for both the omni and deino stuff.. I do hope that rex comes into the game soon though.. as I feel like Evrima need an Real Apex predator in the game.. like Legacy had.

[golden coral]

Rex and trike are both i the works, so "soon" I guess, whatever that entails for the Isle :p Though they'll be on unofficials only from what I know, which is probably for the better since they are said to be more powerful than in legacy, and most likely will upset the ecosystem even more than stego and deino currently does. So that should be fun for everyone I'm sure xD

[sterile shell]

Well The Unofficial Servers.. are arguably the best servers.. as there is rules and more semi realism in those then on Offical.

[dusky surge]

i'd argue that makes them the worse servers lol

[golden coral]

@tacit thistle Carno do seem to have gotten a bit undertuned this time around, no real surprise since that's generally how balancing seem to go, from "op" to "up", be it carno, omni, or any other playable really that gets a bunch of changes. As for less AI, probably to make it harder to have larger packs, same for why no cannibalism, so you can no longer sustain your group on your fallen.

[winter iris]

Have patch notes , with the various changes, been released?

[stark knoll]

#announcements

[golden coral]

@winter iris Look in settings, and turn off automatic alt bite

Currently, everything is set to use the alt bite normally

But you can disable that in settings

[winter iris]

@tacit thistle Same old story. Every update generally balance is all over the place. I don’t think carno is as messed up as you’re saying though and it needed some tuning anyway. I agree that, as always happens, devs went a bit too far with carno the same way they went a bit too far in U6 (too strong) and in U5.5 (too weak).

[winter iris]

Thanks, but can’t find the automatic alt bit option. Controls seem to be the same I set up in the past, even if the settings are showing different buttons. I’m a bit confused

[golden coral]

Have you done the whole delete the old Isle folder and all that? Might be that if your controls are not updated.

[winter iris]

Oh yea that’s why then

Thanks a lot mate

[winter iris]

@tacit thistle on one point I’m with you: I can’t really understand the reason of making carno stamina so bad. It has become so bad that carno is now just boring to play, because you’re mainly resting (honestly it seems like the whole game is a bit boring now a bit like U5, but that’s just a first impression)

[winter iris]

It looks like drinking time, at least for carno, has become way longer. I’d say at least twice as long as before

[hearty nebula]

okay.... deino is really boring only way to get fun is being cannibal, deino should be an apex so i got some buffs can make deino more funny first bite force 850N charged bite 1700N in the head 2000N(should be 2.550 but is broken) tail attack he swing his tail to stun dinos(depends on weight if the dino weights less he can escape fast if the dino weight more than 3tons he will be stun for 2.6 seconds next deino is really slow so i think he can get an abilittie who can make deino run 45 km/h for 15 seconds with the cost of the quarter of the stamI t is very fast but that is the point to be able to catch its prey "but it will be very difficult to escape" its turning radius will be the same so if you turn it around it will lose speed and will have to wait 15 seconds to repeat it next if deino bite you he have a chance of fracture to prevent the prey from escaping, also to avoid giant groups of deinos now deinosuchus hatcheri will have debuffs when they have groups greater than 2 bite force drops to 350N charged bite drops to 700N stam consumption by +15% damage received +20% (sorry for the spelling mistakes I don't speak English if you feel it's not very fair you can mark it with an X it's just something I think would improve the deino) TY for your attention 😄

[alpine plover]

@silk bone Teno is meant to fight cerato, not run.

[crimson dock]

Why would a Herbi hunt?

[alpine plover]

^^^^^^

☝️

[dusky surge]

@pearl grove pachy does not need its stun back, it needs something in the way of buffs, I agree, but not that

[pearl grove]

If you break someones bone, why would they not reel back for a moment?

[dusky surge]

a stagger on bone break i can agree with

but a stagger on every hit made it insufferable

[pearl grove]

I would agree with larger animals such as carno or tenonto. Cerato however is smaller in weight and stature.

[dusky surge]

that would quite literally make pachy obliterate cerato

stunlocked into oblivion, it's slower and can't stop it

[pearl grove]

Doesn't stop pachy from doing it to raptors, what makes it so different?

[dusky surge]

raptors are faster

[pearl grove]

and if they get hit they die

[dusky surge]

and they have the ability to not get hit

[pearl grove]

cerato could bite pachy first too

kill it really fast esp. with charge bite

[dusky surge]

well actually it's much harder to kill pachy with charge bite because it has no vulnerable head hitbox

[pearl grove]

as it stands regardless, pachy isn't playable with current dino lineup

it just dies to everything now

same with teno. If you try to kick a cera in the head as teno, you just cant. it's bite cancels the animation for some reason

[dusky surge]

i'd argue increasing it's HORRIBLE trotspeed, improving stamina, etc, just don't bring hack the stuns

[dusky surge]

that's vomitlocking

cera's sceptic bite can cancel all animations

and forces you to be in the whole vomit animation

[pearl grove]

that's not...good

[dusky surge]

it wasn't well liked in ST and it's a shame it went public

[pearl grove]

I get being made to stop animations if you're actively vomiting

but just being locked in place and being forced to become food

[dusky surge]

yea, its not fun

teno v cera needs more attention

i still think it's too cera-sided

pachy needs general love. It fulfils its role of "bully small tier" still with ease, troodons and omnis are still cautious of it, but its low trotspeed, slower sprint and average-ish stamina for its size make it not great at escaping cerato

especially given cerato's fracture resistance

[dusky surge]

@orchid patrol you'd be allowing pachy to stunlock and bully ceratos like it did to tenos in U6 if you return the stun

it'd make cerato almost helpless against any pachy or group of pachies

[orchid patrol]

Than you make pachy helpless against cera, and there would be no point in playing pachy if you can't defend yourself

[dusky surge]

you can outrun cera. If anything, pachy needs a better trotrate and stamina

cerato already has fracture resistance because pachy is meant to run from it

the issue is pachy sucks due to its limited mobility

[orchid patrol]

I would agree the stamina has to be increased, but removing stun is to much. When looking at it match up with carno what is a pachy player supposed to do. The carno can ram it but the pachy can't stun and can easily be killed

[dusky surge]

i've played pachy against carno, not that hard to kill it

the stun is not necessary in that matchup

[orchid patrol]

I disagree. The stun is super helpful in avoding that free bite a carno would get when the pachy headbuts it

[dusky surge]

if you're facetanking a carno, that's your problem

you need to get to the flanks to aim for the legs

the only time you should be trading is when you're aiming for a head fracture

and then a head fracture reduces the carno's damage significantly

this is coming from the experience of facing off against a carno as a solo pachy in this update after the stun was removed

it was easy to fracture and quickly evade

[orchid patrol]

Face tanking a carno is loosing battle for a pachy completly agree. But thats not what Im arguing for.

Are you reffering to only 1v1 battles or a pack of carno vs a herd of pachy?

because thats completely different

[thin mantle]

Wait what are you arguing for then?

Because if Pachy can survive carnos when confronted then…not totally sure what the problem is

Pachy’s main issue rn is that the inability to alt attack while sprinting has crippled its brawl capability

Like it suffers badly against Troodon’s and omnis because the attacks that make it good at fighting both can only be used while trotting or standing still

Carno is more than survivable

[silk bone]

make pachy faster and have more stam

[dusky surge]

idk about faster, unless you mean trotspeed, in which case absolutely

[silk bone]

not much faster but a small speed buff would help make up for the fact it lost a big part of its niche (the stun)

[vital gulch]

Pachy need stun on fractures at least so he is able to stun on the first and 2nd hit and the dino get fracture he is able to escape.. or enjoy cera isle hervis are done..

[dawn falcon]

Honestly wouldn’t mind keeping the previous stun, but just canceling attacks

So essentially you’re removing the stuns ability to freeze your opponent for x amount of time

But keeping the attack canceling part

[dusky surge]

that would still allow it to bully animals like teno with ease

[dawn falcon]

Or just prioritize tenos attacks over Pachys lol

That’s the main reason teno struggled

[dusky surge]

attack priority literally doesn't exist tho

thats not an in-game mechanic

tenos attacks are telegraphed, pachy activates the moment it releases RMB

[winter iris]

I’ve always tried to understand why some people keep using the N unit for playable bite force. If it stands for newton , then it’s just wrong because 200N is equivalent to 20 kgf. Bite force in the game is just related to damage and has nothing to do with physics, so I’d stop using N for bite force, unless it doesn’t stand for Newton

[warm fox]

#balance-feedback message
@raven roost A lot of it plays into lag/desync with the pounce, i've had my pounces occasionally bug me out after hitting someone (but not grasping onto them.) After missing a pounce like that, both Omni and Troodon, my dino gets all jittery and I'm unable to attack/jump except for Pouncing again, which corrects the issue. In that jittery state however, you're desync'd. You can run by cliffs/trees and randomly start teleporting to where the server says you are, making clientside really awkward. I haven't had an issue aside AFTER being on someone though,

[raven roost]

They desperately need to fix their multiplayer/replication. I've never seen a game with such huge rubber banding issues.

[naive furnace]

for all those complaining about a herbi not being able to kill or face tank a large carnivore. This is not a herbi vs carnivore battle sim its a survival sim. A pachy or herbi without a pack would most likely injure and run away. Not try to 1v1 a carnivore unless it was like a omni or a troodon. pick and choose your battles herbis werent ment to have a advantage over a large carnivore.

[dusky surge]

where was this said?

[frail bobcat]

the feature is called desync. did you not read the patch notes? smh

[dusky surge]

if that's a feature, it's terribly conveyed, feels and looks wrong and very much presents itself as a bug

its also just... not great

for gameplay or combat

[vital gulch]

I may get ban for this but i do not care i will said i just want the best for this GAME. The balnce you guys did with Pachy and Teno is TRASH IT IS NOT GOOD. if Cera engage on a pachy with a bite i cant turn to fracture and run because iam dead and if you try to run he out stam you ... Hervis are done this is Cera isle NOT A GOOD BALANCE ..

[dawn falcon]

Herbis are done and yet an adult teno demolishes almost the entire roster 💀

[golden coral]

Maybe you should play for a bit longer before making such harsh judgements. Not saying pachy and teno are perfect by any means, but I doubt it's that hopeless and terrible for them.

[vital gulch]

All you do in this chat is go against anything that is not the narrative you just another poppet with no opinion just shut up and do not replay to me.

[vital gulch]

Get a job and stop wasting people time in this chat everyday go get a life and get out of here you have no critical opition you are A BOT

[frail bobcat]

*reply

[slim dragon]

so edgy

[golden coral]

What? What "narrative"? And no, if you make statements in here, you will get a response to them. That's how discussions work.

[unborn iris]

It's supposed to be my balance-feedback-diary, right?

[frail bobcat]

yes

[golden coral]

But since you don't care for actual discussions, I'll just provide the sentiment that your claim is not very accurate, at the very least is exaggerated, and that both teno and pachy can most likely survive decently. Of course, currently, with everyone going cera/troodon/galli/beipie, it makes sense you'd not see many of the other things (aside from deinos, I'm sure they're still doing just fine). So, give it some time. The same applies to getting used to the new playables, and how to handle them, both as and against them.

[vital gulch]

This guy @golden coral always come with the same shi t sending people to play more the game i have over 1000 hours on this game he does not play the game he spend all hes time here on the chat REPLAYING TO PEOPLE every time u give an opition about the game he always have something to said .. GET A LIFE GET A GIRL FRIEND GET A JOB .

[frail bobcat]

first off all: dont insult thomas the train engine like that! second of all: What about you try to have a discussion before you go on insult mode?

[golden coral]

Your hours in the game does not mean you provide a good argument, or even have the neccesary understanding of the game (since it is quite possible to play for quite long and still not know basic things, mostly due to game not always telling you stuff). Also yes, I do spend time here replying when someone makes some comment I feel deserves a response, be it a good or bad comment. If you don't like that, then that's fine, but that does not "excuse" your statements from being replied to.

[unborn iris]

A life, a girl, and a job seems like they would conflict with a full schedule of discussing The Isle dinosaur balance.

[vital gulch]

Don't talk to me anymore shut up.

[slim dragon]

Can't you people see the poor dude is just trying to get banned

[golden coral]

Not that any of his claims even matter to the situation at hand, unless we believe having either of those things somehow makes your argument better, which I don't think is the case at least.

[fiery mantle]

Dude is telling people to get a job and a life when he can barely spell and is ranting about balance issues in a Dino game discord. He has to be a troll 😂

[dawn tangle]

@lethal shore first wrong chat to be typing in. Second i'm not saying make them stronger at all? I'm just saying allow them to get some diet from other ai sources

[thin mantle]

It’s so easy to get a perfect diet in Cera

I wouldn’t make it even easier the animal should in some part be slightly challenging

[neon willow]

It's an alt. Created Jun 19, joined this discord Jun 19. Also, I happen to know a discord user that went by Hachi got permabanned from the DoD official servers and discord for some kinda disturbing stuff a while ago... What are the odds? So, almost certainly trolling

[dawn falcon]

I like how people keep saying Cerato should be on carnos diet when, no matter what dinosaur it is, the organs will give you nutrients

[warm fox]

Any time I've pulled out an organ, I didn't get any nutrients, pretty sure they're supposed to be on your diet so people still have to "follow" their diet rules but not get punished if no one is playing the other 2 proteins needed. Like I get nothing from killing small deinos as a carno and ripping out the heart.

Since cerato isn't on carnos diet at all, you get nothing from them, and due to the influx of ceratos with how strong they become around corpses, making them absolute bullies for stealing your kills, everyone is a cera so the only thing able to kill them is a deino drowning them, because if a cera has another dead cera body nearby, i've seen them face tank a deino enough to make it flee.

[dawn falcon]

No, any organ should give you nutrients

It doesn’t matter what Dino they are. I don’t remember that aspect being removed in the patch notes?

Unless it’s a bug

[warm fox]

Couldn't tell you, but eating a deino heart gave me nothing lol

I'll find a cera body and let you know but I've already tried, this time I'll just record the scenario

[dawn falcon]

Just tested it. They do infact give you nutrients

Probably was bugged for you

[warm fox]

Got it, i was able to, just sucks that my diet instantly is gone cause i threw up twice mid fight lol

[cinder rampart]

So does anything hard counter a cera?

[golden coral]

Maybe stego, if you don't count the fact that the cera can just avoid it. Or even sort of resist it if it has a deino/stego corpse, though I'd imagine you'd still want 2-3 ceras to contest a stego or deino at that point. Carnos can probably take one out in groups at the least, due to how good charge works when the target is distracted, but aside from that, not sure. Sufficient numbers of anything will work of course, unless the ceras counter with their own numbers. And any corpse will only make it harder to get rid of them.

[cinder rampart]

Perhaps good tenos can deal with them

Issue is as you say, groups and numbers

[lilac sinew]

Quick fights

[golden coral]

I imagine you could, but teno is possibly more defensive than cera, and the moment someone dies, it'll quickly turn in the favour of the ceras as long as they use their buff and don't go chasing the tenos far away.

[cinder rampart]

Good points, Cera feels a bit too good away from bodies right now. Though if nerfed they could end up useless away from them and might not be fun to play. Would need to be really defensive and scare things off with vomit.

It is hard to tell however, a large % of servers are ceras.

[naive furnace]

troodon eggs cooking na 4

[cinder rampart]

I just hope they fix Ceras being able to bite Omni/Troodons on their sides

[naive furnace]

troodon eggs cooking na 4 hmu if u want an egg

[cinder rampart]

Wrong place for this btw, posted this in balance discussion

[naive furnace]

my bad had it wroong space

[mighty haven]

@livid pendant brother just eat the organs

[eager matrix]

yea that would really good

[golden coral]

@mint rain I don't think it's that high, I believe 40-50% or so is the most, at least for current largest body you can get.

[alpine plover]

@orchid patrol you do realize that pachy is faster then cerato

you choice to fight him, and lost.

How is that a balance issue

It sounds like you just want to bully ceratos

[orchid patrol]

I'm not arguing that pachy should be able to bully ceratos, not sure where you that idea from.

My argument is that pachy should have the stun back so it doesn't allow the carnivore in general to get a free bite. Because the trade off when vs both carno & cetao will always be in favor of the carnivores who deal greater damage and have much higher health

[tall bronze]

He got them leg cramps

[latent lotus]

i have also seen people talk about this but, once the pachy got all bones broken it just wouldnt be able to finish the job and lets also remember how inconsistent the bone breaks really are, eighter give all back or nothing

also some dinos take more then one hit at a bone to break it so yeah

also please people make one review at a time, sometimes i agree with the first half and disagree with the secound which is a completly diferent topic and devs please make the cooldown lower

should we just save this for dilo or am i wrong?

[limber delta]

@scarlet onyx maybe different carnivores should be better able to track prey? Cera is a scavenger and carno is an ambusher so they should both have terrible tracking abilities but omnis and troodons are pursuers so should have amazing tracking abilities

[latent lotus]

i agree with that one

[scarlet onyx]

I mean scent range would factor into that anyway which I think is already generally based on size. I think they're better off making footprints update faster for diet-related prey, if anything

Per carnivore might just get too complicated dunno

[latent lotus]

not scnet range, just how many footprints and sharp turns are displayed when ur tracking something

making it per diet is just more complicated as different dinos have different diets, u jus need to make a overhall buff in some carnis

[scarlet onyx]

I'm not sure how making it per diet would be more complicated as its a blanket effect on all things listed in the diet, for all carnivores. Cera is a unique case because its meant to be pretty much a pure scav which I think is the only carnivores that should be discouraged from heavy tracking

[latent lotus]

what do u mean by making it per diet then, i though u were talking about if theres a dino at a carnos diet the carno will track it more easly then what isnt included, if that is what u ment then it is more complicated, its too much atention for all carnis it would be easier to make a overhall buff on the tracking abilities of a dino tracking anything else

[scarlet onyx]

If you're tuning each carnivore to track prey specifically for that carnivore you're dealing with more variables such as how much of a tracker it is in the environmnet it inhabits, its size, how much it needs to hunt while growing, etc.

Instead, If any animal is listed in your diet, that animal's prints will be easier to track for you than a dino that isn't on that diet. No need to tune each carnivore's tracking rates, no tuning needed to be made beyond the fixed tracking rate for anything in the diet.

Look at it like this: If you make it per diet, you only have to tune the tracking once because all carnivores besides scavs share it for their diet.

If you make it per carnivore, you have to tune each carnivore each time a new one is added

[latent lotus]

nope, ur just tuning each carnis to track prey in general which the amont of variables is the same as carnivores in-game. if ur looking at each individual carnis diet and making so that specific carnivore track those specific dinos.. this is just a lot of work

[latent lotus]

they dont.

there are dinos which are present in a carnivore diet and not in another carnivore diet

[latent lotus]

u would also need to mess with it everytime a herb is added

[scarlet onyx]

There is no work to do besides applying the tracking rate to the diets listed already listed. They're not going to decide which one should be tracked, then add it to the diet. That makes no sense. This way it is already written out on what should be trackeable.

[latent lotus]

so u are talking about going into a carnivores diet list and make it track the dinos listed better then the ones who arent. and u belive that it is easier then incrising the tracking efficiency for some carnivores towards overhal prey?

[scarlet onyx]

In terms of design, yes it is. With tuning per carnivore you're testing each carnivore separately in order to assess if the tracking is good enough or too OP for that specific carnivore.

[latent lotus]

design is not that diffucult let me show u

buff onmi, troodon. they are persueir. take it off from ptera and just let alone everything else, maybe nerf cera as it is a scav

also take it from crocs

[latent lotus]

u could aswell make both yknow, like make omni awesome at tracking whats in its diet and leave alone all the other dinos that arent, maybe that would make for more carnivore x herbivore conlicts rather then carnivore x carnivore which is more frequent as they are easier to find and most times to fight, if u take that a lot of herbs are in herds

[scarlet onyx]

What should those differences be? Because the issue you'll end up with is what gets classified as a puersuer, scav, or as just a normal tracker. What gets nerfed and what gets buffed?

And also, all those dinos can be scavenger or persuer during growth, depending on what they have to work with

This is why I say if you blanket all diets with fixed tracking rates then you avoid the issue of classification, you only have to focus on what someone's diet SHOULD be

[latent lotus]

yeah i mean we are talking about adults here, this could just scale up as the dino growths and gets closer to be what a adult of that dino is. and thats kinda why we have different dinos, to have each one favoring a specific playstyle, that doesnt mean theyr restict to that, just that theyr good at it and players should go after a dino that suit theyr playstyles better

[latent lotus]

idk dude. like buff the amount of footprints and those things that signal where the dino went more often?

[scarlet onyx]

Or, to avoid all of that micro tuning and unneeded development they could set a fixed tracking rate on what applies to your diet. It'd be cool if we could get to the point of having scav and pursuer scaling on trackng but I think we're a long way from that

Until we have a much bigger roster I don't think its worth worrying about coded classifications like that

[latent lotus]

yeah but the diets make it theyr selfs. dinos will focous on theyr diets prey because it is on theyr diets. u dont need to favor only that(track wise) for people to start killing them, if u just buff a dinos tracking itll use it to track everything and itll focous on its diets because it is on its diet

[latent lotus]

like bro they just dropped 4 new dinos how is buffing some of the carnis tracking any hard, they mess the balance everytime its not that different!

[latent lotus]

like just do this

[latent lotus]

this just makes it that easier

[hollow canyon]

@unkempt glacier Carno is trash rn, you're making your life hard by playing it. It was kind of bound to be like that since it was completely broken and overpowered last update. I'd suggest waiting for next update with playing it.

[unkempt glacier]

yeah it's super trash, it can't stand up to even a single cera because as soon as it bites you ur carno vomits everything and suddenly ur starving worse than before lmao. am waiting for the next update with fingers crossed

[bright briar]

It can, you need to adapt and ambush from bushes now. Carno has the best chance to win over the cerato. It is worse, but not trash. Its a challenge to play a carno for sure. I personally prefer carnos to have a challenge rather than steamrolling everything like on the last patch. It feels like a survival game now playing a carno. It just needs a little adjustment like for example the stamina usage while charging.

[dusky surge]

carno is pretty trash, especially since an animal so poorly designed for ambushing can only ambush to stand a chance of winning any engagement

[fresh laurel]

What exactly was carno overnerfed in exactly?

[dusky surge]

stamina, mainly

[unkempt glacier]

i don't mind having to put up a real fight, it's super rewarding! there's just parts of carno that is frustrating atm. the boy has asthma now and can't run for long despite being 'king of the plains/open fields'.. and any time i fight a cera, even if i manage to knock 'em down, they get back up, bite once, and suddenly i'm at 10% food and water and i'm bleeding like a b (tho that'd be less of an issue if the devs actually gave us wallowing back ofc) and even my stam gets nerfed and i have no choice but to run 😭

[fresh laurel]

should be a easy fix?

[unkempt glacier]

and even after that comes the PRAYING that they don't run me down and off me lol. it just feels like a really weird match up, especially if they get that chuff buff

[keen plover]

They pretty much said NO to carno having any follow ups

Every update the knockdown timers have progressively shortened.

It also has no acceleration

[dusky surge]

the issue i have is they still have yet to nerf the thing carno raelly needs nerfed, that insane charge damagfe

[keen plover]

And the alt bite changes

[unkempt glacier]

what were the alt bite changes?? i use alt bite to win most of my fights

[keen plover]

Can't run, charge a creature, then alt bite to anchor yourself on them

to get even more bites

[fresh laurel]

nah they 10/10

deino is pro rn

[unkempt glacier]

oh damn what. that explains why i've been struggling when charging successfully

[keen plover]

Also acceleration changes means that once you go past a target, you can at most get 1 bite, but you're probably getting hit

[unkempt glacier]

sounds like they have a lot of trouble properly balancing out carno hm

[fresh laurel]

omni had it worse

was op mostly, then fodder, and then op, and etc

[hollow canyon]

it should've been an easy fix last update too and yet...

[fresh laurel]

This is why we should just replace every playable with herrera and call it a day 🥱

[hollow canyon]

that they do

[dusky surge]

issue is Spiro map design + carno being a very specialist animal

carno and deino are in similar boats of being hyperspecialised

and both are reliant on the map more than other creatures

Spiro plains, for instance, are hilly, covered in bushes and generally hard to keep focus on a single target on, thus, carno does poorly as a pursuit hunter, but can be designed as an ambusher to take advantage of the many line of sight blanks

Gateway plains are far more open and flat, making them pretty terrible for any ambush hunting carno

[hollow canyon]

I really don't think it's any "reliant on the map" stuff, Spiro isn't screwing Carno over. Carno is just bad. Its stats are bad, specifically everything regarding its movement.

There's not a single map where the current carno would perform well.

[dusky surge]

this is true, but Spiro is enabling this kind of horrid design

carno's been too viable as an ambush predator

[hollow canyon]

I don't disagree but I'm relatively sure the people here would riot if it was good at running smaller things down

[keen plover]

Don’t particularly blame them. Growing is very easy. So we’d just see everyone hop onto Carno. I do want Carno to do that though

[dusky surge]

Again, Gateway (and a few better design concepts) could help. Omni being able to scramble up small trees in the plains means it can escape a carno quickly, for instance. On top of that, the general habitability of forests, accessibility of water as a complete chase-ender against carnos and more make it that said hunts are far less viable

That and seperating those who cannot adapt to such an effective carno out of carno's hunting ground (for instance, putting pachy in highlands and coastals rather than open plains environments)

[limber delta]

Carno isn’t bad. It’s the fastest creature by far, yet has enough strength to actually fight. Ever since long before legacy stopped updating carno was always designed as an extreme specialist. We’ve just grown too used to it being a generic jack of all trades carnivore in evrima. When something like allo comes out all the old carno mains can go to it

[dusky surge]

carno is def bad

i really cannot emphasise enough how terrible it is

speed is not all that is needed to be labelled a good animal

yes, it's fast, but it has so many weaknesses that mean that speed is overshadowed by its flaws

[slim dragon]

carno main ^

[dusky surge]

not even mentioning the fact that its current design contradicts most of how it's been represented by the developers

it's a small-game hunter that struggles against small-game and primarily finds home killing off the bully animal which is much bigger than most of its primary preferred prey options

its charge does too much damage yet is far too punishing to even activate, its agility is far too poor, its stamina/endurance is laughable, its environment works to betray any semblance of decent playstyle

[dusky surge]

and having it that "allo comes out and no one plays carno because allo is carno but done better" is not particularly something i look forward to

allo should be a different animal from carno, it should not feel like it's a superior generalist, plains hunter, ambusher and basically everything all in one

when you have animals as specialised as carno, you need to ensure that its designed to operate effectively in that environment

[slim dragon]

I'm thinking if carno had a tiny stomach, it would be a good thing to compliment its niche
Easy to fill up on small animals, but killing something big isn't useful because you won't be able to eat all of it
Would also justify why its hunger drain is so fast

[dusky surge]

carno is to plains as herrera is to forests or deino is to rivers

[dusky surge]

i agree, fast hunger drain, small stomach

[slim dragon]

Also when are we getting a good diet/food system

[dusky surge]

Specialist carnivores are very rare, but we're shockingly getting most extremely soon

Herrera is one of the last 3 major specialists

As in, an animal that only can function within one specific biome and suffers outside that biome

Every other animal is usually more generalist or adaptable

[limber delta]

That’s not my point. My point is that being the fastest runner in the game comes at a hefty price, and if you don’t want that, then play allo. You’re playing a cheetah, not a lion.

[frail bobcat]

@gloomy hound what is the point of editing your suggestion?

[dusky surge]

You aren't even playing a cheetah

A cheetah is nothing like a carno beyond speed

Cheetahs use their small frame, uniquely coloured fur and high speed to ambush prey in dense grass areas

Carnotaurus, quite literally translated to "carnivorous bull" is loud, obvious and lacks the agility of a cheetah, it rushes down its opponent and is beaten out by agility until the prey item escapes to an area it isn't suited to (water, dense foliage, trecherous cliffs)

The fastest runner in the game should have complimentary design to your speed

However, carno feels like running is the most risky thing you can do

Stamina is such a scarce resource that the runner is afraid to run unless the time absolutely calls for it

[limber delta]

Wow! Almost like a cheetah 😨

[dusky surge]

Which it shouldn't be

[limber delta]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

[golden coral]

Except you're playing a cheetah that is extremely weak and more likely to be hunted by the things it should hunt than the other way around from what it seems like. Oh, and you also actually suck at pursuing your prey, because we can't have a carno that is good at hunting the small game.

[limber delta]

Also, brevity is the soul of wit

[dusky surge]

Or I can express my thoughts to you with detail in a way I'm sure you can understand

[golden coral]

Carno is just all around questionably designed, and doesn't seem to have a good purpose. It's said to do one thing, while being terribly designed for it, its said to hunt some things, but it's borderline incapable of hunting them well and can in some cases be hunted by them instead.

[dusky surge]

This isn't a battle of wits, this is a dinosaur balance discussion

[limber delta]

So you want carno’s stamina back, then I guess we can balance it out by bringing its speed down to 40:)

[dusky surge]

no

[frail bobcat]

no

[slim dragon]

no

[dusky surge]

how does that make remotely any sense?

what a bizarre jump to another logical extreme

[limber delta]

Since you want the privileges of carno without any of the drawbacks

[golden coral]

Why would we bring the speed down, the carno is meant to be one of the fastest. I guess most people want to to actually be able to chase things.

[remote aspen]

Right now a cera literally runs it down. Making it slower with more stam would make it a very bad cera. Where is the point in that?

[golden coral]

Which is well, what carno should do.

[slim dragon]

He didn't talk about having no drawback
The privilege of carno is to be able to kill smaller things
The drawback is that it must focus on smaller things
Currently it's designed wrong for doing its purpose

A nerf to charge damage would make more sense

[dusky surge]

okay, i want the stamina increased. The drawbacks that remain are still its pisspoor agility, lengthy acceleration, low damage for its size, weakness to bleed, complete hydrophobia, so on

I'd also wish for the charge damage to be reduced because it is an absurd attack that completely betrays any chance of an interesting carnivore

[remote aspen]

Thats not true at all. With more stam Carno would still have other issues:
Fast hunger drain
Trouble to follow anything in the woods etc
You can still escape a Carno but it would have much better chances to actually hunt

[golden coral]

Turn charge into a tool to catch the small, agile prey that's supposed to be terrified of carno, to then finish them off with bites. Allow it to maybe not skid when landing a charge, so it stays right there for the follow up. Limit the knockdown range to smaller animals, and limit the damage. Keep, possibly even buff damage on bite, give it good stamina for chasing/using charge to pursue, but require charge to have a bit of acceleration to use, which is fine since if charge is done properly, it can be used in the open as it were, and still be dangerous to the targets.

[limber delta]

Its privilege is also being much faster than things literally a fraction of its size. We’ve seen constantly that unless it’s weak enough to make it hard to play, carno players benefit from too much of its kit

[dusky surge]

and then you turn

and the carno has lost the chase

[golden coral]

You mean the carno is good vs the things it's meant to "oppress"? Strange... that seems like it should be you know :p

[limber delta]

Funny you say that after they buffed its turn

[slim dragon]

It's not "also" that's part of it
If carno wasn't fast it couldn't catch small things

[dusky surge]

U6.5 nerfed its turn wdym

[limber delta]

Not since u5

[dusky surge]

its turn is horrid atm

[limber delta]

Comparatively

[remote aspen]

Even if it can catch up to a Utah or smth, it is pretty easy to outturn it . You still have a good chance to escape into the woods

[golden coral]

I wish we could have tested U6 carno with just fixed hitbox and slightly longer runtime to use charge (since no need for point blank charges if we're going pursuit carno), and then adjusted from there.

[dusky surge]

yea, same

i liked many of the design ideas of U6 carno, it was betrayed by that horrid bug

i actually am a fan of a new accel though, it keeps carno away from ambushes and forests, although it still needs more power to compensate

[thin kernel]

anyone know if cera being able to bite utah while latched is a bug or intended?

[dusky surge]

this carno cannot be allowed on Gateway, or it's dead

[thin kernel]

as it stands cera feels really unbalanced to play against

[dusky surge]

doubt its intended

it looks janky as sin

[thin kernel]

espically when 70% of servers are cera

[golden coral]

Not sure, probably a bug, but it would be interesting if there are animals that just can remove a pouncer with an attack (stego should be able to, as should kentro, and maybe bary or something possibly). But cerato does not strike me as an animal that would have that kind of reach to do so.

[limber delta]

I think that’s just because its only recently come out, the exact same thing happens with every dino release

[golden coral]

Yeah, populations will probably even out a bit, but I'd imagine deino, omni, troodon and cera will be the main popular playables that are actually good, with the rest ranging from played to not played at all. Beipi and ptera will most likely do fine, as might galli, they have their uses and beipi seems pretty fun at that. But for the rest, no idea how well it'll go for them.

[dusky surge]

yea, not looking good for pachy, teno or carno atm

[limber delta]

Galli and carno will still be around a lot

[dusky surge]

at least the population will be a little more diverse than the hellhole that was U6

i dont doubt galli but carno is already rare as hell in my experience

[golden coral]

Maybe, maybe not. I think galli won't be quite as popular, depends on if it is overtuned or not. Carno, teno and pachy I don't see doing well at all, aside from mega groups maybe at times.

[slim dragon]

Well if it can only feed off cerato, no wonder why...

[thin kernel]

yeah they still feel really over tuned, im not one to complain about balance usually but utah vs carno and utah vs cera are not even remotely close, carno kill is way to easy and cera kill is way to difficult (pack of 3-4, not solo utah)

[limber delta]

Gallis will probably be everywhere since they’re the only mid tier herbi that isn’t literally unplayable right now. I’m already seeing it

[dusky surge]

galli is fun and is basically better at being carno than carno. Its higher stamina, high bleed and powerful attacks make it REALLY good at kicking and killing smaller animals. Ironically, if you upscaled galli to make it carno-sized, it'd be better at fulfilling that role (subtracting stuff like the call boost of course)

[frail bobcat]

cera is meant to wipe the floor with omnis, so I can understand that

[golden coral]

That seems somewhat accurate yes, which is really strange.

[dusky surge]

seriously try playing galli as a smaller carno

its so genuinely effective at fulfilling that role

[thin kernel]

understandable but cera shouldnt be able to out stam utah in a footchase

[slim dragon]

I'm suddendly thinking
Since carno's whole gimmick is being fast, shouldn't its diet affect its speed like galli ?

[dusky surge]

ehh

[frail bobcat]

gonna try it, once the fatal errors are fixed

[dusky surge]

let's be honest, tying carno's primary hunting tool to diet would be uh

painful

[slim dragon]

You wouldn't like a mechanic to exist just for ONE playable, would you ?

[dusky surge]

i mean

i don't see anyone else dolphin diving

[golden coral]

No, because I would argue that carnos "gimmick" isnt only speed

[frail bobcat]

what about rex?

[dusky surge]

honestly, running kicks with galli have already been done, so a running headswing that replaces the regular bite would actually not be entirely unwarrented

[golden coral]

However, what if it's diet affected charge turn radius or normal turn radius (normal movement modes), build for pursuit charge small game hunter, or slightly better "fighter" but turn the charge more into "ambush"?

[slim dragon]

This sounds more like perks honestly
Also I'm not sure why you would want to turn the charge into ambush

[golden coral]

I wouldn't personally, it was more so based on the idea of charge being your small game hunting tool, and thus the "option" is slightly better movement in general to "brawl" things like teno, like carno used to, since people do seem to have liked that too.

But yes, it's closer to perks probably :p

So basically, you'd either be a carno that's an outright terror to anything small and agile, or far worse vs that but you can take on things your size or so slightly better instead somehow. Something like that at least

[slim dragon]

hmmm

[golden coral]

:D

[strong solar]

against a solo cera its pretty possible to bleed it out

was utah in a pack of 4-5, bled out one cera (over two cera bodies, they had body buff) and nearly bled out 2 ceras in a 2v5

[thin kernel]

yeah pretty easy to take out bad cera's

[strong solar]

what makes em good

[thin kernel]

as utah ive taken out a few cera's but it was pretty clear they werent very good.

cant say for sure but can def tell when someone understands the match up vs someone who doesnt

[strong solar]

unless its impossible to take out a good cera I feel like what its at rn is fine

people that understand how to fight and do it well usually win fights yknow, not exclusive to cera

the overtuned part is that body buff 80% damage reduction (not sure if it helps with bleed res but it looks like it doesnt, just damage)

[thin kernel]

idk i read somewhere that it includes bleed resist as well which is kinda nuts imo if true

[strong solar]

I bled out a cera in 6 minutes when they were over 2 bodies, not sure if bodies stack the buff

but I dont think it does anything with bleed res

6 minutes is pretty average for bleeding out yeah? not sure

[thin kernel]

dont think it stacks

yeah 6 mins seems fine

but def not in my experience

[strong solar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77HAHufU1OA heres the video of it

[thin kernel]

some kills have taking 30-40 mins with contant pounces

[strong solar]

I wasnt playing the best but whatever it works

[strong solar]

my god what

[thin kernel]

yeah

[strong solar]

were they over a stego body or something

[thin kernel]

no running through the woods in a chase lol

wish i had it recorded

[strong solar]

thats kind of odd, doesn't really line up to what ive experienced

[thin kernel]

he was bleeding the whole time too because we were tracking it inthe woods

[strong solar]

Is there a diet that has bleed resistance

[thin kernel]

oh that is true

[gleaming karma]

This is the worst cera I have ever seen lmao

[warm fox]

Depends on the size of the body, haven't watched your vid yet but small bodies like Omni i've noticed affect outcomes of cera vs carno even if carno lands a ram or two, but without a body, a single ram+face tank and carno can win the fight if it isnt stunlocked over and over throwing up in a 1v1 in my experience since I've killed a couple. Cera-carno body+ seems to max out the reduction since you seem to have a little bar to show how much you have. Testing not done but just anecdotal experience, the Hexagon bordering the sound icon when you're chuffing fills up as you're near bodies, bigger bodies fills up the hexagon further, by a carno body seems to max out and allowed me to fight off a deino until it grabbed me and moved me off the body.

[strong solar]

I see

In the video it’s 2 cera bodies

Thing is that cera didn’t do a whole lot of chuffing so maybe the meter wasn’t properly filled up

[warm fox]

At teh start he was chuffing pretty heavily, seems to be based on drag weight or how full the body is since the hexagon drains whenever I eat bodies. Couldve been decomposing as the fight went on and lowered the damage reduction

He also spam bite and 3 called to cancel his chuffing so thats another thing

[livid spindle]

@meager timber Mainly due to the decline of cera's eating AI animals, cera gets about 6% satiety from wild boar, while carno can get about 13% satiety from wild boar, which makes it difficult for cera to eat AI animals.

[meager timber]

no, no my suggestion is to nerf depletion of hunger, idc about his satiety from corpses its just that his hunger drains fast af

[livid spindle]

I think all carnivores should have a longer hunger time, especially those carnivores who are slower, so that they can last longer when they get enough food at a time.

For example, 45 minutes, the stomach can hold 800 kilograms of food → 90 minutes, the stomach can hold 1600 kilograms of food.

Carnivores keep their present appearance when they are young, so they need to eat food regularly to prevent AFK, and when they grow up, they will increase the capacity of their stomachs so that they can last longer after each full meal.

[cinder rampart]

Do you guys think changing how blood trails work is a good idea? RN it's just random splashes every so often instead of an actual blood trail.

Or would this make bleed too good and too hard to escape?

[latent lotus]

@remote aspen if u crouch the chuff stops

[thin mantle]

Blood tracking is already pretty stupid easy so not sure on that one

Plus random drops of blood is typically how blood trails look

It’ll only look like a “trail” if the animal is being dragged on the ground to create a smear

It’s usually not just a continuous dump

And the blood drops aren’t random they’re effected in frequency by how much bleed damage the target has

[cinder rampart]

Fair enough

[distant torrent]

@mighty haven I couldn’t agree more. I find it absolutely absurd. last night I had to log on a rock because a gang of 4 ceras had me pinned on it for over 20 minutes. ceras. the supposed scavengers. there wasn’t anything that could be done because ceras can easily outstam tenos and pukelock them

with that pukelock, there’s absolutely no chance of fighting back. I’d argue that it’s just as bad as pachy’s previous stunlocks

[mighty haven]

tbh balance was disposed off this patch

[dusky surge]

i disagree

balance is better this patch than many of the prior patches

U6 is 3x worse than what this is

[mighty haven]

thats cap

[dusky surge]

Is it perfect? No. Is it the worst it's ever been? Not at all

[mighty haven]

you know what ima make the whole list

[dusky surge]

The worst thing this patch is Cerato, and that's because people kept complaining it was underpowered while not playing the actual Stress Test

And carno got shafted

[latent lotus]

nope, what really happened is carno got nerfed to the ground just like pachy, cera would be for a nice balance last patch

[dusky surge]

pachy didn't get it half as bad as carno

but yes, it also needs love

[tall bronze]

Pachy seems pretty okay in my experience :3 Though I find it difficult to tell if I fractured or not outside of seeing limping n' such. The sound seems always the same 😮

I still find it funny Hypsi was almost entirely forgotten

[dusky surge]

all i'd want is a stam buff and staggers on fracture as a universal change

if i fall from a cliff and break my leg i would be somewhat staggered

[tall bronze]

Oh the stam buff reminds me.....I hate it's trot

It's like if I trot, I am super slow. If I run, I lose stam which I need for rams ;o; but yes a stam buff would be nice

[mighty haven]

damn i have to remake my whole message💀

[dusky surge]

yea exactly

both teno and pachy need more runtime imho

that'd be a good start to actually balancing them

carno needs a whole-ass new rework for Gateway living and generally being okay

[mighty haven]

💀 changes:

Omniraptor clown fiesta: no stuns on missed pounces basically allows for a good utah pack to obliterate anything that has got a metric ton of health or bleed resist. this changes basically makes pounces a win win option for utahs allowing even for packs consisting of mostly bad players to just spam their way to victory against creatures like carno or teno if they dont abuse terrain or anything else.

Pachy Braindamage: No stuns on rams, while it doesnt make him unplayable it does make him feel incredibly gutted, you basically get punished for hitting your attacks because you will always trade some health and blood just for actually hitting your attack.

carno wobbleman: The stam. This one is personal i not too long ago just lost a full grown carno to a pack of 6 utahs from the simple fact they spammed me to death. i killed 3 but it didnt matter cause if one missed a pounce by the time i turned to face it, it was gone and i was pounced by another, very skillfull indeed.

Bucking: let me get this straight you "buff" pounces so they dont stagger anymore and in the same breath nuke the counter??? plz make it make sense.

cera ultraman: plain busted when near decently sized body and basically permacounters stam based playables like teno (also a bit to agile imo)

alt attacks: No moving alt attacks for what reason??? and no stamina cost either, so you just get free omnidirectional attacks got it. (troodon on suicide watch).

deino: kinda got shafted against stego not much too say.

[tall bronze]

If I see one more "well it's an ambush predator so-" I'm going to be

disgruntled

[mighty haven]

i think thats all

[dusky surge]

deino is fine, it's still one of the most powerful animals

[tall bronze]

Deino has invisibility and the right-click-o'-death >:c

[mighty haven]

cant even take a stego with 2 cause they removed the stun lul

[dusky surge]

yea and i dont really see how that's a huge problem lol

we now have omniraptors, ceras and troodons that are better equipped at killing stegos

[mighty haven]

you dont think its an issue that 2 8 tons animals cant reliably face 1?

[dusky surge]

no

[mighty haven]

even when its near their enviroment

[dusky surge]

if they're clearly not designed to do that

also 2 deinos can still kill a stego

if they're not bad

[mighty haven]

brother the only thing that was saving deinos was the lunge stun, theres no shot in hell an aware stego is dying

[tall bronze]

Deino needs the Dryo dodge treatment redo it c:

[mighty haven]

wait wait im curious

[tall bronze]

🏊‍♂️

👍

[dusky surge]

aware stegos shouldn't be dying to deinos i fail to see the issue

most apexes shouldn't be dying to deino if aware

[mighty haven]

gotcha croc just supposed to watch stego on edge of riverbank

[dusky surge]

... yea

[mighty haven]

reasonable gameplay based take

[tall bronze]

You don't have to fight them

[dusky surge]

same with stuff like trike or rex

[mighty haven]

stego isnt even an apex

but go off

[dusky surge]

neither is deino

[tall bronze]

Oh no, tiers again, 🚪 🏃‍♂️

[mighty haven]

true

[dusky surge]

in a similar vein, deino should struggle at killing paras, acros or suchos if we wanna go on tier technicalities

[mighty haven]

but stego should feel like he can just camp another huge creatures territory withaout fear

[mighty haven]

wont even try bother discuss stuff thats not even in game

[dusky surge]

somewhat a problem with Spiro, somewhat a problem with other factors

[mighty haven]

are the para , across and suchos in the room with us?💀

[dusky surge]

with Gateway, water will be basically uncampable lol

far too wide and deep for a stego to reasonably camp anything

[mighty haven]

i hope so

[dusky surge]

(although camping water on Spiro is already kind of a funny concept)

i've never seen a deino die to a stego without being the one to cause that death

be it walking way too far onto land, attacking very obvious bait or so on

[mighty haven]

thats interesting, while its true deino is usually the one to iniatiate the fight, that doesnt mean that stego simply swipes in its general direction, while deinos before had to atleast coordinate with another to lunge stun and constantly alt bite the head. But you cant even do that now so who cares. Stego on top i guess.

[dusky surge]

stego being threatened by deino has always been ridiculous

it used to be the case

and deinos went completely unchecked and ruled all land biomes

nothing could kill or interact with it

[mighty haven]

what??

[dusky surge]

yea

[mighty haven]

oh when alt bite didnt cost stam?

but even then

[autumn scroll]

So I try to join a world even with 0 players but it keeps saying the server is full. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[mighty haven]

stego clapped it on land'

[dusky surge]

back when alt-bite didn't cost stam and stego had pathetic health and you could headshot stego through its body

if you knew how to alt-bite spam, you could literally hit the head hitbox through its body

omnis, carnos and deinos all clapped stego

[mighty haven]

yeah i remember now

[mighty haven]

this is not true

[dusky surge]

if 4 raptors pounced a stego at once it would die

[mighty haven]

cmon bruh

dont go overboard

[dusky surge]

wdym cmon that's literally true

[mighty haven]

no its not

[dusky surge]

i can find a video of people literally showing it

[mighty haven]

let me see it

unless i have dementia

[dusky surge]

i gotta find it, it's old as

[mighty haven]

4 raptors wouldnt to anything

[dusky surge]

https://youtu.be/wZwpTyAEAgE?t=145

found it

literally 4 raptors pouncing it = dead

[mighty haven]

ahh update 2 bs

[dusky surge]

and U3

[mighty haven]

hmmm

[spring quartz]

Quick question, does anyone know why the normal Utah bite was taken away ? Left click and alt bite are the same now, which makes it extremely painful to try to get organs out of bodies

[dusky surge]

it wasn't, you have to swap to manual alt-bite

its in gameplay options

[spring quartz]

Oh I'll check that out , didn't know about that

Thank you!

[mellow zenith]

The auto alt bite in the front is a weird decision. I get it for the other direction (especially behind you) but the fact that it overwrite the normal bite no matter the angle is really bad.
Well at least you can change it in the option

[rigid tulip]

Completely agree with the teno take, buff the hell out of it

[dusky surge]

@karmic lynx "And the puking mechanic should not be instant but instead have a %age that gets higher and higher the more you get hit with the bacteria, (can put in diet, blood and health in this calculation too to make it more interesting) this would however combat fullpacks doing facetank strat on everything leaving them no chance of survival."

This is how it already works, it scales based on stomach contents

Less stomach = less bacteria needed

More stomach = more bacteria needed

[dusky surge]

@warm mango i feel like stego needs a buff with trike and rex around more than deino would

[warm mango]

It maybe more balanced to buff them both on unofficial

I’ve played stego a decent amount and hordes of adult deinos don’t even bother to attack me

[dusky surge]

deino isn't comparable to a rex

a rex will straight up trot down a stego without even sprinting based on what we know about it

[rigid tulip]

Nerf stego rn slightly and buff both stego and deino once we have apexes

[dusk sand]

what did yall do to my carno? 😦 it takes 3 minutes to rest my stam back up! and suddenly ceras have all the diets and carnos have limited diets? aw man 😦 can we maybe at least get our stam regen back..? Edit: I lied, I just fought some ceras and had the best match up I’ve had in this game EVER. I love it!

[bright oasis]

@undone hill you can kill the cera, eat the organs and then the meat to fill your stomach. Just because the meat doesnt give diets doesnt mean it's a useless kill.

[undone hill]

ik that but its still dumb what if 3 carno hunt 1 cera then there not enough food for everyone

[obtuse ocean]

thats the point? Its hard to substain a big pack

[bright oasis]

Then keep hunting or die from lack of food. Failure happens in survival games all the time

Theres enough food but not enough nutrients

Find more nutrients then

The devs have even said starvation is gonna be more of an issue in the future. So adapt now or have a bad time later

[kindred knot]

kann man den CaRNOS WIEDER VERNÜNFTIGE AUSDER GEBEN DANKE

[gleaming junco]

I dont know why people complain about being killed by a stego after dismount as utah you can literally go further by looking in a certain direction which gives enough distance to survive

[undone hill]

unless you get prefired but thats your fault for being pridictable

[vital gulch]

Pachy need stun on fracture at least you cant go and fracture a Carno to escape without getting bite on your head.

[undone hill]

if its stun on fracture then they will run to your left and instant leg break thats why it was so op last pach also hedshots on pachy do less damage anyway

[vital gulch]

stun on fracture once after that no more

[crimson echo]

I actually didnt know this ty

[dapper flint]

curious if anyone knows anything about the reset vr keybind now available?

[gleaming junco]

exactly

[gleaming junco]

i can show you what i mean with a screenshot if you want

there is 2 spots i know of that you put your camera in to keep a utah safe from all types of stego attacks

unless you dismount uphill which would make you go less distance

[crimson echo]

if u dont mind

[gleaming junco]

when i next do some testing ill show you probally later today

[crimson echo]

well its like 4am for me rn

[slim dragon]

@gray summit A 80% damage reduction would be 6500 effective health, 2600 is for 50% damage reduction (which is already a lot)
I'm not sure where that "80% damage reduction" comes from, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't go that high
If it does, something is definitely wrong

[gray summit]

with a teno carno or cera body it would be 2600, but 6500 is just too much

[dusky surge]

came from a random video, never confirmed to be factual

testing would point us to it being 50%, not 80%

[gray summit]

it it as atleast 50% because i tested it

[dusky surge]

it's 50%, sure

but i've never seen 80 or anything of that level

[slim dragon]

That's math

A 80% damage reduction on a 1300 kg animal is 6500 effective health

[gray summit]

6500 for stego

stego bodies and deino bodies create 6500

[dusky surge]

stego has 6000HP if that's what you're saying

i haven't seen that

[gray summit]

the rest are only 2600

[keen plover]

No?

The cap is a 50% damage reduction

[gray summit]

was it changed?

[dusky surge]

no

[keen plover]

It was never 80%

[dusky surge]

it was never 80%, idk why people are taking this number like it's fact

there's only one video on the entire internet saying it's 80%, and that video is not perfectly researched and not made by anyone with any actual info from the devs

[gray summit]

after i got hit by a stego it only did a third of my health, might have been a tail shot. it looked like it contacted my body and i did the math, it came to be roughly 80%

it could be desync, so i will redo that

[slim dragon]

If it was a body hit with 80% damage reduction it would have taken about 1/6th of your health

[gray summit]

i was not an adult cera at that time

ill redo it

[dusky surge]

i dont like it because it just kinda makes kentro irrelevant

i still think stego will need some kind of option like that in the future though, help it face off against the real big boys like rex without being outright fodderised

keeps the rex away from its face, but that's not the point, i don't want a shoulder bash

it needs new attacks tho

a walking tail swipe would be nice, rather than just the jab

i mean a swipe/sweep

not a full commital jab like it does now

that would not be hard to do for the stego

the jab obviously doesn't make sense while moving

but a sweep does

helps keep things off your ass while still moving

yes but against a rex

or other pursuing predator

[cosmic pelican]

Isnt rexs trot faster than stego running? Or something like that

[dusky surge]

it's VERY close

rex easily trots down stego

[cosmic pelican]

So in theory the rex can just trot down the stego even if it runs

[dusky surge]

EVRIMA

[cosmic pelican]

And stego cant stand and fight because... it cant

[dusky surge]

yep, since a rex trot is slightly slower than a human sprint, and a human sprint is slightly slower than a stego sprint

[cosmic pelican]

Devs said it

[dusky surge]

did more than that, they showed it

[cosmic pelican]

:0

Pretty much

Poor stego

[dusky surge]

https://youtu.be/6m3huQAn2ik?t=1863

Point stands, stego needs the help

[cosmic pelican]

New attacks wont rly solve that issue tho

Since rex can just... walk

[dusky surge]

Because it's becoming an endurance predator

According to Dondi, it's a bloodhound/endurance predator

No, Giga is more of a massive-game hunter and rushdown

[cosmic pelican]

Still better than the "haha bone break go brrr" rex we had in legacy

[dusky surge]

Endurance giga was silly in legacy regardless

Which is good imho

Giga doesn't need to be endurance since most of its main prey items are either slow or killed in an ambush

Kinda is, really

[cosmic pelican]

This game and realism wouldnt mix well

[dusky surge]

Moreso than legacy, anyway. Giga was faster irl, but rex outsped it in legacy. Rex was known to have INSANE senses, as well as a very endurance-based hunting style

The juveniles kinda prove rex is very used to an endurance-style hunting method

And anyway, I feel ambush rex is kinda silly, personally. Giga makes more sense as the ambusher/speedy boy, since it's actively known to be a fast creature, and doesn't need endurance when hunting extremely slow big things like shants and sauropods

[cosmic pelican]

Spino can challenge rex

[dusky surge]

Rex isn't the strongest apex, all apexes are advertised as exceptionally strong

spino has water, it can simply choose not to engage rex

we also don't know how fast giga's trot speed is either, nor its sprint speed

we've not got any info on giga in that regard

we know trike is going to be an absolute unit able to take down this rex with confidence

and legacy was terribly balanced because giga also obliterated every midtier in the game

i don't see that at all

trike is better suited for taking on bigger targets, stego is better against smaller targets

we know literally nothing about giga tho