balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

Kills carnos and tenos with ease as long as the pachy ain't literally dumb

[thin bough]

I think you may be playing AI servers 💀

[dusky surge]

There's AI only officials?

which ones

[keen plover]

So you're saying Omni has the advantage against Pachy?

[thin bough]

Depends on the skill level, an experienced Omni will pretty much never lose a pachy fight unless they pick shitty terrain to fight on.

All they have to do is get a solid pounce or two and the fight is already over

[thin mantle]

What did I just witness…

I didn’t know you could perceive Pachy as balanced this update

[thin bough]

The only thing they even have going for them is the headbutt which is arguably easy to avoid if you aren’t a literal ape 💀

[dusky surge]

its scary that he isnt ironic

genuinely thinks pachy is not only balanced, but slightly weak

[thin bough]

I’d say it’s strong in packs

Solo it’s weak

Like most herbivores

[dusky surge]

thats not true of any herbi besides maybe dryo and hypsi lol

[thin bough]

Teno can be killed by a solo Omni 💀

[dusky surge]

it can, if its very dumb and the omni is VERY good

[thin mantle]

Carno isn’t agile enough to dodge a Pachy ram if it’s attempting to kill one, ram animation cancels every attack in the game below apex tier, which effectively means neither Carno nor teno can fight it, teno most of all since Pachy is faster than teno, which is literally the reason why teno isn’t viable rn, it can’t run, it can’t fight. A solo Carno vs a solo Pachy is a onesided curbstomp, Carno can’t deal damage to Pachy if the Pachy can press a single button.

Alt animation cancels and stuns Pachy, it’s such a hard counter it’s not even funny, that one in particular isn’t even really an issue since that’s sorta the point of Pachy…but overall Pachy can comfortably be categorized as the strongest playable in the game rn if only deino didn’t exist

As far as it’s influence over the rest of the roster nothing but deino can contest Pachy

[unkempt sierra]

Nerf deino stego and Carno please

[dusky surge]

deino, yes, carno, yes, stego, no

[unkempt sierra]

Nerf packs

[thin mantle]

Why nerf stego

[dusky surge]

stego bad

[thin mantle]

Grass = weak

[unkempt sierra]

As a stego main trust me it’s op

[keen plover]

What type of nerfs

[unkempt sierra]

Literally chase full grown deinos in the water

[thin mantle]

As someone who plays stego on occasion but mostly plays Omni, stego isn’t op

[thin mantle]

That’s literally it’s purpose in the game

If it couldn’t deino would be even more broken than it is

[unkempt sierra]

Invulnerable juggernaut with 1250 damage AoE attack no skill or risk required

[keen plover]

What type of nerfs would you give it though?

[dusky surge]

so deino but weaker

[keen plover]

All I see is nerf. What nerfs

[thin mantle]

Even if that were true that wouldn’t even make it overpowered….not in this game

Necessarily

[unkempt sierra]

We’ll it’s complicated @keen plover

[thin bough]

Are we gonna ignore the fact one properly timed ram and a pachy is pretty much dead 💀 have you ever considered maybe a carno shouldn’t be trying to go B4b in an open plain against something that can out maneuver it.

[thin mantle]

And Pachy only needs one poorly timed ram to basically end a Carno, because it hard counters charge

[keen plover]

If both dinos are aware of each other, Pachy wins the trade for charge.

[thin mantle]

As an animal a 4th the size

[keen plover]

As long as you look around, 1 v 1, a Carno isn't that scary

You can even kill the thing if they commit to the fight

[unkempt sierra]

Carno and raptor can’t kill steg at all, even when you are like 2.1 tons as a steg you can comfortably kill any land carnivores

[thin mantle]

Omni can kill stego, deino can solo one

[thin bough]

Omni can defo kill stego

[thin mantle]

Plus that doesn’t even make it necessarily overpowered

This isn’t a fighting game

[dusky surge]

carno is a small game hunter. that's not a surprise it's not good at stego killing

[keen plover]

Stegos main issue is the map

and no migration

[unkempt sierra]

I’ve gone 145-1 as a stegosaurus vs deino you are dead wrong @thin mantle

[thin mantle]

Basically

[keen plover]

Go fight it in an open field as a raptor pack. You will drop the thing

[keen plover]

1 v 1, I don't see the issue

[thin bough]

Stego has an advantage for sure but it’s defo not impossible to kill a stego

[unkempt sierra]

Ohh it will be 3v1 and 4v1

[thin mantle]

Tbf the deino needs to outplay the stego, but stego is supposed to be stronger anyway

[unkempt sierra]

It don’t matter

[thin bough]

^

[thin mantle]

Oh they deserved to die, that’s embarassing

[keen plover]

Deserved

[dusky surge]

imagine dying as the deinos in that situation loool

[thin bough]

If you lose a 3v1 against a stego as deino it’s a skill issue

[thin mantle]

Imagine dying as a deino

[dusky surge]

true lol

imagine seeing death as anything but an option

[thin mantle]

The ptera of the rivers

[unkempt sierra]

Ohh ya the 3 8k health pool deinos get rocked by a 6k heath stego because the steg has 1250 AoE attack totally deserved not op @keen plover

[thin bough]

Canis

[unkempt sierra]

And headshot multiplayer

Multiplier

[thin mantle]

I feel like your proving my point….the odds were SO in the deinos favor and they lost

[dusky surge]

yea because the deino being able to do 4000 damage in a single attack is wayyy more balanced

[thin mantle]

Lunge moment

[keen plover]

Body block the thing, Surround it. Use lunge to stun it as one (for a short window) and let the other 2 get to the head

There's a few things you can do

[thin bough]

Stegos should have an advantage considering it’s size and defense 💀

[thin mantle]

You can even solo if you’re good enough

[keen plover]

Yes^ If they're drinking, you can get to their head and pressure them to at least run

[dusky surge]

i ran at a stego and im the bigger animal why didnt i win

[unkempt sierra]

Idk I farm deinos like it’s nothing on na6 and na5

No fear what so ever

[thin bough]

Have we taken into account some people are brain dead

[thin mantle]

Because deino players in general are very bad, it’s the playable that requires the least skill to achieve maximum value

[dusky surge]

these are deino players

[unkempt sierra]

Don’t get more brain dead than stegosaurus @thin bough

[thin mantle]

In the whole roster

[dusky surge]

yes it does, deinosuchus

[thin mantle]

The fact that stego can even be attacked by terrestrial animals makes it categorically harder than deino

[keen plover]

I was beating on 4 deinos originally in this, but another 5+ showed up. The players just suck

There were more in the water. If they were smart, I would have died.

[thin bough]

Omnis (if they know what they are doing) can easily kill an inexperienced stego

[thin mantle]

I can’t even fathom 9 deinos existing on a single server even being remotely ok

[keen plover]

There was more

[unkempt sierra]

Catch “inexperienced” @thin bough

[thin bough]

While I mean if they stick there head in a rock not much you can do 💀

[unkempt sierra]

That’s the one thing you need in order to win “inexperienced player”

[thin mantle]

God….man I hope deino actually requires some form of challenge someday

[dusky surge]

the fact stego can bleed at a normal rate makes it harder

[thin mantle]

Well yeah, ideally a good stego never really dies to omnis

Stego can’t pick it’s fights, so if it knows what it’s doing and avoids bad circumstances it shouldn’t die

That’s how you balance slow playables around fast ones typically

[thin bough]

^

If ur playing stego and you die imo it’s just a skill issue tbh

[thin mantle]

And heals slower as well

[keen plover]

I just wish you could wait stegos out in packs. Like both their water and hunger timers are too high. I can accept the hunger timer, but let the water timer be 45 minutes

[unkempt sierra]

@thin mantle Carno is the same way vs raptor, Carno has an unbelievable advantage

[dusky surge]

thats because it's bugged to hell and back

[unkempt sierra]

Too much health pool and damage

[thin bough]

It should though 💀

[thin mantle]

Yes, Carno is omnis only predator, makes sense, and it’s ability is mechanically broken

[dusky surge]

wow, carno, the small game hunter, kills omni, small game

this NEEDS to be rectified

[thin bough]

Carno should have an advantage over raptor as it’s literally triple there size 💀

[dusky surge]

bring us back to U5.5 where omni hunted carno ofc

[unkempt sierra]

So why would you make a Dino knowing you are gonna be at a massive disadvantage why would you run anything but stego and Carno and deino? @thin mantle

[thin bough]

Carno v Omni, 1v1 should be skewed in favor of carno every time

[thin mantle]

Because this isn’t a fighting game, it’s a survival game

You don’t need to combatively match every playable to be viable

That’s not how this game works

[thin bough]

Because Omni is objectively the most fun to play

[unkempt sierra]

@thin bough playing respawn simulator so much fun

[thin mantle]

I don’t know if data on that exists

[thin bough]

(Imo) required the most skill to achieve kills with aswell makes the kill more satisfying

[thin bough]

You are probably just bad at Omni no offense 💀

[keen plover]

While this is true, the current game enforces that idea. What's the point of playing other classes when those 3 do it better? Like outside of them being slow, they're good at everything else (Stego & Deino)

Like the only reason not to play them is because they're boring

[unkempt sierra]

Have not touched omni @thin bough it’s just what I see everyday

[keen plover]

Which is subjective

[thin mantle]

Because you don’t appreciate their playstyles, that would be the reason to not play any animal

[thin bough]

If you have not touched Omni I wouldn’t recommend speaking on balance issues regarding the Omni 💀

[dusky surge]

lmao true

[thin mantle]

Thhe game doesn’t actually encourage battle Royale, that’s just the natural condition of lacking things to do

[keen plover]

Sure, but they're also easy to grow

and maintain

[thin mantle]

Not stego, but yeah deino and Carno are VERY easy to grow

[thin bough]

If you are a good Omni death is a choice tbh

[unkempt sierra]

Idk stegosaurus does not seem balanced what so ever and I have yet to die to a raptor @thin bough

[keen plover]

Stego is imo. Just spawn in at SE, eat S diets and afk grow

30% growth boost

All herbis are easy to grow

[thin mantle]

Well ideally in a game like this death is always a choice, if you play optimally it SHOULD be hard to die

[keen plover]

Everything is *

[thin bough]

Stego is meant to be a trophy kill not something that gets wiped out by everything it touches 💀

[thin mantle]

That’s how it works for everything basically, I wouldn’t constitute the ability to afk grow an advantage since that’s roster wide, if you’re actively growing then it’s much harder to successfully grow a stego than something like a teno, because you spend far more time essentially helpless

[dusky surge]

herbivore

[thin mantle]

Therefor food

[dusky surge]

the nature of things

[thin mantle]

The natural order: Grass = Death

[keen plover]

While true, it's sad how the only thing to stop Stegos from growing and other creatures is due to their fun and not how hard it is.

[thin mantle]

That’s not true, in relative terms stego is probably the hardest animal to grow in the game

[dusky surge]

it def is

[unkempt sierra]

Here would be a good nerf start make it so steg can only hit one thing when it swings

[thin mantle]

Oh god no

[dusky surge]

or maybe dont nerf it haha

[thin mantle]

Doesn’t even change the deino matchup lol

[keen plover]

That's going from very easy to easy

[thin mantle]

It only makes it’s AOE useless

[thin mantle]

Yes, doesn’t change the statement tho

[thin bough]

Herbivore doesn’t = easy kill

[dusky surge]

to many, it does

[thin mantle]

It’s still the hardest thing to grow in a roster that isn’t hard to grow in

[thin bough]

Herbivores are objectively stronger then carnivores in the game currently

[unkempt sierra]

Lol I’ve grown 12 and only lost 1 it’s not hard @thin mantle

[thin mantle]

And?

I’m not sure what that proves?

[unkempt sierra]

It’s not the hardest to grow not the hardest thing to grow in the roster @thin mantle

[thin bough]

Juv stegos solo are the easiest to kill it’s only when they are with other adults that it’s difficult.

[unkempt sierra]

@thin bough 2.1 tons you can kill carnos

[dusky surge]

what is possibly harder

[thin mantle]

Why not? It has the longest period of time in which it spends in its juvi phase that’s susceptible to terrestrial threats, and has negligible AOE till it hits sub adult, rendering its defensive playstyle a weakness than a strength, every other animal either has a significant speed advantage or a growth scaling that gets it out of juvi much quicker

[keen plover]

Tbf stego gets really bulky quickly.

But yeah

Stego is the hardest to grow

[thin mantle]

The small game hunter that (when not bugged) has an equal to unfavorable matchup with a dino smaller than it struggles with a defensive creature larger than it? Makes sense

[thin bough]

Any stego below 50% is Omni/Deino food any below 25% is carno food

[dusky surge]

if you dare say deino is harder than stego to grow i will destroy you

[unkempt sierra]

It does not matter the point is it’s not hard to grow or defend yourself compared to the others in the roster @thin mantle there is so much more risk with the others

[thin mantle]

Yes, but so does everything, the growth scaling is roster wide like that

[thin bough]

Is it realistic for a stego to die most often to a creature weighing nearly 1 ton less then it.

[keen plover]

" every other animal either has a significant speed advantage or a growth scaling that gets it out of juvi much quicker" means that Stego doesn't have that. Which is why I said that

[unkempt sierra]

Pouncing, charging, grabbing, bashing are way more riskier than swinging and AoE attack that does 1250 hp per swing

[keen plover]

While I get you mean Stego is in Juvi longer, it's also HUGE in juvi

[thin bough]

That’s why it takes so long to grow 💀

[thin mantle]

It still applies because stego is a VERY slow juvi, the only other juvi that compares is deino, which is immune to all threats besides deinos anyway

[thin bough]

You get a very powerful creature but it’s a pain in the butt to grow

[unkempt sierra]

Lol so you agree it’s op @thin bough

[thin mantle]

Agreed lol

[thin bough]

Nobody would play stego if you grew it for 6 hours just to die

[keen plover]

Fair

[thin bough]

I think it’s balanced in the games current ecosystem

[thin mantle]

I don’t understand why an animal being really really strong makes it overpowered?

This…is not….a fighting game

[thin bough]

I don’t think everything works in a binary where a deino and stego 1v1 should be fair and a 50/50 toss up

[thin mantle]

There would have to be a balancing discrepancy presented before we could even talk about this

[thin bough]

Some skill should be involved on the carnivores end

[unkempt sierra]

Ya it’s a survival game but why would you pick any other character @thin mantle

[thin mantle]

Stego is also a security measure to prevent land deinos

[thin bough]

Because stego is boring asf 💀

[thin mantle]

Because you find their playstyle more fun, raw power isn’t the only factor contributing to playability

For example, ptera is the second weakest playable but it’s by far the most viable

[unkempt sierra]

Highest survival rate highest damage and isn’t threatened by any land animal @thin mantle

[thin mantle]

And it can fly, which is pretty fun

[thin bough]

Who actually enjoys walking around as a stego

[thin mantle]

Deino and Ptera both have far higher survival rates…damage is irrelevant and it IS threatened by omnis as much as you refuse to believe that can be true

[unkempt sierra]

Idk steg has the highest and lowest risk of being cannibalized @thin mantle

[thin bough]

Deino < 5 Hour Grow Time, very powerful should be able to kill everything

Stego < 5 hour growtime should be killable by a carno weighing in 2 tons less then it

[thin mantle]

That’s literally impossible

You can’t embody both ends of the spectrum

[unkempt sierra]

My bad

[thin mantle]

Stego DOES get cannibalized

Actually that’s how I’ve lost most of mine

[unkempt sierra]

Miss typed highest survival and lowest risk of cannibalism

[thin bough]

Steg on official gets wiped 💀

[thin mantle]

Still wrong, both would belong to ptera

And stego gets cannibalized a LOT

That’s why they’re not particularly common on top of them not being very fun

[unkempt sierra]

Idk I’ve played so much steg we just mega herd and never fight each other

[thin bough]

I wonder why you’ve never died as a steg 💀

Really trying to pick my brain on that one ngl

[thin mantle]

Huh, I wonder why you might thing stego is busted

[thin bough]

^

[thin mantle]

Even then it wouldn’t even be that busted

[unkempt sierra]

I’ve done a lot of solo too

[thin mantle]

Because stego CANNOT be oppressive

It’s not capable of it

Because it can’t run down or pursue anything

And it’s very VERY obvious and has to stop moving to attack

[thin bough]

Mfw when Nothing attacks my herd of 10 stegos 😔

[unkempt sierra]

Idk I literally live at the water side nw

Not scared of the deinos

[thin mantle]

Anecdotal, you haven’t run into good deinos

[unkempt sierra]

I have

[thin mantle]

Clearly not if you have a carefree attitude about water

[thin bough]

NW deinos are all monkeys 💀

[unkempt sierra]

Just tuck your head don’t go in the water

[thin mantle]

It’s funny that if a deino continues to turn while sprinting around the stego while it tries to attack staying on the head, deino has a higher DPS rate

And nobody seems to know this accept the good deinos

[unkempt sierra]

If they are good and coordinated just don’t play risky and use your massive health yo your advantage and kite them if they try to chase

[thin bough]

So run away, 💀

[thin mantle]

That’s the point, you’re supposed to be tanky and hard to kill, as a trade off you can’t be oppressive in basically any way

What’s the problem with just turning around and walking

[thin bough]

Stego is only good for not dying

It’s not good in any other way

That doesn’t make it OP

[thin mantle]

Survival game moment

[unkempt sierra]

Problem there is far more combat much less skill and much less risk compared to the other roster

[thin mantle]

Deino ptera and Carno would like to disagree

They’re all easier to play

[thin bough]

If you sat at the edge of the map eating crabs and turtles all day as an Omni that doesn’t make the Omni OP it just means ur boring 💀

[thin mantle]

Basically

Omni is self sufficient and never gets attacked

Therefor it’s broken with no risk

[thin bough]

If you seek out PVP as a stego rather then running you will eventually die

That’s just how the game works

[thin mantle]

Literally the purpose of size as an animal is to deter attackers because it’s simply not a good idea to attack you

[thin bough]

^

[thin mantle]

And for balance reasons deino cannot be stronger than stego

For a LOT of reasons

[thin bough]

It’s not even slightly realistic 💀

They are just in different weight classes stego has an extra ton over the deino

[thin mantle]

Well

No, deino is bigger

Doesn’t make much of a difference

Niche wise and for the stability of the roster stego sorta needs to kill deino on land otherwise it’d just die on contact with the water

And it wouldn’t be able to effectively police land deinos

Which are a whole other can of worms

[dusky surge]

@remote forge if 2 deinos are dying to a stego, that's major skill issue

[hollow canyon]

^

2 Deinos clap a Stego without much trouble if they have any clue how to play the game

[thin mantle]

It's baffling that the oasis ptsd has lasted this long in the gator playerbase (generally)

[slim dragon]

@dusky surge Ambusher carno suggestion in here just for you

[fresh laurel]

explain

what that ptsd would be for gators

[thin mantle]

People still thinking deino is at all weak or in need of help

[fresh laurel]

deino was weak back in oasis?

huh

[thin mantle]

No

But it’s only location where it could find anyone was oasis

Which it needed to travel across the plains to get to

Where stegos would kill them ritualistically

[fresh laurel]

heh

[strange dust]

how long ago was that?

[thin mantle]

@stone fractal Carno shouldn’t be incentivized through It’s capability to hunt anything larger than itself, especially not stegos as they’re one of the most defensively competent animals in the completed roster and Carno is more than optimized for hunting smaller targets than itself…

Charge is not an ambush ability, it used to but it was changed because Carno having an ability predominantly oriented towards a stealthy approach when it’s an incredibly tall, incredibly loud plains predator….it lives in the most obvious biome on the map, which is why charge is now a pursuit tool, so that it actually services Carno in some way.

[strange dust]

in a sense carno is kinda like the cheetah of dinosaurs. not particularly powerful or robust but speedy enough to hunt small game

[somber sphinx]

Carnos new charge is honestly one of the best changes it has gotten, it is still overtuned as hell but it’s a step into the right decision

[thin mantle]

Indeed, still needs a knockdown reassessment, maybe multiple levels of charge that build up over time, but at the very least a startup cost…would also be neat for there to be consequences for hitting objects with it since the plains don’t have any of those

[strange dust]

yeah

also fixing the hitbox (personally not sure what exactly is wrong with it) but that is a confirmed change i think

[somber sphinx]

Mhm, and then we have our perfect pursuit hunter

[hollow canyon]

quick explanation - this is more or less what's wrong with it:

it's not exactly that big but around that size

you get hit if you make contact anywhere with that rectangle, definitely needs a nerf and it's getting one

[strange dust]

jesus

didn't think it was that wide cuz i've wiffed a lot of charged even if on my end the enemy seemed to be within that rectangle at the time of contact, but that could just be because of latency

[hollow canyon]

I personally think it's half a square smaller on both sides based on my tests

[strange dust]

not sure why it covers almost the entire body though

[hollow canyon]

either way it's way too large

in my experience during testing - roughly a yard and a half to each side of the Carno

[thin mantle]

I always love seeing this image

It’s so horrific

In the funniest way

[hollow canyon]

it is, that hitbox was made back in the day when Carno's charge was a niche garbage ability

I think artificially increasing hitboxes to make something viable

is never the way

[strange dust]

was the testing controlled? as in you found someone willing to help you with the testing or did you just fight a lot of people?

[tall bronze]

Sounds more like a bandaid fix

[strange dust]

yeeeeeeah

[hollow canyon]

no, I was testing it in a controlled environment

all my tests are done in a controlled environment

[thin mantle]

Ideally hitboxes represent the physical object they represent….hence the meaning of the term in the first place

[strange dust]

right

i was willing to believe this particular hitbox was broken even if i don't really have any first-hand experience since it's a frequent complaint and the devs have (apparently) confirmed it'll be fixed, but i didn't think it was that bad

[thin mantle]

Tbf I wouldn’t trust feedback channels on a lot of things balance related

Feedback would have you believe omnis stam drain on buck is a serious issue and that we should return to U5 Omni to balance that

Or that ambush Carno is a good idea

[strange dust]

that's fair

wdym ambush carno? that it should be designed to be an ambush predator (i believe it's supposed to be a pursuit predator atm), or that players shouldn't try to get the drop on potential prey? i'm guessing it's the former but need to make sure

[thin mantle]

The former yes

The most obvious predator in the most obvious biome with the fastest land speed in the game

An ambusher….clearly

[stark knoll]

The ability that requires you to be sprinting to activate
That makes a sound upon activation
On a creature with poor maneuverability
That is very tall and not great at hiding
Or being in dense shrubbery

Yea, the ambusher

[thin mantle]

The assassin

[strange dust]

how loud is the sound queue when a carno initiates charge? does it carry very far?

[thin mantle]

It’s not very loud rn cuz of sound bugs

It wasn’t as audible as an F call and could only really be heard within 10 meters or so, prolly should be louder now

[glossy elbow]

hopefully to be fixed since i feel like sound is one of the things the isle does well so hopefully gets fixed in the future

[glossy elbow]

@elder wadi what are stegos current stats?

[elder wadi]

The ones that relate to my suggestion are:
Heath: 1137 - 4883
Damage: 400 - 1200
(According to the wiki.)

[glossy elbow]

yeah it needs to be nerfed a little bit but its a high tier dino with its growth time being 5 hours base same as dieno so yeah maybe a little bit but they're like anky where they're like walking tanks with a strong tail and dieno's probably the worst balanced with it being able to grab everything but a fully grown stego but uh maybe they could reduce it to 1100 or 1000 idk

[elder wadi]

Yeah. I understand that stego is supposed to be a high tier dino that needs skill to kill, but like I said, it shouldn’t be a walking brick wall.

[glossy elbow]

its supposed to be though its a heavy slow dino that hits like a truck?

like its made to be a brick wall? i get it could be nerfed but not by that much

[elder wadi]

I know. The reason I say it should be nerfed is because of how players interact with each other versus how animals interact with each other. I’m the real world, a herbivore like a stego wouldn’t stand by water with the intention to kill other animals, but players aren’t actual animals. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be a tank that hits hard, I’m just saying that it should have consequences for being dumb and actively attacking animals like deinos. Right now, stego can pretty much do whatever it wants and get away with it because it can 1v1 everything in the game.

[glossy elbow]

oh yeah for sure that should go with every dino but a full grown dieno can kill a stego its not like nothing can kill it

dieno's got like 2000 more health and does about 500 damage at full grown with each bite at least that's what it says on the wiki

[thin mantle]

Yep that's true

Wait why does stego need to be nerfed again?

Stego is probably one of the animals least in need of a nerf in the roster atm

[glossy elbow]

dieno is in most need of a nerf

it can grab about anything except other full adult dienos and stegos

[thin mantle]

True, has been for quite a long time

Not necessarily a direct nerf, moreso environmental optimization

[elder wadi]

That is true. The isle in general is in huge need of balancing, I just wanted to point out stego because it’s more likely that you’ll run into one, since deinos stay in rivers. I believe that both of them are brick walls, it’s just that stego is more prominent because of the fact that it stays on land where most other dinosaurs are.

[thin mantle]

That's exactly why stego doesn't need a nerf, it's obvious and incredibly easy to avoid, deino resides within an essential resource, encounters with it are mandatory

[glossy elbow]

yeah shouldn't be messing with an adult stego if you are not a adult dieno plus about everything can outrun stego

[thin mantle]

Or just a good trio or larger of omnis

[glossy elbow]

yeah

[thin mantle]

Like stego is one of the most easily countered creatures in the game and for some reason people think it's a massive issue

battle royale mindset

[elder wadi]

Why don’t we just go with they both need a nerf? Deino needs a nerf because it makes water feel like a death trap, and stego needs a nerf because it’s tail hits like a mallet. I know stego is easy to avoid, but I’ve been chased by stegos before, since they kept sniffing after my trail, and they can still chase you off food for literally no reason.

[thin mantle]

Because stego doesn't need a nerf....also they can't track so they didn't sniff down your trail, they were either hacking or you didn't do a good job obscuring yourself. Also yes...food taking is going to always be a thing in this game, nerfing stego down to 3-5 tons and bringing its damage down to 750-1000 won't change that at all

Like no matchup of stegos is positively impacted by it being weaker, it has to onetap omnis if it manages to hit them because without an instant kill it's playstyle simply wouldn't function, and it'd still decimate carnos

Plus stegos (for omnis) are actually really easy to kill in the right environmental conditions

If they reach a point you shouldn't pounce them at, wait them out till they need to move

Or otherwise bait them till they get low enough on stam to burst a bit more recklessly

[glossy elbow]

yeah no point in nerfing something that doesn't need to be nerfed if you nerf it to much then no one would play as it

[thin mantle]

Apexes are also coming....meaning stego will only need to get buffed in the future

Nerfing it now would be redundant

Cuz current stego would get demolished by trike and rex...which it shouldn't

[glossy elbow]

the main thing is having the dinos be balanced for their own tier

[elder wadi]

I dunno, maybe I’m just a bad player. I just don’t feel like a playable that can decimate you just because you were eating is fun, especially with this new camera lock mechanic. If the game had more to do than fight and nest (sometimes), I don’t think stego or deino would need nerfs. The problem might also be because the roster is just so small that stronger dinos are way more noticeable.

[thin mantle]

well...no not really, tiers are lame....matchup mechanics are what matter most, like omni is relatively poor against animals near its size but excels against larger targets...etc

[thin mantle]

It can't do that....it's incredibly loud and slow

Like seriously a stego can't kill you unless you stand still and let it

[glossy elbow]

the camera lock mechanics are terrible

[thin mantle]

deino however does need adjustments

[thin mantle]

Personally I hate it...i see what it's going for but I think it just introduces an additional mechanic that robs the player of agency so ambushers can secure easier kills

Which I think is lame

[glossy elbow]

yeah its awful

[thin mantle]

Like...slotting into a blind spot during those things should be difficult

But when you have a 135 degree blindspot...

[glossy elbow]

well yeah it'll always excel since you need multiple omni's to take down larger targets since omni's are made to be pack animals

[elder wadi]

I dunno, like I said, maybe I’m just a bad player, or I just play with bad players and try to keep them from dying (it’s probably the ladder-), and maybe it is because of the small roster. Whatever it is, I want it to be fixed, because it’s no fun having to just walk away from a meal that you earned because a herbivore decides to walk up on you.

[thin mantle]

Mhm, rightfully so, back in U5 when omnis were...disgustingly busted....you could solo everything aside from deino and stego...with stego only requiring 2

[glossy elbow]

yeah not sure why they added that in the first place

[thin mantle]

Well...yeah failure isn't very fun...the solution would be to kill smaller targets that can be eaten quicker...scope out the surrounding area for creatures too large to contest so that you can gaurantee you have a meal to eat, or fight them off...but no matter whether stego gets nerfed or not this kind of thing will literally always happen and it'll only get more prominent the more larger animals get added, especially large carnivores....just thank the devs the largest land animal is a herbivore that can't EAT the kill it steals from you

[thin mantle]

"Make eating and drinking riskier"

As if it wasn't already

[thin mantle]

Cerato is literally being added as a carnivore that steals corpses, is insanely difficult to kill...and is massively resistant to smaller blows and bleed damage

Like if you think stego is bad just wait for cerato to ruin your day

[glossy elbow]

yeah you already have to worry about deino's now you get to worried about other dino's ambushing you

hopefully the feature is removed since it can take away from they game rather than adding anything

[strange dust]

stego feels OP currently because of the roster. if we had apex carnivores like rex or giga (don't know any other by heart that would fall into that tier) we would be singing a different tune

[elder wadi]

I feel like a good fix for body snatching would be a necrophobia debuff for herbivores. It would make food getting stolen from you a lot less frustrating, since at least when another carnivore steals from you, you know they just wanted to eat. When a herbivore steals food from you, or kills you, you know it’s because they were either defending their young (which is like 1% of the time) or just because they were being a jerk. I doubt necrophobia would be a thing in this game, but it’s nice to think about.

[glossy elbow]

i have a feeling apex's will be extremely unbalanced like they are in legacy and honestly apexs should probably be the last dinos added and so they can figure out how to actually balance dinos before adding something as broken as apexs

[strange dust]

that is true. with evrima's better combat (no butt-riding left-click spam fest for the most part) i'm not sure the balancing would be quite as bad, and there are ways to offset the raw power/size of a dino (like speed, growth time, hunger drain, etc). but unfortunately unless artificial restrictions on species total member amount per server are put in place people are going to play the biggest, baddest dinos available

[glossy elbow]

yeah should be limits on apexs with how many there can be per apexs since the game won't be fun if theres a mega pack of trex killing everything in the server

maybe not strict limits but limits

[strange dust]

apex overpopulation is a very real and annoying issue but artificially restricting the number of apexes per server might lead to a few people hogging apexes to themselves (imo) but idk

[elder wadi]

Imo, hogging apexes is better than having a server full of nothing but apexes. If by the time evrima releases (which will probably be in fifty years-) balancing is better, other dinos will be as fun to play as apexes. (Hopefully.)

[thin mantle]

Insanely abuseable, drop a body on top of a nest and now your eggs and babies need to relocate.
Defend your babies from a predator successfully and now you’re being punished for it…

Bodies are also so prevalent that you wouldn’t be able to avoid a constant buildup without taking ridiculous routes around corpses…if the radius is so tight that it only applies the debuff when you’re right on top of the corpse then it literally doesn’t do anything…if it’s too wide it literally ruins herbivore gameplay and becomes a legitimate hunting tool, have a member of the party carry a corpse around for the AOE herbivore debuff….

On top of all of that, this doesn’t prevent carnivores from doing the same body stealing, which are astronomically worse than herbivores in every context because carnivores can eat the body, there’s not even a chance of the carni getting bored and leaving because there’s no body to come back to.

So ultimately this is just an arbitrary herbi debuff to resolve a problem that isn’t herbivore specific…

Body stealing will always be apart of the game and it’s something you need to account for when hunting

Like I’d always prefer a stego come try to steal my kill as an Omni than a Carno

[keen plover]

Hogging doesn't work in a game like this. It will only promote clan tactics of protecting their apexes

While clans look to kill the other apexes so they can play as them

[thin mantle]

And it promotes purposeful unbalancing of apexes because “they’re rare”

[keen plover]

Yep

[thin mantle]

Even then it wouldn’t be ok, but still, It makes it easier

[strange dust]

nests will naturally spawn compys and killing them will leave a corpse on/near your nest and as a herbivore you can't carry/drag bodies so a debuff would affect herbis that don't body camp as collateral

and on the subject of restricting apexes, if apexes are unavailable people are going to play the next most powerful thing, which while not as bad as apex overpopulation still means there will still be more higher tier dinos than lower tier, unless ALL dinos had a set limit per server, which imo would kill a part of the emergent gameplay and would probably cause other issues too

[elder wadi]

What about a safe zone around nests? So you don’t get the debuff around your nest, therefore people can’t grief your nests. And I think the necrophobia radius should be big enough that when you get it, you know that a carni is near and can run. The debuff could nerf your attack damage, but increase your speed. I’m no gamedev, but if done correctly it could keep herbis from body camping without impacting gameplay too much.

[dusky surge]

increase my speed? Oh boy, I'll go near corpses to create my mach-speed, bone-breaking, stun-spamming mega pachy!

[elder wadi]

Well, like I said, I’m no game dev, and it would probably have to be tested and heavily balanced. It’s just a concept, not something that would for sure work in the game.

[thin mantle]

Why add the debuff at all

It quite literally solves no problems it’s posited to correct

[strange dust]

i'm honestly not sure i understand exactly what you're proposing, sorry

[dusky surge]

adds more than it solves

[alpine plover]

@elder wadi if they are in a hint of strong dinos, you obviosly must run. As the same as a raptor have to runs if a hint of carnos or deinos are trying to catch him. And hervivores should go in hints. Deino and Carno shuldn't be able to send or recive group invitation in my opinion. They are Canibals, so shouldnt be a group of 5 carnos, or 8 deinos killing all near arround them.

and to do that a option could be just when u are in a group the friend-fire/dmg should be disabled or at least -% of dmg if he/she is in your group.

and you avoid the problem of for example: a cani new puppy spawned in a nest who decides kill the other puppies and destroy your nest, and you as a adult cant target him to kill him before he destroy all.

[elder wadi]

… forgive me, this isn’t meant to be rude, but I have absolutely no idea what point you’re trying to make. :/

[alpine plover]

I have no input on the situation currently although yea that was rlly difficult to read /LH

[thin mantle]

I think they’re saying that deino and Carno shouldn’t be able to group up cuz they’re cannibals

Which is silly

Ideally most carnivores are cannibalistic to some degree

Species loyalty shouldn’t be expected

[strange dust]

pairing with someone for nesting technically groups you up

[alpine plover]

Gotchaa...

[glossy elbow]

yeah most carnivores cannibalize under certain situations?

[quiet hearth]

It does way more harm for Omnis, I can't remember if its the same for Pteras but unless you're dying from starvation its not worth it.

[hollow canyon]

@lone flax Anyone that's paid attention to the game knows that Deino's alt bite deals the same damage as the normal bite - it always has, that's by design.

1 Stego killing 2 Deinos means only that the two Deinos in question lack skill and should learn to play.

[lone flax]

Stego can kill and 3 deino if she has an iq more than a bedside table

[hollow canyon]

lol only if those Deinos have a room temperature IQ

any pair of hald decent Deinos body a Stego with ease

[lone flax]

In Update 3 Deino and Stego were equal opponents

[hollow canyon]

no they weren't

update 3 Stego BODIED Deino

harder than now

[golden coral]

They shouldn't be. Stego should have the advantage, deino is meant to hunt via lunge, leave things you can't lunge alone.

[hollow canyon]

Update 3.5 Deino destroyed Stego

Update 3.75 was the same as now

well... almost the same, lunge did not deal as much damage as it does now but it didn't keep Deino locked for so long

but you don't really lunge Stegos unless as a finisher atm

and yes - Stego is meant to be winning this fight it was ALWAYS meant to be winning this fight

[lone flax]

Destroyed stupid stego*

[hollow canyon]

ANY Stego if Deino had any clue how to play

[lone flax]

🤡

[hollow canyon]

the way hitboxes worked in U3.5 let Deino land a headshot with every bite it put out

it bodied Stego with like 5 bites at the time

Deino players at large are skill issued and they always have been so it's not even an argument

[golden coral]

Sorry that you don't understand how a playable work. None the less, you're not meant to be hunting bigger things as deino, and if you think stego is an issue, just wait until you get to deal with rex, trike, spino and so on.

Also oh yes, being able to bite stego head from the rear and get headshots, fun times xD

So very balanced... :p

[hollow canyon]

that playable carries its player hard with all the broken stuff it has, this thing has JUST ONE losing match up that turns around completely whenever you add another Deino to the equation, a match up that Deino can completely avoid if it so wishes

so yea tell me about how the most broken animal in the game needs a buff right now

[dusky surge]

i can't wait for U6.5 so deino can go from beating 7/8 of the other playables to beating 11/12 of the other playables and people will still be mad over that one matchup with stego

[hollow canyon]

ikr

I can't wait for Spino to be in the game to rid me off those broken river worms

[dusky surge]

sorry, i undersold deino. Correction
i can't wait for U6.5 so deino can go from hard countering 7/8 of the other playables to hard countering 11/12 of the other playables and people will still be mad over that one matchup with stego

it doesn't just beat them, the animals can't stop it, at all

[hollow canyon]

yes and it beats them after around ~90 minutes of growing

[lone flax]

🤡 X2

[dusky surge]

you gonna make an argument or are you just gonna clown emote lol

[lone flax]

I'm not going to explain anything for the stupid think for yourself

[dusky surge]

I'm sure you aren't buddy

[golden coral]

He can't, he has absolutely no argument to provide.

[golden coral]

Well, you're entirely wrong in pretty much everything you've stated, so I guess it makes sense you can't explain anything.

[hollow canyon]

he's not, there's no argument to be had here - the devs made it abundantly clear that Deino is meant to be losing to a number of creatures - Stego being one of them

[dusky surge]

but his bite force!!!

[golden coral]

It's right there, in how powerful the lunge is. For some reason that seems to not register to deino players.

[dusky surge]

im sure the water sense nerf next update will send some poor fool into hysterics

[slim dragon]

Imagine when people realize beipi isn't free food for deinos

[dusky surge]

Beipi is going to be so fun, simply for the merit of existing to ruin deino hunts

BTW, that's how I'm playing beipi. Ruining deino hunts exclusively

4 call over a deino near any animals it could possibly hunt

Scare them off so that you can't grab them

[marsh marsh]

You doing gods work
I will gladly do the same:D

[frail bobcat]

somebody give this man the smartness nobel prize

[dusky surge]

pretty sure the smartness nobel prize is just the nobel prize

[frail bobcat]

they should invent a smartness nobel prize for this idea

well, time to continue growing my stego and murdering some gators

[hasty coyote]

@alpine venture bucking is automatic when you get grabbed. However, I do agree with the rest of it, sub deino is a menace

[hollow canyon]

30% Deino can't grab a fully grown Carno, you need to be around 40%

iirc ~38% or so?

but yea that bloody thing probably needs a nerf

[alpine venture]

it around that point when they can also grab anything in the game aside from stego and croc. Deino do whatever they want

[hollow canyon]

although it is a pretty cool playstyle

yea 40%-70% Deino

[alpine venture]

I do appreciate that deinos are evolvin and finding new ways to hunt but like

[hollow canyon]

is the most overpowered creature in the game

[alpine venture]

damn it really sucks being grabbed in the middle of a field

and there aint a damn thing you can do, especially solo

[hasty coyote]

I'd prob increase the stam drain while running on land while lunging by a lot.

[alpine venture]

I think slowing them down on land while grabbing might be a good fix tbh

like literally every other dino when they grab somethin

idk how that idea slipped through the cracks

[elder steppe]

Well no dino slows down if they are able to lift the full dino body in their jaws. It depends on the weight of the dino they are trying to grab, like carno can still lift a decently sized raptor or boar and still run full tilt, so if they made it so carrying bodies takes stam or slows you down, they would have to do that for all the other carnivores as well, so pteras carrying fish would slow them down or raptor carrying a goat or deer, but i do see where your coming from.

I know that it looks absolutely ridiculous for a small deino to grab a large looking dino and torpedo back to the river, but that deino (even though it looks small) weighs at least twice as much as whatever it's carrying.

I'm pretty sure of that, because to lunge something you have to weigh twice as much as what your lunging or else you just sort of stun it.

I understand your pain though, that happened to me last week as teno, i was being a bit cocky and got wisked away to the shadow realm aka the water

[slim dragon]

You didn't take into account that lunge allows deino to grab much heavier targets than other dinos in it's jaws. A deino can sprint with up to 50% of it's own weight between its jaws, while a 450kg omni must slowly pull a 120kg dryo. So no, deino doesn't have the same treatment as the other dinos here.

[hollow canyon]

The examples you used - they are like a quarter or less of Carno's weight. Deino carries things half its weight like it's nothing.

[frail bobcat]

@cerulean adder so your solution to croc overpopulation is making them even better?

That checks out

[cerulean adder]

no i think they should be stretched out more so you don’t find 20 crocs in center but 0 southeast

[frail bobcat]

But why should they leave the spot?

They get the action there

The only thing that will do is creating a greater croc overpop and clogging up crocs at more places

[cerulean adder]

yes which shouldn’t be the case. the other regions should be made more interesting to balance the populations across the entire map

[cerulean adder]

so you think more people would be crocs if the other regions were more interesting? genuine question btw i fully get your point! just trying to understand :)

[frail bobcat]

Yes

It will balance the pop across the map by making them overpopulated everywhere

[cerulean adder]

hmm that’s also a possibility i haven’t considered. do you know a different way to deal with the overpopulation then?

[frail bobcat]

Make the growth harder

Scrap fish from their diet once they are adult

[cerulean adder]

that’s a good idea

[frail bobcat]

Because having a playable with 7/9 instakill matchups be that easy of a grow is kinda weird

Not to mention fricking sub deinos playing land croc

[cerulean adder]

i hope beipis ruin some of their hunts in the future by alerting drinking players

[frail bobcat]

Yes

[raven bolt]

It will be my mission

[cerulean adder]

thank you kindly

[dusky surge]

the plan is already in motion

[stark knoll]

@wispy seal You regain oxygen twice as fast while scenting or resting as deino

[hollow canyon]

I wish to know why people keep downvoting Beeza's feedback, it raises a very legitimate point - you can hit Tenonto's tail from outside of its attack range which at times turns hunting them into a weird cat and mouse game played with Tenonto's tip of the tail. Idk if reducing the damage multiplier is the way here(since I think it's x0.1 anyways?) but something should probably be done with it.

[slim dragon]

Eat grass and die ?

[hasty coyote]

I think the better solution is to just make their attacks reach the tail tip. The 0.1 multiplier already reduces it to basically nothing. Any more and you might as well make the tail not part of the hitbox.

[dawn falcon]

Actually sane balance feedback post

[hollow canyon]

fair I guess? I'm not sure how exactly that hitbox works tbh

[hasty coyote]

Only Dino with a full on blind spot that I know of is deino. You can bite the tip of its tail without its alt bite reaching, but if you can do 80,000 damage to a deino without it killing you, running into water, or dying of dehydration, then I guess you deserve it lol.

An easy fix for it and any Dino with a similar issue is to just make the 180 alt bite take slightly longer or have a narrower hitbox, but reach far enough to cover the blind spot. Or just give them a back attack if it’s something that doesn’t have a standard alt attack.

[thin mantle]

There is also something to be said for some animals having rear attacks even if they lack the relevant weaponry to deal a lot of damage with it for the sake of making positioning for that animal more forgiving

Kinda like teno

Or something larger like shant

[hasty coyote]

Pretty much any carnivore or ceratopsian can just have a long enough alt attack, and sauropods and hadrosaurs can either use their tails or kick for a rear attack.

[keen plover]

It already does for tail slam iirc. The 'issue' is that things can quickly bite the tip of the tail and avoid the hit all together. Honestly, it's fine. Carno only deals 17.5n of damage on the tip of the tail anyways

[thin mantle]

It’s usually the bleed damage that’s the problem

Which does actually stack up with just tail tip hits over time

And no the hitbox doesn’t fully reach the end of the tails hitbox physically

As far as my testing has concluded, and others

[elder steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/fair-enough-shea-brennan-sam-elliott-1883-thats-reasonable-gif-24225989

https://tenor.com/view/hat-tip-gif-11048773

[bright oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-embed-failure-epic-embed-fail-double-embed-fail-gif-23538127

[gilded flint]

#balance-feedback message do it yourself and grow a deino and canni them all

that's what i do :D

[hollow canyon]

@gaunt jasper that was not a 75% grown croc, probably closer to 40%

75% grown one would've ran out of stamina

[gaunt jasper]

It looked pretty big, but I didnt really check because I was panicking and spinning my mouse around

[hollow canyon]

sure

even a 40% one is larger than Carno and can grab it

they get to that size in roughly ~90 maybe 120 minutes with a perfect diet

[hollow canyon]

@grizzled anchor it's confirmed to be getting nerfed

Dondi said its size is getting reduced a few weeks ago

it's obviously and very noticeably too big

way too big

[grizzled anchor]

Thank goodness, I personally just dont fight carnos anymore its just frustrating.

[hollow canyon]

ye, I feel you

should've never been allowed to be this big

[strange dust]

was told it's this big cuz charge wasn't nearly as useful as it is now and so they made the hitbox bigger to compensate

[hollow canyon]

^ very much so

it was just a garbage ability back in the day so they slapped a bunch of weird buffs and other features onto it

hitbox was too large from the start I think

[grizzled anchor]

Well Charge needed skill before is what I got from that statement 😂

[hollow canyon]

it barely ever hit anyways

nah, old charge was an extremely niche and pretty trash ability

[dusky surge]

Old charge was objectively trash, yea

[hollow canyon]

enormous hitbox was some compensation

to have people land it once in a while

[dusky surge]

Hitbox was massive to compensate

[hollow canyon]

I don't think enlarging hitboxes is every the right way to balance something

[grizzled anchor]

Well now its not hard to land at all its harder to miss 🤣

[hollow canyon]

obviously

I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to come out like this

they probably didn't have the time to fix it in ST/QA

before U6 dropped

cause they wanted to make it before the end of the year

[strange dust]

someone posted a pic of the hitbox in one of the discussion channels not too long ago and... wow

[dusky surge]

Big, yea

[hollow canyon]

I did

[grizzled anchor]

Well they should definetly release balance changes in between the big updates to fix stuff like this

[dusky surge]

Aken is the hitbox nerf's greatest advocate lol

[hollow canyon]

that's an approximation, remember

but it's around that size

the hitbox and the model aren't my work, I posted them courtesy of Hypernova

who put them together

I tested it some time before and I got about that result

[dusky surge]

But yea, the main reason the hitbox is that large is to compensate for a TERRIBLE ability

[hollow canyon]

the one in the game might be slightly smaller

[dusky surge]

If it wasn't that large, old charge could barely hit a barn

[hollow canyon]

but not by much

[dusky surge]

lmao

[hollow canyon]

^ charge used to be hot garbage

it even got an enormous damage buff at one point

[dusky surge]

Old charge is what originated ambush carno, which is an equally garbage niche

[hollow canyon]

where it oneshot Utahs no matter where it hit them

it got nerfed down to just oneshot them upon landing a headshot afterwards

still way too much damage

imo it needs both a damage and hitbox nerf

but let's start with the hitbox and see where that takes us

[grizzled anchor]

Sounds fun lol utahs are the weakest carnivore anyway lol who doesnt enjoy getting one shot too 🤣

[strange dust]

what was old charge like if i may ask? don't play carno much so never got the chance to really use it

[hollow canyon]

if it gets where it should be then good, if not then the devs can always keep swinging that nerf hammer

[hollow canyon]

depends on the patch

but in general - you couldn't turn your way out of a wet paperbag if your life depended on it

barring update 2 where there was a bag that could let you drift-turn without stopping the charge

but I think that was some weird desync/bug problem

it wasn't intentional and barely anyone ever used it in combat

it barely dealt any damage at the time and didn't knock Tenontos down

then it got its damage buffed, it was allowed to knock down Tenos, then its damage was further buffed and so on

still it was used in very niche situations

[dusky surge]

i hope they undo a lot of the stuff

[hollow canyon]

Carno was effectively all about running and biting things to death

[dusky surge]

mainly knocking down tenos

and the nutso damage

[hollow canyon]

to get hit by Carno's charge would take you being asleep or standing in some really bad spot where you have nowhere to go from

I literally dodged that thing by trotting out of Carno's way with Teno

more than once

[grizzled anchor]

I think it shouldnt be much of a damage ability more like a stun. At least to me that seems like the main purpose of it and not getting the prey to 50% when hitting the cargw already

[hollow canyon]

and yes it had that hitbox

[dusky surge]

Yea, ideally, it should be used as an initiator

[hollow canyon]

agreed, it should allow Carno to land bites on the target

[dusky surge]

Start the fight with more damage

[hollow canyon]

you just charge the target, then maul it, retreat, charge it, maul it, retreat and so on until it dies

but charge itself should have meh damage

I'd personally go with like 100

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah thats how I imagined it to be before I played carno myself

[hollow canyon]

yea it's never been like that unfortunately

we will see how it works in the future and I guess take the devs will take it from there based on the feedbacks

they are very much aware it's a problem rn

I think it's already fixed in their version on the game

they just need to finish all the other stuff for the update and we should have everything in the next update

[grizzled anchor]

Thats why I was saying release balance updates. Why do we need to wait for the other content if thats a simple thing that could be changed now? 🤔

[hollow canyon]

yea they don't do that unfortunately

I don't know the answer to why though

[grizzled anchor]

Imagine a changing meta that would be so cool and they could test out stuff more too

[winter iris]

Of course I 100% agree on reducing carno ram hitbox, not sure though if I’d put other changes all in one go. I think it’s wiser to just reduce hitbox first and then see how it goes.
Also, reducing ram damage may then require other changes for balance (é.g. a bit more stamina or a bit more bite damage, or/and a bit more knockdown time, things like that…hence why I’d prefer one change at a time)

[thin bough]

Ram damage is good as is tbh, making it any weaker would be somewhat un-realistic as it is literally 2 tons of flesh moving at 68mph at you.

[distant torrent]

ram damage is definitely good, but only if the damage to specifically the tail is capped imo

[crystal flame]

Yes and a tail clip shouldn't knock you over

[alpine plover]

Remember when it could fracture

Carno charge fracturing Tenos

[distant torrent]

definitely. tail clipping shouldn’t be a viable way to kill something, and tail clipping certainly shouldn’t knock down a target

[grizzled anchor]

Well the thing is that there are no balance updates the changes only come with big updates so "see how it goes" isnt the best if you then have to wait forever til they make any more changes.

[grizzled anchor]

Well how does the carno just give no f about the impact then? And the target could also be a 1.6 tons teno for example or even a carno. Its just the ram + 1 bite combo that can kill isnt really fun for anyone fighting the carno imo. With more frequent balance changes they could play around a bit to find the best solution but I guess they focus more on new content and hopefully performance improvements right now.

[hasty coyote]

one main reason they haven't made a balance patch this time is because of the UE5 upgrade in 6.5, its much harder to go back and forth. Otherwise, idk their exact reasoning

[grizzled anchor]

Well I might be wrong but regarding damage isnt it basically only changing numbers? Making a hitbox smaller might be more complex but damage, health, bleed, stam regen etc should just be changing numbers. 🤔

Theres more things that'll get changed regarding belance I hope 😄 at least make the utah playable! 🥺

[stark knoll]

In order to patch the game, they would have to go back to UE4, make changes, and push the update. Currently they're in the middle of making everything work on UE5. Not worth risking progress loss and extra issues to go back and forth

[hasty coyote]

they would have to make a separate build from the one they are currently developing on to change anything. They can't just change it directly in the live branch without it affecting all people constantly. If they do decide to make a separate "patch branch", that also means any balance changes or bug fixes they make would then have to be made again in the one they are developing on for the next update, and that may cause more issues.

[grizzled anchor]

Thats true. I guess I just gotta learn some more about game development and UE 🤔

[thin bough]

Tenonto is in a similar weight class to the carno which is why its able to build enough momentum to knock it over without damaging itself in the process

[thin mantle]

That's so silly

[thin bough]

Have you ever pushed somebody who weighs the same as you

[thin mantle]

That is not even remotely similar to a carno running at top speed into a similarly sized object or animal with it's nose

[thin bough]

Im sure there are adaptations that would help similar to pachy

[thin mantle]

No

It's it's nose

Like we simply can't argue on the realism implications of of carno charge because if it actually had realistic consequences...carnos spine would be compressed and broken, and it's skull would either be majorly fractured or straight up broken whenever it tries to ram a target as large as teno

Is that necessarily a problem? No not really

The isle isn't a particularly realistic game

[thin bough]

I dont think you are taking into account that they were within the same weight range and that its not a sudden stop

[somber sphinx]

But it is a balance problem, especially with how carnos niche is supposed to be

[thin bough]

its not the carno suddenly stopping after traveling that fast the majority of momentum is directed towards the teno

[thin mantle]

Oh certainly, my point broadly being that the focus of the topic is misguided

[thin mantle]

That genuinely doesn't matter, carno isn't built for that

[thin mantle]

Also with the way that force works....force is distributed between the two objects on impact

So carno has to tank the force of it's own ram to perform it

Which it wouldn't be capable of unless it was a looney toons character

[thin bough]

There horns are meant for ramming and absorbing shock...

[thin mantle]

Not even a little

[thin bough]

?

[thin mantle]

Carno's horns could've been used for scraping....but they were predominantly used for display, territorial disputes using their horns would've had both of the carnos starting in stationary positions and just pushing their heads together

They weren't very durable at all

Not that any of this matters since carno doesn't ram with it's horns in game

It rams with it's nose

[thin bough]

Change the animation got it

[thin mantle]

Still ridiculous

[thin bough]

I agree it is silly lol

[frail bobcat]

Man, wanted to correct you

[thin mantle]

I do find it kinda interesting how aligning carno's niche with it's capabilities by reducing the range of targets ram is capable of stunning also makes it more balanced...

Not saying that's a rule or anything...just interesting

[thin bough]

I wish they did weekly/bi-weekly hotfixes so people didnt have to deal with bugs and other issues for 3 months

[thin mantle]

They might once the engine transfer is done

But they literally can't in the current branch

[thin bough]

Im praying because Im sick of getting knocked down from tail rams

[thin mantle]

Oh I just don't think carno should be capable of knocking down targets in teno's size range at all

Let alone the tail hitbox shenanigans....

[thin bough]

I mean for a real life comparison if you are running at full speed into somebody else lets just say 16mph are you going to knock them over

[thin mantle]

in that case we should also give carno's a body and head fracture along with a 350 dmg penalty for impacting that same teno

I'm not saying I even remotely want that...but it is realistic

[thin bough]

I don't think you are taking into account adaptations animals make, were unable obviously to tell exactly what it hunted or how but at the speeds it ran its very likely it was able to absorb large amounts of shock similar to a bull or rhino

[thin mantle]

It wasn't, it's skeleton literally couldn't withstand that regardless of adaptation

It's neck would break

Also we do actually know it most likely hunted far smaller and swift prey because of it's adaptations for speed along with it's jaw design

[frail bobcat]

It got them quick jaws

[thin mantle]

Indeed it does

Nice and short snout, long neck

Great for grabbing whole prey items and running off with them

All of this is irrelevant anyway because carno's stat balance dictates that it HAS to have limited capability against creatures that are forced to fight it because they either aren't fast enough, or agile enough to avoid it outright

Like teno, or dibble, or cerato...

Hence why these animals are designed with a distinct advantage in fighting it

[thin bough]

The physics would not back it up as they are both within a similar weight class the shock from the ram itself would not be nearly enough to cause any serious damage

You could argue if it was into a literal brick wall for sure

[thin mantle]

So why does it do any damage to the teno in that situation

[thin bough]

but the tenonto is not a brick wall by any means

[thin bough]

The tenonto recieves a majority of the momentum which causes it to fall over

Its basic physics moving thing hits not moving thing, not moving thing moves

[thin mantle]

Force is equally distributed…the Carno also needs to tank that force

Both creatures are experiencing the same interaction physics wise

[thin bough]

Force is not equally distributed as they are not the exact same weight the carno outweighing the tenonto

[frail bobcat]

This is why punching somebody hurts

[thin mantle]

That’s not how force works

[thin bough]

who hurts more the person getting punched or the person recieving the punch?

[thin mantle]

Carno benign slightly bigger would help it absorb that impact better if simply looking at their weight alone

[thin mantle]

Depends on where you punch them, plus fists are typically more durable than the rest of the body

[thin bough]

obviously because the fists are adapted to withstand shock lol

[tall bronze]

Ramming your head into something that weighs almost as much as you sounds like it'd hurt your neck A stagger for Teno, sure. But a knockdown just seems a wee bit much and also kinda goes against the whole small game hunter thing. :C

[golden coral]

Isnt the point there that carno isnt adapted to charge at all, it wouldnt do it realistically wise. Pachy also wouldnt ram I dont think, not sure what the conclusions there are.

[thin mantle]

Which is exactly what a carnos face and horns are not designed for

[hasty coyote]

honestly if we were going for realism, carno's hit animation on charge shows it swinging its head upwards, so the interaction isnt carno ramming head first into things, its running over and swinging its head into them. So even less reason on why it should knock over a teno and should have a smaller cc thresholds

Even if it was realistic for carno to knockdown, the balance in this game is not dictated by realism, otherwise a head fracture would do a LOT more and probably near kill you. Among many other abilities either 1-shotting people, doing nothing, or not even being possible

[hollow canyon]

That's really debatable

we don't know what Carno hunted, it's the sole and only animal from its formation

thus we have no idea what its ecosystem looked like

I've seen hypotheses that it hunted small and fast prey but I've also seen hypotheses that it hunted sauropods

[grizzled anchor]

@gilded flint The croc literally is an ambush predator in water so complaining about crocs ambushing in the water is kinda funny

[gilded flint]

im not?

i was complaining abt them being able to become usain bolt on land

[grizzled anchor]

You wrote "...OR ambush you from the water. "

[tall bronze]

Sub adult stages in general are a bit odd. Too fast and the Juvie stamina buff lingers for too long, making an awful mixture of "GOTTA GO FAST FOR A LOOOONG TIME"

then you have issues like lunging and carrying an animal having zero effect on speed

[grizzled anchor]

The speed isnt without any reason though since its the only way for a smaller deino to get away from bigger cannis

and since deinos are on their own diet cannibalism isnt rare

[tall bronze]

If I'm remembering it correctly, sub Deino speed specifically isn't terrible but it's made worse due to the Juvie stam buff issue I mentioned.

[keen plover]

I don't mind the speed or stamina tbf. It's the ability to lunge on land

[tall bronze]

they could take the idea of replacing land lunge with a defensive charged bite instead just saying

[keen plover]

I hope that happens

[opaque sundial]

why does carno instantly drain ur stam when ur pouncing it as omni

you literally get 0 chance to hop off because it disappears so fast

[thin mantle]

True, although my broader point was that even if it hunted similarly sized or larger prey, it’s purpose in game is set apart from what it was irl…but even if we DID use its irl reference it probably wasn’t slamming face first into similarly sized combatants at maximum speed.

@hollow canyon

Especially not how our Carno is built

[gilded flint]

yeah

[somber sphinx]

Its with every dino, bucking got buffed

[thin mantle]

It also isn't instant

Just requires timing to be accounted for, and patience when draining the stam of the target

If it's upsetting that omni can't get maximum value from a landed pounce before the targeted has been sufficiently drained...I'd say that's a good thing

Because it's proof that it's playstyle actually requires some brainpower now and I love that

[hollow canyon]

it definitely wasn't charging anything

but its jaws and biteforce were actually impressive enough to do some real harm to different animals, even larger ones

[thin mantle]

Mhm certainly, proportionally it's jaws were terrifying as if it wasn't large enough already

[hollow canyon]

yea although interestingly enough I found based on some more up to date studies

that Allosaurus actually bit harder than Carnotaurus

despite what I was saying before

[thin mantle]

Oh I could believe that, allo is weird when it comes to biteforce studies it seems to fluctuate all the time

[hollow canyon]

but in general it seems that Allosaurus had a far more powerful biteforce than most people give it credit for

it doesn't really fluctuate, it's only that old rumour about it having lion's biteforce that kind of went against it

the studies put it more or less at the same level

it's just that I thought the specimen in question was larger than it was

[thin mantle]

I shouldn't have said fluctuate as much as I should've said that it's only been going up over time as it's been studied

[hollow canyon]

yea actually nevermind if did fluctuate a bit from that 2020 study but that one has some questionable numbers there anyways

so you were indeed right

[thin mantle]

Accidentally so but nonetheless I'll take that W

[hollow canyon]

but yea Allosaurus' biteforce just keeps increasing the small guy that was used in the 2021 study by Sakamoto bit comparably hard to the largest Spinosaurus while being... kind of a midget?

then again in a way that says more about Spinosaurus than anything else

[thin mantle]

Yeah spino isn't particularly known for it's monstrous BF....

Or really much of anything aside from going from boat to tank to boat to tank

[frail bobcat]

@spark moat what do you mean, I literally dont understand what you are saying

[grizzled anchor]

So Im wondering does the community want the omni to just suck even after the update? Every single feedback gets downvoted so hard when its about omni lol I dont think we have to argue about that the omni is the worst carnivore and just way too weak in general

Or do you just want other improvements besides stamina? Even though I feel like thats the critical part about the omni

[twilit juniper]

No, people downvote almost all buff omni posts cause currently Omni is the most balanced carnivore, it’s just that it gets absolutely deleted and invalidated by how broken carno and pachy are. No doubt that when those 2 will be balanced, if they will be, Omni will strive again, but not in the god way it used to in 5.5.
The devs basically got rid of the players that tried, succeeded and thought that 1 omni should solo carnos and other species, some solo Omnis even soloing packs of other species (more than 1), which should be as virtually impossible as a solo omni v solo almost any species.
The new omni style makes people respect that Omni NEEDS a pack, it’s a raptorid afterall. And the opinions of needing 2-3 Omnis per 1 carno is well liked by most active feedback discussion speakers.
Currently omni is sort of suffering in every way, but the Omni v Golden child matchup is very balanced right now (Teno), and like I already said, im sure omni will do much better once carno doesn’t have a hitbox of a space satellite 😅
(Since from my experience, people are calling Omni bad cause it gets entirely invalidated by carno in almost all cases, unless the carno is really really bad)

Also the fact that the roster is made to be against poor Omni, poor Omni cause it has no good matchup so far 😅 it’s up against a theropod that is practically made to hunt it and any small game prey, and up against a creature in its own tier that is also made to literally bully others in its tier, the 2 being carno and pachy. I didn’t mention teno or stego cause those 2 have a pretty good matchup with Omni right now.

So In 6.5, it’s gonna actually have 3 more prey items, which is super exciting for Omni

(I also didn’t name stuff like dryo and pt as good omni matchups simply cause most Omni players right now mostly care about fighting creatures that are x2-x5 they’re size, not smaller sadly. Which isn’t a bad thing, it’s just bad when they think that Omni should be legacy Utah, a creature that could solo rexes and almost every single dinosaur in the roster.
Play cautiously, adapt new playstyle that’s being forced upon omni, play in packs, and Omni isn’t so different from 5.5 😅 but I would personally advise to wait for 6.5 to truly main and accept omni, since with how ridiculous carnos hitbox is, it’s a very hard hard world out there)

[twilit juniper]

And about stamina,
Imho the stam drain should be linear, not 3-4 chunks and it’s all gone. And maybe a tiny bit less bucking stam drain, only a little cause the fact that now bucking is actually useful, and not “lemme just buck, and hope this raptor gets off soon” is amazing!
Also don’t take this for 100% fact, but I’m pretty sure Punch said at one point that the fast buck drain is a bug, which I hope it’s not in a way.

[opaque sundial]

when do Omnis find anything not 2x their size though

[twilit juniper]

Yup, sadness but that will come in up 6.5

[frail bobcat]

Very well said

[hollow canyon]

it's typically believed that the nerfs targeted at other playables will let Omni get up to where it should be

I personally think it could use a bit of a buff but not really a big one I think

[frail bobcat]

In what way?

[hollow canyon]

slightly decreased stamina drain on bucking

also - a global runtime buff that would double them for every playable

Omni would naturally be one of the bigger winners since it already possesses a rather large stamina pool so it would technically receive some of the most runtimes out of it

[frail bobcat]

Yeah, but carnos could just run for miles and stuff like "make it run to waste stam" wont be really viable anymore

[frail bobcat]

I agree with this tho

[hollow canyon]

Carno would still have a much smaller stamina pool than other creatures, by an even larger margin

but yes it would be able to run for a longer time

which I think wouldn't be a bad thing at all

it needs different nerfs anyways and in combat the main way in which it'd be using up stamina should be the charge

so yea no, I think that everything should run longer

and this might seem hypocritical of me as I was one of the people that were pushing for short runtimes in Evrima

however that was supposed to be compensated by fast trots

meanwhile the trots are anything but fast

they are pretty bad on most creatures

Carno specifically starves if it trots around

other creatures don't do well either

Evrima really underdelivered in terms of giving us mobile, fast-trotting playables

they range from decent to pathetic in terms of their cursoriality

[frail bobcat]

Pachy 💀

Omni trot is ok, I guess.

Could be a smigde faster

[frail bobcat]

Teno trot is very good

But the rest is just so bad to get around with

The ptera trot is the worst imo

[hollow canyon]

it's not ok

Teno is ok, passable

[frail bobcat]

Better than pachy lmao

[hollow canyon]

but it's only good for legacy standards

like I think you have a skewed perspective

Tenontosaurus has the trot speed of legacy Giga

Giga was considered to have a good trot or even very good(for an apex) for legacy standards

[frail bobcat]

Did not think that much about trot speeds and never played legacy

[hollow canyon]

but we will eventually play on a much larger map on Evrima

[hollow canyon]

precisely

Evrima is a more fast paced game than legacy

shorter hunger times, faster action

[frail bobcat]

Now that I think about it, I always sprint because trot is just so bad

[hollow canyon]

larger map

precisely

that's an issue, Evrima was meant to be the game where you trot around to move across the map

nobody does it, every creature would just starve that way

it's too fast paced for that

[frail bobcat]

Except teno and maybe stego

[hollow canyon]

all the new playables are getting absolutely pathetic trots based on what I've seen

[frail bobcat]

Stego just does not care because it takes so long to actually get hungry

[hollow canyon]

Teno is ok, Stego - I have no idea I haven't touched it in years

[frail bobcat]

Its slow, but stego hunger drain is like REALLY slow, so its fine

[hollow canyon]

but tbh now with how limited the nutrients are on herbivores I actually do sprint quite a bit with Tenonto

if I want to go somewhere away from the swamp

note that we're playing on a tiny, tiny fraction of the whole map

like a quarter maybe

that's nothing, if we had the whole Spiro

it would be borderline unplayable

I don't like the slow trot speeds but it is what it is

[frail bobcat]

You should make a suggestion for faster trotspeeds

[hollow canyon]

we're not getting them

[frail bobcat]

F

[hollow canyon]

that's not a realistic suggestion to make

so I instead make one for larger stamina pools

Evrima used to have very large stamina pools

that allowed you to run for a very long time

[calm ibex]

larger stamina pools impact combat though

[hollow canyon]

it was ok for gameplay purposes but didn't feel right

[hollow canyon]

yes it does that's why you don't tinker with the stamina pool itself but rather with the runtime

runtimes in this game work in such a way that the devs can change how long you run for without touching the actual stamina pool

so that means that in combat you'd be losing stamina as fast as you do now even if you get to run twice as fast

it's just that you'd have more wiggle room in terms of moving around

[frail bobcat]

I heard a idea about a movement type that was slower than sprint and faster than trot with very little stam drain which is made to get around the map. That could work. I sadly dont know who suggested it

[hollow canyon]

I think this is the best way based on what we have to work with

[hollow canyon]

not a good suggestion

it's not realistic

[frail bobcat]

But it would be a fix

Kind of like a jog

[hollow canyon]

bad fix, if you want the devs to reanimate a whole new mode of movement they can just reanimate all the trots

like - the trots in this games are not actual trots

this isn't what a trotting animal looks like

[frail bobcat]

Its a walk

[hollow canyon]

trotting is significantly faster than what we have

yea, they just walk "fast"

[frail bobcat]

Just make our trot the z walk and trot a actual trot

[hollow canyon]

yes but no

again - that would require them to add a whole bunch of new animations

any suggestion that suggest adding new animations are unlikely to happen

[frail bobcat]

But speeding up trots would look silly too

[hollow canyon]

as they add a tonne of work

[frail bobcat]

So bigger stam pool it is

[hollow canyon]

yea

that's the best solution for now

[frail bobcat]

But maybe the bigger stam pool wont be needed if species stick around the migration zones

[hollow canyon]

honestly the devs messed up by making trots and walks this slow, idk why they did that but there needs to be some compensation for that

moving around in this game is just painful as a fully grown animal

[frail bobcat]

Yes

[keen plover]

Pachy trot is a crime

Don't even get me started on the 'walk' lol

[hollow canyon]

from what I've heard/seen the new animals trots aren't much/any better

[keen plover]

Really? Didn't Galli have a better trot than giga in legacy? I'd hope it would be at least that good

[hollow canyon]

It did

I think it's much, much slower now

[keen plover]

If that's the case...

[hollow canyon]

but let me doublecheck, someone jsut sent the stats from stream I think

[grizzled anchor]

Well the Omni playstyle is hit and run so naturally it has more stamina. But I feel like the bleed isnt a big deal compared to the stam you're using. Id also love to see them increasing the normal bite damage a bit

[hollow canyon]

nah it's faster, but slower than Carno and Teno

[keen plover]

The trot???

[hollow canyon]

yea

[keen plover]

Bruh

[hollow canyon]

checked it - 13km/h

I think it's ok for Galli

[keen plover]

Omni has a trot speed of 18km/h

[hollow canyon]

because it has a large stamina and runs around

[hollow canyon]

really? Teno is only around 20km/h iirc

[keen plover]

The legacy trot was good though

[hollow canyon]

thought omni would be much slower

then again I don't think Galli should be a fast trotter, it already has a large stamina pool and runs ridiculously fast

[keen plover]

You can see the speed as admin

it's in cm/s

[hollow canyon]

apparently as fast as Carno back when it was breaking the game with its speed

[hollow canyon]

oh nice, will need to check them later

[keen plover]

Hit end key then M

iirc

[hollow canyon]

sure I will check it I just rarely sit in spect mode

will check all of it later

[keen plover]

I guess Galli can get by

But cerato

[hollow canyon]

yea Galli's a non-ssue

[keen plover]

Cerato has the legacy trot

[hollow canyon]

Cerato will be a problem if it trots slowly

[keen plover]

From the streams

[hollow canyon]

ah, that's not too bad I guess although nothing crazy

[keen plover]

https://youtu.be/HSznUlCUiUc?t=684

timestamped

[hollow canyon]

yea it's similar to legacy

thanks

[winter iris]

But it is better than messing up everything again. At least doing small spot changes you have a benchmark coz you know which problems you’re trying to fix. If you change everything every time you start from scratch again

[hasty coyote]

Run time still affects combat drastically for some species. Take dryo for example, it has to dodge carno for basically an entire minute. If we buff all runtimes, then it’s going to have to dodge for that much longer. While it may not affect stuff that mostly stand their ground like teno, or stuff that use abilities for most their stam anyway like Omni, it heavily impacts those whose main escape is running away.

[hollow canyon]

True but Dryo specifically suffers the most from having the current pathetic low runtimes. I didn't mention that previously but I always intended to triple its runtime especially due to its dodge eating stamina. With the charges maybe just x2.5 it. Either way this animal is absolutely pathetic with its current runtime.

And yes it would need to dodge Carno longer, but I do not see that as a problem.

[strange dust]

is it? i've escaped omnis as a dryo with the -15% stam drain diet (which may or may not be bugged)

[thin bough]

dryos are small which allows them to hide in forests and brush they are runners AND hiders

they shouldnt need to run from a carno for a minute+ especially considering most of there diets are near forests (besides agave)

[hollow canyon]

yea but that's down to skill, Dryo runs BARELY any longer than Utah

and I think that diet is kind of bugged

[primal token]

Have anyone noticed a weird way stegos can buck with little to no animation?

I believe it's some kind of trick

drains the stam like a normal buck, but without warning

[hollow canyon]

@verbal zenith ...or better yet - let every playable do that because why shouldn't they be able to back off?

[verbal zenith]

True, i was just more focused on the larger creatures that were gonna have a big turn radius

[hollow canyon]

you're right in that those need to be able to do that even more

but I don't think it's because of the turn radius

it's just that they lack the maneuverability and aren't as skittish in fights, even in fights between Carnos it's just very weird when you get into close combat because it largely turns into a button mashing where you hope to land better locational than your opponent

Utahs don't have that problem

[verbal zenith]

Yeah

[hollow canyon]

Deinos are absolutely awful with regard to this

all the apexes will be even worse probably

[verbal zenith]

exactly Today alligators and crocs can backpedal

[hollow canyon]

everything can backpedal

well... everything besides TI playables

[verbal zenith]

true, I remember playing alot of Legacy Isle as a trike, and had to turn around and got destroyed by a giga

[twilit juniper]

@rocky turret I downvoted cause I do actually have to disagree, also I feel the sudden urge to tell someone why I disagree and share my opinion, just a mood rn 😅
Compare how carno feels right now compared to legacy, imo carno now (the apex theropod in evrima atm) feels so heavy and actually large, I remember praising Evrima for that back in UP 4-5 I think, how I actually felt the dinosaur irl. While in legacy it was small baby, to me atleast. Same with almost every playable, the only thing at the moment I could see that isn’t giving “this is large” feeling is the fact that UP6 messed up footstep sounds and other sounds in general, so carno and other large dinos sound like they’re walking on clouds XD Hope that is fixed in 6.5 though 👍
But the camera was so far back in legacy that it almost made it bad 💀 The closer the camera, the larger the animal feels, cause your right up there with it, running free, majestically XD of course not too close though. To me the extremely far camera seemed like spectator mode.

(Imma not even talk about how every apexes walking sound in legacy sounded like they’re trucking through a mountain of trash bags, sound sounded like trash bags and WAS trash 😅 I’m sure evrima can make new actually stomping sounds than honestly, possibly edited trash bags russling sounds)

(Also to say isle is gonna lose they’re player base simply cause dinos aren’t loud enough or the walking sounds/camera angle isn’t the best is a bit extreme 💀 I think isle players have much more concerning things going on like the gameplay loop and balance issues, if making dinosaurs sound big is that big of an issue, it will be cleared up after the major problems are covered or in UP9, but not lose they’re player base 💀)

[silk harness]

Am I in the minority for feeling like dinos dont need a backpedal or strafe? I think the current turn radius combined with alt attacks is sufficient, even for the bigger creatures. Assriding is no longer a thing but there’s still enough limitations in movement that you can occasionally land free hits on bigger creatures. If you allow full range of motion, this becomes much harder

Idc about realism, I think the current movement system works well for game balance

[hasty coyote]

The idea for strafing for Apexes is less about being tail ridden by something small and more about apex fights not just being face tanks like with deino. However, I will say most the stego fights I have seen are more about positioning rather than just face tanks and are unique, so other apexes could go either way depending on their attacks.

Though, strafing for ceratopsians is mainly so that they can spar against each other and face their opponent while moving, rather than turning their main defense away to change direction..

[silk harness]

Hard agree that they shouldn't be facetank matchups (or spinning around in circles), but I do think there are other solutions. Unique attacks and mechanics can go a long way. We already know rex is getting a headswing with cc, spino will probably have a grapple, trike will probably have cc on its charge plus the sparring mechanic if its fighting its own species

I wouldn't be super opposed to backpedalling or strafing but I think its unnecessary

[hasty coyote]

Same honestly, I just understand the arguments on both sides. As long as their attacks allow for more than face tanking and button spam, it should be much better.

[normal granite]

im curious why people are downvoting my suggestion? i asked for feedback on it also and there has been none. im not salty, just curious why people dont like the idea

[slim dragon]

Proximity-based debuffs are terrible for many reasons
To make things short, either they are too punitive and punish people who don't deserve it, either they are not punitive enough and they don't solve the problem they're supposed to
And the middle ground is that they both punish people who didn't deserve it but also don't fix the problem

[normal granite]

@slim dragon thank you for that. i would recommend refining it and giving it clear guidelines. it would be hard, yes. but if it was done correctly i think it could work really well

[slim dragon]

It's already been discussed countless of times here, and the conclusion has always been that there is no way to do it correctly

[normal granite]

ok fair enough. thank you for discussing it with me though 🙂

[thin bough]

Just play community

[hasty coyote]

That plus buffing people for being around others is also generally a bad idea. It just makes those dinos either entirely reliant on herding to be up to par or makes them op in a group. The buffs from grouping should come from the group itself, not stat buffs on top of it.

[frail bobcat]

@white dagger why?

[white dagger]

bc to hell with stego

[twilit juniper]

💀 Amazing

[frail bobcat]

Good thing that you arent responsible for balance

[white dagger]

ok stego main

[frail bobcat]

I have grown a stego once, lmao

[twilit juniper]

Everyone that disagrees is a stego main? 💀 oh ok

[frail bobcat]

I main ptera

And I would main omni too if I would find people to play with

[white dagger]

(its possible that im joking)

[twilit juniper]

(It’s also possible to acknowledge that “stego main” and “deino main” are legitimately isle community insults like irl curse words are 💀 it’s weird but isle community is weird)

[white dagger]

ik

i also don't really care

[twilit juniper]

👍

[stark knoll]

Was the suggestion a joke or just this convo?

[twilit juniper]

I wouldn’t know Lunary XD it’s both odd

[white dagger]

both but fr stego needs to be limited somehow

[fresh laurel]

Stego was added too early

[twilit juniper]

Stego is also said to be an unofficial servers creature only eventually

[stark knoll]

Possibly

[twilit juniper]

I hope it’s not, stego cool

Just needs to be made viable against apexes once it’s time

[frail bobcat]

Will apexes be a thing on officials at all?

[golden coral]

They do, just like deino, but as deino shows, giving benefits for killing your own isn't always ideal, depending on the benefit (cannibalism for deino obviously, which allows them to just feed on each other forever).

[stark knoll]

Not on the release of rex and trike, though possibly in the future

We have no idea what the official server roster (or rosters) will look like, it's possible that a few officials will have them and others may not

[white dagger]

can people stop pinging me now

[golden coral]

I hope they go through with changing stego for kentro and putting stego on unofficials as well. Kentro good critter!

[frail bobcat]

Yesnt

[dusky surge]

That's not a permanent thing though, right?

Wouldn't really make much sense

[stark knoll]

Stego will still be on officials when rex and trike release apparently

People are referring to the far future

[frail bobcat]

If stego goes, deino has to go too

[golden coral]

Deino could be handled in some ways to be fair, so stego might not neccesarily be needed

[dusky surge]

Why would the stego be removed far future from officials???

What kind of bizarre decision is that

[stark knoll]

Dunno, I'm speaking purely in hypotheticals

[strange dust]

why not both? we'll probably get a carnivore that can take on stego at some point. allo, alberto and acro seem like pretty good contenders

[stark knoll]

If different officials have different dinos available it's possible that stego isn't on some of them. It's also possible that official servers will all have the same roster, too

[strange dust]

or maybe a herbivore that has a similar diet so it has competition

[twilit juniper]

I don’t think so, Kissen said when Kentro is added, stego might become a AI Dino or a unofficial servers Dino

[dusky surge]

bizarre as hell

[frail bobcat]

Bizarre as heaven

[dusky surge]

if deino remains, stego should too

[golden coral]

I believe there was potentially the idea of replacing stego with kentro, which I'm personally fine with, since I want stego to get a proper rework anyway, and kentro is still close to a stego so I already like it.

[stark knoll]

It's possible that would happen, the convo with Kissen only mentioned stego tho

No one brought up deino

[golden coral]

Yeah, but before we get those, I imagine.

[strange dust]

why are they making some dinos like rex and trike unavailable on official servers anyway? yes apexes are a problem in legacy but people will just play the next best thing (carno is currently the biggest land carnivore in evrima and there's a bit of a population problem)'

[golden coral]

I just think it'd be fine, and I'm not as worried about deino because I think there's better ways to make deino a good playable than have stego or something else be there to "counter" it

[stark knoll]

Their initial release is on unofficials so they can gauge their power and function on a roster that won't support them well

[somber sphinx]

Water clarity
Jump/dodge when drinking
My beloveds

[golden coral]

Just so!

[somber sphinx]

Gateway has water clarity so now we only need the dodge

[dusky surge]

Also aren't the unofficial animals eventually coming to officials after they've been tested and the roster can support them

[strange dust]

kentro is a lot smaller than stego so i'm not sure it's a good replacement

we'll see what the devs have planned with the dinos mentioned i guess