balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

true

the concept bores the hell out of me

we already know cera has a hefty advantage against omni, no need to also make it demolish carno

[willow cliff]

that’s another thing it should most certainly not be immune to omniraptor groups

they could’ve made it venom resistant to deal with the likes of troodon,just giving it above average bleed resistance would’ve been fine

I do agree with the idea of Cera being larger than anticipated, 1.3-1.5 tons wouldn’t do harm

[dusky surge]

1.8 or plus would, however

[willow cliff]

at that point it’s just better carno since it can shrug off its charges

[dusky surge]

i mean

its implied it already can, because of course it can

incredible

[willow cliff]

Carno when it’s unable to hunt the small tier

[fallow blaze]

I never said as hunter 😉
I can't express myself very well in English.
I'll try your words
i think he will be dominant. but not as a hunter.
he is slow and more. in another way.
It is an assassin, but that does not necessarily mean that it will automatically be weaker than the Cerato. If the Cerato weight goes in the direction of 1.8 tons, it becomes difficult for the Carno.

[dusky surge]

i doubt it'll even be an assassin

[willow cliff]

Cerato would be a difficult opponent for carno even at 1 ton, considering it can ignore charges

plus the super high dps and the septic bite? not looking good

[dusky surge]

cerato seems terrible as an ambush hunter

slow speed and low damage per attack

most animals can just flee it

[fallow blaze]

He will surely not be a asaassin

[past raven]

thats what the septic bite for and the sneaking up on

[willow cliff]

I’m kinda disappointed what they did with cerato, but at least it’s better than 2 ton cerallosarus

[dusky surge]

no it isnt?

[past raven]

elaborate

[willow cliff]

the septic bite is meant to negate animals from eating its food

[dusky surge]

the sceptic bite is for self-defence and bullying

[willow cliff]

it’s a purely defensive attack

[dusky surge]

its a terrible offensive attack

[past raven]

yea like a distraction?

[dusky surge]

no

like a "stop eating my food or ill remove the contents of your stomach"

[willow cliff]

cerato overall seems like a slow defensive bully glutton who can bully the smalls

[dusky surge]

which is great

[willow cliff]

it’s a good idea in theory, we just have to see it in game now

[dusky surge]

ambush attackers require quick attacks with brutal, instant results. carno is a terrible ambush hunter in concept because it lives in open plains and needs a running start to attack. cera is a terrible ambush hunter because it has low damage attacks with a delayed sceptic effect, and can be outrun by most of the roster

deino is the only properly good ambush hunter

[fallow blaze]

Agree

yes how good he will be depends on his weight.
in legacy he was over 2 tons. there is only a placeholder on his profile now. So who knows.

if it gets as heavy as the carno, it can deal as much damage as a pachy. his mechanics will decide the fight for him.
the carno could not knock him over.

[dusky surge]

it would be horrible if as, or more, heavy than the carno

legacy's weight was compensating for the fact that it'd be worthless if lighter due to how legacy balanced weights

[willow cliff]

I think the point is it doesn’t necessarily have to be BIG to be viable

even if it’s smaller it’s attributes still make it an absurdly dangerous dinosaur

it having stun resistance already proves it

[tall bronze]

Wait, stun resistance? 😮

[dusky surge]

is stun resistance CONFIRMED

because if it is i already hate cerato

[willow cliff]

Didn’t they say cerato wasn’t going to be as vulnerable to charge

[tall bronze]

I don't remember seeing that 😮

[dusky surge]

that could mean anything

[tall bronze]

Hopefully it means charge itself not punching up as high as it does currently 😛

[dusky surge]

it could mean it has several options to punish charge

that would be the best outcome

[willow cliff]

Maybe so, if it actually does have stun resistance Cera is going to absolutely be meta until Allo is out

[fallow blaze]

@willow cliff I share your opinion.

[tall bronze]

Let it do that thing where it grabs on to the charging opponent and plants it's feet in the ground and slides

[willow cliff]

thanks

Cerato backflip super slam

[fallow blaze]

They did: of larger and small animals

[willow cliff]

Ohhhh

Guys cerato might be immune to charge

[dusky surge]

god it better not be

that has terrible implications for balance

[willow cliff]

I’m just waiting for the balance feedback war whenever it releases

[fallow blaze]

that was my point
Cerato is neither a hunter nor an assassin.
but I think he has the potential, whether alone or with 2 or 3 others, to mess up country life.

that would be totally ok, because if the Allo comes like you imply, he loses his "throne" <- whatever that might look like.

[dusky surge]

people will defend cerato like christ

[tall bronze]

[dusky surge]

ceratorex is a genuine beloved concept to these people

they hate stego so much that they want a completely new stego except carnivore

[tall bronze]

I'm all for Cerato being a lizard badger, but stun resistance would be a w e e bit much and make it uh.....lame. That'd be like showing off how something has cool special armor that makes it uniquely resistant to damage, and then you just go and make it's health absurdly high.

....if that makes sense

[thin mantle]

At that point it just facetanks teno and Pachy out of the game

[fallow blaze]

I'm glad I don't feel addressed haha

[tall bronze]

I would rather Carno charge itself get tweaked to not knock down stuff so high like Teno

[dusky surge]

i love animals invalidating other animals

[thin mantle]

Well yes, but I’m talking about Cerato

[tall bronze]

[thin mantle]

Like…unless teno blatantly outdps’ Cerato it dies

[tall bronze]

[thin mantle]

In a world where Cerato is just immune to stuns

Cuz funny Cerato tank

[tall bronze]

Blegh

[thin mantle]

Pops it’s fortify, gets overhealth

[tall bronze]

The idea of making it a literal tank is just so boring ;C It's much more interesting to have gimmicks as work arounds to threats instead of just inflated numbers.

[tall bronze]

[fallow blaze]

Unfortunately, it also reads like a tank

[thin mantle]

That’s the entire purpose of its size! Like it’s intentionally designed with its size in mind so that it had to engage threats in unconventional ways

It’s what interests me about it

[tall bronze]

Mmmhm, that's why I hope they don't go nuts with it's fatness

[thin mantle]

Or it’s DR

[tall bronze]

Because it's been implied before Cerato is chonky

[thin mantle]

It’s also been implied that it sorta just….beats Carno

So yknow…

[tall bronze]

Guess we gotta see ;c I remember the whole "one does not simply charge a rot wagon" thing which to me, sounded more like Cerato just being REALLY good at defense which is fine.

But then Bryan mentioned it just bodying Carno which I did not like the sound of. Of course, there is the chance it could just be weird wording <:P

Blegh I hate that term >:I

[thin mantle]

I swear if you that means anything other than “Carno is getting it’s charge threshold lowered”

Ew…

[tall bronze]

[thin mantle]

@carmine root Fractures aren’t chance based, attacks that deal it have fracture damage values, fractures occur when fracture thresholds are met

[dusky surge]

such an unfun way to address an interesting matchup

[thin mantle]

Nor should they ever be chance based

[thin mantle]

You either just die…or you obliterate your opponent

Nothing in between

[carmine root]

ok sorry

[tall bronze]

⬛ ⬜

[fallow blaze]

just one question: would that be so bad?
I mean, from what I'm reading here, we're not those gamers which plays like: we live to kill.

I really like the Carno! but for me any carni may replace him up to the public branch at update 9 i think it was.

it would be boring if there weren't any better carni before the public branch.

[carmine root]

sorry, didnt know

[thin mantle]

Yes that’s terrible, ideally matchups require skillful engagement more often than not

It has nothing to do with preference

[dusky surge]

like, let cera destroy omnis, idc, but carno should be seen as its rival

[thin mantle]

Basically

And conversely, something like teno is probably something you want to treat purely with defense

It has an animal it bodies, one it fights contentiously, and one it defends from obligatorily

[dusky surge]

idk if it's being overhyped, miscommunicated or just outright unbalanced for the sake of appealing to ceratorex fans, but either way, its not great

the more i hear about cerato, the less i like it

which is really sad seeing as cerato's primary concept is so exceptionally interesting to me

[thin mantle]

Sorta just sounds like a statistically warped acro

[fallow blaze]

oh my fault
That's what I meant
both would be at the top of the food chain.

[thin mantle]

They can’t be with deino in the game

[tall bronze]

If it ends up being unwise to mess with as Carno if it's defending food, I'm fine with it. But please no "no, Cerato just BEATS Carno, period"

[dusky surge]

true lol

[fallow blaze]

Just on land

[thin mantle]

I mean….yeah also on land

Deino would body both

[dusky surge]

cerato should be a risky thing to contest, but not something that just feels unbeatable

[thin mantle]

But if it’s JUST JUST on land…then yeah they have to be

They’re the two largest carnivores

[dusky surge]

why even have the sceptic bite despite literally rubbing poison in a wound, if cera just kills carno easily anyways

[fallow blaze]

Oh i see
Well then your right

[thin mantle]

Like if it’s stun resistant, has blatant damage resistance, treats bleed like a legacy maia, why on earth does it need a septic bite

[dusky surge]

the sceptic bite serves no functional purpose besides making cera fights even less fun if cera just obliterates carno

[tall bronze]

Mmmhm. Otherwise it's just uh....boring.

[thin mantle]

“None of your attacks work on me, and I can disable both your ability to attack and your movement entirely”

Like Cerato is basically the anti combat dino

[dusky surge]

honestly

cera being designed this way would probably end up making cera players get the opposite of what they want

[thin mantle]

Nerf hammer

[tall bronze]

🔨

[dusky surge]

you don't get to be a big cool fighter brawler, instead you get to watch as everyone leaves and never bothers to fight because what's the point?

[willow cliff]

I’m ceratosaurus

[dusky surge]

why fight a fight you can't win?

[thin mantle]

Oh even worse, it turns into deino

[tall bronze]

I mean let's be fair.....there will be plenty of people who fight Cera who has food, die, then complain

[fallow blaze]

That will come for sure

[dusky surge]

deino without the ability to ambush

so worse deino

[tall bronze]

It ends up being too big like Deino 👍

[thin mantle]

Mhm, but at the same time better deino, because at least Cerato can trick you into thinking you stand a chance

Why can’t the game just be fun

[tall bronze]

No. Omni pin

https://tenor.com/view/pounce-the-chance-to-strike-leap-jump-on-neatdad-gif-16767001

[thin mantle]

Man I really hope beipi isn’t my personal highlight for U6.5

[thin mantle]

I feel like it’s both your job to make me laugh and depressed simultaneously

[dusky surge]

its so funny how people see no fundamental problem with cera being this way btw

[tall bronze]

[dusky surge]

people are EXCITED for a cerato that just wins

[thin mantle]

It’s not Carno so it’s fine

[tall bronze]

I'm not ;c

[dusky surge]

because apparently that will balance out the ecosystem

[thin mantle]

“Carno needs competition👏”

[dusky surge]

having a dino that easily destroys the current roster, and the roster post U6.5 will surely lead to a more balanced roster

[thin mantle]

Isn’t that why Carno is such a big issue rn?

Hard counters everything that it doesn’t

[willow cliff]

they’ll make cerato so overtuned they’ll have to add allosaurus to the mix to compensate

[dusky surge]

stupid question cerato is different because

uh

it just is

[tall bronze]

I never did understand the "add a bigger/stronger carnivore to compete!" stuff.

Because then what competes with THAT thing? Itself? Then you just get nothing but that creature.

[thin mantle]

It has 3 horns instead of a measly 2

[dusky surge]

people want cera killing stegos btw. Just thought I'd throw that out there

[willow cliff]

6 ton animal

[thin mantle]

Actually how do they fathom

[tall bronze]

No**.**

[willow cliff]

vs 1 ton animal

[thin mantle]

In what cosmos

[dusky surge]

balance out the roster of course

[willow cliff]

where is the logic behind this

[tall bronze]

Like I get it, I despise Stego's existence right now, but No.

[dusky surge]

this will fix all of our current problems

[willow cliff]

in what world does cerato survive a stego encounter

[thin mantle]

Cerato tanks through tailslam, deletes stegos entire stamina bar with malaria

[tall bronze]

Australia

[dusky surge]

its TANKY and STRONG and has SCEPTIC BITE cera wins

[willow cliff]

sorry the mighty carnivore always wins

[thin mantle]

Good thing that isn’t real

[willow cliff]

silly me

[tall bronze]

🙃

[thin mantle]

Grass reduces your chances of survival by at least 80%

[willow cliff]

You think a HERBIVORE can fight back???

[thin mantle]

Unless you’re a Pachy

[tall bronze]

🪦

[dusky surge]

pachy NEEDS to be able to kill carnos how else can it survive

[thin mantle]

Then you’re fine, but oh wait! Cerato is immune to the concept of STOPPING

[willow cliff]

new hit isle update where they remove attacks from herbivores

[dusky surge]

stego needs to die to two omnis tho

[tall bronze]

Stoopit deathmatch mindset >:C

[thin mantle]

Ironically that’s literally how it worked an update ago

[thin mantle]

Even with the deathmatch mindset this is still terrible balance

[tall bronze]

Mmmhm

[dusky surge]

it doesnt even engage in the deathmatch lol

cerato is honestly the make or break of 6.5

[tall bronze]

I just hate the whole mindset of "NO, NO RUNNING AWAY, MUST FIGHT OR DIE"

[thin mantle]

It either sweeps or gets ignored

[tall bronze]

🧹

[dusky surge]

no other animal has had this much info that actively concerns me

[willow cliff]

Knowing how much the community loves cerato being unstoppable I’m assuming it’s going to be too good

[dusky surge]

even troodon seems like it has a lot better balance and design philosophy

all i hear about cerato is how much winning it's capable of

[thin mantle]

Troodon at least feels easier to balance because it’s really goddamn fast

[tall bronze]

Bit of a random tangent, but how would ye say it's NV should be? 😮

[dusky surge]

the only time cera has ever been illustrated as not an outright winner is in the allo matchup, an animal which won't exist for a good while

[thin mantle]

Fine to poor

Best nose in the game after all

[tall bronze]

Mmmhm, I'd say below average.

[dusky surge]

it can navigate with its insane smell

[willow cliff]

averageish maybe? Only because it’s an attritional scavenger

[thin mantle]

Tho I hate current NV so I’m a poor person to ask on this

[willow cliff]

Night vision in this game has never been good sadly

[thin mantle]

Shadow vision ftw

[tall bronze]

It smells the land and builds an image in it's head

[thin mantle]

Eyeless concept circa 2018

[willow cliff]

Neuro strain

[tall bronze]

I'm still not entirely certain what the shadow vision thing means ;-;

[willow cliff]

Vision that is a shadow

[tall bronze]

[fallow blaze]

yeah that's something i'm scared of.
Of course, legacy wasn't balanced, it was buggy and you could just see: everyone plays Apexes, the Trex 8 = boring

it's hard for me to see why it should be different later in evrima?

I really like playing the inferior race.

but i don't think anyone will play the current selection of dinosaurs if giga, acro, rex, spino, deinocheirus and so on are in the game.
Everybody will just play apexes

[thin mantle]

They just need to not be terrible tbf

[tall bronze]

Well hopefully apexes are actually a challenge this time, both to grow and maintain.

As well as non-apexes not just being bad

[thin mantle]

Like the 3rd or 4th most played legacy dino was Utah

[willow cliff]

Apexes are cool and all but personally I enjoy playing mid tiers the most

[thin mantle]

Because Utah was the strongest animal in the game

[willow cliff]

people who play apexes just because it’s an apex are lame

[tall bronze]

It feels cooler to me when the big powerful thing you are is actually unique and not Rex #423

Tis why I find Deino so boring

No fun if there's 800 others

"I am a Deinosuchus adult!"

[fallow blaze]

Agree Makes mor fun

[tall bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/clone-clones-buzz-lightyear-toy-story-gif-21609842

[willow cliff]

mmmmm we have wayyyy to many apexes confirmed for the roster

[fallow blaze]

Also agree

[willow cliff]

I would be just fine with Rex giga trike and shant as the biggens but that’s just me personally

[thin mantle]

Personally I’d prefer to literally just have rex, or giga, along with trike shant and spino

And I’m iffy with spino

I’d almost prefer to just have cheirus and deino

Or just cheirus and spino

[dusky surge]

if they did spino in a way that means it can be the generalist aquatic apex that contests with these two specialists, and not "kill deino ez lol", I'd appreciate the spino's existence

[thin mantle]

Mhm

Tho I'd easily take it over deino in a heartbeat because it coalesces better with the other semiaquatics

[dusky surge]

no thanks

[dusky surge]

i mean, i just really prefer spino being mega generalist bully where nowhere is safe, land or water

[willow cliff]

Wow

I wonder how many zip bombs I’ll get if I click that server

[dusky surge]

I have come to a new carno charge idea

Which has the classic Wavepoole overcomplication and complexity

Thank me later

[distant torrent]

how would you feel about having a small time frame to progress to higher charges to add to the planning, concentration, and complexity similar to how troodon apparently has a time frame to stack venom without getting it reset

[dusky surge]

it does have a time frame

3 seconds of sprinting for charge 1, 2 seconds of charge 1 for charge 2, 1 second of charge 2 for charge 3

It's basically just acceleration

You can't go from regular sprint to charge 3

You have to work up to it

[distant torrent]

I mean a limited time frame for advancing to the next charge. say if you stay in charge 1 past a certain amount of time, you won’t be able to advance to charge 2 and have to restart the charge

[dusky surge]

nah

that's too punishing, you're already losing stamina

the stamina drain already counts for that mechanic

[distant torrent]

ah

[dusky surge]

like i want it to feel a little more involved, but it shouldn't feel micro-managey

[distant torrent]

well I like your idea as long as getting hit in the tail won’t stun you lmao

[dusky surge]

it won't, that's an issue with carno's current hitbox

an issue confirmed to be getting patched

[distant torrent]

sweet

[neon willow]

@dusky surge I feel like 3 seconds of running is too long to activate base charge... I would reduce tier 1 time to activate and reduce damage to 2 seconds and 75 damage. Then I'd increase the time for tier 3 to 2 seconds... It shouldnt be that hard to use carnos special, but if you want the most bang for your buck, you have to be the most careful about setup. Really basic charge should be mostly crowd control/stun (giving opportunity to turn and bite for stacking damage), and being able to one shot/devastatingly cripple with it should require much better skill and timing

[dusky surge]

75 damage is far too low

Timing shouldn't be necessary

Spacing and positioning should play the greater factor

2 seconds universally is good tho

better than 3 2 1

Making charge a timing based move doesn't work well

spacing should play much more of a part

[thin mantle]

Yes.....

Simply yes

[keen plover]

More thought to Carno gameplay with more skill expression 😯

[thin mantle]

Who thought it was even possible

Now to fix deino

[slim dragon]

I think that charge idea now is too complex

Also it takes 6 full seconds of sprint to reach charge 3 which is... huge

[keen plover]

Tbf it is a 'concept'. I like a decent amount of the idea. Timings and the amount of stages can be changed. I do want more skill expression for Carno though and more thought to the creature.

[slim dragon]

Yeah, but I think the added complexity there is overkill

I still like the idea of charge being replaced by a drifting headbutt more

[thin mantle]

I personally crave that level of complexity for carno

[dusky surge]

i have no possible conception of how a drifting headbutt could possibly work or look good on a carno lol

i also dont think its THAT complex tbh

[slim dragon]

I'll make an animation of that when I have time to

[golden coral]

@plush pantherOn the one hand, taking out stego so it can get a proper rework, power up, and all that wouldn't go amiss. On the other, people would probably be upset if they just took out a functioning and fun enough playable. So not sure which option would be best. I guess when rex and trike come in they could pull stego and deino as well and put them all on unofficials only, and see how that goes.

[plush panther]

ok, idk about a rework, just put back stego when the dino got purpose

[cyan root]

I still find it strange that stego didnt come out with allo

[plush panther]

sorry but being just unkillable and invincible is not what i would call fun

[slim dragon]

it's purpose is to prevent deino from going even more on land than it does now

[plush panther]

that maybe the first point i can accept

like fr, there is pachy, teno, raptor and carno, they all can fight each other

most of the time, the better win

and there is deino and stego, who are just no match to every1

why make the game so balance, and put 2 dinos like that

[golden coral]

AI designed animal I believe.

[golden coral]

It's not. Stego is far more killable and much less powerful overall than deino.

[slim dragon]

If there was no stego nor deino carno would be the animal that has no match, problem unsolved

[plush panther]

nah

good pachy or teno can take him down, and just fix his hitbox a bit

[golden coral]

Well, with deino in, unless it got a severe nerf, stego is the only thing that can even remotely threaten it. (and not really, its all up to the deino anyway).

[plush panther]

as a raptor, if u got a bit of skill, u can perma dodge carno ram

that all skilled matchup

[slim dragon]

A good pack of raptors can take a stego down
And if you have 1 braincell with any playable you can perma-dodge its tailswipes

[plush panther]

yeah, but only if raptor do 0 mistake, that the stego is alone, no one come to interact on the fight for about 5-10m

and if the stego know op spot, raptor got 0 chance

[golden coral]

Yeah, I don't think carno is meant to be soloable by an omni, much less a pachy. So that's a bit of an issue.

[cyan root]

God forbid someone uses the environment to their advantage

[golden coral]

At least stego can be hunted, meanwhile, deino goes into river and force logs because 10 min air means you can do that now :p

[plush panther]

ok, but there is spot where u can't die if u play well

so u need so much conditions

for maybe taking down 1 stego

[golden coral]

Yes, all of the water for deino. Or heck, be a ptera, and you're almost immortal.

[plush panther]

yeah but who care about ptera, that hypsi tier, 0 dmg, 0 health

[golden coral]

No matter how you look at it, stego is far from the most survivable critter. And far from the most threat to everything else as well.

[slim dragon]

Me when playing strategically is rewarded :

[cyan root]

Know when to give up a hunt. If your prey wedges itself somewhere you can’t fight it, its game over, no matter what it is. Even a Teno can do that.

[plush panther]

ah yes, it is when u play something that need skillz

[golden coral]

If you care about survival or not. Which was the point. Why does it matter if it's a stego, you don't need to kill it, any more than you need to kill a ptera?

[plush panther]

but not as stego

[golden coral]

So only teno then xD

[plush panther]

raptor ?

[golden coral]

No

[slim dragon]

I saw bad stegos
I saw skilled stegos
I can tell the difference easily

[plush panther]

the thing that get oneshot by every1

[golden coral]

Being oneshot has nothing to do with it, at all.

[plush panther]

right click right clickright click right click right click

[golden coral]

Otherwise being a hypsi or ptera would require the most skill in the game :p

[slim dragon]

Raptor gameplay ?

[cyan root]

Stam Wasting Simulator

[slim dragon]

Wait no you only have to click once with raptor

[golden coral]

You forgot click and hold :p

@plush pantherFundamentally, if you compare the playables, there are far more survivable playables, and far more threatening playables, and in the case of deino, the actually "immortal" and unhuntable playable compared to stego. So no matter how you look at it, stego is not a problem compared to some of the others that are far more inbalanced and "OP" in some manner.

[plush panther]

deino dies to other deino aha

[golden coral]

Stegos die to other stegos.

[dusky surge]

omni gameplay: right click right clickright click right click right click
carno gameplay: right click right clickright click right click right click
deino gameplay: right click right clickright click right click right click
pachy gameplay: right click right clickright click right click right click
teno gameplay: right click right clickright click ALT right click right click

but stego's bad because it right differently from every other right click

[plush panther]

nah cuz stego got 10x more dmg and health the whole roaster

[dusky surge]

completely untrue

[golden coral]

It does not, at all.

[plush panther]

it is

[dusky surge]

deino has more health

[plush panther]

deino stay in water

only braindead stego loose to deino

[cyan root]

Dude is frothing at the mouth bc he can’t solo a Stego as an Omni

[dusky surge]

deino can also one tap 4000 health targets, whereas stego can't one tap animals over 2 tons

[golden coral]

Deino has 2K more health, 2K more blood, plus massive bleed resistance on top of that. And an entire safety biome. A one shot ability on more things than stego do, in an easier manner. And still has massive damage.

[plush panther]

not like u could run away on land with stego

[dusky surge]

not like u could swim away safely in water with deino

[plush panther]

BAHAHAH THEY CAN

[golden coral]

And you can swim away as deino, and be more untouchable. A deino in water is only touchable to another deino. A stego on land is touchable to the rest of the roster.

[plush panther]

fg stego, oneshot fg carno in the head

crazy

[dusky surge]

that's not over 2 tons

[stark knoll]

That's less than 2 tons

[plush panther]

oh y 1.8

[dusky surge]

my point stands

[golden coral]

Yes, a specific spot. While deino can grab the carno no matter the part of the body and that's it.

[plush panther]

why does it cost to make the game a bit more balance ?

[golden coral]

You can also fight back vs a stego, but if you're grabbed by deino, you just... die.

[dusky surge]

deino can one tap a 4 ton animal with a shot to the leg

[plush panther]

want realism ?

[stark knoll]

Over double the weight of stego's 1shot too

[golden coral]

No, because that'd be quite harsh for gameplay.

[dusky surge]

making the game balanced would entail nerfing deino and not touching stego, but that's not what you wanna hear is it

[plush panther]

nerf both

[dusky surge]

nerf neither

[plush panther]

stego need nerf

[dusky surge]

no it dont

[plush panther]

they are just unbalance

[dusky surge]

its not even in the top 3 most OP animals in U6

[slim dragon]

Deino does not need a nerf but a lunge rework

[cyan root]

I bet this guy wont complain about Rex when its inevitably ridiculously overpowered like it is in every other dino game ever

[dusky surge]

pachy, carno and deino are all far stronger, and ptera remains god of viability as always

[plush panther]

in that game state, they are just op, that a facts

[slim dragon]

Stego will need a buff once apexes come

[golden coral]

That too yes. Was more so that stego do need to aim the swing properly. Speaking of deino, I "sniped" a carno trying to charge cross (where it could still run). Unfortunately I messed up so it still got away, but I'm somewhat proud of timing my lunge to it running past like that :p

[dusky surge]

its MEANT to be OP it's rex, crybabies dont know how to deal with it smh smh

[golden coral]

It does not. Stego is far better off than deino is.

[plush panther]

legacy rex kekw

[golden coral]

Deino needs to be nerfed far more than stego.

[dusky surge]

what

what about legacy rex lol

[plush panther]

@dusky surge ur just apex fan who like bam bam me strong

[dusky surge]

???????

[slim dragon]

Don't deny the facts

[golden coral]

This plus a few other things for it's mechanic. And stego could do with more attacks and more variable combat, if we ever get that.

[cyan root]

The one thing I agree with you on lol Rex deserve to be balanced just like everything else

[hollow canyon]

what kind of nerf and why?

[plush panther]

because they are invincible

[hollow canyon]

They're not

[dusky surge]

thats right, its why i never touch stego and deino, because i love the power fantasy

[hollow canyon]

2 Deinos can kill a Stego easily

[golden coral]

Honestly, legacy rex is some of the more "balanced" ones, now look at giga instead :p

[hollow canyon]

1 Deino can kill a Stego if it outplays it

[plush panther]

WHAT

[plush panther]

if the stego is braindead yes

[golden coral]

Yes. Giga was a bit more oppressive overall than rex.

[dusky surge]

legacy rex was protected by body down rules, without them, it was kinda pathetic against most packs of animals

[golden coral]

Rex alt turn = not too bad. Giga alt turn = you can't touch me.

[plush panther]

u mean how rex can snipe 20m away on the left ?

[hollow canyon]

you definitely have to be better than the Stego by quite a bit

[golden coral]

Just like most playables in legacy have quite some strange hitbox. Also why would you ever need to worry about the left hithox unless you play on no alt and deliberately negate the rex other way to defend?

[hollow canyon]

Oh wait, you think legacy Rex was overpowered, any discussion will be difficult

since in Evrima it's meant to be relatively stronger than in legacy

[golden coral]

So if you want to argue that "but hitbox broken", sure, but normally a rex would not need to care about that beause you know, it can alt turn. That only happens because well, no alt means broken balance xD

[plush panther]

nah but

u guys are trolls, rex is the most broken thing is legacy

[dusky surge]

it was OP in the servers which basically cradled it like a young child and never allowed it to undergo hardship

which was pretty much all of them

[hollow canyon]

lol

[forest ginkgo]

wtf

[hollow canyon]

have you even played that game?

[forest ginkgo]

rex is not balance

[dusky surge]

giga is far more powerful

[hollow canyon]

Rex in legacy is far from the most broken animal

Spino is far more oppressive than T.rex or Giga

[dusky surge]

playing rex on non-body down rule servers is actually sad

[hollow canyon]

Rex is literally good at only one thing - killing things 1v1

[dusky surge]

the poor thing gets killed by the first allo pack that sees it

[golden coral]

It's really not. You for some reason don't seem to understand how stats and balance actually work. You look at stego and deino and you think stego is the op one. Despite all the things in deinos favour.

[dusky surge]

the best part is they're so confident because they're big bad rex that their demise is all the more crushing

[forest ginkgo]

the rex has a 1/3 chance of breaking his legs with a hit, he has a very high attack brute force yes (1200dmg of memory) and a hitbox that allows you to sniper at 20m.
If you find rex balance you are just new to the game

[dusky surge]

you put a rex against an allo pack and i guarantee you 3 minutes in it's begging for its life in global and spamming 4 call

[hollow canyon]

I guess for someone who just mashes one button hoping to win a facetank T.rex and Stego will indeed be the most overpowered animals

[cyan root]

I mean in a video game I think its understandable that a lone rex goes down to a group of 4+ allos

[hollow canyon]

whose legs?

[dusky surge]

it could go down if 2 allos decided they wanted it dead, the only thing stopping that from happening consistently was body down

seriously, body down basically was what made rexes so immortal

they're 1v1 gods

[golden coral]

And giga has amazing trot, damage and bleed to kill most things anyway, and can hunt you far more and for far longer, and with alt turn, has far better defense than rex ever had. Overall, giga is far superior to rex, and then there's the sandbox dinos too if you want to count them.

[cyan root]

I never played Legacy so idk how that worked, so at this point I’m just vibing watching this go down lol

[dusky surge]

giga was stupid

[slim dragon]

Unlike the allosaurus, who was an intelligent creature

[forest ginkgo]

nice troll guys

[hollow canyon]

Giga is a higher skill, less solo-inclined apex that lost 1v1s far more often but was a vastly more efficient killer

if you think T.rex was the most broken animal in legacy you're either new to the game or you're not very good at it

[forest ginkgo]

1vs1 rex vs giga, rex wins every day

[hollow canyon]

"1v1"

as I said

literally the only thing Rex was good at

[plush panther]

maybe u guys cant play rex

and dont know hot to exploit it, its fine ig

[hollow canyon]

Maybe you can't play other apexes

two Trikes dumpster a T.rex

meanwhile a Spino can walk into 3 Trikes and kill them all

[dusky surge]

literally the only thing rex is good at is 1v1ing, of course it wins, but rex sucks once you take it out of a 1v1 scenario

[plush panther]

lmao

u know rex had 20m hitbox ?

[golden coral]

Yes. That's one minimal part of it all. You can't just argue balance or "op" based on only that.

[plush panther]

when u turn full left and spam left click

[dusky surge]

yes, you keep reminding me

that really doesn't change my point though

[golden coral]

Or maybe we understand that there's more factors to it all. Just like with stego, that you don't take into account?

[hollow canyon]

that's only some idiotic bug that occurred when they dropped the works on that version

half a dozen of hitboxes got broken in that game as time went on with the small changes they had to do

when they removed the IK system Para's hitboxes stopped registering

[golden coral]

Also only good for no alt, which should say it all. Broken hitboxes are also not exclusive to rex from what I know at least.

[forest ginkgo]

2 giga vs 1 rex the rex wins easily, it is enough that the gigas are the broken legs

[dusky surge]

????

what kind of garbage gigas are losing to a single rex in a 2v1

[golden coral]

It does not. Not unless those gigas are quite bad. They can at that point literally facetank it to death.

[hollow canyon]

if 2 Gigas don't take down a Rex that's such a major skill issue it's just baffling

[dusky surge]

with or without body down rules the gigas should take that easily

[golden coral]

This is like "5 deinos cant kill a stego"? :p

[hollow canyon]

You can literally suicide one Giga into that Rex, bite it 4 times and the Rex is dead

[forest ginkgo]

you talk about running with the rex, but if you're going to run in the rex, you're just beginners

[hollow canyon]

yea, that's exactly what it is

[dusky surge]

??????

what are you talking about

[golden coral]

This is why I always worried about meeting gigas as rex. Because I knew that if they really wanted me dead, I'd die.

[hollow canyon]

what are you even talking about? It's not about running, that Rex can't run, it's just dead if the Gigas have at least one working brainlobe between them two

[hollow canyon]

well 1v1 they lose but if there's more of them Rex can do nothing but die

I have killed Gigas 1v2 as a Rex - they were skill issued

big time, both of them let me break their legs and finish them off

if Gigas do something like that - they're bad

If you're a bad player that will make it seems impressive, doesn't change the reality

[forest ginkgo]

you never played on semi-RP servers? These are things that happen very frequently, the outcome of the fight is always the same.
The rex has a broken hitbox, it can literally snipe creatures 20m away when it raises its head and turns left.
Only a very strong and practiced Utah can assride a rex.

[hollow canyon]

no, I don't play this game to roleplay

so I don't play on roleplay servers

I play on servers that let me kill stuff

[golden coral]

Yep. I didn't worry about one of them, but when they came in trios, I was pretty much "Okay, this calls for tricks", and had them die to the very steep mountainside instead of fighting them xD

[hollow canyon]

also - lul at Utah riding a T.rex

sounds like a joke

[golden coral]

Why are you using specific rule servers to try and talk balance? :p

[hollow canyon]

Giga devours Utahs alive even on no alt turn

[golden coral]

Also dear god, you think assriding means something, when it's mindless and says absolutely nothing about balance except that there's an issue.

[forest ginkgo]

it's normal while you don't understand, you are playing on no-rules servers so you can mixpack and you should definitely engage dinosaurs only if they are alone or injured

[hollow canyon]

mixpacking was not a thing on officials which are the only servers that matter for any balance-discussion

Idc what some people in the community do with their own servers

they're irrelevant for balance

[forest ginkgo]

Because for having played the rex for 300 hours, I can tell you that it is broken

[hollow canyon]

those are rookie numbers btw

[forest ginkgo]

ok guys

[hollow canyon]

You can play on your "RP servers" that cater to T.rex to make it better than it is

[forest ginkgo]

you are the champions of the world, your word is without fault, Amen

[hollow canyon]

but then don't complain about it being op

[keen plover]

Rex is broken in fights I guess? Garbage in any other scenario.

[hollow canyon]

legacy rex was broken at 1v1, in literally any other scenario it was inferior to Giga

not to mention Spino which was Giga on steroids

[golden coral]

You entirely missed my point didn't you. It's not broken, using rules does not tell anything about balance. Also, I got ten times that amount of hours, so I know better than you, no? :p

[golden coral]

What does mixing have to do with it?

@forest ginkgoIf you're not capable of looking at the playable, but have to excuse yourself with rules or otherwise, you're in the wrong. It's really that simple.

[forest ginkgo]

If you don't know that the rex has big balance problems and you don't know his hitbox, you just haven't played him enough. Besides, if I just taught you the technique for sniping creatures, it's because you shouldn't have this discussion, my friends

[dusky surge]

imagine needing a hitbox bug to be OP instead of just being naturally OP like giga

[hollow canyon]

the hitbox is a bug, it's not intended, it hasn't always been there

[dusky surge]

rexes stay losing

[hollow canyon]

Giga didn't need hitbox bugs

it was a beyblade

[keen plover]

Also giga has a busted hitbox as well

[golden coral]

The hitbox is just one small part, you're just not understanding all of it. Also "sniping" creatures? What? How difficult is it for you to grasp how balance actually work? Also you wouldnt even need the hitbox if alt turn was on like it should. Rex is not as imbalanced as giga and some of the others, it's that simple. Using any form of rules to excuse your own lack of understanding is entirely on you. Look at the playables as they actually play, fully and entirely.

[golden coral]

Yep xD

[forest ginkgo]

I will offer you to show you in the sandbox but I have the evrima version installed and I'm too lazy to install the legacy version for a few minutes, so have fun saying that the rex is weak, you are good trolls, gg

[hollow canyon]

it does but that's even beside the point, bugs that occurred after they stopped working on the game are irrelevant

https://youtu.be/EPCRnAURRFU?t=28

[hollow canyon]

Which part of "Rex is only good at 1v1" do you not understand?

[forest ginkgo]

yes i know, but now shes here

[golden coral]

No one said it was weak. We're saying giga is more overpowered, as is a few others, and that rex isnt that terribly unbalanced compared to them. But good on you for not understanding an ounce of balance.

[keen plover]

It being garbage doesn't mean it's weak

[golden coral]

Also there's nothing you can show because I bet you play on no alt and have a bunch of rules that makes your gameplay not work for balance.

So you know, your foundation is inherently flawed, because you're not playing on officials.

[hollow canyon]

it's irrelevant,t hat's not intended, your current experience on a community server that has artificial rules and bugs that cause absurd hitboxes don't determine how op each animal is

[keen plover]

If you died to Rex, then you were quite literally not playing the game well

[hollow canyon]

Giga has the same hitbox issue, every animal did

Giga also turns much better

[golden coral]

Trying to do balancing without understanding how a playable actually works, this is .... very odd.

[hollow canyon]

Giga also can pick its fights

Rex has to fight everything that decides to have a go at it because it can't escape anything

[forest ginkgo]

the leg breaking problem is also a problem, if the rex won't break his leg 1 out of 3 times and his hitbox would be fixed, then yes he would be op

[hollow canyon]

wdym "his leg"?

whose leg Rex breaks in 1 out of 3 times?

[forest ginkgo]

translator is broken too xD

[hollow canyon]

That actually explains why this conversation is so one-dimensional and why you don't address any point made

[forest ginkgo]

The rex has a 1 in 3 chance of breaking his enemy's leg

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't

you don't even know how the game works

[golden coral]

Doesn't bonebreak also work with the weight formula? :p

[hollow canyon]

it does

[golden coral]

Do you play with alt turn on?

[hollow canyon]

does he look like he plays with alt turn on?

[forest ginkgo]

I'm talking gigas, it's not constant, do the sandbox tests

[hollow canyon]

I don't think any alt turn servers are even left in legacy

[hollow canyon]

that chance is MUCH higher than 1 in 3

[keen plover]

Giga with alt turn meant you were essentially in the Galli class of immortality

[hollow canyon]

nah, not really, Giga with alt turn was still vulnerable to T.rex

[forest ginkgo]

I don't play legacy anymore, I stopped a few months ago to devote myself to Evrima

[hollow canyon]

even more than on no alt turn

and a good Giga on no alt killed everything that could try to tailride it anyways

[keen plover]

Yeah, but generally staying by open areas was the key imo. Or going around low pop areas to navigate the map

[hollow canyon]

to me it didn't matter much, I just aimed to never be seen before I could see others

and vast majority of the time it worked

[forest ginkgo]

I'm not criticizing the scale of the dinosaurs, I'm just criticizing the fact that the devs left Legacy leaving issues like this while there are still a lot of players in Legacy

[cyan root]

Unfortunately there’s not much you can do about that

[hollow canyon]

that's a whole different discussion than "T.rex was the most op dinosaur in legacy"

and a decision that wasn't made lightly

[forest ginkgo]

ok the sniping of the rex is a problem that is unforeseen, but it makes it very very strong anyway

[bright oasis]

Legacy was an unfixable mess even for the devs

[golden coral]

Uh... thats not at all my point anyway. It's RNG, we all know that. Doesn't mean your numbers are accurate.

[forest ginkgo]

yes, but it would have been good to at least fix the hitbox of some dinosaurs, wouldn't it?

[hollow canyon]

if they were to fix it they'd break 3 other things

[bright oasis]

No because legacy is an unfixable unworkable mess

[hollow canyon]

no, becaause they'd break three other things

they changed the IK system in legacy

and in return hitboxes of half the dinsoaurs broke

[bright oasis]

To the point even just fixing hitboxes could potentially break the entire game

[golden coral]

Would it have been nice with better balance, sure, but rex would not be one of the issues there. Para, pachy and so on would be the ones.

[hollow canyon]

and lightning broke

[forest ginkgo]

maybe, but it's a shame

[plush panther]

but rn

stego are problem, since no one can interact with them

[bright oasis]

Not really considering legacy will soon get the axe. Oh I cant wait for its death.

[cyan root]

My god

[plush panther]

[hollow canyon]

non-issue, you don't have to interact with them, let them just die of boredom. When Rex comes out it will make porkchops out of them unless they get a buff or something.

[plush panther]

yeah boring

and they can mixpack and body camp

making the game more boring

[dusky surge]

deino can do that but better

[forest ginkgo]

what i didn't understand is that the devs stopped the ankylosaurus from breaking other people's legs, but the rex can 🫠

[plush panther]

they are just boring dino, that add boring issue

[cyan root]

If you hate it soo much and if its ruining your experience soooo much, just don’t play

[plush panther]

nah the rest of the game is fun

[bright oasis]

The stego issue youre having is more just a small roster problem than anything else.

[plush panther]

just stego are boring and make part of the game boooooooring asf

[keen plover]

Do you think Deino doesn't do that?

[plush panther]

it does

both are badly design, deino can oneshot everything ( not stego hehe )

and u need safe spot for water

they cant die, unless canni

[golden coral]

Because the rex got into survival, while the anky did not. Sandbox critters are not adjusted for survival.

[plush panther]

i talk more about stego, cuz i know safe spot and i dont see deino that much

[golden coral]

You keep saying that, and you keep being wrong. :p

[plush panther]

i am not.

how do u interact with them ?

unless deino

[golden coral]

You are. You're making stego out to be a massive problem when there's playables that are far worse offenders, if you looked at them all properly. Also worse mix teams, such as pachy and teno, compared to teno and stego, or pachy and stego.

[plush panther]

( both can run away btw )

[golden coral]

You don't, any more than you interact with deino as the rest of the roster, or ptera.

The issue is that you don't acknowledge that ptera is much more immortal, and deino even more so, but stego somehow is the problem.

Deinos only die to deinos, stegos can die to a lot of the roster while growing, and dies to other stegos as adults.

Yet somehow you see stego as the problem while deino overall is just the same, but worse, because killing a juvie deino is a lot harder than killing a juvie stego for most of the roster. And so on. You're just looking at a fully grown stego, not taking anything else into account, and on top of that you fail to properly look at and compare it to the other large critter, this being deino.

[plush panther]

because ptera does nothing, and didnt met any problem deino since there is safe spot for water

[golden coral]

Stego overall is still more likely to die to carnos, or omnis, or even tenos or pachies, than deino is. At any point in life.

[plush panther]

yeah, deino are probleme aswell

[golden coral]

So you're ignoring ptera because, what, it doesn't do anything? That's not a valid argument because you claim stego is immortal, while ptera truly is it. You didn't put any criteria on stego "doing something", in order for it to count.

You can't just argue that "x is immortal" and then go "but y doesnt count because arbitrary reason".

[plush panther]

cuz ptera wont body camp or oneshot u at ur first mistake

[golden coral]

Neither of which are relevant for how easily you can kill something.

[plush panther]

they wont mixpacking and making friend invincible

[golden coral]

Oh but they do mixpack, scouting is a thing.

[plush panther]

i prefer scout than oneshot defense

[cyan root]

Dont let the stego hit you. Simple

[golden coral]

And stegos are quite terrible at defending friends for that matter. But the point still stands. You take specific issue but then you need to put down all of the criteria that you think needs to be met to make an issue. And then deino can still do everything stego does but even better.

[plush panther]

yeah dont interact with them

just boring, and meaningless

[golden coral]

But if it's a matter of "nothing can hunt it", there are worse offenders. If it's a matter of "too powerful", there are worse offenders. If it's a matter of "easy to grow", there are worse offenders. And overall, deino is the worse offender in all those criterias compared to stego.

[cyan root]

No, if you must fight a Stego, just don’t get hit.

[golden coral]

This is why you're wrong. You're claiming stego is the critter you can't interact with, while deino is the one critter where you truly have little to no chance to do anything but just not drink where one is if you want to be safe. A stego corpseguarding can and will leave, and it's not eating the corpse. A deino will eat it, all of it. A stego mixing is not much more lethal than a deino is, especially not with what sub deinos can do these days. A stego is more huntable, for more of the roster, for a longer period of time, than deino ever is. And on top of that, stego has to go get food in the open while deino can just go fish and snag some bones for perfect diet and then afk hidden in some bush along the river, not needing to worry about water at all.

[analog mirage]

You realize you don’t have to interact with stego. Just don’t fight it and you won’t die

[keen plover]

I'd much prefer them adding a lot more playables in the small & pseudo mid tier. After that, they can disable Stego & Deino from the official roster

[plush panther]

sorry guys

stego not that op, only took 4 adults carno 100 % and 1 raptor to take down 1 juv stego

[keen plover]

💀

[plush panther]

we all lost 80% hp

but stego balance !

[keen plover]

Could you stun it?

With charge

[plush panther]

no

btw he did 60% hp with 1 hit !!

[keen plover]

Yeah it’s probably 3 - 4t

[plush panther]

lucky i am

he is not 50% , or he would oneshoted me in head !

[keen plover]

50% stegos can’t one shot you to the head

Also I don’t know how you guys got that hurt with an Omni

[willow cliff]

Yeah only way you can reliably kill stego is with bleed, even then that’s not really that feasible right now since nobody plays omni

it’s possible to kill a stego as deino but the stego can simply run away

[plush panther]

he didnt play xD

[keen plover]

So it was 4 carnos vs 1 Stego. Tbf 3 at that size seems feasible

[plush panther]

yeah if we bait him and outplay !

[slim dragon]

Oh no
You have to use skill to kill other players

[golden coral]

That's not a juvie stego with those plates, I'm pretty sure. Also yes, you're a small game hunter, you're not meant to hunt stegos. And I'm pretty sure that stego is at least as heavy as your carnos, so you know, not ideal prey.

[golden coral]

Pretty sure you have to be almost fully grown to do that, isn't the damage just about enough when you're grown, to one shot?

[plush panther]

still 1v4

[keen plover]

Yeah

[plush panther]

we all 100%, him no

[golden coral]

Yes. Small game hunter vs a 3+T animal. This is fine.

[keen plover]

Stego deals 1200 or 1250 at full grown.

[golden coral]

That is by no means a juvie stego at the least.

[keen plover]

It’s one or the other

[slim dragon]

That stego couldn't run away, could it ? So it makes sense that it at least had a chance to defend itself

The fact none of you died proved that it's not that unkillable nor that powerful

[plush panther]

well sorry, but when someone met 4 full grown carno

[golden coral]

Now if that was a deino, it would have grabbed one of you, then run off into the river, and drowned you :p

[plush panther]

he shouldnt be able to 2 hit them !

[keen plover]

It’s also like double their size

[plush panther]

nah, was 20% more bigger max

[golden coral]

Maybe if you managed to only get headshots on you. Which is kind of on you. Especially since smaller stegos have worse reach with their tail.

[plush panther]

nah got on body or tail

[keen plover]

Then you would have been able to stun it.

[golden coral]

Not with that level of damage.

[plush panther]

did 30-40% hp

[golden coral]

Those weren't tail hits, considering a tail hit from a fully grown stego would do about, what, 600 damage or so?

[plush panther]

body then

[keen plover]

Could have been a head or body on their screen

[keen plover]

Full grown stego does 120n to the tail end of a carni

[golden coral]

Body, probably then yes.

[golden coral]

Yeah, but not tail end, the main tail/base

[keen plover]

Oh then like 400

[golden coral]

Not sure on that multiplier

[slim dragon]

I still don't know what the tail mutipliers are
Isn't it 25% for base of the tail and 10% for tailtip ?

[plush panther]

but even, shouldn't be that close for those kind of fight

[golden coral]

10% for tip I think is correct. The other I don't know, Bird here might know better.

[golden coral]

Why not? That stego had no way to escape, it was dead the moment you saw it.

[plush panther]

ok i stop try adult stego, but stego less than 50% should die to 4 fg carno

[golden coral]

And it did die?

[keen plover]

Base was 60% iirc. It was nerfed to 40%

[golden coral]

You've just proven that stegos are perfectly killable.

[plush panther]

yeah, we all had 20 to 50% hp

[keen plover]

Iirc?

[slim dragon]

Skill issue ?

[plush panther]

nah that even juv are way to strong

[golden coral]

I have no idea. Not even sure where you got that from honestly :p

[cyan root]

So its perfectly killable with room for error as well then.

[keen plover]

It was a patch note for a build

[thin dragon]

[keen plover]

I think update 5 release

[golden coral]

No they're not. They have no other discourse than to fight, so what else to do?

[plush panther]

yeah, we just hitted him 10-15 times

with ram and head dmg

this is not ok

[distant torrent]

“I am the fastest land animal in-game. Therefore, I wish to be able to easily kill something that’s not even on my diet that weighs more than me and is drastically slower with no possible chances of escape”

[golden coral]

I guess maybe if we had baby biomes, then sure, but then you wouldn't hunt baby stegos as adult carno (not that a baby stego can do anything anyway, it will inevitably die if found by a single adult carno)

[slim dragon]

This kind of take only makes me stronger

[golden coral]

You rammed something you can't knock down/stun? Not a good idea.

[plush panther]

i am the biggest carni land on the game, i would like to kill with ease juv herbi when im pack with 4 fg carni !

[bright oasis]

Legacy utah main mindset lol

[golden coral]

But it's not a juvie, and even if it was, it's a big as can be juvie then.

You can't just go "juvie", since well, that tells us little about the size of the target.

[keen plover]

I can confirm it’s 40%. @golden coral

[plush panther]

ah, i was about to say 50-60%

[plush panther]

that even more outrageous

[keen plover]

Don’t think we’re on the same page 🤔

[plush panther]

it is

[keen plover]

Base of the tail takes 40% of the damage

Tip of the tail takes 10%

[slim dragon]

How does a pitiful and weak herbi dare stand a chance against the strong and powerful carnivore

[plush panther]

ah

[thin dragon]

[plush panther]

yeah, 4 fg carni, should DESTROY juv herbi

that mean that if we were only 2 of 3, we couldnt even take him down

[slim dragon]

Small game hunters hunting something bigger than themselves

[plush panther]

im ok with stego being invincible at 75% +

[slim dragon]

Which are not meant to make packs of 4+ either btw

[cyan root]

Clearly youre not though

[plush panther]

i am now

but not 40-50% stego

[cyan root]

It wasnt invincible since you guys literally killed it

With no losses

[keen plover]

It was larger than you. You said if you couldn’t stun it, which means it’s over 2.7t

[plush panther]

yeah with 4 fg carni

[keen plover]

You killed it

[plush panther]

close

[golden coral]

Alright, good to know.

[slim dragon]

and none of you died

[plush panther]

because we were 4

[keen plover]

Did you want it to be a sweep?

[plush panther]

and fg

[slim dragon]

so it's balanced

[golden coral]

They do, but it does depend on the juvie herbi or carni in question. You need to have that into account.

[thin dragon]

I am mad that me and my friends took damage while fighting something that isn't on our diet 😡

[slim dragon]

When 4 small game hunters pack up to take on a prey bigger than any of them, they can kill it but it's not easy. It makes sense.

[plush panther]

nah but u guys are like : There is nothing meant to chase stego, so its ok if they oneshot everyone and tank 10x more GNNN

[cyan root]

None of you guys were “one shot”

[golden coral]

Also a 3T stego is not a juvie I don't think. Or if it is, it's still way larger than an adult teno. Not exactly a "baby" to kill.

[plush panther]

cuz he was juv

[slim dragon]

None of us said stego should become tankier than it is right now

[golden coral]

There isn't anything meant to hunt it, that is an issue. But it's still more huntable than deino, which makes stego fine.

[keen plover]

Almost 2x their size. No wonder if deals insane amounts of damage to them

[golden coral]

Also I don't think anyone argued for stego buffs right now, that mostly comes up when we talk about rex and trike in the future.

[plush panther]

so stego fine cuz deino is not ?

[plush panther]

rex that will be added in 2 years, and not on offi KEKW

dw, stego wont able to die for the next 2 years, and only on unoffi !

[golden coral]

Yes, stego is fine because deino is the worse offender. Or not really, it's more so that if deino is fine, so is stego. When deino, who needs nerfs and balance far more, have gotten it, then we can talk about stego. But for some reason people only complain about stego while deino is fine, or should have even more power (because god forbid it has one, entirely avoidable, not ideal matchup it can't just oneshot).

[golden coral]

Well, we don't know how long it'll take. We do know trike and rex will be even more powerful than stego and deino so you know, have fun with that :p

[slim dragon]

I can't wait to see people complain when rex doesn't oneshot stego

[distant torrent]

omni can hunt and kill a stego, its just painfully hard and in favor of the stego because the steg can use the environment like mud pits, steep hills, rocks, and trees. not to mention tail clipping can currently suck a utah into its spikes

[slim dragon]

That's kinda what happens when you decide to go hunt something 12x your size

[golden coral]

But if you look at feedback, the issues tend to be "deino can't hunt stego, deino needs more power" and "nothing can hunt stego, nerf stego". You don't see "nothing can hunt deino, nerf deino", or "deino can kill stego, it shouldnt because punch down predator, nerf deino".

[plush panther]

oh yeah, if utah are 4-5, and the stego can't him one time them, and the stego must be alone btw

[plush panther]

because u cant die to deino kekw

[slim dragon]

5 omnis killing a lone stego is still a formidable punch-up potential

[plush panther]

happen 1 time every year

and if utah make 1 mistake, ONESHOT

[golden coral]

What? Deino is far more likely to get kills than stegos are? Not that it was my point anyway.

[golden coral]

It really is. Poor trike and rex xD

[plush panther]

i mean that there is 20 safe spot, with glitch water

[slim dragon]

Well obviously, are you arguing against stego oneshotting omni ?

Are you saying it's tailjab should deal less than 450 damage ?

[plush panther]

dont drink on unsafe spot or deino spot xD

[golden coral]

Omnis killing one of the three animals that shouldn't be huntable by omnis as easy as they do does not bode well for the rest. But that's more on stego bad design, omnis lack of need to aim pounces, and similar issues.

[plush panther]

no, just saying utah cannot make 1 mistake

[golden coral]

That... is entirely irrelevant to my point as well.

[slim dragon]

It's fine
It's hunting something 12x its size
Ofc it can't make a mistake

[golden coral]

Considering how hard it is to make a mistake...

[slim dragon]

Although it theoretically can, since the pack can still win even if one of the omnis die

[plush panther]

well, i started playing on land 1 week ago, cuz deino were boring asf, literaly unfun, i maybe drink more than 200 +, i died 1 time to deino

[golden coral]

That... is still not what my point was.

[plush panther]

not that hard, since tail hitbox is not perfect, like utah right click

i mean, yes stego are meant to be strong

they are big

[golden coral]

Should be more interesting to see what people think when rex and trike are out, even more "invincible" than stego and deino possibly.

[plush panther]

etc.. but on a game where there is nothing that can fight them, that become unfair, if we had something that can match him, ( whitou being big )

[slim dragon]

Well 5 omnis can
1 deino can
Another stego can
Apparently 4 carnos can aswell when they're not fullgrown

[plush panther]

stego in a game with more dinos, that ok, stego in a game where no one can match them is not ok, that boring

[plush panther]

5 omni without mistake, and if the stego is alone for 5-10m
for deino, yes if the stego got 10iq, and dont run away, they can, but deino cant follow on land, another stego that canni, issue everywhere, and 99% stego are uwu friendly, not like carno or deino

and carno can only if they are 4 fg, and the stego is alone and midde size

[golden coral]

Two deinos absolutely can. Quite easily.

[slim dragon]

I don't know where you got that 99% of stegos are friendly...

[golden coral]

To be fair, you could have probably done that in a duo.

[slim dragon]

Every stego I've met save for one who didn't care about anything was consistently trying to kill everything in its path

[plush panther]

well i didnt saw 1 time stego doing that, i heard complain about canni everywhere, but never on stego

[slim dragon]

What dinos do you play as ?

[plush panther]

if we were 10x better than the stego

[golden coral]

Also the fact that it only takes omnis 5 min, with just about a half pack, to kill a stego is... not good, at all xD Poor trike and rex, they'll just melt :p

[golden coral]

No, just a basic player.

[slim dragon]

With how busted carno's charge currently is, I doubt that
You could kill it without ever getting in thagomizer range

[plush panther]

i use to play deino, 3 fg on 3 server, than i was bored since u do nothing, than started raptor and carno, and died to canni or me trying to fight stego that oneshot me, than i tryed stego and i had the most BORING day ever

stego are boring, broken, and unfun for the game

F stego

[slim dragon]

You could try playing ptera to get a good view of what players do in their free time

You do see a lot of things happening

[plush panther]

ptera is for me viewer mode, like its not even playing

its like being an admin that just look the map

with fly cheat code xD

[slim dragon]

Yet you play deino

[distant torrent]

if you’re pretty good at ptera you could peck carno heads and make them freak out when you actually start doing considerable amounts of damage

[plush panther]

nah i stopped, same issue, boring asf, and canni everywhere

and when ur adult, u do 10m and ur out of stam

u legit can't move as adult, just ZZZ gameplay meant to be annoying and oneshot ppl without skillz

bad design dino, and i main them so

[slim dragon]

So you're only playing the Isle to go and fight things
No wonder you think stego is OP

[plush panther]

well, sorry but afk in bush for growth is not fun

[golden coral]

So... basically, you don't like any playable? :p

[plush panther]

was is fun is trying to hunt, or survive

[plush panther]

nah, only deino/stego/ptera

[thin dragon]

Well yeah, when you try and take a boat and turn it into a lawnmower it's gonna run out of gas pretty fast

[plush panther]

the rest is fine, since every1 can kill every1

[slim dragon]

Well you could try surviving as a dryo or hypsi
I promise it won't be boring

[golden coral]

So play carno or dryo or hypsi or omni and just ignore the deinos, stegos and pteras.

[plush panther]

yeah i do that now

[golden coral]

Or better, play teno, that's a good playable.

[plush panther]

but when i see baby or juv stego

and i didnt saw any dino last 30m

i would like to be able to fight them, at least chance in 1v1

[golden coral]

That's not ideal balance btw. It's not really meant to be "!everything can kill everything" and 1v1s like that.

If you're looking for combat, then maybe another of the dinosaur games would suit better. Because it's not really meant to be the whole "I can kill everything 1v1" here.

And if you're in it for the fighting, rather than to just stay alive, then well, again, maybe not the ideal game for that.

[cyan root]

PoT has a more pvp focused gameplay loop, maybe he’d like that

[plush panther]

well this game cool good mecha

[golden coral]

Then I guess you have to make a choice on what you value the most then.

[plush panther]

diet system cool, fight are awesone ( without stego )

did i said already that i hate stego ?

[golden coral]

I don't think you're meant to be able to 1v1 a carno for example as pachy, or omni. Currently pachy can but hopefully that gets fixed. Omni shouldn't really be able to unless the carno is just not aware. So if you're looking for fights, this might not be the game for you.

Well just ignore stegos then, same as with deinos.

Treat them the same and call it a day. You can't 1v1 a deino as anything else but stego and deino either so there's no difference.

[plush panther]

and yeah

survive game u said, than why u dont need to survive with stego since u cant die ?

[slim dragon]

I don't see how you find stego more annoying that something that is functionnally the same but invisible and with less possibilites of counterplay

[plush panther]

.

[slim dragon]

Stop saying stego can't die, even you admitted it can die, even if it's rare
But being hard to kill is the point of an apex

[golden coral]

You do. As you proved earlier, stegos can and do die. Even adults. And you could say the same for ptera, or deino. Or even carno (speed, just avoid things), or omni for that matter.

[plush panther]

yeah when they are not adult

[slim dragon]

Even adult stegos can die

[golden coral]

If you play smart, most things are kind of "immortal" honestly.

[plush panther]

ofc da man met 4 biggest carni fg

[golden coral]

Even dryos currently can probably live quite long if they are very very skittish.

[plush panther]

and he is alone and small

[slim dragon]

To a pack of raptors, a deino or another stego

[golden coral]

That is a very good question.

[distant torrent]

if you wish to kill stegos easily, grow a steg and canni other stegos with friends

[plush panther]

because u cant try to fight them

u just safe drink, and u stop thinking about them

[slim dragon]

And you can try to fight deinos with something other than deino ?

[golden coral]

That too, just like with deino. I don't understand why "deino kills deino" is a fine argument, but saying "yes, stegos can also kill stegos", somehow doesnt work?

[slim dragon]

So stegos are more boring and annoying than deinos because you can but are not forced to, interact with them ?

[plush panther]

because deino kill 10x more deino than stego kill stego

[slim dragon]

Whereas the solution to deinos is to never meet one ?

[plush panther]

.

I SAID IT

BOTH ARE TERRIBLE

[golden coral]

So? Doesn't change that you have the same situation and argument. If you want more stego on stego killings, go be stego and start killing. Not like deinos always kill each other either, I've seen lots of "cuddle puddles" with far too many adult deinos in one spot.

[slim dragon]

But why do you choose to complain exclusively about stego then

[plush panther]

but yes, i grow my stego only to kill them later on

[slim dragon]

If stego was to be removed, then deino would need to go as well, what do you think of that ?

[plush panther]

because i cant try on deino, and i can avoid them

[golden coral]

Carno isn't that big of a predator really. It's on the smaller end of "mid". And you don't know if you need that many or not, you just happened to need it, but doesn't mean others do. xD

[plush panther]

better

[slim dragon]

But somehow you can't avoid stegos ?

[golden coral]

You can't avoid stegos?

[plush panther]

tbh, make deino less weight, so they cant oneshot everyone, make stego less dmg and more hp idk

[golden coral]

Yes, go be a stego "cannibal", problem solved!

[plush panther]

AND BAM, MORE FUN

for everyone, stego will need to fight more, so more fun

[golden coral]

Sure, we can nerf deino down to 4T, it would change nothing in how effective the thing is at killing, and then nerf stego down to 4.5T or so as well, adjust their damage and growth times down to maybe 3 or so hours, and it might work out. But I doubt they'll do that, because they don't like to balance for current roster as much as balance for what they intend in the future, more or less.

[distant torrent]

you’ll get a lot of action as a canni steg. canni hunters will love giving you attention

[plush panther]

ah yes, canni hunter, the peace and love anti fun

GUYS, its wrong to kill our own specie, we need to AFK in grass without anything killing us

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

w/e im to l9 rn, gotta go

byebye, u guys got nice argu, but F stego

[golden coral]

I guess there's just no pleasing some people xD

[cyan root]

Lmao that was a wild ride

[thin dragon]

Funny how half way through that discussion, name went from Nerf Stego to Remove Stego

[hollow canyon]

what the... how long has this been going for?

[cyan root]

Too long my friend

[thin mantle]

Dear god what did I just read…

[dusky surge]

I went to bed and this man continued the argument for literal hours after

[bright oasis]

[sharp delta]

Thoughts on my suggestion?

Had to add one last thing because I forgor

[thin mantle]

Yes actually!
So for one, deino and stego have a pitched matchup right now, a solo deino can kill a stego unless the stego tries to escape, conversely a solo stego can kill a solo deino unless the deino decides to escape, both animals are effectively immune to this matchup as neither have a reason to enter the others respective biome, only that deino has more authority on whether this matchup occurs at all because stego inevitably needs to come to the water to drink...that on top of stego being the only thing preventing deinos being on land like they were in U3 is the reason why stego has, and continues to have a slight edge in raw combat power against them...
Stego is also the only thing in the game outside of cannibalism that can kill or threaten deino at all as well...deino having a singular matchup where it both doesn't oneshot the opponent or have a combative edge is fine by me.

So that's why I think the matchup being changed to further support deinos is entirely unnecessary, however there is something we're missing...

Deino doesn't deal fractures nor should it with any of the attacks it currently has...

It being able to deal fracture damage not only renders lunge redundant, but it'd render it so mindbogglingly strong that nothing could possible stand a shot of fighting it or escaping it even worse than it is now

[sharp delta]

Oh wait

I thought they did

[thin mantle]

xD

Some players think they do because...gator

[sharp delta]

Oh well

I just hope something atleast something will have a chance against stego

[thin mantle]

Deino and omni do

Stego isn't really a problem balance wise in the roster rn

[sharp delta]

Oh well thanks for the feedback

[thin mantle]

👍

[sharp delta]

Deleted it because the info I was provided makes it too obsolete

Still think the stegos should stop camping the water

Hopefully that could be fixed when more aquatics come out

[thin mantle]

Perhaps but most likely not

Whats your issue with water camping?

[sharp delta]

Idk

Just feels like it ruins the essence of the isle

Making it unfun for people to enjoy their life without looking out at the water bank to see good ol mr stego barge in and shatter everything

It’s also kinda of a move on the stegos behalf

[thin mantle]

That seems like the exact essence of the isle actually

A creature going out of it's way to kill it's predators while it dictates the terms of the engagement instead of getting ambushed later

It's also impossible for a stego to camp water from either a deino or otherwise because...well if you're a deino swim left or right, or just down

Any direction really works and you've avoided them

And for the terrestrials, theres a lot of water

Not even sure how you can effectively camp water as a resource from others

Like....this isn't really a game where politeness is supposed to be expected :p

[twilit juniper]

God I love this post @dusky surge, #balance-feedback message.
I’m not sure why so many people disagreed 🥲
Would love to see how you’d or others tackle the other just press RMB attack moves. Sure it makes the game more complicated to learn but it also increases the skill ceiling, which is absolutely loved here by I’d assume most.

[dusky surge]

i think i made it too complicated for them, but tbh, i tried to keep it still somewhat simple

[twilit juniper]

I feel like complicated is good even if what was said was supposed to be simple, People want they’re skill, they keep semi screaming about how some Dino’s don’t have enough skill and outright kill each other.. wether it’s a skill issue or a game skill issue, doesn’t matter.

But I suppose 18 downvotes isn’t nearly any sort of majority. Idk why I keep thinking that a up or down vote means if it’s a good or bad post.

[rigid island]

The whole 3 stages seems very annoying to play with..

[fallow blaze]

it's just too much
it's a good idea, but the carno doesn't need it.

[vagrant coyote]

@plush panther aww, did someone's overpowered full-grown carno get countered? 🥺

@dusky surge, literal perfection on the carno rework, the only change I would make is make it so charge stance can't be activated until 2 seconds after reaching full sprint speed, so that we're not right back where we were with spam

[plush panther]

wdym

[vagrant coyote]

That's what happened, isn't it?

You actually had something challenge you as a carno?

[plush panther]

Nah, im the one who challenge stego

And i didnt like the facts that a 50% stego can 1v4 fg carno

or oneshot a fg carno in the head with 1 swing

[vagrant coyote]

Omg, it's like an omni-carno matchup..

And you don't get one shot, you get 3 shot if not 4

Stop giving it your head

[plush panther]

fg stego does oneshot in the head, and 2 shot in body

[vagrant coyote]

I've hit a sub adult carno 6-7 times in the body to kill it as a full adult stego, get over yourself

[plush panther]

around 70-80% in the body in facts

[plush panther]

then ur so bad that u manage to reduce dmg as a stego LMAO

not my problem ;)

[vagrant coyote]

It literally is, your the one complaining because your broken dino has a counter

[stark knoll]

Must've been tail or leg hits, then. On a full body shot it takes 2 hits if both are adults

1 to the head

[plush panther]

ty

[vagrant coyote]

Yea, prob

[plush panther]

not prob, that a facts ^^

hit in the legs, kind of hard on a juv carno

[vagrant coyote]

I mean, idk why your talking, I still solod 3 sub ads

[plush panther]

WOW, as a stego ??!?!?!??

damn too much skillz i can't take it man

[vagrant coyote]

Ikr

[plush panther]

not like they had to hit you 30 in the head

[bright oasis]

Hes still going off about stego dang

[plush panther]

forever

[vagrant coyote]

Yep

[bright oasis]

You really hate stego huh

[plush panther]

not that much anymore, i stopped challenge them

but that man came from nowhere kek

[vagrant coyote]

He hates getting good or literally just turning around and walking the other direction lmao

[plush panther]

yeah i don't even wan't to argu with someone like you

[vagrant coyote]

Mhm?

[plush panther]

got better to do byebye

[vagrant coyote]

Alr, bye bye

[bright oasis]

[thin dragon]

[vagrant coyote]

Carno mains, am I right

[plush panther]

kind of guy who like eating grass for 6hrs straight rofl

[vagrant coyote]

Na na na, don't come back

[plush panther]

utah

[vagrant coyote]

You said bye, your done

[plush panther]

[vagrant coyote]

I mean, Utahs twice as fun as literally having an instant win button on your mouse, but-

[plush panther]

huh?

[vagrant coyote]

What, did I max out your brain?

You alright? Your not gonna catch fire are you?

You must be thinking real hard

[plush panther]

u realy like to send pike don't u aha ?

[vagrant coyote]

Na, I'm just curious as to why your still here arguing?

[plush panther]

l9 kid

[vagrant coyote]

I thought you were done?

[plush panther]

did i ? I just said u were the kind of guy who eat grass

i didnt argu about carno or stego did i ?

just you who try to make me mad for some reason

i guess that prob ur ego :/

[vagrant coyote]

Na, I just think it's funny that someone who mains the most overpowered thing in a game is complaining that something can contest it

[plush panther]

it's ok i got ego aswell, everyone does

[plush panther]

utah ?

[vagrant coyote]

D-

Did you just call Utah overpowered?

[plush panther]

ofc not, u do right now

i said that i as utah main

[plush panther]

.

Can u read ?

💀

[vagrant coyote]

Yea?

[plush panther]

💀

[vagrant coyote]

I mean, that's kinda a dumb question, I'm talking to you through texts

💀

[plush panther]

I doubt a bit, since u didn't read everything

💀

[vagrant coyote]

I'm sorry, when were we arguing that stego is op against utah?

Point it out

[plush panther]

Carno, but if u read well !
I said that i main utah when u ask if Carno main

[vagrant coyote]

That's not a correction, that's a single word

But alright

[plush panther]

and a response

mb if u can't figure that out :c