balance-feedback-discussion

[keen plover]

Neither have I

Because again. The map

[thin mantle]

Parasaurolomon! Use Sonic Blast!!!

[keen plover]

Now fight a decent Omni pack of 8 in the open

I promise you’ll die

[thin mantle]

Well and again, stego isn’t an animal that omnis SHOULD be taking down anyway

[dusky surge]

(the map is what also caused carno to be considered an ambush predator so I can never forgive it)

[thin mantle]

Or just 4

[thin dragon]

I can't wait to see/have this exact same conversation when a large terrestrial predator is introduced and people want to buff stego

[dusky surge]

never going to happen

[keen plover]

Yeah

[dusky surge]

spite balancing means they'll just adore the fact stego is fodder

no problem here, stego mains deserve it

[thin mantle]

Allegedly

[keen plover]

^ people barely care for hypsi and dryo who haven’t done a thing when compared to Omni lol.

[thin mantle]

Spite is strong in this community for animals they can’t solo

[keen plover]

Now imagine a creature that has been untouched for years

And is a herbi

[unkempt sierra]

@dusky surge as a stego main myself I don’t think they deserve it

[thin dragon]

[dusky surge]

people would literally rather stego be garbage forever and immediately obliterated by a large terrestrial predator than have it be balanced in its own right

[thin mantle]

Hence the excitement for rex

[dusky surge]

rex is being praised as a stego killer. The few of us who actually fear it might invalidate stego are frequently silenced by those who say either that it's a good thing, or stego deserves it

really lame stuff

[thin mantle]

Same with spino and deino

Like deino at least needs to escape, bare minimum

[keen plover]

I have hope in QA and the ST to make sure that doesn’t happen

[dusky surge]

spino and deino is just really weird

i will never understand that

[keen plover]

If Islecord decided balance…

[unkempt sierra]

@dusky surge after so many hours on steg I can tell you that it’s op

[thin mantle]

Especially when they’re both technically defensive fighters….but deinos combat design is just so bad that it has to be despite it not at all being given the tools for that

[dusky surge]

i love the suggestions like "listen to balance feedback more" or "have balance be decided via a community poll!"

please god no

[thin dragon]

wasn't that just like... U4.5? (might be wrong idr)

[thin mantle]

Your hours mean nothing, nobodies do

The content of a take defines its validity

No offense ofc, but that’s just not how substance works

[keen plover]

Community vote??? 💀💀💀💀

Dear lord

[thin mantle]

Oh god yes

[dusky surge]

i can have 3000 hours and i can still say that a rex and an omni should be an even fight

is it a good suggestion? hell no

is it an accurate depiction of a real argument someone said while also bragging about their extensive hours? yes, absolutely, it was hilarious and tragic

[thin mantle]

Gimme godslayer Omni and ambush Carno

[keen plover]

(4.5 was decent except for pachy, pvp balance)

[unkempt sierra]

Idk man @thin mantle for a Dino survival game I don’t think there should be a moment when you should not feel unstoppable and unkillable

It’s like that right now with stegosaurus @thin mantle

[keen plover]

Carnos were a lot more sustainable back then though. So there was like 80 of them per server

One boar gave you like 30-40% food

[thin mantle]

The top of the food chain will almost always be this way unless more of other animals in its tier gang up on it, which is how deino vs stego works currently anyway

Like that’s basically how Anky should feel even in a completed roster

If you’re attentive you should never die

Stego is barely a wrung below that type of balancing

[dusky surge]

godslayer omni, ambush carno, bleeder teno, walking food stego, galli-lite kickboxing dryo, removed hypsi, apex-bully cera, king of land and sea deino, juvi slaughterer ptera and pachy remains EXACTLY as is

[keen plover]

This has gone in circles. Just so you’re aware, Stego & Deino haven’t changed much combat wise since like 3.75 for a reason

[thin mantle]

Preeeecisely, throw in an aerial pounce for ptera so it can bleed stegos to death and you’ve got the islecord fantasy

[keen plover]

Wait for Gateway for any bit of challenge for Stego. Spiro Stego will remain untouchable to anyone with a brain

[dusky surge]

god i hate spiro

[thin mantle]

I can’t imagine gateway will make it any easier to kill…unless it’s in the middle of gateway plains

But that’s it basically…which again is fine but yknow

[thin dragon]

We need docktor for this
"When in doubt, Blame Spiro"

[dusky surge]

its food will likely be out there, so

[keen plover]

If Stegos diets aren’t in the open plains…

[thin mantle]

True, but I’d imagine going back to a relatively safe area wouldn’t be too difficult

Like again, open plains stego is VERY easy to kill

[keen plover]

I mean a safe spot is pretty far. Enough to get in a lot of pounces as a coordinated pack

Like I went to NE and there’s this other plains area where Stego will struggle if solo

So much so that I’m assuming people will complain about Omni

[thin mantle]

Well yeah like I said, I’d imagine the resources placed there can be found elsewhere

Cuz ideally stego isn’t grouping…basically at all

So I suppose apart of learning the map layout is just avoiding that area

Cuz again as omnis, a stego with no cover or significant terrain advantages are very easy to kill

Especially with how effective facial pounces are

You can’t be hit if done properly

2 omnis minimum but they can take down a stego relatively easy

[dusky surge]

also one thing i find funny, you can literally bait a stego to swing one way so your friend can dismount

regardless of if they're near a hill or not

almost like teamwork is a big part of omni

[thin mantle]

Mhm, and even then you don’t need to if you dismount forward

Despite nobody ever doing this

For some reason

[dusky surge]

omni solo mindset prevails

[thin mantle]

Well that’s the funny part, it reduces the need for teamwork

Because you can dismount without a bait doing this

[keen plover]

Yeah stego relying on trees in hopes to avoid Omni doesn’t really bode well for other creatures that are slower than Omni lol

[dusky surge]

omni mains on their way to get all of their balance ideas from Jurassic World Evolution 2

[thin mantle]

Especially given stegos reach

[keen plover]

I’m interested when Trike & Rex are added

[dusky surge]

oh yea, for sure

trike and rex are super interesting

[thin mantle]

Trike will probably have some sort of Cera esq thick skin intrinsic or something….

Because unless trike is a bayblade it dies

[keen plover]

Omni… Very interesting playable lol

Rex players crying when Omni downs them

Can’t wait

[thin mantle]

Gonna be like fireworks

Not sure how dondis 20 Omni minimum is gonna work…

Cuz that’s supposed to be the required amount…

[keen plover]

I personally like it that way. If you’re not equipped for the open plains, Omni kind of just forces you back into the forest

In a pack

[thin mantle]

I like it to a certain extent….

[keen plover]

Yeah it still is a bit overkill lol dw

[thin mantle]

Cuz it REALLY forces a tremendous amount of the roster into the forests

Like I have no clue what para is supposed to do

[slim dragon]

I think it means omnis aren't supposed to take on rexes at all

[thin mantle]

Well that’s the idea being communicated

[keen plover]

That’s a boring cop out and screams favouritism

[thin mantle]

But I have no idea how that’s going to be implemented unless omnis just don’t damage it

[slim dragon]

Rex gets a nice, quick alt-bite
Which makes it so trying to pounce it is almost guaranteed death
Done, rex is almost impervious to omnis

[thin mantle]

I don’t mind that personally but only because I can imagine that matchup being incredibly painful otherwise

[keen plover]

I hate it because they’ll allow Omni to do it to Stego

[thin mantle]

Same tho

[dawn falcon]

2-3 tons difference and now you must form an alliance with the other allies of power to take down the evil Tyrannosaurus rex

[keen plover]

Yeah lmao

20 omnis to take down a Rex??? 💀

[dawn falcon]

Imagine shant

[keen plover]

Probs find a way to let Omni hunt it

[dawn falcon]

Hurr durr it’s an herbivore at 11 tons so I think 8 Omnis should be enough

[keen plover]

Lmao

[thin mantle]

Oh god

Shant better have steel for skin

Cuz if not….oh dear

[slim dragon]

Honestly I would take that "omnis to kill a rex" with a grain of salt, iirc don said this at the very beginning of evrima, even before stego was in

Back them nobody really knew how bigs vs smalls would go. Now, evrima isn't nearly as much of a numbers game as legacy was. 2 omnis can take down a stego, but not 100%. Same for 5 omnis, or 8 omnis. I've even seen something like 15 omnis lose to one stego once.

[keen plover]

True

[slim dragon]

Also we saw things like 8 adult deinos losing to 1 stego, although 1 deino can beat a stego in a 1v1

[keen plover]

I’ve seen an Omni kill an adult deino

[dusky surge]

thats just tragic

[keen plover]

What happens when you fight without knowing how to alt bite lol

[sand smelt]

#balance-feedback message @keen plover , how much faster do you think deinosuchus hunger bar should go down? It used to be lower and starving was really common, because deinos don't come across food all that often, besides other deinos which they can't really live off an all deino diet. I get what you're saying, but deino should stay where it is. Also making deinos starve faster only encourages players who'd otherwise be content to have to hunt more often.

Also you must realize the growth for a deinosuchus is hardly linear, it spawns at 18% growth at 270-280 kilograms, and at 50% isn't even 2 tonnes which is 25% of it's final weight. Furthermore deinos in shallow water can die to a Utah half their weight because they can't run or fight back once their stamina is gone. Yes, a 35% give or take deino can grab you but it can't kill you, and you can wlays run away.

Also some modern crocodiles can go months without eating, I see it as both fair, and balanced that deinos take far longer to starve. This also supports the gameplay as deinos are fairly dormant, and wait for their food to come to them, not vice versa.

[keen plover]

What I wanted for deino wasn’t for its hunger timer to be less than 90 minutes, rather the amount of food it needs to fill the bar to be higher.

Also a deino roughly in the low 40% is larger enough to grab and drown a Carno, meaning it’s closer to 4T at that size.

The amount of time it takes to grab a Carno is less than the amount of time it took for Carno to get to full adult. Or very close depending on how quickly you get your diets.

What a crocodilian does irl shouldn’t matter in game, seeing as Dinosaurs can also sustain themselves more sufficiently than any mammal. They’d be able to go decently long without food iirc.

Deino takes like 4 hours to grow and 2~ hours to be able to grabs a Carno

[sand smelt]

I haven't played deinos since update 6, but I am fairly certain you reach 4 tonnes at 70%+
Also 1 deino feeding almost 4 deinos is already more than realistic, excluding bones roughly 20% of the body mass each deino is eating over 1.5 tonnes in a sitting
Deino takes 6 hours to grow, you'd know if you've grown one

[keen plover]

It’s closer to 4 hours

[sand smelt]

it's 6, I've timed it with perfect diet, stego is 5 hours, carno is 2.5, ptera is 45 minutes, Utah is an hour, Hypsi 15 minutes, etc etc

[keen plover]

And realism again shouldn’t matter. If it was purely based on that, Carno would fill up on a boar

[sand smelt]

it used to but then it got nerfed to hell

[stark knoll]

Deino and stego are about 4.5hr using the +50% diet

[sand smelt]

were growth times updated?

[stark knoll]

Yes

[keen plover]

They’ve never been 6 though

[sand smelt]

they were

I've grown multiple before

[stark knoll]

They got changed in update 6 and perfect diets were never 6

They used to be a little less than 5, and growth overall got shortened a bit across the board in U6

[sand smelt]

I see

point being Deino is fine where it is, nobody except you has complained about it in balance and it should stay where it is. It can't search for food, since it can only hunt when food comes to water, and even then deinos have poor success rates to other carnivores, and you have to realize if it takes about 1.8 tonnes to fill a deino that means it needs 4 Utahs in one sitting to fill itself completely which is pretty good, that's also a full carno, or 15 dryos, or 40 pteras, or 90 hypsis

if you look at the numbers 1.8 tonnes to fill itself it crazy, especially since finding that much food is very difficult for anything especially a deino

1.8 tonnes per 90 minutes means in 6 hours of gameplay you must consume 7.2 tonnes which is 90% of your bodyweight

[keen plover]

Deino is not fine where it is.

They’re too abundant. The food requirements are clearly not an issue. So it needs to be looked at.

[sand smelt]

deinos are abundant, but how many full grown adults do you see? not many

[keen plover]

A lot. I see a lot

[sand smelt]

1.8 tonnes per 90 minutes is ridiculous

they probably have the largest food consumption per their body weight, but they take longer to starve

[keen plover]

Yeah, but currently… They don’t. High hunger time + high food values

Not hard to see how they’re abundant

I’m not saying you need to eat equal to your mass to be fine. But 1 deino body filling up 4 times is overkill. Should fill you twice

[sand smelt]

largest food consumption per their bodyweight isn't necessarily tied to how abundant food is

[keen plover]

It is a huge factor though. That and the ease of use

[sand smelt]

ease of use? Deinosuchus is only user friendly because it takes long to starve which it should

if you have 20 deino around the entire map, and they have a 25% success rate and they only spot 50% of the dinosaurs that drink and every dinosaur comes to water every 20 minutes they will catch 1 dinosaur every 2 minutes

[keen plover]

Tbf, location based. Some areas yield better results. Places where you can also bully kills

[sand smelt]

if we're using that number the average deino catches prey every 40 minutes, (far more luck than I've ever had)

[sand smelt]

most of that prey will be fairly small

most deinos eat mainly other fish or deinos, if you played as a deino instead of malding about them, you would know

[sand smelt]

These numbers are very generous

[keen plover]

I don’t think I’m the one malding. You literally made a post tagging me with wrong facts and were adamant about it until a QA corrected it. Also good, eat more deinos and more fish. There shouldn’t be as many full adult deinos as there are

[sand smelt]

the only wrong thing was growth time, which I haven't played since the update?

[keen plover]

So how would you know the deino issue 🤔

[sand smelt]

Grown a deino*, I had a deino pre-update

[keen plover]

Pre update deinos have been wiped so it’s irrelevant to now

[sand smelt]

funny, because I had a deino that wasn't wiped

[keen plover]

Yeah…

[sand smelt]

considering you joined the discord 2 weeks ago, I'm assuming you got the game very recently, trying to call a bluff that doesn't exist, and that deinos are not endemic, and the entire reason you are the only person who wished to nerf deinos in the feed was because you kept dying to them and you were salty 🧂 , I am no longer responding the further replies

[keen plover]

Peace 💀

[dense bough]

lmao

[keen plover]

[thin mantle]

I just have to say…. that was hilarious

Actual Islecord Alumni….

||whether that’s a badge of honor or not tho…||

But anyways on the topic of deino…
Deino is a predator that HAS to rarely make kills for there to be any semblance of balance surrounding it…
It’s only limiting factor when engaging anything but stego is luck, if it is capable of engaging it wins, because lunge will lack counterplay until water clarity fixes loads of deinos issues…but even still deino should out of all playables have the largest intervals between successful hunts simply BECAUSE of how skill devoid its matchup is, ideally this wouldn’t even be the case and hunting anything as a deino would actually require some special awareness and genuine stealth to be successful.

[dawn falcon]

Bruh an actual islecord moment

But anyways…

Deino has always had 5 hours as it’s default growth time, however diets have varied that a bit.
Deino overpopulation does exist, watch videos of deinos and you’ll see just how much there are. You’d have to be delusional to deny this, or rarely play around rivers.
The fact it’s so easy to grow is a problem by itself, which is what causes the overpopulation.

reply to the above conversation

[keen plover]

It isn’t

[thin mantle]

same, it’s like a toxic ex you just can’t ignore

[thin mantle]

Mhm, and it’s not just due to diets, deino is functionally immortal outside of cannibalism. It’s one of the main reasons I find stego nerf posts so funny because people struggle to kill them

When deino is just standing their as a steadfast immortal bastion of perpetuity

[teal pecan]

you reach that size at about 55-60%

[teal pecan]

[willow cliff]

You’re kidding right?

[dusky surge]

i wonder why we dont see many full grown deinos

i wonder what could possibly be making all these adult deinos so hard to see

[fresh laurel]

that totally explains why water as a whole is feared ong, so few adult deinos to cause fear

[dusky surge]

people keep saying there's a ton of deinos but i cant see them

where are they then hmm

[fresh laurel]

they're in the trees

(trust)

[dusky surge]

The concept that "I don't see many adult deinos, therefor they aren't that common" is the funniest argument I've ever heard

[fresh laurel]

if he can do it, so can deino

[fresh laurel]

imagine the argument for troodon then

[dusky surge]

idk i just find it funny

like, it's VERY obvious that deino is overpopulated

[fresh laurel]

nah, you cant die to what you cant see

best survival tip

[dusky surge]

@arctic summit the buff to carno's charging turn radius was the best change it ever got, making a legit worthless ability into something that can actually fulfil the niche carno was set out to have

the issue with carno right now is that HORRIBLE charge hitbox that's almost 2x the size of the actual model, and the ability for it to knock down animals over half its size like tenonto and the upcoming cera

i do 100% agree on the hunger drain part though, its ridiculous that this small game hunter cannot properly sustain itself comfortably on its designated prey items

[slim dragon]

@polar vine The first thing you mentioned is latency. Having 2 dinos attack each other at the same time is something incredibly hard to do, if someone attacks 0.1 second before the other, the second one will be stunned before their attack can connect. If you combine that with server latency that can go up to several hundred miliseconds, it's a perfectly normal behaviour, not a hitbox issue.

As for the carno's charge hitbox, it's been acknowledged as a mistake and will most likely be fixed next update

[polar vine]

aight ty

[latent bay]

What even is the problem with carno's hunger drain? If you fill up right before night on food and diets you can last the entire night

[slim dragon]

Imagine starving to death in one night if you skip dinner

[latent bay]

Fair enough

[arctic summit]

Ooooh maybe you are right. But then again its not just the carnos hitbox thats bad, its latency issues and fps. I get hit by stego tail swings, teno tail slams, deino lunge all of them from really from at times

[hasty coyote]

yep, thats just latency with attacks. 90% of the time when I ram a carno as a pachy they slide like 2 meters forward before stopping to the stun, because of lag.

However, carno has been tested and shown to have a very... forgiving... hitbox on charge (target stood still and carno was able to hit it with charge even though it was like 2 feet away from them). Likely due to it turning so bad before it was compensated with a large hitbox.

if they only make the hitbox accurate, I'm sure the move will be 2x more fair.

[tiny thicket]

I don't agree with the small charge turn radius being best balance change for carno even if hitboxes were fixed it would still be op as there is very little time window to escape the arc. In the end carno will kill small tiers just by clipping the tail. My opinion is that carno's ability to wind up its charge in a small distance is the best change but at cost of large turning radius. Previously in update 5 u could end up in an awkward situation where carno is face to face with a pachy but the distance was not enough to wind up the charge and that would mean carno would lose the interaction. It also fits its name as meat eating bull juggernaut that ones get charging is very difficult to stop.

less charge up time means less omnis pouncing from the front which was very common in update 5

[slim dragon]

Old charge was terrible for what carno is supposed to be good at, which is catching small and skittish prey

[tiny thicket]

yes but u can spam charge like engage charge, disengage, turn then charge again.

[slim dragon]

But the fact the "charge" is something that allows you to turn faster is weird
If anything I would change it to a drifting attack that you have to time right to catch enemies trying to dodge you

[slim dragon]

Yes and that is another issue

The fact charge is instant is a problem indeed

[tiny thicket]

as an omni vs carno the balance would be like this be really close to carno and u may get hit by alt attack be a little far and carno has enough time to place u in its crosshairs and initiate charge and also never run away in straight line or run out of stam before carno. u should wear the bull down first so it is an endurance rodeo battle.

[slim dragon]

Uh I think Omni should just run to cover, never to be seen again against a carno

[tiny thicket]

one omni should be terrified but not a pack.

[slim dragon]

Shouldn't be trying its luck against something more than 3x its size, especially when it is in the ideal prey range for that animal

[slim dragon]

In your message it looked like you were talking about 1 omni vs 1 carno. Imo 3 omnis at the very least should stand a chance against a carno, starting at 4-5 omnis it starts being omni-favoured

[tiny thicket]

what i am saying is if u get caught in a 1v1 situation as omni for some dumb reason u should have atleast some chance of surviving the encounter. As for pack, a second carno is enough to watch ur back.

[slim dragon]

Yes, your chance of surviving is to run away and hide

[tiny thicket]

thats the thing u cant outrun a carno and the jungles arent dense enough to hide an omni.

[slim dragon]

They are, I managed to hide from a pack of omnis as a teno
Who cannot even crouch

[tiny thicket]

lets be real no omni is going to run 10 m away and hide in a bush just because being stationary covers u and u broke line of sight, not to mention the blood trail and the fact that omni is more than visible running like a madlad thru the forest.

[slim dragon]

I didn't say running 10meters away was enough
But hiding from carnos is what omnis have been doing since update 2, except when they were so busted they could kill them easily

[tiny thicket]

omni can't hide in jungle unless it is stationary so all carno needs to do is point towards the latest line of sight which is very easy so no juking which means only run in a straight line away from carno which defeats the whole purpose of running away and hiding from a chase.

I lost a pachy to 2 carnos at night in jungle just because I couldnt get out of the endless chase loop.

[slim dragon]

You're denying facts rn

If people can hide in jungles as tenos, you better believe omnis can as well

[tiny thicket]

teno hiding from pack of omnis means various reasons the omnis werent good at tracking in jungle cuz they are only good at spotting in open or second that the footsteps are much quieter which makes it harder to navigate the forest at a lower camera height .Try towering over the bushes u can see all the empty spots.

[dusky surge]

@pure heath Carno is not at all designed to take on stegos, and even 3-4 should struggle against one, it's a small-game hunter vs a 6 ton mega herbivore. Deino is just scuffed atm and needs a complete rebalance tho, that I can agree on

In a similar vein, 5-7 omnis will REALLY struggle against deino, land or not

Deino has a nuts bleed resist that makes omni's primary killing power extremely ineffective against it

Not to mention the fact it has a bite that can instantly kill omnis

[pure heath]

I agree that utahs and carnos shouldnt really hunt deinos. But I feel like without an apex theres not much to hunt stegos. Thats why deino now is so much on land. I do really get your point tho

I jsut feel like we want to avoid the apex - mid gap we had in legacy

[dusky surge]

Also, going to add, not only has carno never been an ambush predator, it absolutely should not start being geared towards that

It's a pursuit predator, everything about it is horrible for ambushing

[pure heath]

that I dont agree with. I see carno as, hide in bush, run out and ram teno, bite its head and get your meal. While utah run them down bleeding them out

[dusky surge]

It lives in open plains, its charge requires a running start to get active

[dusky surge]

That's a result of Spiro's horrid map layout

[pure heath]

carno wants to hit unsuspecting targets no?

[dusky surge]

Gateway's plains are a lot clearer and more open

[dusky surge]

Before U6, the only way the charge could even hit was basically hoping the guy you are aiming for is AFK

Not even an ambush move, just a idiot test

The added turn radius to carno's charge gave it much needed viability, but it needs to be nerfed and fixed in other areas (hitbox for one) before it can become more engaging

[pure heath]

I used to play carno quite a bit back then. I feel like being able to kill 1 or 2 unsuspecting tenos alone against a herd was quite good. in a one on one fight that would be impossible

I see your points but I don't agree. Nice to see another angle tho ^^

[hollow canyon]

No, it doesn't, it wants to catch things smaller than itself out in the open where it can fully utilise its high speed and charge to just run them down and maul them.

It's neither designed nor is meant to be an ambush hunter

A/ its ability requires distance to actually work, you can't use the charge at point blank, most ambush hunters want to get as close as possible to their target to then one hit K.O them, Carno does nothing like that

[thin mantle]

Just like every other predator, it CAN use ambush, but it's very poorly oriented towards it

[hollow canyon]

B/ its crouch is absolutely pathetically slow

C/ it's meant to hunt in the open plains, it's just Spiro's weird design that caused us to have these bizarre bushes all over the place in which you can hide, that's not really what a plain is meant to look like

[dusky surge]

Omni can ambush a dryo to get a quick pin and kill. Doesn’t make it particularly good at ambushing tho

[hollow canyon]

D/ it's loud, tall and visible from a mile away in most circumstances. It should never be able to hide well and it should want to avoid any place that could hide a dinosaur of similar size to it.

[hollow canyon]

Omni is much better at ambushing than Carno incidentally

[dusky surge]

True, true

[hollow canyon]

the only difference is

Omni doesn't have that many things it can ambush

[hasty coyote]

so you decided to stare into the abyss of Balance Feedback again?

[thin mantle]

Ironically still far better than carno

[hollow canyon]

yes I did

[dusky surge]

Carno can be argued to be the roster’s worst current ambusher

[thin mantle]

It just is

Unless you count stego

[hollow canyon]

also - I remember back in the good ol' days I used to ambush Carnos with my Tenonto

[dusky surge]

I think maybe cera might take its spot as “the worst carnivore at ambushing”

[hollow canyon]

that animal has seen some real action

[thin mantle]

Oh well probably, I was thinking current

[hollow canyon]

these pug-faced bastards decided to sit by my swamp

goddamn Carn just came out and thought it owned the place

[hasty coyote]

ptera holds that title

[dusky surge]

Because slow speed, low damage output per bite, no stun/kill confirm mechanic.

[hollow canyon]

but you don't show those dumb faces around MY SWAMP, so I took a good look at those three bastards

[dusky surge]

Ptera is probably better tbh, but only against like pathetically small animals

[hollow canyon]

they were sitting right by my reeds

so close to me

then I couldn't stop myself, just pounced on them and Booyakasha! Deleted the young adult with some neat tailslams to its face while hurting one of the adults badly in the process

poor sods didn't know there's a fast get up in the game

and by the time they realised what was happening I was back in the swamp

[dusky surge]

Swamp teno is fun

[hollow canyon]

good ol' times

[dusky surge]

But yea carno stupid ass ambusher

[hollow canyon]

then I just munched the grass on the body of the dead Carno

...I always wished Tenonto was an omnivore so that I could devour the bodies of my prey

[dusky surge]

The concept needs to die. Both Spiro and it’s completely garbage pre-U6 charge very much lended themselves to the perception of ambush hunter

[hollow canyon]

yea, hopefully it changes in the future

[dusky surge]

Because you couldn’t hit anything with the charge unless it was an “ambush”

[hollow canyon]

or the person in question got a stroke/dc during the fight

[hasty coyote]

I had one moment when old charge was actually useful in combat. I used it to hit a teno while running in and out of their NV range. Worked pretty well, but thats because they panicked and didnt know how to parry or dodge.

[hollow canyon]

...which seemingly happened more often than it should

[dusky surge]

If your opponent died irl it was very promising for your ability to kill them with a charge

[hollow canyon]

I don't think I will ever understand the thought process behind the actions of the Utahs that just looked at me slowly strolling towards them, then running at them and there they are - just standing in place looking at me... perhaps they were looking for an emote to wave at my Carno or something? I guess I will never know because they just facetanked my charge despite seeing me from a mile away

[hollow canyon]

yes, yes indeed

[dusky surge]

I really like it when you can tell the people who make balance feedback are the same kind of people who stare at a carno approaching at Mach speed and not moving as if they can attack you out of it

It’s weird how people call deer dumb for freezing in the headlights of a fast moving car, then when they’re put in the same position in an animal survival game, they do the exact same

It’s clearly a more primal instinct shared among all creatures

[hollow canyon]

You'd think that but after all people that do that are indeed a minority

so if others don't have such reaction then I'm honestly not sure what's going on exactly

[dusky surge]

I feel like the reason carno and stego are considered so strong and are so hared is for the longest time, they have been idiot tests

Carno was literally “can you move out of the way of this very linear charge” and stego was “can you resist the primal urge to run at every single herbivore you see regardless of if you are outmatched”

The answer is a resounding no

I can almost guarantee cera itself will end up being massively controversial because it can’t just run at things and hope to win, and it’ll inevitably have a more in-depth matchup with carno than “cera wins”

[hollow canyon]

yes, we might just be in for some "skill issue" time

[stark knoll]

@rare bolt Bleed currently stacks

[rare bolt]

no it doesnt

lets see the math

[stark knoll]

What?

Applying multiple bleeding attacks makes you bleed faster

I'm not sure what math you want to see when bleed values have been hidden since their addition in update 2

[rare bolt]

okay ill run a test with the timer and apply multiple bleeds and see if it bleeds faster pretty sure it doesnt tho

[stark knoll]

But bleeding attacks have always stacked/added with each other, there's no cap to how fast you can bleed

[tall bronze]

Really?

[rare bolt]

from what I have seen it extends the timer not make the bleed happen faster

[tall bronze]

No cap sounds funny

[dusky surge]

Bleed stacks exist

[stark knoll]

It does both

[dusky surge]

Nope, it does both

Bleed scales to ludicrous levels after a certain amount of pounced

If you keep applying and don’t let it heal

[rare bolt]

only effect i have seen is if stamina or health is lower

[stark knoll]

When a new bleed-causing attack happens, the bleeding length gets reset because of the new attack. The bleed damage stacks

[rare bolt]

no the timer stacks

you just proved the point

[stark knoll]

Huh?

[dusky surge]

Stamina and health being lower effects bleed duration, same as low hunger and thirst. Movement effects bleed rate. The faster you move, the faster you bleed

[tall bronze]

Do we know if ANY bleed damage completely resets high bleeding?

Like for instance; if an adult raptor pounced a Teno several times and it was severely bleeding, then wallowed, then a Juvie raptor bit it once, would that reset the bleed back to severe again?

Hope I worded that right

[stark knoll]

I'm not sure if I explained myself well enough

[rare bolt]

if you bleed a target it keeps the same bleed the timer starts again, I am talking the timer restarts again but if its another raptor the amount of bleed you get per tick goes up but only if its a new raptor

[stark knoll]

Or I'm misremembering the timer part, but the rate of blood loss definitely keeps adding more attacks onto itself

[rare bolt]

not the timer starts again

right now if you pounce again it keeps the same bleed the timer for how long it heals resets

@tall bronze yes baby can continue the bleed timer and the same bleed applied before continues

[stark knoll]

It doesn't keep the same bleed tho, it adds on top of any current bleeding damage unless the previous bleeding wore off

[rare bolt]

@tall bronze so if a adult starts it, and a baby pounces it continues the adults bleed amount

from my tests it does not @stark knoll but I will do a test again to make sure it does the same bleed rate as if one pounced it, it just continues

[stark knoll]

How are you testing that?

[rare bolt]

private servers and doing tests on different dino and bleeding them with raptor pounces

compare it against a timer each time

[stark knoll]

Yes I know, but how do you go about calculating it? Are you using full pounces? Pouncing simultaneously? Are you waiting for the bleeding to heal in between?

[dusky surge]

If you’re standing still, bleed will be slow regardless

Bleed damage scales with the movement of the bleeding victim

[rare bolt]

^ that

[dusky surge]

Bleed damage also does stack, infinitely

[rare bolt]

thats what effects damage

[dusky surge]

Depending on how much you can do before the bleed heals

[dusky surge]

And damage also stacks with more bites and pounces

[tall bronze]

Is there a difference between resting and standing still with healing bleed or is it the same? I'd assume resting is better but just curious

[rare bolt]

sitting is slightly better then standing

[stark knoll]

I think resting is slower bleed than just standing

[rare bolt]

well standing completely still

[hollow canyon]

how in the world you arrived at that conclusion I wonder

[dawn falcon]

It is

[hollow canyon]

it is

[tall bronze]

Mkay just making sure. Thank you 😊

[hollow canyon]

Just an absolutely bizarre feedback all around ngl

[dusky surge]

@vale tangle carnos hitbox is getting a confirmed fix in U6.5, omni's "turn nerf" is a bug and was not intentional, pachy has simply always been this strong, and with omnis no longer being as overpowered as them, they're free to play god

[vale tangle]

I love that description

[dusky surge]

yea i cant possibly disagree with the take that pachy is OP

if not the most OP animal in the entire game atm

i do not like U6 pachy

it's somehow U5.5 omni but worse and more obnoxious

[slim dragon]

Don't you hate it when someone begins a suggestion that isn't that bad, and suddendly they end it by saying "oh and also there's a random chance that you spawn with an ugly white or black skin".

[dusky surge]

sometimes you gotta stop the feedback post while you're ahead

[pure heath]

I get your point but wont the target just dodge if it sees it coming? after enough dodges its stamina is gonna be low. Carnos stamina the way it is now makes it so they cant run things down the way omni does. If they chase a dryo for example, long enough trying to charge over and over but getting dodged. Theyll have to sit down for stamina and the dryo can jsut run away. Teno can just cancel the charge with tail hit, not sure but I think pachy can aswell with the fracture hit. So the charge works so much better if the target isnt ready for it

and I think maybe ambush hunter is wrong use of words, my bad. I mean more like a out of nowhere hit and runner. a carno wouldn't wanna 3 call a teno before attacking, that'd be stupid

sorry for the bible

[dusky surge]

its not that either tho, its a pursuit animal. The high speed compensates for the low stamina, since it can consistently run up and get into attack range of their prey and repeat

[pure heath]

wouldnt it only be able to kill utahs and smaller then?

[dusky surge]

thats not really a problem

its a small game hunter (also it should be killing dilos and smaller)

[pure heath]

I get that realistically it might have but I feel gameplay wise people would find it very boring

[dusky surge]

i find it boring to get stunlocked as an adult teno by a carno because it can knock me over for some bizarre reason

[pure heath]

but teno can cancel the charge with a tail hit tho

[dusky surge]

carno should need a small group to deal with animals like teno or cera

[pure heath]

btu I agree it houldnt knock teno over

only stun

[dusky surge]

100%

i reckon carno should only knock over animals below 50% its own weight

so 900kg and below at full adult

[pure heath]

interesing to see your point of view, thank you for the discussion even tho I dont 100% agree ^^

[pure heath]

facts

[dusky surge]

i dont believe it should be ENTIRELY unable to hunt tenos

but I think the fight itself should either require a VERY skilled carno, or a duo or higher

[pure heath]

since utah is so unplayable rn I feel like a pack of lets say 3 carnos would need tenos and pachies to feed up

[dusky surge]

i find the teno v carno fight bland atm

[pure heath]

this I agree with since teno is slower

[dusky surge]

omni is only unplayable because carno, pachy and deino are so broken

[pure heath]

gotta keep teno viable

[dusky surge]

teno is unviable because of the fact that carno, pachy and deino are so broken too

these two animals are completely punished by their competition being NUTS

they're actually REALLY well balanced, I'd argue omni and teno are the two most well and fair balanced animals in the whole of U6

[pure heath]

that I dont agree with. pachy v teno is very hard on tenos side, deino is just op but carno v teno isnt too bad. make it so carno cant knock it over and so teno tial hit can cancel charge but not stun it maybe. no idea actually

[pure heath]

I agree

[dusky surge]

pachy v teno is MASSIVELY pachy sided wdym

its actually unfair how good pachy is against teno

its caused major damages to the teno playerbase

[pure heath]

what I meant, just word phrasing

[dusky surge]

ah, sorry

[pure heath]

english isnt my first language sorry ^^'

[dusky surge]

nah, i understand

i reread, i misunderstood

[pure heath]

many times Ive been teno pachies come and absolutely destroy me. Eveen 1 pachy vs 2 tenos fullgrown is difficult. They kill the children, break your legs and run away

[dusky surge]

yea, its so not fun

[pure heath]

yeah

[dusky surge]

i've had it happen to me

genuinely one of the worst experiences i've ever had playing this game

it really shows you how unfair pachy really is atm

[pure heath]

yeah

and the fact that a pachy can hid ein a bush, ambush 2 maybe even 3 carnos, break legs then kill them is insane

a pachy should be able to defend itself against carnos but not fight them if you get me

break leg and run away. not kill 1-3 of them

[dusky surge]

yea, exactly, 100%

this is one of the reasons i'm so heavily advocating for their nerfs against animals over 2x its size

[pure heath]

I totally agree carno, deino and pachy are the problems rn. so many times Ive had a deino smaller than me (me carno) pick me up ON LAND, and then run 300 miles and drown me. Very annoying

with that imma thank you for the discussion and go make grilled cheese, cya! ^^

[vale tangle]

Deino needs to be more skill based than patient based, you shouldn't be rewarding for sitting on your butt for an hour then popping out of nowhere
I saw this guy make a really good deino feedback that will never be implemented but it would make him so much better and give his water sense ability an actual reason to exist

[dusky surge]

im not sure HOW you'd make deino "skill-based and not patience-based"

It's a gator. They're all about waiting for perfect opportunities to strike

[vale tangle]

I get that, but the problem is the victim has zero chance of knowing they are there meanwhile the deino does automatically

The feedback was making it so the camera is restricted to underwater and you must surface to see targets, but change deinos surface animation to hide more of his body and basically just show his head like an actual gator. Then make his water sense ability give the ability to basically sense is someone is near or at the water without exposing yourself but uses stamina/makes subtle noises

[dusky surge]

Oh yea that's 100% fair

I can get behind that

[vale tangle]

So now deino can't just 3rd person cam you without you at least having a chance of seeing him

I feel like that would make playing deino much more engaging and make lunges more rewarding because you played it right rather than just how it is now

[dusky surge]

deino would be way cooler if you could see their heads sticking out of the water

[vale tangle]

Agreed

[dusky surge]

yea no thats a great change for the animal

especially with an actual aquatic ecosystem with stuff like beipi

[vale tangle]

Sadly the change may never come depending if the devs actually read these channels which we don't really know if they do
But hey man that vertical lunge for deino, must have right there
Cause now we can grab pteras even easier

[dusky surge]

you could honestly add it for all aquatics

beipi dives to check underwater for deino, then floats on the surface

[vale tangle]

You could, honestly they should especially for deino whose hunting style relies on stealth, but rn it's like have lvl 100 stealth in skyrim, as long as your underwater you win. Requires no actual skill or timing or utilization of his abilities like water sense which as of now is useless
And beipi would have a reason to check underwater for deins instead of just bring able to check under and above water simultaneously

[dusky surge]

@late bobcat i completely disagree with nerfing the turn radius

the hitbox, sure, lengthening the transition time, 100%, but please dont nerf the turn radius

this is the only time the charge has ever been usable as a pursuit tool

[feral flume]

I mean wasn’t carno supposed to be an ambush predator anyways? I feel like a tiny turn radius takes a lot of the planning out of the ability. Plus it makes the thing wayyyy harder to dodge for Omni who got its mobility ruined and it’s signature ability all but nullified. I don’t think the charge was ever supposed to be to chase stuff down cause uh… it originally took lots of stam too. I don’t know. I like carno but the turn is a lot. It shouldn’t be as bad as it was before but it’s like actually quicker than it’s regular turn it feels like, and that makes no sense to me. Perhaps the charge should go back to being awful turn and they can just change the regular run to quicker, use that as a more sensible pursuit tool

[dusky surge]

what kind of ambush predator

A: Lives in open plains
B: Needs a loud and obvious running start before it can begin its primary "ambush" move
C: Can't even attack from a hiding place as an ambush predator effectively, because of the aforementioned need to get a running start

Gateway won't have these bush-covered plains, the plains will be open and free of these "hiding spots". Carno without the charge's more fluid turn radius struggled to attack the animals it was designed to hunt, as these smaller, more agile animals could easily get out of the way, ironically specialising it better in hunting the much larger tenonto with the charge

Awful turn literally made the charge an "idiot test". If you didn't notice it and didn't get out of the way, you were more than likely AFK or just not very good, it was never a useful tool, almost as garbage as hypsi spit or old dryo dodge

The fact that old charge took a lot of stam and ruined your turn completely invalidated any form of use this ability could have besides using it as a gross perversion of an "ambush" tool

Carno at its core is an animal that spots its prey in the open plains, then runs after it, using superior speed to constantly apply pressure and keep the chase going

[golden coral]

No. Where do people get this idea from? Nothing about carno was well designed for doing proper ambushes. If anything, carno was force to "ambush" because the only targets youd land charge on would be the afk or compelety unaware ones.

[dusky surge]

Exactly. It was only "ambush" because players looking at their monitor and pressing buttons on their keyboard simply could not be killed by it lol

So you go after players who literally aren't paying attention in the slightest

A deinosuchus is an example of an actively effective ambush hunter. The attack is quick and sudden, no charge up required, short range to attack the animal near your ambush spot, and has the tools required to finish off the animal post-ambush

[feral flume]

Now that’s just downright untrue. I used the charge just fine back before U6. With the non punishing stam and fantastic turn the charge is literally a win button. The charge never shoulda been easy to use. I was told carno was supposed to be an ambush guy so I was confused as to why it doesn’t have any typa ambush behavior so that makes sense now 😂. I think it’s way better for the carno to have just a little bit less leeway with it’s charge, and it will once they fix the hit box but I really don’t think that’s enough. I think the charge should take actual planning and have consequences when you’re using it a ton and being bad at it.

[golden coral]

If you just make the normal turn for pursuit then what would charge be for? Youd not use it vs your main targets then?

[feral flume]

Mm perhaps I misunderstood

I was under the impression you meant like

Chasing something for a long time with the charge

[dusky surge]

People have been perpetrating the "carno ambush" myth forever, not because it's true, but because the only way you could use that godawful ability was in a horribly butchered "ambush" where you ran at a random animal and hoped to GOD they don't move their mouse, use their headphones or change directions

[golden coral]

Theres that and theres having a useless charge. The prior one was pretty close to just being bad, except op in packs

[feral flume]

Nootttt true I used it for ages in fights. It worked better for ambush tho

[dusky surge]

Carno is literally one of the worst ambush predators in the game

By definition of what an ambush predator actually is

[feral flume]

Yeuh I understand that and that is why I was confused :)

[dusky surge]

Omni, deino even ptera and pachy are far superior at it

[golden coral]

Use the charge to run things down and knock em over to kill is the aim. You cant do that with a terrible turn on the charge.

[feral flume]

Bru you’re explaining something to me that I already said I understand 😊

[dusky surge]

They reduced the speed on the charge (wisely) to make it more in-line with the actual pursuit niche

[late bobcat]

? I don't(can't) change the isle's balancing, Whether or not to do so all depends on developers. Only devs can decides.
and I'm sure to carno need turning nerf "while" charging.
When update 5, Carno's charging which before getting over buffed was still very strong ability to other animals.
There is no reason to turn buff to carno charge

[feral flume]

I am SAYIng that carno doesn’t need a crazy quick turn to be viable nor does it need a free charge.

It needs a better tuen than it had but I really don’t think the charge should stay as is

You missed my point

Arguing the wrong thing

[golden coral]

No. It needed the charge turn being useful, carno was quite bad in prior patch even,bleed being what it was too and op omnis and all.

[feral flume]

I don’t CARE if carno is an ambush predator so much as I care that it isn’t so overbearing

I’m pretty sure we can agree carno is overpowered with its charge

[dusky surge]

The issue with the charge is

A: Horrid hitbox (confirmed to be fixed by Dondi himself)
B: Can knock down animals larger than 50% larger than its max size (it knocking down teno is horrid with all these turn buffs)
C: No startup cost (charge needs to cost like 5% stam upon pressing right click)
D: Far too easy to start up (carno should be in motion for a lot longer before charge becomes an option)

[dusky surge]

Undeniably

I disagree with reverting it to its prior iterations

[feral flume]

I didn’t say it should be reverted. Ever. I literally just said it shouldn’t be

I said it needs to be in between somewhere

[dusky surge]

Ehh

[golden coral]

The issue is carno hitbox, plus the cc, no startup cost, and maybe a few more steps for starting the charge. Would also be nice with lower damage on charge and maybe up the bite a bit instead.

[feral flume]

They’ve overturned it. Utah and teno arent bad, carno and pachy are just crazy

[dusky surge]

I actually really like the new turn radius. It'd be fine if the hitbox wasnt literally the size of a double decker bus

[dusky surge]

This is very true

[feral flume]

Do youuuuu play carno a lot by chance

[dusky surge]

No, I hate carno

It's not that fun to me

I prefer omni

[feral flume]

Have you fought carnos lately.

The biggest challenge I face is always the turn coupled with the hit box

[golden coral]

Accusing someone of being a main because they think the playable actually works properly now xD

[dusky surge]

Oh yea, and it sucks, but I never once thought it was the turn radius that made it unfun. It always felt horrid because i got hit by things i didnt get hit by

[feral flume]

I’m just asking questions so that I can make points that are valid to this guy’s experience

[golden coral]

As teno, yes. Still doable.

[feral flume]

Did you ever think maybe you’d be able to dodge it if the turn wasn’t bonkers?

[dusky surge]

Yes

It was the hitbox that made it feel horrid

[feral flume]

Okay so I think… now hear me out

[dusky surge]

(and the fact it can knock down tenos???? why)

in its current iteration, it has no right to be doing that

[feral flume]

Maybe it’s good to keep carno not overturned. Worst case scenario is that we get a carno that kinda struggles to land it’s charges (as it should charge is a very punishing ability)

[golden coral]

Its not the turn, its the hitbox first and foremost , its that simple really

[dusky surge]

It really is the hitbox

[feral flume]

Yeah no the hit box is the big issue but that’s already confirmed changed

[dusky surge]

God I hate it

[feral flume]

So I don’t feel like I need to enforce it?

[dusky surge]

But taking out the turn radius, despite not seeing it in action with an actually well designed hitbox, feels unfair

[feral flume]

I want to explain why I think the turn is also an issue mostly. I think it needs better than 5.5 but not quite so easy as 6 if you get me

[dusky surge]

Especially since carno as an animal actually is starting to feel like it should've from the start (I still refuse to play it till it gets the balance changes it needs to not be broken)

They nerfed the high speed gain to compensate

For the newer turn

[feral flume]

Didn’t do much though to balance it now did it

The turn was muchhhh more valuable than the speed

We never used it for the speed really

Cause it costed stam

I just feel like you’re underestimating the turn because you are focused on the hit box

Is all

[dusky surge]

Again, I never once felt it was the turn radius that made the new charge so strong

I've played against carnos

Its the whole "get hit when you didnt get hit" that hurts so bad

[feral flume]

When I was playing carno I certainly felt overpowered on account of the turn and hit box

[dusky surge]

in tandem, yes

[feral flume]

And when I played small shi the same thing but like

[dusky surge]

they feel very strong

i just really dont like the idea of a return to old form

[feral flume]

I just reallllyyyyy am concerned about the turn even if they fix the hit box.

[dusky surge]

im not a fan of the restrictive charge that doesn't allow you to pursue

[feral flume]

Again again keep in mind that no I don’t want it to go back.

And I want the charge to be useful

But I don’t want the charge to literally be quicker than regular run

Like turn wise

Doesn’t make sense and the charge is too quick for our roster

I think

[dusky surge]

that is somewhat caused to the universal weird turn nerf

carno got a turn nerf this update, same as omni, but not intentionally

its a bug

[feral flume]

Yeah so like what I’m saying is we haven’t heard anything about turns, whitch is why I am focused on the turns and not the hit box. Since it’s already gettin fixed for sure right

I don’t want to be dominated for two updates straight

[dusky surge]

right, but there's other things that can be touched upon besides the turn

its not only these two things that matter

[feral flume]

I think the turn makes the most sense though you know

Cause it’s.. again it’s faster than the run

Haha

[dusky surge]

I really have to disagree though, the "faster than run turn" is literally due to a glitch that also effects omni, and it's still really not that fast given it's... y'know, carno. And we risk returning to idiot test carno

[feral flume]

It’s bad is what I’m sayin. They need to fix the charge turn or they need to take another look at it’s regular run. If carnos charge is gonna be so much better than it’s run it needs to take more stam

I would prefer they just change the turn but

[dusky surge]

Stam consumption, knockdown/stun range, when you are allowed to startup the charge from starting the run, so on. These are other elements that could (and should) be addressed, rather than reverting an honestly interesting idea that allows carno to fulfil a niche it was always designed to fulfil

[feral flume]

Mm.. I just think it’s a pretty bad balance choice with the roster we have here and the state the other critters are in

To leave charge turn this good

I would like to restate that I don’t want it to suck again :)

[dusky surge]

It won't matter if the turn is this good if they fix the horrid hitbox and adjust its matchup against stuff like teno

The smalls can still easily outturn a charging carno, and teno shouldn't be knocked down by a charge in the first place

[feral flume]

The adults can’t though. They shouldn’t get knocked down but it still does a helluva lot of damage

[dusky surge]

IDK, the fact we don't even get to see the IDEA of a good turning charge in a single update where it functions as it should, without being blemished by a horrible hitbox doesn't sit right with me

[feral flume]

Hm

[dusky surge]

We have a good idea but never get to see it beyond a state where its overpowered and unfun due to factors besides that change

[feral flume]

I think that’s a good point but the updates have a history of taking a while to come out and I jussssst dunno if I am comfortable with a carno being overpowered for another update if you get me

I would rather it be good but have some growing to do than obliterate stuff again

If that makes sense :)

Cause carno can get away

[dusky surge]

we are getting a combat test

[feral flume]

Other stuff can’t

Oh that’s perfect then

Hm maybe it’ll be okay then

[dusky surge]

Dondi confirms he wants U6.5 to be prefaced by Stress Testers beating the hell out of each other while he watches and observes how the matchups perform

[feral flume]

High speeds and good turn is a pretty devastating combination when it puts you out of commission for 5 seconds haha

[dusky surge]

To avoid any new "pachy v teno" style situations

[feral flume]

That’s a good step

[dusky surge]

Because pachy v teno is an inexcusable matchup and the core reason as to why I have such a seething hate to Pachy's current balance state

I would confidently place pachy above both carno and stego in terms of "this animal is entirely broken"

It's actually sickening how strong it is, the only animal in the game with a matchup so one sided, it's basically unlosable unless you actively make stupid mistakes

[feral flume]

Alright. Well I think if they combat test it’ll be a lot better

Breaks my brain that they managed to make pachy the best predator haha

[dusky surge]

oh yea

pachy is like U5.5 omni but somehow even more obnoxious

god i despise it

i cant even properly express it in words

[feral flume]

Anyways I was gonna say if they test the combat I’ll feel better about carno having a good turn charge. I think it’s a lot more problematic for a carno to have a turn that is too good than it is to have a charge that is just barely not good enough

[feral flume]

At least Omni was fragile 😭

[dusky surge]

i mean, so is pachy, in theory

pachy is barely stronger than omni in terms of raw health

[feral flume]

Well. It was fragile in terms of gameplay too

[dusky surge]

its got 10/9ths of omni's health

[feral flume]

Not just health

[dusky surge]

not really, no

at least, U5.5 omni wasnt

[feral flume]

Yeuh it was more so than pachy is

[dusky surge]

pounce face, pounce ass, dont care

[feral flume]

By a Lot I feel

[dusky surge]

U5.5 omni could kill everything

it was so goddamn stupid

[feral flume]

It also had a glitched out pounce

Oh ya I’m not downplaying it’s absurdity

I’m saying it was less like fool proof than pachy is rn

[dusky surge]

but yea U6 pachy is sickening. Worst part is? It was like this BEFORE U6, people just didn't notice until it stopped having the limelight

Pachy got very menial buffs in reality in U6

[feral flume]

Like uhh pachy as more health, less weak spots, and a way more punishing ability if you get me

[dusky surge]

But with omni no longer being god, and pachy not getting nerfed to omni's level, it simply got realised as the true godkiller it is

[feral flume]

Hm. It was also about the turn because teno used to be able to dodge the rams and so could carno

Even wit the leg break it could

Damage buff to didn’t it

*too

More reliable bone break

Seems a fair bit better

But also cause other stuff got worse

I reckon

[golden coral]

We did it wasnt good and didnt work for chasing, which is the issue

[feral flume]

Omni would still be able to fight a pachy if it had a better turn

[dusky surge]

(i honestly dont think omni SHOULD be good at fighting pachy)

[feral flume]

Yeah that wasn’t overturned it was undertuned. I don’t want it back how it was I already said that

[dusky surge]

pachy should bully the actual hell out of omnis and other small tiers

[feral flume]

Nawr but it should have a chance especially in a pack

[dusky surge]

it should worry about carnos and whatnot

[feral flume]

So the original idea was

Pachy breaks the leg and goes

Yeah?

[dusky surge]

yep

[feral flume]

I think that if a pachy encounters 4 utahs it should still have to worry about em

Yeh?

[dusky surge]

i reckon it shouldnt break leg and run from omnis

it should break bodies, souls and lives and stand victorious over the bodies

[feral flume]

Nono thars not where I’m going

I wasn’t done

[dusky surge]

because pachy breaking and running from something smaller than it or around its size, it should be declaring WAR

[feral flume]

Here’s my lil idea I just dredged up. I think that the pachy stun should loose effectiveness the more it gets used on a target. Like the first stuns are long and you can get breaks, but if you do it like 8 times it’s shorter. So it doesn’t matter so much for something like a utah where you’re not gonna need 8 hits to kill it. But if you try to stunlock a teno it just won’t work.

[golden coral]

I know, I read up, sorry message sent when I got net back. Had to go watch turtle hatch and run down the beach, no net down there xD

[feral flume]

Gotcha 😂

[dusky surge]

IDK, I'm a HUGE disliker of "don't fight because I'll slowly punish you more and more for daring to do so"

It feels unfun to be punished for sticking in for the long game

ESPECIALLY aganst stuff like omnis, which rarely let uo

[feral flume]

Naw it just wouldn’t be a stunlock. Haha.

And again the omnis don’t take 8 hits to kill

[dusky surge]

I'd rather pachy simply CANNOT stun animals over 2x its size, but all fractures cause stuns, so it can fracture them (causing stuns), but it cant stun them ram by ram

[feral flume]

I think that the stun shouldn’t like disappear but it should definitely stop canceling attacks

the head but shouldn’t cancel a kick or a charge

You feel me

[dusky surge]

If an animal is less than 2x your size? Stun every time. If an animal is smaller than you? Knockdown every time

[feral flume]

But at the start of the fight maybe it should

Ooowh you’re not listening

Lemme say this again

[dusky surge]

i dont like diminishing returns. i like clearcut rules i can follow

[feral flume]

Okay so utahs don’t take 8 hits to kill. The hits counted are on individual targets for how your stun effect decreases. Like one carno gets stunned somethin like 8 times and the stun resistance goes up. But if you hit a utah more than like 5 times he’s definitely gonna be dead. The resistance isn’t gonna matter.

It just means that you don’t get busted by a couple pachies cause their stun is abusable

[dusky surge]

i also just like consistency

[feral flume]

Mm I get that

I just think the like punishing stun is awesome and I would like it to stay in some way

Just not.. for the whole fight

[golden coral]

I think the issue with timer is that it only delays, not actually fixes the stunlock issue

[feral flume]

Lmao

[dusky surge]

diminishing stun returns feel inconsistent and lack conveyance to the new player exprience. If you break a leg, and watch the animal get stunned from it, you now understand that "fractures cause stuns"

[dusky surge]

this too

as long as it still stuns to an extent, pachys can and will abuse it

[feral flume]

Well I think I said the head butt should be canceled by kicks and charges

It just doesn’t have a counter

Rn

[golden coral]

Isnt the issue that as soon as you get a legbreak, you cant get away, so the pachy can just work you over because all rams stun you so you cant retaliate?

[feral flume]

No, if you could hit with your claw or bite you’d still be able to get em

Used to be able to hit with the bite before the ram stunned you

Or the claw

I think they should also implement different fracture severities like they said they would

Doesn’t seem like they did

[golden coral]

So you see it more as a priority issue then?

[feral flume]

Yeah

Nothing has priority over the ram you know

That was my experience playing against them and as them

I was always in the middle of a well placed and timed hit that was canceled by the ram

Or headbutt whatever

if you let the ram hit you one to many times you should absolutely be at a disadvantage

But if you counter they’re punished real bad

You get me?

So they gotta be actually careful

[golden coral]

Yeah. I guess that could work, but youd still die to two of them as solo then most likely

[feral flume]

Nawr. Remember what I said about the decreasing stun time?

I think that would do pretty nicely

If they still take damage from the claw and bite when they ram it’s not an even trade for them

The stun is important so you can’t take it away, but making it less punishing the more you abuse it makes sense right?

[dusky surge]

decreasing stun time still sounds really inconsistent to me, and just punishes you for fighting over time, while not actually solving the issue

[feral flume]

Not if you’re actually playing well

It’s not like the stun gets deleted

Plus you probably shouldn’t be fighting the same EVERYTIME anyways.

[dusky surge]

i would rather just have stuns only work on fractures against significantly large animals

if you've broken all 3 bones and gotten all 3 stuns, you've already won

[feral flume]

Sorry I am not getting what you’re putting down here

[feral flume]

I’m saying that’s pretty unfair. Charge doesn’t have nearly enough cost to be that fantastic

The stun and breaks against big guys should be used as intended. Break and run if you don’t want to fight or can’t, and if you can it should take more skill.

[dusky surge]

you shouldn't be fighting animals literally over 3x your size so competently. That's where break and run comes in. Against stuff like omnis, feel free to obliterate

[feral flume]

It wouldn’t be like a forever decrease either just like a certain amount where you’ve got a effectiveness bottom.

[feral flume]

That’s.. exactly what I’m sayin?

You should be able to fight big stuff but it should be hard

[dusky surge]

its also what im saying, but without diminishing returns and confusing mechanics

[feral flume]

I think complex mechanics add depth

[dusky surge]

it's not a complex mechanic, it's a confusing mechanic

very different

[feral flume]

To each their own I guess?

Dunno what to tell ya. I don’t find it confusing

[dusky surge]

complex mechanics can still be learned and adapted to, confusing mechanics punish players without telling them why

[feral flume]

No? You can easily learn what your effectiveness is based on how many hits you landed

[dusky surge]

if i'm a player, and my attack does "x", i should be allowed to expect it to do "x" every time I use it, right?

if my attack stops doing "x" and starts doing something else, that becomes confusing

[feral flume]

No, locational damage exists too! You do damage different on every hit already

It always stuns

Never stops doing that

[dusky surge]

but it never stuns consistently

[feral flume]

Just shorter ya feel

[dusky surge]

stun length? who knows?

[feral flume]

It would at the beginning and at the end

You’re telling me you can’t learn to expect a specific decrease on a stun past 8 hits

[dusky surge]

i dont like the idea of decreasing returns. its not fun, its just punishing without good reason, and doesnt solve the problem of pachy bullying

pachy simply SHOULD NOT be stunning teno on every ram

or carno

[pure heath]

agreed

[hollow topaz]

If a deino is chasing you farther than a carno I suspect it’s hacking.

[slim dragon]

It's because of the curve on juvie stamina drain
Sub-adults deinos are very big, but have nearly infinite stam

[hollow topaz]

Can they actually run further than a carno though?

[slim dragon]

I'm not sure
Carno has very low stam so I guess it's possible

Not a subadult carno tho, it has a lot of stam as well

[hollow canyon]

that was some big exaggeration for sure - Carno traverses way more distance than Stego so that whole feedback is just bizarre

Stego has only 15 seconds of runtime on Carno while moving at half its speed

a young-ish croc can easily cover more land than Stego

[dusky surge]

@restive igloo the turn radius buff has been the best buff carno charge has ever gotten in terms of making it actually do what its supposed to do. The hitbox is far more problematic, you should not be getting hit by a carno that literally missed you

the turn radius allows carno to actually pursue prey and punish them for not playing clever and evading, and fulfils the niche of a plains predator much better. the old charge would only work if you pulled off a sorry excuse of an "ambush", where the other player literally was not paying attention to their surroundings

reducing the insane hitbox will give omniraptor a much fair chance of surviving it, rather than reducing the turn radius for no reason, even though the hitbox is quite literally bugged to hell and back

[pure heath]

I was sub stego and they were 2 subd einos. I mean they travaled further than carno stam (fullgrown) can run without break

[hollow canyon]

if you mean that they had a longer runtime - then yea that's very probable

they still wouldn't cover as much distance as an adult Carno though because they're slower and that's what your feedback implied

[distant torrent]

@short tree honestly I’d stay say having diets activating at 90% is criminally high. they should activate at least at 50% lol

[short tree]

you dont want to low

85% is the lowest i imagaine they would do, if the took that idea

[distant torrent]

I’d be fine with that and even keeping the need for 100% to activate if they either allowed diet stacking again or reduced the nutrient drain

[short tree]

I was also thinking. That the deinos motion detection should work like sonar, only in the direction your deinos head is facing to allow other deinos to sneak up on other who are less aware. i know that not how it work in real life for alligators but it a dinosaure alligator.

[distant torrent]

I thinks it’s fine as it is right now. you can easily sneak up on an unlucky sucker if they aren’t paying attention and ambush them. though I have noticed that the motion detection in water doesn’t always work and show up

[pure heath]

oh I meant running without break

[hollow canyon]

@arctic summit Already in the game

it doesn't quite work as you described

but if you lunge a Stego

(or another Deino for that matter)

[arctic summit]

right so its not in the game

[hollow canyon]

that's not going to be in the game

you have an attack that grabs onto things

and shakes them

[arctic summit]

and stuns you

[hollow canyon]

the rest of it isn't getting implemented because Deino isn't meant to be punching up

yea well, you take time to grab them and shake them, it's a longer animation than just biting

but deals additional damage

that attack is a finisher, it's not used for DPS

it's used as a nuke

[arctic summit]

i have never seen a solo deino kill a solo stego, only exception is defeatpete

something is wrong here

[hollow canyon]

I have

and better yet

[arctic summit]

Its not common

[hollow canyon]

I have killed solo Stegos before myself

[arctic summit]

cool

[hollow canyon]

yea it's not meant to be common

Stego is meant to be winning this fight

it's exactly as intended

[arctic summit]

which is stupid

[hollow canyon]

Deino is meant to be clapped which happens in most cases but a good one e.g. DefeatPete or GMV Gaming

[arctic summit]

id understand it if stego had natural predators, but i dont

[hollow canyon]

can pull it off seemingly quite commonly

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't right now, next update iirc is meant to introduce Rex and Trike so

yea GL to Stego then

[arctic summit]

only unofficials

[hollow canyon]

only unofficials

they're proper apexes and aren't meant for this phase of the game

since they're too gamebreaking rn

[arctic summit]

balancing apexes is a nightmare

[hollow canyon]

not really

[arctic summit]

lol

look at legacy, there ya go

[hollow canyon]

Rex in legacy is a w/e dino

it's only good at 1v1ing things

you can kill them easily by overwhelming them with numbers

[arctic summit]

okay cool but what about 2 rexes

[hollow canyon]

still killable

[arctic summit]

or 3? Rex can group too

[hollow canyon]

I've done it before

[arctic summit]

then again legacy is LMB simulator

[hollow canyon]

Rexes are overall much weaker than Giga

not to mention Spino

[arctic summit]

spino is broken

[hollow canyon]

they are only better in 1v1s

Spino isn't a survival animal so yea it's pretty broken

it destroys the entire roster aside from T.rex

which in turn claps it about as easily as Stego claps Deino

[arctic summit]

btw im not taking into account tail riding here, yeah rex is pretty meh if you just tail ride it

[hollow canyon]

nah, no tailriding needed

the most important part is the lack of collision

[arctic summit]

cant head check a rex

[hollow canyon]

you just run through its body

biting it and it can't do much about it when there's more than one person around

it's best bet is just standing up against some wall and then you just starve it

I've seen it done and I've done it myself they are killable

[arctic summit]

i never said they were unkillable

[hollow canyon]

the only problem is that there's just too many of them

they are probably too easily accessible

although tbh Giga dies to just about everything throughout most of its growth

[arctic summit]

in body down servers (90% of unofficials excluding chinese servers) rex is going to win everytime unless you are really freaking good at the game

[hollow canyon]

Sub Rex is honestly just better than adult Rex

[hollow canyon]

I don't care for body down servers, I barely ever played on them

it's an idiotic rule that indeed makes Rex much better than it has any right to be

[arctic summit]

Right.

[hollow canyon]

but if the community decides to implement it then what can you do? Clearly they want Rex to be stronger than it is or should be

we will see how it works out when it actually comes out in Evrima, the devs say that it and Trike will be strong

but they said the same thing about Stego before it was coming out

[arctic summit]

Can't wait for its 10 hours growth times

[hollow canyon]

and when it did it was a walking burger

but yea Deino won't be competing with Apexes proper

they already said that Spino will murder it in a fight

they also said that Stego would be winning the fight against it before Deino came out

it's just how Deino is designed - it is meant to delete things half its size and smaller

it's not meant to go up against animals its own size

[arctic summit]

Kind of silly considering how big deino is, but it plays how it plays and ill roll with it

[hollow canyon]

it's not because of the size of other things

[hollow canyon]

Also I just forgot that dragging Deino dragging a large target was an intended mechanic initially for its lunge. Deino was meant to do kind of what you describe but that caused severe issues and it wasn't implemented in the end.

It just doesn't work in a multiplayer environment as well as anyone would hope.

I believe the way they described it was a "tug-o-war that was a stamina fight" but yea that ended up getting cut from the game.

[blazing vault]

Is this a bug or is did they want Tenno to have to drink every 15 min?

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover adult carno is very small in the overall roster, its barely even a midtier, it should not be resisting more than 2 strikes from a stego

[hollow canyon]

well... TECHNICALLY 2-3 Carnos do survive 2 strikes from Stego, you need some 4-6 strikes from Stego to kill them all

so... s'all good

other than that I've got no idea how their numbers being higher should affect how quickly each one of them dies

[dusky surge]

yea, idk why 2-3 carnos was mentioned lol

[hollow canyon]

yea

[dusky surge]

i chose to ignore it out of confusion

[hollow canyon]

perhaps the point was that 2-3 Carnos should be capable of hunting a Stego in which case...

lol, no

[dusky surge]

pesky balance video moment

carno players thinking that stego should be food will never not baffle me

[obtuse ocean]

Off, why should 3 carnos be hunting stegos. They should say hello and goodbuy and find something else

[obtuse ocean]

I mean the rex is not a slaugher machine either, when i played on those servers i could kill 4 lazy allos laying around. But i couldt, even tho they deserved it. And its no problem finding a group of 4-5 dinos example allo. And if you where top of the food chain with that, thats rex on steroids.

[dusky surge]

rex was the 1v1 king, of course allo packs went after it

[obtuse ocean]

Yea agree, i did it aswell. It was a though fight, as it should

[hollow canyon]

there's no way Rex should ever struggle on the servers with body down. It's pretty much always able to nuke down one target and give up the body to simply walk away.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but your talking ambush ? Thats fair, but if your allo/dillo whatever and a rex manage to nuke you while you trying to attack it. Then a mistake was done

[hollow canyon]

@tired urchin Any mechanic with holding the leg of a dinosaur as some other dinosaur is really problematic in a multiplayer game. Initial intention for Deino vs large animals was completely different and meant to let them have a stamina fight with the lunged creatures but implementing that in a game with so many players is difficult due to desync and other issues.

[hollow canyon]

Nah, I mean even in a normal fight. Some mistakes will be done at some point simply because of how tanky a Rex is and a single one gets anything smaller than an Acro instantly killed(and even the chances of an Acro to survive that aren't very good).

[obtuse ocean]

yea, but thats just as utah dillo vs allo. One mistake and its gg, more or less

[hollow canyon]

I've never struggled with keeping my big animal alive on the no-alt turn servers in fights vs smalls.

Well maybe the first time I played on them I lost a Giga cause I didn't know how to approach fighting Utah packs without alt turn but that was in mid to late 2018 when Giga turned worse while trotting and I was new to the game.

body down rule simply always absurdly favoured big animals

hell I had fights where I soloed an adult T.rex as a Dilo/Utah and then they'd just snacrifice their juvie

and there we go - the fight is over

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, true. I only played one one server with those rules, and that was not allowed tho. Juvis didnt count. But it sorta goes for mid tiers aswell, one mistake from dillo or utah vs mid tier its gg

[hollow canyon]

honestly if the fight is low numbers vs an apex the chance of a mistake being made is relatively much lower. If you have 4-5 people running around one of them will mess up at some point.

Yea but in case of T.rex it's just one mistake from a mid tier too

as I said the smallest thing that can hope not to get bonebroken on the first bite by T.rex is Acro

[obtuse ocean]

But you could still challenge the body tho, witch means no food for mr rex if it happend

[hollow canyon]

and even in case of Acro it can more so hope and dream not to get bonebroken because numbers are bad

[hollow canyon]

oh-no, the Rex doesn't care about the food, it just got a get away from jail for free card and can walk away even if it was losing the fight.

Which it will

unless it's winning then it will just slaughter however many more people it can

[obtuse ocean]

true, but keeping a rex alive you need food lol. I killed more in a group of allos in 3 hours , then i did with my rex in 5 days

[hollow canyon]

not really, I've never had much trouble keeping any apex well fed in legacy

I very often starved them on purpose on body down servers

so as to be able to eat up bodies and be able to kill more people faster

[obtuse ocean]

It was easy to keep well fed at points yes, but that was more cus if stealing food.

[hollow canyon]

Idk I just overall never struggled with food after they implemented the AI

back before AI was there

yea it was a challenge

actually cancel that - initially when they implemented AI it wasn't that easy to stay well fed

but then they made some changes and it became very easy to keep your hunger meter up

[dusky surge]

legacy was simply so heavily favoured towards apex animals

[hollow canyon]

idk about that

Dondi implied they are going to be even stronger here

but mechanics-wise yea kind of although lack of collision worked against them

[dusky surge]

tbh, i think them being "even stronger" depends on what they're relative to

slapping a legacy rex in EVRIMA would more than likely give you a dead rex

so obviously it's going to be stronger on the basis that it needs more to survive in EVRIMA

[hollow canyon]

I'm pretty sure he meant relative to the rest of the roster, it really wouldn't make sense for him to mean anything else

[obtuse ocean]

Strong dont mean good, strong means people tend to avoid them. Surviving can be a whole diffrent story

[hollow canyon]

which is actually quite realistic

[dusky surge]

in the case of rex, and especially EVRIMA rex, strong means good

[hollow canyon]

they're supposed to be coming out in the foreseeable future

[dusky surge]

depending on how strong this thing truly is, it could potentially be instant, unavoidable death for stegos, based on what little info we have on it

[hollow canyon]

so we will see

[obtuse ocean]

My play time as rex was way lower then i had with utah/allo or dilo.

[hollow canyon]

I will just point out however that the devs don't always gauge what's strong and what's not correctly

[obtuse ocean]

Meeting other apexes did not take long time

[dusky surge]

i dont see what that has to do with anything

[hollow canyon]

e.g. Stego at its release

[dusky surge]

fair

release stego was doodoo

[hollow canyon]

absolute doodoo

despite the fact that the devs thought otherwise of it prior to the release

because strength isn't just about how much damage you can dish out and take

but also just how easily you can apply that damage

and how easily you can avoid taking the damage yourself

[dusky surge]

thats the thing though, with what we know about rex, it'll be very good at applying its damage, and its speed will make it a threat to be wary of

[obtuse ocean]

Apexes needs to be strong, if a pack of allos can easy take a rex down or with little effort. Well then what, the "normal" will be 2-3 rexes. Then you start needing huge pack of allos, and what happends to all the other herds then. You suddently need huge herds/packs all over

[dusky surge]

part of me does hope that the rex/stego interaction in unofficials points out the completely flawed approach of making stego and deino classified as "non-apexes" and making them so vulnerable to rex and spino respectively

because they cant actually DO anything about these predators besides stand their ground and fight

so they'd better at least be good at it

[hollow canyon]

Deino isn't going to be vulnerable to Spino

simply because it can just swim away

[dusky surge]

yea i honestly dont think thats going to work out the way people think

[hollow canyon]

I mean no... most people very much think just that

Spino will win vs Deino but Deino can just swim away

[dusky surge]

droughts, ponds and other isolated bodies of water will be extremely problematic for this one survival strategy

[hollow canyon]

that's pretty much what Punch implied

[obtuse ocean]

It guranetteed will be faster then spino, same with stego and rex. No way they gonna make something in thats a walking burger

[hollow canyon]

if you get yourself stuck in a pond

or another isolated body of water

well - good luck with that

[dusky surge]

its not guaranteed because stego's slower than rex

[hollow canyon]

but that's on you

[hollow canyon]

Stego IS slower than Rex

[dusky surge]

it just outright is slower

[obtuse ocean]

If it is, its gonna be fighting back. Hard

[slim dragon]

Saying deino can swim away from spino is expecting deino players will actually swim away instead of trying to fight

[hollow canyon]

I mean, yea it's expecting them to do the bare minimum to ensure their own survival

then again they seem to treat Stego tails as magnets

[slim dragon]

You expect too much from them

[hollow canyon]

at the same time I think that

there's a very high chance that a lot of people drop Deino by the time Spino comes out

[dusky surge]

rex has more health, more speed, probably similar DPS because bite instead of slow as hell lengthy tail swing, front facing attack, no 2x multiplier damage weakspot, so on, not to mention a headswing that can stun even a giga (so it can undoubtedly stun a stego) and a possible pin that works on a para (which likely is around the same weight range as stego)

yea not looking great

[obtuse ocean]

The grab is insanely good ability tho : P

[hollow canyon]

and in that case the number of people that just press three buttons and spam lmb will likely decrease on it

[hollow canyon]

it is but I think when there's more animals around including actual apexes then a lot of Deino players will leave it

[slim dragon]

Everyybody gangsta until stego gets a CCing uppercut

[hollow canyon]

and let people that actually know how to play it be the only ones that care to play it

[dusky surge]

it literally might need it

[tired urchin]

idk man, how will they make deino stronger when other apex are added?

bite force buff alone seem boring

[dusky surge]

personally i find "spino beat deino always" unimaginably dull

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, they will balance it. Stego was crap in legacy to , but darn was it easy to kill rexes who went after you. Only reasy tho was cus you could move and swing. Its not much changes you need to make it viable even tho all stats are against you.

[tired urchin]

in more detail, i think deino should be able to grab parts of larger animals and deathroll to break that part, like pachy. or slowly drag them but it uses stam

[hollow canyon]

they won't

[tired urchin]

they will need to, otherwise its weak

[hollow canyon]

the latter one won't happen, I already told you so

that was the initial intention but the devs had to drop it

[tired urchin]

bite force needs to be the same as rex either way

[slim dragon]

no

[dusky surge]

just... dont go after stegos and rexes

[hollow canyon]

no it doesn't

[dusky surge]

its like not even hard

[hollow canyon]

and it won't

[dusky surge]

its quite literally the easiest thing a deino can do

[slim dragon]

I don't think deino needs to have the ability to punch up at all

[tired urchin]

it makes the game way to unrealisc

[hollow canyon]

no it doesn't

[dusky surge]

how

[hollow canyon]

Rex's bite would've been far more damaging than that of Deino

[slim dragon]

And you say that after suggesting a deathroll for deino ?

[tired urchin]

nope

[hollow canyon]

simply because of how their teeth are structured

[tired urchin]

deino had at least the same bite force as deino

rex*

[dusky surge]

get ready for them to bring up the statistics they found on google

[tired urchin]

yea, but grip is what matters

[hollow canyon]

it's not

[obtuse ocean]

i was at a museum the othe day, they had a rex skull hanging in the ceiling . Those teeth whould have ripped everything up lol

[slim dragon]

Grip is what matters for grabbing. Not for damaging

[hollow canyon]

that's not what determines how damaging a bite is

[dusky surge]

deino should be second best bite force at best, second to rex. doesn't need to be as strong, nor stronger than a rex

[tired urchin]

ik

[slim dragon]

Sharks have a very weak biteforce, while crocs have an insanely high biteforce. Yet a shark bite is much more lethal than a croc bite.

[hollow canyon]

Rex has a vastly more damaging teeth

they are of different length and they are very thick and serrated

those aren't even teeth for grabbing, they are literally for pulverizing whatever you bite

[tired urchin]

i mean, in a 1v1, if a deino got a hold on the rexes leg, or head, all it has to do is get the rex to fall over and teh rex would be very injurd if not ded from a fall

or death roll and snap bones

[hollow canyon]

I do think that irl Deino would be the favourite but this idea of grabbing the leg of something and pulling it is impossible to implement in the game

it's not going to work in a multiplayer game

[slim dragon]

Irl a rex wouldn't die from falling over
And you probably understand this would be terrible for a videogame

[dusky surge]

sounds amazingly fun for nothing to be able to kill a deino because it can grab everything on the roster

[hollow canyon]

with this many players

[slim dragon]

Also I highly doubt that irl deino was able to deathroll at all

[dusky surge]

probably not

[tired urchin]

idk man, a 10 tonn theropod falling over would get badly hurt

bons broken atleast

[slim dragon]

Being a 10tons theropod impies you have sturdy bones

[hollow canyon]

yea it would get badly hurt but again - they can't implement that

if you think the desync is bad now

[tired urchin]

rex is fat

[hollow canyon]

then you've seen nothing yet

[dusky surge]

and?

what exactly does "rex is fat" have to do with anything

[hollow canyon]

they had to drop the dragging mechanic on Deino

[slim dragon]

I highly doubt a terrestrial animal that gets its bones broken from falling over would survive more than a few months in nature
And rex existed for thousands of years

[tired urchin]

it would get badly hurt from a jank to the ground

[dusky surge]

rex being fat means a deino should have literally no place messing with it lol, not only is it far too heavy and dense to properly damage, its BUOYANT lol

[tired urchin]

i mean like a jerk to the groun

[dusky surge]

ah yes

[tired urchin]

not a soft fall

[hollow canyon]

not every Rex was quite that fat and they were rather steady creatures, it wasn't that easy to make them fall over

[slim dragon]

And deino's supposed to be able to do that to a rex ?

[dusky surge]

so what, we have deinos using the land rather than the water?

[tired urchin]

gripping its heasd or ankle

anyeay

[slim dragon]

mfw breaking the laws of physics is realistic

[dusky surge]

sorry, exactly how is it meant to do that

[hollow canyon]

As I said I'd probably favour Deino irl but A/ this is assuming we're talking about the largest possible Deino
B/ only because the Rex could be dragged to the ground

[obtuse ocean]

We are talking in game balance, if you wanted that for deino vs rex. You would need to nerf deino alot, in speed/ability actually needing to be good vs larger things etc.

[dusky surge]

what angle is a 8 ton gator meant to get it to grab the ankle of a rex and then YANK it with suck force that it tumbles to the floor?

[tired urchin]

out of ten, what is the chance deino wins on land, i think 70 30 deinos way. what about u?

[hollow canyon]

If it isn't for that then Rex would win simply because it has far better endurance

[dusky surge]

because i cant see any way of it doing that without looking ABSURD

[hollow canyon]

probably around 0 in the game

[dusky surge]

you're joking

[slim dragon]

Irl I'd say 20%
In-game ? 0%