balance-feedback-discussion

[tropic horizon]

I think but ye adults can’t be killed by pachies

[river nexus]

Can adults still use their tail if they're fractured

[tropic horizon]

Stegos can’t be fracture by pachies

[small ether]

Yeah I see what ur saying about how it’s annoying that you almost die every time you try to fracture now, maybe something else besides a stun lock would help but idk what

[river nexus]

That's cool to know, so pachies won't be able to fracture rex apparently

[small ether]

Lol yeah and a rex would absolutely delete a pachy if it tried

[river nexus]

Well, cerato apparently has a damage buff when it's chuffing. And it also has an invulnerability-buff when it's eating.
Maybe pachy could have something similar when it's slamming?

[tropic horizon]

And it’s not like it would have a reason to, it can just run

[stark knoll]

It doesn't, that was an idea the devs have but it's not implemented and might not come to the game at all

[river nexus]

Nvm

[tropic horizon]

I frames would be nice but also that could be exploited severely to just gain free I frames

[stark knoll]

And for the eating part, it'll negate small attacks but will still take damage from stronger ones

[tropic horizon]

As in say, as a small pachy, you ram something bigger than you that you couldn’t fracture and buy yourself more time

[river nexus]

Honestly pachy should just be fodder to large unfracturable things unless it's able to run away or smth

[tropic horizon]

Yeah against things that don’t actively prey on it, pachy should just run from them

[small ether]

Just curious, but why are people wanting Utah’s recovery wait back?

[slim dragon]

Because the absence of punishment for missing a pounce makes it OP

Old 3 seconds-long stagger was too much for sure, but the complete absence of recovery makes omnis able to completely mess up their attacks and go away without breaking a sweat

[small ether]

Don’t they realize that Utah, I mean Omni, is the only playable in the entire game that has a punishment for missing its ability? I’d say it’s finally on equal playing fields as everything else but it’s not since it ALSO has a punishment for landing a successful pounce. (Also the only dino in the game that has a built in direct counter mechanic)

[slim dragon]

Pachy does too, and said ability is also the strongest in the game, bar deino's lunge

[small ether]

Not to mention they’re currently the weakest playable that has to kill to eat, and I’d say landing it’s combat ability is also the least severe out of all the carnivores

[river nexus]

Absolutely does not make it OP, as the punishment is loss of stamina

[small ether]

What’s going on with pachy? Don’t they have like half a second stagger?

[slim dragon]

In update 6 it's weak because its competitors are OP, in update 6.5 that combined with the other buffs it got allow it to shred everything in the roster

[river nexus]

@small ether I talked abt this earlier, people are overreacting about the pounce and believing it is OP.
Yet they are neglecting the fact that if you pounce too much, you will lose your stam

[slim dragon]

I don't know the duration, but pachy is staggered when it misses a ram
Long enough to get punished by its opponents

[small ether]

People forget that carno (the current apex of the game) literally uses it’s combat ability for an extra speed boost too lol. It’s defensive and offensive with no punishment whatsoever

[slim dragon]

Oh I forgot omnis can't regenerate stamina

[slim dragon]

Charge doesn't give a speed boost anymore since update 6

[river nexus]

When you spam too much, you lose your stam. Meaning you will miss opportunities. This argument is invalid

[slim dragon]

sure

[small ether]

Can’t regen stamina?? When?

[small ether]

About time lol. That’s great news

[river nexus]

Why do omnis wait until they have an opportunity to pounce then? If they can just "regenerate it back anyways"? lmao

because they want and NEED to spare their stamina

[small ether]

Still no punishment for missing though

[river nexus]

Omnis use their stamina sparingly. That is why worrying about pounce being spammed is meaningless

Pounce is absolutely not OP, and pounce can absolutely not be "spammed" in the way you're clamining it of being capable of

[river nexus]

Charge will use more stam now if I remember correctly. So the punishment is that you lose stam due to not using your charge sparingly

[slim dragon]

Yeah, I believe carno suffering a short stagger if it hits a solid object when chargin (like it does when hitting FG stego) would already make it more interesting to fight against

But honestly, the charge ability as a whole is a paradox in carno's kit

[slim dragon]

Did I claim they would spam it ? My concern is that they can miss an ability that can potentially kill a creature up to 3x their size in one go without being punished in the slightest

[small ether]

If tenonto and carno can ez spam their abilities all day with no punishment in rapid succession (which they do), idk why people are complaining about Omni possibly spamming it’s pounce when it can’t even if it had no stagger because it’s too squishy. They HAVE to run away after missing a pounce if they don’t wanna get slammed hard

[river nexus]

Punishment = loss of stam. Not OP.

[small ether]

That’s literally every ability

[river nexus]

The pounce is not OP, just because it doesn't get damaged with a stun

[river nexus]

Wym

[small ether]

Every combat ability has a cost of stamina (or “punishment”)

[river nexus]

Good point here, tenos and stegos can do it. why not omnis?
However this point can be battled with the fact that tenos and stegos use it in defense, whilst omnis use it in offense

[river nexus]

Yeah but the stamina punishment for carno's charge has been strengthened, so carnos will use it more sparingly now

[small ether]

Some more than others. Ex Omni has probably the highest stamina drain for a successful attack, not just a failed attack

[small ether]

Yeah should’ve been in since the beginning

Their stamina drain for charge used to be like nothing

[slim dragon]

It's not a punishment, it's what you invest for using it
And the initial stamina cost for pounce isn't very high for an ability that powerful...

[river nexus]

The stam cost of omni's pounce is what prevents omni from abusing the pounce, we've established this already bubulb

[small ether]

Ah yes, an ability so powerful that it takes the highest amount of uses than any other ability to kill its target and throws the body of the squishiest carnivore onto another dinosaur that can potentially 1 shot it if it falls off the wrong way

An ability that literally has 2 braindead counters to it which is just “Hold button to buck” and “hold button to wallow”

[slim dragon]

-You can't be attacked when you're pouncing so if you hit you basically become invulnerable, unless you're attacking multiple targets bigger than you at once
-Pounce oneshots everything smaller than omni, and can also one-shot things like teno and carno it if it can pounce for long enough and the opponent doesn't manage their bloodpool right

[river nexus]

You can* be attacked while you're initiating a pounce

[small ether]

I said once the Omni jumps off, not while it’s on. And yes Omni’s pounce can 1 shot everything smaller but reality is, everything that is smaller than it is AI or Juvies lol which most if not all dinos can 1 shot with their BITE or ability anyways

And your second point is just very unrealistic

Brb I’ll get back to u two in an hour or so

[slim dragon]

You don't understand. First, there is nothing wrong with omni killing juvies
The fact it's a raptor doesn't grant it the right to hunt things 10x its size with no counterplay
An omni can oneshot a 449 kg juvie carno or stego, just by pressing right-click. In that, it's even more powerful than deino's lunge

As for my second point, it definitely happens. And even if the target doesn't die in one pounce, there are a lot of detriments for being low one blood, which being low on health don't do

[river nexus]

We have the answer, bubulu knows more than the devs - and knows better what is good for the game. Therefore, the devs had 0 reason to remove the stun penalty for omni's pounce - and bubul is automatically right about it being "OP".

The devs do totally not have a superior knowledge to determine whether or not removing the stun is for the best, or not

[slim dragon]

Hey, I'm not you

[river nexus]

I never claimed I know more than the devs
You however indirectly claim you know more than the devs, by invalidating a very clear decision they made and calling it OP

It's overreaction

[frail bobcat]

Have you seen the past updates? The devs have made mistakes in their balance a lot, so calling something op is not "knowing it better than the devs". The 6.5 omni is really strong, stronger than u5 omni imo and u5 omni was too strong

[slim dragon]

Don't even try, it's useless

[frail bobcat]

I know

[river nexus]

I'd like to suggest you're a brick wall due to your ability to ignore everything when you see it fit, lol

[river nexus]

"The devs have made mistakes in their balance a lot"
"a lot"?

OK, name 10

If you're unable, you contradict yourself

[slim dragon]

Everyone you talk to is a brick wall, yet you're never the one to blame, surprisingly

[frail bobcat]

Omni u5
The subs rn
Dryo during 3.75
Carno u6
Carno in a stresstest when its charge did bodyfracture
Pachy u6
Back when omnis pounce was damage based
Land croc in u3 (I believe)
Legacy Rex
Legacy Utah

[river nexus]

Funny guy

[river nexus]

Which subs

[frail bobcat]

Deino, stego and carno

I guess my argument is valid

[dusky surge]

just wait

[river nexus]

2 of the ones you named were legacy, "carno in a stress test bodyfracture" is a stress test and was not intended
omnis pounce being damage based was great, dryo during 3.75 was also very cool - we've established this already

[slim dragon]

We're literally talking about a stress test right now

[dusky surge]

there you go

[river nexus]

You run away when faced with questions, yet as soon as you see an opportunity to make an assumption - you jump right back in

What is this to you, a teltale game?

option A: run
option B: make assumption
option C: insult

[dusky surge]

hi :)

[river nexus]

Carno doing fracture is very clearly not intended lol, it does not count as an intentional decision made by the devs

[frail bobcat]

well, its the same devs making those decisions rn? we can swap out the stresstest one with ptera

[dusky surge]

it was, they did that on purpose

it was an experiment, they decided against it

Source: I was literally QA at the time

[slim dragon]

Ah yes, the famous bug that adds new effects to abilities

[river nexus]

They were never going to include it in the game, meaning it doesn't count. Teltale-gamer

[dusky surge]

they planned to

then they didn't

almost like that's how a test works

[slim dragon]

And now all we are hoping for is that they end up deciding against omni having no slowdown after missing a pounce

[dusky surge]

but idk man, maybe you have some insight that being a Quality Assurance team member didn't

anyway, goodnight, have fun trying to uh

do whatever this is

[slim dragon]

We know you hate it when other people make decisions that you do not control, no need to try and turn it into an insult

[frail bobcat]

but it was a bad idea and they got told so by the players. Which means they made a mistake and the players were smarter, if you like to put it that way

[river nexus]

I don't. Bulbulu definitely has some insight about the pounce that the devs don't apparently, my friendly teltale gamer

[river nexus]

They were never going to add fracture as an ability of carno's. They will however with anky

[dusky surge]

goodnight :)

please dont throw out insults btw its not very nice

[frail bobcat]

they were planning to

so they had the intention to, but they realised it was a bad idea and they changed it. Why did they change it? because they saw how it played out

[river nexus]

You're the insult-thrower here, I never insulted you - but you have insulted me & admitted to doing so, like 4+ times with a mod present

being a teltale-gamer is not an insult, by definition - calling you a teltale-gamer is therefore not an insult

[river nexus]

They never included it into the official game, meaning it was never going to be a thing

[dusky surge]

i take insult to being called a telltale gamer, please stop insulting me

kindly respect my requests please

[frail bobcat]

it was going to be a thing, but it got changed in the stresstest

[river nexus]

Alright, according to your logic I now take insult whenever you use the word "take", "Insult", "requests", "Ptera", "carno", and "Omni"
Please refrain from using these, otherwise you've insulted me. Even though the words have never in history been defined as insults

[dusky surge]

okay :)

we have a deal

im glad we could settle this like adults

[bright oasis]

You are miserable to "discuss" with, why do you think people stop as soon as you show up lol

Anyway back to work😎

[main helm]

I love humanity

[small ether]

Damn that’s cruel…

[tropic horizon]

Me too!

[main helm]

.... wait did i miss out on an inside joke, i was meant to be sarcastic due to the amount of interesting balance opinions i have read

[small ether]

Rip

[distant torrent]

@topaz elm I really like that idea

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message
Wait I heard carno was terrible in the stress test

[hollow canyon]

cause it was

but it has a good match up against Cerato to where Cerato has to put a lot of effort into it to win this fight so Carno clearly needs some more nerfs

every stress tester I spoke with said that Carno is pretty bad and they are generally just quite rare on the stress test

[slim dragon]

Hmm that's what I thought

So only cera and omni have the right to be OP, the rest must die

[golden coral]

@coral lodgeLet me see if I understood this right. You want the carno to A, need to run at full speed for 10+ seconds before it can charge, and B, need to charge at least another 10+ seconds to get something useful out of the charge. Please explain how this makes any sense what so ever for an ambush hunter, especially one of small and agile creatures, who now have a massive window of opportunity to see the carno come at them from very far away, and thus move out of the way very easily, even if they were currently eating ot drinking. On top of that you want to make it weaker, making said small game more capable than it already is of fighting back, should it somehow fail to avoid the charge.

[hollow canyon]

|| it doesn't ||

oh sorry, that's a bit of a spoiler

I should've hidden the message

there we go

[slim dragon]

Can carno even charge for 10 seconds ?

[hollow canyon]

I think? It would cost it like its whole stamina though

[coral lodge]

Im not a carno player, I just went with what i thought were good estimates, if you think they are too long please give me estimates that you feel would fit better. Im just trying to find a way to get rid of spammable charge.

[thin mantle]

“Spammable” charge is actually ideal for Carno based on what it is and where it lives

It just needs adjusting to fit that without breaking it

Because for one, Carno being an ambush predator with an ability exclusively useful for ambush is dumb

It’s not only the fastest animal in the game, but it also inhabits the region of the map with the worst conditions for ambushing

Which makes sense, Carno is meant to hunt small game, requiring it to ambush to catch said small game would be bizarre since they’re by far the hardest category of creature to land a decisive singular blow on, they can typically react quickly and are small, making them harder to hit

It’d make far more sense if Carno actually leaned into its a pursuer niche than an ambush based one

Further increasing not only the distance charge must travel to become useful not only drastically cripples their stamina economy but pushes them further in a niche they suck at filling

Like if Carno had more sprinting stam, kept current charge but with significantly reduced damage so it’s more of a positioning tool than a high damage attack, it’d fit far better

[coral lodge]

That does sound alot better, and more in character too. (Just tired of getting thrown on my ass from 30 feet away)

[thin mantle]

Well the distance part is irrelevant now since the hitbox has long since been fixed internally

Watch any stress test footage of carno if you want evidence of that

[coral lodge]

i have yet to see it granted i havent watched much stress test footage as it just makes me more impatient for the update

[thin mantle]

It's actually quite easy to dodge now for most animals

Which for the current iteration of charge...is ideal

Still sucks that carno is being balanced with 2 conflicting niches in mind tho

Current charge is only really useful in ambush (which carno sucks at) or within group fights against larger targets

Which it shouldn't even be participating in to begin with

[coral lodge]

Yeah, i always lean into the ambush niche just because its a fun way to play when done right, but at the same time, carno is built for long distance speedy persuit, so it gets conflicting often

[thin mantle]

Mhm, and it takes a profoundly stupid target for your ambush to even work now because charge is back to being an ability that...makes sense physically...meaning it's useless against anyone with functioning eyes and brain

Because it's for some reason optimized for taking down large slow targets despite that being the opposite of what carno is designed to hunt

[coral lodge]

Yeah my biggest issue with it is really just the hitbox. Getting knocked down from 30 feet away is really stupid.

[thin mantle]

Mhm, and thankfully that is no longer a problem

felt bad to play with, and against

[coral lodge]

God i cant wait for it

Tho with a cleaned up hitbox, i wonder if adding a 4th attack to carnos kit that can only be used while charging would be possible

But it would prob be stupid, so m just not gonna think about it

[hollow canyon]

The hitbox has been fixed like months ago, they just don't do hotfixes so we have to wait for 6.5 to drop

this whole situation is an obvious side effect of adding a mid tier small game hunter with a bunch of animals all smaller than it

it really couldn't have gone any worse

nor could it ever have gone any better really

[thin mantle]

I feel like carno's entire niche contradicting it's balancing might have contributed more than it should've to it being a disfunctional mess

[hollow canyon]

that too

[thin mantle]

That still looms over all of carno's roster issues

[obtuse ocean]

How are you supose to kill anything if you reduce its damage? Like its already very easy to outmanouver a carno in the open, and if i even get more time to run into denser areas where it have no chance of catching anything. Stamina dont help it any ways, you need to kill somethinh fast in the open to be effective

[keen plover]

Almost like the plains hunter that hunts in the open should actually be agile 😄

[obtuse ocean]

Hehe yea, but omni deserves beeing superior in agility i think atleast:P

But if more or less whatever you are going for as carno manages to get into the woods/dense areas, carno is useless. Even the fight can turn into carno beeing the one fleeing

[alpine sleet]

did they gave omni the post pounce stun back in the last branch or is it still with zero recovery?

[unborn iris]

No need to reinvent the wheel. This tracking worked fine before, it just worked too good. They just need to tweak it again.

[warped wharf]

Another problem is that carno is just braindead-easy to play, compared to cerato, troodon and omni.

all of the other carnivores require complex hunting strategies, or have to utilize complex mechanics or serious risks in order to make a successful kill. Or have some sort of inherent weakness due to limitations in their kit (ex: deino can't really stalk or hunt, it has to wait for prey to come to its location; all it can do is ambush)

carno has: +speed, +mindles ramming gameplay mechanic, +decent stam for map traversal, stalking, ambushing & general hunt, +size & weight advantage for the time being

and even with larger playables added later on - what future addition is going to be fast enough to hunt a carno down, counter them or keep their numbers in line? Shouldn't be galli tbh, those should be its preferred prey items. I guess allo with its ambush gimmick?

[hollow canyon]

Carno? Decent stam? Stalking? I think you might be playing some different game.

In general though - yes Carno which is a small game hunter will have a relatively easy time in combat in a roster full of small animals that are its prime target.

If you had Omni in a roster full of animals smaller than it it would be effectively oneshotting everything by pressing rmb on it. That's just how things work when you put a larger animal with a particularly good match up against those smaller than itself against a bunch of animals smaller than it.

If you were to take out Omni, Tenonto and Pachy out of the game and replaced them with Allosaurus/Albertosaurus, Maiasaura and a Pachyrhinosaurus Carno would be absolutely garbage cause it would get deleted by all of them while being incapable of really doing anything to them.

[primal token]

Hey what are your thoughts on bringing Omni pounce repercussion back. Imo it’s a stupid change to remove it in the first place. Why remove the punishment for playing bad.. Instead give us something we asked for and buff the dino like cmon.. Make successfully landing a pounce more rewarding instead of making it easier. Let me hear your thoughts on this!

[thin mantle]

Omni literally didn’t need changes from Update 6 going into 6.5, statistically and mechanically it was already VERY strong

It just needed bug fixes with itself and other animals to be brought up to par

[golden coral]

I am a little uncertain on the thinking here... All of them press and hold RMB, it's as easy for any of them, there's nothing that makes a lunge or a pounce more "difficult" than a charge or a ram. If charge is mindless, so is lunge and pounce, you do nothing more complicated in any of the cases. Also deino can most certainly stalk/hunt (also, since when is a deino at risk, ever, in a hunt), not very easy perhaps, but they can follow someone from under water. Also carno don't have that much stam for map traversal, not if it want to also be ready to use that stam in a fight or flight. I would argue that all of the playables are about as easy and "mindless" to play, cerato is no more difficult than carno from what I can see, and omni has never been particularly difficult to use, it's always been pretty easy, and I don't see troodon being any different, being how similar they are overall. So I'd rank them as some of the easiest to play, together with deino that is just overall op, since carno, despite it's massive hitbox (that isnt meant to be like that and will be fixed), otherwise have weaknesses, such as low stam, terrible bleed handling, high hunger, and so on.

[unborn iris]

I like the adjustment of inertia, but agree it didn't need buffs.

[thin mantle]

Mhm, plus that was game wide, everything had bad turns because of it

[unborn iris]

I felt it the most on omni, though.

[main helm]

Omni needs a growth stage speed buff and some sort of minigame to it's pounce, or just make the pounce slightly better in terms of it's stam drain speed when it's on, including bucking and not the damage. The teno buck stam drain is insane as of now

[thin mantle]

None of this is necessary

Omni is very strong

[main helm]

In what world-

[thin mantle]

6

So this one

[main helm]

Over there, yes it got a buff but in the wrong spots

[tall bronze]

Omni's problems in U6 are essentially indirect. The changes to it's pouncing in 6.5 is a lil confusing to me.

[thin mantle]

No it got massively over buffed in 6.5, literally none of those changes were necessary

[main helm]

If they didn't buff the damage in the stress test, which i think they didn't, the missed stun delay didn't need to be removed, the pounce just needs to be a bit more rewarding

[main helm]

what was the changes, i forgor

[unborn iris]

Even if bucking stayed the same with the heavy drain and you could only tap pounce. Omni would have been strong if carno wasn't just OP and even 35% carno could just destroy utahs with unlimited stamina, charges, and ability to escape easily. Every death on omni for me was to fast carnos.

[tall bronze]

Lack of recovery is v e r y concerning to me <:I

[unborn iris]

But now that's changed, and that's really the only thing that was needed to "fix" omni.

[golden coral]

Maybe not a mini game, but something more than hold RMB/hold E for pounce/buck interaction would be nice in general.

[main helm]

The thing is, the removed recovery for the missed pounce, it helped in the incorrect fights, i feel like the only dinos that use that opportunity to punish a omni properly is pachy and teno, which was already a okay enough fight, but now that's gone and it still has a pretty bad matchup against carno

[unborn iris]

Agreed.

[golden coral]

That's more so an issue with the sub stages being off (see sub deino), and the broken hitbox on carno charge.

[unborn iris]

Yeah.

And that was also fixed, along with unneeded buffs to omni.

Basically what I was trying to say.

[main helm]

Maybe if you latched on, you had to hold left click to damage the dino and if they were bucking while you weren't holding down the attack button, the stam drain would be a lot less drastic? feel like that'd be fun for both parties and you can still use trees or rocks to get em off

[dawn falcon]

What’s the convo my friends

[main helm]

omni pounce

[thin mantle]

Omni has had the same damage it’s had since U5, the same damage that made it overpowered, it’s damage certainly doesn’t need buffs and the buck stam drain was necessary to add, well, any sort of necessary skill to play the animal because now, pounce duration comes in stages. You can’t stay on for too long on a larger target with full stam because you’ll be thrown off, but you’re still getting bleed buildup, which is something you can influence without even attacking, forcing the animal to use stamina consuming attacks and movement does just as much as landing another pounce would…then when you e whittled the animals stam down sufficiently you can kill it with damage from pounce since they can’t buck when their stamina is fully drained

[dawn falcon]

Is it about the lack of missed pounce?

[thin mantle]

It was literally in the most balanced state it’s ever been in the games history in 6, now it’s back to being too forgiving and powerful

[unborn iris]

I agree with that.

But we will see soon. Raptors everywhere again.

[golden coral]

Attack at the risk of getting thrown off, brace to counter buck but do no damage to waste the targets stam. Or something. But yes, it'd be nice with something at least, if it's doable.

[main helm]

Not with carnos lmao.

[thin mantle]

Yes with carnos

[unborn iris]

Raptors will be destroying carnos now.

[dawn falcon]

I’d prefer if missing the pounce costed you some more stamina

[unborn iris]

You will see lol

[thin mantle]

Carno is terrible without the crutch of it’s bugs to save it

[dawn falcon]

A missed pounce ultimately yoinking 10% more of your stamina

[main helm]

Not with carnos, the majority of the carno playerbase is not good which is why we ever see them die to omnis

[golden coral]

And now they come in half and full size xD

[unborn iris]

Is impact pounce still a thing in ST?

[tall bronze]

I very much like the idea of no stagger on miss, but instead a significant slow for several seconds.

[thin mantle]

That isn’t a punishment in any meaningful sense, that’s 7 more seconds of standing still regaining said stam, in the vast majority of omnis matchups this isn’t even detrimental

[unborn iris]

Servers full of raptors wouldn't be horrible for me, I love utah vs utah.. but impact pounce kind of made that a less fun fight.

[dawn falcon]

Apparently no

[unborn iris]

Hell yes

[tall bronze]

What was impact pounce again? 😛

[dawn falcon]

Magnet

[main helm]

There's an impact pounce?

[unborn iris]

Where you jsut had to be touching the other dino and hit rmb and you just teleported to their side.

[tall bronze]

Hmm

[main helm]

at least it's not as bad as carno's charge hitbox

[thin mantle]

That’s still sorta a thing

[golden coral]

If 10% is the cost for using pounce for omni (I don't know if troodon costs any?), then add 5% more if miss, apply to both of them. Honestly, if you miss once, you shouldn't be pouncing again very soon, you should probs reposition and reconsider, and with a pack, both of the playables should have the ability to do so, unless they all pounce and mess up together somehow...

[dawn falcon]

They just really need to add more frames to pounce as well, so you can punish a pounce mid-air

[main helm]

feel like half of us is seeing completely different matchups somehow

[thin mantle]

I feel like almost all of us agree

[dawn falcon]

You have like half of a split of a second to be able to hit a pounce mid air, so precise that it doesn’t even matter

[coral lodge]

Used to be able to do that in update 2. You could smack Omnis out of the air with a tail slam

[dawn falcon]

Actually no. Just add more frames to everything’s abilities minus Pounces

[main helm]

the current non stress tester game has barely any utahs, if they're in a good balance position howcome there are barely any except for the very few occasions that get massacred by one carno ambush afterward?

[unborn iris]

There's barely any players period.

[thin mantle]

Not sure why population ratios are evidence for a creatures strength

[main helm]

... apart from the skill gaps

[unborn iris]

The stress testers aren't really the people playing this game day in and day out.

[dawn falcon]

Tailslam only has one frame where it can damage you and that’s during the end of the animation. Realistically even before it slams to the ground, you should be damaged because of the tail colliding with your hitbox.

[thin mantle]

Deino is the strongest animal in the game and on the ST their like unicorns

[unborn iris]

Which has been made even more obvious from player numbers.

[main helm]

stego is the best dino in the game, it literally can't be killed by a deino unless it is stuck in crossing

[golden coral]

Probably because all the new critters I would think.

[main helm]

or unless it just wants to die or isn't that experienced

[thin mantle]

It’s deino, stego can’t even remotely compare, also that’s just wrong, deino can currently solo a stego

[tall bronze]

Carno's Texas hitbox combined with how horribly common they are makes Omni less favorable to play
Pachy being able to stun lock things means more Pachys, and Pachy is already naturally good at killing Omni, further making Omni less favorable to play
Combine these with the idea of "why play "gets killed by busted animals so much" Omni when ultra broken Carno/Pachy exist" and there ya go

[main helm]

... yeah but that's because the stego sucks ass, it's faster than a deino and has more stam, it just has to not let it get to it's head

[golden coral]

Could do that and add just a few more to pounce as well. I believe it's during pounce/dismount you should be at risk of getting hit and killed. As in, while you are airborne, not before or after you've landed (unless they got you to land somewhere where you can't move from, but well that's on you for not seeing that I'd say).

[dawn falcon]

I disagree with the need of a missed pounce now that I’ve seen Omni in action, since it feels so much more smooth now, but I agree that there needs to be some kind of nerfs to Omnis kit so we can keep the smoothness without being unbalanced

[tall bronze]

I'm telling ya, just reduce it's speed and acceleration if it misses for a few seconds <:I No clunky stun but you're still punished. Seems worth trying ;c

[thin mantle]

So basically, the only way a stego can survive an attack from a deino is if it runs away….

[golden coral]

Clearly you've never heard of deino, who is in all aspects aside from raw damage in normal attack, better :p

[dawn falcon]

Ohhh so endlag?

[thin mantle]

Also from just straight survivability deino is far better

[main helm]

No, it doesn't need to run away, it just keeps it's distance a little and swipes at it's head

[main helm]

as a proud cannibal, unfortunately not.

[thin mantle]

So it requires a colossally stupid deino

[tropic horizon]

Or if it literally just shanks it with its tail spikes or does the revolutionary strategy of just moving it’s head away from the deinos mouth

[tall bronze]

Kinda yeah. Like you miss and your raptor is fairly sluggish to simulate trying to regain balance/footing basically. Nothing crazy, but enough to allow an opening for the prey.

[golden coral]

I'd argue extra stam drain, but a slight slow might work too. I just want a miss to be "oops, I need a few moments to recover before I keep going", and I figure stam would work there.

[dawn falcon]

Fair enough

[main helm]

How is the deino stupid? You literally can't catch up to a stego as a deino, the stego just isn't dumb enough to let you get free headshots in

[thin mantle]

If it doesn’t plan on constantly running that doesn’t work, deino outturns stegos standing turn as it attacks

[main helm]

The only way that is gonna work, is if you accidentally do the longer animation as a stego twice in a row

[dawn falcon]

I actually really like this idea since now you aren’t essentially getting current CC 2.0

[thin mantle]

Because you’re pursuing an animal that is aware of a strategy that will kill you and you’re continuing to play into it instead of going back in the water where literally nothing in the game can harm you

[golden coral]

Not sure how that relates honestly. Deino has advantages in every matchup vs the rest of the roster compared to stego, and in their matchup both sides can avoid each other, while two deinos can take a stego, while two stegos can still be avoided (unless you're in a bad spot but that's on you for not seeing the risks I'd say)

[dawn falcon]

You can still move around and dodge so I agree with the change

[tall bronze]

[main helm]

So basically a deino can't solo a stego that knows what it is doing you're saying? ( which is pretty much the situation- )

[golden coral]

I'd say neither can, but the deino can force the fight in a sense, the stego can not.

[thin mantle]

Mhm, whereas stego can’t even damage a deino if it knows…anything about deino

[golden coral]

But it does come down to the stego running away from the deino more likely than not in the 1v1

[main helm]

How is a deino able to solo a stego unless the steg literally stays in water for some reason then

[main helm]

yeah, unless you get stuck in one of those really tight rivers like at NW the bottom part of waterfall and the steg gatekeeps it a bit

[thin mantle]

It doesn’t need to stay in the water, it just needs to not prioritize gaining space and running to maximize damage uptime while the deino is still far enough to not attack it, most stegos facetank, which stego currently can’t do

[alpine plover]

Eh most of them just put their butt in the river and swing at anything they see get close

[main helm]

... so a deino can't solo a stego that isn't partially allowing it then.

[thin mantle]

Yes, same goes for deino only more extreme

[main helm]

what'chu mean more extreme

[thin mantle]

Deino is undamageable for 99% of its gameplay

Because of water

[unborn iris]

Deino has a highway all around the map where nothing else can attack aside from normal bites.

[thin mantle]

Which even then they can’t do because of dive

[main helm]

apart from the few crossing points and the shallow areas, yeah

[thin mantle]

Which there’s no reason for deino to have to engage with, it can just stay in sections of rivers that render it entirely invincible and invisible, or just tank the few hits it takes to reach that new area, which i can’t even think of a circumstance where that can’t be done

We don’t actually have a stretch of shallows long or deep enough to make deino detectable

In gateway we do, in Spiro we don’t

[thin mantle]

Spiro is actually a far too forgiving map for deino

[main helm]

tbh, don't know what else to talk about there, but i feel like it sums it up that neither stego nor deino can die by the hand of the other unless it's in a specific circumstance or they got a deathwish

[thin mantle]

Well no omnis and ceras can hunt stegos

They can’t touch deinos

[golden coral]

Technically anything can, given sufficient numbers

Since stego can't really go away

[main helm]

stego just needs a hill or a slope and a omni literally can't get off without getting hit if it's angled towards it and cera can't go in for a bite fast enough if the steg doesn't play the long animation

[golden coral]

Deino on the other hand, depending on where you are, can literally be untouchable, and with air time, log underwater if it's full on air and be fine I believe

[thin mantle]

It can, you can overcome both challenges, especially if you wait out a stegos dehydration

[main helm]

... so we need a deino on top in a hunt to keep it from drinking then

on top of the things that are hunting it i meant

[thin mantle]

No

Why would that be your takeaway

It means that the stego has to reposition from where it is to go get water

[main helm]

.. yes? if there's water to drink then the stego can just either stand in the water for the others to have a speed debuff or it can tank the one or two bites while it gets water

[thin mantle]

Which leaves it open

[main helm]

it's just trotting, if it doesn't panic it's fine, there's palms everywhere

[thin mantle]

Most of the stegos I’ve killed in 6 have been because of this

They go for water and we mass pounce them since they lack a counter when in the open

[main helm]

i'm sorry but most of the stegs suck then

[thin mantle]

That’s true, most isle players are terrible at the game

[main helm]

yeah, boio really don't got any predators other than itself

[thin mantle]

But any stego in an open area can’t physically defend from 2 threats attacking it at once

One of them will be successful. Stego isn’t versatile enough to prevent it

[main helm]

ya ever fought any try hard stegos?

[thin mantle]

Yes

Doesn’t change much, their kit is incredibly limiting

Skill expression with stego is VERY low

Because it has no mobility and only 1 viable attack

It’s insanely predictable and easy to counter

[main helm]

all a steg needs to do, is be near by a little hill or a tree or near water and it's basically gonna win

[thin mantle]

Which is fine

I’m talking about when it’s forced to reposition

Or if we catch it in the plains

At that point it needs to just run to a cliff or it dies

[main helm]

the steg's dumb then

[thin mantle]

Being in the open plains as an animal who’s primary food sources are all on the open…is dumb?

[main helm]

or it wants to have fun

[thin mantle]

It literally has to go to the places that make it the most vulnerable

[main helm]

all of the plains diets spawn close enough to the stretches of small or large forests that surround the plains, it's basically like a minute walk away from em

[thin mantle]

Yes, we can do quite a bit in a minute

[main helm]

... like max you can get it to 60% bleed

and that's stretching it.

[thin mantle]

It only takes 5-7 partially completed pounces to kill a stego with baits

[main helm]

no way

[thin mantle]

Try it

[main helm]

a carno survives that if it stands still, i did

[thin mantle]

A Carno physically can’t survive 2 unless it sits down, plus Carno doesn’t have to use stamina to defend itself

[main helm]

If we're talking about combo pounces like, more than one utah on then i don't know about that

[thin mantle]

Any stamina drain on the bleeding animal amplifies the bleed

[main helm]

WHAT

[thin mantle]

Yes it just takes time to bleed them

[main helm]

You playing in the update where carno had it's bleed nerfed?

[thin mantle]

Yes

[main helm]

.. well that explains it.

[thin mantle]

That was when Omni literally soloed Carno easily lmao

Back in 5

[tall bronze]

[thin mantle]

Goes for any stat but is especially applicable with stamina

[main helm]

That was good times tho, i played carno alot there and had so much fun, i actually couldn't just shrug off a pounce like rn

[thin mantle]

Oh….

[golden coral]

Isn't that current?

[golden coral]

?

[thin mantle]

update 5

[tall bronze]

I've never ever heard of this 😮 So if I'm bleeding, then use a stamina attack, the bleed worsens?

[main helm]

what fluff said

[thin mantle]

Yep, same goes for if you have lower food and water

Bleed is effected by a LOT of factors

[golden coral]

Carno never got any resistance back for this update though?

[thin mantle]

It got its resistance to bleed nerfed

[main helm]

... although if i'm honest, seeing how the diet system literally doesn't work properly that might not even be a feature

[tall bronze]

I knew low food/water made it take longer to heal, but I didn't know it actively made it worse O_O

[thin mantle]

To the point where you could bleed it in a single pounce

[golden coral]

The lower your health, stamina, food and water are, the more and longer you bleed.

[main helm]

it did, literally every carno player spammed the chat and complained about it like day 1 ( talking about resistance back from update 5 )

[thin mantle]

Well yeah

[tall bronze]

TIL 🌠

[thin mantle]

Carno was borderline fodder in update 5, at least combatively

[golden coral]

Really? Far as I know, carno still has worse bleed multipliers that it got back then

[thin mantle]

Against Omni it was a 1v1 that favored Omni

[golden coral]

Need to go look at the patch notes I suppose, see if I can find something there

[thin mantle]

Yeah that was never changed

[main helm]

It's before the gore update, don't know where tho.
I think it was the patch notes where it had something to do with it's charge

[golden coral]

So.. what are you talking about then?

[thin mantle]

If you let the Omni get the completed pounce off on you you’re dead

[golden coral]

I admit, I'm confused now xD

[main helm]

... you're wrong.

[thin mantle]

Useless thinks that U5 had good balancing between Omni and Carno

[main helm]

I didn't say that, i said i had fun and that i couldn't mindlessly run into utah packs like there's no tomorrow

[golden coral]

And they didn't get it back anyway, far as I can tell. Carno still has worse bleed handling than the others.

[main helm]

Which i think is right, you shouldn't just see a pack of 3 or 4 utahs and if you don't suck be able to kill them quite efficiently

[thin mantle]

No that’s fine

If they’re in the open they’ve placed themselves at a disadvantage

They’ve given you complete authority

[golden coral]

I think it's like, low health/food, you take more bleed damage. Low water/stamina, you bleed longer. Low on everything = you die xD But I could be wrong, I am however sure that all four affect bleed in some way like described.

[main helm]

but that's currently the thing tho, even in the forest and it got even worse when the game for some reason decided to buff the carno turn radius charge

[golden coral]

@main helmI'll go see if I can find the notes

[thin mantle]

In forests currently carno is free food

[main helm]

tis before the gore update

[thin mantle]

Omni destroys them without the ability to charge

[main helm]

... you can charge, the charge start up is very fast for what it is and you don't need to really charge in the first place but ya can just bite

[thin mantle]

You can, but the amount of obstacles and foliage make it insanely easy to prevent getting hit

[main helm]

also the trees can unfortunately work against you if they are thick enough, you'll get stuck on them when getting off fo a bit

[golden coral]

Give me a moment.

[thin mantle]

Not if you’re tap pouncing but yeah if you maintain a 3 second pounce you’re gonna be easier to knock off

[main helm]

take your time no worries

[main helm]

also uh, it's a bit hard to properly get a clear view when you come back from getting your stam back as a omni on the carno, which gives you the worst spot to be ambushed if it's standing still in the billion spots of boosh

and it can still bonk you off using a tree

[thin mantle]

I’ve never had that as an issue when playing in a group

The group keeps it engaged while the others regain stam

[main helm]

carno's constantly moving then

in how large groups you play?

[golden coral]

@main helm

Carnotaurus

Special Ability: Charge
Stamina drain reduced
Charge speed bonus decreased
Turn rate adjusted for sprint and charge

Bucking
Stamina damage per tick increased

That is for U6.

Carnotaurus

Diets
Boar added to Three dots nutrient.

Movement Modifiers
Standing Bleed Multiplier increased.
Walking Bleed Multiplier increased.
Trotting Bleed Multiplier increased.

Hunger Intake
Mass removed per tick increased.

Fracture HP
Body Fracture health reduced.

Primary Attack: Bite
Attack hitbox lowered slightly.

That is for U5.

[thin mantle]

Typically a group of 3

[main helm]

it did get it's bleed buffed tho, otherwise you'd hear everyone whining about it to this day

i just don't know where

[thin mantle]

It didn’t

[main helm]

damn, i want your luck of finding solo carnos like that

[golden coral]

Yes but as you can see, U5 nerfed it, and that remains through U6, and that is what make carno so very suspectible to bleed, more than it was before. Before U5, it was normal, far as I know, like most of the others.

If there were changes way back when, that's possible, but carno does have worse bleed handling as it stands, compared to others.

[thin mantle]

I just only choose hunts I know we can win, 1v3 against a Carno is a fight I know we can win, 2 carnos is a different story, granted Carno is omnis literal only predator in the roster, so I’m glad they’re not that weak

[main helm]

I swear, there was a update where one fully bucked pounce got you down to around 60% to 80% bleed and then it got changed

[thin mantle]

That was U5, it was never changed

Carno still has paper skin

[main helm]

I'm either high as hell constantly or something, hold on i gotta check you guys are too persistent on that

standing still or trotting?

[golden coral]

U4 and 3 makes no mention of bleed. You might be thinking of before weight/health became a thing perhaps?

It is far more likely that what you're thinking of is omnis getting their bleed on pounce limited, since it did a lot (still does really)

[main helm]

hold on

[thin mantle]

Which isn’t really because of their bleed damage, it’s because of pounce duration

[golden coral]

Since I'm sure somewhere in one of these updates, bleed on pounce might have been changed, as well as the buck stam drain yes, which would also affect it.

[thin mantle]

Omnis bleed got nerfed, by a very very small amount, the reduced overall bleed damage is primarily from buck being useful

[golden coral]

On the one hand, it's kind of funny we're all scouring the patch notes for info, on the other, it is good that we take it seriously and attempt to provide accurate information

[main helm]

we can at least all agree that pachy needs it's stun back no?

[thin mantle]

No

[main helm]

... WAH

[thin mantle]

Pachy should’ve never even had it to begin with

[golden coral]

That might be it yes.

[main helm]

just hopped on, got a full ad omni to pounce me WITHOUT me bucking at all until it quite literally fell off.

[thin mantle]

Stuns made Pachy the most powerful single combatant in the roster

[golden coral]

Going to have to disagree there. I do not think pachy stunlocking things twice its size was a good thing. While I did like the idea of stun on fracture only, which seemed like a good compromise, I think there's potential for better balancing with out the current stuns than with them.

[thin mantle]

After seeing what a no stun Pachy looks like, I’m even off the boat of wanting stuns on fractures

Pachy performs fine without stuns entirely

[main helm]

... you're telling me that pachy should be basically the only creature that needs more than 20% of it's hp to survive an encounter from a carno no matter what?

[thin mantle]

And it still deletes tenos because of body feactures

[golden coral]

So you lost 50% blood? If I'm looking in the corner. Can't say much for health there, hard to say how many % that is, and I don't know your food/water (stam looks full at least)

[thin mantle]

Yeah sure, probably won’t be the only one

[main helm]

It's literally gonna get kicked by a teno when it goes in for a ram, which is gonna be followed up by one more or two more kicks

[thin mantle]

Gooooood

[main helm]

You are insane.

[thin mantle]

You as a Pachy should never be facilitated in fighting tenos

Why would we want pachy’s fighting tenos

[main helm]

Same logic should go for omni then, same growth time

[distant torrent]

pachy shouldn’t be going after tenos

[main helm]

ye, here

[thin mantle]

We don’t balance with growth time, we balance via niche and mechanics

[main helm]

i was trotting for 70% of the duration and then standing still for the other 30%

[golden coral]

Considering carnos lethality and small game hunter style, it's not entirely unreasonable, since pachy isn't as fast and agile as omni. You do also have the damage reduction on head, and if you break the carnos face, it'll do much less damage if it can even aim. Break the leg, and you're out free, break the body and you need to juke for a bit but it's doable. Fractures might need work, easier to apply or doing more, but it's still, I'd argue, better than pachies being able to stunlock things in pairs and the target being unable to fight back at all.

[golden coral]

Sounds to me like carno bleed quite well if one full pounce takes you to half bleed, and it checks out with trotting and standing still having been nerfed. (Yes I saw, I missed that, my apologies!)

[thin mantle]

Juking a 6.5 Carno for 20 seconds is also apparently very easy to do

[main helm]

Omni is faster, more agile, has more hunger and doesn't need to stand still to do an attack that is worth something, yet it should still be able to have a better fighting matchup against things larger than it while pachy can't? Omni is not even limited with it's attack, pachy can't do anything against things that are more than 4 tons

[main helm]

I said i was trotting for 70% of the time and then standing still the other 30%

[thin mantle]

Yes, what’s the problem

[main helm]

also this was a full pounce, without me bucking at all

[golden coral]

I edited! So sorry!

[main helm]

he fell off from being out of stam

[main helm]

tis oki

[thin mantle]

Pachy isn’t owed combative viability against animals drastically larger than itself because it grows just as long as an animal that does

[main helm]

so there is no way in hell, a carno is able to die to 2 pounces from a omni unless it doesn't know how to buck

[thin mantle]

Pachy already is the sole administer of the strongest status effect in the game

[golden coral]

Omni being overtuned (nothing new there), does not excuse the questionable state of pachy in U5/U6

[thin mantle]

It can and does

[main helm]

Pachy can literally die, trying to use it's main ability.

[thin mantle]

Just need to keep its stamina draining

[main helm]

Just trying and succesfully getting it off

[thin mantle]

So can everything else in the game bar stego and deino

[main helm]

if it doesn't get a leg break on a carno, it's done for unless it evades it using environment

[thin mantle]

Yes….it’s an animal 4 times your size

[main helm]

If you miss, or hit a lunge on a stego as a deino, you will not die unless low on hp

[thin mantle]

Why is the is a problem

[thin mantle]

Because stego and deino never have to engage animals 4-5 times their own weight or larger

[main helm]

and unless you miss a pounce right next to a carno so that it can get a headshot bite and then a follow up, you aren't gonna die either

[main helm]

because nobody will play pachy, since it is not viable nor any fun

[thin mantle]

It’s viable, and fun

[main helm]

How is getting punished for doing something succesfully fun?

The only ' reward ' you get is a 50 / 50 chance on being able to escape

since fractures in this game sometimes don't make sense with the locations due to the desync

[thin mantle]

Because it means their is a far greater degree of skill involved in surviving engagements with animals far larger than me, and that’s quite rewarding

[golden coral]

To be fair, pachy without stuns might need help to be fine

[main helm]

There is no skill, you're literally better off not using the ram at all and just running

[golden coral]

I don't think it's unreasonable to consider that

But that does not mean the stunlock is good at all. That had to go, no matter what.

[main helm]

Oh ye, the stunlock is pretty bad i agree, being on the receiving end of that heh

.. and giving

[golden coral]

So, while the premise of "pachy without stun might struggle" is valid, the premise of "we should have kept the stuns" is a no go, because that just allowed pachy to do things it shouldn't be doing.

[thin mantle]

@dusky surge You’ve played quite a bit of stress test Pachy. Is it viable?

[thin mantle]

If it’s fractures were more consistent I think it’d be fine

Could also make it faster but that presents far more issues than it fixes

[main helm]

It's stuck in spot for less than a split second after succesfully hitting it off, which basically gives the other guy a free attack

unless you get the bug where you have no recovery for some reason

[golden coral]

Yeah, the risk of missing the legbreak is probably the main issue here, or that a body break then isn't "good enough" potentially

[thin mantle]

Oh body fractures are too powerful atm

I wouldn’t say they are the ones in need of a buff, if anything that’s head fractures

For example, a body fractures Carno has 20 seconds to only sprint before it can’t use the primary advantage that makes it good, it’s sprint

[main helm]

body fracs are pretty good in the long run, but in the situation where a pachy wants to survive against a carno it's the time limit where it can chase it down or get a charge off / bite it to death and against a teno you will always get literally kicked twice or three times

[thin mantle]

Teno has 4 remaining attacks after a body fracture before it literally just dies

[thin mantle]

What’s wrong with teno curbstomping Pachy?

[golden coral]

To be fair, with the fixed hitbox on charge, that carno is probably going to struggle with hitting you if you juke properly now.

Not to mention the stamina cost now

So sure, it can try to get you, but it won't be trying for long or very well

[thin mantle]

Pachy is agile enough to juke Carno and the acceleration nerf ensures it won’t be catching up to you after turning quickly

[main helm]

Cause pachy would be the only thing that gets curbstomped by it while having an hour of growth time?

[thin mantle]

Ok? What’s the problem with that

Just don’t fight the teno and you’re fine

[main helm]

.. nobody will heckin play pachy.

[thin mantle]

This is a survival game hit a fighting game

If not being able to kill tenos solo is what makes or breaks pachy’s population….then it’s better of not being played

Because that’s a silly reason

[main helm]

Ah yes, no fun and you're gonna be just fine, in that scenario, literally everything in the game is just fine, because we can all live on the other side of the map, eating AI or grass and hiding away or running at the sight of anything that's not an AI

[golden coral]

I mean, do pachy need to fight teno?

[thin mantle]

You under no context have to fight tenos as a Pachy

[main helm]

you can't kill a teno solo as pachy if it's not new to teno

[golden coral]

One is a "coastal" critter, the other a "swamp" critter, more or less?

[thin mantle]

You shouldn’t be able to kill the average teno with 3 pachy’s let alone 1

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, that too, so yeah, pachy should be okay if it's aim is true!

[thin mantle]

Pachy is also faster with more stam

[main helm]

... you overkilled it with not being able to kill a teno with 3 pachys

You're making pachy basically a worse dryo.

[golden coral]

What?...

[thin mantle]

What xD

40 dryos can’t kill a teno

[golden coral]

How did we go from "might struggle to escape carno, having to take a hit" to "worse dryo"?

[thin mantle]

Because it can’t fight teno very well

[golden coral]

Pachy is still, from what I've heard, lethal to things it's own size and similar

[main helm]

Aight i said that badly but i meant it as in that it would be a creature that literally has no fighting chance and can only run

[golden coral]

It just can no longer go out and fight things over twice it's size solo/duo

[thin mantle]

Against teno, good

[golden coral]

It can still take on carnos and tenos as well most likely in groups of 3+, which is more or less fine

[main helm]

you got some teno ptsd my friend

[thin mantle]

What is the issue with that, it’s faster and has more stam

[golden coral]

Again, why would a pachy/teno matchup even be a thing?

They're not really critters that might live in the same biome?

[thin mantle]

No you’ve just failed to provide any reasons why Pachy must be competently fighting teno aside from the fact that other animals can

[main helm]

who do i answer first, am getting gang banged here lmao

[thin mantle]

Whoever you want

[golden coral]

You can talk with Fluff first. I'm just confused as to why this is an issue in the first place, but I'll wait!

[main helm]

fluff's my favorite then

[thin mantle]

Ok go for it

[main helm]

Alright, technically it doesn't need to be able to competently fight a teno, but the issue is that it will be literally outshined by anything else on the roster since it just won't have any versatility in fighting, it would literally only fight utahs and anything that is smaller, pachy's a fighting boio, it's not designed to only run away

i don't have any like good comparisons

[cerulean anvil]

Well actually pachy is designed to hit and run.

[thin mantle]

Yeah that’s in line with pachy’s design, it’s supposed to fight and brawl with animals it’s own size, and run from animals larger, if necessary fracture them before they run so the pursuer can’t follow

It’s not a combat god, it’s still only half a ton and needs to be treated as such

[main helm]

But that's literally what's rn, it can't do anything against apexes

[thin mantle]

Why is that a problem

[main helm]

It doesn't need to be limited to only 10% of the roster

[fierce creek]

LMAO

[main helm]

cause it won't be fun man

[thin mantle]

The isle is not a fighting game

[main helm]

Right now it is

[thin mantle]

It’s a survival game

[main helm]

Survival is the easiest thing in the game unless you wanna go have some fun

[thin mantle]

So survival needs to be more extensive

[main helm]

yeah.

[thin mantle]

Meaning combat needs to not be top priority

Hence the aversion to making Pachy fight everything

When it doesn’t need to nor should it

[main helm]

but literally everything else still will fight

so why single the bonker out

you literally can't get killed by a pachy as a carno if you don't wanna

[thin mantle]

Every single animal in the game has animals it cannot fight

[main helm]

same goes for teno

[thin mantle]

Every single one, some more than others

Pachy is not some exception to the rule

[main helm]

Apparently it is since nothing else would get the same treatment

[thin mantle]

How so

[main helm]

We got galli in the stress test update with a stun heh ( thats not the answer to dat )

[golden coral]

Galli? Cerato? Both playables that aren't the greatest at fighting, or meant to be (well, we'll see about galli, apparently it does lethal bleed, might need a nerf)

[thin mantle]

Stego can’t even fight anything that doesn’t engage it

[main helm]

because it's the strongest, it's an apex

[thin mantle]

Ok so?

[main helm]

.. well rn

[thin mantle]

That still means it literally isn’t allowed to instigate combat

Which is fine

[main helm]

galli does get pinned by utahs tho, so that's a good thing

[golden coral]

What playable do you think would take pachys place?

[golden coral]

It does

[main helm]

Cera is basically a carnivorous pachy from the non stress tester update, but just a lil different

[golden coral]

Far as I've heard at least, galli gets pinned

[main helm]

it has a ability that gets charged up and prevents the other party from attacking them for a certai nduration

and the ability limits their moveability

except it can't intercept, but it's more agile than a bonker tho also i think better stamina

and the main thing there is that hunger of the opposing dino unless it's a cera or deino is the main thing that decides the battle

[golden coral]

So, what playable would you choose over pachy then and why?

If you're concerned that no one will be playing pachy because it's not, good enough at fighting?

[main helm]

literally anything else? if i wanna go for a playstyle where i will hit and run, i'll just choose galli, it's faster, has a better attack basically from how agile you are

and i don't need to hit the thing i am running away from to escape

[thin mantle]

Then you don’t like pachy’s playstyle

That doesn’t mean others don’t

It means you don’t

[main helm]

i mean unless you're a masochist

because i don't think going in for a attack knowing that you're gonna get hit is reassuring

[thin mantle]

Why would I play literally anything but ptera and deino unless I’m a masochist

[main helm]

heh, play solo omni that's a masochist as well

[thin mantle]

Why play anything that is combatively weaker than any other thing

[golden coral]

It's not reassuring, but it's also not terrible, in some cases you might have to at the least risk a trade, and you can handle it, so it's not going to be the end of you in that case

Galli can probably also go in for a kick ,but if the carno hits you, well, you're in severe trouble probably

More than the pachy might be

[thin mantle]

That’s basically assured, Galli headshot hitbox is massive

[main helm]

galli is heckin zooming tho, unlike with pachy you can get a hit off very safely without getting hit, unless you don't bait at all or just leeroy it

[thin mantle]

Ok….and?

You’re describing challenges Pachy has to overcome as if they’re intrinsically problematic

I just see them as skill expression waiting to be had

Everything is going to have different animals it struggles with more than others

[main helm]

.. but still the thing is that nobody will play pachy cause you can't really do anything

[thin mantle]

Which is objectively false

[fierce creek]

I think Pachy trading a hit for a fracture is fine the problem is how inconsistant fractures are.

[main helm]

it would be fine, if pachy took less time to grow

you're just getting a dino that is not worth the amount of time you invest in it at all

[main helm]

desync's lovely indeed

[thin mantle]

it is to me

[main helm]

You hate pachy

[thin mantle]

No I like pachy

That's why this change excites me

[main helm]

You're in a toxic relationship with pachy then

[thin mantle]

I miss having to try.....

[fierce creek]

Because the ultimate goal is to survive the encounter and a leg break or body fracture highly increases those odds. So imo taking a hit for thta big of an advantage is worth it

[main helm]

But you can literally just die for succeeding in doing that

because of the recovery that comes from the impact

[fierce creek]

Not that I don't believe you but could you send a video of a carno successfully biting said pachy 3 times in that amount of time

[main helm]

well that's impossible but unless you got more than 50% hp you're gonna die pretty sure

... and teno can kick you once, which makes you fall down, which it then gets another 2 kicks

[fierce creek]

The teno match up should be a harder fight then carno imo

[main helm]

and cera is just gonna bite you two times at least, which unless you got high hunger although i don't know how much pachy needs to get bit there, you're gonna vomit which basically allows the cera to run you down

[thin mantle]

Which doesn't matter

[main helm]

ye and it is rn, which is great

[fierce creek]

just run from cera lmao

[thin mantle]

You don't have to fight them

[main helm]

pachy takes a whoopin hour to grow, it literally deserves to be some sort of threat

[fierce creek]

thats pretty short

[main helm]

... yeah it is in comparison

[fierce creek]

Dryo is what 30-40 min?

[thin mantle]

No it doesn't

It deserves viability

Which it has

[main helm]

i think so, honestly it should be shorter or just be more fun

[fierce creek]

the only pachy matchups that should really matter are carno, Omni, and ig troodon

as it can easily just outrun everything else

[main helm]

everything has viability if it only just runs away

[thin mantle]

The only one of those that's even remotely challenging is carno

[main helm]

.. except for apexes that are literally made for combat only

[fierce creek]

yep as it should be

[main helm]

Pachy needs it's stun back, just without the stun lock and no intercepting a carno charge

[thin mantle]

Not true, the prior version of cerato in the ST demolished teno because it demonstrably won in 1v1s and teno was both slower with less stamina, it has been adjusted so that teno has the advantage in that fight

[main helm]

or get the update where if it did that it would get a body frac

[fierce creek]

But not always going to be viable due to high requirements

[main helm]

a lot of tenos are pretty panicky and pretty sure that even really great tenos that would go against something that they haven't fought before wouldn't know how to fight there either, teno's one of the main dinos where experience gives it a extreme difference, but i do agree with teno having the advantage in the 1v1 against cera, just like against carno

[main helm]

tis still a mystery why we got stego as one of the first dinos

[fierce creek]

Pretty sure it was just complete

[main helm]

.. except for the obvious in that it was complete

[fierce creek]

and why wait 3 years when something is already complete

[thin mantle]

Stego is also one of the games more balanced animals

It just has nothing to do

[fierce creek]

Stego is still the most bal animal in the game

[main helm]

pretty sure that stego is downgraded rn, just like deino is

[thin mantle]

It is yes

Tho i'd be mad if deino got buffed

[main helm]

since none of the other apexes or just matchups that it would have aren't in so it needs to be a mini version

[fierce creek]

How so first time hearing of this

[main helm]

I think the staff team quite literally mentioned that deino and stego will get damage buffs in the future but they are scaled down rn to fit the balance of the available roster better

not sure about stego, but def about deino with the bite force

[fierce creek]

Ohh

I thought you meant they got nerfs in 6.5

[main helm]

don't mention that, it's taboo, you never know what wildcard they're gonna pull out with balance patches

.. that is a joke if it wasn't obvious which it's probs not cause sarcasm over text is quite the subject

[fierce creek]

Yea hopefully stego gets something unique to it

rn its pretty barebones

[main helm]

other than having cute juvies that are satisfying to murder, unless the player makes themselves look pitiful or funny enough.

[flint quartz]

@coral lodge Carno is already receiving a nerf in 6.5

[main helm]

it's the bite speed nerf no?

[flint quartz]

bite speed, and charge stam cost

1 charge takes 10% stam

[fierce creek]

And its accel

[flint quartz]

yep

[primal token]

How is Omni better now? I heard something about buck nerf and old agility back?

[keen plover]

No missed pounce recovery as well, not to mention your main predator isn't that threatening as long as you're aware. Also it's a lot more easier to kill Carnos now when compared to update 5, which was probably Carno's 'worst' update.

[warped wharf]

regarding cera's "issues," I think the majority of alleged complaints stem from the fact a lot of people are playing it incorrectly. They're playing it like a hit & run, one-shotting "surprise" predator akin to carno when its ideal playstyle is probalmore like that of a hyena or komodo dragon with the literal sceptic bite mechanic.

they're supposed to run down their prey with their high stamina and inflict the bile-bacteria mechanic until it has no choice but to "give in" and practically accept death. their hunts are clearly supposed to be a gradual process.

but even then, cerato looks like could still use a minor buff or two regarding defense/weight or speed, and chuffing is still a pointless addition in general for the time being. Maybe make a heavily bacteria-inflicted prey item significantly easier to smell or detect - like what they've done with troodon and heavily envenomated targets?

meanwhile galli's gonna need some nerfs and they really need to focus on fleshing out dryo's mechanics for the next update. predators like carno, troodon and omni seemingly depend on small prey items like dryo - but nobody plays it despite its insane growth rates, because its a boring, shallow creature to play.

[thin mantle]

Buffing cerato’s speed would be a massive mistake

[keen plover]

I'd be fine with it if it wasn't designed around being a Carno counter. (Going off dev comments and how this thing performs in damage terms)

[thin mantle]

It’s mainly because of how it effects Pachy and tenos matchups with it

Those would suffer dramatically if Cerato were faster

[keen plover]

Yeah, but mainly due to its power tbf. The guy has to be stronger to fend off Carno, which in turns means its better at fighting Teno

Also... The run times for Cera are long right now

The guy runs for 105 seconds rn

[thin mantle]

Which is fine, it should be quite powerful it was always meant to be defensively oriented

It’s just not, because it’s quite fast for what it’s capable of

So it doesn’t actually need to be

[keen plover]

It stil runs down Teno and well

A lot of people who haven't played the build assume Teno does it to Cera, but most of the videos I've seen are not even full grown Ceras being run down

[thin mantle]

Teno can’t even really play aggressively even against slower targets

[keen plover]

A cera at full stamina runs down a Teno. While a Teno can't do the same. Literally tested it

[thin mantle]

Because none of its relevant attacks can be used in pursuit

[keen plover]

Exactly

[thin mantle]

Like I think it’s almost a definitively better state for the teno Cerato relationship for teno to be faster

[keen plover]

People are saying buff its HP since it's slower.... It runs 0.1km/h slower while also having a longer run time

[thin mantle]

Because teno is much more an obligate defender than Cera is

[thin mantle]

Oh I’m not sure why it’d need an hp buff when it can lock an attacker out of so much of their uptime with vomit

[warped wharf]

Thinking about it, you'r right - buffing speed is a mistake

[thin mantle]

Vomit is the strongest form of stun in the game atm

Unless you count lunge

[keen plover]

Oh it is. Especially when a cera is on top of you. 3 free bites

[thin mantle]

Mhm, which it has no issue doing because of its agility, attack speed, and the nerf to stuns

Meaning you’re barely even gonna get a second hit in before it’s already moving

Which is enough space to continue holding W

[keen plover]

Oh yeah, Cera also has a better base stamina regen

And the stamina decay build which is infinitely easier for carnivores to attain

[thin mantle]

And tracks vomit, etc

[warped wharf]

speaking of pachy - either its stun is going to have to make a comeback or it's going to have to get better bacteria/venom/bleed resistence if it's expected to have any chance against ceratos and buffed troodons & omnis.

[thin mantle]

It’s honestly fine as is

It’s not struggling

[keen plover]

I'm telling you right now Pachy is GOOD as is

[thin mantle]

It’s matchups against Troodon and Omni are unchanged from U6 (not in the case of Troodon but yknow what I mean)

[keen plover]

Omni is a stomp 1 v 1 still

[thin mantle]

Pachy is one of the best combatants against troo because it just one taps them

[warped wharf]

hm really? even with the recent troodon buffs?

[keen plover]

Troodons are easy in small groups

[warped wharf]

I know pachy fared very well against troodon prior to the new buffs

[keen plover]

Of course a full pack has the potential to delete you, but that's 10 v 1

[thin mantle]

Plus pachy’s typically aren’t on their own

[keen plover]

Yeah

[thin mantle]

You’re not doing anything to 2 pachy’s no matter the number of troos

[warped wharf]

good point

[keen plover]

Troodon is only truly meant to hunt solo targets

[thin mantle]

Mhm, which is what I like it for

I actually preferred weaker troo but…yknow

It’s not gamebreaking

[keen plover]

I fought 10 of them and won. Had 5% health as a Teno

[warped wharf]

perhaps its just personal bias as I generally go solo

[keen plover]

But I needed to use terrain to win. In the open I would have died

[thin mantle]

Which is still something you should be able to achieve

Especially with Pachy

[warped wharf]

true

[keen plover]

Omni's are probably the scariest matchup you can face as Teno as they'll just delete you in small groups

Like good luck reacting to them

[thin mantle]

3 was enough for your typical teno who achieved the skill floor of the animal

Now that’s probably around 1.5-2

[keen plover]

I struggled against 2

Won, but they also could have won

[warped wharf]

I guess I'm just worried about losing some of the solo potential around some dinosaurs

[thin mantle]

Oh I am as well, but some are worse off than others

[warped wharf]

struggling against 2 sounds like a balance issue honestly; should be more like 4

[thin mantle]

Like Cera, deino, ptera, Carno, Omni, Pachy, beipi, and Galli are all fine solo

[keen plover]

If a full pack spots you and you're not by a good area, just alt f4

[thin mantle]

I only don’t say teno because it’s kit has sorta been rendered a bit redundant by Cerato and the pouncers

[warped wharf]

granted some dinos clearly aren't meant for solo play anyway, so eh

[thin mantle]

But everything should be viable solo regardless

[keen plover]

I would love Teno more if its kit was actually something you could use

Like swimming

[thin mantle]

Would love diving teno

[keen plover]

Damn Deino man

[thin mantle]

Poor….every coming semi aquatic

Deino kinda just….deinos them out of existence

[warped wharf]

teno does feel like it could use maybe one more move going for its kit, or more survival adaptability. it really should be a very decent swimmer since its supposed to be viable in swamps

[thin mantle]

It’s not even a lack of attack variety, it’s just that they’ve given most of its necessary combatants easy ways to counter it as balance progresses without anything to compensate

[warped wharf]

for real, one of the next additions after update 7 should be sucho or bary; deino needs some actual competition and I doubt beipi will do much outside of taking out a few solo juvie deinos here and there.

[thin mantle]

Deino can’t be competed with tbf

[warped wharf]

hell maybe spino

[thin mantle]

It’s growth stages are insanely powerful, easy to grow, and deino is sorta the sole owner of it’s hunting niche

[warped wharf]

I mean we're already getting rex on community servers if update 7 goes well; might as well release spino on top of it

[thin mantle]

Spino also just acts as an obstacle to be swam around more than a legitimate threat

I say this with all certainty, spino would’ve been better for U3 than deino even if both are terrible picks

Because you can see spino

[warped wharf]

good point, I really do think deino should give off a short, momentary abmush indicator that gives a well-timed player a small window of opportunity to escape

example being - a targeted player can hear PoT's sarco make a momentary growl from underwater before it goes in for the kill. Deino needs something like that - just a 2-second visual or audio indicator.

[keen plover]

Feel like a sweeping attack would make more sense than a slam at times

At least with how mobile Omni is now

[thin mantle]

Oh I agree

But at that point, what is slam for

Just a higher damage variant of the same ability? Because that’s sorta what kick is

[warped wharf]

yeah that was honestly my thought as well, teno could benefit from a tail sweep attack - perhaps it provides a small aoe knockback rather than a stun

or no AOE at all, just damage really

as long as it isn't as slow as the stun

[thin mantle]

Like since pounce has zero limits to location, it has to have some form of knockdown or knock back to prevent that

Because you could just tank through sweep and keep going ktherwise

[slim dragon]

Teno needs its concept art turning Tailslam

[thin mantle]

That’d be neat

[slim dragon]

I feel like it would also look cooler

[thin mantle]

Basically slam and sweep in 1

[keen plover]

Oh yeah, that

[thin mantle]

Using your tail like a sword instead of twerking the enemy to death would probably look more visually appealing

I adore teno to death but that’s always made me laugh a little

[keen plover]

Also Omni's taking damage and still being able to pounce you is lame

They should be baiting out attacks to get in

[thin mantle]

Pounce as an ability really feels undercooked

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/glavenus-monster-hunter-gif-19996372

[thin mantle]

I’ve been waiting for the glavenus teno era since update 1

[slim dragon]

Same

Glavenus in The Isle when
It would be balanced I promise

[thin mantle]

The hyper stans would disagree

[warped wharf]

the pounce mechanic needs a rework from the ground-up really.

still too buggy and glitchy

[slim dragon]

(offtopic but I think MH has the BEST exaggerated yet realistic-ish monster animations ever)

[main helm]

feel like it doesn't have the tail swipe because something else is supposed to be unique for having it

[thin mantle]

No detail is overlooked with those animations, at least at this point, it’s always impressed me

[slim dragon]

I still don't know how they manage to have a 20-meter T-rex jump 6 meters into the air while breathing fire and manage to make it look believable

[warped wharf]

another problem of having a needlessly overbloated roster

[keen plover]

Creatures having similar attacks are not a problem. Difference in size, niches + additional quirks can make up for a playable being similar in one attack

[thin mantle]

It’s moreso how it operates logistically, you can pounce any part of the animal for identical reward, because of how its hitboxes generate its very difficult to attack the pouncer mid pounce because the interaction between the part of the animal that’s attacking and the Omni will land the pounce as a result without trading for the damage, and it’s a system that simply wont work for the animals lacking the range and maneuverability to either hit the pouncer on approach or dodge

[thin mantle]

Everything in the entire game has a bite, for example

[keen plover]

Yeah that

[thin mantle]

Both Pachy and Carno have ram esq attacks

Troodon and Omni pounce

Far too many existing and planned animals have pins

Etc etc

[keen plover]

I'd also love to hear a whip sound whenever a Teno hits to the side lol

Not bob apa type of sound though, since it sounds like a straight up whip sound bite

[warped wharf]

pachy and carno's playstyles will drastically differentiate once humans actually become playable - as will troodon from omni

[thin mantle]

It’s just funny how the game consistently progresses away from making teno work

At no flaw of its own, it’s just being powercept

[warped wharf]

the problem is that we don't really have combat-effective humans & interactive, elaborate human structures yet.

[main helm]

Still surprised that they did a amazing job at making teno look cool.

[thin mantle]

Oh let’s not go into humans

That’s a fiery hell storm I don’t wanna walk into rn

[main helm]

no pew pews from an AK?

[keen plover]

It's so cool. But it could be cooler

[thin mantle]

[warped wharf]

pachy and troodon will function well as effective and reliable intruders for human structures & areas

[thin mantle]

Yes, that’s all I’ll say

[warped wharf]

but yeah that's a different can of worms in itself

[slim dragon]

Bonking humans into the stratosphere is the most satisfying experience I ever had as a pachy

[main helm]

We need to get a dryo dictator when humans come out so people will play them again just to pester the monkeys

[thin mantle]

Or something as absurd as Amatsu literally levitating and firing a hydro jet that slices mountains apart

My belief still goes unsuspended

[slim dragon]

I haven't played MH frontier, tho, is that the monster that is so powerful that the only way to kill it is to have it kill itself ?

Ah, no it was Shantien

[thin mantle]

No Amatsu is from 4th Gen….I can’t remember which game specifically

Or no was it 3rd?

I can’t remember, big floaty storm dragon with an affinity for hydro jets

https://tenor.com/view/amatsu-amatsumagatsuchi-monster-hunter-monster-hunter-portable3rd-elder-dragon-gif-21328359

[slim dragon]

Yeah not the same thing
But still badass

[clear lichen]

@pallid bane Why should I get a debuff for defending myself? eg: what if im a stego just chillin’ and another stego comes up and whacks me in the head with it’s tail, I fight back and kill it, so basically by your thinking I win that fight but I still get punished for no reason and gotta suffer because some bored-out-his-mind-joe-shmoe decided that I look like a jelly doughnut, just waiting to get harassed. I do not understand your logic m8

[hollow canyon]

@glad holly yea we should be able to see those but the devs don't want us to know those numbers to prevent a "meta" from rising up due to our knowledge of those numbers. Of course it doesn't work like that and people in the know are aware of the damage output of attacks by testing them.

Also - Teno's kick is 275 dmg, not 300

[median swan]

The pounce fail animation was NOT something we said was bad, in fact, without recovery time it's so unbalanced
i mean it needs better animation since it looks weird before

[hollow canyon]

@stone forum isn't it obvious? That's so that it can be nerfed again in the next update while Carno gets buffed so that 2 updates from now we can have Omni buffed again and Carno nerfed again - the cycle continues.

[stone forum]

I know, and that is stupid

Like just balance it breh xD

[hollow canyon]

I know

Carno only needed a nerf to its hitbox and perhaps an initial stam cost for activating the charge, while Omni needed the changes you've mentioned.

Now we're back to the reversed 6.0 balance

and just have to await the 7.0 to revert that and 7.5 to get us back here

[stone forum]

^yep :l

[hollow canyon]

#thecycle

[ashen frigate]

@analog arrow I almost died while reading your paragraph 😭

[analog arrow]

Lol

[frail bobcat]

Use this: . : ,
PLEASE

[analog arrow]

@frail bobcat maybe

[pallid bane]

its not for people that defend themselves. Your being conceded in your thinking. its not about the defender its about people that go around KoS people. Not everything is about you specifically. Duh that would be dumb for a defender to get that debuff, not waht i meant. So maybe just ask what I mean instead of getting defensive about it. have a good day lmao.

[slim dragon]

Also

[slim dragon]

But how would the game tell apart a KOSer from someone who is defending thesmelves against a KOSer ?

[slim dragon]

But how would the game tell apart a KOSer from someone who is defending thesmelves against a KOSer ?

[slim dragon]

But how would the game tell apart a KOSer from someone who is defending thesmelves against a KOSer ?

[pallid bane]

idk, dont spam. thats somthing to talk about lmao

[slim dragon]

But how would the game tell apart a KOSer from someone who is defending thesmelves against a KOSer ?

[pallid bane]

also ya it is. Punchpacket isnt the pope

im gonna report you man\

[slim dragon]

sry it's Discord being weird

[pallid bane]

post from 2021 btw

ya it is wth

[slim dragon]

Everyone right now is sending double triple or more messages

[pallid bane]

right wth thats weird lol

[slim dragon]

Everyone right now is sending double triple or more messages

[pallid bane]

post from 2021 btw

[slim dragon]

sry it's Discord being weird

[pallid bane]

your good mine is too

ya it is wth

[alpine sleet]

did they nerf carnos besides the initial stam cost and fixing the hitbox?

[thin mantle]

It’s bleed output was nerfed

[alpine sleet]

oh

[thin mantle]

Which is good

But unfortunately Carno isn’t balanced to perform the roll it’s meant for at all rn

[alpine sleet]

i mean carno doesnt use bleed to kill its not that importan

important*

[thin mantle]

Mhm, nor should it

Ideally it’s bursting down smaller squishier targets and pursuing them if necessary

[alpine sleet]

i know i have seen videos and people use it more as an ambush predator

[thin mantle]

Which is such a headache

Carno is a hilariously unfitting ambush predator

[alpine sleet]

why is it to op?

or doesnt works that well?

[thin mantle]

It just doesn’t fit Carno

Here lemme paint a picture

[alpine sleet]

alr

like anatomically you mean?

[thin mantle]

What is Carno:
Large
Very fast
Has poor agility but not so much that it can’t compensate with raw speed
Lives in the most open and flat biome in the game with the least amount of cover and the most visibility even at night.
Has an ability, charge, that deals a high damage value on top of applying a stun that sets the target up for follow up hits.
Has the fastest starvation timer in the roster.

Carno is in this mess Aldo’s opposed to primarily hunt smaller creatures

Carno exists as a contradiction

Charge is best user against slower targets that struggle to dodge it because you’re always going to see or hear a charge coming if you have basic spatial awareness

Meaning it’s only out of ambush utilities are in group fights and against slower larger targets

This is the opposite of what Carno is intended to specialize in

[alpine sleet]

a yes i see seems like a mess to balance

[thin mantle]

It’s high speed and affinity for open areas suggest it favors smaller faster targets to pursue, but it’s starvation timer doesn’t allow that to be sustainable, and it’s power against animals closer to its size or slightly above heavily encourage it to ignore those smaller prey items

Carno just needs a niche realignment with a roster of changes

Mostly changed to charge and it starvation

[alpine sleet]

what if they made it weaker against mid tier so it focuses on small creatures? like by example the carge only staggers a teno

[thin mantle]

Charge just straight up shouldn’t knockdown animals above half its own size, it shouldn’t hit as hard as it does, but it also shouldn’t cripple carnos stamina as much as it does now

So it can be used more often but to a narrower range of creatures effectively

[alpine sleet]

yes makes sense like encouraging carnos to chase its prey

[thin mantle]

Mhm

Especially with how barren and flat gateways plains are

Ambush Carno is going to die and stay dead

[alpine sleet]

maybe they consider a fix for carno on the update where they will update old playables

i forgot its name

quality of life

[hollow canyon]

turn rate on top of that and it accelerates slower, it got a whole plate of different nerfs combined from what I've heard

[drifting thorn]

Juvi Carno with 29 % knockdown a Fully grown Omni and got hit for 30% hp... if they do not balance this they will call this game the Carno Isle

[fierce creek]

thanks for repeating yourself

[main helm]

Did anyone test if you can one shot a pachy by using the charged up bite as cera when it goes in for a hit? Or is it just left on like 10% hp

[primal token]

What do people mean by Omni getting its agillity back, nothing happend to its speed and I haven’t noticed anything different with its movement?

[thin mantle]

It turns better

[keen plover]

It doesn't one shot a Pachy. leaves it at around 40% health

[primal token]

Aight thanks

[drifting thorn]

https://youtu.be/MGH93uXPy6I Everytime he hit something he get a bite even hitting that Cera on back u got another bite .. U call this viable??? U all Carno Lovers …

[cosmic pelican]

We've seen it, no need to post it in every channel...

[main helm]

They're pretending to be heavily complaining just so they can advertise better, ingenius idea.

[cosmic pelican]

I'd say its bait

[keen plover]

🤔 Didn't see him die to a Cera or Carno in that video. Seems viable 👍

[main helm]

The fact that in the worst case scenario you need more than 80% hp to get a hit off on a cera doesn't sound that great tho.

[cosmic pelican]

I dont get why people miss u6 pachy
Its not even fun to play...it just stomps everything

[cosmic pelican]

Other option is press w+shift
The cera has no way to catch up

[main helm]

Did anyone try killing pachys as a galli in the new version btw? Seems like it'd be a bit of a pain for the pachy with the nerfed ram agility

[keen plover]

You can kill them easily in a 1 v 1

2 -3 Galli's can kill you though

[main helm]

oh boi.

[keen plover]

They do a lot of bleed

and deal a decent amount of damage

[cosmic pelican]

Cant pachy just knock down galli?

[main helm]

How you gonna do that when it's even faster and probs more agile

[cosmic pelican]

Even with just a body frac that galli is done

[keen plover]

Galli is not agile

[main helm]

was about to say i take back the agility, i forgot how it is there

[cosmic pelican]

Time the bonk or predict where they will move after they kick or before

[keen plover]

Alt swing will knock them down iirc

[cosmic pelican]

If kicks has priority over ram tho...

[keen plover]

They don't

[cosmic pelican]

Thank God

[keen plover]

I'd avoid a Pachy as Galli

You're not winning the fight.

[cosmic pelican]

What about a galli herd tho?
A pachy will just...die

[keen plover]

Yeah. Numbers win in that case

[tropic horizon]

I mean yeah almost anything can kill anything with enough numbers

[cosmic pelican]

Only if spiro wasnt a bad map...

[keen plover]

Agreed. You're forced into a lot of things

Plains Pachy is bad.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah you’re just asking to die at that point

Which is funny

Because a lot of its food

…is in open fields.

[drifting thorn]

He did not die because he let his friend die instead 😂.. So you need someone to die for you in order to defend your self .. Yeah viable…

[cosmic pelican]

You can also just press w+shift and either outrun or outmaneuver them

[drifting thorn]

In the real world after playing pachy for at least 600hours i said he need stun at least on fractures after the dino is fracture no more stun because leg fracture it is not 100% even if u hit the leg.

[cosmic pelican]

You dont need a leg fracture to escape

Even a body fracture is enough

Pachy can juke even u6 carno pretty well

[drifting thorn]

Every time u hit u get a bite on ur head watch the video unless u have some to die for you.. But if u said u can do that send me the clip ..

[cosmic pelican]

I dont need a clip for that
And it would be useless to this discussion since carno in u6 has basically nothing to do with carno in u6.5
Since its charge turn radious and accelaration have been nerfed its very easy to dodge for smaller, more agile animals (like how u5 carnos charge was almost useless beacuse turning with it was basically impossible), paired with the charges now drastically increased stamina cost the carno will not be able to run after you after missing 2-3 charges.
Carno is only really a threat if it ambushes you and if that happens pachy is dead even if it could stun

[golden coral]

Isn't pachy faster than cera?

[cosmic pelican]

By like 1km

Or something along those lines

But definetly faster

[golden coral]

So it's only really carno that's the threat then?

[cosmic pelican]

Yep

Wouldnt call carno a threat tho

Juking it is decently easy

[keen plover]

??? I’m confused when did the other pachy die?

When they broke their own leg in front of a cera?

[main helm]

the only thing that vid doesn't show is a fight against competent carnos tho

[tropic horizon]

What are those?

[main helm]

heh

[keen plover]

Just face the Carno and tank a hit to give it a body fracture

Then run to the new update 6.5 bushes

[tropic horizon]

“V i a b l e”

[keen plover]

And you’ll pretty much evade them through it

[main helm]

The tank and run strats.

[keen plover]

Yeah. That’s viable is it not?

You can also outturn it

And avoid being hit all together

Staggers caused more issues than anything good

[main helm]

Yeah, solo bonkers should deal fine with solo carnos even the competent ones unless they get ambushed, but it's kinda a death sentence against 2 carnos that aren't even adult but can knock you over

also btw, quick question does the uh, cera charged bite give it resistance against carno charge?

[keen plover]

Nope

[tropic horizon]

Good

[main helm]

no idea why i see so many carnos dodge them then

[keen plover]

2 Carnos is death, yeah

You’re not escaping them solo

Unless they play awful